NationStates Jolt Archive

The state of Israel has only existed for 50 years, due to displaced Jews. Palestinian land was "partitioned" by the UN after the holocaust in favour of the minority Jews. This was an absolute atrocity and IRONY that resulted in massive ethnic cleansing by Zionist militias.

How foul for anyone to suggest that the Israeli government in not occupying palestinian land, how foul for anyone to say it is not stolen land, how foul for anyone to not consider the countless UN resolutions against the atrocities that are still perpetuated by Israel that Israel have just ignored?

Quite like the US govt. relationship with the UN I guess!

Oops! I didn't mean to imply that the US govt. supports killing Muslims or palestinians

BTW I am Wiccan


Yeah, the Nazis were also neopagans. Islam has enough countries so leave us alone. Yeah, I am getting really tired of having to point this out to every weepy moany crystal waver that bounces his happy little self through here.

There are the extremists and then there is their support structure. We did not beat Nazi Germany by just focusing on “Nazi Extremists”.

I would rather fight all of Islam while we have a huge technological advantage than beat around the bush pretending like “The moderates” will somehow give us peace until one of these fanatic governments built on “Mutually Assured Destruction” decide that they will be the “first” in this conflict to use the bomb.

You didn't beat Nazi Germany. The Allies did. And they didn't push for the complete extinction of the German people either, whereas you're eager to get off on sending each and every Muslim, man woman or child into camps. Classic abuse pattern here; get abused, end up wanting to abuse. And I bet you weren't even born when the Holocaust took place.

And if you think technological superiority is everything, here's some geography lesson for you. Vietnam. Afghanistan. Iraq. The insurgents were poorly armed and organized compared to the opposing force but they still managed to inflict significant casualties. Take that observation, and multiply it by the support of modernizing, fairly technologicaly advanced Arab nations like Qatar should Israel be stupid enough to nuke Mecca. And add to that as mentioned a global OPEC embargo against Israel and America if it decided to condone the nuking.

Like I said, the jihadists trying to drive you into the sea are just a fraction of a vast population. Yamamoto didn't want to wake a sleeping giant by bombing Pearl Harbor, and you won't believe how huge this giant called Islam is if you do wake it up by nuking Mecca.

I wouldn't be surprised if the government of both America and Israel are keeping tabs on you right now so you don't get into any position where you can possibly achieve your wet dream of Muslim Genocide.

:rolleyes:

I would rather fight all of Islam while we have a huge technological advantage than beat around the bush pretending like “The moderates” will somehow give us peace until one of these fanatic governments built on “Mutually Assured Destruction” decide that they will be the “first” in this conflict to use the bomb.You're way off the deep end, dude. This isn't going to happen. No-one wants to take on Islam as a religion...it is their despotic regimes that need attention...and not inthe way you imply. Read my reply to you "nuke mecca" idea. Military capability=/=strategic, economic, social advantage, and it DEFINATELY does not equal peace.

If you would kill Jews in order to appease Arabs, then why should I care when they cut off your head?Enleighten the class and give us one example where I said that Jews should be killed to appease Arabs.

Seriously, if you deny us the right to defend ourselves, then you forfeit any protection you might have had, in the eyes of Justice. Again a example please. Untill you have not given an example of this or make excuses, I will paste and copy this extremist and fascist example of your lies here
Be responsable and give examples or stop barking around your Zionist version of Nazism. You really learned a lot of them, Yeru Goebbels

maybe we will see how you are going to go nuk mecca without any oil!!!!!

just remember that the arab states combined produce over 95,150,500
bbl/per day

while Israel+USA+EU produce 10,448,080 bbl/day

while consuming 34 million per day, so lets see how you will start your planes, tanks, subs, ships, and even your power stations when you bomb mecca...

and i really doubt it that USA and the EU will ever agree on bombing mecca


Israel developed its arsenal in case it had to eradicate the Soviet Union. America knows, that if you little bastards become too much of a problem, America can just let Israel finish off all of you, then you are all gone and America does not have to dirty its hands with your blood.

With Israel’s new Enhanced Radiation Weapons, they can eradicate your populations while leaving the entire Oil producing Infrastructure Intact. We can just March in and pump all we want. :^)>

“They” make a regular habit of taking over other people’s holy sites. Why should I care if Mecca and Medina both wind up glowing green glass? We were in Mecca before they were anyway. After Badr, that is the first place Islam made “Judenfrie”.

I think America should have gone in to The Second World War a lot sooner. America listened to all of the wrong people, the Fords, the Sangers. Mindless sheep bleating for Peace and letting others sort out their own destinies.

We will never have peace with Islam, because fourteen hundred years ago they declared war against us all and state quite clearly that “no future prophets” will exist, meaning no Moslem can ever rescind Mohammed’s Jihad. Islam may become unfashionable when they get tired of living like Twisted Mockeries of the Amish and decide that progress has a place, but I am not prepared to wait for them to discover “The Age of Reason”. Their ideology has to be broken now.

If they think what they have now is “Occupation”, let them see what it is like to be truly occupied. Build walls throughout the middle east and bomb anything that threatens us in to oblivion. Let them fight with sticks and stones.

What a litany of Racism and cultural superiority, not to mention clearly uneducated conjecture and diatribe.

"No future prophets extst," clearly you know nothing of Islam, many Shi'a nad Sunni Muslims believe in the coming of the Mahdi, so WRONG.

Mockeries of the Amish, RACIST, and just because as a jew you're part of the privileged elite does not give you the right to look down on others.

Secondly, there are a myriad of non-palestinians who reject neo-liberalism as it is socially regressive.

Yours in hating Racist war-mongerers

Don't forget, the Muslims will have a lot more supporters to join them. I know I will join the Muslims, and help them.

:mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:


And when they are finished with their dhimmis they will cut off your head too.

Now does anyone who is not a servant of the worlds most Genocidal Ideology since Hitler have anything to contribute?

Israel developed its arsenal in case it had to eradicate the Soviet Union. America knows, that if you little bastards become too much of a problem, America can just let Israel finish off all of you, then you are all gone and America does not have to dirty its hands with your blood.

With Israel’s new Enhanced Radiation Weapons, they can eradicate your populations while leaving the entire Oil producing Infrastructure Intact. We can just March in and pump all we want. :^)>

A example please, liar, I mean this:


If you would kill Jews in order to appease Arabs, then why should I care when they cut off your head?

Enleighten the class and give us one example where I said that Jews should be killed to appease Arabs.



Seriously, if you deny us the right to defend ourselves, then you forfeit any protection you might have had, in the eyes of Justice.

Again a example please. Untill you have not given an example of this or make excuses, I will paste and copy this extremist and fascist example of your lies here
Be responsable and give examples or stop barking around your Zionist version of Nazism. You really learned a lot of them, Yeru Goebbels

Yeah, the Nazis were also neopagans. Islam has enough countries so leave us alone. Yeah, I am getting really tired of having to point this out to every weepy moany crystal waver that bounces his happy little self through here.
leave who alone????

go find your self a land where there is no one living there... and we will be the fist to support you, just dont claim our lands then expect arabs not to act... and just leave you there, especially when this land is ultra holy for Arab Jews, Arab Christians and Arab Muslims

Israel developed its arsenal in case it had to eradicate the Soviet Union. America knows, that if you little bastards become too much of a problem, America can just let Israel finish off all of you, then you are all gone and America does not have to dirty its hands with your blood.

With Israel’s new Enhanced Radiation Weapons, they can eradicate your populations while leaving the entire Oil producing Infrastructure Intact. We can just March in and pump all we want. :^)>

You are really not doing anything for your cause

My KARma will run over your DOGma.

I hope this "nuke Mecca" business never gets any farther than a few right wing nutcases. I would rather not have one of our major cities flattened in retaliation.


So wait until they have an Atom Bomb or Two, then they can flatten one of your cities “First”.

And when they are finished with their dhimmis they will cut off your head too.

Now does anyone who is not a servant of the worlds most Genocidal Ideology since Hitler have anything to contribute?


no comment......
:rolleyes:

Israel developed its arsenal in case it had to eradicate the Soviet Union. America knows, that if you little bastards become too much of a problem, America can just let Israel finish off all of you, then you are all gone and America does not have to dirty its hands with your blood.

With Israel’s new Enhanced Radiation Weapons, they can eradicate your populations while leaving the entire Oil producing Infrastructure Intact. We can just March in and pump all we want. :^)>You are getting close to flaming, and this probably qualifies as trolling.

Your posts are also getting increasingly vicious. You will find that not many people will agree with you in your desire to nuke/bomb an entire religion (over 1 billion people) into submission.

The ideological agression of some core Islamic teachings is undeniable. Killing all of them isn't the solution.

So wait until they have an Atom Bomb or Two, then they can flatten one of your cities “First”.
Well shit, shouldn't we just bomb every country in the world so they don't bomb us first?

When Yeru says that his freak club should cut my head of withouth any reason, I think that I can say that he must be obliged to have a zyklone B dinner, so people will be spared of his extremisme.

You know, the arabs lived in Israel 55 years ago, alongside native jews. The European jews are the ones trying to enforce two thousand year old claims here. There is a lot to debate here, but trying to make it sound like Palestinians are bringing up some arcane claim of right is just silly.

EDIT: oh, also, you are wrong about pretty much everything else in that post as well. "Aztlan" is just an expression of hispanic-American solidarity. Nobody in the mainstream has ever suggested returning the American west to Mexico. And there were Spanish speakers in all of these areas before there were Anglos.


Read a bit of La Raza and maybe a little about the Arab Riots under British Occupation and maybe about the decline of the Ottoman Empire and then we will talk yes?

Israel developed its arsenal in case it had to eradicate the Soviet Union. America knows, that if you little bastards become too much of a problem, America can just let Israel finish off all of you, then you are all gone and America does not have to dirty its hands with your blood.

With Israel’s new Enhanced Radiation Weapons, they can eradicate your populations while leaving the entire Oil producing Infrastructure Intact. We can just March in and pump all we want. :^)>
did you ever think about the Nuks destroying you too????
and how do you think .... you know what i wont answer that, i dont need to answer that, and you still didnt tell me how old are you????

because you are either quite educated for a six years old or your a 25 years retareded dude that escaped his room and is having fun on the hospitals PCs..

:D

where the hell do you get this boggus... arabs trying to claim russia??
india, ivory coast??? THAILAND???

IM TELLING YOU DUDE, im an arab and i never heard about anything like that shit in my life... hehehe
claiming thailand, hehe
well claiming israel makes sense, but russia which is 100s of miles away from the nearest points, thailand which is thousnads, ivory coast????

dude get a life.... you have a phobia with arabs....

soon you will be saying they are on your skin....
arabs are not fungus man :rolleyes:


Chechnya, Kashmir, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front. if these words are not understood by you then you are no informed enough about the subject. Read a Paper.

Read a bit of La Raza and maybe a little about the Arab Riots under British Occupation and maybe about the decline of the Ottoman Empire and then we will talk yes?
Hey, I live in America in a state that has one of the highest ratios of hispanics in the country. I'm sure there are some nutcases who want to return Texas and New Mexico to the old country. But then, there are some nutcases in Israel who think we can stop global terrorism by nuking Mecca and invading a quarter of the globe, but I don't think of this as the typical jewish veiwpoint.

Your other topics are a bit broad. Maybe you would care to give me the important points here. I'm sure they come down to "Arabs are bad bad bad".

Chechnya, Kashmir, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front. if these words are not understood by you then you are no informed enough about the subject. Read a Paper.

so pakistani are claiming a small part in india, and chechens are claiming independence, yet arabs are responsible for claiming russian and india?????

“Palestine” is just one small head of a big hydra. You continue to focus on this one head, neglecting all other aspects that put it in context. you have no good reason to do this, you simply refuse to recognize outside influences in favor of your preferred version of events. It is somehow important to you to believe that Israel is the aggressor and that all of Islam is the underdog, or you simply refuse to recognize that the rest of Islam exists, panicking of a splinter as a bolt is slowly twisted in to your brain.


You inventing context does not make it actuality.
Israel is the aggressor in the occupied territories.
You know this but think that muddying the waters will somehow
cause other people to doubt the truth.

Trust me it really doesn't work and just makes people think that you
and others like you are just demented and not worth talking to.


So instead of arguing your baseless position, you accuse me of hate and suggest I “seek help”. This is not a debate strategy that will you any points in Princeton. Perhaps Chomsky would be impressed, but that is saying little.


I do regularly argue my position and it is anything but baseless
your responses tend on the whole however to be about the
great moslem conspiracy to rule the world etc etc blah de blah
and that everyone who suggests it is wrong to kill people or humiliate
them or make them suffer is a nazi.
A definition just a tad at odds with everybody else's definition.
You have also spoken about wiping out moslems and nuking their
holy sites etc, or walling them up in concentration camps.
Hate speech by anyones definition.

If you got points at princeton it must have been on your licence
for speeding in the vicinity.

I doubt chomsky would be impressed I rather suspect if he looked in on this
thread he would roundly condemn anyone for stooping to argue with you.
I suspect he would rate it as being as pointless as arguing with holocaust
deniers. You are not putting forward any genuine arguments,
you're inventing "the protocols of the moslems" and wasting any time at all
with you just cheapens the lives lost, wasted and damaged
by those like you, both Jews and Moslems.


I maintain, that “Occupation” is derogatory. “Palestine” is not a country and the “Palestinians” are themselves not native. Israel occupies Israel and there is no “Occupation” because no one is being “Occupied”.

For a place to be occupied it does not have to be an internationally
recognized state in the first place, it just has to not be within the internationally recognized borders of the state doing the occupying

That would be Israel in this case.

yeah sure, and kill all the arabs and muslims living there too...

seriuosly how old are you :rolleyes:


I stopped counting birthdays a long time ago.

It is a fairly common matter of debate in Iran, about whether or not killing Moslems is an acceptable price for destroying large numbers of infidels. There were a fair number of Moslems in the Twin Towers after all. Then there is that whole passage about “Take not the Christians or Jews for friends, for they are friends of each other and whosoever takes them for a friend, he is of them and not of the faithful”.

So by that line, all of those Moslems who live in Israel as full citizens, join the IDF and accepting benefits after their service, they are all traitors to Islam and you as a Moslem are obligated to kill them too.

This thread has gone way too far. I'm off.

Before I go, I just want to remind you that Israel is nowhere near using nuclear weapons on anyone. The extremeist visions being trown about here are bad dreams. A step-by-step practical solution will take place between Israel and the Palestinians in the next several years, to achieve a two-state solution.

Yerushalayim, please return to reality. The rest of you, stop baiting him/her. Advocating genocide and killing is frowned upon on these boards.

Your other topics are a bit broad. Maybe you would care to give me the important points here. I'm sure they come down to "Arabs are bad bad bad".
Haven't noticed that he is the Jewish version of the worst nazi's? :rolleyes: One sollution, Zyklone B, just like he want's my head cut of but can't explain why, the kid is a retard.

Chechnya, Kashmir, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front. if these words are not understood by you then you are no informed enough about the subject. Read a Paper.

I agree that some Chechans want to establish an Islamic state in North Caucasus, Kashmir obviously and the phillipino MILF has always tried incursions in brunei and thailand. But they are organisations, just like the US is trying to occupy Iraq atm, I don't see a difference except maybe these
"terrorist" organisations probably have a legitamate claim to something that won't be recognised or maybe 100's of years of colonial oppression and theft that spurs them on.

Haven't noticed that he is the Jewish version of the worst nazi's? :rolleyes: One sollution, ****** b, just like he want's my head cut of but can't explain why, the kid is a retard.


geez that is the second time you've said this


Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Biking
Posts: 160 When Yeru says that his freak club should cut my head of withouth any reason, I think that I can say that he must be obliged to have a ******* *dinner, so people will be spared of his extremisme.

Last edited by Velo : Today at 12:53 AM.


The guy is definitely the equivelant of a nazi from everything he has been
saying in this thread. But he has stopped short of saying in relation
to any individual that action should be taken to kill them.

From his madness he has wished it on other people but not in terms
of him doing it or him suggesting that it should be done.


I hope someone has made a complaint to the mods
and I suggest you should withdraw those comments and apologize

You need to note that in his deranged imagination there is a conspiracy of
moslems who wish to wipe out all jews and take over the world
my reading of that post you refered to was not that his people should cut
your head off but that once you had served your purpose the moslems would do it.

Remember again he's a freaky deranged guy., but it was not suggesting
that you should be killed not in the sense you took it up to be nor in
the sense of the distasteful comments you have twice made

“Take not the Christians or Jews for friends, for they are friends of each other and whosoever takes them for a friend, he is of them and not of the faithful”.

.


whats your source of that????
the quran???

you really believe that islam says that????

Prophet muhamed said several times that christians and jews are to be treated with the highest respect, because (as we believe) are among the ones that god cares about, and backing up my information, in the early islamic dynasties, jews and christians use to flee to the muslims places, seeking freedom and respect from infedels that use to torture believers at that time....
so just cut the crap man, ur just racist against Arabs and muslims

I couldn't agree more while we're at it though we should kill the Jews because of the Jewish extremists and the Christians because of the Christian extremists...

You are insane


The Moderate Moslems only Moderately want to kill us. There is a matter of “Doctrine” here. As a neopagan you make up your beliefs as you go along and would not understand how doctrines work.

You see we have a book called the Torah. It is a fantastic book if you can understand it. It forms the core of our doctrines. On three scrolls, were written with every letter exactly placed, the first five Books of Moses. On these pages is a brief history of everything we knew up to about three thousand years ago, including exactly what the borders of our country are. After that we wrote some more history and opinion filled books to go with it. Then Roman pagans, a lot like you, decided that our refusal to pay taxes with coins having their Gods on them warranted destroying our Country, but they got what was coming to them. A small Jewish movement became Christianity and Christianity put an end to the Roman ways.

Hitler Described that as a “Jewish Curse”, to “Burden Aryans with a Conscience” and I am sure you feel the same way.

Just as we have our doctrines, Christians also have doctrines. Pacifism being a big one. Trusting in a higher power to right wrongs after death is also big. So is forgiveness.

Then there is Islamic Doctrine. Their doctrine basically requires Polytheists and Pagans such as yourself be exterminated as the to priority, followed by my people and atheists. Christians of course are to them only dupes and should only be enslaved.

The problem is not the extremists, but the doctrine, so the “Moderates” only “Moderately” want t do these things. I still can not allow them to move forward with this. Nor can I be like a Christian and forgive those who would assist them, without amends being made.

whats your source of that????
the quran???

you really believe that islam says that????

Prophet muhamed said several times that christians and jews are to be treated with the highest respect, because (as we believe) are among the ones that god cares about, and backing up my information, in the early islamic dynasties, jews and christians use to flee to the muslims places, seeking freedom and respect from infedels that use to torture believers at that time....
so just cut the crap man, ur just racist against Arabs and muslims


one last thing, my best friend is a christian, and my X was a christian too, so seriously cut the crap

geez that is the second time you've said this



The guy is definitely the equivelant of a nazi from everything he has been
saying in this thread. But he has stopped short of saying in relation
to any individual that action should be taken to kill them.

From his madness he has wished it on other people but not in terms
of him doing it or him suggesting that it should be done.


I hope someone has made a complaint to the mods
and I suggest you should withdraw those comments and apologize
Yeah Yeru is indeed the equivelant of a nazi, I should ask modeation. Reading again that he wants my head cut of (Jewish Fatwa?) without explaining why, I should.

Yeah Yeru is indeed the equivelant of a nazi, I should ask modeation. Reading again that he wants my head cut of (Jewish Fatwa?) without explaining why, I should.

sorry ive edited it now but it was obviously too late

he didnt as far as i read it call for your head to be chopped off

but in his imaginary world where there is a moslem conspiracy
i think he was suggesting that when you have server their purpose and
brought about the genocide of the jewish people
they would turn on you and cut your head off.

Like I said he is nutso but i dont think he was calling for your death

You didn't beat Nazi Germany. The Allies did. And they didn't push for the complete extinction of the German people either, whereas you're eager to get off on sending each and every Muslim, man woman or child into camps. Classic abuse pattern here; get abused, end up wanting to abuse. And I bet you weren't even born when the Holocaust took place.

And if you think technological superiority is everything, here's some geography lesson for you. Vietnam. Afghanistan. Iraq. The insurgents were poorly armed and organized compared to the opposing force but they still managed to inflict significant casualties. Take that observation, and multiply it by the support of modernizing, fairly technologicaly advanced Arab nations like Qatar should Israel be stupid enough to nuke Mecca. And add to that as mentioned a global OPEC embargo against Israel and America if it decided to condone the nuking.

Like I said, the jihadists trying to drive you into the sea are just a fraction of a vast population. Yamamoto didn't want to wake a sleeping giant by bombing Pearl Harbor, and you won't believe how huge this giant called Islam is if you do wake it up by nuking Mecca.

I wouldn't be surprised if the government of both America and Israel are keeping tabs on you right now so you don't get into any position where you can possibly achieve your wet dream of Muslim Genocide.

:rolleyes:


I have no intention to eradicate all Arabs, the ones who are not Moslems or reject their Genocidal Ideology, like Ibn Warraq, do not have to die. I think many will choose a better way when they see how easily we can eradicate the core of their global conquest.

Japan Learned from only Two Atomic Bombs. Mecca and Medina would make a good parallel. Of course, none of this will be necessary if they just left us alone on our tiny little country and were content with just ruling more land than the Soviets ever did.

If America just nuked Vietnam, do you think that war would have gone differently? Exclude the prospect of Russia joining in. Trust me, it is in their best interests to ignore us nuking Mecca. They will enjoy the free hand it gives them in dealing with Chechnya.

I hope someone has made a complaint to the mods
and I suggest you should withdraw those comments and apologize



Still waiting for his appologizes on the dead wish. Since he will never, it is my right to advise him that Zyklone B diet.Doesn 't he say "an eye for an eye", he want's my dead and attacked me (read again), I replie, simple as that.

I have no intention to eradicate all Arabs, the ones who are not Moslems or reject their Genocidal Ideology, like Ibn Warraq, do not have to die. I think many will choose a better way when they see how easily we can eradicate the core of their global conquest.

Japan Learned from only Two Atomic Bombs. Mecca and Medina would make a good parallel. Of course, none of this will be necessary if they just left us alone on our tiny little country and were content with just ruling more land than the Soviets ever did.

If America just nuked Vietnam, do you think that war would have gone differently? Exclude the prospect of Russia joining in. Trust me, it is in their best interests to ignore us nuking Mecca. They will enjoy the free hand it gives them in dealing with Chechnya.


Oh do shut up

you're advocating mass murder and that is unacceptable.

Stop taking whatever drugs you take and start taking the ones you've been prescribed.

don't bother to reply to me though because you are now being ignored

You're way off the deep end, dude. This isn't going to happen. No-one wants to take on Islam as a religion...it is their despotic regimes that need attention...and not inthe way you imply. Read my reply to you "nuke mecca" idea. Military capability=/=strategic, economic, social advantage, and it DEFINATELY does not equal peace.


Ideological Wars, can not be won by attacking countries or their leaders. The ideology has to be defeated. I would honestly be content to utilize containment, but that would have to be a hard containment. We will have to stop countries like Iran from becoming nuclear and as soon as something happens to that Communist in Pakistan, religious fundamentalists are going to take over and take over his nuclear arsenal.

There is no way to avoid World War III. I maintain, that we have to fight the war, while it is still in our favor.

I have no intention to eradicate all Arabs, the ones who are not Moslems or reject their Genocidal Ideology, like Ibn Warraq, do not have to die. I think many will choose a better way when they see how easily we can eradicate the core of their global conquest.

Japan Learned from only Two Atomic Bombs. Mecca and Medina would make a good parallel. Of course, none of this will be necessary if they just left us alone on our tiny little country and were content with just ruling more land than the Soviets ever did.

If America just nuked Vietnam, do you think that war would have gone differently? Exclude the prospect of Russia joining in. Trust me, it is in their best interests to ignore us nuking Mecca. They will enjoy the free hand it gives them in dealing with Chechnya.

you know something, i use to respect the way israelis thought, (well in a way)

now, after hearing your thoughts
i just wish i could die without meeting any....

Enleighten the class and give us one example where I said that Jews should be killed to appease Arabs.

Again a example please. Untill you have not given an example of this or make excuses, I will paste and copy this extremist and fascist example of your lies here
Be responsable and give examples or stop barking around your Zionist version of Nazism. You really learned a lot of them, Yeru Goebbels


Now when did argue on behalf of these people? I am sorry but I do not wish to dig through four hundred posts to find the one where you did, but I think deep down we all know what side you are on.


http://www.malas-noticias.com.ar/Hizbollah%20nazi%202.JPG

guys i say we just ignor yeru, and stop this whole bullcrap of killing 1.3 billion muslims, and 30 million non muslim arabs...

lets now try to find a good reasonable solution for the situation in the middle east..
can we please do that...

Now when did argue on behalf of these people? I am sorry but I do not wish to dig through four hundred posts to find the one where you did, but I think deep down we all know what side you are on.


http://www.malas-noticias.com.ar/Hizbollah%20nazi%202.JPG
enleighten the class and dig, wich side am I? Enleighten my Jewish friends in Antwerp (my place) to. They see you as a extemist, not as a rolemodel of democratic jew but as somekind of monster.The zyklone B part was a reply to your death wish, you're wrong.

you know something, i use to respect the way israelis thought, (well in a way)

now, after hearing your thoughts
i just wish i could die without meeting any....

Don't assume every Israeli is a Zionist Death Cultist like he is, it's the same as him assuming every Muslim is a Jihadist.

What a litany of Racism and cultural superiority, not to mention clearly uneducated conjecture and diatribe.

"No future prophets extst," clearly you know nothing of Islam, many Shi'a nad Sunni Muslims believe in the coming of the Mahdi, so WRONG.

Mockeries of the Amish, RACIST, and just because as a jew you're part of the privileged elite does not give you the right to look down on others.

Secondly, there are a myriad of non-palestinians who reject neo-liberalism as it is socially regressive.

Yours in hating Racist war-mongerers


Wow I am a member of the privileged elite. Never knew that thinking like yours was any different than any other racism. Perhaps you would like to tell us all about how progressive the Amish are now?

I would not call the resurrection of just one holy man a Prophet, any more than resurrecting Christ wold make him a new Prophet. you do realize that this myth is an explanation for exactly how Christians will eventually be disposed of?

Than again, as a Pagan you probably like the idea of killing Christians. All those wicked evil Christians who knock on your door and try to give you bibles, shame on them.

http://www.malas-noticias.com.ar/Hizbollah%20nazi%202.JPG


hahahahaa, those are semites. Just like Arabs and Jews are both semite.Kid your'e even dumber then i thought.

Don't assume every Israeli is a Zionist Death Cultist like he is, it's the same as him assuming every Muslim is a Jihadist.

of coures im not
but right now i really dont wanna meet with any israeli, not that i think they are murderers, but because i feal insulted when i hear someone think my whole ethnic group and my whole religion should be wiped out of the face of the earth....how would any if you feal???

leave who alone????

go find your self a land where there is no one living there... and we will be the fist to support you, just dont claim our lands then expect arabs not to act... and just leave you there, especially when this land is ultra holy for Arab Jews, Arab Christians and Arab Muslims


Go find yourself a country where there are nothing but Russian school children to murder, wait, you did. That would be that other “Ancient homeland since time immemorial” Chechnya.

You have enough homelands Arab. Pick one and leave ours alone.

of coures im not
but right now i really dont wanna meet with any israeli, not that i think they are murderers, but because i feal insulted when i hear someone think my whole ethnic group and my whole religion should be wiped out of the face of the earth....how would any if you feal???

Well for starters, you can feel glad that the Israeli government has enough common sense to see that this fruitcake is no position of political power.

:D

When Yeru says that his freak club should cut my head of withouth any reason, I think that I can say that he must be obliged to have a zyklone B dinner, so people will be spared of his extremisme.


The Moslems are your freak club, not mine.

I will not react to the Zyklon B comment.

You are getting close to flaming, and this probably qualifies as trolling.

Your posts are also getting increasingly vicious. You will find that not many people will agree with you in your desire to nuke/bomb an entire religion (over 1 billion people) into submission.

The ideological agression of some core Islamic teachings is undeniable. Killing all of them isn't the solution.


As long as they work to destroy us, we have a right to defend ourselves.

did you ever think about the Nuks destroying you too????
and how do you think .... you know what i wont answer that, i dont need to answer that, and you still didnt tell me how old are you????

because you are either quite educated for a six years old or your a 25 years retareded dude that escaped his room and is having fun on the hospitals PCs..


I am very concerned with the prospect of “Nukes Destroying Us”. This is why I wish to keep them out of your hands, lest you prove a suicide bomber on a citywide scale.

As long as they work to destroy us, we have a right to defend ourselves.

Defending yourself by pre-emptively nuking an entire civilization out of existence? Wow, you really are full of it.

Are you sure you're not Baruch Goldstein or Yigal Amir?

Go find yourself a country where there are nothing but Russian school children to murder, wait, you did. That would be that other “Ancient homeland since time immemorial” Chechnya.

You have enough homelands Arab. Pick one and leave ours alone.

why should i leave my country, it has been there before Judaism was ever established. Egypt, Phonecia, Babylon, Assyria, Carthage, Askum, Kush, Filistin(Palistine)...get your self a piece of land in the pacific and build your self as many settelments as you want, but you aint doin that on MY land...

And by the way im not a chechian.... im an ARAB, try to pronounce it youll find that they are two different words,
if im using your common sense (which i doubt is there), i would call french nazis, just because nazi were christians, but guess what fella it doesnt work that way, religion is something and a national identity is a whole other thing, but you wouldnt knw would you, your identity got lost when you parents left there country and tried to make an identity of their own in palestine...

Well for starters, you can feel glad that the Israeli government has enough common sense to see that this fruitcake is no position of political power.

:D


I think that it is time to stop being so tollerant to newcommer extremists like Yeru. He flaimed lots of respected old posters like yourself and many others here that never flaimed him. Guess it is time to go for moderation and a banning. This constant flaiming and his racisme is over the top now.

As long as they work to destroy us, we have a right to defend ourselves.

True you do, but when the policy becomes we must destory them in order to save us you just put yourself in the position of the ones who seek to destroy you. Both sides will suffer and what do you gain, only death and destruction. Is that really worth it?

Hey, I live in America in a state that has one of the highest ratios of hispanics in the country. I'm sure there are some nutcases who want to return Texas and New Mexico to the old country. But then, there are some nutcases in Israel who think we can stop global terrorism by nuking Mecca and invading a quarter of the globe, but I don't think of this as the typical jewish veiwpoint.

Your other topics are a bit broad. Maybe you would care to give me the important points here. I'm sure they come down to "Arabs are bad bad bad".


Not every Hispanic is a member of La Raza. Moslems are trying to recruit Hispanics however. “The Dirty Bomber” for example was one of them.

Now Mexico is no where near as bad as Syria. If they convert to Islam however, they will be blowing themselves up in American streets and “Aztlan” will become their focal point, as opposed to just bringing down minimum wages so they can send the money back to Mexico.

I maintain, that any level of military force required to prevent any Islamic State from acquiring the weapons the need to destroy us, is acceptable.

Not every Hispanic is a member of La Raza. Moslems are trying to recruit Hispanics however. “The Dirty Bomber” for example was one of them.

Now Mexico is no where near as bad as Syria. If they convert to Islam however, they will be blowing themselves up in American streets and “Aztlan” will become their focal point, as opposed to just bringing down minimum wages so they can send the money back to Mexico.

I maintain, that any level of military force required to prevent any Islamic State from acquiring the weapons the need to destroy us, is acceptable.

So in order to stop destruction we must destroy. Have we as a species sunk so low?

The Moslems are your freak club, not mine.

I will not react to the Zyklon B comment.

Yeru, you're getting increasingly hostile and increasingly derogatory. Callingly someone "you Arab" and accusing them of being a terrorist when you don't even know who they are hints at a serious bigotry problem of yours, and it reflects incredibly badly on who you are as a person. Same goes for calling an entire religion a freak club. So stop it. Now.

so pakistani are claiming a small part in india, and chechens are claiming independence, yet arabs are responsible for claiming russian and india?????


You guys get around, comes from being Nomads you know. There were ten of you in that school, almost as many as there were Chechens. India is the same.

http://top.rbc.ru/english/index.shtml?/news/english/2002/05/21/21125834_bod.shtml

You guys get around, comes from being Nomads you know. There were ten of you in that school, almost as many as there were Chechens. India is the same.

http://top.rbc.ru/english/index.shtml?/news/english/2002/05/21/21125834_bod.shtml
10 of us????
who do you mean by us???
im not a chechian rebel, and not even thinking of joining, but im thinking of starting an anti-yeru shalayim organization, so becarefull, walking out of your house

muahahahahahaha

lmao

You inventing context does not make it actuality.
Israel is the aggressor in the occupied territories.
You know this but think that muddying the waters will somehow
cause other people to doubt the truth.

Trust me it really doesn't work and just makes people think that you
and others like you are just demented and not worth talking to.



I do regularly argue my position and it is anything but baseless
your responses tend on the whole however to be about the
great moslem conspiracy to rule the world etc etc blah de blah
and that everyone who suggests it is wrong to kill people or humiliate
them or make them suffer is a nazi.
A definition just a tad at odds with everybody else's definition.
You have also spoken about wiping out moslems and nuking their
holy sites etc, or walling them up in concentration camps.
Hate speech by anyones definition.

If you got points at princeton it must have been on your licence
for speeding in the vicinity.

I doubt chomsky would be impressed I rather suspect if he looked in on this
thread he would roundly condemn anyone for stooping to argue with you.
I suspect he would rate it as being as pointless as arguing with holocaust
deniers. You are not putting forward any genuine arguments,
you're inventing "the protocols of the moslems" and wasting any time at all
with you just cheapens the lives lost, wasted and damaged
by those like you, both Jews and Moslems.



For a place to be occupied it does not have to be an internationally
recognized state in the first place, it just has to not be within the internationally recognized borders of the state doing the occupying

That would be Israel in this case.


You say a lot of things about Israel, but are still not addressing the big picture. Why not demonstrate a lack of connection between this group of Arab Squatters seeking “Their ancient since time immemorial” and the others?

Or maybe you would like to sit there and continue to insist that pointing out the contents of the Islamic Doctrines is “Hate Speech” while you remain entirely ignorant of them?

I maintain my position, that Israel has a right to defend itself and your slanders are simply derogatory and blood libel.

Chomsky, is oblivious to reality but unlike you some of what he says is well written slander and blood libel. Possibly because he is Zondercommando. The worst kind of Islamist Sympathizer.

No wonder you like him.
You say a lot of things about Israel, but are still not addressing the big picture. Why not demonstrate a lack of connection between this group of Arab Squatters seeking “Their ancient since time immemorial” and the others?

Or maybe you would like to sit there and continue to insist that pointing out the contents of the Islamic Doctrines is “Hate Speech” while you remain entirely ignorant of them?

I maintain my position, that Israel has a right to defend itself and your slanders are simply derogatory and blood libel.

Chomsky, is oblivious to reality but unlike you some of what he says is well written slander and blood libel. Possibly because he is Zondercommando. The worst kind of Islamist Sympathizer.

No wonder you like him.

You guys get around, comes from being Nomads you know. There were ten of you in that school, almost as many as there were Chechens. India is the same.

http://top.rbc.ru/english/index.shtml?/news/english/2002/05/21/21125834_bod.shtml
by the way im an egyptian, we were building temples and pyramids when you were still hunting and gathering and wrapping a beast on you self to stay warm, and getting scared from fire.... so stop the crap of trying to show how uncivilized arabs are, because arabs invented it, plus everyone in this thread knows the arab civilization and its ancient 7000 years old roots....

so im no nomads dude

I agree that some Chechans want to establish an Islamic state in North Caucasus, Kashmir obviously and the phillipino MILF has always tried incursions in brunei and thailand. But they are organisations, just like the US is trying to occupy Iraq atm, I don't see a difference except maybe these
"terrorist" organisations probably have a legitamate claim to something that won't be recognised or maybe 100's of years of colonial oppression and theft that spurs them on.


Well you are moving in the right direction. You recognize that the problem is more widespread than Israel and “Palestinians”. But you do not understand the scale yet.

These organizations, enjoy more popular support at home than the American war in Iraq. Their governments, more often than not, execute those who dissent. We do not, as exemplified by all of the people screaming on our radios and televisions about how our government is stopping them from speaking on radio and television.

What is more, you have to understand the depth of the histories and in some cases, their lack of depth. Chechens, like Palestinians, like The Ivory Coast Rebels, have not been there very long and in some cases are not the same people who were supposedly displaced. The man from Pakistan fighting in Chechnya is not really Chechen, just as the Syrian fighting as a “Palestinian” is not really Palestinian.

Ireland has some claim to Northern Ireland, they are Irish after all. “Palestinian in Spirit” does not however cut it.

Sure, Israelis are immigrants, but they had a good reason to immigrate.

Well you are moving in the right direction. You recognize that the problem is more widespread than Israel and “Palestinians”. But you do not understand the scale yet.

These organizations, enjoy more popular support at home than the American war in Iraq. Their governments, more often than not, execute those who dissent. We do not, as exemplified by all of the people screaming on our radios and televisions about how our government is stopping them from speaking on radio and television.

What is more, you have to understand the depth of the histories and in some cases, their lack of depth. Chechens, like Palestinians, like The Ivory Coast Rebels, have not been there very long and in some cases are not the same people who were supposedly displaced. The man from Pakistan fighting in Chechnya is not really Chechen, just as the Syrian fighting as a “Palestinian” is not really Palestinian.

Ireland has some claim to Northern Ireland, they are Irish after all. “Palestinian in Spirit” does not however cut it.

Sure, Israelis are immigrants, but they had a good reason to immigrate.
actually they had 2 reasons
1: go home after being kicked out 3000 years ago, (allthou there are arab jews living there, which are the original palistinians)
second reason: to make arabs live in constance wars

whats your source of that????
the quran???

you really believe that islam says that????

Prophet muhamed said several times that christians and jews are to be treated with the highest respect, because (as we believe) are among the ones that god cares about, and backing up my information, in the early islamic dynasties, jews and christians use to flee to the muslims places, seeking freedom and respect from infedels that use to torture believers at that time....
so just cut the crap man, ur just racist against Arabs and muslims



Al Ma’idah Sura 5.51, “Relations of Moslems with enemies”. It is good that a Jew knows your religion better than you do. If only you forget the rest of that Jihad garbage and become a fine upstanding atheist like Ibn Warraq.

The Moslems are your freak club, not mine.


I just have one question for you, do you really want Islam gone, kaput, extinct, destroyed anyway nessecary?

Still waiting for his appologizes on the dead wish. Since he will never, it is my right to advise him that Zyklone B diet.Doesn 't he say "an eye for an eye", he want's my dead and attacked me (read again), I replie, simple as that.


You wish to allow the Arabs to kill us, Hitler also enlisted them to kill us. it gives me some satisfaction to know that your alliance with them is built on their deceptions and that they will stab you in the back.

Their religion does obligate them to eventually eradicate all who do not accept submission to them and eventually eradicate even most that do.

I am confident in the ability of my people to survive. We have the only complete missile defense system and second strike capability and we are scattered, able to always rebuild. Such can not be said for our enemies. As the words of Mohammed to the Arabs, “Go forth in boldness”, they shall “Come forth in boldness” and be destroyed; and we will be right to have done so in our own defense.

Al Ma’idah Sura 5.51, “Relations of Moslems with enemies”. It is good that a Jew knows your religion better than you do. If only you forget the rest of that Jihad garbage and become a fine upstanding atheist like Ibn Warraq.
your full of shit man, i just opened the quran on the page you said , and it sais, "you see those who have sickness in there hearts, and do not thank thee, then seek for thy lord to heal, and thy lord heals."

so how the hell does it mean jews and christians are infidels?????

just shut the F*ck up man ....

and from now on ill be ignoring your comments..
maybe instead of saying some bullshit wrong crap about islam, maybe you should go and read your books for a change, maybe god will heal you from your sickness in your head

you know something, i use to respect the way israelis thought, (well in a way)

now, after hearing your thoughts
i just wish i could die without meeting any....


Fear not, for we shall use Missiles. Clever, Ingenious Missiles, the only Missiles in the world with a “Hover” function so they can fly in circles and watch for someone to open a door or window so they can zoom in.

wat the tite jews

i mean the jewish boy asks his dad for 50p, the dad goes 30p, y do u need 20p for, wat use is 10p in this world, well son, wheres my 10p?

http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/am/publish/aqsq_mosque_0.shtml

guys go on this site to see what i mean by israeli violations in palestine

your full of shit man, i just opened the quran on the page you said , and it sais, "you see those who have sickness in there hearts, and do not thank thee, then seek for thy lord to heal, and thy lord heals."

so how the hell does it mean jews and christians are infidels?????

just shut the F*ck up man ....

and from now on ill be ignoring your comments..
maybe instead of saying some bullshit wrong crap about islam, maybe you should go and read your books for a change, maybe god will heal you from your sickness in your head

Actually I believe it does say that, put 5:51 in the Verse search. Not saying it's right, but

http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/

enleighten the class and dig, wich side am I? Enleighten my Jewish friends in Antwerp (my place) to. They see you as a extemist, not as a rolemodel of democratic jew but as somekind of monster.The zyklone B part was a reply to your death wish, you're wrong.


What was it, Eichmann who claimed to have had Jewish friends? Why would any self respecting want a friend who “only” wants to sacrifice another third of the Jewish people to this?

http://www.brotherhoodofthelamb.com/ArabNaziSalute.jpg

I bet the Zyklon B jokes are a big hit with them too.

hahahahaa, those are semites. Just like Arabs and Jews are both semite.Kid your'e even dumber then i thought.


I was hoping to avoid people who play stupid word games to excuse Genocide.

remember ppl

the jews bombed the world trade centre, and are getting rich, while others die!

Vishnu007']remember ppl

the jews bombed the world trade centre, and are getting rich, while others die!

Puppet ftw yo. :rolleyes:

of coures im not
but right now i really dont wanna meet with any israeli, not that i think they are murderers, but because i feal insulted when i hear someone think my whole ethnic group and my whole religion should be wiped out of the face of the earth....how would any if you feal???


I can tell you how I do feel every time I read the Koran.

Exactly the same way I feel when I see a Turk reading Mein Kampf.

Recognize the facts, “Moderate Moslems” are no different than “Moderate Nazis”, because the beliefs are functionally equivalent.

I do think my words are cracking your faith. You know that Israel is capable of destroying Mecca. You know Allah will not stop us if we ever launch. Be glad we are moral and civilized, because any time in the past twenty years we could have destroyed you all if we were so inclined. We spared you, while your people would not have spared us.

I was hoping to avoid people who play stupid word games to excuse Genocide.

You mean "excuse" genocide against Israelis. You're perfectly fine with making soap out of Muslims.

:rolleyes:

Actually I believe it does say that, put 5:51 in the Verse search. Not saying it's right, but

http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/


holyshit
its translating the arabic veres into different things in english
BRB guys... some one will have his site shut....

lets have sum jewish jokes

wats the difference between a jew n a pizza?

a pizza doesn't scream in the oven!

plz add sum more ppl

I can tell you how I do feel every time I read the Koran.

Exactly the same way I feel when I see a Turk reading Mein Kampf.

Recognize the facts, “Moderate Moslems” are no different than “Moderate Nazis”, because the beliefs are functionally equivalent.

I do think my words are cracking your faith. You know that Israel is capable of destroying Mecca. You know Allah will not stop us if we ever launch. Be glad we are moral and civilized, because any time in the past twenty years we could have destroyed you all if we were so inclined. We spared you, while your people would not have spared us.

Unless it's justified (which I highly doubt the annhilation a nuke causes is) the rest of the world will. Nuking anyone =! not good no matter what. It just brings us closer to our eventual destruction.

why should i leave my country, it has been there before Judaism was ever established. Egypt, Phonecia, Babylon, Assyria, Carthage, Askum, Kush, Filistin(Palistine)...get your self a piece of land in the pacific and build your self as many settelments as you want, but you aint doin that on MY land...

And by the way im not a chechian.... im an ARAB, try to pronounce it youll find that they are two different words,
if im using your common sense (which i doubt is there), i would call french nazis, just because nazi were christians, but guess what fella it doesnt work that way, religion is something and a national identity is a whole other thing, but you wouldnt knw would you, your identity got lost when you parents left there country and tried to make an identity of their own in palestine...


Nazis were Pagans who saw Christianity as a Jewish Invention, sort of like how Moslems see us.

Arab, Chechen, it is your beliefs that make you evil, not the color of your skin. Besides, there were Ten Arabs in that building, shooting Russian School children. They traveled a long way, to fight that war. There are very many Arabs claiming to be Chechen today.

The “Palestinians” should have stayed with their parents in Jordan. You too. It will be far better than being cooped up in an Israeli Prison.

True you do, but when the policy becomes we must destory them in order to save us you just put yourself in the position of the ones who seek to destroy you. Both sides will suffer and what do you gain, only death and destruction. Is that really worth it?


Tell you what, you can convince them all to convert to the Ba’Hai religion and maybe this conflict can be resolved. Anything else is not going to be workable. Moslems Can Not Live In Peace With Us. Their Religion Forbids It.

holyshit
its translating the arabic veres into different things in english
BRB guys... some one will have his site shut....

oops i was reading verse 5:52....

my mistake....
but yet, it has nothing to do with killing jews and christians, nor calling them infidels...

I do think my words are cracking your faith. You know that Israel is capable of destroying Mecca. You know Allah will not stop us if we ever launch. Be glad we are moral and civilized, because any time in the past twenty years we could have destroyed you all if we were so inclined. We spared you, while your people would not have spared us.

The only faith your words would crack would be the ones in Judaism not being a psychotic imperialist dogma no different than Christianity or Islam as you claim it to be.

And what's so moral and civilized about threatening to nuke a holy site and exterminate an entire ethnic group? Then again you support the Serbs and sympathize with them so no surprise there. The only Serb casualty of note was Monica Seles during a tennis match (STEFFI!!! -stab stab stab-).

Vishnu007']lets have sum jewish jokes

wats the difference between a jew n a pizza?

a pizza doesn't scream in the oven!

plz add sum more ppl


sum jokes ppl plz

these r funny, who cares about the stinky jews

Nazis were Pagans who saw Christianity as a Jewish Invention, sort of like how Moslems see us.

Arab, Chechen, it is your beliefs that make you evil, not the color of your skin. Besides, there were Ten Arabs in that building, shooting Russian School children. They traveled a long way, to fight that war. There are very many Arabs claiming to be Chechen today.

The “Palestinians” should have stayed with their parents in Jordan. You too. It will be far better than being cooped up in an Israeli Prison.

so you are still talking about the mini minorities of arabs, fanatics, just like taliban and others... here in the arab states, we call them infidels, because they kill innocent people in the name of islam....

and palistinians are not jordanians, study a map dude....
and if so, was palistine uninhabitat befor zionists came????
who lived there???

your full of shit man, i just opened the quran on the page you said , and it sais, "you see those who have sickness in there hearts, and do not thank thee, then seek for thy lord to heal, and thy lord heals."

so how the hell does it mean jews and christians are infidels?????

just shut the F*ck up man ....

and from now on ill be ignoring your comments..
maybe instead of saying some bullshit wrong crap about islam, maybe you should go and read your books for a change, maybe god will heal you from your sickness in your head

holyshit
its translating the arabic veres into different things in english
BRB guys... some one will have his site shut....

:p ROFLMAO! Man somebody is completely lying their ass off! Important lesson kids: NEVER trust something you read from a random internet site. This is why among scholars there is such a thing as peer review. lol

AL, Good luck with turning off that stupidity faucet.

Vishnu007']sum jokes ppl plz

these r funny, who cares about the stinky jews

Well obviously you do Junior, since you're bothering to post anti-Jewish jokes.

:rolleyes:

Yeru, you're getting increasingly hostile and increasingly derogatory. Callingly someone "you Arab" and accusing them of being a terrorist when you don't even know who they are hints at a serious bigotry problem of yours, and it reflects incredibly badly on who you are as a person. Same goes for calling an entire religion a freak club. So stop it. Now.


Please read the posts I am responding to before you accuse me of these things. If you need to putting perspective, pretend they are using your name instead of mine.

Tell you what, you can convince them all to convert to the Ba’Hai religion and maybe this conflict can be resolved. Anything else is not going to be workable. Moslems Can Not Live In Peace With Us. Their Religion Forbids It.

So what destroy them in order to prevent your destruction? If they can't have peace I can understand you defending yourselves against them, but the moment you try to destroy them you become what you hate. Do you want that?

10 of us????
who do you mean by us???
im not a chechian rebel, and not even thinking of joining, but im thinking of starting an anti-yeru shalayim organization, so becarefull, walking out of your house

muahahahahahaha

lmao


The Ten Arabs who traveled to Chechnya and then joined the Chechens in their war against Russia, then shot three hundred Russian School Children. “Read a Newspaper”. Not “The Arab News” either. That is a tabloid, I know because I can read it too.

You already have an Anti-Yerushalayim organization, it is called the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. You obviously know little of Hebrew. Should I try posting to you in Turkish or Arabic?

I don't have sufficient information as to wether the withdrawl of Israeli settlers who had literally made the Gaza strip liveable is a good thing or not. ask me again in a few years.

my whole take on this palestine/Israel thing is based on history.

It all goes back to an inheritance dispute thousands of years ago. that's why the Muslims and Jews hate each other. after WW2, many survivors of the holocoust were given their own nation by the British empire as an act of mercy. and the muslims immediately attacked the new nation of Israel. it was during these years of constant war that the small nation proved itself in my eyes to be superior to all it's neighbors. they were beste on all sides, armed with whatever they could get for cheap. hell, they even used BF109s and Mauser 98Ks. one thing about the Israelis, they're resourceful. they took Grant tanks and made them into excellent tanks. they used shermans against T72s, and won. most importantly, they managed to drive off their enemies time and again, even gaining ground, often times with no help at all. this nation which is about the same size as rhode Island has stood alone against an entire region. for that i respect them, and feel that they deserve every centimeter of land they can hold on to. the palestinians, however, have never really had a nation in that area, let alone having the capitol in Jerusilem. the only people who have ever had a nation encompasing the area of israel, are the Israelis. i feel that the only reason the palestinians want Israel, is because the Israelis own it.

The Gaza settlers represented about 3% of the total settlers, keep in mind a lot of them be rehouse to West Bank, and a lot more larger settlements are being built in the West Bank anyway, so that will dwarf it in time.

So what destroy them in order to prevent your destruction? If they can't have peace I can understand you defending yourselves against them, but the moment you try to destroy them you become what you hate. Do you want that?
hey hey hey... so all of a sudden Arabs are peace breakers???
when did WE break it, was that in 1956 when israel broke it with france and britian, or in 1967 when they attacked for N0 reason, or was that in 1973 when they were about to break it untill the egyptian president called for peace?????
and yet, 3 egyptian soldeiers were killed by israeli gunmen this year, and four others last year.....

The Ten Arabs who traveled to Chechnya and then joined the Chechens in their war against Russia, then shot three hundred Russian School Children. “Read a Newspaper”. Not “The Arab News” either. That is a tabloid, I know because I can read it too.

You already have an Anti-Yerushalayim organization, it is called the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. You obviously know little of Hebrew. Should I try posting to you in Turkish or Arabic?
i know alittle hebrew

like kes emak
and i know how to count from 1-10
and say yes... no...
and a few words...

hey hey hey... so all of a sudden Arabs are peace breakers???
when did WE break it, was that in 1956 when israel broke it with france and britian, or in 1967 when they attacked for N0 reason, or was that in 1973 when they were about to break it untill the egyptian president called for peace?????
and yet, 3 egyptian soldeiers were killed by israeli gunmen this year, and four others last year.....

No, I never said Arabs are peace breakers. All I'm saying is that Isreal has every right to defend note the DEFEND itself against attacks. But the moment they try to destroy arabs/islam because it's the only way they will survive, they become what they hate.

Well obviously you do Junior, since you're bothering to post anti-Jewish jokes.

:rolleyes:


well sorry for putting a rain cloud over ur little camp fire...jus havin sum fun, its not my fault every hates the jews - i mean they killed Jesus, The Son of GOD!, no wonder there is so many jokes

see....

Vishnu007]well sorry for putting a rain cloud over ur little camp fire...jus havin sum fun, its not my fault every hates the jews - i mean they killed Jesus, The Son of GOD!, no wonder there is so many jokes

I reiterate

Puppet ftw yo. :rolleyes:

by the way im an egyptian, we were building temples and pyramids when you were still hunting and gathering and wrapping a beast on you self to stay warm, and getting scared from fire.... so stop the crap of trying to show how uncivilized arabs are, because arabs invented it, plus everyone in this thread knows the arab civilization and its ancient 7000 years old roots....

so im no nomads dude


There are Arabs and there are Egyptians. If you are an Egyptian then you are not an Arab, unless you are one of the Arabized Egyptians, that is one o the Arabs that swarmed in and overran Egypt.

So are you an Egyptian who is descended from those immoral individuals who converted to Islam or an Arab that swarmed in?

In any event, our culture only slightly postdates Egypt and made many advances beyond it. After all, we came in to Egypt during a time of starvation in Canaan. When we left, we left you to your decline. No matter, regardless of how many times you attack us and we defeat you, we are forbidden by the Torah from ever occupying Egypt.

Vishnu007']well sorry for putting a rain cloud over ur little camp fire...jus havin sum fun, its not my fault every hates the jews - i mean they killed Jesus, The Son of GOD!, no wonder there is so many jokes
wait a minute

hold it there????........
i thought christians belived that jesus WAS god????
isnt that what you believe???

There are Arabs and there are Egyptians. If you are an Egyptian then you are not an Arab, unless you are one of the Arabized Egyptians, that is one o the Arabs that swarmed in and overran Egypt.

So are you an Egyptian who is descended from those immoral individuals who converted to Islam or an Arab that swarmed in?

In any event, our culture only slightly postdates Egypt and made many advances beyond it. After all, we came in to Egypt during a time of starvation in Canaan. When we left, we left you to your decline. No matter, regardless of how many times you attack us and we defeat you, we are forbidden by the Torah from ever occupying Egypt.

I remember a quote by a great Greek Musician Mikis Theodorakis, also the Egyptians are very good, some of them are descendants of Greeks of Alexandria. Maybe they are not fully Greek, because a lot of Greeks returned after loss of N. African Provinces of Byzantine Empire, but quite a few probably are and were very clever in Library of Alexandria.

The quote is:

Today we can say that this small nation [the Jews] is in the root of evil, not of good, which means that too much self-importance and too much stubbornness is evil. We are two nations without brothers in the world, us [the Greeks] and the Jews, but they have fanaticism and are forceful. The fact that we are very calm and did not turn aggressive like them is because we have more history. They only have Abraham and Jacob, who were shadows, while we have Pericles. Imagine what would happen in Greece if we were as aggressive as the Jews.

actually they had 2 reasons
1: go home after being kicked out 3000 years ago, (allthou there are arab jews living there, which are the original palistinians)
second reason: to make arabs live in constance wars


I understand the Sixties are “Time Immemorial” to you, but we lost Israel the last time less than Two Thousand Years ago, but never really left. Arab Jews are not the originals. Our writings clearly define Arabs as a distinct people who are described as inhabitants of wasteland, though the most desolate of ruined lands are considered devoid of even Arabs. Note Moab. I do wonder when Moab will become devoid of Arabs, when all of the Moabites have their hair falling out and Ostriches whine in the empty streets.

wait a minute

hold it there????........
i thought christians belived that jesus WAS god????
isnt that what you believe???


thats i wud like to believe but im a Hindu

There are Arabs and there are Egyptians. If you are an Egyptian then you are not an Arab, unless you are one of the Arabized Egyptians, that is one o the Arabs that swarmed in and overran Egypt.

So are you an Egyptian who is descended from those immoral individuals who converted to Islam or an Arab that swarmed in?

In any event, our culture only slightly postdates Egypt and made many advances beyond it. After all, we came in to Egypt during a time of starvation in Canaan. When we left, we left you to your decline. No matter, regardless of how many times you attack us and we defeat you, we are forbidden by the Torah from ever occupying Egypt.

dude read books

arabian=a person who is from the arabian peninsula
arab = a person whos native language is arabic

egytpian is a person coming from the land of Egypt
Egypt is located in the Arab League (which includes 22 other countries)
the arab league is in bothe africa and asia...

so im egyptian and arab and african
just like any one who is lets say: new yorker-american-north american

or tibetian chinese asian
but we have more unity between the arab states, the citizens want to unite while the rulers dont, yet we have a great road to make in democratizing the region into the better...

and the small period you are talking about that judaism started after is over 1500 years after the first egyptian dynasty, so you are no where near egyptian civilization, and i dont recall canaan discovering or inventing anything, or even building anything...
so cut the crap

if was to make a statue out of crap you would be filled with crap more then it...

You mean "excuse" genocide against Israelis. You're perfectly fine with making soap out of Muslims.

:rolleyes:


Nazis could not be allowed to continue their wars, they had to be reduced to the level of day time talk show subjects, like the Klan. Moslems are the same. They even dress the same. As the Klan I mean.

Nazis could not be allowed to continue their wars, they had to be reduced to the level of day time talk show subjects, like the Klan. Moslems are the same. They even dress the same. As the Klan I mean.

So how do you suggest doing this?

Vishnu007']thats i wud like to believe but im a Hindu


You are not a good Hindu. Bhishma would be ashamed to be in your presence, Karna would be disgusted and Yudhister would think you a fool.

Krishna would forgive you, maybe.

Unless of course you were trying to demonstrate the way our enemies think, in which case you would have been getting great applause from many Moslems, though they publicly deny it.

You want the Temple of Ram back?

wait a minute

hold it there????........
i thought christians belived that jesus WAS god????
isnt that what you believe???

Actually they believe that Jesus spread the gospel of Christianity. Catholics believe he's the Son of God and therefore a divine being.

"Today we can say that this small nation [the Jews] is in the root of evil, not of good, which means that too much self-importance and too much stubbornness is evil. We are two nations without brothers in the world, us [the Greeks] and the Jews, but they have fanaticism and are forceful. The fact that we are very calm and did not turn aggressive like them is because we have more history. They only have Abraham and Jacob, who were shadows, while we have Pericles. Imagine what would happen in Greece if we were as aggressive as the Jews."

- Mikis Theodorakis, Great Greek Musician

You are not a good Hindu. Bhishma would be ashamed to be in your presence, Karna would be disgusted and Yudhister would think you a fool.

Krishna would forgive you, maybe.

Unless of course you were trying to demonstrate the way our enemies think, in which case you would have been getting great applause from many Moslems, though they publicly deny it.

You want the Temple of Ram back?

My name is Vishnu, so that does give a kinda good clue, anyways im not really that religious, but all my muslim friends all mock the jews, so y can't we all, i mean they r univerisally hated

I remember a quote by a great Greek Musician Mikis Theodorakis, also the Egyptians are very good, some of them are descendants of Greeks of Alexandria. Maybe they are not fully Greek, because a lot of Greeks returned after loss of N. African Provinces of Byzantine Empire, but quite a few probably are and were very clever in Library of Alexandria.

The quote is:

Today we can say that this small nation [the Jews] is in the root of evil, not of good, which means that too much self-importance and too much stubbornness is evil. We are two nations without brothers in the world, us [the Greeks] and the Jews, but they have fanaticism and are forceful. The fact that we are very calm and did not turn aggressive like them is because we have more history. They only have Abraham and Jacob, who were shadows, while we have Pericles. Imagine what would happen in Greece if we were as aggressive as the Jews.

its true, all over the arab world we have people from the balkans and turkey, i myslef have a turkish grandpa, and my X had a greek mom. we share alot between cultures, its this mediteranean thing that no one understands except mediteraneans,

i have always admired the Byzantine empire, eventhou they were our enemies once, but they were great once, just like we were great before....

but im not really into making jokes on jews, and saying disrespecting stuff about judaism, it is still considered the base of Islam and christianity...

its true, all over the arab world we have people from the balkans and turkey, i myslef have a turkish grandpa, and my X had a greek mom. we share alot between cultures, its this mediteranean thing that no one understands except mediteraneans,

i have always admired the Byzantine empire, eventhou they were our enemies once, but they were great once, just like we were great before....

but im not really into making jokes on jews, and saying disrespecting stuff about judaism, it is still considered the base of Islam and christianity...
My friend we meditereans are practically brothers! We are also seeing what is going on against the Palestinians in their own land. Hopefully somebody will give them justice one day.

so Byzantine state where are you originally???

obviously from Byzantine, but which country and city...

Unless it's justified (which I highly doubt the annhilation a nuke causes is) the rest of the world will. Nuking anyone =! not good no matter what. It just brings us closer to our eventual destruction.


No one could stop us if we launched. America does not have the technology, Israel developed the Anti-Missile technology that America does have and it is not enough. Russia is even further behind now. That leaves, Allah and Allah is frankly not going to do anything. I do not accept the argument that Allah is the same as our own, any more than Ra or Indra. These are Pagan Gods, which in the case of Allah has been made exclusionary.

Arguably Indra factors in to a bigger “One God”, that might be equivalent, but Indra is more like a really big Angel. Like “Godhead” is to “Godwhole”.

Allah however, is still just a Moon Goddess.

I ask you this, is death by nuclear weapon any worse than any other kind of death? We could use chemical weapons, we could use biological weapons, we could use a Death Ray, what does it matter how people die if they end up dead anyway?

I might argue that death by Nuclear Weapon is faster and more humane than some other possible methods.

I think the Palestinians are actually just Arabs that no one wants.
i agree 1000%

No one could stop us if we launched. America does not have the technology, Israel developed the Anti-Missile technology that America does have and it is not enough. Russia is even further behind now. That leaves, Allah and Allah is frankly not going to do anything. I do not accept the argument that Allah is the same as our own, any more than Ra or Indra. These are Pagan Gods, which in the case of Allah has been made exclusionary.

Arguably Indra factors in to a bigger “One God”, that might be equivalent, but Indra is more like a really big Angel. Like “Godhead” is to “Godwhole”.

Allah however, is still just a Moon Goddess.

I ask you this, is death by nuclear weapon any worse than any other kind of death? We could use chemical weapons, we could use biological weapons, we could use a Death Ray, what does it matter how people die if they end up dead anyway?

I might argue that death by Nuclear Weapon is faster and more humane than some other possible methods.

do you even know who is allah????

Allah is the same god you and christians worship...
allah is the arabic word for god
just like in french its dieu
in english god
and in arabic allah....

No one could stop us if we launched. America does not have the technology, Israel developed the Anti-Missile technology that America does have and it is not enough. Russia is even further behind now. That leaves, Allah and Allah is frankly not going to do anything. I do not accept the argument that Allah is the same as our own, any more than Ra or Indra. These are Pagan Gods, which in the case of Allah has been made exclusionary.

Arguably Indra factors in to a bigger “One God”, that might be equivalent, but Indra is more like a really big Angel. Like “Godhead” is to “Godwhole”.

Allah however, is still just a Moon Goddess.

I ask you this, is death by nuclear weapon any worse than any other kind of death? We could use chemical weapons, we could use biological weapons, we could use a Death Ray, what does it matter how people die if they end up dead anyway?

I might argue that death by Nuclear Weapon is faster and more humane than some other possible methods.

We couldn't stop you, but your country would either cease to exist after it or be dealing with lots of sanctions ect (I'm no expert on the political consequences of a nuclear launch). I'm sure you wouldn't want that. How would the world react to any other country nuking somewhere, because I don't think there would be an acception for Isreal. And death by nuke is still death anyway you look at it, and it won't be tolerated.

so Byzantine state where are you originally???

obviously from Byzantine, but which country and city...

Cyprus, Kyrenia.

The only faith your words would crack would be the ones in Judaism not being a psychotic imperialist dogma no different than Christianity or Islam as you claim it to be.

And what's so moral and civilized about threatening to nuke a holy site and exterminate an entire ethnic group? Then again you support the Serbs and sympathize with them so no surprise there. The only Serb casualty of note was Monica Seles during a tennis match (STEFFI!!! -stab stab stab-).


They said they were fighting terrorists and I believe them.

This is Chele Kula., It is made out of Serbian Christians.

http://www.loper.org/~george/trends/2002/Mar/Chele_kula_skulls.jpg

This was made by Turks. The people they are supposedly attempting ethnic cleansing of, according to Clinton, are the same sort. They have been trying to turn parts of Serbia in to Islamic States. You would not want to live in one of those because their religion obligates them to execute you horribly.

Now, we are going to be trying Milosevic until he is dead of old age, because we just can’t find reasonable proof of that damned ethnic cleansing. The pictures the French turned up, were fake. The Photographer was behind the barbed wire, not the refuges. Most of the people executed, were men of fighting age. They were using terrorism so we have no way of knowing how many of them were civilians and how many were terrorists, they do not wear uniforms when fighting and try to blend in.

So yes, I sympathize with the Serbs and in a few decades, there may be no Serbs left. That will not make happy.

You hate Christians, so do Moslems. But Moslems hate you even more, except perhaps when they can use you against us.

so you are still talking about the mini minorities of arabs, fanatics, just like taliban and others... here in the arab states, we call them infidels, because they kill innocent people in the name of islam....

and palistinians are not jordanians, study a map dude....
and if so, was palistine uninhabitat befor zionists came????
who lived there???


The Koran does not define us as innocent, it accuses us of all sorts of contradictory crimes. Don’t make me lecture you on its contents again. Read it yourself this time.

So who lived in Israel? Turks who ruled the place, nomads who wandered through, a handful of stubborn Jews and Christians lingering at what remains of our collective shrines, a few Moslems who were not Turks. They became Israeli Arabs and Bedouin.

I never see a country called “Palestine” on honest maps. I see Israel, I see Jordan, some very old maps show a “Region” that covers Jordan and Lebanon and Israel and Southern Syria, but that is a region, not a country.

anyways
i have to go to sleep now

so bottom line
Arabs = North africans and middle east (excluding turkey iran and afghanistan)
Arabs = National identity and has nothing to do with islam
Islamists = are considered inffidels, because they kill innocent people
Palestine = has a bigger amount of right to exict then israel
Israel = also has the right to exict but on the natives rules and not by some westener rules who never saw the land
everyone supporting a non-israeli nuclear power scores an extra 100 points
and one realizing that Arabs are just the same as Chinese, Indian, Braziliaz, Russian, Americans, Europeans, Canadian, Afriicans, and other score an extra 100 point

and finally please kick yerushalyim out.. he is a terrorrist, and a racist son of a biscut....hehehe

know some information about the arab league:
at http://www.arableagueonline.org/arableague/index.jsp
and know about israeli violations :
at http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/am/publish/aqsq_mosque_0.shtml

Nazis could not be allowed to continue their wars, they had to be reduced to the level of day time talk show subjects, like the Klan. Moslems are the same. They even dress the same. As the Klan I mean.

So how do you suggest doing this?

I'm still waiting for an answer here.

Cyprus, Kyrenia.
cool iv been to cyprus once with school ISAAC competitions

iv been to Larnaca then up to Nicosia then limasol then back to larnaca and flee the island

very nice place there

So what destroy them in order to prevent your destruction? If they can't have peace I can understand you defending yourselves against them, but the moment you try to destroy them you become what you hate. Do you want that?


I disagree. If I am attacked by a man with a weapon and I kill him, that is self defense. I destroyed him deliberately, but he would have destroyed me. Had he not attempted that, I would have let him be, but he would not leave well enough alone.

The same is true of Islam, they wish to destroy us, for no reason other than, it is what their religion obligates them too. They will not stop at us either, they have higher priorities religiously, to eradicate Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians. They even plan to slowly work down the Christians after us, by enslaving them first.

For them, there is a choice. Islam, or Peace. For us, there is only kill or be killed. They give us no choice. We are obligated to survive and therefore, we are obligated to defend ourselves.

You give a bad name to Jews and Israelis. I am a practicing Jew, but I am disgusted at your blatant racism. Our religion and nation does not deserve to be represented in this way. I apologize for this fool, and I urge you, we look at Arabs with respect and friendliness. Why must the believers of the same God be locked in an eternal conflict?

Nuking nobody will solve anything, it will only create mass suffering to thousands or millions of innocents. Jihadists and Kahanists should be locked in a room together and fight it out, instead of the rest of us getting caught in the crossfire.

Arab League and the rest of the Muslim/Arab population of this board, please do not look at him with the understanding that he is the average Jew or Israeli. We want good relations with everyone in this world, but people like him continue to put up obstacles in our way.

I disagree. If I am attacked by a man with a weapon and I kill him, that is self defense. I destroyed him deliberately, but he would have destroyed me. Had he not attempted that, I would have let him be, but he would not leave well enough alone.

But you are calling for a position where if a man with a weapon attacks you, not only do you kill him but you kill his immediate family, his extended family, his friends and coworkers, and just about everyone who's a member of his ethnicity.

I thought the Lord said "Vegeance is mine, and mine alone" unless you're like George W. Bush and believe you're God's representative on Earth.

:rolleyes:

I remember a quote by a great Greek Musician Mikis Theodorakis, also the Egyptians are very good, some of them are descendants of Greeks of Alexandria. Maybe they are not fully Greek, because a lot of Greeks returned after loss of N. African Provinces of Byzantine Empire, but quite a few probably are and were very clever in Library of Alexandria.

The quote is:

Today we can say that this small nation [the Jews] is in the root of evil, not of good, which means that too much self-importance and too much stubbornness is evil. We are two nations without brothers in the world, us [the Greeks] and the Jews, but they have fanaticism and are forceful. The fact that we are very calm and did not turn aggressive like them is because we have more history. They only have Abraham and Jacob, who were shadows, while we have Pericles. Imagine what would happen in Greece if we were as aggressive as the Jews.


Greece, conquered the world. We never conquered anything besides Israel, even when we were everywhere. This does not sound like we were aggressive.

It does not surprise me that a proclaimed Byzantine would think these sorts of things were wise however, your people have primarily been absorbed in to Turkey where Mein Kampf is the best seller.

I would say our history is pretty strong, which is why we still have our religion, faithfully kept, while no one worships the Greek gods seriously anymore. There are Greek Orthodox, Christians, Christianity is our creation after all.

"Today we can say that this small nation [the Jews] is in the root of evil, not of good, which means that too much self-importance and too much stubbornness is evil. We are two nations without brothers in the world, us [the Greeks] and the Jews, but they have fanaticism and are forceful. The fact that we are very calm and did not turn aggressive like them is because we have more history. They only have Abraham and Jacob, who were shadows, while we have Pericles. Imagine what would happen in Greece if we were as aggressive as the Jews."

- Mikis Theodorakis, Great Greek Musician

If you seriously believe this quote, you are an anti-semitic fool.

You give a bad name to Jews and Israelis. I am a practicing Jew, but I am disgusted at your blatant racism. Our religion and nation does not deserve to be represented in this way. I apologize for this fool, and I urge you, we look at Arabs with respect and friendliness. Why must the believers of the same God be locked in an eternal conflict?

Nuking nobody will solve anything, it will only create mass suffering to thousands or millions of innocents. Jihadists and Kahanists should be locked in a room together and fight it out, instead of the rest of us getting caught in the crossfire.

Arab League and the rest of the Muslim/Arab population of this board, please do not look at him with the understanding that he is the average Jew or Israeli. We want good relations with everyone in this world, but people like him continue to put up obstacles in our way.


omg how was ur bar mitzvah?

i shud really put ommg (oh my many gods) but ah well :P

You give a bad name to Jews and Israelis. I am a practicing Jew, but I am disgusted at your blatant racism. Our religion and nation does not deserve to be represented in this way. I apologize for this fool, and I urge you, we look at Arabs with respect and friendliness. Why must the believers of the same God be locked in an eternal conflict?

Nuking nobody will solve anything, it will only create mass suffering to thousands or millions of innocents. Jihadists and Kahanists should be locked in a room together and fight it out, instead of the rest of us getting caught in the crossfire.

Arab League and the rest of the Muslim/Arab population of this board, please do not look at him with the understanding that he is the average Jew or Israeli. We want good relations with everyone in this world, but people like him continue to put up obstacles in our way.

You don't have to apologize for this Kahanist fruitcake just the same as the average Muslim shouldn't have to apologize for the criminal activities of Jihadists. I still am in the opinion that he reveres Baruch Goldstein and Yigal Amir as personal heroes, and his blatant support of Serbian atrocities only verifies perception of his anti-Arab views.

I disagree. If I am attacked by a man with a weapon and I kill him, that is self defense. I destroyed him deliberately, but he would have destroyed me. Had he not attempted that, I would have let him be, but he would not leave well enough alone.

I understand that, but you're advocating getting rid off all of Islam for the beliefs of radicals. Not all Islamic practicers want the destruction of you, but does that mean they need to go with the rest of the radicals, hell no.

The same is true of Islam, they wish to destroy us, for no reason other than, it is what their religion obligates them too. They will not stop at us either, they have higher priorities religiously, to eradicate Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians. They even plan to slowly work down the Christians after us, by enslaving them first.

Once again the assumption that all of Islam wants to destroy you. Liberal Islam disagrees with you on this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Islam

For them, there is a choice. Islam, or Peace. For us, there is only kill or be killed. They give us no choice. We are obligated to survive and therefore, we are obligated to defend ourselves.

Must you persist in assuming all of Islam wants you dead. You need to realize that NOT ALL OF ISLAM WANT YOU GONE. Sure some do, and they attack you, and you have every right to defend yoursleves, but once you need to get rid of everyone because of a few bad apples then you cross the line.

Yeah, the Nazis were also neopagans. Islam has enough countries so leave us alone. Yeah, I am getting really tired of having to point this out to every weepy moany crystal waver that bounces his happy little self through here.

"Islam has enough countries so leave us alone"

That gives you the right to steal land because they already have enough ummmm noooo


Nazis were pre-dominately Christian not neo-pagan, tool

dude read books

arabian=a person who is from the arabian peninsula
arab = a person whos native language is arabic

egytpian is a person coming from the land of Egypt
Egypt is located in the Arab League (which includes 22 other countries)
the arab league is in bothe africa and asia...

so im egyptian and arab and african
just like any one who is lets say: new yorker-american-north american

or tibetian chinese asian
but we have more unity between the arab states, the citizens want to unite while the rulers dont, yet we have a great road to make in democratizing the region into the better...

and the small period you are talking about that judaism started after is over 1500 years after the first egyptian dynasty, so you are no where near egyptian civilization, and i dont recall canaan discovering or inventing anything, or even building anything...
so cut the crap

if was to make a statue out of crap you would be filled with crap more then it...


How about Phonetic Alphabets. ours is the oldest still used today and it is an evolved form of the Canaanite language. You don’t even know the Koran but cal yourself a Moslem and you claim to know of Canaanite contributions?

Arabs are from Arabia. If you speak Arabic but are not an Arab, that does not change what you are. Of course, there are many Arabs in Egypt, not descended from Egyptians. As I said, you guys get around.

The Cohanim are all descended from one man, paternally. Aaron Kohan, Cohen, Cohan, English spelling is variable here. He was an Egyptian Priest who converted and became a Jewish prophet. The Cohanim are our Priesthood and their paternity is genetically verifiable via the Y Chromosome and probably more Egyptian than you are, so don’t get too uppity.

You don't have to apologize for this Kahanist fruitcake just the same as the average Muslim shouldn't have to apologize for the criminal activities of Jihadists. I still am in the opinion that he reveres Baruch Goldstein and Yigal Amir as personal heroes, and his blatant support of Serbian atrocities only verifies perception of his anti-Arab views.

I must if I want to keep the dignity of my religion. If someone on a board like this spews hatred at his degree, some may believe all of his religious/ethnic kin are the same as him. I have to show people the majority of Jews and Israelis, who are people like you, not hate mongers like him. I want our Arab brothers to ignore Kahanists when looking at us.

P.S. Ariel Sharon is a bad man, but he is the best we have so far. No other polition has the spine to withdraw from the West Bank.

Wow I am a member of the privileged elite. Never knew that thinking like yours was any different than any other racism. Perhaps you would like to tell us all about how progressive the Amish are now?

I would not call the resurrection of just one holy man a Prophet, any more than resurrecting Christ wold make him a new Prophet. you do realize that this myth is an explanation for exactly how Christians will eventually be disposed of?

Than again, as a Pagan you probably like the idea of killing Christians. All those wicked evil Christians who knock on your door and try to give you bibles, shame on them.

Privilege is based upon societal fact. Jews are wealthier than other religions. I didn't say you were bad because you were a Jew. However your views are racist. I'm sorry they just are.

Finally, Why would I waste the energy killing Christians when I am willing to accept and embrace diversity unlike the extremists such as yourself, bibles, do I go grabbing the Three Books of Occult Philosophy and give it to Christians, no...because the wise do not care for those who choose to be myopic

Vishnu007']My name is Vishnu, so that does give a kinda good clue, anyways im not really that religious, but all my muslim friends all mock the jews, so y can't we all, i mean they r univerisally hated


Your Moslem Friends are obligated to kill you by their religion. It seems unworkable for a Polytheist to be intolerant, but do not become tolerant of intolerance or your nature will become twisted in to a lie.

We are currently arming India with Tavor Rifles, we are working wit Indian Firms on the new versions of Windows and new Intel and Chemical plants. We are working on your new Nuclear Submarines and we are working on your new seaboard missiles, including the Arjun. We are working on some mutual helicopter manufacturing projects as well. You are a large Diamond Cutting Nation today, you use machines that we create to cut those diamonds.

India could have a good friend in Israel, but know that the alternative will be eventual, region by region, Islamic takeover and genocide, against Your People.

do you even know who is allah????

Allah is the same god you and christians worship...
allah is the arabic word for god
just like in french its dieu
in english god
and in arabic allah....


I disagree. you see, there is this big black rock with all sorts of pre-Arabic writing on it. The original worshipers thought it came from the moon and worshiped it as a Moon Goddess. It was Allah. Then Mohammed came and destroyed other idols, but this one is still there.

This is where you got your crescent and it is from those Pagans that you acquired your customs regarding fasting by day and celebration by night.

Your Moslem Friends are obligated to kill you by their religion. It seems unworkable for a Polytheist to be intolerant, but do not become tolerant of intolerance or your nature will become twisted in to a lie.

We are currently arming India with Tavor Rifles, we are working wit Indian Firms on the new versions of Windows and new Intel and Chemical plants. We are working on your new Nuclear Submarines and we are working on your new seaboard missiles, including the Arjun. We are working on some mutual helicopter manufacturing projects as well. You are a large Diamond Cutting Nation today, you use machines that we create to cut those diamonds.

India could have a good friend in Israel, but know that the alternative will be eventual, region by region, Islamic takeover and genocide, against Your People.

Why are they obliged to kill him? Because there are some parts of the Qu'ran when interpreted some ways point to it...

I hope sincerely your not referring to that because otherwise, that would be like saying that Christians are duty-bound to be homophobic sexist and racist and indeed also kill others on religious grounds....

My friend we meditereans are practically brothers! We are also seeing what is going on against the Palestinians in their own land. Hopefully somebody will give them justice one day.


The Turks will take over Southern Cyprus soon enough. Then again, if you are a Moslem, you should not be too upset by that.

I am sure the Palestinians will get justice, but I doubt they will want it when they realize what true justice means, for genocidal murderers.

Your Moslem Friends are obligated to kill you by their religion. It seems unworkable for a Polytheist to be intolerant, but do not become tolerant of intolerance or your nature will become twisted in to a lie.

We are currently arming India with Tavor Rifles, we are working wit Indian Firms on the new versions of Windows and new Intel and Chemical plants. We are working on your new Nuclear Submarines and we are working on your new seaboard missiles, including the Arjun. We are working on some mutual helicopter manufacturing projects as well. You are a large Diamond Cutting Nation today, you use machines that we create to cut those diamonds.

India could have a good friend in Israel, but know that the alternative will be eventual, region by region, Islamic takeover and genocide, against Your People.



u see india and pakistan are really one, y wud pakistan takeover india, when a percentage over 30% of india are Muslim themselves, u really must be a stupid fool to think that muslims dnt live in india.

u keep dreamin

I disagree. you see, there is this big black rock with all sorts of pre-Arabic writing on it. The original worshipers thought it came from the moon and worshiped it as a Moon Goddess. It was Allah. Then Mohammed came and destroyed other idols, but this one is still there.

This is where you got your crescent and it is from those Pagans that you acquired your customs regarding fasting by day and celebration by night.


HA HA HA! Where do you think the Star of David comes from ancient pagan occultism, bro ha ha

I disagree. you see, there is this big black rock with all sorts of pre-Arabic writing on it. The original worshipers thought it came from the moon and worshiped it as a Moon Goddess. It was Allah. Then Mohammed came and destroyed other idols, but this one is still there.

This is where you got your crescent and it is from those Pagans that you acquired your customs regarding fasting by day and celebration by night.

Jews acknowledge the hexagram doo da doo da

P.S. Ariel Sharon is a bad man, but he is the best we have so far. No other polition has the spine to withdraw from the West Bank.

Do you think Rabin might have ordered a pull-out eventually if Yeru's personal hero Yigal Amir didn't shoot him?

Do you think Rabin might have ordered a pull-out eventually if Yeru's personal hero Yigal Amir didn't shoot him?

Yes, but like you said, he was killed. Again, Sharon is the best we have so far.

We couldn't stop you, but your country would either cease to exist after it or be dealing with lots of sanctions ect (I'm no expert on the political consequences of a nuclear launch). I'm sure you wouldn't want that. How would the world react to any other country nuking somewhere, because I don't think there would be an acception for Isreal. And death by nuke is still death anyway you look at it, and it won't be tolerated.


Death is inevitable. War is inevitable. Nuclear Weapons are inevitable. If any Islamic State acquires these, that is an endgame, a surefire guarantee of their eventual usage. It may already be too late for Pakistan.

The old Arab myth. "Allah" made men of earth, but he also made people of water and air and fire. Each had their own characteristics. Djinn, Genies, are fire. They are terribly destructive beings and they believe “Allah” banished them.

The nuclear Genie is a big problem, You can not put that Genie back in the bottle.

It is true that the Soviets set up an international stigma regarding nuclear weapons. the World Peace Council went to great efforts to make America think their usage in Japan was unwarranted or even a crime. You have to be realistic however. The alternative to Nuking Japan, was fighting face to face with people who were planning on collective suicide. The Japanese had a record for fighting to the last man’s death that puts Moslems to shame. If we did not Nuke Japan, there may be no Japan today. They were giving children knives and poison and telling them to take one American with them and they would have tried.

Israel started out without American support and the British were actually trying to disarm Israel, though they tried to disarm Arabs as well they had less luck tracking down Nomads. Israel has developed enough weapons technology that anyone they trade with, will become a superpower.

In any event, Israel will survive, even if the rest of the Middle East does not. Others, may even get in on it, deep down, they know the Islamist threat applies to them as well.

What would America be without cell phones, windows, Intel Processors, anti-Missile technology, nuclear submarines, most biotech, the list goes on. Israel has had a huge impact on American technology and if this went somewhere else, America would no longer be the Sole Superpower.

I do not like the idea of having to Nuke anyone, but I recognize that this is what the world is coming to and I understand that we have to be ready to deal with it. I would like this to be as clean and contained as possible. I do not want Pakistan and India to Nuke each other as soon as Musharraf dies and some cleric is in charge. I do not want China or Russia to become involved. I want this to be dealt with, at a time when Nuclear Weapons are not even needed, especially a preimpact scattershot nuclear detonation as opposed to a deep earth penetrator.

We have to move soon however, and against the actual enemy, the heart of the ideology that threatens us, because we are running out of time.

I'm still waiting for an answer here.


The same way we handled the Nazis, open war with lots of technology, elbow room and force. Of course, Israel has less resources than America does, but the technology makes up for it.

You give a bad name to Jews and Israelis. I am a practicing Jew, but I am disgusted at your blatant racism. Our religion and nation does not deserve to be represented in this way. I apologize for this fool, and I urge you, we look at Arabs with respect and friendliness. Why must the believers of the same God be locked in an eternal conflict?

Nuking nobody will solve anything, it will only create mass suffering to thousands or millions of innocents. Jihadists and Kahanists should be locked in a room together and fight it out, instead of the rest of us getting caught in the crossfire.

Arab League and the rest of the Muslim/Arab population of this board, please do not look at him with the understanding that he is the average Jew or Israeli. We want good relations with everyone in this world, but people like him continue to put up obstacles in our way.


There are about fifty Kahanists. There are about half a billion Islamists.

Oh well, I am sure we would win anyway. Especially if I am in there. :^)>

But you are calling for a position where if a man with a weapon attacks you, not only do you kill him but you kill his immediate family, his extended family, his friends and coworkers, and just about everyone who's a member of his ethnicity.

I thought the Lord said "Vegeance is mine, and mine alone" unless you're like George W. Bush and believe you're God's representative on Earth.

:rolleyes:


When America fought Germany, bombs were dropped on every building, every street corner, every house. This is the nature of an industrial War, where you have to destroy not just the “Extremist” or even just the Soldier, but the infrastructure that supports them. If you fail this, you lose the war.

The same is true here. The terrorist is not important. He kills a hundred, he kills a thousand. Iran develops a nuclear weapon, something they voted for by majority rule, then they have a blackmail that will drag all of Europe down with, assuming they do not immediately use it on us. Either way, it is the victory of the Nazis that we are dealing with.

If America did not move on Germany full force, if the Soviets did not resort to even more brutal tactics, if Britain did not use Chemical Weapons, Germany very well might have won and Nazis would have destroyed everything. History could not allow that and so history must be forgiving.

So too should history forgive us for defending ourselves and dealing with these, latter era Nazis.

Death is inevitable. War is inevitable. Nuclear Weapons are inevitable. If any Islamic State acquires these, that is an endgame, a surefire guarantee of their eventual usage. It may already be too late for Pakistan.

So where are the strikes to stop Iran if this is such a big problem?

The old Arab myth. "Allah" made men of earth, but he also made people of water and air and fire. Each had their own characteristics. Djinn, Genies, are fire. They are terribly destructive beings and they believe “Allah” banished them.

The nuclear Genie is a big problem, You can not put that Genie back in the bottle.

Yes, but Allah did not make the nuclear Genie, man did. We might not be able to put him back in once full scale MAD starts, but we can try to stop the bottle from opening in the first place.

It is true that the Soviets set up an international stigma regarding nuclear weapons. the World Peace Council went to great efforts to make America think their usage in Japan was unwarranted or even a crime. You have to be realistic however. The alternative to Nuking Japan, was fighting face to face with people who were planning on collective suicide. The Japanese had a record for fighting to the last man’s death that puts Moslems to shame. If we did not Nuke Japan, there may be no Japan today. They were giving children knives and poison and telling them to take one American with them and they would have tried.

I believe America was right to nuke Japan because of that, but all of Islam has not declared war on you, so using them to get rid of it all is not intelligent. And I don't know I was thinking two cities gone in the blink of an eye is enough to make people realize shit we shouldn't be making these like popcorn, but unfortunately that hasn't happened.

Israel started out without American support and the British were actually trying to disarm Israel, though they tried to disarm Arabs as well they had less luck tracking down Nomads. Israel has developed enough weapons technology that anyone they trade with, will become a superpower.

You guys did pretty well getting some weapons from the czechs during the arab-isreali war when you weren't supposed to. :p

In any event, Israel will survive, even if the rest of the Middle East does not. Others, may even get in on it, deep down, they know the Islamist threat applies to them as well.

Once you start MAD it's over, that's it we start WW3 with sticks and stones ect. Do you really think the rest of the world would just sit by while you attempt to wipe out islam? I don't care if you think they are evil or not, but genocide is genocide and it's wrong no matter which way you look at it.

What would America be without cell phones, windows, Intel Processors, anti-Missile technology, nuclear submarines, most biotech, the list goes on. Israel has had a huge impact on American technology and if this went somewhere else, America would no longer be the Sole Superpower.

If they went somewhere, but they didn't so that point is moot.

I do not like the idea of having to Nuke anyone, but I recognize that this is what the world is coming to and I understand that we have to be ready to deal with it. I would like this to be as clean and contained as possible. I do not want Pakistan and India to Nuke each other as soon as Musharraf dies and some cleric is in charge. I do not want China or Russia to become involved. I want this to be dealt with, at a time when Nuclear Weapons are not even needed, especially a preimpact scattershot nuclear detonation as opposed to a deep earth penetrator.

We have to move soon however, and against the actual enemy, the heart of the ideology that threatens us, because we are running out of time.

You really believe that muslims are going to be nuking countries left and right? I must be an optomist here, but I doubt that muslim nations are going to attempt to nuke isreal off the map. They'd go with them, and not everybody wants to go poof in a cloud of nuclear dust.

The same way we handled the Nazis, open war with lots of technology, elbow room and force. Of course, Israel has less resources than America does, but the technology makes up for it.

So how are you going to deal with Islam in say america, europe, and other countries outside of the middle east? And I doubt the rest of the world is going to stand by if you try and wipe out the middle east anyway.

wat the tite jews

i mean the jewish boy asks his dad for 50p, the dad goes 30p, y do u need 20p for, wat use is 10p in this world, well son, wheres my 10p?

Vishnu007']lets have sum jewish jokes

wats the difference between a jew n a pizza?

a pizza doesn't scream in the oven!

plz add sum more ppl


Come back when you've learned not to insult people like this. That joke is of some of the worst taste that I've seen, and it isn't appreciated here.

[NS]Vishnu007: 3-Day Forumban for Trolling

So how are you going to deal with Islam in say america, europe, and other countries outside of the middle east? And I doubt the rest of the world is going to stand by if you try and wipe out the middle east anyway.


What happened to the Nazis? I don’t see a lot of nazis walking around Europe today and those that do, are violating laws for the most part. Nazis were guilty of attempted Genocide, so they were fitting targets of a sort.

Realize, I am not saying Moslems should all be killed, but the ideology has to be thoroughly smashed, so as not to pose a threat any longer. Ibn Warraq is a great guy, a decent man, he left Islam because of that. Others have too, but they risk their lives. If they are hurt badly enough, if they are forced to see the destruction that can occur, they will leave.

You do not believe they have all declared war against us, I think they have, though like Nazis, they all have different priorities.

Iran is close a to a bomb. Someone has to hit them, really soon. America and Israel are each looking at the other. It has to be one, I think in the end it is more important to Israel. I think the responsibility is once again, with us.

The Genie wants out, it can not be allowed out. Islamic Nations can be stopped, but that requires action, prompt action.

I do believe you are overly optimistic regarding Nuclear Regimes. Once they have these weapons, the blackmail begins. I think most of them would argue first, blackmail first, but it will eventually come down to usage, because they know how reluctant we are to use these weapons, they will not stop pushing, they will not stop making demands. They will literally blackmail us to death, eventually we will have no choice but to refuse and that is when they will practice suicide bombing on the nuclear scale. just like Japan had in mind if its nuclear program ever worked.

Mutually Assured Destruction, happens every day in the middle east.

Israel developed its arsenal in case it had to eradicate the Soviet Union. America knows, that if you little bastards become too much of a problem, America can just let Israel finish off all of you, then you are all gone and America does not have to dirty its hands with your blood.

With Israel’s new Enhanced Radiation Weapons, they can eradicate your populations while leaving the entire Oil producing Infrastructure Intact. We can just March in and pump all we want. :^)>

Let's keep it civil now, Yeru Shalayim. Stereotyping all of a specific people as 'little bastards' isn't the best thing to do. It's one thing to have an opinion, but its another to take it further, and making your statements in a trolling sort of way. I'd think about rephrasing your opinions.

When America fought Germany, bombs were dropped on every building, every street corner, every house. This is the nature of an industrial War, where you have to destroy not just the “Extremist” or even just the Soldier, but the infrastructure that supports them. If you fail this, you lose the war.Nah, actually the Allies dropped a lot of bombs with the intent of "terrorising" the Germans into becoming war weary, just as the Germans had tried to do it to the British. The difference was that the Allies managed to kill a heck of a lot more Germans this way than vice versa. It wasn't just "infrastructure" that was targeted, it was the civilian population itself in the crosshairs a lot of the time.

The same is true here. The terrorist is not important. He kills a hundred, he kills a thousand. Iran develops a nuclear weapon, something they voted for by majority rule, then they have a blackmail that will drag all of Europe down with, assuming they do not immediately use it on us. Either way, it is the victory of the Nazis that we are dealing with.They don't have anything to do it with yet. The facilities for manufacturing weapons grade material are still sealed.

If America did not move on Germany full force, if the Soviets did not resort to even more brutal tactics, if Britain did not use Chemical Weapons, Germany very well might have won and Nazis would have destroyed everything. History could not allow that and so history must be forgiving.Oh, boy. If Britain had used it's bomber fleets to hit the hydro power plants or the power grid, they would have had a much more favorable effect on the German war industry than the usage of incendiary bombs to create firestorms in German cities. Also, I don't recall the Americans being as brutal as the Russians, and they still won. Germany was doomed when the oil was gone, and that had little to do with brutal tactics or chemical weapons.

So too should history forgive us for defending ourselves and dealing with these, latter era Nazis.Latter era Nazis? I take my history very seriously. Please don't use the term "Nazi" where it isn't appropriate. While plenty of the hatefulness shown by islamic extremism against Israel is comparable to the atrocities committed by Nazi Germany, they are not the same.

Nah, actually the Allies dropped a lot of bombs with the intent of "terrorising" the Germans into becoming war weary, just as the Germans had tried to do it to the British. The difference was that the Allies managed to kill a heck of a lot more Germans this way than vice versa. It wasn't just "infrastructure" that was targeted, it was the civilian population itself in the crosshairs a lot of the time.

They don't have anything to do it with yet. The facilities for manufacturing weapons grade material are still sealed.

Oh, boy. If Britain had used it's bomber fleets to hit the hydro power plants or the power grid, they would have had a much more favorable effect on the German war industry than the usage of incendiary bombs to create firestorms in German cities. Also, I don't recall the Americans being as brutal as the Russians, and they still won. Germany was doomed when the oil was gone, and that had little to do with brutal tactics or chemical weapons.

Latter era Nazis? I take my history very seriously. Please don't use the term "Nazi" where it isn't appropriate. While plenty of the hatefulness shown by islamic extremism against Israel is comparable to the atrocities committed by Nazi Germany, they are not the same.


If you only refer to the facilities that Iran disclosed after hiding them for so long, then you are half right. They continued work and have enough gas, now.

There are always extremists, then moderates. There were extreme Nazis and moderate Nazis too. So what? To win you need all three sides to the triangle of victory. The people, the land and the infrastructure. If any one is unaccounted for, then you will have nothing.

So different from Nazis in the sense of what, aside from the whole making war in every direction, scapegoating and wanting to exterminate us, do you mean?


http://www.jtf.org/israel/nnn.01042005.israel.plo.mahmoud.abbas.abu.mazen.gaza.shout.small.jpg

http://www.jtf.org/israel/nnn.01052005.israel.plo.fatah.youth.at.abbas.mazen.rally.small.jpg

http://www.brotherhoodofthelamb.com/ArabNaziSalute.jpg


I would assert that they are ineffective compared to the Nazis, but the motive and intention are the same.

Let's keep it civil now, Yeru Shalayim. Stereotyping all of a specific people as 'little bastards' isn't the best thing to do. It's one thing to have an opinion, but its another to take it further, and making your statements in a trolling sort of way. I'd think about rephrasing your opinions.


Very well, while every civilization has its share of bastards I can see your point. Considering the increased amount of freedom in Western Countries, the higher rates of divorce and greater rights for women, there are probably more bastards over here than there are in the middle east.

The spirit of my statements however remains the same. My word usage was intended to communicate the incredible annoyance that they are likely to become and the likely results of their behaviors. Most particularly, American motives regarding the ignoring of the Israeli Arsenal.

If you only refer to the facilities that Iran disclosed after hiding them for so long, then you are half right. They continued work and have enough gas, now.

There are always extremists, then moderates. There were extreme Nazis and moderate Nazis too. So what? To win you need all three sides to the triangle of victory. The people, the land and the infrastructure. If any one is unaccounted for, then you will have nothing.

So different from Nazis in the sense of what, aside from the whole making war in every direction, scapegoating and wanting to exterminate us, do you mean?


http://www.jtf.org/israel/nnn.01042005.israel.plo.mahmoud.abbas.abu.mazen.gaza.shout.small.jpg

http://www.jtf.org/israel/nnn.01052005.israel.plo.fatah.youth.at.abbas.mazen.rally.small.jpg

http://www.brotherhoodofthelamb.com/ArabNaziSalute.jpg


I would assert that they are ineffective compared to the Nazis, but the motive and intention are the same.Those are misguided attempts to identify with a movement. All that these people have in common with the Nazis is an inherent hatred for anything Jewish or Christian. They lack the desire to found a state based on National Socialist ideals. They're basically cheap dimwits that think that the only thing Nazism was about was hating Jews. I mean there's Russians that do the same thing and Russians were considered "sub-human" by the Nazis. It's ignorance of history (and I doubt that islamic extremists have proper historical education) that leads to such gestures and behavior, not "Nazism". They're imitating the things they agree with. We have yet to see Hamas or Islamic Jihad open a Euthanasia Facility to make away with the mentally and physically handicapped Palestinians.

EDIT: And I seriously doubt Mahmoud Abbas was doing a "Hitlergruß" in that speech...

Those are misguided attempts to identify with a movement. All that these people have in common with the Nazis is an inherent hatred for anything Jewish or Christian. They lack the desire to found a state based on National Socialist ideals. They're basically cheap dimwits that think that the only thing Nazism was about was hating Jews. I mean there's Russians that do the same thing and Russians were considered "sub-human" by the Nazis. It's ignorance of history (and I doubt that islamic extremists have proper historical education) that leads to such gestures and behavior, not "Nazism". They're imitating the things they agree with. We have yet to see Hamas or Islamic Jihad open a Euthanasia Facility to make away with the mentally and physically handicapped Palestinians.


The Palestinians like Arabs in most of the world, have very high rates of birth defects, due to inbreeding, poor diets, poor medical care and toxic factors. This results in a lot of mentally and physically handicapped people.

The severely handicapped physically are usually lost to neglect. The worst of the worst in the worlds orphanages or life as beggars.

The mentally however, tend to lead menial lives which seems often in Palestine to result in an occupation as a bomb carrier, a “Pack Mule” as they are called often. One who carries a bomb or other contraband with minimal knowledge.

Comparable to Euthanasia I would say, but without the “Eu” part.

Personally I am unimpressed with Nationalist Socialist Ideals. They neglect fundamental tenements of Human nature, the nature of life in general, the basic principles of economics, the importance of individuality that gives birth to the values of individuality and any important political freedoms.

I would just as well find satisfaction in the Palestinians not exploring the precepts of Nationalist Socialism, though Socialism has always been a big part of what defines them, more specifically their refusal to have any sort of actual economy They began as a military body, they end as one. There was no coincidence in their Soviet Alliance..

I would agree that they are primarily motivated by the representations of Jew-Hatred, I would use the word anti-Semitism but some people who suffer from Sapir-Worph syndrome seem to have some trouble with the concept.

They got their start from the Nazis, they were practically founded by Nazi-Arab recruits. They borrow extensively from Nazi Propaganda, both as their doctrinal basis and as the central fixture in their entire mobilization, revisionist, recruitment and undermining program.

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/pages/Nazi%20Salute%20in%20Palestine_jpg_jpg_jpg.htm

http://www.aijac.org.au/review/2001/266/arab_holo.html

EDIT: And I seriously doubt Mahmoud Abbas was doing a "Hitlergruß" in that speech...


When a person lies, their voice raises a bit. Hitler spent much of his time screeching for this reason. So did Arafat, so does Abbas. This particular ranting style is practiced and learned. Look what he does with his wrists.

...

I have a fair amount of respect for this man, though a lot is lost in the terminology, which I do not believe you understand.
How smug. Let's see.

You see, Jordan, Southern Syria, Lebanon and Israel “Are” Collectively Palestine, which was never a country at all, but a region. Why “The Palestine Pound” was printed in Hebrew by Jewish “Palestinians”.

It is true, that they were Nomads, they still are. Bedouin Nomads to be exact, Israeli Arabs today. You see Israel has Moslems living in it, full citizens who earn their shekels and serve in the IDF and collect benefits as full fledged citizens.
So in 1923 the Arabs were in present-day Israel, Syria, and Lebanon, but Gaza, Nabulus, and Hebron were ghost cities? Wow.

Very different from those so called “Palestinians” that you are so fond of, people from Jordan, lead by a man from Cairo and reinforced by the Syrian Hit Squads who eradicated Lebanon in the name of “Palestine”.
My dear cleanser, I am a supporter of the Israeli right to exist. For all I care, Israel may effect a population transfer and annex the West Bank. It will be a crime against humanity, of course, but the US will defend Israel from the accusations.

I do not support burning a billion of people in the nuclear flame.

The river is called the Jordan. Jordan is the country on the Eastern side today. They still want to be “Transjordan” as in “Both sides of the Jordan”. They will never be, unless people like you get their way, forking Israel over to the “Palestinians” so they can fork it over to the countries they actually came from.
An example of miseducation. 'Transjordan' means 'the other side of the Jordan', just like 'Transleithania' meant 'on the other side of the Leitha'. You may say that there is no 'Cisjordan' and I am ignorant, but there IS Cisjordan--the West Bank, that is.

How dare ariel sharon betray the jews and all their forfathers..they ruled that land many thousands of years ago ansd have won it back through a series of wars. should they not be able to keep it? i mean the USA still has territory form its previous wars and so do european nations..so saying the jews should give it up is nothing but hypocritical..besides if the palestinians want there own land then look around them.. they are in a sea of arab lands.. it seems funny how israel lets like 5 million immigrants of any ethincity or race in each year but not one arab nation will let their palestianian brothers immigrate to other arab land..lets face it..all they want to do is completly destroy israel

If they accepted it, why did they gather their hordes for the ’67 war? it is because this was never agreed upon as a recognized Israeli Border.
Israel had to have a border however provisional it was, hadn't it? The agreements were signed by the Arab states in 1949. I have never said that it is a permanent and recognized border. Stop lying.

Israel developed its arsenal in case it had to eradicate the Soviet Union. America knows, that if you little bastards become too much of a problem, America can just let Israel finish off all of you, then you are all gone and America does not have to dirty its hands with your blood.

...
According to your logic the Soviet Union must have turned Israel to glass. Magnificent.

Boy has this thread moved on... I really must check in more often.

Yeru Shalayim, will you, a trigger-happr history-nut who belives that one race is chosen while another should be wiped off the face of the earth because they are the cancer of Europe, please stop equating people with Nazis. It's childish ;)

How smug. Let's see.


So in 1923 the Arabs were in present-day Israel, Syria, and Lebanon, but Gaza, Nabulus, and Hebron were ghost cities? Wow.


My dear cleanser, I am a supporter of the Israeli right to exist. For all I care, Israel may effect a population transfer and annex the West Bank. It will be a crime against humanity, of course, but the US will defend Israel from the accusations.

I do not support burning a billion of people in the nuclear flame.


An example of miseducation. 'Transjordan' means 'the other side of the Jordan', just like 'Transleithania' meant 'on the other side of the Leitha'. You may say that there is no 'Cisjordan' and I am ignorant, but there IS Cisjordan--the West Bank, that is.


Trans means across both sides, You obviously can not understands what I write either.

According to a Census taken by the Catholic Church, three hundred years ago there were about a dozen people in Gaza, most were poor and most were Jewish. This would make a lot more sense than six hundred thousand Arabs somehow farming “Fields of Green” in a dozen mile wasteland.

I do not think it would be a crime against humanity to return the Jordanian Refuges to Jordan. Of course I recognize the political challenge when the entire Moslem world and all of the western sympathizers like you are willing to conveniently ignore reality.

Israel had to have a border however provisional it was, hadn't it? The agreements were signed by the Arab states in 1949. I have never said that it is a permanent and recognized border. Stop lying.


Israel did not have to have a border, if they did then they would have had to draw a hard line and completely defeat Jordan, something which would have been cruel to Jordan as it was unneeded. Israel is not cruel, so it had to agree to a soft solution before recognition by the UN.

It was obviously not a permanent or recognized border. These territories are disputed and the dispute is between Israel and Jordan. The dispute with Egypt has been settled, along the lines of The Sinai.

According to your logic the Soviet Union must have turned Israel to glass. Magnificent.


Israel could not absorb a hit from the Soviets, so they produced about four hundred weapons and put a few in to each of its submarines. The Soviets could have destroyed Israel, but there would be no Soviets left after the fact. Even if they managed to shoot down every Israeli Bomber, the fifty Missiles would have still hit the Fifty Largest targets in Russia.

Soviets, unlike the Moslems today, did not employ suicidal strategies. Soviets would not have traded their Union, for Israel.

Russia today, probably can’t. Their arsenal has aged and their technology has fallen behind. Israel’s anti-missile technology and improved Submarines would shift the balance. There is a good chance today that Israeli Lasers could shoot down whatever Russian Rockets don’t explode at liftoff. The Russian zigzag Missiles after all, did not work.

Boy has this thread moved on... I really must check in more often.

Yeru Shalayim, will you, a trigger-happr history-nut who belives that one race is chosen while another should be wiped off the face of the earth because they are the cancer of Europe, please stop equating people with Nazis. It's childish ;)


We are chosen, for a burden. You see, all of the people in the world were examined, to see who could keep the covenant. Every law had to be applied and none could be ignored, but each people had a vice, that was on the list. The Arabs lived by thievery for example.

One people seemed they could keep the covenant, that people was us. When the covenant was offered to us however, our vice became apparent. We argued that we should not be bound to a covenant that expected sacrifices from us but offered us, nothing in return.

Then He threatened to drop a mountain on us, so we conceded.

So today, we 613 “Commandments” and no promise of an afterlife. We are expected to follow thousands of laws, with no promise of forgiveness. This is for what we are “Chosen”. Do we recruit? No, because it would be immoral for us to try and “Choose” you. We are far too kind to “Choose” people for such things.

Now please “Choose” your way back to whatever country you come from and leave us alone.

Trans means across both sides, You obviously can not understands what I write either.

Transleithania, Cisleithania... Brush up your language skills.

I do not think it would be a crime against humanity to return the Jordanian Refuges to Jordan. Of course I recognize the political challenge when the entire Moslem world and all of the western sympathizers like you are willing to conveniently ignore reality.
Like I care about your opinion.

Israel did not have to have a border, if they did then they would have had to draw a hard line and completely defeat Jordan, something which would have been cruel to Jordan as it was unneeded. Israel is not cruel, so it had to agree to a soft solution before recognition by the UN.
..i.
Another lie--Israel was created by the UN vote in 1947, the armistice was signed in 1949. And the country not having a border is something surreal.

Israel could not absorb a hit from the Soviets, so they produced about four hundred weapons and put a few in to each of its submarines. The Soviets could have destroyed Israel, but there would be no Soviets left after the fact. Even if they managed to shoot down every Israeli Bomber, the fifty Missiles would have still hit the Fifty Largest targets in Russia.

Soviets, unlike the Moslems today, did not employ suicidal strategies. Soviets would not have traded their Union, for Israel.

Russia today, probably can’t. Their arsenal has aged and their technology has fallen behind. Israel’s anti-missile technology and improved Submarines would shift the balance. There is a good chance today that Israeli Lasers could shoot down whatever Russian Rockets don’t explode at liftoff. The Russian zigzag Missiles after all, did not work.
:D How old are you? 12 or 13? I've just had a good laugh.

Transleithania, Cisleithania... Brush up your language skills.


Like I care about your opinion.


Another lie--Israel was created by the UN vote in 1947, the armistice was signed in 1949. And the country not having a border is something surreal.


:D How old are you? 12 or 13? I've just had a good laugh.


I would continue this war of wits with you, but it would be a war of wits crime to slaughter such an obviously unarmed man as yourself.

I would continue this war of wits with you, but it would be a war of wits crime to slaughter such an obviously unarmed man as yourself.
I am heartbroken.

I am heartbroken.


What heart, the one that is so soft that the Islamists can mold it like clay? Such a thing can not be broken, only squished in to different shapes.

What heart, the one that is so soft that the Islamists can mold it like clay? Such a thing can not be broken, only squished in to different shapes.
A therapeutics specialist? Highly unlikely.

A flamer? Probably.

An irresponsible child? Definitely.

A therapeutics specialist? Highly unlikely.

A flamer? Probably.

An irresponsible child? Definitely.


If you can not be intelligent or correct, knowledgeable or logical, at least try to be original. Calling people childish trolls does not do anything to advance your ridiculous position.

If you can not be intelligent or correct, knowledgeable or logical, at least try to be original. Calling people childish trolls does not do anything to advance your ridiculous position.
A flamebait? No, thank you. I'm not hungry.

We are chosen, for a burden. You see, all of the people in the world were examined, to see who could keep the covenant. Every law had to be applied and none could be ignored, but each people had a vice, that was on the list. The Arabs lived by thievery for example.

One people seemed they could keep the covenant, that people was us. When the covenant was offered to us however, our vice became apparent. We argued that we should not be bound to a covenant that expected sacrifices from us but offered us, nothing in return.

Then He threatened to drop a mountain on us, so we conceded.

So today, we 613 “Commandments” and no promise of an afterlife. We are expected to follow thousands of laws, with no promise of forgiveness. This is for what we are “Chosen”. Do we recruit? No, because it would be immoral for us to try and “Choose” you. We are far too kind to “Choose” people for such things.

Now please “Choose” your way back to whatever country you come from and leave us alone.

I think you may have missed my broader point. Without wanting to lapse too painfully into platitudes, it seems to me that all extremists who base their worldviews around ethnic and/or religious groupings seem to be cut pretty much from the same cloth. If you're taking your Judaism/Christianity/Islam/Nazism/Stalinism/Anti-communism etc. etc. etc. as the be all and end all, pretty soon you find yourself arguing for the extermination of Jews/Christians/Muslims/Communists/Capitalists (delete as appropriate) [Anti-flame disclaimer: I am NOT arguing for moral equivalence between these different world-views], presumably because you assume they're just as extrme as you are. I have Muslim friends, Israeli friends, American friends and lots of others who all seem to care mostly about normal things like partying, scoring with girls. Where any political problems do emerge, its largely as a result of nutters like you caricaturing the whole of some other ethnic/religious group as being just as extreme as they are.

That's not to say that there aren't really serious political problems, such as what to do about the Palestinian Territories, but pouring massive quantities of ethno-religious haterd on the fire seems unlikely to help. Hence the whole irony with your thing about - "Those guys living within our borders who I want to exterminate from the face of the earth are Nazis. Let's build a big Krakow-circa-WWII-style wall around them."

And I thought the "therapeutics specialist" bit was quite original.

I think you may have missed my broader point. Without wanting to lapse too painfully into platitudes, it seems to me that all extremists who base their worldviews around ethnic and/or religious groupings seem to be cut pretty much from the same cloth. If you're taking your Judaism/Christianity/Islam/Nazism/Stalinism/Anti-communism etc. etc. etc. as the be all and end all, pretty soon you find yourself arguing for the extermination of Jews/Christians/Muslims/Communists/Capitalists (delete as appropriate) [Anti-flame disclaimer: I am NOT arguing for moral equivalence between these different world-views], presumably because you assume they're just as extrme as you are. I have Muslim friends, Israeli friends, American friends and lots of others who all seem to care mostly about normal things like partying, scoring with girls. Where any political problems do emerge, its largely as a result of nutters like you caricaturing the whole of some other ethnic/religious group as being just as extreme as they are.

That's not to say that there aren't really serious political problems, such as what to do about the Palestinian Territories, but pouring massive quantities of ethno-religious haterd on the fire seems unlikely to help. Hence the whole irony with your thing about - "Those guys living within our borders who I want to exterminate from the face of the earth are Nazis. Let's build a big Krakow-circa-WWII-style wall around them."


I am no prejudiced against Moslems, than I am against Nazis. “Every Nazi” did not murder Jews or commit war crimes; but the Nazi “Doctrine” mandated these things. The same can be said for Islam, as someone who can translate Arabic and has been through several variations on the Koran I can state unequivocally, that the doctrines set forth within the framework of Islam are Genocidal and aggressive.

Every Moslem adheres to these doctrines, or they are not a Moslem.

Israel is a tiny country, Islam is huge and threatens the existence of Israel. Iran has banners that read “Death to Israel” draped over their new Rockets. Pakistan finally spoke to us, but maintains that it will not recognize us until we commit suicide by turning “All land” over to the “Palestinians”, the Palestinian leader himself promises to “Continue fight until all land is claimed”.

So yes, I advocate Israel removing them. They are hostile invaders and Israel is well within its rights to remove them.

India is a in a similar situation, so is Serbia, so is Russia, so is Ivory Coast, now so is Thailand. So is everyone, this is not prejudice speaking, this is the Understanding of Islamic Doctrines. The words they say in their Mosques when they pray, the words their leaders say and put in writing.

If you want an example of prejudice, go to the Palestinian Authorities Web Page. They recently removed the “Protocols” from their English page, but they still have it stored in their Arabic pages. A little relic from their founders.

And I thought the "therapeutics specialist" bit was quite original.


I genuinely prefer to sell Land Mines to the Kurds and artificial legs to the Sunni.

I am no prejudiced against Moslems, than I am against Nazis.



I can't actually bother to go back through the threads and drag this up, but I do seem to remember you telling some poor kid in Manchester that the guys at his local pizza parlour would be bombing a subway station near him shortly. This strikes me as just a teensy-weensy little bit prejudiced. And while I concede that whilse Islam does insist on pretty literal interpretations of the Koran, and I'd be the first to admit I was no expert, it does seem to be subject to enough conflicting interpretations to leave people at least a little leeway not to go around committing genocide.

Just to clear this up, the whole equation of Islam with Nazism seems inapt on the more basic level that Islam was around for a lot longer than Nazism. You can be culturally Islamic, but aside from having a hard-on for faux-classical art and imperial imagery, its difficult to be culturally Nazi. This isn't important except that it seems to me that it does present a tiny flaw for your "Crush this brutal ideology using nukes and whatever else we have until it is defeated in much the same way as the other brutal ideology" plan. People seem to be rather more attached to a millenia and a half of their culture than they were to their government of a decade or so.

I can't actually bother to go back through the threads and drag this up, but I do seem to remember you telling some poor kid in Manchester that the guys at his local pizza parlour would be bombing a subway station near him shortly. This strikes me as just a teensy-weensy little bit prejudiced. And while I concede that whilse Islam does insist on pretty literal interpretations of the Koran, and I'd be the first to admit I was no expert, it does seem to be subject to enough conflicting interpretations to leave people at least a little leeway not to go around committing genocide.

Just to clear this up, the whole equation of Islam with Nazism seems inapt on the more basic level that Islam was around for a lot longer than Nazism. You can be culturally Islamic, but aside from having a hard-on for faux-classical art and imperial imagery, its difficult to be culturally Nazi. This isn't important except that it seems to me that it does present a tiny flaw for your "Crush this brutal ideology using nukes and whatever else we have until it is defeated in much the same way as the other brutal ideology" plan. People seem to be rather more attached to a millenia and a half of their culture than they were to their government of a decade or so.


Islam had a fourteen hundred year head start on Nazism, is clearly less efficient and seems less well adjusted to industrialization; but the goal is the same, in fact compatible enough that The Palestinian Authority traces its roots back to a man who was literally appointed by Hitler.

Nazism did come with an entire cultural package. “Modern Art” was made illegal, an entire set of modified fairy tales were cranked out or dug up, they made a very colorful show out of The Olympics and an entire mythology was fabricated just to convince a culturally hungry population of how much more “Cultured” they were before Our Jewish Trick of Inventing Christianity was played on them.

Much of what you call Islamic “Culture” predates Islam as well, it was borrowed from Persian or other Tribal Traditions. The Koran does not say to cut off a Fifteen Year Old Girls Nose just because she had sex out of marriage, even if it was rape, it actually calls for stoning, but it does not forbid lesser punishments like cutting off her nose so the Tribal Custom is considered compatible with Sharia.

Realize that the specific law also requires in the case of adultery that if she nose cut off, the man must also be castrated and that if she is killed, he must be killed as well.

Note that while Judaism also has provisions for stoning, this is not however applicable to cases of rape and requires that it be conducted in a place that has not existed for two thousand years, in a fashion that leaves no one alive today with the authority to call for it.

Now for these Moslem Pizza Men. They are required, by Islamic Doctrine, to work to advance Islam against Dar Al Harb. The specific instructions to Arabs, named specifically amongst Moslems, was to “Go forth in boldness”, as an advance party, like scouts, guerillas and spies. They may not be running around with machine guns, but if they are practicing Moslems, they are financing and providing support for those who are. They are called upon to put their resources towards the Jihad, be it economic or political or direct and physical. Of course, if they are selling beer and pork toppings, they are already committing mortal sins against Islam and I may not even consider them Moslems. My idea of a “Good Moslem” is a Moslem who rejects his religion, like Ibn Warraq.

I think everyone should read Ibn Warraq’s books. The man risked his life to write them, has a price on his head and has had a death sentence passed against him by several Islamic States, but he keeps writing anyway.

Of course, if they are selling beer and pork toppings, they are already committing mortal sins against Islam and I may not even consider them Moslems.



That's really the problem isn't it. You change between the definition of Muslim as someone who broadly subscribes to the teachings of Mohammed or lives in an Islamic state and Muslim as ideological fanatic according to whichever suits your argument at the time: "We know Muslims are secretly hoping for a mammoth Jihad against the West."
"But I'm a Muslim and I quite like things like democracy and I have no urge to cut anyone's nose off."
"Then you aren't a Muslim. Now shut up while I work out how to nuke these Muslim countries where they cut people's noses off."
"But lots of people in them don't like cutting people's noses off. Why don't we just leave them be and not interfere with their politics."
"Don't be ridiculous, they're sitting on a shed-load of oil. We have a God-given right to meddle with their politics."
"Christ, we're off on a tangent now aren't we."
"A little. Which one are you?"
"Can't remember. I'm pretty sure the broad point was that you can't declare all people to be one thing, change you definition of it and then revert to the original definition when deciding who needs to be wiped from the face of the earth. Especially not under the rubric of defending innocent people."
"Fair enough."

That's really the problem isn't it. You change between the definition of Muslim as someone who broadly subscribes to the teachings of Mohammed or lives in an Islamic state and Muslim as ideological fanatic according to whichever suits your argument at the time: "We know Muslims are secretly hoping for a mammoth Jihad against the West."
"But I'm a Muslim and I quite like things like democracy and I have no urge to cut anyone's nose off."
"Then you aren't a Muslim. Now shut up while I work out how to nuke these Muslim countries where they cut people's noses off."
"But lots of people in them don't like cutting people's noses off. Why don't we just leave them be and not interfere with their politics."
"Don't be ridiculous, they're sitting on a shed-load of oil. We have a God-given right to meddle with their politics."
"Christ, we're off on a tangent now aren't we."
"A little. Which one are you?"
"Can't remember. I'm pretty sure the broad point was that you can't declare all people to be one thing, change you definition of it and then revert to the original definition when deciding who needs to be wiped from the face of the earth. Especially not under the rubric of defending innocent people."
"Fair enough."

Funny and true :D

That's really the problem isn't it. You change between the definition of Muslim as someone who broadly subscribes to the teachings of Mohammed or lives in an Islamic state and Muslim as ideological fanatic according to whichever suits your argument at the time: "We know Muslims are secretly hoping for a mammoth Jihad against the West."
"But I'm a Muslim and I quite like things like democracy and I have no urge to cut anyone's nose off."
"Then you aren't a Muslim. Now shut up while I work out how to nuke these Muslim countries where they cut people's noses off."
"But lots of people in them don't like cutting people's noses off. Why don't we just leave them be and not interfere with their politics."
"Don't be ridiculous, they're sitting on a shed-load of oil. We have a God-given right to meddle with their politics."
"Christ, we're off on a tangent now aren't we."
"A little. Which one are you?"
"Can't remember. I'm pretty sure the broad point was that you can't declare all people to be one thing, change you definition of it and then revert to the original definition when deciding who needs to be wiped from the face of the earth. Especially not under the rubric of defending innocent people."
"Fair enough."


And maybe there were some “Moderate” Nazis, that doesn’t mean we should have left them in charge of Europe.

Moderate Moslems only “Moderately” want to destroy us, so in those cases we must “Moderately” deal with them.

Fair enough?

And maybe there were some “Moderate” Nazis, that doesn’t mean we should have left them in charge of Europe.

Moderate Moslems only “Moderately” want to destroy us, so in those cases we must “Moderately” deal with them.

Fair enough?

My own feeling is that there's a fairly big drop-off from the "wanting to destroy" of the extremists on any side to the "really wishing people would leave us to our own business" of everyone else, and that you could really leave most of those people alone without any sort of dealing with. Terrorism, as I never tire of saying, is quite clearly a police and intelligence service problem. Full scale wars seem counter-productive, since all you do is piss a lot of otherwise quite rational people off, myself included.

I am all FOR the withdrawal, unless it is just a scheme of Sharon's to have his way in the West Bank. All this talk about Islam "inciting genocide" does not make sense. There is nothing in the Koran that would point at Judaism, and you can find a lot of points agains persecuting Hebrews (no matter how undignified and contemptible the Hamas may be - the fact is that Hebrews had a better chance of being held in esteem throughout the Moslem world, if I was to mention just Maimonides being Chancellor of Cordoba).
The problem of religion is a most recent thing, giving that all the "perils" faced by Israel (conveniently pointed as the representative of "the civilised world" - bypassing all the issues that Hebrews might've just as well had with the persecuting European states - just 3 years before the formation of Israel), all were produced by secular regimes, even socialistic ones (backed by the USSR). A violent, and utterly new form of Islam has been generated by decades of neglect, and the incoherent (even murderous) policies of Arab states. Even if it were a mainstream ideal (which it is not) you could not possibly prosecute people who do not, and will not, act on it.
Israel has been acting, throughout this, as a state of limited legitimacy. In my eyes, it is legitimised, it shouldn't cease to exist etc. But it is a very "quaint" construction. For starters, according to law ther (correct me if I'm wrong) you cannot be a citizen unless you are Jewish. The notion is forever ill-defined - what makes one Jewish? (being a recently converted Ethiopian seemed to work, even being an atheist, a communist, a Druze from those brought over in the 80s, but you cannot be a Christian - though with a Jewish mother). It is also absurd, given that there are Arab citizens - as such, automatically (by badly concieved law) second-rate. And what about people in the occupied territories? South Africa got banned from several forums for having this kind of policy, but it didn't have eternal US backing...

Incidentally, I am a nominal Christian Orthodox.

And maybe there were some “Moderate” Nazis, that doesn’t mean we should have left them in charge of Europe.

Moderate Moslems only “Moderately” want to destroy us, so in those cases we must “Moderately” deal with them.

Fair enough?

Sure. And you're only "moderately" racist. Fair is fair.

My own feeling is that there's a fairly big drop-off from the "wanting to destroy" of the extremists on any side to the "really wishing people would leave us to our own business" of everyone else, and that you could really leave most of those people alone without any sort of dealing with. Terrorism, as I never tire of saying, is quite clearly a police and intelligence service problem. Full scale wars seem counter-productive, since all you do is piss a lot of otherwise quite rational people off, myself included.


Terrorism, heretofore referred to as “Asymmetric Warfare”, is a tactic employed by the force having the industrial disadvantage, against the force having the industrial advantage.

Industry, Technology, these are dependent upon a certain level of order, freedom and intent. Terrorism, as a tactic, introduces disorder, encourages oppression of freedom and undermines intent, thereby weakening the Industrial Base.

This is their intention. They employ it because it is their best option. They know they would lose an open conflict, so they gradually undermine us with propaganda and terrorism.

If they had tanks that rivaled ours, they would use them. If they had heavy bombers and the means to match our power, they would use that as well. If they had intercontinental ballistic missiles capable of delivering a Nuclear Warhead, tat would be their weapon of choice. They have none of these, so they resort to terrorism and I would prefer to keep the balance of power as it is. With us in the advantage and they not.

We can only maintain this balance for so long. Once Iran becomes Nuclear, there is no hope for avoiding the use of Nuclear Weapons, against us. It guarantees an end result of Mutually Assured Destruction, or at the very least a situation where we are forced to obliterate not just a few of them, not just a few heavily crowded symbols, but all of them. Just in case, we can’t shoot down their weapon, just in case, we can not intercept its carrier.

There is a limited amount of time to deal with this problem and just as we could not avoid war with Germany, we can not avoid war with Islam. Open war, full war, complete war, it is inevitable. Their doctrine mandates it.

It does not matter, if there are “Moderates” who are less vociferous about their opinions, less likely to lay their life down for their beliefs. They read from the same Koran as everyone else, if they don’t read, if they don’t practice, then I am sure after the war they can go back to being Non-Moslem Arabs; just as after the war in Germany, more “Moderate” Nazis could go back to being Non-Nazi Germans.

Of course, if America sat on its hands, “negotiating” and Germany found out about Heisenberg’s very deliberate mistakes so Germany got the bomb...

Well, the new V-Series Missiles were designed to reach America sort of like how Iran’s Missiles are being designed to reach their targets of choice.

Terrorism, heretofore referred to as “Asymmetric Warfare”, is a tactic employed by the force having the industrial disadvantage, against the force having the industrial advantage.

Industry, Technology, these are dependent upon a certain level of order, freedom and intent. Terrorism, as a tactic, introduces disorder, encourages oppression of freedom and undermines intent, thereby weakening the Industrial Base.

This is their intention. They employ it because it is their best option. They know they would lose an open conflict, so they gradually undermine us with propaganda and terrorism.

If they had tanks that rivaled ours, they would use them. If they had heavy bombers and the means to match our power, they would use that as well. If they had intercontinental ballistic missiles capable of delivering a Nuclear Warhead, tat would be their weapon of choice. They have none of these, so they resort to terrorism and I would prefer to keep the balance of power as it is. With us in the advantage and they not.

We can only maintain this balance for so long. Once Iran becomes Nuclear, there is no hope for avoiding the use of Nuclear Weapons, against us. It guarantees an end result of Mutually Assured Destruction, or at the very least a situation where we are forced to obliterate not just a few of them, not just a few heavily crowded symbols, but all of them. Just in case, we can’t shoot down their weapon, just in case, we can not intercept its carrier.

There is a limited amount of time to deal with this problem and just as we could not avoid war with Germany, we can not avoid war with Islam. Open war, full war, complete war, it is inevitable. Their doctrine mandates it.

It does not matter, if there are “Moderates” who are less vociferous about their opinions, less likely to lay their life down for their beliefs. They read from the same Koran as everyone else, if they don’t read, if they don’t practice, then I am sure after the war they can go back to being Non-Moslem Arabs; just as after the war in Germany, more “Moderate” Nazis could go back to being Non-Nazi Germans.

Of course, if America sat on its hands, “negotiating” and Germany found out about Heisenberg’s very deliberate mistakes so Germany got the bomb...

Well, the new V-Series Missiles were designed to reach America sort of like how Iran’s Missiles are being designed to reach their targets of choice.

If Iran getting nukes really would be the end of everything, then why hasn't Isreal attacked them/production facilities (unless I've missed something and they already have)? Clearly if they have concrete proof that Iran will use them to obliterate them then they should be able to go in and stop that from happening shouldn't they?

If Iran getting nukes really would be the end of everything, then why hasn't Isreal attacked them/production facilities (unless I've missed something and they already have)? Clearly if they have concrete proof that Iran will use them to obliterate them then they should be able to go in and stop that from happening shouldn't they?

Plus: Israel got the bomb in the 50s.

(Oh, sorry. I see this was already addressed.)

OK, this depends onwhther you think it's largely state-sponsored (as you seem to) or basically just a group of crazies who receive support from citizens of certain states, quite often ones where the US is actually pretty pally with the government. You seem to get a lot more Saudi, Pakistani and Egyptian terrorists than Iranian of Iraqi ones. What exactly is attacking random Islamic states going to do to help. War only happens between states. Otherwise its just crime.

OK, this depends onwhther you think it's largely state-sponsored (as you seem to) or basically just a group of crazies who receive support from citizens of certain states, quite often ones where the US is actually pretty pally with the government. You seem to get a lot more Saudi, Pakistani and Egyptian terrorists than Iranian of Iraqi ones. What exactly is attacking random Islamic states going to do to help. War only happens between states. Otherwise its just crime.
Definately. And you cannot equate Iran with Saudi Arabia - and this ONLY because Shiias do not get along with Sunnis. Remember Iran vs. Iraq?

If Iran getting nukes really would be the end of everything, then why hasn't Isreal attacked them/production facilities (unless I've missed something and they already have)? Clearly if they have concrete proof that Iran will use them to obliterate them then they should be able to go in and stop that from happening shouldn't they?


I am sure they will.

I am all FOR the withdrawal, unless it is just a scheme of Sharon's to have his way in the West Bank. All this talk about Islam "inciting genocide" does not make sense. There is nothing in the Koran that would point at Judaism, and you can find a lot of points agains persecuting Hebrews (no matter how undignified and contemptible the Hamas may be - the fact is that Hebrews had a better chance of being held in esteem throughout the Moslem world, if I was to mention just Maimonides being Chancellor of Cordoba).
The problem of religion is a most recent thing, giving that all the "perils" faced by Israel (conveniently pointed as the representative of "the civilised world" - bypassing all the issues that Hebrews might've just as well had with the persecuting European states - just 3 years before the formation of Israel), all were produced by secular regimes, even socialistic ones (backed by the USSR). A violent, and utterly new form of Islam has been generated by decades of neglect, and the incoherent (even murderous) policies of Arab states. Even if it were a mainstream ideal (which it is not) you could not possibly prosecute people who do not, and will not, act on it.
Israel has been acting, throughout this, as a state of limited legitimacy. In my eyes, it is legitimised, it shouldn't cease to exist etc. But it is a very "quaint" construction. For starters, according to law ther (correct me if I'm wrong) you cannot be a citizen unless you are Jewish. The notion is forever ill-defined - what makes one Jewish? (being a recently converted Ethiopian seemed to work, even being an atheist, a communist, a Druze from those brought over in the 80s, but you cannot be a Christian - though with a Jewish mother). It is also absurd, given that there are Arab citizens - as such, automatically (by badly concieved law) second-rate. And what about people in the occupied territories? South Africa got banned from several forums for having this kind of policy, but it didn't have eternal US backing...

Incidentally, I am a nominal Christian Orthodox.


Gaza and the west bank are both, incredibly small, “Disputed” territories, in a very small country. There are individual Americans who own more land.

Focusing on Israel, is missing the big picture. The “Palestinians” could get all of the West Bank, all of Gaza, Jerusalem and Golan and it would not bring a shred of peace.

Just as there is not peace in Serbia, India, Thailand, Russia or any of the Islamic Conflicts in Africa.

This is not just an extremist from of Islam or even a new one. It was not “Extremism” that lead Islam to conquer Spain or make a tower of Christian Skulls in Serbia. It was not extremism that lead to the bloody takeover of Christian Lebanon and it is not extremism that compels the similar takeover in The Ivory Coast.

It is doctrine. They kill in this order, Pagan, Polytheist, Jew, Christian and Atheist. Priorities of course may shift slightly, when logistics necessitate.

I am sure they will.

Always the chance America will try and get them first though. :p Hopefully it will not have to come to anything like that but given the pattern of the middle east nothing is for sure.

Sure. And you're only "moderately" racist. Fair is fair.


Islam is an Ideology, not a race.

If you want a good example of Racism, try listening to the political opinions of one Indian Moslem by the name of Salman Khan. Listen to how he talks about how proud he is o his “Aryan Heritage” and how proud he is of all the Hindus Khan Murdered.

Or try the Palestinian Authority web page.

Or look at some old pictures of Arafat’s Uncle negotiating with Hitler.

Or try a more modern picture of the Palestinians giving Nazi Salutes.

Plus: Israel got the bomb in the 50s.

(Oh, sorry. I see this was already addressed.)


When you are outnumbered two hundred and forty to one by people who want to exterminate you and they have Soviet Backing, then you sure as hell need big guns to protect yourself.

Now Israel has been attacked several times and through several wars and has had non-stop missile bombardment from Syria and Iraq and has not used full arsenal to defend itself. In fact, no other country has shown such restraint. If the Palestinians showed up in France making the claims they are in Israel, they would have been removed long ago. In America, not only would their homes be bulldozed but they would all spend the rest of their lives in prison as accomplices.

In China, they would have their name replaced by a number and they would never be heard from Again.

Islam is an Ideology, not a race.

If you want a good example of Racism, try listening to the political opinions of one Indian Moslem by the name of Salman Khan. Listen to how he talks about how proud he is o his “Aryan Heritage” and how proud he is of all the Hindus Khan Murdered.

Or try the Palestinian Authority web page.

Or look at some old pictures of Arafat’s Uncle negotiating with Hitler.

Or try a more modern picture of the Palestinians giving Nazi Salutes.

Call it whatever you want. It's still irrational hate, and when I see, I don't need to wonder why it is people there kill each other. You guys deserve each other, you really do.

I'm of the not-so-humble opinion that the entire Middle East should be nuked until it becomes a sheet of glass, and then be used as parking for more rational people. No more Israel. No more Iran. No more Iraq, Saudi Arabia or anything else.

Then maybe the world can get on with more pressing issues, like staring at the lint in our pockets.

But wait a minute, the International Muslim Hive-Mind possesses nuclear weapons, in Pakistan! As we know that all Muslims are consumed with a desire to destroy all unbelievers, how have they restrained themselves form using them on India, or whoever else happens to be around?

OK, this depends onwhther you think it's largely state-sponsored (as you seem to) or basically just a group of crazies who receive support from citizens of certain states, quite often ones where the US is actually pretty pally with the government. You seem to get a lot more Saudi, Pakistani and Egyptian terrorists than Iranian of Iraqi ones. What exactly is attacking random Islamic states going to do to help. War only happens between states. Otherwise its just crime.


Individual leaders have their individual interests.

Pakistan is currently lead by a Communist, more Atheistic than Saddam ever was. His primary interest is surviving, so we can count on him not launching the Nukes on India, but if anything happens to him, there is a good chance the Clerics will take charge. That is bad news, very bad, on the order of Iran Acquiring Nuclear Weapons.

The Saudis, like Jordan are interested in maintaining their “Royal Dynasties”. They are religious, but rational, ruling over large populations that are not. They make compromises and lack morality, but their self interest makes them controllable and dependent on us.

They do not want to become the Shah. Carter betrayed the Shah and we have not recovered control of Iran since.

Terrorists, have an easier time coming from these wealthy countries than from Xenophobic Iran. They are better educated and have open doors. This is what makes them more effective and their leaders, frankly can not stop them. I prefer to deal with terrorists than to dealing with an equal military adversary myself so I am willing to accept terrorists from Saudi Arabia, as opposed to Nuclear Missiles from Iran.

There is a matter of logistics as well. We can move our forces in to Iran from both sides, because we have Iraq. If we tried to attack Iran first, we could only have gone in from one side and Iran would have been a far greater threat than Iraq.

We can also close in on Syria, letting Israel handle its own side. This is a simple matter of Geography, Zones of Control and Resources.

We do not have to occupy or rebuild anyone. It is frankly, not in our best interests to do so.

Gaza and the west bank are both, incredibly small, “Disputed” territories, in a very small country. There are individual Americans who own more land.

Focusing on Israel, is missing the big picture. The “Palestinians” could get all of the West Bank, all of Gaza, Jerusalem and Golan and it would not bring a shred of peace.

Just as there is not peace in Serbia, India, Thailand, Russia or any of the Islamic Conflicts in Africa.

This is not just an extremist from of Islam or even a new one. It was not “Extremism” that lead Islam to conquer Spain or make a tower of Christian Skulls in Serbia. It was not extremism that lead to the bloody takeover of Christian Lebanon and it is not extremism that compels the similar takeover in The Ivory Coast.

It is doctrine. They kill in this order, Pagan, Polytheist, Jew, Christian and Atheist. Priorities of course may shift slightly, when logistics necessitate.
I'm sorry, come again? What tower of skulls? In Serbia? I happen to live in a country next door to it, in a 500-years occupation under Moslem rule. It was, on the whole pretty ok. I mean, I did see mentions of pyramids of skulls: the Serbians and Croats on each-other, for 40 years, and on the defenseless Moslem population in 1995. Remember? defenseless, fought against with the same "logic" that enforced the murder of 6 million Jews (of which - or even, adding to it, 200 000 or maybe even 400 000 by my very own nation, a murder which still goes undocumented, and is largely ignored).
Europe can build pyramids of skulls. To touch a sensitive subject, on an arguably smaller scale, so can fanatics in your country (in 1948, and as bystanders in the 80s). So can fanatics everywhere!
In fact, to glue together the corrupt but benign Ottoman Empire, its chief adversaries in Saudi Arabia, the Hamas of today and God knows whom else, to induce the notion that they are part of a conspiracy, to define common and arresting character traits for 1 billion people worldwide, to do all of this is para-logical. It is either propaganda, or its very product.

And you might want to check the Nazi credentials of the Phalangist movement, to see exactly whom Israel backed in Lebanon.

Also, I fail to see what your grievance against Islam in Spain really IS. Aside from the cliches (all of them favorable: "the introduction of culture to Western Europe after the Dark Ages", "a unique blend of cultures"), it was an example of a state and an establishment. Persecution? Yes, the Christians, aftere the fall of Cordoba, against Moslems and Jews alike.

Call it whatever you want. It's still irrational hate, and when I see, I don't need to wonder why it is people there kill each other. You guys deserve each other, you really do.

I'm of the not-so-humble opinion that the entire Middle East should be nuked until it becomes a sheet of glass, and then be used as parking for more rational people. No more Israel. No more Iran. No more Iraq, Saudi Arabia or anything else.

Then maybe the world can get on with more pressing issues, like staring at the lint in our pockets.


Without Israel, they would just focus on destroying India or blowing up trains in Russia or burning Serbian Churches or taking slaves in Darfur or seizing control of Chocolate Plantations on the Ivory Coast.

Get the point, Israel is tiny, Islam is big and at war with “Everyone”. You can’t get peace by sacrificing Jews to them.

But wait a minute, the International Muslim Hive-Mind possesses nuclear weapons, in Pakistan! As we know that all Muslims are consumed with a desire to destroy all unbelievers, how have they restrained themselves form using them on India, or whoever else happens to be around?


One Communist Dictator, let us all hope he survives long enough to screw up Pakistan’s military defenses to the point that we can deal with them. if the Clerics take over, India is good as Nuked.

I'm sorry, come again? What tower of skulls? In Serbia? I happen to live in a country next door to it, in a 500-years occupation under Moslem rule. It was, on the whole pretty ok. I mean, I did see mentions of pyramids of skulls: the Serbians and Croats on each-other, for 40 years, and on the defenseless Moslem population in 1995. Remember? defenseless, fought against with the same "logic" that enforced the murder of 6 million Jews (of which - or even, adding to it, 200 000 or maybe even 400 000 by my very own nation, a murder which still goes undocumented, and is largely ignored).
Europe can build pyramids of skulls. To touch a sensitive subject, on an arguably smaller scale, so can fanatics in your country (in 1948, and as bystanders in the 80s). So can fanatics everywhere!
In fact, to glue together the corrupt but benign Ottoman Empire, its chief adversaries in Saudi Arabia, the Hamas of today and God knows whom else, to induce the notion that they are part of a conspiracy, to define common and arresting character traits for 1 billion people worldwide, to do all of this is para-logical. It is either propaganda, or its very product.


Here is a picture of the Tower of Skulls.

Frankly, the mountain of evidence against the Serbs in Clinton’s little Jihad is turning out to be a Molehill. The Serbs were fighting terrorists and thanks to America, the terrorists are winning.

http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/Chele-kula.jpg

I don’t think your being occupied by Moslems was “Pretty OK”. To think that I would have to swallow the incredible biased and revisionist version of politically correct history and completely disregard things like mountains of bodies and exactly which Religion showed up on the other’s doorstep offering slavery to all those who would not fight to the death.

Then after being responsible for one World War, took the Nazi side in the next one because they were in ideological agreement. Not just about Jews, but about Christians as well. After all, we did trick you all in to thinking Christ died on the cross didn’t we?

Don’t by every fiction about us that Arabs put out. We don’t celebrate human remains, dragging them through streets and decorating our homes with trophy body parts, it wouldn’t be Kosher. Anyone who “touches” a body is unclean.

Of course Arabs have a different opinion. Want some pictures? I warn you they are pretty bloody.

Individual leaders have their individual interests.

Pakistan is currently lead by a Communist, more Atheistic than Saddam ever was. His primary interest is surviving, so we can count on him not launching the Nukes on India, but if anything happens to him, there is a good chance the Clerics will take charge. That is bad news, very bad, on the order of Iran Acquiring Nuclear Weapons.

The Saudis, like Jordan are interested in maintaining their “Royal Dynasties”. They are religious, but rational, ruling over large populations that are not. They make compromises and lack morality, but their self interest makes them controllable and dependent on us.

They do not want to become the Shah. Carter betrayed the Shah and we have not recovered control of Iran since.

Terrorists, have an easier time coming from these wealthy countries than from Xenophobic Iran. They are better educated and have open doors. This is what makes them more effective and their leaders, frankly can not stop them. I prefer to deal with terrorists than to dealing with an equal military adversary myself so I am willing to accept terrorists from Saudi Arabia, as opposed to Nuclear Missiles from Iran.

There is a matter of logistics as well. We can move our forces in to Iran from both sides, because we have Iraq. If we tried to attack Iran first, we could only have gone in from one side and Iran would have been a far greater threat than Iraq.

We can also close in on Syria, letting Israel handle its own side. This is a simple matter of Geography, Zones of Control and Resources.

We do not have to occupy or rebuild anyone. It is frankly, not in our best interests to do so.

So we have at least agreed that terrorism has nothing to do with the states you're planning to attack, and that it's the looming invasion of Israel by Iran and Syria that's getting your goat, and the only people you can expect to support you are those who honestly believe that Iran's planning to actually drop the bomb, instead of just improving its negotiating position and making sure it doesn't go the way of Iraq and Afghanistan?

One at a time.


http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/Chele-kula.jpg
The link is from a site linked to Srpska. I could just as well listen to the Neo-Nazis explaing either the "myth" of the Holocaust, or its "necessity". I cannot possibly do that.

I don’t think your being occupied by Moslems was “Pretty OK”. To think that I would have to swallow the incredible biased and revisionist version of politically correct history and completely disregard things like mountains of bodies and exactly which Religion showed up on the other’s doorstep offering slavery to all those who would not fight to the death.
No, it is me having lived in Romania. It is me having visited Macedonia, Bulgaria and Serbia. It is the knowledge of historical FACT. Even if I were to take on a biased ideology about this area, the most common would be that we in the Balkans are the cradle of violence - mostly as Christians, for most of "Balkanism" has been set by the fall of the Empire.

Then after being responsible for one World War
How do you figure? WW1 was set in motion by a stupid man taking the Russian-Serb side in Bosnia, not by Moslems. Actually, it was set by the Austrian need to inquire the murder commited by this guy, deep in Serbian territory. And this was by no means the cause. And the war was marked by terrible internal fighting inside the Islamic areas - mainly, Ottoman vs. wahhabi. Ever heard of that?

took the Nazi side in the next one
Turkey was neutral, and Bosnians were mainly victims of the Croats (even the few ones that joined the SS had their families murdered at home, and by their nominal allies).
You may be alluding to the mufti of Jerusalem, but who the hell followed him? And what nationalism didn't have it's catered form of Nazisms. Much more popular versions, for example, developed in British-occupied Hindu lands. And, after all, Nazism (and Fascism, in this instance not necesarilly anti-semitic) was either Christian, or a Christian by-product, Which, if anything, should lead you to the conclusion that Christianity is bound to become Nazism. Does it?
After all, we did trick you all in to thinking Christ died on the cross didn’t we?
The question about this in Islam is aimed at the Christians who believe it. The Jews are not made responsible, or if they are it is the same as "us" saying you murdered Jesus - which is a fringe and idiotic point.

Anyone who “touches” a body is unclean
Blood is not to be touched or drawn - so says the Koran, no matter what butchers who claim to be following it do.

And by God, if you meant this as a comment on the murders by the Irgun or the Phalangists, I'm sure they are not propaganda. No matter what happened, though, I would not dream of establishing it a "trait" of the Jewish people (not even of Israeli soldiers). I do not think in these terms, I never see the point of collective responsability.

So we have at least agreed that terrorism has nothing to do with the states you're planning to attack, and that it's the looming invasion of Israel by Iran and Syria that's getting your goat, and the only people you can expect to support you are those who honestly believe that Iran's planning to actually drop the bomb, instead of just improving its negotiating position and making sure it doesn't go the way of Iraq and Afghanistan?


I wonder what was said of Churchill, maybe that Hitler just wanted to improve his “Negotiating Position”. Iran has been a thorn in the side of the free world for twenty five years now and have we stormed them? America could obliterate them at any time, but shows restraint, as does Israel.

They declare their intention is to destroy Israel, they have sent shiploads of weapons to the Palestinians in order to achieve this aim, has Israel bombed them? They should show some gratitude to Israel for having kept Saddam’s Nuclear Program in tatters.

The Iranian Missiles say “Death to Israel” on them. The Iranians voted to continue their Nuclear Program by saying “Death to America” and you think they just want to improve their negotiating position?

I like the negotiating position they are in now, the one where they can not achieve their genocidal objective.

One at a time.



The link is from a site linked to Srpska. I could just as well listen to the Neo-Nazis explaing either the "myth" of the Holocaust, or its "necessity". I cannot possibly do that.


No, it is me having lived in Romania. It is me having visited Macedonia, Bulgaria and Serbia. It is the knowledge of historical FACT. Even if I were to take on a biased ideology about this area, the most common would be that we in the Balkans are the cradle of violence - mostly as Christians, for most of "Balkanism" has been set by the fall of the Empire.


How do you figure? WW1 was set in motion by a stupid man taking the Russian-Serb side in Bosnia, not by Moslems. Actually, it was set by the Austrian need to inquire the murder commited by this guy, deep in Serbian territory. And this was by no means the cause. And the war was marked by terrible internal fighting inside the Islamic areas - mainly, Ottoman vs. wahhabi. Ever heard of that?


Turkey was neutral, and Bosnians were mainly victims of the Croats (even the few ones that joined the SS had their families murdered at home, and by their nominal allies).
You may be alluding to the mufti of Jerusalem, but who the hell followed him? And what nationalism didn't have it's catered form of Nazisms. Much more popular versions, for example, developed in British-occupied Hindu lands. And, after all, Nazism (and Fascism, in this instance not necesarilly anti-semitic) was either Christian, or a Christian by-product, Which, if anything, should lead you to the conclusion that Christianity is bound to become Nazism. Does it?

The question about this in Islam is aimed at the Christians who believe it. The Jews are not made responsible, or if they are it is the same as "us" saying you murdered Jesus - which is a fringe and idiotic point.


Blood is not to be touched or drawn - so says the Koran, no matter what butchers who claim to be following it do.

And by God, if you meant this as a comment on the murders by the Irgun or the Phalangists, I'm sure they are not propaganda. No matter what happened, though, I would not dream of establishing it a "trait" of the Jewish people (not even of Israeli soldiers). I do not think in these terms, I never see the point of collective responsability.


Chele Kula is pretty well known, how about you go to Google and Search for it? I am tired of guiding you around your own region.

Who followed the Blasted Egyptian, how about Arafat? How about the entire founding membership of the PLO?

We all know about the botched assassination, the lucky bastard at the café and the idiot who refused medical treatment. but how did this begin, but with the decline of the Ottoman and what they left behind? Spain learned to run an Empire from Moslems too, so did your own Vlad “The Impaler”, learn his interesting habits, in a Moslem Prison.

When was Turkey ever Neutral, when they were slaughtering Armenians perhaps? Maybe when they went charging after France as a distraction while The Germans withdrew from collapsing Russia? Turkey was in no official position to take any side in later conflicts, but the nazis never had trouble finding Moslems who sympathize with them.

You call Nazism Christian, because you have no read enough of what Hitler wrote. He saw Christianity as a Jewish Invention designed in his words to “Burden Aryans with a Conscience” and he saw the Crucifixion as an act of Ethnic Cleansing. In his words, “Correcting a Cosmic Mistake”. They were Pagans, they idealized myths of Dwarves and Dragons and Woden and Mead Halls and when they were done burning Synagogues, they started burning Churches.

Religion is no different than Ideology. Ideological Governments like Religious Governments, depend on their Homogenous Assortment in order to remain stable. Communists who stop oppressing religion, are immediately replaced by theocracies.

Islam, is a lot like, “The last Temptation of Christ”, in exactly how it addresses Christianity. “Allah covered the eyes of the Non-Believers”, that is, lied to Christ’s followers, assisting us in deceiving them all as to his “Ascension”. An “Angel” came down and took him off the cross. Isn’t that wonderful. The best part is, they think he is coming back with a few other prophets and any of you who do not accept that he is nothing but a lesser prophet, licking Mohammed’s Boots, will be killed by him and cast in to eternal damnation.

But look at the bright side, this won’t be able to happen, while we Rule Jerusalem.

“Smite them above their necks” So Says “The Koran”. You can try that one on without drawing blood.

Phalangists, you mean those Christians who lost their families and took it out on the people who were harboring their murderers? Did not do a very good job of turning the other cheek did they? Shame. Watch me weep and moan on behalf of the Poor Syrians whose bloody path through Lebanon ended in their own demise.

As for the Irgun, they have gotten a pretty bad rap, mostly in an effort to Slander men like Sharon. You knock over a couple of buildings after fighting Guerillas and suddenly you are responsible for the people they hid. Do not confuse Irgun with that idiot who we forked over to British authorities. That Hotel Fiasco was almost as stupid as sending “Negotiators” to Hitler. They never came back and anyone stupid enough to walk back to Germany would not have done us any good anyway.

For that matter, we should not bother negotiating with Moslems either.

Chele Kula is pretty well known, how about you go to Google and Search for it? I am tired of guiding you around your own region
Whatever, man. Massacres happened throughout. Ever heard of Srebrenica? Mostar?
If this event is meant to have happened in the 1990s in Srpska, it is a lie (for it is impossible). Otherwise, if it's something meant to be linked with the Ottomans, then we should be talking of what mercenary armies did at any time during the past millenium. I do not know if these can in any way be linked to religion.

We all know about the botched assassination, the lucky bastard at the café and the idiot who refused medical treatment. but how did this begin, but with the decline of the Ottoman and what they left behind? Spain learned to run an Empire from Moslems too, so did your own Vlad “The Impaler”, learn his interesting habits, in a Moslem Prison.
Oh, the Ottomans MEANT to perish - just to cause troubles for this part of Europe. Right, I get it. And then, the Russians and Austrians were just in for us. I just read a document in which the Sultan offered a Romanian prince (late in the 1700s) money for the maintainance and army command so that the Wallachians don't give in to the Russians and Austrians. He procrastinated, and when the Austrians came, he was led to Bohemia and spent quite a while in prison there.
What about Vlad? He was an incompetent ruler, not worth mentioning.
And Spain? If anything, they were the exact opposite of the Ottomans - in administrating, in army-buildup., in resources.
And Spain went straight to the bottom in a quarter the time it took the Turks to do it. And it was mainly BECAUSE they ran an Empire. They flooded the market with American silver, cause they thought they had the monopoly - and it destroyed their economy. Incidentally, it also shook the Ottoman one - partly causing the decay. Their monnetary systems, the only similarity, was based on silver. And the Romanian principalities got a good shaking out of it - no prince ever again dreamed of issuing a local currency.
That is the true history! See the capital works of Braudel.

When was Turkey ever Neutral, when they were slaughtering Armenians perhaps? Maybe when they went charging after France as a distraction while The Germans withdrew from collapsing Russia? Turkey was in no official position to take any side in later conflicts, but the nazis never had trouble finding Moslems who sympathize with them.
I meant WW 2. I bet you'll say that they were not Moslem, but Ataturkian. Anyway, same generalizations.

You call Nazism Christian, because you have no read enough of what Hitler wrote. He saw Christianity as a Jewish Invention designed in his words to “Burden Aryans with a Conscience” and he saw the Crucifixion as an act of Ethnic Cleansing. In his words, “Correcting a Cosmic Mistake”. They were Pagans, they idealized myths of Dwarves and Dragons and Woden and Mead Halls and when they were done burning Synagogues, they started burning Churches.
I called it "a byproduct". And it was backed by clerical regimes and had Catholic and Orthodox versions - I mean, Nazisms motivated by these. Ever heard of the Iron Guard? Or Mgr. Tiso? Or the Fallangists? Same complex relationships.
Anyway, if not "Christian", it was "baptised". And the Nazis were more into controlling religion, rather than denying it. They never took on Christianity - though, I agree, to Hitler this would've been a perk, and would've gotten around to it. His followers could be very devout church-goers, who had been learning the lesson of secularism, as it preached by Protestantism. This ambiguity is ever-present.

Religion is no different than Ideology. Ideological Governments like Religious Governments, depend on their Homogenous Assortment in order to remain stable. Communists who stop oppressing religion, are immediately replaced by theocracies.
What? Where? My country was communist too! Have you seen our current President? Does he look like a Patriarch?

Islam, is a lot like, “The last Temptation of Christ”, in exactly how it addresses Christianity. “Allah covered the eyes of the Non-Believers”, that is, lied to Christ’s followers, assisting us in deceiving them all as to his “Ascension”. An “Angel” came down and took him off the cross. Isn’t that wonderful. The best part is, they think he is coming back with a few other prophets and any of you who do not accept that he is nothing but a lesser prophet, licking Mohammed’s Boots, will be killed by him and cast in to eternal damnation.
I know the "story". It has parallels in Christian Gnosis, though I do not mean this as a credential.
I tried to point out that this is, if anything, a polemics with the Christians - not the Hebrews.

But look at the bright side, this won’t be able to happen, while we Rule Jerusalem.
I know there's a lot of snake-handlers in the US who see the world in these terms, but you'll not have made sense with me.

Phalangists, you mean those Christians who lost their families and took it out on the people who were harboring their murderers? Did not do a very good job of turning the other cheek did they? Shame. Watch me weep and moan on behalf of the Poor Syrians whose bloody path through Lebanon ended in their own demise.
No, I mean the movement that started as a fascist faction in the 30s. The one that was at ease while Moslems where not the majority (since they topped the constitutional pyramid) and than panicked and started random attacks.

As for the Irgun, they have gotten a pretty bad rap, mostly in an effort to Slander men like Sharon. You knock over a couple of buildings after fighting Guerillas and suddenly you are responsible for the people they hid. Do not confuse Irgun with that idiot who we forked over to British authorities. That Hotel Fiasco was almost as stupid as sending “Negotiators” to Hitler. They never came back and anyone stupid enough to walk back to Germany would not have done us any good anyway.
Right... The murders of the Irgun are fiascos, easily dissmissable. But let us not forget the killings in Arab villages, as part of the ethnic cleansing in '48-'49. As usually, when nobody is watching.

But wait a minute, the International Muslim Hive-Mind possesses nuclear weapons, in Pakistan! As we know that all Muslims are consumed with a desire to destroy all unbelievers, how have they restrained themselves form using them on India, or whoever else happens to be around?

Just a small clarification on this issue.

Apart from having a declared first strike position, Pakistani officials have also threatened using nukes a lot of times at various times, ever since they had a working bomb in 1983.

Reason why India cannot cross the Line of Control and go after the terrorist training camps situated across. Reason why Pakistan attempted to change status quo by the Kargil intrusion.

Restrain? hardly. It did not restrain anything. Paki nukes are sustaining their hostile behavior in Afghanistan and Kashmir.

Just a small clarification on this issue.

Apart from having a declared first strike position, Pakistani officials have also threatened using nukes a lot of times at various times, ever since they had a working bomb in 1983.

Reason why India cannot cross the Line of Control and go after the terrorist training camps situated across. Reason why Pakistan attempted to change status quo by the Kargil intrusion.

Restrain? hardly. It did not restrain anything. Paki nukes are sustaining their hostile behavior in Afghanistan and Kashmir.
Oh, politics in Afghanistan are set set against India? I see. And what would they be? A panicked Musharraf, trying to save face in front of the US and avoiding getting linched by the fanatcs at home?

I was hoping to avoid people who play stupid word games to excuse Genocide.
LOL, man, Yeru you're really sick in your head. Now Velo is one that excuses genocide? Please show us were he said that, that guy always was a antinazi.I had many debates wih him and never saw so, now you as a newcommer say such awfull things that we might want to see some proof. And don't come back with your classic and unvalllid excuse in a debate: I think he said it somewhere but I can not find it back

Perhaps he critisises your racisme and your abslolutely disrespect for Jews that have another opinion then yours? I think you're the nazi here.(methods, language, dirty tricks, attacks on other ones religion aso. :rolleyes: ).
You really need professional help, in fact, I even don't think you are a Jew, you're only plan here is spreading antisemitisme and demonise real Jews with your racist posts and your disguise as a extremist Zionist.

Give us some facts where old Velo did excuse any kind of genocide I guess you're not talking about Rwanda here or other genocides then the Jewish one ;) but what real Jews call the shoa and Europeans and other people call "the Hollocaust" (one of the many in history). "Many", like the current one in Palestine (not gassing but shooting a random the Palestinians is not a excuse for not talking about genocide)are allready lasting longer (regardless the number of victims, families are knowing it decades by now) then the one that happened between jully 1941 (first use of the Einsatgruppen in Russia near the Babbi Yar-ravin) till beginning of april 1945 (Himmlers order to stop shooting Jews on the death marches while retreating from the death camps that fell in Soviet and even some in the west, in allied hands). Of course, the people of the resistance,Russian POWS, gipsies and the jailed plotters of the Whermacht- and Abwehr-resistance against Hitler like Admiral Canaris (jully '44 complot) together with theologists like Dietrich Bonhoefer were killed till the verry last last days.

You're crazy when you say that people like Velo excuse for genocide with wordgames. I think that he undermined your position when you posted a photo of some middle eastern people with a stiff upper arm while accusing the arabs of being anti semite. He replied and took you by the balls when he said that both people are semites.

A real Jew would know that, another example that you're just some extreme right neocon that pretends being a Jew. Your rascisme says enough, all knowed Jews and Israelites on NS are ashamed by your posts.

I am tired of guiding you around your own region.


just like I am tired of guiding one that pretends to be a Jew around WWII and the Hollocaust. Well, that is not completely honnest since I worked as a historyteacher before moving to my beloved mountains and have WWII and history still as a specialised hobby.

BTW, since your not a Jew (but only use the cover to atack Arabs) may I call you Dirlewanger? Or Stoop?
Yeah,you'll need to google them since you know shit by heart.

BTW, sine your not a Jew (but only use the cover to atack Arabs) may I call you Dirlewanger? Or Stoop?
Yeah,you'll need to google them since you know shit by heart.
I can agree to your point - they are, largely, the ones I am making. But let's keep it civilised.
I know, I've seen the horrid things written by some users (such as "Vishnu", or whatever it was), but I still think it should not degenerate further.

Oh, politics in Afghanistan are set set against India?

Yes. It is called Strategic depth policy of Pakistan. Google for it.


I see. And what would they be? A panicked Musharraf, trying to save face in front of the US and avoiding getting linched by the fanatcs at home?

LOL. What fanatics?

You mean the MMA party people which came to power in NWFP because Musharraf engineered a split in the popular PML party?

What is the difference between the mullah and military in Pakistan ?

Nothing. Military wears uniform and come to the western countries and put on nice suit and boot and mouth something about being against terrorism and ask for aid. Then they go back home and do nothing against the Kashmiri jihadi groups and the taliban. That's about it.

Two sides of the same coin.

I can agree to your point - they are, largely, the ones I am making. But let's keep it civilised.
I know, I've seen the horrid things written by some users (such as "Vishnu", or whatever it was), but I still think it should not degenerate further.

Please explain yourself Argesia?
My tone is civilised and argumented, Yeru is just bashing around with a knife here.
What is your point? I am open for any debate. (hmmm, make that most debates, I don't like nazi's, specially not when they pretend to be Jewish to attack Jews by that, the utimate strategy for them).

Then they go back home and do nothing against the Kashmiri jihadi groups and the taliban. That's about it.

Two sides of the same coin.
Your grievances are to be addressed to... perhaps five succesive american administations? Backing the Taliban, making sure that Pakistan is well-protected against India and India's ally (do not deny it!) the USSR?
Funny thing. If you're trying to find common ground with Israel, you're heading into deadmarshes. Israel was backed for reasons similar, at the exact time.
Wasn't Pakistan inside American-based treaty organizations? Hm. Weren't those "good Saudi boys" in it because their cause was bound to stick around? Hm.

I think we should re-center this whole discussion; the topic here is the Israeli withdrawl.

I believe that the withdrawl was a good step but we must continue to see the dismantlement of the settlements....

As to my religion, i am an aetheist with an upbringing in a christian, jewish, and arab community.

Please explain yourself Argesia?
My tone is civilised and argumented, Yeru is just bashing around with a knife here.
What is your point? I am open for any debate. (hmmm, make that most debates, I don't like nazi's, specially not when they pretend to be Jewish to attack Jews by that, the utimate strategy for them).
I guess I over-reacted. I didn't get the exact sense of your profanity :) .
You can see my point in my previous posts. I'm deep in a polemics with Yeru... though i think he went offline now.

I guess I over-reacted. I didn't get the exact sense of your profanity :) .
You can see my point in my previous posts. I'm deep in a polemics with Yeru...

I know,I followed the debate since the beginning. Must say to that if any European or Arab would have charged the way Yeru did with his attacks towards religion and Arabs in the same style and with the same words against Jews, he allready would have been banned by the Mods since his first posts.Just a constatation. :rolleyes:

Kindest regards, have to leave now.

I know,I followed the debate since the beginning. Must say to that if any European or Arab would have charged the way Yeru did with his attacks towards religion and Arabs in the same style and with the same words against Jews, he allready would have been banned by the Mods since his first posts.Just a constatation. :rolleyes:

Kindest regards, have to leave now.
I totally agree, but am not planning to ban him myself. Meme si c'etait juste une constatation.
See you around.

I think we should re-center this whole discussion; the topic here is the Israeli withdrawl.

I believe that the withdrawl was a good step but we must continue to see the dismantlement of the settlements....

As to my religion, i am an aetheist with an upbringing in a christian, jewish, and arab community.
You mean: Jewish and Christian Arab, or Jewish, Christian and Moslem?

So... who is still around?

You mean: Jewish and Christian Arab, or Jewish, Christian and Moslem?

I knew i should have been clearer....
christian values; jewish friends, with jewish culture; and arab friends with arab culture. I realize that i am over simplifying, i can clarify if anyone needs it.

In terms of religion, i know a good bit of each (Christian, Judaism, Islam), though obviously as an aetheist, i follow none of them...

Your grievances are to be addressed to... perhaps five succesive american administations? Backing the Taliban, making sure that Pakistan is well-protected against India and India's ally (do not deny it!) the USSR?

I have come to the conclusion that India's struggle with islamist terrorism has to be fought by India alone and no sympathy/ understanding/help is to be expected from any other country, including so-called natural allies - the US/UK and other democracies.

India's alliance with USSR was strictly business (and some veto help in UNSC). There was no way we could avoid it because superior US weapons were supplied to their client state Pakistan under SEATO and CENTO and what not and after the 1962 Chinese invasion of India, it became clear that we cannot manage it on our own.

By putting India's "alliance" with USSR as the reason why US allied with Pakistan is putting the cart before the horse.

Funny thing. If you're trying to find common ground with Israel, you're heading into deadmarshes. Israel was backed for reasons similar, at the exact time.

Israel has been a true friend of India. They are probably the only country which has not played both sides.

Israel suppplied much needed ammunition when we were caught with our pants down in Kargil.

Israeli hi-tech heat sensors mounted on the fence in Kashmir helps in tracking and ambushing and killing the jihadis before they can infiltrate populated areas and cause mayhem.

For that and for that alone, I am profoundly grateful to Israel.

That said, I do not agree with the disproportional retaliation philosophy of Israel and I am for a Palestinian state based on the UN mandate.

Wasn't Pakistan inside American-based treaty organizations? Hm. Weren't those "good Saudi boys" in it because their cause was bound to stick around? Hm.

Yes. SEATO and CENTO.

Saudis bankrolled the "Islamic Bomb" of Zia-ul-Haq. They even supplied oil for free for coupla years. Libyans also pitched in. The grateful Pakis even named a cricket stadium as Gaddafi stadium.

But apparently, the proliferation from Pakis to Libya came as a surprise to the US. :rolleyes:

I have digressed much. Apologies to all.

I knew i should have been clearer....
christian values; jewish friends, with jewish culture; and arab friends with arab culture. I realize that i am over simplifying, i can clarify if anyone needs it.
No, I get you. It's just that I don't usually equate Moslems with Arabs and vice-versa (not all Arabs are Moslem, not all Moslems are Arabs - so Arabic could mean Christian or Moslem. Up to the Xth century or so, even Jewish or pagan.)

I wasn't equating the religion, but rather the culture...
Regardless of the religion, the Arabs I am referring to have a common culture, be they Christian or Muslim. I know "Arab" was a bad choose of words, I am actually referring to the Palestinian, Jordanian, Lebanese culture. Once again I am generalizing, culture is not bounded by nationality.
:headbang:

I have come to the conclusion that India's struggle with islamist terrorism has to be fought by India alone and no sympathy/ understanding/help is to be expected from any other country, including so-called natural allies - the US/UK and other democracies.

India's alliance with USSR was strictly business (and some veto help in UNSC). There was no way we could avoid it because superior US weapons were supplied to their client state Pakistan under SEATO and CENTO and what not and after the 1962 Chinese invasion of India, it became clear that we cannot manage it on our own.

By putting India's "alliance" with USSR as the reason why US allied with Pakistan is putting the cart before the horse.

Israel has been a true friend of India. They are probably the only country which has not played both sides.

Israel suppplied much needed ammunition when we were caught with our pants down in Kargil.

Israeli hi-tech heat sensors mounted on the fence in Kashmir helps in tracking and ambushing and killing the jihadis before they can infiltrate populated areas and cause mayhem.

For that and for that alone, I am profoundly grateful to Israel.

That said, I do not agree with the disproportional retaliation philosophy of Israel and I am for a Palestinian state based on the UN mandate.



Yes. SEATO and CENTO.

Saudis bankrolled the "Islamic Bomb" of Zia-ul-Haq. They even supplied oil for free for coupla years. Libyans also pitched in. The grateful Pakis even named a cricket stadium as Gaddafi stadium.

But apparently, the proliferation from Pakis to Libya came as a surprise to the US. :rolleyes:

I have digressed much. Apologies to all.
Just to clarify my point. (I too apologise)
I am not trying to point a Soviet alliance as a fault, so you needent be deffensive. I think the Soviets did a lot of good in the de-colonized world, not necessarily because they meant to.
I did not cite it as a reason, but it certainly was an everpresent notion in the planning that America did: the alliance was most clear in the Sino-Indian war, which was a chance for the USSR to make a move agains a hostile China.
What Israel did was pure realpolitik and opportunism. They were into arms dealing, that's all! Think about why, at Entebbe, Israelis were held hostage by a Ugandan army trained and armed by Israel. Plus, they were weary of Pakistan - but it was not a main issue, nor did it set policies in Pakistan.
Gaddhafi is an original imbecile. He is not pan-Islamic, and he has always tried to blend Islam and Marxism, is a way that is not only impopular - it is also embarrasing for all. The EU approched him, however, with a warmth displayed by no Pakistani.
The Saudis I was reffering to are the Talibans. They could find a modus-vivendi with the Pakistani elite (up to 9-11), but their first victims were Moslems (even other radical Islamists).
I am sure you more know about these. I am glad we can agree on the future in Palestine.

I wasn't equating the religion, but rather the culture...
Regardless of the religion, the Arabs I am referring to have a common culture, be they Christian or Muslim. I know "Arab" was a bad choose of words, I am actually referring to the Palestinian, Jordanian, Lebanese culture. Once again I am generalizing, culture is not bounded by nationality.
:headbang:
Then... why is it that you specified Arab and Christian? (I mean, in your first post dealing with this)

Then... why is it that you specified Arab and Christian? (I mean, in your first post dealing with this)

Because I was not careful in choosing my words... As I have been saying I am having trouble getting good words. If you can understand what I was trying to say in my most recent posts, then I have conveyed my point.
(One more reason i will never become a lawyer.) ;)

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

Because I was not careful in choosing my words... As I have been saying I am having trouble getting good words. If you can understand what I was trying to say in my most recent posts, then I have conveyed my point.
(One more reason i will never become a lawyer.) ;)
Sorry. I tend to get pickey over detailes like this.
I did not mean it as an attack...

Not a problem; I needed someone to call me on this; might as well it have been you; but enough digressions--What do you believe will be neccessary for a lasting peace... Will this withdrawl be enough of a step? I can't imagine a lasting peace coming anytime soon...

Not a problem i needed someone to call me on this.... Might as well have been you; but enough digressions--What do you believe will be neccessary for a lasting peace... Will this withdrawl be enough of a step? I can't imagine a lasting peace coming anytime soon...
I honestly don't see the answer to all this mess. Especially in moments like these, in the wee hours of the morning, I'm afraid nothing done will be enough anymore.
The whole world is being held hostage by parts of the Israeli extreme right wing. Can I really belive that well-defended people in tightly secure locations in the middle of ever-disputed territories are threatened by terrorist attacks? Or is it that even these are serving them - striking, as they usually do, in the heart of cosmopolitan Israel? And all this after witnessing that even a slight change of policy has caused the death of an Israeli Prime-Minister.
I'm sure I don't have the full picture, but this it what it looks like to me.

I'm sure this has been mentioned before and i missed it, but the israelis were perfectly content to keep thier 1948 borders, and encouraged the palestinians to resume thier lives as before. Ben-Gurion even sent Golda Meir to plead with the Palestinians of Haifa to stay, but, instead they fled to the unwelcoming but Arab state of Jordan. Every war the Israel has fought was fought defensively, and again and again they have compromised, but they never cease thier hounding. I believe that giving the palestinians their own land in close proximity to Israel is a very bad idea, as doubless arms smuggling will increase hundredfold, and the attacks from across the border of Gaza will grow ever more vicious until Israel will be forced to retake Gaza and the west bank, if only in an effort to prevent the deaths of more citizens.

You pretty much outlined my view of the situation. Despite the fact that I haven't been following the news recently, from what I have heard that’s all I came up with... Yet still I have a hope. The real problem, I believe, is that even the 2 state solution may not work very well... Many of the refugees' homes are within what is now Israel. This will continue to be an issue even if the Israeli/Palestinian border is the 67 border. Israel will never allow the right of return to refugees with homes in Israel. One of the main requirements of the Israeli government is that Israel remain a Jewish state. If the allowed the return, the human demographic would shift even more in favor of the Palestinians, Israel would very quickly have more than half its people be Palestinians. Israel would not be able to claim it is a democracy. A two state solution will not work... A one state solution would be even more unfavorable to the Israelis because, once again the demographics would be utterly against them... If the Palestinians asked for a one person one vote policy the Israelis would lose or have to deny the request, making it even more oppressive in the eyes of the world. I’m tired and I haven’t carefully proofread this… but that basically outlines my thoughts

I'm sure this has been mentioned before and i missed it, but the israelis were perfectly content to keep thier 1948 borders, and encouraged the palestinians to resume thier lives as before. Ben-Gurion even sent Golda Meir to plead with the Palestinians of Haifa to stay, but, instead they fled to the unwelcoming but Arab state of Jordan. Every war the Israel has fought was fought defensively, and again and again they have compromised, but they never cease thier hounding. I believe that giving the palestinians their own land in close proximity to Israel is a very bad idea, as doubless arms smuggling will increase hundredfold, and the attacks from across the border of Gaza will grow ever more vicious until Israel will be forced to retake Gaza and the west bank, if only in an effort to prevent the deaths of more citizens.

Casualties are initially reported as 254 members of the village dead; the Irgun lose 4 men. The British police interrogation of Fahimi Zidan, 12 years old, who had survived the first mass
killing of about 35 villagers, reveal the following: "The Jews ordered all our family to line up against the wall and they started shooting us. I was hit in the side, but most of us children were saved because we hid behind our parents. The bullets hit my sister Kadri (four) in the head, my sister Sameh (eight) in the cheek, my brother Mohammad (seven) in the chest. But all the
others with us against the wall were killed; my father, my mother, my grandfather and grandmother, my uncles and aunts and some of their children."
The report of Halim Eid: "[i] saw a man shoot a bullet into the neck of my sister Salhiyeh who was nine months pregnant." She goes on to report the man then cut his sister's stomach open with a butcher's knife. The report also describes another woman, Aisha Radwan, killed trying to extract the unborn infant from the dead mother's womb. In another house, sixteen year old Naaneh
Khalil saw a man "take a kind of sword and slash my neighbour Jamil Hish from head to toe then do the same thing on the steps to my house to my cousin Fathi." The attackers killed, looted, then raped. They dynamited the houses; when the dynamite ran out they systematically worked through the remaining
houses with Sten guns and grenades.

"On 14th April at 10 AM I visited Silwan village accompanied by a doctor and a nurse from the Government Hospital in Jerusalem and a member of the Arab Women's Union. We visited many houses in this village in which approximately two to three hundred people from Deir Yassin are housed. I interviewed many
of the womenfolk...There is no doubt that many sexual atrocities were committed by the attacking Jews. Many young school girls were raped and later slaughtered. Old women were also molested. One story is current concerning a case in which a young girl was literally torn in two. Many infants were also
butchered and killed. ...Women had bracelets torn from their arms and rings from their fingers, and parts of some of the women's ears were severed in order to remove earrings.
Assistant Inspector General Richard Catling, British
investigating officer

"A miraculous clearing of the land: the miraculous simplification of Israel's task"
Chaim Weizmann, first President of Israel (in 1949)

I'm sure this has been mentioned before and i missed it, but the israelis were perfectly content to keep thier 1948 borders, and encouraged the palestinians to resume thier lives as before. Ben-Gurion even sent Golda Meir to plead with the Palestinians of Haifa to stay, but, instead they fled to the unwelcoming but Arab state of Jordan. Every war the Israel has fought was fought defensively, and again and again they have compromised, but they never cease thier hounding. I believe that giving the palestinians their own land in close proximity to Israel is a very bad idea, as doubless arms smuggling will increase hundredfold, and the attacks from across the border of Gaza will grow ever more vicious until Israel will be forced to retake Gaza and the west bank, if only in an effort to prevent the deaths of more citizens.

At the point that the Israeli's offered to keep 1948 borders, it was utterly proposterous, land per population, it was extremely unfair to the Palestinians. Before i even get into that let me make an analogy:
A family is unfairly treated and is kicked out of their house. The government mandates that I put them up in my house. We get along nicely enough for a while. They decide that since the house was once theirs, many generations ago and they had been unfairly kicked out, they had a right to it. Since the time that they had owned it, many other families have unfairly taken over, and later been kicked out. My family took the house many generations ago and we have lived there ever since. The family that was treated unfairly had relatives who were also unfairly treated. The government mandates that i must allow them into my house… after a number of them enter, I decide enough was enough. I tried to push them out but the government supported them, they took over one more of my rooms. As a treaty to get me to stop trying to kick them out they offer me my one room back. Do I take it?
This is clearly over simplified but I think it covers the major points….
I can elaborate on this but I’m really tired and am going to sleep soon so if u have questions, make them quickly..

I’m tired and I haven’t carefully proofread this… but that basically outlines my thoughts
I understand the huge problem.
There was no wish to avoid its impications, not ever. Everything bad that could have happened has, and the right wing in Israel has been doing everything to jump head-first into this.
As a principle, no matter how understanding of this situation I may be, it isn't ever right to condone this. Picture this as morality: "South Africa isn't fair, because - ever since 94 - the Boers have been outnumbered".
The only possibility is if you "corrupt" sectarian sensibilities. There is no Israeli way as opposed to an Arab one. Most ideas (virtually all those acceptable in democratic debate) are represented on both sides.
No one community is given a single mindset. Not even if you spend 60 years trying to enforce this.

The majority versus the minority.
Sad, sad, world : /

The majority versus the minority.
Sad, sad, world : /
Why?

there will always be strife and oppression
well.... good night... i'll try to check back tomorrow morning

there will always be strife and oppression
The minority has done a glorious job at strife and oppresion.
I do not think that the Boers in South Africa are oppresed - you live in much the same type of democracy as that state 20 yers ago, or as Alabama in the 50s.
You could be avoiding the definition in sectarian terms. After all, no democracy would allow groups to define individuals. There is no "voting Jewish" or "voting Arab". Or there wouldn't be, if the system would not allow discrimination and condone collective responsability.
Good night, then.

What Israel did was pure realpolitik and opportunism. They were into arms dealing, that's all! Think about why, at Entebbe, Israelis were held hostage by a Ugandan army trained and armed by Israel. Plus, they were weary of Pakistan - but it was not a main issue, nor did it set policies in Pakistan.


Israelis may have been opportunistic to others, but they have been fair in their dealings with India. They did not even raise prices or extract unfair spare contracts like the Russians did.

There is a reason why Israelis got weary of Pakis. Many Paki air force men flew for Arabs against Israelis. Israelis were infuriated. Israel does have a Pakistan policy, which is "Don't play the game of plausible deniability with us, lest you want an Osirak". It worked.

The Saudis I was reffering to are the Talibans.

Saudi-taliban nexus is not that direct. The middle-man is Pakistan. This link is not that understood. Arabs (including Saudis) made up only about 3-5 % of the Taliban. A significant chunk was pushtuns from Paki side.

They could find a modus-vivendi with the Pakistani elite (up to 9-11)

LOL. What makes you think that it is not the modus-vivendi after 9-11 ?

Musharraf's promises in western television media ?

Do a quick google on how many taliban have been apprehended by Pakistani establishment. Or better still, visit this thread..

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=439254

We can carry over the discussion there, and not digress more here..

We can carry over the discussion there, and not digress more here..
No, that's ok. I think we have made our points. One last thing: I did not imply that there are no connections between thr establishment in Pakistan today and the (ex-)taliban. But they are problemetic, since they could never be carried out on principle - Pakistan backed the Taliban without being Taliban, so did the US. Zia was no Usama, even if that is to say that he was corrupt and just that. Any Army today is, as a rule, the most secular element in any society.
(And by Saudis I meant bin Laden and his cronies, not the government of Saudi Arabia. As I mentioned before, I don't equate state, natio and individuals.)

Whatever, man. Massacres happened throughout. Ever heard of Srebrenica? Mostar?
If this event is meant to have happened in the 1990s in Srpska, it is a lie (for it is impossible). Otherwise, if it's something meant to be linked with the Ottomans, then we should be talking of what mercenary armies did at any time during the past millenium. I do not know if these can in any way be linked to religion.


Oh, the Ottomans MEANT to perish - just to cause troubles for this part of Europe. Right, I get it. And then, the Russians and Austrians were just in for us. I just read a document in which the Sultan offered a Romanian prince (late in the 1700s) money for the maintainance and army command so that the Wallachians don't give in to the Russians and Austrians. He procrastinated, and when the Austrians came, he was led to Bohemia and spent quite a while in prison there.
What about Vlad? He was an incompetent ruler, not worth mentioning.
And Spain? If anything, they were the exact opposite of the Ottomans - in administrating, in army-buildup., in resources.
And Spain went straight to the bottom in a quarter the time it took the Turks to do it. And it was mainly BECAUSE they ran an Empire. They flooded the market with American silver, cause they thought they had the monopoly - and it destroyed their economy. Incidentally, it also shook the Ottoman one - partly causing the decay. Their monnetary systems, the only similarity, was based on silver. And the Romanian principalities got a good shaking out of it - no prince ever again dreamed of issuing a local currency.
That is the true history! See the capital works of Braudel.


I meant WW 2. I bet you'll say that they were not Moslem, but Ataturkian. Anyway, same generalizations.


I called it "a byproduct". And it was backed by clerical regimes and had Catholic and Orthodox versions - I mean, Nazisms motivated by these. Ever heard of the Iron Guard? Or Mgr. Tiso? Or the Fallangists? Same complex relationships.
Anyway, if not "Christian", it was "baptised". And the Nazis were more into controlling religion, rather than denying it. They never took on Christianity - though, I agree, to Hitler this would've been a perk, and would've gotten around to it. His followers could be very devout church-goers, who had been learning the lesson of secularism, as it preached by Protestantism. This ambiguity is ever-present.


What? Where? My country was communist too! Have you seen our current President? Does he look like a Patriarch?


I know the "story". It has parallels in Christian Gnosis, though I do not mean this as a credential.
I tried to point out that this is, if anything, a polemics with the Christians - not the Hebrews.


I know there's a lot of snake-handlers in the US who see the world in these terms, but you'll not have made sense with me.


No, I mean the movement that started as a fascist faction in the 30s. The one that was at ease while Moslems where not the majority (since they topped the constitutional pyramid) and than panicked and started random attacks.


Right... The murders of the Irgun are fiascos, easily dissmissable. But let us not forget the killings in Arab villages, as part of the ethnic cleansing in '48-'49. As usually, when nobody is watching.


How am I to reason with a Christian, who believes everything Moslems say, viewing their history through rose colored glasses, but does not even trust his own people enough to believe them?

If you think Israel got its start by wiping out Arab villages, then it only makes sense that you would view Islamic Rule with such nostalgia. Perhaps you will be happier after all when you are ruled by them again.

I continue to support the rights of Serbia to defend themselves long as they have the backbone to do so. I understand it is difficult with “Peacekeepers” protecting the terrorists, though from time to time people like Jordanian Peacekeepers shoot Female American Peacekeepers in the back.

I maintain that you should read some of what Nazi Officials themselves wrote about religion to get their take on it. If they ever set foot in a Church it was to manipulate public opinion or set fire to the building. Like Moslems, they were friendly when useful and threw away their servants when they were finished with them. Ask a Sufi in Africa after their village is burned by Arabs and their well is poisoned, what god it did them to help drive away the Christians.

The British did a nice job of disarming Jewish Militias, but never did a very good job of disarming the Arabs, because Nomads are hard to find. I can understand why Israel did not feel well protected by the British and wanted them out. Israel would feel the same way about UN peacekeepers today and they would be right. The UN condemned Serbia to death and France does the same to the Ivory Coast today. If all Christians showed your Dhimmitude, I would feel no sympathy at all.

LOL, man, Yeru you're really sick in your head. Now Velo is one that excuses genocide? Please show us were he said that, that guy always was a antinazi.I had many debates wih him and never saw so, now you as a newcommer say such awfull things that we might want to see some proof. And don't come back with your classic and unvalllid excuse in a debate:

Perhaps he critisises your racisme and your abslolutely disrespect for Jews that have another opinion then yours? I think you're the nazi here.(methods, language, dirty tricks, attacks on other ones religion aso. :rolleyes: ).
You really need professional help, in fact, I even don't think you are a Jew, you're only plan here is spreading antisemitisme and demonise real Jews with your racist posts and your disguise as a extremist Zionist.

Give us some facts where old Velo did excuse any kind of genocide I guess you're not talking about Rwanda here or other genocides then the Jewish one ;) but what real Jews call the shoa and Europeans and other people call "the Hollocaust" (one of the many in history). "Many", like the current one in Palestine (not gassing but shooting a random the Palestinians is not a excuse for not talking about genocide)are allready lasting longer (regardless the number of victims, families are knowing it decades by now) then the one that happened between jully 1941 (first use of the Einsatgruppen in Russia near the Babbi Yar-ravin) till beginning of april 1945 (Himmlers order to stop shooting Jews on the death marches while retreating from the death camps that fell in Soviet and even some in the west, in allied hands). Of course, the people of the resistance,Russian POWS, gipsies and the jailed plotters of the Whermacht- and Abwehr-resistance against Hitler like Admiral Canaris (jully '44 complot) together with theologists like Dietrich Bonhoefer were killed till the verry last last days.

You're crazy when you say that people like Velo excuse for genocide with wordgames. I think that he undermined your position when you posted a photo of some middle eastern people with a stiff upper arm while accusing the arabs of being anti semite. He replied and took you by the balls when he said that both people are semites.

A real Jew would know that, another example that you're just some extreme right neocon that pretends being a Jew. Your rascisme says enough, all knowed Jews and Israelites on NS are ashamed by your posts.


Israel has nuclear weapons but has stayed its hand for thirty years. Now, as the Palestinians call for the complete destruction of Israel, that every inch of land be “Returned” to the Islamic Empire, Israel still restrains itself and you thoughtlessly accuse them of such crimes?

You are guilty of blood libel, yet you call me a Nazi? I do not slander Islam by quoting from their book. You slander us all by refusing to even read it before regurgitating their Socialist Propaganda.

It does not matter if the Arabs are “Semitic”, because this term was coined to address the sort of mindless Hatred of Jews that leads idiots to accuse a tiny, civilized country like Israel, of atrocities while Arabs Bloodily Slaughter Their Way Across three Continents.

just like I am tired of guiding one that pretends to be a Jew around WWII and the Hollocaust. Well, that is not completely honnest since I worked as a historyteacher before moving to my beloved mountains and have WWII and history still as a specialised hobby.

BTW, since your not a Jew (but only use the cover to atack Arabs) may I call you Dirlewanger? Or Stoop?
Yeah,you'll need to google them since you know shit by heart.


“You” are a history teacher? No wonder children all over the world are being trained to hate us again!

I have come to the conclusion that India's struggle with islamist terrorism has to be fought by India alone and no sympathy/ understanding/help is to be expected from any other country, including so-called natural allies - the US/UK and other democracies.



Gee, maybe they should just “Withdraw”? Yeah that will give them peace.

Casualties are initially reported as 254 members of the village dead; the Irgun lose 4 men. The British police interrogation of Fahimi Zidan, 12 years old, who had survived the first mass
killing of about 35 villagers, reveal the following: "The Jews ordered all our family to line up against the wall and they started shooting us. I was hit in the side, but most of us children were saved because we hid behind our parents. The bullets hit my sister Kadri (four) in the head, my sister Sameh (eight) in the cheek, my brother Mohammad (seven) in the chest. But all the
others with us against the wall were killed; my father, my mother, my grandfather and grandmother, my uncles and aunts and some of their children."
The report of Halim Eid: "[i] saw a man shoot a bullet into the neck of my sister Salhiyeh who was nine months pregnant." She goes on to report the man then cut his sister's stomach open with a butcher's knife. The report also describes another woman, Aisha Radwan, killed trying to extract the unborn infant from the dead mother's womb. In another house, sixteen year old Naaneh
Khalil saw a man "take a kind of sword and slash my neighbour Jamil Hish from head to toe then do the same thing on the steps to my house to my cousin Fathi." The attackers killed, looted, then raped. They dynamited the houses; when the dynamite ran out they systematically worked through the remaining
houses with Sten guns and grenades.

"On 14th April at 10 AM I visited Silwan village accompanied by a doctor and a nurse from the Government Hospital in Jerusalem and a member of the Arab Women's Union. We visited many houses in this village in which approximately two to three hundred people from Deir Yassin are housed. I interviewed many
of the womenfolk...There is no doubt that many sexual atrocities were committed by the attacking Jews. Many young school girls were raped and later slaughtered. Old women were also molested. One story is current concerning a case in which a young girl was literally torn in two. Many infants were also
butchered and killed. ...Women had bracelets torn from their arms and rings from their fingers, and parts of some of the women's ears were severed in order to remove earrings.
Assistant Inspector General Richard Catling, British
investigating officer


Then they made matzo from their bones and blood and summoned demons.

Did you see the one on Aljazeera about “Jews Stealing Little Girl’s Eyeballs under the Guise of humanitarian Aid?”.

How about the one about Israel and America, causing the Tsunami?

I do not take everything they say as gold, especially when they turn around and say the opposite in Arabic.

Thank you for your concern about who is to dominate my people, Yeru Shalaim, but I assure you you missed (or pretended to miss) my point.
I guess I have to stress the obvious: there is no common pan-Islamic action, be it good or evil. I am ready to admit all the evils, on all sides - and my points about the Ottomans are as follows:
-they had ideologically diverse sources, even contradictory ones: their drive to replace the Byzanthenes led them to give an identity to Orthodoxy, as paradoxical as that may look. It turned them from a religious manifest of the power of Emperors into a Church on its own - remember that the last emperor had approved a union with the Roman Church, and most of Easterndom was in revolt against this gesture. The Sultan approved a much more liberal connection with the Patriarchate, thus giving it a voice of its own. The Russians were quick to profit on this, and their claim to be the Third Rome was in defiance of the seat in Istanbul - a thing that nobody will admit to today. It doesn't make the Ottomans protectors, other than by coincidence. Fact is they assumed the functions of the Empire.
- the Islamic legacy they had was virulently challenged by many states and policies, from the Sefavids to the Wahhabis. The inner wars were much bloodier than those on Russia (or Serbia, or whatever), and they implied that the truth was, and is, this: "nobody has a monopoly on religion" (the Caliphs in Istanbul were considered pagans by the Wahhabies - also, by any standards, the Islam preached in Turkey was cosmopolitan and ecclectic, which is why Islamists in Turkey today will not hold it a paradigm).
Also, giving thumbs-up for Russian instigation in Serbia is in bad taste for an Israeli: Russia was, for the very same reasons, carrying out major pogroms in the Ukraine.
- bloody wars in the Balkans took a religious form at the instigation of foreigners (previously, Christians could just as well find common ground with the Ottomans, and Hungarian Protestants in Transylvania were in an alliance with the Ottomans against Rome - and the Hungarian Crown! given that it was Catholic); in the XIXth century, nationalists in the Balkans were violently turning on each other - this ferocity had NOTHING to do with the Ottomans (previously, the Turks had been forced to break up the system of religious corporatism in their society, because Christian "brothers" would not want to be included in the same classes - that is why the first acts of independent Balkan nations were wars on each other, given that they had superimposing identities, as it happened in Serbia vs. Bulgaria; incidentally, identities were mostly non-religious, even secular - see Albania and its Moslem-Christian population, as well as Yougoslavia after WW1)

About the Nazis: the fact that Germany used religious propaganda makes them a by-product, and you would have to explain WHY they could attract Christians with anti-Semitism. They did it, because anti-Semitism has CHRISTIAN roots just as well (its "Darwinian" streak in German society was a modern manifestation of a centuries-old cretin and vile notion, much as a Christian moron could agree that Blacks are "monkeys", even though he doesn't/shouldn't believe in stages of human developement).
And in other Nazisms, Christianity was "identity": Tiso was a goddamn Catholic bishop (cut off from the Vatican, but still a priest), the Iron Guard was nothing if not Orthodox, and Ante Pavelic could not point out any difference between Croats and Serbs other than religion (indeed, nor can ANYONE). What about Vichy and "traditional", "clean", "Catholic", "freed from Jewery" France?