NationStates Jolt Archive

Seems we should consider "accent" and "dialect" interchangable in Ny Nordland's posts, for the sake of avoiding senseless nitpicking.

The fact of the matter is that there IS a homogenous black dialect in the US and that dialect IS a strong marker of culture.

Thank you. Actually her tactic is effective. Stupidity wears her opponents down...
That can't be true...it's all you've got and yet we keep coming at you...

Well, it's been a slice. While I'm gone, maybe My Nordland can convince New Granada to create a more effective argument for him.

OH! You want us to INTERPRET your argument! So you can say a few lines, and we should glean your entire intent from that! Fantastic....hope you realise that won't necessarily work in your favour...

Don't 'play mysterious'. Say what you mean. Make your point...and don't pretend that you included great nuance and meaning that only 'some' people get...because for one...that might mean that your little 'my english isn't so great' facade will melt away and reveal the truth...and for another...I don't give you that much credit.

We aren't here to mindread. State your point, and back it up. This isn't twenty guesses.

Stop it this instant. You are sinking even lower and humiliating yourself. This is the original post. It isnt edited as you can see:



I was talking about US "black culture," for what it's worth. It doesn't exist either.



Sure. You can say anything. You can say yourself doesnt exist as well. Or gravity doesnt exist.
Quick simple question. If there are no black US culture, why does blacks have different accents? Accent -> Language -> Culture, no?

To quote wiki


African American culture is both part of, and distinct from American culture. From their earliest presence in North America, Africans and African Americans have contributed literature, art, agricultural skills, foods, clothing styles, music, and language to American culture.


How old are you Soheran btw???



http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11210480&postcount=452

The relationship between "accents" and culture (and hence my point) is clear with the "->"...

You know....I think rap is known world wide, for better or for worse, for its content..lyrics and rappers. Now my question is, does anyone think its a problem that blacks glorify poverty, killing, drug dealing, no go spots for Whites, crime, basically lowering the status of women to bitches, hoes, and sluts, and an all around lack of respect for goverment/ law and authority?

Now, personally, I like rap, but I think most rappers are idiots...I just like listening to their music. But I know thats not always the case. Many young blacks and whites (known as wiggers) think of these people as their idols and look up to them, for whatever reason, ie they think their cool, they are the cloest to a real father figure...whatever.

Anyway, while most rap flaunts the things I'm talking about, I have a video which does it without breaking stride. Hustlin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az1o6YrnBb4&search=rick%20ross%20hustlin)

First it starts off in Miami Beach...then strays east into areas notorious to Whites in South Florida like my self...areas such as Liberity City, Carol City, Overtown. These areas are...well, some of the shittiest areas I can think of, comparable to Watts, Compton and such...just other black 'ghettos'.

Anyway, please, state your opinion...dicuss, vote...and in my thread, so long as you dont flame, you have complete freedom of speech, so say what you like...because without open discussion, we have nothing.

*for those not familiar with black slang, hustling means selling/moving/pushing drugs*

I cant stand rap or hip hop especially gangsta rap but I chalk that up to my age as much as anything. I dont much care for some of the courser lyrics being thumped into my ears at a range of 100 meters from goofy lookin cars either. But it's no worse than the crap I blasted from my car stereo when I was that age. I dont think rap will poison the minds of impressionable young people any more than rock and roll or punk did. Since at least the 1920s its pretty much been the job of the young to adopt music which they predict will shock their parents and its been the job of the old to be shocked and predict that the music will be the downfall of society. So far the kid's predictions are more accurate.

So I dont enjoy hip hop or rap but I dont think it will be the end of the world as we know it. It will probably make the lil whippersnappers go deaf if they dont turn that shit down in their cars though.

Incidentally, since when have the Irish hated the Poles?
Everyone hates the Poles, didn't you know?
Bloody Poles, with their Pole language and, um..Pole stuff and that and always doing that weird Pole shit all the time.
Damn it, Thay should just go back to their own bloody country - The North Pole. or even further!

Everyone hates the Poles, didn't you know?
Bloody Poles, with their Pole language and, um..Pole stuff and that and always doing that weird Pole shit all the time.
Damn it, Thay should just go back to their own bloody country - The North Pole. or even further!

I thought everyone hated the Irish, and the Irish in turn, hate everyone else for hating them for being hated by every other group?

I am a teacher, and I am a minority. I teach at a school that is about 55% White, 30% Black, 15% Hispanic and about 5% of other races.

I will say this: poor blacks as a whole have a completely different way of thinking than any other group I deal with. As a whole, they tend to blame me when their child fails more than any other group. As a whole, the children are more defiant than any other group. As a whole, they ridicule and discriminate against high-achieving blacks. As a whole, they glorify dumbasses like Terrell Owens for "keepin' it real" (which basically means, "act 'black' -- whatever the hell that means -- and don't act white, even if it means losing your job, etc... ya gotta keep it real!)

Black culture in America is really a self-defeating way of thinking, and continues the vicious cycle of poverty in America. If saying that makes me racist, then fine; I'm racist. I've even spoken to students of my opinion (privately, in appropriate situations), and when I explain it, not one has disagreed. I have not fully made my case, but I'd be glad to go further into it.

Here here!

Sinuhue,

Forgive me for saying this, but you really, really get hung up on minutiae. I mean, you'll argue over a definition of a word, when you could have otherwise contributed something interesting to the discussion. The accent vs. dialect thing on page 33 was ridiculous... you were arguing that ebonics was an accent or a dialect, or neither... but you seemed more interested in trying to make Ny look stupid than actually talking about his actual point... or something related to his actual point.

Ebonics is pretty universal in inner cities. I've heard it in New York, Los Angeles, Miami, Dallas... it's remarkably similar wherever you go. Whether it's called an accent or a dialect, whatever... it's a common thread. Pretend that's what he meant and stop nit-picking. It seems like you're trying to win a contest.

If that's the case, congratulations, you won a cookie.

Sinuhue,

Forgive me for saying this, but you really, really get hung up on minutiae. I mean, you'll argue over a definition of a word, when you could have otherwise contributed something interesting to the discussion. The accent vs. dialect thing on page 33 was ridiculous... you were arguing that ebonics was an accent or a dialect, or neither... but you seemed more interested in trying to make Ny look stupid than actually talking about his actual point... or something related to his actual point.

Ebonics is pretty universal in inner cities. I've heard it in New York, Los Angeles, Miami, Dallas... it's remarkably similar wherever you go. Whether it's called an accent or a dialect, whatever... it's a common thread. Pretend that's what he meant and stop nit-picking. It seems like you're trying to win a contest.

If that's the case, congratulations, you won a cookie.

I know right, the dude is fucking Norwegian arguing in English...cut him some fucking slack.

Anyway, good post...I like you. Good call about the ebonics in the ghettos being pretty universal..I agree.

Ebonics is pretty universal in inner cities. I've heard it in New York, Los Angeles, Miami, Dallas... it's remarkably similar wherever you go. Whether it's called an accent or a dialect, whatever... it's a common thread. Pretend that's what he meant and stop nit-picking. It seems like you're trying to win a contest.

And, of course, blacks only live in inner cities.

I know right, the dude is fucking Norwegian arguing in English...cut him some fucking slack.

Anyway, good post...I like you. Good call about the ebonics in the ghettos being pretty universal..I agree.

Much appreciated... and I'm not sure how anyone who lives in this country could think any differently about ebonics :) Apparently, some do (or pretend to in order to ruffle feathers and get attention...)

And, of course, blacks only live in inner cities.

Nope. I never said that, now did I? Not all blacks live in the inner city, and not all use ebonics. But ebonics is heard all over the U.S., mostly with poor inner-city blacks. I'm not sure how you could argue that point?

Educated/middle class/wealthy blacks rarely speak it, or if they do, only do so around other blacks.

Again, I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, just pointing out what I've seen as the general trend.

Much appreciated... and I'm not sure how anyone who lives in this country could think any differently about ebonics :) Apparently, some do (or pretend to in order to ruffle feathers and get attention...)

They are politically correct fools/tools who think that if you dont like every aspect of black culture, homosexuality or the idea of fornicating trees, you are on par with the KKK and belong on Stormfront.

Nope. I never said that, now did I? Not all blacks live in the inner city, and not all use ebonics. But ebonics is heard all over the U.S., mostly with poor inner-city blacks. I'm not sure how you could argue that point?

Educated/middle class/wealthy blacks rarely speak it, or if they do, only do so around other blacks.

Again, I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, just pointing out what I've seen as the general trend.

Also, the black culture in question is the ones that come from the 'ghettos' and 'projects' and stuff....the values being discussed arnt the values of blacks who have assimilated into mainstream America and have adopted middle class values.

Hes trying to throw this off topic...dont let him.

Anyone notice how few non-whites voted at all?

They want to know what white people think but don't say in public. It has been quite an eye opener.

They want to know what white people think but don't say in public. It has been quite an eye opener.

It seems the vast majority of whites, internationally voted that they saw what I described in my OP as a problem.

Anyone notice how few non-whites voted at all?
Maybe all that proves is that there's very few non-white ppl on this forum...

Maybe all that proves is that there's very few non-white ppl on this forum...

non-whites, especially blacks, are too stupid to know how to use the internet.

non-whites, especially blacks, are too stupid to know how to use the internet.
chugga chugga chugga...toot! toot!
All aboard for the one track mind!

Well...its like 99% black.

there are some spanish in it now, but they sorta assimilated to the black culture aspect of it.

Rap is black.
Is Jazz Black? What about the blues? Rock and Roll? Hip hop is just another very popular musical creation of the very musical African-American population. Just because 'black' people invented it doesn't mean they own it. In fact, as history shows, it usually ends up that some black virtuoso is outdone in his own style by a far more successful white artist. Neverhteless, all of the genres naturalise themselves to match the culture in which they are being performed. There is French Ghetto rap, just as there is french Jazz, and French rock. Indeed, I am listening to 'Jay Chow', a hugely popular Taiwanese hip hop artist.

Jay Chow...

I'm sorry, but the idea of an asian rapper just cracks me up.

Is Jazz Black? What about the blues? Rock and Roll? Hip hop is just another very popular musical creation of the very musical African-American population. Just because 'black' people invented it doesn't mean they own it. In fact, as history shows, it usually ends up that some black virtuoso is outdone in his own style by a far more successful white artist. Neverhteless, all of the genres naturalise themselves to match the culture in which they are being performed. There is French Ghetto rap, just as there is french Jazz, and French rock. Indeed, I am listening to 'Jay Chow', a hugely popular Taiwanese hip hop artist.

How DARE you do anything other than blame black people?

Jay Chow...

I'm sorry, but the idea of an asian rapper just cracks me up.
You should check him out. It's good stuff. Though hardly rap. Think Eminem and you've got a similar sound (-whiny white boy, +ultra-cool chinese).He has just done a song for Jet Li's new movie 'Legend' I don't know what it is called in english though. It is Awesome!

I'm non-white, non-American,
and I think that production, possession, or utilisation of rap-music/ghetto-music ought to made a severe criminal offence.

Oh I've gone round and round with him on this one. He's not changing his mind. In his limited exposure, he believes that he and others like him are the only way to be Jewish, even though Torah, Talmud, thousands of years of Rabbinical writings, and nearly all modern Jews disagree with him and I have proven as such to him, he still sticks to his guns.

Agree or disagree but in some ways that is an admiable quality.

I'm non-white, non-American,
and I think that production, possession, or utilisation of rap-music/ghetto-music ought to made a severe criminal offence.

What country are you from?

Agree or disagree but in some ways that is an admiable quality.

Sticking to your guns in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is not, in any way, an admirable quality.

It is far more admirable to admit you are wrong.

Food ...

I find the bringing up of food into a culture amusing. Traditional human food was whatever the hell we could find laying about and, sometimes, a slab of raw meat from some animal laying dead and bloated in the woods somewhere.

Let's not get into the food vs. culture thing, shall we? It's kinda pointless.

True "Chinese" food is, well, whatever was laying about that could be eaten.

Obviously "sweet and sour pork" is a very modern thing, but that doesn't make it any less traditional. The most wonderful thing about tradition is that new ones are constantly being made.

What country are you from?

I live in the UK these - and deeply love that country.
Was born somewhere else.
But that is owt of your concern.

So saying whites likes to tan and when they do, they apply sun cream is racist? ROFL...:rolleyes:

Took me a while to reply but...
You laugh at that and that was exactly the point I was making because someone else was complaining the thread is racist. Well what's going on in this thread? Most of us are doing exactly that - associating certain kinds of behavior with certain ethnic groups based on our personal observations over the years. My point was there's nothing wrong with that...just like there's nothing wrong with associating whites and tanning.

True racism is beliving in the blood - believing that being of a particular ethnic group makes you inherently better or worse than another.

I live in the UK these - and deeply love that country.
Was born somewhere else.
But that is owt of your concern.

No, I'm just interested in your answer as a non-white...thats all. I agree with you, I was just asking about your background...sorry if it came off wrong. :)