NationStates Jolt Archive

I couldn't find a recent thread for this, so here is my own. What is your opinion on Israel's alleged occupation of Palestinian land? The Gaza withdrawl? A potential West Bank withdrawl? ...Please keep it calm, mainly just your opinion. Also state your religion.

I'm an atheist Jew. I think that the Gaza withdrawl was a very good thing. There weren't many Israelis there anyway. As for the West Bank, I think Israel should let go of outposts and small bits of land, but still keep major areas. I don't think Israel is an occupier. I think that Israel should peacefully coexist with the Palestinians. No seperate homeland for them in Israel's current borders. They have several other tax-free nations to go to.

I don't have sufficient information as to wether the withdrawl of Israeli settlers who had literally made the Gaza strip liveable is a good thing or not. ask me again in a few years.

my whole take on this palestine/Israel thing is based on history.

It all goes back to an inheritance dispute thousands of years ago. that's why the Muslims and Jews hate each other. after WW2, many survivors of the holocoust were given their own nation by the British empire as an act of mercy. and the muslims immediately attacked the new nation of Israel. it was during these years of constant war that the small nation proved itself in my eyes to be superior to all it's neighbors. they were beste on all sides, armed with whatever they could get for cheap. hell, they even used BF109s and Mauser 98Ks. one thing about the Israelis, they're resourceful. they took Grant tanks and made them into excellent tanks. they used shermans against T72s, and won. most importantly, they managed to drive off their enemies time and again, even gaining ground, often times with no help at all. this nation which is about the same size as rhode Island has stood alone against an entire region. for that i respect them, and feel that they deserve every centimeter of land they can hold on to. the palestinians, however, have never really had a nation in that area, let alone having the capitol in Jerusilem. the only people who have ever had a nation encompasing the area of israel, are the Israelis. i feel that the only reason the palestinians want Israel, is because the Israelis own it.

...an atheist Jew....? :confused:

OK... I'll try to talk realistically, without taking moral issues into account.

1) The occupation is not alleged, because, I think, the West Bank has never been incorporated into Israel. If one country governs another territory, it is either a colony or an occupied territory. It contravenes a whole load of the UN resolutions, but let's not take it into account now. after all, when the West Bank was occupied by Jordan and the Gaza Strip--by Egypt, no one in the UN was raising his voice in support of Palestinian plight.

2) The two-state solution is the only realistic option. Removing the large West Bank settlements (e. g. Maale Adummim) is going to be too costly both in financial and political sense for any Israeli government, so I guess the Palestinians will have to put up with it. Most of the settlements will have to go, or the necessary security arrangements will make the existence of the Arab state quite untenable. The Palestinian state will comprise of the whole of the Gaza Strip and most of the West Bank--not too bad.

3) Israel will have to sacrifice Jerusalem. Its division (1948-1967) did not work well, so make the city an international zone like it was envisaged in 1947. It is going to be a hard decision, but the other options are worse.

I'm a Russian agnostic.

I am not sure why I should have to state my religion as I don't see what relevance it has. Nonetheless, I shall do as you request; I am a nominal member of the Church of Sweden (having been baptised and confirmed as is the norm here), i.e. Lutheran. However, I'm pretty much agnostic in belief and I don't regularly attend church services.

I believe that Israel should work to end its illegal occupation of the occupied territories asap.

I view the recent end of Israel's illegal settlements in the Gaza strip with cynicism. Israel is still excercising unreasonable (and illegal) levels on control over the Gaza strip (e.g. all border control, coastal control, air space control etc). I also believe that Sharon used this to ensure it was impossible in Israeli public opinion to evacuate the far larger and more signifantly numbered West Bank settlements. He can use Gaza evacuations to say things to the Americans such as "did you see the pain it took to evacuate Gaza, this has exhausted the Israeli populations tolarance for such moves".
hould Palestinian terrorists up their level of violence he can then also say to the Americans "we are peacemakers, we made moves for peace by evacuating Gaza, now you can see what we are facing... etc etc" and use this as an excuse to pull out of any further peace talks and to further continue their illegal occupation and persecution of Palestine.

Israel must conform to international law. Israel must be allowed to exist. Israel must leave the occupied territories, including occupied Jerusalem, and comply with UN resolutions.

The UN is anti-semitic.


I'm a Unitarian Universalist with Buddhist leanings.

I have to disagree with you. Israel does not occupy anything except maybe Gaza. They have historical claims(almost the same as biblical) to most of the land. I've heard that the Palestinians were the ancient Philistines. If so, the Philistines lived in Gaza, not the West Bank. I think the Palestinians are actually just Arabs that no one wants.

I have to disagree with you. Israel does not occupy anything except maybe Gaza. They have historical claims(almost the same as biblical) to most of the land. I've heard that the Palestinians were the ancient Philistines. If so, the Philistines lived in Gaza, not the West Bank. I think the Palestinians are actually just Arabs that no one wants.

exactly. nobody in the middle east likes the palestinians, it's just that they dislike the Jews even more.

I'm a Russian/Romanian and Indian Jew, and I say Israel should have kept the land. Forget letting the Palis have that land, everytime there's a suicide bombing in israel find the home of the suicide bomber and LEVEL his whole street.

Bet bombings will go down.

I think that unless Israel gives up the West Bank as well, and allows it sovereignty, it should enfranchise all the Palestians in the Occupied Territories. Because at the end of the day, it's either your territory or it is not. In the case of the former, the vote cannot be denied to permanent residents, in the case of the latter, sovereignty cannot be denied.

If the UN had any backbone, it would offer this choice or sanctions.

I can provide an explanation for the bulldozing of Palestinian homes now that that might come up. When suicide bombers attack Israel, their families get money. That money could be used for terrorism if they don't have another use for it. So the homes are destroyed so they have to use the money and rebuild them.

Forget letting the Palis have that land, everytime there's a suicide bombing in israel find the home of the suicide bomber and LEVEL his whole street.

Bet bombings will go down.
Collective punishment Nazi-occupied Eastern Europe style? LOL. You sure you're not a closet anti-semite?

I'm a Russian/Romanian and Indian Jew, and I say Israel should have kept the land. Forget letting the Palis have that land, everytime there's a suicide bombing in israel find the home of the suicide bomber and LEVEL his whole street.

Bet bombings will go down.
I'm sure all those people with no homes will be very much pacified once that happens.

Collective punishment Nazi-occupied Eastern Europe style? LOL. You sure you're not a closet anti-semite?

What? The Nazis did it to suppress the Jewish freedom fighters. The israelis do it to stay alive.

Nope, not anti-semetic..by a longshot.

I'm sure all those people with no homes will be very much pacified once that happens.

They'll be dead.

Ultimate pacification.

Shock and awe! W00t w00t!

"Oh Mohammed, did you hear about 3rd street and Fatwa Road? It got vaporised. Maybe donating to HAMAS wasn't such a good idea!"

I'm pretty sure they'll get the idea after a while, they can't be THAT stupid.

I've heard that the Palestinians were the ancient Philistines. If so, the Philistines lived in Gaza, not the West Bank. I think the Palestinians are actually just Arabs that no one wants.
The Palestinians are Arabs. I'm not sure what historical claims from 4000 years ago have to do with anything. We are talking about where people live right now. The home where you grew up means a lot more than where your race decends from

Actually, a secular multiethnic state without religious ties is what SHOULD happen. But it won't, and so a two state solution with a Palestinian West Bank is the only real option.

They'll be dead.

Ultimate pacification.

Shock and awe! W00t w00t!
Oh, so what you have in mind is genocide then. Charming worldview you have there.

Israel does not "occupy" any of these territories. These were taken in war (that was not started by Israel), and as such, now belong to Israel. Period. Israel "occupies" Gaza or the West Bank as much as France "occupies" Alsace-Lorraine or America "occupies"... well, all of its territory. Nobody asks that America or France return these territories to other groups, why should Israel have to? It's a sovereign nation, just like America or France.

Also, why should the Jews have to pull their settlements out of these "occupied" territories? Shouldn't we then force all the Palestinians to leave the rest of Israel? All in the name of fairness, you know. As for Jerusalem, I say let the Israelis have it. This isn't because the Islamic claims are meaningless, but rather because it is Judaism's single holiest city, but it only ranks third in Islam (behind Mecca and Medina). The Arabs won't even allow non-Muslims in Mecca, the Jews should at least govern Jerusalem.

Israel does not "occupy" any of these territories. These were taken in war (that was not started by Israel), and as such, now belong to Israel. Period.


That's actually the definition of occupation.

By the way, I forgot to mention.

I'm a Roman Catholic, living in America.

That's actually the definition of occupation.

Textbook definition, maybe, but here it means illegally controlled and/or stolen. Which they're not.

What? The Nazis did it to suppress the Jewish freedom fighters. The israelis do it to stay alive.

Nope, not anti-semetic..by a longshot.
The Nazis did it to stay alive too. :)

Pretty difficult occupying Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, etc when the locals keep laying mines and sniping you. So they would burn down the villages until only a landscape of stone-built chimneys remained, reasoning that a homeless man is a less effective insurgent, or in the urban areas, confine people into ghettos without fuel, food or sanitation, like Warsaw, Lodz, etc. Pretty high mortality rate for Germans in Belarus and Warsaw. ;)

Yeah, I think you're a closet anti-Semite, or maybe just racist in general. After all, what were the founders of Israel trying to escape? Those very acts you now endorse. Might makes right, huh, the paler-skinned guy with the bigger gun is automatically better? Maybe you get a kick out of saying that stuff, but my family fought the Nazis (I am British but ethnically slavic, my grandfather was Ukrainian), so I see that kind of attitude for what it is.

Oh, so what you have in mind is genocide then. Charming worldview you have there.


So they blow up busses, the Israelis respond in kind, and it's genocide?

It wouldn't happen if they wouldn't blow up busses and kill kids.

The reason sharon made the settelers leave is becuse you have 8k people sourounded by 1.3mililion hostile people, according to Lou Dobbs, ande to use the argument that the bible and yawah gave it to them, is uncomprehensable to people who don,t belive in the jewish or christion fath, and another way of looking at it ARF-COM AND IBTL is to say that if Hitler had wiped out all jews we would not behaving this problem ether, which makes just as much sence as your policy does.

They'll be dead.

Ultimate pacification.

Shock and awe! W00t w00t!

"Oh Mohammed, did you hear about 3rd street and Fatwa Road? It got vaporised. Maybe donating to HAMAS wasn't such a good idea!"

I'm pretty sure they'll get the idea after a while, they can't be THAT stupid.
And this basically confirms my impressions, as described above. :(

Am I getting warmer? White supremacist? :confused:

So they blow up busses, the Israelis respond in kind, and it's genocide?

It wouldn't happen if they wouldn't blow up busses and kill kids.

Most of them didn't get a vote on the matter of blowing up busses and killing kids. One guy decided to do it. So 1000 other people should die because they had the misfortune of being ethnically and geographically similar to him? You are a very disgusting human being if you really believe this.

You know, the fact that they keep using bombings to do this kind of thing is rather interesting. Violent revolution is becoming less and less effective as time goes on. I think they just want to kill Jews because: the Palestinians are not all dumb. If they really wanted their own country, and that was all, after 50 years, they should have learned what works. They should be emulating Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. or Gandhi and non-violently protesting. They should have figured it out by now. But they enjoy (Hamas, etc., NOT Palestinians in general) killing Jews so much that they'll delay getting their country to perpetuate it.

I,ve heard that Jews were never terrorists, but people forget that in the 30s the Jews waged a terrorist war on brition just ask LORD MOYNE.

And this basically confirms my impressions, as described above. :(

Am I getting warmer? White supremacist? :confused:

Hardly. White Supremacists seem to think the whole war in Iraq was started for Israel....and we just flat out don't get along very well.

You know, the fact that they keep using bombings to do this kind of thing is rather interesting. Violent revolution is becoming less and less effective as time goes on. I think they just want to kill Jews because: the Palestinians are not all dumb. If they really wanted their own country, and that was all, after 50 years, they should have learned what works. They should be emulating Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. or Gandhi and non-violently protesting. They should have figured it out by now. But they enjoy (Hamas, etc., NOT Palestinians in general) killing Jews so much that they'll delay getting their country to perpetuate it.


Arrant nonsense.

When the jackboot is on your throat, you do everything and anything you
can to get it off.

You can have peaceful protest but it only works when
1 the world is watching and
2 the jackbooter cares
3 the world will take some action if the situation doesn't improve

Israel keeps very tight control over when and who they allow access to the
occupied territories, not only but including reporters.

On the occasions when we actually see Israelis do something that is
so unquestionably wrong and inhuman that it provokes a reaction,
they simply do not care.

As it never leads to any negative consequences for them
from anyone other than the palestinians, why should they care.

They'll be dead.

Ultimate pacification.

Shock and awe! W00t w00t!

"Oh Mohammed, did you hear about 3rd street and Fatwa Road? It got vaporised. Maybe donating to HAMAS wasn't such a good idea!"

I'm pretty sure they'll get the idea after a while, they can't be THAT stupid.


Surely it has to be possible that someone is.

You cannot be all alone

Israel didn't need the US to start the Iraq war. They could've whupped Saddam easily.

Most of them didn't get a vote on the matter of blowing up busses and killing kids. One guy decided to do it. So 1000 other people should die because they had the misfortune of being ethnically and geographically similar to him? You are a very disgusting human being if you really believe this.

If they don't want to die and they don't approve of the Suicide bombings, why do their leaders (Atleast they did-good ol' israeli Helicopters at work) continue to voice the "End the occupation! Death to israel!" that Hamas and Hezbollah propaganda?

Surely it has to be possible that someone is.

You cannot be all alone

With who, Palistinian terrorists? Nobody can be that stupid.

Arrant nonsense.

When the jackboot is on your throat, you do everything and anything you
can to get it off.

You can have peaceful protest but it only works when
1 the world is watching and
2 the jackbooter cares
3 the world will take some action if the situation doesn't improve

Israel keeps very tight control over when and who they allow access to the
occupied territories, not only but including reporters.

On the occasions when we actually see Israelis do something that is
so unquestionably wrong and inhuman that it provokes a reaction,
they simply do not care.

As it never leads to any negative consequences for them
from anyone other than the palestinians, why should they care.

People don't care because Palestinians KILL DEFENSELESS CIVILIANS almost daily. Nothing the Israelis do can be worse unless they use WMD's. Also, the world IS obviously watching, otherwise there wouldn't be a worldwide push to bring peace to these people. Israel can't retaliate against non-violent protest without losing everyone's support, including America's and they know it, so the "jackbooter" does care. Israel's just not dumb enough to bring it up themselves.

If they don't want to die and they don't approve of the Suicide bombings, why do their leaders (Atleast they did-good ol' israeli Helicopters at work) continue to voice the "End the occupation! Death to israel!" that Hamas and Hezbollah propaganda?
Because 1 individual blowing up 1 bus is not equatible to a state sanctioned ethnic cleansing thats why.

And Hezb'allah are Lebanese not Palestinian i believe.

If they don't want to die and they don't approve of the Suicide bombings, why do their leaders (Atleast they did-good ol' israeli Helicopters at work) continue to voice the "End the occupation! Death to israel!" that Hamas and Hezbollah propaganda?
Well, that's kind of like saying that the US soldier who ass-raped a 15-year-old kid in Abu Graib is representative of the American people. Reasonable to level the neighbourhood of his birth? :rolleyes:

Every violent conflict spawns its fair share of idiots. If you want to level entire city blocks to make a point to someone, don't complain when you find that the principle can be applied in the reverse direction.

Why does Bush give subsides to oil company that have record proffits :rolleyes: is he not the us leader :confused: ,sometimes the leaders of the people don,t do whats best for the people.

Hezbollah is indeed Lebanese.

Because 1 individual blowing up 1 bus is not equatible to a state sanctioned ethnic cleansing thats why.

And Hezb'allah are Lebanese not Palestinian i believe.

Well, I've never heard a Palestinian speak out AGAINST the terrorists... I'm sure it's happened at least once, but I've never heard of it... so wouldn't that be "state sanctioned"? Besides, the Palestinian government (AKA Yasser Arafat, until he died) still directed these attacks. That's state-sanctioning too.

Well, I've never heard a Palestinian speak out AGAINST the terrorists... I'm sure it's happened at least once, but I've never heard of it... so wouldn't that be "state sanctioned"? Besides, the Palestinian government (AKA Yasser Arafat, until he died) still directed these attacks. That's state-sanctioning too.

Following that line of thought- i have never heard an Israeli govt representative speak out against the collective punishment policy.

The Palestinians don't HAVE a state... thats the whole point- so it can't be 'state sanctioned'. Only led by medievel style tactics with modern devices.

Following that line of thought- i have never heard an Israeli govt representative speak out against the collective punishment policy.

The Palestinians don't HAVE a state... thats the whole point- so it can't be 'state sanctioned'. Only led by medievel style tactics with modern devices.

They DO have a state. They have a representative at the UN, they must be a state. They don't have any land.

I'm not saying Israel hasn't sanctioned things, I'm just saying it's not limited to Israel.

Well, I've never heard a Palestinian speak out AGAINST the terrorists... I'm sure it's happened at least once, but I've never heard of it... so wouldn't that be "state sanctioned"? Besides, the Palestinian government (AKA Yasser Arafat, until he died) still directed these attacks. That's state-sanctioning too. Of course he did, but who can blame them, if some indians showed up one day and told me that the land my grandfather grandfather owned, belonged to them 4000yrs ago and there god gave it to them now get off and put me in a refugee camp, i would be a terrorist to :)

They DO have a state. They have a representative at the UN, they must be a state. They don't have any land.
Nope, they have no state, and their representative has all the powers of a representative of the Vatican, ie not many.

They DO have a state. They have a representative at the UN, they must be a state. They don't have any land.

I'm not saying Israel hasn't sanctioned things, I'm just saying it's not limited to Israel.

No they DON'T have a state- they have special dispensation at the behest of the UN so they can plead their case- hence theor representative there. They do not have 'statehood'- 'nationhood' maybe but definetly not a state. Remember there is a BIG difference between 'nation' and 'state'.

And i'm not saying others haven't santioned things either. But you must remember- Hamas is not under the control of the Palestinian Authority (PA) and is in fact, fighting with them for political power in the upcoming elections

The Vatican is also a state, a small one, but a state nontheless. They have an official government, that represents them and decides Palestinian policy.

Well no angry insults yet. That's a sign. Keep it calm, folks.

Well no angry insults yet. That's a sign. Keep it calm, folks.

I KNOW!! This is great- a well meaning discussion that hasn't degenerated into a flame war :D :D

No they DON'T have a state- they have special dispensation at the behest of the UN so they can plead their case- hence theor representative there. They do not have 'statehood'- 'nationhood' maybe but definetly not a state. Remember there is a BIG difference between 'nation' and 'state'.

Well, then I'm mixing up "state" and "nation", my mistake. My point is: they have a government that has sanctioned terrorist activities. The sanctioning of these horrible acts is NOT LIMITED to Israel alone.

I KNOW!! This is great- a well meaning discussion that hasn't degenerated into a flame war :D :D

Yes, it's very impressive. Not to mention refreshing. That's one reason I don't post a lot, I hate flame threads. I'm glad we can discuss this reasonably.

Well, then I'm mixing up "state" and "nation", my mistake.

My point is: they have a government that has sanctioned terrorist activities. The sanctioning of these horrible acts is NOT LIMITED to Israel alone.

Thats quite alright- it took me 3 years of college to discover that out :D

They have.....an 'Authority'- not as much power as a govt. At any rate it is defunct- the true power lies not in the political spectrum... but the economic. The Israeli Govt is the economic power and is choking the life out of the PA before it can even get started- they control and patrol the seas and the coast, farms are split by settlements and the 'Wall', roadblocks and checkpoints make it nigh impossible to cross to get to their jobs. It is when the PA assumes economic control that the fledgling state- or protostate in Gaza will (hopefully) kickstart a cooling of tensions.

Thats quite alright- it took me 3 years of college to discover that out :D

They have.....an 'Authority'- not as much power as a govt. At any rate it is defunct- the true power lies not in the political spectrum... but the economic. The Israeli Govt is the economic power and is choking the life out of the PA before it can even get started- they control and patrol the seas and the coast, farms are split by settlements and the 'Wall', roadblocks and checkpoints make it nigh impossible to cross to get to their jobs. It is when the PA assumes economic control that the fledgling state- or protostate in Gaza will (hopefully) kickstart a cooling of tensions.

Well, I can't argue with that, that is true. But peace-forwarding rhetoric is still important, whether the Authority has any REAL power or not. It helps to promote their intent, at the very least.

Well, I can't argue with that, that is true. But peace-forwarding rhetoric is still important, whether the Authority has any REAL power or not. It helps to promote their intent, at the very least.

I agree. The PA has a chance now to reign in Hamas, even for a short time, but long enough to show that the peaceful way to statehood is achievable. If successful, Hamas could play an important part in the political future (as they are closly linked with the poor and working classes) much like what the IRA has done in Northern Ireland recently.

But like i said- both sides must help each other to help themselves. No more 'drive them into the sea' or 'biblical rights'.


...my god, have we just solved the Israel/Palestine problem...
:eek: :D

But don,t forget the wild cards(syria,iran)they will fund attacks, even if all is well, between the zionist goverment of isreal and the PA.

But don,t forget the wild cards(syria,iran)they will fund attacks, even if all is well, between the zionist goverment of isreal and the PA.

No, not if the promise of greater reward is through peace. Their own people must believe that in order to succeed. Hence the IRA's move into politics- their supporters believed that there was more to be gained via politics then the gun/bomb.

The true problem is- when one individaul does something abhorrently stupid- a settler gets his M16 and kills 3 Palestinian farmers, a random rocket attack from Gaza etc etc. The responses from both sides will determine whether they go forward or back to bombings and 'targeted killings' ie assasinations.

There are plenty of Islamic States and they spread from Russia to South Africa. There is only one Jewish State and it is small enough to fire over with a high powered rifle.

Most people calling themselves “Palestinian” are Jordanian, Syrian or Egyptian. Lebanon was a Christian Country until the Syrians Committed Genocide there in order to create an Islamic Majority. Sort of like what is currently being attempted against The Ivory Coast, Serbia and Southern Sudan.

Everywhere Islam shares a border with others, there is a doctrinal requirement that they expand in to that area, by whatever means are possible. If those mean are military, then military means will be employed. if they are sociopolitical or evangelical, then sociopolitical means or evangelism will be employed. This is what the Koran requires.

Israel is a particularly bitter point of contention. There was nothing of value there before Zionism, the region particularly important to Islam, was left in ruins, was a desert without adequate water or agriculture and was ruled by the ottoman, who were collapsing. This made Zionism easy to finance and the Jews who moved there, very educated and motivated people, brought technology and resources that made the region, more wealthy and powerful than any Islamic Country, despite their small size and limited resources.

Several large Arab Countries have been at war with Israel since its rebirth. They outnumbered Israel in every active war, but always failed to defeat it despite their massive sizes and apparent military advantages. Many of them are still at war in a technical sense and attacking periodically, but can not even cause Israel enough damage to require open retaliation.

This causes them a lot of shame which makes them very angry. If they can not destroy India, they can say India has numbers. if they can not destroy the Russians they can say Russia is big and has many resources. Israel however is tiny, but somehow manages to defeat Islam, this they must strain to find an excuse for. America is the excuse of the day, but America did not help with the first wars. American help has had strings attached which actually tie Israel’s hands. Without American Restraint, Israel would have to retaliate more often and would soon find itself in a great deal of pain.

Withdrawing from Gaza will not bring peace. Disengagement was never marketed as a Peace Enhancing Product. No peace can be negotiated with people who only want you exterminated. They do not care about another pointless country or land or money. They could find those things in any of the countries their parents live in. Syria and Egypt and Jordan are all very large and roomy. No, their motive is nothing less than genocide. So “peace” must be “Dictated” after a fashion. Israel “Withdraws” from Gaza. Then puts up walls. Walls are the most passive defense. Only one who is a terrorist with an intent to cross them for hostile purpose has any reason to complain about them. By placing these walls, borders, autonomy and peace is being forced on unwilling Palestinians. A Judenfrei Palestinian State is then created, just as they always claimed they wanted and they can do whatever they want on their side of the wall, so long as it stays on their side of the wall. If a rocket is launched over that wall, then know that many rockets may be launched back and there will be no danger of Settlers being caught in the crossfire. When “A State” attacks another, it is an act of war after all and we must defend ourselves you understand.

That Machine Tooled Aluminum “Ancient” Mosque is going to have to go eventually. While they are at it, they can return all the Churches they took from Christians and all of the Temples they took from Hindus. Maybe they can even stop persecuting Zoroastrians and return everything east of Persia to them. If they do not, I would suggest opening the largest Wal-Mart on top of Mecca. Turnabout is fair play after all.

Boycott French and Belgian Chocolate until the Legionnaires stop helping Arabs take over The Ivory Coast and return it to the African Ivorians.

*snip* There was nothing of value there before Zionism, the region particularly important to Islam, was left in ruins, was a desert without adequate water or agriculture and was ruled by the ottoman, who were collapsing.

Thats not really the point though- its irrelevant that they were doing nothing with the land. That does not excuse the fact that it was taken off of them and all land contracts and deeds ignored by the new occupants.

The Palrestinians have the right to national self determination as do the Israelis. The problem comes in when the two rights collide. Biblical rights have no legal standing in international law either and cannot be used as valid justification.

People don't care because Palestinians KILL DEFENSELESS CIVILIANS almost daily. Nothing the Israelis do can be worse unless they use WMD's. Also, the world IS obviously watching, otherwise there wouldn't be a worldwide push to bring peace to these people. Israel can't retaliate against non-violent protest without losing everyone's support, including America's and they know it, so the "jackbooter" does care. Israel's just not dumb enough to bring it up themselves.


Well you start of with 2 blatant lies in one sentence.
1 People don't care - They obviously do or I wouldn't bother arguing with you for a start.
2 to take 2004 as an example
"During the year, a total of 76 Israeli civilians and four foreigners were killed as a result of Palestinian terrorist attacks in Israel and the occupied territories, and 41 members of the Israeli Defense Forces were killed in clashes with Palestinian militants. During the same period, more than 800 Palestinians were killed during Israeli military operations in the occupied territories"
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41723.htm

Israel in 2004 according to the figures provided killed nearly
8 times the number of palestinian men women and children
compared to the number of Israelis killed by any palestinian terrorist activity.

You follow your two lies with an erroneous even ludicrous conclusion.
ie Nothing the Israelis do can be worse unless they use WMD's.


As I pointed out Israel strictly controls where the world can watch
and as we all saw they were very keen for us to see them clearing
the illegal settlers from Gaza with tact and concern.
Soldiers and illegal settlers crying and praying together.
Covering this were over 900 reporters from Israel and around the world.
(Tuesday, 16 August, Haaretz)

Some 23,000 palestinians have lost their homes to Israeli bulldozers and bombs since September 2000 -- often at a moment's notice * on the grounds that they "threatened Israel's security."
Without 900 reporters covering them.

"As many as 13,350 Palestinians were made homeless in the Gaza Strip in the first 10 months of last year by Israel's giant armour-plated Caterpillar bulldozers - a total that easily exceeds the 8,500 leaving Israeli settlements this week. In Rafah alone, according to figures from the UN relief agency Unrwa, the rate of house demolitions rose from 15 per month in 2002 to 77 per month between January and October 2004"

- Jonathan Steele - writing for the Guardian (uk newspaper)
No 900 reporters even just for those ones.

Reporters who particularly upset the Israeli forces by doing terrible things
such as, interviewing palestinian political leaders can find themselves
being expelled from occupied territories by Israeli troops.
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=14331

Add to this the difference in the reporting of Israeli vs Palestinian deaths
may perhaps have caused you to get the impression that more Israelis
than Palestinians are being killed.
That anyone at all is being killed is terrible, that the reporting of their deaths
seems to depends on where they are from is disturbing.

http://www.pmwatch.org/pmw/reports/newsnight/021903.html
Which demonstrates that CNN's newsnight in 2002
reported 74% of Israeli deaths but only 18% of Palestinian Deaths.
They reported 83% of Israeli deaths under 18 years old but only 22% of Palestinian deaths under 18 years old.

Also 2002 NPR similarly fails to treat deaths equally
http://www.fair.org/activism/npr-israel-quiet.html

But I wouldn't want you to get the impression that it was all 3 yrs ago
so here from counterpunch an example of LA Times style disproportionality
http://www.counterpunch.org/weir02262005.html

If you care to search for them you can find similar disproportion in
most of the mainstream media both television and newspapers.
From what I have read I suggest that overall
Israeli deaths tend to be covered up to and in some cases over 100% of the time
(over 100% due to there being some follow up article on a previously reported death being published)

Palestinians however are lucky if the reporting on their deaths reach near
to 50% of the actual deaths suffered and in the case of one newspaper
at least has been as low as 4%.


Israel is stubborn dumb enough to do exactly what you say
but regardless of stubborness they have this and previous
american administrations full support in doing pretty much whatever
they wish. On some occasions the US administration will speak out
against something that even they cannot pretend is reasonable or being
taken out of context but they will do no more than that and they certainly
will not follow up with any consequences for Israel.

A classic administration moment was in 2002, when the Israelis
spent over a week demolishing buildings and killing palestinians in Jenin.
Despatched on an urgent peace mission, Colin Powell took 8 days to arrive
in Israel, presumably to give the Israelis enough time for it to be over
so that a line could be drawn under it.*
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/05/jenin0503.htm
I am not sure whether to describe the US administrations attitude there
as deceitful or like the president himself, just plain dumb.

* As far as dumb goes, the Israelis refused to even live up to that tiny
expectation.
As dumb as the president is the Israelis
were correct in their judgement that whether they
made life easy for the US in terms of justifying Israeli activities
to the rest of the world or not
the US would still support them.

Thats not really the point though- its irrelevant that they were doing nothing with the land. That does not excuse the fact that it was taken off of them and all land contracts and deeds ignored by the new occupants.

The Palrestinians have the right to national self determination as do the Israelis. The problem comes in when the two rights collide. Biblical rights have no legal standing in international law either and cannot be used as valid justification.


The Palestinians could not have been living there because they have no means to survive there. According to a census taken by the Catholic Church three hundred years ago, there were scarcely a dozen occupant in Gaza for example, half of them Jewish and most of them starving. The region could not support even a tiny fraction of the Arabs claiming to be displaced, but they make the claim none the less.

The region can only support the people there today, because of Israeli Technology, imported mostly from Russian Jews and Industrial Technology imported by German Jews.

If Israel packed up and left today, the Palestinians would have to pack up and leave too, because they could not survive there without Israel and never would have moved there had it not been developed by Zionists.

If you look at the histories of individual Palestinians, you will find they are themselves immigrants. But they did not flee Genocide as the Jews did. The Palestinians moved to Israel, to commit Genocide. Yassin and Arafat themselves were Egyptians for example. We have had problems in America with various “Palestinians” who had never set foot in “Palestine” committing various terrorist acts here, such as assassinating a lesser known Kennedy Brother.

“International Law” does not exist. No one writes any books these days about the problematic results of bringing in Dozens of Islamic and Fascist Countries in to the UN, but people used to write books about this. They can vote for whatever they like and condemn for defending itself all they want, but they can not do anything without America and America has enough sense to know that they are full of; ahem; “hot air”. They do nothing about the dozens of genuine Genocides, Sudanese Arabs took forty thousand African slaves from Darfur alone last year. Serbia was only defending itself against terrorism and the UN got its puppet Clinton to bomb them for it. Now, they have proven a total of sixteen executions, unsure whether the men executed were innocent of the charges or not; while Saddam is responsible for two million deaths, gassing entire Kurdish Villages but the UN would do nothing, but Milosevic is tried over what turned out to be molehill and will continue to be tried without conviction until he dies of old age.

When one Moslem country goes to war with India, another with Russia, another with Europe or some African Country; the UN cares not as all the other Islamic Countries support them. Israel builds a wall, the most benign defense and they call it a crime against humanity.

They can suck “An Egg”. Israel will not bow to “Global Islam” or its Eurosocialist Lap Dogs.

Israel is doing stuff that the Palestinian terrorists can only dream of. Israel is very oppressive when it comes to the Palestinians. I'm not saying I support terrorism, but I am saying that Israel uses methods that are at least as disgusting. I'm ashamed that the Israeli government has the support of the United Nations and my own country, America. I think the rest of the world should sever all ties with Israel and let them deal with the mess that they have created themselves, without dragging other nations into it.

Israel builds a wall, the most benign defense and they call it a crime against humanity.

They can suck “An Egg”. Israel will not bow to “Global Islam” or its Eurosocialist Lap Dogs.
A benign defence which separates people's homes from places of work. You said in an earlier post that only a terrorist would wish to cross it, I think several hundred thousand commuters would disagree.

As for Eurosocialist Lap Dogs...all I can say is, wtf? It's like calling Israelis communist liberal nazis, just hate-filled meaningless drivel.

<major snip>
Israel builds a wall, the most benign defense and they call it a crime against humanity.

They can suck “An Egg”. Israel will not bow to “Global Islam” or its Eurosocialist Lap Dogs.

It might be a benign defense if it was along its own borders

being on other peoples land makes it less a defense and more an act
of aggression.

Because 1 individual blowing up 1 bus is not equatible to a state sanctioned ethnic cleansing thats why.

And Hezb'allah are Lebanese not Palestinian i believe.

The leader of that state's actions speak loudly aswell. Listen to what Arafa(r)t said while in "office" (When not getting pushed around by the Israelis).

It might be a benign defense if it was along its own borders

being on other peoples land makes it less a defense and more an act
of aggression.


Just whose land do you think it is? They talk about “Ancient Homelands since time immemorial”, but for them “Time immemorial” is apparently the sixties. This is not Palestinian land, these people are Jordanian, Syrian and Egyptians who are just mad because they failed to commit genocide twice.

Mexico attacked America and sold America land, some Mexicans think they are entitled to Texas and everything west of it. Are they? Does Germany have a right to reclaim Poland? No, the Turks sold land back to us as their empire and all of these other little bastards just aren’t happy that we Infidels live free within their line of sight.

“Cutting them off from their work”? If you’re a Palestinian with a Job, you are either a terrorist or you work for an Israeli. They have no economy of their own and they will never build one.


You want an act of aggression, these people blew up six Russian Apartment Buildings, Spent Years blowing up Russian trains and Raked down an entire Russian School, three hundred deaths, a hundred and fifty of them small children. They think Russia is their “Ancient homeland since time immemorial” as well, but they call it Chechnya there. Same thing in India, same thing all over Africa. They are already starting the same thing up in Europe, where do you suppose their “Ancient Homeland Since Time Immemorial” will be in Eurabia?

Keep this up and Israel will have no sympathy when it is your school children that they are gunning down. You may not recognize it just yet, but they are not at war over a country so small that you could fire over it with a gun. They are at war against everyone who is not a Moslem, which is why they are killing everyone they can, from Russia, To India, to Africa. Don’t make me quote the Koran, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Read it yourself and while you are at, try looking at the big picture. Everyone.

A benign defence which separates people's homes from places of work. You said in an earlier post that only a terrorist would wish to cross it, I think several hundred thousand commuters would disagree.

As for Eurosocialist Lap Dogs...all I can say is, wtf? It's like calling Israelis communist liberal nazis, just hate-filled meaningless drivel.

I think Eurosocialist lap dogs is an understatement.

I think Eurosocialist lap dogs is an understatement.
So in addition to racism, you display fascist tendencies, as well as confrontational immaturity? Smooth. :rolleyes:

Just whose land do you think it is? They talk about “Ancient Homelands since time immemorial”, but for them “Time immemorial” is apparently the sixties. This is not Palestinian land, these people are Jordanian, Syrian and Egyptians who are just mad because they failed to commit genocide twice.

Mexico attacked America and sold America land, some Mexicans think they are entitled to Texas and everything west of it. Are they? Does Germany have a right to reclaim Poland? No, the Turks sold land back to us as their empire and all of these other little bastards just aren’t happy that we Infidels live free within their line of sight.

“Cutting them off from their work”? If you’re a Palestinian with a Job, you are either a terrorist or you work for an Israeli. They have no economy of their own and they will never build one.


You want an act of aggression, these people blew up six Russian Apartment Buildings, Spent Years blowing up Russian trains and Raked down an entire Russian School, three hundred deaths, a hundred and fifty of them small children. They think Russia is their “Ancient homeland since time immemorial” as well, but they call it Chechnya there. Same thing in India, same thing all over Africa. They are already starting the same thing up in Europe, where do you suppose their “Ancient Homeland Since Time Immemorial” will be in Eurabia?

Keep this up and Israel will have no sympathy when it is your school children that they are gunning down. You may not recognize it just yet, but they are not at war over a country so small that you could fire over it with a gun. They are at war against everyone who is not a Moslem, which is why they are killing everyone they can, from Russia, To India, to Africa. Don’t make me quote the Koran, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Read it yourself and while you are at, try looking at the big picture. Everyone.Germany gave up all rights to prussia i mean Poland in 1997, only time will tell if it holds..but who wants the Vegas odds on that say in the next hundred years, say what you will ancient homelands do have there apeal ;)

Germany gave up all rights to prussia i mean Poland in 1997, only time will tell if it holds..but who wants the Vegas odds on that say in the next hundred years, say what you will ancient homelands do have there apeal ;)


Moslems conquered Spain, several times. Part of France too. It took the combined efforts of France and Pre-Germany to put an end to that and Crusades to push Islam back in to the Middle East, necessary partially because they were building Monuments to Islamic “Tolerance” using the skulls of Christian Serbs.

That tower still stands and means something very different to Serbs and the Moslems that are currently trying to push them out of Serbia. It is a shame to America that we let Clinton deceive us about that. Just as the French protect the Islamic Terrorists in The Ivory Coast, UN Peacekeepers, mostly from the Middle East, are keeping Serbia from protecting itself. A few of them also opened fire on Female American “Peacekeepers”. I obviously would not want to serve with the Blue Bonnets alongside Jordanians if I was an American Woman.

Know this, Moslems are reclaiming Spain, they are already well on track to do so and Spain is committing political suicide. Will they stop at France this time?

France and Germany can not maintain their current socialist economic policies, their high government benefits and inefficient unmotivated, unrewarded, over regulated work forces; unless they acquire resources from somewhere else. It is a kind of Socialist, Colonialist Economy. Now the European Union is looking to buffer these states by seizing pseudo-colony banana republics like the Ivory Coast and by looking east; but they can only go so far east without conflicting with Russia and that is unworkable, so they must look southeast to Turkey. Absorbing Turkey is Demographic Suicide for Europe. As stands, Turks and others like them are marching all across European Borders, taking over entire cities and as the Koran directs, putting their politics and influence towards establishing Islamic Government.

The Train Bombings are only the tip of the iceberg. The real trouble is coming from their use of education to indoctrinate not only their own next generation, but that of all European Children, they will push for their own legal branch to follow Sharia, they even have Zero Interest Banks, just for Moslems.

They can stab European film makers and Europeans governments will respond, by passing laws against “Blaspheming Against Islam”. Meanwhile, they will spread blood libels against Jew and Christian alike, when they are not making words, actions, by desecrating our corpses.

As always, Britain will hold out longest, but will any amount of time be long enough? Moslems have been at war against the world for Fourteen Hundred Years. Their social system is internally cohesive and designed to expand. Their technological and Scientific Disadvantages can only be nullified by open war, but Europe is no longer capable of this practice. Europe, is Dying. Israel, is Europe’s only hope.

Europe, is Dying. Israel, is Europe’s only hope.
Well, the Muslim chaps down the road do a splendid 10" pizza for £3 and a 40cm long chip naan for £1.50. As yet, they have expressed no desire to implement sharia law. :confused:

The Nordic/ARYAN people have alwas looked eastword from the Vikings to the teutonic knights, yes Nuclear armed russia would be a serious foe.. but Germany could have Nuclear weapeons tommorrow if they wanted them, i can,t see Germany taken in tens of mililion of Moslems though Germany did have the handshar division in ww2.

Iran got its name from Aryans, though there is a world of difference between originating Aryans and Hitler’s idealized work of fiction.

For the most part, the Arab world worked with the Nazis. The Turks even committed their own genocide, but against Christians, which they have never accepted responsibility for. Mein Kampf is the best selling book in Turkey today not including the Koran. Yasser Arafat’s Uncle, who taught him nationalism, worked directly with Hitler, unsuccessfully. Iran however was kept out of Nazi hands for use as a transit point to circumvent Nazi controlled areas and provides resources for the Soviets. Early Iranian Industrialization was for this purpose and later conflicts, always made Iran a centerpiece for the Middle East, as a crucial point for material transit between the East and West.

Germany, depends a great deal on American military bases, both for economic and military assistance. Germany makes some very nice equipment and is actually manufacturing some nuclear technology, both legally and illegally, for the Arab world. A big catch, is that German Economics require someone else handle their defenses. They can invest in production instead of defense and receive huge amounts of money, which can further finance development, from American Military. Now for decades, Moslems have been pouring in to Germany, France, Spain and everywhere else, taking low paying jobs, forming closed communities and increasing crime. There are more of them than there ever were Jews and more are coming, both through immigration and Europe’s only positive birth rate.

A big question is why American Arabs are well educated and assimilate well, while European Arabs don’t. It is because most American Arabs, are Christians who fled the Middle East as Europe and America turned over control to Arab Governments. They came to America to escape persecution and often, genocide. The Arabs who go to Europe are mostly Moslems and mostly interested in spreading Islam and the persecution it imposes. They have no interest in blending in. They have no courtesy.

Understand, my people had no country for centuries. We had to work out ways to coexist. We tried to keep to ourselves, not impose our laws on others, contribute something everywhere we went and always learned the local languages and cultures, adapting. Moslems are very different, they evangelize and their goal is taking over and making wherever they go, like the Middle East. They accuse us of making the world a desert, go to Google Maps and look at Israel and the Arab World. There is a perfectly straight line where we divided our border with Egypt. Our side is the one that looks green from space.

Have you any idea how much work that took? Israel is the largest agricultural project the Human Race has ever undertaken. You can also see the disorganized little area where Gaza is. It will also look like a desert soon.

The Arabs who go to Europe are mostly Moslems and mostly interested in spreading Islam and the persecution it imposes. They have no interest in blending in. They have no courtesy.
I live in a mostly Muslim urban area of Manchester, UK. The violently oppressive Quran-spreading Arabs here, keep little tubs of ham discreetly under the counter, to add to a pizza if a customer requests it. They also remember your regular order if you return more than a couple of times in a month.

So essentially the empirical evidence I see, purchase and eat every week, exposes your words for a load of BS.

<snip>
For the most part, the Arab world worked with the Nazis.

Oh my friend, i take it you are Israeli or Jewish at least. Then you should also know your own history. The Stern Gang and the Irgun were also allied with Nazi Germany....


.....they supported Hitler because he was deporting Jews out of Germany to Israel. They wanted more and more to fight the upcoming struggle for independence. They were more then happy to support him as long as the immigrees kept coming.

And what the Holocaust has to do with this at any rate i don't know and i don't know why you brought this up. If it is an attempt to justify your current actions by using a smokescreen its not going to work.

Bottom line: the people living in Israel and the occupied territories (East Jerusalem, Gaza and the West Bank) have the right of self determination, regardless of Palestinian or Israeli heritage. To deny one means the other has no right to decide either.

Eurosocialist?!!? Do even know European politics? The majority of govts in Europe (and nearly all until the past year or so) are not Leftist. I dunno what your smoking mate but i'd like some :D

I live in a mostly Muslim urban area of Manchester, UK. The violently oppressive Quran-spreading Arabs here, keep little tubs of ham discreetly under the counter, to add to a pizza if a customer requests it. They also remember your regular order if you return more than a couple of times in a month.

So essentially the empirical evidence I see, purchase and eat every week, exposes your words for a load of BS.


Unless they are blowing themselves up on your trains. Give them time and they’ll graduate from the “Tube” to schools.

The twenty percent of Israel that is Arab tends to be polite as well, until they are planting a bomb that is.

Maybe you would like to show me an Arab Country that allows twenty percent Jews to live there?

Oh my friend, i take it you are Israeli or Jewish at least. Then you should also know your own history. The Stern Gang and the Irgun were also allied with Nazi Germany....


.....they supported Hitler because he was deporting Jews out of Germany to Israel. They wanted more and more to fight the upcoming struggle for independence. They were more then happy to support him as long as the immigrees kept coming.

And what the Holocaust has to do with this at any rate i don't know and i don't know why you brought this up. If it is an attempt to justify your current actions by using a smokescreen its not going to work.

Bottom line: the people living in Israel and the occupied territories (East Jerusalem, Gaza and the West Bank) have the right of self determination, regardless of Palestinian or Israeli heritage. To deny one means the other has no right to decide either.

Eurosocialist?!!? Do even know European politics? The majority of govts in Europe (and nearly all until the past year or so) are not Leftist. I dunno what your smoking mate but i'd like some :D


Socialists is the only description I can apply to economics in most of the European Union. How can I describe such ridiculous levels of regulation and tax rates, coupled with such heavy government benefits, that so many people choose not to work at all? Of course it can not survive that way, so absorb Turkey in to the European Union already so I can laugh at you when they take over.

The Stern Gang was a handful of idiots. They sent a Negotiator to Hitler and he was killed. Hitler talked to Arafat’s Uncle Personally and agreed to give the region to the entire region to the Arabs if they removed the Jews. This was a lot more than just Israel that the promised them. He also got in to an argument with Arafat’s Uncle over whether they should drink coffee or tea.

Also, unlike the Stern Gang, the Arabs were lead by Arafat. Jews turned the Stern Gang over to the British and they died in a hail of gunfire.

You are completely wrong about the rest of the Irgun, they may have opposed British Occupation, but they were not allied to Nazis, ever. There was at one point an effort to pay off Germany to ship Jews to Israel instead of executing them, but Hitler just took the money and killed the Jews anyway, sort of like the Palestinian Authority.

Things like the Holocaust, are why we need our own country. There are not a lot of us left, so that country can be small. Say, Israel sized. So we created a country. In the middle of a vacant desert, we created a wealthy, prosperous country. The man who was responsible for the first Nuclear Submarine, teaches at the Technion in Israel today. We created AOL instant messenger. We created Windows NT which forms the core of modern windows. We designed Intel’s new processor. We developed America’s Anti-Missile technology. We own the Diamond Industry. We are responsible for most of the worlds Biotech advances and Christian Evangelist Ministers get cancer, they come to Israel for treatment because we have the most advanced treatments in the world. We created one hell of a country and these people who were nomads before, you would cut our country that we worked so hard to build, in to piece just because they are not happy with the other dozens of countries they already have?

They outnumber us two hundred and forty to one. Israel is less than one half, of one percent of the middle east, but we have four hundred nuclear weapons and let a million Arabs live here already so leave us alone.

Unless they are blowing themselves up on your trains. Give them time and they’ll graduate from the “Tube” to schools.

The twenty percent of Israel that is Arab tends to be polite as well, until they are planting a bomb that is.

Maybe you would like to show me an Arab Country that allows twenty percent Jews to live there?
Your words display paranoia and insecurity.

Show me a Jewish country which does not have its origins in terrorism, and its future in apartheid. :rolleyes:

No-one's history is pretty, if you look deeply enough. Hell, most of the West was built on genocide and slavery, and owes its success to having started practicing on each other early. I have belonged to Russia, the US and the UK, and between them they have accounted for most the world's bloodshed. I just need to spend a decade in Spain and Germany to complete the set. But people can move on from that and learn to live with each other. I am glad that where I live, people have done just that. You constantly focus on the unpleasant, and use it to feed your racial hatred. Anything which does not fit in with your preferred version of reality (where black men are a Threat), you ignore. I'm sure you consider the end of Apartheid in South Africa to be a tragedy. Whatever. I'm just making it clear I can see you for the racist that you are.

Just sounds like a Powder Keg waiting to go up. And unfortunatly Israel has NUKES!!! I sure as hell will NOT be visiting Israel any time in the near future.

And I am Wiccan.

1 Socialists is the only description I can apply to economics in most of the European Union. How can I describe such ridiculous levels of regulation and tax rates, coupled with such heavy government benefits, that so many people choose not to work at all? Of course it can not survive that way, so absorb Turkey in to the European Union already so I can laugh at you when they take over.

Things like the Holocaust, are why we need our own country. There are not a lot of us left, so that country can be small. Say, Israel sized. So we created a country. In the middle of a vacant desert, we created a wealthy, prosperous country. 2 The man who was responsible for the first Nuclear Submarine, teaches at the Technion in Israel today. We created AOL instant messenger. We created Windows NT which forms the core of modern windows. We designed Intel’s new processor. We developed America’s Anti-Missile technology. We own the Diamond Industry. We are responsible for most of the worlds Biotech advances and Christian Evangelist Ministers get cancer, they come to Israel for treatment because we have the most advanced treatments in the world. We created one hell of a country and these people who were nomads before, you would cut our country that we worked so hard to build, in to piece just because they are not happy with the other dozens of countries they already have?

They outnumber us two hundred and forty to one. Israel is less than one half, of one percent of the middle east, but we have four hundred nuclear weapons and let a million Arabs live here already so leave us alone.

1. Europe is not one country. There are round about 350 million people in it- so thats kinda knocks your 'take over' point on the head. Stop thinking of Europe as 1 policy, 1 opinion, 1 state. It makes you look a tad silly.

2. And that excuses the fact that you essentailly just walked in a kicked people off their land and seized it for your own? Nice to know i can go back to France and knock on some randomers door and say 'Hey, my ancestors were from around here about a thousand years ago... now get the fuck out of my new house' :rolleyes:

3. You let them?? How kind of you to 'let them' live on their own land.

Yet again. the Holocaust has absolutley no relevance to the issue of statehood for the Palestinians. Stop trying to deflect the issue and come up with some legitimate reasons that they are not entitled to self determination.

Well, the Muslim chaps down the road do a splendid 10" pizza for £3 and a 40cm long chip naan for £1.50. As yet, they have expressed no desire to implement sharia law. :confused:

Haha, thanks, I needed a laugh after wading through Yeru Shalayim's ranting. I'll be keeping a very close watch on the Halal butchery and kebab shops near my house for any signs of impending jihad. Seriously, our Muslim community in NZ is great, apart from the inevitable odd nutter that any community has. I'm more sick of the idiots who spray-painted a mosque after the London bombings.

Your words display paranoia and insecurity.

Show me a Jewish country which does not have its origins in terrorism, and its future in apartheid. :rolleyes:

No-one's history is pretty, if you look deeply enough. Hell, most of the West was built on genocide and slavery, and owes its success to having started practicing on each other early. I have belonged to Russia, the US and the UK, and between them they have accounted for most the world's bloodshed. I just need to spend a decade in Spain and Germany to complete the set. But people can move on from that and learn to live with each other. I am glad that where I live, people have done just that. You constantly focus on the unpleasant, and use it to feed your racial hatred. Anything which does not fit in with your preferred version of reality (where black men are a Threat), you ignore. I'm sure you consider the end of Apartheid in South Africa to be a tragedy. Whatever. I'm just making it clear I can see you for the racist that you are.


Europeans tried to exterminate us, twice, Russians created “An Autonomous Jewish Region” that had no Jews in it. The Arabs have been trying to exterminate us for fifty years and the European Union is voting to help them. Why ever would I possibly feel paranoid?

In other news, adding to the Moslems who are slowly taking over Serbia, Russia, Ivory Coast, India and Sudan one “Ancient Homeland since time Immemorial” at a time, I now add Thailand where another bunch of Islamic Squatters are opening a violent can of worms to eradicate the infidel Buddhists.

Of course they call themselves the Pattani United Liberation Organization and their leader says he has no connection to the terrorists. Most of them are Malaysian.

Now I can not wait until they claim France is their ancient homeland since time immemorial, which should come shortly after they finish their Jihadi Reconquista of Spain, one train at a time.

I was taught in Sub School that Hiraim Rickover was the father of Nuclear Submarines, as far as jews being Terrorists they were blowing up and Assanating leaders just ask LORD MOYNE.. aganist the Britsh when the Britsh were trying to liberate Jews from Hitlers Death camps and did,t need the shit, so don,t ever say Jews were never terrorists themselfs and still are.

Europeans tried to exterminate us, twice, Russians created “An Autonomous Jewish Region” that had no Jews in it. The Arabs have been trying to exterminate us for fifty years and the European Union is voting to help them. Why ever would I possibly feel paranoid?

In other news, adding to the Moslems who are slowly taking over Serbia, Russia, Ivory Coast, India and Sudan one “Ancient Homeland since time Immemorial” at a time, I now add Thailand where another bunch of Islamic Squatters are opening a violent can of worms to eradicate the infidel Buddhists.

Of course they call themselves the Pattani United Liberation Organization and their leader says he has no connection to the terrorists. Most of them are Malaysian.

Now I can not wait until they claim France is their ancient homeland since time immemorial, which should come shortly after they finish their Jihadi Reconquista of Spain, one train at a time.

Ok, now that you have finally crossed the border into 'La La Land', i'm not going to continue this debate with you. Just try not to take that over too ;)

1. Europe is not one country. There are round about 350 million people in it- so thats kinda knocks your 'take over' point on the head. Stop thinking of Europe as 1 policy, 1 opinion, 1 state. It makes you look a tad silly.

2. And that excuses the fact that you essentailly just walked in a kicked people off their land and seized it for your own? Nice to know i can go back to France and knock on some randomers door and say 'Hey, my ancestors were from around here about a thousand years ago... now get the fuck out of my new house' :rolleyes:

3. You let them?? How kind of you to 'let them' live on their own land.

Yet again. the Holocaust has absolutley no relevance to the issue of statehood for the Palestinians. Stop trying to deflect the issue and come up with some legitimate reasons that they are not entitled to self determination.


They are pointing at two thousand year old ruins and claiming that these were their homes only a few decades ago. They were lead by an Egyptian, from Jordan, Egypt and Syria. This is history, History, what happened, what happened. They were not kicked off their land, there was nothing here and they could not survive here in these numbers without our technology anyway. There could not possibly have been these “Fields of rolling green”, hell, we have photographs of the arid deserts which existed before we put in heavy, modern, irrigation.

I am only going to explain this so many times to you so you better soak it up.

If you think your oh so safe, you are not paying attention. We are not the only country they are targeting and where ever you think your so secure, it is only a matter of time before they get to you. They are already killing people near you and their Koran tells them to kill you too. If You Actually Read It Before Opening Your Mouth You Would Know This.

There will never be a holocaust against us again, no matter how many Goose Stepping Arab Islamists and Eurosocialists work to make it happen. We have the technology to destroy anyone, we developed it in case the Soviets came in on behalf of the Arabs and we will us every weapon at our disposal if we have to, so stop pushing us. We may be one of the worlds geographically smallest countries, but we will be the mouse that roared.

Ok, now that you have finally crossed the border into 'La La Land', i'm not going to continue this debate with you. Just try not to take that over too ;)


Go to Reuters.com and read the news. Not that News has any impact on your Eurosocialist Opinions.

I was taught in Sub School that Hiraim Rickover was the father of Nuclear Submarines, as far as jews being Terrorists they were blowing up and Assanating leaders just ask LORD MOYNE.. aganist the Britsh when the Britsh were trying to liberate Jews from Hitlers Death camps and did,t need the shit, so don,t ever say Jews were never terrorists themselfs and still are.


I am not talking about the guy who wrote the first “Feasibility Study”. I am talking about the guy who actually made it happen.

We already talked about the Stern Gang.

When the British were in charge of the “Mandate”, they tried to disarm everyone. Disarming Jews was easy because we were building settlement. Disarming arabs was hard because they were Nomads. This is why we hid our weapons, aircraft that we acquired and our weapons factories and this is why some people, like the Sterns, began acting like idiots. We turned them over to the British and the British killed them. The Arabs of course, never stopped killing Brits and are still at it today. Have fun riding the train.

They are pointing at two thousand year old ruins and claiming that these were their homes only a few decades ago. They were lead by an Egyptian, from Jordan, Egypt and Syria. This is history, History, what happened, what happened. They were not kicked off their land, there was nothing here and they could not survive here in these numbers without our technology anyway. There could not possibly have been these “Fields of rolling green”, hell, we have photographs of the arid deserts which existed before we put in heavy, modern, irrigation.


Your doing the SAME BLOODY THING!! What is all the 'biblical rights' bullshit for then?!

So you telling me..... when Israel was created there were NOArabic people living there WHATSOEVER?? Unless that is the case, you took their land from them. Stole if you will, settled, occupied whatever.

Jews have the right to self determination, so do Palestinians.

There have been Jewish terrorists. There have been Muslim terrorists. There have been Cristian terrorists. There have been Hindu terrorists. There have been terrorists from all major religions.

They do not represent there religions. It is unfair to look at their actions and say that is what they are all like.

Most Palestiniens want peace, most Israelies do as well. Its just we don't here about them over the explosions.

I couldn't find a recent thread for this, so here is my own. What is your opinion on Israel's alleged occupation of Palestinian land? The Gaza withdrawl? A potential West Bank withdrawl? ...Please keep it calm, mainly just your opinion. Also state your religion.

I'm an atheist Jew. I think that the Gaza withdrawl was a very good thing. There weren't many Israelis there anyway. As for the West Bank, I think Israel should let go of outposts and small bits of land, but still keep major areas. I don't think Israel is an occupier. I think that Israel should peacefully coexist with the Palestinians. No seperate homeland for them in Israel's current borders. They have several other tax-free nations to go to.


Isreal take the west bank whit force in a war so isreal occupier.

I think too country its the only answer for this conflict.

Your doing the SAME BLOODY THING!! What is all the 'biblical rights' bullshit for then?!

So you telling me..... when Israel was created there were NOArabic people living there WHATSOEVER?? Unless that is the case, you took their land from them. Stole if you will, settled, occupied whatever.

Jews have the right to self determination, so do Palestinians.


They should self determine themselves back to Jordan, Syria and Egypt. They have no right to self determine themselves in to Israel.

There were some Arabs when Zionism began, most were nomads but a few settled down as we began to develop the area. Most of those, are Israeli Arabs today. How do you think a Million Arabs became Israeli Citizens?

The problems came up when a few thousand Arabs ran off during the war they started and more than a million arabs came back claiming to be displaced, basically putting on an act designed to undermine the ethical motive for creating Israel. They pretend to be victims, so they can manipulate those with soft hearts and equally soft heads.

The Biblical Argument is a big part of the religious motive for “Why Here”, but the primary reason which the World recognized, was utilitarian. We need a country where we can be responsible for our own defense because we can not trust the rest of you to defend us. Your argument here is a big part of why we can not trust you.

Do not follow the Israeli/Palestinian Dichotomy. There are not just two countries involved here. Palestinians are just one head of the Hydra. There are many other heads sprouting from Islam and they are spreading their Jihad all over the world. They want you to focus on Israel, they want you to think that you can offer us up a sacrifice, that by betraying us you will gain some immunity from their own conquest. This is not the case, they can only make peace when you submit. If you even offer peace, they are instructed that it is a sign of weakness.

There have been Jewish terrorists. There have been Muslim terrorists. There have been Cristian terrorists. There have been Hindu terrorists. There have been terrorists from all major religions.

They do not represent there religions. It is unfair to look at their actions and say that is what they are all like.

Most Palestiniens want peace, most Israelies do as well. Its just we don't here about them over the explosions.


I disagree. Most Palestinians could have had peace dozens of times over the past half century. Most Palestinians rejected it. They elected a replacement leader for their previous Nazi Sympathizer with a new Nazi Sympathizer. He talks about “All their land”, he means “All the land”. Most Palestinians could have had peace back in Jordan or Syria or Egypt. They chose instead to be “Palestinians” so they chose war.

The best way to understand their religion is to read the Koran and look at Mohammed’s life. He declared war dozens of times in his life and instructed his followers to dominate the world, by whatever means are necessary. Reading the Koran it is quite clear that there is a correspondence between Peace and Submission. Only when all submit to Islam as the “Master Religion”, will that “Master Religion” allow Peace, but in the form of slavery.

This is true in Serbia, Ivory Coast, Russia, India, now Thailand, Everywhere.

Isreal take the west bank whit force in a war so isreal occupier.

I think too country its the only answer for this conflict.



When you are attacked, by an Army that outnumbers you six to one, you have a right to defend yourself. No Arab State ever agreed to the Green Line while it was still on the negotiating table. Now that they have no hope of ever taking Israel by force, they are employing it only as a misleading tool. An obfuscation. If they can press us back to the green line politically, Israel will only be a few miles wide in some places and they will be able to recover some of the logistic and tactical advantages they used to enjoy, in their war to exterminate us. This is why their new leader Abbas is talking about “All their land”.

There can not be a “Two State Solution”, even if Palestine was created, because there are dozens of Islamic States and will surely be dozens more as they work their way outward, pressing in to all of the other countries they are attacking.

Well, the first Prime Minister of Israel was a Jewish terrorist who participated in numerous acts of violence against the then British Palestine. Quite kind of Britain and the UN to allow Israel to exist wouldn't you say, after a campaign of bombings and shootings against the colonial authorities?

And European Jews founded Israel out of nothing, you think? Just a short walk from a concentration camp or a flattened ghetto to a ship, pausing to pick up building materials along the way. My ass. Europe and the US paid for the whole thing, laid on the transport, and gave away their mountain of surplus military kit. Unless you think the survivors of the Warsaw ghetto immediately took to building Sherman tanks and later M48s under license.

Who fought alongside Israel against Nasser's Egypt in 1956? Why, those eurosocialist Nazis from Britain and France, of course! And who ended the whole enterprise halfway through? Why, your lifelong allies the Americans!

Do you even know the history of your own country? How come an ex-Russian ex-American Brit whose formal schooling in history ended at the age of 18, has a wider view of history than someone for whom the whole affair defines his character?

It is there land, i don,t belive in jesus or yawah, i also know that the Torah says Gentiles are to be used like cattle, and Isreal is the 16 richist country in the world but recive 1/3 of all American Forigen aid, so you need America aid to survive or your duping the American Christion tax payer, even though i don,t belive in your yawah fairy tales which is the sole reason for your clam to the land or even Jesus as the son of god my tax dollars are still sent to a bunch of greedy JEWS.

"The problems came up when a few thousand Arabs ran off during the war they started and more than a million arabs came back claiming to be displaced, basically putting on an act designed to undermine the ethical motive for creating Israel. They pretend to be victims, so they can manipulate those with soft hearts and equally soft heads."

That's hilarious. So two million citizens of Egypt, Jordan and Syria decided to leave their homes and become refugees in a Jewish state? The world's only voluntary refugees...

my tax dollars are still sent to a bunch of greedy JEWS.
Now now, just because he is a racist, there is no need to stoop to his level. :)

It is there land, i don,t belive in jesus or yawah, i also know that the Torah says Gentiles are to be used like cattle, and Isreal is the 16 richist country in the world but recive 1/3 of all American Forigen aid, so you need America aid to survive or your duping the American Christion tax payer, even though i don,t belive in your yawah fairy tales which is the sole reason for your clam to the land or even Jesus as the son of god my tax dollars are still sent to a bunch of greedy JEWS.
Posts like this are the reason I rarely post on Israel threads now - people really just don't know what they're talking about, and say borderline racist and/or anti-Semitic things as a result.

Misconception #1 - Gentiles/cattle - First of all, the Torah is also known as one third of what (Gentile) Christians call the Old Testament - thus I doubt it says Gentiles should be used as cattle. Second, cite the line you refer to when you say this. Third, this is ridiculous - the entire book of Exodus is a castigation of the institution of slavery. Fourth, the word "Gentile" didn't come around until well after the Torah was written.

Misconception #2 - Calling someone's religion a "fairy tale" is a good idea. This should be self-evident. I really shouldn't have to point out how much this stifles actual argument in favor of name-calling. This justifies the "you're going to hell" response, which I don't think anyone on this thread will use, but still...come on.

Misconception #3 - God is the only reason Israelis claim their land. The historical documentation that Jews lived in that area thousands of years ago is actually quite good. Further, many say that Jews need a nation to safeguard against a repetition of the Holocaust, pogroms, or mass expulsions - and it's not like any country would give away a bit of land to become a Jewish homeland.

Misconception #4 - Jews are greedy. I think the moderators will probably deal with this one eventually, so I'll just point it out. Most everyone else on this thread knows that stereotyping is probably bad.

Well, the first Prime Minister of Israel was a Jewish terrorist who participated in numerous acts of violence against the then British Palestine. Quite kind of Britain and the UN to allow Israel to exist wouldn't you say, after a campaign of bombings and shootings against the colonial authorities?

And European Jews founded Israel out of nothing, you think? Just a short walk from a concentration camp or a flattened ghetto to a ship, pausing to pick up building materials along the way. My ass. Europe and the US paid for the whole thing, laid on the transport, and gave away their mountain of surplus military kit. Unless you think the survivors of the Warsaw ghetto immediately took to building Sherman tanks and later M48s under license.

Who fought alongside Israel against Nasser's Egypt in 1956? Why, those eurosocialist Nazis from Britain and France, of course! And who ended the whole enterprise halfway through? Why, your lifelong allies the Americans!

Do you even know the history of your own country? How come an ex-Russian ex-American Brit whose formal schooling in history ended at the age of 18, has a wider view of history than someone for whom the whole affair defines his character?


We financed Britain in the First World War. Britain agreed to let us keep the land we were buying from the Turks as our own country in exchange for all the money we gave them. We financed Britain, both by lending money and with the Diamond Trade. Britain was acting in its own interests when it relocated Jews from Belgium to Israel. America acts in its own interests when it trades with Israel today. Israelis invented much of what defines the modern world, whether American anti-missile technology or cell phones.

America lends Israel money now, at good interest rates because Israel has perfect credit. people who do not understand financing confuse these loans with the kinds of bailout packages America gives to Japan or Mexico, but these loans must be repaid and Israel can repay them.

Jews around the world paid to create Israel, both with money and blood. Jews from Germany were very knowledgeable of weapons. Haber for example practically invented Chemical Weapons and Luger developed most of what defines modern firearms. It was no mistake that both American and Soviet Nuclear programs were almost entirely Jewish. Our Knowledge and Expertise is what we used to Build Israel, from a wasteland. it is what we have most to sell as well.

If America ever betrayed Israel, Israel would sell its knowledge to someone else for the resources it needs to survive. That someone else, would become the next “Sole Superpower”. See how worried people get when Israel sells technology to India or China. It is in America’s best interests to continue to recognize, the only Democracy in the Middle East, as its best friend. Britain should do the same, they still profit from our Trades.

The French did business with us early on, but they are being undermined; by their own interests and their connections to the Arab world. I fear they are a lost cause, along with the rest of the European Union. Things have been shaky, ever since they backed out of that Navy Trade. Germany has a better record for manufacturing but that age is also passing as they do too much business with the Arabs. We are looking instead to have India do more of our heavy manufacturing in exchange for missile, computer and small arms technology.

"The problems came up when a few thousand Arabs ran off during the war they started and more than a million arabs came back claiming to be displaced, basically putting on an act designed to undermine the ethical motive for creating Israel. They pretend to be victims, so they can manipulate those with soft hearts and equally soft heads."

That's hilarious. So two million citizens of Egypt, Jordan and Syria decided to leave their homes and become refugees in a Jewish state? The world's only voluntary refugees...


As a matter of fact they did. Under the nature of “Martyrdom”. The biggest Martyr blows himself up while killing infidels, be they Christian, Jewish or Hindu. Collective suffering is a sort of dispersed martyrdom. This is why they bring so much on themselves and work so hard to avoid any sort of actual peace, no matter how much Israel lays on the table for them.

They set up squat in Gaza and the West Bank, which is west only of Jordan; because that way they can always demand a contiguous state, which would cut Israel in half. Once an offer for a land arrangement in which Israel was cut in half was even offered and they rejected it.

Posts like this are the reason I rarely post on Israel threads now - people really just don't know what they're talking about, and say borderline racist and/or anti-Semitic things as a result.


Misconception #1 - Gentiles/cattle - First of all, the Torah is also known as one third of what (Gentile) Christians call the Old Testament - thus I doubt it says Gentiles should be used as cattle. Second, cite the line you refer to when you say this. Third, this is ridiculous - the entire book of Exodus is a castigation of the institution of slavery. Fourth, the word "Gentile" didn't come around until well after the Torah was written.

Misconception #2 - Calling someone's religion a "fairy tale" is a good idea. This should be self-evident. I really shouldn't have to point out how much this stifles actual argument in favor of name-calling. This justifies the "you're going to hell" response, which I don't think anyone on this thread will use, but still...come on.

Misconception #3 - God is the only reason Israelis claim their land. The historical documentation that Jews lived in that area thousands of years ago is actually quite good. Further, many say that Jews need a nation to safeguard against a repetition of the Holocaust, pogroms, or mass expulsions - and it's not like any country would give away a bit of land to become a Jewish homeland.

Misconception #4 - Jews are greedy. I think the moderators will probably deal with this one eventually, so I'll just point it out. Most everyone else on this thread knows that stereotyping is probably bad.


All good points, though I doubt this particular member of the “Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party” will be removed because of his attitudes. There are a lot of Nazis on Nation States. If they get in my crosshairs however, they will likely find themselves filled with 9mm holes. The IMI Uzi is very effective.

A lot of the misquotes from Nazi propagandists go to various fraudulent sources. Most Islamic Propagandists today go to Nazi Sources which in some cases go back to Czarist and Communist sources. A common one is fraudulent quotes supposedly from little known Talmudic texts. No one knows the entire Talmud, there are just too many of them from different regions and different eras. It has been easy to simply publish a false quote from a book that either does not exist, or is too obscure to find.

I think the PLO still has the “Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion” on its Arabic pages. A good example of one of these fraudulent pieces.

For the Arabic Speakers,
Abadan an tahni marra!

Yeah i could see trading MISSLE tecnoligy with India there enemys are Moslems same as yours, in fact the U.S State deparment got on Isreal for sharing Nuclear tecnoligy, and who cares if it was your ancient homeland do you think your the only people in history that used to have a homeland for thousands of years then got kicked out of it the American Indian was running Around North America for 10k we are not giving them there land back, but your special and there not.

All good points, though I doubt this particular member of the “Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party” will be removed because of his attitudes. There are a lot of Nazis on Nation States. If they get in my crosshairs however, they will likely find themselves filled with 9mm holes. The IMI Uzi is very effective.

A lot of the misquotes from Nazi propagandists go to various fraudulent sources. Most Islamic Propagandists today go to Nazi Sources which in some cases go back to Czarist and Communist sources. A common one is fraudulent quotes supposedly from little known Talmudic texts. No one knows the entire Talmud, there are just too many of them from different regions and different eras. It has been easy to simply publish a false quote from a book that either does not exist, or is too obscure to find.

I think the PLO still has the “Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion” on its Arabic pages. A good example of one of these fraudulent pieces.

For the Arabic Speakers,
Abadan an tahni marra!Yeah and colt make a fine 6920 i own one 223 makes nice holes to, and i carry a 9mm to a german Browning hi-power made in nov-41, you don,t scare me but your peoples actions towards the poor refugees does decust me.

I think this turn of events calls for a tape measure.

*Produces a tape measure*

Come on, boys. Let's settle this. Don't be shy. :p

Yeah i could see trading MISSLE tecnoligy with India there enemys are Moslems same as yours, in fact the U.S State deparment got on Isreal for sharing Nuclear tecnoligy, and who cares if it was your ancient homeland do you think your the only people in history that used to have a homeland for thousands of years then got kicked out of it the American Indian was running Around North America for 10k we are not giving them there land back, but your special and there not.


Mexicans would like your reasoning. Then again, they like the Palestinians reasoning as well.

Native Americans were mostly nomads, like the Arabs. They had no concept of land ownership. Some of them were more settled, they cut deals with British and French settlers and later Yankees, getting in good with the newcomers and back stabbing the more hostile natives. As a result, a lot of them wound up with good lives, good education, large amounts of land and now big casinos and tons of money.. Hostile tribes, wound up with less. Mexico could never develop the west because they were backwards, lead by a dictator and unrealistic. They could not even hold on to Texas, that lead to wars where they eventually traded the entire southwest. Some Mexicans they have a right to it back. Like the Arabs, they never really owned it, but they think they have a right to it.

Your reasoning is flawed little Nazi. All we want is the tiny little country we built. You see us as your enemy, but we are no threat to you. All we want is peace.

The Arabs, to whom you lend your allegiance however, are planning and engaging your destruction. You will loose your country, your culture, your freedom, your very life; to them. You think betraying Israel will buy you favor in their eyes? To them you are less than human. they will use you and then they will throw you away. You are to them, a dupe, a slave. They use you against us and then they will turn on you next. They would not happy with Israel, they also want Serbia and India and Russia and Spain and everything. See that your hate blinds you. Understand that your opinions are irrational. Recognize your enemy, or you have already lost.

We will survive. We will do whatever we have to, in order to insure that. America is our friend, has been our friend, has its best interests in our friendship. We gave America everything. Computer Architecture, our people did that. The Atom Bomb, our people did that. Israeli technology is on par with America, because American technology is our creation. America benefits from our work, we are generous guests, we always were, though not always appreciated. Whosoever Blesses Israel, Shall Themselves Be Blessed. The opposite is also true. Overthrowest those that rise up against thee. Betray us and we will find friends elsewhere.

Yeah and colt make a fine 6920 i own one 223 makes nice holes to, and i carry a 9mm to a german Browning hi-power made in nov-41, you don,t scare me but your peoples actions towards the poor refugees does decust me.


I am not threatening you, but when they are finished using you, the Arabs will follow the Koran and “Smite” you “Above the neck” and “On all” of your “Fingertips”. Your back is ripe for a Saif.

Native Americans were mostly nomads, like the Arabs. They had no concept of land ownership. Some of them were more settled, they cut deals with British and French settlers and later Yankees, getting in good with the newcomers and back stabbing the more hostile natives. As a result, a lot of them wound up with good lives, good education, large amounts of land and now big casinos and tons of money.. Hostile tribes, wound up with less.

Ugh, this really does not help your argument at all. Native Americans were mass-murdered and had their lands stolen. Their treatment was abysmal, and I don't know why you'd accept a comparison between that and Israel. Especially the "land ownership" part. Many cultures don't accept individual ownership of land but this doesn't excuse other cultures from forcing them off that land.

Ugh, this really does not help your argument at all. Native Americans were mass-murdered and had their lands stolen. Their treatment was abysmal, and I don't know why you'd accept a comparison between that and Israel. Especially the "land ownership" part. Many cultures don't accept individual ownership of land but this doesn't excuse other cultures from forcing them off that land.


I have to be honest, what happened to the American Natives is complex. “The Five Civilized Tribes” made a deal with the British against their enemies and the British kept their part of the deal, helping drive those hostile tribes to near extinction; then came back to those “Five Civilized Tribes” against The Yankees. When the Yankees Won, those tribes lost and this is what the Trail of Tears resulted from. They were allied to the British and when the British lost, it meant they lost. Whenever a tribe took sides in an international conflict, it had consequences. These details are not often recounted in history lessons.

Most natives died from being sneezed upon, Europeans did not understand the nature of immunity and genuinely thought the natives were being punished for “Heathen Ways” and tried to convert them. Spanish, learning to run an empire from being conquered by Moslems, were more brutal in the more developed south; but the Aztecs and Toltecs were not peaceful people. They were Imperialistic Cannibals who dined on less developed tribes. The Spanish thought they landed in hell and frankly had a good impact, putting an end to human sacrifice and cannibalism.

This does not justify colonialism, but it does try to explain the European mindset. European Missionaries had the best intentions, the British and French saw it as their burden to civilize the northern natives. America, was self interested but involved the Tribes. Even Custer, was acting under orders to protect one tribe from another.

The better comparison I was trying to emphasize was Aztlan. The natives do not well correlate to Israel, but Aztlan does.

Mexico technically owned the American West, but lost it in a war that Mexico started and Sold It.

Technically, The Ottoman Empire Owned Israel on behalf of Islam, but sold it and lost it in a war that Islam Started.

The Palestinians are trying to reclaim Israel, for Islam. So too are groups like La Raza trying to reclaim the American West, for Mexico. The correlation is there. Islamic Recruiters are exploiting it to recruit Mexicans. Remember, the “Dirty Bomber” was an Hispanic Moslem. I have some of these books here, recruitment manuals for Hispanics, distributed in America, in Spanish. Venezuela making friends in the Arab World is the tip of that iceberg. According to my projections, Hispanics will be a majority in America in about thirty years. Moslems will be the majority in about eighty. When do you suppose the cause for “Aztlan” will begin to include suicide bombers?

The reason the Arabs hate America is Isreal.. Osama used Isreal our one sided support of it, to the defferment of the palistions as his excuse, save it i,ve heard that tired excuse from alan pinkis, we did,t have a problem with them before Isreal, as Far as Mexico goes there taking over America anyways we hav 1/10 of mexico population in this country already and 3 milillion came across the border illegaly last year and more are comming everyday, as far as compareing them to whats going on in Isreal no mexican is alive when the united states took part of there land, can you say that about the palistinions, i don,t care if you kill each other your both semitic people, but you are going to bring terrorissm down on me and that i do care about.

The reason the Arabs hate America is Isreal.. Osama used Isreal our one sided support of it, to the defferment of the palistions as his excuse, save it i,ve heard that tired excuse from alan pinkis, we did,t have a problem with them before Isreal, as Far as Mexico goes there taking over America anyways we hav 1/10 of mexico population in this country already and 3 milillion came across the border illegaly last year and more are comming everyday, as far as compareing them to whats going on in Isreal no mexican is alive when the united states took part of there land, can you say that about the palistinions, i don,t care if you kill each other your both semitic people, but you are going to bring terrorissm down on me and that i do care about.


Very few “Palestinians” ever actually lived in Palestine until they fairly recently smuggled themselves in and squatted. This is a big part of why they are so young demographically.

Israel is fifty years old, admittedly American involvement in the region does not run quite that far back, but Israel had nothing to do with America propping up the Shah or Afghanistan. No, America stayed out of the “Israeli/Palestinian” conflict until Kennedy and did not really get involved until King Bush the First.

Iran was important to America, along with Afghanistan, as a front against the spread of Communism. The Shah, like the Saudis, was supposed to be a bulwark, a wealthy power that could stand for Capitalism. Unfortunately, Carter, a Communist if one ever presided in America, betrayed the Shah by demanding he sign an agreement, to sell oil to America for twenty years, at a fixed rate, not accounting for inflation. This is what brought down the Shah and allowed them to take tons of American hostages. Then, Carter agreed to give in to their demands, through Israel. He basically forced Israel to give the New Iranian government weapons by hinging the purchase of new American Weapons on their compliance. So, Israel was forced to arm one of its worst enemies, because of its ties to America and America is still hated by the Iranians, who also hate Israel.

Egypt went the same way. America is the big kid on the block, involved all over the middle east with Israel only a small part of it. Without Israel, they would hate America for anyone else America supports. Even Saudi Arabia. Maybe America might decide to protect the Serbs someday instead of bombing them. Maybe America will do business with India or Thailand or the Ivorians now that France has betrayed them. The point is, Islam is at war with everyone, bent on conquering everyone and focusing on Israel, that tiny little country as the point of contention, is a mistake.

You want to be an isolationist, sit at home while they conquer Spain and Serbia and all of Africa, you think they will never ge to you? They are already recruiting Mexicans. They will get to you and the only thing that can stop them, is Israel. Israel will destroy them, on your behalf, damnable ingrate.

I would never sit back while they take a white non semetic country, so you are saying you are fighting for the white race?, no no you do what your kind have done for thousands of years parasite off of other countrys, you hear the one about how copper wire was invented? two Jews fighting over the same penny. ;)

I would never sit back while they take a white non semetic country, so you are saying you are fighting for the white race?, no no you do what your kind have done for thousands of years parasite off of other countrys, you hear the one about how copper wire was invented? two Jews fighting over the same penny. ;)


Did you protect Lebanon? We did. The UN Condemned us but we did, until we eventually turned it over to America to lose. How about Serbia or Russia, are you protecting them? Your insults do not really matter to me, because I can see quite clearly why your culture is being destroyed. Sit on your keister and flap your gums while they walk all over you. They trample you and you, hate “us”?

Divest from us? You would not have that computer you type on if not for us. We designed it, we wrote its core programming, we discovered the underlying principles of physics that make it work and the telecommunications that bring it to the internet. You owe us everything and you betray us because you can not recognize your enemies.

Cane was asked about his brother and asked “Am I my brother’s keeper?”. The answer, overwhelming, was yes. Cane was the older brother, more knowledgeable of the world, more developed. It was his responsibility to look after and guide his brother. We will be a good brother to you and protect you from Islam.

But we can not protect you from yourself. Your civilization declines and your ideology and what part it shapes of the bigger Eurosocialist and American Isolationism, is the biggest part of why.

My country being destoyed i agree with you there, we have a president that will not enforce our borders calls people that try vigilanties,lets jobs get outsorced to cheap overseas labor, hell i,m unemployed now becuse the factory were i worked went to mexico, i was making 18hr as a mechinic, the one they replaced me with in mexico makes less then 5, there are no good paying jobs in my area i,ll be lucky to get 10 probley less,we hated the soviet union but embrace china there our friend right?but your people still brutalize the palistions, the south africans had the same apartited system you have and America came down on them like a ton of bricks,but we let your kind get away with it, so yes America is slipping we will be a conglumarated mud people in 100yrs, my friend wants to shoot mexicans i talked him out of it what good would it do all that would happen is he would be dead injail or on the run ask eric rudolf, and 3 more would show up for everyone he killed,so unless your guarding my border with mexico you are not protecting me its we who are protecting you, your country was sarced to death of saddom getting nuclear weapeons we took him out for you now our people die for isreal, and when iran gets them watch out to bad you can,t do to them what you did to iraq in 86, there smarter there better hidden but isreals lab dog the us goverment will probley try to take iran out for you but we don,t have the troops, and to be honest with you, i like JEWS less then OSAMA BIN LAUDEN does, becuse you systematicly deprive a whole group of people of life, liberty and the presuit of happiness.

I would never sit back while they take a white non semetic country, so you are saying you are fighting for the white race?, no no you do what your kind have done for thousands of years parasite off of other countrys, you hear the one about how copper wire was invented? two Jews fighting over the same penny. ;)

Yep, Jews had lots of time to parasite off the countries that unleashed pogroms and genocide...

My country being destoyed i agree with you there, we have a president that will not enforce our borders calls people that try vigilanties,lets jobs get outsorced to cheap overseas labor, hell i,m unemployed now becuse the factory were i worked went to mexico, i was making 18hr as a mechinic, the one they replaced me with in mexico makes less then 5, there are no good paying jobs in my area i,ll be lucky to get 10 probley less,we hated the soviet union but embrace china there our friend right?but your people still brutalize the palistions, the south africans had the same apartited system you have and America came down on them like a ton of bricks,but we let your kind get away with it, so yes America is slipping we will be a conglumarated mud people in 100yrs, my friend wants to shoot mexicans i talked him out of it what good would it do all that would happen is he would be dead injail or on the run ask eric rudolf, and 3 more would show up for everyone he killed,so unless your guarding my border with mexico you are not protecting me its we who are protecting you, your country was sarced to death of saddom getting nuclear weapeons we took him out for you now our people die for isreal, and when iran gets them watch out to bad you can,t do to them what you did to iraq in 86, there smarter there better hidden but isreals lab dog the us goverment will probley try to take iran out for you but we don,t have the troops, and to be honest with you, i like JEWS less then OSAMA BIN LAUDEN does, becuse you systematicly deprive a whole group of people of life, liberty and the presuit of happiness.


Israeli Arabs have more freedom, rights and better lives than they would in any Islamic country. They hate us anyway, because we are not an Islamic country and they hate you because you are not an Islamic Country, which is why they want to move to your country. So they can vote it out of existence and the Mexicans will help them. They do not care what color a Moslem is. Islam is a religion, not a race.

Iraq attacked Iran because Saddam is a Sunni and Iran is run by Shiites. Shiites are the last Islamic Sect. Iran got weapons from Israel, as Carter’s way of giving in to their terrorist demands. Bush did not want Iran to use these weapons against other Americans so he offered some help to Saddam. Saddam was not happy with the help he got however and demanded air support. America was not about to give him that so he blamed America for his failure. It did not help that Israel blew up his nuclear reactor. Iran has no gratitude for that favor either. So Saddam blamed America and attacked Kuwait, an American interest, just to drag America in to a personal war. Just as American interests in Iran were Cold War Anti-Soviet interests, Iraq was the same interest.

So America is not in conflict with Iran or Iraq because of Israel. Both countries have to do with the World War Two industrialization of Iran and its later consideration in Cold War Influence.

Israel, could easily destroy Iraq and Iran. Israel could not occupy them, but destroying them is far easier than rebuilding them. Even trying to rebuild them is frankly stupid. You can not force civilization on the Islamic World. I can not save you from yourself and America can not save Arabs from themselves.

If America does attack Iran, America has more than enough resources to destroy their chances at a nuclear program, America could even do it without eradicating the population. America could probably not occupy and rebuild them, but I doubt America would even care to do so. Israel however, would not have the luxury of being delicate about it. Israel has a thousand bunker busters purchased from the US and could easily put nuclear warheads in two hundred of them. Israel may have to use at least five nukes to insure Iran can not continue its programs. Israel would not be happy about it, but the UN’s limp wristed nebbish dhimmi may give them no choice.

It is a hard subject, very complicated. Very troubling.

You still whine on behalf of the so called “Palestinians”. Well you are frankly not informed enough on the subject to have any sort of intelligent debate. There are no Palestinians, there never were, the people claiming they are have no right to an inch of land and your reason for focusing on them is blatant Anti-Semitism. The Arabs cultivate it in you to distract you from their larger war, in which your eventual enslavement is an objective.

You want a job, join the Army, join the Navy, join the National Guard. I am sure they could all use mechanics. Fight the people who are attacking you and do something productive for your country instead of regurgitating Arab propaganda against its most loyal and helpful friend. Maybe they will even let you use one of those neat new Israeli Corner Shots.

When you are attacked, by an Army that outnumbers you six to one, you have a right to defend yourself. No Arab State ever agreed to the Green Line while it was still on the negotiating table. Now that they have no hope of ever taking Israel by force, they are employing it only as a misleading tool. An obfuscation. If they can press us back to the green line politically, Israel will only be a few miles wide in some places and they will be able to recover some of the logistic and tactical advantages they used to enjoy, in their war to exterminate us. This is why their new leader Abbas is talking about “All their land”.

There can not be a “Two State Solution”, even if Palestine was created, because there are dozens of Islamic States and will surely be dozens more as they work their way outward, pressing in to all of the other countries they are attacking.

I think jaws and arbas want pease and to country its the only way.

yes its okej to defend and ocupaid is not some thing.

I would never sit back while they take a white non semetic country, so you are saying you are fighting for the white race?, no no you do what your kind have done for thousands of years parasite off of other countrys, you hear the one about how copper wire was invented? two Jews fighting over the same penny. ;)

Yes, because all the countries that kicked out the Jews were better off (Spain was plunged in to a second dark age by it's dumbass pogroms). :rolleyes:

They are responsible for so much of the innovation of our modern world; computers and fiber optics wouldn't exist without the contributions of great Jewish thinkers.

Of course, the ignorant Nazi bastards needed someone to blame other than themselves for ruining their country and turned on the Jews and then murdered them in the holocaust. Thank God the Allies got rid of their regime and ended their murderous spree; unfortunately, the Nazis' fucking coward of a leader and his cronies killed themselves while hiding in bunkers before we could get too them.

Israeli Arabs have more freedom, rights and better lives than they would in any Islamic country. They hate us anyway, because we are not an Islamic country and they hate you because you are not an Islamic Country, which is why they want to move to your country. So they can vote it out of existence and the Mexicans will help them. They do not care what color a Moslem is. Islam is a religion, not a race.

Iraq attacked Iran because Saddam is a Sunni and Iran is run by Shiites. Shiites are the last Islamic Sect. Iran got weapons from Israel, as Carter’s way of giving in to their terrorist demands. Bush did not want Iran to use these weapons against other Americans so he offered some help to Saddam. Saddam was not happy with the help he got however and demanded air support. America was not about to give him that so he blamed America for his failure. It did not help that Israel blew up his nuclear reactor. Iran has no gratitude for that favor either. So Saddam blamed America and attacked Kuwait, an American interest, just to drag America in to a personal war. Just as American interests in Iran were Cold War Anti-Soviet interests, Iraq was the same interest.

So America is not in conflict with Iran or Iraq because of Israel. Both countries have to do with the World War Two industrialization of Iran and its later consideration in Cold War Influence.

Israel, could easily destroy Iraq and Iran. Israel could not occupy them, but destroying them is far easier than rebuilding them. Even trying to rebuild them is frankly stupid. You can not force civilization on the Islamic World. I can not save you from yourself and America can not save Arabs from themselves.

If America does attack Iran, America has more than enough resources to destroy their chances at a nuclear program, America could even do it without eradicating the population. America could probably not occupy and rebuild them, but I doubt America would even care to do so. Israel however, would not have the luxury of being delicate about it. Israel has a thousand bunker busters purchased from the US and could easily put nuclear warheads in two hundred of them. Israel may have to use at least five nukes to insure Iran can not continue its programs. Israel would not be happy about it, but the UN’s limp wristed nebbish dhimmi may give them no choice.

It is a hard subject, very complicated. Very troubling.

You still whine on behalf of the so called “Palestinians”. Well you are frankly not informed enough on the subject to have any sort of intelligent debate. There are no Palestinians, there never were, the people claiming they are have no right to an inch of land and your reason for focusing on them is blatant Anti-Semitism. The Arabs cultivate it in you to distract you from their larger war, in which your eventual enslavement is an objective.

You want a job, join the Army, join the Navy, join the National Guard. I am sure they could all use mechanics. Fight the people who are attacking you and do something productive for your country instead of regurgitating Arab propaganda against its most loyal and helpful friend. Maybe they will even let you use one of those neat new Israeli Corner Shots.I was in the military the navy i served on board U.S.S WOODROW WILSON 624 GOLD CREW, but i,ll never join the jewish controlled u.s. military again, well will see if the irans nuke you are not, and the only way you could attack iran is to go though iraq and as unpopular as the jewish controlled and american lead war is in america right now it will never happen, our politions cowtail to ya,ll but it would be political sucide for them, but wait a minate jews and iranians killing each othe :) its a win win situation for me, wheres the popcorn ;)

I was in the military the navy i served on board U.S.S WOODROW WILSON 624 GOLD CREW, but i,ll never join the jewish controlled u.s. military again, well will see if the irans nuke you are not, and the only way you could attack iran is to go though iraq and as unpopular as the jewish controlled and american lead war is in america right now it will never happen, our politions cowtail to ya,ll but it would be political sucide for them, but wait a minate jews and iranians killing each othe :) its a win win situation for me, wheres the popcorn ;)


Iran voted to continue their nuclear program by saying “Death to America”. A literal suicide for Americans might be letting the Arab World go Nuclear.

Israel can expect few casualties from actually attacking Iran. Syria of course would come in on Iran’s behalf and that might result in a few casualties, but such confrontations are inevitable. Israel would do well to strike Iran and Syria simultaneously.

You are not really worth talking to about this however as you clearly have no ethics or understanding of your place in the world.

My place in the world? not worthy talking to? becuse i won,t becume a jewish puppet, we went in iraq becuse of you people, they said he had weapeons of mass destuction were are they? you could never invade iran you would have to go though iraq which would tear apart the slim hope of rebulding it, the american people sheep that they are would never go for it, the politicions would be lynched there a big movement already to pull out, so i,d be very suprised if america would let your forces though, you better worry about the russians they have alot of nuclear weapeons and there economy is imploded, by the way how many u.s. saliors did your country kill when they attacked a u.s. warship? you are not are friends.

My place in the world? not worthy talking to? becuse i won,t becume a jewish puppet, we went in iraq becuse of you people, they said he had weapeons of mass destuction were are they? you could never invade iran you would have to go though iraq which would tear apart the slim hope of rebulding it, the american people sheep that they are would never go for it, the politicions would be lynched there a big movement already to pull out, so i,d be very suprised if america would let your forces though, you better worry about the russians they have alot of nuclear weapeons and there economy is imploded, by the way how many u.s. saliors did your country kill when they attacked a u.s. warship? you are not are friends.Jewish puppet? Got any evidence to back that up?

I disagree. Most Palestinians could have had peace dozens of times over the past half century. Most Palestinians rejected it. They elected a replacement leader for their previous Nazi Sympathizer with a new Nazi Sympathizer. He talks about “All their land”, he means “All the land”. Most Palestinians could have had peace back in Jordan or Syria or Egypt. They chose instead to be “Palestinians” so they chose war.

The best way to understand their religion is to read the Koran and look at Mohammed’s life. He declared war dozens of times in his life and instructed his followers to dominate the world, by whatever means are necessary. Reading the Koran it is quite clear that there is a correspondence between Peace and Submission. Only when all submit to Islam as the “Master Religion”, will that “Master Religion” allow Peace, but in the form of slavery.

This is true in Serbia, Ivory Coast, Russia, India, now Thailand, Everywhere.


I've seen polls stating that 70% Palastineans do not support terror attacks. 95% of Muslims in Brittian condemed the attacks. About 99.99% of Muslims worldwide aren't connected with terrorism. That .01% that are is a lot because there are so many Muslims.

Have you ever met a Muslim? Talked to one? I have met several. All of them hated the terrorists who gave are hijacking the Koran.

Yes I've heard the Koran mention what you've described but it has mentioned peace apart from slavery. Any holy book can be used to justify anything. Hitler could justify the Holocaust through the bible and Baruch Goldstein used the Torah to justify mass murder. Yet these were extreme interpratations, and are not the interpratations of most Christians or Jews or Muslims.

One religion or people isn't good or evil. Each has good and bad individuals. The important thing to do is to recognize this fact.

Yes i do, why does the 16th richest country recive 1/3 of all american aid not loans aid, why do we take there sides against the arabs to the point in 1973 we sent them military equipment(see the golda miere story) when they we getting crushed, and it caused opec to cut oil production which sent america into a recession, they are the biggest recipet of military equipment from the u.s, they attacked an american warship they said though mistaken identitie even though it was navy marked flying an americn flag nothing was done, why do they want us to pay billions for the resettlement of jewish settlers i know you heard about that it was all over the news, they have one of if not the biggest lobby in politics,my brother was in the military in 73 he was on a plane waiting to go to isreal to fight for them,and there a hundred more that i can,t think up right now.your own country saw though them tryed to make things right.

Yes i do, why does the 16th richest country recive 1/3 of all american aid not loans aid, why do we take there sides against the arabs to the point in 1973 we sent them military equipment(see the golda miere story) when they we getting crushed, and it caused opec to cut oil production which sent america into a recession, they are the biggest recipet of military equipment from the u.s, they attacked an american warship they said though mistaken identitie even though it was navy marked flying an americn flag nothing was done, why do they want us to pay billions for the resettlement of jewish settlers i know you heard about that it was all over the news, they have one of if not the biggest lobby in politics,my brother was in the military in 73 he was on a plane waiting to go to isreal to fight for them,and there a hundred more that i can,t think up right now.your own country saw though them tryed to make things right.

Do you have any sources to back any of this up?

Assuming all of this is true Israel was an important ally to the US in the Cold War. It was a counter balance to the Arab states in the Middle East that were all allied with the USSR. If Israel wasan't there and a war started Egypt would have seezed the Suez Cannal and destroy the Europeans and Americans ability to transport oil to Asia. My source: the Suez war which was fought to keep Europe in control of the Cannal. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_War)

And Israel defeated both Egypt and Syria with out any help even after they attacked with out warning on Yom Kippur the holiest day in Jewdism and the day Israel was most weak.

Well now we can watch as the tenaments are put up. Did the Palestinians ever build anything beautiful? I mean did they ever build anything? The arab Palestinians seem to be death worshippers. They only seek israeli land because the israelis made it beautiful. Now they seek to take what they didn't build. Palestinians did nothing with Gaza.

I thought that the conquerors got to keep the land if they wanted it. Wasn't the Gaza Strip taken during a defensive war?

By the way, I am Catholic. A true believer but not so good practitioner. I believe that the Palestinians can have redemption, however, not while they worship death and teach their children ungodly hatred.

The golda mirie story i watched it, the yearly budget, LOU DOBBS did a segment on sharon wanting us to pay for the relocation of settlers, and it was all over the news if you did,t see that you need to wartch the news alittle more by the way the cold wars been over for 14yrs whats the excuse now, MY BROTHER, and i doult you will not find anyone whos says that they don,t recive large amounts of military equipmnt next time you see isreal soldgers what rifles are they carrying for the most part m16, the history channel did a segment on the 73 war and said we sent large qunitys of military equipment,we say nothing about there abuse of the palisinions, plus they have 56 un resolutions against the way they act, they violated others human rights and cry about what happend to them in germany, i personaly don,t belive the so called holocost happend and even if it did they got what they deserverd.

Wasn't the Gaza Strip taken during a defensive war?

The '67 war was a preemtive strike by Israel do to a large Arab military build up near the border. I classify that as defensive since the Arabs probebly would have attacked with no warning first, but not everyone would agree. For more info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War.

Well now we can watch as the tenaments are put up. Did the Palestinians ever build anything beautiful? I mean did they ever build anything? The arab Palestinians seem to be death worshippers. They only seek israeli land because the israelis made it beautiful. Now they seek to take what they didn't build. Palestinians did nothing with Gaza.

I thought that the conquerors got to keep the land if they wanted it. Wasn't the Gaza Strip taken during a defensive war?

By the way, I am Catholic. A true believer but not so good practitioner. I believe that the Palestinians can have redemption, however, not while they worship death and teach their children ungodly hatred.And the jews don,t belive jesus is the son of god but yet they get a free pass, they get to go to heaven anyways, thats the main reason we support isreal religon, well hate to breack your bubble the catholic church killed allot of jews, and molasted alott of kids, and the preist can,t wash away your sins, and theres no pergotory

Let's stop the anti-semitism. If you want to call Jews names, make your own thread. Also, learn to spell and use proper grammar. If you're from a non-english nation and don't speak english well, try your best and see how it is spelled in other posts.

Let's stop the anti-semitism. If you want to call Jews names, make your own thread. Also, learn to spell and use proper grammar. If you're from a non-english nation and don't speak english well, try your best and see how it is spelled in other posts.

Amen.

Brief-ish rundown on the History of Jewish Israel (no biblical gaga):

1020 BCE-Saul
1000 BCE-David founds the Jewish Kingdom
950 BCE-First Temple Built
922 BCE-Israel splits into northern Israel and souther Judah
721 BCE-Assyrians end Israel
586 BCE-Babylonians end Judah
539 BCE-Persian king Cyrus the Great frees Jews to go back to Israel
516 BCE-Second Temple built
70 CE-Second Temple destroyed
700-1000-A new Jewish Kingdom(Khazar) was founded in the Caucasus, in modern Turkey
1948-Modern Israel formed

If today's Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Philistines. Fine, they can have an autonomous Gaza. No one else except Jews still exist who lived in Israel. The others died out. Israel is for the Jews and "Palestinians" should be kicked out or eliminated. After that, IMO, Israel should reclaim its rightful kingdom and retake Sinai, Lebanon, parts of Syria and Jordan. This is my opinion, although I'm sure some Israelis might agree deep down.

Well going by your logic the american indian should do the same in America becuse they have as much right to it as JEWS DO TO ISREAL.

If today's Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Philistines. Fine, they can have an autonomous Gaza. No one else except Jews still exist who lived in Israel. The others died out. Israel is for the Jews and "Palestinians" should be kicked out or eliminated. After that, IMO, Israel should reclaim its rightful kingdom and retake Sinai, Lebanon, parts of Syria and Jordan. This is my opinion, although I'm sure some Israelis might agree deep down.

I don't think borders can be decided like that. It could become a major humen rights violation for Israel to evict the current residences from all those places.

And even though their claim isn't as old as Jew's it is still important. Jerusalem is one of Islams holliest sites, and the rest of Israel/ Palastine is historicly and religiously important.

If it will end wide scale terrorism here is what I think should be Palastine's borders:

Gaza, the West Bank, an internationalized Jerusalem.

Of course, it remains to be seen if Gaza alone can be manadged and if terrorism will decrease.

I've seen polls stating that 70% Palastineans do not support terror attacks. 95% of Muslims in Brittian condemed the attacks. About 99.99% of Muslims worldwide aren't connected with terrorism. That .01% that are is a lot because there are so many Muslims.

Have you ever met a Muslim? Talked to one? I have met several. All of them hated the terrorists who gave are hijacking the Koran.

Yes I've heard the Koran mention what you've described but it has mentioned peace apart from slavery. Any holy book can be used to justify anything. Hitler could justify the Holocaust through the bible and Baruch Goldstein used the Torah to justify mass murder. Yet these were extreme interpratations, and are not the interpratations of most Christians or Jews or Muslims.

One religion or people isn't good or evil. Each has good and bad individuals. The important thing to do is to recognize this fact.


Yes I have known many Moslems and worked with many Moslems. I can muddle through Arabic or Turkish and have read several translations of the Koran, comparing them with the Arabic when doubtful. The Koran does not mention peace, except in the context of Submission, to “Allah”.

Now the Palestinians talk about demolishing of “Innocent Arab homes”. If you hide a bomb factory in your home, if you hide groups of terrorists in your home instead of turning them over to authorities, which in Palestinian cases are probably in on it, then you are an accomplice and if you did that in America, you would go to prison.

I have seen many different “Polls” of the opinions of Palestinians and they are all nonsense. If they wanted peace, they never would have even claimed to be “Palestinian”. In fact, to want “Peace” with infidels as a Moslem is a sin. “Take not the Christians and Jews for friends, for they are friends of each other”.

Our religion expects certain things from us, it expects us to support Israel and believe in God and the indestructibility of the Jewish People. Christians are expected to forgive and love try to lead others from sin and to salvation. Moslems are expected to conquer the world and become “The Master Religion”. This is a simple doctrinal matter and anyone who would choose to become a Moslem is no better than anyone who would choose to become a Nazi.

Pretty much every Moslem Charity finances terrorism. Pretty much every Moslem is expected to give to Moslem Charities. Those who are not actively blowing themselves up, are generally supporting those that are, if not directly, by making excuses for them or trying to equivocate their aggressions with our defenses. Islam would not be able to wage a simultaneous war on four continents against a dozen countries without a massive support for it.

This is not some tiny group of extremists. The moderate ones only moderately want to exterminate us.

http://www.thequran.com/images/islam-dominate.jpg

My place in the world? not worthy talking to? becuse i won,t becume a jewish puppet, we went in iraq becuse of you people, they said he had weapeons of mass destuction were are they? you could never invade iran you would have to go though iraq which would tear apart the slim hope of rebulding it, the american people sheep that they are would never go for it, the politicions would be lynched there a big movement already to pull out, so i,d be very suprised if america would let your forces though, you better worry about the russians they have alot of nuclear weapeons and there economy is imploded, by the way how many u.s. saliors did your country kill when they attacked a u.s. warship? you are not are friends.


For the most part, our Nuclear Arsenal was developed in order to achieve a balance with the Soviets. The Soviets were not like the Arabs, they did not accept the context of mutual annihilation. The Arabs practice mutual annihilation every day. We developed enough hardware to eradicate the Soviet Union, the Russians are not going to be stupid enough to attack Israel directly.

If Israel flies over Kurdish northern Iraq, America would not do anything. By the time the pilots and missiles are seen, it will be too late and America would not open fire on them anyway. They will probably do what they did when Israel bombed Iraq. Publicly condemn it then thank Israel under the table. Everyone wants Israel to bomb Iran, but no one will publicly say it.

I am only going to repeat this to you so many times before I publicly acknowledge that you are unable to learn. America is in Iraq because of American Interests. Kuwait was an American Interest. Iran was an American Interest. Afghanistan was an American Interest. Israel could not care less and if they wanted these countries gone, not even America could have stopped them.

As for that American ship, that is what happens when you quietly sail off course in to a war zone. It was a mistake, first they thought it was Egyptian, then they thought it was Soviet. Be more careful next time and be very careful about small boats, filled with explosives and Moslems. Didn’t you just lose a ship to that? I assure you, that was no case of mistaken identity.

Cane was asked about his brother and asked “Am I my brother’s keeper?”. The answer, overwhelming, was yes. Cane was the older brother, more knowledgeable of the world, more developed. It was his responsibility to look after and guide his brother. We will be a good brother to you and protect you from Islam.

What? Did I hear "Big Brother"? :p

Yes I have known many Moslems and worked with many Moslems. I can muddle through Arabic or Turkish and have read several translations of the Koran, comparing them with the Arabic when doubtful. The Koran does not mention peace, except in the context of Submission, to “Allah”.

Now the Palestinians talk about demolishing of “Innocent Arab homes”. If you hide a bomb factory in your home, if you hide groups of terrorists in your home instead of turning them over to authorities, which in Palestinian cases are probably in on it, then you are an accomplice and if you did that in America, you would go to prison.

I have seen many different “Polls” of the opinions of Palestinians and they are all nonsense. If they wanted peace, they never would have even claimed to be “Palestinian”. In fact, to want “Peace” with infidels as a Moslem is a sin. “Take not the Christians and Jews for friends, for they are friends of each other”.

Our religion expects certain things from us, it expects us to support Israel and believe in God and the indestructibility of the Jewish People. Christians are expected to forgive and love try to lead others from sin and to salvation. Moslems are expected to conquer the world and become “The Master Religion”. This is a simple doctrinal matter and anyone who would choose to become a Moslem is no better than anyone who would choose to become a Nazi.

Pretty much every Moslem Charity finances terrorism. Pretty much every Moslem is expected to give to Moslem Charities. Those who are not actively blowing themselves up, are generally supporting those that are, if not directly, by making excuses for them or trying to equivocate their aggressions with our defenses. Islam would not be able to wage a simultaneous war on four continents against a dozen countries without a massive support for it.

This is not some tiny group of extremists. The moderate ones only moderately want to exterminate us.

http://www.thequran.com/images/islam-dominate.jpg


The Koran has different interpratations. You might interpret it as "conquering the world", while a Muslim might interperet it as "spreading Allahs word."

In any case, Muslims have lived beside non-muslims as equals in the West for generations. The actions of a few British born Muslim terrorists no more reflects British born Muslims any more then Baruch Goldstein's murdereing of 29 praying Palastinean civilians represents American born Jewish Israelies.

Yes, some Muslim charities do finance terrorists but most don't. You wouldn't hear a news service saying "This just in: a Muslim charity does not support terror!"

The Palastineans have rejected peace in the past, but their new president (Who was freely and fairly elected) seems to want peace. Remember, 62% of Palastineans voted for Abbas not Hamas. Hamas hates the guy so much they boycotted the election. If they hate him he must be good.
(Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_presidential_election%2C_2005 if you don't believe me about the election.)

Our religion expects certain things from us, it expects us to support Israel and believe in God and the indestructibility of the Jewish People. Christians are expected to forgive and love try to lead others from sin and to salvation. Moslems are expected to conquer the world and become “The Master Religion”. This is a simple doctrinal matter and anyone who would choose to become a Moslem is no better than anyone who would choose to become a Nazi.
GROSS mischaracterizations of Judaism and Islam, and a bit better on Christianity. Just because I'm Jewish and support Israel (in terms of historical evidence; I think a two-state solution is the way to go) doesn't mean I'm going to give you a blank check to spread misinformation. More on this tommorow morning.

I don't think borders can be decided like that. It could become a major humen rights violation for Israel to evict the current residences from all those places.

And even though their claim isn't as old as Jew's it is still important. Jerusalem is one of Islams holliest sites, and the rest of Israel/ Palastine is historicly and religiously important.

If it will end wide scale terrorism here is what I think should be Palastine's borders:

Gaza, the West Bank, an internationalized Jerusalem.

Of course, it remains to be seen if Gaza alone can be manadged and if terrorism will decrease.


Israel would be perfectly content to stop at the River Jordan. The Kingdoms on the other side were lost, there are no known tribes to claim them. Even Lebanon would not be required, though it should be returned to the true Lebanese.

Syria, It is a puppet state, having conquered Assyrians and Kurds. Kurds deserve their own state in northern Iraq, Assyrians deserve their own state. Golan is Israeli. If there is anything left unclaimed, that can be Syrian.

I would further make the Sunni Triangle Sunnistan and turn over the Shiite areas to Iran after expropriating Kurdish territory for Kurdistan. Then if the Shiites do not dismantle their entire Nuclear and Biological Infrastructure, I could Nuke them without worrying about killing anyone who is innocent. Afterwards, maybe the Zoroastrians can finally come back from India and live in peace.

Jordan is fine, I have no problem with Jordan existing, but they better take back all of the west bank Palestinians when I ship them back over the border to their parents.

Gaza is part of Israel. It was mostly Jewish three hundred years ago according to a census by the Catholic Church. It is the first part of Israel that we came to after Sinai. For the moment, I am content to “Withdraw”, but only on the condition that it be sealed off from Israel. In a sense, a prison, nothing goes in and no one comes out. They want autonomy, well this is it. If they declare war by firing missiles over our walls, the missiles that come back just might eliminate the entire existing population. When you declare war, that is the sort of thing that happens.

Islam declared war against the world fourteen hundred years ago. It is about time the world declared war back.

GROSS mischaracterizations of Judaism and Islam, and a bit better on Christianity. Just because I'm Jewish and support Israel (in terms of historical evidence; I think a two-state solution is the way to go) doesn't mean I'm going to give you a blank check to spread misinformation. More on this tommorow morning.


I look forward to hearing it. Shema Yisrael.

Let's stop the anti-semitism. If you want to call Jews names, make your own thread. Also, learn to spell and use proper grammar. If you're from a non-english nation and don't speak english well, try your best and see how it is spelled in other posts.


He is from a Non-English speaking country. The American South. :^)>

Actually, Yeru does have a point. Rich Muslims have been building mosques all over Africa just to reassert their domination. These mosques are not occupied by even an imam. They are just there to show that Islam intends to take over its old territory. Not necessarily the whole world, but the old muslim world. They look down upon Africans as sub-humans(not all do). If they get their way, they might restart the slave trade if they could.

Do Bahrain and Qatar have any irks against Israel? I don't think so. They are swimming in money. They have no income tax thanks to oil. They're not poor like Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, Syria, and Iran. Sure the Saudis have oil, but the 15,000 princes have all the profits. the regular people don't have much.

Just a random fact: Iranian women are freer than Saudi women. They can vote, can uncover their face, and drive.

Yes i do, why does the 16th richest country recive 1/3 of all american aid not loans aid, why do we take there sides against the arabs to the point in 1973 we sent them military equipment(see the golda miere story) when they we getting crushed, and it caused opec to cut oil production which sent america into a recession, they are the biggest recipet of military equipment from the u.s, they attacked an american warship they said though mistaken identitie even though it was navy marked flying an americn flag nothing was done, why do they want us to pay billions for the resettlement of jewish settlers i know you heard about that it was all over the news, they have one of if not the biggest lobby in politics,my brother was in the military in 73 he was on a plane waiting to go to isreal to fight for them,and there a hundred more that i can,t think up right now.your own country saw though them tryed to make things right.


Israel is moving its people for others, so those others should be expected to be helpful. Israel has no reason to move anyone if it is not in their own interests. Israel pays for what it purchases and borrows, with interest, in order to buffer its economy. Alternatively, they could always do business with someone else and provide other countries with things like advanced missile technology, night vision, anti-aircraft and anti-missile technology, computer technology, biotech and whatever else America would prefer be sold to America.

Israel only took a few thousand casualties in the Yom Kippur War, even though the neglected a preemptive strike in favor of taking the high ground. They let the Arabs launch a “Surprise Attack” just so they would not be seen as aggressors. Fat lot of good it did them, so much for Golda.

America only came in to monitor the “Cease Fire”. Israel has no interest in becoming another Vietnam. There is an old joke, Israel offered to take over in Vietnam, but wanted thirty percent.

Syria, It is a puppet state, having conquered Assyrians and Kurds. Kurds deserve their own state in northern Iraq, Assyrians deserve their own state. Golan is Israeli. If there is anything left unclaimed, that can be Syrian.

I would further make the Sunni Triangle Sunnistan and turn over the Shiite areas to Iran after expropriating Kurdish territory for Kurdistan.
I agree. Iraq is a load of shit. Iran can have their Shia. Kurds can have their Kurdistan and the Sunnis can be Iraq or Sunnistan go with Jordan. This is how we can divide it properly:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/images/jan-june03/map_ethnic_iraq.gif

He is from a Non-English speaking country. The American South. :^)>Yes i,m from the American south, and its also known as the bible belt lots of isrealite supporters here,you may hate me as much as i hate you i doubt it,but if it was so easy to hit iran nuclear progrem then don,t talk about it do it, everytime i here of isrealis being blowed up i rejoyce ;) everytime i hear of your people during human rights abuses to the palastineans i rejoye less mudd people and a new bunch of marters seeking revenge, everytime i watch the history channel and they have programs on DACHU, AUSCHWITZ,ETC, i see the trains come in i see the people unload, then i see the smoke from the smokestack, then i think they knowed how to treat jews in those days, the only way you can threat them,i had a jew in my class his name was kalob i beat him so bad a nurse stoped and thought he had been in a car accident, i,m not going to post on this subject anymore, but remember america will awake one day and see you for who you really are evil incarnate, don,t you think its ironic my tax dollars help fund you ;)

Yeru my friend, I share your sentiments. However, I have a perfect solution for the unconquerable people of Israel and the Jewish master race everywhere!

We all know that those filthy arab muslims are sub human, right? After all, we can quite easily trace all the worlds problems to arab individuals or arab states, right? If a country goes to war, it's the arabs fault. If the milk is curdled, it's the arabs fault. If a countries economy is suffering after a recently lost war, it's because all the arabs are money grabbin....uh...I mean, welfare draining lay abouts! That's right!

So, why don't we gather all these animals up into concentration camps, confiscate their money (What little they have of it - they are poor, yet another sign of their inferiority as a race), and then gas them! Huzzzah! Problem solved!

And if anyone mentions anything about 'facism' and 'immoral ethnic cleanising', just call them Anti Semetic. After all, anyone who doesn't completely and 100% support the actions of all Jews everywhere is a Nazi, right?

If you want to be taken as an actual debater, learn to spell.

"Muslims are peaceful." "Only a few blow up buildings."
Explain to me why thousands of them were cheering around the world on 9/11. Giving out cake and candy. Please tell me why.

If you want to be taken as an actual debater, learn to spell.

"Muslims are peaceful." "Only a few blow up buildings."
Explain to me why thousands of them were cheering around the world on 9/11. Giving out cake and candy. Please tell me why.

Indeed. I remeber that fateful day, when the muslims of my local community jumped up and shouted in celebration. Of course, being the eurosocialist coward that I am, I could only stand and gape, in thrall of the Arabs who are clearly taking over the UK. After all - look at the amount of arabs in Parliament! It's shocking, Kilroy Silk is even the leader of a prominent political party, and he's browner than the lot of them!

The Koran has different interpratations. You might interpret it as "conquering the world", while a Muslim might interperet it as "spreading Allahs word."

In any case, Muslims have lived beside non-muslims as equals in the West for generations. The actions of a few British born Muslim terrorists no more reflects British born Muslims any more then Baruch Goldstein's murdereing of 29 praying Palastinean civilians represents American born Jewish Israelies.

Yes, some Muslim charities do finance terrorists but most don't. You wouldn't hear a news service saying "This just in: a Muslim charity does not support terror!"

The Palastineans have rejected peace in the past, but their new president (Who was freely and fairly elected) seems to want peace. Remember, 62% of Palastineans voted for Abbas not Hamas. Hamas hates the guy so much they boycotted the election. If they hate him he must be good.
(Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_presidential_election%2C_2005 if you don't believe me about the election.)


I do not see anything in the Torah or Tanach about killing Moslems in their Mosques. I do see in the Koran and other Mainstream Islamic Writings a lot of calls for my head and the head of every Jew; even if we hide behind talking trees. “The rocks and trees will say, O’ you who believe, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!” To be fair, they added “The thorn bush will be silent for it is the friend of the Jew”.

This is not a simple matter of interpretation. The Koran calls for Jihad and to fight until all Polytheists are dead and all Christians and Jews bow down to Allah and say things about Allah and our own Prophets and “Son of God” that only a Moslem would say. They instruct, that peace should only be made after we make offerings to them and subject ourselves to their rule. This is all very clear for anyone who has actually read it. It even says that you can not interpret it! It is supposedly the word of “Allah”, in “Allah’s” language and must even be pronounced in Mohammed Voice, which is why they teach their children to recite it before they learn to actually read Arabic.

I would further argue that most Islamic Charities do finance terrorism, though we may argue about whether one is a “Terrorist” or a “Freedom Fighter”, they virtually all finance someone who is murdering us infidels in “Allah’s” name.

I could not care less what “A few” Moslem “Extremists” do. I care about what all Moslems believe and they believe we should be exterminated, but to be fair they are instructed to wipe out the Polytheists first.

Note what I said, it is not just the bomber who is the problem. It is the Palestinian Authority that set their master bomb maker free, it is the tens of thousands of Palestinians who keep quiet about where their terrorists are, it is the terrorist’s entire family that hides them and helps them make their weapons and most importantly, their clerics who recite the Koran which instructs their followers to murder us.

Abbas is calling for “All” the land in exchange for peace, as well as free traffic in to and out of Israel as well as everywhere else. He has written in the past about his sympathies with the Nazis, he has been a terrorist for almost as long as that Smuggler Arafat himself. He is not interested in Peace, he is not moderate, he is not going to “Clamp down”, in fact he refuses to disarm Hamas and if he ever changed his tune he would only collect one bullet between the eyes.

Now it does not matter whether they are Arabs or The Pakistani Brits who blew themselves up in Israel or the German Converts who hijacked our aircraft and landed it in Abu Dada’s country, something the world community did nothing about forcing us to extract them from the heart of Islamic Africa ourselves, by force. Islam is the same religion, whether it is practiced by Illiterate Sufis or well educated Chechens. If they are practicing Moslems, they adhere to the Koran and that means putting all of their resources towards a global war to establish a single dominant and pervasive master religion.

A Moderate Moslem is like a Moderate Nazi, in fact they are on the same page of most issues.

I wish Jewish people had never migrated en masse to Palestine in the 1950's. Why oh why did you guys put yourselves in a position so vulnerable to another holocaust?? The one thing that would have fulfilled Hitler's dreams would have been if most of the world's jews had been concentrated on a thin little strip of land with no friends nearby. In fact the Nazis would have succeeded if the Jewish people hadn't undergone a diaspora.

And now you've surrounded yourselves on three sides by countries you've pissed off, with the ocean on the fourth side. That's not smart at all. It can only end badly.

*yawn*

Got way off the real topic haven't we?

Ok, basically Israel has three long term choices when it comes to the Palestinians. Firstly it can wipe them out. Secondly it can absorb them. Thirdly it can give them their own country.

Option Number One... well if you believe this is a good idea, please go outside and shot yourself.

Option Number Two... not acceptable to the Israelis, since they want to remain a Jewish state and the Palestinians will soon outnumber them. It'd also hurt a lot. Palestinians probably aint too keen on it either.

Option Number Three... by process of elimination, the only real option. Give the Palestinians their own state, try to make sure it doesn't fail. Palestinians with their own state and jobs and something to lose are going to be less likely to risk their own necks to kill Israeli's. The hardliners will keep on trying, but their support will dry up.

Option Number Not-Really-An-Option... keep things as they are now. Status Quo continues, but Israeli's are going to have increasingly well coordinated terrorist strikes launched at them. Palestinians keep dying in droves, and stay unemployed and angry. No one wins.

I like Option Number Three.

Yeru my friend, I share your sentiments. However, I have a perfect solution for the unconquerable people of Israel and the Jewish master race everywhere!

We all know that those filthy arab muslims are sub human, right? After all, we can quite easily trace all the worlds problems to arab individuals or arab states, right? If a country goes to war, it's the arabs fault. If the milk is curdled, it's the arabs fault. If a countries economy is suffering after a recently lost war, it's because all the arabs are money grabbin....uh...I mean, welfare draining lay abouts! That's right!

So, why don't we gather all these animals up into concentration camps, confiscate their money (What little they have of it - they are poor, yet another sign of their inferiority as a race), and then gas them! Huzzzah! Problem solved!

And if anyone mentions anything about 'facism' and 'immoral ethnic cleanising', just call them Anti Semetic. After all, anyone who doesn't completely and 100% support the actions of all Jews everywhere is a Nazi, right?


Do not joke with me. I know we are famous for our sense of humor but mine is particularly sardonic.

Nazis wanted to eradicate or conquer everyone else, for this reason it was justified to eradicate Nazism. Islam feels the same way, therefore Islam is subject to the same sort of opposition. I think it will be adequate to just eradicate their industrial centers and the symbols of their conquest. Remove the Dome of the Rock, Liberate the Kurds, Reduce most Iranian Cities to Glass and Return the three conquered Hindu Temples to their rightful owners, Arm Africans so they can defend themselves, stop opposing the Serbian right to self defense, let the Russians take care of themselves and build a lot of walls to keep the Moslems from invading their neighbors and we should be able to contain them all without exterminating them just fine. They will be happier as desert nomads anyway.

I wish Jewish people had never migrated en masse to Palestine in the 1950's. Why oh why did you guys put yourselves in a position so vulnerable to another holocaust?? The one thing that would have fulfilled Hitler's dreams would have been if most of the world's jews had been concentrated on a thin little strip of land with no friends nearby. In fact the Nazis would have succeeded if the Jewish people hadn't undergone a diaspora.

And now you've surrounded yourselves on three sides by countries you've pissed off, with the ocean on the fourth side. That's not smart at all. It can only end badly.


More than a million Jews came to America first, they were turned away in New York. One ship was even turned away in New York, then Cuba, then went back to France where everyone in it was immediately turned back over to the Nazis.

We have a right to Israel, we paid for it, we built it, it is ours and frankly, there was no one else there. Yes we are surrounded by bloodthirsty Arabs, but we have them pouring in around us if we were in Russia or Africa as well. Even America has people like this Nazi in it. If America would not support Israel for thirty years, if America turned a blind eye to Europe until Japan bombed America, how can we trust America with our survival?

We must depend on ourselves. Ourselves is all we can really depend on. We can manage, we have the technology. Not even the Soviet Union could have survived an open war with us. These backwards camel riders sure as hell won’t succeed.

Yeru... well lets see, where to begin...

Firstly, I am tempted to say your an anti-semitic pretending to be pro-Israeli. However, I dont think that anyone is quite dedicated enough to do that. Therefore I would suggest you read my post above your own and take note.

You are aware that your proposal is IDENTICAL to the Nazi policy and practice regarding Jews pre-Wannasee Conference?

EDIT: That post made me suspect more and more that you are infact an anti-semitic

*yawn*

Got way off the real topic haven't we?

Ok, basically Israel has three long term choices when it comes to the Palestinians. Firstly it can wipe them out. Secondly it can absorb them. Thirdly it can give them their own country.

Option Number One... well if you believe this is a good idea, please go outside and shot yourself.

Option Number Two... not acceptable to the Israelis, since they want to remain a Jewish state and the Palestinians will soon outnumber them. It'd also hurt a lot. Palestinians probably aint too keen on it either.

Option Number Three... by process of elimination, the only real option. Give the Palestinians their own state, try to make sure it doesn't fail. Palestinians with their own state and jobs and something to lose are going to be less likely to risk their own necks to kill Israeli's. The hardliners will keep on trying, but their support will dry up.

Option Number Not-Really-An-Option... keep things as they are now. Status Quo continues, but Israeli's are going to have increasingly well coordinated terrorist strikes launched at them. Palestinians keep dying in droves, and stay unemployed and angry. No one wins.

I like Option Number Three.


So give them their own state in Texas. They rejected every possible map that had Israel on it for fifty years. They rejected maps with Israel divided, only a few small cities, giving the Palestinians Jerusalem, they rejected everything and they reject everything now, including the option of having Gaza and most of the West Bank. They demand contiguous land masses, because they squatted on opposite sides of Israel and that would cut Israel in half. The divided option is off the table, permanently and so is any possibility of Palestine becoming yet another Islamic State.

There will never be peace with Palestinians, there will never be peace between India and Kashmir. There will never be peace between Russia and Chechnya. There will never be peace in Thailand. There will never be peace in Serbia. There will never be peace in Ivory, there will never be “Peace” in Sudan. There will never be peace anywhere Islam has set foot and that now Includes Europe.

Yeru... well lets see, where to begin...

Firstly, I am tempted to say your an anti-semitic pretending to be pro-Israeli. However, I dont think that anyone is quite dedicated enough to do that. Therefore I would suggest you read my post above your own and take note.

You are aware that your proposal is IDENTICAL to the Nazi policy and practice regarding Jews pre-Wannasee Conference?

EDIT: That post made me suspect more and more that you are infact an anti-semitic


No, my solution is not the same as The Nazis. If anyone is acting like Nazis, it is the Palestinians sticking “The Protocols” on their web page. It is the Islamic Television in France accusing Jews of putting Blood in Matzo and stealing children’s eyes. It is Iran, outlawing liberal politicians or Saudi Arabia screening books. It is Turkey where Mein Kampf is the best selling book behind the Koran. Want pictures of Arabs giving the nazi Salute, they are damned easy to find. They even dress like the Ku Klux Klan.

I suggest that the world defend itself against a militant, rapidly expanding, ideologically motivated and genocidal force, a force fighting a war on many fronts.

Here, this web page has lots of pictures.


http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/bosnia.html

Hmm? Who says they the PLA has to agree to the division. I dont believe they had any say on the West Bank pullout. As for Palestine becoming 'another Islamic state', how many Islamic states are there at present? Iran... I cant think of any others. Egypt, Syria and Jordan are secular.

Sudan? Yeah, the average Muslim has a HUGE say in what his government does in Sudan. Chechneya? Got a tricky one there, but the dispute isn't about Islam. Thailand? Storm in a teacup, sooner or later the Thai government will do a deal like Indonesia has with it's Aceh rebels. Serbia? The Serbians STARTED that little flare up. And it seems to have been reasonably peaceful for the last few years.

EDIT:
Oh, and a religion of 1 billion people is going to have some nutters. Islam has more, for various reasons. They need to be dealt with (by western standards, I'm authoritarian when it comes to terrorism). But at the same time, short of genocide, we aren't going to stop Muslim extremism through purely military action.

More than a million Jews came to America first, they were turned away in New York. One ship was even turned away in New York, then Cuba, then went back to France where everyone in it was immediately turned back over to the Nazis.

We have a right to Israel, we paid for it, we built it, it is ours and frankly, there was no one else there. Yes we are surrounded by bloodthirsty Arabs, but we have them pouring in around us if we were in Russia or Africa as well. Even America has people like this Nazi in it. If America would not support Israel for thirty years, if America turned a blind eye to Europe until Japan bombed America, how can we trust America with our survival?

We must depend on ourselves. Ourselves is all we can really depend on. We can manage, we have the technology. Not even the Soviet Union could have survived an open war with us. These backwards camel riders sure as hell won’t succeed.


The US paid for Israel, and we still do. If we stopped giving you $4 billion/year in welfare you'd be screwed. And seeing as though peak oil is right around the corner, the US economy might not be in good enough shape for us to be still giving you money ten years from now.

Which brings me back to my original point. The future looks very grim for Israel. When oil shortages force America to cut funding for you, the price of oil will still be sky high and your neighbors will still be rolling in dough. Unfortunately those are the same neighbors who hate you. Thus they will be stronger and you weaker.

Now is the time to make friends. This is definitely not the time for aloofness. USSR would have charred even square millimeter of Israeli soil before the klaxons even went off. Don't even pretend.



PS. watch the slurs (camel riders). Mods have been know to prowl the forums even at this hour of night.

Hmm? Who says they the PLA has to agree to the division. I dont believe they had any say on the West Bank pullout. As for Palestine becoming 'another Islamic state', how many Islamic states are there at present? Iran... I cant think of any others. Egypt, Syria and Jordan are secular.

Sudan? Yeah, the average Muslim has a HUGE say in what his government does in Sudan. Chechneya? Got a tricky one there, but the dispute isn't about Islam. Thailand? Storm in a teacup, sooner or later the Thai government will do a deal like Indonesia has with it's Aceh rebels. Serbia? The Serbians STARTED that little flare up. And it seems to have been reasonably peaceful for the last few years.

EDIT:
Oh, and a religion of 1 billion people is going to have some nutters. Islam has more, for various reasons. They need to be dealt with (by western standards, I'm authoritarian when it comes to terrorism). But at the same time, short of genocide, we aren't going to stop Muslim extremism through purely military action.


You have some weird ideas about what defines “Secular”. You make a lot of excuses for these people.

You think Chechnya is not about religion, then in whose name did those children die? Those Arabs traveled a long way to hit that school.

There is a tower of Christian Skulls reminding Serbia of what happened when Moslems first came to that region. They said they were acting against Terrorists, I see no reason to doubt them. I see a lot of reasons to doubt the accusations against them, especially after all these years of prosecution have proven some sixteen total executions with no certainty as to the executed individuals innocence. We sent some peacekeepers in, they have protect the Arabs, who once allied themselves to the nazis, pretty well, but they have not protect the Serbs. Some Jordanian Peacekeepers also did a nice job of murdering three American Female Peacekeepers.

America sent people to Indonesia to help with their floods. They were threatened with death if they left their camps by local Moslems. Indonesia is itself a major problem, mostly for Australia.

You call this peace, you call the fruits of treachery peace. You must call Lebanon, what was a Christian Country before they were all massacred Peace. You call a desert peace, just like the Romans.

You call extremism the enemy. Would you have called only Nazi Extremism the enemy? I think you would and I think a country full of you would have been the next Vichy government.

The US paid for Israel, and we still do. If we stopped giving you $4 billion/year in welfare you'd be screwed. And seeing as though peak oil is right around the corner, the US economy might not be in good enough shape for us to be still giving you money ten years from now.

Which brings me back to my original point. The future looks very grim for Israel. When oil shortages force America to cut funding for you, the price of oil will still be sky high and your neighbors will still be rolling in dough. Unfortunately those are the same neighbors who hate you. Thus they will be stronger and you weaker.

Now is the time to make friends. This is definitely not the time for aloofness. USSR would have charred even square millimeter of Israeli soil before the klaxons even went off. Don't even pretend.



PS. watch the slurs (camel riders). Mods have been know to prowl the forums even at this hour of night.


I don’t see the Mods picking off the Nazis and I am far more rational than they are. The Soviets might have “Won” if you can call destroying Israel “Winning” but I doubt they would have felt like winners after Fifty Jerichos dropped Nukes on their largest cities. Israel can not absorb nukes, but she can sure as hell deal them out if that is what it comes to.

American “Aid” is mostly loans. People who do not understand economics often mistake this, do not be one of those people. Syria may get Iran to beg and plead the Russians to get out of its debts, but Israel has perfect credit and more than enough resources to cover it, be it Diamonds or Intel or Windows or Missile Technology or Biotech.

You are obviously looking to capitulate to the Arabs. Their money lasts as long as their oil. I think that is about twenty years. I would be more than happy to wait it out, after destroying their nuclear capability. I would be more than happy to not care in the least when they take over Europe as well.

We will always have our technology. We will sell it to whomever we have to in order to insure our well being. If America is wise, America will be on our side when the chips are down. If you think giving in to Islam will bring you peace, that peace will be in your grave alone. Hope it is not like the poor souls staring down from their eyeless sockets cemented forever in to the foundations of Chele Kula. A monument to Islamic Tolerance if ever there was one.


http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/users/lpv/YU/Images/NI_chelekula.gif

"Muslims are peaceful." "Only a few blow up buildings."
Explain to me why thousands of them were cheering around the world on 9/11. Giving out cake and candy. Please tell me why.

Lets see... there are about 9 Million Muslims world wide...

If about .01% of them stand up and cheer on 9/11 thats about 9 Million of them. Thats a huge number of people but not a huge number of Muslims.

What I'm trying to say is many Muslims did support terrorism then and now but many don't. I've met several and they clearly didn't.

Lets see... there are about 9 Million Muslims world wide...

If about .01% of them stand up and cheer on 9/11 thats about 9 Million of them. Thats a huge number of people but not a huge number of Muslims.

What I'm trying to say is many Muslims did support terrorism then and now but many don't. I've met several and they clearly didn't.


They enjoy popular support. They are not called “The Popular Front” for nothing.

Most Moslems who are critical of terrorism, that is the few that are, oppose it on the grounds that they do not think it will effectively achieve their objective, which is not different than the terrorists. In other words, their goal is the same, global Islam one country at a time, but they think there are better ways to get there.

They also tend to argue about who is a terrorist and who is a freedom fighter. They may agree that Bin Ladin was a terrorist if they are in America for example, but are more than happy to let Hamas and Hizbullah murder Jews and Chechens murder Russians and they avoid talking about Kashmir or Ivory Coast or Darfur, especially Darfur as that would cost them a lot of Black Support in America. Imagine the Nation of Islam, if they knew that Arabs were still taking slaves in Africa.

No, most Moslems support the words of the Koran and those words call for war, permanent war, forever. Terrorism, is just a tactic. If they had the strength to fight us directly, they would use different tactics, but the goal is always the same.

What I'm trying to say is many Muslims did support terrorism then and now but many don't. I've met several and they clearly didn't.
Well put, it is as simple as that, just like many Jews are (state) terrorists regarding the people living in the territories that are illegaly occupied. But not all Jews are die hard rightwing extremists, specially not the ones living in Europe or the other half of the Israeli population in Israek itself, but they have higher percentages of extremists amongst Israelis then amongst muslims, that is just a simple fact, wether they like it or not.

They enjoy popular support. They are not called “The Popular Front” for nothing.

Most Moslems who are critical of terrorism, that is the few that are, oppose it on the grounds that they do not think it will effectively achieve their objective, which is not different than the terrorists. In other words, their goal is the same, global Islam one country at a time, but they think there are better ways to get there.

They also tend to argue about who is a terrorist and who is a freedom fighter. They may agree that Bin Ladin was a terrorist if they are in America for example, but are more than happy to let Hamas and Hizbullah murder Jews and Chechens murder Russians and they avoid talking about Kashmir or Ivory Coast or Darfur, especially Darfur as that would cost them a lot of Black Support in America. Imagine the Nation of Islam, if they knew that Arabs were still taking slaves in Africa.

No, most Moslems support the words of the Koran and those words call for war, permanent war, forever. Terrorism, is just a tactic. If they had the strength to fight us directly, they would use different tactics, but the goal is always the same.


Actually many Muslim leaders are issuing Fatwas against what they call religious extremism. Religious extremism is what they would call 9/11 or 7/7.

And what if every Muslim was as you described. What would you propose we do? Ship then off to Antartica? :rolleyes:

By your conclusion that all Muslims support terrorism about half of Israel supports Jewish extremism. That half uses the Torah to justify why Jews can be in Gaza and no one else, while the extremists decide to take it further and kill random Palestinian civilians. But we both know that few Jews in Israel support terrorism, but as Velo pointed out, the percentage of extremist Jews is higher then Israel then any where else.

Well put, it is as simple as that, just like many Jews are (state) terrorists regarding the people living in the territories that are illegaly occupied. But not all Jews are die hard rightwing extremists, specially not the ones living in Europe or the other half of the Israeli population in Israek itself, but they have higher percentages of extremists amongst Israelis then amongst muslims, that is just a simple fact, wether they like it or not.


Israel has a right to defend itself. If you would deny them that, I would be more than happy to deny you that right and dance on your grave.

Israel has a right to defend itself. If you would deny them that, I would be more than happy to deny you that right and dance on your grave.

I wouldn't define defence as shooting four unarmed civilians in cold blood.

But then again, that action was carried out by a Jewish terrorist, not the military.

Actually many Muslim leaders are issuing Fatwas against what they call religious extremism. Religious extremism is what they would call 9/11 or 7/7.

And what if every Muslim was as you described. What would you propose we do? Ship then off to Antartica? :rolleyes:

By your conclusion that all Muslims support terrorism about half of Israel supports Jewish extremism. That half uses the Torah to justify why Jews can be in Gaza and no one else, while the extremists decide to take it further and kill random Palestinian civilians. But we both know that few Jews in Israel support terrorism, but as Velo pointed out, the percentage of extremist Jews is higher then Israel then any where else.


It does not matter what they issue “Fatwas” against. Their religion doctrinally supports global genocide and conquest and whatever brain candy they feed soft headed English speakers is irrelevant.

Islamic and Nazi “Extremists” are the ones you hear most about, but “Moderate” Nazis and Moslems are themselves “Moderate” problems. “Extremists” are just the ones most motivated in acting on their religion or ideology. That religion and ideology is the same, regardless of what they say about its practice.

I would not suggest Antarctica, but I would suggest an honest world response to an aggressive and rapidly expanding, genocidal ideology, waging a simultaneous war on three or even four continents against everyone from Russian School Children to innocent African Villagers. Perhaps some sense can be beaten in to them, perhaps they like the Japanese can be convinced to abandon their genocidal and ultimately suicidal ways, by a sufficient show of force. At the very least, if we cripple their weapons programs before they have the ability to practice suicide bombing on a nuclear scale, we can contain them in the deserts they have already made for themselves and stop that from spreading.

I am only going to repeat this so many times before I write you off as oblivious. Judaism does not have an expansionist edict. Its borders are well defined in the Torah as being between that river and that sea. Islam doctrinally mandates global expansion and world domination. There is no equivocation between the Israelis, who would like to be allowed their tiny little country in Peace and the Arabs who travel from Pakistan to Chechnya to gun down a Russian School in the name of yet another “Ancient Homeland since time Immemorial” and the next day may be taking slaves in South Africa under the same name.

I wouldn't define defence as shooting four unarmed civilians in cold blood.

But then again, that action was carried out by a Jewish terrorist, not the military.


It was a violation of the Torah because defending Israel is the responsibility of the Israeli Military and he jeopardized us all by giving morons an excuse to equivocate Israeli Defense with Islamic Expansionism. If however he cut off their heads and finger tips then married their wives it would be in compliance with the Koran and make him a Moslem. Of course he can only have four wives even in this fashion according to Sharia.

It does not matter what they issue “Fatwas” against. Their religion doctrinally supports global genocide and conquest and whatever brain candy they feed soft headed English speakers is irrelevant.

Islamic and Nazi “Extremists” are the ones you hear most about, but “Moderate” Nazis and Moslems are themselves “Moderate” problems. “Extremists” are just the ones most motivated in acting on their religion or ideology. That religion and ideology is the same, regardless of what they say about its practice.

I would not suggest Antarctica, but I would suggest an honest world response to an aggressive and rapidly expanding, genocidal ideology, waging a simultaneous war on three or even four continents against everyone from Russian School Children to innocent African Villagers. Perhaps some sense can be beaten in to them, perhaps they like the Japanese can be convinced to abandon their genocidal and ultimately suicidal ways, by a sufficient show of force. At the very least, if we cripple their weapons programs before they have the ability to practice suicide bombing on a nuclear scale, we can contain them in the deserts they have already made for themselves and stop that from spreading.

I am only going to repeat this so many times before I write you off as oblivious. Judaism does not have an expansionist edict. Its borders are well defined in the Torah as being between that river and that sea. Islam doctrinally mandates global expansion and world domination. There is no equivocation between the Israelis, who would like to be allowed their tiny little country in Peace and the Arabs who travel from Pakistan to Chechnya to gun down a Russian School in the name of yet another “Ancient Homeland since time Immemorial” and the next day may be taking slaves in South Africa under the same name.


Your right, Judaism isn't expansionist. Yet Israel's borders in the current world can't be realisticly achived. And many horrible things Jews have done in the past has been justified through the Torah.

And most Muslims rely on Fatwas and historical changes as much as the Quran. Just because it says something doesen't mean it is the absolute law: religious figures through out history have made decisions that change Muslims attitudes toward things.

However, new movements often spring up saying "Lets ignore 1,400 years of history and go back to just what the Quran says." Osama bin Laden belongs to one of these movements, as do other terrorists/ dictators. Belonging to the movement still makes you a Sunni or Shiites but not necessarily the same as others.

Edit: The movement bin Laden is a part of is known as Qutbism. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutbee#Bin_Laden_the_Qutbee.3F)

It was a violation of the Torah because defending Israel is the responsibility of the Israeli Military and he jeopardized us all by giving morons an excuse to equivocate Israeli Defense with Islamic Expansionism. If however he cut off their heads and finger tips then married their wives it would be in compliance with the Koran and make him a Moslem. Of course he can only have four wives even in this fashion according to Sharia.

Are your saying if it had been done through official military channals but it had the same result and it turned out those civilians weren't a threat it would have been fine?

Your right, Judaism isn't expansionist. Yet Israel's borders in the current world can't be realisticly achived. And many horrible things Jews have done in the past has been justified through the Torah.

And most Muslims rely on Fatwas and historical changes as much as the Quran. Just because it says something doesen't mean it is the absolute law: religious figures through out history have made decisions that change Muslims attitudes toward things.

However, new movements often spring up saying "Lets ignore 1,400 years of history and go back to just what the Quran says." Osama bin Laden belongs to one of these movements, as do other terrorists/ dictators. Belonging to the movement still makes you a Sunni or Shiites but not necessarily the same as others.

Edit: The movement bin Laden is a part of is known as Qutbism. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutbee#Bin_Laden_the_Qutbee.3F)


Are your saying if it had been done through official military channals but it had the same result and it turned out those civilians weren't a threat it would have been fine?




Before you start regurgitating the blood libel in an effort to demonstrate “Horrible Things” I would have to suggest you improve your background on the subject. Israel’s Borders “Should” be realistically achieved but I will acknowledge the political challenge in forcing anything right or rational on world opinion, especially with a billion Moslems ruling dozens of countries consistently voting for genocide against Israel.

You acknowledge the Koran’s position regarding global domination, good. Maybe you read it finally. Read it more carefully now and compare it to these “Decisions”. The Ottoman used the Koran as an excuse to conquer everything up to Spain, when France and Germany united against them and pressed them back, when the Pope finally managed to convince Europe that defending itself was not unchristian and a Crusade became apparent, they stopped. Was this because of a re-evaluation of the Koran and some peace loving Turks Fatwa?

No, they were operating well within the guidelines of the Koran. When they are obviously going to lose, they are instructed to accept any offered peace, but continue their war by other less direct means. This is exactly what they did when it became obvious their expansion could not continue. This is what they do when America storms them and this is why Palestinians now claim that they will stop if the “Green Line” is recognized, after half a century of rejecting it.

We have a saying, “We won the war but we are losing the peace”. If we refuse to fight them directly, they will continue to murder us quietly. No one says anything about what they are doing in Darfur or Ivory or Thailand or Serbia or Russia or India; in fact you might make excuses for their murders of Serbs just as you do their murders of Jews. Why this dichotomy?

Israeli Arabs are a threat, a deliberate demographic threat. What Islamic Country would allow a Million Jews to move there? Even Turkey which took in so many Sephardim for economic rewards could never be so bribed. These Arabs are Israeli and enjoy Israeli benefits, but they do not like Israel and in many cases, do not recognize Israel’s right to exist. Some of them do, then again some of them are Bad Moslems or Christians. I love bad Moslems. Nothing pleases me more than a Moslem who rejects his religion for a more reasonable course of action.

Many Israeli Arabs were people who moved in alongside early Zionists. A few have even been around since Turkish Rule. Unlike most Palestinians, they have a valid claim. They are still a threat however, so if anyone has a reason to be “Palestinian”, it is Israeli Arabs. I might consider drawing some borders for Palestine with Israeli Arabs in them, they could be an autonomous country and like any autonomous country, held accountable for their actions. As long as they are happy to stay on their side of the wall, everything would be happy, but if they start firing missiles over the wall or smuggling bombers through, that would be an act of war.

I doubt they would accept this however. They are happy being an integrated part of Israel, helpers for the outside Arabs who want to invade and blow themselves up in cafes, takers of state benefits and voters for Islamism. They are the “One State Solution” which is ultimately a “No State Solution” and then a “Final Solution”.

There is a word for any Jew who would side with such enemies, “Zondercommando”.

I couldn't find a recent thread for this, so here is my own. What is your opinion on Israel's alleged occupation of Palestinian land? The Gaza withdrawl? A potential West Bank withdrawl? ...Please keep it calm, mainly just your opinion. Also state your religion.

It's not "alleged occupation" it's a fact. And the two state solution makes the most sense. It also makes the most sense to give the Palestinians back their land, in both Gaza and The West Bank. Then Israel can hold the high ground and have done all they can to make the peace, then it's up to the Palestinians to get their fundi's under control and maybe, just maybe, there can be peace.

I'm an atheist.

Do not joke with me. I know we are famous for our sense of humor but mine is particularly sardonic.

Nazis wanted to eradicate or conquer everyone else, for this reason it was justified to eradicate Nazism. Islam feels the same way, therefore Islam is subject to the same sort of opposition. I think it will be adequate to just eradicate their industrial centers and the symbols of their conquest. Remove the Dome of the Rock, Liberate the Kurds, Reduce most Iranian Cities to Glass and Return the three conquered Hindu Temples to their rightful owners, Arm Africans so they can defend themselves, stop opposing the Serbian right to self defense, let the Russians take care of themselves and build a lot of walls to keep the Moslems from invading their neighbors and we should be able to contain them all without exterminating them just fine. They will be happier as desert nomads anyway.

I like your ideas. They put the DotR on our temple! :'(

It's not "alleged occupation" it's a fact. And the two state solution makes the most sense. It also makes the most sense to give the Palestinians back their land, in both Gaza and The West Bank. Then Israel can hold the high ground and have done all they can to make the peace, then it's up to the Palestinians to get their fundi's under control and maybe, just maybe, there can be peace.

I'm an atheist.


It is easy for you to sway that Israel should give up half of its hundred mile wide strip of land, a line which would make in some places only a few miles thick. Maybe if you lived in one of the other dozens of “Ancient Homelands since time immemorial” and understood that their goal was to kill you, your family and in fact your entire people, maybe then you would comprehend the situation.

The Palestinians are not from Palestine. Most of them are Jordanian and most of their leaders have been Egyptian. Islam has plenty of countries, commits genocide on a regular basis, is surrounding itself with a sea of blood, Hindu Blood, Christian Blood and Jewish Blood and mark my words “Atheist”, your blood will spill even easier at their hands.

withdrawal is a good idea. Its an economic drain for one thing and its not part of Israels biblical homeland. The fundamentalist jews and arabs make life very difficult in Israel. Im an atheist.

[QUOTE=Yeru Shalayim]It is easy for you to sway that Israel should give up half of (1)its hundred mile wide strip of land, a line which would make in some places only a few miles thick.

2.
The Palestinians are not from Palestine. [QUOTE]

1. Thats the whole bloody point- it's NOT YOURS to begin with!!

2. Thats the crux of your argument??

Newsflash..... wait for it..... wait... for... it:


Israelis/Jews ain't from Israel originally either!!!!!!!


....and round and round we go..... and round and round we go..... :rolleyes:

withdrawal is a good idea. Its an economic drain for one thing and its not part of Israels biblical homeland. The fundamentalist jews and arabs make life very difficult in Israel. Im an atheist.


It is definitely a part of biblical Israel, both the West Bank and Gaza. Anyone who has read the Bible, the Christian adaptation or our own original, can clearly read this.

Gaza is an economic drain, but more importantly, a logistic and political expense. It is difficult to protect eight thousand settlers from a million bloodthirsty arabs in an area that is smaller than many American cities. In fact, just about the most crowded place on earth.

Withdrawing in this case, makes sense. Not because the Palestinians deserve anything, but because it is simply not practical to try to live in peace while still interacting with them. This is a disengagement, not a prelude to negotiations, not a gift. It is simply Israel drawing a hard line where before there was a soft line.

Now, they will stay on their side of the line and everyone will be happy; or they will cross it, a declaration of war and they will be punished soundly.

It is definitely a part of biblical Israel, both the West Bank and Gaza. Anyone who has read the Bible, the Christian adaptation or our own original, can clearly read this.


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Sorry... what has this got to do with anything? 'Rights' from religious books have no legal justification in the modern world.

Next argument?

[QUOTE=Yeru Shalayim]It is easy for you to sway that Israel should give up half of (1)its hundred mile wide strip of land, a line which would make in some places only a few miles thick.

2
The Palestinians are not from Palestine. QUOTE]

1. Thats the whole bloody point- it's NOT YOURS to begin with!!

2. Thats the crux of your argument??

Newsflash..... wait for it..... wait... for... it:


Israelis/Jews ain't from Israel originally either!!!!!!!


....and round and round we go..... and round and round we go.....


We can admit that we were forced to leave and had to come back and rebuild it from ruin. They can not. Neither can you. This is because we are honest and you are not. We are also intelligent and learn, instead of repeating the same mindless Islamic Propaganda.

I do not know why I bother to repeat this to you. It did not penetrate your earwax the first dozen or so times, so why would it cut through the chauvinism now?

We needed to rebuild Israel because the rest of the world has thoughtless neo nazi slime like you in it. The arabs are just there to kill us.

You would sacrifice us on the Alter of Allah for your Arab master Dhimmi. You would offer up our lives cheaply, so your own life is forfeit.

You are selfish, but I will not tolerate hypocrisy. The Arabs will come for you and just as you would deny us our right to defend ourselves, I deny you the right to be defended. Bow down to your masters dog, your neck is theirs.

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Sorry... what has this got to do with anything? 'Rights' from religious books have no legal justification in the modern world.

Next argument?


I refuse to repeat myself to you again, you are too short sighted to understand how your actions come back to you, too narcissistic to care about anyone else and too stupid to understand my words. Therefore, I can use you for little more than cheap pot shots.

HEY! HEY! HEY! No name-calling!

Israelis/Jews ain't from Israel originally either!!!!!!!
Then give us Iraq, where our Patriarchs came from. One or the other.

[QUOTE=Psychotic Mongooses]


We can admit that we were forced to leave and had to come back and rebuild it from ruin. They can not. Neither can you. This is because we are honest and you are not. We are also intelligent and learn, instead of repeating the same mindless Islamic Propaganda.

I do not know why I bother to repeat this to you. It did not penetrate your earwax the first dozen or so times, so why would it cut through the chauvinism now?

We needed to rebuild Israel because the rest of the world has thoughtless neo nazi slime like you in it. The arabs are just there to kill us.

You would sacrifice us on the Alter of Allah for your Arab master Dhimmi. You would offer up our lives cheaply, so your own life is forfeit.
You are selfish, but I will not tolerate hypocrisy. The Arabs will come for you and just as you would deny us our right to defend ourselves, I deny you the right to be defended. Bow down to your masters dog, your neck is theirs.

Leave when? Because the ol' 'thousand years' argument again doesn't really hold legally.


Okay Mr. Psycho.... nice to know the spirit of humanity lives on another generation.....

HEY! HEY! HEY! No name-calling!


Then give us Iraq, where our Patriarchs came from. One or the other.



There is a big difference between name calling, and naming names. I stand by everything I said. I call them as they are.

As Iraq goes, a lot of us came from Iraq. There were special efforts to airlift them out and relocate them to Israel. This was necessary, because the British were no longer able to make their half hearted attempts at protecting us from our new neighbors. We actually had a Jewish Kingdom in Southern Iraq at one time, then they converted to Christianity, stopped protecting themselves and were taken over by Moslems.

Then give us Iraq, where our Patriarchs came from. One or the other.
Cool.

Wonder if i can get a nice chateau down in the South of France where my ancestors came from that way.... :D
:D :D :D

[QUOTE=Yeru Shalayim]

Leave when? Because the ol' 'thousand years' argument again doesn't really hold legally.


Okay Mr. Psycho.... nice to know the spirit of humanity lives on another generation.....


As I said before, I refuse to repeat myself to you again. Come back when you have some room in your head, assuming the Arabs have not cut it off yet. if they have, then you should have used it when you still had it.

If we don't have a place of our own, with our own army then, we will be destroyed. Specifically by Islam and eventually by the Christian Traitors.

If we don't have a place of our own, with our own army then, we will be destroyed. Specifically by Islam and eventually by the Christian Traitors.


Exactly, we must and shall, defend ourselves, by ourselves. The Vichy Frogs shall not be given the opportunity to fork us over to our enemies again.

As I said before, I refuse to repeat myself to you again. Come back when you have some room in your head, assuming the Arabs have not cut it off yet. if they have, then you should have used it when you still had it.


:D I'm sorry, i HAVE to laugh at all the above insults and petty child like name calling! I don't know if you are confusing me with another poster- that maybe so.

But i have done nothing to warrant that kind of abuse. I have only debated succinctly and to the point, the arguments you raised. I did not call you an insulting name nor wish you dead- i feel sorry for you in that you seem to have lost that little bit of your soul that gave you your humanity.

I enjoyed the discussions on here until you went a little.... well, frankly , insane. :eek:

That's one main reason I'm going to Israel for college or after it. I must help defend my family. Even if I don't fully agree on the God aspect of it.

We need to expel them back to Jordan and Egypt and whatever. The bedouins that were here can stay, they help us! :D

:D I'm sorry, i HAVE to laugh at all the above insults and petty child like name calling! I don't know if you are confusing me with another poster- that maybe so.

But i have done nothing to warrant that kind of abuse. I have only debated succinctly and to the point, the arguments you raised. I did not call you an insulting name nor wish you dead- i feel sorry for you in that you seem to have lost that little bit of your soul that gave you your humanity.

I enjoyed the discussions on here until you went a little.... well, frankly , insane. :eek:


You have not debated, debating would require you address my points and observe when I have addressed yours instead of repeating same mindless, baseless accusations against Israel.

If you wanted reasons for why we need Israel, I have given you many. You have not noticed, instead repeating the same accusations again and again. Always the same “Biblical Argument”, “Poor ‘Palestinians’” blah blah blah. You repeat the same shallow catch phrases and emotional appeals like a broken record, a record that would not have any merit even if it was not broken.

I refer to Vichy Frogs, I refer to you. You do offer us up, you may not admit do directly but when have the French ever addressed anything directly? Your enemies are used to seeing you from behind!

You deny our right to self defense, understandable perhaps because France has never defended itself. So be it, this time the Arabs will not stop their conquest in Spain.

You refuse to recognize all of the other wars that Islam fights. You refuse to recognize that this problem goes far beyond their desire to eradicate Israel. You refuse to recognize this because you do not debate and are not going to address this now either. You are incapable.

Now again, I find your opinions on the matter do not qualify as thoughts, nor are they important. Israel shall defend itself against your worthless wishes and it will serve you right when your civilization is destroyed by the Hordes. You forfeit your rights on the alter you would sacrifice us on.

Personally its this simple. Palestine is a myth, palestinians are actually syrians and lebanese and egyptians and arabs who caused too much trouble in there own country and got kicked out. This isnt racism or bigotry or zionism. This is simply a historical fact. There is no emotional attachment for me one way or the other honestly. Now there are 2 facts about isreal you must know. First their army is based off british doctrine and policy. Now in every country the british wanted to give up, but had terrorist actions against them. They crushed the insurgency, then gave them independence. SEcond the isrealis many of them went through the holocaust. Deny it and prove your own stupidity and ignorance, the holocaust i mean. So when you see in countries right next to you rallies of millions shouting "Death to Isreal" loud enough you can hear it..well that leads to a bit of distrust. Anyways the palestinians were a threat. When they were invited to live in Lebanon, they started a civil war that toppled the government so they could kill all the christians in the country. Yeah great guys here. Anyways the jews did what they needed to insure peace then left as they said they would. It was a necessary evil to prevent them from having there land stolen by bandits, essentially. Simply put historical facts break it down in to this. I


sreal is invaded, they annex portions of the lands that invaded them as buffer zones, Palestinians and settlers move in and start to fight it out. Both see they have a right ot be there. Soon palestinians are attacking isreal, this needs to stop. The Isreali army occupies the land until they deem it safe and pacified enough to leave, then they leave. I feel bad for both sides i suppose and this is simply a logical conclusion based on historical facts so feel free to shout at me and what not but i am only saying the truth from what i pieced together from history. There are no biases to or against anyone involved, even though its true that palestinians really were people tossed out of the other arab countries...tossed from there homes to be exact...so if there is anyone to blame for stealing there land, they should be looking at the other side of the border, in syria egypt and in arabia for there true homeland. Thanks for listening and dont take offense, this is simple history, i wont put my real opinion up cause that would be biased enough to start a flame lol

That's one main reason I'm going to Israel for college or after it. I must help defend my family. Even if I don't fully agree on the God aspect of it.

We need to expel them back to Jordan and Egypt and whatever. The bedouins that were here can stay, they help us! :D


Some of them do, they have obligatory IDF service just like everyone else who is not already required to spend seven hours each day praying. They need better education however and in some cases better attitudes about Israel. They make too many mistakes in the field, I do not want Israel to be blamed again because some Bedouin freaked out in the middle of a raid and shot some Gaza kid too many times.

Hey Yeru, I was wondering what you thought of reparations to descendants of slaves. After all its protagonists use more or less the same logic that you are using, ie suffering and disenfranchisement of ancestors warrants goodies and bonuses for them.

You seem to be using events that happened millenia ago in order to justify modern Israeli policy. Well the slave trade was happening as early as four hundred years ago, so do you think Sharpton and Jackson should use it as justification for modern policies?

Oh yes and a thousand years ago there were 4 million native americans living in North America. So do you think today's tribes could maybe use this same logic to ask the Americans and Canadians to leave their ancient lands?

Actually in canada, where most of the natives live, they have large reserves and self rule, so we sort of did give them goodies and bonuses and most of there ancient land, and jews never left isreal, they were just handed over to a small group of people that lived there, the palestinians, by a decision by an anti semitic british big wig. Ok i have an 1904-1907 atlas at home, in 1904 it says Judaea in 1906 it was turned to Palestine and explains it why in the book. See i have alot of antique books lol. So in essence the theft was very recent and they never left, just they let the minority rule because they werent jews, literally cause some british prick hated jews.

Personally its this simple. Palestine is a myth, palestinians are actually syrians and lebanese and egyptians and arabs who caused too much trouble in there own country and got kicked out. This isnt racism or bigotry or zionism. This is simply a historical fact. There is no emotional attachment for me one way or the other honestly. Now there are 2 facts about isreal you must know. First their army is based off british doctrine and policy. Now in every country the british wanted to give up, but had terrorist actions against them. They crushed the insurgency, then gave them independence. SEcond the isrealis many of them went through the holocaust. Deny it and prove your own stupidity and ignorance, the holocaust i mean. So when you see in countries right next to you rallies of millions shouting "Death to Isreal" loud enough you can hear it..well that leads to a bit of distrust. Anyways the palestinians were a threat. When they were invited to live in Lebanon, they started a civil war that toppled the government so they could kill all the christians in the country. Yeah great guys here. Anyways the jews did what they needed to insure peace then left as they said they would. It was a necessary evil to prevent them from having there land stolen by bandits, essentially. Simply put historical facts break it down in to this. I


sreal is invaded, they annex portions of the lands that invaded them as buffer zones, Palestinians and settlers move in and start to fight it out. Both see they have a right ot be there. Soon palestinians are attacking isreal, this needs to stop. The Isreali army occupies the land until they deem it safe and pacified enough to leave, then they leave. I feel bad for both sides i suppose and this is simply a logical conclusion based on historical facts so feel free to shout at me and what not but i am only saying the truth from what i pieced together from history. There are no biases to or against anyone involved, even though its true that palestinians really were people tossed out of the other arab countries...tossed from there homes to be exact...so if there is anyone to blame for stealing there land, they should be looking at the other side of the border, in syria egypt and in arabia for there true homeland. Thanks for listening and dont take offense, this is simple history, i wont put my real opinion up cause that would be biased enough to start a flame lol


You have a pretty well rounded opinion. Do make note however, that the Palestinian Syrian invasion of Lebanon, means the Lebanese are not Lebanese either, though a few have found the courage to return in recent years. Christians may well live in Lebanon again, but will not be free until the Syrian’s, both their Soldiers and their Guerillas, have been removed.

I suggest invoking self interest on the parts of those who focus only on Israel. They do not care about us, they do not care how many Jews die, but maybe they will care when they see how they too are targets. Of course, if they can not see, there is no hope for them.

You have not debated, debating would require you address my points and observe when I have addressed yours instead of repeating same mindless, baseless accusations against Israel.

What? Where did i say that or anything close to that?

If you wanted reasons for why we need Israel, I have given you many. You have not noticed, instead repeating the same accusations again and again. Always the same “Biblical Argument”, “Poor ‘Palestinians’” blah blah blah. You repeat the same shallow catch phrases and emotional appeals like a broken record, a record that would not have any merit even if it was not broken.

No, i used the 'biblical argument has no legal standing point' because you brought it up twice in the past 2 pages- thats all.


I refer to Vichy Frogs, I refer to you. You do offer us up, you may not admit do directly but when have the French ever addressed anything directly? Your enemies are used to seeing you from behind!


Wow, if i was French i'd almost be insulted......but i never said i was from France, and i'm not by the way. *clap clap*

You refuse to recognize all of the other wars that Islam fights. You refuse to recognize that this problem goes far beyond their desire to eradicate Israel. You refuse to recognize this because you do not debate and are not going to address this now either. You are incapable.

Listen, Islam, Christianity and Judaism have been the cause of so much death destruction and suffering since they were invented that they need to be thrown in the bin. I hate all religions and all 'causes', 'crusades' and 'jihads'. So don't label me a being for one side or the other. Also, i stated REFUCKINGPEATEDLY that the Jewish people have the right to self determination- AS do the Palestinians. I am for a two state solution not the eradication of the Israeli state nor the Jews- OR the Palestinians/Jordanians/refugees/Arabs whatever you want to call them- they still exist.


.

I was honeslty unaware of the bedouin soldiers inside, and the whole them killling, though i have seen some atrocities that if witnessed by moral soldiers of a decent nation would have them itching to kill and could in turn lead to more atrocities. Once i saw a picture of what Hamas did to some palestinian school girls. Basically they were the children of some people that supported peace in isreal. They were hung about 120 feet off the ground lining a street about 12 of them, i was sickened by it and if i ever did see that, i might shoot people that say threw rocks at me. Oh and for people that say rocks arent deadly weapons. Stoning is a popular method of execution in arab states, Admittedly most bury the people to there neck inthe sand first, but its still deadly, i have seen isrealis killed by large rocks lol. So i would certainly shoot back myself.

oh and as for solutions, Honestly where are their loving islamic brothers, offering them there homes back, offering them portions of syria and arabia and egypt, and not the annexed lands, those thould be isreals, and the rest of the arabs should fess up to their crime and give the palestinians a homeland. but what happens now is alright, but not the best solution.

Hey Yeru, I was wondering what you thought of reparations to descendants of slaves. After all its protagonists use more or less the same logic that you are using, ie suffering and disenfranchisement of ancestors warrants goodies and bonuses for them.

You seem to be using events that happened millenia ago in order to justify modern Israeli policy. Well the slave trade was happening as early as four hundred years ago, so do you think Sharpton and Jackson should use it as justification for modern policies?

Oh yes and a thousand years ago there were 4 million native americans living in North America. So do you think today's tribes could maybe use this same logic to ask the Americans and Canadians to leave their ancient lands?


You have not been paying attention. Do not make me chastise you as well.

Native Americans in the North were mostly nomads. There were a few settled tribes like the Hohokom, but they were pretty much wiped out by their less settled neighbors. They were more like the Arabs really, in the sense that they had never really built anything there, so when they come claiming land they have no specific land to point to. They have some big reservations and casinos now, I would be willing to put the actual Israeli Arabs on reservations and let them run casinos too.

The Palestinians however are more like Aztlan. I referred to this before you actually read my posts. You see the Tribes in Mexico and down were more advanced. Almost as advanced as Ancient Egyptians. They were settled and had human sacrifices and practiced daily cannibalism as part of their religion. Their entire cultures were Cannibalistic, devouring previous civilizations in a steady and distorting and decline.

They were wiped out by Spanish Conquistadors and Missionaries who thought the natives diseases were genuine punishments for heathen acts. They were part right, cannibalism spreads disease fast. They intermarried and now, Aztecs, Inca, Toltec and Maya are in a pure sense, rare. Still, Mexico decided it wanted a dictator, lost Texas, picked a war with America and bought peace by selling land.

This is a lot like what the Arab world has done. Picking wars, picking dictators and Fascists, losing wars it started, then selling land and demanding it back. Aztlan is the “Ancient Mexican homeland Since time Immemorial”. Sort of like how Israel, Chechnya, Kashmir, Southern Thailand, all of Africa and Serbia are “Ancient Homelands Since Time Immemorial” for Arabs.

This is really more like Mexico walking in and demanding the Entire American Southwest. it does not matter to the Aztlan People that Mexico could never develop the west, could not even hold on to Texas, was paid for the land it sold or lost two wars it started. So too does history or reality not matter to Arabs.

Or their Sympathizers whom I believe, are just trying to repeat the Shoah. Why the Neo Nazis on this board, aptly named nationalist Socialists, are all on the Palestinian side. Want me to post some more lively pictures of Arabs in the Nazis Ranks or Yasser Arafat’s Uncle Negotiating with Hitler or some pretty new color pictures of Arabs giving Nazis Salutes or maybe some nice pictures of what they did to the Serbs? Maybe a video of them decapitating a Russian?

.


I am sorry that I lost your foul mouthed little Neo-socialist Rant, but you should have encoded it better.

Whenever you weep on behalf of the “Poor Palestinians”, you are making an accusation against Israel. Anyone can go back and reread the captioned responses to your past posts, if they think it is worth their time to hear one more Jihadi Apologist.

The Biblical Argument is one I have never made. I acknowledge that Gaza is part of Biblical Israel. I am Jewish and well familiar with the conquest of Canaan and the direction from which the Hebrews came. This is a doctrinal matter.

My arguments are based primarily on logistics, that being that it is necessary to “Disengage”, not for peace, but to create a situation where we can hold the Arabs accountable for their actions. Force autonomy on them in a sense.

It was my understanding that your ancestors were Cowards who fled France, probably members of the Vichy Government judging by your opinions. Add more details if I am wrong.

Now I know it popular for Neo Socialists to condemn Christianity and Judaism for all of the horrors in history, in complete disregard to facts. Islam conquered its way to Spain before Christianity lifted a finger to protect itself. There were some small civil wars, later witch hunts and such, but your blanket example of self loathing for your own civilization is unbalanced and just plain wrong. A fine example of why your culture is dying, no one seems to care about it anymore. So be it. You won’t be missed.

Now Israel will protect its hundred mile wide strip of land and when the Arabs want whatever tiny scrap of land they find you on, you will find no friends arguing on your behalf..

I was honeslty unaware of the bedouin soldiers inside, and the whole them killling, though i have seen some atrocities that if witnessed by moral soldiers of a decent nation would have them itching to kill and could in turn lead to more atrocities. Once i saw a picture of what Hamas did to some palestinian school girls. Basically they were the children of some people that supported peace in isreal. They were hung about 120 feet off the ground lining a street about 12 of them, i was sickened by it and if i ever did see that, i might shoot people that say threw rocks at me. Oh and for people that say rocks arent deadly weapons. Stoning is a popular method of execution in arab states, Admittedly most bury the people to there neck inthe sand first, but its still deadly, i have seen isrealis killed by large rocks lol. So i would certainly shoot back myself.


I seem to remember one family, they were West Bank Settlers. They had been offered Bullet Proof Glass, but turned it down until everyone else had bullet proof vests first. A “Palestinian Activist” threw a brick through their windshield while they were driving. It killed one of their small children.

The biggest problem with the “Stone Throwers” is that they primarily exist as shields for gunmen, grenade throwers and of course propaganda.

There are a lot of Israeli Arabs. Those who recognize Israel’s Sovereignty are mostly Christian, but a lot of less practicing Moslems have accepted it and the higher standard of living Israel gives them, as well. A lot of them are the true local “Arabs”. Bedouin who had always been nomads. Their brand of Islam is not well developed or enforced. This makes them naturally loose Moslems and better able to accept Israel. The problem is, as I said, that they are poorly educated and really do not make great soldiers.

A recent example, one of them cracked under pressure and shot a small Gaza Girl who was sent out as a decoy. I can understand the mistake, children there had been used to carry bombs before, but he did not stop shooting. He “Confirmed the Kill”, far too many times. In a sense, freaked out and kept pulling the trigger. Israel tried him of course for it and found he was not mentally fit to continue service. He really never was. Most Israeli Soldiers are far better educated and therefore, can be better trained. They usually have more discipline than that and are made of sterner stuff. Still, I would have no special prejudice against Bedouin Soldiers in the IDF. Like Navajo Code Talkers, it means something special when one who is not fully a part of that culture, is willing to fight for it.

I am sorry that I lost (1) your foul mouthed little Neo-socialist Rant, but you should have encoded it better.

Whenever you weep on behalf of the “Poor Palestinians”, you are making an accusation against Israel. Anyone can go back and reread the captioned responses to your past posts, if they think it is worth their time to hear one more Jihadi Apologist.


(2) It was my understanding that your ancestors were Cowards who fled France, probably members of the Vichy Government judging by your opinions. Add more details if I am wrong.


(3) Now I know it popular for Neo Socialists to condemn Christianity and Judaism for all of the horrors in history, in complete disregard to facts. Islam conquered its way to Spain before Christianity lifted a finger to protect itself. There were some small civil wars, later witch hunts and such, but your blanket example of self loathing for your own civilization is unbalanced and just plain wrong. A fine example of why your culture is dying, no one seems to care about it anymore. So be it. You won’t be missed.

Now Israel will protect its hundred mile wide strip of land and when the Arabs want whatever tiny scrap of land they find you on, you will find no friends arguing on your behalf..

Ok, once more into the breach dear friends... :rolleyes:

<------------Look at my name. I AM NOT NATIONALSOCAILISTS- that nazi tit who was preaching exterminating the jews. Wake up! (1)

(2)I could say your ancestors were Fascists given the tone of your responses.... my 'ancestors' were Hugenots, that left France in the 17c due to....yes thats it... religious persecution!

(3)Oh no no no- i hate ALL religions and zealous nuts like yourself. You espouse hate, fear and death- no true believer in any God does this.

I can debate with people like Sel Appa because they actually make debateable points- you however merely insult and flame. You are no debater.

Ok, once more into the breach dear friends... :rolleyes:

<------------Look at my name. I AM NOT NATIONALSOCAILISTS- that nazi tit who was preaching exterminating the jews. Wake up! (1)

(2)I could say your ancestors were Fascists given the tone of your responses.... my 'ancestors' were Hugenots, that left France in the 17c due to....yes thats it... religious persecution!

(3)Oh no no no- i hate ALL religions and zealous nuts like yourself. You espouse hate, fear and death- no true believer in any God does this.

I can debate with people like Sel Appa because they actually make debateable points- you however merely insult and flame. You are no debater.


He wears the name, he is at least honest about his repugnant opinions. You are both Neo-Socialists however. Being an atheists, spares you no judgement on my part. The active Nazis, you might call them Nazi Extremists, were mostly atheists or pagans.

This is not an insult from me, this is a judgment. I am very judgmental. Not a religious zealot in any way, not for religious persecution either. I am fine with my fellow Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, even these soft headed spiritualists; but I have no stomach for our enemies or those who sympathize with them.

If I sound like I do not respect you, it is because I don’t. You have to earn my respect.

If I sound like I do not respect you, it is because I don’t. You have to earn my respect.
Right mate, whatever.

I don't want or need your 'respect', i came on here to debate. So either debate or don't- but don't start insulting people okay?

I am a Christian and such have always supported the Hebrews but I am also a realist.
The territories have been incorporated into Isreal as far as the Isrealis are concerned and they are the ones to who it matters. Palestinian leaders have always admitted that if there were to be a palestinian nation it would be in Jordan. The fact that the Isrealis have built settlements in these territories has shown that they were in fact incorpoated the areas, with well in excess of 100, 000 Isreali settlers.

If the surrounding countries had agreed to peace agreements, the same way that Egypt had, then the territories would most likely have been returned just as the entire Sinai pinninsula was returned. If all countries were to give back territories that had been conquered in acts of aggression or, as the Isrealis did, in acts of defense the entire North and South America's would be evac'd. Australia and New Zealand would need to be returned, South Vietnam would be free, etc...

The bonus to pulling out of these areas though; is that if the terror attacks continue it shows the real goal is the ellimination of the Jews. It will also make it easier to wipe all of the A**holes out once and for all!

I seem to remember one family, they were West Bank Settlers. They had been offered Bullet Proof Glass, but turned it down until everyone else had bullet proof vests first. A “Palestinian Activist” threw a brick through their windshield while they were driving. It killed one of their small children.

The biggest problem with the “Stone Throwers” is that they primarily exist as shields for gunmen, grenade throwers and of course propaganda.

There are a lot of Israeli Arabs. Those who recognize Israel’s Sovereignty are mostly Christian, but a lot of less practicing Moslems have accepted it and the higher standard of living Israel gives them, as well. A lot of them are the true local “Arabs”. Bedouin who had always been nomads. Their brand of Islam is not well developed or enforced. This makes them naturally loose Moslems and better able to accept Israel. The problem is, as I said, that they are poorly educated and really do not make great soldiers.

A recent example, one of them cracked under pressure and shot a small Gaza Girl who was sent out as a decoy. I can understand the mistake, children there had been used to carry bombs before, but he did not stop shooting. He “Confirmed the Kill”, far too many times. In a sense, freaked out and kept pulling the trigger. Israel tried him of course for it and found he was not mentally fit to continue service. He really never was. Most Israeli Soldiers are far better educated and therefore, can be better trained. They usually have more discipline than that and are made of sterner stuff. Still, I would have no special prejudice against Bedouin Soldiers in the IDF. Like Navajo Code Talkers, it means something special when one who is not fully a part of that culture, is willing to fight for it.
When Isreal was formed they were originally promised ALL the land from the Med to the Tigris, from Turkey to the Red Sea. They argeed to the slashing of their territory to less than 10% and asked the Arabs within their borders to assist the smooth transfer of ownership by working with the Hebrews in forming a free country for all residents. They were answered by the massive emigrations by those deceived by propoganda and unwanted in neighboring countries. By International Laws the people in these "refugee camps" ceased being "refugees" about 50 years ago! They are better described as training camps for hate and violence. The strongest 2 countries under Arab control are also 2 of the countries that have accepted the Isrealis, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Mere coincident?

I can debate with people like Sel Appa because they actually make debateable points- you however merely insult and flame. You are no debater.
THANKS! :D

Anyway, forget biblical arguments. How can you say the land is Palestinian when all our old stuff is there? Dead Sea Scrolls, the Old Temples,... They built their third holy place on OUR TEMPLE! OUR TEMPLE! We worked hard unlike the thugs in Christianity and Islam who just manipulate to get rich. Now, this doesn't work with everyone, but it does with a lot.

Bill Gates bossed companies and became a billionaire.
The 15,000 Saudi princes screwed their citizens and became billionaires.

Albert Einstein thought hard to give us many things. We make technology as Yeru said.


PM, you say that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have caused so much death. The only death Judaism has caused were to squatters and themselves. Christians and Muslims killed each other in crusades and jihads.

If a bunch of Native Americans came to my land and dug up their 15th great grandpa in my backyard, I'd get off their land ASAP. Palestinians have no proof. Maybe Gaza, but that's it. We gave them dozens of choices 50 years ago. They said no. Now they're on the world scene and they suddenly say ok.

EDIT: subscription

Wow. Ultimately, I don't think the problem is with Jews or Muslims or Christians or Buddhists or whatever. The problem is religion itself. Religions seem to start as brilliant sets of ideas and philosophies that are designed to help people live better. Unfortunately, religions all to often morph into cancerous institutions that feed off of humanity in a desperate attempt to grow themselves at any cost. It seems to me like history has shown that mixing religion and nationalism is a pretty stupid idea. I don't think it's been working really well in Israel. I don't think it's been working really well in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. I don't think it will work really well if Bush succeeds in his quest to make the US a Christian nation. I think people need to keep their religions out of their politics.

Hey, I think the world would be better if all religions were gone. But, if one religion gets to stay, Judaism must also stay. In other words, it's here, let's use it (for good purposes).

Hey, I think the world would be better if all religions were gone. But, if one religion gets to stay, Judaism must also stay. In other words, it's here, let's use it (for good purposes).

I agree.

So in addition to racism, you display fascist tendencies, as well as confrontational immaturity? Smooth. :rolleyes:

DUDE! SHUTUP! WHY IS EVERYTHING HE SAYS THAT IS HIS OPINION RACIST OR FACIST OR SOME SORT OF -IST TO YOU?!!? JESUS CHRIST!

Hey, I think the world would be better if all religions were gone. But, if one religion gets to stay, Judaism must also stay. In other words, it's here, let's use it (for good purposes).
No. Let's destroy religion before religion destroys us. I don't think any religion should have any involvement in any government anywhere.

I'm glad you're not my doctor..."The cancer is here, let's not get rid of it...maybe we can find a way to manipulate it into a positive force." ;)

You misinterpreted what I said. Oh well, no point arguing or getting angry.

No. Let's destroy religion before religion destroys us. I don't think any religion should have any involvement in any government anywhere.

I'm glad you're not my doctor..."The cancer is here, let's not get rid of it...maybe we can find a way to manipulate it into a positive force." ;)

I don't think religions should have involvement in government either, but still should exist.

Seperation of Church and State FOREVER!!!

The government should neither help nor hinder religion, like in Sel Appa.

I don't think religions should have involvement in government either, but still should exist.

Seperation of Church and State FOREVER!!!
Yeah, I could live with religion existing, but there are always some nut jobs out there who want to "save" everyone else. I'd personally feel a lot safer without any religion at all. I see religion as a source for many conflicts and the solution to none.

Yeah, I could live with religion existing, but there are always some nut jobs out there who want to "save" everyone else. I'd personally feel a lot safer without any religion at all. I see religion as a source for many conflicts and the solution to none.

True. Though I would feel better with many religions (Even though they'd all be trying to nuke one another.) Then one huge, dominating one that all humans must belong to.

Thats just my thought.

Yeah, I could live with religion existing, but there are always some nut jobs out there who want to "save" everyone else. I'd personally feel a lot safer without any religion at all. I see religion as a source for many conflicts and the solution to none.


Jews do not care whether you are saved or not, so long as you leave us alone. Christians want to save you, but you can always slam the door on them. Moslems are not interested in saving you, the Koran says it quite clearly.

“Allah blinds the eyes of the unbeliever”. If you do not agree with them, they have no obligation to convert you. Just “Smite them above their necks and all of their fingertips”.

Before you start regurgitating the blood libel in an effort to demonstrate “Horrible Things” I would have to suggest you improve your background on the subject. Israel’s Borders “Should” be realistically achieved but I will acknowledge the political challenge in forcing anything right or rational on world opinion, especially with a billion Moslems ruling dozens of countries consistently voting for genocide against Israel.

You acknowledge the Koran’s position regarding global domination, good. Maybe you read it finally. Read it more carefully now and compare it to these “Decisions”. The Ottoman used the Koran as an excuse to conquer everything up to Spain, when France and Germany united against them and pressed them back, when the Pope finally managed to convince Europe that defending itself was not unchristian and a Crusade became apparent, they stopped. Was this because of a re-evaluation of the Koran and some peace loving Turks Fatwa?

No, they were operating well within the guidelines of the Koran. When they are obviously going to lose, they are instructed to accept any offered peace, but continue their war by other less direct means. This is exactly what they did when it became obvious their expansion could not continue. This is what they do when America storms them and this is why Palestinians now claim that they will stop if the “Green Line” is recognized, after half a century of rejecting it.

We have a saying, “We won the war but we are losing the peace”. If we refuse to fight them directly, they will continue to murder us quietly. No one says anything about what they are doing in Darfur or Ivory or Thailand or Serbia or Russia or India; in fact you might make excuses for their murders of Serbs just as you do their murders of Jews. Why this dichotomy?

Israeli Arabs are a threat, a deliberate demographic threat. What Islamic Country would allow a Million Jews to move there? Even Turkey which took in so many Sephardim for economic rewards could never be so bribed. These Arabs are Israeli and enjoy Israeli benefits, but they do not like Israel and in many cases, do not recognize Israel’s right to exist. Some of them do, then again some of them are Bad Moslems or Christians. I love bad Moslems. Nothing pleases me more than a Moslem who rejects his religion for a more reasonable course of action.

Many Israeli Arabs were people who moved in alongside early Zionists. A few have even been around since Turkish Rule. Unlike most Palestinians, they have a valid claim. They are still a threat however, so if anyone has a reason to be “Palestinian”, it is Israeli Arabs. I might consider drawing some borders for Palestine with Israeli Arabs in them, they could be an autonomous country and like any autonomous country, held accountable for their actions. As long as they are happy to stay on their side of the wall, everything would be happy, but if they start firing missiles over the wall or smuggling bombers through, that would be an act of war.

I doubt they would accept this however. They are happy being an integrated part of Israel, helpers for the outside Arabs who want to invade and blow themselves up in cafes, takers of state benefits and voters for Islamism. They are the “One State Solution” which is ultimately a “No State Solution” and then a “Final Solution”.

There is a word for any Jew who would side with such enemies, “Zondercommando”.


This will be my last post on this thread since its just become flaming. I don't care if you respond to what I'm about to say but I'll say it.

The Crusades were started by a mixture of aggression from Muslims and Christians. The Muslims invaded the Byzantine Empire while the pope demanded Europe unite to retake the Middle East.

The Qoran does talk about slavery but the Torah talks about it as well. Thats not practiced by Jews any longer. Most Muslims don't believe in slavery.

Every major religion is full of good ideas and teachings. The problems today lie when the religions ignore centuries of history. Many Jews do want to compleatly recreat the Kingdom of Israel which is impossible to do in todays world. Many Muslims want to conquer the world and enslave or kill anyone that isn't a Muslim. Many Cristians want to round up and murder any Jews. (One of them even posted on this thread.) These are small minorities in the religions however. Yet it only takes a few of them to get together and kill thousands if not millions.

A two state solution is the only conservable one. The Palestiniens aren't going to go away. As long as the West Bank is still occupied more will become terrorists. If the PA is able to take control, peace is much more likely then if Hamas is independent. But as long as the majority of Palestiniens see themselves as occupied, support for terror will keep growing. The terrorist groups won't disapear even in the best case scenarios, but they will lose what ever popularity they have as Palestiniens lives begin to improve.

The disengagment might fail to bring peace, but its important that Palestinien and Israeli leaders are both trying.

Israel has a right to defend itself. If you would deny them that, I would be more than happy to deny you that right and dance on your grave.
I am sorry that I lost your foul mouthed little Neo-socialist Rant, but you should have encoded it better.
We can admit that we were forced to leave and had to come back and rebuild it from ruin. They can not. Neither can you. This is because we are honest and you are not. We are also intelligent and learn, instead of repeating the same mindless Islamic Propaganda.

I do not know why I bother to repeat this to you. It did not penetrate your earwax the first dozen or so times, so why would it cut through the chauvinism now?

We needed to rebuild Israel because the rest of the world has thoughtless neo nazi slime like you in it. The arabs are just there to kill us.

You would sacrifice us on the Alter of Allah for your Arab master Dhimmi. You would offer up our lives cheaply, so your own life is forfeit.

You are selfish, but I will not tolerate hypocrisy. The Arabs will come for you and just as you would deny us our right to defend ourselves, I deny you the right to be defended. Bow down to your masters dog, your neck is theirs.

That last part is equivalent to a threat to his life. We do not tolerate this on NationStates. That, along with the other posts which you've outright flamed others... I'm giving this to you. Hopefully, it'll hit you that insulting people in debate is poor form, and against the rules.
Yeru Shalayim: Official Warning for Flaming

Psychotic Mongooses: You need to calm down as well. Responding to his flames is exactly what he wanted you to do. Next time, I'd suggest you just ignore it.

Euroslavia posted while I was drafting my post. As Euroslavia has addressed "Yeru Shalayim", I'll turn my attention to "Psychotic Mongooses" (with apologies to my associate Euroslavia).

Newsflash..... wait for it..... wait... for... it:

Israelis/Jews ain't from Israel originally either!!!!!!!

....and round and round we go..... and round and round we go..... :rolleyes:
Borderline flamebait. This argument of yours could have been stated significantly more civilly.

Okay Mr. Psycho.... nice to know the spirit of humanity lives on another generation.....Also borderline flamebait. In combination with the first piece of borderline flamebait...

Psychotic Mongooses: Official Warning - Flamebait.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

It is definitely a part of biblical Israel, both the West Bank and Gaza. Anyone who has read the Bible, the Christian adaptation or our own original, can clearly read this.

See, the problem with your argument is you try to use the bible to back up your case. No one knows if the bible is true or not, there is no way to prove it. In reality, what we know for sure is that between the UK and the UN Jewish people were placed in "Israel" in 1948. That is all you have to go on legally and in this world. Biblical arguments really hold no relevance.

Most of them didn't get a vote on the matter of blowing up busses and killing kids. One guy decided to do it. So 1000 other people should die because they had the misfortune of being ethnically and geographically similar to him? You are a very disgusting human being if you really believe this.
If you look at the last elections held in Gaza, most people did vote for Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist organization, therefore most palestinians in Gaza voted in favor of terrorism and the extermination of Israeli Jews.

Well, that's kind of like saying that the US soldier who ass-raped a 15-year-old kid in Abu Graib is representative of the American people. Reasonable to level the neighbourhood of his birth? :rolleyes:

Every violent conflict spawns its fair share of idiots. If you want to level entire city blocks to make a point to someone, don't complain when you find that the principle can be applied in the reverse direction.
The US soldiers who violated the prisoner's rights get court martialed and sent to prison. Palestinian terrorists get treated like heros for killing Israeli civilians. See the difference there?

We punish those who break the rules, therefore we should be judged to be better than the criminals. The Palestinians idolize those who break the rules, therefore they're just as bad as the criminals.

The US soldiers who violated the prisoner's rights get court martialed and sent to prison. Palestinian terrorists get treated like heros for killing Israeli civilians. See the difference there?

We punish those who break the rules, therefore we should be judged to be better than the criminals. The Palestinians idolize those who break the rules, therefore they're just as bad as the criminals.

Then why isn't Donald Rumsfeld in prison?

Well, the Muslim chaps down the road do a splendid 10" pizza for £3 and a 40cm long chip naan for £1.50. As yet, they have expressed no desire to implement sharia law. :confused:
Actually there's a thread today about some British Muslims proposing just that.

Your doing the SAME BLOODY THING!! What is all the 'biblical rights' bullshit for then?!

So you telling me..... when Israel was created there were NOArabic people living there WHATSOEVER?? Unless that is the case, you took their land from them. Stole if you will, settled, occupied whatever.

Jews have the right to self determination, so do Palestinians.
Israel was granted to the Jews by Emir Feisal in 1919. "Palestinians" don't actually exist, since it was never a nation. They're Jordanians. Therefore, Israel belongs right where it is, and the "palestinians" should go home to Jordan.

Why isn't Donald Rumsfeld in prison? Have you never heard of 'plausable deniability'? You can just imagine him going up in front of congress...

"Mr Rumsfeld you are accussed of the mis treatment of Iraqi detainees, and other insurgents from other countries. Whats your possition on this"

"Sorry Guv, didn't know it was happening. I didn't order it, the President didn't order it, perhaps it was God's bidding, well why not Mr President got re-elected on the religous vote." Don't get me wrong I am not anti american, but some of their policies really rile me, such as the Kyoto agrement. America haven't actually said they'll do anything to reduce output of noxious gases that cause global warming. They want to look into technology to control it. Mr Bush is having ideas above his station me thinks, and he needs to stop playing God with his merry bunch of horsemen of the apocalypse.

Sorry rant over. :headbang: :mad:

The reason the Arabs hate America is Isreal.. Osama used Isreal our one sided support of it, to the defferment of the palistions as his excuse, save it i,ve heard that tired excuse from alan pinkis, we did,t have a problem with them before Isreal, as Far as Mexico goes there taking over America anyways we hav 1/10 of mexico population in this country already and 3 milillion came across the border illegaly last year and more are comming everyday, as far as compareing them to whats going on in Isreal no mexican is alive when the united states took part of there land, can you say that about the palistinions, i don,t care if you kill each other your both semitic people, but you are going to bring terrorissm down on me and that i do care about.
The reason the Arabs hate America is that we are a secular nation with guaranteed rights for Women and Gays. Their religion calls this an abomination, yet we thrive while they, with all their oil wealth remain ignorant and backward and all of the arab world has a GNP less than that of Sweden.

The reason the Arabs hate America is that we are a secular nation with guaranteed rights for Women and Gays.

Well, that is true of a lot of Arab countries, however being from Canada myself I'd question just how many "rights" you give gay people, but back on point, then why did you invade Iraq? It was probably the most secular Arab country in the middle east. Women had rights, they could even run for office. These days, well since Bush has become president America isn't looking all that secular to the rest of us either.

They enjoy popular support. They are not called “The Popular Front” for nothing.

Most Moslems who are critical of terrorism, that is the few that are, oppose it on the grounds that they do not think it will effectively achieve their objective, which is not different than the terrorists. In other words, their goal is the same, global Islam one country at a time, but they think there are better ways to get there.

They also tend to argue about who is a terrorist and who is a freedom fighter. They may agree that Bin Ladin was a terrorist if they are in America for example, but are more than happy to let Hamas and Hizbullah murder Jews and Chechens murder Russians and they avoid talking about Kashmir or Ivory Coast or Darfur, especially Darfur as that would cost them a lot of Black Support in America. Imagine the Nation of Islam, if they knew that Arabs were still taking slaves in Africa.

No, most Moslems support the words of the Koran and those words call for war, permanent war, forever. Terrorism, is just a tactic. If they had the strength to fight us directly, they would use different tactics, but the goal is always the same.
Black Sudanese former slaves were shown to Louis Farrakan, the leader of the "Nation of Islam", a black Muslim group in the USA. He refused to beleive them.

[QUOTE=Yeru Shalayim]It is easy for you to sway that Israel should give up half of (1)its hundred mile wide strip of land, a line which would make in some places only a few miles thick.

2.
The Palestinians are not from Palestine. [QUOTE]

1. Thats the whole bloody point- it's NOT YOURS to begin with!!

2. Thats the crux of your argument??

Newsflash..... wait for it..... wait... for... it:


Israelis/Jews ain't from Israel originally either!!!!!!!


....and round and round we go..... and round and round we go..... :rolleyes:
But Israel was granted to modern day Jews in 1919 by Emir Feisal and later by the UN. The Palestinians were Jordanians squatting on land they didnt' own.

When Isreal was formed they were originally promised ALL the land from the Med to the Tigris, from Turkey to the Red Sea. They argeed to the slashing of their territory to less than 10% and asked the Arabs within their borders to assist the smooth transfer of ownership by working with the Hebrews in forming a free country for all residents. They were answered by the massive emigrations by those deceived by propoganda and unwanted in neighboring countries. By International Laws the people in these "refugee camps" ceased being "refugees" about 50 years ago! They are better described as training camps for hate and violence. The strongest 2 countries under Arab control are also 2 of the countries that have accepted the Isrealis, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Mere coincident?
The UN actually violates it's own definition of refugee when applying the term to the vast majority of Palestinians. Just another example of UN's preferencial treatment toward the enemies of Israel.

Well, that is true of a lot of Arab countries, however being from Canada myself I'd question just how many "rights" you give gay people, but back on point, then why did you invade Iraq? It was probably the most secular Arab country in the middle east. Women had rights, they could even run for office. These days, well since Bush has become president America isn't looking all that secular to the rest of us either.
I agree that we could be more liberal, and I hope we progress toward that goal, but most Arab countries still officially outlaw homosexuality.

I've made my feelings about Iraq clear many times on this message board. I was against the invasion from the beginning. If it were up to me we'd be in Sudan, not Iraq.

Can we swing this back to Israel?

We have an actual historical claim to the land. We were there 3000 years ago. Our kingdom was there. This is not biblical, this is archaeology. Explain the Dead Sea Scrolls, Explain how the Romans conquered us, Explain our temple ruins!

Yeru, if you are still here, we forgot about all the trees we plant every year. My Hebrew school always asked for us to sponsor a tree every Tu B'shevat(Festival of Trees). I think I did it once and would like to do it again. We developed that land with our own money.

This will be my last post on this thread since its just become flaming. I don't care if you respond to what I'm about to say but I'll say it.

The Crusades were started by a mixture of aggression from Muslims and Christians. The Muslims invaded the Byzantine Empire while the pope demanded Europe unite to retake the Middle East.

The Qoran does talk about slavery but the Torah talks about it as well. Thats not practiced by Jews any longer. Most Muslims don't believe in slavery.

Every major religion is full of good ideas and teachings. The problems today lie when the religions ignore centuries of history. Many Jews do want to compleatly recreat the Kingdom of Israel which is impossible to do in todays world. Many Muslims want to conquer the world and enslave or kill anyone that isn't a Muslim. Many Cristians want to round up and murder any Jews. (One of them even posted on this thread.) These are small minorities in the religions however. Yet it only takes a few of them to get together and kill thousands if not millions.

A two state solution is the only conservable one. The Palestiniens aren't going to go away. As long as the West Bank is still occupied more will become terrorists. If the PA is able to take control, peace is much more likely then if Hamas is independent. But as long as the majority of Palestiniens see themselves as occupied, support for terror will keep growing. The terrorist groups won't disapear even in the best case scenarios, but they will lose what ever popularity they have as Palestiniens lives begin to improve.

The disengagment might fail to bring peace, but its important that Palestinien and Israeli leaders are both trying.



I will respond, even if you don’t. I always answer these sorts of subjects on principle.

There was a huge gap historically between the Crusades and the Jihad. It was more than just one conquering of the Byzantine.

From its creation, Islam conquered and eradicated everything around it. Mostly Christians. This was true in the time of Mohammed and remained true amongst all sects of his followers after his time.

Christians, Jews and Pagans of various varieties all died on Moslem blades. When Mongols first encountered Moslems, they did not like what they found however and made a pyramid from Moslem Skulls, covered it with pitch and set it on fire. Then they converted to Islam, married Arabs and the result was modern Turks. Turks became the last straw.

Conquering the Holy Land was never enough for Islam. The Byzantine were not enough. Islam demanded conquest and that conquest lead them well in to modern Europe and would not have stopped. They even threatened Britons, some Moslems still claim to be victims of the Crusades while extolling pride at having threatened so far.

It took a lot of work for the Pope to rally Europe. It took a lot of work and the lives of a lot of Christians. The Crusades were only half hearted anyway. It took a monumental effort to convince Europe to fight for itself and even more to keep them fighting.

What does the Torah say about slavery? That one is obligated to free any Jew from it. That debtors may become servants under contract for their price. The conquered were supposed to be slain and not enslaved, the some apparently wound up being servants anyway. There are a lot of things which may be construed as some sort of slavery, but there is a big difference between what is described here and what Islam has done If being a debtor and slavery are equivocated like this, then every American with a credit card is a slave. A big difference exists between debtors and servants and all of the Africans brought to America, by European Slavers, who bought them from Arabs, who to this day are still capturing slaves in Darfur..

Most Moslems do believe in slavery, especially if they believe in the Koran. It promises them slaves. They may find it unfeasible today or economically impractical, but if they are “Good Moslems” following the Koran, then they necessarily condone slavery, are obligated to work towards enslaving all of us.

I see no good teachings in the Koran. It condones lying, genocide, treachery, a legal and political system where globally all Non-Moslems are only considered a quarter human, slavery is condoned, women are considered children, even cowardice when coupled with boldness becomes a virtue. “No’ it is good onto you!”. How often did Mohammed start a contradiction with this sentence!

There is nothing wrong with recreating The Kingdom of Israel, except for figuring out who is going to be “King” of the “Kingdom”. The existence of Israel at all is enough for most Jews and enough to bring a bloodthirsty rage to the eyes of most Moslems and Eurosocialist Islamic Apologists.

No “Christian” wants to round up Jews. There is absolutely nothing Christian about it. Some Christians abandoned their religion to follow the Pagan Nazis who saw Christianity as a Jewish tool used to “Burden” their so called “Aryans” with a Conscience. I suspect a lot of these “Atheist Fundamentalists” have a similar motive.

The west bank is not occupied. The Palestinians do not exist. They are all either terrorists, terrorist supporters or people who think they would be better off fighting openly, because No Arab Calls Himself A Palestinian Unless He Is Attempting to Displace Israel and Massacre The Jewish People. If They Wanted Peace, They had It Back In Jordan. “Occupation” is a Myth.

Israel “Disengages”, but this has nothing to do with peace. It is “Disengaging” and nothing more. Dictating Borders to people who will never agree to borders, not I Israel, not in Russia, not in India, not anywhere. Islam recognizes no borders, so borders must be forced.

That last part is equivalent to a threat to his life. We do not tolerate this on NationStates. That, along with the other posts which you've outright flamed others... I'm giving this to you. Hopefully, it'll hit you that insulting people in debate is poor form, and against the rules.
Yeru Shalayim: Official Warning for Flaming

Psychotic Mongooses: You need to calm down as well. Responding to his flames is exactly what he wanted you to do. Next time, I'd suggest you just ignore it.


I did not threaten him. I recognized the simple fact that Islam, as a belief system, plans to use him and then kill him. Sort of like how Nazis used some Russians to Round up Jews, then killed them as well.

If Nationstates does not tolerate honest argument due to political ideology, then maybe Nationstates is not the place to be discussing anything serious. After all, this is Your “Father Knows Best State”.

See, the problem with your argument is you try to use the bible to back up your case. No one knows if the bible is true or not, there is no way to prove it. In reality, what we know for sure is that between the UK and the UN Jewish people were placed in "Israel" in 1948. That is all you have to go on legally and in this world. Biblical arguments really hold no relevance.



I am not going to repeat myself, to you again. I said nothing about the Bible as a support for my position.

Then why isn't Donald Rumsfeld in prison?


I am shocked and dismayed that anyone is in prison for laughing at a terrorists wiener.

Especially while people who regularly decapitate innocent civilians walk free and those who cheer them on get “Peace Prizes” for it.

Christians, Jews and Pagans of various varieties all died on Moslem blades. When Mongols first encountered Moslems, they did not like what they found however and made a pyramid from Moslem Skulls, covered it with pitch and set it on fire. Then they converted to Islam, married Arabs and the result was modern Turks. Turks became the last straw.
They also sacked Baghdad and the Arabs now blame America on the Mongols. YAY MONGOLS!...who may have been part of the lost tribes.

There is nothing wrong with recreating The Kingdom of Israel, except for figuring out who is going to be “King” of the “Kingdom”. The existence of Israel at all is enough for most Jews and enough to bring a bloodthirsty rage to the eyes of most Moslems and Eurosocialist Islamic Apologists.
I'll be that thank you! Shhhh!

Why isn't Donald Rumsfeld in prison? Have you never heard of 'plausable deniability'? You can just imagine him going up in front of congress...

"Mr Rumsfeld you are accussed of the mis treatment of Iraqi detainees, and other insurgents from other countries. Whats your possition on this"

"Sorry Guv, didn't know it was happening. I didn't order it, the President didn't order it, perhaps it was God's bidding, well why not Mr President got re-elected on the religous vote." Don't get me wrong I am not anti american, but some of their policies really rile me, such as the Kyoto agrement. America haven't actually said they'll do anything to reduce output of noxious gases that cause global warming. They want to look into technology to control it. Mr Bush is having ideas above his station me thinks, and he needs to stop playing God with his merry bunch of horsemen of the apocalypse.

Sorry rant over. :headbang: :mad:



Kyoto made absolutely no sense, it only applied to countries that already have pretty good environmental standards. Carbon Monoxide I can understand, but if you want to reduce Carbon Dioxide, how about “You” stop making it?

Well, that is true of a lot of Arab countries, however being from Canada myself I'd question just how many "rights" you give gay people, but back on point, then why did you invade Iraq? It was probably the most secular Arab country in the middle east. Women had rights, they could even run for office. These days, well since Bush has become president America isn't looking all that secular to the rest of us either.


The last Iraqi Election before we got there had one name on the ballot. “Saddam”. No one ran for office in Iraq, not that I particularly care about anyone there except the Kurds. As far as I am concerned, Sunni and Shiite are both hell bent on global genocide and are just fighting for the honor of being the ones to succeed.

My personal opinion regarding equal rights for gays, they can have all the same rights as the rest of us, including the right t marry, voluntary members of the opposite sex. I do not mind if I am not allowed to marry a member of the same sex either. I hereby forfeit the right to marry within the same sex, on behalf of all straight people, everywhere.

Can we swing this back to Israel?

We have an actual historical claim to the land. We were there 3000 years ago. Our kingdom was there. This is not biblical, this is archaeology. Explain the Dead Sea Scrolls, Explain how the Romans conquered us, Explain our temple ruins!

Yeru, if you are still here, we forgot about all the trees we plant every year. My Hebrew school always asked for us to sponsor a tree every Tu B'shevat(Festival of Trees). I think I did it once and would like to do it again. We developed that land with our own money.


Google Maps is a great thing, especially since they went global and added Satellite Imagery. You can zoom in and see the borders Israel has with each region. You can see the line, green on one side and desert on the other. Israel is a very artificial country, kept alive by an incredible amount of effort. It is the closest thing to terra forming ever. On one side of the wall, wasteland. On the other side, Gardens. This is what “Green Line” should really mean.

Behold, the Hordes as they lay siege to the wall, but in vain are their hopes, as vain as their western allies.

Can we swing this back to Israel?

We have an actual historical claim to the land. We were there 3000 years ago. Our kingdom was there. This is not biblical, this is archaeology. Explain the Dead Sea Scrolls, Explain how the Romans conquered us, Explain our temple ruins!

Yeru, if you are still here, we forgot about all the trees we plant every year. My Hebrew school always asked for us to sponsor a tree every Tu B'shevat(Festival of Trees). I think I did it once and would like to do it again. We developed that land with our own money.

That is a ridiculous argument.
Based on this, then America should be given to the American Indian and the rest of us should pack up and go home to where our ancestors came from.

Israel was created by Great Britian and the USA.
And NO, they didnt' win all the wars since Israel was created on their own. The USA has been helping them with aid and arms since they were created.

They also sacked Baghdad and the Arabs now blame America on the Mongols. YAY MONGOLS!...who may have been part of the lost tribes.


I'll be that thank you! Shhhh!


Chele Kula was build from the skulls of Serbian Christians by the Turks. I think they may have gotten the idea from the Mongols. I can not imagine the Mongols being a lost tribe, horse blood just isn’t kosher.

If you ever met anyone named Khan from India, they were probably Indian Moslems. A lot of them think they are descended from Ghengis Khan, even though John Kerry could not pronounce his name correctly. Whether or not they are actually descended from him is often questionable, but one thing is not. A lot of them, being Indian Moslems, support wholesale genocide against Hindus.

A good example is one Bollywood actor named Salman Khan. Salman Khan is not a true Moslem by any means. Seriously, the man drinks, a lot and that is a violation of Islam. He also wears jewelry, another violation of Islam. One way he does not violate Islam is by working towards the extermination of his Hindu employers, co workers and movie fans. He is proud of all the Hindus his people murdered to build their Babar Mosque. He is even more proud of all the Hindus Ghengis Khan murdered, whom he is certain was his ancestor and proud of it. He beats a lot of women, especially Hindu Women, especially when he is drunk or stoned. He also supports the Palestinians and the Chechens and I am sure he will soon speak out in favor of an Islamic Takeover in Thailand. Be they Hollywood types or Bollywood types, we just can’t trust them.

That is a ridiculous argument.
Based on this, then America should be given to the American Indian and the rest of us should pack up and go home to where our ancestors came from.

Israel was created by Great Britian and the USA.
And NO, they didnt' win all the wars since Israel was created on their own. The USA has been helping them with aid and arms since they were created.


No, Israel was built by Jewish people in a desert where there was previously, nothing and America never gave Israel support until the Yom Kippur war and then only after the fighting had pretty much ended.

America did sell Israel some fighter planes with Kennedy in office and small arms when Carter had to find someone to help him arm the Iranian Theocrats, but for the most part, the Islamic Excuse that the billion or so of them failed to destroy Israel, America, is about as plausible as their claims that Pokemon was created by Japanese Jews to corrupt their children.


http://www.dailyrotten.com/articles/archive/48969.html

No, Israel was built by Jewish people in a desert where there was previously, nothing and America never gave Israel support until the Yom Kippur war and then only after the fighting had pretty much ended.

America did sell Israel some fighter planes with Kennedy in office and small arms when Carter had to find someone to help him arm the Iranian Theocrats, but for the most part, the Islamic Excuse that the billion or so of them failed to destroy Israel, America, is about as plausible as their claims that Pokemon was created by Japanese Jews to corrupt their children.


http://www.dailyrotten.com/articles/archive/48969.html
Better watch out for those damn Japanese Jews and their world dominating cartoons and trading cards.

Well, that's kind of like saying that the US soldier who ass-raped a 15-year-old kid in Abu Graib is representative of the American people. Reasonable to level the neighbourhood of his birth? :rolleyes:

Every violent conflict spawns its fair share of idiots. If you want to level entire city blocks to make a point to someone, don't complain when you find that the principle can be applied in the reverse direction.

Yup. Nagasaki and Hirhoshima ended a war and saved a few million lives, I'm pretty sure vaporizing a few terrorist's family homes would do the trick too.

[QUOTE=Psychotic Mongooses]...an atheist Jew....? :confused:[/Being Jewish is about a bloodline not just a religion. If your mother is a Jew then you are too no matter what your beliefs.

Canadian agnostic.

Yes this Gaza Pullout is good because the Israelis took over land that wasn't theirs. That land was the home to palestinians for a long time. The Israelis on the other hand, it was promised to them by god... (HELLO? Same guy but different religions! IT would be redundant to the palestnians).

Not entirely sure what relevance my religion bares but since you ask I was christened into the faith of the church of England, however anyone who knows the history of the birth of the C of E religion will know that it's pretty hard to take it seriously so I'll officially deem myself as agnostic.
As for the issue surrounding the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories I feel the withdrawl is highly overdue. Those lands were never included within the Israeli territories when the state was set up in 1947 and countless civilians have died as a result of the Palestinain struggle to protect the scraps of land that they were left with including a friend of mine. I have to point out that I am not anti Israeli, I lived in the country for sometime and hold great affection for the culture and people who live there and I appreciate that it's important for the Jewish people to congregate in a country which they can be proud of and protect but what they suffered doesn't give them the right to steal land from those citizen who were living in the middle east prior to the founding of the state of Israel, neither is it acceptable to oppress those peoples way of life and religion and in effect form an aparitde. Of all the people in the world the Jewish should know better.

Canadian agnostic.

Yes this Gaza Pullout is good because the Israelis took over land that wasn't theirs. That land was the home to palestinians for a long time. The Israelis on the other hand, it was promised to them by god... (HELLO? Same guy but different religions! IT would be redundant to the palestnians).



No it was not their land for “A Long Time”. Even if they had all of Israel, without Israeli Technology the region could not even support “The Palestinians”. They are Jordanian, Syrian and Egyptian. When they say “Time Immemorial” they mean the sixties.

Keep this up and they will want wherever you live as “Their Ancient Homeland Since Time Immemorial”. Doubt it, ask India or Russia or Serbia what its like, or ask the Lebanese, but you won’t be asking them in Lebanon.