NationStates Jolt Archive

That's right, rap music or "hip hop" if you will is fucking awesome. Im a punk who loves MCs and DJs. I fucking hate pretentious wankers who look down on rap music and make stupid (subconsciously racist?) comments like "its not real music, its just someone talking". Shut up. You clearly know nothing. Being a good rapper is more than just talking; it relies on flow, pitch, timing, speed, enunciation, etc. I mean for fucks sake, one of you guys who criticise rappers for being untalentened try just talking over a beat and see how it compares.

Some people make legitimate criticisms over the content of rap music(glorification of street violence, sexist statements, homophobic remarks, bling bling culture etc). However this comes from an obsessive observance of a certain section of mainstream rap. Ultimately these criticisms are a product of a narrow view of a narrow segment of hip hop music as a whole. Many artists have socially uplifting messages, anti-drug messsages, political commentaries, etc. Just because some rappers who are funded by corporate record labels and given money for product placement get on tv and the radio and act like mysogynistic materialistic muggers doesnt mean that is what represents the overall rap community as a whole.

Peace. Ha.

You wait and see.. those homosexuals will take that over next.

That's right, rap music or "hip hop" if you will is fucking awesome. Im a punk who loves MCs and DJs. I fucking hate pretentious wankers who look down on rap music and make stupid (subconsciously racist?) comments like "its not real music, its just someone talking". Shut up. You clearly know nothing. Being a good rapper is more than just talking; it relies on flow, pitch, timing, speed, enunciation, etc. I mean for fucks sake, one of you guys who criticise rappers for being untalentened try just talking over a beat and see how it compares.

Some people make legitimate criticisms over the content of rap music(glorification of street violence, sexist statements, homophobic remarks, bling bling culture etc). However this comes from an obsessive observance of a certain section of mainstream rap. Ultimately these criticisms are a product of a narrow view of a narrow segment of hip hop music as a whole. Many artists have socially uplifting messages, anti-drug messsages, political commentaries, etc. Just because some rappers who are funded by corporate record labels and given money for product placement get on tv and the radio and act like mysogynistic materialistic muggers doesnt mean that is what represents the overall rap community as a whole.

Peace. Ha.

Rhyme does not equate to poetry. The highest form of poetry is blank verse, thus Rap has no poetic merits as a medium. Pertinent to diction, Rap is not so much eloquent as like shitting on the linguistic exertions of millenia of intellectuals. Thus, we must turn to thematic expression, and musical expression, both of which, in Rap are thoroughgoingly predictable and, for the most part, limited at best.

...Accusing people who don't like the same music you do as being "subconciously racist" is fucking moronic. Have a nice day.

...Accusing people who don't like the same music you do as being "subconciously racist" is fucking moronic. Have a nice day.

Says the racist.

EDIT: What a lame post of mine.. why did this have be be #18,000?! :(

Rhyme does not equate to poetry. The highest form of poetry is blank verse, thus Rap has no poetic merits as a medium.

Guh?
Your equation does not compute.

...Accusing people who don't like the same music you do as being "subconciously racist" is fucking moronic. Have a nice day.

And you accuse me of being tactless?:D

...Accusing people who don't like the same music you do as being "subconciously racist" is fucking moronic. Have a nice day.

Can you say joke, dickhead?

I don't criticize the style of rap per se, I criticize the content of the music. Despite the presence of a few exceptions, the majority of mainstream rap concerns itself with crime, misogynism, and materialism. Also, as with most modern music, mainstream rap has no real message, it's completely corporatized and exists solely to sell itself. Rap as a style is no better or worse than any other genre/style, and does indeed require talent.

I think a big part of the problem with the image of rap/hip-hop is the way it chooses to market itself. It is a broad, diverse style, but the only really visible faces of it are those of the egotistical, chauvinistic thugs and of the dumbed-down party music. While many other forms of it exist, they really don't get the same exposure as the gangstas. Of course, I say this from an outsider's perspective; I don't have a taste for the style myself, but I'm merely commenting on what I observe as someone who's interested in music in general. If hip-hop wants to escape the thug image, it has to stop glorifying it.

Says the racist.

EDIT: What a lame post of mine.. why did this have be be #18,000?! :(

Ouch. Random tongue-in-cheek comment becomes a lasting impression on the forums. EVERYONE SIG THIS AND MAKE SURE EVERYONE KNOWS IT'S RUFFY'S 18,000TH POST!

And you accuse me of being tactless?:D

Yeah, and you have the excuse of being drunk.

Can you say joke, dickhead?

Can you say flame?

Can you say joke, dickhead?

"joke". See, I said it you waste of skin.

Guh?
Your equation does not compute.

By which I mean that the previously quoted remark is fallacious.

"joke". See, I said it you waste of skin.

:D ahhh hilarity. I've made a quick pop. Im not continuing this.

Guh?
Your equation does not compute.

It does if you study English literature.

Shakespeare and Milton both wrote primarily in Blank Verse (see any number of immortal plays that resonate through literature and drama today, or "Paradise Lost"), and remain foundations upon which the canon has been constructed. Indeed, Chaucer also wrote in this form, whilst Wordsworth, in writing what one might construe as the Romantic manifesto; "Tintern Abbey", concsiously employed Blank Verse to afford the poem esteem. Thus, given that rap is primarily influenced b Anglo-centric poetry and music, my "equation", which might be better termed an axiom, "computes" all to well.

I'm gonna knock rap music.

Truthfully, I am.

Why?

It lacks guitars. Guitars are sweet.

It does if you study English literature.

Shakespeare and Milton both wrote primarily in Blank Verse (see any number of immortal plays that resonate through literature and drama today, or "Paradise Lost"), and remain foundations upon which the canon has been constructed. Indeed, Chaucer also wrote in this form, whilst Wordsworth, in writing what one might construe as the Romantic manifesto; "Tintern Abbey", concsiously employed Blank Verse to afford the poem esteem. Thus, given that rap is primarily influenced b Anglo-centric poetry and music, my "equation", which might be better termed an axiom, "computes" all to well.

You draw the further conclusion that all verse which is not blank verse has no poetic merit whatsoever, which I consider to be unjustified.

Edit: It's a hidden premise in your original argument, which ran:
P1: Blank verse is the highest form of verse.
P2: Rap music uses other forms of verse.
C: Rap music is devoid of poetic merit.

The conclusion is not supported by the premises, one would also need to assume that non-blank verse has no merit to establish the conclusion.

Public Enemy:it really doesn't get much better.

I can't say I'm the biggest fan of rap. I personally don't find many of the artists anything more than talking to a repetitive beat, although there are a few rappers I find to be more interesting: Eminem, D12 and a couple of others I can't quite remember the name of. However, I share your opinion that people who actually go out of their way to slag off the music when not asked for their opinion should shut up. I rarely find rap at all offensive, and even if I don't usually enjoy listening to it it's obvious that a lot of skill does go into it. When your not singing like most and have no more music than a beat it takes a lot of work to get to a level where people will find you worth listening to.

I'm gonna knock rap music.

Truthfully, I am.

Why?

It lacks guitars. Guitars are sweet.

see, thats fair enough.

(download cypress hill- rock superstar)

I fucking hate pretentious wankers who look down on rap music and make stupid (subconsciously racist?) comments like "its not real music, its just someone talking". Shut up. You clearly know nothing. Being a good rapper is more than just talking; it relies on flow, pitch, timing, speed, enunciation, etc. I mean for fucks sake, one of you guys who criticise rappers for being untalentened try just talking over a beat and see how it compares.

I agree. And ya know, it ALWAYS happens. Whenever the subject of rap music comes up, someone has to feel smart and tell the rest of us idiots about how it's not actually music, how anyone could do it, and how much their own shitty sub-genre is supposed to be better.

Some people make legitimate criticisms over the content of rap music(glorification of street violence, sexist statements, homophobic remarks, bling bling culture etc). However this comes from an obsessive observance of a certain section of mainstream rap. Ultimately these criticisms are a product of a narrow view of a narrow segment of hip hop music as a whole. Many artists have socially uplifting messages, anti-drug messsages, political commentaries, etc. Just because some rappers who are funded by corporate record labels and given money for product placement get on tv and the radio and act like mysogynistic materialistic muggers doesnt mean that is what represents the overall rap community as a whole.

I hate it on principle AND because I prefer listening to fingers being run down a blackboard.

It does if you study English literature.

Shakespeare and Milton both wrote primarily in Blank Verse (see any number of immortal plays that resonate through literature and drama today, or "Paradise Lost"), and remain foundations upon which the canon has been constructed. Indeed, Chaucer also wrote in this form, whilst Wordsworth, in writing what one might construe as the Romantic manifesto; "Tintern Abbey", concsiously employed Blank Verse to afford the poem esteem. Thus, given that rap is primarily influenced b Anglo-centric poetry and music, my "equation", which might be better termed an axiom, "computes" all to well.

All modern music is diarrhea when compared to literary and poetic greats like Shakespeare, Milton, or Chaucer.

It's all fun and games until someone brings Chaucer into it.

All modern music is diarrhea when compared to literary and poetic greats like Shakespeare, Milton, or Chaucer.

Morrissey. Winner.:)

Good rap, with a point, is good. Otherwise, whatever.
It has its ups and downs as with any other genre.
What we get subjected to in the media is, by and large, shit, though.

All modern music is diarrhea when compared to literary and poetic greats like Shakespeare, Milton, or Chaucer.

Shakespeare, Milton and Chaucer didn't make music, so it's rather like comparing apples and oranges.

Morrissey. Whiner.:)

fixed for accuracy ;)

You draw the further conclusion that all verse which is not blank verse has no poetic merit whatsoever, which I consider to be unjustified.

No. I suggest that blank verse is the highest form of prosody, and thus other metres and forms have less merits. Hence why I pointed out the other shortcomings of Rap.

Surely were its rhyme enough to damn it, I would not have elaborated?

I hate it on principle

What reason could possibly exist for anyone to hate rap music "on principle"?

It's all fun and games until someone brings Chaucer into it.

And then gets boring and everyone leaves.

Rhyme does not equate to poetry. The highest form of poetry is blank verse, thus Rap has no poetic merits as a medium. Pertinent to diction, Rap is not so much eloquent as like shitting on the linguistic exertions of millenia of intellectuals. Thus, we must turn to thematic expression, and musical expression, both of which, in Rap are thoroughgoingly predictable and, for the most part, limited at best.

Really? Blank verse is the highest form of poetry? Can you point me to the list that ranks the various forms, because I would have sworn that the Ghazal and the Pantoum were duking it out for top honors a couple of months ago, and blank verse was in the second division with the sestina and L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poetry.

And then gets boring and everyone leaves.

Correctamundo!

I'm gonna knock rap music.

Truthfully, I am.

Why?

It lacks guitars. Guitars are sweet.

Actually I have listened to rap (I think it was Mac Dre, though I am not sure at all) that had guitar solos. It was cool.

I don't criticize the style of rap per se, I criticize the content of the music. Despite the presence of a few exceptions, the majority of mainstream rap concerns itself with crime, misogynism, and materialism. Also, as with most modern music, mainstream rap has no real message, it's completely corporatized and exists solely to sell itself. Rap as a style is no better or worse than any other genre/style, and does indeed require talent.You can make the same claim about pretty much any mainstream genre, though--the majority is making corporatized crap and there's a small number who really bust their asses to do something different. Occasionally, they get recognized, then they get aped, then they become mainstream and the cycle starts over again.

It does if you study English literature.

Shakespeare and Milton both wrote primarily in Blank Verse (see any number of immortal plays that resonate through literature and drama today, or "Paradise Lost"), and remain foundations upon which the canon has been constructed. Indeed, Chaucer also wrote in this form, whilst Wordsworth, in writing what one might construe as the Romantic manifesto; "Tintern Abbey", concsiously employed Blank Verse to afford the poem esteem. Thus, given that rap is primarily influenced b Anglo-centric poetry and music, my "equation", which might be better termed an axiom, "computes" all to well.

Not really. As much as you like Shakespeare and Milton the majority of the world probably can't understand him and can't be arsed to sit through one of his plays. You can't just claim because English literature students and academics in your little bubble all hold these people up to be the pinnacle of writing makes it true. Because I can guarantee if you went around most people in America or the UK if they wanted to sit through a Shakespeare play or listen to a rap album, theyd pick the latter. So don't do the whole pretentious academic thing because your 'high art' appeals to very few people.

What reason could possibly exist for anyone to hate rap music "on principle"?

:rolleyes: I quoted it... maybe my phrasing is off... but I'm not allowed to hate something because of what it stand for? I realise what you're all saying about it not all being like that. But I just don't like that stuff.

fixed for accuracy ;)
QFT.

:rolleyes: I quoted it... maybe my phrasing is off... but I'm not allowed to hate something because of what it stand for? I realise what you're all saying about it not all being like that. But I just don't like that stuff.

The OP's talking about the medium, not neccessarily the content of the mainstream stuff you're subjected to.

I realise what you're all saying about it not all being like that.

Then what, exactly, is your reason?

You can make the same claim about pretty much any mainstream genre, though--the majority is making corporatized crap and there's a small number who really bust their asses to do something different. Occasionally, they get recognized, then they get aped, then they become mainstream and the cycle starts over again.

I agree.

It does if you study English literature.

Shakespeare and Milton both wrote primarily in Blank Verse (see any number of immortal plays that resonate through literature and drama today, or "Paradise Lost"), and remain foundations upon which the canon has been constructed. Indeed, Chaucer also wrote in this form, whilst Wordsworth, in writing what one might construe as the Romantic manifesto; "Tintern Abbey", concsiously employed Blank Verse to afford the poem esteem. Thus, given that rap is primarily influenced b Anglo-centric poetry and music, my "equation", which might be better termed an axiom, "computes" all to well.

There's at least two problems with your thesis. First of all, it presumes that Elizabethan and Romantic era poetry is the pinnacle of literature and poetry, and well, there's been a lot of really good poetry written in the intervening years, and I dare say a lot of it is the equal of Messrs. Shakespeare and Milton. Secondly, I don't know where you get the idea that rap is primarily influenced by Anglo-centric poetry, but that statement proves you know dick about rap. Its primary influences are far more recent than that--like the Delta Blues of the thirties. Furthermore, rap tends to be, as most contemporary music, tetrametric as opposed to pentametric like your beloved blank verse. You might want to stick to subjects you know a little something about.

And what reasons am I allowed to have for not liking rap music?

Why are people still talking about rap being mysogynnistic and violent and shit? I already dealt with that. Im tired

Rhyme does not equate to poetry. The highest form of poetry is blank verse, thus Rap has no poetic merits as a medium. Pertinent to diction, Rap is not so much eloquent as like shitting on the linguistic exertions of millenia of intellectuals. Thus, we must turn to thematic expression, and musical expression, both of which, in Rap are thoroughgoingly predictable and, for the most part, limited at best.
it seems i’m only me in sleep,
where we meet in dream at the concrete bottom
of the brodie garage bridge you just jumped from.
who would have ever thought art school could be so sickening,
wearing the werewolf mask, you tuck your shirt in,
you said “it’s nice to look like you just stepped out of a movie,”
and sure you look cinematic,
silhouette on the edge of the roof of a car park under the orange sunset sky,
with any empty sketch pad and a werewolf mask.
we always meet too late, after you done did it,
put cracks in concrete fiftt feet from where i first saw you stand.
a pack of little birds peck at your flesh and your monster mask,
as i reach to touch your shoes
to track the trail of where you’ve been.

the ram’s crumpled horn, an empty turle shell.
sunset is an all day process, sunset is an all day process.

we seem to be sinking deeper into a vat of honey glaze, shall we live?
or shall we laminate ourselves into a standard appetizing position?
at school this quarter,
all the supply lists call for reynold’s wrap and contact paper,
report covers and lacquer. am i here to something, something,
or start a dead butterfly collection?

william howard taft is appalled that as an artist
i wouldn’t want to overindulge in a set of highly toxic
and rare natural pigments or beautiful paper to waste the rainforests with.
but friends, we’ve no longer a need for glitty masters
who paint gold-leaf babies in the backs of the cathedrals.
and that’s a fact, jack.

Jimmy Breze (Part 2) by cLOUDDEAD

If that ain’t poetic, I’d like to see what is. Is it just me, or is there some correlation between your illogical dismissal of rap music and your statement’s such as, “I would move out of the county if we had a black Prime Minister” (paraphrased)?

What reason could possibly exist for anyone to hate rap music "on principle"?
Rappers use words, Stalin and Pol Pot both used words, therefore Rap is inherently evil.

All modern music is diarrhea when compared to literary and poetic greats like Shakespeare, Milton, or Chaucer.
"The Knight's Tale" was a piece of clichéd, chauvinistic crap when first it was wrote, and, ye, so it remains today.

Because I can guarantee if you went around most people in America or the UK if they wanted to sit through a Shakespeare play or listen to a rap album, theyd pick the latter. So don't do the whole pretentious academic thing because your 'high art' appeals to very few people.
And mose people in the world, if offered such a choice, would be nonplussed by either as they'd lack sufficient education in the English language to appreciate them.

All modern music is diarrhea when compared to literary and poetic greats like Shakespeare, Milton, or Chaucer.
I rather put my head through a cinder block wall than deal with "the literary and poetic greats like Shakespeare, Milton, or Chaucer."

Chaucer isn't terrible, but the obsession with Shakespeare in liberal arts circles is ridiculous. He isn't that great, and not only that, but he writes fucking plays, not books. If I have to read one more god damn Shakespeare play like a book I'm going to become a serial killer.

Bumble-chutz-puzzzzzz!

Rappers use words, Stalin and Pol Pot both used words, therefore Rap is inherently evil.

The Devil is inherently evil, the Devil is associated with fire, fire brings heat, we need heat to live, therefore we need rap to live.

All you rap-haters just want us all to die. :mad:

And mose people in the world, if offered such a choice, would be nonplussed by either as they'd lack sufficient education in the English language to appreciate them.

Because only English and Americans make rap music? Nobody else in the world raps in any different languages?

Because only English and Americans make rap music? Nobody else in the world raps in any different languages?
Gotta love that French rap!

Because only English and Americans make rap music? Nobody else in the world raps in any different languages?

Not according to my spidey-geolinguistics sense, no.

In fact - and I hate to tell you - but there *aren't* any other languages than English and American. Oh, and Klingon and other conlanguages, but really those don't count.

:p

All modern music is diarrhea when compared to literary and poetic greats like Shakespeare, Milton, or Chaucer.

Great. This thread about rap has turned into one about Dead White European Males. What is this, 1988?

Oh, and Klingon and other conlanguages, but really those don't count.

Couldn't Klingon rap exist, conceivably?

That's right, rap music or "hip hop" if you will is fucking awesome. Im a punk who loves MCs and DJs. I fucking hate pretentious wankers who look down on rap music and make stupid (subconsciously racist?) comments like "its not real music, its just someone talking". Shut up. You clearly know nothing. Being a good rapper is more than just talking; it relies on flow, pitch, timing, speed, enunciation, etc. I mean for fucks sake, one of you guys who criticise rappers for being untalentened try just talking over a beat and see how it compares.

Some people make legitimate criticisms over the content of rap music(glorification of street violence, sexist statements, homophobic remarks, bling bling culture etc). However this comes from an obsessive observance of a certain section of mainstream rap. Ultimately these criticisms are a product of a narrow view of a narrow segment of hip hop music as a whole. Many artists have socially uplifting messages, anti-drug messsages, political commentaries, etc. Just because some rappers who are funded by corporate record labels and given money for product placement get on tv and the radio and act like mysogynistic materialistic muggers doesnt mean that is what represents the overall rap community as a whole.

Peace. Ha.

congratulations. you and 100 million other people. its not all that rare to like an extremely popular genre of music.

I rather liked Macbeth and Othello, but I'm not a huge fan of Shakespeare.

Have you read Hamlet?

Couldn't Klingon rap exist, conceivably?

Yes, but considering it would have to be written by Star Trek geeks, I shudder to imagine the quality.

Chaucer isn't terrible, but the obsession with Shakespeare in liberal arts circles is ridiculous. He isn't that great, and not only that, but he writes fucking plays, not books. If I have to read one more god damn Shakespeare play like a book I'm going to become a serial killer.

I rather liked Macbeth and Othello, but I'm not a huge fan of Shakespeare.

Because only English and Americans make rap music? Nobody else in the world raps in any different languages?

i heard some rather good croation rap once. doubt i could find it again though.

congratulations. you and 100 million other people. its not all that rare to like an extremely popular genre of music.

Im sorry. Should everybody stop posting because others hold the same opinions as us?

Come on everyone, hush up now.

Nope, is it any good?

I liked it substantially more than either Macbeth or Othello.

Have you read Hamlet?

Nope, is it any good?

Jumbo shrimp.
Honest politician.
Rap music.

What do they all have in common? All are oxymorons. :D

*runs*

I always love the way that people immediately jump on rap as being bad. There's lots of really good rap, really artistic rap, and really un-thug, un-crunk, un-pop rap out there. For example, take MC Lars, a Stanford Graduate (in English).

Most MC’s today rap about five things:
narcotics, cars, girls, clothes, and the bling bling.
Delusions of grandeur in full swing,
fascist self focus and diamond rings.
But if Martin Luther King were alive today,
how would he weigh the decay displayed?
Homogenized identities, ourselves betrayed,
there’s more to rap than just getting paid.
And there’s more to life than MTV and Reeses Pieces,
and when I sit in silence, my love for life increases.
It feels great to pull the plug on the family TV,
and make my own niche in society.

- MC Lars "Hey That's Me"

Hot Topic is a contrived identification with youth subcultures to manufacture an anti-authoritarian identity and make millions. The $8 you paid for the Mudvayne poster would be better spent used to see your brother’s friend’s band.

DIY ethics are punk rock
Starting your own label is punk rock
G.G. Allin was punk rock.

But when a crass corporate vulture feeds on mass-consumer culture, this spending mommy’s money is not punk rock!

- MC Lars; "Hot Topic is Not Punk Rock"

Phrase about my gun, rhyme about my loot
Phrase about these haters I sometimes have to shoot
Rhyme about my clothes,
props to my hometown (Carmel Valley!)
Lyrics that say nothing - cause that's how we get down
Phrase about my clique, don't step to me punk
Gratuitous rhyme about keeping it crunk
Big ups to our genre, we do it our own way
It's just too bad our songs don't have anything to say!

- MC Lars; "Generic Crunk Rap"

And that's just one artist. He also raps about books and poetry (With songs like "Ahab" and "Mr. Raven"). He's more pop than many, more hardcore rappers are too. I'm no rap fan for the most part (I just don't enjoy the musical aspect. I like to sing, or shout, along. Rap, although it can be clever in its own ways, doesn't have the sing-along aspect of most of the music I like), so my range is small, but most rappers have nothing to do with 50 Cent, ICP, and Eminem.

Because only English and Americans make rap music? Nobody else in the world raps in any different languages?
That is remarkably beside the point. The question is whether a classical english poem or english rap is of broader appeal, and so the Fantistischen Vier have no relevance.

Then what, exactly, is your reason?

I already said.... I just don't like it.... I prefer hearing fingers down a blackboard.... happy now?

I liked it substantially more than either Macbeth or Othello.

I should read it then, the next Shakespeare play I was going to read was The Tempest, or maybe King Lear.

...Accusing people who don't like the same music you do as being "subconciously racist" is fucking moronic. Have a nice day.

Can you say joke, dickhead?

"joke". See, I said it you waste of skin.

...How did this thread survive the first 5 posts?


Have you read Hamlet?
Macbeth > Hamlet.

Yes, but considering it would have to be written by Star Trek geeks, I shudder to imagine the quality.
Aww, come on, you mean you haven’t heard any nerdcore?

Check out MC Frontalot.

Im sorry. Should everybody stop posting because others hold the same opinions as us?

Come on everyone, hush up now.

no. i just dont know why you would choose to post it as if you needed to defend your preference.

i suppose it is fun to watch people fall all over themselves saying stupid things about a genre they dont listen to or like...

Couldn't Klingon rap exist, conceivably?

Yes, it does. And like Hamlet, rap is better in the original klingon.

Macbeth > Hamlet.

Why?

Yes, it does.

Really? It would be interesting to listen to some of it....

I think most americans should not be allowed 50 meters next to anything rap-related. They are just untalented... I think french rappers are better, or south african ones... or oceanic rappers... but what I have heard from America was mostly bad.

Why?

*shrug*
For one thing, its short and sweet. A lot of Hamlet is, in my opinion, filler (for example, the play in the 3rd act to, supposedly, prove that Claudius is the killer, even though Hamlet already knows he is), whereas Macbeth is concise.

Secondly, I found Macbeth to be more entertaining than Hamlet. I think that's the point of a play: to entertain. I also found the titular character of Macbeth more likeable than that of Hamlet. I think Hamlet's too whiny, and he came across as a spoiled brat for a lot of the play. Macbeth, on the other hand, is a good man who is corrupted by the witches (IMO, anyway).

Oh, and Macbeth has my favourite soliloquy: "Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow".

Really? It would be interesting to listen to some of it....


gura'cha'nak vrag'nal klackta neruth

(TRANSLATION: bitch slap them hoes. Fuck the cops)

gura'cha'nak vrag'nal klackta neruth

(TRANSLATION: bitch slap them hoes. Fuck the cops)

...sounds exactly like American rap...

...sounds exactly like American rap...

Yeah. Rap is the same no matter what language it's in.

That's right, rap music or "hip hop" if you will is fucking awesome. Im a punk who loves MCs and DJs. I fucking hate pretentious wankers who look down on rap music and make stupid (subconsciously racist?) comments like "its not real music, its just someone talking". Shut up. You clearly know nothing. Being a good rapper is more than just talking; it relies on flow, pitch, timing, speed, enunciation, etc. I mean for fucks sake, one of you guys who criticise rappers for being untalentened try just talking over a beat and see how it compares.

Some people make legitimate criticisms over the content of rap music(glorification of street violence, sexist statements, homophobic remarks, bling bling culture etc). However this comes from an obsessive observance of a certain section of mainstream rap. Ultimately these criticisms are a product of a narrow view of a narrow segment of hip hop music as a whole. Many artists have socially uplifting messages, anti-drug messsages, political commentaries, etc. Just because some rappers who are funded by corporate record labels and given money for product placement get on tv and the radio and act like mysogynistic materialistic muggers doesnt mean that is what represents the overall rap community as a whole.

Peace. Ha.

I hate rap.


1. The point of the rap and hip hop industry is too sell out, therefore thier is little room for artist integrity (unless thier core image is well taken by general consumers, which in most cases requires the artist too augment thier very style or lyrical composition.)

2. I respect people that play thier own instruments, and not have 90% of it come from digital effect.

3. As for only mainstream rap covering the vices of street violence and "bling bling" culture, it seems too me that any rap group must augment and allign with these principles too make it big, which in my perception, has me adopting a less than favorible view of the industry.

4. It's simply not my cup of tea. Punk, and British-Indie on the other hand...

5. The example of decent rap: Gym Class Heroes. Good beats, borderline emo lyrics, and a unique overall style... Or maybe its just me...

1. The point of the rap and hip hop industry is too sell out, therefore thier is little room for artist integrity

The point of ANY industry is to sell. That's almost the definition of industry. Produce, sell.

Doesn't make all music hateful though.

2. I respect people that play thier own instruments, and not have 90% of it come from digital effect.

I do play my own instruments. Piano, trumpet, drums, keyboards. I compose and I do digital audio work. I've performed in symphony orchestras and drum circles. And I can assure you that rap is not "90% digital effect."


4. It's simply not my cup of tea. Punk, and British-Indie on the other hand...


To each his own. I think this was your only genuine reason though. You don't like it. Shrug!

I don't like punk myself. :p Not because it's crap, but because I don't like it.

Not really. As much as you like Shakespeare and Milton the majority of the world probably can't understand him and can't be arsed to sit through one of his plays. You can't just claim because English literature students and academics in your little bubble all hold these people up to be the pinnacle of writing makes it true. Because I can guarantee if you went around most people in America or the UK if they wanted to sit through a Shakespeare play or listen to a rap album, theyd pick the latter. So don't do the whole pretentious academic thing because your 'high art' appeals to very few people.

The Comedy of Errors > *

Daryl Summers: You'll never ever know, if you never ever go.

Big bird: How do you know you don't know porridge if you haven't tried it?

Personally, rap isn't my preference, but I'm not going to impose anything over anyone.

I'm gonna knock rap music.

Truthfully, I am.

Why?

It lacks guitars. Guitars are sweet.

There was this Eminem one on Encore, but I can't remember the name of the song right now.

But see here: http://www.gleis.ch/ -> Audio -> First "Listen" button. Rap merges quite well with rock. Although that's not a very good example (come to think of it, I don't like that crew) , it was just the first one I could think of.

That's right, rap music or "hip hop" if you will is fucking awesome. Im a punk who loves MCs and DJs. I fucking hate pretentious wankers who look down on rap music and make stupid (subconsciously racist?) comments like "its not real music, its just someone talking". Shut up. You clearly know nothing. Being a good rapper is more than just talking; it relies on flow, pitch, timing, speed, enunciation, etc. I mean for fucks sake, one of you guys who criticise rappers for being untalentened try just talking over a beat and see how it compares.

Some people make legitimate criticisms over the content of rap music(glorification of street violence, sexist statements, homophobic remarks, bling bling culture etc). However this comes from an obsessive observance of a certain section of mainstream rap. Ultimately these criticisms are a product of a narrow view of a narrow segment of hip hop music as a whole. Many artists have socially uplifting messages, anti-drug messsages, political commentaries, etc. Just because some rappers who are funded by corporate record labels and given money for product placement get on tv and the radio and act like mysogynistic materialistic muggers doesnt mean that is what represents the overall rap community as a whole.

Peace. Ha.


i like yung joc....but i like this better.....

filter i think...

I wish I wouldve met you
Now its a little late
What you couldve taught me
I couldve saved some face
They think that your early ending
Was all wrong
For the most part theyre right
But look how they all got strong
Thats why I say hey man nice shot
What a good shot man
A man
Has gun
Hey man
Have fun
Nice shot
Now that the smokes gone
And the air is all clear
Those who were right there
Got a new kind of fear
Youd fight and you were right
But they were just to strong
Theyd stick it in your face
And let you smell what they consider wrong
Thats why I say hey man nice, nice shot
What a good shot man
A man
Has gun
Hey man
Have fun
Nice shot
I wish I wouldve met you
I wish I wouldve met you
Id say
Nice shot

The point of ANY industry is to sell. That's almost the definition of industry. Produce, sell.

Doesn't make all music hateful though.



I do play my own instruments. Piano, trumpet, drums, keyboards. I compose and I do digital audio work. I've performed in symphony orchestras and drum circles. And I can assure you that rap is not "90% digital effect."



To each his own. I think this was your only genuine reason though. You don't like it. Shrug!

I don't like punk myself. :p Not because it's crap, but because I don't like it.


Erm, if you're excluding small time Indie bands, and most of the punk genre, then yes, all music is meant too sell out. I take the term industry lightly, if not improperly used too convey what I wanted. I meant "genre" more so. As for your assurance, i'd take very warmly too statistics proving so. Thats fine that you don't like punk.

i like yung joc....but i like this better.....

filter i think...

I wish I wouldve met you
Now its a little late
What you couldve taught me
I couldve saved some face
They think that your early ending
Was all wrong
For the most part theyre right
But look how they all got strong
Thats why I say hey man nice shot
What a good shot man
A man
Has gun
Hey man
Have fun
Nice shot
Now that the smokes gone
And the air is all clear
Those who were right there
Got a new kind of fear
Youd fight and you were right
But they were just to strong
Theyd stick it in your face
And let you smell what they consider wrong
Thats why I say hey man nice, nice shot
What a good shot man
A man
Has gun
Hey man
Have fun
Nice shot
I wish I wouldve met you
I wish I wouldve met you
Id say
Nice shot

Now, in Klingon:


Ak'tar Ak'rath Bla'shanap
Narak'in'ja'narkak tu narka
Wyagh'nak flurak kal'bal'ganamain
Ak'narvark Jinrah kalrak navak
Tulrath argnak lavarsh
Gak Navarkag Zangeish
Zarnar Blask Vul'chana
Ha'shin La Zirka
Jinark zul kana blaska unarka zula
Kanvark jul blaska unarka zula
Liviskak zula
Hakvark Zulka
Liviskak Zula
Hallcavea warkanan
Blaska unarka
Nivern julan kalrak zul syoga
Zaktar zull kan ganis
Kanvar kulak zarvin!
Karg zula varak zuna (THERE IS NO KLINGON WORD FOR FEAR)
Yarka yuvak uga naka
Bak yagu zana Klingon
Bak yagu inakza vula
zana varak dualaka uunaga
Iiparg gaven warrak zula Blaska, blaska unarka
Blanak jula blaska unarka zula
Zanak zula
Harak Zulka
Zanak zula
Harak julanak
Blaska Unarka
Kalvan koolidge zorka
Kalvan Koolidge zorka
Ak'tar
Blaska unarka

Considering much of the rap out there depends on the fact that there is profanity every other word nearly and that a good chunk of it is simply about violence, drugs, and explicit sexuality and of course, much of the rap is simply repititions of earlier songs and remixed so many times that they should just have computer synthesized rappers, cut out the annoying responsiblity to pay the blowhard who sings for the record label.

Erm, if you're excluding small time Indie bands, and most of the punk genre, then yes, all music is meant too sell out.

Indie doesn't mean "selfless and altruistic."

And I am talking about "industry" here. Not the music - just like you were.

I meant "genre" more so.

On what basis is the rap and hip-hop genre en masse motivated to "sell out?"

As for your assurance, i'd take very warmly too statistics proving so. Thats fine that you don't like punk.

I don't need statistics to disprove your "90% effects" statement. You need something backing it up besides your own opinion. Until you do all I need is my own, expert, opinion to negate your assertion.

Take all rappers. Eliminate rappers who don't write their own lyrics. Eliminate rappers that don't write their own music. Eliminate rappers who don't play their music on instruments(or have bands that do so). eliminate one-hit wonders.

What you have left is rappers with talent. Eliminate those who won't still be making new albums ten years from now.

What you have left is Good rappers with talent.

So, who do we have left?

i like yung joc....but i like this better.....

filter i think...

I wish I wouldve met you
Now its a little late
What you couldve taught me
I couldve saved some face
They think that your early ending
Was all wrong
For the most part theyre right
But look how they all got strong
Thats why I say hey man nice shot
What a good shot man
A man
Has gun
Hey man
Have fun
Nice shot
Now that the smokes gone
And the air is all clear
Those who were right there
Got a new kind of fear
Youd fight and you were right
But they were just to strong
Theyd stick it in your face
And let you smell what they consider wrong
Thats why I say hey man nice, nice shot
What a good shot man
A man
Has gun
Hey man
Have fun
Nice shot
I wish I wouldve met you
I wish I wouldve met you
Id say
Nice shot

Yeah, Filter is industrial rock band, not rap.

Great song, though.

Now, in Klingon:


Ak'tar Ak'rath Bla'shanap
Narak'in'ja'narkak tu narka
Wyagh'nak flurak kal'bal'ganamain
Ak'narvark Jinrah kalrak navak
Tulrath argnak lavarsh
Gak Navarkag Zangeish
Zarnar Blask Vul'chana
Ha'shin La Zirka
Jinark zul kana blaska unarka zula
Kanvark jul blaska unarka zula
Liviskak zula
Hakvark Zulka
Liviskak Zula
Hallcavea warkanan
Blaska unarka
Nivern julan kalrak zul syoga
Zaktar zull kan ganis
Kanvar kulak zarvin!
Karg zula varak zuna (THERE IS NO KLINGON WORD FOR FEAR)
Yarka yuvak uga naka
Bak yagu zana Klingon
Bak yagu inakza vula
zana varak dualaka uunaga
Iiparg gaven warrak zula Blaska, blaska unarka
Blanak jula blaska unarka zula
Zanak zula
Harak Zulka
Zanak zula
Harak julanak
Blaska Unarka
Kalvan koolidge zorka
Kalvan Koolidge zorka
Ak'tar
Blaska unarka

what i posted was not rap or klingon..it was filter.

maybe this will do it correctly?

She calls me from the cold
Just when I was low, feeling short of stable
And all that she intends
And all she keeps inside, isnt on the label
She says shes ashamed
And can she take me for awhile
And can I be a friend, well forget the past
But maybe Im not able
And I break at the bend

Were here and now, but will we ever be again
cause I have found
All that shimmers in this world is sure to fade
Away again

She dreams a champagne dream
Strawberry surprise, pink linen and white paper
Lavender and cream
Fields of butterflies, reality escapes her
She says that love is for fools who fall behind
And Im somewhere in between
I never really know
A killer from a savior
til I break at the bend

Its too far away for me to hold
Its too far away...

Guess Ill let it go



now if you want some rap lyrics..ok..my kid likes it...heres some yung joc(i like it also)

what i posted was not rap or klingon..it was filter.

And that's the problem. Therefore, we fixed the problem, making it Klingon Rap.

WARNING:
EXTREME RHYTHM OVERLOAD.
SEVERE HARMONY AND MELODY DEFICIENCIES MAY COMPROMISE STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY
CHORD STRUCTURE RECOMMENDED TO AVERT COMPLETE SYSTEM FAILURE




you want to listen to music?

two suggestions:

Saltarello (Symphony #4 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B000003QWH003002/ref=mu_sam_wma_003_002/002-2878449-4850427))

Simon and Garfunkel (Hazy shade of winter (http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00002MZ41001007/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_007/002-2878449-4850427))

BUT RAP IS OMG TERRIBLE. ITS ALL ABOUT BLACK PEOPLES KILLING TEH COPS AND DOING DRUGS AND HAVING SEX. AND ALL THEY DO IS TALK.

heh.

I've given rap an objective listen before.. there's just not much I like about it. It's usually very repetitive, and often plain monotonous.. sort of like listening to a dot-matrix printer at work, if anyone's old enough to remember those.. ;) And, of course, the lyrics don't usually speak to me, although that's up to the individual artist.. my other criticisms are more categorical.

BUT RAP IS OMG TERRIBLE. ITS ALL ABOUT BLACK PEOPLES KILLING TEH COPS AND DOING DRUGS AND HAVING SEX. AND ALL THEY DO IS TALK.

heh.

Yeah, rappers just shoot each other. ;)

I'm a huge fan of rap...just not the commerical stuff, 50 cent and the like. That, like any mainstream music, is okay once and a while, sort of like MacDonald's, but basically empty calories. I love Spanish rap (La Mala Rodriguez) or Cuban rap (Los Orishas), I like French rap (Manau), and even some Albanian rap I can't understand a word of :D I like a lot of Canadian hip hop...K-os is fantastic.

It's like any genre of music these days. The mindless crap gets all the radio play, and you have to hunt for the decent stuff, the stuff with a message and decent artistry. Just saying, 'I hate rap because I listened to emininem once and it sucked' is like me saying, 'I hate rock and roll because Nickleback ruined it for me.

It's like any genre of music these days. The mindless crap gets all the radio play, and you have to hunt for the decent stuff, the stuff with a message and decent artistry. Just saying, 'I hate rap because I listened to emininem once and it sucked' is like me saying, 'I hate rock and roll because Nickleback ruined it for me.

Exactly. :)

Yeah, rappers just shoot each other. ;)

Technically, the proper term for someone who performs rap would be "Rapist" (Pronounced Rap-ist. As in the word "rap" followed by "ist.) For obvious reasons, this isn't used...

I'm a huge fan of rap...just not the commerical stuff

....commie.

Technically, the proper term for someone who performs rap would be "Rapist" (Pronounced Rap-ist. As in the word "rap" followed by "ist.) For obvious reasons, this isn't used...

I hope you're just making a joke, because there is no "technical" rule on this. Otherwise what... people who work are called workists, people who sing are called singists? heh

That's right, rap music or "hip hop" if you will is fucking awesome. Im a punk who loves MCs and DJs. I fucking hate pretentious wankers who look down on rap music and make stupid (subconsciously racist?) comments like "its not real music, its just someone talking". Shut up. You clearly know nothing. Being a good rapper is more than just talking; it relies on flow, pitch, timing, speed, enunciation, etc. I mean for fucks sake, one of you guys who criticise rappers for being untalentened try just talking over a beat and see how it compares.

Some people make legitimate criticisms over the content of rap music(glorification of street violence, sexist statements, homophobic remarks, bling bling culture etc). However this comes from an obsessive observance of a certain section of mainstream rap. Ultimately these criticisms are a product of a narrow view of a narrow segment of hip hop music as a whole. Many artists have socially uplifting messages, anti-drug messsages, political commentaries, etc. Just because some rappers who are funded by corporate record labels and given money for product placement get on tv and the radio and act like mysogynistic materialistic muggers doesnt mean that is what represents the overall rap community as a whole.

Peace. Ha.

You fail at life.

Stop humping my leg.

Let me pollute your precious bodily fluids!

....commie.

Stop humping my leg.

I've got much nicer bits to hump.

Technically, the proper term for someone who performs rap would be "Rapist" (Pronounced Rap-ist. As in the word "rap" followed by "ist.) For obvious reasons, this isn't used...

Ooh, ooh! This reminds me of that episode of Stoker & Hoop where they are hired to protect this rapper named Killer Rapist. Crazy episode. :D

Let me pollute your precious bodily fluids!

Alright, but you only get to call me commie when I'm REALLY into it, okay?

Technically, the proper term for someone who performs rap would be "Rapist" (Pronounced Rap-ist. As in the word "rap" followed by "ist.)

"Rappist", actually - to preserve the short "a."

But unless you would suggest that all educators be renamed "teachists", I don't think you have much of a case.

Technically, the proper term for someone who performs rap would be "Rapist" (Pronounced Rap-ist. As in the word "rap" followed by "ist.) For obvious reasons, this isn't used...

I always just called the people who rap at me when I'm walking around rapping bums.

"Rappist", actually - to preserve the short "a."

But unless you would suggest that all educators be renamed "teachists", I don't think you have much of a case.

Damn. It'd be funny.

you want to listen to music?

two suggestions:

Saltarello (Symphony #4 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B000003QWH003002/ref=mu_sam_wma_003_002/002-2878449-4850427))

Don't get me wrong, I'm a classical musician (although I'm more fond of older stuff, like Brahms), but there's no difference between classical music and rap when you get to the core of things. Sure, the trimmings couldn't be more diverse, but both seek to do the exact same thing through the exact same means. Art doesn't change because of the skill, training, or the complexity that goes into it. It is art either way.

Both types of music have their place in the world, and both types can co-exist harmoniously. I'm much more concerned with what the composers have to say than I am with how they say it.

there's no difference between classical music and rap when you get to the core of things. Sure, the trimmings couldn't be more diverse, but both seek to do the exact same thing through the exact same means.

Not at all. Rap relies almost exclusively on the meaning of words to convey its message. Classical music relies almost exclusively on the music itself.

But I think we just disagree on everything when it comes to music, so I don't want to argue this. as long as we can agree that i'm right.

Not at all. Rap relies almost exclusively on the meaning of words to convey its message. Classical music relies almost exclusively on the music itself.

But I think we just disagree on everything when it comes to music, so I don't want to argue this. as long as we can agree that i'm right.

Fair point. Classical music is much more abstract, and so message is much more difficult to convey. However, both do, essentially, seek to express. The goal remains the same, it's just that one has it easier than the other.

And I think that everyone disagrees with me about music, so I'm used to agreeing to disagree.

Fair point. Classical music is much more abstract, and so message is much more difficult to convey. However, both do, essentially, seek to express. The goal remains the same, it's just that one has it easier than the other.

Which one had it easier?

But yeah, all music tries to express. All people do.

And I think that everyone disagrees with me about music, so I'm used to agreeing to disagree.

The annoying thing about you though is you are similar to me in musical education and such, so when you disagree I can't just call you a dufus layman who doesn't know anything. Instead I have to think. BASTARD. :p

That's right, rap music or "hip hop" if you will is fucking awesome. Im a punk who loves MCs and DJs. I fucking hate pretentious wankers who look down on rap music and make stupid (subconsciously racist?) comments like "its not real music, its just someone talking". Shut up. You clearly know nothing. Being a good rapper is more than just talking; it relies on flow, pitch, timing, speed, enunciation, etc. I mean for fucks sake, one of you guys who criticise rappers for being untalentened try just talking over a beat and see how it compares.

Some people make legitimate criticisms over the content of rap music(glorification of street violence, sexist statements, homophobic remarks, bling bling culture etc). However this comes from an obsessive observance of a certain section of mainstream rap. Ultimately these criticisms are a product of a narrow view of a narrow segment of hip hop music as a whole. Many artists have socially uplifting messages, anti-drug messsages, political commentaries, etc. Just because some rappers who are funded by corporate record labels and given money for product placement get on tv and the radio and act like mysogynistic materialistic muggers doesnt mean that is what represents the overall rap community as a whole.

Peace. Ha.
word

Which one had it easier?

What, in specific, are they trying to express? When it comes to concrete concepts, like anger at the economic situation of African Americans in inner-city America, rap has it much easier. When it came to presenting the feeling of pre-war tension in Europe prior to WWI, Classical Music had it much easier than Rap would have had it, had it existed at the time.

The annoying thing about you though is you are similar to me in musical education and such, so when you disagree I can't just call you a dufus layman who doesn't know anything. Instead I have to think. BASTARD. :p

That's why I'm the only member of most student orchestra's that I am in who actually bothers to remember the lectures of conductors. I know I can bring it back here and use it to infuriate you. :p

Indie doesn't mean "selfless and altruistic."

And I am talking about "industry" here. Not the music - just like you were.



On what basis is the rap and hip-hop genre en masse motivated to "sell out?"



I don't need statistics to disprove your "90% effects" statement. You need something backing it up besides your own opinion. Until you do all I need is my own, expert, opinion to negate your assertion.


If we are talking about two differnt things then we cant really debate eachother- other than with immature use of strawmen.... which im willing too do.

When did I say Indie meant "selfless and altruistic?" From what i've seen, the genre has shyed from insane popularity of VH1 and MTV, not so much as other genres at least.

On what basis do they sell out? When 15 out of VH1's top 20 are hip hop videos. =/

You can't negate my assertion with simply an opinion of your own...

Rap sucks

Erm, if you're excluding small time Indie bands, and most of the punk genre, then yes, all music is meant too sell out. I take the term industry lightly, if not improperly used too convey what I wanted. I meant "genre" more so. As for your assurance, i'd take very warmly too statistics proving so. Thats fine that you don't like punk.

You are forgetting the Creative Commons scene. Even though it might seem strange, you are prefectly able to find non-commercial non-sellout pop. :>

http://www.mitchclem.com/rockcity/index.php?comic=90:D

some rap music is equivalent in impact to "intellectual, high art" poetry, in fact its more enjoyable and profound at times than such poetry as at least its not experimental in the sense of being really really shit

The major criticism I have of rap is that musically its rubbish most of the time, the beats are simplistic and prissy, the music is prissy and sounds like it was knocked together on pro tools in five mins. The older stuff is better by comparison. That said I prefer rap to crappy indie bands

Who the fuck cares? Personally, i don't like rap. But hey thats just me. Just because i dont like it im not saying its not real music or anything. i still accept it as music even though its not my kind of music

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/NuGo1988/Hip-hop.jpg

I like rap.

It filled that void that rock left when it became a big pussy money maker.

At least I can hear a few good songs on the rap station when all the rock station will play is Nickleback, Hinder, Stonesour, Three Days Grace and all of those other bands that suck in the exact same way.

I can't say I'm particularly thrilled with rap, myself. The stuff I've heard doesn't really appeal to me from a musical standpoint. Nonetheless, I think it's fair to say that capitalist commercialization hasn't had the best impact on rap. And at least the lyrics aren't as unintelligible as some genres out there...

Don't get me wrong, I'm a classical musician (although I'm more fond of older stuff, like Brahms), but there's no difference between classical music and rap when you get to the core of things. Sure, the trimmings couldn't be more diverse, but both seek to do the exact same thing through the exact same means. Art doesn't change because of the skill, training, or the complexity that goes into it. It is art either way.

Both types of music have their place in the world, and both types can co-exist harmoniously. I'm much more concerned with what the composers have to say than I am with how they say it.

yea: because rap and classical have so much in common :rolleyes:

rap lacks any sense of harmony, rarely has a melody, and I have yet to hear a rhythm played at a reasonable volume.

I am in no way arguing that they cannot coexist, I am merely arguing that one of them is not 'music' in any sense of the word.

yea: because rap and classical have so much in common :rolleyes:

They have all the common characteristics needed to call something "music".

rap lacks any sense of harmony, rarely has a melody, and I have yet to hear a rhythm played at a reasonable volume.

First off, I have heard plenty of rap that has a "sense of harmony" but that much of rap does not concentrate on harmony does not preclude it from being music, the same goes for melody.

And what are you talking about with that part about rhythm.

I am in no way arguing that they cannot coexist, I am merely arguing that one of them is not 'music' in any sense of the word.[/QUOTE]

Beacuse you have such a firm grasp on what is music and what isn't it.

Beacuse you have such a firm grasp on what is music and what isn't it.

rap is music the way graffiti is art, take that as you will.

in my eyes, neither are.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/NuGo1988/Hip-hop.jpg

Thats so funny. Just so funny. It just demonstrates such a great understanding of the genre. HAHAHAHA. HAHAHAHA. god, I just cant get over how funny it is. Seriously. The humour. My god.

Intersections in real time
The umbro can circle in dimensions of the mind
Atomic bonds
The eternal time that defines
The vanity of my insanity in thru time
Will shine
Like the night seeds under the moon
The haunted corners of familiar rooms
Yet i'm consumed
With vanishing into thin air
The realization that this shit is my cross to bare
So where
Did I think I could run away to see
The people that decided to leave without asking me
But we
Decide to wait for happier tomorrows
And find someone so they can be distractions from our sorrows
For my distractions the books of paper that i've scrawlened
I'm eloquent in summer breeze and leaves just have fallen
I crawl in a corner hoping all of this will end
With the knowledge that love is just another word for revenge
I who have nothing but the comfort of my sins
I who have nothing but the comfort of my friends

Chorus:

I, I who have nothing
I, I who have no
I, I who have nothing
I, I who have no

I don't care much for lyrics. They - and the usage of the human voice in general - is just an annoyance most of the time. Hence, rap has pretty much nothing whatsoever to offer me, and I find it absolutely useless. Some good, atmospheric trance without any excessive singing or speaking and free from cheesy human voice effects is my preferred music.

Thats so funny. Just so funny. It just demonstrates such a great understanding of the genre. HAHAHAHA. HAHAHAHA. god, I just cant get over how funny it is. Seriously. The humour. My god.

Thanks, you just made my sarcasm detector explode. Now there's bits of a dial stuck in my face.

What I don't understand is how vehemently opposed so many people are to rap. Okay, we get it, you don't like it...move on. You don't even hear people dissing shit like Spears/Lohan/Duff they way they do rap, and going on about how 'that isn't music'. It's like people think they are demonstrating some sort of intellectual superiority inherent in not liking rap.

That's right, rap music or "hip hop" if you will is fucking awesome. Im a punk who loves MCs and DJs. I fucking hate pretentious wankers who look down on rap music and make stupid (subconsciously racist?) comments like "its not real music, its just someone talking". Shut up. You clearly know nothing. Being a good rapper is more than just talking; it relies on flow, pitch, timing, speed, enunciation, etc. I mean for fucks sake, one of you guys who criticise rappers for being untalentened try just talking over a beat and see how it compares.

Some people make legitimate criticisms over the content of rap music(glorification of street violence, sexist statements, homophobic remarks, bling bling culture etc). However this comes from an obsessive observance of a certain section of mainstream rap. Ultimately these criticisms are a product of a narrow view of a narrow segment of hip hop music as a whole. Many artists have socially uplifting messages, anti-drug messsages, political commentaries, etc. Just because some rappers who are funded by corporate record labels and given money for product placement get on tv and the radio and act like mysogynistic materialistic muggers doesnt mean that is what represents the overall rap community as a whole.

Peace. Ha.
yeah doggg
i see exactly where your comin from
i myself ahd layed down soem tracks and its not easy
so all yall need to STEP OFF!

rap is music the way graffiti is art, take that as you will.

in my eyes, neither are.

That means absolutely nothing, and I doubt that you can come up with any meaningful explanation as to why rap isn't music.

rap is music the way graffiti is art, take that as you will.

in my eyes, neither are.

Oh yes, this is even better...someone who has had a cursory introduction to certain genres of rap, and now feels qualified to remark on all of them. Again, this would be like me judging all rock and roll by Nickleback. *shudders*

What I don't understand is how vehemently opposed so many people are to rap. Okay, we get it, you don't like it...move on. You don't even hear people dissing shit like Spears/Lohan/Duff they way they do rap, and going on about how 'that isn't music'. It's like people think they are demonstrating some sort of intellectual superiority inherent in not liking rap.

When in fact what they're really doing is demonstrating a complete ignorance of music as a whole and the genre specifically.

When in fact what they're really doing is demonstrating a complete ignorance of music as a whole and the genre specifically.

But wait...rap isn't music, so na na na na na :p

Some of my favourite rappers out there use live bands. Los Orishas, for example, have an entire horn section, three percussionist, a basist, guitarists, and a DJ. K-os has a live band. There is plenty of melody, and plenty of singing in addition to the rapping.

So seriously, to the 'it isn't music crowd'...STFU.

I should read it then, the next Shakespeare play I was going to read was The Tempest, or maybe King Lear.
Tempest was alot more fun to read after I saw a performance where Prospero was female. Set off lots of fun power dynamics. King Lear is just badass.

When in fact what they're really doing is demonstrating a complete ignorance of music as a whole and the genre specifically.

better they prove it themselves, rather than one of us having to do it.

Oh yes, this is even better...someone who has had a cursory introduction to certain genres of rap, and now feels qualified to remark on all of them. Again, this would be like me judging all rock and roll by Nickleback. *shudders*
No, actually his statement was much more surreal than that. A better analogy would for you to base your judgments of rock and roll upon 1950s Pop Art.

Oh yes, this is even better...someone who has had a cursory introduction to certain genres of rap, and now feels qualified to remark on all of them. Again, this would be like me judging all rock and roll by Nickleback. *shudders*

Actually the more popular rappers tend to have talent, unlike the more popular rock musicians.

yea: because rap and classical have so much in common :rolleyes:

They are both music.

rap lacks any sense of harmony

Nonsense. NO genre lacks harmony. Even homophonic chant is harmonious because of the overtone system. And rap is not at all homophonic anyway. Maybe you mean your own personal subjective sense of what harmony is, instead of what harmony actually is.

rarely has a melody

Unsubstantiated bullshit.

and I have yet to hear a rhythm played at a reasonable volume.

Huh. No rhythm either? I guess all those repeating, patterned sounds are just in my head. Thank you for being the thorazine in my schizophrenic delusion.

I am in no way arguing that they cannot coexist, I am merely arguing that one of them is not 'music' in any sense of the word.

Just because you don't like it does not make it not-music. Period.

Next.

Actually the more popular rappers tend to have talent, unlike the more popular rock musicians.

Hahahahahaa....well to each his own...

What I don't understand is how vehemently opposed so many people are to rap. Okay, we get it, you don't like it...move on. You don't even hear people dissing shit like Spears/Lohan/Duff they way they do rap, and going on about how 'that isn't music'. It's like people think they are demonstrating some sort of intellectual superiority inherent in not liking rap.Though a casual glance at this thread certainly proves that some people do bitch about it in a futile attempt to make themselves look good, it's not the whole reason & I believe not the prominant reason.

Mainstream rap & hiphop constitutes an assault on the morality of some people. It glorifies everything social creatures with a preference for peace & prosperity simply cannot tolerate. It's also alien to what some people readily associate with music.

The effect of that combination is basically a form of aversion therapy. Just like most westerners need to make an effort to learn to appreciate music from other cultures, some (mostly my age & upwards) people need to do the same with rap & hiphop. Only people never get a chance to, because the shit bombards them with messages they percieve as wrong. And when all media plays the shit all the time, it becomes a very form of effective aversion therapy.

I know it from myself. I'm the (these days not so-) proud owner of a fairly large collection of indie rap, yet I haven't listened to the shit since .. I guess around '90 or so. It's not that I suddenly stopped liking the music genere, it's just that I can't even fucking think about it without also thinking about how the formerly beloved scene that used to be about dancing & social issues, got transformed to the exact opposite. Whatever.. I'll just hate it & be very fucking vocal about it, and occationally put on some good old shit & pretend the cult didn't turn into a fucking nightmare.

I am in no way arguing that they cannot coexist, I am merely arguing that one of them is not 'music' in any sense of the word.
A raga is no music for you as well? :rolleyes: Music is far more than the borinfg classical music, which many people consider the gold standard!

I know it from myself. I'm the (these days not so-) proud owner of a fairly large collection of indie rap, yet I haven't listened to the shit since .. I guess around '90 or so. It's not that I suddenly stopped liking the music genere, it's just that I can't even fucking think about it without also thinking about how the formerly beloved scene that used to be about dancing & social issues, got transformed to the exact opposite. Whatever.. I'll just hate it & be very fucking vocal about it, and occationally put on some good old shit & pretend the cult didn't turn into a fucking nightmare.

Look elsewhere. There is plenty of good English-language rap with a social message that will be familiar to you out there. It just isn't coming from the US for the most part.

Hahahahahaa....well to each his own...

Well you mentioned Nickleback:

http://www.thewebshite.net/nickelback.htm

Look elsewhere. There is plenty of good English-language rap with a social message that will be familiar to you out there. It just isn't coming from the US for the most part.

Not true:

Go out and get some Nas, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Common, Aesop Rock, The Roots, Jurassic 5, Cee Lo Green and many others.

I would suggest Mos Def's "Mathematics" (http://www.musicgalore.net/new/db3/M/9dff0172a21603b8a07a15a1b65ab4233457-Mos-Def/f8802d00c6d5560d388e46bc4df9e7a316143-Black-On-Both-Sides/c2645afa765cf263e829aa6981a7098c204217-Mathematics/) as a cure for what ails you.

EDIT:

Some lyrics while you listen:

Booka-booka-booka-booka-booka-booka
Ha hah
You know the deal
It's just me yo
Beats by Su-Primo for all of my peoples, negroes and latinos
and even the gringos

Yo, check it one for Charlie Hustle, two for Steady Rock
Three for the fourth comin live, future shock
It's five dimensions, six senses
Seven firmaments of heaven to hell, 8 Million Stories to tell
Nine planets faithfully keep in orbit
with the probable tenth, the universe expands length
The body of my text posess extra strength
Power-liftin powerless up, out of this, towerin inferno
My ink so hot it burn through the journal
I'm blacker than midnight on Broadway and Myrtle
Hip-Hop past all your tall social hurdles
like the nationwide projects, prison-industry complex
Broken glass wall better keep your alarm set
Streets too loud to ever hear freedom sing
Say evacuate your sleep, it's dangerous to dream
but you chain cats get they CHA-POW, who dead now
Killin fields need blood to graze the cash cow
It's a number game, but shit don't add up somehow
Like I got, sixteen to thirty-two bars to rock it
but only 15% of profits, ever see my pockets like
sixty-nine billion in the last twenty years
spent on national defense but folks still live in fear like
nearly half of America's largest cities is one-quarter black
That's why they gave Ricky Ross all the crack
Sixteen ounces to a pound, twenty more to a ki
A five minute sentence hearing and you no longer free
40% of Americans own a cell phone
so they can hear, everything that you say when you ain't home
I guess, Michael Jackson was right, "You Are Not Alone"
Rock your hardhat black cause you in the Terrordome
full of hard niggaz, large niggaz, dice tumblers
Young teens and prison greens facin life numbers
Crack mothers, crack babies and AIDS patients
Young bloods can't spell but they could rock you in PlayStation
This new math is whippin motherfuckers ass
You wanna know how to rhyme you better learn how to add
It's mathematics

[Chorus: scratched by DJ Premier (repeat 2X)]

"The Mighty Mos Def.."
"It's simple mathematics" -> [Fat Joe]
"Check it out!"
"I revolve around science.."
"What are we talking about here?"

.. "Do your math" -> [Erykah Badu (2X)]
.. "One.. t-t-two.. three, four" -> [James Brown]
.. "What are we talking about here?" ..

[Mos Def]
Yo, it's one universal law but two sides to every story
Three strikes and you be in for life, manditory
Four MC's murdered in the last four years
I ain't tryin to be the fifth one, the millenium is here
Yo it's 6 Million Ways to Die, from the seven deadly thrills
Eight-year olds gettin found with 9 mill's
It's 10 P.M., where your seeds at? What's the deal
He on the hill puffin krill to keep they belly filled
Light in the ass with heavy steel, sights on the pretty shit in life
Young soldiers tryin to earn they next stripe
When the average minimum wage is $5.15
You best believe you gotta find a new ground to get cream
The white unemployment rate, is nearly more than triple for black
so frontliners got they gun in your back
Bubblin crack, jewel theft and robbery to combat poverty
and end up in the global jail economy
Stiffer stipulations attached to each sentence
Budget cutbacks but increased police presence
And even if you get out of prison still livin
join the other five million under state supervision
This is business, no faces just lines and statistics
from your phone, your zip code, to S-S-I digits
The system break man child and women into figures
Two columns for who is, and who ain't niggaz
Numbers is hardly real and they never have feelings
but you push too hard, even numbers got limits
Why did one straw break the camel's back? Here's the secret:
the million other straws underneath it - it's all mathematics

Not true:

Go out and get some Nas, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Common, Aesop Rock, The Roots, Jurassic 5, Cee Lo Green and many others.

I would suggest Mos Def's "Mathematics" (http://www.musicgalore.net/new/db3/M/9dff0172a21603b8a07a15a1b65ab4233457-Mos-Def/f8802d00c6d5560d388e46bc4df9e7a316143-Black-On-Both-Sides/c2645afa765cf263e829aa6981a7098c204217-Mathematics/) as a cure for what ails you.

Alright, alright, I concede. I'm just biased because I like non-English rap more :D

Nas, The Roots and Mos Def I'm very familiar with though.

Since we're sharing...check out Los Orishas:

http://www.orishasthebest.com/Index2.html

Under multimedia, click on Audio, then click on any of the albums to load the tracks and take a listen. Live music for the most part, very melodic, and great raps.

The album 'El Kilo' is the best...listen to track 7 on that album.

Since we're sharing...check out Los Orishas:

http://www.orishasthebest.com/Index2.html

Under multimedia, click on Audio, then click on any of the albums to load the tracks and take a listen. Live music for the most part, very melodic, and great raps.

The album 'El Kilo' is the best...listen to track 7 on that album.

It sounds good, but if I can't catch the lyrics, I'm lost.

Alright, alright, I concede. I'm just biased because I like non-English rap more :D

Nas, The Roots and Mos Def I'm very familiar with though.Seconded, and yea.. I usually avoid mainstream music altogether. Every time I turn on the radio I feel like I'm in a remake of the Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

It sounds good, but if I can't catch the lyrics, I'm lost.

MUAHAHAHAHAHA:)

I know, it's such a shame though, great political stuff, fantastic social commentary. Honestly, music is the reason I keep up my language learning.

Seconded, and yea.. I usually avoid mainstream music altogether. Every time I turn on the radio I feel like I'm in a remake of the Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

The worst is hearing the same songs, at the same time of the day...it's so creepy!

MUAHAHAHAHAHA:)

I know, it's such a shame though, great political stuff, fantastic social commentary. Honestly, music is the reason I keep up my language learning.

That is the great potential of rap. Nearly all rock bands you hear from today come from middle class suburb/small-city backgrounds, and there is almost nothing authentic to it.

Music, like all art, is about the emotion it conveys to the listener, and there is no substitute for bringing an authentic sound.

Alright, alright, I concede. I'm just biased because I like non-English rap more :D

Nas, The Roots and Mos Def I'm very familiar with though.

If you like Mos Def, then check out Talib Kweli, his old partner from Black Star, and you might like The Coup also--imagine Black Panther politics rap mixed with George Clinton pfunk.

The way I see it... Rap is just another genre of music. Obviously everyone has different taste and will listen to whatever music floats their boat, but I think whats more important is to at least have some respect for the artform. Theres always the corporatized, marketed, mainstream MTV crap... and then theres the REAL thing. I think its more important to make a distinction between the two.

If you like Mos Def, then check out Talib Kweli, his old partner from Black Star, and you might like The Coup also--imagine Black Panther politics rap mixed with George Clinton pfunk.

Or the Battle of Klack'te'kell'rath, the famed Klingon Rap group.


No, I'm not going to stop talking about Klingon Rap.

The way I see it... Rap is just another genre of music. Obviously everyone has different taste and will listen to whatever music floats their boat, but I think whats more important is to at least have some respect for the artform. Theres always the corporatized, marketed, mainstream MTV crap... and then theres the REAL thing. I think its more important to make a distinction between the two.

Thank you.

Though this approach is MUCH too rational for the stuck-up phoneys who have Mozart stuck thorougly up their ass, with no room for anything else.

Love Mozart by the way.

Sorry I'm a pretentious wankers who likes real music.

Sorry I'm a pretentious wankers who likes real music.

Real music(TM) is a registered trademark.

Sorry I'm a pretentious wankers who likes real music.

No, you're a pretentious wanker who thinks that his personal taste in music defines music.

I don't like most political rap though since alot of it ends up having nation of islam anti-white messages...

I'll stick to listening to Slayer. Christ Illusion ftw.

No, you're a pretentious wanker who thinks that his personal taste in music defines music.

What?

Sure, everyone listens to it, a "We Fly High" here and a "Real Slim Shady" there, but people act like it's the best thing since The Beatles

I don't like most political rap though since alot of it ends up having nation of islam anti-white messages...:rolleyes:

Right, because it all political rap must be in the same political vein...

No, you're a pretentious wanker who thinks that his personal taste in music defines music.

To reinstate my point:

*cough*

To reinstate my point:

*cough*

Did you do that while bending over?

And it's 'restate' unless you admit your statement was overthrown at one point.

That's right, rap music or "hip hop" if you will is fucking awesome. Im a punk who loves MCs and DJs. I fucking hate pretentious wankers who look down on rap music and make stupid (subconsciously racist?) comments like "its not real music, its just someone talking". Shut up. You clearly know nothing. Being a good rapper is more than just talking; it relies on flow, pitch, timing, speed, enunciation, etc. I mean for fucks sake, one of you guys who criticise rappers for being untalentened try just talking over a beat and see how it compares.

Some people make legitimate criticisms over the content of rap music(glorification of street violence, sexist statements, homophobic remarks, bling bling culture etc). However this comes from an obsessive observance of a certain section of mainstream rap. Ultimately these criticisms are a product of a narrow view of a narrow segment of hip hop music as a whole. Many artists have socially uplifting messages, anti-drug messsages, political commentaries, etc. Just because some rappers who are funded by corporate record labels and given money for product placement get on tv and the radio and act like mysogynistic materialistic muggers doesnt mean that is what represents the overall rap community as a whole.

Peace. I am a massive wanker. Visit me at http://wankerland.net!



Um, yeah. OK. Other music is harder, though, and no matter how "hard" it is to rap, that doesn't make it good. I'm sure hacking into CIA databases is pretty hard, but that doesn't necessarily make it a good thing to do. Anyway, most of the rap I've heard is just some guy going on about prostitutes, drugs, etc. It may well be hard to learn to rap properly, but it is really always the same rythm. It is also hard to learn to play instruments, and to sing, and if you compare the likes of Eminem to the likes of the red hot chili peppers, the latter is always the best.

What?

Sure, everyone listens to it, a "We Fly High" here and a "Real Slim Shady" there, but people act like it's the best thing since The Beatles

I don't listen to it.

Did you do that while bending over?

And it's 'restate' unless you admit your statement was overthrown at one point.

I did mean reinstate, due to the fact "What" didn't really explain my point by the way.

Oh, good comeback, by the way. Go listen to your c-rap you fucking punk.

:rolleyes:

Right, because it all political rap must be in the same political vein...

If you look at a dictionary, you'll notice that the words 'all' and 'alot' have different definitions. Maybe I should reiterate: alot of American rap with social messages tends to be anti-white and nation of islam biased.

I don't listen to it.

Not ever? I don't mean consistently listen, I just meant like hearing it once or twice.

Not ever? I don't mean consistently listen, I just meant like hearing it once or twice.

Not willingly. Unless you consider Ska Punk to be rap. Which you shouldn't.

Not willingly. Unless you consider Ska Punk to be rap. Which you shouldn't.

I don't.

I don't.

Never willingly, then.

I always find it funny when someone says the despise rap and then goes on to say that they love punk music.:D Yeaaah, Green Day is so much better than DMX.:p

I did mean reinstate, due to the fact "What" didn't really explain my point by the way.

Oh, good comeback, by the way. Go listen to your c-rap you fucking punk.

Hahahahahaa...and right now you're picturing me as a pimpled 17 year old living in a suburb, aren't you?

Hahahahahaa...and right now you're picturing me as a pimpled 17 year old living in a suburb, aren't you?

No, I'm thinking you as the stereotypical rap-loving thug asshole that lives in the projects, why?

If you look at a dictionary, you'll notice that the words 'all' and 'alot' have different definitions. Maybe I should reiterate: alot of American rap with social messages tends to be anti-white and nation of islam biased.

Better, but the distinction is lost on me, I'm just a fucking punk :p

And once again, we fall to defining a genre by eminem.

Nickleback! You killed rock! You bastards!

Better, but the distinction is lost on me, I'm just a fucking punk :p

I usually assume when people mention rap they mean American rap. Ethnocentric yes, but around here listening to Albanian rappers, [white] Canadian rappers, anyone who isn't black seems unauthentic. Don't know why, just seems to be a city bias.

Although, I wonder why people think that music needs a sociopolitical message in order to be considered good nowadays. Don't rhythm, flowing/vivid/deep lyrics (any one of those), speed (personally prefer music that's fast as hell), etc. count?

And once again, we fall to defining a genre by eminem.

Nickleback! You killed rock! You bastards!

No, Eminem would go under your first description, dear sir.

No, Eminem would go under your first description, dear sir.

making assuptions make you look like an idiot. Just a heads up.

No, Eminem would go under your first description, dear sir.

making assuptions make you look like an idiot. Just a heads up.

Rap is missing the C.

Seriously though, I hate rap, I hate the way that you just talk fast, and it's required for you to have a cuss word every other word, and God forbid you actually show any creativity in your 'rapping', you just spew out the same crap as everyone else. Also as to the beat, I actually listened to an instrumental version of a rap song, and guess what, it's just a 10 second sample played in a loop. Nothing intresting to be seen there. Also, none of these 'rappers' actually play their own instrument while 'rapping'.

Rap just suck beyond any sane and normal reasons.

Don't tell that to the Klingons. They'll stab you with a Batt'leth.

Rap is missing the C.

Seriously though, I hate rap, I hate the way that you just talk fast, and it's required for you to have a cuss word every other word, and God forbid you actually show any creativity in your 'rapping', you just spew out the same crap as everyone else. Also as to the beat, I actually listened to an instrumental version of a rap song, and guess what, it's just a 10 second sample played in a loop. Nothing intresting to be seen there. Also, none of these 'rappers' actually play their own instrument while 'rapping'.

Rap just suck beyond any sane and normal reasons.

Rap is missing the C.

Seriously though, I hate rap, I hate the way that you just talk fast, and it's required for you to have a cuss word every other word, and God forbid you actually show any creativity in your 'rapping', you just spew out the same crap as everyone else. Also as to the beat, I actually listened to an instrumental version of a rap song, and guess what, it's just a 10 second sample played in a loop. Nothing intresting to be seen there. Also, none of these 'rappers' actually play their own instrument while 'rapping'.

Rap just suck beyond any sane and normal reasons.

^^
What he said.

.

Although, I wonder why people think that music needs a sociopolitical message in order to be considered good nowadays. Don't rhythm, flowing/vivid/deep lyrics (any one of those), speed (personally prefer music that's fast as hell), etc. count?

Depends...sometimes I look for a message first, musicality second, and at other times its the other way around. But someone just randomly babbling about the grit between their toes isn't going to last long in my music collection, no matter how excellent the music.

^^
What he said.

Then the two of you are listening to one style of rap, and judging the rest on your limited exposure.

Shame on you for being such shoddy researchers.

making assuptions make you look like an idiot. Just a heads up.
That's okay, it's funny to be called sir....though not nearly as funny as being called a fucking punk. My students would love that :D

Then the two of you are listening to one style of rap, and judging the rest on your limited exposure.

Shame on you for being such shoddy researchers.

I'd prefer rock, any kind of rock really.

Then the two of you are listening to one style of rap, and judging the rest on your limited exposure.

Shame on you for being such shoddy researchers.

Why is it when people say rap they are clearly "dictating what kind of music is 'good'" yet when you say rap is good you aren't?

I'd prefer rock, any kind of rock really.

And that's fine. But I doubt you'd be okay with me making stupid declarations about rock being nothing but a bunk of hairbags screaming at the top of their lungs while randomly plucking at guitar strings.

By the way, I'm a huge fan of rock. But that doesn't mean I like Nickleback.

Rap is missing the C.

Seriously though, I hate rap, I hate the way that you just talk fast, and it's required for you to have a cuss word every other word, and God forbid you actually show any creativity in your 'rapping', you just spew out the same crap as everyone else. Also as to the beat, I actually listened to an instrumental version of a rap song, and guess what, it's just a 10 second sample played in a loop. Nothing intresting to be seen there. Also, none of these 'rappers' actually play their own instrument while 'rapping'.

Rap just suck beyond any sane and normal reasons.

^^
What he said.


Now that we have identified who hasn't made an attempt to listen to rap or confirm their stereotypes, we can exclude them from the conversation.

Rap is missing the C.

LOL THATS FUNNY AND ORIGINAL!

Seriously though, I hate rap

That's OK. Some people hate Jews. You're allowed your hate... but don't expect me to buy the supposed reasons you do.

I hate the way that you just talk fast, and it's required for you to have a cuss word every other word

Required by whom?

Enforced by whom?

Examples of this "cuss word every other word?"

and God forbid you actually show any creativity in your 'rapping', you just spew out the same crap as everyone else.

Wait, so it's all actually the same song?

Also as to the beat, I actually listened to an instrumental version of a rap song, and guess what, it's just a 10 second sample played in a loop. Nothing intresting to be seen there.

One song.

From which all rap is "crap."

Also, none of these 'rappers' actually play their own instrument while 'rapping'.

The voice is a musical instrument.

Rap just suck beyond any sane and normal reasons.

I'm normal. I'm sane.

So hey, balls in your court now. Prove that rap has requirements about swear words, every other word. Prove that every single rap song is the same as every other one. Prove that making a generalization based on one song is a valid thing to do. Prove that the human voice is not a musical instrument, and prove that I'm abnormal and insane.

:)

And that's fine. But I doubt you'd be okay with me making stupid declarations about rock being nothing but a bunk of hairbags screaming at the top of their lungs while randomly plucking at guitar strings.

By the way, I'm a huge fan of rock. But that doesn't mean I like Nickleback.

Eh Nickleback is ok, I like the older stuff though.

Depends...sometimes I look for a message first, musicality second, and at other times its the other way around. But someone just randomly babbling about the grit between their toes isn't going to last long in my music collection, no matter how excellent the music.

I find that if I just pay attention, what I like about the music will come to me without me having to look for anything.

I'd prefer rock, any kind of rock really.

That probably lays to rest any credibility your taste in music may have had.

Why is it when people say rap they are clearly "dictating what kind of music is 'good'" yet when you say rap is good you aren't?

First off, we are saying that people are using their tastes to determine what is music, not what is good music.

Secondly, we are not saying that rap music is good (it is in my opinion), we are saying that they are bringing up negatives that are not prevalent amongst rap music.

Why is it when people say rap they are clearly "dictating what kind of music is 'good'" yet when you say rap is good you aren't?

I don't care if you don't like rap. I do care when people, having listened a bunch of crap from the mainstream go on to assume that all rap is terrible, and that anyone who listens to rap 'doesn't know what real music is'. Again...if we all made these judgments, imagine the things I could say about rock based on Nickleback.

Damn you Nickleback!

*snip*I love that I totally and vehemently don't agree with some of your positions, while 100% supporting you on other things. It makes me all angry and admiring at once.

I don't care if you don't like rap. I do care when people, having listened a bunch of crap from the mainstream go on to assume that all rap is terrible, and that anyone who listens to rap 'doesn't know what real music is'. Again...if we all made these judgments, imagine the things I could say about rock based on Nickleback.

Damn you Nickleback!

What is your grudge against Nickleback? :(

I find that if I just pay attention, what I like about the music will come to me without me having to look for anything.

Oh for sure. But the stuff that has lasting power, overwhelmingly has been something with a message AND fantastic musicality. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy anything but.

Then again, I still love Frank Zappa, and I'm pretty sure he has a song about the grit between his toes :D

LOL THATS FUNNY AND ORIGINAL!

I KNOW! I ROK THE HARD ONE!!!11!!!! Ok, now that I've given you a stupid reply to your stupid reply to my stupid comment, let's move on.

That's OK. Some people hate Jews. You're allowed your hate... but don't expect me to buy the supposed reasons you do.

Yea, umm, how the hell did Jews come into this? What the hell? Seriously you just lost the whole argument because you somehow equate hating rap music to hating Jews.

Required by whom?

The people who actually buy this crap.

Enforced by whom?

The almighty dollar.

Examples of this "cuss word every other word?"

Any rap song produced by anyone since the 80's.


Wait, so it's all actually the same song?

Rap songs are pretty much interchangeable.

One song.

From several songs.

From which all rap is "crap."

Yea pretty much, now you're getting it!

The voice is a musical instrument.

It would be if they were actually singing, you know using pitch, tone, etc.

Here is a Nickleback Song.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B000ASATO4001005/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_005/105-3223784-7076418

and here is a rap song by Eminem.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00004T9UF001002/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_002/105-3223784-7076418

Notice how Nickleback actually changes it's pitch, and tone as the song goes on, while Eminem, eh he just talks in anger.

[/QUOTE]

What is your grudge against Nickleback? :(

Hahahaa, honestly nothing, it's just fun to pick on them. I don't particularily like them, but I don't hate them as much as I'm making out either.

I don't care if you don't like rap. I do care when people, having listened a bunch of crap from the mainstream go on to assume that all rap is terrible, and that anyone who listens to rap 'doesn't know what real music is'. Again...if we all made these judgments, imagine the things I could say about rock based on Nickleback.

Damn you Nickleback!

Even worse they are likely condemning mainstream rap by leaning on stereotypes and not actually listening objectively.

Mainstream rap has been far more creative and innovative than mainstream rock for ten years now, yet everyone repeats the old mantra that rappers "spew out the same crap as everyone else."

*stops listening to DMX, 2pac, Kanye, and Wyclef*

Rap is missing the C.

Word?

I didn't realize 10 year olds were allowed to post here. You're on watch.

Rock is missing the C, Oooooohh I'm so FUNNY rolfpnwt!!!!!111[/szie=42356]!!!111!!![/hueg]

Izzle tizzle muh nizzle frizzle on da crizzle drizzle! Awww yee!!

Hahahaa, honestly nothing, it's just fun to pick on them. I don't particularily like them, but I don't hate them as much as I'm making out either.

I really enjoy the group. One of the few bands whose hits I almost universally enjoy. I certainly have no trouble liking the band better than virtually any rap I've ever heard.

*stops listening to DMX, 2pac, Kanye, and Wyclef*



Word?

I didn't realize 10 year olds were allowed to post here. You're on watch.

Rock is missing the C, Oooooohh I'm so FUNNY rolfpnwt!!!!!111[/szie=42356]!!!111!!![/hueg]

hahahahahaha, *sigh* Yea, you're an idiot.

hahahahahaha, *sigh* Yea, you're an idiot.

You said it.

Mainstream rap has been far more creative and innovative than mainstream rock for ten years now, yet everyone repeats the old mantra that rappers "spew out the same crap as everyone else."

that's why I stick to staying in the past and only listening to the bands of the 1980s.

That's right, rap music or "hip hop" if you will is fucking awesome. Im a punk who loves MCs and DJs. I fucking hate pretentious wankers who look down on rap music and make stupid (subconsciously racist?) comments like "its not real music, its just someone talking". Shut up. You clearly know nothing. Being a good rapper is more than just talking; it relies on flow, pitch, timing, speed, enunciation, etc. I mean for fucks sake, one of you guys who criticise rappers for being untalentened try just talking over a beat and see how it compares.

Some people make legitimate criticisms over the content of rap music(glorification of street violence, sexist statements, homophobic remarks, bling bling culture etc). However this comes from an obsessive observance of a certain section of mainstream rap. Ultimately these criticisms are a product of a narrow view of a narrow segment of hip hop music as a whole. Many artists have socially uplifting messages, anti-drug messsages, political commentaries, etc. Just because some rappers who are funded by corporate record labels and given money for product placement get on tv and the radio and act like mysogynistic materialistic muggers doesnt mean that is what represents the overall rap community as a whole.

Peace. Ha.

99.99% of rap is crap...black peoples version of country which is also 99.99% crap...no talent, no worries, take up rap or country and you can be star...

a quote from I think it was Buddy Rich regarding country music which suits rap as well..."dumb music for dumb people"

rap is music the way graffiti is art, take that as you will.

in my eyes, neither are.

so you know nothing of either rap or graffiti? shit, even stodgy old art museums have had graffiti exhibitions at this point.

You said it.

Yea, but you said it in the most idiotic way possible, which makes you more of an idiot than me.

a quote from I think it was Buddy Rich regarding country music which suits rap as well..."dumb music for dumb people"

All music is dumb when you can't relate to it, and that goes double when you don't even take a second to appreciate it. It's all prejudice attitudes that are downright revolting.

Here is a Nickleback Song.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B000ASATO4001005/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_005/105-3223784-7076418

and here is a rap song by Eminem.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00004T9UF001002/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_002/105-3223784-7076418

Notice how Nickleback actually changes it's pitch, and tone as the song goes on, while Eminem, eh he just talks in anger.



You must have missed this when I posted it earlier, but it is a good reason why Nickleback is so easy to make fun of:

http://www.thewebshite.net/nickelback.htm

As for the links you provided, do you honestly not recognize all of the extremely clever wordplay Eminem throws into that song, or are you too caught up in taking him literally?


As for the nickleback song, I can't believe how much it sounds like the link I posted, but on a more serious note, can you listen to the lyrics of the song you linked and not equate them to an eighth grader in english class? And don't give me anything about the music, it is a by-the-numbers repetitive chord progression that any guitarist could learn to play in minutes.

Yea, but you said it in the most idiotic way possible, which makes you more of an idiot than me.

So you admit you're an idiot?

I really enjoy the group. One of the few bands whose hits I almost universally enjoy.


they are all the same song

Yea, umm, how the hell did Jews come into this? What the hell? Seriously you just lost the whole argument because you somehow equate hating rap music to hating Jews.


They are equivalent in one respect: people take some assertion, like "that Jew stole my money" or "that rap song is crap," and then use it to extrapolate to, "Jews are all thieves" or "rap is crap."

It's called a comparison, not an argument.

The people who actually buy this crap.

Nah. You asserted that rap lyrics consist 50% of swear words. This is just plain untrue. Even if it were, people who buy albums have absolutely no way of enforcing that they maintain this rigid and frankly fictitious little rule.

The almighty dollar.

Kinda like how the almighty dollar enforces that Beethoven always use an Exposition in his Symphonies, yes?

Any rap song produced by anyone since the 80's.

Wow, I didn't know you were such a fan of the genre, that you've actually listened to every rap song by every artist for the past 27 years. One wonders why you do this if you hate it so much. Frankly, I also kinda wonder how you find the time to do this at all.

Rap songs are pretty much interchangeable.

Mozart and Salieri pieces are too. Therefore Mozart is Salieri.

Be a smart boy; spot the error in my (our) logic.


From several songs.

You said one song. Now it's several.

You will need to show the same - show, not tell - for every rap song by every artist since the 80s. I'll wait while you do this.


It would be if they were actually singing, you know using pitch, tone, etc.

They do use pitch and tone. If you don't think they do, then I'm just gonna say you don't fucking know what singing means.

Here is a Nickleback Song.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B000ASATO4001005/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_005/105-3223784-7076418

and here is a rap song by Eminem.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00004T9UF001002/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_002/105-3223784-7076418


Well now, your viewpoint is that rap is not music.

Yet you just referred to it as a "song."

Concession... accepted.


Notice how Nickleback actually changes it's pitch, and tone as the song goes on, while Eminem, eh he just talks in anger.

Oh, so if music repeats the same pitch it's not music?

Interesting rule. Support it with something other than your ignorance.

So you admit you're an idiot?

I'm liking this conversation.

So you admit you're an idiot?

Is this what this conversation has degenerated to?

Is this what this conversation has degenerated to?

When the response is...

Rap is missing the C.

Don't expect me to use my A material.

Also, none of these 'rappers' actually play their own instrument while 'rapping'.

then what the hell is going on here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bm0JfjRpvg

You must have missed this when I posted it earlier, but it is a good reason why Nickleback is so easy to make fun of:

http://www.thewebshite.net/nickelback.htm

Eh maybe Nickleback was a bad choice. Let me look through my collection to see if I can't find anything better.


As for the links you provided, do you honestly not recognize all of the extremely clever wordplay Eminem throws into that song, or are you too caught up in taking him literally?

Ooo my God yes! It's cleaver wordplay, oh why did I not get that before! Eminem is a fuckin' genius, he is able to say bitch, hoe, slut, god damned, all in cleaver word play! *squeals like a little girl*

Please, give me a freakin' break. There's no 'cleaver word play'.

As for the nickleback song, I can't believe how much it sounds like the link I posted, but on a more serious note, can you listen to the lyrics of the song you linked and not equate them to an eighth grader in english class? And don't give me anything about the music, it is a by-the-numbers repetitive chord progression that any guitarist could learn to play in minutes.

Well on the same note, any 5 year old can cuss and bitch like Eminem can and he can do it while 'rapping' (talking fast).

Ooo my God yes! It's cleaver wordplay, oh why did I not get that before! Eminem is a fuckin' genius, he is able to say bitch, hoe, slut, god damned, all in cleaver word play! *squeals like a little girl*

Please, give me a freakin' break. There's no 'cleaver word play'.


So basically you're offended. Wah, there are some bad words. Keep squealing like a little girl then... but don't try to pretend you're giving anything resembling an "argument."

Eh maybe Nickleback was a bad choice. Let me look through my collection to see if I can't find anything better.

You need time to find a rock band better than Nickleback, that's troubling.

*cough*Evanescence*cough*

You're just backpeddaling at this point Willy.

then what the hell is going on here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bm0JfjRpvg

That is excellent.

Methinks some of our more skeptical brethren will reject the artistry involved the instant they see the clothes the artists are wearing.

Rhyme does not equate to poetry. The highest form of poetry is blank verse, thus Rap has no poetic merits as a medium. Pertinent to diction, Rap is not so much eloquent as like shitting on the linguistic exertions of millenia of intellectuals. Thus, we must turn to thematic expression, and musical expression, both of which, in Rap are thoroughgoingly predictable and, for the most part, limited at best.
I concur.

"joke". See, I said it you waste of skin.
Compliments abound today I see. :D

Ooo my God yes! It's cleaver wordplay, oh why did I not get that before! Eminem is a fuckin' genius, he is able to say bitch, hoe, slut, god damned, all in cleaver word play! *squeals like a little girl*

Please, give me a freakin' break. There's no 'cleaver word play'.

Exactly, you can't recognize all of the linguistic tactics he throws in because you get all choked up when he calls his mom a slut.

They are equivalent in one respect: people take some assertion, like "that Jew stole my money" or "that rap song is crap," and then use it to extrapolate to, "Jews are all thieves" or "rap is crap."

It's called a comparison, not an argument.

A pretty bad one at that.

Nah. You asserted that rap lyrics consist 50% of swear words. This is just plain untrue. Even if it were, people who buy albums have absolutely no way of enforcing that they maintain this rigid and frankly fictitious little rule.


Actually they can. See, it's basic economics. People buy NWA, who plays the song that has 'fuck the police' in it. That album sold very well. So what happens, more and more 'rappers' jump on that band wagon, and basically follow the same formula. People drink that crap up like a goat drinking anti-freeze. Several more raps albums that just pretty much suck sells and make gold and platinum, and well, you get the picture.

Kinda like how the almighty dollar enforces that Beethoven always use an Exposition in his Symphonies, yes?

Eh, you can't really compare Beethoven to anything today, because anything we produce today is going to be smelly stinking shit compared to what Beethoven has written, but eh yea I could see that happening.


Wow, I didn't know you were such a fan of the genre, that you've actually listened to every rap song by every artist for the past 27 years. One wonders why you do this if you hate it so much. Frankly, I also kinda wonder how you find the time to do this at all.

I know, I'm pretty amazing, bask in my glory! But seriously though, once you heard a few, you pretty much heard them all.

Mozart and Salieri pieces are too. Therefore Mozart is Salieri.

Be a smart boy; spot the error in my (our) logic.

Eh, see, you just can't compare Classical Music to Rap, I mean artist like Mozart and Beethoven actually dedicated serious time to writing their pieces, for paino, for the string section, for the wind section, brass section. God they spend countless hours working on these wonderful masterpieces. Your typical rap star, eh can probably knock out a song every weekend.

You said one song. Now it's several.

You will need to show the same - show, not tell - for every rap song by every artist since the 80s. I'll wait while you do this.

NWA, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Eminem, 50 Cent, D12, yea pretty much all the same crap, just different 'rappers'.

They do use pitch and tone. If you don't think they do, then I'm just gonna say you don't fucking know what singing means.

Talking is not singing, so don't even confuse the two.

Well now, your viewpoint is that rap is not music.

Yet you just referred to it as a "song."

Concession... accepted.

Ok, from now on, I'll just say they're very lousy three minutes conversations.

Oh, so if music repeats the same pitch it's not music?

Interesting rule. Support it with something other than your ignorance.

I believe I just did. I compared real music, with real instruments, with real singing, and yes have real meaning, to your basic run of the mill, produced in one weekend rap song that is susspose to sound angry for your angst filled teenagers who want to be down with the 'gangsta'.

Methinks some of our more skeptical brethren will reject the artistry involved the instant they see the clothes the artists are wearing.

well, clearly they're no nickelback

*cough*Evanescence*cough*

Now there is some mature artistic stuff.

See I don't care if Wilgrove listens to music that is repetitive, employs childish lyrics with almost no poetic value, but that would preclude him for degrading other artists and people for those same qualities (especially when those qualities often don't fit).

then what the hell is going on here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bm0JfjRpvg

Other people playing instrument while the rappers 'rap'. I said the 'rappers' has to be playing instruments.

well, clearly they're no nickelback

Yes, they don't have enough hair, they have too much material in their jeans, and the crosses they wear around their neck are a little too big.

So basically you're offended. Wah, there are some bad words. Keep squealing like a little girl then... but don't try to pretend you're giving anything resembling an "argument."

Nah I'm not offended, I've heard worse, I'm just saying that there is no 'cleaver' word play. If you think there is, then you either need your hearing check, or put down the crack.

Other people playing instrument while the rappers 'rap'. I said the 'rappers' has to be playing instruments.

oh, so now you are ruling out all musical groups with dedicated vocalists. of course you realize that this wipes out a huge portion of rock music too, right?

Other people playing instrument while the rappers 'rap'. I said the 'rappers' has to be playing instruments.

What kind of stupid shit is that.

Now rappers must be able to play an instrument while rapping to be musicians?

What about all those lead singers today who don't play instruments, or better yet the vast majority of bands today who are only mediocre at playing their instruments?

Nickleback and Evenescence, for example.

Not really. As much as you like Shakespeare and Milton the majority of the world probably can't understand him and can't be arsed to sit through one of his plays. You can't just claim because English literature students and academics in your little bubble all hold these people up to be the pinnacle of writing makes it true. Because I can guarantee if you went around most people in America or the UK if they wanted to sit through a Shakespeare play or listen to a rap album, theyd pick the latter. So don't do the whole pretentious academic thing because your 'high art' appeals to very few people.

However, do I give a flying fuck about "most people"?

hmmm.....

Don't think so...:D

You need time to find a rock band better than Nickleback, that's troubling.

*cough*Evanescence*cough*

You're just backpeddaling at this point Willy.

No I am not. Hmm lets look at some of the great rock bands. Evanescence is a good one, there's also Red Hot Chile Peppers, Dead Presidents, Presidents of the United States (they sang the 'peaches' song. You know "Going to the country, going eat alot of peaches...), KISS, Chicago, AC/DC, Nine Inch Nails, Korn. Several great rock bands that beat the crap out of Rap.

Red Hot Chile Peppers...beat the crap out of Rap.

you are a racist and i claim my ten dollars

Now there is some mature artistic stuff.

See I don't care if Wilgrove listens to music that is repetitive, employs childish lyrics with almost no poetic value, but that would preclude him for degrading other artists and people for those same qualities (especially when those qualities often don't fit).

Wilgrove came into this arguement spitting venom and now he's on the retreat when he has to back it up. I don't care that doesn't like rap, but he is ploying the retarded arguements: "cursing, fast talking, and some other things that I would even call points."

Mentioning Nickleback as his main counterpoint was like shooting himself in the foot with 400,000 tons of dynamite.

*cough*Evanescence*cough*
Anyone willing to go beyond the mainstream can do better than Evanescence. Tristania, for instance, is far better. Evanescence certainly has greater mass appeal though.

Exactly, you can't recognize all of the linguistic tactics he throws in because you get all choked up when he calls his mom a slut.

Yea yea, I've heard it all he's susspose to "shock" us, because he wants to sound like a bad ass. Meanwhile, after he's done sounding 'bad ass' in the crappy "three minutes conversations" that he writes, he goes home to his mansion in Hollywood behind a gate and concrete wall.

The words "rap" and "music" should not appear in the same sentance unless separated by the words "is not".

Red Hot Chile Peppers

I hate to tell you this but Anthony Keidis raps in front of a band without playing an instrument.

His rapping is some of the most asinine shit I have ever heard, as well.

I like some of RHCP's stuff, but you are shooting your argument down with some of your examples.

you are a racist and i claim my ten dollars

First the Jews, now the 'racist' comment. What next, Godwin?

you are a racist and i claim my ten dollars

Do I get 10 bucks, too?

you are a racist and i claim my ten dollars
Is there anyone who is non-racist on NS by your standards?

A pretty bad one at that.


Not really. You hate rap, some people hate Jews. You don't have any legitimate reason to hate rap, no one has any legitimate reason to hate Jews. I think it fits pretty well... you just don't like it because it makes you look irrational and bigoted.

Actually they can. See, it's basic economics.

Ah, now it's basic economics. In addition to basic music. Why would I take all those economics and music classes when I can just get educated by Wilgrove.

Economics about supply and demand. That's all. You automatically assume that there is one demand ("swear words every other word"), and that there is one supply. Economics doesn't support that generalization at all.

Eh, you can't really compare Beethoven to anything today, because anything we produce today is going to be smelly stinking shit compared to what Beethoven has written

Biased nonsense. Music can be compared to music.

, but eh yea I could see that happening.

So you believe that Beethoven would change his musical style based on album sales? Heh. So much for your high opinion of Beethoven.

But seriously though, once you heard a few, you pretty much heard them all.

Yeah, yeah. And once you've met a Jew, you've met them all.

Eh, see, you just can't compare Classical Music to Rap, I mean artist like Mozart and Beethoven actually dedicated serious time to writing their pieces, for paino, for the string section, for the wind section, brass section. God they spend countless hours working on these wonderful masterpieces. Your typical rap star, eh can probably knock out a song every weekend.

The amount of time it takes has nothing to do with whether it is music, or whether it is good music.

I'm a composer of music, so no silly argument you make on this point is gonna change my mind on that. I've churned out orchestral pieces in a matter of days, and I've also taken years and years and never completed. Neither is automatically better or worse than the other.

Music can be compared to music. You don't like rap music - fine. But it's still music.

NWA, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Eminem, 50 Cent, D12, yea pretty much all the same crap

The only crap that's the same is your bad "argument" here. You just repeat your own stupid assumptions. It's the same "arguments" anyone gives to justify their own mindless hate of anything.


Talking is not singing, so don't even confuse the two.

Rapping is not talking.

Ok, from now on, I'll just say they're very lousy three minutes conversations.

Too late. You already conceded the argument.

I believe I just did. I compared real music, with real instruments, with real singing, and yes have real meaning, to your basic run of the mill, produced in one weekend rap song that is susspose to sound angry for your angst filled teenagers who want to be down with the 'gangsta'.

Saying "real music" and "real" instruments over and over does not in any way support your stupid, inexpert, inaccurate and ignorant "rule" that if music is "angry" or notes repeat, it is somehow not music. Not even close.

Go find a professor of musicology somewhere to back you up. Quote me a musical text book that repeats your assertions. You can't do it. It's just your own stupid opinion.

GTFO.

Wilgrove came into this arguement spitting venom and now he's on the retreat when he has to back it up. I don't care that doesn't like rap, but he is ploying the retarded arguements: "cursing, fast talking, and some other things that I would even call points."

Mentioning Nickleback as his main counterpoint was like shooting himself in the foot with 400,000 tons of dynamite.

Eh at least Nickleback actually writes not only the lyrics, but eh, the music to go along with the lyrics. They didn't just "sample" (steal) a 'beat' from other music for their song.

you are a racist and i claim my ten dollars

How is that racist? It's true.

I might add that the Proclaimers are better than any rap artist as well, which is poor reflection on rap as a whole....;)