NationStates Jolt Archive

Is it just me or are Atheists always trying to push their "Religon" on other people?
Alot of times on these boards I will say something that shows my religious beliefs and then a ton of people start trying to convince me my views are wrong.

And Whats with people sounding off that they are atheist for no reason?
A recent thread asked people whether they lieing was a sin.
Now, sin is a commonly accepeted word for a bad thing.
But many atheists decide to post saying they couldn't answer the question because they didn't think it exist or they didn't believe in it.
Those post added no value to the thread. Did they really need to toot their own horn and announce their beliefs?

Those post added no value to the thread. Did they really need to toot their own horn and announce their beliefs?

...

Wow...

This is just so ironic I don't know what to say...

It's just you.

I don't give a shit what you believe. I whip out my 'atheist' cap only when one of 'you' starts in with the religious bullshit.

I wouldn't read too much into it, atheists have a great deal of representation here, and there are all kinds of people on NSG, just like everywhere else.

It isn't just atheists that don't believe in sin, which is generally associated with either divine influence or metaphor, btw.

It's just you.

I don't give a shit what you believe. I whip out my 'atheist' cap only when one of 'you' starts in with the religious bullshit.

Usually I try to be "Whatever, believe what you want" until they start using religion as an argument for something, and then I switch to "I'm an athiest, this is bullshit." mode.

It isn't necessarily just you, but I'd suggest looking at the huge fucking plank in the eyes of the collective christian community (alliteration!) before picking at the comparitively small splinter in the eye of the atheist community that (somehow) has a majority here.

As an ignostic, I think the lot of you are wasting your time of course, but this thread will top 3 bajillion pages with theists shouting "Does too" and Atheists shouting "Does not".

if you see an atheist with a religion they're a buddist and they aren't pushing it on you. otherwise, feel free to mash faces.

When several major organized religions think I'm a disgusting sinner who'll burn forever for the worst and stupidest of reasons, I think I have the right to rant a little, thanks.

...

Wow...

This is just so ironic I don't know what to say...

wheres the irony?

Is it just me or are Atheists always trying to push their "Religon" on other people?
Alot of times on these boards I will say something that shows my religious beliefs and then a ton of people start trying to convince me my views are wrong.

Welcome to NSG. Do not worry about those misquided fools. Just ignore them for if you do not do so, they will eat you up alive. Do not worry. Athiests will get their just desserts in hell.

And Whats with people sounding off that they are atheist for no reason?

It is how they get off at night because they cannot see the light they are rejecting.

A recent thread asked people whether they lieing was a sin.
Now, sin is a commonly accepeted word for a bad thing.
But many atheists decide to post saying they couldn't answer the question because they didn't think it exist or they didn't believe in it.
Those post added no value to the thread. Did they really need to toot their own horn and announce their beliefs?

No and neither should we as Christians, toot our own horn either. Our job is to spread the Truth but not force it on others.

Lots of people are pushy, and they're everywhere. Some are atheists, some are vegetarians, some are SUV-drivers, some are Hare Krishnas, some are pro-Bush, some are racist, some are cat people, some are Democrats, whatever.

If somebody espousing your views was being pushy to other people, would you be just as mad?

wheres the irony?

That post was announcing your beliefs, tooting your own horn, and added nothing to these forums.

wheres the irony?

You just tripled it. It's like a...mille feuille of irony.

Lots of people are pushy, and they're everywhere. Some are atheists, some are vegetarians, some are SUV-drivers, some are Hare Krishnas, some are pro-Bush, some are racist, some are cat people, some are Democrats, whatever.

If somebody espousing your views was being pushy to other people, would you be just as mad?

What are you trying to say? That you hate cats?

it's a Religon now when the fuck that happen :confused:

Welcome to NSG. Do not worry about those misquided fools. Just ignore them for if you do not do so, they will eat you up alive. Do not worry. Athiests will get their just desserts in hell.


It is how they get off at night because they cannot see the light they are rejecting.Give me a fucking break.

At least atheists don't wander around telling religious folks of the horrible things they are going to endure because of their beliefs.

Give me a Christian like Smunkee, over a self-righteous twat like you ANY day.

Welcome to NSG. Do not worry about those misquided fools. Just ignore them for if you do not do so, they will eat you up alive. Do not worry. Athiests will get their just desserts in hell.

It is how they get off at night because they cannot see the light they are rejecting.

No and neither should we as Christians, toot our own horn either. Our job is to spread the Truth but not force it on others.

Gee. Lessee just how un-Christian we can be in one post, eh, Corny?

1. Judging for God. - That's one automatic getting Judged too.

2. Making a show of personal religiosity as a point for bragging - that's also a sin. Remember the Pharisees?

3. Attacking rather than turning the other cheek

That's three in one! Corny, find me in hell and we can roast marshmallows together or something, kay?

Wait wait wait wait wait. After hundreds of years of missionaries and forced conversions and holy wars and 'revival' meetings and putting things like 'In God We Trust' on money, 'Under God' in the pledge, trying to put the Ten Commandments in court houses, legislating 'sins', people going door to fucking door, faith being a litmus test for office, bullshit like this from Bush I-
No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

...after all of that shit, you're going to try and tell me that it's the atheists that are pushy?

Are you fucking shitting me?

Lots of people are pushy, and they're everywhere. Some are atheists, some are vegetarians, some are SUV-drivers, some are Hare Krishnas, some are pro-Bush, some are racist, some are cat people, some are Democrats, whatever.

If somebody espousing your views was being pushy to other people, would you be just as mad?

yes
i believe beliefs are beliefs and no one has any right to attempt to change them


Corneliu
i hope you were being sarcastic
no one deserves eternal punishment in hell
if you are a good person, you go to heaven no matter your beliefs

Athiests will get their just desserts in hell.

Case in point.

Compared to the disgusting filth like this that is spewed daily by religious people, all the militancy of atheists is nothing. We don't maintain that people will be tortured for eternity because they don't believe in our theological doctrines.

Welcome to NSG. Do not worry about those misquided fools. Just ignore them for if you do not do so, they will eat you up alive. Do not worry. Athiests will get their just desserts in hell.
If heaven is filled with people who have your kind of attitude, you can fucking have it. I wouldn't worship a God who would bless someone with an attitude like yours.

Give me a fucking break.

At least atheists don't wander around telling religious folks of the horrible things they are going to endure because of their beliefs.

Give me a Christian like Smunkee, over a self-righteous twat like you ANY day.

or start wars with other Religons

or start wars with other Religons

I never started a war with other religions.

That post was announcing your beliefs, tooting your own horn, and added nothing to these forums.

I was announcing my beliefs because they were important to the discussion.
I was not tooting my own horn. I was looking for a discussion on this.
How is starting a discussion adding nothing?

Is it just me or are Atheists always trying to push their "Religon" on other people?
Alot of times on these boards I will say something that shows my religious beliefs and then a ton of people start trying to convince me my views are wrong.

And Whats with people sounding off that they are atheist for no reason?
A recent thread asked people whether they lieing was a sin.
Now, sin is a commonly accepeted word for a bad thing.
But many atheists decide to post saying they couldn't answer the question because they didn't think it exist or they didn't believe in it.
Those post added no value to the thread. Did they really need to toot their own horn and announce their beliefs?

You have a good point - so many atheists complain about others pushing religion on them, yet whenever someone so much as mentions their religion on here, the atheists seem to have a sudden desire to do exactly what they were complaining about (pushing beliefs on others) with random irrelevant shouts of "God doesn't exist", "You're a moron for believing in God", etc etc etc

What are you trying to say? That you hate cats?

Well, I'm a dog person, but that's beside the point. :)

Give me a fucking break.

At least atheists don't wander around telling religious folks of the horrible things they are going to endure because of their beliefs.

Give me a Christian like Smunkee, over a self-righteous twat like you ANY day.

It irritates me even more those who believe that those who never even heard of Christ are going to hell. Tough luck for them not knowing any better I guess. :mad:


And I'm not real familiar with atheists starting wars with believers. Religions manage to do that with each other just fine though.

I never started a war with other religions.

What--you want a cookie for that or something? :rolleyes:

You have a good point - so many atheists complain about others pushing religion on them, yet whenever someone so much as mentions their religion on here, the atheists seem to have a sudden desire to do exactly what they were complaining about (pushing beliefs on others) with random irrelevant shouts of "God doesn't exist", "You're a moron for believing in God", etc etc etc

Here here.

I've always noticed this attitude coming from Christians rather than atheists...

Athiests will get their just desserts in hell.

Such as this attitude.

Case in point.

Compared to the disgusting filth like this that is spewed daily by religious people, all the militancy of atheists is nothing. We don't maintain that people will be tortured for eternity because they don't believe in our theological doctrines.

Quoted for the motherfucking truth.

Wait wait wait wait wait. After hundreds of years of missionaries and forced conversions and holy wars and 'revival' meetings and putting things like 'In God We Trust' on money, 'Under God' in the pledge, trying to put the Ten Commandments in court houses, legislating 'sins', people going door to fucking door, faith being a litmus test for office, bullshit like this from Bush I-


...after all of that shit, you're going to try and tell me that it's the atheists that are pushy?

Are you fucking shitting me?

Oooh, well put. *applause* :cool:

It irritates me even more those who believe that those who never even heard of Christ are going to hell. Tough luck for them I guess. :mad:

Yeah, hilarious...so my people who lived here long before they heard of Christ are suffering in eternal torment, while the ones who were massacred, lied to and cheated in the name of religion and 'civilisation' had it MUCH better:confused:

Atheists have no religion, unless they follow a religion that is compatible with non-theism.

I was about to bitch out the OP, then I read his reply to Corny. Just for that you get a cookie. Corneliu can spend eternity smugly waiting for magic-sky faery love.

You have a good point - so many atheists complain about others pushing religion on them, yet whenever someone so much as mentions their religion on here, the atheists seem to have a sudden desire to do exactly what they were complaining about (pushing beliefs on others) with random irrelevant shouts of "God doesn't exist", "You're a moron for believing in God", etc etc etc

When people bring up their religion in a debate, and try to substitute faith for facts, they should expect the much deserved ridicule.

Yeah, hilarious...so my people who lived here long before they heard of Christ are suffering in eternal torment, while the ones who were massacred, lied to and cheated in the name of religion and 'civilisation' had it MUCH better:confused:

I guess the all-loving God just inherently hates some people, you know?

http://www.trevoroldak.com/uploads/atheists.jpg
Yeah, we're the fucking problem...

Give me a fucking break.

At least atheists don't wander around telling religious folks of the horrible things they are going to endure because of their beliefs.

Funny. Could have sworn I'd seem phrases like "you're not going to paradise, you're just going to rot away"

I think all of us atheists here should get together and have a circle-jerk.

When people bring up their religion in a debate, and try to substitute faith for facts, they should expect the much deserved ridicule.

Substitute something for facts? That's exactly atheists do - they do not know whether something exists, so they make up a fact that because they can't see it, it doesn't exist. Seriously unscientific and if scientists thought that way, we'd have hardly moved forward at all.

EDIT: aS EVIDENCED BELOW:

Well, that's not very nice either. Accurate, but unpleasant to think about.

When people bring up their religion in a debate, and try to substitute faith for facts, they should expect the much deserved ridicule.

if its a debate not about faith than yes they do deserve ridicule


And about the Non- Believers going to hell
not many people believe that
well, i'm not sure
judging from my community and my priest
it seems that most Christians believe being a good person spares you from hell

Funny. Could have sworn I'd seem phrases like "you're not going to paradise, you're just going to rot away"
Compared to the sadistic, eternal torment that hell is described as, it's hardly terrible.

Funny. Could have sworn I'd seem phrases like "you're not going to paradise, you're just going to rot away"

Well, that's not very nice either. Accurate, but unpleasant to think about.

All knees will bend toward a lack-of-god!

Your children will worship our lack-of-god!

Each day, the atheist empire grows larger, while your god's wang grows smaller. Smaller, smaller, until one day he will not be potent, and revert into a womb-like state of nothingness!

In the end, the god-believers will buzz for all eternity in a state of pure non-existence!

BUAH HA HA HA HA!

All knees will bend toward a lack-of-god!

Your children will worship our lack-of-god!

Each day, the atheist empire grows larger, while your god's wang grows smaller. Smaller, smaller, until one day he will not be potent, and revert into a womb-like state of nothingness!

In the end, the god-believers will buzz for all eternity in a state of pure non-existence!

BUAH HA HA HA HA!

All hail great Epop of the Roman-Atheist Un-Church!

Funny. Could have sworn I'd seem phrases like "you're not going to paradise, you're just going to rot away"

Hmmm. "You're going to rot away" versus "you're going to burn in hell for all eternity." Yeah, those are exactly as bad as each other. :rolleyes:

When people bring up their religion in a debate, and try to substitute faith for facts, they should expect the much deserved ridicule.

if its a debate not about faith than yes they do deserve ridicule


And about the Non- Believers going to hell
not many people believe that
well, i'm not sure
judging from my community and my priest
it seems that most Christians believe being a good person spares you from hell

Then they need to read their bible more because it is stated that good deeds alone does not get one into heaven but only faith through the Savior.

Funny. Could have sworn I'd seem phrases like "you're not going to paradise, you're just going to rot away"

Yes, there are douchebag atheists, just like there are douchebag Christians. Luckily, I am neither.

Funny. Could have sworn I'd seem phrases like "you're not going to paradise, you're just going to rot away"

Which is less dramatic and hostile then 'Haha, the magic sky faery is going to torture you forever cuz you said it doesn't exist.'

Funny. Could have sworn I'd seem phrases like "you're not going to paradise, you're just going to rot away"

I believe our body rotting away after death is going to definately happen. Burning in hell and being tortured for all eternity is much more questionable.

Then they need to read their bible more because it is stated that good deeds alone does not get one into heaven but only faith through the Savior.

Funny how you pick and choose the parts of the Bible you want to quote--nothing about "judge not, lest ye be judged" coming out of your electronic piehole tonight, eh Corny?

All knees will bend toward a lack-of-god!

Your children will worship our lack-of-god!

Each day, the atheist empire grows larger, while your god's wang grows smaller. Smaller, smaller, until one day he will not be potent, and revert into a womb-like state of nothingness!

In the end, the god-believers will buzz for all eternity in a state of pure non-existence!

BUAH HA HA HA HA!

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

I don't think they have a ton to worry about. And might I add that anti-semites have little to worry about as well...I had no idea there were so few of us left. 0.22%! Geez.

I read the title as "pussy atheists". :D

Then they need to read their bible more because it is stated that good deeds alone does not get one into heaven but only faith through the Savior.

So did Native Americans who lived in the era after the death of Christ -- let's say the Aztecs -- did they go to hell for not believing the savior? Ya know, even though Christianity hadn't even reached the continent yet?

Funny how you pick and choose the parts of the Bible you want to quote--nothing about "judge not, lest ye be judged" coming out of your electronic piehole tonight, eh Corny?

what you say is true but it is also my duty as a christian to help guide other christians along. So am I judging or am I merely lending a helping hand? I am just merely lending a helping hand.

Which is less dramatic and hostile then 'Haha, the magic sky faery is going to torture you forever cuz you said it doesn't exist.'

this is what I'm getting at

instead of being polite this person has to insult someones beliefs

Is it just me or are Atheists always trying to push their "Religon" on other people?
Alot of times on these boards I will say something that shows my religious beliefs and then a ton of people start trying to convince me my views are wrong.

And Whats with people sounding off that they are atheist for no reason?
A recent thread asked people whether they lieing was a sin.
Now, sin is a commonly accepeted word for a bad thing.
But many atheists decide to post saying they couldn't answer the question because they didn't think it exist or they didn't believe in it.
Those post added no value to the thread. Did they really need to toot their own horn and announce their beliefs?

I do not believe in religion of any form...I am a philosopher and evolution is a fact that you need to deal with...but that said...probably the only positive impact...and I do mean only positive impact that religion has made on the world is moral values...ive always wondered however if those values have always been instilled inside us...and that religion just voiced what we know to be wrong...or that belief and the structure of the aforementioned has moulded society...however we kick and scream against it...into the way we behave today

So did Native Americans who lived in the era after the death of Christ -- let's say the Aztecs -- did they go to hell for not believing the savior? Ya know, even though Christianity hadn't even reached the continent yet?

Probably.

http://www.trevoroldak.com/uploads/atheists.jpg
Yeah, we're the fucking problem...

Omg, I can't believe some people feel that way! That's just crazy.

Funny how you pick and choose the parts of the Bible you want to quote--nothing about "judge not, lest ye be judged" coming out of your electronic piehole tonight, eh Corny?

Well, considering that he managed to violate at least 4 different parts of scripture with his first post in this thread, I think Corny is the kind of Christian who doesn't actually care what the Bible says. He cares much more about how he can create an us and them dynamic.

Substitute something for facts? That's exactly atheists do - they do not know whether something exists, so they make up a fact that because they can't see it, it doesn't exist. Seriously unscientific and if scientists thought that way, we'd have hardly moved forward at all.

EDIT: aS EVIDENCED BELOW:

Well, that's not very nice either. Accurate, but unpleasant to think about.Get a grip, and try to follow along.

Imagine we are discussing...oh...homosexuality. While moral judments are inevitable, many religious folks choose to oppose homosexuality on religious grounds alone...as though faith is some sort of rock-solid, factual basis on which to make such a condemnation. You can't debate these kinds of beliefs. They just are. But they get tossed in as 'proof'. Of what? That you have an opinion on the matter? Well that's nice...don't expect me to give a shit just because yours is based on your particular version of scripture.

Debates ABOUT religion are entirely different. I am referring to other debates, where religion gets tossed in like it is in any way useful from a factual vantage.

I think all of us atheists here should get together and have a circle-jerk.

Is that like a daisy chain? ;)

so they make up a fact that because they can't see it, it doesn't exist.

I am God.

Do you believe me?

Omg, I can't believe some people feel that way! That's just crazy.

yes it is

Then they need to read their bible more because it is stated that good deeds alone does not get one into heaven but only faith through the Savior.

The Pope > you.

[QUI do not believe in religion of any form...I am a philosopher and evolution is a fact that you need to deal with


why do you assume i don't believe in Evolution?
I do
I agree with most science
the only science i don't agree with is that humans are causing global warming
I believe it is a cyclical thing
but that has nothing to do with my religon

Omg, I can't believe some people feel that way! That's just crazy.

It gets worse (http://www.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2007/05/04/investigator_finds_reasonable_grounds_for_claim_of_atheism_firing/)...
On another occasion, DeCoster brought up God in a conversation, and Cantwell responded by saying he was an atheist and didn't believe in God.

Cantwell told the investigator that DeCoster put his hand on his shoulder and told him: "I can't have someone like you here. We might need to part ways."
Yeah, we're the pushy ones...

Yeah, there's pushy people everywhere.

if you are a good person, you go to heaven no matter your beliefs
For Corn's particular brand of Christianity, there are no good people. We're all flawed and imperfect and we should all feel guilty and be begging for forgiveness at all times. The only thing that can save us from ourselves is the loophole of deity so benevolent that he bases exclusion from eternal torture on the acceptance or belief in one fact.

It is a misanthropic,cruel and cynical world-view, and it suits his personality nicely.

Get a grip, and try to follow along.

Imagine we are discussing...oh...homosexuality. While moral judments are inevitable, many religious folks choose to oppose homosexuality on religious grounds alone...as though faith is some sort of rock-solid, factual basis on which to make such a condemnation. You can't debate these kinds of beliefs. They just are. But they get tossed in as 'proof'. Of what? That you have an opinion on the matter? Well that's nice...don't expect me to give a shit just because yours is based on your particular version of scripture.

Debates ABOUT religion are entirely different. I am referring to other debates, where religion gets tossed in like it is in any way useful from a factual vantage.

Who are you talking to? I said that it wasn't nice to talk about people rotting away when they die, even if it's true. Why are you quoting me for this?

what you say is true but it is also my duty as a christian to help guide other christians along. So am I judging or am I merely lending a helping hand? I am just merely lending a helping hand.
You're judging. And you want to be careful about that--humility is a virtue. It also keeps you from looking like such an asshole when you inevitably get busted doing something you were preaching against.

The Pope > you.

And yet, I am not a Catholic so the Pope has zero authority over me. Only one person has authority over me and that is my Father in heaven. My earthly authorities include My parents and my fiance.

I am God.

Do you believe me?

I'm willing to believe you, but what do I get out of it?

You're judging.

I will let someone greater than you to decide that.

This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between posts. Please try again in 7 seconds.

Is that like a daisy chain? ;)

So few people know what that means, that I have to congratulate you:)

Is that like a daisy chain? ;)

Similar. What the hell, let's just have a huge orgy. Right here. In this thread. Believers don't get any action, just atheists.

So few people know what that means, that I have to congratulate you:)

Yay! :cool: I read Stephen Fry.

Who are you talking to? I said that it wasn't nice to talk about people rotting away when they die, even if it's true. Why are you quoting me for this?

What's not nice about it? If facts are unpleasant, are we supposed to ignore their existence? We're in a world of shit globally because too many people would rather hide from unpleasant and inconvenient facts than face them head on.

For Corn's particular brand of Christianity, there are no good people. We're all flawed and imperfect and we should all feel guilty and be begging for forgiveness at all times. The only thing that can save us from ourselves is the loophole of deity so benevolent that he bases exclusion from eternal torture on the acceptance or belief in one fact.

It is a misanthropic,cruel and cynical world-view, and it suits his personality nicely.

Is he Catholic? I hear Catholicism is like that.

Who are you talking to? I said that it wasn't nice to talk about people rotting away when they die, even if it's true. Why are you quoting me for this?

Huh? *goes back and checks post where Multiland is quoted*

Huh?

You can't debate these kinds of beliefs. They just are.


you realize that all beliefs just are?
No beliefs have proof
not any religions and not Atheism

I'm not condemning any beliefs
I'm condemning pushing them on people

The Pope > you.

Strawberries > The Pope.

Similar. What the hell, let's just have a huge orgy. Right here. In this thread. Believers don't get any action, just atheists.

Sweet! Where's Bumboat? Somebody get her in here. :fluffle:

this is what I'm getting at

instead of being polite this person has to insult someones beliefs

Honestly, you need to take a walk in someone else's shoes. Keep in mind that all of the atheists on this board live in countries in which they are a minority, and that many of those NSers have dealt with bullshit "religious" people like Corny who talk about God's Love and spread hate and fear here, and see people who are juist the same spreading a true evil across their homes and homelands.

Take, for example, the letter to the editor shown earlier in this thread. Is it any suprise that many Atheists become militant? Given that Atheists are disrespected, completely unrepresented in government in many countries, insulted publically, and consistantly lied about, is it any suprise that in a community like this one where Atheists have formed a strong core, they feel safe actually saying what they are?

Is he Catholic? I hear Catholicism is like that.
No. Based on what he's said here, he's probably an Evangelical, but I have no way of knowing that.

Most Catholics I've known are not like that. If he is Catholic, then I'm fairly certain he's going against the Pope.

If God exists and he is anywhere near as forgiving as many claim than we can all be as big of an asshat as we want in life and we will have our sins wiped clean when we meet him after death.

You can't debate these kinds of beliefs. They just are.


you realize that all beliefs just are?
No beliefs have proof
not any religions and not Atheism

im not condemning any beliefs
just pushing them on people

Yep!

What's not nice about it? If facts are unpleasant, are we supposed to ignore their existence? We're in a world of shit globally because too many people would rather hide from unpleasant and inconvenient facts than face them head on.

You know what else isn't nice? Shit.

And yet we all do it. Even the Pope.

Probably.

By any decent moral standard, such a sentiment is at least equivalent to support for Nazi genocide, and probably far, far worse.

When has atheism promulgated such transparently evil doctrines?

(Of course, it's always possible that Hell isn't so bad a place... I'm sure gay sex is notably absent from Christo-fundamentalist Heaven, for instance.)

You know what else isn't nice? Shit.

And yet we all do it. Even the Pope.

QFT!

I am God.

Do you believe me?

Obviously not. I don't believe you are God just because you told me so, and I don't believe God doesn't exist just because someone tells me so. Just because something can not be seen does not mean it isn't there - sure, it might not be, but just because you can't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

You know what else isn't nice? Shit.

And yet we all do it. Even the Pope.

XD.

Funny. Could have sworn I'd seem phrases like "you're not going to paradise, you're just going to rot away"

Well, that's not very nice either. Accurate, but unpleasant to think about.

Substitute something for facts? That's exactly atheists do - they do not know whether something exists, so they make up a fact that because they can't see it, it doesn't exist. Seriously unscientific and if scientists thought that way, we'd have hardly moved forward at all.

EDIT: aS EVIDENCED BELOW:

Well, that's not very nice either. Accurate, but unpleasant to think about.


Oh, I see the confusion...he was quoting ME, but it was time-warped, and then you quoted HIM. Geez! Okay.

Honestly, you need to take a walk in someone else's shoes. Keep in mind that all of the atheists on this board live in countries in which they are a minority, and that many of those NSers have dealt with bullshit "religious" people like Corny who talk about God's Love and spread hate and fear here, and see people who are juist the same spreading a true evil across their homes and homelands.

Take, for example, the letter to the editor shown earlier in this thread. Is it any suprise that many Atheists become militant? Given that Atheists are disrespected, completely unrepresented in government in many countries, insulted publically, and consistantly lied about, is it any suprise that in a community like this one where Atheists have formed a strong core, they feel safe actually saying what they are?


none of that lets someone degrade someones beliefs
I do not worship a magic fairy
i worship a god
i did not insult him
i do not see why i was insulted

I See jolt has failed to fix the fucking time warp.

XD.

Hee hee hee! :cool:

She said poop.

What are you trying to say? That you hate cats?

nobody can hate cats

http://www.alljunk.dk/pics/cute%20cat.jpg

What's not nice about it? If facts are unpleasant, are we supposed to ignore their existence? We're in a world of shit globally because too many people would rather hide from unpleasant and inconvenient facts than face them head on.

WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE AND ROT AWAY!!!!! DEAL WITH IT PEOPLE!!!!!

*nods*

Source (http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/10-myths-and-10-truths-about-atheism1/), because having to reword shit over an over again for these stupid ass arguments gets tiresome-
) Atheism is dogmatic.

Jews, Christians and Muslims claim that their scriptures are so prescient of humanity’s needs that they could only have been written under the direction of an omniscient deity. An atheist is simply a person who has considered this claim, read the books and found the claim to be ridiculous. One doesn’t have to take anything on faith, or be otherwise dogmatic, to reject unjustified religious beliefs. As the historian Stephen Henry Roberts (1901-71) once said: “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
...
6) Atheists are arrogant.

When scientists don’t know something — like why the universe came into being or how the first self-replicating molecules formed — they admit it. Pretending to know things one doesn’t know is a profound liability in science. And yet it is the life-blood of faith-based religion. One of the monumental ironies of religious discourse can be found in the frequency with which people of faith praise themselves for their humility, while claiming to know facts about cosmology, chemistry and biology that no scientist knows. When considering questions about the nature of the cosmos and our place within it, atheists tend to draw their opinions from science. This isn’t arrogance; it is intellectual honesty.

QFT!

Does that mean "shut the fuck up" from a latin abbreviation? ;)

Get a grip, and try to follow along.

Imagine we are discussing...oh...homosexuality. While moral judments are inevitable, many religious folks choose to oppose homosexuality on religious grounds alone...as though faith is some sort of rock-solid, factual basis on which to make such a condemnation. You can't debate these kinds of beliefs. They just are. But they get tossed in as 'proof'. Of what? That you have an opinion on the matter? Well that's nice...don't expect me to give a shit just because yours is based on your particular version of scripture.

Debates ABOUT religion are entirely different. I am referring to other debates, where religion gets tossed in like it is in any way useful from a factual vantage.

I never tossed in anything as fact - you did, by making a statement about God/death as fact, just because there is not enough proof that it isn't fact. It's you who I think needs to get a grip on reality if you think everything that lacks enough proof of it not being a fact must be a fact.

Yeah, sometimes it's worse and sometimes it's better. Tonight is particularly bad.

I can see that. *sues Jolt*

You know what else isn't nice? Shit.

And yet we all do it. Even the Pope.

No, that's not true. I've had four years of Catholic education, and I can assure you that the Pope does not shit. BEARS shit (in the woods), the Pope just wears a funny hat.

I See jolt has failed to fix the fucking time warp.

Yeah, sometimes it's worse and sometimes it's better. Tonight is particularly bad.

whats going on with the posts??

this server is weird

Just because something can not be seen does not mean it isn't there - sure, it might not be, but just because you can't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Right. Just because levitating purple panda shit can't be seen doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

nobody can hate cats

http://www.alljunk.dk/pics/cute%20cat.jpg

Goodness me, I don't hate cats. I'm just a little scared of them at first, if I don't know if they're going to scratch or bite me. Friendly cats are just lovely. :)

Isn't it amazing how fast these religion vs atheism threads grow?

Source (http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/10-myths-and-10-truths-about-atheism1/), because having to reword shit over an over again for these stupid ass arguments gets tiresome-

Beautifully said. *clap clap clap!* <3

I can see that. *sues Jolt*

whats going on with the posts??

this server is weird

Aw, just roll with it. It can be fun!

Let's do the time warp again...

A good summary of why we might be concerned. (http://www.pistolwimp.com/media/51635/)

Obviously not.

Indeed. And are you agnostic on that question?

WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE AND ROT AWAY!!!!! DEAL WITH IT PEOPLE!!!!!

another example of my point
this man will not just acknowledge my beliefs and let them be
h has to try to prove them wrong and call the stupid

WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE AND ROT AWAY!!!!! DEAL WITH IT PEOPLE!!!!!

another example of my point
this man will not just acknowledge my beliefs and let them be
h has to try to prove them wrong and call the stupid

I agree with this. If mummified, our corpses will not be subjected to the same decomposition that they would be otherwise.

Is it just me or are Atheists always trying to push their "Religion" on other people?
A lot of times on these boards I will say something that shows my religious beliefs and then a ton of people start trying to convince me my views are wrong.

And Whats with people sounding off that they are atheist for no reason?
A recent thread asked people whether they lying was a sin.
Now, sin is a commonly accepted word for a bad thing.
But many atheists decide to post saying they couldn't answer the question because they didn't think it exist or they didn't believe in it.
Those post added no value to the thread. Did they really need to toot their own horn and announce their beliefs?

1st: Use spell check

Yes, the loudmouth fundamentalist atheists do tend to do that... but I have to say that the loudmouth religious fundies are worse, if only because of their numbers.

*whispers* They're everywhere...

Is it just me or are Atheists always trying to push their "Religon" on other people?
Alot of times on these boards I will say something that shows my religious beliefs and then a ton of people start trying to convince me my views are wrong.

And Whats with people sounding off that they are atheist for no reason?
A recent thread asked people whether they lieing was a sin.
Now, sin is a commonly accepeted word for a bad thing.
But many atheists decide to post saying they couldn't answer the question because they didn't think it exist or they didn't believe in it.
Those post added no value to the thread. Did they really need to toot their own horn and announce their beliefs?

No, it's not just you; atheists are trying their best to eliminate any semblance of respect for, and even any acknowledgement of, God, from American society. By removing God, the Bible, and prayer from public schools, courthouses, and other public sector places, they are trying to force their religion (or more accurately, anti-religion) on those of us who choose to believe in the existence of God, and denying us our First Amendment rights to freedom of religion.

It's like they're trying to say "I don't want to hear about God, Jesus, or the Bible, and I don't want my kids being exposed to prayer at school, so we must prohibit these things from being done/spoken of/mentioned in public schools so my kind won't have to hear any more of that frightening, awful BOOK (the Bible)! And we must take away their freedom to speak of/about/from that BOOK, so that I CAN FEEL BETTER, so that maybe these feelings of GUILT and CONVICTION will go away!"

They want their freedom to blaspheme God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Bible, but don't want US to have the freedom to warn them or anybody else about a REAL, LITERAL, FIERY, BURNING HELL.

It's like their house is burning down around their ears but they don't want to be awoken from their sleep.

It's just you.

I don't give a shit what you believe. I whip out my 'atheist' cap only when one of 'you' starts in with the religious bullshit.

No, it's not just us. There are people of 'your' kind in the government and the news media, whose attitude toward our religion (and the First Amendment whenever 'we' remind them of our freedom of religion guaranteed to us thereby) is intolerance, disrespect, hatefulness, and even downright malice and blasphemy, and they are just as preachy and dogmatic as any 19th-century circuit-riding evangelist ever was, if not more so.

WE put up with YOU; why can't (or perhaps I should say why WON'T) YOU put up with US?

Welcome to NSG. Do not worry about those misquided fools. Just ignore them for if you do not do so, they will eat you up alive. Do not worry. Athiests will get their just desserts in hell.



It is how they get off at night because they cannot see the light they are rejecting.



No and neither should we as Christians, toot our own horn either. Our job is to spread the Truth but not force it on others.

You are absolutely right, but I just wish THEY would not try to force their beliefs (or, more accurately, disbeliefs) on US. I insist on believing in the God of the Bible, and will not tolerate any attempts to destroy or remove my First Amendment right to believe so.

FREEDOM OF THOUGHT!
FREEDOM OF OPINION!
EVEN IF THOSE THOUGHS AND OPINIONS ARE NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT!

Right. Just because levitating purple panda shit can't be seen doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

It would be pretty amusing to start bowing down and worshiping the levitating purple panda shit :D

Yep. Not stating the obvious at all...

By removing God, the Bible, and prayer from public schools, courthouses, and other public sector places

Exactly.

Goodness me, I don't hate cats. I'm just a little scared of them at first, if I don't know if they're going to scratch or bite me. Friendly cats are just lovely. :)

You'd like my kitten Sokkwi, then. He's the friendliest cat I've ever seen...almost too friendly, actually, what with his constant rubbing of his face onto yours. He does do it to me far more often than anyone else though...probably because my own face tends to be slightly furry. :confused:

Anyway, Corny, shove your self-rightious Christian bullshit back up the ass you expelled it from, please. We atheists are not evil or anything but intellectually honest. We deserve the same kind of respect everyone else gets. We deserve representation in government, protection from discrimination, ect ect. We're not some plague bent on annihilating religions, though some tend to be thanks to people like you treating us like dirt because we don't believe in some magical sky fairy(ies).

WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE AND ROT AWAY!!!!! DEAL WITH IT PEOPLE!!!!!

another example of my point
this man will not just acknowledge my beliefs and let them be
h has to try to prove them wrong and call the stupid

Your body will rot away after death. It is a simple fact. It isn't pretty but we are all heading for the permanent dirtnap. If you think something will happen while this is going on that is something you can believe. But your physical body will disappear and some seem to not want to think on this.

I agree with this. If mummified, our corpses will not be subjected to the same decomposition that they would be otherwise.

But then we might turn into an undead in some random video game only to be slaughtered by the hero, and no one wants that.

Ok, look here. I'm an Atheist, and I don't care what the hell you are. Normally though the only time when I will speak about my religion is when someone asks me about what I believe, or if they start going off and trying to push their religion onto me (and since I live in the middle of the Bible Belt I get that shit all the time).

The United States is supposed to have freedom of religion, meaning that somewhere, sometime, and somehow many different persons believed that all religions are equal and that people should be able to choose their own without being gunned down for it.

So why do Christians care about what the hell my religion is? So that the churches can get more members, because more members equals more money.

At least, I'm fairly sure that's why. Believe what you want to though.

But then we might turn into an undead in some random video game only to be slaughtered by the hero, and no one wants that.

I do.

But then we might turn into an undead in some random video game only to be slaughtered by the hero, and no one wants that.

The Onion has the answer to everything. (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/56266)

But anyway, the whole mummification thing proves the that the whole rotting thing was just another dogmatic belief being pushed on us.

The Onion has the answer to everything. (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/56266)

But anyway, the whole mummification thing proves the that the whole rotting thing was just another dogmatic belief being pushed on us.

*raises eyebrows*

Somehow I don't think being mummified is much of an improvement. You still would look... pretty bad, with the rotting simply incomplete. But then I guess what happens to your corpse is irrelevant if you have moved on to some other plane of existence.

Now, sin is a commonly accepeted word for a bad thing.

No, it isn't. A sin is commonly accepted as something that goes against divine law.

So when one poses a question "do you believe is lying a sin" which means "do you believe lying is against divine law", then "no, because I don't believe in divinity" is a perfectly acceptable response.

This post is made of fail.

Sunday morning is littered with religious programing. Try and air a documentary on disbelief (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/2007/04/god_forbid.html?tr=y&auid=2646803) and not so much.

Oh, and from the organization that wants to be the only voice-
“Christian values should dominate our government. The test of those values is the Bible. Politicians who do not use the Bible to guide their public and private lives do not belong in office.”
But we're the pushy ones.

Bull-fucking-shit.

*raises eyebrows*

Somehow I don't think being mummified is much of an improvement. You still would look... pretty bad, with the rotting simply incomplete. But then I guess what happens to your corpse is irrelevant if you have moved on to some other plane of existence.

Are you saying that you doubt Osiris' promise of an afterlife? Because this whole thread is about not pushing your lack of religious beliefs onto others.

I do.
You want to get killed by a video game hero? :confused:

The Onion has the answer to everything. (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/56266)

But anyway, the whole mummification thing proves the that the whole rotting thing was just another dogmatic belief being pushed on us.

I suppose...

But we're the pushy ones.

Bull-fucking-shit.

It's because Christians go apeshit at even the slightest suggestion of a secular government, and then equate secular to "OMG LULZ THEY R TRYING TO BAN RELIGIONZ ATHEISTS CONTROL TEH WERLDZ!!!"

To lighten up for second...
http://www.ozyandmillie.org/comics/om20061204.gif

Are you saying that you doubt Osiris' promise of an afterlife? Because this whole thread is about not pushing your lack of religious beliefs onto others.

Osiris got hacked up by Set. Set of all people! I think I'm going to ignore him on account of sheer wimpiness.

No, it isn't. A sin is commonly accepted as something that goes against divine law.

So when one poses a question "do you believe is lying a sin" which means "do you believe lying is against divine law", then "no, because I don't believe in divinity" is a perfectly acceptable response.

This post is made of fail.

You fail. The sin function's amplitude oscillates with time. Only at certain points is it against divine law; at other points along the period it is in fact of the other side of the divine law-axis.

Osiris got hacked up by Set. Set of all people! I think I'm going to ignore him on account of sheer wimpiness.

Yeah, but he came back to life.

Are you saying that you doubt Osiris' promise of an afterlife? Because this whole thread is about not pushing your lack of religious beliefs onto others.

I suppose I'm too cynical to believe in any deities and their promises. But hey, if people need to hold onto the idea that they will be going to some paradise, than fine. If it keeps them moving. The atheists will have to come up with something else after all, there being nothing for us after death.

You fail. The sin function's amplitude oscillates with time. Only at certain points is it against divine law; at other points along the period it is in fact of the other side of the divine law-axis.
That was almost Treknobabble worthy...eh...Biblebabble?

Yeah, but he came back to life.

Only because the player in Age of Mythology helped, and as I recall that player was me. Since I suck at that game, he's even more pathetic.

Exactly.

I could understand it a little bit better if the government didn't have a double standard when it came to religions, but the gov't and news media are violently opposed to Judeo-Christianity, while at the same time catering to Moslem terrorists in hopes of keeping them from attacking the USA again, whereas Christians don't do those sorts of things.



Anyway, Corny, shove your self-rightious Christian bullshit back up the ass you expelled it from, please. We atheists are not evil or anything but intellectually honest.

Please explain how believing that the universe just happened in a 'big bang' all on its own without some outside force provoking it to explode, or however you believe the universe was CREATED, is "intellectually honest."

We deserve the same kind of respect everyone else gets.

Yeah, but you don't want US to have that same respect. You have a double standard.

We deserve representation in government, protection from discrimination, ect ect.

So do we, but if you could get away with it, you'd try to take THAT (representation in government) from us also.

And WE don't have protection from discrimination (we're discriminated against all the time in the news media), but you insist that YOU SHOULD have it?

We're not some plague bent on annihilating religions, though some tend to be thanks to people like you treating us like dirt because we don't believe in some magical sky fairy(ies).

Yes you ARE (maybe not ALL of you, but definitely SOME - in fact TOO MANY - of you) "bent on annihilating religions" because you don't want to hear about God, the Bible, the Lord Jesus Christ, and a LITERAL, BURNING, FIERY HELL.

And those of us who "treat you like dirt", do so NOT because you "don't believe in some magical sky fairy(ies)", but because you are trying to annihilate our religion and religious freedoms.

You've got the cause and effect backwards. It's not "we treat you like dirt, therefore you want to annihilate religion", but rather "you try to annihilate our religion, therefore some of us treat you like dirt."

Welcome to NSG. Do not worry about those misquided fools. Just ignore them for if you do not do so, they will eat you up alive. Do not worry. Athiests will get their just desserts in hell.

Ahhhh, you can just feel the love.

the gov't and news media are violently opposed to Judeo-Christianity

Um... yeah, okay.

Please explain how believing that the universe just happened in a 'big bang' all on its own without some outside force provoking it to explode, or however you believe the universe was CREATED, is "intellectually honest."

You don't believe that the universe was created?

I've spent the last two decades being told that I'm going to hell for one infraction or another. Helping others, donating to charity, raising my children to be good adults, taking care of my extended family, does not qualify me or many others that I know of for the golden streets reserved only for those who have spent their life time spreading their beliefs and degrading those of others.
I sent one of my children to a Bible school where the teacher promptly told a classroom full of 10-12 year olds that everyone was going to hell except the people who went to that church. Nice guy. Naturally, like every other Christian on this planet, ONLY THEY have the correct interpretation, everything else is hellfire bound.
Whether or not you're an atheist or a Christian, or Muslim, or anything else, does not EVER give you the right to press your beliefs upon others, and thankfully in this nation the Constitution protects the people from this crime.
Well, for the most part. Okay, it used to...funny how some people will wave some parts of the constitution in your face as inviolate (amendment 2) while totally disregarding others (Separation of church and state, for example).
There is a reason there is a separation of church and state, and if you don't believe me go back and read your history books about how various religious groups have taken over governments in the world, or use their influence to the detriment of society as a whole.
Secular government is government for ALL people. Not just government lording it over everyone else and pressing the beliefs of a few on the rest.
Sorry...but yeah, I guess what I'm saying is... I'm not an atheist. but I'm damn tired of having someone tell me that my interpretation of the bible is wrong and theirs is correct.
Bite me. Only Hypocrits have so little faith in their religion that they think all of it's tenets need to be backed by governmental law.

From what I understand, there is only one atheist in Congress and there is a president who "talks to God" so I think the religious are pretty secure.

There's an atheist in Congress??

And WE don't have protection from discrimination, but you insist that YOU SHOULD have it?

From what I understand, there is only one atheist in Congress and there is a president who talks to God and so I think the religious are pretty secure.

Please explain how believing that the universe just happened in a 'big bang' all on its own without some outside force provoking it to explode, or however you believe the universe was CREATED, is "intellectually honest."


I'm not an astrophysicist, so I'm not the person to ask, but maybe--just maybe--it might have to do with the fact that the physical laws of causality did not exist until the universe came into existance, and thus it did not need an outside force provoking it in the sense we usually think of.

Science...you gotta love it.


Yeah, but you don't want US to have that same respect. You have a double standard.

I don't? Did I ever say that anywhere? Anyone? Can someone point out where I said that? Because I'm pretty sure I didn't, and to be honest? I think everyone deserves respect regardless of what they believe. I also think they should not try to push beliefs onto others, or lack of beliefs.

And before you cry foul, I told Corny to shove it because he was doing what I think he should not have been doing, and as such was defending myself.


So do we, but if you could get away with it, you'd try to take THAT (representation in government) from us also.

No I wouldn't. I do, however, want a completely secular government, because such a government would not prioritize one religion over all others, nor would it make decisions based on religions, because that is a bad idea. Why? Because by deciding national policy based on religion, the government would be forcing religious beliefs upon those of us who do not hold them. Take stem cell research for example...many athiests might benefit greatly from it, yet because of religious pushing the research is not allowed to be done.

And WE don't have protection from discrimination (we're discriminated against all the time in the news media), but you insist that YOU SHOULD have it?

You know damn well I meant in terms of how we can vote, the jobs we can hold and/or be fired from(that is, we should not be fired just because we are athiests nor should we be disbarred from a job just because we are athiests) and so on and so forth.

If you have a problem with the media poking at your beliefs, then take it up with the media, not me.


Yes you ARE (maybe not ALL of you, but definitely SOME - in fact TOO MANY - of you) "bent on annihilating religions" because you don't want to hear about God, the Bible, the Lord Jesus Christ, and a LITERAL, BURNING, FIERY HELL.

Yes, we athiests are the horrible people! We declare wars because of athiesm! We slaughter whole groups of people because of athiesm! We deny people the right to vote because of athiesm!

...oh, wait...no we don't...that's the religious people. We just want to be able to not believe in something if we choose not to believe in something.


And those of us who "treat you like dirt", do so NOT because you "don't believe in some magical sky fairy(ies)", but because you are trying to annihilate our religion and religious freedoms.

Bull-fucking-shit.

You've got the cause and effect backwards. It's not "we treat you like dirt, therefore you want to annihilate religion", but rather "you try to annihilate our religion, therefore some of us treat you like dirt."
Again, bull-fucking-shit.

Atheism is another bullshit religion in disguise :D. Like how South Park explained it, they'll appoint a head figure to represent atheist people. He (like in all religions) will have to wear something that is symbolic to atheism (maybe a different hat which apposes all the other weird hats belonging to other existing religions). Then they'll find a place to gather and spread their "beliefs", but they’ll need donation money in order to spread their good deeds.

Is it just me or are Atheists always trying to push their "Religon" on other people?How is Atheism a religion?

How is Atheism a religion?

Well, technically, a religion can be any set of beliefs regarding the spiritual, so some forms of atheist positions considered a religion, secular humanism for example.

And I know that many atheists don't believe in God as opposed to believe he doesn't exist. Implicit versus explicit atheism is a significant difference.

It's not the first group that's evangelical, it's the explicit atheists like Dawkins or Harris that try to evangelize people to their faith. Implicit atheism isn't a religion because not believing in something isn't a belief system, which in turn means it is not a religion.

Well, technically, a religion can be any set of beliefs regarding the spiritual, so some forms of atheist positions considered a religion, secular humanism for example.

And I know that many atheists don't believe in God as opposed to believe he doesn't exist. Implicit versus explicit atheism is a significant difference.

It's not the first group that's evangelical, it's the explicit atheists like Dawkins or Harris that try to evangelize people to their faith. Implicit atheism isn't a religion because not believing in something isn't a belief system, which in turn means it is not a religion.

What about those of us who belief a God--at least the Christian-style omniscient, all-powerful God--can't exist, but don't push this upon others apart from the occasional snarky remark?

I could understand it a little bit better if the government didn't have a double standard when it came to religions, but the gov't and news media are violently opposed to Judeo-Christianity, while at the same time catering to Moslem terrorists in hopes of keeping them from attacking the USA again, whereas Christians don't do those sorts of things.

WTF are you babbling about?

I'd love to see you prove that the government and new media a violently opposed to Judeo-Christianity. To the contrary, the vast majority of those in government -- and yes, even in the media -- are believers in Judeo-Christianity.

So do we, but if you could get away with it, you'd try to take THAT (representation in government) from us also.

Bullshit. I and almost all athiests agree with the Constitution that there should be no religious tests for office.

And WE don't have protection from discrimination (we're discriminated against all the time in the news media), but you insist that YOU SHOULD have it?

Again, you'll have to show where exactly you are discriminated against in the news media.

But that is a different subject than being discriminated against in employment, government, etc. All people of all religious viewpoints should be equally protected from discrimination on the account of creed.

Yes you ARE (maybe not ALL of you, but definitely SOME - in fact TOO MANY - of you) "bent on annihilating religions" because you don't want to hear about God, the Bible, the Lord Jesus Christ, and a LITERAL, BURNING, FIERY HELL.

Nice. Now not believing in your religion is the same as being bent on annihilating it. :rolleyes:

And those of us who "treat you like dirt", do so NOT because you "don't believe in some magical sky fairy(ies)", but because you are trying to annihilate our religion and religious freedoms.

Again, I believe in the First Amendment. You keep your religion out of our government and you and I are both free to believe whatever we wish.

What about those of us who belief a God--at least the Christian-style omniscient, all-powerful God--can't exist, but don't push this upon others apart from the occasional snarky remark?

You're pretty much in that kind of weird middle zone. You're too explicit to be implicit, but too implicit to be explicit. I mean, you don't discount the possibility of God, just a particular interpretation of him.

Of course, I'm the same way; I see conventional omniscience/omnipotence/ omnibenevolence monotheism as logically impossible, or at least very difficult to justify, so I have a more or less polytheistic view of the deities. I personally don't doubt their existence, but what they are is something I'm still trying to find out.

You're pretty much in that kind of weird middle zone. You're too explicit to be implicit, but too implicit to be explicit. I mean, you don't discount the possibility of God, just a particular interpretation of him.
I like weird middle zones.


Of course, I'm the same way; I see conventional omniscience/omnipotence/ omnibenevolence monotheism as logically impossible, or at least very difficult to justify, so I have a more or less polytheistic view of the deities. I personally don't doubt their existence, but what they are is something I'm still trying to find out.
I can see where you're going.

As for me, I discount the possibility of any diety created by any human existing, but a God in the Greco-Roman sense is possible in my mind, in terms of being able to exist. They cannot die by aging, but they are hardly immortal, and are not omniscient, nor are they all-powerful by any means. Actually, I'd call them a sort of higher life form, if you will, one that can exist. Whether any life form of this type actually exists is unknown to us at this time, but because I do not see it as an impossibility, I am open to the idea.

I should point out that I in no way am implying I would be willing to accept any form of creationism, as that is ridiculous.

Omg, I can't believe some people feel that way! That's just crazy.

Obviously, you've never spent extended periods of time in the Bible Belt. Believe me - spend a few years behind the Pine Curtain, and you too will understand just how persasive such beliefs are in certain parts of the United States - even to the extent that a majority of the local population hold such views.

No. Based on what he's said here, he's probably an Evangelical, but I have no way of knowing that.

Most Catholics I've known are not like that. If he is Catholic, then I'm fairly certain he's going against the Pope.

Sadly, you're wrong there - Corneliu's views almost exactly match those held by the current Pope (who, fortunately, most American Catholics seem to disagree with).

I think it's time that I start bringing observations and arguments from Dean Kamer's The Theocons into religious threads (I've been a little loathe to do so without researching his claims in the past, but I think that I've found enough supporting evidence to set aside my reservations). If Kamer is right, then it really doesn't matter whether Corneliu and other theocons (Dominionists by another name) identify themselves as fundamentalist Protestant or fundamentalist Catholic - they are all using the same arguments (largely derived from Catholic dogma, since Catholicism is the only major sect of Christianity whose dogma is set up to support theocracy) in their attempts to effectively repeal the Establishment and Free Exercise Clauses of the First Amendment. Cardinal Ratzinger (now the Pope) was a the central figure during the formation of the Dominionists, as he was the chief Vatican supporter of the theocons during their coalescence in the late 1980's.

Remember how the Vatican said that dioceses could deny Communion to Catholic politicians who supported abortion during the 2004 election? If Ratzinger had gotten his way, that wouldn't have been left to the dioceses.

I like weird middle zones.

It can be a good place to be.

As for me, I discount the possibility of any diety created by any human existing, but a God in the Greco-Roman sense is possible in my mind, in terms of being able to exist. They cannot die by aging, but they are hardly immortal, and are not omniscient, nor are they all-powerful by any means. Actually, I'd call them a sort of higher life form, if you will, one that can exist. Whether any life form of this type actually exists is unknown to us at this time, but because I do not see it as an impossibility, I am open to the idea.

I tend to see thought as having a solipsistic effect on the universe; any possible though can and does happen somewhere, either here or somewhere totally different from us. Existence is so big that there's got to be anything and everything out there.

I also feel that the ability of these Gods to interact with us hinges on how many people believe in them.

I should point out that I in no way am implying I would be willing to accept any form of creationism, as that is ridiculous.

Interestingly enough, the Greek creation myth begins with the universe simply popping in to existence randomly with no purpose or intent behind it. It makes no scientific claims and doesn't claim to be physical or even literal.

That's about the only kind of "creationism" I could adhere to.

It can be a good place to be.


It's also a great way to mock people...and occasionally be mocked by everyone.



I tend to see thought as having a solipsistic effect on the universe; any possible though can and does happen somewhere, either here or somewhere totally different from us. Existence is so big that there's got to be anything and everything out there.
True, though oftentimes people misunderstand this to mean that absolutely anything can happen, which is not true: it is only those things that are possible that can happen and do happen. As such, anything that can happen does happen, somewhere in existence.


I also feel that the ability of these Gods to interact with us hinges on how many people believe in them.

Eh, I guess that would stem from you considering them actual Gods, whereas I would see such higher life forms as just that, higher life forms. God, in the sense of a being that created the universe/Earth and humanity, does not exist, or at least not in this reality. Perhaps in some reality some higher alien race seeded Earth, in which case they would technically be God, but even then I wouldn't worship them. Thank them, maybe, but not worship.


Interestingly enough, the Greek creation myth begins with the universe simply popping in to existence randomly with no purpose or intent behind it. It makes no scientific claims and doesn't claim to be physical or even literal.

That's about the only kind of "creationism" I could adhere to.

Indeed.

Interestingly enough, the Greek creation myth begins with the universe simply popping in to existence randomly with no purpose or intent behind it. It makes no scientific claims and doesn't claim to be physical or even literal.

That's about the only kind of "creationism" I could adhere to.

In other words, you cling to the unscientific myth of evolution, which claims (in defiance of all statistical probability) that the universe just "happened" by some freak accident, when such an occurrence has a chance of 1 in a googolplex to its own power of actually taking place? And with NO PURPOSE OR INTENT BEHIND IT? And that some "protoplasm" somewhere was struck by lightning and, purely by accident, turned into an "amoeba", which then became a two-celled organism, which eventually "evolved" into a jellyfish, etc., etc.?

You can't be serious. Please tell me you are joking.

It takes a million times more "faith" to believe a cockamamie fairy-tale like THAT than it does to believe that it was created by God, a being of intelligence vastly and infinitely superior to that of any of US.

Well, technically, a religion can be any set of beliefs regarding the spiritual, so some forms of atheist positions considered a religion, secular humanism for example.

And I know that many atheists don't believe in God as opposed to believe he doesn't exist. Implicit versus explicit atheism is a significant difference.

It's not the first group that's evangelical, it's the explicit atheists like Dawkins or Harris that try to evangelize people to their faith. Implicit atheism isn't a religion because not believing in something isn't a belief system, which in turn means it is not a religion.The existance of god goes against everything humanity has learned. I know a large body of water can not part. I know that a being can not be made of neither energy and matter and be everywhere at the same time. I know that the Nile can not just turn to blood.
I know these things can not just happen because it has been proven that this is impossible. To go off what you know to be true is not called religion it is called common sense.

In other words, you cling to the unscientific myth of evolution, which claims (in defiance of all statistical probability) that the universe just "happened" by some freak accident, when such an occurrence has a chance of 1 in a googolplex to its own power of actually taking place? And with NO PURPOSE OR INTENT BEHIND IT?

You can't be serious. Please tell me you are joking.

It takes a million times more "faith" to believe a cockamamie fairy-tale like THAT than it does to believe that it was created by God, a being of intelligence vastly and infinitely superior to that of any of US.

Where to start? Perhaps that evolution is not a theory of the creation of the universe? No, that's splitting hairs...

How about-all currently acceptable theories are observable. What isn't is unknown, BUT-in the entire history of unknowns when ANY of them have become known NOT ONCE has it turned out to be MAGIC! Maybe you think 'magic' is due...but I wouldn't bet on it.

EDIT:
And where the hell does that probability figure come from?

The existance of god goes against everything humanity has learned. I know a large body of water can not part. I know that a being can not be made of neither energy and matter and be everywhere at the same time. I know that the Nile can not just turn to blood.
I know these things can not just happen because it has been proven that this is impossible. To go off what you know to be true is not called religion it is called common sense.

You mean the existence of God (NOT "god") goes against everything humanity does to attempt (and that futilely) to disprove His existence so they will not have to deal with Him.

And while it is true that a large body of water cannot part by itself, God, being all-powerful, certainly CAN (and in fact DID) part a body of water. Same with the Nile River; although it cannot turn itself to blood, God CAN (and DID) turn it to blood.

These things did NOT "just happen" on their own; God DID them.

In other words, you cling to the unscientific myth of evolution, which claims (in defiance of all statistical probability) that the universe just "happened" by some freak accident, when such an occurrence has a chance of 1 in a googolplex to its own power of actually taking place? And with NO PURPOSE OR INTENT BEHIND IT? And that some "protoplasm" somewhere was struck by lightning and, purely by accident, turned into an "amoeba", which then became a two-celled organism, which eventually "evolved" into a jellyfish, etc., etc.?

You can't be serious. Please tell me you are joking.

It takes a million times more "faith" to believe a cockamamie fairy-tale like THAT than it does to believe that it was created by God, a being of intelligence vastly and infinitely superior to that of any of US.

Thank you proving you know all of jack shit.

1. Evolution does not deal with abeogenisis--the creation of life--but merely what results from life existing.

2. Evolution has plenty of evidence to support it, which I suggest you examine before making such ridiculous statements as your "And that some "protoplasm" somewhere was struck by lightning and, purely by accident, turned into an "amoeba", which then became a two-celled organism, which eventually "evolved" into a jellyfish, etc., etc.?" statement.

3. Once again, causality does not exist without the physical laws of the universe, therefore if the universe does not exist there is no causality, nor any other law. As such, the universe can, in fact, just come into being without some form of cause, at least so far as I understand it. But I am not an astrophysicist.

4. Please do not attempt to use probability when you clearly do not understand it.

5. An omnisentient, all-powerful God such as the one you obviously believe in cannot exist.

And while it is true that a large body of water cannot part by itself, God, being all-powerful, certainly CAN (and in fact DID) part a body of water. Same with the Nile River; although it cannot turn itself to blood, God CAN (and DID) turn it to blood.

These things did NOT "just happen" on their own; God DID them.

1. Please prove these events occurred in reality and not just in the fables contained within the fictional Bible.

2. Being All-Powerful is impossible. Could such a being create a stone it could not lift? If it could not lift the stone, it is not All-Powerful. If it could not create the stone, it is not All-Powerful. Being All-Powerful is logically and realistically impossible.

So when have atheists ever tried to annihilate religion in America? And how does that rank up against the number of times Christians have disparaged and tried to annihilate atheism/agnosticism/nontheism?

I think it's absolutely shocking how Christians create this victim complex. You comprise 70% of the United States population, control Congress, control the presidency, control the Supreme Court, and yet atheists, the MOST mistrusted minority in this country, are the ones who are trying to annihilate YOU? Are you fucking shitting me?

How often do you see an atheist go on national TV to give a diatribe against Christianity? Now count the number of times the Christian right goes apeshit over evolution, gays, and secularism. Now count the number of times the Christian right equates teaching evolution to "persecution of Christians," "annihilating religion," or "eradicating religious freedoms."

Honestly, ONE atheist makes a comment about religion and the religious start throwing a shitfit and act like there's some type of conspiracy to overthrow your freedoms when it's been the RELIGIOUS who have been the ones suppressing freedom all this time. It's fucking publicity suicide to admit you're an atheist in politics, and yet the Christians are being brutally suppressed? Give me a fucking break. I honestly wonder if the religious right even listens to the shit they spew...seriously.

WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE AND ROT AWAY!!!!! DEAL WITH IT PEOPLE!!!!!

*nods*

That depends on how you define "we".

You mean the existence of God (NOT "god") goes against everything humanity does to attempt (and that futilely) to disprove His existence so they will not have to deal with Him.

And while it is true that a large body of water cannot part by itself, God, being all-powerful, certainly CAN (and in fact DID) part a body of water. Same with the Nile River; although it cannot turn itself to blood, God CAN (and DID) turn it to blood.

These things did NOT "just happen" on their own; God DID them.How did god do this. How do you know god is all powerful did he tell you this? Did you see god turn the Nile to blood and part the Red Sea? If not how can you be sure he did it? There are many things I do not know but I do not make up or believe in Myths to cover for my ignorance.

Thank you proving you know all of jack shit.

1. Evolution does not deal with abeogenisis--the creation of life--but merely what results from life existing.

2. Evolution has plenty of evidence to support it, which I suggest you examine before making such ridiculous statements as your "And that some "protoplasm" somewhere was struck by lightning and, purely by accident, turned into an "amoeba", which then became a two-celled organism, which eventually "evolved" into a jellyfish, etc., etc.?" statement.

Then what DO you believe about how humans came to be?

3. Once again, causality does not exist without the physical laws of the universe, therefore if the universe does not exist there is no causality, nor any other law. As such, the universe can, in fact, just come into being without some form of cause, at least so far as I understand it. But I am not an astrophysicist.

NO, the universe CANNOT come into being without some form of cause, and your insistence that it CAN only proves that you don't want to deal with an all-powerful, all-knowing GOD.

5. An omnisentient, all-powerful God such as the one you obviously believe in cannot exist.

Says who? Besides you, I mean.

1. Please prove these events occurred in reality and not just in the fables contained within the fictional Bible.

2. Being All-Powerful is impossible. Could such a being create a stone it could not lift? If it could not lift the stone, it is not All-Powerful. If it could not create the stone, it is not All-Powerful. Being All-Powerful is logically and realistically impossible.

1. Please prove that the Bible is fiction and not, in fact, an accurate history book that tells both past and FUTURE history.

2. Is THAT what you're gonna tell God when you stand before Him and give an account of yourself? That He "couldn't be all-powerful because 'Being All-Powerful is logically and realistically impossible'"?

Guys, this is proof of the omnipotent God's power. He created a universe in which he logically cannot exist, just to prove how awesome he is.

EDIT: call me silly, but I think that when you start claiming that a 2,000 year-old book tells the future, it's up to you to prove it.

Then what DO you believe about how humans came to be?
Humans evolved from a primate ancestor and proceeded through various species until eventually humanity, or homo sapiens/ Cro-magnun, evolved I THINK approximately 3,000,000 years ago...or it could be 500,000 years ago. I haven't exactly checked that lately.

By the way, that's not belief...that's scientific fact.


NO, the universe CANNOT come into being without some form of cause, and your insistence that it CAN only proves that you don't want to deal with an all-powerful, all-knowing GOD.

Uh, no, my insistance that it can does not prove I do not wish to deal with your version of god. You seem to be unable to understand what causality is. Causality is the result of our universe's physical laws...if the universe does not exist those laws do not exist and thus causality does not exist. It's pretty easy to understand from a technical standpoint, though the concept itself can be confusing.


Says who? Besides you, I mean.

Says reality. One cannot know everything as laws such as the Hiesenburg Uncertainty Principle prevents it. As for All-Powerful, I will quote myself:
2. Being All-Powerful is impossible. Could such a being create a stone it could not lift? If it could not lift the stone, it is not All-Powerful. If it could not create the stone, it is not All-Powerful. Being All-Powerful is logically and realistically impossible.

Says who? Besides you, I mean.

Me. Well, a benevolent and omnipotent god cannot logically exist given the conditions on earth. If god's omnipotent, then he's not benevolent. Seriously, if you had all the power in the world to stop famine and natural disaster, but deliberately don't, then you're by no means benevolent. That's just an asshole thing to do. On a massive scale.

How did god do this. How do you know god is all powerful did he tell you this? Did you see god turn the Nile to blood and part the Red Sea? If not how can you be sure he did it? There are many things I do not know but I do not make up or believe in Myths to cover for my ignorance.

How do YOU know there was a Vietnam War?

Or if you're old enough that you were around when it happened, how do you know there was a World War I or a World War II?

Or if you're old enough that you were around when they happened, how do you know there was a Civil War, a War of 1812, or a Revolutionary War?

Did you SEE those wars take place? Were you THERE when (and if) they happened?

If not, how can YOU be sure THOSE things happened?

I know that God did those miracles the same way you know that those wars took place in history.

http://bp0.blogger.com/_VZMdofJetBI/RdjzEAiOCcI/AAAAAAAAAIk/wav4Lx2umTs/s1600-h/oppressedchristians.jpg
It seemed like it was time for that.
1. Please prove that the Bible is fiction and not, in fact, an accurate history book that tells both past and FUTURE history.
You're the one using it as evidence, you have to establish its credentials.

2. Is THAT what you're gonna tell God when you stand before Him and give an account of yourself? That He "couldn't be all-powerful because 'Being All-Powerful is logically and realistically impossible'"?

I'm betting you're someone who can spell 'parrot.'

How do YOU know there was a Vietnam War?

Or if you're old enough that you were around when it happened, how do you know there was a World War I or a World War II?

Or if you're old enough that you were around when they happened, how do you know there was a Civil War, a War of 1812, or a Revolutionary War?

Did you SEE those wars take place? Were you THERE when (and if) they happened?

If not, how can YOU be sure THOSE things happened?

We have these things called evidence. Lots of it.

How do YOU know there was a Vietnam War?

Or if you're old enough that you were around when it happened, how do you know there was a World War I or a World War II?

Or if you're old enough that you were around when they happened, how do you know there was a Civil War, a War of 1812, or a Revolutionary War?

Did you SEE those wars take place? Were you THERE when (and if) they happened?

If not, how can YOU be sure THOSE things happened?

The Vietnam war is a verifiable event. There are areas that used to be jungle ruined by chemical defoliants, villages that used to exist now in ruins, and a couple of million vietnamese aren't here that otherwise could be. There is a reliable record of all the events you have noted. The Bible is not a reliable record, it is a series of stories designed first to give you the hard sell, then to get you under the authority of the magic sky fairy.

That depends on how you define "we".

I think he means "we" as in "all of humanity"

Everyone's body rots away when you die.

What happens to the spirit or conciousness is a question no one can answer.

1. Please prove that the Bible is fiction and not, in fact, an accurate history book that tells both past and FUTURE history.
The Bible was written over the course of millennia by many different people, in so many different languages, has been translated backwards and forwards, edited by whoever felt it needed editing to follow their own specific interpretation, and so on and so forth.

Besides, the burden of proof is upon you, because you are making the claim it is factual.

2. Is THAT what you're gonna tell God when you stand before Him and give an account of yourself? That He "couldn't be all-powerful because 'Being All-Powerful is logically and realistically impossible'"?
If I were to ever find myself before the Judeo-Christian God--or at least your interpretation of Him--then yes, I would in fact do so, and if I am lucky he will follow suit with his Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy self and disappear in a puff of logic.

But since I will never find myself before the Judeo-Christian God the question is moot.

Interestingly enough, the Greek creation myth begins with the universe simply popping in to existence randomly with no purpose or intent behind it. It makes no scientific claims and doesn't claim to be physical or even literal.

That's about the only kind of "creationism" I could adhere to.

Doesn't all creation have the same purpose and intent: "to be"?

Interestingly enough, the Greek creation myth begins with the universe simply popping in to existence randomly with no purpose or intent behind it. It makes no scientific claims and doesn't claim to be physical or even literal.

That's about the only kind of "creationism" I could adhere to.


That really makes you an atheist.

Uh, no, my insistance that it can does not prove I do not wish to deal with your version of god. You seem to be unable to understand what causality is. Causality is the result of our universe's physical laws...if the universe does not exist those laws do not exist and thus causality does not exist. It's pretty easy to understand from a technical standpoint, though the concept itself can be confusing.

Have you ever stopped to think that God exists independently of the universe and causality, and HE, not the universe itself, is the source of the universe's physical laws and of causality? Physical laws and causality exist because GOD exists, NOT because the universe exists.

Says reality. One cannot know everything as laws such as the Hiesenburg Uncertainty Principle prevents it. As for All-Powerful, I will quote myself:

You mean a finite being such as ourselves cannot know everything. GOD, however is an Infinite Being, and as such is incapable of being fully comprehended or understood by a finite human mind, outside of what He has revealed to us in His Word, the Bible.

You mean a finite being such as ourselves cannot know everything. GOD, however is an Infinite Being, and as such is incapable of being fully comprehended or understood by a finite human mind, outside of what He has revealed to us in His Word, the Bible.

So god deliberately deceives humanity for what reason?

Have you ever stopped to think that God exists independently of the universe and causality, and HE, not the universe itself, is the source of the universe's physical laws and of causality? Physical laws and causality exist because GOD exists, NOT because the universe exists.


Can you prove that?

Have you ever stopped to think that God exists independently of the universe and causality, and HE, not the universe itself, is the source of the universe's physical laws and of causality? Physical laws and causality exist because GOD exists, NOT because the universe exists.



You mean a finite being such as ourselves cannot know everything. GOD, however is an Infinite Being, and as such is incapable of being fully comprehended or understood by a finite human mind, outside of what He has revealed to us in His Word, the Bible.

How do you know God is infinite? That's just your assumption. OK, you assume God is infinite and thus incapable of being fully comprehended. I can't really disprove that assumption. Well I assume *I* am infinite and thus incapable of being fully comprehended. Prove me wrong! ;)

I think he means "we" as in "all of humanity"

Everyone's body rots away when you die.

What happens to the spirit or conciousness is a question no one can answer.

Yes, but the point is that most religions deal with the "we" that is "spirit or consciousness" and not the physical body.

There is a reliable record of all the events you have noted. The Bible is not a reliable record, it is a series of stories designed first to give you the hard sell, then to get you under the authority of the magic sky fairy.

What is so "unreliable" about the Bible? I think you just don't want to believe it because it sets forth an all-knowing, all-powerful GOD who has standards of right and wrong, and holds people accountable to Him for their behavior, and you insist on living however you want to live without fear of any consequences for it.

I submit that your problem with the Bible is not historical or scientific; it is MORAL.

Funny. Could have sworn I'd seem phrases like "you're not going to paradise, you're just going to rot away"

I have yet to see one of those people in real life , yet I have pictures of the twice a year pilgrimages to the "godless" campus done by the "faithful"

The ones that scream that women who are uppity enough to go to school are nothing better then satins sluts :rolleyes:

Have you ever stopped to think that God exists independently of the universe and causality, and HE, not the universe itself, is the source of the universe's physical laws and of causality? Physical laws and causality exist because GOD exists, NOT because the universe exists.


Watch, everyone, how the troll immediately latches onto something that might allow him to troll more.

Yes, I have actually considered this possibility, but I dismissed it because such a being, if it existed outside of our space-time, would be unable to interact with our space-time and thus its existence would be rendered irrelevant, and such a being still would be unable to exist anyway. Furthermore, the laws that define reality exist because of how the universe exists, not because of some being you seem to worship.

You mean a finite being such as ourselves cannot know everything. GOD, however is an Infinite Being, and as such is incapable of being fully comprehended or understood by a finite human mind, outside of what He has revealed to us in His Word, the Bible.
Let me make this clear again: an infinite being cannot exist. It is a physical impossibility. Look up the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle if you do not believe me.

What is so "unreliable" about the Bible? I think you just don't want to believe it because it sets forth an all-knowing, all-powerful GOD who has standards of right and wrong, and holds people accountable to Him for their behavior, and you insist on living however you want to live without fear of any consequences for it.

I submit that your problem with the Bible is not historical or scientific; it is MORAL.

You're wrong.

There, that was hard. I do happen to believe that this imaginary god is a total, complete fuckwit. A grade A wanker, a tosser of unimaginable proportions, but I also get that he's imaginary. The way the universe works doesn't allow for a being as 'God' is described.

What is so "unreliable" about the Bible? I think you just don't want to believe it because it sets forth an all-knowing, all-powerful GOD who has standards of right and wrong, and holds people accountable to Him for their behavior, and you insist on living however you want to live without fear of any consequences for it.

I submit that your problem with the Bible is not historical or scientific; it is MORAL.

Pfft the bible as a whole is a horrible moral story, Sure at the end that jesus guy manages to get a lot of stuff right but it sure as hell was a long time comming and gods "moral" stance early on was disgusting at best

Have you ever stopped to think that God exists independently of the universe and causality, and HE, not the universe itself, is the source of the universe's physical laws and of causality? Physical laws and causality exist because GOD exists, NOT because the universe exists.

Just to provide an arbitrary third viewpoint: physical laws and causality exist because MAN observes nature, not because of god, or the universe itself.

I know these things can not just happen because it has been proven that this is impossible. To go off what you know to be true is not called religion it is called common sense.

It has never been proven. There is no proof of anything, only degrees of confidence based upon our experiences and observations. Our perception of what is real hinges entirely on us; the Nile may not have turned to blood, but if something happened that gave it a red color it is highly possible that the ancient Israelites could have misinterpreted it to be blood. The thing is, it could happen. The Red Sea crossing might have been a sandbar or low tide near the coast, and again, it could have happened.

And that line of thinking makes the assumption that God hinges on whether or not claims made in the Bible are legitimate; that is hardly the sum of human religious knowledge or representative of the concept of deity.

What is so "unreliable" about the Bible? I think you just don't want to believe it because it sets forth an all-knowing, all-powerful GOD who has standards of right and wrong, and holds people accountable to Him for their behavior, and you insist on living however you want to live without fear of any consequences for it.

I submit that your problem with the Bible is not historical or scientific; it is MORAL.

No, most Atheist don't believe in the bible precisely because you believe in it.

That really makes you an atheist.

Atheist about the origins of the universe, but not the concept of God. Gods don't have to be able to create in order to exist.

"In other words, you cling to the unscientific myth of evolution, which claims (in defiance of all statistical probability) that the universe just "happened" by some freak accident, when such an occurrence has a chance of 1 in a googolplex to its own power of actually taking place? And with NO PURPOSE OR INTENT BEHIND IT? And that some "protoplasm" somewhere was struck by lightning and, purely by accident, turned into an "amoeba", which then became a two-celled organism, which eventually "evolved" into a jellyfish, etc., etc.?

You can't be serious. Please tell me you are joking.

It takes a million times more "faith" to believe a cockamamie fairy-tale like THAT than it does to believe that it was created by God, a being of intelligence vastly and infinitely superior to that of any of US."---Whaddyacallit


You should really get a few of your 'facts' straight before posting this crap. The THEORY of evolution has nothing to do with the origins of the universe. YOU have no idea what the statistical probability of a universe being created is. Protoplasm struck by lightning huh? So not only do you have no idea what the theory of evolution is about, you don't have any clue what the theory actually is. Nice to see that some people still feel perfectly happy bashing something they know absolutely nothing about.

Please explain why you happen to think it takes a million times more faith to believe in evolution than in the spontaneous existence of an infinitely more complex and powerful being.

Where the fuck are all these lurkers coming from?

Where the fuck are all these lurkers coming from?

A rock.

Abiogenesis.

A rock.

Abiogenesis.

Nope. God called them into existence.

How do YOU know there was a Vietnam War?

Or if you're old enough that you were around when it happened, how do you know there was a World War I or a World War II?

Or if you're old enough that you were around when they happened, how do you know there was a Civil War, a War of 1812, or a Revolutionary War?

Did you SEE those wars take place? Were you THERE when (and if) they happened?

If not, how can YOU be sure THOSE things happened?

I know that God did those miracles the same way you know that those wars took place in history.Those things are verifiable by Proof books, pictures, videos, and historical writings. The bible has no proof, no scientific or real world evidence to back it up. The only reason religion is still around is because of psychological terror. That parents and church's inflict on children to make them accept irrational religious beliefs and throw away there child like curiosity.

Where the fuck are all these lurkers coming from?

Under a rock.

Noctural genesis.

Atheist about the origins of the universe, but not the concept of God. Gods don't have to be able to create in order to exist.

No... I've thought about it. And I don't get it. If 'god[s]' were part of a random creation, but now exist, then it is just their failure to make themselves known. (Or the converse).

As an atheist, I do not know what started the universe. My position is that until there is any real evidence to the contrary, I refuse to believe in a supreme being.

And I think that is your position also.

Where the fuck are all these lurkers coming from?

I accidentely kicked over a lurker rock and in retaliation they all posted in this thread. It was quite the horrifying experience, to be honest, and I'd rather not repeat it.

In case no-one has posted this yet:

Those things are verifiable by Proof books, pictures, videos, and historical writings. The bible has no proof, no scientific or real world evidence to back it up. The only reason religion is still around is because of psychological terror. That parents and church's inflict on children to make them accept irrational religious beliefs and throw away there child like curiosity.

Technically, "proof" is nothing more than man's certainly in the veracity of the evidence presented. In that regard, the Bible is as "proven" to some people as any other document or information.

I accidentely kicked over a lurker rock and in retaliation they all posted in this thread. It was quite the horrifying experience, to be honest, and I'd rather not repeat it.

So you're to blame.

No more candy for you.

I accidentely kicked over a lurker rock and in retaliation they all posted in this thread. It was quite the horrifying experience, to be honest, and I'd rather not repeat it.

Well I agree with the horrifying part --I read the thread through from the start, and am rather relieved to enter it after most of the bile has passed.

It has never been proven. There is no proof of anything, only degrees of confidence based upon our experiences and observations. Our perception of what is real hinges entirely on us;Wrong proof exist. I guarantee if you take a 9mm in perfect operational condition load it and stick to your head and pull the trigger your brains will fly out the other side of your head. Cause and effect do exist it is not dependent on what we think. You can think anything you want but that bullet will go threw your brain and out the other side of your head. The laws of the universe are beyond our perception.

the Nile may not have turned to blood, but if something happened that gave it a red color it is highly possible that the ancient Israelites could have misinterpreted it to be blood. The thing is, it could happen. The Red Sea crossing might have been a sandbar or low tide near the coast, and again, it could have happened.Well they may have died the river red I do not know but I know for a fact they did not turn the river to blood that is impossible.

And that line of thinking makes the assumption that God hinges on whether or not claims made in the Bible are legitimate; that is hardly the sum of human religious knowledge or representative of the concept of deity.The Christian god does hinge on whether the claims made in the bible are legitimate. I do not know what kind of New Age B.S god you believe but I am talking about the god of the bible.

Is it just me or are Atheists always trying to push their "Religon" on other people?
Some, very much so.

Alot of times on these boards I will say something that shows my religious beliefs and then a ton of people start trying to convince me my views are wrong.
This is precisely proselytizing. "To attempt to induce someone to espouse one's own doctrine."

And Whats with people sounding off that they are atheist for no reason?
A recent thread asked people whether they lieing was a sin.
Now, sin is a commonly accepeted word for a bad thing.
But many atheists decide to post saying they couldn't answer the question because they didn't think it exist or they didn't believe in it.
While it's off-topic, it's not uncommon for threads to stray into related areas.

Technically, "proof" is nothing more than man's certainly in the veracity of the evidence presented. In that regard, the Bible is as "proven" to some people as any other document or information.Proof is proven by the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses. Does the bible do any of this? Can god be proven by this method? If it can not I will not believe it.

It is how they get off at night because they cannot see the light they are rejecting.


You know, I had people come to my door spouting crap like that. I usually set the dogs on them.

if you see an atheist with a religion they're a buddist and they aren't pushing it on you. otherwise, feel free to mash faces.

Pushy Buddhists exist, too, though they're comparatively rare. I've met one exceptionally pushy one myself, and I got to a point where I was about to strangle him if he told me how much more enlightened he was than everyone else one more time. :p

The thing is, self-righteous idiots have never limited themselves to any one belief system. This really shouldn't be news to anyone here. Besides the aforementioned self-righteous Buddhist idiot, I have personally met self-righteous Catholic idiots, Protestant idiots, Jewish idiots, Muslim idiots, Hindu idiots, agnostic idiots, pagan idiots, Wiccan idiots, Satanist idiots, and, yes, atheist idiots. And, to be honest, I'm a great deal less concerned about the idiots near the end of that list than the idiots at the beginning, for the simple reason that those at the beginning of the list vastly, vastly outnumber those at the end.

Proof is proven by the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses. Does the bible do any of this? Can god be proven by this method? If it can not I will not believe it.

So there is no proof in logic?

Pushy Buddhists exist, too, though they're comparatively rare. I've met one exceptionally pushy one myself, and I got to a point where I was about to strangle him if he told me how much more enlightened he was than everyone else one more time. :p

The thing is, self-righteous idiots have never limited themselves to any one belief system. This really shouldn't be news to anyone here. Besides the aforementioned self-righteous Buddhist idiot, I have personally met self-righteous Catholic idiots, Protestant idiots, Jewish idiots, Muslim idiots, Hindu idiots, agnostic idiots, pagan idiots, Wiccan idiots, Satanist idiots, and, yes, atheist idiots. And, to be honest, I'm a great deal less concerned about the idiots near the end of that list than the idiots at the beginning, for the simple reason that those at the beginning of the list vastly, vastly outnumber those at the end.

All a part of what it is to be this wonderful thing called "human". :)

So there is no proof in logic?What???? Explain in detail.

The thing is, self-righteous idiots have never limited themselves to any one belief system. This really shouldn't be news to anyone here. Besides the aforementioned self-righteous Buddhist idiot, I have personally met self-righteous Catholic idiots, Protestant idiots, Jewish idiots, Muslim idiots, Hindu idiots, agnostic idiots, pagan idiots, Wiccan idiots, Satanist idiots, and, yes, atheist idiots. And, to be honest, I'm a great deal less concerned about the idiots near the end of that list than the idiots at the beginning, for the simple reason that those at the beginning of the list vastly, vastly outnumber those at the end.

And for some others, are a great deal more concerned about the idiots near the end of that list than the idiots at the beginning. Perhaps its whose idiot it is after all.

You know what else isn't nice? Shit.

And yet we all do it. Even the Pope.

Especially The Pope, I hear he has diarrhea...

And for some others, are a great deal more concerned about the idiots near the end of that list than the idiots at the beginning. Perhaps its whose idiot it is after all.

That's because most of those people can be included at the beginning of that list.

Is it just me or are Atheists always trying to push their "Religon" on other people?
Alot of times on these boards I will say something that shows my religious beliefs and then a ton of people start trying to convince me my views are wrong.

And Whats with people sounding off that they are atheist for no reason?
A recent thread asked people whether they lieing was a sin.
Now, sin is a commonly accepeted word for a bad thing.
But many atheists decide to post saying they couldn't answer the question because they didn't think it exist or they didn't believe in it.
Those post added no value to the thread. Did they really need to toot their own horn and announce their beliefs?

I swear, I lose more Irony Meters on this site...

As a Wise man once said about proof.

"No, a proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof, and when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven"

- Jean Chrétien

As a Wise man once said about proof.

"No, a proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof, and when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven"

- Jean Chrétien
!
ANOTHER ONE! OMG! O_O

What proof, exactly? 100, 150?

Is it just me or are Atheists always trying to push their "Religon" on other people?
Alot of times on these boards I will say something that shows my religious beliefs and then a ton of people start trying to convince me my views are wrong.

--Welcome to the world of Atheism, pal - where Christians constantly feel the need to 'save' your 'soul' and when you don't want to hear it they tend to get pissy. By the way...uh, if there have been, or ever are again, someone claiming to be an Atheist and at the same time trying to push their religion on you...it's safe to say you're free to ignore them because they're completely idiotic. Atheists do NOT have religious beliefs of any kind.

As an ignostic, I think the lot of you are wasting your time of course, but this thread will top 3 bajillion pages with theists shouting "Does too" and Atheists shouting "Does not".

--Hey man, listen...before claiming to be some sort of anything at all - whether it be a Fireman, Buddhist, Teleportation Expert, or whatever...maybe Agnostic for example, try to make sure you can spell it ;)

if you see an atheist with a religion they're a buddist and they aren't pushing it on you. otherwise, feel free to mash faces.

--More correctly, if you see an Atheist with a religion, write them off as someone to be ignored, because they're about as smart as a piece of steel. You'll NEVER see an Atheist with a religion. NEVER. I repeat...you will NEVER see an Atheist with a religion - they don't exist, and if someone's trying to tell you otherwise, shoot them in the face and save the rest of the world a lot of trouble having to deal with them. These types of people aren't Atheists, they're Moronicists...those who worship Morons.

What I find fascinating, truly mind-boggling, is how people with 4 digit post counts can raise to the bait and actually attempt to debate blatantly obvious trolls. It's almost like seeing a proliferation of gun smilies among someone who isnt the greenest of noobs (and no, this is not an invitation to show off how incredibly clever you are by now posting a bunch of gun smilies because that would just be a brilliant and unique expression of how witty you are).

It's just you.

I don't give a shit what you believe.

Why wasn't this thread locked after post #3? That should have ended it all. ;)

But, since it didn't, I figure that I will go ahead and put my name forward as the new Atheist Pope. A big, extravagant hat is a MUST. I'm thinking sombrero. And a title. Funkmeister? LORD OF FUCK?! We'll work on that during the next service.

Now, if you'll all turn in your hymnals to page 138 and join me in a rousing chorus of "YOU REALLY ARE ALONE". Everyone together now!

"They say I shouldn't but I do! I feel good and so should you!
I say curse-words anyway, and skip church every Sunday!
Eat pork, screw men! Smoke dope and cheat to win!
God is a myth, so deal with it. Nobody else gives a shit."

/me wins with ascendant atheist hymn.

This isn't really a topic that anyone needs to argue over. We all have conflicts with different groups because of that reason. I'm a polytheist, branch of Onmyoudou (Jap.), and I'm constantly being hounded by Christian about my beliefs and that I'm evil and I'll go to hell, etc. So, personally, I stand on the side saying that monotheists, especially for me: Christians, force their beliefs on everyone; but again, it's only my experience. If you ask me, atheists don't force their beliefs, but defend them when someone presses a religious view on them, because they disagree; I do the same. The whole problem is that most people don't understand that people may have different views than they do. If people would get that fact through their thick skulls, we wouldn't even be talking about this.

Substitute something for facts? That's exactly atheists do - they do not know whether something exists, so they make up a fact that because they can't see it, it doesn't exist. Seriously unscientific and if scientists thought that way, we'd have hardly moved forward at all.

EDIT: aS EVIDENCED BELOW:

Well, that's not very nice either. Accurate, but unpleasant to think about.
Sorry, if you go from the position that nothing is real unless you observed it (the scientific position), you can not prove the existance of God. If you feel the existance of god, it is a medical issue, so to speak, not a physical one.

What I find fascinating, truly mind-boggling, is how people with 4 digit post counts can raise to the bait and actually attempt to debate blatantly obvious trolls. It's almost like seeing a proliferation of gun smilies among someone who isnt the greenest of noobs (and no, this is not an invitation to show off how incredibly clever you are by now posting a bunch of gun smilies because that would just be a brilliant and unique expression of how witty you are).

Why would we be here, if not for the trolls? :p

I put up with just as many p[ushy athiest as I do pushy catholics, pushy lutherans, pushy russian orthodoxy christians, mormans, prespbaterians, and jehova's witnesses.

I think I should ang up a sign on my front yard that says 'religious soliciters will be shot' even though I won't do it I will let the dog bite them...

Why can't this thread be closed :(

Not all atheists are going to hell, per Pope John Paul II. Nor are all Christians going to enter Heaven. Also, some of us prefer reincarnation, thank you very much.

Now I'm an atheist, but I'd like to think that I don't push my views on anyone. If people ask me why I don't hold any belief then I'll tell them.

On the other hand, if people go OTT with their religious self-rightseousness then I like to wind them up a little. It's gotta be done :p

What???? Explain in detail.

You defined proof as a result of the scientific method: observation, and experimentation to test hypotheses. That effectively excludes proof derived at through reason, such as in logic and mathematics. So I was just asking if you believe in those.

Not all atheists are going to hell, per Pope John Paul II. Nor are all Christians going to enter Heaven. Also, some of us prefer reincarnation, thank you very much.
!
MY GOD, THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!

A worrying number of people seem to regard any atheist who doesn't want laws to based on ancient texts or old men in silly hats as "pushy".

In the UK, Church attendence is falling rapidly as people vote with their feet, but the government has crammed more religion into the running of the country than ever before. State-schools are being set up which teach Creationism as science and can reject students or teachers for their religious beliefs (or lack thereof), we still have bishops in the House of Lords, the government has refused to publicly support freedom of speech when it's considered to be blasphemous, and religious groups recently tried to gain the right to opt out of any law they took a dislike to.

And people say we're the intolerant ones. :rolleyes:

I will say something that shows my religious beliefs and then a ton of people start trying to convince me my views are wrong.

They are.

--
Anzan Chotan

!
MY GOD, THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!

*starts to run away, stops, thinks, turns around*

Wait, who's everywhere? Depending on who they are, I might want to run toward them instead of away from them. Are they, you know... *whispers* holding...?

Is it just me or are Atheists always trying to push their "Religon" on other people?
Alot of times on these boards I will say something that shows my religious beliefs and then a ton of people start trying to convince me my views are wrong.

And Whats with people sounding off that they are atheist for no reason?
A recent thread asked people whether they lieing was a sin.
Now, sin is a commonly accepeted word for a bad thing.
But many atheists decide to post saying they couldn't answer the question because they didn't think it exist or they didn't believe in it.
Those post added no value to the thread. Did they really need to toot their own horn and announce their beliefs?

People who live in stained glass cathedrals shouldn't throw the first, nor subsequent, stones.

Is it just me or are Atheists always trying to push their "Religon" on other people?
Alot of times on these boards I will say something that shows my religious beliefs and then a ton of people start trying to convince me my views are wrong.

And Whats with people sounding off that they are atheist for no reason?
A recent thread asked people whether they lieing was a sin.
Now, sin is a commonly accepeted word for a bad thing.
But many atheists decide to post saying they couldn't answer the question because they didn't think it exist or they didn't believe in it.
Those post added no value to the thread. Did they really need to toot their own horn and announce their beliefs?
Yep! Totally! Just as evangelical and illogical as the maddest Fundimentalist! Too shit scared to look at the evidence and say "I don't know!"

I am terribly aghast, I cannot believe this slip under my radar for a good 16 pages. It's a damn shame I didn't get my chance to tear into this ignorance sooner and lift the Imagined Burden of "God" from the souls of these poor delusional people and spare them the life time of praying to the invisible man in the sky for no other reason than because they were deceived into thinking that there is something beyond the eternal dirt nap in you local cemetery.

Is it just me or are Atheists always trying to push their "Religon" on other people?

Oh, you mean like Christian missionaries have been doing for centuries since John the Baptist? :rolleyes:

There are branches of Christianity which make it the believer's/follower's moral duty to preach the word of "God" to save non-believers from the fiery belly of eternal damnation. This is far more pushy than an atheist saying that God is a load of bullcrap and that it's an exercise in futility to believe in something that is non-existent.

Alot of times on these boards I will say something that shows my religious beliefs and then a ton of people start trying to convince me my views are wrong.

It's called a "debate"; grow a thicker skin or leave. Just don't let the door hit you on the way out.

As you are free to try and convince me and my godless brethren as to why we're going to hell for not believing in "God" we can tell you why you're not going to heaven or hell. It's a two way street.

And Whats with people sounding off that they are atheist for no reason?

What about the religious who cannot justify their beliefs beyond the Bible?

A recent thread asked people whether they lieing was a sin.

And according to the Bible it is, but it doesn't mean the rest of the world will believe the same thing. After all, a lie is only as bad as the crime it's covering, so it's relative to the truth it's covering.

After all, you could lie to spare someone's feelings and that isn't a sin, but if you lied about murdering someone, you've committed two sins, one of homicide and one of deceit.

Now, sin is a commonly accepeted word for a bad thing.

Not according to most people. It depends on the context.

But many atheists decide to post saying they couldn't answer the question because they didn't think it exist or they didn't believe in it.

Because it was asking the question in the Biblical sense, meaning in relation to divine law based upon "God's" arbitrary rules.

Those post added no value to the thread. Did they really need to toot their own horn and announce their beliefs?

Your posts about your religious beliefs add no value to this forum but we let you post them anyway.

And do Christians/(insert religious group here) need to toot their horn?

As a Wise man once said about proof.

"No, a proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof, and when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven"

- Jean Chrétien

I thought we weren't talking about golf balls. ;)

This isn't really a topic that anyone needs to argue over. We all have conflicts with different groups because of that reason. I'm a polytheist, branch of Onmyoudou (Jap.), and I'm constantly being hounded by Christian about my beliefs and that I'm evil and I'll go to hell, etc. So, personally, I stand on the side saying that monotheists, especially for me: Christians, force their beliefs on everyone; but again, it's only my experience. If you ask me, atheists don't force their beliefs, but defend them when someone presses a religious view on them, because they disagree; I do the same. The whole problem is that most people don't understand that people may have different views than they do. If people would get that fact through their thick skulls, we wouldn't even be talking about this.

There, proof from a polytheist. Atheists aren't the biggest assholes after all. :D

I do agree that Christians are pushy, some more than others. The evangelical brand are the pushiest of all. They think everyone wants to hear their bullshit. But we don't. The same way that Jews don't want the Catholic church to pray for their souls... etc...

Remember, Athieism is a faith! There is no evidence for God and no evidence against God. Have no faith, say "Who knows, I'll find out when I die! (Or not!)"

Yep! Totally! Just as evangelical and illogical as the maddest Fundimentalist! Too shit scared to look at the evidence and say "I don't know!"

Oh really? When was the last time somebody flew a plane into a building in the name of Athe, or blew up an abortion clinic because they felt it was what 'nothing' wanted them to do?

Remember, Athieism is a faith! There is no evidence for God and no evidence against God. Have no faith, say "Who knows, I'll find out when I die! (Or not!)"

Yes that's right, Atheism is a faith. Just like bald is a hair colour and 'not collecting stamps' is a hobby. :rolleyes:

There's plenty of evidence, what we lack is proof.

Is it just me or are Atheists always trying to push their "Religon" on other people?

When we start executing you for your athiest-less ways, let's talk.

I'm kind of bored of this 'don't-persecute-me-just-because-I'm-christian' crap... you guys outnumber us by a huge amount, and dominate politics by basing your voting on your religion. We get harrassed in the street... hell, you even come to our damn houses to try to peddle your drug.

And you are whining because you are expected to provide evidence for something on a debate forum?

The scientists say that we live in a universe that hangs like a sheet with an infinate number of others in the 11th dimension! Every time two sheets smack together, a new universe is created. Athieism is like saying that you know FOR CERTAIN what exists outside of this. Same goes for Religion. And when the scientific explanation for the cosmos is that fucking weird, God sounds pretty normal!:rolleyes:

The scientists say that we live in a universe that hangs like a sheet with an infinate number of others in the 11th dimension! Every time two sheets smack together, a new universe is created. Athieism is like saying that you know FOR CERTAIN what exists outside of this. Same goes for Religion. And when the scientific explanation for the cosmos is that fucking weird, God sounds pretty normal!:rolleyes:

Are you going to respond to anyone or are you just going to carry on spouting nonsense to yourself?

Is it just me or are Atheists always trying to push their "Religon" on other people?
Alot of times on these boards I will say something that shows my religious beliefs and then a ton of people start trying to convince me my views are wrong.

And Whats with people sounding off that they are atheist for no reason?
A recent thread asked people whether they lieing was a sin.
Now, sin is a commonly accepeted word for a bad thing.
But many atheists decide to post saying they couldn't answer the question because they didn't think it exist or they didn't believe in it.
Those post added no value to the thread. Did they really need to toot their own horn and announce their beliefs?

This is a discussion board, so if you post your views, you can count on them being discussed, by atheists, religious people and others. I can't count how many times I've been attacked for being agnostic, and how many people tried to convert me to their particular brand of religion. That's life, get on with it.

On the idea that sin is a word for a bad thing, it's not. It's a word for acting against what is prescribed by your religion. As such I, as an agnostic, don't regard anything as sin or sinful. I may think some things are wrong, but that doesn't make them a sin. It makes them morally objectionable, or in certain cases a crime, but not sin.

This is a discussion board, so if you post your views, you can count on them being discussed, by atheists, religious people and others. I can't count how many times I've been attacked for being agnostic, and how many people tried to convert me to their particular brand of religion. That's life, get on with it.

Hey, get off my fence! Bad agnotistic, bad! Geez... now it's all sideways... :)

Yes that's right, Atheism is a faith. Just like bald is a hair colour and 'not collecting stamps' is a hobby. :rolleyes:

There's plenty of evidence, what we lack is proof.

If you can hand me one iota of posative proof for the existance/non existance of god..
The whole point is that god , if he exists, is outside of Human research. Some of the latest science is seeming to point towards a soul! The human ID it seems, is somewere in your body, not necessaryly in your brain and not necessaryly in these dimensions! Bit thought provoking that!

Oh really? When was the last time somebody flew a plane into a building in the name of Athe, or blew up an abortion clinic because they felt it was what 'nothing' wanted them to do? Er, did'nt The athiest Soviet Union drag us thru 40 years of cold war?

Hey, get off my fence! Bad agnotistic, bad! Geez... now it's all sideways... :)

I like sideways :D

Er, did'nt The athiest Soviet Union drag us thru 40 years of cold war?

Right. Cause all they ever wanted to do was convert people to the true faith of atheism. Sure.

If you can hand me one iota of posative proof for the existance/non existance of god..

Cute. I see you're running away from your claim that there's no 'evidence' and now you're asking for 'proof', despite the fact that I've already explained that there can be no absolute proof.

The whole point is that god , if he exists, is outside of Human research.

That might be the case for a Deist watchmaker-God of the kind favoured by Enlightenment intellectuals but it's not consistent with the kind of God which most believers envisage. They believe in a personal God who interacts with the Universe and such alleged actions are open to research.

Some of the latest science is seeming to point towards a soul! The human ID it seems, is somewere in your body, not necessaryly in your brain and not necessaryly in these dimensions! Bit thought provoking that!

What do you mean by 'the human ID'? Could you link to some of this research?

The scientists say that we live in a universe that hangs like a sheet with an infinate number of others in the 11th dimension! Every time two sheets smack together, a new universe is created. Athieism is like saying that you know FOR CERTAIN what exists outside of this. Same goes for Religion. And when the scientific explanation for the cosmos is that fucking weird, God sounds pretty normal!:rolleyes:

1) Not all scientists are Atheists.

2) Not all scientists say anything about 11th dimensions or infinite realities.

3) I'm both an Atheist, and a scientist (by inclination, and by profession), and I make no conjectures about the 'ultimate state of reality'.

4) Atheism isn't saying anything for certain, necessarily. For most Atheists, it is more a matter of skepticism than anything like conviction.

Er, did'nt The athiest Soviet Union drag us thru 40 years of cold war?

The cold war was a bipolar conflict.

Right. Cause all they ever wanted to do was convert people to the true faith of atheism. Sure.

ER,yeah! That why they stuck so many priests in thr gulags!