NationStates Jolt Archive

9th grade students asked for permission to read, at an open-mic session, a selection from Eve Ensler's "The Vagina Monologues." They got it, with the pre-condition that they, get this, not utter the word vagina aloud. (http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703060363) So they did anyway--but only this passage:
My short skirt is a liberation
flag in the women’s army
I declare these streets, any streets
my vagina’s country.
The horror! The anguish! That a child might learn the actual name of a body part instead of some ridiculous euphemism like "hoo-hah."

The girls read that line together as a sign of unity, but I wonder what would have happened if they'd shoved the restriction right back in the principal's face and replaced vagina with something a bit more rude like maybe pussy or ****. Think he might have completely shit his pants then?

Bah. Maud Lebowski best described this type of person: My art has been commended as being strongly vaginal which bothers some men. The word itself makes some men uncomfortable. Vagina.

http://www.queenofwands.net/d/20040121.html

At this rate, banned words will eliminate most of human language.

Since you can take any ordinary word (let's use the example, "gay") and give it another meaning without consulting with the government, eventually, any and every word can end up banned - for any reason the government sees fit.

I've got an idea - tell kids at school to have a speaking boycott, because they don't want to accidentally say anything that anyone under any circumstances might find offensive.

Sort of like "The Knights Who No Longer Say NI!"

The horror! The anguish! That a child might learn the actual name of a body part instead of some ridiculous euphemism like "hoo-hah."

The girls read that line together as a sign of unity, but I wonder what would have happened if they'd shoved the restriction right back in the principal's face and replaced vagina with something a bit more rude like maybe pussy or ****. Think he might have completely shit his pants then?

I think they should've used "pink taco" instead.

At this rate, banned words will eliminate most of human language.

Since you can take any ordinary word (let's use the example, "gay") and give it another meaning without consulting with the government,

except France, but that only applies to Government functions and the media.

It's far too late for that girl now, sh'es doomed to the life of a cheap crack whore.

http://www.queenofwands.net/d/20040121.html

That is fucking brilliant, even though I'm likely to be humming that damn song the rest of the day.

The horror! The anguish! That a child might learn the actual name of a body part instead of some ridiculous euphemism like "hoo-hah."
http://www.news4jax.com/2007/0207/10948367_240X180.jpg

:rolleyes: all this over a bloody word

:rolleyes: all this over a bloody word

teeheehee[/childish]

:rolleyes: all this over a bloody word

And a bloody Correct word for a body part that 50% of the country has.

http://www.news4jax.com/2007/0207/10948367_240X180.jpg

Yeah, the people who objected to the name relented after they were subjected to much public ridicule and the theater changed the name back.

How old is a 9th grade student in the US?

teeheehee[/childish]

And a bloody Correct word for a body part that 50% of the country has.

i once got sent to the principal for using bloody, he ask where i learn it i told the bible

I think they should've used "pink taco" instead.

I like mine with honey. I wanted to try wasabi once, but was disallowed :(

How old is a 9th grade student in the US?

Roughly 13-14. At most two years from losing their virginity in the back seat of some car.

I like mine with honey. I wanted to try wasabi once, but was disallowed :(

Ouch!

I bet every woman who reads your post unconsciously crosses her legs. :p

That girl is going to get very rich after the lawsuit.

Roughly 13-14. At most two years from losing their virginity in the back seat of some car.

I think you're being kind.

At this rate, banned words will eliminate most of human language.

Since you can take any ordinary word (let's use the example, "gay") and give it another meaning without consulting with the government, eventually, any and every word can end up banned - for any reason the government sees fit.

I've got an idea - tell kids at school to have a speaking boycott, because they don't want to accidentally say anything that anyone under any circumstances might find offensive.

Sort of like "The Knights Who No Longer Say NI!"

Major difference between the word gay being used to harm others, and using the word vagina to show how we shouldnt be afraid of what sex is all about...big difference.

How about the fact that vagina is a body part, like tibia or cervix? Shouldn't that be a major consideration?

Mmm...

*Starts writing his book, The Tibia Monologues.*

Major difference between the word gay being used to harm others, and using the word vagina to show how we shouldnt be afraid of what sex is all about...big difference.

How about the fact that vagina is a body part, like tibia or cervix? Shouldn't that be a major consideration?

Mmm...

*Starts writing his book, The Tibia Monologues.*

You're gonna get "tibia" banned :rolleyes:

Mmm...

*Starts writing his book, The Tibia Monologues.*

Doesn't have quite the same zing. How about a male version: the vas deferens monologues?

How about the fact that vagina is a body part, like tibia or cervix? Shouldn't that be a major consideration?

Of course not. It's a shameful body part that should not be mentioned in polite company. Children are far too innocent to hear about it. In fact, I think we should start instituting a requirement for all young girls and women to wear chastity belts. They shouldn't be allowed to stray, you know. They might have sex without intending to have children of their own, and we can't have that.

good. she knew the rules yet she still wanted to push her luck. When they say don't say it, here's an idea, dont say it! I would have expelled her on stupidity alone.

Of course not. It's a shameful body part that should not be mentioned in polite company. Children are far too innocent to hear about it. In fact, I think we should start instituting a requirement for all young girls and women to wear chastity belts. They shouldn't be allowed to stray, you know. They might have sex without intending to have children of their own, and we can't have that.

That's an interesting point. How old were you when you learned the names of body parts? I'm having trouble actually remembering--my parents were very anti-euphemism when it came to that sort of thing. Probably 3 or 4--I was like that kid from Kindergarten Cop who went around saying "Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina!"

That's an interesting point. How old were you when you learned the names of body parts? I'm having trouble actually remembering--my parents were very anti-euphemism when it came to that sort of thing. Probably 3 or 4--I was like that kid from Kindergarten Cop who went around saying "Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina!"

Younger than 13 but older than you.

good. she knew the rules yet she still wanted to push her luck. When they say don't say it, here's an idea, dont say it! I would have expelled her on stupidity alone.

Your hatred of the very notion of woman rights is showing. If you were a true muslim I'd get worried.

That's an interesting point. How old were you when you learned the names of body parts? I'm having trouble actually remembering--my parents were very anti-euphemism when it came to that sort of thing. Probably 3 or 4--I was like that kid from Kindergarten Cop who went around saying "Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina!"

I learned them when I was about ten months old. I started talking when I was ten and a half months old.

I advanced very quickly for my age. Had I not been lazy in school I could have easily graduated high school when I was sixteen. But, unfortunately, I had a fatal flaw: emotional immaturity. Always such an easy target for bullying and hating...it was ridiculous.

On a more serious note, I think everyone should stop taking the tack that children are innocent and should be protected. Should they be kept from hearing stuff that might influance how they think towards a more hateful end, such as hate speech? Yes, until they're old enough to recognize that kind of thinking is wrong. But should we hide things like penises and vaginas? No, of course not. They have them too, you know.

good. she knew the rules yet she still wanted to push her luck. When they say don't say it, here's an idea, dont say it! I would have expelled her on stupidity alone.

Remember that when some dumb-ass teacher tells you not to say the word "allah" at school and suspends you when you defy the order.

Remember that when some dumb-ass teacher tells you not to say the word "allah" at school and suspends you when you defy the order.

No, because then it's religious discrimination. I don't agree with suspending a girl for saying vagina, but this isn't an appropriate analogy in my opinion.

Shhh, if we don't let them find out about the word they might not notice they have one and won't fall victim to teh ebil sex!!11!

No, because then it's religious discrimination. I don't agree with suspending a girl for saying vagina, but this isn't an appropriate analogy in my opinion.

Gender discrimination is just as bad as religious discrimination.

<--- thinks back to 6th grade health class where she had to label a diagram of the female reproductive system and wonders what the hell happened between 1980 and 2007...

No, because then it's religious discrimination. I don't agree with suspending a girl for saying vagina, but this isn't an appropriate analogy in my opinion.
My point was that Soviestan was saying the girl deserved to be suspended for defying authority, because defying the authority was, in his view, stupid. My argument is that defying authority is not necessarily stupid, and that an empathetic person can see situations when his or her situation might be analagous to that of another.

Gender discrimination is just as bad as religious discrimination.

It isn't gender discrimination. She would be in the same place if she substituted vagina with penis.

Vagina.

My point was that Soviestan was saying the girl deserved to be suspended for defying authority, because defying the authority was, in his view, stupid. My argument is that defying authority is not necessarily stupid, and that an empathetic person can see situations when his or her situation might be analagous to that of another.

Surely the school has the right to define what words are and aren't acceptable on its grounds.

No one is going to be able to say anything anymore without punishment soon. Anything even slightly "offensive" or "dirty" will get you in trouble.

And some Americans try to claim that we are the most sinful nation on the planet. What a joke. :rolleyes:

Roughly 13-14. At most two years from losing their virginity in the back seat of some car.

Thanks. Personally I'd be worried if 13-14 year olds didn't know what a vagina was. :p

No, because then it's religious discrimination. I don't agree with suspending a girl for saying vagina, but this isn't an appropriate analogy in my opinion.

I personally worship the vagina . . .

Surely the school has the right to define what words are and aren't acceptable on its grounds.

Not really--Tinker v Board of Education ruled that students do not automatically cede their rights at the schoolhouse door. But even if the school has that right, this is a stupid rule and one that should be defied. Vagina is not a dirty word--it's an anatomical term. How the hell is the school going to teach sex ed if they're not using "vagina?" Are they going to resort to euphemisms as well?

Still, I think the girls made one mistake--they should have agreed to the restriction, and then replaced vagina with pussy or ****, and then screamed it as loud as they could into the microphone.

It isn't gender discrimination. She would be in the same place if she substituted vagina with penis.

It's gender discrimination against both genders. Humanity discrimination, if you want. It discriminates against body parts. It's just as bad, it's just as ridiculous.

Your hatred of the very notion of woman rights is showing. If you were a true muslim I'd get worried.

Please spare me the "I'm not Muslim enough" talk ok. This has absolutely nothing to do with women rights or Islam. I don't why everything I say on here goes back to Islam even when its completely off topic. If a guy had wanted to read it and the teacher said don't say it or else, and he says it,then sorry he should face his punishment too.

I prefer the word '****'. It gets to the point and seperates the rabble. Say **** in polite conversation sometime. Watch the expressions around you. The grimaces and uncomfortable shifting will be rewarding enough to make you want to run out and buy a megaphone.

The entire defense of these girls should, from start to finish, consist of: "I have a vagina. I have a leg. I have ears. So do you. They're just body parts. I have toes, I have elbows, and I most definately have a pussy, err... Vagina. Vaginavaginavagina. And so does your mom. Thank you."

Props on the Maude Lebowski quote. Vagina.

good for them! i love spunky girls. its a good time to learn that there are things worth being ohmygod! suspended for. i hope it sets them onto a life time of political protest.

*applauds*

Please spare me the "I'm not Muslim enough" talk ok. This has absolutely nothing to do with women rights or Islam. I don't why everything I say on here goes back to Islam even its completely off topic. If a guy had wanted to read it and the teacher said don't say it or else, and he says it,then sorry he should face his punishment too.

I'm not saying you're not muslim enough, I'm saying you completely miss the points behind the Quran.

And when confronted with an unfair rule, it's your right and DUTY to defy it.

Please spare me the "I'm not Muslim enough" talk ok. This has absolutely nothing to do with women rights or Islam. I don't why everything I say on here goes back to Islam even when its completely off topic. If a guy had wanted to read it and the teacher said don't say it or else, and he says it,then sorry he should face his punishment too.

The people who told them not to were idiots. They were completely right in not following their orders.

<shakes head sadly>

Suspending people for saying a medical term. How lame is that?

The United States is so utterly Puritanical, so excessively Victorian in it's outlook about sex and the human body, that I really worry for my fellow citizen's mental health.

I wonder sometimes how I sound so completely unlike the sad majority of my fellow citizens, maybe I'm an alien planted here. What did I do in a past life to deserve this?

Censorship, an ugly subject supported by ugly people.

V A G I N A

There. I said it, too. :p

Well, you typed it anyway. You did use more than one hand to type it, right. ;)

Please spare me the "I'm not Muslim enough" talk ok. This has absolutely nothing to do with women rights or Islam. I don't why everything I say on here goes back to Islam even when its completely off topic. If a guy had wanted to read it and the teacher said don't say it or else, and he says it,then sorry he should face his punishment too.

I agree with soviestan. If you have a problem with the rule, don't defy it. Take action else where, such as a school board meeting, or in a court hearing, but they disobeyed and did it on purpose. That's the problem. They blatanly did went against the rules.

V A G I N A

There. I said it, too. :p

The people who told them not to were idiots. They were completely right in not following their orders.

The pupils do not have the right to decide which rules are idiotic and don't have to be followed. That way lies chaos

I agree with sovietstan. If you have a problem with the rule, don't defy it. Take action else where, such as a school board meeting, or in a court hearing, but they disobeyed and did it on purpose. That's the problem. They blatanly did it.

and you have a problem with that? they did the deed and they are taking the consequences. GOOD FOR THEM!

The pupils do not have the right to decide which rules are idiotic and don't have to be followed. That way lies chaos

pffft. stupid rulings are meant to be defied.

What a ****.

Why were they idiots? I think they were right, that sort of language should not be used in schools. The way they defied them was completely wrong.What sort of language? Anatomical terms for body parts? Are we supposed to refer to tibias as arm-bones now? I can't even believe we've descended to this level of stupidity in this conversation.

Why were they idiots? I think they were right, that sort of language should not be used in schools. The way they defied them was completely wrong.

and here is where I disagree with Soviestan. The language is not bad persay, as its the correct term for a female sexual organ. It just the way they defied authority.

The people who told them not to were idiots. They were completely right in not following their orders.

Why were they idiots? I think they were right, that sort of language should not be used in schools. The way they defied them was completely wrong.

pffft. stupid rulings are meant to be defied.


And what is to be considered stupid rulings? Say someone believes that Brown V. BOE was a stupid ruling and started school segregation back up. Would you back that too?

I agree with soviestan. If you have a problem with the rule, don't defy it. Take action else where, such as a school board meeting, or in a court hearing, but they disobeyed and did it on purpose. That's the problem. They blatanly did went against the rules.

So did Gandhi.

pffft. stupid rulings are meant to be defied.

That would be defending every breaking of school rulings (and other rulings) that's ever happened simply because the person breaking them thought they were stupid. If you make rules optional then they're pointless.


So did Gandhi.
With Gandhi all other methods had been exhausted first. Had these girls gone via the alternative routes of appealing to various authorities first then they might be justified. As they didn't...

Why were they idiots? I think they were right, that sort of language should not be used in schools. The way they defied them was completely wrong.

It's a MEDICAL TERM!!!

So did Gandhi.

But I think Ghandi, and most other social figures are different though. These girls fought back just to fight back and disobey. People like Ghandi fought back because it was the right thing to do. People's lives stood in the balance. I'm sure if the girls didn't say vagina, the world wouldn't end or no one would have been shot, so I am sure they had nothing going for them except "Oh I am t3h r3|3e1zzz!!!11"

That would be defending every breaking of school rulings (and other rulings) that's ever happened simply because the person breaking them thought they were stupid. If you make rules optional then they're pointless.

ya think?

geeez school is full of stupid rules and stupid rulings. if students obeyed them all the administration would just put on more.

its only school and its only suspension. its a great time to figure out that some punishments just arent all that bad. pointless rules deserve to be flouted. the earlier you figure that out the more fun your life is going to be.

9th grade students asked for permission to read, at an open-mic session, a selection from Eve Ensler's "The Vagina Monologues." They got it, with the pre-condition that they, get this, not utter the word vagina aloud. (http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703060363) So they did anyway--but only this passage:

The horror! The anguish! That a child might learn the actual name of a body part instead of some ridiculous euphemism like "hoo-hah."

The girls read that line together as a sign of unity, but I wonder what would have happened if they'd shoved the restriction right back in the principal's face and replaced vagina with something a bit more rude like maybe pussy or ****. Think he might have completely shit his pants then?

Bah. Maud Lebowski best described this type of person:

These girls should not have been suspended at all! SUE SUE SUE

And what is to be considered stupid rulings? Say someone believes that Brown V. BOE was a stupid ruling and started school segregation back up. Would you back that too?

part of growing up is figuring out just that.

then say it in a hospital.

So, if you were in a place and were forbidden to say "Allah" there, you'd be ok with it.

Very well.

What sort of language? Anatomical terms for body parts? Are we supposed to refer to tibias as arm-bones now? I can't even believe we've descended to this level of stupidity in this conversation.

They aren't just any words. Those words shouldn't just be thrown around and in imo they have no place in school outside of a health class.

These girls should not have been suspended at all! SUE SUE SUE

I actually agree with you! :eek:

It's a MEDICAL TERM!!!

then say it in a hospital.

They aren't just any words. Those words shouldn't just be thrown around and in imo they have no place in school outside of a health class.

"Allah" isn't just any word. It shouldn't just be thrown around and has no place outside a mosque.

Game.

Set.

Match.

What sort of language? Anatomical terms for body parts? Are we supposed to refer to tibias as arm-bones now? I can't even believe we've descended to this level of stupidity in this conversation.

referring to tibias as arm-bones would just be wrong.

I am impressed by the slavering devotion to "the rules" exhibited by many in this thread. It makes me wonder how many people here have actually attended schools, that they possess such idealized views of school administration. There are plenty of shitty rules that are passed in schools, and students who reject those rules should be applauded.

High school students are nearly adults. If we ever want them to actually be adults, we might want to start expecting them to show adult critical thinking skills, instead of training them to be mindless drones who obey whatever The Authority tells them.

then say it in a hospital.

Yes, I'm sure that doctors (many of whom deal with that certain anatomical feature on a regular basis) will quail with terror when you dare to say its name out loud. :rolleyes:

referring to tibias as arm-bones would just be wrong.
You're right. I'm a dumb-ass sometimes. :headbang:

"Allah" isn't just any word. It shouldn't just be thrown around and has no place outside a mosque.

Game.

Set.

Match.

Words aren't just words either. They shouldn't be used outside of an Enlish language lesson. :p

You're right. I'm a dumb-ass sometimes. :headbang:

i know i shouldnt have done it but it was just too funny to be able to say "its wrong".

You're right. I'm a dumb-ass sometimes. :headbang:

No, according to Soviestan, you're a dumb-tushie.

:D

Words aren't just words either. They shouldn't be used outside of an Enlish language lesson. :p

:eek: :D :p :eek: !!!

:( :) :D :D?

:D

That's an interesting point. How old were you when you learned the names of body parts? I'm having trouble actually remembering--my parents were very anti-euphemism when it came to that sort of thing. Probably 3 or 4--I was like that kid from Kindergarten Cop who went around saying "Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina!"

Makes 2 of us though I did that at day care and ya know what? No one got in trouble. Of course, this was in the mid 1980s.

referring to tibias as arm-bones would just be wrong.

Especially since the tibia is a leg bone (as I think Inc got already).

I am impressed by the slavering devotion to "the rules" exhibited by many in this thread. It makes me wonder how many people here have actually attended schools, that they possess such idealized views of school administration. There are plenty of shitty rules that are passed in schools, and students who reject those rules should be applauded.

High school students are nearly adults. If we ever want them to actually be adults, we might want to start expecting them to show adult critical thinking skills, instead of training them to be mindless drones who obey whatever The Authority tells them.

that would have been my point if i had been smart enough to make it so well!

the fear of "it will go on your permanent record" is so pathetic.

I am impressed by the slavering devotion to "the rules" exhibited by many in this thread. It makes me wonder how many people here have actually attended schools, that they possess such idealized views of school administration. There are plenty of shitty rules that are passed in schools, and students who reject those rules should be applauded.

High school students are nearly adults. If we ever want them to actually be adults, we might want to start expecting them to show adult critical thinking skills, instead of training them to be mindless drones who obey whatever The Authority tells them.

I'm not saying that the rules weren't stupid. I'm suggesting that the school has a right to be stupid, and the enforcement of stupid rules is better than the principle of letting students decide what rules they want to follow. The students should have at least tried to go down the official route before jumping straight for the civil disobedience. Like asking your democratic representative to do something before jumping straight to breaking a law you consider stupid.

:eek: :D :p :eek: !!!

:( :) :D :D?

:D

:fluffle:

No, because then it's religious discrimination. I don't agree with suspending a girl for saying vagina, but this isn't an appropriate analogy in my opinion.

Actually, it wouldn't has even Christians can't talk about God in school unless it is a private school.

But I think Ghandi, and most other social figures are different though. These girls fought back just to fight back and disobey. People like Ghandi fought back because it was the right thing to do.

They fought back because they did not feel that the school had the right to make them or their classmates feel ashamed of a defining part of their own body.

Call me a morally debased individual, but I don't personally believe that the school system should be in the business of instilling shame in our children or in making our young feel that their bodies are somehow 'dirty'.

I can see no positive aspect in preventing someone from using the correct medical term for a body part. I can see no positive aspect in telling a child that it is morally wrong to use the correct medical term for a body part. The only effect in telling a girl that she is not allowed to say the word 'vagina' is to attempt to instill shame in her and her collegaues - which is a harmful and hateful thing to do.

These girls stood up against a form of hatred. They stood up against those who would have them feel ashamed even of their own bodies.

Yes, I'm sure that doctors (many of whom deal with that certain anatomical feature on a regular basis) will quail with terror when you dare to say its name out loud. :rolleyes:

But... we can't allow this horrid word to be mentioned in school! Think of the mental scarring we would leave on our children if we allowed them to hear such a word like... vagina. :eek:

But... we can't allow this horror to continue! think of the mental scarring we would leave on our children if we allowed them to hear such a word like vagina. :eek:

ARGH!!!! You said the word!!!

Brain.... melting....

Inhibitions...vanishing....

Becoming a.... lesbian.....

*dies of terror*

Actually, it wouldn't has even Christians can't talk about God in school unless it is a private school.

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

Makes 2 of us though I did that at day care and ya know what? No one got in trouble. Of course, this was in the mid 1980s.
Makes three of us.

When my mother was pregnant with my brother, we went to this class for young children who are going to have new baby brothers or sisters. It was supposed to be a way to make the older sibling more comfortable with the changes in Mommy and in the family. However, I ended up causing a bit of a problem when I continually corrected the teacher.

"So there is a baby in Mommy's tummy..."
"NOT in her tummy! In her uterus!!"

"...And the doctors will help get the baby out..."
"Through her vagina!"

Then I decided to explain to the kids next to me how babies get in Mommy's uterus to begin with. Refreshments were served as a very hasty diversion before I could use any more "nasty" words.

I am impressed by the slavering devotion to "the rules" exhibited by many in this thread. It makes me wonder how many people here have actually attended schools, that they possess such idealized views of school administration. There are plenty of shitty rules that are passed in schools, and students who reject those rules should be applauded.

High school students are nearly adults. If we ever want them to actually be adults, we might want to start expecting them to show adult critical thinking skills, instead of training them to be mindless drones who obey whatever The Authority tells them.

Of course there are plenty of crappy rules. I went to public school in southern illinois. Not only was the school itself crappy, but many of the rules were too. But I obeyed the rules. Why? Because I am only at school a portion of my day, during that time I should be expected to follow their rules. Its their facility, they can make what ever rule they want as long as it doesn't physically harm anyone. When that happens, then I'd agree that the rules would have to be broken. But not saying vagina during a reading of vagina monologues? I think there are more important tragedies in the world.

Then I decided to explain to the kids next to me how babies get in Mommy's uterus to begin with. Refreshments were served as a very hasty diversion before I could use any more "nasty" words.

I find it amazing in an era of ever increasing body image issues that young boys and girls are taught to be ashamed of their bodies. And even more amazing that the majority of society support this practice - viewing the opposite as immoral.

But not saying vagina during a reading of vagina monologues? I think there are more important tragedies in the world.

Have you seen the vagina monologues?

High school students are nearly adults. If we ever want them to actually be adults, we might want to start expecting them to show adult critical thinking skills, instead of training them to be mindless drones who obey whatever The Authority tells them.

You do realise that this is exactly the point of high school?

Public schools are run by the government. Thus, they obey a government-written curriculum, and government-written rules. Obviously, the government would do whatever it legally can do to ensure that the students such schools produce will remain loyal to the government, including teaching them conformity and absolute fidelity to the rules. Encouraging "critical thinking" and "independence" means, in the long run, encouraging people who could put the government and ruling authorities out of power, and no sane government wants to do that.

As for propagating more government officials and followers? That duty is, of course, given to the private schools, which are usually priced such that only the wealthy -- again, government supporters -- can attend. Thus, people like that will be taught leadership and critical thinking and the like, in the hope that someday they'll follow in their predecessors' footsteps and either support, or rule, the continuing system of government.

I'm not saying that the rules weren't stupid. I'm suggesting that the school has a right to be stupid, and the enforcement of stupid rules is better than the principle of letting students decide what rules they want to follow.

Schools are meant to educate the young and teach them to think. Given this, allowing schools to be stupid is a crime against children.

I'm not saying that the rules weren't stupid. I'm suggesting that the school has a right to be stupid, and the enforcement of stupid rules is better than the principle of letting students decide what rules they want to follow. The students should have at least tried to go down the official route before jumping straight for the civil disobedience. Like asking your democratic representative to do something before jumping straight to breaking a law you consider stupid.
Meh. I don't much care for time-wasting and pandering to morons. If the school was stupid enough to ban "vagina," then I support any student who wants to ignore that rule.

It's just like if the principal told the kids, "You can't use the word 'Christianity,' because it might offend some people." Bullshit. Use the word. If the principal is stupid enough to try to give you problems about it, he'll be digging his own grave.

Schools are meant to educate the young and teach them to think.

Only in theory. In practice, the purpose of schools is to educate the young and teach them to think what the administration (federal government, principal, school board) wants them to think.

Of course there are plenty of crappy rules. I went to public school in southern illinois. Not only was the school itself crappy, but many of the rules were too. But I obeyed the rules. Why? Because I am only at school a portion of my day, during that time I should be expected to follow their rules. Its their facility, they can make what ever rule they want as long as it doesn't physically harm anyone. When that happens, then I'd agree that the rules would have to be broken. But not saying vagina during a reading of vagina monologues? I think there are more important tragedies in the world.

live a little, zilam. life is full of people trying to tie you down with stupid rules. the sooner you learn which need to be obeyed and which need to be flouted, the better your life wiill be.

"Allah" isn't just any word. It shouldn't just be thrown around and has no place outside a mosque.

Game.

Set.

Match.

Hear Hear!!!

Actually, it wouldn't has even Christians can't talk about God in school unless it is a private school.

That's not true. I talked about God all the time in High school. Im even taking a second minor in religious studies at my state funded UNI. So, thats no entirely correct.

Schools are meant to educate the young and teach them to think. Given this, allowing schools to be stupid is a crime against children.

Not necessarily. I don't know the exact school system in the USA, but I'm sure their must be authorities/governors/etc that they could and should have appealed to. They jumped straight to the end of the line with direct disobedience, what I'm saying they should have done is gone down official channels first.


live a little, zilam. life is full of people trying to tie you down with stupid rules. the sooner you learn which need to be obeyed and which need to be flouted, the better your life wiill be.
So if I come to the opinion that a ban on punching other children is a "stupid rule" I'd be in the right to be punching them?

I personally find your little show to be disguisting(excuse my language). Why do you get some sick joy out of hurting the innocence of young children?Where is your sense of morals or decency?

You do realise that she was also a young child at the time, correct?

(This was a class for young children, remember...)

Makes three of us.

When my mother was pregnant with my brother, we went to this class for young children who are going to have new baby brothers or sisters. It was supposed to be a way to make the older sibling more comfortable with the changes in Mommy and in the family. However, I ended up causing a bit of a problem when I continually corrected the teacher.

"So there is a baby in Mommy's tummy..."
"NOT in her tummy! In her uterus!!"

"...And the doctors will help get the baby out..."
"Through her vagina!"

Then I decided to explain to the kids next to me how babies get in Mommy's uterus to begin with. Refreshments were served as a very hasty diversion before I could use any more "nasty" words.

What I find odd is that it's apparently perfectly acceptable for professional women in a professional environment (a Federal government office), to say at a meeting to another woman, 'You vag!"

I know that if I, or any other man said it, we would be fired immediately.

So, even when you use a word as a slur, and a word associated with common anatomy, it depends on whose mouth it comes out of.

Words aren't just words either. They shouldn't be used outside of an Enlish language lesson. :p

Now that's funny! LOL

It's far too late for that girl now, sh'es doomed to the life of a cheap crack whore.
Sorrowfully, she won't realize the depth of her folly until her High School reunion, when all the other girls who graduated have become expensive crack whores who live in fancy 1-room closets with their 15 children, and she's still living under a bypass.
good for them! i love spunky girls. its a good time to learn that there are things worth being ohmygod! suspended for. i hope it sets them onto a life time of political protest.
It is an even better thing to learn that there are things not worth being suspended over, and that this was one of them.
Yes, the school administrators were stupid to have tried to ban the word, but so is any other organization that attempts to ban words based on the idea that they might shock or offend. However, it was even stupider of the girl to rise to the bait.
I personally hope that all involved be smited for their stupidity, may their loins be as barren and wasted as the contents of their useless heads, that their seed shall not spread to stain further human histories.

What I find odd is that it's apparently perfectly acceptable for professional women in a professional environment (a Federal government office), to say at a meeting to another woman, 'You vag!"

I know that if I, or any other man said it, we would be fired immediately.

So, even when you use a word as a slur, and a word associated with common anatomy, it depends on whose mouth it comes out of.
I have mixed feelings about such uses.

I don't like the idea that being called a vagina (or any variation thereof) should be an insult. I happen to be very fond of vaginas, and I think the world would be a sadder place without them. I don't see why being a vagina should be considered a bad thing.

At the same time, though, I do use the word "dick" as an insult. I do this unthinkingly most of the time, since it's just a common variant on "you jerk." So I realize that my personal feelings about this are very colored by how my society uses such words. "Dick" isn't really a very strong insult. On the other hand, insults involving female genitalia are serious slams. Calling somebody a "****" is a big freaking deal (at least where I live). Perhaps if calling somebody a "vag" were equivalent to calling somebody a "dick," it wouldn't bother me as much as it does.

The other problem is that it matters who is saying a word. If a black man uses the word "******," it is different than if a white man uses it. If a male uses "vag," it is different than if a woman does it. Such is life.

You do realise that this is exactly the point of high school?

Public schools are run by the government. Thus, they obey a government-written curriculum, and government-written rules. Obviously, the government would do whatever it legally can do to ensure that the students such schools produce will remain loyal to the government, including teaching them conformity and absolute fidelity to the rules. Encouraging "critical thinking" and "independence" means, in the long run, encouraging people who could put the government and ruling authorities out of power, and no sane government wants to do that.

As for propagating more government officials and followers? That duty is, of course, given to the private schools, which are usually priced such that only the wealthy -- again, government supporters -- can attend. Thus, people like that will be taught leadership and critical thinking and the like, in the hope that someday they'll follow in their predecessors' footsteps and either support, or rule, the continuing system of government.

rage against the machine!

Makes three of us.

When my mother was pregnant with my brother, we went to this class for young children who are going to have new baby brothers or sisters. It was supposed to be a way to make the older sibling more comfortable with the changes in Mommy and in the family. However, I ended up causing a bit of a problem when I continually corrected the teacher.

"So there is a baby in Mommy's tummy..."
"NOT in her tummy! In her uterus!!"

"...And the doctors will help get the baby out..."
"Through her vagina!"

Then I decided to explain to the kids next to me how babies get in Mommy's uterus to begin with. Refreshments were served as a very hasty diversion before I could use any more "nasty" words.

I personally find your little show to be disguisting(excuse my language). Why do you get some sick joy out of hurting the innocence of young children?Where is your sense of morals or decency?

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

To a point I am right. I just left out the part that it can't be school sanctioned. If the Public School sanctioned it, then it would be a violation of Church and State :D

Only in theory. In practice, the purpose of schools is to educate the young and teach them to think what the administration (federal government, principal, school board) wants them to think.

If that's the case then I believe that the situation must be changed dramatically.

You, on the other hand, seem to favour maintaining the status quo purely because it is the status quo.

Irony?

live a little, zilam. life is full of people trying to tie you down with stupid rules. the sooner you learn which need to be obeyed and which need to be flouted, the better your life wiill be.


Well after just reading Romans 13, I know which things are to be obeyed. I will obey any rule just as long as it doesn't go against God's rules. Last time I checked, not being allowed to say vagina wasn't against God's word, although I am sure he thinks those people enforcing the laws are complete and utter idiots.

ARGH!!!! You said the word!!!

Brain.... melting....

Inhibitions...vanishing....

Becoming a.... lesbian.....

*dies of terror*

Pics plz.

Makes three of us.

When my mother was pregnant with my brother, we went to this class for young children who are going to have new baby brothers or sisters. It was supposed to be a way to make the older sibling more comfortable with the changes in Mommy and in the family. However, I ended up causing a bit of a problem when I continually corrected the teacher.

"So there is a baby in Mommy's tummy..."
"NOT in her tummy! In her uterus!!"

"...And the doctors will help get the baby out..."
"Through her vagina!"

Then I decided to explain to the kids next to me how babies get in Mommy's uterus to begin with. Refreshments were served as a very hasty diversion before I could use any more "nasty" words.

LMAO!!

That is indeed funny! Thanks for sharing :D

I personally find your little show to be disguisting(excuse my language). Why do you get some sick joy out of hurting the innocence of young children?Where is your sense of morals or decency?
I was brought up believing that the human body is not shameful or disgusting or sick. Talking about body parts was nothing to be embarrassed about, and understanding how my body worked was considered a good thing. I was as comfortable saying "penis" or "vagina" as I was with "elbow" or "nose." And why not? They're normal, healthy body parts.

There's nothing wrong with having a vagina, so why should there be anything wrong with talking about having one?

I personally find your little show to be disguisting(excuse my language). Why do you get some sick joy out of hurting the innocence of young children?Where is your sense of morals or decency?

I'm sorry - in what way is your own biology disgusting?

How does that destroy their innocence? Why can't they know about birth? What harm does that bring in any way whatsoever to them?
Given that all of the children in the room had passed through a vagina on their way into the world, I don't really see where the harm would be in knowing the name for that body part. I mean, if passing through one didn't destroy them, then I'm sure the word itself won't hurt. :D

I personally find your little show to be disguisting(excuse my language). Why do you get some sick joy out of hurting the innocence of young children?Where is your sense of morals or decency?

Lying to small children is a moral and decent thing to do?

rage against the machine!
rofl... I guess I just had an awful high school experience. >.<

You, on the other hand, seem to favour maintaining the status quo purely because it is the status quo.
I'm not in favour of maintaining it. I'm just stating that it's being maintained and that there is, at present, little way to change it. Strawman.

It is an even better thing to learn that there are things not worth being suspended over, and that this was one of them.
Yes, the school administrators were stupid to have tried to ban the word, but so is any other organization that attempts to ban words based on the idea that they might shock or offend. However, it was even stupider of the girl to rise to the bait.


these are probably 14 year old girls. sure its not a particularly important thing to be able to do a tiny bit from the vagina monologues but its GREAT to become a hero by saying one little word. its GREAT to find out that being suspended for a day or 2 isnt all that big a deal. its GREAT to figure out that you can defy authority and live to tell about it.

it was a cheap lesson for them. they have somewhat more than 3 years of highschool left. i bet they make the most of it.

That's not true. I talked about God all the time in High school. Im even taking a second minor in religious studies at my state funded UNI. So, thats no entirely correct.

OH was not talking about the University level. Many institutions have some religious classes. Some deal with comparative religions and some specialize in a particular relgion.

I was talking about school sponsership of religion being illegal here in the US.

BTW: is that University of Northern Illinios, Iowa, or Indiana?

Pics plz.

Unfortunately (for you :p ) I'm male.

I personally find your little show to be disguisting(excuse my language). Why do you get some sick joy out of hurting the innocence of young children?Where is your sense of morals or decency?

How does that destroy their innocence? Why can't they know about birth? What harm does that bring in any way whatsoever to them?

Soveistan lives in a world where girls have vaginas, but can't admit it.

I don't see why they didn't just claim they said, for the last line,
"my fai' Gina’s country" (swallowing the 'r' from fair)

Well after just reading Romans 13, I know which things are to be obeyed. I will obey any rule just as long as it doesn't go against God's rules. Last time I checked, not being allowed to say vagina wasn't against God's word, although I am sure he thinks those people enforcing the laws are complete and utter idiots.

oh thats just sad, zilam. there are soooo many rules out there ranging from " dont kill the guy who cuts you off" to "dont wear white after labor day". if you try to obey them all youll go nutz.

I personally find your little show to be disguisting(excuse my language). Why do you get some sick joy out of hurting the innocence of young children?Where is your sense of morals or decency?

HELLO!!! It was done in a hospital during a class on what is happening biologicly! Nothing wrong with telling the truth.

I was brought up believing that the human body is not shameful or disgusting or sick. Talking about body parts was nothing to be embarrassed about, and understanding how my body worked was considered a good thing. I was as comfortable saying "penis" or "vagina" as I was with "elbow" or "nose." And why not? They're normal, healthy body parts.

There's nothing wrong with having a vagina, so why should there be anything wrong with talking about having one?

Yo go girl!

Let me explain this to you. Children by nature are innocent and have no concept of sex or the results of it such as child birth. It is irresponsible to talk about things like sexual organs, sex, or the in workings of pregenacy with a child. They have no concept of these things and exposing them to it can be dangerous. To me is the same as child molestation.

No

I was brought up believing that the human body is not shameful or disgusting or sick. Talking about body parts was nothing to be embarrassed about, and understanding how my body worked was considered a good thing. I was as comfortable saying "penis" or "vagina" as I was with "elbow" or "nose." And why not? They're normal, healthy body parts.

There's nothing wrong with having a vagina, so why should there be anything wrong with talking about having one?

Let me explain this to you. Children by nature are innocent and have no concept of sex or the results of it such as child birth. It is irresponsible to talk about things like sexual organs, sex, or the in workings of pregenacy with a child. They have no concept of these things and exposing them to it can be dangerous. To me is the same as child molestation.

Let me explain this to you. Children by nature are innocent and have no concept of sex or the results of it such as child birth. It is irresponsible to talk about things like sexual organs, sex, or the in workings of pregenacy with a child. They have no concept of these things and exposing them to it can be dangerous. That's not much of an explanation.
Why can't they be allowed to know the proper medical names of their organs? What's the harm in that? It's not like they're being instructed on how to use them.

OH was not talking about the University level. Many institutions have some religious classes. Some deal with comparative religions and some specialize in a particular relgion.

I was talking about school sponsership of religion being illegal here in the US.

BTW: is that University of Northern Illinios, Iowa, or Indiana?
by uni i meant University. :-p. I guess i had cap on or something. I goto western Illinois.
oh thats just sad, zilam. there are soooo many rules out there ranging from " dont kill the guy who cuts you off" to "dont wear white after labor day". if you try to obey them all youll go nutz.
:p

Let me explain this to you. Children by nature are innocent and have no concept of sex or the results of it such as child birth. It is irresponsible to talk about things like sexual organs, sex, or the in workings of pregenacy with a child. They have no concept of these things and exposing them to it can be dangerous. To me is the same as child molestation.

I was 5 when I learned about the Birds and the bees. Hell, I even had a book about it that my parents bought for me to understand. I even got another one when I hit puberty. It is no where near the equivolency of child molestation. Why don't you grow up and smell the coffee.

Let me explain this to you. Children by nature are innocent and have no concept of sex or the results of it such as child birth. It is irresponsible to talk about things like sexual organs, sex, or the in workings of pregenacy with a child. They have no concept of these things and exposing them to it can be dangerous. To me is the same as child molestation.
So it is immoral and dangerous to discuss facts devoid of sexuality to children? Maybe we should just keep our kids home and not teach them to read or do math, and keep them from watching tv or anything.

Let me explain this to you. Children by nature are innocent and have no concept of sex or the results of it such as child birth. It is irresponsible to talk about things like sexual organs, sex, or the in workings of pregenacy with a child. They have no concept of these things and exposing them to it can be dangerous.

How? Be specific. How will it harm a child to know the names of their sex organs? Will it also harm them to know the names of their mouth, or hands, considering that these parts are also commonly used during sexplay? Specifically, how will a child be harmed by knowing the names of body parts or the physical processes of reproduction? Keep in mind that "loss of innocence" is not actually a specific harm.


To me is the same as child molestation.
If you really think that telling children the names for their body parts is the same as raping a child, then you are one deeply sick individual. If you are so obsessed with sexualizing children that you cannot talk to them honestly about their own bodies, then you have a dangerous fixation that you seriously need to address (preferably before you are ever charged with caring for children in any capacity).

One of the biggest problems I see today is that people make EVERYTHING sexual. The nude human body is ALWAYS sexual. Human genitals are ALWAYS sexual. Kids get these messages, particularly because we never are supposed to talk about our bodies or these parts, and they are associated always with the shameful dirty no-no secret of sex.

Such bunk. Ignorance doesn't protect kids, it puts them in danger.

I really hate to be the one to tell, you Soviestan, but kids have genitals. Not telling them about their genitals is not going to make them disappear. They will have them. They will TOUCH them!!! *GASP!* They will ask questions about them. You can shame them and punish them for having genitals and curiosity, or you can grow up and get over your cootie fears.

Let me explain this to you. Children by nature are innocent and have no concept of sex or the results of it such as child birth. It is irresponsible to talk about things like sexual organs, sex, or the in workings of pregenacy with a child. They have no concept of these things and exposing them to it can be dangerous. To me is the same as child molestation.
Children are not 'innocent'. In fact, from a very early age children are exposed to sex and sexual organ-related materials, usually gaining a tremendous number of misconceptions regarding these topics which are not corrected until a high school health class, by which point it may be too late already. What's wrong with telling them earlier so they can have a better concept of it by their teenage years?

Let me explain this to you. Children by nature are innocent and have no concept of sex or the results of it such as child birth. It is irresponsible to talk about things like sexual organs, sex, or the in workings of pregenacy with a child. They have no concept of these things and exposing them to it can be dangerous. To me is the same as child molestation.

How is it dangerous? What will it do to them? How is it even remotely close child molestation? It's not like we're discussing some weird fetishes with children, they're simply explaining biology.

Let me explain this to you. Children by nature are innocent and have no concept of sex or the results of it such as child birth. It is irresponsible to talk about things like sexual organs, sex, or the in workings of pregenacy with a child. They have no concept of these things and exposing them to it can be dangerous. To me is the same as child molestation.

Personally I think that a child who's taught "sex and any parts of your body which relate to it are inherently dirty and icky; they must never be mentioned in public" is far more sexualised than a child who's told the truth.

I also find the notion of lying to children to be morally dubious.

That's not much of an explanation.
Why can't they be allowed to know the proper medical names of their organs? What's the harm in that? It's not like they're being instructed on how to use them.

and even if they were, I doubt most children even feel or understand sexual desire until it happens to them. I didn't.

The only reason children would be traumatized by these words is because idiots like Soviestan make a big deal out of them. You don't make a big deal out of your pancreas, but if you did, people would start calling it a hoo-hah and would be suspended from school for saying it.

Let me explain this to you. Children by nature are innocent and have no concept of sex or the results of it such as child birth. It is irresponsible to talk about things like sexual organs, sex, or the in workings of pregenacy with a child. They have no concept of these things and exposing them to it can be dangerous. To me is the same as child molestation.

Would you rather they find out from you, when they ask about such things, or would you rather they found out from the other kids in the street?

Curiosity can never be stopped.

It's perfectly OK to tell kids what's going on, especially if they ask.

Has anyone who is against the girls defying the rules actually seen the Vagina Monologues?

Seriously - one of the major points of the show is that women should not feel ashamed to have vaginas. That vaginas are not 'dirty'. That vaginas are not immoral.

Anyone who saw the Vagina Monologues and even vaguely got the point of it should hopefully realise that it would have been absurd for these girls to remove the word 'Vagina' from their reading - as the whole point of the readings are that vaginas are not something to be ashamed of - making the word shameful by removing it would be turning the entire thing on it's head and getting the message ass-backwards.

Let me explain this to you. Children by nature are innocent and have no concept of sex or the results of it such as child birth. It is irresponsible to talk about things like sexual organs, sex, or the in workings of pregenacy with a child. They have no concept of these things and exposing them to it can be dangerous. To me is the same as child molestation.

This is not child molestation. This is education. Sex, and childbirth are natural parts of human life, and teaching a child about them in a simple and understandable fashion is in no way more harmful or hurtful than teaching them how to ride a bike.

Also, proper sex education (and I mean proper as in teaching them about contraception, not this "abstinence only" bullshit) can help prevent the spread of sexual diseases, by teaching them to be responsible in their actions when they grow up and start having consensual sex.

Let me explain this to you. Children by nature are innocent and have no concept of sex or the results of it such as child birth. It is irresponsible to talk about things like sexual organs, sex, or the in workings of pregenacy with a child. They have no concept of these things and exposing them to it can be dangerous. To me is the same as child molestation.


Let me explain this to you. Children by nature are curious. As such if they are old enough to ask a question, then they are probably ready for an answer.

Telling them what a body part is called is hardly the same an instructing them on the Kama Sutra.

Keeping girls innocent to your interpretation only sets them up for problems down the road.

Keeping girls innocent to your interpretation only sets them up for problems down the road.

He'd rather them go through AIDS and unwanted pregnancy than them, y'know, knowing stuff.

Keeping girls innocent to your interpretation only sets them up for problems down the road.Well, if you define "problems" as "submitting themselves to the rule of men without question" you're absolutely right. ;)

these are probably 14 year old girls. sure its not a particularly important thing to be able to do a tiny bit from the vagina monologues but its GREAT to become a hero by saying one little word. its GREAT to find out that being suspended for a day or 2 isnt all that big a deal. its GREAT to figure out that you can defy authority and live to tell about it.
I should certainly hope that most people's standards for the word "hero" are higher than that. It isn't as if the school put a permanent ban on saying "Vagina", they just said that it shouldn't be used in that particular setting at that particular time as a pre-condition for the girl being allowed to do her "tiny bit." Presumably, the girl agreed (since they let her use the mic), and then she said it anyway.
That is (a) stupid, (b) annoying and (c) pointless.
it was a cheap lesson for them. they have somewhat more than 3 years of highschool left. i bet they make the most of it.
A lesson in what? Being an idiot, getting smacked for being an idiot, than moving on? There are a lot of rules that don't appear important or that one can break without consequences, but you shouldn't just violate them for the Hell of it. That is the road to ANARCHY!
Or at least to little old ladies entering the ten items or less lane with 11 items. Damn them.

Well, if you define "problems" as "submitting themselves to the rule of men without question" you're absolutely right. ;)
And for pity's sake, don't nobody teach them womenfolks about orgasms! They might start expecting to HAVE them some day!

I should certainly hope that most people's standards for the word "hero" are higher than that. It isn't as if the school put a permanent ban on saying "Vagina", they just said that it shouldn't be used in that particular setting at that particular time as a pre-condition for the girl being allowed to do her "tiny bit." Presumably, the girl agreed (since they let her use the mic), and then she said it anyway.
That is (a) stupid, (b) annoying and (c) pointless.


Have you seen the Vagina Monologues?

If you have, and you got one of it's major points, you would realise that they acted very correctly in using the word. Removing the word presumeably because it is 'dirty' or 'shameful' would be 100% against the point of the Vagina monologues.

so happy i never grow up in the US would have been locked up for watching porn at what ever the age i was in year three

Keeping girls innocent to your interpretation only sets them up for problems down the road.

In fact, children who are unaware of or afraid to talk about their bodies are in much more danger than children who are not. A young girl who is victimized by an adult is going to feel much more shame and going to be much less likely to report it if she feels that even talking about that area of her body is bad.

A young girl who can't talk about such things, but is beginning to feel sexual feelings is unlikely to make responsible decisions and is more likely to get pressured into things by others - both because of the taboo factor, and because she is uninformed.

Hell, even an infection in the genital area may go untreated for much longer than it should, because the girl isn't going to be comfortable with talking about that area, or with allowing a doctor to see it.

When I was younger, my mother answered every question I ever asked about these things. When I started pressing for details, she bought me books. There were those in my family who thought that it was a horrible thing - that I was going to be some sex-crazed slut or something in high school. As it turns out, I was actually well out of high school before I ever considered having sex. I was able to rationally think - and talk - about sex, about relationships, and about what I was ready for.


I should certainly hope that most people's standards for the word "hero" are higher than that. It isn't as if the school put a permanent ban on saying "Vagina", they just said that it shouldn't be used in that particular setting at that particular time as a pre-condition for the girl being allowed to do her "tiny bit." Presumably, the girl agreed (since they let her use the mic), and then she said it anyway.
That is (a) stupid, (b) annoying and (c) pointless.

Not in the least. A reading from the Vagina Monologues is meant to make the point that the vagina is not shameful, that we should not be ashamed to have one, to know about it, or to talk about it. These girls chose this reading, and then were told that, in order to do so, they had to go against the very purpose of the reading. Reading it and then removing the word would have been pointless. Reading it with the word, despite the consequences, makes a very clear point.

A lesson in what? Being an idiot, getting smacked for being an idiot, than moving on? There are a lot of rules that don't appear important or that one can break without consequences, but you shouldn't just violate them for the Hell of it. That is the road to ANARCHY!

They didn't violate them "for the hell of it." They didn't just stand up on stage and chant the word "vagina" over and over again. They broke the rules as a protest to censorship, and they'll most likely be vindicated in that choice.

And for pity's sake, don't nobody teach them womenfolks about orgasms! They might start expecting to HAVE them some day!

What's an "orgasm"?

(Anyway, if women aren't taught about orgasms, how are they expected to be able to fake them for men?)

They didn't violate them "for the hell of it." They didn't just stand up on stage and chant the word "vagina" over and over again. They broke the rules as a protest to censorship, and they'll most likely be vindicated in that choice.That would have been way cooler, though. ;)

9th grade students asked for permission to read, at an open-mic session, a selection from Eve Ensler's "The Vagina Monologues." They got it, with the pre-condition that they, get this, not utter the word vagina aloud. (http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703060363) So they did anyway--but only this passage:

The horror! The anguish! That a child might learn the actual name of a body part instead of some ridiculous euphemism like "hoo-hah."

The girls read that line together as a sign of unity, but I wonder what would have happened if they'd shoved the restriction right back in the principal's face and replaced vagina with something a bit more rude like maybe pussy or ****. Think he might have completely shit his pants then?

Bah. Maud Lebowski best described this type of person:

Heh. The word vagina doesn't bother me. This guy really needs to grow a penis. HA HA! In your face, Mr. Principal! I said penis, not shrinky-dink or diddly-doo. Penis! PENIS!

Solidarity Vagina. :cool:

Heh. The word vagina doesn't bother me. This guy really needs to grow a penis. HA HA! In your face, Mr. Principal! I said penis, not shrinky-dink or diddly-doo. Penis! PENIS!

Don't you mean "grow some testicles"? o_O

Don't you mean "grow some testicles"? o_O

He's 13, leave him be.

When I was in high school there was a very naught boy who, from time to time, used to call teachers stupid cunts to their faces. I don't think he was ever suspended for it.

I suppose it's a waste of time for me to point out that this happened in cross river.

When I was in high school there was a very naught boy who, from time to time, used to call teachers stupid cunts to their faces. I don't think he was ever suspended for it.

I suppose it's a waste of time for me to point out that this happened in cross river.

It would be, if I knew what cross river was.

Let me explain this to you. Children by nature are innocent and have no concept of sex or the results of it such as child birth. It is irresponsible to talk about things like sexual organs, sex, or the in workings of pregenacy with a child. They have no concept of these things and exposing them to it can be dangerous. To me is the same as child molestation.

Wow. Did Islam turn you from obnoxiously insanely liberal to obnoxiously insanely conservative? Explaining sexual organs = child molestation is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

I'm not saying that the rules weren't stupid. I'm suggesting that the school has a right to be stupid, and the enforcement of stupid rules is better than the principle of letting students decide what rules they want to follow. The students should have at least tried to go down the official route before jumping straight for the civil disobedience. Like asking your democratic representative to do something before jumping straight to breaking a law you consider stupid.
Forsakia, schools are institutions and SHOULDN'T have rights. Also Forsakia, if you go down the official route in America for ANYTHING, it's resolved years later. The most the girls would have got was some money. By actually taking action, they showed the schools they were willing to stand up for themselves.

The pupils do not have the right to decide which rules are idiotic and don't have to be followed. That way lies chaos

Blind obedience leads to a life as a spineless sheep. Life takes no prisoners, anyone without the brass to defy an unjust rule needs to go home and stay.

It would be, if I knew what cross river was.

It's a town in Westchester. It's like the mythical stepford, but with better scenery.

Wow. Did Islam turn you from obnoxiously insanely liberal to obnoxiously insanely conservative? Explaining sexual organs = child molestation is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

There's a reason he's on my ignore list. It took him about two months to go from ultra-liberal atheist to ultra-conservative muslim. My guess is he figured out this forum is mostly atheists and realized he wouldn't get attention that way, so he decided to play a muslim.


He's about as islamic as I am.

There's a reason he's on my ignore list. It took him about two months to go from ultra-liberal atheist to ultra-conservative muslim. My guess is he figured out this forum is mostly atheists and realized he wouldn't get attention that way, so he decided to play a muslim.


He's about as islamic as I am.

Surely would explain his misinterpretations of Islam - such horrid ones that even I, a person that studies Islam as an occultist, can tell how utterly wrong he is.

There's a reason he's on my ignore list. It took him about two months to go from ultra-liberal atheist to ultra-conservative muslim. My guess is he figured out this forum is mostly atheists and realized he wouldn't get attention that way, so he decided to play a muslim.


He's about as islamic as I am.

I find him convincing.

I find him convincing.

Well, troll or not, he does misinterpret Islam a LOT.

Well, troll or not, he does misinterpret Islam a LOT.

So are a great many of it's followers then apparently. I mean you can't deny the hidden camera footage from the green lane mosque where imams - who were also converts to islam, some of them from the US - were basically saying the same sort of thing as soviestan.

Maybe he just got involved with a more conservative mosque when he converted, instead of a college seminar group is what happened.

Have you seen the Vagina Monologues?

If you have, and you got one of it's major points, you would realise that they acted very correctly in using the word. Removing the word presumeably because it is 'dirty' or 'shameful' would be 100% against the point of the Vagina monologues.
Then it was rather pointless of the girls to agree not to say it, wasn't it?

Then it was rather pointless of the girls to agree not to say it, wasn't it?On the contrary, it would have been pointless if they kept their word on that agreement.

good. she knew the rules yet she still wanted to push her luck. When they say don't say it, here's an idea, dont say it! I would have expelled her on stupidity alone.

And if it was a guy, you'd be supporting him because men have rights and women have the right to STFU and kiss your friggin' ass. :rolleyes:

They aren't just any words. Those words shouldn't just be thrown around and in imo they have no place in school outside of a health class.

What's wrong with the word vagina? The vagina is a natural part of the female body. The vagina is to the female body as the penis is to the male body. The vagina is both sexual and non-sexual. What's wrong with calling the vagina a "vagina"? The word vagina sounds far superior to words like "HooHah" and other asinine euphemisms.

Oh no! I used the word vagina recklessly and threw it around! And I'm a girl! *snort* and "God" or any other little imaginary asshole in the sky can't do shit about it because it doesn't exist!


I personally find your little show to be disguisting(excuse my language). Why do you get some sick joy out of hurting the innocence of young children?Where is your sense of morals or decency?

(The above quote is referring to the story Bottle wrote about going to a class that would help children understand their roll as an older sibling).

I've read that story Bottle has written before and the story is with Bottle as a child at the time. She had wrote it down a couple of years ago, and when she had written it, she had explained that she was a child when it happened, and she didn't like the fact that the teacher was using the wrong words and gave the wrong information.

It is not the same as an adult saying those words, though a responsible adult should use the proper words. I mean, they're only words.

Let me explain this to you. Children by nature are innocent and have no concept of sex or the results of it such as child birth. It is irresponsible to talk about things like sexual organs, sex, or the in workings of pregenacy with a child. They have no concept of these things and exposing them to it can be dangerous. To me is the same as child molestation.

Children are innocent? So, most humans are innocent until proven guilty.

I fail to see what's wrong with a child knowing about the right parts of the body when they are old enough to understand, which in my case was about 5 years old. My dad first explained it to me when I was young and it didn't make me into a crazed-sex fiend. If anything, being armed with sexual knowledge made me more willingly to wait.

I chose to wait because I had been taught to only have sex when I felt I was ready and when the circumstances were right.

Being open about sexual relations is not an open ticket to making a society of sex-crazed kids. If anything being conservative about it is a sure-fire way to mess up children because they don't know any better and they will learn it from their friends, on the streets and off of TV which glorifies sex without giving the people any information about the nature of sexual relations.

With education people know about their options are and won't give into pressure because they know what exists beyond the narrow mind-set of conservatism.

Then it was rather pointless of the girls to agree not to say it, wasn't it?
Actually, by agreeing to it it meant that they could perform/read the piece they wanted to. If they hadn't agreed, they wouldn't have been able to.

So are a great many of it's followers then apparently. I mean you can't deny the hidden camera footage from the green lane mosque where imams - who were also converts to islam, some of them from the US - were basically saying the same sort of thing as soviestan.

Maybe he just got involved with a more conservative mosque when he converted, instead of a college seminar group is what happened.

They also misinterpret it not unlike some fundie Christians misinterpret the Bible.

Actually, by agreeing to it it meant that they could perform/read the piece they wanted to. If they hadn't agreed, they wouldn't have been able to.
Yes, but apparently "performing the piece without saying vagina" and "not performing the piece" are equivalent, so we're back to what I said.
If not being able to say "vagina" would have rendered the whole thing pointless, then she should have refused to concede in the first place.
She agreed to do something a certain way, then she didn't, and the people she made the agreement with retaliated. There are no heroes in this story, and no victims, just idiots.

Yes, but apparently "performing the piece without saying vagina" and "not performing the piece" are equivalent, so we're back to what I said.
If not being able to say "vagina" would have rendered the whole thing pointless, then she should have refused to concede in the first place.
She agreed to do something a certain way, then she didn't, and the people she made the agreement with retaliated. There are no heroes in this story, and no victims, just idiots.

I have to agree, the girls had said they wouldn't use the word. I do think the demand that they not use it was stupid. If the school administration was that concerned about the language in the play, they shouldn't have allowed them to perform any part of it. I mean, in something called "The Vagina Monologs," the word "vagina" is bound to turn up here and there. No points to anyone here.

You do realise that this is exactly the point of high school?

Public schools are run by the government. Thus, they obey a government-written curriculum, and government-written rules. Obviously, the government would do whatever it legally can do to ensure that the students such schools produce will remain loyal to the government, including teaching them conformity and absolute fidelity to the rules. Encouraging "critical thinking" and "independence" means, in the long run, encouraging people who could put the government and ruling authorities out of power, and no sane government wants to do that.

As for propagating more government officials and followers? That duty is, of course, given to the private schools, which are usually priced such that only the wealthy -- again, government supporters -- can attend. Thus, people like that will be taught leadership and critical thinking and the like, in the hope that someday they'll follow in their predecessors' footsteps and either support, or rule, the continuing system of government.

The fact of the matter is, that defying rules and regulations that we don't agree with is what has made our country what it is today (more accurately, what it was yesterday, since apparently we've stopped thinking for ourselves...). If we (had) always just gave in, Bush would have us as a nation of homophobic, sexually repressed, war-mongering, zealots. Instead, thats only about 30% of us.

And as many here have said, making people feel ashamed of their bodies, or sexuality, is just plain wrong. Nobody deserves to be told that part of their body is offensive to speak about. Shit like this is why sex therapists are so goddamn rich.




:D vagina :D

To quote George Orwell's 1984:

"WAR IS PEACE

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH"

It creeps me out to read that book and think of the very specific examples that immediately spring to mind. To suspend girls over talking about their bodies in a rational, intelligent way, and refer to parts of their bodies by the actual TERM, is Orwellian.

It is disappointing, but not surprising Soviestan blithely ignores the consequences of blatant government censorship. Nazz has the right of it;

SUE, SUE, SUE.

Then it was rather pointless of the girls to agree not to say it, wasn't it?

And have the entire thing censored out of the program? Hell, that would have been an even worse case of censorship.

I have to agree, the girls had said they wouldn't use the word. I do think the demand that they not use it was stupid. If the school administration was that concerned about the language in the play, they shouldn't have allowed them to perform any part of it. I mean, in something called "The Vagina Monologs," the word "vagina" is bound to turn up here and there. No points to anyone here.
They still get points for giving the administration the proverbial finger, but they'd have gotten more points if they'd replaced "vagina" with "pussy" or "****." The administration was just plain stupid on this. If they were worried, they should have just said "pick something else." I have no pity for administrators who stick themselves in stupid situations and then cry when it explodes on them.

How old is a 9th grade student in the US?

14 or 15. I'm a 15 year old ninth grader.


Oh, and

penis penis penis vagina penis testicle vagina vagina vagina penis uterus clitoris vagina penis penis vaginia scrotum vagina vagina fallopian tube vagina penis.

I'd like to email that to the principal of that school.

edit: I'd also put that in ginormous red letters if any sex-phobic fundies care about it. :)

Children are not 'innocent'. In fact, from a very early age children are exposed to sex and sexual organ-related materials, usually gaining a tremendous number of misconceptions regarding these topics which are not corrected until a high school health class, by which point it may be too late already. What's wrong with telling them earlier so they can have a better concept of it by their teenage years?

By nature they are innocent, to claim otherwise is foolish imo. To me children have no business learning about sex until they are at least teenagers when they start to have those feelings and what not.

By nature they are innocent, to claim otherwise is foolish imo. To me children have no business learning about sex until they are at least teenagers when they start to have those feelings and what not.

Sweet freaking Allah--we're not talking about sex. We're talking about anatomy, science, human freaking biology. Get that through your goddamn head.

How is it dangerous? What will it do to them? How is it even remotely close child molestation? It's not like we're discussing some weird fetishes with children, they're simply explaining biology.

Its dangerous because when you tell children about these things(who btw do not have the reasoning capabilities of teens or adults) they may get ideas to do unhealthy things. Things like trying to touch other children in those areas or trying to actually do what they have been taught with other people. What I'm saying is if you tell children that penises go in vaginas, they may try to act that sort of thing out. Children simply shouldn't be exposed to this crap, I don't know why people on here don't get that.

Remember that when some dumb-ass teacher tells you not to say the word "allah" at school and suspends you when you defy the order.

Actually, it's "Jesus" and "God" that the faculty don't want to hear, not "Allah". You could limit your vocabulary to "Allah" (or Krishna or Buddha or Odin or Wotan or Hillary Clinton or (you name it)) and they wouldn't care. But you say "Jesus" or "God" (except as cuss words) and everybody will scream "Separation of Church and State!", "Get God out of our schools!", "Say NO to Jesus Christ!", "The Bible is a myth!", "Quick! Somebody fetch Allah or Satan to save us from Jehovah!", and other junk to that effect.

I personally worship the vagina . . .

OK, YOU are a guy.

By nature they are innocent, to claim otherwise is foolish imo. To me children have no business learning about sex until they are at least teenagers when they start to have those feelings and what not.

girls often start puberty at 9 years old. a parent has to start talking before then eh?

before 9, a girl still has a vagina and should know what its called.

Actually, it's "Jesus" and "God" that the faculty don't want to hear, not "Allah". You could limit your vocabulary to "Allah" and they wouldn't care. But you say "Jesus" or God" (except as cuss words) and everybody will have a fit! "Separation of Church and State!", "Get God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ out of our schools!", and other junk to that effect.

Bullshit. There are no shortage of teachers who bring all manner of religious talk into the classroom. It may not be sanctioned, but it's in there. I mean, do you really think that there's some kind of atheism test for teachers? Look--I teach college English, and have lots of education majors pass through my classrooms, and none of them are shy about talking about god in my classes. If we're supposed to be indoctrinating them into atheism, we're doing a really shitty job of it.

And for pity's sake, don't nobody teach them womenfolks about orgasms! They might start expecting to HAVE them some day!

There really is no logical or biological reason for women to have orgasms if you think about it. Its not necessary for a woman to have them to concieve children and the only reason the clitoris is there is to aid and reduce the pain of child birthing.

There really is no logical or biological reason for women to have orgasms if you think about it. Its not necessary for a woman to have them to concieve children and the only reason the clitoris is there is to aid and reduce the pain of child birthing.
You're gonna be real popular with the ladies with that attitude. How about this as a biological reason--if you don't know how to please a woman sexually, you won't get to have sex with her enough to pass along your sacred man juice.

There really is no logical or biological reason for women to have orgasms if you think about it. Its not necessary for a woman to have them to concieve children and the only reason the clitoris is there is to aid and reduce the pain of child birthing.

now youre just being silly.

how would the clitoris reduce the pain of child birth?

Its dangerous because when you tell children about these things(who btw do not have the reasoning capabilities of teens or adults) they may get ideas to do unhealthy things. Things like trying to touch other children in those areas or trying to actually do what they have been taught with other people. What I'm saying is if you tell children that penises go in vaginas, they may try to act that sort of thing out. Children simply shouldn't be exposed to this crap, I don't know why people on here don't get that.

Because you don't get simple facts like they only get ideas about things when they are discussed in hushed voices.

How? Be specific. How will it harm a child to know the names of their sex organs? Will it also harm them to know the names of their mouth, or hands, considering that these parts are also commonly used during sexplay?
why the hell would children be engaging in "sexplay"?
Keep in mind that "loss of innocence" is not actually a specific harm.

of course its harmful if it occurs too early in a child's life



Such bunk. Ignorance doesn't protect kids, it puts them in danger.
bull

I really hate to be the one to tell, you Soviestan, but kids have genitals. Not telling them about their genitals is not going to make them disappear. They will have them. They will TOUCH them!!! *GASP!* They will ask questions about them. You can shame them and punish them for having genitals and curiosity, or you can grow up and get over your cootie fears.
:rolleyes:

You're gonna be real popular with the ladies with that attitude. How about this as a biological reason--if you don't know how to please a woman sexually, you won't get to have sex with her enough to pass along your sacred man juice.

Thats not a biological reason and you know it. Hell, I rape someone and impregnant her. Of course I wouldn't do something like that, but still.

Sweet freaking Allah--we're not talking about sex. We're talking about anatomy, science, human freaking biology. Get that through your goddamn head.

I don't think our resident muslim here understands the difference.

Its dangerous because when you tell children about these things(who btw do not have the reasoning capabilities of teens or adults) they may get ideas to do unhealthy things.

Oh for the sweet love of Mohammad. What the frek are you talking about? I learned about the birds and the bees at the age of FIVE!!! I haven't done anything unhealthy. Prey tell what are you talking about.

Things like trying to touch other children in those areas or trying to actually do what they have been taught with other people.

Oh bullshit.

What I'm saying is if you tell children that penises go in vaginas, they may try to act that sort of thing out. Children simply shouldn't be exposed to this crap, I don't know why people on here don't get that.

*dies of laughter*

There really is no logical or biological reason for women to have orgasms if you think about it. Its not necessary for a woman to have them to concieve children and the only reason the clitoris is there is to aid and reduce the pain of child birthing.

But it makes women feel so good to have them.

why the hell would children be engaging in "sexplay"?

You missed the point completely. If your reason for not teaching a child about simple biology, in this case the fact that they have a vagina or a penis, is because it somehow damages their innocence to learn about things related to sex, then there is an equal reason to limit teaching them about hands and mouths because they, too, can be used in sex.

of course its harmful if it occurs too early in a child's life

How? How is it harmful?

bull

Your reasoning?

Its dangerous because when you tell children about these things(who btw do not have the reasoning capabilities of teens or adults) they may get ideas to do unhealthy things. Things like trying to touch other children in those areas or trying to actually do what they have been taught with other people. What I'm saying is if you tell children that penises go in vaginas, they may try to act that sort of thing out. Children simply shouldn't be exposed to this crap, I don't know why people on here don't get that.

There is nothing even remotely "unhealthy" about children touching each other. To prohibit such contact, to make it taboo - that is far less healthy.

bull

"Hey, don't play under that teetering rock, it might fall on you and kill you." Yeah, ignorance protects kids

By nature they are innocent, to claim otherwise is foolish imo. To me children have no business learning about sex until they are at least teenagers when they start to have those feelings and what not.

I suppose then, that we shouldn't ever talk about aging until the person has already aged? We shouldn't talk about pregnancy until the woman is already pregnant? We shouldn't tell men about prostate cancer until they are diagnosed with it? We shouldn't talk about hair loss until you start balding?

Seriously, your stance is utterly ridiculous and a danger to children. I seriously hope you never have any.

You missed the point completely. If your reason for not teaching a child about simple biology, in this case the fact that they have a vagina or a penis, is because it somehow damages their innocence to learn about things related to sex, then there is an equal reason to limit teaching them about hands and mouths because they, too, can be used in sex.


Children don't know that things like mouths could be used for sex, thus it doesn't damange them.
How? How is it harmful?

When you don't let kids be kids and take anyway there innocence before their ready, bad things happen. Case and point Micheal Jackson. He never really had a child hood and know he thinks he still is a kid. So tell me, do you want a bunch of Micheals running around? I doubt it.

"Hey, don't play under that teetering rock, it might fall on you and kill you." Yeah, ignorance protects kids

nice strawman.

Its dangerous because when you tell children about these things(who btw do not have the reasoning capabilities of teens or adults) they may get ideas to do unhealthy things.

You're right. When I found out that my father's penis was called "penis", I immediately began having sex. :rolleyes:

Things like trying to touch other children in those areas or trying to actually do what they have been taught with other people. What I'm saying is if you tell children that penises go in vaginas, they may try to act that sort of thing out.

That's just plain....I'm sorry to say it, but you sound like a complete idiot.

Children simply shouldn't be exposed to this crap, I don't know why people on here don't get that.

Children should not be kept artificially ignorant. All that does is put them in danger. If a child is old enough to ask about their bodies, they are old enough to be told about their bodies.

Ok, Soviestan, so what do you suggest as a punishment to ginecologists that have kids and find themselves in a position in which they have to discuss a patient? 90 lashes, maybe?

You're right. When I found out that my father's penis was called "penis", I immediately began having sex. :rolleyes:


It since thats your case, it must be that for everyone:rolleyes:




Children should not be kept artificially ignorant. All that does is put them in danger. If a child is old enough to ask about their bodies, they are old enough to be told about their bodies.

By that logic just b/c a child is old enough to have sex, they are ready to do so. And that just couldn't be farther from the truth.

It since thats your case, it must be that for everyone:rolleyes:





By that logic just b/c a child is old enough to have sex, they are ready to do so. And that just couldn't be farther from the truth.

So can I assume that everybody in your bloodline got married in their... what, their mid-thirties as far back as you can trace it?

This is just ridiculous. Obviously they do things differently here, but I was told about sex and the sexual parts of the body in grade 5 (10-11 years old) AT SCHOOL. Of course, my parents gave me more info about it much earlier, but the government approved time the board of education decided it was right for kids to get the CORRECT ideas and facts about sex, as well as safe sex practices and information about STI's, was when the majority of kids were 10 or 11.

And know what? At my school now, in theory the most prestigious and traditional government school around, we regularly have teachers using "naughty" words (penis, dick, vagina, gash, shit, fuck, etc) in normal classes. Guess what? It's more fun this way, we pay more attention, learn more, and stop being so afraid of these things.

I pity the American youth :(

They were not punished for saying vagina.

They were punished for insuboordination, as they had promised NOT to say it, then did it anyway.

They were not punished for saying vagina.

They were punished for insuboordination, as they had promised NOT to say it, then did it anyway.

To-may-to, To--mah-to, Kat. It's a bullshit situation and I have no respect for or pity for the school administrators who put themselves in such a ridiculous position to begin with.

They were not punished for saying vagina.

They were punished for insuboordination, as they had promised NOT to say it, then did it anyway.

Hooray for insubordination! Question Authority, especially when they're full of it ;)

eta: Woot! 2k :cool:

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

Agreed. Otherwise, there wouldn't be an OMG CHRISTIAN CLUB and an OMG MUSLIM CLUB!!!! in my school.

You CAN talk about religion and God in a historical context, or in a comparative context. You CANNOT preach. Big difference.

girls often start puberty at 9 years old. a parent has to start talking before then eh?

before 9, a girl still has a vagina and should know what its called.

"mommy a strange man touched me!"
"where'd he touch you?"
"ummmm.....:confused: "

:headbang:

:headbang:

Yeah. It feels like that sometmes, doesn't it?;)

At this rate, banned words will eliminate most of human language.

Uh, it's called Newspeak.

Get with the times. I'd say they're doubleplusgood!

Yeah. It feels like that sometmes, doesn't it?;)

Amen.

Actually, it's "Jesus" and "God" that the faculty don't want to hear, not "Allah". You could limit your vocabulary to "Allah" (or Krishna or Buddha or Odin or Wotan or Hillary Clinton or (you name it)) and they wouldn't care. But you say "Jesus" or "God" (except as cuss words) and everybody will scream "Separation of Church and State!", "Get God out of our schools!", "Say NO to Jesus Christ!", "The Bible is a myth!", "Quick! Somebody fetch Allah or Satan to save us from Jehovah!", and other junk to that effect.

Wrong.

Actually, it's "Jesus" and "God" that the faculty don't want to hear, not "Allah". You could limit your vocabulary to "Allah" (or Krishna or Buddha or Odin or Wotan or Hillary Clinton or (you name it)) and they wouldn't care. But you say "Jesus" or "God" (except as cuss words) and everybody will scream "Separation of Church and State!", "Get God out of our schools!", "Say NO to Jesus Christ!", "The Bible is a myth!", "Quick! Somebody fetch Allah or Satan to save us from Jehovah!", and other junk to that effect.

Ah, the delightful and invigorating victim ploy by the Right.

Well isn't that cute... But it's WROOOONG!!!

What we DO stand against is forcing God (or Allah, or anyone else) to be uttered by those that don't want to utter it. QED the many students that get punished for not mentioning "under God" and the Right's tacit support of this obvious breach of the student's rights. It IS a nice trick to play the victim while at the same time trying to - yes - force God INTO public schools.

Isn't getting God into schools happening now instead of people trying to expel it? Intelligent design for one...cough...

Isn't getting God into schools happening now instead of people trying to expel it? Intelligent design for one...cough...

Yes, but that has thankfully been defeated, for now.

Thank [generic deity whose existence is in question] for Kitzmiller v. Dover School District.

9th grade students asked for permission to read, at an open-mic session, a selection from Eve Ensler's "The Vagina Monologues." They got it, with the pre-condition that they, get this, not utter the word vagina aloud. (http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703060363) So they did anyway--but only this passage:

The horror! The anguish! That a child might learn the actual name of a body part instead of some ridiculous euphemism like "hoo-hah."

The girls read that line together as a sign of unity, but I wonder what would have happened if they'd shoved the restriction right back in the principal's face and replaced vagina with something a bit more rude like maybe pussy or ****. Think he might have completely shit his pants then?

Bah. Maud Lebowski best described this type of person:

We call it vajjjjjjjjiiiin. The j is french j. Try it, it's fun....

Isn't getting God into schools happening now instead of people trying to expel it? Intelligent design for one...cough...

It's the fundie discourse: "OMG! WE CAN'T PREACH OUR BULLSHIT AS IF IT WERE SCIENCE NOR CAN WE FORCE ATHEIST STUDENTS TO BOW DOWN TO OUR GOD! WE'RE VICTIMS!!!!"

Please spare me the "I'm not Muslim enough" talk ok. This has absolutely nothing to do with women rights or Islam. I don't why everything I say on here goes back to Islam even when its completely off topic. If a guy had wanted to read it and the teacher said don't say it or else, and he says it,then sorry he should face his punishment too.

Too much authority can be a little too much. What if the teacher said, "no breathing"?

Too much authority can be a little too much. What if the teacher said, "no breathing"?

90 lashes on whoever breathes to survive... :p

We are actually taught that we should encourage children to say 'vagina' - not 'flower', not any euphemism. Vagina.
(And the 'children' there meant 7-8 year olds.)

:headbang:

Best. Debate. Strategy. Evar.

We are actually taught that we should encourage children to say 'vagina' - not 'flower', not any euphemism. Vagina.
(And the 'children' there meant 7-8 year olds.)

Well, you should. There's nothing hypermagical about the word, after all. It's just a name of a body part. It's when we mystify body parts, give them a bogus religiosity, that they become dangerous, because we--and I mean all of us, no matter our age--give them some power they don't deserve, that they haven't earned, and that power is over us, over the way we look at these things and at ourselves.

I'm not debating, I'm showing how I feel about the stupidity of what happened.
Hey. I knew what you were going for--communication takes all forms.

Best. Debate. Strategy. Evar.

I'm not debating, I'm showing how I feel about the stupidity of what happened.

Well, you should. There's nothing hypermagical about the word, after all. It's just a name of a body part. It's when we mystify body parts, give them a bogus religiosity, that they become dangerous, because we--and I mean all of us, no matter our age--give them some power they don't deserve, that they haven't earned, and that power is over us, over the way we look at these things and at ourselves.

Agreed. I presume that goes the same with the word 'penis'.
But I think there's also something wrong with those who use these words with that underlying 'hypermagical' connotation; and those who react to these neutrally-said words due to the same connotation in their minds.

Agreed. I presume that goes the same with the word 'penis'.
But I think there's also something wrong with those who use these words with that underlying 'hypermagical' connotation; and those who react to these neutrally-said words due to the same connotation in their minds.

Absolutely, and I agree with you--there is something wrong with those people who use words which name body parts in those hypermagical ways. We've had at least one of them in this thread.

I know. That was addressed to Ruffy.Yeah, but I can't keep my mouth shut sometimes.

I'm not debating, I'm showing how I feel about the stupidity of what happened.

Best. Correction. Evar.

Hey. I knew what you were going for--communication takes all forms.

I know. That was addressed to Ruffy.

Shhh, if we don't let them find out about the word they might not notice they have one and won't fall victim to teh ebil sex!!11!

Actually my girlfriend didnt even know she had a vagina until she was a junior in highschool and I'd assume she'd heard the word before... what a retard.

There really is no logical or biological reason for women to have orgasms if you think about it. Its not necessary for a woman to have them to concieve children and the only reason the clitoris is there is to aid and reduce the pain of child birthing.
Actually, we have a lot of evidence that the muscle contractions that accompany orgasm will increase the likelihood of fertilization.

In addition, it is amusing to see that you assume a "logical or biological reason" must revolve around conceiving children. The vast, vast majority of human sexual contact does not result in conception. Procreation is only one of the many functions that is served by sexual contact...and that's from a BIOLOGICAL standpoint.

Not to mention the fact that you believe God created all, right? So doesn't the clitoris exist specifically because God intended it to exist? Are you saying that God is irrational and illogical? Or have women managed to grow the clitoris against God's wishes? O.o

It's actually a bit sad to hear you arguing for children to be kept in ignorance, considering that your own is so overwhelming. I think you genuinely have no clue about the subject we're discussing, so you probably don't have any idea what you are missing. You probably mean well. But without any knowledge of your own, you can't possibly grasp how knowledge can improve an individual's health and happiness.

why the hell would children be engaging in "sexplay"?

Answer the question, and stop trying to dodge it like a coward.

SPECIFICALLY, what harm will befall children as a result of knowing the names of their body parts? Why will it harm them to know the names of some body parts, but not others?


of course its harmful if it occurs too early in a child's life

State how.


bull


:rolleyes:
I wasn't aware that Allah endorsed cowardice and laziness. Why are you displaying such qualities here?

If you feel that harm is done, then state it clearly and openly. No more of this vague, hazy, sloppy BS. Don't be so afraid (or so lazy) that you cannot look at your own beliefs clearly. Examine what you are claiming. Sort it out in your head. Present it thoroughly.

Of course not. It's a shameful body part that should not be mentioned in polite company. Children are far too innocent to hear about it. In fact, I think we should start instituting a requirement for all young girls and women to wear chastity belts. They shouldn't be allowed to stray, you know. They might have sex without intending to have children of their own, and we can't have that.

Yep. Also a gag and an anal protection, just to avoid unnatural intercourses. And barbed gloves will keep our child free from "self-abuse"...:D

good. she knew the rules yet she still wanted to push her luck. When they say don't say it, here's an idea, dont say it! I would have expelled her on stupidity alone.

1.Better get expelled from such a stupid place.
2.At 14 she's in puberty. Has she to go to the doc and say "I loose blood from my little unspeakable thingie"?
3.When a stupid person forbids you to say something that is absolutely normal, it is your right and obligation as citizen to rebel.

Ah Soviestan, always good for a lol.

Isn't sex-phobia cute?

"Bodies are TEH EBIL! No touchie!!!"

"Womenz have dirty sin-parts of badness! There's no reason for them to have orgasms, when we could just rape them when we need bay-bees!"

"Sex is for making of bay-bees and that's all! No, I've never actually bothered to learn a single solitary thing about anthropology or primate biology!!!"

"RARRRR!!! SEX BAD!"

Ah Soviestan, always good for a lol.

Isn't sex-phobia cute?

"Bodies are TEH EBIL! No touchie!!!"

"Womenz have dirty sin-parts of badness! There's no reason for them to have orgasms, when we could just rape them when we need bay-bees!"

"Sex is for making of bay-bees and that's all! No, I've never actually bothered to learn a single solitary thing about anthropology or primate biology!!!"

"RARRRR!!! SEX BAD!"
That has got to me the funniest thing I've ever read on NSG. :D

Ah Soviestan, always good for a lol.

That is indeed true.

Isn't sex-phobia cute?

"Bodies are TEH EBIL! No touchie!!!"

"Womenz have dirty sin-parts of badness! There's no reason for them to have orgasms, when we could just rape them when we need bay-bees!"

"Sex is for making of bay-bees and that's all! No, I've never actually bothered to learn a single solitary thing about anthropology or primate biology!!!"

"RARRRR!!! SEX BAD!"

LMAO!!!!

Yeah! We should never teach children about sex! What if they realize what we're doing to them and they tell it to others and we'll go to jail? Just think about it! "Daddy! We just had the first sex ed class at school and guess what I learned. You're a sick bastard! How could you do that thing to me when I was only 9 years old? I really believed you when you said it's necessary so I won't catch smallpox again! And you know what? When I was 10 the doctor did the same thing to me but I told him I already received the smallpox vaccine from my daddy so he told me that one was against measles! And I didn't even get to that part where my older brother......"

Well, you should. There's nothing hypermagical about the word, after all. It's just a name of a body part. It's when we mystify body parts, give them a bogus religiosity, that they become dangerous, because we--and I mean all of us, no matter our age--give them some power they don't deserve, that they haven't earned, and that power is over us, over the way we look at these things and at ourselves.

Hey! Did you know that you can do magic with vaginas? No, really! Take three vaginas, stick a finger in each of them and say the words "Abracadabra! Unleash the mighty power of the VAGINA!" and you'll become immortal! (Or was it "immoral"? I can't remember really...)

Not to mention the fact that you believe God created all, right? So doesn't the clitoris exist specifically because God intended it to exist? Are you saying that God is irrational and illogical? Or have women managed to grow the clitoris against God's wishes? O.o

YES!! That's exactly it! All women are witches that have grown the ungodly VAGINA! How else would you explain the fact that they can grant you immortality? (Or was it "immorality"? Still can't remember...)

YES!! That's exactly it! All women are witches that have grown the ungodly VAGINA! How else would you explain the fact that they can grant you immortality? (Or was it "immorality"? Still can't remember...)
I have to admit, I'm somewhat delighted by the idea that the clitoris is a built-in rebellion against God himself.

Yeah! We should never teach children about sex! What if they realize what we're doing to them and they tell it to others and we'll go to jail? Just think about it! "Daddy! We just had the first sex ed class at school and guess what I learned. You're a sick bastard! How could you do that thing to me when I was only 9 years old? I really believed you when you said it's necessary so I won't catch smallpox again! And you know what? When I was 10 the doctor did the same thing to me but I told him I already received the smallpox vaccine from my daddy so he told me that one was against measles! And I didn't even get to that part where my older brother......"

MARRY ME!!! :D

Hey! Did you know that you can do magic with vaginas? No, really! Take three vaginas, stick a finger in each of them and say the words "Abracadabra! Unleash the mighty power of the VAGINA!" and you'll become immortal! (Or was it "immoral"? I can't remember really...)

I think all vaginas are magical.

But that's just me, I guess.

Also, apparently the spell checker is telling me the proper plurality is vaginae. Go figure.

Reason #344,556,789 to homeschool your children.

I have to admit, I'm somewhat delighted by the idea that the clitoris is a built-in rebellion against God himself.

Makes as much sense as anything else involving religion, perhaps a little more.