NationStates Jolt Archive

I know that this isn’t exactly an international incident, but most of the issues shaping it are played out over here, I think.
I think... maybe this is a bad idea, but I keep thinking about it lately, so I thought I’d at least have a stab at sorting out the geography of the RP world surrounding Dra-pol. I don’t know it it’ll be possible to tie-together all the factions that currently have all sorts of jumbled interaction, but we shall see.

Of course, this concerns the RP community with nations based in the Asia that counts Dra-pol occupant in North Korea, South Hanguk occupant in the south, though SH appears to have been deleted for inactivity, I think/hope it is just because Kilean is on holiday or something. If not, well then the south shall revert to none-player-control under the influence of occupying powers such as LRR, Hudecia, and what not.

A major issue for me/Dra-pol has been and continues to be China, which has been long considered important to the development and survival of the CPRD (Dra-pol). I have been working with a neighbour that was none player controlled and based upon the real PR China, with some slightly modified modern history due to interaction with the revolutionary Drapoel republic. It has been important to use this relatively friendly China in order to give Dra-pol a link to the outside world and thanks to shared history since the two nations’ revolutions. It is recorded that just a few years ago the Drapoel Director was killed defending a Chinese conference hall and its delegates from a terrorist attack (although he was actually beaten to death in the toilets by Quinntonian agents). However, using this neighbour makes it difficult to interact with a lot of reasonable RPers with interests in the area, and it would be ideal to have player-controlled neighbours.

So I’m considering the possibility of having Dra-pol border the China divided between Xiaguo, Sino, _Taiwan, and whoever the heck else there is. This does mean a serious upset to the status quo for me, of course... makes life incredibly hard for Dra-pol, but it might be what’s practical.

I’d like to compile a basic map that fits Korea, Japan, China, eastern Russia, and so forth... presumably with LRR in Russia, and perhaps depicting the Lyong Peninsula if other parties such as LRR can be found agreeable. Then there’s the like of Marimaia, likely to be important to Dra-pol personally if China ceases to be a big friendly socialist neighbour.

Erm... yeah, so, I dunno, I’d like any input from possibly concerned parties with regards to any of the issues. I think it might be interesting to add the shifting political balances into developing RPs and to finally work out who’s where and what Da’Khiem can do to worm its way out of the next tight spot. I like to be quite fluid and such with these things, normally, but it’s starting to become difficult to accommodate an increasing number of conflicting forces and requirements without a solid base. And I'm not even a little bit interested in Earth 1,2,3, or whatever the hell else.

I used to RP with my region being an island in the Pacific, but since the guys I regularly RP with now are E.Islandia, Dra-pol etc., I've been thinking more about where Marimaia lies in 'our version of Asia'. The map of Marimaia on my homepage shows us as being Thailand, Laos and Cambodia (or, a country which looks a lot like them and is in the general Southeast Asia area).

By looking at other maps I've seen e.g. Xiaguo's China map, that would give us a border with Sino. It would also place us within a good distance of Dra-pol; close enough to be useful but not so close that no-one can interfere with cooperative efforts.

(Just within range of our IRBMs, should relations sour ;) )

Works for me. When I first created Dra-pol it was going to be situated in Cambodia, more or less, but by the time my first RP was gaining momentum it became North Korea.

Sry, cant help u guys here. I'm just a huge bunch of islands somewhere in the south Pacific, a little bit near Oceania and some islands near Indonesia, with a claim on the Spratlys.

Btw, isnt Sino a separate continent in the middle of the Pacific? And Taiwan cant share your border cause hes...Taiwan... so that leaves Xiaguo, PRC China...

I think we should look at the United China map...then we'll see who borders who. But I've never looked at the Marimaia map (plz provide a link to ur homepage, Marimaia).

Yeah, I don't know where the UC map is, but I gather that it depicts a mainland China split between Sino in the south, erm, Xiaguo in the north, maybe, and someone else between. I could well be wrong.
I'll probably end up sketching myself a map (well, colouring in bits of Asia, heh) with an arrow or vague blob depicting roughly where EI's islands are :)

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=353496

my resort! haha

My homepage:

http://groups.msn.com/TheSuunistPeoplesRepublicofMarimaia/home.htm

OOC: Should I start up a nation for the south? It'd be a puppet state (obviously) but it might help clear some things up.

I'll continue to RP from the position of Canada.

Xiaguo is northern China and Sino is southern China btw... they showed me a map of their respective spheres of influence.

whatever happened to South Dalania?

IF theyre not around anymore, i guess hudecia should start up a new nation

Yeah, SD was deleted for inactivity weeks before the War For Korean Unification even started. As for a new ROK, I'm not sure there's any rush. Kilean may come back, but if not it shan't matter right away, anyway, because I'm not planning to attack tomorrow or anything. Still, if someone involved especially wants to RP a southern administration, I don't expect I'll argue. Perhaps it could start with that General... Lee, was it? Being forced from power.

O btw, our "Night on the DMZ" thread is stuck. Any ideas on how to improve it?

I'll start the thread on General Lee being removed from power.

Ah, there's no rush with that thread, is there? It's set in the past, so isn't vital to anything else moving on. I'd post now, but I'm just too tired to think clearly for long enough.

Well, I could possibly portray South Korea, though I tend to utilize China's geography.

Mainland China.. would you start a new nation? It'd be nice to have a little unpredictability in the south. But within limits of course.

But I must warn you... the situation is grim for the south.

Japann can no longer RP due to problems with the server move, so I guess Japan would either be under Sinoese occupation or RPed by Turkmeny.

And Taiwan is....Taiwan?

Mainland China.. would you start a new nation? It'd be nice to have a little unpredictability in the south. But within limits of course.

But I must warn you... the situation is grim for the south.

Sure, any particular name?, I doubt South Korea is not yet taken.

OOC:
none in particular... but something to indicate that it is what is left of south korea... South Dalania, South Hanguk.. you get the theme.. LOL...

General Lee is overthrown :

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=353878

Umm.. Taiwan... I think Xiaguo is pretty pissed with Turkmeny right now... and Turkmeny claims to have all of Korea anyway.. so its a little incompatible with Drapol...

We need a new Japan

Umm.. Taiwan... I think Xiaguo is pretty pissed with Turkmeny right now... and Turkmeny claims to have all of Korea anyway.. so its a little incompatible with Drapol...

We need a new Japan

Maybe New Kyoto City can help. Tg him i guess.

For those interested, HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Chivtv/NS1/Drapolmap.jpg) is a map of the Korean peninsula as it stands following the War For Korean Unification, which, as you can see, brought Seoul and many other cities into the CPRD.
The ringed area on the east coast of North Korea is Quinntonian Dra-pol and is at any given time 20 minutes away from total obliteration by tens of thousands of Drapoel artillery tubes. The black dashes right above the inscription, "CPRD" indicate the pre-war and real-life boundry between the CPRD (or DPRK in reality) and the ROK.

Do the to collapse of my RP about Korea, partly due to mistakes of my own and partly due to the mistakes of others, I have pretended that will never happen, and would be willing to take up Japan in Asia RPs.

For future reference, I am Tokarev, I use Turkmeny because a forum error prevents Tokarev from logging on, and so I have to use a puppet to log on.

I can understand if Xiaguo and Sino don't want this, I can understand if they are angry at me, and I apologize for anything I have done, real or percieved, to offend them.

Hello, this is Mainland China, ready to assume the role of South Korea.

Ok, welcome to our RP world.

South Koryo... nice choice *applause*

Hmm... I better fill you in on the total situation... so far you have three main allies: LRR, Kilean .. and me! (Hudecia) Other possible allies include: E. Islandia, Xiaguo, Sino, Taiwan, and Tokarev/Turkemny (should he get involved)

Hudecia has about 250 000 troops in your country and sizeable naval forces positioned around you as well as a number of fighters. Also, naval shipyards and aircraft production facilities have been constructed for you (courtesy of Hudecia Industries) in Ulsan and Pohang respectively.

LRR has troops there too, I'll let him fill you in on his strategic situation.

I think the South Koryo armed forces consists of donated vessels from LRR, 'misplaced' fighters from Hudecia, and about 250 000 Kilean-trained troops.

Major nuclear blasts destroyed Pusan, Ulsan and Daegu (if I remember correctly) and rebuilding is only just beginning really. Radiation still covers sizeable areas of both the Yellow Sea and parts of the Korea peninsula.

Food shortages are covered by regular aid shipments from Hudecia.

Hudecian Korean Command is based out of Pohang.

Thanks to a Hudecian orchestrated coup, you are now in charge of the remnants of the ROK and the fate of the free Korean people rests on your shoulders.

As we say in Canada, bon chance!

Heh, thanks.

I hope that LRR can get back to me with his situation report. Otherwise things seem to be in order.

I just tried to get an assesment of Dra-pol's miitary and it looks like I have a rough time ahead of me.

I'll try my best.

Hey, welcome to the RP world. Ok, so Turkmeny is Japan now right? OK, so, you're allies with ROK right?


Here's the Map.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v25/Littleredboi/NSCHINA2.jpg
China

If anyone wants me to include the Korean Penninsula or any islands, feel free to post here and I will try to do so.

TAG

OOC: Just remember, NOBODY F*CKS WITH THE CHINESE FLAG!!!

Hm. Looking around at national profiles, it looks as if Xiaguo ought not be a lost cause for Drapoel diplomats. Authoritarian socialist, it would seem... not so very different from the CPRD, if only they'd dare to admit it :)

Preeety much everyone else will be generally regarded as bourgeois scum, and the Japanese would have struggled to endear themselves to the alarmingly racist Drapoel, even if there had been a Kurosite coup in Tokyo. Just for the sake of annoying them, Da'Khiem would probably like to make at least passing comment on Sino's fairly high tax rate and its admirably socialistic stepping with regards to income. Maybe there's still hope for the Sinoese revolution :D

Erm, well, yeah, the map. Things seem to be coming together easily enough, then. Everybody seems to fit, with Marimaia south of Sino, Dra-pol caught between Xiaguo and South Koryo, with Quinntonian Dra-pol leeching off its back, perhaps LRR will still fit north of Xiaguo, and the Lyong peninsula east of that? I dunno.

All right, anyway, we've sympathy to incite... I hope nobody's state employs internet blockers!

Nah, Pornography, and sites teaching people how to make bombs are allowed in Xiaguo. J/k, I am putting that law of have a different ending such as, www.pornography.prn.

The US is actually debating on this issue^

Censorship is practiced in every country and we have a department on attacking other countries' networks. We also have a strong technology department which protects and defends all Government system.




Well, Xiaguo is a COnstitutional Monarchy with it's Government structure based of Socialism. With extension of freedoms and capitalism.

OOC: I'm overjoyed that everything is working out =D... and no... I'm not being sarcastic... lol..

If Dra-Pol kept peace in the Korean Penninsula, than Both Xiaguo and Dra-Pol may even becaome allies.

Sino only recognizes South Hanguk as the true sovereign of Korea. The is one Korea, as there is one China.

We recognise Both Dra-Pol and South Hanguk as the Koreas, but believes the South Hanguk goverment the legitimate one of Korea.

Hm. Looking around at national profiles, it looks as if Xiaguo ought not be a lost cause for Drapoel diplomats. Authoritarian socialist, it would seem... not so very different from the CPRD, if only they'd dare to admit it :)

Preeety much everyone else will be generally regarded as bourgeois scum, and the Japanese would have struggled to endear themselves to the alarmingly racist Drapoel, even if there had been a Kurosite coup in Tokyo. Just for the sake of annoying them, Da'Khiem would probably like to make at least passing comment on Sino's fairly high tax rate and its admirably socialistic stepping with regards to income. Maybe there's still hope for the Sinoese revolution :D

Erm, well, yeah, the map. Things seem to be coming together easily enough, then. Everybody seems to fit, with Marimaia south of Sino, Dra-pol caught between Xiaguo and South Koryo, with Quinntonian Dra-pol leeching off its back, perhaps LRR will still fit north of Xiaguo, and the Lyong peninsula east of that? I dunno.

All right, anyway, we've sympathy to incite... I hope nobody's state employs internet blockers!

Grrr... DP, switch nations so I can continue the invasion of Eritrea and Abynissia. Oh, and strangely enough, we recognise DP as the only Korea.

Roania should abandon imperial designs for Taiwan as the Sino-Taiwan Alliances ensures that such a relationship is more than mother and child.

However, the Xiannese government is also looking for closer ties to Dra-Pol. North China's monthly food and health supplies to S. Hanguk has increased following last month.

North China's increase in trade will allow it to be one of the richest nations in Asia.


OOC:Hey, SIno, if you use thirdgeek, you have a deficit in trade of a few hundred million.

NOTE:Xiaguo has 30 million dollars of trade revenues monthly.-_-

1) Geography: Spyr, and several other nations, are located in the Lyong peninsula, a fictional landmass in the northern Sea of Japan. Some detail here (http://www.freewebs.com/strain/lyong.html), though its a bit out of date at the moment.

2) Japan: Spyr, and the AA, had occupation troops in Japann after the war against the Bonstockian imperialists. If someone is going to start up Japan as an RP nation, will these be set aside, or should there be RP resolution?

Well, all occupational troops have long left Japan, so if Tokarev wanted he could take on the role of Japan.

We did kinda resolve the entire issue by reestablishing democracy, so we could say that Japan has fully recovered (it has been pretty silent).

Tokarev is willing to take the role of Japan, as that is what I have been RPing since December 03.

An new rp's to celebrate this newly organised geograpgical refernce? Seems like this has ended, but in the best way.

Roania should abandon imperial designs for Taiwan as the Sino-Taiwan Alliances ensures that such a relationship is more than mother and child.

The Divine Imperium of Novar Ohan has enough trouble swallowing its current territories of Zemyla, Micronesia, Somalia, Yemen, Hawaii and Madagascar. Why on earth would we care to add more to our administrative troubles? Sure, I'd sooner destroy Taiwan then see Sino strike missiles based there (after all, Novar Ohan is just a few hours flight east in the North Pacific), but so far relations remain warm.

Spyr has still been RPing with heavy commercial interests and a consulate in Niigata, Japan (pretty much right across the Sea of Japan from Lyong). Now that we've settled on a Japan for RPing, I'd like to figure out if such a link is still tenable.

Oh man, you have to talk to Tokarev then. He's our new Japan.

So...maps?

OOC: About those who RP Asian countries, is there anyone here who's actually Asian besides, Xiaguo, _Taiwan, Sino and EI.

OOC: I'm not asian, but I'm Rping from the position of Canada. But, I can speak some Japanese and Mandarin. I think I remember Tokarev/Turkmeny saying that he is Japanese.

OOC: I was born and raised here in Tokyo.

Spyr: A link would still be feasible, if you are interested. T-gram me (Tokarev, not Turkmeny).

OOC: Where in Tokyo? It is a fairly big city. I stayed up in Chiba.

Narashino, which is only a little further up the bay from Chiba

Whoa... do you know the Sotobo sen? I think that's what it is called. Or Makuhari?

My high school was Shibuya-Makuhari (Shibu-Maku for short) when I was staying there?

OOC: I was born and raised here in Tokyo.

OOC:

*Runs into his airraid bunker. Closes the hatch. Cradles a loaded M16, staring at nothing but a month long supply of ammo, food and water.*

I wonder how much ammo one gets through when shut in a bunker for a month.

I wonder how much ammo one gets through when shut in a bunker for a month.

OOC: It all depends on the size of that bunker. If you run out off ammo, there's always the odds of suceeding in a bayonet charge. (LOL but nervously).

I'm thinking you won't need much ammo since if you are shut in a bunker you aren't likely to be shooting much except to keep yourself occupied..........

wait... I take it back then... Sino will need a lot

OOC:

*Runs into his airraid bunker. Closes the hatch. Cradles a loaded M16, staring at nothing but a month long supply of ammo, food and water.*

Har de har har. :p

OOC:

*Runs into his airraid bunker. Closes the hatch. Cradles a loaded M16, staring at nothing but a month long supply of ammo, food and water.*

ooc: *creeps up behind Sino*

*jumps up and yells* "BOO!!!"

I'm not Asian, I'm an American with mostly Swedish ancestors (hence my RP of Swedish weapons, use of Swedish language, etc)

I know some Chinese though... Not sure if I have the pinyin right, but i have no tone when i speak it anyway.

"Wo shi Mei-gou ryen. Ni huay shou Ying-wen ma?"

Hopefully, that meant "I'm American. Do you speak English?"

Then again, no Chinese person understands. This solution is better:

*Chris Tucker imitation* "Do you speaka any English?... Do you understand the words that are comin' outa my mouth?"

HAI WAU SHI YING WEN!

lalalalla

friday nights at home are the worst...ugh

any1 know where to get some good deals on airsoft guns?

If you lived within a few thousand miles of me I'd sell you my HK G3A3 and M13 for the price of a bottle of vodka, but as it happens I don't fancy walking into the post office with them :)

"I'm not Asian, but I might soon be staying with a Japanese girl!" He says as if it matters. I'm entirely Celtic origin, hence the booze and the Drapoel inclination to identify with the Beth Gellens :) I am sadly much too poor to visit Asia. Closest I ever got was the European side of the Soviet sphere before it collapsed.

I wonder how much ammo one gets through when shut in a bunker for a month.

OOC: Aren't NK meant to be experts when that question comes up? LOL

"Wo shi Mei-gou ryen. Ni huay shou Ying-wen ma?"

Hopefully, that meant "I'm American. Do you speak English?"

Then again, no Chinese person understands. This solution is better:

*Chris Tucker imitation* "Do you speaka any English?... Do you understand the words that are comin' outa my mouth?"

OOC: To the Chinese, when Americans speak Chinese with no tone it sounds like the Terminator speaking Chinese.

*Speaks like the Terminator but with a slight Taiwanese accent:* "Yi ding yao gan diao Bang Si Tuo Ke!" (We must terminate Bonstock!)

ooc: *creeps up behind Sino*

*jumps up and yells* "BOO!!!"

*Turns around with lightening reflexes*

*Speaks with a Taiwanese accent:* "Ta ma de, GAN!" *Squeezes the trigger for full auto*

OOC: To the Chinese, when Americans speak Chinese with no tone it sounds like the Terminator speaking Chinese.

*Speaks like the Terminator but with a slight Taiwanese accent:* "Yi ding yao gan diao Bang Si Tuo Ke!" (We must terminate Bonstock!)

*Same imitation* "...Right after we finish terminating Gray Davis and John Kerry!"

*Turns around with lightening reflexes*

*Speaks with a Taiwanese accent:* "Ta ma de, GAN!" *Squeezes the trigger for full auto*

*is sliced in two by auto blast*

*both sides suddenly form into full people*

*Sino shoots both in half*

*both divide and form fully*

*scene goes on and on as we keep dividing and growing*

*is sliced in two by auto blast*

*both sides suddenly form into full people*

*Sino shoots both in half*

*both divide and form fully*

*scene goes on and on as we keep dividing and growing*

OOC: I don't RP Medieval fantasy. Thank you.

Yeh opens the door and drops in, wtf is happening here, "takes a sip of the long island drink he had in his hand, puts down the other 2. CLoses door, and tip toes off.

Here's some food for thought, fellow Asians:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=356654

GO HERE: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=356763 Elections in Maropian Coast!

Sees Yeh run off from the bunker.

Backs a cement truck up to the bunker and dumps a load on it, making sure Liu is sealed tight inside it.

*Runs out from a different tunnel exit after setting fire to the rest of the Bonstocknian clones. Lazing the Hudecian cement truck for napalming before heading off to rendevous with an MBT column.*

While I'm thinking about it, do we have a Vietnam or Malaysia equivalent? Since they're now 'officially' my neighbours, I'd like to know who I'm next to. Plus it would add to the picture of what our Asia looks like, as it would complete Sino's southern border as well.

(On the issue of nationality, I'm a Welsh/possibly Mediterranean (we're checking the family tree at present) UK citizen with a huge interest in most things Asian.)

Hello, I was not aware of this thread... Which is strange since Sino posts basically every thread of Asian interest in the China Messageboard.

Anyway, about a week ago I told _Taiwan, Sino and Xaiguo I wanted to finally start RPing on the NationStates boards. I told them the National History that I had worked out, and they agreed to it. Anyway, Chuang-Han, according to what I said in my history, and what Sino agreed to, controls the provences of Guangxi, Yunnan and Hainan. Just so you know.

Oh and Marimaia, that would be my border southern border with you, not Sino's now.

~Happy to be part of the Asian Role Playing Community now!

What about the Phillipines?

A while ago I did business at my storefront with a nation called "The Filipine Islands" who might be interested in playing them for us, but he is only 50 million at best.

Oh and Marimaia, that would be my border southern border with you, not Sino's now.

~Happy to be part of the Asian Role Playing Community now!

I stand corrected :)

I stand corrected :)

And I'll be a great neighbor. The Chuang (Zhuang) people are Thai by origin. Look them up in the encylopedia, they have a most interesting history.
They're Chuang in Cantonese, and Zhuang in Pinyin. You can probably find them under either.

Greetings all...

I would be very interested in participating in this enterprise, on the grounds that I have been on the lookout for a sensible (and active) asian RP for several months now without much luck. As a result I have been reduced to playing Asian-style nations in Europe and Africa of all places!

I already own several nations which might be suitable (though some may have died by now...), but first things first: would there be space for me?

Apologies for my appearance out-of-the-blue...

Well... as far as I know, there are several nations up for grabs, including Vietnam, Malaysia, Phillipines and many of the island nations. But seriously, choose a country you want to represent and go from there.

Xiaguo- North China
Sino-South China
Chaung Han China - South edge of China
Taiwan - Taiwan
Drapol- North Korea and most of the south too
LRR - Eastern part of Russia
Bedou- Tajikistan,Kyrgyzstan
Marimaia- Cambodia, Laos, Thailand
Tokarev/Turkmeny - Japan
Hudecia - Canada

Thanks Hudecia...

I suppose my nation of Sangun could stand in for Vietnam; after all, Sangun was originally intended to mean 'the three districts' and Vietnam was comprised of the three regions of Annam, Tonkin and Cochinchina...

Yeah I'm coastal eastern Siberia. That's like kamchatka, up the northern area, and Sakhalin.


Sort of that area.

But South Koryo, the navy's mostly trained in anti-insurgency tactics with a smattering of missile boat manouvers here and there. That's what LRRN advisers have taught, anyway.

Thanks Hudecia...

I suppose my nation of Sangun could stand in for Vietnam; after all, Sangun was originally intended to mean 'the three districts' and Vietnam was comprised of the three regions of Annam, Tonkin and Cochinchina...


Minimally wrong. Die Viet (pre 1850s Vietnam) was invaded by a Franco-Spanish force in 1858-ish. They held Saigon, and after a yearlong seige, the Die Viet troops were routed and France slowly took over what came to be known as Cochinchina, which was southern Die Viet. When France took central Die Viet (Annam) the north continued to fight. Dunno how but the name Tonkin became applied to the north. When the French finally defeated Diet Viet, they kept the North, Central and South for administrative reasons. Cambodia was forced under French protection in the 1870s, and Laos in 1897 (Which actually consisted of three seperate kingdoms, which France combined into a federation). Tonkin, Annam and Cochinchina are the byproducts of colonialism. None of the names are local to Vietnam. Cochinchina was a generic term developed by France, Tonkin was a name applied by the French, and Annam is a Chinese term for 'pacified south'.

I'm going into a lecture here... Anyway, sorry!

The name Tonkin is derived from Dong Kinh, from the 7th Century.

I’ve been thinking (uh oh)... this is all looking pretty great. There’s a real little community of potentially realistic Asian-based nations coming together. I couldn’t find this when I started Dra-pol, and hopped from region to region looking. At first Dra-pol was going to be more or less where Marimaia now lies, and was going to be much more akin to Pol Pot’s Kampuchea than Kim Il-Sung’s Korea (which ended up inspiring the Suloist/Kurosite divide, which was cool)!

It was actually just going to be a third world hold in the jungle that never amounted to anything.

Anyway, even when I moved to the region Asia and started down this reunification-dominated route it was in a pretty different environment. Things have changed in a way that only the OOC world of RP can explain, rather than IC developments. Neighbours have appeared and vanished, and taken with them some of the means to have created and supported the nation that I play. This is making me think that I should have adapted again much more quickly.

Most things are finally becoming a bit more realistic... but there are things that just don’t fit.

Seems like a bad time to be thinking it, but the war is ...not right. In fact it is pretty absurd. I’ve already scaled-back what Dra-pol is capable of, and numerous times been credited privately for restraint... and that seems so odd when what now is really happening is the complete obliteration of everyone in the south. Whether people appreciate it or not, the Drapoel attack was just too great to even hamper very much. We just don’t care about the couple of fighters that get off the ground, the few dozen/hundred SAM batteries that last all of half a day, or the hundreds of anti-tank and anti-ship missiles levelled against us. They’ll be lucky to inflict 1% casualties on the Drapoel forces. The fact is, the final advance is a walk-over (not as such for the man on the ground, but in the grand scheme of things). If there’s ever a problem, each square metre of it gets hammered by multiple shells/missiles/rockets/bombs in a matter of minutes, and the problem’s gone. Then after that the outside can pick apart the PAAF and maybe the UPN in a lengthy campaign that costs their nations thousands of lives and trillions of dollars and never has any hope of putting troops back into Korea. As I see it, there’s nothing that anyone can do to stop the UPA rolling over the ROK in a matter of hours without godmodding or whatever, and there’s nothing the CPRD can do against... well, future tech.

We shoot three million shells at you, you all die. You shoot ten thousand missiles that don’t even exist yet, and our heavy weapons all vanish. After that, I sit about in Korea with ninety million men at arms with AK-clones, and nobody has any contact with the peninsula. It just leaves me sat back where I was before this new community started to appear, when I was bored enough to start attacking the south because it was the only way to make new contacts.

Basically, what I’m getting at, is that I’m going to change Dra-pol somewhat. It is perhaps a bit optimistic of me, but what the hey, it’s only a game- may as well try.

I’m going to start RPing with a realistic population size based on...well, Korea. I’m not going to accept any future tech at all when used against me or in potential detriment to RP*, because were even a theoretically possible weapon were to enter use, someone starts thinking of a counter to it. I can’t do that myself because I’m not a team of engineers with a state economy backing me up. (And all right, I didn’t appreciate things like dismissive ‘snorts’ and hey my uber fast missiles can kill you and there’s nothing you can do even though you could just as easily have chosen to play a nation with an orbital artillery platform that could smash my nation! Much as others probably don’t enjoy being faced with human odds that their nations can never resist simply because they chose to play a sane nation and I didn’t.)

I don’t know where this is going to put the Korean conflict. It will need to be worked-out. This means major changes in my nation, certainly. Dra-pol won’t have the resources for a bajillion soldiers (maybe just a bog standard million or something!) and it won’t have the disposable public works to build OMG super weapons on a whim or on mass. Obviously this means that we won’t be facing nations with similarly unrealistic capabilities. It’s just better, it’s more stable so I hope not to be requiring of so many changes in future as I’ve had to incorporate in the past, and so on.

I suppose I’ll either assume that the latest attack never really happened, that it was just another fleeting outbreak of violence, or that we got a couple of dozen further miles and that’s where we sit waiting to see how everybody else reacts to these changes.

If it were up to me, now that we’re building such a promising and realistic community we’d all have realistic populations and capabilities based on our nations’ location and history and what not. I can’t exactly force anyone else to play along, though, as they’ve interactions with nations outside of this sphere and may be faced by rivals with three billion people, and as such unwilling to play a population of twenty seven million or something.

Sorry. I get excitable. I want to see a map of our Asia and maybe even have a region for it and everything, heh, what can I say.

*Though this doesn’t mean I won’t engage in other none-vital or character-oriented RP with futuristic nations.

The region of Tonkin and the gulf of Tonkin get their name from the two Chinese characters 東京, dong jing, which means "eastern capital". In Vietnam the characters were pronounced dong kinh (Tonkin), which was the old name for Hanoi. "Eastern capital" or dong jing, and the same two Chinese characters, also refer to the city of Kaifeng in China and Tokyo in Japan.

OOC: In 1812, the US congress declared that conquering Canada, was 'a mere matter of marching' that nothing the Canadians could field would ever even dent the US advance.

2 years later, after Canada burned the White House and had even conqueered Michigan at times.. teh war ended..

Just an interesting fact.

I'm willing to curb my military might if Drapol is.

Heh, yeah, but when have the Americans ever known what they were talking about? They've lost wars against stone age nomads and third world partisans, attacking the British Empire was never an action likely to put them in the ascendancy. I mean, it was the British that landed, paraded about, razed public buildings, and left when they saw fit. There's no accounting for American judgement or memory span, sadly. To my mind that would have been an upset only if the Americans hadn't continued to get their arses kicked as in the Revolutionary War.

This isn't important. The point is here that if a certain Drapoel victory isn't a Drapoel victory, then a probable enemy victory isn't going to be given any greater courtesy. More than that, the RP world has changed and we can now do better.

I've decided that I'm not going on with a world populated by trillions of people, where nations have limitless resources in manpower, public works, capital, research bases, and what not, especially not now that a realistic community with a real world base is what exists. I'm trying to play out the history of a realistic nation in Asia, and having these limitless resources absolutely obliterates the point of that- I may as well go back to playing Civilization Call To Power or something if I wanted to do that.

That makes sense, right?

Like I say, now might seem a funny time to reach this conclusion, but it's this time that's found me at said conclusion, and so far as I can see it's really as good a time as any for development.

Thanks for the info; I must confess that I'm only superficially familiar with Vietnamese history and am not helped by an inability to speak any of the languages! I merely referred to the three divisions of Vietnam because I remembered something I'd read about the South Vietnamese flag (the three red lines on gold), and I could see a potential tie-in with Sangun (which incidentally also has a Red River).

Dra-pol: Personally I really
like your idea of keeping populations and capabilities realistic; that's very much the way things are run in Africa and was one of the most persuasive factors that encouraged me to settle there (Kashu, although oriental in culture, is based on Iran for demographic and geographic purposes).

80 million men, hundreds of thousands of artillery, aircraft, and tanks don't make an unstoppable army, it makes a highly visible and very large cruise missile or cluster bomb target that would stumble over its own feet and starve itself of any and all neccessary supplies such as food and water. I don't care what Stalin said, there's a point whereupon any quality quantity has is gone and you crossed it big time and made it even worse by insisting that no matter what we did you couldn't possibly be defeated. That isn't roleplay, that's textbook godmodding.

In short, if basing your nation upon the RL North Korea will get you to adopt some semblance of realistic RP, then you have my whole-hearted support.

I try to play realistically. My army is small and perpetually unprepared, but I have a strong navy, but not a ridiculously uber large one. My air force is just a division of the navy,

And Dra-Pol, Scandavian States is right. The more you claim that simply having numerical advantage and lots of artillery means instant victory is simply stupid. There are countless historical examples and common sense to contradict this.

I think Drapol's idea of having realistic populations is a good one. It also prevents nations with the size of .. hmm.. lets say... Jeju-do from saying 'HAH I have 1.688 billion people! I smash you!'

Which is totally unrealistic. I had a discussion about this with Bonstock once and we kinda decided that either we had to assume the land was growing or our populations were stable.

Locating nations in a RL setting is only worthwhile if you also adopt realistic populations (and by extension armed forces). Otherwise we are back to the 'Earth No. X' phenomenon in which a 1 billion+ country is crammed into the British isles...

A real life setting does however have other advantages that are less frequently remarked on. I used to be active in Europe, where there is a map (although not a RL one) and some attempts to restrict rampant population; however these efforts are often frustrated by something as simple as the lack of a sense of scale. Hence, no one knows have far anywhere is away from each other, so we routinely get millions of men being shipped from one side of the continent to the other, with no one questioning matters like logistics or airlift capacity. On an RL map it is much easier to work out exactly how far your ships can sail, missiles can fly etc and this makes fighting much more challenging. It also makes diplomacy and the consturction of forward bases more important.

Finally, I like the way in which a realistic setting makes you think about your army: you haven't got an unlimited budget, so you might have to choose between that new carrier or that armoured division; in these cases the deciding factor is likely to be the potential threats to your nation and the above all your location, so once again I feel a little realism can make life much more interesting.

If I put SS up against a wall and pointed a .50 calibre revolver at the middle of his head I'm half convinced that I'd be told while thumbing back the hammer that he'd just walk it off.

And besides, a skinny guy like me couldn't possibly support a gun that big, with one arm! Thankfully I have two. And Dra-pol's army wasn't just eighty four million extra naked riflemen added to the North Korean military. Jesus. Every damn post I've read from SS thus far has had a snide remark or a bitch or otherwise unfriendly/unfun undertone, and I'm going to make it easy and completely ignore the whole damn country because I'll feel a lot better. You take the easy way out and say, "numbers aren't everything" because it's a good blanket defence to hold on to in NS, I'll take the easy way out in return and stop paying attention, which is another and remarkably similar defence.

Sorry about that tangent, I freely admit that I'm not patient enough to deal with utterly misplaced arrogance of comments such as SS' last farce of a statement.

_______

There we see a line drawn under the brief and fully erased chapter of Drapoel/SS interaction. Back to Asian geography...

I'm wondering about the Korean situation (of course I would)... technically some of the tactics used by the CPRD in the original War For Korean Unification wouldn't have been so easily carried-out in this revised world I'm moving into, but the basics hold, I think and the partial occupation is all pretty well established, so I think that's to stay. Any gains in the brief and unworkable re-start I suppose shall be abandoned.

I don't know too much about many other nations' regional situations, off the top of my head, so this might be a waste of key depressions, but I may as well ask if there's any substantial interest in creating a new region or moving a load of us to one existing already... I don't want to cause a lot of hassle if most other players are already settled and what not, but I am going to play Dra-pol this way until it is part of a realistic and developed community like that.

Sounds well and sensible, Sangun.

A new region might make it easier to co-ordinate matters (and would help build a better sense of community) but I have got the impression that several key nations are relatively settled. Personally I'm footloose so I would be in favour of setting something up from scratch, but then again I'm new ;)

Hmm... so... realistically... if I considered Canada to be the style of which I think is appropriate... we'd have no more than 50 000 men deployed (max) in Korea. Any arguments?

If I say the Canada I am representing is the Canada which is RL.. then... we'd have no army,navy or air force worth speaking of.. and that's no fun for me... lol.

I'd support moving to a new region... cuz I'm not exactly active in the region which I now occupy.

Hudecia's raised a good point: if things are too RL there's no creativity, and often no fun.

Personally I think a good solution is the sort of set up they use in the Africa forum- populations, natural geography and to some degree resources are based on RL data; however on the grounds that land in Africa isn't intrinisically less productive than land in say North America (a desert is a desert in both continents), the level of a nation's actual development is only modified by NS values and RP.

There is no economic or geographical reason why Canada or Japan couldn't have substantially bigger armed forces, so a player representing them should only be limited by RL population and NS economic rating.

Looks promising for a new region, then.

Don't let me dictate anything about the nature of your nation state... I don't know much of anything about Hudecian history and what not, for example. I'm not playing the DPRK- Dra-pol fell-out with Stalin right away, has its own political philosophies, and doesn't share an exact history of diplomacy with the real Korea in any form. I suppose it could be looked at as what might have happened to Korea in an alternate timeline or something. Hm.

Not that Canada couldn't be tough if it wanted to, anyway, of course :)

Sorry, this is off topic, but could one of you guys help me with a quick linguistic issue?

I was planning to use the same three-capital system in Sangun that I used in Kashuria, but in combination with a three-fold division of the country. Unfortunately I have no idea how the names of my cities and provinces would be pronounced in the area- could some kind soul please help me out!

北郡 (Northern District) 北京 (IRL Hanoi)
中郡 (Middle District) 中京 (IRL Hue)
南郡 (Southern District) 南京 (IRL Saigon)

Much appreciated ;)

YAY, a Vietnam!

The Imperial Capital of Die Viet and Annam was "Hue" it is pronounced "Way". The Capital of Tonkin, Northern Vietnam, and Presant-day Vietnam is Hanoi.
The Capital of the original Vietnamese civilization, Cochinchina, Indochina, and South Vietnam was Saigon (Today Ho Chi Minh City).

That can help, but if you may want to consider more historical names or something, maybe check this site: http://www.guidetothailand.com/thailand-history/index.html
It has the full history of all of Indochina...

Sorry, this is off topic, but could one of you guys help me with a quick linguistic issue?

I was planning to use the same three-capital system in Sangun that I used in Kashuria, but in combination with a three-fold division of the country. Unfortunately I have no idea how the names of my cities and provinces would be pronounced in the area- could some kind soul please help me out!

北郡 (Northern District) 北京 (IRL Hanoi)
中郡 (Middle District) 中京 (IRL Hue)
南郡 (Southern District) 南京 (IRL Saigon)

Much appreciated ;)
I know the Mandarin Chinese pronounciations of those characters and a few of the Japanese and Vietnamese equivalents.

In Chinese
Northern district = Beijun
Middle district = Zhongjun
Southern district = Nanjun
Northern capital = Beijing
Middle capital = Zhongjing
Southern capital = Nanjing
In Japanese
Northern district = Hokgun
Middle district = Chogun
Southern district = ???
Northern capital = Hokkyo
Middle capital = Chokyo
Southern capital = ???
In Vietnamese
Northern district = ???
Middle district = ???
Southern district = ???
Northern capital = Bac Kinh
Middle capital = Trung Kinh
Southern capital = Nam Kinh

Of course... the present day Canadian armed forces could be tough... kinda... if they had to ... well... not really but... oh well... LOL

I figure Hudecia is more of a Conservative dream of Canada, a strong military, (maybe a weaker health care/education), no Senate, separate powers for Parliament and Cabinet, etc...

I'd be all for a new more realistic region, since mine is dead. I mean totally dead.

According to my calculations, the RL Marimaia would have a population of 84,297,061 (according to the CIA Factbook). I can live with that.

It would also finally allow me to nail down a proper history for the NeoSuunist Prosperity Sphere. In a nutshell, it's currently "Asian colonists fought over a piece of land which declared independence and became Marimaia". With Marimaia now situated in SE Asia, a lot of more interesting history can be created.

Nowadays, I see Marimaia as a sort of ultra-nationalistic/bordering-on-fascist Thailand, except it has an incredibly good civil rights record (unless we're just very good at deceiving the UN).

It's more difficult to pin-down exactly what population Dra-pol would have. Some thousands of North Koreans defected to Quinntonia on religious grounds, and we've got half a country in the south and it'd be hard to say exactly how many people fled. With the Red Bamboo and Banat getting in south of many population centres we had for a time the lion's share of the nation pinned-in, but then evacuated hundreds of thousands in what was either an attempt to placate the coalition by letting people leave, an attempt to pacify the population by getting rid of the troublemakers, or simply a way to clog the roads and create a human shield, depending on who you believe.
I thought a minimum thirty-four million... about twenty-two million being original Drapoel, which would mean that three quarters of the southern population escaped or died... perhaps my pop. should be a little higher, but this covers us for a couple of million war dead in the last decade, too.

Erm, well, that'll do. All right then. I think I'll create a new region, if no one else has already. Any suggestions for a name? If Hudecia comes it'll span from possibly the Middle East to North America. Maybe we'll end up with a whole world in there, at this rate.

Any idea how realistic populations might be worked out for not-there-in-RL landmasses like Lyong?

I think the idea is a good one, though I'm not sure how Spyr would fit into it... NY will almost certainly be happy about it, as his 'modernizing tribal culture' idea has been made a bit wierd by a population that ballooned from 5 million to 500 million before he got a chance set up a really stable modern government...

Well... for me I'm only really considering my pacific rim area as being really important. If you want, I would consider my nation to be just the western 3 provinces of Canada.

That would leave my population at about 15 -20 million max considering the immigration of many Korean refugees.

I'll alter my RPing to match this.

I guess Spyr and North yaman and all would have to drastically decrease their population sizes to match with land realitites.... hmm...

I must say this is looking great...

I don't see though why we need to limit Hudecia to the 3 western provinces of Canada; after all, even if it isn't strictly speaking on the map, we all know how far Canada extends.

***

As a quick note: thanks to CHC and Antebellum for the info- much appreciated...

I don't think it's a case of us limiting anything. As I understand it, that's just what Hudecia is and has been since before we started discussing this, y'see.

It does seem most easy to justify a significant population change for Hudecia compared to what is real, though. I mean, if the western provinces were their own nation, I'd imagine that a lot more people would have gone there, rather than forgetting that Canada keeps going on once they reach the end of Ontario. I certainly didn't give much thought to the west coast while I was in Toronto :)

As for Lyong, well of course it's pretty much up to them, eh... perhaps once any interested parties have seen what sort of populations the rest of us have it'll be easier. They know their histories and terrain better than anyone else.

Fair enough...

In which case given that the population of Canada is so small in anyway, why doesn't Hudecia use the full population (or perhaps a bit less) but with the area of the three states. After all, as Dra-pol says, if the western area was independent it could certainly house a larger population.

Oh and for reference: Vietnam's population was 82,689,518 in July 2004 according to the CIA factbook, so that's what I'm using for Sangun...

Looks like maybe Hudecia and Dra-pol are going to be the little guys, depending what happens on Lyong. That's okay, it fits the established Drapoel siege mentality, I suppose.

Good job I didn't end up playing over Cambodia instead of Korea, really!

Hudecia, keep position as all of Canada... as a Canadian, I cant help but feel a twinge of nationalist pride every time I hear major military deployment orders being dispatched from Ottawa. ^_^

Anyway, compared to the Asian average, Canada's total population will be near the bottom of the scale. Just use your massive landmass to make vast quantities of food so all the overpopulated socialists dont die out from famine.

So are we going to roleplay using the populations of our nations as they exist in real life? If so 127,333,002, which I can live with.

If we are doing this, instead of using Turkmeny/Tokarev, I am going to create a new nation with a new name, one that is more Japanese in origin. I was hesitating to do this earlier, because I didn't want to have a 5 million nation against a bunch of billionaires. This is so I can access the forums with my real nation, and I can tailor it more to Japanese norms.

Anyway, my new nation will be called the Empire of Japannese Islands, and I will move it to any region we create.

LOL... it would make it simpler for me to just say that the eastern part of Canada is there, but just not important. LOL.... isn't that what we do anyway?

"The world doesn't revolve around Toronto *gasps!*"
-A shocked Torontonian

Actually I'm a central Canada type of guy but I figure you could get everything you need from the western 3 provinces, Saskatchewan = food!, Alberta = oil and industry, British Columbia = timber, minerals and the ocean

On the other hand, RPing as just the western 3 provinces would make an interesting spin. Western alienation ran rampant, eventually succession, Ottawa tried to maintain control but was too busy stuffing its pockets full of taxpayer dollars, Hudecia forms! LOL...

Either way I'm ok.. doesn't really matter.

Drapol would have at least 1 million troops so I don't think he'll have to worry about military might. Even though his population is less than 40 million he'd have more troops than many countries twice his size.

I've created the Empire of Japannese Islands to RP Japan from now on. I am retiring Turkmeny.

Lets see. Chuang-Han owns Yunnan, Guangxi (Kwangsi), Hainan... The real life populations of those three combined... I have...

Guangxi: 44,980,000
Yunnan: 42,880,000
Hainan: 7,780,000
Total: 95,640,000

I was already of thinking of using this anyway, since Yunnan, Hainan and Guangxi happen to be three of the poorest regions for farming in China... There would be scary famine if 670 million (C-H's NS population) were crammed in there!

Don't get me wrong, but it seemed like things were working out pretty well before...

All this 'realism' stuff is just too awkward, methinks.

I say this works even better, we know where each other is, we know what government we are, and it helps pave the first steps of a rp in Asia.

Personally I decided a while ago that my days of playing multi-billion nations were over; for one thing, there is the constant 'need' to compete against other multi-billion nations and that means constantly rejigging your order of battle to take into account the extra soldiers you could recruit from the 5 million you gained the day before. Frankly who needs that?

With sensible RL populations it's also much easier to keep wars, diplomatic standoffs and the like to sane levels.

Well...I dunno. I suppose I'll just go with the flow...

With RL populations, I suppose its fine, but with the ROK v.s. PDRK, the PDRK would have it a lot harder, and I would be far less able to help, since my part of russia only has a few million people living in it.

All this RL population stuff is fine so long as we aren't necessarily stuck with RP'ing what the country or area we occupy would do.

I guess my population would be, give or take, 10-20 million or so, plus very liberal attitudes towards immigration. That's why you see so many Indians and Africans in the LRR military, even though its a russian-based force.

All this RL population stuff is fine so long as we aren't necessarily stuck with RP'ing what the country or area we occupy would do.


I sincerely hope not!
My understanding is that the RL setting is merely providing the framework for our nations. Within the constraints of RL populations and geography each nation can be themselves.

I may have the same population and physical geography as Vietnam, but that doesn't mean I am in any way trying to be Vietnam. I am Sangun, and while I may look to the real world for inspiration I certainly won't feel constrained to act in accordance with it. After all, this is our Asia...

Yeah, I think the population limit is a good thing. Since I RPly view space-tech era as modern and modern era as past, my current population is probably a good reflection of what it could be in a lot of years.

But there's no way that I'm going to support two billion people in eastern siberia.

I should probably revise my military too.

Revised naval numbers (I'll still probably use the old ones when I'm interacting with non-enlightened countries):

350 Buddy Guy class missile boats
25 Son House class coastal defense corvettes
40 minesweepers/larger patrol corvettes/cutters

15 Krivak MOD frigates
3 Sovremenny MOD destroyers
14 or so large logistics ships (one or two Ivan Rogovs, five Ropuchas, the rest project 773 large landing craft).

15 Gotland class Attack submarines

Revised Army:

500 or so MBT-4, 5, 6, 7 series tanks
2,000 APC-7 APCs
a lot of trucks
a lot of assorted artillery guns, etc.

Well, I am not revising my nation's navy, as it is only 50% larger then the Imperial Japanese Navy of World War II, so I think my nation can support it quite easily. I will, however, downplay my airforce and armed forces.

As for population, I, at least, am going to use the population of the Japanese islands, using present-day population trends (I usually RP 1 RL month = 1 NS year in peacetime, but it miraculously slows down during an RP, so I will be increasing my population).

Argh...too awkward. I'll just somehow create a miracle food to sustain nearly 3 billion on Taiwan...*whoosh*

Argh...too awkward. I'll just somehow create a miracle food to sustain nearly 3 billion on Taiwan...*whoosh*

That miracle food's called skyscraper agriculture and genetic engineering!

No one has to go along with what I'm doing! It's just that the old system was not what I signed up for... I mean, it's not realistic nation simulation, and it's hard to justify sticking to modern tech when your nation has a hundred trillion dollar economy and is under threat from a thousand other nations in similar stead... hence nations like SS making a lot of sense in that world, because that's what'd happen to them, much as Dra-pol is what would happen to an isolated authoritarian socialist regime if it was in this NS position... only without the restraint.

It's harder for some nations to behave as if part of the real world than it is for others. In my case I can see that at least a fair few of the relatively small number of nations with which Dra-pol interacts are moving over to this new way of being... in other cases it may be that this little Asia in which we're involved is only part of the RP world some nations face... dropping ninety odd percent of one's population and sticking to realistic technologies and deployments would probably screw things up for some nations/players.

On a complete tangent, I would have thought it rather hard for a Japan using modern systems to support a fleet much larger than the more basic one that existed during a state of total (and crippling) war, but then I've not exactly researched the matter.

I'm finding as I re-organise my own forces (apart from realising how total would have been our victory, previously, because there really was no way for anything to survive our first strike, hence the need for change) that Dra-pol's now in a more difficult situation than even becoming proportionally smaller than competing nations would normally mean... suddenly the proportion of our population that is living under occupation has ballooned. I mean, it's probably going to be a few years before we can safely and fully integrate the southern population base into the Unified People's Army, because we can't be sure who's happy to be reunited with his countrymen and who's planning to blow up his barracks in the name of multi-party democratic government or a brother killed in the war.

For now I'm assuming a lot of the figures that I'm working up are theoretical strengths. The units we've created would at full strength total 1.4million men and women in the UPA, but in reality probably a third or some portion of the units are under strength.

That miracle food's called skyscraper agriculture and genetic engineering!

Mh, yeah, and to me that's part of the quandary. In the modern world that I'm here to play creation of, the technologies to support these populations and budgets could only be created by nations that already have them and their associated resources to back them up.

On a complete tangent, I would have thought it
rather hard for a Japan using modern systems to support
a fleet much larger than the more basic one that existed
during a state of total (and crippling) war, but then
I've not exactly researched the matter.

They would be able to construct and support the fleet, but they would rely heavily on imported raw materials and large, well-protected stores/staches of the aforementioned materials. Oil, rubber, tin, and certain types of scrap metal are what they would need the most to support the fleet and which aren't readily available in Japan proper, and thus is sort of creates a cycle: Japan needs the imported resources to fuel the navy and needs the navy to protect those imports. I will just assume we got some foreign aid to jump start our naval program until it got to the point where it could be supported by pre-existing, built up stores of raw materials. And this isn't too much of a jump, considering how many rather powerful allies that not only Japan has, but Japannese Islands has.

Why don't we just get the old thread rolling again?

But Chinese grown Products! We would gladly sell to anyone! Except Japanese Islands of course since they have plenty. We also sell a lot of raw materials such as coal, and such. We are North CHina, and you know we have much resources.

Since I'm RPing from Canada's position... I got lots of stuff to give eh?

I mean, with all the stuff Canada has, I have to become a major trading partner eh?

That is .. if you can overcome the Canadian accent eh?

Yes, Hudecia, you have much we want... start pulping the BC rainforests and shipping them over to support Spyr's publishing industry! Its not like trees really gain you anything, is it? You could just house more immigrants on the new swathes of bare land!

As for Japan's fleet... Im a student of Japanese history, an undergraduate to be sure, but I have looked into the matter to some extent. Japan's social structure at the outset of the war was highly oppressive, to say the least. In essence, each individual was already being treated as a cog in the war machine, a trend which had been intensifying throughout the late 30s and continued until surrender. There were beatings, executions, and 'thought police' to ensure sufficient popular dedication to the war effort, which was supported by rampant propaganda that, as evidence has shown, was not fully believed by the general populace. All of this allowed a focus on production of war materials, including much of the Japanese fleet and related technologies. In essence, the maintenance of that fleet came at great social and resource cost to Japan, even before full embargoes on fuel and metals were imposed.

It is true that, given fuel and scrap metal, Japan could possibly support such a fleet, but one must remember that it was a nation pushing just before and during a war, to build a fleet that could compete with several nations that were larger than it in terms of population and production, where its only hope was to put everything it could into one war that would secure it a steady future as an industrialised empire. Japanese naval policy reflects this... it was not a fleet that could continue to exist at those levels in the long term. Such factors must be taken into consideration.

Believe it or not Spyr, our policy on rainforests is pretty balanced, selective felling ensures that our timber is top quality (albeit a little more expensive). And we have plenty of land up north in the NWT and Yukon for all those adventerous immigrants of ours (I'm kidding.. sort of.. we're expanding living up there as the permafrost begins to melt)

Hey if Alaska can have more people than all the Canadian territories combined, why can't we get more people up there.

Japan is the kinda country that can do somethign really outstanding, but it won't last too long compared to other countries. Now if it had the resources of China, then, by all means, Japan-world.

Well, Dra-pol, Hudecia, and Marimaia are in a new region now... 's nothing fancy yet, but for those who've expressed interest in moving, there y'go.

...I've forgotten the next thing I was going to say.

Wow...according to the CIA factbook, Marimaia has oil and natural gas (wahoo!), as well as tin, rubber and iron ore. I can see why Japan wanted the area in WWII.

Not that any of that has a bearing on why the CPRD loves you so much. Here, have some more soju, may I launch a satellite for you? Name a small mountain after anybody?

:)

Not that any of that has a bearing on why the CPRD loves you so much. Here, have some more soju, may I launch a satellite for you? Name a small mountain after anybody?

:)

::gulps down soju::

Aw, we wuvs our Dwa-pol...

Unfortunately, we already launch our own satellites (and we put a man in space a while back), so you can name a small mountain after our beloved Premier. Suuny Peak, or Mount Suun, or something like that.

Any act of mutual love we can perform for you? A new plane for Hotan? Or a yacht? What about a yacht? A big shiny yacht, with three Marimaian women of loose virtue (or three Marimaian men, if Hotan wants to experiment). You know you want to. Go on. Go on. Ah, go on. Well, it's being delivered anyway. Enjoy!

Just load it up with oil and coat it in rubber, my good man!

The yatch, I mean. That sounded sort of wrong.

Ok.. now .. that right there.. that was messed up...

LOL

What type of natural resources does Spyr have?

Well, Spyr isnt very happy when it comes to a lot of resources... there is lumber, though government regulation makes domestic purchasing quite costly (anyone out there who has forests and a willingness to clear cut, the Spyrans will love you!). Theres a lot of silver and iron, along with a few other minerals, and Spyr has a substantial steel production industry for export.

Natural gas and oil are not too common, with smaller pockets that are harvested for domestic consumption. Spyr has thus develloped large nuclear and hydro power stations, and is a major exporter of energy to the rest of the peninsula. The Yamakiro Oil Field in the north of Spyr/south of North Yaman is harvested by Spyr for domestic consumption. NY, which hasnt developed much civilian need for oil, harvests it for state use (I think... I'm not familiar with the exact details of his oil policy). Oil imports are thus rather large in Spyr.

Spyr's primary 'resources' are not raw materials, but finished goods. Textiles are a major export, with huge quantities of silk and cotton cloth (and related clothing) being produced. Another substantial part of Spyran production are electronics and related services... computers, digital cameras, cellular phones, fibre-optic cable, software, etc.

The publishing industry is another finished-goods sector of the economy. Spyrans voraciously consume newspapers, comics, and books (as in read them, not eat them...).

Spyr does have two key areas where imports are important. The first is in terms of pulp for paper production, where cheap imports keep book costs down and lessen environmental protests. The second is in agriculture: Spyr has experienced rampant migration from the rural farming areas to the urban centres, as rural youths seek better opportunities. Spyr also provides almost negligible subsidies and protections for domestic agriculture, making imported foodstuffs often much cheaper than domestic.

Spyr also produces a LOT of bicycles.

Which is really to say that Spyr doesnt have much of an excess of natural resources for export.

Well.. the foodstuffs I can export to you, cheap lumber may be a little harder to get, but I'm sure we can work around those cumbersome environmental protection laws. LOL..

In return, some of those electrical technologies may be nice.

Maybe we should introduce trade negotiations?

Any Marimaia-style spurt of elation I felt at discovering RL Vietnam's oil and gas reserves was quickly stiffled when I realised that Sangun's economy probably requires 4 times the energy...so much for self sufficiency!

In terms of resources/imports/exports, I've re-jigged the CIA's data for vietnam to better reflect my nation- after all, I'm no longer an oil exporter (however minor) but I do produce more manufactured goods and automobiles...

Oh, speaking of trading...do any of your nations have access to uranium oxide for powerstations?

Canada does. So I guess that means I do too.

Now that we are talking about realism again, I am very interested in getting involved, I am willing to scale back the population of Hamhung to around 5-8 million and will also take control of the Phillipines, it was assumed that I found a string of islands a few threads ago, and that could be them. What is the population of the Phillipines, anyway? I would use their RL population and assume that 35% are Dra-pol ex-pats and the rest native Philliponoes, with a large East Indian population as well, and maybe a 5% Quinntonian presense.
Now Hudecia, I always assumed that Quinntonia proper, the mother country of Quinntonian Dra-pol was Canada, or at the very least western Canada. But I do know that we decided probably two threads ago that I would RP the land mass of the USA, except with smarter, more polite people who love good beer, hockey and saying eh a lot. I won't jump right in yet but I would love permission to become more involved again, as I was one of the original Dra-pol antagonisers, participated in their first three NS wars, killed their old Director, imprisoned his son, subjegated their most populous city, and has been at least somewhat involved, directly or indirectly in every Dra-pol thread since the beginning. (taking a bunch of land and people from psycho islolationists will do that)
What do you guys think?
WWJD
Amen.

Why don't we just get the old thread rolling again?

!

We could say that Canada subjugated much of western USA during and after the War of 1812 and that the collapse of the Canadian Empire produced Hudecia and Quinntonia as well as the irrelavant nations in the east.

Or I'd be willing to negotiate where my nation is.

We could say that Canada subjugated much of western USA during and after the War of 1812 and that the collapse of the Canadian Empire produced Hudecia and Quinntonia as well as the irrelavant nations in the east.

If that happened, then you can probably consider Texas as seprate country, and New Mexico, Arizona and California still part of Mexico... I doubt Canada, or some Canadian Spawn of Western North America would have randomly gone to war with Mexico like the USA did in 1848.

Too many What-ifs...
How about Quinntonia just plays the USA?

On the point of realism, all of the wars of imperialism I've fought for the past year or so have been for one sole purpose: Find somewhere on the RL map that will support my entire population. I tried invading Japan, then Yemen, then... well, by then I gave up, though by then I'd gained quite a reputation as an imperialist, which still sticks.

Of course, no where on Earth can really support my entire nation. About 50 years ago, as many people lived in the entire world as now live in Bonstock.

But what really amazes me is that I've RPed a passage of time of no more then 40 years, in which time my population shot up from about 50 million to 2.8 billion. Really, there should be a great famine in Bonstock, but somehow we still keep growing.

I've always thought about screwing RL Earth and moving my nation to some better location. Somewhere far across the galaxy. I actually have a vague idea on my mind, whereby Maropian Coast gets nukes, and theres a nuclear showdown between Bonstock and its colony, Lord Harald is killed with most of the rest of the populations of the two, and the survivors escape in spacepods and colonize some far off, distant planet. Of course, now I'd have to RP as a space nation. Which isn't easy, because its a minority.

What really sucks is that I've never really defined where on RL Earth Bonstock is. We have a map of our location, in our region Wysteria, but Wysteria has no RL location. I've always figured perhaps Bonstock is an island in Micronesia or something. But imagine nearly three billion people living on, say, Guam? I don't think that's possible, even with sky-scraper agiculture and genetic engineering. You just can't fit that many people in that little of an area.

And then there's Maropian Coast, supposedly a really small sliver of Taiwan. How do I fit 3 billion people in an area no larger then Hong Kong?

Perhaps I'll just say a few million people live in MC, and a few million live in Bonstock. The rest have immigrated to dozens of space colonies, where they can live free of the restrictions of RL Earth space. I'll limit Bonstock's population to something sensible, like 100 million, where it was when I started RPing back in June/July '03. MC can be 5 million or so. That will make things more sensible, and allow me to have compulsory military service without being called a godmodder.

As for location... Is the western US taken?

I think we had just found a new owner for the western part of USA. Quintonnia wanted it. Read his post please.

Chuang Han China.. it was partly meant as a joke... there would be no way that Canada could take over western USA seriously during 1812. But then again, do you think that USSR/Russia would actually let LRR separate? or do you think that Canada would allow the western part of the country to separate?

We shouldn't have to limit ourselves in our RPing except in our resources both human and natural.

Hmm.... Did you want to RP as a group of islands Bonstock? In which case you could take Indonesia, Malaysia, or something along that sort.

Or did you want to be Australia?

I think we had just found a new owner for the western part of USA. Quintonnia wanted it. Read his post please.

Eh, skrew this. What about Alaska?

Any objections Quintonnia to letting Bonstock have Alaska?

Any objections Quintonnia to letting Bonstock have Alaska?

ooc: Hey, can I have Hawaii too?

Hawaii, too? Imperialist! ;)

Anyway, as Spyr said a few posts back, we are heavily reliant on imported raw materials, and any mass embargo or blockade that kept things from getting in would cause another WWII-type attempt at expansion.

The navy is a very important part of the Japannese Islands, and it has number one priority in maintenance. Essentially, my nation is a less oppressive and murderous version of Japan circa WWII.

N. Korea - Dra-Pol
S. Korea - South Hanguk
Japan - Japanese Islands
North China, Xinjiang - Xiaguo
South China, Tibet - Sino
South Western China - Chuang-Han
Taiwan - _Taiwan
Vietnam - Sangun
Canada - Hudecia
The United States, Philipines - Quinntonia
Indonesia, Maropian Coast, Guam, Alaska - Bonstock


NOTE:Please post here if I'd left you out.

You forgot dearie old LRR. (Eastern part of Russia).

If I am to take control of the USA, I would like the whole of the USA. I wouldn't really like to give up Alaska, and definately could not give up Hawaii, seeing as my whole Pacific Fleet would be launched from there. Oh, and I think that would put Guam under my protection as well, but I am willing to negotiate on that piont.

As for Hudecia, take all of Canada, with the modern population, and I will take the States, I do love your West Wingesque peeks into the back chambers of the Parliament, and couldn't do it as well.
So, I will lay claim officially to;
Quinntonia=USA with a population of the modern States, which is what? 293 million or something?
And Quinnotnian Dra-pol= Hamhung and the Phillipines= population of Hamhung, 6 million and poulation of the Phillipines=80 million
WWJD
Amen.

You forgot me too:

Thailand, Laos, Cambodia - Marimaia


Myanmar would probably be dubbed 'anarchy', due to the current mess it's in.

Wow.. that's a long list Quintonnia... kinda makes all us little guys pale in comparison.

What about Malaysia?

N. Korea - Dra-Pol
S. Korea - South Hanguk
Japan - Japanese Islands
North China, Xinjiang, Mongolia - Xiaguo
South China, Tibet - Sino
South Western China - Chuang-Han
Taiwan - _Taiwan
Vietnam - Sangun
Canada - Hudecia
The United States[including Alaska and Hawaii], Phillipines, Guam - Quinntonia
Indonesia, Maropian Coast[Hualien] - Bonstock
Eastern Russia - Lunatic Retard Robots
Thailand, Laos, Cambodia - Marimaia

I've decided to take Mongolia since nobody is going to role play it, so mind as well, and if anyone dissagrees or wishes to have it, I will be happy to compromise or just give it to you.

Well, not everything must be claimed right away. We can have none player controlled nations sitting around in the background for a time, and eventually new players might turn-up.

Isn't South Hanguk gone?

Quinntonia is also still in control of Hamhung/Hungnam on the east coast of Dra-pol, too, though efforts are on-going to secure the return of that territory. That really covers me for possibly rating my population a bit lower than it ought to be- large numbers of defectors populated the Quinntonian colony, and it's unclear how many will ever be returned to the CPRD's population.

I can't think straight... not well... come back later... time for more tea.

Yeah, 80 million in the Philippines is a lot to add onto almost 300 million in the US.
Hudecia, I think you have something with Malaysia as an alternative, population 23, 522, 482 as of 2004. I will take that as an alternative if it is all right, with Hamhung representing 5 million.
That would leave a nice sized nation with a population of 86, 241, 697 for Bonstock to use as his. That would kind of fit the climate/ island geography of his past RPs. (Not that I would presume to dictate to Bonstock, who was one of the first in NS to show me kindness when I first showed up on NS, remember Bishop Robert Schultz IV, head of our Diplomatic Corps? I am just trying to make a suggestion.)
I am also pretty exited about an active Mongolian presense in the area.
WWJD
Amen.

East Asia is looking pretty full these days :)

I seem to remember some plans for a regional map; how is that progressing?

I think we should iron out this Quintonnia / Bonstock thing first.

East Asia is looking pretty full these days :)

I seem to remember some plans for a regional map; how is that progressing?


We're not a region (Although some of you have moved to a region), we're an RP group.

We're not a region (Although some of you have moved to a region), we're an RP group.

I wasn't aware it was so necessary to make the distinction...I take it this means that some of you are not planning to move to Dra-pol's new region...?

I believe a good deal of us are already in established regions we do not wish to leave (Like China, which Sino, Xiaguo _Taiwan and myself are in)

Yeah, there's no desperate need for people to move. The region I created might well end up incorporating nations from around the world, too, so I'm not sure if there'll be a single map for it... but it shouldn't be too hard to come up with an Asian map, anyway. Like Sangun implied, we don't have to be in the same Region for a map to exist, do we?

I started making one, and might get back to it if no one else has already done it.

Dra-pol,
My nation is in the Middle East (Kuwait, Southern and Central Iraq, Northern Saudi, Bahrain, Sinai, Jordan and Eastern Egypt) but we also control overseas territories, notably Brunei in East Asia and other islands and atolls. We fully recognise your claims and perhaps, when an oppurtunity arises, our nations will be able to RP together.

Well, Quinntonia, you pretty much own the Pacific with that. But I can compromise.

If given Indonesia, Malaysia, and Singapore. That would satisfy me.

To clarify my earlier statements, I don't see that there is any problem with certain nations remaining in regions such as China. As long as we all know who they are (in the case of China it shouldn't be hard ;) ) it works just as well.

However an Asian/Pacific/whatever map would be a good way of cementing things.

Oki doki...

It seems that Bonstock and Quinntonia have sorted out their problems...

And I'll take over all of Canada.

The next issue would be South Korea (or rather, what is left of it). I guess I'll either start up some puppet nation and RP from their perspective as well as RPing Hudecia's (which may cause me to argue with myself sometimes, but hey we all do that right?.... no we don't! .... yes we do! ... no we don't!!) or just state that its under my control and go from there.

South Korea would have about 5-10 million people left.. assuming the rest either are dead or have fled the country. These people are steadfast in two things, their hatred of Drapol and in their absolute poverty. I'll RP accordingly.

Another issue is that we should all post our populations so here goes:

Hudecia/Canada - 35 million
Hudecia/South Korea - 7 million

Drapol/N. Korea - 40 million

Marimaia/Laos, Thai, Cambodia - 84 million
Marimaia/Burma (parts of Burma annexed by Marimaia) - 11 million

TBC/Burma - 42 million

Sangun/Vietnam - 82 million

Quinntonia/USA, Philipines - 380 million
Quinntonia/Hamhung - 6 million

Bonstock/Malaysia, Indonesia - (?)

Xiaguo/N. China, Mongolia - 500 million
Xiaguo/Xinjiang - 17 million
Sino/China, Tibet - (?)
Chuang-Han/S. China - 96 million
_Taiwan/Taiwan - 30 million

Japannese States/Japan - 120 million

LRR/East Russia - 25 million (?)

Who are we forgeting... OH MY .. we forgot East Islandia! Where would he go? Umm.. umm... how about Papau New Guinea? Or Micronesia or something.. something tropical...

Lets see. Chuang-Han owns Yunnan, Guangxi (Kwangsi), Hainan... The real life populations of those three combined... I have...

Guangxi: 44,980,000
Yunnan: 42,880,000
Hainan: 7,780,000
Total: 95,640,000

I was already of thinking of using this anyway, since Yunnan, Hainan and Guangxi happen to be three of the poorest regions for farming in China... There would be scary famine if 670 million (C-H's NS population) were crammed in there!

There's my population, which I had earlier posted.


I was always thinking East Islandia was something like Ceylon (Sri Lanka), Lol.

Sangun's population officially is 82,689,518 as of July 2004.

Speaking of figures, if anyone would like more info about Sangun, some demographic and economic statistics can be found on my very-much-a-work-in-progress website at: http://www.freewebs.com/sangun/

Population of Xiaguo

Mongolia - 2,751,314
Xiaguo proper -
Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region - 23.07 million
Liaoning Province - 41.16 million
Jilin Province - 26.10 million
Heilongjiang Province - 37.28 million
Rest Approximate excluding Xinjiang - 500 million
Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region - 16.89 million

Marimaia/Laos, Thai, Cambodia - 84 million
Marimaia/Burma (parts of Burma annexed by Marimaia) - 11 million

TBC/Burma - 42 million


The Burma situation is still being decided, but that is how it should look when we're all finished. I've rounded the populations off to the nearest million.

We understand the issues going on with your lands and what you have claimed, but please do not bother the Lands of the Japanese People, let us own our Japanese Mainland, Okinawa Islands, Some Islands in the Pacific and Hokkaido. We also have already claimed the lands I just wrote and have settlements of cities located there. So we have a solid claim over these lands.

We would also like to point out that we are just a small humble nation of the population of 9 million, so we try to avoid much conflict as we can between other nations.

-Japanese delegate
Ryu Hazuki

OCC - The lands my Nation owns - http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/ni-ka/japanmap-en.asp

All the lands in the cream color are owned by my nation. You can see that even the little small islands on the bottom of the map is owned by Japan also.

Why only 9 million, Hazuki-san? Does your nation not rule the entire population of the lands you claim?

We like the map though- it's even possible to make out our dynasty's ancestral homeland...

Spyr's population is likely around 100 million, given the other #s and an attempt to have realistic statistics match past RP matters.

Well, Quinntonia, you pretty much own the Pacific with that. But I can compromise.

If given Indonesia, Malaysia, and Singapore. That would satisfy me.

I am agreeable to this, I just don't want to be seen as being greedy, if you want the Philippines, I would more than happily take something smaller, like Malaysia or something, but if you are happy, then I am happy.
WWJD
Amen.

Well, Quinntonia, you pretty much own the Pacific with that. But I can compromise.

If given Indonesia, Malaysia, and Singapore. That would satisfy me.

I am agreeable to this, I just don't want to be seen as being greedy, if you want, I would more than happily take something smaller, like Malaysia or something, but if you are happy, then I am happy.
WWJD
Amen.

We understand the issues going on with your lands and what you have claimed, but please do not bother the Lands of the Japanese People, let us own our Japanese Mainland, Okinawa Islands, Some Islands in the Pacific and Hokkaido. We also have already claimed the lands I just wrote and have settlements of cities located there. So we have a solid claim over these lands.

We would also like to point out that we are just a small humble nation of the population of 9 million, so we try to avoid much conflict as we can between other nations.

-Japanese delegate
Ryu Hazuki

Sorry, but I am playing the islands of Japan in this RP, though if you like we can work out some sort of compromise (you can have the Ryukyu Islands maybe?)

I'll have a compromise, but it'll have to be fair for both sides, we'll have to split it in direct half instead of one of us owning the Japanese Mainland.

I'll take Southern Japan, you take Northern with Hokkaido.

Overall, I'm willing to take a compromise.

Why only 9 million, Hazuki-san? Does your nation not rule the entire population of the lands you claim?

We like the map though- it's even possible to make out our dynasty's ancestral homeland...

9 million being spread around all of Japan, but the Japannese Islands and I are working out a compromise with Japan and then maybe when we split it in half, my 9 million will fill Japan.

Although I find it fair to split Japan because my population is fairly small to handle all of Japan.

9 million people in the southern half? Are you kidding me? Have you ever BEEN to Japan?

Due to your small population, and coming in so late, I am not willing to give up a disproportionately large part of Japan.

Look at yours, 10 million is about the same as mine, what will you fill up with that much?

I'm 100% Orthodox Japanese, I know about my heritage, religion and HISTORY.

You really shouldn't get angry just because someone else is Japanese, I highly doubt you are Japanese, I think you're just interested in Japan.

Ahh, I see now that another Japan has turned up...that explains my confusion...anyway

Japanese People: Japannese Islands had declared his intention to play as Japan very early on in the development of this group (believe me, if he hadn't you might now be dealing with me ;) ) so regardless of your nationality and feelings, I have little doubt that the rest of this esteemed company will come down on his side.

So my advice is to take his offer, and be thankful (in many ways I'd rather be playing a small piece of Japan than Vietnam, which I know very little about...)

Well, I'll put all my hands down, I'll take Ryukyu Islands and all the other small islands. (Shall we share the Okinawa Islands?) :)

But we'll have to conclude a deal of that you will not invade any of my lands or claim them. This is for my nation's safety. :)

1) I am Japanese, I live near Tokyo, thank you very much.

2) Actually, my nation is close to 2 billion. It just had a distinctly non-Japanese sounding name and couldn't log on to the forums (see the Known Problems page, Problem 1, Update 6). Therefore, I created this account for the roleplaying of Japan, using the current population.

3) I am willing to give you all of the Ryukyu Islands, including Okinawa, and how about some shared territory on Kyushu?

Japannese People: Could you provide a RP record of yourself?

1.) I 確切地是興趣非常在日本並且在其它事繼承、宗教和所有事您住在日本, 但我懷疑它相信替代。在日本或任何地方您未居住在那近處。國家繼承, 文化和宗教和有關與某事不知道根本。您不知道根本。這是某一人。這是真相。上帝但, 沒人知道一切。

2.) Ohh, ok so that makes sense

3.) I agree, I am happy to share Japan with you. Thanks again! I'm happy with what you offer. :)

Maybe I should explain some things since "Japanese People" seems to be confused.

This is an RP group, meaning we're not just claiming lands, but we intend to RP with each other as events unfold in our countries.

We're basing our populations NOT on our NationState populations, but on the population of the REAL LIFE locations. IE: The nation playing Vietnam has the population of Vietnam, not his Nation's population.

So then my nations population in RP's will actually be 126,925,843 (which is Japan's actual population in real life) instead of 9 million?

Does this go for all RP's by the way? :confused:

sorry for my confusion. . .

A population of 25 million is probably accurate...more or less. I figure, since most of Russia lives west of the Urals, the eastern part, especially the part up bordering the pacific, should be relatively sparsely populated. Mabye between 20 and 30 million, since I'm very open to immigration.

Hey, mabye to get things going we could have some proxy war or something? mabye down in Malaysia or Indonesia? New Guinea?

There's probably a reasonable communist insurgency ready to get stirred up there by some subversive Dra-pol elements. Hudecia et. co. could go in to fight the insurgency, Dra-pol could send in some Banat or Red Bamboo, and I would probably send in an amphibious task force to try and sort matters out.

So then my nations population in RP's will actually be 126,925,843 (which is Japan's actual population in real life) instead of 9 million?

Does this go for all RP's by the way? :confused:

sorry for my confusion. . .


No, just RP's with us, but "Japannese Islands" already is taking the position of Japan. So you two have to work out something. Then whatever you work out (Like if you got half of Japan, and he got the other half) you'd have the real life population of the area you got. BUT ONLY for RP's within this RP group. This is NOT a land grab, it's just an RP group in Asia and the Pacific.

So when you say "just RP's with us." What is that supposed to mean? Is there a specific place you become a nation and use its real population? Sorry, I'm still confused


Oh yeah and I get all of Japan's islands, but "Japannese Islands" gets Japanese Mainland with Hokkaido. While I get Ryukyu Islands, Okinawa and the other islands, we both share Kyushu. But if I own less lands than he does, I can't support 126,000,000 people on it in this RP, or can you just imaginate a little and just fit 126,000,000 people on small islands?

Can you please explain to me the whole form of when to use the real nations population and when not to and if you should land grab or not. (If you come up with a made-up name for a nation, and that nations population is like 7 million, they use that right?) :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

You can choose whether to use the real population of the Ryukyu Islands and the joint rule of Kyushu (about 15 million) or not.

Japanese people, this situation os for this RP ONLY! Perhaps you should seek some experience in another RP for awhile and see how you like it before you get into this, I don't want you to get overly confused and frustrated.
However, if the two of you can sort this out, I will happily RP with the both of you. But you must know, this is completely Japanese Islands call. He claimed all of Japan, and by rights, has no need nor responsibility to hand over any of his soveriegn national territory to anyone.
Dra-pol, what do you think?
WWJD
Amen.

Hm! I never really expected many new RPers to become interested in this when I decided to revert to a minimal population.

I'm inclined to think that this settles the Sinoese question of whom exatly is Asia's most influential RPer... 's me! Even if Dra-pol, due to its isolationist nature, isn't all that politically influential. What have I done?!?

Erm. Japan... I don't know... anybody who wants to play as Japan can play as Japan, but for sanity's sake it is hard to recognise more than one of them... erk. I knew it was too good to be true that so few of us had conflicting territorial claims.

Well, Dra-pol hasn't had any major modern dealings with Japan, so I don't know what to say! It's not my universe! Damn!

Well, presently I am forced to claim ALL of Japan, as it is necessary for the Civil War RP I am doing, but after that ends we can work out some sort of joint sovereignty. Maybe. I don't know.

Whoa.. this is confusing now... there is a Japanese People and a Japannese Islands... hmm.. I'll have to watch more carefully from now on.

Japanese People isn't in our RP group yet Hucedia.

Reminder:I have annexed Xinjiang back into China. Also, Mongolia is up for grabs, however, I will kind of drive away from it as much as I can during a RP, but I will basically controll its government.

I am willing to compromise Xinjiang away.

New Asia Conference, for all Asian nations and Influencial nations in Asian Affairs, NOT AN ALLIANCE OR CLUB Just a Conference

This is to talk about Alliances with each other, Such as the, Chinese Pledge Alliance (Sino, taiwan, Xiaguo, and Chuang-Han), Trade, regarding who and what we are trading and who we are trading with.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7077809#post7077809

I was going to make a post in the related rading thead, however, it has become quite confused.
I am now going to make a request that a final canonised list of the territories involved be drawn up by Dra-pol. This should include territories claimed and their modern populations. I think we should have this done by Friday so that we can begin a few "Modern World" threads over the weekend and start putting this idea that we have into action.
(Dra-pol, I don't mean to put all the work onto you, but your final word will carry more wieght)
PS-Do we have any plans in the works to post a finalised map?
And, Dra-pol, if you are indeed the most influencial Asian RPer, then I am proud to be the Ultimate Thorn in the side of the Most Influencial Asian RPer!
WWJD
Amen.

Sino (South China) is operated by a militant nationalist government (under the Sinoese Military Junta). Sino's stance on Dra-pol has been unchanged- crush the scum of Korea!

For the record, LRR's government is a parliamentary democracy with a King as a powerless figurehead, with nothing more to do than sit around and brood over things. Historically, LRR Kings have been prolific philosophers and scientists. Kingship has been offered to The Dalai Lama, Einstein, Nelson Mandela, and Andrei Sakharov, just to name a few.

The government's policies are left-leaning and progressive, although military spending is relatively high. Education is the government's main priority, with health and welfare following.

LRR culture is a mish-mash of the wide variety of ethnic groups who have settled in its territories, more because of the promise of cheap land than anything else. Major population centers are in the south-central part of the country, where the climate is mild enough to grow quite a bit of food, and near the coast where there is fishing and shipping.

I was wondering if we have come close to codifieing the land claims, it seems as if most things have been worked out now, is everyone happy with what they have?
WWJD
Amen.

Greetings nations of Asia, hello again _Taiwan- it's been a long time...

Having observed your nations over the past week I've noticed that you seem to be a 'closed' group- is this correct? If so, and realising that it might be rather late in the day, would there possibly be a little space for me- I did at one point have contact with _Taiwan, so if they remember me they can hopefully testify that I'm not a complete moron...

Having only recently returned to the NS forums I've discovered just how hard it is to find a decent and remotely realistic RP for an Asian nation (I do find it a little off putting to try to negotiate with my theoretical neighbours in 'Japan' when they are called the Unified Sith, and seem more interested in fighting in the coreworlds...but perhaps that's just me), so I would appreciate being allowed to participate in however small a way.

Anyway, thanks for reading...

Heh, gosh, when I started all of this I was just trying to decide exactly who bordered Dra-pol, because I'd been using a none-player-controlled PR China in the past.

I certainly didn't mean to entirely exclude people from... Asia.

Wait...so let's get things straight-

Are there population caps in our little RP clique here? Would NS be any less absurd without them?

Can we still interact with nations outside our little RP clique?

Is our little group here open for all who want to join for as long as we exist?

I've had a thought (yes I can hear the collective sighs of dread...:))

In the past I've generally set my location as the Izu Islands, quietly ignoring the impossibility of having a large population there. However, with realistic populations that probably wouldn't work, added to which the nation representing Japan (I'm somewhat confused as to who that is...) probably wouldn't like it much! This started me thinking about where else O&I could plausibly go...

In summary, is New Zealand currently unoccupied? With a larger population (maybe 50 million?) that would suit my purposes quite nicely.

Of course this is your show and I'm a latecomer, so if you guys have any comments etc then please let me know. Thanks

I've had a thought (yes I can hear the collective sighs of dread...:))

In the past I've generally set my location as the Izu Islands, quietly ignoring the impossibility of having a large population there. However, with realistic populations that probably wouldn't work, added to which the nation representing Japan (I'm somewhat confused as to who that is...) probably wouldn't like it much! This started me thinking about where else O&I could plausibly go...

In summary, is New Zealand currently unoccupied? With a larger population (maybe 50 million?) that would suit my purposes quite nicely.

Of course this is your show and I'm a latecomer, so if you guys have any comments etc then please let me know. Thanks

I can't remember anyone claiming New Zealand. Oceania is an important area as far as Asia is concerned, so having someone to RP the 'Down Unders' would be useful.

I would ask that we try and keep to the more realisic side of things in regards to populations, resources etc, other than that, I can't see any problem.
WWJD
Amen.

Yep!Go for it.

Uhh, for a note.

Xiaguo's full name is, The People's Constitutional Parliament of China
Xiaguo's short name is, Xiaguo Guo, or Ming Guo.

Xiaguo is currently under the Ming Dynasty, which has vowed to regain the greatnest of China throughout history. Xiaguo's government is similiar to the French, American, and British governments. The Emperor is the forever leader of China until he either dies, or passes on the seat. The Emperor heads the Royal Parliament. The Prime Minister acts as the link of the Emperor from the Royal house, to the National Commitee. All Ministries are headed by the Royal House, however, regulations and laws are to be passed by both houses. The Provincial governments and city governments are directly controlled by the National House. The Ministry of War and Defense however is ruled by both houses strongly. The Royal house has 2 elected parliamentaries from each province, 2 more are choson by the province and given the 'ok' by the Emperor. The National House consists 3 elected congressman, an additional 2 members are also appointed by the provincial governments for every 3 million people within each province. Xinjiang, however, only has 4 appointed officials. Martial law and occupational duties have been completed and Xinjiang is now a state of China.

Beijing is now the Capital of North China, while Taiping(Shenzhen serves as the Xiannese Proper Capital, which rules as a special regional government.

QD-P: when you say that population, resources etc, what sort of limits are we talking about?

O&I is evidently intended as a Japanese-style nation, and so my idea was to use New Zealand's landmass (some 260 000 square km), but with the UK's population (60 million).

My reasoning is as follows:

The Uk has an area of 245,000 km2, and a population of 60 million; thus the population density is 245 people per km2.

Japan has an area of 378,000 km2, and a population of 127 million for a density of 336 people/km2.

Under my plan, O&I will have an area of 268,000 km2 with a population of 60 million, for a density of 224 people/km2.

NZ can in my view support such a population, especially if the coastal plains are subject to Japanese style development. Now I am keenly aware that most of you are adopting strict RL populations so I'm not intedning to be too difficult about this point. However I don't think my nation would really carry across with a population of only 4 million (I would basically have to disband my entire armed forces).

Well anyway that's where I'm coming from; I really hope it isn't a big problem and I'm obviously open to suggestions.

****

Oh, one more question: would it be possible for me to move into Dra-Pol's new region?

Well, Im certainly hoping that strict RL populations arent enforced, since I RP existing on an imaginary landmass in the Sea of Japan, and LRR rules the barren wastes of Eastern Russia.

Arg, realism... such wonderful potential, such difficulty getting the details to work...

I am not saying that we have to be completely strict, and in reality it is not my decision, I was just making a request, amd I have no doubt that New Zealand is capable of supporting that population, and if that be your wish, let it be so. However, I think we should start getting all of these nations straight soon, I had requested by Friday, but we are still getting requests for participation.
Who is making the postings for lists so far? That would probably clear up some of my confusion.
Anyhoo, since everyone is posting their form of governemnt, so will I.
Quinntonia is a Parliamentary Theocracy. It has an elected Parliament that foloows the British/Canadian style with a Senate that sits above that, the Senate is appointed by the Prime Minister, and has to ratify and review any and all bills passed by the Parliament. This is where it goes a little different, atop that, is The Council of Bishops. The Council has fairly broad powers, it can introduce new bills into the Parliament, and must ratify and pass all Bills that have made it through the Parliament and The Senate. The Council of Bishops is apponted or elected by the various Christian Church bodies that they represent according to the amount of parishoners that they have. The church bodies choose how they would like to elect or appoint their representatives, and their are various provisions for non-CXhjristian and independant churches to have a voice within the Council.
Also, the Prime Minister has a seat on the Council for life.
Quinntonian Dra-pol is actually a protectorte of this nation, and as such cannot elect Members of Parliament or have Senaters appointed form within their population, however, their churches, those who have been recognised by the Council that is, all can and do have reps in the Council.
It also has a Provisional House of representatives that looks and acts as a Parliament, that deals with internal matters, but all bills have to be passed through the Quinntonian system and the Quinntonian Dra-poel government is nominally controlled by an appointed Governor-Bishop.

However, Quinntonian Dra-pol is coming leaps and bounds towards self-rule and one of the most hotly debated topics in the House is whether they should become a part of Quinntonia, or decalre a friendly independance, the decision of the Protectorate will be repspected by the Quinntonian government.
WWJD
Amen.

O&I

WHile New Zealand could definately support the population you are suggesting... you would be faced with the problem that Japan is faced with... no natural resources and little area for food cultivation.

In short.. make some big food producing friends fast if you want a population that large.

(ie.... I dunno... ME~!)

Wow, long time no see. *welcomes him back*

Of course we can interact with others LRR.

Oh gosh.
This whole thread was just supposed to be, "Dra-pol is going to play a realistic population, because I can no longer justify weilding the resources granted me by the game engine without using them to wipe all of you off the face of... Asia, because lets face it, if the DPRK were 10,000% more capable, it wouldn't matter that you were equivalent to two or three Chinas, you'd be dead. In future, Dra-pol is going to play in a realistic fashion, and that means you can't interact with me using your full NS-given capacities if you're going to hold them over me in war, commerce, or as part of a diplomatic pressure, but it's fine to interact with me on a character-oriented level."

By this I mean to say that I hadn't properly anticipated a whole movement in support of the principle... this whole mapping Asia thing has rather over-taken me! I didn't mean to take on any responsibility for the nature of other players' nations, merely to see who would and who would not wish to interact with Dra-pol on a national rather than merely individual-character scale. I mean, I don't know that I want this to be just another real-world claims thread.

This was just for my own selfish sake, and it has grown, because I am naive, I suppose. So far as I'm concerned, I've not gained much, thus far! I hardly know my neighbours any better than before. Japan is still confusing, I don't know who I should recognise, China is still confusing because I tihnk that Sino is maybe future tech, and some Chinese-based players haven't gone along with the realism part, which is their right as role players, but I can't recognise it in any martial, economic, or political sense regarding Dra-pol... oh dear.

Well.. I think we are not recognizing Japanese People anymore... and Xiaguo et al in China are kinda only semi-active.

Err, sorry all. I wasn't trying to unravel things...

_Taiwan: I'm still using aicraft derived from your old F-16T...you'll be please to know they gave a good account of themselves in Europe

Dra-pol: personally I'm not suprised your comments have provoked this sort of reaction. There are quite a few people out there who are tired with all the inconsistencies of trying to RP huge unwieldy nations in an unmapped nightmare of a world. At one stage I even developed a modular army orbat that could be quickly expanded every time my population increased by 100 million...it was about then that I took a time out.

Right, as to NZ...this is rather embarrasing to admit but I'm not entirely sure I thought things through that well (it seemed like a good idea when I came up with it at 4 am, but then they always do when you suffer from insomnia :))

I notice that Spyr is located on an imaginary landmass; in that case (and with your permission) maybe it would be better if O&I was simply an extension of the Izu-Shoto. After all, this is a volcanic margin so new land is always appearing...Anyway this will save me the hassle of trying to rename NZ's cities and provinces, in addition to the benefit of keeping me in the area I've traditionally claimed.

Any thoughts are welcome, and once more my apologies for being difficult...

Personally, I'm on your side with creating new landmasses, Izu, but then again I have quite a vested interest in it.

I'm in the unfortunate position of my nation turning into a stretch of ocean should strict real-world geography be enforced. I've spent a great deal of time mapping out and creating the geography, geology, and other details of my little imaginary peninsula, based on research into the area and similar geographic features which actually exist. I share the space with several other nations, some of whom dont get involved extensively in RP, though several of you will be familiar with North Yaman. Thus, I'm quite determined to try and preserve it.

This doesnt change the fact that it doesnt exist... and, if it did exist, that it'd reduce the Sea of Japan to half its RL size and narrow several shipping lanes from open sea to straits between Lyong and Honshu... you can see why it might cause some difficulty.

I'm a big fan of Dra-pol's idea. It'd make things a lot easier to roleplay, and prevent the problem of a nation with a million heavy bombers fighting a nation with a billion infantry, both claiming that the other had no possibility of beating them. As I've said earlier, It'd also solve some 'domestic' RP problems I've been having with North Yaman, as it'd reduce his population to numbers that could undergo realistic reform into a modern nation state (rather than two billon impoverished tribesmen somehow eking out a nomadic existance with a population density of a few thousand per km2). I'm also a big fan of this particular RP clique... Drapoel's unification wars were great to read, and I really enjoyed the Japann war RP with Hudecia, EI, et al. It was certainly an improvement from my 'cold' war with gravship-laser-psychic elves (...ugh...)

So, I must do as I suppose I've done in previous interactions where the world could shift at will... I must leave my nation's existance at the mercy of those who might wish to interact with it, and hope for the best.

http://img32.exs.cx/img32/457/lyongpen.gif
[The Lyong penninsula... roughly... squished into a precarious RL existance...]

I would like to announce a little adjustment in my naval forces:

After a little bit of research, I discovered that the Skjold class vessel, which my Son House is based on, measures only 47 meters, not 60 as I had previously thought. This reduced measurement, coupled with the increased amount of stuff that I am trying to put on the platform, rates such a vessel as a large-ish missile boat, as opposed to a corvette/light frigate.

Therefore, I have decided that its not really worth having any of them. Too much trouble, really. Doesn't fit with the ex-soviet theme.

So my revised revised pops-cap navy is thus:

14 Gotland class D/E attack submarines
110 Buddy Guy class missile FACs/patrol boats (really my attempt to create a do-all coastal defense vessel, which turned out alright)
10 Howlin' Wolf class (modified and visibly lengthened Grisha) corvettes
7 Icebreakers/cutters/seagoing salvage tugs
8 heavy assault hovercrafts
20 smaller assault hovercrafts
27 rescue/environmental monitoring hovercrafts
15 Krivak II frigates
6 Sovremenny II destroyers

2 Ivan Rogov assault ships
4 Ropucha assault ships
9 Type 773 assault ships/LSTs

24 Nimrod MOD ASW/patrol aircraft
5 Tu-142 patrol planes (used for long-range operations)
60 Tornado series maritime attack aircraft
30 Ka-32 ASW helicopters
10 Sea Knight ASW/assault transport helicopters
15 Sea King SAR/patrol helicopters
2 A-40 Patrol Amphibians

The army and airforce are sort of vague.

OOC (to Dra-pol); Because of your '60s Mao tech, our 2010-20 Chinese tech will seem futuristic. LOL! I'm modern tech with my supercarriers and Type 98s.

OOC (to Dra-pol); Because of your '60s Mao tech, our 2010-20 Chinese tech will seem futuristic. LOL! I'm modern tech with my supercarriers and Type 98s.

Well, that's one of the things I like about Dra-pol when he's interacting militarily. He's not just "I send two hundred SCRAMJET cruise missiles equipped with UBERANTIJAMMINGOMGPWNZOR technology at your capital city.

You don't just have these Abrams and boring modern tanks slugging it out; rather you have old T-62s v.s. Abrams and modern tanks.

Myself, I tend to combine the two. I use heavily modified T-55s and T-64s as my primary tank types, while I have technologically advanced and very modern T-SEPs as my APCs and IFVs. In fact, the SEP probably ranks with the best APCs in the world, with all the stuff it can do.

I also use a lot of long-range ATGMs and rocket artillery. Since my tanks are generally inferior to the attacking tanks, I like to have plenty of ways to destroy them. There's the 12km Hellfire II, the 8km, 4km, and 2km Spikes, and the short-ranged RPG-7s, which don't have much utility anymore except against infantry and soft-skinned vehicles. I also use quite a few 100mm anti-tank guns, 112mm anti-tank rocket artillery launchers (usually equipped with armor-piercing warheads and quite handily out of tank gun range), larger artillery rockets, larger tube artillery, and a fair amount of recoilless rifles and 73mm cannons ripped off the BMP-1s.

One would be trying to fight lots of small vehicles and infantry teams, and APCs armed with long-range anti-tank weaponry with big, monstrous main battle tanks in a hilly, semi-forested environment.

Not to mention LRR isn't exactly prime tank country...

My army also acts on the doctrine 'Tanks will be destroyed by air power'.

The best ATGM in the ROCAF is the 700kg 'Sapphire' FAPDS kinetic missile. Going up against roof armour, it pretty much guarantees a kill.

Okay, well, I have no objection to the Lyong Peninsula...

Oh, I meant to say something the other day... another player approached me about South Korea... I've forgotten the name of the account off hand. I'm not sure exactly whether he might want to play as South Korea, or is just interested in inserting another little island in the area to get involved (are you reading? Feel free to chip in).

Anyway, my concerns for technology base are related directly to my decision to play a more realistic population. With limited resources, there's no point trying to somehow win by coming up with flashier uber weapons... if other nations in the modern world can say that their GDP, being six times higher than the real China's, can support the development and construction of more advanced weapons and such, I'm forced back to being more than a hundred times greater than the DPRK in order to compensate. That means nearly a million heavy artillery tubes, more than a hundred million soldiers, the production of probably a few dozen nuclear warheads a year, tens of thousands of warships and planes, and all the other wacky projects like scores of guns that can hit Shanghai/Cheju Do/Tokyo/satellites, and tunnels under flipping Japan and stuff.

Yeah, uhm, so that's my problem with the significantly greater-than-reality stuff.

Dra-pol's entire military is based around the, "why the hell should we care if the bomber-always-gets-through/the-tank-always-loses-out-to-air-power/whatever-other-cliché when we've only one objective and we're already half way there?" doctrine. It's like LRR was saying in another thread about how his missile boats are better than ours. We don't care. Dra-pol's ships, planes, and tanks are disposable. They're pretty much single mission reunification tools.
The assumption being that once we've driven to the south coast and chased everybody away (or killed/captured them), and Korea is unified, nobody will want to bother/risk invading and starting it all over again... or if anyone does, it'll be a severely limited coalition with other states viewing unification under Da'Khiem better than perpetuating a more or less century-old conflict with total war. In the event of that being a mis-calculation, and the 'disposable military' having been spent, the defence would largely be the responsibility of forces like the People's Rear Defence Organisation and in operation akin to that fought during the Crusader Wars. That is, more of a peninsula-wide guerrilla war denying the enemy much chance to use its superior weapons as they're intended. The object being to prove impossible to knock-out, and to sap and drain the enemy while the, "it makes more sense to let the reunification lie" lobby gains momentum.

Well, Xiaguo's millitary has been very well, in secretive operation. I can tell you that our technology is about 5-7 years behind Sino. I am planning a major upgrade of all areas.

Japanese Islands, you wish to open trade with us, we could exchange for millitary equiptment for agricultural goods. I actually wish to open closer relations between Japanese Islands and Dra-Pol.

Dra-pol will probably be found at least partly open to amicability with Xiaguo. The CPRD's goals are entirely Korea-oriented, and so we only make enemies of those who meddle seriously in Korean affairs. We just happen to have a bad reputation because we might possibly have crucified a few thousand of said meddlers and displayed them on our borders and possibly assassinated civilian politicians in guilty states. Perhaps. A bit. In the past.
Anyone willing to accept the Drapoel view that the Korean revolution, begun in 1931, was meant for all Korea and not just the bit that wasn't occupied by the imperial Japanese and later by the Americans, is unlikely to face any threat from the CPRD. Anyone who would prefer to perpetuate the division or the puppeteering of the capitalist west on the peninsula is likely to wake up with a knife to their throat, a bomb under their bed, or a silenced pistol to their head. 's quite simple, really!

Sorta Off Topic: I would argue that problems began in Korea way back in the 1880s when Japanese and Chinese troops both entered the country at will to "Protect" Korea from the other. France, Germany, Britain, Russia, Japan and America all did various things to exploit Korea. And the First Sino-Japanese war which unquestionally put Korea under Japan's influence. I often wonder what would have happen if Korea was just left alone, and the old Kingdom just sat there... Well, anyway, you can argue that the conflict started between China and Japan in the 1880s has essentially been constant in Korea ever since.

I don't really know where I was going with this, it was off topic and I wanted to make a point, but I forget what...

The Sangunese armed forces are essentially halfway between the advanced/western and the numerous/eastern approaches.

I should state that I either use RL equipment (to simulate imported arms) or local variants of RL material. As a result, you can find M1A2s, T-72s and LBT-1s (Sangunese versions of the Stingray II light tank) in my tank pool. As a general rule my indigenous equipement tends to be less high tech than the imports, hence I manufacture my own armoured carriers (essentially local variants of the LAV range) and light tanks but buy in advanced combat aircraft and attack helicopters from abroad. This is basically to simulate the gradual development of a domestic armaments base- frankly any nation serious about defence needs its own arms industry (simply from the point of view of spares- how many times in the RL do we hear about third world countries ending up canibalising their foreign equipment to keep a proportion in service?), yet jumping straight in abuilding adavnaced MBTs or what have you is slightly absurd.

Anyway, my military details are regularly updated on my website:
http://www.freewebs.com/sangun/

I do think we should be extremely strict in using only existing modern technologies. I do that while having variants; ie, I use an equivelent jet fighter that I call the Horseman Mark V; but it really is an F-18. I also use a series of helicopters called the Joshua's, but they are really Apaches. That way I can have realistic combat witha "local" flair.
And as soon as I hear things like just a little future tech; I start to lose interest, even if it is only 2010-20.
But, this is not my RP wolrd, and I am only voicing my opinion.
As for the conundrum that is Spyr, I really have no problem with allowing a small peninsuella to "show up" right in the Sea of Japan, what I do worry about is that with him, he is bringing in a whole region and group of unknown and partially inactive nations, all of whom would have profound effects on the social-economic climate of the area.
Here is how I would solve this, could you assume that the Spyr of this world, just for the purposes of this RP group, is in an alternate world in which there is only one nation on said peninsuella? That way you could continue any and all RP situations without affecting your nation here and vice-versa.
What do you think?
And Dra-pol, the fact that many of these nations are willing to cut their power-base into a fraction of what it was should tell you that you are a talented and respected gamer here and that we want to make these sacrifices in order to continue to RP with you.
Also, I agree that most of us are pretty sick of trying to figure out how we are supporting our 2 billion+ populations on an area 55 km around a city.
WWJD
Amen.

No matter how hard you other states try, the real arms race in Asia is still between Sino and _Taiwan.

Imagine if the armed forces of our RPs are made into an RTS game, would you pick (from the list of units)?

Sino:

- Guo Fu C5ISRAI
- Incredible array of ballistic missiles
- Kick f*ckin' ass MBTs and ZZL-1 HBTs
- J-10, J-12, JH-15 fighters
- Heavy MLRS artillery
- H-8 stealth bombers
- H-7 medium bombers
- Chiang Kai-shek class supercarriers
- Ruthless infantrymen that laugh at the face of death
- Snipers ("One shot, one kill. Sir!")
- General Liu (technically not a unit but good for wacking a few separatists while on the battlefield)

Taiwan:

- Kick ass fighters and bombers
- M1A2s and LAVs
- Medium MLRS
- Infantry that say "Gan!" (f*ck)
- Alinghi class air defense cruiser
- General Zhang
- Protestors (a pillar of democracy)
- Other mean stuff (ask _Taiwan, since I can't remember)

Yeah, because you actually bother to have a major arms race. Good thing I've got a sizeable buffer in the form of Xiaguo between myself and the Sino-_Taiwan area.

As for sacrifices on the altar of RPing, I sort of go my own flexible ways. RL populations when RPing inside the Asian bloc group, NS population when RPing outside.

As for sacrifices on the altar of RPing, I sort of go my own flexible ways. RL populations when RPing inside the Asian bloc group, NS population when RPing outside.

Good thinking, from a hippie. So, if you're a kid playing Clash in the Strait RTS, would you pick Sino or Taiwan?

Dunno. Personally, I'd like to see both of you smash eachother to bits while I watch from my lofty perch in the barren mountains of Kamchatka.

If I had to, I'd go with Taiwan because there isn't the cost of moving millions of soldiers involved...or perhaps there is...are you using RL population or NS population?

With my army, its much more concentrated on being able to destroy tanks than being able to fight them head on. This not only reduces the cost of maintaining a competitive tank force, but also makes better use of the rugged terrain, where there is some. Also useful in the steppe areas because its so flat, and missiles can generally be used to full effect.

I do have a lot of artillery, mostly medium-range MRLs like the GRADLAR and some domestic designs. I also use a copy of the WS-1, which would probably not be of much use in combat if it ever came to it but has a very long range.

The Pzh-2000 howitzer is the primary SPH, and I also use quite a few MT-12 100mm anti-tank guns.

In fact, I believe that I have some reasonable decks in my hand...er...cards...

-T-SEP APC (only the most best)
-Hellfire II long-range ATGM & wide range of carrier vehicles
-Buddy Guy class missile boats, better than you might imagine
-Good fighters & bombers (they can hold their own, but their main advantage is their ability to take off from almost any piece of flat land)
-Long-range, coast-based ASMs (decentralized and hard to totally destroy)
-Gotland MOD attack submarines
-Prolific light anti-tank MRLs
-Prolific light ATGMs
-Good tanks (however few there are)
-Numerous and proficent engineer detachments

But I only ever expect to commit a large amount of troops to national operations, so therefore I focus on defensive-based weaponry. I do have divisions that can go overseas and be effective, but they are much fewer in number than the regular divisions.

The sheer scale of operations in a Sino-LRR operation would be overwhelming. with the deployment of ballistic missiles, you won't stand a chance.

Ah, but dont forget the diplomatic angle... LRR would get a lot of allied support because... well, he's less scary than you.

Sino:

- Guo Fu C5ISRAI
- Incredible array of ballistic missiles
- Kick f*ckin' ass MBTs and ZZL-1 HBTs
- J-10, J-12, JH-15 fighters
- Heavy MLRS artillery
- H-8 stealth bombers
- H-7 medium bombers
- Chiang Kai-shek class supercarriers
- Ruthless infantrymen that laugh at the face of death
- Snipers ("One shot, one kill. Sir!")
- General Liu (technically not a unit but good for wacking a few separatists while on the battlefield)

Taiwan:

- Kick ass fighters and bombers
- M1A2s and LAVs
- Medium MLRS
- Infantry that say "Gan!" (f*ck)
- Alinghi class air defense cruiser
- General Zhang
- Protestors (a pillar of democracy)
- Other mean stuff (ask _Taiwan, since I can't remember)

You're forgetting Bonstocknian equipment:

- Leopard IIS MBT
- CV-90 IFV and dismounts
- HMMWV & crew
- Crusader artillery
- Heavy Expanded Mobility Medium Tactical Truck
- Grossbonstocknia class arsenal ship
- Ste. Evremonde class Missile Destroyer
- Volvgrad class supercarrier
- Seawolf submarine
- B-2 Spirit
- A-10 Warthog
- F-15E Eagle
- C-17 Globemaster III
- KC-10
- BSS agent
- Lord Harald (with special rebirth powers!)

No matter how hard Sino tries, it can't make Dra-pol care about Sino's metal wang.

If I were playing with Dra-pol's listed population, I would find it relatively hard not to blow-up Sino so as to neutralise the made ape waving its club across the Yellow and East China Seas. By which I mean that it seems a bit silly to show off when you only look so superior because the other guys are sitting down.

Even now, Dra-pol would be perfectly happy to wave at ICBMs flying over head to LRR/Sino, and to secure Korea in the meantime. We'd be watching those ballistic trajectories, mind.

Agreed Spyr

- Lord Harald (with special rebirth powers!)

You know that this ain't Lord of the Rings.

Ah, but dont forget the diplomatic angle... LRR would get a lot of allied support because... well, he's less scary than you.

Hey, my country ain't scary. It's always the victim, no matter what.

You're forgetting Bonstocknian equipment:

- Leopard IIS MBT
- CV-90 IFV and dismounts
- HMMWV & crew
- Crusader artillery
- Heavy Expanded Mobility Medium Tactical Truck
- Grossbonstocknia class arsenal ship
- Ste. Evremonde class Missile Destroyer
- Volvgrad class supercarrier
- Seawolf submarine
- B-2 Spirit
- A-10 Warthog
- F-15E Eagle
- C-17 Globemaster III
- KC-10
- BSS agent
- Lord Harald (with special rebirth powers!)

What happened to them littoral carriers (6x F-35s)? Most of the stuff on the list I have equivalents.

Xiaguo has a mix of Taiwanese and Sinoese Technology since I mean, that's where we buy, we are only beginning to make our own weapons.

Apologies for my disappearance- been doing some thinking about the best direction for my nation. Much as I like O&I, it does suffer from the fact that when I created it I didn't even know about the forums (and hence didn't expect to be using it in detailed RP 7 months later...)

First a question for LRR: When you defined your borders in the New Asia Diplomatic Thread, you stated you don't claim the Vladivostok region.

If that is the case, would you mind if I settled in the Primorskiy Kray? That way I'm close to Japan, have more than enough space and can plausibly construct a history resulting from Japan's occupation of the area during the Russian Civil War. If you agree I think I'll follow Japanese island/Tokarev's approach and create a new nation; it might be good to start afresh :)

Hey, my country ain't scary. It's always the victim, no matter what.

hypocrit

I have a question LRR...in real life, how many people live in Eastern Russia? If we're going to be playing entirely RL, which I'm guessing we're not as Lyong still exists, then it probably wouldn't be as scary as the present LRR...I'm just wondering, as I believe I share a border with you to the north.

...And Sino...when have you ever been invaded, or done anything other than yell racist comments and attack other nations?