NationStates Jolt Archive

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10847650&postcount=1
so let me get this straight...

You post an OP. (your link)

He asks questions on the OP.

Your anwers to these questions is posting the OP again?

:rolleyes:

The way I see it, the term "United States of" is just a prefix to the realy name, which is America. people are always called by the main part of their name. For example, there are ethnic Germans outside of the Federal Republic of Germany (ex. Austrians), but we do not call Germans "Federal Republicans" or "FRians." Also, I have never heard the term "America" applied to anything outside of the US. I think the term is "Americas," plural. We are Americans because we live in "America", which is in the "Americas."

I never said that nationalism was petty. I used petty as an adjective, to describe a kind of nationalism, the kind that uses borders as an excuse to hate people who are similar to you in almost everyway. But that is a discussion better left for another thread...entitled "American unity (not including the US or Canada)".

Y'know... I think we've found another misconception. I don't know ANY americans who hate mexicans inherently. I know some who hate the ones who are trying to come to this country illegally. I know some who even hate the ones who come legally. But the ones who stay contentedly in Mexico... I don't know ANYONE who hates them.

Originally Posted by East Canuck
around these parts, we use États-Unien more and more. So what's your point?

What about Sjedinjene Americke Drzave?

If it's not soley to piss us off, the only other valid reason is because you're too stupid to be able to differentiate nationalities properly. Somehow, I doubt that, since you don't seem stupid. Is there some other reason other than to be insulting that you'd be so stupid?
Stupid is as stupid does.

American is not a nationality any more than Asian is. It is the designation of something being associated with one of two or three continents (North and Latin or North, Central and South) . Now you are American, in that you come from the Americas, what Nationality are you? - United States of American. But you are too lazy to say that so you end up with no nationality at all. USian simply restores a term for your nationality that you did not have.

Or are you ashamed of being a citizen of the USA? Is that why people get offended by the term USian?

My god...34 pages and counting...

"US American" then. But I find it odd that you consider it insulting to have *others* known as Americans, yet you have no clue why anyone would find your term "USian" to be insulting. You can see an offense when it offends you but not when you offend others.
Logic is often wasted on those who choose not to understand.

My god...34 pages and counting...
It was only to be a quick check as to whether Gift-of-God was being insulting or not when he/she said USian.

so, let me get this straight...

The US does it one way. The rest of the world does it another way and it's the rest of the world's problem?

Geez... tlak about ego.
No I was refering to Sinhue suggestion that there are racist reasons behind North and South America being considered two continents, which apparently was a misunderstanding as she was refering to how some people use it, not the actual geological demarcations(sp), and since here in the US Mexico and Central America are typicaly included in the geological distinction such is not the case. That comment was directed at the fact that if such was the cse in Canada that was your problem not ours, which, if that had been what was being suggested, would have been the case.

If it's not soley to piss us off, the only other valid reason is because you're too stupid to be able to differentiate nationalities properly. Somehow, I doubt that, since you don't seem stupid. Is there some other reason other than to be insulting that you'd be so stupid?
Geez, it could never be because we feel we need a different term to differenciate USians from those living on the continent.

No that must be because we are stupid. :rolleyes:

I use it to differentiate it from people who have lived in, and are citizens of, multiple nations in the Americas, and people from the USA. It has nothing to do with insults or my apparent stupidity.

Fine, so what do you call a dual-citizen of Britian and America (the USA :rolleyes:) who lives in, and considers himself part of, say, Japan?

You can't just hijack a country's name to use it to describe an entire hemisphere and expect everyone to be okay with it.

Logic is often wasted on those who choose not to understand.

Logic is appreciated, flamming and insults are not. Where is the logic in your position Eutrusca. What is wrong with USian, logically?

It was only to be a quick check as to whether Gift-of-God was being insulting or not when he/she said USian.

Yes, we definitely opened a can of worms.

Fine, so what do you call a dual-citizen of Britian and America (the USA :rolleyes:) who lives in, and considers himself part of, say, Japan?

You can't just hijack a country's name to use it to describe an entire hemisphere and expect everyone to be okay with it.

Get over the fact that America is the name of the continent, not the country. The country is called the United States of America!

Y'know... I think we've found another misconception. I don't know ANY americans who hate mexicans inherently. I know some who hate the ones who are trying to come to this country illegally. I know some who even hate the ones who come legally. But the ones who stay contentedly in Mexico... I don't know ANYONE who hates them.
Interesting...what part of my post referred in any way to the USA? Why would you make that assumption? I specifically spoke of American unity as a way to overcome petty nationalism, and specifically stated that I wasn't referring to the USA or Canada.

Do you see why the word "American" has problems? You read it, and immediately believed it referred to your country alone.

Logic is often wasted on those who choose not to understand.
Projecting now are we?

The way I see it, the term "United States of" is just a prefix to the realy name, which is America.
But they chose a name that was already in use to describe the continent. For example, let's say that I'm a dictator from an island in the Caribbean and I want to change the name of my country to Popular Republic of America. It's in America, so the name would be correct, but it could get confusing.

Geez, it could never be because we feel we need a different term to differenciate USians from those living on the continent.

No that must be because we are stupid. :rolleyes:

Yes, well you clearly have yet to realise that the continent is called NORTH AMERICA. There's also SOUTH AMERICA. There IS NO America continent. And lumping them together is like trying to lump together Europe and Africa as one entity just becasue they're next to each other.

Logic is often wasted on those who choose not to understand.
The irony!

Originally Posted by Qwystyria
Fine, so what do you call a dual-citizen of Britian and America (the USA ) who lives in, and considers himself part of, say, Japan?

Simple - British

Yes, well you clearly have yet to realise that the continent is called NORTH AMERICA. There's also SOUTH AMERICA. There IS NO America continent. And lumping them together is like trying to lump together Europe and Africa as one entity just becasue they're next to each other.

FTAA is what then?

It was only to be a quick check as to whether Gift-of-God was being insulting or not when he/she said USian.
Well, I think that we've determined that some people are hell-bent on taking offense, and that there are possibly those who use it to be offensive, but for the most part, it's a 'meh' issue that nonetheless fills pages upon pages...

No I was refering to Sinhue suggestion that there are racist reasons behind North and South America being considered two continents, which apparently was a misunderstanding as she was refering to how some people use it, not the actual geological demarcations(sp), and since here in the US Mexico and Central America are typicaly included in the geological distinction such is not the case. That comment was directed at the fact that if such was the cse in Canada that was your problem not ours, which, if that had been what was being suggested, would have been the case.
So I didn't read it straight, then. My mistake.

You are not of those and are alright in my book.

No I was refering to Sinhue suggestion that there are racist reasons behind North and South America being considered two continents, which apparently was a misunderstanding as she was refering to how some people use it, not the actual geological demarcations(sp), and since here in the US Mexico and Central America are typicaly included in the geological distinction such is not the case.
That is one BIG run-on sentence...are you sure you don't speak Spanish? Gabriel Garcia Marquez once wrote an entire novel in a single sentence...

The picture one gets is that of some pathological arrogance.
Only you could draw such an infereance. :rolleyes:

Stupid is as stupid does.

American is not a nationality any more than Asian is. It is the designation of something being associated with one of two or three continents (North and Latin or North, Central and South) . Now you are American, in that you come from the Americas, what Nationality are you? - United States of American. But you are too lazy to say that so you end up with no nationality at all. USian simply restores a term for your nationality that you did not have.

Or are you ashamed of being a citizen of the USA? Is that why people get offended by the term USian?
So why not be more specific and refer to people from such as North, South, or, possibly, Central Americans so we know to which of these two(three) continents one is refering?

around these parts, we use États-Unien more and more. So what's your point?

I think herein lies the crux of the issue, my Canuckian friend. I believe a movement has grown outside the US to change the name of Americans to something else. Yes, it appears to be growing some steam (though it is not my experience that it is all that popular), but it's very much political. The problem is as Americans we chose a name and everyone on the planet accepted that name. Suddenly, a small portion of the population of the world decides our name for ourselves bothers them and then they treat it like we're egotistical because we're resistant to changing a name nobody had any problem with for 200 years.

Can I call India - Indians Dotheads so as not to confuse them with American Indians? Or maybe we should look to both of those groups and call them by the names they would prefer rather than making up a name particularly one that offends or annoys those we are referring to. That would be courteous, no? I find it amazing that you change our name and when we say we'd prefer you didn't we're egotistical. What could more egotistical than me thinking that what I want to call you is more important than what you want to be called?

Fine, so what do you call a dual-citizen of Britian and America (the USA :rolleyes:) who lives in, and considers himself part of, say, Japan?

You would have to ask that person.

You can't just hijack a country's name to use it to describe an entire hemisphere and expect everyone to be okay with it.


I'm not. For reasons I have already stated, I self-identify as an American. I then use the term USian to differentiate myself from US citizens. I do not expect everyone to be okay with it, but if you feel insulted, that is not my intent; it is your choice.

Interesting...what part of my post referred in any way to the USA? Why would you make that assumption? I specifically spoke of American unity as a way to overcome petty nationalism, and specifically stated that I wasn't referring to the USA or Canada.

Do you see why the word "American" has problems? You read it, and immediately believed it referred to your country alone.

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood your post... and YES, "American" IS used exclusively to refer to the people of the USA. If you wish to refer to something else, refer to the entity properly. Using "American" wrongly only serves to confuse the issue. If everyone would just refer to entities properly, words like "USian" would be entirely redundant. Were you referring to "North American"? Were you referring to the entirety of both the North AND South America continents? You're rapidly making the word meaningless by attempting to replace it with something else.

That is one BIG run-on sentence...are you sure you don't speak Spanish? Gabriel Garcia Marquez once wrote an entire novel in a single sentence...
Sorry. I tend to do that a lot, just start writing down what I'm thinking and forgeting to break it up.

Originally Posted by Qwystyria
Yes, well you clearly have yet to realise that the continent is called NORTH AMERICA. There's also SOUTH AMERICA. There IS NO America continent. And lumping them together is like trying to lump together Europe and Africa as one entity just becasue they're next to each other.

Same as Euroasia. There is Europe, and there is Asia, but i think we should add Africa as well. Now we have new continent - Euroasiaafrica. And people from Spain, China and Nigeria are Euroasianafricans!

So why not be more specific and refer to people from such as North, South, or, possibly, Central Americans so we know to which of these two(three) continents one is refering?

And if I am referring to them all, as in FTAA or the Pre Columbian American peoples etc.?

Hey all,

I know you probably don't care to hear my opinion, but since this is an opinion-based thread, I'll give it. Also, someone may have already said this before, but as I have to go to work here shortly, I can't read through thirty-four pages of this at this time.

I am a citizen of the United States. However, I understand and agree with our American neighbors who are saying that the terms "America" and "Americans" should be applied to the nations and peoples of the two Americas. I usually don't care about the entire politically correct craze, but I do agree with this one.

On the other hand, what about this? Citizens of the United States are referred to, in many other languages, as Americans. In Spanish, I've only heard "los Americanos" used in reference to people from the US. In French, the same applies for "les Americains." In Czech, same goes for "Americany." The same goes for a huge chunk of languages. While I am not saying, in any way, that this is right, does anyone have any suggestion on changing what has been used for quite some time now?

Again, even though I am from the United States (although not originally born here), I do understand where you (those wishing to change the term's usage) are coming from and respect your desires. I wish the same. I just don't know how to fix the problem.



Sindrow of Sindrowia

The only ones that are insulted by it are the ones who usually post in a condescending way like Eutrusca. It can't possibly be a way to stick it to their posting attitudes and not meant as an offense to the rest of the US population.
Oh, of COURSE not! Oh, heaven forbid! :rolleyes:

Excuse me??? I'm "condescending?" Man, you have SOME gall, is all I can say!

Yes, well you clearly have yet to realise that the continent is called NORTH AMERICA. There's also SOUTH AMERICA. There IS NO America continent. And lumping them together is like trying to lump together Europe and Africa as one entity just becasue they're next to each other.
Yes there is: http://www.oeaguatemala.org/mapa_america.htm

And Europe and Asia share the same continental plate, as do India and Australia. India is not in Asia, by the way.

The funniest thing is that Eutrusca is always pointing out that Muslims need to grow a thicker hide, but when he's called USian, he gets his panties in a bunch.

So I didn't read it straight, then. My mistake.

You are not of those and are alright in my book.
That's all right.

I'm not. For reasons I have already stated, I self-identify as an American. I then use the term USian to differentiate myself from US citizens. I do not expect everyone to be okay with it, but if you feel insulted, that is not my intent; it is your choice.

So just becuase you're okay with hijacking my country's name means I have to be okay with it being hijacked?

You're stripping all meaning from the word, you know... it gives practically NO information to your audience if you refer to yourself as "American" and mean you're from three or four different countries in two continents, without wanting to really identify with any of them...

Yes, well you clearly have yet to realise that the continent is called NORTH AMERICA. There's also SOUTH AMERICA. There IS NO America continent. And lumping them together is like trying to lump together Europe and Africa as one entity just becasue they're next to each other.
And you clearly failed to read that continent are defined differently in different places. Where I come from we learn that American is on big continent. It was stated quite clearly in various places in this thread. You have yet to realize it, condesding though you are.

So who's to say who's right and who's wrong?

There is a practical use for USian. It fills a void.
Perhaps so, but I'll refain from stating just where the viod is that it fills.

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood your post... and YES, "American" IS used exclusively to refer to the people of the USA. If you wish to refer to something else, refer to the entity properly. Using "American" wrongly only serves to confuse the issue. If everyone would just refer to entities properly, words like "USian" would be entirely redundant. Were you referring to "North American"? Were you referring to the entirety of both the North AND South America continents? You're rapidly making the word meaningless by attempting to replace it with something else.
I was referring to America. The continent. While you can provide directional adjectives to be more specific, it is nonetheless perfectly correct to refer to the whole thing as America, as that is its name. So my use of the word "American" to refer to all the nations of the Americas (with the exception that I stated of the US and Canada) is somehow wrong? Just as the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas must refer to the USA? Just as the Organisation of American States must refer only to the USA? How strange. You folks have been claiming that the term "American" in no way usurps the usage of that term to refer to the continent, yet now you are stating that in fact, this term should be reserved for the USA? Strange. Which is it?

The only ones that are insulted by it are the ones who usually post in a condescending way like Eutrusca. It can't possibly be a way to stick it to their posting attitudes and not meant as an offense to the rest of the US population.Oh, of COURSE not! Oh, heaven forbid! :rolleyes:

Excuse me??? I'm "condescending?" Man, you have SOME gall, is all I can say!
QED

Spin off of a spin off.

Is the term USian insulting?

It appears that some members of that nation that is a union of states in the Americas (actually only one of many considering the number of federations in the Americas) that is commonly called the USA are objecting to being called USians. They find it insulting apparently (at least one does)

As a resident in another country in the Americas I have a problem describing citizens of the USA as Americans. There were, in 2000 some 831 million people living in the Americas. Why should the adjective American be reserved for only 282 million of these. That is wrong. It would be like claiming that the adjective European can only be used to describe Germans.

So what should the citizens of the USA be called if they do not like the term USian?

The Germany thing is a very bad analogy. People in the US are called Americans because it is the United States of AMERICA. That is how it has been for centuries. There is not continent called America. There is north and south America. You are not an "American" you are a "South American"

Same as Euroasia. There is Europe, and there is Asia, but i think we should add Africa as well. Now we have new continent - Euroasiaafrica. And people from Spain, China and Nigeria are Euroasianafricans!

Which ceases to give you any idea at all of where anyone is from, and thus the entire thing becomes pedantics. :rolleyes:

Anyone want to start on making the word "the" mean something else, next? We'll eventually all have to take up Chinese (as per Firefly) becuase the english language will no longer communicate anything.

So just becuase you're okay with hijacking my country's name means I have to be okay with it being hijacked?


This is the point. The term "American" is not your term to use alone. It belongs to every single one of us who lives in the Americas.

For reasons I have already stated, I self-identify as an American. I then use the term USian to differentiate myself from US citizens.

What's wrong with the term "US citizens??"

Why not use it?

I do not expect everyone to be okay with it, but if you feel insulted, that is not my intent; it is your choice.

And it's not my intent to insult by calling anyone a frenchified ass-******. If they choose to feel insulted when I call them that it's their choice, right?

So just becuase you're okay with hijacking my country's name means I have to be okay with it being hijacked?

But you hijacked the name of the continent first. We just want it back.

This is the point. The term "American" is not your term to use alone. It belongs to every single one of us who lives in the Americas.

You are Canadian, you already have a country name, so leave us alone or we will take you over ;)

I was referring to America. The continent. While you can provide directional adjectives to be more specific, it is nonetheless perfectly correct to refer to the whole thing as America, as that is its name. So my use of the word "American" to refer to all the nations of the Americas (with the exception that I stated of the US and Canada) is somehow wrong? Just as the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas must refer to the USA? Just as the Organisation of American States must refer only to the USA? How strange. You folks have been claiming that the term "American" in no way usurps the usage of that term to refer to the continent, yet now you are stating that in fact, this term should be reserved for the USA? Strange. Which is it?

The Free Trade Agreement of the Americas clearly refers to the two American continents - frequently referred to as the Americas. PLURAL. Ain't no problem with there being two american continents... it's all you people trying to redefine continents which are having problems. You should just try referring to "the americas" not "America" if you wish to refer to the whole thing. In this language there IS a difference.

The Germany thing is a very bad analogy. People in the US are called Americans because it is the United States of AMERICA. That is how it has been for centuries. There is not continent called America. There is north and south America. You are not an "American" you are a "South American"
Geez! How many times do I have to say this? Yes, there is a continent called America: http://www.oeaguatemala.org/mapa_america.htm

This is the point. The term "American" is not your term to use alone. It belongs to every single one of us who lives in the Americas.

Suddenly. That's the point. People were quite content to call us and us alone Americans a half century ago. Now you want to call the Kingdom of Sweden's people, Kindomians. The People's Republic of China, the PRians. India is a subcontinent and a country. People from the subcontinent are Indians. People from the country, dotheads. Wait, that's not how they use it? What do you mean they don't call themselves that? Why do you INSIST that i be courteous and give a rat's ass what people want to be called? We'll just make up terms and they will deal with it. Especially if they're those egotistical Americans who think they get to keep using the name the whole world has used for them for 200 years.

You are Canadian, you already have a country name, so leave us alone or we will take you over ;)
Yes, well, I also have a continental identity. Even more so as an aboriginal person.

Ain't no problem with there being two american continents... it's all you people trying to redefine continents which are having problems.
Wait, wait, wait. Two American continents? You mean they both belong to the USA?

So just becuase you're okay with hijacking my country's name means I have to be okay with it being hijacked?

No. You don't have to be okay with it. Please understand that. All I want you to do is understand that I am not being insulting when I use the term 'USian', just as I assume that are you not being arrogant when you use the term 'American'.

You're stripping all meaning from the word, you know... it gives practically NO information to your audience if you refer to yourself as "American" and mean you're from three or four different countries in two continents, without wanting to really identify with any of them...

As far as I know, the word 'American' has several meanings, including 'someone from the Americas', i.e. me.

I identify with all of them. That's why I call myself an American rather than a Chilean or Canadian or Quebecois.

Geez! How many times do I have to say this? Yes, there is a continent called America: http://www.oeaguatemala.org/mapa_america.htm

Yeah, but there is an map of Tamriel as well:

http://elderscrolls.cdprojekt.com/mapy/tamriel-02.jpg

But there is a little problem, there is NO REAL TAMRIEL!

Especially if they're those egotistical Americans who think they get to keep using the name the whole world has used for them for 200 years.
United States of America using America: 200 years.
Rest of the continent using America: 400 years.

pwned!

Yes, well, I also have a continental identity. Even more so as an aboriginal person.

Then you would use the name of the Indian Nation. I am part Indian as well, from a tribe in Nova Scotia in fact. most of my ancestors come from Canada. Your continental Identity is "North American." I am not aware of any continent called "America." ;)

Yeah, but there is an map of Tamriel as well:

http://elderscrolls.cdprojekt.com/mapy/tamriel-02.jpg

But there is a little problem, there is NO REAL TAMRIEL!
Which is used in how many schools?

Suddenly. That's the point. People were quite content to call us and us alone Americans a half century ago. Again, you're wrong, Jocabia. Perhaps in English, people have referred to you as Americans. But that is not the only word that has been used to describe you. "American" in Spanish, French and Portuguese was used in a rather informal manner, but the term 'United Statesian' has always been very common in those languages. That it is slow coming to English is not a 'sudden' thing. Do you object so much that people refer to you not as Americans, but United Statesians, when the term 'American' also exists in their language? Then why are you so upset when this is done in English?

And it's not my intent to insult by calling anyone a frenchified ass-******. If they choose to feel insulted when I call them that it's their choice, right?

If we were to use a term such as US Asshats to describe you then you would have every right to be insulted as the term asshats has a negative connotation. Thus frenchified is OK but ass-nigers is insulting because of the pre-existent connotations of the term. Now what are the pre-existent connotations of USian?

This is the point. The term "American" is not your term to use alone. It belongs to every single one of us who lives in the Americas.

Or not...

Oh, why don't you just go start calling yourselves "Americasians" or somethin stupid like that. Call yourself a "Western Hemisphereian". Call yourself a "North American". Call yourself whatever you want, but for some hundreds of years, "American" has been used to refer exclusively to people from the United States of America. Everyone else was sufficiently proud of their country to own it by name too. Why aren't they now? You almost sound jealous.

What's wrong with the term "US citizens??"

Why not use it?



And it's not my intent to insult by calling anyone a frenchified ass-******. If they choose to feel insulted when I call them that it's their choice, right?

Exactly. I love how a request for courtesy is equated with having a massive ego. I wonder what people would do if I walked into a room with a bunch of my friends and we sought out anyone with the same name as us and renamed them.

"Bobby, is it? You are now Sir Guy Who Eats Pretzels. What do you mean why? Because Bobby, here, is already using that name. Yes, I know that everyone here including us have been calling you Bobby since we got here, but, hey, we decided that we are offended by you being called Bobby and it's to confusing, so we're making up a name for you. You don't like it? What an ego you have, thinking you should have some say. How does your head fit in this room?"

I think herein lies the crux of the issue, my Canuckian friend. I believe a movement has grown outside the US to change the name of Americans to something else. Yes, it appears to be growing some steam (though it is not my experience that it is all that popular), but it's very much political. The problem is as Americans we chose a name and everyone on the planet accepted that name. Suddenly, a small portion of the population of the world decides our name for ourselves bothers them and then they treat it like we're egotistical because we're resistant to changing a name nobody had any problem with for 200 years.

Can I call India - Indians Dotheads so as not to confuse them with American Indians? Or maybe we should look to both of those groups and call them by the names they would prefer rather than making up a name particularly one that offends or annoys those we are referring to. That would be courteous, no? I find it amazing that you change our name and when we say we'd prefer you didn't we're egotistical. What could more egotistical than me thinking that what I want to call you is more important than what you want to be called?
You can certainly call them Indians Dotheads and I used this feature to differentiate between two of my friends (one native, the other being on next-to-Pakistan descent) and if enough people start doing it, it will become part of the language.

Sure USAmericans can see us as extremely arrogant to try and change what has been alright for a few hundred years nad we can find their founding fathers extremely arrogant to aprropriate the name of the entire continent. But the things is that we aren't. we find that we need to differentiate in this global econmy and world wide news and global communication tools like the internet that American can refer to both types of people and that a distinction should be made.

Sure, the USAmericans will be slow to change their name for themselves just as they are slow to adopt the metric system and were slow to adopt some other internationnal standard. We will still move on without waiting for their approval. It's just that we are in a sensible transitionnal period right now where old habits die hard. Just like when we stopped using negroes and started saying blacks.

Geez! How many times do I have to say this? Yes, there is a continent called America: http://www.oeaguatemala.org/mapa_america.htm

Those were 2 continents, which are collectively refered to as "The AmericaS" plural you see.....

What's wrong with the term "US citizens??"

Why not use it?



And it's not my intent to insult by calling anyone a frenchified ass-******. If they choose to feel insulted when I call them that it's their choice, right?

You know what, USian is far easier to type than US citizen, and delivers the exact same amount of meaning. I choose not to be insulted by how you use the term 'American'. All I ask is that you return the favour.

Consensus is not the point. If it were then there would be no thread, as it is the consensus that USian is not insulting.
General usage is a form of consensus. General usage is what determines the definitions of words. Therefore, consensus is the point. Got it?

Then you would use the name of the Indian Nation. I am part Indian as well, from a tribe in Nova Scotia in fact. most of my ancestors come from Canada. Your continental Identity is "North American." I am not aware of any continent called "America." ;)
Actually, I'm nehiyaw from Turtle Island. You call it America, and then further split it into 'North' and 'South'. We do not. Who is right?

Which is used in how many schools?

I dunno. In my school, there was an map of Europe, NORTH AMERICA, and most European countries, but there were no map of Americas, nor of Tamriel

Usian just sounds akward and uncomfortable.

Insulting? Not particularly. That could have something to do with my growing dislike for this country, but quite frankly I don't care what nationality you care to label me. If we're talking about nationalities, I'm 1/4 German, 1/4 Irish, 1/8 Danish, 1/8 Norwegian, and 1/4... whatever we're calling citizens of the United Kingdom main island. I'm sure most... whatever we're calling people from the land sandwiched between Mexico and Canada can cite a similarly hodgepodge heritage. The people-formerly-known-as-Americans created a new national identity, a very short time ago (compared to most of the other large, globally dominant countries of the world). It doesn't surprise me that people are beginning to question that now.

I might have to object out of sheer bullheadedness, though. Not because of the term itself, but because it's so sickeningly PC. There's no way to appeal to every rational human being on the planet, regardless of the subject being discussed, so even attempting it seems to be futile to me. I also second the assertion (made much, much earlier in this thread, so I won't go searching for it) that this is an attempt at NewSpeak. Doubleplus ungood! Hey, wait a minute... if we are the people-formerly-known-as-Americans... does that make us unpeople? -gasp- Thoughtcrime! Must crimestop!

{Eheh.... I like that book. A lot. Ignore all that duckspeak.}

On the other hand, it is difficult to wrap my mouth around. Try saying 'USian' in the middle of a sentance in your native language (since people naturally speak in their native language at a more rapid rate) and see if you can manage it. I can, but it requires me to think... which is always a dangerous thing. :p

Call yourself whatever you want, but for some hundreds of years, "American" has been used to refer exclusively to people from the United States of America.
Erm... no. Not exclusively, no. They started to use America to refer to the USA after their independence, but that was in addition. It was used before that to refer to the continent.

Or not...

Oh, why don't you just go start calling yourselves "Americasians" or somethin stupid like that. Call yourself a "Western Hemisphereian". Call yourself a "North American". Call yourself whatever you want, but for some hundreds of years, "American" has been used to refer exclusively to people from the United States of America. Everyone else was sufficiently proud of their country to own it by name too. Why aren't they now? You almost sound jealous.
which came first: the discovery of the american continent or the founding of your country?

Then it is safe to assume that american has been used to refer to the former for longer than the latter.

But you hijacked the name of the continent first. We just want it back.
And this as I've said before hits the root of the problem to you it's a continent and to us they are continents. It seems the whole problem boils down to if we consider the earths smaller major landmass to be one continent or two. Personaly since Africa is about as connected to Eurasia as South and North America are to each other, and yet they are considered distinct continents I feel that it would be more consistent to do the same here, others apparently disagree. Perhapse we should just have new names for the earths Larger and Smaller major Landmasses tha would straighten out the confussion as to what is and isn't a continent.
I propose the names Larger Major Landmass and Smaller Major Landmass;)

Again, you're wrong, Jocabia. Perhaps in English, people have referred to you as Americans. But that is not the only word that has been used to describe you. "American" in Spanish, French and Portuguese was used in a rather informal manner, but the term 'United Statesian' has always been very common in those languages. That it is slow coming to English is not a 'sudden' thing. Do you object so much that people refer to you not as Americans, but United Statesians, when the term 'American' also exists in their language? Then why are you so upset when this is done in English?

Tell you what. Find me a book written in North or South America that refers to us as anything other than Americans or as citizens of our country name. We've been called the US or USA for a long time so it should be pretty easy. I'll wait. Certainly, we should see USian and United Statesian in books from the nineteenth century, no?

If Brazillians should be called Americans, then why not reclassify French people from Europeans to Eurasians or Eurasiafrucans. The Americas are not one continent. It's a huge landmass consisting of two seperate continents, NORTH America(hence why Canadians are called North Americans and not simply Americans) and South America. Face it. Most of the world calls citizens of the US Americans. It's easier than USians. If we are going to rename things because a small minority calls it something else, then why not rename the West "Super-evil-infidel-place". You know, to satisfy a very small minority within Europe, Africa, and Asia that likes killing people in the name of Allah. I mean small. Less than 1% small. Why not rename Christianty "persecution religion thingy". After all, within every once-oppressed group of people, there are some that can't get over what happened before they were born. Why not go back to calling African Americans negroes, the spanish word for black? After all, a very small, very racist minority of white people want it that way.

USian is annoying. I'm not going to change what I call Americans just to please a small group of internet nerds. I wonder how many people here got wedgies and swirlies from teachers, freshmen, and chess clubs.

Ugh...What is this, 24 pages? Is the concept of a homonym that complex?
Only to the intellectually challenged. :rolleyes:

Those were 2 continents, which are collectively refered to as "The AmericaS" plural you see.....
Funny. It says Mapa de America, singular, at the top.

Again, you're wrong, Jocabia. Perhaps in English, people have referred to you as Americans. But that is not the only word that has been used to describe you. "American" in Spanish, French and Portuguese was used in a rather informal manner, but the term 'United Statesian' has always been very common in those languages. That it is slow coming to English is not a 'sudden' thing. Do you object so much that people refer to you not as Americans, but United Statesians, when the term 'American' also exists in their language? Then why are you so upset when this is done in English?


It is beacuse that is not our language. In our language we are "Americans." If that is what we call ourself, then that is what we are.

Tell you what. Find me a book written in North or South America that refers to us as anything other than Americans or as citizens of our country name. We've been called the US or USA for a long time so it should be pretty easy. I'll wait. Certainly, we should see USian and United Statesian in books from the nineteenth century, no?
In what language?

General usage is a form of consensus. General usage is what determines the definitions of words. Therefore, consensus is the point. Got it?
Then it's quite allright to use the term USian. Because that's the consensus.

General usage is a form of consensus. General usage is what determines the definitions of words. Therefore, consensus is the point. Got it?

See those bars at the top of the page. It is a poll. It establishes that here, on NS general, by consensus, USian is not insulting.

However you seem to think it is still insulting. So you want to eat your consensus and have it too. What was that about logic a while back?

If Brazillians should be called Americans, then why not reclassify French people from Europeans to Eurasians or Eurasiafrucans. The Americas are not one continent. It's a huge landmass consisting of two seperate continents, NORTH America(hence why Canadians are called North Americans and not simply Americans) and South America. Face it. Most of the world calls citizens of the US Americans. It's easier than USians. If we are going to rename things because a small minority calls it something else, then why not rename the West "Super-evil-infidel-place". You know, to satisfy a very small minority within Europe, Africa, and Asia that likes killing people in the name of Allah. I mean small. Less than 1% small. Why not rename Christianty "persecution religion thingy". After all, within every once-oppressed group of people, there are some that can't get over what happened before they were born. Why not go back to calling African Americans negroes, the spanish word for black? After all, a very small, very racist minority of white people want it that way.

USian is annoying. I'm not going to change what I call Americans just to please a small group of internet nerds. I wonder how many people here got wedgies and swirlies from teachers, freshmen, and chess clubs.

Damn straight!

I propose the names Larger Major Landmass and Smaller Major Landmass;)
LMeLians and SMeLians? I like it!

Actually, it used to be one continent to you too people, until you got kind of sensitive about it.

I do believe the word is discourteous, although maybe I have too much "lumber in my eye," and I didn't read it correctly. Who am I to say, though? ;)
You're "Not-Fass," which means you're no one. :D

Tell you what. Find me a book written in North or South America that refers to us as anything other than Americans or as citizens of our country name. We've been called the US or USA for a long time so it should be pretty easy. I'll wait. Certainly, we should see USian and United Statesian in books from the nineteenth century, no?
Read some Simón Bolivar. He refers often to "America", and not once does he mean "the USA".

Read some Simón Bolivar. He refers often to "America", and not once does he mean "the USA".

And the guy is American (USA)?

It is beacuse that is not our language. In our language we are "Americans." If that is what we call ourself, then that is what we are.
Yes. You can refer to yourself as American, just as I can. But yours is a national identity and mine is a continental one. You can refer to yourself as American as a national identity, but when I refer to you, I will not use that term.

You know what, USian is far easier to type than US citizen, and delivers the exact same amount of meaning. I choose not to be insulted by how you use the term 'American'. All I ask is that you return the favour.

Oh, are you so short on energy that you can't afford to type FOUR MORE LETTERS?

That you have to make a term that DOESNT EXIST in the English language?

I knew we were approaching an energy crisis, but I didn't know it had spread so far already.

Guesswebetterdoawaywithspacesbetweenwords,sincenowwecanconveytheexactsameamountofmeaningbutwithoutth eenergy-hoggingspacebar.

Funny. It says Mapa de America, singular, at the top.

I could care less what your map says. If you believe that the AmericaS are one, then fine, but that is not so. The Contients are Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia/Oceania, Antarctica, North america, and South America. That is 5-year old knowledge.

What's wrong with the term "US citizens??"

Why not use it?

Nothing's wrong with it.

I don't know where USian has developped a negative connotation, but if you feel this strongly about it, I'll use US citizen or USAmerican if you want.

I dunno. In my school, there was an map of Europe, NORTH AMERICA, and most European countries, but there were no map of Americas, nor of Tamriel
Mmmh... I smell some kind of bias in education. No Africa or Antartica? What about the world?

In what language?
Good point...if you're hoping for some English text....?

And for a condescending windbag, you sure carry on about nothing. Apparently the term 'citizen of the USA' now offends you too? Amazing how someone who heaps insults upon others on a regular basis, can be so utterly sensitive when it comes to anything he chooses to be sensitive about.
Physician, heal thyself. Teacher, teach thyself.

You can certainly call them Indians Dotheads and I used this feature to differentiate between two of my friends (one native, the other being on next-to-Pakistan descent) and if enough people start doing it, it will become part of the language.

Sure USAmericans can see us as extremely arrogant to try and change what has been alright for a few hundred years nad we can find their founding fathers extremely arrogant to aprropriate the name of the entire continent.

You mean like the European Union? Their intent at the time was to be a country formed of all of the states of America and unite them. The UNITED STATES of America. Like the European Union. Now some countries are not part of it, so how dare they be so arrogant as to call themselves that. I dub them, the Duckwalkers Union.

But the things is that we aren't. we find that we need to differentiate in this global econmy and world wide news and global communication tools like the internet that American can refer to both types of people and that a distinction should be made.

Sure, the USAmericans will be slow to change their name for themselves just as they are slow to adopt the metric system and were slow to adopt some other internationnal standard. We will still move on without waiting for their approval. It's just that we are in a sensible transitionnal period right now where old habits die hard. Just like when we stopped using negroes and started saying blacks.
Like I said, it's discourteous. We started saying blacks at the behest of blacks. If blacks find the term offensive it would be appropriate to find another name. We can't just call them whatever we want because we feel like it. It is arrogant to change the name of a people without their input. Yes, people did it in the past. That's a poor excuse. Instead of the rest of the world trying to make the people of the USA be more courteous, it appears the rest of the world wishes to prove a point by becoming more rude.

I would never be so arrogant as to change someone else's name intentionally against their will. It appears that this level of courtesy is not the level of courtesy that many on this forum think we should reach for.

And the guy is American (USA)?
No, he was American (the continent). Jocabia asked for someone from North or South America.

If Brazillians should be called Americans, then why not reclassify French people from Europeans to Eurasians or Eurasiafrucans. The Americas are not one continent. It's a huge landmass consisting of two seperate continents, NORTH America(hence why Canadians are called North Americans and not simply Americans) and South America. Face it. Most of the world calls citizens of the US Americans.
You still can't read can you. Most of the world does not call USians Americans. Only the English speaking world does that. I don't care what you call yourselves, I wanted to find out why calling you USians was insulting, if it was. As no answer has been forthcoming to this I will continue calling you USians.

Oh and Brazil is in the Americas, so Brazilians are Americans as much as USians are. Or are you going to start saying North Americans every time you want to refer to the USians, in which case you will only have to answer to the Canadians ansd Mexicans.

USian is annoying. I'm not going to change what I call Americans just to please a small group of internet nerds. I wonder how many people here got wedgies and swirlies from teachers, freshmen, and chess clubs.
Why is it annoying?
The rest is uncalled for and childish as you well know. Resorting to insult is the tool of the incompetent. Take some good advice and don't try to copy Eutrusca.

I could care less what your map says. If you believe that the AmericaS are one, then fine, but that is not so. The Contients are Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia/Oceania, Antarctica, North america, and South America. That is 5-year old knowledge.
5 year old? That must be the problem, I'm older than 5 and was taught Africa, America, Antartica, Asia, Europe, and Oceania.

See those bars at the top of the page. It is a poll. It establishes that here, on NS general, by consensus, USian is not insulting.


So it's okay to be offensive, as long as ONLY a minority are offended?

Mmmh... I smell some kind of bias in education. No Africa or Antartica? What about the world?

Blame the education for that, not me, and there was an map of the World.

Yes. You can refer to yourself as American, just as I can. But yours is a national identity and mine is a continental one. You can refer to yourself as American as a national identity, but when I refer to you, I will not use that term.

Your craving to use the term American on yourself displays where your true loyalities lie...;) Do you really wish to become one of us? Its not that hard, we're just due south. Anyway if thats not the reason why your obsessed with using the label on yourself, why not call yourself a Canadian/North American, as there is no continent that is called America. Just like all Germans would call themselves Euros, just not Eurasians.

In either case, get over the word and get over yourself.

Oh, are you so short on energy that you can't afford to type FOUR MORE LETTERS?

That you have to make a term that DOESNT EXIST in the English language?

I knew we were approaching an energy crisis, but I didn't know it had spread so far already.

Guesswebetterdoawaywithspacesbetweenwords,sincenowwecanconveytheexactsameamountofmeaningbutwithoutth eenergy-hoggingspacebar.

Are you so short of energy that you have to use the Caps Lock key instead of responding to me in a polite and intelligent manner?

Then you would use the name of the Indian Nation. I am part Indian as well, from a tribe in Nova Scotia in fact. most of my ancestors come from Canada. Your continental Identity is "North American." I am not aware of any continent called "America." ;)

Apparently people are incapable of referring to the continents by their proper names "South America", "North America" or whatever else. For those of you who are incapable of using the language precicely, undestand that I will be insulted by your simpleminded relabelling of everything to suit your fancy, and don't bring the rest of us down to your linguistically famished level.

Understand that I think anyone who uses "USian" is either too stupid, too rude or too lazy to learn to use the language properly.

*Bows out of the thread*

I could care less what your map says. If you believe that the AmericaS are one, then fine, but that is not so. The Contients are Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia/Oceania, Antarctica, North america, and South America. That is 5-year old knowledge.
Oh? And all the people who've been taught there is something called Central America? They are four? Just because you've been taught a certain thing, doesn't mean it is a universally recognised fact.

I've never even heard it before, but if you ask me it sounds pretty gay.


mattr0cka
ROFLMAO! :D

As you are Canadian, I assume you're familiar with the French word for people from the United States of America. What is it? What was that? Oh yeah, right, américains. Furthermore, many French people call the country l'Amérique. But wait! It's too imprecise! You and I should start a crusade, going all over the world, changing the vocabulary of millions of people by ourselves! We'll need snacks, though... I'll bring the pop, and you can bring the chips.
LOL! Good one! :D

Nothing's wrong with it.

I don't know where USian has developped a negative connotation, but if you feel this strongly about it, I'll use US citizen or USAmerican if you want.
No doubt. I just don't see how USian is so uber-offensive compared to US citizen or USAmerican, or people of the USA...

5 year old? That must be the problem, I'm older than 5 and was taught Africa, America, Antartica, Asia, Europe, and Oceania.

I was taught: North America, Europe, Asia, Australia and Oceania, Africa, South America and Antartica. That's seven, lads.

Gah. This is stupid.

The name of the New World (Smaller Major Landmass), America, came before the name of the country, the United States thereof.

Thus, I refer to SMLians as American, and USians as US citizens or whatever.

I am a resident of the United States of America, for statistical purposes.

Eut: If you're going to argue that you should call USians Americans because that's what they choose to call yourself, you'd better drop Germany, China, Japan, French, Spanish, Italian and so on in your conversation, and refer to Deutschland, Zhongguo, Nihon, français, español, italiano, &c. instead. Semplicità.

Nothing's wrong with it.

I don't know where USian has developped a negative connotation, but if you feel this strongly about it, I'll use US citizen

Okay. Please do.

Even though "American" is perfectly proper and would also work. But as established earlier, that would require a context that clarifies its meaning, it can't just be in a vacuum.

"America" could refer to North America, or the USA, or North and South America.

"America's president is a dumbass" clearly refers to the USA. Context!

ROFLMAO! Get this through your head: we were called Americans long before most of the other countries on this continent were more than scattered villages. It's the name we prefer to be known by. We've used it far longer than anyone else. WTF is wrong with calling us by the name we've chosen and used for generations?

Actually, the Carribean was one of the first to be colonized... for sugar production. Remember, Colonialism, Expansionism, and Capitalism happened.

And, for the benefit of the rest of the topic.

American = USA. Everyone nowadays will recognize that. A name can't come from the country's full title- there are/have been other "United States"
North American = From North America
South American = From South America

There's not a collectivized term that could be used, unless you wanted to combine names and be nosorth American. But that's wacky. Unlike "Eurasian".

Look, pardon me if I'm in a perverse mood, but I am, and I'm not reading through a huge list of other posts to see if anyone else said this.

Yes, I find "USian" insulting. There is huge historical precident for people from the USA being called "Americans"... GET OVER IT. That's how it's been since the country was started. What need is there to change it?

If you're from South America, you're a "South American". If you're from Central America, you're a "Central American" and if you're from North America, you can be "North American". You're never from all three, and using "American" to refer to someone not from the United States of America is ambiguous and frankly, idiotic, unless you're deliberately trying to decieve someone.

So get off my country, and get off my labels. Go find your own, and quit trying to steal the ones that have belonged to me since America began.
LMAO!!! And sanity rears its non-PC head yet again! Yayyy! :D

In either case, get over the word and get over yourself.
Ditto. You say American, I say USian. It's not as clever as tomato and tomahto...but it'll do.

5 year old? That must be the problem, I'm older than 5 and was taught Africa, America, Antartica, Asia, Europe, and Oceania.
Why are Europe and Asia seperate, they are far more connected than N and S America, heck Africa is as connected to Asia as N and S America are to each other. If we are going to start redoing the continents lets at least be consistant.

Guesswebetterdoawaywithspacesbetweenwords,sincenowwecanconveytheexactsameamountofmeaningbutwithoutth eenergy-hoggingspacebar.
Sowhydon'tyoucallyourselvesUnitedStatesofAmericansthen? Orisitthattherearetoomanylettersthere? Ithinkwestillneedthespacebetweensentences.

The way I see it, the term "United States of" is just a prefix to the realy name, which is America. people are always called by the main part of their name. For example, there are ethnic Germans outside of the Federal Republic of Germany (ex. Austrians), but we do not call Germans "Federal Republicans" or "FRians." Also, I have never heard the term "America" applied to anything outside of the US. I think the term is "Americas," plural. We are Americans because we live in "America", which is in the "Americas."

No, the term "United States of" is not just a prefix to the name "America".

In the phrase "United States of America" the noun is "States". "United" is an adjective being used to describe the "States" and "of America" is a prepositional phrase being used to describe the location of these States, which is in America.

Thus, the name of the nation means the States which are United which are located in America.

USer

Wow. I can't believe this thread is so huge.

I am from the U.S.A., and call myself an American. I do that, because America appears in the country name. I do not call myself a USian, United States-ian, or whatever other name you may choose. Kind of the same way that I call someone from the People's Republic of China, Chinese, and not a People's Republican. Of course, I understand that in other languages, the name for someone from the U.S.A. may be more akin to USian. But when speaking English, it makes sense to me that people from the U.S.A. be called Americans, because that is what we call ourselves. Same way that when I'm speaking English, I refer to someone from France as French - but I don't do that when I'm speaking French. They have their own name for themselves in their language, so that is the name that I use when I speak that language.

That being said, I don't think the term "USian" is insulting in and of itself. If you want to call me that, go right ahead. I will understand what you mean, and as long as you don't mean it to be insulting, I won't take it that way. *shrug*

Blame the education for that, not me,
I did!!

It just never ceases to amaze me how education can be so subtle in its ways: "Kids, here's a map of the world, but the important bits are these"

Or maybe it's just me.

Read some Simón Bolivar. He refers often to "America", and not once does he mean "the USA".

Not what I asked. Can you show me a book that refers to Americans of the US variety in any other way? According to you we've ALWAYS been called United Statesians in other languages so certainly every book ever written in Spanish must use the term when referring to someone from the US. Pick one and I'll be glad to go pick it up. Pick on that is fifty plus years old.

Ha! We give the rest of the nation 13% of it's GDP! You sure as hell acknowledge we're Americans come tax day. :cool:



No, no matter how many times *I* use "fucktarian" it's not going in the dictionary. The dictionary is about common usage, not individually frequent usage.

And the portugese word meaning "of the USA" is not a silly abbreviation+suffix like "USian." It's an actual word, hence it's not goofy and it's not incorrect.

Christ, "USian" is like those annoying people wHo tYpE lIkE tHiS.
ROFLMFAO!!! :D

Why do you think the rest of us "USAians" avoid telling you Californians that you don't really belong? It's ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! :D

5 year old? That must be the problem, I'm older than 5 and was taught Africa, America, Antartica, Asia, Europe, and Oceania.

There is no America. They are 2 continents. They are not one any more than Africa is part of Eurasia. Are you going to claim Eurasians are Africans? If that is the belief in your culture, then so be it. In The rest of the world, such is not so.

LOL! Good one! :D
Then you'll love the follow up post which points out that the French too have a word translating as "UnitedStatesian".

Would you like to actually post something, or are you just the official cheerleader of this thread, reposting other's ideas in order to add in smiley faces and make trite comments?

Are you so short of energy that you have to use the Caps Lock key instead of responding to me in a polite and intelligent manner?

Oh, now you want to receive the benefits of having others be polite to you...

But when it comes to being polite to others, you are willing to suggest that it's their choice and that's that.

I was trying to be clear by emphasizing the stupidity of your argument - no, I didn't even use the caps lock key, but instead, the shift key - because apparently, mere reasonable arguments are not enough.

See, *I* don't have a lack of energy. I'm willing to spend as many words as possible to be clear. So it's not about whether I am short of energy, but you - since your argument is apparently, it's too much energy to type out "US citizen" and you're just being energy-efficient.

around these parts, we use États-Unien more and more. So what's your point?

You're québécois, not French. What's your point, may I ask?

..I shall only be addressed as "My Lord and Savory" for that is what I choose to be called, and by the logic put forward in this thread, any other term is deemed to be somehow vaguely insulting.

Personally, I won't be using USian because it has no flow.
United Statesmen, though.. that one I like very much. It has a strong martial quality to it.

What say you New Yorkers, Michigonians, Long Islanders, etc. etc., to starting to use the term United Statesmen instead? I think it's a much stronger definition. You can then raise your noses arrogantly and proclaim, "I'm not just an American, I'm a United Statesman, by God!"

Thanks...I knew I'd spell it wrong, so I was waiting for a francophone to set him straight.

For the record, I'm French, and I'm female.

Ditto. You say American, I say USian. It's not as clever as tomato and tomahto...but it'll do.

Only its not correct for you to use the term on yourself, as you dont live in the continent of America, you live in North America.

Its correct for us to use the term for the citizens of our country and for the name of our country.

"America's president is a dumbass" clearly refers to the USA. Context!
Only because there isn't a continental government...in which case I'm almost certain that statement would still stand.

Perhaps because you react to any use of this word in a condescending, deliberately obtuse way, using it as an excuse to go off on a rant? Ya THINK???

For most of us, USian is a construction that increases clarity for those of us who are not citizens of the USA, and who are nonetheless a part of the Americas. That this term is late coming to English, the minority language on this continent, does not somehow make it a new term meant solely to insult you. Get over yourself.
Pardon me if I have good cause to suspect your motives as being of a somewhat less "pure" deriviation. :rolleyes:

BTW ... please do try to control your temper. We can't have people in Canada dropping over dead from acute myocardial infarctions; the country would become too quickly depopulated.

Who voted Choclate Hobnobs?:rolleyes:

You mean like the European Union? Their intent at the time was to be a country formed of all of the states of America and unite them. The UNITED STATES of America. Like the European Union. Now some countries are not part of it, so how dare they be so arrogant as to call themselves that. I dub them, the Duckwalkers Union.
And I shall stand proudly next to you to fight the Duckwalkers Union appropriation of the term Europe.


Like I said, it's discourteous. We started saying blacks at the behest of blacks. If blacks find the term offensive it would be appropriate to find another name. We can't just call them whatever we want because we feel like it. It is arrogant to change the name of a people without their input. Yes, people did it in the past. That's a poor excuse. Instead of the rest of the world trying to make the people of the USA be more courteous, it appears the rest of the world wishes to prove a point by becoming more rude.

I would never be so arrogant as to change someone else's name intentionally against their will. It appears that this level of courtesy is not the level of courtesy that many on this forum think we should reach for.
Well, you had it coming because you are rude. :p

Seriously, I see your point. But we are having a difficulty differenciating the two group of American. What do USAmerican suggest we do about it? So far, all I've heard about the USA is "Get over it." It doesn't help really.

So let's roll up our sleeves and find a different term that we can all agree with. I would propose Duckwalkers, but it is already used.

You're québécois, not French. What's your point, may I ask?

He feel like French, and he would like to liberate his opressed country from choking hands of Anglican creeps. Isn't that obvious?

I think herein lies the crux of the issue, my Canuckian friend. I believe a movement has grown outside the US to change the name of Americans to something else. Yes, it appears to be growing some steam (though it is not my experience that it is all that popular), but it's very much political. The problem is as Americans we chose a name and everyone on the planet accepted that name. Suddenly, a small portion of the population of the world decides our name for ourselves bothers them and then they treat it like we're egotistical because we're resistant to changing a name nobody had any problem with for 200 years.

Can I call India - Indians Dotheads so as not to confuse them with American Indians? Or maybe we should look to both of those groups and call them by the names they would prefer rather than making up a name particularly one that offends or annoys those we are referring to. That would be courteous, no? I find it amazing that you change our name and when we say we'd prefer you didn't we're egotistical. What could more egotistical than me thinking that what I want to call you is more important than what you want to be called?

Frankly, I've never heard the term "usian" outside of this board.

Not what I asked. Can you show me a book that refers to Americans of the US variety in any other way? According to you we've ALWAYS been called United Statesians in other languages so certainly every book ever written in Spanish must use the term when referring to someone from the US. Pick one and I'll be glad to go pick it up. Pick on that is fifty plus years old.
I've already given you a name of an author. I'm not about to mail you a copy...visit your local library for an English translation.

While you're at it, check out José Martí, Fidel Castro, Che Guevarra, Pablo Neruda and Gabriela Mistral.

Just because you have bullied the world into calling you by a preposterous name, we should accept it?
Anyways, *all* people I know refer to Americans, when it doesn't matter if it's US-Americans, Canadians, Chileans, or whatever.
If they want to be concise, they *all* use "US-Americans" or another name specific to citizens of the USA.

The world, USA included, was also "bullied" into accepting the placement of the Prime Meridian. After all, why else do you think time is based upon GMT, Greenwich Mean Time? (As in the Greenwich in the country north of France, east of Ireland, and "across the pond" from America.{And I do mean all of the Americas, North and South and Central})

USian is pathetic, and Yankee is used here in certain places in the USA as a term for anyone north of the Mason-Dixon line. Until someone, preferrably a fellow citizen and resident of the United States of America, comes up with something better, I am sticking with using the word(s) American(s). :upyours:

No, the term "United States of" is not just a prefix to the name "America".

In the phrase "United States of America" the noun is "States". "United" is an adjective being used to describe the "States" and "of America" is a prepositional phrase being used to describe the location of these States, which is in America.

Thus, the name of the nation means the States which are United which are located in America.

United States is a reference to the government. You'll notice that there are choices for government names here. My nation's name is Jocabia. It can be called the United States of Jocabia. Obviously, it's people wouldn't be called USians because there are many other United States throughout NS.

Couldn't one equally complain that had we called ourselves USians that chose for a nation name a style of government that other governments might use. If someone became the United States of North Africa, wouldn't they have an equal beef? Perhaps the whole name is flawed because the people of the world are so easily confused. I think the clear solution is for a couple of random people from other countries to make up a name for the whole country. That would clearly be the polite thing to do.

Well if the term American isn't PC then niether is USian as the are other countries under the title "The United States of..." who could be known as USians.

No matter what you call us you'll be PIC.

..
What say you New Yorkers, Michigonians, Long Islanders, etc. etc., to starting to use the term United Statesmen instead? I think it's a much stronger definition. You can then raise your noses arrogantly and proclaim, "I'm not just an American, I'm a United Statesman, by God!"

Sexist! ;)

Shouldn't it be United Statesperson?

Why are Europe and Asia seperate, they are far more connected than N and S America, heck Africa is as connected to Asia as N and S America are to each other. If we are going to start redoing the continents lets at least be consistant.
That's what I've been saying all along! If we want to be all precise and proper it should be North America, South America, Eurasia, Africa, Indo-Australia, and Antartica.

The reason is not like that is because of good, ole use. And America was in use long, long before the USA got its independence, and many many people in America still use it to mean the continent (in addition to the country, I may add).

My point is that purely geographical reasons don't cut it to name the continents.

Oh, now you want to receive the benefits of having others be polite to you...

But when it comes to being polite to others, you are willing to suggest that it's their choice and that's that.

I was trying to be clear by emphasizing the stupidity of your argument - no, I didn't even use the caps lock key, but instead, the shift key - because apparently, mere reasonable arguments are not enough.

See, *I* don't have a lack of energy. I'm willing to spend as many words as possible to be clear. So it's not about whether I am short of energy, but you - since your argument is apparently, it's too much energy to type out "US citizen" and you're just being energy-efficient.

The thing I have been repeating since the beginning is this:

I self-identify as American.

You self-identify as American.

Your use of the term 'American' seems rude and arrogant to me. I got over it.

Can you please do the same for the term 'USian'?

Is there anything here you do not understand?

Well if the term American isn't PC then niether is USian as the are other countries under the title "The United States of..." who could be known as USians.

No matter what you call us you'll be PIC.

Which other countries?

Frankly, I've never heard the term "usian" outside of this board.

Me neither!

For the record, I'm French, and I'm female.
Then what the heck? Oh, as I read in another post, you have a superiority complex over French Canadians.

Me neither!

Me too.

There is no America. They are 2 continents. They are not one any more than Africa is part of Eurasia. Are you going to claim Eurasians are Africans? If that is the belief in your culture, then so be it. In The rest of the world, such is not so.
So you agree that Eurasia is one continent, yet you listed them as separate continents. Why is that?

You're "Not-Fass," which means you're no one. :D


Lol.

I don't have a problem with you using regular terms that you didn't make up. However there is already a single term for Americans. I think if you were polite you would use it. It's existed for 200 years and other than in threads like this one, I've never run into a single misunderstanding regarding it, despite your claims that it's so imprecise that people are having trouble figuring out what is meant.
As I've pointed out before, both in this thread and elsewhere, use of the pseudo-term "USian" is nothing more than a cover for a thinly veiled attempt to insult. No one will ever be able to convince me otherwise.

Which other countries?

Just making a point that "The United States" isn't a name, it's a description. Just like "American".

LMAO!!! And sanity rears its non-PC head yet again! Yayyy! :D
Are you actually going to respond to any of our logical counter-arguments, or have we discovered Neo Rogolia's puppetmaster?

Depends on what you've been taught. There is no one 'rule' as to how many continents there are because different criteria are used.

I'm always amazed when 'North American' conveniently doesn't include the dusky, Spanish speaking people south of the USA...
They only time they're not included is in posts by you and those like you who try to insult yet again.

Know Im not saying that Americans are a little insensitive to other nations.

Im saying they are VERY sensitive to other nations. You've been given a handbook for christs sake!:D anyway the term USian is just about the dubest thing Ive ever herd ;)

I will say this: this thread deserves about as much attention as..as..CHOCLATE HOBNOBS:p

As I've pointed out before, both in this thread and elsewhere, use of the pseudo-term "USian" is nothing more than a cover for a thinly veiled attempt to insult. No one will ever be able to convince me otherwise.
Hooray for the closed mind!

Me too.
In that case, does it insult you, and if so why?

(We are not asking you to use it, you use whatever term you want.)

Estados Unidos Mexicanos... I'm sorry, but doesn't that mean "United States of Mexico"?

What say you New Yorkers, Michigonians, Long Islanders, etc. etc., to starting to use the term United Statesmen instead? I think it's a much stronger definition. You can then raise your noses arrogantly and proclaim, "I'm not just an American, I'm a United Statesman, by God!"

Actually, Michigan is split on the name of it's peoples. Some are Michigonians... others, like myself, are Michiganders. Hm. However are we going to solve that one?

And if it becomes necessary, I'd adopted United Statesman as the nationality I was born into. I probably wouldn't be arrogant about it, though. More along the lines of, "Yeah... I'm a United Statesman... now let me cast off that nationality and join your country. Please?" Honestly, what do... we have to be arrogant about other than sticking our noses in other peoples' business? (Don't answer that, don't answer that, don't answer that. Learn the meaning of a rhetorical question, please.)

Good morals. *sneers*
"Comradeship." [ sneers ]

You're québécois, not French. What's your point, may I ask?
Well, since you said that Sinuhue was a Canuck, I figured you wanted the Québecois's take on it. It also showed that your argument was specious at best.

I guess that would be my main point: your argument is weak on this instance.

wow, I came in on this thred way late.....



anyway, I don't like to be called a "USian" because the only time I really hear people doing it, they are being rude, and sarcastic. It's almost like a derogatory term.

I am American, from the United States of America. If someone from Argentina can be American, why can't I? (if that's your logic, which I btw think is idiotic, since my country is called America, I don't tend to identify with the name of the land mass I am on, so much as the government I am subject to, which is the American Government, so there.)

It's got "USA" in it, not just "US". And you can then also call your country "Usania" -- that is, unless you think it looks a little too much like "Usama" in cursive.

I've already given you a name of an author. I'm not about to mail you a copy...visit your local library for an English translation.

While you're at it, check out José Martí, Fidel Castro, Che Guevarra, Pablo Neruda and Gabriel Mistral.

No, you didn't. You said he refers to America and doesn't mean the US. You didn't say he refers to us as United Statesians.

Neruda? I don't remember Neruda using the term, but I have all his stuff so I'll start searching. Can you tell me what poem or book that was in?

You're being a bit vague. You say it's ALWAYS and since you know it's there you should be able to tell me where to look.

I self-identify as American.

A correct term.

You self-identify as American.

A correct term.

Your use of the term 'American' seems rude and arrogant to me. I got over it.

Can you please do the same for the term 'USian'?

"USian" isn't a correct term.

What's so hard to understand about that?

Which other countries?
I've seen Estados Unidos Mexicanos translated as the United States of Mexico, I've also seen it translated as the United Mexican States though.

Hooray for the closed mind!
Meh. Continuing this thread will now be equivalent to banging our collective heads against a brick wall. I can see that and this is my third post in it so far. I guess that's what comes of participating in the "Do you have faith in god" thread.... I should learn not to debate religion on NS. :(

[QUOTE=Vadrouille]Frankly, I've never heard the term "usian" outside of this board.[/QUO

Me Neither

Then what the heck? Oh, as I read in another post, you have a superiority complex over French Canadians.


Are you surprised that a French person can possibly stand up for the common usage of the word in her language, and in the English language on the whole?

And here we go with the French-bashing. No, I do NOT have a complex about les québécois, just uppity, self-righteous people in general. You, however, seem to have a superiority complex over the Americans.

Estados Unidos Mexicanos... I'm sorry, but doesn't that mean "United States of Mexico"?

Thank you.

I'll be damned if they're going to be called USians too because only us USians are the real USians. They're Mexicans!

I believe the pointlessness of this thread has been revealed.

Well, since you said that Sinuhue was a Canuck, I figured you wanted the Québecois's take on it. It also showed that your argument was specious at best.

I guess that would be my main point: your argument is weak on this instance.


In what instance? This is becoming quite non sequitur.

Estados Unidos Mexicanos... I'm sorry, but doesn't that mean "United States of Mexico"?
Yes. Which is also wrong, by the way. Mexico was just the central part of the country, now those chilangos want to appropriate it all. Damn them chilangos!
* shakes fist in the general direction of Mexico City *

I'd rather the country had been called Anahuac or something else. I'll take it up with the Anahuaquians, though.

The term ANUSians would suit you

And I shall stand proudly next to you to fight the Duckwalkers Union appropriation of the term Europe.



Well, you had it coming because you are rude. :p

Seriously, I see your point. But we are having a difficulty differenciating the two group of American. What do USAmerican suggest we do about it? So far, all I've heard about the USA is "Get over it." It doesn't help really.

So let's roll up our sleeves and find a different term that we can all agree with. I would propose Duckwalkers, but it is already used.

I understand the point and I'm not offended by people's use of the term. I do think it's remarkably arrogant however. You have been very reasonable. I notice some of those on your side and some on my side are becoming less so. If only they could see our lovefest and cast aside their differences and their clothes and join us. ;)

No, you didn't. You said he refers to America and doesn't mean the US. You didn't say he refers to us as United Statesians. Oh, but he does. He was a big fan of yours, but even he called you citizens of the US, not 'Americans'.

You're being a bit vague. And you are being obtuse. You say it's ALWAYS and since you know it's there you should be able to tell me where to look.I said the term has always been used, not that it was always used in place of 'American'. Reread that post and you'll find this to be the case. It is not a new invention of the past 50 years in Spanish, Portuguese and French, no matter how much you want it to be.

A correct term.



A correct term.



"USian" isn't a correct term.

What's so hard to understand about that?

Apparently you can not get over it. Tell you what. You and all other USers can get together and find yourselves something you want me to call you as you can not help but be insulted by the word USian. Tell me the word and I will use it. If you say 'American', I will shorten it to AAs.

The term ANUSians would suit you

To whom are you referring?

How come you cannot give one VALID reason why Americans shouldn't be used as a term to describe people from the United States of America?

I guess you just decided to give up the NS part of the game, huh, SB?

If you every checked the other forum you were part of for a short time, you probably saw the nice remarks made towards your participation.

Nice to see you again.

In that case, does it insult you, and if so why?

(We are not asking you to use it, you use whatever term you want.)

Frankly, I've never heard the term "usian" outside of this board.

And i answered - me too. So what do you want me to explain to you? If Americans (USA) find term USians insulting, than i won't insist on that term. BTW i'm from Europe.

Which other countries?
The United States of Mexico was named earlier. But I don'T know the validity of the information.

Just making a point that "The United States" isn't a name, it's a description. Just like "American".

Which means that the USA is not a name at all. It is a couple of conjoined descriptions.
I agree that the original meanings of each word in the phrase "The United States" are just general nouns or the definite article, however as a phrase it has come to denote a nation. The problem with American is that in one language it has come to denote a nationality whilst in others it has come to denote belonging to a set of continents.
All I am trying to do is establish what simple term I can use to denote a citizen of the USA, in the mode of English, Japanese etc. without getting confused with the wider denotation of "Americano" (A problem of thinking in two languages - something that Eutrusca should try sometime). AN ugly but usable term has been floating around in academia for some time. It is USian. However when this was used, some people took offence. I am asking why?

Spin off of a spin off.

Is the term USian insulting?

It appears that some members of that nation that is a union of states in the Americas (actually only one of many considering the number of federations in the Americas) that is commonly called the USA are objecting to being called USians. They find it insulting apparently (at least one does)

As a resident in another country in the Americas I have a problem describing citizens of the USA as Americans. There were, in 2000 some 831 million people living in the Americas. Why should the adjective American be reserved for only 282 million of these. That is wrong. It would be like claiming that the adjective European can only be used to describe Germans.

So what should the citizens of the USA be called if they do not like the term USian?
There are two basic sides to this issue.

1) We live in the Americas, and so do shitloads of other people.

2) WE'RE THE MOST RECOGNIZABLE AND POPULAR "AMERICANS", DAMMIT!

So, let me propose this: I personally couldn't give a flying monkey fuck what you call me with regard to my geographical location. As Bill Hicks said, I kept telling my parents as a spirit in the nether world before being conceived "FUCK IN SYDNEY! FUCK IN BRISBANE!", but they didn't listen.

I think "USian" looks and sounds infantile, but I think "Americans" is arrogant and pushy. My solution? "Bloated, Gluttonous, Unenlightened, Loudmouthed Bastards" is accurate, but too long. I guess I have no solution because it isn't really a problem for anyone except miserable faux-patriots and flag humpers. If we're so damned invincible, why should we care what anyone else calls us? Shit, we spend enough effort coming up with clever nicknames for the French alone, so why should it be any skin off our collective nose?

How's about "Harbingers of Democracy By Any Means Necessary"? Nope, still too long. Or perhaps "Bombers of Brown People into the Stone Age since 1944"? Uh-uh. Hmmm. Oh, here's a simple one: "Gas Guzzlers".

Sorry, forum, I just can't seem to take this issue seriously. Go figure.

The United States of Mexico was named earlier. But I don'T know the validity of the information.

I think it's Federal States of Mexico.

So you agree that Eurasia is one continent, yet you listed them as separate continents. Why is that?

Eurasia can be either. They are seperated by mountains and rivers and the Caspian and Black seas. Africa is just as connectied to them as South America is to North America. In fact, moreso I believe. Also the Americas are not connected even, there is the Panama Canal

Are you surprised that a French person can possibly stand up for the common usage of the word in her language, and in the English language on the whole? No, I'm completely unsurprised that a French person would denigrate the French spoken in Canada, and dismiss it so easily. We know how hard you try to control the language.

And here we go with the French-bashing. No, I do NOT have a complex about les québécois, just uppity, self-righteous people in general. And are you characterising French Canadians as such...you know...there are French speakers in Canada outside of Quebec...and in any case, your dismisal of a French speaker from Quebec looks an awful lot like superiority...do you deny that the word he gave exists? Or do you think that only the French Canadians use such terms? You, however, seem to have a superiority complex over the Americans.Because I use the term USian? Wow. When I say US citizen, do you still believe that?

Defend all you want...but just because you say "American" in French, does not mean all French speakers follow your lead.

There are two basic sides to this issue.

1) We live in the Americas, and so do shitloads of other people.

2) WE'RE THE MOST RECOGNIZABLE AND POPULAR "AMERICANS", DAMMIT!

So, let me propose this: I personally couldn't give a flying monkey fuck what you call me with regard to my geographical location. As Bill Hicks said, I kept telling my parents as a spirit in the nether world before being conceived "FUCK IN SYDNEY! FUCK IN BRISBANE!", but they didn't listen.

I think "USian" looks and sounds infantile, but I think "Americans" is arrogant and pushy. My solution? "Bloated, Gluttonous, Unenlightened, Loudmouthed Bastards" is accurate, but too long. I guess I have no solution because it isn't really a problem for anyone except miserable faux-patriots and flag humpers. If we're so damned invincible, why should we care what anyone else calls us? Shit, we spend enough effort coming up with clever nicknames for the French alone, so why should it be any skin off our collective nose?

How's about "Harbingers of Democracy By Any Means Necessary"? Nope, still too long. Or perhaps "Bombers of Brown People into the Stone Age since 1944"? Uh-uh. Hmmm. Oh, here's a simple one: "Gas Guzzlers".

Sorry, forum, I just can't seem to take this issue seriously. Go figure.

Thank you. I was beginning to take this too seriously. Off to the hippo races!

While you scoff at a continental identity, you fail to realise that such an identity outside of Canada and the USA is a reality.
Only in your mind.

One more thing: what kind of unimaginitve CRAP was "South America". Jeez! We got Asia, Africa, Europe, Australia -- and then we get North America and South America. Fer cryin' out loud, THESE ARE CONTINENTS! It ain't like two towns or states or something. I expected something far more interesting from the Spanish/Portugese contingency.

I'm an American. Period. "USian" makes my ears hurt. I have no problem if you Mexicans, Canadians, Brazillians, etc want to call yourselves Americans as well.

It is USian. However when this was used, some people took offence. I am asking why?

Like I said before: it sounds akward and uncomfortable. Might as well call us kakapopopeepeeshirians.

Also it conflicts with the USM (Mexico). We could definately find a better name than USians.

There are two basic sides to this issue.

1) We live in the Americas, and so do shitloads of other people.

2) WE'RE THE MOST RECOGNIZABLE AND POPULAR "AMERICANS", DAMMIT!

So, let me propose this: I personally couldn't give a flying monkey fuck what you call me with regard to my geographical location. As Bill Hicks said, I kept telling my parents as a spirit in the nether world before being conceived "FUCK IN SYDNEY! FUCK IN BRISBANE!", but they didn't listen.

I think "USian" looks and sounds infantile, but I think "Americans" is arrogant and pushy. My solution? "Bloated, Gluttonous, Unenlightened, Loudmouthed Bastards" is accurate, but too long. I guess I have no solution because it isn't really a problem for anyone except miserable faux-patriots and flag humpers. If we're so damned invincible, why should we care what anyone else calls us? Shit, we spend enough effort coming up with clever nicknames for the French alone, so why should it be any skin off our collective nose?

How's about "Harbingers of Democracy By Any Means Necessary"? Nope, still too long. Or perhaps "Bombers of Brown People into the Stone Age since 1944"? Uh-uh. Hmmm. Oh, here's a simple one: "Gas Guzzlers".

Sorry, forum, I just can't seem to take this issue seriously. Go figure.


Indeed. Also, some two-thirds of native English speakers speak American English, where the precedent is to use the adjective "American" to describe someone or something from the USA.

I understand the point and I'm not offended by people's use of the term. I do think it's remarkably arrogant however. You have been very reasonable. I notice some of those on your side and some on my side are becoming less so. If only they could see our lovefest and cast aside their differences and their clothes and join us. ;)
I know I've gotten my back up because of the people who have basically demanded that I stop using the term 'OR ELSE'. I certainly don't mean it in an offensive way, but much as I object to being told I am lying when I most certainly am not, I object to people telling me what my motivations are.

The United States of Mexico was named earlier. But I don'T know the validity of the information.

The local name is Estados Unidos Mexicanos, which when rendered in English becomes The United Mexican States. As such USian simply cannot apply to them.

Only in your mind.
Is this truly the only way you can debate? Sometimes you make it very hard to respect both veterans and elders, Eut. You don't have to agree, but must you be so snide?

Actually, Michigan is split on the name of it's peoples. Some are Michigonians... others, like myself, are Michiganders. Hm. However are we going to solve that one?)

Michigonians? I've never heard that one before. I've heard Michiganians, but that's just the term the state likes to use. The only real splits in Michigan are Michiganders and Yoopers, but Yoopers are still Michiganders.

The state's position on what to call residents of Michigan (http://www.michigan.gov/hal/0,1607,%207-160-15481_20826_20829-54118--,00.html#michiganian)


Just making a point that "The United States" isn't a name, it's a description. Just like "American".

Exactly. The USA have never had a proper noun in the way that Germany, France, or Brazil have.

Thank you. I was beginning to take this too seriously. Off to the hippo races!
I'll join you...will there be cotton candy?

The United States of Mexico was named earlier. But I don'T know the validity of the information.
It's valid. That's the official name of Mexico. Venezuela used to be Estados Unidos de Venezuela, but they changed the name to República Bolivariana de Venezuela a few years ago.

The local name is Estados Unidos Mexicanos, which when rendered in English becomes The United Mexican States. As such USian simply cannot apply to them.

Umian?

Forgot to celebrate my 5k :D

The local name is Estados Unidos Mexicanos, which when rendered in English becomes The United Mexican States. As such USian simply cannot apply to them.
Why not? :rolleyes:

Estados Unidos Mexicanos... I'm sorry, but doesn't that mean "United States of Mexico"?

Yes indeed. And people in Australia I hereby dub as "Commonwealthians" as they are the commonwealth of Australia.

Might as well call us kakapopopeepeeshirians.

OK. I'll do that.

Apparently you can not get over it. Tell you what. You and all other USers can get together and find yourselves something you want me to call you as you can not help but be insulted by the word USian. Tell me the word and I will use it. If you say 'American', I will shorten it to AAs.

"US citizen."

Bonus part is, you've even used that already. Can't be that much of a chore.

I guess you just decided to give up the NS part of the game, huh, SB?

If you every checked the other forum you were part of for a short time, you probably saw the nice remarks made towards your participation.

Nice to see you again.

Yeah, the Corporate Republic of Santa Barbara is no more, nor are its citizens; Santa Barbarans a.k.a CRSBians.

Hmm, flattery, you say? Well I can't resist that! I'll go check.

:)

This thread is funny.
It never ceases to amaze me how worked up people can get over such pointless things.
LOL! Touche! :D

I'll join you...will there be cotton candy?

Yes, and the Vienna Boys Choir.

wow, I came in on this thred way late.....



anyway, I don't like to be called a "USian" because the only time I really hear people doing it, they are being rude, and sarcastic. It's almost like a derogatory term.

I am American, from the United States of America. If someone from Argentina can be American, why can't I? (if that's your logic, which I btw think is idiotic, since my country is called America, I don't tend to identify with the name of the land mass I am on, so much as the government I am subject to, which is the American Government, so there.)

Yes, this is the point I was making. It doesn't offend me to be used but it does appear to rear it's head much more often when people are trying to upset Eutrusca or people who get riled equally by such things.

Yes, and the Vienna Boys Choir.
I've heard they are amazing contortionists...where's Fass...I'm sure he'd know...

2) WE'RE THE MOST RECOGNIZABLE AND POPULAR "AMERICANS", DAMMIT!
Oh, I don't know about that. A Mexican with zarape, sombrero and mustache is very recognizable. Not to mention that Canadians are regarded as nicer, and get invited to lots of parties, which means they must be quite popular too :)

There's the root of the problem. Your country cannot be called America in a way it creates conflict between itself and the continent.

Alright, well, I was going to read through this whole thing, but I stopped here. People, this is ridiculous.

At the time of its founding, the US was the only independent conglomeration of states or state-like groups in both American continents. Hence it was the United States of America - it was the only group of united states in America. Pretty simple. Yeah, there are other nations on the continents now, but they weren't there before. Further, the other inhabitants at the time were either indigenous or colonial citizens of European powers. So they referred to themselves by their tribal names or by their European nations of origin. The US could have been called Columbia, I suppose, but there'd have been a stink from Colombians about that too.

You're effectively asking a nation of nearly 300 million people to change its name on the basis of your own misplaced offense at Americans calling themselves thus. Call us Yanks if you want, USians, Staters, arrogant bastards, whatever. But the nation is the United States of America, and its inhabitants are Americans. They were called that first, so they get bragging rights. Suck it up.

OK. I'll do that.

Since we've eliminated Mexico from the "US clump", I like the name United Statesman much better.

Yes, this is the point I was making. It doesn't offend me to be used but it does appear to rear it's head much more often when people are trying to upset Eutrusca or people who get riled equally by such things.
If it makes you feel better, I hardly ever reply to Eut, when I can help it, and my use of 'USian' is only in writing, and used just as often outside this forum as in it. When speaking, just say US citizen, or something like that.

In what instance? This is becoming quite non sequitur.

We are discussing your argument that French use americain to refer to US citizens and that we should all therefore use Americans in english to refer to US citizens. Why the french language should be the authority in this instance and not spanish where it means "united stater" is beyond me but that was your point.

I'm saying it doesn't fly because some parts of the french-speaking population (but not France, it seems) use États-Uniens so your argument is sort of on wobbly legs.

And why did I typed this all in english when we both speak french is also an amusing quirk I like to point out.

Yes, this is the point I was making. It doesn't offend me to be used but it does appear to rear it's head much more often when people are trying to upset Eutrusca or people who get riled equally by such things.

That's the funny bit. I'm the one who used it today in another thread to respond to something Eutrusca said. He told me that he found it insulting. I wrote that I had not intended to insult him. And now we're at 40+ pages and I'm feeling grumpy and tired (but I'm going to the hippo races!)

I know I've gotten my back up because of the people who have basically demanded that I stop using the term 'OR ELSE'. I certainly don't mean it in an offensive way, but much as I object to being told I am lying when I most certainly am not, I object to people telling me what my motivations are.

Okay, let's look for middle ground. Would you say that you SOMETIMES use the term because you know it annoys Eut or others like him?

No, I'm completely unsurprised that a French person would denigrate the French spoken in Canada, and dismiss it so easily. We know how hard you try to control the language.

And are you characterising French Canadians as such...you know...there are French speakers in Canada outside of Quebec...and in any case, your dismisal of a French speaker from Quebec looks an awful lot like superiority...do you deny that the word he gave exists? Or do you think that only the French Canadians use such terms? Because I use the term USian? Wow. When I say US citizen, do you still believe that?

Defend all you want...but just because you say "American" in French, does not mean all French speakers follow your lead.

How did I denigrate Canadian French? I simply said that the word "états-unien" is not common usage in France, which is true. Don't listen to me though, I obviously try to personally control the language, since I belong to the Académie Française. Obviously there are Canadian francophones outside of Québec. I have no problem with US citizen, but I think that it's condescending to use "Usian." It just sounds like you're looking to pick a fight, and you are.

Eurasia can be either. They are seperated by mountains and rivers and the Caspian and Black seas. Africa is just as connectied to them as South America is to North America. In fact, moreso I believe. Also the Americas are not connected even, there is the Panama Canal
If Eurasia can be either two or one, why can't America? The Panama canal is artificial, it doesn't count as a real separation.

Originally Posted by Iztatepopotla
So you agree that Eurasia is one continent, yet you listed them as separate continents. Why is that?

Euro - Asian border (from N to S):
*Mountain Ural
*River Ural
*NW coast of Caspian sea
*Border between Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan (Europe) and Turkey and Iran (Asia) - this part is also known as Caucasus.
*Nortern coast of Black sea
*Border between Bulgaria and Greece (Europe) and Turkey (Asia)
*All islands in Mediterran sea, except Cyprus

Smunkee makes an excellent point. The name is "United States of AMERICA." We get MEXICANS from the United States of Mexico (or whatever derivative thereof). It seems the NOUN part of the name gets the emphasis for shortening. "Republic of X" residents usually call themselves "X-ians" or "X-ese" or "X-ers".

As much as I hate to concede a point to something that's usually argued on the basis of a thinly veiled superiority complex, "Americans" seems perfectly valid. So goes the name, so goes the collective noun.

Okay, let's look for middle ground. Would you say that you SOMETIMES use the term because you know it annoys Eut or others like him?
So far, only in THIS thread. You USian you.

When I first 'discovered' the term, it was a relief, because I was tired of constantly repeating the only two other phrases I was comfortable with, US citizen and citizen of the US.

In fact, though I know it doesn't have a negative connotation for you, to me "American" to refer to people from the US is something negative in my mind. Kind of like how I would consider some of you yanquis, and some of you not...something about the word "American" to me, sounds like I'm trying to insult you.

BTW, does anyone know why the Russian geographers called the USA "Североамериканские Соединённые Штаты" (North American United States) up to some point in the 1930s? I honestly haven't a clue.

How did I denigrate Canadian French? I simply said that the word "états-unien" is not common usage in France, which is true. Don't listen to me though, I obviously try to personally control the language, since I belong to the Académie Française. Obviously there are Canadian francophones outside of Québec. I have no problem with US citizen, but I think that it's condescending to use "Usian." It just sounds like you're looking to pick a fight, and you are.
Sorry, I don't recognise your English. It doesn't appear to be Canadian English, and is therefore invalid.

But you denigrated East Canuk. You basically told him to shut up because he is from Quebec. Either that, or you don't consider his French to count.

I understand the point and I'm not offended by people's use of the term. I do think it's remarkably arrogant however. You have been very reasonable. I notice some of those on your side and some on my side are becoming less so. If only they could see our lovefest and cast aside their differences and their clothes and join us. ;)
Good. Then I'll let you talk to your people while we sing Kumbaya. We'll wait for you to brings us a list of things you want to be called and we'll discuss it. ;)

This is pointless...
I have always called them Americans.Why?
Becouse there the citisens of the United States of America .
Same as I'm a Serb becouse I live in Serbia (well actualy becouse i'm of Serbian origin, but you get the point).I'm not a Serbo-Montengrin just becouse i live in the federation of Serbia and Montenegro.Just becouse someone is in US you can't call him USian (Besides it sounds stupid).
Oh and It seems that the USA are the only country with America in it.The rest are called Mexico,Brazil etc.

Oh, but he does. He was a big fan of yours, but even he called you citizens of the US, not 'Americans'.

Did he call us United Statesian, which is the term you said has ALWAYS been used? What book? Could you please give a better reference than just an author.

And you are being obtuse.

No, I'm not. You want me to search all of the works of all of those authors. I'm very willing to look, but you need to be less vague.

I said the term has always been used, not that it was always used in place of 'American'. Reread that post and you'll find this to be the case. It is not a new invention of the past 50 years in Spanish, Portuguese and French, no matter how much you want it to be.

If it's always been used, then it should appear in writing somewhere, no? You should have a plethora of references and I'm just asking for a few that don't only give me authors. You are aware of the number of works by Mr. Neruda, no? I would just like to not spend a few weeks trying to find the use of the term.

My point is that we already have an English word that we use to refer to ourselves that you've used for 200 years. You are making a new term for something that already works. It's not done out of necessity and you know it. You argue it to get under the skin of people like Eut because you know that it does and you don't like him. Come on, don't act like I don't have you pegged. This isn't innocent and that's why it's championed by people who enjoyed stirring the pot like you and Fass.

I say have fun. But since the majority of the world uses Americans and the majority of the world is more courteous than you're being, I don't really suspect you'll have too much success.

I see. So I guess I can call you Jocabia's woman. It apparently doesn't matter what you call yourself or whether you find my name for you offensive or annoying. All that matters is what I want to call you. Otherwise, I'm appeasing your ego.

I don't insist you do anything. I believe it's polite. If you choose not to be polite that is your choice, Sinuhue.
LMAO! Great post! Yayyy! [ cheers for Jocabia! ] :D

We are discussing your argument that French use americain to refer to US citizens and that we should all therefore use Americans in english to refer to US citizens. Why the french language should be the authority in this instance and not spanish where it means "united stater" is beyond me but that was your point.

I'm saying it doesn't fly because some parts of the french-speaking population (but not France, it seems) use États-Uniens so your argument is sort of on wobbly legs.

And why did I typed this all in english when we both speak french is also an amusing quirk I like to point out.

French is not the authority on the subject, but since others on this board were using Spanish as a counter-example, I felt obliged to note the common term in France. Also, France has an (almost entirely francophone) population of around 63 000 000, which I believe is greater than the number of Canadian francophones.

And I agree that it's ironic to be having this discussion in English. However, since this is an English-speaking board (the URL is even ".uk,") I feel obliged to speak English.

Good. Then I'll let you talk to your people while we sing Kumbaya. We'll wait for you to brings us a list of things you want to be called and we'll discuss it. ;)

Okay, if I have to calm down Eut, then I'm drinking. I know it's only 3PM on a Thursday, but I suspect that this isn't going to go quickly. And Sinuhue better be more relaxed and wearing a grass skirt when I get back.

Euro - Asian border (from N to S):
*Mountain Ural
*River Ural
*NW coast of Caspian sea
*Border between Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan (Europe) and Turkey and Iran (Asia) - this part is also known as Caucasus.
*Nortern coast of Black sea
*Border between Bulgaria and Greece (Europe) and Turkey (Asia)
*All islands in Mediterran sea, except Cyprus
I notice your limits follow a few national borders, including Greece and Turkey (and not the Bosphorus). Kind of arbitrary, don't you think?

How about calling them Humans?

While we're at it, why not call everyone that?
Fine with me, but Sinuhue would strenuously object. First, it's not "specific" enough for her refined tastes, and second, she really doesn't believe that Americans are human. :rolleyes:

We like to be called American. An NS forum is actually a good place to say why. You know how your nation is the ___ of ___? We are the United States of America. And, if I'm not mistaken, we are the only nation that actually has the word "America" in it.

Here's a more interesting confusion: I'm Albanian. Am I from W. Australia, Albania, Nova Scotia, Ontario, Prince Edward Island, 21 of the United States, South Africa, or some other place that starts with Alban-. The Answer? New York.

Also, France has an (almost entirely francophone) population of around 63 000 000, which I believe is greater than the number of Canadian francophones.
He, it's greater than the number of Canadians :D

That's why I've always argued. Mexican Spanish should be the de factor Spanish. There are 110 million of us, more than any othe Spanish speaking country. But do they listen to me? Do they? Nooo, they don't.

* goes off to join Jocabia for a drink *

Smunkee makes an excellent point. The name is "United States of AMERICA." We get MEXICANS from the United States of Mexico (or whatever derivative thereof). It seems the NOUN part of the name gets the emphasis for shortening. "Republic of X" residents usually call themselves "X-ians" or "X-ese" or "X-ers".

As much as I hate to concede a point to something that's usually argued on the basis of a thinly veiled superiority complex, "Americans" seems perfectly valid. So goes the name, so goes the collective noun.
Why yes, it IS valid. But the thing is that it refers to two groups of people. So we have to specify which one we refer too. This is where the term USian comes from, a way to differenciate between those of the United States of America and those (much greater) living on the American continent.

It comes from the problem that the founding fathers agreed on a word that causes problems as it acquired for itself a term that used to refer to some other peoples.

Sorry, I don't recognise your English. It doesn't appear to be Canadian English, and is therefore invalid.

But you denigrated East Canuk. You basically told him to shut up because he is from Quebec. Either that, or you don't consider his French to count.

Wait... so non-Canadian anglophones speak invalid English? Ouch! I wonder what everyone else on this board has to say about that!

I realize my comment to EastCanuk was harsher than I meant it to sound, but I was just trying to say that I believe most francophones call Americans "américains."

I've discussed it with the rest of the former United States Americans and we decided we would like to be called the United States of Jocabia. You can call us Jocabians. It appears things are settled here.

Wine and face-painting for everyone, as is the tradition for country renaming ceremonies.

Did he call us United Statesian, which is the term you said has ALWAYS been used? What book? Could you please give a better reference than just an author. *sigh* To prove to you something that is so bloody obvious...you are really being a pain in my ass. Does it have to be in English? No. Good. But no...forget it, Jocabia. You're asking me to prove a linguistic fact. Estadounidense is the official name for citizens of the USA. Not Americano. Both terms can be used, but the word Estadounidense did not rear it's head scant decades ago. Do a quick search...google estadounidense, then google americano. See how many hits refer to citizens of the US when you search americano.

I'm not going to try to prove to you something you would know if you spoke Spanish.

Did he call us United Statesian, which is the term you said has ALWAYS been used? What book? Could you please give a better reference than just an author.


Eduardo Galeano, Century of the Wind, Pantheon Books, New York, 1986, translated by Cedric Belfrage (think he was teased as a little boy?):

In the Industrial Era, El Dorado is the United States; and the United States is America.
To the south, the other America hasn't yet managed to mumble its own name.

Galeano is talking about exactly this debate. Hope that helps.

Fine with me, but Sinuhue would strenuously object. First, it's not "specific" enough for her refined tastes, and second, she really doesn't believe that Americans are human. :rolleyes:
Link please? :rolleyes:

Or are you only here to poke jabs at others? :rolleyes:

I notice your limits follow a few national borders, including Greece and Turkey (and not the Bosphorus). Kind of arbitrary, don't you think?

In most Euro maps Turkish possesions in Europe aren't considered as part of continent. It is maybe politically, but that is how things are.

He, it's greater than the number of Canadians :D

That's why I've always argued. Mexican Spanish should be the de factor Spanish. There are 110 million of us, more than any othe Spanish speaking country. But do they listen to me? Do they? Nooo, they don't.

* goes off to join Jocabia for a drink *

You're right. If I'm not mistaken, though, most American schools teach Latin American, if not just Mexican, Spanish.

Link does not work. This one does:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/uk.html

The second half witnessed the dismantling of the Empire and the UK rebuilding itself into a modern and prosperous European nation.

the only problem have with it is that it doesn't have Lincoln in the city lists

LMAO! Great post! Yayyy! [ cheers for Jocabia! ] :D
I believe it is called spam, when you add nothing to a thread and simply 'cheer' over and over...

Get over yourself.
You seem somehow obsessed with this phrase. Strange.

I've discussed it with the rest of the former United States Americans and we decided we would like to be called the United States of Jocabia. You can call us Jocabians. It appears things are settled here.

Wine and face-painting for everyone, as is the tradition for country renaming ceremonies.

I believe that there is a mathematical operation called "jacobian" that refers to changing the basis of a coördinate system. If we're not careful, they'll think Americans are all mathematicians!

Wait... so non-Canadian anglophones speak invalid English? Ouch! I wonder what everyone else on this board has to say about that!

I realize my comment to EastCanuk was harsher than I meant it to sound, but I was just trying to say that I believe most francophones call Americans "américains."
And I pointed how that argument is specious. So let's all be friends and follow Jocabia's advice and call them Jocabians.

Fine with me, but Sinuhue would strenuously object. First, it's not "specific" enough for her refined tastes, and second, she really doesn't believe that Americans are human. :rolleyes:
What a ridiculous thing to say.You haven't the slightest idea of what I think about USians. You, on the other hand, I have very little respect for, as you are a master of snide, contemptuous, condescending and arrogant remarks to anyone and all who does not agree with you. That, in addition to being the first to run to moderation when anyone so much as tickles your thin skin.

And yes, please do provide a single instance of me saying that USians are not human.

We like to be called American. An NS forum is actually a good place to say why. You know how your nation is the ___ of ___? We are the United States of America. And, if I'm not mistaken, we are the only nation that actually has the word "America" in it.

Here's a more interesting confusion: I'm Albanian. Am I from W. Australia, Albania, Nova Scotia, Ontario, Prince Edward Island, 21 of the United States, South Africa, or some other place that starts with Alban-. The Answer? New York.

You're Shqiperi (or something like that)

Eduardo Galeano, Century of the Wind, Pantheon Books, New York, 1986, translated by Cedric Belfrage (think he was teased as a little boy?):



Galeano is talking about exactly this debate. Hope that helps.

In 1986. Again, I said before the last half century can anyone find an example. I know that it is a new phenomenon. Sin claimed it's not. I would consider 20 years ago, new.

*sigh* To prove to you something that is so bloody obvious...you are really being a pain in my ass. Does it have to be in English? No. Good. But no...forget it, Jocabia. You're asking me to prove a linguistic fact. Estadounidense is the official name for citizens of the USA. Not Americano. Both terms can be used, but the word Estadounidense did not rear it's head scant decades ago. Do a quick search...google estadounidense, then google americano. See how many hits refer to citizens of the US when you search americano.

I'm not going to try to prove to you something you would know if you spoke Spanish.

That would be fine if we were argueing in Spanish on a Spanish board. But, since we're argueing in English on an English speaking board, the word is "American". :p

Wait... so non-Canadian anglophones speak invalid English? Ouch! I wonder what everyone else on this board has to say about that!

I realize my comment to EastCanuk was harsher than I meant it to sound, but I was just trying to say that I believe most francophones call Americans "américains."Takes a breath.

Ok. I'm sorry I over reacted. I just didn't like the tone of your comment towards a Canadian francophone, and felt you were dismissing his contribution.

In most Euro maps Turkish possesions in Europe aren't considered as part of continent. It is maybe politically, but that is how things are.
"Turkish possesions in Europe" So you admit that west of the Bosphorus is Europe, but for some reason, probably political, mapmakers don't see it as that.

Hmm... I wonder how this relates to our problem of America / Americas...

And I pointed how that argument is specious. So let's all be friends and follow Jocabia's advice and call them Jocabians.

Actually, I think it's a valid point. Most people use the word without any confusion at all, so trying to force people to change their vocabulary serves no point, except to make them mad.

In 1986. Again, I said before the last half century can anyone find an example. I know that it is a new phenomenon. Sin claimed it's not. I would consider 20 years ago, new.

Yeah, but is was the only book I had on hand.

Eduardo Galeano, Century of the Wind, Pantheon Books, New York, 1986, translated by Cedric Belfrage (think he was teased as a little boy?):



Galeano is talking about exactly this debate. Hope that helps.It won't count...that's less than 50 years ago:D

You're Shqiperi (or something like that)
Strangely, although Albanians call their country Shqiptarçë, they take offense at being called Shqiptari, or at least they did in Greece and Yugoslavia when I was there. :confused:

I'm still trying to figure out how many other nations in North or South America have the word America in their name. None.

I've been to several countries and never has any of them identified themselves by their continent. No one says, "I'm Asian", unless they are a bananna. The only one that do are Australians, but maybe its coincidence, it happens to be the name of their country too.

You're French, British, German, Italian, South African, Libyan, Ethiopian, Iranian, Syrian, Vietnamese, Chinese, Japanese, Argentinian, Mexican, and everything else that is a derivative of the name of the country. Thus, America. You are not South American, North American, European, Asian, or African. I mean you would have to call yourself a North American, not an American anyway, so what's your beef?

You are obviously hung up about it, since it annoys you to say citizen of the United States. You can't call us Americans because it galls you. You know it and while you might play it off otherwise, deep down you know its true.