NationStates Jolt Archive

Can I join as the united states of america? If that is open of course..

Can I join as the united states of america? If that is open of course..
I'm afraid it's taken. You can try other countries, though. If you want a big one, what about Brazil? It offers good opportunities for developement. Or, if you want action, you could be a Balkan country (we're just starting the first Balkan War).

what nations are still open?

also If someone could give a very brief outline of whats happerning please

Somewhere in Bosnia, there is a 15-year old youth named Gavril Princip who will attempt to fire the fatal shot that slaughters millions of fine young European boys like cattle on the hoof ... and miss.

In a centuries-old castle in Vienna, there is a 47-year old nephew of the Hapsburg Emperor named Franz Ferdinand whose great life's work will be to strive against his many political enemies to transform a doddering medieval empire into a modern multinational state, with universal sufferage and devolved regional sovereignty for each of its many nationalities ... after Princip's bullet misses him.

Beside him is his 42-year old wife, Sophie Chotek von Chotkova, who will also be spared one of Gavril Princip's bullets ... and become one of the most beloved Hapsburg Empresses in history.

Not far away, there is a 21-year old vagabond named Adolph Hitler who sleeps in homeless shelters and struggles to make a go of being an artist. He will never be an artist ... or, for that matter, much of anything else.

Sorry, I'm revelling at the power I enjoy sitting at the very centre of gravity of modern history. A nudge here, a shove there, and everything is different.

No Great War, no Nazis, no Russian Revolution, no cordon sanitaire, and a modern Austrian state to face the modern Turkish state Kamal Ataturk will create a few hundred miles to the south, maybe not in peace, but maybe not in war...

Everything you know is wrong.

without the first world war there would be no modern turkey there would just be the ottoman empire

Oh, Ok then I will take Brazil

Originally Posted by Narodna Odbrana
Somewhere in Bosnia, there is a 15-year old youth named Gavril Princip who will attempt to fire the fatal shot that slaughters millions of fine young European boys like cattle on the hoof ... and miss.

In a centuries-old castle in Vienna, there is a 47-year old nephew of the Hapsburg Emperor named Franz Ferdinand whose great life's work will be to strive against his many political enemies to transform a doddering medieval empire into a modern multinational state, with universal sufferage and devolved regional sovereignty for each of its many nationalities ... after Princip's bullet misses him.

Beside him is his 42-year old wife, Sophie Chotek von Chotkova, who will also be spared one of Gavril Princip's bullets ... and become one of the most beloved Hapsburg Empresses in history.

Not far away, there is a 21-year old vagabond named Adolph Hitler who sleeps in homeless shelters and struggles to make a go of being an artist. He will never be an artist ... or, for that matter, much of anything else.

Sorry, I'm revelling at the power I enjoy sitting at the very centre of gravity of modern history. A nudge here, a shove there, and everything is different.

No Great War, no Nazis, no Russian Revolution, no cordon sanitaire, and a modern Austrian state to face the modern Turkish state Kamal Ataturk will create a few hundred miles to the south, maybe not in peace, but maybe not in war...

Everything you know is wrong.

Even though the archduke was not assasinated there are still many ways to start the Great War this is because the political climate is explosive -due to colonial compitition, Armaments Race (Especially in the naval field) and the existing string of alliances- and may detonate if a suitable spark is provided, Unless of course the situation is diffused.

yeah it was just an excuse to do it basicly......

what nations are still open?

also If someone could give a very brief outline of whats happerning please

There's still plenty of nations open including:

-South Africa
- Most of South America (besides Brazil)
- Siam
- Mexico
- Central American Countries
- Greece
- Bulgaria
- Persia
- Afganistan
- Belgium
- Luxembourg
- Holland
- Denmark
- New Zeland
- Australia

I'm sure there's more, but those are some major ones that no one has yet to claim.

the british army was very small at this time (however the indian army was very big..... and it was under british control (my great grandfather was in it))

I want to be belgium it is a very cool country (they invented mayonase, chips and large numbers of very cool weapons)

So am I in as Brazil?

Both in, welcome!

Pantycellen: Belgium it is. I bet your grandpa knows some interesting stories!
Abbassia:Brazil

Note: Siam is under pretty strong Japanese influence. I'm planning to increase it...

Both in, welcome!

Pantycellen: Belgium it is. I bet your grandpa knows some interesting stories!
Abbassia:Brazil

Note: Siam is under pretty strong Japanese influence. I'm planning to increase it...BTW, in 1910 Belgium had the sixth largest economy in the world. All based on trade, banking, and investment.

You want capital? These are the guys with the money.

Its 1914 now, correct?

I just posted something in the RP thread, just to let ya guys know. :)

Its 1914 now, correct?

I just posted something in the RP thread, just to let ya guys know. :)The Balkans are in a time warp; it's 1911-1912. But we'll catch up soon...

The Balkans are in a time warp; it's 1911-1912. But we'll catch up soon...

Perhaps we should introduce H.G. Well's Time Machine. ;)

i'm sure this is a stupid question, and i belive it has been answered here by someone, mabey even in the first post. anyway, we can make up ships and such right? as long as its within the tech timeline. because i don't see why it wouldn't be like that, witch is why i think its a stupid question.

i'm sure this is a stupid question, and i belive it has been answered here by someone, mabey even in the first post. anyway, we can make up ships and such right? as long as its within the tech timeline. because i don't see why it wouldn't be like that, witch is why i think its a stupid question.Try these links:

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/spanish_navy.htm
http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Hiszpania/Hiszpania.html

There's still plenty of nations open including:

-South Africa
- Most of South America (besides Brazil)
- Siam
- Mexico
- Central American Countries
- Greece
- Bulgaria
- Persia
- Afganistan
- Belgium
- Luxembourg
- Holland
- Denmark
- New Zeland
- Australia

I'm sure there's more, but those are some major ones that no one has yet to claim.

I'll take Greece.

Try these links:

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/spanish_navy.htm
http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Hiszpania/Hiszpania.html

what i mean is, i don't like the stats of curent ship types, i want to make my own types to fit my likeing better.

what i mean is, i don't like the stats of curent ship types, i want to make my own types to fit my likeing better.Yes, as you build new ships, you can retire the old ones and make the new ones fit your wishes.

Just no überships, please. Keep the designs realistic (most designs on NS aren't).

I'll take Greece.Then visit the Balkan Wars thread. We're just about to start.

I'm trying to get the Sublime Porte (Turkey) to agree to the annexation of Crete by Greece. I think odds are good that they'll be willing to trade land for peace.

ok, this is my idea of a battleship (class name is in Spanish to make it more rea)

Dominador class Battleship
Length: 580ft
Speed: 21 Knots
Crew: 950
Armament: 8-14in Guns
16-6in Guns
2-21in Torpedo Tubes

i would have more stats but i have no idea how heavy this would be, and i'm still not sure about Armor other than it will probably be less than a British Battleship

Groovy, although I'm uncertain if Greece would be willing to simply trade land for land... :rolleyes:

Anywho, I'm presently trying to read all related threads as quickly as possible as well as do the wiki-research for the factbook... I'm afraid I'm a little sketchy in regards to early 20th century history so unless you don't mind history not repeating a brief run down would help quite a bit - especially in regards to the political climate and military lineups so to speak...

Groovy, although I'm uncertain if Greece would be willing to simply trade land for land... :rolleyes:

Anywho, I'm presently trying to read all related threads as quickly as possible as well as do the wiki-research for the factbook... I'm afraid I'm a little sketchy in regards to early 20th century history so unless you don't mind history not repeating a brief run down would help quite a bit - especially in regards to the political climate and military lineups so to speak...Yeah, I'm not either. in RL my wife is Greek, so the alliance tickled her pink (well, olive).

I'm completely supportive of Greece's claims to Salonika/Thessaloniki, rural Thessaly, Southern Macedonia (which I actually consider northern Thessaly), the Dodecanese, and Cyprus (although the Brits hold that right now). Epirus is a problem because I want a strong Albanian state, and if I give Greece too much of the southern vilayets, I weaken Albania too much. But - other than Epirus - I support Greece 110%, and will defend you against anyone but Turkey, whom I'm also trying to befriend. If you and Turkey go to war, I'll stay neutral.

You'll notice that I have a BB and a CA (with a collier) anchored off Heraklion (in Crete). That's to make sure that Crete goes to you, as well as to reinforce your claim to the Dodecanese. There are also (and this is secret, so other players must pretend they don't know) another 2,000 men in Trieste (a Croation infantry battalion and a Slovene mountain rifle battalion) ready to ship to Crete or the Aegean isles to secure any territories that are rightfully yours.

The other 1,000 Bosnian mountain riflemen and the 5,000 carbines with 500,000 rounds of ammunition are going somewhere else... ;)

On history, there's a ton of stuff on the Balkan Wars on the web. Google "First Balkan War" "Second Balkan War", "Albania" "1912" "Italo-Turkish War" "Cretan Republic" "Macedonia" "King George of Greece" "King Constantine of Greece" and "Young Turks"; those hits should give you a lot to go on.

And I'll be there to help anyone in the Balkan Wars thread.

New Dracora, welcome, you're Greece.

One of the K.u.K.'s ideas is that colonialism will eventually fail, giving way to neocolonialism. This isn't prescience - it's necessity. In the future, the K.u.K. may have to exert control beyond its current borders. Like Franz Ferdinand, I don't want Serbia within my own borders - I want to reduce Serbia to a K.u.K. satellite/protectorate (along with Montenegro). Indeed, there would be almost no population outside my current borders that I could feasibly incorporate into the K.u.K. without difficulty.

ALERT: The following is simply observation, not intention!!! The German and Italian cantons of Switzerland.


Germany south of the River Main (meaning Bavaria, Baden, and Würtemburg)


Most of Italy.Again, this is not a wish list of future conquests - just a list of territories that could be integrated into the K.u.K. without excessive indigestion.

As you may notice, it's an ethnic list. South (Catholic) Germans and Italians would be the only nationalities whose additional presence within the K.u.K. would not destroy it. But notice who I didn't include! Serbia and Montenegro


Albania


Bulgaria


Roumania


Poland


The Ukraine


Anything in Africa or the Near EastAgain, any such incorporation would increase the ethnic tension within the K.u.K. past the breaking point.

So if the K.u.K. is to exert influence beyond its borders, it can not be through conquest. Rather, minor allies and satellite states or protectorates are the only vehicle for power extension.

In the game, we should not be afraid to declare Nation X a "client" or "puppet" of Nation Y. Otherwise, people will be building huge colonial empires at the very moment in history when such empires unravelled worldwide. Rather, neocolonialism must be recognised as a valid method of expanding control.

ooc. Hmmm, yes. I think I'll RP something more...clearly soon. Sooner than I planned. I first wanted to really let the Siamese population learn to live with a Japanese presence. When they accept us, I wanted to take over. But I'll change my plans :pJedi Mind Trick:Minor ... ally ... Minor ... ally ... Minor ... ally ...It's much more accurate, and you'd be getting more for your mileage. Besides, don't you think the Thai want Laos and Cambodia back... ;)They'd love too :DSo my Jedi Mind Trick is working?!? :D

OMG! It is!

*calls BBC, CNN and newspapers*

"NORODNA ODBRANA IS CAPABLE OF DOING THE JEDI MIND TRICK! OMFGZAAZZ!!!!1!!11!

Hehehe, I'll give some more plans later. Dinner time for me. :D

"Still, it is up to the front-line states. Spain has declined action, Italy is vacillating, and Germany is in a difficult position with the death of Kaiser Wilhelm,"

Spain didn't realy decline action, they just said that they can't fight enless they have more workers to help build there fleet. i should have added something about Spanish troops needing training, because they where some of the worst.

the post may have been a bit bad, i made it late at night and i havn't goten much sleep, witch might have something to do with it.

Bump for anyone interested.

You must remember that since Europe hasn't been involved in a true modern war yet, the doctrine of most commanders is that of their Fathers and Grandfathers decades ago (Massive Clustered Infantry Attacks with Calvary to break up enemy formations). So far, there is really no need to spend research funds on developing things such as an Armored Car, as Calvary is still considered supreme and Vehicles at this time are very unreliable under poor conditions.

Of course, I'm not saying that it's impossible to implore the possibilities of creating Armored Vehicles, it's just that they weren't really thought to be very effective at the time.I have to agree. The amount of techwanking going on is starting to bother me. I see people trying to build WW II military machines before 1920. While it sure will be fun to pwn the opposition with your tanks and biplanes, it's going to immensely aggravate those of us who are trying to be realistic.

The first use of aircraft in war was by Italy in 1911; they performed recon, dropped little round bombs (really more like hand grenades) and dumped propaganda leaflets on enemy villages. That's it. The rest of Europe seemed to have caught on after that, and by 1914 everyone had an aviation service - but not one of those planes had a gun of any kind on it. Not one.

It took another year for the first fighter aircraft to emerge, and another year after that before the combat air missions we would think of as normal started to be flown (fighter patrols, tactical bombing and strafing runs, photo-recon missions, early strategic bombing; interdiction came right at the end of the war).

The moral of the story: it took one European nation using aeroplanes in war to make the others see their value, and then it took a war before the "duh, gee, can we get rid of those annoying enemy aerial scouts" kind of thinking produce true aerial warfare.

So here is my take on it: Until you see someone else using scout planes in war, you should not be building any.


Until someone starts using scout planes against you, you should not be trying to develop any way of shooting them down (like synchronised guns).


Once others start doing something, you can copy it.I'm content to say that sometime before 1920, we'll all start building air services. But - for the sake of realism - the k.u.k. military will not acquire aeroplanes until we see them used in war. And - for the sake of survival - we will ignore any enemy who tries to use aeroplanes outside the bounds of the aforementioned schedule.

Now onto tanks and armoured cars. Lachenburg has hit the nail on the head: why would anyone build such contraptions until they have a need? None of you (well, with three exceptions) know that trench warfare will be a nightmare (or even that the next war will revolve around it). Every nation on Earth believes that massed infantry charges can break any foe, without exception (and that includes the ones who'd seen trench warfare firsthand). Consequently it is blatant techwanking to be building armoured cars and tanks in 1912-13.

Why wouldn't you build a tank? Well, let me turn that question around: why would you want your army to rely on a clunky contraption with a top speed of 5kph and a 50% breakdown rate per day?!? Having to wait for the tanks to catch up would slow your army down, and nobody would want to do that. Nobody.

Well, how about armoured cars? I have this to say about that: poor off-road performance. I agree that, in the absence of trench warfare, the armoured car would precede the tank. But horses are still a lot more mobile than any wheeled vehicle that's likely to get mired come the first rain.

Tanks and armoured cars were a response to a tactical problem, and - until that problem is evident, again, no one would want to waste money on such nonsense.

Only two nations knew that machine guns were lethal (Russia and Japan), and only one knew that aimed rifle fire could be almost as bad (Britain). To that, we can add Sweden in the present game, thanks to the Battle of Stockholm. For Russia and Japan, the answer was to utilize night attacks; for the Swedes, the answer (given their experience) would probably be to invest in lots and lots of artillery.

So if you want tanks, I would say: You have to wait until you're in a trench warfare situation and nothing else will get you out - and simple sieges of fortified towns don't count.


Alternately, you have to wait until you see someone else using tanks.


You have to wait for armoured cars


Until you have tanks.


Until someone else starts deploying them.


Until you get your cavalry badly chewed by enemy guns.That's how I'm going to do it, and I'll ignore anyone who doesn't follow suit.

You mentioned planes without guns. Most had a second man with a rifle or machinegun, does that count? I'm currently trying to get a machinegun synchronized with the propellor blades.

And what about the jet engine?

Ah, your wrong....Germany new that machine guns were lethal, and they supplied Spain with them to use against America in the Spanish American war....Which means America knows of the power of Machine guns

Hmm... what about hot air balloons? I recall they were known by 1900's or so, correct? If so, how long would it take to create and produce zeppelins? I might have China try making giant silk bags and fill them with hot air, then try making a proto-blimp powered by a steam engine. Would that be reasonable and workable?

Blimps aren't as advanced, agile, or manueverable as airplanes but they can carry somewhat heavier loads if I'm not mistaken.

never heard that, i did here that Germany gave Spain Mauser rifles, that where very afective against the American forces because the guns where better than any standered infintry rifle at the time

Hmm... what about hot air balloons? I recall they were known by 1900's or so, correct? If so, how long would it take to create and produce zeppelins? I might have China try making giant silk bags and fill them with hot air, then try making a proto-blimp powered by a steam engine. Would that be reasonable and workable?

Blimps aren't as advanced, agile, or manueverable as airplanes but they can carry somewhat heavier loads if I'm not mistaken.

Well, according to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeppelin#Early_Zeppelin_history , zepplins are indeed present since the world's first airline Deutsche Luftschiffahrts-AG (DELAG) were using LZ6 the first zepplen to be used for commercial passenger transport in 1909.

And at the time when planes were first used zepplins were just as fast as an airplane, its main weakness was its vulnrabillity to gunfire.

You mentioned planes without guns. Most had a second man with a rifle or machinegun, does that count? I'm currently trying to get a machinegun synchronized with the propellor blades.

And what about the jet engine?In 1915. The provision of a weapon to the spotter/observer was in fact the first step in the process. Another step taken was to mount a machine gun on the top wing above the arc of the propeller.

Even in 1914, people started taking some measures. Pistols and rifles were taken aloft, although used with little effect. Some airmen dropped bricks on other airmen. But this was all ad hoc.

The point is that no one systematically armed airmen or aircraft until they had to face other people spying on them from the air. Necessity is the mother of invention.

I'll address Coanda's "jet" separately.Ah, your wrong....Germany new that machine guns were lethal, and they supplied Spain with them to use against America in the Spanish American war....Which means America knows of the power of Machine guns.Everyone had machine guns - two per battalion was standard. But no one imagined that they would have the impact they had on massed infantry charges. In fact, while I can't find the quote, I believe it was a German general who called machine guns "noisy toys".

And as for America's experience in the Spanish-American War teaching them the lesson of the lethality of firepower: if you can show me where the American's got butchered in droves storming Spanish positions and came to realise that frontal assaults against prepared positions were suicide, I'd like to see them. For my part, I don't recall that being part of the history of America's war with Spain.Hmm... what about hot air balloons? I recall they were known by 1900's or so, correct? If so, how long would it take to create and produce zeppelins? I might have China try making giant silk bags and fill them with hot air, then try making a proto-blimp powered by a steam engine. Would that be reasonable and workable?

Blimps aren't as advanced, agile, or manueverable as airplanes but they can carry somewhat heavier loads if I'm not mistaken.Many navies built dirigibles before 1914 and used them for long-range patrol. To the best of my knowledge nobody armed them until they started arming planes.

Among the first early missions of combat aircraft (in 1915-16) was "balloon busting".

So my rule for dirigibles ("airships") would be that you can start building them as scouts (but no one built more than a dozen or so), and then start using them for something else when you start arming your other aircraft.never heard that, i did here that Germany gave Spain Mauser rifles, that where very afective against the American forces because the guns where better than any standered infintry rifle at the timeExcept for the Mannlicher-Steyr M1895, of course... ;)

Actually, I'm only half joking. Mannlicher's bolt was easier and quicker to work than Mauser's.

Yeah, I'm not either. in RL my wife is Greek, so the alliance tickled her pink (well, olive).

I'm completely supportive of Greece's claims to Salonika/Thessaloniki, rural Thessaly, Southern Macedonia (which I actually consider northern Thessaly), the Dodecanese, and Cyprus (although the Brits hold that right now). Epirus is a problem because I want a strong Albanian state, and if I give Greece too much of the southern vilayets, I weaken Albania too much. But - other than Epirus - I support Greece 110%, and will defend you against anyone but Turkey, whom I'm also trying to befriend. If you and Turkey go to war, I'll stay neutral.

You'll notice that I have a BB and a CA (with a collier) anchored off Heraklion (in Crete). That's to make sure that Crete goes to you, as well as to reinforce your claim to the Dodecanese. There are also (and this is secret, so other players must pretend they don't know) another 2,000 men in Trieste (a Croation infantry battalion and a Slovene mountain rifle battalion) ready to ship to Crete or the Aegean isles to secure any territories that are rightfully yours.

The other 1,000 Bosnian mountain riflemen and the 5,000 carbines with 500,000 rounds of ammunition are going somewhere else... ;)

On history, there's a ton of stuff on the Balkan Wars on the web. Google "First Balkan War" "Second Balkan War", "Albania" "1912" "Italo-Turkish War" "Cretan Republic" "Macedonia" "King George of Greece" "King Constantine of Greece" and "Young Turks"; those hits should give you a lot to go on.

And I'll be there to help anyone in the Balkan Wars thread.

Ok, I think I've got the gist of the situation now. From the current Balkans War thread I'll assume the year is around 1912... that way the naval orders put in by the greek PM at that time in regards to history will be complete - meaning I should have some more toys to play with. :p

Speaking of toys and weapons and such... I don't suppose you could point of any feasable sites of information in regards to the greek army at that time in regards to numbers, strength etc... all I've been able to come up with thus far is the main body of the army was around 100,000 and lead by the greek monarchs heir.

Also, I'll admit my knowledge of this time period is sketchy at best so any advice in regard to military tactics of the time etc would also be appreciated.

And while I'm at it... you can tell me the average airspeed velocity of a fully laden swallow as well - african, not europian and no, I don't how a five ounce swallow can carry a two pound coconut. :D

So my rule for dirigibles ("airships") would be that you can start building them as scouts (but no one built more than a dozen or so), and then start using them for something else when you start arming your other aircraft.Except for the Mannlicher-Steyr M1895, of course... ;)

Actually, I'm only half joking. Mannlicher's bolt was easier and quicker to work than Mauser's.

I thought the main use of airships were as artillery spotters - that's why it became important to shoot the buggers down.

Now onto tanks and armoured cars. Lachenburg has hit the nail on the head: why would anyone build such contraptions until they have a need? None of you (well, with three exceptions) know that trench warfare will be a nightmare (or even that the next war will revolve around it). Every nation on Earth believes that massed infantry charges can break any foe, without exception (and that includes the ones who'd seen trench warfare firsthand). Consequently it is blatant techwanking to be building armoured cars and tanks in 1912-13.

Why wouldn't you build a tank? Well, let me turn that question around: why would you want your army to rely on a clunky contraption with a top speed of 5kph and a 50% breakdown rate per day?!? Having to wait for the tanks to catch up would slow your army down, and nobody would want to do that. Nobody.

Well, how about armoured cars? I have this to say about that: poor off-road performance. I agree that, in the absence of trench warfare, the armoured car would precede the tank. But horses are still a lot more mobile than any wheeled vehicle that's likely to get mired come the first rain.

Tanks and armoured cars were a response to a tactical problem, and - until that problem is evident, again, no one would want to waste money on such nonsense.

Only two nations knew that machine guns were lethal (Russia and Japan), and only one knew that aimed rifle fire could be almost as bad (Britain). To that, we can add Sweden in the present game, thanks to the Battle of Stockholm. For Russia and Japan, the answer was to utilize night attacks; for the Swedes, the answer (given their experience) would probably be to invest in lots and lots of artillery.

So if you want tanks, I would say: You have to wait until you're in a trench warfare situation and nothing else will get you out - and simple sieges of fortified towns don't count.


Alternately, you have to wait until you see someone else using tanks.


You have to wait for armoured cars


Until you have tanks.


Until someone else starts deploying them.


Until you get your cavalry badly chewed by enemy guns.That's how I'm going to do it, and I'll ignore anyone who doesn't follow suit.Armoured cars do fill a role at this moment: as means of APCs and IFVs in urban combat. Outside the town it is true that they are restricted to roads if they are to maintain reasonable speed, but on the streets the worst danger would be roadblocks and rockets.

Second: The British used machine guns during the wars in Africa during the 1800's and I'm sure the word has spread somewhat.

Though I agree with the part about tanks being unrealistic, armoured cars are a different matter.

Formally, Coands's powerplant was a thermojet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermojet). Per Wikipedia:These engines are reasonably inefficient because of the comparatively poor power-to-weight ratios of piston engines when compared to gas turbines. In fact, when such engines have been constructed, the aircraft designers would have achieved better results had they simply mounted a propeller on the engine instead. Nevertheless, the concept actually works and has been demonstrated in a number of different aircraft.Secondo Campini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondo_Campini) picked up where Coanda left off in 1930, and his Campini Caproni CC.2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campini_Caproni_CC.2) used a very similar design. However, the airframe (which you can see in the Wikipedia picture) is very clearly derived from that of the racers of the 20's and 30's, and the piston engine Campini had was more powerful than anything available in 1910.

Truly effective jet engines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_engine) - like those built in Germany during WW II - required the gas turbine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_turbine). The patent for the gas turbine was issued in 1791 to England's John Barber. But - as always - the history of technology is never quite that simple:
The first gas turbine to successfully run self-sustaining was built in 1903 by Norwegian engineer Aegidius Elling. The first patents for jet propulsion were issued in 1917. Limitations in design and practical engineering and metallurgy prevented such engines reaching manufacture. The main problems were safety, reliability, weight and, especially, sustained operation.So now we see the heart of the problem facing would-be jet jocks: The Coanda design (a/k/a the thermojet), while feasible, is limited by the power of the piston engine used to generate the compressed airstream needed to produce ignition. Given that you could take the same piston engine and use it to power a prop job, it's debatable as to whether you'd get better performance employing that engine merely as a compressor:

None (of the theromjet designs) were entirely successful and the CC.2 ended up being slower than the same design with a traditional engine and propeller combination. Gas turbines could do better (as many people apparently realised - look at the reference above to the first patents being issued in 1917 - and those did not go to Coanda), but engineering and metallurgical tolerances required to build them were well beyond the capacity of nations of the era.

<I need to drop this off now and will continue and expand later>

I thought the main use of airships were as artillery spotters - that's why it became important to shoot the buggers down.Artillery spotters worked from so-called "barrage balloons", which were anchored in place. The use of balloons for spotting dates back to the War Between the (American) States. Every army had this capacity, but only planned to use it in sieges.

OOC:

Would anyone object if I had China try exploring blimps and hot air balloons? My newly erected textile mill factories can produce large quanities of silk cloth, and as I recall, silk is a pretty strong material yet lightweight. China could make huge silk bags and convert them into balloons or blimps.

Then try to begin a passenger service for the blimps, similiar to Germany. Run blimps from Shanghai, Peking, Tienstin, and Canton to some far flung Chinese cities not yet connected via railroad or road.

Would that be feasible?

Armoured cars do fill a role at this moment: as means of APCs and IFVs in urban combat. Outside the town it is true that they are restricted to roads if they are to maintain reasonable speed, but on the streets the worst danger would be roadblocks and rockets.

Second: The British used machine guns during the wars in Africa during the 1800's and I'm sure the word has spread somewhat.

Though I agree with the part about tanks being unrealistic, armoured cars are a different matter.

i didn't know many nations had Rocket weapons, afterall they where almost unused in WWII aside from Bazookas

and i think your thinking about chainguns or something like that, thats what the British used. they didn't use Machine Guns till they lost a bunch of people to Germany

i didn't know many nations had Rocket weapons, afterall they where almost unused in WWII aside from Bazookas

and i think your thinking about chainguns or something like that, thats what the British used. they didn't use Machine Guns till they lost a bunch of people to Germany

Probably Gatling Guns, I think.

Balloons were actually pretty old. Invented in the 18th century, and frst used in the Civil War. hey Sharina, you know China used Hot Air Balloons a long time ago? They were unmanned, some fellows hooked up some lanterns and they used it for signaling. Not that it is of much use today, but still...

OOC:

Would anyone object if I had China try exploring blimps and hot air balloons? My newly erected textile mill factories can produce large quanities of silk cloth, and as I recall, silk is a pretty strong material yet lightweight. China could make huge silk bags and convert them into balloons or blimps.

Then try to begin a passenger service for the blimps, similiar to Germany. Run blimps from Shanghai, Peking, Tienstin, and Canton to some far flung Chinese cities not yet connected via railroad or road.

Would that be feasible?I see no problem with it. Your military personnel studying in Vienna would already know about both the uses of barrage balloons for artillery observation and dirigibles for scouting (or weather observation) at sea, because we know about them and would have taught you their value.

BTW, our military experts recommend that you organize a mounted cavalry/constabulary to both serve as an auxiliary to your military and to maintain order in your western regions (akin to the RCMP or the old Texas Rangers). The Steyr 1912 is an ideal firearm for them, as is the 6.5 x 54 Mannlicher Schönauer carbine; the latter is just 2.5 kgs, and is perfect for use from the saddle or by mountaineers, while the former is one of the few automatics where the stripper clip inserts from the top [ideal for mounted use]).

Don't let anyone tell you that cavalry is obsolete. It isn't.

Probably Gatling Guns, I think.

Thats it! i keep forgeting what they are called

[I need to drop this off now and will continue and expand later]It would appear that the gas turbines needed to build practical jet engines, then, weren't available until the 1930's; even then, there were problems with the early designs:One problem with both of these early designs (i.e., Heinkel's and Whittle's), which are called centrifugal-flow engines, was that the compressor works by "throwing" (accelerating) air outward from the central intake to the outer periphery of the engine where the air is then compressed by a divergent duct setup—converting velocity into pressure. The advantage was that such compressor designs were well understood in centrifugal superchargers but this leads to a very large cross section for the engine at rotational speeds that were usable at the time. A disadvantage was that the air flow had to be "bent" to flow rearwards through the combustion section and to the turbine and tailpipe. With improvements to bearings, the shaft speed of the engine would increase and the diameter of the centrifugal compressor would reduce greatly. The shortness of this engine is an advantage. The strength of this type of compressor is an advantage over the later axial-flow compressors that are still liable to foreign object damage (FOD in aviation parlance).It was left to an Austrian, Anselm Franz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anselm_Franz) to solve this problem with the development of the axial-flow compressor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial-flow_compressor) in 1944.

So my call is that Coanda's invention, while it could very well be taken to production by 1920, would not produce an aeroplane markedly better than those otherwise available. Fuel consumption would probably be greater, torque would certainly be less, and overall performance comparable (although this is arguable). At least you wouldn't have to worry about synchronising machine guns...

This is one reason why I approve of Roumania's efforts. I don't see his thermojet as developing into an überweapon - rather, something like an alternative to propeller-driven aircraft.

But this brings me back to a theme (two of them, actually): History is littered with inventions that couldn't be exploited until someone somewhere invented something else, or until technology in other areas improved to the level where it became practical.


Necessity really is the mother of invention: while someone recognised in 1917 that a turbojet would be better than a thermojet (which proves, BTW, that people did notice Coanda's invention), it was not until propeller-driven aeroplanes reached the point where further gains could not be realised with them (due to the limitation that the radial velocity of the propeller could not exceed the speed of sound) that people turned to alternative powerplants. One of the things drove gas turbine development in the 30's was the very fact that you had to have them to overcome the limitations of thermojets (in fact, the early development of thermojets might have actually retarded the ultimate development of gas turbines!).

Armoured cars do fill a role at this moment: as means of APCs and IFVs in urban combat. Outside the town it is true that they are restricted to roads if they are to maintain reasonable speed, but on the streets the worst danger would be roadblocks and rockets.Uh ... no.

I will agree with you in one respect: in the absence of trench warfare, armoured cars would have evolved first.

But your justification for the armoured car is incredible. You want to take what into where?

I am led to ask two questions: What event has occurred that would lead you to think that such a machine would be needed? Every army in the world had urban warfare tactics; they involved infantry and artillery attacks. What has happened in the game to make you believe that these tactics won't work?


What makes you think that such vehicles would be an asset in urban warfare rather than a hindrance? Going house-to-house, you'll still need infantry, and it's not clear that the firepower such a vehicle would have to offer would be any better than what the infantry would normally bring along with them.But for your sake, I'll research armoured cars a bit.

Oh, and while anti-tank rockets are decades away, I don't need them to kill your armoured cars.

...they (the British) didn't use Machine Guns till they lost a bunch of people to GermanyYeah, they did. Everyone did. The Maxim gun was their entry (the Dual Monarchy's Schwarzloze is based on it).

It's just that nobody though they would be the killers they proved to be.

i know they had them...i guess i should think a little more before i post :(

but yeah, my point being that the British didn't think them practical(sp?)

Yeah, they did. Everyone did. The Maxim gun was their entry (the Dual Monarchy's Schwarzloze is based on it).

It's just that nobody though they would be the killers they proved to be.

I concur--

"The Maxim Machine-Gun was adopted by the British Army in 1889. The following year the Austrian, German, Italian, Swiss and Russian armies also purchased Maxim's gun. The gun was first used by Britain`s colonial forces in the Matabele war in 1893-94. In one engagement, fifty soldiers fought off 5,000 Matabele warriors with just four Maxim guns. "--Multiple sources.

On the matter of Tanks versus armoured Cars--I am no longer certain what year we are supposed to be in--however--

The Fact is this-- because of the tactic of the era Tanks came first.

Rapid mobile mechanized doctrine did not exist--at all.

No one is at this era in time interested in a "Raider" doctrine of Warfare, beyond a study in primitive ideologies and cowardice tactics which faulter under the defensive weight of trenches---until the TANK.

Trenches and Sand bags stop Armoured Cars--not the Tank.

"Little Willie"-The Brittish Mk.I Tank was 150 strong in 1916 and the first battle in 1916 for them to see action was the battle of Flers-Courcelette in Sep. --a total victory.

Now according to my Library on the matter of German and English armour the Germans responded by 1918 with their own tank--I can get into armament and what not as well as defects exposed in trials and on the battle filed for every tank produced from 1916 to 1990--Armoured Cars were totally useless for the warfare being waged.

The Germans created the modern concept of Rapid Armoured Warfare(WWII) --Armour in this time serves as Support, and Support and Support.

Rearward forces might use armoured cars and occupational forces might use Armoured Cars but out on the vast european battlefield--huh, go for it.

i could look this up, and i think i will but what nations where the B.A.R. made in and same for the Colt M1911

Uh ... no.

I will agree with you in one respect: in the absence of trench warfare, armoured cars would have evolved first.

But your justification for the armoured car is incredible. You want to take what into where?

I am led to ask two questions: What event has occurred that would lead you to think that such a machine would be needed? Every army in the world had urban warfare tactics; they involved infantry and artillery attacks. What has happened in the game to make you believe that these tactics won't work?


What makes you think that such vehicles would be an asset in urban warfare rather than a hindrance? Going house-to-house, you'll still need infantry, and it's not clear that the firepower such a vehicle would have to offer would be any better than what the infantry would normally bring along with them.But for your sake, I'll research armoured cars a bit.

Oh, and while anti-tank rockets are decades away, I don't need them to kill your armoured cars.
Since we're faced with the possibilty of a war with France, much of the German infantry and cavalry will be tied up in the west, we will have very little to take care of uprisings in Germany.
If you're about to attack a city which harbours rebels, you wouldn't use artillery as that would damage the town itself and leave little left once you've captured it.

It offers protection for infantry from snipers as it has an armoured hull to hide behind and the weaponry to lay down suppresive fire. Unless the infantry had the custom to bring large sheets of armour and carry them around to shield their comrades from fire, armoured cars fill a role.

Though specialised AT rockets are far in the future rockets exist and have existed for a long time even in Europe.

If you're about to attack a city which harbours rebels, you wouldn't use artillery as that would damage the town itself and leave little left once you've captured it.

OCC: That's what I did to Stockholm and it, by far, inflicted the most casualties upon my enemy and severly demoralized them. Yes, small sections of the city were indeed set ablaze and/or smashed by Artillery, but at this time no one really cared about collateral damage.

Furthermore, I must agian stress the point as to the fact that most military commanders still imployed Napoleonic tactics, nearly 100 years after they were developed. Thus, most commanders when attacking a town will imploy one of two strategies:

- Besiege and Bombard the city with Artillery until the defenders give up.

- Storm the city with mass waves of Infantry and kill all enemies within the gates.

It doesn't matter to most commanders how many men get butchered or houses get destroyed, so long as their army completes it's objective, they along with the High Command are happy.

Furthermore, since the German Imperial High-Command and it's Kaiser are very conservative induviduals (as goes for most European leaders in general), they will not want to go spending quite a considerable sum researching and producing technology that is not yet, in their opinion, needed on the field of battle.

So yes, small Armored Vehicles would be nice for Urban Combat. But until there is truly a need for them, just like their was a need to break the stalemate of trench warfare in 1916, Armored Vehicles, along with most other new technologies, will not be thought of very highly.

i could look this up, and i think i will but what nations where the B.A.R. made in and same for the Colt M1911

The good ol' United States of America. The BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle) was introduced in early 1918 to the US Army, but never saw service in the trenches of WWI with the 1st Expeditionary Force (the High Command was afriad the Germans might capture one and copy it). As for the Colt, I believe it's pretty obvious when that was produced.

OCC: That's what I did to Stockholm and it, by far, inflicted the most casualties upon my enemy and severly demoralized them. Yes, small sections of the city were indeed set ablaze and/or smashed by Artillery, but at this time no one really cared about collateral damage.

Furthermore, I must agian stress the point as to the fact that most military commanders still imployed Napoleonic tactics, nearly 100 years after they were developed. Thus, most commanders when attacking a town will imploy one of two strategies:

- Besiege and Bombard the city with Artillery until the defenders give up.

- Storm the city with mass waves of Infantry and kill all enemies within the gates.

It doesn't matter to most commanders how many men get butchered or houses get destroyed, so long as their army completes it's objective, they along with the High Command are happy.

Furthermore, since the German Imperial High-Command and it's Kaiser are very conservative induviduals (as goes for most European leaders in general), they will not want to go spending quite a considerable sum researching and producing technology that is not yet, in their opinion, needed on the field of battle.

So yes, small Armored Vehicles would be nice for Urban Combat. But until there is truly a need for them, just like their was a need to break the stalemate of trench warfare in 1916, Armored Vehicles, along with most other new technologies, will not be thought of very highly.
As far as I know your enemies in Stockholm were the Försvarsmakten and thus soldiers. Rebels on the other hand would generally not (unless lead by someone with military education and training) form up as rank-and-file soldiers.

No one is at this era in time interested in a "Raider" doctrine of Warfare, beyond a study in primitive ideologies and cowardice tactics which faulter under the defensive weight of trenches---until the TANK.I'm a great admirer of Leon Trotsky (not the ideologue or politician but the soldier), and I intend to emulate his cavalry tactics. In that context, armoured cars would make perfect sense.

Of the early tanks, I find the FT-17 to be the best, and if forced to build such vehicles, that will be my model. But I'm going to avoid tanks as long as I can (until the 20's, if possible).It (the armoured car) offers protection for infantry from snipers as it has an armoured hull to hide behind and the weaponry to lay down suppresive fire. Unless the infantry had the custom to bring large sheets of armour and carry them around to shield their comrades from fire, armoured cars fill a role.I have a number of answers to that: Barricades


Rooftops


SewersAnd that's just for starters.

The use of AFV's for urban warfare is an anachronism, and if you try it, you'll learn why: while such tactics may be de riguer in the closing years of the 20th Century, the vehicles of the early 20th Century simply weren't survivable in urban situations.

IOW, the standard urban warfare tactics of 1990-2010 will not work in 1910-1940.So yes, small Armored Vehicles would be nice for Urban Combat. But until there is truly a need for them, just like their was a need to break the stalemate of trench warfare in 1916, Armored Vehicles, along with most other new technologies, will not be thought of very highly.Yeah, like he said! ;)As far as I know your enemies in Stockholm were the Försvarsmakten and thus soldiers. Rebels on the other hand would generally not (unless lead by someone with military education and training) form up as rank-and-file soldiers.Don't underestimate the capabilities of partisans. Read about the Paris Commune (1870).

The good ol' United States of America. The BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle) was introduced in early 1918 to the US Army, but never saw service in the trenches of WWI with the 1st Expeditionary Force (the High Command was afriad the Germans might capture one and copy it). As for the Colt, I believe it's pretty obvious when that was produced.Based on an earlier French weapon, the Chauchat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauchat). But don't tell Defuniak, or he'll be equipping his whole army with assault rifles...

I have a number of answers to that: Barricades


Rooftops


SewersAnd that's just for starters.

The use of AFV's for urban warfare is an anachronism, and if you try it, you'll learn why: while such tactics may be de riguer in the closing years of the 20th Century, the vehicles of the early 20th Century simply weren't survivable in urban situations.

IOW, the standard urban warfare tactics of 1990-2010 will not work in 1910-1940.

Don't underestimate the capabilities of partisans. Read about the Paris Commune (1870).
1. Armoured cars can lay down suppresive fire while infantry clear the streets of barricades.

2. Suppresive fire while infantry enters the building to take the marksmen out.

3. Got me.

The Paris Commune as in citizens in Paris revolt with the help of the National Guard of Paris? I would consider that to being lead by someone with military training.

1. Armoured cars can lay down suppresive fire while infantry clear the streets of barricades.

2. Suppresive fire while infantry enters the building to take the marksmen out.

3. Got me.

The Paris Commune as in citizens in Paris revolt with the help of the National Guard of Paris? I would consider that to being lead by someone with military training.

But what you are applying here is the power of the machine gun as a suppresive instrument, and previous posts tell me that not many people would use a not-very-much-used inaccurate wastes-alot-of-bullets hard-to-handle jamming noisy heavy weapon that requires more than one person to operate ( I'm not sure about this last point as I'm not sure about the current up to date-machine gun) but when people sees how much power it can punch along with improving its other features. they will try to fix its mobility by two ways:

A- mounting it on a vehicle.
How I think people thought (over a long period of time) :you can't put on a horse or a carraige (needs alot of horses), you could tow it like a cannon but it's not THAT big! but wait! how about putting the machine-gun on one of those new vehicles with the internal combustion engine? yes it can work! we'll call it the "mobile machine-gun" hmm, bullets can kill the driver and gunner easily making it useless let's add some armor to protect them. At last my greatest creation : "The Armored Car!" . Of course then: No fair! their using grenades and some kind of anti-armor artilliry! let's add more armor! and while we're at it let's add some track so it may move better in that rough terrain. Hey why not replace that peashoter machine-gun with small artillary? or better yet use them both! Wow! that is some secret weapon we've made let's ship it to our troops under the name of "tanks" so no one suspects it (Chuckle), Oh great! now there shooting rocket proppelled grenades) and so on and so forth...

...You know after you review it its like the theory evolution: adaptation and new features...

...Then there is B-making it smaller so a single soldier can carry it of course it won't be just as powerful but still powerful so we'll call it a SUB machine-gun and then it isn't as accurate as those rifles or carbines, but its rate of fire is better. Why not get the best of both and get a rifle that is good for assult and just as accurate (the assult rifle).

Of course all of this is effected by Prototype development, financial and industrial backing, trial and error, protection from spies, smart guys with lab coats, chance discoveries, previous inventions must be invented first, our technician has a one tracked mind, our smart guys defected to the other guys side and took everything with them, some guy with a plane blows up my labs, a smart german guy writes a letter to our president telling him to hurry up before the other guy gets their first...etc...etc

Note: I apologise for rambling on in some areas

Greek factbook is up: YAY! (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9420863#post9420863)

Kudos to Narodna Odbrana for finding most, if not all of the information. :p

Aerospace.org - Jet Engine Development (http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0144.shtml)
Though Campini's engine was an interesting innovation, it was not as efficient or effective as the turbojet. The thermojet was most efficient at sea level where the air density and pressure is highest, but generates increasingly less power as altitude increases. In addition, the thermojet was far larger and heavier than a turbojet, and the piston engine needed to power the compressors was quite complicated. Combined with the low efficiency of the burner stage, the maximum power output of the engine was quite low. For these reasons, the turbojet and the related turbofan have become the dominant forms of aviation propulsion while the thermojet faded into obscurity.OK, so there's one difference: greater speed at low altitude, poorer performance at high altitude, probably worse in a climb (high stall speed?) and better in a dive (which suggests a "yo-yo" tactic, like F-104 pilots use - dive in out of the sun...). In fact, I'd be concerned about stall speeds in general with a thermojet.

ECONOMIC Expert.com - Jet Engines (http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Turbojet.htm)
The advantage of the jet engine is its efficiency at high speeds (especially supersonic speeds) and high altitudes. On slower aircraft, a propeller (powered by a gas turbine), commonly known as a Turboprop, is more common. Very small aircraft generally use conventional piston engines to drive a propeller.OK, so maybe the loss function isn't that bad for high altitude (but stalls would still be a b_tch).

Alxs Plane Gallery (http://www.studenten.net/customasp/axl/profile.asp?cat_id=10&ple_id=362)
The CC-2, as the type was designated, was an elegant monoplane with two seats wholly constructed of duralumin metal with a low wing of elliptical shape. It was 40 ft (12.1 meters) long with a wingspan of 48 ft (14.6 meters) and a wing area of 388 sq ft (36 sq meters). It had a conventional tail dragger landing gear, a top speed of 224 mph (360 km/h) and could reach a ceiling of 13,000 ft (4000 meters).It had an afterburner, BTW.

Here's a whole page devoted to the CC.2 (http://www.museoscienza.org/english/aereo/caproni.html)

Here's a page devoted to Coanda's 1910 design. (http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/Coanda/CoandaAeroplane.htm)
Here's another. (http://www.allstar.fiu.edu/aero/coanda.htm#Coanda-1910)
And another, with schematics. (http://www.crossandcockade.com/WNW/coanda.htm)

Comparing the two, something jumps right out at you: Coanda achieve 220kg of thrust with a 50hp engine, while Campini only managed to get 700kg of thrust out of a 900hp engine! Either the Italian design was really very poor (unlikely) or there's a scaling issue (likely), which suggests that a smaller thermojet might be more efficient than a similarly (horse-)powered propellor driven design. So there's one possibility...

Here's a chronology of jet engine development. (http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Jets45-List.htm)

smaller[/I] thermojet might be more efficient than a similarly (horse-)powered propellor driven design.
I remember reading somewhere something along these lines. The very smallest planes perform best with thermojet engines (I could be wrong, thou). The problem with the pistons - in general, not necesarily for the planes - is the shocks they produce. The smaller the piston, the smaller the shocks.

Thank you for the links. I'll have to look them over.

I remember reading somewhere something along these lines. The very smallest planes perform best with thermojet engines (I could be wrong, thou). The problem with the pistons - in general, not necesarily for the planes - is the shocks they produce. The smaller the piston, the smaller the shocks.

Thank you for the links. I'll have to look them over.Campini attempted to solve that problem with a third propeller inside his compression chamber, if I'm not mistaken. Of course, there are other indications I've found that there was a fundamental problem with the Italian design, so that could alss be a factor.

It's good that we're coming up with something interesting to do with the technology.

Come think of it...

<click><pause><click-click>
<thinking>
<light bulb!!!>

I shouldn't be helping you or anything (given that you're going to use this stuff against me), but there is another way to overcome the problem... Something Campini didn't think of (or, if he did, didn't implement). ;)

<pause>

OK, I'll make you a deal. Sometime in the next 5-10 years, let me find out about your efforts and maybe get my hands on an engine (by espionage or a crash or whatever). My people will look at it and figure out how to overcome the efficiency problem. Then I'll arrange for you to get it back (through espionage or a crash or whatever). But this should happen c.1920-25 or so (before 1930). How's that?

Normally, I wouldn't do this, but the workaround is very cool... :cool:

<PAMPA>

I shouldn't be helping you or anything (given that you're going to use this stuff against me).

Who, me? <whistles, hands in pockets> ;)

OK, I'll make you a deal. Sometime in the next 5-10 years, let me find out about your efforts and maybe get my hands on an engine (by espionage or a crash or whatever). My people will look at it and figure out how to overcome the efficiency problem. Then I'll arrange for you to get it back (through espionage or a crash or whatever). But this should happen c.1920-25 or so (before 1930). How's that?

Maybe I'll have Coanda attempt to cross the Carpathians. He will succed, but he will crash on the Transilvanian side, where your men will be able to have a look at his plane.

OOC:

I just got back from the hospital earlier today, and the operation went well. I'm able to walk around and eat, as I never got any dizziness or any side effects except for a slight numbness in my tongue. I'm just laying in bed, trying to recover and drinking a lot of water. I'm doing well, regardless, as I'm able to check e-mails and stuff late at night. I think I will be getting better and stronger everyday. I'm glad the surgery is over, and most of my nervousness is gone. Its a huge relief that its over, without any hitches.

I think I'll be able to check up here over the next few days. I might be able to post short RP posts, just not my usual detailed ones.

Could someone kindly fill me with what has been going on today and yesterday? Please freeze any actions aganist or with China until I'm able to respond accordingly. Much thanks. :)

Could someone kindly fill me with what has been going on today and yesterday? Please freeze any actions aganist or with China until I'm able to respond accordingly. Much thanks. :)Sure: Germany has created an internal security security (surpise, surprise - the descent into Paleo-Nazism continues).


Japan has announced yet another armaments program (more ships, including many subs, and the formation of an Imperial Guards' corps).


Sweden is toying with inventing a light machine-gun/assault rifle (and wants Japan's help!).


France has changed targets again: now it's Portugal (someone's itching to go to war...).


The Dual Monarchy has announced military exercises in Bosnia and Hercegovina. In a test mobilisation, it has called up half its army.


Tensions continue to mount in the Balkans. War appears inevitable between the Porte and Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, and Romania.

OOC:

I just got back from the hospital earlier today, and the operation went well. I'm able to walk around and eat, as I never got any dizziness or any side effects except for a slight numbness in my tongue. I'm just laying in bed, trying to recover and drinking a lot of water. I'm doing well, regardless, as I'm able to check e-mails and stuff late at night. I think I will be getting better and stronger everyday. I'm glad the surgery is over, and most of my nervousness is gone. Its a huge relief that its over, without any hitches.

I think I'll be able to check up here over the next few days. I might be able to post short RP posts, just not my usual detailed ones.

Could someone kindly fill me with what has been going on today and yesterday? Please freeze any actions aganist or with China until I'm able to respond accordingly. Much thanks. :)

ooc. Take all the time you need. I propose to halt everything in Indochina untill you can post as normal again. It's great to hear that everything went well. Keep it up!

someone's itching to go to war...

Aren't we all :p

someone's itching to go to war...Aren't we all :pActually, I'm not. But events are taking on a life of their own in the Balkans. :(

ok, in the Greek factbook it has 2 Pre-Dreadnaught battleships listed, but they only arived in Greek hands after the USA gave them to Greece in 1914 IRL, so i just want to USA to say wether he wants it that way or not

It shouldn't be hard for Greece to find someone who will sell him obsolete battleships...

ok, in the Greek factbook it has 2 Pre-Dreadnaught battleships listed, but they only arived in Greek hands after the USA gave them to Greece in 1914 IRL, so i just want to USA to say wether he wants it that way or not

You actually read it?

only the things having to do with the Navy

It shouldn't be hard for Greece to find someone who will sell him obsolete battleships...

like me :D though i only have one obsolete battleship

Im back from holiday guys!!!!

Ive caught up on the OOC thread, just the IC thread to go and then Britain is back in the business until the end :D

Im back from holiday guys!!!!

Ive caught up on the OOC thread, just the IC thread to go and then Britain is back in the business until the end :D
Much can happen before this rpg is over, it ias 1914 after all. I mean, this is not the end. It's not even the beginning of the end, it's somewhere in between.

Yeah I know. I meant I have no more serious commitments until Christmas :D

I know I'm new and all, but I'd like to play as the Ottoman Empire. I noticed it wasn't chosen yet, so I'd take it while it remains indepe-...er, free.

OOC:

I feel I've recovered enough to try to post a little RP. I've stopped taking the pain mediciations, so the droswiness and woozyness should go away, allowing me to concentrate on stuff much better.

So, let me get this right...

The world is on verge of war because of France's actions? Germany has a new fuhrer? The British player just came back?

Hmm... I think I could post up a short post of China's response to the rising tensions in Europe, and mobilizing its army to counter any invasion and such.

I know I'm new and all, but I'd like to play as the Ottoman Empire. I noticed it wasn't chosen yet, so I'd take it while it remains indepe-...er, free.We actually have an Ottoman player, although he has been extremely inactive. If you want to kick him and see if he's still interested in playing, he's The Andromedan. TG him, by all means.

Or you could take Portugal, which is currently facing a threat from France. Denmark is also free.

If you want to be Japan's minor ally in the Pacific, you could talk to Warta Endor about that.

Another option would be Mexico, so far from God and so close to the United States... ;)

Whomever the Ottoman player ends up being, I need a TG and I need one now!

Hmm... I think I could post up a short post of China's response to the rising tensions in Europe, and mobilizing its army to counter any invasion and such.Hi, ally! I was going to mention some assistance you gave me. A certain book that is now standard reading in all of our academies.

Although we still do recommend that your academies employ Von Clausewitz, because we think his writings are still valuable, too... ;)

Hi, ally! I was going to mention some assistance you gave me. A certain book that is now standard reading in all of our academies.

Although we still do recommend that your academies employ Von Clausewitz, because we think his writings are still valuable, too... ;)

OOC:

No prob. I'll post up a brief RP post detailing Chinese mobilization near Indochina and a couple of comminques to "catch up" on things and maybe start to involve China in this World War later this week when I continue to improve my health.

"World War?"

There isn't going to be a World War (not yet, anyway). Just a messy little thing in the Balkans... ;)

OOC:
The world is on verge of war because of France's actions? Germany has a new fuhrer? The British player just came back?
1. Right.
2. The late Kaiser Wilhelm II von Hohenzollern was assas.. died of food poisoning. In his will he gave the entire land and titles of the Hohenzollern family to Freiherr Mannfred von Richthofen. Shortly after Mannfred was crowned Mannfred I of Germany, the Reichstag was burned by communists and some of the communists living in Germany were executed.
After many reforms Kaiser Mannfred I renounced his title as Kaiser and called himself simply Führer (Leader), he has also created the Abwehr (who in the rpg are more like Gestapo that military intelligence) to track down and execute the enemies of the Empire (communists, socialists, French, and liberals), he has also formed the Shutzstaffel that serve as personal body guards for the nobles and the military branch Waffen-SS which represents the Führer on the battlefield.
3. Right.

OOC: Anyone knows anything about how this vote fro confindence in France is going, or better yet where France is?

Hello, I'll take Portugal please. And I am very well aware of war with France and look forward to fighting them.

OOC: Anyone knows anything about how this vote fro confindence in France is going, or better yet where France is?


Eating Cheese??



......Slightly more seriously no. Also did I miss that Anglo-American-Russo-Chinese summit whilst I was on holiday??

You can have them! I'll post the info I dug up on Portugal while I was handling it before it had a player ...

Now I have a war to fight in the Balkans... <sigh>

OTOH, I will extend a standing offer of military aid, and invite you to join the Grand Alliance. For more immediate assistance, contact Voxio (Italy), since he's freer to help than I am (although if France invades you and Italy counters, I'll offer him my fleet to support naval attacks on France).

I'll post that offer in the RP thread, in formal fashion.

Hmmm, yeah. For a French attack, you need the French Player :p

Familinia: Portugal you are. No worries, if France attacks you, they will be swamped away in Indochina by Japan! *ahum, probably China but hey...I got to raize my reputation :D

And NO, in case of war, will you RP Siamese forces, or do I have to do it?

Alright thanks. *Starts massing the armies*

France is in a tight spot so you probably wont have any problems with them (The entire Grand Alliance plus some other nations, not mentioning foreigners buying the French government). In fact there's almost too many threatening France for being aggressive towards Benelux and Portugal. Hmm, never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so few to so many :D

If any of you happen to see ANY military statistics of Portugal's military in 1900 let me know. I've searched Wikipedia, Google, and others and the cloest I've found was that they sent two divisons to help on the Western Front in WW1.

And NO, in case of war, will you RP Siamese forces, or do I have to do it?My view is that if you treat the Siamese as partners, the way the Germans treated Hungary (for example) in WW II, then I see no problem in you handling them. Just act in their best interests.

Basically, my RP has been designed to get you to woo Siam rather than just run them over. Whether they remain in your control depends on how much you abuse them. Me, I wouldn't - but that's me.

Tell you what: I'll keep an eye out over your shoulder while you take them out for a spin. If I don't like what I see, I'll kibbutz. ;)

Oh, and they want a brace of torpedo boats, if you don't mind. Take your time. After that, maybe an old destroyer or two...

If any of you happen to see ANY military statistics of Portugal's military in 1900 let me know. I've searched Wikipedia, Google, and others and the cloest I've found was that they sent two divisons to help on the Western Front in WW1.Relax. I said I'd post what I have tonight...

PortugalBasic Data (http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/F/firstworldwar/comba_portugal.html)
Regular Army: 33,000
Navy: 1 battleship, 4 cruisers, 9 destroyers, 1 submarineShip Lists (http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/portuguese_navy.htm)

I wont treat Siam them as Germany did with Hungary in WWII. That was a disatreous "friendship". I rather have a sort of status like England has with Asutralia. I think I got your hint about the ships...

Torpedo boats were actually the precursors to destroyers (gunboats, more or less). Fast PT boats were decades away.

Here are some British torpedo boats for reference (http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/torpedo_boats.htm).

They weren't as fast as PT boats, but they were pretty fast and agile, compared to the large bulky battlecruisers and dreadnoughts. But I admit that I had a picture in my mind of fast small vessels like the PT boats than the larger ones that exsisted RL.

They weren't as fast as PT boats, but they were pretty fast and agile, compared to the large bulky battlecruisers and dreadnoughts. But I admit that I had a picture in my mind of fast small vessels like the PT boats than the larger ones that exsisted RL.Well, you'll have to wait for bigger and more powerful engines for those PT boats. Nonetheless, these were enough of a danger that the navies of the world invented the destroyer (which was initially called a "torpedo boat destroyer").

I think they're kind of cool...

And historically, the Japanese used them to great effect.

Relative Liberty, it's my understanding that you're building a Panzerschutzwagen (Armoured Police Waggon), not a Panzerkampfwagen (Armoured Fighting Vehicle). Why then the protection against shrapnel and grenades?

I mean, when you started this effort, you justified it in terms of a perceived need to put down communist-led revolts in your cities. So why isn't this just a big lorry with an armoured cab and plated bed?

OCC:

I do think now is the time to work out what we are going to do about France and Russia. Currently both RPers (Yderia and Defuniak) have failed to post anything for weeks (Defuniak last posted on August 13th and Yderia August 10th) and have made no valid excuse is as to their absence (at least I haven't seen it).

Being that these two nations are absolutely essential to the survival of the Age of Imperialism RP, I do believe we must act now. Thus, I suggest someone TG both players with a warning stating that if they do not reply with either a promise of continued RPing or a valid excuse to their absence 24 hours after the TG is sent, they will be offically removed of their positions and France/Russia will once again be open to claiming.

I am quite curious to hear all of your thoughts on this important matter.

OCC:

I do think now is the time to work out what we are going to do about France and Russia. Currently both RPers (Yderia and Defuniak) have failed to post anything for weeks (Defuniak last posted on August 13th and Yderia August 10th) and have made no valid excuse is as to their absence (at least I haven't seen it).

Being that these two nations are absolutely essential to the survival of the Age of Imperialism RP, I do believe we must act now. Thus, I suggest someone TG both players with a warning stating that if they do not reply with either a promise of continued RPing or a valid excuse to their absence 24 hours after the TG is sent, they will be offically removed of their positions and France/Russia will once again be open to claiming.

I am quite curious to hear all of your thoughts on this important matter.

I second this motion.

Defuniak hasn't RP'ed France properly in my honest opinion. He somewhat god-modded jet planes and probably would magically produce tanks. I do realize he may be a 11 year old in RL, but still, he should listen to people like Lachenberg and Nadarana Obrana who knows what's feasible and not in this RP, then modify his RP's accordingly.

I don't know about Yderia. He did RP the Tsar pretty well, and had an interesting angle going on. I'd hate to see that ruined. :(

I agree with the proposal.

If you have a RL and can't post for a while, the least you could do is announce that. If you don't...

Relative Liberty, it's my understanding that you're building a Panzerschutzwagen (Armoured Police Waggon), not a Panzerkampfwagen (Armoured Fighting Vehicle). Why then the protection against shrapnel and grenades?

I mean, when you started this effort, you justified it in terms of a perceived need to put down communist-led revolts in your cities. So why isn't this just a big lorry with an armoured cab and plated bed?
In case of an uprising most participants would be armed, after all the communists would likely try something like the RL Russian Revolution. The same goes for other political factions who dislike Mannfred's rule.
Now how would they get the guns? I have upset the Hohenzollern family by taking their throne and most of their fortune, they could easily supply the revolutionists with money and supplies.
But why not shoot the Hohenzollers? Because that would almost certainly trigger a revolt, this time supported by a majority of the nobility, despite the fact that the Hohenzollern are related to many of the leaders in Europe. That's why I sent some of the former princes to W-SS divisions in hope of them getting killed in action. Although it is dangerous to have your enemy close to the armed forces I beleive that enough of the officers support me to let me know in time if the situation gets out of hand.

I'll send a TG to Yderia and Defuniak when I get home from school.

Well, you'll have to wait for bigger and more powerful engines for those PT boats. Nonetheless, these were enough of a danger that the navies of the world invented the destroyer (which was initially called a "torpedo boat destroyer").

I think they're kind of cool...

And historically, the Japanese used them to great effect.

Kind of cool?!?!?! :eek:

They rule! Great way to eliminate a fleet in the middle of the night...in port...Port Arthur??? :D

Maybe I said it wrong, but in my eyes motor torpedo boats are a great, effective and not too expensive weapon. Why do you think I have more than 100 MTB's?

BTW, school is starting again for me *starts crying* so I'll post a lot lesser than usual. Probably check the forums only once a day...

Sharina, before I'll attack I'll wait till some stuff has been orginized. The Imperial Divisions should be ready by wednesday. Some extra training should be ready by Friday. I'll also wait till Friday for something to happen with France. I'll TG Defuniak and ask if he's still interested in AoI.

I spoke to Yderia on msn, he implied that he is not meaning to return. He didn't fully say I'm not going to RP anymore, however that was the gist of things that I got. Pity.

They rule! Great way to eliminate a fleet in the middle of the night...in port...Port Arthur??? :DNah, they're a great way to ambush an enemy fleet trying to steam past the Dalmatian coast en route to Treiste... :D

Then we have to find two new players to take control of France and Germany. I suggest that, unless there are any volunteers, two of the mods would rp until we find new players.
As this would put some pressure on the mods, I propose that Narodna Odbrana be elevated to mod. Unless Warta Endor or Nebarri Prime objects within two days, and NO agrees of course, he will receive the 411M1gh7Y h4xx0r p0w3Rs of the Mods.

Now how would they get the guns? I have upset the Hohenzollern family by taking their throne and their fortune, they could easily supply the revolutionists with money and supplies.
But why not shoot the Hohenzollers? Because that would almost certainly trigger a revolt, this time supported by a majority of the nobility, despite the fact that the Hohenzollern are related to many of the leaders in Europe. That's why I sent some of the former princes to W-SS divisions in hope of them getting killed in action. Although it is dangerous to have your enemy close to the armed forces I beleive that enough of the officers support me to let me know in time if the situation gets out of hand.As the player angling to get control of the aristocratic resistance to your rule, I can guarantee you that the nobility will not support a socialist revolution in the streets of Germany.

But there are disgruntled German socialists out there right now, and your hard line has - if anything - weakened the socialist "right" and "centre" in favour of the "left". Indeed, the Rosa Luxembourgs, Julius Martovs, and Nadezhda Krupskayas have benefited from of the hard line that almost everyone has taken against socialism (and not just you). As no one is supporting them right now, this is not a really big problem. But should someone begin to do so... <shudder>

Trust me though, your nobles will not be going "Red" any time soon... ;)

Then we have to find two new players to take control of France and Germany. I suggest that, unless there are any volunteers, two of the mods would rp until we find new players.
As this would put some pressure on the mods, I propose that Narodna Odbrana be elevated to mod. Unless Warta Endor or Nebarri Prime objects within two days, and NO agrees of course, he will receive the 411M1gh7Y h4xx0r p0w3Rs of the Mods.I don't know if I have the time, but I'll do it temporarily.

It would be an utter conflict of interest for me to handle Russia, as much as I would like to follow through on my concept of co-opted revolution.

I could RP France, but I'll tell you right now that would be pretty radical, too. Not as much of a conflict of interest, though.

If I do RP France, I have a question for everyone, though: it's 1912 in the Balkans. Is it 1913 or 1914 in France? That makes a huge amount of difference...

BTW, I now trust WE to have Siam as a puppet. Do read up on the King of Siam at that time (quite a wise and caring King, BTW) and try to get the nuances of his conflicted position (and the thoughts of his military, who might or might not be disloyal) right. That would give Siam a lot of character and lend authenticity to the game.

But if you abuse my Siamese, WE, I may have to bitch-slap you. ;)

As the player angling to get control of the aristocratic resistance to your rule, I can guarantee you that the nobility will not support a socialist revolution in the streets of Germany.

But there are disgruntled German socialists out there right now, and your hard line has - if anything - weakened the socialist "right" and "centre" in favour of the "left". Indeed, the Rosa Luxembourgs, Julius Martovs, and Nadezhda Krupskayas have benefited from of the hard line that almost everyone has taken against socialism (and not just you). As no one is supporting them right now, this is not a really big problem. But should someone begin to do so... <shudder>

Trust me though, your nobles will no be going "Red" any time soon... ;)
Wether the rebels are socialists or not doesn't really matter, as long as Mannfred perceives any group as a threat he will do all he can to suppress them.


I can take Russia as I currently (damn that Freudian slip) have no plans for war against their nation. But that wold mean that you or anyone else would have to play France.

Maybe I could play France. For the next 2-3 weeks, I'll be a bit busier than until now, but I can promise I'll ckeck daily for new developements and I won't develop any wonderweapons in one post :p . Besides, Romania and France had no conflicts of interests that I know of.

Okay, I'll wait until you're ready tomorrow to start your surprise invasion, WE.

I have no problems with Boghimia playing France.

However, Relative Liberty is playing Germany, correct? How can he also RP as Russia? Wouldn't that be an conflict of interest?

OCC: I shall second the motion to place Boghimia as the temporary RPer of France, as Rumania is not quite as important (no offense).

I'm sorry about not posting. I'll have to withdraw from this RP, as well, i lost my rights to pc... ;) ;)

Thank you, and I had Great Fun During My play.

I just realised that Russia and I have completely different stances when it comes to the Balkan crisis.

OOC: Yes, I placed the vote of confidence in 1912 precisely because of Poincare's 1913 election as President of the Third Republic. I had thought to give the incoming French player the maximum flexibility to choose his own direction.

That's also what Part II will do in Russia. Don't worry, it will be open ended enough to provide the new Russian player maximum possible latitude.

I hope you haven't ruined things for the next French player, Bogie!

Hey, if the next player doesn't like Poincare, he can always get a Portuguese/Swiss/Belgian to kill him. Defuniak has insured that France has plenty of enemies.

Thankfully I'm schizophrenic so unless anybody objects I can try to rp Russia despite the conflict of interest in the Balkans.

The attempt is assumed to be in early 1912 (January or February?).

The idea is to provide a little drama, and a way for the new Russian player to choose his direction. Does Nicholas die, leaving Alexandar and Grand Duke Nicholas as co-regents? Does their infighting open the door to revolution? Who takes over? The Grand Duke himself, with the aristocratc (in an army coup)? Kerensky and the Whites (in another army coup)? Julius Martov and the Mensheviks? Krupskaya and the Bolsheviks? Does Stalin rise as a challenger to Krupskaya? Or does Nicholas live and tighten up his regime, following in the footsteps of Ivan the Terrible? Maybe he finds that he needs the aristocrats and has to relent and bring back primitive democracy - or maybe the assassination wasn't directed at him at all, but at Franz Ferdinand.

It's now wide open. The resolution should, however, take several months or even a couple of years.

As for Archduke Franz Ferdinand and Countess Sophie, their lives are in my hands.

sorry for not being able to post the last couple of days, school (especially the Dutch fourth year) is very tiring and frustrating :D

I already asked Norodna Odbrana to become a mod. I fully support it but he's our specialist/history advisor/supreme ultimate know it all (positively:) ) guy. I think there won't change much if he becomes mod. I don't mind other players than mods RPing copuntries. I would actually appreciate it. One request is that the player is a good RPer (mind you, I think everyone here sofar, well not everyone but most of you out there, are good RPers. Cheers for you guys/galls ;) ) but that won't be hard. I really enjoyed the Rp sofar.

Sharina, as I said, my RP activity will considerably slow down during school. Sadly my only "free" time in which I can RP large amounts is in the weekends...with a bit of luck. So, don't be dissapointed by my absence or RPing qualitly. I'm doing my best!

Norodna Odbrana! You naughty boy! I think Yasukuni will expand within a couple of months ;) * Fragmenting bullets, how dare you! My poor good Japanese Soldiers! I will have to gather the remains of the soldiers myself if this continues!

*No offence ment to any Japanese relative of a soldier or foreign person or whoever may see this as an offence. Just to be sure.

ps. Interesting RPing. I hope it will benefit Japan ;)

Then Narodna Odbrana may consider himself mod, if he so wishes.

About that assassination attempt, that could prove to be very interesting for this rpg, couldn't you ask Russia that K.u.K. authorities lead the investigation ;)

OOC:

No problem, Warta Endor.

When you're ready to do the Japanese invasion, let me know. :)

I need someone to RP the Hashemite Emir Husayn ibn Ali (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherif_Hussein_bin_Ali), who was the rival of the Saudis and formally held title as the Sharif of Mecca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharif_of_Mecca).

anyone know how the M1 Garand worked. i mean i know how its clip and stuff poped out and that it was Semi-auto but did it fire the same way as a Colt pistol? i don't think so but i could be wrong and i don't have the time to look it up right now. and how did the clip system work i know the clip poped out after it ran out of ammo but how?

for anyone whop cares i'm planing on having Spain try and make a semi auto rifle

<sigh>

We agree to play an RP in the 1910-1920 era and everybody wants to have 1940-1950 vintage weapons...

Semi-automatics might be a bit far into the future y'know ;)
The M1 Garand was invented in 1934, and it was (as far as I know) one of the first semi-autos.

Most major powers appear to have had the ability to build armoured cars well before 1910. Here’s what I have found thus far (in brief):

Great Britain: Vickers, Son & Maxim, Ltd. Appears to have displayed an armoured car in 1902. I can find no data on this vehicle.

More interesting is the 1900-vintage Fowler “Road Locomotive”. Britain had already begun using armoured trains (an innovation dating back to the American War Between the States, if not further) against the Boers in 1899 (the movie “Young Churchill” features the famous Briton’s escape from a Boer attack on such a train; it’s worth seeing to get an idea of how such trains were used in the period). Someone at the War Office had the bright idea of using steam tractors to haul supplies and artillery around the countryside, so in 1899 there were trials, and the Fowler steam tractor won. Forty or so were procured and shipped to South Africa by mid-1900.

Two of these were armoured and supplied with a train of four armoured cars to create a pair of “road train” (the tractor itself is shown here (http://www.landships.freeservers.com/fowler_colourplan1_small.jpg), a full train here (http://www.landships.freeservers.com/jpegs/fowler_colourplan2.jpg)).

For whatever reason, the armour was stripped from these tractors upon their arrival in South Africa and no further Fowlers were armoured in this fashion.

Here is a web page where you can read about this (http://www.landships.freeservers.com/fowler_b5_armtract.htm).

France: Charron, Girardot & Voight built an armoured car, called the Automitrailleuse, in 1901-1902 at the behest of the French Army. The vehicle (pictured here (http://www.frontline18.com/images/?id=2072)) was delivered but apparently elicited no further interest until…

Russia: Following his nation’s defeat at the hands of Japan in the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-05, the Czar became interested in building armoured cars for his cavalry. A Cossack officer, M.A. Nakasjidze, put forward some ideas based on his experience in the Far East, and this resulted in an order to CGV (see above for a second-generation design [pictured here (http://www.frontline18.com/images/?id=2073)). One such vehicle was built for France and one for Russia; the Russian vehicle appears to have become the first AFV to fire upon its own citizenry in the 1905 Petrograd revolt.

Here is some data:Armament: 1 x Hotchkiss 8mm MG in a 360º traverse turret (designed by a French naval officer
Armour: 6mm nickel/steel plates (bullet resistant [not bulletproof])
Engine: 30 HP
Speed: 45km/h (road); 30km/h (field)
Crew: ???
Weight: 3 tonnes
Notes: Wooden wheels, protected by steel plates; tyres stuffed with a special liquid that allowed them to function for about ten minutes after being burst. Portable U-shaped tracks for trenches and two headlights for night operation; the side windows had shutters (shown closed in this picture (http://www.frontline18.com/images/?id=2071) and this one (http://www.scripophily.com/webcart/vigs/chararmouredcar.jpg)).Russia apparently ordered about a dozen of these vehicles; France order some as well. Germany apparently also came into possession of some, although some sources say this was during the Great War while others say that they were seized by German customs en route to Russia and given to the Germany Army for study and trial.

Here's more data on the Charron Automitrailleuse (http://www.landships.freeservers.com/retromodels_charron_ac.htm)

Meanwhile, Russia continued to buy foreign armoured cars in small numbers. Once war broke out in 1914, purchases soared.

Here is a page devoted to the Austin models (http://derela.republika.pl/austin.htm ), some of which were built in Russia and some of which were built in Britain. It took until 1916 or 1917 for Russia to set up factories for internal construction.

The Putilov–Garford (http://www.landships.freeservers.com/jpegs/putgarf_8.JPG) was an armoured truck; at 11 tonnes, it was one of the biggest armoured “cars” around. There were also lots of Izorski-Fiats (http://www.landships.freeservers.com/modelkrak_izorski_fiat_kitreview.htm) mostly imported and Austin-Putilovs (http://www.landships.freeservers.com/extratechs_austinputilov_kitreview.htm).

Remember, use before 1914 was in small – indeed, almost experimental – quantities. But adoption after the fighting started was almost immediate.

Turkey: CGV decided to leave the armoured car business shortly after the Russian order, but other companies got into the act. Hotchkiss, makers of the French MG, built four vehicles for the Porte (shown here (http://www.frontline18.com/images/?id=2074) and here (http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/1975/kp19c.jpg)). In 1908 these were captured by the Young Turks and used in their revolt against the Sultan (making them the second AFV’s to be used for internal affairs).

Here is some data:Armament: 1x Hotchkiss 8 mm MG
Armour: 5 mm steel plated
Engine: 4-cylinder petrol engine, 30 HP
Speed: 45 km/h (on flat roads)
Crew: 4
Weight: 3 tonnesItaly: Italy’s use of armoured cars didn’t start until after the Great War began, but adoption was almost immediate. The Lancia IZ (http://www.landships.freeservers.com/jpegs/timrigsby/m1915_001.jpg ) was one of the most important vehicles in the Italian service. Note the wire cutters in front, to break through barbed wired (only where strung across a road).

Here is a page on the Lanzia IZ (http://www.landships.freeservers.com/reviresco_lancia_ac_kitreview.htm).

Germany: Although offered early armoured car designs, the OKL was unimpressed with what the saw (this was their response to the aeroplane as well). In 1915 they finally held a competition for an armoured car, but nothing came of it.

Here is a page on the Büssig A5P (only one of which was built) (http://www.landships.freeservers.com/mgm_a5p_kitreview.htm).

Here is a general page on Germany’s early armoured cars (http://www.landships.freeservers.com/early_german_ac_timrigsby.htm).

The United States: R.P. Davidson tried to get the U.S. Army interested in a steam-powered mobile machine-gun carrier (http://images.library.uiuc.edu:8081/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/tdc&CISOPTR=1237&DMDIM=700&DMDIMW=600&DMDIMH=600 ) that he designed in 1898. He wasn’t especially successful, but his effort could arguably be called the world’s first armoured car.

The Dual Monarchy: As in Germany, numerous efforts were made to sell the k.u.k. military an armoured car. The earliest was by Austro-Daimler, in 1905-06 (here’s a picture (http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/1975/kp18b.jpg)). This is the one that famously “scared the horses”, leading to Franz Josef’s famous prohibition on the use of such weapons.

In 1915, reconsideration was given to the idea, but as in the case of Germany, it went nowhere.

Here is a page on the Hungarian Romfell (http://www.landships.freeservers.com/romfell_info.htm).

Here is a page on the Junovicz Armoured Car (http://www.landships.freeservers.com/junovicz_info.htm).

The thing is that most of these vehicles were around before 1910, and so I have to retract my earlier opposition to them (although I still wonder why any nation would build hundreds of them in advance of the carnage of 1914).

1902? I knew they were around 1912, but I must say I'm surprised they were built so early.

As for my motives, those are top secret.

So have you decided who was responsible for the assassination yet?

Slavic Bynzantium will throw a hissy-fit if I say that it was the Serbs. They're little saints who would never do anything like that...

I figure that leaves Germany or the Socialists (or maybe Russian aristocrats). But this has more to do with Russian politics than mine, so I figure that it's Russia's call.

If it turned out is was Germany, that would lead to a serious conflict of interests, something I want to avoid at all costs. However, blaming the Serbs would lead to the smae problem, although not as serious. Russian revolutionists is the only option left so for now that will have to do.

To be honest, Japan could also be a candidate. KuK being a close ally to China (which seems to be pretty public with all the help given) and Russia an ancient rival, and a possible enemy in the comming war against China...

It is on its way, no worries folks, we will see some actions at last...

Do you want to claim responsibility? ;)

Or I could publicly blame the opposition in Russia and get rid of them in gigantic concentration camps in Gulag, after awhile it would be discovered that Japan was behind the attack and Russia declares war on them. Upon reacing Tokyo the Russians find no evidence of the assassination attempt being a Japanese plan, and instead blame Serbia. But in Sarajevo it is discovered that the French were behind it all!
Of course, fifty years from now people discover that it was all just a cunning plan by the Czar himself...

<sigh>

We agree to play an RP in the 1910-1920 era and everybody wants to have 1940-1950 vintage weapons...

Did i say it would be around in 1920? i just said i want to know how it works so i can RP making it when the time is right

;.; How come the Italians aren't suspected? We can assassinate people too ya know...

Please don't blame the Italians...we don't need a war with the Russians...in Fact...let's blame the Maltese...Malta needs the attention and a Good old fashion war.

Did i say it would be around in 1920? i just said i want to know how it works so i can RP making it when the time is right
Wikipedia is supreme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand#Operation)

;.; How come the Italians aren't suspected? We can assassinate people too ya know...

Please don't blame the Italians...we don't need a war with the Russians...in Fact...let's blame the Maltese...Malta needs the attention and a Good old fashion war.Motive. means, opportunity. You don't have the motive. Sorry, but we'll just have to keep Guido in reserve for now...

We need to resolve our general disagreement over the current date.

The nations that have been participating in the Balkan Wars thread are still, for the most part, in 1912. But other players have moved ahead to other dates, which has created a potential problem.

It's almost inevitable that this sort of thins should occur: wars can take a long time to resolve, and yet uninvolved parties don't want to have to wait around for weeks to make their next move.

What I'd like to do is lesson the confusion by having players declare when key events in their nations' RP have occured.

I'll start:

Dated EventsMarch 4th, 1912:The Dual Monarchy mobilises half its army in preparation for war, under the guise of conducting exercises along its southern frontier. These exercises begin on March 17th, 1912.March 27th, 1912:Vienna presents Istanbul with a note demanding the creation of an independent Albanian state from its Western Rumelian lands. The note further insists that the Porte permit k.u.k. military forces on Turkish soil and support these troops with their own by placing the Porte's forces in Western Rumelia under k.u.k. command, so that the Dual Monarchy can assure a peaceful transition to independence.March 28th, 1912:The Porte unexpectedly caves in to these demands; by mid-morning, k.u.k. forces are pouring into the Sanjak. Serbia and Montenegro are caught off guard and unprepared, and - rather than wage war on the Dual Monarchy - eventually agree to demobilise and accept the new status quo, tempered by the promise of future negotiations on border adjustments.

On the same day, the k.u.k. lands troops in the Dodecanese and in Albania. The former secure Rhodes and the other Dodecanese Islands for Greece, while the latter link up with Malësi rebels to secure the territory around the fortress city of Shkodër from Montenegrin attack. Subsequently, the Dual Monarchy hires Italian pilots to drop leaflets across the Albanian hinterland proclaiming the creation of a new Albanian nation and calling for armed volunteers.April 10th, 1912:Roumania and the Dual Monarchy agree to a three-year non-aggression pact. Both sides begin immediate demobilisation of forces along their common frontier.

Greece takes possession of Rhodes and the Dodecanese from the Dual Monarchy that same day.Arpil 21st, 1912:The Dual Monarchy lands a military mission in Palestine, in response to pleas from the Porte for help in its war with the Balkan League.

OOC: A request has gone out for someone to RP the Hashemites (Sharrifs of Mecca), long-time rivals to the Saudis.May 1st, 1912:The so-called Albanian National Council, led by Ismail Qemal Bey, declares Albania's independence.

OOC: This creates a new minor nation, Albania. For now (until we get an Albanian player) this is a puppet state under the control of the Dual Monarchy.Undated EventsContact with German Aristocrats:These events happen after the death of Kaiser Wilhelm III (TBD by Germany)Technical Assistance to China:No date needed in most cases; between 1911 and the beginning of the Second Sino-Japanese War.The Assassination Attempt in Petrograd:Two to three months after the funeral of the Japanese Emperor and Crown Prince, but this could be moved it Russia )or its proxy) desire it. My sense is that the attack took place in late winter or early spring, however.

The investigation follows in the months thereafter.The French Vote of No Confidence:Before 1913, so as to give Raymond Poincare the chance to make a political comeback in time to be elected President in 1913. I believe that Bogmihia, as proxy, has set these events in early 1912, although I think late 1912 a safer date (otherwise, 1912 gets to be too hectic a year).So now if other people could post major dates as well, we could get a sense of when things happened or are happening, and maybe get things down to two agreed dates (one in the Balkans and one everywhere else).

[/INDENT]The French Vote of No Confidence:Before 1913, so as to give Raymond Poincare the chance to make a political comeback in time to be elected President in 1913. I believe that Bogmihia, as proxy, has set these events in early 1912, although I think late 1912 a safer date (otherwise, 1912 gets to be too hectic a year).[/INDENT]So now if other people could post major dates as well, we could get a sense of when things happened or are happening, and maybe get things down to two agreed dates (one in the Balkans and one everywhere else).
Actually, I set the assasination attempt in late 1912. After such an event usually follows a wave of popularity for the victim and I wanted to take advantage of it in the elections from January 1913.

Important events for Romania:

In 1910/1911, Romania started industrializing (treaties of industrial developement with Germany and Britain).

In 1912, a 3 years non-aggresion pact with k.u.k.

In 1914, electoral reform (universal vote) and land reform.

A non-aggresion pact with Russia, sometimes between 1910 and 1914.

The conspiracy against late Kaiser Wilhelm II was formed aprox. two weeks after he returned from Russia and somewhere between five and two days after the Czar of Russia created the middle class to reduce social differencs. Wilhelm would therefore die around the same time as Lenin and Trotsky.

about the only dates i know of for Spain are

Spain joined the Grand alliance (i don't know but i asummed it was 1912 or 1913)

Spain starts to build its navy (1912/1913)

and what year is it now?

Actually, I set the assasination attempt in late 1912. After such an event usually follows a wave of popularity for the victim and I wanted to take advantage of it in the elections from January 1913.OK, let's say that the Vote of Confidence was in August or September (you pick, just give France enough time in 1912 for three diplomatic crises). The new elections were set for 60 days later, and the attempt occured two weeks before the election (how's that for drama)?

<pause>

Or do you mean that the General Election was held in January, 1913 (vs. the election of a new President by the National Assembly)? Damn, I'm going to have to look up when the Assembly voted in Poincare...

<click...click>

January 17th, 1913. So I figure the General Election (of the Assembly itself) would have been 1-2 months before, so November-December, which puts the Vote of Confidence 2 months earlier than that, so ... yeah, September-October.

Set the final dates, and we'll be cool.

The conspiracy against late Kaiser Wilhelm II was formed aprox. two weeks after he returned from Russia and somewhere between five and two days after the Czar of Russia created the middle class to reduce social differencs. Wilhelm would therefore die around the same time as Lenin and Trotsky.So was that in 1911 or 1912? I'd like to get a date on that, and since Yderia's no longer in the game, you can set the date of Lenin and Trotsky's death, and I'll add that N. K. Krupskaya's rise to power among the Bolsheviks would happen in the weeks that followed that.

I figure the consolidation of power by von Richthofen would take about 8-10 months. Sound right?

If memory serves me, France started acting up during von Richthofen's first year in power, so maybe it looks like this: Lenin and Trotsky Killed: Early (March?) 1911


Kaiser Murdered: Early (March?) 1911


Funeral in Vienna (Krupskaya): Late Spring (April?) 1911


Political Manoevering in Germany: Summer 1911


German Armament Program Begins: Summer 1911


Assassination Attempt in Petrograd: Winter 1911-12


France Threatens Switzerland: Fall 1911


France Threatens Belgium: Spring 1912


France Threatens Portugal: Summer 1912Comments?

about the only dates i know of for Spain are

Spain joined the Grand alliance (i don't know but i asummed it was 1912 or 1913)

Spain starts to build its navy (1912/1913)

and what year is it now?That's what I want to establish.

Important dates for France:

- between 1910-1912, the three idiotic attacks against Switzerlan, Belgium and Portugal (EDIT: I'd rather place them before 1912, when Raymond Poincare was not prime-minister)

- early October 1912, a no confidence vote against Poincare

- early November 1912, a failed assasination attempt against Poincare

- early December 1912, general elections for the Parliament

- January 17th 1913, Poincare is elected president by the reunited chambers of Parliament

- early March 1913, Poincare changes the constitution, strengthening the president's attributions

France will not get involved in international politics until March 1913.

Important dates for France:

- between 1910-1912, the three idiotic attacks against Switzerlan, Belgium and Portugal (EDIT: I'd rather place them before 1912, when Raymond Poincare was not prime-minister)

- early October 1912, a no confidence vote against Poincare

- early November 1912, a failed assasination attempt against Poincare

- early December 1912, general elections for the Parliament

- January 17th 1913, Poincare is elected president by the reunited chambers of Parliament

- early March 1913, Poincare changes the constitution, strengthening the president's attributions

France will not get involved in international politics until March 1913.Sounds good. Change the crises to 1911-12, though, since they all happened after the death of the Kaiser (which we're still going to set).

Once all this is done, I'll publish a new recruitment letter with a news/history update.

NO: Sounds good.
The burning of the Reichstag would happen sometime in spring 1912 (as the members were lured there by a false emergency meeting to discuss French aggression) and the attempted extermination of socialists during the following month.

OK, so your offer of a NAP to the Dual Monarchy would come in 19-when?

(Now do you see why I need this? I have to know if the Balkan mess is behind me...)

Late current year (it's 1915 right?). If I remember it right the Triple Alliance between KuK, Germany and Italy expired during the summer that year.

Late current year (it's 1915 right?). If I remember it right the Triple Alliance between KuK, Germany and Italy expired during the summer that year.The Triple Alliance was started in 1887 and renewed every five years. 1912 was meant to be the year Italy joined the Grand Alliance. If Germany renewed in 1912, then the next renewal year would have been 1917.

So did Germany not renew in 1912?

(Historically Italy renewed in 1912 and then claimed that the alliance did not obligate it to go to war over Serbia in 1914.)

The Triple Alliance was started in 1887 and renewed every five years. 1912 was meant to be the year Italy joined the Grand Alliance. If Germany renewed in 1912, then the next renewal year would have been 1917.

So did Germany not renew in 1912?
Think not, since the Grand Alliance already tied us together, and even included more countries than just the three of us.

OK, so your note is in 1915, then?

Right.

Erm... are there any more spots open? Namely, can I play as a Polish resistance? (Wants to play as Poland. BADLY)

Erm... are there any more spots open? Namely, can I play as a Polish resistance? (Wants to play as Poland. BADLY)
I weren't aware of any Polish resistance in 1910, but you can rp as either France and Russia.

Nevermind... it's progressed too far for me to keep up...

O.K., the I'll finish up my involvement in the Balkan mess (which is almost over anyway). And move on to 1915!

well since i'm WZO on E20 i might aswell have the set, WZO please dudes

I want to take China!!!

Go back to the first post of this thread and read up who has claimed which RL nation to RP with. :rolleyes: You will find that I currently am RP'ing China.


That aside, we do need new players as this RP project is kind of static right now- only a select few are keeping it alive, most notably Narodna Odbrana and Relative Liberty.

well since i'm WZO on E20 i might aswell have the set, WZO please dudesYeah, I figured I'd set myself up for trouble.

Reread the thread - or at least my posts. No one else has dealt with Zionism. But I have - and will.

(FYI, I'm playing the Dual Monarchy of Austria and Hungary, or just "the Dual Monarchy" for short. And unless you can give me a really, really, really, really, really good reason for it, I'll be opposing Jewish resettlement in Palestine.

Of course - just to make it fair - when he finally gets his act together and goes political, Herr Hitler is going to be a dead man. I've already written that little story.)

Yeah, I figured I'd set myself up for trouble.

Reread the thread - or at least my posts. No one else has dealt with Zionism. But I have - and will.

(FYI, I'm playing the Dual Monarchy of Austria and Hungary, or just "the Dual Monarchy" for short. And unless you can give me a really, really, really, really, really good reason for it, I'll be opposing Jewish resettlement in Palestine.

Of course - just to make it fair - when he finally gets his act together and goes political, Herr Hitler is going to be a dead man. I've already written that little story.)
Bah, who needs Hitler?

Bah, who needs Hitler?

Heh. I was actually wondering what kind of potential stories and history could be created if Hitler became a military advisor for a modernizing China. :p

Heh. I was actually wondering what kind of potential stories and history could be created if Hitler became a military advisor for a modernizing China. :pYou want a failed artist to advise your military?!?

Hey guys, Im a little swamped at home at the moment as you have probably noticed with my complete lack of posting here. I think I've probably got too many RP's on the go to cope with at the moment, and as I'm furthest behind with this one I think I had better drop this first.

Sorry about leaving you in the lurch, but hopefully another player will step in and fill the gap. I havn't done much with GB other than what happened in history, although I have accelerated the ship building program slightly.

Good luck to you all for the rest of the RP, and hopefully I'll RP with you all again at a later date. Even you NO ;).

You want a failed artist to advise your military?!?
Yeah, Hitler never was good at the art of war :p

Right, we need to get players for GB, Russia and France.

Yes, we need players badly.

I'll cover Great Britain until we get another. But the Brits are popular so this shouldn't take long (I hope).

We could create a new thread just for advertising.

You want a failed artist to advise your military?!?

Haha. I thought it'd be something to explore- have Hitler invent stuff like Blitzkrieg and such. :p

Haha. I thought it'd be something to explore- have Hitler invent stuff like Blitzkrieg and such. :pHitler didn't invent the blitzkrieg. It was independently invented by a bunch of people (Guderian, Fuller, some Russians) based on an analysis of what went wrong in the trenches from 1914-18.

We could create a new thread just for advertising.Already did that (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9563683#post9563683).

I'm not doing a good job of catching fish...

Can I take Great Britain?

Hitler didn't invent the blitzkrieg. It was independently invented by a bunch of people (Guderian, Fuller, some Russians) based on an analysis of what went wrong in the trenches from 1914-18.

Really? Then are you saying that Hitler was no more than a figurehead for the whole German military machine? I find that difficult to believe.

Hitler had skill with propganda and stirring up people feelings aganist France and the injustices bestowed upon Germany. I thought if I could harness that power to create a nationalist fervor in China?

Really? Then are you saying that Hitler was no more than a figurehead for the whole German military machine? I find that difficult to believe.

Hitler had skill with propganda and stirring up people feelings aganist France and the injustices bestowed upon Germany. I thought if I could harness that power to create a nationalist fervor in China?Can't Guozu Zhuge do that himself? Who needs a nut like Adolf?

Can I take Great Britain?Sure.

We're currently in 1912-13.

Some ground rules: Keep it realistic:


You have what Great Britain had (including the Empire). There is a Canadian player and an ANZAC player, so you should consult with them before hitting them up for troops. Don't godmod having more men than the Brits could field, or 100 battleships, or anything like that. You can build more of one thing (like ships) if you're willing to give up something else.


Technology should be introduced at the same rate as happened historically, No atom bombs in 1930, moon rockets in 1940, etc. Still, you can shade some things. For instance, there's a big debate in Britain right now over optimal ammo size. Some gun buffs think that Britain would have been better off to standardize on 6mm ammo (.276, I believe) instead of 7.62mm ammo (.303, I think). Google it, read the debate, you decide.


Just because it's possible to build tanks doesn't mean you can build tanks. Action, reaction: events must occur that lead your people to believe they need tanks before someone will approve them. Don't use hindsight to make all your decisions. Another example is military aviation: everyone was dabbling with it, but events haven't yet proven its worth (we're actually a few years behind because some important wars that demonstrated the value of aircraft were avoided).


Read the threads:


Britain has an informal alliance with the U.S.


Germany is now under a dictator (a kind of paleo-Nazi).


France is causing everyone trouble by threatening its neighbours (Switzerland, Belgium, Portugal).


Japan and China are on the brink of war.


There's a war raging in the Balkans. Look here (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=434313&page=1&pp=15).


Other nations are doing interesting things. Read the main thread (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=433959&page=1&pp=15).


Be true to the British system, unless you want to RP a major change, in which case the more major the change, the more RP required.We're all here to help, so good luck.

BTW, I'm the Dual Monarchy of Austria and Hungary. <bows>

Can't Guozu Zhuge do that himself? Who needs a nut like Adolf?

True.

I was just trying to pursure a possibility of Hitler, moustache and all, standing in the Forbidden City giving his famous salute. :p

True.

I was just trying to pursure a possibility of Hitler, moustache and all, standing in the Forbidden City giving his famous salute. :pThat's just wrong. :rolleyes:

That's just wrong. :rolleyes:

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/1167/hitlerinchina29eq.png

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/291/hitlerinchina10nx.png

Haha. I still would very much like to acquire Adolf Hitler as a RP character, just for the adventure of it. :)

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/1167/hitlerinchina29eq.png

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/291/hitlerinchina10nx.png

Haha. I still would very much like to acquire Adolf Hitler as a RP character, just for the adventure of it. :)As I said, that's just plain wrong. :p

Hitler didn't invent the blitzkrieg. It was independently invented by a bunch of people (Guderian, Fuller, some Russians) based on an analysis of what went wrong in the trenches from 1914-18.

not just that. he used the Spanish civil war (1936-1939) to get his troops ready, to find new ways to fight wars, and to test new weapons

As I said, that's just plain wrong. :p

Heh, I couldn't resist.

On a serious note, do any of you guys have any suggestions for a Hitler-like figure or something in China? I know I have a new leader, but I'm not sure *how* to transform him into a charimastic and driving force of the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Franklin Roosevelt, Churchill, etc. I'm trying to think up of some characters that will help China modernize and industrialize similiar to what Germany underwent between the failed Weimar Republic, the rise of Nazism, and the powerhouse Germany was between 1939 - 1941 (under Hitler and Nazi direction).

Sharina, I love those immages (especially the first one). :D

Since Hitler is just a painter at the moment, you can have him visiting China to study the Chinese style of painting. After that, he returns to Europe, starts painting in the Chinese style and becomes the father of a new artistic movement that will influence art for the next 100 years.

For your leader, try to make him like Stalin without the purges or like Mao without the Great Leap Forward.

I'd like to take the Empire of Mexico under Emperor Maximillian II. Its all hypothetical after all, and why not let Mexico have some fun? So can I be the Empire of Mexico, I have half of my fact book done as it is.

I was wondering If I can switch From Brazil to Siam? I must tell you first however that due to school I won't be able to post much except on thursday, Friday and Saturday...

Since Hitler is just a painter at the moment, you can have him visiting China to study the Chinese style of painting. After that, he returns to Europe, starts painting in the Chinese style and becomes the father of a new artistic movement that will influence art for the next 100 years.You don't have to have him visit China. There's a growing Chinese community in Vienna due to the large influx of Chinese students into our universities, remember?

I've still got political plans for him, though. But if you want to make him a great artist, I suppose I could go along with that (although I would have to find the names of other members of the occultist Thulli Society if you really want to keep him out of politics).

BTW, Chinese food is all the rage in Vienna this year - especially serving steamed ginger fish with the head on. But we prefer to prepare the rice in the Greek style (pilaf, with slivered almonds). One Italian chef has been making a name for himself substituting risotto for rice in some dishes.

You don't have to have him visit China. There's a growing Chinese community in Vienna due to the large influx of Chinese students into our universities, remember?
Yes, but are there Chinese artists there? I believe most, if not all of the students attend technical universities.

I've still got political plans for him, though. But if you want to make him a great artist, I suppose I could go along with that (although I would have to find the names of other members of the occultist Thulli Society if you really want to keep him out of politics).
If his artistical career is succesfull and we don't have a World War, he will have no reasons to enter politics. But Hitler is not in my care. He's either your's or Sharina's.

BTW, Chinese food is all the rage in Vienna this year - especially serving steamed ginger fish with the head on. But we prefer to prepare the rice in the Greek style (pilaf, with slivered almonds). One Italian chef has been making a name for himself substituting risotto for rice in some dishes.
Actually, the pilaf is a Turkish dish. Or maybe it's not even Turkish, but they introduced it in the Balkans.

I'd like to take the Empire of Mexico under Emperor Maximillian II. Its all hypothetical after all, and why not let Mexico have some fun? So can I be the Empire of Mexico, I have half of my fact book done as it is.There was no Maximillian II; Maximilian I and the Empress Carloata had no children and - more importantly - had no prospect of ever having children (see below).

Beyond that, Maximillian I was the brother of Franz Josef I, and so his children could concievably claim my thone. Sure, the elder Max surrended his royal rights when he left for Mexico, but what if sonny boy decided to reclaim them? I have enough on my hands right now without having to bother with some European rival trying to hand my royal titles to a Mexican monarch. And I've got enough enemies who would do it in a heartbeat, just because I've ticked them off.

No, do it and I'll pay the U.S. to conquer you.

Instead, I have a better idea...

The Mexican Civil War should be raging by now. If you want to go back and RP the first few years (as the dictator Porfirio Díaz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porfirio_Díaz) [President 1876-1880 and 1884-1911] is forced out by a popular revolt following a fradulent election, the one that installed Francisco I. Madero (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_I._Madero) [1911-1913] as President), you can.

Historically, the election in question occurred in October, 1910. The uprising was declared by Madero on November 20th, 1910. Madero fled to San Antonio, Texas, while Pancho Villa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Villa) took the field and defeated forces loyal to Díaz in battle, culminating in the resignation of Díaz on May 25th, 1911.

Madero was a conservative (really, a liberal capitalist). When he named Francisco León de la Barra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_León_de_la_Barra) as interim president and de la Barra began siding with the big landowners on the issue of agrarian reform, Emiliano Zapata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emiliano_Zapata) (who had also helped depose Díaz, only fighting in the South [Pancho Villa rose in the North]) declared him a traitor and led an uprising against him. Zapata was an anarchist and leftist, so this was a pseudo-socialist revolution.

Of course, poor Mexico, as President Díaz himself once quipped, is so far from God and so close to the United States. With support from the American government, Madero was overthrown in a coup on February 13th, 1913 by Victoriano Heurta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoriano_Huerta), one of Díaz's former generals (a "porforista" - Díaz's dictatorship was known as the "Porfiriato"), in league with one of Díaz's nephews. Heurta got into position to topple Madero through a coup because the constant leftist revolts, such as that staged by Pascual Orozco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascual_Orozco) in 1912, left the Army in a position where it had to be trusted (as untrustworthy as it was).

Soon Heurta's harsh dictatorship alienated Washington, and the U.S. turned against him. Villa had taken to the field again after Madero's murder in league with Zapata (although Villa was not a leftist, like Zapata). Venustiano Carranza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venustiano_Carranza), another of Modena's supporters (actually, his former Secretary of War) also rose up against him. Under pressure from all sides, Heurta resigned on July 14th, 1914. Huerta's Foreign Minister, Francisco S. Carvajal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_S._Carvajal), oversaw the transfer of power to Carranza, who subsequently won the election of March 11th, 1917, to become the first President under Mexico's current constitution.

<deep breath>

Now, if you want to establish a monarchy, what you could do is have the hacendados (owners of the haciendas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacienda)) decided to support a monarch somewhere along the line. There are plenty of places this could happen: Díaz could put down the revolt against him, defeating Villa in the North and driving Zapata (who waged guerilla warfare and would therefore be harder to crush) into hiding and low-intensity warfare in the South. Then maybe Díaz decides to defy the United States (which was pressing him for reform, because investors wanted the haciendas broken up so that the peóns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peon) (debt slaves) could be set to work in factories and not bound to the soil) and establishes himself as "dicator for life" (like Santa Anna before him), and then - eventually - crowns himself Emperor of Mexico.

Unfortunately, Díaz was 81 when he was toppled, and Villa (at least in 1911) had help (volunteers and mercenaries) from the U.S., so his victory is unlikely (to say the least).


Modena would never have set himself up as a monarch or even a dictator. But Heurta (nicknamed El Chacal ["The Jackal"]) was enough of an egomaniac that he just might have. Of course, that would mean defeating the Zapatistas in the South, Pancho Villa and Carranza in the North, plus any American force sent into Mexico (most likely via Texas or Veracruz on the Gulf), but that's the fun of it, no?


OK, you want a real Emperor and not some strongman who promotes himself to Emperor? Fine.

When His Imperial Highness Ferdinand Maximilian Joseph, Archduke of Austria, Prince of Hungary and Bohemia gave up his titles and went to Mexico (to become Maximilian I of Mexico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_I_of_Mexico)) on his little adventure with his wife (Her Royal Highness Marie Charlotte Amélie Augustine Victoire Clémentine Léopoldine, Princess of Belgium [a/k/a the Empress Carlota of Mexico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlota_of_Mexico)]), they were very aware that there had been a short-lived Empire of Mexico in 1822-1823, under Agustín de Iturbide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agustín_de_Iturbide), Mexico's "National Liberator" (the man who overthrew Spanish rule), ruling as "Agustín I, Constitutional Emperor of Mexico".

Since Max and Charlotte had no children, they adopted Agustín's grandsons (Agustín de Iturbide y Green (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agustín_de_Iturbide_y_Green) and Salvador de Iturbide y de Marzán [his cousin]) as heirs. The young Agustín was titled "His Highness, Prince of Iturbide" in his capacity as Crown Prince.

Charlotte escaped the overthrow of this so-called "Second Mexican Empire" in 1867 because she was in Europe, seeking assistance for her husband. When news of his death before a firing squad (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Manet_Maximilian.jpg/740px-Manet_Maximilian.jpg) reached her, she collapsed and was declared insane. She was confined at Schloß Miramar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Miramare.jpg) on the Adriatic near Trieste (was the film company named after this place?) and then eventually at the Château de Bouchout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Château_de_Bouchout) in Meise, Belgium, where she died in 1927 (which means that she's still alive in our game!).

(Since I see no reference to her life having been disrupted by the Great War, I suspect she was at Miramar until 1919, when the Hapsburg Empire fell, and then moved to Belgium after the war.)

Agustín was born in Georgetown, Virginia; his father was Ángel de Iturbide y Huarte, second son of Agustín de Iturbide and Alice Green, an American (she died in 1892). As he was just 2 years old when declared Mexico's Crown Prince on September 13, 1865, he was taken back to England by his biological parents in 1867, and from there ended up in America. At the age of majority (18? 21? 1881-1884, or thereabouts), he renounced his title and returned to Mexico to take a commission in the Mexican Army. After criticising Díaz, he was imprisoned for 14 months (in 1890) and then exiled. He became a professor at Georgetown University and died in 1925 (at the age of 62).

In 1913 he would have been 50 years old. Perhaps a group of soldiers, concerned about the worsening anarchy in Mexico, might have offered him the throne? He certainly was the focus of whatever monarchist movement still existed in Mexico (at least in the 1890's), as evidenced by the official web site of "The Imperial House of Mexico (http://www.casaimperial.org/donaugustin.htm)".

(Who would have imagined the WWW to be such a haven for royalists!?!?)

Here's a page devoted to him (http://www.casaimperial.org/donaugustin.htm).

Unfortunately, like his adoptive mother, he seems to have been prone to nervous breakdown - having suffered one in 1891 following his incarceration by Díaz (but then, this was a tragic family; they have a right to nervous breakdowns), so maybe it would be best to respect his wishes and pass him over in the succession. He married an American woman (Maria Louise Kearney), but they had no children, so the line would have to go elsewhere for his heir.

The other heir, Salvador de Iturbide, had a line that continues to this day. He also ended up in Europe after the fall of the Second Empire. As Maximilian's heir, he petitioned Franz Josef I for a pension and then married Gizella Maria Terezia Mikos De Tarrodháza, a Hungarian baroness. The couple lived in Hungary for a while and then moved to Venice, Italy. He died in 1895, leaving three daughters behind him.

His oldest daughter, Doña Maria Josepha Sophia, inherited the right to the Mexican throne upon the death of Agustín de Iturbide y Green in 1925. This is the point at which we can change history...

According to the geneology (http://www.casaimperial.org/genealogy.htm) on the Mexican Imperial web site, her first husband was Johann Nepomuk Adolf Ferdinand Josef Tunkl Von Aschbrunn Und Hohenstadt, son of an Austrian Baron. He was KIA in the Great War (1915, at Onuth) after they had been married for 7 years (they were married in 1908). If she and her husband were to be brought to Mexico or if he were to survive past 1915, they could have had a child that would be Agustín's heir.

Her second marriage - in 1923 - was to a Frenchman (a commoner) named Charles De Carriere; they had no children and died in 1949 "under suspicious circumstances", having been imprisoned by the Roumanian Communists after World War II.

She had two daughters by her first husband, one born in 1909 and another in 1912. The first daughter never married and died in 1997; the second suffered her mother's luck, marrying a Croat commoner in 1938 who was KIA's in 1941 (probably during the Nazi invasion). Her second marriage came in 1943, to Count Maria Gustav Adolf Egon Von Götzen (of Moravia); when he died in Venezuela in 1956, she married an Italian banker (in 1959). Both she and her third husband died in Australia in the 1980's.

Her second husband - the aristocrat - gave her two children. Don Maximiliano Gustav Albrecht Richard Agustin De Götzen - Iturbide is the current hier to the Mexican throne (he is a businessman in Australia, BTW).

So you could have a group of Mexican porforistas and hacendados decide to ask Agustín de Iturbide y Green to take the throne of a Third Mexican Empire; since he had not yet married (he would marry Maria Louise Kearney in 1915), perhaps you could arrange a marriage to the daughter of a prominent supporter for him, so that he could make an heir. Or maybe - and I prefer this, since he had renounced all titles and royal rights before returning to Mexico in the 1880's and in the world of nobility, that means a great deal - maybe you could have him agree to be the Regent for any male child that his cousin (Maria Josepha Sophia), might produce by her Austrian husband, and then grant the lad's sire a commission in the Mexican Army. This would ensure that Baron Johann would survive any European war, allowing you to assume that their next child is a son (born in 1915). At that point, you proclaim the infant Emperor (naming him Agustín, maybe?), under the former Crown Prince Agustín's governance. In fact, if you waited a couple of years to have the Empire restored after an infant boy was already born (although such a boy would probably have his grandfather's name - Eduard Ferdinand), you could have an immediate Regency established. Agustín and Maria Josepha will both obviously live long enough to get the boy close to adulthood (if not, you could name the lad's father, Baron Johann, Regent upon Agustín's death in 1925).Anyway, there are some ideas.

You can find Wikipedia's article on the Mexican Revolution here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Revolution).

I was wondering If I can switch From Brazil to Siam? I must tell you first however that due to school I won't be able to post much except on thursday, Friday and Saturday...That's Warta Endor's call.

Yes, but are there Chinese artists there? I believe most, if not all of the students attend technical universities.There will be merchants selling Chinese art for those Chinese students to put in their flats... As the community grows, I would imagine that it will be comprised of more than just students (remember, I'm estimating 50,000 by 1920).

Hey does anyone have AIM, I need some help on the way the British Government works before I start rping thanks its
Aim- oonoitzelkinz

Hey does anyone have AIM, I need some help on the way the British Government works before I start rping thanks its
Aim- oonoitzelkinzLook here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom#Government_and_Politics).

Google is your friend. Wikipedia is useful, too.

The King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (Ireland hasn't been divided yet) and Emperor of India (still under British rule) is George V. His father, Edward VII, died on May 6th, 1910, so HRH has been King for 3 years.

The King has become more a symbolic ruler than anything else, although it is common for PM's to seek his counsel. Instead, Parliament is the principal legal authority over the Empire.

There are two chambers, or houses, in Parliament: Commons (elected) and Lords (heriditary).

In 1913, the two great parties were the Liberals (led by Herbert Henry Asquith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Henry_Asquith)) and the Conservatives (or "Tories", led by Andrew Bonar Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Bonar_Law) in the Commons and Henry Petty-Fitzmaurice, 5th Marquess of Lansdowne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Petty-Fitzmaurice%2C_5th_Marquess_of_Lansdowne) in the House of Lords). In those days there was no concept of a "party leader" (that would not come until the 20's). But Andrew Bonar Law was a compromise candidate between supporters of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austen_Chamberlain, son of the former Lord Mayor of Birmingham (and powerful Conservative politician) Joseph Chamberlain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Chamberlain), who had withdrawn from politics in 1906, and Walter Long (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Long%2C_1st_Viscount_Long), who was affiliated with the Unionists (the continuing Irish question plaguing British politics throughout the period, dividing both parties deeply; those prepared to grant Ireland her independence were called the Nationalists [see below]).

Asquith's position was delicate. Two hung elections in 1910 left both parties in a virtual deadlock. Just as the Conservatives wooed Unionists, the Liberals wooed Irish Nationalists, and with them formed a narrow (and very stormy) majority. This state of affairs continued until the Great War, when a number of Liberals joined the Conservatives in a so-called War Cabinet.

Read the article on Asquith for more details. It discusses the Parliament Act of 1911 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_Act_1911) (which limited the power of the Lords) and the Third Irish Home Rule Bill (of 1914) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_Act_1911) (which has not been passed yet - Home Rule meant creating an Irish government within the general government of the U.K. - a step toward independence in the eyes of the Nationalists and thus bitterly opposed by the Unionists).

I hope this helps.

It does quite a bit thanks! :) one last question lol do I currently have a prime minister yet I ask this because there was someone before me so I wouldn't want to suddenly change leaders

It does quite a bit thanks! :) one last question lol do I currently have a prime minister yet I ask this because there was someone before me so I wouldn't want to suddenly change leadersAsquith, just like in the article.

If you have a printer, print the four threads:

Main Thread RP (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=433959&page=44&pp=15)
Main Thread OOC (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9297480#post9297480)
Balkan Wars RP (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9566556#post9566556)
Balkan Wars OOC (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=434316&page=1&pp=15)

And maybe:

Factbook (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=433504&page=1&pp=15)

I find printouts easier to read and review. I'll be dumping everything before I go on vacation next week.

I would be tempted to TG Independent Hitmen and ask him to delete GB's factbook thread after you've reposted the contents under your own signon, so that you can edit the factbook going forward.

You should read the threads to see what other people have done that is different. For example, France recently threatened to invade Portugal and is currently Europe's pariah state. Manfred von Richthofen murdered the Kaiser (although this is just suspected - only I [the Dual Monarchy] have really gotten well into this, and I still can't prove it) and is now running Germany as a paleo-Nazi dictatorship. Serbia, Roumania, and Turkey are invading Bulgaria as we speak. Japan is preparing to invade China. The U.S. is your ally, although only informally. Most of the traditional alliances (Britain-France-Russia-Serbia, Germany-Austria and Hungary-Italy-Roumania) have fallen apart, and new ones are being forged and reforged (Spain-Italy-Austria and Hungary[-Greece?[-Russia?]], Austria and Hungary-China, Great Britain-United States, Japan-Siam, Serbia-Roumania[-Turkey?]).

This makes for a very dangerous world.

Ok I'm really sorry, but I don't think I can play up to Britain as some other players can and I'm going to have to put it up again. I'm sorry bout all of this, the government part is confusing me and it's history is long but interesting but I'm afraid I don't have the time.

Though I would understand if you deny it can I switch to Russia instead, it would be alot easier for me since it is ruled by the Czar. Thank's and again I understand if you would rather not have me play Russia.

This is all role-play correct? So...whose to say that Maximilian was able to destroy the rebel nationilist forces that would have, historiclly overthrown him, yet did not...*Gasp!* I mean common. Whats it going to hurt if theres an Empire of mexico? I mean sure I planned on having a small but very well equiped army, trade agreements, and plans for conquering South America...but...please?

Ok I'm really sorry, but I don't think I can play up to Britain as some other players can and I'm going to have to put it up again. I'm sorry bout all of this, the government part is confusing me and it's history is long but interesting but I'm afraid I don't have the time.

Though I would understand if you deny it can I switch to Russia instead, it would be alot easier for me since it is ruled by the Czar. Thank's and again I understand if you would rather not have me play Russia.If you do switch, make sure that you read the RP threads and continue where the previous Russian player left off...

Personally, I don't see what's so hard about Britain. What country do you hail from in RL?

I may get one or two more posts in, but this is to let you all know that I'm leaving for vacation until 9/12/2005.

Here's what you can assume that I'm doing (my Balkan Wars stuff is handled in that thread). Italy and I have been working on some technology sharing. I'll let him post that; you can assume that he has my support (unless I come back to find he did something really weird). ;)


China also has my full support with regards to technology, etc.


We can RP the Japanese visit to Vienna when I get back.


Wilhelm Hohenzollern will leave Munich for Bavaria. He will write a letter informing von Richthofen that he can not accept his offer of a "satrapy". I will post his next move when I return.


The Bavarian royal family will continue to support von Richthofen (I mean, what choice do they have?).


The Dual Monarchy will cooperate fully in the investigation of the Petrograd attack. I'll respond to any discoveries by the Russians when I get back.


The Serbian terrorist organisations will be carefully watched, as will the Socialists.


I expect that the Black Hand will continue to plan the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. If Serbia does nothing to stop the plot, the attempt will occur when and where it did historically (Sarajevo, on June 28th, 1914 - St. Vitus' Day [and also Franz and Sophie's 14th wedding anniversary, BTW]). Sophie will also be pregnant at the time.

I, and I alone, reserve the right to determine the outcome of the attempt. If Serbia is hindering it, they should post how; if they're aiding it, they should post how. If anybody else is assisting, they should post how.


I reserve the right to modify the force structure of the k.u.k. military based on events in my absence, such as the use of aircraft, armoured cars, etc.


My troops in Palestine will participate in any attempt to retake Mecca on behalf of the Sharrif of Mecca. The Christian element of the Bosnian battalion at Haifa will be sent home and Muslim volunteers recruited among the remaining 4 Bosnian regiments to produce an all-Muslim force so that I will not defile the Hejaz by my presence. If I have to brevet a lower-ranking officer or NCO to the rank needed to run the unit, I will.

The Andromedan may assume that I am doing anything realistic to support him in the Middle East (defined as Syria, Palestine, Assyria/Kurdistan, Mespotamia, and the Hejaz) except attack troops of another European nation (I will train his troops to conduct such attacks, if needed). He may buy reasonable numbers (12-20) of Austro-Daimler 1905/06 armoured cars (in my absence, I will let Voxio decide what is "reasonable", since he knows my industrial plans for Austro-Daimler).

I will also, starting in 1913, begin deploying motorcycle units to Palestine (no more than 50 men total) and the surrounding territories as an experiment (per my earlier RP).

If the Sharrif of Mecca has a personal guard, I will supply it with machine guns and pack artillery, and maybe a few motorcycles and an armoured car or two.

Ideally, I would like a player (other than The Andromedan) to RP the Sharrif for me. I'll supprot him in his personal war against the House of Saud.I think that's pretty much it. If I think of anything else, I will add it this evening before I go.

This is all role-play correct? So...whose to say that Maximilian was able to destroy the rebel nationilist forces that would have, historiclly overthrown him, yet did not...*Gasp!* I mean common. Whats it going to hurt if theres an Empire of mexico? I mean sure I planned on having a small but very well equiped army, trade agreements, and plans for conquering South America...but...please?Nothing. I'm just saying that one of the premises of the game is that you start in 1910 with what actually existed. Otherwise, it turns into chaos.

I mean, consider what would have happened if the French had won at Puebla on El Cinco de Mayo, instead of losing. Now the U.S. government under Andrew Johnson and U.S. Grant goes in and invades Mexico (which it threatened to do). Since Max survived, this means that the U.S. must have been defeated, probably with the help of the Second French Empire. Now the American player has to throw out his history and start all over again.

And that's just for starters. If the French beat America, they must've been a lot tougher than was actually the case. Did they beat Prussia in the Franco-Prussian War, keeping Germany from becoming united? And did Austria then invade a weakened Prussia to take back the land and titles that it lost in 1866? What did Russia do when that happened? Did they fight the Austrians and French on the Prussian side? Maybe they got defeated and then never invaded Turkey in 1877 to liberate Bulgaria and Serbia, so the Hapsburgs never ended up controlling Bosnia and the Sanjak, nor did the Greeks ever gain their independence, or Italy become united (because they were defeated by the Hapsburgs), or...

See how quickly it goes out of control? Call it the Butterfly Effect... ;)

I'll leave this up to the other mods (Warta Endor and Relatively Liberty). I just don't like it. I mean, there are things I'd like to change about the history of the Dual Monarchy. H_ll, there are things Serbia would like to change about my history. Turkey, too. But we start in 1910 with what we have.

I've done your research for you and given you a path to a Mexican Empire (actually, three of them). What's wrong with the suggestions I've made? You can overthrow Díaz, Modena, and then Heurta, and have Agustín take power as the Regent for his cousin's infant child. Instant Empire!

Why won't that work? The only answer I can think of is that you want to undo the last 50 years worth of American history and put the U.S. at an instant disadvantage. Well, I'd like to have Austria win the Battle of Sadowa and have Franz Josef still be Holy Roman Emperor, and leave the German player with only Prussia, as in the scenario above. It's just RP, so why can't I do that?

I've given my opinion. I don't see why a new Third Mexican Empire, starting right now in 1913, with Maximilian's heirs, is a problem. That gives you your empire, in the here and now.

What do you other guys think?

America, I'm only fifteen haven't really even got into british history in school :p but yea I will, thanks for letting me stay

Hello,

If possible, I would like to play as the Irish Nationalist movements. I suppose with the founding of the Irish Volunteers next year, the Irish will really be coming into play.

Regards,

America, I'm only fifteen haven't really even got into british history in school :p but yea I will, thanks for letting me stayOK, I think Britain is easy. Yeah, being the Tsar looks easy, but the politics of Russia (meaning the ongoing power struggles) are a nightmare.

Britain:Parliament has two houses (just like Congress): the House of Lords and the House of Commons. Lords are not elected; its made up of nobility ("the peerage") and clergy (there's no separation of Church and State in the U.K.). Commons are elected. The King can call for elections whenever he wants, but he only does what the Prime Minister asks him to do. He's basically a figurehead; in this era he was consulted for his opinion, but the Prime Minister was the real power.

The PM is elected by the party with the greatest number of seats in the Commons (just like the Speaker of the House in America). In GB, what we call "Congressional districts" are called "ridings". A man or woman "stands" for the Commons (rather than "running" for Congress). Thing is, the PM must maintain his support. Any vote in the Commons can be a "vote of confidence"; if a PM loses such a vote, he must resign and a new PM is picked.

If no PM can win the Commons' "confidence", it's called a "hung Parliament" and the King calls new elections.

Liberals and Conservatives were both pretty conservative by today's standards. The big issue of the day was Irish independence. Unionists wanted to keep Ireland British, Nationalists wanted independence, "Home Rule" (semi-autonomy) was a compromise. Ireland rebelled in WWI (1916) using weapons smuggled in by Germany. Think of Ireland as being GB's West Bank and the Irish as being GB's Palestinians.

What's easy about this is that you can use shifts in party balance to change your policies. Right now the Liberals are in power under Asquith. If the Conservatives gained the upper hand, Chamberlain (not the WWII-era guy, but his brother) would be PM.

Lords could only slow legislation they didn't like, setting it back for a year.

So all you have to do is pretend you're America, but have the PM be the man in charge. Use Wikipedia to kill your Kings and Queens on schedule, hold elections every so often, and bring out a new PM when you want.

Bigger issues for Britain: South African Boer (Dutch) unrest (there was a revolt there in 1900), India (consisting of modern India and Pakistan) wanting its independence, with Afghan unrest in the north. And Ireland. Always Ireland.

Britain has the world's greatest navy; it's Empire covers one-third of the planet. The British Army is small but of high quality (it's a volunteer force). Its colonial army is as good as most mainstream European armies. But GB's biggest problem is that it lacks the manpower to win a continental war on its own, and its far-flung colonial possessions make it a target for nations like Japan.

GB has a strong commercial and industrial economy, and its people are loyal, making it very stable politically. In our game, its allies are the United States and Russia (especially the U.S.).Russia:Here the last guy made some changes.

Tsar Nicholas II has decided to win the hearts of the peasants with land reform and educational reform. His aristocrats are pissed at him and almost in rebellion, so he has dissolved the legislature (Duma) and overturned the 1905 Constitution.

So the Tsar's closest men and best supporters are military men from peasant stock. Eventually, he'll become like Stalin if he continues going this way, but without being quite as paranoid (at least we hope).

Lenin is dead. Trotsky is dead. Lenin's wife, Nadezhda (N.K.) Krupskaya runs the Bolsheviks. She was very smart, and she has vowed vengeance forthr murder of her husband by the Tsar. She's in exile in my capitol (Vienna), and under surveillance. The other Socialist party, the Mensheviks, are run by Julius Martov. He's in Brussels.

In Spring on 1912, the Tsar was wounded by assassins on the train station platform in Petrograd (St. Petersburg, the capitol [Moscow was not the capitol then]). He is still weak and recovering slowly. At this hour, no one knows who the assassins were (this is something you will get to decide).

His wife, Alexandra, is German. Their son, Nicholas, has hemophilia (he bleeds easily - which makes him very sickly). Alexandra believes that the holy man Rasputin has healing powers that can help young Nicholas. Rasputin and Alexandra are both widely hated.

The army is under Grand Duke Nicholas. He doesn't like Alexandra either. He's an ultra-nationalist.

Russia is allied with China and Japan, but fears Japan. Russia knows that Japan is planning to invade China.

Tsar Nicholas was the cousin of the German Kaiser Wilhelm II, who was murdered by Manfred von Richthofen (the Red Baron) in 1911. He knows that his cousin, whom he cared for deeply, was murdered, and this does not please him. He is also concerned that Germany is planning to go to war with Russia.

Russia wants to expand into the Middle East; it also wants to gain access to the Mediterranean through Turkey. Russia is concerned about the fate of the South Slavs (Serbia, Montenegro, and Bulgaria) and about the Armenians.

The Russian Army is huge but of mediocre quality. It has begun experiments with aircraft and armoured cars (tanks don't exist). Transportation and industrialisation are problems for Russia, but its power is growing.

Russian morale is also a problem. A bad run of battlefield defeats would probably be enough to cause a revolution.Anyway, those are your choices...

Tell us who you'd rather have.

Hello,

If possible, I would like to play as the Irish Nationalist movements. I suppose with the founding of the Irish Volunteers next year, the Irish will really be coming into play.

Regards,I approve. What say ye, other mods?

At this time, Narodna I have very little time to type an entire three of four full detailed posts about how the son of Maximilian stays in power in Mexico. SO, out of the kindness of your heart, could you please, please allow me to simply start out with just introducing the ruling Emperor of Mexico as Maximilian II and I will mention in my factbook as summery of the history you mentioned in your telegram to me. Will that suffice?

I'll leave that to the other mods. I also think the U.S. player needs to be consullted to see if he accepts the idea that America was crushed by Louis Napoleon III and France, c. 1866 or 1867 - including a decision as to which U.S. territories may have been taken from him and given to Mexico after that defeat.

See you all in a week.

~~~~~~~~~~

As a compromise, why don't you assume that Díaz was overthrown by monarchists in 1890 (the year that Agustín was thrown into prison; this would be instead of his incarceration) and that, in the wake of the Revolution, Agustín was persuaded to take the throne of Mexico as Agustín II, Emperor of Mexico. He then married a hacendado's eligible daughter, had a son he named Maximillian (who is now a Crown Prince of maybe 17-18 years). The American Government, more concerned with Spain that Mexico, ignored the new nation.

But Agustín (following in the footsteps of Japan and China) undertook a programme of modernisation, and now, 20+ years later, has turned Mexico into a major power. At 50, Agustín is in his prime. He will die in 1925, at which point his son will be crowned Maximilian II.

You will still need to negotiate with the U.S. regarding Mexico's current strength, because America would not have sat and twiddled its thumbs while a nation strong enough to threaten its existance grew right underneath its nose.

America is The Atlantian islands. TG him.

But I really don't want a Hapsburg heir in Mexico City. If you do that, I am serious about having to ally with the U.S. and pursue your destruction. I simply can not afford any rival claimants to my lands.

Oh, and there are Brasilian and Argentine players, so don't talk too loudly about conquering all of Latin America...

One last post on the way out the door...

I will accept the preservation of the Second Mexican Empire retroactive to 1867 under these conditions: America (The Atlantean islands) agrees to it.


Mexico (Thrashia) and America (The Atlantean islands) agree to a brief history of Mexican-American relations since 1867. This should answer these questions:


Did they fight any more wars? When? For how long? Who won?


Did Mexico sell Tuscon and environs (the Gadsen Purchase) to the U,S. to complete the path of the Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe Railroad (AT&SF) to Southern California? If not, how has this impacted the economic developement of the San Fernando Valley (hint - I would take longer to ship agricultural goods north to San Francisco, then east via Denver on the Union Pacific line).


Did Mexico build a navy? When? How big? What did America do in reponse?


Great Britain (-), France (-), and Japan (Warta Endor) all approve this history.


Mexico must not be an industrial superpower in 1913; it can be slightly better off. The hacendadas are still powerful, and want the péons tied to the land. This will make it hard for industrialists to get their hands on urban labour.


Mexico must not have a conscript army in 1913 - only volunteers (this is to keep Mexico from mobilising 1,500,000 men and invading the U.S. in 1913, since the U.S. army is smaller than the Bulgarian army). Mexico may have a small National Guard on par with America's National Guard and State Militias, but nothing bigger.


Finally - and this is absolutely non-negotiable - Maximilian and Charlotte had no children. When Maximilian died (before 1900 - you pick the date and cause of death), he was succeeded by his adoptive son, Agustín de Iturbide y Green, Prince of Iturbide, who was crowned as Emperor Agustín II of Mexico.

Agustín may have as many sons as you like, none older tha 30. The eldest may be named Maximilian, and you may crown him Maximilian II in 1912 or 1913. But he is not and can not be the son of Maximilian I - he is Maximilian's adoptive grandson, whatever his name, and his familiy name is Iturbide, not Hapsburg. He must have no possible claim to the thrones of Austria and Hungary.If you do those things, I will approve. What say you other mods?

Great Britain (-), France (-), and Japan (Warta Endor) all approve this history.
I know I'm just keeping the seat warm for the next player, but I approve. If I remember well, Maximilian was sent by Napoleon III. Maybe now France will finally find an ally in this cruel world.

One last post on the way out the door...
I bet your wife is dragging you away from the computer right now. :D

Bye. Have fun! And come back at least two shades darker!

I know I'm just keeping the seat warm for the next player, but I approve. If I remember well, Maximilian was sent by Napoleon III. Maybe now France will finally find an ally in this cruel world.Well, the important thing is that we don't screw the U.S. player retroactively - or me, for that matter.

So I'm adamant about American permission and my insistence that Maximillian II be one of Agustín I's descendants and only an adoptive (and not a blood) heir of Maximilian I (IOW, an Iturbide and not a proper Hapsburg).

H_ll, Thrashia can call him Maximillian de Iturbide y Hapsburg or Iturbide-Hapsburg or whatever, but that Iturbide better be in there, because I will not let him have a true Hapsburg heir.

Norodna, you did an awesome job! Thanks!

I agree that an "Imperial Mexico" is...interesting. As NO said, I think it is pretty crucial to contact the US player. If the US approves, I've no problem with an Imperial Mexico.

I simply love the idea of a Zionist movement, an Irish Nationalist movement etc. I also approve of a player RPing Siam. Remeber, I've a little to say there ;)

But again about the time scale. If it's 1912/13 my entire mobilization plan, Hirhohito's ascension to the throne etc. is ruined, FUBAR. I'll make my important dates list here as if we're in 1915 as you propose:

January 1910-Emperor Mutsuhito makes his "United Asia under Japanesae Guidence" speech. Start of massive military buildup.
Early 1911-Day of Tears, assasination of the Emperor and the Crown Prince.
Late 1911/early 1912-First Wave of mobilization finished. Trooops trained and stationed.
Early 1913-Mission to Siam. Alliance made and first troops arrive.
Late 1913-Second Round of Military Buildup starts.
Mid 1914-Extra draft due to rising possibility of war with China. (I'll come back to that later)
Early 1915-Second Round of Buildup Finished.

As you see, very, very, very cramped and pretty unrealistic. Or I have to change my stuff or time has to be adjusted.

As to China, Sharina, be warned!

I'm planning to start my attack tomorrow. If you have objections, something to say or something, post it here and I'll put a hold on stuff.

My plan is (as I said earlier) as following:

-405000 men cross the Korean/Liaoning-Chinese Border after a three hour artillery bombardment, starting at 2200 hours. They'll advance with high speed and they will mainly fight in nighttime. One of the main objectives is complete control of Manchuria and linking up with the forces in Bejing-Tsientin area.
-70000 highly trained men land near Tsientin with as ulimate objective Bejing. Capture and hold it untill relieved. Or die, it's that simple.
-The First Imperial Division and the First Brigade of the Second Imperial Division (total 15000 men) will land in Shanghai, kill, destroy, burn etc. and retreat before daybreak. A succesfull retreat is more important than a totally destroyed Shanghai.
-160000 men will land near Foochow, 35000 men on Hainan. They will simply capture as much land as possible before a peace treaty is signed.

The 650000 men which are being trained will all be stationed in Korea and the occupied territories in Manchuria once they're training is complete for 85%. They will finish training there.

The navy will have to control the Seas around Japan and the Chinese coast. Destroyers will regulary bombard small fishing villages etc. to spread confusion and fear. Ofcourse the task of bringing supplies and reinforcements. to Tsientin, Hainan and Foochow is a crucial objective.

Got to go now. My mom is pissed that I'm still up at one in the night :rolleyes:

Sorry about my absence.

Thankyou Narodna, I have already TG'd him and will be expecting an answer within a day or two.

Thankyou Narodna, I have already TG'd him and will be expecting an answer within a day or two.It occurs to be that I have not made crystal clear the reasons for my opposition to Maximilian II being the biological heir of Maximilian I.

Look at this: Franz II (b. 1768, r. 1792-1835, d. 1835)


Marie-Louise


Ferdinand I (b. 1793, r.1835-1848, a. 1848, d. 1875)


Maria Leopoldina


Maria Clementina


Marie Caroline


Franz Karl (b. 1802, a. 1848, d. 1878)


Franz Josef I (b. 1830, r. 1848-1916, d. 1916)


Rudolf (b. 1858, d. 1889)


Sophie


Gisela


Marie-Valerie


Maximilian I (b. 1832, a. 1863, d. 1867)


Karl Ludwig (b. 1833, d. 1896)


Franz Ferdinand (b. 1863, d. 1914)


Otto Franz(b. 1865, d. 1906)


Karl I (b. 1887, r.1916-1918, a. 1918, d. 1922)


Maximilian (b. 1895, d. 1952)


Ferdinand Karl (b. 1868, d. 1915).


Margarete Sophie


Maria AnnaThe names in blue are those who either inherited the Hapsburg thrones (bolded) or could have done so (non-bolded). As you can see, from Franz II, the Hapsburg thrones passed to his oldest son Ferdinand I (in 1835). When Ferdinand I abdicated in 1848 without issue, the thrones went to his brother Franz Karls' line.

Franz Karl did not accept the throne upon his brother's abdication, passing it instead to his oldest son, Franz Josef I. In 1913, Franz Josef I is still in power.

But Franz Josef's only son committed suicide in 1889. With Maximilian of Mexico dead without issue, the Hapsburg holdings passed to Karl Ludwig's line. Karl Ludwig died in 1896, but he left two sons and two grandsons behind hin, with Franz Ferdinand leading the list.

Now let's assume that Maximilian lived and produced biological issue, who then inherited the throne of Mexico: Franz II (b. 1768, r. 1792-1835, d. 1835)


Marie-Louise


Ferdinand I (b. 1793, r.1835-1848, a. 1848, d. 1875)


Maria Leopoldina


Maria Clementina


Marie Caroline


Franz Karl (b. 1802, a. 1848, d. 1878)


Franz Josef I (b. 1830, r. 1848-1916, d. 1916)


Rudolf (b. 1858, d. 1889)


Sophie


Gisela


Marie-Valerie


Maximilian I (b. 1832, a. 1863, d. ????)


Maximilian II (b. ????, r. 1916-)


Karl Ludwig (b. 1833, d. 1896)


Franz Ferdinand (b. 1863)


Otto Franz(b. 1865, d. 1906)


Karl (b. 1887)


Maximilian (b. 1895)


Ferdinand Karl (b. 1868).


Margarete Sophie


Maria AnnaWhen Franz Josef I dies without surviving issue, the Hapsburg thrones and possessions pass to Maximilian's sons rather than Karl Ludwig's, beginning with Maximillian II. Karl Ludwig's sons only inherit the Hapsburg thrones if Maximillian's line dies out!

IOW, If Mexico is allowed to have a living biological heir to Maximilian I, then when Franz Josef I dies in 1916, I must resign from the game and hand control of the the Dual Monarchy to Thrashia, since he will from that moment on be legally entitled to possession of my country.

I don't see why Trashia should be allowed to walk into this game over a month after its start and be allowed to take my country away from me against my will, without every having to RP a single g_dd_mn_d thing.

Umm...I'm not trying to take your country from you, nor am I trying to kick your from the game. I was tied up in other rps so was not able to take part in this rp when it first started out. I agree completely with the line of history you made, I will have Agustín II as emperor and his sons I may name Maximilian, and since hes not related by blood to Maximilian I then there is no threat to the Austria-Hungarian throne. So how is that a problem? I remain i Mexico....you continue on ruling Austria-Hungary.....and we're all happy....

Another point. Mexico had a pretty fine army in the 1800s before its defeat by america. And since I am having the Empire of Mexico exist, its military tradition will also carry on. I would wish for an alliance or non-agression pact with America. Thus I wish for a simple standing army of under 500,000 men. The rifle in which my army is outfitted with is a modernized copy of the German Mauser model 1884 with a clip of four rounds instead of five like the Mauser used by the germans in 1914. I also plan on having something close to 200 old horse drawn Gatling Guns, with 15-30 highly expensive Maxim Machine guns, for heavy weaponry. Other than that I will be having Lancers, and maybe even a force of axe-men or pikemen to be that mundane.

In the way of Artillery I would like to use a small field gun, most likely a copy of the French 75, once the french unveiled it in the Great War, almost all other major nations copied the form, so it shouldn't be hard for me to have close to a few hundred.

As to a navy I thought to have under 47 vessels over all. A small token navy in the Gulf cooperating with American naval ships, and a little bigger force patrolling the Mexican west coast. Mostly it would be made of Dreadnoughts, with maybe 3 or 4 old-aged Lion-class battle cruisers. A few smaller cruisers as well, so the final amount comes to 47 vessels overall.

I've already written up a fact book page...so I am simply awaiting the approval of America and I will be able to exist. And once again I will assure you Narodna, I have no aims to taking the Austria-Hungarian throne from you.

OOC:

Warta Endor...

I just got back from my Labor's Day weekend vacation. I'll be able to post counter-attacks and such after you post your stuff tonight. :)


EDIT:

I just thought of something. I'm not sure if this Sino-Japan War will add to the confusion already there with the Balkan Wars?

Currently, the Balkan Wars are 1912 - 1913'ish, and we've already "advanced" to 1915 or so. Should we wait until the Balkan Wars finish? Maybe that'll let everybody take stock of their nations and situation after the Balkan Wars, especially Russia, Dual Monarchy, Greece, Serbia, etc.

Please share your thoughts on this. :)

I would like to join.
What nations are still available?

I believe Russia and Great Britan are open. A lot of other countries are open too. You can even RP a faction (like the zionists, who have been taken BTW) or groups like the Irish Independance fighters (who have also been taken, but I do not know by who). You could take a country like South Africa, but in that case you will be "under the wing" of Great Britain (don't know if it's an english expression but who cares :p).

As too Sharina, I think that's a great plan. It will allow me to pay more attention to homework (the only thing I have to do is checking stuuf regulary). I got my first series of tests coming up, TWO WEEKS INTO SCHOOL! :eek: *those teachers are nuts*

It wil also let Russia etc. get some more experience, which they'll need against the invincible Japanese Armies ;)

Warta Endor, since you seem to be the head of this RPG, could you send me your (if you have it) MSN IM address or e-mail.
I want to ask you a few things(real-time) and offer a few ideas I've got.
Telegram either to my nation.

Hmmm, the zionists look intresting. How would i rp that though? When is it a get a state, do i have my group where, etc.

I claim Great Britian. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!!!!

Ok. I claim Russia. Me. I claim it. Firsties.
Everyone stay away!

I Live! Thanks to The Atlantic isles (hope I spelled that right) I am now able to exist as the Empire of Mexico. I will be following along the history line that Narodna wrote up, and I will be posting my FactBook entry very soon.

See you in the rps.

Ok. I claim Russia. Me. I claim it. Firsties.
Everyone stay away!
Right, remember that Lenin and Trotsky are dead and the Czar is badly hurt from an assassination attempt.

ooc. All accepted. Start working on your factbooks etc. and be realistic. Search for things on google and wikipedia or otherwise ask one of us (Norodna Odbrana is a brilliant historian, tech specialist etc. He'll be glad to help when he's back from a holiday).

And Russia, don't forget the important memo Japan has send to you ;)

Ok, now i just have to draw up invashon plans for Mexico...errr i mean...

actuly, i think, if i sent them there quietly from the start, i could invade Great Britian.

Ok yeah i just woke up and i still need some sleep


i need a way to kill off my curent King...

Here's a Bump to save the thread from the dark clutches of neglect.

Here's a Bump to save the thread from the dark clutches of neglect.
If you want to fight neglect, do something about Bulgaria, please.

*Has a coughing fit* Invade Mexico huh? (lol...sorta) Right now we have to decisively settle things going on in the Balkans.

Its my opinion to do the following:
1) Balkan's War is over, declare a victory based on the number of victories; no sort of repremands or payment from the loser to the victor.
2) Determine as soon as possible after that the current time period; 1914 or 1915?
3) If at all possible move to a new forum board, NS is kinda crowded, like invisionfree.com, really good boards there.
4) Possibly get a little more detailed and accurate map of the world (no offense to the maker of the current one)

3) If at all possible move to a new forum board, NS is kinda crowded, like invisionfree.com, really good boards there.

Actually, moving our RP's and such to invisionfree.com *WILL* kill this RP project, because it needs to stay in mainstream NS. For us to gain new members and keep people reading our RP's we *MUST* stay in NS. I speak from experience, it has happened to more than 3 RP projects that I have participated in.

Once you move to invisionfree.com, it will be quite difficult, if not impossible, for the RP project to fully recover. Thus, I will oppose any move to invisionfree.com or any off-site forums.

Alright then, we just have to kick-in and muscle down.

I have been in RPGs that didn't collapse due to moving them. Plus, it lets us keep the die-hard players. We cull the weak. ;)
Come on. Would any of you stop playing just because it wasn't RPed on the NS forum?
We just keep the recruitment thread here, and have a whole other forum to RP in.
Plus, new players(like me) are COMPLETELY confused. There are more than 40 pages of RPing to read through, and we can't be expected to read them all. So we end up not knowing the status of the RPG, and that makes noobs quit.
With a seperate forum, we can have a thread for each occurence.

I have been in RPGs that didn't collapse due to moving them. Plus, it lets us keep the die-hard players. We cull the weak. ;)
Come on. Would any of you stop playing just because it wasn't RPed on the NS forum?
We just keep the recruitment thread here, and have a whole other forum to RP in.
Plus, new players(like me) are COMPLETELY confused. There are more than 40 pages of RPing to read through, and we can't be expected to read them all. So we end up not knowing the status of the RPG, and that makes noobs quit.
With a seperate forum, we can have a thread for each occurence.
I'd keep playing, but we'd lose a lot of people [seen it happen]. Besides, the RP is moving so slow at this point that it wont be necessary for a while.

yep, after NO gets back and we get done with the BW stuff it can/will speed up a bit.

i think that Spain is going to get pissed at the USA and try and get the Phillys back and mabye Cuba.

I must apologize to the participants of this RP, as I must quit. I realize now that I made a short-sighted decision joining this; not only am I in another RP, I have just started school.

Thank you, and good luck.

yep, after NO gets back and we get done with the BW stuff it can/will speed up a bit.

i think that Spain is going to get pissed at the USA and try and get the Phillys back and mabye Cuba.

If you divert the attention of the US you'll have one friend in the attempt ;)

Hmmm, the zionists look intresting. How would i rp that though? When is it a get a state, do i have my group where, etc.Spooty had claimed the Zionists, too. We need to resolve that (ignore this if it's already been resolved).

What? Who?

It doesn't look like Spooty is RPing much. Take it from me, US Liberals will RP a lot. He is always very active, and is a good RPer.
This Spooty sounds too spooty.
And it doesn't look like he ever did anything.
In the interest of moving the RPG along, let US Libs have the faction.
Spooty-> :eek: :mp5: <-US Liberals :cool: <-me

It doesn't look like Spooty is RPing much. Take it from me, US Liberals will RP a lot. He is always very active, and is a good RPer.
This Spooty sounds too spooty.
And it doesn't look like he ever did anything.
In the interest of moving the RPG along, let US Libs have the faction.
Spooty-> :eek: :mp5: <-US Liberals :cool: <-me

Hmm... I'll have to see examples of US Libs RP'ing.

Indeed, you got any proof for the great RPing?

I am calling an end to the Balkan Wars.

I do so with some hesitation, because I really don’t want to cave in to the idea that we need to end the Balkan Wars for the sake of the players who are not involved. Implicit in this belief is the notion that regional wars are to be avoided in preference to global wars.

Given the natural belligerence of most NS RP’ers, I expect to see a war in the Age of Imperialism thread every half dozen years or so. If all of those conflicts must be global wars, that means that the 20th Century will see twelve or thirteen global wars. In light of the devastation wrought by the two World Wars of the RL 20th Century, that means that the planet will be uninhabitable dust by the 1950’s… ;)

Players need to be tolerant of regional wars, and not expect that they will either be suppressed for the sake of the rest of the Age of Imperialism community nor escalate into global conflagrations so that we can all partake of the fun.

OTOH, players who partake of global wars need to get their act together and RP them with haste.

As for the outcome of the Balkan Wars, check their OOC thread.

It doesn't look like Spooty is RPing much. Take it from me, US Liberals will RP a lot. He is always very active, and is a good RPer.
This Spooty sounds too spooty.
And it doesn't look like he ever did anything.
In the interest of moving the RPG along, let US Libs have the faction.
Spooty-> :eek: :mp5: <-US Liberals :cool: <-meHe just joined last week. Sharina, do I have the right player? He's the WZO in E20 as well...

<Looks back at Post #412>

Yeah, that's him, Spooty. He just joined last week, as I was leaving for vacation.

I'm not gonna make this call; I'll defer to WE...

If Great Britain is still open, I would like to take them. I am an active RPer, with decent skills.

1st page says its open, damn i was hoping for a France next...

We've got several claimants (for the British Empire).

Eturnus Lumen claimed it and then dropped it (I think) in Post #448 (about a week ago). Then somebody called Conservative Allies claimed it in Post #472 (about 5 days ago), although he's a bit confused. ;)

I claim Great Britian. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!!!!George V dresses in drag?!?!?

Even in Vienna, we're not that weird...

Again, I'll let WE sort this out.

Kroanda, why don't you TG Conservative Allies and see if he's serious?

Wonderful... I make a factbook, then check back, and sombody else got it... damn.

1st page says its open, damn i was hoping for a France next...
Hey, France is not uncontrolled. I'm only a proxy, but since taking it over I've posted as France more often than you posted as Spain. The fact that nobody wants to take it doesn't mean France is an 'inert' state.

i know, anyway

mabey Spain likes siting there industryalising(sp?) and building up a navy.