NationStates Jolt Archive

Take a guess how many of the Sept. 11th hijackers were Saudi...

I think what he's saying is that despite the persecutionary policies of Saudi Arabia and Indonesia, no Christians have become terrorists.

I don't know what shahada is, but exactly what the hell are you? A Jew, a muslim, a Dalek, or what?

The fact that I can keep you guessing means that I will never, ever be on any of your lists.

In safety, I live.

I don't know what shahada is, but exactly what the hell are you? A Jew, a muslim, a Dalek, or what?

shahada=declaring your conversion to islam

Mosques don't keep a written record of who has declared shahada. I know. I've done it. Nobody wrote down my name or took my picture.
... that you KNOW of. ;)

The fact that I can keep you guessing means that I will never, ever be on any of your lists.

In safety, I live.

Keeping me guessing means that you'll be first on my list.

... that you KNOW of. ;)

:eek:

Keeping me guessing means that you'll be first on my list.

Which list?

Mosques don't keep a written record of who has declared shahada. I know. I've done it. Nobody wrote down my name or took my picture.


What would a mosque have a list of names for? Ah, I know...the 5-a-side football competition sign-up sheet. Clever Kimchi, eh? :rolleyes:

Yes. If the person has done nothing wrong then why should they be punished simply because of their religion.

Keeping me guessing means that you'll be first on my list.

Is that the nice list or the naughty list?

What would a mosque have a list of names for? Ah, I know...the 5-a-side football competition sign-up sheet. Clever Kimchi, eh? :rolleyes:

Damnit! I forgot to sign up this year ...

Yes, because I wouldn't let a strange man come live in my house at the drop of a hat
Desperate times call for desparate measures.

that must mean that I hate religious people so much that I want my government to herd them into camps.

By refusing to combat the laws you are complicit in them.

I'm already prejudiced against Islam, and after a few more attacks I'd probably think of Muslims the way Nazis thought of Jews.

Maybe I'm not a great guy. Maybe I'm not a good American, but at least I'm honest.
Try to rise above that bullshit.

Really?

I suppose that's why this guy was in charge of a major part of the US nuclear arsenal for some time, and held drills up to the edge of Soviet airspace, and flew bombers over Soviet cities to goad them into doing something.
No, I don't think they intended to use them. Remember what the "A" in MAD stands for.

They had to be ready to use them, but none of the powers were willing to fire the first shot.

I don't coerce him.
*shrug* Not my problem.
"Convert or go to a concentration camp" is coercion.

Real to me as well. I don't do much fraternising with the opposition.
It's not real. It's just Islamist propaganda.

See: 'I don't do fraternisation'. Otherwise, I'm merely making a point.
Your main-stream literalist muslim is not someone who I do a favour.
Oh, I may very well protect a muslim refusenik ( by definition no literalist ) - but it ends about there.
You see, when you read this hypothetical situation, you imagined a fundamentalist coming to your door, while I imagined a moderate Muslim.

I wouldn't protect a fundamentalist either.

He's the one who told me that if we aren't willing to commit genocide against all Muslims, we'll lose. Just a matter of time.
Bullshit! He, as a Muslim, wants to be killed in a genocide?

It's never going to happen. The war on terror will never be as serious as WWII, and we didn't resort to genocide then.

They're willing to do what we are not willing to do.
And that's why I support the West and oppose the Islamists.


I'm asking would you risk your life, and potentially the lives of others with you, for the life of the Muslim at the door?
They did it for people like Anne Frank in WW2.

Three, chances are, if the government initiates these actions because of major nation-threatening terrorist attacks on our nation, and not just trying to "rid the aryan race of the untermenschne", there is probably a good reason for them doing so.
Would you be one of those self-loathing Jews in Nazi Germany who believe they deserve their fate cos "the government probably has a good reason for doing it"?

Blind faith in authority.. big mistake.

I don't believe you.
This is obvious BS, unless DK likes to hang around in caves with gun-stroking men.

He came to the US in the mid-1980s.
So he's really up on the scene in the Middle East now. :rolleyes:

Is that the nice list or the naughty list?

I hope he checks it twice ... and stop watching me while I sleep!

What would a mosque have a list of names for? Ah, I know...the 5-a-side football competition sign-up sheet. Clever Kimchi, eh? :rolleyes:

Membership. Rosters for social functions.

Given his sociopathic ambitions and unwavering pride in claiming amorality, I'd say he's part North Korean. Who knows? Might be a distant branch of the Kim family. Would explain a lot why he wants Muslims dead too.

Speaking of which, I guess DK's secretly sad that more people so far are showing humanity on the polls. Don't know why he really bothered with the thread in the first place.

Anyone who's read Deep Kimchi here could figure he'd be signing up for a position at Allah-schwitz. Preferably one where he could interact with the "populace" in a brutal manner.

2,778 posts and not a single intelligent statement in the lot. So sad.

Entertaining, though. :p

Which list?

I'd venture to guess it's a list which it would be illegal for him to admit to having.

Membership. Rosters for social functions.

Mosques don't have membership. Once you become Muslim, you are a member of *all* mosques.

The only way to know is to watch the Mosque and see who goes in either daily, or at least every Friday, take pics, try to figure out who they are, and hope you're not interring a college student doing a research paper on Islam.

Yes I would hide the Muslim after having a chat with the person and I felt that they were genuinely good at heart, otherwise I would send them on their way.

If the Govt is reading this in the future and such a scenario is taking place, my real answer is no I wouldnt hide them and don't come looking around my house.

<.<
>.>

Damnit! I forgot to sign up this year ...

I can just imagine the cops scouring Longsight for "Mohammedinho" and "Jésus Saves".

I'd venture to guess it's a list which it would be illegal for him to admit to having.

I always hoped I'd make Nixon's enemies list, but alas, he died.

Which list?

The list of people who get deported if they don't moderate the hell up. Sorry, but that's just how I feel. I'd do the same with members of any other religion or faction.

Membership. Rosters for social functions.

I've been to many mosques, but I've never heard of a membership list. Unless the great purge was happening during Ramadan in which case their might be a list of local businessmen willing to donate food or money for Iftaar.

The list of people who get deported if they don't moderate the hell up.

Deported to where? I'm a natural born citizen of the United States, I vote, I pay taxes, I'm a Nakohodotsi Caddo whose father's family has had ties to what is now the State of Texas for thousands of years, my mother is an Irish Jew.

Deport me to where?

Deported to where? I'm a natural born citizen of the United States, I vote, I pay taxes, I'm a Nakohodotsi Caddo whose father's family has had ties to what is now the State of Texas for thousands of years, my mother is an Irish Jew.

Deport me to where?

One wonders how an Australian is going to deport anyone from the US anyway. Magic powers of willfull delusion?

I've been to many mosques, but I've never heard of a membership list. Unless the great purge was happening during Ramadan in which case their might be a list of local businessmen willing to donate food or money for Iftaar.
I find it interesting that after the recent UK thing, all the mosques in our area were surrounded by police for several days (for their protection, ostensibly), and the Muslims who live in my neighborhood (yes, I know who they are) had police cars sitting in front of their houses.

I also am quite sure that the mosques around here are wired for sound by the Feds, so it's probable that they know who goes in and out on a regular basis. The FBI also has fake Muslims in mosques.

The UK has even tighter monitoring of mosques.

...my mother is an Irish Jew.

Seriously?

Damn, that's really rare.

Mosques don't have membership. Once you become Muslim, you are a member of *all* mosques.

The only way to know is to watch the Mosque and see who goes in either daily, or at least every Friday, take pics, try to figure out who they are, and hope you're not interring a college student doing a research paper on Islam.the frightening thing is Keru... the gov isn't that stupid (foolish maybe, but stupid...) before such measures are instigated, you know they would watch, investigate all mosques and at the same time, get photos and perhaps even addresses of all members.

remember, such laws won't be passed overnight. there will be some prep time.

Seriously?

Damn, that's really rare.
Not as rare as I once thought.

Martin Sieff, a writer for UPI, is an Irish Jew and a good friend.

Deported to where? I'm a natural born citizen of the United States, I vote, I pay taxes, I'm a Nakohodotsi Caddo whose father's family has had ties to what is now the State of Texas for thousands of years, my mother is an Irish Jew.

Deport me to where?

I don't know. Where do muslims like to go this time of the year?

Sorry, but I just take the average muslim to be to the right of right-wing Christians. When my revolution comes, we'll see if there's time for a checks on a person-by-person basis.

Seriously?

Damn, that's really rare.

Yeah. There are only around 5,000 Jews in Ireland. My particular bloodline migrated to Ireland from Romania. Where it was before then is anyone's guess.

One wonders how an Australian is going to deport anyone from the US anyway. Magic powers of willfull delusion?

Australia rules the world, Diden't you know?

The UK has even tighter monitoring of mosques.

You're in a position to know that, are you? Wait, no, don't give away your mission.

I don't know. Where do muslims like to go this time of the year?

Beats me. Ask a Muslim. I'm not.

One wonders how an Australian is going to deport anyone from the US anyway. Magic powers of willfull delusion?
well the Hypothetical situation is for "your Country" so in your case, it would be Australia's Government.

Beats me. Ask a Muslim. I'm not.

Fine. I'll deport you to Molokai.

The list of people who get deported if they don't moderate the hell up. Sorry, but that's just how I feel. I'd do the same with members of any other religion or faction.
Let me know when you get to Fred Phelps... I wanna organize the bon-voyage/please let the door hit you in the ass on the way out party. :D

Edited: just spoke to a Robert... so his name got stuck in my head. :D

well the Hypothetical situation is for "your Country" so in your case, it would be Australia's Government.

Ah hell ... they'd deport me for constantly bringing up Priscilla.

Let me know when you get to Robert Phelps... I wanna organize the bon-voyage/please let the door hit you in the ass on the way out party. :D

Is he related to our good friend Fred? I'm deporting that entire family to Vladivostok.

Fine. I'll deport you to Molokai.

Cool! Then I could join JuNii's "so long Phelps" party.

well the Hypothetical situation is for "your Country" so in your case, it would be Australia's Government.

Yeah, but even hypothetically, Keruvalia is in a different country.

So maybe hypothetically it's GA's list of people he's going to travel to their country to, kidnap and bring them to some third country.

But then that brings up the question, which country?

Let me know when you get to Robert Phelps... I wanna organize the bon-voyage/please let the door hit you in the ass on the way out party. :D
There will be a lottery for the privilege of kicking Phelps in the ass.

Tickets are 20 dollars US.

There will be a lottery for the privilege of kicking Phelps in the ass.

Tickets are 20 dollars US.

I'll take 500 tickets.

I'd mortgage my house for a chance to kick that whole family in the ass.

I'll take 500 tickets.

I'd mortgage my house for a chance to kick that whole family in the ass.
*starts counting money*

Ah well ... just when the conversation's gettin' fun ...

I have things to do. Later, folks!

Deported to where? I'm a natural born citizen of the United States, I vote, I pay taxes, I'm a Nakohodotsi Caddo whose father's family has had ties to what is now the State of Texas for thousands of years, my mother is an Irish Jew.

Deport me to where?

To any state unfortunate enough to have been overrun by Muslims. How about Pakistan? They even speak English there. But "where" shouldn't matter to you. According to Muslims, there's only Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb.

As the recent conspiracy in England proves, Muslims are not loyal to their nations of birth, but only to their benighted creed and their fellow cultists.

There is no place in Western civilization for such people.

Fine. I'll deport you to Molokai.
LOL!

Keru... they're deporting you from the US to the US.

I'll make you welcome when you arrive on Molokai... we can probably get in some good fishing! :D

Ah well ... just when the conversation's gettin' fun ...

I have things to do. Later, folks!
When you come back, make sure you bring enough hash for everyone.

As the recent conspiracy in England proves, Muslims are not loyal to their nations of birth, but only to their benighted creed and their fellow cultists.

There is no place in Western civilization for such people.

Actually, as your continued hatred for freedom of religion proves, bigots are not loyal to their nations of birth, but only to their benighted ideology and their fellow cultists.

There is no place in Western Civilization for such people as you.

Not as rare as I once thought.

Martin Sieff, a writer for UPI, is an Irish Jew and a good friend.


Yeah. There are only around 5,000 Jews in Ireland. My particular bloodline migrated to Ireland from Romania. Where it was before then is anyone's guess.

Its between 1,000 and 2,000 today. Rare, not Tazmanian Wolf-rare.

Interesting family history.

Because I'm white. As usual.

No, because you told someone to "Fuck off", and because you then used the term "Black Panther" as a pejorative.

Get down off that crucifix and stop making excuses for your behavior; "Fuck off, white boy" would have been treated the same way.

only if he earned his keep and made sure he was out of sight

LOL!

Keru... they're deporting you from the US to the US.

I'll make you welcome when you arrive on Molokai... we can probably get in some good fishing! :D

Well, in my world, Hawaii wouldn't be in the US anymore.

Get down off that crucifix and stop making excuses for your behavior

I'm not making excuses.

"Fuck off, white boy" would have been treated the same way.

But yet, it wasn't... Hmm...

I've had enough of this conversation.

Well, in my world, Hawaii wouldn't be in the US anymore.
For most people IRL, Hawaii still isn't a state! :D

I'm not making excuses.



But yet, it wasn't... Hmm...

I've had enough of this conversation.


So have I. Since you saw fit to make a threat here http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11564378&postcount=255, and haven't bothered to point out this other supposed flame, instead of just making snide remarks, you can have a week's vacation.

Now I've looked, and I can't find anyone's having said, "Fuck you white boy." If I've missed it somehow, point it out to me, please.

Actually, as your continued hatred for freedom of religion proves, bigots are not loyal to their nations of birth, but only to their benighted ideology and their fellow cultists.

There is no place in Western Civilization for such people as you.

amen

There will be a lottery for the privilege of kicking Phelps in the ass.

Tickets are 20 dollars US.
oh hell no...

20 dollars for one kick of the ass of one member of the family.

why deny everyone the opportunity to say goodbye to Phelps. :D

-Snip-
Go Mod Power.

Anyway, sure. I'd hide the Muslim. As long as they lent a hand around the house, I'd even feed him/her and let them use my meagre posessions. Mind you, I'd probably be up in arms myself against the oppression of a people, so it mightn't be my house for much longer.

Desperate times call for desparate measures.

Dude, READ THE TOPIC. According to the scenario described, you have NO IDEA if it is actually a "desperate time" for that individual. It is totally possible that the individual in question is a government agent bent on arresting anybody who would offer sanctuary to a Muslim. It is possible he is a random psychopath who wants to eat your skin.

If you want to disagree with my judgment, that's fine. Not everybody has the same attitudes toward personal safety and security. Just don't be a doof and pretend like this is about me hating religious people or something. Especially not after I have repeatedly stated that I would react the same way no matter WHAT the religious orientation of the individual.


By refusing to combat the laws you are complicit in them.

Who said I wouldn't combat the laws? All I said is that I wouldn't invite a total stranger to live with me on his say-so. Frankly, there are far more useful ways to combat the situation that was described in this thread than by having one Muslim stay in my tiny apartment where he will likely be found within a few days. If I actually wanted to protect somebody's life and safety, probably the worst thing I could do would be to try to hide them in my apartment.

Dude, READ THE TOPIC. According to the scenario described, you have NO IDEA if it is actually a "desperate time" for that individual. It is totally possible that the individual in question is a government agent bent on arresting anybody who would offer sanctuary to a Muslim. It is possible he is a random psychopath who wants to eat your skin.

In other worse, moral courage is not as easy as some here would like to believe.

Who said I wouldn't combat the laws? All I said is that I wouldn't invite a total stranger to live with me on his say-so. Frankly, there are far more useful ways to combat the situation that was described in this thread than by having one Muslim stay in my tiny apartment where he will likely be found within a few days. If I actually wanted to protect somebody's life and safety, probably the worst thing I could do would be to try to hide them in my apartment.agreed. I wounldn't shelter any Muslim/Fugitive either... why?

my next door neighbor works for the government.

so does my downstairs neighber... whom this hypothetical muslim must pass to get to my door... which is a couple of... heck, not even a couple of feet away from my neighbors door.

add to that the fact that the surrounding buildings (all open btw) house retirees, so someone is always watching. next to our area is a resturant that cops like to frequent... and there is a civic center that has an unobstructed view of my front door.

so if this poor muslim actually made it to my door... he won't be staying long.

and that's not even counting the size of my apartment.

In other worse, moral courage is not as easy as some here would like to believe.
*Shrug* If that's your definition of "moral courage," that's your business. Personally, I don't think I'd be doing anybody a favor by trying to hide them in my apartment, and I think I'd be unnecessarily endangering myself and my mate by doing so. If you want to label that as "moral cowardice," it won't bother me in the least.

*Shrug* If that's your definition of "moral courage," that's your business. Personally, I don't think I'd be doing anybody a favor by trying to hide them in my apartment, and I think I'd be unnecessarily endangering myself and my mate by doing so. If you want to label that as "moral cowardice," it won't bother me in the least.

I don't count it as moral cowardice. But some here might. After all, idealism is easy to talk about, and very difficult sometimes to do.

I don't count it as moral cowardice. But some here might. After all, idealism is easy to talk about, and very difficult sometimes to do.
"Yeah, I'd go over to Iraq and teach those terrorists at thing or three."
"Fine, here's your gun... go on take it."
"err.... yeah, I would... but I got this... er... medical condition... " :D

I don't count it as moral cowardice. But some here might. After all, idealism is easy to talk about, and very difficult sometimes to do.
I don't consider idealism to be a synonym for "moral courage." Idealists often do the most harm to the causes they support in spirit. Idealism, if untempered by pragmatism, is significantly more deadly than cynicism.

"Yeah, I'd go over to Iraq and teach those terrorists at thing or three."
"Fine, here's your gun... go on take it."
"err.... yeah, I would... but I got this... er... medical condition... " :D
Already been there twice now.

*Shrug* If that's your definition of "moral courage," that's your business. Personally, I don't think I'd be doing anybody a favor by trying to hide them in my apartment, and I think I'd be unnecessarily endangering myself and my mate by doing so. If you want to label that as "moral cowardice," it won't bother me in the least.
Hell, you'd apparently have stayed in the country, which is more than I can say. Some shit like that goes down, I'm outta here.

Hell, you'd apparently have stayed in the country, which is more than I can say. Some shit like that goes down, I'm outta here.
Heh. Honestly, the reason I assumed I would still be in the country is because I think this kind of shit could go down faster than anybody realizes.

Had you asked me five years ago if my country could engage in torture with the full knowledge of the public, I would have told you that you were a crazy person. Had you asked me three years ago if the President could stand in front of national media and calmly announce that he has no intention of obeying the law, I would have laughed in your face. Had you asked me two years ago if my government would leave its people to die needlessly in the aftermath of a natural disaster, I would have deemed it impossible.

Ask me today if it is possible that my country could herd Muslims into camps as described in this thread. I'll tell you "no," but I will do it with a sinking feeling in my gut. What will I think next year?

Ask me today if it is possible that my country could herd Muslims into camps as described in this thread. I'll tell you "no," but I will do it with a sinking feeling in my gut. What will I think next year?
Don't say I didn't tell you so.

So have I. Since you saw fit to make a threat here http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11564378&postcount=255, and haven't bothered to point out this other supposed flame, instead of just making snide remarks, you can have a week's vacation.

Now I've looked, and I can't find anyone's having said, "Fuck you white boy." If I've missed it somehow, point it out to me, please.

After consultation with other members of the team, this has been upgraded to a deletion. We take threats seriously, folks.

The request for the other flame being pointed out still stands.

Heh. Honestly, the reason I assumed I would still be in the country is because I think this kind of shit could go down faster than anybody realizes.

Had you asked me five years ago if my country could engage in torture with the full knowledge of the public, I would have told you that you were a crazy person. Had you asked me three years ago if the President could stand in front of national media and calmly announce that he has no intention of obeying the law, I would have laughed in your face. Had you asked me two years ago if my government would leave its people to die needlessly in the aftermath of a natural disaster, I would have deemed it impossible.

Ask me today if it is possible that my country could herd Muslims into camps as described in this thread. I'll tell you "no," but I will do it with a sinking feeling in my gut. What will I think next year?
If life under Dubya has taught me anything, it's that it can always be worse. Hell, I'm almost misty for John Ashcroft. Almost.

Deported to where? I'm a natural born citizen of the United States, I vote, I pay taxes, I'm a Nakohodotsi Caddo whose father's family has had ties to what is now the State of Texas for thousands of years, my mother is an Irish Jew.

Deport me to where?


The only place someone with that lineage would fit in- Sesame Street. :p

Nope. My personal safety and well being takes precedent.

Ask me today if it is possible that my country could herd Muslims into camps as described in this thread. I'll tell you "no," but I will do it with a sinking feeling in my gut. What will I think next year?

And 10 years ago you would have called whoever asked you that a lunatic.

To any state unfortunate enough to have been overrun by Muslims. How about Pakistan? They even speak English there. But "where" shouldn't matter to you. According to Muslims, there's only Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb.

As the recent conspiracy in England proves, Muslims are not loyal to their nations of birth, but only to their benighted creed and their fellow cultists.

There is no place in Western civilization for such people.

This post reminds me of that short story by William Burroughs, about the man who taught his asshole how to talk....

Yes. And help them escape. Much as I would (almost) anyone similarly caught up in such a ridiculous situation.

And 10 years ago you would have called whoever asked you that a lunatic.
People on this forum for the past year have called me a lunatic for saying that it will happen.

Watch it happen.

Already been there twice now.

I still don't believe you.

To any state unfortunate enough to have been overrun by Muslims. How about Pakistan? They even speak English there. But "where" shouldn't matter to you. According to Muslims, there's only Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb.
As the recent conspiracy in England proves, Muslims are not loyal to their nations of birth, but only to their benighted creed and their fellow cultists. There is no place in Western civilization for such people.

This post reminds me of that short story by William Burroughs, about the man who taught his asshole how to talk....

no kidding this is without doubt the worst straw man i've ever seen

People on this forum for the past year have called me a lunatic for saying that it will happen.

Watch it happen.

Willing to place a bet on how long it is before it does?

5 years at the maximum.

I still don't believe you.
I have a DD 214 that would make you believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD_214

So I'm guessing DK voted 'No'? This doesn't surprise me.

I voted no too.

I don't take strange people into my home, regardless of their religious affiliation.

IF it happens I would certainly support Muslims, maybe even the Fanatical ones.

Willing to place a bet on how long it is before it does?

5 years at the maximum.


I hope not, I live in Dearborn MI, smack-dab in the middle of "raghead territory" as you would say

I wouldn't be surprised if there were riots and I wouldn't disapprove of them

I have a DD 214 that would make you believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD_214

No, you don't.

IF it happens I would certainly support Muslims, maybe even the Fanatical ones.

Give me a break.

If you say maybe, you do already.

I hope not, I live in Dearborn MI, smack-dab in the middle of "raghead territory" as you would say

I wouldn't be surprised if there were riots and I wouldn't disapprove of them

Riots by whom? The Muslim community? A misjudgement, were it to occur, I would venture, since they would be further villified.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were riots and I wouldn't disapprove of them

Do you own property?

IF it happens I would certainly support Muslims, maybe even the Fanatical ones.

Of course you would.

Fucking ingrate.

Much as I am loath to raise the point, if they are genuinely in favour of peace, they would submit.

Give me a break.

If you say maybe, you do already.

What? :confused: I don't support them now, but if such a thing would happen I would aid anyone, even the Fanatical ones.

Of course you would.

Fucking ingrate.

Much as I am loath to raise the point, if they are genuinely in favour of peace, they would submit.

Why do they need to submit? We shouldn't we submit? :rolleyes: That's just stupid to say.

Much as I am loath to raise the point, if they are genuinely in favour of peace, they would submit.
So I take it you would be first in line for a possible life time in prison with no way to win your release (and very probably no rights judging by the current trend) if the finger was pointed at your religion/ country?

Why do they need to submit? We shouldn't we submit? :rolleyes: That's just stupid to say.

A little notion of period of tenure. The Muslim communties in the UK are, at the most fifty years old. Hence, in the context of the UK, they must defer to us for loyalty.

Do you own property?

yup

So I take it you would be first in line for a possible life time in prison with no way to win your release (and very probably no rights judging by the current trend) if the finger was pointed at your religion/ country?

Nope. England is completely innocent.;)

The premise is that, for all its fundament, the Islamic community appears to aiding little in its attempts to counter Islamic fundamentalism. However, they have committed themselves to its defeat.

What? :confused: I don't support them now, but if such a thing would happen I would aid anyone, even the Fanatical ones.


The fanatical ones want to mutilate your girlfriends clitoris and make her wear a garbage bag with eye sockets cut out.

They also condone the murder of children and homosexuals.

There is no condition under which you should let them in your home or aid them.

Of course you would.

Fucking ingrate.

Much as I am loath to raise the point, if they are genuinely in favour of peace, they would submit.

Just like the Jews who wanted peace should have "submitted" to the Nazis, eh?

yup


So while these rioters are tearing up your property, you'd sit back and root them on?

A little notion of period of tenure. The Muslim communties in the UK are, at the most fifty years old. Hence, in the context of the UK, they must defer to us for loyalty.

And in a global context, moder western civilisation is far younger than Islamic fundamentalism. Therefore, it is we who should submit, by your logic.

Just like the Jews who wanted peace should have "submitted" to the Nazis, eh?

There were Fundamentalist Jews in Nazi Germany?

The premise is that, for all its fundament, the Islamic community appears to aiding little in its attempts to counter Islamic fundamentalism. However, they have committed themselves to its defeat.

Spend any time in a mosque recently?
Spent any time listening to the community leaders?
The kids on the street talking?
The reports from police on sources in the community and co-operation at a community level?

And in a global context,

Global context?

Some people still believe in sovereign nations.

The fanatical ones want to mutilate your girlfriends clitoris and make her wear a garbage bag with eye sockets cut out.

They also condone the murder of children and homosexuals.

There is no condition under which you should let them in your home or aid them.

I will decide for myself who I welcome in my house, thank you. I repeat, it is just one of my basic principles, one who needs help because he is in danger or if he or she is prosecuted I will help that person, no matter what your beliefs are. Would you like it when you are in life danger and you go to someones house to ask for help and the person says:"No way, get the f*ck outta here!"

There were Fundamentalist Jews in Nazi Germany?

They call them Zionists :rolleyes:

Spend any time in a mosque recently?
Spent any time listening to the community leaders?
The kids on the street talking?
The reports from police on sources in the community and co-operation at a community level?

Do you have a father who works in the police in counter-operations, and spent all day Wednesday controlling police operations at Stansted? Do you have his confidence?

I should imagine not.

They call them Zionists :rolleyes:

Who calls them Zionists? You do know where that phrase originated from, right?

You made it about "real friendship."
Yes, because DK stated that he wouldn't give A Muslim asylum even though he has Muslim friends. I challenged his choice of the word "friend".

You decided to claim that somebody isn't a "real friend" unless they are willing to put their family members' lives in danger for the sake of their buddy.
That is simply not true. I never stated anything like that at all. If the Muslim is a friend, I am assuming that they are not criminals.

If you now recognize that you overstated your case, that's fine, and we can let it go.
I didn't overstate my case at all.

But don't pretend like I went off in some bizarre direction when I directly responded to what you posted.
You didn't respond directly to what I posted, and yes you did, to use your words, go off in "some bizarre direction", by criminalizing this "friend".

If a friend of mine comes to me seeking sanctuary from persecution due to his religion, then I will provide that safe haven. DK stated that he wouldn't.

They call them Zionists :rolleyes:

There were Zionists in Nazi Germany?

And in a global context, moder western civilisation is far younger than Islamic fundamentalism. Therefore, it is we who should submit, by your logic.

No. If we construe Western civilisation as, primarily, derived from Barbaro-Christian monarchies, and establish the first crusade as the facilitator of fundamentalism, then you sir have a five century disparity to explain.....

Fuck simply hiding them, I'd encourage them and join in a revolution if that shit happened.

Nazi Germany will NOT happen again. I love America too much to let it crash to the bottom of the genocidal and ignorant barrel.

Who calls them Zionists? You do know where that phrase originated from, right?

I know what it means.

Somone who believes the Jews need a homeland (which I can perfectly understand and something I support). Most Zionist in the past have called for a Jewish homeland in Palestina.

There were Zionists in Nazi Germany?

I think every jewish Person is a Zionist, if you follow exactly what a Zionist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism) is.

Fuck simply hiding them, I'd encourage them and join in a revolution if that shit happened.

Nazi Germany will NOT happen again. I love America too much to let it crash to the bottom of the genocidal and ignorant barrel.

Armed resistance just gives them more of an excuse to take away their rights.

I think every jewish Person is a Zionist, if you follow exactly what a Zionist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism) is.


Are you mad?

Not every Jew wants a homeland in the Middle East.

There were Fundamentalist Jews in Nazi Germany?

Probably, yes. There are fundamentalists of every religion pretty much everywhere.

The point, however, is that we are talking about rounding people of a given religion up and putting them in camps. This sounds an awful lot like one Nazi Germany....

You say that someone who wants peace would simply submit to such treatment.

Armed resistance just gives them more of an excuse to take away their rights.

Right, so just cowering in the corner and allowing the government to recreate the holocaust is a much better option.

Nope, sorry, I'm going with plan A - get a gun, get a bomb, kill some politicians.

Are you mad?

Not every Jew wants a homeland in the Middle East.

Some firends call me mad, yes :p

Most of them want a Homeland in the Middle East. Of course there were Jews who were against this, but there are always people who disagree

Right, so just cowering in the corner and allowing the government to recreate the holocaust is a much better option.

Nope, sorry, I'm going with plan A - get a gun, get a bomb, kill some politicians.


sorry but there are forms of action other than terrorism...

Example: The british empire was brought to its knees by India not through violence but by simple refusing to submit to their authority

besides your argument is an appeal to fear that is a logical fallacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_fear

I will decide for myself who I welcome in my house, thank you. I repeat, it is just one of my basic principles, one who needs help because he is in danger or if he or she is prosecuted I will help that person, no matter what your beliefs are. Would you like it when you are in life danger and you go to someones house to ask for help and the person says:"No way, get the f*ck outta here!"

You said you would aid fundamentalist Muslims.

I don't condone the murder of homosexuals and the mangling and oppression of women.

I don't feel they are entitled to any help and that if you aid one, you are one.

Sorry, but I’m not getting sent to prison for twenty years. The guy's out of luck if he turns up at my place. I've got a me to look out for, and I'm the only me I've got.
All the rest of you can talk big with your sanctimonious bullshit, but you know deep down that if this ever occurred, you’d do the same.

You're damned right I'd take one in. Hell, I might even participate in a resistance to free Muslims who are interned.

I personally don't think much of their religion, but nobody deserves to have their civil rights revoked simply because a lot of their co-religionists are terrorists and the more fundamentalist among them think it's OK to stone women and kill children for the sake of family "honor."

Do you have a father who works in the police in counter-operations, and spent all day Wednesday controlling police operations at Stansted? Do you have his confidence?
No, my father doesn't work for the police. And no, I can't imagine why your father would have me in his confidence.
Bad luck being stuck in Stansted. I imagine he was pretty annoyed by the whole thing.

On the other hand, I see/hear a lot of other information from a wide variety of sources, both within and without the public domain, on a regular basis.

I like to be informed.

You're damned right I'd take one in. Hell, I might even participate in a resistance to free Muslims who are interned.

I personally don't think much of their religion, but nobody deserves to have their civil rights revoked simply because a lot of their co-religionists are terrorists and the more fundamentalist among them think it's OK to stone women and kill children for the sake of family "honor."

You have a pretty ironic name for your nation. Your response in this thread is drastically less Kahanist than from Deep Kimchi and the rest of his "Jew Crew" compatriots.

So you'd question Hitler?
That does not seem very effective, one way or the other.
Ditto for Staling.


Flee or fight.
Obey or destroy.

No wishy-washy inbetweens.

Would you Obey Hitler?

And yes, I would hide anyone on the run from unjust persecution.

No, my father doesn't work for the police. And no, I can't imagine why your father would have me in his confidence.
Bad luck being stuck in Stansted. I imagine he was pretty annoyed by the whole thing.

On the other hand, I see/hear a lot of other information from a wide variety of sources, both within and without the public domain, on a regular basis.

I like to be informed.

Yeah. He did say they ended playing spot the terrorist/longest beard/ ugliest woman for several hours.....:D

From what I infer, the Muslim community in the UK is, if not overtly so, dedicated to co-existence and the negation of fundamentalism. However, there is also a significant proportion of the communities who endorse fundamentalism.

Would you Obey Hitler?

And yes, I would hide anyone on the run from unjust persecution.

Yes, assuming it was of benefit to myself in doing so.

sorry but there are forms of action other than terrorism...

Example: The british empire was brought to its knees by India not through violence but by simple refusing to submit to their authority

besides your argument is an appeal to fear that is a logical fallacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_fear

I'm fairly certain that if you told the nazis you were protesting them by not eating, they'd shoot you, or let you starve. Whichever was more entertaining for them at the moment.

I don't see how this situation would be any different. In an America where America is no longer America, where there's no due process, where civil liberties are a thing of the past, where the government has no checks and balances, where the military is rounding up a group of people to send them to camps where they may or may not be brutally slaughtered, I'd feel a whole lot more confident in my defiance plan if I had a gun than if I had nothing but words to a deaf ear.

You're damned right I'd take one in. Hell, I might even participate in a resistance to free Muslims who are interned.

I personally don't think much of their religion, but nobody deserves to have their civil rights revoked simply because a lot of their co-religionists are terrorists and the more fundamentalist among them think it's OK to stone women and kill children for the sake of family "honor."
You'd be willing to be sent to prison for twenty years? Hope you like butt rape.

You'd be willing to be sent to prison for twenty years? Hope you like butt rape.

I think in an America such as this, butt-rape in prison is the least of your worries if you're a protester.

Yeah. He did say they ended playing spot the terrorist/longest beard/ ugliest woman for several hours.....:D

From what I infer, the Muslim community in the UK is, if not overtly so, dedicated to co-existence and the negation of fundamentalism. However, there is also a significant proportion of the communities who endorse fundamentalism.

And in Deep Kimchi's wet dream scenario, all the Muslims will be rounded up sent off to Allah-schwitz, whether they're Islamist or moderate, whether or not they sympathize with terrorists or support them, all simply because they're Muslim.

And while all of that is going on, Bin Ladin and Ahmedinejad will be watching on the TV and having a good wankfest like Bob Crane and John Carpenter.

Yes, assuming it was of benefit to myself in doing so.

I'm gonna go ahead and hope you're not a Christian. I'm gonna continue that line of thought and hope you're not a voting American, as well.

Someone I don't know? There are Muslims I know I might help to hide because I think they're valuable people, but strangers? Not a chance.

People I don't know die every day.

I'm fairly certain that if you told the nazis you were protesting them by not eating, they'd shoot you, or let you starve. Whichever was more entertaining for them at the moment.

I don't see how this situation would be any different. In an America where America is no longer America, where there's no due process, where civil liberties are a thing of the past, where the government has no checks and balances, where the military is rounding up a group of people to send them to camps where they may or may not be brutally slaughtered, I'd feel a whole lot more confident in my defiance plan if I had a gun than if I had nothing but words to a deaf ear.

read the OP and the first 4 pages of this thread he did not say america becomes the 4th reich he said nothing about martial law or checks and balances or genocide or due process or anything you just said if you don't know what we are debating then don't post.

And in Deep Kimchi's wet dream scenario, all the Muslims will be rounded up sent off to Allah-schwitz, whether they're Islamist or moderate, whether or not they sympathize with terrorists or support them, all simply because they're Muslim.

And while all of that is going on, Bin Ladin and Ahmedinejad will be watching on the TV and having a good wankfest like Bob Crane and John Carpenter.

A bit of false characterisation I would venture.

However, it is foreseeable that such a notion could be justified and employed.

Incidentally, is this Gauthier from AA606?

I think every jewish Person is a Zionist, if you follow exactly what a Zionist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism) is.

Convienent that that whole article was just sourced yesterday.

Ever hear of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?

Do some reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

I'm gonna go ahead and hope you're not a Christian. I'm gonna continue that line of thought and hope you're not a voting American, as well.

Aren't you a lucky hick?

Determinedly atheist English boy.

Yes, assuming it was of benefit to myself in doing so.

Well, it's nice to know that you would slaughter millions of innocents and get away unscathed instead of fighting against an unjust government. Way to look out for others.

ooc: sorry... Ravia, TGs and MSN

Well, it's nice to know that you would slaughter millions of innocents and get away unscathed instead of fighting against an unjust government. Way to look out for others.

It hardly sounds an undesirable state of affairs. I have no compunction in complaining, I would merely like to be alive and comfortable while doing so.

read the OP and the first 4 pages of this thread he did not say america becomes the 4th reich he said nothing about martial law or checks and balances or genocide or due process or anything you just said if you don't know what we are debating then don't post.

Read a history book, if you don't know what a slippery slope and causality are then don't post.

1. How would they pass legislation on such a thing? They couldn't. They would have to declare martial law and force it upon the populace with military strength and threats.

2. If you're being sent somewhere without your consent by your government simply because they THINK you're a muslim (you could be an arab Christian and still be sent there because they wouldn't believe you), that's a violation of civil liberty and due process. They both go out the window.

Fuck you. Honestly. Think with your god damned head about what you're saying - "They're just collecting them into 'camps' so they can keep an eye on them all at once. Nothing violent will happen in the course of the captures or while in captivity. When's American Gladiators coming on?"

I hope the ghost of Bill Hicks punches you in the face when you sleep tonight.

I think in an America such as this, butt-rape in prison is the least of your worries if you're a protester.
No, the least of your worries is that the paint that you're using on your corny signs isn't baby seal safe or something.
I would say butt rape rates pretty high on the worries range, just above savage beating and below being tortured for information.

Aren't you a lucky hick?

Determinedly atheist English boy.

I'm no hick. I'm not even a Christian, I'm an offshoot of the religion. Regardless, you have no respect for others or morality - you're a horrible example of athiesm. If you don't watch out some dumbass could come along and make a really good point about how athiesm caused you to be a dick. They'd be wrong, but damn it would be a good point.

Well, it's nice to know that you would slaughter millions of innocents and get away unscathed instead of fighting against an unjust government. Way to look out for others.
News flash, when you’re dead, those millions of lives aren’t going to mean a fucking thing. In fact, nothing will, so you know what? Go save them, I don’t give a shit, but I’ve got a lot more fun to have with this one and only life I’ve got.

ooc: sorry... Ravia, TGs and MSN

Check your TGs. MSN is malfunctioning at the moment.

No, the least of your worries is that the paint that you're using on your corny signs isn't baby seal safe or something.
I would say butt rape rates pretty high on the worries range, just above savage beating and below being tortured for information.

Well considering the state of affairs in the civilian area, I'd do my best to (if sent to jail, which I doubt, because it'd be more fitting in this scenario just to shoot me on the spot) try to form some kind of alliance with the prisoners and make a jailbreak. Anarchy is better than ordered death.

News flash, when you’re dead, those millions of lives aren’t going to mean a fucking thing. In fact, nothing will, so you know what? Go save them, I don’t give a shit, but I’ve got a lot more fun to have with this one and only life I’ve got.

Good to know you care about your fellow man. Prick. There are worse things than death, and being a sheep who allows others to be killed and wronged is way above it.

News flash, when you’re dead, those millions of lives aren’t going to mean a fucking thing. In fact, nothing will, so you know what? Go save them, I don’t give a shit, but I’ve got a lot more fun to have with this one and only life I’ve got.

Well, have fun, then. I guess arroganance and ignorance are two problems that will never go away.

Well considering the state of affairs in the civilian area, I'd do my best to (if sent to jail, which I doubt, because it'd be more fitting in this scenario just to shoot me on the spot) try to form some kind of alliance with the prisoners and make a jailbreak. Anarchy is better than ordered death.
What are you, some sort of Kennedy? It’s very unlikely that you have the charisma to pull that off.

Well, have fun, then. I guess arroganance and ignorance are two problems that will never go away.
I will openly admit to being arrogant, but I fail to see how my position is ignorant.

What are you, some sort of Kennedy? It’s very unlikely that you have the charisma to pull that off.

Wanna bet? No. No, you don't.

I can say with a right mind that I wouldn't think twice about creating a rebellion and destroying the entire government if something like this were to occur. I can also say with the same mind that I know I could pull it off if I didn't die first.

I will openly admit to being arrogant, but I fail to see how my position is ignorant.

Arrogance -is- ignorance. It's the supposition that you're automatically better than someone else just because they're not you. It's -very- ignorant.

I'm no hick. I'm not even a Christian, I'm an offshoot of the religion. Regardless, you have no respect for others or morality - you're a horrible example of athiesm. If you don't watch out some dumbass could come along and make a really good point about how athiesm caused you to be a dick. They'd be wrong, but damn it would be a good point.

"Dick". You employ the word "dick" yet maintain to be no hick?

The connotations are incorrect in any case. Arrogant? Yes. "dick"? no.

Indeed, I am no example of atheism. My Atheism is inconsequential to me, or my idiosyncrasies, nor would I have stated it had you not obliged me to.

From what I infer, the Muslim community in the UK is, if not overtly so, dedicated to co-existence and the negation of fundamentalism. However, there is also a significant proportion of the communities who endorse fundamentalism.

True. It is worth noting that the 'signifcant' portion is not proportionally or numerically large, although it is still 'significant'. However, the proportion of those who endorse fundamentalism and those who specifically endorse what the West would view as terrorism is, fortuitously, very low.

Sadly, the social practices encouraged in Britain, from the social stigma of being a 'whistle-blower' to leaving law-breakers to the police to handle make things difficult to outright fear of retribution. Also, unless there are trouble makers within a particular community it is hard for that community to provide 'active outcomes' rather than 'active drivers'. Unfortunately, outcomes become more important with each terrorist scare or each new piece of legislation and this can lead to communities with nothing to hide feeling as if they are being unfairly persecuted. This can (and, sadly, does in some cases) lead to a widening division between those who advocate co-operation and those who see no value in helping those 'attacking' them and instead choose a passive protest by non co-operation. This in itself splits a community still further and can lead to a spiral of introversion and defensiveness that can manifest itself in individual acts that would have been completely out of character a few years ago.
And this isn't even scratching the surface.

I can't even begin to imagine how difficult your father's job is. He has my respect and thanks.

Good to know you care about your fellow man. Prick. There are worse things than death, and being a sheep who allows others to be killed and wronged is way above it.
please keep the insults down. :)

realize this. the muslim man coming to YOUR door in YOUR country (the OP did not specify America or any country, so assume it's the one you call Home.) is placing you and your family at risk by asking for help. so if you consider the act of looking out for yourself a selfish act, then that Persecuted man who knocked on your door is also selfish, since he/she is putting their own well being above the fact that they are now endangering you.

News flash, when you’re dead, those millions of lives aren’t going to mean a fucking thing. In fact, nothing will, so you know what? Go save them, I don’t give a shit, but I’ve got a lot more fun to have with this one and only life I’ve got.

Thank you from the bottom of my "dicky atheist" heart.:)

You have a pretty ironic name for your nation. Your response in this thread is drastically less Kahanist than from Deep Kimchi and the rest of his "Jew Crew" compatriots.
Gets even funnier. Explains the name. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11329770&postcount=5)

You really want irony, look me up on the NS General profiles stickied in the General forum.

BTW, Kahanists generally only care about Israel and expelling Arabs from there, many of them could care less about Muslims elsewhere. Others, like JTF, refer to all Muslims as "Arab Muslim Nazis."

True. It is worth noting that the 'signifcant' portion is not proportionally or numerically large, although it is still 'significant'. However, the proportion of those who endorse fundamentalism and those who specifically endorse what the West would view as terrorism is, fortuitously, very low.

Sadly, the social practices encouraged in Britain, from the social stigma of being a 'whistle-blower' to leaving law-breakers to the police to handle make things difficult to outright fear of retribution. Also, unless there are trouble makers within a particular community it is hard for that community to provide 'active outcomes' rather than 'active drivers'. Unfortunately, outcomes become more important with each terrorist scare or each new piece of legislation and this can lead to communities with nothing to hide feeling as if they are being unfairly persecuted. This can (and, sadly, does in some cases) lead to a widening division between those who advocate co-operation and those who see no value in helping those 'attacking' them and instead choose a passive protest by non co-operation. This in itself splits a community still further and can lead to a spiral of introversion and defensiveness that can manifest itself in individual acts that would have been completely out of character a few years ago.
And this isn't even scratching the surface.

I can't even begin to imagine how difficult your father's job is. He has my respect and thanks.


Its not that bad. He shouts at people and reads reports.:D

Wanna bet? No. No, you don't.

I can say with a right mind that I wouldn't think twice about creating a rebellion and destroying the entire government if something like this were to occur. I can also say with the same mind that I know I could pull it off if I didn't die first.
And I’m the arrogant one? At least I’m not naïve as well.
Arrogance -is- ignorance. It's the supposition that you're automatically better than someone else just because they're not you. It's -very- ignorant.
I don’t know where you pulled that shit out of, but I would make the “supposition” that it was your ass. Arrogance is an admittedly unhealthy or overbearing pride.
If your definition were true, than your previous statement would be redundant, but it was merely inaccurate, directed towards me anyway.

please keep the insults down. :)

realize this. the muslim man coming to YOUR door in YOUR country (the OP did not specify America or any country, so assume it's the one you call Home.) is placing you and your family at risk by asking for help. so if you consider the act of looking out for yourself a selfish act, then that Persecuted man who knocked on your door is also selfish, since he/she is putting their own well being above the fact that they are now endangering you.

True, but they are understandably begging for help - their rights are being violated, whereas you would just be saving your own ass.

It's a two-pronged "this is pissing me off" situation, because not only is it destroying the lives and rights of these people, it's destroying the country you live in and everything it holds sacred, unless you live in Iran, in which case this would be a bit of an awkward situation!

I am assuming it's my country - America - and taking it personally. Also, taking it personally that there are those who wouldn't stand up for innocent lives with their own and thinking it's okay to not do so.

Thank you from the bottom of my "dicky atheist" heart.:)
Thanks from you is hardly something I could give two flying fucks about, but you're welcome all the same.

I think every jewish Person is a Zionist, if you follow exactly what a Zionist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism) is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ac.zionistposter.jpg#file
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ac.zionistposter.jpg#file
Does this remind people of the aryan-German-working-man posters? :D

Convienent that that whole article was just sourced yesterday.

Ever hear of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?

Do some reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion
But you dont actually beleive in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, do you?

I mean, you know its fake, right?

As an American Muslim, I guess I wouldn't be much help in this situation (you know, because I would be one of the people hiding). But I doubt that this would ever happen.

Nah not really, because if I hide one then me and my family may be seen as terrorist symptatizers, and I gotta think about my family first.

And I’m the arrogant one? At least I’m not naïve as well.

I don’t know where you pulled that shit out of, but I would make the “supposition” that it was your ass. Arrogance is an admittedly unhealthy or overbearing pride.
If your definition were true, than your previous statement would be redundant, but it was merely inaccurate, directed towards me anyway.

I'm not naiive, I'm just not hopelessly selfish.

The definition fits - Webster probably doesn't approve, but socially, it fits.

Thanks from you is hardly something I could give two flying fucks about, but you're welcome all the same.

Predictable, but amusing.:)

What the fuck have I done to you, actually?

Yes, I know I would. I have had Islamic friends and they have never meant my country any harm. Islam does not encourage the killing of human beings, whether they are considered 'infidal' or not.

Read a history book, if you don't know what a slippery slope and causality are then don't post.

1. How would they pass legislation on such a thing? They couldn't. They would have to declare martial law and force it upon the populace with military strength and threats.

2. If you're being sent somewhere without your consent by your government simply because they THINK you're a muslim (you could be an arab Christian and still be sent there because they wouldn't believe you), that's a violation of civil liberty and due process. They both go out the window.

Fuck you. Honestly. Think with your god damned head about what you're saying - "They're just collecting them into 'camps' so they can keep an eye on them all at once. Nothing violent will happen in the course of the captures or while in captivity. When's American Gladiators coming on?"

I hope the ghost of Bill Hicks punches you in the face when you sleep tonight.


the slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

1. yes they could the only thing that gets legislation to pass is a majority HR and Senate vote if you think its impossible for somthing like this to happen you are naive.

2.who ever said they won't have a trial to determine whether or not someone is a muslim? no one it would still be a violation of freedom of religion amendment 1

dropping f-bombs doesn't make your argument any more valid, you are flaming stop or get banned

you seem to think i approve of this racial\religious discrimination, I don't,but violence only begets more violence.

besides you are facing the most powerful military in the world with small arms, alone, and unaided what are you expecting to achieve?

all you will do is cause your own death and give the U.S. gov't a case for declaring martial law.

Nah not really, because if I hide one then me and my family may be seen as terrorist symptatizers, and I gotta think about my family first.

I feel sorry for your family, what with being related to a selfish demon.

I feel sorry for your family, what with being related to a selfish demon.

Hey, I don't need to be thrown into a prison myself. Sorry for putting my family in front of some random stranger.

On the condition of Conversion.
Jesus Christ is Awesome. Whatever. Where's your basement?

I feel sorry for your family, what with being related to a selfish demon.

To be fair, it's a hard decision. How many Germans hid Jews during World War II? Not too many, I think, because some Germans likely feared being sent to the camps themselves.

That's not to say that refusing is the right decision, of course.

It's not to say however I wouldn't give the arabs some money to get out of the country though. In cash though, for obvious reasons.

True, but they are understandably begging for help - their rights are being violated, whereas you would just be saving your own ass.

It's a two-pronged "this is pissing me off" situation, because not only is it destroying the lives and rights of these people, it's destroying the country you live in and everything it holds sacred, unless you live in Iran, in which case this would be a bit of an awkward situation!

I am assuming it's my country - America - and taking it personally. Also, taking it personally that there are those who wouldn't stand up for innocent lives with their own and thinking it's okay to not do so.
but it is their choice. if you read my post, you will realize that I must refuse, because of where I live. to invite him in is to give him false hope... a worse thing to do than turning him away. there are other forms of protest... say, if they were required to wear a cresent badge, then start making cresent badges and hand em out to everyone. shutting down businesses by not working also... well works.

You cannot force someone to risk their lives (and the lives of their families) just because you think they should. True freedom is allowing others to think of themselves and those close to them without thinking less of them.

I would rather say that those that say "no, they wouldn't" still outnumber those that say, "I would turn that muslim in."

Shame on you all, that voted No in this poll. You fucking heartless bastards. What is the difference between you and the Nazis?:(

Arrogance -is- ignorance. It's the supposition that you're automatically better than someone else just because they're not you. It's -very- ignorant.
Arrogance isn't necessarily baseless.

Shame on you all, that voted No in this poll. You fucking heartless bastards. What is the difference between you and the Nazis?:(
I'm not actively hunting anyone down. I'm just staying out of the way.

I'm not actively hunting anyone down. I'm just staying out of the way.
That is actively being part of the problem.

I feel sorry for your family, what with being related to a selfish demon.
realize that the decision not to harbor a fugitive may be to protect his family.

I feel sorry for those families put in danger because one person feels he/she should place the safety of a stranger over them.

All that needs to happen for evil to succeed is for good people to stay out of the way. Maybe it's a cliche, but it's true.

This poll shows us just how many people would go along with a fascist system... until their time came to be lead to the gas chambers. I second shaming anyone who voted "No" on this poll. In the event of this scenario, i would probably be doing more than just hiding an "undesirable." Revolution Calling!

All that needs to happen for evil to succeed is for good people to stay out of the way. Maybe it's a cliche, but it's true.

Its not cliche at all it is proven fact

Predictable, but amusing.:)

What the fuck have I done to you, actually?
I don't like you. You're British, yet you are not a hippy of some sort. This confuses and infuriates me.
I'm not naiive, I'm just not hopelessly selfish.

The definition fits - Webster probably doesn't approve, but socially, it fits.
Does it know? You're just as arrogant, just in the idealistic, sanctimonious self-proclaimed "hero" way.

Its not cliche at all it is proven fact

Well, yeah, I agree. The wording makes it sound cliche, is all I was saying.

I don't like you. You're British, yet you are not a hippy of some sort. This confuses and infuriates me.


:confused:

meh?

All that needs to happen for evil to succeed is for good people to stay out of the way. Maybe it's a cliche, but it's true.
or for good people to do evil, convinced that it's for the greater good.

I'm not actively hunting anyone down. I'm just staying out of the way.

Precisely. What sodding difference will the hidning of one Muslim make anyway? A whole family of otherwise innocent and respectable citizens dying too? Bloody good logic that.

All that needs to happen for evil to succeed is for good people to stay out of the way. Maybe it's a cliche, but it's true.
"They say, 'Evil prevails when good men fail to act.' What they ought to say is, 'Evil prevails.'" ~ Yuri Orlov, Lord of War

“Evil” things are going to happen no matter what you do. People like us do not have the power, nor will we ever have the power, to put a stop to it. Might as well just go with the flow.

This poll shows us just how many people would go along with a fascist system... until their time came to be lead to the gas chambers. I second shaming anyone who voted "No" on this poll. In the event of this scenario, i would probably be doing more than just hiding an "undesirable." Revolution Calling!
That's a different question. No one askled me if I'd fight back.

Protecting a single Muslim - especially one I don't know to be valuable to society - has a very low marginal value. It's not worth the risk to me.

But actively fighting back might be worth considerably more.

Precisely. What sodding difference will the hidning of one Muslim make anyway? A whole family of otherwise innocent and respectable citizens dying too? Bloody good logic that.
It is excellent logic. The more people that stand up to the government, the more that government must change.

That's a different question. No one askled me if I'd fight back.
exactly, I was asked if I would let a random stranger live in my house, not if I would "go along" with the government.

It is excellent logic. The more people that stand up to the government, the more that government must change.

The more people that oppose the government, the less the population.

Quite simply, the lives of myself, and my kin, maintain more value than those of Muslims I will never meet when making such a calculation.

That's a different question. No one askled me if I'd fight back.

Protecting a single Muslim - especially one I don't know to be valuable to society - has a very low marginal value. It's not worth the risk to me.

But actively fighting back might be worth considerably more.

Ahh, the cruel logic of marginal value. Ethically, I could not turn someone away from such an abuse. Fighting back is important, but it is still unethical to absolve one's self of responsibility if the need arose to hide someone from tyranny.

The more people that oppose the government, the less the population.

Quite simply, the lives of myself, and my kin, maintain more value than those of Muslims I will never meet when making such a calculation.
Your first statement is false. Your second statement is depressing.

It is excellent logic. The more people that stand up to the government, the more that government must change.

yes, but will it always change for the better? no.

if you stand up in a violent way the gov't will only become more authoritative

yes, but will it always change for the better? no.

if you stand up in a violent way the gov't will only become more authoritative
I haven't suggested anything violent. At least not yet.

It is excellent logic. The more people that stand up to the government, the more that government must change.
But that's not standing up to the government. That's hiding from the government and hoping they go away.

Ahh, the cruel logic of marginal value. Ethically, I could not turn someone away from such an abuse. Fighting back is important, but it is still unethical to absolve one's self of responsibility if the need arose to hide someone from tyranny.
Because you value those ethics more highly than I do.

The logic might be cruel, but it's still logic, and logic can't make mistakes.

"They say, 'Evil prevails when good men fail to act.' What they ought to say is, 'Evil prevails.'" ~ Yuri Orlov, Lord of War

“Evil” things are going to happen no matter what you do. People like us do not have the power, nor will we ever have the power, to put a stop to it. Might as well just go with the flow.

This sort of apathetic attitude is a direct cause of discrimination and even genocide. It's also one of the reasons that hardly 50% of eligible Americans vote - "My vote doesn't count, so I won't even bother." Mass action against oppressive policies can make a difference, but if people believe it can't, then it won't. A self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yes. The odds of that person being a terrorist are minute at best. It would be much like the resistance in Germany that took Jews into their homes and kept them hidden for years - brave people.


true true, but there never was a sophisticated network of terrorist jews, now was there. Jews never did anything wrong during or before the final solution, muslims however....eh.....

Because you value those ethics more highly than I do.

The logic might be cruel, but it's still logic, and logic can't make mistakes.

Might I then ask you what you would really expect another person to do if the tables were turned, and you were the one running for your life from the iron fist of the government?

But that's not standing up to the government. That's hiding from the government and hoping they go away.
What? Just because a tactic is non-violent does not mean it is passive. The revolution may have to come down a barrel of a gun but there is only one question being asked, "Would you hide a Muslim?". Another question may have this pacifist going Rambo on the government's ass.

true true, but there never was a sophisticated network of terrorist jews, now was there. Jews never did anything wrong during or before the final solution, muslims however....eh.....


1,000,000,000 people cannot be held accountable for the actions of 3,000 odd people

What? Just because a tactic is non-violent does not mean it is passive. The revolution may have to come down a barrel of a gun but there is only one question being asked, "Would you hide a Muslim?". Another question may have this pacifist going Rambo on the government's ass.

Very true. I think that any oppossing action, no matter how insignificant it may seem, would be better than not acting at all.

true true, but there never was a sophisticated network of terrorist jews, now was there. Jews never did anything wrong during or before the final solution, muslims however....eh.....

Fine, then, take the Japanese-American internment during WWII. Was that justified in the light of Japanese aggression? Maybe a few Japanese-Americans would have helped Japan against the US, but the great majority, I believe, would not have done so. Is it worth it to make millions suffer to get at a small percentage of traitors and terrorists?

1,000,000,000 people cannot be held accountable for the actions of 3,000 odd people


yes but have you ever seen how those 1,000,000,000 people react each time those 3,000 blow up a car, a building, or try to demolish israel. The go crazy, the have massive support rallies, hold up signs and burn US flags. Im not saying all 1 billion support them, but theres a pretty significant chunk of people who support terrorism, even if the arent directly involved.

Might I then ask you what you would really expect another person to do if the tables were turned, and you were the one running for your life from the iron fist of the government?
I'm a bad judge of other people - I have no idea what they'd do.

Fine, then, take the Japanese-American internment during WWII. Was that justified in the light of Japanese aggression? Maybe a few Japanese-Americans would have helped Japan against the US, but the great majority, I believe, would not have done so. Is it worth it to make millions suffer to get at a small percentage of traitors and terrorists?


the holocaust and internment were completely unjustified. The jews and japanese were unjustly persecuted becuase of their race. Neither group ever showed support for any kind of terrorist, or military action on a sovereign nation. I'm not saying throw muslims into internment camps and wipe out the race completely, so dont even try to make it sound like i want that. But what i am saying is that there would be a greater reason to lock up muslims than jews or japanese.

I'm a bad judge of other people - I have no idea what they'd do.

I'm only asking you what you would expect of another human being if you were in need of help.

What? Just because a tactic is non-violent does not mean it is passive. The revolution may have to come down a barrel of a gun but there is only one question being asked, "Would you hide a Muslim?". Another question may have this pacifist going Rambo on the government's ass.
Then you would die. Your actions will have meant next to nothing.
This sort of apathetic attitude is a direct cause of discrimination and even genocide. It's also one of the reasons that hardly 50% of eligible Americans vote - "My vote doesn't count, so I won't even bother." Mass action against oppressive policies can make a difference, but if people believe it can't, then it won't. A self-fulfilling prophecy.
Hey look its one of those crazies that thinks more American should vote. I shudder to think who would sit in high office if the average person got of their lazy ass and voted. You think Bush is bad? Imagine if NASCAR dads actually voted. Scared, yet?
What do you think would lead to a situation described in the OP? The government couldn't arbitrarily enforce something like this, not while its armed forces are drawn voluntarily from the people. No. This would need considerable public approval, and considering the sheer stupidity of the average person, a few more terrorist attacks could very well result in just that kind of thing.

the holocaust and internment were completely unjustified. The jews and japanese were unjustly persecuted becuase of their race. Neither group ever showed support for any kind of terrorist, or military action on a sovereign nation. I'm not saying throw muslims into internment camps and wipe out the race completely, so dont even try to make it sound like i want that. But what i am saying is that there would be a greater reason to lock up muslims than jews or japanese.

Of course, I don't want to misrepresent your words. And yes, the news networks show a lot of Muslims out on the streets, burning American flags, etc. But they never show the Muslims who sympathize with the US. A lot of Arabs and Muslims abroad have relatives here who consider themselves Americans. The situation might be different in the UK, but I can't say.

Then you would die. Your actions will have meant next to nothing.


This is such a ridiculous statement. It is beyond hypothetical. If I die, who is to say a group of people did not witness my bravery and that they become part of the underground revolution. What the hell? How do you even come to this definite conclusion?

Then you would die. Your actions will have meant next to nothing.

Hey look its one of those crazies that thinks more American should vote. I shudder to think who would sit in high office if the average person got of their lazy ass and voted. You think Bush is bad? Imagine if NASCAR dads actually voted. Scared, yet?
What do you think would lead to a situation described in the OP? The government couldn't arbitrarily enforce something like this, not while its armed forces are drawn voluntarily from the people. No. This would need considerable public approval, and considering the sheer stupidity of the average person, a few more terrorist attacks could very well result in just that kind of thing.

Point taken, but how do you think Bush won anyway? A bunch of religious conservatives went to the polls to vote on "moral grounds" (OMG gay marriage!) And I'd bet that a lot of the non-voting population consists of disenfranchised people (some poor, some black, etc.) who would vote against Bush but feel like they would make no difference even then.

This is such a ridiculous statement. It is beyond hypothetical. If I die, who is to say a group of people did not witness my bravery and that they become part of the underground revolution. What the hell? How do you even come to this definite conclusion?
Because things like that only happen in the movies. The real world is a stale place, controlled by relatively few men who wield power, though not necessarily cooperatively and not necessarily for any long span of time on an individual basis. Nothing substantial has been accomplished in the last hundred years without the backing of those men. Neither you nor I are among them.

Then you would die. Your actions will have meant next to nothing.

The death of one person can change the world forever. Can you imagine what the world would have looked like if Jesus hadn't been crucified? No, you can't.

Because things like that only happen in the movies. The real world is a stale place, controlled by relatively few men who wield power, thought not necessarily cooperatively. Nothing substantial has been accomplished in the last hundred years whiteout the backing of those men. Neither you nor I are among them.
You have a bleak outlook. I'd die for something I believe in. I'd kill for my right to be a pacifist. These things might seem quaint or contradictory but there is no point my life without these ideals.

yes but have you ever seen how those 1,000,000,000 people react each time those 3,000 blow up a car, a building, or try to demolish israel. The go crazy, the have massive support rallies, hold up signs and burn US flags. Im not saying all 1 billion support them, but theres a pretty significant chunk of people who support terrorism, even if the arent directly involved.Yeah, all one billion join together in unity and march in the streets. :rolleyes:

The death of one person can change the world forever. Can you imagine what the world would have looked like if Jesus hadn't been crucified? No, you can't.
There were plenty of other men cavorting about at the time claiming to be a messiah of some sort and being knocked off by the Romans.
Constantine, a man of great power and ambition and the real Geneses of Christianity, would have simply chosen another loon oppressed fringe religion to consolidate his empire.

The death of one person can change the world forever. Can you imagine what the world would have looked like if Jesus hadn't been crucified? No, you can't.
Considering it's decently likely that he didn't exist, and therefore couldn't die, yes I can.
But point well taken, anyway.

You have a bleak outlook. I'd die for something I believe in. I'd kill for my right to be a pacifist. These things might seem quaint or contradictory but there is no point my life without these ideals.
Then go ahead and die. Pass into nonexistent consciousness, where you will not even be able to understand what you have done, or anything else really. Those things tend to happen when your brain loses functionality and begins to rot.

Then go ahead and die. Pass into nonexistent consciousness, where you will not even be able to understand what you have done, or anything else really. Those things tend to happen when your brain loses functionality and begins to rot.
Why do you apparently think that I believe in an afterlife? There ain't nothing out there I know of but the things I see here happen to be important to me.

The death of one person can change the world forever. Can you imagine what the world would have looked like if Jesus hadn't been crucified? No, you can't.
We'd have one less silly religion screwing up the world?

Why do you apparently think that I believe in an afterlife? There ain't nothing out there I know of but the things I see here happen to be important to me.

One thing is for certain: if there were no concept of an afterlife, there would be far fewer suicide bombers around. No 70 virgins for you! Of course, suicide = hell in the Quran anyway, so strictly speaking, they're all going to hell in any case.

Actually, as your continued hatred for freedom of religion proves, bigots are not loyal to their nations of birth, but only to their benighted ideology and their fellow cultists.

There is no place in Western Civilization for such people as you.

OOOOHHHH, there's that B-word again! Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!!!

Freedom of religion ends when the "religion" in question intends to dominate the world and impose itself on every human being on earth. Islam is such a "religion." Or rather, a political ideology that masquerades as a religion.

Freedom of religion applies to those religions that "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's." You can practice Satanism for all I care, as long as your creed doesn't preach world conquest and imposition of your "religious" law on all other societies.

BTW: I'm impressed with your ability to cut and paste my post, even if your attempted parody fails miserably :p

I'm only asking you what you would expect of another human being if you were in need of help.
And I'm saying I can't have expectations without useful information on which to base them.

People don't typically behave in ways that I think make sense. As such, I find them unpredictable.

OOOOHHHH, there's that B-word again! Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!!!

Freedom of religion ends when the "religion" in question intends to dominate the world and impose itself on every human being on earth. Islam is such a "religion." Or rather, a political ideology that masquerades as a religion.

Freedom of religion applies to those religions that "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's." You can practice Satanism for all I care, as long as your creed doesn't preach world conquest and imposition of your "religious" law on all other societies.

BTW: I'm impressed with your ability to cut and paste my post, even if your attempted parody fails miserably :p

Islam does not condone conversion by force. (It's happened before, of course, but it certainly wasn't right.) Just as in Christianity, true conversion can't be coerced; the converts have to believe for themselves.

Then go ahead and die. Pass into nonexistent consciousness, where you will not even be able to understand what you have done, or anything else really. Those things tend to happen when your brain loses functionality and begins to rot.

Some things are worth dying for, even if all that awaits is oblivion. I personally don't know what lies beyond life, nor do I care. It means nothing when it comes to the decisions I make on life. Certain abuses I could never stand for, and I would do anything in my power to stop them, even if it meant death.

One thing is for certain: if there were no concept of an afterlife, there would be far fewer suicide bombers around. No 70 virgins for you! Of course, suicide = hell in the Quran anyway, so strictly speaking, they're all going to hell in any case.

Unless, as the following link establishes, Muslims redefine "suicide bombing" as NOT "suicide"!

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11272941&postcount=245

Let's stop kidding ourselves about the nature of the enemy.

OOOOHHHH, there's that B-word again! Bigotbigotbigotbigotbigot!!!

Freedom of religion ends when the "religion" in question intends to dominate the world and impose itself on every human being on earth. Islam is such a "religion." Or rather, a political ideology that masquerades as a religion.

Freedom of religion applies to those religions that "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's." You can practice Satanism for all I care, as long as your creed doesn't preach world conquest and imposition of your "religious" law on all other societies.

BTW: I'm impressed with your ability to cut and paste my post, even if your attempted parody fails miserably :p


you are generalizing the lowest estimate of the population of muslims worldwide is 1 billion, roughly.

just because 24 nutjobs to blow up a plane does not mean that all muslims tried to blow up a plane.

The idea of a homogenous religion is irrational there are as many interpretations of the Q'uran as there are muslims.

Some things are worth dying for, even if all that awaits is oblivion. I personally don't know what lies beyond life, nor do I care. It means nothing when it comes to the decisions I make on life. Certain abuses I could never stand for, and I would do anything in my power to stop them, even if it meant death.
And good for you. I like it when people stand up for their ideals.

But you can't hold it against other people for having different ideals.

dp

Shame on you all, that voted No in this poll. You fucking heartless bastards. What is the difference between you and the Nazis?:(

"He called on the rock to hide his face,
But the rock cried out, "No hiding place!"
There's no hiding place down here."

And good for you. I like it when people stand up for their ideals.

But you can't hold it against other people for having different ideals.
Yes you can. That's how arguments start.

Unless, as the following link establishes, Muslims redefine "suicide bombing" as NOT "suicide"!

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11272941&postcount=245

Let's stop kidding ourselves about the nature of the enemy.

Jesus. Are you going to base the beliefs of one billion people and the nature of the religion itself on what a few extreme conservative scholars say? Great.
By your estimation, am I "the enemy"? My father is Muslim, so I am. But I don't believe in one bit of this BS regarding what al-Qaeda and similar groups do - it is simply murder, and completely unjustified. And according to the tenets of THEIR OWN RELIGION (which they can't get around, no matter what sort of acrobatics they play with the words) they are going to burn in Hell for their murder of innocent civilians and their own suicides.

Yes you can. That's how arguments start.
I usually only argue with people when I think they've made logical errors.

Would You Hide A Muslim? of Course I would hide a Jew, Muslim, Mormon, etc.

exactly, I was asked if I would let a random stranger live in my house, not if I would "go along" with the government.
and that is really sad that alot of people equate "Not letting someone hide in your house" as "Letting the Government do what they want."

and that is really sad that alot of people equate "Not letting someone hide in your house".....and If for some reason It would be imposible the hide him/her in my app.. I would still help them in every possible way. (of course I count this as a yes vote)

and If for some reason It would be imposible the hide him/her in my app.. I would still help them in every possible way. (I count this a sa yes vote)
true, but the OP situation and question is that the man is AT YOUR DOOR asking to be hidden.

I can't allow him to hide in my apartment. so NO.

but I would strive to change that government laws requiring Registration. and I would seek a solution not involving violence.

true, but the OP situation and question is that the man is AT YOUR DOOR asking to be hidden.

I can't allow him to hide in my apartment. so NO.hmm.. then let me change the scenario a bit..
______________________________
While at church.. your well known pastor/priest asks you privately to please help hide for a few days Muslim families under "profiling" persecution..

Would you volunteer to hide one of their children?? You risk 20 years if caugh.

hmm.. then let me change the scenario a bit..
______________________________
While at church.. your well known pastor/priest asks you privately to please help hide for a few days Muslim families under "profiling" persecution..

Would you volunteer to hide one of their children?? You risk 20 years if caugh.
again, not at my apartment (same reasons.) I would explain to him why I can't. Add to that the fact that I am a single Male, living alone and I suddenly 'aquire' a child will be suspicious to my neighbors... even if that child doesn't look like me.

now, I won't turn around and turn them in. but I will donate money and items to the pastor to help... ahem "Feed and support the unfortunate in the community."

I will pass information to the pastor (or whomever) to assist them with the hiding. But because of where I live, I cannot risk hiding anyone at my place.

Edit: I could hide one in my office.. provided that person is smart enough not to be conspicous...

and If for some reason It would be imposible the hide him/her in my app.. I would still help them in every possible way. (of course I count this as a yes vote)
But that's not a yes. According to the question as asked, that's a no.

You can't interpret the intent of the question.

You can't interpret the intent of the question.of course I can.. I have a Keyboard.. there is no limits to my powers.. this is the Interweb.. Land of the Free.. home of the brave.. kingdom of porn..

If you look up.. you will notice I even changed his scenario.. I isolated the practical questions from the moral question.

of course I can.. I have a Keyboard.. there is no limits to my powers.. this is the Interweb.. Land of the Free.. home of the brave..

If you look up.. you will notice I even changed his scenario.. I isolated the practical questionas from the moral question.
True, but that's your senario... not the funnelled one the OP thought up. :D

of course I can.. I have a Keyboard.. there is no limits to my powers.. this is the Interweb.. Land of the Free.. home of the brave..

If you look up.. you will notice I even changed his scenario.. I isolated the practical questions from the moral question.
Which is an entirely different question. The initial question was interesting because of the interplay of the moral and practical angles.

And in your new scenario, I must be dreaming, because that's the only way I'd be at church.

But that's not a yes. According to the question as asked, that's a no.

You can't interpret the intent of the question.
the problem is everyone interprets the intent differently. hence why alot of "people who vote no are pussies!" remarks when they did answer the question honestly.

of course the fact that the question never stated NOT HELPING at all goes beyond some heads...

I would most definitely hide one, or two. Or however many I can orchestrate.

And if they end up punishing me, it will still have been worth it.

It depends on a few things:

If it is very unlikely that my attempt would be successful with a much worse punishment if the government realises that you are hiding him then I may think it is not worth the trouble.

true true, but there never was a sophisticated network of terrorist jews, now was there.

So the Stern Gang, the Irgun, and the Kahane Chai are all concoctions of the 3B1l M0zl3mz then?

You're a concrete example of a double standard established for Jews and Muslims, especially when it comes to terrorism and the acceptability of genocide. And the kind of nutjob the guy you named your nation after hopes makes a bigger public fuss to drive his point across.

True, but that's your senario... not the funnelled one the OP thought up. :DMy scenario is better.. It leaves almost no room for lame excuses..

the way I see it the bottom line is:

If there is a practical way to help the persecuted Muslims.. Would you do it.. (risking the 20 years) ??

the problem is everyone interprets the intent differently. hence why alot of "people who vote no are pussies!" remarks when they did answer the question honestly.
But those interpretations are necessarily baseless inferences. When asked a question, people should answer the question asked. Otherwise they're just making noise.