NationStates Jolt Archive

Hypothetical situation:

It's about three years from now, and after a few more major attacks by militant Islamic terrorists on Western nations (killing more than a few thousand each time), some Western nations (the one you live in perhaps) are finally fed up with it, and in desperation for a solution that will placate the angry electorate (which you may not be a part of, since you may not be angry at all), they announce the registration and roundup of all Muslims in the country. From there, they will be sent to camps in a remote area of your country for "the duration of the conflict".

They also announce penalties for anyone hiding a "registered person" from lawful authorities - 20 years in prison.

About three months into the roundup, a Muslim appears at your door. You don't know who he is. He's asking you to hide him in your house for "the duration".

Would you hide him for "the duration", however long that might be?

Yes. The odds of that person being a terrorist are minute at best. It would be much like the resistance in Germany that took Jews into their homes and kept them hidden for years - brave people.

yes

Yes.

I hid people from unjust laws before, and I'd do it again.

So I'm guessing DK voted 'No'? This doesn't surprise me.

The real question is, how can you tell if someone's a Muslim? As far as I remember, being a Muslim constitues following Islam, not being a member of a specific ethnic group. So consider that the odds are pretty good they wouldn't catch all the Muslims anyways.

Or did you mean Arab?

On the condition of Conversion.

So I'm guessing DK voted 'No'? This doesn't surprise me.

Considering that he came up with that horrifying scenario, it wouldn't surprise me either...

On the condition of Conversion.

"Sure I'll gide you from being captured, imprisoned and tortured. You just haver to change your whole way of life..."

Hypothetical situation:

It's about three years from now, and after a few more major attacks by militant Islamic terrorists on Western nations (killing more than a few thousand each time), some Western nations (the one you live in perhaps) are finally fed up with it, and in desperation for a solution that will placate the angry electorate (which you may not be a part of, since you may not be angry at all), they announce the registration and roundup of all Muslims in the country. From there, they will be sent to camps in a remote area of your country for "the duration of the conflict".

They also announce penalties for anyone hiding a "registered person" from lawful authorities - 20 years in prison.

About three months into the roundup, a Muslim appears at your door. You don't know who he is. He's asking you to hide him in your house for "the duration".

Would you hide him for "the duration", however long that might be?

V for Vendetta-all Muslims in England were killed.

Of course I would hide a muslim. However I am not sure if I was living with my family I would ask them to do the same. If I didn't know who he/she was I really don't know, if there was someway of proving they weren't part of a government force to catch you out. Then yes.

On the condition of Conversion.

That would be pretty pointless, wouldn't it?

That would be pretty pointless, wouldn't it?

You consider saving a life pointless?

The real question is, how can you tell if someone's a Muslim? As far as I remember, being a Muslim constitues following Islam, not being a member of a specific ethnic group. So consider that the odds are pretty good they wouldn't catch all the Muslims anyways.

Or did you mean Arab?

That's up to the government. He's standing at the door.

The real question is, how can you tell if someone's a Muslim? As far as I remember, being a Muslim constitues following Islam, not being a member of a specific ethnic group. So consider that the odds are pretty good they wouldn't catch all the Muslims anyways.

Or did you mean Arab?

Perhaps Deep Kimchi's scenario exists in a world where US technology has developed so that all God-fearing Americans will be able to instantly reveal someone's religion.

Considering that he came up with that horrifying scenario, it wouldn't surprise me either...

How many people in the UK do you believe would hide one, on penalty of 20 years in prison?

I haven't found any in the office here yet who would.

You consider saving a life pointless?

The given scenario states that all Muslims would be shipped of to camps. If he converted, he wouldn't be a Muslim any more, and therefore wouldn't require any assistance from your part at all.

"Sure I'll gide you from being captured, imprisoned and tortured. You just haver to change your whole way of life..."
But according to DK's OP, he/she would would not be registered etc....

edit: drats, beaton to it:( though it would be the best option, I think;)

The given scenario states that all Muslims would be shipped of to camps. If he converted, he wouldn't be a Muslim any more, and therefore wouldn't require any assistance from your part at all.

The government is saying "once a Muslim, always a Muslim".

And this guy at the door isn't interested in conversion.

The given scenario states that all Muslims would be shipped of to camps. If he converted, he wouldn't be a Muslim any more, and therefore wouldn't require any assistance from your part at all.

Please tell that to Edith Steiner.

That's up to the government. He's standing at the door.

Well, I'd have to say I'd offer to get him to a country where these acts are not happening (probably Canada. Canada's always good, and since I live in NY...)

I might offer to hide him, depending on if I had a family living with me at that time.

How many people in the UK do you believe would hide one, on penalty of 20 years in prison?

I haven't found any in the office here yet who would.

No idea about the UK, my mother hid some refugees from Romania for 9 months at home when they were in danger of being sent back to their country without justification by the German authorities.
I think the maximum penalty at the time would have been 6 month prison or so... *shrugs

Well, I'd have to say I'd offer to get him to a country where these acts are not happening (probably Canada. Canada's always good, and since I live in NY...)

I might offer to hide him, depending on if I had a family living with me at that time.

So you would risk yourself alone, but not necessarily your family?

On the condition of Conversion.

Well, if he converted, then he would no longer be a Muslim, and therefore not a 'registered person' in this scenario. He would then no longer need your help.

So, you are saying you wouldn't hide a Muslim.

EDIT: I should preview my posts so that I don't sound like a redundant, tautological, repetitive parrot.

Please tell that to Edith Steiner.

DK was talking about religion, not "race" as the Nazis did.

The government is saying "once a Muslim, always a Muslim".

And this guy at the door isn't interested in conversion.

I don't care about his religion. I would find this legislation appaling and against Human Rights. I would hide him.

No. The turning point in the clash of cultures would come upon the roundup of muslims. Sad but true.

Hell yes I would hide him. As a matter of fact I would try to invent a way so I could hide lots of them, mostly kids, for example, pregnant women and so forth. I would also try to organize a network of people so we could get them out of the country, give them forged papers and that kind of things.

With that muslim in the hypothetical situation, I would run a background check. Should he/she be someone accused, or very likely a criminal charged with murder or terrorism with proofs, I would hide him/her until I can gather enough evidence by myself, and if he/she looks guilty enough, I would turn him/her to the authorities, but for the rest, of course I would hide him/her, discrimination and persecution are evils that people must fight.

No idea about the UK, my mother hid some refugees from Romania for 9 months at home when they were in danger of being sent back to their country without justification by the German authorities.
I think the maximum penalty at the time would have been 6 month prison or so... *shrugs

Then again, there isn't exactly a general air of hostility against Romanians, is there?

Would it have been different if the general populace (aside from you and your family) were suspicious and hateful towards Romanians, and couldn't wait to find one?

How many people in the UK do you believe would hide one, on penalty of 20 years in prison?

I haven't found any in the office here yet who would.

And what about you, then? Would the man who advocated genocide of the Muslim faith hide a Muslim in danger?

No. The turning point in the clash of cultures would come upon the roundup of muslims. Sad but true.

You would turn away a human being, quite probably who has done nothing wrong, just because of their religion?

DK was talking about religion, not "race" as the Nazis did.

A Governent that goes so far as to order 'the whole lot' to Boncentration Bamps will also go so far as to use a very inclusionist definition of Muslim.

In fact, I'd bet a fair amount of money that the likes of me would ( in this scenario ) be counted as muslim based on skincolour.

Then again, there isn't exactly a general air of hostility against Romanians, is there?

Would it have been different if the general populace (aside from you and your family) were suspicious and hateful towards Romanians, and couldn't wait to find one?

We're talking about Germany in the early 90s here... a time when asylum seekers were at constant risk to be burnt in their homes or to be beaten up in the streets. There was a definite air of hostility against them.

Then again, there isn't exactly a general air of hostility against Romanians, is there?

Would it have been different if the general populace (aside from you and your family) were suspicious and hateful towards Romanians, and couldn't wait to find one?

I like how this scenario is getting more and more involved. Explain how the government deals with Muslims in their armed forces and police forces.

So you would risk yourself alone, but not necessarily your family?


Unless my family agreed to it I wouldn't risk them. I also have a little sister, I wouldn't deprive her of her parents because I wanted to do something even if it meant saving someone elses life. I would risk it myself.

And what about you, then? Would the man who advocated genocide of the Muslim faith hide a Muslim in danger?

It depends. I have Muslim friends.

I proposed the genocide as a possible technical solution, and one that I believe the West will come to if forced to it by events.

We may not be able to avoid coming to that conclusion.

If you think that's impossible, think again. The West spent over a trillion dollars during the Cold War on massive nuclear arsenals, with the intent of being able to commit genocide on an unheard of scale in just 20 minutes - if pushed to it.

Hypothetical situation:

It's about three years from now, and after a few more major attacks by militant Islamic terrorists on Western nations (killing more than a few thousand each time), some Western nations (the one you live in perhaps) are finally fed up with it, and in desperation for a solution that will placate the angry electorate (which you may not be a part of, since you may not be angry at all), they announce the registration and roundup of all Muslims in the country. From there, they will be sent to camps in a remote area of your country for "the duration of the conflict".

They also announce penalties for anyone hiding a "registered person" from lawful authorities - 20 years in prison.

About three months into the roundup, a Muslim appears at your door. You don't know who he is. He's asking you to hide him in your house for "the duration".

Would you hide him for "the duration", however long that might be?
No. But, to be fair, I wouldn't hide a Christian, Jew, Hindu, or any other such person in the same situation. It's got nothing to do with the Muslim-ness of the individual.

A Governent that goes so far as to order 'the whole lot' to Boncentration Bamps will also go so far as to use a very inclusionist definition of Muslim.

In fact, I'd bet a fair amount of money that the likes of me would ( in this scenario ) be counted as muslim based on skincolour.

So, how would his conversion change anything? And conversion to what, btw?

Yes.

I like how this scenario is getting more and more involved. Explain how the government deals with Muslims in their armed forces and police forces.
They've already been rounded up in the first few days. Also, this is a gradual slide, rather like the fading days of Weimar.

The question itself remains unchanged.

Would you, on threat of a massive deprivation of your liberty, hide someone that the government wanted to imprison without charge for what is essentially "in perpetuity"?

So, how would his conversion change anything? And conversion to what, btw?


Bogmarshim.

No. But, to be fair, I wouldn't hide a Christian, Jew, Hindu, or any other such person in the same situation. It's got nothing to do with the Muslim-ness of the individual.

Eh? How come? You've always seemed to be such a reasonable person, Bottle. Why wouldn't you help a person on the run from such a fascist&racist regime?

I wouldn't risk hiding a random stranger who turned up on my doorstep. I would however take in somebody I already knew and considered a friend, if they were in that much danger.

Eh? How come? You've always seemed to be such a reasonable person, Bottle. Why wouldn't you help a person on the run from such a fascist&racist regime?
Never said I wouldn't help them run. Just that I wouldn't hide them in my home.

Eh? How come? You've always seemed to be such a reasonable person, Bottle. Why wouldn't you help a person on the run from such a fascist&racist regime?
She could be "rather apolitical", or have something to lose.

Like children or family.

Never said I wouldn't help them run. Just that I wouldn't hide them in my home.

Ahhhh, I see.

Bogmarshim.
Well then we're all godless heathens.

I wouldn't care if he were Muslim, Christian, Atheist, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or Jedi, black, white, green, purple or striped, male, female, or transgendered.

I am not letting a stranger into my house. Period. While indeed he might be completely blameless, there is the chance that he may be involved with the persons the government says he is -- or that he may be innocent of political/terror crimes but be your garden variety thief, rapist, or murderer.

It depends. I have Muslim friends.

I proposed the genocide as a possible technical solution, and one that I believe the West will come to if forced to it by events.

We may not be able to avoid coming to that conclusion.

If you think that's impossible, think again. The West spent over a trillion dollars during the Cold War on massive nuclear arsenals, with the intent of being able to commit genocide on an unheard of scale in just 20 minutes - if pushed to it.

This scenario is as realistic and morally appaling as your OP.

So, how would his conversion change anything? And conversion to what, btw?

I don't think we owe muslims ( religious definition ) much in the way of favours.

Meanwhile, I'd have no qualms whatsoever about hiding a Jew.
*shrug* and I would not mind hiding a Born Again Christian either.

I wouldn't care if he were Muslim, Christian, Atheist, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or Jedi, black, white, green, purple or striped, male, female, or transgendered.

I am not letting a stranger into my house. Period. While indeed he might be completely blameless, there is the chance that he may be involved with the persons the government says he is -- or that he may be innocent of political/terror crimes but be your garden variety thief, rapist, or murderer.

:eek:


I must have lived a very sheltered life so far...

I guess the holocaust is only bad when it targets jews.

You would turn away a human being, quite probably who has done nothing wrong, just because of their religion?

Yep. Besides, it's just detainment. If he hasn't done anything wrong, he can go home when we've won the war.

:eek:


I must have lived a very sheltered life so far...


Ever lived in a country or state where the Police warns you NEVER EVER let anyone you don't know enter you car, AND backs it up with statistics showing that in something like 50% of all cases in which you do, you end up either dead, robbed, raped, or all of the above?

The world is a nasty place.

She could be "rather apolitical", or have something to lose.

Like children or family.
It's mainly a matter of pragmatism. I have a very small apartment with no hiding spaces, I lack the income to feed a guest for more than a couple of months, and it is extremely likely that I will be moving frequently over the next 5-10 years. If I wanted to help somebody who was fleeing for their life, I wouldn't be doing them a favor by locking them in my broom closet.

But, more importantly, this individual is a stranger to me. And I'm not fucking stupid. No stranger is staying in my home simply because he claims to be a Muslim who is fleeing persecution. I'll offer to help him in other ways, if he doesn't set off my shady-meter, but fucked if I'm going to let in some yahoo who may just be there to rip off my TV.

This scenario is as realistic and morally appaling as your OP.

So, you're saying the Cold War never happened, and we never built massive nuclear arsenals, and we never hired people like Curtis LeMay to head the US Strategic Air Command, and we never had the Cuban Missile Crisis, and we never stationed nuclear weapons in Europe to make the warning time drop to a few minutes if we fired, and we never intended to kill anyone with those thousands of nuclear weapons.....

Riiiiiiiight....

So, when he's at my door, how do I know he's a Muslim?

Well then we're all godless heathens.
I think Bogmarsh would like that!! :D

I guess the holocaust is only bad when it targets jews.
What happened to the Japanese in the US during WW II was not a holocaust. Reprehensible, perhaps, but not a holocaust.

So, when he's at my door, how do I know he's a Muslim?

Give him a bacon stottie - or show him a danish cartoon.

So, when he's at my door, how do I know he's a Muslim?
He says he is.

For all you know, he could be a government agent pretending to be a Muslim (if you're into conspiracy theories, or don't trust the government at this point), or he may very well be a Muslim.

You have no way to verify it.

I don't think we owe muslims ( religious definition ) much in the way of favours.

Meanwhile, I'd have no qualms whatsoever about hiding a Jew.
*shrug* and I would not mind hiding a Born Again Christian either.

I don't owe anything to any religion. On the contrary, Christianity owes me a childhood.

But I owe it to myself not to let a corrupt, racist government get away with measures like that. And I wouldn't just stop at hiding him, either. I'd participate in any form of resistance.

my neighbors are muslim, I would hide her and the kids but not him, he would just piss me off too much.

If however the random person came to my door? probably not, regardless of race, creed, religion, or age. I don't think it's wise to let strangers around my kids, and someone living in my house would have way too much "access".

I wouldn't hide anyone in my house screw whatever horrible fate they await if I let the stranger in I’m risking the lives of myself and those around me (not just in the sense that they could kill me and steal my NSG identity!)

Though I wish I had voted bananas:(

So, you're saying the Cold War never happened, and we never built massive nuclear arsenals, and we never hired people like Curtis LeMay to head the US Strategic Air Command, and we never had the Cuban Missile Crisis, and we never stationed nuclear weapons in Europe to make the warning time drop to a few minutes if we fired, and we never intended to kill anyone with those thousands of nuclear weapons.....

Riiiiiiiight....

Yes. That is exactly what I am saying. Because I found that your idea was morally repugnant, and technically unfeasible (how do you expect to target nuclear devices so that they only kill Muslims?), it logically follows that I don't believe the Cold War existed. Deep Kimchi, the two ideas are unrelated.

So, when he's at my door, how do I know he's a Muslim?

He's probably got a yellow crescent sown to his clothes...

I'd probably keep him/her in my garage but I wouldn't let them in my house as you never know who they really are.

I'd be surprised if as much as half the people who said they would hide a muslim would genuinely do so if push came to shove.

I don't owe anything to any religion. On the contrary, Christianity owes me a childhood.

But I owe it to myself not to let a corrupt, racist government get away with measures like that. And I wouldn't just stop at hiding him, either. I'd participate in any form of resistance.


You didn't ask you, you did ask me.
So stating your own persuasions is pointless - or mere rhetoric.

Authority exists - and must be obeyed - unless it be imperative to pull a Stauffenberg, and take over all Authority yourself.

Yes. That is exactly what I am saying. Because I found that your idea was morally repugnant, and technically unfeasible (how do you expect to target nuclear devices so that they only kill Muslims?), it logically follows that I don't believe the Cold War existed. Deep Kimchi, the two ideas are unrelated.

You're saying that a nation such as Iran could not be the target of nuclear weapons?

Or that Western nations could not spend trillions of dollars on the idea of genocide?

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/experience/the.bomb/atomic.audit/

Really?

They are related. We've spent the money before, and organized whole arsenals to the idea. We didn't even care if everyone in the impact area was a Communist or not - we didn't even care if the fallout killed people in other nations not involved in the conflict.

I'm not discussing the morality of the Cold War, or the morality of rounding up Muslims. I'm discussing what you would do as an individual.

:eek:


I must have lived a very sheltered life so far...

I suppose so.

I'd be surprised if as much as half the people who said they would hide a muslim would genuinely do so if push came to shove.

How many people would actually hide a jew around 1943?
Can't have been much over 1%.

So much for protestations that one actually would do it.

I'd be surprised if as much as half the people who said they would hide a muslim would genuinely do so if push came to shove.
I suppose it depends on whether or not the general atmosphere among neighbors was "hate Muslims" or "hate the government". And how effective the police were at finding people, and how many people made a habit of turning in their friends and neighbors.

Authority exists - and must be obeyed - unless it be imperative to pull a Stauffenberg, and take over all Authority yourself.

No. Authority exists and must be questioned.

He's probably got a yellow crescent sown to his clothes...

I'd assume it would be green. Or black.

No. Authority exists and must be questioned.

So you'd question Hitler?
That does not seem very effective, one way or the other.
Ditto for Staling.


Flee or fight.
Obey or destroy.

No wishy-washy inbetweens.

On the condition of Conversion.
Coerced conversion isn't a real conversion. He would be as Muslim as ever in his mind.

How many people in the UK do you believe would hide one, on penalty of 20 years in prison?
Didn't Nazis execute someone who hid Jews?

No. The turning point in the clash of cultures would come upon the roundup of muslims. Sad but true.
The "clash of cultures/civilisations" is only real in the minds of the terrorists. I'd rather not think like them.

Then again, there isn't exactly a general air of hostility against Romanians, is there?
In some places there is!

It depends. I have Muslim friends.

I proposed the genocide as a possible technical solution, and one that I believe the West will come to if forced to it by events.

DK, this is never going to happen. All-out war and blitzkrieg from fascists in Europe and Japan didn't prompt us to kill every German and Japanese.

A few terrorist attacks certainly won't.

No. But, to be fair, I wouldn't hide a Christian, Jew, Hindu, or any other such person in the same situation. It's got nothing to do with the Muslim-ness of the individual.
I never thought you would be one to support radical discriminatory legislation.

I suppose discrimination which attacks a religion is good?

I don't think we owe muslims ( religious definition ) much in the way of favours.

Meanwhile, I'd have no qualms whatsoever about hiding a Jew.
*shrug* and I would not mind hiding a Born Again Christian either.
What's the difference? The Muslim is marginally more likely to be a terrorist, but why the Jew, and even more mysteriously, why the Born again Christian? (do you think born-agains are better than other Christians?)

So, you're saying the Cold War never happened, and we never built massive nuclear arsenals, and we never hired people like Curtis LeMay to head the US Strategic Air Command, and we never had the Cuban Missile Crisis, and we never stationed nuclear weapons in Europe to make the warning time drop to a few minutes if we fired, and we never intended to kill anyone with those thousands of nuclear weapons.....

The US, UK and France never intended to use their nukes. They used them to frighten other people out of attacking them. Maybe you've heard of MAD?

I never thought you would be one to support radical discriminatory legislation.

I suppose discrimination which attacks a religion is good?

:rolleyes:

Yes, because I wouldn't let a strange man come live in my house at the drop of a hat, that must mean that I hate religious people so much that I want my government to herd them into camps.

Chill the fuck out.

and after a few more major attacks by militant Islamic terrorists on Western nations (killing more than a few thousand each time),

No way. I'm already prejudiced against Islam, and after a few more attacks I'd probably think of Muslims the way Nazis thought of Jews. If the guy seemed decent (non-extremist and not very devout) I might hand him a few dollars and tell him to sneak across the Mexican border or stow away on a freight ship bound for someplace else, but there would be no way I'd hide him under those conditions. He'd be lucky if I don't suspect he's an extremist, beat the hell out of him and drag him to a police station.

Maybe I'm not a great guy. Maybe I'm not a good American, but at least I'm honest.

The US, UK and France never intended to use their nukes. They used them to frighten other people out of attacking them. Maybe you've heard of MAD?
Really?

I suppose that's why this guy was in charge of a major part of the US nuclear arsenal for some time, and held drills up to the edge of Soviet airspace, and flew bombers over Soviet cities to goad them into doing something.

Here are some of his quotes:

Every soldier thinks something of the moral aspects of what he is doing. But all war is immoral and if you let that bother you, you're not a good soldier.
Curtis E. Lemay

I don't mind being called tough since I find in this racket it's the tough guys who lead the survivors.
Curtis E. Lemay

I think there are many times when it would be most efficient to use nuclear weapons. However, the public opinion in this country and throughout the world throw up their hands in horror when you mention nuclear weapons, just because of the propaganda that's been fed to them.
Curtis E. Lemay

I'd like to see a more aggressive attitude on the part of the United States. That doesn't mean launching an immediate preventive war.
Curtis E. Lemay

If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting.
Curtis E. Lemay

Killing Japanese didn't bother me very much at that time... I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal.
Curtis E. Lemay

My solution to the problem would be to tell the North Vietnamese Communists frankly that they've got to drawn in their horns and stop their aggression or we're going to bomb them into the stone age.
Curtis E. Lemay

Native analysts may look sadly back from the future on that period when we had the atomic bomb and the Russians didn't.
Curtis E. Lemay

Sometime in the future - 25, 50, 75 years hence - what will the situation be like then? By that time the Chinese will have the capability of delivery too.
Curtis E. Lemay

That was the era when we might have destroyed Russia completely and not even skinned our elbows doing it.
Curtis E. Lemay

That's the reason some schools of thinking don't rule out a destruction of the Chinese military potential before the situation grows worse than it is today. It's bad enough now.
Curtis E. Lemay

We should bomb Vietnam back into the stone age.
Curtis E. Lemay

How many people would actually hide a jew around 1943?
Can't have been much over 1%.

So much for protestations that one actually would do it.
It's like whenever anyone asks the question "In Nazi Germany, which role would you play?", everyone says "The resistance". It's always easy to say you'll be some brave freedom fighter who'll out yourself on the line, but there are very few people who would actually do it.

I suppose it depends on whether or not the general atmosphere among neighbors was "hate Muslims" or "hate the government". And how effective the police were at finding people, and how many people made a habit of turning in their friends and neighbors.
Even if the popular sentiment was "hate the government" I still think it would be only a tiny number of people who actually would hide them.

He says he is.

For all you know, he could be a government agent pretending to be a Muslim (if you're into conspiracy theories, or don't trust the government at this point), or he may very well be a Muslim.

You have no way to verify it.

Then I'd have to go with the person who posted that they would do it if they lived alone, and had no close family or friends. Mind you, if this scenario were to develop in Canada, I would long ago have fled to another country for my own safety. I have no liking for police states.

Yes, because the laws you have outlined, are completely contrary to the most fundamental tenets of a democratic society (freedom of religion, freedom of association, etc).

I don't coerce him.
*shrug* Not my problem.

The "clash of cultures/civilisations" is only real in the minds of the terrorists. I'd rather not think like them.
Real to me as well. I don't do much fraternising with the opposition.

What's the difference? The Muslim is marginally more likely to be a terrorist, but why the Jew, and even more mysteriously, why the Born again Christian? (do you think born-agains are better than other Christians?)
See: 'I don't do fraternisation'. Otherwise, I'm merely making a point.
Your main-stream literalist muslim is not someone who I do a favour.
Oh, I may very well protect a muslim refusenik ( by definition no literalist ) - but it ends about there.

No. Authority exists and must be questioned.

Certainly, and there are other ways one can help. Protest. Writing your elected officials. Reporting to Amnesty International and the Red Cross. Financially supporting groups that advocate for the oppressed, and/or who hide/evacuate them.

Yes I would, due to simple human decency.

This guy is going to be a victim, rather than an aggressor, so I'd take them in, feed them, whatever.

20 years in prison?

No worry of mine if it's for a good reason.

It's like whenever anyone asks the question "In Nazi Germany, which role would you play?", everyone says "The resistance". It's always easy to say you'll be some brave freedom fighter who'll out yourself on the line, but there are very few people who would actually do it.


Even if the popular sentiment was "hate the government" I still think it would be only a tiny number of people who actually would hide them.


There was a thread like that, a poll even, and I think I made it clear that I had no hopes for anything more gallant than an attempt to gather intelligence.

I know myself, and I'm no good at being Rambo.

It's like whenever anyone asks the question "In Nazi Germany, which role would you play?", everyone says "The resistance". It's always easy to say you'll be some brave freedom fighter who'll out yourself on the line, but there are very few people who would actually do it.


Even if the popular sentiment was "hate the government" I still think it would be only a tiny number of people who actually would hide them.

I call that the "French Resistance" effect.

During WW II, there was absolutely ZERO French resistance until the British SOE organized the first few cells, and even then the total number of Resistance fighters was very small - a minor fraction of the total population. But, after the Allies rolled in, "everyone" claimed to have been in the Resistance.

Certainly, and there are other ways one can help. Protest. Writing your elected officials. Reporting to Amnesty International and the Red Cross. Financially supporting groups that advocate for the oppressed, and/or who hide/evacuate them.


Do you really think that that would stop a pre-meditated genocide?

I haven't found any in the office here yet who would.
I would assume that would include yourself?

If that is the case, then the following is not true?

I have Muslim friends.

You're saying that a nation such as Iran could not be the target of nuclear weapons?

Or that Western nations could not spend trillions of dollars on the idea of genocide?

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/experience/the.bomb/atomic.audit/

Really?

They are related. We've spent the money before, and organized whole arsenals to the idea. We didn't even care if everyone in the impact area was a Communist or not - we didn't even care if the fallout killed people in other nations not involved in the conflict.

I'm not discussing the morality of the Cold War, or the morality of rounding up Muslims. I'm discussing what you would do as an individual.

I don't think it can be done. I have enough faith in people like you to believe that humans would do something like this. It would be morally repugnant. It would not work. Bombing the entire Middle east in an effort to kill all Muslims is stupid. The reprisals by Muslims, Jews, Christians, oil tycoons, and the rest of the civilised world would leave you mired in the worst possible anarchy.

As an individual, I would continue to be active with the activists so that we can hold people like Curtis Lemay and his ilk accountable.

Yes, I would hide a muslim. My family protected Jews during WWII and I would be honored to continue that tradition.

I would assume that would include yourself?

If that is the case, then the following is not true?
Just because you're my friend doesn't mean I'd risk my family to hide you.

I would bring the muslim into the house then make them feel welcome then call 9/11 and report the muslim(But only if their was a reward)

I would bring the muslim into the house then make them feel welcome then call 9/11 and report the muslim(But only if their was a reward)

That reminds me of the NSB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationaal-Socialistische_Beweging)...

Just because you're my friend doesn't mean I'd risk my family to hide you.
You would risk your life for complete strangers, yet you wouldn't risk going to jail for 20 years for a friend?

I don't think you understand the concept of friendship?

You would risk your life for complete strangers, yet you wouldn't risk going to jail for 20 years for a friend?

I don't think you understand the concept of friendship?
Risking my life is one thing. Risking my family is another.

Risking my life is one thing. Risking my family is another.
Sorry, but your OP didn't talk about "risking your family". If you are unwilling to help your friend, then you really are not a friend.

Sorry, but your OP didn't talk about "risking your family". If you are unwilling to help your friend, then you really are not a friend.
That's pretty black and white for you isn't it?

If you ask me to choose between my family and a friend, I will choose my family every single time.

Sorry, but your OP didn't talk about "risking your family". If you are unwilling to help your friend, then you really are not a friend.
You haven't read other people's responses then, either.

Nice knee jerk.

I'm saying that you, in your situation - would you hide a Muslim?

Your situation might include your family.

My kids come before my friends, sorry.

That's pretty black and white for you isn't it?

If you ask me to choose between my family and a friend, I will choose my family every single time.

It would depend on the friend, for us. Many of my friends are friends to our whole family, so at that point, I would ask the family what they would decide. But this is a stranger, who only claims to be Muslim. I could not risk my family for a stranger.

That's pretty black and white for you isn't it?

If you ask me to choose between my family and a friend, I will choose my family every single time.
It is black and white. He did not mention a risk to the family in the OP.

This thread goes right to the character of the OP. This is the same DK who would sterilize all Muslims. When he states that he has Muslims friends, the flag went up.

Sorry, but your OP didn't talk about "risking your family". If you are unwilling to help your friend, then you really are not a friend.
Um, fuck that.

There are limits to what I will do for a friend. That doesn't mean I'm not a friend. If a friend asked me to help hide them after they'd killed 15 people, I'd refuse. If a friend asked me to endanger my little brother to save them, I'd refuse. If a friend asked me to let them impregnate me because otherwise their line would die out, I'd refuse.

There are plenty of things I would refuse a friend, and none of them mean that I'm not a real friend. I have standards and limits and a code of honor that is my own, and I am a worthy friend BECAUSE I stand by these things. I am worthy to be somebody's friend because I have principles and I stand up for them, instead of just caving in whenever somebody asks me to.

It is total bullshit to claim that somebody is "not a friend" if they feel their first duty is to protect their family. I'd never consider being friends with anybody who thought they were entited to endanger my loved ones. THAT is the mark of somebody who is "not a friend."

Do you really think that that would stop a pre-meditated genocide?
It's what I am willing to do to change injustice. You stated you want to extract sword-point conversions as a prerequisite to helping a person on your doorstep, whom you've said you would turn away if he refused to convert. I don't see that stopping "pre-meditated genocide" either.

You haven't read other people's responses then, either.

Nice knee jerk.

I'm saying that you, in your situation - would you hide a Muslim?

Your situation might include your family.

My kids come before my friends, sorry.
This whole thread is knee jerk and based solely on speculation. You hate Muslims, and you are trolling.

This thread goes right to the character of the OP. This is the same DK who would sterilize all Muslims. When he states that he has Muslims friends, the flag went up.

One of them was a captain in the Egyptian Army, who fought against radical Islamic extremists in Egypt.

He's the one who told me that if we aren't willing to commit genocide against all Muslims, we'll lose. Just a matter of time. They're willing to do what we are not willing to do.

It is black and white. He did not mention a risk to the family in the OP.
my family lives in my house, therefore anyone else in my house affects my family, if a random stranger showed up at my door, I would not "hide" them, because they would be a risk to my family.

Yes, I would hide a muslim. My family protected Jews during WWII and I would be honored to continue that tradition.

Members of my family were "backpacking" through Eastern Europe during WWII. I wouldn't mind continuing that tradition.

I am Jew and during world war II, members of my family were sent in camps. Not only because they were jew: my grand grand fatherwas a communist resistant.

So, if a muslim had to be arrested, only because he is muslim, and sent in something that looks like a jail, or anything worse, I would hide him.

I'd considerate that the gouvernment overpass his rights, and so would feel totally free to contradict his plans.

It would depend on the friend, for us. Many of my friends are friends to our whole family, so at that point, I would ask the family what they would decide. But this is a stranger, who only claims to be Muslim. I could not risk my family for a stranger.
if I have to choose, I will do what is best for my family. It doesn't mean I won't help a friend, it means that if helping them harms my family in any way, I won't help them.

He's the one who told me that if we aren't willing to commit genocide against all Muslims, we'll lose. Just a matter of time. They're willing to do what we are not willing to do.
That's because he's a killer, not an intellectual.

Hypothetical situation:

It's about three years from now, and after a few more major attacks by militant Islamic terrorists on Western nations (killing more than a few thousand each time), some Western nations (the one you live in perhaps) are finally fed up with it, and in desperation for a solution that will placate the angry electorate (which you may not be a part of, since you may not be angry at all), they announce the registration and roundup of all Muslims in the country. From there, they will be sent to camps in a remote area of your country for "the duration of the conflict".

They also announce penalties for anyone hiding a "registered person" from lawful authorities - 20 years in prison.

About three months into the roundup, a Muslim appears at your door. You don't know who he is. He's asking you to hide him in your house for "the duration".

Would you hide him for "the duration", however long that might be?
I probably would have left the country by the time things got so bad. Assuming that I was late for my plane or had to finish up some business before I left...

I would shelter him, but not indefinitely. In the interest for lessening the risk for both of us, I'd try to find a safer place for him to stay or else get him a way out the country all together. My apartment building isn't exactly a good safe haven for fugitives, and I just know there would be a neighbor that would turn me in. After he has gone his way, I'd definitely leave the country before the authorities heard about my sheltering a fugitive.

As for the possibility that he may be a thief, murderer, government agent in disguise, etc., I'll admit that it is a risk. But, if all I know is that he is being persecuted because of his religion, I'll give him shelter and accept the consequences should I misjudge him.

That's because he's a killer, not an intellectual.
Maybe he's more credible to me because he's dealt with them for most of his life.

I'd trust someone who has seen them up close and personal, over some armchair intellectual who can speak only of platitudes and hypotheticals.

Um, fuck that.

There are limits to what I will do for a friend. That doesn't mean I'm not a friend. If a friend asked me to help hide them after they'd killed 15 people, I'd refuse. If a friend asked me to endanger my little brother to save them, I'd refuse. If a friend asked me to let them impregnate me because otherwise their line would die out, I'd refuse.

There are plenty of things I would refuse a friend, and none of them mean that I'm not a real friend. I have standards and limits and a code of honor that is my own, and I am a worthy friend BECAUSE I stand by these things. I am worthy to be somebody's friend because I have principles and I stand up for them, instead of just caving in whenever somebody asks me to.

It is total bullshit to claim that somebody is "not a friend" if they feel their first duty is to protect their family. I'd never consider being friends with anybody who thought they were entited to endanger my loved ones. THAT is the mark of somebody who is "not a friend."
Ummm, this isn't about all the scenarios you have painted, it is about hiding someone from persecution based solely on their religion. I only expanded it after I noticed that DK stated that he had Muslim "friends". You have gone off in a totally opposite direction.

Maybe he's more credible to me because he's dealt with them for most of his life.
Or because he shares your own sympathies, perhaps.
I'd trust someone who has seen them up close and personal, over some armchair intellectual who can speak only of platitudes and hypotheticals.
Fair enough.

Ummm, this isn't about all the scenarios you have painted, it is about hiding someone from persecution based solely on their religion. I only expanded it after I noticed that DK stated that he had Muslim "friends". You have gone off in a totally opposite direction.

You don't seem to get it.

You, in your current situation, would you hide a Muslim.

You, in your current situation, may have family and friends and children living with you.

I'm asking would you risk your life, and potentially the lives of others with you, for the life of the Muslim at the door?

You don't seem to get it.

You, in your current situation, would you hide a Muslim.

You, in your current situation, may have family and friends and children living with you.

I'm asking would you risk your life, and potentially the lives of others with you, for the life of the Muslim at the door?
I certainly would, as long as the common concensus was that we should take them in, yeah.

Simply because to do otherwise would be to let stupid prejudice win out over the actions of individual human beings.

Ummm, this isn't about all the scenarios you have painted, it is about hiding someone from persecution based solely on their religion. I only expanded it after I noticed that DK stated that he had Muslim "friends". You have gone off in a totally opposite direction.
You made it about "real friendship." You decided to claim that somebody isn't a "real friend" unless they are willing to put their family members' lives in danger for the sake of their buddy. If you now recognize that you overstated your case, that's fine, and we can let it go. But don't pretend like I went off in some bizarre direction when I directly responded to what you posted.

No.

I'd hide friends who were muslims, but not a complete stranger.

There is a difference, and it is called trust.

How do I know the person I let in wouldn't rob/steal, hurt/kill me when I was asleep?

Sorry but...are you saying,Smunkeeville, that your family would be an excuse to not help someone who needs it??? How can someone says that???Of course, there are risks, yes. But...Imagine, if your child study far from house, and can't go back home, if he was in the Muslim situation, and if he asked to a family to help him, to hide him, and someone in the house would answer "No, because you'd represent a risk for me, my wife and my children", what would you think???
No, really, protecting your family is not, in my opinion, a good reason...
But maybe I am only an idiot...

I certainly would, as long as the common concensus was that we should take them in, yeah.
so you base your decisions on what other people are doing?

Simply because to do otherwise would be to let stupid prejudice win out over the actions of individual human beings.
so anyone who doesn't care to hide a random stranger in their house is prejudiced?

You don't seem to get it.

You, in your current situation, would you hide a Muslim.

You, in your current situation, may have family and friends and children living with you.

I'm asking would you risk your life, and potentially the lives of others with you, for the life of the Muslim at the door?
Exactly. My home happens to be somebody else's home, too. If I were to make a decision about who to let into "my" home, I would actually be making a decision about letting somebody into OUR home.

My answer to this question would probably have been different if I had children living with me, since I would have said "FUCK NO, I'm not putting my kids in danger to shelter some random dude who knocked at the door!"

Sorry but...are you saying,Smunkeeville, that your family would be an excuse to not help someone who needs it??? How can someone says that???
I say that because it is true.


Of course, there are risks, yes. But...Imagine, if your child study far from house, and can't go back home, if he was in the Muslim situation, and if he asked to a family to help him, to hide him, and someone in the house would answer "No, because you'd represent a risk for me, my wife and my children", what would you think???
I would think that my child had asked them more than they were willing or able to provide.


No, really, protecting your family is not, in my opinion, a good reason...
But maybe I am only an idiot...
My family is a lot higher on the list of people to help, than a random stranger, maybe I am just human.

so you base your decisions on what other people are doing?
No, I'd personally choose to bring them in, but I'd rather hear what other people want to say as well. If I'm the only person who wants to take them in, and the rest of the people in the house will resent their presence and possibly endanger them by being prepared to reveal them, then I'd rather not take them in.
so anyone who doesn't care to hide a random stranger in their house is prejudiced?
No, because it's state-prejudice in this case, rather than a personal prejudice (in most cases).

I could understand if you wanted to protect your family by not letting this person in, I suppose, although I do feel that it would be slightly... well... callous of you.

I could understand if you wanted to protect your family by not letting this person in, I suppose, although I do feel that it would be slightly... well... callous of you.
it's callous to protect children?

it's callous to protect children?
No, it's more that it's callous to turn someone away if it's at all possible to help them.

it's callous to protect children?
Would you hide the Muslim if he/she was a friend of yours?

I could understand if you wanted to protect your family by not letting this person in, I suppose, although I do feel that it would be slightly... well... callous of you.
Keep in mind, this scenario is one in which we don't even know if the man at the door is really what he claims to be.

Is Smunkee "callous" for exhibiting caution about who she has living in her home with her children? She has no way of knowing who he is or what he really wants, so is she wrong for deciding not to risk her children's safety on a stranger's word?

Ok...
I really don't understand human brain! A stranger or a close friend, or anybody...
No really, my grand parents told me what happened during World War II...What happened to them. To their friends. Hide someone represents a risk I'd take. Knowing that members of my family died in Buchenwald, I couldn't bear a minute to know that I let someone in danger out. Even though he represents a risk. Solidarity is more important than anything.
To me...

Would you hide the Muslim if he/she was a friend of yours?
I already said that I would hide my neighbors who are Muslim. It's not the religion of the people that bothers me at all, it was the random stranger part, if a random stranger came to my door and they claimed to be my religion I still wouldn't let them live in my house with my children.

No, it's more that it's callous to turn someone away if it's at all possible to help them.
so if someone came to my door and said they were going to get evicted if they didn't pay their 4 months back rent, should I give them the money even if it would cause my children to not have food that month?

Ok...
I really don't understand human brain! A stranger or a close friend, or anybody...
No really, my grand parents told me what happened during World War II...What happened to them. To their friends. Hide someone represents a risk I'd take. Knowing that members of my family died in Buchenwald, I couldn't bear a minute to know that I let someone in danger out. Even though he represents a risk. Solidarity is more important than anything.
To me...
I help people all the time, I help them everyday, I draw a line of what is acceptable help, putting a stranger in my house is not an acceptable risk to me.

No, it's more that it's callous to turn someone away if it's at all possible to help them.
Do you give food or money to every homeless person you see?

I already said that I would hide my neighbors who are Muslim. It's not the religion of the people that bothers me at all, it was the random stranger part, if a random stranger came to my door and they claimed to be my religion I still wouldn't let them live in my house with my children.
Bingo.

If the Muslim is somebody I know, then it's a whole different situation. This topic seems to be, "Would you allow a total stranger free access to your home for no reason other than that he tells you he is a persecuted Muslim fleeing oppression?"

No, it's more that it's callous to turn someone away if it's at all possible to help them.
Then why don't you take in two or three homeless people?

Bingo.

If the Muslim is somebody I know, then it's a whole different situation. This topic seems to be, "Would you allow a total stranger free access to your home for no reason other than that he tells you he is a persecuted Muslim fleeing oppression?"

I'm getting the impression that some people would hide the Muslim more out of a sense of political resistance to a government that would do such a thing, rather than a sense of actual practical humanity.

Hypothetical situation:

It's about three years from now, and after a few more major attacks by militant Islamic terrorists on Western nations (killing more than a few thousand each time), some Western nations (the one you live in perhaps) are finally fed up with it, and in desperation for a solution that will placate the angry electorate (which you may not be a part of, since you may not be angry at all), they announce the registration and roundup of all Muslims in the country. From there, they will be sent to camps in a remote area of your country for "the duration of the conflict".

They also announce penalties for anyone hiding a "registered person" from lawful authorities - 20 years in prison.

About three months into the roundup, a Muslim appears at your door. You don't know who he is. He's asking you to hide him in your house for "the duration".

Would you hide him for "the duration", however long that might be?

Nope. For a few reasons:

One, I wouldnt trust any stranger who came to my house asking for shelter.

Two, he might actually be who the government says he is, in which case I just put myself, and my family, and any friends who might be over in complete and total mortal peril.

Three, chances are, if the government initiates these actions because of major nation-threatening terrorist attacks on our nation, and not just trying to "rid the aryan race of the untermenschne", there is probably a good reason for them doing so.

And finally, Four, to be totally honest, a Muslim would be incompatble in my familys household. Our views, relgions, and cultures would clash completly under one houshold.

Keep in mind, this scenario is one in which we don't even know if the man at the door is really what he claims to be.

Is Smunkee "callous" for exhibiting caution about who she has living in her home with her children? She has no way of knowing who he is or what he really wants, so is she wrong for deciding not to risk her children's safety on a stranger's word?
I would probably say that maybe inviting them in, and talking to them about who they are and what they are like as a person etc. before making a judgement is the least you could do.

It'd be rather unfair to say "no" to someone straight away, just because they might be a bad person, without knowing anything about them, just as, I suppose, it'd be rather foolish to say "yes" to someone without knowing who they are, if there are children around.

Not being a mother, I don't really know how much maternal instincts to protect your children from harm would come into this, and I suppose that this might well lead to a very different set of moral judgements than to those I would make (not having children at the moment).

I suppose that different people in different circumstances make different choices.

I would say it would be callous to turn them away flat, but on the other hand, having children to look after might make the choice a harder one.

You don't seem to get it.

You, in your current situation, would you hide a Muslim.

You, in your current situation, may have family and friends and children living with you.

I'm asking would you risk your life, and potentially the lives of others with you, for the life of the Muslim at the door?
I get it alright. You have started many anti-Muslim threads and I see this as an extension of them. Your suggestion that you have Muslim "friends" is laughable, especially when you state that you would not help them. Do these friends know that you would like to sterilize them?

As to what I would do, God only knows, but I would hope and pray that I do the right thing at that time. Anybody can hypothesize about what they might do, but that might not be the reality. As the old saying goes...."talk is cheap, it takes money to buy whiskey".

Do these friends know that you would like to sterilize them?

Yes. It was his idea.

I'm getting the impression that some people would hide the Muslim more out of a sense of political resistance to a government that would do such a thing, rather than a sense of actual practical humanity.

For me it's both. I am both a political resistance member in my country and a known activist for improving practical humanity. If someone who could face unwarranted, unfair persecution is in danger, I would help him, out of the virtue of charity, out of spite for the goverment who dares to do such a thing, and also for the thrill of it. I could include the fact that I would like someone to do the same for me the day the venezuelan DISIP starts looking for me for being an imperialistic dissenter.

I could include the fact that I would like someone to do the same for me the day the venezuelan DISIP starts looking for me for being an imperialistic dissenter.

As though Aelosia could exercise her imperialistic desires, and take over the world...

How do you live there?

I would probably say that maybe inviting them in, and talking to them about who they are and what they are like as a person etc. before making a judgement is the least you could do.

It'd be rather unfair to say "no" to someone straight away, just because they might be a bad person, without knowing anything about them, just as, I suppose, it'd be rather foolish to say "yes" to someone without knowing who they are, if there are children around.

Not being a mother, I don't really know how much maternal instincts to protect your children from harm would come into this, and I suppose that this might well lead to a very different set of moral judgements than to those I would make (not having children at the moment).

I suppose that different people in different circumstances make different choices.

I would say it would be callous to turn them away flat, but on the other hand, having children to look after might make the choice a harder one.


I am personally uncomfortable with strangers in the house because of my childhood, which probably factors into this a bit, but yeah, I have this really strong need to do what's best for my family and I feel it's best for them if I try to keep them from danger. A random stranger on my doorstep is an unknown, talking to them for a few minutes will not make a difference. I knew my best friend for 2 years before I let her keep one of my children over night, I am just that kind of mom.

Yes. It was his idea.
Does he have children? Would he like to have his children sterilized? Either way, he is not well.

Does he have children? Would he like to have his children sterilized? Either way, he is not well.
He's had more experience at fighting radical Islam than anyone I've seen, and has seen it sweep through and destroy more moderate Islamic thought.

He sees the end coming, and has not had children on purpose.

I am personally uncomfortable with strangers in the house because of my childhood, which probably factors into this a bit, but yeah, I have this really strong need to do what's best for my family and I feel it's best for them if I try to keep them from danger. A random stranger on my doorstep is an unknown, talking to them for a few minutes will not make a difference. I knew my best friend for 2 years before I let her keep one of my children over night, I am just that kind of mom.
Well that's fair enough, your own experiences factor into it, and your family loyalty and wish to safeguard your children are clearly going to be a factor in the decision that you make.

I would probably say that maybe inviting them in, and talking to them about who they are and what they are like as a person etc. before making a judgement is the least you could do.

A total stranger. Into your home, with your children.

Maybe it's because I've lived my whole life in very urban areas, but this is UNTHINKABLE where I live. You simply do not let total strangers into your home, no matter how nice and charming they seem to be. Repair men/women must show ID before they enter, even if you called to have them come over. The police must show a badge. Salesmen are entertained on the porch or stoop, not inside the home.


It'd be rather unfair to say "no" to someone straight away, just because they might be a bad person, without knowing anything about them, just as, I suppose, it'd be rather foolish to say "yes" to someone without knowing who they are, if there are children around.

You've already said "yes," by letting them in the house. You've already risked your kids if you let somebody you don't know come into your home.


Not being a mother, I don't really know how much maternal instincts to protect your children from harm would come into this, and I suppose that this might well lead to a very different set of moral judgements than to those I would make (not having children at the moment).

It's got bugger-all to do with "maternal instincts." Parents are responsible, first and foremost, for the welfare of their children. That's what you sign on for when you have a child. The safety of your children comes before anybody else.


I suppose that different people in different circumstances make different choices.

I would say it would be callous to turn them away flat, but on the other hand, having children to look after might make the choice a harder one.
It's quite possible to offer other forms of help without having the person into your home.

For me it's both. I am both a political resistance member in my country and a known activist for improving practical humanity. If someone who could face unwarranted, unfair persecution is in danger, I would help him, out of the virtue of charity, out of spite for the goverment who dares to do such a thing, and also for the thrill of it. I could include the fact that I would like someone to do the same for me the day the venezuelan DISIP starts looking for me for being an imperialistic dissenter.

Cuando Dirección de Servicios de Inteligencia y Prevención está después de tí, montaré una misión del rescate. ;)

EDIT: I'm sure I screwed something up in there... :(

Maybe it's because I've lived my whole life in very urban areas, but this is UNTHINKABLE where I live. You simply do not let total strangers into your home, no matter how nice and charming they seem to be. Repair men/women must show ID before they enter, even if you called to have them come over. The police must show a badge. Salesmen are entertained on the porch or stoop, not inside the home.
I thought I was the only one who did that. I called the cable co. a few weeks back and they showed up when they said they would, but the guy didn't have his badge, so I made him wait on the porch and called the cable co. and made them send out someone with a badge that I could verify, then when he got here I called and made sure he worked for them, and had them check his badge number against their records.

:p am I a nut? probably. but there have been a lot of home invasions around here with people dressed up in official looking uniforms.

He's had more experience at fighting radical Islam than anyone I've seen, and has seen it sweep through and destroy more moderate Islamic thought.

He sees the end coming, and has not had children on purpose.

I don't believe you.

As though Aelosia could exercise her imperialistic desires, and take over the world...

How do you live there?

I'm not an imperialistic person, you know that I am against Israel's actions in the Lebanon, against the war in Iraq, I support progressive policies in social fields, against gun control, and mainly think that George W Bush is a..."schmuck", but the fact that I am also against Fidel Castro and rampant demagogues, communists, and dictators, helps the goverment to label me as a "imperialistic dissenter payed by the CIA", just because I don't like Chávez speeches.

I don't believe you.
You don't have to.

His father was a cotton dealer in Cairo. Wealthy family. All the sons went to a military academy. After graduation, he went to fight insurgents in the south. All of his friends were killed by insurgents. He came to the US in the mid-1980s, and refused to go back home when his father died (old age). His one surviving brother (the others were also killed by radical Muslims) runs the business today, but its main offices are now in Switzerland.

He doesn't see any hope that moderate Islam will survive.

I'm not an imperialistic person, you know that I am against Israel's actions in the Lebanon, against the war in Iraq, I support progressive policies in social fields, against gun control, and mainly think that George W Bush is a..."schmuck", but the fact that I am also against Fidel Castro and rampant demagogues, communists, and dictators, helps the goverment to label me as a "imperialistic dissenter payed by the CIA", just because I don't like Chávez speeches.

You do realise that "schmuck" is Yiddish for "penis," right?

I thought I was the only one who did that. I called the cable co. a few weeks back and they showed up when they said they would, but the guy didn't have his badge, so I made him wait on the porch and called the cable co. and made them send out someone with a badge that I could verify, then when he got here I called and made sure he worked for them, and had them check his badge number against their records.

:p am I a nut? probably. but there have been a lot of home invasions around here with people dressed up in official looking uniforms.
Heh, you definitely are a lot more cautious than I am! But I probably would do the same if I'd ever had real trouble with a visitor. I've never been the victim of a break-in or home invasion, so I tend to be a bit relaxed with such things.

At the same time, I would NEVER let a stranger into my house on their word alone. If they want to chat, I am more than willing to step out into the hall to hear what they have to say (I live in an apartment). If they want to give me their life story, and if I feel like hearing it, there's a pub right around the corner. But they're not coming into my home as long as they are still a stranger to me.

Without a doubt. Raoul Wallenberg's legacy has not died.

You do realise that "schmuck" is Yiddish for "penis," right? For "foreskin", to be exact.

And your point was...? :p

You do realise that "schmuck" is Yiddish for "penis," right?
I'd say that's an apt word for our Most Uber-Manly Super Cowboy President. ;)

For "foreskin", to be exact.

And your point was...? :p

Just wondering. :p

I'd say that's an apt word for our Most Uber-Manly Super Cowboy President. ;)

I thought that was Reagan...

Just wondering. :p
Good. For a second there I was scared you were actually preparing some big, passionate defense of the Shrub. :eek:

I thought that was Reagan...
Didn't you hear them talking about Bush's "manly characteristic" when he pulled that stunt on the aircraft carrier?

Granted, I was a bit young during the Reagan years, but I don't remember any news anchors commenting on the size of his package during a broadcast.

Oops, but this is becoming a hijack. Enough about the Presidential Dingle.

He doesn't see any hope that moderate Islam will survive.

I guess your mythical person is a fool or a self-hating cynic. I would still help him, if he were the stranger at my door, and I had no family.

Good. For a second there I was scared you were actually preparing some big, passionate defense of the Shrub. :eek:
Have you noticed a trend?

Americans tend to elect the President who appears more "manly".

Reagan more "manly" than his opponents.
Clinton more "manly" than his opponents.
The current Bush more "manly" than his opponents.

I've thought for a while that who is President has less to do with actual political crap coming out of mouths, and more to do with the apparent masculinity of the candidate.

Good. For a second there I was scared you were actually preparing some big, passionate defense of the Shrub. :eek:

Nah, not a big fan. I'm a libertarian (small "l"). Many of the Bush administration's policies smack of police state to me.

Didn't you hear them talking about Bush's "manly characteristic" when he pulled that stunt on the aircraft carrier?

Granted, I was a bit young during the Reagan years, but I don't remember any news anchors commenting on the size of his package during a broadcast.

Oops, but this is becoming a hijack. Enough about the Presidential Dingle.

Yeah, let's veer away from discussing presidential packages... :eek:

Nah, not a big fan. I'm a libertarian (small "l"). Many of the Bush administration's policies smack of police state to me.
So did many of the Clinton policies, such as attacking religious nuts in a compound with military vehicles, gas, automatic weapons, and flames. Or shooting unarmed women holding babies, and giving a medal to the shooter (and a promotion).

I think it's a trend, regardless of party.

So did many of the Clinton policies, such as attacking religious nuts in a compound with military vehicles, gas, automatic weapons, and flames. Or shooting unarmed women holding babies, and giving a medal to the shooter (and a promotion).

I think it's a trend, regardless of party.

Never said I was a fan of Clinton either.

Ummm, this isn't about all the scenarios you have painted, it is about hiding someone from persecution based solely on their religion. I only expanded it after I noticed that DK stated that he had Muslim "friends". You have gone off in a totally opposite direction.


Actually, it was about hiding a stranger who purported to be Muslim during a time of internment, so, it would seem to me that justification for not doing so is relevant.

Heh, you definitely are a lot more cautious than I am! But I probably would do the same if I'd ever had real trouble with a visitor. I've never been the victim of a break-in or home invasion, so I tend to be a bit relaxed with such things.
there have been about 5 home invasions in my neighborhood in the last 2 months, 2 of them ended up with the families killed. I don't let anyone in my home unless I know who they are and what they want. I don't even answer the door unless I am expecting someone.

No, really, protecting your family is not, in my opinion, a good reason...
But maybe I am only an idiot...

Yes. Let's get our priorities straight. Strangers before family.

Cuando la Dirección de Servicios de Inteligencia y Prevención te persiga, montaré una misión del rescate.

NOTE: "Perseguir" is a better verb than the "to be" in spanish to translate the "after you" idiom in english, meaning "to chase"

And thanks, please be sure of bring along some flashy marines and Delta Forces with you. Not the Abu Ghraib variety, although.

Hypothetical situation:

It's about three years from now, and after a few more major attacks by militant Islamic terrorists on Western nations (killing more than a few thousand each time), some Western nations (the one you live in perhaps) are finally fed up with it, and in desperation for a solution that will placate the angry electorate (which you may not be a part of, since you may not be angry at all), they announce the registration and roundup of all Muslims in the country. From there, they will be sent to camps in a remote area of your country for "the duration of the conflict".

They also announce penalties for anyone hiding a "registered person" from lawful authorities - 20 years in prison.

About three months into the roundup, a Muslim appears at your door. You don't know who he is. He's asking you to hide him in your house for "the duration".

Would you hide him for "the duration", however long that might be?
I would, as my best friend is Muslim. I'd help her out and her friends as well. Screw the authorities.

NOTE: "Perseguir" is a better verb than the "to be" in spanish to translate the "after you" idiom in english, meaning "to chase"

And thanks, please be sure of bring along some flashy marines and Delta Forces with you. Not the Abu Ghraib variety, although.

Ah, "perseguir," yes. Much better. Thanks! :)

And I thought I'd just bring myself and Chuck Norris. :D

there have been about 5 home invasions in my neighborhood in the last 2 months, 2 of them ended up with the families killed. I don't let anyone in my home unless I know who they are and what they want. I don't even answer the door unless I am expecting someone.

...meanwhile in another thread Deep Kimchi was explaining how guns make his country safe

Not only would I hide him/her/them I would be activly rebelling against the govenment at this point trying to bring the corrupt sobs down.

How many people in the UK do you believe would hide one, on penalty of 20 years in prison?

I haven't found any in the office here yet who would.

Well your office is obviously staffed by cowards.

It depends. I have Muslim friends.

I proposed the genocide as a possible technical solution, and one that I believe the West will come to if forced to it by events.

We may not be able to avoid coming to that conclusion.



Who is this WE white man? If we come to this conclusion you can damn well bet that I will not be the only person out to kill eveyone who is a part of this mythical we.

So you'd question Hitler?
That does not seem very effective, one way or the other.
Ditto for Staling.

You on the other hand efectively stated that you would OBEY Hitler.

Certainly, and there are other ways one can help. Protest. Writing your elected officials. Reporting to Amnesty International and the Red Cross. Financially supporting groups that advocate for the oppressed, and/or who hide/evacuate them.

Armed rebelion.

...meanwhile in another thread Deep Kimchi was explaining how guns make his country safe
the families without guns are the ones who were killed, and btw they weren't shot, they were stabbed.

the families without guns are the ones who were killed, and btw they weren't shot, they were stabbed.

Point taken but it hardly makes it sound like the low crime paradise that DK paints in his pro-gun 2nd amendment thread

Point taken but it hardly makes it sound like the low crime paradise that DK paints in his pro-gun 2nd amendment thread
true. I don't want to hijack the thred though ;)

Armed rebelion.

Right. And while you're dead, I'll still be around fighting to change the laws and to get international pressure brought to bear.

Right. And while you're dead, I'll still be around fighting to change the laws and to get international pressure brought to bear.

I rather hate to drag out such a beaten horse, but it seems the most apt comparison. There were those who tried to do this in Nazi Germany; they resulted in being arrested and being sent to a Concentration Camp, or at best being forced underground. In the end, 'International Pressure' ended up being an armed invasion of Germany - and ending the Holocaust wasn't even on the agenda of that invasion.

Right. And while you're dead, I'll still be around fighting to change the laws and to get international pressure brought to bear.

And within a month you yourself would probably be thrown in a camp. When it gets as bad as this thread postulates armed rebelion is the only way out.

I rather hate to drag out such a beaten horse, but it seems the most apt comparison. There were those who tried to do this in Nazi Germany; they resulted in being arrested and being sent to a Concentration Camp, or at best being forced underground. In the end, 'International Pressure' ended up being an armed invasion of Germany - and ending the Holocaust wasn't even on the agenda of that invasion.

thank you, exactly my position on this.

Taking into account the size of my apartment... I would have to say no.

there would be no hiding in my area. too many people can see who's coming or going from my building.

Who is this WE white man? If we come to this conclusion you can damn well bet that I will not be the only person out to kill eveyone who is a part of this mythical we.
Unfortunately, you're the umpteenth person who has made the inane assumption that I'm white.

Nope. For a few reasons:

One, I wouldnt trust any stranger who came to my house asking for shelter.

Two, he might actually be who the government says he is, in which case I just put myself, and my family, and any friends who might be over in complete and total mortal peril.

Three, chances are, if the government initiates these actions because of major nation-threatening terrorist attacks on our nation, and not just trying to "rid the aryan race of the untermenschne", there is probably a good reason for them doing so.

And finally, Four, to be totally honest, a Muslim would be incompatble in my familys household. Our views, relgions, and cultures would clash completly under one houshold.

Also, I forgot to add...WHY is the government rounding up Muslims?

Unfortunately, you're the umpteenth person who has made the inane assumption that I'm white.

It's more a figure of speach, after all I actualy AM and the phrase I used implyes otherwise.

Who is this WE white man? If we come to this conclusion you can damn well bet that I will not be the only person out to kill eveyone who is a part of this mythical we.

Fuck off, Black Panther.

Unfortunately, you're the umpteenth person who has made the inane assumption that I'm white.
Arnt you like half Korean?

Also, I forgot to add...WHY is the government rounding up Muslims?

Because America has become Nazi Germany and Muslims are the new Jew.

And within a month you yourself would probably be thrown in a camp. When it gets as bad as this thread postulates armed rebelion is the only way out.
nope. there are other options.

work the system from the inside. then get your people into key positions and effect change that way.

another option is for the Muslims to take a clue from the Japanese during WWII and fight the real cause for such measures. Start turning in all those "Would be Martyrs" and start policing their own.

nope. there are other options.

work the system from the inside. then get your people into key positions and effect change that way.


This worked so well in nazi germany . . .

Because America has become Nazi Germany and Muslims are the new Jew.
Nazis had no REAL reason for what they did.

What is the stated reason for what America is "doing"?

Because America has become Nazi Germany and Muslims are the new Jew.

Yes, very good, troll. Now run along... :rolleyes:

Fuck off, Black Panther.

Damn, people have to quit takeing a known Erisian so bloody seriously . . .

Yes, without hesitation.

Yes, very good, troll. Now run along... :rolleyes:

In the hypothetical situation described in the origional post the govenment is acting like Nazi Germany, how is this a troll?

<edit: You do realise that I'm refering to the America described in the origional post yes?>

Hypothetical situation:

It's about three years from now, and after a few more major attacks by militant Islamic terrorists on Western nations (killing more than a few thousand each time), some Western nations (the one you live in perhaps) are finally fed up with it, and in desperation for a solution that will placate the angry electorate (which you may not be a part of, since you may not be angry at all), they announce the registration and roundup of all Muslims in the country. From there, they will be sent to camps in a remote area of your country for "the duration of the conflict".

They also announce penalties for anyone hiding a "registered person" from lawful authorities - 20 years in prison.

About three months into the roundup, a Muslim appears at your door. You don't know who he is. He's asking you to hide him in your house for "the duration".

Would you hide him for "the duration", however long that might be?

Not only would I not hide him, I'd hold him while I summoned the authorities to haul him away.

But you already knew that, didn't you? ;)

In the hypothetical situation described in the origional post the govenment is acting like Nazi Germany, how is this a troll?
I didn't say that the government was putting the Muslims up a smokestack.

More like the US government actions towards Japanese during WW II.

I'd probably opt for my own safety unless it was a particularly attractive woman.

I rather hate to drag out such a beaten horse, but it seems the most apt comparison. There were those who tried to do this in Nazi Germany; they resulted in being arrested and being sent to a Concentration Camp, or at best being forced underground. In the end, 'International Pressure' ended up being an armed invasion of Germany - and ending the Holocaust wasn't even on the agenda of that invasion.

I will remind you that the US put American citizens of Japanese descent into internment camps during World War II. Were any protesters of that murdered? Did anyone go to jail for helping them?

Your hyperbole does not seem to fit the situation given past, similar and equally abhorrent instances in this country's history.

I didn't say that the government was putting the Muslims up a smokestack.


No, that comes after people have accepted the camps.

Hypothetical situation:

It's about three years from now, and after a few more major attacks by militant Islamic terrorists on Western nations (killing more than a few thousand each time), some Western nations (the one you live in perhaps) are finally fed up with it, and in desperation for a solution that will placate the angry electorate (which you may not be a part of, since you may not be angry at all), they announce the registration and roundup of all Muslims in the country. From there, they will be sent to camps in a remote area of your country for "the duration of the conflict".

They also announce penalties for anyone hiding a "registered person" from lawful authorities - 20 years in prison.

About three months into the roundup, a Muslim appears at your door. You don't know who he is. He's asking you to hide him in your house for "the duration".

Would you hide him for "the duration", however long that might be?


No I wouldnt trust him to be who and what he says he is.

I didn't say that the government was putting the Muslims up a smokestack.

Neither did the Nazis .... at first.

Fuck off, Black Panther.

Warned for flaming.

No, that comes after people have accepted the camps.
We never put Japanese up the smokestack.

No, that comes after people have accepted the camps.

I go back to my previous judgment: troll. :rolleyes:

We never put Japanese up the smokestack.

War didn't last long enough. This war could last decades. Every Muslim put in a camp in the US creates 10 new Muslim terrorists in the ME.

Self-fulfilling prophecy. If you're gonna start rounding 'em up, may as well just kill them.

We've seen it happen before.

Incidently, would you hide guns or a gun owner if the 2nd Amendment were repealed and they imposed a 20 year penalty for gun ownership or aiding a gun owner?

No, that comes after people have accepted the camps.

ah, the old slippery slope fallacy


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Would I hide a person being targeted and persecuted because of their faith?

Surprising how many those who claim to be Chrisitian, forget to act in a Christian way.

As for the OP, yes. Gladly- be the person Muslim, Jewish, Catholic, Druze, Calvinist, Buddhist, American, Colombian, English, Icelandic, Irish or South African.

The resistance of unjust laws transcends those boundaries.

Incidently, would you hide guns or a gun owner if the 2nd Amendment were repealed and they imposed a 20 year penalty for gun ownership or aiding a gun owner?
Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard. How hard is it to hide a gun?

Ok..now how hard is to hide, feed, bathe, clothe..ect a Muslim. :rolleyes:

Puh-lease.

Lame-O

In principle yes, just as I would have hidden a jew in nazi germany. In reality I only have a small house and There are only about 200 non whites in my home town of about 20,000 people, so it would be rather impractical. but yeah id do it. why the fuck not.

How hard is it to hide a gun?

Considering a $10 radio shack metal detector will pick up a hidden gun, I'd say it's pretty difficult.

Ok..now how hard is to hide, feed, bathe, clothe..ect a Muslim. :rolleyes:

If he's not Arab, pretty damned easily. Don't even have to really hide him. I walk around with white and black Muslims all the time. Nobody can tell they're Muslim. Neither would you be.

Warned for flaming.

Because I'm white. As usual.

Because I'm white. As usual.

Hardly. :rolleyes:

Because I'm white. As usual.

The Man keepin' you down?

Hardly. :rolleyes:

No, that's pretty much it. Eris makes a racial insult, nothing happens to him.

War didn't last long enough. This war could last decades. Every Muslim put in a camp in the US creates 10 new Muslim terrorists in the ME.

There's that absurd argument again (and once again with no factual support): Muslim terrorists attack defenseless people. Victims retaliate. Therefore more Muslim terrorists are created.

I suppose by your twisted reasoning, every time we don't put a Muslim in a camp, 10 existing Muslim terrorists in the ME somehow disappear
:p

If our response to Muslim terrorism creates more Muslim terrorists, then that just gives us more targets and we should take advantage of the opportunity to eradicate more of them. If Muslims choose to become terrorists, for any reason or no reason, they must suffer the fate of terrorists: a painful violent death.

Considering a $10 radio shack metal detector will pick up a hidden gun, I'd say it's pretty difficult.

If he's not Arab, pretty damned easily. Don't even have to really hide him. I walk around with white and black Muslims all the time. Nobody can tell they're Muslim. Neither would you be.

Considering that unregistered fully automatic weapons are illegal in the US, and only a handful or registered fully automatic weapons have ever been used in the commission of a crime, yet there seem to be plenty of fully automatic weapons used by street gangs in drive bys, it's a lot easier to hide a gun.

A gun doesn't have to eat, can be taken apart into small pieces without harming it, and can be dispersed into several hiding places.

A person has to eat, sleep, and has to remain intact (unless you plan on using the chainsaw to cut them up).

No, that's pretty much it. Eris makes a racial insult, nothing happens to him.

I suggest not pushing this one. He'll get his in time. ;)

No, that's pretty much it. Eris makes a racial insult, nothing happens to him.
not saying that Kat isn't uber cool, but she can't see everything, maybe you should bring it to her attention in the moderation forum, and quit hijacking this thred.

Armed rebelion.


Armed Resistance only gives more credit to the people trying to take the rights of muslims away. If the only people supporting the rights of muslims are busy setting cars on fire it gives the government that much more of an excuse to rob them of their rights. Besides your facing the world's most powerful armed force with a bloated, out-of-control budget, what do you expect to achieve?

My idea for resistance would be to go into Time Square, face mecca and perform an Islamic style prayer with a shirt on saying "we are not afraid." Sure I would go to jail, but I will have done more damage to this apartheid than 1,000 revolutionaries.

Arnt you like half Korean?

Given his sociopathic ambitions and unwavering pride in claiming amorality, I'd say he's part North Korean. Who knows? Might be a distant branch of the Kim family. Would explain a lot why he wants Muslims dead too.

Speaking of which, I guess DK's secretly sad that more people so far are showing humanity on the polls. Don't know why he really bothered with the thread in the first place.

Anyone who's read Deep Kimchi here could figure he'd be signing up for a position at Allah-schwitz. Preferably one where he could interact with the "populace" in a brutal manner.

Considering that unregistered fully automatic weapons are illegal in the US, and only a handful or registered fully automatic weapons have ever been used in the commission of a crime, yet there seem to be plenty of fully automatic weapons used by street gangs in drive bys, it's a lot easier to hide a gun.

A gun doesn't have to eat, can be taken apart into small pieces without harming it, and can be dispersed into several hiding places.

A person has to eat, sleep, and has to remain intact (unless you plan on using the chainsaw to cut them up).
then what's the point?

the size the peices have to be to avoid most detectors would require some time to put back together.

Then again, I'm sure the "enemey" will be happy to wait while you scurry around the house piecing your piece back together... :p

War didn't last long enough. This war could last decades. Every Muslim put in a camp in the US creates 10 new Muslim terrorists in the ME.


So you are saying that the claim by ME terrorists that they just want the US to go home and leave them alone is actually bullshit? They actually want to dictate domestic policy to the US after all. (Which is what a lot of people reckon and gets poo-pooed.)

A gun doesn't have to eat, can be taken apart into small pieces without harming it, and can be dispersed into several hiding places.

Part of it was "or a gun owner". A gun owner does have to eat and can't be taken apart into small pieces.

So you are saying that the claim by ME terrorists that they just want the US to go home and leave them alone is actually bullshit? They actually want to dictate domestic policy to the US after all. (Which is what a lot of people reckon and gets poo-pooed.)

No more so than any of us do. I don't know if you're American, but let's pretend you are.

If a foreign nation decided to start rounding up American citizens and putting them in camps for the sole reason that they're American, wouldn't you want to dictate their foreign policy a little?

My idea for resistance would be to go into Time Square, face mecca and perform an Islamic style prayer with a shirt on saying "we are not afraid." Sure I would go to jail, but I will have done more damage to this apartheid than 1,000 revolutionaries.

I hope you get arrested if you did that.

Part of it was "or a gun owner". A gun owner does have to eat and can't be taken apart into small pieces.
Well, I can own a gun without having to carry it around everywhere. That's what burial cache canisters are for.

No more so than any of us do. I don't know if you're American, but let's pretend you are.

If a foreign nation decided to start rounding up American citizens and putting them in camps for the sole reason that they're American, wouldn't you want to dictate their foreign policy a little?

Sure. It works both ways.

Since a foreign nation decided to fund, train, and house terrorists (Afghanistan) to attack and kill American citizens for the sole reason that they are Americans, we went and dictated their foreign policy quite a bit.

No more so than any of us do. I don't know if you're American, but let's pretend you are.

If a foreign nation decided to start rounding up American citizens and putting them in camps for the sole reason that they're American, wouldn't you want to dictate their foreign policy a little?

There is no nation called "islam." If you illegally do anything with foreign nationals, that's a trigger for war.

I hope you get arrested if you did that.


I have no doubt that I would

Ah, yes. More fantasy wanking about a Jihad that genocide-advocates like terrorists seem to enjoy plotting.

No more so than any of us do. I don't know if you're American, but let's pretend you are.

If a foreign nation decided to start rounding up American citizens and putting them in camps for the sole reason that they're American, wouldn't you want to dictate their foreign policy a little?

Thank you. It never was about defending their homeland was it?

Anyway, let's not mix nationality with religion shall we. Also, let's not backpeddle about "dictating foreign policy". Go down that road and DK may have a point.

Say I'm a christian, I'm not, but say I was. If a foreign nation started rounding up christians would I become a terrorist and start blowing their civilians up in airliners and on their mainland?

Err.. no. And judging by Saudi, and indonesia, nor does anyone else either.

Well, I can own a gun without having to carry it around everywhere. That's what burial cache canisters are for.

Aaaand .... very few Muslims wear turbans and go around waving AKs and Qu'ran. Also, when in public (such as at University or shopping malls) they find nice out of the way places to make salat.

You can no more tell a person is a gun owner than you can tell they're Muslim.

Hell ... in the US, most people can't tell the difference between an Arab and a Mexican!

Aaaand .... very few Muslims wear turbans and go around waving AKs and Qu'ran. Also, when in public (such as at University or shopping malls) they find nice out of the way places to make salat.

You can no more tell a person is a gun owner than you can tell they're Muslim.

Hell ... in the US, most people can't tell the difference between an Arab and a Mexican!

If the government were starting a roundup, all they would need is lists of names seized from local mosques. They could start there.

It's not like the Germans could tell someone was a Jew...

Given his sociopathic ambitions and unwavering pride in claiming amorality, I'd say he's part North Korean. Who knows? Might be a distant branch of the Kim family. Would explain a lot why he wants Muslims dead too.

Speaking of which, I guess DK's secretly sad that more people so far are showing humanity on the polls. Don't know why he really bothered with the thread in the first place.

Anyone who's read Deep Kimchi here could figure he'd be signing up for a position at Allah-schwitz. Preferably one where he could interact with the "populace" in a brutal manner.
Oh, my God! You said "Allah-schwitz"!!!!!

Can we make sweet sweet love by the moonlight?

Err.. no. And judging by Saudi, and indonesia, nor does anyone else either.
Take a guess how many of the Sept. 11th hijackers were Saudi...

I have no doubt that I would
not if you're Registered. :D

Say I'm a christian, I'm not, but say I was. If a foreign nation started rounding up christians would I become a terrorist and start blowing their civilians up in airliners and on their mainland?

I don't know. In the US, Christians have a *lot* of political sway. How would they get things done if we took that away from them?

It's all hypothetical, of course, but my automatic assumption - my knee-jerk reaction - to anyone who says they're "devoutly religious", regardless of the religion, is that they'd just assume kill me rather than let me live my godless heathen ways.

Aaaand .... very few Muslims wear turbans and go around waving AKs and Qu'ran. Also, when in public (such as at University or shopping malls) they find nice out of the way places to make salat.

You can no more tell a person is a gun owner than you can tell they're Muslim.

Hell ... in the US, most people can't tell the difference between an Arab and a Mexican!

Tangent time:

You made me think of an story I was once told. An Old guy I once worked with told how he took his grandfather to Mexico. His grandfather was one of the last "real" cowboys. He ran herds around Wyoming and a couple states most of his life.

They were in a Catina and his grandfather looked around and told him "Look at all these Japs!" My friend was stunned. He later figured out that his grandfather probably heard some news reports on a radio during WWII.

Back from the tangent:

If they come looking for you, you can hide out with me! ;)

If the government were starting a roundup, all they would need is lists of names seized from local mosques. They could start there.

Mosques don't keep a written record of who has declared shahada. I know. I've done it. Nobody wrote down my name or took my picture.

Hell ... in the US, most people can't tell the difference between an Arab and a Mexican!

thats true if this really happened i'd bet they would arrest Sikhs, Indians, and maybe even a phillipino or two

Aaaand .... very few Muslims wear turbans and go around waving AKs and Qu'ran. Also, when in public (such as at University or shopping malls) they find nice out of the way places to make salat.

You can no more tell a person is a gun owner than you can tell they're Muslim.

Hell ... in the US, most people can't tell the difference between an Arab and a Mexican!well, this is a Hypothetical situation...

so Hypothetically, they can also use this situation to sanction any illegals entering this country. :rolleyes:

Mosques don't keep a written record of who has declared shahada. I know. I've done it. Nobody wrote down my name or took my picture.

I don't know what shahada is, but exactly what the hell are you? A Jew, a muslim, a Dalek, or what?

thats true if this really happened i'd bet they would arrest Sikhs, Indians, and maybe even a phillipino or two
Don't forget the Laotian... some of them look Arab...

Oh wait! There are also WHITE Muslims... tough bind, eh?

Oh, my God! You said "Allah-schwitz"!!!!!

Can we make sweet sweet love by the moonlight?

*cough*
<.<

thats true if this really happened i'd bet they would arrest Sikhs, Indians, and maybe even a phillipino or two
... Hawaii would become much roomier... :eek: