NationStates Jolt Archive

Oh yeah, that leads to another one of my predictions: Harry definately has to go on a muderous rampage.

Also, I have a feeling that he is going to return to Hogwarts anyways, even though he said that he wasn't going to. Besides, they are up for another Tri-wizard's tournament. (though it might not happen due to Dumbledore's death)
Harry's not going back.

Source: http://www.mugglenet.com/jkrinterview2.shtml

i suppose that makes sense, actually. i mean voldemort did reserve creating Horcrux's for special deaths - and Potter's would definatley qualified what with the prophecy and all. i wouldn't be suprised if this was the case, then - although it is a bit obvious ("OMG Harry has to die for Voldemort to be killed!!") and i hope Rowling does something utterly unexpected and clever instead
Maybe there's a spell to seperate one's soul from one's body or from an object, sort of an anti-Horcrux spell? HEY... maybe Voldemort will actually un-Horcrux Harry himself so that he (and I mean Harry with that pronoun) can be killed, thus sealing his own fate? :eek: Oh, that would be kinda on the cool yet cliched side.

OH wait I just remembered a theory I came up with when I was pissed.... or at least thats what my cousin say's anyway... Who's Harry's God mother

And now, several different predictions for Harry Potter and The Seventh Book in His Series... ( :p ) Some of these I stole from other posters, but I think are good ideas.

POSSIBILITY 01: The Star Wars Ripoff
Harry, fueled by hate, goes on a rampage to get to Snape/Voldemort. He falls to "the dark side" in the process. Perhaps he kills Voldemort and becomes the next "Dark Lord"?

Ollivander: "You will do great things, Potter.[..] [...]He [Voldemort] did great things. Terrible, but great."
The dude was weird... but he was comparing Harry to Voldemort, which tells me that there's always a possibility that Harry will follow in Voldemort's footsteps.

POSSIBILITY 02: How Cliched is This?
Harry finds all the horcruxes and destroys them, and then the Order and possibly a whole bunch of other wizards unite to kill Voldemort and the rest of the Death Eaters. Harry and friends become heroes, they get medals... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

POSSIBILITY 03: Neville is the "Chosen One"
At this point, this isn't very likely. Voldemort made Harry the "Chosen One" unintentionally but pretty clearly, as Dumbledore explains in HBP. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Neville didn't end up being a hero in his own right by the end of the book.

POSSIBILITY 04: Harry is Voldemort's Last Horcrux
This possibility intrigues me most of all. If Harry is the last horcrux, does he sacrifice himself to kill Voldemort or does Voldemort sacrifice himself to kill Harry, or do they join forces, or what? :eek: I love it! It's perfect!

POSSIBILITY 05: Harry Talks Voldemort to Death
Harry uses what he found out from the Pensieve as a weapon. Voldemort loses the will to live. May apply to 01, 02, or 04. Or, perhaps Neville does the same thing, but has Harry told him about that? Don't think he has.

Who's Harry's God mother

Come on... quick I want recognision on this theory....

Come on... quick I want recognision on this theory....
To be honest, I can't really think that Sirius had anybody.

To be honest, I can't really think that Sirius had anybody.

They don't have to be with each other do they?


I thought it was like choosing a best man or a bride's maid

They don't have to be with each other do they?


I thought it was like choosing a best man or a bride's maid
It can be. I guess there was some kind of wizarding baptism for Harry? :confused: Anyway, Godparents don't always come in pairs, but usually, they're a married couple, for convience, really. I can't really think of anyone that Lilly and James would choose to be Harry's godmother.

They don't have to be with each other do they?

They don't, but I don't think Harry has a godmother. If he does it's either Aunt Petunia or Godmother is dead, too. Otherwise she would have been mentioned somewhere in OotP or HBP.

Harry isn't a Horcrux. Do you seriously think that Voldemort would a) be able to turn baby Harry into a Horcrux with not even a body, b) penetrate the protection of Hogwarts/Privet Drive between books four and six without anyone noticing c) sacrifice his body in order to make a Horcrux, or d) want to give that kind of power in the first place to someone who is supposed to already have power he doesn't?

Harry isn't a Horcrux. Do you seriously think that Voldemort would a) be able to turn baby Harry into a Horcrux with not even a body, b) penetrate the protection of Hogwarts/Privet Drive between books four and six without anyone noticing c) sacrifice his body in order to make a Horcrux, or d) want to give that kind of power in the first place to someone who is supposed to already have power he doesn't?

Nah.... Remember how some of Voldemort went into Harry (eurgh... that sounds sick) when he try'd to kill him.

Nah.... Remember how some of Voldemort went into Harry (eurgh... that sounds sick) when he try'd to kill him.

Mind out of the gutter. I'm having enough trouble already trying not to fall back into my habit of crushing on book characters... Snape is so enigmatic now... AHEM.

But anyway, while that may have happened, I think Voldemort's soul is hardly what went into him. I doubt a dark magic like the Horcrux could be accidentally done. However, I do agree there may be a twist in the last book involving the connection between Harry and Voldemort.

Causing a huge distraction and running like hell is not "standing your ground".

Perhaps, but still thats what harry did when he faced voldy in GOF, and they considered that very brave of him, since instead of freaking out, he kept his cool long enough to get away. Siruis was a much better wizard than peter too, although like i said he's mostly a spinelss coward, i'm just saying hes also a little brave

Ihatevacations']he tried to talk voldermont out of killngi harry because harry is well protected and wormtail is a coward.

But why would Wormtail care about that. It wasn't even his job to get harry it was croushes, all he had to do was do what voldy said after harry was tied up and unprotected. It seemed like to me, he didn't want to harm harry if he could help it.

I think I know who RAB is. Serius Black's brother had those innitials. (I can't think of the exact name at the moment...Regulus something Black, but I know it was RAB) Anyways, he was a Death Eater if I remember correctly. There may have been more to him, though. Any thoughts?

I think I know who RAB is. Serius Black's brother had those innitials. (I can't think of the exact name at the moment...Regulus something Black, but I know it was RAB) Anyways, he was a Death Eater if I remember correctly. There may have been more to him, though. Any thoughts?
Old news. See previous posts in this thread.

I dont think Harry is a horcrux for a variety of reasons, the main one being the following:

1. We know that "you know who" was trying to kill Harry and we even know what spell he tried to use on him. We also know that to kill someone who has created a horcrux you must first destroy the horcrux. Why would Voldemort turn someone into a horcrux and then immediately try to kill them? Why would he have tried to kill Harry in book 4 if he knew Harry was one of his horcruxes? The idea behind the horcrux is that you keep it safe so that you can never be fully destroyed. If Riddle had turned Harry into a horcrux, we wouldve seen him trying to protect Harry from any harm throughout all of Harry's life, not trying to kill him.

Now, on to my real question. According to Rowling, careful re-readers of the last book will be able to successfully guess at what one of the other horcruxes which we havent been told about is. I havent re-read the book (and dont really intend to), but the only thing that comes to mind is that it might be something in the pocket realm created by the room of requirement when someone needs a place to hide something. I re-read that section and the only other item described singularly is a heavy, bloodstained axe. How many other Hogwarts students might have been evil enough to require a place to hide a blood stained axe? Im venturing a guess that this axe may have once belonged to Tom, and may have been one of his early horcruxes.

Old news. See previous posts in this thread.

Sorry. I was too lazy to read the whole thing. With my 56k, it would have taken forever. Lol.

When I reached the end of this Harry Potter Book I literally cried. Sirius died in the last one, and now Dumbledore? Oh sure, kill off the cool characters. Now I just want to see Harry dead in the next one.

*snip*
Speaking of the Room of Requirement, wouldn't it be really nice and a total jip if Harry went in there asking for a full list and location of all the Horcruxes, and then got it? :p
Like Gandalf riding the birds into Mordor instead of starting a silly war, it is.

Why would Voldemort turn someone into a horcrux and then immediately try to kill them? Why would he have tried to kill Harry in book 4 if he knew Harry was one of his horcruxes?
because he has like 5 more, and doesn't really have a problem killing others to make more horcruxes. besides i think voldemort's hatred of harry could either obscure his judgement in this matter, or at least overshadow his desire to keep 7 horcruxes.

though good point on the first bit: how could harry be a horcrux if it was supposed to be harry's death that created the thing? voldemort reserved splitting his soul for special murders and baby harry's would have been such a death i'm sure, as riddle knew of the prophecy by then. so how is it possible to both turn someone into a horcrux AND kill them? unless he knew harry's mother's love would protect him of course, but thats just plain ridiculous

I dont think Harry is a horcrux for a variety of reasons, the main one being the following:

1. We know that "you know who" was trying to kill Harry and we even know what spell he tried to use on him. We also know that to kill someone who has created a horcrux you must first destroy the horcrux. Why would Voldemort turn someone into a horcrux and then immediately try to kill them? Why would he have tried to kill Harry in book 4 if he knew Harry was one of his horcruxes? The idea behind the horcrux is that you keep it safe so that you can never be fully destroyed. If Riddle had turned Harry into a horcrux, we wouldve seen him trying to protect Harry from any harm throughout all of Harry's life, not trying to kill him.

Now, on to my real question. According to Rowling, careful re-readers of the last book will be able to successfully guess at what one of the other horcruxes which we havent been told about is. I havent re-read the book (and dont really intend to), but the only thing that comes to mind is that it might be something in the pocket realm created by the room of requirement when someone needs a place to hide something. I re-read that section and the only other item described singularly is a heavy, bloodstained axe. How many other Hogwarts students might have been evil enough to require a place to hide a blood stained axe? Im venturing a guess that this axe may have once belonged to Tom, and may have been one of his early horcruxes.
I think you're underestimating the power of fear. He may be a "Dark Lord", but obviously he does fear his own demise... and, apparently, being similar to anyone or anything else. Harry Potter presents both fears for him. Perhaps by the time he encountered Harry in the fourth book, he was frightened enough to not be thinking rationally? Plus, he does have several other horcruxes.

I MUST reread the book now! :D

*bump*

I enjoy the conversation even though I've not been particularly active. I'm finally on the reread, so maybe I'll have some input soon.

*bump*

I enjoy the conversation even though I've not been particularly active. I'm finally on the reread, so maybe I'll have some input soon.

Hmm, reread sounds good to me, even though it was pretty damn rushed and poorly written...... ;)

Hmm, reread sounds good to me, even though it was pretty damn rushed and poorly written...... ;)
Wingardium Leviosa!
A cookie for he first person to get this... HP nerd that they will be...

Its WinGARdium LeviOsa :p

Hmmm...it is possible Regulus Black took whatever Horcrux was in that cave and put it in the house. He might have taken a page out of Voldemort's book, and all those nasty Boggarts in the house in OotP may actually have been defending something, and not just there because of age. ;)

Wingardium Leviosa!
A cookie for he first person to get this... HP nerd that they will be...

It won't work, I'm not a troll.

Bumping Along

It won't work, I'm not a troll.
Yeah. Right.

(j/k)

Yeah. Right.

(j/k)

Prove it. ;)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b6/Ozzyj/sig.gif

Originally Posted by Kalmykhia
Wingardium Leviosa!
A cookie for he first person to get this... HP nerd that they will be...

*hits Kalmykhia with the avada kedava curse (dunno how to spell it) in the chest* Kalmykhia now dead, kalmykhias' spell breaks the cookie drops into my waiting hand! :D

Hmmm...it is possible Regulus Black took whatever Horcrux was in that cave and put it in the house. He might have taken a page out of Voldemort's book, and all those nasty Boggarts in the house in OotP may actually have been defending something, and not just there because of age. ;)


I believe whatever the horcrux was RAB destroyed it..this is most likely why he was killed by Voldemort. Boggarts arent very bright the only thing they live to do is torment a person with their fears.

I believe whatever the horcrux was RAB destroyed it..this is most likely why he was killed by Voldemort. Boggarts arent very bright the only thing they live to do is torment a person with their fears.nope, I don't think so. The Horcux that RAB supposidly took was a locket right?

what about the locket they found in Grimwald place (OotP)... the one they couldn't open?

Every fantasy plot cliché I can think of and loads of hints throughout the book indicate that what happened at the end was essentially Dumbledore sacrificing himself to get Snape and Harry closer to Voldemort. Snape will betray Voldemort in Book Seven; depend on it.

Snape will betray Voldemort in Book Seven; depend on it.

I really hope so. On the re-read, I really caught several moments that made me believe that Snape might be evil.

Dumbledore's comment that he makes mistakes, and that they tend to be big ones.

Snape having Wormtail as a servant in his "slummy" muggle home.

Snape taking the Unbreakable Vow.

Flitwick's "collapse" in Snape's office.

There are others, too. I'm really hoping that we learn that Snape really was good -- and that Dumbledore's comment to Draco "They can't kill you if you're already dead. We could hide you better than you imagine..." was an allusion to Dumbledore's death not being real. I want Snape to be good and Dumbledore to be alive.

I just don't know if it can happen.

Hmmm...it is possible Regulus Black took whatever Horcrux was in that cave and put it in the house.

It was the Slytherin locket; in OotP, while cleaning, the kids find a locket they can't open. I bet it was the horcrux.

I really hope so. On the re-read, I really caught several moments that made me believe that Snape might be evil.

Dumbledore's comment that he makes mistakes, and that they tend to be big ones.

Snape having Wormtail as a servant in his "slummy" muggle home.he could've 'persuaded' Vordemort to let him have Pettigrew as his 'helper' to keep him safe.

Snape taking the Unbreakable Vow.if you read, Bellatrix was still suspicious of Snape, and Snape knew of the plan for Draco. so it can also be seen as insuring that Draco (a hogwarts student) will be ok, and also to alay Bellatrix's suspicions.

Flitwick's "collapse" in Snape's office.that was explained that Snape nocked em out. after all, if he could've killed Fitwick, why just 'knock em out'

There are others, too. I'm really hoping that we learn that Snape really was good -- and that Dumbledore's comment to Draco "They can't kill you if you're already dead. We could hide you better than you imagine..." was an allusion to Dumbledore's death not being real. I want Snape to be good and Dumbledore to be alive.

I just don't know if it can happen.it can... remember, Peter Pettigrew still owes Potter for saving his life. That also has to be brought into play. Then there is Snape's Demenor after Dumbledore's death.
The heavy use of the Polyjuice potion in all of the books...

for all we know, that might actually be Peter's body in the grave and not Dumbledore's... ever thought of that?

he could've 'persuaded' Vordemort to let him have Pettigrew as his 'helper' to keep him safe.

Because Voldemort is such a "persuadable" character... If Snape really is undercover, and still good, there's no way he'd agree to risk his cover and the Order of the Phoenix to rescue someone who he hates and who hasn't shown any remorse for anything he did. Pettigrew, while he may owe his life to Harry, hasn't actually demonstrated any sorrow over what he did.


Bellatrix was still suspicious of Snape, and Snape knew of the plan for Draco. so it can also be seen as insuring that Draco (a hogwarts student) will be ok, and also to alay Bellatrix's suspicions

Seems a weak argument for agreeing to kill your mentor, whom you have expressed remorse to many times. There certainly were other ways to keep Draco safe without agreeing to kill Dumbledore. And Snape is a deceitful enough character to know that regardless of what he might have done, it wouldn't have allayed any of Bellatrix's suspicions. It would be in her nature to remain suspicious of him.

However weak I think this explanation might be this might be what learn. I'm still stuck on the fact that Dumbledore trusted him so completely. That is the only thing that even allows me to consider the situation you've presented.


that was explained that Snape nocked em out. after all, if he could've killed Fitwick, why just 'knock em out'
Why bother to knock him out? Snape is, at this point, so thoroughly trusted that he could have said "Go on. I'll be right there I need to get X" and Flitwick would have run off, allowing Snape to do his double-agent thing. If Snape is still a loyal follower of the OotP, he would have wanted one more good guy out there; the last thing he would have wanted would be for any of them to die. So, why not let Flitwick be out there? (At this point, Snape can't know that only Dumbledore will die.) Of course, I guess Flitwick could be a bad guy, but there has been absolutely no evidence to that fact, and if he were, then Snape might have done a little more than knock him out.

for all we know, that might actually be Peter's body in the grave and not Dumbledore's... ever thought of that?

No way. Dumbledore wasn't out of Harry's sight after the trip into that cave. There's no way that Peter Pettigrew could possibly have been brave enough to do that. The only thing that could have forced him to do it would have been the "Imperius" curse, which non-dark wizards wouldn't have used. While he was a Gryffindor, the character Peter Pettigrew couldn't possibly have been brave enough to actually enter the cave and attempt such treachery to his Master. His fear of Voldemort would have paralyzed him long before.

I've been trying to figure out how the Polyjuice comes into play, because I know it will, but none of the scenarios I can figure out seem to allow Dumbledore to be alive... Of I don't have JK Rowling's vision so I am hopeful that I am wrong.

No way. Dumbledore wasn't out of Harry's sight after the trip into that cave. There's no way that Peter Pettigrew could possibly have been brave enough to do that. The only thing that could have forced him to do it would have been the "Imperius" curse, which non-dark wizards wouldn't have used. While he was a Gryffindor, the character Peter Pettigrew couldn't possibly have been brave enough to actually enter the cave and attempt such treachery to his Master. His fear of Voldemort would have paralyzed him long before. 1) in CoF, Barty Couch Jr played Mad Eye Moody for the whole school year. Peter, with Snapes help, could have all the polyjuice he needs to pull it off.
2) Peter was also at Snapes home, so chances are he and Snape could've planned and pulled it off.
3) Peter, a sniviling worm also showed signs in OotP that he wanted to help Harry. (trying to convince Vordimort to use another wizard.)
4) Peter did help Subdue Moody. thus proof that he is growing a spine.
5) Peter was friends with the Potters and he tried to spy on Vordimort (PoA) but admitted that "Vordimort was too strong." so giving his life to stop Vordimort may be his form of repentance.
6) he was in Gryffendore... so you know he did have the courage... Even Neville showed courage.

I've been trying to figure out how the Polyjuice comes into play, because I know it will, but none of them seem to allow Dumbledore to be alive... Of I don't have JK Rowling's vision so I am hopeful that I am wrong.I also am resigned to Dumbledore's death. sad as it may be, Harry does need to move out of Dumbledore's shadow.

Because Voldemort is such a "persuadable" character... If Snape really is undercover, and still good, there's no way he'd agree to risk his cover and the Order of the Phoenix to rescue someone who he hates and who hasn't shown any remorse for anything he did. Pettigrew, while he may owe his life to Harry, hasn't actually demonstrated any sorrow over what he did. He managed to convince Voldemort that he is still loyal to him even while still working for Dumbledore... and remember, Pettiegrew was the only one to 'nurse' vordemort, so vordemort won't repay such kindness with death... but instead foistering the sniveling worm to an underling is something Voldy would do.

Seems a weak argument for agreeing to kill your mentor, whom you have expressed remorse to many times. There certainly were other ways to keep Draco safe without agreeing to kill Dumbledore. And Snape is a deceitful enough character to know that regardless of what he might have done, it wouldn't have allayed any of Bellatrix's suspicions. It would be in her nature to remain suspicious of him.

However weak I think this explanation might be this might be what learn. I'm still stuck on the fact that Dumbledore trusted him so completely. That is the only thing that even allows me to consider the situation you've presented.if Draco confided his plan with Snape (which he didn't) so Snape didn't know what Draco had planned until Draco did it. also with Bellatrix still spouting her doubts, she and others she convinced will keep an eye on Snape... hampering his movements. the more people that trust snape, the more freedom he has.

and as a Hogwarts teacher, his responsibility is also to his students.

Why bother to knock him out? Snape is, at this point, so thoroughly trusted that he could have said "Go on. I'll be right there I need to get X" and Flitwick would have run off, allowing Snape to do his double-agent thing. If Snape is still a loyal follower of the OotP, he would have wanted one more good guy out there; the last thing he would have wanted would be for any of them to die. So, why not let Flitwick be out there? (At this point, Snape can't know that only Dumbledore will die.) Of course, I guess Flitwick could be a bad guy, but there has been absolutely no evidence to that fact, and if he were, then Snape might have done a little more than knock him out.expidence... he didn't know what was happening except that it had something to do with Draco's plan. so knocking out a teacher removes one combatant that he might be forced to confront.

so knocking out a teacher removes one combatant that he might be forced to confront.

And endangers students, the students he has a responsibility to protect.

I read it in a couple of hours, but I didnt do any of that waiting for it at midnight. Picked it up from Tesco in the afternoon and finished it ASAP.

I thought it was a waste of a book really, I mean it was good and all, I liked it and I'l read the next one, but really, what did they accomplish? Ron & Hermionie briefly (which I dont like, because I want Harry and Hermionie damnit), then Harry and Ginny, then they discovered the Horcrux theory and Dumbledoor died. Thats not enough...
Do you think Hogwarts will be cast out fo the story now they are leaving?
Will Fluer get done in by the Death Eaters (PLEASE!!!)
Oh, and will Dumbledoor have left something behind for Harry? I think there may be a Dumbledoor Horcrux, from his battles with darkness, it didnt say the killing had to be Murder or cold blooded...

I'm really not trying to be antagonistic. I've just had most of these conversations in my head. I'm not decided that Snape is evil, but I'm leaning that way, currently.

(I've read an interview with JK Rowling, and she implies that Snape is evil but Dumbledore might not be dead... I'd like to see that one. ;) )

And endangers students, the students he has a responsibility to protect.and killing a teacher wont endanger the student's more?

by temporarily removing a teacher no student is placed in danger. remember Snapes is still a Hogwarts Teacher. he did not fight the Order nor the Death Eaters since both assumed that he was coming to help.

but think of this... he spared Draco the act of killing. He didn't try to encourage Draco or force him to do anything. he spared Draco that one act... the act that, according to Slughorn, 'Tears the soul apart' if he was truly Evil, he would've forced Draco to doing the act.

and he stopped the Curio spell that hit Harry. The curio spell won't kill, but he still told the DE's "no, Harry belongs to Vordimort" and while Harry was fighting Snape, Snape never disarmed Harry. he only countered/deflected the spells away, knowing harry needed his wand while the DE's were around. not the act of an Evil man.

I'm really not trying to be antagonistic. I've just had most of these conversations in my head. I'm not decided that Snape is evil, but I'm leaning that way, currently.

(I've read an interview with JK Rowling, and she implies that Snape is evil but Dumbledore might not be dead... I'd like to see that one. ;) )
no problem. everyone has their own opinions. not seeing this as antagonistic but a discussion. Hope I'm not coming across as Antagonistic... if I am, sorry.

and killing a teacher wont endanger the student's more?

by temporarily removing a teacher no student is placed in danger.

No, I'm saying why didn't he just tell Flitwick "I need to get X,Y,Z. I'll meet you after I've gotten these things that will help us to save our students"? Then, there would have been one more teacher defending the students. In either case, with Death Eaters in the castle all of the students were in danger. One more teacher could have been a help. I've always seen Snape as a teacher who would valued the safety of the students very highly. Knocking out Flitwick doesn't seem to fit with that; of course neither does thinking of him as evil.

Hope I'm not coming across as Antagonistic... if I am, sorry.
No, you're not, I just realized my tone could have been taken that way.

Anyway, I expect to be having a spirited discussion of this book with several sorority sisters Thursday evening. (Yes, we're all nearing thirty years old, all college-educated, and we chose HBP as our book club book this month. Last month we read Jennifer Government. :p )

No, I'm saying why didn't he just tell Flitwick "I need to get X,Y,Z. I'll meet you after I've gotten these things that will help us to save our students"? Then, there would have been one more teacher defending the students. In either case, with Death Eaters in the castle all of the students were in danger. One more teacher could have been a help. I've always seen Snape as a teacher who would valued the safety of the students very highly. Knocking out Flitwick doesn't seem to fit with that; of course neither does thinking of him as evil. Flitwick is the charms teacher... so Accio "x, y, z" really won't delay him long... then there is the fact that again Snape didn't know the specifics... only that there were DeathEaters on the grounds. so how would you delay someone when you don't know how long they needed to be delayed... and two, knowing what Draco needed to do, and the terms of the Unbreakable Curse, by removing Flitwick that way means
1) no lasting harm to Flitwick.
2) 1 less person stopping Draco as he tries to get away.
3) delays the raising of the alarm thus bringing students out into the hallways.
4) keeps the fight between the Order and the Deatheaters. thus less teachers getting involved. he knows what Hagrid is and how tough he is against magic.
5) remember, while fleeing, his only concern was for Draco. he never lifted a want to help anyone else.

oh and Evil does not mean Nasty. Play AD&D and you see that Evil comes in many forms. and Evil does have a sense of Honor.

Anyway, I expect to be having a spirited discussion of this book with several sorority sisters Thursday evening. (Yes, we're all nearing thirty years old, all college-educated, and we chose HBP as our book club book this month. Last month we read Jennifer Government. :p )have fun ;) let me know what the prevailing theory is.

Oh and here's a fun mindbender you can bring up to your group.

James and Lilly's group was betrayed by Peter Pettigrew.
The Order of the Phoenix was betrayed (in a sense) by Snape.
who is/will be the betrayer in Harry's group? ;)

It won't work, I'm not a troll.
Riiiiiiiight... :p No, I like you now, seeing as I found out you're a pint of Guinness. Oh, and Cheese Penguins, it won't work. I have a Horcrux. Muhahahahaha! Crucio! MUHAHAHAHA! Here's the cookie, Underpants. Want to torture Cheesy here a little? :p
I think Voldemort would be open to persuasion from Snape - after all, Voldemort trusts him implicitly and Snape is a prodigiously talented Legilimens.

Ok all this arguing about how people act in relationships at 16, lets outline the thing with Ginny. Harry has lurches in his stomach and doesnt know what they mean. As a 16 year old male i know perfectly well what that lurch means and its not ususally in my stomach. The book is very intent on using "kissing" as the "big thing". Now I dont know about any other 16 year old males other than me and all the ones i know, but when we find a girl, kissing is not exactly what we're after. At 16 you're starting to beome sexually active. At about 12 or 13 you're after that first kiss. I know the book cant talk about harry going around the back of the broom shed and giving ginny a good seeing to because its a childrens book, however the fact that she tries to mature a childrens book does make the book much more immature. Hope you all agree!

Ok all this arguing about how people act in relationships at 16, lets outline the thing with Ginny. Harry has lurches in his stomach and doesnt know what they mean. As a 16 year old male i know perfectly well what that lurch means and its not ususally in my stomach. The book is very intent on using "kissing" as the "big thing". Now I dont know about any other 16 year old males other than me and all the ones i know, but when we find a girl, kissing is not exactly what we're after. At 16 you're starting to beome sexually active. At about 12 or 13 you're after that first kiss. I know the book cant talk about harry going around the back of the broom shed and giving ginny a good seeing to because its a childrens book, however the fact that she tries to mature a childrens book does make the book much more immature. Hope you all agree!

I don't, well kinda, but I have some faith in sex not being all 16yr old guys think of. Some guys would be happy to kiss the girl they like instead of just sleeping with her...

Back me up here guys...

*runs off* :eek:

I don't, well kinda, but I have some faith in sex not being all 16yr old guys think of. Some guys would be happy to kiss the girl they like instead of just sleeping with her...

Back me up here guys...

*runs off* :eek:
~backs you up~

Yeah, I'm sorry, but when I was 16, I was excited about being kissed...

2 years later though ;)

~backs you up~

Yeah, I'm sorry, but when I was 16, I was excited about being kissed...

2 years later though ;)Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog, Snog...

(just like the sound of that word.) :D

JK Rowlings has been very careful in not portraying any teenage sex (aside from kissing) and in such a closed environment, relationships will form. the fact that she is trying to show these kids growing up and having emotions and lives other than "Must stop You-Know-Who" and "Must spy on Draco Malfoy" does add a different side to the characters... fleshing them out so to speak.

you can also hide spoilers like this...

and Snape Killed him... or so I heard.

using the Color tag.

Very impressive. Why didn't I think of that?

I want my cookie

~backs you up~

Yeah, I'm sorry, but when I was 16, I was excited about being kissed...

2 years later though ;)
Hey, I still am, those two years later... Not all guys are about sex... However, the way she deals with the love is still pretty immature for a sixteen year-old - who goes around carrying on like Won-Won and Lav-Lav? The Harry-Ginny thing was very out of nowhere and not really developed well. I still hate the word snog - at least she doesn't write down "Harry snogged Ginny", that would make me angry...
Underpants, here's your cookie: http://www.gatewayfundraising.com/images/cookie%20b.jpg. Enjoy!

the more I think about it... I kinda like my Peter Pettigrew theory.

the more I think about it... I kinda like my Peter Pettigrew theory.

Which was.....?

is it just me or is book 6 really boring?

Which was.....?this is far off into left feild... so far off that I expect it to not count, but the more I think about it...

in PoA...
We learn that Peter Pettigrew is alive and well... he was the Potter's secret keeper and was responsible for his death. however, while he should've died by Blacks and Lupin's hands, Harry forstalled them, saving Peter's life. According to Dumbledore, Peter now had a tie, a debt of honor to Harry Potter.

My theory is as follows. (I placed the Spoilers for HBP in white. Highlight them if you want but then don't blame me for spoiling the book for you.)

Peter Pettigrew used the polyjuice potion or was transfigured to assume Dumbledore's Identity and did so for the whole school year.

here are my facts.

1) Peter owed Potter. infact, in GoF, Peter was trying to disuade Voldemort from using Potter. Risking Voldy's wrath.

2) the overuse of the Polyjuice potion. in CoS, Hermionie uses the potion. in GoF, Barty Couch impersonates Mad Eye Moody for the year. also in GoF, Barty Couch used the Polyjuice potion to substitue his wife for his son in Azkaban also the fact that Malfoy uses the Polyjuice potion on Crabbe and Goyle.
we also know that Living things can also assume other shapes. Tonks is a metamorphmagus, Barty Jr, turned his father into a bone, and the transfiguration class has been turing animals into objects with no harm to the animal. so what if Dumbledore transfigured Peter to look like him? and Dumbledore assumed Peter's identity to get close to Voldy. (where did most of those memories come from?)

3) the withered right hand of Dumbledore (he never really explained it to Harry) matches the severed right hand of Peter. what if the silver glove thing that Voldemort put on Peter's arm could not be transfigured properly...

4) Peter was with Snape at Spinner's end. why? sure Snape said it was to 'assist' him, but Snape also knew voldemort's plan. thus he could've Imperitus cursed Peter to do this or Peter may be getting a backbone and sees this as his chance to make up to Harry Potter for the betryal he caused.

Now, the argument against it is that Peter is too weak willed, to cowardly to do such a thing.

but remember, he was placed in Gryffendor... so he has the courage, It took the freeing of Bellatrix Lestrange to give Nelville the courage, so maybe, having Potter save his life gave some hope to Peter.

We know in GoF, that Peter helped subdue Moody. thus we see that Peter is growing a spine. the fact that he was trying to dissuade Voldemort from using Potter is another sign.

the look on Snape's face when he "Avada Kedavera"d Dumbledore was the same look that he gave Peter at his home. so perhaps it was Peter that Snaped killed.

When Dumbledore and Harry were at the cave and Harry was feeding him the potion... the comments of Dumbledore makes sense when you think of him as Peter. "please no more" "Kill me instead" "Don't make me" all those comments seem to fit Peter reliving the time he watched James and Lilly Potter die or Voldemort forcing Peter to reveal where the Potters are hiding.

also, the Pheonix... remember, that the Phoenix tears can cure all wounds, yet, why didn't it cure Dumbledore's hand? unless it wouldn't because Peter didn't show the same loyalty Harry did in CoS. :D

http://www.tshirthell.com/dumbledore.htm

I so totally want one of these!

this is far off into left feild... so far off that I expect it to not count, but the more I think about it...

in PoA...
We learn that Peter Pettigrew is alive and well... he was the Potter's secret keeper and was responsible for his death. however, while he should've died by Blacks and Lupin's hands, Harry forstalled them, saving Peter's life. According to Dumbledore, Peter now had a tie, a debt of honor to Harry Potter.

My theory is as follows. (I placed the Spoilers for HBP in white. Highlight them if you want but then don't blame me for spoiling the book for you.)

Peter Pettigrew used the polyjuice potion or was transfigured to assume Dumbledore's Identity and did so for the whole school year.

here are my facts.

1) Peter owed Potter. infact, in GoF, Peter was trying to disuade Voldemort from using Potter. Risking Voldy's wrath.

2) the overuse of the Polyjuice potion. in CoS, Hermionie uses the potion. in GoF, Barty Couch impersonates Mad Eye Moody for the year. also in GoF, Barty Couch used the Polyjuice potion to substitue his wife for his son in Azkaban also the fact that Malfoy uses the Polyjuice potion on Crabbe and Goyle.
we also know that Living things can also assume other shapes. Tonks is a metamorphmagus, Barty Jr, turned his father into a bone, and the transfiguration class has been turing animals into objects with no harm to the animal. so what if Dumbledore transfigured Peter to look like him? and Dumbledore assumed Peter's identity to get close to Voldy. (where did most of those memories come from?)

3) the withered right hand of Dumbledore (he never really explained it to Harry) matches the severed right hand of Peter. what if the silver glove thing that Voldemort put on Peter's arm could not be transfigured properly...

4) Peter was with Snape at Spinner's end. why? sure Snape said it was to 'assist' him, but Snape also knew voldemort's plan. thus he could've Imperitus cursed Peter to do this or Peter may be getting a backbone and sees this as his chance to make up to Harry Potter for the betryal he caused.

Now, the argument against it is that Peter is too weak willed, to cowardly to do such a thing.

but remember, he was placed in Gryffendor... so he has the courage, It took the freeing of Bellatrix Lestrange to give Nelville the courage, so maybe, having Potter save his life gave some hope to Peter.

We know in GoF, that Peter helped subdue Moody. thus we see that Peter is growing a spine. the fact that he was trying to dissuade Voldemort from using Potter is another sign.

the look on Snape's face when he "Avada Kedavera"d Dumbledore was the same look that he gave Peter at his home. so perhaps it was Peter that Snaped killed.

When Dumbledore and Harry were at the cave and Harry was feeding him the potion... the comments of Dumbledore makes sense when you think of him as Peter. "please no more" "Kill me instead" "Don't make me" all those comments seem to fit Peter reliving the time he watched James and Lilly Potter die or Voldemort forcing Peter to reveal where the Potters are hiding.

also, the Pheonix... remember, that the Phoenix tears can cure all wounds, yet, why didn't it cure Dumbledore's hand? unless it wouldn't because Peter didn't show the same loyalty Harry did in CoS. :D

You know, all you have said there makes perfect sense!! Do you have a club that I can join and worship you? Because that is all A-OK - the best and most likely theory I have heard so far!!

is it just me or is book 6 really boring?

Yes, yes it was.

Thats a pretty damn good theory... its got me convinced... and is the sort of lame crap that Rowling would pull :p

Thats a pretty damn good theory... its got me convinced... and is the sort of lame crap that Rowling would pull :p

Hehe - soooooooo true!!

I like the theory but I still feel Peter really only cares about what happens to himself. He is far too cowardly to sacrifice himself and is far too stupid to know what DD has in his office. How would he know that DD had all of those memories ((probably well hidden only known to DD))? Peter is very self serving and sold out Lily and Harry for his own gain. He was and probably is a very poor wizard with his only talent being an animagus.

I got lazy after the third book and kind of died on Harry Potter....

thank God for movies ^.^

this is far off into left feild... so far off that I expect it to not count, but the more I think about it...

in PoA...
We learn that Peter Pettigrew is alive and well... he was the Potter's secret keeper and was responsible for his death. however, while he should've died by Blacks and Lupin's hands, Harry forstalled them, saving Peter's life. According to Dumbledore, Peter now had a tie, a debt of honor to Harry Potter.

My theory is as follows. (I placed the Spoilers for HBP in white. Highlight them if you want but then don't blame me for spoiling the book for you.)

Peter Pettigrew used the polyjuice potion or was transfigured to assume Dumbledore's Identity and did so for the whole school year.

here are my facts.

1) Peter owed Potter. infact, in GoF, Peter was trying to disuade Voldemort from using Potter. Risking Voldy's wrath.

2) the overuse of the Polyjuice potion. in CoS, Hermionie uses the potion. in GoF, Barty Couch impersonates Mad Eye Moody for the year. also in GoF, Barty Couch used the Polyjuice potion to substitue his wife for his son in Azkaban also the fact that Malfoy uses the Polyjuice potion on Crabbe and Goyle.
we also know that Living things can also assume other shapes. Tonks is a metamorphmagus, Barty Jr, turned his father into a bone, and the transfiguration class has been turing animals into objects with no harm to the animal. so what if Dumbledore transfigured Peter to look like him? and Dumbledore assumed Peter's identity to get close to Voldy. (where did most of those memories come from?)

3) the withered right hand of Dumbledore (he never really explained it to Harry) matches the severed right hand of Peter. what if the silver glove thing that Voldemort put on Peter's arm could not be transfigured properly...

4) Peter was with Snape at Spinner's end. why? sure Snape said it was to 'assist' him, but Snape also knew voldemort's plan. thus he could've Imperitus cursed Peter to do this or Peter may be getting a backbone and sees this as his chance to make up to Harry Potter for the betryal he caused.

Now, the argument against it is that Peter is too weak willed, to cowardly to do such a thing.

but remember, he was placed in Gryffendor... so he has the courage, It took the freeing of Bellatrix Lestrange to give Nelville the courage, so maybe, having Potter save his life gave some hope to Peter.

We know in GoF, that Peter helped subdue Moody. thus we see that Peter is growing a spine. the fact that he was trying to dissuade Voldemort from using Potter is another sign.

the look on Snape's face when he "Avada Kedavera"d Dumbledore was the same look that he gave Peter at his home. so perhaps it was Peter that Snaped killed.

When Dumbledore and Harry were at the cave and Harry was feeding him the potion... the comments of Dumbledore makes sense when you think of him as Peter. "please no more" "Kill me instead" "Don't make me" all those comments seem to fit Peter reliving the time he watched James and Lilly Potter die or Voldemort forcing Peter to reveal where the Potters are hiding.

also, the Pheonix... remember, that the Phoenix tears can cure all wounds, yet, why didn't it cure Dumbledore's hand? unless it wouldn't because Peter didn't show the same loyalty Harry did in CoS. :D


One more thing you left out, DDor was pleading for his life, pleading, right before Snape killed him. When I read that, I knew that it wasn't quite right. He is not the kind of person to be pleading, let alone to be caught off gaurd. DDor is the kind of guy who would know exactly when his end it going to be; no pleading involved.

I really like the theory, I really really do. Its very creative and it would make for a great book 7 twist. But I dont believe it is correct. I have reasons that go beyond the story and into what Rowling has said about it in interviews, but if we stick with just what's in the story then we still have three compelling reasons why this could not possibly be true.

First of all, Dumbledore has vast amounts of knowledge about the goings on at Hogwarts in the past. He displays plenty of knowledge that only the real Dumbledore could know. He tells Harry many things only Dumbledore would be able to say. Would Dumbledore share all of this information with Pettigrew? Would he allow Pettigrew to use his bottled thoughts and pensieve?

Second of all, there is the fact that the phoenix did know that Dumbledore had just died. The phoenix, for whatever reason was unable to heal his hand, but it did know this was the true Dumbledore. We know this because of the dramatic phoenix song at the end of the book.

Third of all, Dumbledore's portrait took its place with the portraits of all the previous Hogwarts headmasters. This would not have happened if he had not passed on.

Holy crap, this thread lives still?

Well...a few things that I've thought over relating to Dumbledore's death and the horcruxes, although I kinda feel pathetic for even spending time theorizing.

The horcrux. Wouldn't it be just like Voldemort to pretend a real horcrux was fake as a last line of defense, on the off chance that the horcrux was stolen? I don't think Harry can tell if the horcrux is real or not. Remember that the object itself is actually a locket. In the cave scene (which, no offense, I thought was a pretty lame ending sequence compared to others in the series) Harry said, "Accio Horcrux," not "Accio locket." Yeah, magic could do that, which is why we could theorize forever and get nowhere (which is what we're doing?...) And what happened after he summoned "horcrux?" BANG! It was as if the horcrux moved to his summons and was blocked by the barrier, which triggered the leaping inferi guy.

I think the Regulus A Black theory isn't bad, although it's so popular that I'm almost certain it's wrong. It would make sense that the locket would be in the Black family heirloom, wouldn't it?


Is it just me, or was book 6 really boring?


Yeah, it was. I'm getting events from book 6 mixed up with events from the odd fanfic or so. Not right.

http://www.tshirthell.com/dumbledore.htm

I so totally want one of these!

LMAO. :D

One more thing you left out, DDor was pleading for his life, pleading, right before Snape killed him. When I read that, I knew that it wasn't quite right. He is not the kind of person to be pleading, let alone to be caught off gaurd. DDor is the kind of guy who would know exactly when his end it going to be; no pleading involved.

Hmm I remeber a few pages back that someone suggested DDore was pleading for Harry's life, that Snape would have known Harry was there and that the death Eaters needed to be taken away soon otherwise they might realise it too...

Another theory is that he was pleading to be killed by Snape. Pleading that Snape wouldn't make Draco do it and that he was in so much pain... but yeah tis a bit confusing

I like the Pettigrew theory too but there are too many things to explain like Fawkes etc

Let me put it this way. It wasn't great, it wasn't bad. I wouldn't recommend it to the average person, just fantasy and hp fans.

Seeing as Rowling stated herself that she dislikes the fantasy genre, I don't think that it's recommendable to fantasy fans. I read it, but I didn't like it.

I really like the theory, I really really do. Its very creative and it would make for a great book 7 twist. But I dont believe it is correct. I have reasons that go beyond the story and into what Rowling has said about it in interviews, but if we stick with just what's in the story then we still have three compelling reasons why this could not possibly be true.

First of all, Dumbledore has vast amounts of knowledge about the goings on at Hogwarts in the past. He displays plenty of knowledge that only the real Dumbledore could know. He tells Harry many things only Dumbledore would be able to say. Would Dumbledore share all of this information with Pettigrew? Would he allow Pettigrew to use his bottled thoughts and pensieve?if memories are stored in bottles, why can they not be 'inserted' into another person? the Pensive Seive seems like a regular item used in the wizarding world. Snape had one in his office as well as Dumbledore. and remember in OotP, you get an insight into Dumbledore's view of material possessions. he didn't really care about them.

Second of all, there is the fact that the phoenix did know that Dumbledore had just died. The phoenix, for whatever reason was unable to heal his hand, but it did know this was the true Dumbledore. We know this because of the dramatic phoenix song at the end of the book.no real argument against the phoenix song. except you never know, it could be singing a song because someone it knew (after all, If it was Peter, he was in that office for a year.)

Third of all, Dumbledore's portrait took its place with the portraits of all the previous Hogwarts headmasters. This would not have happened if he had not passed on. ahh... but what is the requirements for that portrait? is it that you have to serve as Headmaster? if so, remember, if it was Peter in Dumbledore's form, then technically Peter was the headmaster for that school year and seeing that he died as Headmaster, would that make his portrait appear as he was as Headmaster. remember, the first and only view of Dumbledore's Portrait was of him sleeping. so who's to say that it's not Peter?

The real telling mark would be if a portrait appears in the Three Broomsticks, and anywhere else that dumbledore calls home.

and this theory is one that popped into my brain while suffering from sleep deprivation... so I don't expect that it won't be right. but it's fun to explore the possibilities.

On the Pettigrew theory... that woulda meant that he was with Harry in the cave... and talking to Malfoy... he's neither that smart nor common sensical... lol dono, I needed a word there :D

On the Pettigrew theory... that woulda meant that he was with Harry in the cave... and talking to Malfoy... he's neither that smart nor common sensical... lol dono, I needed a word there :D

I don't know, what if he was in constant contact with ddore? Is possible...

if memories are stored in bottles, why can they not be 'inserted' into another person? the Pensive Seive seems like a regular item used in the wizarding world. Snape had one in his office as well as Dumbledore. and remember in OotP, you get an insight into Dumbledore's view of material possessions. he didn't really care about them.

no real argument against the phoenix song. except you never know, it could be singing a song because someone it knew (after all, If it was Peter, he was in that office for a year.)

ahh... but what is the requirements for that portrait? is it that you have to serve as Headmaster? if so, remember, if it was Peter in Dumbledore's form, then technically Peter was the headmaster for that school year and seeing that he died as Headmaster, would that make his portrait appear as he was as Headmaster. remember, the first and only view of Dumbledore's Portrait was of him sleeping. so who's to say that it's not Peter?

The real telling mark would be if a portrait appears in the Three Broomsticks, and anywhere else that dumbledore calls home.

and this theory is one that popped into my brain while suffering from sleep deprivation... so I don't expect that it won't be right. but it's fun to explore the possibilities.

Does he call the Three Broomsticks his home then?