NationStates Jolt Archive

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I posted it on the other OOC thread as well. Might as well do this one too. Links to information on most of my military systems:

Aircraft (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68940)
Naval Systems (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68948)
Ground/Infantry Systems (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75689)
Munitions (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75693)
Components (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79051)
R & D Thread (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79281)

Also Clan Smoke Jaguar Fact File: All You Need to Know (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=88866) has information on my military forces and organization.



I think we should all post at least links to our equipment specs and military strength here, so we have a single place to check for that. We should also look at the locations of our respective nations, as that would be important for supply and reinforcement issues.

I'm in Indonesia, located on Borneo and several surrounding islands.

Reading the Wars of Expansion (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90433&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40) RP, plus some other RPs, I have an idea: setup a proper time line. Not only involve years and months, but also days.

We could have Day 1 of the invasion (Barbarosean forces/etc. lands) as June 27, 2016 (which already passed), and day 2 as June 28th. There could be as many as 7-14 NS days in one RL day in this invasion, or just 4-6 NS days. That way we wouldn't get confused by the timeline.

Good idea?

EDIT: New map is:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/omz123/omzmap.jpg

Mainly the northern part of my country are hills and mountains, with the rest of the west being plains and prairies. The southeast (where Honjaksgrad is at) is also mainly plains, but more wet.

I'm gonna *Bookmark* this baby.

Hey omz, are my spec ops guys gonna meet up with saphfire at where ever you guys are headed? If not lets do something with em. And on another note, myself and my VERY close Ally, the Empire of ThirdEye are willing to send support to you, just say the word and we can get in more troops.


"Hahaha! Buddy, you got yourself a dea-" the President of Nukes4You was cut off by an intern of the Board, who just walked in and handed a manilla folder to the Philcass President and Head of the Board. The President studied the papers inside the folder for a seemingly long time. The President then looked up at his colleagues.

"Well, Sniper Country is also very concerned about our supply routes. his fleets are currently focused on the port of Hon- Hon- whatever, and they're worried that enemy forces might strike out at our supply lines, especially betwixt Sniper Country and his fleets. Any ideas, gentlemen- and lady?"

"Well, we're not currently using the Second Kamov Fleet, are we?" asked the Head of Corley Motors- the only female onthe Board.



Okay, thats pretty cheap, you hear about our plans to possibly hit your supply lines in a way that there was no way you could have heard, and then you all of the sudden 'get concerned' about your supply lines? Wtf?

Hey omz, are my spec ops guys gonna meet up with saphfire at where ever you guys are headed? If not lets do something with em. And on another note, myself and my VERY close Ally, the Empire of ThirdEye are willing to send support to you, just say the word and we can get in more troops.

Well the truth is, your spec ops guys doesn't know about Sapphire from CSJ :wink: However, your specops will mostly likely be headed to a place near Honjaksgrad or Vansara, a city north of Honjaksgrad.

About the supply chain: it is finally the time that the leaders of the enemy forces realized that 5 million troops needs a lot of ammo, and food :P

Got it, and Got it.

About the supply chain: it is finally the time that the leaders of the enemy forces realized that 5 million troops needs a lot of ammo, and food :P

Indeed - parts of my navy can be broken off the main fleet and used to attack convoys, if nobody else had a plan for dealing with that.

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Now, on a few side-notes, stealth aircraft, I presume, are just a waste of time anymore, are they not?
Frankly, my airforce doesn't really care about stealth. Stealth is overrated these days. On the other side, there are already both military-developed and civilian-developed tech that can detect stealthy aircraft. It's not that hard, all modern technology (just a bit unique).

And are the F/A-22Cs invincible?
No, not invincible. There *are* ways of downing it --- just like any other aircraft.

Just two very serious questions I need to be answered before I post my next humiliating reply.
Nothing humiliating. Just a game :P
However, to think about it, I will also accept some defeat.

Seriously, don't have a stroke when one guy goes apeshit and shoots up a bunch of your troops.

If the Spectres are firing "innacurately," I wouldn't worry about one sergeant with an M240 :roll:

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I have no clue when OC will get online, if he can. No clue if AMF will even be participating. Aside from that, Barbarosea is out of town and won't be home til tomorrow afternoon. So for the time being, I am fending this all on my own without any support.
By any chance, we could freeze this war for a while, until Barbarosea gets back and OC "reports back". On the contrast, right now Remiesia is the only support of mine who is fighting... Well, at least yet.

Er, Omz222, are you ever on MSN?

My apologies. Despite me being sick the past 2-3 days, it is not by habit of being on MSN sometimes. I will try and stay on from now, however.

We're pausing it?

Dammit! It was just getting good :(

We're pausing it?

Dammit! It was just getting good :(
SC and I just talked on MSN, no we are not going to pause it, there will be some great plans coming from both sides :twisted:

MAPS RELATED TO OPERATION EVEREST

Operation Everest Forces Movements Map (http://members.lycos.co.uk/omz123/everest.gif)
Map of Omz222 (http://members.lycos.co.uk/omz123/omzmap.jpg)

Feel free to post links to other maps, then I will edit this.

[Yes, I know these maps are crappy, but I ain't got no 1337 photoshop skillz :P ]

well gents, let's get to it then :twisted:

too bad we don't have a "noooooooooo!" emoticon, because I'd be using one as the 173rd gets bombed into hamburger meat. :x

Man, did you really need to shut down RMI for this? I was about to order 6,000 Powells!

So all the stuff is going down in Honjaksgrad, huh?

Yeah the 173rd Airborne Brigade just got ass-raped in the city, as a matter of fact :tantrum:

I won't forget about you though dude. :wink:

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Omzian Forces Losses

Air:
5 F/A-22Cs

Ground:
Various Patriot SAM units, Hawk SAM units (Reserves).

Sea:
2 ASW Frigates, Barank Lung, Fourty Clock

[To be edited]

REMIESIAN LOSSES - RUNNING TOTAL

173rd Airborne:
22 M8 Ridgeways
20 Strykers
1,949 paratroopers KIA
88 left behind - 26 pinned down, the rest severely wounded

34th Marine Division:
5 AH-1Z Cobras

27th Infantry
367 killed, 1034 wounded
15 M1A3 Abrams
7 Ocelot Tank Destroyers
12 Bradleys

6th Cavalry
92 infantry killed, 258 wounded
2 M1A3 Abrams
4 Ocelot TDs
7 Bradleys
2 AH-64Ds

4th Armored:
None

Air Force
None

Navy
2 Oliver Hazard Perry Frigates
1 Spruance Destroyer (crippled and scuttled)
3 Ticonderoga Cruisers damaged

Deploying the 15th Mechanized Infantry Division to Omz - they'll arrive tomorrow. Also sending over more air force units - they arrive in 2 RL hours.

See the main thread for strength.

I was at OCs place last night, and I helped him type up all that. About the millions of troops, we know what we are doing, so don't worry about it. On the note of guarding supply lines...

Think about it. We have troops overseas fighting. We don't have a makeshift landing area on land yet, so obviously supplies are going to need to be delivered through the seas. Military analysts, yes, they exist in the SCAf, are going to probably think

"Hey, it would be smart of the enemy to attack our supply routes. Maybe it would be wise for us to protect them!"

Or maybe that is my feeble imagination. So, we call up OC and ask for support on that, since our fleets are spread wide, and they say they can help. So they do. It's not that hard.

Now, on a few side-notes, stealth aircraft, I presume, are just a waste of time anymore, are they not? And are the F/A-22Cs invincible? Just two very serious questions I need to be answered before I post my next humiliating reply.

And are you sure Norton isn't Rambo? Pumping rounds into the OC guys without anyone noticing him or shooting at him or anything? Good thing for body armor.
I find this rather funny. You see, I find more problems with your losses than Omzs. Take this for example:

Several of the Bearcats broke away, while two still kept forward. The other twenty made a break. They punched ECM and flares, and pressed immediately on the afterburners. They dove down to Sea-Skimming level, about 200AGL. They flew towards the 3rd Fleet, pressing hard to go faster. Nav officers read that AMRAAMs were tracking hard and fast to both the ECM and the flares, all let out by the Bearcats. The two Bearcats that continued on their route found the F/A-22Cs on their radar, and immediately armed all existing AIM-7E2s and AIM-120Cs located on the birds- six on each. The jets got radar lock on the enemy fighters, and launched all of their missiles, twelve in all, at the enemy F/A-22Cs. The pilots then immediately punched out, not ready to meet their demise quite yet. However, the demise came all too soon. Several missiles from both the Omzian and Remiesian aircraft slammed into the jets as they began their ejection. At least the missiles were away.

The other twenty aircraft, however, still fully armed and ready to fight, continued their low-level flight towards the 3rd Fleet.

This is completely unacceptable. Many of the missiles fired were much better than AMRAAMs, and having all of the aircraft escape safely is a major godmod. The evasion tactics shouldn't have been anywhere near that successful and at least half of those fighters should have been lost. If you're going to pull that, I might as well say that my fighters (F/A-22Cs included) are completely immune to all your missiles.




On another note: Shoulder-fired SAMs aren't very good against Commanches. One of the the most important features for that particular unit is exceptional IR masking that makes a missile lock rather unlikely.

Well, although I do see a little problem with his losses, I'm not the person who likes picking, so I'll let that go.

Still, the AAMs I use are much more resistant to ECM than the AMRAAM (much like the AMRAAM vs. the Russian AA-12).

But also, let's not forget that this RP will not turn in an ignorefest.

To be fair, I was flying Cobras, not Comanches - he launched the SAMs at those.

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Yes, now that I re-read it, it does look very bad...

If wanted, I can go back and post more losses, or whatever one suggests...

Admittedly, that is verily my bad...
No hard feelings, everyone makes mistakes.

Feel free to adjust the losses and effects. If CSJ could also point out my mistakes in the RP (I would appreciate it), I will also adjust mine in accordance.

Yes, now that I re-read it, it does look very bad...

If wanted, I can go back and post more losses, or whatever one suggests...

Admittedly, that is verily my bad...
It's a bit of my bad too. After a long day of work (and dealing with worse-than-average customers), I can get a bit testy.
I'll try to keep things in mind and be a little more polite about it in the future. And yes, I did recognize that those were AH-1s, but SC didn't at the time and it was pointed out later.

Let's transfer the question of F-15s and F-16s operating off carriers to this thread.

As far as I'm aware, neither aircraft was ever considered for naval duty, and a catapult launch can really stress an airframe that isn't designed for it - not to mention the constant shock of slamming the plane down on the deck and having it yanked to a halt every time it lands.

Let's transfer the question of F-15s and F-16s operating off carriers to this thread.

As far as I'm aware, neither aircraft was ever considered for naval duty, and a catapult launch can really stress an airframe that isn't designed for it - not to mention the constant shock of slamming the plane down on the deck and having it yanked to a halt every time it lands.
As an example of the land-based F-111 was proposed to be the naval fighter which would replace the F-4 instead of the F-14, it later turns didn't partically because that it was "just too heavy, fragile, and complex" for naval operations.

Source: Tom Clancy's book "Carrier".

Yeah, the F-111 weighs a lot.

I think even the S-3 had some initial problems with the avionics getting screwed up after carrier landings, and it was designed to work at sea.

So you can't just throw on new landing gear and expect to be flying off a carrier - there's more to it than that, as Clancy mentioned.

Yeah, the F-111 weighs a lot.

I think even the S-3 had some initial problems with the avionics getting screwed up after carrier landings, and it was designed to work at sea.

So you can't just throw on new landing gear and expect to be flying off a carrier - there's more to it than that, as Clancy mentioned.
Some people also take the Russian Flanker case as example: the Su-33, which can land on a Russian carrier, is just a modified Su-27 with forward canard wings, arrestor hooks, and reinforced landing gears. But in that case, the Russian Kuznetsov is more like a CTOL one I believe, rather than one with steam catapult.

Well, the F-16 was going to be a carrier based aircraft, but there's something about a single engine plane over water that the Navy didn't like.

Also, the F-15 only weighs a few thousand pounds more than the F-14, so I don't think that a few thousand pounds really makes much difference.



So you can't just throw on new landing gear and expect to be flying off a carrier - there's more to it than that, as Clancy mentioned.

Even when modifications were designed for it so it could do that? :roll:

Yes, the Su-27K (Su-33) is a CTOL unit that relies on a higher thrust to weight ratio and a ski jump. Tthere's a little more to it than just strengthening the landing gear. They had to modify some other systems and components as well.

Tthere's a little more to it than just strengthening the landing gear.

*sigh*

Also, the F-15 only weighs a few thousand pounds more than the F-14, so I don't think that a few thousand pounds really makes much difference.

Also, the F-15 is not designed in any way shape or form to be operated from an aircraft carrier :roll:

Tthere's a little more to it than just strengthening the landing gear.

*sigh*

I'm not talking about strengthening existing landing gear, I'm talking about a whole different set of gear.

Also, if a 155,000 pound C-130 can take off and land on a carrier (http://www.geocities.com/heartland/3917/herc.html), then I shouldn't think a 81,000 pound F-15 couldn't manage the same.

Fine, whatever you say :roll:

I look forward to blasting them out of the sky with my JSFs and Super Hornets anyway.

Fine, whatever you say :roll:


Don't give me that. It's well documented that a plane the size of a C-130, carrying 25,000 pounds of cargo can land on a carrier with no arresting hook.

I've seen the goddamn video, thank you very much, and I'm rolling my virtual eyes because you're not going to admit that you're totally wrong about this F-15/F-16 thing.

I've seen the goddamn video, thank you very much, and I'm rolling my virtual eyes because you're not going to admit that you're totally wrong about this F-15/F-16 thing.

You seriously don't believe me about the F-16, eh? The US Navy was conducting tests to see if the F-16 would make a suitable carrier based aircraft. There was landing gear made that would make it possible for an F-16 to land on a carirer, but due to the single engine design (over water), the Navy decided to nix the idea.

If weight is your issue, then let me say this: there are much heavier planes than the F-14 through 16 that fly off carriers.

And mind your composure.

Fine, whatever you say :roll:


Don't give me that. It's well documented that a plane the size of a C-130, carrying 25,000 pounds of cargo can land on a carrier with no arresting hook.
Size isn't the only factor.
The C-130 has a much lower stall speed, and can thus make a much gentler landing. It's also structurally tougher than the F-15
The unassisted landing was possible due to the low stall speed and the better ground maneuverability, which fighters can't match.

Fine, whatever you say :roll:


Don't give me that. It's well documented that a plane the size of a C-130, carrying 25,000 pounds of cargo can land on a carrier with no arresting hook.
Size isn't the only factor.
The C-130 has a much lower stall speed, and can thus make a much gentler landing. It's also structurally tougher than the F-15
The unassisted landing was possible due to the low stall speed and the better ground maneuverability, which fighters can't match.

How many more times do we have to shoot this idea down?

And you said it yourself - the Navy GAVE UP on the idea that the F-16 was a suitable carrier-based plane.

We're saying over and over again that it's not just about the damn landing gear, and you've said the same damn thing in your posts!

The more you bring up the fact that they were tested and rejected, the more holes you shoot in your own argument.

But that's it - I've had enough of this. I'm not going to waste my time any further.

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Alright guy, calm the hell down. Remember, this is a fantasy RP game.

Granted, the F-15's current suspension would probably not be able to handle landing on a carrier that well, but it's no freaking reason to go shitting your pants.

If it will make y'all happier, I'll change the damn aircraft that I'm bringing, OK? I'll debate changing plane mechanics some other time. Take some ritalin or something, you're starting to scare me.

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Yeah, that reminds me...

WHERE ARE MY PILLS, MAN!?

LOL...I mean shit, what's so out of this world about those types of planes landing on carriers anyway? It's not like I'm trying to have F-22's take off em or something....

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Don't ask me. Frankly, I wouldn't really cre if you had F-15s that were refitted to go on carriers, even if you were my enemy. I mean, I refitted SuperHornets and SuperTomcats to take off from land, ah who-diddly.

Yeah, who fucking cares, nobody wins a war strictly with aircraft.

The only time I'd pitch a bitch about what kind of planes are on your carrier is if you're taking off and landing fucking Stratofortresses.

Yeah, that reminds me...

WHERE ARE MY PILLS, MAN!?

LOL...I mean shit, what's so out of this world about those types of planes landing on carriers anyway? It's not like I'm trying to have F-22's take off em or something....

OOC: Reading along...so confused...remembering why I went to future tech... :P

Hmm, never expected this discussion go 1 page :shock:

Anyways, point made, conflict resolved. Let's not turn this to a bitchfest.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

I'm on AIM but I'll shoot over an e-mail :P

Yeah, who f--- cares, nobody wins a war strictly with aircraft.

But its been admited that wars are won and lost by air control...and SC, you dont modify anythign to land or take off from the ground...unless you have a seaplane or a flying boat or a float plane

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Yeah, who f--- cares, nobody wins a war strictly with aircraft.

But its been admited that wars are won and lost by air control...and SC, you dont modify anythign to land or take off from the ground...unless you have a seaplane or a flying boat or a float plane
Air dominance and superiority is a cruical thing.

Also, I think the Canadians did made a few modifications to allow its F/A-18s to operate from land, aside from other mods. But the Marine F/A-18s is a different matter I think. Hmm...

Remiesia:

AIM: honeybunmaster

SN entered....negative contact :P

Well, since my internet went down last night and I couldn't sleep, I decided to pull this together. This is a list of everything that's in the first wave of reinforcements that CSJ is giving, and also lists units that will be in the second wave. It's long, so I'm breaking it into multiple posts.


The amphibious force that was conducting Red Beach has been strengthened with additional units, and is heading towards Omz222. It consists of the following ground units:

III Corps (The Teeth of Justice)
-5th Armored Division (Long Fangs)
-14th Armored Division (Spearhead)
-23rd Light Infantry Division (The Striking Cats)
-3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment (Wolf Trap)
-Associated support units

IV Corps (The Blitzkrieg)
-11th Light Armored Division (Swift Retribution)
-46th Light Armored Division (Swift Strikers)
-3rd Light Mechanized Infantry Division (The Maulers)
-18th Light Mechanized Infantry Division (Spirit Crushers)
-4th Armored Cavalry Regiment (Tigermen)
-Associated Support Units

Additionally, the 2nd Airmobile Division (Skyriders) from II Corps, and the 1st Infantry Division (The Dark Prowlers) from I Corps are also present, along with associated support elements. All units are cut down, with aviation elements, Corps artillery brigades, and unnecessary support personnel left behind.

Total Units:
580 Iron Cheetah Mk.2 MBT
300 Timberwolf MBT
1192 Stingray Mk.2SJ Light Tank
56 LAV-105
56 LAV-AG
288 LAV-AT
160 LOSAT II
116 EFOGM
116 Ontos II
464 Mist Lynx IFV
332 Mist Lynx CFV
76 Mist Lynx FISTV
1044 LAV-IV IFV
164 LAV-IV CFV
152 LAV-FISTV
232 Rooikat 105
116 Spähpanzer Luchs
72 LAV-R
126 M270A1 MLRS
36 M142 HIMARS
360 M2012 Cavalier SPG
54 G5 FH
90 LW105 FH
216 M121 SPM
288 LAV-M
100 M120 Heavy Mortar
24 Skymer SAM
96 Grendel SAM
96 Vespa SAM
162 Towed HUMRAAM
198 CLAWS
114 Mist Lynx Linebacker
144 LAV-AD
216 Avenger
9672 Mechanized Infantrymen (in IFVs)
7272 Infantry (HID)
9990 Light Infantry (LID & AMD)
1246 Force Recon (includes 120 Snipers)
696 Snipers (Division & ACR)



The total naval presence with this force is:
5 Amphibous Groups
4 Helicopter Assault Ship Squadrons
12 Landing Ship Squadrons
1 Assault Carrier Battle Group
2 Carrier Battle Groups
4 Light Carrier Battle Groups
2 Bombardment Squadrons
2 Cruiser Squadrons
4 Destroyer Squadrons
1 FFG Squadron
1 Frigate Squadron
4 LCS Squadrons
2 Mine Countermeasures Squadrons
9 Submarine Squadrons

Total Units:
20 Raptor LHD
10 Samurai LHA
25 San Antonio LPD
10 Harper’s Ferry LSD
25 Whidbey Island LSD
4 Removal LPH
12 Firebrand LPH
36 Ryoken LST
36 Newport LST
1 Arbalon CVN
2 Nicholas Kerensky CVN
4 Franklin Osis CVL
4 Toryu BBG
4 Firestorm Arsenal Ship
8 Hiragi CAG
22 Carrack CG
43 Sparrowhawk DDG
15 Sniper DD
13 Prowler FFG
4 Oliver Hazard Perry FFG
16 Hunter FF
4 Knox FF
24 Tarantula LCS
2 MCS-12 Inchon
8 MCM-1 Avenger
8 MHC-51 Osprey
6 Stymphalian SSGN (Kodachi)
6 Stymphalian SSGN (Firebolt)
12 Dolphin II SSN
11 Moray II SSN
12 Interdictor II SSG (Firebolt)
6 Interdictor II SSG (Thunderbolt)
12 Conqueror SSK
72 F-14F Tomcat II
276 F-35B JSF
120 F-35C JSF
16 EF-35B
16 EF-35C
8 E-35W
72 A-12C Avenger II
120 MV-67
293 CH-53E Super Stallion
318 MH-60R Strikehawk
846 MH-60S Knighthawk
76 SH-2G Super Seasprite
56 UH-1Y Iroquois
54 RAH-66A Commanche (from cavalry regiments, replacing 54 UH-1Ys)
264 AH-1Z Ultra Cobra


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There's also a follow-on force that consists of just about every other landing ship CSJ has, and the reserve amphibious corps. This unit has just been launched, and has not received an escort yet.
XXV Corps (Bulldogs)
-58th Light Armored Division (Pit Bulls)
-61st Light Mechanized Infantry Division (Growlers)
-78th Light Infantry Division (Little Bastards)
-25th Armored Cavalry Regiment (Lockjaw Regiment)

8 Raptor LHD
4 Samurai LHA
10 San Antonio LPD
4 Harper’s Ferry LSD
10 Whidbey Island LSD
2 Removal LPH
6 Firebrand LPH

Additional ground forces being deployed by air or sea amount to the following:

II Corps (The Cloud Rangers)
-6th Airborne Infantry Division (Stormriders)*
-19th Light Infantry Division (The Leaping Jaguar)*
-36th Mechanized Infantry Division (Red Thunder)
-2nd Cavalry Regiment (Gallant Steeds)*

X Corps (Dreamweavers)
-53rd Mechanized Airborne Infantry Division (Ghost Hunters)
-54th Mechanized Airborne Infantry Division (Restless Spirits)
-55th Airborne Infantry Division (Midnight Assault)
-10th Cavalry Regiment (Night Runners)*

XVII Corps (City Stalkers)
-68th Urban Combat Division (Doghouse)
-127th Urban Combat Division (Alley Cats)
-49th Armored Division (Bulldozers)
-72nd Mechanized Infantry Division (Steamrollers)
-17th Armored Cavalry Regiment (Blockbusters)

*Carried by air:
82nd MAD from III Corps (352 C-5B in 11 Air Mobility Wings)
19th LID from II Corps (64 C-5B & 32 C-17 in 3 Air Mobility Wings)
6th AID from II Corps (64 C-5B & 64 C-17 in 4 Air Mobility Wings)
2nd Cavalry Regiment from II Corps (128 C-17 in 4 Air Mobility Wings)
10th Cavalry Regiment from IX Corps (128 C-17 in 4 Air Mobility Wings)

The other 8 Divisions, and the corps level support, are being transported by sea. The aviation and corps-level units for the units that are in the amphibious groups are also being carried with these forces.

Total force:
754 Iron Cheetah Mk.II MBT
348 Merkava IVSJ MBT
258 Timberwolf MBT
849 Kit Fox LT
420 LOSAT II
174 EFOGM
174 Ontos II
812 Mist Lynx IFV
248 Mist Lynx CFV
126 Mist Lynx FISTV
696 Nova Cat IFV
82 Nova Cat CFV
76 Nova Cat FISTV
1044 Stormcrow IFV
373 Stormcrow CFV
138 Stormcrow FISTV
348 Rooikat 105
174 Spähpanzer Luchs
432 M270A1 MLRS
396 M142 HIMARS
488 M2012 Cavalier
18 G5
288 LW155
144 LW105
180 Stormcrow SPM
354 M121 SPM
240 M120 Heavy Mortar
24 Skymer SAM
96 Grendel SAM
144 Vespa SAM
216 Towed HUMRAAM
294 CLAWS
192 Mist Lynx Linebacker
366 Avenger
360 AH-93C Firebird
438 AH-93A Firemoth
93 RAH-66A Commanche
220 AH-6J Defender
1034 UH-60L Blackhawk
384 OH-58D Kiowa Warrior
123 EH-60 Quick Fix
96 C-47F ICH
16,368 mechanized infantrymen (6696 airborne)
15,984 light infantrymen (AID & LID)
1869 Force Recon (180 snipers)
864 Snipers (Division & ACR)



Escorts for the naval convoy include 4 Nicholas Kerensky CNBGs, 3 Franklin Osis CVLBGs, and most available escort squadrons. Most of the submarines are doing one of two things: either they’re gathering for a coordinated attack on enemy fleets, or are heading out to harass supply convoys. A large number of fast attack craft (corvettes and smaller) are being transferred to Omz222 for littoral operations. I don't feel like listing everything.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Combat air units being deployed:

6th Air Force
-2 STOVL Fighter Wing
-2 Multirole Fighter Wing

11th Air Force
-4 Bomber Wing

17th Air Force
-4 Composite Air Wing
-3 Composite Strike Wing

28th Air Force
-4 Composite Air Wing
-2 Composite Strike Wing
-1 Rescue Wing

34th Air Force
-5 Fighter Wing

42nd Air Force
-1 STOVL Fighter Wing
-3 Multirole Fighter Wing



Support air units being deployed

48th Air Force
-4 Air Control Wings
-1 Air Command Wing

51st Air Force
-6 Airborne Jamming Wings

55th Air Force
-4 Reconnaissance Wings
-1 Electronic Warfare Wing

56th Air Force
-4 Air Refueling Wings

38th Air Force
-2 UAV Wing
-1 UCAV Wing



Transport air units being deployed:

2nd Air Force
-2 Airlift Wing
-2 Air Refueling Wing

7th Air Force
-2 Airlift Wing
-2 Air Refueling Wing

8th Air Force
-2 Airlift Wing
-2 Air Refueling Wing

14th Air Force
-2 Airlift Wing
-2 Air Refueling Wing

21st Air Force
-1 Airlift Wing
-1 Air Refueling Wing
-1 Rescue Wing

69th Air Force
-6 Air Mobility Wing

70th Air Force
-6 Air Mobility Wing

71st Air Force
-6 Air Mobility Wing

72nd Air Force
-6 Air Mobility Wing

73rd Air Force
-6 Air Mobility Wing


Total Units:
480 F/A-22C Raptor
384 F-23C Black Widow II
672 F-35A JSF
288 F-35B JSF
360 A-114 Gunslinger
44 MB-52I Megafortress
88 B-1B Lancer
33 B-1C Lancer
11 B-2A Spirit
56 Predator AUAV
44 Predator B UCAV
72 Predator C UCAV
40 E-767
16 E-3E Sentry
40 E-8C JSTARS
18 RC-135V Rivet Joint
18 RC-135U Combat Sentry
16 EC-130J Commando Solo II
36 EC-130H Compass Call
24 EC-130E ABCCC
12 EC-130E Rivet Rider
64 U-2 Dragon Lady
152 EF-35A
24 EF-35B
24 Global Hawk UAV
24 Dark Star UAV
192 Predator UAV
480 C-5B Galaxy
480 C-17 Globemaster III
560 C-130J-30 Hercules II
128 C-130H Hercules
360 KC-10A Extender
480 KC-767
96 KC-135R
12 HC-130P
16 HH-53J
36 HH-60G


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Additional units ready to deploy amount to:
I Corps (Arcadian Devils)
-7th Armored Division (The Blue Demons)
-4th Mechanized Infantry Division (The Devil’s Mist)
-17th Mechanized Infantry Division (Unholy Vengeance)
-1st Armored Cavalry Regiment (The Scarlet Scythes)

V Corps (The Razor’s Edge)
12th Armored Division (Chaos Unleashed)
38th Armored Division (Carnage Incarnate)
33rd Mechanized Infantry Division (The Devastators)
5th Armored Cavalry Regiment (The Exterminators)

VII Corps (A Strong Foundation)
-8th Mechanized Infantry Division (The Bottom Line)
-9th Infantry Division (The Lionhearts)
-28th Infantry Division (Iron Will)
-37th Infantry Division (Eden’s Hope)
-7th Armored Cavalry Regiment (The Inquisitors)

VIII Corps (Might Before Metal)
-15th Infantry Division (Creeping Death)
-32nd Infantry Division (Stalking Death)
-42nd Infantry Division (The Stalkers)
-8th Cavalry Regiment (The Reivers)

IX Corps (The Mistweavers)
-36th Airborne Division (The Golden Wings)
-48th Airmobile Division (The Golden Talons)
-16th Light Infantry Division (The Furies)
-20th Mechanized Airborne Division (The Wolf’s Bane)
-9th Cavalry Regiment (Serpent’s Squires)

XI Corps (Feline Fury)
-102nd Armored Division (Alley Cats)
-104th Armored Division (The Cats’ Meow)
-76th Light Infantry Division (Mountain Lions)
-11th Armored Cavalry Regiment (Hello Kitty)


4 Fighter Wings
18 Multirole Fighter Wings
2 Stealth Fighter Wings
2 Attack Wings
4 Bomber Wings
2 Air Control Wings
4 Airborne Jamming Wings
2 Reconnaissance Wings
5 Airlift Wings
15 Air Mobility Wings
6 Air Refueling Wings
8 Rescue Wings

OOC: Very nice, thank you. I'll decide to pull off something similar to this later...

Wow.

*feels suddenly unimportant with only 4 divisions in-country :shock:*

Jeez, I love how you godmodders...erm...guys claim to already be engaging my fleets, even though we're still about a day away. :roll:

Next time wait for ME to tell you when I'm getting close enough to engage.

Damn, I forgot that none of my ships have engines in them.

Damn, I forgot that none of my ships have engines in them.

Erm....what the heck dude, you gotta stop with the sarcasm. Unless you're doing 150 knotts, don't expect to run into us yet.

At any rate, my fleets are still far enough away. Also, the SC, OC, and Barb fleets are in the same general direction that we will be arriving, which is south east if I've read the IC thread right.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Jeez, I love how you godmodders...erm...guys claim to already be engaging my fleets, even though we're still about a day away. :roll:

Next time wait for ME to tell you when I'm getting close enough to engage.
I kind of thought that. The carrier that launched my attack is still a few weeks away itself, and coming in from the southwest. Consider that at 20 knots (37 km/h), it would take 46 hours for my fleet to cover the distance from my position to yours, which I stated as being a full 1700 km, so I don't think there'd be any problem with my strike.

Okay, to clear up some things.

The Exocet missile we are using is not the one you people are thinking about. I liked the name, so dubbed it on my missile. The missile we are using is much like a mix of the Yakhont and Sunburn, except with the capability of M3 sea skimming. They use OTHT, with an invisible seeker- given chances through testing have found this missile to be traced by the seeker to be around 3%. They are loaded with NTO explosives- have fun.

The B-52Hs are dropping MK15 and MK22 Cluster Bombs, weilding M40 and M38 submunitions, 2020 submunitions contained in each of the bombs. Each bomber is dropping approximately fifty of these onto enemy buildup positions. I expect all of them to be shot down, as well as the F-15Es. As you can see, I don't spend a ton of time researching my military knowledge, and don't claim to be an expert. The one with the least amount of knowledge on military equipment in this game loses, you see.

Also, with the seemingly small amount of forces we have on the ground, it seems that the invasion will soon be thwarted. AMF's fleet probably going to crap as we speak, along with a massive counter-attack ready to go down against Honjaksgrad, I am not sure how much longer we can hold. The only thing, it seems, that we really have going for us is the protection along the supply lines, guarded by the massive Omni Conglomerates fleet.
Well, for the Exocet, that's an example of something that should have been mentioned before hand. Look back to the second post on the thread. I suggested that we all give the info on our equipment, but I'm the only one who ever did.
Still, if it's air launched by anything other than a Soviet heavy bomber with 1-3 missiles total, it's going to be a light weapon with a relatively weak warhead. This is especially true when you consider that you are equipping 4 on each aircraft, and 4 Yakhont missiles would weigh 26,460 lbs (Moskits would weigh 1.5 times that), or more than even an FB-111 could carry, and those still have only have a 200 kg (441 lb) warhead. Your missiles would have to be half that weight to be carried by carrier aircraft in the number they are, and then, only the F/A-18E could do it. That reduction would ammount to a warhead of little more than about 100 kg (220 lbs), which is only 2/3 that of the real Exocet.


As for the invasion, I'd prefer not to have it beaten back so quickly, and frankly, you shouldn't be that bad off. No sane officer would initiate a landing like this without a large number of heavy units ready to deploy as soon as an enemy port is captured, and these would be with the supply ships that Omni Conglomerates would be protecting. Also, I'm sure that some OC and SC ships and aircraft will be close enough to help out the AMF fleet, and you can forget about any further intervention from me. That strike was pretty much all I had :roll:

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Jeez, I love how you godmodders...erm...guys claim to already be engaging my fleets, even though we're still about a day away. :roll:

Next time wait for ME to tell you when I'm getting close enough to engage.
OOC: Hmm, very sorry about that. Still, say it is at 20 knots for all of them, 37km X 24 hours = 888km, not too far away for my long-range strike aircraft to engage. However, we'll be sure to work something out in the future, to get everyone on the line,.

Also, SC:

Any info on this "NTO explosives"? Also as said, it would be best if everyone post their weapons' specs.

Bascially most of my weapons are CSJ's, with some bought from United Elias (EA-160 aka F/A-160, EA-220). I can give the links, if desired.
So if my weapons used is new to you --- check in CSJ's thread. Almost all munitions are from there.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Wow. I stay offline for one night and I am rather confused. Granted that happens fairly easily, especially with bright colors, but I still am with out a clue as to the condition of my troops. Could someone wire me a telegram filling me in. Maybe I should just get DSL that would make things easier.

BTW, we need to limit how many turns ya'll are getting. Some of you are getting several turns in by the time we can simply log on. All of the attackers are pretty busy in RL, so try not to take advantage of that.

Also, Sniper, get on AIM.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

ALSO,

at this time, I would appreciate it if everyone stated exactly where they are on Omz's map by either description or by drawing it. I'm so damn confused right now as to where everyone is.

Here's what Sniper drew out for me.

http://invisionfree.com/forums/WMNK_Coalition/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=3432

1 is Sniper's fleet, 2 is Barbarosea's. 3 is the invading forces, 4 is Rem's ground forces, and 5 is Omz's forces. 6 is Rem's navy, and 7 is CSJ's navy.

The green dot behind the black line is me, and I am still quite far away, hence the line.

Is this accurate?

May I step in to help Omz222?

No, this is a closed 4 VS 4 RP.

I'm not even on the map yet :P
I have some aircraft heading in from my nation, but they'd still be several hours out. The fleets are all about a week away, and most are devoted to protecting the convoys, though 1 Nicholas Kerensky carrier group is available to engage and is only about a day or 2 away. There are two Franklin Osis ones as well, but they don't have much in the way of aerial refueling assets, so they're still too far out to lend any help, at least for 3 or 4 days.

I do try to give time for reaction to my attacks before posting any more, and will try to give a chance to respond before attacks are made. Of course, there wasn't much chance for any response to the two attacks I've made so far.
For the first, there's nothing you can do about antisatellite missiles, and that task force was listed as being there for some time.
Similarly, the strike on your fleet was done in such away that the chances of detecting it were virtually nil. Even if you had an E-2C or radar picket over 100 km out from the main fleet, which is rather absurd, you still wouldn't have seen anything.

I would, however, like to see some response to my attacks. It's not nice to ignore them. Besides, it would be a nice little side battle if someone figured out the role of my little task force and tried to eliminate it.

No, this is a closed 4 VS 4 RP.

Well, can I send army guys running around, and claim myself in the war?

Or I should just send Spy Helicopters...

No, this is a closed 4 VS 4 RP.

Well, can I send army guys running around, and claim myself in the war?

Or I should just send Spy Helicopters...
Try sending aid (food, munitions, etc). That's the extent of what's allowed from outside parties.

Well, I'd like to know how you can fire at a fleet that's

1. In a vicious storm
2. Has many ships with ECM's.
3. A long ass way away still.

BTW, let me know if you've attacked any of my satellites. In doing so, a full nuclear retalliation is in order. Sorry, but that's how Dreadfire runs things....

Well, I'd like to know how you can fire at a fleet that's

1. In a vicious storm
2. Has many ships with ECM's.
3. A long ass way away still.

BTW, let me know if you've attacked any of my satellites. In doing so, a full nuclear retalliation is in order. Sorry, but that's how Dreadfire runs things....
1. A storm doesn't mean all that much, and the general location and heading of your fleet are already known. The fact that you turned in the storm might help a little, but I gave my missiles some leeway in the range department.
2. ECM isn't worth squat. My missiles aren't radar guided, and this was done without any radar assistance. If it was, ECM would do nothing more than tell me where to fire the missiles at.
3. I stated the distance from my ship as being 1700 km (that's over 900nm). Heck, my F-35s won't even be able to make it halfway back to the carrier without an aerial refueling. This was really pushing it. And one day out is only a little under 900 km.

I never stated exactly which satellites were engaged, but that information about retaliation would have been useful, as it's rather clear that we have heavy ASAT capabilities. You can choose to have your satellites engaged or not, but we have excellent defenses against ballistic missiles, we'd retaliate in kind.

If they aren't radar guided, then do tell what they are.

If they aren't radar guided, then do tell what they are.
It's listed in the R&D thread, which I linked on the first page, but they're inertially guided with IIR terminal, and a two-way data link. Radar guidance would guarantee that passive sensors would detect them as soon as they switched the terminal seeker on.

I never stated exactly which satellites were engaged, but that information about retaliation would have been useful, as it's rather clear that we have heavy ASAT capabilities. You can choose to have your satellites engaged or not, but we have excellent defenses against ballistic missiles, we'd retaliate in kind.

Nuclear retalliation is always AMF policy when it comes to our satellites.

As for ballistic missile defense: we too have advanced anti-ballistic missile capabilities, and also have a very large stockpile of thermonuclear weapons. And remember, not every nuke needs to fly through the air.

I never stated exactly which satellites were engaged, but that information about retaliation would have been useful, as it's rather clear that we have heavy ASAT capabilities. You can choose to have your satellites engaged or not, but we have excellent defenses against ballistic missiles, we'd retaliate in kind.
Nuclear retalliation is always AMF policy when it comes to our satellites.

As for ballistic missile defense: we too have advanced anti-ballistic missile capabilities, and also have a very large stockpile of thermonuclear weapons. And remember, not every nuke need to fly through the air.
True, but "full nuclear retaliation" usually means either bombers or ICBMs/SLBMs, neither of which would be very useful against either of us.
Smuggling a nuke in would also be rather difficult, as we're in a state of war, and we always had tight security to begin with.

Either way, it's probably best if your satellites aren't engaged. But in the future, you should always make sure that everyone's clear on policies like that, as they're not common, so we have no reason to assume it.

Oh yeah, it's also a mute point if you have no satellites covering the transit route between CSJ and Omz222. That's the only thing we're clearing.

Also, if your missiles are "sea skimming", are they able to maneuver over the thrashing waves of the storm? Also, Phalanx guns should be able to target and destroy them as they close in. Also, you don't know the exactly where each ship is in the convoy.

BTW, you never mentioned what missiles you fired.

Also, if your missiles are "sea skimming", are they able to maneuver over the thrashing waves of the storm? Also, Phalanx guns should be able to target and destroy them as they close in. Also, you don't know the exactly where each ship is in the convoy.
The missiles are sea skimming, even 20m is considered that. These missiles would probably be flying at a height of 7m or so, so that they're still above the wave tops.
My missiles are small stealth antishipping missiles with passive radars, meaning that they'll be very close by the time they're detected, if at all, and the small radar on the Phalanx would have extreme difficulty engaging them. They also conduct evasive maneuvers when engaged. Phalanx guns are known to have trouble with sea-skimmers, and evasive maneuvers also cause great problems for them (this is part of why the Moskit and Yakhont missiles are so dangerous). The other thing is that with the speed of the missiles and the effective range of Phalanx guns, you'd only be able to engage 2 missiles per gun max. That would leave at least 6 to come through and hit each cruiser.
You are correct about the fact that I don't know the exact location of the ships I want to hit, and a few (maybe 2 or 3, 4 would be pushing it) might manage to avoid being hit due to the confusion, in which case some of the missiles would go after the Spruance destroyers instead (secondary target). The missiles have IIR seekers, which search for and home in on specific target profiles. There's also engagement parameters that would prevent too many from going after the same ship.

----------Nicholas Kerensky Class Carrier Yoshi Kobagawa----------
With the launch of the strike force only a few minutes off, munitions were being loaded, and flight checks were being performed on all of the 48 aircraft. The 36 F-35C and 12 A-12C aircraft aboard the carrier had been chosen to provide the combat debut for the new Shinma antishipping missile, which had been delivered by COD just a few hours earlier. Each of the A-12s would be carrying 4 of the "light" AGM-271A missiles, while the F-35s would each carry a pair of heavier AGM-271B units, for a total of 120 missiles that would be sent to the AMF fleet.
Omz222's General also made a very big deal about this when Colonel Cline mentioned them on the plane (3rd page)

Also, if your missiles are "sea skimming", are they able to maneuver over the thrashing waves of the storm? Also, Phalanx guns should be able to target and destroy them as they close in. Also, you don't know the exactly where each ship is in the convoy.

BTW, you never mentioned what missiles you fired.
Phalanxes are proven to be not so effective even against old French Exocet missiles, not mentioning Harpoon missiles from the USN theirselves. Maybe some long-range ones can do it, but certainly not short-range weapons like CIWS/etc.

About the vicious storm... Heard of all-weather? It's been done since the '60s with the A-6 Intruder. Not all aircraft are all-weather, but some are.

Phalanxes are proven to be not so effective even against old French Exocet missiles, not mentioning Harpoon missiles from the USN theirselves. Maybe some long-range ones can do it, but certainly not short-range weapons like CIWS/etc.

Got links? I've been reading up on CIWS, and I'm having a hard time believing that.

Also CSJ, you launched those missiles at 250km. I read your munitions page, and your own missiles cannot travel that far, even when your other planes went 50 km further. Also, this whole "you can't detect me at all" shit isn't very fair. You do realize that once you get close enough to launch missiles, I can scramble planes right? Oh...I forgot...we can't detect you....

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Just to throw my .2 in:

As I recall, forcing somebody inot a position where they cannot defend and have to take casualties is a godmod, I don't care how good your weapons are.

Remember this is freeform RP, and every action you do has to be able to be stopped to some degreee or else it's a godmod.

There was an incident where the Oliver Hazard Perry class frigate USS Stark was attacked by a pair of Iraqi Exocet missiles, and failed to intercept either before they struck (though one missile failed to detonate). The incident was officially blamed on a defective system, but the captain insisted that it was in perfect working condition, and was later forced to retire. The incident is part of the reason the US is looking into completely replacing the Phalanx with newer systems like the Oerlikon Millenium Gun and RAM.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa134.html
http://usresolve.org/uss-stark-ffg31.php
http://navysite.de/ffg/FFG31.HTM

I know I saw other studies referring to the ineffectiveness of the Phalanx, but I don't recall where they are, and don't have the time to go around looking for them.

does this mean that you are going to wage war against someone?

Just to throw my .2 in:

As I recall, forcing somebody inot a position where they cannot defend and have to take casualties is a godmod, I don't care how good your weapons are.

Remember this is freeform RP, and every action you do has to be able to be stopped to some degreee or else it's a godmod.
There's always a way to defend and reduce casualties, but the whole point is to put the enemy into a situation where they cannot completely avoid casualties without godmodding. If this wasn't the case, than a war could go on with neither side ever suffering casualties because the other always gave a way to completely avoid them, and I can think of several things he can do or say that will reduce the effectiveness of my missiles. He just hasn't mentioned them yet, and I'm under no obligation to state what they are. Since this is getting annoying though, I will give a hint:
The missiles will be searching for targets, and not all of them will find them at the same time. Phalanx can some down, but don't go overboard, and two missiles at the same time would easily be too much.
Also, a large ship might take 3-4 hits to sink. Less than that would only cripple it.

And yes, tech is a major factor. Consider that when the defensive systems are several decades behind the missiles that they're up against, they're not going to be as effective. If he'd been using newer systems, it wouldn't be so bad, and I'm the only player who's playing with most of his cards on the table from the start.

And so far, the defenders, who have better tech, seem have been a little more willing to accept losses than the attackers, who have much larger forces. :roll:

If the Phalanx was so crappy, I doubt the USN would use it...

This is the same as how the USN people were stupid enough to not put guns on their planes in Vietnam until the pilots complained how the F-4s was beaten up almost everytime by MiG-21s in close engagements, just because the F-4s doesn't have guns and they can't fire missiles at a range like that.

Same as how the USN deployed the Super Hornet, many F-14 pilots too, complained about its inferior performance in range, speed, and other issues.

EDIT:
Also CSJ, you launched those missiles at 250km. I read your munitions page, and your own missiles cannot travel that far, even when your other planes went 50 km further. Also, this whole "you can't detect me at all" shit isn't very fair. You do realize that once you get close enough to launch missiles, I can scramble planes right? Oh...I forgot...we can't detect you....
1. Shinmas at R&D Thread: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79281&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20 .
Also, regarding "you can't detect me", of course . To play by the rules, my ships can't really detect/engage Sniper Country's Windcutters and Gustos as RPed before either. It is not unfair, IMO it is good tactics and use of technology (not technology itself 100% this case, the use of them). Also better tech. You could still scramble them IMO, but just not at a high chance of success since they came immediately, and I doubt your planes could engage other planes that are at rooftop altitudes (also as showed in the air engagement SC and I had, that's why I can't shoot more missiles at the SC planes since they flew so low).
In contrast, of course, your Sentinels are much more capable and stronge than my soldiers. That may as well justify it.

Phalanxes are proven to be not so effective even against old French Exocet missiles, not mentioning Harpoon missiles from the USN theirselves. Maybe some long-range ones can do it, but certainly not short-range weapons like CIWS/etc.

Got links? I've been reading up on CIWS, and I'm having a hard time believing that.

Also CSJ, you launched those missiles at 250km. I read your munitions page, and your own missiles cannot travel that far, even when your other planes went 50 km further. Also, this whole "you can't detect me at all" #### isn't very fair. You do realize that once you get close enough to launch missiles, I can scramble planes right? Oh...I forgot...we can't detect you....
I didn't say you couldn't detect me. I said the chances were slim to none. There's a difference. However, if you're using just SPY-1 radars and E-2C aircraft, no you won't. They don't have the means to detect stealth aircraft at 200-250 km out. Even adding F-14s is not going to do much unless you're flying CAP 200 km out from the carrier.
If you look it up, the A-12 was designed to get within a few dozen km of enemy ships without being detected.
Finally, once the missiles are noticed and the attack is reported, it won't take too long to figure out where it came from. Though there's little chance of a retaliatory strike with the other threats, someone could always have submarines nearby . . .

These aren't on the munitions page. I have the Thunderbolts and Firebolts there, but those are very different weapons. The ones I used are, as Omz222 pointed out, on the R&D thread. And if you note, the "A" variant carried by the A-12s has a range of 220km. The "B" variant carried by the F-35s has a range of 280km. There's plenty of space there.

Also a note, influenced by Barbarosea's post:

Remember, this is a war where logistics and tactics will be played. This will consist of different strikes, different tactics, supply routes, etc. Not "I send 3 million troops here".

I could send 300,000 reserve troops to retake Honjaksgrad. But I choose not to, and instead I sent 30,000. Why? Balance. And it would be long before the troops can be capable to fight, and it will be hard to get food to all.

Please remember balance in terms of numbers. About tech, as long as they are achievable by this period, should be o.k.

Edit: nevermind. as something was already posted, I'll let it go
However, in the future, these missiles will never attack battleships, as their warheads are insufficient. I'll let it go due to that sub

OOC: If you are not comfortable with the numbers (even though in a regular attack the Soviets will most likely fire 200-250 missiles in one attack, as I read)

But that's not from 1 attack run either. :roll:


I suppose we could have a deal to reduce the numbers.

Hmm... Maybe 44 missiles? how about that?

You fucking-A right you better. Seriously, how do you expect to still have missiles <period> after shooting 88 of em all at once? And how many planes are in this raid anyways?
Posting here because this is where it goes.

Soviet tactics called for Tu-22M "Backfire" bombers grouped in regiments of 44, with many attacks being made by multiple regiments. With each aircraft armed with 2 AS-4 missiles (or 1 for very deep strikes), a 3 regiment attack could put 264 missiles into the air, and these are huge AS-4s.

For "not having any missiles left" try looking at actual production numbers. The US Navy has nearly 6000 Harpoon missiles. Similarly, over 2000 Tomahawks are in service (half of those produced). If you want a decent source for the numbers of various munitions in US stockpiles, try looking here (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/smart.htm). It's got some rather revealing information.

So...you mean to tell me they carry 6,000 on their ships? :roll:

Exactly, I was refering to the missile stockpile on his carriers, use your head. Launching that many missiles is absurd, I don't care who you are.

He probably misunderstood.

And launching that many missiles is the fact of RL. Incase of a naval war between the USA and Soviets, both would most likely launch hundereds in 2-3 runs. From what I see, this is at least reasonable by RL's standards. Not too little, not too much (200<).

Also, discussion being moved to this thread...

OOC:
1. They can land on the J-MOB and any of the 36 UVC's

2. It's been 4 rl days, that's 500,000 a day, rl.

3. I had Z-3's running for 3 days, and they hold like 50 troops a plane, + there was helo's coming off the helicoper assault ships, and I had about 500,000 troops on the ships alone
I thought it was 6? :P
Also, the J-MOB still can't hold a million troop even with your UVCs, that just completely out of the line in my opinion. It is primarily for aircraft I believe.

Also, yes, I can understand that there are assualt ships. But I don't see there's any way you could have 500,000 troops on the ships. Perhaps stats on how many assualt ships you have? The Wasp can only hold 1894, while "1900+" for the Tarawas. Still, transport via helicopter is only going to bring infantry, so not much useful. With that, I can still wipe your units off with a few artillery and missiles. Even with that, I didn't see you RP the helicopters actually coming off and the assualt ships actually arrive at my coast.

As said, your Z-3s would most likely require a landin strip, which was only available like a day ago. You've RPed it just now, probably not even 1000 troops even arrived.

As said, you could have 2.3 million troops, but not when you are landing them by this way. Unless this is like WWX/WWIX/etc., claiming that 2.3 million troops landed this fast is just unacceptable.

I'll see some of other's opinion on this.

He probably misunderstood.

And launching that many missiles is the fact of RL. Incase of a naval war between the USA and Soviets, both would most likely launch hundereds in 2-3 runs. From what I see, this is at least reasonable by RL's standards. Not too little, not too much (200<).



No, it is not a fact of RL. Naval warfare isn't even a fact of RL anymore. Technology has made naval warfare pointless, because there are systems to counter most everything.

Also, about launching that many missiles: That is just fucking stupid. You do realize that by launching hundreds of missiles in a run or two, you will run out right? Unless you have a missle producing factory on board, don't think you can get away with launching hundreds of missiles and then still having enough to reload and do the same thing. Also, by launching that many missiles, what are you going to have left to fight aircraft?

Using the "logic" (if you can call it that) you guys are using, I should launch a few thousand cruise missiles (at one time mind you).

Well, the way I see it:

A landing strip has been avaible for 4 days, the J-MOB is a giant landing strip. Also, the assault ships hold about 1500 troops, I had 15 of them there. Also, I assumed the beach was relitively safe, so the rp'ing of them landing wasn't necassary.

Also, I thought, by reading some info, that nothing froze, and the war would continue, that's how these #'s are here. If that's not the case, tell me how long it was frozen, and I'll alter the numbers.

No, it is not a fact of RL. Naval warfare isn't even a fact of RL anymore. Technology has made naval warfare pointless, because there are systems to counter most everything.
Actually, no. If naval warfare has gone anyways, you wouldn't still see ships loaded with anti-ship missiles even. Sure, other stuff could sink these ships, but it is very obvious that naval warfare still lives, no questions asked.

Also, about launching that many missiles: That is just f--- stupid. You do realize that by launching hundreds of missiles in a run or two, you will run out right? Unless you have a missle producing factory on board, don't think you can get away with launching hundreds of missiles and then still having enough to reload and do the same thing. Also, by launching that many missiles, what are you going to have left to fight aircraft?
Of course, run out. And CSJ and I did empty all the anti-ship missiles onboard in that one run, I don't think it makes any sense to have a bunch of bombers attacking ships in one run and still conserve a few unused ASMs for "future use".
Also, of course, I have AAMs on board for self-defence. That's a different story.

Using the "logic" (if you can call it that) you guys are using, I should launch a few thousand cruise missiles (at one time mind you).
No, that simply means that you are launching a bunch of missiles and emptying the entire munitions your ship have, without reloads (since you didn't have any ammunition/replenshiment ships on your list). As said in a RL naval combat, there will be hundreds of anti-ship missiles launched in a large attack to sink an entire fleet, but it wouldn't make sense to waste a few billions on attacking all the targets in range, would it? Costs will count if the Soviets/USA launched thousands of cruise missiles just to attack a few targets. It is simply impossible in this completely-different cruise missile case.

Well, the way I see it:

A landing strip has been avaible for 4 days, the J-MOB is a giant landing strip. Also, the assault ships hold about 1500 troops, I had 15 of them there. Also, I assumed the beach was relitively safe, so the rp'ing of them landing wasn't necassary.

Also, I thought, by reading some info, that nothing froze, and the war would continue, that's how these #'s are here. If that's not the case, tell me how long it was frozen, and I'll alter the numbers.

1500 x 15 = 22,500, not 500,000. More like 1500x 350 = 525,000, which is obviously too much.

The J-MOB, keep in mind, is an offshore base, possibly hundreds of KM offshore, since I would sink it if it comes in. With that, a reminder that while the JMOB can carry troops I believe, it can't carry a big 500,000 infantry.

Because the beach is safe, it doesn't mean that you could just avoid RP the landing. Doing so is just making a message that "I haven't landed". :P Keep in mind, this is RP.

At the last issue, yes, I can understand. We are all confused, I guess. I assumed that because you asked me to delay Lightening and say that you would be away for a few RL days, the timeline would be essentially "frozen" for you. Ah well, you thought the reverse.

In your situation, you'll probably still have the remaining 30,000+ troops left. I also assume that more are on the way? Excellent, Lightening will start soon :twisted:

Again, sorry for the confusion, and the harsh arguments with it. Guess that I'm on a bad temper today, and got myself confused all along.

So...you mean to tell me they carry 6,000 on their ships? :roll:

Exactly, I was refering to the missile stockpile on his carriers, use your head. Launching that many missiles is absurd, I don't care who you are.
Well, since those planes came from an Air Base, I think that's kind of null and void. Do read

The Naval Base near the small city of Garbonhanturg(OOC: Yes, long name :P), or simply called Garbon City in Central Omz, is very busy. The Naval base is a few that also has a full-fledged naval air base nearby, for land-based naval aircraft.

A huge force of 12 A-12Cs and 10 EA-220A Tactical Strike Fighter-Bombers, plus 2 EF-35A Blazer radar jamming aircraft, prepared their forces. The A-12Cs, loaded with 4 air-launched AGM-84F Harpoons, and the EA-220As, loaded with the same load, would take off with a fuel tanks for a very long-range anti-ship mission. Each are also armed with 2 Cockatrice MRAAMs and 2 HARMs for self-protection, as these are light-enough. The EF-35A Blazers would provide jamming cover for the aircraft, and decrease the chance the ship's radars will detect them, while also armed with HARMs.
See, no carriers.

Yep. I follow the traditional Soviet tradition of having naval land-based Tu-22ms. Only Tu-22ms replaced with attack aircraft.

Actually, no. If naval warfare has gone anyways, you wouldn't still see ships loaded with anti-ship missiles even. Sure, other stuff could sink these ships, but it is very obvious that naval warfare still lives, no questions asked.

I'm talking about ship to ship naval combat. Face it, it's obsolete.


Of course, run out. And CSJ and I did empty all the anti-ship missiles onboard in that one run, I don't think it makes any sense to have a bunch of bombers attacking ships in one run and still conserve a few unused ASMs for "future use".
Also, of course, I have AAMs on board for self-defence. That's a different story.


No no no....I'm not talking your planes, I'm talking your carriers and supply ships. For one thing, no bomber can hold enough munitions for the kind of strikes you guys are doing.


No, that simply means that you are launching a bunch of missiles and emptying the entire munitions your ship have, without reloads (since you didn't have any ammunition/replenshiment ships on your list). As said in a RL naval combat, there will be hundreds of anti-ship missiles launched in a large attack to sink an entire fleet, but it wouldn't make sense to waste a few billions on attacking all the targets in range, would it? Costs will count if the Soviets/USA launched thousands of cruise missiles just to attack a few targets. It is simply impossible in this completely-different cruise missile case.

You completely confused what I'm trying to say. I said that if it's alright for you guys to fire hundreds of missiles, then why can't I, regardless of what kind they are?



Look, I'm sick of arguing with you. Next time you guys to decide to launch 200 missiles at one time (while conveniently saying I can't stop them), I'm just going to ignore cannon your ass. I'm not going to waste anymore time arguing with you about RL missile scenarios that are never going to happen.

So...you mean to tell me they carry 6,000 on their ships? :roll:

Exactly, I was refering to the missile stockpile on his carriers, use your head. Launching that many missiles is absurd, I don't care who you are.
Well, since those planes came from an Air Base, I think that's kind of null and void. Do read



Well, that's not the impression I'm getting. From what limited posts I've had time to read, what's going on with me is a naval conflict right now. I didn't know your planes came from an airbase, BUT at any rate, your missile stockpiles are not unlimited, do keep that in mind.

Yes, but all ships cary some marines, and the Visby corvets have alot on them. Also, the J-MOB carries (this was made by Powerfularmies, so bugger him about it) 5000 troops.

Ok, so lets' just say that I've got abut 1.1 Million ashore, and that they are spread out (which i was implying b4)

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4) CSJ, Omz222, and anyone else to stop complaining over the smallest of details- we are not all experts on military hardware.


Omz claims to be 12 years old, and by the nature of his posts, he's trying to make himself out to be some expert. Funny.

3) Barbarosea to lower troop numbers to 200,000, just to stop the fight over it, and because OC and SC combined only have around 50,000 troops, and 2.3 million seems a tad bit intimidating.
Ok, 600,000, cuz really 200,000 is conservitavie.

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He probably misunderstood.

And launching that many missiles is the fact of RL. Incase of a naval war between the USA and Soviets, both would most likely launch hundereds in 2-3 runs. From what I see, this is at least reasonable by RL's standards. Not too little, not too much (200<).

Also, discussion being moved to this thread...

OOC:
1. They can land on the J-MOB and any of the 36 UVC's

2. It's been 4 rl days, that's 500,000 a day, rl.

3. I had Z-3's running for 3 days, and they hold like 50 troops a plane, + there was helo's coming off the helicoper assault ships, and I had about 500,000 troops on the ships alone
I thought it was 6? :P
Also, the J-MOB still can't hold a million troop even with your UVCs, that just completely out of the line in my opinion. It is primarily for aircraft I believe.

Also, yes, I can understand that there are assualt ships. But I don't see there's any way you could have 500,000 troops on the ships. Perhaps stats on how many assualt ships you have? The Wasp can only hold 1894, while "1900+" for the Tarawas. Still, transport via helicopter is only going to bring infantry, so not much useful. With that, I can still wipe your units off with a few artillery and missiles. Even with that, I didn't see you RP the helicopters actually coming off and the assualt ships actually arrive at my coast.

As said, your Z-3s would most likely require a landin strip, which was only available like a day ago. You've RPed it just now, probably not even 1000 troops even arrived.

As said, you could have 2.3 million troops, but not when you are landing them by this way. Unless this is like WWX/WWIX/etc., claiming that 2.3 million troops landed this fast is just unacceptable.

I'll see some of other's opinion on this.
For the force you claim, you would need 167 50,000 ton supply ships just to keep them going for one week. You'd also need the means to get those supplies ashore, which you'd be rather lacking.

A force of that size cannot be landed. It must be deployed after the landing has successfully captured a MAJOR seaport. Otherwise, the logistics are too much for any amphibious force, real or NS, to support. Even at Normandy, the actual landings amunted to only a few hundred thousand over several days. Most of the invading troops only came ashore after a major port was taken. If that had not been done, the entire invasion would have failed. Also, Normandy was a short-range operation. Unless you're a mere 100 km or so from Omz, I wouldn't consider trying the same thing, as it can't be done over long distances.
Landing 500,000 troops per day by any means is excessive. Unless you have a massive landing fleet and at least 2 major ports, which have been getting supplies for some time in advance, you shouldn't even try it.

I don't care how big the J-MOB and other things are. You can't process 500,000 troops in one day, nor do you have the sealift to be carrying 2.3 million fully equipped troops, and the supplies they need, at once.

For 500,000 on the landing ships. Look at my force. You're claiming a landing force that's 3 times that. That's getting a little excessive.

Finally, transit time is not the only factor in transport. Your aircraft would be hard pressed to make 2-3 flights a day each, with the fuel, maintenance, loading/unloading, etc requirements. With 1000 planes, that amounts to 150,000 troops per day, and there's still nothing about the logistics.

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So I noticed

*Choice Words witheld*

btw:

STILL WAITING FOR OTHER PLAYERS TO GIVE INFORMATION ON THEIR EQUIPMENT
I'm sorely tempted not to respond to any attacks until you do :P

http://www.military.com/Resources/EQG/EQGmain

There, my equipment is all there.

Except for my infantry rifle, the SBP-90. It's based off the P90 bullpup rifle.

SC:

1) Agreed. *Takes a chill pill*
2) Well no, but this is a realistic RP, remember. As long as this don't get to ignore fests, it should be fine. Trying my best.
3) Thank you. Also a thanks to Barbarosea for his clarification and willingness to comply. Thank you again.
4) Understood, sorry if it caused you any confustion. Will do.
5) *Takes chill pill again*

Omz claims to be 12 years old, and by the nature of his posts, he's trying to make himself out to be some expert. Funny.

Overall I admit I am underage (18>), that doesn't mean that I can't be interested in military hardware, does it? :P (Not speaking in an angry way).

Overall I admit I am underage (18>), that doesn't mean that I can't be interested in military hardware, does it? :P (Not speaking in an angry way).

So...you're not 12 then, eh?

Besides, 12 year olds would probably be more interested in Nintendo than scowering the web researching military equipment. Personally, if I knew a 12 year old that had those kind of "hobbies", I'd be wondering if he was plotting something. :P

btw:

STILL WAITING FOR OTHER PLAYERS TO GIVE INFORMATION ON THEIR EQUIPMENT
I'm sorely tempted not to respond to any attacks until you do :P
Sorry for delaying this (and sorry for DB).

My equipments:
90% CSJ's, some Remiesia's, with the following exception (not all are going to be used perhaps, but ah well, list them all):
-F/A-160 (EA-160 Wolverine), light fighter: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71886
-E-70 (EA-70), mini-JSTAR:
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26456&highlight=
-C-80 (EA-80), Tactical Transport:
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38933
-EM-240 Leviathan SSN:
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=86886&highlight=
-EM-200 Victory CVN:
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=77139&highlight=
-Oppressor Class CVN: 130 aircraft, modified with Vanguard (Remiesia) and Dragon CIWS, plus Sea Sparrow launchers.
-Marx Class Dreadnaught (heavily modified): 30-50 aircraft (forgot, really, gotta check), some 5/8/12 inch guns, 64 cell VLS, Sea Sparrow and SM-2 launchers, Tomahawk and Harpoon launchers. Heavily armored.

Others not mentioned but sounding familiar (Avenger, Hercules Recovery Vehicles, F-15E, M113s, etc) are US equipments. Organic and origional.

OT:



Overall I admit I am underage (18>), that doesn't mean that I can't be interested in military hardware, does it? :P (Not speaking in an angry way).

So...you're not 12 then, eh?
Well, not now, that's for sure :P

Besides, 12 year olds would probably be more interested in Nintendo than scowering the web researching military equipment. Personally, if I knew a 12 year old that had those kind of "hobbies", I'd be wondering if he was plotting something. :P
Hmm... I'd recall that I used to be interested in computer stuff and aviation. Some do have special interests, and you gotta respect them. Ah well.

10,000,000 soldiers of Barbarosean Army equipped with:
Type-1 Battledresses: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54752&highlight=
LIR-1 Rifles: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43134&highlight=
And a pack with vitals
The Headseat in the T-1's was retrofitted with BCU (Barbarosea Comm Units)

Overall I admit I am underage (18>), that doesn't mean that I can't be interested in military hardware, does it? :P (Not speaking in an angry way).

So...you're not 12 then, eh?

Besides, 12 year olds would probably be more interested in Nintendo than scowering the web researching military equipment. Personally, if I knew a 12 year old that had those kind of "hobbies", I'd be wondering if he was plotting something. :P
lol
When I was 12, I don't think I even knew much about the internet. Our Apple IIgs didn't do much after all. But as soon as I learned how to use the internet, I was researching military equipment. That was about when I was 14 . . .

Offtopic:
lol
When I was 12, I don't think I even knew much about the internet. Our Apple IIgs didn't do much after all. But as soon as I learned how to use the internet, I was researching military equipment. That was about when I was 14 . . .

Apple IIgs... I still remember those old refurbished early 90s-made Macs at our school. Still some computers from the early '80es there (bit more advanced than Apple IIs), though.

For some reason, I view researching military-related matters as one of by hobbies now :shock: But still much smaller than playing NS :P

******

Anyways, some urban combat should hopefully be commercing soon, as I get rid all of my homework I'm getting. Still too lazy to do it now, and unprepared also ICly now. Hmm...

Offtopic:
lol
When I was 12, I don't think I even knew much about the internet. Our Apple IIgs didn't do much after all. But as soon as I learned how to use the internet, I was researching military equipment. That was about when I was 14 . . .

Apple IIgs... I still remember those old refurbished early 90s-made Macs at our school. Still some computers from the early '80es there (bit more advanced than Apple IIs), though.

For some reason, I view researching military-related matters as one of by hobbies now :shock: But still much smaller than playing NS :P

******

Anyways, some urban combat should hopefully be commercing soon, as I get rid all of my homework I'm getting. Still too lazy to do it now, and unprepared also ICly now. Hmm...
We had the Apple II until we moved into our current house about 8 years ago. Then we finally got a newer PC (since junked), and the replacement for that, which I'm using now, is on its last legs.

My high school had decent Macs for the time (over half a dozen computer labs of them in fact). It also had two labs of IBMs for the computer courses. We had another two labs, including some iMacs, by the time I left.
My high school was one of the best funded in the state, and we were so high up on technology that the governer came in to see for himself when there were complaints about a reform that would have cut funding significantly. :roll:

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SC, I heard you are going to climb this weekend? If so, would the RP be also "frozen" for a small period since you are a major layer in this? If this is frozen, might be a time to play the game Lock-On Modern Air Combat (www.lo-mac.com) I'm going to buy :P

No, I am going next weekend.

No, I am going next weekend.
OOC: Hmm, I thought you said this weekend, since last weekend you said it is "next weekend". :?

Ah well.

I know. My dates got pushed back, because of another event, which I won't go into detail here.I am assured to go next week, but knowing all the crap that goes on around here that probably means I will go next year.

I know. My dates got pushed back, because of another event, which I won't go into detail here.I am assured to go next week, but knowing all the crap that goes on around here that probably means I will go next year.
Hmm... Well, if you go, by all means, good luck.

"But as always, we need to alert the enemy, so that they are of course, in a state of shock. Our forces are resisting their strikes, hopefully they'll have our remaining forces unnoticed, or at least not to be put on the top list.

Yeah umm.....you guys realize we are expecting a counter-attack and while we don't know when you are attacking the fact that you do attack us will not catch us off guard or in "a state of shock" we will simply say, "hey they are attacking us." Oh, and wish you luck on your counter-attack!

Yeah umm.....you guys realize we are expecting a counter-attack and while we don't know when you are attacking the fact that you do attack us will not catch us off guard or in "a state of shock" we will simply say, "hey they are attacking us." Oh, and wish you luck on your counter-attack!
I do know, that's why my forces are essentially delaying.

Also, a note on timeline, very cruical to claims about how many forces landed:

The RP timelin here is a few NS days/1 week=1 RL day, as we want this to be slow and not 10 large daily operations per day. You don't see I move 100,000 soldiers within a few days within my own land, nor do you see I bomb the beach a thousand times daily. Remember, this is dragging the "normal" NS times down -- as the same puprose, we want this to be slow. Think how people counted the Iraqi war: "Day 1, day 2, day 3," etc.

So please, no 100 operations within a few days, nor landing 2 million troops within a RL week. Also remember logistics, on a non-relating matter. Soldiers need fuel, ammunition, and supplies. Nor can they fight 24 hours, or stay hungry and ammo-free for days or prepared to fight once they get into the ships. Just supplying 10,000 soldiers need a lot of supplies, not mentioning 100,000+.

I'm sure that's the time standard we are on now. Just a clarification.

EDIT: Or, if SC wants, we could be more flexible with a "dynamic timeline" -- that is, the number of NS days/weeks changes as RL days passed. This should allow more room to RP, not to just stick with a short time, like we are on now (since it seems that operations are going slow on both sides).

The thing is I cannot get online everyday so I must go over what my troops are doing or will be doing within the frame of the next few days or so. We only have 76,500 troops in the city at the moment with a string of ships going between SC and Honjaksgrad to resupply everyone within the city, although, they are also using some of the food stocks we looted when we captured the place. Also, I might add that multitasking within a city is very possible. Some of my troops are laying traps, others are building defenses, some are just sitting around eating nachos. So I hope you understand if I put in a bit much for all of my troops to do in one day, although I think that most of my operations have been pretty much within limits so far. Thank you and have a nice day!

The thing is I cannot get online everyday so I must go over what my troops are doing or will be doing within the frame of the next few days or so. We only have 76,500 troops in the city at the moment with a string of ships going between SC and Honjaksgrad to resupply everyone within the city, although, they are also using some of the food stocks we looted when we captured the place. Also, I might add that multitasking within a city is very possible. Some of my troops are laying traps, others are building defenses, some are just sitting around eating nachos. So I hope you understand if I put in a bit much for all of my troops to do in one day, although I think that most of my operations have been pretty much within limits so far. Thank you and have a nice day!
No, it is no problem. As long as it is reasonable, it should be fine.

Um, Omz222, can you state how many losses you took from the FAE bomb? And where exactly is your buildup area? Last I heard, it was 400-700kms to the west, no I am hearing it is to the north. What's up?

And as for the surprise thing, think of it like the end of Saving Private Ryan. The American guys knew the massive counter-attack was coming, only they didn't know when. And see how good they did!

Um, Omz222, can you state how many losses you took from the FAE bomb? And where exactly is your buildup area? Last I heard, it was 400-700kms to the west, no I am hearing it is to the north. What's up?

About 700-900, the entire area bombed was wiped out. The buildup area is approx. 400km northwest currently, and will be (once new forces arriveD) northwest and central west.

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So your northwest troops will be fighting OC troops, and your central west troops will be fighting mine? Not to mention the Barbaroseans.
Essentially my plan is to press in and fight all in the area. But I might change my mind. Hmm...

Oh, and just to let you know, my night stalkers are going to drop "food on those camps, and it will be the chemical known as Shiva, it's a liquid the food is basted in, and it attacks the heart by constricting it so much that it stops beating. It will take effect in about 7-9 minutes, with the strong hearted dieing off at about 2 hours. It spreads through breath. Just a OOC FYI.

Hey...

You guys are doing a great job with this war so far. There's been good RPing on both sides, which is more and more rare these days.

While I realize you've restricted the war to the 4 nations per side previously listed, Omz, CSJ, and myself are currently undergoing negotiations of a pretty strong alliance. Since Liberty Fighters seems to have dropped off the radar from what I can tell, would it be alright if I participated as well? My involvement would come slowly, a declaration of war would likely come immediately after the alliance is formed (assuming it does), and direct involvement would gradually pick up after that.

Let me know what you think. I think I can RP wars fairly well, I'm not so big on the military knowledge, but I try to keep my RPs organized and interesting. I can give you some links if you want a track record.

Thanks for your consideration.

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Oh, and just to let you know, my night stalkers are going to drop "food on those camps, and it will be the chemical known as Shiva, it's a liquid the food is basted in, and it attacks the heart by constricting it so much that it stops beating. It will take effect in about 7-9 minutes, with the strong hearted dieing off at about 2 hours. It spreads through breath. Just a OOC FYI.

Any infomation about how this constricts the heart, and how it spreads through just a small breath? Hmm, I also don't see what's the difference of different hearts.

Hey...

You guys are doing a great job with this war so far. There's been good RPing on both sides, which is more and more rare these days.

While I realize you've restricted the war to the 4 nations per side previously listed, Omz, CSJ, and myself are currently undergoing negotiations of a pretty strong alliance. Since Liberty Fighters seems to have dropped off the radar from what I can tell, would it be alright if I participated as well? My involvement would come slowly, a declaration of war would likely come immediately after the alliance is formed (assuming it does), and direct involvement would gradually pick up after that.

Let me know what you think. I think I can RP wars fairly well, I'm not so big on the military knowledge, but I try to keep my RPs organized and interesting. I can give you some links if you want a track record.

Thanks for your consideration.
Since LF seems to be on a "me asking him for help if needed" basis, I guess you could be in, after I TG LF and he agrees on it.

I can vouch for it. Ferrussia's a great RPer, I agree.

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It travels through the bloodstreem to the heart, then forms a constricting layer around the heart, thus making it harder and harder to pump blood through the body. Then, it finally just stops from stress. The difference is that someone with a weak heart will be affected quicker, and a stronger heart is longer. It doesn't spread with a small breath, but since they'll be breathing the same air, it will spread pretty quick.

It travels through the bloodstreem to the heart, then forms a constricting layer around the heart, thus making it harder and harder to pump blood through the body. Then, it finally just stops from stress. The difference is that someone with a weak heart will be affected quicker, and a stronger heart is longer. It doesn't spread with a small breath, but since they'll be breathing the same air, it will spread pretty quick.
I see... How will the virus carried by breath anyways? Maybe morel ike coughing, like SARS? :twisted: SARS spread from salivas, and I don't think viruses can spread through thin air... Ah well.

well, i dunno, see this was a theroy by my friend for uh, nevermind :twisted:

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I will need a background check on Ferrussia, such as past RP threads.

As per your request:

Fyreheart and The Old Ways (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53058) - Fyreheart was an ally, and were being attacked from within by a fanatic group called The Old Ways (TOW). Many Fyreheartian forces defected to the TOW, and many of their allies came in to help. Most of the war was fought in (I believe) Serpentia City. I RPed securing the airport, a vital resource in the reclamation of the city, and then took over for Fyreheart as the person RPing the TOW.

Nimbatan Civil War (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60285) - My involvement begins on page 6. This is a civil war that has been excellently RPed by almost all parties involved (save for the first couple pages). It is still underway, and the bulk of my land fighting RPing occurs between ~10-end page. It has been an excellent RP for me, as well as a huge learning experience.

Ferrussian/Omz/CSJ Diplomatic talks (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=94743) - Just getting under way, and would be a primary candidate for my gradual (see my initial post) IC entry. It's coming out pretty well, in my opinion, and it's neat to RP all of the diplomatic formalities that are often lost to OOC negotiations.


Also, I will have to come up with a few decent restrictions, such as:

He cannot take part in the counter-attack.

Not a problem.

He must take a few days before he can send troops, because you can't just declare war out of nowhere and immediately respond with troops.

I realize what you mean and what you're concerned about, and don't worry, I have no illusions about instant deployment. Even if Ferrussia does ICly declare war on SC and the invading forces today or tomorrow, it will take RL days for forces of any subsistence to get there (my primary method of deployment is by sea).

He must be 'up' on the events of the moment, I mean like having read the whole RP and up to date on things.

Already done. I've been reading the RP as it goes along. It's been pretty interesting so far.

Any others if they come up within a little bit.

Sounds good. Thanks for allowing me the chance to join! :D

Well, if it is a chemical, it can easily be breathed in.

I think this, if it is a chemical weapon, would be a gas in its original state. This can be breathed in very easily, such as VX or CG gas. This gas would be a pulmonary restricting weapon.

Now, onto the complexity of such a weapon. As you described, it starts off as a liquid. If it starts off as a liquid the food is basted in, it would have to be very very complex, because it would have to do two things to bring about the functions you previously stated.

You mentioned it goes through the pulmonary system, and you also stated that it could be breathed in. Now, unless the person is just sitting with the food at his mouth and inhaling deeply, it would have to do two things. First, it would be required to pass through into the digestive system, and make its way into the pulmonary system by passing through the small intestine after digestion. While that would be difficult enough to engineer, if it were to be able to be breathed in, it would also have to perform a second function, that being forming a gas after contact with the enzymes in the mouth and/or any of the other 'juices' used in digestion such as the gastric juice or bile. At which point it would be required to produce a gas which would pass through the body through either a belch or travel through the intestinal tract to come out in the form of a "fart". Now, this would be an incredibly difficult chemical to engineer, but I've been wrong before, so, yeah.

-----

Omz222:

I finally caught you! Sorry buddy, but the DPICM is not a shell, but a subminution. (Dual Purpose Inproved Conventional Munition). They were fired from a cargo shell. The submunitions are about the size of a falshlight battery. We are not using the DPICMs as instant hit munitions, but as mines; they can be detonated by pressure or remote detonation.

I can't believe I caught you wrong on something. So, until this is edited or something, I am just not gonna reply to that post. Again, not trying to be mean or anything, I am just pissing my pants realizing that I caught you with your pants down.

EDIT: And it may be just me, but I sort of find it hard to believe that if you have artillery just about 10 miles away from Honjaksgrad, that they would just be sitting there. I mean, if anything, they would have left or already fired on our positions, unless they were just completely oblivious to the whole 'invasion' going on. I guess it's just me.

Also, a thing about the 66th Mechanized Infantry "Gangland" Division.

The 66th is a top division in the SCAF, and is a primary tool for urban scenarios, such as the one we are in now. They are known as "Gangland" because, even though they have received all of the training that any other soldier has, they are all from a 'hood' in Ghillie- many from Ensemble District. 98% of them are black, while the other 2% are Mexican/White. They are spectacular at urban combat, especially seeing as how they grew up on the hard streets of Ghillie. Their 'mechanized' portion of their division is basically made up of several Chevy Z-71 pickups, Escalades, and El Dorrados, all of which have integrated armor and bullet-proof tires. The Escalades are suited for carrying troops; Z-71s have GEC miniguns strapped to the back of them (one operator and more troops in the back); and the El Dorrados are basically just troop carriers with a lower capacity and are suited for when speed is essential.

Just something I wanted to post...
Saying the Chemical would be difficult to engineer would be an understatement. Such a complex chemical, assuming it could even be done, would be incredibly expensive and difficult to produce. I won't even get into the difficulty of having some stay in the body with some being ejected (it would be all or nothing, except possibly with oral transmission). Even then, I strongly suggest you make sure it's non-persistant, and does not remain harmful too long. If you say otherwise, you're being absurd and should just say it's a biological weapon instead. Also, you might get some unwelcome retaliation from that. Remember, we would certainly find out what happened sooner or later, and WMDs aren't taken lightly.

As for the DPICM, the problem is that you called it DPICM when what you were referring to was FASCAM, and that's where the confusion comes from. DPICM submunitions are simple grenades that detonate on impact, they're too small to have more than a contact fuse and the explosive. There is a hazardous dud rate, where a few of them will be live, but fail to detonate on impact, becoming de-facto mines. However, that would amount to only 1-4 per shell. FASCAM are the artillery delivered mines, which can be set on a timer or radio detonated to allow safe passage for friendly troops.

As for the artillery, the range on my systems is over 30 miles, so he doesn't have to be that close. Still, he was confused that you were shelling some positions he might have just outside the city, which wouldn't be that unlikely to be there.

Omz222:

I finally caught you! Sorry buddy, but the DPICM is not a shell, but a subminution. (Dual Purpose Inproved Conventional Munition). They were fired from a cargo shell. The submunitions are about the size of a falshlight battery. We are not using the DPICMs as instant hit munitions, but as mines; they can be detonated by pressure or remote detonation.

Hmm... I thought DPICM was supposed to have anti-personnel and anti-tank submunitions instead of mines? Hmm...
And yes, I do know DPICM is more like a "cluster artillery shell" rather than an instant hit one. I used it in August :P Ah well, bad brains.
EDIT: And it may be just me, but I sort of find it hard to believe that if you have artillery just about 10 miles away from Honjaksgrad, that they would just be sitting there. I mean, if anything, they would have left or already fired on our positions, unless they were just completely oblivious to the whole 'invasion' going on. I guess it's just me.
Of course, unless your forces figure out where to hit "by hand" (like the Iraqis did, since they don't have an effective way to find artillery positions). It's more like a counter-battery fire, we were just taking "measures". Plus, since we are in a standoff range, we probably don't know where to hit exactly, unless there's some shells coming and my firefinder radar finds where it is fired. Ah well, also my mistake, I guess.

*Slaps head*

If possible...could someone here send me an unbiased (i.e. no, and then troops from XYZ analy raped soldiers from ABC in battle, just numbers and movements) by tgram or AIM (Ninja8503). All part of somethign else im involved in.

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I guess Mr. Dunnigan is just wrong about DPICMs then...
On a note, the FASCAM could also deliver "normal" anti-personnel/armor/etc submunitions. But if yo uare talking about the M864 DPICM, then no.

I guess Mr. Dunnigan is just wrong about DPICMs then...
As you stated earlier, DPICM stands for "Dual Purpose Improved Conventional Munition." It is a family of several different types of dual purpose anti-armor/anti-personnel grenades. These include the M80, the M77 used by MLRS rockets, the M42 & M46 grenades delivered by field artillery shells, and the newer M85 submunitions intended to replace the other DPICM rounds, which have a rather high hazardous dud rate (the M85 has a self-destruct system to eliminate this problem).

FASCAM, on the other hand, stands for "Family of Scatterable Mines." These include the M67 & M72 ADAM antipersonnel mines, and the M70 & M73 RAAMS antitank mines, all of which are artillery delivered. There are additional variations that are delivered by Gator cluster bombs, Volcano mine dispensers, and MOPMS light mine dispensors. You will note that the mines are specialized, as that's much easier and more effective than trying to devise a dual-purpose unit.


The cargo shells that deliver all of these are not all that different. However, the designation of DPICM or FASCAM refers to the submunition carried, not the round that deploys it. I will note that some sources mistakenly refer to the M483 DPICM round as a FASCAM. This is an error, so don't be confused.
DPICM rounds are M26 & M30 (MLRS), M915 & M916 (105mm), M971 (120mm mortar), and M483, M864, & M982 (155mm). The navy's 155mm LAGP & SAGP, as well as the 127mm ERGM, are all DPICM rounds as well.
FASCAM rounds are M692, M718, M731, M741, and M1023, all of them being 155mm projectiles.
There will likely be a variant of the M982 with FASCAM, but it will almost certainly have a separate designation.

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Sigh. Oh well, I tried to sound like I knew something about the military, and failed miserably. Thanks alot, Dunnigan. War junkies always win- shucks.
No hard feelings, everyone makes mistakes. Learn and observe.

After all, I did believe that ICBMs can be guided by laser :P

alirght, been gone a while. Will one generous soul give me a summary of what has happened starting with about page 7?
and 2.) Dont forget about me Omz, my RLD's are no laughing matter...

alirght, been gone a while. Will one generous soul give me a summary of what has happened starting with about page 7?
and 2.) Dont forget about me Omz, my RLD's are no laughing matter...
2) Well no, but I admit, we are trying to keep this active. Not to let you think that I'm telling you to "Screw off" or anything.

I guess Mr. Dunnigan is just wrong about DPICMs then...
As you stated earlier, DPICM stands for "Dual Purpose Improved Conventional Munition." It is a family of several different types of dual purpose anti-armor/anti-personnel grenades. These include the M80, the M77 used by MLRS rockets, the M42 & M46 grenades delivered by field artillery shells, and the newer M85 submunitions intended to replace the other DPICM rounds, which have a rather high hazardous dud rate (the M85 has a self-destruct system to eliminate this problem).

FASCAM, on the other hand, stands for "Family of Scatterable Mines." These include the M67 & M72 ADAM antipersonnel mines, and the M70 & M73 RAAMS antitank mines, all of which are artillery delivered. There are additional variations that are delivered by Gator cluster bombs, Volcano mine dispensers, and MOPMS light mine dispensors. You will note that the mines are specialized, as that's much easier and more effective than trying to devise a dual-purpose unit.


The cargo shells that deliver all of these are not all that different. However, the designation of DPICM or FASCAM refers to the submunition carried, not the round that deploys it. I will note that some sources mistakenly refer to the M483 DPICM round as a FASCAM. This is an error, so don't be confused.
DPICM rounds are M26 & M30 (MLRS), M915 & M916 (105mm), M971 (120mm mortar), and M483, M864, & M982 (155mm). The navy's 155mm LAGP & SAGP, as well as the 127mm ERGM, are all DPICM rounds as well.
FASCAM rounds are M692, M718, M731, M741, and M1023, all of them being 155mm projectiles.
There will likely be a variant of the M982 with FASCAM, but it will almost certainly have a separate designation.

Warning-Sales Pitch-Inbound

If you like cargo munitions see:


Advanced Artillery submuntions (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=74839)

based on ones manufactured by IMI.

Does anyone have a link to the main thread.

I was just wondering whether I could get involved in a sort of underhand covert way as although Im likely to support Omz though i wouldnt want to openly fight SC.

Does anyone have a link to the main thread.

I was just wondering whether I could get involved in a sort of underhand covert way as although Im likely to support Omz though i wouldnt want to openly fight SC.
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=92567&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=180

Well, just a note, it is invite-only OOCly too, so I don't think there is a way... Thanks anyways.

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Sorry UE.

On a different note, just a question.

How would Omz222 and CSJ generals or whatever know that 'obviously the west and south' are the best places to attack? I just don't see how you would ICly know that those two areas are the 'best' places to launch an attack.
Maybe the nature that most of my forces' buildup is in the northwest, not directly west and not south? Typically forces concentrate on forces buildup by enemies.

But ah well, I can change it.

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No don't change it. I'm not complaining atall. I was just interested in knowing how. It's fine by me.

Well, it is already changed, I thought that you are not too ok with it :P Ah well, CSJ haven't replied to it right now anyways.

alirght, been gone a while. Will one generous soul give me a summary of what has happened starting with about page 7?
and 2.) Dont forget about me Omz, my RLD's are no laughing matter...
2) Well no, but I admit, we are trying to keep this active. Not to let you think that I'm telling you to "Screw off" or anything.

I know, but I have 2,000 of my most elite Spec Operators in your country, and they havent even been briefed yet.... Lemme do something.

Hey...um...what exactly happened to Remiesia?

Hey...um...what exactly happened to Remiesia?
OOC: Busy? Either school or work.

Any idea when he will be back?

Any idea when he will be back?
Nope, no idea. He might come back on weekdays I'd say.

Sigh, for me, my OOC life is turning to shit and i think hell just froze over. So, I'm gonna have to say that I will repily to short things, but anything long is gonna wait for a bit atleast. Srry to everyone involved.

Sigh, for me, my OOC life is turning to shit and i think hell just froze over. So, I'm gonna have to say that I will repily to short things, but anything long is gonna wait for a bit atleast. Srry to everyone involved.
OOC: Understood, good luck with your RL life, hope you could participate. If you are leaving for long though, we'll be working something out. But nonetheless, don't sacrifice your RL life for NS :P

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Okay, the plot is thickening here.

The counter-attack is about to occur, but there is a slight problem.

I will be here today (Wednesday), but on Thursday, Friday, Staurday, and Sunday, my chances of being on will be slim. If I am able to get online, I will only be able to make a single short post, not a full scale thing like normal. Please take this into consideration.
Understood. Might as well freeze this if you can't get online completely?

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Holy crap. Are you people going to throw like 1000 fighters over the city? I surely hope not.
Um... No. But if this do start an argument, we could have some deal made up...

Holy crap. Are you people going to throw like 1000 fighters over the city? I surely hope not.
Not quite like that.
The mission requirements include escorts for tankers, AWACS, and other vulnerable aircraft. Just for patrol and escort duties with something this big, I'll be using up over half of what I have available.
Plus, we're hitting everything here. All air defense units, all air units, and all naval formations will be targeted. This will be rather like Bodenplatte, where we will throw everything we have for a single knockout blow, to provide cover for our main operation.

Besides, an operation this big means we could suffer some notable losses as well.

Besides, an operation this big means we could suffer some notable losses as well.

= Sniper Country's side can put damages to our side as well :P

We'll see how this works.

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Um, just a note- could you not actually post the attack before I (and/or) OC (and/or) the others on my side post a final prep post? IT's the night before Thanksgiving and things are pretty hectic here.
Understood, your wish is granted. The post will appear before tomorrow I persume?

I see. Hm. Like 500 aircraft against 55 and two massive airships. Should be fun. I just request that this doesn't end up a "Air forces kill everything in the air, sea, and land" thing. Some of us are only good at the ground. But whatever floats yer boat :wink:
No no no no no no no... :P This is just the aerial stage, mainly for destroying radars and gaining air superiority.

Also reminds me of the 10 Western Asian Gatekeepers I've purchased a while ago and just received a few RL weeks ago... Ah well, I'll use them later. :twisted:

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My post will be up in about an hour. I have to go downtown for a bit, and I will finish it up and post it then.
I see... I probably will reply tomorrow morning. Or if I get "lucky", tonight.

In the meanwhile, more tank-busting with my A-10 in the game I just bought :twisted:

First off, a note to Omz and CSJ: Pay attention to the diplomatic RP! :D Thanks.

As for the war, I've RPed going to DEFCON 3 in the IC thread, but I'm still not sure that SC and all of you have approved my involvement. Just making sure. And Sniper, I posted a reply to your requests a page or two back, just wanted to make sure you saw it.

Thanks!

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Okay, well, I just got word from AMF that he has to pull out due to RL and an RF invasion of Greece. So, due to this factor, I have to say I cannot find it possible to admit Ferrussia into the war.

EDITL It would also be nice if I and my alies could get in a reply or something before you guys make four or five posts. Thanks.

1. Understood. With Automagfreek gone, Remiesia's also inactive for a week... Hmm... Oh well.
2. Well, I am trying to not post so much attacks :P But note that only the last few (2-3) posts are actually attack ones.

Nontherless, I will try to wait. However, that will make the RP go slower.

*sigh*

Alright, I understand. But if the opporitunity should prevent itself for me to join, please let me know! I'll be avaliable to a limited extent just about every day. Reliably 1-2 hours, sometimes as much as 5.

Thanks for trying to include me in this.

*sits on the bench and watches the action*

*sigh*

Alright, I understand. But if the opporitunity should prevent itself for me to join, please let me know! I'll be avaliable to a limited extent just about every day. Reliably 1-2 hours, sometimes as much as 5.

Thanks for trying to include me in this.

*sits on the bench and watches the action*
Sorry for the denial. But you are definately on our list.

The Barbarosea J-2's high above the city

"Sir, our LR Radar went out."
"What, when?"
"Just a second ago, we still have the DF and troop radar's but that one's been knocked out."
"Those damn Radar Jammers, what can we do to fire back?"
"Well, we do have a EMP satillite up there, but it's too risky, too many "ifs" involved."
"What about a projection system (PSS)?"
"Well, if we use that we will revail our position, but it would show there's."
"So I see, any other, non-coventional ways?"
"Well, the EL-UAV's we could send out, but I don't kno-"
"What do you mean, I don't know, we have to win this war, skrew the damn logisitics of them, launch it now!"
"Well, um, you see, I don'-"
Two pistol shots echo though the plane, guards rush to the scean, and kill the commander, but it's too late...

Out of the 10 J-2's up, 100 EL-UAV's drop out, and head towards the planes, with no detonation button, they are gone, and the crew can't stop them.

(OOC: EL-UAV's are coventional, they just shine bright light all around, and they have a central EL-UAV that is a Radar that is hardened to EMP and most radar jamming systems. So, I can see your planes, and so can my SAM's and Pat's. The problem with the EL-UAV's is that they were tested for any side effects of there program, and it was found that in certain enviroments, they will give off radition.)
I'm curious as to how these EL-UAVs could possibly affect your ability to see my aircraft. To put it simply, a jammer works by generating signals matching those of the target radar, with the purpose of causing interference. The effect is that a large portion (if not all) of the screen is covered with returns, but it's impossible to discern exactly where in that area the enemy aircraft are. The downside to jamming is that it broadcasts your presence, so the enemy will know you're coming.
Countering jamming is not that easy, and there are only three real solutions. The first is to eliminate the source. The second is to find a frequency the enemy jammers can't duplicate*, and the final one is for the enemy aircraft to get close enough that the radar can "burn through" the jamming. According to what was said about the EL-UAVs, they generate light. That won't help in any way.
You also cannot have a radar that's "hardened" against jammers. If it generates radar signals, jamming systems can duplicate them and jam your radar. If you have a sufficiently powerful radar, you might be able to burn through at a decent range (still not likely to be more than a few dozen km**), but also remember that these are stealth aircraft, so you'll still have trouble seeing them.


*Airborne Jamming pods like the AN/ALQ-99 and the one I use can only cover a limited spectrum, so there are different versions that counter different ranges of frequencies (which is why EW aircraft usually have multiple pods). With the number of aircraft I have out there, I can keep enough variety that this is not an issue.
**Lrge AWACS, ship-based, and fixed ground installations can do better, but I don't believe you have any of these in the immediate area, so that's kind of a mute point. The smaller naval AWACS are about as good as a strong mobile land-based radar, and don't count here.

Ok, they generate light, so my stingers can see them, also the "central" UAV has a very odd signal, so it doesn't give me the exact spot, but withen the general area is good enough for heat-seeking SAM's. It is "hardened" because of the odd signal, so only very specfic pods could jam it. And the J-2's are just like AWACS.

Ok, they generate light, so my stingers can see them, also the "central" UAV has a very odd signal, so it doesn't give me the exact spot, but withen the general area is good enough for heat-seeking SAM's. It is "hardened" because of the odd signal, so only very specfic pods could jam it. And the J-2's are just like AWACS.

Stingers are IR, so is heat-seeking SAMs. it won't work well anyways, since stingers' chance of hitting are slim against our aircraft (with ECM, low-observability, etc.).

EDIT: And like CSJ said, every radar has its different signals. So long the jammer duplicates it, the radar can be jammed. Even now there's already some systems with "jamming proof" systems, but the radar will still be jammed.

Ok, they generate light, so my stingers can see them, also the "central" UAV has a very odd signal, so it doesn't give me the exact spot, but withen the general area is good enough for heat-seeking SAM's. It is "hardened" because of the odd signal, so only very specfic pods could jam it. And the J-2's are just like AWACS.
The UAVs with lights would act more like flares than anything else, so they would also serve to confuse missiles. The stingers are best off when the only return is from enemy aircraft, and any additional IR sources will degrade their performance.

I will accept the "hardened" radar this time, even though that wouldn't really work, but remember that we'll know the exact frequency range after the strike, so it won't work quite so well the next time, and it can still run afoul of an ARM.

CSJ and Omz, I have a quick question. Your fighters are coming in at nighttime right? If they are what kind of vision system are your pilots using to see? Night vision, Infrared, or are your pilots just staring at the radar and looking outside so they don't hit a mountain or anything?

CSJ and Omz, I have a quick question. Your fighters are coming in at nighttime right? If they are what kind of vision system are your pilots using to see? Night vision, Infrared, or are your pilots just staring at the radar and looking outside so they don't hit a mountain or anything?
Night vision, and they follow their waypoints (aka follow routes assigned).

Also, some of my aircraft do have ground search radar.

And no, there isn't really mountains in the south.

48th Tactical Fighter Squadron (Wild Cards)

... EF-35s followed behind, with EC-130s, AWACS, JSTARS, and ELINT/SIGINT/COMINT aircraft back even further...

Sorry to butt in, but doesn't the fact that CSJ has EC-130H Compass Call planes present (the EC-130 is a radio jammer) kind of invalidate SC's defensive plan?

SYNOP said as he stared at his screen, constantly typing up codes and various sequences. General Howe, to whom the statement was directed, looked on. Finally, the enemy were showing themselves.

"... Before you do that, though, get a line on SECNET to all our boys in the sky and tell them to turn off all their NVs and IRs- they can turn `em back on after the blast. Tell them to just, uh, look at the controls or something. It's about to be daytime again. Heh, if their NVs or IRs are on right now, these babies are going to screw the crap out of `em."

SECNET to all Allied Aircraft

All NVs and IRs off. Launching daylight. Don't go blind. Happy hunting.

...

Like I said, hate to butt in, but without radio communications (or at least, without reliable ones), many - if not all - of SCs men would have been blinded as well, and it's doubtful the artillery synchronization could have been achieved without radio communications. I could just be plain wrong, though. CSJ would probably know better than me.

48th Tactical Fighter Squadron (Wild Cards)

... EF-35s followed behind, with EC-130s, AWACS, JSTARS, and ELINT/SIGINT/COMINT aircraft back even further...

Sorry to butt in, but doesn't the fact that CSJ has EC-130H Compass Call planes present (the EC-130 is a radio jammer) kind of invalidate SC's defensive plan?

...So does the EF-35s and possibly some multirole aircraft :P

EDIT: Also just as a note, I also launched a few radar-desroyign UAVs (Bottle Rockets) specifically at early-warning search radars, plus the cruise missiles at major SAM batteries and early-warning units, so yeah... My HARMs are primarily targeted at SAM search/fire control radars though, with a few still targeted at early warning search radars.

CSJ also fired those Tacit Rainbows, which are actually UAVs that loiters (stays) and find radar transmission to destroy radars, just a note.

Sorry to butt in, but doesn't the fact that CSJ has EC-130H Compass Call planes present (the EC-130 is a radio jammer) kind of invalidate SC's defensive plan?
Like I said, hate to butt in, but without radio communications (or at least, without reliable ones), many - if not all - of SCs men would have been blinded as well, and it's doubtful the artillery synchronization could have been achieved without radio communications. I could just be plain wrong, though. CSJ would probably know better than me.

Well you are right we would not have reliable radio communitcations. This would screw our communications majorly if we didn't use SECNET which isn't a radio communications array, but a digital encoding system that bounces signals off of satallites and not a bunch of radio waves floating around. This would only be messed up if CSJ has used EMP weaponry which to my knowledge he has not.

Well you are right we would not have reliable radio communitcations. This would screw our communications majorly if we didn't use SECNET which isn't a radio communications array, but a digital encoding system that bounces signals off of satallites and not a bunch of radio waves floating around. This would only be messed up if CSJ has used EMP weaponry which to my knowledge he has not.Hmm, still confused a bit. What signals are they exactly? Even GPS satellites emit high-frequency, low power radar signals to "communicate".

Well you are right we would not have reliable radio communitcations. This would screw our communications majorly if we didn't use SECNET which isn't a radio communications array, but a digital encoding system that bounces signals off of satallites and not a bunch of radio waves floating around. This would only be messed up if CSJ has used EMP weaponry which to my knowledge he has not.

Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that unless you have hard line connections to all of the assets, you still have to use radio waves to transmit the data. It can be digitally encoded, but from what I've gathered, it doesn't do squat against jamming, since jamming essentially fills the radio communications with crap, making transmissions - digital or otherwise - undecipherable.

Could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure that there's no good way around jamming.

Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that unless you have hard line connections to all of the assets, you still have to use radio waves to transmit the data. It can be digitally encoded, but from what I've gathered, it doesn't do squat against jamming, since jamming essentially fills the radio communications with crap, making transmissions, digital or otherwise, undecipherable.

Could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure that there's no good way around jamming.

Actually, using the tactical jammign aircraft it is mainly radar. However, the EC-130s could jam enemy transmissions, and possibly even evasdrop on it if it's not encrypted. There's also inserting messages on the RC-135, which I'm going to do. Both of us sent these kinds of SIGNIT aircraft.

To my knowledge SECNET is a digital transmission sent over a line of site lazer beaming system. The signal originates in one place is beamed through a lazer into a waiting satallite in orbit and is then beamed back down through a lazer to the waiting recipient. It is a simple method of effecient communications. Energized beam sending digital date to satallite to guy at laptop with small sending/recieving dish. If you need more ask Sniper Country. It is his specialized military communications system anyways.

To my knowledge SECNET is a digital transmission sent over a line of site lazer beaming system. The signal originates in one place is beamed through a lazer into a waiting satallite in orbit and is then beamed back down through a lazer to the waiting recipient. It is a simple method of effecient communications. Energized beam sending digital date to satallite to guy at laptop with small sending/recieving dish. If you need more ask Sniper Country. It is his specialized military communications system anyways.

Alright, I'll wait for SC to explain. Seems like some kind of weird tech to me.

Also, question to SC, are these special lasers that can travel very far and fast, or normal ones? Also, how could they really "Track" where the satellites are headed so they beam the alser at the right place? Not too bright in these stuff.

It isn't really. Maybe it hasn't come into full development yet. I went to a seminar on a similar technology this summer at the National Youth Leadership Forum on Technoloy (computer geek camp) It involved energized beams in communications satallites. It seemed a relatively logical step in technology. Anyways you should ask SC more aboot it. I just know a little about the tech behind it.

It isn't really. Maybe it hasn't come into full development yet. I went to a seminar on a similar technology this summer at the National Youth Leadership Forum on Technoloy (computer geek camp) It involved energized beams in communications satallites. It seemed a relatively logical step in technology. Anyways you should ask SC more aboot it. I just know a little about the tech behind it.

Hmm, seems very interesting. Thanks for the info anyways,

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Would you people give us a freaking break? I am honestly sorry Barbarosea, OC, and I have very busy lives and do not have all day and night to research our military technology all the time. I am seriously thinking about just sending every aircraft I have in my arsenal to go in with any missile in the world I can think of, and just send them to certain death against your AMRAAM-4000000000s. Then I just want to pull all my men into the sewers and let you people run over us. But wait! You have the UBERRAAM-2384971 that can blow the piss out of the sewers! Darn! Look, all I am saying is that we ain't going to get every freaking thing right, so give us a dang break. Again, sorry we have busy lives, but trying to make at least decent grades for getting some much needed scholarship funds for college is slightly more important than getting everything preciesely right on this game. I ain't an expert on military technology, logistics, or nothing, and I don't dare claim to be.
Hmm... We don't recall to nitpick here every time, nor that we ask you to get everything 100% correct. If you get the wrong impression, then I'm sorry. We are just trying to make the RP more detailed, and since this is a modern tech RP, we are trying to make this to be realistic. After all, we are trying to use our tactics and forces here, and we are trying to make you guys understand.

If you are tired of 5 large posts to respond every time, just say so. We will take that into account. If you feel too limited, I'm sure that this RP could be made more "lax". But after all, our goal is to RP properly here.

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I am sorry if that sounded rash, but I was simply agitated. Stating all the armaments on the jets and stuff is something I, nor OC is good at, but Barbarosea seems to be better at it than us. I am trying to keep it realistic, but it just seems that there is no way getting around anything. I am sure you will establish air superiority. Then all you have to do is level the city. That kills all our troops. All the while you take out our fleets. OC and I are only good at ground warfare, and hardly anything else. I just thought when I got into this RP that it would be some ground warfare, which I only got a real good taste of with Remiesia at the beginning. I have this 'big-book-o-war' (How to Make War by James F. Dunnigan), and have to pull it out every time somebody posts. The knowledge I gather from this book seems to be flawed, as every time I post something involved in this book, the DPICMs for example, it seems to be wrong.

No, I can understand your feelings. If you feel that it is too "limiting", we could do something about it and making you guy feel more "relaxed" at the other two areas. However, we will keeping that not levelling the city n mind. Overall I admit that I do air warfare better than the rest, and I'm claiming to not be an expert at any of these areas, however we will make sure we have some urban warfare fighting fun.

About the book, everyone makes mistakes. The claim about DPICM might be outdated/confusing/wrong/etc. . If you trust the book, use it. Tom Clancy's book ain't flawless, so aren't other books.

Overall, I can understand your frustration, and I hope that CSJ can understand too and we'll hopefully make this war less "limiting" and most of all, confusing.

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SEAD-Supresion of Enemy Air Defence. Combonations of Electronic warfare in order to jam enemy ground base radars, as well as the use of HARMs and AGMs in order to take out SAMs and enemy radars searching for fighters/attack aircraft/etc.

SC, and to everyone in general....

The first fairly full specs on the VA-1 Sentinel have been completed and released (SC, they're in your TM box...sorry for the 3 TMs). These units (after I-don't-want-to-say-how-many months) are soon to be available for warfighting at large. SC has a couple dozen of these units now.

SC, if you want to release what I sent you, feel free.

As a note about my Gatekeeper units (which more than one party has), it should be noted that they have powerful radar arrays and can function similarly to a JSTARS unit in many capacities (even with the dang crew for the mission). The loading is 128 missiles at-ready with a slightly smaller number stowed. You shouldn't be launching/dropping anything larger than a CALCM or with a diameter greater than 1.5 times the diameter of the CALCM (too lazy to check that right now). Just FYI.

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Ahem.
You were upset about our numbers, and we toned it down for you. Then you decide to throw up 550 combat aircraft yourself? If you're combined reserves and allies only amount to even half of that, then we'll be outnumbered, even counting my second wave!
Considering that we only put in about 600 combat aircraft in the first wave, you'll excuse me if I'm a little annoyed. Even if a number of those are helicopters, you've got 330 fighters alone, with another 84 (according to the last count) from Barbarosea, and that's a bit much compared to us, especially when you consider that many of our multirole aircraft are loaded for ground attack. I think that if the numbers are like this, I should have more aircraft up there. Remember, we're the ones who are supposed to be going with a significant numerical advantage here.



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As for the starlight, I'm well aware of it. However, I'm using inertial systems and outside guidance (AWACS, GPS, LPI Radar), so those don't affect us. Since most aircraft are not coming in low, they won't need night vision until they get close to enemy aircraft or their targets, and even then, we'd avoid using it if we don't have to. Simply put, it's too easy for those to be countered, as you're noting yourself.

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On a final note, whatever happened to that fleet that was going after mine?
Believe it or not, I don't mind losing a few carriers. :wink:

About the Starlight thing: understood, although many of my pilots were still low-flying (assuming your Satarlight artillery flare shells can get to a low-medium altitude). Not all are also wearing NVG anyways (wel, not the fighter pilots mostly, but most strike aircraft pilots, yes). So in short, understood, I'll take that into account in the next major post. I still am not sure how NVGs would blind/disable the user's sights, but ah well.

Also, any more info on how the Starlight works exactly except acting as a stronger "version" of flares?

******************

Current Omzian Allied Aircraft Over Honjaksgrad Area

Air Attack Roles
~48 F/A-22C Raptors
~32 F/A-160 Wolverines (Info can be found at link provided earlier)
12x F-14F Tomcat IIs (OMASC thread)
~6 F-15E Strike Eagles (assigned air-to-air roles for various reasons)

SEAD (Radar/SAM-attack/jam) Roles
~20 F/A-160 Wolverine
~12 EF-35A Blazer
~12 F-4G Wild Weasel

Other Ground Attack
~36 F/A-160 Wolverines
~8 AMF-10 Manticore Tank-killers
~8 A-114 Gunslinger
~12/36+* AH-93C Firebirds
~36+* RAH-66A Comanches
~18 A-12C Avenger II Strike aircraft
~24 F-15E Strike Eagles
~2/2* AC-130U Spooky

Other Non-Combat
~12* KC-767 Tankers
~1/3* JSTARS (Ground surveillance)
~6 EC-130 ABCCC (Airborne Command Post)
~6 EC-130 Compass Call (similar as below)
~6 RC-135V Rivet Joint (signal/communication intelligence)
~6 EC-767 AWACS

UAVs

* -- Remaining from Army divisions sent near Honjaksgrad
** Nearby, not necessarily in Honjaksgrad
[All that I can think of/remember right now. If I made a mistake (i.e. number different from said ones), please point it out, thanks]
[Note: Not all will be Rped right now. Rest will be RPed later. Essentially "Taking turns"]

EDIT about aircraft numbers: hmm, with those excessive naval aircraft, mind having a few at least patrolling your naval ships? It is no use for a bunch of aircraft to meet enemy ones while there won't likely be any other patrolling the ships.

About the Starlight thing: understood, although many of my pilots were still low-flying (assuming your Satarlight artillery flare shells can get to a low-medium altitude). Not all are also wearing NVG anyways (wel, not the fighter pilots mostly, but most strike aircraft pilots, yes). So in short, understood, I'll take that into account in the next major post. I still am not sure how NVGs would blind/disable the user's sights, but ah well.

Also, any more info on how the Starlight works exactly except acting as a stronger "version" of flares?
The illumination from the starlight would affect everything in the area. So long as they were deployed in front of the aircraft and at the right altitude, they might do something. However, I doubt they'd go above a few hundred meters, and any aircraft at medium altitude would be pretty much unaffected.
He's not quite right about the sensors, as most will be protected against such things, so will only be temporarily blinded. I'm guessing that it's just confusion from thinking of aircraft sensors as being like those used by infantry and helicopter pilots, which isn't quite the case.


As for my aircraft, I might as well, though I may change this later if it's not even.

1st Wave Air Combat
36 F/A-22C Raptor
36 F/A-23C Black Widow II
108 F-35A JSF

1st Wave SEAD
32 EF-35A JSF
36 F-35A JSF

1st Wave Ground Attack
54 A-114 Gunslinger
36 F-35A JSF


2nd Wave Air Combat
18 F/A-22C Raptor
18 F-23C Black Widow II
90 F-35A JSF

2nd Wave Ground Attack
54 A-114 Gunslinger
72 F-35A JSF

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Ack! I just whipped out the handy dandy calculator and looked at my numbers. Honestly, very sorry about that. You can check them now and see if they are any better. Honestly, I don't know what I was thinking when I posted those numbers.

Ah, thanks. Hopefully we can make the number continued to be undisputed.

I just felt like posting the Starlight thing, not necessarily to get more damages from you. I just felt like sounding kinda-sorta military tech savvy, which I guess still didn't work. I will, however, sound military smart at one point by the time this is over.

Well, you certainly did employ a tactic to especially cause the hell out of my bomber pilots wearing NVs as their sole tool to really navigate! Anyways, congrats.

Ack! I just whipped out the handy dandy calculator and looked at my numbers. Honestly, very sorry about that. You can check them now and see if they are any better. Honestly, I don't know what I was thinking when I posted those numbers.

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Those aircraft are the ones over Hon, not all of them. I have a few over our fleets, also.

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I just felt like posting the Starlight thing, not necessarily to get more damages from you. I just felt like sounding kinda-sorta military tech savvy, which I guess still didn't work. I will, however, sound military smart at one point by the time this is over.

----

I don't know really what happened to that fleet I sent out. I still don't know if they would be even close to your fleet, or anything like that. Right now I guess they are really sitting ducks- they are too far away (I presume) to do anything to your fleets, while too far away to really get back in time to defend against the air attack on our fleets. I don't know if I should try and attempt to attack your fleet, which will end in utter decimation, or to bring them back as fast as possible to try and help our fleets, which would be utterly pointless.
Yeah, that's quite a bit better. Now I just have to figure out how I'm going to survive 108 SAM Batteries (that's 300-800+ launchers for any that like to count).

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I figured those weren't the only ones, which was why I was upset about it.

--------

You did a good job with the starlights. Honestly, I almost missed the whole thing about how it wouldn't affect the sensors. If Omz hadn't asked, I probably would have RPed it :P

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I'd actually really like to lose a few carriers. You see, I'm planning on completely restructuring my military after the war, and that includes a reduction of my fleet by 5 nuclear carriers. It's a bit easier to explain that if a few sink. Besides, I'll likely be returning the favor later on with those Crossbolt missiles. As for my fleet, the one that launched the attack on AMF's fleet would still be alone right now. That only consists of a single carrier battle group, with another joining up. Considering the size and composition of your fleet, you could get close and do some damage, and like I said, I would allow the two carriers to go down. The only other unit in that area is a bombardment squadron (2 Toryus, 4 Hiragis, and 2 Arsenal Ships), as everything else is on escort duty.
I never RPed detecting them as I wasn't sure which of my fleets they were going after (I still have over half a dozen separate fleets out, three of which have been specified in the RP), and my query as to which one it was never got answered. Probably lost in the sea of huge posts :P

Hmm... I will probably deploy some of my light carriers too. Doesn't like living on limitations with small carriers instead of large ones. I also need some Hiragis to be sunk, too many gun cruisers. :P

And plus a dreadnaught or two.

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Post War Sniper Country:

Liberal uprising. Civil war. Death of John Philips. Possible death of David Howe and Mark Spitz. Fall into anarchy. Liberals finally destroyed. Years restoring prosperity. More years putting together a decent military. Jungles decreased to 84% of the nation. (This is if we lose the war.)

*Nods*. Put into account. I also do have some post-war plans for my nation (restoration of a 100% democratic government, getting rid of military control over government, major reforms, etc.)

I thought the SAMs couldn't work because of the jammers.

Even so, not all are going to be jammed to the state that they will not work. For fairness, I suppose that CSJ and I could have some enemy SAM batteries working, so yeah...

I might send my fleet to take on that one. Still contemplating it. Actually... is that fleet based anywhere near Port Hagras?

I don't believe that there are any major naval assets near Port Hagras, but my naval assets will move there soon. An attack from the south.

EDIT: No, they are just a supply of missiles. Obviously, not all are going to be used. That's just crazy.

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3) Hagras is open... I hate it when OC is right.

Even though Port Hagras' is empty of major naval assets, it is heavily defended since the city was very military-influenced in a way (won't go over detail into that unless on request). There will be (obviously) more army presence there, plus a lot of air force aircraft.

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Barbarosean Air Over Honjaksgrad:
Air-To-Air
30 Z-1c's
24 Z-4's

JSF
16 Z-8's

Other
10 J-2's
5 Z-5's
3 KC-130's
2 Z-2's

I'll post my post this afternoon, cuz I g2g to school now.

Oh yes, I know Hagras is a military city. Go into depth, if you wouldn't mind. OC just had a plan on Hagras that I found laughable, until about five minutes ago- even with the massive military installations and aircraft.

Bascially Port Hagras was a city with the Omzian Armed Forces (now called Omzian Homeland Defense Forces -- OHDF) central command until a few NS years ago due to security reasons. Everything was there, until the Omzian military decided to move its headquarters to Kanze -- a city not far from the heavily-defended capital. Since Port Hagras still has a few command centers especially for the Navy and Air Force, and has army bases, air strips, and naval docks for patrol vessels (missile-armed corvettes and hydrogen-powered subs, in this case), it is heavily defended also, as said. Especially in times of war, and being closer to Honjaksgrad than Osaria/Vansara/etc., it has a lot of army reserve forces "integrated" into the civilian population, patrolling places the enemy could get advantage of: subway tunnels, railway tunnels, sewers, connected public bunker systems (nearly every major city in Omz222 has subways and some form of bunker systems), depots, etc. There will also be 24 hour patrol by the Army, Navy, and Air Force in this time, so yeah... There's also military checkpoints now replacing the civilian ones, due to the war, highways and railways are also sealed off. There are also a few mines placed near unused waterways, incase the enemy tries an amphibious assualt. Simply, entering the city will not be extra hard, but get control of it this time will.

Now, if you don't mind, I'd like to hear about your/OC's plan :P

Oh yes, I know Hagras is a military city. Go into depth, if you wouldn't mind. OC just had a plan on Hagras that I found laughable, until about five minutes ago- even with the massive military installations and aircraft.

Bascially Port Hagras was a city with the Omzian Armed Forces (now called Omzian Homeland Defense Forces -- OHDF) central command until a few NS years ago due to security reasons. Everything was there, until the Omzian military decided to move its headquarters to Kanze -- a city not far from the heavily-defended capital. Since Port Hagras still has a few command centers especially for the Navy and Air Force, and has army bases, air strips, and naval docks for patrol vessels (missile-armed corvettes and hydrogen-powered subs, in this case), it is heavily defended also, as said. Especially in times of war, and being closer to Honjaksgrad than Osaria/Vansara/etc., it has a lot of army reserve forces "integrated" into the civilian population, patrolling places the enemy could get advantage of: subway tunnels, railway tunnels, sewers, connected public bunker systems (nearly every major city in Omz222 has subways and some form of bunker systems), depots, etc. There will also be 24 hour patrol by the Army, Navy, and Air Force in this time, so yeah... There's also military checkpoints now replacing the civilian ones, due to the war, highways and railways are also sealed off. There are also a few mines placed near unused waterways, incase the enemy tries an amphibious assualt. Simply, entering the city will not be extra hard, but get control of it this time will.

Now, if you don't mind, I'd like to hear about your/OC's plan :P

You see a young man typing on a keyboard and looking at a site called nationstates. He is laughing evilly.

3) Hagras is open... I hate it when OC is right.

Even though Port Hagras' is empty of major naval assets, it is heavily defended since the city was very military-influenced in a way (won't go over detail into that unless on request). There will be (obviously) more army presence there, plus a lot of air force aircraft.
Hagras isn't exactly devoid of naval assets. Remember, I'm coming from the southwest myself, and that's one of the most logical places to unload. I have about 20 submarines in the general area, with more on the way and some notable fleets moving up with the transports.
I'd also think it would be a major unloading spot for my transport aircraft, but I never stated so specifically as I was never given a specific place to land . . .

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Also, note on getting to Port Hagras. As seen on the map, Port Hagras is partically surrounded by land, therefore forming a gulf/strait/whatever, the Gulf of Hagras. However, getting into Gulf of Hagras (in order to put men on the beach of Port Hagras or areas nearby) will be difficult, since the gulf will be constantly scanned by aircraft and patrol watercraft for enemy ships. There will also be coastal defence gun batteries (mainly 12 inch ones) provided by CSJ at the start of the war there, so will be mobile Shinma anti-ship missile launchers.

On the Honjaksgrad front however, there will be new Omzian warships coming from the north, and approx. 80,000-100,000 army reserve+active troops in some Mech. Infantry and Armored divisions that will surround Honjaksgrad at the suburb areas very soon, aside from the remaining 10,000 that is keeping on guard (rest are pulled back/damaged).

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If you don't mind, could you tell them to hurry up? The air war is boring the crap out of our ground forces.

After you reply :P

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1) How can you just know where the PMADS are? I have no real problem with the whole MARS or MGRS, but how on the PMADS?

Umm... It fired on the jammers you were describing? Of course, I as actually using sorta a version of the Wild Weasel tactic: have SAMs chase the EF-35As, and when the SAMs fire on it, my F-4Gs locates the sources and fires on the SAMs. I could take the A-12 bomb PMADS part out. I was under the impression that it was not hid (i.e. can be spotted by satellites/etc.), btut ah well. My mistake, sorry about that.

2) Can I just go ahead and say you destroyed the air forces and won the air war?

Although my goals are still to win the war, I'd have to say no. But if you want the ground war quickly (your best area :wink: ), I guess we could make the air war shorter, and therefore, one side will win it quickly.

3) FYI: The MGRS aren't exactly a SAM system. More like a SSM system.
Got it. Is it more like a system that can engage both aircraft/ground targets like the ADATS?

4) The PMADS weren't, nor do I think they have at all, fired at the EF-35As. Only the jamming thingies.
You mean that EC-130 CSJ/Ferrussia mentioned? Well, I admit, I was also confused (EF-35As also jam radars), and got that under the wrong impression.

5) How can your F/A-22Cs be chasing my jets, when my jets are going at yours head-on? My jets are trying to get entangled within yours.
Ah, my mistake. I was origionally under the impression of you are leaving, but after I read the whole thing for a third time, I edited my post. Well, guess I didn't edit that part :oops:

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Even so, only seven PMADS fired. They are hid by such things as rubble and/or trees and such. I mean, they're just not sitting out in the open anywhere. It's okay, my mistake also.

Understood, but still just a note, my F-4G attack on the PMADS (in reply of the firing on the "jammers") still stands. Yeah...

Heh, I might do that, but might not. Granted, my air posts will be more or less, "The F-13Bs lock on and shoot some missiles at the enemy fighters."

Well, that's not eactly what I meant. We could speed up the air war by finishing operations quickly, more and more fighters leave, more losses taken by both sides, etc. But even at this time, we still should do the post a bit detailed, just for the heck of RPing.

MGRS is more/less a secret thing. It is a ground/extremely low-flying radar. It detects ground things, such as armor (tanks, artillery). Although it doesn't really work when there are hills in the area, and they are serving very little use in the city except to spot low-flying aircraft.
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One thing- the MARS and MGRS are not defense systems. They are actual mobile radar installations. They transfer info to the FCCs, SYNOP, and the PMADS.
Hmm...

You should told us earlier :P Ah well, not a problem anyways. Do they also serve as an early warning radar? Also, are the PMADS the only SAM units/air defence units you have in the area?

I don't know what they shot at, just four separate jammers in the air. Could have been yours.

Since I haven't really RPed my EC-130s arrival, if you are OK with it, I'll stick with the EF-35As being hit. The EC-130 wouldn't do much anyways, especially when I want the air war to be done (at least over Honjaksgrad, which is delaying ground ops).

No problem. Our fighters are about opposite from the ground forces. The ground forces like to engage the enemy from farther away, while the air forces are mainly trained in dogfighting.

Got it. Different methods, hmm...

Omz! Have you totally forgotten about me or something?!

Omz! Have you totally forgotten about me or something?!
No, I'm going to use your specops in the ground stage of the war (attacking Honjaksgrad), don't worry.

Sorry for the lack of response though :P

The Airmada kept making its way closer and closer to the city. They were 500km from the city, and had to cut it to 250km before they would be launching. The B-2s carried twenty G2s each, TR-2s carried thirty two G2s each, and the F-117Ds carried sixteen G2s each. In all, they totalled twenty B-2s, twenty eight TR-2s, and twenty F-117Ds, meaning 1616 G2 SCMs would be fired from the Airmada. The massive pounding would be mainly concentrated on the coastal defense missile systems and batteries, but also airfields and any military installations that could be found. If none could be found, the G2s would simply wander into the city, exploding wherever they so hit.


Not meaning to stir up some massive ignore, but in my knowledge that the G2s are rated more than 1000lbs in terms of total weight. Unless these "missiles" are more like small standoff weapons, I don't see how a F-117 can carry 20 of them, while B-2s can also carry 20 of them (B-2s are typically the bomber with a small load in the USAF.)

F-117A: Typical load is 2 Mk.84 2000lb bombs (total: 4000lb). Bomb bay typically only holds 2 pieces of munitions, possibly more for cluster bombs
B-2: Typical load:
Nuclear: 16 AGM-129 ACM (3700lb stealth nuclear missile)/16 AGM-131 SRAM 2 (2000lb)
Percision: "8-16" AGM-154 JSOW (standoff glide bomb, 1065lb) or 8 AGM-137 TSSAM (approx 2000lbs with 1000lb warhead, stealth standoff missile) or 16 AGM-158 JASSM.

Not only weight is an issue, the capacity accepted would also be an issue.

Because of that, typically if you want stealth, you lose load. The B-1B

A note on the Gatos:

I'll accept a few losses for the sake of balancing, but in reality, the Gatos are virtually useless in offensive operations. They simply don't have the speed to catch up to any modern vessel without surfacing, and even then, they're too slow for most. Battery power is also quite limited, and they can only maintain top submerged speed for a few hours, so there's no way they wouldn't be detected in time to evade. They also have third-rate detection and fire control systems (remember, these are WWII veterans, not modern boats).
Gatos, like virtually all diesel-electric submarines, are really good only for ambushes. Intercepting an enemy fleet that you can't get in the path of really requires nuclear subs.

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