NationStates Jolt Archive

Ha! My tax bracket suggests otherwise.

The US is the most capitalist of all western nations

Morality IS our way of life. Well, it's mine anyway. I suppose its a back seat for you. But fighting to preserve what we hold dear, by shucking morality, is at best counterproductive and at worst pure hypocrisy.
No, our way of life is easy, materialist, having more than we need, and peace. this is everything the other side hates and what we must fight to protect

The same goes for Bin Laden, but you've said that basically every Muslim country should be annihilated.

You clearly want to commit war crimes on foreign Muslims and nobody else.
If I write the history book, who will call it a war crime?

So if a white guy like McVeigh tries to kill your people, should whites be exterminated?
Since he's one of my people, the question doesn't work. Let's say it was Europeans. Yeah. If Europeans attack the US with weaponized smallpox I'll celebrate the nuclear destruction of everyone including my relatives over there.

McVeigh isn't a valid comparison in this case.

He was acting alone, or with a very small group of people. Yes, I would kill off everyone who was a member of the Christian Identity movement.

Oh, so if a white guy associated with a small movement of christianity does something, kill off that movement. If a guy associated with a certain sect of Islam does something, kill all brown people. Makes 100% sense.

Ignore the reasons why. Ignore the motives. Anyone wishing to harm another human should be identified as a murderer. Not a religious extremist. Not an Al-Qaeda operative. But a murderer in and of itself. Murderers are the people you have problems with. Not muslims.

Since he's one of my people, the question doesn't work.

Of course! You are now crowned the King of Cop-outs.

The US is the most capitalist of all western nations


Socialism and capitalism aren't exactly mutually exclusive. And being more capitalist than a bunch of anti-capitalist nations isn't all that decisive an accomplishment.


No, our way of life is easy, materialist, having more than we need, and peace. this is everything the other side hates and what we must fight to protect

Huh. No morality then?
So in other words you are agreeing with Islamic militants?

You deny that we’re capable of descending into that kind of madness?

Yes, I do deny it. There is no way such actions would be allowed in the US. A few soldiers torture some alleged terrorists and we go insane with the investigations and calls for the imprisonment of the ones who did the torturing. There is no way the American people would stand idley by while we wiped out an entire religion or people.

Ah, I don't call them names.

It's unwise to call your enemy names, because it encourages a sense of confidence that is not born out by the willingness of the enemy to die for their cause.

Respect your enemy, and then kill them.

And I suppose Germany "respected" all the Jews back in the 1940s like you're proposing to "respect" every Muslim in the world down to man, woman and child.

:rolleyes:

It's one thing to kill an active enemy, but to openly advocate genocide of an ethnic group just because the terrorists happen to share one with them albeit a hardcore and downright perversely twisted version of it? The Terrorists have won long ago. It also unravels all that the United States tried to stand for since World War 2.

The only good thing about this is that you're not even an influence in the United States government or all those doomsday predictions about 2012 would be guaranteed to come true.

No, we don't. We never have. Hitler wanted the world and tried to take it, but we didn't kill *all* Germans in response.

We will never decide to wipe out all Muslims or all Arabs, regardless of what a group of them do.

It seems as though some have abandoned a sense of proportionality in war.

Since he's one of my people, the question doesn't work. Let's say it was Europeans. Yeah. If Europeans attack the US with weaponized smallpox I'll celebrate the nuclear destruction of everyone including my relatives over there.

My point exactly.

When it comes to conventional military or conventional terrorist attacks, everything is small potatoes - nothing worth getting too upset over.

But a large scale smallpox attack, as is desired by al-Q and others - that's different. We're talking national survival.

Haven't had a problem in combat with people who like to torture people - they're all dead. And I'm here.
Poor reading comprehension, too. My god, it turns out a person really does have to be flat-out stupid to say the things you do.

If I write the history book, who will call it a war crime?
Yes, but you won't, because you're an idiot, and would get killed in seconds in a real war.

Poor reading comprehension, too. My god, it turns out a person really does have to be flat-out stupid to say the things you do.
You seem to think I wouldn't survive around tough people.

Turns out I've been around tougher situations than you know.

My point exactly.

When it comes to conventional military or conventional terrorist attacks, everything is small potatoes - nothing worth getting too upset over.

But a large scale smallpox attack, as is desired by al-Q and others - that's different. We're talking national survival.
What have Yemen done to deserve genocide, then?

Yes, but you won't, because you're an idiot, and would get killed in seconds in a real war.
I've been in a real war, and I didn't get killed - or even wounded.

Can't say the same for the people I shot.

What have Yemen done to deserve genocide, then?
Hotbed of Salafist thought - from which stems the majority of anti-Western hatred.

I've been in a real war, and I didn't get killed - or even wounded.

Can't say the same for the people I shot.
The Republican Guard and the SAS, for example, are different in their skills.

Yes, I do deny it. There is no way such actions would be allowed in the US. A few soldiers torture some alleged terrorists and we go insane with the investigations and calls for the imprisonment of the ones who did the torturing. There is no way the American people would stand idley by while we wiped out an entire religion or people.

Americans are people like everyone else, similarly, I’d think their commitment to moral principles are as strong as everyone else.

Nope. I would use a tailored biological that renders them sterile.

Which only works if you rely on you the delusion that Muslims are a separate species and not even remotely human.

AIDS spread from simians to humans in a matter of years and look what happened all the way to now. Even bird flu has a strong possibility of mutating to a more human-specific form.

A sterilization agent tailored to a human ethnic group is going to have little or no difficulty spreading to affect the "Un-Terrorist" population of the world.

Hotbed of Salafist thought - from which stems the majority of anti-Western hatred.
The Bush Administration has caused some amazing levels of anti-Middle Eastern hatred, but I don't see you desiring their annihilation.

The Republican Guard and the SAS, for example, are different in their skills.
I was in the 2/502nd, 101st Air Assault, and engaged Republican Guard troops - not with smart weapons, or bombs - but with an M-24 rifle.

Yes, there's a difference in skills. But not in spirit or intent.

It seems as though some have abandoned a sense of proportionality in war.

Aye, some have, and that saddens me. I hope things change rapidly after the November elections.

But a large scale smallpox attack, as is desired by al-Q and others - that's different. We're talking national survival.

So you know what al-qaeda wants? You must be working directly with them...

The Bush Administration has caused some amazing levels of anti-Middle Eastern hatred, but I don't see you desiring their annihilation.

Or maybe you just see the entire middle east as radical muslims.

Ladies and Gentlemen, no amount of talk will convince DK to change his mind. I encourage everyone to leave this thread and let me him rot in it. Don't give gim the satisfaction.

The Bush Administration has caused some amazing levels of anti-Middle Eastern hatred, but I don't see you desiring their annihilation.
Can't say as I can see where Bush caused the hatred that wanted them to blow up the World Trade Center in 1993.

Bush wasn't even President then. So, are you going to blame Clinton for that level of Middle Eastern hatred?

Ladies and Gentlemen, no amount of talk will convince DK to change his mind. I encourage everyone to leave this thread and let me him rot in it. Don't give gim the satisfaction.
Neo, I've had this exact discussion about six months ago.

Just doing it to remind people, especially the newcomers.

I was in the 2/502nd, 101st Air Assault, and engaged Republican Guard troops - not with smart weapons, or bombs - but with an M-24 rifle.

I'd almost say I don't believe you, but I'd rather believe you because you are further proof that service in the modern US Military tends to lead to assholery.

Or maybe you just see the entire middle east as radical muslims.
I don't at all... I know that many Persians, for example, are not radical Muslims in the slightest...

And DK - I can't see you going up against the SAS, even as a sniper. And killing the Republican Guard from hundreds of metres away in the desert is not going to be the same as taking the SAS on in a city where you'll doubtless be cowering in.

If I write the history book, who will call it a war crime?
I will. I can write too. Care to start THAT fight? 'Cause I'm game, bitch. And I will never stop until you are crushed beneath my feet -- kinda like the Terminator. :)

Can't say as I can see where Bush caused the hatred that wanted them to blow up the World Trade Center in 1993.

Bush wasn't even President then. So, are you going to blame Clinton for that level of Middle Eastern hatred?

Who was president before Clinton? In 1992, only a year before, Old Bush was in office.

To be honest, I think it all started with Reagan. But thats just an opinion.

Can't say as I can see where Bush caused the hatred that wanted them to blow up the World Trade Center in 1993.

Bush wasn't even President then. So, are you going to blame Clinton for that level of Middle Eastern hatred?
I was a bit young to tell whether Clinton stirred up the xenophobic elements of the US at the time, I'm afraid.

If he did, then yeah. If not, no.

I don't at all... I know that many Persians, for example, are not radical Muslims in the slightest...

And DK - I can't see you going up against the SAS, even as a sniper. And killing the Republican Guard from hundreds of metres away in the desert is not going to be the same as taking the SAS on in a city where you'll doubtless be cowering in.
I don't know about that. I stood up at 400 meters and let the group of them shoot at me before I decided that it was enough to justify shooting back.

It is amazing the level of Ad Hominums being used in this forum. I understand this thread is highly emotional, but can we try to come back to a civilized conversation without name calling. Name calling and using vulgar language makes you sound as intellegent as a person advocating genocide.

Since he's one of my people, the question doesn't work. Let's say it was Europeans. Yeah. If Europeans attack the US with weaponized smallpox I'll celebrate the nuclear destruction of everyone including my relatives over there.
I don't want to be redundant, so everything I'm saying to DK, please read it as addressed to you as well. Thanks.

It is amazing the level of Ad Hominums being used in this forum. I understand this thread is highly emotional, but can we try to come back to a civilized conversation without name calling. Name calling and using vulgar language makes you sound as intellegent as a person advocating genocide.

I didn't feel it needed to be pointed out, but I agree about the name calling.

You get a lot of name calling from people who have no legitimate argument.

I didn't feel it needed to be pointed out, but I agree about the name calling.

You get a lot of name calling from people who have no legitimate argument.


I have no problem with expressing ideas, no matter how radical it may seem from my point of view but wow, this forum is getting so foul that drunken sailors would blush.

Oh, so if a white guy associated with a small movement of christianity does something, kill off that movement. If a guy associated with a certain sect of Islam does something, kill all brown people. Makes 100% sense.

Ignore the reasons why. Ignore the motives. Anyone wishing to harm another human should be identified as a murderer. Not a religious extremist. Not an Al-Qaeda operative. But a murderer in and of itself. Murderers are the people you have problems with. Not muslims.



Of course! You are now crowned the King of Cop-outs.
No, I'm not copping out. See, people are wired to extend sympathy and human rights to those within their group. In a hunter/gatherer band, the members of another band might be seen as enemies and potential food sources, but those within the band are accorded protection. Since Tim was an American, he's within my tribe. It's much harder for me to dehumanize him. Since I don't recognize Saudi Arabians or Yemeni as members of my group, it's much easier for me to flip the internal switch and see them as an enemy to be exterminated.

I don't know about that. I stood up at 400 meters and let the group of them shoot at me before I decided that it was enough to justify shooting back.
400 metres is a fairly long way for an army mostly armed with AK74Ms or less. You had a sniper rifle. And are, if you weren't lying, fairly well trained. It's not exactly a fair fight, is it?

Nope. I would use a tailored biological that renders them sterile.

Ditto.

And 70 years (or so later) no more problem.

And I am Jewish--and I can see the difference between committing genocide and protecting my country. I do not wish to kill anyone--but if they come after me or my family I remove them from the Earth as if they never existed. And since I cansider my country my extended family, same logic applies.

Name calling and using vulgar language makes you sound as intellegent as a person advocating genocide.

*giggle*

400 metres is a fairly long way for an army mostly armed with AK74Ms or less. You had a sniper rifle. And are, if you weren't lying, fairly well trained. It's not exactly a fair fight, is it?
They had two PK machineguns, which have an effective range well in excess of 400 meters.

They were not armed with AK74 - they were armed with AKM rifles.

I was able to hit the first few in the head, but then they began to run. So I shot the remainder in the back.

400 metres is a fairly long way for an army mostly armed with AK74Ms or less. You had a sniper rifle. And are, if you weren't lying, fairly well trained. It's not exactly a fair fight, is it?

lol all is fair in love and war. If someone is trying to kill me with a knife I want to be 100 yards away with a rifle. Fair does not equate in this situation.

I do not wish to kill anyone--but if they come after me or my family I remove them from the Earth as if they never existed. And since I cansider my country my extended family, same logic applies.

Fine. This I can accept. What I cannot accept is wiping out everyone with the same religion or skin color as the ones who came after your family simply because of the ones who came after your family.

DK says we should wipe out anyone remotely Arab or Persian or Indonesian. All of them. Every Muslim on the planet, including the White American ones, he wants dead. He is advocating their genocide.

No Jew should be on his side.

Ditto.

And 70 years (or so later) no more problem.

And I am Jewish--and I can see the difference between committing genocide and protecting my country. I do not wish to kill anyone--but if they come after me or my family I remove them from the Earth as if they never existed. And since I cansider my country my extended family, same logic applies.

"Never Again... unless they're dirty brown-skinned Muslims."

Nazi Germany was a threat that went after you and your family and the Germanic people weren't removed from the Earth.

How convenient.

I was able to hit the first few in the head, but then they began to run. So I shot the remainder in the back.

Such a hero. I shall name my next bowel movement in your honor.

Ditto.

And 70 years (or so later) no more problem.

And I am Jewish--and I can see the difference between committing genocide and protecting my country. I do not wish to kill anyone--but if they come after me or my family I remove them from the Earth as if they never existed. And since I cansider my country my extended family, same logic applies.


Might I ask what does stating you are Jewish have to do with this discussion, other than give an illusion to the holocost?

400 metres is a fairly long way for an army mostly armed with AK74Ms or less. You had a sniper rifle. And are, if you weren't lying, fairly well trained. It's not exactly a fair fight, is it?

Wait a sec......to be fair you'd rather he be trying to bring them down with a rambo war-bow or with sticks? In war you use wahtever tools you have available. Or maybe to be fair he would also have had to remove his uniform also. Sorry--confused.

Yootopia - it's what he's trained to do. Fair fight or not... I'm guessing you don't understand the whole logic of plowing billions of $ in your military just so you have that advantage!

We killed Zarqawi? That's what, the second, third time?

Also, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU, DK?!

Such a hero. I shall name my next bowel movement in your honor.
I thought you did the last time we had this discussion.

Wait a sec......to be fair you'd rather he be trying to bring them down with a rambo war-bow or with sticks? In war you use wahtever tools you have available. Or maybe to be fair he would also have had to remove his uniform also. Sorry--confused.

I'd have a lot more respect for a greased up naked dude taking out some guys in full gear with machine guns than I could ever have for someone who would shoot people in the back.

We killed Zarqawi? That's what, the second, third time?

Also, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU, DK?!

We have his body this time. His picture has been on the news all day long

I'd have a lot more respect for a greased up naked dude taking out some guys in full gear with machine guns than I could ever have for someone who would shoot people in the back.

Again all is fair in love and war.

We have his body this time. His picture has been on the news all day long
Huh. I could've sworn they said he got hit by a missile.

This is fucked up. Deep Kimchi used what he had available to him. You're speaking with no sense Keruvalia! If someones shooting at him to KILL he has to shoot back to KILL! Not his fault he can do it is it? Shut the fuck up.

Huh. I could've sworn they said he got hit by a missile.

When a building is hit by a missle the building implodes, we went through the rubble and found his body. Either that or the news is misleading us, or maybe I misunderstood.

Yootopia - it's what he's trained to do. Fair fight or not... I'm guessing you don't understand the whole logic of plowing billions of $ in your military just so you have that advantage!
Yootopia is under the illusion that combat is "fair".

Watches too many movies while reading transcripts from the Hague.

Again all is fair in love and war.

Love? So raping the woman you love so she'll get pregnant and be forced to marry you is fair?

No ... not all is fair in love or war.

Now I'm just going to wait for him and Designated Marksman to throw together a Haditha Celebration Party.

Shut the fuck up.

THank you for clarifying your position, it makes so much more sense. Sigh

Fine. This I can accept. What I cannot accept is wiping out everyone with the same religion or skin color as the ones who came after your family simply because of the ones who came after your family.

DK says we should wipe out anyone remotely Arab or Persian or Indonesian. All of them. Every Muslim on the planet, including the White American ones, he wants dead. He is advocating their genocide.

No Jew should be on his side.
Then this Jew is on his side, and will happily devise the agent, should the need apply.

People hate me for the fact that I am what I am--I know that feeling well. I am hated for being jewish AND american. When I visited the middle east, if I were alone I would have been killed. The hate I personally saw simply directed at me for who I am was blazing, unreasonable, and utterly immovable. I was not a person, but something to be killed. So I realized then that with someone like that you cannot hope to reason, negotiate, or come to terms. You either kill him, or you die instead. And the mindset in the middle east is based on dominance and submission--if you are stronger they will bow to you, but if you cooperate or compromise, that is shown as weakness and as such, death. Again, I'd rather not kill anyone, but the best way is to break the spirit of such enemy--and the only way to do it is to be even more brutal then they can imagine.

Which is a shame, but that's life for you.

Now I'm just going to wait for him and Designated Marksman to throw together a Haditha Celebration Party.
I may be wrong, but I think I saw a post by DK stating that if the marines murdered civilians at Hadithat they too (the marines) are terrorists.

Now I'm just going to wait for him and Designated Marksman to throw together a Haditha Celebration Party.
Nope. I view Haditha as an unwelcome aberration.

Given the strategy the current Administration is undertaking, it's a bad move.

When are you going to get it through your head that I concentrate on the strategy and tactics, and the morality be damned.

Love? So raping the woman you love so she'll get pregnant and be forced to marry you is fair?

No ... not all is fair in love or war.

Wow way to take a quote from War and peace and distort it viciously. Besides rape is usually about power not love or lust. Come on people use some common sense and work within the context of the current discussion.

THank you for clarifying your position, it makes so much more sense. Sigh

Sorry? I think it's quite clear...

This is fucked up. Deep Kimchi used what he had available to him. You're speaking with no sense Keruvalia! If someones shooting at him to KILL he has to shoot back to KILL! Not his fault he can do it is it? Shut the fuck up.

DK claims he shot fleeing men in the back. That is unjustifiable and intolerable.

Then this Jew is on his side, and will happily devise the agent, should the need apply.

People hate me for the fact that I am what I am--I know that feeling well. I am hated for being jewish AND american. When I visited the middle east, if I were alone I would have been killed. The hate I personally saw simply directed at me for who I am was blazing, unreasonable, and utterly immovable. I was not a person, but something to be killed. So I realized then that with someone like that you cannot hope to reason, negotiate, or come to terms. You either kill him, or you die instead. And the mindset in the middle east is based on dominance and submission--if you are stronger they will bow to you, but if you cooperate or compromise, that is shown as weakness and as such, death. Again, I'd rather not kill anyone, but the best way is to break the spirit of such enemy--and the only way to do it is to be even more brutal then they can imagine.

Which is a shame, but that's life for you.


Keru doesn't understand the idea that most of them want us dead. He himself would be killed as an apostate in many of the places I've talked about.

Might I ask what does stating you are Jewish have to do with this discussion, other than give an illusion to the holocost?


I pointed it out solely because judaism came in into the discussion both as an allusion to what DK was advocating, and also a prior post made it a point to point out his religion and stating that he was now an enemy. I pointed out my support and that not all people shared that view.

DK claims he shot fleeing men in the back. That is unjustifiable and intolerable.
If they didn't want me to shoot them, they should not have shot at me until the position looked untenable.

They can't have it both ways - shoot and then run.

British soldiers hung Germans in WW II who had run away after running out of ammunition shooting at British troops.

Perfectly legal under the rules of war.

Nope. I view Haditha as an unwelcome aberration.

Given the strategy the current Administration is undertaking, it's a bad move.

When are you going to get it through your head that I concentrate on the strategy and tactics, and the morality be damned.

Oh come now... you're all for exterminating anyone and everyone professing the Muslim faith but a blatant massacre of Muslims is unacceptable to you?

:rolleyes:

I'd think you'd be starting a petition campaign to exonerate the Marines involved and even have them awarded the Medal of Honor.

Come on people use some common sense and work within the context of the current discussion.

I am simply using hyperbole in disagreeing with the assessment that "all is fair in love and war".

No, not all is fair. Genocide isn't fair, even if it's war.

No, I'm not copping out. See, people are wired to extend sympathy and human rights to those within their group. In a hunter/gatherer band, the members of another band might be seen as enemies and potential food sources, but those within the band are accorded protection. Since Tim was an American, he's within my tribe. It's much harder for me to dehumanize him. Since I don't recognize Saudi Arabians or Yemeni as members of my group, it's much easier for me to flip the internal switch and see them as an enemy to be exterminated.

Ahhh... rings of Hume's conception of sympathy and moral motivation, love it.

I pointed it out solely because judaism came in into the discussion both as an allusion to what DK was advocating, and also a prior post made it a point to point out his religion and stating that he was now an enemy. I pointed out my support and that not all people shared that view.


Ok thank you so much for clarification :)

You seem to think I wouldn't survive around tough people.

Turns out I've been around tougher situations than you know.
Honey, you're a text book example of a punk-bitch. You might do all right in the military where you've got armor and guns and people smarter than you to tell you where to stand and where to point your weapon, but I am confident you'd be a passed-around girlfriend for the drug-gangs in a real US maximum-security prison. And you wouldn't do much better on the outside, either. The best a lapdog like you could hope for would be to end up as a burnt-out mule for some meth outfit. You'd die, used-up and old before your time, face down in your own vomit, like all the rest.

Why do I think this? Because you have no integrity. You have no sense of self, let alone self-respect. Over and over I see it with you, the way you suck up to authority -- all that worshipping and licking, it's disgusting -- the way you demonize outsiders and volunteer with a hearty "Ja wohl, Mein Fuhrer!" to commit atrocious crimes -- and for what? For nothing, nothing at all but an empty promise that YOU'll survive, YOU won't die, YOU won't get hurt by the people you're so damned afraid of. You are driven into hell by your crippling fear of every shadow. The temptation is almost overwhelming to play with it, to see how low you'll go, how much you will debase and degrade yourself to have some authority figure promise to take care of you.

We all know you'd gladly electrocute the balls of a helpless prisoner, but the joke is that people like you would electrocute their own balls if Daddy told them to, just to keep Daddy smiling at them.

And the funniest part is, eventually, that's exactly how people like you end up -- suffering the torments you set up for others.

"Never Again... unless they're dirty brown-skinned Muslims."

Nazi Germany was a threat that went after you and your family and the Germanic people weren't removed from the Earth.

How convenient.

I was born an lived in Kiev--the place where Babiy Yar is located (and a million bodies) I know of the holocaust first hand. And it is a horrible, horrible thing.

But when someone wants you dead solely because you are an american, or jewish, or purple, or armenian, a rastafarian, or whatever.......and NO negotiation is possible--you kill them. There is no choice. Or lease you die and so does your family.

Oh come now... you're all for exterminating anyone and everyone professing the Muslim faith but a blatant massacre of Muslims is unacceptable to you?

:rolleyes:

I'd think you'd be starting a petition campaign to exonerate the Marines involved and even have them awarded the Medal of Honor.

No. Massacre without a point is a worthless act. Especially if it runs counter to the overall strategy.

If it was part of the overall strategy, it would have been OK.

But, you don't read my posts. I prefer the use of a tailored biological weapon that merely permanently sterilizes the population.

Then they could be as stupid as they like - and in 70 years, they won't exist.

Then this Jew is on his side, and will happily devise the agent, should the need apply.

Nice to see DK made a puppet claiming to be a Jew.

I am a Jew and I could never advocate Genocide. No Jew I know could. Only forum puppets can.

Honey, you're a text book example of a punk-bitch. You might do all right in the military where you've got armor and guns and people smarter than you to tell you where to stand and where to point your weapon, but I am confident you'd be a passed-around girlfriend for the drug-gangs in a real US maximum-security prison. And you wouldn't do much better on the outside, either. The best a lapdog like you could hope for would be to end up as a burnt-out mule for some meth outfit. You'd die, used-up and old before your time, face down in your own vomit, like all the rest.

Why do I think this? Because you have no integrity. You have no sense of self, let alone self-respect. Over and over I see it with you, the way you suck up to authority -- all that worshipping and licking, it's disgusting -- the way you demonize outsiders and volunteer with a hearty "Ja wohl, Mein Fuhrer!" to commit atrocious crimes -- and for what? For nothing, nothing at all but an empty promise that YOU'll survive, YOU won't die, YOU won't get hurt by the people you're so damned afraid of. You are driven into hell by your crippling fear of every shadow. The temptation is almost overwhelming to play with it, to see how low you'll go, how much you will debase and degrade yourself to have some authority figure promise to take care of you.

We all know you'd gladly electrocute the balls of a helpless prisoner, but the joke is that people like you would electrocute their own balls if Daddy told them to, just to keep Daddy smiling at them.

And the funniest part is, eventually, that's exactly how people like you end up -- suffering the torments you set up for others.

I'll take this one to the women's defensive firearm course I teach.

They'll think you're pretty stupid.

Wow way to take a quote from War and peace and distort it viciously. Besides rape is usually about power not love or lust. Come on people use some common sense and work within the context of the current discussion.
I think rape is often about lust. Some men use violence to get what they want. Money, for example. Why should it come as a shock that some men will use violence to get sex?

I am simply using hyperbole in disagreeing with the assessment that "all is fair in love and war".

No, not all is fair. Genocide isn't fair, even if it's war.

Although I do agree that one should take every step to make an enemy incapable of fighting back in war, I do agree that Genocide is above and beyond wrong. Taking out entire civilizations and cultures and knowledges for a momentary conflict in a small amount of history, is one of the worst things humanity could do.

Keru doesn't understand the idea that most of them want us dead. He himself would be killed as an apostate in many of the places I've talked about.

And that is why Keru, and others, must be protected. At times they are correct when they urge restraint and diplomacy, but at other times direct action, no matter how distasteful, is the only way to go.

Perfectly legal under the rules of war.

"Legal" doesn't mean "right".

Grow a sense of morals, man.

DK claims he shot fleeing men in the back. That is unjustifiable and intolerable.
No, he shot fleeing ENEMIES in the back. Technically they were men, but in a situation like war one cannot afford to see them as fellow humans.

"Legal" doesn't mean "right".

Grow a sense of morals, man.

Lost mine permanently when I was shot at.

Lost mine permanently when I saw women beaten by husbands and not protected by police or the courts.

Self-defense is your own responsibility, and your personal survival trumps the survival of anyone else.

Nice to see DK made a puppet claiming to be a Jew.

I am a Jew and I could never advocate Genocide. No Jew I know could. Only forum puppets can.


Do you have any evidence that Deep Kimchi created this "forum puppet" If Dk did that is very sad and pathetic, but if DK did not and this is a real forum account, then your generalization is very sad. People are individuals and dispite religious or ethinic ideals can carry many different ideas.

Self-defense is your own responsibility, and your personal survival trumps the survival of anyone else.

Absolute and utter horse-shit. If your personal survival trumped the survival of everyone else, no firemen would have died at the WTC on 9/11.

You are a coward.

Nice to see DK made a puppet claiming to be a Jew.

I am a Jew and I could never advocate Genocide. No Jew I know could. Only forum puppets can.

*chuckle* I left the USSR as a religious refugee--so yeah, something tells me I suffered more for religion then probably you (no offense).

But I will be happy to be hated by you, and others like you, if I know I can protect you and make sure you can call me names and disagree with my views. Because without people like me, it is conceivable that you wouldn't have that voice, that freedom, or that life to do so.

Do you have any evidence that Deep Kimchi created this "forum puppet" If Dk did that is very sad and pathetic, but if DK did not and this is a real forum account, then your generalization is very sad. People are individuals and dispite religious or ethinic ideals can carry many different ideas.
Actually, I was a Jew during my first marriage. Did my conversion at Ohr Kodesh, in Chevy Chase, Maryland.

Never did the puppet thing though.

Do you have any evidence that Deep Kimchi created this "forum puppet" If Dk did that is very sad and pathetic, but if DK did not and this is a real forum account, then your generalization is very sad. People are individuals and dispite religious or ethinic ideals can carry many different ideas.
It's a Jew advocating genocide. That's like an atheist advocating the teaching of YEC in schools, or a scientologist advocating being smart.

*chuckle* I left the USSR as a religious refugee--so yeah, something tells me I suffered more for religion then probably you (no offense).

But I will be happy to be hated by you, and others like you, if I know I can protect you and make sure you can call me names and disagree with my views. Because without people like me, it is conceivable that you wouldn't have that voice, that freedom, or that life to do so.


I am curious what have you done to help secure our freedoms? I am not trying to be an antagonist, I am really curious.

Do you have any evidence that Deep Kimchi created this "forum puppet"

No, but I find it rather odd that a first post came into a thread without a title saying anything about genocide in direct response to something I said, which cannot be read from the Nation home page.

It's just .... strangely coincidental.

Absolute and utter horse-shit. If your personal survival trumped the survival of everyone else, no firemen would have died at the WTC on 9/11.

You are a coward.

So, you're saying I should have walked up to the Iraqi soldiers and let them shoot me at close range?

You're completely stupid.

If the enemy wants to commit genocide (and has clearly announced their intentions to do so as soon as they obtain the necessary materials), then you need to do them first.

Period.

It's a Jew advocating genocide. That's like an atheist advocating the teaching of YEC in schools, or a scientologist advocating being smart.


It may be anti sterotypical but does the possibility not exist?

It's a Jew advocating genocide. That's like an atheist advocating the teaching of YEC in schools, or a scientologist advocating being smart.

If I am a puppet, so be it. Hmm....don't feel any strings. Maybe you believe that I am puppet because I am not cursing but attempting to use proper language while not making ad hominim attacks. If that is what gave me away as a puppet, then that's sad.

I would start with places like Yemen, Palestine, Syria, Pakistan, and Iran.

Work my way out as necessary.

Also round up every Muslim and Arab in the West, and put them in camps until it is determined what to do with them.

Why are you calling for the murder of Dave Chappelle?

Absolute and utter horse-shit. If your personal survival trumped the survival of everyone else, no firemen would have died at the WTC on 9/11.

You are a coward.
Different situation. The firemen died in an attempt to save members of their own group. Fellow New Yorkers, fellow Americans. If the building was full of Al Qaeda members I'm sure nobody would have made any effort to save them.

No, but I find it rather odd that a first post came into a thread without a title saying anything about genocide in direct response to something I said, which cannot be read from the Nation home page.

It's just .... strangely coincidental.


Ok I really was jsut curious I am new to the forums, so I didn;t know if there was a way to check or not.

It may be anti sterotypical but does the possibility not exist?
Well, it could happen, but I prefer to think that people are slightly more intelligent than a turnip.

Why are you calling for the murder of Dave Chappelle?

*rolls eyes*

It is amazing the level of Ad Hominums being used in this forum. I understand this thread is highly emotional, but can we try to come back to a civilized conversation without name calling. Name calling and using vulgar language makes you sound as intellegent as a person advocating genocide.
The man advocates and tries to justify advocating genocide. Genocide is an actual crime under both US and international law. There are three possible responses to a thread in which crimes are advocated: Shut down the thread; ignore it; or denounce the speaker and then leave or shut down the thread.

This is important enough that I want DK and everyone else who reads this to understand very, very clearly that he is putting himself into the same camp as people like Zarqawi, and what kind of reaction such statements will always, always get, here and in the real world.

And when I have made my points and recorded them here (for future use), I will leave this thread and hope it gets locked very soon.

Why are you calling for the murder of Dave Chappelle?
And Keru, for that matter.

The man advocates and tries to justify advocating genocide. Genocide is an actual crime under both US and international law. There are three possible responses to a thread in which crimes are advocated: Shut down the thread; ignore it; or denounce the speaker and then leave or shut down the thread.

This is important enough that I want DK and everyone else who reads this to understand very, very clearly that he is putting himself into the same camp as people like Zarqawi, and what kind of reaction such statements will always, always get, here and in the real world.

And when I have made my points and recorded them here (for future use), I will leave this thread and hope it gets locked very soon.


I've had this exact discussion before, about six months ago - and NO ONE locked it, and NO ONE was able to point out anything in it that violated the TOS.

If the enemy wants to commit genocide

You've already established that you have no clue who the enemy is.

You have stated, with absolute clarity, that you believe all Muslims - all of them - to be the enemy.

No, I'm not copping out. See, people are wired to extend sympathy and human rights to those within their group. In a hunter/gatherer band, the members of another band might be seen as enemies and potential food sources, but those within the band are accorded protection. Since Tim was an American, he's within my tribe. It's much harder for me to dehumanize him. Since I don't recognize Saudi Arabians or Yemeni as members of my group, it's much easier for me to flip the internal switch and see them as an enemy to be exterminated.
Murderers and terrorists are not members of my tribe. I guess my tribe has higher standards than yours.

*rolls eyes*
What, can't face the fact that killing all Muslims would target innocents? How sad.

I am curious what have you done to help secure our freedoms? I am not trying to be an antagonist, I am really curious.

THat's a fair question.

I first attempted to see if I would be able to serve--I did ROTC (play army) for 6 months and found myself completely unsuitable because I have a hard time taking orders. After that I've donated my time and resources in may revitalization projects in the city and offered translating services to many jewish organizations (I speak russian). I am currently completing law school and might still end up going into the army but as JAG.

I have a strong desire to give back to my adopted country and I was very ashamed when I saw I couldn't serve--but at least I tried.

You've already established that you have no clue who the enemy is.

You have stated, with absolute clarity, that you believe all Muslims - all of them - to be the enemy.

Answer this - if all Muslims were dead, would all Islamic terrorism end?

Yes.

I've had this exact discussion before, about six months ago - and NO ONE locked it, and NO ONE was able to point out anything in it that violated the TOS.
Well, it can be reasonably interpreted as a death threat against the Muslims on the forum.

What, can't face the fact that killing all Muslims would target innocents? How sad.
Nope. But, if you ACTUALLY read my idea on how to do it, you would realize that Dave Chappelle would merely be permanently sterilized by a tailored biological - not killed by gun or bomb.

"Legal" doesn't mean "right".

Grow a sense of morals, man.

The people your arguing with have withdrawn from moral discourse, perhaps you should appeal to hypothetical imperatives instead.

Different situation. The firemen died in an attempt to save members of their own group. Fellow New Yorkers, fellow Americans. If the building was full of Al Qaeda members I'm sure nobody would have made any effort to save them.

If you think only Americans died at the WTC, you're sadly mistaken.

Why do battlefield doctors treat enemy soldiers? Why did the events of December 25, 1914 occur?

I disagree with your assessment of humanity.

Answer this - if all Muslims were dead, would all Islamic terrorism end?

Yes.
Answer this - if all non-fundamentalist Muslims were dead, would all Islamic terrorism end?

Yes.

Cuts both ways.

Well, it can be reasonably interpreted as a death threat against the Muslims on the forum.
Hardly. It isn't as though I personally am doing it.

It would be a government action.

And if you READ the thread, you'll find the idea is not to kill them directly, but to permanently sterilize them through a genetically engineered virus or microbe.

Answer this - if all Muslims were dead, would all Islamic terrorism end?


No. It would simply change form.

I'll take this one to the women's defensive firearm course I teach.

They'll think you're pretty stupid.

gonna tell them about the context of all the retarded fascist sychophantic bullshit you say too?

Well, it can be reasonably interpreted as a death threat against the Muslims on the forum.
I would add that there have been several death threats made by OTHER posters in this thread. Very direct ones.

Nope. But, if you ACTUALLY read my idea on how to do it, you would realize that Dave Chappelle would merely be permanently sterilized by a tailored biological - not killed by gun or bomb.

Yeah ... Eugenics ... way to go.

Nope. But, if you ACTUALLY read my idea on how to do it, you would realize that Dave Chappelle would merely be permanently sterilized by a tailored biological - not killed by gun or bomb.
Right, because Muslims are different from everyone else. Who else used that logic? I think his name had an "H" in it somewhere. Hmmm....

Different situation. The firemen died in an attempt to save members of their own group. Fellow New Yorkers, fellow Americans. If the building was full of Al Qaeda members I'm sure nobody would have made any effort to save them.

Hoist by your own pertard...

Earlier, you said:

"Since I don't recognize Saudi Arabians or Yemeni as members of my group, it's much easier for me to flip the internal switch and see them as an enemy to be exterminated."

Now you say:

"If the building was full of Al Qaeda members I'm sure nobody would have made any effort to save them".


Either:

1) You are arguing that there was not a single Saudi or Yemin in the WTC, AND the firefighters KNEW this, or

2) You are arguing that ALL Saudi Arabians and Yemenis MUST be members of a terrorist organisation.


You are either preaching a form of 'nationalistic unity' which exists only in the abstract, or you are preaching that all Middle-East citizens are effectively terrorists. Either way - it sounds like you'd have left anyone with a darkskin to die in the WTC.


I wonder how you are going to wriggle out of this...

The man advocates and tries to justify advocating genocide. Genocide is an actual crime under both US and international law. There are three possible responses to a thread in which crimes are advocated: Shut down the thread; ignore it; or denounce the speaker and then leave or shut down the thread.

This is important enough that I want DK and everyone else who reads this to understand very, very clearly that he is putting himself into the same camp as people like Zarqawi, and what kind of reaction such statements will always, always get, here and in the real world.

And when I have made my points and recorded them here (for future use), I will leave this thread and hope it gets locked very soon.


THank you for denoucing DK, and also thank you for doing so in a intellegent manner.

gonna tell them about the context of all the retarded fascist sychophantic bullshit you say too?
They already know it.

They carry guns because they were tired of being beated by their ex-husbands. Tired of being stalked. Tired of having the police not help them, even with a protective order. Tired of having the courts lift the protective orders, only to have the abuse resume.

They carry guns now. They come first - before their ex-husbands.

Got it?

Right, because Muslims are different from everyone else. Who else used that logic? I think his name had an "H" in it somewhere. Hmmm....

It's ok to say it, the thread's already been Godwin'd.

Hardly. It isn't as though I personally am doing it.

It would be a government action.

which makes it all better, doesn't it? fuck off and die, nazi scum.

I would add that there have been several death threats made by OTHER posters in this thread. Very direct ones.
And that was wrong as well. Unlike you, I don't group the world into your inane, childish, "Us vs. THem" mentality.

Yeah ... Eugenics ... way to go.
Not eugenics.

Virally induced sterility.

which makes it all better, doesn't it? fuck off and die, nazi scum.
How is that "Nazi?"

Or don't you believe that Realpolitik governs the actions of nations?

Not eugenics.

Virally induced sterility.
Which is eugenics.

Not eugenics.

Virally induced sterility.

Of a genepool... hence... what's that word, begins with an "E"...

Yeah ... Eugenics ... way to go.

worse than mere eugenics - it's just plain old genocide.

Which is eugenics.
Nope. Your words, not mine.

Answer this - if all Muslims were dead, would all Islamic terrorism end?

Yes.

Religions are hard to put down. Even religions as old as Marician and Gnostics which were nearly wiped out by Rome have survived. Yes Islam would live on, not with 1 billion people but as long as even one copy of the Qu'ran survives then yes, Islam will live on. (BTW I am not advocating any book burnings, I am just stating t he facts that Islam can never be destroyed)

I'll take this one to the women's defensive firearm course I teach.

They'll think you're pretty stupid.
Go right ahead. It's just another example of your need for others to reassure you by agreeing with you. Have a good laugh with them.

worse than mere eugenics - it's just plain old genocide.
If I'm not executing people, how is it genocide in the traditional sense?

If you think only Americans died at the WTC, you're sadly mistaken.

Why do battlefield doctors treat enemy soldiers? Why did the events of December 25, 1914 occur?

I disagree with your assessment of humanity.

Because one can identify even with their enemies, DCD conception stands, this is why we can ignore foreign problems and eat animals.

*rolls eyes*

Oh sorry, did I just remind you it's real people you are calling for the deaths of, not just hypothetical, brown, funny-talking savages?

And Keru, for that matter.

I thought he went apostate?

Answer this - if all Muslims were dead, would all Islamic terrorism end?

Yes.

I can't believe I just read that. It makes me sick to my stomach that anyone would advocate genocide. This line of thinking is evil, pure and simple, and I'm not one to use that word lightly.

I would add that there have been several death threats made by OTHER posters in this thread. Very direct ones.

Can u quote them? I have seemed to have either misread them or not seen them.

I thought he went apostate?
I must have missed that.

Go right ahead. It's just another example of your need for others to reassure you by agreeing with you. Have a good laugh with them.
I'll also tell them of your point of view that people should wait until they are beaten before reacting, and that their reaction should be made only through the courts instead of by wielding a pistol.

That kind of attitude kills women in the US every day.

None of the women (over 200 now) in my class have died, been beaten, or had a repeat stalking since acquiring their pistols.

Sure, they'll laugh at you.

Answer this - if all Muslims were dead, would all Islamic terrorism end?

Yes.

Your oversimplification can be applied equally to any ethnic or religious group. If all Christians were dead, all Christian terrorism would end, if all Buddhists or Hindus were dead, etc etc.

And of course there is that one little thing everyone loves to overlook. Islam is at its root an Abrahamic religion just like Christianity and Judaism. You can try to kill all the people in the world you want, but oppression is a very strong bond. If the Jews could get together after someone tried to wipe them out systematically, then a billion plus Muslims can do the same all across the world.

On top of which, if the United States were stupid enough to listen to you and try for a Muslim Holocaust, what little global esteem and respect for the United States was left after Bush shredded it would be completely gone. And that will mean bad things. The US military presence is overextended and spread thin as it is. And the US is no longer economically self-sufficient like it used to be. We're still dependent mostly on foreign oil and do you want to divert the military reserves just to fill in the gaps in the economy that a global embargo would create?

The only upside to this is that you're a nobody when it comes to the United States government. Otherwise 2012 would be starting way ahead of schedule.

Nope. Your words, not mine.
HAY GUYZ I CANT UNDERSTAND DEFINITIONS AND SYNONYMS LOL!

I thought he went apostate?

Yeah I did.

Good thing, too. I would hate to have to live in fear of DK's internet wrath and wannabe warrior attitude.

Because one can identify even with their enemies, DCD conception stands, this is why we can ignore foreign problems and eat animals.
One might well ask why US soldiers committed orders of magnitude more atrocities against Japanese soldiers during WW II than against German soldiers.

John Keegan says it was because the Germans were "more like" us. And it made it easier to sympathize with them.

If they are very different - not only in appearance, but in complete world view - they are easy to kill with no remorse.

None of the women (over 200 now) in my class have died, been beaten, or had a repeat stalking since acquiring their pistols.


I have this rock that keeps away bears ....

I would start with places like Yemen, Palestine, Syria, Pakistan, and Iran.

Work my way out as necessary.

Also round up every Muslim and Arab in the West, and put them in camps until it is determined what to do with them.
My fiance's Muslim. No really practicing, but she came from Iran when she was a little girl with her family as they fled the revolution.

One might well ask why US soldiers committed orders of magnitude more atrocities against Japanese soldiers during WW II than against German soldiers.

John Keegan says it was because the Germans were "more like" us. And it made it easier to sympathize with them.

If they are very different - not only in appearance, but in complete world view - they are easy to kill with no remorse.
..........

..........

..........

I've got nothing.

Yeah I did.

Good thing, too. I would hate to have to live in fear of DK's internet wrath and wannabe warrior attitude.
What Internet wrath? And how am I a wannabe?

If I'm not executing people, how is it genocide in the traditional sense?

Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide

Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Lost mine permanently when I was shot at.

Lost mine permanently when I saw women beaten by husbands and not protected by police or the courts.

Self-defense is your own responsibility, and your personal survival trumps the survival of anyone else.
You can't lose what you never had, DK. If you're so right and normal and all, how come I know long-term career cops and soldiers who have not turned into raving pro-genocide nuts after facing enemy fire? I know 30-year veterans of the NYPD. I grew up around hardcore combat veterans from WW2 (Pacific & Europe), Korea and Vietnam -- many are old-school "Greatest Generation" American bigots -- but not one of them would have any different opinion of you than I do. They're the ones I learned my ethics from.

One might well ask why US soldiers committed orders of magnitude more atrocities against Japanese soldiers during WW II than against German soldiers.

John Keegan says it was because the Germans were "more like" us. And it made it easier to sympathize with them.

If they are very different - not only in appearance, but in complete world view - they are easy to kill with no remorse.

It is unfortunate aspect of humanity, but it is seemingly true especailly of our culture. Very sad and unfortuante.

One might well ask why US soldiers committed orders of magnitude more atrocities against Japanese soldiers during WW II than against German soldiers.

John Keegan says it was because the Germans were "more like" us. And it made it easier to sympathize with them.

If they are very different - not only in appearance, but in complete world view - they are easy to kill with no remorse.

I agree, doesn’t mean we want that, its merely a fact.

I agree, doesn’t mean we want that, its merely a fact.
DK wants that.

What Internet wrath? And how am I a wannabe?

Your desired genocide against Muslims is the wrath. Fortunately, it's confined to the internet because you're too much of a coward to go shoot Habib at your local 7-11 and actually *act* on your beliefs.

That makes you a wannabe.

Also, the sudden realisation that while you may be able to defend yourself, you wouldn't be able to feed yourself if we lived in a hunter/gatherer society and, thus, would die.

You're pathetic.

Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide

Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.


Technically, killing one Iraqi soldier is (a) killing members of the group.

And who enforces this? Has it been successfully enforced?

Rwanda? Darfur?

Nope. It's toothless and meaningless.

DK may I ask you a question. What means other than massive genocide is there for you to end the war on terror. In your opinion is there any other option to winning the war on terror besides the purposeful and direct annihilation of another culture and ideology?

*chuckle* I left the USSR as a religious refugee--so yeah, something tells me I suffered more for religion then probably you (no offense).

But I will be happy to be hated by you, and others like you, if I know I can protect you and make sure you can call me names and disagree with my views. Because without people like me, it is conceivable that you wouldn't have that voice, that freedom, or that life to do so.
Do me a favor. Stay away from me and my freedoms. As far as I'm concerned, I have them inspite of you, not because of you.

It is unfortunate aspect of humanity, but it is seemingly true especailly of our culture. Very sad and unfortuante.
It's no truer of our culture than of any other.

Your desired genocide against Muslims is the wrath. Fortunately, it's confined to the internet because you're too much of a coward to go shoot Habib at your local 7-11 and actually *act* on your beliefs.


It's a matter of Realpolitik, not one of "wrath" or emotion.
Also, the sudden realisation that while you may be able to defend yourself, you wouldn't be able to feed yourself if we lived in a hunter/gatherer society and, thus, would die.

Funny, I've been hunting for years successfully. And am quite good at growing a variety of crops using organic methods.

How would I not be able to feed myself? What bullshit.

Your desired genocide against Muslims is the wrath. Fortunately, it's confined to the internet because you're too much of a coward to go shoot Habib at your local 7-11 and actually *act* on your beliefs.

That makes you a wannabe.

Also, the sudden realisation that while you may be able to defend yourself, you wouldn't be able to feed yourself if we lived in a hunter/gatherer society and, thus, would die.

You're pathetic.

Please do not egg someone on to commit acts of violence against innocent people. I understand your point but what you typed here could be misunderstood as a challenge to live up to those standards and someone could lose their life. Please do not challenge people that want genocide into action. Let them vent online where it is harmless and do nothing else in reality.

Your desired genocide against Muslims is the wrath. Fortunately, it's confined to the internet because you're too much of a coward to go shoot Habib at your local 7-11 and actually *act* on your beliefs.
That was pretty racist.

Just sayin'.

DK wants that.

But most do not, so were safe, for now.

That was pretty racist.

Just sayin'.

Racist no, complete lack of judgment because of emotional stimulis Yes.

Different situation. The firemen died in an attempt to save members of their own group. Fellow New Yorkers, fellow Americans. If the building was full of Al Qaeda members I'm sure nobody would have made any effort to save them.
A statement from ignorance. It was the WORLD Trade Center. Over 28 countries lost citizens that day. The FDNY is not so stupid or blind that they don't know that. After all, it's New York, where you never know who you'll be saving in any given disaster. Those firemen and cops ran into those buildings because they were dedicated to saving human life, without reference to which "tribe" it belongs to. That you would try to paint them as being motivated by a bigoted concern for one group over another is an insult to their memory.

As for who they would save -- they save everyone. They save the lives of cop-killers and child molesters. They are there to save lives, not to judge them, and they are men and women of personal honor.

Do me a favor. Stay away from me and my freedoms. As far as I'm concerned, I have them inspite of you, not because of you.

*chuckle*

whatever

All I know is that I have many friends who think the way you do and in public are happy to condemn my beleifs, but in private have told me that if something goes wrong they'll be running to my house because that's where I keep the guns, the ammo, and survival packs. :sniper:

My fiance's Muslim. No really practicing, but she came from Iran when she was a little girl with her family as they fled the revolution.

And if DK and DM had their way, they'd shoot her right in front of you and maybe even shoot you for being a "race traitor/heretic/terrorist."

DK may I ask you a question. What means other than massive genocide is there for you to end the war on terror. In your opinion is there any other option to winning the war on terror besides the purposeful and direct annihilation of another culture and ideology?

Glad you asked.

1. Negotiation with people like Bin Laden is not an option. He has stated in his own writings that any negotiations or truces are merely temporary stops on the road to annihilating the West.
2. Re-educating large portions of the Salafist-influenced populations is a) a violation of the genocide law as well, because it would involve removing children from their "group" for a certain period of time.
3. Giving them what they demand - such as leaving the Middle East, would only encourage more demands. And, as Osama has written, once again that's only a temporary stop until they destroy the West.
4. BTW, "The West" includes Europe.
5. Low-intensity conflict seems to be counterproductive and slow - and is also criticized by the very same people who criticize the sterilization plan.
6. Number 2 is probably the most "humane" option, but as I said, it's a violation of the genocide law as well.

Please do not egg someone on to commit acts of violence against innocent people.

As much as I would hate for it to happen, if DK actually acted on his beliefs, his time in prison with some angry, large, black Muslims would be enough to bring balance back to the universe.

The prison sentence would prove to him that we don't all think like him. What they'll do to him there (and I would make damn sure some Muslims would know who he is and how he thinks) will fulfill karma.

I've had this exact discussion before, about six months ago - and NO ONE locked it, and NO ONE was able to point out anything in it that violated the TOS.
Well, I guess it will keep going then, won't it. Good thing you enjoy taking verbal abuse from many fronts at once.

Glad you asked.

1. Negotiation with people like Bin Laden is not an option. He has stated in his own writings that any negotiations or truces are merely temporary stops on the road to annihilating the West.
2. Re-educating large portions of the Salafist-influenced populations is a) a violation of the genocide law as well, because it would involve removing children from their "group" for a certain period of time.
3. Giving them what they demand - such as leaving the Middle East, would only encourage more demands. And, as Osama has written, once again that's only a temporary stop until they destroy the West.
4. BTW, "The West" includes Europe.
5. Low-intensity conflict seems to be counterproductive and slow - and is also criticized by the very same people who criticize the sterilization plan.
6. Number 2 is probably the most "humane" option, but as I said, it's a violation of the genocide law as well.

Lol ok, will the only plan I could see besides genocide is to re-educate the populis. AM I understanding you correctly or did I misunderstand? I just want clarity so I can discuss this on an informed basis

That was pretty racist.

Just sayin'.

Not really. Merely waging this battle on the principle of "Know Thy Enemy". You can't argue against a Creationist using science, you must use the Bible. Likewise, you cannot defeat a racist using rationality or logic.

Keruvalia - Your thinking is plain wrong. What if these large, angry, black muslims killed him? Are you advocating murder? Or, worse, insighting racial hatred?!

So, you're saying I should have walked up to the Iraqi soldiers and let them shoot me at close range?

You're completely stupid.

If the enemy wants to commit genocide (and has clearly announced their intentions to do so as soon as they obtain the necessary materials), then you need to do them first.

Period.

If you do indeed believe that personal survival trumps all else then why on earth did you decide to join the army?

As much as I would hate for it to happen, if DK actually acted on his beliefs, his time in prison with some angry, large, black Muslims would be enough to bring balance back to the universe.

The prison sentence would prove to him that we don't all think like him. What they'll do to him there (and I would make damn sure some Muslims would know who he is and how he thinks) will fulfill karma.

But to advocate such violence and have a innocent person harmed seems to be completly contridictory to your arguements and beliefs that you have stated on this forum. Besides would you want to be indirectly responsible for the injury/death of a innocent person?

If you do indeed believe that personal survival trumps all else then why on earth did you decide to join the army?
Duh. He wanted to kill them "sand niggers".

Not really. Merely waging this battle on the principle of "Know Thy Enemy". You can't argue against a Creationist using science, you must use the Bible. Likewise, you cannot defeat a racist using rationality or logic.

Actually you can, you msut jsut a) make people not fel threathened or on the defensive.
B) use language and have a clarity of the situation to be able to communicate properly.
C) Find some common ground and work from there to help persuade.

How do you think Diplomats do it?

Keruvalia - Your thinking is plain wrong. What if these large, angry, black muslims killed him? Are you advocating murder? Or, worse, insighting racial hatred?!

No, I am advocating nothing. I am using hyperbole and possibilities, not advocation.

We must attach a very large "IF" to some of the things I've said in this thread.

But to advocate such violence and have a innocent person harmed seems to be completly contridictory to your arguements and beliefs that you have stated on this forum. Besides would you want to be indirectly responsible for the injury/death of a innocent person?
I wouldn't call psychopaths "innocent".

No, I am advocating nothing. I am using hyperbole and possibilities, not advocation.

We must attach a very large "IF" to some of the things I've said in this thread.

I understand, but can you see how the original statement could be misinterrupted as you might as well do it.... ?

I wouldn't call psychopaths "innocent".


Neither would I butin the orginal statement she told DK that he/she should act on their beliefs and shoot a 7-11 clerk (in a hypothetical situation). THat clerk would be innocent

I understand, but can you see how the original statement could be misinterrupted as you might as well do it.... ?

'Tis possible, I suppose, but knowing what a coward he is, it would never happen.

Duh. He wanted to kill them "sand niggers".
As I pointed out before, I don't call them names like you do.

'Tis possible, I suppose, but knowing what a coward he is, it would never happen.

Again please Stop the egging on. Calling someone out can have disasterous consequences. Besides do you really know fora fact. 100 % certainty?

THat clerk would be innocent

Yes, and I would hate for that to happen. It won't. DK is too much of a coward to practice what he preaches. He shoots men in the back and teaches women to hide behind a gun. I'm surprised he even knows how to breathe, much less type.

As I pointed out before, I don't call them names like you do.
Oh, right. You hate them so much you think that ever referring to them by a slur would sully your perfect little mouth.

Lol ok, will the only plan I could see besides genocide is to re-educate the populis. AM I understanding you correctly or did I misunderstand? I just want clarity so I can discuss this on an informed basis

Yes. The problem with re-education is that it requires conquering their nation through conventional means.

Which involves a more direct, violent approach which would be counterproductive.

Think about it this way. I am thinking about solutions from the perspective of what may or may not be truly effective. Not clouding the issue with delusions of morality.

Yes, and I would hate for that to happen. It won't. DK is too much of a coward to practice what he preaches. He shoots men in the back and teaches women to hide behind a gun. I'm surprised he even knows how to breathe, much less type.

Sigh...

Besides do you really know fora fact. 100 % certainty?

I'd put money on it.

Yes, and I would hate for that to happen. It won't. DK is too much of a coward to practice what he preaches. He shoots men in the back and teaches women to hide behind a gun. I'm surprised he even knows how to breathe, much less type.

Yes, you would rather that the women be beaten, raped, and killed, right? You don't want them to defend themselves.

Yes, you would rather that the women be beaten, raped, and killed, right? You don't want them to defend themselves.

Once again, I have this rock that keeps away bears ....

Sigh...

Ok ok ok ... I'll stop.

Answer this - if all Muslims were dead, would all Islamic terrorism end?

Yes.
If all warmongering cowards were abducted by aliens, would we no longer have to listen to your BS?

Yes.

So what?

If all warmongering cowards were abducted by aliens, would we no longer have to listen to your BS?


rofl

Incidently, I think DK plays too much Halo.

Yes. The problem with re-education is that it requires conquering their nation through conventional means.

Which involves a more direct, violent approach which would be counterproductive.

Think about it this way. I am thinking about solutions from the perspective of what may or may not be truly effective. Not clouding the issue with delusions of morality.

Ok, lets look at it like this your end result you want is a end of Militant islam, to secure western culture. Is genocide really the most effective method of doing this? What other solutions are there? the re-education idea might work however you have to enforce every child attend school and that wil luse up billions of dollars in resources alone. Massive Genocide should not be an answer cause of the complete destrction of a culture a) and B the dust cloud from the nukes could potentially block out the sun for years thus nearly ellimating everyone. Is there a simpler solution to you DK?

That was pretty racist.

Just sayin'.
Well, my fiance's dad is not named habib and he is a physicist, not a 7-11 clerck.


He's also an opium addict.

rofl

Incidently, I think DK plays too much Halo.
Never played Halo, sorry.

Never played Halo, sorry.

Mmm hmm ... ok so Call of Duty, then. Whatever brand of fantasy is required to live in your world.

Once again, I have this rock that keeps away bears ....
Doesn't work for small women who weigh 100 pounds less than their husbands.

Sure, I'm able to go hand to hand with them (and I have), but the gun is far easier, and involves less mess.

I've never had to fire at them - it induces good manners by its presence.

If you wish to persuade someone to a alternate point of view, attacking their moral fibre, their virtue or their ideology, thus forcing them on the defensive causesyour ultimate goal to fail. Work with the person not against them, and you will get farther.

Mmm hmm ... ok so Call of Duty, then. Whatever brand of fantasy is required to live in your world.
Nope, don't play video games. I prefer real life.

THank you for denoucing DK, and also thank you for doing so in a intellegent manner.
Why, thank you. I always strive to express myself clearly, and I never pass up an opportunity to denounce people like DK. :)

Well, my fiance's dad is not named habib and he is a physicist, not a 7-11 clerck.

When dealing with a person of DK's mentality, you can't mention the fact that "them Ay-rab types" can be anything but terrorists, cab drivers, or convenience store clerks. If you try to tell them that they can be a physicist, you lose your audience.

If you wish to persuade someone to a alternate point of view, attacking their moral fibre, their virtue or their ideology, thus forcing them on the defensive causesyour ultimate goal to fail. Work with the person not against them, and you will get farther.
Salafists don't want that. Won't permit it.

I'm not talking about nuking them all (although that is certainly an option, but not a good one).

I'm talking about sterilizing them all in a single week against their will.

Lol, I did nto mean a personal denouncement of DK, I am jsut opposed to the idea of genocide. But I do appreciate your candor.

Doesn't work for small women who weigh 100 pounds less than their husbands.

If you say it, it must be true.

Now, about this rock of mine ...

When dealing with a person of DK's mentality, you can't mention the fact that "them Ay-rab types" can be anything but terrorists, cab drivers, or convenience store clerks. If you try to tell them that they can be a physicist, you lose your audience.
They had such a hard time with physics that the Chinese had to design the nuclear weapon for Dr. Khan in Pakistan.

Something the typical physics undergrad in the West can do with pencil and paper.

Wonder what their problem was - Dr. Khan is their best and brightest.

Lol, I did nto mean a personal denouncement of DK, I am jsut opposed to the idea of genocide. But I do appreciate your candor.
It's ok - if it wasn't for completely amoral people like me, Muryavets would have no idea how to vent.

Salafists don't want that. Won't permit it.

I'm not talking about nuking them all (although that is certainly an option, but not a good one).

I'm talking about sterilizing them all in a single week against their will.


Ok how would you do that? I mean rounding up everyone holding them agianst their will and forcing them into a procedure that would be against the "will of Allah"? How could this be done? Also how would you be able to produce enough chemicals to enduce 1 billion people?

Nope, don't play video games. I prefer real life.

Riiiight .... I'll just gently pat you on the head, smirk at your computer, and leave you to your insanity.

Glad you asked.

1. Negotiation with people like Bin Laden is not an option. He has stated in his own writings that any negotiations or truces are merely temporary stops on the road to annihilating the West.
2. Re-educating large portions of the Salafist-influenced populations is a) a violation of the genocide law as well, because it would involve removing children from their "group" for a certain period of time.
3. Giving them what they demand - such as leaving the Middle East, would only encourage more demands. And, as Osama has written, once again that's only a temporary stop until they destroy the West.
4. BTW, "The West" includes Europe.
5. Low-intensity conflict seems to be counterproductive and slow - and is also criticized by the very same people who criticize the sterilization plan.
6. Number 2 is probably the most "humane" option, but as I said, it's a violation of the genocide law as well.

DK, all of your points are accurate, but I can't agree with mass-sterilization as a conclusion.. I think you overestimate the potency of Islam and Islamists and underestimate the power of Western culture and commerce, which I believe is the long-term antedote. We've managed to increase our holdings and influence in the Middle-east recently, and are injecting our culture and style of government on a kind of slow, IV-drip. I think Islam can be dealt with the way we have dealt with the Chinese in the last 30 years.. physically culling the population back to a less threatening level is something that may be done as a reaction to another terrorist attack, but I think it would be counterproductive.

I've never had to fire at them - it induces good manners by its presence.

Incidently, humans have to sleep sometime. A gun is not necessary. A brick will do.

Ok how would you do that? I mean rounding up everyone holding them agianst their will and forcing them into a procedure that would be against the "will of Allah"? How could this be done?

It's not a procedure.

There have been suggestions of experimental virii that do not kill their victims, but render them sterile.

The victim in question may at most have a slight cold for a few days - nothing to raise any alarms. And by the time people realize what is going on, it's already over.

Both the US and China have been rumored to be working on such a virus. I wonder why.

How is that "Nazi?"

Or don't you believe that Realpolitik governs the actions of nations?
It's "Nazi" because that's how the Nazis operated, but they found out that "I was just following orders" was no defense, and you'll find it out, too, if you get your way in killing all the people you fear.

Of course, I'm here to prevent you from getting your way, and by extension, prevent you getting hanged like the Nazi war criminals. So you see, I'm your best friend -- at least, the best someone like you could hope for. Pray for your own defeat, DK, because your success would destroy you.

Incidently, humans have to sleep sometime. A gun is not necessary. A brick will do.
Nope, a brick will not do, especially against multiple attackers.

They had such a hard time with physics that the Chinese had to design the nuclear weapon for Dr. Khan in Pakistan.

Something the typical physics undergrad in the West can do with pencil and paper.

Wonder what their problem was - Dr. Khan is their best and brightest.

You've been reading too many of Ny Nordlands threads, my friend...

Now you've moved on from your own personal jihad and middle-east genocide platform, to the intellectual inferiority of the darker skins?

It's not a procedure.

There have been suggestions of experimental virii that do not kill their victims, but render them sterile.

The victim in question may at most have a slight cold for a few days - nothing to raise any alarms. And by the time people realize what is going on, it's already over.

Both the US and China have been rumored to be working on such a virus. I wonder why.

You do relize that if such a virus existed that with modern travel methods not to mention winds, animals etc. that the virus could potentiall spread to other areas. This could indeed endanger the entire planet.

Nope, a brick will not do, especially against multiple attackers.

These women have multiple husbands?

Once again, it all breaks down in sleep. If a man truly wants to get to a woman, he will, gun or not. What you give these women is false confidence based on a rock that keeps away bears.

You're hurting them more than helping them.

Nope, a brick will not do, especially against multiple attackers.
Sleeping people do not attack.

It's not a procedure.

There have been suggestions of experimental virii that do not kill their victims, but render them sterile.

The victim in question may at most have a slight cold for a few days - nothing to raise any alarms. And by the time people realize what is going on, it's already over.

Both the US and China have been rumored to be working on such a virus. I wonder why.

Ah well, if you've got RUMOURS to back up your claims, I guess the argument's over...

You might want to think about the fact that viral agents have an unfortunate tendency to mutate...

If I'm not executing people, how is it genocide in the traditional sense?
And now you're trying to weasel out of resposibility by finessing definitions? What a pathetic lack of balls.

You do relize that if such a virus existed that with modern travel methods not to mention winds, animals etc. that the virus could potentiall spread to other areas. This could indeed endanger the entire planet.

DK believes Muslims to be genetically different than other humans.

It's "Nazi" because that's how the Nazis operated, but they found out that "I was just following orders" was no defense, and you'll find it out, too, if you get your way in killing all the people you fear.

Of course, I'm here to prevent you from getting your way, and by extension, prevent you getting hanged like the Nazi war criminals. So you see, I'm your best friend -- at least, the best someone like you could hope for. Pray for your own defeat, DK, because your success would destroy you.


Although I am against his idea might i ask how do you intend to fight a person that is anonomyous over the internet that you have never met? Or what would you do to prevent him/her or someone like them from carrying out such an task?

It's "Nazi" because that's how the Nazis operated, but they found out that "I was just following orders" was no defense, and you'll find it out, too, if you get your way in killing all the people you fear.

Of course, I'm here to prevent you from getting your way, and by extension, prevent you getting hanged like the Nazi war criminals. So you see, I'm your best friend -- at least, the best someone like you could hope for. Pray for your own defeat, DK, because your success would destroy you.
Wasn't hung for shooting running men in the back.

Perfectly legal, because they shot at me first.

I didn't kill them because I was afraid of them - I stood there for a bit while they took shots at me. I killed them because it was permissible to do so.

DK believes Muslims to be genetically different than other humans.

I think a more accurate translation would have been "DK believes Muslims to be genetically different than... humans".

What a pathetic lack of balls.


Wow with such intellegent retorts as this, how can anyone disagree with you?

I didn't kill them because I was afraid of them - I stood there for a bit while they took shots at me. I killed them because it was permissible to do so.

I've had a gun pulled on me in anger. Know what I did? Nothing. I spoke.

I was not shot at.

Amazing.

Ah well, if you've got RUMOURS to back up your claims, I guess the argument's over...

You might want to think about the fact that viral agents have an unfortunate tendency to mutate...
I'm not claiming such a virus exists.

I'm claiming that it's possible. Making one is merely an engineering problem at this point.

I think a more accurate translation would have been "DK believes Muslims to be genetically different than... humans".

Even if that were true, which it is not, virus have an uncanny ability to mutate at a very rapid pace.

Wasn't hung for shooting running men in the back.

Perfectly legal, because they shot at me first.

I didn't kill them because I was afraid of them - I stood there for a bit while they took shots at me. I killed them because it was permissible to do so.

And, some people wonder why the military gets such a bad reputation...

Not - "I killed them because I HAD to"... or "I killed them to save innocent lives..."

No - apparently, our military runs on the theory of "I killed them because it was permissible to do so..."

Scares the shit out of me.

I might add that there are plenty of tinfoil hats who believe it's been tried before

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=AIDS_conspiracy

I've had a gun pulled on me in anger. Know what I did? Nothing. I spoke.

I was not shot at.

Amazing.

See - the problem I'm having with his story is that I have had a gun pulled on me in anger, AND a shot fired.

I didn't 'stand there' giving them their chance. I ran like you wouldn't believe, jumping a five-foot fence on my way...

No - apparently, our military runs on the theory of "I killed them because it was permissible to do so..."

Be not afraid. It is only in DK's head. I highly doubt he's ever been in the military. His attitude would've gotten him booted on a psycho discharge.

I'm not claiming such a virus exists.

I'm claiming that it's possible. Making one is merely an engineering problem at this point.

DK at this moment in time with our current technology, you do or should relize that sterilization of enitre peoples by method of a virus is not only illogical and immoral, but is also impractical. SInce this is the case what other methods are availibleto win the war on terror instead of mass neutering?

I didn't 'stand there' giving them their chance. I ran like you wouldn't believe, jumping a five-foot fence on my way...

Hehe .... oh I was prepared to run like a bunny, but there were other people in the store and *some* of us don't believe our personal defense trumps defense of others.

I'm not claiming such a virus exists.

I'm claiming that it's possible. Making one is merely an engineering problem at this point.

Not entirely an engineering problem.... part of the problem is an unfortunate overabundance of 'sanity'.

The reason we don't use biological agents in war, isn't because they are unfriendly. It is because they are entirely non-selective, and have a bad habit of killing your own people.

The reason we don't carry out 'conspiracy-theory' foreign policies like you suggest, is because mutually-assured-destruction is usually considered too high a price.

Even if that were true, which it is not, virus have an uncanny ability to mutate at a very rapid pace.
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/experiment.htm

Obviously, it's a topic of interest for the US.

Be not afraid. It is only in DK's head. I highly doubt he's ever been in the military. His attitude would've gotten him booted on a psycho discharge.

I come from a military family, my best friend is in the army, my brother in law is a navy fighterpilot. Most of our armed forces do not desireto kill individuals, from my personnal experience.

I'll also tell them of your point of view that people should wait until they are beaten before reacting, and that their reaction should be made only through the courts instead of by wielding a pistol.

That kind of attitude kills women in the US every day.

None of the women (over 200 now) in my class have died, been beaten, or had a repeat stalking since acquiring their pistols.

Sure, they'll laugh at you.
Wrong again, as usual, DK. I never said that. Go look at the thread. Quote me if I did. In fact, I dont think anyone in this thread has said anything even remotely like that. So I guess you're technically not wrong -- you are deliberately lying.

As for your little Amazon army, such shallow gestures (for which you take so much credit) cannot clean your soul of the filth you've soaked it in. I have never touched a gun in my life -- not out of any conviction; I just don't like them -- yet no man has ever raised his hand against me. Not twice, at any rate. So sorry, but you fail to impress me in any way.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/experiment.htm

Obviously, it's a topic of interest for the US.

Yes and so is Cold Fusion, so far it is still impossible.

Hehe .... oh I was prepared to run like a bunny, but there were other people in the store and *some* of us don't believe our personal defense trumps defense of others.

Ah - I was outside, and was one of only two people in the immediate area.

I might well have behaved differently if members of my family were at risk...

All governments are socialist in nature. Including the USG. Look at Social Security and Welfare. Programs that take money from from some of us and spread it around to other who cannot or will not work for a living.

Whether we are corrupt or not is immaterial. This is solely a matter of survival.

Would you rather wait until they achieve their stated goal of destroying us, or would you rather do it to them first?

If it was merely a conventional conflict, it would be convenient to wait for them to make a move - after all, conventional attacks can't wipe out a nation.

But, if they obtain smallpox, as they have been trying to do, and they unleash it - well, that changes things.

Aren't you the guy who is hidden in the basement with a gun waiting for the islamists terrorists to invade your farm?

Be not afraid. It is only in DK's head. I highly doubt he's ever been in the military. His attitude would've gotten him booted on a psycho discharge.
Nope. Went through the psychological testing for sniper training.

If you would like to see the DD214, I would be glad to have it released to you.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/experiment.htm

Obviously, it's a topic of interest for the US.
So? Ten bucks says speaking with dead people was a topic of interest at one point.

Aren't you the guy who is hidden in the basement with a gun waiting for the islamists terrorists to invade your farm?

No, his shack in Montana. ;)

One might well ask why US soldiers committed orders of magnitude more atrocities against Japanese soldiers during WW II than against German soldiers.

John Keegan says it was because the Germans were "more like" us. And it made it easier to sympathize with them.

If they are very different - not only in appearance, but in complete world view - they are easy to kill with no remorse.
Prove that that actually happened, please.

I might well have behaved differently if members of my family were at risk...

I'm sure you would have. My slam was a backhand against DK's earlier statement of his personal conviction that self-defense trumps all.

Prove that that actually happened, please.

I have heard that quote before. I can not name the source off the top of my head but I have heard it. it is very sad if it is true.

When I heard it sent chills down my arms. I am very uplifted. I had given up hope and I had sort of begun to think that we had a purpose somehow of keeping him alive, well, you know how weird the CIA can be... Anyway, tis a day of celebration!:D

Be not afraid. It is only in DK's head. I highly doubt he's ever been in the military. His attitude would've gotten him booted on a psycho discharge.

I don't know... this current 'war' situation has left the military really dredging the bottom of the pool.

An acquaintance of mine (he worked in the gas station about 5 miles down the road) tried to 'sign up' at the start of last year, but failed the entry tests by a HUGE margin. He got a call about mid-year asking him to do a physical, so they could send him off for basic training...

It looks like, when they have their backs to the wall, the military will give guns to anyone that can sign their name and do a push-up.

Wasn't hung for shooting running men in the back.

Perfectly legal, because they shot at me first.

I didn't kill them because I was afraid of them - I stood there for a bit while they took shots at me. I killed them because it was permissible to do so.


Thats a pretty cowardly thing to do, there's no two ways around that fact.

Shooting someone in the back, pretty despicable and yellow.