NationStates Jolt Archive

This music disgusts me.... I think these students should be in labor units...

typical rapper behavior (http://www.boston.com/news/local/rhode_island/articles/2005/02/06/johnston_students_suspended_for_homemade_rap_cd/)

I'm all for labour camps on that count.

This music disgusts me.... I think these students should be in labor units...

typical rapper behavior (http://www.boston.com/news/local/rhode_island/articles/2005/02/06/johnston_students_suspended_for_homemade_rap_cd/)
Well, I didn't see too much there that shocked me. After all, they are just imitating the rappers they see on TV. And really, it is free speech. And if those girls are as loose as the CD made them out to be, then they really don't have any excuse to be persecuting these boys. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather the CD not have been made and all, but I think the parents and officials are way out of line in their corrections. And labor camps...that is a scary misapplication of "justice."

This music disgusts me.... I think these students should be in labor units...

typical rapper behavior (http://www.boston.com/news/local/rhode_island/articles/2005/02/06/johnston_students_suspended_for_homemade_rap_cd/)

Wow, this is really good news. A group of students were able to, not just create, but market their own product successfully, selling at least 50 copies! This is actually quite an accomplishment. Being able to sell 50 copies of an unsigned musical act in such a small environment (just one school) is an incredible feat. With the added publicity that this has generated, I expect that they will sell many more. These kids have learned a valuable lesson in marketing and entrepeneurship thanks to rap music. They have learned extremely valuable skills about creating a product, marketing it, selling it, and making money. I think its great. Thanks for the link.

Apart from using other students names on the tape and making suggestions to their sexual behavior --which was extremely dumb--, I don't see the problem. It's produced out of school hours, in their spare time. You know, a lot of rock music isn't a whole lot better lyrically from the "I lay in my bed staring up at the ceiling as I think to myself I don't know what I'm feeling / I just wanna grab the Glock and cock it back / kill everyone here, how ... is that.". You haven't heard the song yourself, in its full context, so you can't really judge.

Bah.

Yer age is showing, granpa. Kids are kids are kids...they will always rebel, and do things to make us go "ooooh"...in the 50's, it was hogs n' leather, the 60's were dope and Woodstock, the 70's was disco and Black Panthers, ...etc etc etc.

Yes, I hate the message, BUT I'll defend their right to be teenagers.

Oh, and I'm 43.

...and I like rap.

So much for free speech.

I don't understand why the school was involved at all, or how this is precipitated by rap music in general.

So much for free speech.

I don't understand why the school was involved at all, or how this is precipitated by rap music in general.

You didn't read the whole article.

Well how about:

Defamation, unauthorised solicitation of products on school property?

I'm not a grandpa, I'm 21 years old, and I think this kind of behaviour is quite frankly disgusting.

Any "culture" that encourages gangsterism, gun crime etc should be discouraged.

Well, I didn't see too much there that shocked me. After all, they are just imitating the rappers they see on TV. And really, it is free speech. And if those girls are as loose as the CD made them out to be, then they really don't have any excuse to be persecuting these boys. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather the CD not have been made and all, but I think the parents and officials are way out of line in their corrections. And labor camps...that is a scary misapplication of "justice."


I think that rappers should be sent to labor camps, they degrade women, promote violence, promote truancy, promote drug use, and in general do nothing positive.

And you sound like the type to blame the victim. If someone did that to one of my friends, I'd break all the windows on their house and slash the tires of their car. Its a matter of respect and privacy.

Apart from using other students names on the tape and making suggestions to their sexual behavior --which was extremely dumb--, I don't see the problem. It's produced out of school hours, in their spare time. You know, a lot of rock music isn't a whole lot better lyrically from the "I lay in my bed staring up at the ceiling as I think to myself I don't know what I'm feeling / I just wanna grab the Glock and cock it back / kill everyone here, how ... is that.". You haven't heard the song yourself, in its full context, so you can't really judge.


Perhaps promoting violence, underage drinking, and other things that trash regularly does, I'd say that rock music cannot compare, and at least it takes some talent rather than swearing, and threatening to a beat.

Hmm… I think rap musicians would have more success promoting violence if they actually spoke a proper language…

Bah.

Yer age is showing, granpa. Kids are kids are kids...they will always rebel, and do things to make us go "ooooh"...in the 50's, it was hogs n' leather, the 60's were dope and Woodstock, the 70's was disco and Black Panthers, ...etc etc etc.

Yes, I hate the message, BUT I'll defend their right to be teenagers.

Oh, and I'm 43.

...and I like rap.


I'm 16, almost 17, and I'm disgusted by this stuff. You are probobly an ex-hippie that still has acid flashbacks. What was done to rebel in the 50's, like leather and bikes, or 70's like disco, is nothing like rapping about a girls private life, promoting violence, and promoting the breaking of the law.

This guy would be a good rapper.

http://www.collegehumor.com/?movie_id=81816

You didn't read the whole article.

Yes, I did and I still don't understand why the school was involved. The CD was not produced at the school and selling things in school is not illegal, as far as I know. The school, had it wanted to, could have banned the CD's from school property, but I don't see where it gets the mandate to punish the people who made it.

Also, I don't understand why this is so horrible, or why it is precipitated by rap music in general.

Well how about:

Defamation, unauthorised solicitation of products on school property?

I'm not a grandpa, I'm 21 years old, and I think this kind of behaviour is quite frankly disgusting.

Any "culture" that encourages gangsterism, gun crime etc should be discouraged.
Ooooooo, defamation. This is a fancy quasi legal term for "insulting someone." It isn't fun or nice, but it shouldn't be illegal, and it certainly shouldn't result in labor camps. You guys don't even realize, but you're talking just like Pol Pot or Stalin. They both wanted convervative values too, and they had "reeducation camps" to help with that.
As far as unauthorized solicitation goes, do you really think these kids should have been punished if they were reselling bubble gum? I hope not, at least not to the extreme you are talking about. So be honest and say that you just don't like what it was they were selling, and then we can debate. You'd still be wrong though, because you not liking something just means there is disagrement, and as long as it isn't actually hurting someone, it is part of living in a free society. However, if you wish to emigrate to Beijing or Havana or Pyongyang, you might find more sympathy.

Perhaps promoting violence, underage drinking, and other things that trash regularly does, I'd say that rock music cannot compare, and at least it takes some talent rather than swearing, and threatening to a beat.

Educate yourself:

http://www.ggallin.com/

http://www.musicsonglyrics.com/G/ggallinlyrics/ggallinlyrics.htm

Yes, I did and I still don't understand why the school was involved. The CD was not produced at the school and selling things in school is not illegal, as far as I know. The school, had it wanted to, could have banned the CD's from school property, but I don't see where it gets the mandate to punish the people who made it.

Also, I don't understand why this is so horrible, or why it is precipitated by rap music in general.

It is not illegal, but selling it on school grounds without permission of the school is most likely against their policies.

Hence they are within every right to punish the pupils who sold it.

Furethmore, they aren't threatening them with legal action, they are punishing them accordingly, with a school suspension.

I think that rappers should be sent to labor camps, they degrade women, promote violence, promote truancy, promote drug use, and in general do nothing positive.

So much for free speech.

I have found that alot of this excrement preaches sexism, murder, rape, racism, intolerance and just plain stupid behavoir. It's ugly and has no real redeeming qualities whatsoever! It's a great scourge of our times. It may be "free speach" as some people call it, but it sure as hell isn't responsible!

Social/cultural garbage at it's worse - I say grind the bastards up and use them as fertilzer! That, or as organ donors. That's all there good for....

I'm 42, and I have noticed things just getting worse and worse as the years went by. I say one of these stupid fucks a few years ago with his ugly baggy pants half way down his ass walking down a busy main street with his crack showing! I mean really! I thought it was only babies that couldn't dress themselves....

A clear sign of decadance to be sure. Western civilization (or what's left of it!) is clearly doomed.

Bah.

Yer age is showing, granpa. Kids are kids are kids...they will always rebel, and do things to make us go "ooooh"...in the 50's, it was hogs n' leather, the 60's were dope and Woodstock, the 70's was disco and Black Panthers, ...etc etc etc.

Yes, I hate the message, BUT I'll defend their right to be teenagers.

Oh, and I'm 43.

...and I like rap.
fight the power


I think that rappers should be sent to labor camps, they degrade women, promote violence, promote truancy, promote drug use, and in general do nothing positive.

And you sound like the type to blame the victim. If someone did that to one of my friends, I'd break all the windows on their house and slash the tires of their car. Its a matter of respect and privacy.
as opposed to every other form of mainstream music how?

Educate yourself:

http://www.ggallin.com/

http://www.musicsonglyrics.com/G/ggallinlyrics/ggallinlyrics.htm

:D Goddamnit! You beat me to it again!

I think that rappers should be sent to labor camps, they degrade women, promote violence, promote truancy, promote drug use, and in general do nothing positive.Maybe they dont' do anythign positive, but they can't really be blamed for the stupidity of others. Unless you want to start up the thought police, anyway.
And you sound like the type to blame the victim. If someone did that to one of my friends, I'd break all the windows on their house and slash the tires of their car. Its a matter of respect and privacy.
I am not blaming the victim. I just don't see any victim. If these girls were acting like the CD says they were, then their "private life" was shared by a whole lot of guys. I think that behavior is every bit as disgusting as this tape. And as far as your overreaction goes, you would be breaking the law. These guys didn't do anything wrong. Sure their disgusting, and I certainly wouldn't let my daughter anywhere near them, but they aren't breaking the law.

I'm 16, almost 17, and I'm disgusted by this stuff. You are probobly an ex-hippie that still has acid flashbacks. What was done to rebel in the 50's, like leather and bikes, or 70's like disco, is nothing like rapping about a girls private life, promoting violence, and promoting the breaking of the law. My thoughts exactly, except that I'm 15. You have to draw the line at some point, and "inciting violence" - if they were doing that, or defamation/slander - cannot be allowed.

It is not illegal, but selling it on school grounds without permission of the school is most likely against their policies.

That is not mentioned in the article, nor is it mentioned that the CD's were sold on school property; just "circulated".

Hence they are within every right to punish the pupils who sold it.

Furethmore, they aren't threatening them with legal action, they are punishing them accordingly, with a school suspension.

The people who should be suing are the reprimanded students for violation of their first amendment rights. At least that's what they would be doing here, since schools aren't allowed to encroach on freedom of speech.

Maybe they dont' do anythign positive, but they can't really be blamed for the stupidity of others. Unless you want to start up the thought police, anyway.

I am not blaming the victim. I just don't see any victim. If these girls were acting like the CD says they were, then their "private life" was shared by a whole lot of guys. I think that behavior is every bit as disgusting as this tape. And as far as your overreaction goes, you would be breaking the law. These guys didn't do anything wrong. Sure their disgusting, and I certainly wouldn't let my daughter anywhere near them, but they aren't breaking the law. However, what if the claims about the girls were false? Can you imagine suddenly having everyone assume you're a whore? Not nice at all (yes, I'm leaping to conclusions).

It is not illegal, but selling it on school grounds without permission of the school is most likely against their policies.

Hence they are within every right to punish the pupils who sold it.

Furethmore, they aren't threatening them with legal action, they are punishing them accordingly, with a school suspension.
Like I said above, the only reason they are using this excuse is because they don't like the content. If it was bubble gum, no-one would be getting punished.

I have found that alot of this excrement preaches sexism, murder, rape, racism, intolerance and just plain stupid behavoir. It's ugly and has no real redeeming qualities whatsoever! It's a great scourge of our times. It may be "free speach" as some people call it, but it sure as hell isn't responsible!

Social/cultural garbage at it's worse - I say grind the bastards up and use them as fertilzer! That, or as organ donors. That's all there good for....

I'm 42, and I have noticed things just getting worse and worse as the years went by. I say one of these stupid fucks a few years ago with his ugly baggy pants half way down his ass walking down a busy main street with his crack showing! I mean really! I thought it was only babies that couldn't dress themselves....

A clear sign of decadance to be sure. Western civilization (or what's left of it!) is clearly doomed.

Yes, this young person's 'rock and roll music' as the hipsters call it really is a terrible thing. Next thing we know they will be allowed to show Elvis Presley from the waist down on TV.

However, what if the claims about the girls were false? Can you imagine suddenly having everyone assume you're a whore? Not nice at all (yes, I'm leaping to conclusions).
True. And it wouldn't be nice, but that rumor could be spread without a CD, and it would still be mean, but it would still be legal.

I have found that alot of this excrement preaches sexism, murder, rape, racism, intolerance and just plain stupid behavoir. It's ugly and has no real redeeming qualities whatsoever! It's a great scourge of our times. It may be "free speach" as some people call it, but it sure as hell isn't responsible!

Social/cultural garbage at it's worse - I say grind the bastards up and use them as fertilzer! That, or as organ donors. That's all there good for....

I'm 42, and I have noticed things just getting worse and worse as the years went by. I say one of these stupid fucks a few years ago with his ugly baggy pants half way down his ass walking down a busy main street with his crack showing! I mean really! I thought it was only babies that couldn't dress themselves....

A clear sign of decadance to be sure. Western civilization (or what's left of it!) is clearly doomed.
judging by your post, i whole heartedly agree


when some one thinks other people should be ground up or forced to be organ donors just for maknig money and/or doing something they like to do, i would be forced to say we are all quite fucked as apparently no one gives a damn about the rights of other people or free speech or anything but their own god damn opinion

Ooooooo, defamation. This is a fancy quasi legal term for "insulting someone." It isn't fun or nice, but it shouldn't be illegal, and it certainly shouldn't result in labor camps. You guys don't even realize, but you're talking just like Pol Pot or Stalin. They both wanted convervative values too, and they had "reeducation camps" to help with that.
As far as unauthorized solicitation goes, do you really think these kids should have been punished if they were reselling bubble gum? I hope not, at least not to the extreme you are talking about. So be honest and say that you just don't like what it was they were selling, and then we can debate. You'd still be wrong though, because you not liking something just means there is disagrement, and as long as it isn't actually hurting someone, it is part of living in a free society. However, if you wish to emigrate to Beijing or Havana or Pyongyang, you might find more sympathy.

No I don't like what they were selling, you're right.

And I'll agree with you that in certain circumstances, defamation is a piss poor excuse for suing someone. In this case, nobody is being sued, but it is still humiliating for those involved.

As for the idea of labour camps, I was joking, of course I don't think they should actually go to labour camps, thats a stupid idea, I thought it would've been obvious.

As for the solicitation of the cd on school grounds, no they wouldn't have been punished for selling bubblegum on school grounds, but bubblegum doesn't have the potential to harm the schools reputation, nor does it promote gangsterism/guncrime etc etc.

I am right though, because this is hurting someone, your argument hinges around the idea that laws against defamation are wrong. They do however exist, so if this case constitutes defamation, which I beleive it does, then someone is being hurt.

My thoughts exactly, except that I'm 15. You have to draw the line at some point, and "inciting violence" - if they were doing that, or defamation/slander - cannot be allowed.
You only say this because you have no idea what was involved with disco and rock, because you have grown up with that as a set point. It was every bit as salacious to those in that time as this is to us.

judging by your post, i whole heartedly agree

when some one thinks other people should be ground up or forced to be organ donors just for maknig money and/or doing something they like to do, i would be forced to say we are all quite fucked as apparently no one gives a damn about the rights of other people or free speech or anything but their own god damn opinion

Well written!

True. And it wouldn't be nice, but that rumor could be spread without a CD, and it would still be mean, but it would still be legal. That would come under the heading of slander, which is illegal with good reason as it could damage your chances for a job or whatnot. There's also "inciting to violence" which is a crime.

On the whole the only things that are inappropiate is the mention of particular people. This could actually have an effect on education. Other than that its not really any of the schools business if the music was made without the help of the school or on the school grounds then it really has nothing to do with them. If this was a British school the only thing that the school could do is ban the CD from being on the school grounds and confiscate any CD found

That is not mentioned in the article, nor is it mentioned that the CD's were sold on school property; just "circulated".



The people who should be suing are the reprimanded students for violation of their first amendment rights. At least that's what they would be doing here, since schools aren't allowed to encroach on freedom of speech.

It does state that 50 copies were "sold". I don't think its an unreasonable assumption that they were sold on school grounds.

You only say this because you have no idea what was involved with disco and rock, because you have grown up with that as a set point. It was every bit as salacious to those in that time as this is to us. What bothers me is the mentioning of the girls - if it is true, then… well, don't know. But if it is a false rumour, it could have an adverse effect on their education and chances for a job.

About disco and rock - they didn't go as far as incitement to this, that and the other, and (possible) slander.

I am right though, because this is hurting someone, your argument hinges around the idea that laws against defamation are wrong. They do however exist, so if this case constitutes defamation, which I beleive it does, then someone is being hurt.Thank you for being less inflammatory. I do think laws against defamation are on shaky legal ground. But like I said, if the statments they made about others were true, then I think they are legal. If they are false, then they are mean, and spiteful, but still legal. If they are intended to harm, or incite to harm, then you might have a case. The stuff about guns and things concerns me only becaause it shows that the kids truly don't understand what guns do. This could be solved by responsibly showing them what they do and how to use them. Learning to use guns engenders respect for them (but that is another topic)

In short, sure, I think this is horrible, but it is more a cultural problem, and we in the West tend to think culture can be fixed with laws. It can't. It has to be personal action and responsibility.

It does state that 50 copies were "sold". I don't think its an unreasonable assumption that they were sold on school grounds.

And only if the school prohibits any and all selling by students of any sort of item on school property would this be ground for school involvement via a punishment. If they single out this CD or anything like it just because they don't like the message, then it is clearly wrong and overstepping of their authority.

Still makes no sense why they were punished by the school. And if the CD's were defamatory, the people defamed are the ones to press charges/sue.

My thoughts exactly, except that I'm 15. You have to draw the line at some point, and "inciting violence" - if they were doing that, or defamation/slander - cannot be allowed.

Music no matter what style incites emotions. Theres not a lot that can be done about that really just as any other art form. The fact that this is being given attention is only going to promote that music in the area because now people are gonna think "whats all the fuss about". If a couple of kids wanna be "hardcore" "gangsta" or any lovely terms that we have these days so be it. They will either grow out of it or carry on, its their life let them do what they want.
The strange thing is the school have decided to suspend them. So what are they going to do in that spare time they now have? Well they won't be catching up on their homework now will they

I think that rappers should be sent to labor camps, they degrade women, promote violence, promote truancy, promote drug use, and in general do nothing positive.

And you sound like the type to blame the victim. If someone did that to one of my friends, I'd break all the windows on their house and slash the tires of their car. Its a matter of respect and privacy.
once them windows start to break you might find out the hard way that that glock talk wasn't just blowing smoke.

One way of looking at rap is as standup comedy with the offensive level turned way up.

If the girls were acting as they said, sure it's unpleasant, but it's also just adding a music track to school rumours.

If not, then it's lies and hence bad.

My objection to this is only that they were selling material on school properties that wasn't authorised by the big wigs.

I may not like rap, but its got every right to its existance.

All this brew-ha-ha about rap/TV/computer games/marilyn manson/promiscuity is avoiding the central issue, which is that parents have to keep their children informed and treat them with a modicum of respect.

Jumping up and down about how offensive rap is and how it's tainting your child is basically admitting "I can't raise my own child well enough to live right, I want the government/someone else to do the work."

That would come under the heading of slander, which is illegal with good reason as it could damage your chances for a job or whatnot. There's also "inciting to violence" which is a crime.
inciting violence can almost never be applied to a music cd. i've never heard of a case where it has been successfully applied to such a case. inciting violence is applied to the guy in the crowd who says," now lets burn down the liquor store" never the guy who sings about burning on down. its a matter of advocasy and immediate threat, otherwise the speech is protected.


libel on the other hand probably could be applied to this case, but that is almost always(at least in america) a civil action. the girls could certainly sue, but probably not prosecute.

Alot of you seem to be missing the whole point. What rap promoted in this case is that instead of these kids just letting the anger boil up inside of them (which is what leads to columbine type incidents), they found an outlet for it. Instead of taking a glock to the school, they can vent the anger through the lyrics. Not only that, but these kids learned an invaluable lesson in entrepeneurship, a lesson that could one day make the difference between their living in poverty and their being successful. They learned that if you work for something you can succeed. They managed to sell 50+ copies of a product they created all on their own without the help of adults. They designed it, created it, marketed it, and sold it. They learned about business, they learned about marketing, they even learned valuable lessons about corporate responsability and ethics (due to the backlash against their lyrics). Rap music was an excellent influence for the kids in this case.

Alot of you seem to be missing the whole point. What rap promoted in this case is that instead of these kids just letting the anger boil up inside of them (which is what leads to columbine type incidents), they found an outlet for it. Instead of taking a glock to the school, they can vent the anger through the lyrics. Not only that, but these kids learned an invaluable lesson in entrepeneurship, a lesson that could one day make the difference between their living in poverty and their being successful. They learned that if you work for something you can succeed. They managed to sell 50+ copies of a product they created all on their own without the help of adults. They designed it, created it, marketed it, and sold it. They learned about business, they learned about marketing, they even learned valuable lessons about corporate responsability and ethics (due to the backlash against their lyrics). Rap music was an excellent influence for the kids in this case. I just wish that rappers would learn English…

O_O.

*sniff* Bye bye, free speech. I hardly knew ye....*sniff*

*breaks down crying*

"WHHHYYYYYY!!! WHY DID THE FACISTS WIN! WHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYY!!!!"

...all you're good for is pissing off people who don't get offended by anything that doesn't fit into their narrow world view....


This is a hilarious post. Seeing as you were obviously offended by something that doesnt fit into your narrow world view.

This is a hilarious post. Seeing as you were obviously offended by something that doesnt fit into your narrow world view.
yeah im offended by ignorant intolerance

free speech.exactamente

I'm not a grandpa, I'm 21 years old.you may or may not be 21...but my Grampa would 100% agree with you on this issue
Well how about Defamation.they are Inocent untill proven Guilty...just like eminem.

i read the article and it seems like typical teen behavior to me

my brother was doing "similar" stuff back in 1963. it was hilarious and it pissed off the administration just as much.

we've had 40+ years of advocating sex drugs rock and roll and revolution. whats so new?

It is not illegal, but selling it on school grounds without permission of the school is most likely against their policies.
All they could legally do at this point...is BAN the CD from school...

But the suspension should be appealed in court and domages should be asked from the Judge.
Free Speech...either we have it...or we dont...No half-way compromises work with me.

I'm only 15 and I may sound like an old man for saying this, but when I see the sort of lyrics in rap music I can't help but think that western society is rapidly going down the toilet.

It may be "free speach" as some people call it, but it sure as hell isn't responsible!.granted, but iresponsible off school Ground...off school hours.

It is a Police matter...

Maybe MichaelJackson should call the police...
see what they say :D

just draft them to the army. that would fix these "gangstas"

...when I see the sort of lyrics in rap music I can't help but think that western society is rapidly going down the toilet.You need lyrics for that? :gundge:

Everything except classical music is complete and utter crap.

You need lyrics for that? :gundge:
Nah, it's just one of many things. But the lyrics are more apparant than anything.

dp

Educate yourself:

http://www.ggallin.com/

http://www.musicsonglyrics.com/G/ggallinlyrics/ggallinlyrics.htm
gg allin was a god, of course he did do some time for his antics

It does state that 50 copies were "sold". I don't think its an unreasonable assumption that they were sold on school grounds.
51! I just placed an order on eBay :D

Ooooooo, defamation. This is a fancy quasi legal term for "insulting someone."

Characther assination and deformation can come in many forms. Its not just "Insulting someone" as you put it. It can be many things

Libel/Slander = Printing/Saying something about someone else which is not true, but potraying it as true

Deformation = Offically insulting to the point of untruth (not actually saying an untruth but the insults take out of context to far. Note, this does not threaten human rights as it only affects companies/governemts/media etc. Individuals cannot be prosecuted under this, unless the individual is attacked within the corperation)

Everything except classical music is complete and utter crap.

A lot of the mainstream stuff you hear on the radio does tend to be pretty crap. But that does not mean that all non-classical music is bad.

A lot of the mainstream stuff you hear on the radio does tend to be pretty crap. But that does not mean that all non-classical music is bad.
like i said, i am offended by uninformed intolerance

the best stuff is the stuff that doesnt go mainstream and isnt picked up by big companies 98% of the time, because then its all about money rather than the art

Well how about:

Defamation, unauthorised solicitation of products on school property?

I'm not a grandpa, I'm 21 years old, and I think this kind of behaviour is quite frankly disgusting.

Any "culture" that encourages gangsterism, gun crime etc should be discouraged.
Well, start discouraging the greater chicagoland area then. In fact, with the gov. of the city of chicago alone you've got your hands full.

If this was a British school the only thing that the school could do is ban the CD from being on the school grounds and confiscate any CD found
British, and almost every other democratic country...

Suspension would be legal in China, Iran, and some Muslim countries.

But those asian students would not have a market for that CD anyways.

you can't make crap without rap.

meh, old school rap is ok... this whole gangster rap is annoying as fuck though. hell, 50 cent doesn't even really rap, he just kinda talks... i don't see how that's talented at all.

but hey, whatever, someday peopel will realise how stupid it is and stop listening to it.

This music disgusts me.... I think these students should be in labor units...

typical rapper behavior (http://www.boston.com/news/local/rhode_island/articles/2005/02/06/johnston_students_suspended_for_homemade_rap_cd/)
1 - "...cd was made off school grounds..." - the school has NO business taking "disciplinary" action whatsoever. THINK about this - you engage in perfectly legal speech in your spare time at home and the school "punishes" you? If I were one of the parents I'd sue and win hands-down, probably with damages. Then I'd be having a talk with my kid...

2 - Has nothing to do with rap. When I was in high school, back in the prehistoric 80s, we made metal songs about one girl we called the "slam pig" because she was easy, and many others that were mostly about smoking weed, drinking, and blowing up the school. Guess what? Everyone involved grew up healthy and happy, because saying offensive stuff is normal teenage behavior.

3 - guess what? Just because something disgusts you doesn't mean the people who say it go to jail. Unless, of course, you're in North Korea

British, and almost every other democratic country...

Suspension would be legal in China, Iran, and some Muslim countries.

But those asian students would not have a market for that CD anyways.
I think harsher action needs to be taken with these sort of examples where the school is overstepping its own authority

You didn't read the whole article.
He probably did, because the school has NO business involving themselves in stuff that happens OFF school grounds not during school hours and not using any school equipment.

I think that rappers should be sent to labor camps, they degrade women, promote violence, promote truancy, promote drug use, and in general do nothing positive.

And you sound like the type to blame the victim. If someone did that to one of my friends, I'd break all the windows on their house and slash the tires of their car. Its a matter of respect and privacy.
Usually, people try to hide it when they're such hypocrites, but you don't even see it, do you? You must be very young.

Perhaps promoting violence, underage drinking, and other things that trash regularly does, I'd say that rock music cannot compare, and at least it takes some talent rather than swearing, and threatening to a beat.
Then you just don't know much about rock or rap music. Plenty of rock is much worse than anything any rapper ever recorded, as far as offensive lyrics.

It is not illegal, but selling it on school grounds without permission of the school is most likely against their policies.

Hence they are within every right to punish the pupils who sold it.

Nowhere in the article does it say they sold the CDS on school grounds.

However, what if the claims about the girls were false? Can you imagine suddenly having everyone assume you're a whore? Not nice at all (yes, I'm leaping to conclusions).
Maybe those girls have civil suits to file, or maybe they're whores in real life.

I think in general, music has become a fantasy world...I live in a rural area full of farms and cows. And yet, quite a few people in my school dress "gangsta" as they like to tell everyone...and they rap...about living on the streets and how hard life is and all that...again, these are all middle class white kids living on farms...hey, its funny if nothing else. I think to bring everyone back to reality, action should go along with lyrics. Like, everytime someone raps a threat about shooting someone, they should be shot in a nonvital area and given immediate medical attention...see...then, maybe they'll think: hey...this is what I'm threatening to do to people...that really hurt...maybe I'll stop.

*shrugs*or not...

It does state that 50 copies were "sold". I don't think its an unreasonable assumption that they were sold on school grounds.
Yes, it is a totally unreasonable assumption. Jesus, don't they teach you kids logic, debate, math, reasoning, any of this any more?

What bothers me is the mentioning of the girls - if it is true, then… well, don't know. But if it is a false rumour, it could have an adverse effect on their education and chances for a job.

About disco and rock - they didn't go as far as incitement to this, that and the other, and (possible) slander.
Yes they always have, and still do. Shall I start posting lyrics or could you get off your ass...no wait, stay on your lazy ass and use google....and go learn a little bit before you shoot off your mouth?

I'm only 15 and I may sound like an old man for saying this, but when I see the sort of lyrics in rap music I can't help but think that western society is rapidly going down the toilet.
That's because you're only 15 and don't quite have the background to realize that people have been saying the exact same things in literature, poetry, music, etc. for thousands and thousands of years.

You want to hear someone talking endlessly about taking a shit (using that word)? Go read the writings of Martin Luthor, arguably one of those responsible for the right-wing Xtian morons trying to ban the word today.

If someone did that to one of my friends, I'd break all the windows on their house and slash the tires of their car. Its a matter of respect and privacy.
Here is the Final score...the CD kids get money from the School, for unwarranted suspension.
Kahta gets to go Jail. do the Crime do the time.

Rap owns, I am sorry. And not because it always has to be serious. Sometimes rap is so fantastical, so violent, and so obnoxious, that you can't help while rapping along. And what happened to freedom of speech? as long as hate messages are not blared, than its fine. If their are, then that's a different story.

But how can you deny the lyrical power of Tupac, or Eminem, or even the most original gangstas of them all, NWA? I mean, you may not agree with every single message they ahve, but remember, they are human, and are entitled to their opinion. if you don't like their message, DON'T LISTEN TO IT. Let those who listen to it "suffer" and "turn into juveniles" with peace. They are going to say "ho", and "bitch", and "nigga", and if that's not your cup of tea, just ignore it and go ride into the sunset of your self-righteous world.

and by God, the best rap is by far better than the best of "punk", "emo" and "christian rock". There is rock that is great, that has stood the test of time, but a lot of it is quite crappy. Take away the whitey angst and strap me with a gat; turn the wrong way and ur face'll be hit with my bat!!

OWNED...... :D

Here is the Final score...the CD kids get money from the School, for unwarrated suspension.
Kahta gets to go Jail. do the Crime do the time.

funny in a way this proves that rap music "incites violence". But not with the people who like it :D

And what happened to freedom of speech? as long as hate messages are not blared, than its fine. If their are, then that's a different story.
If you let the government decide what is "hate speech" and not allowed, you end up very rapidly having the opposition party's speech declared "hate speech". Didn't our Swedish friends (who I generally admire) recently arrest a Christian preacher for saying that homosexuality is wrong? That's where that goes.

and by God, the best rap is by far better than the best of "punk"
This totally meaningless subjective statement shows a lack of understanding of the history of rap, which certainly owes something to early punk (and yes, punk owes lots to jazz and other black music, which owe something to African music, etc etc. Music is music, there are all kinds and there is little point in trying to objectively rate different genres against each other)

Wow, this is really good news. A group of students were able to, not just create, but market their own product successfully, selling at least 50 copies! This is actually quite an accomplishment. Being able to sell 50 copies of an unsigned musical act in such a small environment (just one school) is an incredible feat. With the added publicity that this has generated, I expect that they will sell many more. These kids have learned a valuable lesson in marketing and entrepeneurship thanks to rap music. They have learned extremely valuable skills about creating a product, marketing it, selling it, and making money. I think its great. Thanks for the link.



My father tells me when he was a lad in school, his experiences with hearing boys boast of how many girls they "laid", was just crap and they were just talking big. He said the folks who were drinking and having sex, never really bragged about it.

In my experiences in high school, it was somewhat the same, but in a different way. I think a lot of the people bragging about it, well they were sometimes right, because I know of people who were caught in school doing stuff like that. Anyway, as for drugs, the people who say, "Wow man, I snort coke" no they don't, most people who do drugs, just shut up and do them when nobody is around, if they're into drugs. If they're into trying to impress others, they may do it once or twice when others are around.


But anyway, probably 50+% of all those "loose" girls as you call them, are just the victims of a smear campaign by boys with an axe to grind.

But anyway, probably 50+% of all those "loose" girls as you call them, are just the victims of a smear campaign by boys with an axe to grind.
Ja, usually the boys they turn down

Wow, this is really good news. A group of students were able to, not just create, but market their own product successfully, selling at least 50 copies! This is actually quite an accomplishment. Being able to sell 50 copies of an unsigned musical act in such a small environment (just one school) is an incredible feat. With the added publicity that this has generated, I expect that they will sell many more. These kids have learned a valuable lesson in marketing and entrepeneurship thanks to rap music. They have learned extremely valuable skills about creating a product, marketing it, selling it, and making money. I think its great. Thanks for the link.You know what?...at the end of the day...these CDkids...they owe a "ThankYouVeryMuch" to the School Administrator.

He made them famous...more than a lifetime efforts for American-Idol.

You know what?...at the end of the day...these CDkids...they owe a "ThankYouVeryMuch" to the School Administrator.

He made them famous...more than a lifetime efforts for American-Idol.
Seriously....I'd buy a copy of this CD now just out of curiousity, and I don't even like rap!

Educate yourself:

http://www.ggallin.com/

http://www.musicsonglyrics.com/G/ggallinlyrics/ggallinlyrics.htm


That is the worst rock music. Some rock music promotes bad things, all rap music, a perversion of music, is awful.

If these girls were acting like the CD says they were, then their "private life" was shared by a whole lot of guys.

So, everyone should know their private life?

That is the worst rock music. Some rock music promotes bad things, all rap music, a perversion of music, is awful.
Anyone puerile enough to lable a whole genre of music a "perversion" just because they don't like it (and clearly don't know jack about it) is just there to be laughed at.

BTW I don't like rap music, but I like hypocritical, ignorant blather even less

once them windows start to break you might find out the hard way that that glock talk wasn't just blowing smoke.

Yeah, I'm sure it was blowing smoke, because this town is a suburban town of people that talk tough and do nothing.

http://www.city-data.com/zips/02919.html

Its about 99.994% white. They were talking about Glocks because their favorite rappers talk about them.

I think in general, music has become a fantasy world...I live in a rural area full of farms and cows. And yet, quite a few people in my school dress "gangsta" as they like to tell everyone...and they rap...about living on the streets and how hard life is and all that...again, these are all middle class white kids living on farms...hey, its funny if nothing else. I think to bring everyone back to reality, action should go along with lyrics. Like, everytime someone raps a threat about shooting someone, they should be shot in a nonvital area and given immediate medical attention...see...then, maybe they'll think: hey...this is what I'm threatening to do to people...that really hurt...maybe I'll stop.

*shrugs*or not... What about the metal songs I make about Armageddon and destroying the world? How can you reciprocate that onto me - slaughter the British Isles in a non-vital area? ;)

When I was in high school, back in the prehistoric 80s, we made metal songs about one girl we called the "slam pig" because she was easy, and many others that were mostly about smoking weed, drinking, and blowing up the school. Guess what? Everyone involved grew up healthy and happy, because saying offensive stuff is normal teenage behavior.


So, you live a normal life, do you live in the suburbs with a wife and 2 kids? Are you even married?

So, everyone should know their private life?
What I am saying is that they made their private life very public apparently. I think parents in the article are probably venting their frustration and anger at their own presumably trampish daughters on the guys who made the CD. Again, please read the reast of my posts above(all of them) to see what I am saying, I don't like this, but it isn't illegal.

Anyone puerile enough to lable a whole genre of music a "perversion" just because they don't like it (and clearly don't know jack about it) is just there to be laughed at.

BTW I don't like rap music, but I like hypocritical, ignorant blather even less
I agree with the sentiment if not the form. I like some rap music, but not all of it, and a lot of it is excrable, but it isn't illegal unless they are inciting or intending harm with it.

So much for free speech.

Free speech is not the freedom to be rude or vulgar, its the freedom to protest and speak against the government.

So, you live a normal life, do you live in the suburbs with a wife and 2 kids? Are you even married?
I'm a well paid professional at an advertising agency, I live with my wife and ONE kid in New York City, because the suburbs are for the brain dead and children are expensive. Any more questions, kid?

What I am saying is that they made their private life very public apparently. I think parents in the article are probably venting their frustration and anger at their own presumably trampish daughters on the guys who made the CD. Again, please read the reast of my posts above(all of them) to see what I am saying, I don't like this, but it isn't illegal.

So, you know for a fact that they slept around? It doesn't matter what they did in their PRIVATE LIFE because its PRIVATE. It doesn't matter that they slept with every guy in the school, it doesn't need to be spoken about.

Actually, there are good types of rap. Basically rap in any language I can't understand.

Free speech is not the freedom to be rude or vulgar, its the freedom to protest and speak against the government.
Actually, it is the freedom to be rude, vulgar, offensive, racist, anything you like, as long as it isn't a direct threat to others (ie, shouting "fire" in the crowded room, or egging an angry crowd on to an act of violence)

Unless, of course, you're in some communist dictatorship, in which case you'd be correct.

it doesn't need to be spoken about.
watch out everyone for this particular formulation "...it doesn't need to..." and "...there's no reason to..." always lead to the broken logic of the censor.

So there's no need for it? So what? There's no need for you to clog this board with your misinterpretation of the first amendment, but you're free to do so.

So, you know for a fact that they slept around? It doesn't matter what they did in their PRIVATE LIFE because its PRIVATE. It doesn't matter that they slept with every guy in the school, it doesn't need to be spoken about.
Doesn't NEED to. True. But that doesn't make it illegal. And I would add that you need to read my posts above. I don't know that they slept around, and I addressed that above. I am not going to repeat myself to enable your laziness.

Kahta, it sounds like you're getting all worked up, because you're making less sense and more a fool of yourself with every post. Go do something else for a while, something relaxing like reading the constitution, then come back.

Here is the Final score...the CD kids get money from the School, for unwarranted suspension.
Kahta gets to go Jail. do the Crime do the time.

I'm just saying, thats what I would do, if someone did it to any of my friends. If someone on the jury feels one was justified in a crime, even if there was all the evidence in the world to support that one did that crime, the jury could say one was not guilty, and that would be the end of the trial, that person would be found "Not Guilty"

Why are we talking about music? It's not even music, all of the "songs" are poorly thrown together sound fragment with inane babbling in between about bitches, n***az and lots of big bux. Oh wait, I just described the "horribly cliche image of rap music which is a lot more diverse than you can imagine because you never heard it so I advise you to listen to because you never listened to what they said because they are telling a story of how bad life is in da ghetto and on da streetz".

PS: call me a conservative right wing Bush lover who is bent on destroying the tenet of free speech and the love spreaded by rap. I don't care.

I'm just saying, thats what I would do, if someone did it to any of my friends. If someone on the jury feels one was justified in a crime, even if there was all the evidence in the world to support that one did that crime, the jury could say one was not guilty, and that would be the end of the trial, that person would be found "Not Guilty"
Ahh, the "jury nullification defense"...sorry, but that's been shot down in case after case. Amazing that you know about that (well, sortof) but you don't even know what "freedom of speech" means

Fine Guffingford. Your a conservative right wing Bush lover who is bent on destroying the tenet of free speech and the love spreaded by rap. REmind to bust a gat in yo' ass when I get the chance. :cool:

Why are we talking about music? It's not even music, all of the "songs" are poorly thrown together sound fragment with inane babbling in between about bitches, n***az and lots of big bux. Oh wait, I just described the "horribly cliche image of rap music which is a lot more diverse than you can imagine because you never heard it so I advise you to listen to because you never listened to what they said because they are telling a story of how bad life is in da ghetto and on da streetz".

PS: call me a conservative right wing Bush lover who is bent on destroying the tenet of free speech and the love spreaded by rap. I don't care.
Since you seem to have at least some passing awareness that your idea of rap is an inaccurate stereotype based on a small sample of the worst of it, you're pointed out your own stupidity better than anyone could.

I'm just saying, thats what I would do, if someone did it to any of my friends. If someone on the jury feels one was justified in a crime, even if there was all the evidence in the world to support that one did that crime, the jury could say one was not guilty, and that would be the end of the trial, that person would be found "Not Guilty"
So let's play prosecution attorney. "This person has not denied slashing tires, and breaking windows because a few of his friends were called nasty names in a public forum. The papers may call me nasty names tomorrow because of my prosecution of this lovely vigilante, but it doesn't mean I have any right to go out and break anyone's windows. Think what would happen if common citizens took the law into their own hands without due process. Think, and vote according to that thought"
*Jury leaves, comes back in five minutes later*
Judge:That was rather quick
Jury foreman:sorry we were so slow, but I had to get a drink of water on the way in. This guy is guilty first and last. He didn't even contest.
Judge: Case closed.

Fine Guffingford. Your a conservative right wing Bush lover who is bent on destroying the tenet of free speech and the love spreaded by rap. REmind to bust a gat in yo' ass when I get the chance. :cool:
If he's that conservative he'd probably shoot you from a 100 meters.

If he's that conservative he'd probably shoot you from a 100 meters.
If he was a REAL conservative he would care about free speech and would not shoot anyone from 100 meters, too much chance of hitting the wrong target.

Since you seem to have at least some passing awareness that your idea of rap is an inaccurate stereotype based on a small sample of the worst of it, you're pointed out your own stupidity better than anyone could.Thanks for calling me stupid.

I don't care what you say, rap is plain dumb, no matter what kind of excuse people have to let you listen to is.

If he was a REAL conservative he would care about free speech and would not shoot anyone from 100 meters, too much chance of hitting the wrong target.
Pretty much any .308 hunting rifle with a 10X magnification scope would work.

If he was a REAL conservative he would care about free speech and would not shoot anyone from 100 meters, too much chance of hitting the wrong target.Actually, if you missed your target at 100 meters (assuming you are using a rifle) you aren't a real conservative. That is point blank range where I come from.

Thanks for calling me stupid.
You said something stupid, you even expressed some awareness that you were doing so, what do you expect? Anyway, you're welcome.

[/QUOTE]I don't care what you say, rap is plain dumb, no matter what kind of excuse people have to let you listen to is.[/QUOTE]
Nobody needs an 'excuse' to 'let' someone listen to the music of their choice.

I personally don't like rap, except maybe the Beastie Boys and one or two songs from the old days, but your statements are based on ignorance and untruth, so why should we care what you say?

That is the worst rock music. Some rock music promotes bad things, all rap music, a perversion of music, is awful.

WTF? GG Allin fuckin' owns!

Pretty much any .308 hunting rifle with a 10X magnification scope would work.
And that's just insurance. With iron sights I can easily hit a half-dollar target at 100 meters

-There is a hell of a lot worse than rap music. Some metal, for example, promotes hate crimes, rape, racism, sexism, homophobic views....

-Just because something promotes something doesn't mean everyone is going to follow it. I listen to metal promoting the stuff above. But I listen for the music and the lyrics don't change any of my views whatsoever.

-These views are around. Getting rid of music that has these views won't change anything, just ignite anger. Its stupid pretending people don't have these views. Once you accept they exist you can challenge them, argue why they are ignorant, hurtful etc and get rid of them.

-Free speech anyone? People have the right to say what they want as long as it doesn't threaten anyone. As I said above, you can't ignore these views and you have to face them and deal with them.

Oh NO!!! these students are trying to vent their anger in a positive manner. I mean come on, it's better if they rap about it then actually use violence.

Actually, if you missed your target at 100 meters (assuming you are using a rifle) you aren't a real conservative. That is point blank range where I come from.
Not the point. It wouldn't be conservative shooting to assume that nothing will go wrong and throw your shot off on a heavily populated message board...but this is getting really silly now...

And that's just insurance. With iron sights I can easily hit a half-dollar target at 100 meters
I'd bet $5 that I could too; I just wouldn't bet the life of anyone who might wander in front of me at the last moment.

Dumb kids. This is not proof that rap is bad, this is proof that kids these days are getting dumber and dumber.

-There is a hell of a lot worse than rap music. Some metal, for example, promotes hate crimes, rape, racism, sexism, homophobic views.... You started strong, but then you weakened your point. Crimes and rape are bad, the others are opinions. They may not be liked or popular with your crowd of friends, but it doesn't make them wrong, or illegal.

-Just because something promotes something doesn't mean everyone is going to follow it. I listen to metal promoting the stuff above. But I listen for the music and the lyrics don't change any of my views whatsoever.

-These views are around. Getting rid of music that has these views won't change anything, just ignite anger. Its stupid pretending people don't have these views. Once you accept they exist you can challenge them, argue why they are ignorant, hurtful etc and get rid of them.

-Free speech anyone? People have the right to say what they want as long as it doesn't threaten anyone. As I said above, you can't ignore these views and you have to face them and deal with them.Right on.

Actually, it is the freedom to be rude, vulgar, offensive, racist, anything you like, as long as it isn't a direct threat to others (ie, shouting "fire" in the crowded room, or egging an angry crowd on to an act of violence)

Unless, of course, you're in some communist dictatorship, in which case you'd be correct.


Thats how others interpret it. Its real reason was to allow people to protest against the government.

Any "culture" that encourages gangsterism, gun crime etc should be discouraged.

You mean like US culture where imperialism in the middle east is encouraged and everyone loves guns.

Thats how others interpret it. Its real reason was to allow people to protest against the government.
Really? So you know something that all the judges, lawyers, ACLU, etc. don't?

Stupid kids in that town (actually I shouldn't really generalize, cause I know someone from there but whatever), when will they learn that rap sucks. I know of people who sold more unsigned and it was actual MUSIC.

So let's play prosecution attorney. "This person has not denied slashing tires, and breaking windows because a few of his friends were called nasty names in a public forum. The papers may call me nasty names tomorrow because of my prosecution of this lovely vigilante, but it doesn't mean I have any right to go out and break anyone's windows. Think what would happen if common citizens took the law into their own hands without due process. Think, and vote according to that thought"
*Jury leaves, comes back in five minutes later*
Judge:That was rather quick
Jury foreman:sorry we were so slow, but I had to get a drink of water on the way in. This guy is guilty first and last. He didn't even contest.
Judge: Case closed.


You didn't even understand what I said...

you don't even know what "freedom of speech" means


No, I interpret it the real way. The founding fathers would never want someone to be walking around swearing their mouth off and using the 1st ammendment as an excuse.

You didn't even understand what I said...
He does, I think. You posted about a mythical legal procedure and he posted about reality. Unless, of course, you can tell us the precedent setting case in which your theory was demonstrated?

Oh NO!!! these students are trying to vent their anger in a positive manner. I mean come on, it's better if they rap about it then actually use violence.


So, before music was popular with teens, there was a raging violence problem amoung teens?

No, I interpret it the real way. The founding fathers would never want someone to be walking around swearing their mouth off and using the 1st ammendment as an excuse.
The real way according to what...some kid in bum-f mass? LOL

So, before music was popular with teens, there was a raging violence problem amoung teens?
Yes, actually. Did you *really* think that music causes violence? I mean, seriously, are you one of those? Apparently YOU have heard this satanic music too, so are YOU violent? Oh wait, you DID threaten to commit a whole passel of felonies...

hey it's cool that kids make money on selling a CD and all that, BUT most rap is promoting violence, drug use, it's totally degrading women, and yes there is no positive anything that comes from it. i think the media has a big part in this and their parents. they have to learn it from someone. "...After all, they are just imitating the rappers they see on tV. And really, it is free speech..." Originally Posted by Ciryar So if everyone on TV killed themselves caz they thought little green men would take them to a cool new place you would do it too?!? It's nice to see that people dont think for themselves....Not.... it's really does make me mad that people dont think.... it's not so much as what the rappers do, it's what other people do to be just like them. And they shouldnt be. If you read anything of this or even think about anything... just please think about these quotes: "You were born an original. Dont die a copy." John Mason "Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words...becomes actions. watch your actions...becomes habits. Habits becomes character. Character becomes your destiny." Frank Outlaw And I only have one more thing to say ...."Some poeple like me. Some poeple dont. You can never get everyone to like you, so why knock yourself out trying?" Claudette Colbert

Oh wait, you DID threaten to commit a whole passel of felonies...Yeah, Kahta, maybe you should listen to some Eminem or something...get the agresssion out.

You mean like US culture where imperialism in the middle east is encouraged and everyone loves guns.

There is nothing wrong with guns. You as an anarchist should know that.

their parents
There, you just hit on it. If your kid goes out and kills people, or thinks that big SUVs and gold jewelry are the point of life, it's a failure of you the parent, you can't blame Elvis/Ozzy/Fitty cent/ etc.

The real way according to what...some kid in bum-f mass? LOL

According to Publius (aka. Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay) in the Federalist Papers (a defense of the constitution and the primary source for interpretation of the constitution of the United States of America).

There, you just hit on it. If your kid goes out and kills people, or thinks that big SUVs and gold jewelry are the point of life, it's a failure of you the parent, you can't blame Elvis/Ozzy/Fitty cent/ etc.
Exactly. And the more we depend on laws to fix problems, the less parents will feel they have to direct. The less they direct (within reason) the more problems we are going to see.

I'd bet $5 that I could too; I just wouldn't bet the life of anyone who might wander in front of me at the last moment.
This is why you lure him to a soccer field. Wide open spaces.

Yes, actually. Did you *really* think that music causes violence? I mean, seriously, are you one of those? Apparently YOU have heard this satanic music too, so are YOU violent? Oh wait, you DID threaten to commit a whole passel of felonies...

No, I don't listen to Satanic music, I'm a good Chrisitan. I listen to rock and classical music. Right now I'm listening to Carmina Burana.

So, by your logic, my grandparents commited large numbers of felonies in the 1930's and 1940's when they were growing up, because they didn't listen to music.

You started strong, but then you weakened your point. Crimes and rape are bad, the others are opinions. They may not be liked or popular with your crowd of friends, but it doesn't make them wrong, or illegal.
Right on.

I thought I may as well include them, even if they aren't as bad, because they are still things that people object to. I did think that actively discriminating because of race was illegal though, if not sex and sexuality as well...

According to Publius (aka. Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay) in the Federalist Papers (a defense of the constitution and the primary source for interpretation of the constitution of the United States of America).
The federalist papers are not part of our government's foundation, they are the advertising campaign that was run to get people interested in the constitution these guys were about to propose.

How do you find ambiguity in "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Read it. It says "no law...abridging the freedom of speech". It does not say "political speech", it does not say "unless some hick religious fanatic is offended", it does not say "because some kid on a message board doesn't understand it"

No, I don't listen to Satanic music, I'm a good Chrisitan. I listen to rock and classical music. Right now I'm listening to Carmina Burana.

So, by your logic, my grandparents commited large numbers of felonies in the 1930's and 1940's when they were growing up, because they didn't listen to music.

I think he was actually making the point that music doesn't affect the felonies you commit....

I listen to Satanic music among many others things. I'm not a Christian but I'm pretty law abiding, good and generally nice. The music I listen to doesn't change my own opinions or how I act.

The real way according to what...some kid in bum-f mass? LOL

How many Federalist papers have you read? If you read the Federalist papers, you would know how to interpret the constitution.

This is why you lure him to a soccer field. Wide open spaces.
Good thinking! I was picturing the scenario in the crowded discussion board, where it would be very irresponsible to discharge a firearm :-p

The federalist papers are not part of our government's foundation, they are the advertising campaign that was run to get people interested in the constitution these guys were about to propose.

How do you find ambiguity in "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Read it. It says "no law...abridging the freedom of speech". It does not say "political speech", it does not say "unless some hick religious fanatic is offended", it does not say "because some kid on a message board doesn't understand it"
When interpreting constitutional amendments citing papers written by those involved in it's creation gives you insight into what they mean. It's also backed up by various statements they wrote AFTER the constitution was ratified.

No, I don't listen to Satanic music, I'm a good Chrisitan. I listen to rock and classical music. Right now I'm listening to Carmina Burana.

So, by your logic, my grandparents commited large numbers of felonies in the 1930's and 1940's when they were growing up, because they didn't listen to music.
No, Kahta, anyone who eventually spawned you was probably donating their pocket money to help the Feejee islanders and then volunteering in the soup kitchen after school, and didn't have time to commit felonies.

Seriously though, I don't buy the whole music as a vent for agression/music decreases violence canard. I think a lot of rap is crap as music, but it is a lot of fun as a concert. I think the violence espoused by a lot of rappers is horrible, and I think the lives they live often reflect that. However, I don't think, in most cases, that what they are doing is or should be illegal.

No, I don't listen to Satanic music, I'm a good Chrisitan. I listen to rock and classical music. Right now I'm listening to Carmina Burana.

So, by your logic, my grandparents commited large numbers of felonies in the 1930's and 1940's when they were growing up, because they didn't listen to music.
Not long ago, people would have said you could not be a good Xtian and listen to rock music.

But apparently you're laboring under the illusion that the average kid today is committing felonies?

I thought I may as well include them, even if they aren't as bad, because they are still things that people object to. I did think that actively discriminating because of race was illegal though, if not sex and sexuality as well...
It definitely could be, but I don't think it probably is as far as private citizens are concerned. I was more thinking of just the ideas. Sure, I think people who have a problem with my race are silly, but I don't think that they are breaking the law. The same goes for sex, but then sexuality is a whole can of worms that gets fought about in other threads, so I won't comment here.

How many Federalist papers have you read? If you read the Federalist papers, you would know how to interpret the constitution.
Apparently so, since I have, and I do, and the entire legal system is on my side, not yours.

When interpreting constitutional amendments citing papers written by those involved in it's creation gives you insight into what they mean. It's also backed up by various statements they wrote AFTER the constitution was ratified.
...none of which support Kahta's contention that using "bad" language isn't protected speech.

Good thinking! I was picturing the scenario in the crowded discussion board, where it would be very irresponsible to discharge a firearm :-p
Yes, I'll shoot him with my special bullets made of electrons.

Kahta, you DID threaten to commit a whole passel of felonies...Kahta is a good Christian...she thinks she is allowed to comit crimes, as long as in her opinion its some kind of "Revenge" crime.

Kahta is a good Christan and she'll never go to Jail cause some stupid Jury will feel like letting the Criminal Kahta walk free...

Kahta says "Im like OJ"

some stupid Jury tough about her adulterous wife "the bitch had it coming"

or maybe that stupid Jury bough the conspiracy thing...

either way we served Justice good...didnt we. :rolleyes:

...none of which support Kahta's contention that using "bad" language isn't protected speech.

The assertion was that the first amendment was created to protect the right of people to speak out in opposition to the government and/or its policies. The Federalist Papers describe the reasoning behind the various sections of the constitution and prove that this is precisely the reason they included the first amendment, to protect political speech, not to protect profanity. The reason why alot of non-political speech has historically been protected by the first amendment is that alot of supreme court judges believe in following the letter of the law as opposed to following the spirit of the law. That view is fine, I dont think its wrong to believe in following the letter of the law. However, this doesnt change the fact that the spirit of the law, what the law was originally meant to do is protect political speech.

The assertion was that the first amendment was created to protect the right of people to speak out in opposition to the government and/or its policies....That view is fine, I dont think its wrong to believe in following the letter of the law. However, this doesnt change the fact that the spirit of the law, what the law was originally meant to do is protect political speech.
See I have a problem with that interpretation because the constitution specifically states both "abridging the freedom of speech" and "to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Why state both if you only intend the second to be covered by both statements?

Sweet crap. I don't even live more than a half hour from that school, and I never even heard of this.

gg allin was a god, of course he did do some time for his antics

I'm sure that given time we could dig out some (late period) Skrewdriver/Blue Eyed Devils/Bound For Glory/etc. lyrics to match your persona and the matter at hand. I'm pretty sure we could track down some material that would put 'Jenny so-and-so is the school bike/everybody take her for a ride" juvenile style noodlings to shame.

This music disgusts me.... I think these students should be in labor units...

typical rapper behavior (http://www.boston.com/news/local/rhode_island/articles/2005/02/06/johnston_students_suspended_for_homemade_rap_cd/)

Typical white-middle class racist.

OK, Xtians, tell me, should the man who said and wrote these things be allowed to do so? Should you base your religion on him?

"I have shit in my pants, and you can hang them around your neck and wipe your mouth with it."

"It is intolerable for us Christians that a Jew's filthy mouth should utter the name of God in our presence. And if anyone should hear a Jew speak that name, let him inform the authorities, or throw pig shit at him and drive him away."

"I have also shit and pissed; wipe your mouth on that and take a hearty bite."

Called the government "fart lickers."

"When the slanderer whispers: Look how he has shit on himself, the best answer is: You go eat it"

"I am as much a piece of useless, stinking shit as anyone else, if not more"

Typical white-middle class racist.


So blacks rapping, calling white girls "hoes" and "b--ches" and "cu--s", and rapping about "blasting whitey" etc, that isn't racism? But white males opposing the objectification and verbal degradation of their women, is?

The assertion was that the first amendment was created to protect the right of people to speak out in opposition to the government and/or its policies.
she clearly said that ONLY political speech was intended to be protected.

OK, Xtians, tell me, should the man who said and wrote these things be allowed to do so? Should you base your religion on him?

"I have shit in my pants, and you can hang them around your neck and wipe your mouth with it."

"It is intolerable for us Christians that a Jew's filthy mouth should utter the name of God in our presence. And if anyone should hear a Jew speak that name, let him inform the authorities, or throw pig shit at him and drive him away."

"I have also shit and pissed; wipe your mouth on that and take a hearty bite."

Called the government "fart lickers."

"When the slanderer whispers: Look how he has shit on himself, the best answer is: You go eat it"

"I am as much a piece of useless, stinking shit as anyone else, if not more"


There are times when you get suckered in
By drugs and alcohol and sex with women, mmkay.
But it’s when you do these things too much,
That you’ve become an addict,
And must get back in touch.

You can do it,
It’s all up to you, mmkay
With a little plan you can change your life today.
You don’t have to spend your life addicted to smack,
Homeless on the streets, giving hand-jobs for crack.
Follow my plan, and very soon you will say, “It’s easy, mmkay?”

Step 1: Instead of ass say “buns,” like “kiss my buns” or “you’re a bunshole.”
Step 2: Instead of shit say “poo,” as in “bull-poo,” “poo-head,” and “this poo is cold.”
Step 3: With bitch, drop the ‘T’, ‘cause “bich” is Latin for generosity.
Step 4: Don’t say fuck anymore, ‘cause fuck is the worst word that you can say.
So just use the word “mmkay.”

We can do it, it’s all up to us, mmkay.
With a little plan we can change our lives today.
We don’t have to spend our lives shootin’ up in the trash.
Homeless on the streets, giving hand-jobs for cash.
Follow this plan, and very soon you will say, “It’s easy, mmkay?”

Step 1: Instead of ass say “buns,” like “kiss my buns” or “you’re a bunshole.”
Step 2: Instead of shit say “poo,” as in “bull-poo,” “poo-head,” and “this poo is cold.”
Step 3: With bitch, drop the ‘T’, ‘cause “bich” is Latin for generosity.
Step 4: Don’t say fuck anymore, ‘cause fuck is the worst word that you can say
Fuck is the worst word that you can say.
We shouldn’t say fuck, no we shouldn’t say fuck, fuck, No!

You’re cured, you can go!

We don’t have to spend our lives shootin’ up in the trash.
Homeless on the streets, giving hand-jobs for cash.
Follow this plan, and very soon you will say, “It’s easy, mmkay?”

It’s easy, mmkay?
It’s easy, mmkay? ...

Mmkay ...

"I have shit in my pants, and you can hang them around your neck and wipe your mouth with it."

"It is intolerable for us Christians that a Jew's filthy mouth should utter the name of God in our presence. And if anyone should hear a Jew speak that name, let him inform the authorities, or throw pig shit at him and drive him away."

"I have also shit and pissed; wipe your mouth on that and take a hearty bite."

Called the government "fart lickers."

"When the slanderer whispers: Look how he has shit on himself, the best answer is: You go eat it"

"I am as much a piece of useless, stinking shit as anyone else, if not more"
Don't forget the same person also said that bishops were "shat out by the pope"

Heh. This is shocking to you people? :rolleyes: What's shocking to me is that people are overreacting so much. Rap music is an art, which should be encouraged. :cool:

No, Kahta, anyone who eventually spawned you was probably donating their pocket money to help the Feejee islanders and then volunteering in the soup kitchen after school, and didn't have time to commit felonies.


spawned? WTF?

So blacks rapping, calling white girls "hoes" and "b--ches" and "cu--s", and rapping about "blasting whitey" etc, that isn't racism? But white males opposing the objectification and verbal degradation of their women, is?
I don't think anybody said that racist statements by blacks were any less racist than ones by whites, did they?

...none of which support Kahta's contention that using "bad" language isn't protected speech.

As far as I understand it, in the USA, you have the right to shout 'fuck!' in a crowded theatre, but not the right to shout 'fire!'.

spawned? WTF?
Sorry Kahta, everyone knows that WTF means "what the fuck", and this is not protected speech, so we will have to send the church/government goon squad to silence you now

As far as I understand it, in the USA, you have the right to shout 'fuck!' in a crowded theatre, but not the right to shout 'fire!'.

Well, actually, you drop the f-bomb and you'll probably get thrown out.

Typical white-middle class racist.

1. I'm upper-middle class within the top 1% of incomes.
2. Did I state anything, correctly, that my race is better?
3. IQ tests, and the general state of the world has proven that my race is superior.

she clearly said that ONLY political speech was intended to be protected.

Uhuh...and thats precisely what I just said and precisely what the authors of the constitution admit to having meant when they explain the reasoning in the Federalist Papers. Whats your point?

Well, actually, you drop the f-bomb and you'll probably get thrown out.
You shouldn't be shouting anything in a theater. Unless there's a fire... :-p

As far as I understand it, in the USA, you have the right to shout 'fuck!' in a crowded theatre, but not the right to shout 'fire!'.There now is an interesting distinction between protected and unprotected free speech. Bravo for the eloquence.
Sorry Kahta, everyone knows that WTF means "what the fuck", and this is not protected speech, so we will have to send the church/government goon squad to silence you nowIt is nice to know you were only objecting to have fun on the computer over your Sunday afternoon. Now that we have settled the fact that you are on our side, we can all go home.

The assertion was that the first amendment was created to protect the right of people to speak out in opposition to the government and/or its policies. The Federalist Papers describe the reasoning behind the various sections of the constitution and prove that this is precisely the reason they included the first amendment, to protect political speech, not to protect profanity. The reason why alot of non-political speech has historically been protected by the first amendment is that alot of supreme court judges believe in following the letter of the law as opposed to following the spirit of the law. That view is fine, I dont think its wrong to believe in following the letter of the law. However, this doesnt change the fact that the spirit of the law, what the law was originally meant to do is protect political speech.
Clearly, by the actions of this country's founding fathers, profanity was protected by the first amendment. Our wise founding fathers would be perfectly at home in today's rap world of sex, violence, guns, and miscellaneous vulgarity. For example the American Citizen, a partisan newspaper published by NYC Mayor Dewitt Clinton in support of Alexander Hamilton, called Aaron Burr "the most despicable bastard in the universe." The Citizen reported that they had a list of the twenty top prostitutes in New York, all of whom declared Burr was their favorite customer. Alexander Hamilton, author of the Federalist Papers, later refused to apologize for such comments and thus was killed in a duel with Aaron Burr. Other examples include John Adams calling Hamilton a "bastard brat of a Scotch peddler" and of course James Callender's famous smear campaign against Thomas Jefferson in which he used all sorts of crude language to publicize Jefferson's affairs with slaves.

That is the worst rock music.


Well, as long as GG Allin is still pissing off mainstream America from beyond the grave, then he didn't die in vein. Just remember that he died for his own sins, not yours.

Some rock music promotes bad things, all rap music, a perversion of music, is awful.


Even stuff like this? -

http://christianmusic.com/genres/raphiphop.htm

Clearly, by the actions of this country's founding fathers, profanity was protected by the first amendment. Our wise founding fathers would be perfectly at home in today's rap world of sex, violence, guns, and miscellaneous vulgarity. For example the American Citizen, a partisan newspaper published by NYC Mayor Dewitt Clinton in support of Alexander Hamilton, called Aaron Burr "the most despicable bastard in the universe." The Citizen reported that they had a list of the twenty top prostitutes in New York, all of whom declared Burr was their favorite customer. Alexander Hamilton, author of the Federalist Papers, later refused to apologize for such comments and thus was killed in a duel with Aaron Burr. Other examples include John Adams calling Hamilton a "bastard brat of a Scotch peddler" and of course James Callender's famous smear campaign against Thomas Jefferson in which he used all sorts of crude language to publicize Jefferson's affairs with slaves.

bastard is not profanity

As far as I understand it, in the USA, you have the right to shout 'fuck!' in a crowded theatre, but not the right to shout 'fire!'.


As far as I'm concerned, either one should be a jailable offense.

bastard is not profanity
That's not what my mama said...

So blacks rapping, calling white girls "hoes" and "b--ches" and "cu--s", and rapping about "blasting whitey" etc, that isn't racism? But white males opposing the objectification and verbal degradation of their women, is?

No, but a generalizing tone about the way rappers behave is the racism. For every rapper you can mention that talked about killing people, I can find one that said something constructive.

And personally, the contents of these lyrics are not even close to being that bad. Should I bring out the lyrics to any of the major heavy rock bands on the radio?

That's not what my mama said...
your mama lied

bastard is not profanity
It all depends on your definition, which depends very much on your place in time and space.

"shit" was once the normal, every day word that good christians used to describe...shit. Now apparently god wants us to say "poopie"

As far as I'm concerned, either one should be a jailable offense.
Now you have truly departed the realms of sanity. You want to JAIL people for swearing? You aren't related to people who attended Bob Jones University are you? No matter how bad you think swearing is, surely you are joking here. Please say you aren't serious. Please?

1. I'm upper-middle class within the top 1% of incomes.
2. Did I state anything, correctly, that my race is better?
3. IQ tests, and the general state of the world has proven that my race is superior.

Typical white middle-class racist, until you actually came out and said that whites are superior, that set you apart. Most typical racists have a general feeling of superiority but don't come out and say it.

It all depends on your definition, which depends very much on your place in time and space.

"shit" was once the normal, every day word that good christians used to describe...shit. Now apparently god wants us to say "poopie"

No, it never was. Can you find any literature from any era that shows that it was the every day word? of course you cant because it never was.

your mama lied
Are you calling my mama a liar? Watch your words...

1. I'm upper-middle class within the top 1% of incomes.
2. Did I state anything, correctly, that my race is better?
3. IQ tests, and the general state of the world has proven that my race is superior.
I'm pretty sure that with that statement, Kahta has proven himself one who is not worth arguing with.
Obviously nobody is going to convince him that he's wrong, so just give it up.

Typical white middle-class racist. Actually, he's upper-middle-class, so he can't be a "typical" middle-class racist.

3. IQ tests, and the general state of the world has proven that my race is superior.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't that key work of those that present this argument - The Bell Curve - also show that by this logic white Americans are inferior to both Asian Americans and Jewish Americans?

I don't think anybody said that racist statements by blacks were any less racist than ones by whites, did they?


White males thinking blacks ought to shut up about objectifying white women, is not racism. Blacks have no right to be rapping hatred and filth, if they must, let them degrade their own women, and keep away from our women.

Clearly, by the actions of this country's founding fathers, profanity was protected by the first amendment. Our wise founding fathers would be perfectly at home in today's rap world of sex, violence, guns, and miscellaneous vulgarity. For example the American Citizen, a partisan newspaper published by NYC Mayor Dewitt Clinton in support of Alexander Hamilton, called Aaron Burr "the most despicable bastard in the universe." The Citizen reported that they had a list of the twenty top prostitutes in New York, all of whom declared Burr was their favorite customer. Alexander Hamilton, author of the Federalist Papers, later refused to apologize for such comments and thus was killed in a duel with Aaron Burr. Other examples include John Adams calling Hamilton a "bastard brat of a Scotch peddler" and of course James Callender's famous smear campaign against Thomas Jefferson in which he used all sorts of crude language to publicize Jefferson's affairs with slaves.

All lies and partial truths.

No, it never was. Can you find any literature from any era that shows that it was the every day word? of course you cant because it never was.
Actually, it was just the Old English word for it. It only became a swear word (in what was becoming English at the time) after the Norman conquest, when anything "Saxon" became "crude."

As far as I'm concerned, either one should be a jailable offense.

Do words really frighten you that much?

What if there is an actual fire in that theatre?

Is shouting 'sexual intercourse' or 'shagging' or 'bonking' or 'making love' acceptable, or should these also send you to the big house?

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't that key work of those that present this argument - The Bell Curve - also show that by this logic white Americans are inferior to both Asian Americans and Jewish Americans?
Yes. But the quote (supposedly by Kahta) was a joke I think.

White males thinking blacks ought to shut up about objectifying white women, is not racism. Blacks have no right to be rapping hatred and filth, if they must, let them degrade their own women, and keep away from our women. I was thinking the exact same thing, until you said "their women" and "our women".

Actually, it was just the Old English word for it. It only became a swear word (in what was becoming English at the time) after the Norman conquest, when anything "Saxon" became "crude."

So, surely you can find some literature that proves this

Yes. But the quote (supposedly by Kahta) was a joke I think.

Given that Kahta has in the past made such illogical statements as 'you are either a patriot or a traitor. A patriot always tries to by American, a traitor doesn't' (possibly slightly misremembered), I can't really extend the benefit of the doubt here.

bastard is not profanity
I don't see any newspapers today calling anyone "the most dispicable bastard in the universe." The truth is, when this country was founded, vulgarities, insults, and sexual innuendo was everywhere, and respectable people and politicians publically called each other pimps and whores. People, including Commodore Decatur, Pres. Jackson, and Alexander Hamilton participated in gunfights over such insults. Sounds like our founding fathers listened to too much rap.

So, surely you can find some literature that proves this
Actually I could. But I am feeling lazy right now and I don't want to dig through my history of English class notes and books right now.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't that key work of those that present this argument - The Bell Curve - also show that by this logic white Americans are inferior to both Asian Americans and Jewish Americans?
captain racism fails again


ps fuck i hate being on a wireless network

I don't see any newspapers today calling anyone "the most dispicable bastard in the universe." The truth is, when this country was founded, vulgarities, insults, and sexual innuendo was everywhere, and respectable people and politicians publically called each other pimps and whores. People, including Commodore Decatur, Pres. Jackson, and Alexander Hamilton participated in gunfights over such insults. Sounds like our founding fathers listened to too much rap.
or they disagreed about what should be done about people who listened to rap :rolleyes:

White males thinking blacks ought to shut up about objectifying white women, is not racism. Blacks have no right to be rapping hatred and filth, if they must, let them degrade their own women, and keep away from our women.

Are you implying collective male ownership of females, and that black women are worth less than white women? Should you not, as a chivalrous gentleman, help all women escape from such degradation, and not just those of your group?

All lies and partial truths.
You don't know anything about history, do you...

So, surely you can find some literature that proves this

Actually, in essence he is correct here: 'dirty' words in english tend to have Germanic roots while the acceptable forms have Latinate or French roots.

Typical white middle-class racist, until you actually came out and said that whites are superior, that set you apart. Most typical racists have a general feeling of superiority but don't come out and say it.


I'm upper middle class, learn the difference. You're probobly a closet communist.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't that key work of those that present this argument - The Bell Curve - also show that by this logic white Americans are inferior to both Asian Americans and Jewish Americans?

Yes, it shows Jews are the smartest, whites being second, however I consider Jews to be White.

Actually, in essence he is correct here: 'dirty' words in english tend to have Germanic roots while the acceptable forms have Latinate or French roots.

Which is probably because Latin was the privileged language of Europe for a very long time.

You don't know anything about history, do you...

More than you.

I'm upper middle class, learn the difference. You're probobly a closet communist.

Someone explain to me how 'upper middle class' is not a subset of 'middle class', please.

Yes, it shows Jews are the smartest, whites being second, however I consider Jews to be White.

Even the black ones?

Yes, it shows Jews are the smartest, whites being second, however I consider Jews to be White.
Actually it showed Asians from Japan or China as the smartest. Jews were only second in line. And whatever you consider to be the truth, most people go with the fact that there is a genetic distinction between the two.
Edit: A genetic difference between Ashkenazic and Sephardic Jews and whites. As BwO pointed out above, it is also a religious disctinction.

Given that Kahta has in the past made such illogical statements as 'you are either a patriot or a traitor. A patriot always tries to by American, a traitor doesn't' (possibly slightly misremembered), I can't really extend the benefit of the doubt here.


Anyone with an IQ above 32 would see that it applied ONLY to Americans.

So, surely you can find some literature that proves this
Let's not quibble about obscure etymologies and get to the point, which is - the letter and the spirit of the First Amendment clearly protects our right to be profane. Ever since the beginning of this country, respectable people viciously insulted each other, using crude sexual language that wouldn't feel out of place in today's culture.

Do words really frighten you that much?

What if there is an actual fire in that theatre?

Is shouting 'sexual intercourse' or 'shagging' or 'bonking' or 'making love' acceptable, or should these also send you to the big house?

Some things should be taught in school, and never mentioned again until one has found a person which they are planning on marrying.

This music disgusts me.... I think these students should be in labor units...

typical rapper behavior (http://www.boston.com/news/local/rhode_island/articles/2005/02/06/johnston_students_suspended_for_homemade_rap_cd/)

'Rap music' is an oxymoron.

More than you.
Then refute any one of my comments.

Someone explain to me how 'upper middle class' is not a subset of 'middle class', please.



Even the black ones?

I was thinking about people refering to Jews as a race, in which case, I consider them to be white.

'Rap music' is an oxymoron.

True. And I'm surprised that Kahta hasn't pointed that out.

Some things should be taught in school, and never mentioned again until one has found a person which they are planning on marrying.
True. But do you really want the government enforcing that? Do you want them reading, say, this BB, and seeing that you said WTF above and carting you off for mentioning the "magic of making whoopee" before marriage?

Some things should be taught in school, and never mentioned again until one has found a person which they are planning on marrying.

Why?

I think that rappers should be sent to labor camps, they degrade women, promote violence, promote truancy, promote drug use, and in general do nothing positive.

And you sound like the type to blame the victim. If someone did that to one of my friends, I'd break all the windows on their house and slash the tires of their car. Its a matter of respect and privacy.


completely agree

No, it never was. Can you find any literature from any era that shows that it was the every day word? of course you cant because it never was.
Putting aside the fact that it's pretty much an every day word now, used in popular entertainment, corporate boardrooms, and even the halls of government...

The verb to shit dates the Middle English period (c. 1308), and the noun form is from the 16th century.

Chaucer good enough for you? - "'shitten shepherd and clene sheep'" (past participle of shit used to be shitten)

How about Jonathan Swift - "Thus finishing his grand survey, Disgusted Strephon stole away, Repeating in his amorous fits, Oh! Celia, Celia, Celia shits! "


Anglo-Saxon leechdom books use scittan in reference to cattle having diarrhea. A Latin text from 1118 refers to "Lues animalium, quæ Anglice Scitta vocatur, Latine autem fluxus interaneorum dici potest."

Actually it showed Asians from Japan or China as the smartest. Jews were only second in line.

Yeah, but I consider Chinese to be passive, and weak when confronted by tyranny. I consider Japanese to be honorable people, on par with whites.

I was thinking about people refering to Jews as a race, in which case, I consider them to be white.
Like I said above. They aren't. Ashkenazic Jews may look white, but they are distinct genetically from Europeans. Sephardic Jews don't even look that white, they look more Arab. Unless you consider Arabs white too. In any case, your opinion and scientific fact are at odds here.

White males thinking blacks ought to shut up about objectifying white women, is not racism. Blacks have no right to be rapping hatred and filth, if they must, let them degrade their own women, and keep away from our women.
Haha, you really belong in North Korea, where people *really* don't have the right to free speech.

I was thinking about people refering to Jews as a race, in which case, I consider them to be white.

Whereas they patently aren't a race, rather a religious community.

All lies and partial truths.
How come this little girl can never respond to the substance of any argument, but instead just throws around silly accusations like this?

completely agree
Kahta was responding to me. You ought to read the rest of my posts above (if you can handle the ten minutes it might take) and get up to speed on the discussion.

So, surely you can find some literature that proves this
You're the one who is ignorant of the etymology of the word, YOU go look it up; Ciryar is exactly right.

'Rap music' is an oxymoron.
so is stupid dumbass

so is stupid dumbass

No, that's a tautology.

'Rap music' is an oxymoron.
once again, completely agree
i like this forum, so anti-rap!

I'm upper middle class, learn the difference. You're probobly a closet communist.
No sweetie, money does not give one class; you're decidedly white trash in your speech and opinions

Someone explain to me how 'upper middle class' is not a subset of 'middle class', please.


Because upper middle class is typically within the top 1% of incomes in this country, but the jobs they have do not pay enough to allow them to quit one day, and never work again.

Yeah, but I consider Chinese to be passive, and weak when confronted by tyranny. I consider Japanese to be honorable people, on par with whites.
Whoa, whoa whoa. You are shooting your credibility in the foot with this one. You think people are "weak" or "on a par with whites?" I am beginning to think that not only are you connected with Bob Jones University, but you are a member of the KKK too.

No, that's a tautology.
i didnt really care

Yes, it shows Jews are the smartest, whites being second, however I consider Jews to be White.
Your ignorance knows no bounds! Jewish is not a race, and there are black and asian jews.

Let's not even get into what color the people in the bible were...

More than you.
And killer debate skills, too. what's next Kahta, "and many more?"

Because upper middle class is typically within the top 1% of incomes in this country, but the jobs they have do not pay enough to allow them to quit one day, and never work again.

Earning power != social class.

True. But do you really want the government enforcing that? Do you want them reading, say, this BB, and seeing that you said WTF above and carting you off for mentioning the "magic of making whoopee" before marriage?

No, I think parents should teach it to their kids. Mine have not done that, but I made the important decision on my own, that it is too risky to have sex unless I plan on marrying that person. Also, I consider sex to be something only mature people should have, so that discounts most people from NS. Just because your body wants it, doesn't mean its ready for it.

I was thinking about people refering to Jews as a race, in which case, I consider them to be white.
Even the semitic ones? (to be fair, I will let you in on the fact that Arabs are also a semitic race)

once again, completely agree
i like this forum, so anti-rap!

Why would one be opposed to rap simply because one does not classify it as music?

Whoa, whoa whoa. You are shooting your credibility in the foot with this one. You think people are "weak" or "on a par with whites?" I am beginning to think that not only are you connected with Bob Jones University, but you are a member of the KKK too.


Yes, they are as a race, weak, and do not resist Tyranny.

I have no plans to attend or visit BJU, and I have never had any. I also do not have any affiliations with the KKK, nor do I want any.

No, I think parents should teach it to their kids. Mine have not done that, but I made the important decision on my own, that it is too risky to have sex unless I plan on marrying that person. Also, I consider sex to be something only mature people should have, so that discounts most people from NS. Just because your body wants it, doesn't mean its ready for it.
i see you wont be having sex for a very long time

Your ignorance knows no bounds! Jewish is not a race, and there are black and asian jews.

Let's not even get into what color the people in the bible were...
Actually, Jewish can be a race. As in the Jews Hitler was so fond of. Those were primarily Ashkenazic Jews, who are distinct enough genetically from other Europeans to be subject to a slightly different set of diseases. Sephardic Jews are those who lived in North Africa and the Middle East after the Diaspora. Converts, of course, are whatever race they came in as.

Even the semitic ones? (to be fair, I will let you in on the fact that Arabs are also a semitic race)

Only Jews that have Norweigan to Italian skin

Yes, they are as a race, weak, and do not resist Tyranny... I also do not have any affiliations with the KKK, nor do I want any.
The irony of that juxtaposition is just too much!

I have no plans to attend or visit BJU, and I have never had any. I also do not have any affiliations with the KKK, nor do I want any.I'll give you the KKK one. That was hyperbole. But you really ought to consider BJU. You'd find a bunch of people who think like you do.

Only Jews that have Norweigan to Italian skin

And is this assumption backed up in any way by the intelligence tests that you refered to earlier?

Only Jews that have Norweigan to Italian skin
Read posts #244 and #223. Pretty please?

Actually, Jewish can be a race. As in the Jews Hitler was so fond of. .
So you support Hitler's delusion?


Jewish is no more a race than Xtian or Hindu. You cannot become white (Michael Jackson demonstrated that for us), you can become Jewish.

1. At least one underage bigot, preferably of the religious fanatic variety
2. Religion and/or sex and/or race in the topic

Mix with a few educated adults and some random little turdlets of first-time-poster-troll and let 'er rip!