NationStates Jolt Archive

Wonderful. So what? Anyway, it's easy to support him from the cheap seats. But my job involves working with Iraqis, including members of their military. So far, they have been almost uniformly downbeat by this election. They're wondering what the future holds for them and whether they can continue to rely on America. I can't really give then any reassurance at this point.
did you read the speech by karzie (sp?) this morning . .. he essentially begged Obama to get the troops out so they'd stop killing his civilians.

Why? People on this board aren't part of my life. Who cares if they think poorly of me? There's no real downside to my antagonism.
I'm killing time here while I wait for my dinner reservations. I'm not being paid to make my arguments here, so I am not going to bother to go out and do research or provide sources. I'm basically just stating my opinion here, not arguing in front of a court (though, I'm not a litigator, anyway)
No your not. Any guess folks? my bet is 16 ish. Neo-con type cause he thinks that makes him cool. Definatly no more a lawyer than I am a Mechanic.

He doesn't want US troops out of Afghanistan, he wants civilian casualties from friendly fire to stop.

Oh yeah? The same military that gave overwhelmingly to Obama over McCain? The same military whose has a nice sized list of retired admirals and generals who back Obama?

The IAVA - Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America that grades senators every year and gave McCain a D while giving Obama a B?

That's the military that is up in arms over Obama getting elected?

Very well stated. I feel terrible for our men and women in uniform, bound by their oaths to serve under this person. We'll probably see a hollowing out of the military, like we did during the Clinton years. Our enemies will, rightly, see us as weak. And, once the inevitable happens, the blood of Americans will be on the hands of the so-called President and the fools who voted for him.

Our enemies already see us as weak. And the blood of 4000 Americans is on the hands of the soon to be ex-President Bush.

yes that post is a very late response - shut up :P

But... But... The troops are Real Americans... They must support the Republican Party...

No your not. Any guess folks? my bet is 16 ish. Neo-con type cause he thinks that makes him cool. Definatly no more a lawyer than I am a Mechanic.

Yes, I note that he did not respond to the section of my post that compared him to an angry teen.

yes that post is a very late response - shut up :P

"That post is a very late..."

:D

Why? People on this board aren't part of my life. Who cares if they think poorly of me? There's no real downside to my antagonism.
I'm killing time here while I wait for my dinner reservations. I'm not being paid to make my arguments here, so I am not going to bother to go out and do research or provide sources. I'm basically just stating my opinion here, not arguing in front of a court (though, I'm not a litigator, anyway)

I honestly doubt what you say is true, and if it is, I am amazed you got a degree.

I'm a conservative. I did not want President-Elect Barack Obama to win. I wanted Senator John McCain to. It was not pleasant for me to watch Obama trounce McCain.

That said, once Obama reached 270, I let it go. It was now in the past. There is no reason to fight it, no reason to curse it. While I still disagree with President-Elect Obama on most issues, I extend my full support to him, because, these are the cards that have been dealt to me.

Obama's a good man. I believe that while his plans on how to help America aren't the right way, he has the best intentions for America. I was proud to be an American on Election Day 1996, 2000, and 2004 (I don't really remember 1992, I was 1). I saw no reason why I shouldn't have been proud to be an American on November 4, 2008 at 10:00 P.M. CST.

Congratulations, President-Elect Barack Obama. May your administration continue the American tradition of trying to be that shining city upon a hill.

Why? People on this board aren't part of my life. Who cares if they think poorly of me?

You make a laughing stock of the views you espouse. Kind of like Cheney 'endorsing' McCain, you do more harm to your hateful, warped and petty ideology than any of us could.

So, I guess one could say you might care, if you were clever enough to realize this.

I'm killing time here while I wait for my dinner reservations. I'm not being paid to make my arguments here, so I am not going to bother to go out and do research or provide sources.

Obviously you have time to kill, and you're not so indolent and apathetic as to be unable to respond (since, you know, you're responding to people). No, the reason you don't provide sources is because you don't have any, because what you say is meaningless drivel. And now you're just making excuses for the substandard quality of it.

I'm basically just stating my opinion here, not arguing in front of a court (though, I'm not a litigator, anyway)

I'm not a litigator and I'm not arguing in front of a court either. I don't have to be, in order to easily refute you.

It doesn't speak well of you that you seem to think simply supporting what you say requires litigation. It's like asking your friend to give you change for a dollar, and he complains that he's not a rocket scientist and can't be expected to do all that fancy math.

No, he's not. I wish him nothing but ill, and look forward to saying 'I told you so" repeatedly over the next 4 years to the fools who elected him.

You keep on looking forward, I'll see you in 4 years when he's re-elected by an even bigger landslide.

Yes, I note that he did not respond to the section of my post that compared him to an angry teen. I'm not all that angry. Just disgusted.

I'm not all that angry. Just disgusted.

Welcome to the minority, you'll get used to it.

I'm not all that angry. Just disgusted.

At least you admit you're acting like a teen.

politics.............. O.o


poly= many
tic= nasty bloodsucker

I honestly doubt what you say is true, and if it is, I am amazed you got a degree.

I'm a conservative. I did not want President-Elect Barack Obama to win. I wanted Senator John McCain to. It was not pleasant for me to watch Obama trounce McCain.

That said, once Obama reached 270, I let it go. It was now in the past. There is no reason to fight it, no reason to curse it. While I still disagree with President-Elect Obama on most issues, I extend my full support to him, because, these are the cards that have been dealt to me.

Obama's a good man. I believe that while his plans on how to help America aren't the right way, he has the best intentions for America. I was proud to be an American on Election Day 1996, 2000, and 2004 (I don't really remember 1992, I was 1). I saw no reason why I shouldn't have been proud to be an American on November 4, 2008 at 10:00 P.M. CST.

Congratulations, President-Elect Barack Obama. May your administration continue the American tradition of trying to be that shining city upon a hill.

Oh wow, you're really a kid then... You're the same age as my little sister. I feel so fucking old *is 21*

I'm not all that angry. Just disgusted.

Again, I'm a conservative. I'm also a teenager. But I am not angry or disgusted.

I wanted McCain, but since that's not the case, I have high hopes for Obama.

Welcome to the minority, you'll get used to it.

Now he gets to feel how I've felt for the last 8 years.

That's actually kind of amazing to me, looking back... for between a third and a half of my life, I've felt utterly disgusted and appalled by the leader of this country. A change from that is certainly nice.

Oh, btw, did you ever get my TG's?

I honestly doubt what you say is true, and if it is, I am amazed you got a degree. I guess there's not much I can do to convince you. And, frankly, I don't really care. This is the internet, after all, and anyone can claim to be anything, so you're free to think I am whatever you prefer me to be. That doesn't change my life one iota.

I'm a conservative. I did not want President-Elect Barack Obama to win.

. . . .

I don't really remember 1992, I was 1

God, how could a 17 year old conservative even exist...

Now he gets to feel how I've felt for the last 8 years.

Except he'll watch the country slowly improve and bitch about it, whereas we witnessed 8 years of Dubya plying his specialty: Running anything he's put in charge of into the ground.

Now he gets to feel how I've felt for the last 8 years.

With one important distinction. As much as we felt disenfranchised, as much as we were told we were wrong, as much as we were told to "get over it", we can look at this country now, 8 years later, see the disaster it is in, see the quagmire of war, the faltering economy, bumbling, fumbling incompetence at every turn, scandal after scandal after scandal, we can look at this Bush administration in all its horror and failure over 8 years and now stand, triumphantly knowing that, in the end, we were right, and the rest of the country now sees it.

I fear he will have no such moment.

you're free to think I am whatever you prefer me to be.

Nice to meet you, Miss Aensland. :D

so, the world will never be a perfect place.........thats sad

Again, I'm a conservative. I'm also a teenager. But I am not angry or disgusted.

I wanted McCain, but since that's not the case, I have high hopes for Obama.

At least you're willing to be somewhat bipartisan.

If McCain had won, (assuming that he had the kind of polling numbers for that to be realistic), I would have been angry at first, as I totally disagree with him on most things. But... I wouldn't have regarded him with the complete hatred and loathing with which I regard Bush. The difference being that I think McCain is a good man.

Nice to meet you, Miss Aensland. :D

Okay, no matter how pleasant a fantasy is, trying to lay it on top of a Bushevik is pretty vile and disgusting.

:tongue:

we (...) now stand, triumphantly knowing that, in the end, we were right, and the rest of the country now sees it.

Thank you.

God, how could a 17 year old conservative even exist...

I defy the norm a lot.

You know, since he mentioned the military, does he regard General Wesley Clark, Colin Powell, Admiral John Nathman, Merrill McPeak, the former Chief of Staff for the Air Force, as traitors?

Wes Clark? Yes. This is a man who, like Kerry, betrayed his subordinates to cover his own ass, and like Westmoreland, lied his ass off in his reports to make himself look good. There's REASON a lot of vets from the nineties bear this fuck-o a special kind of hate. He should be hung by his tie from the driveshaft of a CH-47 spooling up for a test flight.

Powell? Not so much, just an opportunist and a has-been who built much of his career on taking credit for the accomplishments and actions of his subordinates. Maybe he was a good officer thirty or forty years ago.

Wait, I take that back... Powell's a fucking scuzzbag politician. The son of a bitch ignored and belittled the guys who came home sick from "His" war.

McPeak was a disaster as an officer AND chief of staff-more along the lines of an educated idiot and supreme brown-noser than an actual traitor. McPeak did a lot of damage to his service during his time in.


To those who are now enthusiastic about serving under President Obama- please, go ahead. Be my guest, best of luck to you with that. Don't call me if you get any mystery illnesses or wounded doing U.N. duty (with three rounds total in your weapon, restrictive ROE, and no support), I'll tell you the same thing your Party told us in the nineties- "Cowboy up, if you die it's just a training accident."

At least Bush let our guys shoot BACK.

I defy the norm a lot.

I just can't see why anyone so young could possibly be conservative.

At least Bush let our guys shoot BACK.

But let's not talk about body armor.

With one important distinction. As much as we felt disenfranchised, as much as we were told we were wrong, as much as we were told to "get over it", we can look at this country now, 8 years later, see the disaster it is in, see the quagmire of war, the faltering economy, bumbling, fumbling incompetence at every turn, scandal after scandal after scandal, we can look at this Bush administration in all its horror and failure over 8 years and now stand, triumphantly knowing that, in the end, we were right, and the rest of the country now sees it.

I fear he will have no such moment.

Yes. But being able to say "we won!" is ever so much satisfying than saying "I told you so."

Also, I sent you a few TG's about the issue I had asked your advice on. I was redirected to a blank screen, though, so I don't know if they went through or not.

I just can't see why anyone so young could possibly be conservative.

While more young people tend to be liberal, I find that people have their most extreme political opinions usually in their late teens. Later they mellow out and start considering the opinions of others a bit more.

This is what I've noticed in my peers and myself in the last few years.

Nobody 17 is conservative or liberal, they're just mimicking what they got imprinted on.

To be fair though, the same could be said of many who are 27, 37.

But let's not talk about body armor.

Let's not talk about Eight years of cut budgets, no parts, no ammo, constant pell-mell deployments under restrictive ROE and being shot at with no body armour BEFORE 2000.

Let's not talk about guys killed in ambushes whose deaths are listed as "Training Accident" and whose families were denied survivor benefits.

Let's not talk about the Clinton-Era VA that frantically denied the side-effects from generation one Anthrax vaccine, pretended guys home from the gulf weren't exposed to chemical weapons or biohazards even though they had all the symptoms, and cut-back treatment.

Let's not talk about units being deployed 179 days so that the DoD wouldn't have to acknowledge the time deployed...over and over again.

Let's not discuss training standards lowered to the point that Abu Ghraib could happen, and the kids doing it thought that it was cool to videotape it and take pictures.

The joke we had in Haiti was "One for the warning shot, one for the crowd, and one for yourself so you don't feel it when the machetes come down."

I am given to understand a similar joke was common in Bosnia.

Let's not even THINK about Mogadishu, our brothers sent in without support or adequate intel, left to hang, their bodies dragged through the streets and teh bastard they were sent to apprehend getting a marine guard and state visit to the white-house two months later.

Let's not talk about Eight years of cut budgets, no parts, no ammo, constant pell-mell deployments under restrictive ROE and being shot at with no body armour BEFORE 2000.

Let's not talk about guys killed in ambushes whose deaths are listed as "Training Accident" and whose families were denied survivor benefits.

Let's not talk about the Clinton-Era VA that frantically denied the side-effects from generation one Anthrax vaccine, pretended guys home from the gulf weren't exposed to chemical weapons or biohazards even though they had all the symptoms, and cut-back treatment.

Let's not talk about units being deployed 179 days so that the DoD wouldn't have to acknowledge the time deployed...over and over again.

Let's not discuss training standards lowered to the point that Abu Ghraib could happen, and the kids doing it thought that it was cool to videotape it and take pictures.

The joke we had in Haiti was "One for the warning shot, one for the crowd, and one for yourself so you don't feel it when the machetes come down."

I am given to understand a similar joke was common in Bosnia.

Let's not even THINK about Mogadishu, our brothers sent in without support or adequate intel, left to hang, their bodies dragged through the streets and teh bastard they were sent to apprehend getting a marine guard and state visit to the white-house two months later.

Right, so it's back to "Blame Clinton." Is that gonna really be your argument here? Bush can't be so bad, because [you claim] Clinton era was bad?

You might want to switch to something more successful, like calling people who disagree with you not part of "Real America."

How am I feeling? Relieved, elated, and genuinely proud of my country for the first time in years.

While more young people tend to be liberal, I find that people have their most extreme political opinions usually in their late teens. Later they mellow out and start considering the opinions of others a bit more.

This is what I've noticed in my peers and myself in the last few years.

I actually was much more conservative in my late preteen-early teen years.

I feel fortunate to have been able to mellow out a little bit. I am still very conservative, but I'm not a jerk about it.

Really, I expect to stay very politically involved in the future. I have always held an interest in law and politics. I plan for that to be my career (Presidency is my dream goal, extremely unlikely but still there is a chance.)

Right, so it's back to "Blame Clinton." Is that gonna really be your argument here? Bush can't be so bad, because [you claim] Clinton era was bad?

You might want to switch to something more successful, like calling people who disagree with you not part of "Real America."

Calling them "Not Real Americans" wouldn't be true, Ssek. The body-armour issue's a sore spot for me-we needed it during the nineties and it wasn't provided, stocked, etc. etc, but it only got traction when someone the Left hated was in power-because the Media could make Congresscreeps listen to what servicemen had been trying to tell them for more than a decade during the previous administration.

Real americans voted for Obama to the tune of sixty-two million, and probably sometime next week, I'll not be quite so irritated about it. right now?

VERY irritated. Somewhat worried about how he's going to use all these neat powers Clinton didn't have, and more than a little bit hostile toward his many, adoring, idolizing fans, especially the ones that purport to be journalists.

I actually was much more conservative in my late preteen-early teen years.

I feel fortunate to have been able to mellow out a little bit. I am still very conservative, but I'm not a jerk about it.

Really, I expect to stay very politically involved in the future. I have always held an interest in law and politics. I plan for that to be my career (Presidency is my dream goal, extremely unlikely but still there is a chance.)

I was most extreme in my political views at age 16 I think. I drew hammer and sickle symbols on my backpack. Man, was I a dumbfuck, I thought I was a communist.

five, almost six years later, I've moderated significantly. I'm less left-wing than many, maybe even most on this forum, now, despite being a vote that the Democratic Party can basically always count on in presidential elections. Not because I'm a party line voter, but because I'm liberal enough so that I'll basically always agree with the Democratic Party's candidate rather than the Republican Party's.

It seems to be blame Clinton, and smear every officer who supports Obama. Now if he could actually back it up... And I've read both of Wes Clark's books, read up on him some, and I call BS on everything your spewing about him, and BS on Powell. All you have to do is read Powell's Wikipedia article to see how full of BS this guy is.

(Presidency is my dream goal, extremely unlikely but still there is a chance.)Hey, anything is possible. Who knows, we could be talking to a future. POTUS.
My dream is to attain the rank of Sergeant Major of the Army. :p
Unlikely, but I'm going to do my damnedest to make it happen.

How am I feeling? Relieved, elated, and genuinely proud of my country for the first time in years.
Michelle? Is that you?

Calling them "Not Real Americans" wouldn't be true, Ssek. The body-armour issue's a sore spot for me-we needed it during the nineties and it wasn't provided, stocked, etc. etc, but it only got traction when someone the Left hated was in power-because the Media could make Congresscreeps listen to what servicemen had been trying to tell them for more than a decade during the previous administration.

Real americans voted for Obama to the tune of sixty-two million, and probably sometime next week, I'll not be quite so irritated about it. right now?

VERY irritated. Somewhat worried about how he's going to use all these neat powers Clinton didn't have, and more than a little bit hostile toward his many, adoring, idolizing fans, especially the ones that purport to be journalists.

Yes. That is why the Republicans are probably cursing themselves right now for the PATRIOT Act

And it's why they should be extremely glad that they weren't foolish enough to destroy the filibuster as they were threatening to do a few years ago.

I'm kinda glad that the Democrats don't have a supermajority in the Senate. Makes things too easy. And this way, to stop a filibuster on a tough issue, they still have to convince a few Republicans.

Hey, anything is possible. Who knows, we could be talking to a future. POTUS.
My dream is to attain the rank of Sergeant Major of the Army. :p
Unlikely, but I'm going to do my damnedest to make it happen.

Work hard and work smart.

I was most extreme in my political views at age 16 I think. I drew hammer and sickle symbols on my backpack. Man, was I a dumbfuck, I thought I was a communist.

We were such tools weren't we back then?

It seems to be blame Clinton, and smear every officer who supports Obama. Now if he could actually back it up... And I've read both of Wes Clark's books, read up on him some, and I call BS on everything your spewing about him, and BS on Powell. All you have to do is read Powell's Wikipedia article to see how full of BS this guy is.

Blaming Clinton right now is fucking lame. He hasn't been in power for about 8 years. When Clinton left office I was 13. I'm 21 now.

Michelle? Is that you?

Bozo? Is that YOU?

:rolleyes:

Seriously, Myrmi. Up till when will you keep trying to call her unpatriotic? Quosque tandem?

Work hard and work smart.That's the plan. I plan to make E-9 in less than twenty-five years.

Yes. That is why the Republicans are probably cursing themselves right now for the PATRIOT Act

And it's why they should be extremely glad that they weren't foolish enough to destroy the filibuster as they were threatening to do a few years ago.

I'm kinda glad that the Democrats don't have a supermajority in the Senate. Makes things too easy. And this way, to stop a filibuster on a tough issue, they still have to convince a few Republicans.

Yeah, at first I was for the PATRIOT Act, but then I thought about it a couple years back. I looked at what it had done and what it didn't do.

What it did was everything that people feared about it.

What it didn't do was everything people hoped it would do.

I had a long talk with my dad this afternoon. He's very pestimistic, despite the fact he voted for Obama.

Anyway we looked at it this way. Obama is not just black. He's also part white. We felt that it's also a very symbolic way of blending two cultures, backgrounds, and societies together. It also in some ways melds East with West etc. And in looking at it from this viewpoint we felt that it is very amazing.

Calling them "Not Real Americans" wouldn't be true, Ssek. The body-armour issue's a sore spot for me-we needed it during the nineties and it wasn't provided, stocked, etc. etc, but it only got traction when someone the Left hated was in power-because the Media could make Congresscreeps listen to what servicemen had been trying to tell them for more than a decade during the previous administration.


I can understand all this. But the fact is the one responsible was Bush, as commander in chief, who sent our forces blithely to invade and occupy a country based on false pretexts. It wasn't "the Left" who sent them, armored or no.

You can point out Mogadishu and Bosnia if you like, but it doesn't compare at all in terms of scale of involvement and idiocy.

VERY irritated. Somewhat worried about how he's going to use all these neat powers Clinton didn't have

Well, again thanks to Bush and *his* adoring fans and handleers, we can kinda worry about that for every US president to come.

, and more than a little bit hostile toward his many, adoring, idolizing fans, especially the ones that purport to be journalists.

For your concerns with the military in general, about being somehow abandoned by Obama and forced to serve - I just don't understand, however. Because it seems the worst Obama could do to military personnel is take them out of Iraq. How is that so bad for military personnel?

We were such tools weren't we back then?

Yes. I look back and laugh at how foolish I was. This is why I do not support lowering the voting age. Just the drinking age (I think that if you are old enough to help decide who the 'leader of the free world' will be, and old enough to fight, kill and die for your country, you're old enough to have a drink).

Yeah, at first I was for the PATRIOT Act, but then I thought about it a couple years back. I looked at what it had done and what it didn't do.

What it did was everything that people feared about it.

What it didn't do was everything people hoped it would do.

I've always been of the opinion expressed by Benjamin Franklin in his line about giving up essential liberty for temporary security.

I am sad that Obama has been elected.
1. We are going to leave Iraq in an unresponsible way, the same way that caused half the totla casualties of the Vietnam war.
2. Who raises taxes in an economic depression?
3. The dow plunged 500 today after Obama was declared the winner, not a good sign.
4. McCain might be around for the next election to make up for Obama's mistakes.

I am sad that Obama has been elected.
1. We are going to leave Iraq in an unresponsible way, the same way that caused half the totla casualties of the Vietnam war.
We got into both wars in an irresponsible way.
2. Who raises taxes in an economic depression?
Not sure. But increasing public spending during one sometimes does, and you have to pay for that somehow.
3. The dow plunged 500 today after Obama was declared the winner, not a good sign.
The stock market is finnicky
4. McCain might be around for the next election to make up for Obama's mistakes.
He'd already have been the oldest president ever elected. Four years from now, he will be 76. It is extremely unlikely that he'll run again.

I am sad that Obama has been elected.
1. We are going to leave Iraq in an unresponsible way, the same way that caused half the totla casualties of the Vietnam war.
2. Who raises taxes in an economic depression?
3. The dow plunged 500 today after Obama was declared the winner, not a good sign.
4. McCain might be around for the next election to make up for Obama's mistakes.
...lolwut? o_0

Neither candidate was spectacular. There's a black guy in the White House. Yay? No. Just another politician. Same shit, different name.

I'm blue-eyed and I can't dance.

Ok, it's like saying ALL blue-eyed people cannot dance.

"2. Who raises taxes in an economic depression?"

I don't know, Franklin Delano Roosevelt?

I never said he wouldn't be a good leader. He just won't be a good leader for whites. He's going to wail on white people.
Because his mom and the grandmother he's mourning now are.....

So? If I was him, I would totally grind white American into the ground. Why WOULDN'T he? He and his party have total control. Short of a coup, nobody can stop him.
Because there are no white Democrats....

OH WAIT!

And because the cabinet he is considering is all black....


OH WAIT!

Seriously, get back under the bridge.

I am sad that Obama has been elected.
1. We are going to leave Iraq in an unresponsible way, the same way that caused half the totla casualties of the Vietnam war.


What? Source?

Pulling out of that country would be the best possible thing we could do for our country and our economy.

2. Who raises taxes in an economic depression?
Someone who wants to create government jobs and stimulate spending among consumers maybe?

3. The dow plunged 500 today after Obama was declared the winner, not a good sign.
The DOW plunges and skyrockets every other day.

4. McCain might be around for the next election to make up for Obama's mistakes.

Or retired (more than likely), or dead from natural causes.

Yep. Sorry, but you shit on an entire race for two hundreds years, and then give them absolute power, they're going to crush you. And I don't trust Obama to stop with white Americans; I reckon he'll come here.
Please stop projecting your racism about the Aborigines onto white America.

And because the cabinet he is considering is all black....Speaking of, anybody get the feeling a certain Sen. McCain will become "The Honorable" sometime around Jan. 20th? :p
It would do wonders for Obama's "reaching across the aisle" effort.

What is the matter with you?!
Well, his obsession with blacks murdering and oppressing whites should be an indicator, Vampire.

I checked his profile -

About New Potomac
Biography
Libertarian Neo-Conservative
Location
Washington, DC
Interests
Politics, International Arms Dealing
Occupation
Attorney

He's 32, old enough to know better than to be so antagonistic. He's an attorney (if he's being truthful) so he has the education to be able to express himself more intelligently and diplomatically. He's a libertarian neo-con so that more or less negates the previous two.

Seriously, NP, you make unsupportable blanket statements about 52% of the people of this country, a Senator who was just elected President and the majority of the people on NSG; a properly trained attorney would have supporting documentation immediately at hand ready to back up these statements.

If you are indeed, as you claim, an attorney, you could express yourself more logically, you could access facts and evidence, you would have down the basics of debate. You're expressing yourself like an angry teen, not a settled attorney of a certain age.


Could it be that he, in fact, is not what he says?

It is very possible that McCain could become "The Honorable". He would probably do a very good job at that post. I'm just glad everything went smoothly and my candidate of choice won.

Could it be that he, in fact, is not what he says?

I think "internet lawyer" is second only to "internet soldier" in lies told in order to seem credible.

Unfortunately for most who try to pretend, my profession does require a fair bit of intellect and reason. So the fakers are pretty easy to spot.

I think "internet lawyer" is second only to "internet soldier" in lies told in order to seem credible.

My 230 IQ and 11'' penis tell me that's not precisely true.

I think "internet lawyer" is second only to "internet soldier" in lies told in order to seem credible.

Unfortunately for most who try to pretend, my profession does require a fair bit of intellect and reason. So the fakers are pretty easy to spot.

And, interestingly, this guy has said hes both.

Again, when Obama wants revenge against whites, he'll attack Australia. We're easy beats.
And pretty much directly on the other side of the world.
Besides, no one would stand for it. Where would we get our Fosters? How could we disrespect the memory of Steve Irwin? and of Skippy?

My 230 IQ and 11'' penis tell me that's not precisely true.Sidis?
But you're dead! :eek:

Yeah, well I don't want to wait until 2012.

I now understand why start revolutions and riot. This is bullshit.

This isn't some game that was lost. This is the direction the country is going to head in for at least four years. And I don't like the looks of it.

To sum everything up: a very angry and confused WTF.
Welcome to the last 8 years of my life.

You know, politics has been shifting to be increasingly polarized. Bush was absolute master of this...disregarding those who disagreed, portraying them as the enemy.

Perhaps that is why you feel the way you do now...because your enemy is now your leader.

Luckily, there is a chance that Obama isn't the asshat Bush has been, and he may actually treat those who disagree with respect, rather than scorn.




How do I feel now?

The only word for it is hopeful. I'm looking to four years in which differences may be respected. Where civil rights may be expanded, rather than contracted. Four years in which I can travel overseas and not claim to be Canadian. Four years in which I can actually have some pride in my nation, rather than just my region, state, and city.

I understand that none of this may happen. That the wounds of 8 years may be too deep to heal, or that Obama might not be the right guy for the job...but, like I said, I'm hopeful.


I'm also more than happy to be able to go to all those conservatives who told me "Well, if you don't like it, then leave!" and say "This is why I stayed."

Could it be that he, in fact, is not what he says?

Well, libertarian and neoconservative are mutually exclusive, what with the former viewing any and all governmental intervention as illegitimate and the latter desiring global American hegemony.

That remark is not true, HK.



I highly doubt Americans thought, at any point, that the Dubya was a damn good president, as you put it.
Thank you.

Thank you.Contrary to popular Internet opinion, Americans are not total idiots. :p
A miracle, right?

Although I disagree with him on many political issues...in a way, I'm pretty OK with Obama winning. Maybe Whites will stop being subject to so much discrimination in the U.S. because of the "poor minority" needing a leg up. I think the election has shown handily that racism against Blacks is not a real power in this country anymore - something that has been said for over a decade now, but not believed (not even in the past few months!).

Speaking of, anybody get the feeling a certain Sen. McCain will become "The Honorable" sometime around Jan. 20th? :p
It would do wonders for Obama's "reaching across the aisle" effort.

It is a distinct possibility. As I think things do need to become a bit less polarized, even though I really disagree with McCain on a lot, I think this might be a good idea.

It is a distinct possibility. As I think things do need to become a bit less polarized, even though I really disagree with McCain on a lot, I think this might be a good idea.

I would be very pleased with such a situation.

Although I disagree with him on many political issues...in a way, I'm pretty OK with Obama winning. Maybe Whites will stop being subject to so much discrimination in the U.S. because of the "poor minority" needing a leg up. I think the election has shown handily that racism against Blacks is not a real power in this country anymore - something that has been said for over a decade now, but not believed (not even in the past few months!).

This post is funny for so many reasons.


Tell me, what discrimination have us poor oppressed white people experianced?

My 230 IQ and 11'' penis tell me that's not precisely true.

You don't want to have a penis that's incredibly long, as it won't do any good, considering that women are generally not that deep. What you want in your penis is reasonable length and impressive girth.

I'm also more than happy to be able to go to all those conservatives who told me "Well, if you don't like it, then leave!" and say "This is why I stayed."

I may be conservative, but that is a damn fine quote.

Although I disagree with him on many political issues...in a way, I'm pretty OK with Obama winning. Maybe Whites will stop being subject to so much discrimination in the U.S. because of the "poor minority" needing a leg up. I think the election has shown handily that racism against Blacks is not a real power in this country anymore - something that has been said for over a decade now, but not believed (not even in the past few months!).

One black male becoming president does not mean that discrimination against blacks is gone. By any means.

The amount of rage Im seeing from the far right is...well beyond my expectation. I really think a lot of them just didnt want a black man in charge.

This post is funny for so many reasons.


Tell me, what discrimination have us poor oppressed white people experianced?

Ten bucks says he's going to post something that contains either the phrase "affirmative action" or "quotas."

This post is funny for so many reasons.


Tell me, what discrimination have us poor oppressed white people experianced?

Well...there was that one time when...oh, never mind, that was a black guy.

What about...wait, Native American.

How about...Hispanic.

Yeah, the only time in the US when white people have been discriminated against is when other white people discriminated against them.

Ten bucks says he's going to post something that contains either the phrase "affirmative action" or "quotas."

And Ill laugh and ask how thats comperable to being denyed entry to establishments based on the color of my skin.


And watch him squirm.

Someone who wants to create government jobs and stimulate spending among consumers maybe?


By taking money away from them?

That's some strange logic you have there, boy.

And pretty much directly on the other side of the world.
Besides, no one would stand for it. Where would we get our Fosters? How could we disrespect the memory of Steve Irwin? and of Skippy?

Steve Irwin and Skippy, cool. Fosters = Australian for "piss."

Neither am I. And you seem to be one of millions who fails to understand that the majority of power is wielded by Congress, not the president. Still, I will reference the fact that the US should pull out of Chicago. In the last six months, 292 were killed (murdered) in Chicago; 221 were killed in Iraq. Senators Barack Obama & Dick Durbin, Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., Gov. Rod Blogojevich, House leader Mike Madigan, Atty. Gen. Lisa Madig - our leadership in Illinois - all Democrats.

EDIT: Actually, no, I am here to laugh. I find it so funny that this forum spouts the same "Bush sucks" drivel as the rest of the internet. Those of you who are American, you can thank the current capitalist economic system for having a computer to begin with.
Why? Socialists in France and the UK have computers, too.
Hell, Communists in China have them too! And there are computers and internet in the Middle East too!


Oh, wait, you actually believe that, right?

The amount of rage Im seeing from the far right is...well beyond my expectation. I really think a lot of them just didnt want a black man in charge.

I knew that my extreme partners on the right would make the rest of us sane conservatives look like morons.

My feelings about them are pretty much summed up by one of my favorite pictures:

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/peasly23/not_this_shit_again.jpg

By taking money away from them?

That's some strange logic you have there, boy.

Rich people don't actually spend that much money. They put it away to make more money that they don't actually spend. They already have everything they need.

When you give more money to middle and working class people, on the other hand, they actually spend it.

Ronald Reagan took more money (His top tax rate was 50% for the majority of his Presidency), and I've never heard him called a socialist....

Well...there was that one time when...oh, never mind, that was a black guy.

What about...wait, Native American.

How about...Hispanic.

Yeah, the only time in the US when white people have been discriminated against is when other white people discriminated against them.

And then mainly for being poor. Or gay.

I woke up this morning, and Everything feels different. Obama has alot on his plate, 2 wars, Recession, plus his Many policies, which frankly I think he is going to compromise. He is constantly redefining "The Rich", making the income level lower, because he realizes he can't have tax cuts to 95% of Americans, and institute his policies(which require money). Scary thing is, Democrats control the majority of Congress, and now the white house. 6 months from now, the situation will be clearer.

I knew that my extreme partners on the right would make the rest of us sane conservatives look like morons.

My feelings about them are pretty much summed up by one of my favorite pictures:

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/peasly23/not_this_shit_again.jpg

I like you. Why have I not seen you around?

I may be conservative, but that is a damn fine quote.
Thanks

It's a big difference between the attitude of many conservatives vs. many liberals. We've had a good 30+ years of conservative leadership. When this continued with Bush, they took it as a given that their power would continue, and thus, told everyone who disagreed to leave, and demonized the opposition.
Liberals remember this. We remember what it felt like to be told our opinions didn't matter (despite close elections in both '00 and '04), and we remember what we've been fighting for and against...we haven't so much been fighting against a political stance (though, that is part of it definatly). I think, more than anything else, many of us have been fighting the demonization of the opposition...this "Us vs. Them" mentality. I could never bring myself to tell someone to leave after the last 8 years.
The amount of rage Im seeing from the far right is...well beyond my expectation. I really think a lot of them just didnt want a black man in charge.

It's a natural product of "With us or against us". Suddenly, that which they have been told to hate is in power. Maybe it is time for them to learn that it just isn't that simple.

Ronald Reagan took more money (His top tax rate was 50% for the majority of his Presidency), and I've never heard him called a socialist....

What kind of socialist would topple the Soviet empire?

people tend to look more at that.

I am happy McCain lost. :)Maybe the world will not call my country rascist anymore. I did not like McMethane, the old fart. I believe in my country more than I ever did before. My love has been affirmed. History was made last night

I like you. Why have I not seen you around?

I'm in the IB (International Baccalaurete) program at my school.

It takes high school, and turns it into hell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Baccalaurete

I'm sorry. It's difficult having a genius IQ. My people skills evidently need some work.
A genius wouldn't beat everyone over the head with how smart his teachers say he is. Someone who's got a lot to compensate for might.

Rich people don't actually spend that much money. They put it away to make more money that they don't actually spend. They already have everything they need.

Wait you mean they invest the money? And those investments flow through the system creating jobs and contributing to the wealth of the economy placing more money into people's wallets and they spend the money thus stimulating growth.

Is that what you meant?

When you give more money to middle and working class people, on the other hand, they actually spend it.

Yes, they do. So how does raising taxes do this? Now I'm not talking about Obama specifically here I am just asking generally.

Fosters = Australian for "piss."

That's why we export the stuff to America and England. We don't drink it ourselves.

What kind of socialist would topple the Soviet empire?

people tend to look more at that.

True, though I'm of the opinion the corruption of the Brezhnev era did it in worse than Reagan did. But the point was it was hypocritical for the Right to argue that Obama's tax plan is socialism, when in fact Ronald Reagan's was more so.

A genius wouldn't beat everyone over the head with how smart his teachers say he is. Someone who's got a lot to compensate for might.

Confucius say, man who talks big on internet, is actually very small.

Wait you mean they invest the money? And those investments flow through the system creating jobs and contributing to the wealth of the economy placing more money into people's wallets and they spend the money thus stimulating growth.
No, trillions of it are parked in government paper. For holding that non-productive paper, they are given more money, which comes from tax receipts. This is a wealth transfer from the working classes to the parasitic classes.

Confucius say, man who talks big on internet, is actually very small.

In more ways than one....

Wait you mean they invest the money? And those investments flow through the system creating jobs and contributing to the wealth of the economy placing more money into people's wallets and they spend the money thus stimulating growth.

Is that what you meant?



Yes, they do. So how does raising taxes do this? Now I'm not talking about Obama specifically here I am just asking generally.

Could you explain why Bush's plan based off of trickle-down was a failure then, and why the economy was booming when Clinton was President, and had a system very similar to Obama's?

In more ways than one....

Its meant to include that.

No, trillions of it are parked in government paper. For holding that non-productive paper, they are given more money, which comes from tax receipts. This is a wealth transfer from the working classes to the parasitic classes.

Um yes, when you invest money into something it generates a return, hence the apparent non-productive paper. However the money they spent to buy those papers (though this isn't the only way they invest) is used to generate other returns and is further invested down the line. If it was just what you said then that would be the government just printing money and giving it to the holders of those bonds. So yes.

Its meant to include that.

I know.....but it's my thing to take anything that you or anyone else say and pervert it......shut up!

Could you explain why Bush's plan based off of trickle-down was a failure then, and why the economy was booming when Clinton was President, and had a system very similar to Obama's?

Was the US in a recession druing Clintons adminstration? Did Clinton raise or lower taxes? What part of the economy wasn't booming during the Bush years?

i like obama i voted for him im glad he won

Wait you mean they invest the money? And those investments flow through the system creating jobs and contributing to the wealth of the economy placing more money into people's wallets and they spend the money thus stimulating growth.

Is that what you meant?
Nope, because that's never how it works in this thing we call REALITY.

What kind of socialist would topple the Soviet empire?

people tend to look more at that.

He had little to do with it. Really, John Paul II had more to do with the fall of Communism than Reagan did. He just gets credit for it because he had recently been president.

Nope, because that's never how it works in this thing we call REALITY.

Ok so investment doesn't contribute to an increase in Aggregate Demand of an economy.

You had better ring up all the publishers and economists who have written all those books and articles and tell them how wrong they are.

Was the US in a recession druing Clintons adminstration? Did Clinton raise or lower taxes? What part of the economy wasn't booming during the Bush years?

Um.... have you been living under a rock the last 8 years? The economy has been good for the people at the top, but pretty fucking shitty for the rest of us.

Some other posters have addressed this. I don't need to.

Ok so investment doesn't contribute to an increase in Aggregate Demand of an economy.

You had better ring up all the publishers and economists who have written all those books and articles and tell them how wrong they are.

I don't need to. The economy speaks for itself. That's how it always works. The republicans fuck up the economy, and then the democrats win. Then they try to fix it and sometimes have success at doing so.

Um.... have you been living under a rock the last 8 years? The economy has been good for the people at the top, but pretty fucking shitty for the rest of us.

Hence why I am asking.

Um yes, when you invest money into something it generates a return, hence the apparent non-productive paper.
There are investments which generate a return because they are productive: the goods produced are sold, and this generates the return. Then there are investments in government bonds, which pay a return out of tax receipts.

However the money they spent to buy those papers (though this isn't the only way they invest) is used to generate other returns and is further invested down the line.
That's exactly what is not true.
If it was just what you said then that would be the government just printing money and giving it to the holders of those bonds. So yes.
No, it is not the government printing money. The government TAKES the money from us, and gives it to them.

Hence why I am asking.

I don't follow. Bush cut taxes for the wealthy, eliminated regulations. The economy is in the shitter now, though that's nothing new to most people in this country who have been familiar with, adjusted to inflation, declining wages in this country the last several years.

I don't see how it needs further explanation. Republican economic policy is a failure. Trickle down economics doesn't work in the real world.

I don't need to. The economy speaks for itself. That's how it always works. The republicans fuck up the economy, and then the democrats win. Then they try to fix it and sometimes have success at doing so.

Oh ok we must be done here, and to think I thought we were going to have a discussion on economic theory and how it works not some petty crap about the GOP vs Democrats. And if that is how it always works then all those economists must be wrong, you had better let them know.

I will tell you something though one of the reasons why the manufacturing sector in the US has been in a decline for awhile now was because Clinton signed a few free trade agreements with countries most noticeably China. Unlike what he claimed that it would be good for the US as the US would now have a whole new market to go to, it was China which had a whole new market to sell to and US companies where either able to shift their operations over there or they were forced to close down because they were no longer able to compete.

I agree. Electing this socialist, naive, corrupt, terrorist-befriending Chicago politician will be a disaster for this country.
Now really, how can you be naive AND corrupt at the same time?

I don't follow. Bush cut taxes for the wealthy, eliminated regulations. The economy is in the shitter now, though that's nothing new to most people in this country who have been familiar with, adjusted to inflation, declining wages in this country the last several years.

I don't see how it needs further explanation. Republican economic policy is a failure. Trickle down economics doesn't work in the real world.

Did you miss the part where I wanted to talk about it generally?

Yup, here goes the blame Clinton mentality. Can I ask why Bush didn't do anything to fix this supposed mess Clinton left?

Now really, how can you be naive AND corrupt at the same time?

Psh, dont question the trolls idiotic comments.

There are investments which generate a return because they are productive: the goods produced are sold, and this generates the return. Then there are investments in government bonds, which pay a return out of tax receipts.
And if things are shitty for the middle and lower classes, goods are not going to be sold, services are not going to be purchased. The country is built on these groups, not on the wealthy, primarily. Wealthy people pushing their vast amounts of money around doesn't put food on my table. Me having a job does. And to have a job, someone needs to have demand for my labor, which means that they need to be selling goods or services enough to justify needing more hands.



No, it is not the government printing money. The government TAKES the money from us, and gives it to them.

The last 8 years have been the worst sort of economics. Much like Reagan Hood, Bush has robbed from the poor to give to the rich.

BTW Blouman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Budget_Reconciliation_Act_of_1993

There are investments which generate a return because they are productive: the goods produced are sold, and this generates the return. Then there are investments in government bonds, which pay a return out of tax receipts.

Government bonds is a way of raising money for the government, to help fund their spending (rather than printing money). Now this government spending puts the money back into the economy as products and services are brought and sold, this money in the economy will then stimulate spending. The government has to pay back these loans with interest so yes they will give them some money back over the top of what they have borrowed. But as I say that is not the only way rich people invest their money.

That is exactly what is not true.

See above

No, it is not the government printing money. The government TAKES the money from us, and gives it to them.
That's what I said they won't printing money they are borrowing the money to help with their spending.

Because John McCain is a Senator and is required to at least go through the motions. I, on the other hand, have no such obligation to even pretend to respect Hussein.

I wish him nothing but ill and disgrace. I hope these next 4 years are a complete and utter disaster for him and that he is revealed as the corrupt, incompetent, America-hating, racist fraud that he is. And, I hope the American people, through the pain they are about to endure over the next 4 years, actually learn a lesson.
You're teaching us one now, but I doubt it's the one you intend.

Not America, just the idiot portion that voted for Hussein.
You mean, the majority? The mandate from God?

Did you miss the part where I wanted to talk about it generally?

What is there to talk about? The economy has been bad for most of Bush's two terms. Perhaps some initially was due to the deflation of the dot com bubble, but after 8 years, it really can't be blamed on that anymore. His economic policies, supported by the Republican party, have been abject failures. They have simply made the rich richer and poor poorer. To me, that is failure. They have not increased the quality of life for most Americans.

And that, to me, is the entire point of the economy. I do not see a strong economy as an end in itself. An economy that is strong but does not help most of the public is worthless. A strong economy, to me, is merely the means to an end. That end being: increase the quality of life for as much of the citizenry as possible.

Yup, here goes the blame Clinton mentality. Can I ask why Bush didn't do anything to fix this supposed mess Clinton left?

No here goes part of the blame to Clinton mentality, but hey it wasn't him that signed the free trade agreement with China now was it? Yes you can ask if you want to.

The amount of rage Im seeing from the far right is...well beyond my expectation. I really think a lot of them just didnt want a black man in charge.
Maybe they had started believing their own hype about how they are the "real America" and they represent what the country really thinks, and they are the majority being oppressed by leftist special interests.

Only none of that is true, and now that they can't pretend otherwise anymore, they have no response but to kick and yell.

Just a guess.

What is there to talk about? The economy has been bad for most of Bush's two terms. Perhaps some initially was due to the deflation of the dot com bubble, but after 8 years, it really can't be blamed on that anymore. His economic policies, supported by the Republican party, have been abject failures. They have simply made the rich richer and poor poorer. To me, that is failure. They have not increased the quality of life for most Americans.

This whole thing started because someone said raising taxes would stimulate growth. Well no it doesn't, raising taxes and taxing money away from people to spend does not stimulate growth as they can't spend the money that has now been taken away.

And that, to me, is the entire point of the economy. I do not see a strong economy as an end in itself. An economy that is strong but does not help most of the public is worthless. A strong economy, to me, is merely the means to an end. That end being: increase the quality of life for as much of the citizenry as possible.

And that exactly what a strong econmy should do it should bring about a better standard of living for its populance.

I call BS on taxes never being good, here's a example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Budget_Reconciliation_Act_of_1993

And you understand that essentially every President except Reagan's last two years and the Bushes have had higher tax rates than Obama?

This whole thing started because someone said raising taxes would stimulate growth. Well no it doesn't, raising taxes and taxing money away from people to spend does not stimulate growth as they can't spend the money that has now been taken away.


But often people don't spend the money. If the economy is in the tank, people are more likely to spend less.

The amount of rage Im seeing from the far right is...well beyond my expectation. I really think a lot of them just didnt want a black man in charge.
They didn't want anyone but a Republican in charge either.

Lots of responses, so I'll start at the extremes, I guess.

"Ten bucks says he's going to post something that contains either the phrase "affirmative action" or "quotas." "
The ACLU put this idea down a while ago, when they defended a couple of White students who were being discriminated against in this way. So no problem there. Sorry about the ten bucks.

"One black male becoming president does not mean that discrimination against blacks is gone. By any means."
Didn't say that. I said that "racism against Blacks is not a real power in this country anymore..." which I believe the election demonstrated. It does exist, it just doesn't matter any more than any other fringe idea, and it's been that way for more than just a few months.

"And Ill laugh and ask how thats comperable(sic) to being denyed(sic) entry to establishments based on the color of my skin.
And watch him squirm."
I never said that discrimination against Whites did any more than hurt their/our feelings. On some occassions it can, but no more than any other skin color I'd say. It's more that the anti-White-Male mentality is overblown and ridiculous.

"Yeah, the only time in the US when white people have been discriminated against is when other white people discriminated against them."
"Tell me, what discrimination have us poor oppressed white people experianced(sic)?"

- Every time a White person murders a Black person (especially if said White person is a cop), the incident is assumed until proven otherwise to be hate crime. Thankfully not legally so in the courtroom, but it's still mentioned as such. The reverse is not true.
- Certain words are off-limits to people who have white skin.
- "Pride groups" based on skin color are not uncommon...that is, as long as the skin color isn't white. I'd like to see someone get away with even a "European pride group". While not illegal (again), it is severely frowned upon.
...Double standards are fun!

So anyway, now that we will have a Black president, that's one less thing used as "evidence" when I'm being told how evil I am for being born a White Male, or how I need to compensate others for certain regrettable historical events that neither me nor any of my ancestors could possibly be responsible for.

Steve Irwin and Skippy, cool. Fosters = Australian for "piss."
I had an Aussie colleague, who told me that Fosters=piss at home, and the only reason to buy it was because you got that big oilcan..... but she said that the Fosters they sent here wasn't bad.

In any event, he's not my President.

You're rejecting your citizenship? I guess we can call you a stateless person now.

Wait a minute. Weren't you one of those who were always whining about illegals and how non-Americans didn't have rights?

Guess we can toss you in prison and throw away the key now.

The amount of rage Im seeing from the far right is...well beyond my expectation. I really think a lot of them just didnt want a black man in charge.

To play devil's advocate, one could say that a lot of the 'left' just wanted to see a black man in charge. See what I did there? :p

Anyways, I voted for McCain. I'm not upset that Obama won. I just hope that he goes through with a lot of the changes he plans. As many others have said, I have a lot of hope for this country and what goals have been stated in the many articles Ive read, to get accomplished. I don't get upset over my chosen candidate not winning, because Obama is what the majority wanted. How can I be upset with that? Everybody (that voted) used their democratic right to choose him. I'm proud of everyone who voted for either candidate.

I normally do lean towards Democrats, but I voted for a surprising amount of Republicans (50/50 on the total amount of elections in Michigan and in my local area) this year.

In short, I'm going to my part in helping our country get back on it's feet. It may not be much, but change is certainly coming.

I call BS on taxes never being good, here's a example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Budget_Reconciliation_Act_of_1993

I agree with you, I never said that they were never good.

And you understand that essentially every President except Reagan's last two years and the Bushes have had higher tax rates than Obama?

And? Someone said that they should raise taxes in order to stimulate spending and growth during a recession, that is BS.

But often people don't spend the money. If the economy is in the tank, people are more likely to spend less.

So why take more away from them by raising taxes? You should be lowering taxes so they have a higher disposable income and more likely to spend this extra money. The government should also increase spending during these times as well.

Didn't say that. I said that "racism against Blacks is not a real power in this country anymore..." which I believe the election demonstrated. It does exist, it just doesn't matter any more than any other fringe idea, and it's been that way for more than just a few months.\

Wrong. One black man making it does not mean that the vast majority of black citizens are not held back by racism.

My apologies for the generalization, but you are arguing taxing the rich higher is bad, and we should keep cutting their taxes are you not? In which case the other Presidents are relevant, because except for those three examples (And the early Presidents of course), Obama's taxes are lower than they were under other Presidents. That system has been a failure thus far, are we going to keep trying until the system is regressive?

[QUOTE=-Lorraine-;14174528]I am sad that Obama has been elected.
1. We are going to leave Iraq in an unresponsible way, the same way that caused half the totla casualties of the Vietnam war.

The word is irresponsible? It also describes how we got into the war.

2. Who raises taxes in an economic depression?

Who is in a depression? I think work programs did well after the last depression don't you?


3. The dow plunged 500 today after Obama was declared the winner, not a good sign.

The stock market fell 900 or so points the other day. Obama had nothing to do with that did he?


4. McCain might be around for the next election to make up for Obama's mistakes.
McCain should have been president in 2000 and will never have the chance now.

I am personally quite concerned that Obama won, but no doubt, it's still a milestone in out history. Personally, I don't agree with most of his policies, such as welfare and abortion, but if it gets REALLY bad, then we can just vote a Republican congress in two years. By then I'll be voting, so I'll finally have a voice! Ignore the fact that my nation is liberal; I am conservative (how did I swing that? :confused:).

America's been a pretty conservative nation ever since we elected Reagan actually.

Isn't it amazing the level of anger the Republicans feel in 2008 when they told Democrats to 'get over it' in controversial elections in 2000 and 2004?

Get over it. McCain lost. Barack Obama will be President of the United States. He's a very intelligent and learned man that surrounds himself with other very learned men. I think he's a very skilled politician and everything that implies, but I like the man's taste in advisors. It gives me a bit of hope that he may lead as well as he campaigns.

My apologies for the generalization, but you are arguing taxing the rich higher is bad, and we should keep cutting their taxes are you not? In which case the other Presidents are relevant, because except for those three examples (And the early Presidents of course), Obama's taxes are lower than they were under other Presidents. That system has been a failure thus far, are we going to keep trying until the system is regressive?

No I am arguing that rasing taxes during a recession is bad and the opposite should be done, generally I mentioned in an earlier post not to dwell on the individual tax packages but generally speaking.

Who is in a depression? I think work programs did well after the last depression don't you?

I think he meant to say recession.

Ok, I get that point of view, though I would argue that's not necessarily true. Didn't FDR raise taxes during the Great Depression after all? (To be more exact, he created new ones, he didn't mess with the existing ones much I think, not until WWII anyway)

The word is irresponsible? It also describes how we got into the war.

If you ask a solider who has been in Iraq, he'll probably say that s/he wants to see the job done. The soldiers are happy to see the improvements in Iraq and they feel a sense of accomplishment. The US is the temporary mold that holds Iraq together: If you pull it away too soon, then it will fall apart.


Who is in a depression? I think work programs did well after the last depression don't you?


You're right. Technically, it's a recession, but raising taxes isn't going to help the economy. If you raise taxes during a recession, then people aren't going to be able to pay other things off, such as mortgages, which is what got us here in the first place. Reagan had the best economic policies, as seen from the 80's, but 9-11 killed it.


The stock market fell 900 or so points the other day. Obama had nothing to do with that did he?


Believe it or not, the markets would've gone down no matter who was elected. The market was preparing for an Obama win. If McCain won, the market would've slipped a little bit. The slip was probably caused by everyone getting rid of their defense company stocks...or it could've happened no matter if there was an election or not.


McCain should have been president in 2000 and will never have the chance now.


This was probably McCain's last chance. He'll be 75 or 76 come next election, which is probably too old. Then again, age didn't stop Kennedy from running.

Ok, I get that point of view, though I would argue that's not necessarily true. Didn't FDR raise taxes during the Great Depression after all? (To be more exact, he created new ones, he didn't mess with the existing ones much I think, not until WWII anyway)

I would have to go over it but I understand that didn't work anyway, or did he spend more money than he was taxing?

Modern economic theory states that if during a bad time of negative growth and to pick up growth and stimulate the economy the government should do at least one of two things. Lower taxes and/or increase government spending, this places more mony into the economy and stimulates growth; in short the government should be running a deficit. During times of an economic boom the governments should do the opposite to the above.

:D
Yeah, well, it really really hit me.

I'm ready to stand behind my new President and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Let's see what America can do.

"Reagan had the best economic policies"

Sorry, but I vehemently disagree. His trickle down economics have been spectacular at one thing, massive debt, and massive deficits. (They kind of go hand in hand, but still) His economic policy combined with his massive increase in defense spending contributed significantly to the Saving and Loans crisis, and the stock market crash in 1987, and the failed economic policies of the Bush Administration, so I have to disagree.

Isn't it amazing the level of anger the Republicans feel in 2008 when they told Democrats to 'get over it' in controversial elections in 2000 and 2004?

Get over it. McCain lost. Barack Obama will be President of the United States. He's a very intelligent and learned man that surrounds himself with other very learned men. I think he's a very skilled politician and everything that implies, but I like the man's taste in advisors. It gives me a bit of hope that he may lead as well as he campaigns.
well said

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Presidents

I'm going to guess from the lock on this article that there are a lot of people upset with the result of this election.

I point them to this thread:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=571514

By taking money away from them?

That's some strange logic you have there, boy.

I don't see it that way. Giving the majority of Americans a tax break you give them the ability to spend money on items they need. Making someone who has an income of 3 million pay an extra 19,000 will not stop them from buying the things they need. A large majority of the money would probably have been put into stocks or some other financial vehicle. While this has a negligable impact on the economy, it doesn't have the effect that money in the middle class consumer's hand does. We have a consumerist economy which requires purchasing. If people don't have money to spend then our businesses will not succeed.

You're right. Technically, it's a recession, but raising taxes isn't going to help the economy. If you raise taxes during a recession, then people aren't going to be able to pay other things off, such as mortgages, which is what got us here in the first place. Reagan had the best economic policies, as seen from the 80's, but 9-11 killed it.


Read up on the great depression. America saved itself from that by INCREASING GOVERNMENT SPENDING. Messing with taxes (cutting them or raising them) alone is like rearranging chairs on the titanic but if you raise taxes then create jobs using those taxes the economy wil rebound. (extremely simplistic I know) Also reganomics? epic failure of massive proportions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Presidents

I'm going to guess from the lock on this article that there are a lot of people upset with the result of this election.

Considering it is wrong, Obama shouldn't be on that list yet.

I'm not all that angry. Just disgusting.

Fixed for accuracy. :p

Read up on the great depression. America saved itself from that by INCREASING GOVERNMENT SPENDING. Messing with taxes (cutting them or raising them) alone is like rearranging chairs on the titanic but if you raise taxes then create jobs using those taxes the economy wil rebound. (extremely simplistic I know) Also reganomics? epic failure of massive proportions.

Or you could do both decrease taxes and increase government spending.

Or you could do both decrease taxes and increase government spending.

It's been tried. :p

I don't see it that way. Giving the majority of Americans a tax break you give them the ability to spend money on items they need. Making someone who has an income of 3 million pay an extra 19,000 will not stop them from buying the things they need. A large majority of the money would probably have been put into stocks or some other financial vehicle. While this has a negligable impact on the economy, it doesn't have the effect that money in the middle class consumer's hand does. We have a consumerist economy which requires purchasing. If people don't have money to spend then our businesses will not succeed.

Well I was talking generally as the person I replied to was.

The part I bolded does actually have an effect it is an investment into the economy the money goes into companies or other ventures which creates jobs and increasing the output of a nation thus leading to a better economy. Your last part is exactly right which is why I asked how would taking money away from people stimulate the economy.

Because John McCain is a Senator and is required to at least go through the motions. I, on the other hand, have no such obligation to even pretend to respect Hussein.

I wish him nothing but ill and disgrace. I hope these next 4 years are a complete and utter disaster for him and that he is revealed as the corrupt, incompetent, America-hating, racist fraud that he is. And, I hope the American people, through the pain they are about to endure over the next 4 years, actually learn a lesson.

What the fuck man. I hated the leftists that wished the U.S. ill, harm and misfortune during the Bush years. That said "he's your President, not mine" and that said "I don't feel ashamed to be an American anymore" when Obama won.

That caused us nothing but disunity and projected nothing but the image of a fractured nation to the world. What fucking good did that bring? An election has happend and the Commander in Chief will be so until the next one comes along.

It's time to start a new. Obama has done nothing yet in his job as President that should make us doubt him. Instead, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. He's actually already restored global pride in America and has lifted the spirits of literally more than half our nation, while not really hurting THAT many McCain voters. I mean, let's face it. McCain was not a strong candidate. I voted for him only for some political moderation between Dems and Repubs in Washington.

Watching this, Obama's victory play out, watching the reaction of our nation, I realize that it shouldn't have happend any othe way. So what if McCain would have won? Then the Republicans would have wasted their victory on a weak candidate. Now the Republicans can re-build their party while Obama has a chance. And you know what? If McCain would have won, this country would have become so divided, perhaps even to the point of no recovery.

So let's just relax, and look at the good in this. We stand, once again, united. Not just internally where Obama most certainly has the potential to bring our nation together and heal our divisive wounds from the last 8 years, but to the world and that's even more important. A united America is a strong America. A strong America is a stronger force for good in this world.

So you're right, we can't force you to respect President Obama. But we can tell you this. If you hold yourself to be a proud American, who in his heart knows that unity, strength and national pride are much more important than holding a grudge that will bring you literally nothing, then you will know in your heart and in your mind that it would be honorable for you, as a citizen who can see beyond petty politics but rather into the success or failure of our people and nation, to stand by our new President and give him the respect he deserves.

Wishing ill, harm and failure on your fellow countrymen and country, simply because your representative didn't get elected, compares to treachery in my book. He is your President. He is my President. He is now our President. Let's try him out. We have literally nothing to lose.

Hail to the Chief.
Stand by President Obama.
God Bless the USA.

If you ask a solider who has been in Iraq, he'll probably say that s/he wants to see the job done. The soldiers are happy to see the improvements in Iraq and they feel a sense of accomplishment. The US is the temporary mold that holds Iraq together: If you pull it away too soon, then it will fall apart.



You're right. Technically, it's a recession, but raising taxes isn't going to help the economy. If you raise taxes during a recession, then people aren't going to be able to pay other things off, such as mortgages, which is what got us here in the first place. Reagan had the best economic policies, as seen from the 80's, but 9-11 killed it.



Believe it or not, the markets would've gone down no matter who was elected. The market was preparing for an Obama win. If McCain won, the market would've slipped a little bit. The slip was probably caused by everyone getting rid of their defense company stocks...or it could've happened no matter if there was an election or not.



This was probably McCain's last chance. He'll be 75 or 76 come next election, which is probably too old. Then again, age didn't stop Kennedy from running.

Bolded above: I'm going to go look in the mirror and see how I feel about it. Well, I just got back and I look tired. I want to see my fellow Marines come home as quickly as possible. I want them to allow the Iraqis to step up and keep THEIR country safe. I don't want them pulled out tomorrow, but I do want them pulled out soon.

What the fuck man. I hated the leftists that wished the U.S. ill, harm and misfortune during the Bush, that said "he's your President, not mine" and that said "I don't feel ashamed to be an American anymore" when Obama won.

That caused us nothing but disunity and projected nothing but the image of a fractured nation to the world. What fucking good did that bring? An election has happend and the Commander in Chief will be so until the next one comes along.

It's time to start a new. Obama has done nothing yet in his job as President that should make us doubt him. Instead, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. He's actually already restored global pride in America and has lifted the spirits of literally more than half our nation, while not really hurting THAT many McCain voters. I mean, let's face it. McCain was not a strong candidate. I voted for him only for some political moderate between Dems and Repubs in Washington.

Watching this Obama's victory play out, watching the reaction of our nation, I realize that it shouldn't have happend any othe way. So what if McCain would have one? Then the Republicans would have wasted their victory on a weak candidate. Now the Republicans can re-build their party while Obama has a chance. And you know what? If McCain would have won, this country would have become so divided, perhaps even to the point of no recovery.

So let's just relax, and look at the good in this. We stand, once again, united. Not just internally where Obama most certainly has the potential to bring our nation together and heal our divisive wounds from the last 8 years, but to the world and that's even more important. A united America is a strong America. A strong America is a stronger force for good in this world.

So you're right, we can't force you to respect President Obama. But we can tell you this. If you hold yourself to be a proud American, who in his heart knows that unity, strength and national pride are much more important than holding a grudge that will bring you literally nothing, then you will know in your heart and in your mind that it would be honorable for you, as a citizen who can see beyond petty politics but rather into the success or failure of our people and nation, to stand by our new President and give him the respect he deserves.

Wishing ill, harm and failure on your fellow countrymen and country, simply because your representative didn't get elected, compares to treachery in my book. He is your President. He is my President. He is now our President. Let's try him out. We have literally nothing to lose.

Hail to the Chief.
Stand by President Obama.
God Bless the USA.

This. Oh sweet God all mighty and his son Jesus tap dancing Christ on a stick this.

What the fuck man. I hated the leftists that wished the U.S. ill, harm and misfortune during the Bush, that said "he's your President, not mine" and that said "I don't feel ashamed to be an American anymore" when Obama won.

That caused us nothing but disunity and projected nothing but the image of a fractured nation to the world. What fucking good did that bring? An election has happend and the Commander in Chief will be so until the next one comes along.

It's time to start a new. Obama has done nothing yet in his job as President that should make us doubt him. Instead, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. He's actually already restored global pride in America and has lifted the spirits of literally more than half our nation, while not really hurting THAT many McCain voters. I mean, let's face it. McCain was not a strong candidate. I voted for him only for some political moderation between Dems and Repubs in Washington.

Watching this Obama's victory play out, watching the reaction of our nation, I realize that it shouldn't have happend any othe way. So what if McCain would have one? Then the Republicans would have wasted their victory on a weak candidate. Now the Republicans can re-build their party while Obama has a chance. And you know what? If McCain would have won, this country would have become so divided, perhaps even to the point of no recovery.

So let's just relax, and look at the good in this. We stand, once again, united. Not just internally where Obama most certainly has the potential to bring our nation together and heal our divisive wounds from the last 8 years, but to the world and that's even more important. A united America is a strong America. A strong America is a stronger force for good in this world.

So you're right, we can't force you to respect President Obama. But we can tell you this. If you hold yourself to be a proud American, who in his heart knows that unity, strength and national pride are much more important than holding a grudge that will bring you literally nothing, then you will know in your heart and in your mind that it would be honorable for you, as a citizen who can see beyond petty politics but rather into the success or failure of our people and nation, to stand by our new President and give him the respect he deserves.

Wishing ill, harm and failure on your fellow countrymen and country, simply because your representative didn't get elected, compares to treachery in my book. He is your President. He is my President. He is now our President. Let's try him out. We have literally nothing to lose.

Hail to the Chief.
Stand by President Obama.
God Bless the USA.I am Gauntleted Fist, and I endorse this message.
Seriously. TAI, dude, you make me proud to know you.

What the fuck man. I hated the leftists that wished the U.S. ill, harm and misfortune during the Bush, that said "he's your President, not mine" and that said "I don't feel ashamed to be an American anymore" when Obama won.

That caused us nothing but disunity and projected nothing but the image of a fractured nation to the world. What fucking good did that bring? An election has happend and the Commander in Chief will be so until the next one comes along.

It's time to start a new. Obama has done nothing yet in his job as President that should make us doubt him. Instead, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. He's actually already restored global pride in America and has lifted the spirits of literally more than half our nation, while not really hurting THAT many McCain voters. I mean, let's face it. McCain was not a strong candidate. I voted for him only for some political moderation between Dems and Repubs in Washington.

Watching this Obama's victory play out, watching the reaction of our nation, I realize that it shouldn't have happend any othe way. So what if McCain would have one? Then the Republicans would have wasted their victory on a weak candidate. Now the Republicans can re-build their party while Obama has a chance. And you know what? If McCain would have won, this country would have become so divided, perhaps even to the point of no recovery.

So let's just relax, and look at the good in this. We stand, once again, united. Not just internally where Obama most certainly has the potential to bring our nation together and heal our divisive wounds from the last 8 years, but to the world and that's even more important. A united America is a strong America. A strong America is a stronger force for good in this world.

So you're right, we can't force you to respect President Obama. But we can tell you this. If you hold yourself to be a proud American, who in his heart knows that unity, strength and national pride are much more important than holding a grudge that will bring you literally nothing, then you will know in your heart and in your mind that it would be honorable for you, as a citizen who can see beyond petty politics but rather into the success or failure of our people and nation, to stand by our new President and give him the respect he deserves.

Wishing ill, harm and failure on your fellow countrymen and country, simply because your representative didn't get elected, compares to treachery in my book. He is your President. He is my President. He is now our President. Let's try him out. We have literally nothing to lose.

Hail to the Chief.
Stand by President Obama.
God Bless the USA.
Who the fuck are you and what have you done with The Atlantean Islands?!

LG, stop being sensible. You scare and confuse me when you do that!

Who the fuck are you and what have you done with The Atlantean Islands?!

This is the TAI I've had conversations with.


This is why whenever people threadjack him about how he hates teh darkies Im almost like ":rolleyes: wtf?"

Speaking of, anybody get the feeling a certain Sen. McCain will become "The Honorable" sometime around Jan. 20th? :p
It would do wonders for Obama's "reaching across the aisle" effort.

If McCain's behavior towards Obama was any indicator of his real feelings, isn't that unlikely? I got the impression that McCain disliked him at a personal level.

but if you raise taxes then create jobs using those taxes the economy wil rebound. (extremely simplistic I know) Also reganomics? epic failure of massive proportions.

And rasing taxes on companies that make the jobs will help how?

LG, stop being sensible. You scare and confuse me when you do that!

Well, we wouldn't want that, would we? Would we? ;)

What the fuck man. I hated the leftists that wished the U.S. ill, harm and misfortune during the Bush years. That said "he's your President, not mine" and that said "I don't feel ashamed to be an American anymore" when Obama won.

That caused us nothing but disunity and projected nothing but the image of a fractured nation to the world. What fucking good did that bring? An election has happend and the Commander in Chief will be so until the next one comes along.

It's time to start a new. Obama has done nothing yet in his job as President that should make us doubt him. Instead, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. He's actually already restored global pride in America and has lifted the spirits of literally more than half our nation, while not really hurting THAT many McCain voters. I mean, let's face it. McCain was not a strong candidate. I voted for him only for some political moderation between Dems and Repubs in Washington.

Watching this, Obama's victory play out, watching the reaction of our nation, I realize that it shouldn't have happend any othe way. So what if McCain would have one? Then the Republicans would have wasted their victory on a weak candidate. Now the Republicans can re-build their party while Obama has a chance. And you know what? If McCain would have won, this country would have become so divided, perhaps even to the point of no recovery.

So let's just relax, and look at the good in this. We stand, once again, united. Not just internally where Obama most certainly has the potential to bring our nation together and heal our divisive wounds from the last 8 years, but to the world and that's even more important. A united America is a strong America. A strong America is a stronger force for good in this world.

So you're right, we can't force you to respect President Obama. But we can tell you this. If you hold yourself to be a proud American, who in his heart knows that unity, strength and national pride are much more important than holding a grudge that will bring you literally nothing, then you will know in your heart and in your mind that it would be honorable for you, as a citizen who can see beyond petty politics but rather into the success or failure of our people and nation, to stand by our new President and give him the respect he deserves.

Wishing ill, harm and failure on your fellow countrymen and country, simply because your representative didn't get elected, compares to treachery in my book. He is your President. He is my President. He is now our President. Let's try him out. We have literally nothing to lose.

Hail to the Chief.
Stand by President Obama.
God Bless the USA.

Sir, do you write speeches for the president elect? Because that was beautiful. *Tries not to tear up*

Who the fuck are you and what have you done with The Atlantean Islands?!LG, stop being sensible. You scare and confuse me when you do that!Obama wins, and LG starts making sense.
And then TAI suddenly comes out with that epic post.
DUDE.
More Obama!


(Yeah, I know. Fission mailed. :tongue:)

Well I was talking generally as the person I replied to was.

The part I bolded does actually have an effect it is an investment into the economy the money goes into companies or other ventures which creates jobs and increasing the output of a nation thus leading to a better economy. Your last part is exactly right which is why I asked how would taking money away from people stimulate the economy.

It's not always taking money away. Creating a situation where more people have $ to spend is a good thing. Time for bed.

It's not always taking money away. Creating a situation where more people have $ to spend is a good thing. Time for bed.

What is not always taking money away?
And yes generally it is a good thing.

Obama wins, and LG starts making sense.
And then TAI suddenly comes out with that epic post.
DUDE.
More Obama!

You missed the part where KoL said nice things about McCain. What the hell is going on.

What the fuck man. I hated the leftists that wished the U.S. ill, harm and misfortune during the Bush years. That said "he's your President, not mine" and that said "I don't feel ashamed to be an American anymore" when Obama won.

That caused us nothing but disunity and projected nothing but the image of a fractured nation to the world. What fucking good did that bring? An election has happend and the Commander in Chief will be so until the next one comes along.

It's time to start a new. Obama has done nothing yet in his job as President that should make us doubt him. Instead, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. He's actually already restored global pride in America and has lifted the spirits of literally more than half our nation, while not really hurting THAT many McCain voters. I mean, let's face it. McCain was not a strong candidate. I voted for him only for some political moderation between Dems and Repubs in Washington.

Watching this, Obama's victory play out, watching the reaction of our nation, I realize that it shouldn't have happend any othe way. So what if McCain would have one? Then the Republicans would have wasted their victory on a weak candidate. Now the Republicans can re-build their party while Obama has a chance. And you know what? If McCain would have won, this country would have become so divided, perhaps even to the point of no recovery.

So let's just relax, and look at the good in this. We stand, once again, united. Not just internally where Obama most certainly has the potential to bring our nation together and heal our divisive wounds from the last 8 years, but to the world and that's even more important. A united America is a strong America. A strong America is a stronger force for good in this world.

So you're right, we can't force you to respect President Obama. But we can tell you this. If you hold yourself to be a proud American, who in his heart knows that unity, strength and national pride are much more important than holding a grudge that will bring you literally nothing, then you will know in your heart and in your mind that it would be honorable for you, as a citizen who can see beyond petty politics but rather into the success or failure of our people and nation, to stand by our new President and give him the respect he deserves.

Wishing ill, harm and failure on your fellow countrymen and country, simply because your representative didn't get elected, compares to treachery in my book. He is your President. He is my President. He is now our President. Let's try him out. We have literally nothing to lose.

Hail to the Chief.
Stand by President Obama.
God Bless the USA.
http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/6/60/MrT-stained-glass.jpg/300px-MrT-stained-glass.jpg
My first reply just simply did not do that post justice. :)

You missed the part where KoL said nice things about McCain. What the hell is going on.I don't know! Whatever it is, it needs to infect everybody! :p

snip

Nice...

You missed the part where KoL said nice things about McCain. What the hell is going on.

Before the general election, and McCain subsiquent faustian bargin, I had many a nice thing to say about McCain;)

You missed the part where KoL said nice things about McCain. What the hell is going on.

Even Im confused....

Nice...Why thank you. :D

Before the general election, and McCain subsiquent faustian bargin, I had many a nice thing to say about McCain;)

haha, I'm just saying when I read that post I had to double check to see if someone hadn't stolen your avatar, lol.

What is not always taking money away?
And yes generally it is a good thing.

Allowing people to have more money to invest stimulates growth...so yeah it is a good thing. Actually it is a great thing....

However, taking peoples' money and giving it to worse off citizens is a big WTF to those that are making the money. Encouraging them to not work as hard, or stop investing and start saving, causing a domino effect.

This. Oh sweet God all mighty and his son Jesus tap dancing Christ on a stick this.
Yes, that was quite good, wasn't it. :p

I am Gauntleted Fist, and I endorse this message.
Seriously. TAI, dude, you make me proud to know you.
Thanks. I quite like knowing myself, too.

But seriously, this election, and more importantly, the cheering of America that gripped our nation, that literally rocked the world last night, made me tear up. I was before, I am right now, and I always will be proud of our nation. Proud to be an American.
This is the TAI I've had conversations with.


This is why whenever people threadjack him about how he hates teh darkies Im almost like ":rolleyes: wtf?"
Meh. People can think what they want, but I know myself and I am quite comfterable and happy with who I am. I certainly don't hate "the darkies", though I'm sure that people who claim I do will still continue to do so. And I am ok with that.
Sir, do you write speeches for the president elect? Because that was beautiful. *Tries not to tear up*
Thank you. That actually means alot to me. I really pride myself on speech writing and writing in general. (That did have a few spelling mistakes because I wrote it quite fast)....So that really makes me proud to hear.

And besides, I have to practice for my Presidential acceptance speech that I, very seriously, intend to one day give. ;)
http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/6/60/MrT-stained-glass.jpg/300px-MrT-stained-glass.jpg
My first reply just simply did not do that post justice. :)
:tongue:
Obama wins, and LG starts making sense.
And then TAI suddenly comes out with that epic post.
DUDE.
More Obama!


(Yeah, I know. Fission mailed. :tongue:)

How can we have more Obama? He's already secured the highest office in the world. :p

Allowing people to have more money to invest stimulates growth...so yeah it is a good thing. Actually it is a great thing....

However, taking peoples' money and giving it to worse off citizens is a big WTF to those that are making the money. Encouraging them to not work as hard, or stop investing and start saving, causing a domino effect.

Not all people have worked hard for their money.

Inheritance is a good example.

Who the fuck are you and what have you done with The Atlantean Islands?!
I know, right? It's kind of great. :D I'm glad to meet this person. I look forward to sparring with him now.

Once upon a time, good old T. Jefferson made some wisecrack about these being "the times that try men's souls." (edit: or if it wasn't Jefferson, then whoever did say it.)

I don't think of that as being horrible depressing times that grind us down or force us into desperation. Instead, I think it's about those times when we really just have to stop wanking around with our favorite bullshit and say what we REALLY THINK -- not what we like to think, nor what is comfortable or somehow profitable for us to think, but what we REALLY THINK about what's right and what's wrong and what's important. Times when we just have to stop posturing and pick where we're going to draw our line.

And when we come to such times, that's when our real characters show through. We show our true colors, as it were. That's when people see the real us and can know where they stand with us and what they can expect from us. That's the no-bullshit hour.

And I think we've been in such times ever since 9/11. Over and over, I've seen people, in both private and public life, step up and declare themselves -- in response to 9/11, to the wars, to the Patriot Act, to a hundred different things. And now to this election.

I've been horribly disappointed by some people I had previously respected, admired and trusted. And I've been amazingly positively surprised by some people who I had thought of as diametrically opposed to everything I believed in. I've had to adjust my thinking over and over again.

And now I get to adjust my thinking about TAI, and I am happy to do it.

I'm sure we'll be back at it, tooth and nail, soon enough, but this time, I hope it will be fun.

Yes, that was quite good, wasn't it. :p


Thanks. I quite like knowing myself, too.

But seriously, this election, and more importantly, the cheering of America that gripped our nation, that literally rocked the world last night, made me tear up. I was before, I am right now and I always will be proud of our nation. Proud to be an American.

Meh. People can think what they want, but I know myself and I am quite comfterable and happy with who I am. I certainly don't hate "the darkies", though I'm sure that people who claim I do will still continue to do so. And I am ok with that.

Thank you. That actually means alot to me. I really pride myself on speech writing and writing in general. (That did have a few spelling mistakes because I wrote it quite fast)....So that really makes me proud to hear.

And besides, I have to practice for my Presidential acceptance speech that I, very seriously, intend to one day give.

:tongue:

How can we have more Obama? He's already secured the highest office in the world. :p

Create a higher office just for him?

President of the World, maybe?

Allowing people to have more money to invest stimulates growth...so yeah it is a good thing. Actually it is a great thing....

Uhh yeah, but allwoing people to have more money to spend is not always a good thing, as during a boom more money in the economy means greater inflation so during these times the government does need to limit spending and take money out of the economy.

However, taking peoples' money and giving it to worse off citizens is a big WTF to those that are making the money. Encouraging them to not work as hard, or stop investing and start saving, causing a domino effect.

Not exactly true transfer payments to the poorer people can help stimulate the economy as well if they have some more income than they are able to increase their consumption also helping the economy.

Not all people have worked hard for their money.

Inheritance is a good example.

Which accounts for less than 2% of people making over $250,000. The other 98% percent have generated their wealth in their lifetime.

Not exactly true transfer payments to the poorer people can help stimulate the economy as well if they have some more income than they are able to increase their consumption also helping the economy.

That reminds me of microfinancing. Such a sweet idea.

Which accounts for less than 2% of people making over $250,000. The other 98% percent have generated their wealth in their lifetime.

Can you prove they truly worked for it? I'm a conservative and I agree that taxing the wealthy isn't the best idea, but these are times where the unwanted is sometimes necessary.

That reminds me of microfinancing. Such a sweet idea.

Umm actually yes IIRC welfare payments is apart of microeconomics

How can we have more Obama? He's already secured the highest office in the world. :p

There are plenty of other offices, aren't there? He could become Barack Obama, president/prime minister/pope of the United States of America-Kingdom-Canada-Mexico-Holy See.

Thanks. I quite like knowing myself, too.

But seriously, this election, and more importantly, the cheering of America that gripped our nation, that literally rocked the world last night, made me tear up. I was before, I am right now, and I always will be proud of our nation. Proud to be an American.

Meh. People can think what they want, but I know myself and I am quite comfterable and happy with who I am. I certainly don't hate "the darkies", though I'm sure that people who claim I do will still continue to do so. And I am ok with that.

Thank you. That actually means alot to me. I really pride myself on speech writing and writing in general. (That did have a few spelling mistakes because I wrote it quite fast)....So that really makes me proud to hear.

And besides, I have to practice for my Presidential acceptance speech that I, very seriously, intend to one day give. ;)

:tongue:

How can we have more Obama? He's already secured the highest office in the world. :pMore power to you, TAI.
And we can always have more Obama. Give me a few hours, and let me make creativity work. :tongue:
And that's right. Mr. T in a mural, giving you the official "OK" sign. :p

This is the TAI I've had conversations with.


This is why whenever people threadjack him about how he hates teh darkies Im almost like ":rolleyes: wtf?"

ditto that. Ruins alot of perfectly good and interesting debates.

There are plenty of other offices, aren't there? He could become Barack Obama, president/prime minister/pope of the United States of America-Kingdom-Canada-Mexico-Holy See.
How about just King of Cool?

Uhh yeah, but allwoing people to have more money to spend is not always a good thing, as during a boom more money in the economy means greater inflation so during these times the government does need to limit spending and take money out of the economy.
True, but is much better than having people with no money, thus, no spending in the economy. As for the government limiting spending, that is absoutlely right, if it does not limit spending, then it could severly hurt when the market bounces back down....An example is now...


Not exactly true, transfer payments to the poorer people can help stimulate the economy as well if they have some more income than they are able to increase their consumption also helping the economy.

That may work in some cases, but taking a rich persons money and giving it to the poor doesn't exactly spell "immediate help" in the economy. Besides, the rich in america invest and consume far more in the economy than lower income persons (hence their enormous wealth), and such trickle down effect could take a long time to implement.

Create a higher office just for him?

President of the World, maybe?

President of the United States of Ameriwank! :D (http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=92281&highlight=Ameriwank)

There are plenty of other offices, aren't there? He could become Barack Obama, president/prime minister/pope of the United States of America-Kingdom-Canada-Mexico-Holy See.

My question is, how would you address him if achieved that post?

(Obama walks into a meeting with some officials)

Obama: Hello, ladies and gentlemen.

Official: Hello, Mr. Pres...I mean...Prime...I mean, your Holy...AHHH!!!

(Head explodes)

Not all people have worked hard for their money.

Inheritance is a good example.
Inheritance is great, we'd hardly have classes without it.

Create a higher office just for him?

President of the World, maybe?
Hey, now.....relax while you're ahead. :p
I know, right? It's kind of great. :D I'm glad to meet this person. I look forward to sparring with him now.

*Snip*
Indeed. Difficult, revolutionary and all around historically monumental occasions bring out the deepest parts of our souls.
And now I get to adjust my thinking about TAI, and I am happy to do it.

I'm sure we'll be back at it, tooth and nail, soon enough, but this time, I hope it will be fun.
Indeed we will. Just wait for me to read over the next edition of The Economist. :wink:

But what I really hope, is that guy I wrote that to....that he gets to see it and actually takes the time to think about it. I'd really like to change his opinion on that.

I know, right? It's kind of great. :D I'm glad to meet this person. I look forward to sparring with him now.

Once upon a time, good old T. Jefferson made some wisecrack about these being "the times that try men's souls." (edit: or if it wasn't Jefferson, then whoever did say it.)

I don't think of that as being horrible depressing times that grind us down or force us into desperation. Instead, I think it's about those times when we really just have to stop wanking around with our favorite bullshit and say what we REALLY THINK -- not what we like to think, nor what is comfortable or somehow profitable for us to think, but what we REALLY THINK about what's right and what's wrong and what's important. Times when we just have to stop posturing and pick where we're going to draw our line.

And when we come to such times, that's when our real characters show through. We show our true colors, as it were. That's when people see the real us and can know where they stand with us and what they can expect from us. That's the no-bullshit hour.

And I think we've been in such times ever since 9/11. Over and over, I've seen people, in both private and public life, step up and declare themselves -- in response to 9/11, to the wars, to the Patriot Act, to a hundred different things. And now to this election.

I've been horribly disappointed by some people I had previously respected, admired and trusted. And I've been amazingly positively surprised by some people who I had thought of as diametrically opposed to everything I believed in. I've had to adjust my thinking over and over again.

And now I get to adjust my thinking about TAI, and I am happy to do it.

I'm sure we'll be back at it, tooth and nail, soon enough, but this time, I hope it will be fun.

Let's hope it will be everything you declare, and more.

Can you prove they truly worked for it? I'm a conservative and I agree that taxing the wealthy isn't the best idea, but these are times where the unwanted is sometimes necessary.

Tax Returns? Bank Account Transactions? Portfolios? A look into their background and history?

Unfortuantely, the unwanted couldn't come at a worse time, the top 10% of Americans pay over half of the nations taxes, and many live in lifestyles arranged around those tax rates. (huge mansions, limosines, private jets, stock investments out the wazooo) And by taxing them abrubtly and not gradually, it could seriously throw them off.... And who knows? Could even cause them to go bankrupt....

There are plenty of other offices, aren't there? He could become Barack Obama, president/prime minister/pope of the United States of America-Kingdom-Canada-Mexico-Holy See.

That is is a weird yet possible scenario....:p

True, but is much better than having people with no money, thus, no spending in the economy. As for the government limiting spending, that is absoutlely right, if it does not limit spending, then it could severly hurt when the market bounces back down....An example is now...

Ah, yeah but then the government should be increasing spending when ithe economy begins to slow down or go into negative growth.

That may work in some cases, but taking a rich persons money and giving it to the poor doesn't exactly spell "immediate help" in the economy. Besides, the rich in america invest and consume far more in the economy than lower income persons (hence their enormous wealth), and such trickle down effect could take a long time to implement.

I'm not to sure what you are trying to say here. So I will say maybe and I would have to look into it more.

Well I don't know about you but I'm tired. I'm going to get some sleep. Night all.

My question is, how would you address him if achieved that post?

(Obama walks into a meeting with some officials)

Obama: Hello, ladies and gentlemen.

Official: Hello, Mr. Pres...I mean...Prime...I mean, your Holy...AHHH!!!

(Head explodes)Delightful.
He'd probably have to be addressed by a "Majesty" title, that would encompass all of his other titles. Or, whichever one took precedence over the other.
Like "President of the World" would take precedence over Prime Minister of the U.K.
...OK, I'll stop taking your post seriously now. :D

Ah, yeah but then the government should be increasing spending when ithe economy begins to slow down or go into negative growth.

:confused: Now I dont understand what you are saying lol....

I'm not to sure what you are trying to say here. So I will say maybe and I would have to look into it more.

I am not supprised it took me awhile to understand myself, just thank a lot of economic inlook and common sense..

Or you could do both decrease taxes and increase government spending.

lol hey bush! wait . . . thats the reason your in a recession in the first place? ,. . . .hmmmm

My question is, how would you address him if achieved that post?

(Obama walks into a meeting with some officials)

Obama: Hello, ladies and gentlemen.

Official: Hello, Mr. Pres...I mean...Prime...I mean, your Holy...AHHH!!!

(Head explodes)
If we go with the simple "King of Cool" then we could address him as "Yo-Bama!" :D

lol hey bush! wait . . . thats the reason your in a recession in the first place? ,. . . .hmmmm
No, the reason the US is in a recession is due to greedy banks and the US public being overentitled mugs who thought they all deserved to buy a house.

lol hey bush! wait . . . thats the reason your in a recession in the first place? ,. . . .hmmmm

lol, I said during times of recession not during times of an economic boom.

If we go with the simple "King of Cool" then we could address him as "Yo-Bama!" :D
Och but then if ever I saw him in real life, I'd say "sup ma nigga" as I do to all of my white pals and get stoned to death :(

I'd like the next person who debates with New Potomac to link him to my post, please.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14175054&postcount=667

It would mean alot, thanks. I don't want him to miss that.

:confused: Now I dont understand what you are saying lol....

The economy is experiencing a boom, so it limits spending to control inflation, the economy takes a down turn now the government should increase its spending in order to combat this and attempt to stimulate the economy again.

I am not supprised it took me awhile to understand myself, just thank a lot of economic inlook and common sense..

Well explain it to me then.

lol, I said during times of recession not during times of an economic boom.

I think it was a 'bad evaluation' of what you were saying :)

Och but then if ever I saw him in real life, I'd say "sup ma nigga" as I do to all of my white pals and get stoned to death :(That's a forbidden word for anybody who isn't African American where I live. o_0
Say it, and it's like you killed Jesus, or something.

Och but then if ever I saw him in real life, I'd say "sup ma nigga" as I do to all of my white pals and get stoned to death :(
And there would be much rejoicing. :tongue:

It's supposed to go like this (in the vision):

Announcer: Ladies and gentleman, I give you... Barack Obama, President of the United States and King of Cool!

Public who, of course, are cool: Yo-Bama! What's happening, man?

Obama: It's cool, baby. How you been?

Public: Chill, daddy-o.

I'd like the next person who debates with New Potomac to link him to my post, please.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14175054&postcount=667

It would mean alot, thanks. I don't want him to miss that.
I think he'd have a hard time missing it. If he is silent on it, that doesn't mean he didn't see it. But if need be, I'll be happy direct him to it.

The economy is experiencing a boom, so it limits spending to control inflation, the economy takes a down turn now the government should increase its spending in order to combat this and attempt to stimulate the economy again.

Thank you...though where would the extra money come from? Cutting other expenses I suppose

Lol pork! :)

Well explain it to me then.

Yay my turn...

Okay, rich people spend and invest more than people that are poor, thus, they are a key factor in driving the economy. The poor people hardly spend and invest and save more of their money. If we suddenly take a part of what the rich people invest and give it to the poor it will cause 2 things...

1. Rich people have less money, therefore, less investing...
2. The poor people will have to adjust their lifestyle to match the sudden influx of money into their pocket, so it would take some time before they start spending much more.

So it is not an immediate effect, and there are some consequences.

That's a forbidden word for anybody who isn't African American where I live. o_0
Say it, and it's like you killed Jesus, or something.
It's basically forbidden here full stop, but I only say it to mah wiggas.
And they would no doubt be grateful that you finally gave them the excuse they were waiting for. :tongue:

It's supposed to like this:

Announcer: Ladies and gentleman, I give you... Barack Obama, President of the United States and King of Cool!

Public who, of course, are cool: Yo-Bama! What's happening, man?

Obama: It's cool, baby. How you been?

Public: Chill, daddy-o.
S'true :tongue:

It's basically forbidden here full stop, but I only say it to mah wiggas.I was informed by an African American student at my school that only white people can be racist.
Now, somebody please explain this to me.

I was informed by an African American student at my school that only white people can be racist.


How cute and naive of him.

How cute and naive of him.But saying anything to contradict that statement automatically made me a racist.
Seriously. Now I just laugh at stuff like this, but it got me thinking.
How do we end racism when people of all ethnicities refuse to believe that they're actually being racist themselves? :confused:

Thank you...though where would the extra money come from? Cutting other expenses I suppose

Governments can go into deficiet and borrow money that's where it comes from they can either print more money (a bad idea) or issue government bonds.

Lol pork! :)
Not getting the joke.

Yay my turn...

Okay, rich people spend and invest more than people that are poor, thus, they are a key factor in driving the economy. The poor people hardly spend and invest and save more of their money. If we suddenly take a part of what the rich people invest and give it to the poor it will cause 2 things...

1. Rich people have less money, therefore, less investing...
2. The poor people will have to adjust their lifestyle to match the sudden influx of money into their pocket, so it would take some time before they start spending much more.

So it is not an immediate effect, and there are some consequences.

Are ok I see what you are saying here, however, they will adjust their spending and begin spending this extra money.

Now you say poor people hardly spend. That all depends on their marginal propensity to consume. What is it in America? The higher it is the more they will spend the lower it is the more they will save so that would also need to be taken into account. In 2004 the MPC of Australia was 102% meaning they spent 102% of what they were earning now more money for them would mean that these welfare payments would be spent on the economy, if it was a lot lower say 30% then yes they would save a large amount of it and the effects wouldn't be as great.

I was informed by an African American student at my school that only white people can be racist.
Now, somebody please explain this to me.
Aye, that's untrue, but calling your white/latino/asian pals 'nigga' really takes a profound understanding that you are being ironic instead of just rude.

Now really, how can you be naive AND corrupt at the same time?The two are not mutually exclusive. In Hussein's case, the naivete is in his approach to foreign policy. The corruption comes from his Chicago politics background.

The two are not mutually exclusive. In Hussein's case, the naivete is in his approach to foreign policy. The corruption comes from his Chicago politics background.

Me thinks you dont know anything about Chicago politics outside of what Fox News told you.


Me thinks you dont know anything, for that matter.

The two are not mutually exclusive. In Hussein's case, the naivete is in his approach to foreign policy. The corruption comes from his Chicago politics background.

And you keep referring to the President Elect as "Hussein." Are you still trying to push that "Obama is a Closet Muslim Terrorist Supporter" tripe that was shot down on November 4th?

You're rejecting your citizenship? I guess we can call you a stateless person now. Nope. Just rejecting your boy Hussein.

Wait a minute. Weren't you one of those who were always whining about illegals and how non-Americans didn't have rights? No. Stop making crap up.

Nope. Just rejecting your boy Hussein.

No. Stop making crap up.

Isnt it past your bed time?

Yeah, well, it really really hit me.

I'm ready to stand behind my new President and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Let's see what America can do.

Acceptance of a Democrat president. From TAI? My world is crumbling! :eek:

Acceptance of a Democrat president. From TAI? My world is crumbling! :eek:

Don't keep reading then, you'll get to my 'speech'.

Then your world might shatter. ;)

Nope. Just rejecting your boy Hussein.

That's OK, along with New Mitanni you seem to one of a couple of people who are now showing their true colors, casting away democracy and the USA entirely in favor of your own flavor of fringe lunacy. Everyone is entitled to their own, wrong, opinions.

Don't keep reading then, you'll get to my 'speech'.

Then your world might shatter. ;)Was it weird that I was listening to "When Worlds Collide" when I read your 'speech'? :cool:

That's OK, along with New Mitanni you seem to one of a couple of people who are now showing their true colors, casting away democracy and the USA entirely in favor of your own flavor of fringe lunacy. Everyone is entitled to their own, wrong, opinions.

Amazing how these true "patriots" stop thinking America is so great and perfect once their boy looses.

Don't keep reading then, you'll get to my 'speech'.

Then your world might shatter. ;)

Thanks to you, I have to stock up on superglue now. *grumbles*

Still, that speaks much better of you than my original impression.

Nope. Just rejecting your boy Hussein.

No. Stop making crap up.

We can't. You've made up so much that we can't wave our arms to complete the incantations to make more crap up.

Amazing how these true "patriots" stop thinking America is so great and perfect once their boy looses.Seriously.
Isn't there a term for that? It eludes me at the moment.

Nope. Just rejecting your boy Hussein.

No. Stop making crap up.

Wow, I came back for this crap? I love debating with Blouman because he makes rational arguments. Calling Barack by his middle name in a continued attempt to promote fear of him just makes you look silly. This was the biggest margin of victory in both the EC and popular vote in a very long time. People didn't fall for your baiting before and will not do so now. Barack Obama was the best man for the job at this time and that had nothing to do with being black.

Back to topic: We're not always talking about welfare when we talk about the economic plan. We're talking about families who work 2 or more jobs to make ends meet having a little more money. Perhaps they spend this money on new clothes, a new car (or a newer car) or even to take their family on a vacation they haven't had in years. They will put this money back into the businesses in their local area. People who wouldn't have been able to come out to my restaurant may actually enjoy a meal out with their family. This means I make more $, the company makes more money, and we can afford to hire people because we have new revenue coming in. This means my employees have more money and can spend it elsewhere. This is how the economy cycles. Face it, we are a consumerist nation and we need people to spend.

Acceptance of a Democrat president. From TAI? My world is crumbling! :eek:

A Democratic President he refers to as a Leftist. And NSG knows just how much he adores Leftists.

Was it weird that I was listening to "When Worlds Collide" when I read your 'speech'? :cool:
Nah. Destiny.
Thanks to you, I have to stock up on superglue now. *grumbles*

Still, that speaks much better of you than my original impression.
Well, look at it this way.

You'll be injecting alot of money into the economy with each and every super glue purchase. :p
Amazing how these true "patriots" stop thinking America is so great and perfect once their boy looses.
What short sighted rights and lefties don't understand, is that it's not that Bush led us or that Obama is leading us that makes America great, but that we could go from Bush leading us to Obama leading us, a revolution if you will.

Which is more or less what the Founders wanted. True, it's not a bloody let's-decapitate-our-leader revolution, but it's as close as possible for a civilized nation.

Which is what makes America great.

Nope. Just rejecting your boy Hussein.

No. Stop making crap up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Katganistan/NS%20forum%20macros/trollbridge-katdancer.jpg

Amazing how these true "patriots" stop thinking America is so great and perfect once their boy looses.

The thing is, I can already sense some of them are going to say, "But You Lefty Liberals cast away Democracy, when you demanded that whole recount thing for Bush!" because in their minds, it's only fair (nevermind the differences between the two situations!).

But it's really petty. Especially the "Hussein" thing. I mean if sour grapes and bigotry are really all that opponents to Obama have to contribute to the national politic, things could be easy... or insanely difficult..

But I'm much more heartened when folks like TAI can support the president-elect despite their opposition to his politics. The first response says that some people really want civil war, race riots, and fascism - the second that some people actually do give a shit about this country.

And that's something. :)

We can't. You've made up so much that we can't wave our arms to complete the incantations to make more crap up.I think I can do it with my tongue! Let me try! :p

Never mind. He's giving us enough stuff to not have to "make up things".