NationStates Jolt Archive

Im 16 and really want to come out but am afraid that my parents might just think its a phase and totally ignore it or might disown me.

Im looking for advice maybe from gays who have come out.

What was your experience like? Were your friends and family supportive?

Don't come out. If you have reason to fear disownment and cannot support yourself, then wait until you can. They don't have to know.

I'm not gay, but i'm pretty sure that if you came out your parents would still love you irregardless.

sometimes I think though that it might be better to come out and face my fears

like no mader what happens after I come out it might be better than always having to hide

I'm not gay, but i'm pretty sure that if you came out your parents would still love you irregardless.

yeah but Im not sure theyd support or even say they believe me

Go to google, and type in "porn."

Why does everyone always come out to me?!

Just kidding, Fass should be able to help you there. As far as coming out to friends it just depends, if they are true friends they will accept it. Parents could be a tough case. I guess suck it up and be ready for any reaction.

Don't come out. If you have reason to fear disownment and cannot support yourself, then wait until you can. They don't have to know.

There you go...

How did your parents take it fass?

Im 16 and really want to come out but am afraid that my parents might just think its a phase and totally ignore it or might disown me.

Im looking for advice maybe from gays who have come out.

What was your experience like? Were your friends and family supportive?

How positive are you that they dont already know or suspect ?

Why does everyone always come out to me?!

Just kidding, Fass should be able to help you there. As far as coming out to friends it just depends, if they are true friends they will accept it. Parents could be a tough case. I guess suck it up and be ready for any reaction.
Well, if he has a reason to be worried, he probably shouldn’t expect
“Well that’s great honey! :D ”

sometimes I think though that it might be better to come out and face my fears

like no mader what happens after I come out it might be better than always having to hide

Yeah, like living on the street as one of the countless young gay people who've been kicked out, having to turn tricks to support themselves and not be able to afford to go to school?

There is something to be said about leaving the closet and being honest, but then there's a lot to be said about being plain old stupid. If you have reason to fear disownment, make sure to be prepared for it before you do anything. The life of a disowned kid on the streets is not easy.

I have to agree with Fass. I know several homosexuals with very supportive parents, and know that my mother would be fine with it if I were gay... But I also know several guys who have been kicked out and had to drop out of school to work, one who moved in with a boyfriend 15 years older then him who was abusive, and one who is currently homeless. If you think that your parents might not support your sexuality, you could be totally wrong; not giving them enough credit; pleasantly surprised at their reactions... The unfortunate thing is that you are in a very vunerable situation and have a lot to lose if they don't support you. You also have good reason to think that they might kick you out, sadly.
I wish you the best.

Im 16 and really want to come out but am afraid that my parents might just think its a phase and totally ignore it or might disown me.

Im looking for advice maybe from gays who have come out.

What was your experience like? Were your friends and family supportive?
I'm not gay, but I have some advice for you.

Regardless of your age, when you deny an essential part of yourself long enough, you begin to die inside. It's not necessary to "announce" that you're gay, but don't attempt to hide it either. If your family truly loves you, they'll eventually come to accept you for who and what you are, as opposed to what they would like you to be. It will be hard, no denying that, but in the long run ( if you truly are gay ), you'll be much happier with yourself than you would otherwise.

Just a few words of advice from an "outsider" who knows some people who've been through the same thing. Good luck, and let me know what you decide. :)

Im 16 and really want to come out but am afraid that my parents might just think its a phase and totally ignore it or might disown me.

Im looking for advice maybe from gays who have come out.

What was your experience like? Were your friends and family supportive?
Don't tell them just yet. Drop subtle hints here and there that they can't make sense of conciously, but make you feel somewhat relieved. Then, when you finally have to tell them, it won't be a total surprise to them.

If there's any risk that they'd disown you, just don't. Wait until you can support yourself.

How did your parents take it fass?

My father died before I came out, and my mother has had a more or less negative reaction. Our relationship is strained and all I can say is that I am glad I waited until I could support myself. I shudder to think where I would be now if I hadn't.

You might wanna seek out some counseling services before you do anything rash. 16 is rather young to "know" anything. I've known a couple people who believed they were homosexuals and it turned out after some time that they had other problems that were interfering with their perception of things. Identity is something all young people struggle with, so be sure that you understand yourself before you go to your parents.

Gay or not, you owe it to yourself to get help with preparing for, and coping with, the aftermath of such a major event.

Don't come out. If you have reason to fear disownment and cannot support yourself, then wait until you can. They don't have to know.
Actually, Fass has stated something here which might concern me as well. Only you can answer whether your parents would accept that you're gay sooner or later. If you have serious doubts about this, wait.

sometimes I think though that it might be better to come out and face my fears

like no mader what happens after I come out it might be better than always having to hideYou wouldn't have to hide forever. Graduate, get a job, then come out to the people who support you, once you can support yourself.

Being gay myself, and working with many other LGBT youth (I work with the Illinois Department of Public Health and United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, representing LGBT youth in the state of Illinois and serving on the Illinois Prevention Community Planning Group along with serving on the Board of Directors for a transitional housing assistance program).

You don't have to go and volunteer the information to your parents, but don't hide yourself. Be who you are. And, if they ask wether you are gay or not, do not lie to them.

Send me a message on AIM, MSN, Yahoo, or Google and we can talk if you want.

AIM: obsideus
MSN: hccpride@gmail.com
Yahoo: gaizme
Google Talk: hccpride@gmail.com

yeah but i want to have fun now. i want to be able to date who i want and go to prom instead of staying at home like a loser.

My father died before I came out, and my mother has had a more or less negative reaction. Our relationship is strained and all I can say is that I am glad I waited until I could support myself. I shudder to think where I would be now if I hadn't.

Sorry to hear that.

Im 16 and really want to come out but am afraid that my parents might just think its a phase and totally ignore it or might disown me.

Im looking for advice maybe from gays who have come out.

What was your experience like? Were your friends and family supportive?

I never actually told my parents outright. Other people took it upon themselve's to out me and it sorta came out in the aftermath. It wasn't *that* bad but my folks weren't religious types. While I wouldn't say it was a treasured family moment it wasn't as bad as expected. My mom was great about it but dear old dad got reallllly quiet, rolled his eyes and walked away. Things are ok now though.

Being only 16 I'd wait. IN only a couple years you can be independent of them and by then they won't think it's a teenage phase. If they don't want anything to do with you afterwards, it's their loss. Cases like that aren't too common though. Most parents seem to be understanding though not all.

I think some groups like PFLAG might have some resources that might offer some good advice in yout situation.

Anyhoo, good luck.

Hm.... I'd have to concur with Fass. If there's a doubt that is beyond the kind of scenario only someones mind can conjur up, then don't go ahead and tell your parents until you can support yourself. Best safe than sorry and all that. Though, it should be said, unfortunate though it is, but still true in most cases I've heard of, if you absolutely have to say, usually it's best to go through the mother first. Fathers reactions can be more extreme, and if it's a shock, hasty and rash. Like I say though, that's only my -and others who've related to me- experience. Not everyones.

I never knew my dad. And my mother took it very negatively. But despite the hardships I went through with my mother, I am glad I did not wait. It's been about 3 years since I came out to her and she's just starting to fully accept and understand it, although she still says that I'll have a beautiful wife and children someday. That, too, is starting to stop however.

In that first week that I came out, I did go to bed crying every night because I thought she hated me, that she wanted me out of the house or didn't want me to exist period. That simply wasn't the case.

Actually, Fass has stated something here which might concern me as well. Only you can answer whether your parents would accept that you're gay sooner or later. If you have serious doubts about this, wait.

I respectfully disagree. Most LGBT youth believe that their parents would totally and utterly disown them/hate them/literally kill them. However, more times than not they love them despite the fact that they didn't/don't understand their sexuality. I thought that for a fact my mother was going to totally have my uncle shoot me dead, but that didn't happen. She yelled, cried and screamed. Then got over it, and moved on.

DABDA

Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance

You might wanna seek out some counseling services before you do anything rash. 16 is rather young to "know" anything. I've known a couple people who believed they were homosexuals and it turned out after some time that they had other problems that were interfering with their perception of things. Identity is something all young people struggle with, so be sure that you understand yourself before you go to your parents.

Gay or not, you owe it to yourself to get help with preparing for, and coping with, the aftermath of such a major event.

Ive known i was gay since i was 12, at the very beginning of puberty so i dont think its a misconception.

yeah but i want to have fun now. i want to be able to date who i want and go to prom instead of staying at home like a loser.

Like any other person your age, but you're not like all the others. The thing you have to think about is if this instant gratification is worth it, and then make sure that you can handle the consequences of your decision to come out or not. Are you ready to drop out of school and get a job to support yourself if your parents stop doing so? Will that prom seem that important then?

I wish, I truly do, as a gay man, that you could come out and do all the things you want to do without having to fear repercussions, but that's not how the world works, and you need to be prepared for a really rapid reality check.

Ive known i was gay since i was 12, at the very beginning of puberty so i dont think its a misconception.

You should send me an Instant Message if you can :)

Like any other person your age, but you're not like all the others. The thing you have to think about is if this instant gratification is worth it, and then make sure that you can handle the consequences of your decision to come out or not. Are you ready to drop out of school and get a job to support yourself if your parents stop doing so? Will that prom seem that important then?

I wish, I truly do, as a gay man, that you could come out and do all the things you want to do without having to fear repercussions, but that's not how the world works, and you need to be prepared for a really rapid reality check.

Fass, I think your scaring the kid. You are taking things a bit over the edge, especially without knowing any specifics.

I respectfully disagree. Most LGBT youth believe that their parents would totally and utterly disown them/hate them/literally kill them. However, more times than not they love them despite the fact that they didn't/don't understand their sexuality. I thought that for a fact my mother was going to totally have my uncle shoot me dead, but that didn't happen. She yelled, cried and screamed. Then got over it, and moved on.

DABDA

Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance
Same as the stages of death, and loss of a loved one. :(

I can at least tell you what my reactions would be if one of my own children announced that they were gay: first I would ask them if they were truly gay and how did they know. Then I would probably get a bit depressed. After I got over that, I would make 100% sure that they knew my love for them was not dependent on their being anything other than my child.

Booting them out of the house would never cross my mind.

Heh, this thread reminds me when I told my mom about my nudist camp experiences. Her responce was...well, funny.

Like any other person your age, but you're not like all the others. The thing you have to think about is if this instant gratification is worth it, and then make sure that you can handle the consequences of your decision to come out or not. Are you ready to drop out of school and get a job to support yourself if your parents stop doing so? Will that prom seem that important then?

I wish, I truly do, as a gay man, that you could come out and do all the things you want to do without having to fear repercussions, but that's not how the world works, and you need to be prepared for a really rapid reality check.
I would call this a painfully realistic statement. And I suspect Fass is correct, unfortunately. :(

Same as the stages of death, and loss of a loved one. :(

I can at least tell you what my reactions would be if one of my own children announced that they were gay: first I would ask them if they were truly gay and how did they know. Then I would probably get a bit depressed. After I got over that, I would make 100% sure that they knew my love for them was not dependent on their being anything other than my child.

Booting them out of the house would never cross my mind.

If my future adopted child comes out to me, I'll kill him!!!!

(In reality, I'd teach him how to make old people squirm at the mall while they do their power walking!! I've got it down to an art now with my boyfriend.. heh)

Fass, I think your scaring the kid. You are taking things a bit over the edge, especially without knowing any specifics.

I know what he's told us and he clearly fears disownment. If that is a possibility, then one need be prepared for it. If one is not, then it is apparently a better and more pragmatic decision to wait for the time when one is.

If my future adopted child comes out to me, I'll kill him!!!!

(In reality, I'd teach him how to make old people squirm at the mall while they do their power walking!! I've got it down to an art now with my boyfriend.. heh)
LOL! You nut! :D

You know, not being gay would instantly fix this situation.

Just saying.

I would call this a painfully realistic statement. And I suspect Fass is correct, unfortunately. :(

@Fass: Almost every LGBT youth that I know that is closeted feared that they would be disowned. And, while I have worked with getting kids into housing and assistance to get finished with high school and such, the majority of those youths didn't get "disowned" or kicked out. A lot of them did have a rocky time with their parents, but in the end it usually worked out.

You know, not being gay would instantly fix this situation.

Just saying.

And how, pray tell, do you suggest he do that?

You know, not being gay would instantly fix this situation.

Just saying.
Or being a goldfish.

Fass, I think your scaring the kid. You are taking things a bit over the edge, especially without knowing any specifics.I think that it's very important that young gay kids know what they might be upo against. Even if only one in ten kids ends up getting kicked out, the consequences and reprucussions are such that it has to be thought of as a huge risk to come out to your parents. Not because of the odds, but because of what you stand to lose.

Fass, I think your scaring the kid. You are taking things a bit over the edge, especially without knowing any specifics.

specifics:
-my dad hates gays and lesbians, when ever he sees anything on TV about homosexuality he starts talking about how rediculous
-he got REALLY pissed off when i participated in the Day of Silence
-my mom has bipolar and im not sure if my coming out might give her a serious relapse even though shes pretty ok with gay people
-i live in a suburb of buffalo, one of the most conservative suburbs where people refer to homosexuality as a mental disorder!
-my two best friends:-a preachy athiest who is extremely liberal on all accounts.
-a conservative catholic

strange story- at a sleep over at my catholic friends house i woke up in the middle of the night to him touching me (if you catch my drift).

I know what he's told us and he clearly fears disownment. If that is a possibility, then one need be prepared for it. If one is not, then it is apparently a better and more pragmatic decision to wait for the time when one is.

If he would send me an instant message and such, I could help him out a lot better by getting him in touch with a group in his area that could better counsel him. Here, we can only do so much. In a face-to-face chat with someone that is trained as I am to do interventions and give sound and reasonable advice, he may get a better answer and be able to better explain his situation.

I would call this a painfully realistic statement. And I suspect Fass is correct, unfortunately. :(

Aye, I would agree with these two. There are quite a few who will be cool with it. However, there are entire groups out there who wish gay people harm.

Next time try thinking.

What, exactly, am I not thinking of?

@Fass: Almost every LGBT youth that I know that is closeted feared that they would be disowned. And, while I have worked with getting kids into housing and assistance to get finished with high school and such, the majority of those youths didn't get "disowned" or kicked out. A lot of them did have a rocky time with their parents, but in the end it usually worked out.

And if it doesn't, he's the one out there on the street. We can be all lovey dovey and talk about how it works out for most, but there are inevitably those for whom it does not, and it is the latter event one need prepare for. It would be irresponsible to not stress this.

You know, not being gay would instantly fix this situation.

Just saying.

I take it when someone of a racial minority complains about discrimination, you tell them "You know, being white would instantly fix this situation."

Just saying. ;)

And how, pray tell, do you suggest he do that?

Not screw around with guys?

Its like asking me how I would not be straight. It would be easy. I would screw with men(or try), while shunning women sexually.

I take it when someone of a racial minority complains about discrimination, you tell them "You know, being white would instantly fix this situation."

Just saying. ;)

Have you seen, or heard of, the movie Black boy?

If a racial minority could make himself not a minority, I would suggest it. Seeing as its nearly impossible to do so, I won't.

Verufvia, check your telegrams.

Or being a goldfish.

Yes. But how do you propose he be a gold fish?

Have you seen, or heard of, the movie Black boy?

If a racial minority could make himself not a minority, I would suggest it. Seeing as its nearly impossible to do so, I won't.

And it is in this case as well. This sort of "advice" is not what he asked for. I suggest you take your vile agenda elsewhere.

If he would send me an instant message and such, I could help him out a lot better by getting him in touch with a group in his area that could better counsel him. Here, we can only do so much. In a face-to-face chat with someone that is trained as I am to do interventions and give sound and reasonable advice, he may get a better answer and be able to better explain his situation.

sorry i dont have im :(

Im 16 and really want to come out but am afraid that my parents might just think its a phase and totally ignore it or might disown me.

Im looking for advice maybe from gays who have come out.

What was your experience like? Were your friends and family supportive?

Well, for what it is worth, my advice to you is this....for now, DON'T come out. Do your parents REALLY need to know? Finish your education and become self-supporting first, so that, if your parents DO disown you and throw you out like yesterday's newspaper (and a lot of parents of GLBT kids do just that) you will be able to just walk away, and you may then learn one of the bitterest lessons folk like you and me ever had to learn....blood is NOT always thicker than water.

I, myself, am a transsexual. I came out at age 24, after I'd already left home, and was living on my own. My dad, indeed, did disown me. My mom was such a peacenik, and my dad so domineering and controlling...and an alcoholic asshole on top of it...that I had to nearly cut off any relations with my mother, too.

Fortunately, my rotten, son-of-a-bitch of a father died six and a half years ago, and, since that time, my mom and I rebuilt our relationship, and we are now tighter than we have ever been in our lives, we have a wonderful relationship.

About six months ago, I began having severe financial problems due to the rotten economy and discrimination...and I ended up having to move back in with my mom. She not only offered it...but even paid for my moving truck...from Texas to Pennsylvania. Now, I have converted the upstairs of the house into my own studio apartment, and my mom lives downstairs, and the common areas are all downstairs.

We spend a lot of time together, and if we ever DO get mad at one another, well...hell, I go upstairs, and she stays downstairs, until we cool off. We never stay mad at each other for very long, anyway.

Of course, were my dad still alive, I never would have moved back home...when I moved out of my folks' house way back then, I told my dad I'd never darken his doorstep again. And I didn't...until the day he died in Intensive Care, I never saw, nor spoke to him, ever again.

I made it to the hospital, from Louisville, Kentucky...where I was living at the time...to his bedside, in Pennsylvania...ten minutes before he died.

My mom, of course, has since re-written the will, so that everything is once again split between my brother (asshole) and myself. I haven't spoken to my brother since my dad's funeral, and have no plans to...until my mom's funeral...and then, never again.

My brother being a born-again Southern Baptist "Christian" fundamentalist asshole, well, let's just say that he shoved me away, and will never change his mind about me, and so, I do not consider him to be a part of my family, or a part of my life.

When you DO come out...be prepared to find out who your TRUE friends...and your TRUE family is...because that is when you will find out. Those who stick by you...they are worth keeping. The rest of them, hell let them screw off. But make sure you are able to be self-sufficient, in case you need to be...before coming out to those whom you count on for financial support, a roof over your head...those sorts of things.

Meantime, you might try looking into a group like PFLAG...and talk to some of the other parents there, about how THEY have handled their children's coming out process...and some strategies that you might use. Also, if you are in a large enough city, there out to be some sort of Youth GLBT group, and you might look into contacting them for some emotional support during what I am sure is going to be a very trying time for you....ahving to hide such a fundamental part of your own self, as if it were something to be ashamed of, instead of holding your head up high and proud.

The bottom line - knowledge of your sexual orientation is on a "need to know" basis...and decide if who you are coming out to really needs to know. Since you are 16, I assume you're still in high school...so you might try talking with your guidance counselor at your school, and see if he/she can point you in the direction of a local OutYouth, or PFLAG program that you could touch base with, and perhaps get some emotional support from...and some strategies for the years that lie ahead for you.

I wish you the best of luck, and certainly you may feel free to telegram me, or write to me here in the Forum at any time, and I will be glad to be of what emotional support I can be...and offer what advice I can. But, ultimately, in the end...YOU are the one who is going to have to decide who to tell...and when to tell them...and I recommend telling only on a need to know basis...and making sure that you are self-sufficient before coming out to those upon whom you rely for any means of support.

Also, since you are likely college-bound in a couple of years..try going to college out of state. That would give you some breathing room between you and your parents, and give you an opportunity to be a little more out and open, once you are in college, and not in your parent's home state.

College is a great place to come out, because college campuses almost ALWAYS have a GLBT support group. And, you're more likely to be able to be a bit more open about who you are, when you are far from your parents, and they are not likely to hear about it.

And it is in this case as well. This sort of "advice" is not what he asked for. I suggest you take your vile agenda elsewhere.

Its not the same. Its quite easy to be gay, or straight.

To want to be one, or the other? No. But did I suggest wanting women, etc? No. I suggested not being gay.

And I have no agenda.

Yes. But how do you propose he be a gold fish?

Chellis, I think I used to like you. Not so much anymore :-\

I'm a lesbian, but i mineaswell put my two cents in.

I came out to my then friends when i was about 16ish and in grade 11. Most of them took it very well. Though over the years, I only talk to one of those people(i just grew apart with the other people). Also, I actually got outted in my math class. Someone I thought I could trust said it out loud in math class.

Fast forward to grade 12,I was about 17ish, and had this really amazing art teacher. I told two people during art class because we were talking about gay artists. I told them that i was a lesbian. We started talking about it, i was actually very comfortable and open with them. At the end of the class, the teacher pulled me aside and told me she overheard the conversation and that she was bisexual. I actually went to a conslour because I actually went through a major depression for a bout 2 years. I was sucidle etc.

I finally came out to my mom first. I actually broke down crying. So finally after several questions..she finally said "is it your sexualty?" She took it pretty good, she has a lesbian cousin (who i want to meet!) My dad is taking good, hes from a really small town, so hes couping with it.

I just came out to my sister a month ago.(i'm currently in my second year of university and vice pres of the glbt group) She was like "are you sure" i was like "yes, i only dig girls". She was like "cool". However, I'm with a transexual boy right now, he choses not to have the surgery.

Just take your time, don't rush things, find your true self.

<snip>
Excellent advice in this post. And its too bad about your family Lyric. Blood is blood no matter what you do and if they can't except it that too bad.

Chellis, I think I used to like you. Not so much anymore :-\

(I wish people would realize that I'm not making an argument against being gay, nor hating on gays(I have 0 problem with them), or hell, even really advocating what I said. I was just making... not a joke, but I don' t know how to word it.

I'm not seriously asking him to stop being gay.)

Its not the same. Its quite easy to be gay, or straight.

To want to be one, or the other? No. But did I suggest wanting women, etc? No. I suggested not being gay.

Which is the same thing as suggesting it. Being gay isn't about fucking or not fucking. Your "advice" is shit.

And I have no agenda.

So you're just being an unhelpful jerk, then?

I didn't come out to my parents and friends until I was 23. My relationship with my parents instantly improved. It's like everything became clear to them and they finally understood what the deal was with me. Suddenly my dad would hug me instead of shaking my hand when I came home for Christmas dinner or whatever. And my mom was horrified that I had been gay all through highschool and she wasn't there to support me emotionally because she was "too blind to see". She regrets not being there for me when she feels I probably needed her most.

You can also come out to a select few of your closest friends, the ones who you are pretty sure would understand and accept you. The parents don't need to know the messy details of your sex life. I don't want to know about my parents' sex lives, and they don't want to know about mine I'm sure. My parents loved my friends in highschool and were happy I had buddies sleep over. They did not need to know what was really going on. Soon enough you will graduate and then you can tell them, or not.

I agree that in an ideal world we could all just kick down the closet door but unfortunately we can't always live in that world. If you really have reason to believe your parents would disown you then you must play by those rules until you are old enough and self-sufficient enough to live with the possible consequences.

Whose to say he has? He knew at 12 years of age, same age I knew, and I never did anything of the sort until much much later.

I suppose if you cared to prove a point by pretending to be homosexual that's your prerogative. Either way it will be a moment of inner discovery for you one way or another.

Me thinks though you'd run for the hills first though lol.

(If I understand what you meant...)

I'm detached enough that I could fool around with a guy, and not feel anything. I wouldn't enjoy it, except maybe the strict parts(ejaculation, etc). I probably wouldn't freak out, though.

And I go really, really far to prove points. Even small ones.

Verufvia, check your telegrams - ya got two!

Which is the same thing as suggesting it. Being gay isn't about fucking or not fucking. Your "advice" is shit.



So you're just being an unhelpful jerk, then?

I disagree. Being gay, at least in my mind, is screwing around with the same sex. Maybe homosexual is a better way of putting it?

And Ad hominem's, my my. Thats not very mature.

ive really got to go to bed seeing as its 12:17 here. i hope you guys come back tomorrow.

to chellis: do you even know how many times ive gone to bed praying to god that i wake up straight?

I disagree. Being gay, at least in my mind, is screwing around with the same sex. Maybe homosexual is a better way of putting it?

No matter how you put it, it's shit.

And Ad hominem's, my my. Thats not very mature.

I don't care. You're being a fucking jerk to someone who really doesn't need it. Shame on you!

ive really got to go to bed seeing as its 12:17 here. i hope you guys come back tomorrow.

to chellis: do you even know how many times ive gone to bed praying to god that i wake up straight?

Ugh I did the exact smae thing and I am not at all religious. :( Hang in there.

ive really got to go to bed seeing as its 12:17 here. i hope you guys come back tomorrow.

to chellis: do you even know how many times ive gone to bed praying to god that i wake up straight?

To Verufvia: Don't take what I said literally. I do feel for you, and what I said was meant to be lighthearted, jokingly said. I do hope things work out for you, to your best happiness.

Chellis is confusing "being gay" with "commiting gay acts". By his usage a gay man who is kissing and hugging a woman is "being straight" while he is doing that. Once he figures out that there is a difference between being and acting, this argument will go away.

Well, you might have something if you actually enjoyed it over sex with a woman... the inner discovery I spoke of ;) . Then of course is if you find the male physique and such to be attractive while boobs and such hold no interest for you...

Most gay guys find participating in heterosexual sex to be extremely repulsive. I'm not sure if people actually understand that as well as the subtle difference between sexual orientation and sexual activity.

At current, I find nothing sexy or anything about men. I am Asexual in response to them. I have never felt anything because of a guy. If it were to happen, it would, but I would doubt it.

Chellis is confusing "being gay" with "commiting gay acts". By his usage a gay man who is kissing and hugging a woman is "being straight" while he is doing that. Once he figures out that there is a difference between being and acting, this argument will go away.

Hence why I said that homosexual was probably a better word for it.

You know, not being gay would instantly fix this situation.

Just saying.
WOW!!!.. you are soo smart.. I admire you..

Now if you could only say "you need to find god and understand why your choices are wrong." Id just.. LOVE YOU *rolls eyes*

You cant just stop being something thats a dead set charactoristic in the mind.

And he asked for advice on coming out, not "help me im gay and i hate it".

I find what you said to be spam and nothing more.

No matter how you put it, it's shit.



I don't care. You're being a fucking jerk to someone who really doesn't need it. Shame on you!

Now matter how I put what? Gayness? You think being gay is shit?

And being fine with ad hominem attacks, yet I should be ashamed? If you say so, Fass.

WOW!!!.. you are soo smart.. I admire you..

Now if you could only say "you need to find god and understand why your choices are wrong." Id just.. LOVE YOU *rolls eyes*

You cant just stop being something thats a dead set charactoristic in the mind.

And he asked for advice on coming out, not "help me im gay and i hate it".

I find what you said to be spam and nothing more.

I am smart. I'm glad more people are beginning to admire me.

I'm an atheist, im sorry I can't please you.

You can just stop being something. I could stop being evil. I could stop being greedy. I could stop being an atheist. I choose not to do these things, even though I strongly feel for them.

It didn't seem to me as if he was asking on advice on how to come out, or such. Just having his parents know, in general. I gave him advice on the subject.

I find what you said to be spam and nothing more. See how easy one may say this?

Now matter how I put what? Gayness? You think being gay is shit?

What is coming out of your mouth is shit. Or are you gonna start acting so pathetic and point out that it's "not really your mouth it is coming out of" now? You're not being a bit clever - you're being a jerk.

And being fine with ad hominem attacks, yet I should be ashamed? If you say so, Fass.

Yes, you should be ashamed; making fun of a kid and telling him to not be gay, when that is probably what he has been bombarded with all his life. Fucking shame on you!

I am smart. I'm glad more people are beginning to admire me.

I'm an atheist, im sorry I can't please you.

You can just stop being something. I could stop being evil. I could stop being greedy. I could stop being an atheist. I choose not to do these things, even though I strongly feel for them.



But could you, would you... stop being a fucking idiot..for example. ;)

Excellent advice in this post. And its too bad about your family Lyric. Blood is blood no matter what you do and if they can't except it that too bad.

Too true. But, my mom and I are closer than we have ever been, and she treats me as her daughter, and calls me her daughter, and you should have SEEN the way she stuck up for me once out in public, with some witch who got after me for using the ladies' restroom! Mind you, I am completely post-op, and so am fully entitled to use the ladies' restroom. Well, THIS woman grabbed my arm and tried to pull me out of the ladies restroom. I near hauled off and bitch-slapped her.
This woman then proceeded to go back into the public area where all this was occuring, and made a gigantic scene. So I walked over to her and offered to drop trou, to prove to her I was fully female. Well, the whole damned auditorium got so quiet you could hear a pin drop. My mom then told the woman..."If you ever touch my daughter like that again, you unmitigated bitch, I'll drop you on your ass so hard you won't know what hit you."

The only thing is...my mom says she feels somewhat cheated that she didn't get to have all those mother-daughter experiences with me that we would have had, if I'd grown up a girl. so I told her we would just have to make up for lost time. And we do that now, too. I also offered, in spite of the absolute hassle changing my name would have been again...I offered to allow her to re-name me once again, but she said it wasn't necessary.

I also have a cousin who has been extremely supporting of me, literally from jump street...she was the very first family I came out to...I knew I could trust her. And we are very close. The rest of my family, with the exception of my cousin and my mother...have collectively disowned me. So to hell with them. The funny thing is...both my mom, and my cousin...are born-again Christians...and they support me. THEY show what a TRUE Christian would be like.

All in all, I say I am now better off than I was before, because now I know who my true friends, and my true family really are. BUT...I also came out at a time during which I was self-sufficient. Such is, of course, no longer the case, thanks to a rotten economy and the fact that discrimination exists, no matter what laws are passed against it...and society's "undesireables" are always the first thrown on the economic shit heap in a recession...and always the last pulled off that same shit heap when times get good again.

So I am looking into starting my own home business, and going back to school. Currently, I draw unemployment, and my mom allows me to live at home for very little rent, plus I do a lot of the house/yard work so that she does not have to.

Since she had no family anywhere around in Pennsylvania...and I had none around in Texas (most of my family lives in Chicago and in Georgia) it was a good thing, all the way around. We now have each other for company, and we can do many of the things that we couldn't before...like going to get our hair done together, or clothes shopping...and I have a place to live, and she has someone to help her with the upkeep of the house and property, which was becoming a bit much for her to handle on her own, being as she is now nearly 60 years old and a widow...who had no help before to maintain a 2,500 square foot house on nearly an acre of land. Plus, my dog now has a nice yard to play in...something I couldn't give her before, because I could not afford it.

So, all in all things have eventually worked out pretty well for me. But it took a lot of time, and a lot of work, and a lot of effort, after my dad died...to rebuild that relationship with my mom. I wanted it bad enough, and worked at it...and we now have a good relationship. so it can be done. Bt, as I said before, I do not recommend coming out to those upon whom you rely for support...until you are able to provide for your own support, should that become necessary.

I've seen too many of those kids who got kicked out, ended up having to prostitute themselves while living on the streets, just to survive...and often meeting brutal deaths. And if not that...at least living a life with no hope, because they were not able to get themselves an education or legitimate job skills...and so prostitution became the only way they could survive.

Very few of those kids ever managed to get themselves off the streets and into a good, regular, self-sufficient, satisfying and wholesome life. I would hate to see a 16 year old risk everything. But I DO recommend trying to go to college out of state. That would give an opportunity to come out most of the year, and relieve a lot of that inner pressure, while minimizing the chances of your parents finding out about your sexuality before you are ready for them to.

ere an adult you trust with out doubt that you can tell first? Friend’s parents, Mentor, anyone that can be a support to you if you tell them and the worst happens.

If your parents are neutral no big deal they can believe it is a phase or that your making it up all they want. If they are supportive and your relationship deepens great wonderful.

But if the worst does happen it is going to be tougher then shit for you with out a support network in place. So before you tell them, I would be sure to build that network up.


Regards and best wishes,

JMayo

(I wish people would realize that I'm not making an argument against being gay, nor hating on gays(I have 0 problem with them), or hell, even really advocating what I said. I was just making... not a joke, but I don' t know how to word it.

I'm not seriously asking him to stop being gay.)

Well, if you don't have some useful advice for this kid...why don't you just go somewhere else? This might be a joke to you, but I can promise you it is NOT a joke to him. And your lack of empathy is absolutely breathtaking. You need to learn a little sensitivity.

Chellis,
Maybe I can offer some advice at this point:
When you find that you have dug yourself a hole that you are having trouble digging your way out of, the first thing to do is stop digging.

Hence why I said that homosexual was probably a better word for it.
No, substituting "homosexual" for "gay" would not change the misinterpretation. You said earlier "being gay, at least in my mind, is screwing around with the same sex". That is incorrect. Being gay is having sexual attraction for the same sex, regardless of whether you act on it or not, and regardless or whether you have sex with the same or the opposite gender. It is the built-in attraction that defines "being gay".

You can change your behaviour, but you cannot change the underlying attraction. So what you are really suggesting when you say "you could make the problem go away by just not being gay" is "you could make the problem go away by lying about who you are and denying yourself happiness so that other people don't have to upset their little view of the way things are". And you would still be gay, even while doing that.

I think it is entirely due to this misuse of terms that this whole argument has sprung up. See how easy it is to get people riled up just by simple misuse of the language?

What is coming out of your mouth is shit. Or are you gonna start acting so pathetic and point out that it's "not really your mouth it is coming out of" now? You're not being a bit clever - you're being a jerk.



Yes, you should be ashamed; making fun of a kid and telling him to not be gay, when that is probably what he has been bombarded with all his life. Fucking shame on you!

You are insulting me on an online forum, simply because I have said things you don't like. If you think I'm the jerk, well, thats what you think. I don't agree.

I did not make fun of a kid. I did not tell him not to be gay. Please quote where I said either of these? Again, its not very mature to insult, nor to put words in my mouth.

But could you, would you... stop being a fucking idiot..for example. ;)

I was unaware I was being one. Though I have to ask you to stop flaming me. Well, I don't have to. But I am.

Well, if you don't have some useful advice for this kid...why don't you just go somewhere else? This might be a joke to you, but I can promise you it is NOT a joke to him. And your lack of empathy is absolutely breathtaking. You need to learn a little sensitivity.

This isn't a joke for me. I was simply attempting to lighten the mood. I figured, when people realized what I meant, they would have a chuckle and move on.

Chellis,
Maybe I can offer some advice at this point:
When you find that you have dug yourself a hole that you are having trouble digging your way out of, the first thing to do is stop digging.

I'm not digging anywhere, figuratively or literally. I'm enjoying talking in a thread. I can quit anytime I want.

No, substituting "homosexual" for "gay" would not change the misinterpretation. You said earlier "being gay, at least in my mind, is screwing around with the same sex". That is incorrect. Being gay is having sexual attraction for the same sex, regardless of whether you act on it or not, and regardless or whether you have sex with the same or the opposite gender. It is the built-in attraction that defines "being gay".

You can change your behaviour, but you cannot change the underlying attraction. So what you are really suggesting when you say "you could make the problem go away by just not being gay" is "you could make the problem go away by lying about who you are and denying yourself happiness so that other people don't have to upset their little view of the way things are". And you would still be gay, even while doing that.

I think it is entirely due to this misuse of terms that this whole argument has sprung up. See how easy it is to get people riled up just by simple misuse of the language?

You quoted me, and still misinterpreted me.

I said "in my mind". Meaning that I'm not using some dictionary definition. Hence why I said you could switch it with homosexual, if you wanted, because I wasn't originally being dictionary-accurate.

I figured it was assumed that I wasn't asking him to stop liking men. I guess not.

Too true. But, my mom and I are closer than we have ever been, and she treats me as her daughter, and calls me her daughter, and you should have SEEN the way she stuck up for me once out in public, with some witch who got after me for using the ladies' restroom! Mind you, I am completely post-op, and so am fully entitled to use the ladies' restroom. Well, THIS woman grabbed my arm and tried to pull me out of the ladies restroom. I near hauled off and bitch-slapped her.
This woman then proceeded to go back into the public area where all this was occuring, and made a gigantic scene. So I walked over to her and offered to drop trou, to prove to her I was fully female. Well, the whole damned auditorium got so quiet you could hear a pin drop. My mom then told the woman..."If you ever touch my daughter like that again, you unmitigated bitch, I'll drop you on your ass so hard you won't know what hit you."

The only thing is...my mom says she feels somewhat cheated that she didn't get to have all those mother-daughter experiences with me that we would have had, if I'd grown up a girl. so I told her we would just have to make up for lost time. And we do that now, too. I also offered, in spite of the absolute hassle changing my name would have been again...I offered to allow her to re-name me once again, but she said it wasn't necessary.

I also have a cousin who has been extremely supporting of me, literally from jump street...she was the very first family I came out to...I knew I could trust her. And we are very close. The rest of my family, with the exception of my cousin and my mother...have collectively disowned me. So to hell with them. The funny thing is...both my mom, and my cousin...are born-again Christians...and they support me. THEY show what a TRUE Christian would be like.

All in all, I say I am now better off than I was before, because now I know who my true friends, and my true family really are. BUT...I also came out at a time during which I was self-sufficient. Such is, of course, no longer the case, thanks to a rotten economy and the fact that discrimination exists, no matter what laws are passed against it...and society's "undesireables" are always the first thrown on the economic shit heap in a recession...and always the last pulled off that same shit heap when times get good again.

So I am looking into starting my own home business, and going back to school. Currently, I draw unemployment, and my mom allows me to live at home for very little rent, plus I do a lot of the house/yard work so that she does not have to.

Since she had no family anywhere around in Pennsylvania...and I had none around in Texas (most of my family lives in Chicago and in Georgia) it was a good thing, all the way around. We now have each other for company, and we can do many of the things that we couldn't before...like going to get our hair done together, or clothes shopping...and I have a place to live, and she has someone to help her with the upkeep of the house and property, which was becoming a bit much for her to handle on her own, being as she is now nearly 60 years old and a widow...who had no help before to maintain a 2,500 square foot house on nearly an acre of land. Plus, my dog now has a nice yard to play in...something I couldn't give her before, because I could not afford it.

So, all in all things have eventually worked out pretty well for me. But it took a lot of time, and a lot of work, and a lot of effort, after my dad died...to rebuild that relationship with my mom. I wanted it bad enough, and worked at it...and we now have a good relationship. so it can be done. Bt, as I said before, I do not recommend coming out to those upon whom you rely for support...until you are able to provide for your own support, should that become necessary.

I've seen too many of those kids who got kicked out, ended up having to prostitute themselves while living on the streets, just to survive...and often meeting brutal deaths. And if not that...at least living a life with no hope, because they were not able to get themselves an education or legitimate job skills...and so prostitution became the only way they could survive.

Very few of those kids ever managed to get themselves off the streets and into a good, regular, self-sufficient, satisfying and wholesome life. I would hate to see a 16 year old risk everything. But I DO recommend trying to go to college out of state. That would give an opportunity to come out most of the year, and relieve a lot of that inner pressure, while minimizing the chances of your parents finding out about your sexuality before you are ready for them to.

Going to out of state colleges = more in tuition. You don't have to go out of state college.

ive really got to go to bed seeing as its 12:17 here. i hope you guys come back tomorrow.

to chellis: do you even know how many times ive gone to bed praying to god that i wake up straight?

Oh, man do I hear THAT one!! Can't tell you how many times I prayed to God to make me a girl when I woke up, when I was a little kid and didn't know that it just don't work that way.
And I can't tell you how many times I have wished I could have been born, either male or female...but had my gender identity match my physical anatomy...and that I never heard of...or felt, any of the shit that goes along with gender identity disorder. I wouldn't freaking wish GID on my worst enemy. You can't imagine how much it sucks to feel like an alien in your own body....and you can't imagine what it feels like to feel your body is betraying you, when you go into puberty, and begin developing secondary sex characteristics that you totally hate!
Hell, I near suicided at 14, because I began growing facial hair, and my voice began deepening, and I thought I would NEVER be able to reverse these things about myself that I considered gross!

I even wrote a poem about it...

There was a maiden, full of grace
Locked away in hardened place
Forced to wear a mask by day
Face within was locked away

Trapped within this clumsy beast
Her self will soon become deceased
Light of life, she'll never see
Imprisoned by society

Identity, failing to be found
Rapunzel chained and gagged and bound
Secret longing to reach her goal
Of showing all, her inner soul

But, alas, her fate is sealed
Within this form of man, concealed.

This isn't a joke for me. I was simply attempting to lighten the mood. I figured, when people realized what I meant, they would have a chuckle and move on.

Well, how about you go "light up someone else's life?" This is NOT a subject to be taken lightly. This is very serious to the original poster, and I still think you are very insensitive to make light of it.

You can't know how much I'd like to rip into you and shout and yell and scream profanity at you, but I suspect that is what you really want.

And I'm not going to give it to you. I just think you are showing an incredible lack of sensitivity for another human being, and I find that very sad.

I'm not digging anywhere, figuratively or literally. I'm enjoying talking in a thread. I can quit anytime I want.

So how about NOW...since you are posting nothing of use to the original poster? And since everyone here has already rebuked you for being insensitive? Do you lack the ability to discern where you aren't wanted? Do you lack the class to LEAVE a place where you are not wanted?

If I decided to flame you there'd be no doubt about it and unless a moderator decides to have a word with me I am afraid you're SOL, and even then.... I and a few others here found your comment to be very unacceptable and unhelpful. I know exactly what this fellow is going through and it in no joking matter. I can understand you may not be aware of that but listen well and from there let's hope you show the same respect you seem to demand.

Calling somebody a "Fucking Idiot" isn't a flame? I am surprised.

And I don't demand any respect.

Going to out of state colleges = more in tuition. You don't have to go out of state college.

I know that. I suggested it as it would put more distance between him and his parents, thus maybe make it more possible for him to be truer to hiimself.

Of course, if one lives in a large state, it's possible to stay in state, and still be a long way from home...like, if you live in say, California...or Texas...or Pennsylvania....you can easily stay in-state and go to school five to six hours drive from home.

Well, how about you go "light up someone else's life?" This is NOT a subject to be taken lightly. This is very serious to the original poster, and I still think you are very insensitive to make light of it.

You can't know how much I'd like to rip into you and shout and yell and scream profanity at you, but I suspect that is what you really want.

And I'm not going to give it to you. I just think you are showing an incredible lack of sensitivity for another human being, and I find that very sad.

And I think you need to get a life, and not take things so seriously. My posting isn't hindering him from getting useful advice. A few people just seemed to have a fit with my advice.

So how about NOW...since you are posting nothing of use to the original poster? And since everyone here has already rebuked you for being insensitive? Do you lack the ability to discern where you aren't wanted? Do you lack the class to LEAVE a place where you are not wanted?

How useful was this post, to the original poster? Is it not you, by constantly replying to me, who is posting things unrelated to the thread creator?

And I think you need to get a life, and not take things so seriously. My posting isn't hindering him from getting useful advice. A few people just seemed to have a fit with my advice.

Exactly what USEFUL advice have you offered?

As far as I can tell you haven't offered any. I'm done replying to you, because I think you just want the attention, and I'm not going to give it to you anymore. I think I have made my disgust with you crystal-clear, and it needs no further mention.

Exactly what USEFUL advice have you offered?

As far as I can tell you haven't offered any. I'm done replying to you, because I think you just want the attention, and I'm not going to give it to you anymore. I think I have made my disgust with you crystal-clear, and it needs no further mention.

Who defines useful? You?

Good for you.

Ok, so what we all are doing is bitching at the bullshiter. Lets all agree that Chellis is an ass, now for the sake of the thread and the reason it was started, lets shut up about this off topic spam.

Verufvia are you feeling ignored and marginalized yet? Don't worry, this thread really is still about you.

Calling somebody a "Fucking Idiot" isn't a flame? I am surprised.

And I don't demand any respect.


I think you missed the 'for example' part specifically used to insulate me from a direct attack. You seem to forget you asked me to stop flaming you which would seem to be a demand. Given the subject matter/title of the thread one could ask why you posted in it at all. Sure seemed like a troll to me.

So who'll push the mod button first...?

Verufvia are you feeling ignored and marginalized yet? Don't worry, this thread really is still about you.

He went to bed.

He went to bed.
With a hottie I hope.

I think you missed the 'for example' part specifically used to insulate me from a direct attack. You seem to forget you asked me to stop flaming you which would seem to be a demand. Given the subject matter/title of the thread one could ask why you posted in it at all. Sure seemed like a troll to me.

So who'll push the mod button first...?

Your flame was quite obvious, whether or not you want to trivialise it or not. My claimed trolling, however, takes a broad leap of imagination. My advice may not have been viable, but it was advice pertaining to the thread. And last time I checked, going off-topic wasn't against the rules.

I don't feel the need to call a mod, because I am a big boy, and I can handle being called names by people through the internet. However, I figure if a mod were to read this, they might call you on your flaming.

With a hottie I hope.

As do I :)

Indeed it was to both of us but the only one who seems to not take issue with your comments is yourself. Interesting isn't it.

Ever heard of a vocal minority?

Its regardless, however. Last time I checked, it wasnt against the rules to say things people didn't like.

Y'all need to just quit feeding the troll.

Once we all ignore the troll, it will go away on it's own. Trolls always feel the need to get the last word in. So let him. Let's just move on and offer the original poster the advice he asked for, and let the troll alone.

Oh you mean flaming? Your comment went a bit beyond being unpopular. As I said earlier, I got an awfully good idea what this kid is going through and had this converation occurred in face to face setting, I'm not so sure you should worry about being verbally assaulted.

I don't see how I flamed. Enlighten me.

I'd say coming out if you aren't absolutely sure that they'd take it well is a bad idea. My parents always claimed that theywere fine with gays, but when i told them I was, they kicked me out. i spent the better part of a year sleeping at the places of 'friends' who wanted something physical in return. Most of them were a lot older thaan me, I got bashed up by a few of them because i refused to sleep with them. i had to leave school, most of my straight friends stopped talking to me. I'm staying with a girl I know right now, the only reason my parents will talk to me is they thik I'm sleeping with her. That said, i spend most of my free time in the next town clubbing and getting laid, which is a lot better than being celibate.

you are only 16 for christ's sake. You dont have to come out to your parents until you feel you are ready. What is the RUSH? You just went through puberty. :rolleyes:

Alright, more or less I am ina similar situation to yourself. I am 18, and starting my first year of university. I have not told my parents, but would like to, but well... petrified to do so.

i know the feeling that you want to do it as soon as possible, the feeling that when you talk to them it feels like it is going to be the next thing to burst out of your mouth.

My mother suspects that I am gay (or so I think, because one time I remembered she said "it would be nice to have a gay son" when my dad was saying something stupid). I mean they have to atleast suspect because I have lots of gay friends. Back to the point.

I want to tell them, but I cannot because I need to rely on them financially for university, I need to rely on them for emotional support, I would be devistated if they rejected me. So for that fear of rejection I cannot tell them, at least not yet, I am going to wait untill it finally gets to the point where I am forced to tell them (by my own conscience) or if I am lucky enough If they ask me, I will not lie.

For me there is an extra variable, I have 4 older brothers, 2 of them I would suspect would be alright with it, 1 might, and one probably will not be (he is an idiot... but I still love em).

I guess this really didnt help, just letting you know that I'm here for ya.

P.S.

If you think they are going to reject them, you've known them for 16 years, you just might be right.

Sorry for jumping into this thread this late :rolleyes:

Coming out is rarely easy and doesn't always yield the results that one wants. In my case it came through phases - who I told when... eh... let's just go through the biography [sorry for the ppl that don't want it]

Figured out I was gay at something like 11-13. Went through a rough state of mind at 16, immediately after the chrisis I came out to some of my irl friends on irc (school mates and such... most members of a debate club -I simply needed some sort of support, I needed someone I could talk to without talking in riddles).

Through the next 2 years I was starting to get ok with being me & coming out to my friends... and that's when I told my brother (who I more or less expected to be cool with it)... told him in a park; in german (which he also speaks, but I knew him well enough that I knew he wouldn't understand that last word) so when we came home I shoved a german->slovenian dictionary into his hands and went away for a while. When he came to me he just asked "so?".

My parents... now that was a hard one. When that happened (last year, when I was 21) I had enough money in my bank account to be able to live off for 2 years, which would give me enough time to finish uni... and I co-owned the house that my family lives in.
When it was time to tell them I simply broke down, so I asked my bro to tell my dad, which he did (and to be honest, that situation was hillarious... and if I wasn't too busy being out of my mind and crying a lot I'd be laughing till I'd drop). Basically my dad's reaction was similar to my brothers... the only thing he said more was that from all how nervous I was he thought I at least killed someone.
My mom... blah... my dad told her when she came home, so the next day when we met she asked me if I needed to see a psychiatrist :headbang: . I said no, and that was the last thing discussed we said on the whole gay topic.

As for the rest of my family (extended families are the main trend here :p )

My grandparents might not take it so well so I'm not really even thinking about telling them. My grandmothers: 1 is conservative socialist-communist (she still has a crush on Tito), the 2 is a control freak with plenty of money and influence in the family, and my living granddad explicitly said one day he hoped that gays would be lined up in front of the firing squads - but only after they were commited to mental institutions where they would be treated with electroshocks and raped all the time. So... let's not say too much there :D

Aunts and uncles, they're not really important... all they could cause was trouble (1 aunt is very conservative and quite communist (must be a mother - daughter thing involving Tito) the other is a bit weird, and I have no idea what to expect from her) and that would be a killer to all the birthday parties, so we're not doing that anytime soon.

My cousins... female cousins one older and one younger might learn about it one day, I'm not really planning on telling them, but they might find out eventually, and I think it'll be ok with them.


Ergo... this was my story, the gay-ish part of my life :rolleyes: (although it was anything but happy to be honest). But this is slovenia, ppl don't get in your face unless you bother them. There's plenty of gay jokes going around, I hear them all the time, some are good, some are bad... you just gotta learn how to laugh to them. Religion is not a big issue in slovenia (actually it is, but not when it comes to private life), so far I haven't heard from any religious zealots telling me how perverted my life is :rolleyes: . Actually all in all the acceptance of gay ppl is quite widespread, and those who dont like it are politely quiet and discuss this topic only with their like-minded friends. So far we don't have any reports of gay bashings (well in the last 15 years that is... of course we don't list ppl who are literally asking for it in this category - going to the some skinhead-nazi wannabe bar with your boyfriend acting rather obviously might not exactly the best thing you've ever done in your life health-wise). And you can overhear gay slurs... as rare as they are (personally I've never been called any names) ;) . Our "activists" are a bit too audiable sometimes imho, but they get the job done with only minimal negative feedback.

Ok, now I'm really done with both my biography and explanation of the current situation here... let's get down to advice.

1) You choose when you're gonna tell them and when and if you tell them let it be on your terms [btw... shocking someone in a moving vehicle, while he's driving is not a healthy thing to do]

2) Make sure you have an emergency plan, somewhere you can stay in case your coming out goes badly - also include contigency plans for finishing school,... make sure you can afford the thing to go badly [the best generals rarely sent to battle more than they could afford to lose].

3) If you do it, try not to make it too agressive. If at first it starts looking bad, yelling back and telling them everything that you think and ever thought of them might not be the best idea. Try to keep it calm, or if not calm, at least not agressive.

4) A battle ending up undecided is better than a battle in which you're on the losing side, so know when it's time to quit and retreat... a.k.a. live to fight another day.

This is just a couple tips, but what you have to know; there is no definite way to coming out. Every single person is different, so every single person reacts differently. Sometimes exactly the opposite of what you expected happens (I expected my dad to have problems with it, not my mom).

I won't tell you not to rush it, because I know I waited for too long, it ate me up from the inside... But make sure you know what to do if either of the things happen, if it's good... kewl... but if it goes badly I think the possible results are: being thrown out of the house, being forced to leave the house though abusive behaviour, sending people to reeducation camps (religious camps you know), certain hospitals,... Your laws allow parents too much freedom when it comes to taking care of their children.

PS: try to figure out what your parents think of gay ppl... sometimes simply asking them is the best solution (literally "what do you think of gay ppl?") in others it's already a prelude to coming out :rolleyes: .

Post Post Scriptum: Try to handle them one at a time... you know people are smart as individuals, but collectively they act very stupid (at least that's my explanation for Bush ... sorry... couldn't resist myself :p )

PPPS: good luck kiddo, whenever you choose to come out

coming out as gay is nothing, trying bieng a tran.

:)

It seems like being gay is as normal as being black. I cant believe people actually have problem with this, i must have a really liberal family.

As much as you may think it's wierd, counseling really would be exceptionally helpful. Your school should have someone you couls work with; otherwise, there are plenty of free groups, especially if you live in a city. Or contact a local gay rights group or PFLAG and see what they can offer. Not only do you have someone to talk to, but it's also someone who can help you if things go poorly. They will ensure that you're not on the street if you let them, but you have to trust them and work with them, not against them. Tell a friend first, and have them go to a session with you if it helps. If you don't do something, it will kill you or you'll end up coming out in a way that is counter-productive and end up making the situation worse. A counselor also can help you come out to your family in a safe, structured environment and ensure they don't kick you out. I got lucky; my dad's a psychologist and kept my mom from killing me after I came out - figuratively, mind you. She still has her own little world where I'm straight, but it all works out.

coming out as gay is nothing, trying bieng a tran.

:)

It seems like being gay is as normal as being black. I cant believe people actually have problem with this, i must have a really liberal family.

Oh, holy shit, I hear you on that one, being trans myself! I remember, early on, my mom used to ask me, why couldn't I just be gay? I had to keep patiently explaining to her that my gender identity was completely seperate from my sexual orientation, and that my feeling as a woman trapped in a man's body had absolutely nothing to do with my sexuality, because, in fact, I was attracted to neither sex. I am one of those rare Asexual people you hear about from time to time...I quite literally have no sex drive whatsoever.

I am 34 years old now, post-op, and, in my entire life I have had a total of three sexual encounters (not counting all the times my asswipe brother molested me as a teenager) two of those encounters were with girls, and one was with a man....and in each case, the other party got me way drunk, first. So they were hardly consensual encounters.

My mom began to suspect me at 24, after I'd already left home. I had begun to grow my fingernails, and she noticed this. She point-blank asked me if I was gay. I truthfully told her I wasn't. Then I took her to see Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. I knew she would handle it way better than my dad or my brother, and I turned out correct.

Anyway, after the movie, we got talking about it a bit, and my mom again asked me if I were gay, because my nails, by this time, were long enough that you coulda took the old scissors right to 'em...forget the clippers! And I again, truthfully told her I wasn't. And so she asked me what the deal was with my nails. I told her then that I was like Bernadette in the movie.

She told me I was still her child and she loved me, but then asked me why I couldn't "just be gay" as that would be a lot easier for her to deal with! She went from that to later coming as close as possible to rejecting me, without totally rejecting me (this due to my father's expected hugely negative reaction...and his domineering ways - no one in my house was ever allowed to hold a different opinion from my father...he would abuse and belittle you mercilessly for having even the slightest difference of opinion from him.)

I ended up maintaining a relationship (barely) with my mother over the next 3 years. This only because I moved out of state, and refused to give either of my parents my new telephone number, or the name of the people with whom I was staying, because my father had taken to calling me up and leaving sick messages on my answering machine.

I got a pager, and gave my mother the pager number, and told her that I would call HER back anytime, but that she was NOT EVER to give the number to my father. So we ended up having a lot of conversations, some of them strained, all at times when my dad wsn't around...usually when she was at work...or home alone, because my dad was out.

3 years later, I got the page from an adjacent area code to my mom's usual area code, and I got a weird feeling about it, and returned the call. Turned out it was from my mom, and she was calling from a hospital where my dad was in Intesive Care, and not expected to live. She advised me to come home, and I did. Got to my dad's bedside ten minutes before he died.

Over the next year and a half, I had to keep calling my mother regularly, and talk her down from suicide...she didn't want to go on without my dad, she didn't think she could make it on her own (Dad did not leave my mom well off...no life insurance, no piad-for house, no nothing.) Then, my mom and I began developing a closer relationship. what I didn't know at the time was...my friend, with whom I was living...had also established a relationship with my mom, and was working to try and help the two of us to repair our damaged relationship.

Things were going good as could be over the next year and a half...and then my mom told me she had become a born-again Christian. And I thought, "fuck...there goes two years work, right down the drin...she's gonna turn into one of the fundamentalist asswipes like my brother, and it's all over." Even though my cousin, who was born-again...supported me from jump street, I still felt that way about my mom's new born-again status. To say the least, I was not thrilled.

It didn't turn out as I had feared, because, she ended up becoming more accepting as a result of her born-again status, and her eventual emergence from her long depression and grief over my dad's death. We ended up with a very solid relationship...but it was one I had worked to build back for a long time. I wanted it bad enough to make it happen.

Finally, my mom wrote me back into the will from which my dad had all but disinherited me. He even wrote it specifically that I was to get only one dollar, and that I was not allowed to contest it. I'm not sure if that could have been made to stick, legally, but that's beside the point.

Of course, my dad had threatened to do exactly that all my life, because I was bad kid, and my brother was good kid. Basically, because my brother kissed my dad's ass, and I refused to. I fianlly told him I was sick of his goddamned threats, and his attempts to hold a club over my head to keep me under his thumb, and told him, "go ahead, take me out of the will...then you got nothing left to hold over my head anymore."

Now, my mom wrote me back into the will...and I suspect that has a good deal to do with my brother's absolute seething hatred of me. Not just his so-called Baptist faith...but the fact that he thought he was gonna get everything, and now he won't.

Anyways, my mom and I now share the house I once left. I now live upstairs, and she lives downstairs. I converted the upstairs into a studio apartment for myself. We get into our small little arguments, here and there...as will any people who live together...but we don't stay mad at each other for long.

So, again...it was a hell of a long process leading to eventual acceptance by my mom. But my dad never did accept, and my brother never will. In the end, I think my dad at least forgave me for it. i'll never really know for sure, because by the time I got to his bedside, he could only squeeze hands to communicate. I was no longer able to hold onto my anger and outright hate I had for my father, seeing him in the condition he was in. so I forgave him all he had done to hurt me...and asked him if he would forgive me everything I had done to hurt him. He sqeezed my hand once for yes. To this day, I never really will know for sure, after all, maybe he thought his hand was around my neck...but, nevertheless, we did make a final peace on his deathbed.

So, what is the point to all of this? My point is...even an initial negative reaction CAN be turned, given time, patience, and work...if you really value the relationship. But no sense jeopardizing your means of support by telling people upon whom you depend for anything. Better to be independent first....then you tell people on a need-to-know basis.

But I agree, I think it is a hell of a lot harder to come out as trans! At first, they keep screwing up and calling you by your old name, and using the wrong gender pronouns, and that can add a lot of strain to a relationship (it certainly did in the case of my mom and myself!!) And then, the parent of a TG friend of mine set me straight by asking me how long it had taken me to come to terms with who and what I was. Then she asked me how long I had given my mom. She'd made her point, and I backed off from insistence that my mom only use my new name, and that she always get the gender pronouns right. Well, giving my mom that time and space...turned out to be the very thing that eventually turned my mom to acceptance. Sometimes, much as it hurts, you have to give some - even something you don't want to give....in order to keep a relationship you value. In time, it worked out the way I wanted it to.

As much as you may think it's wierd, counseling really would be exceptionally helpful. Your school should have someone you couls work with; otherwise, there are plenty of free groups, especially if you live in a city. Or contact a local gay rights group or PFLAG and see what they can offer. Not only do you have someone to talk to, but it's also someone who can help you if things go poorly. They will ensure that you're not on the street if you let them, but you have to trust them and work with them, not against them. Tell a friend first, and have them go to a session with you if it helps. If you don't do something, it will kill you or you'll end up coming out in a way that is counter-productive and end up making the situation worse. A counselor also can help you come out to your family in a safe, structured environment and ensure they don't kick you out. I got lucky; my dad's a psychologist and kept my mom from killing me after I came out - figuratively, mind you. She still has her own little world where I'm straight, but it all works out.

Ah, so your mom is still swimming in the River "D. Nile," eh? Well, that is a stage towards eventual acceptance, so it could be worse.

Verufvia are you feeling ignored and marginalized yet? Don't worry, this thread really is still about you.

thanks :)

thanks for all your advice
id like to think i could bring this subject up again with you guys (except for maybe chellis)
its nice to have people to talk to
this is actually the first time ive ever talked to anyone about this stuff
my plan is to go to college at Berkley. Calif. and spend maybe a yr or two as an exchange student in Taiwan

thanks for all your advice
id like to think i could bring this subject up again with you guys (except for maybe chellis)
its nice to have people to talk to
this is actually the first time ive ever talked to anyone about this stuff
my plan is to go to college at Berkley. Calif. and spend maybe a yr or two as an exchange student in Taiwan

Feel free to contact me anytime you need to talk...or just need someone to listen...someone to care.

thanks for all your advice
id like to think i could bring this subject up again with you guys (except for maybe chellis)
its nice to have people to talk to
this is actually the first time ive ever talked to anyone about this stuff
my plan is to go to college at Berkley. Calif. and spend maybe a yr or two as an exchange student in Taiwan

My point in asking if you think anyone already suspects or knows is , that by having someone in your family or close to the family that you can confide in and trust you have an ally that can maybe ease the idea accross instead of you just having to make an announcement and giving out embolisms . :)

Like diplomacy if you catch my drift..a little feeling out before you drop the bomb on them . Thats what my brother did and he still thought our dad would track him down and shoot him. He was wrong ..and I confess I was worried about something similar myself ..I thought he might hang him before he shot him . But my dad although not very happy has accepted things the way they are..and my brother is now staying at his house while he searches for work and a place to live ( he was in Nicuragua running a small business and his partner left him ) . I think my mom always kinda of knew he was a bit different . My other brother and I knew he was a bit odd but since we are not playing with full decks ourselves we just figured he was the " quiet " type :D When he told me I was a bit shocked since by then the women seemed to flock to him and he had gotten married and divorced... :eek:
Same as when he was growing up . Go figure ! He likes guys no doubt about it and no one can say he didnt sample the other side before he came to that conclusion . And yes I still find it hard to wrap my head around that concept...but WTF he's my brother what are you gonna do ?

Don't come out. If you have reason to fear disownment and cannot support yourself, then wait until you can. They don't have to know.

I agree. I have a good friend who is doing this currently. His parents suspect and have told him if he is gay then "They will have one less son."

BUT there are some serious hard things about doing it this way
- My friend leads a total double life and gets sick of keeping it up (he's about a year away from being financially independent enough to tell them.) He's become an alcoholic (which may or may not be related to the closet stress)...

In anycase - make sure you have good friends who know your situation and/or some kind of professional counselor who does - because while it may be smart to stay closeted to your parents - it's not always easy.

Good luck to you my friend. :)

I agree. I have a good friend who is doing this currently. His parents suspect and have told him if he is gay then "They will have one less son."

BUT there are some serious hard things about doing it this way
- My friend leads a total double life and gets sick of keeping it up (he's about a year away from being financially independent enough to tell them.) He's become an alcoholic (which may or may not be related to the closet stress)...

In anycase - make sure you have good friends who know your situation and/or some kind of professional counselor who does - because while it may be smart to stay closeted to your parents - it's not always easy.

Good luck to you my friend. :)

do you guys think if i told a counselor they might tell my parents, out of "concern"?

do you guys think if i told a counselor they might tell my parents, out of "concern"?

Nope, it would breach patient confidentiality in a most henious manner. How old are you actually?

Nope, it would breach patient confidentiality in a most henious manner. How old are you actually?

i told you earlier- 16

Be carefull of the advice you give , the councelor may not be obligated to a doctor / therapist - patient relationship..because the councelor is not required to be . And if you leave it up to them ........... ;) I would ask the councelor if he /she would guarantee confidence before I even started to think about it . And even then I would have to have confidence enough to believe them .

unfortunately yes, they might. it all depends on the counselor. i have a therapist who has shown time and time again that whenever i tell him something major, my parents have to know as well, and he doesnt even consult me before contacting them. :(

unfortunately yes, they might. it all depends on the counselor. i have a therapist who has shown time and time again that whenever i tell him something major, my parents have to know as well, and he doesnt even consult me before contacting them. :(

that must suck.

after talking to you guys, especially Fass. I decided that im going to wait to tell my parents, at least, until i know for sure that theyd support me.

that must suck.

after talking to you guys, especially Fass. I decided that im going to wait to tell my parents, at least, until i know for sure that theyd support me.
you can say that again! im also in your kinda situation, but i have another problem, namely, religious parents and i go to a private religous institution. personally im an aetheist, and have a hard time swallowing most of the stuff in front of me. im not sure my parents would disown me, but ive been following fasses philosophy, being only 15. i figure ill wait till after college. i also have the problem of being the only boy in my family, and so i have a feeling of guilt because of the whole family name thing.

you can say that again! im also in your kinda situation, but i have another problem, namely, religious parents and i go to a private religous institution. personally im an aetheist, and have a hard time swallowing most of the stuff in front of me. im not sure my parents would disown me, but ive been following fasses philosophy, being only 15. i figure ill wait till after college. i also have the problem of being the only boy in my family, and so i have a feeling of guilt because of the whole family name thing.

i have a younger brother, so i guess not all the pressure will be put on me. but being the oldest, its like i have to set an example.

i wish you the best of luck Verufvia. :)
i find it hard to imagine having any problems with telling my family, but then i've got a sister who's bi and has loads of homosexual friends. my family's totally fine about homosexuals.
i've been bi since i first learnt the meaning of the word- it's always seemed silly to me to base your attractions on the person's gender. it would be like judging someone's attractiveness solely by their appearances- discounting either gender simply because they are that gender seems ridiculous to me.
personality is what matters.
under the circumstances, i'd think it best to stay quiet about it, but don't let that stop you doing anything you want- as soon as your silence impedes your relationships i would suggest you tell, but until then it's unimportant.
unless your parents specifically ask you what gender you are attracted to, i don't see neglecting to tell them as lying in any way- it's simply not important enough to tell them.
things which shouldn't matter are unimportant, and as i've probably stated a ridiculous amount of time, being homosexual or heterosexual are petty differences which needn't be pointed out or complained at or argued about.
personally i think it's a bit fussy to be homosexual or heterosexual- refusing attraction by default because of gender.
but that could just be my bisexuality encouraging me to convert people to bisexuality. :)

i have 3 sister and an older half brother. the interesting thing is that two of my siblings have already left the fold. one of them has gone completely ballistic, and my parents just put on a facade of happiness when shes around. my half brother hasn't been a practicing jew for almost 15 years, so everybodys already accepted him, but he straight. im just worried that my revelation would be to much, and my dad would have a heart attack or compeltely disown me. :(

its nice to have people to talk to that have similar experiences and emotions to mine.

wow, how can i have missed this thread for so long?!

anyhow..i'm glad fass' been making his stance clear this insistingly, and you have listened to him.

i guess all i can add now is a little re-inforcenment. i've been volunteering in helping glbt kids through rough patches for over 3 years now, and this experience really only leaves you with the perspective fass already laid out.

i personally count myself lucky as both my parents don't feel all too blessed having a gay daughter, with my mum being sure that someday i'll "turn around and marry a nice guy and have kids" and my father refusing to talk about the subject, but they never took any action against me.

but i have had countless kids turn to me in situations where their parents kicked them out, disowned them, physically abused them, gave them guilt complexes, forced them to get into therapy, etc etc

so i go with fass' advice and tell you to not come out to your parents while still being financially dependend on them if you have reasonable doubt that they leave you unharmed, in every way.

feel free to TG me whenever you feel like.

wish you good luck in everything you do, and keep us posted.

Im 16 and really want to come out but am afraid that my parents might just think its a phase and totally ignore it or might disown me.

Im looking for advice maybe from gays who have come out.

What was your experience like? Were your friends and family supportive?
If you are worried about your parents' reaction, then you should wait until you don't live with them any more to tell them. You should try to leave home ASAP, whether it be going to university or getting a job and your own place. Once you aren't dependent on them, tell them the truth...if they don't want to accept it, at least they won't be able to materially hurt you.

If they end up rejecting you because of your sexuality then the best thing you can do is come to accept that they had no right to be parents in the first place. Any parent who would do that is a parent you're better off without.

i dont want to sound whiney
but

its not fair at all that straight kids get to have all the fun.
i mean, im 16 and havent gone on a single date, whereas most kids in my grade think of it as second nature.
although i guess when i compare my life with others who have come out and been kicked out my life is pretty good.
its still not fair though. :mad:
im the only person i know of that didnt go to prom.
and it sucks always having to hide behind a mask, pretending that im someone that im not.
it pisses me off so much when people use words like gay and fag to insult people. or when my english teacher uses a "gay" voice (very stereotypical) when hes trying to make something sound stupid.

why should i be deprived of a normal high school life just because im gay.

why should i be deprived of a normal high school life just because im gay.
You shouldn't, but unfortunately that's the way life is :(

i'll let you ahve your whiney phase...
but just for a couple seconds.

you're not shunned from normal highschool life.
first of all, dating and all is nice and a hot issue in highschool, but i'm sure you realise that it's by far means not everybody who does it, nor is it only the (closeted) gay kids who don't get to do this until or even in college.

secondly, you can go to prom and all. as you're not outed in school, it's not like anybody would go "but hey you're gay you can't take a girl". you really don't have to have a crush on the prson you're going to prom with, you know. i went to prom with a guy as well and i certainly did have fun. don't isolate yourself more than you need to, if you don't want to.

thirdly, the insults are not going to stop. you being "out" will not suddenly make words such as 'fags' or 'that's so gay' go away. in fcat, most gays find it will increase around them once coming out...

and, fourthly, i can only make fass' point again. yes, it sucks pretending. a lot. but it sucks a lot more being kicked out of the house and disowned. and even if you aren't...just having come out in your teenage years doesn't always have to be heaven, either. sometimes pretending to be someone else doesn't seem *that* bad when currently facing losing friends and (verbal) attacks waiting behind every corner you turn.

i'm not saying it always have to be a catastrophy. but everyone needs to be aware that it can.

i dont want to sound whiney
but

its not fair at all that straight kids get to have all the fun.
i mean, im 16 and havent gone on a single date, whereas most kids in my grade think of it as second nature.
although i guess when i compare my life with others who have come out and been kicked out my life is pretty good.
its still not fair though. :mad:
im the only person i know of that didnt go to prom.
and it sucks always having to hide behind a mask, pretending that im someone that im not.
it pisses me off so much when people use words like gay and fag to insult people. or when my english teacher uses a "gay" voice (very stereotypical) when hes trying to make something sound stupid.

I didn't go on a proper "date" until I was 18. Sure, I did stuff before then, but never in that kind of framework. Don't worry, it'll happen.

And the mask thing: you've accepted yourself, so there's no chance that you're going to get married, have kids etc. before realising it's not who you are. You're young, and your mask is gonna disappear when you're ready :)

And about the "gay" insult thing - pah, I use it all the time too. It's called reclaiming insults :P

It could be worse you could be the kid in high school whos so painfully camp he dosen't even need to come out the closet.

yeah
sorry again about the whole whining moment.

when do you think i should come out.
would waiting too long create a lot of distance between me and my parents that might be hard or impossible to gain back?

yeah
sorry again about the whole whining moment.

when do you think i should come out.
would waiting too long create a lot of distance between me and my parents that might be hard or impossible to gain back?
Come out when you're ready to come out. This really isn't something anyone else can decide for you - you've got to have the self-confidence and courage to do so, as well as being reasonably certain that the first person you tell is going to be supportive. I'd suggest dropping hints to your closest friend, to gauge their reactions. But seriously, don't do it before you're sure you're ready.

as it has been pointed out to excess before, you're on the safe side waiting with your coming-out until you're (financially) independent.

may i hazard a guess..coming out might create a biiger gap than not doing so..

surely some parents feel disappointed their kids hadn't confided in them earlier, but it's not like yours are exactly inviting you to say it, eh?

yeah
sorry again about the whole whining moment.

when do you think i should come out.
would waiting too long create a lot of distance between me and my parents that might be hard or impossible to gain back?

I'm 17 years old, and gay, and I have come out to my parents. I was lucky, in that I knew my parents were okay with me being gay even before I said anything. They're extremely open to those sorts of things, and I guess I was blessed by having to loving parents, but if you're in a situation where you don't know whether or not your parents will accept you, but still want to come out to them, do these two things:
1. Find a good friend you know will accept you and can support you. It's usually preferable to come out to a lot of friends that help you. Once again I was lucky in that all my friends don't care that I'm gay and are all for it.
2. Try and find out from your parents what they think of gay people and go from there. If you still want to go out with them, be prepared to get kicked out, have a bag filled with some essentials and try and find a place to stay incase you do get kicked out.
I know it's sad to think your own parents would disown you over being gay, but you just never know, and it's always best to be prepared. If you wanna ask me any more questions, just TG me. I was in the same boat as you man, and it can be tough, but you'll get through it.

Ugh I did the exact smae thing and I am not at all religious. :( Hang in there.

If it is just as easy so wake up one moring and decide to be gay then why cant you just decide to be straight...is there something im missing? Who made the decision that you would be gay?? You or other people??? Who says you just dont want attention?

i dont want to sound whiney
but

its not fair at all that straight kids get to have all the fun.
i mean, im 16 and havent gone on a single date, whereas most kids in my grade think of it as second nature.
although i guess when i compare my life with others who have come out and been kicked out my life is pretty good.
its still not fair though. :mad:
im the only person i know of that didnt go to prom.
and it sucks always having to hide behind a mask, pretending that im someone that im not.
it pisses me off so much when people use words like gay and fag to insult people. or when my english teacher uses a "gay" voice (very stereotypical) when hes trying to make something sound stupid.

I can feel for you. Though I'm not gay, I havn't gone out on a single date either, and I didn't go to junior prom. All I can suggest, is to try and be happy. Instead of focusing on things like that, focus on things you like to do, etc. I'm usually quite depressed, but since school started this year, I've been really looking positively at things, and been quite happy(well, drugs help, but even when I'm not on them).

you say your not religious then why do you pray?? if you arent religious what is the problem with being gay?

If it is just as easy so wake up one moring and decide to be gay then why cant you just decide to be straight...is there something im missing? Who made the decision that you would be gay?? You or other people??? Who says you just dont want attention?

I admit, what I said got out of hand, but I do not agree with people like this. People cannot just decide to be straight. Its like asking you to be gay. Could you do it? Actively decide to like being with men?

If it is just as easy so wake up one moring and decide to be gay then why cant you just decide to be straight...is there something im missing?
Yup.

well im glad i have one person on the whole thread on my side...thanks but back to what i said..... my best friend just came out of the closet to the whole school this week......we go to a christian school .....thats going over like a lead ballon.so it may be sounding like i dont like people who are gay thats not true i dont like what they do

You know, I still think homosexuality is a choice, and a morally incorrect one at that (to express sexual love for an individual of the same sex, as opposed to love by deep admiration or brotherhood). Nonetheless, I have a friend who made that same choice, and I very decisively chose not to shun him for it. I try always to show him the same respect I always have, though I do not agree with what he has done. Your parents may be the same way, in which case they will probably try to encourage you to reconsider what you are doing, but love you nonetheless.

Then again, they may react in a more ignorant fashion and disown you or try to beat the practice out of you. You know the beliefs of your parents better than I, but if you have any doubts I would advise you to keep it to yourself for the time being and perhaps even consider if it is really the best thing to do.

You know, I still think homosexuality is a choice
Regardless of whether you think it is morally right or wrong, do you imagine that you could enjoy sleeping with a member of the same sex?

I remember my sister coming out - totally a non-event, we were all cool with it, but if people know you, they'll know on some level. Your parents might just be blocking it, and if they can't deal with it then just leave it for now, but you have to have at least one friend you can tell, or something. I'm pretty sure one of my friends is gay, so I just keep making myself available if he needs to chat or something, so that when he's ready to, he knows that I'll listen, and I'll be fine with it... but if you can't find anybody local, then take up a few of these fine people on their advice, and chat to them, heck I'd listen if it weren't for the timezone thing meaning I should be asleep now for school...

Anyways, I really hope that, whatever you decide to do, things go great. And could you talk to a doctor? I don't know whether you have patient-doctor confidentiality over there... but if so, he DEFINITELY can't tell your parents. Maybe you could also try looking for local groups in your area. Just so you can get it off your chest. I hope that all the people who totally support you on this thread has given you a bit of a boost.

Chin up!

You know, I still think homosexuality is a choice

You know, I still think heterosexuality is a choice, and that heterosexuals are just confused homosexuals who fool themselves due to an overactive urge to breed.

Regardless of whether you think it is morally right or wrong, do you imagine that you could enjoy sleeping with a member of the same sex?

Have you ever slept in a barracks ...fartin' snorin' smellin ' and hair in places it just aint meant ta be ! :D And you want to actually have SEX with one of those ? :D I always thought that's why women want to get paid ! ;)

Have you ever slept in a barracks ...fartin' snorin' smellin ' and hair in places it just aint meant ta be ! :D And you want to actually have SEX with one of those ? :D I always thought that's why women want to get paid ! ;)
Yes, but for some people "a member of the same sex" isn't male :p

You know, I still think homosexuality is a choice, and a morally incorrect one at that (to express sexual love for an individual of the same sex, as opposed to love by deep admiration or brotherhood). Nonetheless, I have a friend who made that same choice, and I very decisively chose not to shun him for it. I try always to show him the same respect I always have, though I do not agree with what he has done. Your parents may be the same way, in which case they will probably try to encourage you to reconsider what you are doing, but love you nonetheless.

Then again, they may react in a more ignorant fashion and disown you or try to beat the practice out of you. You know the beliefs of your parents better than I, but if you have any doubts I would advise you to keep it to yourself for the time being and perhaps even consider if it is really the best thing to do.

homosexuality is definitely not a choice. people dont choose to be shunned and considered immoral.

Yes, but for some people "a member of the same sex" isn't male :p

IMO the lucky ones . :D absolutely nothing wrong with girls gone wild with girls..in fact not only do I endorse it , I encourage it ! :D

I wonder why discussions like these always end up stooping to this kind of level. How about just concentrating on the issue that was brought up in the first post? ;)

homosexuality is definitely not a choice. people dont choose to be shunned and considered immoral.

People who beleive it's a choice do so to justify themselve's. Those who sanctimoniously cling to the falsehood while arrogantly getting up on a high horse for not being as repugnant as others or as they could be are annoying wastes of skin.

homosexuality is definitely not a choice. people dont choose to be shunned and considered immoral.

To true but even so they will still be shunned. Stigmas don't go away in the blink of an eye.

To true but even so they will still be shunned. Stigmas don't go away in the blink of an eye.

yeah. but the more gays and lesbians that come out the more the stigma cannot hold its place in society. once people begin to realize that gays and lesbians are people too, that they are doctors, teachers, politicians, and scientists, the easier it will be for gays to live without the fear of discrimination.

Verufvia I have one more tidbit of advice. I don't know if school counsellors are the same where you live as they seem to be just about everywhere else, but in my experience they will either hound you to tell your parents and not leave off until you do, or they will tell them themselves. They are trained to deal with general issues and career choices, but they are not specialists in gay issues.

I would recommend getting in touch with a youth counsellor outside the school, there are always confidential services available to GLBT youths and these people are specifically qualified to deal with precisely the issues you are dealing with. They are the specialists.

yeah. but the more gays and lesbians that come out the more the stigma cannot hold its place in society. once people begin to realize that gays and lesbians are people too, that they are doctors, teachers, politicians, and scientists, the easier it will be for gays to live without the fear of discrimination.

Its not that easy. You need to change the ideas of people and that can be a very hard thing to do. Look at how long it took to deal with civil rights movement. That still isn't over with today. There is still discrimination based on race and sex. It will take a while to change the attitudes of people.

you can say that again! im also in your kinda situation, but i have another problem, namely, religious parents and i go to a private religous institution. personally im an aetheist, and have a hard time swallowing most of the stuff in front of me. im not sure my parents would disown me, but ive been following fasses philosophy, being only 15. i figure ill wait till after college. i also have the problem of being the only boy in my family, and so i have a feeling of guilt because of the whole family name thing.

What a crock. The whole male ego thing about "carrying on the family name." Sheesh, I had an older brother who'd already had a male child, and my dad still reacted violently to the news I was trans. Never understood men, anyway. I never felt like one, and I have never understood them, either. Even though I play-acted at being one for 25 years, I have no clue what motivates that whole male ego thing.

It could be worse you could be the kid in high school whos so painfully camp he dosen't even need to come out the closet.

Or you could have been me. The guys all thought I was just shy and introverted...all the girls suspected me, but never actually directly voiced it, always just made subtle hints to me...like saying they had a skirt I could borrow!

I mean...hell, I had three close friends in high school who were all girls. I had no guy friends. And girls picked up on this, and noticed it, and drew their conclusions accordingly. I think girls are far more observant than boys are about interpesonal relations at that age, and the girls...well, they saw through my play-acting.

None of them were in the least surprised when I showed up for my ten year high school reunion...though, I will admit that I got unanimously voted for the "Most Changed" Award!!

They actually had to print one up for me, as it turned out, because it wasn't even one of the categories being voted on...yet 57 different people wrote me in for the award, and they figured they had to do it, at that point, and so they did.
I still have the certificate.

At any rate...none of the girls were at all surprised, at my ten year reunion, several of them even told me they suspected all along. One even told me that I appeared much better, much more at ease with myself and with everyone else, than I had back then.

Of course...I had chosen my new name from a girl I admired from afar in high school...she was everything I wanted to be then...and wasn't. She was pretty, she was intelligent, she was funny, and she was popular. Except for the intelligent part, I was none of that. And I desperately wanted to be her.

I ended up telling her that I had chosen my own name in her honor, because I had admired her from afar all those years ago. Needless to say, she was flattered by that.

I didn't go to my 15 year...I probably am not going to go back until, like, my 25-year reunion. Who the hell needs a reunion every 5 years?? I think 10, 25, and 50 is good enough.

If it is just as easy so wake up one moring and decide to be gay then why cant you just decide to be straight...is there something im missing? Who made the decision that you would be gay?? You or other people??? Who says you just dont want attention?
:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

How many times do we have to repeat it before people lose the idea that this is somehow a CHOICE?!?!

Would you CHOOSE to be a hated, and discriminated against minority? Would you CHOOSE to be targeted by assholes who want to hurt and kill you for your differentness? Did Matthew Shepherd CHOOSE to be gay? No. But his killers DID choose to be murderers. And you, by asking this very question, are choosing to remain insensitive and ignorant.
:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

well im glad i have one person on the whole thread on my side...thanks but back to what i said..... my best friend just came out of the closet to the whole school this week......we go to a christian school .....thats going over like a lead ballon.so it may be sounding like i dont like people who are gay thats not true i dont like what they do

Oh, come off it! That is SUCH a cop-out!! "Christians" use it all the time..."I love you, but I don't like what you do!!"
No, you Christians do NOT love us. If you do, then I'm sure as hell glad you DON'T hate us...the way you persecute us!

How about trying to remove the plank from your own eye, before worrying about the speck in your brother's eye? Or didn't they teach you that particular admonishment in your CHRISTIAN school?

*snip*

I have to agree, the whole "I love you, but I do not in ANY way aprove of what you do" thing is just as bad. It's like when a parent does the whole, "I know what you did, Im not angry, just dissappointed". It doesnt make it any better, you still have the whole looking down on us approach. Suggesting that we are inferior people, or that we can never be a normal person because of our orientation. I for one am fed up with that poor excuse of an answer, you are just trying to say that so you don't look like a dick!

Have you ever slept in a barracks ...fartin' snorin' smellin ' and hair in places it just aint meant ta be ! :D And you want to actually have SEX with one of those ? :D I always thought that's why women want to get paid ! ;)

Well, quite frankly, that is part of why I'm asexual. I don't understand men...I don't get them...and, besides, every man I ever knew in my life hurt me and let me down. My father was an abuser and an alcoholic, my brother molested me. Every male I ever counted on let me down.
But the idea of relations with another woman...well, that makes me want to sick up, quite frankly. So, I'm celibate and I like it just fine that way. I am asexual, I have as close to a zero sex drive as it is possible to have. Don't want it, don't need it...the concept of it grosses me out.

Whether it is with a male or a female...the entire concept of sex just grosses me out. I mean, hey, if you like it, great! You can have my share, because I don't want it!

what the hell is sexy about swappin spit and sweat and other bodily fluids?? I mean...sincerely?? The concept grosses me out!

IMO the lucky ones . :D absolutely nothing wrong with girls gone wild with girls..in fact not only do I endorse it , I encourage it ! :D
Sick. You men are all sick. Two girls going at each other, and you think it's Miller Time...but let two guys go at each other and you, at best want to barf...and a worst, want to pound the shit outta the two guys!

What the hell? I would think that straight men would think gay men were the greatest thing since sliced bread...shit, there's two guys who just took themselves out of the competition for women!!

Do you guys actually somehow think thaty two girls going after each other are gonna have any interest in YOU...and indulge your sick two girls on one guy sort of fantasies? Jesus Christ, why are men such PIGS?!?!?

Makes me embarrassed to have ever been one...even if, only in body, and never in mind, heart or spirit. Because I never was a guy in heart mind or spirit. Only in the body. And I had that little birth defect taken care of, thank you very much.

Well, quite frankly, that is part of why I'm asexual. I don't understand men...I don't get them...and, besides, every man I ever knew in my life hurt me and let me down. My father was an abuser and an alcoholic, my brother molested me. Every male I ever counted on let me down.
But the idea of relations with another woman...well, that makes me want to sick up, quite frankly. So, I'm celibate and I like it just fine that way. I am asexual, I have as close to a zero sex drive as it is possible to have. Don't want it, don't need it...the concept of it grosses me out.

Whether it is with a male or a female...the entire concept of sex just grosses me out. I mean, hey, if you like it, great! You can have my share, because I don't want it!

what the hell is sexy about swappin spit and sweat and other bodily fluids?? I mean...sincerely?? The concept grosses me out!

I mostly like the emotional part of the relationship, all that stuff is secondary. But there is certainly a sexual component to that as well, we are not always that gross... well... not all of us...

I mostly like the emotional part of the relationship, all that stuff is secondary. But there is certainly a sexual component to that as well, we are not always that gross... well... not all of us...

Oh, I CRAVE the emotional part of a relationship...and only with a man. I CRAVE romance, lvoe, companionship, trust...but the very concept of sex is so revolting to me...the only way I will ever be with a guy is if he is every bit as asexual as I am.

I have to agree, the whole "I love you, but I do not in ANY way aprove of what you do" thing is just as bad. It's like when a parent does the whole, "I know what you did, Im not angry, just dissappointed". It doesnt make it any better, you still have the whole looking down on us approach. Suggesting that we are inferior people, or that we can never be a normal person because of our orientation. I for one am fed up with that poor excuse of an answer, you are just trying to say that so you don't look like a dick!

Exactly. Although I think I was a bit nicer in how I went about saying it.

Fact is...Christians go around SAYING that they love us...but their actions, and the way they treat us...says that they hate us.

ACTIONS speak louder than words!

No matter what you Christians say...your ACTIONS speak of your true feelings, and we know that you hate and despise us, and wish we were all dead. So quit with the cop-out. We know better.

P.S. this is in no way intended to be directed at those few Christians who actually have God and Jesus in their HEART. Some genuinely do. And their actions also show this. They don't treat us badly. Examples of this in my life are my mother, my cousin, a former next-door neighbor.

MOST Christians....however....well, they got God and Jesus in their HEAD...but not in their HEARTS! They are too hung up on the rules and regs. They never seem to get to the part about loving everybody unconditionally...and doing unto others, as you'd have them do unto you.

This thread is for advice to Verufvia, not yet another rant against (fill in the church of your choice). Let's try not to make it about us.

As a staright-ish male. I'm all for comming out to your parents. Then again my mum routinely questions my sexuality. I think she's trying to trip me up with "Could you pass the mil...ARE YOU GAY?!!!!". So yeah.

This thread is for advice to Verufvia, not yet another rant against (fill in the church of your choice). Let's try not to make it about us.
I agree. But it is very hard to hold back when "religious" types come here and spew their hatred.

Sick. You men are all sick. Two girls going at each other, and you think it's Miller Time...but let two guys go at each other and you, at best want to barf...and a worst, want to pound the shit outta the two guys!

What the hell? I would think that straight men would think gay men were the greatest thing since sliced bread...shit, there's two guys who just took themselves out of the competition for women!!

Do you guys actually somehow think thaty two girls going after each other are gonna have any interest in YOU...and indulge your sick two girls on one guy sort of fantasies? Jesus Christ, why are men such PIGS?!?!?

Makes me embarrassed to have ever been one...even if, only in body, and never in mind, heart or spirit. Because I never was a guy in heart mind or spirit. Only in the body. And I had that little birth defect taken care of, thank you very much.

One girl is hot. Two girls is hot squared. Is it so hard to understand?

Heh. poor kid. His thread has turned into a debate. the first bit's directed at you, but after that Im just ranting about why anyone who thinks that it's easy to choose what side you play for isn't easy as some sem to think it is.

I'd like to say that, as horrible as it sounds, what you look like will really affect how people react to you being gay, and how much some people will accept you. if you are a 'normal' looking guy, it will be better than if you look in any way effeminate, up to and including being naturally nice looking or thin. you will be more likely get to get stereotyped or assumed to be a 'drag queen', who just happens to be wearing a mens clothes at the time. (about using the term drag queen: its something thats been said to me. i dont use it to offend. i admire those who feel that they want to do that and are brave enough to) As far as boyfriends, most of the guys i meet assume because i am a little effeminate looking (natural appearance, discounting any efforts to look either more or less that way) i want to be on the bottom all the time. (I like it both ways, but always the same gets monotonous) and try to coerce you to the traditional feminine roles if you live with them. (cooking, cleaning, etc) If you are a buff type, you will possibly be branded as the 'man's man' type and get called a misogynist by bitchy catholic feminists, if you know any.

(collapses into my experiences that support the above stuff now-->)
I have long hair, and seldom bother with cutting my nails. On occasion I wear foundation if i have a pimple. I dont shave, but only because i dont have body hair (I was anorexic during puberty, I grew a temporary fine fuzz, which dropped out when i started eating again and never grew back) consequently the vast majority of my straight friends have needed to have it explained to them a million times over I do NOT want to borrow their skirt, and I have never wanted to be a woman in anything other than a vauge realisation that my mother would have spoiled me rotten like she did my half sister (who is a bitch)


(and now for the rant against stupid people)
I'd like to say to those that are arguing about it, that being gay can be a choice in rare instances, for those who are bisexual or asexual, but one that would not be made by anyone old enough to understand the consequences.
When I was a kid, (talking very young here, from about the time i was 7) i was regularly hit/yelled at for doing anything that objectified women. This included looking like I might possibly be thinking a girl was pretty.

My mother was a female supremacist (rather than a feminist) she believed that women were far superior. She thought men were the ones who should be objectified. I was taught that everything a woman was was superior to being male. At that age, I hadn't many real opinions, and thought that, in that case, I was wrong to be attracted to women for their apperance or to be physically atracted to them at all. (cause being attracted to girls is objectifyibg them somehow, and I thought that other women thought like my mother did, and would hate me for approaching them) To this date, every relationship I've had with a girl has been based entirely on friendship and trust, even when I have gone out with them.
Men were supposedly the ones that should be judged for their appearance, while i dont actually think that, I thought she wanted me to do what she was doing (rather than that she was just a bitchy man hater, which i found out later she was) so I made an effort to try think of men as being sexually attractive. At that age I was too young to really be thinking about sex at all i think. it took me less than a year to find myself spontaneously being attracted to random cute guys, without having to think about why i should be. My mother regularly commented which of my friends would grow up to be 'good meat' I took that to mean that she approved of what i was doing. turns out she had no idea, she completely disowned me when i announced that I was gay.

So yeah, to those who think that people choose to be gay spontaneously:get over it. It was the most difficult thing i've done so far, but I have absolutely no desire to try to convince myself now that women are 'hot' and men aren't.
Plain and simply put, i know its illogical but i am scared to death that women secretly think like my mother did. Also, i like boys, i wouldn't want to stop liking boys.

To whoever said one girl is hot, two are hot squared, i dont think so. Sure, I will apreciate it when i see a beautiful woman, in the same way i'd appreciate art. one nice thing + another nice thing, equals two nice things. If they were going at it it would cancel out the nice. the 1 squared rule applies to boys for me, not that i'd leave it there, two guys are hot squared, + me = hot cubed. :) and its a lot fairer than those two on one things, cause everyone llikes everyone else.


(and some unrealted junk)
I have only been 'active' for the last 3 or so years. Mainly because I'm only 18 now though. :) I was really annoyed when i was younger that everyone else was dating, and all i got was strange looks from the guys who i asked did they want to come to dinner with me.

One girl is hot. Two girls is hot squared. Is it so hard to understand?

Yes, it is. Especially since I do not find one girl to be "hot." Let alone two girls being "hot squared."
Men are pigs.
I will never understand them.

Yes, it is. Especially since I do not find one girl to be "hot." Let alone two girls being "hot squared."
Men are pigs.
I will never understand them.
And you appear to not even try …

Stereotype a bit more while you are at it

As a parent with a gay son (and a hetero son, and a hetero daughter), I find it hard to believe that a parent wouldn't know already.

Either that, or your parents are clueless, and you're in the habit of not trusting them.

If you don't trust them (and you don't - otherwise you wouldn't have hidden it), then don't tell them. Ever.

Wait until you're long gone, and living your adult life. And then let them find out by accident.

I love my kids, and however they turn out is fine with me. I certainly wouldn't want them to live in fear of me finding out a major factor in their life.

And you appear to not even try …

Stereotype a bit more while you are at it
Why should I try? every man that was ever important to me in my life abused me and treated me like shit! Every man I ever counted on let me down, beat me up, sexually molested me, or verbally abused me!

There is only one exception to this. And the man in question happens to be a heterosexual crossdresser. And I consider him to be my brother, because he was more a brother to me than my own flesh and blood brother ever was.

My father was a mean, rotten, drunken alcoholic son of a bitch who beat the shit out of me, until I got big enough (at 16) to deck him. He constantly abused me and my mom, verbally, physically, mentally and emotionally. He was a domineering asshole. Life was HELL with him. I tried SO HARD to get my mom to divorce him when I was a kid, but never could quite manage it.

Finally, at 16, I did something (probably minor, I don't even remember) but it was enough to trigger another one of my dad's abuse sprees...and he came after me. I punched him three times in the kidneys and he went down. He stayed down. I told him then..."you know what I could do to you if I wanted to, don't you? The thing is, I don't want to. Because I want to be as unlike you as I possibly can be. But, I swear to God, if you ever lay another fucking finger on mother, or me, I'm gonna climb all over you like stink on shit, and I ain't gonna stop until you are REAL still! Get the picture?"

Then I left him on the floor, to sleep it off. He never did touch us again, but the verbal, mental, and emotional abuse continued, and even increased.

Meanwhile, my brother had been sexually abusing me for the last five years.

Is it any fucking WONDER I have a shitty attitude towards men? Look what they have done to me my whole life!

I'm convinced that part of the reason I am a trans, is because I wanted to be as unlike the men I observed in my life, as I could possibly be! I DO think that my growing-up environment played a role in my being trans. I knew, sure as hell, I didn't want to be a man, if that was what men were like. And, since every man I ever knew, depended upon, or counted on...always, at best let me down, and, at worst, abused the fuck out of me, and everyone else...well, I knew I wanted no part of being a man.

Why should I try? every man that was ever important to me in my life abused me and treated me like shit! Every man I ever counted on let me down, beat me up, sexually molested me, or verbally abused me!

There is only one exception to this. And the man in question happens to be a heterosexual crossdresser. And I consider him to be my brother, because he was more a brother to me than my own flesh and blood brother ever was.

My father was a mean, rotten, drunken alcoholic son of a bitch who beat the shit out of me, until I got big enough (at 16) to deck him. He constantly abused me and my mom, verbally, physically, mentally and emotionally. He was a domineering asshole. Life was HELL with him. I tried SO HARD to get my mom to divorce him when I was a kid, but never could quite manage it.

Finally, at 16, I did something (probably minor, I don't even remember) but it was enough to trigger another one of my dad's abuse sprees...and he came after me. I punched him three times in the kidneys and he went down. He stayed down. I told him then..."you know what I could do to you if I wanted to, don't you? The thing is, I don't want to. Because I want to be as unlike you as I possibly can be. But, I swear to God, if you ever lay another fucking finger on mother, or me, I'm gonna climb all over you like stink on shit, and I ain't gonna stop until you are REAL still! Get the picture?"

Then I left him on the floor, to sleep it off. He never did touch us again, but the verbal, mental, and emotional abuse continued, and even increased.

Meanwhile, my brother had been sexually abusing me for the last five years.

Is it any fucking WONDER I have a shitty attitude towards men? Look what they have done to me my whole life!

I'm convinced that part of the reason I am a trans, is because I wanted to be as unlike the men I observed in my life, as I could possibly be! I DO think that my growing-up environment played a role in my being trans. I knew, sure as hell, I didn't want to be a man, if that was what men were like. And, since every man I ever knew, depended upon, or counted on...always, at best let me down, and, at worst, abused the fuck out of me, and everyone else...well, I knew I wanted no part of being a man.

Speaking as someone who was raised abused, I can identify with the attitude.

But, in my case I set about living my life in a way that would show people how "a man" should act. And my children are proof that you can raise children without the abuse that my father perpetrated on us.

The best way to thumb your nose at the world is to get out there and show them how it's done right - and to do it over and over again.

I'm convinced that part of the reason I am a trans, is because I wanted to be as unlike the men I observed in my life, as I could possibly be! I DO think that my growing-up environment played a role in my being trans. I knew, sure as hell, I didn't want to be a man, if that was what men were like. And, since every man I ever knew, depended upon, or counted on...always, at best let me down, and, at worst, abused the fuck out of me, and everyone else...well, I knew I wanted no part of being a man.
I would like to point out that this isn't the case for every transgendered person.

Both my dad and my brother are both great guys, and I don't think my dad would ever even consider raising a hand against anyone, other than in self defence.

Why should I try? every man that was ever important to me in my life abused me and treated me like shit! Every man I ever counted on let me down, beat me up, sexually molested me, or verbally abused me!

There is only one exception to this. And the man in question happens to be a heterosexual crossdresser. And I consider him to be my brother, because he was more a brother to me than my own flesh and blood brother ever was.

My father was a mean, rotten, drunken alcoholic son of a bitch who beat the shit out of me, until I got big enough (at 16) to deck him. He constantly abused me and my mom, verbally, physically, mentally and emotionally. He was a domineering asshole. Life was HELL with him. I tried SO HARD to get my mom to divorce him when I was a kid, but never could quite manage it.

Finally, at 16, I did something (probably minor, I don't even remember) but it was enough to trigger another one of my dad's abuse sprees...and he came after me. I punched him three times in the kidneys and he went down. He stayed down. I told him then..."you know what I could do to you if I wanted to, don't you? The thing is, I don't want to. Because I want to be as unlike you as I possibly can be. But, I swear to God, if you ever lay another fucking finger on mother, or me, I'm gonna climb all over you like stink on shit, and I ain't gonna stop until you are REAL still! Get the picture?"

Then I left him on the floor, to sleep it off. He never did touch us again, but the verbal, mental, and emotional abuse continued, and even increased.

Meanwhile, my brother had been sexually abusing me for the last five years.

Is it any fucking WONDER I have a shitty attitude towards men? Look what they have done to me my whole life!

I'm convinced that part of the reason I am a trans, is because I wanted to be as unlike the men I observed in my life, as I could possibly be! I DO think that my growing-up environment played a role in my being trans. I knew, sure as hell, I didn't want to be a man, if that was what men were like. And, since every man I ever knew, depended upon, or counted on...always, at best let me down, and, at worst, abused the fuck out of me, and everyone else...well, I knew I wanted no part of being a man.

You have had a bad run there is no doubt about that but we have to try our best to overcome

I too was molested for 3 years of my life by my male strait catholic priest

Yet I do my best to realize that not all males … heterosexuals nor Catholics (or priests) are like that

Life is too short for hatred … learn to love. Some of us “pigs” try our level best to be good people as we see it … not everyone does this but some of us do. We don’t deserve to be treated or talked to like you have been stereotyping anymore then you deserved any of the hateful things done to you

Speaking as someone who was raised abused, I can identify with the attitude.

But, in my case I set about living my life in a way that would show people how "a man" should act. And my children are proof that you can raise children without the abuse that my father perpetrated on us.

The best way to thumb your nose at the world is to get out there and show them how it's done right - and to do it over and over again.
I want to thank you for treating your kids right … abuse survivors in general (and to a more severe extent sexual abuse survivors) have to work awful hard to not do what their parents did to them

I want to thank you for treating your kids right … abuse survivors in general (and to a more severe extent sexual abuse survivors) have to work awful hard to not do what their parents did to them

It is possible to live right by choice - to bury the past by heaping good things on its grave.

As a gay man I will tell you this. Don't rush it but at the same time don't wait and wait. You will know when you are ready.

Ask questions about what they think. Say that a friend of yours has come out and test their reactions. If they are positive then maybe that would be the time to say you think you might be gay yourself. If they have negative reactions then I will agree with the advice to wait until you reach 18 and go to uni.

I was lucky. My parents sort of suspected already and although they were 'disappointed' (their word) they were supportive and now almost 10 years later its simply not an issue anymore.

There are dozens of sites with good coming out advice if you look in google. And there are LGBT regions in NS such as Gay full of people who would probably be willing to give you support and advice.

Coming out is probably the hardest thing you will have to do so Good luck.

It is possible to live right by choice - to bury the past by heaping good things on its grave.
Yes it is tough work though I have been working on making sure my own past does not pop up in any unacceptable ways

Im 16 and really want to come out but am afraid that my parents might just think its a phase and totally ignore it or might disown me.

Im looking for advice maybe from gays who have come out.

What was your experience like? Were your friends and family supportive?

Obviously you should wait until Thanksgiving dinner (if you're in America, if not, choose another important family dinner) and then when you want some turkey scream, "I'M A BIG GAY HOMOSEXUAL!!!! And I want some turkey!"

Personally I think that if you are unsure of your parents response you should wait until you are able to support yourself financially. Once you leave for college your parents might start questioning things, and even eventually ask you. It's when they ask you that they are probably ready to know, and it is probably the best time to tell them.

As many people in this forum have pointed out: you're in a vulnerable position. When I was coming out during my senior year of high school I met many many young gay boys that had been thrown out by their parents. Many of them were forced to become prostitutes in order to survive, or to take up with an older "chicken hawk" that wanted a young boy to control. I also knew underage boys that had older men with HIV take their virginity without condoms. Every community has predators, gay, straight, whatever... and as a vulnerable teenager without the ability to support himself financially you would be a prime target for exploitation.

Parents could be a tough case. I guess suck it up and be ready for any reaction.

It's sucking "it" up that got them in this position in the first place. Just get a big thick Bible and hit yourself in the head until you stop being gay. With love of course.

It's sucking "it" up that got them in this position in the first place. Just get a big thick Bible and hit yourself in the head until you stop being gay. With love of course.
Why do we constantly have to put up with "religious" people who think they have good intentions (and I'm being generous here) coming into threads like this and mucking them up??

Can't you "religious" people just leave us all the fuck alone?

You have had a bad run there is no doubt about that but we have to try our best to overcome

I too was molested for 3 years of my life by my male strait catholic priest

Yet I do my best to realize that not all males … heterosexuals nor Catholics (or priests) are like that

Life is too short for hatred … learn to love. Some of us “pigs” try our level best to be good people as we see it … not everyone does this but some of us do. We don’t deserve to be treated or talked to like you have been stereotyping anymore then you deserved any of the hateful things done to you

It has nothing to do with hate or love. It is all about trust.

I simply do not TRUST men. The whole "once bitten, twice shy" thing.

The only reason I was able to trust the one and only man in my life that I do trust, is because he was a crossdresser...at least he was in touch with something outside of masculinity. But it took even him a long time to gain the level of trust I have in him now. But, he's married to a nice lady now...and, since I always considered him a brother...there was no way that a romantic relationship could ever have occurred between us.

Like I said, it's not a love/hate thing. It's a TRUST thing.

Speaking as someone who was raised abused, I can identify with the attitude.

But, in my case I set about living my life in a way that would show people how "a man" should act. And my children are proof that you can raise children without the abuse that my father perpetrated on us.

The best way to thumb your nose at the world is to get out there and show them how it's done right - and to do it over and over again.

I agree. Sometimes the way to defeat negative stereotypes is to be the exception and teach others to be the exception as well. I was sexually abused by a woman as a child. I don't think of her as an example of what women normally are, I think of her as an example that women can be as messed up as men. Yes, it took a long time to get over it, but I was driven to do so, because I feel I owe it to people to show them being abused and mistreated doesn't mean you have to be filled with hatred as a result. I feel I owe it to people to show them it doesn't HAVE to be passed on to my children.

On topic, I think the best advice for a child or young adult that is planning to tell the people who support them something they will likely have difficulty dealing with, I suggest talking to other people who know you and know your caregivers first. See what they, with an outside view, think of you telling your parents. Do you have an uncle or aunt that you can talk to who may make it easier to break the news to your parents? Do you have somewhere you can go if your parental units have complete breakdown of sanity and you have to get out (either because they force you to or because it's safer)? Unfortunately, and unfairly, you have to do some work before you out yourself to your parents. The first priority has to be your safety. Verify that it is safe to tell your parents BEFORE you tell them. That said, I would tell them as soon as it is safe to do so. I don't find anything productive in hiding who you are regardless of the reasons.

Yes it is tough work though I have been working on making sure my own past does not pop up in any unacceptable ways

Same here. It pops up in the strangest places at times though. Sometimes I'll be talking to someone and it will occur to me that they seem like an abuse survivor and I get all excited that this is someone who understand or, if not, someone I can help. I have to try hard to not just suddenly blurt out the question in the middle of the conversation. One thing I've discovered in my life is that it's very difficult to find support as a male survivor of sexual abuse. In my case, because it was from a woman, everyone has always acted as if I should have liked it. Apparently, four-year-old boys are supposed to be sexual beings. I had to wait until I was adult before I actually had anyone that was at all understanding in a conversation.

Um... I'll stop hijacking the topic now.

thanks for all your advice
id like to think i could bring this subject up again with you guys (except for maybe chellis)
its nice to have people to talk to
this is actually the first time ive ever talked to anyone about this stuff
my plan is to go to college at Berkley. Calif. and spend maybe a yr or two as an exchange student in Taiwan


So, here's the deal Verufvia... you can never predict the way your parents will react when you come out. For god's sake even Cher couldn't handle her own daughter being gay at first.

You've already stated that your father has an issue with gays.

Everybody on this forum is speaking from wisdom of their own experience, or for having watched the experiences of others, and almost unanimously everybody feels that you should wait until you are financially independent.

Congratulations on choosing Berkeley. It's an EXCELLENT school, and it's just 7 miles, and a quick BART ride, away from the most "FABULOUS!" city in North America (San Francisco. ) If you maintain an excellent GPA while you are in college you'll be able to be financially independent from your parents because of scholarships and grants. There are even grants and scholarships specifically for LGBT youth. I live in SF, and I love it. It's heaven, and you'll be right next door to heaven.

Right now you should concentrate on getting into college and let the gay part of your life sit on the back burner for a bit. That doesn't mean you should ignore being gay, it just means that you have other more important things on your plate right now. Right now you're in a vulnerable position where your parents can do all sorts of crazy things to you that will fuck you up for life. Those "Ex-gay" programs that use aversion therapy are a fine example of what homophobic extremes parents can go to. Those programs never work, and just end up destroying the self esteem and identity of the poor gay children that are subjected to them. Once you turn 18 (in less than 2 years, which might seem like a long time but really isn't) you'll have the right to say no to your parents, and to do what you want with your own life, even if that means striking out on your own.

It has nothing to do with hate or love. It is all about trust.

I simply do not TRUST men. The whole "once bitten, twice shy" thing.

The only reason I was able to trust the one and only man in my life that I do trust, is because he was a crossdresser...at least he was in touch with something outside of masculinity. But it took even him a long time to gain the level of trust I have in him now. But, he's married to a nice lady now...and, since I always considered him a brother...there was no way that a romantic relationship could ever have occurred between us.

Like I said, it's not a love/hate thing. It's a TRUST thing.
You say it is only a trust thing

Yet traditionally you don’t express a lack of trust as “all _____ are pigs”
There seems to be a bit more emotion behind that then just trust issues

Same here. It pops up in the strangest places at times though. Sometimes I'll be talking to someone and it will occur to me that they seem like an abuse survivor and I get all excited that this is someone who understand or, if not, someone I can help. I have to try hard to not just suddenly blurt out the question in the middle of the conversation. One thing I've discovered in my life is that it's very difficult to find support as a male survivor of sexual abuse. In my case, because it was from a woman, everyone has always acted as if I should have liked it. Apparently, four-year-old boys are supposed to be sexual beings. I had to wait until I was adult before I actually had anyone that was at all understanding in a conversation.

Um... I'll stop hijacking the topic now.
Yeah and even worse I am scared to death that my past my influence me to do this to my kids

Or some other form of abuse
I have seen no hint of it but I know that statistically I am more at risk

Yeah and even worse I am scared to death that my past my influence me to do this to my kids

Or some other form of abuse
I have seen no hint of it but I know that statistically I am more at risk

If you are scared your safe.

JMayo

Yeah and even worse I am scared to death that my past my influence me to do this to my kids

Or some other form of abuse
I have seen no hint of it but I know that statistically I am more at risk

I think JMayo is right, but if you ever need to talk about it, you can email me or send me a TG. Statistics mean very little to the individual. If you are struck by lightning twice, what were the odds YOU would be struck by lightning twice? 100%

If you refuse to victimize your children the way you were victimized then the odds of you victimizing them is 0%. Will is a powerful thing.

ay, i agree with all the posters before me that you shoudl try to get into contact with a local lgbt group.

school counsellors nearly always are a bad idea, professionals are hard to get by without your parents noticing, and friends..well imagine it to be hard on a 16-year-old guy to be supposed to keep the secret his friend is gay. all i'm saying is that it is a high risk.it's one fo the things very few people can keep to themselves.


googling is, of course, always a good idea. you might want to try
www.outproud.org
www.planetout.com
www.pflag.org

in order to find support groups in your area. there are tons more, those are the ones that came to my mind instantly.

Go to google, and type in "porn."
What, so his parents will walk in and see a monitor covered in pussy?

ye, that would be a great way to go :rolleyes: want to probably hang up a couple posters with hot chicks on them as well, eh? :rolleyes:

If I was gay, which im not, you should try to hint at it first, then tell them upright, If I was told my kid was gay I would just be happy that he/she did not want to marry for the pysical side of marrage, so instead of marrying because he has a nice butt, or she has nice rack, they would care about the others feelings, and not their needs..

I'd like to say to those that are arguing about it, that being gay can be a choice in rare instances, for those who are bisexual or asexual.
Not to be pedantic (okay, yes I am) but you are saying "you can choose to be gay if you happen to be bisexual". Either you are gay or you are bisexual. If you are bisexual you can choose to act only on your gay impulses if you want, but you are still bisexual, you are not "choosing to be gay".

If you are truly asexual, you cannot "choose" to be anything at all, though you may have sex with men or women or sheep or soft fruit just to see what it's all about. If you aren't attracted to either gender sexually, you are asexual and that isn't changed by the act of having sex with someone you are not feeling any attraction for while staring at the clock and waiting for it to be over so you can watch TV.

If I was gay, which im not,

Haha. No need to compensate.

I think JMayo is right, but if you ever need to talk about it, you can email me or send me a TG. Statistics mean very little to the individual. If you are struck by lightning twice, what were the odds YOU would be struck by lightning twice? 100%

If you refuse to victimize your children the way you were victimized then the odds of you victimizing them is 0%. Will is a powerful thing.
I think I misrepresented myself lol ... I want to note that I have no urges and no kids right now ... just wary of having any later in life

Not to be pedantic (okay, yes I am) but you are saying "you can choose to be gay if you happen to be bisexual". Either you are gay or you are bisexual. If you are bisexual you can choose to act only on your gay impulses if you want, but you are still bisexual, you are not "choosing to be gay".

If you are truly asexual, you cannot "choose" to be anything at all, though you may have sex with men or women or sheep or soft fruit just to see what it's all about. If you aren't attracted to either gender sexually, you are asexual and that isn't changed by the act of having sex with someone you are not feeling any attraction for while staring at the clock and waiting for it to be over so you can watch TV.
Agreed (as a bisexual) I don’t choose who I fall in love with it just happens. Just because we are sometimes attracted to both sexes does not mean that because of that we can just randomly choose to not be attracted to one or the other.

You say it is only a trust thing

Yet traditionally you don’t express a lack of trust as “all _____ are pigs”
There seems to be a bit more emotion behind that then just trust issues

I get absolutely DISGUSTED by men who express their sexual needs, desires, fantasies. I think they are absolutely gross! Especially since most of their fantasies seem to involve objectifying, or debasing, women!

I get absolutely DISGUSTED by men who express their sexual needs, desires, fantasies. I think they are absolutely gross! Especially since most of their fantasies seem to involve objectifying, or debasing, women!

Hmm. Nice generalization there. So men aren't supposed to have or express any sexual needs, desires, or fantasies?

I suppose that I'm supposed to look at a man's hairy ass and find love, then.

I get absolutely DISGUSTED by men who express their sexual needs, desires, fantasies. I think they are absolutely gross! Especially since most of their fantasies seem to involve objectifying, or debasing, women!
Having distaste and stereotyping a whole group of people (you said MEN you did not differentiate) are very different beasts.

I find your lack of fantasies/needs to be a bit confusing and hard to understand and to me distasteful … but I don’t stereotype all transsexuals as anything based on my distaste for the individual acts they may or may not enjoy

Not to be pedantic (okay, yes I am) but you are saying "you can choose to be gay if you happen to be bisexual". Either you are gay or you are bisexual. If you are bisexual you can choose to act only on your gay impulses if you want, but you are still bisexual, you are not "choosing to be gay".

If you are truly asexual, you cannot "choose" to be anything at all, though you may have sex with men or women or sheep or soft fruit just to see what it's all about. If you aren't attracted to either gender sexually, you are asexual and that isn't changed by the act of having sex with someone you are not feeling any attraction for while staring at the clock and waiting for it to be over so you can watch TV.

Generally, you got the right idea about asexuals, anyway...being as I am one. I have had sexual experiences with two females...and one male. Did nothing but repulsed me, couldn't WAIT to get it over with. Of course, at first, I just thought it was the other person, so, naturally, I had to try again. Still, the same thing. So then I tried the other gender, thinking THAT might be it. Nope. So I haven't had any sex since, and don't want it, either. I find sex, in all forms, to be disgusting.

I get absolutely DISGUSTED by men who express their sexual needs, desires, fantasies. I think they are absolutely gross! Especially since most of their fantasies seem to involve objectifying, or debasing, women!

That makes me recall fond memories of sitting on a bench in Stuttgart with a lesbian who was coming on to the more attractive women who were walking down the street. And making lewd comments, suggestions, and catcalls.

It's always great to hear a woman yell, "Hey baby! Nice tits!"

I get absolutely DISGUSTED by men who express their sexual needs, desires, fantasies. I think they are absolutely gross! Especially since most of their fantasies seem to involve objectifying, or debasing, women!
Wow.

You have serious issues.

Hmm. Nice generalization there. So men aren't supposed to have or express any sexual needs, desires, or fantasies?

I suppose that I'm supposed to look at a man's hairy ass and find love, then.

Not ones that objectify and debase women...no.

Only pigs want to objectify and debase women. Only pigs care only for their own desires, with no care for the desires of the other person involved in the sex.
In my case, being asexual, quite frankly EVERYONE'S sexual needs and desires gross me out, I find them all disgusting. But I find certain male fantasies not only disgusting, but also offensive. And that is when the fantasy involves objectifying or debasing women.

Men can keep that shit among themselves, and not post it on a public forum where women are gonna be. Keep that kinda talk to your male buddies, when you are all around the poker table, swilling beer, making crude jokes, belching and farting, okay?

Having distaste and stereotyping a whole group of people (you said MEN you did not differentiate) are very different beasts.

I find your lack of fantasies/needs to be a bit confusing and hard to understand and to me distasteful … but I don’t stereotype all transsexuals as anything based on my distaste for the individual acts they may or may not enjoy

What is distasteful about having a LACK of sexual desires? I can certainly understand where it might be confusing, or hard to understand...to someone who isn't asexual. but how can it be "distasteful??"

Not ones that objectify and debase women...no.

Only pigs want to objectify and debase women. Only pigs care only for their own desires, with no care for the desires of the other person involved in the sex.
In my case, being asexual, quite frankly EVERYONE'S sexual needs and desires gross me out, I find them all disgusting. But I find certain male fantasies not only disgusting, but also offensive. And that is when the fantasy involves objectifying or debasing women.

Men can keep that shit among themselves, and not post it on a public forum where women are gonna be. Keep that kinda talk to your male buddies, when you are all around the poker table, swilling beer, making crude jokes, belching and farting, okay?
I find your stereotyping all males as pigs offensive … care to keep that off the forums too?

(how did pigs get such a bad rap anyways they are a wonderfully smart animal in comparison to most of the animal kingdom)

Wow.

You have serious issues.

You needn't stick your two cents in, Nadkor. I suggest you refrain from comments like that, or I will take further action. You are already on my list for other reasons, so don't push me, because I'm far less inclined to take shit off of you, than just about anyone.

P.S. Your comments are not welcome nor wanted, by the person you addressed them to (me) and you sure as HELL do not have psychoanalyst's credetials. So you can take comments like that and keep them to yourself in the future.

Any further comments like that from you...to me or about me...and I will take it as flame/flamebait, and take the appropriate action.

P.S.S. Just because I have you on ignore, it does not mean you can go around flaming or flamebaiting me. I can and DO read the posts of people on my Ignore List, if I have reason to believe that they are directed at me...or are ABOUT me.

What is distasteful about having a LACK of sexual desires? I can certainly understand where it might be confusing, or hard to understand...to someone who isn't asexual. but how can it be "distasteful??"

dis•taste•ful P Pronunciation Key (d s-t st f l)
adj.
1.
a. Unpleasant; disagreeable: found cocktail parties distasteful.

To me not being able to express your love physically is defiantly unpleasant

Not ones that objectify and debase women...no.

Only pigs want to objectify and debase women. Only pigs care only for their own desires, with no care for the desires of the other person involved in the sex.
In my case, being asexual, quite frankly EVERYONE'S sexual needs and desires gross me out, I find them all disgusting. But I find certain male fantasies not only disgusting, but also offensive. And that is when the fantasy involves objectifying or debasing women.

Men can keep that shit among themselves, and not post it on a public forum where women are gonna be. Keep that kinda talk to your male buddies, when you are all around the poker table, swilling beer, making crude jokes, belching and farting, okay?

Seen plenty of lesbians talking crude, swilling beer, and ogling and inappropriately grabbing women's breasts and buttocks.

You had better add them, too.

To me not being able to express your love physically is defiantly unpleasant

Expressing love and lust (yes lust!) physically is part of human nature. It's not restricted to men.

And most people do it and enjoy it. Not all, but most.

Personally, I can't live without it.

To me not being able to express your love physically is defiantly unpleasant

I can express my love physically. Just not sexually. I think it's disgusting. It repels me. Kissing is one thing. But swappin' spit is another. To say nothing of swapping other disgusting body fluids.

Seen plenty of lesbians talking crude, swilling beer, and ogling and inappropriately grabbing women's breasts and buttocks.

You had better add them, too.

I believe another lesbian here already mentioned...and quite accurately...that there is a rather strained, at best, relationship between lesbians and MTF TS's. I thought it went without saying.

Expressing love and lust (yes lust!) physically is part of human nature. It's not restricted to men.

And most people do it and enjoy it. Not all, but most.

Personally, I can't live without it.

good for you! Have my share! I can't live WITH it!!

I can express my love physically. Just not sexually. I think it's disgusting. It repels me. Kissing is one thing. But swappin' spit is another. To say nothing of swapping other disgusting body fluids.
Fair enough what I meant by physically I suppose was sexually

And I find that fluid exchange hot as hell
How does that somehow make you better then me? (sorry but getting massively superior attitude from here … might be not intended but that’s what I am getting)

I believe another lesbian here already mentioned...and quite accurately...that there is a rather strained, at best, relationship between lesbians and MTF TS's. I thought it went without saying.

I must have missed that post.

You needn't stick your two cents in, Nadkor. I suggest you refrain from comments like that, or I will take further action. You are already on my list for other reasons, so don't push me, because I'm far less inclined to take shit off of you, than just about anyone.

P.S. Your comments are not welcome nor wanted, by the person you addressed them to (me) and you sure as HELL do not have psychoanalyst's credetials. So you can take comments like that and keep them to yourself in the future.

Any further comments like that from you...to me or about me...and I will take it as flame/flamebait, and take the appropriate action.

I kindly suggest that you take a break from this thread for a while. You are being truculent and downright unpleasant. The amount of hostility you have been displaying in this thread is grossly unwarranted and is not reflecting well on you. For your own sake, please, step away if this is becoming such an emotional experience for you.

You needn't stick your two cents in, Nadkor. I suggest you refrain from comments like that, or I will take further action. You are already on my list for other reasons, so don't push me, because I'm far less inclined to take shit off of you, than just about anyone.

Well, look at it like this.

You stereotype all men as pigs based on your experiences with a couple of men (yet, you try to fight predjudice and stereotyping of transgenders).

You attack all men based on your experiences. That is no more right than me attacking all Christians based on the actions of a couple I have met, or attacking all black people because one black person I once met was an asshole.

And now you say that you find the expression of natural male sexual desire to be disgusting and "gross". Why? Because it "objectifys" women? I'm sure you must also hate the expression of female sexual desire as well, because it's exactly the same.

Is it the expression of male sexual desire you hate, or is it really the expression of all sexual desire (hidden behind your irrational and, frankly, absurd predjudices against males) that you hate?

Could this possibly be because you are asexual, and as you have shown time and time again you will attack and attack anybody who disagrees with you about anything?

Fair enough what I meant by physically I suppose was sexually

And I find that fluid exchange hot as hell
How does that somehow make you better then me? (sorry but getting massively superior attitude from here … might be not intended but that’s what I am getting)

I find it disgusting! I can't see what is "hot" about exchanging disgusting body fluids. And, if you are getting that sort of a read from me, then you're wrong. If it works for you, then bully for you, have my share...I don't want it or need it...I find it disgusting. It does not make me better than you. It makes me different from you.
But I would sure appreciate the crude, disgusting comments to stop. I'm sick and tired of men going off about how "hot" two lesbians going at each other is. I think it is debasing to women to make such comments...especially in the presence of women. Keep that sort of stuff among yourselves, at your beer-swilling card games where y'all tell crude jokes and belch and fart.

Keep that sort of stuff among yourselves, at your beer-swilling card games where y'all tell crude jokes and belch and fart.

Never been to a beer swilling card game where guys told crude jokes and belched and farted.

To the starter of this thread: Your not gay...you only think you are. And even though there is something wrong with you, you can change. All you have to do is try. Stop being gay...and all these problems will go away, you can keep your family, and you can keep your friends. I dont see what the problem is.

I find it disgusting! I can't see what is "hot" about exchanging disgusting body fluids. And, if you are getting that sort of a read from me, then you're wrong. If it works for you, then bully for you, have my share...I don't want it or need it...I find it disgusting. It does not make me better than you. It makes me different from you.
But I would sure appreciate the crude, disgusting comments to stop. I'm sick and tired of men going off about how "hot" two lesbians going at each other is. I think it is debasing to women to make such comments...especially in the presence of women. Keep that sort of stuff among yourselves, at your beer-swilling card games where y'all tell crude jokes and belch and fart.
And I am tired of hearing how disgusting it is ... but I still think you have a right to say it anyways

beer-swilling card games where y'all tell crude jokes and belch and fart.
These don't happen.

Your not gay...you only think you are. And even though there is something wrong with you, you can change. All you have to do is try. Stop being gay...and all these problems will go away, you can keep your family, and you can keep your friends. I dont see what the problem is.
Lol stop being strait then :p silly :fluffle: :fluffle: I think you need some hot man on man action to pleasure you

I kindly suggest that you take a break from this thread for a while. You are being truculent and downright unpleasant. The amount of hostility you have been displaying in this thread is grossly unwarranted and is not reflecting well on you. For your own sake, please, step away if this is becoming such an emotional experience for you.

I was part of this thread long before Nadkor was! Why the hell should it always be ME who backs off?!!? Nadkor was WAY OFF BASE with her unwelcome comments. Yet, who do you choose to take up saides for?

why am I not surprised?

I was doing just fine on this thread until you people started showing up! Look who was here, offering damned good advice, almost from jump street. sure as hell was your "GLBT Army." It was ME. And others who were not part of your little club. In fact, I was beginning to wonder when you guys would ever show up. You're as welcome here as I am, but you can leave ME the hell alone. And that goes for Nadkor, too.

To the starter of this thread: Your not gay...you only think you are. And even though there is something wrong with you, you can change. All you have to do is try. Stop being gay...and all these problems will go away, you can keep your family, and you can keep your friends. I dont see what the problem is.

http://www.bentsynapse.net/insults/images/feed_troll.jpg

Your not gay...you only think you are. And even though there is something wrong with you, you can change. All you have to do is try. Stop being gay...and all these problems will go away, you can keep your family, and you can keep your friends. I dont see what the problem is.
Troll much?

These don't happen.
Yeah we usually drink whisky … but we aint into the crude joke thing much

Lol stop being strait then :p silly :fluffle: :fluffle: I think you need some hot man on man action to pleasure you

UGH thats disgusting. I'm about to barf...and why would I want to stop being straight...I dont have any problems from it.

To the starter of this thread: Your not gay...you only think you are. And even though there is something wrong with you, you can change. All you have to do is try. Stop being gay...and all these problems will go away, you can keep your family, and you can keep your friends. I dont see what the problem is.

I'd comment on what a witty piece of sarcasm that was if I didn't know you were being serious. You need to read some reputable psychology papers.

UGH thats disgusting. I'm about to barf...and why would I want to stop being straight...I dont have any problems from it.
That’s just cause there is more of you … but my point is that you probably wouldn’t be able to change your sexual orientation any more then they could
Just look at your reaction to the man on man comment

Look who was here, offering damned good advice, almost from jump street. sure as hell was your "GLBT Army." It was ME. And others who were not part of your little club. I
Read the first pages of the thread, Fass was one of the very few people offering realistic advice

Well, look at it like this.

You stereotype all men as pigs based on your experiences with a couple of men (yet, you try to fight predjudice and stereotyping of transgenders).

You attack all men based on your experiences. That is no more right than me attacking all Christians based on the actions of a couple I have met, or attacking all black people because one black person I once met was an asshole.

And now you say that you find the expression of natural male sexual desire to be disgusting and "gross". Why? Because it "objectifys" women? I'm sure you must also hate the expression of female sexual desire as well, because it's exactly the same.

Is it the expression of male sexual desire you hate, or is it really the expression of all sexual desire (hidden behind your irrational and, frankly, absurd predjudices against males) that you hate?

Could this possibly be because you are asexual, and as you have shown time and time again you will attack and attack anybody who disagrees with you about anything?


Read my posts, you will find the answer. I have asked you once, and I will ask you one more time, as a courtesy. Do not talk TO me...or ABOUT me...on this, or any other thread, Nadkor. I thought I made myself clear.

I cannot prevent you from participating in this thread, but I am telling you that I am going to consider any further comments from you TO me or ABOUT me as flame/flamebait, because you are hereby being told that such postings are not welcome or wanted from you.

Participate in this thread as you will. Leave ME the hell alone. You are far from my favorite person, if you didn't already know it, Nadkor.

Lol stop being strait then :p silly :fluffle: :fluffle: I think you need some hot man on man action to pleasure you
No, no - he needs to be bisexual - doubles his chances of scoring on a Friday night.

No, no - he needs to be bisexual - doubles his chances of scoring on a Friday night.
If that were only true :cry:

I was part of this thread long before Nadkor was! Why the hell should it always be ME who backs off?!!?

Because it is you who is behaving in this manner. I would hate to see you banned for this pugnacious behaviour. I'm giving you an advice you should heed here. You are not helping anyone's cause, and especially not your own, by lashing out at people and, frankly, acting just like the bigots you are trying to attack.

Take it or leave it. No skin off my back. But, please, reconsider your course of action here.

To the starter of this thread: Your not gay...you only think you are. And even though there is something wrong with you, you can change. All you have to do is try. Stop being gay...and all these problems will go away, you can keep your family, and you can keep your friends. I dont see what the problem is.
To The Atlantian Islands: You're not straight, you only think you are. And even though there is something wrong with you, you can change. All you have to do is try. stop being straight...and all these problems will go away, you can lose your family and you can lose your friends. I don't see what the problem is.

That’s just cause there is more of you … but my point is that you probably wouldn’t be able to change your sexual orientation any more then they could
Just look at your reaction to the man on man comment

my reaction is a normal one to that of a not normal action.

Im 16 and really want to come out but am afraid that my parents might just think its a phase and totally ignore it or might disown me.

Im looking for advice maybe from gays who have come out.

What was your experience like? Were your friends and family supportive?

Gays are Evil.

To The Atlantian Islands: You're not straight, you only think you are. And even though there is something wrong with you, you can change. All you have to do is try. stop being straight...and all these problems will go away, you can lose your family and you can lose your friends. I don't see what the problem is.

Ah ha! But there isnt anything wrong with being straight....THERE is something wrong with being gay...

my reaction is a normal one to that of a not normal action.
Your right its not statistically normal … that makes it special and unique … and in my mind beautiful sometimes

Read the first pages of the thread, Fass was one of the very few people offering realistic advice

And you think that I didn't offer shit for advice? I was here, offering good, sound advice long before you. Now for the last time, YOU LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE, NADKOR!