NationStates Jolt Archive

Hmmm. So much for immigration and openness, it seems. I'm not even going to post the pics of what the girl looked like after the assault/rape. Horrible. The savages should be castrated and chained to a poll to freeze to death while stuck to an iceberg. Waay too kind.



Muslim Rape Epidemic in Sweden and Norway - Authorities Look the Other Way

Swedish girls Malin and Amanda were on their way to a party on New Year’s Eve when they were assaulted, raped and beaten half to death by four Somali immigrants. Sweden’s largest newspaper has presented the perpetrators as “two men from Sweden, one from Finland and one from Somalia”, a testimony as to how bad the informal censorship is in stories related to immigration in Sweden. Similar incidents are reported with shocking frequency, to the point where some observers fear that law and order is completely breaking down in the country. The number of rape charges in Sweden has tripled in just above twenty years. Rape cases involving children under the age of 15 are six - 6 - times as common today as they were a generation ago. Most other kinds of violent crime have rapidly increased, too. Instability is spreading to most urban and suburban areas.

Some Muslim immigrants admit their bias quite openly. An Islamic Mufti in Copenhagen sparked a political outcry after publicly declaring that women who refuse to wear headscarves are “asking for rape.” Apparently, he’s not the only one thinking this way. “It is not as wrong raping a Swedish girl as raping an Arab girl,” says Hamid. “The Swedish girl gets a lot of help afterwards, and she had probably fucked before, anyway. But the Arab girl will get problems with her family. For her, being raped is a source of shame. It is important that she retains her virginity until she marries.” It was no coincidence that it was a Swedish girl that was gang raped in Rissne – this becomes obvious from the discussion with Ali, Hamid, Abdallah and Richard. All four have disparaging views on Swedish girls, and think this attitude is common among young men with immigrant background. “It is far too easy to get a Swedish whore…… girl, I mean;” says Hamid, and laughs over his own choice of words. “Many immigrant boys have Swedish girlfriends when they are teenagers. But when they get married, they get a proper woman from their own culture who has never been with a boy. That’s what I am going to do. I don’t have too much respect for Swedish girls. I guess you can say they get fucked to pieces.”

The number of rapes committed by Muslim immigrants in Western nations are so extremely high that it is difficult to view them only as random acts of individuals. It resembles warfare. Muhammad himself had forced sex (rape) with several of his slave girls/concubines. This is perfectly allowed, both in the sunna and in the Koran. If you postulate that many of the Muslims in Europe view themselves as a conquering army and that European women are simply war booty, it all makes perfect sense and is in full accordance with Islamic law. Western women are not so much regarded by most Muslims as individuals, but as “their women,” the women who “belong” to hostile Infidels. They are booty, to be taken, just as the land of the Infidels someday will drop, it is believed, into Muslim hand. This is not mere crime, but ideologically-justified crime or rather, in Muslim eyes, attacks on Infidels scarcely qualify as crime. Western women are cheap and offensive. We Muslims are here, here to stay, and we have a right to take advantage of this situation. It is our view of the matter that should prevail. Western goods, like the land on which we now live, belong to Allah and to the best of men—his Believers. Western women, too, essentially belong to us—our future booty. No wonder there is a deep and increasing suspicion against Muslims in the Swedish and European public.



The German journalist Udo Ulfkotte told in a recent interview that in Holland, you can now see examples of young, unveiled Moroccan women with a so-called “smiley”. It means that the girl gets one side of her face cut up from mouth to ear, serving as a warning to other Muslim girls who should refuse to wear the veil. In the Muslim suburb of Courneuve, France, 77 per cent of the veiled women carry veils reportedly because of fear of being harassed or molested by Islamic moral patrols.

An incredibly revealing article that tells us all we need to know about the multiculturalist fetish in Europe and some parts of North America, not to mention the need for change within Islam. Apparently, the Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet reported that 65 percent of rapes of Norwegian women were performed by "non-Western" immigrants – a category that, in Norway, consists mostly of Muslims. The article quoted a professor of social anthropology at the University of Oslo (note: her name is Unni Wikan) as saying that "Norwegian women must take their share of responsibility for these rapes" because Muslim men found their manner of dress provocative. The professor's conclusion was not that Muslim men living in the West needed to adjust to Western norms, but the exact opposite: "Norwegian women must realize that we live in a multicultural society and adapt themselves to it."

Swedish laws prohibiting “hate speech” against racial minorities have been vigorously enforced. There have, for example, been a number of gang-rapes of Swedish women by Muslim immigrants. But Swedes must be careful what they say about them. On May 25, neo-Nazi Bjorn Bjorkqvist was convicted and sentenced to two months in prison for writing, “I don’t think I am alone in feeling sick when reading about how Swedish girls are raped by immigrant hordes.”

Are you seriously asking us to say the faith of Islam is to blame for this?

Some Muslim immigrants admit their bias quite openly. An Islamic Mufti in Copenhagen sparked a political outcry after publicly declaring that women who refuse to wear headscarves are “asking for rape.” Apparently, he’s not the only one thinking this way. “It is not as wrong raping a Swedish girl as raping an Arab girl,” says Hamid. “The Swedish girl gets a lot of help afterwards, and she had probably fucked before, anyway. But the Arab girl will get problems with her family. For her, being raped is a source of shame. It is important that she retains her virginity until she marries.”

Actually, many daughters of Muslim immigrants to France face the same social pressure to conform to Muslim values, even if the want to live a secular, French life. This pressure was a main reason for the ban on conspicuous religious symbols (including the hijab) in public schools. There is an active French feminist group called Ni Putes, Ni Soumises (Neither Whores Nor Submissives) that focuses on this problem. Two high-profile cases that I'd recommend looking into are those of Sohane Benziane, who was doused in gasoline and set afire by a Muslim gang leader, and of Samira Ballil, who wrote a book describing the rapes she endured at the hands of these gangs during her childhood.

Link.

Are you seriously asking us to say the faith of Islam is to blame for this?

The faith isn't to blame, it's a culture formed by certain members of that faith that demeans women.

Link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ni_Putes_Ni_Soumises

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ni_Putes_Ni_Soumises
I think he meant DM, who posted without linking and commited plagerism, again.

I think he meant DM, who posted without linking and commited plagerism, again.

Well, either way, the link is worth looking at. :p

I think he meant DM, who posted without linking and commited plagerism, again.
i think it's way obvious that DM did not write the artical.

and reading things like this make me want to scream and literaly torcher guys and beat the hell out of them who in the fucking hell do these guys think they are?
i bet that a good majority of the woman that they have rape have been virgins, fucking hypocrits..they talk about "whors" like its so evil and yet they go around RAPEING girls or dating them just to fuck and they think its no big deal..will some one please hit these guys up side the head..preferibly with something heavey like a sledge hammer?:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
:upyours:
*snarls*

i think it's way obvious that DM did not write the artical.
Obviously, but in not crediting he has commited plagerism.

*SNIP RANT* *snarls*
Before you get your blood pressure worked up, wait to find out where this came from. The article reads like a tabloid or blog entry not a newspaper. DM has a history of using such to "prove" that something happened or will happen just to find out, when looking further, that it collaspes like a house of cards.

It's reading like a diametrically evil version of Howard Stern's Lesbian Theory (i.e. Anything can be made better by including lesbians.)

In this case, it's "Anything horrible can be made more repulsive and disgusting to human beings by including Muslims as the perpetrators."

Rape is rape and should be treated as such. This is just another undocumented attempt to say "Islam is even more evil than (Cliché Stereotypical) Satanism and we should kill all the sand niggers in the world."

Obviously, but in not crediting he has commited plagerism.


Before you get your blood pressure worked up, wait to find out where this came from. The article reads like a tabloid or blog entry not a newspaper. DM has a history of using such to "prove" that something happened or will happen just to find out, when looking further, that it collaspes like a house of cards.
too late about the blood pressure, to be honist i dont care where it came from or who wrote it and when. stuff like this does happen even if it never "makes the papers", the fact that guys get away with it(rape and abuse of anykind) and not only do they get away with it but people act like its ok and they push it under the rug and belittle it! makes me so mad i can't see strait...hence the snarl

people act like its ok and they push it under the rug and belittle it! makes me so mad i can't see strait...hence the snarl

The problem I see here is twofold. One, the lack of arrests and convictions. Rapists don't get convicted all that often. Second, the level of punishment. Even when convicted, rapists don't usually get all that much of a heavy punishment either.

How to solve this? Well, for one, judges and juries could be vetted for holding views of "She deserved it" in any case. Those who have them are prevented from being put in a position to judge. Bias and all that. The problem is that it's not that easy to filter them out. Law enforcement is also an issue. In some cases, police have been noted to treat rape cases as so common, it's "meh" able. Deplorable really.

The second? Probably something that would provide a suitable deterrance for rapists. I've always thought that removing their ability to commit the same crime again was a suitable punishment. It doesn't even have to be painful, thus avoiding the accusation of barbarism, with anasthetics.

A cold, mechanical law enforcement system with suitable penalties is far more effective I should think.

The number of rapes committed by Muslim immigrants in Western nations are so extremely high that it is difficult to view them only as random acts of individuals. It resembles warfare. Muhammad himself had forced sex (rape) with several of his slave girls/concubines. This is perfectly allowed, both in the sunna and in the Koran. If you postulate that many of the Muslims in Europe view themselves as a conquering army and that European women are simply war booty, it all makes perfect sense and is in full accordance with Islamic law. Western women are not so much regarded by most Muslims as individuals, but as “their women,” the women who “belong” to hostile Infidels. They are booty, to be taken, just as the land of the Infidels someday will drop, it is believed, into Muslim hand.
How about this:
The number of rapes being committed by Scandinavian immigrants in the United States and across the world are so high that it is difficult to view them only as random acts of individuals. It resembles good old Viking raping and pillaging. Scandinavians have a history of being murderers and rapists, and earned that reputation from hundreds of years of barbaric raids on the coasts of Europe. If you postulate that the Scandinavians today see themselves as an invading army, then it all makes perfect sense and is in accord with Scandinavian traditions that originated well over a thousand years ago. They see women of other nations as nothing more than booty to be plundered in a raid and raped. Incredibly, many of the Vikings claimed membership in the Christian faith and a very large percentage still do today. There are examples in the Bible of forced sleeping with concubines and slave girls (rape), and this is just more vindication for the Scandinavians' efforts to conquer territory which they deem theirs by divine right.
See, DM? It's not that hard to be racist.

DM has quoted something from the blogger Fjordman (http://fjordman.blogspot.com/), a notoriously xenophobic and anti-immigrant blogger. It has been presented on this board multiple times in the past. It's part frightening facts, part really old news, and a large part bullshit, all mixed up in a message of sweeping generalisation.

Knock yourselves out - this has been done too many times before.

It's good to hear the jaded perspective.

The main issue I have with this article, no matter who wrote it because the issue is actually there, is the professor who states that it is not the immigrants' responsibility, but the natives of the country. She says that the girls must realize blah blah and change their style of dress and all their habits. I am an immigrant, when I came here I learned the language, and I am still learning the culture. When someone, anyone, moves to a new country it is their responsibility to make the change. If you liked your way of life so much back where you were then why did you leave? I left the states because I didn't like my quality of life and I found better in another country. I would guess that most immigrants, and especially refugees, are going to be able to say the same thing.

It's personal to me, because I've made the effort, I've put in the energy, but there are people out there telling entire countries to change their entire culture to keep a percentage of the non-native population from raping and beating and using and abusing their girls! It's rediculous. Absolutely ludicrous. Egotistical and stupid. If you move to France, you learn French, eat French food, celebrate French holidays. If you move to the US you learn English, eat American food, celebrate American holidays. What you do personally, religiously or sexually or in your family, is something you do privately. To demand an entire nation change to fit your private beliefs to keep you from being a total and complete jerkoff is so dumb I can't even express it.

Frustrating! :headbang:

If its nessecary for some peoples health to accuse muslims of being the root of all evil at least once a day, could we at least try to keep it fresh?

If its nessecary for some peoples health to accuse muslims of being the root of all evil at least once a day, could we at least try to keep it fresh?
Yeah... as a Christian, I'm almost feeling like I'm being left out of the blame, there are so many anti-Muslim articles all over the place.

You know what the real issue here is? Most Muslims have darker skin than we of northern European descent. Therefore they are the devil. Also, it's been a good thousand years since we really got to properly persecute the infidel Muslims, and we need another dose of that to settle down. Yep, gotta have some genocide now and again. It's the American way.

Anyone who is proclaiming to be a member of a religion yet their actions say otherwise should be cast from that religion. Im tired of hypocrites. ALL hypocrites. If you say you are a christian then you cannot have sex before marriage just cause you wanna ignore that rule cause it doesn't suit you, if you do then you aren't a christian. you're a hypocrite

If you say you are a muslim then dont turn the sacred words into something that justifies killing and raping, because you know what? If you really believe in the God that you "SAY" you worship and respect and follow, then you better believe he knows that you know that you are doing wrong. And i dont care if you try to justify it to yourself, YOU KNOW IN YOUR HEART that hurting another human being IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER is against whatever GOD there is. ALL Religions in the world that i know of except for the SATANIC religions say xactly that. All the big religions atleast. How dare any of you justify something so hateful and disgusting as killing and raping another human being as following your GOD. If thats true then you serve SATAN himself. For he is the only one who would Justify such disgusting behaviour. Not even animals do such things. You are lower then animals

Hurting another human being is against everything these religions stand for and no matter how you twist the words, everyone knows that since the time they are born. Its as obvious as anything. If you believe in these religions then you may believe in punishment for not following the religions too, then guess what my buddies, if you believe in hell, then you ARE GOING TO HELL for not following your religions. Im tired of hypocrites getting treated better because they are a member of a religion when they dont even follow the rules of that religion and choose to completely ignore some of what that GOD says and then proclaim to be living and serving that GOD 100%.
When the retribution day comes, you will know the truth. You know if you have done wrong or right.. You know and your GOD knows what you know. And its him and yourself that you will have to answer to. You will feel all the pain you have caused others. You will burn with it. Good luck with that guys.
I certainly hope you all be true to yourselves and accept it now and grow as a human being, before the end..

Cast those hypocrites out. They do not deserve any respect or priveledges

That is all i have to say. I do not belong to a specific religion. I am my own God

Yeah... as a Christian, I'm almost feeling like I'm being left out of the blame, there are so many anti-Muslim articles all over the place.

You know what the real issue here is? Most Muslims have darker skin than we of northern European descent. Therefore they are the devil. Also, it's been a good thousand years since we really got to properly persecute the infidel Muslims, and we need another dose of that to settle down. Yep, gotta have some genocide now and again. It's the American way.

Thats what happens when you over-cull the natives. You have to fuck off to shores far and fucking distant to find good quality not-a-hope-in-hell-of winning dark skinned devil people to kick the shit out of. The brits at least had the Irish in a convenient basket next door.

That being said, they're white....they can sneak out....as long as nobody sees the hair on their backside they could pass for people....

The faith isn't to blame, it's a culture formed by certain members of that faith that demeans women.

i may be wrong..and if i am,i'm sure i will be told quite quickly...but do these men not control the religion?

if not,why are the women treated like shit,and the stain of intercoarse so hard to erase from their culture/religion.

this is not the first i heard of this type of attitude...it seems to be prevalent through out the culture..unfortunately...i may be wrong,and i really hope i am.

if it is not a mainstay of their faith..then why do i know women from the middle east that want nothing to do with the culture...cause they are whores?

wtf cant modern men from islamic countries stand the fuck up and say ..it is wrong to treat women like this?

it is my exsperiance that most just leave and in my small world..come to america to escape the small mindedness...as i am sure they also flee to europe.

why the hell do they need to hold down women?

are they afraid of women?

i am really baffled,and would love to know why they fear women so much in that culture/religion...again,i only know from my limited exsposure,so i may be wrong,but the muslim women i know...want nothing to do with the old country..yet they do remain very faithfull to their religion.

from my admittedly limited knowledge of islam,i do find it peculiar that the muslims that i know,kinda of like the freedom they have here in the states,and are probably the nicest people i have had the pleasure of meeting.

i really hope it is not as stupid as men from the stoneage trying to hold women down...so they dont feel threatened by the world...that would so suck if you consider the misery that women have suffered over there,let alone the wars and violence...over being insecure about a girl...god tell me i am wrong!

wtf cant modern men from islamic countries stand the fuck up and say ..it is wrong to treat women like this?
Um... because if they're in a country like Turkey, many do, and if they're in a country like Iran, they'll get jailed or killed for it?

Hurting another human being is against everything these religions stand for and no matter how you twist the words, everyone knows that since the time they are born. Its as obvious as anything. If you believe in these religions then you may believe in punishment for not following the religions too, then guess what my buddies, if you believe in hell, then you ARE GOING TO HELL for not following your religions. Im tired of hypocrites getting treated better because they are a member of a religion when they dont even follow the rules of that religion and choose to completely ignore some of what that GOD says and then proclaim to be living and serving that GOD 100%.
You're obviously a very confused person. First of all, one need not be perfect to be considered a Christian. You can only be a Christian if you know that you make mistakes and commit sins and wish to repent of them. And one of the basic tenets of the Christian faith is that through Jesus' forgiveness, we can avoid going to hell despite the fact that we still sin.

I love hypocrites. And I'm not being sarcastic. All my favorite people are hypocrites. Everyone I've ever known is a hypocrite, but does that mean I take the holier-than-thou attitude towards them? No. Because guess what? I know that I have faults, like everyone else. What I do is try to fix those.

Yes thats a really nice way of justifying it. Knowing you are about to do something wrong before hand and then using the excuse that you are allowed to do something wrong because you will repent afterwards when you have done what you wanted done..

The problem with repenting is that you have to be sorry with all your soul, otherwise you are not repenting, you are apologising, apologising as in, i knew it was wrong but i did it anyway and im sorry, will you forgive me? That just doesn't cut it. People can change, and christians can break the rules and still be christians, but they have to be truly sorry and understand why, what they did was wrong in the eyes of their God. Otherwise repenting just doesn't work. Get it?

Are you seriously asking us to say the faith of Islam is to blame for this?

Not the faith of Islam per se.
Not much point in blaming a noun.

But as to the persons who practise that faith...
Don't persecute - PROSECUTE!

To some extent, this is a rehash of what you and I discussed earlier.
And I still maintain: if anyone follows some 'outside'-code, go after 'em with the full rigour of the Law!

PS: let no one speak of tolerating moderate islamic practises -
unless you explain to me how you can moderately stone a woman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RightLeftFront
Hurting another human being is against everything these religions stand for and no matter how you twist the words, everyone knows that since the time they are born. Its as obvious as anything. If you believe in these religions then you may believe in punishment for not following the religions too, then guess what my buddies, if you believe in hell, then you ARE GOING TO HELL for not following your religions. Im tired of hypocrites getting treated better because they are a member of a religion when they dont even follow the rules of that religion and choose to completely ignore some of what that GOD says and then proclaim to be living and serving that GOD 100%.
_________________________________________________________________
You're obviously a very confused person. First of all, one need not be perfect to be considered a Christian. You can only be a Christian if you know that you make mistakes and commit sins and wish to repent of them. And one of the basic tenets of the Christian faith is that through Jesus' forgiveness, we can avoid going to hell despite the fact that we still sin.



If you are a christian, then you have to by definition believe the bible. st Paul says "If a man's religion teaches him not love 9charity), then that man's faith is false"

i.e. if you dont follow God's laws, and day you are a hippocrite and a lyer (also said somewhere in similar words). You sant say that Jesus understands and he will forgive me. He forgives those who repent. that means those who say they are sorry and actively try to change. God doesnt expect us to be perfect, but does he does tell us to try to be like HIM - HE was perfect, therefore we have to try to be perfect - or you cannot say you are a true christian.

If you are a christian, then you have to by definition believe the bible. st Paul says "If a man's religion teaches him not love 9charity), then that man's faith is false"

Wow, there must have not been any Christians before the 4th century, since there was no Bible yet.

Christians like you need a history lesson about your own religion. Early Christians did not have a Bible. Nor did they read all of the books in the Bible that you read today. Your Bible was a result of emerging Orthodoxy, Catholicism. You read a Bible where the books were selected to reflect pre-existing Orthodox doctrine that had been voted on, and where the books themselves were voted on. Some books even came down to mediator arbitration by a pagan Emperor.

Early Christians, again referring to Orthodoxy (because we all know those Gnositcs were a bunch of wicked heretics :rolleyes:) did not even use all of the books in your Bible today. On top of that, they used other books not included in your Bible. Thus, based on the books they used and didn't use, early beliefs about Jesus, Paul, etc. were quite different than the ones you have today.

In short, your Bible, your entire set of beliefs, was created in the 4th century. It does not reflect Jesus, the Apostles, or early Christianity. That much is undisputed historical fact.

DM has quoted something from the blogger Fjordman (http://fjordman.blogspot.com/), a notoriously xenophobic and anti-immigrant blogger. It has been presented on this board multiple times in the past. It's part frightening facts, part really old news, and a large part bullshit, all mixed up in a message of sweeping generalisation.

Knock yourselves out - this has been done too many times before.

Ask any non biased swede. And he'll tell you the muslim immigrants are responsible for most of the rapes. However, we cant link you directly to statistics because Sweden doesnt collect data as in rape vs religion. The situation is same in Denmark. And it's same in Oslo. The fact that there arent much muslims outside Oslo saves the norwegian girls elsewhere.
Another proof of rape vs immigrants is that rapes are increasing in very high rates as immigrants increase...


Oslo rape statistics shock
Two out of three charged with rape in Norway's capital are immigrants with a non-western background according to a police study. The number of rape cases is also rising steadily.The study is the first where the crime statistics have been analyzed according to ethnic origin. Of the 111 charged with rape in Oslo last year, 72 were of non-western ethnic origin, 25 are classified as Norwegian or western and 14 are listed as unknown.

Rape charges in the capital are spiraling upwards, 40 percent higher from 1999 to 2000 and up 13 percent so far this year.

Nine out of ten cases do not make it to prosecution, most of them because police do not believe the evidence is sufficient to reach a conviction.

Police Inspector Gunnar Larsen of Oslo's Vice, Robbery and Violent crime division says the statistics are surprising - the rising number of rape cases and the link to ethnic background are both clear trends. But Larsen does not want to speculate on the reasons behind the worrying developments.

While 65 percent of those charged with rape are classed as coming from a non-western background, this segment makes up only 14.3 percent of Oslo's population. Norwegian women were the victims in 80 percent of the cases, with 20 percent being women of foreign background.

Larsen said that since this was the initial study examining ethnic make-up there were no existing figures to put the numbers into context.

"Meanwhile, it is our general experience that this is an increasing tendency. We note this by the number of time we need to use interpreters in the course of an investigation," Larsen said.

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article190268.ece

Hmm, so some immigrant men commit rape, and therefore we should put an end to the evil Brown Tide rolling in?

I guess, by that logic, we're gonna have to get rid of all the white boys, too. They seem to do a perfectly fine job of making sure enough women get raped, and they've got victim-blaming down to a goddam science in my country. Clearly, we must purge this white-skinned menace from our shores.

Hmm, so some immigrant men commit rape, and therefore we should put an end to the evil Brown Tide rolling in?

I guess, by that logic, we're gonna have to get rid of all the white boys, too. They seem to do a perfectly fine job of making sure enough women get raped, and they've got victim-blaming down to a goddam science in my country. Clearly, we must purge this white-skinned menace from our shores.

Most immigrants, especially muslims see women as 2nd class citizens. Some (maybe most) think they are whores because they dont wear head scarfs and have sex before marriage. These rapes have such cultural connections, which I thought was obvious. But Political Correctness to the level of pure stupidity also causes blindness, as I see...
The point is European culture(s) are being replaced by this inferior cultures by mass immigration. I say inferior because of the way they treat women and homesexuals and other shitty stuff...

Hmmm. So much for immigration and openness, it seems. I'm not even going to post the pics of what the girl looked like after the assault/rape. Horrible. The savages should be castrated and chained to a poll to freeze to death while stuck to an iceberg. Waay too kind.Hi, Ny Nordland...

Hi, Ny Nordland...

Dont sound this paranoiac :rolleyes:

Edit: If you had even sub atomic levels of objectivity, you should have guessed that I would never defend "castrated and chained to a poll to freeze to death while stuck to an iceberg". I would simply argue for the deportation of immigrants and deportation of criminals, after they served their jail sentence...

I say inferior because of the way they treat women and homesexuals and other shitty stuff...
I had a feeling you might enjoy this thread...

There was only one case of rape that was actually made public (because the girl went to the police) at my school back in Germany, and that was a German guy and a Turkish girl. Not sure what happened with him. He was kicked out of the school, but I left before I heard what happened in court later on.

I had a feeling you might enjoy this thread...

There was only one case of rape that was actually made public (because the girl went to the police) at my school back in Germany, and that was a German guy and a Turkish girl. Not sure what happened with him. He was kicked out of the school, but I left before I heard what happened in court later on.

Well either expel all Germans, or its her fault because she's Turkish.

Well either expel all Germans, or its her fault because she's Turkish.

Stop with the idiotic straw men arguments...It's not even funny, just pure stupid...

Well either expel all Germans, or its her fault because she's Turkish.
If he's white, then she was lying about the rape. Either that, or she was dressed for sex and therefore deserved it.

If he wasn't white, though, it was clearly a horrible crime and he should be brutally castrated in the public square.

If he's white, then she was lying about the rape. Either that, or she was dressed for sex and therefore deserved it.

If he wasn't white, though, it was clearly a horrible crime and he should be brutally castrated in the public square.

Are straw men arguments all you can come up with?? :rolleyes: It just shows the weakness of your own position...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11248171&postcount=35

Are straw men arguments all you can come up with?? :rolleyes: It just shows the weakness of your own position...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11248171&postcount=35
I invoke the Montoya Principle. The term "straw man" does not mean what you think it means.

What I posted was an example of something called "satire."

I invoke the Montoya Principle. The term "straw man" does not mean what you think it means.

What I posted was an example of something called "satire."

Right. I just dont think anything "funny" can be reached out of a discussion about rapes...

DM has quoted something from the blogger Fjordman (http://fjordman.blogspot.com/), a notoriously xenophobic and anti-immigrant blogger. It has been presented on this board multiple times in the past. It's part frightening facts, part really old news, and a large part bullshit, all mixed up in a message of sweeping generalisation.

Precisely, and taking anything Fjordman says about immigrants seriously, is like taking anything Ny Nordland says about immigrants seriously. It is all distorted BS.

Dont sound this paranoiac :rolleyes:

Edit: If you had even sub atomic levels of objectivity, you should have guessed that I would never defend "castrated and chained to a poll to freeze to death while stuck to an iceberg". I would simply argue for the deportation of immigrants and deportation of criminals, after they served their jail sentence...If my paranoid delusions stopped turning out to be true more often than not, I wouldn't be paranoid in the first place. ;)

To be honest, I didn't even read that part.

Ask any non biased swede. And he'll tell you the muslim immigrants are responsible for most of the rapes. However, we cant link you directly to statistics because Sweden doesnt collect data as in rape vs religion. The situation is same in Denmark. And it's same in Oslo. The fact that there arent much muslims outside Oslo saves the norwegian girls elsewhere.


The vast majority of rapes get totally unnoticed, about 80% of rapes will never be reported. In 25% of the cases (reported) victim has or has had a close relationship with the rapist. In 50% of the cases victim knows the rapist, e.g. they are on a date. 25% of the cases are these ones that get into the news, "bushrapes".

The police, at least here in Finland (next to Sweden and Norway), thinks that more rapes are being reported, not because there are more rapes, but because women are not as shamed of it anymore. They have realised it's not their fault. The police and workers in women's shelter homes have also noticed that women tend to report the rape more often if the rapist is not Finnish.

However, it seems that immigrants from mostly Muslim countries (especially Somalia) are overrepresented in rape cases. But not as clearly as Finnish men like to believe.

I had a feeling you might enjoy this thread...

There was only one case of rape that was actually made public (because the girl went to the police) at my school back in Germany, and that was a German guy and a Turkish girl. Not sure what happened with him. He was kicked out of the school, but I left before I heard what happened in court later on.

Is anectodal "evindences" all you could have come up with? Keep burying your head in the sand. It's what people like you always do. Immigrants are, as usual, overrepresented in crime in Germany. And those statistics dont even include immigrants with german citizenship (because they are counted as "german").

I seriously want to see a linky for this crap.

[QUOTE]The German journalist Udo Ulfkotte told in a recent interview that in Holland, you can now see examples of young, unveiled Moroccan women with a so-called “smiley”. It means that the girl gets one side of her face cut up from mouth to ear, serving as a warning to other Muslim girls who should refuse to wear the veil.[QUOTE]

I've really never ever seen this over here. I know enough muslems girls who don't wear a scarf. This is seriously BS...

Precisely, and taking anything Fjordman says about immigrants seriously, is like taking anything Ny Nordland says about immigrants seriously. It is all distorted BS.

I usually quote statistics. If you cant take statistics seriously, it means you dont take reality seriously. Go back to your own delusions.

The vast majority of rapes get totally unnoticed, about 80% of rapes will never be reported. In 25% of the cases (reported) victim has or has had a close relationship with the rapist. In 50% of the cases victim knows the rapist, e.g. they are on a date. 25% of the cases are these ones that get into the news, "bushrapes".

The police, at least here in Finland (next to Sweden and Norway), thinks that more rapes are being reported, not because there are more rapes, but because women are not as shamed of it anymore. They have realised it's not their fault. The police and workers in women's shelter homes have also noticed that women tend to report the rape more often if the rapist is not Finnish.

However, it seems that immigrants from mostly Muslim countries (especially Somalia) are overrepresented in rape cases. But not as clearly as Finnish men like to believe.

Finland has the lowest amount of immigrants in all nordic countries, maybe except Iceland. You will see the levels of "overrepresentation" in a couple years.
That "women arent ashamed to report rapes anymore" aregument is also done in other countries. I find it highly silly. The women in 2000 were ashamed but something radical happened in 4 years??

The vast majority of rapes get totally unnoticed, about 80% of rapes will never be reported. In 25% of the cases (reported) victim has or has had a close relationship with the rapist. In 50% of the cases victim knows the rapist, e.g. they are on a date. 25% of the cases are these ones that get into the news, "bushrapes".82.3% of statistics are made up on the spot.

I seriously want to see a linky for this crap.

[QUOTE]The German journalist Udo Ulfkotte told in a recent interview that in Holland, you can now see examples of young, unveiled Moroccan women with a so-called “smiley”. It means that the girl gets one side of her face cut up from mouth to ear, serving as a warning to other Muslim girls who should refuse to wear the veil.[QUOTE]

I've really never ever seen this over here. I know enough muslems girls who don't wear a scarf. This is seriously BS...

I've heard of that actually. Except its also called a telephone cut. Its not uncommon at all.

DM, for the last time, we don't care that muslims are raping their way through Europe. They're allowed to.

82.3% of statistics are made up on the spot.
Can you read Finnish?

Of course that's not a clear fact, just an estimation made by police, doctors and women's shelter workers.

I've heard of that actually. Except its also called a telephone cut. Its not uncommon at all.

Yeah, I've heared of it as well, but I haven't seen it.

I've heard of that actually. Except its also called a telephone cut. Its not uncommon at all.

Chelsea Smile also I think.

Finland has the lowest amount of immigrants in all nordic countries, maybe except Iceland. You will see the levels of "overrepresentation" in a couple years.
That "women arent ashamed to report rapes anymore" aregument is also done in other countries. I find it highly silly. The women in 2000 were ashamed but something radical happened in 4 years??
You might be right. Then again, Finland has learned a lot from Sweden's problems and wrong decisions. We know that it's not a good idea to throw all immigrants in the same old suburb where nothing works etc.

And nothing radical hasn't happened in 4 years. At least around here. It's continuos rise, not a radical one. At the same time the number of reports of all sort of crimes has increased while the number of crimes hasn't increased. Quite interesting really.

I'll check the article you posted in a second. I'm just quoting a Finnish study here, maybe the situation is totally different in Norway.

Keep burying your head in the sand.
*Runs to get spade*

82.3% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Most definetely including yours.

Anyway, let us suppose there is a connection between Islamic mentality and rape... if it were so, what would you actually do?

Can you read Finnish?When tossing about so many percentages, it's usually a good idea to cite your sources. Let readers worry about translation if the info isn't available in English.

Most definetely including yours.Why yes. That would be the joke.

Anyway, let us suppose there is a connection between Islamic mentality and rape... if it were so, what would you actually do?

Well, if we're going into fantasy land, I'd call on the Great Space Badger to wipe clean the Nordic countries of mankind.

http://enough.typepad.com/enough/2005/03/threat_of_the_v.html

I wanted to say something but that says it all i tjhink, i agree with most of the stuff on that site. I'm not just against islam, i'm against all 3 abrahamic religions.

It doesn't surprise me that this is the case. There have been many instances in the UK where muslims have been grooming white girls for sex and raping them. But unfortunately, I don't have the statistics to back it up because our government is too gutless to publish them. As for the rapes, they only happen because the muslims know how easy it is and how they can get away with it. If their position in society was a lot more precarious I doubt they would be prepared to do that kind of thing. Prevention is far better than cure. And by far the most effective way of preventing muslim rapes is if there are no muslims in the country.

When tossing about so many percentages, it's usually a good idea to cite your sources. Let readers worry about translation if the info isn't available in English.
Ok, I realise that. I should have mentioned my sources. Probably some of them can be found by google too.
Kainulainen, Heini (2004) Raiskattu? Tutkimus raiskausten käsittelemisestä rikosprosesissa.
(Oikeuspoliittiinen tutkimuslaitos ja Tilastokeskus)

here
http://www.om.fi/optula/29091.htm
http://www.om.fi/optula/11323.htm

Well, if we're going into fantasy land, I'd call on the Great Space Badger to wipe clean the Nordic countries of mankind.

See, the position is a bit like that of a Pacifists who comes with reasons not to back the Iraq War.
Inasmuch as there is no war he'd support, there is absolutely no reason to take his arguments on that particular war in any form of seriousity, other than his opposition to wars in general.

If my paranoid delusions stopped turning out to be true more often than not, I wouldn't be paranoid in the first place. ;)

To be honest, I didn't even read that part.

So, you are quoting and answering to a paragraph that you havent even read? Way to go. You are so open minded....:rolleyes:

Hmmm...Somalis...maybe there's another factor here...
Niggers raping white women--anybody got a tree and a rope?

I mean, why are those countries letting niggers immigrate to begin with?

anybody got a tree and a rope?
Goddammit. I had one in the shed. Couldn't you have said so earlier?

*swings spade about angrily, trots off*

See, the position is a bit like that of a Pacifists who comes with reasons not to back the Iraq War.
Inasmuch as there is no war he'd support, there is absolutely no reason to take his arguments on that particular war in any form of seriousity, other than his opposition to wars in general.

Weird, considering I'm not a Pacifist.

You opened the door to Fantasy, I walked through.

it let us suppose there is a connection between Islamic mentality and rape

So, you are quoting and answering to a paragraph that you havent even read? Way to go. You are so open minded....:rolleyes:Yup. Sometimes things cross your path that aren't worth reading. Eventually you too will learn to differentiate between things worth your time and things that aren't. There's no need to be open minded to the ravings of DM. Perhaps he has a point, but it's most likely lost in the rantings he posts, and I have more important things to do than go looking for it.

Hmmm...Somalis...maybe there's another factor here...
Niggers raping white women--anybody got a tree and a rope?

I mean, why are those countries letting niggers immigrate to begin with?
A bit of change for the ladies?

Weird, considering I'm not a Pacifist.

You opened the door to Fantasy, I walked through.

Yes. Then what would you do in that scenario?

It's your presumption that the link between islam or cultural mentality is fantasy.
Try proving it.

I'm wondering what DesignatedMarksman or Ny Nordland think of the Swedish authorities. What would they have to gain by looking the other way while the muslim horde is raping their blondes? Surely they'd do something to stop them? The only reason I can think of to ignore this epidemic is that it might not exist.

The German journalist Udo Ulfkotte told in a recent interview that in Holland, you can now see examples of young, unveiled Moroccan women with a so-called “smiley”. It means that the girl gets one side of her face cut up from mouth to ear, serving as a warning to other Muslim girls who should refuse to wear the veil.
Nonsense. There's been a single reported incident which resembles what is written here. The guy who did this was said to be a muslim but his actions aren't known to be inspired by faith. Also, Ulfkotte isn't just a journalist, he's a right wing publicist and security expert. He has a lot to gain from fearmongering. Hm, author of "Der Krieg in unseren Städten - Wie radikale Islamisten Deutschland unterwandern" (The War in our Cities - How Radical Islamists Infiltrate Germany). Such a refreshing NPOV.

Well, it would be nice to be able to spot those with attitudes incompatible with western values and refuse them entry, but it can't really be done unless you're willing to be indiscriminate.

This one is from Denmark. I guess most of these immigrants are actually christian latin americans or maybe atheist chineese. That's why the muslim organisation feel the need to step in. I mean, muslims are so peaceful and so great that they feel the need to do something against these "christian" rapes. Oh if you havent figured so far, keep the sarcasm as a gift. Bear in mind that muslims constitude only 2% of the population in Denmark


Muslim rape concern
Alarmed at last week's police statistics, which revealed that in 68% of all rapes committed this year the perpetrator was from an ethnic minority, leading Muslim organisations have now formed an alliance to fight the ever-growing problem of young second and third-generation immigrants involved in rape cases against young Danish girls. Promising demonstrations and an information campaign, Babar Baig from Minhaj ul Quran said that Islam totally condemns rape and the violation of women. 'We feel very strongly that as a Muslim youth organisation, we have a responsibility to speak out about this problem,' said Baig, whose organisation, alongside the Union of Muslim Students (FASM) and the Organisation of Pakistani Students and Academics (OPSA) announced demonstrations in Copenhagen, Odense and Århus.

http://www.cphpost.dk/get/62605.html

I'm wondering what DesignatedMarksman or Ny Nordland think of the Swedish authorities. What would they have to gain by looking the other way while the muslim horde is raping their blondes? Surely they'd do something to stop them? The only reason I can think of to ignore this epidemic is that it might not exist.


Votes. Look at George Galloway.

Well, it would be nice to be able to spot those with attitudes incompatible with western values and refuse them entry, but it can't really be done unless you're willing to be indiscriminate.

A Test Act would be easy enough to set up...

'I hereby vow that I shall never ever allow my religious practises to interfere with my obligation to obey the Laws of the State.'

Something along those lines.

Well, it would be nice to be able to spot those with attitudes incompatible with western values and refuse them entry, but it can't really be done unless you're willing to be indiscriminate.
Then simply be indiscriminate. Islam in its entirety is incompatible with western values. Solve that problem by banning muslims from living in the country.

A Test Act would be easy enough to set up...

'I hereby vow that I shall never ever allow my religious practises to interfere with my obligation to obey the Laws of the State.'

Something along those lines.
It's always easy to say one thing and do another.

Yes. Then what would you do in that scenario?

It's your presumption that the link between islam or cultural mentality is fantasy.
Try proving it.

Let us suppose there is a link between rape and Islamic mentality? Yes, I'd qualify that as fantasy.

And I told you what I'd do in such a fantastical situation already.

I'm wondering what DesignatedMarksman or Ny Nordland think of the Swedish authorities. What would they have to gain by looking the other way while the muslim horde is raping their blondes? Surely they'd do something to stop them? The only reason I can think of to ignore this epidemic is that it might not exist.


Nonsense. There's been a single reported incident which resembles what is written here. The guy who did this was said to be a muslim but his actions aren't known to be inspired by faith. Also, Ulfkotte isn't just a journalist, he's a right wing publicist and security expert. He has a lot to gain from fearmongering. Hm, author of "Der Krieg in unseren Städten - Wie radikale Islamisten Deutschland unterwandern" (The War in our Cities - How Radical Islamists Infiltrate Germany). Such a refreshing NPOV.

Sweden is ruled by Social Democrats for long long long years. Social Democrats is a big champion of multi culturalism and political correctness. They wouldnt want to show the failures of a system they support so passionetaly, would they? And when they dont publish statistics like crime vs immigrants or crime vs muslims, all they have to is to say that they didnt do it because it would be politicall incorrect. We wouldnt want to insult muslims afterall. They are great people. Look how progressive all those majority muslim countries are (!).

This one is from Denmark. I guess most of these immigrants are actually christian latin americans or maybe atheist chineese. That's why the muslim organisation feel the need to step in. I mean, muslims are so peaceful and so great that they feel the need to do something against these "christian" rapes. Oh if you havent figured so far, keep the sarcasm as a gift. Bear in mind that muslims constitude only 2% of the population in Denmark


http://www.cphpost.dk/get/62605.html

From your link:

2nd and 3rd generation immigrants.

They're naturalised Danes then. So it's Danish people raping Danish people? Does it matter what religion they are?

They're naturalised Danes then. So it's Danish people raping Danish people?
A dog in a stable isn't a horse.

A dog in a stable isn't a horse.
So what are you then?

A dorse? :D

Plus the same values are passed on. They are growing up with women without veils and as they are taught that means they are free. I don't think muslims believe a man and a woman can be just friends, if a danish woman is nice to a muslim the man may take this the wrong way.

...if a danish woman is nice to a muslim the man may take this the wrong way.
Ahem, you may want to look at a thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=488770) pretty much entirely devoted to guys taking it the wrong way when girls are nice to them.
Current postcount: 379.
Number of times Islam is mentioned there: 0

Yup. Sometimes things cross your path that aren't worth reading. Eventually you too will learn to differentiate between things worth your time and things that aren't. There's no need to be open minded to the ravings of DM. Perhaps he has a point, but it's most likely lost in the rantings he posts, and I have more important things to do than go looking for it.

That more important things being writing paranoiac responses on posts you havent even read?
I think you should reconsider about how well you spend your time...

Ahem, you may want to look at a thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=488770) pretty much entirely devoted to guys taking it the wrong way when girls are nice to them.
Current postcount: 379.
Number of times Islam is mentioned there: 0

What kind of an argument is that? non of them went on to rape the girl.

From your link:

2nd and 3rd generation immigrants.

They're naturalised Danes then. So it's Danish people raping Danish people? Does it matter what religion they are?

They might be citizens of Denmark, but they arent "danish"...You may return to your fantasy lands where you miss obvious connections and still appear smart...

They might be citizens of Denmark, but they arent "danish"...You may return to your fantasy lands where you miss obvious connections and still appear smart...


There is no difference.

What kind of an argument is that? non of them went on to rape the girl.
I was just putting the sheer ridiculousness of your post into context.

The problem is that none of you people have ever lived in an area like HH-Jenfeld, where almost every second person is an immigrant from somewhere or other. If you had, you would notice that there are retards in both groups, and you'd learn to stop judging people by their ethnicity, or whatever you want to call "culture" (keeping in mind that the culture is Modern European Urban Youth Culture - MEUYC, regardless of ethnicity). You'd meet them first, and then judge them to be retards.

There is no difference.

Many people would disagree with you while many would agree....

There is no difference.
In the eyes of the law. I wonder how many of those 2nd and 3rd generation musims had danish as their first language.

Their hearts and minds belong to another country. There is more to your nationality then where you just happen to live.

In the eyes of the law.
Isn't that all that really matters in the end?


I wonder how many of those 2nd and 3rd generation musims had danish as their first language.

I don't know. Care to back up your insinuation?

keeping in mind that the culture is Modern European Urban Youth Culture - MEUYC, regardless of ethnicity). You'd meet them first, and then judge them to be retards.

MEUYC - that isn't the EU version of "chav", is it?

There is no difference.


Well then, I guess that the danes can just torture any dane to death who endorses headscarves as A-Ok. :)

There is no difference, so it ain't discriminatory.

Isn't that all that really matters in the end?




I don't know. Care to back up your insinuation?

A quick walk to the market or the corner shop should prove it.

MEUYC - that isn't the EU version of "chav", is it?
I just made that up. But it might be a little like that, yes. Although there would be differences between Britain, France and Germany again.

*Listens to "Original Pirate Material"*

The German journalist Udo Ulfkotte...
is currently under suspicion by the hessian public prosecutor for instigating police officers to reveal classified information. And he is well known as an alarmist.
All that talk about how there is more rape and there are more muslims showns no correlation of those two facts. The article doesnt mention any hard facts, like what is the exact amount of rapes, rape percentages by ethnic group etc.

Plus the same values are passed on. They are growing up with women without veils and as they are taught that means they are free. I don't think muslims believe a man and a woman can be just friends, if a danish woman is nice to a muslim the man may take this the wrong way.

This passing on of values thing can't be allowed to continue! Little boys being genitally mutilated because their dad was, children taught that sex is sinfull and they should be guilty about wanting to do it, even (gasp!) a work ethic! It's horrifying.

All children should be taken away from their parents, and brought up together in specially designed facilities, protected from all the weird ideas which adults have. Just wooden blocks and simple musical instruments until they're 18. Teaching them to talk would just be too risky, since it would set their little minds into our own (probably wrong) preconceptions.

When I was little and my mom took me to grown-up parties, she warned me not to talk about sex, religion or politics. What was this thread about, again :D

Their hearts and minds belong to another country. There is more to your nationality then where you just happen to live.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIrrURh8urk&mode=related&search=samy%20deluxe
You mean like this guy? :rolleyes:

A quick walk to the market or the corner shop should prove it.

So, that would be a "No, I can't actually back up my statement".


Well then, I guess that the danes can just torture any dane to death who endorses headscarves as A-Ok.

There is no difference, so it ain't discriminatory.

Emmm, k.....

This passing on of values thing can't be allowed to continue! Little boys being genitally mutilated because their dad was, children taught that sex is sinfull and they should be guilty about wanting to do it, even (gasp!) a work ethic! It's horrifying.

All children should be taken away from their parents, and brought up together in specially designed facilities, protected from all the weird ideas which adults have. Just wooden blocks and simple musical instruments until they're 18. Teaching them to talk would just be too risky, since it would set their little minds into our own (probably wrong) preconceptions.

When I was little and my mom took me to grown-up parties, she warned me not to talk about sex, religion or politics. What was this thread about, again :D

Values are fine when they don't encourage people hurting other people.

Hmmm. So much for immigration and openness, it seems. I'm not even going to post the pics of what the girl looked like after the assault/rape. Horrible. The savages should be castrated and chained to a poll to freeze to death while stuck to an iceberg. Waay too kind.



Muslim Rape Epidemic in Sweden and Norway - Authorities Look the Other Way

Swedish girls Malin and Amanda were on their way to a party on New Year’s Eve when they were assaulted, raped and beaten half to death by four Somali immigrants. Sweden’s largest newspaper has presented the perpetrators as “two men from Sweden, one from Finland and one from Somalia”, a testimony as to how bad the informal censorship is in stories related to immigration in Sweden. Similar incidents are reported with shocking frequency, to the point where some observers fear that law and order is completely breaking down in the country. The number of rape charges in Sweden has tripled in just above twenty years. Rape cases involving children under the age of 15 are six - 6 - times as common today as they were a generation ago. Most other kinds of violent crime have rapidly increased, too. Instability is spreading to most urban and suburban areas.

Some Muslim immigrants admit their bias quite openly. An Islamic Mufti in Copenhagen sparked a political outcry after publicly declaring that women who refuse to wear headscarves are “asking for rape.” Apparently, he’s not the only one thinking this way. “It is not as wrong raping a Swedish girl as raping an Arab girl,” says Hamid. “The Swedish girl gets a lot of help afterwards, and she had probably fucked before, anyway. But the Arab girl will get problems with her family. For her, being raped is a source of shame. It is important that she retains her virginity until she marries.” It was no coincidence that it was a Swedish girl that was gang raped in Rissne – this becomes obvious from the discussion with Ali, Hamid, Abdallah and Richard. All four have disparaging views on Swedish girls, and think this attitude is common among young men with immigrant background. “It is far too easy to get a Swedish whore…… girl, I mean;” says Hamid, and laughs over his own choice of words. “Many immigrant boys have Swedish girlfriends when they are teenagers. But when they get married, they get a proper woman from their own culture who has never been with a boy. That’s what I am going to do. I don’t have too much respect for Swedish girls. I guess you can say they get fucked to pieces.”

The number of rapes committed by Muslim immigrants in Western nations are so extremely high that it is difficult to view them only as random acts of individuals. It resembles warfare. Muhammad himself had forced sex (rape) with several of his slave girls/concubines. This is perfectly allowed, both in the sunna and in the Koran. If you postulate that many of the Muslims in Europe view themselves as a conquering army and that European women are simply war booty, it all makes perfect sense and is in full accordance with Islamic law. Western women are not so much regarded by most Muslims as individuals, but as “their women,” the women who “belong” to hostile Infidels. They are booty, to be taken, just as the land of the Infidels someday will drop, it is believed, into Muslim hand. This is not mere crime, but ideologically-justified crime or rather, in Muslim eyes, attacks on Infidels scarcely qualify as crime. Western women are cheap and offensive. We Muslims are here, here to stay, and we have a right to take advantage of this situation. It is our view of the matter that should prevail. Western goods, like the land on which we now live, belong to Allah and to the best of men—his Believers. Western women, too, essentially belong to us—our future booty. No wonder there is a deep and increasing suspicion against Muslims in the Swedish and European public.



The German journalist Udo Ulfkotte told in a recent interview that in Holland, you can now see examples of young, unveiled Moroccan women with a so-called “smiley”. It means that the girl gets one side of her face cut up from mouth to ear, serving as a warning to other Muslim girls who should refuse to wear the veil. In the Muslim suburb of Courneuve, France, 77 per cent of the veiled women carry veils reportedly because of fear of being harassed or molested by Islamic moral patrols.

An incredibly revealing article that tells us all we need to know about the multiculturalist fetish in Europe and some parts of North America, not to mention the need for change within Islam. Apparently, the Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet reported that 65 percent of rapes of Norwegian women were performed by "non-Western" immigrants – a category that, in Norway, consists mostly of Muslims. The article quoted a professor of social anthropology at the University of Oslo (note: her name is Unni Wikan) as saying that "Norwegian women must take their share of responsibility for these rapes" because Muslim men found their manner of dress provocative. The professor's conclusion was not that Muslim men living in the West needed to adjust to Western norms, but the exact opposite: "Norwegian women must realize that we live in a multicultural society and adapt themselves to it."

Swedish laws prohibiting “hate speech” against racial minorities have been vigorously enforced. There have, for example, been a number of gang-rapes of Swedish women by Muslim immigrants. But Swedes must be careful what they say about them. On May 25, neo-Nazi Bjorn Bjorkqvist was convicted and sentenced to two months in prison for writing, “I don’t think I am alone in feeling sick when reading about how Swedish girls are raped by immigrant hordes.”
another bigot rant... obviously, rape never happened in europe other than by muslims and it only becomes an epidemic when muslims do it. this thread is not worth the bytes wasted on writing it...

So, that would be a "No, I can't actually back up my statement".

I sincerely doubt a survey into peoples first language has ever been taken, i can't back it up with stats but i can with experiance.

... if a danish woman is nice to a muslim the man may take this the wrong way.
and if a woman is nice to a fellow country man the man may take this the wrong way. Proven by the fact that most of the rapes are committed by a countryman.

YES! I did see the Danish article. It doesn't say where they got the percentage. Of all rapes (most aren't reported), of reported rapes or of those who actually have been found quilty of a rape.

i can't back it up with stats.
Thank you. That's all I need.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_law_on_secularity_and_conspicuous_religious_symbols_in_schools

and a few extracts..

The Stasi commission's report
In July 2003, French President Jacques Chirac set up an investigative committee (commission Stasi) to examine how the principle of laïcité should apply in practice. It consisted of 20 people headed by Bernard Stasi, then ombudsman of France (médiateur de la République). While an obvious focal point of the commission was the wearing of religious attire in public schools, the commission noted in its report that the issues went a long way further.

The Stasi Commission published its report on 11 December 2003, indicating that ostentatious displays of religion violated the secular rules of the French school system. The report recommended a law against pupils wearing "conspicuous" signs of belonging to a religion, meaning any visible symbol meant to be easily noticed by others. Prohibited items would include headscarves for Muslim girls, yarmulkes for Jewish boys, turbans for Sikh boys and large Christian crosses. The Commission recommended allowing the wearing of discreet symbols of faith such as small crosses, Stars of David or Fatima's hands.


For those not wearing it, the meaning of the Islamic headscarf stigmatised the young girl or the young woman as responsible for attracting male desire, a vision which fundamentally contradicts the principle of equality between men and women – although this overlooks the fact that the Qur'an instructs all Muslims - both men and women - to dress modestly (albeit the specific requirements of "modesty" are different for Muslim men and women). The purpose of dressing according to hijab varies from person to person. Some women see the headscarf as a way to preserve their modesty, submit to Allah, and to achieve respect equally regardless of physical appearance; others, forced to wear it against their wishes, see it as a way to keep women hidden and subservient, and as a way to justify violence towards women who choose not to wear it.


Recently however, in addition to the issue of the headscarf, tension (mostly over religious issues) and even violence in schools has increased in France. Many school representatives have faced these issues alone for 20 years now, often in difficult regions (officially recognised as such), already troubled by student violence and rejection of the principles of education. They have highlighted the tensions provoked by the claims of religious and group identities, like the formation of gangs, for instance. They express concerns about the frequent violence toward themselves as well, in particular toward female teachers.

Local associations also frequently call for help for young girls and women, daughters of immigrants, living in problem areas. They see these girls as the silent majority and as victims of pressures within the family or within the neighbourhood. Local associations believe these girls need protection and, with this in mind, they asked the political authorities to issue strong warnings to Islamic fundamentalist groups.

Local associations noted in particular that a lot of pressure goes on young girls to force them to wear the headscarf - pressure which did not occur to the same extent 20 years ago (even though France had a Muslim population of a similar size at that time). The girls' families, in particular their brothers (more often than their fathers), sometimes force them to dress and act in ways they do not choose to of their own free will. The brothers may see the fact that their sisters show their hair or wear jeans instead of dresses as signs of western depravity. In that case, brothers may abuse and threaten their sisters. Incidents have occurred where persons have regarded young Muslim girls who refused to adopt the headscarf and dress code as "prostitutes" and have subjected them to gang rape. This view of the headscarf receives particular emphasis from the now famous (in France) feminist group Ni Putes Ni Soumises (Neither Whores Nor Submissives), which campaigns to defend the right of women to go without the headscarf - if they wish - without losing their status as "decent" women, and not just to be seen as sex objects for men to abuse freely for their pleasure.

Yay for the feminists! Whatever serves your argument, hey?

and if a woman is nice to a fellow country man the man may take this the wrong way. Proven by the fact that most of the rapes are committed by a countryman.

YES! I did see the Danish article. It doesn't say where they got the percentage. Of all rapes (most aren't reported), of reported rapes or of those who actually have been found quilty of a rape.

The stats given by Ny Nordland proves that muslim men are more likely to take it the wrong way. I quote my earlier link:

" b: a kiss equals sex - Inter-sex friendship doesn't exist, therefore any small gesture of approval from a white woman will be blown up by the Muslim man inside his head. That's why so many rapes occur, the woman attempts to be nice or friendly, and it is mistaken by the Muslim. And since their mind is geared towards "a little finger is the same as the whole hand", "no" is not a valid answer by this time.... "

Thank you. That's all I need.
Use stats to prove what i said wrong.

The stats given by Ny Nordland proves that muslim men are more likely to take it the wrong way. I quote my earlier link:


Sadly for your argument, Ny Nordland is a well known racist. Skews his and your points slightly.

I sincerely doubt a survey into peoples first language has ever been taken, i can't back it up with stats but i can with experiance.
Well I can say that more than 6% of Finns don't speak Finnish as their first language but I don't think anyone thinks that they aren't Finns because of that


:D I know, I know.

I usually quote statistics. If you cant take statistics seriously, it means you dont take reality seriously. Go back to your own delusions.

Most immigrants, especially muslims see women as 2nd class citizens. Some (maybe most) think they are whores because they dont wear head scarfs and have sex before marriage. These rapes have such cultural connections, which I thought was obvious. But Political Correctness to the level of pure stupidity also causes blindness, as I see...
The point is European culture(s) are being replaced by this inferior cultures by mass immigration. I say inferior because of the way they treat women and homesexuals and other shitty stuff...

Maybe you should just shut up?

In that case, brothers may abuse and threaten their sisters. Incidents have occurred where persons have regarded young Muslim girls who refused to adopt the headscarf and dress code as "prostitutes" and have subjected them to gang rape. This view of the headscarf receives particular emphasis from the now famous (in France) feminist group Ni Putes Ni Soumises (Neither Whores Nor Submissives), which campaigns to defend the right of women to go without the headscarf - if they wish - without losing their status as "decent" women, and not just to be seen as sex objects for men to abuse freely for their pleasure.
i'm all for doing everything possible to defend and inform young muslim of their freedom to choose to wear or not the scarf and their right to keep a decent status. unfortunately, i get the feeling that when the government enforced this with a blanket law, it fuelled religious tensions and extremist views.

Use stats to prove what i said wrong.
No, thats not how this works.

You claim something- you back it up.

I don't have to, the onus is on the person who made the claim in the first place. :)

Sadly for your argument, Ny Nordland is a well known racist. Skews his and your points slightly.

I withdraw what i said then. I personally don't see myself as a racist, however i don't like any religion that has pointless laws and tries to control its peoples excessivly. Is there a seperate word for hating religions?

Is there a seperate word for hating religions?
Intelligence? :D

another bigot rant... obviously, rape never happened in europe other than by muslims and it only becomes an epidemic when muslims do it. this thread is not worth the bytes wasted on writing it...

You just quoted the entire parent post! Then complained about wasting of bytes! I'm sure there's a FFLA (four-letter-acronym) for that!

oops, I'm being frivolous :rolleyes: perhaps it was seeing the whole original post ...

i'm all for doing everything possible to defend and inform young muslim of their freedom to choose to wear or not the scarf and their right to keep a decent status. unfortunately, i get the feeling that when the government enforced this with a blanket law, it fuelled religious tensions and extremist views.

I'd like to point out that muslim girls in favour of the Ban ( in France ) outnumber muslim girls opposed to the Ban. 49%-43%.

Muslim males - for some reason - appearently had different feelings on the matter.

Is it your opinion that we should roll over and play dead whenever some troublesome group has a hissyfit?

another bigot rant... obviously, rape never happened in europe other than by muslims and it only becomes an epidemic when muslims do it. this thread is not worth the bytes wasted on writing it...

Ignorant people dismissing what they dont understand. You remind me of a garbagemen dismissing quantum theory...:rolleyes:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11248130&postcount=28

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11248400&postcount=71

Sadly for your argument, Ny Nordland is a well known racist. Skews his and your points slightly.


It is true that Ny Nordland systemically overstates the case.
( When it comes to bad immigrants.)
It is also true that you consistently seek to deny that a case might actually exist.
( When it comes to bad immigrants. )

Given those 2 facts, a rational person would be more inclined to believe him than you..

So sick of threads like this
oh muslims did this, muslims did that,there wasnt any crime before immigrants came to my country.
There problem is with people not with specifically immigrants and muslims.
Furthermore, ny nordland is a hypocrit.Im sorry but you are.You ask people to back their statements up with facts and figures and then call them idiotic if they dont.Let me just say that almost every post I have ever read from you is racist, bigoted or recationary, usually making sweeping statements backed with no facts whatsovever other than your own racist veiws.

Ignorant people dismissing what they dont understand. You remind me of a garbagemen dismissing quantum theory...

There's a lot of overqualified physicists out there. Considered a career in the sanitation industry yourself, dude ? :p

Yay for the feminists! Whatever serves your argument, hey?

I thought you were one of the most PC people here? Are you arguments too weak that you have sunked this low?

It is true that Ny Nordland systemically overstates the case.
It is also true that you consistently seek to deny that a case might actually exist.

Given those 2 facts, a rational person would be more inclined to believe him than you..

What do I deny?

Do I deny some people who rape are Muslim? No.

Do I deny rape occurs? No.

Do I deny rape is abhorrent? No.

Do I deny people in general commit crimes including rape, regardless of religion? No.

Do I deny there is a 'rape epidemic' caused by Muslims? Yeah, I deny that, as any sane, intelligent person does.

Sadly for your argument, Ny Nordland is a well known racist. Skews his and your points slightly.

I quote statistics. The fact that I'm "racist" or not doesnt change the reality. It just shows your bias which is to the level of pure stupidity...

The stats given by Ny Nordland proves that muslim men are more likely to take it the wrong way. I quote my earlier link:

" b: a kiss equals sex - Inter-sex friendship doesn't exist, therefore any small gesture of approval from a white woman will be blown up by the Muslim man inside his head. That's why so many rapes occur, the woman attempts to be nice or friendly, and it is mistaken by the Muslim. And since their mind is geared towards "a little finger is the same as the whole hand", "no" is not a valid answer by this time.... "
nice generalisations there...

Anyway I know that e.g. relationship violence is a huge problem in immigration families. It's true that many of them have problems adapting in to a foreign country (culture). Way too many kids end up on the streets, causing all sort of trouble. But the answer isn't bashing about it on the forums. We should help them to adapt, teach the language etc. It's insane that a person who's waiting for the result from the immigration office (or what ever it is) is not allowed to work. He could pay his living, but we won't let him.

ooops, back to the topic at hand. It's not Islam that makes (some of) them think women are 2nd class citizens. It's their culture. Our culture has been very similar for centuries. They are just a little bit behind.

And while Ny Nordland wants to bash Sweden let me remind you that just yesterday a Swedish muslim got a 4 year sentence because he forced his child (girl) to have a circumcision.

What do I deny?

Do I deny some people who rape are Muslim? No.

Do I deny rape occurs? No.

Do I deny rape is abhorrent? No.

Do I deny people in general commit crimes including rape, regardless of religion? No.

Do I deny there is a 'rape epidemic' caused by Muslims? Yeah, I deny that, as any sane, intelligent person does.

Righteo - nitpicking as opposed to doing summat.
Sophistry - the weapon of the slacker.

*notches up ANOTHER point for Ny Nordland ( who is otherwise rather disliked by Bogmarsh ) *

What do I deny?

Do I deny some people who rape are Muslim? No.

Do I deny rape occurs? No.

Do I deny rape is abhorrent? No.

Do I deny people in general commit crimes including rape, regardless of religion? No.

Do I deny there is a 'rape epidemic' caused by Muslims? Yeah, I deny that, as any sane, intelligent person does.

When something like 60% of rapes are caused by 2% (muslim) of the population, it means that there is a rape epidemic caused by muslims. Please dont insult sane intelligent people...

Maybe you should just shut up?

Most immigrants are muslims and we know how women are treated in muslim countries. It's not my fault if you are unable to connect dots yourself...

It is true that Ny Nordland systemically overstates the case.
( When it comes to bad immigrants.)
It is also true that you consistently seek to deny that a case might actually exist.
( When it comes to bad immigrants. )

Given those 2 facts, a rational person would be more inclined to believe him than you..

Not really. The rational person would recognise that rapes are being commited for various reasons by various men. The rational person would then go on to 1. seek to punish the offenders in a quick and appropriate way and 2. look for viable ways to reduce the number of crimes.

When it comes to deterring individuals from criminal behaviour, social pressure has been proven to work far more effectively than legislation and punishment. Therefore, the way to go would be to make rape socially inaccepatble in all groups of society.

The main issue I have with this article, no matter who wrote it because the issue is actually there, is the professor who states that it is not the immigrants' responsibility, but the natives of the country. She says that the girls must realize blah blah and change their style of dress and all their habits. I am an immigrant, when I came here I learned the language, and I am still learning the culture. When someone, anyone, moves to a new country it is their responsibility to make the change. If you liked your way of life so much back where you were then why did you leave? I left the states because I didn't like my quality of life and I found better in another country. I would guess that most immigrants, and especially refugees, are going to be able to say the same thing.

It's personal to me, because I've made the effort, I've put in the energy, but there are people out there telling entire countries to change their entire culture to keep a percentage of the non-native population from raping and beating and using and abusing their girls! It's rediculous. Absolutely ludicrous. Egotistical and stupid. If you move to France, you learn French, eat French food, celebrate French holidays. If you move to the US you learn English, eat American food, celebrate American holidays. What you do personally, religiously or sexually or in your family, is something you do privately. To demand an entire nation change to fit your private beliefs to keep you from being a total and complete jerkoff is so dumb I can't even express it.

Frustrating! :headbang:

Thank you for writing the nearly unwritable. It seems to me that for too long, we've been forced either to side with the kind of racist idiocy that started this thread (and was so ably shown up by Anglachel and Anguirel's parody --- to whom my thanks!) or to side with the kind of mindlessness that sees no point in preserving any part of the host culture. The resulting silencing of common sense is painful.

What Ellanesse has said is self-evident, yet I don't see it said often enough without being extended into the kind of xenophobia shown in the OP. But it's unmistakeable. If we go to somewhere like Turkey or Saudi Arabia from the West, they assume we'll avoid offending their culture. In some cases we may even be imprisoned or flogged for violating certain of their rules (serving alcohol at a party is one that comes to mind). What's the big deal? If I can observe the ways of my homeland without violating their laws or offending their sensibilities, that's fine (although it may be foolish on my part if it means I don't learn the beauty of my host country). If I go to their country, I have no right to break their rules, and if I don't like it, I should stay out.

If we learned this attitude from childhood, with a corresponding sense of respect for our hosts, it would go a long way to overcoming our reputation as "ugly (Yanks/Brits/[Other]"). Who knows? Maybe we'd even outgrow our apparent need to invade countries we don't understand and "liberate" them from not being like us.

By the same token, as Ellanesse has said so eloquently, if someone comes here, the normative and prescriptive value of their laws and culture don't --- can't --- come with them. Naturally, if they can keep their ways without violating our laws or offending our sensibilities, fine (although again, it may be foolish on their part if it means they don't learn the beauty of their host country). If they come here they have no right to violate our rules, and if they don't like it, they should stay out.

The key here is parity. As long as there is no parity of treatment, people will feel aggrieved and conflict will escalate. There will be xenophobia and misundestanding and hatred and suspicion.

And people will keep starting threads like this one.

Even supposing that such an incident as described in the OP really happened exactly as described (and I have my doubts) I doubt it means what the poster is trying to say. He might just as easily use the murder-inciting behaviour of some neo-Nazis and white supremacists to claim that all neo-Nazis and white supremacists believe in committing genocide against non-whites. Ooh, listen! I hear ... silence.

Has he/she ever banged on about all the other rapes that take place on a daily basis? How many threads has he started about the shame of legal systems that allow accused rapists (even WASPs) to depict their victims as sluts who "were gagging for it" and go scot-free? Or does he only care about the honour of women when he can use that honour as a pretext for ranting against whoever is on his "hated, devilish non-whites of the month" list?

Gah! Sometimes I wish there really were more than one human race, as the pure race fantasists imagine. My version of it would include a human race that doesn't hate all the other humans. How's that for irony?

So sick of threads like this
oh muslims did this, muslims did that,there wasnt any crime before immigrants came to my country.
There problem is with people not with specifically immigrants and muslims.
Furthermore, ny nordland is a hypocrit.Im sorry but you are.You ask people to back their statements up with facts and figures and then call them idiotic if they dont.Let me just say that almost every post I have ever read from you is racist, bigoted or recationary, usually making sweeping statements backed with no facts whatsovever other than your own racist veiws.

It's not my fault if you are unable to comprehend what you read. Try reading again...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.ph...0&postcount=28

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.ph...0&postcount=71

Not really. The rational person would recognise that rapes are being commited for various reasons by various men. The rational person would then go on to 1. seek to punish the offenders in a quick and appropriate way and 2. look for viable ways to reduce the number of crimes.

When it comes to deterring individuals from criminal behaviour, social pressure has been proven to work far more effectively than legislation and punishment. Therefore, the way to go would be to make rape socially inaccepatble in all groups of society.

Kindly refer to the wikipedia article.

I agree with you.

And one obvious place to start is to make it very plain and simple that any appeals to shariatic values are completely and totally unacceptable.

nice generalisations there...

Anyway I know that e.g. relationship violence is a huge problem in immigration families. It's true that many of them have problems adapting in to a foreign country (culture). Way too many kids end up on the streets, causing all sort of trouble. But the answer isn't bashing about it on the forums. We should help them to adapt, teach the language etc. It's insane that a person who's waiting for the result from the immigration office (or what ever it is) is not allowed to work. He could pay his living, but we won't let him.

ooops, back to the topic at hand. It's not Islam that makes (some of) them think women are 2nd class citizens. It's their culture. Our culture has been very similar for centuries. They are just a little bit behind.

And while Ny Nordland wants to bash Sweden let me remind you that just yesterday a Swedish muslim got a 4 year sentence because he forced his child (girl) to have a circumcision.

Sweden doesnt publish any crime vs immigrant statistics. This is common in most countries. Isnt what sweden is doing against freedom of information??

OK mr Nyland. You've got what you came for, a fast and furious slugfest where you can show your quickness of wit and integrity of position.

I for one am impressed with your ability to take it from both ends without wincing.

Now how about you repost your original post with sources. Yes, you've mentioned some in the debate, but since you obviously had them ready, why weren't they in the original post? The first half of it isn't in your style, and is probably a quote. Give the source. Use footnotes if you have to.

I won't call you a racist, since people have called me that for stating the obvious. It's true that some subjects can't be talked about without someone throwing that one at you.

But I will call you a Troll. I'm a victim too, it's no disgrace. You're a very good troll!

... Either that, or she was dressed for sex and therefore deserved it. ...


Yeah, doesn't that head-to-toe covering, so you only see the woman's eyes and hands, just get you so hot?
:rolleyes:

When something like 60% of rapes are caused by 2% (muslim) of the population, it means that there is a rape epidemic caused by muslims. Please dont insult sane intelligent people...
ep·i·dem·ic
adj.

1. Spreading rapidly and extensively by infection and affecting many individuals in an area or a population at the same time: an epidemic outbreak of influenza.
2. Widely prevalent: epidemic discontent.
n.
1. An outbreak of a contagious disease that spreads rapidly and widely.
2. A rapid spread, growth, or development: an unemployment epidemic.

I'd like to point out that muslim girls in favour of the Ban ( in France ) outnumber muslim girls opposed to the Ban. 49%-43%.

Muslim males - for some reason - appearently had different feelings on the matter.

Is it your opinion that we should roll over and play dead whenever some troublesome group has a hissyfit?
no it's my opinion that you should not infringe on the right of religious freedom of the remaining 43%.

OK mr Nyland. You've got what you came for, a fast and furious slugfest where you can show your quickness of wit and integrity of position.

I for one am impressed with your ability to take it from both ends without wincing.

Now how about you repost your original post with sources. Yes, you've mentioned some in the debate, but since you obviously had them ready, why weren't they in the original post? The first half of it isn't in your style, and is probably a quote. Give the source. Use footnotes if you have to.

I won't call you a racist, since people have called me that for stating the obvious. It's true that some subjects can't be talked about without someone throwing that one at you.

But I will call you a Troll. I'm a victim too, it's no disgrace. You're a very good troll!

ROFL...I'm not the OP, you silly, I didnt start the thread....

no it's my opinion that you should not infringe on the right of religious freedom of the remaining 43%.


*shrug* Read the European Convention of Human Rights.

*hisses* We may darned well abrogate Religious Freedom whenever that is deemed necessary for maintaining a Free and Democratic society.

Ignorant people dismissing what they dont understand. You remind me of a garbagemen dismissing quantum theory...:rolleyes:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11248130&postcount=28

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11248400&postcount=71
and you remind me of the fascists pigs that ruled europe and thought they had the right of slandering people for exercising freedom of religion.

Kindly refer to the wikipedia article.

I agree with you.

And one obvious place to start is to make it very plain and simple that any appeals to shariatic values are completely and totally unacceptable.

Definitely. Not so much as a value system, but for the simple reason that every country has its legal structure, and only one legal structure. Anybody withing that country has to adhere to those laws, it is inacceptable to try and set up a parallel jurisdiction.
Personal freedom should be guaranteed, so if a Muslima wants to follow sharia law and wear a headscarf, that's at her discretion. Forcing it on anybody else, however, is not acceptable or tolerable.

Definitely. Not so much as a value system, but for the simple reason that every country has its legal structure, and only one legal structure. Anybody withing that country has to adhere to those laws, it is inacceptable to try and set up a parallel jurisdiction.
Personal freedom should be guaranteed, so if a Muslima wants to follow sharia law and wear a headscarf, that's at her discretion. Forcing it on anybody else, however, is not acceptable or tolerable.


*agrees*

Completely.

Emphasis by me.

*shrug* Read the European Convention of Human Rights.

*hisses* We may darned well abrogate Religious Freedom whenever that is deemed necessary for maintaining a Free and Democratic society.
let me quote you article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which is above the European Convention:
"Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

i.e. any government that removes this right is breaking a fundamental Human right.

Uh, anyone else lose jolt there?

I bet less gun control would solve this problem quickly.

and you remind me of the fascists pigs that ruled europe and thought they had the right of slandering people for exercising freedom of religion.

So, are you saying it's muslims right to rape girls because of exercising freedom of religion?

Some Muslim immigrants admit their bias quite openly. An Islamic Mufti in Copenhagen sparked a political outcry after publicly declaring that women who refuse to wear headscarves are “asking for rape.” Apparently, he’s not the only one thinking this way. “It is not as wrong raping a Swedish girl as raping an Arab girl,” says Hamid. “The Swedish girl gets a lot of help afterwards, and she had probably fucked before, anyway. But the Arab girl will get problems with her family. For her, being raped is a source of shame. It is important that she retains her virginity until she marries.”

So are there no Swedish men who have the balls to keep Swedish women safe? If there was a scumbag advocating rape or committing rapes in my community I'd like to think he'd have to turn himself over to the police for his own safety.

So, are you saying it's muslims right to rape girls because of exercising freedom of religion?
i don't the see the right to rape in the UN charter or any religious scripture... try again.

I bet less gun control would solve this problem quickly.
Or maybe an aggressive community watch program with some big viking guys patrolling the streets.

Definitely. Not so much as a value system, but for the simple reason that every country has its legal structure, and only one legal structure. Anybody withing that country has to adhere to those laws, it is inacceptable to try and set up a parallel jurisdiction.
Personal freedom should be guaranteed, so if a Muslima wants to follow sharia law and wear a headscarf, that's at her discretion. Forcing it on anybody else, however, is not acceptable or tolerable.

Will you please at least admit the possibility that they might force it on anybody else, like in muslim countries, when they become the majority in european countries?

i don't the see the right to rape in the UN charter... try again.
U.N. troops have been convicted of rape many times, so maybe it is.

let me quote you article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which is above the European Convention:

No, it is not.

I defy you to find one single Ruling by the ECHR where the UDHR trumped the EDHR.

I am accusing you of telling a lie.

So are there no Swedish men who have the balls to keep Swedish women safe? If there was a scumbag advocating rape or committing rapes in my community I'd like to think he'd have to turn himself over to the police for his own safety.
Something tells me that Swedes, unlike Americans, are used to having the police and courts settle all disputes and offenses.

They don't have a tradition of taking people to the woodshed.

i don't the see the right to rape in the UN charter... try again.

So what are you blabbering about? I'm not for restricting free exercising of religions. I wouldnt have any problems with muslims as long as they arent more than 0.01% of the population...

ROFL...I'm not the OP, you silly, I didnt start the thread....

I admit to being silly. I assumed that the OP (whose name is too silly to quote, and hasn't hung aroung to see the outcome) was someone's dupe.
It was also very silly of me to think it was you. So sorry. :)

No, it is not.

I defy you to find one single Ruling by the ECHR where the UDHR trumped the EDHR.

I am accusing you of telling a lie.
and i'm accusing you of talking like a fascist when you say that any rulling that breaks the UDHR isn't an infringement to fundamental human rights.

I wouldnt have any problems with muslims as long as they arent more than 0.01% of the population...
now you're talking like a fascist... please proceed since you're exposing how ridiculous and dangerous your beliefs are.

So are there no Swedish men who have the balls to keep Swedish women safe? If there was a scumbag advocating rape or committing rapes in my community I'd like to think he'd have to turn himself over to the police for his own safety.

They'd put those men to jail for life because they would probably consider it as an hate crime. Sweden might sometimes be a leftist police state, like stalinist USSR.
Besides, they shouldnt lower themselves to that level. These problems should be solved by law.

Something tells me that Swedes, unlike Americans, are used to having the police and courts settle all disputes and offenses.

They don't have a tradition of taking people to the woodshed.
Well, maybe there is such a thing as being too civilized.

and i'm accusing you of talking like a fascist when you say that any rulling that breaks the UDHR isn't an infringement to fundamental human rights.


Can you get ONE RULING by the ECHR that says that UDHR trumps the EDHR?

Stop dodging - and take it like a man.

You have asserted that the UDHR trumps the EDHR.
An assertion which is a lie - no Ruling says so.

Liar.

U.N. troops have been convicted of rape many times, so maybe it is.
UN troops are humans, not perfect examples of humans.

They'd put those men to jail for life because they would probably consider it as an hate crime. Sweden might sometimes be a leftist police state, like stalinist USSR.
Besides, they shouldnt lower themselves to that level. These problems should be solved by law.
And if they're not solved by law? I don't have a sister, but if I did and she was raped I'd like to think that I'd make sure the rapist would never again be able to commit another crime. If I got caught, so be it.

now you're talking like a fascist... please proceed since you're exposing how ridiculous and dangerous your beliefs are.

Yes, deportations are very dangerous. We'd better let criminals free instead of deporting them, like in the UK, right?
Look up what fascist means. Or not, you sound amusing when you are ignorant...

And if they're not solved by law? I don't have a sister, but if I did and she was raped I'd like to think that I'd make sure the rapist would never again be able to commit another crime. If I got caught, so be it.

In that case, I'm glad you're not my brother.

Can you get ONE RULING by the ECHR that says that UDHR trumps the EDHR?

Stop dodging - and take it like a man.

You have asserted that the UDHR trumps the EDHR.
An assertion which is a lie - no Ruling says so.

Liar.
rather be called a liar by a fascist, than be a fascist like you.

rather be called a liar by a fascist, than a fascist by a liar.

You seem to use that word a lot. I do not think it means what you think it means.

And if they're not solved by law? I don't have a sister, but if I did and she was raped I'd like to think that I'd make sure the rapist would never again be able to commit another crime. If I got caught, so be it.

If it isnt solved by law, write it to newspapers, your MP, make a scandal out of it. Vote/join anti-immigrant parties, be politically active, mention your story to everyone...

Yes, deportations are very dangerous. We'd better let criminals free instead of deporting them, like in the UK, right?
Look up what fascist means. Or not, you sound amusing when you are ignorant...

All animals are equal. But some animals are more equal than immigrant animals, it would seem.

They'd put those men to jail for life because they would probably consider it as an hate crime. Sweden might sometimes be a leftist police state, like stalinist USSR.
Besides, they shouldnt lower themselves to that level. These problems should be solved by law.

Agree 100%. When people pre-empt the law, it becomes irrelevant to try the original culprit, since punishment is now impossible.
What you get is a feud. The idea that one group commits a crime, and a suitable response is a feud, where both sides kill each other until they can't any more, and the side which was wronged first ends up with (about) 50% of the punishment, belongs in the stone-age.
Where, for the most part, evolution has left it.

If it isnt solved by law, write it to newspapers, your MP, make a scandal out of it. Vote/join anti-immigrant parties, be politically active, mention your story to everyone...
Meh, I used to be a little bit of a criminal, and sometimes I still think like one.

You seem to use that word a lot. I do not think it means what you think it means.
just the kind of argument fascists generally use really....

All animals are equal. But some animals are more equal than immigrant animals, it would seem.

If all animals are equal, some animals should respect the habitat of other some animals, right?

ep·i·dem·ic
adj.

1. Spreading rapidly and extensively by infection and affecting many individuals in an area or a population at the same time: an epidemic outbreak of influenza.
2. Widely prevalent: epidemic discontent.
n.
1. An outbreak of a contagious disease that spreads rapidly and widely.
2. A rapid spread, growth, or development: an unemployment epidemic.

Have you ever heard of figurative speech? People whose iq is above 50 do it sometimes....

just the kind of argument fascists generally use really....

I figured out the Assis-doublespeech!

Fascist ( noun ): anyone who doesn't agree with Assis!

and i'm accusing you of talking like a fascist when you say that any rulling that breaks the UDHR isn't an infringement to fundamental human rights.
Who cares about the UDHR? It's only an 'advisory' thing. That basically makes it a token gesture which is utterly irrelevant. If my country's domestic law suddenly stopped treating muslims with kid gloves, then nothing else would be relevant. Particularly something like the UDHR, which isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

If it isnt solved by law, write it to newspapers, your MP, make a scandal out of it. Vote/join anti-immigrant parties, be politically active, mention your story to everyone...
Sometimes the system has rotted away so much that it's impossible to change society through legal channels. Writing to your MP won't change a thing. Dumping the bullet-ridden body of some rapist or radical imam outwise his mosque during friday prayers would get the point across much more effectively.

Yes, deportations are very dangerous. We'd better let criminals free instead of deporting them, like in the UK, right?
Look up what fascist means. Or not, you sound amusing when you are ignorant...
I wouldnt have any problems with muslims as long as they arent more than 0.01% of the population...
you seem to be implying that 99.99% of the muslims are criminals... you're so blinded by your hate that you can't see how pathetic your words are.

Meh, I used to be a little bit of a criminal, and sometimes I still think like one.

Besides the obvious moral issues, it is also practically wrong to beat up immigrants, it draws sympathy for them and that is detrimental to your original cause (avoiding rapes).

Who cares about the UDHR?.
not fascists, not nazis, not oppressors, not islamic fundamentalists and obviously not you.

Dumping the bullet-ridden body of some rapist or radical imam outwise his mosque during friday prayers would get the point across much more effectively.

They'll certainly behave if you do that kinda thing :rolleyes:

Besides the obvious moral issues, it is also practically wrong to beat up immigrants, it draws sympathy for them and that is detrimental to your original cause (avoiding rapes).
you're exposing your true concern...

you seem to be implying that 99.99% of the muslims are criminals... you're so blind that you can't see how pathetic your words are.

No, I meant that islam is a foreign culture and it becomes a problem when muslims get too numerous. So I was arguing for deportation. And you said it is very dangerous. To that I said, Not deporting them is more dengerous (as in UK example). Maybe I should have said almost all countries deport some people. I thought that was obvious.
It is your comprehension/reading skills that are pathetic...

I figured out the Assis-doublespeech!

Fascist ( noun ): anyone who doesn't agree with Assis!

You can add "hate-filled slanderer" and "racist" as synonyms for anyone who disagrees with Assis.

If all animals are equal, some animals should respect the habitat of other some animals, right?

Thanks for proving Orwell right :rolleyes:

Besides the obvious moral issues, it is also practically wrong to beat up immigrants, it draws sympathy for them and that is detrimental to your original cause (avoiding rapes).
I'm not against immigrants, I'm against rapists. You've got to make it clear that rape is unacceptable and will be dealt with harshly. It would be nice if the police and courts would send that message out, but if they don't, somebody must.

And if they're not solved by law? I don't have a sister, but if I did and she was raped I'd like to think that I'd make sure the rapist would never again be able to commit another crime. If I got caught, so be it.
You know, rape also happens to men. You don't have to speculate about what you would do if some hypothetical sister of yours were raped. Just think of how you would feel if it happened to you.

You know, rape also happens to men. You don't have to speculate about what you would do if some hypothetical sister of yours were raped. Just think of how you would feel if it happened to you.
Well, if anyone is going to get it in the ass, I'm not going to be the last one.

Who cares about the UDHR? It's only an 'advisory' thing. That basically makes it a token gesture which is utterly irrelevant. If my country's domestic law suddenly stopped treating muslims with kid gloves, then nothing else would be relevant. Particularly something like the UDHR, which isn't worth the paper it's printed on.


Sometimes the system has rotted away so much that it's impossible to change society through legal channels. Writing to your MP won't change a thing. Dumping the bullet-ridden body of some rapist or radical imam outwise his mosque during friday prayers would get the point across much more effectively.

Pim Fortyn made a very popular political party just because he exposed how muslims treated women and homosexuals. If he werent assasinanted, he might have become the PM of Holland. Things can be done in a right way.

I'm not against immigrants, I'm against rapists. You've got to make it clear that rape is unacceptable and will be dealt with harshly. It would be nice if the police and courts would send that message out, but if they don't, somebody must.
On this much, I agree with you. If I were ever raped, I would give the system a chance to provide me with justice, but if the system failed I would obtain justice for myself. No rapist should ever be released from prison, and if my (hypothetical) rapist were released I would personally hunt them down and kill them.

What I object to about this thread is the way this racial crap gets thrown in to the mix. A rapist is a rapist no matter what religion they follow or what ethnic group they belong to. The last thing we need is to further encourage the "white boys will be boys" mentality.

Who cares about the UDHR? It's only an 'advisory' thing. That basically makes it a token gesture which is utterly irrelevant. If my country's domestic law suddenly stopped treating muslims with kid gloves, then nothing else would be relevant. Particularly something like the UDHR, which isn't worth the paper it's printed on.


Sometimes the system has rotted away so much that it's impossible to change society through legal channels. Writing to your MP won't change a thing. Dumping the bullet-ridden body of some rapist or radical imam outwise his mosque during friday prayers would get the point across much more effectively.

Oh sorry, did I miss something? Are you feeling a bit irrelevant perhaps?
If the point you are trying to make is "I am a bad boy with an automatic weapon, come fight me," then yeah, you'd get your point across.
If you're trying to make a "society-changing" or even "law-changing" point, then I think you ought to hone your verbal skills a bit. Or at least, just keep talking.

"Yer russky talks big but frankly ... we think he's short on know-how"
General Turgidson, in "Dr Strangelove"

No, I meant that islam is a foreign culture and it becomes a problem when muslims get too numerous.
so is christianity. maybe you should go back to norse myths then and deport all christians, leaving only in your country those whose faith is norse mythology. now wouldn't that solve all your population problems?

On this much, I agree with you. If I were ever raped, I would give the system a chance to provide me with justice, but if the system failed I would obtain justice for myself. No rapist should ever be released from prison, and if my (hypothetical) rapist were released I would personally hunt them down and kill them.

*makes a mental note not to rape Bottle* :p

You know, rape also happens to men. You don't have to speculate about what you would do if some hypothetical sister of yours were raped. Just think of how you would feel if it happened to you.
The odds of it happening to me are rather low. I'd fight and willingly die before it happened to me. Plus I'm not very cute.

so is christianity. maybe you should go back to norse myths then and deport all christians, leaving only in your country those whose faith is norse mythology.

Are you muslim or something? Where are you from? You seem to be veeery ignorant. The christianity is here (scandinavia) for like a millenia. Islam is in Scandinavia for like 40 years....

The odds of it happening to me are rather low. I'd fight and willingly die before it happened to me.

Your odds are, admittedly, relatively low because you are male. However, your willingness to fight/die to prevent rape don't really have much to do with it. A great many rape victims also are willing to fight and die to prevent rape, but they can be overpowered or taken by surprise and incapacitated. Don't make the mistake of thinking that rape victims simply don't fight hard enough...many of them fight harder than you can imagine.


Plus I'm not very cute.
Has nothing to do with rape. There is exactly zero correlation between attractiveness of a victim and likelihood of rape.

And, at any rate, my entire point was that you shouldn't think of rape only as something that happens to other people. You can empathize by realizing that you, too, could be a rape victim. Imagine how you would feel, and you will better understand how a real rape victim might feel.

On this much, I agree with you. If I were ever raped, I would give the system a chance to provide me with justice, but if the system failed I would obtain justice for myself. No rapist should ever be released from prison, and if my (hypothetical) rapist were released I would personally hunt them down and kill them.

What I object to about this thread is the way this racial crap gets thrown in to the mix. A rapist is a rapist no matter what religion they follow or what ethnic group they belong to. The last thing we need is to further encourage the "white boys will be boys" mentality.

The point of this thread is not to justify rape for some ethnic group but to highlight the huge overrepresentation of muslims/non-western immigrants in rape statistics....

so is christianity. maybe you should go back to norse myths then and deport all christians, leaving only in your country those whose faith is norse mythology. now wouldn't that solve all your population problems?

Come back and take your medicin!

Show the ECHR ruling, or admit that you are nothing but a despicable LIAR!

The point of this thread is not to justify rape for some ethnic group but to highlight the huge overrepresentation of muslims/non-western immigrants in rape statistics....
What that says to me is that Muslims and non-Western immigrants are more likely to be prosecuted for rape. That may or may not have anything to do with their likelihood of raping somebody.

In America, we've known for decades that black men who rape are far more likely to be prosecuted, and convicted, than white men who rape. Black men also receive longer averages sentences than white men when they are convicted.

Are you muslim or something? Where are you from? You seem to be veeery ignorant. The christianity is here (scandinavia) for like a millenia. Islam is in Scandinavia for like 40 years....
aaahhh.... are you ignoring and renegating your own culture now? shame on you...

40 years is a long time... how old are you? 12?

Come back and take your medicin!

Show the ECHR ruling, or admit that you are nothing but a despicable LIAR!
please continue... i love how you fascists are so dumb that you don't even realise you are doing me (and the world) a favour when you call me a liar.

aaahhh.... are you ignoring and renegating your own culture now? shame on you...

40 years is a long time... how old are you? 12?

It is a very short time when it is contrasted against a millenia. I note that you usually require a couple more posts to understand my single post. Is it your reading skills or what?

Pim Fortyn made a very popular political party just because he exposed how muslims treated women and homosexuals. If he werent assasinanted, he might have become the PM of Holland. Things can be done in a right way.
That's true, I was getting on my high horse a little there. I do see the need for political tactics. At least that way when the political institutions are taken under control, instead of street violence you can go down the more quiet routes of rendition and deportation.

What that says to me is that Muslims and non-Western immigrants are more likely to be prosecuted for rape. That may or may not have anything to do with their likelihood of raping somebody.

In America, we've known for decades that black men who rape are far more likely to be prosecuted, and convicted, than white men who rape. Black men also receive longer averages sentences than white men when they are convicted.

Blacks are also nine times more likely to be the victim of violence, and their attackers are extremely likely to be black as well.

please continue... i love how you fascists are so dumb that you don't even realise you are doing me (and the world) a favour when you call me a liar.

Stop evading.

SHOW the ECHR Ruling, or admit you are nothing but a despicable liar.

What that says to me is that Muslims and non-Western immigrants are more likely to be prosecuted for rape. That may or may not have anything to do with their likelihood of raping somebody.

In America, we've known for decades that black men who rape are far more likely to be prosecuted, and convicted, than white men who rape. Black men also receive longer averages sentences than white men when they are convicted.

Possible but unlikely. They are overrepresented not only in Norway but in Denmark as well. They are overrepresented in all sorts of crime not only in Scandinavia but all over Europe.

You can add "hate-filled slanderer" and "racist" as synonyms for anyone who disagrees with Assis.
and you make it so obvious to the rest of the NS community that i am right when i use these words against you... of course you're too ignorant to understand this.

Blacks are also nine times more likely to be the victim of violence, and their attackers are extremely likely to be black as well.
I honestly cannot understand why people still persist in assuming that conviction rate is an accurate reflection of the relative rates at which different groups commit crimes. That overlooks like 8 steps in the process.

Before we get carried away with the "Rapists Must Die" thing, I want to point out:
Rape is a difficult crime to prove. "Bushrape" as someone called it is unfortunately a paradigm most people fall into, the idea of a woman attacked by a stranger and raped with violence. Threats, abuse, injury and disfigurement. Gang rape. And those are also the forms of rape the media concentrates on.
Date rape, sex in situations of mutally disparate power (think "sexual harrassment"), and statutory rape.
Are they all equally bad?

And the kicker: is rape worse than murder? Violating someone (usually female), pouring hate into a channel meant for love, exploiting them. Is that worse than removing their entire being from the world, removing the world (all it's joys, it's uncertainties, it's sufferings and regrets, the freedom, the helplessness) from them?

It's a very emotive topic, I know, but. Is rape worse than murder ?

I honestly cannot understand why people still persist in assuming that conviction rate is an accurate reflection of the relative rates at which different groups commit crimes. That overlooks like 8 steps in the process.
This data has nothing to do with convictions.

It's from emergency room reports.

please continue... i love how you fascists are so dumb that you don't even realise you are doing me (and the world) a favour when you call me a liar.

ROFL...Even YOU can call others dumb, eh? :eek:

and you make it so obvious to the rest of the NS community that i am right when i use these words against you... of course you're too ignorant to understand this.
Consider swimming in toxic waste.

and you make it so obvious to the rest of the NS community that i am right when i use these words against you... of course you're too ignorant to understand this.

Yeah, everyone is crazy but you, right?

*is somehow reminded of the pantyless hero...*

Stop evading.

SHOW the ECHR Ruling, or admit you are nothing but a despicable liar.
i'm sure you just the kind of person that would use the UDHR over foreign law when it suits your bigot interests...

Possible but unlikely.

Actually, my analysis isn't simply "possible," it's a report of what the data actually say. The numbers tell us about who is arrested/prosecuted/convicted of crimes, and thus (by definition) they do not tell us about the number of people who commit crimes yet are not arrested, prosecuted, or convicted.

Now, you may say, "Muslims are more likely to be prosecuted because they are more likely to commit the crime in the first place," or somebody else could say, "Muslims are more likely to be prosecuted because the system is racist/anti-Muslim." But the raw numbers don't prove either of you right.


They are overrepresented not only in Norway but in Denmark as well. They are overrepresented in all sorts of crime not only in Scandinavia but all over Europe.
Again, the numbers you are refering to are numbers of who is arrested, prosecuted, or convicted of crimes. You need to pay attention to the units on your numbers, in other words, because you're jumping too many steps ahead.

Yeah, everyone is crazy but you, right?

*is somehow reminded of the pantyless hero...*
rather be crazy than a racist or a religious bigot....

i'm sure you just the kind of person that would use the UDHR over foreign law when it suits your bigot interests...

Actually, no.

Your question implies that because it is a treaty and therefore the "supreme law of the land" pursuant to the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution (Article VI) it would somehow prevent the US, as a matter of US domestic law, from lawfully deploying force in the exercise of its authority. This is just not so. Even if one were to consider any treaty in force and valid today, a treaty is equal in dignity and normative rank to federal legislation and inferior to provisions of the Constitution itself. Therefore, a constitutionally permissible use of force, either pursuant to a congressional declaration of war or an authorized use of force by the executive (typically delegated authority by Congress, as in the present legislation pertaining to Iraq) would satisfy the requirements of US domestic law. There are several key federal court decisions and many fine scholarly articles addressing the role of treaties in the US legal system that demonstrate this point.

i'm sure you just the kind of person that would use the UDHR over foreign law when it suits your bigot interests...

Excuse me. You were making up a 'fact'. I caught you at it.

Now, can you prove your 'fact' or do you admit it is a make-uppie?

Liar liar pants on fire.

Oh look. Another internal problem engendered by the presence of modern immigrants. How very unique.

Consider swimming in toxic waste.
you already are and you don't even know it...

rather be crazy than a racist or a religious bigot....


Excuse me. You were making up a 'fact'. I caught you at it.

Now, can you prove your 'fact' or do you admit it is a make-uppie?

Liar liar pants on fire.

I honestly cannot understand why people still persist in assuming that conviction rate is an accurate reflection of the relative rates at which different groups commit crimes. That overlooks like 8 steps in the process.

Given the extremely politically correct nature of Europe, I'd say natives are more likely to be convicted than immigrants. It is really easy for a criminal immigrant to sue Police Department that he was mistreated because of racism...

you already are and you don't even know it...
Read what i said and read what you wrote again. Pay more attention in school.

Liar liar pants on fire.
kindergarden talk... makes you so credible, rational and sane at your age...

This data has nothing to do with convictions.

It's from emergency room reports.
Same reply, then, just swap "convictions" for "reports of..." We don't know anything about the many rape victims who never go to the emergency room, and some estimates suggest that as many as 50% of rape victims won't make it that far.

kindergarden talk... makes you so credible, rational and sane at your age...

Excuse me. You were making up a 'fact'. I caught you at it.

Now, can you prove your 'fact' or do you admit it is a make-uppie?

Actually, my analysis isn't simply "possible," it's a report of what the data actually say. The numbers tell us about who is arrested/prosecuted/convicted of crimes, and thus (by definition) they do not tell us about the number of people who commit crimes yet are not arrested, prosecuted, or convicted.

Now, you may say, "Muslims are more likely to be prosecuted because they are more likely to commit the crime in the first place," or somebody else could say, "Muslims are more likely to be prosecuted because the system is racist/anti-Muslim." But the raw numbers don't prove either of you right.


Again, the numbers you are refering to are numbers of who is arrested, prosecuted, or convicted of crimes. You need to pay attention to the units on your numbers, in other words, because you're jumping too many steps ahead.

Since you also havent got the numbers of representation in overall (reported or not) crimes, I'm more likely to be correct because the data we have shows overrepresentation....We have to work on data we have. You are working on speculation....

Given the extremely politically correct nature of Europe, I'd say natives are more likely to be convicted than immigrants. It is really easy for a criminal immigrant to sue Police Department that he was mistreated because of racism...
I wouldn't know, never having lived there. I'm simply sticking to the numbers, and recognizing the limitations of the data we have.

At any rate, it's possible that Muslim men are more likely to rape than white men. But that doesn't provide any particular justification for throwing Muslims out of Europe, unless you're also going to say that all men should be thrown out of Europe because all men are more likely to rape than women are. I don't feel it is fair to judge all men by the behavior of the minority who rape.

Read what i said and read what you wrote again. Pay more attention in school.
you told me to consider swimming in toxic waste... what else is there to read?

rather be crazy than a racist or a religious bigot....

If you're crazy, you wouldn't know if you were a racist or a religious bigot. You could be all 3!

Given the extremely politically correct nature of Europe, I'd say natives are more likely to be convicted than immigrants. It is really easy for a criminal immigrant to sue Police Department that he was mistreated because of racism...

Well evidently. We compile human rights conventions and international laws to surrender our autonomy to outsiders.

Same reply, then, just swap "convictions" for "reports of..." We don't know anything about the many rape victims who never go to the emergency room, and some estimates suggest that as many as 50% of rape victims won't make it that far.

Well, we're talking about gunshot wounds here. People usually end up at the coroner's office or the emergency room.

If this is somehow a statistical overreporting of blacks, then there are a lot of white people that just disappear after being shot.

Since you also havent got the numbers of representation in overall (reported or not) crimes, I'm more likely to be correct because the data we have shows overrepresentation....We have to work on data we have. You are working on speculation....
No, dear, I'm refusing to speculate. I'm not assuming anything either way, I'm just being aware of the limitations of the data set. You are the one assuming that these numbers MUST correlate to the actual rates of rape committed by different ethnic groups. I'm saying that it's possible that that's what's happening, but it's also possible that another explanation is correct. We don't know enough to conclude either way.

Your odds are, admittedly, relatively low because you are male. However, your willingness to fight/die to prevent rape don't really have much to do with it. A great many rape victims also are willing to fight and die to prevent rape, but they can be overpowered or taken by surprise and incapacitated. Don't make the mistake of thinking that rape victims simply don't fight hard enough...many of them fight harder than you can imagine.

There's a difference between a person who's 5'7" and 175 pounds, untrained and unarmed fighting hard and a guy who's 6' tall, 240 pounds, (a little out of shape), trained to fight, and always armed with at least a knife.
Has nothing to do with rape. There is exactly zero correlation between attractiveness of a victim and likelihood of rape. I was just being a wise ass.

And, at any rate, my entire point was that you shouldn't think of rape only as something that happens to other people. You can empathize by realizing that you, too, could be a rape victim. Imagine how you would feel, and you will better understand how a real rape victim might feel.I would feel worthless until I inflicted some serious pain and suffering on anyone who managed to do that to me.

Well, we're talking about gunshot wounds here. People usually end up at the coroner's office or the emergency room.

I'm sorry, I was talking about rape victims. Flipping back, I realize my post was unclear. My bad. :(


If this is somehow a statistical overreporting of blacks, then there are a lot of white people that just disappear after being shot.
Well, that's a whole other story...especially when you throw those sneaky Italians into the mix...;)

you told me to consider swimming in toxic waste... what else is there to read?
I told you to read your retard reply "you already are". I already are what? Make some real arguments instead of "u r teh nazi!!!111 fascists ZOMG!!12".

I wouldn't know, never having lived there. I'm simply sticking to the numbers, and recognizing the limitations of the data we have.

At any rate, it's possible that Muslim men are more likely to rape than white men. But that doesn't provide any particular justification for throwing Muslims out of Europe, unless you're also going to say that all men should be thrown out of Europe because all men are more likely to rape than women are. I don't feel it is fair to judge all men by the behavior of the minority who rape.

This rape debate is just another branch that proves islam is an alien culture in Europe and uncompatible with Europe, as dutch overwhelmingly say.

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/12143

If you're crazy, you wouldn't know if you were a racist or a religious bigot. You could be all 3!
i could, but judging by my friendship with many people of different races and religions i am most obviously not.

OHNOES teh muslims is comin' fer our wimmins! :rolleyes:

Well, I for one won't tolerate it anymore! from now on, only resident, native citizens are allowed to rape women and I'll go a step further: it's time we started discriminating based on religious or ethnic minorities, because we did NOT get enough of that in Europe in the 20th century, thanks to those do-gooder "allies" and decadent, corrupt, Jew-controlled USians!

;)

This rape debate is just another branch that proves islam is an alien culture in Europe and uncompatible with Europe, as dutch overwhelmingly say.

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/12143

Part of a possible chain of evidence.
Not proof.

Islam by itself is not a culture.

There's a difference between a person who's 5'7" and 175 pounds, untrained and unarmed fighting hard and a guy who's 6' tall, 240 pounds, (a little out of shape), trained to fight, and always armed with at least a knife.

Sure. But a friend of mine was raped despite being a black belt in two forms of martial arts. It can happen, that's all I'm saying, so your strength and ability to defend yourself shouldn't stop you from empathizing with rape victims.


I would feel worthless until I inflicted some serious pain and suffering on anyone who managed to do that to me.
I think I'd feel much the same. However, for me, it would be less about inflicting pain, and more about removing that individual from the world.

i could, but judging by my friendship with many people of different races and religions i am most obviously not.
Don't lie to yourself, you have no friends. Liar.

This rape debate is just another branch that proves islam is an alien culture in Europe and uncompatible with Europe, as dutch overwhelmingly say.

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/12143

Well, you could say that the abortion debate that many Christian fundamentalists engage in is alien to modern European culture, and is therefore incompatible with the EU.

You could use that argument to say that Ireland can never be in Europe.

You know what the real issue here is? Most Muslims have darker skin than we of northern European descent. Therefore they are the devil.

Oh right. So why are Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists etc not equally unpopular?

I have an intense dislike for some of the behaviour I see from people in Muslim communtities. I also have friends of Muslim heritage and other dark-skinned ethnic backgrounds. It has NOTHING to do with skin colour and everything to do with attitude and behaviour.

You're the one making ridiculous generalisations about people you don't like.

This rape debate is just another branch that proves islam is an alien culture in Europe and uncompatible with Europe, as dutch overwhelmingly say.

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/12143
It would be just as accurate to say that the rape debate is another branch that proves men should not be permitted to live in Europe.

I told you to read your retard reply "you already are". I already are what? Make some real arguments instead of "u r teh nazi!!!111 fascists ZOMG!!12".
continue calling me a retard please, because it shows the rest of the world that, if i am a retard, you are much worse...

you already are [swimming in toxic waste].

I wouldn't know, never having lived there. I'm simply sticking to the numbers, and recognizing the limitations of the data we have.

At any rate, it's possible that Muslim men are more likely to rape than white men. But that doesn't provide any particular justification for throwing Muslims out of Europe, unless you're also going to say that all men should be thrown out of Europe because all men are more likely to rape than women are. I don't feel it is fair to judge all men by the behavior of the minority who rape.

The issue is one of endorsement. The Koran endorses an admittedly limited quantity of actions that contravene central tenets of European law; notably the murder of thoe who renege from the faith, "honour" killings, and, most pertinently, the use of unfettered violence in the defence of the faith.

Whilst the validity of much of the Koran is dependent upon the extent to which one takes a fundamental perspective, that the Koran can be used in this manner, and, increasingly is, does cast aspersions upon quite why Muslim immigrants were welcomed.

continue calling me a retard please, because it shows the rest of the world that, if i am a retard, you are much worse...
Liar, you'll go straight to hell!

EDIT: no. read how you replied again, what you said would make it sound like "you already are consider swiming in toxic waste."

I told you to read your retard reply "you already are". I already are what? Make some real arguments instead of "u r teh nazi!!!111 fascists ZOMG!!12".

I haven't had this much fun since I was 9. The tent collapsed, and we all thought it was the other kids touching us and we all started kicking each other and then we all started kicking and hitting and yelling and it was so much fun!
Wasn't very good for the tent tho.

I haven't had this much fun since I was 9. The tent collapsed, and we all thought it was the other kids touching us and we all started kicking each other and then we all started kicking and hitting and yelling and it was so much fun!
Wasn't very good for the tent tho.
I am convinced that Assis is 12 years old.

continue calling me a retard please, because it shows the rest of the world that, if i am a retard, you are much worse...

you already are [swimming in toxic waste].

I'm calling you a liar.


*grin*

Maybe I'll do a public poll about it. 'What is Assis?'

I'll even grant you the right to nominate 4 nice things to say about you.

I'll nominate the options
-Deluded
-Liar
-Crazy
-Retard

and, of course: myrth.

Which 4 one-word-options do you pick?

Don't lie to yourself, you have no friends. Liar.
and you would know? continue exposing your ignorance, please... continue damaging your credibility, please. you are only doing me a favour...

I'm calling you a liar.


*grin*

Maybe I'll do a public poll about it. 'What is Assis?'

I'll even grant you the right to nominate 4 nice things to say about you.

I'll nominate the options
-Deluded
-Liar
-Crazy
-Retard

and, of course: myrth.

Which 4 one-word-options do you pick?
please do... you are doing me a favour...