NationStates Jolt Archive

Got questions about Christianity, Dont like particular verses. about why life tends to suck more than be good? Well im here to defend my Religion. Ask me, give me a referance and ill Answer you as best i Can (Please no: "Why bother theres no God Anyway")

I fear that "Ask a..." threads are no longer allowed on this forum. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news :(

2 questions then, 1 How come (though i fear i know the answer already) and 2, where is it allowed?

and thank you for telling me but i think ill keep going till the mods shut me down, unless theres somewhere else on NS that will let me do so? so if any of the mods read this please fill me in! thanks.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9648150&postcount=12'

""Ask a ..." threads will be locked, moved to spam, deleted, or whatever the mod feels is appropriate. Spam warnings and forumbans may be issued for egregious offenders."

I suggest that you not "keep going till the mods shut you down," because you may end up being just that: shut down.

Got questions about Christianity, Dont like particular verses. about why life tends to suck more than be good? Well im here to defend my Religion. Ask me, give me a referance and ill Answer you as best i Can (Please no: "Why bother theres no God Anyway")

Why won't Jesus go to the footy with me on Sunday? I'll shout him a beer & a pie.

Fuck the mods, you don't like a thread how about instead of whining about it you don't read it.

On topic: What about all the mistranslations in the bible and which version do you use?

Fuck the mods, you don't like a thread how about instead of whining about it you don't read it.

On topic: What about all the mistranslations in the bible and which version do you use?

That's gonna win you some serious points. :rolleyes:

Fuck the mods, you don't like a thread how about instead of whining about it you don't read it.

On topic: What about all the mistranslations in the bible and which version do you use?
Um I don’t see anyone whining, I see someone trying to keep the OP from getting in serious trouble for violating forum rules

That's gonna win you some serious points. :rolleyes:

As meantioned in a previous thread I don't give a damn what the mods think of me. I spent my formitive posting years in unmoderated usenet and while I enjoy much of the discusion in here I have trouble seeing mods as anything but thugs that bitchslap you when someone else gets whiny.

As meantioned in a previous thread I don't give a damn what the mods think of me. I spent my formitive posting years in unmoderated usenet and while I enjoy much of the discusion in here I have trouble seeing mods as anything but thugs that bitchslap you when someone else gets whiny.
LOL. Well, Eris Rising was only with us for a short time, but he will be dearly missed.






Upward Thrust, get the tranq darts! Cluichistan, get the mods! I'll keep him busy!

Dammit, I wanted to play with the tranq darts! :p

LOL. Well, Eris Rising was only with us for a short time, but he will be dearly missed.






Upward Thrust, get the tranq darts! Cluichistan, get the mods! I'll keep him busy!


Meh, I shall rise again . . .

Dammit, I wanted to play with the tranq darts! :p
*sigh* Fine, you get the darts, UpwardThrust gets the mods!

*sigh* Fine, you get the darts, UpwardThrust gets the mods!

Ooh ooh, can i join in the festivities? I brought a bb gun :D

Ooh ooh, can i join in the festivities? I brought a bb gun :D
Go for his knees!

If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can imagine . . .
That's what you meant to say, right?

Go for his knees!

Damn it, hes so fast!

That's what you meant to say, right?

LOL that does sound better. :p

I gots me a question about the Bible. Old Testament in particular.


Why if god wanted to free the israelites (neat trick seein as they weren't slaves) did he torture the entire populace of Egypt instead of just snapping his fingers and letting the Jews out?

Damn it, hes so fast!

That's why taking out his knees is important. It'll let me get an easier shot with the tranq dart. ;)

I gots me a question about the Bible. Old Testament in particular.


Why if god wanted to free the israelites (neat trick seein as they weren't slaves) did he torture the entire populace of Egypt instead of just snapping his fingers and letting the Jews out?

Simple answer is:

So that he can show the Israelites precisely who he is and that He is indeed real.

Simple answer is:

So that he can show the Israelites precisely who he is and that He is indeed real.

Wouldn't that have been easyer and more moraly acomplished by "snapping his fingers" and letting them out?

I gots me a question about the Bible. Old Testament in particular.


Why if god wanted to free the israelites (neat trick seein as they weren't slaves) did he torture the entire populace of Egypt instead of just snapping his fingers and letting the Jews out?

Coz gods a prankster :D

Simple answer is:

So that he can show the Israelites precisely who he is and that He is indeed real.

You know, manifesting as a 60 foot tall glowing human would of done the same thing without the whole torture of the innocents bit.

Simple answer is:

So that he can show the Israelites precisely who he is and that He is indeed real.

He could do that by teleporting all of the Israelites to the promise land.

I gots me a question about the Bible. Old Testament in particular.


Why if god wanted to free the israelites (neat trick seein as they weren't slaves) did he torture the entire populace of Egypt instead of just snapping his fingers and letting the Jews out?
Good question … seems like a jackass thing to do … some poor Egyptians lost a lot of loved ones

He could do that by teleporting all of the Israelites to the promise land.

Frogs are funnier, though. :p

Simple answer is:

So that he can show the Israelites precisely who he is and that He is indeed real.
So he had to kill and plague innocents on order to prove he exists to a few people, what a jackass

So he had to kill and plague innocents on order to prove he exists to a few people, what a jackass

Well it's blatantly apparent he didn't have to, he apparently just wanted to. Which does of course make him a monumental jackass.

You know, manifesting as a 60 foot tall glowing human would of done the same thing without the whole torture of the innocents bit.

Remember that the Israelites were slaves to the Egyptian people.

Remember that the Israelites were slaves to the Egyptian people.

Not going to argue with you 'bout that. But last I recall being a god means being omnipotent. Unless those Egyptians used really good chains!

He could do that by teleporting all of the Israelites to the promise land.

But not the same affect.

But not the same affect.
What effect? You mean achieving his goal without the slaughter of innocents?

They were God's enemy and they were holding His people as slaves. *shrugs*

Every single Egyptian had a Jew slave? God damn there musta been an awful lot of Jews or awful few Egyptians.

So he had to kill and plague innocents on order to prove he exists to a few people, what a jackass

They were God's enemy and they were holding His people as slaves. *shrugs*

Would you show mercy to your enemy that is holding your people in slavery?
One would expect a merciful and benevolent god to.

Unless of course god is a malicious thug.

Remember that the Israelites were slaves to the Egyptian people.
Not to all of them … some poor working family lost a first born or was covered in boils or had to deal with those locusts

The plagues do not appear to be limited to just slave owners but everyone, including the innocent first born (for all we know they could have been like 2 years old) yet killed by god for a people they do not even know

What effect? You mean achieving his goal without the slaughter of innocents?

Would you show mercy to your enemy that is holding your people in slavery?

They were God's enemy and they were holding His people as slaves. *shrugs*
And yet that god killed innocent children to prove he existed.

Trilby63']God's enemy? God created them.. he couldn't just come off his cloud and tell them to stop it and apologise?

Apparently not.

They were God's enemy and they were holding His people as slaves. *shrugs*
God's enemy? God created them.. he couldn't just come off his cloud and tell them to stop it and apologise?

Would you show mercy to your enemy that is holding your people in slavery?
Fuck yeah no way I would go killing their innocent children on purpose, I would, you know kill the people that were actually enslaving

And yet that god killed innocent children to prove he existed.

Yep. But there is more to this than meets the eye.

Would you show mercy to your enemy that is holding your people in slavery?

God would, he is omnipotent.

Yep. But there is more to this than meets the eye.

So you willingly worship a deity who on a whim and without any apparent remorse slaughters innocent children because he disapproves of their parents actions? Or the actions of their parent's neighbors?

One would expect a merciful and benevolent god to.

Unless of course god is a malicious thug.

God is a Benevolent God but he is also a Just God.

God is a Benevolent God but he is also a Just God.

I think you're glossing over the murder of innocent children bit.

Would you show mercy to your enemy that is holding your people in slavery?
If I'd be suspected to be a mercyfull god I guess I'd show mercy

God is a Benevolent God but he is also a Just God.
He just isn't.

I think you're glossing over the murder of innocent children bit.
it is quite easy for God to be Just because he makes the rules. You wouldn't expect Him to play by your rules

God would, he is omnipotent.

"Go and drive out the inhabitants of the land that I am giving to you"

He also stated that those they allowed to stay: "will become bards in your eyes and thorns in your sides. They will give you trouble in the land where you will live. And then I will do to you what I plan to do to them."

Seems like he did not want his enemies around.

"Go and drive out the inhabitants of the land that I am giving to you"

He also stated that those they allowed to stay: "will become bards in your eyes and thorns in your sides. They will give you trouble in the land where you will live. And then I will do to you what I plan to do to them."

Seems like he did not want his enemies around.

How can people god created be god's enemies?

"Go and drive out the inhabitants of the land that I am giving to you"

He also stated that those they allowed to stay: "will become bards in your eyes and thorns in your sides. They will give you trouble in the land where you will live. And then I will do to you what I plan to do to them."

Seems like he did not want his enemies around.
Still... he created those enemies..

So you willingly worship a deity who on a whim and without any apparent remorse slaughters innocent children because he disapproves of their parents actions? Or the actions of their parent's neighbors?

I serve a Good and Just God.

it is quite easy for God to be Just because he makes the rules. You wouldn't expect Him to play by your rules

God's sense of justice is somewhat skewed if he asserts killing innocent children is just.

I serve a Good and Just God.

So do I. Me. :p

I serve a Good and Just God.

Then you do not serve any god mentioned in the Bible.

How can people god created be god's enemies?

If they do not believe in Him....

If they do not believe in Him....

Ok, so god gives free will, but those who exercise it are god's enemies and to be slaughtered in a jihad.

Check.

If they do not believe in Him....
It would be his fault for neglecting them...

God is a Benevolent God but he is also a Just God.
I don’t understand how you can call the slaughter of innocents Just … you must be using a different definition

God's sense of justice is somewhat skewed if he asserts killing innocent children is just.
I can't argue with it being confusing and conflicting with what I understand of the world.

He created us to worship him. Then Eve sinned and gave the apple to Adam and thus sin entered into the world. With that, came the worship of false gods. So in reality, he did not create those enemies. The came unto their own because of free will which caused sin to enter into the world to begin with.

God created free will. Thus god created sin. Also god created the tree of knowledge and rather foolishly didn't even put a fucking fence around it.

Trilby63']Still... he created those enemies..

He created us to worship him. Then Eve sinned and gave the apple to Adam and thus sin entered into the world. With that, came the worship of false gods. So in reality, he did not create those enemies. The came unto their own because of free will which caused sin to enter into the world to begin with.

Then you do not serve any god mentioned in the Bible.

Your right. I don't. I serve the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The true God over the other gods that wound up being impotent against God's power.

Your right. I don't. I serve the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The true God over the other gods that wound up being impotent against God's power.

Didn't Abraham's god tell him to sacrafice his own son?

Trilby63']It would be his fault for neglecting them...

God's glory is all around us.The word of the Lord is also out there. If they reject God, it is not God's fault but our own for rejecting Him.

Thank you all for filling this thread with spam, no wonder the mods are gonna lock it up, The only reason i started this thread is because im tired of people bashing christianity in the threads when what there saying isnt entirely accurate.

He created us to worship him. Then Eve sinned and gave the apple to Adam and thus sin entered into the world. With that, came the worship of false gods. So in reality, he did not create those enemies. The came unto their own because of free will which caused sin to enter into the world to begin with.
So what you're saying is that we are created to massage your god's ego? If I remember correctly the devil tempted Eve.. the devil created by god.. God created the means for sin to enter the world as well as the concept of sin..

Thank you all for filling this thread with spam, no wonder the mods are gonna lock it up, The only reason i started this thread is because im tired of people bashing christianity in the threads when what there saying isnt entirely accurate.

What spam? We're discussing the bible and god. Is that not what you intended?

Why won't Jesus go to the footy with me on Sunday? I'll shout him a beer & a pie.


well how do i answer the joke question seriously, Gods with you where ever you go. His holy spirit lives within you. So in a sense he is with you at the Manchester United Games on sunday, and you can buy him a beer and a pie if you want, dont think hell eat it though.

I offer a better explenation, the old testement is bullshit and shouldn't be taken literally.

I just want to point out that there were no "slave owners" of Jewish slaves in Egypt.

A closer analogy than American slavery would be Nazi Germany where the rulers take a demographic of the population that they fear and or hate (Jews/Hebrews in these cases) and take away their freedoms and put them to work as a menial labour force.

I offer a better explenation, the old testement is bullshit and shouldn't be taken literally.
Yeah, but where's the erm... fun? in that?

I offer a better explenation, the old testement is bullshit and shouldn't be taken literally.
Please to be mentioning that to the fundies.

I can't argue with it being confusing and conflicting with what I understand of the world.

That is the problem most everyone has. We akwats put things into the world that we know of. However, as Jesus said in John 18:36 My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.

I gots me a question about the Bible. Old Testament in particular.


Why if god wanted to free the israelites (neat trick seein as they weren't slaves) did he torture the entire populace of Egypt instead of just snapping his fingers and letting the Jews out?


Same reason when they didnt go into Jericho he made them Wander in the Desert for 40 years. Because he didnt want the only the Jews to know he was God, he wanted the World to know. The Jews were his chosen people to be a light on to the world, so they had to be Perfect. So he dealt with them very drastically. Now why did he take it own on the Egyptions? Because 1. They Were slaves. And 2. They had killed and tortured teh Jews for hundreds of years, and God made an example of them. He was bassically saying to the world, "Mess with my Kids again and the same thing will happen to you."

That is the problem most everyone has. We akwats put things into the world that we know of. However, as Jesus said in John 18:36 My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.


What the hell is an Akwat? Also what Jesus was referring to in that particular instance is that his life on this plane is of little consequence and that he will be a king in Heaven.

You've like read the bible right?

Also if this is not god's kingdom, why must we worship him?

Didn't Abraham's god tell him to sacrafice his own son?

And provided a lamb instead. Amazing is it not?

Same reason when they didnt go into Jericho he made them Wander in the Desert for 40 years. Because he didnt want the only the Jews to know he was God, he wanted the World to know. The Jews were his chosen people to be a light on to the world, so they had to be Perfect. So he dealt with them very drastically. Now why did he take it own on the Egyptions? Because 1. They Were slaves. And 2. They had killed and tortured teh Jews for hundreds of years, and God made an example of them. He was bassically saying to the world, "Mess with my Kids again and the same thing will happen to you."


Would not a massive booming voice from the heavens served the same purpose? Could he not of raised those who had fallen from the dead? Could he not of healed those who were injured? Could he not of simply ascended all his true followers into heaven to join him in paradise?

I suppose it was more fun to torture the innocent.

And provided a lamb instead. Amazing is it not?

Actually it set a horrifying and pointless precedent. Ask Andrea Yates.

Why would god need to test anyone's faith? Wouldn't the omnipotent one know already?

I just want to point out that there were no "slave owners" of Jewish slaves in Egypt.

I am sure that Joseph would disagree with that. I am sure that many jews would disagree with that as well.

Trilby63']So what you're saying is that we are created to massage your god's ego? If I remember correctly the devil tempted Eve.. the devil created by god.. God created the means for sin to enter the world as well as the concept of sin..

I have a problem with the idea that God created us to worship him, because he just doesn't need it. The whole point is that God is self-sufficient! You could say he wants the worship of humans for their own improvement, maybe.

As for sin, it depends on what tradition you follow. The Devil story in Christianity says he was a fallen angel who took other angels with him because he aspired to God's power; in Islam he fell from grace completely on his own because he refused to acknowledge humans as worth anything. My opinion is that both of these stories are meant to show that excessive pride is a dangerous thing and even a sin.

Let us not also forget that Egypt worshipped false gods as well.

If their gods are false for not slaughtering children, sign me up.

Why would god need to test anyone's faith? Wouldn't the omnipotent one know already?
If you believe in "free will", and "God" at the same time, you have to allow for the test of faith.

Otherwise, everything is predestined, and whatever I do, I can say, "God willed it".

Same reason when they didnt go into Jericho he made them Wander in the Desert for 40 years. Because he didnt want the only the Jews to know he was God, he wanted the World to know. The Jews were his chosen people to be a light on to the world, so they had to be Perfect. So he dealt with them very drastically. Now why did he take it own on the Egyptions? Because 1. They Were slaves. And 2. They had killed and tortured teh Jews for hundreds of years, and God made an example of them. He was bassically saying to the world, "Mess with my Kids again and the same thing will happen to you."

Let us not also forget that Egypt worshipped false gods as well.

And yet that god killed innocent children to prove he existed.


God didnt "kill" the first born, he smited them. And yes there is a difference. Children, before they reach Manhood or Womanhood (13 years of Age by Jewish and Christian Law) are innocent. God sees all children as innocent. This means, they are without sin in Gods eyes, and if they die before they reach Manhood or Womanhood, they go strait to heaven. So All the firstborn that died, went to heaven.

Not invoke Flame, but when people are yelling that God lets people die, and kills others. No. God works in to worlds. This world, and then the world after, in which A. you live forever in heaven, or B. Get tortured in hell for thousands of years and then suffer the seccond death.

I honestly believe the god you worhip isn't worthy.

Same reason when they didnt go into Jericho he made them Wander in the Desert for 40 years. Because he didnt want the only the Jews to know he was God, he wanted the World to know. The Jews were his chosen people to be a light on to the world, so they had to be Perfect. So he dealt with them very drastically. Now why did he take it own on the Egyptions? Because 1. They Were slaves. And 2. They had killed and tortured teh Jews for hundreds of years, and God made an example of them. He was bassically saying to the world, "Mess with my Kids again and the same thing will happen to you."

If god is omnipotent then surely it would have been a sinch for him to just appear personally to every person on the planet, hand over a bible, do something miraculas(sp?) and say 'hey dude, I'm god, worship me m'kay?'. The whole world now knows he's god and everyone worships him.

You've like read the bible right?

Yes I do. It relaxes me and gives me peace.

Also if this is not god's kingdom, why must we worship him?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son to die for us for whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

Let us not forget: Except a man be born again, he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

God didnt "kill" the first born, he smited them. And yes there is a difference. Children, before they reach Manhood or Womanhood (13 years of Age by Jewish and Christian Law) are innocent. God sees all children as innocent. This means, they are without sin in Gods eyes, and if they die before they reach Manhood or Womanhood, they go strait to heaven. So All the firstborn that died, went to heaven.

Not invoke Flame, but when people are yelling that God lets people die, and kills others. No. God works in to worlds. This world, and then the world after, in which A. you live forever in heaven, or B. Get tortured in hell for thousands of years and then suffer the seccond death.


Really?

2 Sam.12:14-18

Would not a massive booming voice from the heavens served the same purpose? Could he not of raised those who had fallen from the dead? Could he not of healed those who were injured? Could he not of simply ascended all his true followers into heaven to join him in paradise?

I suppose it was more fun to torture the innocent.


No. Because if you read, Pharoh Rejected this God, and wouldnt let the Jews Go. Moses warned him what would happen, and still he refused. God made an example of not just the Pharoh, but of All egypt, so that the WORLD would know that he is God. A great booming voice an Healing of the Sick and raising the dead, are Good, as seen with Jesus Christ. But Think of today, how many people reject his teachings of Love and Brotherhood.

Same reason why in the Battle of Jericho, Rahab hid the two Jewish Spies. Cause she knew that God was mighty and powerful because of what had happened in Egypt. And of how God took care of his people in the desert.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son to die for us for whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

Let us not forget: Except a man be born again, he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.


So, one question - if a person is basically good, but never believed in Jesus as the Son of God who died for our sins, will he not enter Heaven? Or is the emphasis on born again, as in he would simply have to get rid of his evil traits and become a new and more just person?

Trilby63']I honestly believe the god you worhip isn't worthy.

The Lord is saddened by comments like these for he does not want anyone of us to perish but to spend eternity in Heaven with Him.

No. God works in to worlds. This world, and then the world after, in which A. you live forever in heaven, or B. Get tortured in hell for thousands of years and then suffer the seccond death.

To be honest it seems that god failed when it comes to this world. I mean it must be directly his fault when people die due to natural disasters, he designed the world after all...

Really?

2 Sam.12:14-18

And what makes you think that the child is not in heaven with God. What does this have to do with the innocense of a child? nothing.

Really?

2 Sam.12:14-18


By having a child from an Affair the enemies of Gods people saw that their king wasnt perfect. So God punished David, by taking his child. The child went to heaven though. The whole two worlds thing. God killed the child in this world, but its living forever in the next.

The Lord is saddened by comments like these for he does not want anyone of us to perish but to spend eternity in Heaven with Him.
Sure.. I hope I don't cause him too much pain whilst I'm suffering eternally in hell..

So, one question - if a person is basically good, but never believed in Jesus as the Son of God who died for our sins, will he not enter Heaven?

One must believe in God's Son Jesus to enter into heaven. Good works alone does not do this.

Or is the emphasis on born again, as in he would simply have to get rid of his evil traits and become a new and more just person?

One must do his best to live a holy life. Yes we will still sin but our sins are forgiven through faith in His Son Jesus Christ.

No. Because if you read, Pharoh Rejected this God, and wouldnt let the Jews Go. Moses warned him what would happen, and still he refused. God made an example of not just the Pharoh, but of All egypt, so that the WORLD would know that he is God. A great booming voice an Healing of the Sick and raising the dead, are Good, as seen with Jesus Christ. But Think of today, how many people reject his teachings of Love and Brotherhood.

Same reason why in the Battle of Jericho, Rahab hid the two Jewish Spies. Cause she knew that God was mighty and powerful because of what had happened in Egypt. And of how God took care of his people in the desert.


You're kind of evading the question. Don't worry I'm used to that from religious sorts. That's why it's pointless to talk to you.

One must believe in God's Son Jesus to enter into heaven. Good works alone does not do this.

So your god didn't allow ghandi into heaven? I'm not sure that I would want to be associated with such an asshat anyway.

To be honest it seems that god failed when it comes to this world. I mean it must be directly his fault when people die due to natural disasters, he designed the world after all...

Yeah, the old "unjustified evil" problem. You might want to read up on some of John Hick's work, he's a theist philosopher who addresses these sorts of questions.

And what makes you think that the child is not in heaven with God. What does this have to do with the innocense of a child? nothing.

Oh just felt the need to point out more of god's pointless slaughter.

Would you like a list?


http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-many-has-god-killed.html

One must believe in God's Son Jesus to enter into heaven. Good works alone does not do this.



One must do his best to live a holy life. Yes we will still sin but our sins are forgiven through faith in His Son Jesus Christ.

Another thing unjust. One can kill a million people but repent at the last minute and enter into eternal paradise. Another person can do good things all his life and not harm a single person but not believe in God, he will have to spend an etenity in darkness.

Darkness created by god, a place of eternal torment designed to coerce the worship of him, to stroke his ego.

Truely a benevolent and just god!

Or just violent.

You're kind of evading the question. Don't worry I'm used to that from religious sorts. That's why it's pointless to talk to you.

Actually, he did answer your question.

One must believe in God's Son Jesus to enter into heaven. Good works alone does not do this.

One must do his best to live a holy life. Yes we will still sin but our sins are forgiven through faith in His Son Jesus Christ.

All right, then. One more: if a person lived before Christ, or lived in a place where he could not have possibly heard of Christianity, surely it can't be his fault that he didn't believe in Jesus as God's Son? God must be just, above all, right?

The Lord is saddened by comments like these.

That's not what he told me. Mind you he had had a few beers

Another thing unjust. One can kill a million people but repent at the last minute and enter into eternal paradise. Another person can do good things all his life and not harm a single person but not believe in God, he will have to spend an etenity in darkness.

Yep.

Remember that the Israelites were slaves to the Egyptian people.
There's just one small problem: there's absolutely no record whatsoever of the entire Habiru population being held in captivity in Egypt.

All right, then. One more: if a person lived before Christ, or lived in a place where he could not have possibly heard of Christianity, surely it can't be his fault that he didn't believe in Jesus as God's Son? God must be just, above all, right?
There was a different contract (covenant) before Jesus.

Yep.
And you call that just? What right does god have to judge me?

Trilby63']And you call that just? What right does god have to judge me?

God created you to be more perfect and infallable than god himself. In falling short of that mark you are judged to be a horrible person and damned to hellfire.

To be honest it seems that god failed when it comes to this world. I mean it must be directly his fault when people die due to natural disasters, he designed the world after all...


This is a mentallity that allot of people have, and alot of Christians tend to have to. See to us it seems Logical to save people from Natural disasters, disease all that stuff.

THis is the mentality, (not to offend anyone) "Well Children die, and Good things happen to Bad people and bad things happen to good people and i dont see why i God would do this so I dont believe."

firstly, We are unable to understand God. The bible says (im not an expert on the bible so i may not give verse numbers i just remember what the verse says.) "The wisdom of Men is but foolishness to God." I dont understand why God does what he does. But i can tell you that he has a plan, and that everything that happens is a part of it. Maybe it was those peoples time. God alone knows the very time you are going to die. Its a hard thing to realize and that takes time, but to really worship God, you have to realize that He loves us all and he holds our lives in his hands. and though we may not understand why hes doing something, later down the road we will understan.


I mean its like a parent. Say you get caught smoking, and your parents Ground you. All you see at the time is theyre being mean evil people. Then down the road you see that they were trying to protect you from gaining a habbit that will ultimatly kill you.


A real good example of this is the book of Job. Read it.

No. Because if you read, Pharoh Rejected this God, and wouldnt let the Jews Go.
Ah, but why is that? If we are to believe the text of Exodus, we find that "god hardened the heart of Pharoah" against letting the Israelites go.

So god created the situation and blamed it on Pharoah!

Oh just felt the need to point out more of god's pointless slaughter.

Would you like a list?


http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-many-has-god-killed.html

The best one is the 14,700 killed 'for complaining'. Num 16:49

All right, then. One more: if a person lived before Christ, or lived in a place where he could not have possibly heard of Christianity, surely it can't be his fault that he didn't believe in Jesus as God's Son? God must be just, above all, right?

From my reading of the Bible, if one believed in God before the time of Christ, then I believe that they are in heaven. This would include Noah, Moses, Isiah, Ezekial, Elijah, and many others. As to the second part, that part, I will honestly admit, I have no answer to. I shall pray on it though.

Trilby63']And you call that just? What right does god have to judge me?

Well technically the fact he made you gives him the right. However that is unjust, but we don't actually know if they went into heaven or not. We are not the judge, maybe god makes exceptions.

All right, then. One more: if a person lived before Christ, or lived in a place where he could not have possibly heard of Christianity, surely it can't be his fault that he didn't believe in Jesus as God's Son? God must be just, above all, right?

This topic is mentioned in the book of Revelations.
Those who lived before the time of Christ will be resurrected and be given the oppurtunity to accept christ.

If you have not heard the word of Christ, there is no way for you to know it, therefore you are deamed innocent in Gods eyes. So all those indian tribes in Africa, who havent heard of Christ, are goin to heaven cause its not their fault they dont know about him.

There was a different contract (covenant) before Jesus.
Not according to jesus. According to jesus, the old laws are still in effect.

Ah, but why is that? If we are to believe the text of Exodus, we find that "god hardened the heart of Pharoah" against letting the Israelites go.

So god created the situation and blamed it on Pharoah!

Which can explain spiritual warfare being used against the Egyptian people.

God created you to be more perfect and infallable than god himself. In falling short of that mark you are judged to be a horrible person and damned to hellfire.
I am neither perfect nor infallable so that is complete bull. Again, what right does god have to judge me?

This topic is mentioned in the book of Revelations.
Those who lived before the time of Christ will be resurrected and be given the oppurtunity to accept christ.

If you have not heard the word of Christ, there is no way for you to know it, therefore you are deamed innocent in Gods eyes. So all those indian tribes in Africa, who havent heard of Christ, are goin to heaven cause its not their fault they dont know about him.

I am forced to ask this question to you but do you have biblical proof to actually back that up?

This is a mentallity that allot of people have, and alot of Christians tend to have to. See to us it seems Logical to save people from Natural disasters, disease all that stuff.

THis is the mentality, (not to offend anyone) "Well Children die, and Good things happen to Bad people and bad things happen to good people and i dont see why i God would do this so I dont believe."

firstly, We are unable to understand God. The bible says (im not an expert on the bible so i may not give verse numbers i just remember what the verse says.) "The wisdom of Men is but foolishness to God." I dont understand why God does what he does. But i can tell you that he has a plan, and that everything that happens is a part of it. Maybe it was those peoples time. God alone knows the very time you are going to die. Its a hard thing to realize and that takes time, but to really worship God, you have to realize that He loves us all and he holds our lives in his hands. and though we may not understand why hes doing something, later down the road we will understan.


I mean its like a parent. Say you get caught smoking, and your parents Ground you. All you see at the time is theyre being mean evil people. Then down the road you see that they were trying to protect you from gaining a habbit that will ultimatly kill you.


A real good example of this is the book of Job. Read it.

Very nice, now wouldn't it have made sense to construct the world in such a way that these things didn't happen in the first place? After all, he is god and I'm sure he could have designed the world without tectonic plates and the such.

Ah, but why is that? If we are to believe the text of Exodus, we find that "god hardened the heart of Pharoah" against letting the Israelites go.

So god created the situation and blamed it on Pharoah!


God heardene the heart of Pharoh against him making him Reject God yes. So that God could show the world the Fury of his Wrath, and so that all the WHOLE WORLD would know that HE ALONE is god. And that none of their False Gods could stand up to him.

Not according to jesus. According to jesus, the old laws are still in effect.

Nope, the new covenant was designed to take away the old covenant.

I am forced to ask this question to you but do you have biblical proof to actually back that up?

If i went through Revelations for an hour i could. its a hard to read book.

Yep.

!

I won't harp on this point, but I have to say it - there's a really serious problem here. When I read the New Testament, I see Jesus preaching charity, kindness, selflessness and so on. Moreover he says that only those who take the "narrow path", the ones who strive for justice and goodness instead of doing evil (often much easier), are the ones who will reach paradise. Matthew 7:13-14:


Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many.
How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.


and Matthew 7:21-23:


Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?'
Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.'


http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew7.htm

Only the truly good will achieve paradise - a last minute conversion after a lifetime of evil is contradicted by the words of Jesus.

God is a Benevolent God but he is also a Just God.
Justice is about granting the earned, and not granting the unearned.

Tell me if this sounds like what a just god would do:

"You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments."

See that bolded part? That means that god will not only punish you, but your kids, your grandkids, and maybe even your great-grandkids for something you did. And don't give me that "different covenant" thing, either. This is straight outta the Big 10, ifyouknowwhatImean.

Another biblical question:

How many commandments are there? List them if you would.

Another biblical question:

How many commandments are there?
613

God heardene the heart of Pharoh against him making him Reject God yes. So that God could show the world the Fury of his Wrath, and so that all the WHOLE WORLD would know that HE ALONE is god. And that none of their False Gods could stand up to him.

Hang on, if the other gods are false then how could they stand up to him in the first place? They are false and therefore don't exist.:confused:

If i went through Revelations for an hour i could. its a hard to read book.

I have no problems reading it.

Nope, the new covenant was designed to take away the old covenant.
There is no new covenant. Jesus said the old laws are still in effect. I don't know why you have difficulty with English.

Hang on, if the other gods are false then how could they stand up to him in the first place? They are false and therefore don't exist.:confused:
Some people require proof by demonstration.

God heardene the heart of Pharoh against him making him Reject God yes.
Then you admit your god is a monster.

Which can explain spiritual warfare being used against the Egyptian people.
Only if by that you mean an attempt to rationalize the heinous act which god set in motion.

Some people require proof by demonstration.

God is omnipotent. No one would require him to do something as proof if that were true. If so it implies there's something god cannot do, which violates the very definition of omnipotence.

Some people require proof by demonstration.

Which goes back to my earlier post. If god does exsist then why all the killing? He's omnipotent so why no just appear to every person on the planet and hand over a bible, give a little demonstration and be done with it? No dead kiddies and a whole world worshipping you.

There is no new covenant. Jesus said the old laws are still in effect. I don't know why you have difficulty with English.

Would you like to show me the passage where jesus says that?

Pretty much every schollar in the world agrees that there is a new covenant, and Jesus' death is the signature.

*snip*

Actually it is not a contradiction for once we accepted the Lord Savior Jesus Christ, our sins are washed away and are forgotten. We are to strive to do good works and to help anyone in need for by doing so, we are doing it to God. "I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was hungry and you fed me, I was naked and you clothed me."

However, the point remains that we also must accept the Lord Savior as well. As it is written in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, He gave his only begotten Son to die for us, for whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish but have everlasting life[/i]

Would you like to show me the passage where jesus says that?
No problem.

Matt 5:17-18

Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished

Hint: jesus' death had to be according to the old laws, then, and it wasn't. His "sacrifice" flies in the face of the Levitical laws.

Which goes back to my earlier post. If god does exsist then why all the killing? He's omnipotent so why no just appear to every person on the planet and hand over a bible, give a little demonstration and be done with it? No dead kiddies and a whole world worshipping you.
You missed my post on free will.

If there's no free will, and everything is preordained, I can go rape, kill, and whatever strikes my fancy and say, "God willed it" (there IS a religion that is fond of that saying, BTW).

Justice is about granting the earned, and not granting the unearned.

Tell me if this sounds like what a just god would do:

"You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments."

See that bolded part? That means that god will not only punish you, but your kids, your grandkids, and maybe even your great-grandkids for something you did. And don't give me that "different covenant" thing, either. This is straight outta the Big 10, ifyouknowwhatImean.

Why should I use a different covenant thing? I have not done so yet nor do I intend to.

Yes I see the bolded part. I also noticed you left another key phrase unbolded. So what is your problem with the bolded part?

Hang on, if the other gods are false then how could they stand up to him in the first place? They are false and therefore don't exist.:confused:

Exactly.

Why should I use a different covenant thing?
Others here have tried that route. I wanted to block it from you.


Yes I see the bolded part. I also noticed you left another key phrase unbolded.
There are no other key phrases.


So what is your problem with the bolded part?
I explained what my problem with the bolded part is. What about my explanation do you not understand?

Why should I use a different covenant thing? I have not done so yet nor do I intend to.

Yes I see the bolded part. I also noticed you left another key phrase unbolded. So what is your problem with the bolded part?

The problem should be pretty obvious. If God visits the sins of the father upon the son, but the son is a good, just person who has done nothing to deserve it, then God is unjust. I'd rather say that God has never done this, and that if this was ever said it would have been a ploy to keep people from sinning (didn't work out too well, I'd say.)

No problem.

Matt 5:17-18

Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished

Hint: jesus' death had to be according to the old laws, then, and it wasn't. His "sacrifice" flies in the face of the Levitical laws.

Yep.

You missed my post on free will.

If there's no free will, and everything is preordained, I can go rape, kill, and whatever strikes my fancy and say, "God willed it" (there IS a religion that is fond of that saying, BTW).

now you are contradicting yourself. You said that some people require a demonstration, this is just another form of the plaugues on egypt only with less dead people. My way you would still have the choice but you would have been presented it by god himself and you would have a copy of the true gospel, written by god hand, to help you make the decision in an informed way.

Two bird with one stone, a world population making an informed choice about religion and the true bible not this bastardised version we use now.

No problem.

Matt 5:17-18

Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished

Hint: jesus' death had to be according to the old laws, then, and it wasn't. His "sacrifice" flies in the face of the Levitical laws.

Hebrews 8:7,8

The problem should be pretty obvious. If God visits the sins of the father upon the son, but the son is a good, just person who has done nothing to deserve it, then God is unjust. I'd rather say that God has never done this, and that if this was ever said it would have been a ploy to keep people from sinning (didn't work out too well, I'd say.)
However, that comes straight out of Exodus, Chapter 20. Y'know--where the 10 commandments are. The one they made a movie out of.

Exactly.

So why the need to bitchslap them?

Hebrews 8:7,8
Something written by Paul does not trump jesus' words. Unless you want to say that Paul is more powerful than jesus, meaning that Paul is more powerful than god. Do you want to say that?

The problem should be pretty obvious. If God visits the sins of the father upon the son, but the son is a good, just person who has done nothing to deserve it, then God is unjust. I'd rather say that God has never done this, and that if this was ever said it would have been a ploy to keep people from sinning (didn't work out too well, I'd say.)

Seems to me one can escape such things by not hating the Lord. Alot of times, this has been accomplished.

So why the need to bitchslap them?

To prove that they are false.

To prove that they are false.

Why do you need to prove that they are false? You're not telling me that god is that insecure are you?

Something written by Paul does not trump jesus' words. Unless you want to say that Paul is more powerful than jesus, meaning that Paul is more powerful than god. Do you want to say that?

Well, according to the Bible Paul writes what Jesus or God told him.

Edit: Jesus even publicly challenged many of the laws the Jews made.

Nope, the new covenant was designed to take away the old covenant.

Wrong again, Jesus he did not come to change the law.


Okay let me give the story of Christ in a Parable. Like Christ did alot.


Iniana 1865, there was a school. a one room school house. In this school was a class, and Guy Walker was a member of this class. IN the last 6 years, Guy had beaten up 7 teachers and made them quit. To day they were getting a new teacher.

In walked Jeb washington, a squeaky man about 5 feet tall. Guy was around 6 ft 250 pounds (a big guy).

Jeb put his stuff away and turned to the class and said, "I am the teacher and i will be here as long as i want and no one here is gonna make me leave." This was greeted by laughter from the students. Guy had made 7 teachers leave. This teacher had to be out of his mind.

Jeb continued, "theres gonna be rules". More laughter. "Your gonna obey them" more laughter. He pointed to a whipping stick in teh corner. "and if not you will be punished" More hysterical laughter. Now he pulled a stump card on them "and your gonna make the rules." Utter silence.

Finally one kid spoke up, "well we should lie to eachother," Jeb said "okay " he wrote it on the board "whats the punishemnt" another kid said "ten lashes." well this continued on until they had a list of Ten rules to follow.

The first semmester passed with out one rule being broken.
2nd semmester, one kid came in from recess and said "teacher someone stole my lunch"

When the kids came back in Jeb asked the class "who stole his lunch" Every body said not me. Jeb asked again. again everyone denied it. Jeb said " were not leaving until the person who did it comes forward." Finally a small boy, ghastly thin, his ribs were showing, and he was brused from where his father had hit him that morning, raised his hand. He burst into tears appologizing saying that he didnt have a lunch and that he was starving.

Jebs heart broke, but he told the boy to remove his shirt and come to the front of the Class. the boy had broken the first rule, he lied. As he came to the front The class protested, The kid who had the lunch said "NO he can have it its okay" and Jeb said no. cause the child knew the rules. and if he went unpunished, the rules no longer held their meaning.

Jeb told the kid to stand bending over the desk. He grabbed the whipping stick and raised it above his head. and was about to bring it down when from the back came. "NO!!!" Jeb turned to see Guy running down to the front. "NO!!!" Jeb was taken a back. Guy said "the rules say Ten Lashes for lieing." Jeb checked again and said "yes" Guy said" but it doesnt say who gets the lashes does it" Jeb checked again and said "No it doesnt" Guy took his shirt off and walked over to the desk. As he placed a hand on either side of the boy the boy realized what was happening and started to Protest "No GUy Dont!" But Guy was much bigger than he was and he couldnt move.

Guy nodded to Jeb and he raised the stick and brought it down CRACK! CRACK! CRACK! Tears began to form in Guys eyes. CRACK! the class was crying. CRAK! Jeb was crying. CRACK CRACK CRACK CRACK CRACK. Guy took the boy in his arms and gave him a hug.


This is what Christ did for us. The rules have not changed. The punishments for the Sins we commit still stand. The laws still stand. But Christ has taken the punishment for us.

Well, according to the Bible Paul writes what Jesus or God told him.

Edit: Jesus even publicly challenged many of the laws the Jews made.
Yet jesus said the laws were in effect. I'd say that ranks as quite the contradiction.

At the end of verse 9 it says declares the Lord Lord in this case means God.
And jesus wasn't?

Something written by Paul does not trump jesus' words. Unless you want to say that Paul is more powerful than jesus, meaning that Paul is more powerful than god. Do you want to say that?

At the end of verse 9 it says declares the Lord Lord in this case means God.

I offer a better explenation, the old testement is bullshit and shouldn't be taken literally.
How do you know which parts are litteral and which parts arnt? How do you know what to follow if it could all be a non literal mythology

How do you know which parts are litteral and which parts arnt? How do you know what to follow if it could all be a non literal mythology
It's the same with any religion.

You take the parts you like, as if you're at a salad bar. Central tenets you hold with a fair number of people, and the rest you discard or ignore.

And you take it all on faith.

*Snip*

This is what Christ did for us. The rules have not changed. The punishments for the Sins we commit still stand. The laws still stand. But Christ has taken the punishment for us.

While a lot of that is easily debatable (i can't be bothered), I will say that your last paragraph pretty much describes a new covenant.

This is what Christ did for us. The rules have not changed. The punishments for the Sins we commit still stand. The laws still stand. But Christ has taken the punishment for us.
Not according to Leviticus. Humans are unfit for sacrifice.

Why do you need to prove that they are false? You're not telling me that god is that insecure are you?

Well, back then the Hebrew religion was a tribal one, so gods sort of "fought" for dominance. I don't think people started thinking of the Hebrew God as universally powerful for a long time after Abraham.

Which goes back to my earlier post. If god does exsist then why all the killing? He's omnipotent so why no just appear to every person on the planet and hand over a bible, give a little demonstration and be done with it? No dead kiddies and a whole world worshipping you.

Yeah he could, But would everyone believe it. No. Wed still have skeptics saying this and that. I mean, Jesus appeared to the world. And not everyone believes in him. Yet he is God. so ure little theory doesnt work.

But say, Fire raining from the sky. Boils Plaugue Destruction. Youd believe that wouldnt you?

Why do you need to prove that they are false? You're not telling me that god is that insecure are you?

How are you going to prove that you are indeed real in Egypt? You attack their gods. God attacked the gods of Egypt and showed them to be false gods to the land of Egypt.

If you believe in "free will", and "God" at the same time, you have to allow for the test of faith.

Otherwise, everything is predestined, and whatever I do, I can say, "God willed it".
So god is not omnipotent?

But say, Fire raining from the sky. Boils Plaugue Destruction. Youd believe that wouldnt you?

Do you even think before you post? God tried the boils, pestilence thing, is eveyone on the planet a Christian?

Rather than arguing biblical contradiction after contradiction, let's just list them and show both sides:


How handy!


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

While a lot of that is easily debatable (i can't be bothered), I will say that your last paragraph pretty much describes a new covenant.


right, a new covenent was made, but the the new covenent did not Change the laws.

While a lot of that is easily debatable (i can't be bothered), I will say that your last paragraph pretty much describes a new covenant.

Not if the old laws still stand.

So god is not omnipotent?


God is all knowing and all seeing. This was not contested by what he said.

It's the same with any religion.

You take the parts you like, as if you're at a salad bar. Central tenets you hold with a fair number of people, and the rest you discard or ignore.

And you take it all on faith.
But why believe in the peticular story if you are just picking and choosing?

Not according to Leviticus. Humans are unfit for sacrifice.

Also, according to the Hebrew and now Jewish tradition, God could never have had a son or equal. There's a lot that contradicts eariler traditions.

Rather than arguing biblical contradiction after contradiction, let's just list them and show both sides:


How handy!


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html


why submit ourselves to an obviously biased website

right, a new covenent was made, but the the new covenent did not Change the laws.

Yeah but Jesus doesn't expect you to obey it completely and be punished for the most smallest of sins as he realises you are not perfect.

How are you going to prove that you are indeed real in Egypt? You attack their gods. God attacked the gods of Egypt and showed them to be false gods to the land of Egypt.

Well for a start I would make sure that the leader of Egypt was still able to believe in me, hardening his heart wasn't gods brightest idea. And god didn't attack their gods, he attacked the people and just comes across as a bully.

why submit ourselves to an obviously biased website


What bias? It just quotes scripture. Look 'em up in your own bible. I have.

Do you even think before you post? God tried the boils, pestilence thing, is eveyone on the planet a Christian?

He has not done so for a few millenia. Soon though, boils and pestilence will return as plagues when it is time.

But why believe in the peticular story if you are just picking and choosing?

I think he was being sarcastic. In religion you CANT pick and choose which rules to follow. God said these are my Commandments. Keep them ALL. I will say i do not agree with everything the bible says. But i still live by it.

Not if the old laws still stand.

Covenent is not a bunch of laws. A covenent is an agreement between the people and God, the context of the agreement has been changed therefor a new covenent has been made.

God is all knowing and all seeing. This was not contested by what he said.
Sure it was

He stated that there needed to be a test of faith, because with free will god could not know what we would choose?

So the idea is simple if we really have free will does god know what we are going to choose? if so why the test of faith?

Well, back then the Hebrew religion was a tribal one, so gods sort of "fought" for dominance. I don't think people started thinking of the Hebrew God as universally powerful for a long time after Abraham.

Christian use the old testament as part of their belief in one all-powerful god. Belief at the time is irrelevent, either god has always been the same or christians are wrong, there is no middle ground with omnipotency.

Also, according to the Hebrew and now Jewish tradition, God could never have had a son or equal. There's a lot that contradicts eariler traditions.

Even though their own prophecy talks of one?

why submit ourselves to an obviously biased website

I say that the religious should read the Skeptic's scriptures and the atheists should read theist philosophy and commentary. It's good to know why you believe what you believe, and why you don't believe what you don't.

He has not done so for a few millenia. Soon though, boils and pestilence will return as plagues when it is time.


Sigh Revelations is a good read, though sometimes i think jon was stoned when he saw the visions. i mean 7 horns with 7 Crowns and 7 eyes, and 4 creatures covered in eyes.

Little creepy dont you think?:p

I think he was being sarcastic. In religion you CANT pick and choose which rules to follow. God said these are my Commandments. Keep them ALL. I will say i do not agree with everything the bible says. But i still live by it.
He was not being sarcastic he was being realistic ... all people in religons do it at some point or another (But him unlike a lot of religous folks is not blind to what they are doing)

What bias? It just quotes scripture. Look 'em up in your own bible. I have.

It does say SKEPTICSannotatedbible. That kinda mean it is done by skeptics.

Sure it was

He stated that there needed to be a test of faith, because with free will god could not know what we would choose?

So the idea is simple if we really have free will does god know what we are going to choose? if so why the test of faith?


Tests of faith are not for us. They are for others to see that even in the face of tribulation, we still praise the lord. READ JOB!

Even though their own prophecy talks of one?

I was going by passages like - "They wickedly attributed sons and daughters to God", they being Hebrews who were getting bored of just having one god. I'm paraphrasing, and I don't remember where in the Old Testament this shows up, but it does several times.

He has not done so for a few millenia. Soon though, boils and pestilence will return as plagues when it is time.

And the last time he did it, did everyone convert to christianity? Hell if some bully showed up on my street and started trying to force people to look up to him then I know I'd try to take him down, and I know most other people would. If god thinks this is the best way to get follower then he really doesn't understand human nature.

He was not being sarcastic he was being realistic ... all people in religons do it at some point or another (But him unlike a lot of religous folks is not blind to what they are doing)

yes but they are wrong in doing so. I understand why Homosexuality is a sin, i dont neccisarily agree with it. But i go with it cause its in the bible.

Tests of faith are not for us. They are for others to see that even in the face of tribulation, we still praise the lord. READ JOB!
I have … I find it a particularity trite portion of the bible … god being an ass like in a good chunk of the bible

Thank god (pun intended) that that god character changed persona’s in the new testament the vengeful god thing was getting tiresome

Sigh Revelations is a good read, though sometimes i think jon was stoned when he saw the visions. i mean 7 horns with 7 Crowns and 7 eyes, and 4 creatures covered in eyes.

Little creepy dont you think?:p

It is apocalyptic writing. In other words symbolism. That does not mean we do not know what is going to happen. We do because of Revelations. I am just not expecting the beast of the sea to have seven heads with one of them having a healed fatal head wound done by a sword (according to the King James Version)

yes but they are wrong in doing so. I understand why Homosexuality is a sin, i dont neccisarily agree with it. But i go with it cause its in the bible.
Yeah right …

Not wearing mixed clothing is in the bible too as well as not eating meat and not sitting on a chair that has been used by a woman during her period

Do you still ask women to make a sacrifice every month to “purify” themselves too?

I say that the religious should read the Skeptic's scriptures and the atheists should read theist philosophy and commentary. It's good to know why you believe what you believe, and why you don't believe what you don't.


try going on the Atheists of America website, where they take scripture they dont understand and say it means this when it means that.

Like for instance on Prayer in school

They use the verse "go into the closet and pray that way" as a way to say even the bible says dont pray in school.

when in context it says, "dont stand and pray in front of the synnagauge for all to see, instead go into the closet and pray that way"

Meaning dont pray to make yourself look good. pray to talk to God.

It does say SKEPTICSannotatedbible. That kinda mean it is done by skeptics.

So skeptics wrote the bible?

Yeah right …

Not wearing mixed clothing is in the bible too as well as not eating meat and not sitting on a chair that has been used by a woman during her period

Do you still ask women to make a sacrifice every month to “purify” themselves too?


With The comming of Christ all sacrifices are no longer needed. And leviticus has alot of rules that pertained to the time. dont where wool and Cotten together. Today we find these stupid, but back then, they were Law.

With The comming of Christ all sacrifices are no longer needed. And leviticus has alot of rules that pertained to the time. dont where wool and Cotten together. Today we find these stupid, but back then, they were Law.
Matthew 5 5:17.

They still are law.

I was going by passages like - "They wickedly attributed sons and daughters to God", they being Hebrews who were getting bored of just having one god. I'm paraphrasing, and I don't remember where in the Old Testament this shows up, but it does several times.

The word wicked appears 34 times in the bible. Wickedness appears 14 times in the Bible. I could quote all of them if ya like :p

try going on the Atheists of America website, where they take scripture they dont understand and say it means this when it means that.

Like for instance on Prayer in school

They use the verse "go into the closet and pray that way" as a way to say even the bible says dont pray in school.

when in context it says, "dont stand and pray in front of the synnagauge for all to see, instead go into the closet and pray that way"

Meaning dont pray to make yourself look good. pray to talk to God.
What makes your interpretation better then theirs?

So skeptics wrote the bible?


No skeptics took scripture they dont understand and try to use it against us Christians.

try going on the Atheists of America website, where they take scripture they dont understand and say it means this when it means that.

Like for instance on Prayer in school

They use the verse "go into the closet and pray that way" as a way to say even the bible says dont pray in school.

when in context it says, "dont stand and pray in front of the synnagauge for all to see, instead go into the closet and pray that way"

Meaning dont pray to make yourself look good. pray to talk to God.

Fine, then. The important thing is that you read the other sides' arguments and know why you disagree with them.

No skeptics took scripture they dont understand and try to use it against us Christians.

No, skeptics took scripture, compared it to other scripture, and pointed out the contradiction.

Look at it. Case in point: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/tempt_God.html

What makes your interpretation better then theirs?


Because ones what it actually says, and the other is taking the verse out of context to try to further your own agenda.

With The comming of Christ all sacrifices are no longer needed. And leviticus has alot of rules that pertained to the time. dont where wool and Cotten together. Today we find these stupid, but back then, they were Law.
Exactly a sign of religion following the times , not the other way around. As we grew beyond needing some of these (stupid) rules (hell many of them we did not really need at all) we moved passed it and nullified the need to follow them.

And the last time he did it, did everyone convert to christianity?

I think you are not understanding what is being said here. It was not to convert people to judiaism (since this was done in Exodus and thus BEFORE CHRIST), but to prove beyond doubt that God is more powerful than the gods of Egypt. He was waging spiritual warfare in essence against the gods of Egypt.

Hell if some bully showed up on my street and started trying to force people to look up to him then I know I'd try to take him down, and I know most other people would. If god thinks this is the best way to get follower then he really doesn't understand human nature.

That is a nice analogy. A real good one actually.

Matthew 5 5:17.

They still are law.


but now a days we would freeze to death or die of heatstroke if we didnt wear clothes of more than one cloth, and the purpose of a sacrifice was to clense ureself of sins. By believeing in Christ and accepting him as the messiah your sins are forgiven so you have no need for sacrifice.

Because ones what it actually says, and the other is taking the verse out of context to try to further your own agenda.
As opposed to all the Christians I know taking things out of context to prove their own agenda?

Personally I just think the whole thing is a good mythology, but hey.

Because ones what it actually says, and the other is taking the verse out of context to try to further your own agenda.

To be fair, I see a lot of the religious right wing here in the States doing that to advance their own goals. Sometimes they stretch out Biblical quotes so badly that I can't even see a connection between the quote and their conclusion. Never mind that some of these influential conservative clerics (hello Pat Robertson) seem to completely ignore the Prophets and most of the New Testament in their political agenda.

Also, according to the Hebrew and now Jewish tradition, God could never have had a son or equal. There's a lot that contradicts eariler traditions.
Just shows to go....

but now a days we would freeze to death or die of heatstroke if we didnt wear clothes of more than one cloth, and the purpose of a sacrifice was to clense ureself of sins. By believeing in Christ and accepting him as the messiah your sins are forgiven so you have no need for sacrifice.

Is belief in Christ enough? I could of sworn you had to honestly repent for your sins. That means not continuing to sin and claiming it's alright by god because you believe in Jesus.

Atleast that's the anti-gay argument.

but now a days we would freeze to death or die of heatstroke if we didnt wear clothes of more than one cloth, and the purpose of a sacrifice was to clense ureself of sins. By believeing in Christ and accepting him as the messiah your sins are forgiven so you have no need for sacrifice.
How would we freeze or die of heat any more then they did? Are people somehow different physically?

How would we freeze or die of heat any more then they did? Are people somehow different physically?


Absolutely not, that'd be evolution, and the work of the devil!

So skeptics wrote the bible?

No.

Exactly a sign of religion following the times , not the other way around. As we grew beyond needing some of these (stupid) rules (hell many of them we did not really need at all) we moved passed it and nullified the need to follow them.

and what rules do we not need at all.

How would we freeze or die of heat any more then they did? Are people somehow different physically?

very. people back then were much stronger than we are. Ud die after 4 days in the Desert, let alone 40 years

yes but they are wrong in doing so. I understand why Homosexuality is a sin, i dont neccisarily agree with it. But i go with it cause its in the bible.
Then bats are birds and epilepsy is caused by demons...because THAT is in the bible.

No skeptics took scripture they dont understand and try to use it against us Christians.

Even Christians do not understand everything about scriptures.

and what rules do we not need at all.
Ones that benefit society … society is a massively wonderful survival tool, it would be best to take advantage of that tool

very. people back then were much stronger than we are. Ud die after 4 days in the Desert, let alone 40 years

So nobody today could survive 4 days in the desert. I know a few dozen Military school graduates that could contest that. Then there were those students in the Andes. Not a desert but still....

Is belief in Christ enough? I could of sworn you had to honestly repent for your sins. That means not continuing to sin and claiming it's alright by god because you believe in Jesus.

Atleast that's the anti-gay argument.


By believing in Christ if you truely believe in him and love him you dont want to sin against him anymore. Your sins hurt Jesus, so you want to repent and turn away.

By believing in Christ if you truely believe in him and love him you dont want to sin against him anymore. Your sins hurt Jesus, so you want to repent and turn away.

Hi, you just contradicted yourself:

but now a days we would freeze to death or die of heatstroke if we didnt wear clothes of more than one cloth, and the purpose of a sacrifice was to clense ureself of sins. By believeing in Christ and accepting him as the messiah your sins are forgiven so you have no need for sacrifice.


Weeee!

very. people back then were much stronger than we are. Ud die after 4 days in the Desert, let alone 40 years

bullshit.

I've spent more than six months in the desert, and I'm still alive. In fact, I've been to various deserts (in the US and Middle East and North Africa) and I'm still alive.

On foot. And I'm not some extraordinary specimen.

very. people back then were much stronger than we are. Ud die after 4 days in the Desert, let alone 40 years
Have any proof that we are physically different or are you letting nostalgia make up stories in your head?

Ones that benefit society … society is a massively wonderful survival tool, it would be best to take advantage of that tool


and when Society has an ungodly viewpoint, like todays for instance. Should i abandon my law to fit in?

try going on the Atheists of America website, where they take scripture they dont understand and say it means this when it means that.
How do you know they don't understand it? And don't give me that nonsense about "needing the holy spirit".


Like for instance on Prayer in school

They use the verse "go into the closet and pray that way" as a way to say even the bible says dont pray in school.
It says to not make a show of it, which is what they say it says. However, the people who want to put coerced prayer back into schools (you realize that prayer was never banned in schools, right?) just want to make a show of it.

As opposed to all the Christians I know taking things out of context to prove their own agenda?

Personally I just think the whole thing is a good mythology, but hey.


Theres people who do it on both sides, but their wrong in doing so, dont condem the whole religion for one persons mistakes.

By believing in Christ if you truely believe in him and love him you dont want to sin against him anymore. Your sins hurt Jesus, so you want to repent and turn away.

Your location tag: at ure home in bed with ure wife.

Now why would you be there in complete violation of God's law?

im sorry i didnt travel back in time to do an autopsy and then travel back.

So you admit you were just making it up then?

Edit: Bearing false witness.

Edit2: Stupid Jolt

Have any proof that we are physically different or are you letting nostalgia make up stories in your head?


im sorry i didnt travel back in time to do an autopsy and then travel back.

Your location tag: at ure home in bed with ure wife.

Now why would you be there in complete violation of God's law?


yes it is and i forgot it was there actually, i put that on to tick someone off. ;) :sniper: (im the smiley face getting shot)

and when Society has an ungodly viewpoint, like todays for instance. Should i abandon my law to fit in?
Ideally the rules required by society would be minimal, but yes if you violate some of the basic rules needed for a functioning society you should either follow them or leave?

Most of them are pretty basic, you know the “Thou shalt not kill” sort

Above the basics there should be no rules applied by a society, you can choose to follow your OWN rules above and beyond (lets say honoring the Sabbath)

But those personal rules should have as little effect as possible on the rest of us that do not wish to follow them

yes it is and i forgot it was there actually, i put that on to tick someone off. ;) :sniper: (im the smiley face getting shot)

We are to love everyone, even those who make us upset. It really is unchristianlike to try to "piss" someone off.

Ideally the rules required by society would be minimal, but yes if you violate some of the basic rules needed for a functioning society you should either follow them or leave?

Most of them are pretty basic, you know the “Thou shalt not kill” sort

Above the basics there should be no rules applied by a society, you can choose to follow your OWN rules above and beyond (lets say honoring the Sabbath)

But those personal rules should have as little effect as possible on the rest of us that do not wish to follow them

Just read the words in red, then. You'll find it basic and inoffensive.

How do you know they don't understand it? And don't give me that nonsense about "needing the holy spirit".



It says to not make a show of it, which is what they say it says. However, the people who want to put coerced prayer back into schools (you realize that prayer was never banned in schools, right?) just want to make a show of it.

The non-ban must extend to school sporting events. At a track meet in Rome, GA, which is a pretty backwoods town, we had a Christian prayer over the loudspeakers. Hey, it doesn't bother me, but some people get pissed about it.

We are to love everyone, even those who make us upset. It really is unchristianlike to try to "piss" someone off.


99% of those who claim to be Christian are nothing like Christ. Hence I use the term Xian, it's pronounced the same as Christian, but with a distinct lack of emphasis on Christ.

im sorry i didnt travel back in time to do an autopsy and then travel back.
That’s fine but making wild claims built on almost nothing will get you no where really, most of us like to at least debate something resembling reality

We are to love everyone, even those who make us upset. It really is unchristianlike to try to "piss" someone off.



well i was younger at the time.

well i was younger at the time.

At the time? Judging by your nation you've only been around about a year.

Hi, you just contradicted yourself:




Weeee!


Okay you got me, so now my question is this, do you really have questions about Christianity, or are u just here to keep my from talking to other people and spreading my Evil voodoo magic.

99% of those who claim to be Christian are nothing like Christ. Hence I use the term Xian, it's pronounced the same as Christian, but with a distinct lack of emphasis on Christ.

I've heard the term "Crosstian". I think George Bernard Shaw coined it because he didn't like the focus of mainstream Christianity or something like that.

At the time? Judging by your nation you've only been around about a year.

alots happened since then, you know as christians were also supposed to Forgive and Forget?

Okay you got me, so now my question is this, do you really have questions about Christianity, or are u just here to keep my from talking to other people and spreading my Evil voodoo magic.
He was the original question asker I think … on how can a just god murder innocent children

99% of those who claim to be Christian are nothing like Christ. Hence I use the term Xian, it's pronounced the same as Christian, but with a distinct lack of emphasis on Christ.

Do you have proof to back up your 99% claim?

The non-ban must extend to school sporting events.
You don't grasp the concept of "coerced".


At a track meet in Rome, GA, which is a pretty backwoods town, we had a Christian prayer over the loudspeakers. Hey, it doesn't bother me, but some people get pissed about it.
People like Mormons and Catholics. As I recall, families of those have sued to have prayers stopped at games in Texas.

Do you have proof to back up your 99% claim?

Other than ancedotal, not so much.

bullshit.

I've spent more than six months in the desert, and I'm still alive. In fact, I've been to various deserts (in the US and Middle East and North Africa) and I'm still alive.

On foot. And I'm not some extraordinary specimen.



okay....you want a cookie? i mean not to be rude, but u keep hiting at the minor details and your not looking at the big picture.