NationStates Jolt Archive

I was just about to say that I know that, too, but knowing something and acting accordingly are two very different kinds of things, at least for me.
And then I read on and lo and behold:

I mean, isn't that normal? Well, maybe not, but I'm totally like that. Making an ass out of myself in any kind of situation, but especially in that kind, is my worst nightmare. So of course I would always prefer to err on the side of caution.
Actually, when I got older, I also got more impatient in the dating department and erred on the side of risking it, and sometimes it worked out well, sometimes it didn't - but of course the times it didn't stay in your memory much more deeply and stronger. Meh.
Bolded for truth!

Not so much disapprove as pity having that kind of view....
Well, I've got all sorts of views if you don't like that one. How about this one of the beach....:p All seriousness aside, TBD did tell me once that "[I am my] own antithesis."

Bolded for truth!
Quite so.

I was just about to say that I know that, too, but knowing something and acting accordingly are two very different kinds of things, at least for me.
And then I read on and lo and behold:

I mean, isn't that normal? Well, maybe not, but I'm totally like that. Making an ass out of myself in any kind of situation, but especially in that kind, is my worst nightmare. So of course I would always prefer to err on the side of caution.
Actually, when I got older, I also got more impatient in the dating department and erred on the side of risking it, and sometimes it worked out well, sometimes it didn't - but of course the times it didn't stay in your memory much more deeply and stronger. Meh.
I think they do, but I think it's because we don't compare them with our successes. This is speculation to a degree because I've never made a first move in my life but I've played my hand, so to speak. I never compare those times where I've shown my ass (figuratively-if literally we might actually have hit on the key to my failure...) to the times where the chick reciprocated. Those relationships are over and I think about thier endings but I never really think that the reason I think about those endings is because the beginings kicked so much ass that I was sad to see them go. That nervous first kiss from the chick that had been holding my fool hand for a week without me 'getting it' from my first girlfriend, or another the first time another girlfriend started kissing the back of my neck because she knew that after that she could spread me on a cracker-those moments ruled in a way that could never really compare to the times I ate shit by letting on that I was more than a little into a chick that didn't feel the same way. So I don't compare them and make the error of thinking that that sensation isn't worth the potential reward. Which is kinda bullshit. The difference in saying and acknowledging its bullshit and acting like I know are legions apart. Like licking a 9 volt battery for me-I know it's not that bad but I can never bring myself to do it anyway and I end up just looking like a weenie.

The sad thing is, this doesn't apply just to straight guys either. I'm gay and consider myself a "good guy" too, and I never seem to get the guys I want.
Proof that this whole idea (if even true) isn't due to girls being stupid, evil bitches....

Proof that this whole idea (if even true) isn't due to girls being stupid, evil bitches....
It's due to people with feminine characteristics being stupid, evil bitches?:confused:

:p

*sticks nose up*
*sniffs*

O_O

*runs to pile of news papers*

OH GOD!

sorry i havent counted every girl i've known. I haven't acutally done a survey on it its just something i have observed. the point is still the same that a significant amount of girls i have met like tough guys. some of those girls mentioned they liked arogant men. I didnt say all women but enough women to justify this question coming up. Your probably gunna pick up on my punctuation now coz i find thats usually what happens when you run out of other things to pick out.

LOL You're so cute when you're frustrated. PM is so lucky to have you.:p
Haha, so he can mock my frustration? :P
It's really just this whole subject of girls and guys being certain ways that gets to me...

hehe she's even better in person ;) :p

(and yes, i am :) :fluffle: )
What with cute arm-wavey things..... :P

(:) :fluffle: *squeezy hugs*)

I was thinking something like "I don't trust your sampling method" but that'll do.
You have to really spell it out for some people...

After all, I'm eccentric, not very "macho" and well, I'm eccentric.;) But that doesn't stop me from having a good flirt. It's all a bit of fun.
Eccentic and not very "macho" is good.... well, I think so anyhoo.

And of course you are. We're talking Glitzy here. You're both very fortunate in that regard.
Aww :) :fluffle:

Well, I've got all sorts of views if you don't like that one. How about this one of the beach.... All seriousness aside, TBD did tell me once that "[I am my] own antithesis."
I think most people are like that really. The thing holding them back is probably themself, their views, their attitude, their responses to situations etc.

*sticks nose up*
*sniffs*

O_O

*runs to pile of news papers*

OH GOD!
*rubs Ruffy's nose in it for fun*:p

sorry i havent counted every girl i've known. I haven't acutally done a survey on it its just something i have observed. the point is still the same that a significant amount of girls i have met like tough guys. some of those girls mentioned they liked arogant men. I didnt say all women but enough women to justify this question coming up. Your probably gunna pick up on my punctuation now coz i find thats usually what happens when you run out of other things to pick out.
No, now I'm going to pick on your pitiuos playing to the refs. Mostly because the elements in your defense have been dealt with several times in this thread and threads of this ilk. And you've still managed to ignore the most salient point of the whole nut, that women are individuals with individual tastes, reasoning, and motivations so despite what magazine articles to sell advertisig and comedians to get easy laughs tell you the question is still crap.

*rubs Ruffy's nose in it for fun*:p
You sick bastard!

sorry i havent counted every girl i've known. I haven't acutally done a survey on it its just something i have observed. the point is still the same that a significant amount of girls i have met like tough guys. some of those girls mentioned they liked arogant men. I didnt say all women but enough women to justify this question coming up.
1. Your observation or your anecdotal "evidence" is meaningless when talking about over half of the population. The amount of people you have met is in a miniscule proportion of the world.
2. Even if it were a significant amount, or a majority, applying a generalisation to any individual when trying to form a relationship is useless and offensive.
3. Backtracking and saying you're just posing a question, or admitting that it's a very weakly founded statement with no real evidence does not excuse saying that you believe that girls like/want/do a certain thing.

Your probably gunna pick up on my punctuation now coz i find thats usually what happens when you run out of other things to pick out.
I've never ever mentioned another person's punctuation or spelling on this forum, and never do in real life either, unless asked. Just because you don't like being criticised or questioned, don't assume the other person is picky and pedantic and try and make it seem like their comments mean nothing. Deal with the fact that what you say my be flawed.

Haha, so he can mock my frustration? :P
It's really just this whole subject of girls and guys being certain ways that gets to me...
Well, it does make you laugh, doesn't it?;) ....His mockery, I mean.

Eccentic and not very "macho" is good.... well, I think so anyhoo.
I like to think so, too.:cool: But that's mostly my arrogance talking. It has control right now.

Aww :) :fluffle:
*bows* :fluffle:

I think most people are like that really. The thing holding them back is probably themself, their views, their attitude, their responses to situations etc.
Yes, but I tend to be more extremely contradictory without being hypocritical. Most people simply resign themselves to hypocrisy. I'm just special.:p

Well, it does make you laugh, doesn't it?;) ....His mockery, I mean.
Haha, yes :p Plus, I can do my fair share of patronising too.... :D

*bows* :fluffle:

:fluffle:

Yes, but I tend to be more extremely contradictory without being hypocritical. Most people simply resign themselves to hypocrisy. I'm just special.:p
Yes, yes you are *nods and pats on head* :p
I would say something serious but really... how much more vague can you get? :p

You sick bastard!
You've got the bastard part right.:cool:

Haha, yes :p Plus, I can do my fair share of patronising too.... :D
Yes, I imagine so.:p


:fluffle:
:D *bewares the unexpected presence of P&P Reincarnate*


Yes, yes you are *nods and pats on head* :p
I would say something serious but really... how much more vague can you get? :p
All seriousness aside, you really haven't seen me at work, have you?:cool:

On topic: I don't know why, I don't know that I count as a "good" person, but I'm not at all happy about the arrangement.

http://hippie-n-more.com/Blog%20Images/Lovesick.jpg

You posted on topic, foo'!


I'm sorry! I'm SO sorry! FORGIVE ME!
:(

*despondent weeping*

I'm sorry! I'm SO sorry! FORGIVE ME!
:(

*despondent weeping*
No mercy for upstart weaklings.
*decapitates you with katana*

On topic: I don't know why, I don't know that I count as a "good" person, but I'm not at all happy about the arrangement.

http://hippie-n-more.com/Blog%20Images/Lovesick.jpg
On...on-topic!:eek:

Honestly, this is a question that has been on my mind for a long time, mainly because I consider myself a "good guy". But why is it that women would rather go out with these guys that are total dickish arse-holes, instead of someone that will treat them right, and such?

Anyone have an answer?:confused:

cause most "good guys are weenies)

i am a good guy,i just dont like to finish last.

On topic: I don't know why, I don't know that I count as a "good" person, but I'm not at all happy about the arrangement.

http://hippie-n-more.com/Blog%20Images/Lovesick.jpg
Awww, that pic is going to make me cry. :(

Awww, that pic is going to make me cry. :(
Now now, just think of it as Cupid falling in love with face plants...

Awww, that pic is going to make me cry. :(
There there, dear. :fluffle:
*tosses bow behind bushes and consoles you*

Awww, that pic is going to make me cry. :(
Awww! *hugs and fluffles* :fluffle:

You still haven't proved what I've said to be flawed though. Some girls like tough guys, theres no way you can prove that wrong. I never said all girls like tough guys but there is definetly an attraction there. Just coz you dont like tough guys guys doesnt mean every girl doesn't. You're the 1 who's generalising here. Another thing is girls (guys as well) dont always necessarily conciously know what they want. Have you ever been attracted to someone and not been able to pinpoint why your so attracted to them? Another thing is that as a guy and generally quite a nice guy although you might not think so now I've lost out alot with girls coz they go "aww he's so sweet I could never think of him that way" whereas the times where I've met a girl and maybe not talked to them much coz I'm not in the mood or made a cheeky comment at them I've been surprisingly successful, not full on insulted them but kept abit of machoness and not let off all my good side right away, maybe coz it proves I've got some balls and I stick up for myself, who knows. I'm not the only guy this has worked with neither.

Awww, that pic is going to make me cry. :(
:(
Sorry about that, it wasn't my intention to make anybody feel down. I just had a bad day.
I'll be back when things calm down and gets a wee bit better.

Interesting age range you chose there. Currently I wouldn't want anyone outside the 18-25 range, but that's probably because I'm 19.

Yeah well, its the lowest I could go without being illegal.



*Pointedly fails to address other end of spectrum*

Honestly, this is a question that has been on my mind for a long time, mainly because I consider myself a "good guy". But why is it that women would rather go out with these guys that are total dickish arse-holes, instead of someone that will treat them right, and such?

Anyone have an answer?:confused:


Self-described Good Guys have a tendency to be drones.

Please check the word 'drone' in the dictionary.
Avoiding drones is good reproductive strategy.

Honestly, this is a question that has been on my mind for a long time, mainly because I consider myself a "good guy". But why is it that women would rather go out with these guys that are total dickish arse-holes, instead of someone that will treat them right, and such?

Anyone have an answer?:confused:Because nice guys usually aren't. They're usually misogynistic little wankers, who somehow thinks women need special treatment. They don't. With the possible exception of physical violence, they're every bit as capable, intelligent, determined & ambitious as you, and just like you, they need their personal space & autonomy. Good guys rarely allow either. That's why good guys finish last. It's got nothing to do with not being in good standing with Hells Angels, but everything to do with being an arse.

You still haven't proved what I've said to be flawed though. Some girls like tough guys, theres no way you can prove that wrong.
I never tried to.
I never said all girls like tough guys
You - at least - strongly implied it.
Just coz you dont like tough guys guys doesnt mean every girl doesn't.
I never said that.
You're the 1 who's generalising here.
Ha. Yeah. Tell me where exactly?
Another thing is girls (guys as well) dont always necessarily conciously know what they want.
And along comes the condescending, patronising bullshit....
I know perfectly well that "macho man" attitude is an instant turn-off for me. You do not know me better than myself. Full stop. You seriously need to accept that perhaps you are wrong, rather than trying to say that actually you're right, I just don't know how I actually feel... Maybe insufferable superiority is the cause of problems with women? :rolleyes:
Another thing is that as a guy and generally quite a nice guy although you might not think so now I've lost out alot with girls coz they go "aww he's so sweet I could never think of him that way" whereas the times where I've met a girl and maybe not talked to them much coz I'm not in the mood or made a cheeky comment at them I've been surprisingly successful, not full on insulted them but kept abit of machoness and not let off all my good side right away, maybe coz it proves I've got some balls and I stick up for myself, who knows. I'm not the only guy this has worked with neither.
Self-pitying anecdotes with no actual proof....

Meh. I officially give up. I just wish you good luck with relationships - seems like you'll need it.

Another thing is girls (guys as well) dont always necessarily conciously know what they want.It's the people with your kind of attitude I was addressing earlier. No great shock girls don't like you. I wouldn't either.

It wasnt a self pitying anecdote, not intentionally anyway. It was a comparison between 2 different mentalities I've been in and how successful they are. I didn't say i was unsuccesful with women, didnt say i was succesful, i could be worse though. 1 thing that does drag me down is that I'm very analytical and mess about too much. Macho guys annoy me as well, I'm not 1 of them although i do have a slight bit of a temper and a deep croaky voice which sometimes makes me seem macho, also a bit of an attitude problem. When I am myself which is those things I meet and get on with women alot easier than when I'm being overly patient, nice, feminine and complimenting or overly macho (which to be honest I've never tried)

Whats all the condencending bullsh*t about. Your taking what i'm saying as a personal attack on you. I didnt say I know you or even imply it. This annoys me that people are so ignorant to the fact that they don't know everything about themselves. I don't know myself either. Your assuming alot more about me with "my relationship problems" or "condencending nature" and "cynicism" than i am of you. All i implied is that you dont know yourself, barely anyone does at least not until there old. Thats why people have more than 1 relationship because there first choice is alot of the time not the 1 despite what they thought at the time. Have you read or heard of Malcolm Gladwells "Blink". Its about the subconcious and how people ignore it and it is so true. People are told what to think and want so much that they ignore there instincts.

"You seriously need to accept that perhaps you are wrong, rather than trying to say that actually you're right, I just don't know how I actually feel... Maybe insufferable superiority is the cause of problems with women?"

Just remembered you said that. Thats my point. I'm not like that at all, I dont know everything how I feel, neither do many people. As far as we know hear we both have the same success in relationships, We dont know anything about each others. You havent admitted your wrong neither, why would you, we're having an internet argumnet and we both have different theories.

I never tried to.

You - at least - strongly implied it.

I never said that.

Ha. Yeah. Tell me where exactly?

And along comes the condescending, patronising bullshit....
I know perfectly well that "macho man" attitude is an instant turn-off for me. You do not know me better than myself. Full stop. You seriously need to accept that perhaps you are wrong, rather than trying to say that actually you're right, I just don't know how I actually feel... Maybe insufferable superiority is the cause of problems with women? :rolleyes:

Self-pitying anecdotes with no actual proof....

Meh. I officially give up. I just wish you good luck with relationships - seems like you'll need it.
Take it easy on the poor jerk, Glitzy. We're past page 20: you don't have to post on-topic anymore.;)

When I am myself which is those things I meet and get on with women alot easier than when I'm being overly patient, nice, feminine and complimenting or overly macho (which to be honest I've never tried)
I don't think anyone would promote being "overly patient, nice, feminine and complimenting", with the key word being "overly" because that obviously means it's in excess.

My basic attitude towards any talk of characteristics that are "best for getting woman" is that there's no point to discussing it. Each woman is different and likes different things in a guy, and if you truly want to make something work, you have to get to know them as an individual, not base things off generalistions which are meaningless when talking about a unique human being.

I don't know whether you'd agree with that or not, but I did get a strong idea from what you said that either a) there were certain characteristics that all girls wanted or at least b) that using generalisations was worthwhile in these situations.

Whats all the condencending bullsh*t about. Your taking what i'm saying as a personal attack on you. I didnt say I know you or even imply it.
You said that people don't know themself properly, while defending your idea on what girls like. This does imply that you know what girls want, and girls don't themselves, and I do take this as being condescending and insulting.

This annoys me that people are so ignorant to the fact that they don't know everything about themselves. I don't know myself either. Your assuming alot more about me with "my relationship problems" or "condencending nature" and "cynicism" than i am of you. All i implied is that you dont know yourself, barely anyone does at least not until there old. Thats why people have more than 1 relationship because there first choice is alot of the time not the 1 despite what they thought at the time. Have you read or heard of Malcolm Gladwells "Blink". Its about the subconcious and how people ignore it and it is so true. People are told what to think and want so much that they ignore there instincts.
I never said that I know everything about myself, and how I act and think. Of course I don't.
However, some things I do know about myself, and to say or imply that actually I don't but you do is insulting. I do know what types of guys I am attracted to, and what characteristics I'd look for. I don't know everything about myself but that is something I know about myself.

If you want an explanation for why I find it insulting, it's because the attitude you seemed to have seems to say that I'm no more than a member of my gender and you can analyse me and tell me what I think and feel based on that. It feels incredibly demeaning to be treated simply as a member of my gender and not as an actual person.

Maybe I have jumped the gun and been over the top in accusing and attacking you. If so, I apologise. It's just that a low of views you have expressed coincide with other (perhaps more extreme, but very common) views which I feel incredibly strongly about (as shown, heh :p), and the way you were speaking generally implied these things and seemed to be what you were saying. I'm still unsure as to what you think, but what you're saying seems far more reasonable then your initial post on the subject - whether you've clarified it in your head more, or clarified it better to me, I don't know.

Take it easy on the poor jerk, Glitzy. We're past page 20: you don't have to post on-topic anymore.;)
On my settings (40 posts per page) we're only on page 14.... :p

haha I wish i knew what girls wanted more than they did them selves. Sorry if i implied that.

I do think that some there are characteristics more common within men and women but your right theres no point in bringing them up sometimes but its jsut the analytical way that I am. I dont think there is specific ways to attract women. I have friends who go out and try to pull and try to give me advice on how to pull and i always say you should go with the flow and how you act should depend on the person your with never mind tactics so I do actually defend your belief on being a person more than a member of the female gender. Its tempting as a guy not to fall in the trap of just going for it and not getting to know girls which is something i actually find hard to do as I'm to much of an overthinker (unless drunk). Didn't mean to be condescending, probably a mix of my stubborness and how hard it is for you to explain stuff on message boards. I probably clarified it better to you and maybe more in my head who knows (not me i dont know what goes on in there :p ).

Anyway enjoyed the discussion/argument.

Cheers

*snip* Another thing is girls (guys as well) dont always necessarily conciously know what they want. Have you ever been attracted to someone and not been able to pinpoint why your so attracted to them? Another thing is that as a guy and generally quite a nice guy although you might not think so now I've lost out alot with girls coz they go "aww he's so sweet I could never think of him that way" whereas the times where I've met a girl and maybe not talked to them much coz I'm not in the mood or made a cheeky comment at them I've been surprisingly successful, not full on insulted them but kept abit of machoness and not let off all my good side right away, maybe coz it proves I've got some balls and I stick up for myself, who knows. I'm not the only guy this has worked with neither.



I was going to post a comment noting that many of the females that have responded to this topic have posted something to the effect of "there's no such thing as a nice guy, you're all liars", then I read this and now I see why they think that. I promise you, ladies. we're not all arrogant asshats, and we're not all devious manipulators. I'm embarrassed to be the same gender as guys like this. It's not that they're the ones being honest, men who know how to treat a woman like a human being rather than an object do exist. We're for real, too.

You want to know why nice guys finish last? There aren't any. Men are jerks as soon as you date them. They could be the nicest people in the world to everyone else but inevitably they'll treat whoever they date like shit and then be viewed as a not-so-nice guy by some so-called "nice guy" who, if given the opportunity will date another girl and treat her like shit.

I was going to post a comment noting that many of the females that have responded to this topic have posted something to the effect of "there's no such thing as a nice guy, you're all liars", then I read this and now I see why they think that.
Have they?
Not meant in at all a saracastic way (honestly :p), I seem to have missed that...

edit: heh, I spoke too soon before Dakini.... :P

You want to know why nice guys finish last? There aren't any. Men are jerks as soon as you date them. They could be the nicest people in the world to everyone else but inevitably they'll treat whoever they date like shit and then be viewed as a not-so-nice guy by some so-called "nice guy" who, if given the opportunity will date another girl and treat her like shit.


You had to go and do that? I'm sorry if you've been hurt by a lying ass, but we're not all like him. I really don't do those things, and neither do a lot of other guys.

edit: heh, I spoke too soon before Dakini.... :P


that's what I get for defending you ladies. ;)

You want to know why nice guys finish last? There aren't any. Men are jerks as soon as you date them. They could be the nicest people in the world to everyone else but inevitably they'll treat whoever they date like shit and then be viewed as a not-so-nice guy by some so-called "nice guy" who, if given the opportunity will date another girl and treat her like shit.
You can't possibly generalise in this way. Just because you've had bad experiences, that doesn't mean you should write off all men, for your sake and their's. And you know that - you're not stupid.

This attitude usually seems to be a way of ignoring an actual problem, or any possible guilt, and dismissing it with a generalisation about guys. It's easier than being rational.

You had to go and do that? I'm sorry if you've been hurt by a lying ass, but we're not all like him. I really don't do those things, and neither do a lot of other guys.
He wasn't necessarily a lying ass. He just went around and acted like he was a perfectly wonderful guy and then dumped me in an email and hasn't spoken to me since. He had originally restored my faith in men and then he goes and pulls this shit.

You can't possibly generalise in this way. Just because you've had bad experiences, that doesn't mean you should write off all men, for your sake and their's. And you know that - you're not stupid.

This attitude usually seems to be a way of ignoring an actual problem, or any possible guilt, and dismissing it with a generalisation about guys. It's easier than being rational.
No, right now I'm just extremely pissed off that I've been treated like this. I'll get over it eventually, but I'm really thinking that there aren't any guys better than this one out there and look what he went and did.

haha I wish i knew what girls wanted more than they did them selves. Sorry if i implied that.

I do think that some there are characteristics more common within men and women but your right theres no point in bringing them up sometimes but its jsut the analytical way that I am. I dont think there is specific ways to attract women. I have friends who go out and try to pull and try to give me advice on how to pull and i always say you should go with the flow and how you act should depend on the person your with never mind tactics so I do actually defend your belief on being a person more than a member of the female gender. Its tempting as a guy not to fall in the trap of just going for it and not getting to know girls which is something i actually find hard to do as I'm to much of an overthinker (unless drunk). Didn't mean to be condescending, probably a mix of my stubborness and how hard it is for you to explain stuff on message boards. I probably clarified it better to you and maybe more in my head who knows (not me i dont know what goes on in there :p ).

Anyway enjoyed the discussion/argument.

Cheers
It's so weird how two people can fundamentally agree yet words get in the way :p

And indeed - I like getting all fired up!

You can't possibly generalise in this way. Just because you've had bad experiences, that doesn't mean you should write off all men, for your sake and their's. And you know that - you're not stupid.

This attitude usually seems to be a way of ignoring an actual problem, or any possible guilt, and dismissing it with a generalisation about guys. It's easier than being rational.


Thank you, Glitzi. Once again I am impressed by your insight. I know women twice your age that don't "get it" as clearly as you seem to. PM is a very lucky man. :)

No, right now I'm just extremely pissed off that I've been treated like this. I'll get over it eventually, but I'm really thinking that there aren't any guys better than this one out there and look what he went and did.

You haven't been out with me, it ain't exactly liking to happen either, so... get over your generalisation.
*shrug*
Or at least be aware of the limitations of generalisations.
They ain't always correct.

He wasn't necessarily a lying ass. He just went around and acted like he was a perfectly wonderful guy and then dumped me in an email and hasn't spoken to me since. He had originally restored my faith in men and then he goes and pulls this shit.


I kind of know how you feel. My exgirlfriend "wnt camping with her kids", then came back and told me -- by phone -- that she had actually been with the guy she was leaving me for. We had been engaged.

No, right now I'm just extremely pissed off that I've been treated like this. I'll get over it eventually, but I'm really thinking that there aren't any guys better than this one out there and look what he went and did.
The guys you've met are a miniscule proportion of the whole gender. You can't look into the future and see what guys you'll meet, and you can't possibly judge every guy in the world based on your experiences. There are lots of guys I personally know who wouldn't dream of doing something as shitty as dumping through an email, for example.

I don't mean to dismiss how you feel, and I do sympathise, but dealing with it this way really isn't a good way for anyone, least of all you.

Thank you, Glitzi. Once again I am impressed by your insight. I know women twice your age that don't "get it" as clearly as you seem to. PM is a very lucky man. :)
Thank you - that's put a smile on my face :) :fluffle: Random compliments always rock :p

Thank you, Glitzi. Once again I am impressed by your insight. I know women twice your age that don't "get it" as clearly as you seem to. PM is a very lucky man. :)

I concur. Glitz is so refreshing. :)

I concur. Glitz is so refreshing. :)
..and my smile is prolonged :) Thanks you guys! :fluffle:

You haven't been out with me, it ain't exactly liking to happen either, so... get over your generalisation.
*shrug*
Or at least be aware of the limitations of generalisations.
They ain't always correct.
No, my generalization that there aren't any better guys out there is just based on the fact that before he dumped me, I got the feeling that we were just right for each other.
Hell, we would have arguments about every day goings on and bring physics into it... how the hell does it get any better than that? We never even had a yelling type argument, we would only have the sort of funny discussion type ones.

*sigh*

I concur. Glitz is so refreshing. :)
she rocks :) :fluffle:

I wouldn't touch Bottle with a ten-foot pole. I don't like her attitude.

Generalizations about women will not help ANYBODY understand why things haven't worked for them. Generalizations about women will do exactly the opposite.

Then why do you do NOTHING in this thread except generalize about men?

Then why do you do NOTHING in this thread except generalize about men?
Ha. Find one example of her generalising about men.

she rocks :) :fluffle:
Woo! three people all complimenting me in on thread, one of them being the guy I love! How much better can it get?! :p :) :fluffle:

It's actually a myth.

My experiences tell a different story.

Honestly, this is a question that has been on my mind for a long time, mainly because I consider myself a "good guy". But why is it that women would rather go out with these guys that are total dickish arse-holes, instead of someone that will treat them right, and such?

Anyone have an answer?:confused:

Oh, poor Zilam. Don't cry. :( Just pray to Jesus. God's plan will work out.

On my settings (40 posts per page) we're only on page 14.... :p
Damn! Then change your posts per page?:p Or I could give you special permission (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11261331&postcount=794) to begin spam warfare effective immediately.

The good guys finish last because they are either chasing the bad girls or are too, for lack of better terms, nansy pansied to do anything about it, when a bad boy tries to swoop a girl off her feet.

I was going to post a comment noting that many of the females that have responded to this topic have posted something to the effect of "there's no such thing as a nice guy, you're all liars", then I read this and now I see why they think that. I promise you, ladies. we're not all arrogant asshats, and we're not all devious manipulators. I'm embarrassed to be the same gender as guys like this. It's not that they're the ones being honest, men who know how to treat a woman like a human being rather than an object do exist. We're for real, too.
Ha! You said "asshat!" I like that word.:)

You want to know why nice guys finish last? There aren't any. Men are jerks as soon as you date them. They could be the nicest people in the world to everyone else but inevitably they'll treat whoever they date like shit and then be viewed as a not-so-nice guy by some so-called "nice guy" who, if given the opportunity will date another girl and treat her like shit.
:eek: You wound me, lady!:(

The good guys finish last because they are either chasing the bad girls or are too, for lack of better terms, nansy pansied to do anything about it, when a bad boy tries to swoop a girl off her feet.

Scottsvillania, you seem to be "bad."

He wasn't necessarily a lying ass. He just went around and acted like he was a perfectly wonderful guy and then dumped me in an email and hasn't spoken to me since. He had originally restored my faith in men and then he goes and pulls this shit.
Which is what has earned him my ire. And I say that as though it matters to either of you.:rolleyes:

:eek: You wound me, lady!:(

Me too Dakini. I've never treated a girl like shit. I was engaged to a girl once, went out for two and a half years and never had a proper arguement. I've always tried my hardest to please. Just cos you have bad experiences with a few doesn't mean every guy is the same.

Glitziness rocks! :)

No, right now I'm just extremely pissed off that I've been treated like this. I'll get over it eventually, but I'm really thinking that there aren't any guys better than this one out there and look what he went and did.
Heh. I wish I had response to this, but I'm afraid I don't. I can only hope that someone will change your mind.

she rocks :) :fluffle:

absolutely. Continue to appreciate her.

It's so weird how two people can fundamentally agree yet words get in the way :p

And indeed - I like getting all fired up!
Happens to me all the time, but that's because my view of semantics is a little skewed.

And it is rather fun, isn't it?

The guys you've met are a miniscule proportion of the whole gender. You can't look into the future and see what guys you'll meet, and you can't possibly judge every guy in the world based on your experiences. There are lots of guys I personally know who wouldn't dream of doing something as shitty as dumping through an email, for example.

I don't mean to dismiss how you feel, and I do sympathise, but dealing with it this way really isn't a good way for anyone, least of all you.
Or those of us who bear the scars of the cutting remarks. Those things are sharp, you know.:(

Thank you - that's put a smile on my face :) :fluffle: Random compliments always rock :p
Umm...that's a nice tongue you have sticking out there?:p

I concur. Glitz is so refreshing. :)
Aye, that she is.

Ooh! I actually know this one...

We perceive things, but our brains also occasionally make connections between unrelated things that coincide time-wise, and feed that back to the conscious mind as a "meaning" for the event of their coincidence. This can be a very useful skill, producing omens that guide us towards better understanding of events and relationships, but it can also be a nuisance, or even harmful, when the omen is assumed to be something objectively real.

So the answer is, women don't really prefer bad guys over good guys. It just seems that way, sometimes.


Wow, that was a damn good answer!

No, my generalization that there aren't any better guys out there is just based on the fact that before he dumped me, I got the feeling that we were just right for each other.
Hell, we would have arguments about every day goings on and bring physics into it... how the hell does it get any better than that? We never even had a yelling type argument, we would only have the sort of funny discussion type ones.

*sigh*
Oh, it gets better. The trick is to find one who doesn't dump you by email.:p....Or dump you at all, for that matter. How about metaphysics? Is that close enough? I can bring metaphysics into it....or just physics if you like. I can do all sorts of crazy things. And by crazy, I mean dull, dreary things, really. But intimate conversations I can do fairly well. He's not the only one who can do those things. You'll just have to make it a point to look for someone else who can as well.

lack of self estem FTL. at least for me :(

Woo! three people all complimenting me in on thread, one of them being the guy I love! How much better can it get?! :p :) :fluffle:
Eh...four?;)

The good guys finish last because they are either chasing the bad girls or are too, for lack of better terms, nansy pansied to do anything about it, when a bad boy tries to swoop a girl off her feet.
Not true. Some of us enjoy sweeping a girl off her feet. We're just selective about whom we sweep. It's a very romantic thing to do. Can't use it on just anyone. I don't have the energy to sustain that kind of effort. The bad boys are usually just trying to sweep her onto her back.:rolleyes:

lack of self estem FTL. at least for me :(
Eventually, you'll beat yourself into a stronger person...or you'll die lonely. It helps if you know exactly what you're missing.

Not true. Some of us enjoy sweeping a girl off her feet. We're just selective about whom we sweep. It's a very romantic thing to do. Can't use it on just anyone. I don't have the energy to sustain that kind of effort. The bad boys are usually just trying to sweep her onto her back.:rolleyes:


I agree.

I agree.
To all of it?

"He wasn't necessarily a lying ass. He just went around and acted like he was a perfectly wonderful guy and then dumped me in an email and hasn't spoken to me since. He had originally restored my faith in men and then he goes and pulls this shit."

I hate guys like that. There really hard to explain to other people. My flatmate met 1 f those feminine, girly type guys who people always assume are nice right away and he thought he'd flirted abit too much with her so ignored her for about 2 weeks meanwhile she was all paranoyed and worried that she'd done something wrong. I might be a total asshat according to whoever it was who wrote that and is obviously got some morale superiority in this subject but at least I wouldnt leave a girl hanging like that for 2 weeks or dump them by email and act like im all nice. If the nice guys do finish last that might be another reason coz a girl may have had an experience like this.

Or I could give you special permission (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11261331&postcount=794) to begin spam warfare effective immediately.
Can't I just be extra special? Sometimes I like spam warfare, sometimes I like to battle out debates for a long time..... :p

Me too Dakini. I've never treated a girl like shit. I was engaged to a girl once, went out for two and a half years and never had a proper arguement. I've always tried my hardest to please. Just cos you have bad experiences with a few doesn't mean every guy is the same.

Glitziness rocks! :)
Hehe, thanks :p :fluffle:

Just for the record, I don't think every guy is superman and every girl is a "sparkly jewel" (as someone once said...). Stating that everyone is an individual isn't necessarily a compliment - simply a fact. So I'm not defending every guy, and every girl full stop - just defending everyone's right to be treated as a person, not simply a member of their gender.

absolutely. Continue to appreciate her.
Oh, he does :) :fluffle:

Umm...that's a nice tongue you have sticking out there? :p
Wahey! I'd like to say that's a brand new compliment, but not quite... ;) :D

Eh...four?
Actually, 5 :D

Honestly, this is a question that has been on my mind for a long time, mainly because I consider myself a "good guy". But why is it that women would rather go out with these guys that are total dickish arse-holes, instead of someone that will treat them right, and such?

Anyone have an answer?:confused:


because good boys are boring.

And women just love drama, believe me.

because good boys are boring.

And women just love drama, believe me.
I don't. I'm a woman. You lose.

(Seeing as it's late and I really can't be bothered to explain things more fully to such a simplistic brain, I may as well be blunt.)

I don't. I'm a woman. You lose.

(Seeing as it's late and I really can't be bothered to explain things more fully to such a simplistic brain, I may as well be blunt.)


I also forgot to say that all women lie ;)

People who believe they're the centre if the world are boring. People who mistreat others are boring. People who won't fall in love or show any weakness are boring. People who keep being disrespectful are boring. People who believe everyone falls for them are boring. People who flirt with whoever comes across are boring.

Come on, "bad" boys can be boring as hell, too.

I prefer kind-hearted weirdos. :)

No mercy for upstart weaklings.
*decapitates you with katana*

You're a little emotional about this, don't you think?

(I'm so glad I keep spares.)

I also forgot to say that all women lie ;)


You are no gentleman! You aren't even a proper man. Only a boy would say anything so impertinent. You sir, are a cad! PM will deal with your unworthy soul; otherwise I would challenge you to a duel for the lady's honour.

After all, we have to maintain some kind of standards here...

Why do good guys finish last? Because it's polite to let the lady finish first ;)

I prefer kind-hearted weirdos. :)



Marry me. :D

Marry me. :D

I don't want to get married.
But thanks for asking!

I can only answer that question if you apply it to politics... (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=490419)

Think "Die Hard"

girls love them films because they want guys like that!

i.e. a bad boy....but one that has such loyality n love for you that he would save you from crazy terrorists at the cost of his own life!:sniper:

Can't I just be extra special? Sometimes I like spam warfare, sometimes I like to battle out debates for a long time..... :p
You say that as though I have the ability to stop you.:p But yeah, sure. A good debate is always fun.


Wahey! I'd like to say that's a brand new compliment, but not quite... ;) :D


Actually, 5 :D
Umm....nice modem?

No, no, no, NO!:eek: Five is much too many!:p

I don't. I'm a woman. You lose.

(Seeing as it's late and I really can't be bothered to explain things more fully to such a simplistic brain, I may as well be blunt.)
But...but...I always have a dramatic idiom at hand. Don't you like my dramatic idioms?:(
*swings across Great Hall from a staircase*

because good boys are boring.

And women just love drama, believe me.
What about the heartache? Do they just love that, too?:rolleyes:

People who believe they're the centre if the world are boring. People who mistreat others are boring. People who won't fall in love or show any weakness are boring. People who keep being disrespectful are boring. People who believe everyone falls for them are boring. People who flirt with whoever comes across are boring.

Come on, "bad" boys can be boring as hell, too.

I prefer kind-hearted weirdos. :)
Huzzah! Score one preference for my ilk.:cool:
So what are you doing next post?:p

You want to know why nice guys finish last? There aren't any. Men are jerks as soon as you date them. They could be the nicest people in the world to everyone else but inevitably they'll treat whoever they date like shit and then be viewed as a not-so-nice guy by some so-called "nice guy" who, if given the opportunity will date another girl and treat her like shit.
Damn Dakini, you're having a bad streak. Buck up camper-if people got the pairing right on the first try we wouldn't need datingt in the first place. You're cute kid, it'll work out.

And now for the lame joke that's been bumping in my head but I've let go until now...

Why do nice guys finish last? Because better guys are faster.

Damn Dakini, you're having a bad streak. Buck up camper-if people got the pairing right on the first try we wouldn't need datingt in the first place. You're cute kid, it'll work out.

And now for the lame joke that's been bumping in my head but I've let go until now...

Why do nice guys finish last? Because better guys are faster.
Yeah, the poor girl. I hope your corny joke works better than several of us flinging ourselves at her....

You people make me sick.

For God-only-knows how many pages, every time a guy has even thought about suggesting that women maybe behave in a predictable way that it would be valid to base one's actions on, they've been flamed to hell and back. Now, when a woman comes on here with her "all men are bastards" tripe, you're being so supportive and trying to "help her get over it".

I hope your double standards make you feel good about yourselves, because they've certainly lowered my opinion of you.

Honestly, this is a question that has been on my mind for a long time, mainly because I consider myself a "good guy". But why is it that women would rather go out with these guys that are total dickish arse-holes, instead of someone that will treat them right, and such?

Anyone have an answer?:confused:

Dicks and assholes make them horny, I suppose.

You people make me sick.

For God-only-knows how many pages, every time a guy has even thought about suggesting that women maybe behave in a predictable way that it would be valid to base one's actions on, they've been flamed to hell and back. Now, when a woman comes on here with her "all men are bastards" tripe, you're being so supportive and trying to "help her get over it".

I hope your double standards make you feel good about yourselves, because they've certainly lowered my opinion of you.
Uh, no. Everyone's told her she's wrong.
Perhaps in a slightly more sensitive way considering her experience is fresh, and recently she posted a thread which concluded she may be suffering from a bout of depression.

Either way, all times I've spoken, I know I've been doing so mainly through wanting the other person to form an actually somewhat healthy view of people and relationships, whether spoken harshly or not.

People who believe they're the centre if the world are boring. People who mistreat others are boring. People who won't fall in love or show any weakness are boring. People who keep being disrespectful are boring. People who believe everyone falls for them are boring. People who flirt with whoever comes across are boring.

Come on, "bad" boys can be boring as hell, too.

I prefer kind-hearted weirdos. :)
I would mainly agree with this :)

Umm....nice modem?

No, no, no, NO!:eek: Five is much too many!:p
Now it's 6! You twice, PM, CL, Manieacs and SHAOLIN9! Go me! :D :p

But...but...I always have a dramatic idiom at hand. Don't you like my dramatic idioms?:(
*swings across Great Hall from a staircase*
I think that's a different kind of drama to what he meant *nods*
Your drama rocks :):fluffle:

Now it's 6! You twice, PM, CL, Manieacs and SHAOLIN9! Go me! :D :p


I think that's a different kind of drama to what he meant *nods*
Your drama rocks :):fluffle:
Ehh....people aren't wearing enough hats? Wait, that isn't a compliment.... err, my, what huge tracts of land you have?

Thanks. I know, but I've got that one, too. I am a leading character in Days of Our Forums/As the Forum Turns, you know.:cool:

You are no gentleman! You aren't even a proper man. Only a boy would say anything so impertinent. You sir, are a cad! PM will deal with your unworthy soul; otherwise I would challenge you to a duel for the lady's honour.

After all, we have to maintain some kind of standards here...
hahaha my pleasure: *slays n00b*





done :D

Maybe its because when your being "nice" and inoffensive, women worry that your not showing your true opinions and reactions to things.

I'm begining to think that th OPs problem isn't so much that he's a nice guy but that he's not being himself and is not asserting his personality. he's trying too much to not offend that its putting women off. I like to think that most women like guys that are acting them selves. I always find that I have the most success when I'm not trying to and that is probably why. When I am trying I may subconciously be putting on an act.

Also when I say acting yourself I don't mean telling them everything about you and expressing every single opinion no matter how offensive. If you prefer being mysterious do that, if your loud, be loud. anyway who am I to give advice.

By the way I'm not giving up the theory that there is women out there who like a challenge. Some people are strange yeah but they exist.

Maybe its because when your being "nice" and inoffensive, women worry that your not showing your true opinions and reactions to things.

I'm begining to think that th OPs problem isn't so much that he's a nice guy but that he's not being himself and is not asserting his personality. he's trying too much to not offend that its putting women off. I like to think that most women like guys that are acting them selves. I always find that I have the most success when I'm not trying to and that is probably why. When I am trying I may subconciously be putting on an act.

Also when I say acting yourself I don't mean telling them everything about you and expressing every single opinion no matter how offensive. If you prefer being mysterious do that, if your loud, be loud. anyway who am I to give advice.

By the way I'm not giving up the theory that there is women out there who like a challenge. Some people are strange yeah but they exist.
Nice is not synonymous with submissive. I never try not to offend someone. It's a waste of time and energy and make thing much more unpleasant.

Maybe the OP is being passive instead of nice. Maybe he's just going for the wrong girls. Maybe he's being too nice and not actually taking his chances. who knows.

hahaha my pleasure: *slays n00b*





done :D
Oh, my knight in shining armour ;) :D :fluffle: :fluffle:

Oh, my knight in shining armour ;) :D :fluffle: :fluffle:
you just better be pleased i noticed my typo when i wrote that... "lays noob" wouldn't have been quite the same ;) :p

:fluffle: :fluffle:

you just better be pleased i noticed my typo when i wrote that... "lays noob" wouldn't have been quite the same ;) :p

:fluffle: :fluffle:
:eek: hehehe, very true :p
:fluffle:

you just better be pleased i noticed my typo when i wrote that... "lays noob" wouldn't have been quite the same ;) :p

:fluffle: :fluffle:
Close enough.:p

:eek: hehehe, very true :p
:fluffle:
Bah, you'd understand. You always do.;)

Maybe its because when your being "nice" and inoffensive, women worry that your not showing your true opinions and reactions to things.

I'm begining to think that th OPs problem isn't so much that he's a nice guy but that he's not being himself and is not asserting his personality. he's trying too much to not offend that its putting women off. I like to think that most women like guys that are acting them selves. I always find that I have the most success when I'm not trying to and that is probably why. When I am trying I may subconciously be putting on an act.

Also when I say acting yourself I don't mean telling them everything about you and expressing every single opinion no matter how offensive. If you prefer being mysterious do that, if your loud, be loud. anyway who am I to give advice.

By the way I'm not giving up the theory that there is women out there who like a challenge. Some people are strange yeah but they exist.

How do you know the OP isn't being himself? How do you know he isn't a legitimate nice guy? This is the recurring theme on this thread. We're given only two options: we're either lying shitbags, or wimps. Why does it not occurr to the some of the women posting here that there is a third choice? That we might be good decent people that know how to respect another? Why does being nice or kind always equal weakness?

Bah, you'd understand. You always do.;)
I am magical in being able to understand Huw *nods* :p

And Maineacs, fancy changing that to "some of the women posting here"? ;)

If your too nice a guy (genuine or not) then your gunna find it hard. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got was "you might not get as many girls as those cocky guys, but you'll get the better 1s". Its true. If your cocky and a bit arrogant your more likely to go for more girls and if you get rejected you'll dismiss it as there problem but just through "being on the field" more you'll get more women. Alot of those women will be thick as mince or on that time of the month where there really horny (so I read in the new scientist correct me if I'm wrong). A mistake, nice guys make is trying to copy those guys and because there generally not as loud and whatever they want be successful. This can also damage confidence. But occasionally you'll meet girls who are much nicer and they'll be a bit harder to get to know (only nice guys will be able to get to know) but more worth it. Nice guys will be much more successful than cocky guys in relationships so basically do not finish last. They might finish last in the "how many girls have you sh*gged" race but on average will end up happier. Although some guys are just unlucky.

There you go, I dare you to argue with that c'mon!!!!

I am magical in being able to understand Huw *nods* :p

And Maineacs, fancy changing that to "some of the women posting here"? ;)


You're right. I did the very thing I was bitching about. Fixed.

Why do good guys finish last? Because it's polite to let the lady finish first ;)

:fluffle:

Fluffle for Miss Holy See's post just before this one too...

What about the heartache? Do they just love that, too?:rolleyes:


Youd be surprised.


Why do you think they love soup operas so much?

Youd be surprised.


Why do you think they love soup operas so much?

...because they're funny?

I hate heartbreak. I also hate watching heartbreak in movies, soap-operas, etc. and reading about it in books, so.... yeah. I don't think the soap operas are fun to watch for the heartbreak part.

Edit: And just how many women watch enought soap operas for that to be a good way of measuring what they'd like? Plenty of people watch action films in which people get shot/killed. Does that mean that they want to get shot/killed?

hahaha my pleasure: *slays n00b*





done :D

Nicely done, PM --- a bit messy, but nicely done.

Youd be surprised.


Why do you think they love soup operas so much?

"soup operas"! :D I love it!

"Oh John! I can't bear it anymore! I've waited long to share your bread, and now you tell me you won't give me any cream of chicken soup with it! How could you?"

"Martha, the truth is, I've always thought of you more as plain tomato..."

*voiceover*
"Tune in tomorrow, same time, same station, for the next dramatic episode of ---
As The Stomach Turns!"

I am magical in being able to understand Huw *nods* :p

And Maineacs, fancy changing that to "some of the women posting here"? ;)
Indeed you are. *bows*

Youd be surprised.


Why do you think they love soup operas so much?
*looks at Glitzy for gender-appropriate explanation*
I don't dare to presume as much. I am not a woman and do not claim to understand their ways.

...because they're funny?

I hate heartbreak. I also hate watching heartbreak in movies, soap-operas, etc. and reading about it in books, so.... yeah. I don't think the soap operas are fun to watch for the heartbreak part.

Edit: And just how many women watch enought soap operas for that to be a good way of measuring what they'd like? Plenty of people watch action films in which people get shot/killed. Does that mean that they want to get shot/killed?
*volunteers to be shot with a staff weapon to the face*

You're right. I did the very thing I was bitching about. Fixed.
Not quite. For one thing, generalising about posters in a thread and a whole gender is different. But mainly, everyone makes generalisations - if, once you realise that, you think "oh wait, that's a generalisation and no real use" then fine. It's natural to generalise because it's simpler. Surprising as it may be, I - Miss Anti-generalisation - fall into this trap sometimes (:p). It's being able to accept that the generalisations are flawed.

"Why do nice guys finish last"

Because it's only polite.

Because that's when the scene ends.

Not quite. For one thing, generalising about posters in a thread and a whole gender is different. But mainly, everyone makes generalisations - if, once you realise that, you think "oh wait, that's a generalisation and no real use" then fine. It's natural to generalise because it's simpler. Surprising as it may be, I - Miss Anti-generalisation - fall into this trap sometimes (:p). It's being able to accept that the generalisations are flawed.
Of course it is. Generalizing allows us to consider many new possibilities. The real trick to it is trying out all the options to see which one fits best. Instead of treating every generalization as a thing to which you try to fit a person, treat every person as the thing to which the generalization molds. Find what's true and pursue that line of thought, testing all the possibilities.

*looks at Glitzy for gender-appropriate explanation*
I don't dare to presume as much. I am not a woman and do not claim to understand their ways.
Nooo..... *shakes fist* you don't get at all! :p

Women do not have "ways" as some homogenous blob. Personally, I fucking hate soaps. People who like them - some males and some females - may do so for a variety of reasons. Asking for an explanation about why "all women like soaps" is a flawed question because not all women do like soaps.

And being male does not excuse you from trying to understand a female, and does not make them any harder to understand. People are hard to understand, full stop.

Of course it is. Generalizing allows us to consider many new possibilities. The real trick to it is trying out all the options to see which one fits best. Instead of treating every generalization as a thing to which you try to fit a person, treat every person as the thing to which the generalization molds. Find what's true and pursue that line of thought, testing all the possibilities.
No, just treat people as individuals. Generalisations help very little, confuse matters, and generally create unhealthy situations. It may take more effort at first, but in the end it's far simpler and healthier to get to know a person as a person. The only "generalisations" people should make is to show people respect, and the only "generalisations" I'd make about relationships is that communication is central and vital.

Nooo..... *shakes fist* you don't get at all! :p

Women do not have "ways" as some homogenous blob. Personally, I fucking hate soaps. People who like them - some males and some females - may do so for a variety of reasons. Asking for an explanation about why "all women like soaps" is a flawed question because not all women do like soaps.

And being male does not excuse you from trying to understand a female, and does not make them any harder to understand. People are hard to understand, full stop.
Hear hear!

Nooo..... *shakes fist* you don't get at all! :p

Women do not have "ways" as some homogenous blob. Personally, I fucking hate soaps. People who like them - some males and some females - may do so for a variety of reasons. Asking for an explanation about why "all women like soaps" is a flawed question because not all women do like soaps.

And being male does not excuse you from trying to understand a female, and does not make them any harder to understand. People are hard to understand, full stop.
LOL Would it have made a difference if I hadn't forgotten the :rolleyes: smiley?;)

LOL Would it have made a difference if I hadn't forgotten the :rolleyes: smiley?;)
Damn you....
Hey, everything I said was still true, and there's the rare chance some people might still be reading this and become enlightened....

No, just treat people as individuals. Generalisations help very little, confuse matters, and generally create unhealthy situations. It may take more effort at first, but in the end it's far simpler and healthier to get to know a person as a person. The only "generalisations" people should make is to show people respect, and the only "generalisations" I'd make about relationships is that communication is central and vital.
But one cannot always do that. People aren't always individuals. The important thing to recognize about generalizations is that they cannot be applied to any individual, but that they may be evidenced in the individual, which creates a means of classification to better keep track of people and where they seem to fit with relation to oneself. The real trick of it is to remain open-minded about changes in other individuals and realize that no one follows a definite pattern, that no matter what you believe to know about a person, that one individual may be more or less than you ever expected.

Damn you....
Hey, everything I said was still true, and there's the rare chance some people might still be reading this and become enlightened....
I know, but there's a point where I unintentionally flamebait on occasion. And odds are, people will just think you're crazy and move along.:p

Hear hear!
Depends on the person. Some people are so easy to understand. It's like reading a book summary that's longer than the actual book.

Depends on the person. Some people are so easy to understand. It's like reading a book summary that's longer than the actual book.

Don't you ever leave a thread without having the last word? I suppose it makes sense though, the Don likes to finish what he starts.

Don't you ever leave a thread without having the last word? I suppose it makes sense though, the Don likes to finish what he starts.
Occasionally, but usually I see it through to the finish.

The whole you should genralise theory is very idealistic. It would be nice if people generalised alot less but still. Was thinking about it and where do you draw the line. Like when you say "i'm gunna go up to that girl and not tell her a distasteful joke coz girls dont like that". Thats a generalisation but I'm sure most of te time its true and it is a useful generalisation. i don't think gliziness fully understands as she isn't a guy going out to pull women. That isn't self pity but just saying that you have to live by some common sense generalisations to get by. I wouldnt say to a girl i first met "what team do you support?" i might say it later on but if i said it right away she might think "oh my god this guy know f*ck all about women, whys he trying to talk to me about football". I might say it but just as a random conversation starter coz sometimes stuff liek thats actually quite good to start things off rather than "hi how are you can i buy you a drink blah blah". There's no harm in noticing patterns of behaviour as long as you dont assume all girls will fall into it. You need to start somewhere dont you?

The whole you should genralise theory is very idealistic. It would be nice if people generalised alot less but still. Was thinking about it and where do you draw the line. Like when you say "i'm gunna go up to that girl and not tell her a distasteful joke coz girls dont like that". Thats a generalisation but I'm sure most of te time its true and it is a useful generalisation. i don't think gliziness fully understands as she isn't a guy going out to pull women. That isn't self pity but just saying that you have to live by some common sense generalisations to get by. I wouldnt say to a girl i first met "what team do you support?" i might say it later on but if i said it right away she might think "oh my god this guy know f*ck all about women, whys he trying to talk to me about football". I might say it but just as a random conversation starter coz sometimes stuff liek thats actually quite good to start things off rather than "hi how are you can i buy you a drink blah blah". There's no harm in noticing patterns of behaviour as long as you dont assume all girls will fall into it. You need to start somewhere dont you?
But that's what you're doing by not sharing the joke. If it's something you don't mind telling, then you shouldn't deceive a woman by not telling because she might not like it. If she doesn't, oh well. I guess she wasn't really very compatible with you. What is the distasteful joke, btw?

nice guys finish last because girls are mean

over-simplistic but basically still true

in my expierence though, nice girls feel the same way as the nice guys do

which in turn would mean that guys are mean

so everyone's mean = no one is nice

therefore no one finishes last

(girls are still mean though)

a man's talking to his daughter when she asks him "daddy why am i called petal?". he says "well dear, just after you were born as we were leaving the hospital a petal landed on your head and from then on I decided to call you petal", she says "ok but my sister rose, why is she called rose?" "well dear as we were taking rose from the hospital leving though the doors , a rose from a hanging plant pot landed on her head and fromt ehn on we decided to call her rose" Then this boy runs in the room and shouts "hhnggggmmmduuunnggg" and the dad says "SHUT UP FRIDGE!!!!"

You better laugh at that joke man it took me ages to write. It isnt the most distasteful and some guys make jokes abotu dead babys which are worse. But i wouldn;t tell a girl that joke right away coz she might think I'm wierd telling a joke like that to someone i just met. She might not find it offensive but still. Its all very well acting yourself but you don't want to be too much yourself right away if you know what i mean. hold a little bit back. It helps to be gentleman sometimes and not bring up certain things in front of girls you just met. Being a gentleman is basically a massive generalisation that girls like to see it. Another example would be if i were with a guy i just met i might take the p*ss out of him and expect it back the way guys do with nationality, what there wearing, whatever. If it was a girl i doubt i would, not as harshly anyway.

nice guys finish last because girls are mean

over-simplistic but basically still true

in my expierence though, nice girls feel the same way as the nice guys do

which in turn would mean that guys are mean

so everyone's mean = no one is nice

therefore no one finishes last

(girls are still mean though)

I think that actually hurt my brain

i try

Girls who subscribe to the illusion that they can somehow change bad boys into their image of "what they should be," wind up as women with no money ( because the "bad boy" drank it all or gambled it away or spent it on drugs or other women ), three screaming brats, and probably fat from overeating in an attempt to relieve the stress, and alone most of the time.

a man's talking to his daughter when she asks him "daddy why am i called petal?". he says "well dear, just after you were born as we were leaving the hospital a petal landed on your head and from then on I decided to call you petal", she says "ok but my sister rose, why is she called rose?" "well dear as we were taking rose from the hospital leving though the doors , a rose from a hanging plant pot landed on her head and fromt ehn on we decided to call her rose" Then this boy runs in the room and shouts "hhnggggmmmduuunnggg" and the dad says "SHUT UP FRIDGE!!!!"

You better laugh at that joke man it took me ages to write. It isnt the most distasteful and some guys make jokes abotu dead babys which are worse. But i wouldn;t tell a girl that joke right away coz she might think I'm wierd telling a joke like that to someone i just met. She might not find it offensive but still. Its all very well acting yourself but you don't want to be too much yourself right away if you know what i mean. hold a little bit back. It helps to be gentleman sometimes and not bring up certain things in front of girls you just met. Being a gentleman is basically a massive generalisation that girls like to see it. Another example would be if i were with a guy i just met i might take the p*ss out of him and expect it back the way guys do with nationality, what there wearing, whatever. If it was a girl i doubt i would, not as harshly anyway.
LMAO! That's good. Some jokes just aren't appropriate for the lover-quest, no matter how good. I've got a good one. What's worse than waking up next to a dead baby?

I dunno, what is worse than waking up next to a dead baby?

I think that actually hurt my brain
Moral of the story: don't listen to that guy.

Uhm, no.

I see these nice guy threads all the time in various places. The problem is 'nice guys' always seem to be the guys that never take initiative. They never act act all aggressive, totally passive and seem to want to wait till we fall for you.

Guess what, maybe some girl does really like you, but she is afraid to say or do something. Yes this is 2006, yes the traditional roles and rules of dating are blurred, but most women don't want to be the one to make the first move.

because gender roles are fine as long as they make it easier for the woman :D

I dunno, what is worse than waking up next to a dead baby?
Realizing you were smashed last night and made sweet, sweet love to it.

what do you get a dead baby for christmas?

what do you get a dead baby for christmas?
*waits for the answer*

oh dear. You ever told a woman that when you first met her?

answer =

a dead puppy

and I'v never told a girl that, just heard it myself 2 days ago :)

oh dear. You ever told a woman that when you first met her?
Who?

answer =

a dead puppy

and I'v never told a girl that, just heard it myself 2 days ago :)
It's not that good. Prolly 'cause you had hot, kinky sex with the Olsen twins...before they were famous.

bah, its a great joke, you just don't know good humor :p

bah, its a great joke, you just don't know good humor :p
Oh, I know good humor:

The worst mistake in history: "No, no! I said burn the shoes!!"

haha that took me a minute. good 1.

haha that took me a minute. good 1.
Thank ye, but forsooth, it was my "brother's" material, not mine.
*bows*

. . . You can be a good guy and win, you just have to learn how to be an arsehole, and then act like that all of the time. Works for me.

Yeah, I noticed. :rolleyes:

I think it's cute how there are all these guys going around bad-mouthing women who won't fuck them, and at the same time these guys are insisting on how "nice" they are. Yeah, real nice. Especially when the girls are trying their hardest to let the guys down easy, and the guys piss and moan about how the girls are sending mixed signals. . . . And, of course, none of these guys want to be FRIENDS with women. The only relationships they are interested in, when it comes to women, are the ones where they get laid. If a girl won't put out, then they've got to end their relationship with her. . . . What I'm saying is that most guys who brag about how "nice" they are turn out to be total dicks. They aren't nice in the least. There's nothing nice about thinking that you are entitled to get laid if you're polite to women.

Women, in this situation, are not trying to spare the guy's feelings. They are trying to spare their guilty consciences. The trouble with women in this situation is that they want to be able to reject anyone they choose (fair enough) and then *not take responsibility for their choice in the matter*. They expect the guy to "take the hint"? Why? To let them off the hook for their decision to reject him? That is not the guy's responsibility. It is *your* responsibility. You make the decision, YOU accept the responsibility for it. It is not the guy's duty to "let you off easily," and in fact, considering that you're rejecting him, he probably doesn't feel like doing so. He has no duty to do so. Your decision, YOUR responsibility.

This thread isn't dead yet?

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: I'm sick and freaking tired of guys whining about how girls only go for the guys that treat them like assholes. This makes me so angry, so feel free to skip what I write below.

Oh really, dumbass? Maybe you ought to take a look at the kind of girls you are interested in. Good guys don't finish last - good girls do. Cuz we fall for the good guys, who all seem to be too shallow or blind or pathetic or dumb to notice us. No, all they notice are the skantily clad 5'8 girls who weigh 100 pounds and go out with boys for their money, looks, or social status. The bimbos are for some reason the girls that these supposed "good guys" like, and then they get all heart broken when the bimbos don't realize they exist. Well, boo-freaking-hoo. Maybe if you'd pry your head out of your ass, you'd realize your doing the EXACT same thing you whine about to all the good girls that like you.

Man, im so angry i'm tempted to use a gun smiley.

Ladies and gentlemen, once again, proof that men suck.

You do realize that "nice guys finish last" is a double entendre and a good thing?

Good guys don't finish last. They get just as much dissappointment as the next guy. They aren't immune to something just because they're nice. Unfortunately, the same goes for girls too. There are good guys and bad guys, the bad ones just don't care as much. It's merely a matter of finding the good girls. And for all the nice girls, it's just a matter of finding the nice guys. And perhaps sometimes it's not finding them, it's finding their hearts.

Man, I hope no one notices how on-topic we are at page 45. We are breaking The Rule!

This thread isn't dead yet?

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: I'm sick and freaking tired of guys whining about how girls only go for the guys that treat them like assholes. This makes me so angry, so feel free to skip what I write below.

Oh really, dumbass? Maybe you ought to take a look at the kind of girls you are interested in. Good guys don't finish last - good girls do. Cuz we fall for the good guys, who all seem to be too shallow or blind or pathetic or dumb to notice us. No, all they notice are the skantily clad 5'8 girls who weigh 100 pounds and go out with boys for their money, looks, or social status. The bimbos are for some reason the girls that these supposed "good guys" like, and then they get all heart broken when the bimbos don't realize they exist. Well, boo-freaking-hoo. Maybe if you'd pry your head out of your ass, you'd realize your doing the EXACT same thing you whine about to all the good girls that like you.

Man, im so angry i'm tempted to use a gun smiley.

Ladies and gentlemen, once again, proof that men suck.

Yeah, I agree. I'd like to add thats its amazing the number of men who get interested in you AFTER finding out you are a lesbian. I mean WTF?!

This thread isn't dead yet?

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: I'm sick and freaking tired of guys whining about how girls only go for the guys that treat them like assholes. This makes me so angry, so feel free to skip what I write below.

Oh really, dumbass? Maybe you ought to take a look at the kind of girls you are interested in. Good guys don't finish last - good girls do. Cuz we fall for the good guys, who all seem to be too shallow or blind or pathetic or dumb to notice us. No, all they notice are the skantily clad 5'8 girls who weigh 100 pounds and go out with boys for their money, looks, or social status. The bimbos are for some reason the girls that these supposed "good guys" like, and then they get all heart broken when the bimbos don't realize they exist. Well, boo-freaking-hoo. Maybe if you'd pry your head out of your ass, you'd realize your doing the EXACT same thing you whine about to all the good girls that like you.

Man, im so angry i'm tempted to use a gun smiley.

Ladies and gentlemen, once again, proof that men suck.
Your generalizations wound me. Have you read nothing I posted?

Man, I hope no one notices how on-topic we are at page 45. We are breaking The Rule!
Meh. Rules are made to be broken. Doesn't happen too often.

Yeah, I agree. I'd like to add thats its amazing the number of men who get interested in you AFTER finding out you are a lesbian. I mean WTF?!
They want to feel special that you gave up women for them. Dunno how that's supposed to work...*shrugs*

I'd tend to agree with WC... but.. I think all my ex's were assholes.. well, all but one, but they weren't when we were together.

meh... I'm loosing a care factor for this

*snoozes at desk*

Honestly, this is a question that has been on my mind for a long time, mainly because I consider myself a "good guy". But why is it that women would rather go out with these guys that are total dickish arse-holes, instead of someone that will treat them right, and such?

Anyone have an answer?:confused:

Because what a lot of women see as attractive, or good qualities in a mate are precisely part of what would make a poor choice for a mate. If they go for the good looks, most likely they will be disappointed. Pretty boys are vain by nature. Narcissistic. They preen. It makes for a superficial person. And when you are hung up on outward appearances, you don't bother with taking the time to dig a little deeper to uncover that veneer to see what's underneath. They like self confidence but mistake arrogance for being that. They like to be pursued, but mistake that pursuit for interest, when in all odds it is just another horny guy. If the guy is truly interested IN THEM as a person, then odds are good that they are emotionally unsure of their chances of getting disappointed all over again if they take that chance, and will be probably a little cautious.

I could go on and on. But give me one women, and tell her, "We have ten men here for you to choose from," (one total *sshole and nine nice understanding and considerate guys, you know, the kind of guys they all say they want....) "now pick one."

Guess who she'll go for.

My suggestion? Divorced women. They have already chased after Mr. Right, have gotten burned doing that, and so the odds are better that they will be looking for the kind of guy that YOU are.

Man, im so angry i'm tempted to use a gun smiley.

Ladies and gentlemen, once again, proof that men suck.


Wow. And I thought that I was bitter.

Wow. And I thought that I was bitter.

oh you are

:p

oh you are

:p

I didnt mean taste;) ;)

Because what a lot of women see as attractive, or good qualities in a mate are precisely part of what would make a poor choice for a mate. If they go for the good looks, most likely they will be disappointed. Pretty boys are vain by nature. Narcissistic. They preen. It makes for a superficial person. And when you are hung up on outward appearances, you don't bother with taking the time to dig a little deeper to uncover that veneer to see what's underneath. They like self confidence but mistake arrogance for being that. They like to be pursued, but mistake that pursuit for interest, when in all odds it is just another horny guy. If the guy is truly interested IN THEM as a person, then odds are good that they are emotionally unsure of their chances of getting disappointed all over again if they take that chance, and will be probably a little cautious.

I could go on and on. But give me one women, and tell her, "We have ten men here for you to choose from," (one total *sshole and nine nice understanding and considerate guys, you know, the kind of guys they all say they want....) "now pick one."

Guess who she'll go for.

My suggestion? Divorced women. They have already chased after Mr. Right, have gotten burned doing that, and so the odds are better that they will be looking for the kind of guy that YOU are.
Aww, someone posted on-topic. :( :p

I could go on and on. But give me one women, and tell her, "We have ten men here for you to choose from," (one total *sshole and nine nice understanding and considerate guys, you know, the kind of guys they all say they want....) "now pick one."

Guess who she'll go for.
Bullshit.

Your theory for why some women may act in a certain way is fine.
Saying that all women act that way is not.

Bullshit.

Your theory for why some women may act in a certain way is fine.
Saying that all women act that way is not.
Precisely. Case in point: I fail because I don't really try. Granted, I don't really know where to begin either, but I haven't found one 'round 'bouts these parts who suits me. Not all of it's on the women. Some nice guys just look in the wrong places or don't really look at all.

Precisely. Case in point: I fail because I don't really try. Granted, I don't really know where to begin either, but I haven't found one 'round 'bouts these parts who suits me. Not all of it's on the women. Some nice guys just look in the wrong places or don't really look at all.

Has anybody mentioned yet that it's also about confidence? I don't mean arrogance; just the sense that you aren't "unworthy" or out of place with a woman you like, without being an idiot about it.

There was this girl in my class when I was in ninth grade ... long story short, I really liked her, and we had talked a bit, but I'd never ask her out because I had this idea that she was out of my league. It could have ended like that, but she arranged a "party" at the end of the year and asked me to it. Then she had a couple of her friends ask me if I was going. I went, although I was so nervous I showed up a little drunk. On the day everybody else suddenly couldn't make it and the party was just the two of us. Later I found out, the bit about a party had been a ruse all along, just to get the two of us together, because she'd gotten frustrated with me being too stupid to realize she was waiting for me to ask her out!

Tenth grade was a great year! ;)

And I started learning to stop assuming I would lose without even trying. It took me some time to really learn this lesson (I'm shy when I'm face-to-face with people). But eventually I realized that more times than I guessed, what I used to think was a girl just being polite and friendly was really a girl being interested in me and hoping I had the interest and cajones to ask her out. If it weren't for that first girl, I might've gone through high school and university thinking that girls I liked couldn't really want to go out with me. And I might've kept acting like a jerk around girls I like. As it was, I started learning to believe in myself.

And that eventually led to me meeting the woman who has been my very wonderful wife for almost 3 decades now.

Sometimes when I think back, I suspect I could have gone out with some really nice girls through junior high if only I'd learned this sooner, but at least I got there in the end. But I know I was very lucky to learn it at all.

You know what, it isn't about finishing last. If you are comfortable about who you are and confident, then finishing last isn't an option for you, even if not being with a loved one hurts. If you believe in yourself, then you become attractive. Screw this nice guys finishing last. Be nice, but don't think you will finish last.

Any objections?

Has anybody mentioned yet that it's also about confidence? I don't mean arrogance; just the sense that you aren't "unworthy" or out of place with a woman you like, without being an idiot about it.

There was this girl in my class when I was in ninth grade ... long story short, I really liked her, and we had talked a bit, but I'd never ask her out because I had this idea that she was out of my league. It could have ended like that, but she arranged a "party" at the end of the year and asked me to it. Then she had a couple of her friends ask me if I was going. I went, although I was so nervous I showed up a little drunk. On the day everybody else suddenly couldn't make it and the party was just the two of us. Later I found out, the bit about a party had been a ruse all along, just to get the two of us together, because she'd gotten frustrated with me being too stupid to realize she was waiting for me to ask her out!

Tenth grade was a great year! ;)

And I started learning to stop assuming I would lose without even trying. It took me some time to really learn this lesson (I'm shy when I'm face-to-face with people). But eventually I realized that more times than I guessed, what I used to think was a girl just being polite and friendly was really a girl being interested in me and hoping I had the interest and cajones to ask her out. If it weren't for that first girl, I might've gone through high school and university thinking that girls I liked couldn't really want to go out with me. And I might've kept acting like a jerk around girls I like. As it was, I started learning to believe in myself.

And that eventually led to me meeting the woman who has been my very wonderful wife for almost 3 decades now.

Sometimes when I think back, I suspect I could have gone out with some really nice girls through junior high if only I'd learned this sooner, but at least I got there in the end. But I know I was very lucky to learn it at all.
Yeah, it was mentioned, but the anecdote's always welcome. I used to think the same way, that they couldn't possibly be interested, until I heard from some friends what they were really saying to each other. But I was never interested in them, so nothing came of it. Now I give myself license to make an effort; I just don't know anyone worth the effort now.

You know what, it isn't about finishing last. If you are comfortable about who you are and confident, then finishing last isn't an option for you, even if not being with a loved one hurts. If you believe in yourself, then you become attractive. Screw this nice guys finishing last. Be nice, but don't think you will finish last.

Any objections?
There is no first or last. Or even finishing, for that matter. Either one finds someone or not.

Why do good guys finish last?

I'm a good guy and I frequently finish "in the money."

I'm a good guy and I frequently finish "in the money."
So what're you getting at?

........

........

...............

o.O

There is no first or last. Or even finishing, for that matter. Either one finds someone or not.

Umm..last, first wasn't the point. The point was being confident in yourself enough where these things don't effect you.

"Either one finds someone or not" is a passive position and if you want to find someone, I wouldn't advise this attidude.

Umm..last, first wasn't the point. The point was being confident in yourself enough where these things don't effect you.

"Either one finds someone or not" is a passive position and if you want to find someone, I wouldn't advise this attidude.
It wasn't a question. I'm saying there is no finishing first or last, or finishing at all. It's not a race. And I have no idea how you get that finding something is passive. It's not overly aggressive, but certainly not passive. I didn't say "Either it falls from the sky and hits you over the head or not." One must seek it with all that he is. Better?

It wasn't a question. I'm saying there is no finishing first or last, or finishing at all. It's not a race. And I have no idea how you get that finding something is passive. It's not overly aggressive, but certainly not passive. I didn't say "Either it falls from the sky and hits you over the head or not." One must seek it with all that he is. Better?

Where did you get the First and last thing from then? You responded to me. "First" wasn't in my post, you made that up. Race, what race? I advocate a position of allowing a male to be confident and strong (and females for that matter). The sky falling shit I don't understand.

Honestly, this is a question that has been on my mind for a long time, mainly because I consider myself a "good guy". But why is it that women would rather go out with these guys that are total dickish arse-holes, instead of someone that will treat them right, and such?

i can half answer that question. sorta. in my own screwed up way.

See, i've dated the nice guy and i've dated the.. erm.. arse-hole.
nice guys tend to be super clingy, and i, unlike some women, don't want a guy that thats going to basicaly let me drag him around by the balls. i don't want some one who's going to let me win every arguement without a fight (yes, i want to win, and i intend to, but i'd like to yell and scream about it for a good half hour first). the last "nice guy" i dated would just say "you're right." Well of course i'm right. but thats not really the point. i want some one who's not afraid to put me in my place. i may go kicking and screaming, btu thats half the fun.

secondly, we sometimes see the nice guy inside the "bad boy." sure, he can be a jerk, and he'll tease us mercilessly about things that we wish he wouldn't bring up in general public, but when know one is around, he will worship the ground we walk on. When he thinks no one is looking, he will do anything (that doesn't go against his "morals") for us. Its a dimension thing.

Third, the jerk usually says exactly what is on his mind. We're all thinking it, he has the balls and lack of self doubt to say it. this oozes confidence. Confidence, even when feigned, is sexy. hell, even cocky-ness (yes, i made that word up.) is sexy, and even more so when it hides true shy-ness.

i can half answer that question. sorta. in my own screwed up way.

See, i've dated the nice guy and i've dated the.. erm.. arse-hole.
nice guys tend to be super clingy, and i, unlike some women, don't want a guy that thats going to basicaly let me drag him around by the balls. i don't want some one who's going to let me win every arguement without a fight (yes, i want to win, and i intend to, but i'd like to yell and scream about it for a good half hour first). the last "nice guy" i dated would just say "you're right." Well of course i'm right. but thats not really the point. i want some one who's not afraid to put me in my place. i may go kicking and screaming, btu thats half the fun.

secondly, we sometimes see the nice guy inside the "bad boy." sure, he can be a jerk, and he'll tease us mercilessly about things that we wish he wouldn't bring up in general public, but when know one is around, he will worship the ground we walk on. When he thinks no one is looking, he will do anything (that doesn't go against his "morals") for us. Its a dimension thing.

Third, the jerk usually says exactly what is on his mind. We're all thinking it, he has the balls and lack of self doubt to say it. this oozes confidence. Confidence, even when feigned, is sexy. hell, even cocky-ness (yes, i made that word up.) is sexy, and even more so when it hides true shy-ness.


What about a guy who is nice, but hides his bad side, but always appears nice, but when he isn't around his girlfriend he's not so much "the nice guy", but not extremely bad. He doesn't show his bad side because he doesn't feel that is right. What about this type of male?

Where did you get the First and last thing from then? You responded to me. "First" wasn't in my post, you made that up. Race, what race? I advocate a position of allowing a male to be confident and strong (and females for that matter). The sky falling shit I don't understand.
If there is a last there must invariably be a first. And if you don't understand the simple concepts of my post, you probably shouldn't bother responding. I only serve to confuse you more.

i can half answer that question. sorta. in my own screwed up way.

See, i've dated the nice guy and i've dated the.. erm.. arse-hole.
nice guys tend to be super clingy, and i, unlike some women, don't want a guy that thats going to basicaly let me drag him around by the balls. i don't want some one who's going to let me win every arguement without a fight (yes, i want to win, and i intend to, but i'd like to yell and scream about it for a good half hour first). the last "nice guy" i dated would just say "you're right." Well of course i'm right. but thats not really the point. i want some one who's not afraid to put me in my place. i may go kicking and screaming, btu thats half the fun.

secondly, we sometimes see the nice guy inside the "bad boy." sure, he can be a jerk, and he'll tease us mercilessly about things that we wish he wouldn't bring up in general public, but when know one is around, he will worship the ground we walk on. When he thinks no one is looking, he will do anything (that doesn't go against his "morals") for us. Its a dimension thing.

Third, the jerk usually says exactly what is on his mind. We're all thinking it, he has the balls and lack of self doubt to say it. this oozes confidence. Confidence, even when feigned, is sexy. hell, even cocky-ness (yes, i made that word up.) is sexy, and even more so when it hides true shy-ness.
Ah, but a nice guy can be cocky (and no, you didn't make that up). Works out kinda funny, though. I enjoy a good argument. Nothing wrong with that. Doesn't make me any less of a nice guy.

If there is a last there must invariably be a first. And if you don't understand the simple concepts of my post, you probably shouldn't bother responding. I only serve to confuse you more.

You're right, I've recently seen some of your posts beyond this thread and I am aware of your extremely high I.Q. Indeed, when I signed up for my account they mentioned your ability to manipulate arguments in the most creative way.

If what you say is right, then this thread is pointless and an extreme intelligence as yours would understand that the statement, "good guys finish last" wouldn't make sense to your massive IQ because if there is a last, then there is a first, as you said. So your massive intellect would have comprehended the fact and would have forseen that, "why do good guys finish first" is as equaly true as "why do good guys finish last", considering what you say -- if there is a last then there is a first.
h

Ha, what I said just made no sense, but I wonder if Brain FD understands why.

Ha, what I said just made no sense, but I wonder if Brain FD understands why.

Hah! Even I understood your previous post was full of shit :p

Hah! Even I understood your previous post was full of shit :p

Which post? If you are going to talk about it, quote it and say why it is full of shit.

You're right, I've recently seen some of your posts beyond this thread and I am aware of your extremely high I.Q. Indeed, when I signed up for my account they mentioned your ability to manipulate arguments in the most creative way.

If what you say is right, then this thread is pointless and an extreme intelligence as yours would understand that the statement, "good guys finish last" wouldn't make sense to your massive IQ because if there is a last, then there is a first, as you said. So your massive intellect would have comprehended the fact and would have forseen that, "why do good guys finish first" is as equaly true as "why do good guys finish last", considering what you say -- if there is a last then there is a first.
h

I think it speaks for itself.

What about a guy who is nice, but hides his bad side, but always appears nice, but when he isn't around his girlfriend he's not so much "the nice guy", but not extremely bad. He doesn't show his bad side because he doesn't feel that is right. What about this type of male?

then he's not showing his girlfriend all of himself. Not showing the "bad side" because he doesn't feel that it's right is also not being true to himself. it's that dimensional thing again. its all about layers. love and onions, that is.

this also falls into the "lies" category. fall into that one, and you are screwed, good or bad.

Ah, but a nice guy can be cocky (and no, you didn't make that up). Works out kinda funny, though. I enjoy a good argument. Nothing wrong with that. Doesn't make me any less of a nice guy.

no it doesn't make you less of a nice guy. and yes, a nice guy can be cocky, but.. blah, see this is where things get fuzzy in that department. its a magnetism thing. because everyone has both sides to them (ying, yang, and all that jazz) but the kinds of cocky-ness vary. i feel like i'm talking myself in circles, or into a corner. its very hard to explain. most people chalk it up to one of the great mysteries of the universe, but by god, there is a reason, for me anyway, i just can't completely put it into words.

The windmill is still winning.

I think it speaks for itself.

How so? Tell me what is wrong with it. May be there isn't anything wrong with it. Do you know or don't you? Just get FD to solve it.

You're right, I've recently seen some of your posts beyond this thread and I am aware of your extremely high I.Q. Indeed, when I signed up for my account they mentioned your ability to manipulate arguments in the most creative way.

If what you say is right, then this thread is pointless and an extreme intelligence as yours would understand that the statement, "good guys finish last" wouldn't make sense to your massive IQ because if there is a last, then there is a first, as you said. So your massive intellect would have comprehended the fact and would have forseen that, "why do good guys finish first" is as equaly true as "why do good guys finish last", considering what you say -- if there is a last then there is a first.
h



*tear*
i think i love you. sarcasm AND logic. love love love.

then he's not showing his girlfriend all of himself. Not showing the "bad side" because he doesn't feel that it's right is also not being true to himself. it's that dimensional thing again. its all about layers. love and onions, that is.

this also falls into the "lies" category. fall into that one, and you are screwed, good or bad.

You're right, although the layers thing I don't understand. It is the "lies" catergory. Yet, how bad of lie, I don't know-- it isn't huge if, you know, you're not off doing really bad thigs. But yeah, you got be yourself. I don't believe this nice guy finishes last thing, do you Banifish?

*tear*
i think i love you. sarcasm AND logic. love love love.

lol. He deseved it.

You're right, although the layers thing I don't understand. It is the "lies" catergory. Yet, how bad of lie, I don't know-- it isn't huge if, you know, you're not off doing really bad thigs. But yeah, you got be yourself. I don't believe this nice guy finishes last thing, do you Banfish?

about the layers, er dimensions, none of us really want a guy who is just nice or just "bad", thats all it means.

as far as the nice guys finishing last, no, i don't believe it. either the little argument thats been going on or the actual saying. the argument is ludicrous (but highly amusing), the saying almost more so. because in the end, we all get what we deserve or believe we deserve, it's a matter of trying to get it.

hmm. i should probably take my own advice and give a certain "arse-hole" i know a call but i'm a pansy.

also, who was gravedigging and found this post?

Ha, what I said just made no sense, but I wonder if Brain FD understands why.
If that's how you want to play it, I won't dignify replying to it.

no it doesn't make you less of a nice guy. and yes, a nice guy can be cocky, but.. blah, see this is where things get fuzzy in that department. its a magnetism thing. because everyone has both sides to them (ying, yang, and all that jazz) but the kinds of cocky-ness vary. i feel like i'm talking myself in circles, or into a corner. its very hard to explain. most people chalk it up to one of the great mysteries of the universe, but by god, there is a reason, for me anyway, i just can't completely put it into words.
Yeah, but most people try to be either the ying or the yang, with that regard at least, not embrace the natural shades between. And you are talking yourself in circles, but sometimes it just takes a little momentum to launch from the circle. Tangential velocity and all that.

lol. He deseved it.
Deserved what? You lacking the simple decency to hold a civil discussion?

The windmill is still winning.


Three cheers for the windmill!!

HIP-HIP- . . . . . . . .
HIP-HIP- . . . . . . . .
HIP-HIP- . . . . . . . .

Now, should we discuss whether the windmill is a nice guy or a bad boy? I vote mostly a nice guy but with layers of bad boy-ness to be revealed at regular intervals (that coincide with turning of the blades --- think revelation of things behind the blades, and of the inexorable damage done by the blades if someone gets too close --- could be fun to unravel the symbolism, no?)

:p

Three cheers for the windmill!!

HIP-HIP- . . . . . . . .
HIP-HIP- . . . . . . . .
HIP-HIP- . . . . . . . .

Now, should we discuss whether the windmill is a nice guy or a bad boy? I vote mostly a nice guy but with layers of bad boy-ness to be revealed at regular intervals (that coincide with turning of the blades --- think revelation of things behind the blades, and of the inexorable damage done by the blades if someone gets too close --- could be fun to unravel the symbolism, no?)

:p
Excellent.
*steeples fingers as a blade strikes you squarely in the crotch*

You're right, I've recently seen some of your posts beyond this thread and I am aware of your extremely high I.Q. Indeed, when I signed up for my account they mentioned your ability to manipulate arguments in the most creative way.

If what you say is right, then this thread is pointless and an extreme intelligence as yours would understand that the statement, "good guys finish last" wouldn't make sense to your massive IQ because if there is a last, then there is a first, as you said. So your massive intellect would have comprehended the fact and would have forseen that, "why do good guys finish first" is as equaly true as "why do good guys finish last", considering what you say -- if there is a last then there is a first.
h

Stands back with popcorn and patiently awaits the results of who will dazzle with whom with brilliance who will baffle whom with BS.

Stands back with popcorn and patiently awaits the results of who will dazzle with whom with brilliance who will baffle whom with BS.
I prefer to dazzle with baffling brilliant BS.;):p

Three cheers for the windmill!!...


Ironically, I don't think "The Don Quixote" even caught the windmill reference. :p

Honestly, this is a question that has been on my mind for a long time, mainly because I consider myself a "good guy". But why is it that women would rather go out with these guys that are total dickish arse-holes, instead of someone that will treat them right, and such?

Anyone have an answer?:confused:
Because they are women, and they are always trying to keep you on your toes by doing the unexpected.

And maybe you just need to add a little dick to your personality... :D

Ironically, I don't think "The Don Quixote" even caught the windmill reference. :p
Don't worry. It'll come 'round to hit his ass on the way out...oh, wait, that's the door....

Because they are women, and they are always trying to keep you on your toes by doing the unexpected.

And maybe you just need to add a little dick to your personality... :D
*munches popcorn and waits for Glitzy to tear you apart*

also, who was gravedigging and found this post?
Viviani, I just looked back two pages, and that was the biggest break I saw, from the 11th to the 19th

I prefer to dazzle with baffling brilliant BS.;):p
*notes FDs choice*

*nods*

*puts a check mark in the BS box*

Good lord this thread is still open? I made this like...a month ago!

*munches popcorn and waits for Glitzy to tear you apart*
Meh. I was joking, let *Glitzy* be mad. That's almost as intimidating a name as Star, but without the stripper overtones.

Good lord this thread is still open? I made this like...a month ago!
Someone brought in a necromancer and used revive. And you made this two months ago. Luckily we have converted it to our own purposes.

Someone brought in a necromancer and used revive. And you made this two months ago. Luckily we have converted it to our own purposes.


Fine with me.

*notes FDs choice*

*nods*

*puts a check mark in the BS box*
Hey! No false representation on part of the audience!:p

Good lord this thread is still open? I made this like...a month ago!
I blame Ruffy!:mad:

Meh. I was joking, let *Glitzy* be mad. That's almost as intimidating a name as Star, but without the stripper overtones.
You miss the point.

Hey! No false representation on part of the audience!:p
Hey! No calling the peanut gallery the audience!

*puts check mark in the testy box too*

Hey! No calling the peanut gallery the audience!

*puts check mark in the testy box too*
Say, what else is on that checklist of yours?
*tries to nonchalantly look over the top of the clipboard*

Say, what else is on that checklist of yours?
*tries to nonchalantly look over the top of the clipboard*



Nothing to see here move along now.




*checks nosy box*

Nothing to see here move along now.




*checks nosy box*
Guess there's nothing to see he....wait a minute! Meh, it's prolly better if I just move along.
*walks away*

Damn Spammers.

Damn Spammers.
Spammers!? (http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/1726/hijack5er.jpg) Well, I never! :eek:

Excellent.
*steeples fingers as a blade strikes you squarely in the crotch*


And here I'd hoped you would appreciate a little surreal relief, but no, you prefer to keep the spam on-topic. Some people, eh?

That's how you miss things.

Ironically, I don't think "The Don Quixote" even caught the windmill reference. :p


Is it possible that you and I are the only two here who actually know the story?
:eek:
Or are we just the only two who care?

Fine with me.


Does this mean you've now found the solution you were after, and this question is no longer on your mind?

Woo-hoo! Do you mean to say that a thread in NS General has actually solved something?! After that, I guess we can expect to see one of those chimpanzees come out of the room with the completed typescript of Shakespeare.

:)

And here I'd hoped you would appreciate a little surreal relief, but no, you prefer to keep the spam on-topic. Some people, eh?

That's how you miss things.
Nope. Miss nothing. Just passing the post....er, time.

Nope. Miss nothing. Just passing the post....er, time.


I guess it's about all that's left in this thread. Passing, that is, not missing. Now that the thread has/hasn't resolved this burning issue for Zilam, what else can we do? Really, coming back here to see if anyone has said anything more constructive is a bit like going out into the garden and finding a crystal chandelier hanging from the bird-feeder. Or maybe that was just what going out into the garden and finding a crystal chandelier hanging from the bird-feeder was like, and coming back here is more like finding the squirrels in the park all wear muttonchops and refuse to eat acorns.

But we did stay OT (sort of) for a long time didn't we? In a strange way, it's as if the ability to stay OT (sort of) was inversely proportional to the urgency of the OP to keep it OT (sort of).

I feel a mathematical equation coming on here ... I think it's time for my next meds ... or maybe just another cup of coffee.

Honestly, this is a question that has been on my mind for a long time, mainly because I consider myself a "good guy". But why is it that women would rather go out with these guys that are total dickish arse-holes, instead of someone that will treat them right, and such?

Anyone have an answer?:confused:

Perhaps it is just that you only THINK they are all dicks...a perception coloured out of jealousy that they are the ones banging the girls you like?


:p

I guess it's about all that's left in this thread. Passing, that is, not missing. Now that the thread has/hasn't resolved this burning issue for Zilam, what else can we do? Really, coming back here to see if anyone has said anything more constructive is a bit like going out into the garden and finding a crystal chandelier hanging from the bird-feeder. Or maybe that was just what going out into the garden and finding a crystal chandelier hanging from the bird-feeder was like, and coming back here is more like finding the squirrels in the park all wear muttonchops and refuse to eat acorns.

But we did stay OT (sort of) for a long time didn't we? In a strange way, it's as if the ability to stay OT (sort of) was inversely proportional to the urgency of the OP to keep it OT (sort of).

I feel a mathematical equation coming on here ... I think it's time for my next meds ... or maybe just another cup of coffee.
I find that to be the case with most threads. They tend to be incredibly insightful toward the topic at some point after degenerating completely into spam. Must be the deat throes.

I find that to be the case with most threads. They tend to be incredibly insightful toward the topic at some point after degenerating completely into spam. Must be the deat throes.


Oh no! Not deat throes! THE MODS ARE COMING TO GET US! THE MODS ARE COMING TO GET US! WE'RE ALL DOOMED!

:eek:

Sorry, I'm tired and bored and thought I could try and spice things here up a little.

Of course you're right. All threads are subject to a kind of entropy.

You know why niceguys finish last? Because women are not as stupid as you think they are.

There's only four types of "niceguys".

#1; The pretend to be nice. Then when they get married (or even just after dating for awhile) they turn into real assholes but sense women can't just turnoff thier emotions to someone just like that, they stay with them.

#2; The doormats. These guys are nice cause they don't know how to be anything else. They let people walk all over them, and they don't standup for themselves, mindyou, they don't deserve the treatment they get, but God-damnit, you have balls, act like it!

#3; The psychos. Sure they're nice, that's cause they're getting thier anger out by some other means. These guys you can ussualy tell cause they're creepy while nice. They probably won't invite you to thier place cause there's bodies hanging off the ceiling or something.

And #4; The normal niceguys. But they're very rare, so women don't bother to look for them. As they're probably already taken.

So most girls look for something that's a healthy medium, mean enough to know what you're getting yourself into, but nice enough to where you know they'll actually care about you. Even the niceguys can do something really stupid or hurtful..

Girls want the following;

Honosty.
(Sure it pisses them off, but it'll piss them off more when they foundout you lied. So be a man and tell the truth. )

Fearless.
(This doesn't mean being a dumbass, but you have to be willing to put your foot down sometimes.)

Love for them.
(They don't want a fucking Princess Diana, but they want you to love them. Men think that being nice means they have to be nice to everyone, stop worrying about what everyone else thinks and worry about what your girl thinks.)

Love for yourself.
(Don't tolerate a cheating bitch, don't tolerate whores, women love confidence, confidence is right up there with attention. If you can be confident and give them the attention they need, you could have any girl you wanted.)

Look at me, I'm horrible, people say I've got the compassion of Stalin, that I have not an ounce of sympathy for anyone but myself and my closest friends. And girls like me, they talk to me, they ask me for help, and a couple of them want in my pants, even when they have boyfriends! Why?

Confidence.
And I know how to make a girl the center of attention.

Women like bad guys so that they can try to change him into a good guy

I think I'll officially give up on this thread.

I'll just leave on this:
There is nothing that all girls want.
There are no magical characteristics that all girls want and will fall head over heels because of. (Not even confidence.)
There is no statement you can make about all girls that will be true, unless it's biological fact.

Anyone who can't accept those things, does not deserve a woman.

The single one thing I can say about any relationship with a woman is that you should fit the reltionship around individual needs and wants and opinions.

(all of the same applies in the reverse for men)

Look at me, I'm horrible, people say I've got the compassion of Stalin, that I have not an ounce of sympathy for anyone but myself and my closest friends. And girls like me, they talk to me, they ask me for help, and a couple of them want in my pants, even when they have boyfriends! Why?
Either you're not as bad as you say you are, or they're crazy/stupid/have some emotional problem.

And now I shall go cry and eat chocolate to some weepy film (as the woman I am - emotional, dramatic, attention-seeking, manipulative and in need of manly care) because I don't intimidate Surf Shack....

Either you're not as bad as you say you are, or they're crazy/stupid/have some emotional problem.
As bad as I say I am? I havn't said I was bad. Get the cum out your ears bitch.

And now I shall go cry and eat chocolate to some weepy film (as the woman I am - emotional, dramatic, attention-seeking, manipulative and in need of manly care)
Naww, crackwhores don't need men. All they care about is dick and crack. Which that's the vibe I get from you. You're a liberal, I just know it.

Rule one of being a man; Don't tolerate those infrior to you. Man, woman, even god..

And now I shall go cry and eat chocolate to some weepy film (as the woman I am - emotional, dramatic, attention-seeking, manipulative and in need of manly care) because I don't intimidate Surf Shack....
I don't quite remember what I said, but at least I got mentioned uber pages later! I'm gonna go look it up I suppose...

Oh no! Not deat throes! THE MODS ARE COMING TO GET US! THE MODS ARE COMING TO GET US! WE'RE ALL DOOMED!

:eek:

Sorry, I'm tired and bored and thought I could try and spice things here up a little.

Of course you're right. All threads are subject to a kind of entropy.
Yeah, that was really a typo. But I was too lazy to fix it and thought it sounded a little creative.

The odd thing about the entropy is that threads usually get that final, intense burst of on-topicity. Heh, I love making up new terms/words.

You know why niceguys finish last? Because women are not as stupid as you think they are.

There's only four types of "niceguys".

#1; The pretend to be nice. Then when they get married (or even just after dating for awhile) they turn into real assholes but sense women can't just turnoff thier emotions to someone just like that, they stay with them.

#2; The doormats. These guys are nice cause they don't know how to be anything else. They let people walk all over them, and they don't standup for themselves, mindyou, they don't deserve the treatment they get, but God-damnit, you have balls, act like it!

#3; The psychos. Sure they're nice, that's cause they're getting thier anger out by some other means. These guys you can ussualy tell cause they're creepy while nice. They probably won't invite you to thier place cause there's bodies hanging off the ceiling or something.

And #4; The normal niceguys. But they're very rare, so women don't bother to look for them. As they're probably already taken.

So most girls look for something that's a healthy medium, mean enough to know what you're getting yourself into, but nice enough to where you know they'll actually care about you. Even the niceguys can do something really stupid or hurtful..

Girls want the following;

Honosty.
(Sure it pisses them off, but it'll piss them off more when they foundout you lied. So be a man and tell the truth. )

Fearless.
(This doesn't mean being a dumbass, but you have to be willing to put your foot down sometimes.)

Love for them.
(They don't want a fucking Princess Diana, but they want you to love them. Men think that being nice means they have to be nice to everyone, stop worrying about what everyone else thinks and worry about what your girl thinks.)

Love for yourself.
(Don't tolerate a cheating bitch, don't tolerate whores, women love confidence, confidence is right up there with attention. If you can be confident and give them the attention they need, you could have any girl you wanted.)

Look at me, I'm horrible, people say I've got the compassion of Stalin, that I have not an ounce of sympathy for anyone but myself and my closest friends. And girls like me, they talk to me, they ask me for help, and a couple of them want in my pants, even when they have boyfriends! Why?

Confidence.
And I know how to make a girl the center of attention.
:eek: Oh nooooooes! On-topic post!
Don't DO that!

I think I'll officially give up on this thread.

I'll just leave on this:
There is nothing that all girls want.
There are no magical characteristics that all girls want and will fall head over heels because of. (Not even confidence.)
There is no statement you can make about all girls that will be true, unless it's biological fact.

Anyone who can't accept those things, does not deserve a woman.

The single one thing I can say about any relationship with a woman is that you should fit the reltionship around individual needs and wants and opinions.

(all of the same applies in the reverse for men)


Either you're not as bad as you say you are, or they're crazy/stupid/have some emotional problem.

And now I shall go cry and eat chocolate to some weepy film (as the woman I am - emotional, dramatic, attention-seeking, manipulative and in need of manly care) because I don't intimidate Surf Shack....
Somehow I get the feeling this is more my fault than his....:(

Somehow I get the feeling this is more my fault than his....:(
Dammit Glitzi, what did I say!!!!!
I don't remember, please, just tell me so I don't have to look for it...