NationStates Jolt Archive

Ah ha! But there isnt anything wrong with being straight....THERE is something wrong with being gay...
Nope it feels so right

Gays are Evil.

AMEN

Indeed. Gay's go against the devine creator and his will. Gay's are mentaly incompitent and should be shunned.

Gays are Evil.
Come here you troll :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

Because it is you who is behaving in this manner. I would hate to see you banned for this pugnacious behaviour. I'm giving you an advice you should heed here. You are not helping anyone's cause, and especially not your own, by lashing out at people and, frankly, acting just like the bigots you are trying to attack.

Take it or leave it. No skin off my back. But, please, reconsider your course of action here.

I am merely asking someone who I intensely dislike to leave me alone.

You'll notice, way back earlier in the thread...I was giving valuable and useful advice. I have only turned this way since you and Nadkor started getting on my case. I have several times politely requested Nadkor to not make comments TO ME...or ABOUT ME. I do not like her, her comments to and about me are not welcome, and she has been told this.

Now, if you and she would simply leave me alone, as I have requested...the whole thing would die down already. Instead, you seem to feel a need to keep it going. This is called flamebait, when you continue to go after someone when you KNOW it is only going to make them mad, and inflame the situation.

I have already said you guys are welcome to participate in this thread...I cannot stop you. but I can sure as HELL ask that you not make comments TO or ABOUT me.

Your right its not statistically normal … that makes it special and unique … and in my mind beautiful sometimes

Great...and in the mind of the MAJORITY that makes you a freak.

Indeed. Gay's go against the devine creator and his will. Gay's are mentaly incompitent and should be shunned.
He would have to exist to go against him

Great...and in the mind of the MAJORITY that makes you a freak.
I’m fine with that as long as they don’t try to stand in the way of my freedoms. They have every right to be wrong just like the next man or woman

He would have to exist to go against him

You are evil too. All who do not belive in the Devine Creator are evil and will be shunned in the afterlife.

And you think that I didn't offer shit for advice? I was here, offering good, sound advice long before you. Now for the last time, YOU LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE, NADKOR!
Read what I quoted.

Look who was here, offering damned good advice, almost from jump street. sure as hell was your "GLBT Army." It was ME

You claim it was 'YOU'. Fass was here long before you were.

Great...and in the mind of the MAJORITY that makes you a freak.
Well isn't it just as well that "majority rules" isn't something that most western governments isn't based on.

You are evil too. All who do not belive in the Devine Creator are evil and will be shunned in the afterlife.
Naw if he exists he will love me for who I am ... if not he does not deserve worship anyways

Either way I win

Well isn't it just as well that "majority rules" isn't something that most western governments isn't based on.

Actualy it is, thats the consept of a demoracy you know.

Indeed. Gay's go against the devine creator and his will. Gay's are mentaly incompitent and should be shunned.

Of course.

Hey Mich you know what I love...How fags and fag lovers are always preaching tolerance of opinions...yet they dont tolerate the Opinions of the majority. Throwing out comments like how God has to exist to go against fags is very intolerant to the vast number of beleivers that outnumber the non beleivers. What do you think?

Actualy it is, thats the consept of a demoracy you know.
Nope, most western democracies have safeguards against "majority rules" over minorities.

Naw if he exists he will love me for who I am ... if not he does not deserve worship anyways

Either way I win

Actualy, he does deserve worship. He is almighty, he created us, he makes good things happen, and he loves each and every one of us. He says for everyone to worship him, and your goign against him. Therefor, you will go to hell like the Gays and Non-Believers.

Great...and in the mind of the MAJORITY that makes you a freak.
I guess that if I'm doing anything that the majority of people are not doing, that makes me a freak.

Ok, I'll play.

My wife and I are swingers, and we invite men over (multiple men at one time) to play. Sometimes they bring their wives or girlfriends, sometimes they don't.

I used to engage in bisexual play when I was much younger, but I don't anymore, as I seem to prefer women, but I like watching men perform.

I'm a Pentacostal Christian, vote Republican, think libertarian with no moral restrictions, and carry a gun all the time (legal permit).

I don't know many people like that, so I guess I'm a freak.

I guess that if I'm doing anything that the majority of people are not doing, that makes me a freak.

Ok, I'll play.

My wife and I are swingers, and we invite men over (multiple men at one time) to play. Sometimes they bring their wives or girlfriends, sometimes they don't.

I used to engage in bisexual play when I was much younger, but I don't anymore, as I seem to prefer women, but I like watching men perform.

I'm a Pentacostal Christian, vote Republican, think libertarian with no moral restrictions, and carry a gun all the time (legal permit).

I don't know many people like that, so I guess I'm a freak.

Your only a freak in the bisexual aspect.

Of course.

Hey Mich you know what I love...How fags and fag lovers are always preaching tolerance of opinions...yet they dont tolerate the Opinions of the majority. Throwing out comments like how God has to exist to go against fags is very intolerant to the vast number of beleivers that outnumber the non beleivers. What do you think?

Amen my friend. Gay's are intollerant of everyone except for themselves.

P.S About the guy who was bisexual and votes republican. Doesnt matter, your still abnormal and a freak, and, unless you ask God for forgiveness, you WILL go to hell.

Of course.

Hey Mich you know what I love...How fags and fag lovers are always preaching tolerance of opinions...yet they dont tolerate the Opinions of the majority. Throwing out comments like how God has to exist to go against fags is very intolerant to the vast number of beleivers that outnumber the non beleivers. What do you think?
Saying that "fags" are disgusting etc. based on the Christian Bible is very intolerant to the large number of Christians who truly follow the teachings of Jesus.

Your only a freak in the bisexual aspect.

Oh, so it's ok for men to come over and have sex with my wife? And for me to have sex with their wives?

You claim it was 'YOU'. Fass was here long before you were.

Yeah. A whole whopping 37 minutes!

Saying that "fags" are disgusting etc. based on the Christian Bible is very intolerant to the large number of Christians who truly follow the teachings of Jesus.

Uh huh...and I'm sure that they are just loving fags....Because its not like God specificly said that it was a sin to be Gay. Im willing to bet my left testicle that any Christian/Jew who truly follows the bible knows that.

Of course.

Hey Mich you know what I love...How fags and fag lovers are always preaching tolerance of opinions...yet they dont tolerate the Opinions of the majority. Throwing out comments like how God has to exist to go against fags is very intolerant to the vast number of beleivers that outnumber the non beleivers. What do you think?
No I am preaching you don’t IMPOSE YOURSELF on us

You can think whatever the fuck you want and say it (well restricted by forum rules here) but where I draw the line is forcing your OPINION on them and me

Amen my friend. Gay's are intollerant of everyone except for themselves.

P.S About the guy who was bisexual and votes republican. Doesnt matter, your still abnormal and a freak, and, unless you ask God for forgiveness, you WILL go to hell.

Exactly...P.S. Sprechens sie Duetsch?

Of course.

Hey Mich you know what I love...How fags and fag lovers are always preaching tolerance of opinions...yet they dont tolerate the Opinions of the majority. Throwing out comments like how God has to exist to go against fags is very intolerant to the vast number of beleivers that outnumber the non beleivers. What do you think?

As Bill Maher would say....we should not be so tolerant as to tolerate intolerance. You figure it out.

Alas, I was wondering how long it would take for the uber-christians to show up. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell if they’re just trolling or actually feel this way. I say everyone ignores them until they go away.

And for Lyric and Nadkor and Fass and everyone else…do you really think you’re doing this kid a favor by turning his thread into a spat? I don’t even know what the problem was, and I’m not going to read this whole thread a second time to find out, but come on…think about why this thread was started and then think if you are helping it any at this point.

Oh, so it's ok for men to come over and have sex with my wife? And for me to have sex with their wives?

Of course not...why would you put those words in my mouth???

Read what I quoted.
You claim it was 'YOU'. Fass was here long before you were.

It's not worth it. Leave her be. You don't want to fall into the hole she's digging for herself. If she won't heed friendly advice, she won't heed your dissent.

Yeah. A whole whopping 37 minutes!
Yep, despite your claims that you were offering advice long before anyone else.

Actualy, he does deserve worship. He is almighty, he created us, he makes good things happen, and he loves each and every one of us. He says for everyone to worship him, and your goign against him. Therefor, you will go to hell like the Gays and Non-Believers.
I guess we will find out in the end then ... for some reason I am not sweating it

Of course not...why would you put those words in my mouth???
Because you claimed only the bisexual part was wrong

Actualy, he does deserve worship. He is almighty, he created us, he makes good things happen, and he loves each and every one of us. He says for everyone to worship him, and your goign against him. Therefor, you will go to hell like the Gays and Non-Believers.

Can't have it both ways! so what is it, dude? does he love us....or does "God Hate Fags?" What is it, dude?

Of course not...why would you put those words in my mouth???

Well, you said it was only a problem being bisexual.

BTW, I bet I've had a lot more sex than you'll ever have.

Markuk']Alas, I was wondering how long it would take for the uber-christians to show up. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell if they’re just trolling or actually feel this way. I say everyone ignores them until they go away.

And for Lyric and Nadkor and Fass and everyone else…do you really think you’re doing this kid a favor by turning his thread into a spat? I don’t even know what the problem was, and I’m not going to read this whole thread a second time to find out, but come on…think about why this thread was started and then think if you are helping it any at this point.

Ahhhhh so now we are stereotyping....Oh ok I see another one of the way you "guys" are tolerant. I am actually Jewish.....You dont have to be Christian to be against gays...you just have to have an IQ above 10.

It's not worth it. Leave her be. You don't want to fall into the hole she's digging for herself. If she won't heed friendly advice, she won't heed your dissent.
Point taken.

Amen my friend. Gay's are intollerant of everyone except for themselves.

P.S About the guy who was bisexual and votes republican. Doesnt matter, your still abnormal and a freak, and, unless you ask God for forgiveness, you WILL go to hell.

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Well, you said it was only a problem being bisexual.

BTW, I bet I've had a lot more sex than you'll ever have.

OHHHH right...because you know me and all.....

If your friends are real friends, they won't care at all. I'm not gay, but in my group of friends, when someone came out no one really cared, even the slightly homophobic people. They just learned to stop being stupid, because the person was still the same person.

Parents... I don't really know what to say about them. Sorry.

Uh huh...and I'm sure that they are just loving fags....Because its not like God specificly said that it was a sin to be Gay. Im willing to bet my left testicle that any Christian/Jew who truly follows the bible knows that.
Surely a CHRISTian should follow the teachings of Jesus CHRIST.

Ahhhhh so now we are stereotyping....Oh ok I see another one of the way you "guys" are tolerant. I am actually Jewish.....You dont have to be Christian to be against gays...you just have to have an IQ above 10.
Hmmm my iq is considerably above that but I don’t draw the same conclusion maybe your reasoning is flawed

OHHHH right...because you know me and all.....

So, show me in the Torah or Talmud where a woman can't be a lesbian.

A trick question, because I used to be Jewish, and the rabbis told me the answer already.

OHHHH right...because you know me and all.....
That’s why he said “bet” not “know”

Surely a CHRISTian should follow the teachings of Jesus CHRIST.

more stereotypes...I'm actually Jewish.

Ahhhhh so now we are stereotyping....Oh ok I see another one of the way you "guys" are tolerant. I am actually Jewish.....You dont have to be Christian to be against gays...you just have to have an IQ above 10.

Don't have to be Christian? Heck, you don't even have to be religious! Reminds me of growing up in a rural Minnesota high school...man, when one person in my grade came out, everybody FREAKED OUT. If I didn't feel so bad for the guy it would have been funny the reaction he elicited. And trust me, those people were NOT religious. We're talking the students who average a minor consumption charge every 2 weeks.

See what I did there? I told everyone to ignore the trolls, and then I go and respond...guess it's harder than I thought.

Hmmm my iq is considerably above that but I don’t draw the same conclusion maybe your reasoning is flawed

maybe your flawed....

more stereotypes...I'm actually Jewish.
I never said you were anything, don't assume. Read my post again.

So, show me in the Torah or Talmud where a woman can't be a lesbian.

A trick question, because I used to be Jewish, and the rabbis told me the answer already.

It doesnt..because there were no lesbian women back then.

Markuk']Alas, I was wondering how long it would take for the uber-christians to show up. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell if they’re just trolling or actually feel this way. I say everyone ignores them until they go away.

And for Lyric and Nadkor and Fass and everyone else…do you really think you’re doing this kid a favor by turning his thread into a spat? I don’t even know what the problem was, and I’m not going to read this whole thread a second time to find out, but come on…think about why this thread was started and then think if you are helping it any at this point.

Exactly why I asked Nadkor...quite politely I thought (at least, at first) to simply leave me alone, and refrain from making remarks to or about me...because I knew it would lead to a spat. This is a long-ongoing feud, you'd find no clue about it reviewing the entire thread, it goes back a lot further.) My point then, as now...was to simply ask that person to leave ME alone, as it is quite clear to me that the two of us can only peacefully co-exist if we completely ignore one another.

I don't wish for our spat to hijack this thread, and so I politely requested Nadkor to stop addressing me, and to stop making comments about me.

It doesnt..because there were no lesbian women back then.
Oh, I'm sure there were.

Oh, I'm sure there were.

Nope

Yep, despite your claims that you were offering advice long before anyone else.

What part of "PLEASE LEAVE ME ALONE" do you not understand?

Nope
Prove it.

maybe your flawed....
Always a possibility … but I have not seen enough evidence to support that conclusion as of yet

It doesnt..because there were no lesbian women back then.

You just keep on living in that little world of yours, sweetie. Don't wanna let mean, old reality burst your bubble.

Edit: Also, if you think that's actually true, you might want to do some research into where the word 'lesbian' comes from, and read the book of Ruth.

Nope

Sappho might tend to disagree with you.

What part of "PLEASE LEAVE ME ALONE" do you not understand?
Do you always have to get the last work? Help with your insecurities

Fine, I can't be arsed with you anymore. Even if I tried to have a serious discussion with you, you would probably leap into a tirade about how im flaming you etc.

You know, I've been reading your earlier posts in this thread, and it helps me...because it gives me some idea of what the worst I can expect is. Over the last few pages I have come to wish it was anybody but you who had posted them.

How about you guys start a new thread, "Is homosexuality wrong?" and then you can have your arguements there?

This kid started a thread because he wanted some advice. Can we not try and help him, instead of getting sidetracked?

Exactly why I asked Nadkor...quite politely I thought (at least, at first) to simply leave me alone, and refrain from making remarks to or about me...because I knew it would lead to a spat. This is a long-ongoing feud, you'd find no clue about it reviewing the entire thread, it goes back a lot further.) My point then, as now...was to simply ask that person to leave ME alone, as it is quite clear to me that the two of us can only peacefully co-exist if we completely ignore one another.

I don't wish for our spat to hijack this thread, and so I politely requested Nadkor to stop addressing me, and to stop making comments about me.

All right, I thought I’d try and be the sweet voice of reason in a thread gone mad, but if this is something that goes back even further, I guess that won’t work. I do feel sorry for the guy who’s thread has turned into this madhouse of intolerance for each other.

How about you guys start a new thread, "Is homosexuality wrong?" and then you can have your arguements there?

This kid started a thread because he wanted some advice. Can we not try and help him, instead of getting sidetracked?
New to NS General?

Do you always have to get the last work? Help with your insecurities

Fine, I can't be arsed with you anymore. Even if I tried to have a serious discussion with you, you would probably leap into a tirade about how im flaming you etc.

You know, I've been reading your earlier posts in this thread, and it helps me...because it gives me some idea of what the worst I can expect is. Over the last few pages I have come to wish it was anybody but you who had posted them.

Hmmm...seems to me YOU keep trying to get the last word in...and I keep merely asking you to LEAVE ME ALONE. Sure you're not engaging in a bit of projection here?

Hmmm...seems to me YOU keep trying to get the last word in...and I keep merely asking you to LEAVE ME ALONE. Sure you're not engaging in a bit of projection here?
Jesus H Christ just be the bigger woman and drop it … I know its hard but it is YOU that requested to be left alone … do the same favor to him/her (sorry NAK cant remember)

How about you guys start a new thread, "Is homosexuality wrong?" and then you can have your arguements there?

This kid started a thread because he wanted some advice. Can we not try and help him, instead of getting sidetracked?

Yeah, seriously. Unfortunately, any thread in General with the word 'gay' in the title usually ends up as a 'Homosexuality: Right or Wrong?" argument.

Yeah, seriously. Unfortunately, any thread in General with the word 'gay' in the title usually ends up as a 'Homosexuality: Right or Wrong?" argument.

Okay, yes, true, this thread has gone way off subject.

However, with that said, is it just me or were Sierra and Atlantian Islands fighting about who was the bigger manwhore a few pages back?

Jesus H Christ just be the bigger woman and drop it … I know its hard but it is YOU that requested to be left alone … do the same favor to him/her (sorry NAK cant remember)

No, I'm not going to be "the bigger woman" if it means her thinking she won. I am not going to allow her a final "drive-by."

No, I'm not going to be "the bigger woman" if it means her thinking she won. I am not going to allow her a final "drive-by."
Fair enough maybe NAK will … that way rather then just her/him thinking they won I and I am sure others will as well

Okay, yes, true, this thread has gone way off subject.

However, with that said, is it just me or were Sierra and Atlantian Islands fighting about who was the bigger manwhore a few pages back?

Who knows? At least Sierra is coherent, though.

UpwardThrust, it's "Her".

No, I'm not going to be "the bigger woman" if it means her thinking she won. I am not going to allow her a final "drive-by."

Funny…that’s how a lot of wars get started.

I think I misrepresented myself lol ... I want to note that I have no urges and no kids right now ... just wary of having any later in life

I did assume you had kids, but I wasn't suggesting you had any issues with that. I think as people who have survived such things we are more sensitive to it. This not only means that if you're determined to avoid it you likely will, but it also means what others would regard as normal thoughts or simply disregard as a passing weird impulse, might freak out a survivor. Sometimes talking about it helps, even if you would never act on it, thus the offer. That's all I was saying.

I did assume you had kids, but I wasn't suggesting you had any issues with that. I think as people who have survived such things we are more sensitive to it. This not only means that if you're determined to avoid it you likely will, but it also means what others would regard as normal thoughts or simply disregard as a passing weird impulse, might freak out a survivor. Sometimes talking about it helps, even if you would never act on it, thus the offer. That's all I was saying.
Yeah I have been noticing I tend to freak out and over analyze … Its kind of like when you are out in the dark and think you heard something … you talk yourself into believing it might actually be there when it really isn’t

It is not the STATE of being a homosexual that God is against. God loves all of his creations unconditionally and indiscriminately.

It is the ACT of having homosexual relations that is considered a sin, because it takes God's gift of sexuality, created solely for reproduction, and twists it for the benefit of human lust.

UpwardThrust, it's "Her".
Thanks thats what I thought but I hate assuming

It is not the STATE of being a homosexual that God is against. God loves all of his creations unconditionally and indiscriminately.

It is the ACT of having homosexual relations that is considered a sin, because it takes God's gift of sexuality, created solely for reproduction, and twists it for the benefit of human lust.
"Be gay all you want, just don't act on it"

?

It is not the STATE of being a homosexual that God is against. God loves all of his creations unconditionally and indiscriminately.

It is the ACT of having homosexual relations that is considered a sin, because it takes God's gift of sexuality, created solely for reproduction, and twists it for the benefit of human lust.
Ahhh then you are of the opinion old people shouldn’t have sex

It is not the STATE of being a homosexual that God is against. God loves all of his creations unconditionally and indiscriminately.

It is the ACT of having homosexual relations that is considered a sin, because it takes God's gift of sexuality, created solely for reproduction, and twists it for the benefit of human lust.

Then you had better not masturbate, or God will strike you dead.

In the meantime, I'm going to continue to enjoy myself. I think God has bigger sins to worry about.

Fair enough maybe NAK will … that way rather then just her/him thinking they won I and I am sure others will as well

Don't care what you or anyone else thinks. I care what I think. And what I think is that if she gets the last drive-by attack, then she won. And I'm not allowing that.

[QUOTE=Verufvia]Im 16 and really want to come out but am afraid that my parents might just think its a phase and totally ignore it or might disown me.
QUOTE]
I have a quick question for you. When I was 16, I did not discuss if I was sexually active with my parents, so I'm curious about your case. Are you active? Why would you talk to them about it? If you aren't active, then I don't think you can technically be homosexual, not having sex and all. You might have feelings and tendencies, but the label homosexual or heterosexual is just a label depicting what type of sex you choose to have. If you aren't having sex, you aren't sexual. If you are having sex at 16, I'd like to suggest you try abstaining until marriage, it is so much better then.

It is not the STATE of being a homosexual that God is against. God loves all of his creations unconditionally and indiscriminately.

It is the ACT of having homosexual relations that is considered a sin, because it takes God's gift of sexuality, created solely for reproduction, and twists it for the benefit of human lust.

Yeaaaaahh, because heteros ONLY have sex for reproduction. It's just them there dirty gays that do it!

Pfft, and again I say, pfft.

Then you had better not masturbate, or God will strike you dead.

In the meantime, I'm going to continue to enjoy myself. I think God has bigger sins to worry about.

First of all, the only people that God has ever reached in and "struck dead" because of their sins are Lot's wife and Moses, some 5,000 years ago.

And secondly, yes, masturbation is also considered a moral disorder, but only amongst those that are seriously able to curb it. Although it hasn't quite been made clear, I believe that adolescents are absolved from it. Better check my bible.

Ahhh then you are of the opinion old people shouldn’t have sex

Eww...Don't wanna go there. Actually, I'm of the opinion that people should be allowed to do whatever they want. I'm simply clarifying what GOD stated about homosexuality in one of the books of the Torah (Deuteronomy, if I'm not mistaken).

It is not the STATE of being a homosexual that God is against. God loves all of his creations unconditionally and indiscriminately.

It is the ACT of having homosexual relations that is considered a sin, because it takes God's gift of sexuality, created solely for reproduction, and twists it for the benefit of human lust.
what denomination are you?
just wondering.

Don't care what you or anyone else thinks. I care what I think. And what I think is that if she gets the last drive-by attack, then she won. And I'm not allowing that.

Lyric, I like you, but seriously, sister, you need to chill out a bit. I believe Nadkor voluntarily gave you 'victory' a few posts back. Just accept that and be happy, 'kay?

Yeaaaaahh, because heteros ONLY have sex for reproduction. It's just them there dirty gays that do it!

Pfft, and again I say, pfft.

I never said that, I was simply adapting the quote to a certain context to fit in with the topic.

what denomination are you?
just wondering.

Roman Catholic, my friend.

Don't care what you or anyone else thinks. I care what I think. And what I think is that if she gets the last drive-by attack, then she won. And I'm not allowing that.
Ehh I really see no reason then that she should respect your wishes to be left alone … you obviously are not willing to do it yourself

I was part of this thread long before Nadkor was! Why the hell should it always be ME who backs off?!!? Nadkor was WAY OFF BASE with her unwelcome comments. Yet, who do you choose to take up saides for?

why am I not surprised?

I was doing just fine on this thread until you people started showing up! Look who was here, offering damned good advice, almost from jump street. sure as hell was your "GLBT Army." It was ME. And others who were not part of your little club. In fact, I was beginning to wonder when you guys would ever show up. You're as welcome here as I am, but you can leave ME the hell alone. And that goes for Nadkor, too.

Lyric, honestly, I've been reading the thread since the beginning and I agree with you. You have been giving excellent advice. I think the problem comes in when you start telling people what they can and cannot say and use that as an excuse to express your distaste for the male gender by stereotyping them and putting them all into this little box that few to no men fit into. I've never sat around with men farting and playing cards nor have I ever witnessed it. Taking an entire group and dismissing them by using stereotypes is unwarranted and is going to be met with hostility, just as attacks on transgenders riles you up. It is easy to avoid such hostility by simply addressing individuals instead of attacking an entire group like men, women, lesbians, gays, transgenders, blacks, whites, etc. Simply avoid stereotyping half of the population and you will find that people will have no reason to mistreat. However, I'll say again, that I have been impressed by much of contribution to this thread and this post is not in any way an attempt to negate the potential you have as a positive influence. If you could keep all of your input to addressing individual needs and individual issues instead of placing people in boxes I think you'd be met with much less hostility.

Roman Catholic, my friend.
okay. makes sense now. thanks. I am too curious sometimes.
;)

Eww...Don't wanna go there. Actually, I'm of the opinion that people should be allowed to do whatever they want. I'm simply clarifying what GOD stated about homosexuality in one of the books of the Torah (Deuteronomy, if I'm not mistaken).
You said sex only for reproduction ... after a certian age people can no longer reproduce is it a sin for them to have sex?

okay. makes sense now. thanks. I am too curious sometimes.
;)
Yeah … never did understand those RC’s even when I used to be one

You said sex only for reproduction ... after a certian age people can no longer reproduce is it a sin for them to have sex?

Not too sure...I'll look it up, just give me a moment...

Roman Catholic, my friend.

Ahhhh, okay then. That explains your opinions. No worries, then. :)

Yeah … never did understand those RC’s even when I used to be one
oh I understand fine. I just get taken aback sometimes until I connect the dots.

I am really glad that I don't believe that sex is only for reproduction though because my hubby and I only wanted 2 kids and as of 2 1/2 years ago we have 2 kids. man would I be cranky right about now...... :p

but the label homosexual or heterosexual is just a label depicting what type of sex you choose to have.
No, it's not.

A man who is solely attracted to women but has sex with a man is not homosexual. Just in the same way that a man who is solely attracted to men but has sex with a woman is not heterosexual. Sexuality is about attraction, whether you act on it or not.

Great...and in the mind of the MAJORITY that makes you a freak.

Actually, I think you'll find that you're in the minority. I like most of the heterosexual population could care less how people interact personally. It doesn't affect me so I have no reason for venom or bile towards it. So let's extrapolate, if there is no reason to be violently bitter towards something that doesn't affect you, one must postulate that perhaps it does affect you. Perhaps it's not others you are angry at but yourself because of your urges. I recommend you explore yourself and find out who you really are. I recommend that you head the advice of Jesus and do not judge and treat others and you would treated. Learn the lessons of love the Jesus preached and if the things you have to say are not loving then perhaps you should just not say them.

You said sex only for reproduction ... after a certian age people can no longer reproduce is it a sin for them to have sex?

OK, found a quote...This applies if you consider menopause an "infertile period":

Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, "every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" is intrinsically evil.

oh I understand fine. I just get taken aback sometimes until I connect the dots.

I am really glad that I don't believe that sex is only for reproduction though because my hubby and I only wanted 2 kids and as of 2 1/2 years ago we have 2 kids. man would I be cranky right about now...... :p
Yeah I just don’t understand how they can find something comforting about the oppressive depressed outlook I feel from whenever I go to a mass

I just don’t get it

oh I understand fine. I just get taken aback sometimes until I connect the dots.

I am really glad that I don't believe that sex is only for reproduction though because my hubby and I only wanted 2 kids and as of 2 1/2 years ago we have 2 kids. man would I be cranky right about now...... :p

ZOMG Smunkeeville! THINK OF THE CHILDREN! Now the species will go extinct and it will be ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!!11!!eleven!!!camel

Obligatory winking-smiley: ;)

OK, found a quote...This applies if you consider menopause an "infertile period":

Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, "every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" is intrinsically evil.
And what is this "objective criteria of morality"

ZOMG Smunkeeville! THINK OF THE CHILDREN! Now the species will go extinct and it will be ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!!11!!eleven!!!camel

Obligatory winking-smiley: ;)
yeah I am not worried about it. My uncle has 17 kids so I think my extended family is pretty set as far as our reproduction responsability. (you know if you average all the kids out)

And what is this "objective criteria of morality"

The objective criteria of morality are, put simply, the outlines of living a life free of mortal sins, and in general avoidance of venial sins.

The objective criteria of morality are, put simply, the outlines of living a life free of mortal sins, and in general avoidance of venial sins.
To be an objective morality they have to be provable objectively and empirically … something religion has yet to do, as of now it is still subjective morality

No, it's not.

A man who is solely attracted to women but has sex with a man is not homosexual. Just in the same way that a man who is solely attracted to men but has sex with a woman is not heterosexual. Sexuality is about attraction, whether you act on it or not.

Yes thats true. Its an emotion. And some people simply cannot control their emotions. Now the problem with this is..many people do not/cannot understand this. The main opposition to homosexuality is religious sects so to people who are atheistic or agnostic for the most part have little to no problem with it. Its all boils down to what you personally believe. So whatever you feel is worth believing in..go with it. O and..on a slightly different note. For the people who are under the assumption that AIDS started with gays im sorry to say that is incorrect. It started in Africa..and..though most people refuse to acknowledge this..the epidemic began just after a group of doctors, funded by the red cross I believe, administered TB shots to the men, women and children over there. The carelessness of the doctors reusing needles and such is what began it. Not homosexuals.

To be an objective morality they have to be provable objectively and empirically … something religion has yet to do, as of now it is still subjective morality

Well, of course it's literally subjective. I can't pull morality from my pocket, place it on a table, and run tests on it, can I?

But we Catholics refer to it as objective, because the rules for it have been put forth by God. Now I'm not going to start a stupid "My religion can beat up your religion (or lack thereof)" spiel, but there you go.

yeah I am not worried about it. My uncle has 17 kids so I think my extended family is pretty set as far as our reproduction responsability. (you know if you average all the kids out)

Yowzer! 17! That's quite a family. 17 children would drive me insane. Your uncle is a brave man.

Then you had better not masturbate, or God will strike you dead.

In the meantime, I'm going to continue to enjoy myself. I think God has bigger sins to worry about.

Yes, like hate and intolerance.

Well, of course it's literally subjective. I can't pull morality from my pocket, place it on a table, and run tests on it, can I?

But we Catholics refer to it as objective, because the rules for it have been put forth by God. Now I'm not going to start a stupid "My religion can beat up your religion (or lack thereof)" spiel, but there you go.
You can call it whatever you want … does not make it true (or accurate)

Yowzer! 17! That's quite a family. 17 children would drive me insane. Your uncle is a brave man.
yeah I learned from him many things including

1 figure out how many kids you want/can afford
2 stick to that number
3 birth control is a good idea.

You can call it whatever you want … does not make it true (or accurate)

Which is what I'm saying. OF COURSE not everyone is going to agree and follow the rules set forth to the letter, because not everyone is a believer. I began responding to this thread simply because there were people claiming that the state of homosexuality was a sin in itself, when that isn't true.

Damn it,, I was gone for one day and I missed the crazy religious people!!!

I was sooooooooooo ready for that atlantis guy, a jew can hardly say that God hates us, i was gonna bring up the holocaust, where peopel kileld jews because they did not believe in the right God, and thus the real God hated them, then I was gonna bring up homosexuality in animals, and since they don;t have a "soul and thus no choice" God must have created it as a natural thing. DAMN I missed them... Why oh why did I not check this thread yesterday... :( :( :( ...

Anyway, could we please end this little spat, it is not really going anywhere, and it is just spamming the place up, I swear there must have been like 4 pages of it.

Finally to bring this thread back on topic...

You should wait untill you are ready emotionally and financially to deal with any possible consequences of comming out to your parents.

NOW STOP FIGHTING!!! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

I am really glad that I don't believe that sex is only for reproduction though because my hubby and I only wanted 2 kids and as of 2 1/2 years ago we have 2 kids. man would I be cranky right about now...... :p

We sure had fun last night, too. Didn't we, Smunkee?

have you ever tried not being gay?
get a playboy and do stuff to youself intil you get an erection, then jerk it.
soon, your mind will convert into heterosexuality.
(please note: this is untested but it sounds good on paper.)

have you ever tried not being gay?
get a playboy and do stuff to youself intil you get an erection, then jerk it.
soon, your mind will convert into heterosexuality.
(please note: this is untested but it sounds good on paper.)
Sorry but it sounds horrible on paper

How aroused would you get looking at gay porn?

Sorry but it sounds horrible on paper

How aroused would you get looking at gay porn?

It depends on how good it is.

have you ever tried not being gay?
get a playboy and do stuff to youself intil you get an erection, then jerk it.
soon, your mind will convert into heterosexuality.
(please note: this is untested but it sounds good on paper.)
Have you ever tried not being straight?

Get a rentboy and do stuff to youself until you get an erection, then jerk it.

Soon, your mind will convert into homosexuality.






Still sound good on paper?

It depends on how good it is.
You and me are a different story my friend lol

OK, found a quote...This applies if you consider menopause an "infertile period":

Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, "every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" is intrinsically evil.

Conjugal refers to any interaction between spouses. One, since gays and lesbians can't be married, no problem there with your objective definition of sin. Apparently, only heterosexuals can sin in that way and do it all the time. See, if I have lunch with my wife, that's a conjugal act where procreation is impossible. So if any act that cannot result in pregnancy between spouses is evil then I'm gonna have to go with all of us heterosexuals are in BIG trouble.

Conjugal refers to any interaction between spouses. One, since gays and lesbians can't be married, no problem there with your objective definition of sin. Apparently, only heterosexuals can sin in that way and do it all the time. See, if I have lunch with my wife, that's a conjugal act where procreation is impossible. So if any act that cannot result in pregnancy between spouses is evil then I'm gonna have to go with all of us heterosexuals are in BIG trouble.
Lol I did not even catch that lol

You and me are a different story my friend lol
I actually think we're not a different story.

I believe that most people are rather flexible, across the span of their lifetime. There are few heterosexual men (IMHO) who have not had at least one homosexual fantasy - and many who have acted on them at least once.

Conjugal refers to any interaction between spouses. One, since gays and lesbians can't be married, no problem there with your objective definition of sin. Apparently, only heterosexuals can sin in that way and do it all the time. See, if I have lunch with my wife, that's a conjugal act where procreation is impossible. So if any act that cannot result in pregnancy between spouses is evil then I'm gonna have to go with all of us heterosexuals are in BIG trouble.

Wow. It's amazing what a little context twisting can do to make you look correct.

Conjugal does, in fact, mean interaction between spouses when given the literal english language definition. And yes, conjugal cannot refer to gays, because gays cannot procreate or even be married. But keep in mind that it says "...in anticipation of THE conjugal act". THE conjugal act is sex.

EDIT: Not to mention the fact that I was referring to Upward Thrust's question regarding elderly married heterosexuals engaging in sexual relations, NOT gays.

Wow. It's amazing what a little context twisting can do to make you look correct.

Conjugal does, in fact, mean interaction between spouses when given the literal english language definition. And yes, conjugal cannot refer to gays, because gays cannot procreate or even be married. But keep in mind that it says "...in anticipation of THE conjugal act". THE conjugal act is sex.

The conjugal act is sex or vaginal sex? The THE is a little abiguous. I'm guessing it's vaginal sex between married heterosexuals. I'm pretty sure if you said to most people that to people engaged in THE conjugal act upon marriage that it would be assumed that it meant vaginal sex. So I guess, gays are okay there, too. Along with anal sex, oral sex, masturbation or anything else that is not heterosexual vaginal intercourse. Man, some days it's so frustrating to wake up and be heterosexual.

See how actually READING the context kind of makes your quote not apply at all in this thread.

Wow. It's amazing what a little context twisting can do to make you look correct.

Conjugal does, in fact, mean interaction between spouses when given the literal english language definition. And yes, conjugal cannot refer to gays, because gays cannot procreate or even be married. But keep in mind that it says "...in anticipation of THE conjugal act". THE conjugal act is sex.

Not to mention the fact that I was referring to Upward Thrust's question regarding elderly heterosexuals engaging in sexual relationships, NOT gays.

So wait you were arguing that because they can no longer procreate that having sex is evil? Wow. Man, I sure am happy that I worship Jesus and not the Pope.

So wait you were arguing that because they can no longer procreate that having sex is evil? Wow. Man, I sure am happy that I worship Jesus and not the Pope.

I have a hard time with taking sexual instruction from men who have officially proclaimed their celibacy.

The conjugal act is sex or vaginal sex? The THE is a little abiguous. I'm guessing it's vaginal sex between married heterosexuals. I'm pretty sure if you said to most people that to people engaged in THE conjugal act upon marriage that it would be assumed that it meant vaginal sex. So I guess, gays are okay there, too. Along with anal sex, oral sex, masturbation or anything else that is not heterosexual vaginal intercourse. Man, some days it's so frustrating to wake up and be heterosexual.

See how actually READING the context kind of makes your quote not apply at all in this thread.

OK, my last post on this for the day:

As it may well be known, unless you have some horrible freak accident, masturbation, anal sex, and oral sex won't get you pregnant. However, willfully deciding to engage in these pursuits, even in marriage, is referred to in the quote as "impeding the process of procreation in the conjugal act".

So in short, yes, vaginal sex is the only THE conjugal act. It takes a lot of restraint to withhold myself from wishing to try other things with my wife, but we've made solemn oaths to each other. And we uphold those oaths, as we have for nearly eight years now.

OK, my last post on this for the day:

As it may well be known, unless you have some horrible freak accident, masturbation, anal sex, and oral sex won't get you pregnant. However, willfully deciding to engage in these pursuits, even in marriage, is referred to in the quote as "impeding the process of procreation in the conjugal act".

So in short, yes, vaginal sex is the only THE conjugal act. It takes a lot of restraint to withhold myself from wishing to try other things with my wife, but we've made solemn oaths to each other. And we uphold those oaths, as we have for nearly eight years now.

Oh, so if I'm horny, and have a hardon, and my wife says, "Not tonight, I have a headache," she's impeding the process of procreation in the conjugal act, and is going to Hell?

Song and Dance

Bird's-do-it, Dog's-do-it, e-ven lit-tle mon-keys do it, Gay love, that's what it's all about

...I tried to parody that one song... but I oculd not remember how it went... or what it was called... but I think I got the point across...

You know... that animals do it... so ... it's natural... you know.... yeah... I'm done now... im going to class.... bye..... enjoy yourself...

OK, my last post on this for the day:

As it may well be known, unless you have some horrible freak accident, masturbation, anal sex, and oral sex won't get you pregnant. However, willfully deciding to engage in these pursuits, even in marriage, is referred to in the quote as "impeding the process of procreation in the conjugal act".

How? How much sex you have doesn't prevent you from getting someone pregnant. If my wife and I have sex four times a day and two of them are in the caboose she is not any less likely to get pregnant. And if she is not ovulating no amount of vaginal sex will get pregnant so I guess whenever a woman is not ovulating anything goes, right?

Quick biology lesson, if a woman is ovulating and you are a healthy man it doesn't take much sex to get her pregnant. If she is not ovulating, you can have sex till you both die of dehydration and she's not getting pregnant. Wanna try again?

So in short, yes, vaginal sex is the only THE conjugal act. It takes a lot of restraint to withhold myself from wishing to try other things with my wife, but we've made solemn oaths to each other. And we uphold those oaths, as we have for nearly eight years now.

So your quote says nothing about what other acts are allowed and when they are allowed. Basically, you've only made an argument for birth control of any type (assuming one actually agrees with your argument). You've not addressed the point at all.

Sick. You men are all sick. Two girls going at each other, and you think it's Miller Time...but let two guys go at each other and you, at best want to barf...and a worst, want to pound the shit outta the two guys!

What the hell? I would think that straight men would think gay men were the greatest thing since sliced bread...shit, there's two guys who just took themselves out of the competition for women!!

Do you guys actually somehow think thaty two girls going after each other are gonna have any interest in YOU...and indulge your sick two girls on one guy sort of fantasies? Jesus Christ, why are men such PIGS?!?!?

Makes me embarrassed to have ever been one...even if, only in body, and never in mind, heart or spirit. Because I never was a guy in heart mind or spirit. Only in the body. And I had that little birth defect taken care of, thank you very much.

Why should I try? every man that was ever important to me in my life abused me and treated me like shit! Every man I ever counted on let me down, beat me up, sexually molested me, or verbally abused me!

There is only one exception to this. And the man in question happens to be a heterosexual crossdresser. And I consider him to be my brother, because he was more a brother to me than my own flesh and blood brother ever was.

My father was a mean, rotten, drunken alcoholic son of a bitch who beat the shit out of me, until I got big enough (at 16) to deck him. He constantly abused me and my mom, verbally, physically, mentally and emotionally. He was a domineering asshole. Life was HELL with him. I tried SO HARD to get my mom to divorce him when I was a kid, but never could quite manage it.

Finally, at 16, I did something (probably minor, I don't even remember) but it was enough to trigger another one of my dad's abuse sprees...and he came after me. I punched him three times in the kidneys and he went down. He stayed down. I told him then..."you know what I could do to you if I wanted to, don't you? The thing is, I don't want to. Because I want to be as unlike you as I possibly can be. But, I swear to God, if you ever lay another fucking finger on mother, or me, I'm gonna climb all over you like stink on shit, and I ain't gonna stop until you are REAL still! Get the picture?"

Then I left him on the floor, to sleep it off. He never did touch us again, but the verbal, mental, and emotional abuse continued, and even increased.

Meanwhile, my brother had been sexually abusing me for the last five years.

Is it any fucking WONDER I have a shitty attitude towards men? Look what they have done to me my whole life!

I'm convinced that part of the reason I am a trans, is because I wanted to be as unlike the men I observed in my life, as I could possibly be! I DO think that my growing-up environment played a role in my being trans. I knew, sure as hell, I didn't want to be a man, if that was what men were like. And, since every man I ever knew, depended upon, or counted on...always, at best let me down, and, at worst, abused the fuck out of me, and everyone else...well, I knew I wanted no part of being a man.

Men can keep that shit among themselves, and not post it on a public forum where women are gonna be. Keep that kinda talk to your male buddies, when you are all around the poker table, swilling beer, making crude jokes, belching and farting, okay?

But I would sure appreciate the crude, disgusting comments to stop. I'm sick and tired of men going off about how "hot" two lesbians going at each other is. I think it is debasing to women to make such comments...especially in the presence of women. Keep that sort of stuff among yourselves, at your beer-swilling card games where y'all tell crude jokes and belch and fart

At the beginning of this thread, I actually admired and respected you: firstly for being so frank about your own life and secondly for issuing generally sound advice to the young man who started the thread.

However, when I reached your above posts, I could not quite believe it was the same person who, just earlier, had been preaching tolerance. Are your opinions on men any better than the opinions held by certain Christians on transsexuals? No, they are full of the same hypocrisy, preaching tolerance for one group while at the same actively condemning another. In reality you have shown yourself to be little better than the woman you mentioned earlier, the one who tmade such a fuss over you using the women's toilet. Both of you have reacted to differences in thinking and appearance in the same bigoted manner. In fact, you are WORSE than that woman because you (having been subjected to discrimination) should know better.

I am sorry that you have had a bad experience of men in your past life, I really am, but you cannot go on using your past as an excuse for making stereotypical generalisations.

Deleanorea , i herewith award you 15 respect points of mine. i wholeheartedly disagree with your opinions, but i am very impressed by the way you express(ed) them and did not assimilate with the tone of this thread.

oh, and, btw, is the OP stilll with us?

First of all, the only people that God has ever reached in and "struck dead" because of their sins are Lot's wife and Moses, some 5,000 years ago.

And secondly, yes, masturbation is also considered a moral disorder, but only amongst those that are seriously able to curb it. Although it hasn't quite been made clear, I believe that adolescents are absolved from it. Better check my bible.
Hmmm...seems I remember hearing something about occasional masturbation in males being of some benefit to prostate health. Not sure where I heard this. again, sex in all forms pretty much grosses me out, but for some reason, this particular thing stuck in my mind. And, no, it was not Joycelyn Elders, either.

Lyric, honestly, I've been reading the thread since the beginning and I agree with you. You have been giving excellent advice. I think the problem comes in when you start telling people what they can and cannot say and use that as an excuse to express your distaste for the male gender by stereotyping them and putting them all into this little box that few to no men fit into. I've never sat around with men farting and playing cards nor have I ever witnessed it. Taking an entire group and dismissing them by using stereotypes is unwarranted and is going to be met with hostility, just as attacks on transgenders riles you up. It is easy to avoid such hostility by simply addressing individuals instead of attacking an entire group like men, women, lesbians, gays, transgenders, blacks, whites, etc. Simply avoid stereotyping half of the population and you will find that people will have no reason to mistreat. However, I'll say again, that I have been impressed by much of contribution to this thread and this post is not in any way an attempt to negate the potential you have as a positive influence. If you could keep all of your input to addressing individual needs and individual issues instead of placing people in boxes I think you'd be met with much less hostility.


Well, you know...I do appreciate the fact that you have said I have contributed much of value. However, again, we kinda go back to the thing we were talking about in a different forum. Many who have never been placed in a box have no idea what it feels like. Thus, I place them in boxes, and they react violently. I show them it doesn't feel good to get placed in a box. Hopefully, they will thus learn not to place others, like me, in a box.

Granted, this may not be the nicest way to go about what I am trying to accomplish, but there ARE times where you just have to be offensive to offensive people.

Here, we origianlly had a closeted gay guy asking for advice on coming out. Now, while I realize we may have considerably drifted off topic....certainly this is NOT the type of topic where a comment about "two girls going at each other is really hot" is at all appropriate, or sensitive. And so I let the guy who said it have it.

If you and other men take offense, then you might do well to examine some of your own behaviors and attitudes, and see if you do the very things that some are finding offensive.

again, what I am doing may not make me popular with some people. So be it, I'm not in a popularity contest. I'm trying to make a point. And the fact that my point angers some people tells me that my point is being driven home. Because it's just a little too close to the truth for some people's comfort. Yeah, well. They made the offensive comment first, and I made one in return.

My apologies to those who were not the actual target who might have gotten offended. No apology is intended for the original target.

have you ever tried not being gay?
get a playboy and do stuff to youself intil you get an erection, then jerk it.
soon, your mind will convert into heterosexuality.
(please note: this is untested but it sounds good on paper.)

Why must you uneducated people think that it is such an easy thing? Just because YOU don't understand homosexuality, that is no reason to dismiss it out of hand, or to suggest it would be so easy to overcome! Let me ask you how easy it would be for you to get hold of a Playgirl, and do stuff to yourself, and get an erection, while looking at things that do not turn you on?

hey LongHorn:

have you ever tried not being striaght?
get a playgirl and do stuff to youself intil you get an erection, then jerk it.
soon, your mind will convert into homosexuality.
(please note: this is untested but it sounds good on paper.)

Lyric, you need to lighten up.

Oh, so if I'm horny, and have a hardon, and my wife says, "Not tonight, I have a headache," she's impeding the process of procreation in the conjugal act, and is going to Hell?

LOL, don't you WISH you could use that one on your wife!! :D

Why must you uneducated people think that it is such an easy thing? Just because YOU don't understand homosexuality, that is no reason to dismiss it out of hand, or to suggest it would be so easy to overcome! Let me ask you how easy it would be for you to get hold of a Playgirl, and do stuff to yourself, and get an erection, while looking at things that do not turn you on?

OMG he's foudn the 'cure' no psychiatrist nor psychologist has to date. Yeah, look at pr0n and yank it. How ummm...idiotic.

Lyric, are you attracted to men? Are you straight? I found it interesting that you said part of the reason you want to be a tran is because you think men are so replusive.

Lyric, you need to lighten up.

Maybe I could if the whole world would quit treating me like shit.

I also agree with Lyric that is not appropriate to make comments about lesbians are so hot on this thread. I think it shows a lack of respect when you make light of other people’s misery. In this case, we are talking about a gay kid who is have a tough time coming out to his family, not about lesbians making you horny.

LOL, don't you WISH you could use that one on your wife!! :D

Fortunately for me, my wife is always WAY hornier than I am.

Lyric, I'm going to make a joke here, and I don't want you to get offended.

A man is driving through town, when Lyric, clutching a pistol in one hand steps into the middle of the road. As the driver slams on the brakes, he notices that what appears to be a woman is extremely attractive. When the car stops, Lyric opens the door and drags the man out onto the road with incredible strength. "I want you to masturbate!" Lyric screams. "Do it now, or I'll blow your brains out!" Terrified, the man drops his pants and starts to masturbate. Catching a glimpse of the beautiful young woman, he finishes very quickly. "Do it again!" Lyric snarls. This scenario is repeated several times. The hapless driver rubs himself raw, and gets cramps in both arms. He collapses to the ground in a sweaty heap. "I can't do it again. You'll have to kill me!" the man whimpers. Lyric looks down at him and says "All right, now can you give me a lift downtown?"

Lyric, are you attracted to men? Are you straight? I found it interesting that you said part of the reason you want to be a tran is because you think men are so replusive.

Just one more area of ignorance that exists in most people about trans people. I am sexually attracted to neither gender. I'm asexual. My sexual orientation has absolutely NOTHING to do with my gender identity. They are two completely separate things.

I know of other asexual TS's like me...as well as MTF's who still like women, and thus, wind up de-facto lesbians after surgery...as well as FTM's who like women...and FTM's who like men, and wind up de-facto gay men after surgery...and all points in between, including even bisexual trans people.

If I were to have a life partner, I would want it to be a man, because that is what seems natural and right to me, being as I am a woman...but I would want NO SEX of any kind with that man...or any other man. I'd only be happy with a man as asexual as I am.

Does that kinda answer your question? I know, it isn't easy for most people to understand someone who is truly asexual...I mean, how could ANYONE no like sex?? How could anyone be sickened and repulsed by sex? so goes the thinking of most people who enjoy sex. But, for those of us who do not enjoy sex...for whatever reason...it makes perfect sense to want all the other aspects of a relationship, but NO SEX.

I suspect, in my case, the 5-year-long molestation of e, by my brother...has a lot to do with my repulsion to sex...or even the thought of it. I suspect it has a lot to do with the fact that I find sex disgusting. You might feel that way, too, if you'd had sex forced on you when you didn't want it...by someone you didn't want it from....over a period of years. You, too, may well become repulsed by sex.

I also agree with Lyric that is not appropriate to make comments about lesbians are so hot on this thread. I think it shows a lack of respect when you make light of other people’s misery. In this case, we are talking about a gay kid who is have a tough time coming out to his family, not about lesbians making you horny.

thank you. And that was why I made the comment about pigs. I meant to be offensive to offensive people...because sometimes, that is the only thing they understand!!

Fortunately for me, my wife is always WAY hornier than I am.

Lyric, I'm going to make a joke here, and I don't want you to get offended.

A man is driving through town, when Lyric, clutching a pistol in one hand steps into the middle of the road. As the driver slams on the brakes, he notices that what appears to be a woman is extremely attractive. When the car stops, Lyric opens the door and drags the man out onto the road with incredible strength. "I want you to masturbate!" Lyric screams. "Do it now, or I'll blow your brains out!" Terrified, the man drops his pants and starts to masturbate. Catching a glimpse of the beautiful young woman, he finishes very quickly. "Do it again!" Lyric snarls. This scenario is repeated several times. The hapless driver rubs himself raw, and gets cramps in both arms. He collapses to the ground in a sweaty heap. "I can't do it again. You'll have to kill me!" the man whimpers. Lyric looks down at him and says "All right, now can you give me a lift downtown?"


And what is the punch line? You point is what? I, quite frankly, fail to see the humor.

And what is the punch line? You point is what? I, quite frankly, fail to see the humor.
Well, the idea is that you would never ride with a man who was able to do anything sexual.

Just one more area of ignorance that exists in most people about trans people. I am sexually attracted to neither gender. I'm asexual. My sexual orientation has absolutely NOTHING to do with my gender identity. They are two completely separate things.

I know of other asexual TS's like me...as well as MTF's who still like women, and thus, wind up de-facto lesbians after surgery...as well as FTM's who like women...and FTM's who like men, and wind up de-facto gay men after surgery...and all points in between, including even bisexual trans people.

If I were to have a life partner, I would want it to be a man, because that is what seems natural and right to me, being as I am a woman...but I would want NO SEX of any kind with that man...or any other man. I'd only be happy with a man as asexual as I am.

Does that kinda answer your question? I know, it isn't easy for most people to understand someone who is truly asexual...I mean, how could ANYONE no like sex?? How could anyone be sickened and repulsed by sex? so goes the thinking of most people who enjoy sex. But, for those of us who do not enjoy sex...for whatever reason...it makes perfect sense to want all the other aspects of a relationship, but NO SEX.

I suspect, in my case, the 5-year-long molestation of e, by my brother...has a lot to do with my repulsion to sex...or even the thought of it. I suspect it has a lot to do with the fact that I find sex disgusting. You might feel that way, too, if you'd had sex forced on you when you didn't want it...by someone you didn't want it from....over a period of years. You, too, may well become repulsed by sex.


Oh Hon, please don’t jump to conclusion. I am simply asking if you are attracted to men or not. To me, my sexual identity is linked with my gender identity. I definitely am attracted to men only and I like sex. YAY lol.
I have no problem with asexual, I think its totally cool. I was just curious if you are sexually attracted to men since you have so much negative experiences with men.

Why would it effect you if your parents thought it was just a phase?

personally i think homosexualtiy is wrong and sick...but thats my opinion, and thinking about it im not sure it helps the guy who started this thread!

personally i think homosexualtiy is wrong and sick...but thats my opinion, and thinking about it im not sure it helps the guy who started this thread!

It really doesn't. :rolleyes:

I just find it quite amazing how such a minority can be so outspoken and obvious.....like the muslims in the UK! :mp5:

... and thinking about it im not sure it helps the guy who started this thread!

surely not.
it is neither on-topic nor helpful, so..thanks but no thanks.

@Asylumiasa: i don't think that jis parents thinking it is a phase is what troubles him but his parents thinking it is something worth kciking him out, or even worse.

a life time of repression and discrimination can make someone VERY OUTSPOKEN AND OBVIOUS. :)

And i think its fucking great, I am sick of fear. I rather die than let the bigots puts me in my place.

lol i say i must agree with that......

back on topic, I have grown up in a christian family etc....so if my kids came out of the closet, i ohonestly dont no what id do...because the temptation would be to disown them, and the only thing that would stop me would be the fact that they were my kids...

ive seen a family i no have a kid that admited to being gay...and they didnt disown him, he left of his own accord because he wasnt comfortable with the family after he admitted to it...

you just gotta think..how are your parents gonna react?

[QUOTE=And i think its fucking great, I am sick of fear. I rather die than let the bigots puts me in my place.[/QUOTE]
verging on extremist!! ;)

verging on extremist!! ;)

You by any chance in construction? Because thats one mighty fine hole your digging.

no im not...im just a natural....well im off before i get lynched...(and i did actually give one useful addition to the conversation but i dont think anyone noticed!!)

and sorry for killing the conversation

I just find it quite amazing how such a minority can be so outspoken and obvious.....like the muslims in the UK! :mp5:

well, with GLBTfolks making up 10% of the population, they really oughta just shut up and crawl into their minority corner. you're right. :rolleyes:

I'm not gay, but I have some advice for you.

Regardless of your age, when you deny an essential part of yourself long enough, you begin to die inside. It's not necessary to "announce" that you're gay, but don't attempt to hide it either. If your family truly loves you, they'll eventually come to accept you for who and what you are, as opposed to what they would like you to be. It will be hard, no denying that, but in the long run ( if you truly are gay ), you'll be much happier with yourself than you would otherwise.

Just a few words of advice from an "outsider" who knows some people who've been through the same thing. Good luck, and let me know what you decide. :)

I have always disagreed with the idea that if you dont "come out" your denying who you are. Proclimation of your sexual preference is hardly denial of who you are. You MAKE who you are... you decide who you want to be, and if you dont like what you see.. there is nothing stoping you from changing it. Sexual preference is far from one of the most essential parts of any person. It has no bearing on what type of person you are, your ethics, your intelegence, your health.... but nothing more then a preference (like tea or coffee). There are so many other things for you to deal with, do not put something so unimportant as this at the forefront. You will have a life time to decerine what sexual preference you will ulimatly have.

Well, you know...I do appreciate the fact that you have said I have contributed much of value. However, again, we kinda go back to the thing we were talking about in a different forum. Many who have never been placed in a box have no idea what it feels like. Thus, I place them in boxes, and they react violently. I show them it doesn't feel good to get placed in a box. Hopefully, they will thus learn not to place others, like me, in a box.

Granted, this may not be the nicest way to go about what I am trying to accomplish, but there ARE times where you just have to be offensive to offensive people.

But you are making the assumption that none of us have ever been put in that box before. You are not just being offensive to offensive people, you are being offensive to everyone in that class of people, including those who would defend you against being placed in a box. I told my friend about your story about the bathroom and I told her I can't imagine what would even cause her to come to the conclusion the you didn't belong. My friend said no one would react to you the way they did unless they were a sick individual. You placed both him and I in the same box with the people who have mistreated you in your life. There is nothing that justifies that.

Here, we origianlly had a closeted gay guy asking for advice on coming out. Now, while I realize we may have considerably drifted off topic....certainly this is NOT the type of topic where a comment about "two girls going at each other is really hot" is at all appropriate, or sensitive. And so I let the guy who said it have it.

So let him have it, but just HIM or even say you hate it when SOME guys act that way, but you didn't. You railed against all men and how sick we all are. I didn't say anything you should have found offensive so why are you lumping me in with him. That's why people got so upset with you. I don't agree that comment warranted the level of offense you took, but it's fine for you to express your contempt for certain actions so long as you don't use them resurrect a stereotype for a group.

If you and other men take offense, then you might do well to examine some of your own behaviors and attitudes, and see if you do the very things that some are finding offensive.

Couldn't someone say the same thing when people make references about TG's? Would you accept that defense? Does it excuse the behavior? NO. It doesn't. Because some are guilty doesn't mean all are and you need to see the difference. When you change alter your complaints from being about the singular actions of an individual to an overall statement about a group you cease to have anything useful to add. That's why you suddenly see a large part of the population of this thread dismissing all that you've contributed. Because you don't do yourself favors when you take one person's actions and attribute it to the group they belong to.

again, what I am doing may not make me popular with some people. So be it, I'm not in a popularity contest. I'm trying to make a point. And the fact that my point angers some people tells me that my point is being driven home. Because it's just a little too close to the truth for some people's comfort. Yeah, well. They made the offensive comment first, and I made one in return.

Again, one could make the same argument about transgenders and it would be equally wrong. You can't make arguments against a whole group to intentionally be offensive. There is actually a name for angering people just to make a point, it's called trolling and it's against the rules of the board. It's also logically invalid and terribly offensive.

They who? All men? When you group people like that where does it end? Now can he put you in the transgendered box and make a comment against all transgenders because he attacked all men? And so on. He offended you and you offended ALL MEN. You can't and haven't justified your point in doing so. You keep calling HIM THEM. There is no THEM, there is just HIM. And you were correct until you attacked the entire group he falls into because you disagreed with his actions.

My apologies to those who were not the actual target who might have gotten offended. No apology is intended for the original target.
I appreciate that you're apologizing. I think it's very big of anyone to apologize. However, the instance of you grouping an individual and then attacking that group isn't, nor is the instance of the thing you were originally offended by. The fact that the instance of offense isn't isolated is unfortunate, but neither you nor I can prevent the actions of others. However, you do have control over the instances of stereotyping and categorizing people that you commit. That offense is completely within your control. Grouping people by majority groupings like men, white, heterosexual is no more justifiable than minority groupings of black, jewish, transgendered, etc. If it's not acceptable to say that black people disgust me or transgenders or jews disgust me then it is not acceptable to say men or white people or straights disgust you. You can't argue that one is a horrible violation and the other is just to make a point.

I have always disagreed with the idea that if you dont "come out" your denying who you are. When the alternative is "passing", it so is.

Proclimation of your sexual preference is hardly denial of who you are. You realize that statement completely denies your own stance, right?

You MAKE who you are... you decide who you want to be, and if you dont like what you see.. there is nothing stoping you from changing it. A nice theory that does not always pan out. Beyond that, what does this have anything to do with being gay? He knows he is, he personally seems fine with himself, so what is your point? That it can be changed? That's bunk if I've ever heard any.

There are so many other things for you to deal with, do not put something so unimportant as this at the forefront. Unimportant? Quit trying to talk this down, a person's sexuality is very much a part of who they are and is extremely important. What do you advocate then, supression? Honestly, it is one of the most forefronting aspects of human emotion and I could not imagine a more important thing to deal with.

You will have a life time to decerine what sexual preference you will ulimatly have. So basically you are trying to talk him down from coming out because you think it is just a choice? :rolleyes:

I agree, you do not have to come out be gay. If I simply was more interested in guys, and was sexually attracted to them, wouldnt that make me gay? In addition do you mean actually taking part in a gay-sexual experience or comming out to your family? Because I am not exactly sure what you mean...

Anywho, wow... has the starter of this thread said anything since the whole spaz out and religious people occupation of this thread?

When the alternative is "passing", it so is.

You realize that statement completely denies your own stance, right?

A nice theory that does not always pan out. Beyond that, what does this have anything to do with being gay? He knows he is, he personally seems fine with himself, so what is your point? That it can be changed? That's bunk if I've ever heard any.

Unimportant? Quit trying to talk this down, a person's sexuality is very much a part of who they are and is extremely important. What do you advocate then, supression? Honestly, it is one of the most forefronting aspects of human emotion and I could not imagine a more important thing to deal with.

So basically you are trying to talk him down from coming out because you think it is just a choice? :rolleyes:

I don't think s/he is advocating that it is a choice. S/he appears to be stating that his parent's don't have to know today which many of us are saying. However, I will agree that your sexuality is a HUGE part of who you particularly when you are going through puberty which is such a confusing time. Imagine in conjunction with that confusing time you get NO support from friends, family and loved ones. That's terrible.

How about you guys start a new thread, "Is homosexuality wrong?" and then you can have your arguements there?

This kid started a thread because he wanted some advice. Can we not try and help him, instead of getting sidetracked?

Not for nothing but this thread is more than likely giving him a little hint at what he faces in the real world . I'm sorry I meant a BIG hint . Its got a little bit of everything just like reality . Only no one is kicking his ass while they scream obscenity at him . The words may hurt but its eye opening to read some of the post in this thread and I've been around the block a few times .
Where else can you get ; " all gays are evil " Bisexual musings , the rants of religion and a transvestite / transexual / asexual being ranting at straight guys for having " sick " lesbian fantasys ?

The poor guys sitting by his monitor eating popcorn saying to himself " shit and I thought I had problems " . ;)

somebody give lyrics a hug . :D

Im 16 and really want to come out but am afraid that my parents might just think its a phase and totally ignore it or might disown me.

Im looking for advice maybe from gays who have come out.

What was your experience like? Were your friends and family supportive?

I'm not gay, but I do have a suggestion you might find acceptable.

(I have to admit I haven't read all the posts, so if someone already recommended this, my apologies for attempting to take credit for your point. Consider it an endorsement of sorts...)

This is difficult to put into words, so if it comes out incoherent and incomprehensible, let me know so I can clarify. It also takes some time, both to integrate it into your normal behavior and for the right prompt to come up.

What you want to do is listen to them, very closely, under the right circumstances. If your parents spend any time together, like eating dinner or watching the news, these are ideal opportunities where you'll be able to enter into a conversation about homosexuality.

In other words, wait for or provide an external prompt for a conversation about it. Then you can talk about it without ever hinting about your own orientation. Hence, "Third Party Body Shield." You may want to establish yourself as talking about other things before putting this one forward.

For example: if you watch the news, eventually you'll get a news story that brings it up (and, if your parents talk to you about stuff from time to time, chances are that you wouldn't need to give them a prompt.) In any case, after you get a story about, for example, another Governor McGreevy (sp?), you can remark out loud something honest, like "Wow. I did not see that coming," and try to start a conversation.

As Dale Carnegie said, people are far more interested in themselves than in other people. Chances are, if you solicit your parents opinion on political and social issues, they'll think you're a good conversation partner and you'll get plus points for that.

At the dinner table... well, I'm not sure how appropriate it would be, but any time when you are together, get into the habit of striking up conversations about the world. Eventually mention some new statistic or some new thing, and get your parents' opinion about it.

The elegance is that now you know what to expect, and you don't have to worry about their reaction unless you decide to come out.

Ironically, this is a variation of something I use when trying to see whether or not a girl I'm attracted to is interested in me.

Verufvia:

I'm a 19-year-old homosexual, and I came out when I was 16. My parents weren't terribly receptive at first, but they were just concerned about my well-being, because there's always the possibility of being harrassed. But they never stopped loving me, and my relationship with them couldn't be better. My brothers accepted it promptly, and so did most of my friends.

I really hope that this works out for you. If you'd like my input on anything else, don't be afraid to telegram me!

Good luck!

Im 16 and really want to come out but am afraid that my parents might just think its a phase and totally ignore it or might disown me.

Im looking for advice maybe from gays who have come out.

What was your experience like? Were your friends and family supportive?


first, let me say that i am not gay
second, just a light little story to tell

during college, my english professor gave us an assignment
we were to choose a highly controversial subject and create a thesis
at the time outing was just an idea being tossed about
***there were no homosexual magazines at all***
a group of well known gay men wanted the world to see
that there were others like them
they also thought it would be good for the individual to
'come to terms' with their sexuality
jiminy crickets i went off on a tangent

i decided to choose 'outing' as my topic
when we had to disclose this info to class...
well, i always wore flannel, army boots, and semi hunting hat
you know, roll out of bed
when i said what my topic was the entire class sighed
they actually stared at me and sighed
the kind of sigh that says, "i knew it, i knew it"

from that point on that was how i was known
the flannel wearing, get out of the closet you bastard student
eek this was a reference to myself
a thousand pardons if it was misinterpreted :(

Alright, everybody play nice. If you don't have an argument to back up your statement, keep your cursor away from the "reply" button.

Anyway, as an open-minded straight guy: Your parents probably love you very much. They may be disappointed (which would be sad) or confused (near certainly) and it'll almost certainly be pins and needles for a time, but unless you fear physical violence there's no reason to not let them know. I'm certainly not saying it'll be easy at all, but worthwhile things only come from effort and sacrifice. Once all involved come to terms with it (including yourself), they'll be better for it.

Just my fiftieth of a dollar.

hey its me, the guy that started this whole thing just a mere 28 pages ago.
i didnt realize that when i started this thread it would turn into this, actually i didnt even think i would get more than a few responses.

by the way, i would like it if nobody used the word "fag" or any other derogatory word for gay on this thread.

by the way, i would like it if nobody used the word "fag" or any other derogatory word for gay on this thread.
Oh honey...

Im 16 and really want to come out but am afraid that my parents might just think its a phase and totally ignore it or might disown me.

Im looking for advice maybe from gays who have come out.

What was your experience like? Were your friends and family supportive?

I wouldnt come out if I were you. Think of how awkward it will be.

I wouldnt come out if I were you. Think of how awkward it will be.

Not as awkward as pretending to be someone else.

Well, the idea is that you would never ride with a man who was able to do anything sexual.

Well, I missed the humor. I wasn't insulted, either, because I didn't find it particularly funny. I still don't, even now that you explained it.

Perhaps you can make light of someone else having been sexually abused. I can't. Because it happened to me. Maybe you need an empathy implant.

Oh Hon, please don’t jump to conclusion. I am simply asking if you are attracted to men or not. To me, my sexual identity is linked with my gender identity. I definitely am attracted to men only and I like sex. YAY lol.
I have no problem with asexual, I think its totally cool. I was just curious if you are sexually attracted to men since you have so much negative experiences with men.
Well, I am sexually attracted to neither. And I would want a male partner, only because that is what I see as being correct, since I'm a female. But, again, as I say...only one who is as asexual as I am, because I do not want sex to be a part of any relationship I would have.
and the idea of having romantic relations with another woman...well, it just...well, it doesn't seem right, and it grosses me out even more than the concept of being with a man.

Truly, I'd be happy only with a male who was as asexual as me. and since I'm not too likely to find that, I have my dog. I get companionship, love, and cuddles from my dog. The only other thing I need from a relationship ios a double income.

I am not gay myself but I will offer my advise. I believe that you should do as you see fit. People can offer all the advise they want to on here, but if you do as they see fit and not how you see fit, you will always live with the fact that you never made your own decision. If it turns out right, you know that you didn't make it right, someone else did. If it turns out worse, then you'll know that it is someone elses fault and you weren't able to learn from your mistakes. Being thrown out on the street seems a little extreme to me. Your parents may or may not support you, but I don't believe, if they truely love you right now, they will ever throw you out on the street. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't come out now. I'm just saying that you should do as you see fit. Good luck buddy.

a life time of repression and discrimination can make someone VERY OUTSPOKEN AND OBVIOUS. :)

And i think its fucking great, I am sick of fear. I rather die than let the bigots puts me in my place.

Pight on! Preach it on, brother/sister!! I love ya!
I am sick of being kept down, repressed...and I am sick of people trying to force me to feel shame for something I don't find shameworthy. I am sick of people trying to make me apologetic for something I feels does not need or deserve an apology. What the hell wrong did I ever do to THEM, just being me?

I refuse to be embarrassed, ashamed, or apologetic to anyone, about who and what I am. I refuse to be anything other than out, loud, and proud. Until the forces that would oppress us leaves us alone, I continue to refuse to be anything other than out, loud, and proud.

But you are making the assumption that none of us have ever been put in that box before. You are not just being offensive to offensive people, you are being offensive to everyone in that class of people, including those who would defend you against being placed in a box. I told my friend about your story about the bathroom and I told her I can't imagine what would even cause her to come to the conclusion the you didn't belong. My friend said no one would react to you the way they did unless they were a sick individual. You placed both him and I in the same box with the people who have mistreated you in your life. There is nothing that justifies that.



So let him have it, but just HIM or even say you hate it when SOME guys act that way, but you didn't. You railed against all men and how sick we all are. I didn't say anything you should have found offensive so why are you lumping me in with him. That's why people got so upset with you. I don't agree that comment warranted the level of offense you took, but it's fine for you to express your contempt for certain actions so long as you don't use them resurrect a stereotype for a group.



Couldn't someone say the same thing when people make references about TG's? Would you accept that defense? Does it excuse the behavior? NO. It doesn't. Because some are guilty doesn't mean all are and you need to see the difference. When you change alter your complaints from being about the singular actions of an individual to an overall statement about a group you cease to have anything useful to add. That's why you suddenly see a large part of the population of this thread dismissing all that you've contributed. Because you don't do yourself favors when you take one person's actions and attribute it to the group they belong to.



Again, one could make the same argument about transgenders and it would be equally wrong. You can't make arguments against a whole group to intentionally be offensive. There is actually a name for angering people just to make a point, it's called trolling and it's against the rules of the board. It's also logically invalid and terribly offensive.

They who? All men? When you group people like that where does it end? Now can he put you in the transgendered box and make a comment against all transgenders because he attacked all men? And so on. He offended you and you offended ALL MEN. You can't and haven't justified your point in doing so. You keep calling HIM THEM. There is no THEM, there is just HIM. And you were correct until you attacked the entire group he falls into because you disagreed with his actions.


I appreciate that you're apologizing. I think it's very big of anyone to apologize. However, the instance of you grouping an individual and then attacking that group isn't, nor is the instance of the thing you were originally offended by. The fact that the instance of offense isn't isolated is unfortunate, but neither you nor I can prevent the actions of others. However, you do have control over the instances of stereotyping and categorizing people that you commit. That offense is completely within your control. Grouping people by majority groupings like men, white, heterosexual is no more justifiable than minority groupings of black, jewish, transgendered, etc. If it's not acceptable to say that black people disgust me or transgenders or jews disgust me then it is not acceptable to say men or white people or straights disgust you. You can't argue that one is a horrible violation and the other is just to make a point.


We didn't start the fire. The "majority" started stereotyping US first. and they started repressing US first. and they started making jokes about US first. They keep us down on a daily basis.

Since when you you see ANY TG person portrayed respectfully in a TV commercial, a TV show, or a movie? You don't. And it seems perfectly okay to continue to make fun of my group. That is the only media attention we ever get. the type that we get on Jerry Springer. see, it's socially acceptable to make fun of US.

When they stop...I stop.

We didn't start the fire. They did.

Have you ever tried not being straight?

Get a rentboy and do stuff to youself until you get an erection, then jerk it.

Soon, your mind will convert into homosexuality.






Still sound good on paper?
it could work.and ive never heard of rentboy. you could have said playgirl, but im not sure if thats even real.

Not as awkward as pretending to be someone else.

God, don't I know it!
I didn't come out till I was 23, and living on my own. I didn't come out, because I feared my parents would tramp me in and out of psychiatrists, in an attempt to "fix" me...and I didn't feel the need to be "fixed" in that way. The fix I needed was much different, and I knew my parents would never agree to that fix...even if an army of psychotherapists told them it was the correct move, they would kept going until they found one who told them what they wanted to hear.

Jocabia

I agree that grouping people is wrong no matter what. But I have more empathy for a transgender person than a white heterosexual man. Considering the actual discrimination that actually takes place in every day life, do i feel as bad about a white men being discriminated by an unemployed, poor , disadvantaged transgender woman than a white heterosexual man ? No. I will always be defending and giving the benefit of doubt to my trans brothers and sisters. I am sorry you feel that you are being judged but you will never be able to tell me that discriminating against a transgender person and a white man constitute an equal degree of discrimination. One kind of discrimination is relatively inconsequential whereas another kind is just plain deadly. When was the last time you have suffered economically, socially or politically because a transgender person makes generalization about you? I would say never. And when was the last time a transgender person suffered economically, socially or politically because of discrimination perpetrated by straight men? Every fucking minute. Just leave the poor girl alone and be nice to her. She is frustrated and angry; I am sure she doesn’t think all men are asshole but the least you could do is to be understanding. Not to mention she already apologized, its time for you to stop your fucking whinning. :rolleyes:

I think we all need a big hug, common everyone, even thoes fundies earlier...

Anyway, best of luck to the creator of this thread.

You might wanna seek out some counseling services before you do anything rash. 16 is rather young to "know" anything. I've known a couple people who believed they were homosexuals and it turned out after some time that they had other problems that were interfering with their perception of things. Identity is something all young people struggle with, so be sure that you understand yourself before you go to your parents.

Gay or not, you owe it to yourself to get help with preparing for, and coping with, the aftermath of such a major event.

I tend to disagree; those who get the most confused are those who seek out advice and get told 100s of different things, when in reality, what they should be doing is looking inwards and asking themselves these questions because utltimately, they're the only ones who can answer them.

Believe me, if I had my time again, I would have come out when I was 17/18, and rather than being Joe Closet Case, I probably would have been alot happier at college/highschool.

The biggest question is the parent situation; and personally, I'd wait till you can independently support yourself; most parents don't normally follow up what their kids are doing, as long as they're sticking to curfews and keeping out of trouble, I doubt whether your parents would need to know whether or not you're lip-locking with another guy/girl.

We didn't start the fire. The "majority" started stereotyping US first. and they started repressing US first. and they started making jokes about US first. They keep us down on a daily basis.

Since when you you see ANY TG person portrayed respectfully in a TV commercial, a TV show, or a movie? You don't. And it seems perfectly okay to continue to make fun of my group. That is the only media attention we ever get. the type that we get on Jerry Springer. see, it's socially acceptable to make fun of US.

When they stop...I stop.

We didn't start the fire. They did.

It doesn't really matter if you started the fire or not. You can't claim that you want it out and then throw on a couple more logs. I certainly didn't start the fire, and I've never thrown on a log. You can either help put it out or keep shouting to the world that the fire isn't your fault while you throw on a couple more logs. Which do you think will be more effective, if you wish to stop getting burned?

Jocabia

I agree that grouping people is wrong no matter what. But I have more empathy for a transgender person than a white heterosexual man. Considering the actual discrimination that actually takes place in every day life, do i feel as bad about a white men being discriminated by an unemployed, poor , disadvantaged transgender woman than a white heterosexual man ? No. I will always be defending and giving the benefit of doubt to my trans brothers and sisters. I am sorry you feel that you are being judged but you will never be able to tell me that discriminating against a transgender person and a white man constitute an equal degree of discrimination. One kind of discrimination is relatively inconsequential whereas another kind is just plain deadly. When was the last time you have suffered economically, socially or politically because a transgender person makes generalization about you? I would say never. And when was the last time a transgender person suffered economically, socially or politically because of discrimination perpetrated by straight men? Every fucking minute. Just leave the poor girl alone and be nice to her. She is frustrated and angry; I am sure she doesn’t think all men are asshole but the least you could do is to be understanding. Not to mention she already apologized, its time for you to stop your fucking whinning. :rolleyes:

You're missing the point. I'm not worried that she's hurting me. I'm worried she's hurting herself and everyone else fighting for equality. You see her argument about not starting the fire. Well, there are heterosexuals that will be using her words to excuse their own bigotry. You have to practice what you preach or you're a hypocrite. You either preach equality and practice it or you don't. She is not practicing equality, so why would anyone listen when she preaches it? And trust me I WANT people to listen.

The problem that there are people out their who deserve that anger and venom. When you focus on them then your anger is righteous. When you focus on people who never did anything wrong but happen to look like them it's just anger and worse it's increasing the problem.

And I am trying to be nice to her. I truly want to be nice to her. I recognize that she has been mistreated and discriminated against and I personally am working to stop it, not just for her but for everyone. But I recognize that so long as people make excuses for ANY type of stereotyping they are making excuses for ALL types of stereotyping. When she focuses on groups rather than the people who have actually wronged her she is helping their cause and I know that's the last thing she wants to do. I find Lyric to be a very caring individual. I simply don't think she sees the consequences of expressing her pain in the way she does.

Take it to the extreme and examine it. Plenty of black people in this country have been lynched simply for being black. And there are people who would do it today if they could get away with it. Now would I say it was evidence of a gigantic problem if a white person was lynched by black people simply for being white? No. But every racist group across the country would use that as justification for lynching more black people. This is the same thing on a smaller scale. It would be uncaring to not point it out.

It doesn't really matter if you started the fire or not. You can't claim that you want it out and then throw on a couple more logs. I certainly didn't start the fire, and I've never thrown on a log. You can either help put it out or keep shouting to the world that the fire isn't your fault while you throw on a couple more logs. Which do you think will be more effective, if you wish to stop getting burned?

Most people are better at throwing more fuel on the fire, especially if they're standing in the middle of the furnace.

Most people are better at throwing more fuel on the fire, especially if they're standing in the middle of the furnace.

Yes, and it's unfortunate. What amazes me are people who throw more fuel on the fire and then complain about the heat. Yes, putting the fire out is hard, particularly when everyone is stoking it and adding fuel, but giving up and just joining in isn't helping anyone. Maybe if one starts putting it out, someone else will join in, then another, and so on. Until we outnumber those that would continue this ridiculous crusade against LGBT's.

Jocabia

I agree that grouping people is wrong no matter what. But I have more empathy for a transgender person than a white heterosexual man. Considering the actual discrimination that actually takes place in every day life, do i feel as bad about a white men being discriminated by an unemployed, poor , disadvantaged transgender woman than a white heterosexual man ? No. I will always be defending and giving the benefit of doubt to my trans brothers and sisters. I am sorry you feel that you are being judged but you will never be able to tell me that discriminating against a transgender person and a white man constitute an equal degree of discrimination. One kind of discrimination is relatively inconsequential whereas another kind is just plain deadly. When was the last time you have suffered economically, socially or politically because a transgender person makes generalization about you? I would say never. And when was the last time a transgender person suffered economically, socially or politically because of discrimination perpetrated by straight men? Every fucking minute. Just leave the poor girl alone and be nice to her. She is frustrated and angry; I am sure she doesn’t think all men are asshole but the least you could do is to be understanding. Not to mention she already apologized, its time for you to stop your fucking whinning. :rolleyes:


Thank you. It's nice to know SOMEONE gets it. SOMEONE understands the anger, the frustration, the RAGE.

You're missing the point. I'm not worried that she's hurting me. I'm worried she's hurting herself and everyone else fighting for equality. You see her argument about not starting the fire. Well, there are heterosexuals that will be using her words to excuse their own bigotry. You have to practice what you preach or you're a hypocrite. You either preach equality and practice it or you don't. She is not practicing equality, so why would anyone listen when she preaches it? And trust me I WANT people to listen.

The problem that there are people out their who deserve that anger and venom. When you focus on them then your anger is righteous. When you focus on people who never did anything wrong but happen to look like them it's just anger and worse it's increasing the problem.

And I am trying to be nice to her. I truly want to be nice to her. I recognize that she has been mistreated and discriminated against and I personally am working to stop it, not just for her but for everyone. But I recognize that so long as people make excuses for ANY type of stereotyping they are making excuses for ALL types of stereotyping. When she focuses on groups rather than the people who have actually wronged her she is helping their cause and I know that's the last thing she wants to do. I find Lyric to be a very caring individual. I simply don't think she sees the consequences of expressing her pain in the way she does.

Take it to the extreme and examine it. Plenty of black people in this country have been lynched simply for being black. And there are people who would do it today if they could get away with it. Now would I say it was evidence of a gigantic problem if a white person was lynched by black people simply for being white? No. But every racist group across the country would use that as justification for lynching more black people. This is the same thing on a smaller scale. It would be uncaring to not point it out.


Trying to be nice to me, my left fucking clavicle! That's why you enjoyed every minute of kicking me out of the LGBT Army, and IP-banning me from the site, right, Jocabia? Especially for merely expressing discontent with administrative procedures for dealing with disputes...because everyone but me got exactly what they wanted out of the resolution, and my feelings were never respected or considered. And, though I broke none of the rules, you still saw fit to IP-ban me and kick me off the site, simply because I expressed discontent.

YOU'RE the one who has been cruel and mean to me, Jocabia. You have never given my feelings an ounce of consideration or respect.

And THAT is the truth, in spite of whatever YOU want to claim.

Yeah, I was loud and abrasive. Damn right I was. I was pissed off.

But, when people started DELIBERATELY feeding that fire, and kept coming at me, with the intent of inflaming me further...not ONLY did you do nothing to stop it...you even supported them! Your rulings gave THEM everything they wanted...and me NOTHING of what I wanted.

Thank you. It's nice to know SOMEONE gets it. SOMEONE understands the anger, the frustration, the RAGE.

Lots of us understand and empathize with the anger, frustration and rage, we would just prefer for it to be focused on the people who are the problem and not people who happen to have something in common with the people who are the problem. I would like to see you capture your anger, frustration and rage and use to great effect to benefit the cause of equal rights for all gender identities and sexualities, but that requires focusing your anger like a sniper rifle rather than carpet bombing.

There is a lot of power behind your anger, frustration and rage and I really hope that it gets put to use, so long as it's use is beneficial to the cause I strongly believe in, the cause of equality for all gender identies and sexualities, and not used for a cause I am very much against which is just to damage anyone who isn't a transgender.

The former is a benefit to all of mankind.

The latter is damaging to all of mankind, especially transgenders. Maybe some heterosexuals started that war, but if you fight a war that is every group for themselves, the largest group, the heterosexuals, is most likely to win.

To win this war you need to create two sides, those who wish for equality and those who don't, and get their soldiers to defect to our side. That's a war we can and will win.

Lots of us understand and empathize with the anger, frustration and rage, we would just prefer for it to be focused on the people who are the problem and not people who happen to have something in common with the people who are the problem. I would like to see you capture your anger, frustration and rage and use to great effect to benefit the cause of equal rights for all gender identities and sexualities, but that requires focusing your anger like a sniper rifle rather than carpet bombing.

There is a lot of power behind your anger, frustration and rage and I really hope that it gets put to use, so long as it's use is beneficial to the cause I strongly believe in, the cause of equality for all gender identies and sexualities, and not used for a cause I am very much against which is just to damage anyone who isn't a transgender.

The former is a benefit to all of mankind.

The latter is damaging to all of mankind, especially transgenders. Maybe some heterosexuals started that war, but if you fight a war that is every group for themselves, the largest group, the heterosexuals, is most likely to win.

To win this war you need to create two sides, those who wish for equality and those who don't, and get their soldiers to defect to our side. That's a war we can and will win.


you speak the right words to make yourself look good for P.R. purposes...but in your heart of hearts, I doubt you REALLY care about the issue. You haven't been touched by it anywhere NEAR as bad as I am, so you can't POSSIBLY have the level of righteous indignation that I do. YOU CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND IT!!

Now, Jocabia...you really want a chance to prove you care?

THEN BACK OFF!!!

Leave me alone. Before you get me all riled up again...and then cause me to get THIS...my favorite nation deleted. Or is that what you really want?

Haven't you done enough damage to me already?

Just leave me alone.

Trying to be nice to me, my left fucking clavicle! That's why you enjoyed every minute of kicking me out of the LGBT Army, and IP-banning me from the site, right, Jocabia? Especially for merely expressing discontent with administrative procedures for dealing with disputes...because everyone but me got exactly what they wanted out of the resolution, and my feelings were never respected or considered. And, though I broke none of the rules, you still saw fit to IP-ban me and kick me off the site, simply because I expressed discontent.

YOU'RE the one who has been cruel and mean to me, Jocabia. You have never given my feelings an ounce of consideration or respect.

And THAT is the truth, in spite of whatever YOU want to claim.

Yeah, I was loud and abrasive. Damn right I was. I was pissed off.

But, when people started DELIBERATELY feeding that fire, and kept coming at me, with the intent of inflaming me further...not ONLY did you do nothing to stop it...you even supported them! Your rulings gave THEM everything they wanted...and me NOTHING of what I wanted.

I won't discuss this with you here but you can say all you want that no one cares but the decision to handle your case that way was a hard one discussed for weeks and still being discussed now. I'm sorry that you see it the way that you do, but it is not ignoring your feelings to not bow to your will. You should probably analyze what is so abrasive about your requests and your decisions that, by your own admission, no one supported your requests. Perhaps that's because your requests were unreasonable as can be witnessed by anyone who read the thread here on NS. The NS moderators came to the same conclusion we did. More importantly, we have no ability to control what people say and do on NS. Your issue with Nadkor was taken to the moderators of NS and they did not side with you. We have no association with the moderators of NS. What would you have us do?

We will not be held captive by your constant suggestions that anything short of doing exactly what you want is ignoring your feelings. Your feelings were very much considered by we cannot and will not allow you to bully people either on NS or on our forum. I think it's unfortunate that you take a my way or the highway stance because if you'd simply choose to occasionally compromise your stance once in a while for the good of the group you'd still be a member of LGBTS Army here and there, but you don't care about their feelings. Your feelings aren't the only one's that matter and you have twice attacked our group in this thread. The group hasn't made your case public or attacked you in any way. I'd appreciate it if you discontinued attacking our group simply because they, we, wouldn't let you have your way.

Next time you tell a group of people it's my way or the highway understand that sometimes people are going to take the highway option as we did.

you speak the right words to make yourself look good for P.R. purposes...but in your heart of hearts, I doubt you REALLY care about the issue. You haven't been touched by it anywhere NEAR as bad as I am, so you can't POSSIBLY have the level of righteous indignation that I do. YOU CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND IT!!

See, this is exactly the problem that everyone has been trying to make you see for three weeks. Because I'm not like you, I can't care about you? What kind of statement is that? You're not like me, are you suggesting you couldn't possibly consider my feelings?

I certainly hope you're wrong, because if the only people we can help, the only people we can care about, the only people we can fight for, are those that are like us then it's going to be a lonely world and people like the originator of this thread will still be as afraid to tell their parents a century from now as they are today.

I don't accept that. I won't. I will do everything I am humanly capable of to make sure that your experiences and the experiences of the originator of this thread and many of its participants are so isolated that no one can "EVEN BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND IT!!"

To the originator of the thread, there are many who would help you deal with the issues you face. And you needn't fear that your friends and family simply won't understand just because they aren't gay themselves. As Lyric pointed out, her mother is very understanding and loving even though she doesn't completely identify with what Lyric is going through. If your friends and family truly love you they will continue to do so no matter what sex you happened to be interested in. It seems like there was tons of useful advice offered by many of the people here and I hope despite the bickering and silliness that erupted that you have gleened something from that advice and I wish you the best of luck. If there is anything I can do to help, please TG me.

To everyone else, it is my hope that one day a thread asking what to do to tell your parents you are gay is completely unnecessary.

Now, Jocabia...you really want a chance to prove you care?

THEN BACK OFF!!!

Leave me alone. Before you get me all riled up again...and then cause me to get THIS...my favorite nation deleted. Or is that what you really want?

Haven't you done enough damage to me already?

Just leave me alone.

I'd be happy to leave you alone and I did until you mentioned a group I care about very much. I'd appreciate if you'd keep your issues with some of the members of our group focused on those member and not on the group as a whole (a recurring theme, no?).

I don't think you've done anything actionable in the thread and I hope that you don't. I like you, Lyric, and I think the advice you gave early in the thread was incredibly valuable and it takes guts to share your story. I look forward to your contribution in future threads.

I'd be happy to leave you alone and I did until you mentioned a group I care about very much....and what group is that?

To everyone else, it is my hope that one day a thread asking what to do to tell your parents you are gay is completely unnecessary.

Now, that, I agree with...

;) I found Jocabia incredibly condescending, listenning to him / her already pisses me off even though its not directed to me!

;) I found Jocabia incredibly condescending, listenning to him / her already pisses me off even though its not directed to me!

Typically when two people are speaking and one yells and the other remains calm those that agree with the yeller will find the calm one condescending and those that agree with the calm one will find the yeller to be overemotional and irrational. Don't believe me? Watch almost any political debate.

So if being patient and calm makes me condescending, then let me fix that now. ANYONE who judges people by things they have no control over like skin color, sexuality, gender identity, height, looks, nationality, deformities, etc. is a plain out, unreasonable fucking BIGOT. That better? A little less condescending for you.

You're right I've never been mistreated by the transgender community. Nope just by a singular transgender so instead of aiming my comments at the whole community, I aimed my comments at her.

You pointed out who Lyric has been mistreated by, but you missed saying she hasn't been denied a job by, judged by her gender identity by, judged by how she looks by, judged by her choice by. None of those things have ever been done to her by white, heterosexual male who believes that people should be judged by their actions and not how they were born. Or is that not an important enough distinction for you? We only group people by how they were born and not what they beleive, huh?

More specifically none of those things were done by me. None of those things are my fault. To suggest that it is acceptable to attack me simply because of how I was born is ridiculous. I'm not asking for sympathy. I asking for it to stop. It's bigotry by every sense of the word.

I belong to no group that as a whole is responsible for her pain and suffering.

I belong to no group that as a whole has repressed LGBT's.

I do however belong to a group that defends LGBT's and seeks to stop her pain and suffering.

If I am going to be judged, either judge me as an individual or judge by the groups I've chosen to associate myself with. Attacking me because how I was born is plainly wrong.

I'm sure you'd like the same consideration, no? I know that Lyric would. I give her that consideration. I expect the same level of respect in return and it's a fair expectation.

Meh. THat sounds good enough on paper. :)

Little advice:

To Thread Starter:
If your parents are the way that you say they are back near the beginning of this thread, then yes, i believe you should wait for the right time. Although that time might come anywhere from a year down the road to 8 or 9 years down the road. Some people are stuck on their ways so bad that they can't see past what they want to and it's a sad thing.


To Lyric:
You should probably calm down. From what i have read you have personally attacked a few people and should probably tone it down. The last thing i'm sure you want is for a MOD to come down and slap you around a bit for rule-breaking.

And also, not all "male's" believe that bodily fluid is a good thing. But if you remember, it is the exchange of a certain bodily fluid that made you. Procreation is a major thing that human have evolved to do and it is what makes us who we are.


To Everyone Else:
Now i may be straight, but back in my home down (I was raised in IL, live in MN now) i had roughly 3 gay friends, 1 lesbian friend, and 2 Bisexual friends. I have nothing wrong with them as they are cool people. They all have their own ideas on what should go on in the world and thats cool with me. I myself believe that there should be equality in the world but with people who are homophobic running nations around the world, that will probably never happen. You just have to live the days as they go by.

Since when you you see ANY TG person portrayed respectfully in a TV commercial, a TV show, or a movie? You don't.

Felicity Huffman in Transamerica?

I won't discuss this with you here but you can say all you want that no one cares but the decision to handle your case that way was a hard one discussed for weeks and still being discussed now. I'm sorry that you see it the way that you do, but it is not ignoring your feelings to not bow to your will. You should probably analyze what is so abrasive about your requests and your decisions that, by your own admission, no one supported your requests. Perhaps that's because your requests were unreasonable as can be witnessed by anyone who read the thread here on NS. The NS moderators came to the same conclusion we did. More importantly, we have no ability to control what people say and do on NS. Your issue with Nadkor was taken to the moderators of NS and they did not side with you. We have no association with the moderators of NS. What would you have us do?

We will not be held captive by your constant suggestions that anything short of doing exactly what you want is ignoring your feelings. Your feelings were very much considered by we cannot and will not allow you to bully people either on NS or on our forum. I think it's unfortunate that you take a my way or the highway stance because if you'd simply choose to occasionally compromise your stance once in a while for the good of the group you'd still be a member of LGBTS Army here and there, but you don't care about their feelings. Your feelings aren't the only one's that matter and you have twice attacked our group in this thread. The group hasn't made your case public or attacked you in any way. I'd appreciate it if you discontinued attacking our group simply because they, we, wouldn't let you have your way.

Next time you tell a group of people it's my way or the highway understand that sometimes people are going to take the highway option as we did.


I will not be drawn into this conversation here. You are obviously TRYING to rile me up again, with the intention of getting me deleted. Haven't you done enough damage?

Just leave me alone, Jocabia. I want nothing to do with you, ever again. You are beyond forgiveness in my book.

;) I found Jocabia incredibly condescending, listenning to him / her already pisses me off even though its not directed to me!
I like you! I get the feeling we may be sisters, even though you've never said so yet.
Please TG me at some point, would ya?

Felicity Huffman in Transamerica?

Whoopie doo dah. One. And how many are ridiculed and made fun of instead?

everything from "The Bud Light 'girls'" to The Dunkin' Donuts Man pretending to be a lady was intended to be comedic, and make fun of people loike me, and it is damn hurtful!

Trying to be nice to me, my left fucking clavicle! That's why you enjoyed every minute of kicking me out of the LGBT Army, and IP-banning me from the site, right, Jocabia? Especially for merely expressing discontent with administrative procedures for dealing with disputes...because everyone but me got exactly what they wanted out of the resolution, and my feelings were never respected or considered. And, though I broke none of the rules, you still saw fit to IP-ban me and kick me off the site, simply because I expressed discontent.
You've broken many rules, repeatedly Lyric. That statement is a lie. Your temper has gotten the best of you on many occasions, and you've continued to ignore advice from multiple mods. I suggest you drop it.


But, when people started DELIBERATELY feeding that fire, and kept coming at me, with the intent of inflaming me further...not ONLY did you do nothing to stop it...you even supported them! Your rulings gave THEM everything they wanted...and me NOTHING of what I wanted.
Perhaps, if you watched your temper, you wouldn't be in this mess?


A post from earlier...
thank you. And that was why I made the comment about pigs. I meant to be offensive to offensive people...because sometimes, that is the only thing they understand!!
Nevertheless, you're purposely trying to offend people, which is wrong. Just because you think specific people deserve to be offended doesn't mean that you can do so.

Wow, this thread went from a helping thread to a 30 page bitch fest, GIVE IT UP. BOTH OF YOU!

This is jsut getting outrageous, I mean seriously some people came here to see if they might be able to use the advice that we have been giving (and some pretty good advice I don't mind saying) most of us have expressed some emotional background which really would help someone, but now, now this thread is a joke, it is worse then one of thoes religious threads.
WE HAVE TRANSGENDER FIGHTING THE LGBT PEOPLE

Christ, give it up. I came in here with respect for both of the arguing parties 3 days ago, but now, you are both going on like idiots, I dont care who started it, I just want you two to give it the hell up.

If you want to continue this stupid-ass argument make your own thread of it, Don't post your arguments on a thread that is supposed to be helping peopel, all you are doing is making yourself and the idea that you represent look stupid.
:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
NOW HUG AND MAKE UP! --> :fluffle:

I like you! I get the feeling we may be sisters, even though you've never said so yet.
Please TG me at some point, would ya?


I consider you as my sister already.
*hugs* and *kisses*

I cant find your nation, i cant TG you :(

I consider you as my sister already.
*hugs* and *kisses*

I cant find your nation, i cant TG you :(

Yes you can. Just go to the start-up NS page, with your nation up. click on The World. Type "Lyric" into the space and hit Find Nation.

If you still have trouble, I'll TG you first, then you'll be able to find me real easy.

Im not gay but i have 2 brothers who are and my parents still love them if your parents dont accept it they dont deserve you anyway

Wow, this thread went from a helping thread to a 30 page bitch fest, GIVE IT UP. BOTH OF YOU!

This is jsut getting outrageous, I mean seriously some people came here to see if they might be able to use the advice that we have been giving (and some pretty good advice I don't mind saying) most of us have expressed some emotional background which really would help someone, but now, now this thread is a joke, it is worse then one of thoes religious threads.
WE HAVE TRANSGENDER FIGHTING THE LGBT PEOPLE

Christ, give it up. I came in here with respect for both of the arguing parties 3 days ago, but now, you are both going on like idiots, I dont care who started it, I just want you two to give it the hell up.

If you want to continue this stupid-ass argument make your own thread of it, Don't post your arguments on a thread that is supposed to be helping peopel, all you are doing is making yourself and the idea that you represent look stupid.
:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
NOW HUG AND MAKE UP! --> :fluffle:
True words have not been said about this arguement. They are like two little kids who just won't stop.

Isn't that how a lot of threads end on this board? ;)

;) I found Jocabia incredibly condescending, listenning to him / her already pisses me off even though its not directed to me!
And I don't.

Why do you? What has he said that is condescending?

And I don't.

Why do you? What has he said that is condescending?

To be fair, it's a typical reaction. If she agreed with me I would appear patient and calm. She doesn't so I appear condescending. To someone who agrees with Lyric it seems like righteous anger and to someone who understand that attacking people because of how they were born is ALWAYS wrong it appears she's letting her emotion cloud her judgement. I don't see a need to delve any further into this than that. We won't change their mind and they won't change ours.

Whoopie doo dah. One. And how many are ridiculed and made fun of instead?

everything from "The Bud Light 'girls'" to The Dunkin' Donuts Man pretending to be a lady was intended to be comedic, and make fun of people loike me, and it is damn hurtful!

Oh, come on, I think you're just being a wee bit precious in the piss taking stakes. I mean, Jesus H Christ; take a damn chill pill. Bigots know that if that do something to piss you off, they'll continue doing because they know they can get the reaction they want.

Take a lesson out of the Book of Lovely Boys - laught at yourself, take the piss out of others and say the occasional double entendre - you'll find things are alot better than if you're some sort of hard core nutter who sees offence in every damn thing out there.

Wow, this thread went from a helping thread to a 30 page bitch fest, GIVE IT UP. BOTH OF YOU!

...*snip
:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
NOW HUG AND MAKE UP! --> :fluffle:HAHAHAHAHA

"A 30 pages bitch fest"...

I love the expression :D

Oh, come on, I think you're just being a wee bit precious in the piss taking stakes. I mean, Jesus H Christ; take a damn chill pill. Bigots know that if that do something to piss you off, they'll continue doing because they know they can get the reaction they want.

Take a lesson out of the Book of Lovely Boys - laught at yourself, take the piss out of others and say the occasional double entendre - you'll find things are alot better than if you're some sort of hard core nutter who sees offence in every damn thing out there.

Yeah? Let's see how YOU feel if you are a part of a small minotrity group that it seems perfectly okay to make fun of! Let's see how YOU feel if you belong to a group of people who, since 1994, have averaged one hate-crime murder per month! Largely because we have been dehumanized by all the ridicule.

Let's see how you feel if you belong to a group that has a one in 17 chance of getting married...and a 1 in 12 chance of being MURDERED!! We stand a better chance, post-op...of getting MURDERED rather than MARRIED! Just fucking think about that for a minute.

Yeah? Let's see how YOU feel if you are a part of a small minotrity group that it seems perfectly okay to make fun of! Let's see how YOU feel if you belong to a group of people who, since 1994, have averaged one hate-crime murder per month! Largely because we have been dehumanized by all the ridicule.

Let's see how you feel if you belong to a group that has a one in 17 chance of getting married...and a 1 in 12 chance of being MURDERED!! We stand a better chance, post-op...of getting MURDERED rather than MARRIED! Just fucking think about that for a minute.

Hmm. I teach victims of domestic violence how to choose, carry, and use firearms for personal protection. It works. The stalking and abuse stops.

If you're worried about your personal safety, live in an area that allows you to get a concealed weapons permit. Like Virginia.

Matthew Shepard would still be alive today if he had been carrying a gun.
http://www.pinkpistols.org/

HAHAHAHAHA

"A 30 pages bitch fest"...

I love the expression :D

Veiled bigotry is really not becoming.

Yeah? Let's see how YOU feel if you are a part of a small minotrity group that it seems perfectly okay to make fun of! Let's see how YOU feel if you belong to a group of people who, since 1994, have averaged one hate-crime murder per month! Largely because we have been dehumanized by all the ridicule.

Let's see how you feel if you belong to a group that has a one in 17 chance of getting married...and a 1 in 12 chance of being MURDERED!! We stand a better chance, post-op...of getting MURDERED rather than MARRIED! Just fucking think about that for a minute.

That's a terrible statistic that I'm shocked and sorrowful to learn. I don't carry a weapon but I agree with the previous poster that I would consider it were in that kind of danger.

My fear is that you let those that perform these acts and ridicule of the type you describe are taking your life without ever meeting you or interacting with you. I've seen it in you, Lyric. You're full of love and you have plenty to offer and share with your fellow human being. Don't let the idiots that would degrade and dehumanize you take that away as well. I'm certain that in your shoes I'd be angry too, but to let them steal away the person that you truly are and what you have to offer the world because it's consumed by that anger would be greatest shame of all.

I'm sorry for the reaction you've gotten from some in this thread and in other threads as well. I hope you can see the difference between an off-the-cuff attack on you and the arguments of someone that is just hoping to find common ground with you. I don't want to be lumped in with those that would degrade you. We may disagree by our disagreement does not reflect on my view of you.

Veiled bigotry is really not becoming.Cry me a river. :p

Hmm. I teach victims of domestic violence how to choose, carry, and use firearms for personal protection. It works. The stalking and abuse stops.

If you're worried about your personal safety, live in an area that allows you to get a concealed weapons permit. Like Virginia.

Matthew Shepard would still be alive today if he had been carrying a gun.
http://www.pinkpistols.org/

Well, I actually used to live in TEXAS. I don't get to choose where I live anymore. That is part of not having a viable means of supporting myself, thanks to bigotry, discrimination and hatred.

Thank the good Lord my mother was willing to allow me to live with her, so that I DON'T end up on the street somewhere.

But that means I have to live where SHE wants. And right now, that happens to be the foothills of the Pocono Mountains, in Pennsylvania...or, as I call it...Bumfucktu, Pennsylvania. (My little joke, Bumfucktu, is not a real place, it's a cross between Timbuktu...and Bumfuck.) since there's nothing of any value in the area we live in, I call it Bumfucktu. There are no real jobs within about a 50 mile radius, one HAS to have a car living out where I do.

Well, I actually used to live in TEXAS. I don't get to choose where I live anymore. That is part of not having a viable means of supporting myself, thanks to bigotry, discrimination and hatred.

Thank the good Lord my mother was willing to allow me to live with her, so that I DON'T end up on the street somewhere.

But that means I have to live where SHE wants. And right now, that happens to be the foothills of the Pocono Mountains, in Pennsylvania...or, as I call it...Bumfucktu, Pennsylvania. (My little joke, Bumfucktu, is not a real place, it's a cross between Timbuktu...and Bumfuck.) since there's nothing of any value in the area we live in, I call it Bumfucktu. There are no real jobs within about a 50 mile radius, one HAS to have a car living out where I do.

The Washington, DC Metro area, whether in the city or suburbs, is a place rather free of the bigotry you mention. Lots of people here, good jobs, etc.

You should figure out a way to move here.

The Washington, DC Metro area, whether in the city or suburbs, is a place rather free of the bigotry you mention. Lots of people here, good jobs, etc.

You should figure out a way to move here.

Yeah? With what? My good looks? I do not have a job or a means to support myself right now.
Would YOU be willing to put me up rent free, and feed me, until I managed to find a job? Didn't think so.

P.S. Incidentally, I am aware of that already, having been to the DC area a few times already. I am going there again in a little over a week, with my mom, because she never has been. My mom is paying for the trip as I haven't got the money.
We are going to be going to see the Washington Monument, the Lincoln abd Jefferson Memorials, the Vietnam Veterans Wall (my mom lost some folks in Vietnam) We are also going to see four of the museums attached to the Smithsonian, and then we also will be visiting Capital Mall, dropping in on our Senator and Congressman, and we will be going to sit in the Senate and House Galleries for a little bit.
We will be going to see our Congressman, Paul Kanjorski, who graciously provided us with the tickets to the Galleries, and one of our Senators, Arlen Specter.
I'm not bothering with Santorum, because I cannot stand him, and the last time I went to see him, he threatened to have me bodily thrown out of his office bby Capitol Security if I did not leave. And I actuially had scheduled an appointment!! But, because I'm a transsexual, Santorum didn't want to see me. Forget that, legally, I'm a constituent...that is the way Santorum treated me, back in 1997. I haven't forgotten. And in 2006, I will enjoy throwing Santorum out of PENNSYLVANIA'S office! Hello, Senator Casey!!

Yeah? With what? My good looks? I do not have a job or a means to support myself right now.
Would YOU be willing to put me up rent free, and feed me, until I managed to find a job? Didn't think so.

Yes, I would. I've put up victims of domestic violence in my own house.

What makes you think I wouldn't.

Send me a telegram through NS, and we'll figure out a plan.

you have to realised that on this earth certain things were meant to be and certain things weren;t

concealing your interesting sexual preference is something that was meant to be and you should never ever disclose this to anybody except your potential mate.

Unless, you are prepared for possible humiliation, disgrace, awkwardness and eventual liberation, then you should carry on with you 'coming out' plan.

If you do intend to go for it, i advise that you break the news when you parents are going to sleep. You have to feel sincere about it so that your parents are able to be sentient of your feelings. If they love you so, they would try, their utmost best to embrace your sexual preference with open arms. Nonetheless, tons of screaming and crying may be heard for the first few days after announcement. It is alright and is the norm. Just shrug it off and shower your mum and dad with love.

Letting them know that you care for them would make them realise that sexual preference isn't really that important after all.

Yes, I would. I've put up victims of domestic violence in my own house.

What makes you think I wouldn't.

Send me a telegram through NS, and we'll figure out a plan.

If you actually end up doing this let me know. I have some contacts out there that might be able to help. I worked for the government there for a couple of years.

If you actually end up doing this let me know. I have some contacts out there that might be able to help. I worked for the government there for a couple of years.

Couldn't do it. It would break my mother's heart.

Couldn't do it. It would break my mother's heart.

I actually used to go to a very ritzy restaurant where the bartenders are allowed to wear makeup, wigs and jewelry as they see fit (the uniforms are identical for both sexes). The restaurant does very well and as far as I know has no problems resultant of such things at all. I'm very good friends with one of the bartenders, Hugo. Great guy and gets offended by an empty glass.

HAHAHAHAHA

"A 30 pages bitch fest"...

I love the expression :D

... and your post contributed what to this thread? Nothing. If you can't do that, then don't post. You've come into this thread and insulted it without adding anything. Don't do it again.

I actually used to go to a very ritzy restaurant where the bartenders are allowed to wear makeup, wigs and jewelry as they see fit (the uniforms are identical for both sexes). The restaurant does very well and as far as I know has no problems resultant of such things at all. I'm very good friends with one of the bartenders, Hugo. Great guy and gets offended by an empty glass.
I meant I couldn't move to Washington. Would break my mom's heart.

Besides, I am not moving all my stuff again, do you know how much of a bitch moving is?

I meant I couldn't move to Washington. Would break my mom's heart.

Besides, I am not moving all my stuff again, do you know how much of a bitch moving is?

Lyric, this is me you're talking to, do you remember how much we have in common there (moving)? In that last five years I've fully moved four times, meaning moved more than five hundred miles per move (not to mentionand I've lived five states,three in the last year).

And I knew what you meant. I was just pointing out that DC is a much cooler city than some.

i live in Texas, and i believe what i was raised to believe.
the gays are wrong in thier choice. then again, noones perfect, good luck mr. gay on your parents.

the gays are wrong in thier choice. .

I respect your opinion but just wondering - what choice?

I'm gay and I never had a choice! If I had I probably wouldn't be gay, would I?

I can live with it now but it used to really get me down... :(

I respect your opinion but just wondering - what choice?

I'm gay and I never had a choice! If I had I probably wouldn't be gay, would I?

I can live with it now but it used to really get me down... :(
sounds like your almost saying that you dont WANT to be gay. if that is the case, then why are you?

i live in Texas, and i believe what i was raised to believe.
the gays are wrong in thier choice. then again, noones perfect, good luck mr. gay on your parents.

That's a good defense. "I ignore scientific evidence but it's not my fault. I was born that way." I thoroughly enjoy a person who claims he had no choice in his beliefs while espousing the fallacy of the 'gay choice'.

sounds like your almost saying that you dont WANT to be gay. if that is the case, then why are you?

because I have no choice whatsoever!!!!!!!! I didn't just wake up and decide "Oh, I'm going to be gay today". I don't particularly like it but I have to accept it because the only other options are suicide and pretending to be straight. I can't do either of those for obvious reasons so I'm just going to get on with my life.

If God hated gays and he is omnipotent, then how come there are so many in the world of today? We don't choose our sexual orientation, you can discover it but you can never choose it. It is with you from birth and you discover it with the coming of puberty.

i believe that man was givin his seed to plant, and have it grow, not to put in another man' anus! but fine, do what you want with it, just keep it out of Texas, and in your gay community whereever it is, dont really care.

There's loads of useful stuff and info, advice etc on
www.gaypride.com
It's a forum. There's lots of closeted and out gay, bi and lesbian teens and they may have been through what you're going through. So there's a good place for help.

because I have no choice whatsoever!!!!!!!! I didn't just wake up and decide "Oh, I'm going to be gay today". I don't particularly like it but I have to accept it because the only other options are suicide and pretending to be straight. I can't do either of those for obvious reasons so I'm just going to get on with my life.

If God hated gays and he is omnipotent, then how come there are so many in the world of today? We don't choose our sexual orientation, you can discover it but you can never choose it. It is with you from birth and you discover it with the coming of puberty.

i dont know what to say. beside finally another Christian!, and try giving a girl a kiss. that would be a strong start to something you "like"

i dont know what to say. beside finally another Christian!, and try giving a girl a kiss. that would be a strong start to something you "like"

I am a Christian and I have kissed a girl before in an attempt to "turn myself straight". It didn't work! I didn't like it and I now realise that I am gay for good. As long as I live my life to the full and treat other people as best as I can, there is no reason why God should punish me...

I'm not having a go at you but you really have to realise that sexual orientation cannot be changed. I don't fancy women period. (talking American even though British - lol)... And I can't see that suddenly changing. God doesn't hate me for what I am - God loves each and every one of us (or did I get that wrong? Isnt that what Jesus taught?)...

:fluffle:

I am a Christian and I have kissed a girl before in an attempt to "turn myself straight". It didn't work! I didn't like it and I now realise that I am gay for good. As long as I live my life to the full and treat other people as best as I can, there is no reason why God should punish me...

I'm not having a go at you but you really have to realise that sexual orientation cannot be changed. I don't fancy women period. (talking American even though British - lol)... And I can't see that suddenly changing. God doesn't hate me for what I am - God loves each and every one of us (or did I get that wrong? Isnt that what Jesus taught?)...

:fluffle:

The son of God was not God, not to say your wrong. if you ever come to Texas let me know. ill get you a girl. and another thing, fancy sounds more british to me. :) . try getting into a meaningful relationship, where personality matters.
but dont do a sex change, thats just where they mutalate your penis and cut off your balls. you dont even get ovaries! but the relationship thing, try it.

The son of God was not God, not to say your wrong. if you ever come to Texas let me know. ill get you a girl. and another thing, fancy sounds more british to me. :) . try getting into a meaningful relationship, where personality matters.
but dont do a sex change, thats just where they mutalate your penis and cut off your balls. you dont even get ovaries! but the relationship thing, try it.

I meant period is American lol. And I dont want to be transgender thank you kindly. I like my male genitals as they are.

And I also really don't get feelings towards women. I don't think you understand. Never Mind. I fancy men. I have never had more than platonic feelings for women and doubt I ever will.

I find it kind of funny that about half of the people giving advice seem to feel the need to say "I'm not gay, but..." before they say anything.

I meant period is American lol. And I dont want to be transgender thank you kindly. I like my male genitals as they are.

And I also really don't get feelings towards women. I don't think you understand. Never Mind. I fancy men. I have never had more than platonic feelings for women and doubt I ever will.
ardalia, you need someone to force feed you with a vagina. :)

The son of God was not God, not to say your wrong. if you ever come to Texas let me know. ill get you a girl. and another thing, fancy sounds more british to me. :) . try getting into a meaningful relationship, where personality matters.
but dont do a sex change, thats just where they mutalate your penis and cut off your balls. you dont even get ovaries! but the relationship thing, try it.


He said isn't that what Jesus taught or are you suggesting Jesus didn't teach the word of God? Someone needs to read their Bible a little more closely. And you claim to be a Christian. If you are trying to say it's appropriate to negate the law as Jesus laid down because he is ONLY the Son of God, then you are no Christian.

How about we'll stay out of your bigotted community if you stay out of this thread? Deal?

ardalia, you need someone to force feed you with a vagina. :)

That might just make me puke. :rolleyes:

That might just make me puke. :rolleyes:
is it the blood? its the blood isnt it? come on i believe in you! you CAN go straight!

is it the blood? its the blood isnt it? come on i believe in you! you CAN go straight!

No... I really can't. Boobs are OK... They don't turn me on but hey! Whatever floats your boat. But vaginas? *shudders* Seriously I couldn't do it. Appreciate the well-intentioned gesture but still I'm gay and there's nothing for it.

Hey, just ignore all that stuff that Jesus taught about being loving and humble and whatnot, 'Christian'. Instead, come on here and prove that you understand nothing about sexuality, gender identity, having an adult conversation, the Bible, Jesus Christ and good manners.

Sorry. This guy needs to be told. If I need to be graphic, I will... Sorry... lol :)

'Christian'..

ok, im going to ignore everything else, dont you dare imply anything else.....'Athiest'

No... I really can't. Boobs are OK... They don't turn me on but hey! Whatever floats your boat. But vaginas? *shudders* Seriously I couldn't do it. Appreciate the well-intentioned gesture but still I'm gay and there's nothing for it.



Sorry. This guy needs to be told. If I need to be graphic, I will... Sorry... lol :)

I think that's the best handling of a troll/flamebaiting ever. "Hey, thanks for the advice, but I'm happy how I am." I'm almost sorry I reported him now.

No... I really can't. Boobs are OK... They don't turn me on but hey! Whatever floats your boat. But vaginas? *shudders* Seriously I couldn't do it. Appreciate the well-intentioned gesture but still I'm gay and there's nothing for it.



Sorry. This guy needs to be told. If I need to be graphic, I will... Sorry... lol :)

well, thats a start, and are you on MY side against the athiest? if a girl ever hits on you, go with it.

Believe it or not, I'm gay. I just recently came out to my parents just over a week ago. I have been out to my friends for about 2 years now, and I was closeted for 2 years before that. My parents were hit very hard by it. Threy cried about it. We cried about it. But its who I am. And they have accepted that as a fact now. They still love me reguardless. Although they may not support it, or like the fact that I'm gay, they still love me. Never be afraid to tell them anything. Once you tell them, they will probably take it rough for the first few days, but then they will probably accept the fact that you are gay.