NationStates Jolt Archive

Did you miss the part in the article where the supreme court called it discriminatory?

Let's say, for example, that Muslims in the UK become a majority and then choose to have this law. They then start systematically voting to remove citizenship from non-Muslims.

Would this be allright with you?

It would, because tbh it's never going happen. Islam will never become the major religion of the west. Beside in the Magna Carta it says
FIRST, THAT WE HAVE GRANTED TO GOD, and by this present charter have confirmed for us and our heirs in perpetuity, that the English Church shall be free, and shall have its rights undiminished, and its liberties unimpaired

This country is Christian. Though I am not one I still believe that this country should be run on the foundations Laid by the church.

It would, because tbh it's never going happen. Islam will never become the major religion of the west. Beside in the Magna Carta it says


This country is Christian. Though I am not one I still believe that this country should be run on the foundations Laid by the church.

I'm not discussing the current situation. I am discussing a hypothetical one.

Now, do you think that it would be allright for Muslims (or Anglicans) to vote that those who don't follow their religion get deported?

Did you miss the part in the article where the supreme court called it discriminatory?

Let's say, for example, that Muslims in the UK become a majority and then choose to have this law. They then start systematically voting to remove citizenship from non-Muslims.

Would this be allright with you?
I don't think it would really matter. If this country was muslim majority there's certainly a chance an islamic state (Or at elast something approaching it) would probably end up being pushed through by any means necessary, including force of arms or more likely through government cowardice. Wether or not we have some constitution which prevents this is irrelevant, constitutions aren't a magic bullet.

I don't think it would really matter. If this country was muslim majority an islamic state would probably end up being pushed through by any means necessary, including force of arms. Wether or not we have some constitution which prevents this is irrelevant, constitutions aren't a magic bullet.

Both Indonesia and Turkey have Muslim majorities. Neither is a Muslim state. So, precisely why do think a majority Mulsim Britain woud end up a Muslim state?

I'm not discussing the current situation. I am discussing a hypothetical one.

Now, do you think that it would be allright for Muslims (or Anglicans) to vote that those who don't follow their religion get deported?

Not because of their religions. But all those immigrants who came into the(and their Descendents) post 1948

Not because of their religions. But all those immigrants who came into the(and their Descendents) post 1948

Can you just, you know, answer the question?

I don't think it would really matter. If this country was muslim majority there's certainly a chance an islamic state (Or at elast something approaching it) would probably end up being pushed through by any means necessary, including force of arms or more likely through government cowardice. Wether or not we have some constitution which prevents this is irrelevant, constitutions aren't a magic bullet.

So what if they do? You said that the country should be ruled by majority. Would you still support that if you weren't in the majority?

Both Indonesia and Turkey have Muslim majorities. Neither is a Muslim state. So, precisely why do think a majority Mulsim Britain woud end up a Muslim state?

Because they buy into the media hype that the only Muslims existing in Europe and Britain are all disaffected and disenfranchised jihadis who are part of the Grand Caliphate Conspiracy™.

Can you just, you know, answer the question?

I thought I already had. Some predict that with in the the next 20years we will have an Islamic government. While others think that within the next 20years the BNP will be in power. I side with the later. Particularly around were I live their is a good deal of BNP members (I know because I down loaded that list of people who are members). I think that (especially if there is a repeat of 7/7) that more and more people will vote for them. If this happens then there is no chance of an Islamic state.

To answer your question in one word- no.

I would not side with the Muslims (or Anglicans) in deporting people for their faiths (especially as I fall under neither category).

Because they buy into the media hype that the only Muslims existing in Europe and Britain are all disaffected and disenfranchised jihadis who are part of the Grand Caliphate Conspiracy™.

Who do you mean by they? I do not believe that all Muslims are terrorists.

Unless you think Hotwife is European, I am not really sure what you are talking about. There was that racist troll yesterday but that is certainly not typical of European attitudes to Muslims.

Exactly; most of the talk about "Muslims destroying Europe" comes from America.

....

To answer your question in one word- no.

I would not side with the Muslims (or Anglicans) in deporting people for their faiths (especially as I fall under neither category).

But you would allow it for non-Muslims.

Why do you support the same behaviour from non-Muslims that you would not support from Muslims?

Correct. The people that fail to integrate are just mostly muslims - which is why people tend to associate the religion with the problem. Especially since the media rarely mentions something positive.

And they rarely mention the violence caused by Christian extremists.

But you would allow it for non-Muslims.

Why do you support the same behaviour from non-Muslims that you would not support from Muslims?

I mentioned Anglicans as well, I would not agree with them doing it either. Nor with any group deporting people due to their religions. How many times do I have to answer you until you are satisfied?

Both Indonesia and Turkey have Muslim majorities. Neither is a Muslim state. So, precisely why do think a majority Mulsim Britain woud end up a Muslim state?

Because there have already been several calls for Sharia law in this country already. including one from the archbishop.

Exactly; most of the talk about "Muslims destroying Europe" comes from America.

On a nonsequitur tangent of the slightest matching tempo, Meir Kahane was originally from Brooklyn. Take that as you will.

And they rarely mention the violence caused by Christian extremists.

I explain that phenomenon with the Ebil Mozlem Theorem in my signature.

Because there have already been several calls for Sharia law in this country already. including one from the archbishop.

There's occasional calls for Sharial Law in Indonesia, but that's no reason to panic. People are entitled to call for whatever political change they want.

Both Indonesia and Turkey have Muslim majorities. Neither is a Muslim state. So, precisely why do think a majority Mulsim Britain woud end up a Muslim state?
I didn't read that post as saying a Muslim majority WOULD necessarily do that, but rather as posing the hypothetical, WHAT IF they did (would that then be OK since the majority can do what it likes)?

I mentioned Anglicans as well, I would not agree with them doing it either. Nor with any group deporting people due to their religions. How many times do I have to answer you until you are satisfied?

You argued that the electorate should be allowed to vote on whether someone gets to be a citizen.

You then argued that a Muslim or Anglican electorate should not be allowed to vote on whether someone gets to be a citizen. Obviously, religion is an issue.

Why should the reasons behind it matter? If a majority decides, that should be all that matters.

There's occasional calls for Sharial Law in Indonesia, but that's no reason to panic. People are entitled to call for whatever political change they want.

Yeah but the Archbishop? I mean come on he's the head of the C of E, how can he do such a thing?

And then you get the other end of the scale, you get scum like Omar Bakri telling us to submit to Sharia law.

On a nonsequitur tangent of the slightest matching tempo, Meir Kahane was originally from Brooklyn. Take that as you will.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvJPZM2hvjY

You argued that the electorate should be allowed to vote on whether someone gets to be a citizen.

You then argued that a Muslim or Anglican electorate should not be allowed to vote on whether someone gets to be a citizen. Obviously, religion is an issue.

Why should the reasons behind it matter? If a majority decides, that should be all that matters.

It has to be in context. No one should be discriminated against because of their religion. It is a persons Nationality I was talking about, and so were the Swiss.

Not because of their religions. But all those immigrants who came into the(and their Descendents) post 1948

I somewhat doubt that the descendants of the italian immigrants would vote for Britain to become a sharia country.

I somewhat doubt that the descendants of the italian immigrants would vote for Britain to become a sharia country.

As do I. But if the BNP get into power they wouldn't be able to, infact they wouldn't even be here.

It has to be in context. No one should be discriminated against because of their religion. It is a persons Nationality I was talking about, and so were the Swiss.

So, in context, if Muslim immigrants outnumbered natural-born British, and they voted to deport all natural-born British, you would not have a problem with that because majority rules?

The perception of the "Muslim Problem in Europe" comes mostly from the actions of a bunch of extremists who, whilst not representative of the majority of Muslims, are oftentimes not differentiated sufficiently from them.

Whilst involving a small number of misguided individuals, this is NOT a problem that is imaginary. Muslim extremists did carry out terror attacks in London. When I was working in Amsterdam, a Moroccan Muslim DID stab and shoot an independent film maker because he felt that the man's films were critical of Islam. This didn't occur in a ghetto - it happened in a picturesque part of the city center.

Some cultural differences can easily be absorbed into the mainstream 'variances' that are simply viewed as part of life's rich tapestry. Other differences, however, are irreducible and cause the kind of talk that's been highlighted elsewhere in this thread. It is obvious that neither social group likes the image of itself that the other seems to hold.

For example, Westerners tend to react in amused surprise when Western Muslims claim to be oppressed. Eyebrows are raised and comparisons made to the Arab Muslim States - which seem not to permit the usual range of human rights or indeed ANY rights if you happen to have the bad luck to be born with female genitalia. We also recoil from tales that the Asian Muslim states have revived the practice of Suttee - burning alive of the wife with her dead husband.

The Muslim dresscode also causes isses. It seems insane to the Westerner that someone would dress in so distinctive a fashion as the Burqa and then be surprised that it causes them to be singled out. To the Western mind the Burqa screams a plea for isolationism - it states that the wearer does not want ANYTHING to do with the rest of society. "We are different. We are apart. We want nothing to do with you. We want you to know nothing about us, and we want to know nothing about you."

The majority of Muslims in the West seem to stand silent about issues like this - leaving the media space to be occupied by the extremists on both sides. The key to resolving this is greater communication between the moderates on both sides of the equation. Muslim Moderates have been inviting Westerners to get to know them better - believing that the tension is spawned by fear of the unknown. Greater communication will remove these barriers, it is thought, promoting greater understanding which will lead to harmony.

However, it is interesting that the influx of Buddhists has not caused the same sorts of problems.

As do I. But if the BNP get into power they wouldn't be able to, infact they wouldn't even be here.

Why not? I thought the BNP would only deport criminal non-white persons, and give financial incentive for other immigrants to leave country.

However, it is interesting that the influx of Buddhists has not caused the same sorts of problems.

I would venture to say that this has, perhaps, something to do with the role religion plays on both groups. Buddhism is a religion of peace. Islam is a more hands-on religion, more "war-like".

I would venture to say that this has, perhaps, something to do with the role religion plays on both groups. Buddhisim is a religion of peace. Islam is a more hands-on religion, more "war-like".

Buddhism is more of a philosophy, it does not claim divinity.

Orthodox Islam on the other hand, is a religion that supposedly encompasses every aspect of life and society, which includes law and politics.

I would venture to say that this has, perhaps, something to do with the role religion plays on both groups. Buddhisim is a religion of peace. Islam is a more hands-on religion, more "war-like".

Islam is an Abrahamic religion, with the sordid history that comes with it. In addition, if a vast majority of the Buddhists were living in a similar state of disenfranchised disaffectation like a good number of European Muslims seem to be, reports of Buddhists committing crimes would be no different statistically. Just hushed up by the Western Media because of the Ebil Mozlem Theorem.

Buddhism is more of a philosophy, it does not claim divinity.

Orthodox Islam on the other hand, is a religion that supposedly encompasses every aspect of life and society, which includes law and politics.

Which would explain the peaceful approach Buddhists have. That diferentiates them greatly from Muslims.

It has to be in context. No one should be discriminated against because of their religion. It is a persons Nationality I was talking about, and so were the Swiss.

Yes. The Swiss were talking about nationality.

A swiss politician proposed a bill that said that communities could vote to decide whether an immigrant could become a naturalised citizen.

You said that the UK should do something similar.

But what if the UK was an Islamic nation? Do you think the UK should still do something similar? You said no. Because people should not be discriminated against because of their religion.

I have another question for you: Let's say the UK did as you suggested and passed this kind of law. Now the UKers get to vote on whether or not Abdul Mohammed Hussein gets to be a citizen. So they vote, and they decide not to let him in because he's a Muslim.

Now you said that people should not be discriminated against because of their religion, so this is wrong, according to you. But if we don't let the people vote the way they want to, that's also wrong.

What do you do?

So, in context, if Muslim immigrants outnumbered natural-born British, and they voted to deport all natural-born British, you would not have a problem with that because majority rules?
Yes obviously as I am a "natural-born British" person. But why should I leave the country that one side of my family have live in for nearly 1,000 years? Besides Muslim Immigrants will never out number "natural-born British" people. And Even if they did what gives them the right to through us out? People who in my opinion have no right to be here should not be able to vote at all.
Why not? I thought the BNP would only deport criminal non-white persons, and give financial incentive for other immigrants to leave country.

No, all Immigrants(and their descendent's) post 1948

Yes obviously as I am a "natural-born British" person. But why should I leave the country that one side of my family have live in for nearly 1,000 years? Besides Muslim Immigrants will never out number "natural-born British" people. And Even if they did what gives them the right to through us out? People who in my opinion have no right to be here should not be able to vote at all.

I knew a bard in Germany who sang more or less like this.

And Even if they did what gives them the right to through us out?

I do not know; do you think Native Americans should throw Europeans out?

I knew a bard in Germany who sang more or less like this.

Yes, I knew the bloke. He was an artist, was he not?

But why should I leave the country that one side of my family have live in for nearly 1,000 years?

Because the majority voted you out, and majority rules, right?

Besides Muslim Immigrants will never out number "natural-born British" people.

Given the demographic information regarding the birth rate of Muslim immigrants versus natural born British, they will eventually.

And Even if they did what gives them the right to through us out? People who in my opinion have no right to be here should not be able to vote at all.

They have the right to vote currently. Unless the present majority votes away their right to vote, then they'll presumably still have the right to vote when they gain the majority.

You carefully avoided actually answering the question. Would you still believe that majority rules if you weren't part of the majority, and the majority used its power against you?

Yes, I knew the bloke. He was an artist, was he not?

Yup. Not a very good painter, until I heard him sing, then I wished with all my heart he'd go back to painting.

Islam is an Abrahamic religion, with the sordid history that comes with it. In addition, if a vast majority of the Buddhists were living in a similar state of disenfranchised disaffectation like a good number of European Muslims seem to be, reports of Buddhists committing crimes would be no different statistically. Just hushed up by the Western Media because of the Ebil Mozlem Theorem.

This is more the case, I'd say. It just happens that Buddhist demographic and migration patterns differ from Muslim ones in Europe. The idea that Buddhists are somehow a more "peaceful" people is nonsense; the religion has had its fair share of violence and atrocity, as well. Buddhist and Muslims are both people, and people have some foul and brutish tendencies, especially when the environment is right.

Yup. Not a very good painter, until I heard him sing, then I wished with all my heart he'd go back to painting.

At least he was infatuated with that fine music of Wagner's.

At least he was infatuated with that fine music of Wagner's.

Or vice-versa?

Because the majority voted you out, and majority rules, right?Not if their Immigrants, they shouldn't count as citizens.



Given the demographic information regarding the birth rate of Muslim immigrants versus natural born British, they will eventually.

All the more reason to tighten immigration laws and vote BNP.

They have the right to vote currently. Unless the present majority votes away their right to vote, then they'll presumably still have the right to vote when they gain the majority.
Or if the BNP comes in to power

You carefully avoided actually answering the question. Would you still believe that majority rules if you weren't part of the majority, and the majority used its power against you?
Yes, unless they were immigrants
I knew a bard in Germany who sang more or less like this.
I'm not even going to dignify this with a proper answer.
But I do know of people who questioned that bard, and we all know how that ended.:p

I'm not even going to dignify this with a proper answer.
But I do know of people who questioned that bard, and we all know how that ended.:p

Yeah. With him taking cyanide in humiliating defeat and his name being reviled forever due to his evil actions.

Do you have a point?

snip dodging

So, majority rules, as long as it's your carefully defined majority?

What if the Muslims became citizens?

This is more the case, I'd say. It just happens that Buddhist demographic and migration patterns differ from Muslim ones in Europe. The idea that Buddhists are somehow a more "peaceful" people is nonsense; the religion has had its fair share of violence and atrocity, as well. Buddhist and Muslims are both people, and people have some foul and brutish tendencies, especially when the environment is right.

Islam is easier to abuse than Buddhism.

Because there have already been several calls for Sharia law in this country already. including one from the archbishop.
Once again, I'd suggest a bit of research into (a) what Sharia actually is, and (b) the use of external arbitrators in the UK civil courts.

And Even if they did what gives them the right to through us out? People who in my opinion have no right to be here should not be able to vote at all.
How do legal immigrants have any less 'right' to be in the UK than legal citizens?



Why not? I thought the BNP would only deport criminal non-white persons, and give financial incentive for other immigrants to leave country.
I'm sure the BNP would give up any pretence of sticking to a manifesto or acting as representatives of the UK people they ever to get their mitts on power.



Buddhism is a religion of peace. Islam is a more hands-on religion, more "war-like".
Islam is easier to abuse than Buddhism.
The history of the Orient shows the above to be quite mistaken.

The history of the Orient shows the above to be quite mistaken.

If you wouldn't mind, please correct any of my misconceptions.


My comment stems from the fact that Buddhism was largely complementary, syncretic form of religion, whereas other God religions were "absolute" ideologies. I am not familiar with early Buddhist history though. 17th century Japanese Christian persecution for example, had less to do with Buddhism than it did with God worship.

I can't think of any extremely violent schisms between Buddhist sects, like it were between Sunni and Shia states.

Another modern-day example would be the basis of jihadist ideologies, where Muhammad's war years verses are incorrectly used to justify their war against non-believers. I don't think Buddhism has such text.

If you wouldn't mind, please correct any of my misconceptions.
This (http://www.sangam.org/articles/view/?id=118) short text by Bernard Faure, Professor of Religious Studies at Stanford, highlights how Buddhist teachings certainly don't preclude their followers from violence, though they are often compatible with a nonviolent message. The early history of Buddhism, especially when its growing influence jarred with other religious followers, is tinged with violence.

This (http://www.sangam.org/articles/view/?id=118) short text by Bernard Faure, Professor of Religious Studies at Stanford, highlights how Buddhist teachings certainly don't preclude their followers from violence, though they are often compatible with a nonviolent message. The early history of Buddhism, especially when its growing influence jarred with other religious followers, is tinged with violence.

Thank you for the link. I wish the article made a more extensive elaboration on Buddhist regional transformation in the sociological context, or mentioned further readings in militant Buddhism.


On a sidenote, what do you think of Karen Armstrong?

Once again, I'd suggest a bit of research into (a) what Sharia actually is, and (b) the use of external arbitrators in the UK civil courts.
This whole sorry business will teach Williams not to be an academic. It's rather sad, really.

As do I. But if the BNP get into power they wouldn't be able to, infact they wouldn't even be here.

Does the BNP think Italians are Muslim? My.

Does the BNP think Italians are Muslim? My.

It has nothing to do with religion.
They will halt immigration, deport all criminal and illegal immigrants and do the voluntary deportation thing that someone said. But I have a friend, who has a friend who is in the BNP, and he thinks that if within a year to 18 months all immigrants (and their descendent's) who have not left will be forcedly thrown out.

It has nothing to do with religion.

Bullshit. The BNP are even more Islamophobic than I am, and they want all Muslims to be thrown out. They haven't got a problem with white immigrations.

They will halt immigration

No they won't.

deport all criminal and illegal immigrants

That's what all governments do.

But I have a friend, who has a friend who is in the BNP, and he thinks that if within a year to 18 months all immigrants (and their descendent's) who have not left will be forcedly thrown out.

He's in the BNP, and therefore an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about. Also, how long does it take before someone stops being the descendant of an immigrant? 3 generations? 10? 25?

Bullshit. The BNP are even more Islamophobic than I am, and they want all Muslims to be thrown out. They haven't got a problem with white immigrations.
Of course they're Islamophobic. Virtually everyone in Britain is to a certain extent, though most will deny it. But they are against immigration as a whole, not just Muslims. They do have a problem with white immigration.


No they won't.
Read up- http://bnp.org.uk/policies-2/immigration/


That's what all governments do.
No they don't. Abu Qatadar for 1. That pole who killed a family in a car crash.
Abu Hamza. I could name more.

He's in the BNP, and therefore an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about. Also, how long does it take before someone stops being the descendant of an immigrant? 3 generations? 10? 25?
That's a bit of a sweeping generalization don't you think. I'm sure that there are plenty of intelligent members.

As for your question, I don't no how long it is before someone stops being a descendent of an immigrant, but one of the BNP's main goals is to deport all who came after 1948. So I guess they consider it from then.

Of course they're Islamophobic. Virtually everyone in Britain is to a certain extent, though most will deny it.

Rubbish.

Read up- http://bnp.org.uk/policies-2/immigration/

I stand corrected

No they don't. Abu Qatadar for 1. That pole who killed a family in a car crash.
Abu Hamza.

That's 3 examples, and the House of Lords have decided to deport Abu Qatada.

That's a bit of a sweeping generalization don't you think. I'm sure that there are plenty of intelligent members.

No. No there aren't. They are racist, xenophobic, wannabe Nazi, irrationally Islamophobic morons.

As for your question, I don't no how long it is before someone stops being a descendent of an immigrant, but one of the BNP's main goals is to deport all who came after 1948. So I guess they consider it from then.

And you say they're not stupid?

-snip-

One of the very few times I agree with you.
*feels lightheaded*


No they don't. Abu Qatadar for 1.
The government wanted to deport Abu Qatadar. The European Court of Human Rights is looking at the appeal lodged by him. What's hard to understand about that?

That pole who killed a family in a car crash.
The Pole, who is a citizen of an EU Member State? Brush up on how the EU works in the field of criminal law: http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj/criminal/fsj_criminal_intro_en.htm

Abu Hamza.
Was wanted in Yemen. However he wasn't going to get a fair trial there, so the government had to, you know, abide by the law and not deport him? (Human Rights Act 1998, European Convention on Human Rights etc)

I could name more.
Please do.
That's a bit of a sweeping generalization don't you think. I'm sure that there are plenty of intelligent members.
Intelligent maybe. Smart.... ehhhh.

As for your question, I don't no how long it is before someone stops being a descendent of an immigrant, but one of the BNP's main goals is to deport all who came after 1948. So I guess they consider it from then.
Your Empire. Your consequences.

Rubbish.

You said yourself that you were Islamopobic. every one has slight prejudices towards Muslims since 9/11 and 7/7.





That's 3 examples, and the House of Lords have decided to deport Abu Qatada.
But were overturned by the ECHR. The BNP would leave the EU if in power and stp wasting money and having to abide by they're rules. I know that the Human rights act is British law, but so what. If the man is wanted in place's he might not get a fair trial, then that is his fault not the British Government's.


No. No there aren't. They are racist, xenophobic, wannabe Nazi, irrationally Islamophobic morons.
Not Nazis- Nationalists. And they are not afraid of foreigners, they just don't want them here. And there is nothing irrational about it.



Please do.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/023274.php

Intelligent maybe. Smart.... ehhhh
What's the difference? Smart is just a slang term for intelligence.


Your Empire. Your consequences.
The government said (after WW2) that citizens from a particular African state could come here and claim citizenship( due to turmoil) . But the government had to stop this as there was such an influx from this African state and the British people became fearful they would be overrun. The government should not now allow people to enter as we are being overrun.

You said yourself that you were Islamopobic. every one has slight prejudices towards Muslims since 9/11 and 7/7.



Nope.

Nope.

Nope what?

I hate stating the bloody obvious, however, they don't learn otherwise....

Nope what?


No, not 'everyone' has slight prejudices towards muslims.

I hate stating the bloody obvious, however, they don't learn otherwise....


No, not 'everyone' has slight prejudices towards muslims.

They do they just don't admit it. (unless they actually are Muslim of course)

it's only human

Was wanted in Yemen. However he wasn't going to get a fair trial there, so the government had to, you know, abide by the law and not deport him? (Human Rights Act 1998, European Convention on Human Rights etc)

I'm not sure it's possible for me to hate that law any more than I already do.

I'm not sure it's possible for me to hate that law any more than I already do.

I think it is. Only one person has been deported for "fomenting extremism." and only 2 people have been stripped of British citizenship since 7/7. All because of those laws.

They do they just don't admit it. (unless they actually are Muslim of course)

it's only human

No, it's not. Do not project your own glaring character flaws onto the rest of us.

This whole sorry business will teach Williams not to be an academic. It's rather sad, really.
He really put his foot into his mouth there; it's surprising to me how un-media-savvy he was.


On a sidenote, what do you think of Karen Armstrong?
Apart from occasionally reading her articles in The Grauniad and believing she used to be a nun, not much.


It has nothing to do with religion.
Oh, come now...

The BNP are quite obviously dedicated to an eradication of Islamic practice and thought from the UK. They blatantly characterise it as incompatible with their fucked-up notion of 'British culture' (read: 'White culture').

Their EU election campaign, for grief's sake, is called 'The New Battle For Britain - 1939, 2009', and features a Spitfire defending the plucky Brits from, as Nick Griffin calls it, "Europeanism", "totalitarianism" and "and alien way of doing things which is not our way".

But I have a friend, who has a friend who is in the BNP, and he thinks that if within a year to 18 months all immigrants (and their descendent's) who have not left will be forcedly thrown out.
Of course they would; a section of their support base, and staff, are neo-Nazis:

Young, Nazi and Proud

Mark [Collett, former chairman of the Young BNP, now the party's Director of Publicity] appears to have no university mates to congratulate him on his achievement but he is among friends later in the summer at Red, White and Blue, the BNP's annual rally.

Although the BNP has supposedly dropped its nazi associations, at Red White and Blue there is plenty of evidence of the opposite.

There are discreet symbols everywhere. For example, men in shirts numbered 88 - H is the eighth letter of the alphabet - HH is Heil Hitler.

Mark is explicit in his adoration of Nazi Germany when he thinks the camera is turned off. "I'd never say this on camera, the Jews have been thrown out of every country including England. It's not just persecution. There's no smoke without fire," he declares.

Modell's six months filming Collett's activities conclude with a September 11 demonstration outside the Finsbury Park Mosque in London, where the BNP are joined by the NF and the chanting gets nasty. "Burn, burn, burn that paki - ear-ly in the morning."

[Source (http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/uk/young+nazi+and+proud/257213)]

You said yourself that you were Islamopobic. every one has slight prejudices towards Muslims since 9/11 and 7/7...

it's only human
As Sdaeriji rightly says, simply because you hold irrational prejudices, doesn't mean the rest of us are as shockingly deluded as you are.

They do they just don't admit it. (unless they actually are Muslim of course)

it's only human

I am a human.

I am, however, not a blubbering, idiotic, dim-witted moron.

Therefore, no, I'm not prejudiced.

I am, however, not a blubbering, idiotic, dim-witted moron.
Do you really need to flame?

Their EU election campaign, for grief's sake, is called 'The New Battle For Britain - 1939, 2009', and features a Spitfire defending the plucky Brits from, as Nick Griffin calls it, "Europeanism", "totalitarianism" and "and alien way of doing things which is not our way".


The hillarious thing is those particular Spitfires were actually from the Polish squadron flying with the RAF.

The hillarious thing is those particular Spitfires were actually from the Polish squadron flying with the RAF.
Haha!

You couldn't make it up.

Do you really need to flame?

I didn't say HE was one, did I?

Of course they're Islamophobic. Virtually everyone in Britain is to a certain extent, though most will deny it. But they are against immigration as a whole, not just Muslims. They do have a problem with white immigration.


Read up- http://bnp.org.uk/policies-2/immigration/


As for your question, I don't no how long it is before someone stops being a descendent of an immigrant, but one of the BNP's main goals is to deport all who came after 1948. So I guess they consider it from then.
And to where will they deport the UK citizens?

But were overturned by the ECHR.
When?

The hillarious thing is those particular Spitfires were actually from the Polish squadron flying with the RAF.

Ah, the BNP, proving its magnificent stupidity since the thrice-accursed day it was born.

I didn't say HE was one, did I?
No, but you implied it. But it is better to be a " blubbering, idiotic, dim-witted moron" then someone who cares not for the state that Britain is currently in.
No, it's not. Do not project your own glaring character flaws onto the rest of us.
It is not a character flaw to be cautious. Say hypertheticaly that you were on a bus. there are two middle eastern men carrying rucksacks opposite you. They are talking in very fast in low voices and are looking around the bus tentatively. Are you telling me that you wouldn't be a tiny bit suspicious of them?



Oh, come now...

The BNP are quite obviously dedicated to an eradication of Islamic practice and thought from the UK. They blatantly characterise it as incompatible with their fucked-up notion of 'British culture' (read: 'White culture').

Their EU election campaign, for grief's sake, is called 'The New Battle For Britain - 1939, 2009', and features a Spitfire defending the plucky Brits from, as Nick Griffin calls it, "Europeanism", "totalitarianism" and "and alien way of doing things which is not our way".


Of course they would; a section of their support base, and staff, are neo-Nazis:

[/I]


As Sdaeriji rightly says, simply because you hold irrational prejudices, doesn't mean the rest of us are as shockingly deluded as you are.

So what if some of them are Neo-Nazi's, not all of them are and I bet the majority of them aren't. They are just people who don't want this country to fall into ruin. Not all of their policies are to do with immigration. They want to reverse what the Labour government have done with PC and health and safety. Both of which have gone way to far. For instance people are being told to take down Union Flags because it's offensive to foreigners. WTF is that about? What is this country coming to if we can't fly our own flag in our own country? And you think that agreeing with some of the BNP's policy's is being "shockingly deluded". I think that rolling of for Brussels is far worse than that. You think that it is commendable to keep Abu Qatada here- now that's deluded. Admittedly some of their election campaigns are ridiculously tacky, but at least people take notice of them.

It is not a character flaw to be cautious. Say hypertheticaly that you were on a bus. there are two middle eastern men carrying rucksacks opposite you. They are talking in very fast in low voices and are looking around the bus tentatively. Are you telling me that you wouldn't be a tiny bit suspicious of them?

I am telling you that the fact that they were Middle Eastern would not be why I would be suspicious. I would be just as suspicious of two white men or two black men acting the same way.

Being a bigot is a flaw; one I do not share with you. Do not assume that just because you are of inferior character that everyone else is.

So what if some of them are Neo-Nazi's
So the BNP is a rich breeding ground for neo-Nazis; a sign of bad things.

They want to reverse what the Labour government have done with PC and health and safety. Both of which have gone way to far. For instance people are being told to take down Union Flags because it's offensive to foreigners.
Where? When? By whom?

And you think that agreeing with some of the BNP's policy's is being "shockingly deluded". I think that rolling of for Brussels is far worse than that.
I neither 'roll over' for Brussels nor wish my non-White neighbours to be forcibly removed from their homes.

You think that it is commendable to keep Abu Qatada here- now that's deluded.
I think it's commendable to treat a human being in the same way we'd treat any other human being, and give them a fair trial.

Admittedly some of their election campaigns are ridiculously tacky, but at least people take notice of them.
And laugh, mostly.

And to where will they deport the UK citizens?


Australia ? Just like in the old days ;)

And to where will they deport the UK citizens?


When?
.To their place of origin.


Where? When? By whom?
http://www.bnp-chronicle.com/2009/02/bnp-member-told-to-take-down-union.html
one of many incidents. For example a man was told to take the Union Flag down when he put it up when his son's returned from Afghanistan. A mayor of a village was told to take down the St.George's flag from the town hall because it was offensive. Cab drivers in Portsmouth are not allowed to wear England foot ball shirts because its offensive to people from other parts of the world.


I think it's commendable to treat a human being in the same way we'd treat any other human being, and give them a fair trial.
We gave him a fair trail. They wanted to deport him but couldn't because of the ECHR

And laugh, mostly.
The BNP has seen a dramatic rise in membership and in seats.

http://www.bnp-chronicle.com/2009/02/bnp-member-told-to-take-down-union.html
one of many incidents. For example a man was told to take the Union Flag down when he put it up when his son's returned from Afghanistan. A mayor of a village was told to take down the St.George's flag from the town hall because it was offensive. Cab drivers in Portsmouth are not allowed to wear England foot ball shirts because its offensive to people from other parts of the world.

As told by the BNP itself. Well, that's good enough for me!

To their place of origin.
Which, if the BNP want to get rid of anyone whose family wasn't here prior to 1948, is the UK.

one of many incidents.
You claimed that "people are being told to take down Union Flags because it's offensive to foreigners". There is nothing in this report that says anything remotely of this sort. The man, living in a retirement estate, was asked to rethink his plan of putting up a 20-foot mast with 6+ flags on it, after a complaint by a fellow resident.

Nothing to do with foreigners.

For example a man was told to take the Union Flag down when he put it up when his son's returned from Afghanistan. A mayor of a village was told to take down the St.George's flag from the town hall because it was offensive. Cab drivers in Portsmouth are not allowed to wear England foot ball shirts because its offensive to people from other parts of the world.
Lets see some sources, please.

We gave him a fair trail. They wanted to deport him but couldn't because of the ECHR
Which is part of the UK constitution, part of UK law.

The BNP has seen a dramatic rise in membership and in seats.
Dramatic is pushing it a bit far.

They're still a tiny, tiny minority party, and though they have gained a chair on the London Assembly (through PR) and might get a seat in the EU government (again, through PR) , it's exaggeration to say that they're anything more than a fringe group.

In most UK elections, the BNP are down there with 'OAPs for more bus stops' and other single-candidate parties.

They do they just don't admit it. (unless they actually are Muslim of course)

it's only human


I'm not muslim. I don't hold prejudices with regards to muslims.

No, but you implied it. But it is better to be a " blubbering, idiotic, dim-witted moron" then someone who cares not for the state that Britain is currently in.

Yours to prove that I implied whatever it is.

And I do care about the state of any country, I just don't tend to think the problem will go away by making it Nazi Germany.

And no, no Godwin if the comparison is appropriate.

No, not 'everyone' has slight prejudices towards muslims.

^ This.

The BNP are quite obviously dedicated to an eradication of Islamic practice and thought from the UK. They blatantly characterise it as incompatible with their fucked-up notion of 'British culture' (read: 'White culture').

Their EU election campaign, for grief's sake, is called 'The New Battle For Britain - 1939, 2009', and features a Spitfire defending the plucky Brits from, as Nick Griffin calls it, "Europeanism", "totalitarianism" and "and alien way of doing things which is not our way".

Of course they would; a section of their support base, and staff, are neo-Nazis:

The BNP are scum, but they're saints compared to the BPP. Of course, that's like saying teritary syphilis is better than AIDS. Both are absolutely terrible.

As Sdaeriji rightly says, simply because you hold irrational prejudices, doesn't mean the rest of us are as shockingly deluded as you are.

*applauds*

The BNP are scum, but they're saints compared to the BPP. Of course, that's like saying teritary syphilis is better than AIDS.

I giggled. :D

I am telling you that the fact that they were Middle Eastern would not be why I would be suspicious. I would be just as suspicious of two white men or two black men acting the same way.

Being a bigot is a flaw; one I do not share with you. Do not assume that just because you are of inferior character that everyone else is.

Being concerned of two suspicious acting Middle Eastern people does not make you a bigot. It just means you are intelligent and aware of current events. I think the fact that you would project your suspicion unto two white guys or two black guys before suspecting two middle eastern guys on a bus carrying rucksacks shows frightening ignorance.

I'm not saying that it would be acceptable to accuse random Middle Easterners of anything for being in everyday situations, I think that would be bigoted, but everyone has the right to be internally concerned at whatever situations raise alarms for them and they shouldn't be painted as bigots for that.

I giggled. :D

*bows*

I'm not muslim. I don't hold prejudices with regards to muslims.

No, it's not. Do not project your own glaring character flaws onto the rest of us.

I am a human.

I am, however, not a blubbering, idiotic, dim-witted moron.

Therefore, no, I'm not prejudiced.
Statistics state that 80% of people hold some sort of prejudice. It doesn't all add up. It is also said that most will not admit they are prejudice even if they know they are. Though allot do not realize or do not wish to realize they are prejudice.



You claimed that "people are being told to take down Union Flags because it's offensive to foreigners".

...

Lets see some sources, please.
http://theopinionator.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/05/recently-ben-sm.html
http://forums.filefront.com/pub/277076-british-police-call-union-jack-tattoo-racist.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1134647/Outrage-police-station-ditches-Union-Jack--gay-rights-flag.html
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/119/119194_cabbies_told_dont_fly_england_flags.html
That's just a quick google search. there is in fact someone in my area who was told to take his down, but only after that BNP members list got out and he was on it. Just because he is a member. People have graffitied his house because of that list.
[/QUOTE]

LOL @ the Daily Fail.

every one has slight prejudices towards Muslims since 9/11 and 7/7.

Statistics state that 80% of people hold some sort of prejudice.

Um... okay... if you want to shoot your own argument in the foot, don't let us stop you...

Being concerned of two suspicious acting Middle Eastern people does not make you a bigot. It just means you are intelligent and aware of current events. I think the fact that you would project your suspicion unto two white guys or two black guys before suspecting two middle eastern guys on a bus carrying rucksacks shows frightening ignorance.

I'm not saying that it would be acceptable to accuse random Middle Easterners of anything for being in everyday situations, I think that would be bigoted, but everyone has the right to be internally concerned at whatever situations raise alarms for them and they shouldn't be painted as bigots for that.

The only "frightening ignorance" being shown is assuming that two Middle Eastern men acting suspiciously are automatically up to something, but not having that same view of two white men or two black men or two orange men. The two white men or two black men could be conspiring to rob or hijack the bus, an event that has a much greater likelihood than the two Arab men conspiring to blow the bus up. To believe that the two men described would be more likely to be conspiring in some way because of their Middle Eastern descent is the very definition of bigotry, whether you wish to admit your own prejudice or not.

What exactly does the Human Rights Act 1998 entail, and what is so "bad" about it, Ferrous Oxide?

Statistics state that 80% of people hold some sort of prejudice. It doesn't all add up. It is also said that most will not admit they are prejudice even if they know they are. Though allot do not realize or do not wish to realize they are prejudice.

And a nice round number it is, for an unsourced statement.

The only "frightening ignorance" being shown is assuming that two Middle Eastern men acting suspiciously are automatically up to something, but not having that same view of two white men or two black men or two orange men. The two white men or two black men could be conspiring to rob or hijack the bus, an event that has a much greater likelihood than the two Arab men conspiring to blow the bus up. To believe that the two men described would be more likely to be conspiring in some way because of their Middle Eastern descent is the very definition of bigotry, whether you wish to admit your own prejudice or not.

:fluffle:

And a nice round number it is, for an unsourced statement.

I read it in the Guardian yesterday

The only "frightening ignorance" being shown is assuming that two Middle Eastern men acting suspiciously are automatically up to something, but not having that same view of two white men or two black men or two orange men. The two white men or two black men could be conspiring to rob or hijack the bus, an event that has a much greater likelihood than the two Arab men conspiring to blow the bus up. To believe that the two men described would be more likely to be conspiring in some way because of their Middle Eastern descent is the very definition of bigotry, whether you wish to admit your own prejudice or not.

Oh come on, Statistically it is more likely to be a Muslim carrying out a terrorist attack than a non-Muslim. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2005.htm. Look it up on google if that isn't enough..

Oh come on, Statistically it is more likely to be a Muslim carrying out a terrorist attack than a non-Muslim. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2005.htm. Look it up on google if that isn't enough..

That isn't enough. Prove that, statistically, those two Arab men are more likely to be conspiring to commit a crime than two white men or two black men.

edit: As I am white, if I am going to be the victim of a violent crime, statistically, the offender will also be white.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

That isn't enough. Prove that, statistically, those two Arab men are more likely to be conspiring to commit a crime than two white men or two black men.

edit: As I am white, if I am going to be the victim of a violent crime, statistically, the offender will also be white.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

A) thats in the US.
B) That's any violent crime, not just terrorist attacks.

Oh come on, Statistically it is more likely to be a Muslim carrying out a terrorist attack than a non-Muslim. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2005.htm. Look it up on google if that isn't enough..

And it's not possible that a site whose header proclaims: "Islam: The Religion of Peace (and a big stack of dead bodies)" might not be even slightly exaggerating?

Pick a better source, please.

Edit: amalgamated posts.

A) thats in the US.
B) That's any violent crime, not just terrorist attacks.

Well, if you are going to limit it to just terrorist attacks in the UK, I would note that there has been one major attack carried out by Muslims, while the IRA were responsible for hundreds of bombings and shootings. Unfortunately for you, this doesn't back up your argument very well.

Also, please provide a link for that statement about prejudice - surely if it was in the Guardian it should be on their website?

And it's not possible that a site whose header proclaims: "Islam: The Religion of Peace (and a big stack of dead bodies)" might not be even slightly exaggerating?

Pick a better source, please.

Edit: amalgamated posts.



Well, if you are going to limit it to just terrorist attacks in the UK, I would note that there has been one major attack carried out by Muslims, while the IRA were responsible for hundreds of bombings and shootings. Unfortunately for you, this doesn't back up your argument very well.

Also, please provide a link for that statement about prejudice - surely if it was in the Guardian it should be on their website?

In the Guardian magazine called " How to understand people".

Better? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_War_on_Terrorism

I read it in the Guardian yesterday

I read it in the Guardian yesterday that there's a new law saying you HAVE to give all your money to people named Heikoku 2 on internet forums or face jailtime.

See how easy it is to make up "I read it in X" yesterday?

Not that the Guardian means jack shit, mind you.

A) thats in the US.
B) That's any violent crime, not just terrorist attacks.

We were never talking about a terrorist attack, champ. You asked me, hypothetically, if I saw two Middle Eastern men sitting across from me on a bus acting suspiciously, would I be suspicous? I said I would not be any more suspicious of two Middle Eastern men acting strangely than I would two white men or two black men. That is to say, I would be equally as suspicious that the two Middle Eastern men were planning on blowing up the bus as I would be that the two white men or the two black men were getting ready to rob me. Two men acting like they're getting ready to commit a crime are two men acting like they are getting ready to commit a crime. They're race is irrelevant. If the two black guys shoot me or the two white guys knife me or the two Arab guys blow me up, I'm just as dead.

The fact that you would be MORE suspicious of two Arab guys acting shady than two white guys or two black guys only goes to show YOUR bigotry.

In the Guardian magazine called " How to understand people".

Better? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_War_on_Terrorism

A battle of the Wiki links?

Fine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army

OMG WHITE TERRORISTS

I read it in the Guardian yesterday that there's a new law saying you HAVE to give all your money to people named Heikoku 2 on internet forums or face jailtime.

See how easy it is to make up "I read it in X" yesterday?

Not that the Guardian means jack shit, mind you.

For me to give you all my money I would first need ur credit card details, are you willing to give them to me?

And as for the guardian thing I'll see if I can scan it in to my computer.

.To their place of origin.

Seriously? That's what you've got?

Those granted asylum in the UK can simply go back to the countries they fled from, where they risk persecution, torture and death?

Since Cuba doesn't allow people who've lived outside the country for more than (I think it is) 11 months, how will the Cubans get back home? Or the Ethiopians who don't want to leave the UK, since Ethiopia won't accept forced returns?

Or those who have renounced their old citizenship... I guess any problems returning will just be their problem, right?

So well-established British citizens will be kicked out (like a girl born in Somalia who got to the UK when she was 8 years old and has lived in a functioning society for 20 years) because they once emigrated to the UK... What about their families? Their wives and children, especially the children born in the UK who have citizenship. What will happen to them?

The idea of deporting all who came after 1948 is unworkable, and frankly, idiotic. As is the idea of completely stopping all immigration to the UK.

A battle of the Wiki links?

Fine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army

OMG WHITE TERRORISTS

Don't forget to throw in :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Defence_Association
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Volunteer_Force

For me to give you all my money I would first need ur credit card details, are you willing to give them to me?

Yeah, its number is 8008135.

Now read it like they are letters.

And as for the guardian thing I'll see if I can scan it in to my computer.

You do that.

In the Guardian magazine called " How to understand people".

Still not good enough - we take the Times, not the Guardian. A link, my dear sir, a link. Something I can click on and read.


Better? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_War_on_Terrorism

Somewhat, although many events which have been subsumed into that shouldn't have been, or aren't particularly useful for your case. The anthrax attacks in America, for example, were not carried out by a Muslim. The assassination of Benazir Bhutto was likely for political reasons, not religious. Ditto with the Beslan school hostage taking. The list also includes 'plots' in which every person alleged to be involved was found innocent.

The very idea of some sort of global War on Terror, a righteous crusade by the democratic West against the evil Islamist conspiracy, is such nonsense as to be laughable. It conflates regional politics and issues, many exceedingly complex and only tangentially, if at all, related to religion, into a single vast war. It is, in short, entirely the wrong response, and should never have been considered.

Seriously? That's what you've got?

Those granted asylum in the UK can simply go back to the countries they fled from, where they risk persecution, torture and death?

Since Cuba doesn't allow people who've lived outside the country for more than (I think it is) 11 months, how will the Cubans get back home? Or the Ethiopians who don't want to leave the UK, since Ethiopia won't accept forced returns?

Or those who have renounced their old citizenship... I guess any problems returning will just be their problem, right?

So well-established British citizens will be kicked out (like a girl born in Somalia who got to the UK when she was 8 years old and has lived in a functioning society for 20 years) because they once emigrated to the UK... What about their families? Their wives and children, especially the children born in the UK who have citizenship. What will happen to them?

The idea of deporting all who came after 1948 is unworkable, and frankly, idiotic. As is the idea of completely stopping all immigration to the UK.

I don't think RoI gives a damn, and I don't think the British Nazional Party gives a damn either.

Do you?

Oh come on, Statistically it is more likely to be a Muslim carrying out a terrorist attack than a non-Muslim. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2005.htm. Look it up on google if that isn't enough..

Your source is seriously flawed as it mixes up religiously motivated violence with culturally motivated violence, acts of war / armed resistance, and random criminal acts.

Besides, as others have said, statistics doesn't support your argument where the UK is concerned.

I don't think RoI gives a damn, and I don't think the British Nazional Party gives a damn either.

Do you?

No, but we have to challenge them with reason and rasional thought, don't we?

No, but we have to challenge them with reason and rasional thought, don't we?

Point taken.

So, RoI, will you tell us how to solve these problems with your idea, recant from your position or merely admit you want to treat a bunch of people like üntermenschen for what boils down to shits and giggles?

Don't pretend like you have other options. You don't.

Yeah, its number is 8008135.

Now read it like they are letters.



You do that.

Firstly I think that that is possibly the best credit card number ever heard, and secondly I've now robbed you of all your money.

That thing I read in the Guardian, I scanned it into my PC and uploaded it to http://www.lookpic.com/files/IMG4.jpg

And as for that IAT thing that's at https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/

Point taken.

So, RoI, will you tell us how to solve these problems with your idea, recant from your position or merely admit you want to treat a bunch of people like üntermenschen for what boils down to shits and giggles?

Don't pretend like you have other options. You don't.
Why do people have a fixation with comparing me to Hitler? I would be insulted if the man wasn't a genius (not for the whole Jew thing).
I don't think RoI gives a damn, and I don't think the British Nazional Party gives a damn either.
Do you?
tbh I don't give a damn, it's their problem not mine. Besides I do not support the BNP in every aspect, nor would I vote for them if I could. I'm not saying send everyone back. Firstly any jobs should be given to British workers. Then give any spare jobs to the immigrants. If an immigrant can't get a job within 3 months they should be sent back (much like in the EU). Any existing immigrants who do not have jobs should be sent back and not live on taxpayer's money.

Don't forget to throw in :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Defence_Association
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Volunteer_Force

What about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Qaeda
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbolah

And as for that IAT thing that's at https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/
And that tell me that I'm in the middle category together with 25%

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/images/arabbreakdown.gif

Told me the same thing with Judaism Vs. Other Religions too. Strange that.

Statistics state that 80% of people hold some sort of prejudice.

Source?

Why do people have a fixation with comparing me to Hitler?

Asked...

tbh I don't give a damn, it's their problem not mine.

...and answered.

That you would do this to people who immigrated BEFORE such a hideous law would be hypothetically thought of or passed, and that you don't give a damn because they're not British, only to use as an ad hominem the notion that I, a Brazilian, don't care about the UK, shows precisely why is it that people compare you to Hitler.

You lost this argument in one post.

Correction: You were losing this argument faster than a centipede in a supernova runs out of limbs. That bullshit post of yours just executed your sentence.

tbh I don't give a damn, it's their problem not mine.
"They should leave. That they can't leave isn't my problem."

It becomes your problem when you champion an unworkable policy without caring to examine or explain the finer points - as is obvious from how you avoid responding to my previous post.


Besides I do not support the BNP in every aspect, nor would I vote for them if I could. I'm not saying send everyone back. Firstly any jobs should be given to British workers. Then give any spare jobs to the immigrants.
Even if a more qualified immigrant could do it better and faster? Why?

If an immigrant can't get a job within 3 months they should be sent back
Even if he'll be killed upon return. The blood wouldn't be on your hands would it? Much like how when pushing a person in front of a train, it's the impact that kills him, i.e. it's the fault of the train, not the person pushing.

Don't look now, but your lack of humanity and ethics are showing.

(much like in the EU).
wut


What about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Qaeda
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbolah

What about them?

Oh come on, Statistically it is more likely to be a Muslim carrying out a terrorist attack than a non-Muslim. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2005.htm. Look it up on google if that isn't enough..
First, Arab and Muslim are a bit different. Many Arabs are probably not what you'd call "Middle Eastern looking" in your nonsensical hypothetical. Furthermore, you seem to not quite understand either what a properly done statistic is or how to use it; your opinions on statistical likelihood are not very convincing.
Why do people have a fixation with comparing me to Hitler? I would be insulted if the man wasn't a genius (not for the whole Jew thing).

tbh I don't give a damn, it's their problem not mine. Besides I do not support the BNP in every aspect, nor would I vote for them if I could. I'm not saying send everyone back. Firstly any jobs should be given to British workers. Then give any spare jobs to the immigrants. If an immigrant can't get a job within 3 months they should be sent back (much like in the EU). Any existing immigrants who do not have jobs should be sent back and not live on taxpayer's money.



What about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Qaeda
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbolah

It's funny that you call Hitler a "genius"; this is debatable, at best, and I'm just going to leave this garbage at that since you're apparently ignorant of the context of the comparison, willfully or otherwise.

What's funny, too, are the organizations you've linked. He links terrorist organizations relevant to British perspective, of the four that you linked, only one is really a global threat while the other three are, by and large, regional issues in places far removed from your average day in Britain.

"They should leave. That they can't leave isn't my problem."

It becomes your problem when you champion an unworkable policy without caring to examine or explain the finer points - as is obvious from how you avoid responding to my previous post.


Even if a more qualified immigrant could do it better and faster? Why?


Even if he'll be killed upon return. The blood wouldn't be on your hands would it? Much like how when pushing a person in front of a train, it's the impact that kills him, i.e. it's the fault of the train, not the person pushing.

Don't look now, but your lack of humanity and ethics are showing.



Forget it, Gravlen. He'll think he's right just like the soldiers that escorted the Jews into gas chambers.

And then he'll wonder why is it that we compare him to Hitler, given that he DOES want to treat foreigners as üntermenschen, and given that he also complained that I "don't care about how the UK is".

You know, after not caring about actual people and after treating them as inferiors because they're not from the UK.

I would be insulted if the man wasn't a genius

What little credibility you had left has just been sucked away.


Firstly any jobs should be given to British workers.

Even if they're less qualified than a Spaniard, say?

(much like in the EU).

Umm, we're in the EU.

not live on taxpayer's money.

What about people on the dole who are British? Should they get kicked out?

What about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Qaeda
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbolah

What about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumann_na_mBan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_People%27s_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GRAPO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euskadi_ta_Askatasuna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Sikh_Youth_Federation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_People%27s_Liberation_Party/Front
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shining_Path

Firstly any jobs should be given to British workers. Then give any spare jobs to the immigrants. If an immigrant can't get a job within 3 months they should be sent back (much like in the EU). Any existing immigrants who do not have jobs should be sent back and not live on taxpayer's money.
I take it you aren't really familiar with the concept of employment. Jobs aren't allocated and 'given' to anybody like some quasi-Soviet planned system. One applies for a job and the employer offers the job to the best qualified applicant(s). Or put it another way; would you rather have open heart surgery performed by a qualified Pakistani immigrant or Mr. Unemployed down the road?

What's funny, too, are the organizations you've linked. He links terrorist organizations relevant to British perspective, of the four that you linked, only one is really a global threat while the other three are, by and large, regional issues in places far removed from your average day in Britain.

And he shouldn't give a fuck about Hamas and Israel. I mean, they ARE, after all, not from the UK.

I take it you aren't really familiar with the concept of employment. Jobs aren't allocated and 'given' to anybody like some quasi-Soviet planned system. One applies for a job and the employer offers the job to the best qualified applicant(s). Or put it another way; would you rather have open heart surgery performed by a qualified Pakistani immigrant or Mr. Unemployed down the road?

If he wants to be operated upon by Drunk McButcher instead of Abu "best heart surgeon in the world" Bin-surah, let him. Natural selection at work.

And he shouldn't give a fuck about Hamas and Israel. I mean, they ARE, after all, not from the UK.

I'm just confused by his argument. It strikes me as:

"QQ THE ISLAMS R KILLINZ BRITEESH! STATICS SHOS IT."
"Erm...Not really. Actually, if you look at it intelligently, "homegrown" terrorism is much more prevalent and dangerous that "Islamic" terrorism, as evidenced by the much larger number of relevant actors in the local theater."
"TERRORISTS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND MUSLIM MAJORITY COUNTRIES ARE TEH ISLAMS THOUGH!"
"....." *liquefied brain thus pours out of ears like water in the shower*

I'm just confused by his argument. It strikes me as:

"QQ THE ISLAMS R KILLINZ BRITEESH! STATICS SHOS IT."
"Erm...Not really. Actually, if you look at it intelligently, "homegrown" terrorism is much more prevalent and dangerous that "Islamic" terrorism, as evidenced by the much larger number of relevant actors in the local theater."
"TERRORISTS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND MUSLIM MAJORITY COUNTRIES ARE TEH ISLAMS THOUGH!"
"....." *liquefied brain thus pours out of ears like water in the shower*

You're confused? Good. I'm stuck between disgusted, amused, and pitying him for having the poor luck of running into me with such a shoddy style.

The BNP are scum, but they're saints compared to the BPP.
To be fair to the BPP, they don't attempt to hide any of their prejudice under a blanket of respectability.



Statistics state that 80% of people hold some sort of prejudice.
Your source (linky (http://www.lookpic.com/files/IMG4.jpg)) says that we have a "slight preference" for our own race; based upon a rather strange test, I might add.

That 80% prejudice you cite is against elderly people, not those of the Islamic faith.

http://theopinionator.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/05/recently-ben-sm.html
http://forums.filefront.com/pub/277076-british-police-call-union-jack-tattoo-racist.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1134647/Outrage-police-station-ditches-Union-Jack--gay-rights-flag.html
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/119/119194_cabbies_told_dont_fly_england_flags.html
So, we have a series of lone individuals being a bit too strict in enforcing PC regulations, all of which were reversed by their respective institutions, and cabbies complaining because their employer has a "ban on displaying... any notice or sign - including a flag - without council consent."

Hardly a damning indication that 'Britishness' is being clamped down upon.

People have graffitied his house because of that [leaked BNP member] list.
How surprising...

You're confused? Good. I'm stuck between disgusted, amused, and pitying him for having the poor luck of running into me with such a shoddy style.

Within the context of my post, "confused" obviously means "thinks is garbage." I'd have expected such a self-proclaimed master of rhetoric to understand that.

Within the context of my post, "confused" obviously means "thinks is garbage." I'd have expected such a self-proclaimed master of rhetoric to understand that.

I did, but I also had to forego that in my post in order to use it as sort of a platform, see?

Forget it, Gravlen. It's Chinatown.
Fixed to make it more jazzy. :wink:

I take it you aren't really familiar with the concept of employment. Jobs aren't allocated and 'given' to anybody like some quasi-Soviet planned system. One applies for a job and the employer offers the job to the best qualified applicant(s). Or put it another way; would you rather have open heart surgery performed by a qualified Pakistani immigrant or Mr. Unemployed down the road?

Also a very good point.

I'm just confused by his argument. It strikes me as:

"QQ THE ISLAMS R KILLINZ BRITEESH! STATICS SHOS IT."
"Erm...Not really. Actually, if you look at it intelligently, "homegrown" terrorism is much more prevalent and dangerous that "Islamic" terrorism, as evidenced by the much larger number of relevant actors in the local theater."
"TERRORISTS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND MUSLIM MAJORITY COUNTRIES ARE TEH ISLAMS THOUGH!"
"....." *liquefied brain thus pours out of ears like water in the shower*

Or in shorthand... Ebil Mozlemz lulz.

Fixed to make it more jazzy. :wink:

>.>

<.<

*Looks for a Chinatown in his city, Belo Horizonte. Fails to find any.*

Forget it, Gravlen. It's Belo Horizonte...

WoW. An entire page with the sole purpose of slating me, I'm impressed.

What little credibility you had left has just been sucked away.
Why? Hitler was a genius of the military and home affairs. And a great many other things to.



Even if they're less qualified than a Spaniard, say?
Yes, British jobs, for British workers


Umm, we're in the EU.
I mean the fact that when a Pole comes here he has 3 months to find a job or he's out of here.


What about people on the dole who are British? Should they get kicked out?
Yes, I've said this before, force them to work or to leave.


What about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumann_na_mBan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_People%27s_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GRAPO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euskadi_ta_Askatasuna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Sikh_Youth_Federation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_People%27s_Liberation_Party/Front
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shining_Path
And how many terror attacks have these groups done in the UK since the start of the millennium?
Forget it, Gravlen. He'll think he's right just like the soldiers that escorted the Jews into gas chambers.
Now that's a bit harsh. WTF does immigration and slight prejudice have to do with killing Jews? A god deal of my family are Jewish, why would I kill them?


You know, after not caring about actual people and after treating them as inferiors because they're not from the UK.
Not inferior in any other way than housing and jobs,


Even if a more qualified immigrant could do it better and faster? Why?
Because British people are losing out to foreigners. If a British family can't afford food or housing how is that fair?

Even if he'll be killed upon return. The blood wouldn't be on your hands would it? Much like how when pushing a person in front of a train, it's the impact that kills him, i.e. it's the fault of the train, not the person pushing.

Don't look now, but your lack of humanity and ethics are showing.
Who needs humanity anyway? it's useless. And I do have ethics, I have a work ethic. And if he gets killed on return, How is that my fault? Why should he come here for asylum? It's not his country.

And surly there is someone else on this forum who is a slight facist.

I say slight loosely.

WoW. An entire page with the sole purpose of slating me, I'm impressed.

Because you're painfully wrong.


Why? Hitler was a genius of the military and home affairs. And a great many other things to.

Hence how he completely fucked up the war for Germany.

Yes, British jobs, for British workers

Then you're stupid. If they're equally qualified, then yes, I believe the job should go to a British person, but if the foreigner is better qualified then they should get the job.


Yes, I've said this before, force them to work or to leave.

Leave to where?



And how many terror attacks have these groups done in the UK since the start of the millennium?

Not too many, and only one of those even operates in the UK, but how many terrorist attacks have Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda, the Taliban or Hamas committed in the UK since the start of the Millenium? Jesus Christ mate, you've driven me to defend Islamic terrorists.

Because British people are losing out to foreigners. If a British family can't afford food or housing how is that fair?

It's not.

Who needs humanity anyway? it's useless. And I do have ethics, I have a work ethic. And if he gets killed on return, How is that my fault? Why should he come here for asylum? It's not his country.

So asylum seekers should stay where they will most likely to be killed, imprisoned or tortured?

And surly there is someone else on this forum who is a slight national socialist.

Other than the occasional troll, no.

WoW. An entire page with the sole purpose of slating me, I'm impressed.


Why? Hitler was a genius of the military and home affairs. And a great many other things to.
Debatable, at best. He was a charismatic opportunist who was able to rally the relevant demographics during a time that predisposes populations to such rallying calls. There are very valid tactic and strategic reasons he lost WWII. And there's great debate as to his personal influence upon the economy.

Yes, British jobs, for British workers
Except, here British only extends to those you decide are British through some completely subjective and arbitrary process.
I mean the fact that when a Pole comes here he has 3 months to find a job or he's out of here.


Yes, I've said this before, force them to work or to leave.


And how many terror attacks have these groups done in the UK since the start of the millennium?

Now that's a bit harsh. WTF does immigration and slight prejudice have to do with killing Jews? A god deal of my family are Jewish, why would I kill them?


Not inferior in any other way than housing and jobs,

Because British people are losing out to foreigners. If a British family can't afford food or housing how is that fair?
Perhaps job training and education are a better investment than regulations that are not only infeasible at a policy level, but ethically shaky, economically disastrous and, on the whole, historically and culturally ignorant on en epic scale.
Who needs humanity anyway? it's useless. And I do have ethics, I have a work ethic. And if he gets killed on return, How is that my fault? Why should he come here for asylum? It's not his country.
You do not understand the concept of asylum, do you? This statement actually make my head hurt. Really? Why should someone leave their country to seek asylum? After all, the place that isn't their country isn't their country? Really? Jesus honky fucking Christ....I'm at a loss.
And surly there is someone else on this forum who is a slight national socialist.

I say slight loosely.

Still at a loss from the quote prior to this.

Hence how he completely fucked up the war for Germany.

he occupied Europe for 5 years that's pretty impressive. And actually it was mostly Himler's fault. And it was his generals who wanted to go into the USSR not him, and that was what rele fucked em up.




Leave to where?

Isle of man. We should make a big camp their and make them work.




Not too many, and only one of those even operates in the UK, but how many terrorist attacks have Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda, the Taliban or Hamas committed in the UK since the start of the Millenium? Jesus Christ mate, you've driven me to defend Islamic terrorists.

That was my plan all along. I wanted people to defend Islamic Terrorists.
Islamic groups (to the best of my knowledge , off the top of my head) have attempted 4.


It's not.

So why should foreigners get them?


So asylum seekers should stay where they will most likely to be killed, imprisoned or tortured?

Yes or go and sponge off someone else's government.


Other than the occasional troll, no.
So your all level headed people then? Every single one of you?

Yes, British jobs, for British workers
Shouldn't that be 'British jobs, for British workers here prior to 1948'?

Yes or go and sponge off someone else's government.
I fail to see how escaping from death and torture constitutes 'sponging' off of a government.

Shouldn't that be ' British jobs, for British workers here prior to 1948'?

I wonder what his stance on non-British companies employing British people is?

Shouldn't that be ' British jobs, for British workers here prior to 1948'?

It should, my mistake

British jobs for British workers here prior to 1948

It should, my mistake

British jobs for British workers here prior to 1948
Then you would deny my father, who was born to Scottish parents in what was then Northern Rhodesia in the late 1950s and moved here when he was 5years old, a job?

Indeed, you'd want to remove him from the country?

I wonder what his stance on non-British companies employing British people is?
Why did you not ask me directly? If the company is in britain it should employ British workers
Shouldn't that be 'British jobs, for British workers here prior to 1948'?


I fail to see how escaping from death and torture constitutes 'sponging' off of a government.

I do. They come here automaticly assume they're safe. why should we protect them?

Then you would deny my father, who was born to Scottish parents in what was then Northern Rhodesia in the late 1950s and moved here when he was 5years old, a job?

Indeed, you'd want to remove him from the country?

No indeed. He had British parents. I have a friend from Zimbabwe with British parents and I do not wish for him to be unemployed or deported.

I do. They come here automaticly assume they're safe. why should we protect them?
Because that is what 'asylum' means: a safe haven.

We don't support the killing or torturing of peoples, and thus should provide shelter for those unfortunates who live in regimes which want to oppress them; just as we would expect others to provide shelter for us.

No indeed. He had British parents. I have a friend from Zimbabwe with British parents and I do not wish for him to be unemployed or deported.
As to the whole 1948 deal, I presume it is no coincidence that the Windrush landed that same year, thus committing the BNP to removing all but a few black citizens from Britain.

It'd be much easier if they just came out and said they'd like Britain to be 'racially pure' or whatever terminology is fashionable among racist circles these days.

If you don't object to people moving into Britain post-1948, as long as they have British parents, why would you object to (a) those who were British citizens (i.e., those from the West Indies) yet arrived here in 1948+, and (b) those who, along with their parents, are British citizens, yet whose grandparents weren't?

All of this amounts to a confused, and rather bigoted, notion of nationality. Ultimately, it is a statement that those with a certain amount of pigment in their skin should be forcibly removed from their homes and deported.

Why did you not ask me directly? If the company is in britain it should employ British workers

To what level? Should everyone working for the company in the UK be British?

Because that is what 'asylum' means: a safe haven.

We don't support the killing or torturing of peoples, and thus should provide shelter for those unfortunates who live in regimes which want to oppress them; just as we would expect others to provide shelter for us.

As to the whole 1948 deal, I presume it is no coincidence that the Windrush landed that same year, thus committing the BNP to removing all but a few black citizens from Britain.

It'd be much easier if they just came out and said they'd like Britain to be 'racially pure' or whatever terminology is fashionable among racist circles these days.
If you are implying that I am racist then you are deeply mistaken. I have a black friend and I used to have a Palistinien friend( until he started proclaiming that all British people are ignorant pigs and that he hated this country). We may not promote torture but we still do it. And if they don't want to live were they live then move some where else, but not here.
To what level? Should everyone working for the company in the UK be British?
Everyone.

Yes, British jobs, for British workers
Are you aware that you're living in an age og globalization?


I mean the fact that when a Pole comes here he has 3 months to find a job or he's out of here.
Sure it's not six months?


And how many terror attacks have these groups done in the UK since the start of the millennium?
How many terrorist attacks have Hamas, Hizballah, The Taliban, or Al Quaeda done in the UK since... forever?

The official inquiry into the 7 July London bombings will say the attack was planned on a shoestring budget from information on the internet, that there was no 'fifth-bomber' and no direct support from al-Qaeda, although two of the bombers had visited Pakistan.

The first forensic account of the atrocity that claimed the lives of 52 people, which will be published in the next few weeks, will say that attacks were the product of a 'simple and inexpensive' plot hatched by four British suicide bombers bent on martyrdom.

Far from being the work of an international terror network, as originally suspected, the attack was carried out by four men who had scoured terror sites on the internet. Their knapsack bombs cost only a few hundred pounds, according to the first completed draft of the government's definitive report into the blasts.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/apr/09/july7.uksecurity



Because British people are losing out to foreigners.
I forget, have you proven this claim? Because I'd like to see your evidence for it.

Also, it's kinda funny how you exclude British citizens from what you would call "British people".


Who needs humanity anyway? it's useless.
I guess that says it all about you.

Except... why then would you care if "British people" are losing out to foreigners? Why would you care about the fairness of the hypothetical British family who can't afford food or housing?

And I do have ethics, I have a work ethic.
And that's it?

I feel that my point still stands, maybe even reinforced.

And if he gets killed on return, How is that my fault?
Because you sent him back. You are an accomplice in that respect.

Why should he come here for asylum? It's not his country.
That's why he's comming there. Because his country would be too unsafe.

British jobs for British workers here prior to 1948
I guess you're not a football fan, are you...

I do. They come here automaticly assume they're safe. why should we protect them?

Because we're not completely inhuman bastards.

Everyone.

Well done, you just stopped any foreign companies from choosing to site facilities in the UK and cost the economy hundreds of thousands of jobs.

Are you aware that you're living in an age og globalization? I am and it should be stopped


Sure it's not six months?
Call to Power told me it was 3

How many terrorist attacks have Hamas, Hizballah, The Taliban, or Al Quaeda done in the UK since... forever?

What deference does that make, They were still Muslim extremists. They wouldn't even be here if we had tighter immigration controls.



I forget, have you proven this claim? Because I'd like to see your evidence for it.

Also, it's kinda funny how you exclude British citizens from what you would call "British people".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6913296.stm
while there are 3 million British people unemployed.
Being a British citizen does not make you truly British.

I guess that says it all about you.

Except... why then would you care if "British people" are losing out to foreigners? Why would you care about the fairness of the hypothetical British family who can't afford food or housing?[/QUOTE]
Because I live in a deprived area with very little funding, so many of my friends families are in this very situation. While Afghans get a £1million house and complain its too small.


I feel that my point still stands, maybe even reinforced.
Meh

Because you sent him back. You are an accomplice in that respect.[/QUOTE]
So? he shouldn't be here in the first place

That's why he's comming there. Because his country would be too unsafe.
So?

I guess you're not a football fan, are you...
Nope I hate it with a passion.

If you are implying that I am racist then you are deeply mistaken. I have a black friend and I used to have a Palistinien friend( until he started proclaiming that all British people are ignorant pigs and that he hated this country).
Both of whom you, presumably, have no qualms with seeing the back of?

And if they don't want to live were they live then move some where else, but not here.
It's far more than simply not wanting to live where they currently do; it's claiming a haven from those who would rape, torture and kill you and your family.

Everyone.
Thus destroying the UK economy even more than simply halting immigration.

Well done. I hope you like picking cockles.

Being a British citizen does not make you truly British.
Pray tell, what does?

I read it in the Guardian yesterday that there's a new law saying you HAVE to give all your money to people named Heikoku 2 on internet forums or face jailtime.

See how easy it is to make up "I read it in X" yesterday?

Not that the Guardian means jack shit, mind you.

You made that up? Fuck, I just wired you all that money for nothing! Damn it! :mad:

Both of whom you, presumably, have no qualms with seeing the back of?
So now I'm racist and a backstabber? Man your cold. No I would not care if the Palistinien went, but then again he's racist to the people that are protecting him- he should be thrown out. Where would he be if we hadn't of taken him in? Being blown to bits by the Israelis.

It's far more than simply not wanting to live where they currently do; it's claiming a haven from those who would rape, torture and kill you and your family.
I know, but why come here? why not some where else?

Thus destroying the UK economy even more than simply halting immigration.

Well done. I hope you like picking cockles.
Why don't we take some of the republicans policies from the '30's? then we'd be alright.

Pray tell, what does?

Being born here and your ancestors being born here.

You made that up? Fuck, I just wired you all that money for nothing! Damn it! :mad:

Whoopsie.

Being born here and your ancestors being born here.

You're wrong.

End of story.

Whoopsie.

No worries, dude. It happens. :p

So now I'm racist and a backstabber?
If, indeed, you want to enact a policy that would forcibly remove those immigrants arriving in Britain post-1948, i.e., mostly non-white immigrants, and further did not give two hoots that a friend and his/her family were going to be removed from their home and kicked out of the country... yes.

I know, but why come here? why not some where else?
Because the UK is, and has always been, a melting-pot of cultures and peoples from around the globe. It is, generally, a welcoming place for those who wish a better life. The story of Britain is a story of immigration.

Further, as a leading proponent of pushing democracy and freedom aroud the globe, one would think the UK would greet with open arms those fleeing from undemocratic, totalitarian regimes.

Why don't we take some of the republicans policies from the '30's? then we'd be alright.
No, we certainly wouldn't.

Have a look at the trading done in London; it being one of the world's economic centres. Remove all those companies with less than 100% white British staff, and the economy collapses.

Being born here and your ancestors being born here.
How far back?

Are you OK with those non-Britons born on the 31st December 1947?

Would you kick out the Royal Family?

How many ancestors count? One? More?

If you are implying that I am racist then you are deeply mistaken. I have a black friend and I used to have a Palistinien friend( until he started proclaiming that all British people are ignorant pigs and that he hated this country). We may not promote torture but we still do it. And if they don't want to live were they live then move some where else, but not here.

Having a black friend doesn't make you a non-racist (note: I'm not saying you are/aren't a racist, just that having a black friend doesn't make you a non-racist). For example, Richard Wagner was quite the anti-Semite, but had a few Jewish friends.

You're wrong.

End of story.

Wow that's covinced me your right and I wrong.

Thank you for showing me the light:hail:

Wow that's covinced me your right and I wrong.

Thank you for showing me the light:hail:

I'm not here to convince you. The things you posted already shone serious doubt on your ability to learn. I'm just pointing out a simple, undeniable fact that you seemingly can't see.

Being born here and your ancestors being born here.

Have fun trying to deport the entire country.

Almost everyone is descended from the Saxons, Vikings, French or Romans. The Royal Family themselves are German descendants.

I'm not here to convince you. The things you posted already shone serious doubt on your ability to learn. I'm just pointing out a simple, undeniable fact that you seemingly can't see.
Och, cut it out.

You're of no use whatsoever. If you wish to spam, please do so elsewhere.

That was my plan all along. I wanted people to defend Islamic Terrorists.
Islamic groups (to the best of my knowledge , off the top of my head) have attempted 4.
Pointing out that you're factually wrong isn't defending anyone. It's simply pointing out that you're wrong yet again.

I am and it should be stopped
And you're willing to make more people ("British people") unemployed to make sure that only "British people" are employed.

Call to Power told me it was 3
So you don't know what you're talking about then?

What deference does that make, They were still Muslim extremists.
It shows that you're factually wrong - again.

They wouldn't even be here if we had tighter immigration controls.
And of course, the UK should never have been an empire, because then they wouldn't have immigrated... Etc. ad nauseum.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6913296.stm
while there are 3 million British people unemployed.
Are you going to back up your claim or not? 'cause your link doesn't.

I want figures that shows that equally qualified "British People" are losing out - or at least that the unemployed would be able and willing to do the jobs that the foreigners are "taking".

Being a British citizen does not make you truly British.
So how far back do you have to go to be "truly British" - in your mind?


Because I live in a deprived area with very little funding, so many of my friends families are in this very situation.
So? Why do you care? They're not you, and fuck humanism, right?


So? he shouldn't be here in the first place
Therefore you'd happily shove him in front of the train - since he never "belonged" in the train station in the first place.

Nice.


Nope I hate it with a passion.
I understood that. There are nasty foreigners there, taking the jobs of British footballers, and stealing their money.

So now I'm racist and a backstabber?
Your words.

Have fun trying to deport the entire country.

Almost everyone is descended from the Saxons, Vikings, French or Romans. The Royal Family themselves are German descendants.
I know that. But It takes more than one or two generations to make you British.
I'm not here to convince you. The things you posted already shone serious doubt on your ability to learn. I'm just pointing out a simple, undeniable fact that you seemingly can't see.
I see not the point in arguing with some one who puts up nothing to argue against. If you say someone is wrong it does not make them wrong. Your not a god. You clearly have deluded yourself with visions of grandeur.
Having a black friend doesn't make you a non-racist (note: I'm not saying you are/aren't a racist, just that having a black friend doesn't make you a non-racist). For example, Richard Wagner was quite the anti-Semite, but had a few Jewish friends.
Why would Jews be friends with a person who are openly anti-semantic. And vis-versa.
If, indeed, you want to enact a policy that would forcibly remove those immigrants arriving in Britain post-1948, i.e., mostly non-white immigrants, and further did not give two hoots that a friend and his/her family were going to be removed from their home and kicked out of the country... yes.
Former-racist-immigrant-friend actually. Besides his family live on benefits and live in a council house- their not even British.

Because the UK is, and has always been, a melting-pot of cultures and peoples from around the globe. It is, generally, a welcoming place for those who wish a better life. The story of Britain is a story of immigration.

Further, as a leading proponent of pushing democracy and freedom aroud the globe, one would think the UK would greet with open arms those fleeing from undemocratic, totalitarian regimes.
The story of Britain is of being invaded by a superior force. Then creating the best empire the world has ever seen. Then turning into spineless idealists and being invaded by a tide of immigrants.

The story of Britain is of being invaded by a superior force. Then creating the best empire the world has ever seen. Then turning into spineless idealists and being invaded by a tide of immigrants.
So the Scots, Picts, Celts, Angles, Saxons, Danes, Norse, Gaels, Normans, Germans, Italians, French, Spanish, etc., etc., etc., are what, if not immigrants?

And how are the above different to the immigrants of today?

So the Scots, Picts, Celts, Angles, Saxons, Danes, Norse, Gaels, Normans, Germans, Italians, French, Spanish, etc., etc., etc., are what, if not immigrants?

a) the scot's never took England entirely
b) I've said that I realize this country was build on the foundations of others. (even our language is) but these were only by being invaded, and once all that stopped we created the best empire the world has ever seen. You see what happens if we're left alone. Now we've got these immigrants pulling at our purse strings.

I know that. But It takes more than one or two generations to make you British.
Is that so? Does British soil exude some odd form of radiation or something? You're going to have explain the logic behind this, and I feel I'm being generous with the term logic here.
Why would Jews be friends with a person who are openly anti-semantic. And vis-versa.
There are different types of racism. There's racism wherein you ride around in a pickup truck with a confederate flag and some rope, and there's racism where you're just helping and befriending those poor, inferior darkies.

I also want to point out here how hilarious it is when people accused of racism shout out, "But I have a black friend! And an Asian friend! And an Indian friend! See, I made sure I'm not racist, you just gotta catch 'em all!" People, and races, are not pokemon; asserting "friendship" does not denote absence of bigotry.
Former-racist-immigrant-friend actually. Besides his family live on benefits and live in a council house- their not even British.
You never really explained why he was racist other than claiming this "friend" believed that British people were ignorant. If he had been, say, of the royal family or whatever and held the same belief, would you have claimed it as racist? I'm not even disputing whether or not it is, actually, bigotry.
The story of Britain is of being invaded by a superior force. Then creating the best empire the world has ever seen. Then turning into spineless idealists and being invaded by a tide of immigrants.

lulz to this.

I know that. But It takes more than one or two generations to make you British.

Why?

Why?

Because one can only be considered a Briton if he was a Briton for the last (arbitrary number) generations.

Now, where have we heard this before...?

So now I'm racist and a backstabber?

You said immigrants out. I highly doubt your black friend, if he even exist, turned up prior to 1948.


I know, but why come here? why not some where else?

Because here is good. Most people here are nice. It's people like you making this country look bad.

Being born here and your ancestors being born here.

What if your ancestors were born here in 1947? Does that mean you get kicked out?

And you're willing to make more people ("British people") unemployed to make sure that only "British people" are employed.
yep

So you don't know what you're talking about then?
Nah, I thought it was 6 but he said 3

It shows that you're factually wrong - again.
Better than being entirely wrong

And of course, the UK should never have been an empire, because then they wouldn't have immigrated... Etc. ad nauseum.
No, I love the fact that we had a great empire, I just don't like the consequence's .

Therefore you'd happily shove him in front of the train - since he never "belonged" in the train station in the first place.
If I was merely returning what the train station had lost.

I understood that. There are nasty foreigners there, taking the jobs of British footballers, and stealing their money.
Nah, it's not just the foreign players, it's the game in general, everyone gets paid masses more than they should. What David Beckham gets paid in a day it take's my mum many years to earn. Who needs that much money any way?



Is that so? Does British soil exude some odd form of radiation or something? You're going to have explain the logic behind this, and I feel I'm being generous with the term logic here.
Yep British soil has something special in it. Of course it dosent, alls I'm saying is Britain would be better of without immigrants.
There are different types of racism. There's racism wherein you ride around in a pickup truck with a confederate flag and some rope, and there's racism where you're just helping and befriending those poor, inferior darkies.

I also want to point out here how hilarious it is when people accused of racism shout out, "But I have a black friend! And an Asian friend! And an Indian friend! See, I made sure I'm not racist, you just gotta catch 'em all!" People, and races, are not pokemon; asserting "friendship" does not denote absence of bigotry.
Trust me I'm not racist. To have a black friend round where I live is rare because there are so few. That's a pretty racist remark you just made neway.
You never really explained why he was racist other than claiming this "friend" believed that British people were ignorant. If he had been, say, of the royal family or whatever and held the same belief, would you have claimed it as racist? I'm not even disputing whether or not it is, actually, bigotry.

He say's he hate this country and the people in it. To me that's racist to hate all British people.

I see not the point in arguing with some one who puts up nothing to argue against. If you say someone is wrong it does not make them wrong. Your not a god. You clearly have deluded yourself with visions of grandeur.

I HAVE put up facts against your poorly-thought delusions. You shrugged them off with an "I don't care". I see no reason to try and argue with you any longer. I will, now, do as a teacher does to a bad student and merely chastise you.

Yep British soil has something special in it. Of course it dosent, alls I'm saying is Britain would be better of without immigrants.

Every single race on the island of Britain immigrated here within the last 3,000 years, so nobody here is a native. Particularly not the English.

But I have a black friend!

But that's what you just did.



He say's he hate this country and the people in it. To me that's racist to hate all British people.

Britain isn't a country, and British isn't a race.

I HAVE put up facts against your poorly-thought delusions. You shrugged them off with an "I don't care". I see no reason to try and argue with you any longer. I will, now, do as a teacher does to a bad student and merely chastise you.
That's a bit hard to do over the internet, I doubt you'll succeed. You'll probaly get bored of me always being right after while.
Every single race on the island of Britain immigrated here within the last 3,000 years, so nobody here is a native. Particularly not the English.
That is epicly long ago though I'm talking about here and now


But that's what you just did.
I didn't think your supposed to edit peoples quotes like that




Britain isn't a country, and British isn't a race.
Britain is used with casual reference to the UK actually. It's like calling the USA America.

Yep British soil has something special in it. Of course it dosent, alls I'm saying is Britain would be better of without immigrants.
That is one of the things you've said, but the precise thing I was inquiring about was this process of Anglicizing you seem to be positing and as to its exact mechanism. You're not so much evading the question here as you are talking about urinary tract disorders when I'm asking about a musical genres.
Trust me I'm not racist. To have a black friend round where I live is rare because there are so few. That's a pretty racist remark you just made neway.
Eh, it might be called stereotyping, though, really, it's positing a caricature to highlight a point. Are you saying that a person who happens to drive a pickup truck and believes in a resurrection of the Confederate States while on the prowl for lynch victims is not racist?

Why should I "trust" that you're not racist when everything you've said in this thread leads me to believe otherwise? And, again, you're apparently treating your black friend like a fucking pokemon or Magic card. That, in and of itself, is a vein racism all unto itself.
He say's he hate this country and the people in it. To me that's racist to hate all British people.

I question how you, as a British "person" (note, not citizen, but you apparently possess some British quality of personhood that so many others do not), came to befriend one so bigoted towards Brits.

You're not so much evading the question here as you are talking about urinary tract disorders when I'm asking about a musical genres.

I giggled. :D

That's a bit hard to do over the internet, I doubt you'll succeed. You'll probaly get bored of me always being right after while.

Thing is, you're so epically wrong, xenophobic and fail-ish, you've got me, NSG's resident Islamophobe arguing on the side of H2. That's not an easy thing to do, trust me.

I didn't think your supposed to edit peoples quotes like that

Ah, no, I didn't mean for it to look like that. What I meant is you earlier said "OMG I HAZ A BLACK FREND IZ NOT RASIST LOLLOL" then complained about people doing just that.

Britain is used with casual reference to the UK actually. It's like calling the USA America.

Well, British still isn't a race.

a) the scot's never took England entirely
I'm not talking about the Jacobite wars (which is what I think you're referencing), I'm talking about how the Scots, along with innumerable other groups, are immigrants; the Scots were an Irish tribe which settled (largely peacefully, IIRC) in what is now known as Scotland.

This story repeats itself time and time again in British history; the peoples that now make up the British citizenry are from a long line of immigrants. It's an oft-used term, but Britain really is a mongrel nation.

If you wish to remove those with immigrant ancestors, then all you'd be left with is some poor sod whose family hasn't bred with anyone else for 10,000 years.

Thing is, you're so epically wrong, xenophobic and fail-ish, you've got me, NSG's resident Islamophobe arguing on the side of H2. That's not an easy thing to do, trust me.

What's the name of the trope of heroes and villains fighting against a bigger threat? :p

That is one of the things you've said, but the precise thing I was inquiring about was this process of Anglicizing you seem to be positing and as to its exact mechanism. You're not so much evading the question here as you are talking about urinary tract disorders when I'm asking about a musical genres.
Soz I dunno what you asked me in the first place plz repeat.
Eh, it might be called stereotyping, though, really, it's positing a caricature to highlight a point. Are you saying that a person who happens to drive a pickup truck and believes in a resurrection of the Confederate States while on the prowl for lynch victims is not racist?

Why should I "trust" that you're not racist when everything you've said in this thread leads me to believe otherwise? And, again, you're apparently treating your black friend like a fucking pokemon or Magic card. That, in and of itself, is a vein racism all unto itself.
Pokemon? come on what is this the 90's? I say friend loosely, he's more of an acquaintance( and he's mixed race neway.)

I question how you, as a British "person" (note, not citizen, but you apparently possess some British quality of personhood that so many others do not), came to befriend one so bigoted towards Brits.
oh, I used to be more of a communist when I was very young and so was he. But then I turned full circle and went to the right while he choose to insult our way of life.

(largely peacefully, IIRC)

So Picts are still around up your way, then?

What's the name of the trope of heroes and villains fighting against a bigger threat? :p

The Cool Crew. I get to be leader.

Ah, no, I didn't mean for it to look like that. What I meant is you earlier said "OMG I HAZ A BLACK FREND IZ NOT RASIST LOLLOL" then complained about people doing just that.

He basically reminds me of the guy who says "I'm not racist, one of my best friends is a dirty ******." :p

while he choose to insult our way of life.

Does he refuse to shoot immigrants or something then?

He basically reminds me of the guy who says "I'm not racist, one of my best friends is a dirty ******." :p

Lol, I know. At least I can admit out and out I'm an Islamophobe.

But then I turned full circle and went to the right while he choose to insult our way of life.
'Our way of life' being that way which is multiracial, informed by multiple cultures from around the globe.

What 'Britain' do you exist in where there is only 'white' culture?

The Cool Crew. I get to be leader.

Damn, I should have called shotgun.

What 'Britain' do you exist in where there is only 'white' culture?

Clearly you haven't visited Real Britain, Real America's tea drinking cousin.

Lol, I know. At least I can admit out and out I'm an Islamophobe.

THAT we discuss when we're done with HIM. ;)

Damn, I should have called shotgun.

You can be the cool violent one who the rest have to keep holding bet until we let you loose at the right moment, tearing your opponent to shreds with vicious facts and well timed sources.

'Our way of life' being that way which is multiracial, informed by multiple cultures from around the globe.

What 'Britain' do you exist in where there is only 'white' culture?
It's called Thanet, look it up
Lol, I know. At least I can admit out and out I'm an Islamophobe.
I believe I have already said that I am an Islamophobe and that I am perhaps a little xenophobic.

THAT we discuss when we're done with HIM. ;)

But he hasn't posted for a while. I think we scared him off.

It's called Thanet, look it up

That's an island in the Thames, what does it add to your point?

I believe I have already said that I am an Islamophobe and that I am perhaps a little xenophobic.

You're more than a little xenophobic, ridiculously Islamophobic (even moreso than me), and you're racist.

Yep
So you don't really care about British jobs for "British people", you're just looking for an excuse to boot out the foreigners.

Better than being entirely wrong
Oh you seem to be entirely wrong as well, but it's easier to call you on the factual errors you keep making.

No, I love the fact that we had a great empire, I just don't like the consequence's .
Nice contradiction there.

If I was merely returning what the train station had lost.
So you would happily assist in the torture and murder of someone, as long as you didn't do it directly yourself?


Nah, it's not just the foreign players...
But apparently, it is in part.


Of course it dosent, alls I'm saying is Britain would be better of without immigrants.
And you're making a piss-poor effort at defending or backing up that statement.

Trust me I'm not racist.
More like a xenophobe?

That's an island in the Thames, what does it add to your point?



You're more than a little xenophobic, ridiculously Islamophobic (even moreso than me), and you're racist.

It's not in the Thames and it is where I live

I'm not fucking racist

You can be the cool violent one who the rest have to keep holding bet until we let you loose at the right moment, tearing your opponent to shreds with vicious facts and well timed sources.

Nice. I'm in.

It's not in the Thames and it is where I live

Yeah, and that's Thames Estuary.

I'm not fucking racist

Sure.

I'm not fucking racist

Fascinating. I can't help but notice that you ONLY denied "racist" out of three adjectives.

You take offense to that last one? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ITakeOffenseToThatLastOne)

It's called Thanet, look it up
And nobody in Thanet eats anything but meat and two veg? Nobody's ever had a curry in Thanet?

Nobody owns a wok?

Nobody ever listens to hip-hop? Ska? Reggae? Blues? Jazz?

Nobody ever reads anything but Anglo-Saxon literature?

Nobody ever views art made by non-white folk?

Nobody uses any technology created in, say, Japan? No Playstations or Wiis in Thanet?

I believe I have already said that I am an Islamophobe and that I am perhaps a little xenophobic.
These are Bad Things, not badges of pride.

Fascinating. I can't help but notice that you ONLY denied "racist" out of three adjectives.

You take offense to that last one? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ITakeOffenseToThatLastOne)

I've already admitted the first two why would I deny them now

God I hate arguing with more than one person

Soz I dunno what you asked me in the first place plz repeat.
Only what many, many others in this thread have continuously asked, as well. How does one become "British"? Define this in such a way that your weird deportation scheme with its (great)grandfather clause isn't inherently in contradiction to.
Pokemon? come on what is this the 90's? I say friend loosely, he's more of an acquaintance( and he's mixed race neway.)

So even your "I Can Haz Blak Frnd" bit is falling through? You have a black acquaintance and are thus, surely, not a racist!

God I hate arguing with more than one person

Because you dislike being pointed out how painfully wrong you are by a multitude of people vastly more intelligent and experienced than you.

And nobody in Thanet eats anything but meat and two veg? Nobody's ever had a curry in Thanet?

Nobody owns a wok?

Nobody ever listens to hip-hop? Ska? Reggae? Blues? Jazz?

Nobody ever reads anything but Anglo-Saxon literature?

Nobody ever views art made by non-white folk?

Nobody uses any technology created in, say, Japan? No Playstations or Wiis in Thanet?


These are Bad Things, not badges of pride.

I am not saying they are badges of pride, but at least I can admit to my so called flaws unlike you.

Nobody eats haggis here either

I've already admitted the first two why would I deny them now

God I hate arguing with more than one person

Xenophobia and Islamophobia are flaws, as I'm not sure you are aware.

Interesting article, I have a Muslim friend from Yemen I think, he pretty much acts like everyone else here. Here, as in America, not Britain, but that's besides the point.

I can admit to my so called flaws unlike you.

Actually, in one of mine and Heikoku's frequent arguments, he admitted that he was arrogant and immodest. You lose, yet again.

Nobody eats haggis here either

Lolwut?

Nobody eats haggis here either

You DO, however, use electricity.

Invented by an American.

And you DO, however, use a computer.

With quite a few Japanese and Japanese-perfected parts.

Of course, without those, you'd not be in this forum, annoying us, so you might be on to something.

I am not saying they are badges of pride, but at least I can admit to my so called flaws unlike you.
Now, now, no need to get sarky.

Nobody eats haggis here either
So what are you saying?

Nobody does own a wok in Thanet?

Xenophobia and Islamophobia are flaws, as I'm not sure you are aware.
I am aware. And you have no flaws at all I suppose
Because you dislike being pointed out how painfully wrong you are by a multitude of people vastly more intelligent and experienced than you.
Experienced maybe, but I doubt more Intelligent, you for one seem to lack that which you claim.

I am aware. And you have no flaws at all I suppose

As I previously stated, he admitted his flaws.

Experienced maybe, but I doubt more Intelligent, you for one seem to lack that which you claim.

Lol, a 15 year old UKIP supporter who thinks leaving the EU is a good idea is more intelligent than me.

Actually, in one of mine and Heikoku's frequent arguments, he admitted that he was arrogant and immodest. You lose, yet again.

I kinda like to team up with ya.

Folks, let's not descend this into a name-calling sesh.

I am aware.
If you are aware they are flaws (and nobody is saying that they are flawless) then why do you support policies which embody such flaws?

I kinda like to team up with ya.

Yeah, we should do this more often.

I am aware. And you have no flaws at all I suppose

I'm an arrogant, presumptuous braggard.

These are flaws. However, I'm pretty sure civilization as we know it could survive if everyone had them. Your flaws? Not so much.

This proposal is going nowhere until Ring manages to objectively define British. Guess those immigrants can sleep, work and eat in peace for the forseeable future then.

Actually, in one of mine and Heikoku's frequent arguments, he admitted that he was arrogant and immodest. You lose, yet again.

Well that was pretty obvious anyway.



You DO, however, use electricity.

Invented by an American.

And you DO, however, use a computer.

With quite a few Japanese and Japanese-perfected parts.

Of course, without those, you'd not be in this forum, annoying us, so you might be on to something.
a) no one invented electricity
b) AC was first tested by a brit and a frog
c) the first computer was invented by brits, it was the enigma
Now, now, no need to get sarky.


So what are you saying?

Nobody does own a wok in Thanet?
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, though it seems that few on this forum can attain it.
Yes of course people own woks and whatnot

This proposal is going nowhere until Ring manages to objectively define British. Guess those immigrants can sleep, work and eat in peace for the forseeable future then.

The nice thing is as soon as he gets the brains needed to define these concepts he'll reject that silly little notion of his because it's simply too dumb.

You DO, however, use electricity.

Invented by an American.

Weeeell... That's not accurate. Electricity is a natural force and not something that was invented. And it was discovered long before...

But I nitpick, since you don't have a Chinatown :p

Folks, let's not descend this into a name-calling sesh.


If you are aware they are flaws (and nobody is saying that they are flawless) then why do you support policies which embody such flaws?

You are yet to state your flaws

a) no one invented electricity
b) AC was first tested by a brit and a frog
c) the first computer was invented by brits, it was the enigma

Fine: DISCOVERED and HARNESSED by an American.

And the Japanese improved computers quite a lot, in the likely case you were unaware.

Tell me something, though: Did you really assume for one moment that you could even slow me down by discussing SEMANTICS? With ME? That's like attacking a samurai with a butter knife!

a) no one invented electricity

Harnessed the use of it for power etc. then.

c) the first computer was invented by brits, it was the enigma

He said with quite a few Japanese parts. The Japanese took our initial thoughts and flew with them, giving us almost out entire electronic good trade that we have today.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, though it seems that few on this forum can attain it.

Insulting almost the entire forum now, are we?

Yes of course people own woks and whatnot

So Thanet isn't an entirely white, English, Anglo-Saxon island then? It does have elements of other cultures?

Europe has Ebil Muzloms? :eek:

Europe has Ebil Muzloms? :eek:

60 % of Albania is Muslim, 40% of Bosnia, and there are 2 or so million in the U.K. Not sure about the other European countries.

Insulting almost the entire forum now, are we?


Well if almost the entire forum tries to insult me then what can I do.
Fine: DISCOVERED and HARNESSED by an American.

And the Japanese improved computers quite a lot, in the likely case you were unaware.

Tell me something, though: Did you really assume for one moment that you could even slow me down by discussing SEMANTICS? With ME? That's like attacking a samurai with a butter knife!
If the samurai was sleeping then I imagine I could do a good deal of damage to him with a butter knife.

I grow weary of you, Bye Bye

He said with quite a few Japanese parts. The Japanese took our initial thoughts and flew with them, giving us almost out entire electronic good trade that we have today.

Including, yes, the kind of mechanism by which the Internet exists.

To be sure, the Internet also needs telephone lines.

Invented by an American.

So, really, let's see here, Isengard's ideal England would be one with essentially 1700's technology with a few tidbits of newer ones made entirely in England, plus the Beatles and Monty Python.

Well if almost the entire forum tries to insult me then what can I do.

It's like 4/5 people at the most, and we're not insulting you, just pointing out how painfully wrong you are.

If the samurai was sleeping then I imagine I could do a good deal of damage to him with a butter knife.

Before he woke up and beheaded you.

I grow weary of you, Bye Bye

Or you're off to bed because it's 10 o'clock and mummy wants you tucked up for school tomorrow. Oh wait, I forgot, you took all your GCSEs 2 years before you were meant to and now attend college.

Experienced maybe, but I doubt more Intelligent...

So how about proving it? I for one have asked several things that you have yet to answer.

I've posed several serious practical challenges to the idea of deporting all "immigrants" that have come to the UK since 1948 that you keep defending and that you have chosen not to reply to.

I've asked you to back up the claim that foreigners are somehow stealing British jobs.

I've asked you to explain what would make one British, and why you would need generations to fulfill any criteria.

I've asked you if you're OK with being an acessory to torture, rape and murder, and why - and why you would be OK with that but upset that someone on your block doesn't have a job.

What you have done so far, is being wrong on a lot of factual claims.
What you have not done so far, is being successful in defending your position or persuading me to even consider coming around to your way of thinking.

You have admited being islamophobic and xenophobic, and that reflects poorly on you. But that's also something that could be cleared up with some further education.

If the samurai was sleeping then I imagine I could do a good deal of damage to him with a butter knife.

Oh wow.

Okay, NNLDI, you solve this while I'm paralyzed with laughter.

Edit: Thanks.

So, really, let's see here, Isengard's ideal England would be one with essentially 1700's technology with a few tidbits of newer ones made entirely in England, plus the Beatles and Monty Python.

But the wheel was invented in Sumeria! The Beatles played guitars, originally form Africa! I think he'd prefer it if we were back hunting deer and boor with spears again, just like we did 5,000 fucking years ago, before those immigrant Celts turned up.

But the wheel was invented in Sumeria! The Beatles played guitars, originally form Africa! I think he'd prefer it if we were back hunting deer and boor with spears again, just like we did 5,000 fucking years ago, before those immigrant Celts turned up.

Oh, you're right. My bad.

So, we'd be discussing with him through... Bottles with paper and... Wait. Those aren't English either.

Edit: Thanks.

No problem, I'm off to watch the news, maybe they'll tell me how many more British people have been murdered and their jobs stolen by bloodsucking immigrants. Don't take all my fun while I'm gone.

a) no one invented electricity
b) AC was first tested by a brit and a frog
c) the first computer was invented by brits, it was the enigma

I'm surprised no-one has yet pointed out that the enigma was a German invention.

I assume you mean the Bombe which was used to break the enigma codes, an idea inspired by the Polish designed bomba kryptologiczna.

So, we'd be discussing with him through... Bottles with paper and... Wait. Those aren't English either.

We could talk to him telepathically with tea leaves? Oh wait, they first grew in India.

Yes of course people own woks and whatnot
Then you see that modern British culture is essentially multiracial/multiethnic.

I don't doubt that you have genuine worries and fears about those close to you that you see being made unemployed etc., especially at the moment. But blaming immigrants or non-'British' people is absurd; believing that forcibly removing them will make things better, even more so.

You are yet to state your flaws
I was under the impression this thread was about Muslims in Europe/immigrants in Britain, not the content of my various flaws.

60 % of Albania is Muslim, 40% of Bosnia, and there are 2 or so million in the U.K. Not sure about the other European countries.

7 to 8 million in America according to Newsweek from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_America#Demographics


So, once again, US gottcha beat, lol...We totally got more Muslims than you :p

So, once again, US gottcha beat, lol...We totally got more Muslims than you :p

We win percentage wise, though, so it's all good. Or bad, depending on how you see it.

So, once again, US gottcha beat, lol...We totally got more Muslims than you :p

Yeah, but we've still got all our sky-scrapers. :p

We win percentage wise, though, so it's all good. Or bad, depending on how you see it.

Meh, I see it neutral cause Im not really religious...But, I just thought itd be funny as hell to turn it into a competition, :rolleyes:

why do canadians involve themselves with world affairs?

Fine: DISCOVERED and HARNESSED by an American.
Weeell... It was discovered around 600BC, if not earlier ;)


c) the first computer was invented by brits, it was the enigma
Weeell...

That's not right - though you should define what you mean by "computer".


To be sure, the Internet also needs telephone lines.

Invented by an American.
Weeell...

There's debate about who shoudl be credited with the invention of the phone (and phone line) - but regardless, the line itself isn't that different from the telegraph line invented much earlier? Not by Americans, but by British and Russians etc.

/nitpicky :p

Well if almost the entire forum tries to insult me then what can I do.

What does one usually do on a debating forum?

Weeell... It was discovered around 600BC, if not earlier ;)

Weeell...

There's debate about who shoudl be credited with the invention of the phone (and phone line) - but regardless, the line itself isn't that different from the telegraph line invented much earlier? Not by Americans, but by British and Russians etc.

/nitpicky :p

So, this is the "Mr. Monk visits the Internet Forum" Monk episode? :p

I'm surprised no-one has yet pointed out that the enigma was a German invention.

I assume you mean the Bombe which was used to break the enigma codes, an idea inspired by the Polish designed bomba kryptologiczna.

The Enigma machine wasn't really a computer as such either. More like a gloryfied typewriter :p

why do canadians involve themselves with world affairs?

Because they're all high on weed.

The Enigma machine wasn't really a computer as such either. More like a gloryfied typewriter :p

I know this. But then again I also know invented the thing.

It's like 4/5 people at the most, and we're not insulting you, just pointing out how painfully wrong you are.


Or you're off to bed because it's 10 o'clock and mummy wants you tucked up for school tomorrow. Oh wait, I forgot, you took all your GCSEs 2 years before you were meant to and now attend college.
Dude how old are you, like 12? Do you really have to descend to that level. I was not going to bed I was having a shower.
So how about proving it? I for one have asked several things that you have yet to answer.

I've posed several serious practical challenges to the idea of deporting all "immigrants" that have come to the UK since 1948 that you keep defending and that you have chosen not to reply to.

I've asked you to back up the claim that foreigners are somehow stealing British jobs.
All British jobs should first be given to British workers, and then to immigrants. they are stealing our jobs, there are 3mil unemployed brits and about the same number of immigrants working in this country. Why should British born people be unemployed why immigrants have jobs that could be theirs?

I've asked you to explain what would make one British, and why you would need generations to fulfill any criteria.
It's not so much about generations,being British certainly has nothing to do with that ridiculously easy test immigrants have to take to get in. If you go in to generations and shit like that, then what about the US or Australia, none of them are truly from there except for the abariginies and the native Americans.
[QUOTE]I've asked you if you're OK with being an acessory to torture, rape and murder, and why - and why you would be OK with that but upset that someone on your block doesn't have a job.
As I've said British people shouldn't be homeless or unemployed when the are immigrants in council houses and taking jobs.
What you have done so far, is being wrong on a lot of factual claims.
What you have not done so far, is being successful in defending your position or persuading me to even consider coming around to your way of thinking.

How would you feel if you lost your job and your house, while your immigrant neighbour had both?
You have admited being islamophobic and xenophobic, and that reflects poorly on you. But that's also something that could be cleared up with some further education.
It is not a question of education I think, more of getting a fair deal for British people.

a) no one invented electricity
b) AC was first tested by a brit and a frog
c) the first computer was invented by brits, it was the enigma

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, though it seems that few on this forum can attain it.
Yes of course people own woks and whatnot

Um, the Enigma machine was a) not a computer, and b) German. Try again please. If you want a hint, you're looking for ENIAC, which was built in America, and was the father of modern computers.

I'm surprised no-one has yet pointed out that the enigma was a German invention.

I assume you mean the Bombe which was used to break the enigma codes, an idea inspired by the Polish designed bomba kryptologiczna.

I was going to pick up on that.

RoI, you still have not defined what it actually is to be British. Am I British - I moved here from Pakistan in 1999.

Edit: or are you going to say to my face I should be deported?

Then you see that modern British culture is essentially multiracial/multiethnic.

I don't doubt that you have genuine worries and fears about those close to you that you see being made unemployed etc., especially at the moment. But blaming immigrants or non-'British' people is absurd; believing that forcibly removing them will make things better, even more so.


I was under the impression this thread was about Muslims in Europe/immigrants in Britain, not the content of my various flaws.
I thought you might say something like that, so you can criticize me for my flaws and yet not admit your own.
Um, the Enigma machine was a) not a computer, and b) German. Try again please. If you want a hint, you're looking for ENIAC, which was built in America, and was the father of modern computers.



I was going to pick up on that.

RoI, you still have not defined what it actually is to be British. Am I British - I moved here from Pakistan in 1999.

Edit: or are you going to say to my face I should be deported?
Well do you want an honest answer or a PC answer?
If I think that you should be deported or not is not something that someone would normally say to someone else's face.
If I said yes you would probably report me, but what do you want honest or woried that I might be banned from the forum answer?

Um, the Enigma machine was a) not a computer, and b) German. Try again please. If you want a hint, you're looking for ENIAC, which was built in America, and was the father of modern computers.

I think I'd like to reclaim the first computer for the Brits.

The Colossus Mark 1 was the first fully electronic, programmable computer.

Well do you want an honest answer or a PC answer?
If I think that you should be deported or not is not something that someone would normally say to someone else's face.
If I said yes you would probably report me, but what do you want honest or woried that I might be banned from the forum answer?

I want a straight answer - I want to know if you're willing to follow up on your ideas when it's dealing with people you at least vaguely know.

Of course, the answer is obvious already - if it had been a "No", you would have said so, not been evasive about it.

Edit@Fartsniffage. Yes, I know about the Colossus. There is also the Analytical Engine of Charles Babbage, although that was never built. However, both Colossus and the Analytical Engine were evolutionary dead ends, abortive attempts before the first real success. ENIAC is still the father of modern computers, because they are basically all descended from it.

I think I'd like to reclaim the first computer for the Brits.

The Colossus Mark 1 was the first fully electronic, programmable computer.

That was the thing I think I meant, maybe

That was the thing I think I meant, maybe

If you didn't even know that Enigma wasn't British, I doubt you know enough about the history of cryptography to have heard of Colossus.

I want a straight answer - I want to know if you're willing to follow up on your ideas when it's dealing with people you at least vaguely know.

Of course, the answer is obvious already - if it had been a "No", you would have said so, not been evasive about it.

Well I guess you guessed it then,

But if I where really making the decision I would like to know more about you.
For instance what in your mind makes you British?
What do you do?
How old were you when you came here?

EDIT: plz do not be offended but I have to stick to my views.

I thought you might say something like that, so you can criticize me for my flaws and yet not admit your own.
My flaws do not impinge on this discussion, for I do not, I believe, hold irrational fears or prejudice against those with a different ancestral background to myself.

But, not to deflect you from answering a question, you do now see that British culture is essentially multiracial/multiethnic, yes?