NationStates Jolt Archive

[QUOTE=Gessler][QUOTE]

Put millions of blacks and middle easteners next to them. Then see if you can tell.[QUOTE]

what the hell are you talking about. I was refering to the statement about white europe. what is white europe exactly. answer that and we can continue.

He really don’t care one bit for your culture or your ways so there is no point in trying to change his ways. Quite typical for most of your generation these days, don’t care about anything.

And what generation would that be, pray?

And what generation would that be, pray?

True I don’t know how old you are, I am 17 at least and I suspect that you are about the same age?


what the hell are you talking about. I was refering to the statement about white europe. what is white europe exactly. answer that and we can continue.

So you are blind?

On what grounds?
And I think "selfishness" is a good reason to die out... which, considering that parts of my family have begun to breed like rabbits, isn't very likely at all.

To die out by choice? I'm sorry, not this Connecticut Yankee (nee Slovak). ;)

True I don’t know how old you are, I am 17 at least and I suspect that you are about the same age?


Double that and you're almost there... so muchc for the generation-argument :rolleyes:

To die out by choice? I'm sorry, not this Connecticut Yankee (nee Slovak). ;)

Well, then don't. Nobody's forcing you. But I personally am not going to reproduce. The gene pool will just have to do without me.

mmm..

does anyone actually have any stats for these arguments?
this site shows that in Britain 7.9% of the population is none-white.
clicky (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=764)

So out of every 12 people in Britain, 1 is non-white. oh well there goes the race....

Well, then don't. Nobody's forcing you. But I personally am not going to reproduce. The gene pool will just have to do without me.

That's our loss, then. :(

mmm..

does anyone actually have any stats for these arguments?
this site shows that in Britain 7.9% of the population is none-white.
clicky (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=764)

So out of every 12 people in Britain, 1 is non-white. oh well there goes the race....

The link was working.....
anyway if anyone else wants the info its on www.statistics.gov.uk

Well, then don't. Nobody's forcing you. But I personally am not going to reproduce. The gene pool will just have to do without me.


Hmm haven't read all of this topic yet so perhaps you'd be good enough to inform me if sustainable development or overpopulation of the world has come up, and how countries that have slower growth rates are a very good thing because we only have one world and it's resources are dwindling fast.

Granted 80% of the world's resources are being used by 20% - but shouldn't that be even more reason to not want higher growth rates in Europe??

I'm quite distressed over the explosion of development in Ireland and our completely unsustainable culture that's grown exponentially with the "celtic tiger" - the whole two cars and a house that looks the exact same as 200 others in the suburbs somewhere... Surely less of us is better for the country?

Hmm haven't read all of this topic yet so perhaps you'd be good enough to inform me if sustainable development or overpopulation of the world has come up, and how countries that have slower growth rates are a very good thing because we only have one world and it's resources are dwindling fast.

Granted 80% of the world's resources are being used by 20% - but shouldn't that be even more reason to not want higher growth rates in Europe??

I'm quite distressed over the explosion of development in Ireland and our completely unsustainable culture that's grown exponentially with the "celtic tiger" - the whole two cars and a house that looks the exact same as 200 others in the suburbs somewhere... Surely less of us is better for the country?

True... lately, some awareness of environment and pollution issues had grown, but it's still ages behind mainland Europe. On the other hand, if there is one country in Europe that is still somewhat underpopulated (that's to say, that has considerably less inhabitants now than it had at some point in the past), it's Ireland.

Just for the record : I don't own any car, never have and never will. ;)
And, as said before, I don't see Europe as a dying continent and consquently don't see the slightest need to add to the general overpopulation of the planet.

And once more I refer you to the Solow-Swan Model.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exogenous_growth_model

=Jjimjja
what the hell are you talking about. I was refering to the statement about white europe. what is white europe exactly. answer that and we can continue.

To explain the obvious white Europe is a continent mostly inhabited by white people.
Anglo saxons, celts, germans slavs etc why, do you have a problem with that?

Again, so what? Do you regret that the European Neanderthal died out with the arrival of the Cro Magnon?


Great answer so what?
Of course I dont regret the neanderthals dying out by the arrival of Cro magnon, he was the beginning of the white race in Europe.
Would I regret the white race dying out in Europe and everywhere else, uhh yes, why? BECAUSE I'M WHITE!! :rolleyes:

-snip-
Maybe Neanderthals were white too...who knows?

Maybe Neanderthals were white too...who knows?

They were, but a differnt kind of human also, theres talk that they had telepathic powers.
Also on their subject, they werent the brutes painted out, they were it seems a more gentle people than the cro magnons, which may be why they died out.
They were tougher and hardier than cro magnon, and alot stronger, but they werent it seems as smart.
Also evidence has been found they were fond of flowers.

http://www.funtrivia.com/quizzes/religion/

i though that question was easy... but its not
eventhought the titanic improvment theEU has achieved since it foundation, the EU has made its biggest mistake...accept 10 extra "POOR" countries
europe is not that pwerfull to hold on with a 25 countries and a population easily exceeding the 450 million, with hight unemployment rate, and high immigration rate....

but yet, the EU is very strong military wise, econimicaly, politicly and has all the neccessary charachteristics to become a super power that can face the USA one day, and maybe even today...while china is in the way of becoming a super power but it needs over 20 years to achiev that... so the only competitor for the EU noww is USA, and it is easily shown between the huge companies on both sides, like the airbus and boeing(or however its spelled)
anywayz...not because the constitution didnt work out in france and netherlands then its the collapse of europe, the constitution has bees approved in several other important european countries.

There is no evidence for modern day "white" Europeans evolving from neanderthal / Cro-Magnon. This and the "Aryan" theory are largely the constructs of some euro-centric "scholars" which has been debunked quite clearly.

Has anybody read Oppenheimers recent book, The real Eve ?

some info here http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/stephenoppenheimer/

There is no evidence for modern day "white" Europeans evolving from neanderthal / Cro-Magnon. This and the "Aryan" theory are largely the constructs of some euro-centric "scholars" which has been debunked quite clearly.
Has anybody read Oppenheimers recent book, The real Eve ?
some info here http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/stephenoppenheimer/

Its quite obvious that white people in Europe are descended from Cro magnon, and probably neanderthal genes thrown in as well.
If not then where did the Cro magnons go?

If not then where did the Cro magnons go?
Right here. Cro-magnon man is simply archaic Homo sapiens. Every human on earth is technically a descendant of Cro-magnon man.

On an aside, no living person has genes from Neandertal man. H. neandertalensis is an entirely different species, as gene studies have shown. Your information is over twenty years out of date.

They were, but a differnt kind of human also, theres talk that they had telepathic powers.

*stares*

Brain. Hurt.

[QUOTE=CthulhuFhtagn]Right here. Cro-magnon man is simply archaic Homo sapiens. Every human on earth is technically a descendant of Cro-magnon man.

Ah, so the whites are descended from Cro magnum.

On an aside, no living person has genes from Neandertal man. H. neandertalensis is an entirely different species, as gene studies have shown. Your information is over twenty years out of date.

I dont believe so, everynow and then you see a throwback walking past, the low brow and receeding chin, strong looking body.
Anyone remember Andre the Giant? WWF wrestler from the seventies and eighties?

Ah, so the whites are descended from Cro magnum.
Everyone is.


I dont believe so, everynow and then you see a throwback walking past, the low brow and receeding chin, strong looking body.

Other than your total ignorance about what Homo neandertalensis looked like, I have one comment. Your beliefs don not dictate reality. What is more likely to be correct? Your ignorant musings, or every single genetics test that has ever been conducted on the subject?

Edit: And it's Cro-magnon. Revolvers have nothing to do with it.

Ah, so the whites are descended from Cro magnum.
Yes. Black Cro Magnon People who came from Africa.

I dont believe so, everynow and then you see a throwback walking past, the low brow and receeding chin, strong looking body.
Anyone remember Andre the Giant? WWF wrestler from the seventies and eighties?
:D

They were, but a differnt kind of human also, theres talk that they had telepathic powers.
Also on their subject, they werent the brutes painted out, they were it seems a more gentle people than the cro magnons, which may be why they died out.
They were tougher and hardier than cro magnon, and alot stronger, but they werent it seems as smart.
Also evidence has been found they were fond of flowers.

http://www.funtrivia.com/quizzes/religion/

Telepathic... powers....
Right. Ok. And archeological evidence for telepathic powers can be obtained in what way exactly?

The Neanderthals were already dying out when the Cro Magnon arrived, they had serious difficulties adapting to changing climate and dropping temperatures. Their reproduction was considerably slower and produced less offspring than the Cro Magnons, which furthered their extiction. There is archeological evidence, however, of interbreeding of the two species.

Face facts, the human race will die out at one point or another. Does it make any difference at all if that happens in 5000 or 5 000 000 years? And the "white" race will be long gone by then anyway...

To explain the obvious white Europe is a continent mostly inhabited by white people.
Anglo saxons, celts, germans slavs etc why, do you have a problem with that?

i don't. but spanish and greek and italians are not as white as people further north, so i wanted to see if you still considered them as white

Look Gressler, you seem have to have this big fear about white people dying out or mixing with other colours so much that there are no longer white people. correct?
If that's your worry fair enough. Most people worry about their own culture. Whether your native american, chinese, egyptian, whatever..
Anyway, you seem to think that soooo many non-white immigrants are going to come to europe and its going to become europistan or some such. People are coming to europe from all over because its a wealthy area. They come to live/work/contribute to our cultures. And because most of the world is still going through its own industrial revolution, their populations are booming and people are moving around alot. But like most of europe the rest of the world will land up settling down. In the meantime europe will allow more immigrants in.
Just remember, in the long run they will interbreed with white europe and all the browns/yellows/blacks that you seem to fear will become white or mostly white.
Remeber no country has ever been destroyer through immigration. War yes, invasion yes, immigration no.

If you want to talk "Race", then talk Semitic versus Indogermanic, but I somehow don't think Gessler would be too happy with Indians all over Europe...

[QUOTE=Leonstein]Yes. Black Cro Magnon People who came from Africa.

Soooo these black cro magnons suddenly became over a few thousand years ...white?

Soooo these black cro magnons suddenly became over a few thousand years ...white?
Yes. That is correct. It's what happens if you have less sunshine - the pigments in the skin change.

BTW: The correct code is ["QUOTE=name"]bla bla bla["/QUOTE"]
Without the "

If you want to talk "Race", then talk Semitic versus Indogermanic, but I somehow don't think Gessler would be too happy with Indians all over Europe...

indogermanic? is that the same as indo-european. or is it different.

was actually curious about that.

Gessler what about semitic people?

indogermanic? is that the same as indo-european. or is it different.
I assume it is. I know them as "Indogermanic" peoples, but maybe some might take offense to that. :rolleyes:

"The language group was briefly referred to as "Indo-Germanic", until it became apparent that the group included most of the other languages of Europe, as well. "Indo-European", the term now current in English, was coined in 1813 by the British scholar Sir Thomas Young. Franz Bopp performed extensive comparative work."
Ooops. My bad. :D

Anyways. Arabs are semitic.

[QUOTE]

Soooo these black cro magnons suddenly became over a few thousand years ...white?

Look back a few pages, I posted something on the evolution of lighter skin and the necessity of melatonin in Europe...

Telepathic... powers....
Right. Ok. And archeological evidence for telepathic powers can be obtained in what way exactly?

Larger brain.

The Neanderthals were already dying out when the Cro Magnon arrived, they had serious difficulties adapting to changing climate and dropping temperatures. Their reproduction was considerably slower and produced less offspring than the Cro Magnons, which furthered their extiction. There is archeological evidence, however, of interbreeding of the two species.

I know, you see evidence of neanderthal in certain people every now and then.

The cro magnons bred them out and also probably took over their food sources, the neanderthal was a huge lover of meat, and having inferior hunting methods, to the cro magnon, couldnt kill his meat quick enough in the winter, when it was hardest to hunt and find kills, and a greater chance of dying from cold and starvation.
It seems that the neanderthal hadnt even mastered the spear, seeing it as a weapon to stab into the beast rather than aim and throw, this led to their demise. as food is easier and far less dangerous to bring down from a distance than up close, using of course the right technique.
Picture the poor neanderthals tracking down a bison on the cold howling winter, they have been tracking for two days, have spent one night out in the cold wind, their food they bought with them(some strips of meat) from their camp has run out, they must kill today, then drag the beast back to their starving women and children, or die with them.
They(2) it had been 3, but Og died from frostbite the previous night, suddenly find spore(animal shit or piss) excitedly and using great stealth, they find a herd of beasts in a clearing, ripping roots out from beaneath the snow, the cold biting wind is howling around them muffling their approach, finally after twenty minutes they come in on a bison on the outer edge of the herd and rush in from both sides of it stabbing it with their sharpened stakes.
The rest of the herd scatter and this bison starts to fight for its life, suddenly it wheels on one of the neanderthals and runs him over seriously huring him but not killing him, remember the neanderthals were a tough, strong breed, the other neanderthal vainly trys to stab it but it gets away with one of their stakes impaled in its ribs.
The neanderthal goes over to pick his friend up, they are physically exhausted from the trek for food, the elements lack of food, and finally this encounter, they watch the bison stagger off, it is slowing down, there may still be hope for them and their starving familys, suddenly something flashes before their eyes and hits the bison, it staggers, nearly falls over, now it has they see two sticks hanging out of it, then two more things flash through the air hitting the bison in the neck and ribs, this time it drops and doesnt get up, it now has they see four sticks protuding from it.
They start to approach the kill uncertainly and stop. Because out of one side of the clearing figures have walked out, they look thinner than neanderthals, and abit taller, they are also they see much better clothed and wear coverings on their feet.
The neanderthals see six of these strange new men walk up to the beast and look around, they are also carrying more of these strange sticks that have something glittering on the end of them.
The neanderthals know they are beaten by these superior newcomers who can bring down food from a distance somehow, and turn supporting each other, to trudge off into the cold.


Face facts, the human race will die out at one point or another. Does it make any difference at all if that happens in 5000 or 5 000 000 years?

Of course it does, what if the white race had died out 500 years ago,you wouldnt be here for a start, and neither would be alot of other stuff.

And the "white" race will be long gone by then anyway...

If it interbreeds with other races too much, or doesnt replace itself yes.
But other than that, it could be around for another two million years or more.

Yes. That is correct. It's what happens if you have less sunshine - the pigments in the skin change.

BTW: The correct code is ["QUOTE=name"]bla bla bla["/QUOTE"]
Without the "

So does this mean all the blacks and arabs flooding into Europe will also be one day, white?

So does this mean all the blacks and arabs flooding into Europe will also be one day, white?
Indeed it does.
And then we'll be fine again!

EDIT: Unless Global Warming gets to them first...

Larger brain.

There's a German proverb "Leave the thinking to the horses, they've got bigger brains than you"
Brain size doesn't correlate directly to intelligence or other mental abilities.



I know, you see evidence of neanderthal in certain people every now and then.

That, on the other hand, is highly unlikely. Scientists observed only one generation of cross-breeds. It is assumed that even though the two species were compatible enough to produce children together, their genetic material was too divers for those children to reproduce in term. In modern comparison, Cro Magnon were horses, Neanderthal donkeys...



Of course it does, what if the white race had died out 500 years ago,you wouldnt be here for a start, and neither would be alot of other stuff.
If it interbreeds with other races too much, or doesnt replace itself yes.
But other than that, it could be around for another two million years or more.

Other stuff and other people would be here, and maybe they would have done better, there's no way of telling really.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for all white people to be killed this very instant, but honestly, I couldn't care less if people 200 years from now were green or blue rather than white or black... it doesn't make the slightest difference.

Indeed it does.
And then we'll be fine again!

EDIT: Unless Global Warming gets to them first...

Global warming wouldn't be as fast as that holw in the ozone layer. Melatonin protects against UV radiation. So, if we continue on the way we do, maybe the white population of the planet will turn darker within the next 100 years.. most likely, really.

BTW: The correct code is ["QUOTE=name"]bla bla bla["/QUOTE"]
Without the "I don't think he cares...

Global warming wouldn't be as fast as that holw in the ozone layer.
True, true.
Although here I have a tendency to turn red rather than black... :D

Global warming wouldn't be as fast as that holw in the ozone layer. Melatonin protects against UV radiation. So, if we continue on the way we do, maybe the white population of the planet will turn darker within the next 100 years.. most likely, really.Or die off from skin cancer... The funny thing is, global warming is probably what is behind all the hurricanes. Hurricanes are a natural cooling process...

I don't think he cares...
Oh, I think he does. I reckon his next few posts will have proper quotes.
I hope.

[QUOTE=Cabra West]There's a German proverb "Leave the thinking to the horses, they've got bigger brains than you"
Brain size doesn't correlate directly to intelligence or other mental abilities.

It was something about some part of their brain adapted to telepathy, where ours is very underdeveloped.



That, on the other hand, is highly unlikely. Scientists observed only one generation of cross-breeds. It is assumed that even though the two species were compatible enough to produce children together, their genetic material was too divers for those children to reproduce in term. In modern comparison, Cro Magnon were horses, Neanderthal donkeys...

Well if they can have children, wouldnt it mean the next generation could as well?


Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for all white people to be killed this very instant, but honestly, I couldn't care less if people 200 years from now were green or blue rather than white or black... it doesn't make the slightest difference.

Maybe to you it doesnt, but as a connissour of the white race and its fantastic cultures, it means alot to me.

Indeed it does.
And then we'll be fine again!
EDIT: Unless Global Warming gets to them first...

It wont be the same I think.

It wont be the same I think.
If you are talking about skincolour, then it will be.
Culture on the other hand is different. But we already established that culture constantly changes, and much of what we call "European" came from the Arabs anyways in the Renaissance.

Oh, I think he does. I reckon his next few posts will have proper quotes.
I hope.I asked him to work on his posts, but he failed to do so. Maybe he'll correct it just to spite me... :D

If you are talking about skincolour, then it will be.
Culture on the other hand is different. But we already established that culture constantly changes, and much of what we call "European" came from the Arabs anyways in the Renaissance.

A lot of great ideas came, but that hardly makes up awhole change of culture.

So does this mean all the blacks and arabs flooding into Europe will also be one day, white?

FOR FUCK SAKE!!!
what colour are arabs anyway? If we were to put you, an arab and a chinaman next to each other and asked someone from africa to point out the difference, he'd probably think we all liked alike.
What is this fixeation with being pasty white/pink? what did you get picked on by black kids when you were younger? what is your aversion to other skin tones?

It was something about some part of their brain adapted to telepathy, where ours is very underdeveloped.

Given that
1) It still is very difficult to place certain activities in certain areas in the brain, particularly since most acitvities require more than one brain area to be active
2) There is no scientific prove of telepathy in any kind of animal known today
how would a serious scientist come to the conclusion that Neanderthals were telepathic judging from the form of their skulls?


Well if they can have children, wouldnt it mean the next generation could as well?

No.
If you cross a horse with a donkey, you will get a mule, a cross-breed between the two species. However, mules are not capable of reproducing, as their genetic material won't allow it.


Maybe to you it doesnt, but as a connissour of the white race and its fantastic cultures, it means alot to me.

You seem to think that there is a relation between skin colour and culture... how do you come to that conclusion?

A lot of great ideas came, but that hardly makes up awhole change of culture.

Erm.... it did. Quite significantly so. It turned European culture into what it is today.

It wont be the same I think.

Why? You were the one going on about skin colour, an ouward attribute influenced exclusively by the amount of sunlight the respective habitat receives on average.
Yes, if Arabs and Africans come to live in Europe, they will turn very much lighter in a few thousand, maybe even a few hundred years.

Erm.... it did. Quite significantly so. It turned European culture into what it is today.

Bullshit.

Why? You were the one going on about skin colour, an ouward attribute influenced exclusively by the amount of sunlight the respective habitat receives on average.
Yes, if Arabs and Africans come to live in Europe, they will turn very much lighter in a few thousand, maybe even a few hundred years.

What about their different bone structure, and hair fibre, and eye colour, will that change as well?

What if twohundred million chinese moved into Europe, would they become red/blonde'brown haired blue/green eyed white people too?
Just because of the colder climate?

Bullshit.

The Renaissance was influenced by the Arab world, just as much as it was by the ideas off the Antique. And would you seriously doubt that the ideas of the Renaissance, breaking with the theoligical tradition and structures of the Middle Ages and paving the way for the Enlightenment, determined European thought and culture today?

A lot of great ideas came, but that hardly makes up awhole change of culture.
You'd be surprised. Humanism and Enlightenment came pretty much directly from what the Arabs had preserved from the Elder Days.

What about their different bone structure, and hair fibre, and eye colour, will that change as well?

What if twohundred million chinese moved into Europe, would they become red/blonde'brown haired blue/green eyed white people too?
Just because of the colder climate?

It has NOTHING to do with temperature, as I pointed out earlier. If melatonin is nor longer required in large amounts to protect from UV radiation, the skin will cease to produce those large amounts. Evolution works slowly, but yes, the end result are fair-skinned, light-eyed, and - due to the temperature this time - tall individuals.
Do you need me to explain why they will be taller?

[QUOTE=Jjimjja]FOR FUCK SAKE!!!
what colour are arabs anyway?

Brown.

If we were to put you, an arab and a chinaman next to each other and asked someone from africa to point out the difference, he'd probably think we all liked alike.

I doupt it. :rolleyes:

What is this fixeation with being pasty white/pink?

What is your fixation for having room in your heart for every colour in the world, except white?

what did you get picked on by black kids when you were younger?

Sometimes, but we picked on them too, and two of my best friends were black.

what is your aversion to other skin tones?

None inquisitor, but what is your aversion to a pure white race?
You would have no problem with any other race being pure I bet.

Trust me, if somebody came here claiming the black race has to be protected from becoming lighter every day, he would get the exact same arguments.

Bullshit.Don't tell me you still ride around on horseback (without stirrups). Do you use paper? What about the 0? Are you familiar with the 0? Or Arab numerals? How about taking baths? What about forks? Do you use forks? Do you know anything about Greek philosophy? Homer? The Illiad? The Odyssey?

It has NOTHING to do with temperature, as I pointed out earlier. If melatonin is nor longer required in large amounts to protect from UV radiation, the skin will cease to produce those large amounts. Evolution works slowly, but yes, the end result are fair-skinned, light-eyed, and - due to the temperature this time - tall individuals.
Do you need me to explain why they will be taller?

So why are the innuit eskimos in a cold climate, but havent developed white characteristics, such as red/blonde hair, light coloured skin, taller bodies, blue/green eyes, they have stayed pretty much the same since we met them, but in a previous post you said the Arabs adjusting to the colder climate of Europe would become white like within a few hundred years, roughly the same time we have known the innuits.

with the low birth rates and all i think its just a drout.. and i also think when the kids of this low birth rate grow up theres going to be a baby boom, so i say no

Don't tell me you still ride around on horseback (without stirrups). Do you use paper? What about the 0? Are you familiar with the 0? Or Arab numerals? How about taking baths? What about forks? Do you use forks? Do you know anything about Greek philosophy? Homer? The Illiad? The Odyssey?

Wow do you mean to say no one ever bathed before the Arabs came along?
I seem to remember the Ancient Romans... :rolleyes:

Paper, also was being used by European cultures as well as the Arabs, Eygpt and Greece were using it, papyrus.

The stirrups came from the mongols, not the Arabs.

We adapted the O... wow.

We adapted our fork from a prong to the Arab one..wow

Homer the Illiad, Ancient greek mate not Arab.

European civilisation is based on alot more than just afew arab contributions.

So why are the innuit eskimos in a cold climate, but havent developed white characteristics, such as red/blonde hair, light coloured skin, taller bodies, blue/green eyes, they have stayed pretty much the same since we met them, but in a previous post you said the Arabs adjusting to the colder climate of Europe would become white like within a few hundred years, roughly the same time we have known the innuits.

Again, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the temperature.

Melathonin (which is the stuff in your skin that will turn it dark, or, in your case, give you a tan) is needed to protect skin from an overdose of UV radiation (that's that stuff coming for the sun).
So, if you live in a climate with more sun, like Africa, or like Greenland which has dry, continental climate, your skin will need higher level of melathonin to protect itself. If it doesn't have that, you're more likely to die of skin cancer.
If you live in a maritime climate, such as Europe, with considerably less sun, you skin won't need the melathonin and therefore grow lighter.

Simple, really.

Trust me, if somebody came here claiming the black race has to be protected from becoming lighter every day, he would get the exact same arguments.

Why not just leave the races as they are?
Is diversity so ugly to you?
You would rather have the same mud man running around everywhere? How unimaginative and dull.

European civilisation is based on alot more than just afew arab contributions.
a) You're not European.
b) If you were, you would have nothing to do with the Romans or the Greeks. They are not modern Europeans, racially or culturally.
c) The zero is the basis for all of mathematics. Want to see maths without the zero? Look at Roman numerals.
d) Most of ancient Greek knowledge was lost in Europe and only preserved in the Arab world. When the crusades ended and both started trading, those lost secrets came back, majorly influencing the following Renaissance.

[QUOTE]

Brown.
I doupt it. :rolleyes:
What is your fixation for having room in your heart for every colour in the world, except white?
Sometimes, but we picked on them too, and two of my best friends were black.
None inquisitor, but what is your aversion to a pure white race?
You would have no problem with any other race being pure I bet.

At what point did i show preferance to one race over the other? please specify the post where i said this.

I care nothing for peoples idea of 'pure' race. Generally their just xenophobes and nothing more. and for someone that believes that europe should remain white, what about those 'best' friends of yours? they should be deported or must not be allowed to breed with anyone who is not the same race as them?

Oh yes and if know so much about white races, answer an earlier question i made, about what race you are. And don't just say celtic. Be more specific please oh Connoisseur

Again, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the temperature.
Melathonin (which is the stuff in your skin that will turn it dark, or, in your case, give you a tan) is needed to protect skin from an overdose of UV radiation (that's that stuff coming for the sun).
So, if you live in a climate with more sun, like Africa, or like Greenland which has dry, continental climate, your skin will need higher level of melathonin to protect itself. If it doesn't have that, you're more likely to die of skin cancer.
If you live in a maritime climate, such as Europe, with considerably less sun, you skin won't need the melathonin and therefore grow lighter.
Simple, really.

You still havent explained the innuits, they dont have the white characteristics from living in a colder climate.
Also there have been black people living in Britain for years, how come their not getting lighter?

You would rather have the same mud man running around everywhere? How unimaginative and dull.
That's the ultimate consequence of technology and globalisation.

That's the ultimate consequence of technology and globalisation.

Whys that?

You still havent explained the innuits, they dont have the white characteristics from living in a colder climate.
It's not about it being COLD. In the Arctic, there is a lot of UV Radiation.

Whys that?
Because there are no longer any physical boundaries between countries. As everyone travels, and everyone mates with everyone, just like with dogs, you get back to the same genes.
Don't think you can stop it with politics. There is planes now, they are worth more than any law.

You still havent explained the innuits, they dont have the white characteristics from living in a colder climate.
Also there have been black people living in Britain for years, how come their not getting lighter?

And again.... temperature doesn't have anything to do with it. Nothing. At all. Ok?

The innuit have darker skin because Northern Canada and Greenland get more intense sun/more radiation than Europe. In winter time, the sunlight and radiation get reflected by the ice, thus even increasing the intensity.

Yes, if black people lived in Britain for several hundre years, their skin would become lighter.
You don't seem to fully comprehend the concept of evolution, do you? Survival of the fittest and all that?

You still havent explained the innuits, they dont have the white characteristics from living in a colder climate.
Also there have been black people living in Britain for years, how come their not getting lighter?

NOT DUE TO HEAT.

DUE TO LEVEL OF LIGHT.

is it easier to understand with capitals?

[QUOTE=Jjimjja][QUOTE=Gessler]
At what point did i show preferance to one race over the other? please specify the post where i said this.

You seem to have some kind of hatred for me wanting only white people, or the continuing majority of makeup in the population of Europe.

I care nothing for peoples idea of 'pure' race. Generally their just xenophobes and nothing more.

Your label is only that, a label to denigrate people who want their race to remain the same.
Your just a pc thug, nothing more.



and for someone that believes that europe should remain white, what about those 'best' friends of yours? they should be deported or must not be allowed to breed with anyone who is not the same race as them?

Childhood friends, I have lost touch with them along time ago.
And yes, keep the races apart in their homelands at least.
Your great melting pot is just an ugly mix, with no individual racial beauty.
It may surprise you, but I dont hate other races, just the idea that we all blend together to become one day indistinctive.


Oh yes and if know so much about white races, answer an earlier question i made, about what race you are. And don't just say celtic. Be more specific please oh Connoisseur

Celtic Irish stock.

Originally Posted by Gessler
You would rather have the same mud man running around everywhere? How unimaginative and dull.


Skin colour has nothing to do with genetic diverstity.
In East Africa, there is more genetic diversity than anywhere else on this planet. For example, two black people of East African origin living next to each other can be mor genetically different than you would be from an Asian or an Australian Aborigine.

Wow do you mean to say no one ever bathed before the Arabs came along?
I seem to remember the Ancient Romans... :rolleyes: The Europeans certainly didn't. Bathing wasn't done often, it only became popular after the dark ages, in which a lot of things from the Roman times were forgotten. The sense of hygiene got imported by the semitic cultures.

Paper, also was being used by European cultures as well as the Arabs, Eygpt and Greece were using it, papyrus.But it happens to be a Chinese invention. Needless to say, it wasn't European to begin with. European culture got influenced.

The stirrups came from the mongols, not the Arabs.
And what part of Europe are the Mongols from?

We adapted the O... wow.
Not the O, the 0. The Romans had no concept of 0. I also don't see you using roman numerals.

We adapted our fork from a prong to the Arab one..wow
Appreciate it the next time you eat spaghetti. Or would you rather use your hands and knife, as that would be traditionally European?

Homer the Illiad, Ancient greek mate not Arab.
That's good. You heard of them then. If it hadn't been for the Arabic copies that survived, you wouldn't have. Same goes for most of Greek philosophical works. The only surviving copies were the ones in Arab libraries.

European civilisation is based on alot more than just afew arab contributions.True, it's based on contributions from a lot of other places, like Mongolia for instance.

Skin colour has nothing to do with genetic diverstity.
In East Africa, there is more genetic diversity than anywhere else on this planet. For example, two black people of East African origin living next to each other can be mor genetically different than you would be from an Asian or an Australian Aborigine.

Sorry but thats aload of crap, listen to yourself, two black men are more different from each other than an Asian and me.

Arabs gave us 10.

Europe should become a Catholic Powerhouse again.

Sorry but thats aload of crap, listen to yourself, two black men are more different from each other than an Asian and me.
They can very well be. Look at an Australian Aboriginal person and a Zulu. They are both black, yet they are massively more different than you are from an Arab.
It's all about how long ago they split from each other.

[QUOTE=Laerod]The Europeans certainly didn't. Bathing wasn't done often, it only became popular after the dark ages, in which a lot of things from the Roman times were forgotten. The sense of hygiene got imported by the semitic cultures.

Would you bathe much if the only water you got was freezing cold, and the weather was also mostly cold?


And what part of Europe are the Mongols from?

Not Arabia, which is where you originally stated all great contributions to European culture came from.


Not the O, the 0. The Romans had no concept of 0. I also don't see you using roman numerals.

I use them sometimes.

Appreciate it the next time you eat spaghetti. Or would you rather use your hands and knife, as that would be traditionally European?

A lot of Europeans used a sharp knife and a prong, which is a fork without the middle bit.

That's good. You heard of them then. If it hadn't been for the Arabic copies that survived, you wouldn't have. Same goes for most of Greek philosophical works. The only surviving copies were the ones in Arab libraries.

The Arabs passed it on then, not created it, which you implied.

True, it's based on contributions from a lot of other places, like Mongolia for instance.

But not it seems from its own people, you seem intent on saying basically that white people are incapable of contributing anything worthwhile to their own cultures?

Sorry but thats aload of crap, listen to yourself, two black men are more different from each other than an Asian and me.
There was a thread about genetic origins a while ago. Turns out, most of European genetic material is mixed.

Sorry but thats aload of crap, listen to yourself, two black men are more different from each other than an Asian and me.

Feel free to read up on genetic diversity in humanity:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/01/990125073157.htm

They can very well be. Look at an Australian Aboriginal person and a Zulu. They are both black, yet they are massively more different than you are from an Arab.
It's all about how long ago they split from each other.

No, I would see amuch greater similarity between an aboriginal and a zulu, than between me and them.
They would too.

There was a thread about genetic origins a while ago. Turns out, most of European genetic material is mixed.

Yes, but not to the extremes you guys are preposing.

No, I would see amuch greater similarity between an aboriginal and a zulu, than between me and them.
They would too.

How closely do you think dolphins are related to fish?

Just because outward appearances are similar doesn't mean that there is a close genetic relation...

No, I would see amuch greater similarity between an aboriginal and a zulu, than between me and them.
They would too.
Now you're being stupid. There is more racial and genetic difference between them. How are you going to declare that invalid?

You seem to have some kind of hatred for me wanting only white people, or the continuing majority of makeup in the population of Europe.


Again where did i say this? please SPECIFY.


Your label is only that, a label to denigrate people who want their race to remain the same.
Your just a pc thug, nothing more.


no. it is a definition

xen·o·phobe ( P ) Pronunciation Key (zn-fb, zn-)
n.
A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples.

Seems to apply no?


Childhood friends, I have lost touch with them along time ago.
And yes, keep the races apart in their homelands at least.
Your great melting pot is just an ugly mix, with no individual racial beauty.
It may surprise you, but I dont hate other races, just the idea that we all blend together to become one day indistinctive.


indistinctive? what like all people of the same race tend to look alike. THEY TEND TO LOOK DIFFERENT WHEN THERE IS A MIX

Celtic Irish stock.

For someone that says they know so much about white races, i was expecting a bit more detail. I mean if you or your ancestors were from Ireland, you should know the Ireland is made up of more than celtic stock. sheesh at least prove that you know what your talking about :rolleyes:

NOT DUE TO HEAT.
DUE TO LEVEL OF LIGHT.
is it easier to understand with capitals?

Bull - fucking - shit. :rolleyes:
You would believe any crap you hear.
White people have been in one of the most harshest places on Earth for UV rays for over two hundred years, but strangely we arent turning into aboriginals, and our kids are still being born pink with blue eyes and blonde hair.
Your light theorys are only that, theorys Jimmy jim jar and Cabra.

...in one of the most harshest places on Earth for UV rays for over two hundred years...
But it isn't.
And "our theories" are actual science. It's called anthropology. You should learn about it some time.

Bull - fucking - shit. :rolleyes:
You would believe any crap you hear.
White people have been in one of the most harshest places on Earth for UV rays for over two hundred years, but strangely we arent turning into aboriginals, and our kids are still being born pink with blue eyes and blonde hair.
Your light theorys are only that, theorys Jimmy jim jar and Cabra.

Care to name just one such place with high UV radiation?

But it isn't.
And "our theories" are actual science. It's called anthropology. You should learn about it some time.

Add a little genetics and microbiology, while you're at it. And some geography and history wouldn't do any harm either.

I know I'm a latecomer to this thread, but Europe began dying in 1776. :)

JK ;)

Add a little genetics and microbiology, while you're at it. And some geography and history wouldn't do any harm either.

and time. can't expect large changes in a handful a generations

[QUOTE=Jjimjja]Again where did i say this? please SPECIFY.
It just comes from your attitude jimmy jim jar...



no. it is a definition
xen·o·phobe ( P ) Pronunciation Key (zn-fb, zn-)
n.
A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoplesSeems to apply no?

Is there a dictionary definition for pc thug? Because that is what you are.


indistinctive? what like all people of the same race tend to look alike. THEY TEND TO LOOK DIFFERENT WHEN THERE IS A MIX

You just dont get it do you?


For someone that says they know so much about white races, i was expecting a bit more detail. I mean if you or your ancestors were from Ireland, you should know the Ireland is made up of more than celtic stock. sheesh at least prove that you know what your talking about :rolleyes:

Ireland is predominantly Celtic stock, of course there have been major influxes over history from certain events, Vikings settling during invasions etc.
Are you suggesting other races have sprung up in Ireland through history noone else seems to have heard of?

I dont think europe is dying, I dont understand why you think this.

Ireland is predominantly Celtic stock, of course there have been major influxes over history from certain events, Vikings settling during invasions etc.
Are you suggesting other races have sprung up in Ireland through history noone else seems to have heard of?

Picts, French, Danish, traders from all over Europe and the Mediterranean

Nowadays Asians, Eastern Europeans, Spanish, Italian, German, African.

when i had biology we learned about these charts that have a list of characteristics & then pictures. we had to connect them.. dont know what they're called but it seems a person or two need one of em.

Celtic Irish Stock


For someone that says they know so much about white races, i was expecting a bit more detail. I mean if you or your ancestors were from Ireland, you should know the Ireland is made up of more than celtic stock. sheesh at least prove that you know what your talking about :rolleyes:


Ok I'm Irish.

Do you know we have a group of people that have been reffered to as the "black Irish"?

When the Spanish Armada tried to Invade Britain and was smashed up on western Irish coasts by storms, a lot of our good fellow Catholics (cause the wars and alliances were mostly prefaced by religion at the time) decided to stay in Ireland and set up camp. That's why there's a distinct sallowness that runs through a lot of bloodlines and families in the west. They are locally referred to as the "black Irish" (so much for PC values in those days - and these people only looked latino)

Personally - the black irish are only a fragment of my heritage,
I also have Anglo-norman, French and Viking genes, yet I'm as Irish as they come. I'm a red head too.

So My country's race is really a mix of earlier races, most from nearby countries.

So really it's a continuum as to what constitutes the "Irish" stock. As for what constituted the Spanish stock that provided a welcome injection of new genes into the population a few hundred years ago, well no doubt they had the Moors living among them and warring with them, SO of course there'd be interbreeding there. The Spanish were a race made up of a continuum of older races from the greater area including Northern Africa. And I'm pretty sure you couldn't call these Morrocans "white", and yet their genes have been pased down to make up what is a definitive Irish bloodline.

My grandmother was one of the "Black Irish" and so it's in my ancestry and I'm proud of my Black roots! :D

Damn, I left out the Spanish on my list. I knew I had forgotten some ;)

[QUOTE=Jjimjja]you cannot expect large changes in 10 generations.

There dont seem to have been even slight changes yet jimmy jim jar.



Are you naturally this thick or does it take practice?

I see myself as far more intelligent than you could possibly ever be, lacking details of certain areas of knowlege, doent make on thick, indeed this is how we learn, I just dont believe your theorys on races altering dramatically due to climate changes, not as fast as you would make out anyway.
Also being rude to people over the net doesnt do much for your own intelligence, not to mention how gutless you look.

I believe europe is doing very well, all we need to do is get everyone to jion the euro

[QUOTE]
It just comes from your attitude jimmy jim jar...
Is there a dictionary definition for pc thug? Because that is what you are.
You just dont get it do you?
Ireland is predominantly Celtic stock, of course there have been major influxes over history from certain events, Vikings settling during invasions etc.
Are you suggesting other races have sprung up in Ireland through history noone else seems to have heard of?

So your making an assumption. clever that. Read the words its safer, and your less likely to be seen as below par.
Why am i a pc thug? because i'm not anti-immigration? wow, just wow.
no, don't seem to. if you wish to elaborate, i'm more than happy to read.
Ireland is a mix of angle, saxon, frankish, roman, visigoth, celtic stock.
again no. assuming again. read words, safer

Picts, French, Danish, traders from all over Europe and the Mediterranean
Nowadays Asians, Eastern Europeans, Spanish, Italian, German, African.

And do you really think they will be Irish?
What you are today as Irish, is a makeup of whats come before you, a larger different racial mix in the future would create a different kind of Irishperson, nothing like you are now.

I see myself as far more intelligent than you could possibly ever be, lacking details of certain areas of knowlege, doent make on thick, indeed this is how we learn, I just dont believe your theorys on races altering dramatically due to climate changes, not as fast as you would make out anyway.


Then, how do you suppose races develop? If the people had turned white while still in Africa, surely there would be white tribes there now? Remnants of those who went to Europe?

Ok I'm Irish.

Do you know we have a group of people that have been reffered to as the "black Irish"?

When the Spanish Armada tried to Invade Britain and was smashed up on western Irish coasts by storms, a lot of our good fellow Catholics (cause the wars and alliances were mostly prefaced by religion at the time) decided to stay in Ireland and set up camp. That's why there's a distinct sallowness that runs through a lot of bloodlines and families in the west. They are locally referred to as the "black Irish" (so much for PC values in those days - and these people only looked latino)

Personally - the black irish are only a fragment of my heritage,
I also have Anglo-norman, French and Viking genes, yet I'm as Irish as they come. I'm a red head too.

So My country's race is really a mix of earlier races, most from nearby countries.

So really it's a continuum as to what constitutes the "Irish" stock. As for what constituted the Spanish stock that provided a welcome injection of new genes into the population a few hundred years ago, well no doubt they had the Moors living among them and warring with them, SO of course there'd be interbreeding there. The Spanish were a race made up of a continuum of older races from the greater area including Northern Africa. And I'm pretty sure you couldn't call these Morrocans "white", and yet their genes have been pased down to make up what is a definitive Irish bloodline.

My grandmother was one of the "Black Irish" and so it's in my ancestry and I'm proud of my Black roots! :D

thank you. this post i like. good info

[QUOTE]

There dont seem to have been even slight changes yet jimmy jim jar.

I see myself as far more intelligent than you could possibly ever be, lacking details of certain areas of knowlege, doent make on thick, indeed this is how we learn, I just dont believe your theorys on races altering dramatically due to climate changes, not as fast as you would make out anyway.
Also being rude to people over the net doesnt do much for your own intelligence, not to mention how gutless you look.

yet you take the piss out of my name.
Not showing much of your intelligence either. :p

And do you really think they will be Irish?
What you are today as Irish, is a makeup of whats come before you, a larger different racial mix in the future would create a different kind of Irishperson, nothing like you are now.

Well, considering that the Irish today are made up from Celts, French, Norwegians, Danish, Picts, Brits and Spanish, and they turned out all right, why not continue the mixture?

I know I'm a latecomer to this thread, but Europe began dying in 1776.

Care to explain?

There was a thread about genetic origins a while ago. Turns out, most of European genetic material is mixed.

Most of it... yeah right.


And Jjimjja what is your point?

[QUOTE=Gessler]

So your making an assumption. clever that. Read the words its safer, and your less likely to be seen as below par.
Why am i a pc thug? because i'm not anti-immigration? wow, just wow.
no, don't seem to. if you wish to elaborate, i'm more than happy to read.
Ireland is a mix of angle, saxon, frankish, roman, visigoth, celtic stock.
again no. assuming again. read words, safer

Im putting you on the ignore mate, you have nothing really to offer, at least the other guys on here will be pleasant despite us disagreeing, alot, however all of your posts to me so far are full of nothing but rubbish and personal attacks, despite me going out of my way to be civil and polite to you.
Your nothing but a nasty little turd, so Im flushing you for good.

[QUOTE]

There dont seem to have been even slight changes yet jimmy jim jar.

I see myself as far more intelligent than you could possibly ever be, lacking details of certain areas of knowlege, doent make on thick, indeed this is how we learn, I just dont believe your theorys on races altering dramatically due to climate changes, not as fast as you would make out anyway.
Also being rude to people over the net doesnt do much for your own intelligence, not to mention how gutless you look.

agreed. But saying everyone else is wrong on the same topic because you don't think they are, does.
Oh and its not my theory, i can just see the logic in what some more informed people on this thread have said.
And everyone here has supplied links to back themselves up, except for you it appears. If you can defend yourseld with concrete information, i'm sure people would read the info and concede the point. so why don't you?

Care to explain?



Most of it... yeah right.


And Jjimjja what is your point?

regarding?

...I just dont believe your theorys on races altering dramatically due to climate changes, not as fast as you would make out anyway...
I'll try one last time:
They are not our theories. They are scientific, and generally accepted theories of anthropology, supported by other sciences, such as genealogy (sp?), biology, history, sociology etc
The colour of your skin is determined by the UV radiation that you get. That happens over time. All humans were initially black, since they all initially came from Africa. In some areas they turned white, in others they turned more "red" or "yellow".
Other characteristics take longer to shine through, such as Chinese people's eyes being shaped differently. I'm not sure how they came about, but I would put my money on random mutation.
Just as happens when you put different races of dogs together, after a few generations they revert back to an "original dog" like a Dingo, or the various wild dogs in India and Africa. The same happens with Humans. Since it is likely that people can travel all over the planet and meet with people of other races, that is likely to happen sooner or later.
Races change over time, just as cultures do. Europe will not die, not if we all become Muslims, or if we all turn black. It will change, that's all. It has changed many times before.
And finally: There is no uniform European culture anyways. While Britain may be less influenced by Arabs, Spain is moreso. While Spain may be less influenced by Asian Nomads, the Ukraine is moreso. And so on.

Your fears are unfounded, apart from the matter that you are on the other side of the globe, and really have no reason to fear Turkish or Pakistani immigrants into Germany or Britain.

[QUOTE=Jjimjja]

Im putting you on the ignore mate, you have nothing really to offer, at least the other guys on here will be pleasant despite us disagreeing, alot, however all of your posts to me so far are full of nothing but rubbish and personal attacks, despite me going out of my way to be civil and polite to you.
Your nothing but a nasty little turd, so Im flushing you for good.

1 attack which i deleted. and your insulting again. tut tut. did not someone comment about how insults show lack of inteligence?

I know I'm a latecomer to this thread, but Europe began dying in 1776.
Care to explain?



Well, he's either referring to the abolishion of torture and death penalty for witchcraft in Austria, the Battle of Prague with Frederic of Prussia triumphing over the Austrian army, or the American declaration of indepedence :D

And do you really think they will be Irish?
What you are today as Irish, is a makeup of whats come before you, a larger different racial mix in the future would create a different kind of Irishperson, nothing like you are now.

Wait what do you mean by Irish - the "Diaspora" (the emigrants and their descendants) or the current people living on the isle, and are you referring to their genetic make up or their national identity.

Would you bathe much if the only water you got was freezing cold, and the weather was also mostly cold?That wasn't the reason. Maybe you should do some research on the topic and then come back at me.

Not Arabia, which is where you originally stated all great contributions to European culture came from.No I didn't. Leonstein did. And most of what was reintroduced during the renaissance was obtained from Arab libraries because the European Christians had gotten rid of what had survived the dark ages.

A lot of Europeans used a sharp knife and a prong, which is a fork without the middle bit.Yeah, the ones that couldn't afford the nice Italian forks. Up until then, they used knives or hands.

The Arabs passed it on then, not created it, which you implied.
I never implied that they created it. I implied that they contributed it to European culture, which passing things on to is.

But not it seems from its own people, you seem intent on saying basically that white people are incapable of contributing anything worthwhile to their own cultures?Not at all. I'm saying people like copying what they think is cool, like stirrups, pants, fashion, cd players... In case you haven't noticed, "white" culture is dominating the world today and is the biggest influence. Cultures tend to stagnate if there is no outward influence. This goes for any culture. We influenced other cultures quite a bit too.

"In case you haven't noticed, "white" culture is dominating the world today and is the biggest influence. "

incase you haven't noticed, white people are trying to be black.

"In case you haven't noticed, "white" culture is dominating the world today and is the biggest influence. "

incase you haven't noticed, white people are trying to be black.I'm looking at it from a global sense. I'm sorry if I insulted you, but I don't like the terms I used there either. It's easy to see that American and European culture got imprinted all over the world during the colonial era and is still being implanted in many places. I don't think it's necessarily a good thing, but it is reality.

im against the spread of american culture.. i dont even like it and im american.. its no good

im against the spread of american culture.. i dont even like it and im american.. its no goodIt pisses me off when German products and tv stations try to be hip by seeming American... and I find little Britney wannabees in Nepal slightly scary too... :p

"America is a covert dictatership of Europe, its a human experiment where new things are tested on the population and those that make money are exported around the world."

David Icke

*gives david hasslehoff to germany*

american culture is hip? thought most of the world hated us..

*gives david hasslehoff to germany*


the sad thing is i think they be happy :confused:

the sad thing is i think they be happy :confused:
Nah :p Baywatch reruns only happen on Kabel 1, and that's the channel on which only old series and movies get shown. :D

Nah :p Baywatch reruns only happen on Kabel 1, and that's the channel on which only old series and movies get shown. :D

The Hoff run in shorts :eek: Nooooooooooooooooo

And yet noone mentions the fact the the Hoff is doing very well performing on the London west end!!!


ANyways back to the topic is Europe dying out and if so in what sense?

Here's a good phrase:
Is cultural change = Cultural death?

Forget this sorry, sorry topic already! Let's talk about Hoff in the 'Knight Rider'... please...

And yet noone mentions the fact the the Hoff is doing very well performing on the London west end!!!


ANyways back to the topic is Europe dying out and if so in what sense?

Here's a good phrase:
Is cultural change = Cultural death?

metamorphosis.

I ask you are Europe dying? I have seen such discussions on other forums, so you might have had this before. With birth rates as the ones we have now the population will be dropping. And you have the inevitable fact that we will be losing ground to countries such as China in the economical front. But what do you people say true or not?
I don't think so. The birth rate will eventually stabalize and a smaller population doesn't necessesarily mean a smaller impact on the world stage, particularly with the increase in technological solutions to any problems a smaller workforce might imply.

Given the human propensity to breed at a rather alarming rate under most circumstances, it's highly unlikely that the following scenario would play out in Europe or anywhere else:

"What factors contribute to the extinction of a population? In what researchers have called the "extinction vortex", the genetic diversity of a natural population is increasingly diminished by a feedback loop of genetic consequences that may eventually drive the population extinct. It starts when the habitat of a large, healthy population is fragmented into smaller pockets. This leaves a number of smaller subpopulations. Genetic drift can play a role in randomly eliminating genetic variants, but inbreeding depression also takes its toll. Inbreeding is a type of nonrandom mating in which individuals mate with close relatives. In populations that are kept small over a period of generations, inbreeding is inevitable, and it has the effect of increasing the proportion of individuals that are homozygous for recessive deleterious alleles. These homozygotes are less fit than the population average, and more likely to be eliminated by natural selection. The result is inbreeding depression, a decrease in the average fitness of the population. As selection culls the less fit individuals, the size of the population further shrinks, and the problems of genetic drift, inbreeding, and natural selection are magnified. The population spirals into extinction."

Although Europe may become a patchwork of small pockets of populations sharing common genetic characteristics, they would in no sense be isolated.

There are obvious social consequences for such a scenario, but those will also tend to fade over time.

Is cultural change = Cultural death?If it was, then European culture is long gone. We eat with forks now, not just our hands :D

what i find interesting, is european culture is probably the one culture that won't die out.

Leaving globalisation out for a minute. What about the aggressive colonisation of the Americas and Oceania? They took european culture with them and have kept it. and through them further influenced other part of the world.

what i find interesting, is european culture is probably the one culture that won't die out.

Leaving globalisation out for a minute. What about the aggressive colonisation of the Americas and Oceania? They took european culture with them and have kept it. and through them further influenced other part of the world.

Like Roman culture... to far spread to die out, it simply merged with existing cultures to create new cultures

Like Roman culture... to far spread to die out, it simply merged with existing cultures to create new cultures

pretty much yeah.
But more than that. Look at the US/Canada/australia/mexico/etc... they are pretty much extensions of european cultures. They may have other influences as well but it is predominantly europe.

also what is this fear about everyone looking the same? Logically would not people with a more diverse background be less likely to look alike?

Culturally nowhere dies short of the extermination of it's entire population. European culture has always been evolving, why else do you think Britain's national dish is the Chicken Tikka Masala?

Economically we are in a period of slow growth. Oh dear. Any system that requires constant growth is horrible IMO but we are still going fine. Our importance in the world fluctuates, we know this, we are o longer at the centre but one day the US will not be either. So?


Agreed!

Population, power and influence have been in flux throughout history - we went from the Mediterranean to Rome to Europe and currently America - and through all of this time there continued to be strong and vital cultures in Asia. This flux is normal and I believe vital to global development - and I'm hoping that eventually we will be able to form some sort of world affiliation that will incorporate the best of each of these "empires" to the benefit of all.

[QUOTE=Leonstein]I'll try one last time:
They are not our theories. They are scientific, and generally accepted theories of anthropology, supported by other sciences, such as genealogy (sp?), biology, history, sociology etc
The colour of your skin is determined by the UV radiation that you get. That happens over time. All humans were initially black, since they all initially came from Africa. In some areas they turned white, in others they turned more "red" or "yellow".

So you do you think that if we (hypothetically) were able to place the whole human race in say Europe for a few thousand years, that they would, according to your theory, all start to become white?


Other characteristics take longer to shine through, such as Chinese people's eyes being shaped differently. I'm not sure how they came about, but I would put my money on random mutation.

I want solid proof, not what you would put your money on.


Races change over time, just as cultures do. Europe will not die, not if we all become Muslims, or if we all turn black. It will change, that's all. It has changed many times before.

Of course Europe wont die, but its present cultural makeup, one that is mostly white will, which I think is sad, as it probably the most interesting cultural makeup anywhere.


Your fears are unfounded, apart from the matter that you are on the other side of the globe, and really have no reason to fear Turkish or Pakistani immigrants into Germany or Britain.

I know I dont have to fear, not so much because we are along way from the middle east compared to Europe, but because our government didnt cave into UN pressure like yours did, to except hundreds of thousands of middle easterners and blacks fleeing their countrys like yours did.
Tell me you have nothing to fear(that is if your white, which I'm starting to doupt) when the majority of your countrys racial make up is middle eastern not white, don't expect the same kind treatment back either.
PC white people are digging their own chidrens graves.

Wait what do you mean by Irish - the "Diaspora" (the emigrants and their descendants) or the current people living on the isle, and are you referring to their genetic make up or their national identity.

Im referring to the average white Irish person to be blunt.

such as Chinese people's eyes being shaped differently. I'm not sure how they came about, but I would put my money on random mutation.


Leonstein,

Reflection of light into eyes. slant eyes reduce that.

So you do you think that if we (hypothetically) were able to place the whole human race in say Europe for a few thousand years, that they would, according to your theory, all start to become white?


They would. And they would grow taller, as well.


Of course Europe wont die, but its present cultural makeup, one that is mostly white will, which I think is sad, as it probably the most interesting cultural makeup anywhere.

What makes you think that Europe's culture is in any way related to the skin colour of its inhabitants? :confused:




I know I dont have to fear, not so much because we are along way from the middle east compared to Europe, but because our government didnt cave into UN pressure like yours did, to except hundreds of thousands of middle easterners and blacks fleeing their countrys like yours did.
Tell me you have nothing to fear(that is if your white, which I'm starting to doupt) when the majority of your countrys racial make up is middle eastern not white, don't expect the same kind treatment back either.
PC white people are digging their own chidrens graves.

"Be fair but don't expect fairness in return", that's how I try to live. And, funny you should mention, but many of those countries that are now in political turmoil willingly accepted refugees coming from Germany during the Nazi era....

Gessler dude, please read carefully these few following sentences:

Skin colour has absolutely NOTHING to do with culture. Neighbouring cultures, enviroment, climate, ways of getting their food and such make the difference.
There is no such thing as white culture. Western, or European (meaning the Western Europe) cultures are of course different of Arabic or Chinese, but that is not because of the skin. Easiest way to prove this is to place a black, east asian or middle east fellow in to American, Finnish or Spanish family. Having same level of education and growing without facing any serious racism, he will produce and develope that "white culture" just as weel as his native-born comrade.
Therefore I see no reason to fear that my kids or grandchilds have different level of melatonin. They'll be just as fine as my (unfortunately, I'm afraid :rolleyes: ) white grandparents were.

So you do you think that if we (hypothetically) were able to place the whole human race in say Europe for a few thousand years, that they would, according to your theory, all start to become white?
I don't say anything. Scientists say: Yes, that is indeed what would happen.

I want solid proof, not what you would put your money on.
See Aryavartha's (sp?) comment.
And this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_colour

Of course Europe wont die, but its present cultural makeup, one that is mostly white will, which I think is sad, as it probably the most interesting cultural makeup anywhere.
I just think you don't know enough about other cultures.

...(that is if your white, which I'm starting to doupt)...
I'm not white. I'm pink. And when the sun is shining, then I go red.

Good wikipedia article, but just one thing I need to clarify with people here cause there's been a lot of loose uses of words which probably shouldn't be used so loosely.

1 RACE does not equal CULTURE especially not in today's globalised world.

2 EVOLUTION is a process not some predetermined goal. It has no "magic hyper intelligent human" end to it. It merely is a process of adaptation to the environment that is fuelled by those not adapted, dying and not passing on their genes.

Black people when transplanted to Europe will not die before they pass one their genes because of vitamin D deficiency - if they need to they'll take Vit D supplements. Ergo no selective disadvantage in being black

Likewise white people living in Africa will take a greater amount of folic acid.

For the intent of skin colour changing, in today's world, evolution of black Europeans to a whiter skin colour, will not occur.

And a second point about evolution is that even if there was selective advantage in changing skin colour (i.e. if our medical knowledge was in the dark ages) this would still take tens to hundreds of thousands of years or more, depending on how strong the selective pressure was. But in the region of a hundred years as I've heard some people talk about is rubbish.

snip

True. The wikipedia article talked about changing skin tone thousands of years.
But that was back then. These days if someone has a deficiency, they take a vitamin tablet, so it does not appear that black will become white and vice versa.

in the past we evolved because of changes in our surroundings (more or less). Now that we control our surroundings will we still evolve?

True. The wikipedia article talked about changing skin tone thousands of years.
But that was back then. These days if someone has a deficiency, they take a vitamin tablet, so it does not appear that black will become white and vice versa.

Michael Jackson. :D

I ask you are Europe dying? I have seen such discussions on other forums, so you might have had this before. With birth rates as the ones we have now the population will be dropping. And you have the inevitable fact that we will be losing ground to countries such as China in the economical front. But what do you people say true or not?
The lower the birth rate of a country, the better it goes economic-wise.

The lower the birth rate of a country, the better it goes economic-wise.

Not necessarily... I'd much rather live in the US than half of these countries, and would you really rather live in Georgia than Canada (10.84 births/1000, not on the top 20 list.)

Rank Country Birth rate(births/1,000 population)
1 Germany 8.45
2 Lithuania 8.49
3 Latvia 8.87
4 Slovenia 8.90
5 Austria 8.90
6 Italy 9.05
7 Czech Republic 9.10
8 Andorra 9.32
9 Monaco 9.36
10 Croatia 9.51
11 Japan 9.56
12 Russia 9.62
13 Singapore 9.63
14 Bulgaria 9.65
15 Greece 9.73
16 Hungary 9.77
17 Estonia 9.79
18 Switzerland 9.83
19 Malta 10.09
20 Georgia 10.10

Europe going kaput?

Man that's so off the wall; dunno where that really came from.

Anyway, just cuz you see a couple of charts and hear some stuff on the news doesn't mean you should start thinking a whole continent's worth of people is gonna die soon. Like whoever said it, they got through the black plague. Also, yea it's also off the wall, but Europe got through all those wars it's ever had whether we're talking about WW2 - Roman Imperialism. Even Napoleon didn't slaughter EVERYBODY in Europe.

Egypt, China, Native Americans, yada yada yada. You name it, they've lived for thousands of years. What your asking here is like asking when is the world going to live under a single government? Chances are it's going to happen, but unless something drastic like a meteor impacts the Earth or aliens or crickets or apes take over the planet, it won't happen in our lifetimes to say the least.

So Europe might have a 1 in a million chance of dying out over the next million years and Europe might no longer have a likewise chance at influencing Human development in the same time period, but what your asking is along the lines of what turns mathematicians into numerologists. Your putting coincidental and statistically likely occurances together and coming up with 2+2=4. Keep your scientific and experiential observations seperate and you'll see quite clearly that even considering Europe being wiped out is ridiculous.

:headbang:

in the past we evolved because of changes in our surroundings (more or less). Now that we control our surroundings will we still evolve?

A very good question indeed.

This it what I have wondered, too, and would also like to hear opinions. I don't actually have my own at the moment, due to my lack of knowledge on the issue (a factor that has very little to no effect on some fellows, Mr.Gessler beeing propably the best example.. :rolleyes: ).

[QUOTE=Madnestan]
Skin colour has absolutely NOTHING to do with culture.

Bollocks. It has everything to do with it.

Neighbouring cultures, enviroment, climate, ways of getting their food and such make the difference.

Racial type is a much bigger factor, how you people could dismiss this, and say your intelligent, which I don't argue, just reeks of nothing but pc fear and paranoia.





There is no such thing as white culture.

Now that is a racist statement.

Western, or European (meaning the Western Europe) cultures are of course different of Arabic or Chinese, but that is not because of the skin. Easiest way to prove this is to place a black, east asian or middle east fellow in to American, Finnish or Spanish family. Having same level of education and growing without facing any serious racism, he will produce and develope that "white culture" just as weel as his native-born comrade.

Of course, because you are placing him in an enviroment that is overwhelmingly white, and provided that the person is a child, he/she will of course growup being like his/her peers.
But if half those people in the same country were the same skin colour as him /her, then he/she would naturally gravitate to these people, their mannerisms, values, idiosyncrisistys(sp) instead.
In you dismissing white people as not even worthy of having a culture now, by using your theory, I could say theres no such thing as Chinese culture, by using a white person growing up in China, with Chinese language, mannerisms, love of their food etc, because you say skin has nothing to do with culture.
I'd say from your theorys, that you are a self loathing white person, bought up on a steady diet of kowtowing and apologetic cringing behaviour to members of other races, from fear drummed into you by society of being careful not to appear 'racist' and no encouragement to feel proud of your own skin colour.

I'd say from your theorys, that you are a self loathing white person, bought up on a steady diet of kowtowing and apologetic cringing behaviour to members of other races, from fear drummed into you by society of being careful not to appear 'racist' and no encouragement to feel proud of your own skin colour.
What exactly have you done that you can be proud of? What exactly did you achieve?

And by the way: Chinese is not a race like Caucasians are, Chinese is a nationality. You might as well start making up a German Race, a French Race and a British Race.

And what do you say to my wiki-link?

A very good question indeed.

This it what I have wondered, too, and would also like to hear opinions. I don't actually have my own at the moment, due to my lack of knowledge on the issue (a factor that has very little to no effect on some fellows, Mr.Gessler beeing propably the best example.. :rolleyes: ).

I find this guys question interesting, but we dont really control any enviroment for long, especially natural ones, the tsunami in Asia being agood example, of how powerless we really are.

You might as well start making up a German Race,
It's been done...

[QUOTE=Leonstein]What exactly have you done that you can be proud of? What exactly did you achieve?

Gee this sounds like 'how dare you feel proud to be white!'
Speaking for myself, Ive done alot of hard work in my life, so that I guess.


And by the way: Chinese is not a race like Caucasians are, Chinese is a nationality. You might as well start making up a German Race, a French Race and a British Race.

Asian then.

[QUOTE=Saudbany]Europe going kaput?
Man that's so off the wall; dunno where that really came from.

Declining white birth rates, rising middle eastern ones ones, just simple logic really.


Anyway, just cuz you see a couple of charts and hear some stuff on the news doesn't mean you should start thinking a whole continent's worth of people is gonna die soon.

Not soon, but definitely on current differring birth rates between white and middle eastern people, rate of middle eastern immigration, I'd say there will be enough of a dangerous mass within the next fifty to a hundred years, for any remaining white people to flee.

Like whoever said it, they got through the black plague. Also, yea it's also off the wall, but Europe got through all those wars it's ever had whether we're talking about WW2 - Roman Imperialism. Even Napoleon didn't slaughter EVERYBODY in Europe.

The only reason we got through all these past disasters, was because of our high birth rates, unfortunately thanks to feminism and white peoples love affair with consumerism and material riches over children, we wont get past this one, unless theres a drastic turn around soon in thinking.

So Europe might have a 1 in a million chance of dying out over the next million years and Europe might no longer have a likewise chance at influencing Human development in the same time period, but what your asking is along the lines of what turns mathematicians into numerologists. Your putting coincidental and statistically likely occurances together and coming up with 2+2=4. Keep your scientific and experiential observations seperate and you'll see quite clearly that even considering Europe being wiped out is ridiculous.

You just dont get it, do you.

The lower the birth rate of a country, the better it goes economic-wise.

Rubbish. You need a high birth rate for a sucessful continuing economy, by high I mean at least between two and three.

Actually there were some statistics given in Forbes a few months back that that Germany is expected to experience a population decline of 25% by 2040.

How? Right now the population is stable...but there is a huge bulge of baby boom babies that will all expire at about the same time. The birth rate is very low, so there are no replacements and there are not good mechanisms for integrating immigrants.

Much of Europe right now is ANTI-immigrant...hence the " No" vote on the European Constitution and the perpetual fear that Turkey will enter the league.

So...no babies...no immigrants...and a bunch of old people. With the big government social systems somebody will have to pay the tax bill to take care of these retirees. But guess what? There aren't enough young people to do it.

Bad times ahead unless changes are made now.

[QUOTE=Leonstein
I just think you don't know enough about other cultures.

I know enough, to prefer white culture over them.

I'm not white. I'm pink. And when the sun is shining, then I go red.

Your white. You go red from sunburn because your white.
You say not white because your skin is pink, go up to a lighter coloured negro and tell him hes not black, because his skin colour isnt like black boot polish.

Gessler, I wonder if you have any idea about how stupid you sound, yalling that I'm a racist at first and screaming that I'm too afraid to be considered a racist. To be hones, you are the one sounding a nazi pseudo-scientific here.

You didn't understand what I said about white culture. There is no white culture, but there are neither any black of yeallow cultures. I wonder what in that is so hard for you. Aren't Russians white? And aren't Greeks white, too? Are you seriously saying that these have somehow more in common than Russians and Mongols, or Greeks and Turks, hmm? People, groups of people that is, have formed different cultures. Not races.

The placing-the-kid-example was also misunderstood, in purpose I think.
Of course culture makes a person different of what he would grow up in a different culture, but its not because of the race (=genes), it's because of the environment. It's just that simple.

Th.ere are no real differences between the mental capabilities between black, brown, pink, yellow, orange or blue people. This is a simple, scientific fact.
Please accept it, so that we can, finally, move on.

PS. You have no clue, whatsoever, about my personality, age, home country or race, neither is it none of your business, so cut the bulshit please, and consentrate on the discussion, not those taking part of it by trying to insult.

EDIT: Heh, Turks and Greks are propably the worst possible example, but what the heck, even I do mistakes.

I think that you can't really talk about white culture as being a single entity, much as you'd like to in order to marshall "white identity".
The truth is that there is no such thing as "white culture", as to try and lump all the different cultures of the white peoples into one entity would be foolhardy and a distortion of the fact that shared skin colour does not mean shared culture.
Try telling an Irish Unionist that he's part of the same culture as the Pope, see how far that gets you.

[QUOTE=Deinstag]Actually there were some statistics given in Forbes a few months back that that Germany is expected to experience a population decline of 25% by 2040.

Due to low white birth rates.

How? Right now the population is stable...but there is a huge bulge of baby boom babies that will all expire at about the same time. The birth rate is very low, so there are no replacements and there are not good mechanisms for integrating immigrants.

The baby boomers are responsible for every social mess and nightmare, that is ruining our societys now, they are also the last generation that were bought up properly, yet despite this, they passed nothing worth of value on to us.

Much of Europe right now is ANTI-immigrant...hence the " No" vote on the European Constitution and the perpetual fear that Turkey will enter the league.

Good to hear, Europe is finally waking up to the problem, I wonder if its too late but.
Turkey should not be allowed to enter either, its not part of Europe, its in the middle east.


So...no babies...no immigrants...and a bunch of old people. With the big government social systems somebody will have to pay the tax bill to take care of these retirees. But guess what? There aren't enough young people to do it.

This is why feminism is so wrong for our society, and will have to gotten rid of, the feminist propaganda encourages us to rely for to long on outside sources of people to make up the slack, a very self centred attitude, that cares only about their own well being and not the greater good of their countrys.


Bad times ahead unless changes are made now.

Big changes that have to be bought in whether the libertarians like it or not.
If they want to protest and get violent, then meet violence with violence and overcome them, once their all dead or fleeing their sick twisted views will mean little.

ignore that i didn't see the previous post, sorry

[QUOTE=Madnestan]Gessler, I wonder if you have any idea about how stupid you sound, yalling that I'm a racist at first and screaming that I'm too afraid to be considered a racist. To be hones, you are the one sounding a nazi pseudo-scientific here.

Relax, Im not screaming at you, I think your over dramatising this for the sake of your own arguement.
You and others like you sound very fearful to say anything positive about white people or white culture, and even go to the lengths to decalre that either doesnt even exist.


You didn't understand what I said about white culture. There is no white culture, but there is neither any black of yeallow culture neither.

By white culture I mean the different caucasian ethnic groups.


I wonder what in that is so hard for you. Aren't Russians white? And aren't Greeks white, too? Are you seriously saying that these have somehow more in common than Russians and Mongols, or Greeks and Turks, hmm? People, groups of people that is, have formed different cultures. Not races.

Of course, their skin colour unites them on that basis, I admit unfortunately that this of course has never stopped them from warring on each other.

But nevertheless a white Russian and a white German will see each other as having much more in common, than with a Negro or Asian, or Middle eastener.


There are no real differences between the mental capabilities between black, brown, pink, yellow, orange or blue people. This is a simple, scientific fact.
Please accept it, so that we can, finally, move on.

So explain why white culture became so advanced in all ways over the last few thousand years, particularly the last 500, and other cultures particularly black, fell so far behind.
The middle east didnt fall as far behind, mostly because of their close proximity to Europe and its ideas during and after the renaissence(sp)

And yes I know the Arabs have contributed alot to the knowlege of the world, as have the Chinese, but you have to admit, there was a huge gap between white civilisation and others by the beginning of the 20thC.




PS. You have no clue, whatsoever, about my personality, age, home country or race, neither is it none of your business,

Why hide it but?

so cut the bulshit please, and consentrate on the discussion, not those taking part of it by trying to insult.

lmao compared to some on here, Ive been very civil.
I guess an unlimited ticket to be allowed to be rude on here to people, unquestioned, requires you to be pc.

Good to hear, Europe is finally waking up to the problem, I wonder if its too late but.
Turkey should not be allowed to enter either, its not part of Europe, its in the middle east.

Turkey shouldn't be allowed to join, but if it does Britain will have hopefully left by then.

[QUOTE=Grand Britannium]I think that you can't really talk about white culture as being a single entity, much as you'd like to in order to marshall "white identity".

Its a race made up of different white cultures, a single entity, divided up within itself, as every other race is.

Your white. You go red from sunburn because your white.
You say not white because your skin is pink, go up to a lighter coloured negro and tell him hes not black, because his skin colour isnt like black boot polish.
:rolleyes:
Can't you understand a little joke?

I just don't take skin colour serious at all.

Gee this sounds like 'how dare you feel proud to be white!'
Speaking for myself, Ive done alot of hard work in my life, so that I guess.
And is that hard work due to your "whiteness"?

It's been done...
Well, strictly speaking it wasn't a German Race, it was a Aryan, Germanic Race. It included Scandinavians, Brits and so on.

Turkey shouldn't be allowed to join, but if it does Britain will have hopefully left by then.

This immigration issue is either going to unite Europe, or divide it against itself which is what Bin Laden wants.
If half of Europe like very liberal Belgium and France, Spain and Britain etc dont address the danger of loosing their own idenity soon, then they will loose it for ever.
Which brings me to terrorism, why on Earth are the terrorists, educated men like Bin Laden digging their own graves, with destruction, they could easily just accept that continuing middle eastern immigration into Europe plus declining white birth rate, would see them take over Europe within a hundred years peacefully.
The answer could be one simply of satisfying their egos, to go down in history, a rewritten muslim one as men of note.

[QUOTE=Leonstein]:rolleyes:
Can't you understand a little joke?

I dont see this as a place for humour, the issues are too serious.


I just don't take skin colour serious at all.

Then you dont take yourself that seriously either.

If half of Europe like very liberal Belgium and France, Spain and Britain etc dont address the danger of loosing their own idenity soon, then they will loose it for ever.

So true. But the EU itself is also part of the problem.

they could easily just accept that continuing middle eastern immigration into Europe plus declining white birth rate, would see them take over Europe within a hundred years peacefully.


That coupled with appeasement of radical Mulsims (in Britain at least) and gradually ensuring that Islam becomes more influential.

And is that hard work due to your "whiteness"?

Of course not, but you asked what have I done to be proud of.

I dont see this as a place for humour, the issues are too serious.
I'm so glad you care so much about my culture, but let that be my issue and worry about your own problems, like Australian culture being swallowed up by the Yanks.

Then you dont take yourself that seriously either.
Now you finally understood!

So...
You've all made up your minds.
Europe is not dying, European culture is an "unbreakable Atom", Turkey should not enter Europe, we are not "assimilating" immigrants quickly enough.
Just a few questions:
1. What is Europe but a collective of nations that have been on each others throats for millenia. And, yes, we are more advanced now, right? Anyone remember Yugoslavia?
2. Turkey should not enter because... Let's see... They eat kebabs, have a darker color and pray to Allah. As if having a lighter skin, eating fish'n'chips and praying to Christ/Jehoba really makes THE difference. Small note- I'm Greek I should be all against Turkey entering the EU. But not because... they are "bloody Turks"
3. "Assimilating"??? What's that? Are Britons "assimilated" when they move to Hong Kong? Kuwait? Why should we expect people from a foreign/different culture to be "assimilated"?

Oh, one more thing:
"European Culture"??? PLEASE! There is no such thing! There's Greek culture, Italian culture, French culture, *hell* British culture. But there is no "European culture"!!!

Black fell so far behind because Europeans enslaved Africa, and crushed those quite very civilized cultures in the West African coast. Millions of people were draft from their homes to work as slaves in the New World, and even after that they were hardly oppressed to the 60's and '70s. Africa was forced to start from basically nothing, and therefore it's no wonder that they are now so poor and fucked with all those endless wars and such. Africa is having her Dark Age, and I find it rather easy to see affinities between it and the European one.

Your statements about Middle East beeing in the level as it currently is because it has been so close to europe is mostly true, but not because of the reason you give to it. No, it was also colonized by UK and France. Colonization by those 2 has means the same as the end of all development, as they didn't give much effort in education or such in their colonies.

Now, pardon me, I have to let this rather boring conversation and go to bed.
Have fun.

What is Europe but a collective of nations that have been on each others throats for millenia. And, yes, we are more advanced now, right? Anyone remember Yugoslavia?
I see it more than anything as a glorious idea...the EU I mean.
Europe as a whole is a group of people who have hopefully learned something out of those 2000 years, although sometimes that could still be doubted.

Turkey should not enter because... Let's see... They eat kebabs, have a darker color and pray to Allah. As if having a lighter skin, eating fish'n'chips and praying to Christ/Jehoba really makes THE difference. Small note- I'm Greek I should be all against Turkey entering the EU. But not because... they are "bloody Turks"
Turkey should not enter the EU because
a) they don't have a very good Human Rights Record
b) they have too many semi-subsistence farmers who would currently need to be subsidised.
c) there would be a lot of trouble because Turkey is different from other European nations culturally. You can't deny that.
d) The EU constitution failed, and so we're left with an ungovernable morass for some time. Having Turkey join into that would do more harm than good, probably to both.

"Assimilating"??? What's that? Are Britons "assimilated" when they move to Hong Kong? Kuwait? Why should we expect people from a foreign/different culture to be "assimilated"?
Because then we can get along better. I'm in favour of helping immigrants integrate (rather than assimilate) with language courses etc

"European Culture"??? PLEASE! There is no such thing! There's Greek culture, Italian culture, French culture, *hell*, British culture. But there is no "European culture"!!!
There are certain common artifacts and beliefs that could describe a "European Culture". You shouldn't dismiss those.

[QUOTE=Conservative England]So true. But the EU itself is also part of the problem.

Its not the the idea of a united Europe I have a problem with, its the reliance it has on foriegn immigration from Africa and the middle east, to prop up its economy, because young caucasians see that kind of work as now mostly beneath them.
Ask most young caucasians what he/she wants to do with his/her life and alot of them will say university, there is too much focus now on higher learning with our young people, which is an unstable balance.


That coupled with appeasement of radical Mulsims (in Britain at least) and gradually ensuring that Islam becomes more influential.

Austarlia is becoming the same, we just removed the Christian prayer from the Ambulance books, as it was worried it may offend other religons. :rolleyes:
This seems to be a one way street here, how long until they start banning Christian churches?
Like all insidious things, it starts off small, to gain acceptance and eventually goes for its ultimate target.
White people are in danger of loosing the right to even have their own religon.
This is why I have a huge problem with pc, because it seems to be aimed at the destruction of white identity, if a muslim can say he's offended by Christmas decorations down at his local mall, and be taken seriously, then I should be allowed to voice my opinion against some un christian religous festival, as it offends me. This is where you hit the truth, under pc you have no rights to complain if your white, especially if your a white male. Your protests will be met with the usual 'but you already have all the rights, you are white, male, you are on top of everyone else.'
If thats so, then why arent my complaints taken as seriously as everyone elses then?
The answer is because Im white.

[QUOTE=Madnestan]Black fell so far behind because Europeans enslaved Africa, and crushed those quite very civilized cultures in the West African coast.

They were being enslaved by Arabs long before the Europeans got down there, they were also enslaving each other quite abit too, and actively participating in selling off rival tribes to the Arabs, dont leave that one out.
These west African civilisations wiuldnt have been crushed if they had been as advanced as the European or even Arab ones.


Millions of people were draft from their homes to work as slaves in the New World, and even after that they were hardly oppressed to the 60's and '70s. Africa was forced to start from basically nothing, and therefore it's no wonder that they are now so poor and fucked with all those endless wars and such. Africa is having her Dark Age, and I find it rather easy to see affinities between it and the European one.

Africa has always been in a dark age, the continent is probably the most bloodthirsty in history, and probably always will be.
You want to blame all their ills on Europe, even though you leave out the Arab one, look also at her own people, they have been enslaving and decimating each other from ancient times to Rwanda.



Your statements about Middle East beeing in the level as it currently is because it has been so close to europe is mostly true, but not because of the reason you give to it. No, it was also colonized by UK and France. Colonization by those 2 has means the same as the end of all development, as they didn't give much effort in education or such in their colonies.

I wont argue that white expansion into Africa has had its ill effects, but its all basically about greed.
And this isnt limited to white people, the blacks in Africa were just as greedy in consumming rival tribes possessions, reducing them to slaves etc as the whites and Arabs were when they came to Africa, the Blacks of course seeing that the foriegners werent just after their rivals land and wealth, but after theirs as well, fought back, and sometimes sucessfully.
But they were beaten by superior technology, ideas and tactics.





Now, pardon me, I have to let this rather boring conversation and go to bed.
Have fun.

This speaks volumes for your character, or lack of.

I see it more than anything as a glorious idea...the EU I mean.
Europe as a whole is a group of people who have hopefully learned something out of those 2000 years, although sometimes that could still be doubted.
We haven't learned anything of value. Even if each nation has one (or more than one ;)) millenia of history. Again, may I remind you of Yugoslavia. We made a mess out of a civil war, left it to the US who, as usual, made a bigger mess out of it!

Turkey should not enter the EU because
a) they don't have a very good Human Rights Record
b) they have too many semi-subsistence farmers who would currently need to be subsidised.
c) there would be a lot of trouble because Turkey is different from other European nations culturally. You can't deny that.
d) The EU constitution failed, and so we're left with an ungovernable morass for some time. Having Turkey join into that would do more harm than good, probably to both.
a) True
b) Shouldn't we be spending more money on R&D rather than subsidies for agricutlure? Is there a single European who sees Europe's future in cultivating tomatoes?
c) I do deny it. I think that Turkish culture (as an amalgamate of cultures) is much closer to southern Europe than.. say... the Norwegian culture. Or the Latvian/Esthonian/Lithuanian culture. (I mean no disrespect for the aforementioned nations, of course)
d) Right... But what's the Constitution got to do with Turkey? If you say that those who voted 'No' had Turkey in mind... then democracy has failed! If you are just saying that it is cirmustantial then why did Europe let Poland enter? Or Cyprus?

Because then we can get along better. I'm in favour of helping immigrants integrate (rather than assimilate) with language courses etcTrue, I just caught the word "assimilate" from a previous post. I find the whole notion of "assimilation" as hypocritical... to say the least!

There are certain common artifacts and beliefs that could describe a "European Culture". You shouldn't dismiss those.I do. Artifacts like what? The Holy Grail? Beliefs like what? Jesus? Don't forget that cultures are not born or prevail within a century. Honestly, even if I would have more things to share/debate with a person from Iceland, I do feel more "at ease" with a person from Turkey... Well... OK, at least the West side/coast of Turkey.

"European Culture"??? PLEASE! There is no such thing! There's Greek culture, Italian culture, French culture, *hell*, British culture. But there is no "European culture"!!!

That is the European culture!!!!

That is the European culture!!!!
No

Note: I wrote a few hundred words and you replied with five. My reply consists of a single word. Try to beat it... please...

[QUOTE=Leonstein]I'm so glad you care so much about my culture, but let that be my issue and worry about your own problems, like Australian culture being swallowed up by the Yanks.

Its my issue too, if white culture in Europe dies our, then its a good sign that mine in Australia could face the same danger too, should I rely on a Britain one day as one of my countrys allies, if it is predominantly middle eastern?
I somehow doupt it.


Now you finally understood!

You dont take yourself seriously?
That means you let everybody walk all over you.

No
Note: I wrote a few hundred words and you replied with five. My reply consists of a single word. Try to beat it... please...

I only replied to that last one because of how ridiculous it sounded.

I only replied to that last one because of how ridiculous it sounded.
I really don't want to sound hostile...
BUT
"ridiculous"
And you're backing that up with... ehm... what?
Would you care to elaborate?
Have you ever been to any of these countries?

We haven't learned anything of value. Even if each nation has one (or more than one ;)) millenia of history. Again, may I remind you of Yugoslavia. We made a mess out of a civil war, left it to the US who, as usual, made a bigger mess out of it!
Agreed, we could have reacted better. But at least Germany did learn something, and that is that war is never an acceptable alternative. Which is why you couldn't expect us to go down there and bomb everyone.

a) True
b) Shouldn't we be spending more money on R&D rather than subsidies for agricutlure? Is there a single European who sees Europe's future in cultivating tomatoes?
c) I do deny it. I think that Turkish culture (as an amalgamate of cultures) is much more close to southern Europe than.. say... the Norwegian culture. Or the Latvian/Esthonian/Lithuanian culture. (I mean no disrespect for the aforementioned nations, of course)
d) Right... But what's the Constitution got to do with Turkey? If you say that those who voted 'No' had Turkey in mind... then democracy has failed!

b) That's my opinion. I reckon we should drop all import quotas and tariffs as well as subsidies. Watch Africa get up, watch the Americans fall into Anarchy (Bush said if we'd do it, they would too) and save billions. And get rid of the UK Rebate for crying out loud!
b) Okay, you've got a point. The only problem is when Turkish nationalists or more radical Islamists, which both exist there as political parties, make bad decisions. Taking in a big country like Turkey would naturally give them a lot of power.
d) Democracy has failed either way. Those that voted "no" had no idea what they were voting for, they didn't vote on the constitution but their sorry fear of Polish people.

I do. Artifacts like what? The Holy Grail? Beliefs like what? Jesus? Don't forget that cultures are not born or prevail within a century.
Sorry, a bit of Uni-Talk there. Artifacts are just physical representations of European culture. I don't know about you, but when I see the Eiffel Tower, I don't look at it as a French thing, but as a European thing.
And we all have the same roots anyways (at least France, Britain and Germany). We share the same experiences and the same history. We "belong" together, so to speak.

Its my issue too, if white culture in Europe dies our, then its a good sign that mine in Australia could face the same danger too, should I rely on a Britain one day as one of my countrys allies, if it is predominantly middle eastern?
I somehow doupt it.
It's "doubt", and maybe you are forgetting your language already. Careful there.
Do you think that Middle Eastern Culture would replace European Culture? That's naive. It's never happened in history. If anything it would be a mix.

You dont take yourself seriously?
That means you let everybody walk all over you.
Everyone except you.

More interesting Statistics (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lif_not_pro_of_the_nat)

Leonstein,
I agree with (almost) everything you say in your last post.
Two small notes:
I'm not really sure what Germany has learned from their total failure in supporting the hasty breakdown of Yugoslavia. I'm really not sure what France or GB will do in the next crisis either! And seeing the Eiffel, or Big Ben, or the Parthenon as European monuments doesn't help... unfortunately.
------------------------
Turkey is a huge country. Comprised of many "peoples". Many cultures, many ethnic groups, many "nations".
Putting them all "in one frying pot" (as a Greek AND Turkish saying goes) is wrong!

May I suggest a trip to Constantinople (Istanbul) whenever you get the chance. Walk around the European side and the cross the straits to the Asain side. Try to leave the tourist paths on both sides... Then you will understand ;)

Do you think that Middle Eastern Culture would replace European Culture? That's naive. It's never happened in history.

<devil's advocate>
Christianity
</devil's advocate>

-snip-
Well, as far as people and cultures are concerned, I don't care. There is huge numbers of Turks in Germany, and I had plenty of Turkish friends.
Problem there is that there is a distinct lack of integration, especially of the older generation. It's almost as if they create their own little communities and seal it off from all the "German-ness" ( :p ) around it.

I just see it as a huge political challenge, and before I support Turkey joining, I would like to see the EU stabilise for a while. We can't just carry on piling everything on.

<devil's advocate>
Christianity
</devil's advocate>
Religion is not that big a factor. It's not like the immigrants who come to Europe are that fanatical and would want to change politics with their religion.
There are a few outliers, but they are cancelled out by the millions of Muslims who don't practice seriously at all.

Well, as far as people and cultures are concerned, I don't care. There is huge numbers of Turks in Germany, and I had plenty of Turkish friends.
Problem there is that there is a distinct lack of integration, especially of the older generation. It's almost as if they create their own little communities and seal it off from all the "German-ness" ( :p ) around it.

I just see it as a huge political challenge, and before I support Turkey joining, I would like to see the EU stabilise for a while. We can't just carry on piling everything on.
I agree! The same (perhaps to a lesser extend) is true for Greeks in Germany. But the 2nd,3rd generation immigrants, are more at ease in Germany than they would ever be in Turkey (or Greece!)!
I also agree with your reservations on the ever-exapding EU.l I would prefer if we could have a working Constitution (and a working EU parliament while we're at it) way before even accepting ten new nations in the union!
But it would appear that decisions if the utmost importance are not made on any democratic/socialist basis.

In this respect, MY Europe is, unfortunately dying... Although I don't really believe it has EVER lived ;)

Religion is not that big a factor. It's not like the immigrants who come to Europe are that fanatical and would want to change politics with their religion.
There are a few outliers, but they are cancelled out by the millions of Muslims who don't practice seriously at all.

Rubbish. The millions of muslims take their faith and their mullahs alot more seriously, than Whites take the Christian faith in Europe. Faith unites people like nothing else.

Rubbish. The millions of muslims take their faith and their mullahs alot more seriously, than Whites take the Christian faith in Europe. Faith unites people like nothing else.
Gessler, please think before you speak. Have you been there? Have you ever met a Muslim living in Europe?
I lived there for 16 years, and I have not once met one who even bothered to pray as they are supposed to.
What you see on TV are those outliers I was talking about.

Rubbish. The millions of muslims take their faith and their mullahs alot more seriously, than Whites take the Christian faith in Europe. Faith unites people like nothing else.

Correction: It unites stupid people like nothing else.

It also causes more wars than anything else (see: "stupid people").

<devil's advocate>
Christianity
</devil's advocate>

Christianity, replaced the present faiths, mostly of worship of multiple Gods, or nature, but the point you fail to see, is that it didnt replace the people.

Rubbish. The millions of muslims take their faith and their mullahs alot more seriously, than Whites take the Christian faith in Europe. Faith unites people like nothing else.
"Religion is the opium of the poor" someone once said.
Faith is never a cause for unison, it's always a tool.

And I'm really not sure if the average muslim in London thinks of Allah more seriously or intensely than Geroge Bush & Co does for JC.

Christianity, replaced the present faiths, mostly of worship of multiple Gods, or nature, but the point you fail to see, is that it didnt replace the people.

Funny, because you wish to replace people...

...I mean... Kill millions, just because their skin is darker.

[QUOTE=Potaria]Correction: It unites stupid people like nothing else.

It also unites and takes over countrys from people too stupid to unite against it.


It also causes more wars than anything else (see: "stupid people").

Actually greed does that,more than religon.
Religon unites people mostly, and greedy rich people use the outcome of this for their own gains.

Christianity, replaced the present faiths, mostly of worship of multiple Gods, or nature, but the point you fail to see, is that it didnt replace the people.
Sorry, I fail to see how Islam replaced the people, while Christianity didn't.
But I dare say that you have no clue as to what Islam is, apart from what the Fox network tells you it is.

[QUOTE]

It also unites and takes over countrys from people too stupid to unite against it.




Actually greed does that,more than religon.
Religon unites people mostly, and greedy rich people use the outcome of this for their own gains.

No, it unites and takes over countries from people who are too ill-equipped to defend against it (except for the Crusades).

Greed and religion go hand-in-hand, really.

But I dare say that you have no clue as to what Islam is, apart from what the Fox network tells you it is.
He doesn't. But he's not from the US, so I don't think he can watch Fox.

I'd put my money on Channel 9? Hey Gessler?
Murdoch forever!

[QUOTE=Potaria]Funny, because you wish to replace people...

Not replace them, just stop them from replacing us.

...I mean... Kill millions, just because their skin is darker.

You can also tell them to leave under the threat of death, and give them adequet time and help to do so, the onus is on them to make the next decision, if they fail to comply, then they are asking for war, and of course then killing, widespread if there is heavy resistance, or little if there is then hopefully compliance, is unfortunately necessary.

Well depends what part of Europe but I disagree Europe is not dying. I have been to Europe alot of times now and it seems to get better and better in the U N

You can also tell them to leave under the threat of death, and give them adequet time and help to do so, the onus is on them to make the next decision, if they fail to comply, then they are asking for war, and of course then killing, widespread if there is heavy resistance, or little if there is then hopefully compliance, is unfortunately necessary.
Right...
You are not thinking of countries like Iraq, Iran, Pakistan or Afghanistan by any chance, are you?
It would be a bit impractical to force "them" out, wouldn't it?

But we, Caucasians, COULD force them out of Europe, North America and Australia, right?
Then what?
Move on to remove other races like Asians, Africans...
And when we remove all of them, our children, with a birth rate of 1.2 per couple (not counting people who are gay- we would have removed them anyway), will work 32 hours per day just to pay for our pensions!

Grand plan! :headbang:

Gessler, please think before you speak. Have you been there? Have you ever met a Muslim living in Europe?
I lived there for 16 years, and I have not once met one who even bothered to pray as they are supposed to.
What you see on TV are those outliers I was talking about.

I do think Leonstein, but just not along the so called 'open minded' but actually weak silly and incredibly naive pc views you run your life on.
Like the vast majority of the left, the main problem is you just don't have a shred of commonsense.
And while you may have lived in Europe, I doupt you had that much to do with the muslims there, if below is anything to go by.
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20050701faessay84409/robert-s-leiken/europe-s-angry-muslims.html?mode=print

This one below has some good stuff about the big rise in anti semitism in Europe, surprisingly led by guess who, Middle eastern immigrants and their offspring.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/032604europe.asp

The truth is here below, that Islam while being embraced by weak naive white pc lovers as part of multicultralism, and western society, the Islamic faith wants none in return, and the exact opposite.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05192/536250.stm

http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives/102299/102299a.htm

...if below is anything to go by.
It's not.

You have lost all credibility when you started talking about mass killings to preserve the white race.

[QUOTE=Yiapap]Right...

Exactly right, unless you wish to see Europe totally overrun with muslims.


You are not thinking of countries like Iraq, Iran, Pakistan or Afghanistan by any chance, are you?

No.



But we, Caucasians, COULD force them out of Europe, North America and Australia, right?
Yes, now easily, in future it could get impossible.


Then what?
Move on to remove other races like Asians, Africans...
And when we remove all of them, our children, with a birth rate of 1.2 per couple (not counting people who are gay- we would have removed them anyway), will work 32 hours per day just to pay for our pensions!

No, unlike the Muslim faith which seems to have no idea what living with other peoples and faiths is about, Im not advocating removing middle easterners just because their middle easterners, but because they are a danger.
The simple problem of raising our own birthrates to at least replacing ourselves, is to remove all feminist ideology, and teaching, along with misplaced values that encourage homosexuality to spread.


Grand plan! :headbang:

I know, and one that the right must implement soon, whether people like it or not.
It would only take a small dedicated %, backed by the government in each western country, to get the ball rolling the right way again, no pun intended.
But it has to be soon.

It's not.
You have lost all credibility when you started talking about mass killings to preserve the white race.

Interesting that you left out the rest of what I said to prevent this from happenng, and you want to talk about credibility?

Interesting that you left out the rest of what I said to prevent this from happenng, and you want to talk about credibility?
"Christian World News"? Thank you, but I'll stick to proper information.

I told you that there are outliers, and you give me examples? Awesome.
And again I'm telling you that the vast majority of Muslims in Europe are not like those outliers, and that I have never met a Muslim in Germany who actually bothered praying five times a day like they're supposed to.

I find it ridiculous that you try to tell me what Muslims in Europe are like, when I am obviously in a vastly superior position to know.

The simple problem of raising our own birthrates to at least replacing ourselves, is to remove all feminist ideology, and teaching, along with misplaced values that encourage homosexuality to spread.

It would only take a small dedicated %, backed by the government in each western country, to get the ball rolling the right way again, no pun intended.
But it has to be soon.
And since none of this is ever going to happen, at least in the foreseable future, you could/should start amassing all the explosives you can.
When you finally accept that your government and all western "democracies" have been overrun by muslims, may I suggest, take all the explosives and blow up the Australian FBI-equivalent building in the Australian Oclahoma-equivalent city.

I have no doupt that you can really do it!
After all... muslims do it all the time! Who will notice?

[QUOTE=Leonstein]"Christian World News"? Thank you, but I'll stick to proper information.

So your saying you wont accept any Christian source, even if its information is correct?
This shows incredible ignorance on your part, not to mention being very biased.
What about below? I suppose their not good enough for you either? Is anything, that agrees with my opinion and not your dumb and rapidly loosing credibility and out of date pc ones?


http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20050701faessay84409/robert-s-leiken/europe-s-angry-muslims.html?mode=print
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05192/536250.stm




I told you that there are outliers, and you give me examples? Awesome.
And again I'm telling you that the vast majority of Muslims in Europe are not like those outliers, and that I have never met a Muslim in Germany who actually bothered praying five times a day like they're supposed to.

And how many muslims did you meet?
The point Im trying to get through to you, is that they dont necessarily have to except all muslim facets in life, like praying five times a day for instance, just not accept ours, or indeed us.


I find it ridiculous that you try to tell me what Muslims in Europe are like, when I am obviously in a vastly superior position to know.

I think you only want to know about, what looks nice and safe to you.
Anyway, like you said being in Europe you are in probably the best position to soon find out how wrong you actually are.
Please post me when you realise this, so I can have the satisfaction of saying, I told you so.

And how many muslims did you meet?
Over the years of school, football clubs, discos, community parties, shopping centres...
Many dozens, kids and parents.

Over the years of school, football clubs, discos, community parties, shopping centres...
Many dozens, kids and parents.

Just because you met them doesnt mean you really know them, also they may have been abit more friendlier when you were growing up, because of pc views not being as strong then, that encourage no assimilation and put up barriers between different races and cultures.
I would seriously doupt that a white person growing up soon will have as much to do with muslims as you did.

Gessler, what the hell is your problem? You make it as if you know all about the world, yet judging by your posts, you probably haven't been outside your state/province, or possibly even your town.

Get a clue.

[QUOTE=Yiapap]And since none of this is ever going to happen, at least in the foreseable future, you could/should start amassing all the explosives you can.

There is alot more proof in current trends that this will happen, than in proof that it wont.


When you finally accept that your government and all western "democracies" have been overrun by muslims, may I suggest, take all the explosives and blow up the Australian FBI-equivalent building in the Australian Oclahoma-equivalent city.

If it ever got to that point, there would be no 'ASIO' building to even blow up. :rolleyes:


I have no doupt that you can really do it!

Since I dont have any training in this, I disagree.


After all... muslims do it all the time! Who will notice?

And they get shot for it too...

Gessler, what the hell is your problem? You make it as if you know all about the world, yet judging by your posts, you probably haven't been outside your state/province, or possibly even your town.
Get a clue.

lmao you need to get the clue.
The best scenario I can find for you and others like you, is that your like a lobster that is cooked to death by putting it in water that is slowly warmed up, by the time it boils its too late.
Even middle easterners are saying, when are Christians( this generally means white people) going to wake up?
I know more about the world situation than you, because I use logic, a truth, which overrides any pc bullshit you swear by.

"PC bullshit"?

Read any of my posts, and tell my I'm anywhere close to being "politically correct".

As a wise man once said: Get your head out of your ass.

"PC bullshit"?

Read any of my posts, and tell my I'm anywhere close to being "politically correct".

As a wise man once said: Get your head out of your ass.

You should listen to that wise man, because yours is well and truly past your own sphincter.
By just denying a muslim threat exists in Europe, you are being pc.

Just because you met them doesnt mean you really know them, also they may have been abit more friendlier when you were growing up, because of pc views not being as strong then, that encourage no assimilation and put up barriers between different races and cultures.
I would seriously doupt that a white person growing up soon will have as much to do with muslims as you did.
And it's still spelled "doubt". If I were you, I'd be rather embarrassed that someone with a different language is obviously more proficient in writing English.

My "PC" views (and I have a strong suspicion that you have no idea what it means to be "politically correct") have always been there. It's an essential part of being German that you are tought to be civil and tolerant from Primary School onwards.

I had three good friends, all Turks, with whom I have been to family vacations and so on. They never did anything "Muslim", anything that may have been foreign. Their mothers wore the hejab, as did one guy's sister. That's all.

And for the rest of your post...you need to check your grammar, cuz I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say.

[QUOTE=Leonstein]And it's still spelled "doubt". If I were you, I'd be rather embarrassed that someone with a different language is obviously more proficient in writing English.

It was just a typo. And it doesnt bother me in the least if you are more proficient in the use of English, to be honest you are making huge exaggerations just to score a silly point, you are a person totally devoid of any decent character.

My "PC" views (and I have a strong suspicion that you have no idea what it means to be "politically correct") have always been there.

So your saying that pc doesnt encourage critisism of anyone if their not white males?
Because if you don't, then I have a better grasp of pc than you seem too.


It's an essential part of being German that you are tought to be civil and tolerant from Primary School onwards.

Tolerant of abuse towards you, from other races even?




I had three good friends, all Turks, with whom I have been to family vacations and so on. They never did anything "Muslim", anything that may have been foreign. Their mothers wore the hejab, as did one guy's sister. That's all.

This is pretty low key for muslims at present, and I doubt(there you go) that many white boys will be going picnicing in Europes future with muslims as they become more confident with numbers, thus then hostile to white people.


And for the rest of your post...you need to check your grammar, cuz I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say.

Thers nothing wrong with my grammar, your just dodging.

It was just a typo. And it doesnt bother me in the least if you are more proficient in the use of English, to be honest you are making huge exaggerations just to score a silly point, you are a person totally devoid of any decent character.
Thank you.

So your saying that pc doesnt encourage critisism of anyone if their not white males?
Because if you don't, then I have a better grasp of pc than you seem too.
Political Correctness doesn't encourage anything other than not saying things that insult others. Why do you insist on calling it "pc" rather than the actual term?
Could it be that you are trying to dodge the actual meaning of the word, or the concept?

Tolerant of abuse towards you, from other races even?
I have never been abused by any Muslim. Indeed, I have been bullied in primary school by a white German child. Should I now try to threaten all Germans with death?

This is pretty low key for muslims at present, and I doubt(there you go) that many white boys will be going picnicing in Europes future with muslims as they become more confident with numbers, thus then hostile to white people.
Hostile to white people? Again, you have no proof. The articles you posted are mere allegations, and as I said, they describe outliers in the European Muslim Community. You are paranoid and xenophobic.
You remind me of the madman screaming conspiracy and accusing others of being naive.

Thers nothing wrong with my grammar, your just dodging.
I'm sorry, but there is. Could you edit the post so that I can respond to it properly?
And it is "there is" or "there's".

Gessler, I've got one very simple question:

Have you ever been to any place in Europe, or is your general idea of "white European culture" second hand?

Gessler, I've got one very simple question:
Have you ever been to any place in Europe, or is your general idea of "white European culture" second hand?

No, not yet, Are you suggesting the news is misleading on this matter?

[QUOTE=Leonstein]Thank you.

Dont thank me, just have a good look at yourself.


Political Correctness doesn't encourage anything other than not saying things that insult others. Why do you insist on calling it "pc" rather than the actual term?

The encouraging not to insult has also spun out of control where any critisism is siezed apon as racism.

Could it be that you are trying to dodge the actual meaning of the word, or the concept?

No pc as I call it is at heart socialism, bought into western culture in order to destroy it, you knew what I meant by pc, saying the actual whole word every time is almost a big a drag as the way of thought.
pc is essentially brainwashing.

I have never been abused by any Muslim.

Probably because you bend over backwards to please them.

Indeed, I have been bullied in primary school by a white German child. Should I now try to threaten all Germans with death?

Who has'nt? Everyone gets bullied by someone sooner or later, even the bullys, bullys are basically cowards, and their everywhere.




Hostile to white people? Again, you have no proof. The articles you posted are mere allegations

This sounds very defensive.

and as I said, they describe outliers in the European Muslim Community. You are paranoid and xenophobic.

Not really, Im just not afraid to see and name a danger when I see it.




You remind me of the madman screaming conspiracy and accusing others of being naive.

The conspiracy is pc.



I'm sorry, but there is. Could you edit the post so that I can respond to it properly?
And it is "there is" or "there's".

Oh thanks.

I started to read the thread because it is an interesting question.

I have an impatience problem so I skipped to the end after reading the first few messages. I guess I should go back and read all of them through but I don't think I would make it without coming in with the same statement. So I wll go ahead and go off half-cocked, as it were.

It is the nature of all societies, however ancient or new, to trend toward change. It is impossible, given human nature, for any given society to remain as it is at any given moment.

I'm sure that the celts of the British Islands had idea that a Roman regiment or two making landfall were going to be so very disasterously (to them) affecting to their lifestyle.

The indigenous populations of the Americas had no chance against the influx of "immigrants" of the colonial period.

Europe as we now know it, will die. Plain and simple. Who knows what it will look like in 200 years? Europe of 1805 looked nothing like it does now, right down to most of the border lines, which have since changed hands, changed names or changed religeons like most people change their socks. Anybody remember Pommerania?

Andy

Anybody remember Pommerania?
I do.

No, not yet, Are you suggesting the news is misleading on this matter?

Well, news received second hand is always distorted, as there is no such thing as an objective report. Furthermore, you'll only get news on selected subjects and topics, never an overall picture.

I would suggest to come here and take a very good look around, at all the (very, very, very different) cultures on this continent, at the different groups of population, the different attitudes, lifestyles, religions, political structures, etc.

From what I read in your posts you seem to see Europe as a rather homogenous culture, which it really isn't.
I've got a good friend from Sicilly (small Italian island), whose ancestors came from both Italy and Algeria (and I don't mean her parents or grandparents, I'm talkin 10 generations back), and who keeps telling me that culturally and geographically, she feels closer to Tunisia or Algeria than to Milan and Rome.
Europe also has its indegenous Islam population, in Serbia and Monte Negro. It has 3 different scripts (Latin sript, Kyrillic script, and Arab script).
Overall, it is not a single culture, which is what so many people on this thread tried to tell you over and over again, but rather a conglomerate of - by now - almost all of the cultures of the world. It grew out of two large ancient cultures - that of the Mediterranean (Spain, France, Italy, Jugoslavia, Greece, Turkey, Israel, Tunisia, Algeria, Morrocco, for example) and that of the North Atlantic (Skandinavia, the British Isles, France, Russia), and it still is growning in cultural diversity.

The encouraging not to insult has also spun out of control where any critisism is siezed apon as racism.
That is not what I think of it. If it happens (and it happened once to me, I dared criticise Anne Frank's behaviour when we read her book at school) then that sucks, but it's not like that is common.
And even more importantly, it's not like that is the purpose of political correctness, if there was such a thing.

No pc as I call it is at heart socialism, bought into western culture in order to destroy it, you knew what I meant by pc, saying the actual whole word every time is almost a big a drag as the way of thought.
pc is essentially brainwashing.
Explain.

Probably because you bend over backwards to please them.
:rolleyes:

This sounds very defensive.
It isn't.

Not really, Im just not afraid to see and name a danger when I see it.
Even if the danger isn't there.

The conspiracy is pc.
:rolleyes:

as this thread appears to be reaching the point of..
A:yes it is.
B:no it is not!
A:your ignorant!
B: :rolleyes:
etc...

What level of immigration should be allowed into europe? Should it be uncontrolled? limited to needed skills? limited to same faith/colour? etc...

anyone?

Europe..Dying?...i cant say much for other countries but if my political career continues the way intend..then britain is fairly safe :)
i expect Europe has a good few centuries ahead..not as much as america* but Europe will outlive me, my children, my childrens, childres..their children...maybe even theirs..so no..no imediate threat..
:)

* Inless they continue their present foreign policy "if it aint American it dont belong"

as this thread appears to be reaching the point of..
A:yes it is.
B:no it is not!
A:your ignorant!
B: :rolleyes:
etc...

What level of immigration should be allowed into europe? Should it be uncontrolled? limited to needed skills? limited to same faith/colour? etc...

anyone?

Europe has allways had immigrants btween its own borders, hugenots and whatnot traveling into britain, Jews from the mid east etc..but i do think that their should be a limmit on who we allow in to the EU..namely...terrorists, potential terrorists and...zealots..that should cover it...considering the huge boom in chinese imagration..i welcome it :)

Europe has allways had immigrants btween its own borders, hugenots and whatnot traveling into britain, Jews from the mid east etc..but i do think that their should be a limmit on who we allow in to the EU..namely...terrorists, potential terrorists and...zealots..that should cover it...considering the huge boom in chinese imagration..i welcome it :)

does that mean fundamentalists of all religions and people with terrorist ties covering the political and religious?

In terms of past immigration though, the level were always smaller. I believe only about 200,000 Hugenots (sp?) came to britain. levels now do seem to be higher. And they mixed well in religious and ethnic terms. Also brought valuable skills i believe.

does that mean fundamentalists of all religions and people with terrorist ties covering the political and religious?

All of the above


In terms of past immigration though, the level were always smaller. I believe only about 200,000 Hugenots (sp?) came to britain. levels now do seem to be higher. And they mixed well in religious and ethnic terms. Also brought valuable skills i believe.

I think you have to take into account that the entire population was a lot smaller, too. It exploded during the Industrial Revolution and has grown ever since...

does that mean fundamentalists of all religions and people with terrorist ties covering the political and religious?

In terms of past immigration though, the level were always smaller. I believe only about 200,000 Hugenots (sp?) came to britain. levels now do seem to be higher. And they mixed well in religious and ethnic terms. Also brought valuable skills i believe.

your spelling is probably better than mine...um...and yes it does include anyone with terrorist ties..or to make it more clear..anyone who is pro terrorist

....

I would suggest to come here and take a very good look around, at all the (very, very, very different) cultures on this continent, at the different groups of population, the different attitudes, lifestyles, religions, political structures, etc.

....Europe also has its indegenous Islam population, in Serbia and Monte Negro. It has 3 different scripts (Latin sript, Kyrillic script, and Arab script)....

Very, very different cultures as everyone who lives in Europe and has travelled beyond the last house of his/her (pc :p ) village knows.

"Indeginous" Muslim populations actually exist in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Albania, FYROMacedonia, Bulgaria, Greece and Cyprus. But if we count immigrants (and we should) then we have to add France, Germany and Great Britain (at least).

What do you mean 3 scripts???
:mad: What about Greek? :D

Very, very different cultures as everyone who lives in Europe and has travelled beyond the last house of his/her (pc :p ) village knows.

"Indeginous" Muslim populations actually exist in Bosnia-Herzegovia, Albania, Bulgaria, Greece and Cyprus. But if we count immigrants (and we should) then we have to add France, Germany and Great Britain (at least).

What do you mean 3 scripts???
:mad: What about Greek? :D

your guys uses cyrilic no?
Byzantine empire used cyrilic
Catholic kingdoms used Latin
Turks used Arabic.

All of the above



I think you have to take into account that the entire population was a lot smaller, too. It exploded during the Industrial Revolution and has grown ever since...

But it was also probably easier also due to the fact they were white and protestant. Now they're brown and muslim.

From what I read in your posts you seem to see Europe as a rather homogenous culture, which it really isn't.
I've got a good friend from Sicilly (small Italian island), whose ancestors came from both Italy and Algeria (and I don't mean her parents or grandparents, I'm talkin 10 generations back), and who keeps telling me that culturally and geographically, she feels closer to Tunisia or Algeria than to Milan and Rome.


Why does she keep on telling you that? She must be a muslim.
And the difference in the cultures is not that big. But of course its like we have one culture.

Why does she keep on telling you that? She must be a muslim.
And the difference in the cultures is not that big. But of course its like we have one culture.

She is Roman Catholic, but traditions in her home resemble Arab traditions more than Northern Europeans.

The difference is not that big? Even the differences in cultures in one and the same country can be amazing...
So, you're saying that Portuguese and Lithuaninan culture is similar in any way? That Monte Negro really is the same as Ireland?

your guys uses cyrilic no?
Byzantine empire used cyrilic
Catholic kingdoms used Latin
Turks used Arabic.
The Byzantine Empire used Greek!
Cyrillic is a script devised by Cyril(us), a Greek Byzantine monk who was sent along with Methodius to form a mission with the Khazars.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04592a.htm

So, no, we don't use Cyrillic ;)

The difference is not that big? Even the differences in cultures in one and the same country can be amazing...
So, you're saying that Portuguese and Lithuaninan culture is similar in any way? That Monte Negro really is the same as Ireland?

I know nothing of the culture in Portugal or Monte Negro so...
But sure there might be some things that are diffrent, but let me say it like this it would not be to hard for me to make contact with a teen from Portugal. We would do the same things in your spare time and souch.

I know nothing of the culture in Portugal or Monte Negro so...
But sure there might be some things that are diffrent, but let me say it like this it would not be to hard for me to make contact with a teen from Portugal. We would do the same things in your spare time and souch.

Hmm... you're trying to say a teen from Hong Kong would have considerably different hobbies? Or one from Johannesburg?

But it was also probably easier also due to the fact they were white and protestant. Now they're brown and muslim.

True. But at the same time, they were from France, the hated arch-enemy. The British population greeted them just as "enthusiastic" as Europe treats immigrants today.

True. But at the same time, they were from France, the hated arch-enemy. The British population greeted them just as "enthusiastic" as Europe treats immigrants today.

I can not speak on bahelaf of all other countries in the EU but Britain treats Immigrants reasonably well

I can not speak on bahelaf of all other countries in the EU but Britain treats Immigrants reasonably well

So do most countries in Europe... I can't think of any country that would have discrimminatory laws against immigrants, but I also can't think of any country that doesn't have the odd xenophobe and race-induced crimes now and then.

So do most countries in Europe... I can't think of any country that would have discrimminatory laws against immigrants, but I also can't think of any country that doesn't have the odd xenophobe and race-induced crimes now and then.

Ask any of the 4th generation "Turks" living in Germany...

Ask any of the 4th generation "Turks" living in Germany...

Why?

The Byzantine Empire used Greek!
Cyrillic is a script devised by Cyril(us), a Greek Byzantine monk who was sent along with Methodius to form a mission with the Khazars.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04592a.htm

So, no, we don't use Cyrillic ;)

better said. three alphabets are used in europe. cyrillic, latin, arab.

[QUOTE]
Exactly right, unless you wish to see Europe totally overrun with muslims.

No.

Yes, now easily, in future it could get impossible.

No, unlike the Muslim faith which seems to have no idea what living with other peoples and faiths is about, Im not advocating removing middle easterners just because their middle easterners, but because they are a danger.

The simple problem of raising our own birthrates to at least replacing ourselves, is to remove all feminist ideology, and teaching, along with misplaced values that encourage homosexuality to spread.

Um does anyone else see the paradox, no wait, hypocrisy here?

Gessler the main reason people are worried about an increased Muslim population in Europe is that there is a bigger proportion of them (to say christians) that respect some harsh interpretations of their religion over common law. This culture is typically seen in the lack of rights of their minorities and women - neither of which are treated fairly under a harsh islam doctrine (nor would they be under a harsh christian doctrine).

Europe works on a secularist basis, and elements within it can feel threatened by the lack of divide between religion and society in islamic states. Recently the world has watched in shock as Iran officials hung two teenage boys for being gay. This is just an example of why aspects of their culture is not desired in Europe.

So how is what you are proposing any different from "allowing" Europe to turn into a fundamentalist Muslim state (not that i believe this will happen). I think you and the fundy Muslims are singing from the same hymn book. Isn't it funny that the one's you criticise so unabashedly are the ones you resemble the most?

Europe isn't dying, it's just evolving. Things like the ideal union, free travel and trade and the single currency will all happen as the way they were intended to if not better, but it's not going to happen as fast as some people want. Population..... come on ..... thats been up and down across it's and others history. The issue with it's union will only be addressed as people such as myself who have unshakeable and inflexable loyalties to my countries flag and really don't want the change, have died and these ideals have been watered down to allow the change. ......... Oh ok I've been told to shut my yapper. :rolleyes: