NationStates Jolt Archive

I don't think that even the National Post would be so stupid as to say that prison rape doesn't happen. Do you read any legitimate newspapers, too, by the way, like maybe The Globe and Mail, Canada's newspaper of record?

well it doesnt happen often, all the prsioners in the government paid survey said they were never raped, nore could there be any chance of rape

then where did you hear that story about the "dont drop the soap", in a movie, from your gay friend, or from law and order?
My gay friend has never said that to me as it happens. I guess it just hasn't come p in conversation. Nor have I seen it in Law And Order. There was a shower rape scene in American History X, though I didn't notice anybody dropping any soap. I'm not sure where I first heard it though.

What is your proof for this statement?

global warming, anything to do with us destroying there way of life

people do not need those things when they are governed by a phylosphere king
What is a phylosphere king? I looked it up in the dictionary and there is no entry for it.

Anyways, so you're saying that if I took control of the government by military might and got rid of personal liberties that you would be happier than you are in the current democracy. Our do you only mean it's better if you're in charge?

well it doesnt happen often, all the prsioners in the government paid survey said they were never raped, nore could there be any chance of rape
Not happening often means it does happen. Oh, and it could just be sex, not rape.

global warming, anything to do with us destroying there way of life
And how do you prove that this is responsible for animal homosexuality?

global warming, anything to do with us destroying there way of life
Global warming as caused by man is bs. I can show you the charts, graphs, and figures, but that is another debate entirely.

i could easily turn around and ask you proof for your comments
It is common practive here to ask for a source on information if none is provided.

What is a phylosphere king? I looked it up in the dictionary and there is no entry for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher_king

Anyways, so you're saying that if I took control of the government by military might and got rid of personal liberties that you would be happier than you are in the current democracy. Our do you only mean it's better if you're in charge?

ONLY i you were a philosopher king

well it doesnt happen often, all the prsioners in the government paid survey said they were never raped, nore could there be any chance of rape
This is from the liberal government that you were saying was useless earlier is it not?

people do not need those things when they are governed by a phylosphere king

People don't need basic rights? Man, that's totally fucked up...

BTW (which is short for "by the way", by the way), did you mean "philosopher"? Because what you wrote would be pronounced "file-oh-sphere" and consists of a round ball of flaky Greek pastry.

Not happening often means it does happen. Oh, and it could just be sex, not rape.

give me academic proof that, inmates have sex

give me academic proof that, inmates have sex
I don't have any. I said could, I did not say that they definately do. Though it seems perfectly reasonable to assume that some do. After all gays do commit crimes now and then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher_king



ONLY i you were a philosopher king
I am a philosopher. Prove that I'm not. Rather, show me that you are. Generally I consider a philosopher to be someone who thinks about the way the world works and is not afraid to change if a better way is found. My entire value system is based on this idea, is yours?

I am a philosopher. Prove that I'm not. Rather, show me that you are. Generally I consider a philosopher to be someone who thinks about the way the world works and is not afraid to change if a better way is found. My entire value system is based on this idea, is yours?

you are not a philosopher king, and neither am i

i cannot be a dictaitor, and i never said i wanted to be, i want to get a philosopher king to be a dictaitor

ya, you do have equal rights, and i am not trying to get ride of that

According to the spirit of the law in most democracies, when they're constituted with high ideals like justice and freedom and liberty, yes, yes gay people are "equal." But in the real world gay people, as a group, are not treated equally to straight people, as a group. Even in the most progressive countries there is still discrimination. In America-- supposedly the greatest democracy on Earth, the country that talks about justice and liberty as though it invented them, the federal government has passed how many pieces of legislation that withhold full and equal treatment for gay people? The last election was won on "moral issues," and what do you think those issues were? Abortion (power over women) and gay marriage (power over 'faggots'). Even the "left wing" party, who claim to be champions of rights over the right-wingers, oppose full equality because they know that it's easier to get votes by pandering to the majority's prejudice than by taking a stand for full equality. Even when one level of government (ie. a state) passes legislation trying to afford equal treatment, or even protection from discrimination, you get the federal level of government (or, in another example, a Governator) opposing or vetoing that legislation. This isn't just opposing equality, it's opposition to not-discriminating. It's clear, explicit endorsement of prejudice and inequality. So no, you can say "you are equal, stop whining" all you like. You can say it until you're blue in the face. You can say that the letter of the law makes it so, but in many cases you'd be wrong, because in many cases the law is specifically written more to appease vocal bigots than to uphold justice. You can say that the spirit of the law makes it so, but that would be completely out of touch with everyday reality, reality that it's easy to be ignorant of (or deny) when you aren't the one being kicked out of your home or villified in sermons or killed in the park at night. Claiming that someone's oppression isn't real just because you've never suffered it doesn't make it go away.

they arent gay in the wild

try this link:
Gay Philomachus Pugnax (http://www.rug.nl/biologie/onderzoek/onderzoekGroepen/dierOecologie/publications/1Jukema06.pdf?as=pdf)

(after all these people asking for scientific documents, well: here's one for you...

According to the spirit of the law in most democracies, when they're constituted with high ideals like justice and freedom and liberty, yes, yes gay people are "equal." But in the real world gay people, as a group, are not treated equally to straight people, as a group. Even in the most progressive countries there is still discrimination. In America-- supposedly the greatest democracy on Earth, the country that talks about justice and liberty as though it invented them, the federal government has passed how many pieces of legislation that withhold full and equal treatment for gay people? The last election was won on "moral issues," and what do you think those issues were? Abortion (power over women) and gay marriage (power over 'faggots'). Even the "left wing" party, who claim to be champions of rights over the right-wingers, oppose full equality because they know that it's easier to get votes by pandering to the majority's prejudice than by taking a stand for full equality. Even when one level of government (ie. a state) passes legislation trying to afford equal treatment, or even protection from discrimination, you get the federal level of government (or, in another example, a Governator) opposing or vetoing that legislation. This isn't just opposing equality, it's opposition to not-discriminating. It's clear, explicit endorsement of prejudice and inequality. So no, you can say "you are equal, stop whining" all you like. You can say it until you're blue in the face. You can say that the letter of the law makes it so, but in many cases you'd be wrong, because in many cases the law is specifically written more to appease vocal bigots than to uphold justice. You can say that the spirit of the law makes it so, but that would be completely out of touch with everyday reality, reality that it's easy to be ignorant of (or deny) when you aren't the one being kicked out of your home or villified in sermons or killed in the park at night. Claiming that someone's oppression isn't real just because you've never suffered it doesn't make it go away.

no one is forcing gays to tell everyone that there gay

i am straight, but i dont tell everyone, why? because there is no point in that

try this link:
Gay Philomachus Pugnax (http://www.rug.nl/biologie/onderzoek/onderzoekGroepen/dierOecologie/publications/1Jukema06.pdf?as=pdf)

(after all these people asking for scientific documents, well: here's one for you...

i will not go to that link, thats probley a gay pornographic site

well i need to go to work, and do my part in society, my advice to you guys is get a job, you hippies

well i need to go to work, and do my part in society, my advice to you guys is get a job, you hippies
What? Hippies? How are we hippies?

i will not go to that link, thats probley a gay pornographic site
I doubt that gay porno come in pdf form

What? Hippies? How are we hippies?
All gay people wear patchouli.

i will not go to that link, thats probley a gay pornographic site

HAHAHAHA. Tnx for giving me a laugh.

Now why dont you go to work and when you come home, you will have come to your senses and realise you didnt mean anything you have written here...

As for me, I will go to bed (no not lazy, different time zone) and I will laugh myself to sleep thinking about your idiocy...

goodnight

All gay people wear patchouli.
Interesting. Perhaps patchouli makes people gay?

i will not go to that link, thats probley a gay pornographic site
I looked at it, and it is an article. Why must you assume that when someone tries to show you proof of they're claims you ignore it by saying it is porn? I think even you can agree that the people on this site have a bit more maturity than that.

well i need to go to work, and do my part in society, my advice to you guys is get a job, you hippies
I have a job. I work in construction when I'm not in school getting my engineering degree. I contribute, and making generalizations about everyone here seems to have become a habit of yours that I would apreciate if you'd stop.

I have a job. I work in construction when I'm not in school getting my engineering degree. I contribute, and making generalizations about everyone here seems to have become a habit of yours that I would apreciate if you'd stop.
Agreed. Personally, I think that this RTS person is pretty ignorant... He (or she... but probably he) should look at proof if he wants to argue it... o.O

Guess i didn't get the memo stating that anyone who believes in equality and basic human dignity must be a lazy bum who never contributes to society. I work, yet i'm not an ignorant, hateful biggot, funny that.

I don't mind if gay people have a parade, but I seriously doubt that prancing through towns in costume will help them to be seen as normal.

well i need to go to work, and do my part in society, my advice to you guys is get a job, you hippies

Got a full-time job and a university degree; and slinking off, dropping innuendo meant to insinuate that anyone who disagrees with you-- or makes a better argument than you do-- is somehow inferior because they couldn't possibly have time to work and study and think all at the same time... well that's just juvenile.

Got a full-time job and a university degree; and slinking off, dropping innuendo meant to insinuate that anyone who disagrees with you-- or makes a better argument than you do-- is somehow inferior because they couldn't possibly have time to work and study and think all at the same time... well that's just juvenile.
Laugh out load (spelled out for the benefit of Red Tory States who has a problem with acronyms). God help us if people who advocate equality could actully do something and not just sit on their asses trying to bring down the very fabric of society. It pains me that this debate cannot be brought to a peaceable conclusion. What's wrong with "Well I need to go to work, I'll be back later to continue this debate."? It's civil, it's polite, and since it doesn't resort to generalizations it gives more credibility to you when you come back.

I didn't say it was a conscious choice.

Oh, really? Then what is the gist of your argument, hmm? I've been told I have psychiatric problems, I'm going to hell, I've been threatened with my life and all other manner of genuinely unpleasant alternatives. Face it, you don't know what the heck you're talking about.


Strawman and ad hominem.

Do you deserve better? Instead of addressing the issue and trying to learn from it, you staunchly defend that, which in my opinion is an indefensible and juvenile position.

Do with your life what you see fit. That's your right and your business, but don't talk with me about an issue I have BITTER, PAINFUL life experience with unless you are ready to discuss it with an open mind.

If you do it, I will.

well i need to go to work, and do my part in society, my advice to you guys is get a job, you hippies

Does this mean the debate is over? :eek: Thought it would never end.

Can't be othered to read all the pages, I read 29 and I have to stop there.

i am not close minded, i do not have strick political beliefs that stay the same, my views do change, i used to be a strong supporter of the death penality, but i saw other views to the argument

It's not just political views that make you closed-minded.

Let's see....

You use the word "liberal" as a way to insult a poster.

You think liberals are "pissing on the American soil" your forefathers founded (something to that effect).

You think abortion is child-killing. **cough**conjugated ball of cells**cough**

You think birth control methods are immoral/wrong/whatever.

You think posters who don't share you view must be gay.

You're pissed that your church is "foreced to perform gay marriages".

Yeah, I think those help qualify you as "close minded" as you put it.

And..... through all this, you're Canadian? Shame on you. *wags finger*

no one is forcing gays to tell everyone that there gay

i am straight, but i dont tell everyone, why? because there is no point in that

There is no need for you to tell people. Because in general, people will probably assume that you are, because of heterosexism. "Heterosexism" is when people-- mostly straight people-- assume that straight is so normal and desireable that *everyone* is, or at least everyone should want to be, straight. It denies the value and even the existence of people who don't identify as straight. You, RTS, present a pretty archetypal heterosexist perspective, so you are no doubt comfortable with people assuming you're straight (and therefore "normal" and "good"), and don't see the need to talk about your orientation, because you're so "normal." Whereas when people assume that I'm straight, I'm about as happy about that as you would be if people assumed you were gay. I don't like it because in assuming I'm something I'm not, and treating me as "normal" and "good" only because they don't know that I'm not straight, that tacitly communicates that what I am is "abnormal" or "bad," because they don't want to know about it or think about it. Gay people feel the need to come out because we want to be dealt with honestly, for who we are, to our faces, not for who people want to assume us to be.
I challenge you again-- if most of the people you met, most of the places you went, assumed most of the time that you were gay and treated (or mistreated) you the way they did because of that assumption, I challenge you to honestly say you wouldn't feel the need to "come out" as straight. You wouldn't enjoy people assuming you were gay because that is not you, and I don't like people assuming I'm straight because that is not me. But unlike me, most people probably don't offend you by assuming you're something you're not.

There is no need for you to tell people. Because in general, people will probably assume that you are, because of heterosexism. "Heterosexism" is when people-- mostly straight people-- assume that straight is so normal and desireable that *everyone* is, or at least everyone should want to be, straight. It denies the value and even the existence of people who don't identify as straight. You, RTS, present a pretty archetypal heterosexist perspective, so you are no doubt comfortable with people assuming you're straight (and therefore "normal" and "good"), and don't see the need to talk about your orientation, because you're so "normal." Whereas when people assume that I'm straight, I'm about as happy about that as you would be if people assumed you were gay. I don't like it because in assuming I'm something I'm not, and treating me as "normal" and "good" only because they don't know that I'm not straight, that tacitly communicates that what I am is "abnormal" or "bad," because they don't want to know about it or think about it. Gay people feel the need to come out because we want to be dealt with honestly, for who we are, to our faces, not for who people want to assume us to be.
I challenge you again-- if most of the people you met, most of the places you went, assumed most of the time that you were gay and treated (or mistreated) you the way they did because of that assumption, I challenge you to honestly say you wouldn't feel the need to "come out" as straight. You wouldn't enjoy people assuming you were gay because that is not you, and I don't like people assuming I'm straight because that is not me. But unlike me, most people probably don't offend you by assuming you're something you're not.
Whoo! You kick ass!

There is no need for you to tell people. Because in general, people will probably assume that you are, because of heterosexism. "Heterosexism" is when people-- mostly straight people-- assume that straight is so normal and desireable that *everyone* is, or at least everyone should want to be, straight. It denies the value and even the existence of people who don't identify as straight. You, RTS, present a pretty archetypal heterosexist perspective, so you are no doubt comfortable with people assuming you're straight (and therefore "normal" and "good"), and don't see the need to talk about your orientation, because you're so "normal." Whereas when people assume that I'm straight, I'm about as happy about that as you would be if people assumed you were gay. I don't like it because in assuming I'm something I'm not, and treating me as "normal" and "good" only because they don't know that I'm not straight, that tacitly communicates that what I am is "abnormal" or "bad," because they don't want to know about it or think about it. Gay people feel the need to come out because we want to be dealt with honestly, for who we are, to our faces, not for who people want to assume us to be.
I challenge you again-- if most of the people you met, most of the places you went, assumed most of the time that you were gay and treated (or mistreated) you the way they did because of that assumption, I challenge you to honestly say you wouldn't feel the need to "come out" as straight. You wouldn't enjoy people assuming you were gay because that is not you, and I don't like people assuming I'm straight because that is not me. But unlike me, most people probably don't offend you by assuming you're something you're not.
Can I second every damn statement, supposition, proposition, and idea within the above paragraphs of text, enlightened and portrayed with skill and acuity?

Mainly, we don't need to know what your sexuality is anymore in our society. Adding into the fact that gays are are barely discrimated anymore(except for the nutjob that kills a few of them) we don't need to know your sexuality.

Mainly, we don't need to know what your sexuality is anymore in our society. Adding into the fact that gays are are barely discrimated anymore(except for the nutjob that kills a few of them) we don't need to know your sexuality.
BARELY DISCRiMINATED????? Try going to Alabama some time.:rolleyes:

http://img.sheezyart.com/art/medium/33/334043.jpg
Now watch as I force my heterosexuality upon you all :D

And you are perfectly within your rights to do so.

If you (most often) homophobes who don't want the "Gay lifestyle" thrust into your face, whilst saying that you have "nothing against homosexuality", begin by examing that you do actually have issues with accepting others sexuality.

Educate yourselves about what it means to be Gay. It's not a "lifestyle choice" it's a sexuality every bit as valid as your own heterosexuality. You don't want Gay Pride Parades, so what are you doing to ensure they are not necessary?

When will you start challenging homophobic mindsets, when will you support legal gay partnerships, when will you support Gay adoption, when will you challenge the poisonous bigotry of religious hatred towards Gays, when will you be angry and do something about Homophobic hate crimes, when will you advocate sex education that reinforces homosexuality as a natural sexual identity.

When you have started to challenge and defeat those and other forms of prejudice and bigotry, then I applaud your argument that Gay Pride Events are no longer necessary and should not happen.

<shaking head>

What a sad wreck of a life you both must lead to be offended or bothered by gay pride parades.

So we're good enough to be your hairdressers, interior decorators and other less "masculine" pursuits, but we're not good enough to be your bloody equals?

If you don't like gay pride parades then don't go to them, if you want to have a "straight" pride parade, go right ahead, it's your nickel. I promise not to laugh at your stereotypes, like you make fun of our stereotypes.

Or is it something deeper gentlemen? Seeing a bunch of gay men makes you feel all ooky inside? Unresolved issues in your lives? Not secure in your sexuality, even?

Deal with it.
Doesn't make me feel ooky (That a gay term by the way?)
Just makes me sick.

Like i said though in an earlier post. Let "them" have their parades. It suits them.

There's a place for every type in this world. The bearded women and the no bone in wrist men even.

I see two guys or two women walking down the street holding hands or whatever, i don't give it a second thought really.

The prancing, the high pitched voices that are faker than MJ's nose and the women in plaid shirts with goats on their chin on the other hand LOL

They have alot of guts i'll give them that.

Doesn't make me feel ooky (That a gay term by the way?)
Just makes me sick.

Like i said though in an earlier post. Let "them" have their parades. It suits them.

There's a place for every type in this world. The bearded women and the no bone in wrist men even.

I see two guys or two women walking down the street holding hands or whatever, i don't give it a second thought really.

The prancing, the high pitched voices that are faker than MJ's nose and the women in plaid shirts with goats on their chin on the other hand LOL

They have alot of guts i'll give them that.You're wrong, there isn't a place for every type in this world.

The macho thug who has a love affair with cheap beer, the eejits who rant drunkingly, whilst their beer bellys are 2 feet in front of them, I always seek to avoid.

The thick, inarticulate, types afraid of the word emotion who wear ill fitting T shirts and dubious tattoos who have never heard of personal grooming are about as fake (and lazy) as you can get.

They have a lot of guts....and I mean that literally, in fact too much, I'm disgusted to even think about it. No there's no place for that type in this world.

You're wrong, there isn't a place for every type in this world.

The macho thug who has a love affair with cheap beer, the eejits who rant drunkingly, whilst their beer bellys are 2 feet in front of them, I always seek to avoid.

The thick, inarticulate, types afraid of the word emotion who wear ill fitting T shirts and dubious tattoos who have never heard of personal grooming are about as fake (and lazy) as you can get.

They have a lot of guts....and I mean that literally, in fact too much, I'm disgusted to even think about it. No there's no place for that type in this world.Damn it Squirrel.... listen to yourself. There IS a place for YOU in this world.

Do some sit ups and you'll feel better about yourself.

Back to the fairy parade.... do they pay for their own parades?

I love minorities when they suck...

Gay Parade ? YES and free abortion for Gay people, YES.
When talking serious, could we make the same day the Religious Parade, just to know what's on the market?

It would not disturb the Gay Parade as such they're fired from most of the churches around. And homophobic people are mainly recruited in these religious groups.

Yes I know it will make trouble for the catholic priests... 50% of them are gay, OK just say they could send substitutes to the Religious Parade when they slide around the Gay Parade...


The High Priest
- Not Gay but certainly the Father of your children -

Damn it Squirrel.... listen to yourself. There IS a place for YOU in this world.

Do some sit ups and you'll feel better about yourself.

Back to the fairy parade.... do they pay for their own parades?Thanks for including me within your damaged world view, How can society pay for gay Pride events when it's too busy paying medical treatment for the neanderthals who are too busy hitting each other, their wives/partners or rampaging in drunken homophobic hate crimes (then slipping on their own vomit) but fortunately fall flat on their fat faces.

Where are you placed in this rosy (if slightly pink) picture?

Doesn't make me feel ooky (That a gay term by the way?)
Just makes me sick.

Like i said though in an earlier post. Let "them" have their parades. It suits them.

There's a place for every type in this world. The bearded women and the no bone in wrist men even.

I see two guys or two women walking down the street holding hands or whatever, i don't give it a second thought really.

The prancing, the high pitched voices that are faker than MJ's nose and the women in plaid shirts with goats on their chin on the other hand LOL

They have alot of guts i'll give them that.

Ooky- Odd, weird or strange. Not a gay term. Word made famous by the theme song to "The Addams Family" TV series.

In every group there are the outrageous ones. This is equally true if you are gay or straight. You discuss this subject as if the stereotypes you see are truly representative of gays. You should no more believe that the highly-effeminate acting, limp wristed stereotype is representative of gays than I should believe the beer-swilling, pickup truck driving, ultra-macho stereotype is representative of the straight male community. The truth in life is almost always in the middle, not the edges. The reason you see more of these stereotypes at gay pride parades is that they make good images for the 6:00 news. BTW, we have our ultra-macho types too.

If you met me in real life you would not know by the way I act or look that I am gay. You have probably met a good number of gay men and women and just don't know it.

Once it is no longer necessary to remind you that we exist and that we are not equal, then you will see gay pride parades reduce in numbers. I doubt if they will go away completely though. They are great fun, and I tend to enjoy myself seeing the vast array of images, costumes and the straight acting stock broker dress up and act mary for a day. I guess it's part statement, part celebration.

In my opinion the most effective tool we have in our quest for equality are our stories, and the personal contact with people who think we all dress like Tinker Bell, speak in falsetto and prance about. I have a good number of friends who are straight who when they finally discovered I was gay just shrugged and it did not change the terms of our friendships. There were a couple that couldn't face the truth and are no longer my friends.

The parades are just a reminder that we exist and we are not going to go back into the closet for you or anybody else.

Happy Mother's Day (US)

Can't we just let the thread die in peace?

You're wrong, there isn't a place for every type in this world.

The macho thug who has a love affair with cheap beer, the eejits who rant drunkingly, whilst their beer bellys are 2 feet in front of them, I always seek to avoid.

The thick, inarticulate, types afraid of the word emotion who wear ill fitting T shirts and dubious tattoos who have never heard of personal grooming are about as fake (and lazy) as you can get.

They have a lot of guts....and I mean that literally, in fact too much, I'm disgusted to even think about it. No there's no place for that type in this world.

OOhhh! Look how intolerantly "tolerant" you are. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

OOhhh! Look how intolerantly "tolerant" you are. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:Ohh, I'm sorry! I thought we were speaking in cliches......see how damaging and "intolerant" they can be!!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Thanks for including me within your damaged world view, How can society pay for gay Pride events when it's too busy paying medical treatment for the neanderthals who are too busy hitting each other, their wives/partners or rampaging in drunken homophobic hate crimes (then slipping on their own vomit) but fortunately fall flat on their fat faces.

Where are you placed in this rosy (if slightly pink) picture?

I'm not in that picture thankfully.

But i know where you fit in.

BTW, if you're a member of the Conservative party of Canada, you're not a Tory. I'm a Tory, from the old Progressive Conservative party, which I joined back in 1974. I was at the convention in 1976 that chose Joe Clark as leader, and he's always been my guy politically. He's also a Tory. We real Tories get very insulted when people refer to neocons as Tories, especially after the hostile takeover of our party by the Reform pinheads.

We don't even particularly like neocons to be called "conservative" because we think the neocons have gotten the word "conservative" all dirty. If you want to know what a real conservative is, look at Benjamin Disraeli or David Orchard, not Spurious George in the White House, not Pat Buchanan, not Preston Manning, and certainly not Stephen Fucking Harper.

I apologize for my previous statement equating the two. I was unaware of any "Trekkie vs Trekker" type disparity between the generations.

BTW - Joe Clark. Good Choice. I miss him being in office. And I'm a liberal supporter.

I'm not in that picture thankfully.

But i know where you fit in.A man of few words ehh?
:D

so doctors and the schoolboard just decided to tell my parents that i was dyslexic just for the hell of it???



I restate : Spellchecker. Get One.

okay, i am a tory, but i never said that i was a member of the conservitive party of canada,

Then you aren't a canadian tory.

me too hate the reform party

This sentence is beyond any form of dyslexia. Learn the language you are attempting to abuse.

and how the toke over the PC party.

The two parties amalgamated as neither one of them had the strength to continue to exist on their own.

i am a member of the PC party that was re-started by tories! So where did you get that i was a member of the conservitive party???

Can anybody make sense out of this? You're a Tory, not a conservative, but you are a member of the only party calling themselves conservatives or tories..... So you are all and none of the above all at once? No wonder your world view is so skewed.

I consider myself i real tory unlike you, i base my beliefs on macdonald and definbaker, not joe clark ( a pm that was weak).

He said he was there when Clark was elected in, not that he based his beliefs on Clark. BTW- MacDonald was an alcoholic abusive ass.

so dont jump to conclusions, i am tried of telling people this.

You start making sense first and we've got a deal.

a traditional tory would never be a homo

#1 - Back that up with evidence before you make the claim.

#2 - You really are nothing but a biggotted fascist, aren't you? The way you're going, you'd start attacking gays that were on your side of this debate just on the principle that they're gay so they must be wrong.

Here's what you need to do. Stop. Think. Decide if you are ready to face reality as it is. Realize that God's creatures, as fallible as they are, may not shine to your eyes, but you have been instructed to turn the other cheek. Further, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Unless you can justify all of the attacks you have made upon others throughout the course of this thread, you'd best be on your way to confession, son. Absolve yourself of your own sins, and stop perpetrating your hatred towards those whom you view as lesser than yourself.

In case you need a refresher, at a quick count, Wrath, Vanity, Greed, Sloth are the sins I know you are guilty of. Gluttony, Envy, and Lust would only be conjecture on my part.

I thought this thread died yesterday.

i have thought it always has been unnatural, but i still think that being gay in private away from society is alright, i am not the type of person that invades peoples rights

THE GAY PRIDE PARADE IS A PREVILGE NOT A RIGHT


Right to Peacable Assembly. Yep. It's a right.

stop postings and ending a forum are very similar

Nobody said stop posting. They said stop feeding the Troll. Try to keep up.

thats not what the parade is about, when it was first was created in the 1970's in new york it was, and that was fine, but now its out of hand. the way those people act and dress is gross, if jesus came back today he would not be able to stop vomiting

Jesus took a whore under his wing to protect her, but you don't think he'd be able to stomache a large group of people publicly expressing their love and pride? You know nothing about your own savior. I'm not even a christian and I'm ridiculously offended by that. Seriously guy, you need to stop and think. Or even better, read your bible some more. Actually take in the knowledge. Don't assume the dogma. Understand the words written on the page.

I thought this thread died yesterday.
Me too. And it's somehow continuing without the main(only?) poster for the 'for' side. Madness.

so you just made that up? so it could be 10 letters shorter, WOW 10 FREAKING LETTER!!!

Relax. You asked. It was explained. And yes, typing RTS takes less time than typing out Red Tory States. Deal with your trauma, move on with your life.

lazy assholes

You are going to invite a flaming war. I wouldn't advise it. Firstly because it is frowned upon by the Moderators. Secondly, because it is unnecessarily rude. Thirdly, there are individuals here who demonstrate themselves to be much more intelligent, eloquent, and incisive than you do. You'll lose.

You are going to invite a flaming war. I wouldn't advise it. Firstly because it is frowned upon by the Moderators. Secondly, because it is unnecessarily rude. Thirdly, there are individuals here who demonstrate themselves to be much more intelligent, eloquent, and incisive than you do. You'll lose.

I don't think RTS is even reading this anymore. So, you might be talking to yourself.

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1275591.html


Another news article? How strong of a conservative are you that you base all of your current issue opinions on the liberal media instead of textbook facts?

ya the zoo was just telling a tale, just for no reason what so ever

Nope. The media was using a carefully selected vocabulary intended to draw attention to the article. In the instance of the penguins, there is noone who is going to sue for libel, so it doesn't matter if they call the penguins gay or not. The article didn't even include any direct quotes from the zoo or zoo staff. The zoo didn't tell a tale at all. A member of the media did.

ya, you do have equal rights, and i am not trying to get ride of that

Yes. Yes you are. You are attempting to infringe on their right to have a parade.

Nope. The media was using a carefully selected vocabulary intended to draw attention to the article. In the instance of the penguins, there is noone who is going to sue for libel, so it doesn't matter if they call the penguins gay or not. The article didn't even include any direct quotes from the zoo or zoo staff. The zoo didn't tell a tale at all. A member of the media did.
This has to be the forum equivilant of talking to yourself. The thread is over. The time to respond was yesterday. This is thread necrophilia.

prison sex/rape never happens that was just a joke passed around by someone


If you'd like me to forward you my medical records about the condition I was in after being brutally raped by my cell mate, I'm sure I could petition Kingston Pennitentiary to have them released. Before you respond to this, I beg of you to actually find evidence to back up any claims about anything you have to say. You have been digging yourself a ridiculously deep hole from which I fear there is no return.

they arent gay in the wild


Prove it.

its just common knowledge


Apparently not. You have a number of us asking for proof. Produce it.

Apparently not. You have a number of us asking for proof. Produce it.
This is blatant post whoring.

thats our fault that is happening

Prove it.

This has to be the forum equivilant of talking to yourself. The thread is over. The time to respond was yesterday. This is thread necrophilia.

Agreed. Well, I am now officially abandoning the thread. If Kivisto continues talking to himself a mod will probably lock the thread eventually.

then where did you hear that story about the "dont drop the soap", in a movie, from your gay friend, or from law and order?


I discovered it the hard way. By dropping the soap in the prison shower.

people do not need those things when they are governed by a phylosphere king

Just out of severe morbid curiousity....What ... the hell.... is a phyloshpere?

(yeah, I know you meant philosopher. Seriously. Spellchecker)

This is blatant post whoring.
Nah... I think this falls under 'catharsis'. Let 'im be.

well it doesnt happen often, all the prsioners in the government paid survey said they were never raped, nore could there be any chance of rape


Because the government would never lie. Really? Are you honestly this naive as well as this biggotted?

Nah... I think this falls under 'catharsis'. Let 'im be.
Catharsis?

Catharsis?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharsis

global warming, anything to do with us destroying there way of life


Let's try for actual academic proof. Leave your home-brewed theories at home.

give me academic proof that, inmates have sex


Does my own personal inmate sexual experience count?

no one is forcing gays to tell everyone that there gay

i am straight, but i dont tell everyone, why? because there is no point in that

And yet you repeatedly tell us that you are straight. Why bother if there is no point?

i will not go to that link, thats probley a gay pornographic site


Refusal to aknowledge information that differs from your own world paradigm does nothing to lessen the validity of said information. It only goes to further show you for the narrow minded bigot that you are.

well i need to go to work, and do my part in society, my advice to you guys is get a job, you hippies


Got a job, thanks. Can't stand hippies, either. They're almost as bad as neo-fascists who can't deal with anything that is different from them.

Got a job, thanks. Can't stand hippies, either. They're almost as bad as neo-fascists who can't deal with anything that is different from them.
I just don't like their inevitable and invariable tendency to avoid batheing adequately - coupled with an undeniable over-reliance on patchouli oil to cover-up the stench of their armpits. Piu.

I don't mind if gay people have a parade, but I seriously doubt that prancing through towns in costume will help them to be seen as normal.

Not so much aiming at normal as just getting people to accept them for who they are. Throw it in their face and make them realize that it won't change. Let me rephase that. That it can't change. Many wouldn't change if they could. They like who they are and see no need to believe differently. I'm proud of them. Many of the rest of us could take a lesson from that book.

I don't think RTS is even reading this anymore. So, you might be talking to yourself.

Crap.

I'm a couple of pages behind in responses, so I think you might be right.

Ah well.

Feeling better now?

Not so much aiming at normal as just getting people to accept them for who they are. Throw it in their face and make them realize that it won't change. Let me rephase that. That it can't change. Many wouldn't change if they could. They like who they are and see no need to believe differently. I'm proud of them. Many of the rest of us could take a lesson from that book.

I have no objection to a "gay pride parade" I just think it's counter-productive. If a group want acceptance from others, then having an exclusively gay parade seems more likely to have the effect of cutting that particular group off from the rest of society. Parades that seek to emphasise why we are different rather than what we have in common rarely succeed in bringing about greater integration.

Why is this thread still going?

Why is this thread still going?
Kivisto needed some personal growth time.

Somebody needs to take a breather. Ok, show's over folks, nothing to see here, these aren't the droids you're looking for and all that...
In the words of Porky Pig "tha-tha-tha-tha-That's all folks."

i'm sure this has probably already been said but i'm not trawling through 40-odd pages of posts to find out, so here goes:

apart from the whole freedom of speech and association ideas, gay pride marches are allowed, are necessary, because we live in a world where, unless you state or act otherwise, most people will assume you are straight. this is annoying for gays, lesbians, bisexuals etc. in the same way that people using england as a synonym for britain is annoying; people assuming you are short-tempered because you are ginger is annoying; or people assuming that because you are openly gay you will instantly try and hit on them because they are the same sex as you is annoying.

on top of this there is the sad fact that homosexual public displays of affection such as holding hands or kissing are much more vilified than similar behaviour by heterosexuals. no-one would look twice at a hetero couplewalking down the street holding hands (unless they were jealous, i suppose), whereas a homosexual couple doing the same would be looked at askance by the vast majority of fellow pedestrians.

apart from all this, sexuality is a performance as well as an innate part of our being. gay pride marches help to validate the performance of 'alternative' sexualities and bring them into common acceptance by the public at large. they can remove the 'othering' of non-heterosexuals from people's attitudes. of course they can have the opposite effect by causing a backlash but fortunately the general trend in society appears to be a gradual increase in acceptance of different lifestyles and personalities and those who can't accept them will be left behind and will hopefully see their attitudes die out.

Crap.

I'm a couple of pages behind in responses, so I think you might be right.

Ah well.

ya i have been working so its hard to read everything

I have no objection to a "gay pride parade" I just think it's counter-productive. If a group want acceptance from others, then having an exclusively gay parade seems more likely to have the effect of cutting that particular group off from the rest of society. Parades that seek to emphasise why we are different rather than what we have in common rarely succeed in bringing about greater integration.
who wants to be integrated? what these parades do is celebrate difference at the same time as show that gay stereotypes are not all accurate. if the parades were done in a way that showed homosexual identity in opposition to heterosexuality then that would be courting ostracism(sp?) but they are not. if you actually look at the marchers in these parades there will be plenty of people who you might assume are straight. it's just the flamboyently dressed people grab your attention because they are more provocative.

Kivisto needed some personal growth time.
And I wasn't here to be a post whore?

Damn :mad:

It is due to the gay fascist mafia that has, in part, destroyed America!!

It is due to the gay fascist mafia that has, in part, destroyed America!!

so true

It is due to the gay fascist mafia that has, in part, destroyed America!!
What? Apart from the fact that that makes absolutely no sense, (You can't just use pronouns willy nilly, at least not in English) you offer no proof of your claim.

You truly are grasping at straws now.

It is due to the gay fascist mafia that has, in part, destroyed America!!

OMG! Not another one! Where do you people even get these ideas? :headbang:

You can't just use pronouns willy nilly

i can tell your gay

OMG! Not another one! Where do you people even get these ideas? :headbang:

omg, everyone OMG!!! LOL!!!

next time take that few extra seconds to type in "oh my god"

i can tell your gay
Oh really? You can go right ahead and think that, but I want to know. What makes you so sure that I'm gay? Huh? Is it because I actually believe that they shouldn't have their rights stripped from them and that they should be able to show affection to their partners in the same manner that straight couples do.
I really am curious, because if you're right then it's news to me, and I'm sure it'll be news to my girlfriend.

omg, everyone OMG!!! LOL!!!

next time take that few extra seconds to type in "oh my god"
And while we are criticizing people for their typing you could spend a few extra seconds capitalizing and punctuation.

i can tell your gay

omg, everyone OMG!!! LOL!!!

next time take that few extra seconds to type in "oh my god"
Next time take that extra few seconds and type in "you're" or "you are". Don't go correcting people's writing when you make basic grammar mistakes.

OMG! Not another one! Where do you people even get these ideas? :headbang:
I think it's a joke. At least I hope it is.

omg, everyone OMG!!! LOL!!!

next time take that few extra seconds to type in "oh my god"


Did you just instruct someone on grammer? Seeing as you didn't even capitalize or punctuate, you shouldn't be talking. This thread is dead. I declare it so. I also suggest that if this thread carrys on any further that people start spamming. That'll bring the beast to a halt. :D

I think it's a joke. At least I hope it is.
You never know. With some of the people who've come out of the woodwork on this one. That could be his honest to god opinion.

Did you just instruct someone on grammer? Seeing as you didn't even capitalize or punctuate, you shouldn't be talking. This thread is dead. I declare it so. I also suggest that if this thread carrys on any further that people start spamming. That'll bring the beast to a halt. :D
Death by spam. Gruesome.

Oh really? You can go right ahead and think that, but I want to know. What makes you so sure that I'm gay? Huh? Is it because I actually believe that they shouldn't have their rights stripped from them and that they should be able to show affection to their partners in the same manner that straight couples do.
I really am curious, because if you're right then it's news to me, and I'm sure it'll be news to my girlfriend.

no, you loser its because you called someone a "willy nilly"

... and because you support gay rights

If RST is serious, then I'm a transvestite. Whoa, I sholuld have looked in a mirror before I said that.

omg, everyone OMG!!! LOL!!!

next time take that few extra seconds to type in "oh my god"
This proves it, you annoy me.

Oh yeah, spam.... er... PEEP.

And while we are criticizing people for their typing you could spend a few extra seconds capitalizing and punctuation.

you still can understand, what i am saying though

Did you just instruct someone on grammer? Seeing as you didn't even capitalize or punctuate, you shouldn't be talking. This thread is dead. I declare it so. I also suggest that if this thread carrys on any further that people start spamming. That'll bring the beast to a halt. :D
Since it's been about 20 pages since RTS actually presented a new argument one could argue that the whole 2nd half of this thread is spam.

no, you loser its because you called someone a "willy nilly"

... and because you support gay rights
That makes someone gay?

Wow that should be the new test to see if someone is homosexual :p

no, you loser its because you called someone a "willy nilly"

... and because you support gay rights
He didnt' call anyboy willy nilly, he said that someone was using pronounds willy nilly. You sir are clearly a bigot and I hold your opinion to be worthless.

If RST is serious, then I'm a transvestite. Whoa, I sholuld have looked in a mirror before I said that.

go die

you still can understand, what i am saying though


I can't understand... I tried to correct your grammer, but this is all that came out: "I can still understand? What am I saying though?"

Hey, RTS, I thought you didn't hate people with diffrent gender prefrences. Telling someone to die is pretty hateful.

you still can understand, what i am saying though

And you managed to understand what the quoted poster was saying as well.

Your pointing it out had nothing to do with a failure to communicate, but rather with the need to be an ass rather then addressing any sort of point of view or argument.

you still can understand, what i am saying though
And clearly you understood that OMG=oh my god.

you still can understand, what i am saying though
If you can't understand "OMG".. you're a retart.

That makes someone gay?

Wow that should be the new test to see if someone is homosexual :p

any man that acts like a homo or a girl, should be labeled as gay

Retart... hahahahahahahahaha... thats pure gold.

go die
Oh noes! OMG! j00 pwnd him!!!

It is due to the gay fascist mafia that has, in part, destroyed America!!

do you see any willy nilly in there????

any man that acts like a homo or a girl, should be labeled as gay

I'm bisexual, and I act like a homo or a girl half the time. Am I gay? Or am I just having fun?

Hey, RTS, I thought you didn't hate people with diffrent gender prefrences. Telling someone to die is pretty hateful.

once again, i dont hate people with different gender prefences, but i do hate the ones that come out and say that they do

go die
Your flaming has been reported to moderation. Telling someone to die because they don't agree with you is pathetic and horrible.

Retart... hahahahahahahahaha... thats pure gold.
I wanted him to find the typo.

no, you loser its because you called someone a "willy nilly"

... and because you support gay rights
I didn't call a person willy nilly. I said you can't use pronouns willy nilly. It means that you can't just use pronouns that have not been defined. Since the first word of his post was 'it' that it was never defined as being conected with anything. Therefore it is meaningless (Notice how that 'it' was connected to the word 'it' in my previous sentence. That English, I suggest you learn it)

As for me being gay because I support gay rights, then I simply pity you. So if a gay man says "No, we shouldn't ban all rights for straight people." he's straight?

By your logic animal rights activists are animals.

Why are you still here? You no longer even attempt to defend yourself, you merely attack others who would like nothing more than for you to have a reasonable debate.

Your flaming has been reported to moderation. Telling someone to die because they don't agree with you is pathetic and horrible.
YAY!

:D

once again, i dont hate people with different gender prefences, but i do hate the ones that come out and say that they do
Why hate someone who is honest with who they are?

once again, i dont hate people with different gender prefences, but i do hate the ones that come out and say that they do

You've come out and said that you're straight. Do you hate yourself? You should. If you don't you're a damn hipocrite.

And you managed to understand what the quoted poster was saying as well.

Your pointing it out had nothing to do with a failure to communicate, but rather with the need to be an ass rather then addressing any sort of point of view or argument.

i can understand omg, but remember when you guys started using rts, i did not know what that meant, so stop using short forms

Why hate someone who is honest with who they are?
Because they're gay, of course.

I'm bisexual, and I act like a homo or a girl half the time. Am I gay? Or am I just having fun?
No worries I am bi as well

I'm bisexual, and I act like a homo or a girl half the time. Am I gay? Or am I just having fun?

your gay

I wanted him to find the typo.

Yeah, but if you think about it, "retart", as in "Retard" and "Tart" combined...

Your flaming has been reported to moderation. Telling someone to die because they don't agree with you is pathetic and horrible.

baby

your gay
You're

your gay

I don't much appreciate people telling me who I am. How would you feel if I put up a giant public sign saying "RED TORY STATES IS A NAZI". Not so good 'eh?

i can understand omg, but remember when you guys started using rts, i did not know what that meant, so stop using short forms
So it boils down to the fact that you are having trouble reading it but refuse to share the same courtesy with the rest of us by doing things like using correct grammar and punctuating.

That’s what we like to call hypocritical.

I didn't call a person willy nilly. I said you can't use pronouns willy nilly. It means that you can't just use pronouns that have not been defined. Since the first word of his post was 'it' that it was never defined as being conected with anything. Therefore it is meaningless (Notice how that 'it' was connected to the word 'it' in my previous sentence. That English, I suggest you learn it)

As for me being gay because I support gay rights, then I simply pity you. So if a gay man says "No, we shouldn't ban all rights for straight people." he's straight?

By your logic animal rights activists are animals.

Why are you still here? You no longer even attempt to defend yourself, you merely attack others who would like nothing more than for you to have a reasonable debate.


dont use "willy nilly" to show bad examples of pronouns

baby
:rolleyes: Sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me.

baby
Nope he/she is acting like an adult and following correct forum procedure

Yeah, but if you think about it, "retart", as in "Retard" and "Tart" combined...
Wah...???

Why hate someone who is honest with who they are?

they still can be honest in private

Nope he/she is acting like an adult and following correct forum procedure
Em, he. But don't worry about it.

So it boils down to the fact that you are having trouble reading it but refuse to share the same courtesy with the rest of us by doing things like using correct grammar and punctuating.

That’s what we like to call hypocritical.

But didn't RTS say that he's dyslexic? The lies are unfolding...

they still can be honest in private
And you can hate in private too.

But you feel the need to broadcast that as well.

I don't much appreciate people telling me who I am. How would you feel if I put up a giant public sign saying "RED TORY STATES IS A NAZI". Not so good 'eh?

go do that

baby

You have remarkable debating skills.:rolleyes:

But didn't RTS say that he's dyslexic? The lies are unfolding...

what lies??? can anyone tell me?

any man that acts like a homo or a girl, should be labeled as gay
Simple query. What is 'acting like a homo'? Since you have labeled me as gay, I'll try and answer it myself. So how do I act...

Oh that's right, I'm respectful to women, I don't hate people because they are attracted to the same sex, I'll actually form good friendships with both sexes and different sexual orientations.

Wow. If that's what acting gay is, then I have no problem with you calling me gay. It doesn't change who I'm attracted to, so I really don't care.

You have remarkable debating skills.:rolleyes:

Indeed, RTS has been able to keep up an argument for 44 pages. Although it could be that he's just stubbourn.

You have remarkable debating skills.:rolleyes:

so do you

go die
Red Tory States, we don't allow posters to tell others on this board to go die. Please remember that when you come back from your 3 day forum ban.

As the actual debate/discussion in this thread seems to have disappeared and been replaced by spamming/childishness, it's getting locked.

If anyone has anything left to actually say, I'm sure they can start another informative thread.