NationStates Jolt Archive

Heikoku, I Thank You, Along With Everyone Else Who HASN'T Been Beating Up On Wicca

Lacadaemon And New Granada, Along With Everyone Else Who HAS Been Beating Up On Wicca, FUCK YOU! I Studied A Lot About Wicca Last Night. Maybe You Should Too. Ok, So It Isn't Fast Growing. Oh Well. And Frankly, I Compared Real Wicca With "Charmed-Wicca" And Found Charmed Is 99.99 Percent Bullshit. Along With Buffy The Vampire Slayer. And Quite A Few Other Movies/Shows/Books. I May Not Agree With All Wiccan Beliefs, But At Least I Don't Beat Up On It And Post False Information About It Just To Beat It Up. In Fact, Wicca Is Seeming More And More Interesting To Me Every Day.

You don't beat up on others beliefs? Then what are you doing on NS? That whats done around here dontcha know? :D

[QUOTE=Ritlina]

Lacadaemon And New Granada, Along With Everyone Else Who HAS Been Beating Up On Wicca, FUCK YOU! QUOTE]


Third Wycckide Wytcche to flame in this thread.

Let the record indicate that the cup still stands on the desk, no one of this Covyne of Spellecasteres has used his Magicckye to Magycckleley knock it over.

Third Wycckide Wytcche to flame in this thread.Let the record indicate that the cup still stands on the desk, no one of this Covyne of Spellecasteres has used his Magicckye to Magycckleley knock it over.
Ok, New Granada, Please, You Say We Are Flaming? I Do Believe You Are The One Doing Most Of The Flaming. Please, I'm Sure That I And Quite A Few Others Would Be Happy If You Simply Left This Thread. Please, Just Go Away.

Ok, New Granada, Please, You Say We Are Flaming? I Do Believe You Are The One Doing Most Of The Flaming. Please, I'm Sure That I And Quite A Few Others Would Be Happy If You Simply Left This Thread. Please, Just Go Away.


It would be nice if more old people would wear "I'm older than wicca" t-shirts.

No discussion on the subject of this Magycckle Wytccherie can be complete without some feat of Magycckele Spellecaesteing.

Flaming, so you know, is making personal attacks, like "f*ck you" or the "moron" or "dumb ass" which have been flying around from Oure Deere Wycckaene Wytcchaese .

It would be nice if more old people would wear "I'm older than wicca" t-shirts.

No discussion on the subject of this Magycckle Wytccherie can be complete without some feat of Magycckele Spellecaesteing.

Flaming, so you know, is making personal attacks, like "f*ck you" or the "moron" or "dumb ass" which have been flying around from Oure Deere Wycckaene Wytcchaese .
Ugh, Can't We Like, Petition To Get This Guy Banned, Or Something?

I view religion as I do homosexuality...great if it works for you, just dont get me involved in it. Wicca makes, to me, as much sense as any other religion (Im a certified Agnostic).. One thing I really respect about Wicca is the Rede (an do as thou wilt, but harm none) which really gives it a leg up to me over Christianity or Islam (see also Danish flag burning...silly fucks)

Ugh, Can't We Like, Petition To Get This Guy Banned, Or Something?

Ritlina, he's pointing out that you're not allowed to call people names such as <<expletive deleted>>. That's pure flaming to do so.

Responding to flames with flames is also not allowed.

If you think this is a problem, you can post a report in Moderation, but considering your responses, you're just as likely to get hammered by the Mods.

Tell that to the church that only acknowledged that the Earth revolves around the Sun in the last 20 years...

And which church would that be?


Also, it would be interesting to see if you can knock the cup in front of my computer off the table. To help you I'll show where it is. clicky (http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/4415/cupontable0017xw.jpg)

(And I know you aren't online at the moment so I'll keep it here till it falls off or when I next clean my room properly, which ever comes first)

Ritlina, although I was on your side at the beginning I must say that telling everyone who disagrees with you to fuck off is slightly immature. They have their own beliefs and some will have studied Wicca in reasonable detail. I suppose a religion that contains within it magical spells for a better life is likely to be looked down upon by those who have learnt that religious beliefs have no visable effect. As for me, I'm not sure and I don't frankly care much either way. But I do think you should be a bit more mature, if you want people to be swayed from their view of Wicca as being the pastime of impressionable young girls who wear too much make-up.

Also, it would be interesting to see if you can knock the cup in front of my computer off the table. To help you I'll show where it is. clicky (http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/4415/cupontable0017xw.jpg)

(And I know you aren't online at the moment so I'll keep it here till it falls off or when I next clean my room properly, which ever comes first)

When I was investigating psionics I gave one of the members a similar challenge. It worked. Part of me cries coincidence, part of me is still in shock ;)

The final part of me is interested and has been trying somethings out, with interesting results...

Ritlina, although I was on your side at the beginning I must say that telling everyone who disagrees with you to fuck off is slightly immature. They have their own beliefs and some will have studied Wicca in reasonable detail. I suppose a religion that contains within it magical spells for a better life is likely to be looked down upon by those who have learnt that religious beliefs have no visable effect. As for me, I'm not sure and I don't frankly care much either way. But I do think you should be a bit more mature, if you want people to be swayed from their view of Wicca as being the pastime of impressionable young girls who wear too much make-up.
The Thing Is, People Flame And Attack Wicca Without Knowing The Facts. They Think That It's All About Magic And Shit Like That. If They KNEW What Wicca Really Was, Instead Of Just Watching Charmed, And Then Insulted Wicca, I Wouldn't Be As Pissed, Since They Actually Know What Wicca Is. Unfortunatently, New Granada Doesn't Know Shit.

Ugh, Can't We Like, Petition To Get This Guy Banned, Or Something?

If we banned all the obnoxious kids, we wouldn't have much of a forum left, would we?

If we banned all the obnoxious kids, we wouldn't have much of a forum left, would we?
You're not a real NS General addict unless you've been temporarily banned a few times and came back.

Alright. I've watched this thread dwindle down to nothing but flames and other odd stuff. Now let me give MY oppinion on what "Wicca" really is. If you ever thought of it as a "fad" then realize that it has been around for centuries. I know this because my fiance has been a part of the Wiccan religion for pritty much all her life (she also practices Celtic and Native American Traditional). Some of the stuff that you have stated does not even go with Wicca, and movies and groups that caractorize Wicca as a "Cult" go far beyond what it truly is.

Like any other religion, Wicca is a way for one person to get in touch with their inner self. Some stuff they do may boarder on paranormal but hey, Christianity does the same.

It would be nice if more old people would wear "I'm older than wicca" t-shirts.


Perfect Christmas for my gran I'm sure. If she's still alive by then.

You're not a real NS General addict unless you've been temporarily banned a few times and came back.
Yeah I Was Banned... Twice Was It? Once For Advertising My Friends Forums, Which Got Me Banned For Like, 3 Months, And Then Another Time For Making A Thread Which Was Just A Massive Bonfire.

When I was investigating psionics I gave one of the members a similar challenge. It worked. Part of me cries coincidence, part of me is still in shock ;)

Well unfortunately I don't know anyone interested in that stuff, so this is my my best chance to see if it works ;)

The final part of me is interested and has been trying somethings out, with interesting results...

¬_¬

Well, I Have To Go To School. Again. Keep This Thread Alive!

You're not a real NS General addict unless you've been temporarily banned a few times and came back.

Heh, you might have a point there.

Alright. I've watched this thread dwindle down to nothing but flames and other odd stuff. Now let me give MY oppinion on what "Wicca" really is. If you ever thought of it as a "fad" then realize that it has been around for centuries.

No no no. Wicca has not been around for centuries. It uses some ideas that have been around for centuries, but Wicca itself was founded in the 1940s-50s. Seriously, any biography of Gerald Gardner can tell you this.

If you ever thought of it as a "fad" then realize that it has been around for centuries.

Do you also think that Christianity has been around longer than two millennia?

Well, I Have To Go To School. Again. Keep This Thread Alive!

I aM aT worK keepinG thiS threaD alivE.

seriouslY maN talkinG iN alL firsT letteR capS iS reallY annoyinG anD I wisH yoU woulD finallY realizE iT anD stoP doinG iT.

jusT becausE yoU caN dO somethinG doesnT meaN thaT yoU shoulD.

¬_¬

I'm sorry, but I have never understood the meaning of that smiley. Can you explain :)

I'm sorry, but I have never understood the meaning of that smiley. Can you explain :)

It is meant to be shifty eyes.

An ok substitute for me, since I have no idea where to find a shifty eyed smily.

Wicca is funny, I was talking to a wiccan on msn once (I don't have a clue where she got my address). She said she could make potions and stuff, and at night she went to graveyards with friends, to get more energy. It got really weird when she said: 'Stop typing with one finger, it's really annoying' (I was typing with one finger)
So do I believe in it? dunno, maybe she just noticed I was a slow typer, mybe someone I know wanted to play a prank on me like that (I doubt that, 'cause no one spoke to me about it) It was a funny experience

No no no. Wicca has not been around for centuries. It uses some ideas that have been around for centuries, but Wicca itself was founded in the 1940s-50s. Seriously, any biography of Gerald Gardner can tell you this.

Some guys autobiography doesn't tell you when the idea of Wicca started. Before the 40's "Wicca" had a different name, Wiccan was orriginally called by a different name. You remember those people who were burned at the steak for being "Witches" in Salem? They would be considered Wiccan. My fiance knows a lot more about Wicca than you do. It is older than you or I, older than our grandparents and great grandparents. She has stated that it pre-dates Christ.

Wicca is funny, I was talking to a wiccan on msn once (I don't have a clue where she got my address). She said she could make potions and stuff, and at night she went to graveyards with friends, to get more energy. It got really weird when she said: 'Stop typing with one finger, it's really annoying' (I was typing with one finger)
So do I believe in it? dunno, maybe she just noticed I was a slow typer, mybe someone I know wanted to play a prank on me like that (I doubt that, 'cause no one spoke to me about it) It was a funny experience

Wicca isn't making potions and going to graveyards in the middle of the night. The person you talked to is a wannabe.

You remember those people who were burned at the steak for being "Witches" in Salem? They would be considered Wiccan.

Would be considered Wiccans by whom.


Not anyone with any historical basis in their view I assume.

Also, I thought the Salem witches were hanged :confused:

I'm Not Saying I Believe In Any Of The Wiccan Stuff, I'm Just Saying, It Seems To Make More Sense To Me Then Most Other Religions. And Believe Me, In The Year 2100, America Will Be Mostly Wiccan.

Yeah Sure Guy, What Ever You Say. I Like Capitalizing The First Letter Of Every Word Too, It Lends So Much Credence To What Spews Forth From My Oratory Orifice.

Forget it. I can't get anything through your thick heads.


oh...and BTW, they were burned because they used herbs and other plantlife to heal people and that was considered "Witchcraft". Wiccans use plantlife to heal people. And if you want a real world example, they used the plant Aspen to heal people. And I'm sure that you don't know what Aspen is made into now a days, do you?

Some guys autobiography doesn't tell you when the idea of Wicca started. Before the 40's "Wicca" had a different name, Wiccan was orriginally called by a different name. You remember those people who were burned at the steak for being "Witches" in Salem? They would be considered Wiccan. My fiance knows a lot more about Wicca than you do. It is older than you or I, older than our grandparents and great grandparents. She has stated that it pre-dates Christ.

I am skeptical of Gardner's claims that the New Forest witches, if they existed at all, were part of a centuries-old underground tradition. Claiming unbroken, ancient tradition is nothing new and it wasn't new even when Gardner was putting Wicca together. It's a good way of adding legitimacy to one's ideas. Certainly some of his ideas were very old, and pulled from a variety of ancient pagan sources, but we also know that he also adopted ideas from Aleister Crowley as well as from the Golden Dawn and other contemporary ceremonial magical groups.

Certainly "witchcraft" has probably been performed for as long there have been humans. Shamans, witchdoctors, medicine men, even priests. That idea is certainly very old. But Wicca itself, as Gerald Gardner formed it, is a 20th century religion.

Forget it. I can't get anything through your thick heads.

Hmm. Irony.

oh...and BTW, they were burned

Nope, they were hanged. Though one wasn't, she was crushed to death (Peine forte et dure).

because they used herbs and other plantlife to heal people

Given the huge amount of people largely randomly accused, as well as the circumstantial evidence submitted, I find this uncompelling.

Also, none of the accussed were accussed because of any suspition of "white" witchcraft.

and that was considered "Witchcraft".

And interestingly, this form of witchcraft (white) was not illegal in England at the time, I know this is irrelevent since it wasn't England. But I find it interesting.

Wiccans use plantlife to heal people.

For the sake of arguement, lets say your history is correct (it isn't though). Your logic is absurd.

You may as well claim that Wiccans existed for centuries because, "in the Dark Ages people breathed air. Wiccans also breath air."

And I'm sure that you don't know what Aspen is made into now a days, do you?

Actually, I have no idea.

But anyway, what is Aspen made into these days? I honestly no idea. Though it definately isn't Asperin, since that was found in Willow bark. (By Hippocrates incidentally, was he a Wiccan too?)

Forget it. I can't get anything through your thick heads.


oh...and BTW, they were burned because they used herbs and other plantlife to heal people and that was considered "Witchcraft". Wiccans use plantlife to heal people. And if you want a real world example, they used the plant Aspen to heal people. And I'm sure that you don't know what Aspen is made into now a days, do you?

So everyone who uses plantlife to heal someone is Wiccan? I doubt it somehow. Unless that is not what you are saying the connection is, in which what was the point of the above comment?

With regards to your statement regarding our heads, please be reasonable. All information that can be found states that Wicca was started recently, the biography being a prime example. Why should they discount that based on the testement given by your fiance, via you?

The suggestion that it predates christ does not surprise me however. A large number of elements within it are found from religious far older than two milenia. However this one gives the impression of being much younger.

And Yes, It Is Recognized As A Religion.


this all makes me think *somebody* took harry potter way too seriously lol i think the pagan beliefs are pretty interesting an really cool but i dont like this whole magic crap where your many gods will strike me down and make you a sports star while tricking a super modl into marrying you lol life isn't that easy;)

this all makes me think *somebody* took harry potter way too seriously lol i think the pagan beliefs are pretty interesting an really cool but i dont like this whole magic crap where your many gods will strike me down and make you a sports star while tricking a super modl into marrying you lol life isn't that easy;)

You do know that Wiccans don't actually believe that's how it works, do you? Anyone getting into Wicca because they read Harry Potter is likely to be disappointed.

Umm Revasser glad though I am that you crushed such narrow-minded viewpoint, could you please pay some attention to those who pointed out the inconsistances in what you have been saying?

Umm Revasser glad though I am that you crushed such narrow-minded viewpoint, could you please pay some attention to those who pointed out the inconsistances in what you have been saying?

Who did? What inconsistencies? I can't say I've noticed anyone doing that I haven't already addressed. Perhaps you'd be so kind as to refresh my memroy?

Well just above Exterme Nationalism's post there are three with direct references to your previous post, questioning matters within.

Well just above Exterme Nationalism's post there are three with direct references to your previous post, questioning matters within.
You mean, including the one he wrote...? http://www.seabluegreen.com/images/krab.gif

You mean this one?

Some guys autobiography doesn't tell you when the idea of Wicca started. Before the 40's "Wicca" had a different name, Wiccan was orriginally called by a different name. You remember those people who were burned at the steak for being "Witches" in Salem? They would be considered Wiccan. My fiance knows a lot more about Wicca than you do. It is older than you or I, older than our grandparents and great grandparents. She has stated that it pre-dates Christ.

I did address this one, as you can see just below it. But I'll go ahead and add that Gerald Gardner is not just "some guy", he is the founder of Wicca.

OK, my comments on Wicca:

I do consider it to be a fully legitimate religion / philosophy of life due to:

1) it's roots in pre-monotheistic religions based upon the worship of nature - a stance which leads to an environmentalist / "green" viewpoint, which I fully embrace

2) the depiction of SYMBOLIC deities (it's pretty hard of the majority of the contra-Wicca faction to understand that) which do personalize SCIENTIFIC phenomena occuring in the universe and in our own ecosphere (the eco-centist part of Wicca) AND aspects of human psychology and basic patterns of mind (the anthropocentrist part)

3) the Threefold Law and the Rede as key elements of Wicca as a philosophy which enables virtually all of it's followers (exceptions do prove the rule) to be very tolerant in regard to other religions / philosophies, which NONE of the monotheistic faiths can claim to be

4) most importantly: the notion that life -both human and animal- and individual freedom are sacred, leading to abhorrence of any kind of violence

and further keypoints which I will not state here because they are too numerous.

Whether "magick" does work or does not work, remains to be judged by others - I do not consider this to be of relevance. The ethics and the belief system of Wicca matter...if a follower follows those ethics AND performs religious rites ..it's his or her personal freedom to do so.

My comments on this thread:
It is quite astonishing that only the pro-Wiccan side managed to present a few coherent and reasonable arguments - the contra-Wicca side mostly consists of ignorant idiots who are neither well informed on the topic nor are willing to look beyond the symbolism of Wicca, and simply gladly use the chance to ridicule the views of a minority once again.

3) the Threefold Law and the Rede as key elements of Wicca as a philosophy which enables virtually all of it's followers (exceptions do prove the rule) to be very tolerant in regard to other religions / philosophies, which NONE of the monotheistic faiths can claim to be.

The Baha'i faith and traditional Zoroastrianism are both monotheistic and are both "very tolerant in regard to other religions". Traditional Zoroastrianism doesn't even allow converts, let alone proseletyze or claim that it's the only true religion.

The fact remains that the so-called Wiccan religion is a fairly modern fabrication cobbled together from various rustic superstitions, obsolete and long-discredited pagan beliefs and poorly remembered traditions and of interest primarily to silly little girls, wannabe druids and New Age types who resent being told what's right and what isn't, especially by dem bad ol' Christians.

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.
1. There's no such thing as magic.
2. Only proper nouns and the first word of a sentence need to be capitalized.

1. There's no such thing as magic.
2. Only proper nouns and the first word of a sentence need to be capitalized.

1. Wicca isn't just about magic unless you're a thirteen-year-old girl who doesn't know a damn thing about Wicca.
2. I'm pretty sure he does that to annoy people. Every now he'll make a post without doing that and then he'll express shock and horror that he did it. It's annoying, that's for sure.

My comments on this thread:
It is quite astonishing that only the pro-Wiccan side managed to present a few coherent and reasonable arguments - the contra-Wicca side mostly consists of ignorant idiots who are neither well informed on the topic nor are willing to look beyond the symbolism of Wicca, and simply gladly use the chance to ridicule the views of a minority once again.

Because it's so easy, is why.

The only religion I don't mock is buddhism, and that's only because they allow atheists.

Perfect Christmas for my gran I'm sure. If she's still alive by then.


Young family?

this all makes me think *somebody* took harry potter way too seriously lol i think the pagan beliefs are pretty interesting an really cool but i dont like this whole magic crap where your many gods will strike me down and make you a sports star while tricking a super modl into marrying you lol life isn't that easy;)
Ugh, Sickening. Any Ways, I Just Watched An Episode Of Charmed. Very Painful. It Sickened Me. It's No Where Near What So Called "True" Witches Ever Actually Did (True Meaning The Ones That Were Persecuted, Hanged, Drowned, Crushed, And Periodiccaly Burned)

1. There's no such thing as magic.
2. Only proper nouns and the first word of a sentence need to be capitalized.
Of Course I Don't Believe In Magic/Magick/Etc. But I Do Believe That Science Can Be Used To Explain These Things Which People Think Can Only Be Supernaturally Explained.

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.

1. wicca is not new.
2. wicca is probably one of the oldest religions out there.
3. sweeping the nation?
4. cool?
5. it's a farce. no, i'm not a xtian.

Vegetarianistica']1. wicca is not new.
2. wicca is probably one of the oldest religions out there.
3. sweeping the nation?
4. cool?
5. it's a farce. no, i'm not a xtian.
Listen People, I Now Understand It's Not New. At The Time I Started This Thread, I Thought It Was. And I'm Still Pretty Sure Soon Enough It's Followers WILL Grow.

My comments on this thread:
It is quite astonishing that only the pro-Wiccan side managed to present a few coherent and reasonable arguments - the contra-Wicca side mostly consists of ignorant idiots who are neither well informed on the topic nor are willing to look beyond the symbolism of Wicca, and simply gladly use the chance to ridicule the views of a minority once again.

Wonderfully stated on all accounts but I have to say the mischievous side of me loved this bit the most.

As for charmed, yeah there are lots of movies that just kill me. Look at the witch project movies. You think people were not looking at me like the devil after that? My favorite is practical magic. It has a lot of fantasy but also has a lot of real bits in it.

For paganism being fast spreading, I think it depends on your area. It may seem so if the area you are in is largely starting to convert. My self unless they are going to take it seriously I would rather they did not.

Do you know even pagans have an mean term (of course I think its cute) for people who claim to be pagan and are just not educating them selves about what they claim to be? The ones who think Wicca and paganism in general will help them get that cute boy in class or as even as adults make them successful. We call them FLUFFY. I don't care for there even being a term that is meant to be degrading but can understand why they would not want to be considered the same as them.

There are Meany who claim to be pagans who do not fallow the beliefs. Some even write books:mad: to my utmost grief. But those who do realise they can not just chant spells and have things magically happen. They pray to there gods to help in times of need just as Meany other religions do.
And to you who want to downtrod us for having ritual I will tell you this. Most branches of the christian church at one time did ritual as well. Some still do. Look it up. You can find bits and Pisces about it. Oh and by Cristian I mean all the branches, Baptist and Jewish too. you are all separate branches of the same tree. I find it silly that they all claim not to be.

Listen People, I Now Understand It's Not New. At The Time I Started This Thread, I Thought It Was. And I'm Still Pretty Sure Soon Enough It's Followers WILL Grow.

might want to ammend/edit your OP, then. i don't always read all the posts before i reply. wicca probably won't grow. why would it?

Wonderfully stated on all accounts but I have to say the mischievous side of me loved this bit the most.

As for charmed, yeah there are lots of movies that just kill me. Look at the witch project movies. You think people were not looking at me like the devil after that? My favorite is practical magic. It has a lot of fantasy but also has a lot of real bits in it.

For paganism being fast spreading, I think it depends on your area. It may seem so if the area you are in is largely starting to convert. My self unless they are going to take it seriously I would rather they did not.

Do you know even pagans have an mean term (of course I think its cute) for people who claim to be pagan and are just not educating them selves about what they claim to be? The ones who think Wicca and paganism in general will help them get that cute boy in class or as even as adults make them successful. We call them FLUFFY. I don't care for there even being a term that is meant to be degrading but can understand why they would not want to be considered the same as them.

There are Meany who claim to be pagans who do not fallow the beliefs. Some even write books:mad: to my utmost grief. But those who do realise they can not just chant spells and have things magically happen. They pray to there gods to help in times of need just as Meany other religions do.
And to you who want to downtrod us for having ritual I will tell you this. Most branches of the christian church at one time did ritual as well. Some still do. Look it up. You can find bits and Pisces about it. Oh and by Cristian I mean all the branches, Baptist and Jewish too. you are all separate branches of the same tree. I find it silly that they all claim not to be.
Thank You Leaf. Bout The "Christian Tree" Thing. Judaism Started. Then Judaism Formed Branches. Then Christianity Became A Big Branch From The Tree Of Judaism. Then That Branch Formed Many Branches, As The Smaller Branches Formed More Branches. Then Later, Another Big Branch Formed, Islam. Then That Began To Form More Branches, As The Christian And Main Tree Grew More Branches, And All The Branches They Grew Made More Branches. You All Stemmed From The Same Tree, Man.

Vegetarianistica']1. wicca is not new.
2. wicca is probably one of the oldest religions out there.

.


Its almost as old as the Atom Bomb.

erm It may not be takeing the nations by storm but I will say it has grown a lot in a short time. For better or worse I can not tell you. As I said we tend to get a good deal of people who are just goofing around.

The cup still stands untoppled by Magycckaele Witcchereye.

Wicca is the oldest religion out there. It's the oldest form of paganism, and it's not new. So, this new age Wicca would turn traditional Wicca over in its Christian conquered graves.

Wicca is the oldest religion out there. It's the oldest form of paganism, and it's not new. So, this new age Wicca would turn traditional Wicca over in its Christian conquered graves.


I take it you're ready to provide some old MSs to prove this?

The cup still stands untoppled by Magycckaele Witcchereye.
Granada. You Will No Longer Succeed In Making Me Angry. But I Will Still Request That You Leave This Thread. Or At Least Give Proof There's A Cup On Your Desk. Then I Will Personally Topple It Using My Electromagnetivity.

The cup still stands untoppled by Magycckaele Witcchereye.

You know I seriously think you just want to piss people off. No one is going to topple your cup. Even if we could we wouldent want to.

Bout The "Christian Tree" Thing. Judaism Started. Then Judaism Formed Branches. Then Christianity Became A Big Branch From The Tree Of Judaism. Then That Branch Formed Many Branches, As The Smaller Branches Formed More Branches. Then Later, Another Big Branch Formed, Islam. Then That Began To Form More Branches, As The Christian And Main Tree Grew More Branches, And All The Branches They Grew Made More Branches. You All Stemmed From The Same Tree, Man.

oh , good. You got what I was saying and even explained it much better.
Ok now paganism is the same way. We have meany branches all based along the same lines of beliefe.

and for those saying we are who we are to pester the cristians. ha ha, dont make your self feel so special. We could really care less.

Granada. You Will No Longer Succeed In Making Me Angry. But I Will Still Request That You Leave This Thread. Or At Least Give Proof There's A Cup On Your Desk. Then I Will Personally Topple It Using My Electromagnetivity.


My word is clearly proof enough.

It has so far weathered the Magycckle attacks of a whole Covyne of Wytcchese, led by hai "Merlin" koku.

My word is clearly proof enough.

It has so far weathered the Magycckle attacks of a whole Covyne of Wytcchese, led by hai "Merlin" koku.
Can You At Least Tell Me Your Phone Number? Then I Might Be Able To Conjure Up Enough Electromagnitivtey To Find You And Hopefully Push Your Damn Cup Off Your God Damned Table.

You know I seriously think you just want to piss people off. No one is going to topple your cup. Even if we could we wouldent want to.
.


You're very wealthy then i take it?

Can You At Least Tell Me Your Phone Number? Then I Might Be Able To Conjure Up Enough Electromagnitivtey To Find You And Hopefully Push Your Damn Cup Off Your God Damned Table.


Use your Magycckyle Poweres.

Use your Magycckyle Poweres.
I Don't Have Magical Powers. I Have Scientifical Powers. I'd Like To Know Your Phone Number So I Don't Have To Search Through The Phone Lines For You. By The Time I Found You I Would Probably Be Out Of Electromagnitivty, Therefore Making Me Rest For A Couple Of Days To Regenerate It. And By Then I Would Have Forgotten Where You Live, Then I'd Have To Search For You Again.

Oh, Did You Know That There Is A Religion Which Is Directly Branched From The "Christian Branch" Which Commits Sacrifical Rituals On Animals? Don't Know Much About Them, But I Do Know It's Called Something Like "Santa Maria". Look It Up.

You're very wealthy then i take it?

Nope just not greedy. I really dont want your money. I have what I want.

Young family?

I think all other possible candidate have died.

Ugh, Sickening. Any Ways, I Just Watched An Episode Of Charmed. Very Painful. It Sickened Me. It's No Where Near What So Called "True" Witches Ever Actually Did (True Meaning The Ones That Were Persecuted, Hanged, Drowned, Crushed, And Periodiccaly Burned)

So know you can add "History" to your list of "Things I know jack about."




Just so you know.

So know you can add "History" to your list of "Things I know jack about."




Just so you know.
Ok, So Not Many Actually Died. And More Than A Few Of Them Were Just Average Christians Who Were Being Blamed By Other Christians Who Hated Them. But Some Were Still Persecuted.

The cup still stands untoppled by Magycckaele Witcchereye.

Mine too, though I admit it has been moved. I'm up late and I needed a coffee.

And there was me thinking he would get me with the "make him clumsier than usual" thing.

Mine too, though I admit it has been moved. I'm up late and I needed a coffee.

And there was me thinking he would get me with the "make him clumsier than usual" thing.


Apparently thats beyond his Magyccaele yen.

Ok, So Not Many Actually Died. And More Than A Few Of Them Were Just Average Christians Who Were Being Blamed By Other Christians Who Hated Them. But Some Were Still Persecuted.

Heck of a thing too is it not. I thought christians were not suposed to be like that. Good thing the ones I know are not...I hope.

Ok, So Not Many Actually Died. And More Than A Few Of Them Were Just Average Christians Who Were Being Blamed By Other Christians Who Hated Them. But Some Were Still Persecuted.

They were called "witches," but they can in no way be identified as Wiccans. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

NONE of those executed in the so called "burning times" were wiccans. Or witches of any variety.

Granada. You Will No Longer Succeed In Making Me Angry. But I Will Still Request That You Leave This Thread. Or At Least Give Proof There's A Cup On Your Desk. Then I Will Personally Topple It Using My Electromagnetivity.

I've given proof. Want more?

They were called "witches," but they can in no way be identified as Wiccans. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

NONE of those executed in the so called "burning times" were wiccans. Or witches of any variety.
Did I Say Wiccan In The Post That You Quoted Which First Started This Argument? I Believe Not. I Said WITCHES. Not WICCANS.

Apparently thats beyond his Magyccaele yen.

And I thought I was helping with the pictorial proof, showing its location infront of my computer and everything.

Meh.

I've given proof. Want more?
Can You Tell Me Where You Live Or What Your Phone Number Is? Will Make It Substantially Easier In Finding You Through The Phone Line.

Did I Say Wiccan In The Post That You Quoted Which First Started This Argument? I Believe Not. I Said WITCHES. Not WICCANS.

And read the last clause of the last paragraph.


(btw, you would be a lot easier to understand if you used something approaching standard grammar. To paraphrase Maddox; You're not doing me a favour by writing that shit, I'm doing you a favour by reading it ;).)

And read the last clause of the last paragraph.


(btw, you would be a lot easier to understand if you used something approaching standard grammar. To paraphrase Maddox; You're not doing me a favour by writing that shit, I'm doing you a favour by reading it ;).)

That would be out of character for his clown act.

Can You Tell Me Where You Live Or What Your Phone Number Is? Will Make It Substantially Easier In Finding You Through The Phone Line.

St. Andrew's Gardens,
Liverpool,
(UK)

Sorry, don't have a phone line.

:EDIT: it also appears I have a glass, and a few other things on my desk. Should I take them off, lest they interfere with your Electromagnetivity?)

And read the last clause of the last paragraph.


(btw, you would be a lot easier to understand if you used something approaching standard grammar. To paraphrase Maddox; You're not doing me a favour by writing that shit, I'm doing you a favour by reading it ;).)
Of Which Post? Your Confusing Me? If You Mean My Post Which You Quoted Then Started This Arguement, Then, So What? Didn't Say Anything That Ain't True. A Few Were Burned. Not Many, But There Were Some Nonetheless.

St. Andrew's Gardens,
Liverpool,
(UK)

Sorry, don't have a phone line.
Your In The U.K.? I'm On The West Coast Of The U.S. Even If I Wanted To, My Energy Couldn't Cross The Atlantic Ocean.

Of Which Post? Your Confusing Me? If You Mean My Post Which You Quoted Then Started This Arguement,

Maybe if you didn't abuse the caps lock it would be easier to read your own posts ;)

Then, So What? Didn't Say Anything That Ain't True. A Few Were Burned. Not Many, But There Were Some Nonetheless.

Proof?

load of toss.

sweeping america maybe - can stay out of the UK, thanks.
we have our fair share of pagans (proper ancient celtic druds and the like) but liking a "religion" because its cool is stupid. religion is kinda stupid anyway (imho) and actively going 'ooh i'm not spiritual enough so i should go believe in some made up BS' is frankly pretty pathetic imho.
religion is not needed in modern life, and subscribing to a "new religion" because its 'cool' and they all did it in buffy the vampire slayer is sad...

i'm feeling bitter today :p

you forgot charmed..lol...i have to agree with your assessment...but i allready made my feelings known..un empowered girls trying to grab at a straw of empowerment..like i said..i got a few gallons of goats blood and some eye of newt for sale on ebay if your interested.

if not..i got some real cool spells you can cast on your tormenters..why actually stand up for your self and fight for your self when you can buy a handy dandy spell from me..for pennies on the dollar..shipping included.:)

Your In The U.K.? I'm On The West Coast Of The U.S. Even If I Wanted To, My Energy Couldn't Cross The Atlantic Ocean.

A likely excuse. :p

Out of interest, how far does this power of yours that allows you to knock things over extend? To about the length of your arms?

Maybe if you didn't abuse the caps lock it would be easier to read your own posts ;)



Proof?
I Watch The History Channel. If The History Channel Lies, I'm God. There Really Weren't Many Burnings. But There Were Some. Since I'm Pretty Sure The History Channel Wouldn't Have The Entire Script Of Their Shows On The Website, You Just Have To Watch Their Special On The Witch Trials.

A likely excuse. :p

Out of interest, how far does this power of yours that allows you to knock things over extend? To about the length of your arms?
As Far As My Energy Will Still Maintain. Going Through A Phone Line Would Increase My Distance Substanially, Since They Are Designed To Quickly Send Energy From Place To Place. But It Is Very Hard To Focus Your Energy. You Need Complete Silence. And It Takes A Hell Of Along Time Too. But It's Easy To Harness The Energy Of Your Body. And This Isn't Spiritual Energy. It's Called Electromagnetivity. Has It Not Been Proved That Electromagnetivity Can Move Things? With Enough Electromagnetivity, As In The Amount In A Human Body, Would You Not Be Able To Move Things? The Problem Is, Most Humans Cannot Or Do Not Try To Focus Their Energy. I Can, And Do.

I Watch The History Channel. If The History Channel Lies, I'm God.

Are you God, or do you just call yourself God?

Do you live in PA?

There Really Weren't Many Burnings. But There Were Some. Since I'm Pretty Sure The History Channel Wouldn't Have The Entire Script Of Their Shows On The Website, You Just Have To Watch Their Special On The Witch Trials.

BTW, I asked for proof, not some half remembered review of a tv program you watched and a request for me to watch a channel I don't have access to.

Now I admit I have watched very little of the History Channel, but all the programmes I have seen follow the same pattern so I think it is safe to assume this is the norm. That is there is a narrator to give the narrative and link the talking heads, and the talking heads to give the facts.

Anyway, what was the name of the person who made this highly dubious claim?

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/salem.html#profile

Ok now ill try to find a list of deaths and ways they died I know I saw one at some point.

Are you God, or do you just call yourself God?

Do you live in PA?



BTW, I asked for proof, not some half remembered review of a tv program you watched and a request for me to watch a channel I don't have access to.

Now I admit I have watched very little of the History Channel, but all the programmes I have seen follow the same pattern so I think it is safe to assume this is the norm. That is there is a narrator to give the narrative and link the talking heads, and the talking heads to give the facts.

Anyway, what was the name of the person who made this highly dubious claim?
I Don't Claim To Be God. I'm Just Saying The History Channel Doesn't Lie. And Damned If I Know Who Made The Claim. I Saw It Like, 6 Months Ago! I Don't Remeber The People Who Narrarate It, Just The Info!

Has It Not Been Proved That Electromagnetivity Can Move Things?

Has it been proved that humans have eletromagnetic fields?

Also, has it been proved that humans can send these electromagnetic fields down a phone line to knock a cup of a table.

I'll save you the bother. No and no.

With Enough Electromagnetivity, As In The Amount In A Human Body, Would You Not Be Able To Move Things? The Problem Is, Most Humans Cannot Or Do Not Try To Focus Their Energy. I Can, And Do.

Do you even know what electromagnetivity is?

Has it been proved that humans have eletromagnetic fields?

Also, has it been proved that humans can send these electromagnetic fields down a phone line to knock a cup of a table.

I'll save you the bother. No and no.



Do you even know what electromagnetivity is?


Its clearly the Scientifical Explinashin of Magycckyle Poweres

I Don't Claim To Be God.

Never. Just a joke from another thread about a guy in PA that calls himself God on official documents

I'm Just Saying The History Channel Doesn't Lie. And Damned If I Know Who Made The Claim. I Saw It Like, 6 Months Ago! I Don't Remeber The People Who Narrarate It, Just The Info!

And I am challenging your memory. I have no idea if the History Channel lies, but from my viewings of it it provides highly suspect analasyses. Also, with no authority, your arguement falls flat.

Would you accept it if I said

"Well there was this guy on a program I watched a while back who said that pigs could fly. I don't remember the name. Just the info."

?

hmm.. Probably works better if you are high..:D

Did you at least get -you know- ...the sex?? :D :D :fluffle::D


thanks..i just spit beer on my keyboard...lovely

i am going to throw a magic beer spitting spell on you for that.

Has it been proved that humans have eletromagnetic fields?

Also, has it been proved that humans can send these electromagnetic fields down a phone line to knock a cup of a table.

I'll save you the bother. No and no.



Do you even know what electromagnetivity is?
No, It Hasn't Been Proved Humans Have Electromagnetic Fields. And No, It Hasn't Been Proved They Can Send Their Fields And Focus It. But I Believe In Science. And I Have Seen These Things Happen. So, These Are My Theories On It. I Will Not Accept A "Supernatural" Answer To These Questions, And There Are No Scientific Answers, So I Simply Take What I Know, Take What Has Been Proven By Science, And Figure Things Out From There.

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/salem.html#profile

Ok now ill try to find a list of deaths and ways they died I know I saw one at some point.

Please, please, please.

Do not mention the name Tituba.

Wicca is absurd. There's no point to it, except to reject modern religions like Christianity, Judaism, etc. There's no doctrine, you basically make up what you believe, and you have to BELIVE that spells, casting circles, contacting deities from past civilizations is REAL. It's all a bunch of nonsense. If you want to be spiritual, be spiritual. Don't become Wiccan because it "looks cool".

To say it's sweeping the Nation is also very shortsighted. It may be sweeping high schools among virgin closeted gay boys, and among overweight girls whose fathers touch them inappropriately, but these people grow out of it.

Never. Just a joke from another thread about a guy in PA that calls himself God on official documents



And I am challenging your memory. I have no idea if the History Channel lies, but from my viewings of it it provides highly suspect analasyses. Also, with no authority, your arguement falls flat.

Would you accept it if I said

"Well there was this guy on a program I watched a while back who said that pigs could fly. I don't remember the name. Just the info."

?
Concerning The Fact That The History Channel Is Reputable, While The Program You Saw About Pigs Flying Most Probably Isn't. I'm Sorry If You Don't Get The History Channel In Britian. But Over Here In The U.S., We Get It. And Believe Me, It Is Very Reputable.

Wicca is absurd. There's no point to it, except to reject modern religions like Christianity, Judaism, etc. There's no doctrine, you basically make up what you believe, and you have to BELIVE that spells, casting circles, contacting deities from past civilizations is REAL. It's all a bunch of nonsense. If you want to be spiritual, be spiritual. Don't become Wiccan because it "looks cool".

To say it's sweeping the Nation is also very shortsighted. It may be sweeping high schools among virgin closeted gay boys, and among overweight girls whose fathers touch them inappropriately, but these people grow out of it.
Damnit, Another Anti-Religious Tolerance Asshole Who Don't Actually Know Anything About What They're Bashing. When Will They Stop Spawning?

No, It Hasn't Been Proved Humans Have Electromagnetic Fields. And No, It Hasn't Been Proved They Can Send Their Fields And Focus It. But I Believe In Science.

Oh dear God no!

I never realised education was that bad in the States.

And I Have Seen These Things Happen. So, These Are My Theories On It. I Will Not Accept A "Supernatural" Answer To These Questions, And There Are No Scientific Answers,

You know, there may be a reason for that....

So I Simply Take What I Know,

Which evidently isn't very much.


Take What Has Been Proven By Science,

Wait. I thought you said it hadn't been proven by science :confused:

Please, please, please.

Do not mention the name Tituba.
And? Why Not?

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/salem/salem.htm

Sorry no burning during the Salem events but there were some in other areas.
Ill have to find those. Grrr this is getting annoying.

Oh ! Have you ever seen a picture of someones Ora? What do you think you are geting a photograph of?

http://www.spiritualgarden.net/science/human_magnetism.htm

Concerning The Fact That The History Channel Is Reputable, While The Program You Saw About Pigs Flying Most Probably Isn't. I'm Sorry If You Don't Get The History Channel In Britian. But Over Here In The U.S., We Get It. And Believe Me, It Is Very Reputable.

No, we get it. But I don't. You see to get second rate history programmes, I would need to get a set top box and a subscription, something which I don't think is worth the money.

And answer me this, if the History Channel is so reputable, why is it never cited anywhere?

Oh dear God no!

I never realised education was that bad in the States.



You know, there may be a reason for that....



Which evidently isn't very much.




Wait. I thought you said it hadn't been proven by science :confused:
Answer 1: It Is That Bad. No One Teaching Scientific Theories.
Answer 2: Yes, Because No One In The Field Of Science Wants To Admit Something Like This Is Possible.
Answer 3: Considerably, I Am In The Top 5 Percent Concerning Student Intelligence At My School
Answer 4: I'm Not Saying That My Theory Was Proved By Science. I'm Saying What Already Has Been Proved By Science. Not What I Hope Will Be Proved By Science.

And? Why Not?

Because it is an annoying legend spread by people who never question what they are told first hand and believe that Dan Brown 'theories' are true.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/salem/salem.htm

Sorry no burning during the Salem events but there were some in other areas.
Ill have to find those. Grrr this is getting annoying.

Oh ! Have you ever seen a picture of someones Ora? What do you think you are geting a photograph of?

http://www.spiritualgarden.net/science/human_magnetism.htm
Exactly. Electromagnetism Is What Many People Call "Aura (Ora, In Your Mind", "Chi", "Soul", Etc. I Would Explain My Whole Theory On Electromagnetism, But Too Many People Would Flame Me And Call Me Insane.

:sniper: Excuse me.....I posted a link there for your proof. And for your information scientiests in the u.s. wont admit essential oils heal either when other counties have. They cant patent them. I know this from a chemist.

Answer 1: It Is That Bad. No One Teaching Scientific Theories.

Evidently not.

You don't even seem to know what electromagnatism is.

Answer 2: Yes, Because No One In The Field Of Science Wants To Admit Something Like This Is Possible.

If a bunch of "soccer moms" can present a serious threat to science education by insisting "both sides be taught," one wonders why scientists are spending their time squashing the idea that people can send energy down phone lines.

Answer 3: Considerably, I Am In The Top 5 Percent Concerning Student Intelligence At My School

Oh dear god no, and this is from the most powerful nation in the world.

Answer 4: I'm Not Saying That My Theory Was Proved By Science. I'm Saying What Already Has Been Proved By Science. Not What I Hope Will Be Proved By Science.

meh.

Have you done any experiments?

:sniper: Excuse me.....I posted a link there for your proof. And for your information scientiests in the u.s. wont admit essential oils heal either when other counties have. They cant patent them. I know this from a chemist.
Yeah, Scientists Don't Want To Prove Something Scientifically That Is Already "Proved" Supernaturally/Religiously. I Think It Violates Something About Science. But I Am Very Open. I Search For A Scientific Explanation To Everything Supernatural/Religious. Most Of The Time I Don't Find Any Sensible Answer. Some Time I Make Theories Which I Hope To Prove Later In Life, As I Do Not Have The Resources Now. Some Times I Find The Answer Already Proven By Science, But Scientists Don't Want To Point Out Because They Think It Might Make Them Look Bad.

Have you done any experiments?
Read My Post Directly Under The One I Quoted From. I Do Sincerely Wish I Had The Resources To Do An Experiment, Though.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/salem/salem.htm

Sorry no burning during the Salem events but there were some in other areas.
Ill have to find those. Grrr this is getting annoying.

Oh ! Have you ever seen a picture of someones Ora? What do you think you are geting a photograph of?

http://www.spiritualgarden.net/science/human_magnetism.htm

Do you have an unbiased source that doesn't link the www.newagebollocks.com website?

Though the basic science is true (as far as I remember my Physics anyway). It procedes to make many unfounded leaps of reason/faith that cannot be proven (because they don't exist), so it ends up with a batshit insane conclusion.

And no, I haven't seen a picture of someones aura. And if you think you have a fool proof way to detect auras, contact James Randi, he'll make you a millionaire.

Do you have an unbiased source that doesn't link the www.newagebollocks.com website?

Though the basic science is true (as far as I remember my Physics anyway). It procedes to make many unfounded leaps of reason/faith that cannot be proven (because they don't exist), so it ends up with a batshit insane conclusion.

And no, I haven't seen a picture of someones aura.
You Say My Sources Aren't Credible. Your Source Doesn't Even Lead Anywhere.

Yeah, Scientists Don't Want To Prove Something Scientifically That Is Already "Proved" Supernaturally/Religiously. I Think It Violates Something About Science. But I Am Very Open.

Obviously, I mean the preceding clauses from the bolded part really show it.


But Scientists Don't Want To Point Out Because They Think It Might Make Them Look Bad.

Yeah, that must be.

I mean. no one else could have tried and failed right?

And it isn't as if the discovery will mean big bucks or anything.

You Say My Sources Aren't Credible. Your Source Doesn't Even Lead Anywhere.

*sigh*

I forgot, bollocks doesn't exist in the American vocabulary.

Try this one.

www.newagebullshit.com

wow so many of you people are SO damn rude!!! I happen to be wiccan, and I don't go around bashing Christians and such, very few of we "true" pagans do. Yes people do it for attention, every religion has its wacko trendy brats. But this is not needed, for so many people to just trash others' beliefs. People choose religion based on how it makes them feel, and I never got the satisfaction from Christianity that I do from Wiccan. As for sweeping America, no. As for most wiccans being goth, FUCK no. And don't forget, we are as normal as the rest of you. I am an honors student, I'm on stage crew, I perform in mock trial, I'M NO DIFFERENT FROM YOU. Seriously, I get made fun of daily because word got out that I'm an "uncivilized pagan" and it is not fair, but I still don't attack others religion. Its a personal choice, and what makes you happy, like your sexuality, or even how you style your hair. Each person is unique, and nobody should be telling them how to worship what they BELIEVE. So what if you don't agree with them? Keep your mouth shut, its not your place to antagonize them. Okay, sorry for that rant, but I just called uncivilized for what I BELIEVE IN. Nobody deserves that. And don't just assume that little girls who pile on black makeup and say incantations are what we wiccans/witches are all about. We are about self-empowerment. Each person is strong and beautiful and wise and perfect as they are. Thank you. I wish you all the best. So mote it be.

it is pretty hard to not be rude about,especially when someone claims to be able to break a legin 2 minutes.
then backsteps and says it is just an exgaration to prove a point...

i agree with you,i respect everyones beliefs,no matter how crazy they may seem to me...cause they just may be right...and i was an alter boy for along time,i aint a practising anything,but i do believe in right and wrong,i believe everyone is entitled to believe whatever makes them happy..but i also believe in the man on the moon..when i was a youngster...wicca is just to me,and i may be wrong,just another version of santa/jesus/.mohammadn and someway to feel empowered for people that feel outside religion(mainstream)

and to piss off daddy or just flat be different and "unique"

i wont pooh pooh anthing,but i reserve the right to laugh out loud at some idiout worshipping a rock on the side of a hill,or some mascara covered twits having a seance,thinking how deep they are and all us fools in the world are clueless...goes back to feeling empowered..you need that re inforcement..fine,just dont act like i am some dullard cause i aint buying what your selling!

oh..and i know a few wiccans,but i know more people acting like wiccans to sell them crap...so what does that say....?

be your own religion..to me at least...gonna start one...donations gratefully accepted.

Obviously, I mean the preceding clauses from the bolded part really show it.




Yeah, that must be.

I mean. no one else could have tried and failed right?

And it isn't as if the discovery will mean big bucks or anything.
Yes I'm Very Open. To Opinions. But When Someone Presents A Fact Which I Know With All Certanity Is FALSE, I'm Not Very Open. And I Realize The Discovery Won't Mean Big Bucks, But At Least It Will Possibly Open The Gates Between Science And Religion. Maybe They Can Help Each Other Explain Things The Other Can't.

Obviously, I mean the preceding clauses from the bolded part really show it.




Yeah, that must be.

I mean. no one else could have tried and failed right?

And it isn't as if the discovery will mean big bucks or anything.


No pictures of auras?

I have the next best thing, its a picture of "astrology" that accompanied the definition "hoodoo jive when reason and sense take a back seat to fantasy &c."

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f63/azmjs/hoodoo.jpg

This meets the standard of evidence set when "pictures of auras" are considered "evidence of auras."

I expect all honest and decent Wytcchyse to accept and acknowledge this.

And I Realize The Discovery Won't Mean Big Bucks

Its difficult to tell if things like this are trolling, it would be tough work being a mod.

*sigh*

I forgot, bollocks doesn't exist in the American vocabulary.

Try this one.

www.newagebullshit.com
Dude. I Know What Bollocks Means. And That Website Doesn't Exist Either. Stop Trying To Bash New Age Religion. And Didn't We Already Say Wicca Isn't New Age? So Where Are You Trying To Go With This?

Its difficult to tell if things like this are trolling, it would be tough work being a mod.
What? How In The Hell Is That Trolling?

What? How In The Hell Is That Trolling?


Clearly I didnt say it was trolling, just that it was very hard to tell whether or not it was trolling.

Clearly I didnt say it was trolling, just that it was very hard to tell whether or not it was trolling.
Well If It Is Trolling, How In The Hell Is It?

To Opinions. But When Someone Presents A Fact Which I Know With All Certanity Is FALSE,

And how do you determine if something is true or false? Intuition

And I Realize The Discovery Won't Mean Big Bucks,

You may be able to sense truth. But you sure cannot sense sarcasm.

But At Least It Will Possibly Open The Gates Between Science And Religion.

You know that there are priests that are scientists right? Surely they do more to open the gates between the two.

And I am being serious, I've met one, a Jesuit astrophysicist who worked at the Vatican Observatory. Also read up on Mendel and Pavlov (of the dog fame), IIRC both of them were monks.

Opening the gates between the two is far better done by these sorts of people than people like you who create fantasies and sociopathically attempt to make the world to share in your delusion.

Well If It Is Trolling, How In The Hell Is It?

Have you ever watched the Ali G Show?

Dude. I Know What Bollocks Means. And That Website Doesn't Exist Either. Stop Trying To Bash New Age Religion. And Didn't We Already Say Wicca Isn't New Age? So Where Are You Trying To Go With This?

(God knows how you are in the top 5% if you cannot put things in context, that were already in the original context.)

I know the website doesn't exist, put it back into context and it will make the whole thing clearer. Or do you want me to hold your hand and walk you through it?

Also we had temporarily left the world of wicca behind and I was responding to the link Leaf gave.

And how do you determine if something is true or false? Intuition



You may be able to sense truth. But you sure cannot sense sarcasm.



You know that there are priests that are scientists right? Surely they do more to open the gates between the two.

And I am being serious, I've met one, a Jesuit astrophysicist who worked at the Vatican Observatory. Also read up on Mendel and Pavlov (of the dog fame), IIRC both of them were monks.

Opening the gates between the two is far better done by these sorts of people than people like you who create fantasies and sociopathically attempt to make the world to share in your delusion.
Answer #1: I Know It Through Recorded Facts
Answer #2: ...
Answer #3: Well, Is There A Priest Who Believes In Creatonism Who Is Also A Scientist Who Believes In Evolutionism? Gregor Mendel Didn't Discover Anything That Went Against Christian Beliefs. He Discovered Genes. Nothing About Genetics Goes Against Christianity. Except For Perhaps That Mutations In Genes Cause Evolution. But Gregor Never Thought Of That.

Have you ever watched the Ali G Show?
Sorry, No.

Its difficult to tell if things like this are trolling, it would be tough work being a mod.

I know, it almost like everything. From the desire to get everyone to share in his delusion to the Typing His Posts Like This, is designed specifically to annoy.

Definately hard to determine.



Though the real indictment is on me. I should be writing a covering letter for an application form and CV for a job, yet I'm wasting it on this.

I know, it almost like everything. From the desire to get everyone to share in his delusion to the Typing His Posts Like This, is designed specifically to annoy.

Definately hard to determine.



Though the real indictment is on me. I should be writing a covering letter for an application form and CV for a job, yet I'm wasting it on this.


I dont see a substantial difference between this clown act and just typing in all caps, but hey, they're the boss, not me.

I know, it almost like everything. From the desire to get everyone to share in his delusion to the Typing His Posts Like This, is designed specifically to annoy.

Definately hard to determine.



Though the real indictment is on me. I should be writing a covering letter for an application form and CV for a job, yet I'm wasting it on this.
Answer #1: I'm Not Trying To Get You To Believe In What I Believe. I Believe You Started The Bashing First. I'm Simply Trying To Defend Myself, Not To Attack Others. And Just Because I Type My Posts Like This Doesn't Mean I'm Trying To Annoy People. I Type Like This Because I Want To. It Makes Me Happy For Some Reason.
Answer #2: So, You Just Admitted Being A Little Unintelligent. About Time Someone Finally Admits A Flaw.

Answer #1: I Know It Through Recorded Facts

Though one would think recorded facts would be, well, - recorded. So you could provide evidence rather than "well I saw this TV programme once...."

Answer #2: ...

Translation into basic: I was being sarcastic

Answer #3: Well, Is There A Priest Who Believes In Creatonism Who Is Also A Scientist Who Believes In Evolutionism?

Huh? What you smoking?

Gregor Mendel Didn't Discover Anything That Went Against Christian Beliefs. He Discovered Genes. Nothing About Genetics Goes Against Christianity. Except For Perhaps That Mutations In Genes Cause Evolution. But Gregor Never Thought Of That.

It is getting rather difficult to work out if you are intentionally missing the point or doing it on purpose.

And Just Because I Type My Posts Like This Doesn't Mean I'm Trying To Annoy People.

It does once you know it is annoying several people.

It Makes Me Happy For Some Reason.

And I thought I was the saddest person on this thread.

Answer #2: So, You Just Admitted Being A Little Unintelligent. About Time Someone Finally Admits A Flaw.

(Though I'm not denying being of average intelligence)

That isn't what I said, I said that as aweful and as inane this thread and its OP are, I'm far worse since I am typing a reply rather then working on something which would mean a guarenteed 12 months of work for me.

Though one would think recorded facts would be, well, - recorded. So you could provide evidence rather than "well I saw this TV programme once...."



Translation into basic: I was being sarcastic



Huh? What you smoking?



It is getting rather difficult to work out if you are intentionally missing the point or doing it on purpose.
Answer #1: It Was Recorded, Then Put Onto A TV Program.
Answer #2: I Realize That. Your Just Being An Asshole
Answer #3: The Point Is That You Say There Are People Who Are Strongly Religious, Yet Strongly Scientific. So I Ask If They Take Both Of The Belief Systems Most Argued Over Point, How Humanity Originated.

It does once you know it is annoying several people.



And I thought I was the saddest person on this thread.



(Though I'm not denying being of average intelligence)

That isn't what I said, I said that as aweful and as inane this thread and its OP are, I'm far worse since I am typing a reply rather then working on something which would mean a guarenteed 12 months of work for me.
Answer#1: So What? It Will Annoy Me Greater Than Those People If I Have To Stop Typing Like This.
Answer#2: How Does That Make Me The Saddest Person On This Thread?
Answer#3: What I Meant Is That You Admitted Doing This Instead Of Doing Something Productive. This Makes You Honest, But You Also Admitted Doing Something Stupid.

Answer #1: It Was Recorded, Then Put Onto A TV Program.

Yet nowhere else.

Now I wonder why that would be

Answer #2: I Realize That. Your Just Being An Asshole

Sigh

No, I was being sarcastic. Big difference.

Answer #3: The Point Is That You Say There Are People Who Are Strongly Religious, Yet Strongly Scientific. So I Ask If They Take Both Of The Belief Systems Most Argued Over Point, How Humanity Originated.

Yet you create a strawman. Not all Christians believe in ID. Jesuits, like the rest of the Catholic Church agree with evolution. ID is not scientific, so any scientist worth their salt would drop like an aborted fetus.

Answer#1: So What? It Will Annoy Me Greater Than Those People If I Have To Stop Typing Like This.
Answer#2: How Does That Make Me The Saddest Person On This Thread?

because inane little things amuse you greatly.


Answer#3: What I Meant Is That You Admitted Doing This Instead Of Doing Something Productive. This Makes You Honest, But You Also Admitted Doing Something Stupid.

True.

I was a Wiccan once, but then I grew up and realized it's all probably bullsh*t, along with all the other "faiths". Someone just invented them all for a reason to have ceremonies.

Yet nowhere else.

Now I wonder why that would be



Sigh

No, I was being sarcastic. Big difference.



Yet you create a strawman. Not all Christians believe in ID. Jesuits, like the rest of the Catholic Church agree with evolution. ID is not scientific, so any scientist worth their salt would drop like an aborted fetus.
Answer #1:...
Answer #2: You're Being An Asshole And Sarcastic
Answer #3: Ok Then, My Argument Now Only Applies To Non-Jesuits And Non-Catholics, If Your Statement Is True. So Now My Statement Applies To Every Religion That Believes In ID. What I'm Hoping That My Experiments Which I Mentioned Earlier In This Thread Will Open The Gates Between Science And Religion. My Statement About Sharing The Idea Of ID And Evolutionism Is Just To Say If They Believe In Most Of The Beliefs Of Their Religion And Science. If They Do, Then My Hope Of Opening The Gates Between Science And Religion Has Already Happened.

Strength comes from different sources for different people. I do not know a SINGLE person in this world who doesn't have atleast one insecurity. Everybody has a habit. Everybody identifies with different things. For some people, it JUST HAPPENS to be what they think of as 'God' , a 'higher power', 'Etc.'

As for me, it happens to be my connection with nature. It calms me. It encourages my passion - it inspires me. It holds me when I'm upset; yes, it is a very real, very tangible thing to me. I feel a spirit in it. It breathes outside of me, and therefore inside of me. Try convincing me of anything else and you will see the life drain from my eyes.

thank you..a well reasoned and articulate reason for your feelings!

i also feel a connection with nature..i love being close to the earth,in the woods...it gives me solace and calms me as well.

and maybe i was a tad condescending in my replies..bad humor i suppose.

i do know alot of girls(oddly)that turn to all sorts of religion to give there lifes meaning..i feel sad for them...they are all unique people,but do to self esteem issues look elsewhere for happiness?
why dont they just realise they are special and unique unto themselves...and need nothing other then their own ability to find peace with themselves?

sorry..sound like a shrink...

i was a mess(thanks to being an alter boy with normal male urges)and i found solice in mad amounts of drugs and booze...lol...bad for me,but i'm still here.

i guess i understand your point,if it helps you thru the day,then great,if it empowers a person that is lost,even better..so i recant my sarcasm and jokes...it is more important for a lost soul to find solice then for me to wise crack.

aside from the nightmare called catholic school that i attended for 10 years(i should know better then to bust stones..sorry)i should no better then to tease the childhood angst kids go thru,and if anything helps them thru it...good for them.

that is what any religion is..is it not..no more then an opiate for the masses...all religion..i just preferred heroin.

it is nature for me as well..thanks for the insight...nothing soothes me more then being alone in the mountains..watching a stream flow by..it is religous to me also..

and yes..i am ridiculed by my friends for going off to the mountains to be at one..so...i was wrong for teasing..my apologies...sincerely...i just have an issue with organised religion i suppose.
any religion...i believe in the self..but you gotta get thru angst to get there...i forgot that..my bad.

So Now My Statement Applies To Every Religion That Believes In ID.[] What I'm Hoping That My Experiments Which I Mentioned Earlier In This Thread Will Open The Gates Between Science And Religion.

But the gates are already open. In fact it is doubtful that they were ever even closed.

Just not to fundies who hold dogma over proven fact.

Last edited by Ritlina : Today at 4:48 AM. Reason: Your Mean, You Realize That? Don't Put An End Quote In The Middle Of Something I Try To Quote.

Ahh, sorry about that.

It is getting rather late (or early, depending on your perspective) here, so mistakes, though unfortunate, are very likely to happen.

But the gates are already open. In fact it is doubtful that they were ever even closed.

Just not to fundies who hold dogma over proven fact.
Ok Then, Give Me Something That Says Science And Religion's Ideas Are Mixing. Besides The Whole "Catholics Believe In Evolution" Thing. And By This I Mean, Are There Things Like There Are People Who Believe In A Combo Of ID And Evolution?

Ok Then, Give Me Something That Says Science And Religion Are Mixing. Besides The Whole "Catholics Believe In Evolution" Thing.

Can you show that they were ever really completely seperate?

Can you show that they were ever really completely seperate?
Ok, They May Not Be Completely Seperate. But Lets Say That The Gate Was Always Open, Just At Different Distances. I Want To Make Sure That The Gate Is Fully Opened, And The Ideas From Either Side Can Easily Mix.

I am a christian, and also very intune with nature.
But I identify with the Society of Friends (Quaker for those of you who don't know) closest and then a hodgepodge of the other denominations. I'm a children's minister intern at a Christian Church. I love it :)

Ok, They May Not Be Completely Seperate. But Lets Say That The Gate Was Always Open, Jut At Different Distances. I Want To Make Sure That The Gate Is Fully Opened, And The Ideas From Either Side Can Easily Mix.

But religion deals with stuff outside of sciences reach, the supernatural, science can only deal with the natural.

Ok Then, Give Me Something That Says Science And Religion's Ideas Are Mixing. Besides The Whole "Catholics Believe In Evolution" Thing. And By This I Mean, Are There Things Like There Are People Who Believe In A Combo Of ID And Evolution?

The Church of England has accepted theistic evolution since the sixties. The position of the bishop of oxford is that the bible does not speak to cosmology/creation, and evolution is merely a 'faith position'.

Mind you, the church of england doesn't require a belief in god for its communicants either.

But religion deals with stuff outside of sciences reach, the supernatural, science can only deal with the natural.
Yes, Science In Todays World Can Only Handle The Natural. I Want To Get Science To Deal With The "Supernatural" Along With The Natural. That Is What I Hope To Do With My Experiment. Hmm... Trying To Think Of A "Gate" Metaphor To Go With How Much Science And Religion Can Deal With.

I am a christian, and also very intune with nature.
But I identify with the Society of Friends (Quaker for those of you who don't know) closest and then a hodgepodge of the other denominations. I'm a children's minister intern at a Christian Church. I love it :)

The Quakers in my experience are a decent bunch. I've never met one I disliked (and I've met a few).

Welcome to NS


(BTW as a bit of trivia, I used to live near the hill where George Fox had his vision.)

Yes, Science In Todays World Can Only Handle The Natural. I Want To Get Science To Deal With The "Supernatural" Along With The Natural. That Is What I Hope To Do With My Experiment.

Sorry, no can do. Science can only deal with what is observable, and which can be tested. By its nature the supernatural are neither.

Sorry, no can do. Science can only deal with what is observable, and which can be tested. By its nature the supernatural are neither.
Very Well Then. I Still Want That Gate To Open Though. It Would Be A Good Thing To See Two Sides Which Always Oppose Each Other Mix Their Ideas. I'll See You In The Morning.

Very Well Then. I Still Want That Gate To Open Though. It Would Be A Good Thing To See Two Sides Which Always Oppose Each Other Mix Their Ideas. I'll See You In The Morning.

They don't always oppose each other.

Science only opposes fundementalism which makes unscientific claims without regard to science. Or put it a different way. Science on opposes blind and unrepentant ignorance.

Ok ok ok. What is with the hate toward Ritlina? Last time I checked s/he updates their created thread more often than almost anyone on this board currently. S/he has more consistency than many of his/her enemies. Simply because she employs a different typing style does not make the points any less valid, unless the other people posting here are simply superficial fools that care not for understanding a person's argument but rather how they look good while typing. So please, leave someone alone who is doing a nice job in my opinon. However, Ritlina, please stop responding to these childish accusations against your person, just let it go. If it bothers you, take solace in the fact they could not refute your argument.

I am done playing mother. Now for my thoughts on Wicca. Wicca, in my opinion, is a understandable extension of the Pagan rituals and ideas passed down for centuries. People seem to join for a variety of reasons, whether it is to rebel, to have freedom from restrictions of other religions, to have a sense of empowerment, or to gain acceptance. These reasons seem to be motivating factors to join almost any religion. As such, I see Wicca as a valid religion without specific text. It has rules and regulations, specific defining factors, and even denominations/sects. I will state that Wicca is a valid religion, and I will make no statement as to it's theological accuracy.
- Veritas

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.

I think Wicca is just another addition to the huge wall of religions. i dont even know what to think about any religion anymore

Wicca is absurd. There's no point to it, except to reject modern religions like Christianity, Judaism, etc. There's no doctrine, you basically make up what you believe, and you have to BELIVE that spells, casting circles, contacting deities from past civilizations is REAL. It's all a bunch of nonsense. If you want to be spiritual, be spiritual. Don't become Wiccan because it "looks cool".

To say it's sweeping the Nation is also very shortsighted. It may be sweeping high schools among virgin closeted gay boys, and among overweight girls whose fathers touch them inappropriately, but these people grow out of it.

hehehehe...too funny

Ok ok ok. What is with the hate toward Ritlina? Last time I checked s/he updates their created thread more often than almost anyone on this board currently. S/he has more consistency than many of his/her enemies. Simply because she employs a different typing style does not make the points any less valid, unless the other people posting here are simply superficial fools that care not for understanding a person's argument but rather how they look good while typing. So please, leave someone alone who is doing a nice job in my opinon. However, Ritlina, please stop responding to these childish accusations against your person, just let it go. If it bothers you, take solace in the fact they could not refute your argument.

I am done playing mother. Now for my thoughts on Wicca. Wicca, in my opinion, is a understandable extension of the Pagan rituals and ideas passed down for centuries. People seem to join for a variety of reasons, whether it is to rebel, to have freedom from restrictions of other religions, to have a sense of empowerment, or to gain acceptance. These reasons seem to be motivating factors to join almost any religion. As such, I see Wicca as a valid religion without specific text. It has rules and regulations, specific defining factors, and even denominations/sects. I will state that Wicca is a valid religion, and I will make no statement as to it's theological accuracy.
- Veritas


shouldnt it be..en vino veritas?

unless the other people posting here are simply superficial fools that care not for understanding a person's argument but rather how they look good while typing.

It has nothing to do with that.

It has all to do with how easy it is to read. And though it has no effect on the substance of the post, it does affect the post. Since it is difficult to read, as many posters have pointed out, it comes over as ever so slightly aggressive. In the same way that someone who types all in caps might come across as aggressive.

I'm sure this thread would be a lot different if Ritlina deferred to a style easier to read. No one is demanding perfect grammar, just a style that is easier to read.

Can anyone tell me what Wicca actually consists of? What actual religious practices are there? All I can seem to find out about it is the basic ground rules.

You must claim to be a Wiccan.
You have a god and/or goddess.
The three fold law.
All spells are done in this manner: "May something bad/good happen to you in some way, shape or form at some point in your life."

All the sites I've been to pretty much just say this and begin to talk about nature or somthing.

Or I could just be ignorant.

I am no priestess and would never claim to know everything. But I may be able to answer if you have a question. What exactly is it you want to know? when it comes to paganism there are meany pathes, not to mention all this new age stuff that seems to fall under paganism too.

when it comes to wiccanism ill post a link with a copy of there crede. it explains what there basic beliefes are. Its a bit old and easy for me to read but I have had to explin it befor. http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/rede.htm Actually most pagan pathes fallow somthing close to this.

Personally I don't belive in wiccan faith or anything supernatural like souls, gaia or god.

I belive that when everuthing started it's like a pool-table when you shatter the cluster the first time, the initial motion swung a course of action that we really has no way to influence (if you choose something and consider something else it's the chain of events, it's not choice per se) since we are just the balls. There is no "outside influence" it's just energy and matter going a set but unpredictable path, no mather how much faith you put into it, "life" is just that, Energy and Matter, doing the preset course of action that was initiated so long ago. Call it faith if that is what you wish to call it.

However if there where a soul or a god or other outside influence then that would be a diffrent story, I just don't belive there is one of those...

In other words: to me Wicca is just BS, but I respect the fact that you belive in it, you belive it because that is the course of action the initial energy has made you choose, just like any other choice, be it religious or otherwise.

And yes, I know it's kind of a sad way to view life, but so is fooling yourself with a sense of greater importance/meaning.

Meh.

By what evidence do you claim Wicca was "invented as a literary supplement"?
a literary supplement?

sounds like something my doctor tells me to eat with my wheaties..and i hate supplaments...they are usually taken anally:(

Give it up, Leafiana. Fuckwits like Granada are going to keep on thinking that Wicca has nothing to do with real beliefs and everything to do with wanting to be cool. There is no such thing as polite discussion on these forums, they're nothing but flamefests. Anyone who dares to be polite and rational is either ignored or shouted down. I could be polite in this post but then nobody would read it.


that statement in and of itself is baiting.

i am ambivalent to all religions...just because i find wicca farsical...like a monty python skit...just because some watery tart hands me a sword in a aquatic ceremony..does not make me king richard,nor does my opinion of your religion.
if you believe...have at it...but dont come knocking for moral support from me...for some farsical neo religion..you hate daddy or need to feel different...fine by me..but dont you dare imply i am not tolerent...i have been there and back...i and i would wager..your an upstart,and i have miles upon miles on you...but to say i dont buy your line o shit cause i am intolerant..is intolerance from you.

an aquatic ceremony from a waterey tart..damn i love the brits.

i cant stop laughing..thank god for the uk

Ritlina, do you mind if I give you a little challenge? Since you earlier seemed willing to prove your power, with only problems of distance stopping you from doing it. You mentioned however that you could do it if you had a way of transfering the energy, could I suggest using the internet? I believe it should sufice. In front of me next to my tv there is a pinwheel. A pin wheel is a square of paper, folded to make a pyramid shape on a pin. Most practitioners of telekinisis use it to practice. If you can make the paper fall off the pinwheel, and give me the time it happened, then I will be convinced. If finding it is too difficult then perhaps you could discover my real name? If you can do either you can be assured you will have at least one major supporter in this arguement. Thanks.

Ritlina, do you mind if I give you a little challenge? Since you earlier seemed willing to prove your power, with only problems of distance stopping you from doing it. You mentioned however that you could do it if you had a way of transfering the energy, could I suggest using the internet? I believe it should sufice. In front of me next to my tv there is a pinwheel. A pin wheel is a square of paper, folded to make a pyramid shape on a pin. Most practitioners of telekinisis use it to practice. If you can make the paper fall off the pinwheel, and give me the time it happened, then I will be convinced. If finding it is too difficult then perhaps you could discover my real name? If you can do either you can be assured you will have at least one major supporter in this arguement. Thanks.

if i can get a huge erection..i would as well be impressed.

Personally I don't belive in wiccan faith or anything supernatural like souls, gaia or god.

I belive that when everuthing started it's like a pool-table when you shatter the cluster the first time, the initial motion swung a course of action that we really has no way to influence (if you choose something and consider something else it's the chain of events, it's not choice per se) since we are just the balls. There is no "outside influence" it's just energy and matter going a set but unpredictable path, no mather how much faith you put into it, "life" is just that, Energy and Matter, doing the preset course of action that was initiated so long ago. Call it faith if that is what you wish to call it.

However if there where a soul or a god or other outside influence then that would be a diffrent story, I just don't belive there is one of those...

In other words: to me Wicca is just BS, but I respect the fact that you belive in it, you belive it because that is the course of action the initial energy has made you choose, just like any other choice, be it religious or otherwise.

And yes, I know it's kind of a sad way to view life, but so is fooling yourself with a sense of greater importance/meaning.

See, on this I can just agree to disagree. Yet I will not be so narrow minded as to say its not posable. Anything is really poasble, but most things unlikely. I thank you for your tact in stateing your thoughts as well. You state you believe wicca to be BS but make it clear you this this of religion in general. It is not a direct attack at me or what i believe ( though i am pagan). I do agree if there is no higher power then we would all seem quite silly indeed. Especially those fighting over whose god is the only god. :p If that ever came to a day when it was proven I would be happy to sit with you and have a good giggle at my self and everyone else. But I think it best to have somthing to believe in.

Ritlina, do you mind if I give you a little challenge? Since you earlier seemed willing to prove your power, with only problems of distance stopping you from doing it. You mentioned however that you could do it if you had a way of transfering the energy, could I suggest using the internet? I believe it should sufice. In front of me next to my tv there is a pinwheel. A pin wheel is a square of paper, folded to make a pyramid shape on a pin. Most practitioners of telekinisis use it to practice. If you can make the paper fall off the pinwheel, and give me the time it happened, then I will be convinced. If finding it is too difficult then perhaps you could discover my real name? If you can do either you can be assured you will have at least one major supporter in this arguement. Thanks.
Well, I Did Say In A Post Since Phone Lines Are Designed To Allow Easy Travel For Energy, I Believe That I Could Possibly Find You. The Problem Is, I Do Have A Limited Amount Of Electromagnitivity. So It Would Take A Hell Of A Long Time To Find You. Maybe If You Gave Me Your Phone Number Or Adress, It'd Be Easier To Find You. Even Then, I Still Might Not Have Enough Electromagnitivity To Get There (As In, U.K., Etc.). So Tell Me Where You Are, And I'll Try To Find You And Push That Paper Off! And For Those Who Consider My Style Of Typing Agressive, I Really Don't Find Anything Agressive About This.

Oh, And For Those Who Want To Try To Focus Their Energy To Perform Telekineses And The Such, I Warn You, It Is Dangerous. Just A Few Days Ago I Was Attempting To Focus My Energy Singulary Through My Thumb. I Lost Control Of My Energy, And It Cut My Thumb. Deep. It Bleed Freely For About Five Minutes. Now Then, Imagine If I Had Tried Using My Mind To Focus It Instead Of My Thumb. Enough Said. (Techincally I Focus Using My Mind, But I Use My Hand/Finger/Thumb To Send It Out Of My Body. But It Is Possible For The More Trained To Be Able To Go "No Hands", And Instead Focus Their Energy Both By And Through The Mind. I Am No Where Near That Ability, Though)

I Can't Just Talk To Myself People! Can Someone Give Me Feed Back?

Ok Well, I Have To Go To Even More School. Remeber, KEEP THIS THREAD ALIVE!

Oh, And For Those Who Want To Try To Focus Their Energy To Perform Telekineses And The Such, I Warn You, It Is Dangerous. Just A Few Days Ago I Was Attempting To Focus My Energy Singulary Through My Thumb. I Lost Control Of My Energy, And It Cut My Thumb. Deep. It Bleed Freely For About Five Minutes. Now Then, Imagine If I Had Tried Using My Mind To Focus It Instead Of My Thumb. Enough Said. (Techincally I Focus Using My Mind, But I Use My Hand/Finger/Thumb To Send It Out Of My Body. But It Is Possible For The More Trained To Be Able To Go "No Hands", And Instead Focus Their Energy Both By And Through The Mind. I Am No Where Near That Ability, Though)

Next time use a spoon and not a knife.

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.

"Wicca/Witchcaft is also known as the 'Old Religion,' since it predates Christianity (the New Religion)."
Buckland, Raymond. (2004). Wicca for One: The Path of Solitary Witchcraft (pg viii) New York, NY: Kensington Publishing Corp.
ISBN 0-5065-2554-1

Also, the first time anyone has written about the Wicca religion was in 1954 by Gerald B. Gardner called Witchcraft Today. The first time a Wicca book was published in the United States was in the 1970's titled Witchcraft From the Inside by Raymond Buckland. Moto the Wise, Revasser, Evil little boys, Ritlina and Anarchic Conceptions, if you do not know anything about the religion do not talk about it.

Ritlina, I disapprove of this I'm Not Saying I Believe In Any Of The Wiccan Stuff that means you know nothing of the religion child. Can you watch how you say things. The TV show Charmed has people that research the Wicca religion. It depends on how view on the Wicca religion.

Unlike everyone, I know something about this Wicca religion thats why I can back it up. If you just do it because you think it is cool, that is not what the Wicca religion is for.

"Wicca/Witchcaft is also known as the 'Old Religion,' since it predates Christianity (the New Religion)."
Buckland, Raymond. (2004). Wicca for One: The Path of Solitary Witchcraft (pg viii) New York, NY: Kensington Publishing Corp.
ISBN 0-5065-2554-1

Also, the first time anyone has written about the Wicca religion was in 1954 by Gerald B. Gardner called Witchcraft Today. The first time a Wicca book was published in the United States was in the 1970's titled Witchcraft From the Inside by Raymond Buckland. Moto the Wise, Revasser, Evil little boys, Ritlina and Anarchic Conceptions, if you do not know anything about the religion do not talk about it.

Ritlina, I disapprove of this I'm Not Saying I Believe In Any Of The Wiccan Stuff that means you know nothing of the religion child. Can you watch how you say things. The TV show Charmed has people that research the Wicca religion. It depends on how view on the Wicca religion.

Unlike everyone, I know something about this Wicca religion thats why I can back it up. If you just do it because you think it is cool, that is not what the Wicca religion is for.

You can't be serious if you think that the shamanisms and naturalisms practiced before the rise of Christianity have anything to do with today's wicca practice. It seems any association whatsoever with something archaic is supposed to imply validity. Even the crazy girl I know who worships Zeus acknowledges that the first people who did were just impressed by lightning.

"Wicca/Witchcaft is also known as the 'Old Religion,' since it predates Christianity (the New Religion)."
Buckland, Raymond. (2004). Wicca for One: The Path of Solitary Witchcraft (pg viii) New York, NY: Kensington Publishing Corp.
ISBN 0-5065-2554-1

Also, the first time anyone has written about the Wicca religion was in 1954 by Gerald B. Gardner called Witchcraft Today. The first time a Wicca book was published in the United States was in the 1970's titled Witchcraft From the Inside by Raymond Buckland. Moto the Wise, Revasser, Evil little boys, Ritlina and Anarchic Conceptions, if you do not know anything about the religion do not talk about it.

Ritlina, I disapprove of this I'm Not Saying I Believe In Any Of The Wiccan Stuff that means you know nothing of the religion child. Can you watch how you say things. The TV show Charmed has people that research the Wicca religion. It depends on how view on the Wicca religion.

Unlike everyone, I know something about this Wicca religion thats why I can back it up. If you just do it because you think it is cool, that is not what the Wicca religion is for.


That book he wrote isnt subject to any sort of scientific peer review, you know.

Its a book of fiction, more or less, with the same historical legitimacy as the bible.

Wicca is almost as old as the atomic bomb. Which is why we call nuclear technology "Old Technology" (wiccan: Oylde Teknawlodgye) and Wicca "New Silliness" (wiccan: Newe Sillieynesse).

day 3 - no Magycckylle Wytcchyse have yet knocked over the cup, which I would like to use to drink more tea, so hurry up.

You can't be serious if you think that the shamanisms and naturalisms practiced before the rise of Christianity have anything to do with today's wicca practice. It seems any association whatsoever with something archaic is supposed to imply validity. Even the crazy girl I know who worships Zeus acknowledges that the first people who did were just impressed by lightning.

Where is your proof? Just because your friend thinks they know something does not make it true. If you have no proof just what you people call the "Bible" does it make it true? Seeing the Bible was written by dominant culture?

Where is your proof? Just because your friend thinks they know something does not make it true. If you have no proof just what you people call the "Bible" does it make it true? Seeing the Bible was written by dominant culture?

I don't recall saying that the Bible was all true, either. I'm going with archaeology here. You start making with the human sacrifices, and I'll start associating you with ancient religions.

Moto the Wise, Revasser, Evil little boys, Ritlina and Anarchic Conceptions, if you do not know anything about the religion do not talk about it.

Hey, what did I do? I was originally standing up for her, and showing that in some other religions that I knew about there were scientific ways of saying what was passed off as mumbo-jumbo; in which case there could be the same in wicca. Latest, I have been asking if Ritlina would show me an example of such powers that she says she has. What have I done wrong?

The last one to say "Wicca IS THE ODLEest RELigION in the WORILD"

Was asked to provide MSs to substantiate this and didnt.

Are you prepared to prove MSs?

"Wicca/Witchcaft is also known as the 'Old Religion,' since it predates Christianity (the New Religion)."
Buckland, Raymond. (2004). Wicca for One: The Path of Solitary Witchcraft (pg viii) New York, NY: Kensington Publishing Corp.
ISBN 0-5065-2554-1


*sighs*

For the most part, I like Wicca, but the claim that it's "The Old Religion" is specious when meant in a literal (as opposed to figurative) sense. The fact that it is a comparitively new religion, based on both old and new ideas, does not in any way invalidate it as a religion. Look, here are some links:

On Wicca as "The Old Religion:

Wicca: For the Rest of Us - The Old Religion (http://wicca.timerift.net/old.html)
Religious Tolerance - History of Wicca (http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_hist.htm)
Satanism and the History of Wicca (http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/pagan/HistoryWicca.html) (Actually Diane Vera's Satanism site, but has a fair amount of info on Wicca too)

Edit: Just to clarify, what is called "Wicca" now is indisputably a 20th century religious movement. Yes, it draws on many pre-Christian ideas, but to call the various ancient sources of these ideas "Wiccan" is dishonest, at best.

"Wicca: What Do You Think?"

Not much. Just another form of self-delusion, IMHO. :(

"Wicca: What Do You Think?"

Not much. Just another form of self-delusion, IMHO. :(


Eutrusca, would you be interested in an "I'm older than wicca" shirt?

And for your information scientiests in the u.s. wont admit essential oils heal either when other counties have. They cant patent them. I know this from a chemist.

If "they can't patent" essential oils for healing in the U.S., it's most likely because (a) they're trying to patent the oils themselves and the oils are already well-known or are already patented elsewhere, (b) they're trying to patent a method of healing and haven't shown any "utility" for the method (for example, they don't have any data showing that the method is useful), (c) they're trying to patent a method of healing that's already been disclosed or patented somewhere else and thus lacks "novelty", or (d) they're trying to patent a method of healing that a skilled artisan in the field would have been led to in view of what's already known and thus is not "unobvious". I'd guess it's probably (b), lack of utility.

Novelty, utility and unobviousness are statutory requirements for patentability. Maybe your chemist friend should get some better advice about patent law.

BTW: I write patents and know what I'm talking about.

Hmm. I just read through this. Well, most of it. :p After reading six pages of volleys, I just skipped right to the end. So if I say something that has already been covered, dealt with, jailed, shot and / or molested, I apologize. Blame it on my lack of patience :D Anyhow, this whole post is aimed for the Against Wiccans.

From what I've read, a lot of you don't believe in Wiccanism. Hey, that's cool. I applaud you for having the courage to say it out loud. Religion and personal beliefs are tricky topics nowadays. But to those of us who do believe (that's right, I said US :P ), even if you are presenting what you believe to be scientific facts that prove us wrong, it's downright rude to do that. Assuming we ripped a mess of wires out of your girlfriends' backs and proclaimed this meant they were robots? The initial evidence would suggest us correct, but the point of the matter is you wouldn't believe us, whether you wanted to or not, because you know otherwise - that she's real flesh and blood just like you. Obscure metaphor, I know, but it conveys my point nicely. It doesn't matter if you think you are correct. It matters what everyone else has to say on the subject. Just because you say something doesn't make it true, and just because you say "there is no scientific proof that Wicca or magick exists" does not mean we are all going to react with "really? whoops, our mistake! wow, what a screwup, sorry y'all." Kindly explain telekinesis. Or telepaths. Or occultists of any description. Say that there's no point in proving they exist because they're ridiculous ideas concocted for or by gullible people and they have no scientific merit if you feel the need to, but that would be skirting the issue. Put your money where your mouth is, gentlemen. Some of you have, and have made quite intriguing arguments, and for this I thank you. Some of you, on the other hand, need to learn to tell the difference between fact and feeling. Simply put, if we still aren't listening to you tell us we are wrong, it's because we don't want to hear it - even if we ARE wrong. Ignorance is bliss gentleman, and if it can get us through our lives happily and we leave them contented and regret-free, then that's all that matters. Quit trying to rain on our parade.

Now, so I don't look like a hypocritical douchebag: I myself am Wiccan. Or at least, I think I am. I have a mostly-Irish family, I have Welsh Druids for ancestors, I follow what Redes I know and I believe in the Mother Goddess and the Goddess of Destruction as opposed to the Christian God and Satan. Chances are I'm way off on the typical Wiccan. That's the point. The typical Wiccan is a stereotype, people. We don't all prance about playing flutes and saying "so mote it be" every fifteen seconds, thank you very much kind sirs, and I don't expect or believe all Christians to use the word heathen in every sentence when addressing an inferior. We're not drawn into a belief by what we think makes sense, but what we feel. Facts can easily be twisted into what we want to hear. That's what the media is for. (And I'm aware that made me sound like a conspiracy nut, but it's true ^_^) I believe in these things because they feel real to me. That's it. I don't need any scientific explanation; indeed I don't want one. Just because I say it doesn't make it true... but there's nothing stopping me from believing in it anyway. It's called faith, a big part of religion these days. You should try it.

And one last thing. I'll not be supplying dates and sources for you. I don't think there is a need to back myself up here, after all - as I hope you have noticed, I have not used one fact or flat statement here; it is purely my own thought and belief. Simply because you don't believe in the same things as me doesn't mean I'm going to try to change your minds.... maybe you should think about that one...

Eutrusca, would you be interested in an "I'm older than wicca" shirt?
Would you be interested in a trout? :p

Would you be interested in a trout? :p


I enjoy trout immensely :D

Really though, wicca's only about 60 years old.

I enjoy trout immensely :D

Really though, wicca's only about 60 years old.
Kewl. Send me one then. :D

A t-shirt, not a trout! :p

Hmm. I just read through this. Well, most of it. :p After reading six pages of volleys, I just skipped right to the end. So if I say something that has already been covered, dealt with, jailed, shot and / or molested, I apologize. Blame it on my lack of patience :D Anyhow, this whole post is aimed for the Against Wiccans.

<snip!>


Hello! Can you please, please, please give everyone an answer on the "Old Religion" thing? I keep saying it and saying it, but I suspect it would carry more clout coming from the mouth (fingers?) of an actual practising Wiccan, rather than just some other guy, regardless of the substantial background knowledge of Wicca I have. What we know as Wicca is a modern construct based on a variety of old ideas, correct?

It's a pretty good encyclopaedia, though I am not sure how reliable it is on some subjects.

Personally, I think it's no different than any other religion - it's an attempt to put some kind of structure on what we see in the world that we don't fully understand and an attempt to soothe ourselves that we are not helpless in the world.

Religion (in general) is a convenient way for those who crave power to claim a higher authority and put themselves into power. People believe what they're being told out of the basic need to be able to explain what they see in the world and because they don't want to feel alone and helpless. That urge to believe is then used by the religious structure to mold the behavior of the followers.

There are so many religions (and subdivisions of the various religions) because so many people crave power and try to attain it.

Once you realize why religion exists, it's easy to see Wicca as just a different way to describe the same things that Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, the Jewish faith, etc.

even if you are presenting what you believe to be scientific facts that prove us wrong, it's downright rude to do that.

Between Wiccans whining and Muslims rioting, I have had it with attempts to insulate certain creeds from the cold winds of logic and the exercise of free speech. If your beliefs can't withstand criticism, or even ridicule, that's on you, not on the critics. No one--NO ONE--has any obligation not to be "rude" or "insensitive," and no one has any right not to be "insulted." With respect to the subject at hand, any belief system that relies solely on "feelings" doesn't deserve to be taken seriously.

And in case you're wondering, as a Catholic Christian I have seen my beliefs take far more abuse and ridicule than silly little girls prancing around naked in the moonlight will ever receive. The difference is, I don't object to anyone expressing an opinion on my beliefs or even attacking them. I can respond with reasoned arguments rather than "I feel it so I'm right :p"

Ignorance is bliss gentleman

You have just provided the most succinct description of Wicca anyone has ever formulated. Congratulations :)

Hello all once more. Ritlina, I wish to propose a challenge that has already been sent to you again. I would be interested in seeing your powers, so I too have a pin wheel set-up. I am currently in an Augsburg dorm room, a college in Minnesota, USA. Can you cause this to tip?

Furthermore, I wonder, are we arguing the validity of Wicca as a religion, or the validity of it as the true religion? Just curious. Also, I would not mind information as to where one can go to get more info on this subject. Thanks.
- Veritas

I think it's what might be called fashionable nonsense (not the original usage of the term, but I think it works for wicca, too).

Didn't the whole wicca phad(sp?) end a few years ago? No doubt there are still practising wiccans, but it's drifted out of the public eye back into obscurity.

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.

Load of nonsense.

There, done.

wicca or witchcraft has been around for centuries.

Hardly, it's a modern fad based around misreadings of "traditional" behaviour. Part of the whole trend of going back to seek supposed mystic rural truths or ancient heritages that followed in the western world after the Industrial Revolution, when a class of sub-romantic dreamers started getting misty eyed and nostalgic for the times when we all lived on a farm with a goat.

"A century" at most.

I'm Not Saying I Believe In Any Of The Wiccan Stuff, I'm Just Saying, It Seems To Make More Sense To Me Then Most Other Religions. And Believe Me, In The Year 2100, America Will Be Mostly Wiccan.

how exactly is it sweeping the nation? i live in nyc... have the weirdest most open minded friends--some of them wiccan and NONE of them think it is sweeping the nation...

...yea its more of a passing fad, like kabbalah and scientology etc...

i mean people still practice it but a good percentage join b/c its popular and it seems perfect to most people and then every drops it...

happens all the time.

why do you think such 'religions' arent gov exempt or listed especifically --at most they are in a big pile called new age...

Wicca is retarded.

"Magick" does not exist, the "goddess" does not exist, Its history is a fiction, its beliefs are laughable, its adherents hypocrites (what percentage of wiccans live any "closer to the earth" than the general population? If you drive a car, or use electricity, you are killing the environment just like everyone else.). I have absolutely no respect for such an aftificial, pointless affectation.

...yea its more of a passing fad, like kabbalah and scientology etc...


The only difference between Wicca, Kabbalah and Scientology is that Kabbalah is actually very.

Though it is completely different than the likes of Madonna and the Kabbalah Center would like you to believe. Their brand is a watered down form of Kabbalah tied with knicker elastic to new age bollocks and good business sense (I may dislike them, but their unfortunate success is undeniable).

"Wicca/Witchcaft is also known as the 'Old Religion,' since it predates Christianity (the New Religion)."
Buckland, Raymond. (2004). Wicca for One: The Path of Solitary Witchcraft (pg viii) New York, NY: Kensington Publishing Corp.
ISBN 0-5065-2554-1

Also, the first time anyone has written about the Wicca religion was in 1954 by Gerald B. Gardner called Witchcraft Today. The first time a Wicca book was published in the United States was in the 1970's titled Witchcraft From the Inside by Raymond Buckland. Moto the Wise, Revasser, Evil little boys, Ritlina and Anarchic Conceptions, if you do not know anything about the religion do not talk about it.

Sorry, your poor grasp of history and ability to use different colours fail to impress me.

All you really need to know about Wicca is that it is a modern syntesis of old beliefs.

Though I find it interesting that no supporters of "Wicca is teh oldest" simply try to assert it its age, yet fail to show any proof it is anything other then a modern invention.

Wicca is retarded.

"Magick" does not exist, the "goddess" does not exist, Its history is a fiction, its beliefs are laughable, its adherents hypocrites (what percentage of wiccans live any "closer to the earth" than the general population? If you drive a car, or use electricity, you are killing the environment just like everyone else.). I have absolutely no respect for such an aftificial, pointless affectation.

Well said!

The point about Wiccans not living any "closer to the earth" than others is especially pertinent.

My further comments:

1) As a few people have already stated, it is practically impossible to regard Wicca as a single phenomenon because of the high number of different traditions and an individual interpretation by it's adherents.
I, for instance, regard Wicca as a SYMBOLIC faith which transfers certain key ideas (which I have formulated in my previous post), not as a faith which actually states that the nature of the universe as depicted in the religion is the ultimate reality.
It's the same way I regard the religion of my own people, Judaism (of which I am no adherent and which I renounce) - the Torah, for instance, cannot be considered a book on the true nature of the world, it is to be understood symbolically.

2) With having that said, I would like a representant of the anti-Wiccan-faction to prove that there have been no casualties among "witches" during the time of the Inquisition. I do agree with the historical fact that an overwhelming majority of the people executed during that period were either denounced Christians, people regarded as "heretics" or adherents of other faiths (such as the remnants of the Sefardim in Spain).
However, prove to me that there were no "witches" - meaning people familiar with traditional healing practices (as opposed to medicine as a science, and, by the way, the majority of those practices DO show a positive effect) and people who incorporated traditions of Pagan origin into their life (perhaps not knowing it themselves) - among those who have been executed.
The statement that "There was no such thing as the Burning Times, and if there was, no witches were persecuted" is not proven to be historically correct and cannot be considered true. It's in some way like saying: "Yeah, there was such a thing as the Holocaust, there were coupla' thousand Jews who got killed and some other queer people as well, but that's all there was to it".

Of course, that depends on how you interpret the term "witch".

3) Wicca is NOT an Old Religion. That is the truth. Neither is Asatru. These faiths belong to the neo-pagan branch: constructed belief systems, however, based on formerly existing pagan religions - and those religions WERE older than the monotheistic faiths. It is more correct to say that Wicca incorporates ideologies of several ancient religons and is a constructed, somewhat artificial, successor to those religions, rather than THE Old Religion.
That does not rob Wicca of it's legitimacy, though. Mind that.

4) Those who fervently advocate science and renounce any spiritual notion: Please prove to me that science is always correct. Just like religion, science is a human construct based on the study of Nature and the environment. Research, and thus science, is conducted by humans, who tend to be erroneous quite often. There has been a high number of mistakes in the scientific areas - such as the geo-centrist position in astronomy, to give one example.
Besides, science DOES advance. Einstein has completely changed the idea of physics with the theory of relativity. Now, the string theory and quantum mechanics completely re-shape the Einsteinian view on physics. Where, I ask you, is your proof that the things which are called "magick" by some, "parapsychological phenomena" by others, will NOT be explained by science in the near or distant future?

Concerning medicine: As I stated before, the majority of traditional healing practices rejected by scientific medicine DO show positive effects. I have experienced that upon myself. They are not a substitute for medicine, but rather an addition - a therapy used in combination with modern medicine.
Those who blindly rely on drugs alone damage their health since they regularly poison their own bodies with chemicals (example of hazardous drugs: the Lipobay brand by the German pharmaceutical corporation Bayer).
In addition to that, science in general does lie deliberately sometimes. For example, during the 1960-ies scientists claimed that tobacco smoke is not hazardous to the human body, although research had proven otherwise - however, those scientists had been payed off by the tobacco industry, namely by Philip Morris. (Source: the highly praised German magazine "Der Spiegel". That is not a tabloid magazine, please take note of that.)

Wicca?

I believe it's been reintroduced, sometime in the 1940s some guy named Gerald....oh, crap...whats-his-face brought it back.

It may or may not have had some alterations to it from it's original abstract blueprint.

But, Salut! to any who practice it.

Tolerance is all I have to add. Isn't that what Christians were desiring when Diocletian was stamping them out?

Gardner is the name. :)

Thank you Israeli Tribes for a powerful set of statements. I would tend to agree with you whole heartedly. I do wish to simply state that these non-traditional medicines may be much more psychological rather than actually spiritually caused, but this will probably be told with time. Well put though, I am in support of your ideas completely.
- Veritas
(And for the one who inquired, I mean exactly Veritas, not the classical quote. I keep it simple, or try to.)

Redsylvania']Wicca?

I believe it's been reintroduced, sometime in the 1940s some guy named Gerald....oh, crap...whats-his-face brought it back.

It may or may not have had some alterations to it from it's original abstract blueprint.

But, Salut! to any who practice it.

Tolerance is all I have to add. Isn't that what Christians were desiring when Diocletian was stamping them out?


Brought it back from the dark recesses of his imagination?

Apparently a lot of it is based on Aleister Crowley's hoodoo.

A good example of his laugh-riot writings is this:

O chi balae
Wa pa malae: ---
Ut! Ut! Ut!
Ge; fu latrai,
Le fu malai
Kut! Hut! Nut!

Al OAI
Rel moai
Ti --- Ti --- Ti!
Wa la pelai
Tu fu latai
Wi, Ni, Bi.

Also thou shalt excite the wheels with the five wounds and the five wounds.
Then thou shalt excite the wheels with the two and the third in the midst; even Saturn and Jupiter, Sun and Moon, Mars and Venus, and Mercury.
Then the five --- and the sixth.
Also the altar shall fume before the master with incense that hath no smoke.
That which is to be denied shall be denied; that which is to be trampled shall be trampled; that which is to be spat upon shall be spat upon.
These things shall be burnt in the outer fire.
Then again the master shall speak as he will soft words, and with music and what else he will bring forward the Victim.
Also he shall slay a young child upon the altar, and the blood shall cover the altar with perfume as of roses.
Then shall the master appear as He should appear --- in His glory.
He shall stretch himself upon the altar, and awake it into life, and into death.
(For so we conceal that life which is beyond.)
The temple shall be darkened, save for the fire and the lamp of the altar.
There shall he kindle a great fire and a devouring.
Also he shall smite the altar with his scourge, and blood shall flow therefrom.


(http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib66.html)

Wicca being so vague, its undoubtable that some Covynnes of Wytccheyes perform "sex magick."

Wikipedia tells us:
One particularly interesting form of ritualistic sex magick is based upon the polyandry concept of one female having sexual relations with two or more males during a single ritual and allowing their semen to mix within her body. The conceptual basis for this ritual is that semen is believed by many to be a most powerful magickal fluid. When mixed with the semen of others, its power increases exponentially.


Particularly interesting indeed!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_magic

"Wicca/Witchcaft is also known as the 'Old Religion,' since it predates Christianity (the New Religion)."
Buckland, Raymond. (2004). Wicca for One: The Path of Solitary Witchcraft (pg viii) New York, NY: Kensington Publishing Corp.
ISBN 0-5065-2554-1

Also, the first time anyone has written about the Wicca religion was in 1954 by Gerald B. Gardner called Witchcraft Today. The first time a Wicca book was published in the United States was in the 1970's titled Witchcraft From the Inside by Raymond Buckland. Moto the Wise, Revasser, Evil little boys, Ritlina and Anarchic Conceptions, if you do not know anything about the religion do not talk about it.

Ritlina, I disapprove of this I'm Not Saying I Believe In Any Of The Wiccan Stuff that means you know nothing of the religion child. Can you watch how you say things. The TV show Charmed has people that research the Wicca religion. It depends on how view on the Wicca religion.

Unlike everyone, I know something about this Wicca religion thats why I can back it up. If you just do it because you think it is cool, that is not what the Wicca religion is for.
Ok, What? I Said That I Don't Believe In Wicca, But I Never Said I Didn't Know What Wicca Is. Just Because I Don't Believe In Something Doesn't Mean I Won't Know About It. Also, To Put Things Straight, I'M A GUY!

Next time use a spoon and not a knife.
No, I Mean The Electromagnetivity Cut My Thumb Open. Not What I Was Focusing It On.

Hello all once more. Ritlina, I wish to propose a challenge that has already been sent to you again. I would be interested in seeing your powers, so I too have a pin wheel set-up. I am currently in an Augsburg dorm room, a college in Minnesota, USA. Can you cause this to tip?

Furthermore, I wonder, are we arguing the validity of Wicca as a religion, or the validity of it as the true religion? Just curious. Also, I would not mind information as to where one can go to get more info on this subject. Thanks.
- Veritas
Hmm... I'll Try. I Might Not Be Able Too, I've Never Tried Using A Phone Line As A Medium For My Bodily Energies. Heck, It Might Kill Me! But I Might Absorb The Electromagnetivity And Other Energies In The Phone Line, Giving Me Even More Energy. If It Doesn't Move, Don't Be Suprised.

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.
How old are you?

Wicca is retarded.

"Magick" does not exist, the "goddess" does not exist, Its history is a fiction, its beliefs are laughable, its adherents hypocrites (what percentage of wiccans live any "closer to the earth" than the general population? If you drive a car, or use electricity, you are killing the environment just like everyone else.). I have absolutely no respect for such an aftificial, pointless affectation.
Ok Dude, Seriously. Please Don't Bash Wicca. If You Don't Believe In It, Don't Bash It, Just Say You Don't Believe In It.

How old are you?
13. Don't Laugh. Some Would Say My Mind Is Considerably Older Than My Body.

My further comments:

1) As a few people have already stated, it is practically impossible to regard Wicca as a single phenomenon because of the high number of different traditions and an individual interpretation by it's adherents.
I, for instance, regard Wicca as a SYMBOLIC faith which transfers certain key ideas (which I have formulated in my previous post), not as a faith which actually states that the nature of the universe as depicted in the religion is the ultimate reality.
It's the same way I regard the religion of my own people, Judaism (of which I am no adherent and which I renounce) - the Torah, for instance, cannot be considered a book on the true nature of the world, it is to be understood symbolically.

2) With having that said, I would like a representant of the anti-Wiccan-faction to prove that there have been no casualties among "witches" during the time of the Inquisition. I do agree with the historical fact that an overwhelming majority of the people executed during that period were either denounced Christians, people regarded as "heretics" or adherents of other faiths (such as the remnants of the Sefardim in Spain).
However, prove to me that there were no "witches" - meaning people familiar with traditional healing practices (as opposed to medicine as a science, and, by the way, the majority of those practices DO show a positive effect) and people who incorporated traditions of Pagan origin into their life (perhaps not knowing it themselves) - among those who have been executed.
The statement that "There was no such thing as the Burning Times, and if there was, no witches were persecuted" is not proven to be historically correct and cannot be considered true. It's in some way like saying: "Yeah, there was such a thing as the Holocaust, there were coupla' thousand Jews who got killed and some other queer people as well, but that's all there was to it".

Of course, that depends on how you interpret the term "witch".

3) Wicca is NOT an Old Religion. That is the truth. Neither is Asatru. These faiths belong to the neo-pagan branch: constructed belief systems, however, based on formerly existing pagan religions - and those religions WERE older than the monotheistic faiths. It is more correct to say that Wicca incorporates ideologies of several ancient religons and is a constructed, somewhat artificial, successor to those religions, rather than THE Old Religion.
That does not rob Wicca of it's legitimacy, though. Mind that.

4) Those who fervently advocate science and renounce any spiritual notion: Please prove to me that science is always correct. Just like religion, science is a human construct based on the study of Nature and the environment. Research, and thus science, is conducted by humans, who tend to be erroneous quite often. There has been a high number of mistakes in the scientific areas - such as the geo-centrist position in astronomy, to give one example.
Besides, science DOES advance. Einstein has completely changed the idea of physics with the theory of relativity. Now, the string theory and quantum mechanics completely re-shape the Einsteinian view on physics. Where, I ask you, is your proof that the things which are called "magick" by some, "parapsychological phenomena" by others, will NOT be explained by science in the near or distant future?

Concerning medicine: As I stated before, the majority of traditional healing practices rejected by scientific medicine DO show positive effects. I have experienced that upon myself. They are not a substitute for medicine, but rather an addition - a therapy used in combination with modern medicine.
Those who blindly rely on drugs alone damage their health since they regularly poison their own bodies with chemicals (example of hazardous drugs: the Lipobay brand by the German pharmaceutical corporation Bayer).
In addition to that, science in general does lie deliberately sometimes. For example, during the 1960-ies scientists claimed that tobacco smoke is not hazardous to the human body, although research had proven otherwise - however, those scientists had been payed off by the tobacco industry, namely by Philip Morris. (Source: the highly praised German magazine "Der Spiegel". That is not a tabloid magazine, please take note of that.)
This post hurts my brain.

I'm Not Saying I Believe In Any Of The Wiccan Stuff, I'm Just Saying, It Seems To Make More Sense To Me Then Most Other Religions. And Believe Me, In The Year 2100, America Will Be Mostly Wiccan.


Umm no that is incorrect..the majority of the world will instead be Islamic! Islam is the fastest growing religion. Good Lord are you that ignorant about world religions?

This post hurts my brain.

Would you please be so kind to explain why? If you simply state that my post hurts your brain without giving a reasonable explanation why it does so, I perceive this as a superiority of my argumentation to yours. Thanks.

Umm no that is incorrect..the majority of the world will instead be Islamic! Islam is the fastest growing religion. Good Lord are you that ignorant about world religions?
No, Islam Is The Fastest Growing Religion In Third World Countries. It Appeals To Them For Some Reason. And Now I Doubt That Wicca Will Grow. Too Many People Will See The Stereotype Wicca And Decide "Hell No!"

Wicca being so vague, its undoubtable that some Covynnes of Wytccheyes perform "sex magick."

Wikipedia tells us:
One particularly interesting form of ritualistic sex magick is based upon the polyandry concept of one female having sexual relations with two or more males during a single ritual and allowing their semen to mix within her body. The conceptual basis for this ritual is that semen is believed by many to be a most powerful magickal fluid. When mixed with the semen of others, its power increases exponentially.


Particularly interesting indeed!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_magic

Very sick and perverted.. far from being "interesting". Fornication (sex outside of marriage) is sinful.. especially with more then one person. That sounds like a stupid excuse to just have sex with multiple people at one time to me. :rolleyes:

Very sick and perverted.. far from being "interesting". Fornication (sex outside of marriage) is sinful.. especially with more then one person. That sounds like a stupid excuse to just have sex with multiple people at one time to me. :rolleyes:
Ehh, Both New Granada And Wikipedia Tend To Lie To Get People To Hate Something. I Don't Know If There ARE Sex Rituals In Wicca. I Doubt It Though. Why Not Ask One Of Our Resident Wiccans? Leafiana?

There are also normal people, who aren't Wiccan or pagan at all, who do that and come up with a stupid excuse for it.

No, Islam Is The Fastest Growing Religion In Third World Countries. It Appeals To Them For Some Reason. And Now I Doubt That Wicca Will Grow. Too Many People Will See The Stereotype Wicca And Decide "Hell No!"

No I took a World Religions class in college and Islam is THE fastest growing religion in the WHOLE world, especially in the USA, or have you failed to notice all the Muslim African-Americans? It just doesn't seem like it right now because of the racial profiling and the "War on Terror". Americans have this misconception that they're all located and growing in popularity in the Middle East. Trust me I went to a high school for International Studies and I had many, many muslim friends that were born in this country, not third-world countries like you mentioned.

No I took a World Religions class in college and Islam is THE fastest growing religion in the WHOLE world, especially in the USA, or have you failed to notice all the Muslim African-Americans? It just doesn't seem like it right now because of the racial profiling and the "War on Terror". Americans have this misconception that they're all located and growing in popularity in the Middle East. Trust me I went to a high school for International Studies and I had many, many muslim friends that were born in this country, not third-world countries like you mentioned.
Ehh, I Notice Alot Of African-Americans Tend To Turn Islam When They Have A Long Term In Prison To Serve. No Racism Meant. Ok Guys, I Have To Go For A Hair Cut. Remeber, KEEP THIS THREAD ALIVE!

No, Islam Is The Fastest Growing Religion In Third World Countries. It Appeals To Them For Some Reason.

And where do most of the world live?

Ehh, Both New Granada And Wikipedia Tend To Lie To Get People To Hate Something. I Don't Know If There ARE Sex Rituals In Wicca. I Doubt It Though. Why Not Ask One Of Our Resident Wiccans? Leafiana?

In fact there are "sex rituals" in Wicca, the Great Rite being one of them. Sexual magic has its origins in the Eastern tradition of Tantra. It has been a part of esoteric practices of many peoples for long. Thus, it is in no way an "excuse for fornication." Whether the desired effect is achieved is a different question...

I don't see why fornication for pleasure should be sinful, by the way, as long as it is consensual, i.e. not a rape, and as long as contraceptives are used in order to prevent abortion (which I abhor). Polygamy, of course, is another issue, but then, the practices of tantra and sex magic cannot be considered polygamy.

Still waiting for the one whose brain hurts to reply to my post.

Ehh, Both New Granada And Wikipedia Tend To Lie To Get People To Hate Something. I Don't Know If There ARE Sex Rituals In Wicca. I Doubt It Though. Why Not Ask One Of Our Resident Wiccans? Leafiana?


Stop flaming people on the forum.

I resent the slander of being called a habitual liar and insist you substantiate it or apologize.

While definitely not supporting Ritlinas behaviour, which I myself find to be quite disruptive, I'd like to kindly remind you that your own wording is not better at times.

Stop flaming people on the forum.

I resent the slander of being called a habitual liar and insist you substantiate it or apologize.
Umm... Can Someone Tell Me How That Was Flaming? But I Do Apologize, But I Was Just Making A Point That I Don't Believe There Are Sex Rituals In Wicca, Which, If Israeli Tribes Speaks Truthfully, Was Incorrect. I Was Using You As A Scapegoat, Since I Don't Exactly Like You That Much.

I Have To Go For A Hair Cut
It's Absolutely Dreadful. If I Shake My Head, Hair Doesn't Go Flying Everywhere Anymore! God Damnit!

And where do most of the world live?
True, True.

Where'd Everyone Go? ECHO! ECHo! ECho! Echo! echo! ech! ec! e! !

I think its a joke

As the buddhist boyfriend of a wiccan, I can say that it is nothing but a positive religion. No inherent violence like that Christianity or Islam crap. The Law of Threefold is something we should all ascribe to.

Is This Thread Dieing? If It Is, GET THE REFILBRELATOR! (Spelling?)

That'd be a defibrilator.

Wiccan girlfriend is also a nurse >.<

Hmm, interesting...

Anyhow, I do believe that Wicca IS one of the oldest religions, in one form or another. Wicca is rather eclectic, after all. It borrows from nearly everything. And the interesting part is, a lot of it is true (or seems so to me).

Now then, just for the record, I'm a seventeen year-old male. According to everyone equipped adequately to tell, I have an old soul, whatever in Tyr's name that means. My belief is very eclectic, but that's me for you. ^_^

Now then. Would the douche who insulted magick and the Goddess(es) please step forward? Might I point out that so far not one of us has called God a faggot, or Buddah a donkeylicker, or otherwise openly mocked YOUR personal beliefs? Show some courtesy, pal.

Also, yes, we use modern technology. Big deal. Just because we worship the earth doesn't mean we're fanatical environmentalists. (Or at least, I'm not :p ) The earth IS here for us, after all. We're the ones in charge of looking after it, even if we ARE failing miserably. If you know what you're doing and try to help even a little, that's enough because all of the little things add up. I'll be catching a plane to travel to Japan; as opposed to swimming the Pacific just to adhere to a stereotype and booster your already oversize ego.

Finally, we will not, repeat, not, perform magic tricks for you. Go watch Fox8, there are trained illusionists for your entertainment there. Those of us who know how to and are able to utilize our abilities do not abuse the privilege for petty thrills. On top of that, if it was all so easy, don't you think the armies of the world would be filled with hired wizards or something?

Anyone wanting to discuss this with me, pro or against Wicca, is more than welcome to email me at bewaretheblackcat@hotmail.com as I would like to take this further. Like learning why most of you continue to insult us instead of actually backing up your arguments.

Anyhow, I do believe that Wicca IS one of the oldest religions, in one form or another.

Well - You'd be wrong, and demonstatably so.

Would the douche who insulted magick and the Goddess(es) please step forward? Might I point out that so far not one of us has called God a faggot, or Buddah a donkeylicker, or otherwise openly mocked YOUR personal beliefs? Show some courtesy, pal.

Well, I don't think I am the 'douche' in question, but feel free to mock my personal beliefs. You may be hard pressed to find them though, since I have none. Unless you also include tastes, but I used to people insulting them, so you can do that.

Oh yeah, calling someone a 'douche' is hardly very courteous is it mate?

Finally, we will not, repeat, not, perform magic tricks for you. Go watch Fox8, there are trained illusionists for your entertainment there. Those of us who know how to and are able to utilize our abilities do not abuse the privilege for petty thrills. On top of that, if it was all so easy, don't you think the armies of the world would be filled with hired wizards or something?

I think the idea was for the arguement to be solved by Ritlina giving us proof of her powers. I can't see what is the problem with that? She gets an ego boost, we get our proof, everyone is happy! Also, her discription of it is different to the majority of people who experiment in this manner (for example the trend seems to be that distance makes no difference). I am interested in the more unusual aspects of the mind and so I for one would be deeply interested in any 'magic tricks' you would agree to perform, in the interests of getting proof for Ritlina's statement.

Now then. Would the douche who insulted magick and the Goddess(es) please step forward? Might I point out that so far not one of us has called God a faggot, or Buddah a donkeylicker, or otherwise openly mocked YOUR personal beliefs? Show some courtesy, pal.




Stop flaming people on the forum.

If you would have us believe in the hoodoo of Magic"K" then by all means, knock my cup over and win the prize.

What is a "goddess(es)" and who has insulted it? What, as it were, is a "donkey licker" ?

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.

I hate it with a passion. It steals from Pagan religions and Christianity without giving any due credit, and some of its adherents claim it's an ancient Pagan sect. In addition..the Goddess they worship is Morrigan..a war goddess. One who wouldn't abide by the amount of fluffiness in Wicca.

It bothers me even more that because it's the most vocal of the pseudo Pagan religions, people believe that it represents the Pagan belief-systems, when it's pretty much on its own.

I think the idea was for the arguement to be solved by Ritlina giving us proof of her powers. I can't see what is the problem with that? She gets an ego boost, we get our proof, everyone is happy! Also, her discription of it is different to the majority of people who experiment in this manner (for example the trend seems to be that distance makes no difference). I am interested in the more unusual aspects of the mind and so I for one would be deeply interested in any 'magic tricks' you would agree to perform, in the interests of getting proof for Ritlina's statement.
I'm A He God Damnit! I'd Like To Know What Happened To Anarchic Conceptions. I Haven't Seen Him Lately, And He's The Only One I Can Have A Good Debate With On This Subject Or Branching Subjects. Now Then, I DON'T Want New Granada Or Lacadaemon To Come Back. But Seriously, Maybe I Can Make A Video Using My Webcam? Tell Me If You Would Believe Me, Or Just Think I Used Special FX.

I hate it with a passion. It steals from Pagan religions and Christianity without giving any due credit, and some of its adherents claim it's an ancient Pagan sect. In addition..the Goddess they worship is Morrigan..a war goddess. One who wouldn't abide by the amount of fluffiness in Wicca.

It bothers me even more that because it's the most vocal of the pseudo Pagan religions, people believe that it represents the Pagan belief-systems, when it's pretty much on its own.
Ok... I'm Not Even Going To Say ANYTHING About This Post.

I'm A He God Damnit! I'd Like To Know What Happened To Anarchic Conceptions. I Haven't Seen Him Lately, And He's The Only One I Can Have A Good Debate With On This Subject Or Branching Subjects.

I'm touched

But Seriously, Maybe I Can Make A Video Using My Webcam? Tell Me If You Would Believe Me, Or Just Think I Used Special FX.

It would certainly make interesting viewing.

I am interested in the more unusual aspects of the mind and so I for one would be deeply interested in any 'magic tricks' you would agree to perform, in the interests of getting proof for Ritlina's statement.
I can do some pretty hot magick myself.
One of my best tricks, is matter transferance: the matter that makes up your wallet is transfered from your pocket to mine, and then the matter that makes up my body runs off very quickly.

Hmm, interesting...

Anyhow, I do believe that Wicca IS one of the oldest religions, in one form or another. Wicca is rather eclectic, after all. It borrows from nearly everything. And the interesting part is, a lot of it is true (or seems so to me).

Now then, just for the record, I'm a seventeen year-old male. According to everyone equipped adequately to tell, I have an old soul, whatever in Tyr's name that means. My belief is very eclectic, but that's me for you. ^_^

Now then. Would the douche who insulted magick and the Goddess(es) please step forward? Might I point out that so far not one of us has called God a faggot, or Buddah a donkeylicker, or otherwise openly mocked YOUR personal beliefs? Show some courtesy, pal.

Also, yes, we use modern technology. Big deal. Just because we worship the earth doesn't mean we're fanatical environmentalists. (Or at least, I'm not :p ) The earth IS here for us, after all. We're the ones in charge of looking after it, even if we ARE failing miserably. If you know what you're doing and try to help even a little, that's enough because all of the little things add up. I'll be catching a plane to travel to Japan; as opposed to swimming the Pacific just to adhere to a stereotype and booster your already oversize ego.

Finally, we will not, repeat, not, perform magic tricks for you. Go watch Fox8, there are trained illusionists for your entertainment there. Those of us who know how to and are able to utilize our abilities do not abuse the privilege for petty thrills. On top of that, if it was all so easy, don't you think the armies of the world would be filled with hired wizards or something?

Anyone wanting to discuss this with me, pro or against Wicca, is more than welcome to email me at bewaretheblackcat@hotmail.com as I would like to take this further. Like learning why most of you continue to insult us instead of actually backing up your arguments.

That would be me, and I stand by my remarks. Feel free to insult God, buddah, allah, whatever you please. They don't exist either. Anyway, my assertion that your gods don't exist isn't really an insult, its a fact.

Isn't "worshiiping the earth" kind of a hollow guesture if your actions don't bear it out?

And finally, don't pretend that you have magical powers, but for various reasons won't or can't show them. You aren't fooling anyone, and if you are fooling yourself, then you are more screwed up than I expected.

I just think you and your ilk read a bit too much mythology as children.

That would be me, and I stand by my remarks. Feel free to insult God, buddah, allah, whatever you please. They don't exist either. Anyway, my assertion that your gods don't exist isn't really an insult, its a fact.

Isn't "worshiiping the earth" kind of a hollow guesture if your actions don't bear it out?

And finally, don't pretend that you have magical powers, but for various reasons won't or can't show them. You aren't fooling anyone, and if you are fooling yourself, then you are more screwed up than I expected.

I just think you and your ilk read a bit too much mythology as children.

You're making the arrogant assumption that they don't exist.

An arrogance that smacks of the same arrogance in Islam that bore Osama bin Laden. An arrogance of the same species as that which in Christianity bred Witch-hunters and the Inquisition.

You're making the arrogant assumption that they don't exist.

An arrogance that smacks of the same arrogance in Islam that bore Osama bin Laden. An arrogance of the same species as that which in Christianity bred Witch-hunters and the Inquisition.


Wow... I guess being an atheist makes me kind of like hitler too, huh? :p

Actually, now that you mention it, all those people believed in gods didn't they?

Show me some proof they exist, and disprove my "arrogant assumption", and I'll convert to wicca, islam, or whatever you please.

That would be me, and I stand by my remarks. Feel free to insult God, buddah, allah, whatever you please. They don't exist either. Anyway, my assertion that your gods don't exist isn't really an insult, its a fact.

Isn't "worshiiping the earth" kind of a hollow guesture if your actions don't bear it out?

And finally, don't pretend that you have magical powers, but for various reasons won't or can't show them. You aren't fooling anyone, and if you are fooling yourself, then you are more screwed up than I expected.

I just think you and your ilk read a bit too much mythology as children.

Don't forget he's the boy who believes that "ignorance is bliss" (post #432), which pretty much says it all when it comes to Wicca. :) :) :)

Wow... I guess being an atheist makes me kind of like hitler too, huh? :p

Actually, now that you mention it, all those people believed in gods didn't they?

Show me some proof they exist, and disprove my "arrogant assumption", and I'll convert to wicca, islam, or whatever you please.

Show me proof they don't exist and I'll 'convert' to Atheism.

The simple fact is that we do not and cannot know everything about the universe. It is, therefore, entirely possible, if implausible, that such beings exist. Saying that they do not exist for a fact is very, very arrogant, given what we do know about the universe and what we know we don't know about the universe.

And for the record, Stalin, who killed twice as many people as Hitler, was an Atheist. Many of his killings were motivated by the 'religion' of Atheism.

Show me proof they don't exist and I'll 'convert' to Atheism.

The simple fact is that we do not and cannot know everything about the universe. It is, therefore, entirely possible, if implausible, that such beings exist. Saying that they do not exist for a fact is very, very arrogant, given what we do know about the universe and what we know we don't know about the universe.


The onus is on the believer to provide evidence, after all extraordinary claims (such as the existence of all-powerful, supernatural antropomorphic beings or magical powers) require extraordinary proof.

Anyway, The fact that the james randi prize of 1 million dollars offered to the first person who can prove the supernatural remains unclaimed goes a long way toward refuting the existence of magical powers.

as for gods, Since gods are invisible, and the universe is no different than if they did not exist, it is simpler to assume they do not exist (see Occam's Razor).

its very stupid. how do people not realize that theyre not witches?

fucken idiots

in today's age, there are books in the public libraries about how to be a better withc. what the hell has this world come to?

And for the record, Stalin, who killed twice as many people as Hitler, was an Atheist. Many of his killings were motivated by the 'religion' of Atheism.

Atheism is not a religion. It has no cosmology of its own, it shares one with science. It is defined by an absence of superstitious belief.

an analogy;

Health is to disease what atheism is to religion.