NationStates Jolt Archive

well, thats a start, and are you on MY side against the athiest? if a girl ever hits on you, go with it.

couldn't one say equivalently.. if a guy hits on u... go with it ? thats the road to turning gay for u ?

Im just curious when it was you seriously considered being gay vs being straight.

I think that's the best handling of a troll/flamebaiting ever. "Hey, thanks for the advice, but I'm happy how I am." I'm almost sorry I reported him now.
dang it, you repoted me?!?!? like he said, its well intentioned. im not trying to be agressive or anything. and like he also said, he doesnt like being gay. but if he cant change it, fine,not my problem.

I think that's the best handling of a troll/flamebaiting ever. "Hey, thanks for the advice, but I'm happy how I am." I'm almost sorry I reported him now.

lol. You reported him? I wouldn't have bothered. He means well, his arguments verge on reasonable. I am happy the way I am (now!) and if God truly loves me then he wants me to be happy. So I'm going to enjoy my life...

I think I handled him quite well. I was honest but tried not to aggravate him...

Oh and Longhorn Country if a girl hits on me I'll run... Sorry to disappoint.

well, thats a start, and are you on MY side against the athiest? if a girl ever hits on you, go with it.

Um, I'm not an atheist, friend. I'm a Christian who is familiar with the teachings of Jesus Christ. They're a good read. You should look them over. Particularly the ones that pretty much suggest that everything you've done in this thread is frowned upon.

couldn't one say equivalently.. if a guy hits on u... go with it ? thats the road to turning gay for u ?

Im just curious when it was you seriously considered being gay vs being straight.

well, im not on a forum saying i dont like being straight! if i didnt like who i am i WOULD change it!

dang it, you repoted me?!?!? like he said, its well intentioned. im not trying to be agressive or anything. and like he also said, he doesnt like being gay. but if he cant change it, fine,not my problem.

Well said. I can't change it. You can't change the fact that women's boobs excite you so much. And the whole thrust of my argument was to make you realise this. Well done... :)

well, im not on a forum saying i dont like being straight! if i didnt like who i am i WOULD change it!

to something else you dont like ? he just said he does like guys... but... dosn't like the ridicule u get from being homosexual.. should he then change to something that will give him less ridicule.. but less enjoyment? ... If people made fun of u for being straight.. would u start doing guys to fit in ?

lol. You reported him? I wouldn't have bothered. He means well, his arguments verge on reasonable. I am happy the way I am (now!) and if God truly loves me then he wants me to be happy. So I'm going to enjoy my life...

I think I handled him quite well. I was honest but tried not to aggravate him...

Oh and Longhorn Country if a girl hits on me I'll run... Sorry to disappoint.
maybe theres another path, do you get American football up there? check out the Red River Shootout. now THATS straight. soory, just advertiseing my team, the Texas Longhorns!!!! tomorrow!!!!!!

dang it, you repoted me?!?!? like he said, its well intentioned. im not trying to be agressive or anything. and like he also said, he doesnt like being gay. but if he cant change it, fine,not my problem.

You can't honestly believe that telling him he needs to be fed from a vagina falls into the realm of reasonable discussion, do you? I don't know what the mods will do, but I found what you had to say to be inappropriate and disruptive. Whether they agree remains to be seen, but either way, you could try to be a more reasonable poster by showing a modicrum of respect for other posters. It will do wonders for your argument and will keep you of the radar of the mods as well (not suggesting I can predict the outcome of the report).

to something else you dont like ? he just said he does like guys... but... dosn't like the ridicule u get from being homosexual.. should he then change to something that will give him less ridicule.. but less enjoyment? ... If people made fun of u for being straight.. would u start doing guys to fit in ?

Fair point... I wouldn't mind fitting in... But hey not gonna happen I guess. *sigh*

ok, thank you ardenlia, for the best troll handeling ever!(me) and the opposite to inventias and Jacobia.i still would never give up on converting you though, but good luck.

and again inventias, i believe what i was raised to believe. whatever my upbringing tells me, i follow, and not just my parents, but everything in my childhood(which i guess is kind of still going on) take place in that.

You can't honestly believe that telling him he needs to be fed from a vagina falls into the realm of reasonable discussion, do you? I don't know what the mods will do, but I found what you had to say to be inappropriate and disruptive. Whether they agree remains to be seen, but either way, you could try to be a more reasonable poster by showing a modicrum of respect for other posters. It will do wonders for your argument and will keep you of the radar of the mods as well (not suggesting I can predict the outcome of the report).

i was kidding, lighten up! jeeze!

ok, thank you ardenlia, for the best troll handeling ever!(me) and the opposite to inventias and Jacobia.i still would never give up on converting you though, but good luck.

and again inventias, i believe what i was raised to believe. whatever my upbringing tells me, i follow, and not just my parents, but everything in my childhood(which i guess is kind of still going on) take place in that.

argh... ignorance... your letting !!!ignorance!!! fluroish in your mind. Its in tolerable! Illogical! Deporable!!!! This is the result of a southern education. It only serves to propogate my position that education should be federalized !

As a woman I would very much like to thank Longhorn country for talking about us like we are at best a wonder cure for homosexuality and at worst some faceless piece of meat.

A homosexual isn't gay because they haven't 'tasted' a woman, or lesbian because they haven't found a man big enough to satisfy them.

For goodness sake that idea went out in the sixties.......

argh... ignorance... your letting !!!ignorance!!! fluroish in your mind. Its in tolerable! Illogical! Deporable!!!! This is the result of a southern education. It only serves to propogate my position that education should be federalized !

But that is why I am helping him. Getting angry at him doesn't help him understand. At least he's not stubborn. He's already accepted that if I'm gay and I can't change that, then it's not his problem.

Doesn't that mean we've taught him some tolerance?

No comment. . .

But I know for sure that closeted teenagers who are homosexuals will be disowned or heavily neglected no matter what. The rate of that is really 66% of all parents. 47% of parents abuse their children for being homosexuals. (Read it in Time Magazine).

Besides that, are you sure it isn't a phase? Or are you definalty sure you are a homosexual?

"The World Is Declining. . .Pollution, Homosexuals, Bisexuals, Transexuals And People Who Lose Religion Are The Reasons" - Anonymous.

--I know the reason why that person didn't want his name out when he wrote that quote.

As a woman I would very much like to thank Longhorn country for talking about us like we are at best a wonder cure for homasexuality and at best some faceless piece of meat.

A homosexual isn't gay because they haven't 'tasted' a woman, or lesbian because they haven't found a man big enough to satisfy them.

For goodness sake that idea went out in the sixties.......

And LMFAO. I hate it when men look at women like that too. Although from a gay man's point of view whereas i assume you're a straight or bisexual female...

As a woman I would very much like to thank Longhorn country for talking about us like we are at best a wonder cure for homasexuality and at best some faceless piece of meat.

A homosexual isn't gay because they haven't 'tasted' a woman, or lesbian because they haven't found a man big enough to satisfy them.

For goodness sake that idea went out in the sixties.......
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!! but really im sorry, looking back i see it IS offensive, and i really didnt mean it that way. i hope you accept my appology. but man that made me laugh! :D

But that is why I am helping him. Getting angry at him doesn't help him understand. At least he's not stubborn. He's already accepted that if I'm gay and I can't change that, then it's not his problem.

Doesn't that mean we've taught him some tolerance?

thank you! i didnt like that southern ed. crap either! understand though, i still dont support your homosexuality, but you do seem like an OK guy.

But that is why I am helping him. Getting angry at him doesn't help him understand. At least he's not stubborn. He's already accepted that if I'm gay and I can't change that, then it's not his problem.

Doesn't that mean we've taught him some tolerance?

its not anger.. just frustration.. that an education system could fail so utterly... to produce a citizen so incapable of grasping mere logic! Atleast if we federalized the education system, we could bring hope to the western and southern states T_T

[QUOTE=The Genius Masterminds]
Besides that, are you sure it isn't a phase? Or are you definalty sure you are a homosexual?

[QUOTE]


Pretty sure it's not a phase thanks for the advice. I don't think phases last 3-4 years! lol.

I've never fancied a woman and had plenty of crushes on guys. If it was a phase, I would expect it to be over exactly -3 years in the future... :rolleyes:

its not anger.. just frustration.. that an education system could fail so utterly... to produce a citizen so incapable of grasping mere logic! Atleast if we federalized the education system, we could bring hope to the western and southern states T_T
it has nothing to do with public education! now your just bringing up bad stereotypes!

thank you! i didnt like that southern ed. crap either! understand though, i still dont support your homosexuality, but you do seem like an OK guy.

To be honest, I'm English and really couldn't care less about the American education system but like you said I'm a nice enough guy and the way I look at it is that homosexuality harms no-one.

I don't expect you to support it. If I wanted you to do that, that would be tantamount to making you gay. I merely ask that you respect the right for consensing adults to practise whatever sex they wish and that you don't OPPOSE my homosexuality.

What I am trying to acheive is that you won't call people for being homosexuals and you won't be innately prejudiced against them. Me, like many others, are just normal people.

As long as you accept gays as a part of society and "Live and Let Live" then I won't feel a need to lecture you anymore. lol.

it has nothing to do with public education! now your just bringing up bad stereotypes!

But it does.. it has EVERYTHIng to do with education... for with a proper education you would pull apart the things you belive, analyzie them, understand them... and through use of logic would find the facilies in your ideals! And there is no sterotype of the inferiority of state contoled education. To think, children will soon be taught philosophy in a science class T_T (it crushes my heart)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!! but really im sorry, looking back i see it IS offensive, and i really didnt mean it that way. i hope you accept my appology. but man that made me laugh! :D

Oh I'm really pleased that you feel that I should be laughed at for telling you that your words are offencive.
Somehow it doesn't sort of make your apology feel sincere.

Ardalia,

I am a white hetrosexual athiest woman.
But fail to see if that matters. I hate anyone been seen like that either because of colour, religion or sexual preference.

is it the blood? its the blood isnt it? come on i believe in you! you CAN go straight!

Knock off the baiting, NOW.

thank you! i didnt like that southern ed. crap either! understand though, i still dont support your homosexuality, but you do seem like an OK guy.

So you don't support him being a homosexual, but you find that you need to try and force him to become straight with the language that you have used? Personally that sounds like flamebaiting to me. It is his decision to be what he wants to be. And being homosexual isn't unnatural and it hasn't been around for as short of a time period as people say. Homosexuals have been around for the greater part of 700 years (maybe even since the beginning of time. Facts are sketchy at best before that 700 year era). And no where in the bible does it say "God hates gays". President Bush just wants people to think that (like most brainwashing people, IE Hitler). it's about time that people accept that Homosexuals have been around for a long time, and they will be around till the end of time. There is nothing you can do to "Make him straight" so i suggest that you stop trying.

Quite honestly, you may be surprised at their reaction. Mine started crying -_-. Anyway, i think you should at least come out to your friends. Parents, if they really WOULD disown you, i would suggest leaving them for last...

Ardalia,

I am a white hetrosexual athiest woman.
But fail to see if that matters. I hate anyone been seen like that either because of colour, religion or sexual preference.

I only brought up your gender and sexuality to point out that you have a different viewpoint to me... Sorry if I offended you... I don't think it matters.

White Gay Christian Male.

Btw, i'm trying to get rid of prejudice not encourage it, just for the records.

Another thing I'd really like to point out is that it isn't a choice at all...

Longhorn, if youre here to try and 'convert' anyone here, youre seriously wasting your time and i might just have to do the same to you ;d

The best tactic for getting a straight homophobe to leave you alone is to seduse him ;)

is baiting and trolling the same? ive been kicked off 3 differnt forums.sorry though, it didnt occur to me "well, maybe im offending 6000 views worth of people". im leaving now, maybe be back later


,zoidberg

Longhorn, if youre here to try and 'convert' anyone here, youre seriously wasting your time and i might just have to do the same to you ;d

The best tactic for getting a straight homophobe to leave you alone is to seduse him ;)

perhaps that is what he actually seeks >.> .... the irony.

Longhorn, if youre here to try and 'convert' anyone here, youre seriously wasting your time and i might just have to do the same to you ;d

The best tactic for getting a straight homophobe to leave you alone is to seduse him ;)

LMAO

Another gay aiding in the fight against the masses of homophobes? :fluffle:

perhaps that is what he actually seeks >.> .... the irony.
lol, yeah, sometimes thats the story, but its hard to get them out of their shell.

But it does.. it has EVERYTHIng to do with education... for with a proper education you would pull apart the things you belive, analyzie them, understand them... and through use of logic would find the facilies in your ideals! And there is no sterotype of the inferiority of state contoled education. To think, children will soon be taught philosophy in a science class T_T (it crushes my heart)

Schools are there to teach people the facts, good education manages to generate debate, but it isn't the education system that causes this way of thinking.

It is social education that is to blame.
You don't have to be 'well educated' to have some form of moral code or to value people for who they are and not what they are.

My father is almost 75, he is very poorly 'educated', yet he has always believed that an individual should be judged on their own merrits not because they have some form of identifiable 'mark', like colour or religion or sexual preference.
My mother was educated to very high standarsd, yet she also has the same values and opinions, so I am afraid the theory is blown, at least in my experiences.

LMAO

Another gay aiding in the fight against the masses of homophobes? :fluffle:
lmao its not a fight, its a war :mp5:

I only brought up your gender and sexuality to point out that you have a different viewpoint to me... Sorry if I offended you... I don't think it matters.

White Gay Christian Male.

Btw, i'm trying to get rid of prejudice not encourage it, just for the records.

Another thing I'd really like to point out is that it isn't a choice at all...

i think i missed something. but if what you were trying to say is that women are more accepting of gays than men, yes. i know females who make friends with gay guys BECAUSE they are gay guys. how do you feel about this Ardilia? i adress this to you because your the only one i like ;)

Look your sexual preferences are your own and you shouldn't care what some people say. It is always better to come out and say what you are because there will always be some people who will support you and they will be the ones you should truly be with. If your parents don't accept the fact right away they will eventually. My advice is to go for it and don't let any narrow minded homophobic skinheads tell you otherwise.

Look your sexual preferences are your own and you shouldn't care what some people say. It is always better to come out and say what you are because there will always be some people who will support you and they will be the ones you should truly be with. If your parents don't accept the fact right away they will eventually. My advice is to go for it and don't let any narrow minded homophobic skinheads tell you otherwise.
well said..but strike the skinheads next time :p

i think i missed something. but if what you were trying to say is that women are more accepting of gays than men, yes. i know females who make friends with gay guys BECAUSE they are gay guys. how do you feel about this Ardilia? i adress this to you because your the only one i like ;)

I'm the only one you like? lol. I've made a straight friend. Wow. And I converted him from homophobia. I'm proud! ;)

I don't mind it when women want to be friends with me. I like having guy friends to play soccer, watch TV and all that kind of stuff.

And I like having a couple of them girly friends to discuss fit guys and slightly girlier stuff. lol.

Women are in general more accepting of gays than men. Don't know why...

lmao its not a fight, its a war :mp5:

I love you already. lol. You're so funny. Don't worry I'm not flirting. :fluffle:

I'm the only one you like? lol. I've made a straight friend. Wow. And I converted him from homophobia. I'm proud! ;)

I don't mind it when women want to be friends with me. I like having guy friends to play soccer, watch TV and all that kind of stuff.

And I like having a couple of them girly friends to discuss fit guys and slightly girlier stuff. lol.

Women are in general more accepting of gays than men. Don't know why...
Probably because they 'bat for the same team'. lol

I love you already. lol. You're so funny. Don't worry I'm not flirting. :fluffle:
lmao. must be the music -listens to the queers- :cool:

Probably because they 'bat for the same team'. lol

Guess so. But still what do straight guys have against gay guys? I'm not stereotyping but I do know a number of straight guys that make fun of and pretend to be scared of gay guys to take the piss. That annoys me...

And that raises an important question:

Do gay guys fancy the same types of guys in general as straight women? Hmmm. Even I don't know the answer to that one. lol

I'm the only one you like? lol. I've made a straight friend. Wow. And I converted him from homophobia. I'm proud! ;)

I don't mind it when women want to be friends with me. I like having guy friends to play soccer, watch TV and all that kind of stuff.

And I like having a couple of them girly friends to discuss fit guys and slightly girlier stuff. lol.

Women are in general more accepting of gays than men. Don't know why...

ok, you just said stuff that made me want to rethink the friend thing,lol
1.soccer? OMG! did you not see the american football thing? if you can PPV it, or something.
2.girlly friends? you didnt give up mascuinity did you? ohh how could you!
3.i still dont like the homo thing, for the record.
justkidding about not wanting to be forum friends too.

lmao. must be the music -listens to the queers- :cool:

music? Huh? Lost ya now sorry.

Originally Posted by Ardalia
I only brought up your gender and sexuality to point out that you have a different viewpoint to me... Sorry if I offended you... I don't think it matters.

Nope you didn't offend me at all, I knew what you meant.
However, everyones opinions are different to everyone elses.

As for the topic in hand?

As a mother, myself and my partner have often talked about my daughters first sexual encounter.
We have made it quite clear to her that no matter what her preference is, it is fine by us. We want her to be happy, not have to skulk around and be frightened of telling us something that important.

Guess so. But still what do straight guys have against gay guys? I'm not stereotyping but I do know a number of straight guys that make fun of and pretend to be scared of gay guys to take the piss. That annoys me...

And that raises an important question:

Do gay guys fancy the same types of guys in general as straight women? Hmmm. Even I don't know the answer to that one. lol
I think most of the straights that do it just do it because their friends do, and they wanna be cool :/

But i think the answer to your question cant be answered because everyone has different tastes, its subjectional.

gtg for now, ta ta!

ok, you just said stuff that made me want to rethink the friend thing,lol
1.soccer? OMG! did you not see the american football thing? if you can PPV it, or something.
2.girlly friends? you didnt give up mascuinity did you? ohh how could you!
3.i still dont like the homo thing, for the record.
justkidding about not wanting to be forum friends too.

a) We don't get American football over here and isn't it the same as rugby anyways?

b) Girly friends are funny. Trust me... :) And no, my masculinity is perfectly intact. I don't own a single pink Tshirt lol.

c) You dont have to like the homo thing. Just have to accept it. There's a difference.

Originally Posted by Ardalia
I only brought up your gender and sexuality to point out that you have a different viewpoint to me... Sorry if I offended you... I don't think it matters.

Nope you didn't offend me at all, I knew what you meant.
However, everyones opinions are different to everyone elses.


Coolness

a) We don't get American football over here and isn't it the same as rugby anyways?

b) Girly friends are funny. Trust me... :) And no, my masculinity is perfectly intact. I don't own a single pink Tshirt lol.

c) You dont have to like the homo thing. Just have to accept it. There's a difference.

http://www.longhorns.edu
may not work. but no its better than rugby. and i hope you dont talk with an accent. but if the chance to introduce you to a girl comes up, i would.

http://www.longhorns.edu
may not work. but no its better than rugby. and i hope you dont talk with an accent. but if the chance to introduce you to a girl comes up, i would.

lol. I don't think I have an accent but you probably reckon you don't have one. I find American accents quite funny tbh. No offence like.

The link didn't work btw.

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/football/ncaa/specials/bowls/2004/01/01/rose.bowl/tx_young.jpg

ok, i have to admit, im gay for this man, being the longhorn fan i am. you notice hes playing michigan, thats the Rose Bowl. great game, he had 192 rushing yards 4 rushing touchdowns, over 100 yrds throwing, and 1 passing touchdown. hes a heisman canadate too!

a) We don't get American football over here and isn't it the same as rugby anyways?
b) Girly friends are funny. Trust me... :) And no, my masculinity is perfectly intact. I don't own a single pink Tshirt lol.

c) You dont have to like the homo thing. Just have to accept it. There's a difference.

Yes we do!
It's on channel five mostly.
And now, as I come from a family of rugby players AND have played myself, you have completely and utterly insulted me! *grins*

'Effeminate' gays have their place, the same as 'girly' girls and 'butch' lesbians and 'mens' men.
It's what makes people interesting.
My social group is a mixture of all and they are equally as entertaining, interesting and worthy.

There shouldn't be the need to 'like' or 'dislike' homosexuals or any other group of people other than whether you like them as people.

I have never felt the need to walk up to someone and tell them what religion I am, how old I am, what my education level is or my sexual preference and don't feel the need for anyone else to do it.
If those things come up later in relavent conversations, then yes I'll discuss it, but only in context.

http://www.longhorns.edu
may not work. but no its better than rugby. and i hope you dont talk with an accent. but if the chance to introduce you to a girl comes up, i would.

actually most girls find the english accent extremely attractive.

Yes we do!
It's on channel five mostly.
And now, as I come from a family of rugby players AND have played myself, you have completely and utterly insulted me! *grins*

'Effeminate' gays have their place, the same as 'girly' girls and 'butch' lesbians and 'mens' men.
It's what makes people interesting.
My social group is a mixture of all and they are equally as entertaining, interesting and worthy.

There shouldn't be the need to 'like' or 'dislike' homosexuals or any other group of people other than whether you like them as people.

I have never felt the need to walk up to someone and tell them what religion I am, how old I am, what my education level is or my sexual preference and don't feel the need for anyone else to do it.


If those things come up later in relavent conversations, then yes I'll discuss it, but only in context.

thank you!!!! everyone tommorrow channel 5! Ut vs OU!!!!
watch!!!!

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/football/ncaa/specials/bowls/2004/01/01/rose.bowl/tx_young.jpg

ok, i have to admit, im gay for this man, being the longhorn fan i am. you notice hes playing michigan, thats the Rose Bowl. great game, he had 192 rushing yards 4 rushing touchdowns, over 100 yrds throwing, and 1 passing touchdown. hes a heisman canadate too!

Oh come on Loghorn, this doesn't help.......

but im such a huge fan!!!!

actually most girls find the english accent extremely attractive.

what about american gays? They like it too? Cos girls finding me attractive doesn't really help me...

what about american gays? They like it too? Cos girls finding me attractive doesn't really help me...

of coarse it does! now you can have an American girlfriend!

of coarse it does! now you can have an American girlfriend!

How many times... *sighs*

Ardalia,
Hetrosexual men find it 'sexy', so I don't see why gay men wouldn't.

Longhorn,

So you are telling me that because you like this football player you would happily perform a homosexual act with him?

(And please stop the 'girlfriend' thing will you? It's getting very very tiresome.)

So you are telling me that because you like this football player you would happily perform a homosexual act with him?

well, maybe shake hands...

come to think of it, where is the guy who made this thread? is he dead, courtosy of his parents?

Right THAT is enough!

You are pushing yourself towards being flagged to the Mods again.

Firstly you are belittling people by your glib remarks about 'turning gay' because you like a fottball star, as though it's something that can be turned on and off like a tap.

Now you make comments about the poor guy who started this thread, joking that he 'may be dead'.

That is enough.
It is not funny and you are just showing a simple and ignorant lack of understanding by attempting to practice your wit on this thread.

I don't know what the mods will do, but I found what you had to say to be inappropriate and disruptive. Whether they agree remains to be seen, but either way, you could try to be a more reasonable poster by showing a modicrum of respect for other posters. It will do wonders for your argument and will keep you of the radar of the mods as well (not suggesting I can predict the outcome of the report).try to be a more reasonable poster....It..will keep you of the radar of the mods..
*snippedLOL...You are making it sound as if the "radars" happen by itself...

He was not on the "Mod radars" until you asked the mods to deal with him...

I dont mind your complaining all the time...
Maybe complaining to the Mods all the time is the Christian way(your way).

But please dont talk about the "Mod radars" like if you had nothing to do with it.

...joking that he 'may be dead'.the way I read it...he is wondering why is he not replying...

LOL...You are making it sound as if the "radars" happen by itself...

He was not on the "Mod radars" until you asked the mods to deal with him...

I dont mind your complaining all the time...
Maybe complaining to the Mods all the time is the Christian way(your way).

But please dont talk about the "Mod radars" like if you had nothing to do with it.

Whether he reported this to the mods or not, is there any need for that?
Why bother with a dig when you can and did put your point across very clearly without?


the way I read it...he is wondering why is he not replying...
Yes, he was, but why add the oh so not funny remark at the end?

come to think of it, where is the guy who made this thread? is he dead, courtosy of his parents?

ive been catching up reading all these 15 or so pages that have developed since i left.

keep arguing! it was getting interesting, although some arguments were based in pure idiocy

Don't say anything, but don't hide it. Once they eventually catch you in bed with a dude, and say "Why didn't you tell us?" say "You never asked."

Don't say anything, but don't hide it. Once they eventually catch you in bed with a dude, and say "Why didn't you tell us?" say "You never asked."

I'd go for that too, for the sheer scandal value.

The son of God was not God, not to say your wrong. if you ever come to Texas let me know. ill get you a girl. and another thing, fancy sounds more british to me. :) . try getting into a meaningful relationship, where personality matters.
but dont do a sex change, thats just where they mutalate your penis and cut off your balls. you dont even get ovaries! but the relationship thing, try it.
As a transsexual, three years post-op...I find that comment to be ignorant, rude, and insensitive.
You try seeing what kind of anguish it is to live with Gender Identity Disorder! You see what it is like, every day, feeling like an alien in your own body!
Fortunately, for most people, their gender identity matches their nirth anatomy. For some, like me, it did not. And it is HELL. And it has NOTHING whatever to do with my sexual orientation, because I am actually Asexual, meaning I am attracted to neither men nor women...I want no sex with anyone or anything, ever.
I'm going to assume you are a guy. I am going to, for the sake of this scenario, assume that you are a guy, and that you think and feel like a guy.

Can you imagine the anguish and the awkwardness you'd feel if somehow, magically, you woke up tomorrow morning as a girl? But you still felt and thought like a guy? Wouldn't that totally fucking SUCK for you?? To be trapped in a girl's body, and feeling like a guy?

Now, maybe you get some small idea of what I felt like, growing up. Except that I was, in my mind, heart, soul and spirit a girl...but trapped in a guy's body. I never felt like a guy, never thought like a guy, never wanted to be a guy, never was interested in "guy" activities...none of it. I was thoroughly a girl from the earliest I can remember, all's I ever wanted to do was to hang out with girls, do girl things, and just be one of the girls.

Finally, I managed, three years ago, to have my operation. In order to afford it, I had to have my surgery done in Thailand, halfway around the world, and with NO-ONE there to support me. Oh, my mom was on the other end of the phone, she stood by me, but it wasn't the same as having her there, with me! Yet, I did all that, because the alternative was suicide, or self-mutilation. I lierally would have suicided, or performed self-surgery on myself, actually cutting off the parts I felt were birth defects, if there was no other way.

Maybe you think I'm sick. I don't care what you think, because your very words above have exposed to me your insensitive and ignorant nature. And before you fly off the handle, let me remind you that the word "ignorant" is NOT a synonym for "stupid," actually, "ignorant" literally means "uninformed." And you have shown yourself to be both uninformed, and insensitive...and probably unwilling to become informed, either.

But I wasn't about to let your insensitivity slide. I intend to point it out.

ive been catching up reading all these 15 or so pages that have developed since i left.

keep arguing! it was getting interesting, although some arguments were based in pure idiocy

good to see you.
and to whoever said that, i CAN turn it on and off like a tab.
and my brother WAS drunk by 5:30.
and i havent used wit.... ever.
and now this thread is gay.
and the longhorns are huge favorites.
and this reminds me of on "The Cosby Show" Theo was arguing with Cliff to accept him for who he was, whether he went to collage or not because he 'was his son'.and Cliff said,"Theo, that is the dumbest thing i ever heard!" i see this happening to you, but a happy ending would be nice.
so have you told them yet?
real advice: try to make it emotional, make them cry. this is a serious matter, treat it like it. and if they cry, cry with them.

is it the blood? its the blood isnt it? come on i believe in you! you CAN go straight!

Is it the hairy ass?? It's the hairy ass, isn't it?? Come on, I believe in you!! You CAN go gay!!

maybe theres another path, do you get American football up there? check out the Red River Shootout. now THATS straight. soory, just advertiseing my team, the Texas Longhorns!!!! tomorrow!!!!!!
Embarrassing to think there is something I agree with this guy on...as a former Austin resident of nine years, I have to say HOOK 'EM HORNS!!

Im 16 and really want to come out but am afraid that my parents might just think its a phase and totally ignore it


Then I suggest you do it with a bang. I suggest you organise some kind of gay orgy on your front lawn at six in the morning.

or might disown me.

In that case, same as above, but on camers. That makes you a porn star, and everyone knows porn stars make big money.

Alternatively, if that all seems a little weird, use your trusty friend rohypnol on your dad and do what comes naturally. ;)

i think i missed something. but if what you were trying to say is that women are more accepting of gays than men, yes. i know females who make friends with gay guys BECAUSE they are gay guys. how do you feel about this Ardilia? i adress this to you because your the only one i like ;)
The main reason for that is that the girl knows that the gay guy is no threat to her...he doesn't want anything from her. I know lots of straight girls who hang out at gay bars for that very reason...they don't want to be bothered.

I, myself, hang out at gay bars for largely the same reason. As a transsexual, I know that the gay guys aren't interested in me...and neither are most of the lesbians. and I don't stand a good chance of getting lynched...which could happen to me in some straight bars!

Im 16 and really want to come out but am afraid that my parents might just think its a phase and totally ignore it or might disown me.

Im looking for advice maybe from gays who have come out.

What was your experience like? Were your friends and family supportive?

Well, I'm not gay, but everyone seems to think I am and they are okay with me.

This is interesting because I see so many examples in the world of people being ignorant and stupid towards this. If your parents disown you because you're gay, then seriously, they are asses. That is not a legitimate reason not to love and care for your children. Relating to this though, I heard a story about a kid in my city who was in tears when he told his dad he was gay because he was adpoted from Eastern Europe and he was worried that if he told them he was gay, they would make him go back there. His parents were anything but critical, as they still love him as much as they did before, and if nothing more, are more defensive of him when he's "picked on" because of this. Hopefully, you have an outcome like this.

Im 16 and really want to come out but am afraid that my parents might just think its a phase and totally ignore it or might disown me.

Im looking for advice maybe from gays who have come out.

What was your experience like? Were your friends and family supportive?

Well, I'm not gay, but everyone seems to think I am and they are okay with me. Here have a fluffle :fluffle:

I'm the only one you like? lol. I've made a straight friend. Wow. And I converted him from homophobia. I'm proud! ;)

I don't mind it when women want to be friends with me. I like having guy friends to play soccer, watch TV and all that kind of stuff.

And I like having a couple of them girly friends to discuss fit guys and slightly girlier stuff. lol.

Women are in general more accepting of gays than men. Don't know why...

I do. Because men are frightened of homosexuals. It is seen by most men as somehow "unmanning" them if a gay guy comes on to them.
Girls are generally more secure with, and comfortable with their own sexuality. That is because girls are not raised to constantly question themselves, and test themselves, and to wonder if they measure up. They do not equate their femaleness with sexual orientation or with sexual prowess.

Men, on the other hand...are brought up to constantly question themselves, to wonder if they measure up to being "a real man" whatever the hell that is...and men DO equate their masculinity with sexual orientation and sexual prowess. See how a group of guys acts towards a 21 year old guy who admits he's a virgin...the guys will all turn on him and accuse him of being gay, or will at least ask him if he is. He will be seen by the other guys as less of a man for his lack of sexual prowess. The same is not true for women.

And that, I think, is a lot of the reason why women are more accepting than men of homosexuality...and transgenderism, too.

As a transsexual, three years post-op...I find that comment to be ignorant, rude, and insensitive.
You try seeing what kind of anguish it is to live with Gender Identity Disorder! You see what it is like, every day, feeling like an alien in your own body!
Fortunately, for most people, their gender identity matches their nirth anatomy. For some, like me, it did not. And it is HELL. And it has NOTHING whatever to do with my sexual orientation, because I am actually Asexual, meaning I am attracted to neither men nor women...I want no sex with anyone or anything, ever. I'm going to assume you are a guy. I am going to, for the sake of this scenario, assume that you are a guy, and that you think and feel like a guy.

Can you imagine the anguish and the awkwardness you'd feel if somehow, magically, you woke up tomorrow morning as a girl? But you still felt and thought like a guy? Wouldn't that totally fucking SUCK for you?? To be trapped in a girl's body, and feeling like a guy?

Now, maybe you get some small idea of what I felt like, growing up. Except that I was, in my mind, heart, soul and spirit a girl...but trapped in a guy's body. I never felt like a guy, never thought like a guy, never wanted to be a guy, never was interested in "guy" activities...none of it. I was thoroughly a girl from the earliest I can remember, all's I ever wanted to do was to hang out with girls, do girl things, and just be one of the girls.

Finally, I managed, three years ago, to have my operation. In order to afford it, I had to have my surgery done in Thailand, halfway around the world, and with NO-ONE there to support me. Oh, my mom was on the other end of the phone, she stood by me, but it wasn't the same as having her there, with me! Yet, I did all that, because the alternative was suicide, or self-mutilation. I lierally would have suicided, or performed self-surgery on myself, actually cutting off the parts I felt were birth defects, if there was no other way.

Maybe you think I'm sick. I don't care what you think, because your very words above have exposed to me your insensitive and ignorant nature. And before you fly off the handle, let me remind you that the word "ignorant" is NOT a synonym for "stupid," actually, "ignorant" literally means "uninformed." And you have shown yourself to be both uninformed, and insensitive...and probably unwilling to become informed, either.

But I wasn't about to let your insensitivity slide. I intend to point it out.
what kind of thread is this? first of all, whether you liked the parts or not, i think being asexual makes you a bigger man than me(please dont say it) and noone there? ouch!
and lastly, suicide is not the answer. id turn to what people on here call an "ancient religion". if anything Christ is what makes me ignorent. then you call it what i call it, mutilation, and that really isnt the answer!

i saw this acctually on discovery or some channel near it. the little boy had 2 moms, and thats wrong. but i understand it must have been a nad existence, and im SORRY. to yet ANOTHER PERSON!!!

ok, you just said stuff that made me want to rethink the friend thing,lol
1.soccer? OMG! did you not see the american football thing? if you can PPV it, or something.
2.girlly friends? you didnt give up mascuinity did you? ohh how could you!
3.i still dont like the homo thing, for the record.
justkidding about not wanting to be forum friends too.

See what I mean! My very words proved before your eyes! I hadn't yet read this post when I responded to the previous one. But there it is for you...

Oh, and on edit: I never gave up masculinity either...because I never had it in the first place. What I had was a good enough act to keep myself from getting my ass kicked every day after school, and that is all I had.

what kind of thread is this? first of all, whether you liked the parts or not, i think being asexual makes you a bigger man than me(please dont say it) and noone there? ouch!
and lastly, suicide is not the answer. id turn to what people on here call an "ancient religion". if anything Christ is what makes me ignorent. then you call it what i call it, mutilation, and that really isnt the answer!

i saw this acctually on discovery or some channel near it. the little boy had 2 moms, and thats wrong. but i understand it must have been a nad existence, and im SORRY. to yet ANOTHER PERSON!!!
Can you possibly BE more insulting? To yourself...AND to me??

thats it! i take back the sorrys! everything ive said is true, mostly, except that women have healing powers, but even in that case your all a bunch of overly sensitive, whatevers!

Can you possibly BE more insulting? To yourself...AND to me??
i said please dont say it! but i should have known better!

i said please dont say it! but i should have known better!
Well...then why did YOU say it?
You still haven't answered the question...can you possibly BE more insulting?
To suggest that I am, in any way...a man...or a bigger man? Jesus, how insulting!! Now, if you said a bigger WOMAN, I would be okay with that. Or even just "a bigger person."
But...a bigger MAN??
Me?
Can you possibly be more insulting?

like i also said, YOU'RE TO OVERSENSITIVE!!! i think that because you think that what you did is viewed as "sick" you take every litle mention as predjeduce. you said you didnt care, but you seem pretty sensitive about it to me!

Well...then why did YOU say it?
You still haven't answered the question...can you possibly BE more insulting?
To suggest that I am, in any way...a man...or a bigger man? Jesus, how insulting!! Now, if you said a bigger WOMAN, I would be okay with that. Or even just "a bigger person."
But...a bigger MAN??
Me?
Can you possibly be more insulting?

Lyric, people like you are the precise reason that feminists are looked down upon and ridiculed as impossible-to-reason-with, left-wing extremists. You've done nothing in your posts here except slander and defame men as idiots, bigots and liars. FYI, if it weren't for a man of some sort, you would not exist (hey, that might not be such a bad thing!).

Since I am a classic example of America's "majority" (being white, male, Christian, straight and working class), I can't say that I speak from experience about being discriminated against (although hating Christians seems to be the hip new style of persecution, on these forums and in real life), but I think you're being extremely arrogant and misguided with your generalizations, trash talk, and overall attempts at intimidation on these forums. Hast thee no decency?

With your first few posts, you were making a lot of good arguments, and I applaud you on that. However, the further you went in, the more sweeping generalizations you made, and the more absurd you sounded. You've referred to men as people that just sit around and play poker games while having bad incidents of gas and downing about eleven beers per hour. If I said something along the lines of "Women are a bunch of emotional slutty ass bitches that only care about their jewelry and appearance and get jealous whenever their boyfriends make eye contact with any other chick", I would be ridiculed and shamed, and rightly so! But because you seem to be a gay-male-turned-female, you use your "I'm rejected by society, pity me!" card to shield yourself from any possible argument, much as Cindy Sheehan has been doing with her "I'm a grieving mother, I HAVE ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO DO!" card over the past three months. It's irony like that that ensures you will never be taken seriously by me or any sane, comprehensible human being.

Seriously, you're making a big deal over someone saying "Be the better man"? In case you're historically inept (like most lefties), "man" is just a short-term for "human". The term has been used ever since the age of the pharaohs, it's not prejudiced, and you're only embarrassing yourself and hurting your own arguments by saying otherwise. Just as I don't expect gays to get upset if I don't refer to them in long-term as "homosexual males" (and to you gays out there, way to be a good sport about it! I salute you), you shouldn't get upset over someone calling you a "(hu)man". Unless you'd like to argue that you are not, in fact, human? Which I wouldn't quite put out of your insanity range, given your well-documented past on this forum...

I guess the message I'm trying to put out there is, put shortly, u r t3|-| $u><><0r0rz! Lighten up, and QUIT WITH THE GENERALIZATIONS AND PREJUDICE! You're every bit as bad as the men you claim to hate. You're the perfect example of the ever-frequent human quality known as projection, and I think I speak for most of us when I say "Lighten up, or shut up."

By mine own hand,
Imperial President Garth A. Fedrece, Sr.

I'm not going near the various arguments presented here. Some of them are quite amusing, others seem destined to end in DEATion.

In regards to the original question:

You can never know how your parents will react. I still don't know how my Dad will. Gone through every possible scenario in my head, and I simply don't know him well enough to predict his actions. He's not violent, which is at lest a start.
I told Mum months back, and she barely battered an eyelid. So I doubt I'll get disowned, but still I don't really know.
I told my friends on the school's Year 12 forum (run by prefects, not teachers). Seemed much easier to get it out of the way that way. I've always been far more expressive on the Net than in person. No problems. A few people couldn't believe it and asked me to my face, then accepted it.

My advice: Well, pretty much boils down to being careful. It might be better to tell your parents seperately. That way you can have one on-side to start with, regardless of how the other one goes.

Ahhhhh so now we are stereotyping....Oh ok I see another one of the way you "guys" are tolerant. I am actually Jewish.....You dont have to be Christian to be against gays...you just have to have an IQ above 10.

Flamebait. Warned.

<SNIP>
In regards to the original question:

You can never know how your parents will react. I still don't know how my Dad will. Gone through every possible scenario in my head, and I simply don't know him well enough to predict his actions. He's not violent, which is at lest a start.
I told Mum months back, and she barely battered an eyelid. So I doubt I'll get disowned, but still I don't really know.
I told my friends on the school's Year 12 forum (run by prefects, not teachers). Seemed much easier to get it out of the way that way. I've always been far more expressive on the Net than in person. No problems. A few people couldn't believe it and asked me to my face, then accepted it.

My advice: Well, pretty much boils down to being careful. It might be better to tell your parents seperately. That way you can have one on-side to start with, regardless of how the other one goes.

I think that, unless your parents are no longer together, then your Dad will already know.
Infact even if they aren't and are on good terms, then he will probably have been told by your Mum.

Bite the bullet, get it over and done with, things like this should be shared with your parents and not hidden away.

like i also said, YOU'RE TO OVERSENSITIVE!!! i think that because you think that what you did is viewed as "sick" you take every litle mention as predjeduce. you said you didnt care, but you seem pretty sensitive about it to me!
Maybe I am, but that does not lessen YOUR insensitivity. Or excuse it.

Lyric, people like you are the precise reason that feminists are looked down upon and ridiculed as impossible-to-reason-with, left-wing extremists. You've done nothing in your posts here except slander and defame men as idiots, bigots and liars. FYI, if it weren't for a man of some sort, you would not exist (hey, that might not be such a bad thing!).

Since I am a classic example of America's "majority" (being white, male, Christian, straight and working class), I can't say that I speak from experience about being discriminated against (although hating Christians seems to be the hip new style of persecution, on these forums and in real life), but I think you're being extremely arrogant and misguided with your generalizations, trash talk, and overall attempts at intimidation on these forums. Hast thee no decency?

With your first few posts, you were making a lot of good arguments, and I applaud you on that. However, the further you went in, the more sweeping generalizations you made, and the more absurd you sounded. You've referred to men as people that just sit around and play poker games while having bad incidents of gas and downing about eleven beers per hour. If I said something along the lines of "Women are a bunch of emotional slutty ass bitches that only care about their jewelry and appearance and get jealous whenever their boyfriends make eye contact with any other chick", I would be ridiculed and shamed, and rightly so! But because you seem to be a gay-male-turned-female, you use your "I'm rejected by society, pity me!" card to shield yourself from any possible argument, much as Cindy Sheehan has been doing with her "I'm a grieving mother, I HAVE ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO DO!" card over the past three months. It's irony like that that ensures you will never be taken seriously by me or any sane, comprehensible human being.

Seriously, you're making a big deal over someone saying "Be the better man"? In case you're historically inept (like most lefties), "man" is just a short-term for "human". The term has been used ever since the age of the pharaohs, it's not prejudiced, and you're only embarrassing yourself and hurting your own arguments by saying otherwise. Just as I don't expect gays to get upset if I don't refer to them in long-term as "homosexual males" (and to you gays out there, way to be a good sport about it! I salute you), you shouldn't get upset over someone calling you a "(hu)man". Unless you'd like to argue that you are not, in fact, human? Which I wouldn't quite put out of your insanity range, given your well-documented past on this forum...

I guess the message I'm trying to put out there is, put shortly, u r t3|-| $u><><0r0rz! Lighten up, and QUIT WITH THE GENERALIZATIONS AND PREJUDICE! You're every bit as bad as the men you claim to hate. You're the perfect example of the ever-frequent human quality known as projection, and I think I speak for most of us when I say "Lighten up, or shut up."

By mine own hand,
Imperial President Garth A. Fedrece, Sr.

First...have I never mentioned what catty little bitchesd women could be? what backstabbing little bitches they can be? No? Sorry. Here's the official mention then, okay?

Second, do you read NOTHING I say? If you HAD then you would know that I am NOT a "gay male turned female" I am ASEXUAL!! Never have been gay. Never have been male (except anatomically speaking, and I consider that to be a birth defect.)

Third. Transgender people are VERY sensitive about pronouns, and you won't find many TG people like me who are not offended at being referred to in any pronoun that even SOUNDS masculine, or male. Thus, I don't appreciate being referred to as "a bigger MAN." How would you like it if I referred to you as a woman? You would not like it. same goes here. You want some respect, then you give respect.

Fourth. You will never know...and thank your lucky stars you won't...you will never know what discrimination and bigotry and hatred and prejudice feels like. Especially when people impose economic deprivation on you as a result of it. So you have no right to speak to me in the manner in which you have chosen to.

Until you've walked a mile in my shoes, buddy boy, you can shut up.

Hmm. I teach victims of domestic violence how to choose, carry, and use firearms for personal protection. It works. The stalking and abuse stops.

If you're worried about your personal safety, live in an area that allows you to get a concealed weapons permit. Like Virginia.

Matthew Shepard would still be alive today if he had been carrying a gun.
http://www.pinkpistols.org/

Just for accuracy, the attack was unexpected and done with a pistol. Had Matthew Shepard had a gun he would likely have been unable to use it. The only thing that could have saved Matthew Shepard is tolerance or not having met those boys.

First...have I never mentioned what catty little bitchesd women could be? what backstabbing little bitches they can be? No? Sorry. Here's the official mention then, okay?

Second, do you read NOTHING I say? If you HAD then you would know that I am NOT a "gay male turned female" I am ASEXUAL!! Never have been gay. Never have been male (except anatomically speaking, and I consider that to be a birth defect.)

Third. Transgender people are VERY sensitive about pronouns, and you won't find many TG people like me who are not offended at being referred to in any pronoun that even SOUNDS masculine, or male. Thus, I don't appreciate being referred to as "a bigger MAN." How would you like it if I referred to you as a woman? You would not like it. same goes here. You want some respect, then you give respect.

Fourth. You will never know...and thank your lucky stars you won't...you will never know what discrimination and bigotry and hatred and prejudice feels like. Especially when people impose economic deprivation on you as a result of it. So you have no right to speak to me in the manner in which you have chosen to.

Until you've walked a mile in my shoes, buddy boy, you can shut up.


Much like the person you replied, I also intially sympathized with you but if someone is born with a certain gender and then change it, they shouldn't be surprised if they are criticized. You made a choice and choices are open to criticism whether its warrented or not. And being born male is not a birth defect, giving around 48% of the population is born that way.

Much like the person you replied, I also intially sympathized with you but if someone is born with a certain gender and then change it, they shouldn't be surprised if they are criticized. You made a choice and choices are open to criticism whether its warrented or not. And being born male is not a birth defect, giving around 48% of the population is born that way.
So a transexual woman getting paid less because she is a woman can't complain because she "chose" to be a woman?

Of course being male isn't a birth defect. But being born female but with a male body is.

First...have I never mentioned what catty little bitchesd women could be? what backstabbing little bitches they can be? No? Sorry. Here's the official mention then, okay?

Second, do you read NOTHING I say? If you HAD then you would know that I am NOT a "gay male turned female" I am ASEXUAL!! Never have been gay. Never have been male (except anatomically speaking, and I consider that to be a birth defect.)

Third. Transgender people are VERY sensitive about pronouns, and you won't find many TG people like me who are not offended at being referred to in any pronoun that even SOUNDS masculine, or male. Thus, I don't appreciate being referred to as "a bigger MAN." How would you like it if I referred to you as a woman? You would not like it. same goes here. You want some respect, then you give respect.

Fourth. You will never know...and thank your lucky stars you won't...you will never know what discrimination and bigotry and hatred and prejudice feels like. Especially when people impose economic deprivation on you as a result of it. So you have no right to speak to me in the manner in which you have chosen to.

Until you've walked a mile in my shoes, buddy boy, you can shut up.

1. Perhaps you have stated what whores women can be. I haven't read the entire thread (some 40 pages!), but I was comparing you to the idiots that do so, and you're only reinforcing MY arguments.

2. Whatever. Being male isn't a birth defect. Being a natural hermaphrodite or having two vaginae, THAT'S a birth defect. By simply pointing out my few errors and dismissing everything else that I've said, you're making yourself look, for lack of a better word, stupid.

3. I'm actually a male feminist. I believe that women are indeed persecuted in ways, and numerous studies reinforce that. It needs to change. But you're being completely out of line when you think that we need to butcher the English language in the name of "tolerance". If you called me a woman, I really could care less, because:

A. I would know you're wrong.
B. You would know you're wrong.
and C. Whatever we were discussing would be more important than a misused pronoun.

Go ahead, make a big deal out of the use of the English language. Over 1500 years of the language's evolution isn't going to be seriously altered by a transsexual radical's internet-based sound and fury, so I could care less.

4. Wow, a two-fer. Not only do you seek to tell me what lies in my future, but you also seek to tell me what rights I have! Listen, I can speak to you in any way, shape or form I please. But I'm getting off-topic. You wanna tell me what rights I have? Sure, go ahead. But don't expect any respect to be gained that way (not that anyone here respects the form of your viewpoints anyway, but to each his/her own).

According to your location, you live in America. Are you blind, madam? White people and Christians (or worst of all, Christian whites) are blasted, ridiculed, and spit on by minorities and atheists in our great country every single day. Don't say it isn't true, because it is. Just turn on NBC and look at one of the six billion episodes of Law and Order where some poor minority child gets disemboweled by a white Christian man reciting the Second Amendment.

We're not that different, Lyric. We just have different ways of expressing our pain. You troll and flame up a bunch of lousy internet forums, forcing everyone to view your weakness and hatred; I just blog about my days, so only those who volunteer to see it are given the opportunity.

Economic deprivation? I believe you mean "financial deprivation", but whatever.

My point is, as I said before: Lighten up, or shut up. Quit spreading your flames, quit getting upset over minute problems with the English language, and stop generalizing men. Or, as many have already done, you'll just be /ignored. LIVE LIFE. You didn't become a transsexual by law; it was your own choice. You knew already that you may end up facing social discrimination, but you went ahead anyway because it was the right thing to do, and I applaud you for that much. Therefore, live with your choice, be proud of yourself for standing up for your rights and what you thought was necessary to live with yourself. But stop with the hatred, stop with the oversensitivity, or at the very least don't vocalize it in ALL CAPS EVERY OTHER POST. You're only approaching USENET's level of lack of ettiquette.

Sincerely,
IP Fedrece

White people and Christians (or worst of all, Christian whites) are blasted, ridiculed, and spit on by minorities and atheists in our great country every single day.
Oh, the poor white Christians who are in charge of most businesses, run most of the westernised countries, etc. etc. etc...

Oh, the poor white Christians who are in charge of most businesses, run most of the westernised countries, etc. etc. etc...

Wrong again, magnificent defender...I'm talking about the poor white Christians, such as myself, that walk around at school and in their own neighborhood, are shunned as "Jesus freaks", aren't allowed to wear crosses or even John 3:16 on their shirts because it's "hate speech", and being called a cracker by all the Latino and black population.

Kanye West can get away with absurd racist comments on national television (even get nationally applauded for it!), but if I carry a Bible with me into a restaurant on my way home from church, I'm instantly a bigot making racist comments and disrupting the restaurant's peaceful atmosphere.

That sound fair at all to you?

Wrong again, magnificent defender...I'm talking about the poor white Christians, such as myself, that walk around at school and in their own neighborhood, are shunned as "Jesus freaks", aren't allowed to wear crosses or even John 3:16 on their shirts because it's "hate speech", and being called a cracker by all the Latino and black population.

That kind of Christian.
Where I live that type of Christian doesn't exist.



(I'm assuming you mean "that type of Christian" to be someone who gets attacked for their beliefs, not someone who believes)

Where I live that type of Christian doesn't exist.



(I'm assuming you mean "that type of Christian" to be someone who gets attacked for their beliefs, not someone who believes)

Thank your lucky stars, then. Ireland (Northern or otherwise) is a beautiful place, I've heard...you should be lucky you live there.

And yes, I mean those that get attacked for upholding their beliefs.

<SNIP>
Third. Transgender people are VERY sensitive about pronouns, and you won't find many TG people like me who are not offended at being referred to in any pronoun that even SOUNDS masculine, or male. Thus, I don't appreciate being referred to as "a bigger MAN." How would you like it if I referred to you as a woman? You would not like it. same goes here. You want some respect, then you give respect.

Fourth. You will never know...and thank your lucky stars you won't...you will never know what discrimination and bigotry and hatred and prejudice feels like. Especially when people impose economic deprivation on you as a result of it. So you have no right to speak to me in the manner in which you have chosen to.
Until you've walked a mile in my shoes, buddy boy, you can shut up.

Lyric,
Not my experience.
I had a chance meeting with a transgeneder male, (now full female), which has lead to a long friendship and 'insider' knowledge.
What you are saying is not, in my experience of those who take the steps that she and others have taken.
She would not take a great offence to the term 'you are a better man than I', becuas eshe wants to be treated like a 'normal'(whatever that term means to anyone) person.

She and the others she has introduced me to do not go around shouting hello I once was 'Fred/Eric/Dave' and now I am 'Elain/Tracy/Betty', love me or hate me, but pitty me anyway. They just get on with it.

As do, for that matter the gay and lesbian people I know.

Your second point really really does annoy me.
Do you honestly think that you are the only person in the whole world who has suffered bigotry and depravation because of who or what they are?

How dare YOU assume that anyone who posts here has an easy life skipping through life without troubles?

specifics:
-my dad hates gays and lesbians, when ever he sees anything on TV about homosexuality he starts talking about how rediculous
-he got REALLY pissed off when i participated in the Day of Silence
-my mom has bipolar and im not sure if my coming out might give her a serious relapse even though shes pretty ok with gay people
-i live in a suburb of buffalo, one of the most conservative suburbs where people refer to homosexuality as a mental disorder!
-my two best friends:-a preachy athiest who is extremely liberal on all accounts.
-a conservative catholic

strange story- at a sleep over at my catholic friends house i woke up in the middle of the night to him touching me (if you catch my drift).

Wait... I also live in the Buffalo area, specifically in Orchard Park. E-mail me at Buffalodjembe@aol.com if you need someone to talk to. I have AIM too, at the same address, so feel free to drop a line. I'm the president of the GSA at my school, an out and about bisexual, and transgendered. My parents are pretty supportive, although they don't really know about my gender issues, but I have a lot of friends who are gay dudes, if you need more support and what have you. Some are out, some are not....

Basically, I would recommend figuring out where your parents stand, and how firm they are in their belief. A good way to go is the give the "Well, I have this friend" sort of story. Then, see what their reaction is. If it's bad, then I would recommend staying closeted to your parents. They don't have to know who you date or who you go to prom with. I know that can be uncomfortable, but it is for the best until you are able to support yourself.

If they react well, then by all means, tell them. You'll feel better about yourself.

Much like the person you replied, I also intially sympathized with you but if someone is born with a certain gender and then change it, they shouldn't be surprised if they are criticized. You made a choice and choices are open to criticism whether its warrented or not. And being born male is not a birth defect, giving around 48% of the population is born that way.

You really don't understand this concept do you?
In transgendered people their genes for whatever reasons, there are several theories about this, end up like twins in the same body.

They find themselves feeling and thinking like one sex, but have the body of the other.
In their case someone who is a 'male' in a female body or a 'female' in a male body, is a birth defect.
They have no more choice in this matter than the colour of their hair or how long their eyelashes grow.

As for them 'choosing' to have the operation and long a drawn out medical treatments that go with it?
Lets see.....
Have the operation and have some sort of inner contenment that you look and feel a damn site more like you should be.
Don't have the operation and spend the rest of your life in torment becuae you are living a lie to yourself.
I see little choice in the matter at all and just because they are 'open to criticsism doean't mean that people should.

Wrong again, magnificent defender...I'm talking about the poor white Christians, such as myself, that walk around at school and in their own neighborhood, are shunned as "Jesus freaks", aren't allowed to wear crosses or even John 3:16 on their shirts because it's "hate speech", and being called a cracker by all the Latino and black population.

Kanye West can get away with absurd racist comments on national television (even get nationally applauded for it!), but if I carry a Bible with me into a restaurant on my way home from church, I'm instantly a bigot making racist comments and disrupting the restaurant's peaceful atmosphere.

That sound fair at all to you?


Are you seriously going to play the poor, white Christian card? Really? Yes, white Christian occasionally are sometimes submitted to bigotry and hatred and it's always wrong when people hate or mistreat you based on gross generalizations rather than who you are, but comparing it to what TG's and other minorities experience is just silly. Fair would be for none of it to exist, but it does and white Christians are certainly treated more fairly than anyone else in the US.

I know, because I'm a white Christian male. Even better, you know I'm right and you've already agreed so why you'd suddenly try sound oppressed is beyond me.

Since I am a classic example of America's "majority" (being white, male, Christian, straight and working class), I can't say that I speak from experience about being discriminated against

Just saying whatever comes to mind for the sake of argument, are we?

Are you seriously going to play the poor, white Christian card? Really? Yes, white Christian occasionally are sometimes submitted to bigotry and hatred and it's always wrong when people hate or mistreat you based on gross generalizations rather than who you are, but comparing it to what TG's and other minorities experience is just silly. Fair would be for none of it to exist, but it does and white Christians are certainly treated more fairly than anyone else in the US.

I know, because I'm a white Christian male. Even better, you know I'm right and you've already agreed so why you'd suddenly try sound oppressed is beyond me.



Just saying whatever comes to mind for the sake of argument, are we?

I'll bring out whatever evidence I need to ensure that my view is taken seriously, if that's what you're asking. I know that the amount of criticism and shit we put up with could never compare to TGs, but I also know that these days everyone holds white Christian guys accountable for everything that goes wrong in the world (Hurricane Katrina, anyone?). Oh, 9/11? It's Bush's fault that he didn't shut down all flight traffic that day! Forget the fifteen Arabs that actually flew the planes, they're alright cuz they're not white guys!

Other than that, I'm done with this topic. The entire convo has gotten way off topic, so au revoir!

I'll bring out whatever evidence I need to ensure that my view is taken seriously, if that's what you're asking. I know that the amount of criticism and shit we put up with could never compare to TGs, but I also know that these days everyone holds white Christian guys accountable for everything that goes wrong in the world (Hurricane Katrina, anyone?). Oh, 9/11? It's Bush's fault that he didn't shut down all flight traffic that day! Forget the fifteen Arabs that actually flew the planes, they're alright cuz they're not white guys!

Other than that, I'm done with this topic. The entire convo has gotten way off topic, so au revoir!

If I'm ever about to post about the giant anti-Christian conspiracy in the US in some thread I'd like to believe that I'd choose to make the post BEFORE that one my last post of the thread. To say there is an anti-Christian conspiracy in the US is like saying there is anti-wine conspiracy in France.

Now if you'd like to be taken seriously you should probably talk about real events and not the conspiracy against Christians.

I'll bring out whatever evidence I need to ensure that my view is taken seriously, if that's what you're asking. I know that the amount of criticism and shit we put up with could never compare to TGs, but I also know that these days everyone holds white Christian guys accountable for everything that goes wrong in the world (Hurricane Katrina, anyone?). Oh, 9/11? It's Bush's fault that he didn't shut down all flight traffic that day! Forget the fifteen Arabs that actually flew the planes, they're alright cuz they're not white guys!

Other than that, I'm done with this topic. The entire convo has gotten way off topic, so au revoir!

Your not a grand Dragon are you ?

Your not a grand Dragon are you ?

Don't be silly. It's obvious that the attacks on Bush are because he's a white Christian male. It has nothing to do with being the President. The attacks on Clinton. Same thing. Reagan, Bush Sr. It's just coincidence they are all Presidents. And when they were attacking Condaleeza Rice they were attacking her for being on vacation regarding Katrina because she's a white Christian male. Yep, had nothing to do with being a part of the administration. That would be too obvious.

Yeah? Let's see how YOU feel if you are a part of a small minotrity group that it seems perfectly okay to make fun of! Let's see how YOU feel if you belong to a group of people who, since 1994, have averaged one hate-crime murder per month! Largely because we have been dehumanized by all the ridicule.

Let's see how you feel if you belong to a group that has a one in 17 chance of getting married...and a 1 in 12 chance of being MURDERED!! We stand a better chance, post-op...of getting MURDERED rather than MARRIED! Just fucking think about that for a minute.

Babe, I'm gay - so sunshine, don't play the 'look at me the victim, everyone feel sorry for me' game; believe me, you'll get more people pissed off than actually any respect or help in your struggle for equality.

I'll bring out whatever evidence I need to ensure that my view is taken seriously, if that's what you're asking. I know that the amount of criticism and shit we put up with could never compare to TGs, but I also know that these days everyone holds white Christian guys accountable for everything that goes wrong in the world (Hurricane Katrina, anyone?). Oh, 9/11? It's Bush's fault that he didn't shut down all flight traffic that day! Forget the fifteen Arabs that actually flew the planes, they're alright cuz they're not white guys!

Other than that, I'm done with this topic. The entire convo has gotten way off topic, so au revoir!
Dont give us that shit ... anyone care to think of a prominant senator that blamed katrina on gays :rolleyes:

Much like the person you replied, I also intially sympathized with you but if someone is born with a certain gender and then change it, they shouldn't be surprised if they are criticized. You made a choice and choices are open to criticism whether its warrented or not. And being born male is not a birth defect, giving around 48% of the population is born that way.
Criticized is one thing. discriminated against and denied the ability to earn a livlihood is quite another.
And don't you go off telling me it was a choice. The only choice I made was live as a woman, or die as a man. I chose to live. The mental anguish actually did get that bad, and if you have never experienced it, you cannot know. and thank your lucky stars that you don't and never will.

Even if it WAS a choice...I can think of another CHOICE that gets full protection of the law against discrimination....religion!! Religion most definitely is a fucking choice! Yet, people are protected from discrimination based on that choice.

And, again, if you read carefully, I said...being born anatomically male WAS A BIRTH DEFECT TO ME!!! Not that it was a birth defect FOR SOMEONE ELSE!!!

I was absolutely disgusted and repelled by my anatomically-male body. For ME, it was a birth defect. I shoulda been born into the right body in the first place. Believe me, I would have preferred that.

Nonetheless, you still seem to wish to throw the onus for intolerance, hatred, bigotry, and discrimination back upon the VICTIM of it...rather than where it truly belongs...ON THE PERPETRATOR!!

So, unless you change your tune, I've nothing more to say to you. I have nothing but contempt for people who blame the victim for their victimization...rather than blaming the VICTIMIZERS!!

1. Perhaps you have stated what whores women can be. I haven't read the entire thread (some 40 pages!), but I was comparing you to the idiots that do so, and you're only reinforcing MY arguments.

2. Whatever. Being male isn't a birth defect. Being a natural hermaphrodite or having two vaginae, THAT'S a birth defect. By simply pointing out my few errors and dismissing everything else that I've said, you're making yourself look, for lack of a better word, stupid.

3. I'm actually a male feminist. I believe that women are indeed persecuted in ways, and numerous studies reinforce that. It needs to change. But you're being completely out of line when you think that we need to butcher the English language in the name of "tolerance". If you called me a woman, I really could care less, because:

A. I would know you're wrong.
B. You would know you're wrong.
and C. Whatever we were discussing would be more important than a misused pronoun.

Go ahead, make a big deal out of the use of the English language. Over 1500 years of the language's evolution isn't going to be seriously altered by a transsexual radical's internet-based sound and fury, so I could care less.

4. Wow, a two-fer. Not only do you seek to tell me what lies in my future, but you also seek to tell me what rights I have! Listen, I can speak to you in any way, shape or form I please. But I'm getting off-topic. You wanna tell me what rights I have? Sure, go ahead. But don't expect any respect to be gained that way (not that anyone here respects the form of your viewpoints anyway, but to each his/her own).

According to your location, you live in America. Are you blind, madam? White people and Christians (or worst of all, Christian whites) are blasted, ridiculed, and spit on by minorities and atheists in our great country every single day. Don't say it isn't true, because it is. Just turn on NBC and look at one of the six billion episodes of Law and Order where some poor minority child gets disemboweled by a white Christian man reciting the Second Amendment.

We're not that different, Lyric. We just have different ways of expressing our pain. You troll and flame up a bunch of lousy internet forums, forcing everyone to view your weakness and hatred; I just blog about my days, so only those who volunteer to see it are given the opportunity.

Economic deprivation? I believe you mean "financial deprivation", but whatever.

My point is, as I said before: Lighten up, or shut up. Quit spreading your flames, quit getting upset over minute problems with the English language, and stop generalizing men. Or, as many have already done, you'll just be /ignored. LIVE LIFE. You didn't become a transsexual by law; it was your own choice. You knew already that you may end up facing social discrimination, but you went ahead anyway because it was the right thing to do, and I applaud you for that much. Therefore, live with your choice, be proud of yourself for standing up for your rights and what you thought was necessary to live with yourself. But stop with the hatred, stop with the oversensitivity, or at the very least don't vocalize it in ALL CAPS EVERY OTHER POST. You're only approaching USENET's level of lack of ettiquette.

Sincerely,
IP Fedrece

No, you will respect me. You either quit the insults on me, or you will be ignored by me. You show respect for me or you shut up. Any further insult from you will result in you being added to my list of ignored people.
Good day to you.

Wrong again, magnificent defender...I'm talking about the poor white Christians, such as myself, that walk around at school and in their own neighborhood, are shunned as "Jesus freaks", aren't allowed to wear crosses or even John 3:16 on their shirts because it's "hate speech", and being called a cracker by all the Latino and black population.

Kanye West can get away with absurd racist comments on national television (even get nationally applauded for it!), but if I carry a Bible with me into a restaurant on my way home from church, I'm instantly a bigot making racist comments and disrupting the restaurant's peaceful atmosphere.

That sound fair at all to you?

Good. Maybe if we keep it up, then you will learn what it feels like to be shunned, to be discriminated against, and to be crapped on.

Then, maybe...just maybe..."Christians" will stop doing it to others.

An eye for an eye.

Lyric,
Not my experience.
I had a chance meeting with a transgeneder male, (now full female), which has lead to a long friendship and 'insider' knowledge.
What you are saying is not, in my experience of those who take the steps that she and others have taken.
She would not take a great offence to the term 'you are a better man than I', becuas eshe wants to be treated like a 'normal'(whatever that term means to anyone) person.

1. She and the others she has introduced me to do not go around shouting hello I once was 'Fred/Eric/Dave' and now I am 'Elain/Tracy/Betty', love me or hate me, but pitty me anyway. They just get on with it.

As do, for that matter the gay and lesbian people I know.

2. Your second point really really does annoy me.
Do you honestly think that you are the only person in the whole world who has suffered bigotry and depravation because of who or what they are?

3. How dare YOU assume that anyone who posts here has an easy life skipping through life without troubles?

1. And neither do I. This is the fucking Internet! My chances of ever meeting any of you people in my daily life is probably zero, so I don't quite well give a shit if you know this about me. I don't go around advertising it to people with whom I must live, and work, and deal with face-to-face on a daily basis.

2. No. But I AM part of what seems to be the last group against who it is not only legal to discriminate...but against whom discrimination is often ENCOURAGED AND APPLAUDED!

3. I don't. but I guarantee NO-ONE has half the troubles I do. EVERYONE'S life is easier than mine, I know this.

3. I don't. but I guarantee NO-ONE has half the troubles I do. EVERYONE'S life is easier than mine, I know this.
Bullshit you dont know this you THINK that ... you believe that

But that does not mean it is always true

You have had a horrible run of it but assuming your life is worse then anyone then wishing pitty is a horrible way to go about life

If I'm ever about to post about the giant anti-Christian conspiracy in the US in some thread I'd like to believe that I'd choose to make the post BEFORE that one my last post of the thread. To say there is an anti-Christian conspiracy in the US is like saying there is anti-wine conspiracy in France.

Now if you'd like to be taken seriously you should probably talk about real events and not the conspiracy against Christians.

Oh, they all think they are being discriminated against, because they do not get 100 percent of their way, 100 percent of the time!

Damn, I wish I knew who had it in their sig line, but someone said something about how much it knocks him out that the white, male Christian majority controls 99.9 percent of everything that happens in this country, and they get pissed that they can't have the other .1 percent, too!

THAT is the discrimination Christians get. They don't get 100 percent of their way, 100 percent of the time. Well, too fucking bad, deal with it, Christians...you are all, still far more likely to be the perpetrator of discrimination, rather than the victim of it, and you damn well know it.

And no, this is not addressed to Jocabia, but to whomever HIS post that I am quoting was directed at.

Babe, I'm gay - so sunshine, don't play the 'look at me the victim, everyone feel sorry for me' game; believe me, you'll get more people pissed off than actually any respect or help in your struggle for equality.
Better to be pissed off than pissed on. But if you get pissed IN, then you KNOW you've been f**ked!! So get pissed off.