NationStates Jolt Archive

My scenario is better.. It leaves almost no room for lame excuses..

the way I see it the bottom line is:

If there is a practical way to help the persecuted Muslims.. Would you do it.. (risking the 20 years) ??
what lame exscuse... putting their family over a stranger?

it wont matter where I am when I'm asked, I still cannot because, as I said, the opportunities to be caught is too high. (Governt worker living next door, and one floor below next to the only stairs up to my floor.) A place where cops frequent to 'hang out' lots of people present all the time. busy civic center with an unobstructed view of my only door in or out of my apartment and half of my windows.

I will risk my office. I am alone, there is a fridge and toaster oven inside, restrooms nearby... access to showers... and I already have a sleeping bag hidden away for any projects that require me to be there 'overnight.' Computer w/ internet access, I have a DVD player hidden away... a video game system...

and I have the only key to that office... :D

Why do you apparently think that I believe in an afterlife? There ain't nothing out there I know of but the things I see here happen to be important to me.
Then you are a fool. To die, knowing that you will never know the consequences of your “sacrifice,” I can think of nothing more nonsensical. If you’re going to be dead, why does it matter?

But those interpretations are necessarily baseless inferences. When asked a question, people should answer the question asked. Otherwise they're just making noise.
um... I'm agreeing with you. almost everyone is reading more than what the OP posted. ;)

Then you are a fool. To die, knowing that you will never know the consequences of your “sacrifice,” I can think of nothing more nonsensical. If you’re going to be dead, why does it matter?
People who are dead have helped you to gain freedoms. I can think of nothing more nonsensical than to shit on their sacrifice.

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen so many armchair would-be freedom fighters congregate in one place before, it's quite pathetic. Face it, if it was like this then there would have been a revolution in Nazi Germany long before the holocaust happened. So let's stop with the gung-ho 'fight the power' fantasies and just admit that you'd do what the vast majority of people would do in the circumstances - keep your heads down and lay low.

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen so many armchair would-be freedom fighters congregate in one place before, it's quite pathetic. Face it, if it was like this then there would have been a revolution in Nazi Germany long before the holocaust happened. So let's stop with the gung-ho 'fight the power' fantasies and just admit that you'd do what the vast majority of people would do in the circumstances - keep your heads down and lay low.
welcome to NSG! :D

welcome to NSG! :D
Hehe, I've been here a very long time. But I let my account NationStates account go idle, I only logged in from the forums. Damn 30 day idle limits....

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen so many armchair would-be freedom fighters congregate in one place before, it's quite pathetic. Face it, if it was like this then there would have been a revolution in Nazi Germany long before the holocaust happened. So let's stop with the gung-ho 'fight the power' fantasies and just admit that you'd do what the vast majority of people would do in the circumstances - keep your heads down and lay low.


What do you expect? everyone on NS is armchair, thats why we're on computers instead of soapboxes

People who are dead have helped you to gain freedoms. I can think of nothing more nonsensical than to shit on their sacrifice.
None of those people’s sacrifices really mattered. They were the instruments of the powers that were and any other man or women could have stood in their place ,and at the moments of their deaths, most of them weren’t fighting for any ideal, but merely to stay alive.

I would most definitely hide one, or two. Or however many I can orchestrate.

And if they end up punishing me, it will still have been worth it.

You are a good man.

What do you expect? everyone on NS is armchair, thats why we're on computers instead of soapboxes
They should just drop the pretence and admit that they wouldn't lift a finger.

None of those people’s sacrifices really mattered. They were the instruments of the powers that were and any other man or women could have stood in their place ,and at the moments of their deaths, most of them weren’t fighting for any ideal, but merely to stay alive.
What utter bullshit. People aren't a handful of plastic green armymen.

They should just drop the pretence and admit that they wouldn't lift a finger.
Justify your cowardice in whatever way makes you feel better.

What utter bullshit. People aren't a handful of plastic green armymen.
No. We are generally a hundred to a couple and a half hundred pounds of carbon based matter and water with an admittedly complex, yet flawed, structure.

Justify your cowardice in whatever way makes you feel better.
You do the same with your pointless death and needless suffering.

Justify your cowardice in whatever way makes you feel better.
I'm just a realist. Better than being some fantasist who's been watching too many Rambo films.

None of those people’s sacrifices really mattered. They were the instruments of the powers that were and any other man or women could have stood in their place.
:rolleyes:

I hope you also realize you are spitting on the lives of all firefighters, police officers and medics that died doing their job. you are belittiling those that died so that you can critisise our government. their sacrifice allows you to cast your vote to effect changes in our Government. You are sulling the memories of those soldiers who died rescuing your fellow countrymen as they were held hostage by some foreign power... you are turning your back on all those people who fought so that the wars of oppression do not touch your shores.

and you do so without a whit of the same courage that those people you dismiss so readily, showed time and time again.

what lame exscuse... You have already explained why it is not practical for you.. and found another way to help them.. Money.

I think one should help in practical ways..

Probably, leaning to yes.

I hope you also realize you are spitting on the lives of all firefighters, police officers and medics that died doing their job.
I suppose I am.
you are belittiling those that died so that you can critisise our government. their sacrifice allows you to cast your vote to effect changes in our Government.
Effect changes? How wonderfully naive. Democracy is little more than dictatorship by propaganda. The only reason we have any rights at all is too placate the masses so that they will continue to gobble up the garbage of those currently in power.
You are sulling the memories of those soldiers who died rescuing your fellow countrymen as they were held hostage by some foreign power...
I'm an American. This country was born from a power struggle between merchants of varying stripes and a government that got a little tax happy to pay for a war that ultimately protected those same merchants from far worse French governance. The only other war in our history where we were anywhere near threatened by foreign invasion, we started.
you are turning your back on all those people who fought so that the wars of oppression do not touch your shores.
Never would have happened.
and you do so without a whit of the same courage that those people you dismiss so readily, showed time and time again.
Courage is just a nicer word for stupidity.

When you come back, make sure you bring enough hash for everyone.

I'm back ... Hash all around!

Get down off that crucifix

Somebody may need the wood!

I'm back ... Hash all around!
corned beef? :D

For most people IRL, Hawaii still isn't a state! :D

It isn't ... Hawaii is a state of mind!

The only place someone with that lineage would fit in- Sesame Street. :p

Yes ... but can you show me how to get there?

People on this forum for the past year have called me a lunatic for saying that it will happen.

No, we call you a lunatic because you *are* a lunatic. :D

You crazy bastard!

Yes ... but can you show me how to get there?
:D Someone's in a good mood today :D

I think every jewish Person is a Zionist, if you follow exactly what a Zionist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism) is.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

pwned.

Okay many people here are (as near as i can tell) taking this flippantly in the sense of what would be the right thing to do. Sincerely i would not hide a Muslim if it meant 20 years in jail if i was caught! That's ridiculous. I'ma pragmatist and im not going to risk my future for someone i don't know. If any of you actually would risk it for someone you do not know, I applaud you for being a much better person than i am.

As an American Muslim, I guess I wouldn't be much help in this situation (you know, because I would be one of the people hiding). But I doubt that this would ever happen.

Asala'am Alaikum. You can hide at my place. I'm apostate, so they won't suspect me as much.

Well ... maybe.

Asala'am Alaikum. You can hide at my place. I'm apostate, so they won't suspect me as much.

Well ... maybe.
why the hell not... you'd be deported to Molokai. :D

about the 40%+ in this forum that would not hide them.. well.. I think they are *******.


You'd hide me and you know it. I'd bring pot and beer!

Asala'am Alaikum. You can hide at my place. I'm apostate, so they won't suspect me as much.

Well ... maybe.

Hey, thanks!

Then again, maybe they wouldn't suspect me either. I drink beer, so I'm not the most orthodox guy around.

Asala'am Alaikum. You can hide at my place. I'm apostate, so they won't suspect me as much.

Well ... maybe.

I wouldn't count on it

Hey, thanks!

Then again, maybe they wouldn't suspect me either. I drink beer, so I'm not the most orthodox guy around.

theres an idea if your a muslim and want to avoid the camps just stock copious amounts of bacon and alcohol in your fridge :D

:D Someone's in a good mood today :D

Oh I'm great! Had a great day at the studio, laid down some great tracks. My students were attentive and did very well. and I come home to my wife in a good mood and my kids well behaved.

Life is good today!

You'd hide me and you know it. I'd bring pot and beer!pot and beer!!:D you are in.

Hey, thanks!

Then again, maybe they wouldn't suspect me either. I drink beer, so I'm not the most orthodox guy around.

Well ... if the Muslims come for you, just explain to them that your body is Allah's and if Allah didn't want you to drink beer, then it would never pass your lips. (hooray Insh'allah clause!) If the Westerners come for you, just say you tried it out of propoganda ignorance and that you need time to truly examine what you believe (note: this only works as long as the 1st Amendment is in place).

theres an idea if your a muslim and want to avoid the camps just stock copious amounts of bacon and alcohol in your fridge :D
actually, getting a non muslim friend to cook some bacon in a pan and leave that on your stove. that will add to the illusion. ;)

pot and beer!!:D you are in.

Awesome! Awesome to the max! :D

Well ... if the Muslims come for you, just explain to them that your body is Allah's and if Allah didn't want you to drink beer, then it would never pass your lips. (hooray Insh'allah clause!) If the Westerners come for you, just say you tried it out of propoganda ignorance and that you need time to truly examine what you believe (note: this only works as long as the 1st Amendment is in place).
:confused: Would that Insh'allah clause thing really work???


leave a couple of Bibles around also... that will also make em think that you are "re-thinking" your religion... Dog ear a couple of pages and highlight some verses to add to the illusion.

:confused: Would that Insh'allah clause thing really work???

Actually, yes. It worked for me on smoking cigarettes. When I was Muslim and going to mosque daily, my Imam mentioned about my smoking and I said, "These are Allah's lungs, are they not? If Allah didn't want smoke in them, Allah would strike the cigarette out of my hand or render me incapable of inhaling". Yes it works. Religious idiots are easy to manipulate.

Dog ear a couple of pages and highlight some verses to add to the illusion.

Does that work if you're caught in the motel room with a prostitute who isn't you wife?

Actually, yes. It worked for me on smoking cigarettes. When I was Muslim and going to mosque daily, my Imam mentioned about my smoking and I said, "These are Allah's lungs, are they not? If Allah didn't want smoke in them, Allah would strike the cigarette out of my hand or render me incapable of inhaling". Yes it works. Religious idiots are easy to manipulate.



Does that work if you're caught in the motel room with a prostitute who isn't you wife?depends... will she be crying out to God! and what posistion will she be in when she's doing the... erm... praying.

if she's not in the proper posistion... then probably not. :D

depends... will she be crying out to God! and what posistion will she be in when she's doing the... erm... praying.

if she's not in the proper posistion... then probably not. :D

So if she's in proper salat ....

Hehehehe.... thank you, JuNii ... an awesome laugh out loud moment.

Actually, yes. It worked for me on smoking cigarettes. When I was Muslim and going to mosque daily, my Imam mentioned about my smoking and I said, "These are Allah's lungs, are they not? If Allah didn't want smoke in them, Allah would strike the cigarette out of my hand or render me incapable of inhaling". Yes it works. Religious idiots are easy to manipulate.



Does that work if you're caught in the motel room with a prostitute who isn't you wife?

Too bad that the insh'allah thing wouldn't work with my father's family. If my grandmother knew that I drink she would probably cry.

As for the Bible/motel room, you can say that you were trying to convert a sinner! Problem solved.

Too bad that the insh'allah thing wouldn't work with my father's family. If my grandmother knew that I drink she would probably cry.

Well, my brother in Islam, your grandmother may come around (Insh'allah).

If not, well, remember that you must live your life, not hers.

Well, my brother in Islam, your grandmother may come around (Insh'allah).

If not, well, remember that you must live your life, not hers.

My grandma doesn't want me to use the internet but what am I doing now?

My grandma doesn't want me to use the internet but what am I doing now?

Wait ... your grandma doesn't want you to use the internet? SKin her and eat her sweet, sweet flesh now!

The internet shall be the salvation of the people!

Long live the New Flesh!!

Well, my brother in Islam, your grandmother may come around (Insh'allah).

If not, well, remember that you must live your life, not hers.

Well, naturally. She's halfway around the world from me, though, so I'm not worried about it.

The internet shall be the salvation of the people!

Long live the New Flesh!!

Amen!

I'm just a realist. Better than being some fantasist who's been watching too many Rambo films.
My Rambo comment is being taken seriously? I just meant that I would take up arms under certain circumstances, not hold a town hostage singlehandedly.

Would I hide an unknown fugitive, sure. Duration of the conflict may be a bit much but I know some places where he or she could hide out for years if necessary. They would have to acquire much of their own food of they stayed there, mostly through trapping, fishing or a like activity but it could be done easily enough. I would just request that if he/she were cauht that they would deny any link to me.

I voted no for a few reasons.

1: My apartment is not a good place to hide anyone.

2: I cannot affect change in the government from a prison cell

3: I don't invite strangers (no matter their race, religion, or reason) into my apartment.

4: As others have said, how can I trust that this person is who they say they are?


If I were Muslim, and this situation happened, I would not expect any of my friends/family that have kids to hide me. They are responsible for their childrens safety, and not mine (I also wouldn't go to their door, as my friends and their kids are like family to me, and I would not want to put family in danger).

If one of my friends converted to Islam, and this situation happened, I would of course do what I could for them, short of hiding them. I'd probably give them food for a trip to the Canadian border (as that's the closest border to my location), as much cash as I could, and also my credit card, with the understanding that I'd have to report it missing/stolen in 24 hours.

Hypothetical situation:

It's about three years from now, and after a few more major attacks by militant Islamic terrorists on Western nations (killing more than a few thousand each time), some Western nations (the one you live in perhaps) are finally fed up with it, and in desperation for a solution that will placate the angry electorate (which you may not be a part of, since you may not be angry at all), they announce the registration and roundup of all Muslims in the country. From there, they will be sent to camps in a remote area of your country for "the duration of the conflict".

They also announce penalties for anyone hiding a "registered person" from lawful authorities - 20 years in prison.

About three months into the roundup, a Muslim appears at your door. You don't know who he is. He's asking you to hide him in your house for "the duration".

Would you hide him for "the duration", however long that might be?


Without a doubt . I would also form an undrground operation to free those imprisoned , by force if needed.

My Rambo comment is being taken seriously? I just meant that I would take up arms under certain circumstances, not hold a town hostage singlehandedly.
Actually I wasn't referring to the Rambo comment (I forgot who it actually was that posted that), just that a lot of those who say they'd fight in a resistance force are unrealistic fantasists who probably think it will all be Hollywood.

I'd send him to Canada through the underground railroad.

Actually I wasn't referring to the Rambo comment (I forgot who it actually was that posted that), just that a lot of those who say they'd fight in a resistance force are unrealistic fantasists who probably think it will all be Hollywood.

basing your revolutionary tactics on spielburg movies is a bad idea

The real question is, how can you tell if someone's a Muslim? As far as I remember, being a Muslim constitues following Islam, not being a member of a specific ethnic group. So consider that the odds are pretty good they wouldn't catch all the Muslims anyways.

Or did you mean Arab?

Substitute "Muslim" for "jew" and the germans did a pretty good job at it.

Hypothetical situation:

It's about three years from now, and after a few more major attacks by militant Islamic terrorists on Western nations (killing more than a few thousand each time), some Western nations (the one you live in perhaps) are finally fed up with it, and in desperation for a solution that will placate the angry electorate (which you may not be a part of, since you may not be angry at all), they announce the registration and roundup of all Muslims in the country. From there, they will be sent to camps in a remote area of your country for "the duration of the conflict".

They also announce penalties for anyone hiding a "registered person" from lawful authorities - 20 years in prison.

About three months into the roundup, a Muslim appears at your door. You don't know who he is. He's asking you to hide him in your house for "the duration".

Would you hide him for "the duration", however long that might be?

Is he holding explosives or screaming allahu ackbar?

:p

Is he holding explosives or screaming allahu ackbar?

:p
Are you holding your penis?

Actually I wasn't referring to the Rambo comment (I forgot who it actually was that posted that), just that a lot of those who say they'd fight in a resistance force are unrealistic fantasists who probably think it will all be Hollywood.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who would think that way.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who would think that way.
But when push comes to shove, you can guarantee that these people will just stay at home like everyone else. It's pathetic how so many people have such inflated egos.

But when push comes to shove, you can guarantee that these people will just stay at home like everyone else. It's pathetic how so many people have such inflated egos.
If I had the opportunity to help somebody in this situation, I would. I understand many wouldn't. I also understand that it is easier to say that you would than it is to actually follow through on it.

A Governent that goes so far as to order 'the whole lot' to Boncentration Bamps will also go so far as to use a very inclusionist definition of Muslim.

In fact, I'd bet a fair amount of money that the likes of me would ( in this scenario ) be counted as muslim based on skincolour.

very good point(they would be obviously around the bend)....any government that went to that extreme in this country(usa)would be soundly booted from office,or hung..or both.
dont let the neocons or fearmongers misrepresent this country.
their would be an armed rebellion if such a thing even began to take shape.
thank the forefathers for the 2nd amendment,precisely this kinda thing is why it was written...but i digress...the vast majority of americans are fair and decent people,and would not stand for such bullshit,and most are smart enought o realize..first them,then me..if not for moral reasons..self preservation.

Are you holding your penis?

Nope, but if you want.....

What kind of stupid question is that? It's a joke, for crying out loud, thus the ":p". Dobbsey are you losing your sight? C'mon man, there can't be that much of a difference between a yankee liberal and a conservative southerner when it's down to 1s and 0s.

C'mon man, there can't be that much of a difference between a yankee liberal and a conservative southerner when it's down to 1s and 0s.
No doubt, but then again... ...I'm neither a liberal nor a yankee.

As long as I know s/he's 100% a-okay and won't blow up my kitchen or something.

Hypothetical situation:

It's about three years from now, and after a few more major attacks by militant Islamic terrorists on Western nations (killing more than a few thousand each time), some Western nations (the one you live in perhaps) are finally fed up with it, and in desperation for a solution that will placate the angry electorate (which you may not be a part of, since you may not be angry at all), they announce the registration and roundup of all Muslims in the country. From there, they will be sent to camps in a remote area of your country for "the duration of the conflict".

They also announce penalties for anyone hiding a "registered person" from lawful authorities - 20 years in prison.

About three months into the roundup, a Muslim appears at your door. You don't know who he is. He's asking you to hide him in your house for "the duration".

Would you hide him for "the duration", however long that might be?
That's not even a question. Of course I would. What's more, I'd see to getting him and his family--if applicable--out of the country as soon as possible. Quite frankly, I'd do the same for myself as well if the United States ever degraded to such a point.

Nope, but if you want.....

What kind of stupid question is that? It's a joke, for crying out loud, thus the ":p". Dobbsey are you losing your sight? C'mon man, there can't be that much of a difference between a yankee liberal and a conservative southerner when it's down to 1s and 0s.Seemed to me like Dobbsy's reply was a joke too. Can't you take a joke?

Is he holding explosives or screaming allahu ackbar?

:p


It's a trap!!!

Right now yes. After all that happens and a little bit of porpoganda (which is the only way to get this passed) heck no.

Right now yes. After all that happens and a little bit of porpoganda (which is the only way to get this passed) heck no.

Sure. If he's not a terrorist, no problem. If he happend to be a terrorist, well, whoop-dee-doo, he's in my house. Maybe he'll terrorise the cat?

No doubt, but then again... ...I'm neither a liberal nor a yankee.


I think it's a fair say that you're a liberal.

Sure. If he's not a terrorist, no problem. If he happend to be a terrorist, well, whoop-dee-doo, he's in my house. Maybe he'll terrorise the cat?


Shoot shovel and shutup.

He was threatening you, and you were in fear for your life.

:p

Hypothetical situation:

It's about three years from now, and after a few more major attacks by militant Islamic terrorists on Western nations (killing more than a few thousand each time), some Western nations (the one you live in perhaps) are finally fed up with it, and in desperation for a solution that will placate the angry electorate (which you may not be a part of, since you may not be angry at all), they announce the registration and roundup of all Muslims in the country. From there, they will be sent to camps in a remote area of your country for "the duration of the conflict".

They also announce penalties for anyone hiding a "registered person" from lawful authorities - 20 years in prison.

About three months into the roundup, a Muslim appears at your door. You don't know who he is. He's asking you to hide him in your house for "the duration".

Would you hide him for "the duration", however long that might be?

What a terrible thread.

But to answer the question, yes, absolutely I would hide him, most likely from people like Deep Kimchi, who would be letting prejudice and stupidity fuel their efforts. Not only would I hide someone who came to my door, I would seek out people who were being persecuted by this insanity and offer my help. If possible I would assist with setting up an underground railroad, then I would actively and vigorously campaign to remove from office and send to the International Court (to be prosecuted with crimes against humanity) any official who had participated in the perpetration of that travesty to begin with.


What will you do, Deep Kimchi, if the next time such a persecution takes place, it is against a group of which YOU are a part?



When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892-1984)
An early supporter of Hitler, by 1934 Niemöller had come to oppose the Nazis, and it was largely his high connections to influential and wealthy businessmen that saved him until 1937, after which he was imprisoned, eventually at Sachsenhausen and Dachau concentration camps. He survived to be a leading voice of penance and reconciliation for the German people after World War II. His poem is well-known, frequently quoted, and is a popular model for describing the phenomenon of social chaos, as it often begins with specific and targeted fear and hatred which soon escalates out of control. (from wikipedia.org (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...))

Heck yeah I'd hide him!

But to answer the question, yes, absolutely I would hide him, most likely from people like Deep Kimchi, who would be letting prejudice and stupidity fuel their efforts. Not only would I hide someone who came to my door, I would seek out people who were being persecuted by this insanity and offer my help. If possible I would assist with setting up an underground railroad, then I would actively and vigorously campaign to remove from office and send to the International Court (to be prosecuted with crimes against humanity) any official who had participated in the perpetration of that travesty to begin with.


What will you do, Deep Kimchi, if the next time such a persecution takes place, it is against a group of which YOU are a part?


I don't recall Deep Kimchi ever saying that he wouldn't help Muslims or any other group avoid persecution. But maybe I missed something.

I don't recall Deep Kimchi ever saying that he wouldn't help Muslims or any other group avoid persecution. But maybe I missed something.

The tone of the original post led me to that conclusion and it is possible the conclusion was erroneous... if so I apologize. However, to anyone who would support such horrific situation, please insert YOUR name in place of Deep Kimchi's in my question.


EDIT* On further reading through the thread, it appears that my conclusion was NOT erroneous... Deep Kimchi actually seems to be in favor of genocide.

I don't recall Deep Kimchi ever saying that he wouldn't help Muslims or any other group avoid persecution. But maybe I missed something.

DK has advocated a full out holocaust-style genocide of muslims...

DK you need to start another thread "Would you hide a terrorist?"

I would....................













Under 6 feet of dirt and perennials ;)

DK has advocated a full out holocaust-style genocide of muslims...

I remember that thread, and I think it was in response to some question like "Would you wipe out the whole arabic world if it was necessary to keep America safe' or something similar.

Strangely, I agree....

Would MAD count as Genocide?

DK has advocated a full out holocaust-style genocide of muslims...

Okay, I saw DK's post further into the thread. My mistake.
Also: wow.

This post reminds me of that short story by William Burroughs, about the man who taught his asshole how to talk....

Hey, Sparky, that’s a good one. Almost as good as when I posted it a month and a half ago:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11269350&postcount=201

Try posting something creative next time, if you CAN :p

And BTW: it wasn't a "short story", it was the novel Naked Lunch.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Here's an even better one:

When they came as immigrants,
I remained silent;
I was not against immigration.

When they refused to assimilate,
I remained silent;
I was not in favor of assimilation.

When they became a majority,
I did not speak out;
I was not against majority rule.

When they imposed Sharia on me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Nobody's coming for Communists, social democrats, trade unionists, or Jews. Someone is coming for the non-infidels of the world. Nineteen of them hit us already. Dozens of them almost took out ten more aircraft and thousands more lives. More of them are lurking.

Wake up and face reality. We are at war, right now.

:mp5: Victory is the only option.

Yes, and if I as a Christian were being rounded up I hope they'd do the same. Us religions gotta stick together. :)

Here's an even better one:

When they came as immigrants,
I remained silent;
I was not against immigration.

So you're for discriminatory immigration? "White Christians only"?


When they refused to assimilate,
I remained silent;
I was not in favor of assimilation.


The European immigrants didn't assimilate to the Native American's way of life either. They massacred them. So if not assimilating with the majority is somehow wrong?


When they became a majority,
I did not speak out;
I was not against majority rule.


Standard anti-immigration fear-mongering. Ever seen the "Yellow Peril" propaganda from the 19th century? Not exactly overflowing with Chinese right now is it?


When they imposed Sharia on me,
there was no one left to speak out.


You can always emigrate. Some of your greatest citizens were first-generation immigrants - Einstein is one example.


Wake up and face reality. We are at war, right now.

War against terrorism - why isn't the priority bin Laden then?

You're a real prize, Mitanni. Good God.

I don't have much to add to JiangGuo's points, but your suggestion that a bunch of Muslims are going to flood the Western world and impose shariah on Europeans and Americans is incredible. How the hell are Muslims supposed to do that (assuming that most Muslims even desire it) when they can't even fix the problems in their own countries?

I think you're still falsely associating the twisted and extremist ideologies of the radical few with the entire Muslim population of the world. I shouldn't have to tell you why this is a mistake.

What a terrible thread.

But to answer the question, yes, absolutely I would hide him, most likely from people like Deep Kimchi, who would be letting prejudice and stupidity fuel their efforts. Not only would I hide someone who came to my door, I would seek out people who were being persecuted by this insanity and offer my help. If possible I would assist with setting up an underground railroad, then I would actively and vigorously campaign to remove from office and send to the International Court (to be prosecuted with crimes against humanity) any official who had participated in the perpetration of that travesty to begin with.


What will you do, Deep Kimchi, if the next time such a persecution takes place, it is against a group of which YOU are a part?



When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892-1984)
An early supporter of Hitler, by 1934 Niemöller had come to oppose the Nazis, and it was largely his high connections to influential and wealthy businessmen that saved him until 1937, after which he was imprisoned, eventually at Sachsenhausen and Dachau concentration camps. He survived to be a leading voice of penance and reconciliation for the German people after World War II. His poem is well-known, frequently quoted, and is a popular model for describing the phenomenon of social chaos, as it often begins with specific and targeted fear and hatred which soon escalates out of control. (from wikipedia.org (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...))

Almost tempted to pray that Kim Jong-Il pulls off something spectacularly horrible at the JSA just to see all the "K0r3anz r 3b1l" threads pop up and have someone suggest rounding up and/or sterilizing all Koreans. Then he might finally grasp what it feels like to be in those shoes.

whoa whoa whoa, so many posts on this thread are so fucked up. what the hell do people have against muslims? they act like christians have never caused a crime.

You consider saving a life pointless?

If you offered me that choice, I would spit in your face, and choose to die with my dignity.

You are the perfect example of a Christian who follows nothing of the teachings of the one you worship.

If your God exists, and if you actually would require conversion for help, your own God would rightfully condemn you for that.

Wake up and face reality. We are at war, right now.

Yes we are .... you, unfortunately, have no clue who the enemy actually is.

whoa whoa whoa, so many posts on this thread are so fucked up. what the hell do people have against muslims? they act like christians have never caused a crime.

Flavor of the week, my friend.

Here's an even better one:

When they came as immigrants,
I remained silent;
I was not against immigration.

When they refused to assimilate,
I remained silent;
I was not in favor of assimilation.

Ok, doing fine so far...


When they became a majority,
I did not speak out;
I was not against majority rule.

Whoops, and that's where it stumbles.

See, the people who tend to be comfortable with imigration and lack of "assimilation" are also people who tend to very strongly oppose the concept of "majority rules." Indeed, this is one of the main reasons WHY they don't show a knee-jerk support for assimilation! Majority rule is one of the best possible ways to create injustice, after all.

Most people who are comfortable with diversity in their culture are people who accept that the majority shouldn't always get its way simply by virture of being the majority.


When they imposed Sharia on me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Meh. My own government and fellow citizens do just fine stripping me of my civil and human rights. I think I'll worry more about them, first.


Wake up and face reality. We are at war, right now.

Which is why you have enlisted, yes?

*snip*
Nobody's coming for Communists, social democrats, trade unionists, or Jews. Someone is coming for the non-infidels of the world. Nineteen of them hit us already. Dozens of them almost took out ten more aircraft and thousands more lives. More of them are lurking.

Wake up and face reality. We are at war, right now.

:mp5: Victory is the only option. Queue Dramatic music, (furioso, I think is appropriate), Queue Slightly slowed scenes of Hitler giving a speech, scenes fading over each other. Queue echoing backgroung sound of Hitlers more intense speeches. "Eich Lieben Flitzen Burg! Die Dorfer ein SEIG GRUBEN AUTZENFAUTER! DER JEWBEN MUTTER AUCHWITZ VEBER KAISER OUT!!!" Hands waving, very scary, also somewhat awe inspiring and overwhelming.

Thats basically what played in my head when I read your post, which is funny because it is a recontexualisation of an anti-nazi poem. Nevertheless, I was just mosying over a copy of 'Mein kampf' today, and your post echos very much the same tone in regards to the Muslims, as Mein Kampf did towards Jews. You know, fearmongering, world-wide network of doom, Mass generalisation. Quite impressive that you seemed to nail it thus.

No, that's pretty much it. Eris makes a racial insult, nothing happens to him.

WHAT racial insult?

Armed Resistance only gives more credit to the people trying to take the rights of muslims away. If the only people supporting the rights of muslims are busy setting cars on fire

Why in the hell would I set cars on fire? How does that acomplish any sort of resistance?

Part of it was "or a gun owner". A gun owner does have to eat and can't be taken apart into small pieces.


Well, they CAN . . . it's just dificult to put them back together in a functional manner.

would you hide some that was a part of a religion that says that you are an infidel and that they must either convert you, banish you, or kill you?

or if you want to try to compare this to the nazis. if you were jewish, would you hide a member of the Nazi party? (thinking that for some reason the Nazi went into hiding)

People on this forum for the past year have called me a lunatic for saying that it will happen.

Watch it happen.

No, I call you a lunitic because you seem to WANT it to happen.

Here's an even better one:

When they came as immigrants,
I remained silent;
I was not against immigration.

When they refused to assimilate,
I remained silent;
I was not in favor of assimilation.

When they became a majority,
I did not speak out;
I was not against majority rule.

When they imposed Sharia on me,
there was no one left to speak out.



When did this happen then?

sorry but there are forms of action other than terrorism...


Terrorisim is when you kill civilians, not when you attack legitimate millitary targets. As the govenment controlls the military senitors, congress critters, the president, etc. would be legetimate targets in this hypothetical scenario.

In fact, I'd bet a fair amount of money that the likes of me would ( in this scenario ) be counted as muslim based on skincolour.

And yet you'd only offer shelter on the condition of conversion...

If there was any Jewish survivor of the holocaust reading this, I get the feeling you'd get some twacking from the senior citizen.

I don't think we owe muslims ( religious definition ) much in the way of favours.

And what exactly do non-Jews owe Jews hmmm? You seemed to think that all the world nations should be subservient to a nation of Jews didn't you?

Actually I wasn't referring to the Rambo comment (I forgot who it actually was that posted that), just that a lot of those who say they'd fight in a resistance force are unrealistic fantasists who probably think it will all be Hollywood.

No it will be blood and death and pain and as much terror for me as for those I fight against. I will probably die a horibly painful death but I will do what I think is right.

Yes. It was his idea.

Let me know when he's sterilized himself. He is a Muslim after all isn't he?

work the system from the inside. then get your people into key positions and effect change that way.

Stauffenberg tried that. He came close, but not quite there.

would you hide some that was a part of a religion that says that you are an infidel and that they must either convert you, banish you, or kill you?

This is about Muslims, not Christians.

would you hide some that was a part of a religion that says that you are an infidel and that they must either convert you, banish you, or kill you?

or if you want to try to compare this to the nazis. if you were jewish, would you hide a member of the Nazi party? (thinking that for some reason the Nazi went into hiding)
That half baked logic says that black people shouldn't help christians because the KKK supports the eradication or their race, (And the KKK takes everyone one of their teachings straight from the bible). I live in a town with a lot of muslims, and I have a lot of muslim friends. Never to this day have I met a muslim who believes I am an infidel and that they must either convert, banish, or kill me. Your insularity is giving me a headache. Islam is only as stupid as christianity, and those two are only slightly more stupid than the rest. That being said, as stupid as religions are, the world is full of good people, only a minority of asshats (Like yourself) manage to mess it up for the rest of us.

While your at avoiding muslims because they want to smite you, do you want to avoid chinese (Because they are communists, and want to redistribute your wealth), and pilots, (because they fly planes into buildings). Fuckstick.

Stauffenberg tried that. He came close, but not quite there.
and Schindler (sp?) saved alot of lives by working the system from the inside. ;)

Terrorisim is when you kill civilians, not when you attack legitimate millitary targets. As the govenment controlls the military senitors, congress critters, the president, etc. would be legetimate targets in this hypothetical scenario.
Terrorism is when you use terror as a weapon. You don't actually have to attack anyone. Like the way the IDF flys supersonic jets over palestinian populations as 3am (Creating a sonic boom). Perfect example of nonviolent terrorism there. It just so happens that attacking civilians is usually the best way to strike fear into their hearts. Also note that terrorism is about terrorising those who hold the power. Terrorists exist in dictatorships too, they terrorise the government. The unfortunate/ fortunate thing in the west is that the general public holds the most power (And they are rather easy to scare).

Hypothetical situation:

It's about three years from now, and after a few more major attacks by militant Islamic terrorists on Western nations (killing more than a few thousand each time), some Western nations (the one you live in perhaps) are finally fed up with it, and in desperation for a solution that will placate the angry electorate (which you may not be a part of, since you may not be angry at all), they announce the registration and roundup of all Muslims in the country. From there, they will be sent to camps in a remote area of your country for "the duration of the conflict".

They also announce penalties for anyone hiding a "registered person" from lawful authorities - 20 years in prison.

About three months into the roundup, a Muslim appears at your door. You don't know who he is. He's asking you to hide him in your house for "the duration".

Would you hide him for "the duration", however long that might be?
I want to qualify my statments
I am a Conservative Christian, I battle being bigoted against arabs(I live in a large arab community), I am for the summary execution of enemy combatants in the most horrific to make war through terror just like they do.

That being said, I would not hesistate to hide a man, woman, or child who came to me for aid.
I could not turn away a human being in need who feared for their lives and their freedom.
My bigotry and hate are my own problems and should not play into how i deal with the world, I want the world to be a better placve then I must rise above my own short comings and stand for something---not allowing a human to be "taken" is simething I would certainly stand for.

If for no other reason, then I would hope if the roles were reversed and I was working in Tehran and running from kidnappers or in Iraq or Palestine that when I asked for help---someone would ignore their personal instincts and do the right thing.

I would hide Musilm, inspite of myself.

Fuckstick.

I love that word.

I would definitely grant any Muslim asylum in my homestead. As someone stated before, the liklihood of him/her being a terrorist is minute.

Obviously it's one thing to say you would do something but another thing to actually do it in a crisis. Nevertheless, as a socialist I certainly hope that I would rise to the challenge and protect anyone hiding from persecution and violence. If I had a family, however, I'm not sure if I'd be willing to risk reprisals against them on behalf of a stranger.

I would do it because I have a family. My children need to see that I hold the strength of my convictions, that the concepts of freedom and equality must be maintained by the people--by families, by ordinary citizens.

I may be punished for the act, but my children would that goodness and morality are rarely the easy or the safe road.

Here's an even better one:


If by "better" you mean "fantastically idiotic, just as we're coming to expect from New Mitanni" you are correct.


When they came as immigrants,
I remained silent;
I was not against immigration.


OHNOES! Ye old "immigration is an invasion to subvert our bodily fluids" argument. Laughable.


When they refused to assimilate,
I remained silent;
I was not in favor of assimilation.


Ya know, YOU refuse to assimilate. I mean like how you're anti-American since you hate freedom.

But I guess refusing to "assimilate" is only a bad thing when brown people do it, AMIRITE?


When they became a majority,
I did not speak out;
I was not against majority rule.

You just go ahead and let me know how long it will take for Al Queda to have a majority in the USA. I'll be interested in knowing just how paranoid you are.

So? How many years?



Nobody's coming for Communists, social democrats, trade unionists, or Jews.

Well now that's odd, since people like you whine about how Evil Iran wants to Wipe Israel Off the Map.

And how radical Islam tends to hate on Judaism.

But I guess nobody's coming for the Jews after all. Good to know, spread the word, it seems they haven't heard this wonderful news yet in Israel.


Wake up and face reality. We are at war, right now.

What is it with people like you? You always say "wake up." Whether you're at Stormfront telling people to "wake up" to the Evil Jews or here, telling people to "wake up" to Evil Islam, you always assume everyone else is asleep and you - O Prophet - are awake and enlightened to "reality."

Well my friend, if you're awake, I suggest you hit the snooze button and go back to dreaming. The rest of us don't really want to buy what you're selling.


:mp5: Victory is the only option.

The emoticon really helps your argument.

Yes, i would. I don't see how bthey'd find anyone where I lvie anyway.

Here's an even better one:

When they came as immigrants,
I remained silent;
I was not against immigration.

So... they came as immigrants and you welcomed them. Good for you. YOUR people were immigrants once, too.

When they refused to assimilate,
I remained silent;
I was not in favor of assimilation.

So... when they shared with you their culture, you welcomed that. Good for you. Learn about your neighbors, make them feel welcome. Once upon a time, someone forced your ancestors to assimilate. Imagine the wealth of culture we might now share if that had not happened.

When they became a majority,
I did not speak out;
I was not against majority rule.

So... you are for "democracy." If there are more of them than there are of you, and they rule differently than what you want, maybe you will finally understand WHY most of us here understand that our system here in America is BETTER than majority rule.


When they imposed Sharia on me,
there was no one left to speak out.

So... you were no longer in a position to force Christianity on them, and you didn't like it. Hmmm... perhaps if you had been more open and accepting of them in the first place, they wouldn't feel the NEED to force things on you.

The problem is, your first two stanzas speak of a person who is NOT a closed minded bigot, but the second two are about someone who, when he is no longer allowed to RULE through prejudice, whines about it.

Let me re-write yours...

When they came as immigrants,
I welcomed them;
I was for immigration.

When they refused forced assimilation
I applauded them;
I was in favor of diversity.

When "they" became part of "us"
I was delighted;
Now "we" can all work together.

When we could all share our beliefs and cultures
there was no longer a need for us to fight.

Nobody's coming for Communists, social democrats, trade unionists, or Jews. Someone is coming for the non-infidels of the world. Nineteen of them hit us already. Dozens of them almost took out ten more aircraft and thousands more lives. More of them are lurking.

Wake up and face reality. We are at war, right now.

:mp5: Victory is the only option.

OK, there is a "For Dummies" thread that perhaps needs an entry "Poetry for Dummies". You do understand that in time period that the original was written, they WERE coming for Communists, social democrats, trade unionists and Jews... blacklisting them, killing them and their families, bombing their union offices, throwing them into concentration camps, don't you? And a good bit of that was happening here in America, not just in Nazi Germany.

And today, the METAPHOR (look it up) still works.

We ARE at war. It is a very subtle and insidious war that is attempting to undravel the very fabric upon which America was built. Hopefully we will win this war, and protect our country from those people who think we must LOSE freedoms to defend freedom. Which is, as has been noted, just a little bit too much like having sex to protect virginity. 'Cause if we can't, well then, we are f*cked.

I'd probably have to hide myself if my former masjid has my info.

I'm not going to read 42 pages of debate. So, in response to the OP: Yes, absolutely. I'd shelter them, and look for other ways to fight such tyranny.

no, as a punishment for following a racist, sexist, and evil religion.

I would, as I would do with any person that showed up at my door.

If Muslims attack NZ sure, i'd do the same for the Jews in anycase if only the Government did it, Israel and its spies.

I would do it because I have a family. My children need to see that I hold the strength of my convictions, that the concepts of freedom and equality must be maintained by the people--by families, by ordinary citizens.

I may be punished for the act, but my children would that goodness and morality are rarely the easy or the safe road.
Or they could blame you forever, and see your decision as abandoning them in favor of a stranger. They could come to hate the very people you tried to protect.

No good dead goes unpunished.

Or they could blame you forever, and see your decision as abandoning them in favor of a stranger. They could come to hate the very people you tried to protect.

No good dead goes unpunished.

Deed, you fool! Deed! DEED!! :p

Or they could blame you forever, and see your decision as abandoning them in favor of a stranger. They could come to hate the very people you tried to protect.

No good dead goes unpunished.
Well to be perfectly honest only the vapid self centered and shallow would think in such a fashion and were my children the simple minded type so disconnected from thier fellow humans I would the death squads take us all.

I would rather loose everything and have done the right thing.
I leave all that remains to people like you, the stink of selfish cowardice is not for my hands.

I also pity your parents if your parents if your thinking is a product of their rearing.

no, as a punishment for following a racist, sexist, and evil religion.
Are there any that didn't start that way? And who are you to say the fellow at your door hasn't "Seen the light" so to speak, or even that there is a light to be seen? Don't punish the mainstream sane muslims for the sins of the jihadist idiots any more then you should punish the sane Christians for the Phelpsian idiots.

Well to be perfectly honest only the vapid self centered and shallow would think in such a fashion and were my children the simple minded type so disconnected from thier fellow humans I would the death squads take us all.

I would rather loose everything and have done the right thing.
I leave all that remains to people like you, the stink of selfish cowardice is not for my hands.

I also pity your parents if your parents if your thinking is a product of their rearing.

These are the same people who in another time would have slam-dunked the door shut in Anne Frank's face and think nothing of it.

Your courage and convictions are commendable.

Well to be perfectly honest only the vapid self centered and shallow would think in such a fashion and were my children the simple minded type so disconnected from thier fellow humans I would the death squads take us all.

I would rather loose everything and have done the right thing.
I leave all that remains to people like you, the stink of selfish cowardice is not for my hands.

I also pity your parents if your parents if your thinking is a product of their rearing.
hmm... so it's perfectly fine for you to have your kids picked up and sent to jail for sedation. your spouse also arrested and sent to a separate jail while you are also at another jail all for 20 yrs...

where your kids can be re-educated to the government's way of thinking... (think Nazi Youths)

it's fine to harbor a fugitive if your family is in agreement, but it's quite another to make that decision without either 1) telling them and 2) their consent.

and due to the OP's situation, the chances are more likely that you won't have the time to ask them.

Deed, you fool! Deed! DEED!! :p
Fuck!
Well to be perfectly honest only the vapid self centered and shallow would think in such a fashion and were my children the simple minded type so disconnected from thier fellow humans I would the death squads take us all.
Children are all ultimately self-centered and many people carry their childhood resentments with them, whether it is rational to the adult mind to do so or not.

These are the same people who in another time would have slam-dunked the door shut in Anne Frank's face and think nothing of it.
I would cetainly feel guilty about doing something like that, but I have a me to think of.
That book/diary is terribly annoying, by the way.

hmm... so it's perfectly fine for you to have your kids picked up and sent to jail for sedation. your spouse also arrested and sent to a separate jail while you are also at another jail all for 20 yrs...

where your kids can be re-educated to the government's way of thinking... (think Nazi Youths)

it's fine to harbor a fugitive if your family is in agreement, but it's quite another to make that decision without either 1) telling them and 2) their consent.

and due to the OP's situation, the chances are more likely that you won't have the time to ask them.
Um, I am uncetain why my children would be sedated.
I am uncertain where you got the snetence limits from.
I am uncertain how I got caught.
Finally even if you were completely correct, yes it is ok.
Because I am not the spinelss bastard who watches people die in the street when I had every oppurtunity to intercede successfully.
Butthanks for your rant. Good thing for the Jews people like you and New Und werent answering doors in Nazi Germany.

Fuck!

Children are all ultimately self-centered
You obviously have no children of your own.
But please cite reliable sources for this blanket statement, I still maintain it is simply bad parenting tradition of your family that results in your findings.

You scored 45% in your recognition of famous Jewish people!

Your score lets you, and others, know how well you did at recognizing famous Jewish people. I hope you've enjoyed taking this quiz.
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My test tracked 1 variable How you compared to other people your age and gender:

You scored higher than 25% on Jewdar


If you liked my test, send it to your friends!
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Um, I am uncetain why my children would be sedated.my fault, I meant by association... at work so my though processes got fused. :p
I am uncertain where you got the snetence limits from.the OP. Punnishment is 20 yrs.
I am uncertain how I got caught.can't guarentee you won't either. so the possibilitiy is there.
Finally even if you were completely correct, yes it is ok.
Because I am not the spinelss bastard who watches people die in the street when I had every oppurtunity to intercede successfully.as others, including myself, have posted, we will intercede, just not in the way the OP points out. if you read my posts you will know why I would not let any such person into my apartment. but you won't take such factors into account. you only would do it because you want to be seen as a Hero for the people. irriguardless of who else might be affected when you are caught.
But thanks for your rant. Good thing for the Jews people like you and New Und werent answering doors in Nazi Germany.all things being equal. back then, any Jew stupid enough to ask to hide when a the door to the apartment of a member of the Gestapo is not even a foot away from us, the door of one of a Nazi government worker is infront of the only stairs to my floor, a bar where German Officers and Soldiers frequent is next door, and the Nazi party building is across the street with a full unobstructed view of my door, hence, Mr Fugitive and me... the first though is this is a test to look for those in compliance... the next thought is this is an idiot and thus deserves to be shot.

You do the same with your pointless death and needless suffering.
You pave the way for pointless death and needless suffering for the sake of your own hide.

You pave the way for pointless death and needless suffering for the sake of your own hide.I could not possibly stop something like this and neither could you. Why sacrifice yourself pointlessly?

Oh, and Harles, I got 45%, as well.:)

Oh, and Harles, I got 45%, as well.:)
Bah, I got 35%, but then I really don't care if one is Jewish, Muslim, athiest or what.

I could not possibly stop something like this and neither could you. Why sacrifice yourself pointlessly?

Oh, and Harles, I got 45%, as well.:)
You're assuming that getting caught is unavoidable?

Your assuming that getting caught is unavoidable?and most are assuming it's not possible to get caught. hence calling others selfish.

and most are assuming it's not possible to get caught. hence calling others selfish.
Putting yourself at risk to help others should be considered if you say you would go through with hiding someone in your home. I'm not defending people who act like you suggest.

Putting yourself at risk to help others should be considered if you say you would go through with hiding someone in your home. I'm not defending people who act like you suggest.yep. but the fact is some has stated that they won't put their family at risk, but will still help in other ways. yet because of how the question was phrased, such actions is a 'NO' vote.

and what pisses me off is the blanket statements like...
"These are the same people who in another time would have slam-dunked the door shut in Anne Frank's face and think nothing of it." and other such statements.

not realizing that Hiding the person is only one way and that one person cannot hide people alone... not without help from those who cannot/will not hide those people.

and then there are those that consider the danger but will still endanger their family and friends. isn't that also being selfish? putting a stranger's safety over those that rely on that person for protection?

yep. but the fact is some has stated that they won't put their family at risk, but will still help in other ways. yet because of how the question was phrased, such actions is a 'NO' vote.

and what pisses me off is the blanket statements like...
"These are the same people who in another time would have slam-dunked the door shut in Anne Frank's face and think nothing of it."

not realizing that Hiding the person is only one way and that one person cannot hide people alone... not without help from those who cannot/will not hide those people.
I'd do as much as I could, which would probably be much more than what is good for me. If there was a chance, at all, I'd take it.

That said, its understandable that others wouldn't/couldn't do as much for various reasons. To put them under a blanket statement is pointless.

I'd do as much as I could, which would probably be much more than what is good for me. If there was a chance, at all, I'd take it.

That said, its understandable that others wouldn't/couldn't do as much for various reasons. To put them under a blanket statement is pointless.
so would I. I just cannot hide them at my apartment.

You're assuming that getting caught is unavoidable?
I'm saying that any sort of individual resistance is, ultimately, pointless.

I'm saying that any sort of individual resistance is, ultimately, pointless.
the key words, I'm assuming, is Individual Resistance.

the key words, I'm assuming, is Individual Resistance.
Yep. All successful resistances/revolutions/rebellions have one thing in common, charismatic and skilled leaders who, on some level, want power for themselves for whatever reason. It is a rare human being who can rally other human beings to action.

I doubt anyone with those qualifications would be waisting their time on an internet forum. They’re too busy either doing something with orphans and the homeless, making money or getting laid.

I'm saying that any sort of individual resistance is, ultimately, pointless.

The kids in Red Dawn seemed to do OK :p

I'm saying that any sort of individual resistance is, ultimately, pointless.
All revolutions start with individual resistance. The grander stuff happens later.

The kids in Red Dawn seemed to do OK :p
but they wern't Individuals... they acted like a team. Watching out for each other.

All revolutions start with individual resistance. The grander stuff happens later.
I think what Neo U is saying, is that those who act alone, basically the "F*&k you those that won't hide anyone" crowd will be picked up faster than those that rely on others that perform in other fashions. sure alot of Jews were hidden by families... but those families had support and help from others in the community they didn't do it alone.

say we are all in one community... you are hiding some unfortunate Muslims... you would avoid detection with Smunkee helping with food, me telling you what I overhear from my neighbors, and the money others donate than someone who is hiding a Muslim and not getting help or refusing help from others for any percived reason. You can start it off, but it doesn't remain an Individual Resistance effort.

and when a search is planned for your area, I can temporarily house them at my office... and move them back when the coast is clear... teamwork.

Would I hide a HUMAN BEING to save them from possible (and judging from very recent history, PROBABLE or ALMOST CERTAIN) torture? Well let's see...

I'm a human being

I have compassion

...yes I bloody well would.

Hell yes I would hide him. As a matter of fact I would try to invent a way so I could hide lots of them, mostly kids, for example, pregnant women and so forth. I would also try to organize a network of people so we could get them out of the country, give them forged papers and that kind of things.

With that muslim in the hypothetical situation, I would run a background check. Should he/she be someone accused, or very likely a criminal charged with murder or terrorism with proofs, I would hide him/her until I can gather enough evidence by myself, and if he/she looks guilty enough, I would turn him/her to the authorities, but for the rest, of course I would hide him/her, discrimination and persecution are evils that people must fight.

I FUCKING LOVE YOU!

That half baked logic says that black people shouldn't help christians because the KKK supports the eradication or their race, (And the KKK takes everyone one of their teachings straight from the bible). I live in a town with a lot of muslims, and I have a lot of muslim friends. Never to this day have I met a muslim who believes I am an infidel and that they must either convert, banish, or kill me. Your insularity is giving me a headache. Islam is only as stupid as christianity, and those two are only slightly more stupid than the rest. That being said, as stupid as religions are, the world is full of good people, only a minority of asshats (Like yourself) manage to mess it up for the rest of us.

While your at avoiding muslims because they want to smite you, do you want to avoid chinese (Because they are communists, and want to redistribute your wealth), and pilots, (because they fly planes into buildings). Fuckstick.

unlike the chrisitan bible the muslim koran does in fact say that non believers should be killed. its in plain text, it is not open for much transaltion it simply says that they either be converted, banished, or killed.

your logic of comparing that to the KKK is upsurd, KKK is a group, muslim is a group. Arab is a "race" and white is a "race". muslim is not the same as arab and KKK is not the same as White

if your "muslim" friends consider you a non believer they in fact consider you an infidel according to their "religion"

your comparisons that you left on the bottom of the quote i have above my text here are completely idiotic. the compare in such a way that a 12 year old would compare

unlike the chrisitan bible the muslim koran does in fact say that non believers should be killed. its in plain text, it is not open for much transaltion it simply says that they either be converted, banished, or killed.
Can I get a quote of this?

Can I get a quote of this?

i unlike some people on here dont write a bok report on each arguement. i have my sources from a guy that grew up in a muslim enviroment. he is currently not a muslim (he converted to another religion)

if you want to do the search yourself go ahead. you will find it.

I think what Neo K is saying, is that those who act alone, basically the "F*&k you those that won't hide anyone" crowd will be picked up faster than those that rely on others that perform in other fashions. sure alot of Jews were hidden by families... but those families had support and help from others in the community they didn't do it alone.

say we are all in one community... you are hiding some unfortunate Muslims... you would avoid detection with Smunkee helping with food, me telling you what I overhear from my neighbors, and the money others donate than someone who is hiding a Muslim and not getting help or refusing help from others for any percived reason. You can start it off, but it doesn't remain an Individual Resistance effort.

and when a search is planned for your area, I can temporarily house them at my office... and move them back when the coast is clear... teamwork.
That makes sense. I think then, what I am saying, is that I would act with or without a support network. I'd probably be expecting a support network but I wouldn't wait to make sure. Which, of course, could be seen as foolish. But if I'm the only person available at such a time in any sort of position to help and that the people I'm hiding realize themselves what risks are involved, I couldn't live with myself knowing I may have done something and did not.

That makes sense. I think then, what I am saying, is that I would act with or without a support network. I'd probably be expecting a support network but I wouldn't wait to make sure. Which, of course, could be seen as foolish. But if I'm the only person available at such a time in any sort of position to help and that the people I'm hiding realize themselves what risks are involved, I couldn't live with myself knowing I may have done something and did not.
true, again tho, i'm interpreting what Neo K is saying...

and there are other ways of fighting than provind shelter, or armed resistance. ;)

true, again tho, i'm interpreting what Neo K is saying...
Neo K is someone else, a hilarious someone else who I can’t claim credit for.

You’re interpreting me wrong, by the way. What you’re talking about could work for a while, but without the support of someone in a position of significant power, you will ultimately fail.

Neo K is someone else, a hilarious someone else who I can’t claim credit for.

You’re interpreting me wrong, by the way. What you’re talking about could work for a while, but without the support of someone in a position of significant power, you will ultimately fail.
yep.. made that correction... too tired..... zzzzzz :D


which is why, when combined with my other post about working the system from the inside... ;)

i unlike some people on here dont write a bok report on each arguement. i have my sources from a guy that grew up in a muslim enviroment. he is currently not a muslim (he converted to another religion)

if you want to do the search yourself go ahead. you will find it.

You don't have to write a thesis on it, but actually reading the book for yourself might help. Also try reading these passages you point out in the context of seventh century Arabia, in which many separate tribes were fighting for dominance (Muslims being a small minority at the time). The 21st century world is very different from seventh century Arabia in this respect.

I could find passages in there that also condemn the killing of non-combatants, the weak, elderly and children. If you really care, that is.

You know, I've managed to reread this thread title twice.
Once as "Would You Ride A Muslim" and another time as "Would You Do A Muslim."

You know, I've managed to reread this thread title twice.
Once as "Would You Ride A Muslim" and another time as "Would You Do A Muslim."
I can answer those as well. Is she a hot Muslim? Then yes, I'd do and/or ride a Muslim.

It's threads like this that really bring into focus how much I HATE you DK. crawl in a hole and do the world a favor.

Jackass.

It's threads like this that really bring into focus how much I HATE you DK. crawl in a hole and do the world a favor.

Jackass.
Take heart. These are the kinds of threads that show how deep his racism runs, and how he's so afraid that he welcomes a police state, because he believes he'll be one of the police in it.

You know, I've managed to reread this thread title twice.
Once as "Would You Ride A Muslim" and another time as "Would You Do A Muslim."

Most people on NSG would indeed get a kick out doing Muslims. With a pistol to the head.

Most people on NSG would indeed get a kick out doing Muslims. With a pistol to the head.
She's got a pistol? How hot is THAT? TYhat's better then a whip. ;) :p

Take heart. These are the kinds of threads that show how deep his racism runs, and how he's so afraid that he welcomes a police state, because he believes he'll be one of the police in it.
Or maybe he just understands that having people inside of us whose loyalties lie elsewhere puts our nation in mortal peril, internally.

Voted No. I don't think I would.

In three years, I'll probably be living in a college dorm, which is probably not the best place to hide someone from the government. So probably no, but if I was living somewhere where I thought I could hide someone, then yes, for sure.

i unlike some people on here dont write a bok report on each arguement. i have my sources from a guy that grew up in a muslim enviroment. he is currently not a muslim (he converted to another religion)

if you want to do the search yourself go ahead. you will find it.

Put up or shut up, where's the quote?

Yes. The odds of that person being a terrorist are minute at best. It would be much like the resistance in Germany that took Jews into their homes and kept them hidden for years - brave people.

*points at Skinny87* What he said.

Or maybe he just understands that having people inside of us whose loyalties lie elsewhere puts our nation in mortal peril, internally.


I am not sure if you are talking about cannibalism or pregnancy here... do the "people inside of us" start there, or end up there?

I am not sure if you are talking about cannibalism or pregnancy here... do the "people inside of us" start there, or end up there?
Yes, in a thread about internal-national security, I would post about cannibals and preggos. :rolleyes:

Well done, Botwsavia, well done.

I'd give the guy money for a ticket to the nearest good country, and fake papers if I knew someone who could provide them.
But I wouldn't let him in. Too dangerous.

unlike the chrisitan bible the muslim koran does in fact say that non believers should be killed. its in plain text, it is not open for much transaltion it simply says that they either be converted, banished, or killed.

your logic of comparing that to the KKK is upsurd, KKK is a group, muslim is a group. Arab is a "race" and white is a "race". muslim is not the same as arab and KKK is not the same as White

if your "muslim" friends consider you a non believer they in fact consider you an infidel according to their "religion"

your comparisons that you left on the bottom of the quote i have above my text here are completely idiotic. the compare in such a way that a 12 year old would compare
Well, Iam Christian and i just happen to have MY copy of the Koran sitting here in front of me so please tell me where it says that.
The versus quoted by the other racist fuck are complete rewrites only websites have that dribble on them and none of them agree on which lie to tell.
So please direct towards the order to murder.

You know, Skib', this is the first time I've had a self-stated Conservative Christian take the words right out of my mouth. Bravo.

You know, Skib', this is the first time I've had a self-stated Conservative Christian take the words right out of my mouth. Bravo.
He never said he was conservitive did he?

Oh, yes he did. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11568847#post11568847) If I can read correctly, that is. ;)

Oh, yes he did. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11568847#post11568847) If I can read correctly, that is. ;)
oh... ok Nevermind. *Wanders off*

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Honestly it is a good thing i wasn't a NAZI, 'cause 55% percent of people would have 'needlessly' died and then i'd still 'have' to get the ones i missed.

In response to the very first post, I wouldn't care if it was death by firing squad, let alone 20 years in prison, I would still shelter someone in need.

Oooh, tricky question.

Personally, I'd do it, but I live under my parents roof still (during the summer), and so the decision would be up to the entire family, not just me. My parents are, like me, very liberal people, so I think they'd probably help someone.

Obviously, I'd be a bit more cautious about a stranger than about a friend, just because I don't know them and it could be a trap. But if the person seemed to check out, then yes, I would hide them. However, I'd prefer to help them get out of the country rather than stay at my place indefinitely. This would not be too hard, considering how close I live to a port.


I often feel that principles are worth nothing if you don't stand by them.

While most people are calling this DK's Wet Dream, I do have a question and in searching this tread, I cannot find any reference that would satifactorily answer this question.

Relocation Camp. there are three types of these camps in our history. and each time is far different than the other.

Interrment camp:
The nicest of these camps. used by America to seperate citizens of Japanese Ancestory from the general public. back then it was to prevent any more espionage, as well as insure the saftey of American Citizens from harm. (it can be argued that because of such camps, those outside could focus their fear/anger/hate on the Nation of Japan, instead of those who choose to live in the US. but that is another argument.)

Modern Interrment camp:
The modern equivalent of this type of camp would be more of a Gated Community. granted Mail/Phone/Email communication would be monitored, but those housed inside would be given almost all the amenities they have on the outside. Instead of barracks, each family could have their own cabin. Running water/electricity would be available. while camera will still be watching them, they would be situated outside, not within their "homes". Guards would be a tolken force. they would have access to newspapers, a library that they can control, even movies where they have the right to say what will be shown and what won't be. those that are homeless would be given homes as well as food. bascially, a seperate, temporary town.

For the sake of argument, those who are put in there, after several months, have pretty even reactions. from Loving the environment, to hating it. no clear majority.

Cons:
It's still an Interrment camp. seperating citizens won't build trust. and no matter the amenities, it's still a prison.

Pros:
Some, maybe most, might see this as a good thing, they are able to live according to their religious laws without the flack of "non believers" they can enjoy the fellowship of those worshipping the same religion. infact, those who do like the camp are even petitioning the government to allow them to turn it into a true town/city.


Nazi Concentration Camps:
The other side of the spectrum... these are death camps. pure and simple. you get sent there, you are worked untill you become useless and then you are killed.

Modern Equivalent:
those inside are interrorgated, then used for testing. either weapon, or medicine, it doesn't matter. people inside face death.

Cons:
hiding such a camp from the public would be impossible, unless the Government already has a tight leash on the media. (remember, this may not be America.) and when word gets out about such camps, there will be no mercy for the government involved.

Pro:
A wet dream for all those "the Only Good Muslim is a Dead Muslim" crowd. (Sry, had to think of something)

Gitmo:
The third type of camp. No explination, pro/con needed.

everyone on this thread, so far, is assuming Nazi Death Camp or Gitmo. My question is Which camp is your hypothetical situating referring to DK?

NOTE: I know this won't change everyone's answers, but realize that each camp had 1) a different Purpose, 2) different philosophies behind them 3) treated those inside differently than the other camps mentioned and 4) was born from different situations.

You should add exile as a fifth option. I remember New Mitanni saying that he would send me to some part of the Middle East, presumably after it had been sealed off from the rest of the world.

You should add exile as a fifth option. I remember New Mitanni saying that he would send me to some part of the Middle East, presumably after it had been sealed off from the rest of the world.
yeah, that is an option, but I'm trying to stick to DK's original. which was relocation to a isolated camp.

Yes, of course. Just as I would hide a jew during the holocaust. Thats basically what it comes down to, would you help stop prejudice and genocide, and I would.

Depends on where in jail you'll go. If you're caught and they send you off to county jail for homocidal serial killers, then -_-

But if it's a jail for people who did it like you, it wouldn't be that bad. Just avoid the beatings from the guards.

But if a Muslims came to my door and said these words:

"I have 360."

I'd be like "Fuck yeah, come on in."

Hypothetical situation:

It's about three years from now, and after a few more major attacks by militant Islamic terrorists on Western nations (killing more than a few thousand each time), some Western nations (the one you live in perhaps) are finally fed up with it, and in desperation for a solution that will placate the angry electorate (which you may not be a part of, since you may not be angry at all), they announce the registration and roundup of all Muslims in the country. From there, they will be sent to camps in a remote area of your country for "the duration of the conflict".

They also announce penalties for anyone hiding a "registered person" from lawful authorities - 20 years in prison.

About three months into the roundup, a Muslim appears at your door. You don't know who he is. He's asking you to hide him in your house for "the duration".

Would you hide him for "the duration", however long that might be?

I do not know, but I believe it is the right thing to do

Honestly it is a good thing i wasn't a NAZI, 'cause 55% percent of people would have 'needlessly' died and then i'd still 'have' to get the ones i missed.


You scored higher than 99% on Jewdar.

It depends. If the Muslim was good at chess, then I would definitely hide them. After all, we could pass the time discussing chess moves or sipping on Bacardi.

And also, not all Muslims are terrorists.

And also, not all Muslims are terrorists.

That's not the question, and that assertion is not being made here.

Read the entire thread. You don't know the person at the door - a complete stranger, who says they are a Muslim. And the government is rounding them up.

What do you do (heck, you don't even know if he can play chess)?

That's not the question, and that assertion is not being made here.

Read the entire thread. You don't know the person at the door - a complete stranger, who says they are a Muslim. And the government is rounding them up.

What do you do (heck, you don't even know if he can play chess)?

I read the original post (yours), and I did say if they could play chess. :p

If the government is rounding up people based on their religion or ethnic background, then they are more corrupt than they people they are fighting. Of course I would hide this person from the government. If I was "caught", I would flee the country. Hell, I might leave before the Muslim even shows up after learning of that law.

And, one question. Do you really think that I would read almost 700 replies? Yeah, right! :rolleyes:

You should add exile as a fifth option. I remember New Mitanni saying that he would send me to some part of the Middle East, presumably after it had been sealed off from the rest of the world.


It's so nice to be remembered :D

However, I didn't limit destinations to the Middle East only, but to any territory overrun by Muslims. So you can also choose from Indonesia (except Bali), the Comoros and the Maldives (at least until the last sinks below sea level).

It's so nice to be remembered :D

However, I didn't limit destinations to the Middle East only, but to any territory overrun by Muslims. So you can also choose from Indonesia (except Bali), the Comoros and the Maldives (at least until the last sinks below sea level).

The Jews were being deported and there was a plan to dump them all in Madagascar until it all became impractical. Then came the showers. Are you going to be one of the first pushing the Muslims into the stalls?

nish nish.

The Jews were being deported and there was a plan to dump them all in Madagascar until it all became impractical. Then came the showers. Are you going to be one of the first pushing the Muslims into the stalls?

See the first sentence of the last paragraph of the following post:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11575913&postcount=67

See the first sentence of the last paragraph of the following post:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11575913&postcount=67


You mean "I take all questions seriously, unless they're from posters like Gauthier"? You could be more specific.
edit: I see that you were responding to Gauthier. SO CLEVER.

It's so nice to be remembered

However, I didn't limit destinations to the Middle East only, but to any territory overrun by Muslims. So you can also choose from Indonesia (except Bali), the Comoros and the Maldives (at least until the last sinks below sea level).


Think nothing of it :)

I've always wanted to see the Maldives! Now I guess I have an excuse to go. You're so considerate.

See the first sentence of the last paragraph of the following post:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11575913&postcount=67

In other words, "Yes, New Mitanni will shove the Muslims into the Zyclon-B shower stalls, and have a good time with Deep Kimchi in doing so."