NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, if I have to calm down Eut, then I'm drinking. I know it's only 3PM on a Thursday, but I suspect that this isn't going to go quickly. And Sinuhue better be more relaxed and wearing a grass skirt when I get back.
I'll do my best but I can't promise anything. Drinking is a good idea, though. I'll do it too.:p

Takes a breath.

Ok. I'm sorry I over reacted. I just didn't like the tone of your comment towards a Canadian francophone, and felt you were dismissing his contribution.

Apology accepted. I'm glad we worked out the confusion. :)

*sigh* To prove to you something that is so bloody obvious...you are really being a pain in my ass. Does it have to be in English? No. Good. But no...forget it, Jocabia. You're asking me to prove a linguistic fact. Estadounidense is the official name for citizens of the USA. Not Americano. Both terms can be used, but the word Estadounidense did not rear it's head scant decades ago. Do a quick search...google estadounidense, then google americano. See how many hits refer to citizens of the US when you search americano.

I'm not going to try to prove to you something you would know if you spoke Spanish.

I did a search. I can find no reference to it that is not recent. I'm not being a pain. I am actually curious. If my point is spurious I'd like to know so I don't further embarass myself and my fellow Jocabians like Eut and George W. Bush.

Because you see it that way doesn't make it so.
Undeniably true, but knowing the general posting style they use, and given that most of them seem to despise America, I think it's a pretty safe bet.

"Turkish possesions in Europe" So you admit that west of the Bosphorus is Europe, but for some reason, probably political, mapmakers don't see it as that.

Hmm... I wonder how this relates to our problem of America / Americas...

It is simple - Brussels (EU) doesn't want Turks in union, as Anglosaxons doesn't want you!

First off, I am an American. I live in the United States of America. Call me whatever you want, I really don't care, but I do think the term USian is kind of silly. But that's OK, cause I say things like "Noon O'Clock" instead of "12:00", so whatever. But I will tell you now that, no matter how you intended the connotation, the denotation will be that you're kind of silly for using such a silly term.

"American" is a widely accepted term that is more-often-than-not meant to refer to the peoples of the USA. Hence, it makes sense to continue using the term. You may be offended but, hey, we can all get offended over anything; you might want to check why you have so much anger over what is little more than an arbitrary 8 letter matching of letters.

But call me whatever you want, like I said it doesn't matter. I'm not going to take offense, nor deride you for wanting that term for your own, nor anything because to me it's all whatever.

However, to refute all those who somehow think it's the only term used "inappropriately" this way, I ask:

Do you call Russians "Asian"?

[Edited for grammar, us Americans are like that.]

In 1986. Again, I said before the last half century can anyone find an example. I know that it is a new phenomenon. Sin claimed it's not. I would consider 20 years ago, new.
No, you 'know' it's a new phenomenon in ENGLISH.

No, you 'know' it's a new phenomenon in ENGLISH.

Fine. I would like evidence it's an old phenomenon in Spanish but you won't offer it. I'll read it in Spanish if you just tell me the poems, books, etc.

Read the rest of the thread. The reasons are plenty.
Spurious, but plenty.

That would be fine if we were argueing in Spanish on a Spanish board. But, since we're argueing in English on an English speaking board, the word is "American". :p
No, Jocabia is claiming that the term 'UnitedStatesian' is a new phenomenon in other languages as well. I'm saying it's slowly bleeding over into English, but that the term itself is not new.

Actually, I think it's a valid point. Most people use the word without any confusion at all, so trying to force people to change their vocabulary serves no point, except to make them mad.
But the point is that in many languages, the word is already used, and has been for some time. Sure, it may be a newer word in English, but that doesn't mean it's coming out of nowhere, nor are its origins insulting in nature. The term isn't insulting in Spanish, French or Portuguese...why would it be in English?

so let me get this straight...

You post an OP. (your link)

He asks questions on the OP.

Your anwers to these questions is posting the OP again?

:rolleyes:
We may be talking at cross-purposes here. The thread in which he was the OP was locked. I was trying to give a reasonable response to his OP, but couldn't because the thread had been locked. Thus, the new thread. Make sense now??

Actually, I think it's a valid point. Most people use the word without any confusion at all, so trying to force people to change their vocabulary serves no point, except to make them mad.
And some people find the word leads to confusion. They are trying to change their vocabulary to be more precise and are not asking others to follow suit.

It's not like someone in this thread asked for all US Citizens to stop refering to themsleves as "Americans"

Undeniably true, but knowing the general posting style they use, and given that most of them seem to despise America, I think it's a pretty safe bet.
Some people will come knocking on your door tomorrow and take your posessions. You lost the bet.

Do you call Russians "Asian"?

Well, this is 'bit tricky. Russans are from Europe (just as white Americans are), but as Russian empire becomed larger, the people moved to the Asia. I dunno, for me Russians are European nation.

No, Jocabia is claiming that the term 'UnitedStatesian' is a new phenomenon in other languages as well. I'm saying it's slowly bleeding over into English, but that the term itself is not new.

I'll back you up on this one. I am asking about Spanish, so I would be very curious to learn other than what I have learned. I'm asking you to help me do that. Anyone who tells you that you cannot talk to me about Spanish in regards to this term should be ignored.

Y'know... I think we've found another misconception. I don't know ANY americans who hate mexicans inherently. I know some who hate the ones who are trying to come to this country illegally. I know some who even hate the ones who come legally. But the ones who stay contentedly in Mexico... I don't know ANYONE who hates them.
Actually, I rather admire most Mexicans. They're hard-working, they don't seem to pry into others' lives, they are almost always polite, most of them seem to be honest. All in all, rather admirable people.

But the point is that in many languages, the word is already used, and has been for some time. Sure, it may be a newer word in English, but that doesn't mean it's coming out of nowhere, nor are its origins insulting in nature. The term isn't insulting in Spanish, French or Portuguese...why would it be in English?

Because it implies that Americans are arrogant for using the word to refer to things pertaining to their country.

Yeah, but is was the only book I had on hand.
I don't have anything but Spanish textbooks on hand (which back me up but aren't 50 years old...wait...one is close...and it also uses estadounidense for US citizenship) and I'm not about to fruitlessly search for books online.

Strangely, although Albanians call their country Shqiptarçë, they take offense at being called Shqiptari, or at least they did in Greece and Yugoslavia when I was there. :confused:
That might be because most Albanians in Greece are trying to pass as Greek in order to get into other European countries:p (I say this, because my best-friend's husband did exactly that...don't blow their cover!)

I'll back you up on this one. I am asking about Spanish, so I would be very curious to learn other than what I have learned. I'm asking you to help me do that. Anyone who tells you that you cannot talk to me about Spanish in regards to this term should be ignored.

In school in Chile, I was taught that the correct term for US citizens is estadounidenses, and that the abbreviation is EEUU. Hope that helps.

And some people find the word leads to confusion. They are trying to change their vocabulary to be more precise and are not asking others to follow suit.

It's not like someone in this thread asked for all US Citizens to stop refering to themsleves as "Americans"

If they wanted to be more precise, they would say "North American," "South American," and the like. "American," as a catch-all for both continents, is rather imprecise. I'm studying in the US, and my American friends use the word to describe things pertaining to their country. This usage is extremely precise.

I did a search. I can find no reference to it that is not recent. I'm not being a pain. I am actually curious. If my point is spurious I'd like to know so I don't further embarass myself and my fellow Jocabians like Eut and George W. Bush.
Well what you want to know is if 'estadounidense' was used longer than 50 years ago?

I don't have anything but Spanish textbooks on hand (which back me up but aren't 50 years old...wait...one is close...and it also uses estadounidense for US citizenship) and I'm not about to fruitlessly search for books online.

I know "Spanish for Dummies" says "estadounidense", but that's a recent book. And I don't remember squat from my old high school Spanish, nor do I have any old texts from it.

Because it implies that Americans are arrogant for using the word to refer to things pertaining to their country.
Is it implying that just in English, and not in the other languages then?

Originally Posted by Czardas
Strangely, although Albanians call their country Shqiptarçë, they take offense at being called Shqiptari, or at least they did in Greece and Yugoslavia when I was there.

Czardas - sounds Hungarian...

Shqiptarçë on Albanian means land of the black eagle, or something like that.
They are taking passports (before from Yugoslavia, now from Greece) so they can sell heroin on streets, and trade with human slaves - in EU and USA.

Well what you want to know is if 'estadounidense' was used longer than 50 years ago?

I just asked a 67 year old Chilean woman (my mom)and she said that as far as she can remember, estadounidense was the correct term in Chile before 1950.

Odd, she didn't ask me why I wanted to know...

Is it implying that just in English, and not in the other languages then?

You tell me; it's your point.

In school in Chile, I was taught that the correct term for US citizens is estadounidenses, and that the abbreviation is EEUU. Hope that helps.
So was my husband. I was taught this as well...be we aren't over 50 years old:)

But my inlaws are, and they back us up on this...

But Jocabia, even if suddenly this term appeared in Spanish 50 years ago out of no where...how would that make this term 'new'? It's new in English, but even 50 years old shouldn't make it 'new' in Spanish...(I'm not saying it's only 50 years old, it isn't...but anyway).

Logic is appreciated, flamming and insults are not. Where is the logic in your position Eutrusca. What is wrong with USian, logically?
Oh, GROAN! One ... more ... time!

It is not our name. We have been called Americans, by ourselves as well as almost ALL others, almost since the Nation was founded.

What part of this do you NOT understand??? :headbang:

I just asked a 67 year old Chilean woman (my mom)and she said that as far as she can remember, estadounidense was the correct term in Chile before 1950.

Odd, she didn't ask me why I wanted to know...

With all due respect, but who cares how are you calling Americans in Chile?

I just asked a 67 year old Chilean woman (my mom)and she said that as far as she can remember, estadounidense was the correct term in Chile before 1950.

Odd, she didn't ask me why I wanted to know...
It just sounds WRONG to say 'americano'...too informal...like gringo, or yanqui...and América...it just doesn't mean the US. América Latina, América del Sur, las Américas...

So was my husband. I was taught this as well...be we aren't over 50 years old:)

But my inlaws are, and they back us up on this...

But Jocabia, even if suddenly this term appeared in Spanish 50 years ago out of no where...how would that make this term 'new'? It's new in English, but even 50 years old shouldn't make it 'new' in Spanish...(I'm not saying it's only 50 years old, it isn't...but anyway).

Does your husband like his churros con manjar? Has he made sopaipillas for you yet?

It is simple - Brussels (EU) doesn't want Turks in union, as Anglosaxons doesn't want you!
Oh, but we want them, they're not bad people, just fat :D

Yes, we definitely opened a can of worms.
Nahh! It's just the NS General version of "good, clean fun!" :D

We may be talking at cross-purposes here. The thread in which he was the OP was locked. I was trying to give a reasonable response to his OP, but couldn't because the thread had been locked. Thus, the new thread. Make sense now??
no it doesn't.

You posted your response to the locked thread. I shall call this post "OP" for brevity's sake.

In the 3rd or 4th posts, Gift-of-God asked you some questions on your position. He used USian.

You went all uppity and never responded to his questions. When we asked you to answer his questions in this thread, you linked to OP.

With all due respect, but who cares how are you calling Americans in Chile?
Ay, if you don't understand the context because you haven't bothered to read, don't just jump in uninformed. He's talking to Jocabia about a specific enquiry Jocabia made.

With all due respect, but who cares how are you calling Americans in Chile?

Jocabia asked a question, and I was trying to give him/her an answer.

Does your husband like his churros con manjar? Has he made sopaipillas for you yet?
Do you think I'd stay with him if he hadn't? He makes me many dishes...porotos, lentejas, casuela, charqui kan[sp?], pan con chicharrones...and manjar...how I love manjar!!!!!

Oh, but we want them, they're not bad people, just fat :D

And they are having huge mustaches!

Heh, i thougt you're talking about Turks... Lol

Projecting now are we?
Nope. I was referring to you as well as several others on here.

In the words of that famous teacher from Canada: "Get over yourself!" :D

Ay, if you don't understand the context because you haven't bothered to read, don't just jump in uninformed. He's talking to Jocabia about a specific enquiry Jocabia made. Butt out unless you have something to add to that specific issue.

My bad!

The irony!
Learn a new word, Teach? :D

My bad!
Sorry, I was unecessarily hostile at the end...but you saw it before I edited it, hence this apology:)

Learn a new word? :D
Still smiley spamming?:D

Don't speak to me, Eut. I'm fed up with you.

Oh, GROAN! One ... more ... time!

It is not our name. We have been called Americans, by ourselves as well as almost ALL others, almost since the Nation was founded.

What part of this do you NOT understand??? :headbang:
The part where the language cannot evolve. Ever.

I mean, Romans are now called Italians. You don't hear them screaming about it.

Well, this has been fun. See you all in the morning.

The exact translation of estadosunidense is United Statesian. If you can be allowed to say US, instead of always typing out United States, then surely you can use USian.

Bit of a ways back, but exact translations don't always convey the intended meaning...

Well, this has been fun. See you all in the morning.

I agree. Time for food! Salut!

Sorry, I was unecessarily hostile at the end...but you saw it before I edited it, hence this apology:)

Apology accepted.

The part where the language cannot evolve. Ever.

I mean, Romans are now called Italians. You don't hear them screaming about it.

Actually, they are, but nobody else can understand them. *ducks for cover*

Well what you want to know is if 'estadounidense' was used longer than 50 years ago?

If it was common usage. I know that a person in the thread asked his mother, but I learned Spanish from a Chilean woman who is now about that age and she taught me Americano. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying I've never heard of it after studying and speaking Spanish with native speakers for 8 years.

If it was common usage. I know that a person in the thread asked his mother, but I learned Spanish from a Chilean woman who is now about that age and she taught me Americano. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying I've never heard of it after studying and speaking Spanish with native speakers for 8 years.

I think estadounidense is the correct term, while Americano and gringo are the commonly used terms. At least, that's been my experience.

By the way, if someone is interested, we have a lot of different names for the nationals of the USA. Nevertheless, "американцы" (Americans) is the only word that is used erm... seriously. "Штатовцы" (statesians), "штатники" (staters) are very rare, with a tinge of the 1980s slang. No one has ever thought of calling them "СШавцы" (USians) here.

Other names are plain derogatory. ;)

Bit of a ways back, but exact translations don't always convey the intended meaning...
Well, it's what it means. It isn't insulting, it's just the proper term for people from the US. It can also be translated as 'person from the US'.

So was my husband. I was taught this as well...be we aren't over 50 years old:)

But my inlaws are, and they back us up on this...

But Jocabia, even if suddenly this term appeared in Spanish 50 years ago out of no where...how would that make this term 'new'? It's new in English, but even 50 years old shouldn't make it 'new' in Spanish...(I'm not saying it's only 50 years old, it isn't...but anyway).

The point is that throughout the world it was accepted to call us Americans for about 200 years. You said, it was always United Statesian in other languages. If this is true, the evidence should be easy to find. That's the point.

I think herein lies the crux of the issue, my Canuckian friend. I believe a movement has grown outside the US to change the name of Americans to something else. Yes, it appears to be growing some steam (though it is not my experience that it is all that popular), but it's very much political. The problem is as Americans we chose a name and everyone on the planet accepted that name. Suddenly, a small portion of the population of the world decides our name for ourselves bothers them and then they treat it like we're egotistical because we're resistant to changing a name nobody had any problem with for 200 years.

Can I call India - Indians Dotheads so as not to confuse them with American Indians? Or maybe we should look to both of those groups and call them by the names they would prefer rather than making up a name particularly one that offends or annoys those we are referring to. That would be courteous, no? I find it amazing that you change our name and when we say we'd prefer you didn't we're egotistical. What could more egotistical than me thinking that what I want to call you is more important than what you want to be called?
Great post, but I'm betting she'll come up with at least five reasons why what you're saying is wrong, all of which will be illogical and nothing more than a thin veil to cover her real reason for using "USAian." Sigh.

I think estadounidense is the correct term, while Americano and gringo are the commonly used terms. At least, that's been my experience.

I never heard it before here. Much of my Spanish was talking to people who were relatively uneducated, but even in my Spanish education I never encountered it.

If it was common usage. I know that a person in the thread asked his mother, but I learned Spanish from a Chilean woman who is now about that age and she taught me Americano. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying I've never heard of it after studying and speaking Spanish with native speakers for 8 years.
Well, I've had a LOT of contact with Spanish speakers (some of it full body...wink wink), and 'americano' is much less in use than 'estadounidense'. HOWEVER, I have noticed that latinos living in the US tend to use 'americano' more than those living outside. Just as I would probably give in and call you American if I lived there. I'm not sure how to prove this to you, Jocabia...I don't have any old Spanish books with me, and you won't accept my textbooks of which the oldest is from 1968, all of which use estadounidense without exception.

Well, it's what it means. It isn't insulting, it's just the proper term for people from the US. It can also be translated as 'person from the US'.

Sure. If you're speaking Spanish. Not that we haven't take hundreds of words from other languages, but still...The acronym is also EEUU. Should we not be using USA?

The funniest thing is that Eutrusca is always pointing out that Muslims need to grow a thicker hide, but when he's called USian, he gets his panties in a bunch.
Son, you've never seen me truly upset or angry. Pray that you never do.

The point is that throughout the world it was accepted to call us Americans for about 200 years. You said, it was always United Statesian in other languages. No, I said that it was just as, if not more common to use United Statesian in other languages. Not that it was the only term...though it is the more formal term.

If this is true, the evidence should be easy to find. That's the point.
*shrugs* Well, I'm not going to worry about it too much...most of what I can find on the internet is not going to be old enough for you. But go ahead and doubt. You can ask every hispanic on board which term is the more correct one, but I still doubt you'd take such 'ancedotal' linguistic evidence.

I AM amazed that your teacher would neglect to ever show you this word however. I wonder if that is common inside the US?

Great post, but I'm betting she'll come up with at least five reasons why what you're saying is wrong, all of which will be illogical and nothing more than a thin veil to cover her real reason for using "USAian." Sigh.
Spammerific! Have you actually made a point in the last twenty posts you've made here?

I spammily thought not. I thought the peanut gallery was closed at this hour.

Well, I've had a LOT of contact with Spanish speakers (some of it full body...wink wink), and 'americano' is much less in use than 'estadounidense'. HOWEVER, I have noticed that latinos living in the US tend to use 'americano' more than those living outside. Just as I would probably give in and call you American if I lived there. I'm not sure how to prove this to you, Jocabia...I don't have any old Spanish books with me, and you won't accept my textbooks of which the oldest is from 1968, all of which use estadounidense without exception.

I'll accept that reasoning is a possibility. How you could prove it to me is by showing me references to the word in popular writings of prior to fifty years ago. Just point to where to see someone using it anywhere that is recorded. It would go a long way to supporting your point. Perhaps it was appeasement but I simply don't see anyone on the news, anyone that has spoken to me in any language, anyone anywhere except for here, protesting the term American. When Great Britain's politicians get up to talking about the war in Iraq, I don't hear them referencing the USian military. Nor in any other discussion of our troops, our actions, our people, etc.

Like I said, call us Jocabians and it's settled.

QED
"quod erat demonstrandum?"

And your point?

Which ceases to give you any idea at all of where anyone is from, and thus the entire thing becomes pedantics. :rolleyes:

Anyone want to start on making the word "the" mean something else, next? We'll eventually all have to take up Chinese (as per Firefly) becuase the english language will no longer communicate anything.
They're very good at pedantry: "That would depend upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is." Heh!

Perhaps it was appeasement but I simply don't see anyone on the news, anyone that has spoken to me in any language, anyone anywhere except for here, protesting the term American.
Hmmmm....I don't even think I have anything but contemporary literature in Spanish at home...but I will try to find you something. However, the term in Spanish was never a protest as far as I know. It just is. As your nation in Spanish is called Los Estados Unidos, and very rarely America (almost never in fact, unless preceded by Los Estados Unidos de), it makes sense that your nationality would reflect that. Estadounidense.

This is the point. The term "American" is not your term to use alone. It belongs to every single one of us who lives in the Americas.
Total, unadulterated bullshit.

No, I said that it was just as, if not more common to use United Statesian in other languages. Not that it was the only term...though it is the more formal term.

I don't mean ONLY, I mean ALWAYS. That means that while it will not be the only references found, it should be prevelant in writings throughout the history of the US.

*shrugs* Well, I'm not going to worry about it too much...most of what I can find on the internet is not going to be old enough for you. But go ahead and doubt. You can ask every hispanic on board which term is the more correct one, but I still doubt you'd take such 'ancedotal' linguistic evidence.

I AM amazed that your teacher would neglect to ever show you this word however. I wonder if that is common inside the US?
I told you I'm willing to go buy a book, but I need a better reference than simply an author. Reference any popular writing in the last two hundred years and I'll go find it. But please give me enough to not have to search through the whole thing.

No, I said that it was just as, if not more common to use United Statesian in other languages. Not that it was the only term...though it is the more formal term.

I AM amazed that your teacher would neglect to ever show you this word however. I wonder if that is common inside the US?

So how does one say United Statesian in spanish then?

Canadians come from Canadia. Canadans come from Canada.

Americans come from America. Americanians come from Americania.

Europeans come from Europea. Europes come from Europe. Europians come from Europia.


Words are funny.


"We'd like you to be the next president." "Of what?" "The United States." "United States of what?" "Of America." "Which America?" "North America."

Technically "Americans" include all those in north and south America. We're middle Americans, if you wanna get specific.

Hmmmm....I don't even think I have anything but contemporary literature in Spanish at home...but I will try to find you something. However, the term in Spanish was never a protest as far as I know. It just is. As your nation in Spanish is called Los Estados Unidos, and very rarely America (almost never in fact, unless preceded by Los Estados Unidos de), it makes sense that your nationality would reflect that. Estadounidense.

Yeah, that makes sense. I did always here it references as Los Estados Unidos, which I think is odd since there are other Estados Unidos nations.

Total, unadulterated bullshit.

How so? Just because they don't live in the United States of America doesn't mean they don't live in South America, and this is ignoring the fact that Canada is part of North America. The Americas. Plural. More than one.

Total, unadulterated bullshit.
And for your pointless interjections, and annoying lack of anything to say...IGNORE.

The point is that throughout the world it was accepted to call us Americans for about 200 years. You said, it was always United Statesian in other languages. If this is true, the evidence should be easy to find. That's the point.

The Oxford English Dictionary traces the use even further back than that -- to at least 1647.

That is almost as long as the word has been used to refer to people from the American contintents (1598).

I have yet to see why there is suddenly such confusion over the term that 350+ year usage is improper.

On the other hand, I should note that United Statesian appears in the OED to refer to citizens of the United States with a pedigree dating back to 1892 (with United Statesman as the prior usage dating to 1850).

It was asked if Americans found the term insulting. Many have answered that it is. Now they are being told you don't care if they find it insulting. Why ask in the first place?

Personally I don't find it insulting, but I do find it kind of annoying.

One can come up with lots of names of what one can call the citizens of first nations or indigneous peoples. Usually the answer is to call them by a name they prefer and do not find insulting. I'm not sure why the same courtesy should not be afforded to Americans.

No, I said that it was just as, if not more common to use United Statesian in other languages. Not that it was the only term...though it is the more formal term.
the key phrase here is "other languages". I would be willing to wager if you asked english speaking people. "What do you think of Americans?" They will respond w/ an answer refering to someone from the united states 90% of the time. Wiki had an interesting article about it, and one of the things it mentions is that this "movement" of people being upset about ppl from the US being called Americans started in Latin America... so i'm kinda not surprised you're on board w/ the USian shit. My main beef w/ USian is that someone did use it as a derogatory term and that was the first time i had ever seen it. So now i am adverse to it.


...
I AM amazed that your teacher would neglect to ever show you this word however. I wonder if that is common inside the US?
When i learned spanish from 93-95 we always learned americano or norteamericano. never that estadeunitdense or however it's spelt (i think they just like it cos it has the word dense in it)

And it's not my intent to insult by calling anyone a frenchified ass-******. If they choose to feel insulted when I call them that it's their choice, right?
OMG! ROFLMFAO!!!! Aaahahahahahahaha! OMG! :D

Oh, GROAN! One ... more ... time!

It is not our name. We have been called Americans, by ourselves as well as almost ALL others, almost since the Nation was founded.

What part of this do you NOT understand??? :headbang:

I know I left the thread, but... well it's so hard to stay away, y'know?

What you USian fans seem not to understnad is this: Continents and nation names are all convention. These conventions were started quite some time ago. When a buncha europeans made boats and sailed to find the East Indies - or the edge of the world - they instead found these other continents. What they named them, initially, was India, 'cuase they thought they'd made it all the way around. When they realised they were wrong, that kinda died out, other than calling native americans Indians still. But they named the place the americas... but since by that point they knew there were two large masses, it wasn't just "america" how some of you are taking it, but "North America" and "South America". (Central is sort of up for debate, but nobody calls it a continent.) I'd say it had a name before that, whatever the Native Americans called it, but they really had no concept of other continents, so they had no need for a name for the continent. Hence, when all those europeans made the conventions for continents, they eventually decided there were seven. Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, North America, Australia and Antarctica. (Sidenote: apparently they liked A's.) Changing that to referring to both Americas as one is just as silly as trying to change Asia and Euope into one. If you insist on "Eurasia" it's a landmass, not a continent. Don't ask me why they did it that way, they just did. I'm not going to argue whether they were right or not. But the fact is, they did it. Changing that requires a lot more than you all just arbitrarily deciding that because you can't figure out what nationality to own you get to completely ignore precident and make up whatever you please. Ultimately, you're just being flippant, and personally, I will start taking everything else you say less seriously becuase apparently you can't seperate reality from your dream world wherein you can control everything and flaunt convention without recourse.

Basically, you can try to change the continents, but... good luck. You can try to change their names, contents, shapes, sizes and whatever else, but they've been static for a couple hundred years, and I think you're presumptuous to try to "fix" a system that isn't broken. Finally, if you think it IS broken, you clearly don't understand it and need educating, and thinking that you know better than a couple hundred years of convention and wish to change everyone else in the world to suit your fancy is egotistical and somewhat niave. Just figure out what words you can use conventionally to convey your meaning, and stick with it... don't try to fix what ain't broken.

I don't mean ONLY, I mean ALWAYS. That means that while it will not be the only references found, it should be prevelant in writings throughout the history of the US. Ah...gotcha. I was sure you were meaning 'only'.

I told you I'm willing to go buy a book, but I need a better reference than simply an author. Reference any popular writing in the last two hundred years and I'll go find it. But please give me enough to not have to search through the whole thing.Alrighty then. If I don't find something in time to post, I'll TG you. Sound good?

Suddenly. That's the point. People were quite content to call us and us alone Americans a half century ago. Now you want to call the Kingdom of Sweden's people, Kindomians. The People's Republic of China, the PRians. India is a subcontinent and a country. People from the subcontinent are Indians. People from the country, dotheads. Wait, that's not how they use it? What do you mean they don't call themselves that? Why do you INSIST that i be courteous and give a rat's ass what people want to be called? We'll just make up terms and they will deal with it. Especially if they're those egotistical Americans who think they get to keep using the name the whole world has used for them for 200 years.
ROFLMAO! Man, I really LIKE you! :D

Total, unadulterated bullshit.

Sorry, but the usage of American to refer to one from the American continents predates its usage to refer to people from the United States.

In fact, the OED refers to the former as the primary meaning over the later.

It is a simple fact. It is the opposite of bullshit.

So how does one say United Statesian in spanish then?
Estadounidense.

Yes, well, I also have a continental identity. Even more so as an aboriginal person.
NOW who needs to "get over themselves?" :rolleyes:

When i learned spanish from 93-95 we always learned americano or norteamericano. never that estadeunitdense or however it's spelt (i think they just like it cos it has the word dense in it)

I learned estadounidense in Spanish, taking it in Michigan, it's what the books say. The only time we hear "norteamericano" is after "fútbol".

If it was common usage. I know that a person in the thread asked his mother, but I learned Spanish from a Chilean woman who is now about that age and she taught me Americano. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying I've never heard of it after studying and speaking Spanish with native speakers for 8 years.
Coloquially chances are you won't find the term. It's mostly used in writing and more formal speak, or when clarification would be needed.

Wait, wait, wait. Two American continents? You mean they both belong to the USA?
Of course! Didn't you get the memo??? :eek:

Frankly I have never heard anyone refer to Americans as USians, outside of this place. It just sounds plain stupid. Who comes up with this crap anyway??? And why would you be offended by being called something that makes no sense?

United States of America using America: 200 years.
Rest of the continent using America: 400 years.

pwned!
Bullshit.

Yeah, that makes sense. I did always here it references as Los Estados Unidos, which I think is odd since there are other Estados Unidos nations.
That is a good point...now I'm interested...perhaps there IS a history behind the word? I know it was in use for a long time...but perhaps it was originally intended to separate the Americas from the USA? But when....I know Bolivar used estadounidense...I've read it damnit...and there weren't major tensions between the US and Latin America at the time...maybe it wasn't entirely political? Who knows...I shall search.

Which is used in how many schools?
Only Canadian ones, but they don't count. :p

I know I left the thread, but... well it's so hard to stay away, y'know?

What you USian fans seem not to understnad is this: Continents and nation names are all convention. These conventions were started quite some time ago. When a buncha europeans made boats and sailed to find the East Indies - or the edge of the world - they instead found these other continents. What they named them, initially, was India, 'cuase they thought they'd made it all the way around. When they realised they were wrong, that kinda died out, other than calling native americans Indians still. But they named the place the americas... but since by that point they knew there were two large masses, it wasn't just "america" how some of you are taking it, but "North America" and "South America". (Central is sort of up for debate, but nobody calls it a continent.) I'd say it had a name before that, whatever the Native Americans called it, but they really had no concept of other continents, so they had no need for a name for the continent. Hence, when all those europeans made the conventions for continents, they eventually decided there were seven. Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, North America, Australia and Antarctica. (Sidenote: apparently they liked A's.) Changing that to referring to both Americas as one is just as silly as trying to change Asia and Euope into one. If you insist on "Eurasia" it's a landmass, not a continent. Don't ask me why they did it that way, they just did. I'm not going to argue whether they were right or not. But the fact is, they did it. Changing that requires a lot more than you all just arbitrarily deciding that because you can't figure out what nationality to own you get to completely ignore precident and make up whatever you please. Ultimately, you're just being flippant, and personally, I will start taking everything else you say less seriously becuase apparently you can't seperate reality from your dream world wherein you can control everything and flaunt convention without recourse.

Basically, you can try to change the continents, but... good luck. You can try to change their names, contents, shapes, sizes and whatever else, but they've been static for a couple hundred years, and I think you're presumptuous to try to "fix" a system that isn't broken. Finally, if you think it IS broken, you clearly don't understand it and need educating, and thinking that you know better than a couple hundred years of convention and wish to change everyone else in the world to suit your fancy is egotistical and somewhat niave. Just figure out what words you can use conventionally to convey your meaning, and stick with it... don't try to fix what ain't broken.

On the subject of Americans (Middle Americans) changing things to fit their perspective: It's always been that way. When middle Americans made maps, they made the USA huge and way out of proportion, almost dwarfing all of Europe and Africa put together. We know this to be a false image, as Africa alone pretty much covers the entire USA.

...One can come up with lots of names of what one can call the citizens of first nations or indigneous peoples. Usually the answer is to call them by a name they prefer and do not find insulting. I'm not sure why the same courtesy should not be afforded to Americans.
agreed. I would also like to stipulate that if someone called me a USian in RL i would probably hit them. Definitely not talk to them anymore.

One can come up with lots of names of what one can call the citizens of first nations or indigneous peoples. Usually the answer is to call them by a name they prefer and do not find insulting. I'm not sure why the same courtesy should not be afforded to Americans.
Only because the ones who actually ARE offended can't seem to ask nicely....:D

But seriously...I don't get the huge dealio with it.

Coloquially chances are you won't find the term. It's mostly used in writing and more formal speak, or when clarification would be needed.

Well, I used to read in Spanish fairly often, but again, I know that my experiences aren't EVERYTHING. That's why I asking to be educated. I've softened my position a bit, because it does seem that there is validity to the point, but I can't change my position on the term's history unless I have better evidence.

I have yet to see why there is suddenly such confusion over the term that 350+ year usage is improper.

On the other hand, I should note that United Statesian appears in the OED to refer to citizens of the United States with a pedigree dating back to 1892 (with United Statesman as the prior usage dating to 1850).

It was asked if Americans found the term insulting. Many have answered that it is. Now they are being told you don't care if they find it insulting. Why ask in the first place?

Personally I don't find it insulting, but I do find it kind of annoying.

One can come up with lots of names of what one can call the citizens of first nations or indigneous peoples. Usually the answer is to call them by a name they prefer and do not find insulting. I'm not sure why the same courtesy should not be afforded to Americans.

We're saved! Cat-Tribe is here! :p

Bullshit.

-_- Even if you're right, you're making yourself look bad by not backing up your "Bullshit"s with arguments. Please do so.

Estadounidense actually sounds pretty good. It's too bad the English translation doesn't sound as nicely.

And USian is too awkward. Having vowel sounds ramming together all over the place tends to sound badly (yoo-ess and ee-an). I doubt that something like that would be picked up easily.

I learned estadounidense in Spanish, taking it in Michigan, it's what the books say. The only time we hear "norteamericano" is after "fútbol".

when?

Only because the ones who actually ARE offended can't seem to ask nicely....:D

But seriously...I don't get the huge dealio with it.

Asians are from Asia.

USians are from... USia? No. USA is an abbreviation, so it should not be the prefix to which the suffix of the people who live in the country are related to. United Statesian is more grammatically correct, but it's annoying to say. Middle American is easier and is grammatically and geographically correct.

Ah...gotcha. I was sure you were meaning 'only'.

Alrighty then. If I don't find something in time to post, I'll TG you. Sound good?

Sounds great.

By the way, from my girlfriend (I changed the AIM names).

Jocabia (4:18:40 PM): hey, I have a question for you
Jocabia (4:18:48 PM): what do you call a person from the US in Spanish?
Cathy (4:19:47 PM): estadounidense
Cathy (4:20:19 PM): americana
Cathy (4:21:27 PM): gringo
Cathy (4:21:28 PM): it depends
Jocabia (4:22:44 PM): on what?
Cathy (4:23:30 PM): well the first one is probably for more formal things, newspaper maybe, the other two are more informal, what people use in everyday language
Cathy (4:23:38 PM): there's also norteamericana
Cathy (4:23:57 PM): why do you ask?

She is a teacher and studied Spanish in college including living in a couple of Spanish-speaking countries.

I also love when people use the feminine form of words, because in the US we have such a tendency to default to the masculine form. And now you know why I love her.

the key phrase here is "other languages". I would be willing to wager if you asked english speaking people. "What do you think of Americans?" They will respond w/ an answer refering to someone from the united states 90% of the time. Wiki had an interesting article about it, and one of the things it mentions is that this "movement" of people being upset about ppl from the US being called Americans started in Latin America... so i'm kinda not surprised you're on board w/ the USian shit. My main beef w/ USian is that someone did use it as a derogatory term and that was the first time i had ever seen it. So now i am adverse to it. What I'm trying to point out to you with examples from other languages, is that as a trilingual person, my motivation for using USian is not part of whatever movement you are referring to, but rather I am using a useful word from another language that simply makes sense to me, and other people who speak Spanish. If I can say it in Spanish, why can't I say it in English? Seriously? Why? It makes a lot of sense in the one language...why wouldn't it work in English? Only because people object to it for very vague reasons. No one is trying to force you to call yourself something different. I don't even call you USians most of the time...just when I'm in a rush, and only in writing. To English speakers, "American" means you, people from the US. To those of us who speak English, but also speak other languages, the term is not as precise, as we use that term to refer to other things, and a specific term to refer to you.

When i learned spanish from 93-95 we always learned americano or norteamericano. Norteamericano? To mean US citizen? That makes no sense. That refers to Canadians and Mexicans (and possibly 'Central Americans' as well). never that estadeunitdense or however it's spelt (i think they just like it cos it has the word dense in it)
Now this is interesting...it is just inside the US that estadounidense isn't taught? I wonder why this decision was made...

If Brazillians should be called Americans, then why not reclassify French people from Europeans to Eurasians or Eurasiafrucans. The Americas are not one continent. It's a huge landmass consisting of two seperate continents, NORTH America(hence why Canadians are called North Americans and not simply Americans) and South America. Face it. Most of the world calls citizens of the US Americans. It's easier than USians. If we are going to rename things because a small minority calls it something else, then why not rename the West "Super-evil-infidel-place". You know, to satisfy a very small minority within Europe, Africa, and Asia that likes killing people in the name of Allah. I mean small. Less than 1% small. Why not rename Christianty "persecution religion thingy". After all, within every once-oppressed group of people, there are some that can't get over what happened before they were born. Why not go back to calling African Americans negroes, the spanish word for black? After all, a very small, very racist minority of white people want it that way.

USian is annoying. I'm not going to change what I call Americans just to please a small group of internet nerds. I wonder how many people here got wedgies and swirlies from teachers, freshmen, and chess clubs.
ROFLMFAO!!! OMG!! You win the thread! :D

Only because the ones who actually ARE offended can't seem to ask nicely....:D

But seriously...I don't get the huge dealio with it.

We're asking nicely.

Then it's quite allright to use the term USian. Because that's the consensus.
You can't possibly be that intellectually numb! Can you? :eek:

What I'm trying to point out to you with examples from other languages, is that as a trilingual person, my motivation for using USian is not part of whatever movement you are referring to, but rather I am using a useful word from another language that simply makes sense to me, and other people who speak Spanish. If I can say it in Spanish, why can't I say it in English?

Because in Spanish, it's a graceful and legitimate word.

In English, it's an acronym with a suffix attached to it and it's an ugly non-word.

Now this is interesting...it is just inside the US that estadounidense isn't taught? I wonder why this decision was made...

...must be a grand conspiracy. ;)

Because in Spanish, it's a graceful and legitimate word.

In English, it's an acronym with a suffix attached to it and it's an ugly non-word.



...must be a grand conspiracy. ;)

I thought we settled on Jocabian. It's a beautiful word associated with a beautiful person. It's neutral. And, well, it would bring a smile to a dying little person's face. (Because I agree to tell him a joke if you make the new term Jocabians).

See those bars at the top of the page. It is a poll. It establishes that here, on NS general, by consensus, USian is not insulting.

However you seem to think it is still insulting. So you want to eat your consensus and have it too. What was that about logic a while back?
You are ... really strange! You know perfectly well that any bogus "poll" on some random Internet forum is insufficient to establish sufficent "consensus" to change the mind of a pissant, much less sufficient to change a long-standing, self-chosen, widely accepted name for a nation's people.

In the words of a well-known Canadian teacher: "Get over yourself."

It was asked if Americans found the term insulting. Many have answered that it is. Now they are being told you don't care if they find it insulting. Why ask in the first place?

Well I asked in the first place. What I asked was if they found it insulting and if so, why? So far we have had some say it is insulting and only one, SB, who gave a reason. The poll shows that the majority of NS Generalites either do not find insulting, or prefer chocolate hobnobs (Which effectively says they don't care.) Thus it seems reasonable, in the absence of any effective reason why we should not, to continue using it. (SB, I am sorry, but it has nothing to do with leetspeak, which I also thoroughly detest, for me. Just because it uses capitals does not make it leet.) I am willing to use US citizen, when I know that the person concerned is a citizen of the US. USian is, like "american" rather broader than this. There are plenty of USA residents who cal themselves "Americans" but are not citizens.

Alright, well, I was going to read through this whole thing, but I stopped here. People, this is ridiculous.

At the time of its founding, the US was the only independent conglomeration of states or state-like groups in both American continents. Hence it was the United States of America - it was the only group of united states in America. Pretty simple. Yeah, there are other nations on the continents now, but they weren't there before. Further, the other inhabitants at the time were either indigenous or colonial citizens of European powers. So they referred to themselves by their tribal names or by their European nations of origin. The US could have been called Columbia, I suppose, but there'd have been a stink from Colombians about that too.

You're effectively asking a nation of nearly 300 million people to change its name on the basis of your own misplaced offense at Americans calling themselves thus. Call us Yanks if you want, USians, Staters, arrogant bastards, whatever. But the nation is the United States of America, and its inhabitants are Americans. They were called that first, so they get bragging rights. Suck it up.

I'm going to skip reading everything else to say I agree with this.

By the way, the map posted? It had North and South America printed on the Continents.

The problem is, "America" as in referring to the country, is a political name. "America" Referring to the continent, is geographical. Also, if we are going to refer to everyone living on the continent as "American" Then "USians" still have a right to be called "American". So everyones arguements are point moot.

I think, that the reason people say "USian" is for one of two reasons:
A)They are bad, ignorant, lazy spellers. Or,
B)It is because of this "Hate US" phase that the world is going through. They just want to strip away all American culture, American politics, and stuff.

Also, if you said "I'm an American", and some one responded "Oh, what sate do you live in?" And you scoff and say "State? I'm from Brazil! Idiot! Can't you tell?" that would be pretty confusing. So, unless the American continent unifies into one political entity, We should refer to people from US as Americans, Brazil as Brazilians, Argentina as Argentinians, so on and so forth.

Sounds great.

By the way, from my girlfriend (I changed the AIM names).

See! Listen to your girlfriend! The more 'proper' term is estadounidense:) But check the Real Academia website...it claims to be the 'proper Spanish' and they try to be the standard for Spanish around the world, though Latin America tends to scoff at them. http://www.rae.es/

On the top left, the very first menu item gets you do a dictionary. The first empty box underneath the heading allows you to search a dictionary. Look up estadounidense, then americano.. Estadounidense is the precise word for US citizens. Americano can be used, but is less precise as it also refers to other things. I know it's not 'old' and I'm still looking, but it is an accepted part of the language, and absent of political connotation in Spanish.

interesting post. ive lived roughly half my life in the United States of America and the other half in The Dominion of Canada, so i like to think im pretty neutral in this debate. for one thing, i cant quite understand why citizens of another country would want to be referred to as "Americans." ive always been under the impression that the name has a somewhat negative connotation in most of the world, and im fairly certain it bears that connotation in many of the countries in america the continent(s).

firstly, i dont think its really a big deal that the very letters of the word convey its exact meaning. english is a language invented by peasants to be transactionally feasible. as there are many contradictions, exceptions and ambigueties in the english language, i dont see the political importance of this one. english has always been a language where you say the syllables and the other person knows what you mean so everybody's happy. if i say that for a long period in my life that i was an american, you would know what i mean, right?

and another thing. im fairly certain that no one would object to me referring to the country thats south of canada and north of mexico as being the "USA." but what about the Union of South Africa? yes, i looked it up and that is the full name of the southernmost nation in africa. isnt it an injustice that that certain country lead by george bush is going on using an abbreviation of its name which could be applied to another country in the world? nope. the fact is that no one thinks im talking about south africa when i say USA because no one calls it that. and because the language usage works and no one gets confused, no one cares to change it.

the same is true for the common usage of "american." yes, technically, you could refer to a person from brazil, mexico, or even canada as an american, but the fact is we dont. why should we change it? anyone who sat through elementary school geography class knows what continent your country is on. you dont have to tell them.

i guess the conclusion is, no, i wouldnt be offended if someone called me a "USian" any more than i would be than if someone called me an american. i would, however, think the person who called me that to be extremely silly.

You are ... really strange! You know perfectly well that any bogus "poll" on some random Internet forum is insufficient to establish sufficent "consensus" to change the mind of a pissant, much less sufficient to change a long-standing, self-chosen, widely accepted name for a nation's people.

In the words of a well-known Canadian teacher: "Get over yourself."

It is sufficient to indicate the consensus on this forum. That is all I wanted to know. Apart that is, from your reasons for finding USian offensive, which are still not forthcoming.

but since by that point they knew there were two large masses, it wasn't just "america" how some of you are taking it, but "North America" and "South America".
Please find me a single source of information that the names North America and South America were used before America.

The first documented use of America to describe the continent was in 1507.

Basically, you can try to change the continents, but... good luck. You can try to change their names, contents, shapes, sizes and whatever else, but they've been static for a couple hundred years,
200 years ago even the USA used America to refer to the continent. That's why it's called United States of America and not North America. It would be stupid to have given it a name that basically says "united states of something that doesn't exist".

The use of North America and South America is even newer than the USA's independence. Who is changing the continents?

We're asking nicely.
You're offended? I thought you stated a number of times that you weren't.

You can't possibly be that intellectually numb! Can you? :eek:
Nice flame! :rolleyes:
Now look at the poll. You were saying?

Because in Spanish, it's a graceful and legitimate word.

In English, it's an acronym with a suffix attached to it and it's an ugly non-word.

So if I say, "United Statesian" is that okay, as a translation not using an acronym? IT's still not as sexy, but for sexy, I go to Spanish anyway..."y te digo que quiero que me bese aquí, y por aquí..."

Blast whomever it was that came up with the term USian... it's too muhc like my seperatly made term USAian which I use to describe peopel from USA as has probobly been mentioned there's rather a lot of American who live outside the US.

I came to mine by sticking "ian" on the end of the country name and then abbriviating it. But now it seems other have had similar ideas and used it as a more derogatary term... that or just some USAians are overly sensitive.

You're offended? I thought you stated a number of times that you weren't.

I'm not. But I'm asking nicely.

...must be a grand conspiracy. ;)
Well, it doesn't seem to be an across the board conspiracy, because we've already had one USian say he learned estadounidense...

.. If I can say it in Spanish, why can't I say it in English? Seriously? Why?
1. because it doesn't sound as good in english as it does in spanish. Some things just don't translate well.
2. i have seen it used too much as a derogatory term, and i don't like it.
3. Me being american, i would rather be called american v. usian. You don't see me getting away w/ calling you a canuck-fuck do you?

for the rest, my responses are in bold.
It makes a lot of sense in the one language...why wouldn't it work in English? (Same reason chinese translations don't work well in english. The other day my g/f goes, "so i don't put them in water" in reference to getting someone in trouble.) Only because people object to it for very vague reasons. (i think we have stipulated good reasons why we don't like it) No one is trying to force you to call yourself something different. (no, but they are trying to force us to accept what they want to call us) I don't even call you USians most of the time...just when I'm in a rush, and only in writing. (exactly, this term is ONLY used in writing, and not used all the time. C'mon, if you can type fast how much harder is it to type american v usian? a millisecond?) To English speakers, "American" means you, people from the US. To those of us who speak English, but also speak other languages, the term is not as precise, as we use that term to refert to other things, and a specific term to refer to you.(It's all about context, and that's why i said 90% instead of a 100. Sure, there are some who will think of other nations in the Americas. And there are definitely different contexts to where you would refer to ppl not of the use as Americans, but most of the time, you say American, ppl think USA. Also, how many things can a horse refer to? two that i know of off the top of my head. why can't American refer to multiple things as well?)
...

I thought we settled on Jocabian. It's a beautiful word associated with a beautiful person. It's neutral. And, well, it would bring a smile to a dying little person's face. (Because I agree to tell him a joke if you make the new term Jocabians).

Jocabian is OK with me.

Better than "USian," that's for sure.

And Sinuhue, if you really want to use that lovely Spanish term, then by all means refer to us as "estadounidense" and not "USian."

Bullshit.
Take it up with Martin Waldseemüller.

Well, it doesn't seem to be an across the board conspiracy, because we've already had one USian say he learned estadounidense...

Maybe MI is just that close to Canada? Or maybe it's because our teacher is from Argentina...*shrug*

I don't care what anyone calls me... just don't call me late for dinner.

hehe

If people don't like Americans (hehe) to refer to themselves as Americans, then USians is fine with me.

I'm not. But I'm asking nicely.And yet, if you are not insulted, then what is the reason I should stop using this term? I still will not be using the term "American" and sorry, Jocabian is still not widely used enough to be of us so...

You still can't read can you. Most of the world does not call USians Americans. Only the English speaking world does that. I don't care what you call yourselves, I wanted to find out why calling you USians was insulting, if it was. As no answer has been forthcoming to this I will continue calling you USians.

Oh and Brazil is in the Americas, so Brazilians are Americans as much as USians are. Or are you going to start saying North Americans every time you want to refer to the USians, in which case you will only have to answer to the Canadians ansd Mexicans.

The rest is uncalled for and childish as you well know. Resorting to insult is the tool of the incompetent. Take some good advice and don't try to copy Eutrusca.
For someone who accuses others of being unable to read, you sure do seem to have the self-same problem. At the very least, I have tried to get across to you no less than three times why using that bogus term is insulting. That you still fail to acknowledge that I have done so can only be the result of one of three things:

1. You refuse to read the posts where I do so.

2. You refuse to acknowledge that I have done so, even after reading the posts.

3. You can't read.

Thake your pick.

So if I say, "United Statesian" is that okay, as a translation not using an acronym?

Yes.

And I think it's better than "United Statesmen," which sounds like an after-hours club for politicians.

There are plenty of USA residents who cal themselves "Americans" but are not citizens.
i'm gonna call bullshit on this one. All the internationals i know don't call themselves Americans. (my g/f included)

If they do, it's MO that they're trying to hide that they're not a citizen.

And Sinuhue, if you really want to use that lovely Spanish term, then by all means refer to us as "estadounidense" and not "USian."
Alright, but I don't want to hear a single person bitching that I'm not speaking English.

Estadounidense it is. From hence forth on this forum, I will only refer to you people as citizens of the US, people of the US, or estadounidense(s). When people want to know why, I'll direct them to this post.

Well I asked in the first place. What I asked was if they found it insulting and if so, why? So far we have had some say it is insulting and only one, SB, who gave a reason. The poll shows that the majority of NS Generalites either do not find insulting, or prefer chocolate hobnobs (Which effectively says they don't care.) Thus it seems reasonable, in the absence of any effective reason why we should not, to continue using it. (SB, I am sorry, but it has nothing to do with leetspeak, which I also thoroughly detest, for me. Just because it uses capitals does not make it leet.) I am willing to use US citizen, when I know that the person concerned is a citizen of the US. USian is, like "american" rather broader than this. There are plenty of USA residents who cal themselves "Americans" but are not citizens.

Your poll is far from convincing evidence. Among other things it doesn't distinguish between those from the US and those that are not.

And, if I didn't make it clear earlier, USian does not appear in the OED.

You have yet to explain why you cannot use the word that Americans prefer to be called and is well established in the English language, but must rather make up a word that at least some find insulting.



Over 50 people have voted that it is insulting. Yet you dismiss them with the back of your hand?

Are you of the similar opinion that as long as a majority of the rest of us don't find the term "redskins" offensive that no Native American should object to it?

I'm going to skip reading everything else to say I agree with this.

By the way, the map posted? It had North and South America printed on the Continents.
No one said North America and South America are not used, but it said America in big, bold letters on the top, meaning that word is used to encompass both landmasses.

Yes.

And I think it's better than "United Statesmen," which sounds like an after-hours club for politicians.
Seriously? I can use that one too? Then people won't bitch about me not speaking English...so squash that last post. I'll use United Statesians from now on. Problem solved (though come ON! The logical shortening of that is USian....sheesh!). And no getting your panties in a bunch when I say this, okay??

Edit: This being 'United Statesian'.

Eut: If you're going to argue that you should call USians Americans because that's what they choose to call yourself, you'd better drop Germany, China, Japan, French, Spanish, Italian and so on in your conversation, and refer to Deutschland, Zhongguo, Nihon, français, español, italiano, &c. instead. Semplicità.
So now not only should I abandon the name my Country has held exclusive right to for over 200 years, but I have to abandon my language too? Fascinating. :rolleyes:

I forget where it was in the thread but someone made the claim that the term "United States of" is a reference to the form of government. Exactly what sort of government is a "United States"?

Again, "America" isn't the noun in the phrase "United States of America" it's part of a presposition to denote the location of the States. The "States" are the key thing word in the phrase, not "America".

Alright, but I don't want to hear a single person bitching that I'm not speaking English.

Estadounidense it is. From hence forth on this forum, I will only refer to you people as citizens of the US, people of the US, or estadounidense(s). When people want to know why, I'll direct them to this post.

Thanks!

But unfortunately you'll hear [other] people bitching about not speaking English anyway. We don't have an official language, but they'll bitch about it. Can't win 'em all. :fluffle:

Thanks!

But unfortunately you'll hear [other] people bitching about not speaking English anyway. We don't have an official language, but they'll bitch about it. Can't win 'em all. :fluffle:
Oh, I'm sure Eut will still make shit up about me considering you to be nonhuman. When I ask you to dog me, you know I'm not actually calling you a canine, right?:D

Ditto. You say American, I say USian. It's not as clever as tomato and tomahto...but it'll do.
Anyone who uses the term "USian" is not as clever as a tomato either.

Oh, I'm sure Eut will still make shit up about me considering you to be nonhuman.

Whenever people give you a hard time tell them you are calling them Estadounidense while typing topless. They'll forget why they were mad.

Or refer to all of us as Jocabians. You have my permission.

Alright, but I don't want to hear a single person bitching that I'm not speaking English.

Estadounidense it is. From hence forth on this forum, I will only refer to you people as citizens of the US, people of the US, or estadounidense(s). When people want to know why, I'll direct them to this post.

At least it doesn't sound dorky like "USian". Although, I bet some "estadounidenses" will object to the last 5-6 letters of that word. ;)

So now not only should I abandon the name my Country has held exclusive right to for over 200 years, but I have to abandon my language too? Fascinating. :rolleyes:

Come now.

The people from the USA have NEVER had "exclusive right" to the name American.

I already have noted that the OED traces the use of the word to refer to someone from the Americas back to before its use to refer to someone from the colonies/USA.

I'm not keen on USian either, but we need not resort to pure fiction in order to claim offense.

Oh, I'm sure Eut will still make shit up about me considering you to be nonhuman.

Well, he already knows I'm a Californian. :) But we have an understanding, whereas you two continue to growl at each other.

When I ask you to dog me, you know I'm not actually calling you a canine, right?:D

...that depends on where you want me to dog you.

I don't think the term "USian" is insulting in and of itself. If you want to call me that, go right ahead. I will understand what you mean, and as long as you don't mean it to be insulting, I won't take it that way. *shrug*
But on here, they almost invariably do mean it as an insult, regardless of how they attempt to paper over it.

...that depends on where you want me to dog you.
You know where.

Spin off of a spin off.

Is the term USian insulting?

It appears that some members of that nation that is a union of states in the Americas (actually only one of many considering the number of federations in the Americas) that is commonly called the USA are objecting to being called USians. They find it insulting apparently (at least one does)

As a resident in another country in the Americas I have a problem describing citizens of the USA as Americans. There were, in 2000 some 831 million people living in the Americas. Why should the adjective American be reserved for only 282 million of these. That is wrong. It would be like claiming that the adjective European can only be used to describe Germans.

So what should the citizens of the USA be called if they do not like the term USian?

I really could care less what the EUnuchs, The people from the insignificant
land mass north of us or the 3rd world shit holes to the south have to say.

Well, he already knows I'm a Californian. :) But we have an understanding, whereas you two continue to growl at each other.



...that depends on where you want me to dog you.

You say "some people will bitch". She says "when I ask you not to dog me". Now you say "you two continue to growl". This is an amazing line. I wonder how many more related words you guys can slip into the conversation. I think it's innocent, but perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree.

I really could care what the EUnuchs, The people from the insignificant
land mass north of us or the 3rd world shit holes to the south have to say.
I guess that's a vote for USian then.

lol wow this is still going eh?

I asked my staunchly conservative Republican boss (quite a nationalist) and coworkers if they were offended by being called USians and they looked at me funny and and asked what it was supposed to mean.. lol. I told them that on an international forum, some people use it to refer to US citizens instead of the term Americans which some feel is too vague since it can also be used to describe someone from any other country in the Americas, and they all laughed and said although it's a silly term in their eyes that it was anything but offensive, because after all it is merely a descriptive abbreviation.

I know there is a small minority of you who are offended by the term for some reason, I will not be obliging you by changing the words I wish to use just because you are offended by it as I came up with the term myself (before I ever saw anyone else use it) as a quick way of being precise about national identity so as not to co-opt a word that was already used to describe someone from the Americas in general. Plus Being a Usian myself, you can't say I am using it to put US citizens down because that would include me so it would make no sense at all. Just like I can call my fellow caucasians "cracker" :p

@Michaz - where did you first see USian used derogatorily?

Also I noticed nobody responded to this yet:

Sorry, but the usage of American to refer to one from the American continents predates its usage to refer to people from the United States.

In fact, the OED refers to the former as the primary meaning over the later.

It is a simple fact. It is the opposite of bullshit.


*waits for Eut to rolls his eyes or make a condescending "joke" while avoiding real debate us usual*

Would you like to actually post something, or are you just the official cheerleader of this thread, reposting other's ideas in order to add in smiley faces and make trite comments?
Unfortunately for you, I am currently immune to insults and flaming. Rave on, Teach! :)

But on here, they almost invariably do mean it as an insult, regardless of how they attempt to paper over it.
Ahh, but you're so cute when you're angry. :p

I really could care less what the EUnuchs, The people from the insignificant
land mass north of us or the 3rd world shit holes to the south have to say.

You just provided an excellent way to guarantee people will not take you seriously. This also qualifies as trolling. Everyone welcomes input when one puts a little more effort into the post than just coming up with less than clever insults of most of the planet.

...that depends on where you want me to dog you.

probably the same place where she wanted to be kissed... well, if babelfish was correct :P

*snip* So I get to whisper USian in your ear, and you won't kick me out of bed??? See that, Santa Barbara! See!

@Michaz - where did you first see USian used derogatorily?

i'll hafta find it. it was about 3 months or so ago.


*edit*
and since this thread has been bandying the word about... it's gonna be more difficult :P

So I get to whisper USian in your ear, and you won't kick me out of bed??? See that, Santa Barbara! See!

You can call me an USian pig-dog snot-vulture for all I care. :fluffle:

Unfortunately for you, I am currently immune to insults and flaming. Rave on, Teach! :)
Really? You seem to dishing them out in this thread uncontrollably.

Frankly, I've never heard the term "usian" outside of this board.
Me either, but some on here sure are obsessed with it. I really do question their motives, since they ( hopefully ) by now understand that it's not a term most Americans have any affection for. I still maintain that the only reason they're trying to foist it off on people is that they view it as some sort of derogation of Americans.

You know where.

I just like to hear it.

Woof.

You just provided an excellent way to guarantee people will not take you seriously. This also qualifies as trolling. Everyone welcomes input when one puts a little more effort into the post than just coming up with less than clever insults of most of the planet.

Is that suppose to hurt my feelings little girl. I could care less what people who would argue something so ridiculous think about me.

Yes.

And I think it's better than "United Statesmen," which sounds like an after-hours club for politicians.
How about UnitedStatesPeople? What does that sound like?

i'll hafta find it. it was about 3 months or so ago.

ok, well don't go thru too much trouble... I thought you meant today or in this thread.

I've used the word for a couple of years now I think. I'll also switch it up with US citizen or whatever, but personally I, as a USian, have felt uncomfortable with the word "American" to mean someone from the United States ever since I put a little thought into that meaning. <- damn, that is poorly worded isn't it?

How about UnitedStatesPeople? What does that sound like?

If that was three words, it would be acceptable.

I support the space bar.

Is that suppose to hurt my feelings little girl. I could care less what people who would argue something so ridiculous think about me.

I'm curious. Who twisted your arm and forced you into the thread?

Also -
Knock, Knock
Who's there?
Reported.
Reported who?
Reported Freakyjsin

Try posting without flaming. It does not help you point.

ok, well don't go thru too much trouble... I thought you meant today or in this thread.

I've used the word for a couple of years now I think. I'll also switch it up with US citizen or whatever, but personally I, as a USian, have felt uncomfortable with the word "American" to mean someone from the United Stated ever since I put a little thought into that meaning. <- damn, that is poorly worded isn't it?

i prefer US citizen. And in most contexts, i think that American clearly defines a citizen of the US.

Can we finally be worn down over this word? After ONLY 61 pages? AB, look what you did...this thread got more hits than any of our sex threads did...priorities people!

Are you actually going to respond to any of our logical counter-arguments, or have we discovered Neo Rogolia's puppetmaster?
When I see any "logical counter-arguments" I just might. Until then, no.

Me either, but some on here sure are obsessed with it. I really do question their motives, since they ( hopefully ) by now understand that it's not a term most Americans have any affection for. I still maintain that the only reason they're trying to foist it off on people is that they view it as some sort of derogation of Americans.
And a fine maintenance it is! I personally mean no insult when I write ewseean. It is but lazyness on my behalf. I will now start lobbying for keyboards to be fitted with a shortcut key for americanian.

So I get to whisper USian in your ear, and you won't kick me out of bed??? See that, Santa Barbara! See!

Beds are overrated anyway. Getting on all fours on the beach is much better.
Woof.

Beds are overrated anyway. Getting on all fours on the beach is much better.
Woof.
*pants*

I just cannot believe that this topic has amassed 61 pages and over 900 posts. Just how important is this?

I really don't think that the people of the world will be calling Americans......."Usians" anytime soon. :p

Hooray for the closed mind!
Hardly. And thank you for demonstrating your true motiviations yet again.

Whee! I finally read the whole thread!


Eut: If you're going to argue that you should call USians Americans because that's what they choose to call yourself, you'd better drop Germany, China, Japan, French, Spanish, Italian and so on in your conversation, and refer to Deutschland, Zhongguo, Nihon, français, español, italiano, &c. instead. Semplicità.

How about this. I will refer to those countries as such in their native languages. Likewise, I'd like to be called American in English. What is said in other languages, I really don't care. However, there's no need for a literal translation when there's already a word for it. Those of you who need clarification should refer to context.

Why would you want to have a continental identity anyways? It doesn't mean anything. Call yourself Americans, South Americans, or whatever. Just don't push your qualms on to us. Because guess what. Americans are Americans, too.

I really don't think that the people of the world will be calling Americans......."Usians" anytime soon. :p
Millions already do. Just not in English, if they even speak it at all.

Hardly. And thank you for demonstrating your true motiviations yet again.

Actually, she did demonstrate her true motivations and they have nothing to do with closed minds. Just look at the last couple of pages. ;)

I just cannot believe that this topic has amassed 61 pages and over 900 posts. Just how important is this?

I really don't think that the people of the world will be calling Americans......."Usians" anytime soon. :p

Canuck! You took me off your sig, why?!

I'm afraid to leave work. At the rate this thread's grown, it will be 90 pages by the time I get home! :p

Whee! I finally read the whole thread! Good god...why on earth would you do that?

Beds are overrated anyway. Getting on all fours on the beach is much better.
Woof.
Getting sand in discrete places makes whoopee on the beaches overrated. :p

*pants*

*removes pants*

*drools*

Actually, she did demonstrate her true motivations and they have nothing to do with closed minds. Just look at the last couple of pages. ;)
Sheesh...is he still trying to get my attention? If you'd stop quoting him, I could drown him out completely....

Getting sand in discrete places makes whoopee on the beaches overrated. :p
Yes, you need to be especially careful not to let anything dangle in the sand...but we ARE talking 'safe' sex after all:D

Sheesh...is he still trying to get my attention? If you'd stop quoting him, I could drown him out completely....

Oddly, he doesn't seem to be replying in order. I understand why he doesn't approve of the term. I don't understand why he's so angry about it.

Can we finally be worn down over this word? After ONLY 61 pages? AB, look what you did...this thread got more hits than any of our sex threads did...priorities people!

i think they babe thread had 9k posts... and then they moved it to spam, and eventually it disappeared.

okey.. 9k may be too many.. but it was alot :P

In what instance? This is becoming quite non sequitur.
Welcome to NS General, where every idiot with a misconception of their value to the world can posit their own version of "how things OUGHT to be." :rolleyes:

Oddly, he doesn't seem to be replying in order. I understand why he doesn't approve of the term. I don't understand why he's so angry about it.
I don't think he does either. He's just lashing out. One day it's 'the liberals' today it's this. *shrugs*

Moving on...where the heck did my pants go?

Getting sand in discrete places makes whoopee on the beaches overrated. :p

Hence doggy style. Only your limbs get in contact with the sneaky sand.

No, the real problem is just tar.... but since it can be removed with alcohol-based solutions, the solution is to bring along a few bottles of vodka and have DRUNKEN doggy style beach sex. :D

Yes, you need to be especially careful not to let anything dangle in the sand...but we ARE talking 'safe' sex after all:D

Okay, I'm thinking we've gone beyond topic drift.

*gives last rites to the thread*

Time for me to move on. Goodbye fellow Jocabians and everyone not from the US.

Okay, I'm thinking we've gone beyond topic drift.

*gives last rites to the thread*

Time for me to move on. Good by fellow Jocabians and everyone not from the US.
Yeah, I'm about five minutes away from home time...see you tomorrow Jocabia, you United Statesian you!

DRUNKEN doggy style sex. :DTake 'beach' out of there, and you have the best kind, regardless of setting...

Take 'beach' out of there, and you have the best kind, regardless of setting...

Hmm, I could agree with that.

Except the setting of "prison." That might not be the best.

Good god...why on earth would you do that?
I honestly couldn't tell you x_X

Hence doggy style. Only your limbs get in contact with the sneaky sand.

No, the real problem is just tar.... but since it can be removed with alcohol-based solutions, the solution is to bring along a few bottles of vodka and have DRUNKEN doggy style beach sex. :D


Your damn tar in the sand pisses me off!

I went camping on the beach up by Santa Barbara and had no idea I would get a bunch of gunk stuck to my feet that would be impossible to get off without some sort of alcohol solution.

Except the setting of "prison." That might not be the best.
Hahahaahhahaa...very good point!

Your damn tar in the sand pisses me off!

I went camping on the beach up by Santa Barbara and had no idea I would get a bunch of gunk stuck to my feet that would be impossible to get off without some sort of alcohol solution.
You seriously have tar in the sands??? Hell, we make a living off of such stuff in Alberta...we open pit mine it and extract crude oil...

Okay, I'm thinking we've gone beyond topic drift.

*gives last rites to the thread*

Time for me to move on. Goodbye fellow Jocabians and everyone not from the US.


*lights a candle*

Later Jockie!

Sorry, forum, I just can't seem to take this issue seriously.
There, there. It's ok. We don't take you seriously either. :)

Me either, but some on here sure are obsessed with it. I really do question their motives, since they ( hopefully ) by now understand that it's not a term most Americans have any affection for. I still maintain that the only reason they're trying to foist it off on people is that they view it as some sort of derogation of Americans.

Would you please give some examples of USian being used as a derogatory term?

If your hypothesis is correct, this should be easy to do.

You seriously have tar in the sands??? Hell, we make a living off of such stuff in Alberta...we open pit mine it and extract crude oil...

pebbles of gooey tar washes up on the beach (offshore you see many oil drilling platforms). I thought that they were just not watching what they were doign and polluting the beach but someone told me this has always gone on there and that native americans used it to make their canoes waterproof.

Would you please give some examples of USian being used as a derogatory term?

If your hypothesis is correct, this should be easy to do.
Don't hold your breath waiting for him to produce evidence.

Instead, you should agree to become my legal mentor in the nearish future....*wiggles eyebrows*

You seriously have tar in the sands??? Hell, we make a living off of such stuff in Alberta...we open pit mine it and extract crude oil...

I think it comes from the oil platforms offshore and just washes up. I could be wrong though.

I can't see pit mining opening up in tourist Santa Barbara anytime soon though...

pebbles of gooey tar washes up on the beach (offshore you see many oil drilling platforms). I thought that they were just not watching what they were doign and polluting the beach but someone told me this has always gone on there and that native americans used it to make their canoes waterproof.
How interesting! We had to use animal fat:(

I think it comes from the oil platforms offshore and just washes up. I could be wrong though.

I can't see pit mining opening up in tourist Santa Barbara anytime soon though...
yeah so how is Santa Barbara for students? I was thinking of applying to UCSB for grad school.

Alright, time to pick up my non-United Statesian girls, and take them to our non-United Statesian house in our non-United Statesian town and have a good homecooked non-United Statesian meal! *besos a casi todos*

How interesting! We had to use animal fat:(

Interesting... I never knew that animal fat was used for that. Wouldn't that smell pretty bad?

Don't hold your breath waiting for him to produce evidence.

Instead, you should agree to become my legal mentor in the nearish future....*wiggles eyebrows*

Actually, I think I am being deliberately ignored in retaliation for having reported him to the Mods. But that may just be paranoia on my part.

You can find far better legal mentors than I, but I'm not turning the position down. Now that I think about it, I wouldn't turn down any position. *wiggles eyebrows*

Alright, time to pick up my non-United Statesian girls, and take them to our non-United Statesian house in our non-United Statesian town and have a good homecooked non-United Statesian meal! *besos a casi todos*


and a beso negro to you :D

nite nite Sinner!

It's not insulting or rude, it just doesn't make sense. America is the name of the country while United States is its political title; calling us USians would be the same as refering to German citizens as Federal Republicans or Chinese citizens as People's Republicans or UAE citizens as United Arabs...it doesn't really make a lot of sense to do so to the United States just because our country's name is similar to that of the continents we occupy.

Besides, very rarely (if at all are) are the continents that make up the Americas referred to simply as America; they have various descriptors to place their location in the larger group of the Americas. It makes little sense to use the term "American" to describe an inhabitant of the Americas because it is not one continent but two, along with further subdivisions within each continent.

Would you please give some examples of USian being used as a derogatory term?

If your hypothesis is correct, this should be easy to do.

Hmmm? Doesn't the fact it is used on the General suggest its derogatory? ;)

yeah so how is Santa Barbara for students? I was thinking of applying to UCSB for grad school.

Expensive.

Good partying though.

who gives a shit?

Is this truly the only way you can debate? Sometimes you make it very hard to respect both veterans and elders, Eut. You don't have to agree, but must you be so snide?
Shall I expand on the admittedly abbreviated statement then?

I have repeatedly explained why this damned, idiotic, force-fed term is offensive. I have repeatedly illustrated why citizens of the USA are legitimately referred to as Americans. I have gone to great lengths to try and understand why people who have disdain for America and Americans in general would want to force some inane, illogical name not of our own choosing upon us. The only reasons for their wanting to push such a ridiculous name on us that I can come up with are either to simply try and aggravate us, or to try and change perceptions of us in the eyes of others.

Either way, the whole thing stinks.

Better? :p

Expensive.

Good partying though.

Nice area too.

My wife had an opera gig down there once.....

Shall I expand on the admittedly abbreviated statement then?

I have repeatedly explained why this damned, idiotic, force-fed term is offensive. I have repeatedly illustrated why citizens of the USA are legitimately referred to as Americans. I have gone to great lengths to try and understand why people who have disdain for America and Americans in general would want to force some inane, illogical name not of our own choosing upon us. The only reasons for their wanting to push such a ridiculous name on us that I can come up with are either to simply try and aggravate us, or to try and change perceptions of us in the eyes of others.

Either way, the whole thing stinks.

Better? :p
you mean like Indians for Native Americans?

How did I denigrate Canadian French? I simply said that the word "états-unien" is not common usage in France, which is true. Don't listen to me though, I obviously try to personally control the language, since I belong to the Académie Française. Obviously there are Canadian francophones outside of Québec. I have no problem with US citizen, but I think that it's condescending to use "Usian." It just sounds like you're looking to pick a fight, and you are.
Exactly. Good analysis.

I'm not sure if it's been suggested before, but how about Yankee? On the downside, Southerners tend to be offended by it, most Americans already think of it as referring to New Englanders (hence Southerner offence), and it doesn't actually have anything to do with our country's name. On the plus side, it's already used in the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, it's a familiar word to Americans so it doesn't feel awkward or like it's suggesting that we don't have any right to use the word American, and I find it endearing.

I'm not sure if it's been suggested before, but how about Yankee? On the downside, Southerners tend to be offended by it, most Americans already think of it as referring to New Englanders (hence Southerner offence), and it doesn't actually have anything to do with our country's name. On the plus side, it's already used in the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, it's a familiar word to Americans so it doesn't feel awkward or like it's suggesting that we don't have any right to use the word American, and I find it endearing.


Plus it's our national passtime.

Shall I expand on the admittedly abbreviated statement then?

I have repeatedly explained why this damned, idiotic, force-fed term is offensive. I have repeatedly illustrated why citizens of the USA are legitimately referred to as Americans. I have gone to great lengths to try and understand why people who have disdain for America and Americans in general would want to force some inane, illogical name not of our own choosing upon us. The only reasons for their wanting to push such a ridiculous name on us that I can come up with are either to simply try and aggravate us, or to try and change perceptions of us in the eyes of others.

Either way, the whole thing stinks.

Better? :p

That is better. But I appear to have missed where you gave these clear explanations to which you refer. I've mainly see you claim the term is offensive because it is intended as an insult, but you don't back that up.

You've also made some rather ridiculous and historically inaccurate claims about "American" referring exclusively to US citizens.

I'd genuinely like to expand on why the term is offensive and/or what evidence you have that it is intended to offend.

I've already made clear I prefer Americans, but I see USians as more annoying than insulting. The reasons for your deeper feelings is unclear to me.

I'm not sure if it's been suggested before, but how about Yankee? On the downside, Southerners tend to be offended by it, most Americans already think of it as referring to New Englanders (hence Southerner offence), and it doesn't actually have anything to do with our country's name. On the plus side, it's already used in the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, it's a familiar word to Americans so it doesn't feel awkward or like it's suggesting that we don't have any right to use the word American, and I find it endearing.
trademark infringement probably. Governments talking about "our friends the Yankees" aren't going to get invited to other teams' games.

you mean like Indians for Native Americans?

Are you claiming that the American Indian Movement seeks to deliberately insult Indians? :p

I believe it is called spam, when you add nothing to a thread and simply 'cheer' over and over...
( shrug ) So report me.

Are you claiming that the American Indian Movement seeks to deliberately insult Indians? :p

Tut-tut! You mean the USian Indian Movement! ;)

Are you claiming that the American Indian Movement seeks to deliberately insult Indians? :p
depends on whether the Indians are Indian or Indian. it is an example of Eut's forcing of 'inane, illogical name not of our own choosing upon us'. well not us but the Indians (who may or may not be Indian).

Some people will come knocking on your door tomorrow and take your posessions. You lost the bet.
Well, they're welcome to TRY! :p

trademark infringement probably. Governments talking about "our friends the Yankees" aren't going to get invited to other teams' games.
But think of the free publicity they'd get! (not that the Yankees need it)

who gives a shit?
65 pages worth of people.

depends on whether the Indians are Indian or Indian. it is an example of Eut's forcing of 'inane, illogical name not of our own choosing upon us'. well not us but the Indians (who may or may not be Indian).

Yes, but the American Indian Movement represents the majority of what you would call Native Americans. AIM has stated that the 90's PC term "Native American" is not prefered, having been selected by non-native people who were just looking to be PC for the sake of PCness. The tribes/nations involved prefer the term American Indian, as a traditional and historically applicable name. Just like the rest of americans, american indians don't care about the "accuracy" of a name (i.e. american football), but with the meaning it has come to hold for the people.

no it doesn't.

You posted your response to the locked thread. I shall call this post "OP" for brevity's sake.

In the 3rd or 4th posts, Gift-of-God asked you some questions on your position. He used USian.

You went all uppity and never responded to his questions. When we asked you to answer his questions in this thread, you linked to OP.
Then I posted the wrong response. Sorry about that. Just trying to keep up with this damned thread is giving me a headache! :p

If I have yet to respond in any of the posts I've been making on here to whatever questions were posed , please ask them again and I'll do my best to respond appropriately. :)

BTW ... I didn't mean to come across as "uppity." The term being foisted on Americans by those who should learn the meanting of "courtesy" obviously bothers me. Perhaps that was what you were picking up on.

Yes, but the American Indian Movement represents the majority of what you would call Native Americans. AIM has stated that the 90's PC term "Native American" is not prefered, having been selected by non-native people who were just looking to be PC for the sake of PCness. The tribes/nations involved prefer the term American Indian, as a traditional and historically applicable name. Just like the rest of americans, american indians don't care about the "accuracy" of a name (i.e. american football), but with the meaning it has come to hold for the people.
so what about non-USian american indians? like all the descendants of aztec and inca. are they american indians?

Still smiley spamming?:D

Don't speak to me, Eut. I'm fed up with you.
Whew! Thank God! I was beginning to wonder if I was losing my edge there.

If in doubt, say "US-Americans". Works in German, should work in English.

who gives a shit?

If that was the case, then why did you post?

I am with Eut on this one. I don't reply to people who use the term USian either. Same as I don't reply to people who call me a prarie ******. I find it exactly the same- a derrogatory slur.

By the way, if someone is interested, we have a lot of different names for the nationals of the USA. Nevertheless, "американцы" (Americans) is the only word that is used erm... seriously. "Штатовцы" (statesians), "штатники" (staters) are very rare, with a tinge of the 1980s slang. No one has ever thought of calling them "СШавцы" (USians) here.

Other names are plain derogatory. ;)
Kewl. Most of the names we use for Russians are obscene. :p

a derrogatory slur.
WTF?!

Spammerific! Have you actually made a point in the last twenty posts you've made here?

I spammily thought not. I thought the peanut gallery was closed at this hour.
Strange. I thought you weren't speaking to me anymore. Sigh. Oh well, one can still hope.

WTF?!

Saying "USian" to some Americans is like calling a black person a "******", a American Indian a "prarie ******" etc. It is a derrogatory term- one invented by foreigners, used as an insult, and a term you are trying to replace our proper name with. Many Americans take it as a direct insult- as if "you people" think your name for us is better than our own. You think the people who first called slaves "niggers" didn't say "well, a lot of them are from the area around the Niger river, so the term is more accurate!"

It doesn't matter if you personally don't see it as insulting- we do, and the people who most advocate using the term are vocally anti-american.

And for your pointless interjections, and annoying lack of anything to say...IGNORE.
Thank GOD!

Sorry, but the usage of American to refer to one from the American continents predates its usage to refer to people from the United States.

In fact, the OED refers to the former as the primary meaning over the later.

It is a simple fact. It is the opposite of bullshit.
Then I stand corrected. At least with you I can rely on a degree of rationality. Thank you.

Some of the reasons *I* find Usians/USians/USAians insulting.

~It is the result of an offhand gesture, meaning that absolutely no thought went into it. No other country has its people referred to by an acronym, and I'm sure that they would be equally offended if they were.

~It has its basis in a language different from the primary language spoken in the country. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. When speaking in English, use English names. Don't make literal translations.

~Its not creative at all. At least give us a nickname that wasn't pulled out of your tail. Preferably with an English background/history. I would tolerate Yankee over Usian, despite me being a Texan.

Saying "USian" to some Americans is like calling a black person a "******", a American Indian a "prarie ******" etc. It is a derrogatory term- one invented by foreigners, used as an insult, and a term you are trying to replace our proper name with. Many Americans take it as a direct insult- as if "you people" think your name for us is better than our own. You think the people who first called slaves "niggers" didn't say "well, a lot of them are from the area around the Niger river, so the term is more accurate!"

It doesn't matter if you personally don't see it as insulting- we do, and the people who most advocate using the term are vocally anti-american.

Arrogant Yank!

Arrogant Yank!

Or as slave owners must have said few hundred years ago "uppity ******".

Do you not see the corrolation?

On the subject of Americans (Middle Americans) changing things to fit their perspective: It's always been that way. When middle Americans made maps, they made the USA huge and way out of proportion, almost dwarfing all of Europe and Africa put together. We know this to be a false image, as Africa alone pretty much covers the entire USA.
True. And early European mapmakers wrote "here be dragons" into the unexplored portions of their maps. Your point?

-_- Even if you're right, you're making yourself look bad by not backing up your "Bullshit"s with arguments. Please do so.
I have done so repeatedly. Read the thread.

Kewl. Most of the names we use for Russians are obscene. :p
Hmm.. are there a lot of them? ;) BTW, several years ago I saw a Russian cartoon -- the main villain there was a certain insect-like creature whose name was Таракан-Американ (Cockroach-American).

Some of the reasons *I* find Usians/USians/USAians insulting.

~It is the result of an offhand gesture, meaning that absolutely no thought went into it. No other country has its people referred to by an acronym, and I'm sure that they would be equally offended if they were.

~It has its basis in a language different from the primary language spoken in the country. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. When speaking in English, use English names. Don't make literal translations.

~Its not creative at all. At least give us a nickname that wasn't pulled out of your tail. Preferably with an English background/history. I would tolerate Yankee over Usian, despite me being a Texan.

1. what other country calls itself by an acronym? EDIT: USSR doesn't count.

2. it has its basis in english. US= United States, although this is also the name of a cheap paparazzi magazine, though if that's the intention of USian, then i will concur on the slur.

and i don't think ****** was taken from Niger, it is taken from negro, which means black. and in that vein, if a america calls another american a USian, that's ok. but not if foreigners do so.

Then I stand corrected. At least with you I can rely on a degree of rationality. Thank you.

You are most welcome. I was under the paranoid delusion that you were snubbing me. (Sorry for leaping to conclusions.)

It is sufficient to indicate the consensus on this forum. That is all I wanted to know. Apart that is, from your reasons for finding USian offensive, which are still not forthcoming.
I've posted it four times now. I can't help it if you refuse to read it.

1. what other country calls itself by an acronym? EDIT: USSR doesn't count.

2. it has its basis in english. US= United States, although this is also the name of a cheap paparazzi magazine, though if that's the intention of USian, then i will concur on the slur.

and i don't think ****** was taken from Niger, it is taken from negro, which means black. and in that vein, if a america calls another american a USian, that's ok. but not if foreigners do so.

1) By the logic argued, should they have been called the USSRians? Hmm Great Britian? GBians? As to your question? I don't know.

I seem to recall that ****** was taken from negger as a Dutch Slaver refered to his cargo. Never looked it up myself but it sounded plausible.

This is the only place I have heard USian.

USians? What a stupid idea. See, you're missing that the country is called America. United States of is just like the silly little title you choose for your NS nation. It would be like referring to citizens of the former USSR (at the time) as USSians. Or citizens of former East Germans as DRians. Just because someone decided to thereafter call all of two continents America as well doesn't mean that we have to be stripped of our national identity.

A more logical (but equally pointless) argument would be to demand that America find a new name for itself.

Also, no, USians does not offend me, per se, but I do find it illogical and unnecesary.

Or as slave owners must have said few hundred years ago "uppity ******".

Do you not see the corrolation?

I love how you use a famous part of USian history to back up your argument. I am sure if you went back and asked the slaves what their biggest issue was, it would not be over a debate on the shared usage of their "proper name."

To use your argument, I'd say by refusing to share the title "American" with the peoples of the Americas, you are acting like a slave owner trying to deminish the importance of the people (to quote the Monroe doctrine) in your "backyard."