NationStates Jolt Archive

What do you think about demons? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be. The reason I am asking is lately I have had them on my mind a lot. I know that I need to fight them, but I don't know how. Also now adays you never hear about people being possessed. It may be because now we would think that they are just mentally retarded. Any thoughts?

What do you think about demons? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be. The reason I am asking is lately I have had them on my mind a lot. I know that I need to fight them, but I don't know how. Also now adays you never hear about people being possessed. It may be because now we would think that they are just mentally retarded. Any thoughts?

I believe your merry-go-round has broken down.

I believe your merry-go-round has broken down.

I concur with this statement 100%.

I believe your merry-go-round has broken down.
I know that it sounds crazy, just it is heavy on my heart.

Do any other Christians have any advice?

What do you think about demons? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be. The reason I am asking is lately I have had them on my mind a lot. I know that I need to fight them, but I don't know how. Also now adays you never hear about people being possessed. It may be because now we would think that they are just mentally retarded. Any thoughts?

Just live your life...dont worry about it.

They are probably just figments of your imaginiation.

Also..yeah, they're probably retards.

What do you think about demons? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be. The reason I am asking is lately I have had them on my mind a lot. I know that I need to fight them, but I don't know how. Also now adays you never hear about people being possessed. It may be because now we would think that they are just mentally retarded. Any thoughts?

It's ok... the Tooth Fairy and Mother Nature are holding all the demons at bay, which is why no one gets possessed anymore. And if they need your help in the fight, they will send one of the unicorns to fetch you. So currently, you don't need to fight them.

Just live your life...dont worry about it.

They are probably just figments of your imaginiation.

Also..yeah, they're probably retards.
Look, I know that they aren't just figments of my imaginiation. I can't do anything but live my life, and that is what is frustrating me.

Not this again!

No worries. Lips are sealed.

It's ok... the Tooth Fairy and Mother Nature are holding all the demons at bay, which is why no one gets possessed anymore. And if they need your help in the fight, they will send one of the unicorns to fetch you. So currently, you don't need to fight them.
Oh please. God has it under control and I know that he will win, so I shouldn't worry and I wouldn't say that I am worried. I just feel called. (By the way the Tooth Fairy and unicorns don't exist, also Mother Nature, not a person).

Demons hmph. The only demons around are metaphorical demons ^^

As for in your head, pick up a psychology text book. That'll probably help :D

Look, I know that they aren't just figments of my imaginiation. I can't do anything but live my life, and that is what is frustrating me.
Faith. Strong faith is the only power I know of that works against demons.

Hmm... I'd recomend talking to a priest or a pastor, pefreably one trained in psychology.

Look, I know that they aren't just figments of my imaginiation. I can't do anything but live my life, and that is what is frustrating me.

If you believe that to be true, then religion is not really the answer you need. In all seriousness here, if you are seeing demons, psychiatry is something you should look into as a solution.

Also now adays you never hear about people being possessed. It may be because now we would think that they are just mentally retarded. Any thoughts?

I dunno about you, but, personally, I've never witnessed or even heard about any person with Down's Syndrome or anything similar twist their head 360 degrees or violently contort their body, let alone speak in tongues or carry out a satanic ritual.

EDIT: Now, projectile vomitting is another matter...

As for in your head, pick up a psychology text book. That'll probably help :D
I am as sane as the next person and more level headed then most. I know that if you don't believe in God and don't think that demons are real that my statement carries little weight.

If you believe that to be true, then religion is not really the answer you need. In all seriousness here, if you are seeing demons, psychiatry is something you should look into as a solution.
I never said I saw a demon.

Don't demons require summoning? I wouldn't worry too much about possession, unless you're actually dabbling in the dark arts.

Don't demons require summoning? I wouldn't worry too much about possession, unless you're actually dabbling in the dark arts.
Dark arts? I am Christian and my faith does not permitted, plus it is not my I am worried about. Demons are not welcome or allowed in heart.

Faith. Strong faith is the only power I know of that works against demons.

Hmm... I'd recomend talking to a priest or a pastor, pefreably one trained in psychology.
I suppose that talking to my pastor would be wise, but I don't want to call him now. He's on vacation, plus from what I know he doesn't know much about demons, but maybe he knows some one.

So, if you're not worried about the demon for yourself, why are you worried about it, exactly?

I am as sane as the next person and more level headed then most. I know that if you don't believe in God and don't think that demons are real that my statement carries little weight.

But it does carry weight, in that it makes us concerned for your mental wellbeing. And most people with delusions THINK they are sane. Many delusions are not harmful, so it isn't a problem. But if at some point you get the idea that you are meant to be killing demons and start going around swinging an ax, this IS harmful, and should be dealt with by a mental health professional before it turns bloody.

I dunno about you, but, personally, I've never witnessed or even heard about any person with Down's Syndrome or anything similar twist their head 360 degrees or violently contort their body, let alone speak in tongues or carry out a satanic ritual.

EDIT: Now, projectile vomitting is another matter...
I suppose not, but I don't think that most scientists and doctors would ever say that some one was possessed.

I never said I saw a demon.

OK... that is a bit nitpicky... EXPERIENCING them in some way, then.

If what you are actually saying, however, is that you just 'know' they exist, without any proof or any sort of personal connection, then my Tooth Fairy and Mother Nature comment is valid... they are as real as your demons and can protect you from them... I know they can.

I suppose not, but I don't think that most scientists and doctors would ever say that some one was possessed.

Of course not. Most "demons" are simply medical or psychological phnomena that couldn't be explained away by primitive medecal knowledge in the past.

But it does carry weight, in that it makes us concerned for your mental wellbeing. And most people with delusions THINK they are sane. Many delusions are not harmful, so it isn't a problem. But if at some point you get the idea that you are meant to be killing demons and start going around swinging an ax, this IS harmful, and should be dealt with by a mental health professional before it turns bloody.
I appriciate your concern, but I couldn't kill demons. They are spiritual beings and if you don't believe in them, then what I am saying does sound crazy.

I would like to point out that, simply because some cultures do not believe in paranormal things, as a whole, doesn't mean they don't exist, and aren't very real for others. I have read that there are beliefs in India that wizards are very, very real. So too can demons be real for people.
It's easy to offhandedly say you think the person's crazy and dismiss it.
I happen to find talking to people who believe in things a little differently to be fascinating. :)

What do you think about demons? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be. The reason I am asking is lately I have had them on my mind a lot. I know that I need to fight them, but I don't know how.
You mean, like, sending letter bombs to the Republican Party headquarters? No, that actually isn't such a good plan and never works out quite as brilliantly as one would expect.
Not that I would know, or anything, its just, I, um . . . I have this friend, right . . .?

Of course not. Most "demons" are simply medical or psychological phnomena that couldn't be explained away by primitive medecal knowledge in the past.

Absolutely... anyone with epilepsy or any other sort of seizure disorder was considered possessed. Now, of course, medication can control those "demons". And, major motion pictures not withstanding, I doubt you would find many in the medical profession who would give any creedence to demon possession.

So, if you're not worried about the demon for yourself, why are you worried about it, exactly?
I am worried about others, about those who are not protected.

I would like to point out that, simply because some cultures do not believe in paranormal things, as a whole, doesn't mean they don't exist, and aren't very real for others. I have read that there are beliefs in India that wizards are very, very real. So too can demons be real for people.
It's easy to offhandedly say you think the person's crazy and dismiss it.
I happen to find talking to people who believe in things a little differently to be fascinating. :)

Crazy people are a lot more fun though. And of course wizards exist. I rolled one just the other day. 18 intelligence!

OK... that is a bit nitpicky... EXPERIENCING them in some way, then.

If what you are actually saying, however, is that you just 'know' they exist, without any proof or any sort of personal connection, then my Tooth Fairy and Mother Nature comment is valid... they are as real as your demons and can protect you from them... I know they can.

How do you feel about God?
There are a great many people who believe in that being, and it's a matter of faith. Should the billion+ people be locked away and told they're crazy? Maybe some of the extremist fundamentalists who are harmful...
I DO understand and agree with the differentiation between 'seeing' and 'experiencing' things. I have experienced God, but I would never say I have seen Him... unless it was in the sense that one were to say He is everywhere, so you always see Him... but that isn't how most people would think of it.

For the longest of times people have reported seeing many things-- whether from our world or another- sometimes they are reffered to as demons and at other times aliens, or many other things, sometimes it may simply be a crossed conection in ones own mind.-- first it would help if you could give a description of what your are seeing, people throughout the ages have descibed seeing many things that others may find to be ludicrous.
Is it just voices that you hear in your head or is it something that you see. Sometimes is is good to clarify even for yourself. It is possible that there may be many things that mankind does not yet understand.
Desciptions:
a. Demononic angel- A demon might ask for someone to kill or to do something against thier fellow man, like killing someone good.
b. Good angels- An angel might ask you to do something that would help mankind, like killing someone bad.
c. Aliens-An alien might ask why is man destroying the planet--and might tell you to kill all those that are doing so.
d. Psychosis- An imbalance in the brain may not necessarily ask you to kill.

Of course not. Most "demons" are simply medical or psychological phnomena that couldn't be explained away by primitive medecal knowledge in the past.
Of course, many of them were. But what about the ones that were real and that are real. Now they are going to be dismissed. But then again why would demons possess some one if the person would end up in a mental hosiptal, there would be no point. Unless, the possession was different, something more. . . intellegent.

Ok, just to let all of you know: Just because you havn't experienced this type of stuff, or are not a Christian, don't make fun of him.


I myself have never experienced demons. I know they exist. I wish I could help you, but I have no idea how. Someone at Church, maybe? God Bless.

What do you think about demons? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be. The reason I am asking is lately I have had them on my mind a lot. I know that I need to fight them, but I don't know how. Also now adays you never hear about people being possessed. It may be because now we would think that they are just mentally retarded. Any thoughts?

I think you're out of your mind. No, really. I think you should turn off your computer and go visit a Psychologist. Do not pass Go, do not collect 200 dollars. There may be treatment that can help you.

Or, perhaps, losing the hallucinigens might not be a bad idea

i believe in demons.........because they ARE real. all you have to do is spend time in the Word....daily. and let God be your shelter. don't let people get you down. until ur on this side of things, it's hard to understand that there really is a REAL spiritual world, with REAL consiquences.....i'm here if you ever need anything

a brother in Christ

How do you feel about God?
There are a great many people who believe in that being, and it's a matter of faith. Should the billion+ people be locked away and told they're crazy? Maybe some of the extremist fundamentalists who are harmful...
I DO understand and agree with the differentiation between 'seeing' and 'experiencing' things. I have experienced God, but I would never say I have seen Him... unless it was in the sense that one were to say He is everywhere, so you always see Him... but that isn't how most people would think of it.
Well, how do I feel about God? I feel grateful to him, he gave me Jesus and that is more than enough. No, those who believe in God should not be locked away, but those who don't need to accept the differences.

I am worried about others, about those who are not protected.

What others? All others in general, or specific others?
Because I find spending time worrying about the fate of the entire human race to be pretty pointless, ESPECIALLY when it comes to matters of faith. As you can see from the numerous sarcastic, non-serious comments abounding, a great many people aren't worth worrying about, as they're not concerned for themselves in the first place. :)

I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be.


I suppose asking on the basis of what evidence you consider demons to be real would be bad form, yes?

Sure I believe in demons. Some of their names are Ann Coulter, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Tom DeLay... :lol:

What others? All others in general, or specific others?
Because I find spending time worrying about the fate of the entire human race to be pretty pointless, ESPECIALLY when it comes to matters of faith. As you can see from the numerous sarcastic, non-serious comments abounding, a great many people aren't worth worrying about, as they're not concerned for themselves in the first place. :)
Well, you should worry about everyone who needs help, and can be helped, no matter what they do. Whether they make fun of you or not. Revenge isn't something that most Christians think about, and neither is hatred. Disliking someone should not stand in the way of aiding them in there time of need.

The idea of posession is kind of dubious anyway. If I were a demon and wanted to get things done in the real world, I wouldnt do it by making the host flip out and puke a lot. I'd just do mean things and be selfish and such. In any case, without compelling evidence for it, posession isn't cause for concern. When you think too much about something that has no concrete symptoms, treatment or cure, it's a sort of medical paranoia. Maybe spiritual hypochondria.

i believe in demons.........because they ARE real. all you have to do is spend time in the Word....daily. and let God be your shelter. don't let people get you down. until ur on this side of things, it's hard to understand that there really is a REAL spiritual world, with REAL consiquences.....i'm here if you ever need anything

a brother in Christ
Thank you so much. I know all of that, but I am just getting so frustrated with it. I pray every day and study the Bible. I search for the answers, I know they will come, many have already. It is just the waiting and not being able to take real action. I mean praying is real, but I mean something more. Something more than just being able to say no to sin. I feel called to take action, but I don't know how. I feel concerned about those around me. I don't want them to be forever lost. I know that maybe it may be my calling to go out and share the Word, but I just don't feel that it is enough. I don't believe in God any less, only more. But this spiritual world has now been made very very real to me. I can sense it all around. There is a great battle being fought. I have been a Christian for as long as I can remember and never before have I felt something this strongly. Please pray for me. Pray for the world. Tell your friends to pray. The battle is growing fierce. I can't give you my name because it would be foolish of me, but I will give you a name that I sometimes use. Nokamus Leland.
Your sister in Christ.

Well, how do I feel about God? I feel grateful to him, he gave me Jesus and that is more than enough. No, those who believe in God should not be locked away, but those who don't need to accept the differences.

Sorry, that one wasn't aimed at you. I was quoting one of the dissenting voices to get a conversation going on other people's beliefs to see if there's a pattern to those who would say you're crazy for believing in things that exist outside of what most people consider "normal."

What do you think about demons? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be. The reason I am asking is lately I have had them on my mind a lot. I know that I need to fight them, but I don't know how. Also now adays you never hear about people being possessed. It may be because now we would think that they are just mentally retarded. Any thoughts?


The only demons I know are the human ones - rapists, murderers, child molesters, abusers of all kinds. I don't need to look to the supernatural to see evil.

Zukariaa']Well, you should worry about everyone who needs help, and can be helped, no matter what they do. Whether they make fun of you or not. Revenge isn't something that most Christians think about, and neither is hatred. Disliking someone should not stand in the way of aiding them in there time of need.

I don't think about revenge. I don't hate or dislike them. I'm simply not the sort who goes around trying to convert. I don't see that as being helpful in most everyday life, since most people don't want to be converted.
Should any one of those people one day change their minds, and need help, I would certainly offer what help I could.

What others? All others in general, or specific others?
Because I find spending time worrying about the fate of the entire human race to be pretty pointless, ESPECIALLY when it comes to matters of faith. As you can see from the numerous sarcastic, non-serious comments abounding, a great many people aren't worth worrying about, as they're not concerned for themselves in the first place. :)
I don't appreciate the sarcastic remarks, but I can't hate people for it. As a Christian I love my enemies (not that any of you are) and will pray for those who persecute me. God put it on my heart to care about the world. It is my calling. The answer is not simple, but I could never just live life for me.

Sorry, that one wasn't aimed at you. I was quoting one of the dissenting voices to get a conversation going on other people's beliefs to see if there's a pattern to those who would say you're crazy for believing in things that exist outside of what most people consider "normal."
I didn't mean to sound angry.

The only demons I know are the human ones - rapists, murderers, child molesters, abusers of all kinds. I don't need to look to the supernatural to see evil.
The effects of the Evil One are every where.

I don't think about revenge. I don't hate or dislike them. I'm simply not the sort who goes around trying to convert. I don't see that as being helpful in most everyday life, since most people don't want to be converted.
Should any one of those people one day change their minds, and need help, I would certainly offer what help I could.
Well, to say someone isn't worth saving just didn't sound good. Sorry, maybe I misinterpreted. I don't try to convert either, because those without faith usually think that Christians are trying to force Christianity on them. :confused:

The effects of the Evil One are every where.

Since I don't believe in the Devil, the point is moot.

Thank you so much. I know all of that, but I am just getting so frustrated with it. I pray every day and study the Bible. I search for the answers, I know they will come, many have already. It is just the waiting and not being able to take real action. I mean praying is real, but I mean something more. Something more than just being able to say no to sin. I feel called to take action, but I don't know how. I feel concerned about those around me. I don't want them to be forever lost. I know that maybe it may be my calling to go out and share the Word, but I just don't feel that it is enough. I don't believe in God any less, only more. But this spiritual world has now been made very very real to me. I can sense it all around. There is a great battle being fought. I have been a Christian for as long as I can remember and never before have I felt something this strongly. Please pray for me. Pray for the world. Tell your friends to pray. The battle is growing fierce. I can't give you my name because it would be foolish of me, but I will give you a name that I sometimes use. Nokamus Leland.
Your sister in Christ.

The bolded lines in particular are of interest to me. When sharing spiritual stories before with someone, he spoke in much the same way of a great battle brewing, and being fought daily. It's something most people don't see, but one day they will, because he believed the children of God would have to rise up together to fight off an army of evil. Not necessarily demons, but rather humans who had sided with the devil.
Now, I know people have been saying this since forever, too. People have been predicting such end-all battles since the death of Christ (and before). The theme isn't really a new one, so if that sets your mind at ease, then I'm happy. If not, I'm not sure what more I can say about that...

The effects of the Evil One are every where.

Don't be silly. Dick Cheney can't do it ALL himself.

Don't be silly. Dick Cheney can't do it ALL himself.
I wasn't referring to him. I was referring to Satan, Lucifer.

I suppose asking on the basis of what evidence you consider demons to be real would be bad form, yes?

Apparently so.

Zukariaa']Well, to say someone isn't worth saving just didn't sound good. Sorry, maybe I misinterpreted. I don't try to convert either, because those without faith usually think that Christians are trying to force Christianity on them. :confused:

Sorry, I can get a bit sarcastic and biting back sometimes when people off-handedly call me and others who believe in paranormal things crazy. ;) I mean, I realize it may sound nuts to some people... but when you've seen/done things that people can't explain, and you talk to others with similar experiences, or even different ones that are related in spirit, it's hard to be flippant about 'coincidences' and strange things out there.
I'm not saying everything that happens to me that I can't explain is a direct cause of God, either... but there is just a FEELING to it, when you know that it is actually the right answer... and other than that, I can't possibly explain it in any way to try to make others believe. I just hope that everyone can have such experiences to show them the grace and power of God (or whatever god they choose to worship).

I wasn't referring to him. I was referring to Satan, Lucifer.

Well, since we can prove that Cheney exists, I think he's higher on the priority list of people to watch out for.

I suppose asking on the basis of what evidence you consider demons to be real would be bad form, yes?
Do I really need to give a basis? I am asking for advice and those who don't believe what I am talking about is real do not have the type or advice I need.

What do you think about demons? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be. The reason I am asking is lately I have had them on my mind a lot. I know that I need to fight them, but I don't know how. Also now adays you never hear about people being possessed. It may be because now we would think that they are just mentally retarded. Any thoughts?
Duh they exist. They're called Republicans.

:cool:

Duh they exist. They're called Republicans.

:cool:
I am a Republican, and I am certaintly not a demon.

I am a Republican, and I am certaintly not a demon.

Because you haven't been elected yet.

Because you haven't been elected yet.
I am not a politian.

Hey, Keyi, just wondering: have you experienced anything in connection with demons? Is anyone you know possessed, or is this feeling that you need to fight based more on the general awareness of evil in the world? If it's the latter, remember, you can only do what you can do. Most people are aware of the danger of global warming, but their efforts to fight it are on the scale of their own lives: trying to live without wasting resources, trying to not hasten the process. I think that's what you can do about demons. Unless you've got a large group helping you, just try to live a virtuous life.

Do I really need to give a basis? I am asking for advice and those who don't believe what I am talking about is real do not have the type or advice I need.

Ah, but how will you know whether they actually believe in the same thing as you, or have a sound basis for that belief, if you are not prepared to reveal your own grounds?

Yes, demons are a problem. :rolleyes: But if you send seven dollars to my address, I will send you a demon killing kit, along with a TOTALLY FREE mystery item for an extra 3 dollars! Trust me, demons will be pleading for mercy once you buy my demon killing kit. :rolleyes:

Ah, but how will you know whether they actually believe in the same thing as you, or have a sound basis for that belief, if you are not prepared to reveal your own grounds?

True. The people giving advice could just be possessed, trying to lead you astray.

Hey, Keyi, just wondering: have you experienced anything in connection with demons? Is anyone you know possessed, or is this feeling that you need to fight based more on the general awareness of evil in the world? If it's the latter, remember, you can only do what you can do. Most people are aware of the danger of global warming, but their efforts to fight it are on the scale of their own lives: trying to live without wasting resources, trying to not hasten the process. I think that's what you can do about demons. Unless you've got a large group helping you, just try to live a virtuous life.
It is based on a general awareness of evil in this world. In your opinion, how large of a group do I need? I have some people together that felt called to bring together, though I still am not sure of their purpose. There are 9 of us so far, I know we need more, but how many?

Its funny that the vast majority of people who get "posessed" by demons are in fact Christians. Perhaps they just confuse mental illness and other problems with this demon archetype that their religion has created, while other cultures lack the scapegoat.

Or maybe Jesus was a demon.

I'd be interested to know what battle you're talking about. Who are the combatants?

Also, what "others" are you worried about, particularly? Do you really think people with Downs Syndrome are possessed by demons? Do you think this about people who develop brain disorders or mental illnesses, even if doctors can precisely diagnose the physical cause of those illnesses? Or are you talking about other kinds of people? What would cause you to think a person was possessed or in danger of being possessed?

Also, you say you feel called to fight demons and feel frustrated at not being able to take action, but you also say that demons are spiritual beings. What kind of "action" do you expect to be taking against them?

Finally, you say you know god is on top of things. Then why are you worried? Surely, god will tell you when he needs you to do something. Until then, why can't you just relax and practice your faith?

Of course, many of them were. But what about the ones that were real and that are real. Now they are going to be dismissed. But then again why would demons possess some one if the person would end up in a mental hosiptal, there would be no point. Unless, the possession was different, something more. . . intellegent.AFAIK demons can't posess someone who doesn't accept it, right? That means it's a free will issue, a human issue. Demons can be pretty much ignored if the blame falls squarely on a human decision...

It is based on a general awareness of evil in this world. In your opinion, how large of a group do I need? I have some people together that felt called to bring together, though I still am not sure of their purpose. There are 9 of us so far, I know we need more, but how many?

ROFL, you need a whole demon fighting army. Maybe you can start another inquisition.

Its funny that the vast majority of people who get "posessed" by demons are in fact Christians.

...or perhaps, more to the point, Roman Catholics.

True. The people giving advice could just be possessed, trying to lead you astray.

I'm RELATIVELY sure I'm not possessed...
There is the trouble of me not remembering much of my youth...
And that ONE time... ;)
Hehe. j/k

faith. inner daemons are something every person on this planet faces in due time. Faith. and a big gun....:sniper:

True. The people giving advice could just be possessed, trying to lead you astray.
Yes they could, but does it matter? In the end, it won't matter. I just want to hear some other opinions. In the end it isn't my job to decide, its God's. I wouldn't follow down any path offered unless I knew that it was what God wanted.

It is based on a general awareness of evil in this world. In your opinion, how large of a group do I need? I have some people together that felt called to bring together, though I still am not sure of their purpose. There are 9 of us so far, I know we need more, but how many?

You know, the world isn't coming to an end just because each generation thinks it is. Think about it.

Bubonic pleague

1918 Spanish Flu

World War One

World War Two

Those were a lot worse than global warming, and it seems the world is still in one peace.

P.S. If you think the Mayans predictions of the world ending soon will be correct, just remember that the people killed themselves off. :p

Do I really need to give a basis?

Well, if demons are real, wouldn't it be a worthwhile and beneficial thing to convince a doubting Thomas like me of their existence?

You don't need to worry about demons. God created everything, demons included. Demons may think they are doing the will of Lucifer, but they are wrong. Everything that happens everywhere is the will of God. All suffering has a divine purpose, whether we understand it or not. If you ever do see a demon, just laugh at it and say "God's will be done" - when you think about, demons are pretty silly - they think they're all scary and evil - but really they're ignorant and useless. They are pawns of God.

It is based on a general awareness of evil in this world. In your opinion, how large of a group do I need? I have some people together that felt called to bring together, though I still am not sure of their purpose. There are 9 of us so far, I know we need more, but how many?

The issue is not the number of people so much as the resources the group possesses. As I'm not sure how you would fight possession, I'm not sure what resources you would need.

Its funny that the vast majority of people who get "posessed" by demons are in fact Christians. Perhaps they just confuse mental illness and other problems with this demon archetype that their religion has created, while other cultures lack the scapegoat.
Then they were not really Christians. A Christian cannot be possessed if their faith is genuine. Many claim to be Christians and aren't.

You know, the world isn't coming to an end just because each generation thinks it is. Think about it.

Bubonic pleague

1918 Spanish Flu

World War One

World War Two

Those were a lot worse than global warming, and it seems the world is still in one peace.

For the most part those are particularly humano-centric disasters, whereas global warming could have grave ramifications for all Earth's species, so I think your claim that they are worse is dubious.

It is based on a general awareness of evil in this world. In your opinion, how large of a group do I need? I have some people together that felt called to bring together, though I still am not sure of their purpose. There are 9 of us so far, I know we need more, but how many?

So, what has this group been called together to do? Do you think there will come a divine message that will inspire you all to action in some way?
I'm still curious about this, because it sounds a lot like what I heard from the guy I talked to down in Texas...

It is based on a general awareness of evil in this world. In your opinion, how large of a group do I need? I have some people together that felt called to bring together, though I still am not sure of their purpose. There are 9 of us so far, I know we need more, but how many?
Well, 9 sounds like a good number to start a Bible study group.

But whatever you end up doing, DO NOT do anything that could end up being a cult. Use the internet, talk to your church leaders, and to your local police about what constitutes a cult; make a checklist; and DO NOT DO ANY OF THOSE THINGS. And don't buy any guns. That makes cops very nervous.

Trust me on this.

So, what has this group been called together to do? Do you think there will come a divine message that will inspire you all to action in some way?
I'm still curious about this, because it sounds a lot like what I heard from the guy I talked to down in Texas...

It probably won't turn out as cool as the Ghostbusters.

Because you haven't been elected yet.

Any politician, regardless of party, is demonic. (stalks off, chanting, Hill-ah-ree, Hill-ah-ree)

Then they were not really Christians. A Christian cannot be possessed if their faith is genuine.

Where does this piece of dogma come from?

Then they were not really Christians. A Christian cannot be possessed if their faith is genuine. Many claim to be Christians and aren't.

According to the New Testament, a true believer can and does do miracles just like Jesus did (Matt 21:22). How many miracles have you done? Or are you just claiming to be a Christian and aren't?

Where does this piece of dogma come from?

It's from the part about unknowable quantities. Something like this: "If you pray and believe enough you'll be alright. If something goes wrong, you obviously weren't praying/believing enough."

You don't need to worry about demons. God created everything, demons included. Demons may think they are doing the will of Lucifer, but they are wrong. Everything that happens everywhere is the will of God. All suffering has a divine purpose, whether we understand it or not. If you ever do see a demon, just laugh at it and say "God's will be done" - when you think about, demons are pretty silly - they think they're all scary and evil - but really they're ignorant and useless. They are pawns of God.

You've read Memnoch-The Devil, perchance?

I'd be interested to know what battle you're talking about. Who are the combatants?

Also, what "others" are you worried about, particularly? Do you really think people with Downs Syndrome are possessed by demons? Do you think this about people who develop brain disorders or mental illnesses, even if doctors can precisely diagnose the physical cause of those illnesses? Or are you talking about other kinds of people? What would cause you to think a person was possessed or in danger of being possessed?

Also, you say you feel called to fight demons and feel frustrated at not being able to take action, but you also say that demons are spiritual beings. What kind of "action" do you expect to be taking against them?

Finally, you say you know god is on top of things. Then why are you worried? Surely, god will tell you when he needs you to do something. Until then, why can't you just relax and practice your faith?
The others, well that I have answered. I can't say names, I don't know them. No, people with Downs Syndrome aren't all possessed, but now adays doctors just dismiss some of those who are possessed as having some sort of mental illness.

I don't know what kind of action. Where ever God leads. And I am practicing my faith. Worried was not the correct word to use. I am concerned, I care. I am seeking out answers. God never told to us not. He said to seek and we will find, ask and we will recieve, knock and the door will be opened unto us.

According to the New Testament, a true believer can and does do miracles just like Jesus did (Matt 21:22). How many miracles have you done? Or are you just claiming to be a Christian and aren't?

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU JUST SAID THAT
I have been looking for such a quote in the Bible for a long time!
Many thanks! :)

I dont mind suffering if its staggered but I dont understand the point if it goes on for an indecent amount of time

So, what has this group been called together to do? Do you think there will come a divine message that will inspire you all to action in some way?
I'm still curious about this, because it sounds a lot like what I heard from the guy I talked to down in Texas...
Texas, no one in our group is from Texas. Most were orginally from Colorado. I don't know what will inspire us, an event perhaps, some sort of sign. But I don't expect God to send an angel down and tell us. Right now all we do is pray, wait, watch, and study.

Where does this piece of dogma come from?
I've heard this from many Christian denominations. The Puritans, for instance (source of several American denominations), believed you had to give Satan permission to use your soul. I just watched a documentary about the Salem witch trials -- the accusations weren't that the supposed witches were casting spells but that demonic specters in the forms of the accused people were tormenting the ones who did the accusing. Apparently, by making a pact with the devil, you gave him permission to take your form, which he otherwise couldn't do to a Christian. So if someone claimed they saw a specter of you shooting spitballs at them, that was supposed to be proof that you had joined the dark side.

The point is, evil can't forcibly invade a Christian soul, according to this belief.

I've heard this from many Christian denominations. The Puritans, for instance (source of several American denominations), believed you had to give Satan permission to use your soul. I just watched a documentary about the Salem witch trials -- the accusations weren't that the supposed witches were casting spells but that demonic specters in the forms of the accused people were tormenting the ones who did the accusing. Apparently, by making a pact with the devil, you gave him permission to take your form, which he otherwise couldn't do to a Christian. So if someone claimed they saw a specter of you shooting spitballs at them, that was supposed to be proof that you had joined the dark side.

The point is, evil can't forcibly invade a Christian soul, according to this belief.
in a way that makes sense--but I dont think surrending control to demons is always a conscious choice either

According to the New Testament, a true believer can and does do miracles just like Jesus did (Matt 21:22). How many miracles have you done? Or are you just claiming to be a Christian and aren't?
Paul also tells us that miraclous powers is a spiritual gift. Not every one has it. I have never been in a sitituation to know whether I have it or not. Please do not take the Bible out of context.

I've heard this from many Christian denominations. The Puritans, for instance (source of several American denominations), believed you had to give Satan permission to use your soul. I just watched a documentary about the Salem witch trials -- the accusations weren't that the supposed witches were casting spells but that demonic specters in the forms of the accused people were tormenting the ones who did the accusing. Apparently, by making a pact with the devil, you gave him permission to take your form, which he otherwise couldn't do to a Christian. So if someone claimed they saw a specter of you shooting spitballs at them, that was supposed to be proof that you had joined the dark side.

The point is, evil can't forcibly invade a Christian soul, according to this belief.
A Christian soul, but others are tricked. Satan is the master deciever. He tricks people into allowing him to enter into their lives. Many never really notice what he is doing if they do not have the Holy Spirit to show them.

Paul also tells us that miraclous powers is a spiritual gift. Not every one has it. I have never been in a sitituation to know whether I have it or not. Please do not take the Bible out of context.
everyone CAN have it if they chose

A Christian soul, but others are tricked. Satan is the master deciever. He tricks people into allowing him to enter into their lives. Many never really notice what he is doing if they do not have the Holy Spirit to show them.
I agree with that

The others, well that I have answered. I can't say names, I don't know them. No, people with Downs Syndrome aren't all possessed, but now adays doctors just dismiss some of those who are possessed as having some sort of mental illness.

I don't know what kind of action. Where ever God leads. And I am practicing my faith. Worried was not the correct word to use. I am concerned, I care. I am seeking out answers. God never told to us not. He said to seek and we will find, ask and we will recieve, knock and the door will be opened unto us.
I didn't expect you to name names, but do you have an idea of what kinds of people you think you should worry about, or what kinds of things are signs that a person is possessed?

See, my problem is that, by seeming to focus on people who are physically different -- people with Downs Syndrome or hormonally induced depression or behavior shifts caused by brain injury or stroke, etc -- you seem to be ignoring people who make choices about their behavior. Are you more worried about people who seem different or out of control of themselves than about people who actually harm others or themselves?

Are you only concerned about demonic possession, or are you also concerned about people who perhaps choose to do evil acts -- killers, rapists, etc. -- whether they are actually possessed or not?

Where does this piece of dogma come from?
If you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your mouth that you confess and are justified and with your heart that you believe and are saved.

One must believe it to be true, not all those who call themselves Christians do.

Ok, you need pure silver. You must carve the following symbols on it, and perform the correct incantations. http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=necro4221mq.gif
You MUST NOT let the sun see it. If you do let the sun see it, it will steal away its power, and you will have to wash it in the waters of camphor, and you will have to repeat the previous incantations. Although it would be better to just make a completely new one.

For more detailed instructions refer to this link: http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/books/necro_proj/n_hazred.html

A Christian soul, but others are tricked.

So, you're claiming that no Christian can be possessed by a demon?

everyone CAN have it if they chose
God choses what gifts you have and what gifts you don't have.

Paul also tells us that miraclous powers is a spiritual gift. Not every one has it. I have never been in a sitituation to know whether I have it or not. Please do not take the Bible out of context.

It was completely in context. Jesus did a miracle, and then he told his disciples they could do that and much more if they truly had faith. This has nothing to do with the 'gifts' that Paul spoke of. In addition, this is Jesus speaking in the gospels. Paul hadn't even come on the scene yet. Christians always confuse Jesus with Paul.

The fact is, the gospels state (and the verse I mentioned wasn't the only place, I'm looking for the others in between these posts) that everyone who truly believes can and will do miracles. It uses miracles as a litmus test to see who is saved and who isn't, and who truly has faith and who doesn't.

in a way that makes sense--but I dont think surrending control to demons is always a conscious choice either
Then you're not a Puritan. We have that in common.

If you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your mouth that you confess and are justified and with your heart that you believe and are saved.

One must believe it to be true, not all those who call themselves Christians do.
one must embrace their own inner deity but your correct the spoken word carries power

I didn't expect you to name names, but do you have an idea of what kinds of people you think you should worry about, or what kinds of things are signs that a person is possessed?

See, my problem is that, by seeming to focus on people who are physically different -- people with Downs Syndrome or hormonally induced depression or behavior shifts caused by brain injury or stroke, etc -- you seem to be ignoring people who make choices about their behavior. Are you more worried about people who seem different or out of control of themselves than about people who actually harm others or themselves?

Are you only concerned about demonic possession, or are you also concerned about people who perhaps choose to do evil acts -- killers, rapists, etc. -- whether they are actually possessed or not?
I want to fight all evil, but right now I am focusing on demonic possession. I am not saying that all handicapped are possessed, most probably aren't what I am saying is that there surely are some who are and doctors would have seen that it wasn't a natural handicapped after their testing, but they still would dismiss as some sort of new medical condition.

Then you're not a Puritan. We have that in common.
I loathe puritans

A Christian soul, but others are tricked. Satan is the master deciever. He tricks people into allowing him to enter into their lives. Many never really notice what he is doing if they do not have the Holy Spirit to show them.
Well, obviously this rule only applies to Christians. The rest of us are on our own.

God choses what gifts you have and what gifts you don't have.

Not according to this passage in Matthew I'm reading... it's what I've always felt to be true, and now that I've read it, it resonates with absolute truth in my soul and every fibre of my being.
We choose.

I don't know how useful my advice might be, but the only suggestion that I have is to encourage the people you meet to live virtuously (temperance, justice and fidelity being the crucial ones for many) and thereby cultivate a blessed or happy spirit (a eudaimon) that would move them to act and live well. That's the only understanding of daimonia that I accept and therefore the only way I can approach your problem, but best wishes nonetheless.

God choses what gifts you have and what gifts you don't have.
yes we all have our unique talents

I loathe puritans

I don't know any puritans, myself. I'd imagine if I did they'd think I was posessed. If I am posessed, though, then the demon in question is a pretty cool dude.

It was completely in context. Jesus did a miracle, and then he told his disciples they could do that and much more if they truly had faith. This has nothing to do with the 'gifts' that Paul spoke of. In addition, this is Jesus speaking in the gospels. Paul hadn't even come on the scene yet. Christians always confuse Jesus with Paul.

The fact is, the gospels state (and the verse I mentioned wasn't the only place, I'm looking for the others in between these posts) that everyone who truly believes can and will do miracles. It uses miracles as a litmus test to see who is saved and who isn't, and who truly has faith and who doesn't.
If God wanted a person to do a miracle, one could, but he if he doesn't one can't. He told his disciples to go out and do miracles, but they could only perform the ones that were part of the will of God. Not ever Christian will encounter in their life a place where God desires for a miracle to be performed. That does not mean that they aren't Christian. But, yes any Christian could perform a miracle if it were on God's terms, not their own.

I loathe puritans
We have this in common, too. We share it with just about everyone who ever met a Puritan. ;)

I want to fight all evil, but right now I am focusing on demonic possession. I am not saying that all handicapped are possessed, most probably aren't what I am saying is that there surely are some who are and doctors would have seen that it wasn't a natural handicapped after their testing, but they still would dismiss as some sort of new medical condition.
true but thats cause Doctors have a God complex

Not according to this passage in Matthew I'm reading... it's what I've always felt to be true, and now that I've read it, it resonates with absolute truth in my soul and every fibre of my being.
We choose.
Tell me the verses.

If you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your mouth that you confess and are justified and with your heart that you believe and are saved.

One must believe it to be true, not all those who call themselves Christians do.

This is a prime example of Western pop-culture Christianity. The Christian scriptures, the NT, does not teach that a profession of faith and belief alone will save you. Nor did early Christians believe this. The Catholics didn't believe it, and even the Protestant reformers didn't believe it. This is a relatively new development (last century and a half).

Jesus stated that you must obey the commandments to be saved, and that professing faith was not enough (Matt 7:21-23, Matt 19:16-17).

Paul stated that you can believe in vain, if you don't adhere to the exact gospel that he taught (1 Corinthians 15:1)

The epistle 1 John 3:6 states that you aren't truly saved unless you stop sinning. Early Christians agreed with this, such as Irenaeus and Tertullian.

Both baptism and communion/eucharist are stated as necessary for salvation in the NT (John 6:53, John 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21). Once again, these two sacraments were stated as necessary for salvation by early Chrstians as well. The Catholic church kept these, and even the Protestant reformers like Martin Luther agreed that you had to keep these two sacraments to be saved.

If you want a more detailed commentary on all of the criteria that is actually outlined in the NT to be saved, rather than what is simply taught to you in church, you can visit my website:
http://shemaantimissionary.tripod.com/id12.html

Well, obviously this rule only applies to Christians. The rest of us are on our own.
satan collects souls

true but thats cause Doctors have a God complex

I don't think they "dismiss" it as an illness so much as "analyse and diagnose" it as such.

satan collects souls

I wonder if he has some doubles. Maybe I could trade with him.

I don't know any puritans, myself. I'd imagine if I did they'd think I was posessed. If I am posessed, though, then the demon in question is a pretty cool dude.
I think being possessed would be far more interesting then being forced to endure life as a Puritan

If God wanted a person to do a miracle, one could, but he if he doesn't one can't. He told his disciples to go out and do miracles, but they could only perform the ones that were part of the will of God. Not ever Christian will encounter in their life a place where God desires for a miracle to be performed. That does not mean that they aren't Christian. But, yes any Christian could perform a miracle if it were on God's terms, not their own.

Perhaps, and I'm speaking from personal experience now, people simply have a natural affinity for doing certain miracles... perhaps there are things they BELIEVE they can do, so they can. But if they could learn to believe in other things, they could do those as well.
I refuse to believe God would give me limited gifts. ;)

one must embrace their own inner deity but your correct the spoken word carries power
Oh, so you're a unitarian then (assuming you're a Christian at all). If I were a Christian, I'd be a unitarian.


(Fave quote from a British Unitarian minister talking about another Unitarian who was accused of denying the divinity of Christ: "Deny the divinity of Christ? I've never denied the divinity of any man!" :) )

true but thats cause Doctors have a God complex

Wouldn't a God complex mean they wouldn't accept something to be unknown? I thought Keyi said they would view it as a new condition.

Also, Keyi: are you more worried about what possessed people are doing to others, or what the demons are doing to them?

I think being possessed would be far more interesting then being forced to endure life as a Puritan

Better musical selection, anyway.

What do you think about demons? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be. The reason I am asking is lately I have had them on my mind a lot. I know that I need to fight them, but I don't know how. Also now adays you never hear about people being possessed. It may be because now we would think that they are just mentally retarded. Any thoughts?

There are many demons running amok in the world, doing their best to cause chaos and ruin.
It's just that demons aren't exactly what people think.

In our primative times, when humanity didn't know anything, we were really superstitious and we thought silly things. For example, if a person fell ill we would often attribute their illness to a demons (invisible, malicious entities) possessing the person (entering into their body, and damaging physical and mental function).

Now, of course, we know better. We know that illness is caused by a virus or bacteria (invisible, malicious entities) infecting the person (entering into their body, and damaging physical and mental function).

What exactly is the difference between these two views? Not much.

Is there much difference between battling drug addiction and trying to exorcise a demon who has infected you and who makes you do things?
Not much.

Are there actual intelligent magical creatures behind these sorts of things, trying to tempt and/or destroy us by exploiting our physical and mental weaknesses?
Maybe.
It kind of nets out the same either way; you might as well assume that they are creatures that are deliberately and actively trying to destroy you, because whether or not it's deliberate, it can be just as deadly.

How to fight them?
Use logic and common sense. If a demon manifests as a physical or mental illness, then it can be exorcized with drugs, therapy, and/or surgery.
If it manifests as an addiction, then it can be battled through conventional medical treatment, willpower, and religious faith.
If it manifests as a fire-breathing, scaly creature with horns and goat legs, then I'd suggest holy water, silver bullets, crosses (or other religious symbols), and possibly high explosives.
(Or possibly just medication)

We have this in common, too. We share it with just about everyone who ever met a Puritan. ;)
puritans should be imprisoned in S&M clubs called HELL or somethin--anyone that fetishes suffering to that extent is a repressed freak:p

Tell me the verses.

After Jesus causes the withering of a fig tree he says,
Matthew 21:21 "Verily I say unto you, if ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive."

If God wanted a person to do a miracle, one could, but he if he doesn't one can't. He told his disciples to go out and do miracles, but they could only perform the ones that were part of the will of God. Not ever Christian will encounter in their life a place where God desires for a miracle to be performed. That does not mean that they aren't Christian. But, yes any Christian could perform a miracle if it were on God's terms, not their own.

I'm sorry, the Bible doesn't say this. You're just making excuses now. The Bible states that those who have faith not only can, but WILL do miracles that are greater than those of Jesus. (Mark 16:17-18, Matt 21:22, etc) In fact, if you believe that Jesus is God, since Jesus said that everyone who has faith will do miracles, then it is obviously God's will that you do a miracle (assuming you really have faith).

So if you really have faith, why aren't you regularly doing miracles as Jesus stated all of the faithful would do?

satan collects souls
Satan is a chump.

I want to fight all evil, but right now I am focusing on demonic possession. I am not saying that all handicapped are possessed, most probably aren't what I am saying is that there surely are some who are and doctors would have seen that it wasn't a natural handicapped after their testing, but they still would dismiss as some sort of new medical condition.


As a person with a disability, I must object to that. Most aren't? No, Miss. None of us are. And I'm not even sure I understand your comment about "wasn't a natural handicapped". Could you clarify that, please?

This is a prime example of Western pop-culture Christianity. The Christian scriptures, the NT, does not teach that a profession of faith and belief alone will save you. Nor did early Christians believe this. The Catholics didn't believe it, and even the Protestant reformers didn't believe it. This is a relatively new development (last century and a half).

Jesus stated that you must obey the commandments to be saved, and that professing faith was not enough (Matt 7:21-23, Matt 19:16-17).

Paul stated that you can believe in vain, if you don't adhere to the exact gospel that he taught (1 Corinthians 15:1)

The epistle 1 John 3:6 states that you aren't truly saved unless you stop sinning. Early Christians agreed with this, such as Irenaeus and Tertullian.

Both baptism and communion/eucharist are stated as necessary for salvation in the NT (John 6:53, John 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21). Once again, these two sacraments were stated as necessary for salvation by early Chrstians as well. The Catholic church kept these, and even the Protestant reformers like Martin Luther agreed that you had to keep these two sacraments to be saved.

If you want a more detailed commentary on all of the criteria that is actually outlined in the NT to be saved, rather than what is simply taught to you in church, you can visit my website:
http://shemaantimissionary.tripod.com/id12.html

You are such a party-pooper!

It is so much better to be saved by just saying how much you love Jesus, than to actually live a righteous life.

It's also much more fun to pretend you're engaged in an eternal war with scary demons than to actually do boring old good works.

I think being possessed would be far more interesting then being forced to endure life as a Puritan

I don't know... Believe it or not, Puritans thought that the two greatest forms of entertainment was sex and alchohol.

puritans should be imprisoned in S&M clubs called HELL or somethin--anyone that fetishes suffering to that extent is a repressed freak:p
I think the original puritans run those clubs nowadays. You should have seen this documentary. Heady stuff.

I don't think they "dismiss" it as an illness so much as "analyse and diagnose" it as such.
but alot of doctors let their egos get in the way and cant admit to being wrong or not knowing something--they also have a very unethical and disgusting habit of daring to tell people how long they have to live which I think is the worst form of malpractice

There are many demons running amok in the world, doing their best to cause chaos and ruin.
It's just that demons aren't exactly what people think.

In our primative times, when humanity didn't know anything, we were really superstitious and we thought silly things. For example, if a person fell ill we would often attribute their illness to a demons (invisible, malicious entities) possessing the person (entering into their body, and damaging physical and mental function).

Now, of course, we know better. We know that illness is caused by a virus or bacteria (invisible, malicious entities) infecting the person (entering into their body, and damaging physical and mental function).

What exactly is the difference between these two views? Not much.

Is there much difference between battling drug addiction and trying to exorcise a demon who has infected you and who makes you do things?
Not much.

Are there actual intelligent magical creatures behind these sorts of things, trying to tempt and/or destroy us by exploiting our physical and mental weaknesses?
Maybe.
It kind of nets out the same either way; you might as well assume that they are creatures that are deliberately and actively trying to destroy you, because whether or not it's deliberate, it can be just as deadly.

How to fight them?
Use logic and common sense. If a demon manifests as a physical or mental illness, then it can be exorcized with drugs, therapy, and/or surgery.
If it manifests as an addiction, then it can be battled through conventional medical treatment, willpower, and religious faith.
If it manifests as a fire-breathing, scaly creature with horns and goat legs, then I'd suggest holy water, silver bullets, crosses (or other religious symbols), and possibly high explosives.
(Or possibly just medication)

Your analogy is partially correct. The problem is that a lot of people today still refuse to accept personal responsibility for their "demons". There are a lot of crackpots, some religious and some not, who insist on wishing their troubles away instead of putting effort and willpower into it. The peril of religion that promotes an omnipotent force is that it sponsors a strange brand of complacency.

This is a prime example of Western pop-culture Christianity. The Christian scriptures, the NT, does not teach that a profession of faith and belief alone will save you. Nor did early Christians believe this. The Catholics didn't believe it, and even the Protestant reformers didn't believe it. This is a relatively new development (last century and a half).

Jesus stated that you must obey the commandments to be saved, and that professing faith was not enough (Matt 7:21-23, Matt 19:16-17).

Paul stated that you can believe in vain, if you don't adhere to the exact gospel that he taught (1 Corinthians 15:1)

The epistle 1 John 3:6 states that you aren't truly saved unless you stop sinning. Early Christians agreed with this, such as Irenaeus and Tertullian.

Both baptism and communion/eucharist are stated as necessary for salvation in the NT (John 6:53, John 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21). Once again, these two sacraments were stated as necessary for salvation by early Chrstians as well. The Catholic church kept these, and even the Protestant reformers like Martin Luther agreed that you had to keep these two sacraments to be saved.

If you want a more detailed commentary on all of the criteria that is actually outlined in the NT to be saved, rather than what is simply taught to you in church, you can visit my website:
http://shemaantimissionary.tripod.com/id12.html
Look, forget everything that whoever this is taught you. No one can be sinless, but through faith in Jesus Christ we are purified and in this purification we are saved. I am a Christians, despite what you say. I walk with God and I talk him. I know these things to be true. Only God can judge the heart. If our is true, then our sins are forgiven and we are made pure.

It is through faith that you have been saved. Through grace and is not of ourselves, it is a gift of God.

Neither baptism nor communion are nessarcy, though I have been baptised and do partake in communion, but these came after my faith. It was my true faith in Jesus Christ that saved me, not these things. I do them to profess my faith and not to earn salvation. Faith is what saves you, not works.

I wonder if he has some doubles. Maybe I could trade with him.
he'll cheat you

I'm sorry, the Bible doesn't say this. You're just making excuses now. The Bible states that those who have faith not only can, but WILL do miracles that are greater than those of Jesus. (Mark 16:17-18, Matt 21:22, etc) In fact, if you believe that Jesus is God, since Jesus said that everyone who has faith will do miracles, then it is obviously God's will that you do a miracle (assuming you really have faith).

So if you really have faith, why aren't you regularly doing miracles as Jesus stated all of the faithful would do?

.. maybe because they didn't know it was God's will... and feared that they were undoing and doing things they shouldn't...
But that's not right. If God gives you a gift to use, then why should one doubt it?
Because mortals are fools... That's my answer.

but alot of doctors let their egos get in the way and cant admit to being wrong or not knowing something--they also have a very unethical and disgusting habit of daring to tell people how long they have to live which I think is the worst form of malpractice

How is it unethical to tell them their life expectency based on previous case studies? If people don't like it, they go for second opinions, anyway. Besides, being a "bad" doctor always leads to a lack of patients.

After Jesus causes the withering of a fig tree he says,
Matthew 21:21 "Verily I say unto you, if ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive."
He said you can, not you will.

Oh, so you're a unitarian then (assuming you're a Christian at all). If I were a Christian, I'd be a unitarian.


(Fave quote from a British Unitarian minister talking about another Unitarian who was accused of denying the divinity of Christ: "Deny the divinity of Christ? I've never denied the divinity of any man!" :) )
thats a true quote--but (like God) I dont follow any religion

he'll cheat you

I've cheated death before. I'd imagine I could out-fiddle a creepy red guy with goat legs.

? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be.


You either need to grow up or get your head examined.

(By the way the Tooth Fairy and unicorns don't exist, also Mother Nature, not a person).
What?!!? They don't exist? sniff...snif...uh...ulp....(bursts out crying).
You have totally ruined my day, you bad bad person.

Ok, smartypants...If the tooth fairy doesn't exist, who left the money under my pillow and took my tooth, then? huh? Answer that one.





Well, even if she doesn't exist, at least I know the Easter Bunny will be bringing me lots of lovely eggs next week to celebrate his birthday.

Wouldn't a God complex mean they wouldn't accept something to be unknown? I thought Keyi said they would view it as a new condition.

Also, Keyi: are you more worried about what possessed people are doing to others, or what the demons are doing to them?
right the doctors will just invent a new condition in order to spare their egoes of not knowing

As a person with a disability, I must object to that. Most aren't? No, Miss. None of us are. And I'm not even sure I understand your comment about "wasn't a natural handicapped". Could you clarify that, please?
People without disablity are possessed to. What I mean was if the demon was causing some one to do things, the person would be pronounced insane or mentally disabled.

He said you can, not you will.

True. I wasn't arguing for the point that people with true faith WILL do miracles. But you CAN! You CAN do miracles... and THAT is quite the amazing revelation in and of itself, I think. :)

Better musical selection, anyway.
:D

Satan is a chump.
hes also a stalker

Look, forget everything that whoever this is taught you. No one can be sinless, but through faith in Jesus Christ we are purified and in this purification we are saved. I am a Christians, despite what you say. I walk with God and I talk him. I know these things to be true. Only God can judge the heart. If our is true, then our sins are forgiven and we are made pure.

It is through faith that you have been saved. Through grace and is not of ourselves, it is a gift of God.

Neither baptism nor communion are nessarcy, though I have been baptised and do partake in communion, but these came after my faith. It was my true faith in Jesus Christ that saved me, not these things. I do them to profess The Bible does list quite a few criteria necessary for salvation.my faith and not to earn salvation. Faith is what saves you, not works.

The Bible states that no one is sinless. It does NOT state that no one can stop sinning. That is where you, and the pop-culture "belief alone" Christianity of the last 150 years, made the mistake.

The Bible states that those who are saved stop sinning. The early Christians confirmed this as well, like I listed in the previous post and on the link to my website I gave you. It was a common belief that those who were truly saved repented, and those who truly repented stopped sinning. This is not the same as being sinless, because you would have sinned in the past.

Your mistake is to confuse "stop sinning" with "being sinless." The fact is, according to scripture and the beliefs of the persons who suppossedly knew the apostles, those who are truly saved, and truly know Jesus, stop sinning.

The term "works" in Scripture does not refer to keeping sacraments, either. It was a purjorative term that was a reference to keeping the Jewish Law. But like I listed, from scriputre, the Bible states that both baptism and communion are necessary for salvation, among other things. Only a modern interpretation (like I said, the pop-culture christianity of the last 150 years) confuses the necessary sacraments for salvation listed in scripture with "works."

The Bible lists quite a few criteria necessary for salvation. It also states "faith without works is dead." According to Scripture, part of faith IS works. You simply can't have the former without the latter. So unless you have the works, you have no faith, and thus aren't saved.

The Bible never says, not once, that belief in Jesus all by itself is what saves you.

I think the original puritans run those clubs nowadays. You should have seen this documentary. Heady stuff.
what documentary

For the longest of times people have reported seeing many things
Mainly when whacked out of their skulls on LSD, but don't let that stop your rant.
It is possible that there may be many things that mankind does not yet understand.
Like not understanding how anyone can still believe in little pixies and fairies and such like.
Desciptions:
a. Demononic angel- A demon might ask for someone to kill or to do something against thier fellow man, like killing someone good.
b. Good angels- An angel might ask you to do something that would help mankind, like killing someone bad.
c. Aliens-An alien might ask why is man destroying the planet--and might tell you to kill all those that are doing so.
d. Psychosis- An imbalance in the brain may not necessarily ask you to kill.
You forgot the this one:
Demoronic angel - A demon that goes round telling gullible and simple-minded people it exists.

The Bible states that no one is sinless. It does NOT state that no one can stop sinning. That is where you, and the pop-culture "belief alone" Christianity of the last 150 years, made the mistake.

The Bible states that those who are saved stop sinning. The early Christians confirmed this as well, like I listed in the previous post and on the link to my website I gave you. It was a common belief that those who were truly saved repented, and those who truly repented stopped sinning. This is not the same as being sinless, because you would have sinned in the past.

Your mistake is to confuse "stop sinning" with "being sinless." The fact is, according to scripture and the beliefs of the persons who suppossedly knew the apostles, those who are truly saved, and truly know Jesus, stop sinning.

The term "works" in Scripture does not refer to keeping sacraments, either. It was a purjorative term that was a reference to keeping the Jewish Law. But like I listed, from scriputre, the Bible states that both baptism and communion are necessary for salvation, among other things. Only a modern interpretation (like I said, the pop-culture christianity of the last 150 years) confuses the necessary sacraments for salvation listed in scripture with "works."

The Bible lists quite a few criteria necessary for salvation. It also states "faith without works is dead." According to Scripture, part of faith IS works. You simply can't have the former without the latter. So unless you have the works, you have no faith, and thus aren't saved.

The Bible never says, not once, that belief in Jesus all by itself is what saves you.
Are you sinless? I mean, do you sin?

He said you can, not you will.

Uh no, it says "whatever you ask for believing in prayer, you shall receive."

Shall is a synonym with will. They mean the same thing, the former is simply an archaic term. "Can" is not a synonym here, and it isn't mentioned anywhere.

Other translations translate it as "you will receive." None of them translate it as "you can receive" or "you might receive" etc.

How is it unethical to tell them their life expectency based on previous case studies? If people don't like it, they go for second opinions, anyway. Besides, being a "bad" doctor always leads to a lack of patients.
because doctors dont factor in someones will to live which can cause them to linger on for a miraculous amount of time --but when a doctor presumes to "predict" a persons date with death than thats an act of pshyic murder and that doctor should lose his license at the very least

People without disablity are possessed to. What I mean was if the demon was causing some one to do things, the person would be pronounced insane or mentally disabled.


You didn't specify mentally disabled. I thought you were including the physically hadicapped as well. Nor do I believe that Down's Syndrome is caused by possession. Ever. The mentally ill, furthermore, are just that -- ill. To suggest otherwise is to live in the Dark Ages. And please don't dismiss my lack of agreeing with you to mean that I don't believe in God. I do. I am Christian, although not an evangelical christian.

I've cheated death before. I'd imagine I could out-fiddle a creepy red guy with goat legs.
hes over a billion years old--he knows every trick in the book--plus he can kick your ass

Are you sinless? I mean, do you sin?

I sin at least twice a day, whether I need it or not.

I want to fight all evil, but right now I am focusing on demonic possession. I am not saying that all handicapped are possessed, most probably aren't what I am saying is that there surely are some who are and doctors would have seen that it wasn't a natural handicapped after their testing, but they still would dismiss as some sort of new medical condition.
Okay, but I'm not buying into this idea that it is more important for you at this moment to be driving the devil out of some poor developmentally or physically challenged person who is just trying to get by in the world than it is to act/speak out against abusers, killers, exploiters of the poor, the weak, children, etc. I'm sorry but I'm skeptical of anything that suggests it's more important to second-guess doctors than it is to try to defeat the evil that feeds off human suffering by working against poverty or illiteracy or political corruption.

But hey, I'm just some godless heathen who isn't right with Christ and who is burdened by this notion that the quality of my soul is expressed by how I treat others. I'm so out of touch, that if I were confronted by an actual demon, I'd probably try to reason him out of his evil ways than just start exorcising him, just because I think it would be unjust to try to destroy him without a fair hearing.

Also, you still haven't told us what kind of action you are expecting to be called to. If you have the idea that there is a battle going on, you must have some kind of idea what action you will have to take to fight in it. Are you talking about prayers, about missionary work, about good works and charity, about magic rituals like exorcisms, all of these, or what?

Faith is what saves you, not works.
"Faith without works is dead." James 2:20.

It is so much better to be saved by just saying how much you love Jesus, than to actually live a righteous life.

It's also much more fun to pretend you're engaged in an eternal war with scary demons than to actually do boring old good works.
Sad but true, which is why we end up seeing people profess the Christian faith while they cheat on their spouses, commit larceny, fraud and all manner of other misdeeds.

Hence my advice to Keyi to live well and encourage others to do likewise.

Are you sinless? I mean, do you sin?

Sure I sin. That doesn't change what the Bible says though. I could be a wicked, vile sinner. The Bible still says what it says in 1 John 3:6. And it was still interpeted by the earliest (and thus most likely the most accurate interpretations) Christians as I stated.

Unless you've stopped sinning, you never knew Jesus. Unless you knew Jesus, you were never saved. Therefore, if you havn't stopped sinning, you were never saved.

My sinfulness doesn't change the fact that you aren't saved, according to the NT.

Sure I sin. That doesn't change what the Bible says though. I could be a wicked, vile sinner. The Bible still says what it says in 1 John 3:6. And it was still interpeted by the earliest (and thus most likely the most accurate interpretations) Christians as I stated.

Unless you've stopped sinning, you never knew Jesus. Unless you knew Jesus, you were never saved. Therefore, if you havn't stopped sinning, you were never saved.

My sinfulness doesn't change the fact that you aren't saved, according to the NT.
So, you sin. According to what you say, you do not know Jesus and thus you will not be heaven, but you will be in hell.

Now answer this, do you know any one who doesn't sin?

because doctors dont factor in someones will to live which can cause them to linger on for a miraculous amount of time --but when a doctor presumes to "predict" a persons date with death than thats an act of pshyic murder and that doctor should lose his license at the very least

Psychic murder? That's funny. The reason they tell them is usually because they want to know, and usually because it's often helpful to be able to guage how much time you have left to finish up your affairs before you buck the kicket. If my life expectancy was three months, I'd prefer to know so that I could have a very productive three months.

So, you sin. According to what you say, you do not know Jesus and thus you will not be heaven, but you will be in hell.

Now answer this, do you know any one who doesn't sin?

Maybe... care to list off the sins in any particular order? I'll count.

hes over a billion years old--he knows every trick in the book--plus he can kick your ass

He got beat when he went down to Georgia. Twice. By a kid with a fiddle! If Satan is reading this, gues what, Horn-Boy, you SUCK.

Maybe... care to list off the sins in any particular order? I'll count.
I need say only one thing. Sin is anything that is unpure. Jesus himself said that even to hate is a sin. It is about the motive of your heart.

I'm sorry, I feel like a bystander watching a great debate, and not being overly useful... but this is of so much personal interest it's incredible. I know I should be sleeping, but I'm enjoying all of this far too much.

Psychic murder? That's funny. The reason they tell them is usually because they want to know, and usually because it's often helpful to be able to guage how much time you have left to finish up your affairs before you buck the kicket. If my life expectancy was three months, I'd prefer to know so that I could have a very productive three months.
YOU decide when you die--dont EVER give that power to some bastard doctor with a God complex

James 4: 7 "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

Here's the thing: demons have the power to deceive. They are masters of illusion. It is debatable whether they have any power over the elements, but they can only control a person if that person lets them. You will always have your free will. There is no reason to fear a demon.
As far as how to proactively fight demons: live your life in accordance with God's teachings. Then help others to know God. Cultivate the positive in yourself and in others... These are the best ways to frustrate Satan's designs.
Also, don't hang around a forum with heathens. jk, guys ;)

So, you sin. According to what you say, you do not know Jesus and thus you will not be heaven, but you will be in hell.

Now answer this, do you know any one who doesn't sin?

I think Jewish tzaddikim are traditionally viewed as men who no longer sin. Lots of people like this exist. Most aren't people who profess to be Christians. So although I know of men who no longer sin, I don't know anyone personally.

And no, not according to what I say. According to what 1 John 3:6 states and the early Christian populace. This isn't something I've arbitrarily made up. This is something directly from the Bible and interpreted within its proper cultural and historical context (i.e. that of early Christianity).

Now, since you're the believer in this nonsense, and not me, perhaps you should reckon with what your NT says. I would suggest going back and reading it. Study early Christian history so that you are able to interpret it within its proper contexts. Perhaps work on the language and terms a little bit. Its obvious you aren't familiar with a lot of this material. If I were in your position and someone presented this new information to me, I would go back and evaluate it.

I'm sorry, I feel like a bystander watching a great debate, and not being overly useful... but this is of so much personal interest it's incredible. I know I should be sleeping, but I'm enjoying all of this far too much.

Well, keep the flame lit for me. I'm going to read a book that involves sorcery and demons and sacrifices and other fun things. Ah, the Malloreon. I may like you yet more than the Belgariad.

I need say only one thing. Sin is anything that is unpure. Jesus himself said that even to hate is a sin. It is about the motive of your heart.

Well, I certainly don't hate anyone. People are always quick to use that word... I may not agree with someone, and I may debate a point fiercely, but to hate someone...
I mean... sometimes I say I hate George W. Bush... but I don't really HATE him. I just disagree with him on a lot of things, and wish he'd be more respectful.
But hate is pointless. It withers your soul, and causes you to be bitter. It only hurts the one who hates.

He got beat when he went down to Georgia. Twice. By a kid with a fiddle! If Satan is reading this, gues what, Horn-Boy, you SUCK.
dont say that he could be reading this

Sure I sin. That doesn't change what the Bible says though. I could be a wicked, vile sinner. The Bible still says what it says in 1 John 3:6. And it was still interpeted by the earliest (and thus most likely the most accurate interpretations) Christians as I stated.

Unless you've stopped sinning, you never knew Jesus. Unless you knew Jesus, you were never saved. Therefore, if you havn't stopped sinning, you were never saved.

My sinfulness doesn't change the fact that you aren't saved, according to the NT.

What is a "sin"?

but alot of doctors let their egos get in the way and cant admit to being wrong or not knowing something--they also have a very unethical and disgusting habit of daring to tell people how long they have to live which I think is the worst form of malpractice
I don't know about that. I took the Harvard Math Department's Death Quiz and according to that, I'm going to die at about age 86.5 of cancer, which I think is kind of a cop-out cause of death because I don't currently suffer from any of the conditions listed by insurance actuaries for assessing risk and I don't sky dive. I was also a bit discouraged by my projected age limit -- I'm shooting for 105. But at least with this info, I can schedule my planned activities.

My point is, I think it's very convenient to know how long you've got to live.

YOU decide when you die--dont EVER give that power to some bastard doctor with a God complex

So when a man is hit by a bus and his ribcage shatters and pierces every organ and leaving him looking like a smear of barbecue sauce on the pavement, does choice have anything to do with how dead he is?

Doctors don't commonly have god complexes, short of the ones who turn up in James Bond flicks or monster movies. And those ones are usually only honorary doctorates. it's not a matter of power.

dont say that he could be reading this

I certainly hope so. If he stops by my house I'll kick his ass at air hockey and laugh him out of my yard.

I need say only one thing. Sin is anything that is unpure. Jesus himself said that even to hate is a sin. It is about the motive of your heart.

Once again, according to Scripture, you're wrong. The word for sin is derived from one that had to do with hunting and shooting an arrow, aveira. It literally means to miss the mark. The Bible defines this missing the mark as a violation of one of God's laws. Not a vague interpretation of something impure.

And no, not only did Jesus say that even to hate was to sin. That was one of the 613 mitzvot (commandments) that God gave to Moses in Mt. Sinai. I know Christians don't usually read that thick part of their Bible called the "Old Testament", but its in there. Jesus taught very little that was new or original about sin.

Specifically, the Bible lists three types of sin. Pesha, avon, and chet. These are intentional sins, sins of passion, and unintentional sins respectively. So you can do something with good or pure intentions, but if it violates one of God's laws, then it is still sin.

Impure:sin is not an analogy that works all of the time, although most impure things are sinful.

I don't know about that. I took the Harvard Math Department's Death Quiz and according to that, I'm going to die at about age 86.5 of cancer, which I think is kind of a cop-out cause of death because I don't currently suffer from any of the conditions listed by insurance actuaries for assessing risk and I don't sky dive. I was also a bit discouraged by my projected age limit -- I'm shooting for 105. But at least with this info, I can schedule my planned activities.

My point is, I think it's very convenient to know how long you've got to live.
it may be conveinient to know when your gonna die but the choice is OURS when that time is and no one else has the right to dare tell us when they think it is--we heal ourselves and we release ourselves--the doctors just try to steal the credit for it and loot from us along the way

I need say only one thing. Sin is anything that is unpure. Jesus himself said that even to hate is a sin. It is about the motive of your heart.

I think it takes more than motive, you also have to account for the results of your actions. The road to Hell is often paved with good intentions.

what documentary
I have to look it up. Too lazy at the moment (sleep time approaches). It was on the History Channel this past Saturday AM. I'll see if it's still in their schedule listing and get back to you.

what a werid thing to say:

If you stay faithful to God and know that you are fine with the world... whatever you believe about "demons" in the world, or your life...will fade. Also, Don't attack others about being god-less or having no faith if you don't know the person, even everybody has a faith. That is something I try to do, and we should try it. THat is have faith.

I see a more scientific God. Creater of the everything we know and don't know, with in humanity and the outside the "natural" world.

If these demons aren't tangible then they aren't there. That's all we're saying, I guess/ I didn't read them all/...

So when a man is hit by a bus and his ribcage shatters and pierces every organ and leaving him looking like a smear of barbecue sauce on the pavement, does choice have anything to do with how dead he is?

Doctors don't commonly have god complexes, short of the ones who turn up in James Bond flicks or monster movies. And those ones are usually only honorary doctorates. it's not a matter of power.
if someone was hit by a bus they would prolly choose death

I think it takes more than motive, you also have to account for the results of your actions. The road to Hell is often paved with good intentions.

Yup, absolutely.

In a previous post you asked me what sin was, while I was actually defining it in response to someone else's post. In any case, it should be back up there someplace if you want to scroll up and look.

And no, not only did Jesus say that even to hate was to sin. That was one of the 613 mitzvot (commandments) that God gave to Moses in Mt. Sinai. I know Christians don't usually read that thick part of their Bible called the "Old Testament", but its in there. Jesus taught very little that was new or original about sin.

613!?
Wow.
That's a lot of rules to follow... I wonder how anyone could live without sin... surely the 10 listed are the most important ones?

I think Jewish tzaddikim are traditionally viewed as men who no longer sin. Lots of people like this exist. Most aren't people who profess to be Christians. So although I know of men who no longer sin, I don't know anyone personally.

And no, not according to what I say. According to what 1 John 3:6 states and the early Christian populace. This isn't something I've arbitrarily made up. This is something directly from the Bible and interpreted within its proper cultural and historical context (i.e. that of early Christianity).

Now, since you're the believer in this nonsense, and not me, perhaps you should reckon with what your NT says. I would suggest going back and reading it. Study early Christian history so that you are able to interpret it within its proper contexts. Perhaps work on the language and terms a little bit. Its obvious you aren't familiar with a lot of this material. If I were in your position and someone presented this new information to me, I would go back and evaluate it.
I can guarentee you that they sinned. If they ever had an unpure thought or motive, then they sinned (I get this from when Jesus that hate and lust were sins).

So if no one can possibly live a sinless life, then we are all going to hell. That would mean that Jesus's sacrifice was pointless and that would make God imperfect. I know that God is perfect, and that Jesus sacrifce was perfect. This means that faith is enough because true faith in Jesus is what makes you pure and "sinless" before God, if being sinless was enough there would have been no point to Jesus's sacrifice. If any unpurity is sinful, then Jesus making us pure makes us "sinless". Thus anyone who believes can be saved.

It is not for you to judge wether I am saved or not, or wether I understand the Bible or not. Stop trying to make me doubt my faith. That would make me vunerable to the attacks of Satan. I know I am saved and I have not doubted it, ever. My salvation does not depend on me, just as God's covenant with Abraham did not depend on Abraham (only God passed through the halves of the animals, he knew that Abraham would not completely fulfill his end of the deal). Be freed in the name of Jesus Christ, my Lord in Savior. Stop doing the work of Satan. In the name Jesus the Christ I command you, be gone.

if someone was hit by a bus they would prolly choose death

This whole line of thought is ridiculous. People don't just decide to die when they're in perfect health otherwise. Some ninety year-old bedridden invalid might ask to be taken off the respirator or stop taking their meds. THAT could be seen as choosing to die. Accidental death is, by definition, NOT a choice.

I certainly hope so. If he stops by my house I'll kick his ass at air hockey and laugh him out of my yard.
he'll use magic and youll lose-I told you he cheats and you dont wann laugh at him cause he'll morph into a black cloud then follow you around and when your asleep he'll try to enter you body thru your mouth and posse you

I need say only one thing. Sin is anything that is unpure. Jesus himself said that even to hate is a sin. It is about the motive of your heart.
Define "unpure" and "pure," please. Do you consider illness to be "unpure" and thus a sin? Do you consider misfortune to be "unpure" and thus a sin?

If so, I guess you are a puritan, after all.



(PS: FYI, the word is spelled "impure.")

Yup, absolutely.

In a previous post you asked me what sin was, while I was actually defining it in response to someone else's post. In any case, it should be back up there someplace if you want to scroll up and look.

I saw it, and it was a good post. Informative and interesting.

I personally think that the definition of Sin is dumbed down in the Bible, for the general audience's consumption.

If you look at all of the things that are considered to be sinful, there is a common thread. They all cause harm, or have an extremely strong potential to cause harm.
That's why I don't buy that there is anybody truly without sin, because the only way to stop causing harm is to die.
The essense of Christianity is, IMHO, "We are all sinnners. Repent and be forgiven". This roughly translates as, "No matter how hard you try, you're going to screw up and hurt somebody, if only yourself. The goal is not to avoid causing ANY harm, but to minimize the harm that you cause in your life, to recognize it, and to always strive to do better and not to repeat mistakes."

I have to look it up. Too lazy at the moment (sleep time approaches). It was on the History Channel this past Saturday AM. I'll see if it's still in their schedule listing and get back to you.
thanks Muravyets--your an institution here:cool:

It is not for you to judge wether I am saved or not, or wether I understand the Bible or not. Stop trying to make me doubt my faith. That would make me vunerable to the attacks of Satan. I know I am saved and I have not doubted it, ever. My salvation does not depend on me, just as God's covenant with Abraham did not depend on Abraham (only God passed through the halves of the animals, he knew that Abraham would not completely fulfill his end of the deal). Be freed in the name of Jesus Christ, my Lord in Savior. Stop doing the work of Satan. In the name Jesus the Christ I command you, be gone.

Sometimes that doubt can be a strength, in the end.
I had serious, serious doubts about God when I hit my teen years. It forced me to really evaluate religion, and what it meant to me. I had a couple atheist friends who constantly talked to me about the Bible, and about their beliefs (or lack thereof) in God.
But through that darkness, and that loneliness in my life, I finally found God. Don't take rational thought and doubt as weakness. It can save you from being a blind follower.

This whole line of thought is ridiculous. People don't just decide to die when they're in perfect health otherwise. Some ninety year-old bedridden invalid might ask to be taken off the respirator or stop taking their meds. THAT could be seen as choosing to die. Accidental death is, by definition, NOT a choice.
no I meant after they were hit by the bus

Define "unpure" and "pure," please. Do you consider illness to be "unpure" and thus a sin? Do you consider misfortune to be "unpure" and thus a sin?

If so, I guess you are a puritan, after all.



(PS: FYI, the word is spelled "impure.")
Thank you, I knew that spelling thing, just it's late.

I am not a puritan. I am a Calvinist to a point, I agree with most of TULIP. Illness is physically impure, but I am referring to spiritually, for it is our soul and not our body that will enter into heaven.

he'll use magic and youll lose-I told you he cheats and you dont wann laugh at him cause he'll morph into a black cloud then follow you around and when your asleep he'll try to enter you body thru your mouth and posse you

Good, maybe the Horned One will help me get laid.

Sometimes that doubt can be a strength, in the end.
I had serious, serious doubts about God when I hit my teen years. It forced me to really evaluate religion, and what it meant to me. I had a couple atheist friends who constantly talked to me about the Bible, and about their beliefs (or lack thereof) in God.
But through that darkness, and that loneliness in my life, I finally found God. Don't take rational thought and doubt as weakness. It can save you from being a blind follower.

An unquestioned faith is often not worth having, because you just end up believing in whatever people tell you instead of thinking for yourself.

Sometimes that doubt can be a strength, in the end.
I had serious, serious doubts about God when I hit my teen years. It forced me to really evaluate religion, and what it meant to me. I had a couple atheist friends who constantly talked to me about the Bible, and about their beliefs (or lack thereof) in God.
But through that darkness, and that loneliness in my life, I finally found God. Don't take rational thought and doubt as weakness. It can save you from being a blind follower.
It can. My faith has been tested and I have been forced to come to understandings and question it, but my questioning was not doubt, but a quest for understanding.

I am not a puritan. I am a Calvinist to a point, I agree with most of TULIP.

Christianity isn't a pick-and-mix, you know.

I am worried about others, about those who are not protected.

Don't worry about me I'm currently standing in a circle of salt and goat's blood so I'm fine. Seriously though you are crazy as a shithouse rat. There is no such thing as demons, why would there be?

Anticipating your answer: I know the "bible" says there are but I have several books on pychology that assure me they aren't so there we both have equal evidence...now look at the problem logically, why would your omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god need demons?

Thank you, I knew that spelling thing, just it's late.

I am not a puritan. I am a Calvinist to a point, I agree with most of TULIP. Illness is physically impure, but I am referring to spiritually, for it is our soul and not our body that will enter into heaven.

The mind, body, and spirit are (in many ways) one.
Like the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Physical illness can affect your brain functions, which can affect your mind, which can affect your spirit.
The mind can make choices which affect both the body and the spirit.
Spiritual illnesses can affect both the mind and the body.
They're all connected.

thanks Muravyets--your an institution here:cool:
WHAT!!!??? NOOOOO!!!! :eek: *immediately quits forum and takes up drinking in the daytime*

Keyi, you have yet to respond to my last post.

Good, maybe the Horned One will help me get laid.

I'm sure he will, if you turn your back and drop your pants for a few minutes.

I can guarentee you that they sinned. If they ever had an unpure thought or motive, then they sinned (I get this from when Jesus that hate and lust were sins).

Okay, once again, you didn't ask me if I knew anyone who never sinned (past tense). You asked me if I know of people who don't sin (present tense). I don't know why you think you can guarantee me that there are people who don't sin currently. Early Christians believed they held to this standard. The author of 1 John obviously thought it was a reasonable goal too.

Furthermore, you're wrong to assume that an "impure thought or motive" is equivalent to hate or lust. Jesus commanded nothing new or original when he said that hate and lust were sins. These things were already part of the 613 laws that are outlined in the Torah, the "Old Testament." Nowhere in the Bible, OT or NT, does it say that "impure thoughts or motives" are sins.

So if no one can possibly live a sinless life, then we are all going to hell.

The Bible doesn't say you have to live a sinless life from start to finish. It says those that have truly accepted Jesus stop sinning. I don't know why this is such a hard concept for you to grasp.

It is not for you to judge wether I am saved or not, or wether I understand the Bible or not. Stop trying to make me doubt my faith.

I'm not the one judging you. Like I said, this isn't me making up some arbitrary rule or interpretation. I gave you a Biblical verse that stated that those who continue to sin do not know Jesus, and never knew Jesus, and thus are not saved. I also told you that this was correct via the historical context, early Christians agreed. Never once did I myself do anything, except tell you what the Bible said. If you still sin, according to the Bible (not me), then you aren't saved.

Stop doing the work of Satan. In the name Jesus the Christ I command you, be gone.

I'm still here. Interesting how you conflict with someone who simply tells you what Scripture says and call them "Satan."

Now, the NT also says that true believers can and will drive out demons. I posted that verse in a previous post, as well. But hey, guess what, I'm still here. I guess you aren't a true believer.

Don't worry about me I'm currently standing in a circle of salt and goat's blood so I'm fine. Seriously though you are crazy as a shithouse rat. There is no such thing as demons, why would there be?

Anticipating your answer: I know the "bible" says there are but I have several books on pychology that assure me they aren't so there we both have equal evidence...now look at the problem logically, why would your omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god need demons?

What do you see as the difference between a demon and a psychological disorder?

I'm sure he will, if you turn your back and drop your pants for a few minutes.

Psh. Satan is my bitch.

I think I'll say that on my deathbed, too.

In the name Jesus the Christ I command you, be gone.

This is the internet: Jesus has no authority here.

Psh. Satan is my bitch.

I think I'll say that on my deathbed, too.

Dropping trou for Satan probably won't kill you, just leave you very sore.
Let me know how it works out for you.

Hey Keyi,
Look, I am a christian like your self, and I understand unlike some of these people that demons are a serious issue and isn't just some joke that is a mythical fake creature made up to scare christians into doing the right thing. I became really aware of demons and how the angels and spiritual battles could work over us in everyday life. I finishes a book called This Present Darkness by Frank E. Peretti and it was amazing. At first, I was really sceptical of reading 'another christian book on life' but I was surprised on how intriging this book was. It follows some lives of people in a city named Ashton and talks about this huge conspiracy that some christians (and non-believers) try to uncover and expose. While this goes on, they come into many obstacles that we wouldnt think too much of now. But in this book it will tell about the obstacles and the demons that control them like witchcraft, deception, rebellion, and others. It also tells about the numerous speciic angels that guard them and how they help for certain confrontations to happen to lead to an ultimate victory. I believe praying, talking to your youth pastor, if you are youth, and I would suggest reading this book to help you. I f you end up liking this book there is a sequel called Piercing the Darkness which ontegrates some of the same characters. Let me know how this goes for you. I would love to see if this book helps you as much as it did me. God Bless

What do you see as the difference between a demon and a psychological disorder?

That's up to your HMO.

You didn't specify mentally disabled. I thought you were including the physically hadicapped as well. Nor do I believe that Down's Syndrome is caused by possession. Ever. The mentally ill, furthermore, are just that -- ill. To suggest otherwise is to live in the Dark Ages. And please don't dismiss my lack of agreeing with you to mean that I don't believe in God. I do. I am Christian, although not an evangelical christian.
I am not going to force you to agree with me, and I am glad to hear that you are a Christian. I never said that all mental illnesses were caused by possession, I said that if one was possessed and assessed by a doctor, the doctor could very well dismiss it as a mental disablity. This would mean that I haven't been saying things in the right way. The people I referr to are not disabled, they are possessed. There is a difference. I have never in my life met a possessed person, and I have a respect for those who are handicapped. It was a theory. It was just a thought.

Okay, I just had to post what The Keyi said to me again:


In the name Jesus the Christ I command you, be gone.

ROFL

Thank you, I knew that spelling thing, just it's late.

I am not a puritan. I am a Calvinist to a point, I agree with most of TULIP. Illness is physically impure, but I am referring to spiritually, for it is our soul and not our body that will enter into heaven.
Remind me to treat you some day to one of my patented rants about why I detest Calvinists. ;)

Of course, if you were a true Calvinist, the action you'd be called upon to take against evil would consist primarily of sitting around your gated community feeling smugly superior to all those pre-damned shitheads who wouldn't be suffering if god didn't hate them. The mere fact that you are obsessing so much about dangers to other people hints that you, sir, are no Calvinist. Are you sure you're not being misled somehow?

It can. My faith has been tested and I have been forced to come to understandings and question it, but my questioning was not doubt, but a quest for understanding.

So why can't you view a lesson about the Bible in a historical context as a continuation of your quest for understanding, instead of calling people evil names?
To call someone a devil just because they have an opinion that's different than yours is... impure, I would think. Not that it's my job to judge... but I look at what is being said as something interesting and new. I don't pretend to know everything about the Bible, so if someone's studied it more than me, I like to listen to their POV. It doesn't necessarily mean I'll AGREE with everything they say. But I won't attempt to compel them to leave, either.

Hey Keyi,
Look, I am a christian like your self, and I understand unlike some of these people that demons are a serious issue and isn't just some joke that is a mythical fake creature made up to scare christians into doing the right thing. I became really aware of demons and how the angels and spiritual battles could work over us in everyday life. I finishes a book called This Present Darkness by Frank E. Peretti and it was amazing. At first, I was really sceptical of reading 'another christian book on life' but I was surprised on how intriging this book was. It follows some lives of people in a city named Ashton and talks about this huge conspiracy that some christians (and non-believers) try to uncover and expose. While this goes on, they come into many obstacles that we wouldnt think too much of now. But in this book it will tell about the obstacles and the demons that control them like witchcraft, deception, rebellion, and others. It also tells about the numerous speciic angels that guard them and how they help for certain confrontations to happen to lead to an ultimate victory. I believe praying, talking to your youth pastor, if you are youth, and I would suggest reading this book to help you. I f you end up liking this book there is a sequel called Piercing the Darkness which ontegrates some of the same characters. Let me know how this goes for you. I would love to see if this book helps you as much as it did me. God Bless
That was a great book, and I hadn't known there was a sequel. I am not youth, but I think that I may find a pastor to talk to. Thank you for your advice.

What do you see as the difference between a demon and a psychological disorder?

No the point was christians argue by claiming the bible says something as if that actually proves something. I was counter-arguing that I have a book that claims the opposite of the bible and therefore we must resort to reason. I don't believe in demons, for the same reason I don't believe in harpies, unicorns, gryphons, and giant wolves who swallow the sun and the moon.

Hell, even working within the christian framework (O3 god, all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-benevolent) demons make no sense. Outside of the christian framework its just a sure sign you are mentally incompetent.

Of course, if you were a true Calvinist, the action you'd be called upon to take against evil would consist primarily of sitting around your gated community feeling smugly superior to all those pre-damned shitheads who wouldn't be suffering if god didn't hate them. The mere fact that you are obsessing so much about dangers to other people hints that you, sir, are no Calvinist. Are you sure you're not being misled somehow?

This is exactly what I thought when I read him say that he was a Calvinist. Not to mention that Calvinists (in general) recognize the sacraments as necessary signs of salvation, whereas he adheres to the belief that professing faith in Jesus is enough to be saved.

Remind me to treat you some day to one of my patented rants about why I detest Calvinists. ;)

Of course, if you were a true Calvinist, the action you'd be called upon to take against evil would consist primarily of sitting around your gated community feeling smugly superior to all those pre-damned shitheads who wouldn't be suffering if god didn't hate them. The mere fact that you are obsessing so much about dangers to other people hints that you, sir, are no Calvinist. Are you sure you're not being misled somehow?
Well, maybe not a true Calvinist, but I do like some of their theology. So, then what do you think I am? Some misfit Christian who does not truely belong to any demonination?

I am not going to force you to agree with me, and I am glad to hear that you are a Christian. I never said that all mental illnesses were caused by possession, I said that if one was possessed and assessed by a doctor, the doctor could very well dismiss it as a mental disablity. This would mean that I haven't been saying things in the right way. The people I referr to are not disabled, they are possessed. There is a difference. I have never in my life met a possessed person, and I have a respect for those who are handicapped. It was a theory. It was just a thought.

Assuming that you're up for more ridicule from the peanut-gallery, could you elaborate more on why you believe in demons, what evidence you have that they might be hanging around, why you have a group (Counsel?), what your theories about demons are, etc.
I'd be interested in hearing it.

(Although you never did respond to my initial post)

This is the internet: Jesus has no authority here.
He has authority every where.

I am not going to force you to agree with me, and I am glad to hear that you are a Christian. I never said that all mental illnesses were caused by possession, I said that if one was possessed and assessed by a doctor, the doctor could very well dismiss it as a mental disablity. This would mean that I haven't been saying things in the right way. The people I referr to are not disabled, they are possessed. There is a difference. I have never in my life met a possessed person, and I have a respect for those who are handicapped. It was a theory. It was just a thought.
But how can you tell the difference between a real mental illness and a possession? Especially when so many people who have diseases that are putting actual holes in their brains over time experience hallucinations that they themselves think are demonic? They're not possessed; their brains are dying. If you are not a doctor (neurologist, psychiatrist, etc), how can you tell whether they are really sick or not?

Now a person who abuses their children -- that anyone can spot who bothers to look.

He has authority every where.


In the name Jesus the Christ I command you, be gone.

Why am I still here? Is it that Jesus isn't powerful enough or are you not a true believer? :D

I'm still here. Interesting how you conflict with someone who simply tells you what Scripture says and call them "Satan."

Now, the NT also says that true believers can and will drive out demons. I posted that verse in a previous post, as well. But hey, guess what, I'm still here. I guess you aren't a true believer.
You are not simply telling my scripture, I have read the Bible. You are twisting it. That is sinful. Hey, in saying what you just said, you admit that you are a demon, am I correct?

Why am I still here? Is it that Jesus isn't powerful enough or are you not a true believer? :D

Or maybe you're not a demon? :) All humans have free will, afterall.

ANYWAY, I want to thank you and Keyi for a most delightful banter. I learned some things, and more importantly absorbed some things. And seeing a question that was just asked of Keyi, I'm tactfully retreating to bed before anyone reads through my posts and asks why I believe in God... because that is a story so long and complex that I already wrote a long forum post about it at a more spiritual website, and don't feel like going through it again right now. ;)

You are not simply telling my scripture, I have read the Bible. You are twisting it. That is sinful. Hey, in saying what you just said, you admit that you are a demon, am I correct?

You don't want him to be a demon... because if he is, he just proved you don't have true faith. ;)

With that, I say goodnight. :) (honest!)

Hey, in saying what you just said, you admit that you are a demon, am I correct?

They are spiritual beings...

Ergo, Tropical Sands is a spiritual being, and not a physical entity?

But how can you tell the difference between a real mental illness and a possession? Especially when so many people who have diseases that are putting actual holes in their brains over time experience hallucinations that they themselves think are demonic? They're not possessed; their brains are dying. If you are not a doctor (neurologist, psychiatrist, etc), how can you tell whether they are really sick or not?

Now a person who abuses their children -- that anyone can spot who bothers to look.
All that I can say is that it is spiritual discernment.

Ergo, Tropical Sands is a spiritual being, and not a physical entity?

Ever notice the similarity between a mouse and a planchette?

Assuming that you're up for more ridicule from the peanut-gallery, could you elaborate more on why you believe in demons, what evidence you have that they might be hanging around, why you have a group (Counsel?), what your theories about demons are, etc.
I'd be interested in hearing it.

(Although you never did respond to my initial post)
I will go into further detail tomorrow. I'm going to hang around a while longer, but not long enough to explain everything.

I will go into further detail tomorrow. I'm going to hang around a while longer, but not long enough to explain everything.

Works for me.
I need to sleep somewhat soon.

Well, maybe not a true Calvinist, but I do like some of their theology. So, then what do you think I am? Some misfit Christian who does not truely belong to any demonination?
I'm not familiar with ALL the denominations. I think you are a fundamentalist evangelical who believes in the literal existence of supernatural beings, in prayer as a form of magic (though I guess you wouldn't call it that), and that being saved is a matter of maintaining membership in the right spiritual group by continuously professing your commitment to the group and demonstrating that commitment through actions that differentiate you from non-members. And I suspect that you are getting nervous about prepping for the "end of days," indicating that you follow an apocalyptic tradition. That could be several churches. It could also be several extremist cults and politically militant militia groups (this is why I keep asking you what kind of action you're expecting).

You are probably in the US (see your earlier reference to Colorado), so your religious group no doubt does "pick and mix" from various older churches, like most American Protestant groups do, especially the newer ones.

Am I very far off? Alternatively, I guess you could be a Catholic in Boston. They've also been getting pretty intense lately.

All that I can say is that it is spiritual discernment.
Well, sorry, but if I was in charge of a person with a mental illness, your spiritual discernment would not be of interest to me if a selection of doctors told me he had an actual illness.

But leaving that aside, what would you propose to do with a person you discerned to be possessed?

I'm not familiar with ALL the denominations. I think you are a fundamentalist evangelical who believes in the literal existence of supernatural beings, in prayer as a form of magic (though I guess you wouldn't call it that), and that being saved is a matter of maintaining membership in the right spiritual group by continuously professing your commitment to the group and demonstrating that commitment through actions that differentiate you from non-members. And I suspect that you are getting nervous about prepping for the "end of days," indicating that you follow an apocalyptic tradition. That could be several churches. It could also be several extremist cults and politically militant militia groups (this is why I keep asking you what kind of action you're expecting).

You are probably in the US (see your earlier reference to Colorado), so your religious group no doubt does "pick and mix" from various older churches, like most American Protestant groups do, especially the newer ones.

Am I very far off? Alternatively, I guess you could be a Catholic in Boston. They've also been getting pretty intense lately.
I believe in the literal existance of spiritual beings, but all who have come to believe in Jesus Christ, and I mean truely believe, are saved. I am studying to see my take on the end days, and some friends and I are actually going to start building some stuff, but I don't believe in a complete Rapture, from what I read there will only be a portion of Christians raptured, and I am not in that group. I was born in raised in America. I attended college there, but got my Masters' in Spain. I am now some where in the Middle East. I still don't know what to expect. I will know it when it comes, though I am the only one in my group who is waiting (the rest think that their purpose is to prepare for the end times and protect the innocent, but I know that there is something more to it). I am not a Chatholic. And I haven't even been to Boston.
Any new thoughts as to what I am?

You are not simply telling my scripture, I have read the Bible. You are twisting it. That is sinful. Hey, in saying what you just said, you admit that you are a demon, am I correct?

Once again, it isn't methats doing anything. This is the way early Christians viewed the exact same scripture I posted, like I cited with Iraneaus and Tertullian. You seem to be blaming me for bringing you the bad news, that according to the Bible you aren't really a true believer or saved.

If you had a time machine, and you went back in time to the first or second centuries and talked with those Christians, they would call you unsaved and a heretic. Your band if Christianity is very new, and has little in common with early Christianity.

And I think someone pointed out that yeah, you don't want me to be a demon, because it would essentially prove that you have no faith. In fact, you kinda blew it with the whole "be gone!" and trying to exorcise me deal. If you had any real faith, and you could do the miracles that Jesus said believers would do, then I would have "been gone" like you commanded me to. But, alas, I'm still here. You must either be faithless or the Bible is simply wrong.

What do you think about demons? I know that they are real, I mean I am as sure as a person can really be. The reason I am asking is lately I have had them on my mind a lot. I know that I need to fight them, but I don't know how. Also now adays you never hear about people being possessed. It may be because now we would think that they are just mentally retarded. Any thoughts?

You're not by any chance this woman here?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5464505634137914176&q=trading+spouse

You're not by any chance this woman here?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5464505634137914176&q=trading+spouse
no.

Once again, it isn't methats doing anything. This is the way early Christians viewed the exact same scripture I posted, like I cited with Iraneaus and Tertullian. You seem to be blaming me for bringing you the bad news, that according to the Bible you aren't really a true believer or saved.

If you had a time machine, and you went back in time to the first or second centuries and talked with those Christians, they would call you unsaved and a heretic. Your band if Christianity is very new, and has little in common with early Christianity.

And I think someone pointed out that yeah, you don't want me to be a demon, because it would essentially prove that you have no faith. In fact, you kinda blew it with the whole "be gone!" and trying to exorcise me deal. If you had any real faith, and you could do the miracles that Jesus said believers would do, then I would have "been gone" like you commanded me to. But, alas, I'm still here. You must either be faithless or the Bible is simply wrong.
You are no longer a Christian, I went your website where you said that you were an ex-Christian. Thus in trying in your slow, twisted way to convert me, you are doing the work of Satan, intentionally or not. I did not say that you were a demon. I asked. Big difference. Could I have my answer please?

Well, sorry, but if I was in charge of a person with a mental illness, your spiritual discernment would not be of interest to me if a selection of doctors told me he had an actual illness.

But leaving that aside, what would you propose to do with a person you discerned to be possessed?
You would of course not consult me, but as a Christian I believe that you yourself would know that there was a demon there.
I would pray. And either speak with my pastor friends or confront the demon myself.

You are no longer a Christian, I went your website where you said that you were an ex-Christian. Thus in trying in your slow, twisted way to convert me, you are doing the work of Satan, intentionally or not. I did not say that you were a demon. I asked. Big difference. Could I have my answer please?

I never tried to convert you. You seem a bit paranoid. Rather, I told you that according to the Bible and the beliefs of early Christendom you aren't actually saved. You keep trying to push this onto me, but all I've done is tell you what early Christians and the Bible actually taught.

And no, I'm not a demon. You'll have to go ghost-bust someplace else.

You would of course not consult me, but as a Christian I believe that you yourself would know that there was a demon there.
I would pray. And either speak with my pastor friends or confront the demon myself.

Oh wait, you've just contradicted yourself. As a Christian, you should know that a demon is there? Yet, you DIDN'T know if I was a demon or not. You had to try to exorcise me first, and then ask if I was a demon. Hmmm...

I believe in the literal existance of spiritual beings, but all who have come to believe in Jesus Christ, and I mean truely believe, are saved. I am studying to see my take on the end days, and some friends and I are actually going to start building some stuff, but I don't believe in a complete Rapture, from what I read there will only be a portion of Christians raptured, and I am not in that group. I was born in raised in America. I attended college there, but got my Masters' in Spain. I am now some where in the Middle East. I still don't know what to expect. I will know it when it comes, though I am the only one in my group who is waiting (the rest think that their purpose is to prepare for the end times and protect the innocent, but I know that there is something more to it). I am not a Chatholic. And I haven't even been to Boston.
Any new thoughts as to what I am?
None whatever, except a slight sense of relief that you're not in Colorado anymore. If you don't think you'll be in on the Rapture, then I presume you're not in the Mid-East hoping for a front seat at Armageddon -- or even one of those loons who'd like to help start it. That's really all I care about.

So, now I'm just asking out of curiosity what it is you think you're waiting for? Don't be such a tease. You must have some thoughts about it. Why would you even have sought advice from random strangers otherwise?

I never tried to convert you. You seem a bit paranoid. Rather, I told you that according to the Bible and the beliefs of early Christendom you aren't actually saved. You keep trying to push this onto me, but all I've done is tell you what early Christians and the Bible actually taught.

And no, I'm not a demon. You'll have to go ghost-bust someplace else.
Thank you for answering my question.

I am saved, I know it. I walk with God and I talk with him. If I was not saved this would be impossible. My faith is strong, so thank you for your wonderful arguements and your time, but I know what I believe in is the truth. Tonight, whether you meant to or not, you did do some of the will of God. He sent you to make me think through my faith. I have been wanting to have to do that all day, but no reason presented itself. I am going to read up on these verses you gave and see if they are as out of context as I anticipate.

None whatever, except a slight sense of relief that you're not in Colorado anymore. If you don't think you'll be in on the Rapture, then I presume you're not in the Mid-East hoping for a front seat at Armageddon -- or even one of those loons who'd like to help start it. That's really all I care about.

So, now I'm just asking out of curiosity what it is you think you're waiting for? Don't be such a tease. You must have some thoughts about it. Why would you even have sought advice from random strangers otherwise?
I don't want to start anything. I want to help those who need, whether it is end times or some sort of persecution. I am in the Middle East for reasons which I cannot say. Part of it is because of some deserts.

I think it is an oppertunity. I don't know to do what or anything, but when it comes I will reconize it. And, who better to get advice from then random strangers when you don't want people to know who you are exactly?

Oh wait, you've just contradicted yourself. As a Christian, you should know that a demon is there? Yet, you DIDN'T know if I was a demon or not. You had to try to exorcise me first, and then ask if I was a demon. Hmmm...
Do you think that it was an honest attempt, or sarcasism to see your response? Let's think for a moment. . .

You're not by any chance this woman here?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5464505634137914176&q=trading+spouse


No, I think the OP is a very sincere, very well-intentioned, but misguided young woman. Keyi, perhaps you should wonder about whomever it was that instilled this fear in you. Of course one should be concerned with the state of their soul, and being concerned for others is a good thing, but you seemed overly consumed with this fear. If your pastor is the one who is causing you to see "a demon behind every tree", so to speak, could you not bring your concerns to another pastor, one of your denomination (I wouldn't mean to suggest that you talk to another clergyman from a different church if that violates your beliefs, but perhaps anther pastor from within your religion?) see if he might have some guidance that perhaps you or your current pastor haven't thought of. If this fear isn't coming from your pastor, then by all means talk to him. I really feel that perhaps someone, albeit unintentionally, I'm sure, has set you in something of a wrong direction.

Peace. :)

Thank you for answering my question.

I am saved, I know it. I walk with God and I


Uh oh!!!!

Boogeymans!

Going to have to call the ghost busters after all Keyo.

No, I think the OP is a very sincere, very well-intentioned, but misguided young woman. Keyi, perhaps you should wonder about whomever it was that instilled this fear in you. Of course one should be concerned with the state of their soul, and being concerned for others is a good thing, but you seemed overly consumed with this fear. If your pastor is the one who is causing you to see "a demon behind every tree", so to speak, could you not bring your concerns to another pastor, one of your denomination (I wouldn't mean to suggest that you talk to another clergyman from a different church if that violates your beliefs, but perhaps anther pastor from within your religion?) see if he might have some guidance that perhaps you or your current pastor haven't thought of. If this fear isn't coming from your pastor, then by all means talk to him. I really feel that perhaps someone, albeit unintentionally, I'm sure, has set you in something of a wrong direction.

Peace. :)
Wrong direction? My pastor never talks about anything other than serving Jesus, it has been a year since he has even given a sermon on the Spiritual battle. This feeling is coming from God. I do like your idea about meeting with a different pastor though. I'll talk to some friends and see if I can find one.

Do you think that it was an honest attempt, or sarcasism to see your response? Let's think for a moment. . .



I think its just that to cast out the boogeymans you have to wear the Magical Jahoosifat Hat, and you forgot to wear the magical hat.