NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, as the title entails, this is only for the few choice people that are a part of the Menotomy region. It is for general role play purposes. We might have to set up a different forum if there is a major conflict, just to make sure that the main thread doesn't get too cluttered. This will take the place of the messsage board on the Region page.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=6694652&postcount=60
Physical, Political, and warfare map of Menots.

http://www.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=
insert mane after the = sign for a full analysis of your nation.

Ok. I want a cast of characters. That's a "who's who" of Menots.
Tell me who you are, and I'll post your name in this.

Captain Jack's Trousers - Mary A.

The Protectorate of Exponents - Ben W.

The Principality of Juthopia - Dan M

The Commonwealth of Olindo - Nick B.

The Federation of Hastania - Arber K.

The Holy Republic of Cruhad - Nick A.

The People's Republic of Marklund - Ian J.

The Kingdom of Wyczestr - Will B.

The Dominion of Little Ossipee - Shawn M.

The Holy Empire of The Eschaton - Phil L.

The Incorporated States of Burgia - Andrew S.

The Principality of Pecunian - Nick B.

Sniffilis - Becki W.

The Kingdom of Eckerd - Noah W.

The Empire of Oltramar - Matt W.

The Most Serene Republic of Debiana - Chris S.

The People's Republic of Conistonia - Nate B

The Democratic Republic of Arealia - ?

The Rogue Nation of Orthos - ?

The Holy Empire of Bushi Mhon - ?

The Jingoistic States of Izgimmer - Jon

The Theocracy of Lemonade Stickups - A mysterious crime syndicate that is also very cult-ish. Player is unknown to the majority of the group.

The Grand Duchy of Kalabas - Evan C.

Stickups have taken control of a city in Cruhad, and has WMDs, (Unlike someone). They have threatened to use said nukes if attacked.

Ossipee is trying to exersice its right of free trade in the Neutral zone, but Marklund has sent 16 million troops after the measily 1.5 that Ossipee has protecting the construction site of the trading post.

Marklund has taken the inititive and created an anti-terror group called TOOF That is being sent to Cruhad to help fight the Stickups. They have committed 2 million troops to this group.

In response to MArklund's threats, Ossipee has shipped 10 million troops across the harbor to recently abandoned Tonopia, and set up a base in case of war.

If anyone knows what has gone on in the region of Menotomy lately, perhaps they could do a little summary, to bring us all (or at least me) up to date. That'd be sweet. Oh, and good on you, Shawn, for starting this thread!

-Primus Illuminatus Phillip Lobo

Dan M. is Juthopia.

Nick A. Holy Republic of Cruhad

Also, Burgia is Andrew S.

OOC - Onward to RP - people can telegram me the rest of the names.


As the head of the government of Little Ossipee, and the person that acted about quelling the revolt, I find it necessary to inform the other nations of the progress of the peace keeping troops inside the nation of Bombia. It isn't good. The Ossipeean and Wyczestrian troops have been greviously weakened by the rebels' hit and run tactics. We request more assistance in keeping the peace. That means all of you. If the citizens see one country being overthrown, what do you think will happen next in your country? This needs to get taken care of quickly and quietly.
Respectfully yours,
S.M.

Although Marklund regrettfully cannot send troops to aid the rightful revolution taking place in Bombia, we urge any and all nations who have a healthy military to send troops there to aid the resistence. As long as the people in any nation remain oppressed we must all work together to make them free.
Marklund is a peaceful nation, and military is not a priority to us, but we will broker deals for the use of our excellent education system to any nation willing to help in the fight for freedom to all people everywhere.
Parokif Kellanit, Official Voice of the People of Marklund

Ok anyone correct me if i'm wrong, I mainly remember the stuff i was involved in and said so i probably am gonna leave stuff out.

First major event was a terrorist attack in new menotomy, there was some brief discussion which died down.

The second thing that happened was a large scale protest ignited by people from my nation (although it remain untold whether it was government sanctioned or not). These protestors went to the nations who were dictatorships or stuff like that (father knows best, and police states and stuff like that). New Menotomy jailed the people who went there, bombia killed the people, and juthopia (i think it was) simply expelled them. The apparent leader of the whole thing (Stephen Kull) was captured in new menotomy and is now serving a life sentence in a minimum security prison in marklund. Bombia was sanctioned for their actions and multiple nations held vigils or expressed sorrow for the killings.

Last event (i think) Bombia is having a revolution to overthrow the dictator. a few nations sent troops to repress the revolutionaries i think.

Thats all i remember, if anything else happened add to the post.

The Federation Of Hastania is Arber K.

it has been 48 hours since the declaration of the parlament of Burgia. there has been no responce from the armed republic of new menotomy, in the direction of withdrawing there financial trade agreements or there coments. therefore, the nation of burgia will remain on full alert, if new menotomy withdraws trade, it will be war, if they withdraw the comment, it will be peace.

-resolution 125 of the parlament of burgia

sorry for the spelling but it was passed last minute, and the parlament didn't have time to correct spelling.

OOC- Ok... Nate and Nick B are both gone for the next 9 weeks.

I suggest abandoning the insult/mix up story line, because you won't get any answers.

A trade convey, bearing freshly weaved baskets from the Protectorate of Exponents, trundles its dusty way across the arid lands that sit at its border with the Holy Empire of the Eschaton. The drivers, leaving their liberal nation to make this delivery to this foriegn nation known for its less than open minded government, are understandibly nervous as, at the border, they are stopped by an Eschatonic border patrol, riding in a jeep with a mounted, pivoting machine gun. Each gaurd wears a padded combat vest, probably very uncomfortable in the dry heat, and carries an automatic rifle, as well as a sidearm.
A brief conversation is held between the driver of the first truck and the guard in command of the patrol vehicle. Soon the jeep rolls down the line, telling each driver the same thing, that they must follow the jeep to a customs compound where their personal records are to be taken and temporary IDs released.
By order of the Twenty-three Chief Executive Officers all visitors from other countries must register themselves in the new Eschaton Database, employed to cut down on crime. In these troubled times, the Twenty-three maintain, great lengths must be taken to avoid the dangers that threaten the Eschaton and it's people. What with revolutions and terrorist actions, tighter security, both in domestic and foriegn affairs, must be maintained.

After the request from Little Ossipee, Cruhad has decided to lend support to the peacekeeping afforts. Although Bombia's killing of the protestors was wrong, if this war is continued many more people will die. Also, another unstable state is the last thing we need in the region.

The specifics of the force sent are:

3000 Cruhadi Regulars
600 Armored Vehicles
500 Support Personelle
These forces will be under the command of General Saladin
-Barry Al-Dar, Cruhad Foreign Minister

(OOC - I posted our regional map on our main forum)

Juthopia will supply staging positional assistance along the Juthopian-Bombian border.

Leader of Rebel Army captured in Night Raid

Leader of the revolutionary group "People's front of Bombia", (not to be confused with the "Bombian People's Front", who's crack suicide squads have been a nuisance), John Traton, was captured early in the twilight hours of the morning yesterday. He was captured outside of the capitol sleeping in an abandoned building.

Along with the leader, the troops were able to confiscate several documents that show connections to certain states in the region. The names of the states have not been released yet, but some are pointing their fingers at the Eschaton and their large Uranium Mining industries.

The capture of the rebel leader seems to have done nothing in the actual war. The rebels fight as fierce as ever, and the peace keeping troops are having trouble keeping them back.

There is no trial date yet.

More on this story as it develops.

DELTA CITY, JUTHOPIA: June 22 - Juthopian Coast Guard officials have discovered a complex drug-trafficking network around the Menotomian continent. A specialized squad of agents infiltrated this operation yesterday morning at 945 16th Street, Delta City, Juthopia. Possible links have been found across the continent. More information is being uncovered as the JIA (Juthopian Intellience Agency) searches for leads in this suscipious downtown compound. Premier Walter Richelieu asks that those nations which still have drug laws aid the JIA in their search for clues. All help will be appreciated.

sorry im late on this. kingdom of Wyczestr is Will Butler

Cruhad is happy to report minimal casulties in the intital stage of the peace keeping initiative. 4 men were wouunded and 1 killed in a roadside bomb yesterday, but organized resistance has been light. Numerous weapon caches have been confiscated as well.

In terms of the drug running, Cruhad has strict laws but will coopoerate with the JIA and allow them to pursue their investigation. (supervised of course)

-Barry Al-Dar, Cruhad Foreign Minister

As the immediate threat to Bombia's sovereignty has been subdued, the Kingdom of Wyczestr suggests that all sides should refrain from provocative action and that peace negotiations with the rebels be organized. By no means does Wyczestr advocate that the rebels be allowed to enter into a coalition government with the current leadership of Bombia, but it seems to be generally acknowledged that human rights abuses HAVE been committed by the Bombian government, and an understanding between the two sides must be reached if stability is to be maintained in Bombia.

-Grand Regent Willhelm Von Hertzbrunner

Although I love the idea of having a map for RP purposes, and the one Dan M. made is very nice, I think that before we start using it we should make some tweaks and make sure everyone agrees on the setup.

Myself, I've compiled a list that includes both government type, and evniroment. I think that although Government type should have some bearing, it shouldn't have a lot since nations can suddenly have military coups and such. I think enviroment should play a larger role. I also think that some of the nations have an overly-advantageous position or are too large, such as New Menotomy. Others are far too small such as Ykresse or Eschaton.

Also I wasn't in that map. Also the major problem I see with the map is also that more countries can join and political status can change. So Shrug.

I would like to announce that Marklund has decided to host a region wide charity sporting event. The goal of the event will be to promote goodwill between nations in these troubled times and to raise money for the many afflicted famillies of Bombia and the famillies of those who fought in Bombia. All attending nations will be expected to give a donation. Official dates and events will decided once we get an idea of how many nations will be attending. (as of yet i have no clue how to determine how it will be decided who will win events but we can figure that out later)

Parokif Kellanit, Official Voice of the People of Marklund

DELTA CITY, JUTHOPIA: June 24 - The JIA has located the head of the Juthopian drug-trafficking industry, Martin Coodeny. He is currently being interrogated in manner in accordance with the recent Menotomy Convention. No further information has been released.

OOC - Thanks for the feedback. I'll try to balance borders, add in rivers, and move countries around according to climate. I arranged them according to current conflict, and national policy, but I understand if that doesn't make much sense. If I added extra land for new countries, would it be "International Territory"? That's the issue.

Dan

OOC - maybe you could just make a frontier in one direction and only fill it with new countries. having international territory would inevitably cause wars, or even worse, it would allow neighboring countries to make land grabs.

then again maybe it doesnt help to have everybody giving their two cents.
your call

OOC - I think it might be a hell of a lot easier if I hand-write the map and scan it... where should the international territory go?

OOC - it would probably be best to have it all in one place, maybe just a frontier in the east or something.

Is anyone still playing this or what? I mean has this thing already died? No one is posting anything thats not map related. I tried to get a thing going with the sporting event but no one responded. Is everyone done with NationStates? If you guys are still doing it and i really hope you are, please start posting stuff so RP can continue.

The Holy Empire of the Eschaton, its will represented by the Twenty-three Chief Executive Officers, would like to formally request attendence at the proposed sporting event in the People's Republic of Marklund. The Eshcatonic Coperations' sports teams long for a more international recognition. The 23 CEOs hope to remain informed on the progress of the event so that the Eschaton may takea full role in it, both furthering the interests of regional peace as well as relieving the suffering in afflicted nations who will receive this event's benefits.
The Twenty-three also request that their own Corperations be allowed to sponsor the event, and are willing to donate a considerable sum in order to gain express privelages (i.e. give the 23 Corporations sole rights to advertisement). The current offered amount is twenty-three million lumens, though it is negotiable.
The 23 CEOs look forward to a more active participation by the Eschaton on the affairs of Menotomy.
<resolution presented by Deter Wolfgang of Immenaton Corp., and signed by the Twenty-three>

I suggest a friendly wager on one of the aspects of the Games, a certain sport called "Log throwing". You've all seen it, it's originally a Scottish game, and it's like shotput, but with a big log. I believe that my nation's lumberjacks will be more than egar to trounce any challengers that may work up the courage to challenge them.

I wager one million thirtypacks on my star log thrower, Sven Goldsheim. Any takers?

In Regards to the 2004 Menotomy Games in Marklund:

The Principality of Juthopia formally accepts its invitation to the sporting event in Marklund. Little Ossipee's game sounds interesting... our professional squirrel-throwers will have to adapt to heavier equipment, though. The Principality of Juthopia also offers its well-known Elite Security Squad to aid security if necessary.

Aaron Norcross, Secretary of Agriculture and Recreation
Principality of Juthopia

(approved by Premier Walter Richelieu)

We are open to suggestions for additional events at the Menotomy Games. So far these are what will be offered:

-Log Throwing
-Car Racing
-Poker
-Paper Football
-Baseball
-Soccer

Date of the beginning of the games: TBA (once we find out who is attending and what all the games are)

Nations Attending:
-Marklund
-Little Ossipee
-Juthopia
-Eschaton
-Wyczestr
-Hastania
-Exponents
-Cruhad (racing only)

This post will be edited to be kept up to date by the way so I won't be reposting when new events are added.

*out of character*
Bombia was me, me being Becki W.
However, due to some technical difficulties (someone hijacked my nation) Bombia is no more. Let's just call it a "collapsed state."
Sorry about that.

*in character*
The revolutionaries from Bombia have escaped and formed a new nation: The Free Land of Sniffilis.

The Protectorate of Exponents formally accepts the invitation. We would also like to propose Baseball as one of the sports. As our country seems to shut down during the fall classic, etc. Well until our talent is stolen by the Americas.

How about soccer being one of the sports in the upcoming games?

OK! With a decent number of attending nations and plenty of events we're ready to begin the events. The games will take place over the weekend and between now and then we will be taking any and all suggestions as to how the results ought to be worked out.

The first day was pretty exciting down here at the Wolburg (capital of marklund) Collusseum! The first event, Log Throwing, set the tone for the entire day. The top three nations in that event went on the be the top three nations of the day. Although Little Ossipee never came in first on any event, they did consistently stay in the top three and won the most points the first day. Wyczestr and Exponents both tied the first day, as did Juthopia and Hastania. Eschaton is currently in sixth place followed finally by Marklund. Cruhad decided to only participate in the Car Racing event in which they placed last. The events are scored thusly: First place is worth 6 points, each following place is worth one less point with sixth being worth zero.

Overall Number of Points and Position of each Nation
First Place: 14 Points, Little Ossipee
Second Place: 11 Points, Wyczestr and Exponents
Fourth Place: 8 Points, Juthopia and Hastania
Sixth Place:6 Points, Eschaton
Seventh Place: 5 Points, Marklund

-Log Throwing
1. Wyczestr
2. Exponents
3. Little Ossipee
4. Juthopia
5. Eschaton
6. Marklund
7. Hastania
-Car Racing
1. Hastania
2. Little Ossipee
3. Eschaton
4. Marklund
5. Wyczestr
6. Juthopia
7. Exponents
8. Cruhad
-Poker
1. Exponents
2. Little Ossipee
3. Juthopia
4. Wyczestr
5. Hastania
6. Marklund
7. Eschaton

Now this has been a real amazing event. After day one it seemed at though Little Ossipee was an indomnitable opponent who would sweep the entire event but day 2 saw their luck turn a little sour. Wyczestr played above average both days and came to be one of the two tieing victors. The other, a huge surprise, is Eschaton, who did very poorly on day one but came back with a vengeance on day 2. Well anyway, heres the results for today:

-Paper Football
1. Eschaton
2. Marklund
3. Wyvzestr
4. Hastania
5 Juthopia
6. Exponents
7. Little Ossipee

-Baseball
1. Wyczestr
2. Eschaton
3. Little Ossipee
4. Hastania
5. Marklund
6. Exponents
7. Juthopia

-Soccer
1. Hastania
2. Juthopia
3. Eschaton
4. Marklund
5. Exponents
6. Little Ossipee
7. Wyczestr

And the final scores for the whole event:
First Place: 21 Points, Eschaton and Wyczestr
Third Place: 20 Points, Hastania
Fourth Place: 18 Points, Little Ossipee
Fifth Place: 15 Points, Marklund, Juthopia, and Exponents

Considering Burgia's national sport is "speed selling," Burgia decided to not actualy participate, and instead, it will be demonstrating its sport to the confused tourists who think they just got plastic trinkets thrown at them while their pockets were picked.

After Cruhad's horrible defeat in the Marklundian games, riots have sprung up all over the country, especially in the capital of El-Hattal. The situation is very tense right now as many people are threatening to take their anger out on any foreigners inside Cruhad's borders. The riot police have managed to put down the worst of it although the situation could flare up at any time.

On the main streets of Helmstadt, the capitol city of Wyczestr, thousands of fans turned out in a spontaneous celebration of Wyczestr's success in the Marklund games. Riot police were quickly called and the revelers were dispersed with tear gas and nightsticks, because after all, just because we tied for first place in some silly games doesn't mean we're going to stop opressing our people. What were they thinking?

Burgia's respoce to the riots is "Keep it down, weve got money to make."

After hearing Burgia's somewhat uncaring response, a man reportedly named Alexander Kaida, put a load of C4 in his truck and drove it into the Burgian embassy in El-Hattal, killing the 34 workers there as well as 16 Cruhadi guards. An unknown amount of passersby were injured. The High Cleric of Cruhad, Nikolai Adamos has deemed this a "horrible tragedy" and that his "heart went out to the families of the killed Burgians and Cruhadis, and promised a harsher control of the riots.

In the wake of the bombing, Cruhadi law enforcement officials began to crack down on the rioters, although most dispersed willingly, too shocked to care about the loss in the Marklund Games.

We, the people of Marklund, would like to make it clear that we are both shocked and appalled at the recent events in the region. The spirit of the Marklund games was one of caring and respect for the other nations of the region and yet we now see violence as a result. We do not approve of a government infringing upon its citizens' right to protest although also do not approve of acts of terrorism as exhibited by one Alexander Kaida.
Thusly we have resolved to take the following actions:
-give the "frowning of a lifetime" to Wyczestr, Cruhad, and Mr. Kaida.
-establish the "Grass is Greener" program in which citizens of foreign nations, who can escape to Marklund, will be set up immediatelly with food, shelter, literacy programs, and employment.
-Offer the services of the MOOT (Marklundian anti-Organized Opposition Team (our police)) to any country who needs them to locate and apprehend homicidal terrorists. In exhange for this we merely require the right to try, and detain the terrorist within our own prison system.

Sternly Speaking to the Leaders of Menotomy Nations,
Parokif Kellanit, Official Voice of the People of Marklund

Juthopia is also surprised at the lack of regional appreciation for other countries and the lack of appreciation of society. Juthopia is shocked that Burgia claims to have good civil rights and political freedoms, yet ignores the populace time and time again. Juthopia is also surprised about the Cruhadi attacks, although many nations such as Cruhad dislike Burgia's deceptive policies. As usual, Juthopia welcomes immigrants of all nationalities and social classes and pushes for peace in the world.

OOC: Sorry about the pun, couldn't resist... :(

IC: In the aftermath of the terrorist attacks and the responses from Juthopia and Marklund, the Cruhadi leadership has a hard look at it's education and justice systems. An overhaul of both systems are underway.

The assistance of MOOT will be greatly appreciated and Cruhad would also offer similiar services by its law enforcement officials.

This terrible event has brought the misguided hatreds held by some people in the region. The goverment of Cruhad urges its people and other regional peoples, to look at this event not as a sorry end, but a new beginning of cooperation. Therefore Cruhad would like to propose the formation of MAPU.
Menotomy Alliance for Peace and Unity. This organization will welcome any nations in Menotomy. Its purpose will to preserve peace and unity in menotomy, and punishing those who would break it.

-Barry Al-Dar, Foreign Minister of Cruhad

After Carefull concideration Hastania has voted for the current UN resolution. One of the reasons for this decision was that a similar resolution was passed long ago banning all slavery. We do not feel that this current resolution interfeers with the daily lives of just about any of the UN countries in Monotemy. If anyone oposses this decision please feel free to speak your minds.

I applaud Cruhad's attempt to create a peace keeping force in the region, but I am sorry to announce that Little Ossipee is unable to commit to joining said group. That is all for now.

~Shawn Mahady
Emporer of the Dominion of Little Ossipee

The 23 CEOs of the Eschaton have released a formal statement to all nations in the region that, in light of regional unrest and terrorist attacks, the Eschaton will be requiring a tighter customs procedure for all incoming persons. A full background check will be requested, and all trade convoys will be escorted by corperate security forces. This is to ensure the safety of the law abiding citizens of the Eschaton in a time of growing danger and unease.
Moreover, the 23 wish to make it clear that the Eschaton does not wish to infringe on the rights of other nations, or becoming involved in a dispute that does not directly relate to its own interests. As such the Eschaton is declaring itself officially neutral and asks that no support be expected of it in any police actions that other nations may undertake. This is in the interests of supporting self-determination and acting in the service not of other nations' citizens, but its own.
<signed> The Twenty-Three Chief Executive Officers

We the People of Marklund have come to a very serious decision. We acknowledge that different people believe governments should be run different ways, and that our socialistic ideals do work for everyone. Regardeless, we feel that cold and uncarring nature of the "23 CEOs" of Eschaton is becoming unacceptable.
Therefore we have resolved to take the following action:
-We have removed all personel from the embassy in Eschaton
-No Marklundian citizens shall be allowed to enter Eschaton
-The Marklundian Government shall not purchase any goods or services from Eschaton nor shall we provide them to that Nation
-We no longer recognize the "23 CEOs" as being any form of governing body over the people of Eschaton
-We are beginning construction of a border watching system between Marklund and Eschaton
-We urge the governments of the many nation of Menotomy to follow suite

In addition, we would like the nations of the region to be aware of what we request from the "23 CEOs".
-You must give yourselves up to a nuetral party for temporary detainment
-Allow for detailed investigation of your pasts and activities
-Set up a democratic government within Eschaton so that the people may rule themselves

We thank the nations of Menotomy and hope that the oppressed people of Eschaton know, that they have friends, and a safe place, in Marklund.
Parokif Kellanit, Official voice of the People of Marklund

In responce to Marklund's agressive attacks on the 23 CEOs of the Eschaton, Little Ossipee has done the following:

Opened trade negotiations with the Eschaton
Closed its borders to all Marklundians, including traders
Put its military on a heightened state of alertness
and ejected the Marklundian embassador.

In a telegram, Little Ossipee has informed the Marklundian leader that once his trade sanctions are removed, negotiations may continue.

Emperor Shawn

The Twenty-three Chief Executive Officers of the Eschaton, in response to the People's Republic of Marklund, wish to place a formal embargo upon said nation. Since Marklund has made clear its hostile intent, the Eschaton feels justified in placing an increased number of troops on its border with the People's Republic to fend off any incursions. This means, also, that we shall deter any attempts to probe into national matters. Any and all individuals or groups that attempt to stand behind Marklund's uncalled for and innappropriate resolutions shall be marked as Enemies of the State and dealt with swiftly.
The Twenty-three, speaking for the people and private enterprises of the Eschaton, also wish to make clear their shock and dismay at the intrusive policy of the People's Republic. These actions stand against everything the Eschaton believes in - self determination and the furthering of private enterprise regardless of class or race destinction. The Eschaton begs that its fellow free nations stand up against this blossoming regional bully, and follow Little Ossipee's lead in cutting off trade relations with Marklund. We cannot allow our nations' future, and thus our region's future to be dominated by a would-be father state with no perspective on the interests of the people and leaders of their neighbors.
In closing, the Twenty-three wish to make it clear that, should Marklund continue to trample neutral rights and act in this belligerent manner, the Eschaton will have little choice but to turn its considerable economic weight, including its vast manufacturies, to the purpose of making war against Marklund, in the name of national defense. It is the furvent hope of the Eschaton that it shall not come to this, however. We desire no war with our neighbors, but we also desire no interference or intrustion either.
<signed> The Twenty-three CEOs of the Eschaton

In response to Marklund's declaration, Eschatonic corperate troops have moved to form a barrier against possible incursion, as well as to stop any attempted movement of citizens to Marklund. All news of Marklund's declaration has been kept from the Eschaton's public by Chief Executive Order. The TV and radios are silent on the matter, but there has been an increase in the number of advertisments sporting ethnically unsound jokes about Marklund and its peoples.

The "23 CEOs" claim to be in favor of self determination, they claim that it is their way of life. They say they want to allow people to do what they think is best yet they rule a country with "unheard of" civil rights and "outlawed" political freedoms. It seems to only people who are determining their own government are the CEOs themselves. The "23 CEOs" are a group that have their guns pointed and sights aimed, yet they are pointed and aimed not only at their enemies but their people as well, and more often than not it is their own people who die at their whims. This cannot be allowed. How can we allow a group such as this to rule its people like that? We, the People of Marklund, call for any and all nations and people's to stand united, firm, and resolute, against the "23 CEOs". We do not ask for military action of any kind, we never ask any person to put their life on the line unprovoked, no, we ask that you cut off all trade and diplomatic relations with the "23 CEO's" until the demands have been met. Let it be known that marklund has no desire to and will never fire the first shot.

THE PEOPLE OF ESCHATON MUST BE FREED!
Parokif Kellanit, Official Voice of the People of Marklund

(Ok just 2 things out of character. I suggest that in the event of war or military action, that nuclear devices be simply placed out of the question. This is because that would pretty much end the game right there for everybody. Second if you want to telegram something to someone the forum is not exactly the right place to do that. Any message you want to send that other nations shouldn't hear should be telegrammed by way of the nationstates telegram system. Thanks everybody, keep active, and really I hope I don't die)

Hastania has decided to keep trade between all countries unchanged. However due to the recent hostilities we regret to inform all that any millitary action against the nations of Juthopia and Marklund will be met with the imidiate retaliation of Hastania's armed forces and could make the agressive nations potential targets for Hastania's Orbital Laser Bombardment System. Which is a millitary satelite created not long ago for the protection of our borders. Hastania secretly agreed to a mutual allience with Marklund and Juthopia long before these tentions began. We will remain neutral towards any nation that is simply retaliating to a first strike from these nations but in the event that a nation makes the first move against these two countries Hastania has no choice but to declare war.

Little Ossipee's army has been put on a heightened alert. Their factories have been put on backbreaking shifts, working around the clock producing goods to sell, or maybe supply the army in case of war. Due mto a sudden increase in economic power, the emperor has also raised wages in both the Armed Forces and factory positions.

((Map link anyone?))

I have attached both maps to this post. mapphys.jpg is the physical map and mappol.jpg is the political map. Apparently it wasn't clear by the coloring change but it is clear now, the Almighty Lobster fell into the ocean (seismic activity).

Sniffilis, like Hastania, will not be altering the trade between any countries. However, if Marklund is attacked, Sniffilis will be sending troops to aid Marklund.

(1 more thing: I'm leaving for England on Thursday and will be gone for two weeks. I'm not sure if I'll have internet access or not.)

"The recent unrest in the region of Menotomy is both a dark and dangerous one. The Protectorate of Exponents does not wholely agree with either nation in this recent dispute. I would personally like to convey my nation's recommendation that a summit be held on a neutral location from delegates from all regions. As, if war breaks out, it is likely that it will put our entire region into turmoil. War is always a terrible event and i fear our region is standing near disaster. I would like to reaffirm my support of peace and not one of military escalation.

My nation is also heavily critical of this apparent covert treaty between the nations of Marklund, Hastania, and Juthopia. I would also suggest that in this situation each nation considers what is best for the region and its own country. I heavily doubt any nation thinks war is its best interest. In "Jammin's" Name."
Duran Chase, Foreign Minister of Protectorate of exponents.

The Eschaton and its people, speaking through the Twenty-three leaders of free enterprise, wish to declaim the military support being offered to Marklund on two counts.
-First: The actions Marklund is taking are intrusive and danngerous to regional stability. They are acting as a regional police-state, attempting to regulate the practices of its neighbors. This is a breach of all good national policy, and a threat to the independence of governing bodies all across Menotomy. The Eschaton is shocked that such inappropriate declaration and edicts can draw any sort of support from the self same nations who decry the UN's more intrusive policies. If the UN has no right to manage the internal affairs of its member states, then Marklund certainly has no right to threaten the destruction of the very core of Eschatonic government.
-Second: The Eschaton has in no way threatened to make any aggressive action against Marklund /unless/ Marklund should instigate hostilities. We desire the maintainence of our neutrality, whilst it is Marklund that is attempting to deny us this basic right. We are not the aggressors, and it wounds our nation to think we should be perceived as such. Any military action we take will be strictly reactionary, and we hope that all nations and leaders will be quick to side with the Eschaton in maintaining a peace /without/ exploitation.
Hence we commend Little Ossipee and its decision to side against billigerants and workers of chaos in what should be a stable and prosperous region.
<signed> The Twenty-Three Chief Executive Officers of the Eschaton

Many things are happening right now, the region is in a state of unrest and activity. During such a time it is easy for messages to become twisted and unclear, it is easy for things to escalate and go horribly ary. We want to clarify our position and intnetions so that all members of the region can understand our goals and visions. This entire conflict was incited just days ago when the "23 CEO's", who claim to represent their people, instituted yet stricter regulations, within their nation. We, The People of Marklund, felt that the time for change had arrived in Eschaton. The government there is so oppressive of its people and exhibits obvious practices of martial law. Under most circumstances we do not approve of rash action especially upon foreign nations, but we feel the situation in Eschaton has become dire. Thus, we initiated sanctions against the country and demands of the "23 CEOs" who rule it. Never once did we mention any intent to step upon the ground of Eschaton or bring weapons to bear. Yet, in response the "23 CEOs" made a declaration which involved threats of war. We will quote them now "...the Eschaton will have litte choice but to turn its considerable economic weight, including its vast manufacturies, to the purpose of making war against Marklund...". This shows their warlike intent. We ask not of nation to send their people into the Eschaton but would ask that the people of foreign nations stand against them. If any shot is taken in this conflict, the first one will be fired by Eschaton or its allies, not by Marklund. We have always been a peaceful nation. We believe that every person is important and education is the key to a country's success. The "23 CEOs" on the other hand have put significant money into their military. They are the militaristic nation here not us. We hope that you now understand the situation and will aid us in our struggle.

Thank you fellow nations,
Parokif Kellanit, Official Voice of the People of Marklund

We, The People of Marklund, felt that the time for change had arrived in Eschaton. The government there is so oppressive of its people and exhibits obvious practices of martial law. Under most circumstances we do not approve of rash action especially upon foreign nations, but we feel the situation in Eschaton has become dire. Thus, we initiated sanctions against the country and demands of the "23 CEOs" who rule it.

Wouldn't these sanctions only increase the plight of the basic citizentry your nation is trying to help?

The Protectorate of Expoents has decided that while we neither can or could offer military support to either side in this dispute we will not be idle in the suffering of any people, even those who do not share our own views and way of life. In this spirit, I personally wish to offer humanitarian aid to any nations that request them. We pledge to offer as much as we can provide. My country will also be willing to recieve any refugees wishing to flee from a possible warzone.

Despite this pledge I would still like to implore even beg all nations involved to try to step back and open discussions to avert a conflict.

In "Jammin's" Name
-Duran Chase, Foreign Minister

Yes it is true that sanctions often hurt the people of a nation. The reason we decided to take this action is that there seems to be no other alternative. The "23 CEOs" have never shown any regarde for their citizens lives and are obviously opposed to listening to other nations in regardes to how their country should be run. We feel that if the "23 CEOs" lose the ability to trade with sufficient nations that they will see their economy crumble and accept the changes that need to be made. The only other action aside from sanctions that would force the "23 CEOs" out of power would be through aggresive military actions, which we do not feel are ever an acceptable form of foreign policy.

If any nation can suggest a better course of action which will allow us to accomlish our goals then we will glady hear it.

We hope that the other nations of the region now understand why we chose to use sanctions,
Parokif Kellanit, Official Voice of the People of Marklund

Due to the lack of goods coming out og the Marklund factories, Little Ossipee would be more than glad to help suppy lemonade and any other products that might be in short suppy due to the sanctions for a cheaper cost than by the aforementioned nation. These goods are available for any country that wishes to trade.

After Little Ossipee's declaration, the shelves of Eschatonic supermarkets that once sported 'Marklund Fresh Lemonade: The Taste of Freedom' (sold through one of the many subsidiaries of Sustinian Corp., of course) now bear 'Little Ossipee Lemonade: To Wash the Taste of Marklund Out of Your Mouth' (still sold through a subsidiary). Though brand loyalty does cause some complaint from consumers, most citizens simply accept the change, especially after their mandantory mini-radios tell them to. All truly vocal opposition... disappears.

Hastania is now accepting an even larger amount of refugies who wish to flee from their country. Although security is still a big issue, the overpopulation of Hastania will not stop us from accepting potential new citisens. As of right now there are no limits to the amount of people who wish imigrate to Hastania.

Tight control over the media has resulted in only the barest whispers of the barest conflict budding between the Eschaton and Marklund. Surrounded by the billboard plastered highrises of Bilderberg, Aspengrad, and Hermeticia, the citizenry of the Eschaton are kept quite in the dark as to the national situation, resulting in an extremely minimal number of refugees. In fact, not one refugee leaves the nation's borders, whether it be due to the near silence on any matter that would cause fleeing of the well defended cities of the Eschaton or due to the increased number of armed corperate border patrols, strictly regulating all incoming and outgoing peoples.

Wyczestr opposes the use of economic sanctions as an instrument for political change. Therefore, we condemn Marklund's agressive attitude towards the Eshcaton. In our country there is an old saying that "A people can not be free when a nation is in chains". Thus, we find Marklund's assertion that it is acting in the best interest of the Eschatonian People to be highly hypocritical. Freedom can not be given by an invading army, nor is a nation weakened by sanctions any more free. We hereby urge the People's Republic of Marklund to end its hostile policy towards the Eschaton.
-Willhelm Von Hertzbrunner, Grand Regent of the Empire of Wyczestr

OOC - I just returned from a hiking trip in Acadia Nat'l Park and I was a little confused until I read the forum...

Juthopia, in these times of trouble, pushes both The Eschaton and Marklund to negotiate out this conflict. Juthopia supports the people's right to do whatever they wish, as long as it doesn't drive the government to anarchy. Although Juthopia is upset at the actions of The Eschaton, Juthopia has yet to interfere in any country's internal affairs because Juthopia does not believe in nation building.

But, if hostile action occurs between Marklund and The Eschaton, Juthopia will wholeheartedly support the People's Republic of Marklund in battle and negotiation, regardless of who initiated conflict. Juthopia will not have any part in occupation of The Eschaton if any territory is occupied because releasing a population from bondage does not involve enslaving the population as well.

Premier Walter Richelieu
Principality of Juthopia

Cruhad would like to express its concern and discontent at the current situation in the region. These types of situations were exactly the reason the creation of MAPU was sugested, yet, it seems that a crisis has begun before the group could be formed.

The disagreements must end before this situation escalates. Therefore, Cruhad proposes a summit held in El-Hattal, where ambassadors from both sides can attempt to work out their differences. Hopefully a compromise can be drawn and these hostilities ended. Cruhad urges both nations to attend.

((Summary of current events will now be sporadically posted underneath the "Who's Who" list. If I missed anything, Telegram me.))

Juthopia has decided to impose a full economic embargo on the Holy Empire of The Eschaton until further notice. Juthopia urges other nations to do the same.

Ethan Lowenstein
Foreign Minister of the Principality of Juthopia

The Parliament of Wyczestr strongly objects to the sanctions placed by Juthopia on the Holy Empire of the Eschaton. Juthopia claims that it wishes to avoid escalation of this conflict and would not "interfere in any country's internal affairs", and yet now it intends to conduct negotiations under the threat of continued economic embargo. If Juthopia and Marklund truly seek a peaceful resolution to this conflict, we urge them to repeal these sanctions immediately.
Furthermore, Wyczestr condemns the so-called "defensive alliance" that seems to have formed between Marklund, Juthopia, and the Free Land of the Sniffilis. The latter two countries have both pledged to support Marklund if it is attacked, but in reality it is Marklund that has threatened the Eschaton in no unclear terms. They have made a list of impossible demands - including that the entire government of the Eschaton resign and that a new regime friendly to Marklund's interests be instituted. They also admit to building up a "border watching system", which can be little more than a euphamism for invasion preparations, as the Eschaton had in no way threatened Marklund previously. Therefore, we see the alliance between Marklund, Juthopia and the Sniffilis not as a defensive one, but as a pact to invade and plunder the Holy Empire of the Eschaton.

We are appalled at the words spewing forth from the Wyczestr propaganda machine. Lets take their statements point by point.
First of, trade sanctions are not a form of intereference in the internal affairs of a nation, only the worldwide affairs.
Second, they speak of us seeking a peaceful resolution to the conflict, by which of course they mean for us to back down and give in to the atrocities taking place upon our fellow man.
Third, they are opposed to the defensive alliance between our fellow nations and us. Let me be clear when I say that the aforementioned alliance is only effective in the event that Marklund does not take the first shot and therefore is in no way an offensive weapon of any kind.
Fourth they claim that we have threatened Eschaton. We have never given any indication that we would ever attack the Eschaton and have pledged that we will not attack but only react. Let me once again state that sanctions are not an internal affair but a worldwide affair. It is just as much Marklund's right to choose who it trades with as it anyone elses right to choose the kill their own people at will according to wyczestr logic.
Fifth, the demands are nowhere near impossible. Essentially all we are asking is that the "23 CEOs" finally take responsibility for their horrendous actions and hand over control of the government to the people. We do not ask that the government be friendly to us or follow our way of life, only that they be ruled by a non-oppressive government.
Finally, the try to insinuate that the border watching system we have put in place is in reality a prepared invasion. That is quite logical of course, our Nation, despite its significantly smaller industrial power and military might, attempting to invade the second to most militarily powerful nation in the region. Yes, way to think it through Mr. Grand Regent.
Marklund has no interest in decieving the nations of Menotomy. We take offense that our statements and actions are being percieved in such a way. We do not understand why so many nations in the region are so willing to allow a regime like the "23 CEOs" to continue to exist or why so much hostility has been sent our way for wanting to make the people free. We have nothing to gain from such an occurance. We would gain no land, no resources, we do not have money as you capitalist nations percieve it and have nothing to gain monetarily. We support the fall of the "23" CEOs" purely because they cause pain and suffering.

We weep for the ignorant,
Parokif Kellanit, Official Voice of the People of Marklund

Juthopia would like to clarify its position in the current conflict.

The Principality of Juthopia:
a) Imposed a full economic embargo on The Eschaton in a non-militaristic effort to pressure the government to recognize the inalienable birthrights of man,
b) Pledges full support of any country if invaded by The Eschaton,
c) Will only set foot on Eschatonic territory and territory of The Eschaton's allies if the said countries make a deliberate effort to not negotiate with Marklund and her allies, and ignore efforts to allow more freedoms for the Eschatonic population,
d) Will never be the aggressor in combat, and
e) Will lift embargoes and will stand down if The Eschaton declares that it will reform its restrictions on personal freedoms for the general population.

Ethan Lowenstein
Foreign Minister of the Principality of Juthopia

As of now Marklund has informed Cruhad that it will attend the summit to be held in El-Hattal, in order to negotiate a compromise between it and The Eschaton. The Eschaton has yet to contact us in any way. Cruhad is happy that at least Marklund desires an end to this conflict and urges The Eschaton to meet with the Marklundians at the summit.

Barry Al-Dar, Foreign Minister of the Holy Republic of Cruhad

((OOC: Summit will be held Tommorow evening, or Tuesday morning, whenever I can get on. I think this will give adequate time for response, and preparation.))

Juthopia will attend the summit.

Ethan Lowenstein
Foreign Minister of the Principality of Juthopia

Political: Little Ossipee would also attend the summit, although the government has been making quite alot of bottles of beers off of manufacturing and selling goods to the Eschaton that Marklund and the other nations have sanctioned.

Military: In an effort to counteract this so called "Border Watching System", Little Ossipee has dedicated Two divisions of its special operations groups to the defense of the Eschaton's people against the Marklundian agressors and their allies. The divisions are now in transit on ships going to land in the neutral zone and make their way towards the Eschaton.

Industrial/Manufacturing: The factory workers are more than pleased with their positions since the recent job surplus and wage increases, and continue to pump out goods at a record breaking pace, twenty four hours a day to help supply the ever vigilant army and feed and relieve the Eschaton's people.


That is all.

((Ps- I forget who made the map, but Waterboro, the capital of Little Ossipee is in the middle of that convienent cove that you gave me.))

Mr. Official Voice makes a nearly convincing show of innocence in defense of his country's position - however, a careful examination of the events of the last few days will clearly show who is the agressor. On August the second, without any provocation, Marklund announced its new policy towards the Eschaton.

And I quote:
-You must give yourselves up to a nuetral party for temporary detainment
-Allow for detailed investigation of your pasts and activities
-Set up a democratic government within Eschaton so that the people may rule themselves"

Parokif Kellanit has clearly proposed a policy of regime change. If it is true that his nation has no intention of starting a shooting war with the Eschaton, then how does he intend to achieve this goal? It is simple. He wishes to impose an economic stranglehold on the Eschaton. The government of Marklund must realize that the Eschaton will never voluntarily submit to their demands, so they intend to starve them into submission. And still the "Voice of the People" claims that the sanctions do not interfere with the internal affairs of the Eschaton.
And now to refute the second of Marklund's points - Mr. Kellanit has deliberately twisted my words. I merely urged Marklund to remove the sanctions they have placed upon the Eschaton before negotiations can begin. Mr. Kellanit seems to belive that this is the same as backing down from his position. I suppose this is true if Marklund prefers to carry out its diplomacy with blunt economic agression rather than dialogue - after all, it was Marklund that withdrew its ambassador from the Eschaton.
Thirdly, regarding the alliance between Marklund, Juthopia and the Sniffilis, I will once again point to the fact that it was Marklund's announcement of August 2 that marked the beginning of the tensions that currently exist in our region. Marklund proposed a radical new policy towards the Eschaton and is now building up an alliance. If Marklund does not intend to attack the Eschaton militarily, it is at least likely that the former hopes to goad the latter into a war. The fact that the alliance with Juthopia and the Sniffilis is defensive is merely a technicality. After all, by that definition Germany and Austria-Hungary would have been merely defenders against a belligerent Serbia in the first World War. Indeed, in the second World War, it was Britain that declared war on Germany, not the other way around. Marklund can not prove it's innocence merely by pointing out a technicality in its treaty. If war breaks out, it will be due to Marklund's demands of August 2nd.
The issues of the fourth point have already been touched upon in the first. But Wyczestr supports the Eschaton's right to police its own people. It was Marklund that vowed to harbor any refugees from the Eschaton. Would this include insurgents and terrorists that have threatened stability in the Eschaton, and are themselves responsible for the police crackdown of late?
Fifthly, the demands are indeed radical - Marklund has left no room for compromise, as one of his demands is that a foreign court try the leaders of the Eschaton for its "crimes" of the past. This demand is impossible to meet for leaders of a nation that does not consider itself subordinate to the moralistic international court. Essentially, Marklund has shown no willingness to accept anything but utter capitulation from the 23 CEOs - not even a moderate reform policy that would leave sovereignty in the hands of the current regime.
Marklund's refutation of the sixth point attempts to dismiss my accusation with sarcasm. But again, the facts speak loudest. Marklund announced its increase in border security at 9:10 AM, August 2nd. The Eschaton responded in kind at 5:41 PM. It is Marklund, not the Eschaton that is responsible for the heightened tensions on the border. If Marklund had no intention of provoking a war with the Eschaton, why did they take such a provocative step before a diplomatic dialogue could even begin? It is Marklund that is responsible for the escalating tensions, as it is their blunt regional policy that has made brinksmanship a substitute for dialogue.

We stand by all of what Mr. Kellanit said except for the sixth point in which he exhibited unwarranted sarcasm. Our apologies, we Marklundians are a very patriotic people and it hurts us deeply when we are morally attacked. Let me give a new response to your accusations. Formerly, we had no armed guards on our borders, the most we had were occasional highway police moving along the roads that connect our countries to foreign ones. Now read how the "23 CEOs" patrol their borders: "...a jeep with a mounted, pivoting machine gun. Each gaurd wears a padded combat vest, probably very uncomfortable in the dry heat, and carries an automatic rifle, as well as a sidearm.". (refer to page one of the forum topic for the post by the Eschaton that this is from). We feared that there was a chance that the Eschaton would react more rashly to our sanctions and decided to set up a defensive post on the small border that exists between our nations.

As for calling for a regime change, it is quite obvious to anyone reading our demands that that is exactly what we are calling for. We want the "23 CEOs" to accept their moral atrocities and stand down.

It is obvious that we are the Nation who has decided to escalate tensions in the region with our sanctions. As Wyczestr says though, it is Great Britain who declared war on germany yet here in Marklund we applaud that decision albeit delayed as it may have been. We may have brought the issue of the the freedom for the people of Eschaton to the forefront in the region but the "23 CEOs" were oppressing their people long before we ever spoke about it and this is why we declared the sanctions. Therefore in a very real sense, they caused the problems between us and them. We merely brought it before the other nations in the region.

Sincerely,
Zella Vels, First aid to the Voice

Ok do people want me to repost with the maps uploaded everytime we overflow onto a new page or do you guys just want to refer back?

Also, theres a few bays, oceans/seas, straights and such items, even the forests and rivers if you guys want, that can be named. If anyone has suggestsions tell me and i'll put it in. Also if theres like minor cities that you feel are important, or really anything you feel that is pertinent for people to see just tell me what is what its called and where it goes.

These maps may have to goto higher resolution to fit everything heh...

ooc: The maps are bookmarkable, so there isn't a need for reposting. Great jon on them btw.

OOC: When is the summit? We have to have everybody in the forum at once so posting and responding can be quick and effective.

ooc: The Summit will be held tommorow August, 10th at 2pm EST. To make it easier and more realistic, we will be holding it in an AIM chat room. This will make it easier to talk to other people, as well as simulating being in a room with people. Please send me your screennames if you are going so I can invite you.
If you want to contact me telegram Cruhad, and my AIM sn is Harkguy43.

We,the newly developed Kindom of Eckers,will not get involed in the Echaton/Marklund dispute. We are a young ation and have our own internal problems.

ooc: eschaton has been away, so he hasn't been able to keep up to date

ic:

The Protectorate of Exponents will be willing to attend this summit, and encourages all nations to attend. What effects one nation in our region with out doubt has heavy impact on the rest of the region. It is in the best interests for everyone that a peaceful resolution is developed soon.

In "Jammin's" Name

- Duran Chase, Foreign Minister

ooc: Do you know when Eschaton is coming back? If needed we can push back the summit date. Also I still need IM names for the chatroom which we will be using for the summit.

IC: Cruhad is happy at the turnout, and hopes more nations will attend.

hes coming back tuesday but i dono how late

Hastania will be attending the summit, sn (sparkyseerofdoom)

If any county attacks little ossipi, cruhad, pecunian, juthopia, captain jack's trowsers, escelon, or ourselves: you will feel the full wrath of burgia, incuding economic withdrawl from the offending nation, and the weapons any of our major corporations may have stockpile while our inspectors were out for a spot of lunch.

we will send our chairman of external affairs, known only as bogenberg, to the confrence. if he complains that his coat is a little heavy, that is becaus the major corporations will likely bug him up the wazoo.

-declaration 327 of the parlament of burgia.

I am proud to announce that the two divisions of reinforce... *ahem* protecting troops will reach landfall within the hour, and from there, make the trek through the neutral unclaimed territories to the Eschaton.

Due to no real changes in stance, the Little Ossippean newspapers are starting to lose interest in the whole thing. No political or industrial changes at this time, but the emperor would like to congratulate Burgia to the correct side of this conflict, along with helping protect the non-responsive nations (aka, the non-RPers).
((AIM = TheRef310 II can't make it to the confrence, because I am working 8-3... (ugh). If any changes should come up, leave me a message with the room. Stupid Phil.))

In response to the movement of troops through what once was New Monotemy Hastania has sent 40,000 soldiers on a peackeeping mission to the now fallen nation. We refuse to stand by and watch as actions that could potenialy be a front to what looks suspiciously like an invasion force bent on claiming a nation in chaos to further Ospies empire are implimented without meeting any ressistance. The people of what was New Monotemy need to be protected. We also dont dessire to have yet another potentialy hostile neighbor. In addition Hastania is sending one armoured division at our border to increace deffense. The troops will vacate the area once Ospie's divisions pass through as promised. Any aggression will be met with retaliation. However if Ospie's intentions are as they seem it wont come to that and their movement will not be impeeded by our forces.

Juthopia does not understand why Burgia is defending almost every nation in this conflict, nor why Burgia supports nations on both sides. Juthopia is also disappointed at the fact that the Eschaton Foreign Minister took his vacation leave in the midst of this conflict. Juthopia will be in constant contact with Cruhad to see if the summit will be postponed.

Ethan Lowenstein
Foreign Minister of the Principality of Juthopia

IC: In light of the unknown return of the Eschatonic ambassador, and Ossipee's late arrival. We here at the summit have concluded to postpone the summit until 4 pm. If any nations have trouble meeting this deadline, please contact the Cruhad Foreign Affairs department.

OOC: I've postponed this to allow Ossipee to come, and to allow Eschaton most of the day to come back. If any one has any problems, telegram me or im me.

the reason for burgia's support of all nations on the lower peninsula is simple. we do not want to lose any trading partners.

-Bogenberg, chairman of the commity on foreign relations

You're as capitalist as you can get it seems, Burgia.

((Use the Nationstates message board for OOC! PS - I was moving my troops through the un-occupied territories to the right of the Eschaton, not former New Menots. PPS - IM me when the confrence starts!))

The first day of the summit has ended. Unfortunately, the Eschatoni representative had not arrived yet, and the Juthopian ambassador was detained, so only representative's from Marklund, Exponents, and Little Ossipee came. Here is transcript of the entire meeting.

IanJ2000 has entered the room.
IanJ2000: ::Parokif Kellanit enters the room::
IanJ2000: Ah, hello good sir.
Harkguy43: ::Barry Al-Dar sits at the head of a table in the center of the room
Harkguy43: ::
Harkguy43: Hello to you Mr. Kellanit
TheRef310 has entered the room.
TheRef310: 'ello
IanJ2000: (I use)
TheRef310: ((Phil back ))
TheRef310: ((?))
Harkguy43: ((I don't know))
IanJ2000: ::I sit down at the table next to Barry Al-Dar::
Harkguy43: Please sit Mr. ? <Barry says to the Ossipean Ambassador>
TheRef310: ((Because of the importance of this issue, no ambassador has been sent. In his place is the Emperor himself
TheRef310: ))
Harkguy43: ((d'oh sorry))
IanJ2000: Nice to meet you Emperor Mahady, I'm Parokif Kellanit you may have heard of me.
TheRef310: ((PS - (wu, Exponents) wants to join))
TheRef310: Disbelieverist
Harkguy43: ((invite sent))
Disbelieverist has entered the room.
IanJ2000: ((Parokif Kellanit is sitting next to Barry Al-Dar at a table in the center of the room))
Disbelieverist: does anyone even know if phillip is back yet?
Harkguy43: <the room is fairly small and is dominated by the ornate table in the middle>
Harkguy43: ((i dont think so))
Harkguy43: Juthopia may be joing us later, but for now, let us begin with each country presenting their argument
TheRef310: well, we can't really do this without the major party...
IanJ2000: I believe that you Emperor, are a represenative of that party.
IanJ2000: As you have allied yourself with that regime.
Disbelieverist: the point of a summit doesn't work with out the major parties in question
TheRef310: I still say that a delegate from the Eschaton should be here. Although I am allied with
Disbelieverist: yeah this isn't going to work
TheRef310: them, it does not mean I speak for them.
Disbelieverist: i'm out
TheRef310: Therefore, nothing I agree to will be legally binding.
Disbelieverist has left the room.
TheRef310: especially with the posting limit
IanJ2000: I think that the point of the summit is to discuss ideas
IanJ2000: Not necessarilly come to a definite conclusion
Harkguy43: This summit will most likely last until later days, so Eschaton if they wish can come at a later date
TheRef310: but what point is the discussion, if one major party is not here to give ideas?
TheRef310: *point is there to have
IanJ2000: I would assume that you would argue the same points as them
TheRef310: We know the arguements. You believe that the Eschaton is an opressive government. We do not. That is the problem.
TheRef310: The people of Eschaton, no matter how you have tried to stir them into action,
TheRef310: have done nothing.
IanJ2000: I've done nothing to stir them into action
IanJ2000: My actions are towards the so called leaders of their nation
TheRef310: Besides your slogans of "Free the Eschatoni people", and calling for them to reform their government
TheRef310: and you have the gall to call that not stirring them?
IanJ2000: If I could speak to their people I would, yet due to the nature of their government that communication would be quite impossible
TheRef310: (yay for rhyming!)
IanJ2000: It is unlikely that the people of their nation even know that it is being sanctioned.
IanJ2000: And any who suspect anything likely keep their mouths shut for fear of being shot or otherwise killed or tortured
IanJ2000: All my actions have been geared towards freeing the people not getting them to free themselves
IanJ2000: they probably don't even know what freedom is
TheRef310: Because the Eschatoni allies, myself included,
TheRef310: have stepped forward and taken on the
TheRef310: responsability of filling the void your sanctions
TheRef310: have created.
IanJ2000: What void would that be might I ask?
IanJ2000: My government has never engaged in trade of any kind with the Eschaton
TheRef310: Not only are you talking about "freedom", when
TheRef310: your own government doesn't allow any
TheRef310: personal posessions, you are trying to meddle
TheRef310: in the politics of another government.
TheRef310: How is it that YOU can talk about freedom with a 100% tax rate?
IanJ2000: Our people have personal possessions
TheRef310: How can they? They have no money to buy them with@
IanJ2000: Those possessions are given to them free of cost
TheRef310: *!
TheRef310: You know what, this is stupid.
IanJ2000: You'd be surprised how much can be accomplished in a money free society
TheRef310: Phil needs to be here
TheRef310 has left the room.


Another session will be held tomorrow same time, same place.

The summit does not seem to have accomplished anything, but I, Ethan Lowenstein, Foreign Minister of Juthopia, will attend tomorrow.

The emperor of Little Ossipee agrees. The summit is a waste of time, without the Eschaton there. Although I am allied with the Eschaton, I am NOT their delegate, nor will I be, even if they ask me to. They deserve fair representation in the summits, seeing how they are about Marklund's unfair sanctions on their country.

Ian showed me the map and i was thinking of expanging on it by making a topigraphic map showing montians, deserts and so on. So tell me what kind of stuff you want in your country like mountian ranges, swamps, deserts, and so on. You can e-mail me at Wolfman4132@hotmail.com or post it on this sight.

Noah W.

look, if anything is going to happen, it should be on the forum.

burgia's natrual land does not exist.

All of Hastania's troops have left the neutral zone (ex new monotemy) as promised. We also regret that we could not come to the summit today due to unfortunate internal problems. (I was asleep) We will hopefully be avelible for the next one.

((I'll be here for the next summit, but I will only RP if representatives from ALL major countries are there.))

Juthopia will attend; I, the Foreign Minister of Juthopia, need the details.

Ethan Lowenstein
Foreign Minister of the Principality of Juthopia

Another disapointing day for the summit today, as again The Esachatoni ambassador did not arrive. Because of this, the summit was decided to be called off, as both Exponents and Little Ossipee had stated that if Eschaton was not there they would leave. A last session will be held tomorrow in hopes of ending this crisis. Same time Same place.

Barry Al-Dar, Cruhad Foreign Minister

The 23 CEOs, after long consideration, have decided to send one of their number to speak in the interests of the Eschaton at the summit in Cruhad. The Third Chair, Manfred von Weimenoff, CEO of Quantillion Casinos will be arriving shortly, with a full escort of armed Corperate Guards. We hope that the summit will allow for reasonable negotiations. We apologize for the delay, but the arrangements for the accomodation of corperate affairs in response to Juthopia's embargo have taken time and we have had to work hard to see that the people of the Eschaton will not suffer due to it.

Our official stance on the matter will be revealed at the summit itself, and all other declarations will be withheld until the proper discussions are held in an environment that may curb the rash, zealous representatives of our would-be foes.

<signed> The Twenty-three Chief Executive Officers of the Eschaton.

((same time, tomorrow?))

cmon, i'll be there if i can.

The Empire of Oltramar would like to express it's neutrality in the current dispute between Eschaton and Marklund. We have multiple problems within our own borders that must first be dealt with. Thank you.

<signed>Matthew Calger, Emperor of Oltramar.

As stated earlier, the Summit is at 4 pm in El-Hattal. We are sorry for any miscommunication.

OOC: I make a chatroom at 4, and invite you if you are online.

A representative of the Empire of Oltramar may be attending the Summit tommorow, depending on certain conditions within the nation. This will only be so that we will know the status of the region and, if needed, to help keep things civil.

The Protectorate of Exponents sees the importance of this summit and will attend under the assumption that the governments involved are all equally represented and allowed to participate. Our Protectorate would also like to state that we will back any resolution that will encourage peace without violating any national soverenty. In addition we would also like to state thatany nation that we believe is instigating an elevation in this current dispute will be placed in our "bad graces." In response to Hastania's recent threaten of orbital weaponry, our normally peaceful nation has responded and developed it's own orbital weaponry.

In "Jammin's" Name
- Duran Chase, Foreign Minister of the Protectorate of Exponents

The Little Ossipean emperor has been foced back to the capital city of Waterboro, but hopees to make it back in time to help conclude the summit. Mr. Mahady has to take care of some pressing business of state that has absolutely nothing to do with this summit. Again, he will only participate if every major country has equal representation. He will whole-hearted stick to his current course of action.

The troops have seemingly had a problem in the neutral area. Apparently there has been a malfunction with one of the mechanical transports , and all forward movement has stopped.

OOC - If the summit is still going on at 5:00 PM let me know, my screen name is Bubthezombie85. I'll just be getting back from work by then.

Shortly after the embargo instituted against the Eschaton the imported Juthopian 'lion-jerky' has disappeared, and all the employees set to transport the tasty, hearty, teriyaki flavoured snack have lost their jobs. Discontent begins to bubble up as the unemployed workers' cries are not silenced in the usual fashion. Soon after a story breaks in Eschatonic newspapers: 'Juthopia Places Embargo On the People of the Eschaton!'. Bolstered by the support of the government controlled media, the unemployed workers begin to spread anger and hatred against the seeming culprits... Juthopia and its already unpopular ally Marklund. Quickly the unemployed workers are hired to join the Eschatonic Ministry of Public Awareness, and their words begin to be backed by corperate/government lumens... and funnily enough, though they have new jobs, the former jerky-workers remain just as vocal in their opposition of Juthopia and Marklund.

Yah, so Phil, Ben and I were having trouble signing out and into the forums, hence the Ossipean post by Exponents and the deleted post by the Eschaton.
Juthopia - we analyzed your profile, and that was the best product we could come up with. If you give us an actual list of Exports that you were sanctioning, that might help a wee bit...

Economic update:

Little Ossipee has started importing growing numbers of Lion jerky, while exporting a "Lion jerky substitute" to the Eschaton, to ease the pain of Juthopia's sanctions/embargo, for a profit. As a show of goodwill, The Emporer has allowed the unemployed jerky workers of the Eschaton to handle transport and distribution of said substitute.

ooc: my country doesn't have a capital, it has many decentralized sections which effectively govern themselves just in case any one wondered.

ic:

In the pressing matter of the continuing dispute along the borders of Juthopia, Marklund and the Eschaton, our Liberal Protectorate has thus far refrained from taking any side in this dispute. Our rationale has been simple. We strongly believe in self-determination and while the Eschaton is very unlike our own traditions this does not mean that we accept any foreign powers to attempt to affect change in our region of Menotomy. We have much in common in Marklund, but we have decided to denouce the sanctions that have been currently placed on the Eschaton as neither humane or lawful. We are not willing to stand idly by and allow the Eschaton populous to suffer for the form of government the "23" decide to enforce among their borders. As a result we are now fully willinging to provide the Eschaton any humanitarian aid they request. Further more, the Protectorate of Exponents has announced the raising of tariffs against all goods coming from Juthopia, Marklund and Hastania.

We would like to emphasis that despite this move, we still seek a peaceful resolution to this situation. We have taken these measures to show that we do not stand idly by while fellow humans suffer. It is our hope that this percieved form of agression will not be tolerated, even by a peace loving people as ours. We see this attempt to cause a regime change as not only illegal but fundamentally wrong. It is our strong belief that freedom can not and should not be forced on anyone, because ironically enough it is no longer freedom.

We also fully accept any repricusions this may cause for our own nation. Accordingly we have granted the "Jammin'" with emergency powers. While our nation may seem weak to foreigners, let me assure you, we are strong in our resolve and now commited to defend ourselves in case of any armed agression against our nation.

Any quieries about our new policies can be telegramed to the foreign ministry of the Protectorate of Exponents.

In "Jammin's" Name
- Duran Chase, Foreign Minister of the Protectorate of Exponents.


Voice of the "Jammin'", Local newspaper

In light of the recent declaration by Duran Chase, the Protectorate of Exponents has become a hotbed of dissenting and agreeing opinions. In stark contrast to stricter governments these protests are welcomed as long as they remain peaceful and forums have openned up across the nation to discuss the current situation. The majority, however, seem to overwhelmingly support the Protectorates decision.

((the summit is at 4 PM, right?))

JUTHOPIA COURIER

DELTA CITY, JUTHOPIA: Juthopia is disappointed at its loss of lion-jerky business, as a new foreign shipment office had just opened in Delta City. Although the economy will suffer, Juthopia's embargo on Eschatonic products remain. A full embargo has also been placed on Wyzestrian and Ossipeean products as well. The government reportedly said that "Juthopia will support the Eschaton if the Eschaton either allows more personal freedoms or declares that it will reform in the upcoming months to allow personal freedoms."
Alex Martinez, Correspondent

The people of Wyczestr are outraged at the sanctions placed on our nation by Juthopia. In response, Wyczestr will no longer trade with Juthopia's allies, Hastania, Marklund, and the Sniffilis. Additionaly, the Wyczestrian Navy will establish a base on the south coast of the former Kingdom of the Almighty Lobster, as it is now necessary for us to carry out our trade almost entirely by shipping, and these shipping lanes must be protected. We are taking this action as a pre-emptive defense against being blockaded and isolated. We have no intention of annexing the island itself, or imposing any sort of martial law upon its people, and will vacate it once the current conflict has been resolved. The Wyczestrian Navy also will take no provocative actions against any of the aforementioned nations on the high seas, but any attempt to prevent Wyczestr from trading with her allies will not be tolerated.

The Little Ossipean emperor, upon hearing the news that Juthopia has placed a full embargo on Little Ossipee has started calling for reservists to return to their bases, in order to defend if Juthopia decided to blockade Little Ossipee. They also have increased their presence at sea, including in and around friendly and neutral ports to ensure the protection of their large shipping fleet.

In a statement directly to the Juthopian government.

"This will NOT stand, especially on the eve of the last summit meeting. Pressuring Little Ossipee or our allies will, in mo way, help your stance as the "right" side. Little Ossipee and Wyczestr have done nothing to your country. These unprovoked acts of hostility will not bode well for the summit meeting. Attempts to force us into submission, through embargoes, or otherwise will be met with a very stiff resistance. You can believe that this will come up at the summit.

That is all."

JUTHOPIA COURIER

DELTA CITY, JUTHOPIA, August 12: During a press conference today at 2:00 PM, Michael Wilson, Economic Advisor to the Premier, said that he was "misinformed about the actions of The Eschaton's allies," and, on camera, signed the document releasing Wyczestr and Little Ossipee from Juthopia's economic embargo. Juthopia Lion-Jerky International, Juthopia's leading lion-jerky manufacturer, hopes that Juthopia's lion-jerky reappears on foreign shelves.
Alex Martinez, Correspondent

why don't we have it now? i'm bogenberg.

The Eschaton will be attending the summit - AIM The Eschaton23

((I'm going to NH for the weekend, leaving Friday afternoon, returning Sunday night))

The summit has finally ended and unforunetly there is nothing to show for it. Here is a total log of the summit ((edited for ooc)).

Disbelieverist: I represent the "Jammin'" in this summit
minibazooze: I am Ethan Lowenstein, Foreign Minister to the Premier of Juthopia
IanJ2000: I am Parokif Kellanit and I represent the People's Republic of Marklund
Disbelieverist: my name is Duran Chase
Harkguy43: ok, we will start with both sides prsenting their arguments, Marklund you may go first
The Eschaton23: I am Manfred von Wiemenoff, of the Most Holy Empire of the Eschaton, speaking for the Twenty-three and the Third Chair.
IanJ2000: We, the People of Marklund, voted and decided that the oppressive nature of the current regime in charge of Eschaton is unacceptable.
IanJ2000: Their people deserve far more freedom and inpedendance and the right to not be killed by their government.
The Eschaton23: I respectfully request that all nations be present at the summit before any declarations are made, out of respect for their own interests in the region.
minibazooze: ok
bogenberg: hi
IanJ2000: Shall I repeat my statement?
minibazooze: Burgia has entered
bogenberg: yes
The Eschaton23: However, respecting national rights has never been a high priority for the so-called 'People's Republic'.
IanJ2000: We, the People of Marklund, voted and decided that the oppressive nature of the current regime in charge of Eschaton is unacceptable
IanJ2000: Their people deserve far more freedom and inpedendance and the right to not be killed by their government.
bogenberg: burgia respects eselons statement
minibazooze: let's have some procedure for speaking
Harkguy43: please, may we have less interuptions
TheRef310: The Emperor enters the summit meeting hall with full regalia and pomp.
Harkguy43: alright, you may not speak while someone is speaking
Harkguy43: but you will have rebuttal tinme afterward
Harkguy43: Mr. Kellanit, you may continue
IanJ2000: The decision that our people voted on after they had decided that the Regime was unacceptable was then given to world
IanJ2000: It involves a removal of the current government and the surrender of it and economic sanctions.
TheRef310: And what gives you the right to vote on another regions personal issues?
IanJ2000: At this point we would agree to a proposition we have discussed with the leaders in Juthopia
bogenberg: you cannot onestly expect anyone to agree to that, surely???
IanJ2000: Thank you for interrupting "emperor"
The Eschaton23: A courier enters and informs the attendees that Hastania's representive will arrive shortly.
minibazooze: excellent
Harkguy43: pleas Emperor, Mr. Begenberg, you wil have time to speak
IanJ2000: I would request some decorum
IanJ2000: Anyway, I am done speaking and will allow Juthopia to explain his proposition himself.
IanJ2000: When it is his turn to speak of course
IanJ2000: Thank you. ::I sit down::
minibazooze: I think it's Eschaton's turn
minibazooze: otherwise we all forget what one side said
Harkguy43: Mr. von Wiemenoff you may speak
bogenberg: hello, i donot want to carry our side of this myself.
Disbelieverist: patience please
bogenberg: sorry
The Eschaton23: ::rises to speak:: Leaders and representatives of the nations of Menotomy, I, as a member of the Twenty-three wish to make it clear we have -no- intent of bending to the pressure of the invasive aggressor nation.
IanJ2000: ::rolls eyes::
The Eschaton23: All those of you who are UN members, especially Hastania, our delegate, have made it clear you have no wish for the UN to interfere in internal affairs.
bogenberg: correct
minibazooze: Are you done?
Disbelieverist: now now
The Eschaton23: Not as of yet
bogenberg: let the man type
The Eschaton23: I ask how we can expect to take Marklund seriously, as they have no rights over us of -any- kind. Thei actions are self-righteous and indicative on an arrogance that will doubtless lead to acts of hostility.
The Eschaton23: As such I come here with -no- intent to cooperate with Marklund or its allies until they recognize themselves as the -equals- of its fellow nations, as opposed to its moral superior.
The Eschaton23: That is all I wish to say in opening. ::sits::
IanJ2000: ::begins to lean back in my chair and cross my arms::
Harkguy43: Ok, Juthopia you may speak
minibazooze: ::stands::
minibazooze: Juthopia acknowledges its status as an equal to all nations in Menotomy.
The Eschaton23: ::nods gravely::
TheRef310: ::yawns::
minibazooze: We, as a nation, also feel responsibility to a certain extent to the citizens of the world.
IanJ2000: ::sends a glare towards the ossipee emperor::
bogenberg: ::takes notes on an annoyingly loud laptop::
minibazooze: Here is the Juthopia-Marklund proposal:
minibazooze: We understand if The Eschaton doesn't accept it.
minibazooze: We do not wish to oust the 23 CEOs.
minibazooze: We DO desire that The Eschaton allows more personal freedoms.
IanJ2000: ::nods::
bogenberg: ::realises that note taking is futile and put's away laptop, adjusts camera's::
minibazooze: A philosopher once classified governments in 27 ways.
minibazooze: Judging them in 3 ways,
minibazooze: Personal freedoms,
minibazooze: Economic Freedoms,
minibazooze: and Political Freedoms
minibazooze: as demonstrated in this chart.
minibazooze: We will stand down if the Eschaton rises one level in personal freedoms.
minibazooze: That is all.
minibazooze: ::sits down::
IanJ2000: ::stands up:: if i may
Harkguy43: I will allow it
bogenberg: secoded
The Eschaton23: As long as no others who have not spoken choose not to speak at this time.
TheRef310: ::Stands:: I wish to say something
IanJ2000: We mean that they reach the "compulsory consumerist state" square on the chart, one level above Eschaton's current level
IanJ2000: Thank you ::sits down::
Harkguy43: Emperor you may speak
minibazooze: Hastania is arriving.
bogenberg: if i may speak?
Harkguy43: Emperor Mahady was speaking but if he is done you may speak
TheRef310: I still would like to know what giives these
TheRef310: nations the rights to interfere with one nation's personal internal policy?
TheRef310: Our UN delegate, (if he ever gets here),
minibazooze: he is here
TheRef310: has tried to fght meddling in the personal issues of a gocernment.
SparkySeerofDoom: Good afternoon
minibazooze: Greetings.
SparkySeerofDoom: i am here
Harkguy43: Welcome
SparkySeerofDoom: Presenting Hastania's First citizen
SparkySeerofDoom: Vladamir Kastrioti
The Eschaton23: ::rises as Hastania's rep. enters::
minibazooze: ::rises::
bogenberg: ::sits::
IanJ2000: ::gives a polite clap::
TheRef310: ::Looks to the door:: Ahhh, I was just speaking of you!
SparkySeerofDoom: ::sits down::
bogenberg: ::Glairs::
TheRef310: I relenquish the floor.
The Eschaton23: ::takes his seat, folding his hands before him::
SparkySeerofDoom: "I supose intorductions are in order?"
bogenberg: burgia was just showing it's support of eschalon by protesting the unreal requirements of juthopia and markland, unless the to rise one level in one of the other sectors.
minibazooze: It's Eschaton...
Disbelieverist: ::Duran Chase, the representive of the Protectorate of Exponents, sits quietly analysing the proceedings
bogenberg: sorry
IanJ2000: ::passes a note over to begenberg::
The Eschaton23: I would like to speak no others wish to.
IanJ2000: ::raises his placard::
SparkySeerofDoom: "go a head"
Harkguy43: Mr. Kellanit goes first, the Mr. Von Wiemenoff
IanJ2000: Eschaton requested first, we will yield the floor to him.
Harkguy43: As you wish
bogenberg: Eschaton?
The Eschaton23: ::rises:: Welcome, First Citizen. Marklund and Juthopia have just made their proposal. If you should wish to hear it, perhaps it would best be explained by them, first. :looks to the abovementioned reps.::
bogenberg: agreed
minibazooze: Mr. Kellanit? Want to give it an overview?
minibazooze: Or shall I?
IanJ2000: Alright
IanJ2000: ::stands up::
IanJ2000: Essentially we have a 3 dimensional diagram of the different forms of government that exist in todays society
SparkySeerofDoom: ok
bogenberg: this chart
IanJ2000: It is shown on the following chart
IanJ2000: that one
IanJ2000: Currently Eschaton is a Corporate Police State
IanJ2000: We request that they improve their civil rights sufficiently so advance to the level of compulsory consumerist state
IanJ2000: They can leave their political and economic freedoms as they are, if they wish.
IanJ2000: ::sits down::
minibazooze: well said
bogenberg: it's ally, burgia, wishes juthopia and markland to mach the commitment
minibazooze: ?
IanJ2000: what do mean by that
minibazooze: we have
bogenberg: by raising there economy one level.
TheRef310: ::looks up from his laptop at the other delegates, finally focusing on the Eschaton's delegate::
minibazooze: That's a completely different issue.
bogenberg: bogenberg would also work for civil rights if this was accepted.
SparkySeerofDoom: Why does the economical aspect of the two countries matter in any way?
The Eschaton23: ::rises, clearing his throat:: Before I breach the topic of the 'secret alliance' which has caused so much unpleasantness, especially seeing as it includes our UN Delegate...
IanJ2000: Is this the desire of Wiemenhoff?
minibazooze: Burgia's civil rights are fine.
The Eschaton23: ::clears his throat again:: Gentlemen... if you please...
Harkguy43: Order! Order!
minibazooze: ::looks at feet::
Harkguy43: Let Mr. Von Wiemenoff speak
bogenberg: again
TheRef310: ::takes a sip from a well concealed flask::
Harkguy43: Mr. Bogenberg, please be silent while the other delagates are speeking
The Eschaton23: ::nods:: Many thanks. As I was saying, before the alliance is discussed, I would like to make it clear that the Eschaton does not feel it needs to be reformed in any way.
bogenberg: no mr. just bogenberg
Harkguy43: I will not ask you again Bogenberg
The Eschaton23: Recent studies have shown that the Eschaton's economy is unrivaled in the region, and that in shows the greatest potential for further growth.
The Eschaton23: We have allowed the skillful and talented of our nation to work hard to gain themselves a place in this world, and a standard of living many more socialist nations cannot lay claim to.
The Eschaton23: We keep law and order, and ensure that those who are willing to work hard will rise in an economy that supports private enterprise.
The Eschaton23: As opposed to our would-be reformer, Marklund whose income tax is entire, meaning -none- of its citizens are capable of creating independent fortunes and as such are slaves to the government teat.
TheRef310: ::shakes his head approvingly::
IanJ2000: ::raises placard::
The Eschaton23: I, and my twenty-two fellows, wonder how free a nation can be if they are granted no ability to determine their -own- monotary destiny.
The Eschaton23: ::takes his seat, clearly done speaking::
bogenberg: here here!!!
Harkguy43: Mr. Kellanit you may speak
SparkySeerofDoom: if i may have the floor?
IanJ2000: Thank you
IanJ2000: ::stands::
minibazooze: If it is ok with Marklund
Harkguy43: Mr. Kellanit raised his placard first but you may go next
IanJ2000: I feel what I have to say is rather important.
IanJ2000: It is in answer to two things said thus far
SparkySeerofDoom: very well
The Eschaton23: ::gazes at the Marklund rep. impassively::
TheRef310: ::takes another sip from aforementioned flask::
bogenberg: let the man speak!
IanJ2000: First of all, the economic and political systems we have in marklund have been voted upon and passed by our populace.
minibazooze: ::nods
minibazooze: ::
IanJ2000: They are in full agreement with the tax rate and feel it is the way they want their government run
IanJ2000: Next,
Disbelieverist: is it not presumptious to assume that all of your citizens agree with this?
IanJ2000: this question goes rather far back to early in the summit
TheRef310: It is still a valid point.
IanJ2000: We live in a country where the majority rules. To have decisions only made with full consent of every member of a 300 million person population is quite impossible
IanJ2000: Anyway
minibazooze: ::takes out notepad:
Disbelieverist: well thats quite different then stating you have full agreement from your citizens
IanJ2000: The reason we feel we have the right to impose our will on the Eschaton despite the fact that they are a sovereign nation
IanJ2000: is because we do not believe they have the right to impose their will on their population without their consent.
TheRef310: ::Stands up forefully:
Disbelieverist: so you have more of a right to impose than the Eschaton, that is hypocritcal
IanJ2000: Well ambassador from the Exponents, if you so desire, after this meeting I will ask for the most recent poll results on the tax issues
TheRef310: How can you say that, because they are soing something wrong,
bogenberg: why is that your belief, Marklund?
TheRef310: that gives YOU the right to do that same thing?
IanJ2000: We are imposing nothing upon the citizens of Eschaton
IanJ2000: only upon its government
IanJ2000: Why is what my belief?
bogenberg: yes, why
The Eschaton23: ::lifts his placard:: A rebuttal, very short, if I may?
IanJ2000: What belief are you referring to
Harkguy43: Hastania is slotted to speak next but after that you may speak
minibazooze: I'm okay with a rebuttal, but only if Mr. Kellanit is done.
IanJ2000: I will sit after i answer this final quesiton
The Eschaton23: ::nods and waits::
bogenberg: the belief that nations do not have a right to impose
IanJ2000: Why do we believe that nations cannot impose their will on others?
bogenberg: that is the question
IanJ2000: Thats is because each nation is a group of like minded individuals who have the right to decide how they want to govern themselves.
minibazooze: They are people, not animals!
minibazooze: ::quickly sits down::
IanJ2000: In Eschaton they are being governed not governing
IanJ2000: ::sits down::
bogenberg: you have sitill not ansered my question
IanJ2000: I believe i have
bogenberg: no, you have stated what you belive in a different way.
IanJ2000: Well ok, do you want to get into a discussion of why people have the beliefs they have?
The Eschaton23: ::rises, face stern:: My apologies for breaking the order of speaking, but I ask Juthopia to explain how they can claim a moral highground when their own political freedoms are severely limited.
minibazooze: May I speak?
Harkguy43: yes
bogenberg: i was asking a question!
The Eschaton23: It seems another example of being governed as opposed to governing!
minibazooze: ::stands::
IanJ2000: I have yielded the floor i believe it is Hastanias turn
The Eschaton23: ::sits, arms crossed:: Again I apologize.
minibazooze: ::sits::
bogenberg: ::stands, shesd bugged coat::
bogenberg: sits
Harkguy43: Mr. Kastrioti you may now speak
SparkySeerofDoom: ::rises:: "thank you"
SparkySeerofDoom: Although Hastania desired it to be a non-secret alience we still stand by our decision
SparkySeerofDoom: to suport marklund and juthopia
SparkySeerofDoom: if they are invaded
SparkySeerofDoom: also
The Eschaton23: ::raises his own placard again::
bogenberg: i still have not heard a response from markland, though he may like to weasel his way out of another genuine question.
minibazooze: ::raises placard::
IanJ2000: ::starts quickly writing a long note::
minibazooze: ::glares at bogenberg::
SparkySeerofDoom: I am not necesarely obligated on sharing the decisions of Hastania
Harkguy43: Mr. Lowenstein may speak, themn the ambasador from Escahton
minibazooze: I will wait for Mr. Kastrioti to finish
Harkguy43: after Mr. Kastrioti is done
SparkySeerofDoom: I condem the sanctions imposed by every one
bogenberg: ::calmly replaces coat, prepairs to leave this barn::
SparkySeerofDoom: and though some are usefull
SparkySeerofDoom: and others are pintless
SparkySeerofDoom: its not going to do anything other than hurt people
bubthezombie85 has entered the room.
minibazooze: Introductions?
SparkySeerofDoom: Furthermore i would like to mention that Hastania is protecting the territory of what used o be new monotemy from eschaton
bubthezombie85: Will Butler, otherwise known as Willhelm Von Herzbrunner, of Wyczestr
The Eschaton23: ::scowls as Kastrioti says this::
SparkySeerofDoom: We lay no claim on the territory but will not have escheton take over the area
bubthezombie85: Hastania's representative announced yesterday that the troops would be pulled out of former New Menotomy
SparkySeerofDoom: in short we want a bufferzone
SparkySeerofDoom: they have been pulled out
bogenberg: then why do you not let the new nation use this territory, as it is newtral?
SparkySeerofDoom: but any actions by escheton will change that
The Eschaton23: That is presumptuous to the extreme. The Eschaton has shown no interest in the area. In fact, we have shown /no/ intention of making any aggressive actions. This matter began with the Eschaton's declaration of neutrality!
SparkySeerofDoom: it is up to the people to decide
The Eschaton23: This assumption that we are dangerous and invasive is insulting and entirely /baseless/!
SparkySeerofDoom: we are simply guarantying their independence
The Eschaton23: Under your watchful eye, of course!
bogenberg: my question stands
SparkySeerofDoom: better us than you
The Eschaton23: More arrogance!
The Eschaton23: I suggest Juthopia speak.
Disbelieverist: yeah
bogenberg: Better the new guy than any of us!!!
Disbelieverist: ::shakes head::
Harkguy43: Juthopia may speak
The Eschaton23: And that this matter be shelved until it is time to address it, delegate.
SparkySeerofDoom: it is not arrogance it is only the truth
TheRef310: ::drinks:: talk of this neutral territory had no relevance for him
Disbelieverist: only from your perspective hastania
The Eschaton23: Your presumption that you know what is true is arrogance of the highest order.
The Eschaton23: Please, give the floor to Juthopia.
minibazooze: Ok
IanJ2000: I would ask that the head of this summit force some decorum on its members!
SparkySeerofDoom: Hastania is not touching that land however we have reason to believe escheton could exploit it
minibazooze: Let me lay out everything.
The Eschaton23: I believe, -delegate-, that the floor is Juthopia's.
SparkySeerofDoom: the floor is your juthopia
minibazooze: Marklund and Juthopia believe that Eschatonic citizens need basic rights.
SparkySeerofDoom: yours
minibazooze: We proposed that we would back down if the civil rights level goes to the middle spectrum.
bogenberg: this chart
minibazooze: The Eschaton has yet to directly comment, if I am right.
minibazooze: I shall now hand the floor over to Wyczestr if that is alright.
minibazooze: ::sits::
Harkguy43: Wycestr you may speak
SparkySeerofDoom: I would like to mention that this isnt soposed to be a threat its mearly a preventative measure. One that is much more reasonable than any other demand or recouse that has been curently happening
bubthezombie85: well, Wyczestr would support this agreement in principle
bubthezombie85: but, what is the timetable for it? would sanctions remain in place until the political changes are made? and if they aren't made, what would the repercussions be?
The Eschaton23: Hastanian delegate! This is not the time!
bogenberg: ::raises plackard::
minibazooze: May I answer Mr. Von Herzbrunner?
bubthezombie85: of course
SparkySeerofDoom: Hastania believes that marklund and juthopia's request is a fair one if something is given in return
Harkguy43: Please stop talking out of turn
bogenberg: as does burgia
Harkguy43: Bogenberg may speak, the Juthopia
Harkguy43: thrn
Harkguy43: then***
bogenberg: Thank you
The Eschaton23: ::raises his placard::
TheRef310: ((three in a row.... oy))
Harkguy43: ((:-( bad typing today))
Harkguy43: EScahton may speak after Juthopia
bogenberg: Bogenberg wishes merely to point out that in return for advancement, markland offers nothing
bogenberg: .
minibazooze: It's not a trade
minibazooze: Is it Juthopia's turn?
IanJ2000: ::raises placard::
Harkguy43: yes
bogenberg: that is correct, you are erely demanding action with no
TheRef310: ::raises flask::
bogenberg: actual means for enforcement, nor reason
minibazooze: We are requesting action, first of all.
bubthezombie85: :raises placard:
minibazooze: Secondly, this isn't a trade because in some societies, this would be considered global treason against mankind. This is NOT our accusation because that is not how we do things here.
minibazooze: Here's our plan.
minibazooze: Marklund and Juthopia request a formal declaration of reform from the Eschaton, along with
bogenberg: minibazooze: We will stand down if the Eschaton rises one level in personal freedoms. to quote
Harkguy43: Bogenbreg it is not your turn
minibazooze: i'm explaining to Wyzestr, interruptor
bogenberg: that is what i call a demand
minibazooze: that's not a demand, it's cause and effect
minibazooze: interruptor again
minibazooze: as i was saying
Harkguy43: Bogenberg you were asked to not interrupt and you have continued to do so, one more time and you will be expelled
minibazooze: along with statistical improvement (the civil rights category goes up one rank) in 2 weeks
minibazooze: ::sits::
minibazooze: next?
Harkguy43: ok Eschaton
bubthezombie85: wait
minibazooze: Eschaton raises first
minibazooze: *raised
bubthezombie85: ok
Harkguy43: it is eschatons turn, you are after him
The Eschaton23: ::rises::
The Eschaton23: In order to cease the waste of any more of our valuable time, Gentlemen of the summit, I will make the following clear:
bogenberg: ::leaves this hen-house, withdraws all statements::
IanJ2000: ::shakes head::
The Eschaton23: The Eschaton has -no- intention to bend to -any- pressure from the hypocritical nations of Marklund and Juthopia. It is not that the ideals they support are upsetting, but we will not allow this sort of precedent to be set.
minibazooze: Hypocritical?
Harkguy43: please no interruptions
minibazooze: ::throws placard into air, sticks to ceiling::
IanJ2000: ::raises placard::
minibazooze: ::placard falls back into Mr. Lowensteins hands::
Harkguy43: Marklund you will be allowed to speakafter Wyczestr
IanJ2000: ::nods::
The Eschaton23: As such, these nations may 'embargo away' as it might be said. With all due respect, our economy hardly relies on the puny manufacturing base of Marklund, or on those of its allies.
SparkySeerofDoom: ::raises placard::
minibazooze: ::raises placard again, carefully::
The Eschaton23: We will -not- be bullied, we will -not- be coerced and we will -not- allow hypocrits to rule over more rational nations.
TheRef310: ::raises flask, quite beligerently::
minibazooze: ::shakes head, disbelievingly::
The Eschaton23: That, Gentlemen of the Summit is... ::he glances at his beeping laptop:: Gentlemen, I have some news from the borderguard.
minibazooze: What is it?
The Eschaton23: It seems Burgia's troops have arrived at their border with the former nation of New Menotomy.
Disbelieverist: The protectorate of Exponents supports the Eschatons right for self rule
minibazooze: Interrupting?
TheRef310: As does Little Ossipee
Disbelieverist: I apologize
The Eschaton23: Perhaps a nation has decided to take Hastania's lead, and decide they know what is best for that region.
Harkguy43: Gentleman pleas restrain yourselves
IanJ2000: NO YOU SUPPORT THE "23 CEOs" RIGHT TO RULE OF ESCHATON
IanJ2000: ESCHATON IS NOT RULING ITSELF
minibazooze: Hear hear!
The Eschaton23: ::makes a small bow:: I am done, for now. ::he sits::
Harkguy43: Mr. Kellanit it is not your turn to speak
IanJ2000: my apologies
Harkguy43: it is Wyczestr's
Harkguy43: you are afterward
SparkySeerofDoom: ::takes a flask out of coat pocket and drinks::
Disbelieverist: I object to your belief that you know what is better for the Eschaton and its people
Harkguy43: Mr. Chase <stern look>
minibazooze: ::takes a Juthopia-Cola out an sips::
TheRef310: Juthopia, you are SUCH a hypocrite! Telling Exponents to hush, then interrupting yourself!
bubthezombie85: Wyczestr supports the Eschaton and its current regime. We believe that reform in the Eschaton should be no concern of Marklund's.
Disbelieverist: You have not admonished Marklund for its intereuption
Harkguy43: PLEASE! IT IS WYCZESTR'S TURN!
IanJ2000: ::passes note to exponents::
The Eschaton23: ::steeples his fingers and watches::
minibazooze: ::gestures aren't interruptions
TheRef310: tisk tisk tisk, that note should be passed forwward and read to the class.
Harkguy43: Wyczestr you may continue
minibazooze: ::laughs quietly::
IanJ2000: ::passes note note to cruhad::
The Eschaton23: ::glances to the door, and taps one of his aides, who runs off.
bubthezombie85: We will not be intimidated by the empty words coming out of Marklund. Marklund and its allies are militarily and economically insignificant.
bubthezombie85: If they intend to continue their hostile policy towards the Eschaton they must be prepared for the consequences.
Harkguy43: Anyone interrupting again will be expelled from the summit for today
IanJ2000: ::snickers to himself::
bubthezombie85: Wyczestr will not stand by while the moralistic left wing nations of Menotomy attempt to slowly strangle the Eschaton with economic sanctions.
Harkguy43: Marklund is next if Wyczestyr is finished
bubthezombie85: Wyczestr concedes the floor to Marklund.
IanJ2000: Thank you
IanJ2000: ::stands up::
IanJ2000: I must say that we expected this kind of behavior from Eschaton.
IanJ2000: Afterall, Hitler committed suicide with the red army outside his bunker
IanJ2000: It took that much to make him concede
TheRef310: ::looks at the Markllundian ambassador quizically::
IanJ2000: Yet I came anyway on behalf of my people, we were hoping negotiations may work
The Eschaton23: ::just gazes at the Marklund Ambassador with an unreadable expression::
IanJ2000: Apparently not.
SparkySeerofDoom: ::raises placard::
Harkguy43: <notes Hastania's placard>
IanJ2000: I also wonder what consequences wyczestr is talking about,
IanJ2000: Thank you
IanJ2000: ::sits down::
bubthezombie85: ::raises placard::
Harkguy43: Alright Juthopia may speak
SparkySeerofDoom: ::stands::
SparkySeerofDoom: oh nv
Harkguy43: you are after
minibazooze: ::stands::
minibazooze: I have a few... clarifications.
minibazooze: We have been called hypocritical.
minibazooze: Juthopia's civil rights are almost in the top classification.
minibazooze: Marklund's already are.
minibazooze: Our economies have been called insignificant.
minibazooze: Juthopia's is thriving.
minibazooze: Marklund's is good.
minibazooze: Also
bogenberg: Burgia re enters as an ally of eschaton
bogenberg: shutting up
The Eschaton23: ::lifts his hand:: A clarification, if I might. Momentary.
minibazooze: Juthopia and Marklund have tried to settle this diplomatically.
minibazooze: yes?
minibazooze: you may speak Mr. Van Wiemenhoff
The Eschaton23: ::rises:: The Eschaton said that Marklund's manufacturing base was puny. It is. It is the smallest in the region, while ours is the largest.
The Eschaton23: We said nothing of Juthopia's.
bogenberg: juthopa, please continue
The Eschaton23: Moreover, the hypocricy comes from the -political- enslavement. Civil rights have nothing to do with governing and opposed to being governed, which is the issue Marklund raised.
minibazooze: Are you done, Representative?
The Eschaton23: And political freedoms are... unheard of in Juthopia. -That- is clear hypocricy. That is all. ::sits:::
SparkySeerofDoom: sit down chairman
minibazooze: Thank you.
minibazooze: As I was saying,
The Eschaton23: ::lifts a quizzical eyebrow at Hastania's delegate::
minibazooze: The Juthopian government works differently.
IanJ2000: ::raises placard::
Harkguy43: noted you are after hastania who is next
bogenberg: ::eats dinner::
minibazooze: We use public plebiscites concerning issues we believe the public has a say about
minibazooze: UNLIKE issues of defense and such.
SparkySeerofDoom: will that be all?
minibazooze: almost
minibazooze: yes
minibazooze: ::sits::
SparkySeerofDoom: ::stands::
minibazooze: ::reopens Juthopia-Cola and drinks::
SparkySeerofDoom: First
SparkySeerofDoom: I would like to make clear to all that Hastania is simply making sure that former new monotemy does not become a part of any other country
SparkySeerofDoom: we are not taking it over for ourselves
TheRef310: ::opens up a bottle of Little Ossippeaide::
SparkySeerofDoom: and we do not have forces in the area curently
SparkySeerofDoom: second
SparkySeerofDoom: we would like to mention that Hastania has remained resonably neutral in this issue
bogenberg: ::bolth drinks simultainiusly explode in clouds of smoke which read "drink burgia-aid"::
SparkySeerofDoom: but exponent's tarifs on us have made this perticularly hard
minibazooze: ::gets new bottle::
SparkySeerofDoom: whatever...
SparkySeerofDoom: we agnolage that marklund's requests have been steep
SparkySeerofDoom: but not unwarented
SparkySeerofDoom: and as such we are not making any of these damands ourselves
minibazooze: ::gives a "is it really that steep" look::
SparkySeerofDoom: however our defensive alience stands
The Eschaton23: ::raises his placard::
Disbelieverist: ::raises placard::
bogenberg: ::gives jutopia the "yes, it is" look::
Harkguy43: ok noted, order is Marklund, Eschaton, Exponents
SparkySeerofDoom: Hastania has been fighting in the UN to keep UN issues that intrude on indepenednt countries to a minimum
minibazooze: ::gives bogenberg the Juthopian finger::
SparkySeerofDoom: our stance stands for domestic issues as well therefore
SparkySeerofDoom: domestic being in mootemy
SparkySeerofDoom: monotemy
SparkySeerofDoom: thus we request that the sanctions against Hastania are removed
bogenberg: ::as the cola explodes yet again, this time reading "this is simple"::
SparkySeerofDoom: in the idea of fairness hastania has done just about nothing but enforce what we already said we would do
SparkySeerofDoom: my sugestion is that escheton has little to lose in the proposed deal
IanJ2000: ::passes not to hastania::
SparkySeerofDoom: and that when marklund was clearly willing to deal escheton was not
bubthezombie85: ::raises placard::
SparkySeerofDoom: ::sits down::
Harkguy43: marklund, eschaton, exponents Wycestr
minibazooze: ok
TheRef310: ::sips his lemonade with the label clearly displayed
Harkguy43: marklund it is your turn
minibazooze: ::Mr. Lowenstein
SparkySeerofDoom: I propose that eschetan ecepts in the hopes that this little feud can finaly end
SparkySeerofDoom: exepts
minibazooze: 's cell phone rings::
TheRef310: I propose that Marklund removes all sanctions from the Eschaton, in order for this to end
minibazooze: I have to leave, we have a hurricane nearing the shore.
Harkguy43: I will end this in 15 minutes
bogenberg: it has been 2 hours
bogenberg: i'm going
Harkguy43: if by then a conclusion has not been reached I doubt one will
bubthezombie85: I concur with Little Ossipee's statement - Marklund has nothing to lose by backing down, as the Eschaton does.
SparkySeerofDoom: I believe that Hastania has said all that they could in this situation
SparkySeerofDoom: gentelmen
SparkySeerofDoom: ::leaves::
SparkySeerofDoom has left the room.
IanJ2000: ::looks to cruhad::
bubthezombie85: marklund's actually supposed to be next, right?
Harkguy43: Marklund may speak
IanJ2000: ::stands up::
IanJ2000: Ok a few things I'll try to be quick
IanJ2000: Although we personally have nothing to lose by backing down we feel there is much to be lost.
IanJ2000: That being the lives of the people of eschaton
IanJ2000: In addition, earlier someone mentioned we are willing to give nothing in exchange for the "23 CEOs" compliance
IanJ2000: You should all note that little has been suggested on that matter. We are listening.
IanJ2000: Thank you
IanJ2000: ::sits down::
Harkguy43: eschaton
Harkguy43: its your turn
The Eschaton23: ::rises::
IanJ2000: ::looks intently at the CEO::
The Eschaton23: We have already made our stance clear. We will not be coerced. This matter was started by Marklund as a reaction to our declaration of neutrality. We want no war, we want no conflict.
IanJ2000: ::mutters something::
TheRef310: ::glares at Marklund::
bubthezombie85: ::pounds fist on table::
Harkguy43: Gentlemen!
The Eschaton23: We simply want to have our rights as a soveriegn nation respected. We believe reform starts at home, and if Juthopia wishes to join this moralistic crusade they ought to consider making political freedoms legal in their own nation.
minibazooze has entered the room.
The Eschaton23: Also, Marklund ought to give its own citizens the right to persue private enterprise, instead of making them minions of their welfare system.
IanJ2000: ::raises placard::
minibazooze: I am a representative from the embassy here to replace Mr. Lowenstein
minibazooze: What have I missed since he left?
The Eschaton23: Also, we will not allow ourselves to painted as aggressors when Marklund is the nation that began this debaucle and has engaged in the creation of -secret- alliances.
IanJ2000: ::raises placard higher:
Harkguy43: noted marklund
Disbelieverist: Agreed!
The Eschaton23: Alliances that were responsible, as our terribly well historically informed Marklundian ambassador will sure know, the European First World War.
Harkguy43: gentlemen 5 minutes remain
minibazooze: ::raises placard::
The Eschaton23: As such, I don't think my opponents have a single philosophical leg to stand on. We will not bend. We will stand up for our fellow nations who determine their own fate. That is all. ::sits down::
TheRef310: ;;raises flask::
Harkguy43: exponents it is your turn
Disbelieverist: While the protectorate has been mostly quiet though out this summit, we have are own opinions about the situation. We fault marklund for instigating this conflict and also on having a secret alliance in place for its defense
Disbelieverist: in addition we believe that in this situation the agressers are marklund and juthopia.
minibazooze: ::raises placard higher::
Harkguy43: 1 minute remains
TheRef310: ::raises flask highest:::
Disbelieverist: we believe that our tariffs are a show of protest against these agressors
Disbelieverist: and their allies
Harkguy43: I'm sorry but the time of the summit has run out

The Empire of Oltramar would like to state it's opinion on this matter.

I understand that this debate is not mine to argue with, and my nation is going to stay neutral. I believe that every nation should have it's right to rule it's nation as it wishes, and i can not say for sure, but as it sounds Eschaton is treating its citizens less than humane. If this is not true, please forgive me. Possibly the 23 CEOs could consider lessening the restrictions on it's people, and this could be an end to this dispute.

On another note, any nation wishing to trade with Oltramar, please just send a telegram my way. Thank you.

Any way you could make that an attachment, instead of having to scroll past it every time?

::sips from his bottle of Little Ossipeaide:: "Ahhh, wash the taste of Marklund out of your mouth"

/commercial

burgias troops sre on the southern border of the neutral territory.
we have a full alliance with eschaton.

*After summit interview of the Emperor is being televised tonight on Ossipean airwaves*
"I believe I speak for all when I say that the summit was a big waste of everyone's time. Marklund was obviously not going to be reasonable, and so all that happened was that it ended up being one giant screaming match, although slightly more civil, but at some points, it felt like an actual fist fight was going to break out.

I am sure that the Eschaton will be able to survive the sanctions. They've gotten this far with our help, and we will continue our support of the Eschaton's right to self-rule, and deny Marklund the power to meddle in other countrys businesses. Now if you will excuse me, I have a boat to catch."

*Military Update*

As of right now, the Ossipean divisions have still not made any forward progress, nor does it look like they will. It seems that they are setting up a supply base for further troop movement, but nothing is quite certain as of now. The base has started almost a mini-town around it of nomadic un-allied people that wish to trade for basic goods with the troops, which they are more than happy to do, in exchange for manual and skilled labor. The troops are expecting another shipment of goods shortly, along with many reservists to help fortify their position.

Firstly, I would like to annouce that I have returned from the summit, my aid did an excellent job in my steade of course. Now onto bussiness. The Little Ossipeean Emperor is showcasing his talent for hypocracy. First, he mentions how we were unreasonable at the Summit despite the fact that anyone can clearly see our desire to negotiate. The Eschaton is the nation who were unwilling to budge or come to some form of compromise. Let me outline to everyone the deal that the Juthopian leader and myself put forward.
We desire an increase in civil rights in Eschaton so that their government moves from a corporate dictatorship to a compulsory consumerist state. We ask that they declare they are committed to this deal and that they make some increase in civil rights within two weeks and that the entire change be made within two months.
Now, the reason why we request civil right and not political rights is because we understand that nations in the region support the dictatorship but everyone must at least agree to the basic rights of man.

The next showing of hypocracy that the Emperor exhibits is his announcement of his support for self-rule despite his moves against it on two counts. First, the people of Eschaton's right to self-rule, and the people's of the area his troops occupy. He is encroaching on their land and is even building permanent buildings there. If I may share some information with you now that the Emperor will surely deny. Early in this conflict taking place the Emperor and Manich Yentir (Marklundian Ambassador to Little Ossipee) were in constant correspondance. During their messages back and forth, the Emperor expressed his desire to be permanently given land and promised to lend his support to Marklund in exchange for that land. Now he is not supporting us but he is moving to take land. We all remember the Allies policy of appeasement in world war II. I do not ask nations to go to war but I do ask if they will tolorate an imperialistic nation to exist in our region.

Thank You,
Parokif Kellanit, Official Voice of the People of Marklund

It has come to the attention to most of the reagion that Hastania's citizens are protesting against the recent government aproval to increace deffense funding. Protesters say that the breaking point was when the government decided to fund a nuclear weapons program

Burgian troops, armed with finger-chopper-offers and soda bottle grenades, have begun to advance north through the neutral ground. it has yet to encounter resistance in it's path, though it has strict orders not to fire unless fired opon first.

Near the outskirts of the Holy Empire, in the stripmined wastes that were once the Lampelicht Woods, a structure has been erected. Marked by the eye-and-pyramid sigil of the 23's unified authority, trucks begin to arrive at this new building, bearing blackdraped cargo. Drilling begins, lasting day after day... while white coated scientists and engineers labour on the same task that is being undertaken in secret across the country. The Immenatization. Transformation of enriched uranium into bombs capable of nuclear fission... and (with the needed hydrogen) fusion.
As well as chemical weapons.
And biological weapons.
For national security, of course.

In an emergency press confrence, the Emperor denies all claims of such "corrospondence" made between our governments. "It is a simple case of trying to drive the Eschaton to distrusting their allies. I firmly, and always have, stood beside the Eschaton. All of these accusations are baseless and petty. About the troops "infringing" on the rights of the nomadic groups, they do not own the land, they have decided to gather around our caravan for trading opportunities. If they wished us to be expelled from the area, all they would have to do would be ask. We are there because they want us to be there to protect them from tribal disputes, which we facilitate in an orderly and civil manner rather than the blood feuds of their culture. We are only there to help."

In other developments, there has been several large construction jobs commisioned by the government out in the previously clean - cut area of Gorham. Rumors of what they are being put to use are rampant, but biological, nuclear and chemical testing seem to be the prevalent ones.

((Sorry for any mis-spelling, but I'm going to be late for work due to this and "Something Positive"))

The Eperor of Wyczestr, Hanz Heinrich II has ordered the navy to implement a blockade on Hastania. We hereby withdraw our ambassadors (as well as civillian personel) from Marklund, Juthopia, Hastania, and the Sniffilis. Likewise, all citizens of those nations are being given 24 hours to leave Wyczestr. We also demand that Hastania halt its nuclear weapons program. If Hastania continues with its nuclear research, Wyczestr will be forced to take countermeasures.

We understand that many of you feel that economic sanctions are wrong and are not an acceptable action to take. Regardeless, they are an action between one nation and another. Wyczestr has now begun actual military aggression against the nation of Hastania. Their blockade not only affects Hastania, but all nations wishing to engage in trade with Hastania. They have also called for a halt to Hastania's nuclear program without making a similar demand to either of its allies. I beseech that you all remain wary of this nation as although you see us as being aggressive, we have never engaged in military action. Marklund itself recently had a bill to begin a nuclear, chemical, and biological, up for vote. We unlike many of our neighbors, are opposed to proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, and the bill was promptly voted down. We would like to make it clear that we support nuclear non-proliferation and beseech all nations to do the same.

Please do not doom our region to complete destruction,
Parokif Kellanit, Official Voice of the People of Marklund

((Umm, wouldn't it be weird for there to be a new country in territory that my troops are currently occupying? They're kinda parked right in the middle of where you put Debiana (Chris S's nation)...))

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=56012

Who is where? Troop-wise, of course.

the troops have dissapeared suddenly from the former neautral territory, and have started a second line of defence behind hastania's naval forces. burgian suply jets, usualy used for the transport of burgia-aid, are reported as being seen above markland, flying tight circles that most people were unaware they could do. burgian trucks are ariveing with burgia-aid c4, 1/4 the sugar, 1/4 the calories, 4 times the explosion.

are pictured in the map.

Wyczestr reaffirms its right to blockade Hastania as a self defense measure. We will not fire on or try to obstruct the passage of ships carrying food, consumer goods, or supplies for basic infrastructure, but we will board ships we suspect of carrying nuclear weapons or materials necessary for the production of nuclear weapons. These ships will not be fired upon, nor will the crews be harmed or detained provided they comply with our searches.
In addition, Wyczestr condemns the secret orbital weapons programs of the People's republic of Marklund, which claims to be a pacifist country, but which it seems has carried out covert military research solely for the purpose of agression.

OOC - It seems like everybody has some sort of weapon of mass destruction by now. before this turns into a shooting war let's reach some sort of agreement on how much damage these weapons can do, how they can be destroyed, and just go over a few other issues so that we all have a common understanding of how the war can be waged. the worst thing would be if nobody would accept defeat and the action just became more and more fanciful until nothing made any sense. maybe we should have another AIM summit?

The Peoples Republic of Markland and the Pricipality of Juthopia, having made unreasonable demands, and when faced with reasonable responces, have started econonomic sanctions against the appealing nations. Therefor, with great care, the Incorporated States of Burgia declares that a state of war now exists between our nations.

-Resolution 356 of the Parlament of Burgia

OOC- for whoever is updating the map, Wyczestrs navy is blockading the north coast of Hastania.

<Quote from the Resolution passed by the Committee of Jingoistic States earlier today>

In a unanimous consensus by the fourteen states represented here that the Jingoistic States of Izgimmer not engage itself in the conflict that has divided Menotomy. Therefore, the Jingoistic States of Izgimmer will adhere to a code of strict neutrality in this conflict between Marklund and The Eschaton.

- Committee of the Jingoistic States

ooc - I am John C for those of you who haven't figured it out yet.

Throughout the Empire of Wyczestr today, five million men aged 18-35 were called up for military service. These reservists are currently being trained at bases safe within the heart of the Empire, while 40 divisions of the regular army began arriving at Wyczestr's borders to reinforce the border guards defending our nation's frontiers. In Schannenburg, the old Capitol of the Kingdom of Wyczestr, a military parade of men, tanks, and armored vehicles marched through the Arch of Freedom while Wyczestr's new state-of-the-art jet fighters flew overhead leaving black and red trails in the cloudless sky. The assembled crowd of twenty thousand raised their voices in unity as they sang the national anther of Wyczestr, "The Crown and the Shield."

The Empire of Oltramar would like to repeat the fact that it is staying neutral in ny war that may sprout from this debate, which it seems is most likely to happen. If you telegram me before hand, I probably will allow passage through my country for your troops. If any conflict comes of this, I will immidietly join the opposing side of those that instigated battle within my borders. Any country that makes threatening acts towards my people, or moves through my nation before receiving my consent, will be marked as an enemy, and any allies they have will also be marked enemies. Peace to All.

Now that Burgia has declared war I suggest that we put a pause on all forms of roleplay until we actual have a way for war to be carried out.

OOC - ok. Each person gets one move per post. It can include more than one type of military though. No Godmoding, the other person assesses the damage that your attacks actually do. Please be fair and reasonable. Let the RP continue!

"As allies to the regions of Burgia and Wyczestr, we are obligated to help their war effort, although I am afraid we have our own conflicts to face, so it will mostly be economic support that we will offer at this point."

The troops in the new state of Debiana are dug in, and will continue to be so until an organized government requests their removal from the Little Ossipean emporer. They are there as a peace keeping force only, they are not there to influence the Debian government in any way, shape or form.

I think we need to set some ground rules besides that, create some hard values for military stengths and weaknesses. I definetly think that an out of character summit to discuss everything is in order. We need to create some sort of nationstates war system.

OOC - how many people here play Risk? if we divide each belligerent nation into several regions, then calculate its number of troops based on a combination of population and military expenses, we could carry out the conventional part of the war with Risk rules. This still leaves the unconventional side of the war open, which is kind of difficult as most countries have either nukes, orbital weapons, or spy organizations. How about an AIM summit tomorrow at 4:00 PM? i know thats a long time, but we should make sure everyone is in on this. I'll be availible all day if everyone else would like to do this earlier

sounds like a good idea to me, risk as well as the summit.

all day tommorrow is good for me, i'll be there. i can't say that i hadn't considered the idea of using risk myself, me and juthopia talked about it before, and me and hastania even talked about using another wargame we know about. i do see some problems with risk, mostly because they come as disadvantages to me i'm sure. risk relegates pretty much every advantage my nation has to chance. things like generalship, technology, morale. none of that is considered in risk. to be quite honest, in risk its army size that matters and historically its very rarely been the larger side that wins battles, but the side with better tactics and technology. of course all of this can be talked about in the summit...

ooc> here is an idea for the map. green lines and borders are the territorys. see what you think.

Juthopia finds the declaration of war by Burgia appalling. Juthopia has never taken any action against Burgia, although Burgia aligned itself with Eschaton. Juthopia also does not understand how it has been designated the aggressor when Burgia declared war while no other nation has. Juthopia also calls on any country that still enjoys rule without martial law to stand up for what is right.

JUTHOPIA DOES NOT WISH TO FIGHT A WAR BUT ANY NATION WHO DECLARES WAR ON JUTHOPIA WILL FACE THE CONSEQUENCES.

Premier Walter Richelieu
Principality of Juthopia

((I was away the weekend and said so; could war declaration have waited? Some respect please?))

ooc>I only declared war last night. jeeze.

I can do the summit. Is this going to be in Cruhad again?

:-0

No you aren't neutral.

since this is an out of character summit it doesnt really have to be hosted by a particular country IMO. I do agree with marklund about the factors other than military (i.e. morale, economy, technology), but i think these all have to be factors that are included in the online part of the game - that is, stuff that each country has because of their decisions on issues, not stuff that they simply declare that they have. Obviously not everyone remembers everything they approved in the issues section, so we'll see what we can figure out... also, does anybody else remember their rankings in the military expenses bit? i was first, eschaton was 2nd, ossipee was 3rd, marklund was 7th, hastania was 5th or 6th i think, Juthopia was about 10th, was Burgia 4th? i really wish there was a way you could get all those rankings when you really need them :-\

I agree that those factors should be determined by the in game fluff. the reason i mentioned those is due to the fact that i have an extremely well developed and advanced education system. i would assume that would lead to technological developement as well as able commanders and and such. as for morale, thats pretty difficult to determine but my people are patriotic and since burgias declaration, they are on the defensive fighting for their homeland. that tends to lead to high morale. and lets not forget that marklund from creation has had compulsory military service.

Hastania is now willing to go to war if any of it's surrounding countries are attacked.(Izgimer, Debiana, Eckerd) These are developing countries who's independence must be protected.

OOC: can someone please explain to burgia what god moding is? He seems to be unaware.

In the recent troubles, the Protectorate of Exponents has announced the creation of a defensive army to protect the freedoms of its people. (OOC- I just got the issue like 10 minutes ago to build an army) This army will by no means be used to attack any other nation with out reasonable cause. I would also like to reply to accusations that this Protectorate is fully supporting or in some form of alliance with the nation of the Eschaton, Little Ossipee, Burgia or any other nation. The Protectorate has only taken the stance of self-rule as apposed to a regime change.

Now that open war has been declared, I personally will speak for the "Jammin'", when i offer my sincere regrets that this conflict could not be resolved peacefully. We will now create full sanctions against the nation of Burgia, and strongly implore Burgia's allies to not allow their alliances to cause a larger, bloodier war. We have also withdrawn our delegation that was stationed in Burgia.

I also will now offer humanitarian aid to any nation that requires it and will also offer shelter for any refugees who will appear at our borders.

In "Jammin's" Name
- Duran Chase, Foreign Minister of the Protectorate of Exponents

so can we still do a summit at 4 today? everyone who can do it just leave a "yes".

Yes.

I think that the nation's armies should be more population based, because, well, it just makes sense. If you have a larger population, you have a larger army. If you have a larger manufacturing base, you have a better equipped army. If you have a biological, nuclear, and chemical weapons plant, then you have those weapons. If you've decided to build a larger army, then yes, you should HAVE a larger army. Ossipee also has compulsury military service. And 2X orbital weaponry. And is selling bio, chem and nuclear weapons to other countries for QUITE a tidy profit. And 7th largest manufacturing base in the region.

ooc> here is an idea for the map. green lines and borders are the territorys. see what you think.
Why do I get only TWO regions when everyone else (excluding Snifflis) has three?

OOC: Yes I can go to the summit. In the Nationstates forums there are great threads on Godmoding (cough, Burgia), and army size and such. Risk is an ok idea but it would be nore realistic if it was used as a basis not the end all be all. I guess this will be discussed in the Summit.

IC: After seeing the Declaration of Burgia's Parliament stating that it was going to war against Juthopia and Marklund, Cruhad must side itself with Juthopia and Marklund and declare war on Burgia. The demands by the aforementioned countries were not even directed at Burgia, nor were there any trade sanctions of Burgia. By giving support to Juthopia and Marklund we are NOT supporting the sanctions on The Eschaton, nor their demands, we are just supporting their right not to be attacked for no reason.

lets just wait until the summit to decide how big everyone's army is. also, it would be cool if we could include air force and navy in this somehow. maybe air force could attack territories across 2 borders but not actually be able to occupy them and always leave one enemy unit alive (this is assuming we play like risk). I have a feeling that no matter what rules we use there's going to be a big honor code factor (in rolling dice or whatever).

Yes. AIM again, right?

yeah - i'll start a chatroom at 4 and just invite everyone thats on. we'll post the chat in the forum so anybody that misses it will know the rules.

Eschaton is currently at an Oral Surgeon's office.

I'll be there, (probably) though.

f00
Why do I get only TWO regions when everyone else (excluding Snifflis) has three?

how about diplomacy instead. we can use the same map.

http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/home.htm

we can make rules for air power.

What's diplomacy?

sort of like risk, but different, would be more accurate.

cool game based on WWI

f00
Size doesn't ALWAYS matter.......

; P

What exactly are you alluding to?

In light of the declaration of war by the peoples of Burgia on the peoples of Marklund and Juthopia, the Holy Empire of the Eschaton, spoken for by its chosen council of Twenty-three CEOs, is restating its official neutrality. It will, however, not cease trade with any of the combatants with which it was previously trading. We neither support Burgia's movements, nor truly condemn them, seeing as we have already suffered from the arrogance and tyranny of our self-righteous neighbors. Our people cry out for action against Juthopia and Marklund, but the Eschaton will not be seen as an instigator. We expect our neutrality to be respected, and should it not be we shall not hesitate to bring the full power of our nation to bear against our foes.
In the interests of giving our delclaration teeth the Eschaton is turning a portion its manufacturies to the end of producing armour and other weapons of war for the defence of our lands. Our army, already large and well funded, will be put on full alert in the case of incursion. This is a dark time in Menotomy, but we assure our people that we will not fall, the pyramid shall not tumble, and the light of the Eye shall see us through.
<signed> The Twenty-three Chief Executive Officers of the Eschaton

i actualy just put that in there because the web site wanted actual (non-quoted) text.

the burgian parlament will withdraw it's declaration of war if every nation removes economic sanktions.

The Empire of Oltramar would like it to be known that Cruhad has asked for, and was granted, permission to pass through my nation. Any other country wisghing to do so, allly of Cruhad or not, needs only to telegram me and they shall most likely be allowed.

With the permission of The Empire of Oltramar, The Cruhadi 1st Legion (about 1 million troops), has embarked on its way to Burgia. The ETA to the front is 3 days. Each Cruhadi trooper is armed with: 1 AK-74, 1 Colt .45, Kevlar vest, and a combat knife.
The Breakdown of the 1st Legion

1st Division
150,000 Immortals (Elite Troops)
500 Tanks
2nd Division
100,000 Cruhad Regulars
3rd Division
100,000 Cruhadi Regulars
4th Division
100,000 Cruhadi Regulars
5th Division
100,000 Cruhadi Regulars
6th Division
50,000 Tank Grenadiers
3,000 Tanks
7th Division
50,000 Tank Grenadiers
3,000 Tanks
8th Division
10,000 Artillery Support Crew
500 Artillery Pieces
9th Division
140,000
MP, Guards, Misc. Support
10th Division
150,000 Support Personell
This army will be under the command of Rahman Al-Sa'ud. 4 Star General.

Juthopian national security and defense has progressed well since the declaration of war by Burgia. The Moose Island training base has equipped hundreds of thousands of reservists, and the Army Corps of Engineers has prepared total war-grade defenses on the border where tourists once crossed frequently. The Battleships "Hunted Wumpus", "Gilgamesh", and "Smyrna" have been deployed to patrol the vicinity of Bugberg, and the Juthopian Homeland Fleet of destroyers and cruisers are ensuring the safe passage of trade from Delta City and the Marklundian ports. The 1st through 4th Army Battalions are fortifying the new defenses on the border, while the other seven battalions are on call, and the 1st through 4th Cavalry Forces are moving toward the border. The spectacular Juthopian Air Force are scouting the Burgian territory in preparation for bombardment.

This message submission has been approved by Brian McDonell, Defense Minister to the Premier of the Principality of Juthopia.

I like it, but I have noticed that Sokodia is not on the map.

In response to the military escalation that has taken place in the last three days, Wyczestr has doubled the funding for its nuclear weapons program (in game). Our airforce is also on heightened alert. Wyczestr's airspace remains secure thanks to a state of the art anti-aircraft system. While we urge all nations of Menotomy to refrain from any rash, destabilizing actions, we especially condemn the declaration of war by Cruhad against Burgia. Cruhad, of course, has a right to confront what it sees as agression in Menotomy. But we must examine the following facts.

1. Burgia declared war on Marklund and Juthopia before being threatened itself, because it considered those nations a threat to regional security (this is not so different from Cruhad's position). Burgia is the agressor in the immediate sense, but if we look at the larger picture it is far from clear cut.
2. Burgia is fighting alone: Since Burgia declared war on Marklund and Juthopia, not one of Burgia's allies - Ossipee, Eschaton, nor my nation wishes to be the instigator of all out warfare. However, Cruhad has threatened Burgia not only with containment, but with invasion, as the Cruhadi army is currently marching across the Empire of Olmatrar. Cruhad's entry into the war is not defensive, but opportunistic. It hopes to share in the spoils of war by attacking a nation that is already facing two determined enemies.

What Cruhad must realize is this: Wyczestr will not tolerate a foreign occupation of Burgia. Should Juthopian, Marklundian, or Cruhadi troops ever attempt to occupy Burgia's God-given land, Wyczestr will declare war on all three aforementioned nations and will stop at nothing to assure that our ally's integrity is maintained.

In response to Wyczestr's statement, the High Clerical Council of Cruhad has issued this response: "The only reason Cruhad has entered this war, is to support two nations who, for no legitimate reason, were attacked. Neither Juthopia, or Marklund threatened war. Their sanctions were not even directed at Burgia. If the Eschaton's 23 CEO's felt it neccessary to go to war to alleviate those sanctions, why didn't they? In fact it is Burgia's attack which is "opportunistic".
If it were Wyczestr who was attacked for no legitimate reason Cruhad would have aided. Our country is trying to keep peace in Menotomy, and letting warmongers run loose without trying to stop them is the worst thing that could be done.

Signed,
The 9 High Clerics

None of the non-rp nations are there unless they were there when the map was first made.

Because Burgia chose to declare war against Marklund and Juthopia we have no choice but to honor our agreement with the two nations and declare limited war on Burgia. Hastania sees Burgia's actions as irrational and overly agressive. We would like peace and stress that we do not want to become involved in this conflict or any other conflict, but we refuse to weasel out of our promises. Let this be a firm and friendly sugestion to the nation of Burgia that they should back down for everyone's sake.
Furthermore we will not tolerate any naval attack from Wyzester. Their excuse for the naval blocade on our northern shiping lanes is that they will sink any ship that contains Nuclear material. This is a blatent lie since Hastania has all the nuclear material it needs right here at home. Since we dont sell Weapons of mass destruction unlike some other nations Wyzester has alied itself with, all they are blocading is books and food. We find this action appaling and are willing to protect our citizens from Wyzester's tyrany.

In the interests of preserving independence and the right to sovereignty in these troubled times, especially in the face of such arrogant and self-righteous nations such as Juthopia, Marklund and even our formerly vaunted UN Delegate, Hastania, the Eschaton is shipping materials into Conostonia to create an entire armoured divison as well as two infantry divisions and twenty heavy artillary pieces. We will not let other nations dictate the Conostonian way of life in the same way they sought to dictate the Eschatonic way of life.
<signed> The Twenty-three CEOs of the Eschaton

There has been a shift in power within the Eschaton. Manfred von Weimenoff's company, Quantillion Casinos, has been rated as the fourth largest coperate body in the Eschaton, and as such has been demoted to the rank of Fourth Seat. Heinrich Knecht of Gottblitz Corp., the Eschaton's primary arms manufacturers, has taken his place as Third Seat, thanks to the huge new subsidies and government purchases that have resulted from greater defense spending. This bodes well for the military power of the Eschaton, as the Arms Industry gains greater political influence in Eschatonic government.

Troops are holding ground inside of Debiana, insuring the people's right to rule, and defending the still newborn nation's right to sovreignity. The second that the troops are requested to leave, they shall do so.

In other news, the Region of Constontonia, another fledgeling nation has also requested help in the form of military materiels and weapons. Convoys are en route through Pecunian, Oltramar, Captain Jack's Trousers, the Eschaton, (while being subject to perfectly legal searches), and Debiana in order to reach their destination. The convoys are heavily guarded, but will only attack if provoked.

((I took the liberty of asking Oltramar, and the non-RP nations, well, they shouldn't really count, should they? If enough people state objections to beileving that neutral nations allow troops through their territory, I will retract my statement, or get assurances from these non-RPers.))

Any chance encounter with the Cruhadi troops will be just that. A chance encounter, and as long as the Cruhadi troops don't cause any mischeif, then there should be no problem in transport.

Ok i'm calling for another summit about how to fight a war tommorow (thursday) at our usual time 4pm. thanks all. I'm backing Will Butler's suggestion of using conventional risk rules and just converting all the values into manpower. If everyone agrees to this then we can spend the summit figuring out everyone's army size. Otherwise maybe we can stay on task this time and figure out something else we can all agree on.

Heh. Staying "on task"? Please.

I should be there. I definitely think that population should be a major factor, but also the industries, say if Arms Dealing is a major industry, etc., budget spent, (It's come up about three times in the past few days, Military every time for me!), etc.

how much money you spend on making weapons has no effect on how many soldiers you have in the field, you realize that right? it also has no effect on the quality, ability or technology of those weapons. for all we know they could be clubs.

However the amount of money you spend allows you to purchase higher quality equipment and weapons, as well as aquiring better training for your troops. The money spent on weapons is directly related to the power of the army, so I think budget is essential. Without spending money on the most state of the art guns a nation's army will /be/ relegated to the use of clubs, so budget cannot be considered as anything but a crucial factor.

theres a difference between defense spending and arms manufacturing. i was merely commenting on arms manufacturing. i agree that defense spending should be an important factor

Still I also think that should be a reasonably important factor as well. Where is the government going to buy their weapons anyway? It'd have to be from the Arms Manufacturing sector. That rating would show just how large a body of manufacturies a government can draw upon. The only problem, though, is that it doesn't take into account public sector arms manufacturing which countries like Marklund undoubtably have seeing as they're highly socialist. I wonder if there is a way to access all the game fluff values...

Population, military spending, education, and military-related industry should all be factors. I think someone could whip up an algorithm or something...

We assure the Ossipean convoy will proceed without incident, as Cruhad holds no ill will toward Little Ossipee. Also if Conistonia wanted weapons I see no reason they shouldn't get them.

-Rahman Al-Sa'ud. 4 Star General of Cruhad.

((I'll most likely be at the summit))

I'll more likely than not be around for the summit. my SN is insanekaosx.

So, after an hour of arguement, fighting, hysterical weeping, and several deaths, we have managed to work out a reasonable decision.

Ok. If you have compulsury Military service, multiply your population by 2%.

If not, multiply by 1%.

Take that number, and add 7 for every super weapon, (WMDs, Orbitals, that sort of thing).

Then, if "Military, Defence, or Education" are one of the three that get the most funding, (have to be ON the country description), then multiply your army by 1.25. If it isn't mentioned, then don't do anything. If it is "Neglected", or "recieves barely any funding", something of that sort, multiply your army size by .75.

God, sounds like a tax return, doesn't it?

Example.

My population = 431 million.
431,000,000 *.02 (compulsury military) = 8,620,000

8,620,000 + (700,000*2) (orbital weaponry) = 10,020,000

10,020,000 + (700,000*2) (Weapons of Mass destruction) = 11,420,000

11,420,000 *1.25 (defense in positive bracket) = 14,275,000

I have an army of 14,275,000 troops.
Everyone else?

To make it reasonable, Ris-rules-wise, we have decided that every 100,000 troops = one Risk army. 500,000 = one Risk cavalry and 1,000,000 = one Risk cannon.

This means that my army turns out to be 143 armies(everyone rounds up).

I have 6,150,000 troops. That's 62 risk pieces.

Curse that dentist's appointment! I'd have liked to push for economy to be a beneficial factor (of course, having a 'frightening' economy) since it means you have more money to place in your military budget. But no matter.

The Corperate Forces stand 9,8600,000 strong, meaning I have 99 armies, rounding to the nearest army.

I have 6,337,500 troops, which amounts to 64 risk pieces.

(this is only if Exponents agrees, which I think he should)

Arriving by private plane somewhere near the Snifflis/Exponents border, a number of men in dark jumpsuits, armed with semi-automatic pistols, assault rifles and bearing large suitcases and padded crates exit and gain their bearings. Soon they are through a hole in Exponents's security, riding in a fast, mobile jeep. They meet with men in strange religious garb, who seem to drink naught but lemonade. Words are exchanged... then money... then the padded crates which are handled with extreme care. There is but one marking on these crates: a red pentagon sigil.

My army: 117 Risk Guys. I'll break it down for you, it'd be appreciated if everyone broke down their army so we all know exactly how it comes out to the number it is.

Population: 431 million
Military Service: Compulsory (since nation's conception)
Superweapons: 1 Orbital weapons system
Other factors: education important, defense not mentioned

431,000,000 x .02 = 8,640,000 + 700,000 = 9,340,000 x 1.25 = 11,675,000

rounded up thats and divided by 100,000 thats 117 risk guys

you guys don't have to go into so much detail just give us the numbers behind the main one please. also this system is not the end all be all, if there are major gripes with it we can always change it.

Just wondering... Could you rp wise impose compulsory military service, say install a draft, even if you didn't choose it during the nations conception? This would practically double my military.

(this is only if Exponents agrees, which I think he should)

Arriving by private plane somewhere near the Snifflis/Exponents border, a number of men in dark jumpsuits, armed with semi-automatic pistols, assault rifles and bearing large suitcases and padded crates exit and gain their bearings. Soon they are through a hole in Exponents's security, riding in a fast, mobile jeep. They meet with men in strange religious garb, who seem to drink naught but lemonade. Words are exchanged... then money... then the padded crates which are handled with extreme care. There is but one marking on these crates: a red pentagon sigil.

The crates quickly disappear underground via unmarked trucks and the lemonade drinking fanatics disappear. The mut kutis that have changed hand soon are wired through a series of banks leaving them untraceble. Nothing is heard from this crime synidicate. Which is odd.

The news hounds ask the media advisor why there has been a sudden drop in lemonade related stickups and thirsty people ambushed while trying to purchase some of the sweet/sour yellow fluid. The media advisor cites improved security, education and welfare. More proof that the "Jammin'" always knows how to help his people.

Just wondering... Could you rp wise impose compulsory military service, say install a draft, even if you didn't choose it during the nations conception? This would practically double my military.Yes Cruhad, compulsory service IS very advantageous, which is why so many countries did it, IN THEIR ISSUES. You have to wait till the issue comes up. That would defeat the whole advantage the counries that have been gearing towards war have, and negating all actual realism.

You made the decision, live with it, or it's all the luck of the draw. That's just the way it is.

PS - Marklund - if they had issues with the war system, they should have showed up at the summit.

PPS - This is Ossipee. Damn these forums.

the summit was rather short notice and didn't give much flexibility for people who had prior commitments. this thing is supposed to be fun and its not exactly fun when your voice is ignored.

i think a nation should be allowed to institute the draft at any time but it should cause some major morale problems for that army such a -1 to any dice rolled by armies that are mostly conscripts and the nation should have to RP the dissent problems they now have

also, what about more troops coming in? i assumed our starting armies would be what we got and i'm wondering if you all intend to have some sort of steady gain. it would seem to me that the only way to get more soldiers would be conscript more of the population. once again that should cause unrest. if an inordinate amount of people are conscripted there should be other problems caused as well. such as wyczestr's 18-35. i hope you all realize that accouts for nearly half of a nations workforce.

Hastania has a total of 11,475,000 troops If we resign from the UN
10,600,000 if we don't

notice: the WMD multiplyer was *7 (6 orbitals + 1 Nuclear/bioweapon)

The UN Baned Nukes/bio weapons so anyone who is in it should not put them into the multiplyer unless they wish to leave the UN

um arbs, that resolution didn't pass. nukes are allowed in member nation

((Yes, Ian, this game IS supposed to be fun. But there are RULES. We chose the rules at an advertised summit where everyone that could make it, was invited. The majority of those present, including three nations from your side of this conflict, were present. Did I hear any moaning then? Everyone thought that it was a perfectly good plan, but now Cruhad has decided t change it around. Why do you think I was doing out the troop numbers right there? That was to show the natural advantage that I would have. If people wanted to change the rules then, they should have responded. But if a majority doesn't like the rules, then fine, we'll just have another summit when it's "convenient" for everyone.

Here's a proposal.

If a draft is to be instituted in every nation, that defeats the whole purpose of chosing compulsory Military service. That was the choice that people had, and they decided to not do it, so it's their problem. If a draft is to be instituted, not only should morale go down, but the troops should SLOWLY increase, and the increase shouldn't start until this supposed "Risk" game actually starts, because why call a draft until it's a dire circumstance? What nation would conscript it's people on a moments notice without a very pressing matter, say an invading force. Then, the compulsory military people still have their advantage which they chose, but the other nations can SLOWLY level the playing fields.

I still say that the ISSUES should dictate every choice that a nation does, but hey. That's me.

Let's vote on it.

All in favor of keeping the natural advantage that compulsory military has over volunteer military, say Aye.

All in favor over the slow escalation of troops in volunteer nations, say Nai.

All in favor of the sudden and drastic, (might I also say VERY unfair), leveling of playing fields, say "Scaredycat"

: P

Also, if Wyczestr did an expanded conscription, then more power to him. If his economy is still alive and well, then it doesn't really matter, does it?


And yes, this IS Ossipee.))

Military Update - Five hundred thousand troops are still entrenched inside of Debiana. The convoy is en route to Constontonia,(however you spell it....), with no sign of Cruhadi mischeif.... yet. The convoy is protected by 1,000,000, (10 Risk guys), Ossipean regulars, armed with top of the line weapons right from Ossipean factories. Each soldier has one Colt M4A1s with grenade launcher attachments. All of the troops have a backup Desert Eagle pistol, several fragmentation grenades, and a large K-Bar knife. They are wearing state of the art Kevlar, called "spider-silk" because of it's lightness and it's breathability. They mostly ride in armored Bradley Fast Attack Vehichles, and Armored Personell Transports. Some stand guard over the actual wares, but most of the vehicles are only protected by their driver, and usually a second guard.

Economic Update -
The Arms manufacturing business is flourishing under these conditions.

The people of Ossipee - The second that the guns are off the assembily line, they are tested, then given to new zealous recruits who have either been conscripted, or joined the second that they heard that they would get a chance to serve their nation in such an honorable and prestegious way. These recruits are put through a rigerous training program, indoctrinated in the ways of war. By the end of boot camp, they would be proud to die for their nation, all they'd need is the Emperor's declaration of war and all 14,275,000 of them would charge off to the nearest offending nation and raze it to the ground.((*cough*Cruhad*Cough*)) Luckly, their commanders have a tight grip over their soldiers to keep them in check and happy.

Ian -

Elimination of Bio Weapons

A resolution to slash worldwide military spending.

Category: Global Disarmament Strength: Significant Proposed by: Lovinia
Description: Biological weapons, if used during warfare or covertly, represent an enormous risk to the well-being of not just the target of said weapons, but potentially everyone on the planet. It is therefore imperative that nations eliminate these heinous weapons.

Votes For: 13023

Votes Against: 5449

Implemented: Sat May 31 2003

first of all, that resolution is powerless. it merely says that it is imperitive for nations to disarm, not that they have to disarm. also if we pretend tht the resolution does actually say nations need to disarm, it only talks about bio weapons and not about chemical weapons. therefore it can be assumed that UN nations still have chem weapons if that issue ever came up and they went with it.

i've made a map which has 5 provinces for each nation. the lines were drawn more or less randomly. the capitals are still on there for reference sake. i encourage everybody to edit this because like i said the lines are random and theres probably more logical ways of dividing it up. but hopefully this is a start to a much better map.

the riskmap file has been moved to my map post on page 4 of this forum

((Sorry I didn't know it was an issue besides at start up. I vote to keep the system the way it is.))

Cruhad would like to express its concern at Little Ossipee's current hostilities towards us. We have never threatened the Empire and have not needed to. We wish to inquire the reason for this unwarranted dislike.

Barry Al-Dar Cruhad Foreign Minister

Edit: Map is well done as usual :)

OOC - hey sorry i missed the summit.
I calculate that I have 9.6 million troops if i keep my current conscription levels. I don't mean to gripe but Wyczestr did get the highest military ranking in the UN report the other week. So i calculated that if i raise conscription by one percent i get 14.6 million. i know if i make an exception for myself this kind of ruins it for everyone else, so i'll see how everyone responds to this i guess. Also - if i have defense and education in the top three list, does that mean i get to multiply it twice? just trying to get on the same page.

wyczestr is 121

I think today's UN census report helps everyone figure out where they stand.

Marklund has made a very good point so i dont have to limit anything Hastania has 115 risk pieces and more are being recruited each day

Lemonade stickups isn't so much a nation as it is a criminal sydnicate, that strongly worships the powerful flavor of lemonade, and happens to be currently working in the Protectorate of Exponents, but beware whereever there are lemonade stands we will conquer!

Our strategies are simple! we will lure you in with our wonderfully delightful yellow beverage of sweet.sour nature thats origin is of the citrus variety. We will then proceed to rob you and force you to drink inordinate amounts of lemon juice. Be frightened New Menotomy, for what lays at the horizon will come far too soon for non believers.

What if one has more than one of the three agendas (defense, military, education) on their description? is the bonus still the same?

Marklund has made a very good point so i dont have to limit anything Hastania has 115 risk pieces and more are being recruited each day

While you are under no legal restriction by the UN to deduct nuclear weapons from your arsenal, I am shocked your nation would even considering using them in any fashion. I am appalled that our UN delegate would resort to using WMD's against its neighbors. I would like declare my nation's belief that Hastania has proven itself unfit for its place as UN delegate. I am absolutely stunned, and call for all nations of New Menotomy to denouce the usage of all WMD's. I strongly urge all nations to disarm to limit the deaths of millions if not billions of innocents from the warfare that is fought in our region.

In "Jammin's" Name
- Duran Chase, Foreign Minister of the Protectorate of Exponents.

I propose using the UN Census as either an advantage/detractor. The people at the top of the list should get more of an advantage, because they are spending more money.

It seems that while approxomately half way through Oltramar, every single vehicle has run out of gas. The troops are defending their trucks, and waiting to be re-supplied from the base camp inside of Ossipee.

The Ossipean emperor regrets any inconvenience this may cause the Oltramarian people, and promise to move the tankers as fast as possible to get the convoy on the move again. All remaining reserves are siphoned off and put into the FAVs and the APTs in case of any conflict.

OOC:

Ok, big rant coming up.

We decided to stack bonuses, so that if defense and education are both priorities, you multiply by 1.5. Also, doing a draft during the war unless you are Wyczestr is stupid and immoral because it's a cheap way to get troops, and, frankly, most of you don't give a damn about what the people in the nation think about the draft, you just want to win.

The bonus factor for WMDs and orbitals are just ways of getting more troops. They don't represent actually using orbital weapons or nuclear weapons, it just shows that you put that money into defense, and you get some troops out of it.

Also, if you have a steady supply of more troops, this war will never end. We have over 10 cannons' worth in many nations, and fighting it out in Risk would take three days. If we impose a roll limit on each nation to ensure that everyone gets a turn, however, it will be much easier for the nations who got war declared on, like Juthopia and Marklund.

Lastly, I'm going to Cape Cod next week, leaving on Saturday. My troops will be under Marklund's control starting Saturday, until I return.

Ossipean troop placement, just for people's knowledge
(Each number = Risk guys)

PS - troop movement. Ground only, Risk type. Anyone with me? I say no Air drops of massive amounts of troops into the middle of hostile territory. This doesn't apply to non-conventional military people, (AKA Civillians, etc.), just military transports. Personal planes are allowed for transport of goods, or small numbers of people, but not large military contingents.

Anyone with me?

Noticing the halt within it's borders, a small convoy is sent out to the Ossippian troops. It consists maibnly of large trucks carrying fuel. A jeep moves forward from the convoy and offers the services to the detachment.

Noticing the halt within it's borders, a small convoy is sent out to the Ossippian troops. It consists maibnly of large trucks carrying fuel. A jeep moves forward from the convoy and offers the services to the detachment.
The troops refuse assistance, mainly because their trucks take a certain type of feul that only the Little Ossipean government can supply. They thank the tankers profusely, and pay them for their troubles.

About the stacking of bonuses, the demands of Education and Defense are 'juggled' meaning they receive equal attention (along with something unrelated) but not outstanding attention. Does that count as a 'positive bracket'? If that wasn't discussed maybe it should just be a multiplier of 1.25 to represent the combined efforts in Education and Defense, resulting in the effect of one outstanding focus of funding.

The tankers head back, but two lightly armed jeeps stay behind to keep an eye on things, just to make sure nothing happens.



I have a TINY army! 15,000,000 if i did my math right thats a cannon and a cavalry. i feel so weak. *cry* :D :headbang:

The tankers head back, but two lightly armed jeeps stay behind to keep an eye on things, just to make sure nothing happens.



I have a TINY army! 15,000,000 if i did my math right thats a cannon and a cavalry. i feel so weak. *cry* :D :headbang:
Yep. I have 2/3s of your army out of gas in hte eastern part of your nation...

That's what alliances are for, man. Notice how no one is messing with Debiana or Constontonia? They got on a side, and started dealing.

Wyczestr has deployed its armies for defense of the homeland. The distribution of our divisions is as shown. We reaffirm, however, that Wyczestr is not currently at war with any power in Menotomy.

Oh the ranking places the Eschaton above Marklund in military size, but I'll not ask for more troops in order to represent the military material's I've shipped (the latter two in secret) to Conostonia, Burgia and Wyzcstr and the funding I've given to terrorist groups in Debiana and Exponents to use against Marklund. We'll need to make rules for the effect of terrorist attacks on the ranks of troops, since the intended targets are reserve troops. Maybe a die roll for each terrorist group, and the removal of the number on the dice of troops (-1 to the roll in the case of Marklund due to their effective police force) to represents the combined effect of casualties and the loss of morale? Also, as to my redistributed funds, perhaps Burgia, Wyzcstr and Conostonia can have two additional armies each. That would raise my effective army size to 105 plus terrorists (if their untraceable, so far, and as effective as I've posted), so lets call that 120 which would make the UN census accurate. Any objections/alternatives?

Objection: I think that terrorism is just rp without a basis on the game statistics, so I don't think that terrorism should be a factor UNLESS it is during an occupation, against the occupiers.

Objection: I think that terrorism is just rp without a basis on the game statistics, so I don't think that terrorism should be a factor UNLESS it is during an occupation, against the occupiers.
Terrorism is a fact of life. It happens every day. Why should we, if we are trying to make this a semi-realisitic game, exclude unconventional warfare?

It's an arbitrary player-decided statistic that will just complicate the game for everyone. Plus, it would just give an advantage to the fundamentalist nations in the region.

A coup has been staged overnight in the Holy Republic of Cruhad! Apparently a group of armed men entered the High Cleric's council chambers and forced them to abdicate. In the wake of this Barry Al-Dar and Rahman Al'Saud stepped and proclaimed themselves leaders of the new government. They claimed that they had masterminded the whole plot to rid the country from "the yoke of tyranny."

A portion of the Cruhadi 1st Legion, which most had thought was marching across Oltramar, had actually stayed home and, in a brilliant devised scheme, captured most government installations with little to no bloodshed.

The government proposed will have 2 consuls and a senate, similiar to ancient Rome's republic. Public elections will be held "at the earliest possible date." In the meantime Al-Dar and Al'Saud will be interim consuls.

Public reaction has been enthusiastic as most of the common citizenry held no love towards the High Clerics who were often aloof, and uncaring. Also Al-Dar and Al'Saud are the two most popular men in the country, representing the brains and the strength that all Cruhadis admire.

As of now the High Clerics are heading to an "undisclosed location"

The new government's first proclamation was to rescind the unpopular declaration of war against Burgia, stating: "We will not have Cruhadi boys die in other countries' war. We urge Burgia to forgive us as a nation and to see us as a new people." Orders have been given to the remaining troops from the First Legion in Oltramar to return home.

as a unanamus declaration of the parlament of burgia, we will remove all active duty troops from the military. we will withdrav all troops from any threatening place. we will withdraw all declarations of war, sanction, and embargoes. in return, we wish that all nations in menotomy will follow our lead, and stop this impending war. we hearby announce that declaration 314 of the parlament of burgia to be null and void.

-declaration 354 of the parlament of burgia.
-bill sponcered by the chairman on the comitty for forien affairs, bogenberg.

The very basis of my nation's warfare is the funding of terrorist groups in order to avoid direct implication. There is a whole post about creating a terrorist sect, and not all are religious fundamentalists. Often they are criminals who are doing it for money, something the Eschaton doles out liberally to its allies. The key is limiting the effectiveness of terrorist attacks to reasonable size. Terrorist attacks are limited by their hit and run nature. You can't occupy an area with terrorists, and the funding required is disproportionate to the actual damage you can do. The advantage is being able to choose targets and being able to operate in secret. I think terrorism should be incorperated in game mechanics. And if we work on it together it won't be arbitrary. I've made sure to work through other nations so it's a group effort, not just me going off on my own thing. I think others will agree. I've spoken with quite a few people who want to explore terrorist sects, and it would be unfair to them to deny them a hand in regional events. Terrorism is, in my opinion, a legitimate game action that should be taken into account in the upcoming conflict, especially considering the targets.

In response to Burgia's armistice, Juthopia relieves all active duty personnel from the border, and withdraws its navy from Burgian waters until further notice. Juthopian troops are on alert, though, in case other conflict arises.

Brian McDonell
Defense Minister to the Premier of the Principality of Juthopia

Marklund has sent a fruit basket of peace to Burgia.

((I agree that the Eschaton should be allowed to use terrorist attacks. Its been on his agenda since day 1 and all real world factors should be used if possible in this game. I also agree that a nation should be more or less susceptable based on its level of crime.

Of course, there is no war at the moment so its not exactly a concern (unless someone new declares war of course).))

((If someone else declares war then I will mobilise my army and show everyone my troop placements. In the mean time I think we should work on the map. Its not exactly balanced, as Will pointed out to me last night some nations have safe provinces whereas other nations have only borders. This is an advantage for moving troops and for protecting borders. I think either every nation should have one such province or none.))

The region breathes easier now that war has been averted. The Eschaton, spoken for by its chosen rulers, the Twenty-three, rejoices in the evasion of conflict and the cessation of hostilites.
In the interests of averting further close brushes with destruction the like of which has been unseen in the region thusfar the Eschaton has come to a resolution to be put before our fellow nations:
We, the Holy Empire, wish to hold a grand council of Menotomy's nations, with representatives from each, to put forth new regional laws which we shall all abide by, in order to unify us and grow closer to peace.
Let each nation send a representative for each ten million citizens they possess, allowing for but one for those nations with too few citizens.
Let each representative have one vote to cast in support or in opposition of each resolution.
Let each nation propose one resolution, and let it be put to the vote if but one other nation agrees to support it.
Let each resolution that is passed be followed faithfully by all nations who choose to attend the council, and let the violation of the resolutions be punished with all due potency.
Let the resolutions dictate no nation's internal workings or method of governing.
Let the resolutions manage international/intraregional affairs, such as rules of war, economic sanctions, humanitarian aid and other such issues as involve the cooperation and interaction of nations.

Long last this peace, and long last our prosperity!
<signed> The Twenty-three Chief Executive Officers of the Eschaton

OOC: Acording to the stacking system i have 138 armies. By the way is any one else geting tyred of echeton's arguments that are just blatendly them trying to make it better for themseves and worse for others? They have apsolutely no intrest in making thing "fair" they just want to win. And hey im all for them having terrorists in their arsenal. Also Exponents my coment about nukes was ooc but however i dont really care about the position UN deligate. The UN is a joke anyways....