NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, I'm curious. Why and where did it happen? I'm still a virgin. :(

Stop to consider that someone could lose their virginity at 21,22,23,24 etc?

Stop to consider that someone could lose their virginity at 21,22,23,24 etc?

You can only fit 10 options on a poll.

In the far distant future, if ever.

I honestly don't care. The idea of people sticking their parts into each other still maintains a strong "eeewww" factor for me. As I'm nearly 21, I strongly suspect I won't grow out of it. I have felt "attracted" to both men and women, but "doing the deed" just don't appeal with either.

You can only fit 10 options on a poll.
And "lost virginity over 20" couldn't fit?

You don't have an option for 20+...


...I had sex before then, but I have some friends who didn't until their (early) 20s, they're not virgins anymore.

Let's be honest, the whole structure of this poll + thread is about this guy feeling sorry for himself that he can't get laid. Boo-fucking-hoo.

And "lost virginity over 20" couldn't fit?

No.

Let's be honest, the whole structure of this poll + thread is about this guy feeling sorry for himself that he can't get laid. Boo-fucking-hoo.

Not at all. I'm interested in the age Generalites lost their virginity. I added my comment because it answers the question and is completely relevant.

Not at all. I'm interested in the age Generalites lost their virginity. I added my comment because it answers the question and is completely relevant.

How old are you, out of interest?

14, lost my virginity to a 15 year old. Wouldn't recommend it. Sure it was loads of fun, and we did everything we could think of, but I think if I'd been older I would of savored it a bit more.

how old are you, out of interest?

24.

Yeah, forget it mate. 24 is well past it. You're guying to die alone like the big freak you are.

Yeah, forget it mate. 24 is well past it. You're guying to die alone like the big freak you are.

Haha, wtf?

Yeah, forget it mate. 24 is well past it. You're guying to die alone like the big freak you are.

Thankyou for being so polite.

I am a heterosexual male. Define losing my virginity - when I first inserted part of my body other than my penis in a vagina, when I first inserted my penis in a vagina, when I first inserted my penis in a female body orifice other than the vagina, my first handjob etc. etc. etc.

Penis in vagina or asshole. BJs don't count, nor do handjobs.

Sirmomo1 basically your saying anyone who is over 24 and still a virgin will never going to get a girlfriend? And also in saying that, your also saying anyone UNDER 24 will get a girl because they've caved in under peer pressure to have sex - like yourself. In saving that "special moment" when you lose your virginity your probably being more mature than just going in all guns blazing and losing your virginity at like 15. Consider that, YOU BIG FREAK!

Ok, go to a bar, find yourself some trollop, bone her, and get over it. It's just sex, it's like air, only a big deal if you're not getting it.

The definition of virginity as based on penis-in-vagina sex is lame. I lost my virginity loooooooooooooooooooong before I bothered trying that.

Penis in vagina.

Hmm. 22 then IIRC.

The definition of virginity as based on penis-in-vagina sex is lame. I lost my virginity loooooooooooooooooooong before I bothered trying that.

Same here. But it is Adunabar's poll, so his/her definition.

Penis in vagina or asshole. BJs don't count, nor do handjobs.
So lesbians are permanent virgins?

So lesbians are permanent virgins?

Dildos count as penises.

Sirmomo1 basically your saying anyone who is over 24 and still a virgin will never going to get a girlfriend? And also in saying that, your also saying anyone UNDER 24 will get a girl because they've caved in under peer pressure to have sex - like yourself. In saving that "special moment" when you lose your virginity your probably being more mature than just going in all guns blazing and losing your virginity at like 15. Consider that, YOU BIG FREAK!
What peer pressure? Some of us had sex before the age of 24 because we wanted to.

I wasn't aware that there was any peer pressure, although I did sort of want to get that first experience out of the way.

Dildos count as penises.
I don't know if all lesbians use dildos. Although if dildos count as penises, does that mean that a woman who masturbates with one is no longer a virgin?

Dildos count as penises.

Do mouths count as vaginae?

It's all arbitrary anyway.

I don't know if all lesbians use dildos. Although if dildos count as penises, does that mean that a woman who masturbates with one is no longer a virgin?

No, neither is a man.

Dildos count as penises.
So a gal who's played with a vibrator isn't a virgin, eh? I guess then my "first" was battery operated...

Of course, if dildos count as penises, then how about fingers? Toes? Tongues?

Do anuses count as vaginas? What about mouths? Hands? That crease behind your knee?

Do mouths count as vaginas?

Fixed.

No, read my earlier post.

Dildos count as penises.

I think you're confused.

So a gal who's played with a vibrator isn't a virgin, eh? I guess then my "first" was battery operated...

When another person is inserting one into you, is what I should've said.

Do anuses count as vaginas? What about mouths? Hands? That crease behind your knee?

Read the earlier post from me.

So a gal who's played with a vibrator isn't a virgin, eh? I guess then my "first" was battery operated...
What about non-penetrating vibrators?

I suspect that this comes down to either virginity being a silly thing to care about or everyone defines for themselves when their virginity is lost.

So I lost mine at 17, and as soon as I did, I could not for the life of me figure out why everyone thought it was such a huge deal, even though beforehand I thought it was a big deal.

Short story - It doesn't really matter that much. Having sex isn't and shouldn't be like a "goal"...It's just like...the next thing you do... Sort of like making out is the next thing to kissing. It's not like some huge event with fireworks and cake, it's just the next thing in a linear progression of how far you go with your girl/guy.

I think you're confused.
What's confusing? He's simply saying that a gal who has privately played with a vibrator is not a virgin, while a man who has sucked 100 cocks is still a virgin as long as he hasn't let his unit contact a vag.

Totally non-confusing.

No, neither is a man.
Why does it make a difference if one is by oneself or with another person? What if someone is watching this masturbatory dildo penetration (and the masturbator is aware of this watching)?

What's confusing? He's simply saying that a gal who has privately played with a vibrator is not a virgin, while a man who has sucked 100 cocks is still a virgin as long as he hasn't let his unit contact a vag.

Totally non-confusing.

I'm still a virgin? :eek

What about non-penetrating vibrators?

I suspect that this comes down to either virginity being a silly thing to care about or everyone defines for themselves when their virginity is lost.
I just think it's goofy and pointless to claim that penetration of a vagina by a penis is somehow magical or special or removes some amorphous quality called "virginity."

I mean, if penetration is what defines loss of virginity, then I lost my virginity to myself while in the bathtub. :P

So I lost mine at 17, and as soon as I did, I could not for the life of me figure out why everyone thought it was such a huge deal, even though beforehand I thought it was a big deal.

Short story - It doesn't really matter that much. Having sex isn't and shouldn't be like a "goal"...It's just like...the next thing you do... Sort of like making out is the next thing to kissing. It's not like some huge event with fireworks and cake, it's just the next thing in a linear progression of how far you go with your girl/guy.
Except that there are precautions that need to be taken when it comes to sex that aren't necessary for many other actions one does with one's guy/girl so it does require a bit more maturity and all this.

I just think it's goofy and pointless to claim that penetration of a vagina by a penis is somehow magical or special or removes some amorphous quality called "virginity."

I mean, if penetration is what defines loss of virginity, then I lost my virginity to myself while in the bathtub. :P
heh, yeah... I seem to recall in grade 5 we had sex ed and we were told that it was ok to touch ourselves, which wasn't something that had even occurred to me to do... in which case I lost my virginity to myself when I was 10 and didn't get an orgasm out of it because I didn't know what I was doing. :p

i totally agree

When another person is inserting one into you, is what I should've said.



Read the earlier post from me.
Again, totally non-confusing:

If a person has inserted a plastic item into your vagina or rectum, you're not a virgin, but if they've inserted their finger(s) it doesn't count. Likewise, somebody masturbating you with a dildo makes you a non-virgin, but if they masturbate you with their mouth you're still a virgin.

What could possibly be confusing about that?

Sirmomo1 basically your saying anyone who is over 24 and still a virgin will never going to get a girlfriend? And also in saying that, your also saying anyone UNDER 24 will get a girl because they've caved in under peer pressure to have sex - like yourself. In saving that "special moment" when you lose your virginity your probably being more mature than just going in all guns blazing and losing your virginity at like 15. Consider that, YOU BIG FREAK!
Your sarcasm metre is borked my friend.

Dildos count as penises.

Wat. You have one of the most bizzare definitions of losing virginity that I've ever read. Also, why on earth do you assume that lesbians use vibrators? Some do, but not all. So the lesbians that don't use dildos are perma-virgins.

Except that there are precautions that need to be taken when it comes to sex that aren't necessary for many other actions one does with one's guy/girl so it does require a bit more maturity and all this.

Yeah I definitely agree with that...But there are a lot of other things that are similar - The first time you drive a car, the first time you get drunk...But no one says "How old were you when you lost your car virignity?"

There's something about sex that people, and forgive me for saying that it tends to be people who are still virgins, think it's a celebrated event or something.

Again, totally non-confusing:

If a person has inserted a plastic item into your vagina or rectum, you're not a virgin, but if they've inserted their finger(s) it doesn't count. Likewise, somebody masturbating you with a dildo makes you a non-virgin, but if they masturbate you with their mouth you're still a virgin.

What could possibly be confusing about that?

So I lost my virginity at 12 when I recieved my first pelvic exam.:eek:

Again, totally non-confusing:

If a person has inserted a plastic item into your vagina or rectum, you're not a virgin, but if they've inserted their finger(s) it doesn't count. Likewise, somebody masturbating you with a dildo makes you a non-virgin, but if they masturbate you with their mouth you're still a virgin.

What could possibly be confusing about that?

Or:

If someone else has inserted a plastic item into your vagina or rectum, you're not a virgin, but if you insert that exact same plastic item yourself, you are still a virgin.

Yeah I definitely agree with that...But there are a lot of other things that are similar - The first time you drive a car, the first time you get drunk...But no one says "How old were you when you lost your car virignity?"
That makes me think of when did a person first have sex in a car... not when did a person first drive though. But yeah, I get your point.

There's something about sex that people, and forgive me for saying that it tends to be people who are still virgins, think it's a celebrated event or something.
When I still hadn't had sex I didn't think it was a celebrated event, I just wanted to try it (partly because I heard that the first time was likely to hurt and I figured getting it over with would be good). But yeah, I remember it like I remember any other "first time" with a different guy, it's just that that time was a bit more awkward and not very good.

Yeah I definitely agree with that...But there are a lot of other things that are similar - The first time you drive a car, the first time you get drunk...But no one says "How old were you when you lost your car virignity?"

There's something about sex that people, and forgive me for saying that it tends to be people who are still virgins, think it's a celebrated event or something.
Absolutely. The question should be, "when did you first have good sex?", that's something to celebrate.

I can give a date on that one. October 17, 2000

Or:

If someone else has inserted a plastic item into your vagina or rectum, you're not a virgin, but if you insert that exact same plastic item yourself, you are still a virgin.
And you're possibly still a virgin if you have inserted this item while receiving directions from someone who is watching you do this... he hasn't got back to me on this question yet though.

So I lost my virginity at 12 when I recieved my first pelvic exam.:eek:

Fair sure you can sue for that.

Absolutely. The question should be, "when did you first have good sex?", that's something to celebrate.

I can give a date on that one. October 17, 2000
I can't put a date on that one, it's something that gradually got better.

So if someone uses a glass dildo on me then I'm still a virgin???

Absolutely. The question should be, "when did you first have good sex?", that's something to celebrate.

I can give a date on that one. October 17, 2000

I don't remember the date, but I do remember the details, which go way beyond PG-13.

Fair sure you can sue for that.

Indeed. That's theft of virginity! That certainly wasn't in the patient disclosure forms.:mad:

So if someone uses a glass dildo on me then I'm still a virgin???
Or a silicon one (where silicon is not in the form of glass)... which I think is what they're usually made of anyways.

I don't remember the date, but I do remember the details, which go way beyond PG-13.

Well, yeah, good sex would.

I can't put a date on that one, it's something that gradually got better.

I suck at dates so I can't put a date on it either, but I can remember how it went down, so I would agree that your first good (Actually I'd rather go with "your best") sex is the one that is more remarkable.

Or a silicon one (where silicon is not in the form of glass)... which I think is what they're usually made of anyways.

Depends on where you get them. They come in all kinds of spiffy materials and shapes.:D

Depends on where you get them. They come in all kinds of spiffy materials and shapes.:D

Baby Jesus Buttplug.

I suck at dates so I can't put a date on it either, but I can remember how it went down, so I would agree that your first good (Actually I'd rather go with "your best") sex is the one that is more remarkable.
I'm not sure, I mean, so like with one guy I had sex that I considered good at the time, but I'm not sure that I would still consider it good if I had the same sex today because I'm more experienced and have encountered more (and better) tricks.

I'm not sure, I mean, so like with one guy I had sex that I considered good at the time, but I'm not sure that I would still consider it good if I had the same sex today because I'm more experienced and have encountered more (and better) tricks.

It's getting better each time, so "best" would be hard to say.....like was best this morning? sure, but next time will probably be better.....so then it's the best.

The answer to the question depends entirely on how one defines virginity. Seeing as I think the OP's definition is absurd, I'll just go with "somewhere between 18 and not yet" and cover every definition I can think of. :tongue:

(Well, almost every definition - I am excluding things that don't involve another person at all, because that just gets silly enough that I'd have to go with "somewhere between birth and death.")

Absolutely. The question should be, "when did you first have good sex?", that's something to celebrate.

I can give a date on that one. October 17, 2000

I can't really give a date, but I have a month. September, 2001.

=)

Oh, and as to the OP's question, by the definition I used at the time, I was 19. By other definitions, maybe a year earlier.

Baby Jesus Buttplug.

If that's what floats your boat, why not? Personally that would tramatize me for life.

At what age did you lose your virginity?
Well, I'm curious. Why and where did it happen? I'm still a virgin. :(
wait...
*checks pockets*
whew... nope, didn't lose it... I still got it.

This thread is awesome.

I have yet to encounter a definition of virginity that wouldn't leave me as a virgin.

Penis in vagina or asshole. BJs don't count, nor do handjobs.

This is a hilarious definition that reeks of not only virginity, but also of serious issues surrounding that state, and of sex ideas that are formed near exclusively by secretly watching bad porn.
So I lost my virginity at 12 when I received my first pelvic exam.:eek:

Wait wait wait. We've just established that only plastic dildos or penises count (as long as they are inserted by someone other than the recipient), while dildos of other materials or other body parts including fingers and mouths definitely do not. So.. you've had a penis or plastic dildo inserted into you during our pelvic exam? That's seriously fucked up.

I have yet to encounter a definition of virginity that wouldn't leave me as a virgin.

Thinking dirty thoughts that somehow include a penis or plastic dildo being shoved into either an anus or a vagina de-virginifies you?

This is a hilarious definition that reeks of not only virginity, but also of serious issues surrounding that state, and of sex ideas that are formed near exclusively by secretly watching bad porn.

Honestly, I don't watch porn

while dildos of other materials do not.

When did I say that?

You didn't answer my question about someone using a dildo on themselves while being watched by someone else... are they still a virgin?

Wait wait wait. We've just established that only plastic dildos or penises count (as long as they are inserted by someone other than the recipient), while dildos of other materials or other body parts including fingers and mouths definitely do not. So.. you've had a penis or plastic dildo inserted into you during our pelvic exam? That's seriously fucked up.

I thought it was established that plastic objects in general inserted into the vagina by another person counted as virginity losing. So plastic speculum = lost virginity but glass dildo inserted by a third party = virginity.

Thinking dirty thoughts that somehow include a penis or plastic dildo being shoved into either an anus or a vagina de-virginifies you?

Ok, now I have.

When did I say that?
I don't think you personally did; some other poster was kind enough to fill that in for you during your conspicuous absence.

I thought it was established that plastic objects in general inserted into the vagina by another person counted as virginity losing. So plastic speculum = lost virginity but glass dildo inserted by a third party = virginity.

Oh, I missed the abstraction to all plastic objects. My bad, I ought to try and keep up better.

Ok, now I have.

Glad to have been of assistance. May I now claim that I've taken your virginity?

You didn't answer my question about someone using a dildo on themselves while being watched by someone else... are they still a virgin?

Right. And while they're at it, they could go into more detail and explain whether anything changes if the inserter/recipient is not only watched by said other party, but they are using this funny remote-controlled vibrator that I've seen in a recent catalogue where you shove it in yourself but your partner gets to make it dance while lazily watching from the couch?

Glad to have been of assistance. May I now claim that I've taken your virginity?

I find this acceptable.

Right. And while they're at it, they could go into more detail and explain whether anything changes if the inserter/recipient is not only watched by said other party, but they are using this funny remote-controlled vibrator that I've seen in a recent catalogue where you shove it in yourself but your partner gets to make it dance while lazily watching from the couch?

Sounds handy.

...What?

Adunabar, have you seen Chasing Amy?

I find this acceptable.
Marvelous.
Sounds handy.

...What?

Yeah. I've wondered whether it would work through office walls.


Also, there's been one "love-egg" in the same catalogue that'd somehow wirelessly connect to your mobile phone and vibrate whenever a pre-defined number would call your phone. Highly intriguing.

I thought it was established that plastic objects in general inserted into the vagina by another person counted as virginity losing. So plastic speculum = lost virginity but glass dildo inserted by a third party = virginity.

No, it's gpt nothing to do with plastic, I never said it did.

This thread amuses me.

Adunabar, have you seen Chasing Amy?

What?

No, it's gpt nothing to do with plastic, I never said it did.

So speculums count be they plastic or metal.

I don't think you personally did; some other poster was kind enough to fill that in for you during your conspicuous absence.

It's called an evening meal. That's where I went. Not hiding.

So speculums count be they plastic or metal.

Speculum?

Speculum?

http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00ZbETThtqTawQM/Vaginal-Speculum-with-Side-Screw.jpg

It seems to me that losing one's virginity would constitute the act of another person giving you an orgasm via genital contact, or by proxy thereof.

What?

It's a movie.

There's a discussion on this very subject.

It's called an evening meal. That's where I went. Not hiding.

Has it been rich in protein?

It seems to me that losing one's virginity would constitute the act of another person giving you an orgasm via genital contact, or by proxy thereof.

So anorgasmic women are forever virgins?

Has it been rich in protein?

No, it was a pizza. What's that got to do with the topic?

Virginity. How quaint.

The first time I had an orgasm that someone else was involved in, I was fifteen.

So anorgasmic women are forever virgins?

Yes.

So anorgasmic women are forever virgins?
You're being sexist. What about anorgasmic men?
No, it was a pizza. What's that got to do with the topic?

Just idle curiosity. What's been topping it?

i totally agree
I disagree!

I can't really give a date, but I have a month. September, 2001.

=)
:eek2:

Why do you hate freedom? :(

This thread is awesome.
You thread-virgin!

I have yet to encounter a definition of virginity that wouldn't leave me as a virgin.
Well... Looking at nude women in some way, shape or form should remove your virginity, shouldn't it?

This thread amuses me.
It's like sex.

The first time I had an orgasm that someone else was involved in

"Involved" is ambiguous, too.

You're being sexist. What about anorgasmic men?


If they're gay, no. If they're straight, yes.

No, it was a pizza. What's that got to do with the topic?

Hmm... Usually it's the plumber... Or the cable repair man.


*Bow Chicka Bow-Wow*

Just idle curiosity. What's been topping it?

Cheese and tomato.

Hmm... Usually it's the plumber... Or the cable repair man.

What?

If they're gay, no. If they're straight, yes.

Why should sexuality be a factor?

Cheese and tomato.

Ah, cheese you say. Probably squirted all over the thing, eh?

What?


*Bow Chicka Bow-Wow*

Why should sexuality be a factor?

Because straight men must be able to orgasm in order to be non-virgins. Everyone knows that.

Ah, cheese you say. Probably squirted all over the thing, eh?

It's so annoying when it drips all over your face...

It's so annoying when it drips all over your face...

Some people like that part.

Ah, cheese you say. Probably squirted all over the thing, eh?

There were actually 5 big dollops, with smaller scatterings across the thing, and it was fairly sticky.
I'm not completely blind to sexual innuendo.

Because straight men must be able to orgasm in order to be non-virgins. Everyone knows that.

No they don't. Or was that a jab for this thread's definition of virginity?

What?

You didn't get that one? Whoa.

You didn't get that one? Whoa.

I'm sorry.

"Involved" is ambiguous, too.

Yep, but what can I do? Even if I believed in virginity, I wouldn't know how to define it.

No they don't.

Of course they do. Straight men and all women must acheive orgasm to be considered non-virgins. I don't know where you come from, but that's the standard definition in the two countries I've lived in.

Over 20, still a virgin, not by choice.

Yep, but what can I do? Even if I believed in virginity, I wouldn't know how to define it.

This (http://lloydi.com/travel-writing/round-the-world-trip/country/06-thailand/01-chiang-mai/images/strange-fruit-sleeping-lady.jpg) is the definition of virginity.

Wow, I didn't even consider whether one achieved orgasm or not as a factor!

'Course, it doesn't change my answer of "somewhere between 18 and not yet," but it does add a couple more events to the list of possible virginity-losses. :tongue:

Also, there's been one "love-egg" in the same catalogue that'd somehow wirelessly connect to your mobile phone and vibrate whenever a pre-defined number would call your phone. Highly intriguing.

Link please.

*Bow Chicka Bow-Wow*

Now remember the kiddo "doesn't watch porn, honestly", so play nice.

It's so annoying when it drips all over your face...

You think?


I'm not completely blind to sexual innuendo.
Not?You fake it well enough.

Of course they do. Straight men and all women must acheive orgasm to be considered non-virgins. I don't know where you come from, but that's the standard definition in the two countries I've lived in.

Nah, you've confused that. If the woman orgasms, she's a creepy perv who'll probably come off to anything, so the act does not necessarily have to have been sex.

A man, of course, shall have to orgasm ASAP or it doesn't count.

Link please.

I don't think any site selling those would meet this forum's PG-13 standards, but I've seen them in more than one online sex toy store, so you should be able to find one with just a bit of googling.

This (http://lloydi.com/travel-writing/round-the-world-trip/country/06-thailand/01-chiang-mai/images/strange-fruit-sleeping-lady.jpg) is the definition of virginity.

http://vwkombi.com/theft.gif

This (http://lloydi.com/travel-writing/round-the-world-trip/country/06-thailand/01-chiang-mai/images/strange-fruit-sleeping-lady.jpg) is the definition of virginity.

Theft?

Wow, I didn't even consider whether one achieved orgasm or not as a factor!

It depends if you're considering the prickly pears or not. If you include the pears in the sex act then you don't need to have an orgasm or another person present.

Link please.

a) NOT PG-13.

b) It's in this paper catalogue I've sitting next to me.. but I shall try to locate it online and TG it to you.

Nah, you've confused that. If the woman orgasms, she's a creepy perv who'll probably come off to anything, so the act does not necessarily have to have been sex.

A man, of course, shall have to orgasm ASAP or it doesn't count.

Ah yes, I did get that backward. But gay men are impervious to the rules and regulations defining loss of virginity and sexual conduct. Lucky bastards. >>

You don't have an option for 20+....

Fixed.

I don't think any site selling those would meet this forum's PG-13 standards, but I've seen them in more than one online sex toy store, so you should be able to find one with just a bit of googling.

I wanted to make him google that. :p

You're being sexist. What about anorgasmic men?

Erm....them too!



Why do you hate freedom?

I don't. We were celebrating freedom! *nodnod*

Not?You fake it well enough.


No, I honestly don't, it's just that one was blindingly obvious.

22. Fun enough, but wish it had been with someone else. Especially given the fact I swear afterward she found herself a new rod to jump up and down on. Yeah, sour feelings toward the broad.

I wanted to make him google that. :p

I sincerely hope "him" did not refer to me.

No, I honestly don't, it's just that one was blindingly obvious.

As were the others, sweety pie.

Perhaps we could start a business whereby everyone who wonders whether or not they are still a virgin can come to us and be engaged in a series of acts that will remove all doubt. It'll be kind of like goal-oriented prostitution. :)

As were the others, sweety pie.

They were?

Perhaps we could start a business whereby everyone who wonders whether or not they are still a virgin can come to us and be engaged in a series of acts that will remove all doubt.

If we think people might still be virgins can we force them in?

I sincerely hope "him" did not refer to me.

I of course meant him in the standard nongender nonracial nonclassist kind of way.

Sorry.

If we think people might still be virgins can we force them in?

If that's what they pay for, yes.

Perhaps we could start a business whereby everyone who wonders whether or not they are still a virgin can come to us and be engaged in a series of acts that will remove all doubt. It'll be kind of like goal-oriented prostitution. :)

It'd be best if we grouped the various virgin potentials in like-minded teams so that they could rectify each other's situation - it's more efficient, saving non-virgin resources and all that. Of course, all non-virgins who're still into fumbling, awkward sex may volunteer, too.
I of course meant him in the standard nongender nonracial nonclassist kind of way.

Sorry.

I hate how everybody on the internet ignores my glorious set of boobs, enchanting feminine facial features and alluring, firm yet curvy ass.

I hate how everybody on the internet ignores my glorious set of boobs, enchanting feminine facial features and alluring, firm yet curvy ass.

We can't ignore it as it's never been shared. However, if it was shared, we would remember.

We can't ignore it as it's never been shared. However, if it was shared, we would remember.

Beaten to it.

We can't ignore it as it's never been shared.

..with you. I can name (at least) three Generalites who've had the insurmountable pleasure, and funnily enough, there's never been any gender confusion going on with those.

..with you. I can name (at least) three Generalites who've had the insurmountable pleasure, and funnily enough, there's never been any gender confusion going on with those.

See? The defense rests, your honor.

Now remember the kiddo "doesn't watch porn, honestly", so play nice.
Someone needs to fix his cable?

Well, he can start by watching PG-rated porn - for people who like porn but not the sex. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5SiKRAMus)


I don't. We were celebrating freedom! *nodnod*

Ooh. Celebrate with cake!

Absolutely. The question should be, "when did you first have good sex?", that's something to celebrate.

I can give a date on that one. October 17, 2000
Hell yes.

I vaguely remember my first heterosexual penis-in-vagina experience, in the sense that I know roughly how old I was and who I was with, but in all honesty it just wasn't that memorable. And I don't mean that as a slam to my partner; he was VERY nice and considerate, but he was also being so careful not to hurt me that it didn't really end up feeling like all that much to me. My main thought afterwards was, "Well hey, that wasn't a big deal anyhow."

On the other hand, I vividly remember the first time I had an orgasm with somebody. Goshgollywowfuck that was something. Psychologically speaking I'd say that's probably much closer to when I lost my "sexual innocence," because that experience was when I really and truly GOT why people have sex. Up until then sex was something I wanted in sort of a vague and ill-defined way, and I knew lots of other people really loved it, but I wasn't entirely clear on what the big hooplah was all about. I had orgasms by myself, so what did I need somebody else for? And then I had my first orgasm with a partner and I was like, "Oh. Well then. I get it. Hoo-rah!"

Someone needs to fix his cable?

Don't have cable, sorry.

I vaguely remember my first heterosexual penis-in-vagina experience, in the sense that I know roughly how old I was and who I was with, but in all honesty it just wasn't that memorable. And I don't mean that as a slam to my partner; he was VERY nice and considerate, but he was also being so careful not to hurt me that it didn't really end up feeling like all that much to me. My main thought afterwards was, "Well hey, that wasn't a big deal anyhow."

At least he was careful. My first's thought on it was something along the lines of "It's going to hurt her the first few times anyways, so I guess I'll just enjoy it."

Yeah, not a great experience.

Hell yes.

I vaguely remember my first heterosexual penis-in-vagina experience, in the sense that I know roughly how old I was and who I was with, but in all honesty it just wasn't that memorable. And I don't mean that as a slam to my partner; he was VERY nice and considerate, but he was also being so careful not to hurt me that it didn't really end up feeling like all that much to me. My main thought afterwards was, "Well hey, that wasn't a big deal anyhow."

On the other hand, I vividly remember the first time I had an orgasm with somebody. Goshgollywowfuck that was something. Psychologically speaking I'd say that's probably much closer to when I lost my "sexual innocence," because that experience was when I really and truly GOT why people have sex. Up until then sex was something I wanted in sort of a vague and ill-defined way, and I knew lots of other people really loved it, but I wasn't entirely clear on what the big hooplah was all about. I had orgasms by myself, so what did I need somebody else for? And then I had my first orgasm with a partner and I was like, "Oh. Well then. I get it. Hoo-rah!"

Sounds about right.

15.
*rejects the OP's definition*

Dildos count as penises.

No wonder you're still a virgin.

No wonder you're still a virgin.

For the thread, not my actual opinon.

At least he was careful. My first's thought on it was something along the lines of "It's going to hurt her the first few times anyways, so I guess I'll just enjoy it."

Yeah, not a great experience.
Heh, yeah, I always feel a bit bad when recounting my first time because it comes across as being nasty toward the guy. I mean, it's that classic joke about the girl thinking, "Is that it?" during sex.

The thing is, I was really freaked out about having something put in my vagina. For very pragmatic reasons: I'd had a lot of trouble trying to use tampons, and I knew enough about male anatomy to know that the average chap is slightly larger than an ultra-slim Tampax, so I reasoned that if a tampon hurts then a penis will hurt that much more. You can imagine how this would make me somewhat reluctant to try PIV sex.

Then it turned out that the missing factor was lubrication and arousal. My first PIV partner was kind enough to make sure that I was physically ready before he went anywhere near that region. I guess I didn't have a hymen because I experienced no pain at all. Forgive the pun, but my main sense of that experience was that it was very "anti-climactic" after all the worrying I had done.

So while I know guys usually want to be memorable in bed, I'm personally very happy that my first time was LESS memorable than I had expected. I'm particularly glad that my partner didn't make a big goddam deal about "deflowering" me or any other such nonsense.

17, still a virgin.

i lost my virginity at 14 to the woman that i love and we are still together... she was my first and last...

losing your virginity=

female- breaking the thin membrane of skin in the vagina called the hymen, although personally defined as intercourse with a man.

male- partaking in intimate sexual intercourse (not hand job [considered foreplay] nor oral sex [not considered intercourse in its technical definition] nor anal sex [the anus is not a sex organ]), although personally defined as a man having vaginal intercourse with a woman.

general- intercourse involving two sex organs (i.e. penis and vagina)

For the thread, not my actual opinon.

Well that's even stranger, then. If you don't honestly believe it, why make it a parameter in whether or not one lost their virginity?

Sex acts are sex acts, even if it doesn't involve sticking rod A into slot B, C, or D.

Then it turned out that the missing factor was lubrication and arousal.

Mine was relaxation. I was so tense and nervous about it hurting that....it did. As I found with my second partner (now my husband), relaxing made it all much more pleasurable and he understood and encouraged that. =)

Incidentally, this was probably my pre-sex problem with tampons as well. I was so nervous about putting something "down there" that I would reflexively tense up.

/end TMI

21 and I still have the v-card. Being an engineer could have something to do with that.

21 and I still have the v-card. Being an engineer could have something to do with that.

Engineers are hawt.

*is not biased in any way by her own career choice*

i lost my virginity at 14 to the woman that i love and we are still together... she was my first and last...

losing your virginity=

female- breaking the thin membrane of skin in the vagina called the hymen, although personally defined as intercourse with a man.

male- partaking in intimate sexual intercourse (not hand job [considered foreplay] nor oral sex [not considered intercourse in its technical definition] nor anal sex [the anus is not a sex organ]), although personally defined as a man having vaginal intercourse with a woman.

general- intercourse involving two sex organs (i.e. penis and vagina)


should you define losing ones virginity to include such acts as oral sex, anal sex, etc... then any guy can just stick his junk into any random hole or orifice, including inanimate objects, and if it gets him off he can go say hes not a virgin... unfortunately that is not how it works... i have nothing against homosexuals, but yes, that does mean that a permanent homosexual can not lose their virginity, but only under technical terms! under personal terms, if you have sex with your lover, i believe that it is okay to say that you are not a virgin... but that is why it cannot be defined as losing your virginity... to lose ones virginity, they must partake in sexual intercourse between two reproductive organs... the anus, mouth, hand, cleavage, nose, whatever (nose is a joke) are not reproductive organs

42 dam't

Engineers are hawt.

*is not biased in any way by her own career choice*

Manhattan College School of Engineering:

"Where the boys are men, and so are the women."

42 dam't


lol if you are being serious, there is nothing wrong with that... I would assume that you saved yourself for marriage?

Engineers are hawt.

*is not biased in any way by her own career choice*

Nerds are sexy.

should you define losing ones virginity to include such acts as oral sex, anal sex, etc... then any guy can just stick his junk into any random hole or orifice, including inanimate objects, and if it gets him off he can go say hes not a virgin... unfortunately that is not how it works... i have nothing against homosexuals, but yes, that does mean that a permanent homosexual can not lose their virginity, but only under technical terms! under personal terms, if you have sex with your lover, i believe that it is okay to say that you are not a virgin... but that is why it cannot be defined as losing your virginity... to lose ones virginity, they must partake in sexual intercourse between two reproductive organs... the anus, mouth, hand, cleavage, nose, whatever (nose is a joke) are not reproductive organs Go away.

Nerds are sexy.

Go away.


lol what did i do?

*prepares for onslaught of anti/pro-gay rights activists*

Yeah. I've wondered whether it would work through office walls.


Also, there's been one "love-egg" in the same catalogue that'd somehow wirelessly connect to your mobile phone and vibrate whenever a pre-defined number would call your phone. Highly intriguing.
They have ones that run through the internet... you plug the thing into a usb and someone controls it from anywhere on the planet.

woah woah woah! i am NOT anti gay rights! it is just logical that under technical terms, a gay person cannot lose their virginity, but if they feel the need to proclaim otherwise on a personal level, then so be it i agree with them! everybody relax, i didnt mean to cause any trouble lol

i lost my virginity at 14 to the woman that i love and we are still together... she was my first and last...

losing your virginity=

female- breaking the thin membrane of skin in the vagina called the hymen, although personally defined as intercourse with a man.
So I lost my virginity horseback riding before I hit puberty.

male- partaking in intimate sexual intercourse (not hand job [considered foreplay] nor oral sex [not considered intercourse in its technical definition] nor anal sex [the anus is not a sex organ]), although personally defined as a man having vaginal intercourse with a woman.
So gay boys are always virgins no matter how many men they've had sex with.

general- intercourse involving two sex organs (i.e. penis and vagina)
The dictionary says:

in·ter·course /ˈɪntərˌkɔrs, -ˌkoʊrs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-ter-kawrs, -kohrs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. dealings or communication between individuals, groups, countries, etc.
2. interchange of thoughts, feelings, etc.
3. sexual relations or a sexual coupling, esp. coitus.

Sexual relations or a sexual coupling. This is not necessarily man and woman or two sex organs. Just because it's esp. coitus doesn't mean it's only coitus.

Obviously all this argument about definitions has resulted from someone trying to worm out of being a virgin.

On that note, surely a 'work in progress' option would be more favorable?

Woo! Thread has evolved into "define virginity" argument. These are always good to watch. My two cents...I'd say penetration of either front or back passage should fairly obviously be included, though I'm a bit hazy as to what else would count.

female- breaking the thin membrane of skin in the vagina called the hymen

Gosh. I guess I'll have to let my best friend know that she lost her virginity to a bicycle when she was four. That bicycle is going to have to be prosecuted for child molestation now...

So I lost my virginity horseback riding before I hit puberty.


So gay boys are always virgins no matter how many men they've had sex with.


The dictionary says:

in·ter·course /ˈɪntərˌkɔrs, -ˌkoʊrs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-ter-kawrs, -kohrs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. dealings or communication between individuals, groups, countries, etc.
2. interchange of thoughts, feelings, etc.
3. sexual relations or a sexual coupling, esp. coitus.

Sexual relations or a sexual coupling. This is not necessarily man and woman or two sex organs. Just because it's esp. coitus doesn't mean it's only coitus.


but then that rises the subject of what i said earlier... what makes losing your virginity actually "losing your virginity" involves two sex organs... like i said, should you define it the way that you do, then a guy could just put his penis in any hole and say hes not a virgin, because thats exactly what those other orifices are in comparison to the vagina or the penis... the vagina and penis are sex organs... meaning that sex is part of the reason why they are there in the first place... also, all you defined was intercourse... your argument still remains inconclusive as to the actual definition of losing ones virginity... losing ones virginity would be a pointless idea if it was that lenient... and to answer your questions, no, that is not what i was saying, i will admit that i should have been more clear in that statement, but unfortunately, under technical terms, no... gay people can not lose their virginity... that doesnt mean that they cant intimately... just under the technical definition of the phrase, they cannot

not til I was 21. I don't count lesser stuff that happened before that

but then that rises the subject of what i said earlier... what makes losing your virginity actually "losing your virginity" involves two sex organs... like i said, should you define it the way that you do, then a guy could just put his penis in any hole and say hes not a virgin, because thats exactly what those other orifices are in comparison to the vagina or the penis... the vagina and penis are sex organs... meaning that sex is part of the reason why they are there in the first place... also, all you defined was intercourse... your argument still remains inconclusive as to the actual definition of losing ones virginity... losing ones virginity would be a pointless idea if it was that lenient... and to answer your questions, no, that is not what i was saying, i will admit that i should have been more clear in that statement, but unfortunately, under technical terms, no... gay people can not lose their virginity... that doesnt mean that they cant intimately... just under the technical definition of the phrase, they cannot
You also defined virginity loss for women as hymen breaking, I tell you mine was broken long before I had sex either that or I never had one to begin with. It's not my fault that you used two different definitions.

You also said that intercourse was something that only involved a man and a woman, I pointed out that the dictionary does not define intercourse in such a manner.

Further, why the fuck would you care if someone else is a virgin or not, especially why would you care if someone who is still a virgin goes about saying they aren't, especially if they're saying that they aren't because they had their penis in someone else's bum instead of a vagina?

You also defined virginity loss for women as hymen breaking, I tell you mine was broken long before I had sex either that or I never had one to begin with. It's not my fault that you used two different definitions.

You also said that intercourse was something that only involved a man and a woman, I pointed out that the dictionary does not define intercourse in such a manner.

Further, why the fuck would you care if someone else is a virgin or not, especially why would you care if someone who is still a virgin goes about saying they aren't, especially if they're saying that they aren't because they had their penis in someone else's bum instead of a vagina?


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
sexual intercourse
–noun
genital contact, esp. the insertion of the penis into the vagina followed by orgasm; coitus; copulation.
[Origin: 1790–1800]


that is more precise...

and i dont necessarily care, i just saw some debate earlier in the thread about the true definition, so i decided id share my idea of the subject...

and to further defend my claim, its not me that cares so much! do you realize what the subject of this thread is? i was simply providing my input, and everyone freaks out...

i admit i should have been more clear in my initial post (i should have said -sexual- intercourse) and i have already proclaimed that i am not anti gay or any of that bullshit, you are just severely over reacting to almost everything that i say, one would think that your just looking for an argument, but my claim does not change... sexual intercourse involves a penis and a vagina... and to be even more precise, here you go:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
vir·gin /ˈvɜrdʒɪn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[vur-jin] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a person who has never had sexual intercourse.

there! it even says it right there! now combine the two definitions, and my case is proven... i dont mean to offend anyone, i was simply supplying facts to people that were otherwise confused...

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
sexual intercourse
–noun
genital contact, esp. the insertion of the penis into the vagina followed by orgasm; coitus; copulation.
[Origin: 1790–1800]


that is more precise...

and i dont necessarily care, i just saw some debate earlier in the thread about the true definition, so i decided id share my idea of the subject...

and to further defend my claim, its not me that cares so much! do you realize what the subject of this thread is? i was simply providing my input, and everyone freaks out...

i admit i should have been more clear in my initial post (i should have said -sexual- intercourse) and i have already proclaimed that i am not anti gay or any of that bullshit, you are just severely over reacting to almost everything that i say, one would think that your just looking for an argument, but my claim does not change... sexual intercourse involves a penis and a vagina... and to be even more precise, here you go:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
vir·gin /ˈvɜrdʒɪn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[vur-jin] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a person who has never had sexual intercourse.

there! it even says it right there! now combine the two definitions, and my case is proven... i dont mean to offend anyone, i was simply supplying facts to people that were otherwise confused...
We care because your definition is older than dirt and completely ignores the fact that homosexual people exist.

To be honest, if you want the definition of virgin meaningful, then lesbians may have to live with the fact that (unless they've also had sexual intercourse with a male) they are virgins. If the definition is not to do with sexual intercourse, then it becomes meaningless and not consistent.

We care because your definition is older than dirt and completely ignores the fact that homosexual people exist.


to combat your sad attempt at being right, homosexuality has been around since ancient greece and even before that...

so, unless that definition is truly prehistoric, which i highly doubt, your claim holds no water...

To be honest, if you want the definition of virgin meaningful, then lesbians may have to live with the fact that (unless they've also had sexual intercourse with a male) they are virgins. If the definition is not to do with sexual intercourse, then it becomes meaningless and not consistent.


thank you... i am clearly not trying to be mean, its just the truth

To be honest, if you want the definition of virgin meaningful, then lesbians may have to live with the fact that (unless they've also had sexual intercourse with a male) they are virgins. If the definition is not to do with sexual intercourse, then it becomes meaningless and not consistent.
Who said it was meaningful? It only really meant something when women were property or when people want to be proud of being prudes.
I mean, think of all the "technical virgins" in high schools who are taking it in the bum because they're saving themselves for marriage? Is this meaningful?

to combat your sad attempt at being right, homosexuality has been around since ancient greece and even before that...

so, unless that definition is truly prehistoric, which i highly doubt, your claim holds no water...
*sigh* Homosexuality was around before ancient Greece, first of all, the definition isn't technically older than dirt, but it's still antiquated. Homosexuals have been discriminated against for a long time (and in some places they still are) and this definition reflects this. I mean, apparently they can't even get laid because this is something that only a man and a woman can do together.

Who said it was meaningful? It only really meant something when women were property or when people want to be proud of being prudes.
I mean, think of all the "technical virgins" in high schools who are taking it in the bum because they're saving themselves for marriage? Is this meaningful?


your not proving anything, all those kids are still virgins, and so what? you have reduced yourself to being a gay rights and feminism extremist...

*sigh* Homosexuality was around before ancient Greece, first of all, the definition isn't technically older than dirt, but it's still antiquated. Homosexuals have been discriminated against for a long time (and in some places they still are) and this definition reflects this. I mean, apparently they can't even get laid because this is something that only a man and a woman can do together.


if you were paying any attention, you would see that i did say "even before that"... and as a matter of fact, homosexuality was looked upon as the purest form of love in ancient japan, so once again... you are just rambling things that have no factual reinforcement...

your not proving anything, all those kids are still virgins, and so what? you have reduced yourself to being a gay rights and feminism extremist...
How am I a feminism extremist? Because I'm aware that virginity was only really important in a time when effective birth control didn't exist to keep babies from being born out of wedlock? Because I'm aware that women were considered property and that having sex before marriage was damaging her father's property?

I wouldn't say that those kids are virgins at all. When someone has had anal sex with more people than I've even so much as kissed, they're not virgins.

Who said it was meaningful?

It is if you retain the definition of not having sexual intercourse.


It only really meant something when women were property or when people want to be proud of being prudes.

:confused:


I mean, think of all the "technical virgins" in high schools who are taking it in the bum because they're saving themselves for marriage? Is this meaningful?

I believe sodomy counts as sexual intercourse, and in keeping with that definition, they are not virgins.

if you were paying any attention, you would see that i did say "even before that"... and as a matter of fact, homosexuality was looked upon as the purest form of love in ancient japan, so once again... you are just rambling things that have no factual reinforcement...

and "getting laid" is just a slang with no solid definition, meaning that there is no true way that it could be directly tied to virginity...

It is if you retain the definition of not having sexual intercourse.
That wasn't my definition, that was Ziior's.

I believe sodomy counts as sexual intercourse, and in keeping with that definition, they are not virgins.
For sure, but I'm not the one who has been saying that anal sex "doesn't count".

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
sexual intercourse
–noun
genital contact, esp. the insertion of the penis into the vagina followed by orgasm; coitus; copulation.
[Origin: 1790–1800]

You do realize that "especially" does not mean "restricted to", correct?

In fact, the need for "especially" as a modifier suggests that there are other forms of contact that would apply...

if you were paying any attention, you would see that i did say "even before that"... and as a matter of fact, homosexuality was looked upon as the purest form of love in ancient japan, so once again... you are just rambling things that have no factual reinforcement...
And Japan had what influence on the development of words and their meanings in the English language, exactly?

How am I a feminism extremist? Because I'm aware that virginity was only really important in a time when effective birth control didn't exist to keep babies from being born out of wedlock? Because I'm aware that women were considered property and that having sex before marriage was damaging her father's property?

I wouldn't say that those kids are virgins at all. When someone has had anal sex with more people than I've even so much as kissed, they're not virgins.

you still make no sense! your just reaching for anything just to prove a point that isnt there! the definition of sexual intercourse stands as it is and has for many many years... the dictionary is not the constitution, it cant be "amended"... all you are trying to do is redefine sexual intercourse, which anyone could do with any word just to prove a point, but its still just as nonsensical... those women, regardless of customs at the time period, were still virgins! you are proving nothing...

That wasn't my definition, that was Ziior's.

For sure, but I'm not the one who has been saying that anal sex "doesn't count".

My point is, you may as well keep the definition of virgin as someone who has not had sexual intercourse, other definitions will be inconsistent and meaningless, or have far too many exceptions.

You do realize that "especially" does not mean "restricted to", correct?

In fact, the need for "especially" as a modifier suggests that there are other forms of contact that would apply...

the anus is not genitalia... think before you attempt to point out loopholes, because oftentimes they dont exist...

I believe sodomy counts as sexual intercourse, and in keeping with that definition, they are not virgins.

Not according to Ziior.

It's either penis-in-vagina or no go.

the dictionary is not the constitution, it cant be "amended

Actually, the dictionary is much more easily altered than the constitution. It just takes a change in usage.

A dictionary is descriptive, not prescriptive.

the anus is not genitalia... think before you attempt to point out loopholes, because oftentimes they dont exist...

No, but the penis is. It didn't say that everything involved had to be genitalia. It simply said "genital contact."

Let's look at a medical dictionary, shall we?

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/sexual+intercourse
sexual intercourse
n.
1. Coitus between humans.
2. Sexual union between humans involving genital contact other than vaginal penetration by the penis.

Yeah. I've wondered whether it would work through office walls.


Also, there's been one "love-egg" in the same catalogue that'd somehow wirelessly connect to your mobile phone and vibrate whenever a pre-defined number would call your phone. Highly intriguing.
They have ones that run through the internet... you plug the thing into a usb and someone controls it from anywhere on the planet.

Because I'm aware that women were considered property and that having sex before marriage was damaging her father's property?
It wasn't as simple as that. A woman who had sex outside of marriage would also have damaged her own life immensely. Especially if she were in the upper classes, and therefore was too stupid to make a living for or even govern herself.

you still make no sense! your just reaching for anything just to prove a point that isnt there! the definition of sexual intercourse stands as it is and has for many many years... the dictionary is not the constitution, it cant be "amended"
What on Earth are you talking about? They constantly add words to the dictionary, a while ago they added "giggy" and "D'oh"; Americans totally revamped the spelling of a number of words on a whim (color vs colour, honor vs honour, center vs centre et c) and definitions of words change constantly. Dictionaries aren't written in stone because language constantly evolves, as society evolves words should change to agree with the changes in society when necessary or else the words are likely to fall out of use as more accurate words take their place.
Of course there's still the question of whether the concept of virginity is important anymore.

all you are trying to do is redefine sexual intercourse, which anyone could do with any word just to prove a point, but its still just as nonsensical...
Not really. Here marriage was changed to encompass same sex couples as well as opposite sexed ones relatively recently. The definition of words change. And as pointed out, esp. penis in vagina does not mean exclusively penis in vagina.

those women, regardless of customs at the time period, were still virgins! you are proving nothing...
I would hardly say that having a penis in your bum leaves you a virgin. I feel that your definition is flawed.

My point is, you may as well keep the definition of virgin as someone who has not had sexual intercourse, other definitions will be inconsistent and meaningless, or have far too many exceptions.
Yes, but does the concept of virginity itself have any meaning anymore?

Yes, but does the concept of virginity itself have any meaning anymore?

What do you mean? As in does it have any value, or does it literally have any actual meaning? I'm concerned with the latter, and only if you keep the definition of not having sexual intercourse, can it retain any actual meaning.

the anus is not genitalia... think before you attempt to point out loopholes, because oftentimes they dont exist...
So lesbians can be non-virgins!

I'm not sure what the term for it is, but it's possible to do some sort of rubbing... I probably shouldn't go into detail with this, but it's genitalia in contact with another set of genitalia.

What do you mean? As in does it have any value, or does it literally have any actual meaning? I'm concerned with the latter, and only if you keep the definition of not having sexual intercourse, can it retain any actual meaning.
But if men can't have sexual intercourse with other men or women can't have sexual intercourse with other women then a significant portion of the population remains virgins no matter how many sexual partners they have.
But I was more referring to whether it has any value (or whether it really deserves any meaning anymore). We have reliable birth and disease control so some of the major negative effects of having sex before marriage are removed, does it matter if someone has had sex with anyone, many people, nobody? As long as they're not stupid about it, it shouldn't matter.

It wasn't as simple as that. A woman who had sex outside of marriage would also have damaged her own life immensely. Especially if she were in the upper classes, and therefore was too stupid to make a living for or even govern herself.
Actually, I thought that in the upper classes they could just hide the pregnancy by going on a trip and coming back with a baby brother or sister.

But if men can't have sexual intercourse with other men or women can't have sexual intercourse with other women then a significant portion of the population remains virgins no matter how many sexual partners they have.

Well again, I define sodomy as sexual intercourse, so gay men can be non virgins, but lesbians technically can't (again assuming they don't also engage in heterosexual sex).


But I was more referring to whether it has any value (or whether it really deserves any meaning anymore). We have reliable birth and disease control so some of the major negative effects of having sex before marriage are removed, does it matter if someone has had sex with anyone, many people, nobody?

If someone is a virgin, it could reflect on the kind of person they are.

Well again, I define sodomy as sexual intercourse, so gay men can be non virgins, but lesbians technically can't (again assuming they don't also engage in heterosexual sex).


So, some girl who has two minutes of fumbling with a guy with a four-inch prick isn't a virgin, but her friend who took that girls hand up her, as far as the elbow... is?


If someone is a virgin, it could reflect on the kind of person they are.

Yes, because rape victims are evil sluts, right?

So, some girl who has two minutes of fumbling with a guy with a four-inch prick isn't a virgin, but her friend who took that girls hand up her, as far as the elbow... is?


Well, if you want the definition of virgin to be consistent and with no exceptions, then yes.


Yes, because rape victims are evil sluts, right?

Huh? I was talking about if someone is a virgin and is 30, it reflects on their confidence with women perhaps, or possibly their sex appeal etc...

Well again, I define sodomy as sexual intercourse, so gay men can be non virgins, but lesbians technically can't (again assuming they don't also engage in heterosexual sex).
Look up tribbing if you're you know, old enough to learn about these things... there's a wikipedia page on it, but I'm not sure what we're allowed to post on here. Going by the genital contact definition of intercourse, it would fit.

But then again, genital contact doesn't necessarily exclude oral-genital contact, does it?

If someone is a virgin, it could reflect on the kind of person they are.
I can't think of too many positive adjectives that come to mind when a person hasn't had sex past a certain age unless they've just been unlucky when it comes to relationships or extremely patient.

Look up tribbing if you're you know, old enough to learn about these things... there's a wikipedia page on it, but I'm not sure what we're allowed to post on here. Going by the genital contact definition of intercourse, it would fit.

But then again, genital contact doesn't necessarily exclude oral-genital contact, does it?


I know what it is, but Wikipedia defines it as masturbation and also non-penetrative sex.


I can't think of too many positive adjectives that come to mind when a person hasn't had sex past a certain age unless they've just been unlucky when it comes to relationships or extremely patient.

There you go then, you can derive something from it, so it's not a completely irrelevant term.

Well, if you want the definition of virgin to be consistent and with no exceptions, then yes.


It's not my deifinition. Any definition that allows for a guy to put his hand or tongue (or foot? whatever) into a girl, but not his penis... and bases a definition of 'purity' on ONLY contact with that one instrument, is nonsensical.

Similarly, any definition that says a man is no longer a virgin once he's been penetrated in the anus, but lets him swallow bucketloads, or take an arm in his back passage without comment, is equally worthy of ridicule.


Huh? I was talking about if someone is a virgin and is 30, it reflects on their confidence with women perhaps, or possibly their sex appeal etc...

Or lack of opportunity, or sexual preference, or environmental factors... etc.

If you think a person being a virgin tells you ANYTHING about that person, except whether or not they've met YOUR peculiar standards of sexual competence, you're sadly mistaken.

I know what it is, but Wikipedia defines it as masturbation and also non-penetrative sex.
So? The earlier definition of intercourse didn't say anything about penetration, just genital contact.

There you go then, you can derive something from it, so it's not a completely irrelevant term.
Not really. I mean, maybe someone's waiting for someone special before they have sex (which is perfectly reasonable) and they find someone and they're almost ready to do this and then the relationship ends before it can happen, maybe this happens a number of times, maybe someone gets into a car accident and is in a body cast and rehabilitation for a couple of years in their late teens and early 20s. Maybe they had cancer and were occuped fighting it off around this time and not really going off and finding a partner. Maybe they're gay and live in a place where they can't be open about this and can't afford to get to a place that does for a while into adulthood. Maybe they did a lot of traveling and spent a lot of time doing something other than being in relationships or had a series of relationships that didn't last long enough for sex to occur...

Then again maybe they are terrible when it comes to dating and have never even had a date. Maybe they're religious and "saving" themselves. Maybe they're a total nutjob...

There are lots of reasons a person might not have had sex... it doesn't really tell me much about them except that they haven't.

It's not my deifinition. Any definition that allows for a guy to put his hand or tongue (or foot? whatever) into a girl, but not his penis... and bases a definition of 'purity' on ONLY contact with that one instrument, is nonsensical.


It's nonsensical only if you equate purity with virginity, I'm not doing that.


Similarly, any definition that says a man is no longer a virgin once he's been penetrated in the anus, but lets him swallow bucketloads, or take an arm in his back passage without comment, is equally worthy of ridicule.


But any broader definition will mean that having your anus checked for tumours means your not a virgin for instance, and means there has to be so many exceptions that it renders the term meaningless.


Or lack of opportunity, or sexual preference, or environmental factors... etc.


We usually know these factors as well however. If you knew a straight man living in a developed country who's not religious, and who is a virgin but over 30, can you honestly say that that doesn't tell you anything about that man, seriously?

Here's my suggestion:

You count as having lost your virginity if you have engaged in an activity you think of as sex.

We usually know these factors as well however. If you knew a straight man living in a developed country who's not religious, and who is a virgin but over 30, can you honestly say that that doesn't tell you anything about that man, seriously?
He might be picky. He might have some kinks and he hasn't found someone to fulfill them. He might have had bad luck with women. He might be waiting for the right one. He might generally want to have a serious commitment before getting it on. He might not feel ready for sex. He might have a hormonal imbalance. He might also be hideous or socially awkward or live with his parents (or all of the above). He might be painfully shy. There are still a lot of reasons.

So? The earlier definition of intercourse didn't say anything about penetration, just genital contact.


If that's the case, then I guess lesbians can have sex too, there you go, problem solved.


Not really. I mean, maybe someone's waiting for someone special before they have sex (which is perfectly reasonable) and they find someone and they're almost ready to do this and then the relationship ends before it can happen, maybe this happens a number of times, maybe someone gets into a car accident and is in a body cast and rehabilitation for a couple of years in their late teens and early 20s. Maybe they had cancer and were occuped fighting it off around this time and not really going off and finding a partner. Maybe they're gay and live in a place where they can't be open about this and can't afford to get to a place that does for a while into adulthood. Maybe they did a lot of traveling and spent a lot of time doing something other than being in relationships or had a series of relationships that didn't last long enough for sex to occur...

Then again maybe they are terrible when it comes to dating and have never even had a date. Maybe they're religious and "saving" themselves. Maybe they're a total nutjob...

There are lots of reasons a person might not have had sex... it doesn't really tell me much about them except that they haven't.

Yes, but if you already know other factors as well, you limit the number of possibilities. For instance, if you know the person is not disabled waste down, straight, living in a developed country etc..., then the chances that certain incidents have prevented him from being capable of having sex for almost half of his life become extremely unlikely.

He might be picky. He might have some kinks and he hasn't found someone to fulfill them. He might have had bad luck with women. He might be waiting for the right one. He might generally want to have a serious commitment before getting it on. He might not feel ready for sex. He might have a hormonal imbalance. He might also be hideous or socially awkward or live with his parents (or all of the above). He might be painfully shy. There are still a lot of reasons.

He might be an alien from the planet Krypton, whose physical strength would crush any woman he tried to sleep with....

We usually know these factors as well however. If you knew a straight man living in a developed country who's not religious, and who is a virgin but over 30, can you honestly say that that doesn't tell you anything about that man, seriously?
It tells me he's a virgin.

It's nonsensical only if you equate purity with virginity, I'm not doing that.


Nonsense. It's nonsensical if you consider 'virginity' to be something that is defined by those arbitrary terms. For want of a better phrase - it's self-ridiculing.


But any broader definition will mean that having your anus checked for tumours means your not a virgin for instance, and means there has to be so many exceptions that it renders the term meaningless.


In some cultures, the failure of the hymen to rupture bloodily was 'evidence' that a girl was not 'a virgin'. It doesn't matter that digital manipulation could cause the hymen to be less likely to rupture... or that not all hymens are equally susceptible to that kind of critical failure. Or that running or horseback riding could alter the likelihood, or a hundred other factors.

You are right - the term IS meaningless.


We usually know these factors as well however. If you knew a straight man living in a developed country who's not religious, and who is a virgin but over 30, can you honestly say that that doesn't tell you anything about that man, seriously?

What does it tell you?

The ONLY thing it tells you, is that he hasn't engaged in any form of sexual activity YOU consider would count.

Nonsense. It's nonsensical if you consider 'virginity' to be something that is defined by those arbitrary terms. For want of a better phrase - it's self-ridiculing.


Every single word in the world is defined by arbitrary terms.


In some cultures, the failure of the hymen to rupture bloodily was 'evidence' that a girl was not 'a virgin'. It doesn't matter that digital manipulation could cause the hymen to be less likely to rupture... or that not all hymens are equally susceptible to that kind of critical failure. Or that running or horseback riding could alter the likelihood, or a hundred other factors.


What the hell does that have to do with anything?


You are right - the term IS meaningless.


If you make it so broad that the meaning is inconsistent. If you specifically leave it at "someone who has not had sexual intercourse", then that has a specific meaning.


What does it tell you?

The ONLY thing it tells you, is that he hasn't engaged in any form of sexual activity YOU consider would count.

It could tell me lots of things, but if he's straight and has no religious or cultural views towards sex, it tells me that he's a bit abnormal, or just bad with women.

It could tell me lots of things, but if he's straight and has no religious or cultural views towards sex, it tells me that he's a bit abnormal, or just bad with women.
OR maybe he just hasn't had sex.

It could tell me lots of things, but if he's straight and has no religious or cultural views towards sex, it tells me that he's a bit abnormal, or just bad with women.
Only if you make these sorts of assumptions.

Only if you make these sorts of assumptions.

They're not assumptions, their conclusions.

OR maybe he just hasn't had sex.

That's not an OR, that's an AND.

They're not assumptions, their conclusions.
Conclusions based on assumptions.

I mean, there's an average age to lose one's virginity, but that doesn't mean that someone who deviates from this average is abnormal. Maybe he wants to wait until he's married for his own non-religious reasons. Maybe he doesn't trust birth control. Maybe he hasn't met someone he thinks is right for him. Maybe he gets off in other ways... who knows, maybe he has long relationships where his girlfriends have lots of orgasms and he has lots of orgasms but they don't have sex.

Conclusions based on assumptions.

I mean, there's an average age to lose one's virginity, but that doesn't mean that someone who deviates from this average is abnormal. Maybe he wants to wait until he's married for his own non-religious reasons.

That's what I call abnormal.


Maybe he doesn't trust birth control.

That too.


Maybe he hasn't met someone he thinks is right for him.

He's 30, he's had plenty of time, so that too.


Maybe he gets off in other ways...

That too (assuming he's straight).


who knows, maybe he has long relationships where his girlfriends have lots of orgasms and he has lots of orgasms but they don't have sex.

That too.

16 at my now-ex girlfriend's, on her 16th.

Every single word in the world is defined by arbitrary terms.


Babyshit.

Scientific terms, legal terms, medical terms... terms derived from those terms. Terms defined based around those terms. Nouns based on descriptions. Nouns based on derivations or other definitions...

A large part of our language is exactly NOT defined by arbitrary terms. And that's just one language.

The term 'virgin' has pretensions... it pretends to be a moral judgment - which is of course rubbish. It pretends to me a medical judgment, which is similarly flawed.

It is arbitrary because it is deliberately vague.


What the hell does that have to do with anything?


The simple fact that 'virginity' has always been meaningless.

Even in the specific scenario of male-to-female genital penetration, it hasn't ever been reliable or absolute.


If you make it so broad that the meaning is inconsistent. If you specifically leave it at "someone who has not had sexual intercourse", then that has a specific meaning.


Really? What is 'sexual intercourse'?


It could tell me lots of things, but if he's straight and has no religious or cultural views towards sex, it tells me that he's a bit abnormal, or just bad with women.

Abnormal is a curious word to use. Every body is sexually abnormal - because sexual normality is an average, and no one is an average.

That's not an OR, that's an AND.

Because you say so?

Some people just don't have sex... until they do. IF they do.

That's what I call abnormal.
But you're attaching negative judgments along with your "deviation from what's normal" sort of definition (i.e. your suggestion that he's inept with women).

He's 30, he's had plenty of time, so that too.
I wouldn't say that he's had plenty of time.

I suspect that this comes down to either virginity being a silly thing to care about or everyone defines for themselves when their virginity is lost.

/thread

Babyshit.

Scientific terms, legal terms, medical terms... terms derived from those terms. Terms defined based around those terms. Nouns based on descriptions. Nouns based on derivations or other definitions...

A large part of our language is exactly NOT defined by arbitrary terms. And that's just one language.

I think you and I have a different definition of arbitrary.


The term 'virgin' has pretensions... it pretends to be a moral judgment - which is of course rubbish.

I don't read it as a moral judgement in the least.


It pretends to me a medical judgment, which is similarly flawed.


Define medical judgement, but I don't think I see it as that either.


It is arbitrary because it is deliberately vague.


Only if you choose to attach a vague meaning to it.


The simple fact that 'virginity' has always been meaningless.


Just because it's hard for one person to know for sure that another person is a virgin, does not in the least mean that the term virgin itself does not have a meaning.


Even in the specific scenario of male-to-female genital penetration, it hasn't ever been reliable or absolute.


It is absolute, there can be no exceptions to that.


Really? What is 'sexual intercourse'?


Well, I define it as penetration of vagina, or anus, with genitalia, and possibly also the rubbing of genitalia together, but I'm not sure about that one.


Abnormal is a curious word to use. Every body is sexually abnormal - because sexual normality is an average, and no one is an average.

If no one is average, then what you've described as average, is not actually average.

Absolutely. The question should be, "when did you first have good sex?", that's something to celebrate.

I can give a date on that one. October 17, 2000

June 13, 2003. :p

But you're attaching negative judgments along with your "deviation from what's normal" sort of definition (i.e. your suggestion that he's inept with women).


Says who? I didn't say being abnormal was nescecerally a bad thing.

16 at my now-ex girlfriend's, on her 16th.

That's quite a birthday present.

Says who? I didn't say being abnormal was nescecerally a bad thing.
Then what does it matter if a person is abnormal? How does being abnormal tell you anything about a person?

Then what does it matter if a person is abnormal? How does being abnormal tell you anything about a person?

How does anything tell anyone about anything?

How does anything tell anyone about anything?
You claimed that someone being a virgin at 30 told you about this person. I contended that it doesn't tell me anything other than they haven't had sex. You then said that it means that they're either abnormal or bad with whatever gender they're trying to get it on with. We have just established that the former doesn't really tell me anything about the person, especially since non-virgins can be considered "abnormal". Although non-virgins can also be bad with whatever gender they are trying to get it on with as well.

So the fact that a person is a virgin at 30 doesn't tell me anything about them at all does it?

But any broader definition will mean that having your anus checked for tumours means your not a virgin for instance, and means there has to be so many exceptions that it renders the term meaningless.No, because, as was said...

Vojvodina-Nihon: "Here's my suggestion:

You count as having lost your virginity if you have engaged in an activity you think of as sex."

It is the activity, not the action, that must be sexual.

How does being abnormal tell you anything about a person?

by definition?

You claimed that someone being a virgin at 30 told you about this person. I contended that it doesn't tell me anything other than they haven't had sex. You then said that it means that they're either abnormal or bad with whatever gender they're trying to get it on with. We have just established that the former doesn't really tell me anything about the person.


Being abnormal is telling you something about him. Just because you don't think that's a bad thing, doesn't mean it's meaningless, just not bad.

No, because, as was said...

Vojvodina-Nihon: "Here's my suggestion:

You count as having lost your virginity if you have engaged in an activity you think of as sex."

It is the activity, not the action, that must be sexual.

But then the definition of virginity will be completely subjective, which makes it completely meaningless.

But then the definition of virginity will be completely subjective, which makes it completely meaningless.Why would it be meaningless?

That's quite a birthday present.
Doubt it, we were both virgins. It wasn't that good for me and was doubtless crap for her.

I was 21, never been interested before then.

You're assuming virginity already has some meaning. To most people, it already is fairly meaningless.

Or about as meaningful as "the first time I drove a car."

Being abnormal is telling you something about him. Just because you don't think that's a bad thing, doesn't mean it's meaningless, just not bad.
But you haven't told me what being abnormal tells me about him. I mean, everyone is abnormal in some way... so does it mean that being a virgin at 30 is being like everyone else?

In the far distant future, if ever.

I honestly don't care. The idea of people sticking their parts into each other still maintains a strong "eeewww" factor for me. As I'm nearly 21, I strongly suspect I won't grow out of it. I have felt "attracted" to both men and women, but "doing the deed" just don't appeal with either.

I was 21 at the time I finally met someone I could stand enough to 'do the deed' with. I only had 2 other partners since.

Why would it be meaningless?

Because the person would have to qualify what he actually means by virginity when he says it, I cannot derive any meaning from the term alone.

by definition?
Apart from "not normal".

Because the person would have to qualify what he actually means by virginity when he says it, I cannot derive any meaning from the term alone.

And this is a problem...why?

But you haven't told me what being abnormal tells me about him. I mean, everyone is abnormal in some way... so does it mean that being a virgin at 30 is being like everyone else?

How about this then, I'd say he's more abnormal than your average person, who may also be abnormal in some ways.

And this is a problem...why?

Because the term becomes useless.

You're assuming virginity already has some meaning. To most people, it already is fairly meaningless.

Or about as meaningful as "the first time I drove a car."

I remember the first time I drove a car... was so scary, and so fun. It seemed dangerous, yet extraordinary. It was such a feeling of power to be able to just touch a pedal and accelerate everyone in the vehicle to whatever speed I so desired. Their lives were in my hands - it was amazing.

Why would it be meaningless?

because someone who decided they thought of collating copies as sex would have lost their virginity doing so. it's not exactly meaningless, but it means that we'd have a hard time discussing the subject in groups larger than 2.

How about this then, I'd say he's more abnormal than your average person, who may also be abnormal in some ways.
Not really. There are non-virgins or people who lost their virginity in a "normal" time frame rather, who are quite possibly weirder than the hypothetical guy who is waiting for the right girl at 30.

And really, all I have learned about the person is that they have not had sex and are 30 years old.

Because the term becomes useless.

Not really. Not any more than any other subjectively defined term.

Language tends to work that way. Even a word with a commonly understood denotation can have different connotations between different people.

"Virgin" then becomes "one who has not engaged in an action they feel qualifies as a sex act," as opposed to the more narrow definition, "one who hasn't taken rod A in slot B." There's wiggle room (hehe) in what acts they have and haven't done, but you could make that argument with many other definitions we take for granted.

I remember the first time I drove a car... was so scary, and so fun. It seemed dangerous, yet extraordinary. It was such a feeling of power to be able to just touch a pedal and accelerate everyone in the vehicle to whatever speed I so desired. Their lives were in my hands - it was amazing.

My first time driving a car was kind of lame. The driving instructor was cool enough, but it was just so much more...mundane than I'd expected. It wasn't really until I got my Civic that I really got to enjoy driving. Which is amusing, considering it's a fucking Civic. And burgundy. ...Fine...plum.

Though I can safely say, driving a car for the first time was still more memorable than the first time I got laid.

Not really. There are non-virgins or people who lost their virginity in a "normal" time frame rather, who are quite possibly weirder than the hypothetical guy who is waiting for the right girl at 30.


So? It still tells me, at least, that they are more abnormal than most people.


And really, all I have learned about the person is that they have not had sex and are 30 years old.

And that they are either abnormal, or inept with women, and realistically, the latter being a strong possibility.