NationStates Jolt Archive

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.

It's a deliberate self-delusion. There isn't even the excuse of indoctrination as with other religions.

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.
wicca or witchcraft has been around for centuries.

wicca or witchcraft has been around for centuries.
Yes, But Now It Is Sweeping The U.S. And Britian (I Think).

Yes, But Now It Is Sweeping The U.S. And Britian (I Think).
Hardly "sweeping".

How do you reconcile Wiccan beliefs with your atheism?

Wicca is a reinvention of older stuff, but it is not old itself.

Hardly "sweeping".

How do you reconcile Wiccan beliefs with your atheism?
I'm Not Saying I Believe In Any Of The Wiccan Stuff, I'm Just Saying, It Seems To Make More Sense To Me Then Most Other Religions. And Believe Me, In The Year 2100, America Will Be Mostly Wiccan.

load of toss.

sweeping america maybe - can stay out of the UK, thanks.
we have our fair share of pagans (proper ancient celtic druds and the like) but liking a "religion" because its cool is stupid. religion is kinda stupid anyway (imho) and actively going 'ooh i'm not spiritual enough so i should go believe in some made up BS' is frankly pretty pathetic imho.
religion is not needed in modern life, and subscribing to a "new religion" because its 'cool' and they all did it in buffy the vampire slayer is sad...

i'm feeling bitter today :p

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.

The "wicca" 12 year old girls practice, often by either wearing lots of black clothes and make-up or religiously following every episode of "charmed" is quite cute. With a little luck the grls will still dress like that when adults - and yes, I have a weakness for the "Goth" look ;)
It is not a serious religion though.

The wicca more serious people practice in covens, often 18+, is different. I consider the thoughts on "magic", "energyflows" etc silly - but I do like some of the moral concepts like the threefold law. I also like the fact they have a minimal age requirement - I dislike the "a [insert faith here] the moment dad came" mentality so many other religions have.

The thing people call wicca, but is in fact an excuse to have wild orgies and molest chickens - as well as what most Christians claim wicca is all about - I dislike.

Wicca may be growing but has it ever been recognized as a religion?

Now, Asatru or heathenism, which is from the Viking Religion, is recognized by Norway, Denmark and Iceland. Now that's a religion.

Hey People, Don't Misread Me. I'm Not Saying I Like It. It Just Seems Like The Religion I Would Choose If I Couldn't Be Athiest. And Ok, So It's Not Really So Much A Religion, But It Still Is Widely Spreading.

The "wicca" 12 year old girls practice, often by either wearing lots of black clothes and make-up or religiously following every episode of "charmed" is quite cute. With a little luck the grls will still dress like that when adults - and yes, I have a weakness for the "Goth" look ;)
It is not a serious religion though.

The wicca more serious people practice in covens, often 18+, is different. I consider the thoughts on "magic", "energyflows" etc silly - but I do like some of the moral concepts like the threefold law. I also like the fact they have a minimal age requirement - I dislike the "a [insert faith here] the moment dad came" mentality so many other religions have.

The thing people call wicca, but is in fact an excuse to have wild orgies and molest chickens - as well as what most Christians claim wicca is all about - I dislike.
Ugh, Have You Even Done Your Homework On Wicca? I Doubt It. Research It A Little. It Seems Pretty Sensible Compared To What Most Other Religions Seem Like.

first wicca in not new
two if it help go for it

wallace

Seeing adult "witches" kinda makes me sad.. I've only met a couple, and heard of a few, but the idea that anyone still buys that stuff past the age of fourteen or so is just sad in general.

Wicca may be growing but has it ever been recognized as a religion?

Now, Asatru or heathenism, which is from the Viking Religion, is recognized by Norway, Denmark and Iceland. Now that's a religion.
And Yes, It Is Recognized As A Religion.

Hey People, Don't Misread Me. I'm Not Saying I Like It. It Just Seems Like The Religion I Would Choose If I Couldn't Be Athiest. And Ok, So It's Not Really So Much A Religion, But It Still Is Widely Spreading.

Just a quick digression: why do you start every word with a capital?

Ugh, Have You Even Done Your Homework On Wicca? I Doubt It. Research It A Little. It Seems Pretty Sensible Compared To What Most Other Religions Seem Like.

Sure have. As for your argument as to why you should follow it, well, if "everyone is doing it in 2100" then it "must" be right.

Appeal to majority...

Ugh, Now I'm Not Feeling Like Making This Thread Was A Good Idea. Maybe You All Should Research Wicca A Little More. It's Very Interesting, And Isn't All About So Called "Witch-Craft" And "Magic". Don't Say Something About Something If You Don't Know The Facts, People.

Just a quick digression: why do you start every word with a capital?
Because I Want To.

(What is it with you and the caps key? It's unnatural. :))

In my view, Wicca is a religon kids pick to irritate their parents. Given that, I know grown adults who practice it and know less about their chosen path than I do. When I've had to explain when Samhain is, or why "the burning times" were a literary conceit and not reality.... *sigh*

Ugh, Have You Even Done Your Homework On Wicca? I Doubt It. Research It A Little. It Seems Pretty Sensible Compared To What Most Other Religions Seem Like.

Yes - check the middle paragraph again. I call several of *those* wiccans friends. Problem is that lots of people claim to be wiccan, but have a very, very different idea of what it is.

I consider the thoughts on "magic", "energyflows" etc silly
quite. if you have a rudimentary grasp of biology or physics, you know its BS.

"but some things can't be explained by science!" comes the reply
well go on, open yourself up and cut out your 4th chakra... go on, put it in a jar and show me this mysterious energy. :rolleyes:
(yeah i know chakras aren't "wicca" but still, the principle is the same)

Ok, I Seriously Feel Like Locking This Thread, Because I'm Pissed That People Are Saying Stuff Without Researching What They're Talking About.

Hey People, Don't Misread Me. I'm Not Saying I Like It. It Just Seems Like The Religion I Would Choose If I Couldn't Be Athiest. And Ok, So It's Not Really So Much A Religion, But It Still Is Widely Spreading.
You are young yet with much more life to experience. There are many paths before you and after reading your above post, I can sense your confusion.

I travelled down many paths before I found the one that was best for me. Someday, you will find the one that is best for you.

I have seen no indication that Wicca is sweeping the US or any other country. Actually, it appears to be much less popular today than it was just a few years ago.

Like healing crystals, astrology, past life experiences, and all the other new age stuff that has come and gone throughout the years, its just another fad that will pass (and perhaps has already started passing). I expect that 10 years from now it will be about as popular as all the other New Age things. Theyll have a few books in one isle of the bookstore and many people will dabble but few will truly believe.

You are young yet with much more life to experience. There are many paths before you and after reading your above post, I can sense your confusion.

I travelled down many paths before I found the one that was best for me. Someday, you will find the one that is best for you.
Wow, Someone Besides Me ISN'T Beating Up On Wicca! I Give You A Cookie!

Ok, I Seriously Feel Like Locking This Thread, Because I'm Pissed That People Are Saying Stuff Without Researching What They're Talking About.

Then please tell us which of the 78234 different versions of wicca *you* are referring to.

Ok, I Seriously Feel Like Locking This Thread, Because I'm Pissed That People Are Saying Stuff Without Researching What They're Talking About.

You do know that there are literally an infinite number of "Wiccan" beliefs, a good number of which are nothing more than fantasy-inspired social clubs?

You need to do more research to realize that an attack against those groups is not an attack against the whole.

Eh, I have a friend whos Wiccan, I don't understand it myself, and I really don't want to, but, if it makes her happy then it gets a thumbs up for me. All of my friends and myself have a certain understanding that we believe what we want to believe, and that we do not infringe on anyone else's religion. Religious debate is strictly forbidden in my circle of friends.

Ugh, Now I'm Not Feeling Like Making This Thread Was A Good Idea. Maybe You All Should Research Wicca A Little More. It's Very Interesting, And Isn't All About So Called "Witch-Craft" And "Magic". Don't Say Something About Something If You Don't Know The Facts, People.
You asked people for their opinions, and you should be prepared to take them, whether you agree with them or not.

You asked people for their opinions, and you should be prepared to take them, whether you agree with them or not.

It's a newb - they're not used to the idea that people like you and I disagree all the time.

Kimichi, Seriously, I Realize People Will Disagree With Me. I Just Don't Like It When People Don't Do Their Homework On A Topic They're Researching.

Kimichi, Seriously, I Realize People Will Disagree With Me. I Just Don't Like It When People Don't Do Their Homework On A Topic They're Researching.
And yet you assert I haven't done my homework.

You made the first assertions.

It's up to you to provide a link to a source that backs them up.

Let's start with your first assertion, that Wicca is spreading fast in the US and UK, and will be the dominant religion by 2100.

Give us a link to a credible source.

my ex girlfriend is a wiccan. it annoyed me, but she was bisexual too so that made up for it... :P

Kimichi, Seriously, I Realize People Will Disagree With Me. I Just Don't Like It When People Don't Do Their Homework On A Topic They're Researching.

Prove I haven't then. I gave examples of three distinctly different things which all call themselves wicca. You sofar have given no examples of what *you* are talking about.

And yet you assert I haven't done my homework.

You made the first assertions.

It's up to you to provide a link to a source that backs them up.

Let's start with your first assertion, that Wicca is spreading fast in the US and UK, and will be the dominant religion by 2100.

Give us a link to a credible source.
Credible? Ha! I Doubt Anything In This World Is "Credible". Just Look At The News On Wicca. It IS Growing Fast. I Believe That When Christianity Started, No One Believed It Would Be A Dominant Religion, In Fact, Some People Gave Arguments Against Christianity Like Some Of The Arguments You Are Giving Against Wicca.

Credible? Ha! I Doubt Anything In This World Is "Credible". Just Look At The News On Wicca. It IS Growing Fast. I Believe That When Christianity Started, No One Believed It Would Be A Dominant Religion, In Fact, Some People Gave Arguments Against Christianity Like Some Of The Arguments You Are Giving Against Wicca.

So, you don't have any evidence. Okay then.

It's a newb - they're not used to the idea that people like you and I disagree all the time.
Yes, I do understand that fact. However, I might add, that I don't always disagree with everything you say either.

It IS Growing Fast.
i have never seen anything to back this up bar your word (and the occasional utterance of other people on here in the past)

Credible? Ha! I Doubt Anything In This World Is "Credible". Just Look At The News On Wicca. It IS Growing Fast. I Believe That When Christianity Started, No One Believed It Would Be A Dominant Religion, In Fact, Some People Gave Arguments Against Christianity Like Some Of The Arguments You Are Giving Against Wicca.

The standard on NS General for argument is that

a. you have links to some evidence
b. you make a logical argument based on that evidence that contains no fallacies.

You're doing very poorly so far.

quite. if you have a rudimentary grasp of biology or physics, you know its BS.

"but some things can't be explained by science!" comes the reply
well go on, open yourself up and cut out your 4th chakra... go on, put it in a jar and show me this mysterious energy. :rolleyes:
(yeah i know chakras aren't "wicca" but still, the principle is the same)

Achually it isn't. There is an energy flow thoughout our body constantly, formed within it are our nerve impulses, and the like. Some of early eastern science used it in a similar way to accupuncture, and that technique has been modifyed and is used by some as what is called accupressure; the manipulation of the bodies function and your mental state based on manipulating the body in certain pressure points, which some call the chakra (I believe, I have heard them refered to as such). They are considered pools for this energy that is scientifically proven to exist (although the effect of its manipulation is not yet scientifically proven).

BTW, a rudimentary grasp of biology or physics is harmful to the search of more complex information, as much of the simpiler stuff you are taught is schools is a gross over simplification, as well as often being out of date.

As for Wicca staying out of the UK ... most extant Wiccans actually practice good "British" Wicca LOL. Gerald Gardner ( an Englishman ) was one of the first great popularisers of Wicca, one of the first to openly declare his faith, and is regarded by many ( but not all ) Wiccans as the modern founder of the Craft. Many Wiccans around the world follow some variation on teachings he popularised.

On the subject of the spread of Wicca ... I don't think Wiccans will every take over the world, because they don't want to :) In the main they don't proselytize ( there are exceptions to every rule ... after all authors want to sell books LOL ).

My only advice Ritlina is that it's popularity ( or lack thereof ) is the silliest possible to join any religion. :) If you are curious, many groups run beginners workshops designed to give you an insight into Wicca without pressuring you or requiring a comittment to join in advance. Any group who does want you to "sign on the dotted line" right away are probably less genuinely interested in your spiritual development, especially if they give you a list of books you just have to buy before you can be a real witch :rolleyes:

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.

It's a bunch of nonsense, quite frankly. Spend your time on something more productive.

my ex girlfriend is a wiccan. it annoyed me, but she was bisexual too so that made up for it... :P

I think most are, at least the women. Not quite sure why.

I think most are, at least the women. Not quite sure why.

i see... wicca gets my wholehearted support.

Ok Then, Since I Can't Give You "Credible" Evidence Wicca Is Growing, Give Me "Credible" Evidence That It Isn't Growing.

Ok Then, Since I Can't Give You "Credible" Evidence Wicca Is Growing, Give Me "Credible" Evidence That It Isn't Growing.

No, it's on you to prove the assertion you made, since you made it first.

We aren't required to prove a negative.

Ugh, Now I'm Not Feeling Like Making This Thread Was A Good Idea. Maybe You All Should Research Wicca A Little More. It's Very Interesting, And Isn't All About So Called "Witch-Craft" And "Magic". Don't Say Something About Something If You Don't Know The Facts, People.
Haha. If you ask for what people think, you should be prepared to hear what they think.

:)

Well, I've Got To Go To School, So I'll See You All Later. And I Hope You Do Your Research Over That Time...

Achually it isn't. There is an energy flow thoughout our body constantly, formed within it are our nerve impulses, and the like. Some of early eastern science used it in a similar way to accupuncture, and that technique has been modifyed and is used by some as what is called accupressure; the manipulation of the bodies function and your mental state based on manipulating the body in certain pressure points, which some call the chakra (I believe, I have heard them refered to as such). They are considered pools for this energy that is scientifically proven to exist (although the effect of its manipulation is not yet scientifically proven).

BTW, a rudimentary grasp of biology or physics is harmful to the search of more complex information, as much of the simpiler stuff you are taught is schools is a gross over simplification, as well as often being out of date.

Really? pools of energy have been proven to scientifically exist? Then I wonder why the National Council Against Health Fraud has found the following:

1. Acupuncture is an unproven modality of treatment;
2. Its theory and practice are based on primitive and fanciful concepts of health and disease that bear no relationship to present scientific knowledge;
3. Research during the past twenty years has failed to demonstrate that acupuncture is effective against any disease;
4. Perceived effects of acupuncture are probably due to a combination of expectation, suggestion, counter- irritation, operant conditioning, and other psychological mechanisms;
5. The use of acupuncture should be restricted to appropriate research settings;
6. Insurance companies should not be required by law to cover acupuncture treatment; and
7. Licensure of lay acupuncturists should be phased out.

http://www.ncahf.org/pp/acu.html

Achually it isn't. There is an energy flow thoughout our body constantly, formed within it are our nerve impulses, and the like. Some of early eastern science used it in a similar way to accupuncture, and that technique has been modifyed and is used by some as what is called accupressure; the manipulation of the bodies function and your mental state based on manipulating the body in certain pressure points, which some call the chakra (I believe, I have heard them refered to as such). They are considered pools for this energy that is scientifically proven to exist (although the effect of its manipulation is not yet scientifically proven).

BTW, a rudimentary grasp of biology or physics is harmful to the search of more complex information, as much of the simpiler stuff you are taught is schools is a gross over simplification, as well as often being out of date.
i can see how manipulating certain specific parts of the body may produce chemical or electrochemical changes, which could then translate to the brain and change your mental state by affecting certain neurotransmitters for example. that is not to say, however, there is anything spiritual about them, nor can these areas really be called (so vaguely) 'pools of energy'
for a start is a bad use of the word energy...

and that is true. i've only done biology/chemistry/physics to a-level but i do know they went back on a lot of the stuff they told us at GCSE or before (made it all the more interesting :))

Wicca, like several 'religions' out there (Jedi, Star Trek, Buddism in some degrees, there are different Philosphys cant think of any more off the top of my head) are religions which dont take the current, 'norm' - Monotheism as being the end all and be all of religion.

They are in my opinion not religions but spiritual guides or Philosphies for life, I can understand why and how people choose to adopt a religion that isnt a religion as such.
Maybe they are rebelling, thats possible however for those who are serious about their 'religion' i think its more of a set of guidelines by which to lead their lives, ones which they idetify with themselves.

The best example i can give is myself (as i know myself better than i know any of these Wiccans, although i do know a guy who is wiccan)

I am an Atheist, or was or am (ill explain). However i still had a very strong moral code as to what is wrong and what is right (i believed that i should be a good person, and do the right thing etc), although when you come to a point where you are unsure as to what is wrong and what is right (and there are moments like this that everyone has, generally things in life are very much a shade of gray) Christians will look to the bible for advice or guidance (and may not even follow it blindly but its there to help them make the decision) Muslims to the Koran etc etc.

Atheists dont have this, Agnostics dont have this, people who are supposidly Christian by upbringing but dont really beleive in it (they read the bible and disagree with what it tells them they should do for example)

So back to my example i began reading actually it was Philosophy and got introduced to Buddist Philosophy, which i now look to some of the teachings and writings to guide me through life and how to lead a good life etc.

Back again to the Wiccan issue, my belief that if it is used as a spiritual guide it can be very effective as a 'Religion' im not sure about the full details of it but i understand its very pagan in origin and promotes the life of all things, plants and animals being equal to humans etc (ofc i could be wrong, and i should read up on it but i dont hae the time atm :) )

So in retrospect its a good thing, it allows people another option to their spiritual life, as most people do need a guide or something to help them through the difficult times, to justify their actions which they already believe to be right, to cement their beliefs into something which is similar to their actual beliefs. (This is possible in any religion and explains why there are so many different types of believer in the same religion, for example take Christains who dont push themselves on others who live good lives according to Gods word and then take the guys and girls who attack abortion clinics, the first type probably disapprove of what the second type do because of their religious beliefs and the others think they are doing what is right by the 'same' beliefs)

I hope i have explained what i mean properly, but its a point of view and thats what im posting :)

Ok Then, Since I Can't Give You "Credible" Evidence Wicca Is Growing, Give Me "Credible" Evidence That It Isn't Growing.
haha wonderful... the old "prove me wrong" arguement. i love it! :p :rolleyes:

I think you are confusing "becoming more well known" with "fast growing". It is true that some forms of Wicca are trendy, appealing to young girls with a leaning towards black clothes, but the older, more established branches of Wicca have been around for some time, and have not grown all that much since their inception.

Wicca is an attractive spiritual practice for folks who are of a more environmental bent, particularly as most of the Goddess and God forms have stronger ties to nature than do the Gods of most 'mainstream' religions. Another big selling point is the duality of the Goddess/God. Again, most of the mainstream religions put forth a patriarchal God and ignore the Goddess aspect entirely, or move her down from diety to the position of human mother (ie Mary) with no particular powers herself to threaten the male power structure. Looking at the nature of how creation/procreation works, it seems almost logical for God to be female. Of late, some branches of Christianity attempt to explain away the "God the Father" part by claiming God is of neither sex; that "He" was just the most convenient way for the writers in biblical times to refer to God. Wicca, based on older, matriarchal religions, has no need for this form of apologetics, as most (but not all) branches put the Goddess on at least equal footing with the God, if not ahead of him and relegating the God to a secondary position, as the male only supplies the seed, the female is the grower who brings it to life.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_nbr3.htm

Oh, spreading like wildfire. Not.

Even taking the generous assumptions of this pro-Wiccan website, it's hardly a fast growing religion.

Even taking the generous assumptions of this pro-Wiccan website, it's hardly a fast growing religion.

Well.. the 381% increase in followers in Canada over a decade is impressive..

Of course, we still do not know if this is the type of wicca we are supposed to be talking about. And we wouldn't want to be accused of "not doing our homework" again, would we ?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_nbr3.htm
That is some funny math.
1/2 of all Pagans must be Wiccans! And then 1/2 of all Wiccans and Wiccan/Pagans must be denying their faith! And then everyone who has a toaster must be gay!
But it does prove their point. Like Jesus said: "When you've outpaced the followers of that guy on the Oatmeal container, then you know you've made it"

Well.. the 381% increase in followers in Canada over a decade is impressive..

Of course, we still do not know if this is the type of wicca we are supposed to be talking about. And we wouldn't want to be accused of "not doing our homework" again, wouldn't we ?

If I go from 1 person to 3 people, that's a huge percentage increase. Percentage increases are not going to tell the story here, especially if 159 million adults in the US are Christians.

I love their methods:

1. First, let's assume that the numbers will be greater than the survey indicates, because somehow Wiccans don't want to tell anyone (especially through an anonymous survey) that they are Wiccans. Government repression, you know.

2. Next, we'll say that all pagans really are Wiccans too, whether or not all pagans really agree with that.

3. And, once we arrive at the US numbers, we'll just say that Canada's numbers "should be" ten percent of that. Just pull a number out of our sphincter, you know.

Government repression, you know.
Not in Canada. Public opinion means a lot more.

i can see how manipulating certain specific parts of the body may produce chemical or electrochemical changes, which could then translate to the brain and change your mental state by affecting certain neurotransmitters for example. that is not to say, however, there is anything spiritual about them, nor can these areas really be called (so vaguely) 'pools of energy'
for a start is a bad use of the word energy...


Did I say there was anything spiritual about them? I merely said that they existed. Your table exists but there is nothing spiritual about it. The pool of energy thing is difficult to envisage, but if you imagine the network of nerves meeting at a point, would that not, if you could see the electromagnetic and chemical energy alone, be a 'pool of energy'? I do not know that this is what is refered to, but an arguement can be put forth.

@ LazyHippies: Scientific theory has proven that there is some truth in the idea of a second nervous system made out of energy, which was what I was refering to.

Trust me, I know about suggestion. I am a student of hypnosis and the first place I came across this idea was in a book on hypnosis, which was talking about unusual ways to manipulate the consciousness. Suggestion can have some very strange effects, and one major theory is that when the brain believes something, it effects the 'energy nervous system', which then effects the body. Thus is how using suggestion you can make someone unable to stand up, simply because they do not thing they can. Now I know that will be news to you as it is a branch of science that few outside it know about, but if you will just accept that for the moment I will move on to the next point:

Since the brain can effect the flow of energy, which can effect the physical body, then aproprate actions on the physical body can have large effects on the energy system, which then effects the mind. That is the theory of accupuncture. Respectfully I must say that I doubt that the nation health body has looked into this idea, as much of it is thought to be the rantings of idiots by a significant part of the scientific community, unfortunately.

Note these are just my opinions and I hope that I will not be flamed for considering these theories, as I have been many times before.

Did I say there was anything spiritual about them? I merely said that they existed. Your table exists but there is nothing spiritual about it. The pool of energy thing is difficult to envisage, but if you imagine the network of nerves meeting at a point, would that not, if you could see the electromagnetic and chemical energy alone, be a 'pool of energy'? I do not know that this is what is refered to, but an arguement can be put forth.

@ LazyHippies: Scientific theory has proven that there is some truth in the idea of a second nervous system made out of energy, which was what I was refering to.

Trust me, I know about suggestion. I am a student of hypnosis and the first place I came across this idea was in a book on hypnosis, which was talking about unusual ways to manipulate the consciousness. Suggestion can have some very strange effects, and one major theory is that when the brain believes something, it effects the 'energy nervous system', which then effects the body. Thus is how using suggestion you can make someone unable to stand up, simply because they do not thing they can. Now I know that will be news to you as it is a branch of science that few outside it know about, but if you will just accept that for the moment I will move on to the next point:

Since the brain can effect the flow of energy, which can effect the physical body, then aproprate actions on the physical body can have large effects on the energy system, which then effects the mind. That is the theory of accupuncture. Respectfully I must say that I doubt that the nation health body has looked into this idea, as much of it is thought to be the rantings of idiots by a significant part of the scientific community, unfortunately.

Note these are just my opinions and I hope that I will not be flamed for considering these theories, as I have been many times before.

You're a student of hypnosis too? No wonder you believe that mumbo jumbo. You claim that science has proven a second nervous system made of energy exists but have failed to point to any reputable scientific source for this information. Instead, you tried to use acupuncture as an example, yet that argument fell apart when you were shown that acupuncture has no medical value. So, now you go back to explaining how this mythical energy system works but showing no evidence whatsoever that what you are saying is true or has been scientifically proven by anyone. Surely, if this has been proven then there must be medical journals which speak of this.

The truth about hypnosis:
http://skepdic.com/hypnosis.html
In short, what is called hypnosis is an act of social conformity rather than a unique state of consciousness. The subject acts in accordance with expectations of the hypnotist and hypnotic situation and behaves as he or she thinks one is supposed to behave while hypnotized. The hypnotist acts in accordance with expectations of the subject (and/or audience) and the hypnotic situation, and behaves as he or she thinks one is supposed to behave while playing the role of hypnotist.



[edit]Upon reading your post again, I realize I may have misunderstood your view on hypnosis because you do seem to realize that hypnosis only works because people think it does. But then you go on to talk about how hypnosis affects the "energy nervous system" that the medical community knows nothing about (yet has been scientifically proven) :rolleyes:

Wicca's a happy delusion, a getaway from parents and reality dressed up as a state of mind. By and large harmless unless relied upon for situations which should be solved by discussion or study. I doubt that it's actually "sweeping", and probably isn't even growing much anyway. Girls will pick up on it when they're twelve and discard it by the end of high school.

You're a student of hypnosis too? No wonder you believe that mumbo jumbo. You claim that science has proven a second nervous system made of energy exists but have failed to point to any reputable scientific source for this information. Surely, if this has been proven then there must be medical journals which speak of this.

The truth about hypnosis:
http://skepdic.com/hypnosis.html
In short, what is called hypnosis is an act of social conformity rather than a unique state of consciousness. The subject acts in accordance with expectations of the hypnotist and hypnotic situation and behaves as he or she thinks one is supposed to behave while hypnotized. The hypnotist acts in accordance with expectations of the subject (and/or audience) and the hypnotic situation, and behaves as he or she thinks one is supposed to behave while playing the role of hypnotist.

This is totally true. What the subject believes should happen is a major suggestion. In fact almost all hypnosis is built upon it. However once you have gained access to the subjects mind you can effect it quite substancially. They believe that when you clap they will not be able to stand. When you clap, THEY CANNOT STAND. This is because you have manipulated their belief system to disregard the possibility that they can stand, whatever they consciously think.

Now can I ask you a question LazyHippies? Why do you believe that person who wrote that article over those who write on hypnosis? Why believe him over the medical organisation: "The british society of clinical hypnosis"? I would assume it is because you have already reached your own conclusion on wether it is true or not, and are unable to accept the idea you could be wrong. Have you ever tried it, keeping yourself truely open to the idea it could be true?

On the note of the energy system, I cannot find the book I got it from, but can you not accept the idea of the nervous messages, the electro-magnetic and chemical energy traveling constantly throughout our body (which any biologist can tell you is true), as a 'energy nervous system', as some call it?

It's just wishful thinking if you ask me. There's no evidence whatsoever for the existance of magic (or magick as some insist on spelling it). Wicca isn't even that old and was really made up sometime in the 50s, from what I've heard. Still, I suppose you could give it credit for the lack of fanaticism.

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.


so many so called wiccans are young teenagers. and these teemagers are just looking to be different. there is the occasional few that continue it for the rest of their life but for the most part it is a big teenage trying to be different thing

I find quite a bit ot admire in the philosophy of Wicca, the Rede is sensible enough, the female empowerment is nice and I can see how it would be especially appealing to women (and teenage girls, of course), the rejection of right-and-wrong, good-and-evil dualism. All good things.

There are, of course, some things I don't like:

"All gods are one God and all goddesses are one Goddess" - I have no problem with people believing this, and it isn't technically essential to Wiccan theology, as far as I know, but the prevalence of it in modern Wicca turns me off it as far as any possibiliy of my adopting it goes.

"It's the Old Religion!" - No, it's not. It makes use of some old ideas, yes, but it is in fact, a new religion. Wicca was founded by Gerald Gardner, and he claims he got most his stuff from a coven of witches (the New Forest coven led by one Dorothy Clutterbuck) who supposedly had an unbroken tradition stretching back into the mists of time and who initiated him into their tradition. Whether this coven existed and, if they did, whether there was any veracity to their claims of tradition are up for debate. I am fond of the quote "Wicca. Pretending to be an ancient religion since the 1950s."

"Never again the Burning Times!"/More Persecuted Than Thou Syndrome - The 'Burning Times', as was stated earlier, are a literay conceit. Presumably Gardner wrote about them to encourage any possible practicioners of his new religon to keep it to themselves (and possibly to help reinforce the "mystery religion" initatory structure he wanted). Many modern Wiccans are still under the impression that such an event actually occured. Yes, "witches" and other undesirables were hunted and killed back in the dark and middle ages, but it was mostly other Christians that felt the wrath of Christians and the accusation of "witch" was convenient. Much like certain Christians, however, some Wiccans like to feel they are persecuted to validate their beliefs. However, most serious Wiccans acknowledge that the 'Burning Times' are a modern myth that Gardner concocted.

"Fluffbunnies" - I know this shouldn't be a huge problem, but wow, does Wicca seem to attract teenage girls and other 'fluffs' like moths to a flame. Buffy and Charmed and pulp Wicca books are probably to blame, the feeling of empowerment a fairly female-centric religion gives to disenchanted teenage girls and the "WOW I CAN DO MAGIC" factor all serve to attract "fluffbunnies". Most of them will drop it like any other fad once they realise that they probably can't use magic to make that boy like them or make that nasty popular girl become ugly, while some will stay on and become more serious, balanced Wiccans later on.

Relations to gods and "using" them in magic - This tends to make a lot of reconstructionists cringe, especially the Heathens (Asatruari, Theodsmen, Norse Wayers, etc.) and genuine Celtic recons, since their pantheons are the most popular among the fluffbunnies and the like. A lot of (mostly fluffy) Wiccans will read a few phrases about a god or goddess being "the god of this" or "the goddess of that" and then act as though they know everying about that god and then just "use" Them like a tool in a spell. Some recons even feel that "using" a god in this way, essentially as nothing more than a spell component, borders on blasphemy. Once again, serious Wiccans usually get over this or never indulge in it at all, but the prevalance of "fluffbunnies" makes this a problem for many.

"All Pagans are Wiccans!" - No. This is an assumption that many non-pagans and Wiccans of the fluffier variety alike make and is, I believe, at least partly why the Heathens, most obviously, and increasingly, other reconstructionist groups tend to eschew the term 'pagan' these days. Many people when they hear "pagan" immediately assume "Wiccan".

Okay, so most of the issues I have stem from the "fluffbunnies". Ignorance is, of course, forgivable if the neophyte is making a genuine effort to learn. Sadly, though, so many don't seem interested in actually learning about what they practice and many mature Wiccans who have been at it a while also acknowledge that this fairly big problem with modern Wicca now that it has become, to an extent, part of pop culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca

So I did some research.

I was almost suprised.

Mainly I knew wiccanism to be....evil is not the word Im looking for...lets just stick with not for me okay?

Why would I want to be associated with a group of people who are not open and upfront about their beliefs? Why do they hide what they do? Why is there most important book called the book of shadows?

But lets step beyond that.

If you read that article above it seems to me that wiccanism came to being around 1920 at the earliest. And there was no massive idea. Just a very wealthy british man seemed to want his own religeon. At least that is what I gathered from that. Seeing as how atleast 50% (again gathered from that article and 50 may be a tad high. Lets stick with 45%) of wiccan covens use rules this gardener laid down.

Why do the wiccans use a pentagram? That is a world wide symbol used in satanic rituals AS WELL AS wiccanism. Dont you think alot of this trouble would be averted if gardener had used a different sysmbol? Where is the backing for choice of this symbol? Why does it have to be a pentagram? The article doesn't explain as much on that as I would have liked. but again, lets skip that.

Wiccans, it seems from my research, worship mainly the seasons, the moon, and a few other obcsure things (all mainly dereived from ancient celtic rituals)

My question is why worship the moon? Its a hunk of rock in space. It used to be part of the earth for crying out loud, and it is steady tourqing in such a way that in a few hundred years it going to drop out of orbit with the earth.
There is no goddess there. No mystical purpose for its existence. It affects the earth through KNOWN ways such as gravity and the like.

Now you may counter with that phases of the moon affecting certain people and I say no. Bring me some hard facts on that and we'll discuss it.

Why worship the seasons? Its just the earth orbiting the sun! This all makes no sense. Your worshipping a planet and its moon, and the affects of said planet orbiting a star.

This religeon centers on natural occurences that have long been explained. Ancient man(and woman) used religeons such as these to explain the world around them. We have science.

Now dont get me wrong, Im not in any way going to down on someone for there religeous beliefs, or force my own down your necks (the bible tells us not to anyway, a point many christians seem to forget) but I just want to know why? Why a planet? Why the seasons? Why the moon?

Why wiccanism? I would really like to hear someones explanations on why they practice wiccanism. (something well thought out and logical please. I do love a good debate but NOT if it centers around me being A. closed minded B. christian and brainwashed or C. just calling me uninitiated)

Regarding the "burning times": I think that the official record for people executed for accused witchcraft in New England stands at a whopping eight. Thank you, symbolism and ritual class.

Regarding representations of celestial objects: When you've got no real physical implements to base your religion around (for example, Christianity's cross as a symbol of sacrifice) You find things from the world around you and make them feel mystic. One person's ball of rock or burning gas becomes another person's guiding light.

Regarding the use of a Pentagram: If I'm not mistaken, pentagrams have been used countelss times through many religions as a symbol of divine power, and it is only by their inversion (pointing down) that they become "evil". Religion owes most of its icons to geometric dynamism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca

So I did some research.

I was almost suprised.

Mainly I knew wiccanism to be....evil is not the word Im looking for...lets just stick with not for me okay?

Why would I want to be associated with a group of people who are not open and upfront about their beliefs? Why do they hide what they do? Why is there most important book called the book of shadows?

Wicca is a *ahem* "Mystery Religion", Gardner intended for it to be initiatory with many things oathbound secrets of particular covens. This is probably a carry-over from the similar nature of the New Forest witches which, supposed, inducted him into their coven and from which he begun Wicca. Supposedly the secrecy is due to the persecution witches are likely to have faced. At least, that's my understanding of it. There is no single "Book of Shadows" as there is a Bible, most Wiccans, as far as I know, each have their own Book of Shadows. The name apparently has more to do with the practicioners personal shadow, rather than the "evil and darkness" sort of "shadows". I admit I don't know all the details.


But lets step beyond that.

If you read that article above it seems to me that wiccanism came to being around 1920 at the earliest. And there was no massive idea. Just a very wealthy british man seemed to want his own religeon. At least that is what I gathered from that. Seeing as how atleast 50% (again gathered from that article and 50 may be a tad high. Lets stick with 45%) of wiccan covens use rules this gardener laid down.

Most Traditions are variants of what Gardner wrote (with "Gardnerian Wicca" being the closest, and the Traditions get further from strict adherence to Gardner's ideas the further they branch out). No, there was no massive idea, just Gardner and what he got from the New Forest witches and pobably bits and pieces from Crowley and Yeats and other famous occultists.


Why do the wiccans use a pentagram? That is a world wide symbol used in satanic rituals AS WELL AS wiccanism. Dont you think alot of this trouble would be averted if gardener had used a different sysmbol? Where is the backing for choice of this symbol? Why does it have to be a pentagram? The article doesn't explain as much on that as I would have liked. but again, lets skip that.

Actually, it is the inverted pentagram common to Satanism. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "Satanic rituals", though. Are we talking virgin sacrifice and goats here? Because those are myths. The pentagram itself is a very old symbol (something about Wicca that actually IS old) and has been found with spiritual connotations in many ancient and not-so-ancient cultures. I suspect they use it for this reason.


Wiccans, it seems from my research, worship mainly the seasons, the moon, and a few other obcsure things (all mainly dereived from ancient celtic rituals)

My question is why worship the moon? Its a hunk of rock in space. It used to be part of the earth for crying out loud, and it is steady tourqing in such a way that in a few hundred years it going to drop out of orbit with the earth.
There is no goddess there. No mystical purpose for its existence. It affects the earth through KNOWN ways such as gravity and the like.

The moon is, as far as I know, often considered to be representative of the Goddess. Wiccans don't actually worship the moon itself, but more what is "behind" it or what it stands for, for them. I'm not an expert, but this is the impression I got. Kind of like when someone kneels before their icons (statues, pictures and the like), they are not worshiping the statues/pictues/etc themselves, but what is "behind" them. The moon is a pretty big, impressive icon, I'll grant you.


Now you may counter with that phases of the moon affecting certain people and I say no. Bring me some hard facts on that and we'll discuss it.

See above.


Why worship the seasons? Its just the earth orbiting the sun! This all makes no sense. Your worshipping a planet and its moon, and the affects of said planet orbiting a star.

This religeon centers on natural occurences that have long been explained. Ancient man(and woman) used religeons such as these to explain the world around them. We have science.

Yes, it largely centres on natural phenomena, but they do not "worship" the phenomena themselves in the way you suggest. There is reverence for the natural cycles of our world, of course, because we are part of the world and subject to these cycles like the rest of nature, but it is more what these phenomena represent that is "worshiped". The seasons, I believe, have significance to the idea of a dying-and-reborn God.


Now dont get me wrong, Im not in any way going to down on someone for there religeous beliefs, or force my own down your necks (the bible tells us not to anyway, a point many christians seem to forget) but I just want to know why? Why a planet? Why the seasons? Why the moon?

See above.


Why wiccanism? I would really like to hear someones explanations on why they practice wiccanism. (something well thought out and logical please. I do love a good debate but NOT if it centers around me being A. closed minded B. christian and brainwashed or C. just calling me uninitiated)

Well, I don't practise it myself, so I can't really help you here. I'm sure there are some Wiccans around here who could, and also correct any errors I made in the above.

Well now.

Of the last 5 wiccans I met in real life, 2 were rather... rebellious... teenage girls, one was a pathetic cocaine-addict, and then there was the streetwalking prostitute who started explaining her befuddled views.
Only one of the 5 ( a normal teenage girl as far as I know ) could be considered a normal, square, upstanding, decent citizen.

Given on that kind of record, one does not feel the slightest need to socialise with wiccans. Much less give them a hearing.

Oddball religions attract oddball followers.

Now can I ask you a question LazyHippies? Why do you believe that person who wrote that article over those who write on hypnosis? Why believe him over the medical organisation: "The british society of clinical hypnosis"? I would assume it is because you have already reached your own conclusion on wether it is true or not, and are unable to accept the idea you could be wrong. Have you ever tried it, keeping yourself truely open to the idea it could be true?

I have reached the conclusion, but it is one I reached through hard evidence. Not only have I studied actual scientific research on the subject of hypnosis, but I know people who hypnotize and people who have been hypnotized. As a member of the International Brotherhood of Magicians, I frequently come into contact with stage hypnotists and mentalists, as these are some of what we consider the allied arts. I am quite familiar with hypnosis and fully understand how it works. It works on the same basis that healing crystals, witch doctors, astrology, and all other branches of folk medicine work (the placebo effect).


On the note of the energy system, I cannot find the book I got it from, but can you not accept the idea of the nervous messages, the electro-magnetic and chemical energy traveling constantly throughout our body (which any biologist can tell you is true), as a 'energy nervous system', as some call it?

Sure, you could call it an energy nervous system if you want, but we know it simply as the nervous system. There is no such thing as pools of energy. If you choose to envision the nervous system as containing pools of energy because you find it more helpful to use that metaphor, fine, go ahead. But it is only a metaphor, not an actual description. The actual description of the nervous system does not include pools of energy. The manipulation of this energy through acupuncture, acupressure, etc. has proven to be ineffective.

Regarding the "burning times": I think that the official record for people executed for accused witchcraft in New England stands at a whopping eight. Thank you, symbolism and ritual class.

Actually it is about 22. Not counting the people who died in prison before they could be hanged of course.
The total number of people executed for this reason is generally estimated at around 300 000 (some claim a few million, but lets be conservative). The burning at the stake was actually not used very much in the anglosaxon countries; they preferred the gallows.

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.

Considering that there are nearly as many versions of Wicca as there are followers of it, I have come to consider it as little more then a misguided but harmless grasp at Spirituality. Most of the Wicca’s I have encountered have a similar jaded dislike for organized religions. That is to say, mainstream religion just doesn't do it for them anymore and rather then becoming atheists they still have a spiritual void to fill; Wicca appeals to then in that regard. On some level I can relate to them here, I to have become incredibly disenchanted with the majority of organized religions but my deistic Christian beliefs remain intact.

As far as morality goes; "Do as thou wilt but harm none" is certainly respectable and in practice runs parallel to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" in that it is the groundwork for mutual respect and empathy for your fellow man. The threefold rule also further enforces that sentiment.

As far as the "magic" and rituals go, probably nothing more then psychosomatics. To an outsider or a skeptic it's obviously silly, but sincere belief can actually manifest certain results through the power of suggestion. Then again, the same could be said for Scientology.

I don't really have a problem with them, I don't think that they worship Satan (an absurdly ridiculous notion), and if Wicca is what does it for you; go for it. I merely believe that I have found a purer and more profound understanding elsewhere. To each his own.

From a slightly different viewpoint, a lot of people who call themselves Wiccan aren't, if you go by the original system.

Unless you have been initiated by a lineaged coven*, you may be following the Wiccan path, but you are not Wiccan. Most initiated Wiccans fully accept that GG made a lot of it up, and took a lot of the rest from organisations such as the Golden Dawn. Its the fluffies that demand that "teh ancientmostest religion" be recognised.

I am not initiated, but I have had discussions with several friends who are.



*lineaged coven - one that can trace the path of initiation to Gerald Gardner.

Wicca, I don't think I actually know too much about it, I knew some people who followed it when I was rebelling from the church, but Satanism made more sense to me than Wicca did at that point. I think it's like any religion, there are 3 types of people who follow it, ones that really believe it, ones that are doing it to bother someone else or to look cool, and ones who follow it because they always have, and always will.

Wicca, I don't think I actually know too much about it, I knew some people who followed it when I was rebelling from the church, but Satanism made more sense to me than Wicca did at that point. I think it's like any religion, there are 3 types of people who follow it, ones that really believe it, ones that are doing it to bother someone else or to look cool, and ones who follow it because they always have, and always will.

I'll have to find it again, but there's some statistic that says that 85 percent of people who were raised with a specific religion from age 3 to age 13 will be that religion (to some extent at least) when they are adults.

Changing over is fairly rare compared to abandoning your religion altogether.

From a slightly different viewpoint, a lot of people who call themselves Wiccan aren't, if you go by the original system.

Unless you have been initiated by a lineaged coven*, you may be following the Wiccan path, but you are not Wiccan. Most initiated Wiccans fully accept that GG made a lot of it up, and took a lot of the rest from organisations such as the Golden Dawn. Its the fluffies that demand that "teh ancientmostest religion" be recognised.

I am not initiated, but I have had discussions with several friends who are.



*lineaged coven - one that can trace the path of initiation to Gerald Gardner.

Yeah, a lot of Wiccans are a bit annoyed at this "self-initiation" stuff that is happening a lot lately and claiming that anyone not initiated into a lineaged coven isn't a real Wiccan. Then again, a lot of other Wiccans are getting pissed at those Wiccans and telling them that they have no right to decide who is and is not "a real Wiccan". Blarg, Wicca seems to be a bit of mess at the moment, unfortunately. I blame pop culture.

[The moon] is steady tourqing in such a way that in a few hundred years it going to drop out of orbit with the earth.Not an expert on Wicca, but, within a magnitude or two (maybe its millimetres/metres instead of cm) I thought that the moon was getting distant by around 4cm a year?

Back-of-an-imaginary-envelope calcuations make me doubt the "few hundred years" figure for it to go into solar orbit, given that it would have been perhaps hundreds of millions of years ago that it would have been a mere 1% closer, and as it gets further out, the transfer the vital rotational energy is diminished... (At least until the Sun gets a significant stakehold in its orbital profile, which I'm guessing is a while away...)


(OF course, everyone knows the Moon was catapulted out of Earth's Orbit in 1999 (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0072564/) when a nuclear-fuel dump exploded, taking those stationed on it into on an extra-solar trip... But that's even more off-topic than the above objection... ;))

I have reached the conclusion, but it is one I reached through hard evidence. Not only have I studied actual scientific research on the subject of hypnosis, but I know people who hypnotize and people who have been hypnotized. As a member of the International Brotherhood of Magicians, I frequently come into contact with stage hypnotists and mentalists, as these are some of what we consider the allied arts. I am quite familiar with hypnosis and fully understand how it works. It works on the same basis that healing crystals, witch doctors, astrology, and all other branches of folk medicine work (the placebo effect).

I am sorry for doubting you, there are many who discriminate simply based on some half-assed reasoning of their own. However if I may say a large proprotion of those who you seem to have talked with are stage hypnotists. They use much more of the placebo effect as they have a resource of it in abundance (the audience). Hypnotherapists have to work in a one-on-one situation and often work with those who arn't sure it is going to work. Then they need to use a lot of skill to infuse these beliefs in their subjects to make it work.



Sure, you could call it an energy nervous system if you want, but we know it simply as the nervous system. There is no such thing as pools of energy. If you choose to envision the nervous system as containing pools of energy because you find it more helpful to use that metaphor, fine, go ahead. But it is only a metaphor, not an actual description. The actual description of the nervous system does not include pools of energy. The manipulation of this energy through acupuncture, acupressure, etc. has proven to be ineffective.

But I was originally calling Pure Metal up for the statement that the mysterious energies were all BS. I am giving an example of something that is described in some beliefs in a similar way to 'mysterious energies', that these are in fact proven scientifically, but regarded differently.

Isnt as I see it, a bad religion...not for me, of course, but...its better in my experience than Christinsanity and Islam, because It doesnt dictate subjugation of people usually

It's Christianity with a different name.

It's Christianity with a different name.
Idiot... Ok, Well Anyways, I'm Back From School. LazyHippies And Revasser, I Would Like To Thank You. Read Your Posts And You'll Know What I Mean. Frankly, I'm NOT Wicca. I Just Think That It Seems To Make A Lot More Sense Than Other Religions. Now Then, About The Whole "Magic" Thing, Most Magic Can Be Explained By Science. Creating Fire: We DO Have Energy Flowing Through Our Bodies. Fire Is Energy, Is It Not? If You Can Focus Hard Enough, Wouldn't It Be Easy To Transfer And Transform That Energy? Lightning: Same Thing, Just Making It Into Electricity. Telekineses: Transfer The Energy Onto An Object, Then Move The Object With The Energy! Mind Reading/Control: Transfer Your Energy Into The Persons Brain. From There, Use The Energy To Cause The Brain To Give Out Nerve Impulses, Or Read The Nerve Impulses. There's A Lot More, More Than I'd Care To Talk About. How Ever, Summoning Rituals, Probably A Load Of Bull.

Wicca is pretty silly stuff.

A lot of people alive today are older than wicca.

It's Christianity with a different name.


Wicca differs from Christianity in a number of respects, not the least of which is that it does not consider itself the one true religion.

While I am not a Wiccan, I did go through a Wiccan stage and was initiated as a first degree priestess in a now defunct coven. The positives are that it doesn't claim to own the truth, it recognizes many truths (including Christianity), it does not proseletyse (sp?), it does not promote violence, it does accept atheists and agnostics (read books by Barbara Walker - a noted Wiccan atheist).

The negative is just one; it's reliance on magical thinking is much on a level with the most fundamentalist Christians and Moslems - i.e. if you believe correctly and do the rite right, you'll get everything you ask for, if you don't get what you ask for, then you did something wrong. It's pretty silly in that regard

There's a difference between people who get into Wicca because they actually think things through and come to the conclusion that it aligns well with their beliefs and morals and those who get into it because they liked Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

There's a difference between people who get into Wicca because they actually think things through and come to the conclusion that it aligns well with their beliefs and morals and those who get into it because they liked Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
So True. If Anyone Joins Any Thing Because They Thought That A Show/Movie Was Cool, They're Idiots. I'd Join Wicca Because They Are The Most Accepting, Sensible Religion Out There! Except Maybe Buddhism, But That's Techincally Not A Religion.

Ok, I Seriously Feel Like Locking This Thread, Because I'm Pissed That People Are Saying Stuff Without Researching What They're Talking About.dont be a Crybaby. :gundge:

So True. If Anyone Joins Any Thing Because They Thought That A Show/Movie Was Cool, They're Idiots. I'd Join Wicca Because They Are The Most Accepting, Sensible Religion Out There!Except Maybe Buddhism, But That's Techincally Not A Religion.ROFL
So "Wicca is a religion and Buddhism isnt" ???
In your dreams.

ROFL

So.. Buddhism is not a religion and Wicca is ??? In your dreams.
Buddhism Doesn't Have A "Higher Power", Nor Even An After Life! Wicca Has The Former, Not Sure About The Latter. Too Many Versions Of Wicca, The Majority Of Them Being Sororities, To Know For Sure.

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.

The so-called "Wiccan" religion has as much theological validity as a game of Dungeons and Dragons.

Wicca is used by silly little girls, who resent traditional morality, as an excuse to dance around naked without having to become strippers.

Buddhism Doesn't Have A "Higher Power"...So what?

I have a "High Power" inside my pants.. It does not automatically make me a religion.

So what?

I have a "Higher Power" inside my pants.. It does not automatically make me a religion.
Well Does Anyone Believe In Your Higher Power? Besides You, Your Girlfriend, Or Your Mom?

Well Does Anyone Believe In Your Higher Power? Besides You, Your Girlfriend, Or Your Mom?the whole village:D .. and so what?
still... does not automatically make me a religion.

the whole village:D .. and so what?
still... does not automatically makes me a religion.
So, Do They Worship Your So-Called "Higher Power" As A God?

wicca=crap basic math
christianity>wicca

So, Do They Worship Your So-Called "Higher Power" As A God?some do.. :D

still does not make me a Religion.

wicca=crap basic math
christianity>wicca
Dude, Christianity Promotes Killing People Not Of Their Faith (At Least, That's What A Large Amount Of Christians Think) How Ever, Most People Who Follow Wicca Perfer Peace. Just Because They Do Rituals Which They Believe Gives Them Magic Powers Doesn't Mean They Suck. If Christians Began Doing Magical Rituals, How Would You Respond? Hmm? In Fact, Let's Direct That At Everyone.




If Christians Began Doing "Magic" Rituals As A Regular Part Of Their Religion, What Would You Think. (Note, If You Are Christian, Think That Everyone Else Besides You And Your Family Began Doing These "Magic" Rituals.)

load of toss.

sweeping america maybe - can stay out of the UK, thanks.
we have our fair share of pagans (proper ancient celtic druds and the like) but liking a "religion" because its cool is stupid. religion is kinda stupid anyway (imho) and actively going 'ooh i'm not spiritual enough so i should go believe in some made up BS' is frankly pretty pathetic imho.
religion is not needed in modern life, and subscribing to a "new religion" because its 'cool' and they all did it in buffy the vampire slayer is sad...

i'm feeling bitter today :p

Oh the irony.

some do.. :D

still does not make me a Religion.
Well Frankly, Anyone Who Worships A Higher Power Like That, Is A Complete Idiot. Congrats, You Have Idiots As Followers. If Someone Worships Something, Then It Becomes A Religion. Maybe It Isn't An OFFICIAL Religion, But It Is A Religion None The Less.

Just Because They Do Rituals Which They Believe Gives Them Magic Powers Doesn't Mean They Suck. LOL..

and just what magic Powers do think you have?

Dude, Christianity Promotes Killing People Not Of Their Faith (At Least, That's What A Large Amount Of Christians Think) How Ever, Most People Who Follow Wicca Perfer Peace. Just Because They Do Rituals Which They Believe Gives Them Magic Powers Doesn't Mean They Suck. If Christians Began Doing Magical Rituals, How Would You Respond? Hmm? In Fact, Let's Direct That At Everyone.




If Christians Began Doing "Magic" Rituals As A Regular Part Of Their Religion, What Would You Think. (Note, If You Are Christian, Think That Everyone Else Besides You And Your Family Began Doing These "Magic" Rituals.)
no, it doesnt mean they suck, just that they are crazy
and where in the bible does it say for christians to kill nonbelievers
i think thats islam..(Jihad)

Well Frankly, Anyone Who Worships A Higher Power Like That, Is A Complete Idiot. Congrats, You Have Idiots As Followers. LOL.. and Just what "Higher Power" do you worship ???

LOL..

and just what magic Powers do think you have?
I Don't Think I Have Magic Powers, I Think I Have Scientific Powers. Read My Ealier Post On Harnessing The Body's Energy.

LOL.. and Just what "Higher Power" do you worship ???
I Don't Have One. I Can't Grasp The Idea That Someone, No Matter How Supernaturaly Enhanced, Could Possibly Control The Entire Universe. Unless He/She Has An Army Of Little Santa-Style-Elves Helping Him, There Is No Way He/She Can Run The Universe.

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.

Yes, But Now It Is Sweeping The U.S. And Britian (I Think).

Hey People, Don't Misread Me. I'm Not Saying I Like It. It Just Seems Like The Religion I Would Choose If I Couldn't Be Athiest. And Ok, So It's Not Really So Much A Religion, But It Still Is Widely Spreading.


why do you keep capitalizing the first letter of every word?

why do you keep capitalizing the first letter of every word?
God Damnit, Can't We Just Shut Up About Me Capitalizing Every Word? I Refuse To Answer This Question Any More. Your're On Your Own.

no, it doesnt mean they suck, just that they are crazy
and where in the bible does it say for christians to kill nonbelievers
i think thats islam..(Jihad)To be honest.. it does says just that on the Jewish Holy book...

Leviticus 20:27 "A man or a woman who is a medium or a wizard shall be put to death; they shall be stoned with stones, their blood shall be upon them."

So Jews, Christians and maybe Muslims are on the same boat.

But regardless.. witchcraft is just pure Fantasy...

If you think you will get any Magic powers by getting laid by the "high priest" you are just an idiot.. a sodomized idiot.

witchcraft is just pure Fantasy...
Oh, On The Contrary. Some Sections Of Witchcraft Can Easily Be Explained By Science. Just Take Something From Witchcraft, Look At It From A Scientific View Point, And You Will Discover That It Is Very Plausible. Of Course, The Way Wiccans Think Magic Works May Not Be Correct.

I Don't Think I Have Magic Powers, I Think I Have Scientific Powers. Read My Ealier Post On Harnessing The Body's Energy.Wicca is about magic powers..

What was all your talking about researching???

Wicca is about magic powers..

What was all your talking about researching???
Uhh... Listen. I Research It, Understanding Most People Don't Take A Scientific Stand Point On It. Then I Take A Part Of It, Which I Hope Can Be Scientifficaly Proven (Or At Least Theorised On) And Look At It From A Scientific View.

Listen, My Scientific View Point Is My Idea Of How Wicca Works, Taking A Scientific Rather Than Supernatural Idea Of It. I Understand It Is Different From The So Called "True" Idea Of Wicca. But I'm Not Saying This IS The True Wicca. I'm Just Saying This Is My View Point On What Wicca Is. It May Not Be Your Idea, May Not Be A Wiccans.

Oh, On The Contrary. Some Sections Of Witchcraft Can Easily Be Explained By Science. Just Take Something From Witchcraft, Look At It From A Scientific View Point, And You Will Discover That It Is Very Plausible. Of Course, The Way Wiccans Think Magic Works May Not Be Correct.Like i said it is about Magic..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft

"Witchcraft, in various historical, religious and mythical contexts, is the use of certain kinds of supernatural or magical powers. A witch is a (sometimes specifically female) person who engages in witchcraft."

Wicca is about magic powers..

What was all your talking about researching???

No dude, it's true. This girl explained it to me, you light a candle or something, and move it and stuff, and then you get sex and money and stuff.

Actually I was pretty high when it was explained, so I might have messed some of the details up, but there's definately magic.

Like i said it is about Magic..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft

"Witchcraft, in various historical, religious and mythical contexts, is the use of certain kinds of supernatural or magical powers. A witch is a (sometimes specifically female) person who engages in witchcraft."
Read My Posts Please, I'm Saying This Is My Scientific View Point On The Subject. It May Not Be The Majority's View Point.

No dude, it's true. This girl explained it to me, you light a candle or something, and move it and stuff, and then you get sex and money and stuff.

Actually I was pretty high when it was explained, so I might have messed some of the details up, but there's definately magic.
READ MY DAMN POSTS!

anyhow.. I have wasted enuff time here..

I shall leave you to your own fantasies. Good luck..

READ MY DAMN POSTS!

It's a lot more soothing when you use all caps like that, instead of the caps at the begining of every new word method you usually use.

I like it.

anyhow.. I have wasted enuff time here..

I shall leave you to your own fantasies. Good luck girl
I'm A 13 Year Old Heterosexual Boy. Please Recognize That.

Lucky Bastards. My Parents Are Bitching At Me To Get Off The Computer. Keep This Thread Alive Please.

No dude, it's true. This girl explained it to me, you light a candle or something, and move it and stuff, and then you get sex and money and stuff.

Actually I was pretty high when it was explained, so I might have messed some of the details up, but there's definately magic.hmm.. Probably works better if you are high..:D

Did you at least get -you know- ...the sex?? :D :D :fluffle::D

I'm A 13 Year Old Heterosexual Boy. Please Recognize That.My mistake. *edited*

There's a difference between people who get into Wicca because they actually think things through and come to the conclusion that it aligns well with their beliefs and morals and those who get into it because they liked Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

I'm a big fan of mr whedon's work also. Maybe I should become a wiccan.

hmm.. Probably works better if you are high..:D

Did you at least get -you know- ...the sex?? :D :D :fluffle::D

Well I slept with her, if that's what you mean.

I never did the bullshit with the candle though.

Wicca is cool. Most Wiccans I know are pricks. :rolleyes:

There's a difference between people who get into Wicca because they actually think things through and come to the conclusion that it aligns well with their beliefs and morals and those who get into it because they liked Buffy the Vampire Slayer.


So what you are trying to say is:

"There are people who get into it because they like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and there are people who get into it because they base their lives on Buffy the Vampire Slayer"

Once again, it's up to the chaoticist to set some MINOR matters straight... Very well.

People:

Wicca IS a religion. It has a core belief, it has belief in higher powers, and it has symbolism. Unless you're an insecure Christian that feels the need to disavow Wicca as a religion just so you can feel more comfy calling Wicca a "cult", you have no reason not to call it for what it is: A religion.

A Christian prayer is no different AT ALL from a wiccan ritual. Both are ways to try and get the universe to work as we want it to, to an extent, and both are equally effective at that. Or equally non-effective if you don't believe they work.

Wicca people with an ounce of self-respect dislike "Charmed-wiccans" even more than you do. They're not actual wiccans, they're simply idiots that decided that it would be "cool".

Actual wiccans know HOW AND WHY they perform certain rituals, as well as the do's and don'ts of wicca.

It may come as a shock to you people, but using wicca to get loved or laid is a no-no, because it's tampering with other's free will.

Wicca may or not be growing, but that's beyond the point. Unlike other religions, wiccans don't feel the insecurity-driven need for more people to convert. They believe that all gods are personal ways to ascend (or go to Heaven, if you will), and that such "heaven" is decided by actions (hence the three-fold-law) rather than sucking up to the right guy.

By believing all gods to be "one" and all goddesses to be "one" - having, thus, a dual deity system - they simply assume that those worshipping a god are worshipping a facet of the God.

Wiccans do NOT dance naked in forests. Or, not as a rule anyways. Wiccan rituals are pretty liberal. The relationship of a wiccan and the gods is a personal thing, they don't need to be told what to do save for some guidelines. So, while some MAY dance naked, most do NOT.

Making fun of wicca as a "delusion" seems awfully easy for people that believe that God is, at the same time, merciful, and willing to damn Ghandi to Hell for not believing Him. If you want to see delusions, look at your own incoherencies first.

I am NOT, and I repeat, NOT A WICCAN. I am an occultist, yes, and, if you have a problem with that, too bad. If you tell me about how your merciful God will send me to Hell for it, I'll rub it in your face that I take for granted concepts you can't even pronounce, let alone understand. If challenged to attack you through a ritual to show occultism has power, I will not. Why? Because you'd think it was just a coincidence, even if your leg broke on a freak accident 2 minutes after challenging me to do it. AND because most decent occultists show a slightest bit of self-control, something lacking in the main-stream religions.

Capital Initials Boy, You Should Join Wicca If You Want, But Not On Account Of Whatever Anyone Here Said. Why? Because Religion Is A Personal Path. Wiccans Don't Ask For Social Endorsement, Even Because Most Idiotic People Won't Give It Any. It's Your Call. But Promise Me Something: If You Do Join, Don't Become A "Charmed Wicca". And, If You Join, Treat It As A Life Path, Not As A Lark. You May Leave It Later On, But Don't Leave It Just Out Of "Boredom".

There.

So, My Question Is, Are You Clinically Depressed Because You Are Interested In wicca, Or Are You Interested In wicca Because You Are Clinically Depressed?

jes wonderin'

It may come as a shock to you people, but using wicca to get loved or laid is a no-no, because it's tampering with other's free will.


Well that's toss. What's the point of religion if not to bend other peoples will to your own?

I am NOT, and I repeat, NOT A WICCAN. I am an occultist, yes, and, if you have a problem with that, too bad.

There.


And you dont know me, man, and you're not the boss of me!

Heikoku wrapped it all straight in my opinion. Wicca is a religion. It is to be debased no more than say Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Christianity. All have an order of worship, of 'prayer' in whatever it's called, and superstition. I was Wiccan once, but found a higher purpose to my life than fulfilling that of my desire. I would describe myself as having elements of both Buddhism and Paganism. I find connecting with the higher power (in whatever name it may be called) gives more strength to hope than any lit candle ever could.

(But, p.s., I do believe that rituals/prayer highly influence concentration and how that may affect whatever is being prayed over. I DO believe in magick, based on experience, and that is why I am extremely, extremely, EXTREMELY careful of the things, if any, that I try to influence.)

For those who think it is cool, you will find that there is more danger out there than you can imagine.

And that's all my warning has to say.

"New Age". Humph. "Wicca". Feh.

You wanna get to the bottom of it all, you gotta be right with Bob. J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, that is. Accept no substitutes. Eternal salvation or triple your money back. Do not fold or bend.

Go to him, Earthmen! And give him your thirty dollars! Secure your places aboard the pleasure saucers today!

This does appear to be typical of most discussions of Wicca: everyone has an opinion but nobody actually practices it.

This does appear to be typical of most discussions of Wicca: everyone has an opinion but nobody actually practices it.

Maybe so, except I studied wicca.

On a side note, for those that would call it a cult: A cult is a subgroup of a religion. As such, catholicism may be called one. Wicca is a religion in and of itself.

First let me say, stop take a good look at all the previous posts. See much negatividy tword pagans?? Wonder agen why a good number of pagan (no matter wich path) sees fit not to advertise who they are? These people want to avoid the hostility of others. Cant anyone call your house and say its a survey? The computer ones also, I can make my computer do that, you can also buy them cheaply. Befor you answer an question stop and think first. Yes much of paganism can not be explainde away with science but what religion can? Prove jeasus ever existed, prove the bible was not just the first novel. Prove budiest can reach an higher plain. any religion has unexplainable things. Can anyone say in absolute certainty that there religion is the only right one? ok, now prove it. You see when it comes to religion, proof means little. Defanition of paganism (http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3APagan&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official)

NeoPagan (http://www.google.com/search?hs=sZi&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=define%3Aneo-pagan&btnG=Search)

about paganism (http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/paganism/index.shtml)

"New Age". Humph. "Wicca". Feh.

You wanna get to the bottom of it all, you gotta be right with Bob. J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, that is. Accept no substitutes. Eternal salvation or triple your money back. Do not fold or bend.

Go to him, Earthmen! And give him your thirty dollars! Secure your places aboard the pleasure saucers today!

I'll accept that statement if you refer to Christianism in the same way. The statement is wrong, yes, but it should at least be coherent...

Maybe so, except I studied wicca.

On a side note, for those that would call it a cult: A cult is a subgroup of a religion. As such, catholicism may be called one. Wicca is a religion in and of itself.

Still not quite the same. It's like claiming to know all about apples because you have studied them extensively without ever having eaten one.

Since everyone has tossed out their opinion, I might as well toss mine out there too: Wicca exists primarily as a means to annoy Christians, secondarily as a way for people to think they are cool by embracing something obscure. One would think that people would lose their individuality if they didn't constantly make efforts to distinguish themselves from everything else.

Heikoku wrapped it all straight in my opinion. Wicca is a religion. It is to be debased no more than say Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Christianity. All have an order of worship, of 'prayer' in whatever it's called, and superstition. I was Wiccan once, but found a higher purpose to my life than fulfilling that of my desire. I would describe myself as having elements of both Buddhism and Paganism. I find connecting with the higher power (in whatever name it may be called) gives more strength to hope than any lit candle ever could.

(But, p.s., I do believe that rituals/prayer highly influence concentration and how that may affect whatever is being prayed over. I DO believe in magick, based on experience, and that is why I am extremely, extremely, EXTREMELY careful of the things, if any, that I try to influence.)

For those who think it is cool, you will find that there is more danger out there than you can imagine.

And that's all my warning has to say.

About twenty years ago, a gypsy put a curse on me. I am still here. She is not.

Magic, feh. (Though I am descended from a clan of witch smellers. Maybe it doesn't work on me).

Still not quite the same. It's like claiming to know all about apples because you have studied them extensively without ever having eaten one.

Since everyone has tossed out their opinion, I might as well toss mine out there too: Wicca exists primarily as a means to annoy Christians, secondarily as a way for people to think they are cool by embracing something obscure. One would think that people would lose their individuality if they didn't constantly make efforts to distinguish themselves from everything else.

Did you ever join the Wiccan religion? No? Then your statement would have the same value as mine. Did you ever STUDY it? No? I did. Then your statement has LESS value than mine.

Next.

Ooookaaay... Time for someone with actual occultism skill to join...

Actual wiccans know HOW AND WHY they perform certain rituals, as well as the do's and don'ts of wicca.
...
Wiccans do NOT dance naked in forests. Or, not as a rule anyways. Wiccan rituals are pretty liberal. The relationship of a wiccan and the gods is a personal thing, they don't need to be told what to do save for some guidelines. So, while some MAY dance naked, most do NOT.
...
I am NOT, and I repeat, NOT A WICCAN. I am an occultist, yes, and, if you have a problem with that, too bad. If you tell me about how your merciful God will send me to Hell for it, I'll rub it in your face that I take for granted concepts you can't even pronounce, let alone understand. If challenged to attack you through a ritual to show occultism has power, I will not. Why? Because you'd think it was just a coincidence, even if your leg broke on a freak accident 2 minutes after challenging me to do it. AND because most decent occultists show a slightest bit of self-control, something lacking in the main-stream religions.

Capital Initials Boy, You Should Join Wicca If You Want...Wait.. it would actually take you 2 minutes to magically break my leg ??

About twenty years ago, a gypsy put a curse on me. I am still here. She is not.

Magic, feh. (Though I am descended from a clan of witch smellers. Maybe it doesn't work on me).

To spare myself the trouble of explaining the whole thought-form theory to you, I'll just ask if it was an actual death curse. And if she actually did it. And if she had any skill in occultism.

Wait.. it would actually take you 2 minutes to magically break my leg ??

It was a hyperbolic example. And PLEASE don't tell me you think I believe magick is like D&D, I BEG of you...

I'll accept that statement if you refer to Christianism in the same way. The statement is wrong, yes, but it should at least be coherent...


What's a "christianism" ?

To spare myself the trouble of explaining the whole thought-form theory to you, I'll just ask if it was an actual death curse. And if she actually did it. And if she had any skill in occultism.So.. not only you can magically Break legs.. But you can kill people with an "actual death curse"

Did you ever join the Wiccan religion? No? Then your statement would have the same value as mine. Did you ever STUDY it? No? I did. Then your statement has LESS value than mine.

Next.

I think in this case, your two pieces of pocket lint are more valuable than my one piece.

It's not saying much, is it?

.. I BEG of you...do not beg me.. Just Do it.. Break my leg .. you say you can do it 2 minutes.. I give you 4. (i am feeleing generous;) today )

So.. not only you can magically Break legs.. But you can kill people with an "actual death curse"

I never said I could. I never said I could magically break legs either. I was exagerating it to make a point...

To spare myself the trouble of explaining the whole thought-form theory to you, I'll just ask if it was an actual death curse. And if she actually did it. And if she had any skill in occultism.

Eh? Yeah, I heard her curse me, right after I told her "No, I will not give you money, nor buy your fucking flower."

Can't actually remember what she said exactly, but it was something about death and cursing.

Anyhoo, she's gone now. Yet, I remain. (Unless this is the afterlife, and she's still alive, which is why she's gone. :eek: )

Wait.. it would actually take you 2 minutes to magically break my leg ??

I can break legs faster than that. But it isn't magic.

I think in this case, your two pieces of pocket lint are more valuable than my one piece.

It's not saying much, is it?

Unless you're saying you need to have been a radical islamist to discuss radical islamism, yes, it is saying much.

Eh? Yeah, I heard her curse me, right after I told her "No, I will not give you money, nor buy your fucking flower."

Can't actually remember what she said exactly, but it was something about death and cursing.

Anyhoo, she's gone now. Yet, I remain. (Unless this is the afterlife, and she's still alive, which is why she's gone. :eek: )

Old lady trying to scare you into buying flowers. You didn't believe she was actually trying to curse you, did you?

I never said I could. I never said I could magically break legs either. I was exagerating it to make a point...
Damn.. thats too bad.. I was going to hire to kill Zargawi, BinLaden, and others.. I was even going to share the total 100millions bounty with you..

I never said I could. I never said I could magically break legs either. I was exagerating it to make a point...


I'll give you a thousand american dollars on paypal if you use your Wycckyde Magyckke to knock this cup over i have on my desk here, with your Magyckke.

I can break legs faster than that. But it isn't magic.

While I'm sure this would look magnificent in your resumé, the "leg breaking" remark was just a way to illustrate a point...

Old lady trying to scare you into buying flowers. You didn't believe she was actually trying to curse you, did you?

My girlfriend of the time, who witnessed this and was far more familiar with the milieu, assured me the gypsy curses are both real and the inevitable consequence of spurning the flowers. Who am I to gainsay her?

Regardless, the point stands. The old hag's threats were idle.

I'll give you a thousand american dollars on paypal if you use your Wycckyde Magyckke to knock this cup over i have on my desk here, with your Magyckke.

Unlike what your upbringing may have made you think, it does not work like D&D. Never has, never will, and, with some exceptions I can group right there with the Westboro Baptist Church to Christians, actual occultists don't think it does.

My girlfriend of the time, who witnessed this and was far more familiar with the milieu, assured me the gypsy curses are both real and the inevitable consequence of spurning the flowers. Who am I to gainsay her?

Regardless, the point stands. The old hag's threats were idle.

Are you ready to say the same thing about prayer?

Unlike what your upbringing may have made you think, it does not work like D&D. Never has, never will, and, with some exceptions I can group right there with the Westboro Baptist Church to Christians, actual occultists don't think it does.


Yeah but you should still cast a Poweorfule Magycckle Spelle to make the 1,000 dollars! You could buy a rose and drink red wine out of it! And pretend its blood!

I'll give you a thousand american dollars on paypal if you use your Wycckyde Magyckke to knock this cup over i have on my desk here, with your Magyckke.Will you give me 1000 paypal dollars if I "magically" format your hard drive? and i can do it in 4 minutes tops :D :D ;) :D
Of course I want you to put mo money in a trust.. which will verify that your Computer's IP is no longer able to connect to the Net...

I'll accept that statement if you refer to Christianism in the same way. The statement is wrong, yes, but it should at least be coherent...
Coherence is less of a friend than you'd think. But by all means, include everybody. Zoroastrians, too.

Will you give me 1000 paypal dollars if I "magically" format your hard drive? and i can do it in 4 minutes tops :D :D ;) :D
Of course I want you to put mo money in a trust.. which will verify that your Computer's IP is no longer able to connect to the Net...


That wouldnt be Ryghte Maesterfule Magycklle Spellecastinge!

Are you ready to say the same thing about prayer?To be honest.. In a way you are rite about prayer.

Yeah but you should still cast a Poweorfule Magycckle Spelle to make the 1,000 dollars! You could buy a rose and drink red wine out of it! And pretend its blood!

I don't drink, and, trust me, when I need money, I can get money through much quicker ways than drinking whatever out of whatever. Are you an actual atheist, though?

I don't drink, and, trust me, when I need money, I can get money through much quicker ways than drinking whatever out of whatever. Are you an actual atheist, though?


The money would go to buy the rose and the wine, not the other way around!

You'd need to use your Magyckkle Spellecastinge to make the money.

Ok, here if this makes everyone feel better I AM PAGAN! You bunch are acting like a groupe of insecure wemon. ( I am female by the by so I can say so) We (for the most part) Are just a bunch of tree huging hipies. Whats wrong with that? There are branches of the church just as there are bracnches to paganism. There are parts of the church that used to hold ritual just as we do ( with few variations). All ritual and spells are is the same as praying. We just get a bit more theatrical about it. Some chose not to as well. Its the same as some cristains go to church and some pray at home. Ritual (spells, ect)is a way to put our minds in the right mood and help us foscus on our intent.

If the gyspy was curseing you she probably got a tast of her own. There is the three fold law you know.

The money would go to buy the rose and the wine, not the other way around!

You'd need to use your Magyckkle Spellecastinge to make the money.

Hey, moron, answer my question...

Are you ready to say the same thing about prayer?

Eh? Of course. I am sure that hundereds, if not thousands have people have prayed for bad things to happen to me. And their efforts have been as futile as the old bag's.

wow so many of you people are SO damn rude!!! I happen to be wiccan, and I don't go around bashing Christians and such, very few of we "true" pagans do. Yes people do it for attention, every religion has its wacko trendy brats. But this is not needed, for so many people to just trash others' beliefs. People choose religion based on how it makes them feel, and I never got the satisfaction from Christianity that I do from Wiccan. As for sweeping America, no. As for most wiccans being goth, FUCK no. And don't forget, we are as normal as the rest of you. I am an honors student, I'm on stage crew, I perform in mock trial, I'M NO DIFFERENT FROM YOU. Seriously, I get made fun of daily because word got out that I'm an "uncivilized pagan" and it is not fair, but I still don't attack others religion. Its a personal choice, and what makes you happy, like your sexuality, or even how you style your hair. Each person is unique, and nobody should be telling them how to worship what they BELIEVE. So what if you don't agree with them? Keep your mouth shut, its not your place to antagonize them. Okay, sorry for that rant, but I just called uncivilized for what I BELIEVE IN. Nobody deserves that. And don't just assume that little girls who pile on black makeup and say incantations are what we wiccans/witches are all about. We are about self-empowerment. Each person is strong and beautiful and wise and perfect as they are. Thank you. I wish you all the best. So mote it be.

also new granada, why are you such a smartass? its not very flattering

Hey, moron, answer my question...

Dont flame people on the forum, "heikoku."


And for the record, I'm not a real atheist, I'm a fake atheist.

And the cup is still standing, do you have Magycklle Poweres or don't you?

also new granada, why are you such a smartass? its not very flattering

I think you're giving him too much credit calling him a SMART ass...

I'm no troll, and I haven't read much of this thread, but wicca is not a smart religion. I want to call it names along with its followers I dislike it so much. I dislike it more than Christianity just because I feel it makes no sense. I'm really sorry if I offend anyone in saying this, but I feel wicca is followed because it's "cool" or makes you feel like you fit in.
What you do does not come back threefold. That's why we have laws - so that we can attempt to catch people who do wrong. Magic does not exist - that's why we have science and astronomy. There's a reason astrology isn't taught in high school.

I'm no troll, and I haven't read much of this thread, but wicca is not a smart religion. I want to call it names along with its followers I dislike it so much. I dislike it more than Christianity just because I feel it makes no sense. I'm really sorry if I offend anyone in saying this, but I feel wicca is followed because it's "cool" or makes you feel like you fit in.
What you do does not come back threefold. That's why we have laws - so that we can attempt to catch people who do wrong. Magic does not exist - that's why we have science and astronomy. There's a reason astrology isn't taught in high school.

Tell that to the church that only acknowledged that the Earth revolves around the Sun in the last 20 years...

I think it's ridiculous. Everyone knows I am the Father and the Creator.

"Wicca" seems a bit tacky to me, but, eh. Whatever boats your float.

I'm no troll, and I haven't read much of this thread, but wicca is not a smart religion. I want to call it names along with its followers I dislike it so much. I dislike it more than Christianity just because I feel it makes no sense. I'm really sorry if I offend anyone in saying this, but I feel wicca is followed because it's "cool" or makes you feel like you fit in.
What you do does not come back threefold. That's why we have laws - so that we can attempt to catch people who do wrong. Magic does not exist - that's why we have science and astronomy. There's a reason astrology isn't taught in high school.

Yea magic exists, I draft it sometimes on friday nights.

There's a reason astrology isn't taught in high school.
hey stupid, I'm actually taking astrology in high school, so stuff it. And listen, mr im too fucking cool to approve of religion, why do you bust our chops? What is your high and mighty belief system that makes us inferior? we have feelings too! Do NOT attack other's beliefs. If anything you are being a hypocrite, because people attack religions and sexuality because it is the "cool" thing to do. But back to the magic, we don't claim to turn rats into a necklace or anything of the sort. Its the well-being you feel when you are content with the earth and living things. So next time, unless you are a guidance counselor, don't talk about classes. Kaythanks <3.

Tell that to the church that only acknowledged that the Earth revolves around the Sun in the last 20 years...


Can you use your Magyckkle Poweres to Caest a Spelle on my cup or not, "heikoku" ?

hey stupid, I'm actually taking astrology in high school, so stuff it. And listen, mr im too fucking cool to approve of religion, why do you bust our chops? What is your high and mighty belief system that makes us inferior? we have feelings too! Do NOT attack other's beliefs. If anything you are being a hypocrite, because people attack religions and sexuality because it is the "cool" thing to do. But back to the magic, we don't claim to turn rats into a necklace or anything of the sort. Its the well-being you feel when you are content with the earth and living things. So next time, unless you are a guidance counselor, don't talk about classes. Kaythanks <3.

Where on earth do you go to school?

longwood highschool, long island, new york

Can you use your Magyckkle Poweres to Caest a Spelle on my cup or not, "heikoku" ?

Depends on your ability to make me die by prayer. As for your cup, choke on it, you still didn't say what the heck a "fake atheist" is.

granada, what the hell is your problem?

longwood highschool, long island, new york

And they teach astrology?

Two people very important to me practice Wicca; my mother and my best freind. Like all things religious, I respect their beliefs and I support anyting that make their live better.

hey stupid, I'm actually taking astrology in high school, so stuff it. And listen, mr im too fucking cool to approve of religion, why do you bust our chops? What is your high and mighty belief system that makes us inferior? we have feelings too! Do NOT attack other's beliefs. If anything you are being a hypocrite, because people attack religions and sexuality because it is the "cool" thing to do. But back to the magic, we don't claim to turn rats into a necklace or anything of the sort. Its the well-being you feel when you are content with the earth and living things. So next time, unless you are a guidance counselor, don't talk about classes. Kaythanks <3.

Stop flaming people on the forums, "snoggerville."

Would you like a thousand dollars? Just use your Magyccke to knock my cup over on my desk, i'll paypal the money to the address of your choosing.

that they do. But actually I'm taking it next year.

its not flaming if its the truth

tell ya what, when you stop being snide, i'll stop insulting you

that they do. But actually I'm taking it next year.

I'm hoping that you have confused astrology with astronomy. Please indicate this is so by describing what you think you will learn in the class.

Stop flaming people on the forums, "snoggerville."

Would you like a thousand dollars? Just use your Magyccke to knock my cup over on my desk, i'll paypal the money to the address of your choosing.

Would you be willing to pay me if I used it to instead keep it on the desk without you interfering? :p

Depends on your ability to make me die by prayer. As for your cup, choke on it, you still didn't say what the heck a "fake atheist" is.


Its like a real atheist, but fake.

I'm sure you've seen fake things before.

Lets use a designer louis vuitton purse as an example. The real ones are sold in shops for lots of money, the fake ones are made in china and sold on ebay and city streets for a tiny bit of money.

One is real, one is fake! 今分かりますか?

I'm hoping that you have confused astrology with astronomy. Please indicate this is so by describing what you think you will learn in the class.

I'm hoping you have confused newspaper horoscopes with astrology. Please indicate this is so by describing what you think each one is...

Would you be willing to pay me if I used it to instead keep it on the desk without you interfering? :p


Nope, the condition is clear, if and only if the cup is knocked over by the Poweres Of Magyckkle Spelles then you get a 1000 dollars.

Nope, the condition is clear, if and only if the cup is knocked over by the Poweres Of Magyckkle Spelles then you get a 1000 dollars.

Curses. I guess it's back to Odin and the rest of his lot for me then.

I'm hoping you have confused newspaper horoscopes with astrology. Please indicate this is so by describing what you think each one is...


One is lighthearted newspaper fun, the other is Mysticckle Hoodoo Jive where sense and reason take a back seat to fantasy, and the positions of planets, stars and other celestial objects are pretended to have impacts on human lives.

Nope, the condition is clear, if and only if the cup is knocked over by the Poweres Of Magyckkle Spelles then you get a 1000 dollars.

Yeah, it would be a pretty awesome trick to knock over a cup that is NOT THERE. Cheater.

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.

i think it is hysterically comical!

there is a quaint artsy fartsy town near me..with a bunch of goofy idiots acting all deep and conflicted..lol..and the business men/women, do quite the biz selling all kinds of wicca crap to the tourists.
not to mention the goth crowd.

ohhh... hocus pocus me lost focus..hehe

really,i think it is mostly disspossed girls/women that are searching for some type of empowerment,or some need to establish an identity of their own.and piss off their dads,or show how unique they are...lol..like the goths...a hundred kids dressed in black,wearing black lipstick...all saying how they are soooo different then society!
what a joke...they all look alike...yet are so different....puhleeze.

it is no different then when i went thru my "punk faze"
i thought i was so special and unique,until i looked around and realised there was a bunch of other idiots like me..thinking they were special and different!

then i realised....wow,grow the fuck up dude..no one really gives a shit either way what i dress like or whatever...do i do what i need to do..thats the bottom line.

i guess if it helps someone thru an identity crisis..then it serves it's purpose,or if it empowers a girl who feels powerless and needs something to claim as her uniqueness..fine...but reality is...you live life..you die!

there is no boogey man,there is no magic potion,there is no spell or magic wand...life, is what it is...period!

sounds cynical...but how is some earth religion any different then any religion?
you believe in something that makes you feel protected or empowered...when in reality...a frickin meteor could smash you into the ground tomorrow,and wicca/allah/jesus/nothing is going to stop it or change it.

life sucks(unless your fortunate..and even then)get over it...there is no magic wand you wave..your either happy on your own hook..or you aint!

by the way..if your a wiccan..i got some goats blood for sale..it cures all sorts of shit.

lol

Nope, the condition is clear, if and only if the cup is knocked over by the Poweres Of Magyckkle Spelles then you get a 1000 dollars.

Just for the record. If the cup is knocked over, it was my doing.

Yeah, it would be a pretty awesome trick to knock over a cup that is NOT THERE. Cheater.

So you're watching The Matrix as well?

Just for the record. If the cup is knocked over, it was my doing.


I'd watch out lacadaemon, if they can use their Secrete Magyccke to knock a cup over, they might be able to knock YOU over. OVER DEAD.

Did I mention I'm married to a Wiccan High Priestess?

i think it is hysterically comical!

there is a quaint artsy fartsy town near me..with a bunch of goofy idiots acting all deep and conflicted..lol..and the business men/women, do quite the biz selling all kinds of wicca crap to the tourists.
not to mention the goth crowd.

ohhh... hocus pocus me lost focus..hehe

really,i think it is mostly disspossed girls/women that are searching for some type of empowerment,or some need to establish an identity of their own.and piss off their dads,or show how unique they are...lol..like the goths...a hundred kids dressed in black,wearing black lipstick...all saying how they are soooo different then society!
what a joke...they all look alike...yet are so different....puhleeze.

it is no different then when i went thru my "punk faze"
i thought i was so special and unique,until i looked around and realised there was a bunch of other idiots like me..thinking they were special and different!

then i realised....wow,grow the fuck up dude..no one really gives a shit either way what i dress like or whatever...do i do what i need to do..thats the bottom line.

i guess if it helps someone thru an identity crisis..then it serves it's purpose,or if it empowers a girl who feels powerless and needs something to claim as her uniqueness..fine...but reality is...you live life..you die!

there is no boogey man,there is no magic potion,there is no spell or magic wand...life, is what it is...period!

sounds cynical...but how is some earth religion any different then any religion?
you believe in something that makes you feel protected or empowered...when in reality...a frickin meteor could smash you into the ground tomorrow,and wicca/allah/jesus/nothing is going to stop it or change it.

life sucks(unless your fortunate..and even then)get over it...there is no magic wand you wave..your either happy on your own hook..or you aint!

by the way..if your a wiccan..i got some goats blood for sale..it cures all sorts of shit.

lol


Wow, you seem awfully sure that we live, we die, and that's all there is to it. Ever seen what the other side is like? Me neither, yet you don't hear me claiming anything specific.

So you're watching The Matrix as well?

What are you talking about now? What does a movie have to do with the utter lack of cups on your desk right now?

I'd watch out lacadaemon, if they can use their Secrete Magyccke to knock a cup over, they might be able to knock YOU over. OVER DEAD.

I am not worried. We've already established my immunity to Secrete Magyccke Speles because of my witch smeller heritage.

What are you talking about now? What does a movie have to do with the utter lack of cups on your desk right now?

Well if there is no cup then there must be no spoon. :p

What are you talking about now? What does a movie have to do with the utter lack of cups on your desk right now?


Not cups, cherie, cup, in the singular.

And it is conspicuously not knocked over.

So much for Hei "merlin" koku the magician...

Or is it Magycckiaene?

Well if there is no cup then there must be no spoon. :p

Ah, that joke. *rolleyes*

Not cups, cherie, cup, in the singular.

And it is conspicuously not knocked over.

So much for Hei "merlin" koku the magician...

Or is it Magycckiaene?

You see, if there were any cups on your desk, you'd not be feeling the need to keep on taunting. Why? Because you were insecure that people might find out. Now prove to me that there WAS ALREADY a cup on your desk and I'll send you 1000 bucks.

You see, if there were any cups on your desk, you'd not be feeling the need to keep on taunting. Why? Because you were insecure that people might find out. Now prove to me that there WAS ALREADY a cup on your desk and I'll send you 1000 bucks.


I think only the direct experience of using your Magycckle Spelles would prove that there was already a cup. Again, I yield to hei "merlin" koku the Magycckaeian and his Magycckkle Wiytcchherie!


PS: and you must admit, i was dead-on in that definition of astrology.
That was OED material!

I'm far too late to really comment on this thread but here goes anyway.

Wicca, a farce, a depressing farce. A mix of vague historical remembrances and ridiculous victorian gothic invention. Then butchered by 100 years of new age baseless mumbo jumbo and general ignorance.

Let me tell you this, wicca as it stands today was never a religion.

And no-one EVER thought the earth was flat. Ever.

PS.Hazzam Cabal Size Of A Chaffinch!

I'm far too late to really comment on this thread but here goes anyway.

Wicca, a farce, a depressing farce. A mix of vague historical remembrances and ridiculous victorian gothic invention. Then butchered by 100 years of new age baseless mumbo jumbo and general ignorance.

Let me tell you this, wicca as it stands today was never a religion.

And no-one EVER thought the earth was flat. Ever.

PS.Hazzam Cabal Size Of A Chaffinch!

Spend five minutes reading about theology and belief systems, at least, boy...

Spend five minutes reading about theology and belief systems, at least, boy...

Well i've done that, now what, wait for the ignorance to strike me down ?

I think only the direct experience of using your Magycckle Spelles would prove that there was already a cup. Again, I yield to hei "merlin" koku the Magycckaeian and his Magycckkle Wiytcchherie!


PS: and you must admit, i was dead-on in that definition of astrology.
That was OED material!

A) There is no cup. You've been beaten, no point denying it. And yes, there are reasons besides mere psychology skill by which I know that you don't have a cup on your desk.

B) No, it wasn't.

C) As a troll, you're pretty unskilled.

Well i've done that, now what, wait for the ignorance to strike me down ?


Don't hold your breath, the emperor fenix, this Covyyne of Wycctches hasnt managed to knock a simple cup over yet, your life is in no jeopardy

Well i've done that, now what, wait for the ignorance to strike me down ?

Considering for a moment that any belief system that includes a higher power is a religion, yes, you should do that. Now sit down. Adults (And Grenada) are talking.

A) There is no cup. You've been beaten, no point denying it. And yes, there are reasons besides mere psychology skill by which I know that you don't have a cup on your desk.

B) No, it wasn't.

C) As a troll, you're pretty unskilled.


A) "Nope, Try Again."

B) "Nope. Try Again."

C) "Nope, Not Yet. Try Again."

A) There is no cup. You've been beaten, no point denying it. And yes, there are reasons besides mere psychology skill by which I know that you don't have a cup on your desk.


Go on then, tell me what's on my desk.

I'm not shaking in my clogs as it is. I'm more worried by the religions that wern't invented as a literary supplement. At least Sceincetology was a good honest money making scheme.

Considering for a moment that any belief system that includes a higher power is a religion, yes, you should do that. Now sit down. Adults (And Grenada) are talking.
Excuse me now, i'm missing the point of your original objection.

Don't hold your breath, the emperor fenix, this Covyyne of Wycctches hasnt managed to knock a simple cup over yet, your life is in no jeopardy

Once they realize that it would be easier to walk in and knock the cup over themselves, that might change.

Hey, Hei "merlin" koku, I think you must have missed my shockingly cogent explanation of astrology.

This is the explanation that's correct:
Mysticckle Hoodoo Jive where sense and reason take a back seat to fantasy, and the positions of planets, stars and other celestial objects are pretended to have impacts on human lives.


And I made an illustration to illustrate the point:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f63/azmjs/hoodoo.jpg

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.

1. It is not new.

2. It is not sweeping the country.

3. It is just as silly as most religions. (Although it is more harmless than most religions.)

Wow, you seem awfully sure that we live, we die, and that's all there is to it. Ever seen what the other side is like? Me neither, yet you don't hear me claiming anything specific.


good point!

i am not claiming anything specific either..but i am saying that most religous nonsence is exactly that.

call it what you will,but i prefer to live in the now..and not count on some deity or hocus pocus to save me.or protect me..call me a realist i guess.

thats not to say i believe in nothing,i have no idea what to believe, i like to think that there is something bigger and better then what is in front of my face.
i just cant afford the luxury or the foolishness to trust MY LIFE to something intangible.
be it god/allah/wicca/anything..my priority is to survive as long as i want,take care of my kids..and be a good person(i do believe in kharma)

dont take my shrugging off of wicca or any religion as being "i know better" i dont mean it like that,i just don't know the truth,no one does till we die...i just was commenting on the generic nonsence that religion/psuedo religions try to sell.

again,if it helps a troubled kid,grappling with their identity...then i suppose it serves a purpose..a good one at that...for me...i am concerned with what i can deal with in the now!

damn,i wish i could swish some goats blood around and make my life fabulous...or take the body of christ and be forever safe.

i was an alter boy for 8 years,but i got kicked out of catholic school for selling the "body of christ" in the parking lot to the young kids in exchange for their lunch money.

so,i suppose i am horrible or i was just capitalising on the situation...either way..they told me..jesus forgives!

joking around aside,it is foolish imho to put your faith in anything other then yourself...and i dont mean being mercenary...just relying on your own strengths,and being decent.

if it makes you happy..it cant be that bad(sheryl crowe)

I'm far too late to really comment on this thread but here goes anyway.

Wicca, a farce, a depressing farce. A mix of vague historical remembrances and ridiculous victorian gothic invention. Then butchered by 100 years of new age baseless mumbo jumbo and general ignorance.

Let me tell you this, wicca as it stands today was never a religion.

And no-one EVER thought the earth was flat. Ever.

PS.Hazzam Cabal Size Of A Chaffinch!

Either you are highly confused or you need to work on your sarcasm skills.

joking around aside,it is foolish imho to put your faith in anything other then yourself...and i dont mean being mercenary...just relying on your own strengths,and being decent.

if it makes you happy..it cant be that bad(sheryl crowe)

Strength comes from different sources for different people. I do not know a SINGLE person in this world who doesn't have atleast one insecurity. Everybody has a habit. Everybody identifies with different things. For some people, it JUST HAPPENS to be what they think of as 'God' , a 'higher power', 'Etc.'

As for me, it happens to be my connection with nature. It calms me. It encourages my passion - it inspires me. It holds me when I'm upset; yes, it is a very real, very tangible thing to me. I feel a spirit in it. It breathes outside of me, and therefore inside of me. Try convincing me of anything else and you will see the life drain from my eyes.

Either you are highly confused or you need to work on your sarcasm skills.
Neither, you need to think a bit harder.

Neither, you need to think a bit harder.


Yeah maybe if cat tribe could think harder he'd post more sensible stuff.

He might even have, you know, gone to law school!

That dumb lazybrains!

Yeah maybe if cat tribe could think harder he'd post more sensible stuff.

He might even have, you know, gone to law school!

That dumb lazybrains!
Law School ! It's too late for law school, the age of rumpole of the bailey is over :(.

I'm not shaking in my clogs as it is. I'm more worried by the religions that wern't invented as a literary supplement. At least Sceincetology was a good honest money making scheme.

Meh.

By what evidence do you claim Wicca was "invented as a literary supplement"?

The thing people call wicca, but is in fact an excuse to have wild orgies and molest chickens - as well as what most Christians claim wicca is all about - I dislike.
Where do I sign up?

Also, It Really Hurts The Eyes To Look At Entire Paragraphs Typed In This Manner.

Neither, you need to think a bit harder.

The silliness (but unfunny silliness) of your posts isn't a problem on my part.

Law School ! It's too late for law school, the age of rumpole of the bailey is over :(.

Again, you should master the art of making sense before you try such tricky manuevers as humor or sarcasm.

Meh.

By what evidence do you claim Wicca was "invented as a literary supplement"?
None i can draw to my fingertips at this late our, as it is indeed time to retire. But let me assure you of this. The Victorians were very fond of making history more historical, Wicca the flatness of the earth and the noteriety of the spanish inquesition of some of the more notable results of this.

Wicca no doubt has basis in history, all good lies are based on truth. However wicca has been so diluted bya thousand different interpretations of what little remains of various pagan beliefs. Wicca is a hopelessly confused jumble of beliefs that i doubt even attempts to be unified.

And again, think to yourself, why is there the common belief that ancient cultures believed the world was flat, when no seafaring civilization could ever travel whilst believing that, and the circumfrence of the earth was worked out in ancient greek times.

Been there done that. Its basically whatever you want it to be and I feel it is highly overated. It does tend to gather a cult-ish mentality among the devotees and those who follow it tend to be more open to radical ideologies. In some groups they do encourage sex and drug usages as well.

Again, you should master the art of making sense before you try such tricky manuevers as humor or sarcasm.
Oh dear, oh dear... google is your freind if your brain doesnt pass muster.

Rumpole of the Bailey... you need to pick up a book every now and then, or even the TV it was on the TV i think, and it's on the radio... HOW CAN YOU MISS IT ?

Tell Me What You Think About This New Age Religion Called Wicca, Which Is Sweeping The Country. I've Done Some Research, It Looks Pretty Cool. Of Course, Ask The Average Over Zealous Christian, And You Won't Get The Answer I've Given. Possible Poll Soon.


Must you type like that?

Oh dear, oh dear... google is your freind if your brain doesnt pass muster.

Rumpole of the Bailey... you need to pick up a book every now and then, or even the TV it was on the TV i think, and it's on the radio... HOW CAN YOU MISS IT ?

I've seen every episode and read every one of John Mortimer's books. Your comments were still obtuse.

I've seen every episode and read every one of John Mortimer's books. Your comments were still obtruse.
They were not, is english your second language. And that's not honestly a question, i don't care about the answer.

They were not, is english your second language. And that's not honestly a question, i don't care about the answer.

Of the two of us, who is using correct grammar and punctuation (not to mention vocabulary)?

Of the two of us, who is using correct grammar and punctuation (not to mention vocabulary)?

To be fair, that does somewhat militate for you having english as a second language. I'm not sure he meant it that way though.

To be fair, that does somewhat militate for you having english as a second language. I'm not sure he meant it that way though.
:D

EDIT: Did he think I would find being compared to Rumpole an insult? Perish the thought.

i think it is hysterically comical!

there is a quaint artsy fartsy town near me..with a bunch of goofy idiots acting all deep and conflicted..lol..and the business men/women, do quite the biz selling all kinds of wicca crap to the tourists.
not to mention the goth crowd.

[...]

by the way..if your a wiccan..i got some goats blood for sale..it cures all sorts of shit.

lol

You are dead on. I give you the win for that.

And anyone that thinks I'm making fun of wicca or whatever to be cool, I couldn't care less about being "cool" about it. I like to point out what I think is stupid. Ideologies, religions (especially newer ones that don't have generations upon generations wrapped up in their tentacles) and blind idolism.

For those of you saying you're okay with religion "improving" the lives of others: Religion is not some harmless pick-me-up. It has done many, many negative things throughout history. While I don't think it's right (at least, not at this time) to say it's wrong to worship anyone or anything and fully support the freedom of religion, I personally believe that a highly religious man is like a horse with blinders. A rabid horse with blinders that wants to bite other horses.

That's IT!! You are all flaming "my" religion. I don't care what you say you are doing. People are not simply discussing weather they agree or disagree with it they are trying to rip it apart because they do not understand a freaking bit of it and have no common sense to not talk about something they don't know a thing about!!! Take some time to figure out what your talking about before you express your entirely uneducated opinion.

As for the stupid cup. you saw it fit to ignore my post about what non high school pagans call magic. It shows your ignorance that you keep pressing a matter I already cleared up. Its nothing more than another form of praying. So shut up about the cup.

I know it is very beyond my beliefs to go around telling people off. But you know what? I don't care this second. Cristian's go against there beliefs all the time. Look at the churches hiding paedophiles. Look at all the people that probably posted how they hate my religion when they are supposed to be tolerant. I don't think one of you believe in what you preach either. Unless you are all atheists. And to all the pagans fighting with the atheist, to each there own. There is no point fighting over beliefs with a faithless.

All religious paths who have posted negatively. Just remember I can degrade any other religion as much as you can mine. Point is I would go find what I was talking about first. Is it not better to have something to believe in than nothing?

If you really listen to the lessons we teach it is only construed as doing whatever pleases you. The phrase is "do what you will, least ye hurt non".
It means to live, life is a gift. Live it fully and do what makes you happy as long as you try your best to not hurt others on the way. It is a lot better lesson than I see people practicing in this the thread.

You all should be ashamed.

Give it up, Leafiana. Fuckwits like Granada are going to keep on thinking that Wicca has nothing to do with real beliefs and everything to do with wanting to be cool. There is no such thing as polite discussion on these forums, they're nothing but flamefests. Anyone who dares to be polite and rational is either ignored or shouted down. I could be polite in this post but then nobody would read it.

Give it up, Leafiana. Fuckwits like Granada are going to keep on thinking that Wicca has nothing to do with real beliefs and everything to do with wanting to be cool. There is no such thing as polite discussion on these forums, they're nothing but flamefests. Anyone who dares to be polite and rational is either ignored or shouted down. I could be polite in this post but then nobody would read it.

Why anyone would be interested in being inquisitively nice and polite to some nonconformist with 3 pots behind her belt who has entered the board in order to promote some goofball cult is beyond me.

Does she even actually HAVE an up and running NationState, or is she just here to spout some beliefs questionmark.

I do not know about other folks, but I am just a humble leader chilling out between resolving burning national issues...

I seem to recall a dilemma involving freedom of worship and was it blood rituals or virginsacrifice questionmark.
So I just outlawed religion altogether in BogMarsh.

Ok, Well Anyways, I'm Back From School. LazyHippies And Revasser, I Would Like To Thank You. Read Your Posts And You'll Know What I Mean.<snip>

No worries. Hopefully, if you filter out all the self-aggrandising and mutual back-patting of the "smart, sensible people" (:rolleyes:) in this thread, you'll actually find a bit of intelligent information on which you can start to form an opinion about Wicca. I'm only sorry that the actual Wiccans who ended up posting on the thread didn't get a chance to help you out and correct whatever errors I may have made before the "religion is teh evil!" and "lololol u nub beleve in maigc" crowd started up and the large-scale idiocy began.

If you want a bit of good info on Wicca and neopaganism in general, here are a few places to start. They're generally pretty low on fluff.

The Witches' Voice (http://www.witchvox.com/) - Plenty of informative articles and other stuff
Isaac Bonewits's Homepage (http://www.neopagan.net/) - Bonewits is well-known in neopagan circles and is a pretty smart guy. Also a druid, I believe.
Mystic Wicks (http://www.mysticwicks.com/) - A general pagan forum, with a bunch of informative threads and friendly people who can answer any questions you might have.

Its no more silly than any other belief system, and by that, I mean...its silly.
The only difference is, Wiccans tend to be more pretensious than others, and wear a lot of black, and dont try to convert anyone usually.

Ive met met a lot of Wiccans/Pagans......most of them were tools.

BogMarsh, the majority of people - you and me included - came in here with opinions already formed. You clearly think it's a load of crap that people do to be cool, and I think that anyone who does something solely to be "cool" is a complete idiot. But to say that every Wiccan is an idiot... well, obviously you would think that since you think Wicca is crap, but if people actually put some thought into things and come to a conclusion, at least they've thought about it. But then again, the vast majority of NSers tend to bash anyone who doesn't agree with them, so... there's really no point in defending anyone.

It's a deliberate self-delusion. There isn't even the excuse of indoctrination as with other religions.

Well said.

Heikoku, I Thank You, Along With Everyone Else Who HASN'T Been Beating Up On Wicca

Lacadaemon And New Granada, Along With Everyone Else Who HAS Been Beating Up On Wicca, FUCK YOU! I Studied A Lot About Wicca Last Night. Maybe You Should Too. Ok, So It Isn't Fast Growing. Oh Well. And Frankly, I Compared Real Wicca With "Charmed-Wicca" And Found Charmed Is 99.99 Percent Bullshit. Along With Buffy The Vampire Slayer. And Quite A Few Other Movies/Shows/Books. I May Not Agree With All Wiccan Beliefs, But At Least I Don't Beat Up On It And Post False Information About It Just To Beat It Up. In Fact, Wicca Is Seeming More And More Interesting To Me Every Day.

Heikoku, I Thank You, Along With Everyone Else Who HASN'T Been Beating Up On Wicca

Lacadaemon And New Granada, Along With Everyone Else Who HAS Been Beating Up On Wicca, FUCK YOU! I Studied A Lot About Wicca Last Night. Maybe You Should Too. Ok, So It Isn't Fast Growing. Oh Well. And Frankly, I Compared Real Wicca With "Charmed-Wicca" And Found Charmed Is 99.99 Percent Bullshit. Along With Buffy The Vampire Slayer. And Quite A Few Other Movies/Shows/Books. I May Not Agree With All Wiccan Beliefs, But At Least I Don't Beat Up On It And Post False Information About It Just To Beat It Up. In Fact, Wicca Is Seeming More And More Interesting To Me Every Day.


The links and facts I posted were true. Or do you want to go back and read them?