NationStates Jolt Archive

I think its just that to cast out the boogeymans you have to wear the Magical Jahoosifat Hat, and you forgot to wear the magical hat.
Oh yes, of course, how careless of me.

Oh yes, of course, how careless of me.


Yeah, i have this bridge you can buy.

If you buy it, i'll give you a free Magical Jahoosifat Hat.

You would of course not consult me, but as a Christian I believe that you yourself would know that there was a demon there.
I would pray. And either speak with my pastor friends or confront the demon myself.
I'm not a Christian. I already mentioned in an earlier post that, in keeping with my belief system, if I was confronted by an actual demon, I would treat it just the same as I would any other person who was doing something I wanted them to stop doing -- provided they were doing something I wanted them to stop doing. And, of course, *after* I got over my initial surprise at meeting a demon that was not created by my own mind.

As to my belief system, please see my post 161, in which I said "I'm just some godless heathen who isn't right with Christ," by which I mean an animist. See, I actually do believe in the existence of spirits, but the kinds of demons you are describing -- sorry, but we humans give birth to those ourselves.

I'm not a Christian. I already mentioned in an earlier post that, in keeping with my belief system, if I was confronted by an actual demon, I would treat it just the same as I would any other person who was doing something I wanted them to stop doing -- provided they were doing something I wanted them to stop doing. And, of course, *after* I got over my initial surprise at meeting a demon that was not created by my own mind.

As to my belief system, please see my post 161, in which I said "I'm just some godless heathen who isn't right with Christ," by which I mean an animist. See, I actually do believe in the existence of spirits, but the kinds of demons you are describing -- sorry, but we humans give birth to those ourselves.
Oh, sorry. I am so out of it. I think I am going to get back to work now. This has been interesting, but Annassah is getting impatient and there is a lot of work to be.
I will be back. Some time. Until then.

Yeah, i have this bridge you can buy.

If you buy it, i'll give you a free Magical Jahoosifat Hat.

Sounds like a good deal!

Unfortunately, I'm short on cash at the moment as all my funds are tied up overseas.
If you can loan be a bit of money to cut through the red tape and allow me to access my vast fortune, I'll repay you 10x the loan amount and we can negotiate this bridge deal.

Oh, sorry. I am so out of it. I think I am going to get back to work now. This has been interesting, but Annassah is getting impatient and there is a lot of work to be.
I will be back. Some time. Until then.


Hey, what if you're hitting a boogeyman demon with your stick and a leprechaun bites you?

As to my belief system, please see my post 161, in which I said "I'm just some godless heathen who isn't right with Christ," by which I mean an animist.

Yeah, I like Anime too. :)

I don't want to start anything. I want to help those who need, whether it is end times or some sort of persecution. I am in the Middle East for reasons which I cannot say. Part of it is because of some deserts.

I think it is an oppertunity. I don't know to do what or anything, but when it comes I will reconize it. And, who better to get advice from then random strangers when you don't want people to know who you are exactly?
You're a pastry chef? Oh, well, more power to you, then.


(Note: I'm assuming you meant "desserts" because it's no secret that there are deserts in the Middle East.)

Oh, sorry. I am so out of it. I think I am going to get back to work now. This has been interesting, but Annassah is getting impatient and there is a lot of work to be.
I will be back. Some time. Until then.
Have fun on Christ's kibbutz! :)

Yeah, I like Anime too. :)
Yeah, well, I'm not one of those "every detail is the Living Word(tm)" fundies. I'm totally committed to Samurai Champloo, but Ghost in the Shell: SAC sucks. ;)

To OLD WHAT'S HIS NAME, who asked me, pages and pages ago, which Salem Witch Trials documentary I was going on about: Sorry, old bean, the History Channel has updated its listings and I couldn't find the show, as I couldn't remember the exact title. So much for our institutions, eh?

And on this note, night-night.

What do you think about demons? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be. The reason I am asking is lately I have had them on my mind a lot. I know that I need to fight them, but I don't know how. Also now adays you never hear about people being possessed. It may be because now we would think that they are just mentally retarded. Any thoughts?
I can help you. Most people on here are unbelievers, therefore if the demons are real, they can't do anything for, not even advice.
If you want the help, send me a telegram. I've dealt with such beings before and know their weaknesses.

I am not a puritan. I am a Calvinist to a point, I agree with most of TULIP.
Really? I'm more of a Hobbes fan myself.

I am in the Middle East for reasons which I cannot say. Part of it is because of some deserts.
Read: He's in his bedroom at his mum's place. I've read some of this guy's posts b4 and he's a fruitloop. He just makes shit up. I'm betting he's like 38 and still living with his parents.

Read: He's in his bedroom at his mum's place. I've read some of this guy's posts b4 and he's a fruitloop. He just makes shit up. I'm betting he's like 38 and still living with his parents.

Even if he or she is making stuff up, he or she is a lot nicer than you are.

What do you think about demons? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be. The reason I am asking is lately I have had them on my mind a lot. I know that I need to fight them, but I don't know how. Also now adays you never hear about people being possessed. It may be because now we would think that they are just mentally retarded. Any thoughts?


The Bible certainly takes demons seriously. I personally don't know much about them, but have read CS Lewis' Screwtape Letters, and have read a few other books that touched on the subject.

The Bible teaches that there is a spiritual battle raging for the souls of humans. The Bible also teaches that we can take part in the battle by prayer and by doing the will of God. Christ is the captain of the hosts of heaven and the head of the church, the body of Christ. So the victory lies with him. Our role, then, is to do his will, which is partnering in the work that he is doing, according to the scriptures.

Many will scoff, of course, just like they did with Noah. Jesus predicted this in the gospels. And some of the new testament writers, like Paul and Peter also mentioned this.

I suppose it is human nature to scoff at something one feels is untrue or ridiculous, but it could also be that scoffing is a sign of ignorance. Someone once said that mocking was the refuge of the ignorant.

Science has nothing to say about demons, so we get no help from it in this subject.

Even if he or she is making stuff up, he or she is a lot nicer than you are.

If I had to pick a housemate out of these two, I'd still pick Demented Hamsters ;)

If I had to pick a housemate out of these two, I'd still pick Demented Hamsters ;)

Better the evil you know than the one you don't, or something like that??

Better the evil you know than the one you don't, or something like that??

I'd just go for the one that seems more stable, is all.

What do you think about demons? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be. The reason I am asking is lately I have had them on my mind a lot. I know that I need to fight them, but I don't know how. Also now adays you never hear about people being possessed. It may be because now we would think that they are just mentally retarded. Any thoughts?
Demons are guardian angels who look out for our fortune. I believed in them when I was a child; now I understand them as a part of who we are.

What do you think about demons? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be. The reason I am asking is lately I have had them on my mind a lot. I know that I need to fight them, but I don't know how. Also now adays you never hear about people being possessed. It may be because now we would think that they are just mentally retarded. Any thoughts?
NS General has gone all medieval is what i think


*clicks lighter*

ooh fire from his fingers!! :eek:
:rolleyes:

Should the demons of Christian mythology in fact exist, I see no reason to fear them. Neither the demons nor Satan himself ever do anything cool enough to warrant it.

I'd just go for the one that seems more stable, is all.

Sounds like you have been watching far too many of those type of movies.

Should the demons of Christian mythology in fact exist, I see no reason to fear them. Neither the demons nor Satan himself ever do anything cool enough to warrant it.
They posess people who later are influences for Hollywood movies.

Sounds like you have been watching far too many of those type of movies.

What types?

What types?

You know, where the religious types have this kinda loopy side to them that is hidden beneath a very pleasant exterior, and is only shown in certain situations.

Perhaps most of the religious movies (or more like movies with a major religious-like character) have something of this flavour. The movie 'Seven' comes to mind (Brad Pitt). There are all those Stephen King movies also. What is with Holywood and the creepy religious types?
I've met hundreds of religious people, and the creepy unstable ones can be counted on one hand. On the other hand, I have met a good deal more creepy non-religious people, particularly late at night hanging around outside a popular bar. Of course, some of these people could be religious, but they don't sound at all like Keyi, who appears to be concerned for people in general.

Personally, I would rather someone like Keyi than Demented Hamsters, but perhaps that is because I am not assuming that being religious must mean instability.

You know, where the religious types have this kinda loopy side to them that is hidden beneath a very pleasant exterior, and is only shown in certain situations.

Perhaps most of the religious movies (or more like movies with a major religious-like character) have something of this flavour. The movie 'Seven' comes to mind (Brad Pitt). There are all those Stephen King movies also. What is with Holywood and the creepy religious types?
I've met hundreds of religious people, and the creepy unstable ones can be counted on one hand. On the other hand, I have met a good deal more creepy non-religious people, particularly late at night hanging around outside a popular bar. Of course, some of these people could be religious, but they don't sound at all like Keyi, who appears to be concerned for people in general.

Personally, I would rather someone like Keyi than Demented Hamsters, but perhaps that is because I am not assuming that being religious must mean instability.

I've never seen any of those, I don't like stereotyplical Hollywood movies.
Most religious people I know are pretty stable. But then, most of them don't feel haunted by demons, either. Go figure.

My demons all left. They can't stand me anymore. I don't think that's a good thing.

I was possessed once by a demon. No one was able to tell the difference.

Demons are cool. Jesus is a liar. The bible is propaganda. Possession gives one cool supernatural powers. Just give in to it dude. Demons are the shit.

I've never seen any of those, I don't like stereotyplical Hollywood movies.

In that case, I take back my comments about you watching too many movies.


Most religious people I know are pretty stable. But then, most of them don't feel haunted by demons, either. Go figure.

I don't think the OP was going on about being haunted by demons, only concerned about their influence on the generally unsuspecting population.

If you or I were demons, and if we were set on destroying the human race, or at least causing it as much misery as possible, would it not be a clever trick to have half the people believe that we did not exist (and then set to misleading them from the truth as much as possible, working undetected) and have the other half know that we exist and fear us too much to have any serious regard for the truth.

What do you think about demons? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be. The reason I am asking is lately I have had them on my mind a lot. I know that I need to fight them, but I don't know how. Also now adays you never hear about people being possessed. It may be because now we would think that they are just mentally retarded. Any thoughts?
Demons are excuses, nothing more and nothing less. Often they are used as excuses for ignorance, by people who are too cowardly and arrogant to admit that they simply don't understand what is happening in the world. More often they are excuses for people who either want to do things they know are wrong, or who don't want to have to stand up against wrongs that others are committing.

It's easy to blame a problem on a demon, and it's nice to be able to escape any practical responsibility for evils by insisting that they result from supernatural forces. It's even better when you can come up with your own bullshit ways of "fighting demons," which conveniently never seem to involve actually contributing anything helpful or meaningful to the world. Demons are for the lazy, the unimaginative, and the selfish. They are an expression of the weakest and most helpless aspects of the human psyche.

Now, cyborg zombie ninjas on the other hand...

I don't want to start anything. I want to help those who need, whether it is end times or some sort of persecution. I am in the Middle East for reasons which I cannot say. Part of it is because of some deserts.

I think it is an oppertunity. I don't know to do what or anything, but when it comes I will reconize it. And, who better to get advice from then random strangers when you don't want people to know who you are exactly?

I will attest to this.
Although there are a very few people who I have spoken to about things I've done, and shown them, it's not something I would share with just anyone face-to-face. It's a lot easier to discuss spiritual 'oddities' online.

Sorry if this has been asked before in this thread; but what makes you believe that demons exist?

If I had to pick a housemate out of these two, I'd still pick Demented Hamsters ;)
Yay!!! Someone likes me!
It's fluffle time!
:fluffle:

I'd just go for the one that seems more stable, is all.
Oh, wait. They don't really know me afterall. (start to twitch and blink rapidly)

My demons all left. They can't stand me anymore. I don't think that's a good thing.

I was possessed once by a demon. No one was able to tell the difference.
We knew cause for a while you had lousy taste in clothes. We were just too polite to mention it.

Sorry if this has been asked before in this thread; but what makes you believe that demons exist?
They are the ones who take the socks from the washing machine. And only the good socks, the bastards.

Demons? They appear a lot in anime and hentai (some of the cooler ones, that is). Do the demons you're worried about have tentacles or are they succubi or what?

Either the OP is laughing his/her ass off right now or belongs in a mental institution.

You know what would be nice?
Private forums. Do they exist around here?
Sometimes I think it would be nice to get a few people who are serious about a topic, and then go to a nice private forum where you don't get random people popping by to say, "I think you're completely nuts!" or a string of sarcastic comments just because they have never experienced anything similar, so it must be false.
Cuz after leaving last night, I was hoping to come back and find the spirited conversation to have continued, rather than 3 pages of crap, with a couple interesting posts. :(

You know what would be nice?
Private forums. Do they exist around here?
Sometimes I think it would be nice to get a few people who are serious about a topic, and then go to a nice private forum where you don't get random people popping by to say, "I think you're completely nuts!" or a string of sarcastic comments just because they have never experienced anything similar, so it must be false.
Cuz after leaving last night, I was hoping to come back and find the spirited conversation to have continued, rather than 3 pages of crap, with a couple interesting posts. :(

Some of the crap is funny though. On the other hand, it's a pity they couldn't laugh about something less serious.

Some of the crap is funny though. On the other hand, it's a pity they couldn't laugh about something less serious.

Well, yeah, some of it's amusing. And it's not like this is the only thread that's ever been hijacked. :p I've seen it happen lots. Usually I'm pretty used to it, but usually I haven't read every page of a topic, either. ;)

Some of the crap is funny though. On the other hand, it's a pity they couldn't laugh about something less serious.
The only thing serious about demons is the serious ammount of ignorant superstition that goes along with belief in them and the serious consequences of such superstition. Like for example, belief in demons results in the deaths of kids and sometimes adults during "exorcism" rituals (though not usually Catholic exorcisms).

The only thing serious about demons is the serious ammount of ignorant superstition that goes along with belief in them and the serious consequences of such superstition. Like for example, belief in demons results in the deaths of kids and sometimes adults during "exorcism" rituals (though not usually Catholic exorcisms).

Obviously that is your opinion, mate, but you could be as mislead as one of those poor mislead people in a silly 'exorcism' ritual. It's not like you have any proof.

My opinion is that demons do exist, only they are more intelligent than the average human, and have manage to fool many of them that they are only a figment of some people's imagination. I mean, just how hard would it be to play some games when you are invisible?

Obviously that is your opinion, mate, but you could be as mislead as one of those poor mislead people in a silly 'exorcism' ritual. It's not like you have any proof.

My opinion is that demons do exist, only they are more intelligent than the average human, and have manage to fool many of them that they are only a figment of some people's imagination. I mean, just how hard would it be to play some games when you are invisible?
Got any evidence of demons?

Obviously that is your opinion, mate, but you could be as mislead as one of those poor mislead people in a silly 'exorcism' ritual. It's not like you have any proof.

My opinion is that demons do exist, only they are more intelligent than the average human, and have manage to fool many of them that they are only a figment of some people's imagination. I mean, just how hard would it be to play some games when you are invisible?



Hey, what if you were chasing after a demon with a stick to hit him and then you got bit by an elf?

Obviously that is your opinion, mate, but you could be as mislead as one of those poor mislead people in a silly 'exorcism' ritual. It's not like you have any proof.

My opinion is that demons do exist, only they are more intelligent than the average human, and have manage to fool many of them that they are only a figment of some people's imagination. I mean, just how hard would it be to play some games when you are invisible?
See, but that is where you've gone wrong. It's not the demons you have to worry about, it's the pixies and the invisible magic tigers.

All of whom are substantially more intelligent than many humans, as evidenced by this thread topic...

Got any evidence of demons?

Wish I did... sadly, I've only had God's existence proven to me.
But, just because I can't personally prove something doesn't automatically make it impossible, either.

Wish I did... sadly, I've only had God's existence proven to me.
But, just because I can't personally prove something doesn't automatically make it impossible, either.

So you wish that demons existed?:eek:

Hey, what if you were chasing after a demon with a stick to hit him and then you got bit by an elf?
Anyone with half a brain knows that you don't try to hit a spirit with a stick, silly.

I dislike religion for warping peoples' minds like this, and I want to say so much about it, but I'm gonna restrain myself and stop here before I go on a rant that may get me banned.

Anyone with half a brain knows that you don't try to hit a spirit with a stick, silly.


Well, i meant a magical stick.

What if a flying gnome bit you while you were trying to hit the demon with the magical stick??

Got any evidence of demons?

Well, not right on me. But if I did, how would I prove it to you anyway?

Have you any evidence that there isn't any demons?

What sort of question is that, anyway?

Well, i meant a magical stick.

What if a flying gnome bit you while you were trying to hit the demon with the magical stick??

What is a magical stick?

So you wish that demons existed?:eek:

Haha! Not necessarily. I wish I had proof. That could be one way or the other. :)

Anyone with half a brain knows that you don't try to hit a spirit with a stick, silly.
That's right. Anyone with half a brain knows that you use magic water and a couple of sticks shaped into a plus sign.

What if a flying gnome bit you while you were trying to hit the demon with the magical stick??

I imagine that the first order of business would be to call the vet, and make sure that the gnome's rabies shots were current.

That's right. Anyone with half a brain knows that you use magic water and a couple of sticks shaped into a plus sign.

Really! I must confess, I did not know that. Pray tell, where did you get such information from?

Well, not right on me. But if I did, how would I prove it to you anyway?

Have you any evidence that there isn't any demons?

What sort of question is that, anyway?

Why don't you just say "I don't know" if there's no evidence for or against them?

Why don't you just say "I don't know" if there's no evidence for or against them?

For the same reason that people who don't believe in them don't say "I don't know." Faith. ;)

Why don't you just say "I don't know" if there's no evidence for or against them?

Well, I have to say that I don't know, based on personal experience, but you see, there is this book called the Bible, and I have personally found much in the Bible that is true. Therefore, if I find that I can trust the Bible in areas of my life that can be personally confirmed, why would I not trust it also in areas that are outside of personal experience?

Plus, I have heard first hand accounts from people who have had personal experiences with demons, some of those people being my close friends. Why would I doubt their evidence? Particularly when they have demonstrated that they are reasonably honest people.

For the same reason that people who don't believe in them don't say "I don't know." Faith. ;)

But why have faith in something you have no proof for or against? Not even -no- proof against, there's logic and science to lead you to believe such things don't exist.

For the same reason that people who don't believe in them don't say "I don't know." Faith. ;)

What motivates the faith?

Well, I have to say that I don't know, based on personal experience, but you see, there is this book called the Bible, and I have personally found much in the Bible that is true. Therefore, if I find that I can trust the Bible in areas of my life that can be personally confirmed, why would I not trust it also in areas that are outside of personal experience?

Plus, I have heard first hand accounts from people who have had personal experiences with demons, some of those people being my close friends. Why would I doubt their evidence? Particularly when they have demonstrated that they are reasonably honest people.

A reasonable and honest person is not immune to deception and wishful thinking.

Well, I have to say that I don't know, based on personal experience, but you see, there is this book called the Bible, and I have personally found much in the Bible that is true. Therefore, if I find that I can trust the Bible in areas of my life that can be personally confirmed, why would I not trust it also in areas that are outside of personal experience?

Plus, I have heard first hand accounts from people who have had personal experiences with demons, some of those people being my close friends. Why would I doubt their evidence? Particularly when they have demonstrated that they are reasonably honest people.

Because people are fallable. Their minds can play tricks on them - I've had friends who believed in ghosts and demons and such, and they told me on a regular basis that they were interacting and fighting with them, and I knew it was bullshit regardless of whether or not they believed it to have really happened.

They're fairytales. Stories. Legends. Metaphors for human cruelty. Nothing more.

If you want to fight demons, start by fighting the demons inside everyone around you. Greed, anger, hate, discrimination - start with those demons.

But why have faith in something you have no proof for or against? Not even -no- proof against, there's logic and science to lead you to believe such things don't exist.

I do have proof of God.
I'm rather ambivalent about demons, myself. They may or may not exist. It doesn't really matter, in the end.
And science has never disproven the existence of God. I quite often blend science and God, because they're not mutually exclusive.

But why have faith in something you have no proof for or against? Not even -no- proof against, there's logic and science to lead you to believe such things don't exist.

You have seriously misunderstood science if you think science says that there are no such thing as demons. Science doesn't even go there. As for logic, it is perfectly logical to accept that demons may exist, even to believe that they do exist. It depends on your reasons, of course.

What motivates the faith?

Personal experience, which I tested over and over again. Because, like so many here, I had a lot of rational problems with blind faith and belief.
I had turned to God to save me (in a body and soul sort of way) but when I was given gifts, I couldn't believe it. I would often try to find ways to disprove things, only to have it all work out.
The only conclusion I could come to was that God was real, and He loved me a great deal more than I had ever loved myself. It was through trial and error that I came to know God, which I like more than, "I believe because I always have."

You have seriously misunderstood science if you think science says that there are no such thing as demons. Science doesn't even go there. As for logic, it is perfectly logical to accept that demons may exist, even to believe that they do exist. It depends on your reasons, of course.

Under what logic is the existence of demons plausible?

Under what logic is the existence of demons plausible?

If you believe the Bible to be literally true in all cases.
I haven't gotten to that level. I still tend to pick at it, and look at the inconsistencies within... I have faith in God, and maybe the Bible really was divinely inspired, but man had a hand in making it, and I don't always trust man. ;) Whether in the sense that man is not to be trusted, or the sense of 'how can man really illustrate what God would show them?' sort of way... I think both fit sometimes.

Buy a double edged axe, give it a name, and watch the movie Frailty for futher instruction.

I'm not jokeing this movie changed my life.

Well, not right on me. But if I did, how would I prove it to you anyway?

Have you any evidence that there isn't any demons?

What sort of question is that, anyway?
It's a legitimate question. Whether demons exist or not is an issue that can have serious consequences. For example, if a guy claims he killed a bunch of people because he was possessed, and demons are considered to be real, perhaps he shouldn't be punished. An issue of that importance should be decided by evidence, not by faith.

Oh, and since it's just about impossible to prove a negative, the burden of proof, or evidence, rests on the person making the positive statement.

I do have proof of God.
I'm rather ambivalent about demons, myself. They may or may not exist. It doesn't really matter, in the end.
And science has never disproven the existence of God. I quite often blend science and God, because they're not mutually exclusive.

This is true. I never said anything against god - I believe in and have a personal relationship with god, myself. Just so happens I'm able to do it without all the dogma and crap that comes along with the church and the bible. They're middle-men, and they only cause problems and blur the communication.

Demons, on the other hand, I don't believe in. If god wanted a magical world with demons and fairies, he would've made it that way - which he hasn't. He made a world of people, of animals, of nature. People create demons and fairies, metaphorically speaking.

Here's my breakdown:


God is to satan as saints are to demons. Saints and demons are both human incarnations of the extremes of good and evil. Personally, I don't believe in satan - not in the way you would think. If anything, he's god's puppet, used to make things more interesting. Otherwise he would just be done with him and end it with less than a blink of an eye.

So yeah. To fight demons, become a saint. Be a good person, help others, and ditch the bible, seeing as it gets in the way.

I do have proof of God.
I'm rather ambivalent about demons, myself. They may or may not exist. It doesn't really matter, in the end.
And science has never disproven the existence of God. I quite often blend science and God, because they're not mutually exclusive.
I'd be interested in proof of god.

I would like to point out that, simply because some cultures do not believe in paranormal things, as a whole, doesn't mean they don't exist, and aren't very real for others. I have read that there are beliefs in India that wizards are very, very real. So too can demons be real for people.
It's easy to offhandedly say you think the person's crazy and dismiss it.
I happen to find talking to people who believe in things a little differently to be fascinating. :)
That was the one reasonable post in this entire thread. I commend you, sir.

That was the one reasonable post in this entire thread. I commend you, sir.

Seconded. The recent posts I've read from him/her have also shown a quantity of thought to have reached the conclusion.

God controls EVERYTHING? awww.....
so... does that mean if anything (good or bad) happens to us it's his doing for some divine reason?

Dang,... he's using demons to punish us. T__T

Play Pangya to be happy. ^_^

and yeah,... lay off the hallucinogens if u think there are demons (and if ur taking them).

Seconded. The recent posts I've read from him/her have also shown a quantity of thought to have reached the conclusion.

Though it seems he doesn't take into account that, while demons and wizards -can- be real for individual people (for whatever reason), fact remains that everyone else - perfectly healthy and rational people - say otherwise. By his account, the Son of Sam wouldn't go to jail. Devil worship would be taken seriously as a matter of danger to everyone. Black magic could be an option, if someone were to think it to be, as an answer to healthcare and the economy, the environment, etc.

He doesn't realize that just because some people really believe in something, that doesn't make it real, or a valid placement of logic.

*bump*

everyone w/ half a brain knows that it's NOT magical water on sticks formed into a + shape but its HOLY water on sticks formed into a + shape to beat demonz

and laying off those hallucinogens :gundge: work too~

I don't mind giving my personal proof of God to those who want to hear it. If you want to send a telegram to my nation on NS, I can redirect you to another forum where I posted about my experiences and beliefs. I've told them to a variety of people, and shown as well... I don't know what those people believe now, but I'm reasonably sure they're no longer agnostic. ;) As for athiests, I'm not sure I've ever talked to one of them about it. People who are extremely against religion, or extremely for it (blindly) are people I generally don't talk to about this issue, because they're already pretty set in their ways, and I don't like trying to convert people. I just like story sharing. :)

Also, thanks for the compliments. Much appreciated. :) I've put a LOT of thought into the issue, looked at it from a couple different perspectives, and I've done a little bit of studying of other religions because this sort of stuff really interests me.

And to Szanth... I don't think, rationally, I could say you couldn't prosecute someone because they MIGHT have been possessed at the time. It just wouldn't hold up. I like proof of things, and unless you have a surefire way of detecting demonic possession, I don't think it could be used in any sort of legal defense. Although I do tend to think demons exist, it's not REALLY important to me. Just sort of an interest. :)

I wish I had more time for this today, but I have a ton of recruiting to do (for my psychology thesis, not religion! ;)) and then I'm headed out for the night. If this thread is still floating around tomorrow, I'll be sure to come back and see where it's gone. :)

Under what logic is the existence of demons plausible?
Under the logic that says that demons are a part of the human psyche that has been concretized over the millennia.

I don't mind giving my personal proof of God to those who want to hear it. If you want to send a telegram to my nation on NS, I can redirect you to another forum where I posted about my experiences and beliefs. I've told them to a variety of people, and shown as well... I don't know what those people believe now, but I'm reasonably sure they're no longer agnostic. ;) As for athiests, I'm not sure I've ever talked to one of them about it. People who are extremely against religion, or extremely for it (blindly) are people I generally don't talk to about this issue, because they're already pretty set in their ways, and I don't like trying to convert people. I just like story sharing. :)

Also, thanks for the compliments. Much appreciated. :) I've put a LOT of thought into the issue, looked at it from a couple different perspectives, and I've done a little bit of studying of other religions because this sort of stuff really interests me.

And to Szanth... I don't think, rationally, I could say you couldn't prosecute someone because they MIGHT have been possessed at the time. It just wouldn't hold up. I like proof of things, and unless you have a surefire way of detecting demonic possession, I don't think it could be used in any sort of legal defense. Although I do tend to think demons exist, it's not REALLY important to me. Just sort of an interest. :)

I wish I had more time for this today, but I have a ton of recruiting to do (for my psychology thesis, not religion! ;)) and then I'm headed out for the night. If this thread is still floating around tomorrow, I'll be sure to come back and see where it's gone. :)

Again, I agree with you about god himself (herself, whichever). I just can't see any kind of experience that would make you loyal to the church or the bible itself (if you are).

Claims to be part of a secret society? Check.

Lists combat training as one of their interests? Check.

Seeks techniques for fighting demons? Check

* flags The Keyi's folder *

it's currently 1:00AM in the Phils.

oooh~~ a demon is behind me XDDD

how tf did anyone even discover their presence anyway?

"Demons in the World"

This, IMHO, is one of the most serious problems with certain modern versions of Christianity.

My wife was ( and still is ) a kind, considerate, loving woman, who also happened to be a Christian. Some idiotic, mentally deficient "Christian" gave her a little book entitled "Pigs In the Parlor," the primary theme of which was that Christians could "have demons" too, not just "unbelievers." For months I had to endure my wife suggesting that I had a demon everytime I said or did basicaly anything she didn't like. I don't remember being very happy during that time. :(

Some people will believe virtually anything someone they see as a "religious authority" tells them. The Bible definitely does NOT support this view. It reminds Christians repeatedly to beware of "false teachers and prophets" and to question religious authorities. And it definitely does NOT indicate that Christians can "have demons" too.

All of this is an example of how self-proclaimed "religious authorities" can lead highly suggestible people seriously astray.

For months I had to endure my wife suggesting that I had a demon everytime I said or did basicaly anything she didn't like.

"Wash the car!"
"Its not dirty...and the game is on."
"DEMONS!!!!"
"*sigh*..aw crap... alright, alright, I'll do it."
:D
So many possibilities... :p

"Demons in the World"

This, IMHO, is one of the most serious problems with certain modern versions of Christianity.

My wife was ( and still is ) a kind, considerate, loving woman, who also happened to be a Christian. Some idiotic, mentally deficient "Christian" gave her a little book entitled "Pigs In the Parlor," the primary theme of which was that Christians could "have demons" too, not just "unbelievers." For months I had to endure my wife suggesting that I had a demon everytime I said or did basicaly anything she didn't like. I don't remember being very happy during that time. :(

Some people will believe virtually anything someone they see as a "religious authority" tells them. The Bible definitely does NOT support this view. It reminds Christians repeatedly to beware of "false teachers and prophets" and to question religious authorities. And it definitely does NOT indicate that Christians can "have demons" too.

All of this is an example of how self-proclaimed "religious authorities" can lead highly suggestible people seriously astray.


:eek: But why wouldn't you believe your wife?!

Plus, I have heard first hand accounts from people who have had personal experiences with demons, some of those people being my close friends. Why would I doubt their evidence? Particularly when they have demonstrated that they are reasonably honest people.

She's, no doubt, a reasonably honest person, who is much more than a close friend!

"Wash the car!"
"Its not dirty...and the game is on."
"DEMONS!!!!"
"*sigh*..aw crap... alright, alright, I'll do it."
:D
So many possibilities... :p
Unfortunately, that's not much of an exaggeration! :(

Unfortunately, that's not much of an exaggeration! :(

Aiee! Poor Eut. :(

Here. :fluffle:

:eek: But why wouldn't you believe your wife?!
Riiiight. :rolleyes:

Aiee! Poor Eut. :(

Here. :fluffle:
Heh! Thanks.

As best I can reconstruct my internal states, that was the epigenesis of my gradual liberation from the yoke of false christianity. :)

Heh! Thanks.

As best I can reconstruct my internal states, that was the epigenesis of my gradual liberation from the yoke of false christianity. :)

Em... http://fencingforum.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif
*looks for a dictionary...and several other big, big books*

Em... http://fencingforum.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif
*looks for a dictionary...and several other big, big books*
LOL! Well, at least you'll learn some new, 50-cent words. :D

Rephrase: As I recall, that was when I began to question all the idiocy of certain religious organizations.

Better? :)

Better? :)

Much. :D

I believe your merry-go-round has broken down.

ROFL

Demons are guardian angels who look out for our fortune. I believed in them when I was a child; now I understand them as a part of who we are.
And who help deliver the fortunes we've earned for ourselves, perhaps. Maybe that's why some people are so afraid of them.

And who help deliver the fortunes we've earned for ourselves, perhaps. Maybe that's why some people are so afraid of them.

That goes against essentially every myth about demons known to man - eastern, western, christian, whatever.

It's always specifically stated: angels/saints = good. Devils/demons = bad.

My demons all left. They can't stand me anymore. I don't think that's a good thing.

I was possessed once by a demon. No one was able to tell the difference.
Was that the period when you kept telling people you were possessed and they just told you to get a job? ;)

That goes against essentially every myth about demons known to man - eastern, western, christian, whatever.

It's always specifically stated: angels/saints = good. Devils/demons = bad.
demon
1387, from L. dæmon "spirit," from Gk. daimon (gen. daimonos) "lesser god, guiding spirit, tutelary deity," (sometimes including souls of the dead), used (with daimonion) in Christian Gk. translations and Vulgate for "god of the heathen" and "unclean spirit." Jewish authors earlier had employed the Gk. word in this sense, using it to render shedim "lords, idols" in the Septuagint, and Matt. viii.31 has daimones, translated as deofol in O.E., feend or deuil in M.E. The original mythological sense is sometimes written dæmon for purposes of distinction. The Demon of Socrates (1387) was a daimonion, a "divine principle or inward oracle." His accusers, and later the Church Fathers, however, represented this otherwise. The Demon Star (1895) is Beta Persei (in Ar. Algol "the Demon") so called because it visibly varies in brightness every three days. Fem. form demoness first attested 1638. Demonic is from 1662; demonize is from 1821.

No, originally the word just meant spirits.

Well, I have to say that I don't know, based on personal experience, but you see, there is this book called the Bible, and I have personally found much in the Bible that is true. Therefore, if I find that I can trust the Bible in areas of my life that can be personally confirmed, why would I not trust it also in areas that are outside of personal experience?

Plus, I have heard first hand accounts from people who have had personal experiences with demons, some of those people being my close friends. Why would I doubt their evidence? Particularly when they have demonstrated that they are reasonably honest people.
You and your "first hand accounts"! You know, I'm still pissed off at you from the Pagan Influences in Christianity thread, where I today posted an exhaustive and -- if I do say so myself -- quite dramatic response to your so-called first hand knowledge of things you know nothing about.

No, originally the word just meant spirits.

*shrugs* I write my own little dictionary. Spirits are benign, demons are bad, saints are good. Everything makes more sense that way.

Buy a double edged axe, give it a name, and watch the movie Frailty for futher instruction.

I'm not jokeing this movie changed my life.
"Frailty" is one of the scariest movies I've ever seen but not because it dealt with demons. That movie gave me nightmares because it showed all too realistically what too much unquestioned belief can drive people to do. Invisible supernatural beings may or may not exist, but armed fanatics most certainly walk among us.

*shrugs* I write my own little dictionary. Spirits are benign, demons are bad, saints are good. Everything makes more sense that way.
I used to make up my own meanings for words too. It got a bit problematic when I had to constantly explain "Fuck you and your syphilitic whore of a mother" actually meant "Well, let's just agree to disagree".

Ive been attacked by a sex demon

*shrugs* I write my own little dictionary. Spirits are benign, demons are bad, saints are good. Everything makes more sense that way.
Thanks for the tip. From now on, whenever you say something that doesn't make any sense, we'll just assume that in your dictionary the words mean the opposite of what they mean in English and go from there. :)

Was that the period when you kept telling people you were possessed and they just told you to get a job? ;)
I was possessed. The demon was made employee of the month four times in a rol. Then it left and they fired me for poor performance.

What do you think about demons? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be. The reason I am asking is lately I have had them on my mind a lot. I know that I need to fight them, but I don't know how. Also now adays you never hear about people being possessed. It may be because now we would think that they are just mentally retarded. Any thoughts?
I know that you have a pretty good chance fighting a demon with a +5 vs Demons Vorpal Broadsword, or a 'Holy Avenger' (However, If you aren't a paladin, then the former is by far the better choice). You would have a decent chance picking up one of these in any one of the nine hells of Baator from any of the more powerful varieties of Tanar'ri (Balors, Glabrezus, Mariliths, ect...). You may find it easier to sell your soul to a Glabreezu in return for one (and a few more powers too), rather than defeating several of the above varieties of Devil (depending on your level). Apart from the devils, it is probable that the demons would have many weapons designed to kill other demons (due to their chaotic nature), however, you would be much more reliant upon luck to getting anything in the Abyss (the native plane of the Demons). Finally, the celestials would certainly have plenty of anti-demon equipment, but unless you are the mortal incarnate of purity and light, they won't be giving anything to you, (and you'd be mad to try and take it).

I hope that helps. You may want to gain a few levels in one of the various demon-slayer prestige classes that exist before you get to carried away, you'll be glad you did later (believe me). If you are really keen, convert to the path of light and become a paladin. In terms of Demon slaying, it is by far the best choice. However, the class is rather high maintenence, somewhat unpopular amongst other adventurers, and a complete waste of time if you change your mind later (Unless you want to become evil, in which case it is SO SO worth it).;)

I don't think the OP was going on about being haunted by demons, only concerned about their influence on the generally unsuspecting population.

If you or I were demons, and if we were set on destroying the human race, or at least causing it as much misery as possible, would it not be a clever trick to have half the people believe that we did not exist (and then set to misleading them from the truth as much as possible, working undetected) and have the other half know that we exist and fear us too much to have any serious regard for the truth.

With that kind of logic, you could also make a good point that Margaret Thatcher and the English royal family actually was a reptile space aliens, set on taking over the world. But they don't want anyone to know that, of course, so the fact that almost the entire population will laugh at the mere thought plays right into their hands....

Ive been attacked by a sex demon

You have? Did it have tentacles?

With that kind of logic, you could also make a good point that Margaret Thatcher and the English royal family actually was a reptile space aliens, set on taking over the world.

You mean they aren't?

Yay!!! Someone likes me!
It's fluffle time!
:fluffle:


Oh, wait. They don't really know me afterall. (start to twitch and blink rapidly)

Ah, nevermind. You could still move in with me ;)

:fluffle:

Thanks for the tip. From now on, whenever you say something that doesn't make any sense, we'll just assume that in your dictionary the words mean the opposite of what they mean in English and go from there. :)

:p It makes sense. That's why I like debating with people, so I can explain my perspective, and then it's easier for them to understand. Might seem a bit roundabout to you, but it's easier than having unsorted thoughts being contradicted all the time because they're always being rewritten as you learn new things.

With that kind of logic, you could also make a good point that Margaret Thatcher and the English royal family actually was a reptile space aliens, set on taking over the world. But they don't want anyone to know that, of course, so the fact that almost the entire population will laugh at the mere thought plays right into their hands....
According to Dr. Who, they're not reptilian but rather unattractive, flatulent, baby-faced critters (like something out of "Brazil") dressed up in British politicians' skins. I just learned this because we just got the new Dr. Who (with Christopher Eccleston) in the States, and that's the episode we're up to. There are pictures of it on tv, so it must be true.

heh this thread is great. You've got people saying that they know something exists based not off of evidence but of a feeling. Its just like kids and the tooth fairy or santa claus. They don't have any evidence that shows they exist they just have second hand stories from their parents. And we all know that the fat jolly guy doesn't exist so why is it any different for these "demons?"

Ive been attacked by a sex demon

A succubus or an incubus? :D

I was possessed. The demon was made employee of the month four times in a rol. Then it left and they fired me for poor performance.
I hate it when they do that -- demon bastards ruining our reputations. "Employee of the month" -- how horrible for you.

According to Dr. Who, they're not reptilian but rather unattractive, flatulent, baby-faced critters (like something out of "Brazil") dressed up in British politicians' skins. I just learned this because we just got the new Dr. Who (with Christopher Eccleston) in the States, and that's the episode we're up to. There are pictures of it on tv, so it must be true.

That's just TV... but there's a guy who actually believes in the space alien reptile royal family yarn :

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=147792006

And who help deliver the fortunes we've earned for ourselves, perhaps. Maybe that's why some people are so afraid of them.
Demons only "deliver" fortune in the sense that reading signs "delivers" a message to a person; the actual act that takes place is recognition, not an action on the part of someone or something else.

The philosophical concept of free will changed all that. With free will, humans bare the responsibility for things that they are the cause of. Things that they are not the cause of are things that happen *to* them, from external sources. So suddenly the cause of a message delivered of fortune is not an internal act of recognition but an external act by unseen things. Magic.

:p It makes sense. That's why I like debating with people, so I can explain my perspective, and then it's easier for them to understand. Might seem a bit roundabout to you, but it's easier than having unsorted thoughts being contradicted all the time because they're always being rewritten as you learn new things.
Okay, well, then let me explain my perspective: What you think is not the measure of what others think or of what is true. You think "demon" always = "bad," but that in no way leads us to conclude that that's the only way the word is used by everyone in the world.

So when you say that my and Willamena's remarks go against the universal meaning of the word "demon," you're wrong. :)

That's just TV... but there's a guy who actually believes in the space alien reptile royal family yarn :

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=147792006
Wow! :eek:

You guys only just got the Christopher Eccleston Dr Who? Awww. Nice that we got something first for once :D

demon
1387, from L. dæmon "spirit," from Gk. daimon (gen. daimonos) "lesser god, guiding spirit, tutelary deity," (sometimes including souls of the dead), used (with daimonion) in Christian Gk. translations and Vulgate for "god of the heathen" and "unclean spirit." Jewish authors earlier had employed the Gk. word in this sense, using it to render shedim "lords, idols" in the Septuagint, and Matt. viii.31 has daimones, translated as deofol in O.E., feend or deuil in M.E. The original mythological sense is sometimes written dæmon for purposes of distinction. The Demon of Socrates (1387) was a daimonion, a "divine principle or inward oracle." His accusers, and later the Church Fathers, however, represented this otherwise. The Demon Star (1895) is Beta Persei (in Ar. Algol "the Demon") so called because it visibly varies in brightness every three days. Fem. form demoness first attested 1638. Demonic is from 1662; demonize is from 1821.
Just so.

That's just TV... but there's a guy who actually believes in the space alien reptile royal family yarn :

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=147792006

David Icke is an unrecognized genius of the alternative art scene. One day people will acknowledge him for the great talent he is.

heh this thread is great. You've got people saying that they know something exists based not off of evidence but of a feeling. Its just like kids and the tooth fairy or santa claus. They don't have any evidence that shows they exist they just have second hand stories from their parents. And we all know that the fat jolly guy doesn't exist so why is it any different for these "demons?"
What are you taliking about, Demons do exist! Their home plane is the Abyss. They are at eternal war with themselves, the nine hells of Baator, and the celestials. The are Diametrically opposed to Law. They are responsible for the death of several of my favourite characters. Keyi is damn right we need to fight demons! The lesson which we all must learn is not to do it without a cleric and/or a paladin in the party (no matter haow annoying they can be).

*mumbles*stupid demons...think they can just wreak havoc..kill my ranger...

Under the logic that says that demons are a part of the human psyche that has been concretized over the millennia.

You know full well that I was referring to the sorts of demons mentioned in the OP, not psychological demons in that only exist in the human mind.

Demons only "deliver" fortune in the sense that reading signs "delivers" a message to a person; the actual act that takes place is recognition, not an action on the part of someone or something else.

The philosophical concept of free will changed all that. With free will, humans bare the responsibility for things that they are the cause of. Things that they are not the cause of are things that happen *to* them, from external sources. So suddenly the cause of a message delivered of fortune is not an internal act of recognition but an external act by unseen things. Magic.
I get what you mean.

I was thinking of "demons" in the sense of agents of our own karma, manifestations of our guilt or the darker impulses people seek to deny in themselves. In this sense they are a symbolic externalization of the choices we make that lead us into lives of suffering and harm to others -- like the Greek Furies which were the agents of Nemesis, the goddess of divine justice. The Furies are a dramatic symbol of the effects of guilt.

In Tibetan Buddhism, novice monks spend years meditating and visualizing (in other words attempting to manifest) their personal demons, the dark impulses that give shape to their fears, which society traditionally externalizes as demons or evil spirits. Their goal is to face these things and realize their ultimate unreality and meaninglessness so that they will no longer be influenced by such notions in any way. First step on their path to enlightenment.

The Bible states that those who are saved stop sinning. The early Christians confirmed this as well, like I listed in the previous post and on the link to my website I gave you. It was a common belief that those who were truly saved repented, and those who truly repented stopped sinning. This is not the same as being sinless, because you would have sinned in the past.

The Bible lists quite a few criteria necessary for salvation. It also states "faith without works is dead." According to Scripture, part of faith IS works. You simply can't have the former without the latter. So unless you have the works, you have no faith, and thus aren't saved.

The Bible never says, not once, that belief in Jesus all by itself is what saves you.

I don't typically answer these posts, but I found this "interpretation" of the Gospel to be disturbing to see.

Faith in God and true repentance, do not make a man sinless. Nor does sinlessness reflect true faith in God. We all know many "good people" who may only do the occasional sin -- or, for argument's sake, may never sin. Does this make them a Christian?

Now, it's also suggested that if I believe in Jesus (i.e. believe in his existence and death), I am a Christian. However, Jews and Muslims alike both believe in his existence, too.

What does the Bible say?: If you believe in heart that Jesus is Lord and confess with your mouth that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

No acts. No "good deeds". The gift of God is free and freely given simply to those who geniunely believe that this man that walked the earth 2000 years ago -- Jesus -- had one purpose in his existence: to live a perfect life, yet die a horrific death, taking the weight of the world's sin on him. Why? Because God loved us so much that he was williing to sacrifice the one thing that he treasured most -- the relationship that he had with his perfect son -- in order to re-establish the relationship he desired to have with us when we were created.

Judas repented once. Did he die a sinless man?

You guys only just got the Christopher Eccleston Dr Who? Awww. Nice that we got something first for once :D
I know. I'm so pissed off. How long have I been missing this show?

David Icke is an unrecognized genius of the alternative art scene. One day people will acknowledge him for the great talent he is.

He is... creative all right :p ;)

David Icke is an unrecognized genius of the alternative art scene. One day people will acknowledge him for the great talent he is.
He's good. Part of my "Wow! :eek: " was "Do people think he's serious?" and another part was "Is he serious?"

Eh, it was last year for a bit; spring early summer I think. Then a gap to the Christmas episode, which was brilliant. Now I'm eagerly awaiting (though I've lost track of just when it is) the next lot with David Tennant (the Xmas one was his first).

I would post intelligently on the actual topic :p
But then 'x' pages of circular argument about demons doesn't appeal. I know enough people who believe this sort of stuff to argue it whenever I want.

He's good. Part of my "Wow! :eek: " was "Do people think he's serious?" and another part was "Is he serious?"

I don't know if he is serious himself... but I'll wager my pudding that there are people who believe what he says.

You know full well that I was referring to the sorts of demons mentioned in the OP, not psychological demons in that only exist in the human mind.
But they are one and the same. A person can be metaphorically haunted by "his demons", but the expression comes directly from the archaic idea of demons as divine.

I don't know if he is serious himself... but I'll wager my pudding that there are people who believe what he says.
Here in the States we have an old saying:

"Nobody ever went broke by insulting the intelligence of the American public."

Feel free to substitute or add the nationality of your choice in that.

I thought it was "No-one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public" and that it was Sam Goldwyn the movie maestro. I may be entirely wrong.

Demons do exist. They may not take form in an actual possession like you see in The Exorcist. Demons can cloud your mind and tempt you to evil things. I am a Catholic and firm believer in prayer. You should pray and ask God to clear your mind of these demons.

Demons do exist. They may not take form in an actual possession like you see in The Exorcist. Demons can cloud your mind and tempt you to evil things. I am a Catholic and firm believer in prayer. You should pray and ask God to clear your mind of these demons.

Alternatively, you can fight your own worse impulses and acknowledge that parts of your own psyche have urges and desires that are unacceptable, both to your own better self, and to society in general; but that this is a part of you, that you must control and deal with, not disown.

EDIT: That was me falling to one of my worse impulses - I had promised myself I was not going to get dragged into this debate.

Okay, well, then let me explain my perspective: What you think is not the measure of what others think or of what is true. You think "demon" always = "bad," but that in no way leads us to conclude that that's the only way the word is used by everyone in the world.

So when you say that my and Willamena's remarks go against the universal meaning of the word "demon," you're wrong. :)

Only if you don't have my perspective. :3 So you to you, I was wrong, and to me, I was simply stating something that I see as true. Agree to disagree.

I don't know if he is serious himself... but I'll wager my pudding that there are people who believe what he says.

No doubt.

But you have to respect someone that can make a such a notorious career out of telling a set of self-contradictory fibs, each bigger and weider than the last.

Well done I say. And I hope Icke goes on to continue to amuse me for many years yet.

Demons do exist. They may not take form in an actual possession like you see in The Exorcist. Demons can cloud your mind and tempt you to evil things. I am a Catholic and firm believer in prayer. You should pray and ask God to clear your mind of these demons.

Let me get this straight... I should pray because of what you believe?

Personally, I believe any form of organised religion to be a hoax. So you better start doubting.

Demons do exist. They may not take form in an actual possession like you see in The Exorcist. Demons can cloud your mind and tempt you to evil things. I am a Catholic and firm believer in prayer. You should pray and ask God to clear your mind of these demons.

What's the point of that? If god wanted the demons gone he'd do it himself. Maybe he wants you to take care of it. He does, after all, have a plan - right? Maybe letting the demons get there was part of his plan. Don't mess with his plan. =P

One perspective on the idea of demons is that, like using "I was drunk" as an excuse, it is disowning responsiblity for what you know, deep down, is your responsibility. Ease your conscience.

Demons do exist. They may not take form in an actual possession like you see in The Exorcist. Demons can cloud your mind and tempt you to evil things. I am a Catholic and firm believer in prayer. You should pray and ask God to clear your mind of these demons.
I'm an atheist and believe that prayer is about as usefull as a fart in a windstorm. You should pray and ask god to clear your mind from delusions about demons.

I get what you mean.

I was thinking of "demons" in the sense of agents of our own karma, manifestations of our guilt or the darker impulses people seek to deny in themselves. In this sense they are a symbolic externalization of the choices we make that lead us into lives of suffering and harm to others -- like the Greek Furies which were the agents of Nemesis, the goddess of divine justice. The Furies are a dramatic symbol of the effects of guilt.

In Tibetan Buddhism, novice monks spend years meditating and visualizing (in other words attempting to manifest) their personal demons, the dark impulses that give shape to their fears, which society traditionally externalizes as demons or evil spirits. Their goal is to face these things and realize their ultimate unreality and meaninglessness so that they will no longer be influenced by such notions in any way. First step on their path to enlightenment.
Granted. I was trying to get at the earliest concepts of demons, which relates directly to the divine and divination.

At the time the Greek myths were written down, the mythic elements that made up a lot of the stories were already archaic, passed down through millennia. The idea of Furies as an embodiment of guilt was entirely of the invention of a society whose aim was to provide a 'modern' explanation for the old stories and impress their readers with a grand tale. They explained the old mythic elements in terms of human conditions, a change that was paralleled in the practice and symbolism of astrology (mainly by Claudius Ptolomy).

From the eighth to the sixth centuries (BC) the Greek myths went through a decisive stage of their poetic redaction, in the form of the epic. The principal cognitive tool evolved by this mythical fiction, as a key to reality, was the category of human diversity, which was paralleled by the distinct characters of gods and heroes. The concept itself was a Homeric heritage. In their post-Homeric, 'Archaic phase' most Greek myths were given the shape in which we still know them. From the scattered fragments of ancient folk tales and names dimly remembered the vast mythical fabric was created of the strife between gods and men in which multifarious life became mirrored and events understood as the effect of causes. Never before have the seriousness and reality of human situations been revealed so lucidly; have the crises of decision, the fatal interplay of human wills, and the force of circumstances been so impressively shown. Myth was the given theme of the epic.
http://www.noteaccess.com/APPROACHES/AGW/MythicalTGA.htm

Demons do exist. They may not take form in an actual possession like you see in The Exorcist. Demons can cloud your mind and tempt you to evil things. I am a Catholic and firm believer in prayer. You should pray and ask God to clear your mind of these demons.
Those aren't demons, that's your own self. This being said prayer, meditation, and psychoanalysis can help you concentrate or understand and get over those thoughts.

So, yeah, whatever works for you.

vi ste fuknjeni v glavo. resno.

Demons, eh?

All I can say is that if they do exist, Christians more than anyone need to be careful, since they have already demonstrated a willingness to play host to one sort of spiritual being.

vi ste fuknjeni v glavo. resno.

What now? A possesed speaking in tongues???

:confused:

Where does this piece of dogma come from?

A Christian cannot be possessed, because every Christian has the Holy Spirit in them, and God cannot be overpowered by demons.

I haven't read every page, so I am sure that someone must have said this by now.

Also, sometimes God allows demons to torment us, hang around and stare at us, in order to drive us back to him.

Fighting incorporeal demons is best done through prayer. So keep on praying. And get your friends to pray for you. Intercessory prayer works wonders.

A Christian cannot be possessed, because every Christian has the Holy Spirit in them, and God cannot be overpowered by demons.

I haven't read every page, so I am sure that someone must have said this by now.

Also, sometimes God allows demons to torment us, hang around and stare at us, in order to drive us back to him.

Fighting incorporeal demons is best done through prayer. So keep on praying. And get your friends to pray for you. Intercessory prayer works wonders.

If god's letting the demons freak you out, prayer might not be the answer, considering if you're correct then god's no better than satan (which I'm fine with, because god created satan and lets him live so things are interesting), but I suspect you disagree with that, and am interested in how you plan on debating it.

A Christian cannot be possessed, because every Christian has the Holy Spirit in them, and God cannot be overpowered by demons.

I haven't read every page, so I am sure that someone must have said this by now.

Also, sometimes God allows demons to torment us, hang around and stare at us, in order to drive us back to him.

Fighting incorporeal demons is best done through prayer. So keep on praying. And get your friends to pray for you. Intercessory prayer works wonders.
I've got a cunningly modified laser pointer that kills demons. They won't mess with me. I don't need a god. My laser pointer has just as much evidence backing it up as your god does, so it's just as effective if not more so.

... every Christian has the Holy Spirit in them...
Exactly. You have already displayed a propensity towards allowing external spirits to control your thoughts, feelings, actions and, even more worryingly, your very being itself.

Doesn't that worry you? From this angle, it seems like you're taking the control rods out in the hope of generating energy; taking a risk that provides so much possibility of going horribly wrong.

my demons and i are as close as ever....and there nothing u can do to stop it!

Demons, eh?

All I can say is that if they do exist, Christians more than anyone need to be careful, since they have already demonstrated a willingness to play host to one sort of spiritual being.

This is a very good point. People who are strongly spiritual do indeed have to be very careful. Particularly in very spiritually intense situations that are physically and mentally draining, there seems to be a tendency for demonic elements to take advantage of their weakness by inhabiting them or possessing them.

Side Note: Our metaphysics may be different, but we both understand the need for caution.

Ive been attacked by a sex demon
Pffft! I was given one of those at birth! :D

A succubus or an incubus? :D
I have both. Why do you think I like threesomes so much? LOL! :D

One perspective on the idea of demons is that, like using "I was drunk" as an excuse, it is disowning responsiblity for what you know, deep down, is your responsibility. Ease your conscience.
Of course! It's like the old joke: "Da debbil make me do it!" :D

Of course! It's like the old joke: "Da debbil make me do it!" :D

Never worked on my gran, though...

*rubs bum in painful memory

Never worked on my gran, though...

*rubs bum in painful memory
Heh!

I've heard "sermons" where the "preacher" would say that children were born with the devil in them and it was up to parents to beat it out of them. Sigh. IMHO, people like that should be incarcerated. Grrrr! Don't get me started on this! :mad:

"Me and my personal demons are closer then ever!"

That about sums it up for me. To fight them....become a priest and NOT A CATHOLIC ONE unless you don't want to marry. :P

The best way to help rid people of dark beings or protect them is to take up shamanism or another similar healing art. Shamanism is good because in some traditions they teach you to see the subtle energies... such as the luminous enegry field of the body and it's components (chakras and stuff). There's a lot more to it than I am letting on here.

Ok, coming from a non-practicing, somewhat-agnostic Roman Catholic, I actually DO believe that demons exist. Whether they are a product of our own imaginations or something more sinister can't be certain, but I think they are some sort of actual entity.

The pschyological explanation could be another one of those chemical imbalances in the brain that seems to be the reason for everything (not to criticize the theory, since we know so little about the functionings of our own brains), or, could it possibly be that we all have a stash of extra personalities locked away and "possession" is merely those personalities gaining control of the body? Just my own wacky theory.

On the other hand, the religious side, the vague notions of a war between heaven and hell and all that good stuff... I saw an exorcism on a documentary, and it was probably the strangest thing I've ever seen. The "demon," whatever it was, had a name (the priest demanded to know its name and it said it), and it was actually answering or denying questions asked by the priest. As it was forced from the person's body it screamed, howled, and flung curses and swear words at the priest, all while the body was convulsing uncontrollably. There's always the possibility that the whole thing was scripted, but I doubt it, looking at how distressed the person was after the demon got kicked out of his body.

That whole type of thing really knocks up the sketchiness factor about demons, either that or our brains are so incredibly complex that they really can conjure up these sort of things without knowing it. However, at the same time you can't deny the fact that the Catholic church regards demons as a large enough threat to have a specialized branch of the church devoted to demon hunting.

Ok, coming from a non-practicing, somewhat-agnostic Roman Catholic, I actually DO believe that demons exist. Whether they are a product of our own imaginations or something more sinister can't be certain, but I think they are some sort of actual entity.

The pschyological explanation could be another one of those chemical imbalances in the brain that seems to be the reason for everything (not to criticize the theory, since we know so little about the functionings of our own brains), or, could it possibly be that we all have a stash of extra personalities locked away and "possession" is merely those personalities gaining control of the body? Just my own wacky theory.

On the other hand, the religious side, the vague notions of a war between heaven and hell and all that good stuff... I saw an exorcism on a documentary, and it was probably the strangest thing I've ever seen. The "demon," whatever it was, had a name (the priest demanded to know its name and it said it), and it was actually answering or denying questions asked by the priest. As it was forced from the person's body it screamed, howled, and flung curses and swear words at the priest, all while the body was convulsing uncontrollably. There's always the possibility that the whole thing was scripted, but I doubt it, looking at how distressed the person was after the demon got kicked out of his body.

That whole type of thing really knocks up the sketchiness factor about demons, either that or our brains are so incredibly complex that they really can conjure up these sort of things without knowing it. However, at the same time you can't deny the fact that the Catholic church regards demons as a large enough threat to have a specialized branch of the church devoted to demon hunting.

Yeah. I've actually had a couple of encounters with demons. Freaky stuff. Very unexpected. I prefer to explain things in scientific terms, but some things...

It's been some time since I took religion classes, but from what I remember demons came about when Lucifer tried to usurp god's throne. One third of the angels followed Lucifer, the rest remained loyal to god. Lucifer and his followers were cast out and became demons.

Why would anyone in his right mind try to usurp the throne of an omnipotent and omniscient being? This clearly shows that god is not as omnipotent as Christianity claims.

I've actually had a couple of encounters with demons.

!!!

This comes top of the list of uncharacteristic statements.

Who are you and what have you done with the real HotRodia?

!!!

This comes top of the list of uncharacteristic statements.

Who are you and what have you done with the real HotRodia?

Err...on what basis are you deciding that it was an uncharacteristic statement on my part?

Kadmark, I think an important question is; was the person being exorcised brought up in a Roman Catholic tradition? Would they have responded the same way if brought up in a different religious tradition? I doubt it.
If you are brought up a Roman Catholic, then, barring conversion to another religion, the vocabulary and set of concepts you bring to bear on this will be fundamentally Catholic ones; thus it could be a function of the brain, as they are calling on concepts they already have. The evidence would be if a lifelong Muslim who was then 'possessed' responded to a Christian approach to exorcism, or vice versa.

I dunno about you, but, personally, I've never witnessed or even heard about any person with Down's Syndrome or anything similar twist their head 360 degrees or violently contort their body, let alone speak in tongues or carry out a satanic ritual.

EDIT: Now, projectile vomitting is another matter...

First, the exorcist is a movie. "Real" possessions usually don't involve such drama as the spinning head thing.

To the op:

What sect of christianity? I know a bit on the Catholic take on possession.

If evanglican, well their take on possession is a bit more showy, and for a lack of better words hokey. I consider these people as quacks, and their "possessions" and "exorcism" are nothing more than for show, really.

So, it all depends. What do you want to know?

Err...on what basis are you deciding that it was an uncharacteristic statement on my part?

On the basis that it seems incongruent with all other posts I recall you previously making. I would sum you up as a quite hardnosed rationalist.

to shamans - possessions are often human spirits (or other) that attached itself to a living human and feeds off of it's energy. This issupposed to be the cause of many mental diseases like depression and schitzophrenia.

for instance there was this woman that joined the priesthood that became seriously mentally ill and nothing anyone in western medicine seemed to help her. She sought out the help of a shaman who helped identify and remove a being attached to her. It was apparently a long dead Catholic priest who had a very low opinion of women (especially those who would blaspheme the church by joining the priesthood).

it's interesting to see the difference in how shamans and catholic priests do "exorcisms". Priests always call them demons and cast them into darkness while shamans will try to help the spirit find peace.

Good, maybe the Horned One will help me get laid.
he will--if your a bottom:D

WHAT!!!??? NOOOOO!!!! :eek: *immediately quits forum and takes up drinking in the daytime*
did I make a foux pas?

Kadmark, I think an important question is; was the person being exorcised brought up in a Roman Catholic tradition? Would they have responded the same way if brought up in a different religious tradition? I doubt it.
If you are brought up a Roman Catholic, then, barring conversion to another religion, the vocabulary and set of concepts you bring to bear on this will be fundamentally Catholic ones; thus it could be a function of the brain, as they are calling on concepts they already have. The evidence would be if a lifelong Muslim who was then 'possessed' responded to a Christian approach to exorcism, or vice versa.

Actually, if I remember correctly, the priest wasn't Catholic but of a Protestant denomination... which probably means that the person being exorcised was of the same denomination. Can't remember exactly which one.

I understand what you're saying, though, and you brought up a really good point. I'm sure a Buddhist or Muslim would have viewed the situation completely differently.

If I'm honest, I seem to've covered this, and most other religious questions, before - a side effect of a group of friends including assertive and argumentative agnostics, atheists, Christians of various types and Muslims. You learn a bit of perspective and peaceful disagreement from that, if nothing else :D

did I make a foux pas?
Nope, I just have a hang up about becoming a fixture in any group setting. Don't ask; it's just me being me. :)

Nope, I just have a hang up about becoming a fixture in any group setting. Don't ask; it's just me being me. :)
humans are a herd animal

to shamans - possessions are often human spirits (or other) that attached itself to a living human and feeds off of it's energy. This issupposed to be the cause of many mental diseases like depression and schitzophrenia.

for instance there was this woman that joined the priesthood that became seriously mentally ill and nothing anyone in western medicine seemed to help her. She sought out the help of a shaman who helped identify and remove a being attached to her. It was apparently a long dead Catholic priest who had a very low opinion of women (especially those who would blaspheme the church by joining the priesthood).

it's interesting to see the difference in how shamans and catholic priests do "exorcisms". Priests always call them demons and cast them into darkness while shamans will try to help the spirit find peace.
I'm not a shaman, by any means -- not even close-- but I am an animist who believes in the existence of spirits of all kinds, everywhere. I also have a profound respect for shamans and what they do and have studied them extensively. It is certainly true that true shamans do deal directly with spirits and on occasion with spirit possession and exorcisms, but I think it's important to point out that many shamans, even in the most traditional of societies, acknowledge the power of the human mind. I have read countless interviews with practicing shamans and papers written by practicing shamans that make it clear that even they think real spirit possessions are incredibly rare, and that it is extremely important for people suffering from physical or mental illnesses to receive proper medical care. That's why shamans study medicinal healing as well as spiritual healing and put great emphasis on the skill of diagnosis.

Experienced shamans usually show that they know the difference between fact and symbol, between art and magic, and between religion and healing, and that they understand the proper roles and uses of all of those things. Maybe it's because a shaman's most important activity is to spend a lot of time thinking very intensely about the nature of spirituality and the confluence of spiritual and physical realities that they are so careful about what they do within those realities.

humans are a herd animal
Never! *reaches for that drink, muttering to self*

But, it's not usually the 'professional' practitioners who are the worst. As an example, the Inquisition, the religious body with the worst reputation certainly in European, and possibly in world, history; had very little to do with 'witch'-burning. In fact the Inquisition, while guardedly acknowledging a possibility of witchcraft, considered the vast majority of cases to be nothing to do with magic and devil worship, and everything to do with score settling. I don't mean to be insulting there, but I certainly see a parallel. It is the dabblers who see spirits - or witches - everywhere; those who devote their lives to it may or may not think there is a hard core of the effect in question, but will find mundane causes for the vast majority.

Another example could be UFO sightings/abdctions.

I'm not a shaman, by any means -- not even close-- but I am an animist who believes in the existence of spirits of all kinds, everywhere. I also have a profound respect for shamans and what they do and have studied them extensively. It is certainly true that true shamans do deal directly with spirits and on occasion with spirit possession and exorcisms, but I think it's important to point out that many shamans, even in the most traditional of societies, acknowledge the power of the human mind. I have read countless interviews with practicing shamans and papers written by practicing shamans that make it clear that even they think real spirit possessions are incredibly rare, and that it is extremely important for people suffering from physical or mental illnesses to receive proper medical care. That's why shamans study medicinal healing as well as spiritual healing and put great emphasis on the skill of diagnosis.

Experienced shamans usually show that they know the difference between fact and symbol, between art and magic, and between religion and healing, and that they understand the proper roles and uses of all of those things. Maybe it's because a shaman's most important activity is to spend a lot of time thinking very intensely about the nature of spirituality and the confluence of spiritual and physical realities that they are so careful about what they do within those realities.
are the spirits that hang around Ouija boards the dregs of the spirit world?

Never! *reaches for that drink, muttering to self*
I kinda like the concept tho--it gives you a sense of belonging to something larger then yourself

as Mustapha Mond would say We all belong to each other

But, it's not usually the 'professional' practitioners who are the worst. As an example, the Inquisition, the religious body with the worst reputation certainly in European, and possibly in world, history; had very little to do with 'witch'-burning. In fact the Inquisition, while guardedly acknowledging a possibility of witchcraft, considered the vast majority of cases to be nothing to do with magic and devil worship, and everything to do with score settling. I don't mean to be insulting there, but I certainly see a parallel. It is the dabblers who see spirits - or witches - everywhere; those who devote their lives to it may or may not think there is a hard core of the effect in question, but will find mundane causes for the vast majority.

Another example could be UFO sightings/abdctions.
Ive always suspected that stories of UFO abductions could be repressed fascination with anal probes

Eh, probably. :( :sniper:
But point remains, any observer agrees the vast majority of 'cases' are something totally different, it's the fraction of a percent that cause the disagreement.

Eh, probably. :( :sniper:
But point remains, any observer agrees the vast majority of 'cases' are something totally different, it's the fraction of a percent that cause the disagreement.
UFOs are just the modern equivalent of Faeries

People seem to need the weird and the unexplained. :confused:
So much for rationalism, heh?

are the spirits that hang around Ouija boards the dregs of the spirit world?
They are the ghosts of people who became fixtures on online forums. ;)

People seem to need the weird and the unexplained. :confused:
So much for rationalism, heh?
rationalism is vastly overrated--the universe is infinitely capable

They are the ghosts of people who became fixtures on online forums. ;)

Then I might be the next. :o

A Christian cannot be possessed, because every Christian has the Holy Spirit in them, and God cannot be overpowered by demons.

Yeah, we're already possessed.
We can't be repossessed.

Yeah, we're already possessed.
We can't be repossessed.
it depends how many demons can fit into your head

People seem to need the weird and the unexplained. :confused:
So much for rationalism, heh?
The big drawback to rationalism for most people is that it forces us to realize that we are not really all that special. Most people are frighteningly invested in feeling special.

It's not just that aliens probe anuses -- it's that they choose which anuses to probe out of all of humanity. They go to such astonishing lengths to pick just the right drunken hillbillies to abduct. You'll notice how most hardcore "abductees" claim to be visited regularly by their little gray secret boyfriends.

I see similar patterns in this demons-walk-among-us thing. Only special, saved people can see them. The rest of us are ignorantly being sucked into damnation but the saved can save us all. :rolleyes:

I think it is possible to be religious/spiritual and rational at the same time, but the ideas about demons that are present in the OP are, in my opinion, not based on rationalism or critical reason.

Then I might be the next. :o
Yep, if we don't get real lives soon, we'll spend the rest of eternity crammed into a Parker Bros. game board box, hoping for some bored teenagers with a few bucks to waste to happen by.

On the basis that it seems incongruent with all other posts I recall you previously making. I would sum you up as a quite hardnosed rationalist.

Rationalist? :confused:

Most decidedly not. I'm far more of a pragmatist than a rationalist. Reason has its uses as a tool and a form of (sometimes amusing) mental exercise, but I generally see in rationalism a failure to recognize the limitations of the tool. That said, it's a limited tool that I enjoy playing with and benefit from.

it depends how many demons can fit into your head
Forty three and one half.

The big drawback to rationalism for most people is that it forces us to realize that we are not really all that special. Most people are frighteningly invested in feeling special.

It's not just that aliens probe anuses -- it's that they choose which anuses to probe out of all of humanity. They go to such astonishing lengths to pick just the right drunken hillbillies to abduct. You'll notice how most hardcore "abductees" claim to be visited regularly by their little gray secret boyfriends.

I see similar patterns in this demons-walk-among-us thing. Only special, saved people can see them. The rest of us are ignorantly being sucked into damnation but the saved can save us all. :rolleyes:

I think it is possible to be religious/spiritual and rational at the same time, but the ideas about demons that are present in the OP are, in my opinion, not based on rationalism or critical reason.
but rationalism only goes so far

Forty three and one half.
they told you?

Wow...this thread has continued, long after Keyi apparently abandoned it. It's a victory for puppets everywhere!

they told you?
I tried. Lost a good deal of them before I realized that I should probably hollow out the skull first.

Yeah. I've actually had a couple of encounters with demons. Freaky stuff. Very unexpected. I prefer to explain things in scientific terms, but some things...
I'd like to hear more.

First, the exorcist is a movie. "Real" possessions usually don't involve such drama as the spinning head thing.

To the op:

What sect of christianity? I know a bit on the Catholic take on possession.

If evanglican, well their take on possession is a bit more showy, and for a lack of better words hokey. I consider these people as quacks, and their "possessions" and "exorcism" are nothing more than for show, really.

So, it all depends. What do you want to know?
I have never really studied to much on demons. I am sort of a Calvinist, so difference, but a lot of similarities.

I am sort of a Calvinist, so difference, but a lot of similarities.

Sort of a Calvinist? Are you one or not? If you're not, what do you subscribe to (if any)?

but rationalism only goes so far
Everything only goes so far.

Sort of a Calvinist? Are you one or not? If you're not, what do you subscribe to (if any)?
Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

I agree with all that, but, well I don't know. The other Calvinists I know right now, don't really think about demons. I attend a Christian Reformed Church, so if that means anything to you. . .

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

I agree with all that, but, well I don't know. The other Calvinists I know right now, don't really think about demons. I attend a Christian Reformed Church, so if that means anything to you. . .
You are really hung up on these demons. Do you participate in any other aspects of religion? Do you know any other religious people who think about demons as much as you?

Anyway, has anyone read The Devils of Loudun by Aldous Huxley. It's pretty good.

I haven't been on here in a few days, so I now get my chance at this discussion!!:D

Keyi, I know what you are talking about. First of all, there are those (probably most) on this forum who will ridicule you (as they have me) for believing in something you've never seen or touched. Please don't mistake me for a theologian or expert on demonology. As a fellow Christian, however, I believe there are demons; as I do a literal Satan and Hell, angels, Almighty God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and a literal Heaven. While it is true demons and demon possession is not widely recognized or accepted as truth in today's society, Satan and his minions are as real and dangerous as they were in the time of Jesus' days on Earth all the way back to the Creation. Satan is much more subtle today than he had to be a few millenia ago because 1) He would be too easy to recognize today and thus "scare" people to Christ, and 2) He doesn't have to be "spooky" to gain a following today. True, he decieves people into "dabbling" in witchcraft, and even into deeper service to him. However, the majority of his following is the very ones who deny his existence. If they don't believe he exists, then they probably won't admit sinning, and in turn, don't see the need to turn to the Cross where Jesus died for salvation, and in then end, wind up burning in the very Hell they denied with the very one for whom Hell was created, Satan himself.

For a really good sermon on demonology, I would like to refer you to Dr. Phil Kidd, http://www.drphilkidd.com/independent_fundamental_baptist_tent_ministry.htm. If you go to his "Online CD Catalog" and find #8: A Generation Possessed With Demons you will find the sermon very interesting. I will warn you, though, the content is very disturbing and sent chills down my spine; not something a child or weak-hearted would want to hear.

A word to the scorners: I know y'all are all laughing and trying to decide the best way to pick me apart and make fun, but I really don't care. The kind person asked a valid question, and I am trying my best to help them out. I know you think me, as well as all Christians, fanatical, brainwashed, and mentally sick. I know you would like to see the world "purged" of Christianity. Well, I warn you. If you live long enough, you will see your dreams come true, but it will be the worst nightmare you could imagine. I am not some nutjob. How looney can a person get in 20 years? However, I know my God lives, and He warns us of Satan and his hordes and how they are dead-set on destroying the lives of each and every person alive and dragging them to Hell. Satan is the author of evil and fear, and one day, you will see what I tell you is truth, because I repeat the Bible, which has never been wrong and continues to convict and harden, save and condemn mankind, even after 2,000 years. It is your own choice where you spend eternity.

Rationalist? :confused:

Most decidedly not. I'm far more of a pragmatist than a rationalist.

Yeah, I had a feeling that would be troublesome when I wrote it: I didn't mean rationalist in a strictly philosophical sense, but rather in an everyday one.

It is your own choice where you spend eternity.
Hell. After all, why wouldn't Shemyazaz take care of his own?

Also, Sheol has a combination strip club/bar.

the Bible, which has never been wrong
So pi is 3? And locusts have four legs? And bats are birds? And rabbits chew cud? And YHWH is unable to harm people in iron chariots?

I've had a day to think about it, and I've decided that I do in fact believe in devils. As long as they're from the Swamp and carry sticks.

I tried. Lost a good deal of them before I realized that I should probably hollow out the skull first.
:D

Everything only goes so far.

Gravity doesn't.

I've had a day to think about it, and I've decided that I do in fact believe in devils. As long as they're from the Swamp and carry sticks.
theyre really what pulls you under when you get stuck in quicksand

Gravity doesn't.

Spoilsport.

theyre really what pulls you under when you get stuck in quicksand

Quicksand? These Devils only live on ice.

Quicksand? These Devils only live on ice.
no those are the amatour ones

no those are the amatour ones

No, last I checked they were in the big league.

No, last I checked they were in the big league.
sorry I dont think theres anything particularly frightening about figure skaters:D

Hell. After all, why wouldn't Shemyazaz take care of his own?

Also, Sheol has a combination strip club/bar.


So pi is 3? And locusts have four legs? And bats are birds? And rabbits chew cud? And YHWH is unable to harm people in iron chariots?

References, please. Where is all that in the Bible?

sorry I dont think theres anything particularly frightening about figure skaters:D

Figure Skaters? FIGURE SKATERS? I'm going to send Scott Stevens to your house to make a necklace out of your teeth.

References, please. Where is all that in the Bible?

pi being 3 is in Numbers, I think. Not sure where in it. The rabbit thing is because they're listed as some of the cud chewing animals, I think in a list of forbidden foods.

Gravity doesn't.
I dispute that. I say gravity goes as far as gravity goes.

Unless you meant to imply that gravity doesn't go far enough?

I have never really studied to much on demons. I am sort of a Calvinist, so difference, but a lot of similarities.
It took a couple of minutes for this one to hit me. You've never really studied demons? I thought you were all worried about them and stuff. What are we even talking to you for? Man oh Manieschewitz! All those true believers who've posted encouraging messages telling you to stay strong in the face of unbelieving scoffers have been wasting their time. You owe them money, as far as I'm concerned. You're just some freaking demon dilletante.

It's been some time since I took religion classes, but from what I remember demons came about when Lucifer tried to usurp god's throne. One third of the angels followed Lucifer, the rest remained loyal to god. Lucifer and his followers were cast out and became demons.

Why would anyone in his right mind try to usurp the throne of an omnipotent and omniscient being? This clearly shows that god is not as omnipotent as Christianity claims.

Or that the entire story is bullhonkey. Or that lucifer didn't understand the full meaning of what "omnipotent" meant. Or that Nyquil was invented way before the companies got a hold of it, and was influencing the author when he wrote this crap.

It took a couple of minutes for this one to hit me. You've never really studied demons? I thought you were all worried about them and stuff. What are we even talking to you for? Man oh Manieschewitz! All those true believers who've posted encouraging messages telling you to stay strong in the face of unbelieving scoffers have been wasting their time. You owe them money, as far as I'm concerned. You're just some freaking demon dilletante.
If I knew a lot about demons and what exactly it is I am going to do, I wouldn't need advice, now would I?

If I knew a lot about demons and what exactly it is I am going to do, I wouldn't need advice, now would I?
yaddayaddayadda... You're just a hobbyist. No wonder god hasn't called you. :rolleyes:

I haven't been on here in a few days, so I now get my chance at this discussion!!:D

Keyi, I know what you are talking about. First of all, there are those (probably most) on this forum who will ridicule you (as they have me) for believing in something you've never seen or touched. Please don't mistake me for a theologian or expert on demonology. As a fellow Christian, however, I believe there are demons; as I do a literal Satan and Hell, angels, Almighty God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and a literal Heaven. While it is true demons and demon possession is not widely recognized or accepted as truth in today's society, Satan and his minions are as real and dangerous as they were in the time of Jesus' days on Earth all the way back to the Creation. Satan is much more subtle today than he had to be a few millenia ago because 1) He would be too easy to recognize today and thus "scare" people to Christ, and 2) He doesn't have to be "spooky" to gain a following today. True, he decieves people into "dabbling" in witchcraft, and even into deeper service to him. However, the majority of his following is the very ones who deny his existence. If they don't believe he exists, then they probably won't admit sinning, and in turn, don't see the need to turn to the Cross where Jesus died for salvation, and in then end, wind up burning in the very Hell they denied with the very one for whom Hell was created, Satan himself.

For a really good sermon on demonology, I would like to refer you to Dr. Phil Kidd, http://www.drphilkidd.com/independent_fundamental_baptist_tent_ministry.htm. If you go to his "Online CD Catalog" and find #8: A Generation Possessed With Demons you will find the sermon very interesting. I will warn you, though, the content is very disturbing and sent chills down my spine; not something a child or weak-hearted would want to hear.

A word to the scorners: I know y'all are all laughing and trying to decide the best way to pick me apart and make fun, but I really don't care. The kind person asked a valid question, and I am trying my best to help them out. I know you think me, as well as all Christians, fanatical, brainwashed, and mentally sick. I know you would like to see the world "purged" of Christianity. Well, I warn you. If you live long enough, you will see your dreams come true, but it will be the worst nightmare you could imagine. I am not some nutjob. How looney can a person get in 20 years? However, I know my God lives, and He warns us of Satan and his hordes and how they are dead-set on destroying the lives of each and every person alive and dragging them to Hell. Satan is the author of evil and fear, and one day, you will see what I tell you is truth, because I repeat the Bible, which has never been wrong and continues to convict and harden, save and condemn mankind, even after 2,000 years. It is your own choice where you spend eternity.
Thank you so much. I too take much of the Bible literally (except for when symbolism is used, what God meant by day when he created the Earth, and some verses in which one must examine the cultural content). You have a really good point (about Satan). It makes a lot of sense.

Good job with the warning, seriously, its no joke. The end times are coming. I was doing some research and all of the technology seems to be paving the way for the AntiChrist. I wouldn't be surprised to see it in my life, but I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't either.

Or that the entire story is bullhonkey. Or that lucifer didn't understand the full meaning of what "omnipotent" meant. Or that Nyquil was invented way before the companies got a hold of it, and was influencing the author when he wrote this crap.
Did you know that marijuana was one of the most important crops of the ancient Middle East? Also, beer was invented over 7000 years ago.

yaddayaddayadda... You're just a hobbyist. No wonder god hasn't called you. :rolleyes:
God (it needs to be capitalized, it is name), has called me. Sometimes you know what you need to do before you know how. Right now it is my job to prepare and learn, about God, life and people. My time will come when I am ready, and only God can judge when that will be. Go ahead and insult me. Go ahead and think that I can't really be serious, but I am and God knows my heart. That is all that matters.

Thank you so much. I too take much of the Bible literally (except for when symbolism is used, what God meant by day when he created the Earth, and some verses in which one must examine the cultural content). You have a really good point (about Satan). It makes a lot of sense.

Good job with the warning, seriously, its no joke. The end times are coming. I was doing some research and all of the technology seems to be paving the way for the AntiChrist. I wouldn't be surprised to see it in my life, but I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't either.
Oh, you can research how technology is paving the way for the AntiChrist but you can't look up info about the demons you feel drawn to fight?

Oh, you can research how technology is paving the way for the AntiChrist but you can't look up info about the demons you feel drawn to fight?
I can, and I should, but right now I do have things that I need to do. I promised my Bible study that I would research how technology is paving the way for the AntiChrist. Demons are next on my list.

I can, and I should, but right now I do have things that I need to do. I promised my Bible study that I would research how technology is paving the way for the AntiChrist. Demons are next on my list.

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.acme.com/jef/satan/satan_med.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.acme.com/jef/satan/&h=364&w=400&sz=11&tbnid=8gommuoYzJfxHM:&tbnh=109&tbnw=120&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsatan%2Binside%2Bintel%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.acme.com/jef/satan/satan_med.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.acme.com/jef/satan/&h=364&w=400&sz=11&tbnid=8gommuoYzJfxHM:&tbnh=109&tbnw=120&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsatan%2Binside%2Bintel%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN
And what exactly did you mean by that?

And what exactly did you mean by that?

You were saying something about technology and the antichrist and demons and all that jazz. I figured the picture was a silly way to poke fun.

You were saying something about technology and the antichrist and demons and all that jazz. I figured the picture was a silly way to poke fun.
Oh, now I see, but as funny as it may seem now, you will not laugh when it happens. I do not believe in the Rapture, so I will still be here, but I will be sealed by God. I will be forced to endure somethings and spared from others, but those without the seal of God will be forced to suffer through all judgements, and many of these judgements will make you wish you could die.

God (it needs to be capitalized, it is name), has called me. Sometimes you know what you need to do before you know how. Right now it is my job to prepare and learn, about God, life and people. My time will come when I am ready, and only God can judge when that will be. Go ahead and insult me. Go ahead and think that I can't really be serious, but I am and God knows my heart. That is all that matters.
If it's your job to learn and prepare, why aren't you learning about your supposed enemy, i.e. demons? It's not like it's a new subject; there are tons of references. You can take it as an insult if you like, but I am surprised that you feel such a calling for this, yet you have made so little effort to learn about it.

Quite frankly, I'm a bit put out by your refusal to be at all specific about what you think is going on in the world, spiritually. You say you're preparing for the end times and that you're trying to get a group put together, but though you hint that your group isn't on the same page as you, demon-wise, you refuse to say what kind of work this group is doing or what work you think it should be doing. You talk about having a pastor but you refuse to name your church. You just refuse to answer legitimate questions that would help people understand where you're coming from. How are people supposed to advise you when they don't even know what you are really thinking?

You may be completely serious about your religion and your belief in demons, but about seriously engaging people in this thread of yours? Not so much, it seems.

God (it needs to be capitalized, it is name), has called me.

What form did this calling take?

Oh, now I see, but as funny as it may seem now, you will not laugh when it happens. I do not believe in the Rapture, so I will still be here, but I will be sealed by God. I will be forced to endure somethings and spared from others, but those without the seal of God will be forced to suffer through all judgements, and many of these judgements will make you wish you could die.

Fair enough, sweetheart. All the interesting people are damned.

I can, and I should, but right now I do have things that I need to do. I promised my Bible study that I would research how technology is paving the way for the AntiChrist. Demons are next on my list.
What have you learned about demons from this thread?

Aside from the fact that a lot of people here do not believe in demons?

(And aside from a suggestion perhaps that you should have done some reading earlier?)

Fair enough, sweetheart. All the interesting people are damned.
Seriously. I am more than willing to take the rap for my life, and threats don't impress me, even when they come from supposed prophets.

Again, I agree with you about god himself (herself, whichever). I just can't see any kind of experience that would make you loyal to the church or the bible itself (if you are).

I have absolutely no loyalty to the Church. From a historical context, I don't trust it in any way shape or form.
The Bible is trickier. I don't take much of it literally. But there are certainly interesting stories in it, which, if nothing else, can help people to live better lives. Some people don't really need that guidance, though.
I especially enjoy the parts about prophecy. They're complex enough that I really don't know if they could be misinterpretted in a biased way. Some stories probably have human influence in their writings, and aren't to be taken as literally (i.e., creation of universe), but with prophecy... I dunno. It's people writing down things they saw, but maybe didn't understand how to explain, so they just did their best. Maybe they were crazy. Maybe not. I'll never know. :)

It's been some time since I took religion classes, but from what I remember demons came about when Lucifer tried to usurp god's throne. One third of the angels followed Lucifer, the rest remained loyal to god. Lucifer and his followers were cast out and became demons.

Why would anyone in his right mind try to usurp the throne of an omnipotent and omniscient being? This clearly shows that god is not as omnipotent as Christianity claims.

At least not in whatever space He naturally exists.
To us he may be omnipotent, and omniscient, but I don't think he exists naturally with us. We were created (whether via creationism, or Big Bang/Evolution doesn't matter) and He existed before the creation... so I believe that He exists in a dimension apart from our own... in this way, I think he may not be so alone (Explaining the sin where he says not to worship other gods because he is a JEALOUS god... why be jealous if they don't exist? Doesn't make sense to me) at least on his home turf. And thus maybe not so omnipotent. I've got room for all the religions in my beliefs. :)

Thank you so much. I too take much of the Bible literally (except for when symbolism is used, what God meant by day when he created the Earth, and some verses in which one must examine the cultural content). You have a really good point (about Satan). It makes a lot of sense.

Good job with the warning, seriously, its no joke. The end times are coming. I was doing some research and all of the technology seems to be paving the way for the AntiChrist. I wouldn't be surprised to see it in my life, but I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't either.

The end times aren't worth worrying about. When I was young (pre-teen), I watched a televangelist saying how the end times were near, and there were so many signs! It could be ANY DAY NOW! I bought it. I was young and naive. And... it didn't come. It's a decade and a half later, and I bet those people are STILL saying the same things.
Yeah, the end of humanity is coming... and so is next Christmas. Everything comes EVENTUALLY. But I'm not going to live my life in fear that it's just around the corner because doomsayers have been proclaiming the end of man for millenia.

The only demons are the Israeli government and IDF. Other than that, you dont have to worry

I have a tendency not to believe in daemons, or at least not as the epitomy of evil. There has been no being in the past or present totally evil. Hitler loved his dogs for instance. And I bet Stalin loved his mother. Anyway, their actions do not determine evil. In all cases there was something that pushed them towards the path of apparent evil, some event that left their mind structured differently to a more moral human. You cannot call them evil, as they were in effect forced into it by events. The same goes for good people, even Mother Tresia lost her temper once in a while, and Martin Luther King I imagine really hurt someone in the course of his life. And again, there were things that drove them towards that path. I'm not saying that Adolf Hitler and Martin Luther King should be thought of as the same, but there are greater complexities than that.

So why would I believe that there is a being totally evil? Or for that matter one that is totally good? Well because the bible tells me so. And who wrote the bible (or at least had a hand in its creation)? The good one! My isn't that a conincidence!

If there is a great war happening on the spiritual plane, then I can imagine one side trying to recruit the other. It reminds me of the US propaganda during the Second World War: "We will win-Because we have God on our side!". It is merely saying that we are the good guys, so fight with us! It tells you nothing of the real nature of both sides.

So who is good? Who is right? Well we really don't know. However I must profess a slight disbelief for the notion that Satan's way of getting people to join him is to promise eternal damnation if they do. Doesn't sound like the greatest plan of action.

So to me, it seems rather stupid to get drawn into this war. We don't know who to root for, if you think about it logically. Plus some of the things God has originated have been pretty nasty, look at the crusades for instance. So I do hope you will forgive me for stepping out of this war, good day ;)

God choses what gifts you have and what gifts you don't have.

Actually, most of your starting abilities will be a function of your starting race and class choices, any DM decisions or house rules not withstanding.

And yes, the ability to cast 1st level cleric spells is just about as real and meaningful as your tardbarking about demons, secret societies, and spiritual gifts.

If you're a puppet, very entertaining. If you actually believe any of your own puerile fantasies, get some help.

It is your own choice where you spend eternity.

*lol

I intend to spend it dead, thank you.

Oh, now I see, but as funny as it may seem now, you will not laugh when it happens. I do not believe in the Rapture, so I will still be here, but I will be sealed by God. I will be forced to endure somethings and spared from others, but those without the seal of God will be forced to suffer through all judgements, and many of these judgements will make you wish you could die.

And you sound a bit like you couldn't wait for that to happen and to gloat a bit, right? :D

How can anyone know when the antichrist or rapture is coming?:confused: That's basically saying "I can read the mind of God"

How can anyone know when the antichrist or rapture is coming?:confused: That's basically saying "I can read the mind of God"

They can't. I'm pretty sure there's a section in there that says that no man can know when the end times will come.

A reasonable and honest person is not immune to deception and wishful thinking.

That's true. But one need not assume that they were deceiving or being deceived simply because they have some evidence that you or I don't.


Because people are fallable. Their minds can play tricks on them - I've had friends who believed in ghosts and demons and such, and they told me on a regular basis that they were interacting and fighting with them, and I knew it was bullshit regardless of whether or not they believed it to have really happened.

Yes, people are fallible, which could be one reason why you DON'T believe in demons.
I also have a friend that goes on and on about angels and demons. He does have a long history of mental illness, so I tend not to take what he says too seriously. But that does not mean that I don't think demons exist. I reckon it is likely that both mental illnesses and demons exist (and angels of course) but that they do not necessarily go together.



They're fairytales. Stories. Legends. Metaphors for human cruelty. Nothing more.

If you want to fight demons, start by fighting the demons inside everyone around you. Greed, anger, hate, discrimination - start with those demons.

I believe in the demon of e.g greed as well. It is a different type of demon. The demon within. It is what the Bible refers to as the fallen self. It takes good desires and twists them until they become evil.


Under what logic is the existence of demons plausible?

I told you before. I have found enough truth in the Bible to see that I can trust it. And it also talks about demons, of which I cannot say that I have (or haven't) had any personal experience of. But because I can trust the message of the Bible, it is logical for me to accept that when it refers to literal demons, it means literal demons. A simple sort of logic that depends on the reliability of the scriptures.

Put that together with first hand accounts that I have heard from others (of demons), and I would say that it appears to be fairly convincing.


It's a legitimate question. Whether demons exist or not is an issue that can have serious consequences. For example, if a guy claims he killed a bunch of people because he was possessed, and demons are considered to be real, perhaps he shouldn't be punished. An issue of that importance should be decided by evidence, not by faith.

Yeah, that is a serious point. But I thought you were wanting me to provide you evidence over the internet, which is not the same thing.


Oh, and since it's just about impossible to prove a negative, the burden of proof, or evidence, rests on the person making the positive statement.

Now a statement like that just goes to show that you really were asking me for evidence over the internet. Either you are not intelligent enough to know that it can't be done (I can't even prove to you that I have milk in my fridge), or you are clever enough to know that it can't be done and were trying to catch me out. Either way, not clever enough, mate.

Secondly, I have given my reasons for believing in the existence of demons (on pg. 21-22 of this thread). Now what would be fair is if you were to give your reasons for not believing in them.


You and your "first hand accounts"! You know, I'm still pissed off at you from the Pagan Influences in Christianity thread, where I today posted an exhaustive and -- if I do say so myself -- quite dramatic response to your so-called first hand knowledge of things you know nothing about.

And if you are interested, I have replied to your 'dramatic' post.

That's true. But one need not assume that they were deceiving or being deceived simply because they have some evidence that you or I don't.

Logically, demons do not exist - the idea of magical powers etc. have no basis on anything in reality. So someone saying they have seen one with no evidence but their own testimony (which cannot be entirely trusted), cannot automatically be assumed as telling the truth. As to demons existing - we just don't know (Although I think that it's unlikely by logic, nothing can really be automatically dismissed completely)

I told you before. I have found enough truth in the Bible to see that I can trust it. And it also talks about demons, of which I cannot say that I have (or haven't) had any personal experience of. But because I can trust the message of the Bible, it is logical for me to accept that when it refers to literal demons, it means literal demons. A simple sort of logic that depends on the reliability of the scriptures.

Put that together with first hand accounts that I have heard from others (of demons), and I would say that it appears to be fairly convincing.

If I told you that a clear sky looked blue, you would say that is the truth (assuming you can see that too, as an example), however, it would be fairly absurd for you to believe me if I said that the Earth was 3 years old. Just becuase an amount of statements form a source can be trusted, does not mean that 100% of it can be trusted.