NationStates Jolt Archive

We are attempting to form a union.

I understand that. But Myrth referenced someone threatening to leave.

WordGames, what font is that?
************
Member of NS Local 1969

************

SPAM, ... It's ... a waste of bandwidth

Looks like Comic Sans to me. Note that the stars aren't coloured in WG's sig.

I understand that. But Myrth referenced someone threatening to leave.

They're threatening to 'strike' for 24 hours or more.

WordGames, what font is that?
************
Member of NS Local 1969

************


Comic Sans MS

Kinda says something eh?

Comic Sans MS

Kinda says something eh?

Do I get bonus points for getting it right? Or some sort of union cookie?

I understand that. But Myrth referenced someone threatening to leave.

If the membership votes to strike it will happen.

Looks like Comic Sans to me. Note that the stars aren't coloured in WG's sig.
test
________________________
************
Member of NS Local 1969

************

Yes it is. Considering a moderator would gain in-depth knowledge of everything from how our UN-multi detection software works to how we can ban users from the site.
We misjudge someone's character and make them a moderator, and they go loopy and start spouting all this, then what? You have to put up with spammers, griefers, UN-multiers and lord knows what else.


Could be worse.

You could have to deal with union negotiatiors who have some deluded idea that they are operating from a "position of strenght"...





Somebody please let me know when the first general strike is going to be so I can add "Proud Scab, because this union is a lame-assed idea" to my sig.

test
________________________
************
Member of NS Local 1969

************

That's better. It's italic due to quotage-ness.

If the membership votes to strike it will happen.



Yeah. But will anyone notice?

Do I get bonus points for getting it right? Or some sort of union cookie?

I'll give you an Oreo.

They're threatening to 'strike' for 24 hours or more.

"Strike"? As in stop posting for a day?

I do that every week.

Could be worse.

You could have to deal with union negotiatiors who have some deluded idea that they are operating from a "position of strenght"...

Somebody please let me know when the first general strike is going to be so I can add "Proud Scab, because this union is a lame-assed idea" to my sig.

Mind if I use that sig too?

It'll be my first sig ever on NS! I'll be so proud.

I've heard your Canadian unions are nothing more than shoddy fronts for all-night drinking parties and the like....

Do I get bonus points for getting it right? Or some sort of union cookie?
sure, and grab a cold beer too.

________________________
************
Member of NS Local 1969

************

"Strike"? As in stop posting for a day?

I do that every week.

Obviously NS has been crashing into ruins weekly and we just haven't noticed.

Hell, I've barely been posting lately due to my computer being a jerk... I wonder what horrors have befallen NS in my absence?

*goes off to hunt for evidence of the destruction of NS*

That's better. It's italic due to quotage-ness.
test 3
________________________
************
Member of NS Local 8969

************

Somebody please let me know when the first general strike is going to be so I can add "Proud Scab, because this union is a lame-assed idea" to my sig.

Surely, if you fail to recognise the legitimacy of the union and any strike action it calls, then you would not consider yourself a 'scab'? - to do so is to recognise that you are in fact scabbing, and thus lending authority to the union's position.

Surely, if you fail to recognise the legitimacy of the union and any strike action it calls, then you would not consider yourself a 'scab'? - to do so is to recognise that you are in fact scabbing, and thus lending authority to the union's position.

Shhh... you'll ruin all our mean-spirited fun!

Yeah. But will anyone notice?

This thread was noticed. It moved really fast it's at 269 posts in what 5 hours?

Could be worse.

You could have to deal with union negotiatiors who have some deluded idea that they are operating from a "position of strenght"...


Oooh I dunno, that would have a certain comedy value.

This thread was noticed. It moved really fast it's at 269 posts in what 5 hours?

I wonder how many of those posts are people telling you your idea is foolish...

Obviously NS has been crashing into ruins weekly and we just haven't noticed.

Hell, I've barely been posting lately due to my computer being a jerk... I wonder what horrors have befallen NS in my absence?

*goes off to hunt for evidence of the destruction of NS*

Yes, because every time someone doesn't post for an entire day, NS comes tumbling down.

If you all go on strike, then I'm going to cross the picket lines and make like 1,000 posts just to make up the slack.

I've heard your Canadian unions are nothing more than shoddy fronts for all-night drinking parties and the like....

A nasty rumour started by Management.

Yes, because every time someone doesn't post for an entire day, NS comes tumbling down.

If you all go on strike, then I'm going to cross the picket lines and make like 1,000 posts just to make up the slack.

I'll join you.

We can have t-shirts that say 'for every post you don't make, I'm going to post three'.

Ahhh Maddox. Is there anything of his that can't be parodied in an amusing way?

Not that I support, endorse or advocate this union in any way shape or form, but I'll just make one query about tactics-

Question: what is more likely to bring the NS Axis of Evil down -

1.) A post strike, and thus less load on the servers

or

2.) An organised (non-spam) mass posting, thus increasing the load on the servers.

Think about it.

Yes, because every time someone doesn't post for an entire day, NS comes tumbling down.

If you all go on strike, then I'm going to cross the picket lines and make like 1,000 posts just to make up the slack.
I say (and im here because whatever I say has to be voted on) that we vote on the following proposition:

If we strike, all members are to create a Puppet, so we can scab ourselves to death.
:D :D :eek: :D

________________________
************
Member of NS Local 1969

************

I've heard your Canadian unions are nothing more than shoddy fronts for all-night drinking parties and the like....


What's "shoddy" about all night drinking parties?

Hell, most of us refer to that as "our college years".

Not that I support, endorse or advocate this union in any way shape or form, but I'll just make one query about tactics-

Question: what is more likely to bring the NS Axis of Evil down -

1.) A post strike, and thus less load on the servers

or

2.) An organised (non-spam) mass posting, thus increasing the load on the servers.

Think about it.

That option can be discussed and voted on at a membership meeting.

What's "shoddy" about all night drinking parties?

Hell, most of us refer to that as "our college years".

It's a wonder we graduated.

What's "shoddy" about all night drinking parties?

Hell, most of us refer to that as "our college years".
Oh sure, now you're pro-union!

I still don't get how this will work.

I say (and im here because whatever I say has to be voted on) that we vote on the following proposition:

If we strike, all members are to create a Puppet, so we can scab ourselves to death.
:D :D :eek: :D

________________________
************
Member of NS Local 1969

************


Hehehe, nothing wrong with your sence of humour.

That option can be discussed and voted on at a membership meeting.
I like Seattle

That option can be discussed and voted on at a membership meeting.

Such an organised mass posting would probably fall foul of the following though:

You may submit content to NationStates.net so long as it is not obscene, illegal, threatening, malicious, or defamatory, does not invade the privacy or infringe the intellectual property of a third party, and does not constitute "spam."

I still don't get how this will work.

That's because you're rational.

I mean, duh Matt.

:p

I still don't get how this will work.

It might not, but I think it is worth the effort.

Anyway - do what ya gotta do.

Just remember:

http://members.rogers.com/zeppo_marx2/killkittie.jpg

That is criminal vandalism, I demand the mods to permantly BAN his IP...

Damn where are the mods when you need one. :mad:

Just in case you missed the first line I posted:

Not that I support, endorse or advocate this union in any way shape or form...

Note also how the post was phrased a question (with the intention to show how ill thought out I thought the union idea was), rather than a call for a DOS attack.

It might not, but I think it is worth the effort.

Why is it worth the effort?

Such an organised mass posting would probably fall foul of the following though:

You may submit content to NationStates.net so long as it is not obscene, illegal, threatening, malicious, or defamatory, does not invade the privacy or infringe the intellectual property of a third party, and does not constitute "spam."

The idea needs fleshing out but it has merit.

I'll join you.

We can have t-shirts that say 'for every post you don't make, I'm going to post three'.

Ahhh Maddox. Is there anything of his that can't be parodied in an amusing way?

And the mods can decend and there shall be much mirth (and Myrth) and merriment. Aaah... t'would be just like back in July before the forums were re-enabled.

That's because you're rational.

I mean, duh Matt.

:p

Yes, damn me and my sanity.

Is your computer fixed yet?

The idea needs fleshing out but it has merit.

Yeah... the merit is we could just ban you for spamming. Great plan there.

Anyway - do what ya gotta do.

Just remember:

.../killkittie.jpg

Poor kitty

The idea needs fleshing out but it has merit.

So, as a member of this union, will you explain to me why I need a say?

Alright, I can't be bothered to read this whole thread. I read the first page and the last page. Someone summarize the rest for me.

Yeah... the merit is we could just ban you for spamming. Great plan there.

Would you ban an entire forum?

Ok I joined but i want everyone to remember Word Games pushed me in front of the bus

Call me naive...

You're naive..

Thank you.

I'm not the most political guy in the world, but I thought you liberals were all over the union thing...? Aren't unions fighting for a say from the little man? A say from the workers, the laborers, the factory workers, who are all under the thumb of "the Man"? Don't labor unions and liberals and Democrats all sleep in the same sordid bed together?

*is confused*

Would you ban an entire forum?

But you don't have an entire forum worth of support.

Yes, damn me and my sanity.

Is your computer fixed yet?

Yes... and no.

It's decided that it likes randomly restarting. Hence why I practically stopped posting for a while back. I got sick of getting halfway through a post and then having to hear the horrible sound of the computer dying.

I'm still trying to get it up and working. And until then I'm in exile from MSN and NS (the actual game). I'm just glad I have this handy spare old computer so I can still post on the forums.

Otherwise a large number of kittens would be dead, and it would be down to my evil computer.

Ooh, and I got into my university subject thing ^.^ *happydance*

Alright, I can't be bothered to read this whole thread. I read the first page and the last page. Someone summarize the rest for me.

If you did that you got most of it. If you want to join put "Member of NS Local 8976" in your sig

In a while we will hold elections and vote on demands and tactics.

But you don't have an entire forum worth of support.


Not yet..

Call me naive...

You're naive..

Thank you.

I'm not the most political guy in the world, but I thought you liberals were all over the union thing...? Aren't unions fighting for a say from the little man? A say from the workers, the laborers, the factory workers, who are all under the thumb of "the Man"? Don't labor unions and liberals and Democrats all sleep in the same sordid bed together?

*is confused*

Some unions have been corrupted. Management finds it simpler to buy the union than to respect the demands.

The Mob found it useful as well.

Yes... and no.

It's decided that it likes randomly restarting. Hence why I practically stopped posting for a while back. I got sick of getting halfway through a post and then having to hear the horrible sound of the computer dying.

I'm still trying to get it up and working. And until then I'm in exile from MSN and NS (the actual game). I'm just glad I have this handy spare old computer so I can still post on the forums.

Otherwise a large number of kittens would be dead, and it would be down to my evil computer.

Ooh, and I got into my university subject thing ^.^ *happydance*
My computer does that too, but that's because it's a weird hybrid of XP pro and Media Centre and half of it isn't exactly 'there', if you know what I mean.
Congrats for whatever it is you got into, too.

Ok I joined but i want everyone to remember Word Games pushed me in front of the bus

*hopes that she does not remember too much about the push*

Still no response as to why I need a say?

Still no response as to why I need a say?
Because Edmund Burke say you have to

Because Edmund Burke say you have to

I'm firmly in the Paine camp, rather than the Burke one.

These are the times that try men's souls... :)

Still no response as to why I need a say?
Because apparently it goes really well on toast.
Or something like that, I think.

Still no response as to why I need a say?

I want to know if I get a say about getting a say.

*hopes the union hall's kitchen is open late on Saturday...*

Fish sandwich, please...and a Guinness...thanks!

...I'm too lazy to read the rest of this thread.

First question is, what would I have to do?

Second question is, do I get paid, in cash or otherwise *cough*beer*cough*?

Third question is, do I get a union card?

EDIT- and fourth question, do we have picket lines with free beer and/or other entertainment? Or do you just camp outside somewhere in the cold overnight staring blankly at eachother when on strike?

oh, and another, are you corrupt and accept bribes from management?

the WWWobblies

i'm thinking they would be called 'the particularly wobblies'

is it a perk if we are invloved with the mob?? i can get them, to, you know, "do favors" and such.,.. ;)

is it a perk if we are invloved with the mob?? i can get them, to, you know, "do favors" and such.,.. ;)
You don't want to try to kill a mod.
Why, you ask?
Well just look at them!!

http://www.moderndrunkardmagazine.com/images/barney-satan-color.jpg
Myrth

Who would mess with that? The mods and their superhuman powers would take out the mobsters.

:D

You don't want to try to kill a mod.
Why, you ask?
Well just look at them!!

http://www.moderndrunkardmagazine.com/images/barney-satan-color.jpg
Myrth

Who would mess with that? The mods and their superhuman powers would take out the mobsters.

:D

i never said that! are you trying to get me in trouble here?? ;) the mods NEVA did NUTTIN ta me!! i just thought getting the blacksuited italian side of my family involved would look way cool, you know, have them stand in the corner of the meetings and sneer.

i never said that! are you trying to get me in trouble here?? ;) the mods NEVA did NUTTIN ta me!! i just thought getting the blacksuited italian side of my family involved would look way cool, you know, have them stand in the corner of the meetings and sneer.
Oh well, Myrth is still a badass satanic Barney-esque dinosaur.
How'd I figure out his secret?
I looked in the pic thread!
:eek:

Okay, I'm confused and to lazy to read the entire thread to clear it up. COuld someone sum up for me?

Okay, I'm confused and to lazy to read the entire thread to clear it up. COuld someone sum up for me?
Well, to sum up, Word Games created a union of sorts for people trying to make demands of the mods. The problem is, most of the tactics like strikes and such won't do anything, and also, Myrth is a badass Satanic Barney-esque dinosaur.

Well, to sum up, Word Games created a union of sorts for people trying to make demands of the mods. The problem is, most of the tactics like strikes and such won't do anything, and also, Myrth is a badass Satanic Barney-esque dinosaur.
I see. And this got stickied why?

:confused as hell:

I see. And this got stickied why?

:confused as hell:
Because Rep Prod the Ninja Mod decided it would be a good idea or something like that.

Why should I join the union?

Because it's cool to have massively the same sig.

Has the union any real power?

New forum-users come here every day, but a forum needs regular oldies. Without them, no forum.

Will I get cookies?

yes

Still no response as to why I need a say?


You don't NEED a say, you can continue to accept what they give you. It's about freedom, a voice, the possiblity of making change.

Why is it worth the effort?


They said the same thing about democracy.

I want to know if I get a say about getting a say.

Join and you will, at least in the union, what NS does is still up in the air.

So, shall we begin drawing up an agenda?

I see. And this got stickied why?

:confused as hell:


The mOds are taunting us. They don't believe:

1. Change is required. (They are happy as it is, and why not?)
2. This effort will work. (You are sheep and will submit to the superior beings)
3. They WANT a strike. (They figure we will cave in)

Typical Union busting.

So, shall we begin drawing up an agenda?


A few more members would be nice, but what have you got in mind?

member #3 is here!

A few more members would be nice, but what have you got in mind?

I just thought the thread was going in circles a bit, so it might be a good idea to start a chat about the aims of the union.

My personal opinions on the matter are:
- allowing spam-lite would be good. We would need to have a definition of what spam-lite is, though, which requires some discussion.
- Democratically elected mods may not be such a good idea. The mods would certainly not agree to such a proposal and it is quite impractical. People may not vote for people based purely on their merits as a potential mod.
- More mods may be a good idea. Maybe the union could be used as a method of suggesting people who would be suitable for the job.


That's all I can think of at the moment. If anyone wants to discuss these issues or suggest different ones, feel free.

Shouldn't this be in NationStates?

Shouldn't this be in NationStates?

Nah, that's an RP forum. And I think it's been agreed that this is a Generalite union, although I'm sure we would welcome all members, whatever section of the forums they hang out in.

3. They WANT a strike. (They figure we will cave in)
I still don't think a strike will do much, as it seems to me that it would benefit the mods. There don't really seem to be many options, though. This environment is one in which I haven't seen a resistance movement before, so I guess we are sort of an experiment.

I'm in! :)

How many members are there in NS Local 8976?

I just thought the thread was going in circles a bit, so it might be a good idea to start a chat about the aims of the union.

My personal opinions on the matter are:
- allowing spam-lite would be good. We would need to have a definition of what spam-lite is, though, which requires some discussion.
- Democratically elected mods may not be such a good idea. The mods would certainly not agree to such a proposal and it is quite impractical. People may not vote for people based purely on their merits as a potential mod.
- More mods may be a good idea. Maybe the union could be used as a method of suggesting people who would be suitable for the job.


That's all I can think of at the moment. If anyone wants to discuss these issues or suggest different ones, feel free.

You raise some good points.

Spam-lite would be nice. There are real hard-core SPAMMERS in the Spam forum.

Spam-lite might be oh, say word games, chat threads, silly fun threads. This needs some work and discussion.

Selection of mOds? Why not? They admit that they are having a hard time finding "acceptable" mOds. Surely there are good folks out there.

The mOds might not like it but so what? It's our site too.

Think outside the box.

I'm in! :)

How many members are there in NS Local 8976?
Around 6 and counting.

You'll need to put "Member of NS Local 8976" in your sig.

I'm in! :)

How many members are there in NS Local 8976?

Put "Member of NS Local 8976" in your sig

Wow, this thread got stickied!

I still don't think a strike will do much, as it seems to me that it would benefit the mods. There don't really seem to be many options, though. This environment is one in which I haven't seen a resistance movement before, so I guess we are sort of an experiment.

Sign up?

A strike may not be agreed to. Its ONE option to push for reform.

Wow, this thread got stickied!
Yeah, either the mods think it's funny, they felt like being nice, or they found it an interesting idea to see what comes out of it. Or they're doing it to belittle the resistance a bit, but it doesn't seem like that to me so far.

Sign up?
I'm still debating internally over whether or not to sign up. From what I've seen lately, though, it seems this group is shaping up interestingly. What the hell, it's not like anything bad will come of this, at least not that I can see.
A strike may not be agreed to. Its ONE option to push for reform.
I'm finding it fascinating seeing this go on in an electronic medium, yet so far being roughly equivalent to real life. The one thing I can't think of is a method to push towards reform that will really have an effect in this situation. At least not one that is peaceful in nature. Then again, I'm not too bold and creative a person in situations such as these.

You don't want to try to kill a mod.
Why, you ask?
Well just look at them!!

http://www.moderndrunkardmagazine.com/images/barney-satan-color.jpg
Myrth

Who would mess with that? The mods and their superhuman powers would take out the mobsters.

:D

Please don't treaten to hurt a mOd (or other poster) the list got locked after I poked someone (who might have been a mOd) with a stick.

Please don't treaten to hurt a mOd (or other poster) the list got locked after I poked someone (who might have been a mOd) with a stick.
I didn't threaten, I was replying to someone who's post seemed vaguely of a threatening nature. At least, I don't think I threatened in my post.

I'm still debating internally over whether or not to sign up. From what I've seen lately, though, it seems this group is shaping up interestingly. What the hell, it's not like anything bad will come of this, at least not that I can see..
Yay!

I didn't threaten, I was replying to someone who's post seemed vaguely of a threatening nature. At least, I don't think I threatened in my post.


Alright. It seemed that way. Sorry.

Spam-lite would be nice. There are real hard-core SPAMMERS in the Spam forum.

Spam-lite might be oh, say word games, chat threads, silly fun threads. This needs some work and discussion.

Selection of mOds? Why not? They admit that they are having a hard time finding "acceptable" mOds. Surely there are good folks out there.

The mOds might not like it but so what? It's our site too.

Think outside the box.

But if mods are democratically elected, mods may lose their power for making tough decisions. People could vote for a potential mod based on their political views, rather than their qualities as a mod. Personally, I think that the union would be an ideal method of proposing people to be mods. But the mods themselves should have the final say in who gets to be one.

And how do we define spam-lite? What sort of silly fun threads take things too far? People have different ideas of "silly and fun". Which word games should be allowed?

As you said, this needs work and discussion.

By the way, not all of the mods support the idea, but I doubt that any of them want to actively work against it. Indeed, Reploid Productions voiced strong support for the union and Myrth seemed quite pleased at the thought of a strike.

Alright. It seemed that way. Sorry.
Either way, I should probably keep off stuff that could be construed as threatening, whether or not it is. Wouldn't want to get deleted...

Please don't treaten to hurt a mOd (or other poster) the list got locked after I poked someone (who might have been a mOd) with a stick.

Nah, I don't think it was about you poking them with a stick. It was more about us capturing two mods and interrogating them. It was probably more to do with my unpleasant (and unspecified) torture methods.

Nah, I don't think it was about you poking them with a stick. It was more about us capturing two mods and interrogating them. It was probably more to do with my unpleasant (and unspecified) torture methods.
You know, that just might be it right there...
Naah, couldn't be.

But if mods are democratically elected, mods may lose their power for making tough decisions. People could vote for a potential mod based on their political views, rather than their qualities as a mod. Personally, I think that the union would be an ideal method of proposing people to be mods. But the mods themselves should have the final say in who gets to be one.

And how do we define spam-lite? What sort of silly fun threads take things too far? People have different ideas of "silly and fun". Which word games should be allowed?

As you said, this needs work and discussion.

By the way, not all of the mods support the idea, but I doubt that any of them want to actively work against it. Indeed, Reploid Productions voiced strong support for the union and Myrth seemed quite pleased at the thought of a strike.

Are judges not elected in some states? They make tough decisions.
Democracy works outside of here. Why not IN here? Maybe SOME posters get voting rights in mOd selection? Or a veto on mOds? How about the right to impeach a mOd?

A word game is a word game. This stuff never hurt anyone.

Silly is in the eye of the beholder, so is Spam, so are many things. Alot of the decisions are quite subjective.

Are judges not elected in some states? They make tough decisions.
Democracy works outside of here. Why not IN here? Maybe SOME posters get voting rights in mOd selection? Or a veto on mOds? How about the right to impeach a mOd?

A word game is a word game. This stuff never hurt anyone.

Silly is in the eye of the beholder, so is Spam, so are many things. Alot of the decisions are quite subjective.

But too much spam will slow down the forum. It doesn't hurt anybody but it clogs things up, which is why it is banned currently. However, I think the current definition of spam is too all-encompassing, and some threads which are not pointless get locked because of this.

And there is one major difference between voting here and in real life: in RL, candidates show off their political views, so people will vote them into a political office. In NS, a mod's political views are irrelevant, but people may vote for a candidate because of their views, without considering how good a mod they would make.

Ugh, I hope that post wasn't as incoherent as I'm feeling at the moment...

Ugh, I hope that post wasn't as incoherent as I'm feeling at the moment...
No, it made sense.
:)

I see. And this got stickied why?

:confused as hell:Good question, I guess its because this is must have Information for all NS players.

more important than:

#2 General Forum Rules
#3 Ruling on the General Forum
#4 NS Player Profiles!
#5 Nationstates IRC Channels!

more important than:

#2 General Forum Rules
#3 Ruling on the General Forum
#4 NS Player Profiles!
#5 Nationstates IRC Channels!
No, the reason it's above all those is because this one has had the most recent post in it. If I were to go over and post a pic, the pic thread would be on top then.

But too much spam will slow down the forum. It doesn't hurt anybody but it clogs things up, which is why it is banned currently. However, I think the current definition of spam is too all-encompassing, and some threads which are not pointless get locked because of this.

And there is one major difference between voting here and in real life: in RL, candidates show off their political views, so people will vote them into a political office. In NS, a mod's political views are irrelevant, but people may vote for a candidate because of their views, without considering how good a mod they would make.

Ugh, I hope that post wasn't as incoherent as I'm feeling at the moment...

Too much RP clogs the forum too. Jolt was supposed to fix all that.
I'm not saying allow porn and stuff, just lighten up is all.

porn, ey? mmm...

Union membership advantages (http://www.union-organizing.com/advantages.html) we could work with this and modify it to suit NS

No, the reason it's above all those is because this one has had the most recent post in it. If I were to go over and post a pic, the pic thread would be on top then.
Imo, ther3 should be 3 or 4 sticked post, they could merge a couple of them.
Then again, its their website...its their call.

porn, ey? mmm...
LOL, if you get porn in here, you are going to turn a lot of heads...literally.

Union membership advantages (http://www.union-organizing.com/advantages.html) we could work with this and modify it to suit NS

What? You're going to negotiate a better compensation package for us?

Here let me do that for you right now:

Me: "Max! Can you double our pay? On second thought - triple it!"
Max: "Why the hell not?"

There. Done.


Anything else?

:rolleyes:

Cool, i'll earn 3 times as much!!!

*counts on fingers*

Wait a minute, this is a scam! I bet you expect union fees too. Hmph.

What? You're going to negotiate a better compensation package for us?

Here let me do that for you right now:

Me: "Max! Can you double our pay? On second thought - triple it!"
Max: "Why the hell not?"

There. Done.


Anything else?

:rolleyes:
I want better dental coverage !!!!

and I want it now.

i'm in as a member of the internation brotherhood of carpenters, i second the motion on forming ns local 8976

Cool, i'll earn 3 times as much!!!

*counts on fingers*

Wait a minute, this is a scam! I bet you expect union fees too. Hmph.
Meh, I got out my calculator for this one. It keeps giving me zero, but since I multiplied it by something, I bet it's just an error because the number got so big.
:D

i'm in as a member of the internation brotherhood of carpenters, i second the motion on forming ns local 8976

Put "Member of NS Local 8976" in your signature.

You go to profile then edit signature and copy/paste

I want better dental coverage !!!!

and I want it now.
I want my quarterly whitening done by my fav Dentist (his office is at the Bahamas) :D

What? You're going to negotiate a better compensation package for us?

Here let me do that for you right now:

Me: "Max! Can you double our pay? On second thought - triple it!"
Max: "Why the hell not?"

There. Done.


Anything else?

:rolleyes:

It's a starting point

Lets talk seniority, rights, dignity, policies, a voice..

We could make it like the National Assembly. Doesn't ring a bell? French Revolution? Tennis Court Oath?

Of course, we'd have to settle for a derelict IRC channel or the Spam forum rather than a tennis court if the m0dz0rz [i]Lock us out of the...."Forums-General". :p

OK, I admit it. I've been doing too much history revision. ;)

Do you not know why your union idea is a stupid one Word?

In labour, unions presented a united front to the employers to ensure equitable treatement. And they could exercise some measure of power through job action etc. which would adversely impact the employers bottom line: i.e., the welfare of the company. given that the business was the lifeblood of the employers, there was vested interest on both sides to come to terms.

In this case, there is no real vested interest for Max. If this forum has 50 members or 50,000 makes no real diference to his daily life.

But an organized group looking to be a pain in the ass to try and dictate terms to him has only one possible outcome: he says "fuck it".

You have no power as there is no need for mutual consideration.

Now, there HAVE been adjustments made to how things work around here in the past. How were they acheived? By presenting a good case in a polite manner that made sense to the Mod/Admin team. Why? Because as players they also can look at an idea and evaluate it on it's merits.

And a good idea WILL be respected and considered if presented in the proper manner.


But thinking you can get a group mandated to be a pain in the ass to try and set demands for how the board is run is absolutely a stupid idea which can only have adverse results as compared to what you want to have happen.


You really think any sized group of people here will have some "power" or "voice" with the guy who is running this on his own dime, using his own time, and according to a rule set that he decided was the way he wanted it run?

Wrong.

This ain't a democracy. This ain't a business venture. This ain't an open market.

It's a game. Max's game. And it will remain his game as long as it is fun.... for him!

You're not having fun?

Life sucks - buy a helmet. And go find yourself a new game. But don't think you get to be the one to make up new rules for somebody elses game.

It's a starting point

Lets talk seniority, rights, dignity, policies, a voice..

The NS Local 8976, considering that it has been summoned to establish the constitution of the forum, to effect the regeneration of the public order, and to maintain the true principles of modship; that nothing can prevent it from continuing its deliberations in whatever place it may be forced to establish itself; and, finally, that wheresoever its members are assembled, there is the NS Local 8976;

Decrees that all members of the NS Local 8976 shall immediately take a solemn oath not to stop posting, and to start new topics wherever circumstances require, until the constitution of the forum is established and consolidated upon firm foundations; and that, the said oath taken, all members and each one of them individually shall ratify this steadfast resolution by a message in their signature.

Do you not know why your union idea is a stupid one Word?

In labour, unions presented a united front to the employers to ensure equitable treatement. And they could exercise some measure of power through job action etc. which would adversely impact the employers bottom line: i.e., the welfare of the company. given that the business was the lifeblood of the employers, there was vested interest on both sides to come to terms.

In this case, there is no real vested interest for Max. If this forum has 50 members or 50,000 makes no real diference to his daily life.

But an organized group looking to be a pain in the ass to try and dictate terms to him has only one possible outcome: he says "fuck it".

You have no power as there is no need for mutual consideration.

Now, there HAVE been adjustments made to how things work around here in the past. How were they acheived? By presenting a good case in a polite manner that made sense to the Mod/Admin team. Why? Because as players they also can look at an idea and evaluate it on it's merits.

And a good idea WILL be respected and considered if presented in the proper manner.


But thinking you can get a group mandated to be a pain in the ass to try and set demands for how the board is run is absolutely a stupid idea which can only have adverse results as compared to what you want to have happen.


You really think any sized group of people here will have some "power" or "voice" with the guy who is running this on his own dime, using his own time, and according to a rule set that he decided was the way he wanted it run?

Wrong.

This ain't a democracy. This ain't a business venture. This ain't an open market.

It's a game. Max's game. And it will remain his game as long as it is fun.... for him!

You're not having fun?

Life sucks - buy a helmet. And go find yourself a new game. But don't think you get to be the one to make up new rules for somebody elses game.
Does this mean you don't sign in? ;)

The NS Local 8976, considering that it has been summoned to establish the constitution of the forum, to effect the regeneration of the public order, and to maintain the true principles of modship; that nothing can prevent it from continuing its deliberations in whatever place it may be forced to establish itself; and, finally, that wheresoever its members are assembled, there is the NS Local 8976;

Decrees that all members of the NS Local 8976 shall immediately take a solemn oath not to stop posting, and to start new topics wherever circumstances require, until the constitution of the forum is established and consolidated upon firm foundations; and that, the said oath taken, all members and each one of them individually shall ratify this steadfast resolution by a message in their signature..

It's a starting point

Lets talk seniority, rights, dignity, policies, a voice..

What do you want for seniority?

Another 50% increase? done.

Rights? They are spelled out in your "labour agreement" i.e. - the ToS. If you didn;t like your rights you shouldn't have "signed the contract".

Dignity? You can be as dignified or undignified as you want - within the bounds of the ToS.

Policies? go read your ToS

A voice? Go post your ideas on Moderation. Just as with a company, if the idea has merit the boss will adopt it. If not, they won't. You, however, do not get to decide what is in the best interest of the company. That final decision is NEVER in the hands of the employees.


Fact is - you have everything you want. You just want to hold hands and do it in a group with catchy protest songs or some such lame thing.


What's the point in that?

Unions brought us a shorter work day, a shorter work week , health and safety improvements, higher pay, coffee breaks. Lots of stuff.

An NS union might give us something similar. Sign up and see where this goes.

Unions brought us a shorter work day, a shorter work week , health and safety improvements, higher pay, coffee breaks. Lots of stuff.

An NS union might give us something similar. Sign up and see where this goes.

ill sign up if you promise to campaign for the resurection of Forum 7

The NS Local 8976, considering that it has been summoned to establish the constitution of the forum, to effect the regeneration of the public order, and to maintain the true principles of modship; that nothing can prevent it from continuing its deliberations in whatever place it may be forced to establish itself; and, finally, that wheresoever its members are assembled, there is the NS Local 8976;

Decrees that all members of the NS Local 8976 shall immediately take a solemn oath not to stop posting, and to start new topics wherever circumstances require, until the constitution of the forum is established and consolidated upon firm foundations; and that, the said oath taken, all members and each one of them individually shall ratify this steadfast resolution by a message in their signature.

Good, very good.

You're not having fun?

Life sucks - buy a helmet. And go find yourself a new game. But don't think you get to be the one to make up new rules for somebody elses game.

Unless, of course, you are playing Nomic (http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/nomic.htm#initial set).

ill sign up if you promise to campaign for the resurection of Forum 7

I will promise to place that on the list to be voted on.

Unless, of course, you are playing Nomic (http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/nomic.htm#initial set).
:eek:
That is awesome.
I still don't quite understand it, but it's awesome anyway.

second chinkopodia's proposal

What do you want for seniority?

Another 50% increase? done.

Rights? They are spelled out in your "labour agreement" i.e. - the ToS. If you didn;t like your rights you shouldn't have "signed the contract".

Dignity? You can be as dignified or undignified as you want - within the bounds of the ToS.

Policies? go read your ToS

A voice? Go post your ideas on Moderation. Just as with a company, if the idea has merit the boss will adopt it. If not, they won't. You, however, do not get to decide what is in the best interest of the company. That final decision is NEVER in the hands of the employees.


Fact is - you have everything you want. You just want to hold hands and do it in a group with catchy protest songs or some such lame thing.


What's the point in that?

Seniority might be the basis for selection of mOd selectors.
A company gets a union by not listening to the workforce. NS is no different, we want a say in how things are run. The final decision is still Management. We might want a grievance procedure.., all these will be voted on at membership meetings.

A company gets a union by not listening to the workforce. NS is no different, we want a say in how things are run.

Mistaken (and broken) parallel: 'we' - the non-Moderator/Administrators -are not a workforce, we are at best consumers.

Mistaken (and broken) parallel: 'we' - the non-Moderator/Administrators -are not a workforce, we are at best consumers.

Students form unions.

Students form unions.

Students have, in essence, a contract with their educational establishment whereby there is the obligation that not only does the place of education carry out certain tasks (frex, giving lectures, holding examinations, awarding qualifications), but also that the students themselves carry out certain tasks (frex, attending lectures, undergoing examinations, submitting papers). Here there is no such obligation on the non-mod/admin user.

Students have, in essence, a contract with their educational establishment whereby there is the obligation that not only does the place of education carry out certain tasks (frex, giving lectures, holding examinations, awarding qualifications), but also that the students themselves carry out certain tasks (frex, attending lectures, undergoing examinations, submitting papers). Here there is no such obligation on the non-mod/admin user.


We have a contract (TOS) The mOds clean up the place, we post.

We have a contract (TOS) The mOds clean up the place, we post.

That contract does not require that we do anything, only that we refrain from doing certain things.

That contract does not require that we do anything, only that we refrain from doing certain things.

Well, one could sign up and just sit there.

That'd be fun.

I decided to join the fun. :D

NO poster on NS is a worker in any sense. They perform no necessary duties, they get no reward for anything they do here, and they have no obligations.

Unions are formed by employees or those obligated by others to perform certain duties in some way. As no NS player is under obligation to do anything (just to NOT do certain things), you have no leg to stand on.

As has been said by many good players, your presence, my presence, anyone's presence is not necessary here. Whether we post or not is inconsequential.

First, this game provides no profit back to the mods or Max Barry, except through sales of his book. But then, I think he's probably doing well enough not to worry excessively about it. Jolt does gain money, but then they also gain the hassle of having to deal with all of us on their servers. Sometimes I wonder if they don't have the short end of the stick. :D

Second, there will never be a movement large enough to encompass everyone that posts on these boards. NS people are too contrary for that. :p If you start something, there will be people that oppose you simply to oppose you. Let alone those that oppose you because they disagree with your ideas. Even the rules that have been implemented because of player feedback can be hated by players. The only thing we can all agree on is that NS is fun. ;)

Plus, I don't see you canvassing the people that never touch these forums. And yet, in some cases, they're more affected by mod rules than you are. You're missing a large portion of NS.

The NS Local 8976, considering that it has been summoned to establish the constitution of the forum, to effect the regeneration of the public order, and to maintain the true principles of modship; that nothing can prevent it from continuing its deliberations in whatever place it may be forced to establish itself; and, finally, that wheresoever its members are assembled, there is the NS Local 8976;

Decrees that all members of the NS Local 8976 shall immediately take a solemn oath not to stop posting, and to start new topics wherever circumstances require, until the constitution of the forum is established and consolidated upon firm foundations; and that, the said oath taken, all members and each one of them individually shall ratify this steadfast resolution by a message in their signature.

Good, very good.

Thank you. :)

second chinkopodia's proposal

Thank you again. :p

First post after the sticky!

I decided to join the fun. :D

NO poster on NS is a worker in any sense. They perform no necessary duties, they get no reward for anything they do here, and they have no obligations.

Unions are formed by employees or those obligated by others to perform certain duties in some way. As no NS player is under obligation to do anything (just to NOT do certain things), you have no leg to stand on.

As has been said by many good players, your presence, my presence, anyone's presence is not necessary here. Whether we post or not is inconsequential.

First, this game provides no profit back to the mods or Max Barry, except through sales of his book. But then, I think he's probably doing well enough not to worry excessively about it. Jolt does gain money, but then they also gain the hassle of having to deal with all of us on their servers. Sometimes I wonder if they don't have the short end of the stick. :D

Second, there will never be a movement large enough to encompass everyone that posts on these boards. NS people are too contrary for that. :p If you start something, there will be people that oppose you simply to oppose you. Let alone those that oppose you because they disagree with your ideas. Even the rules that have been implemented because of player feedback can be hated by players. The only thing we can all agree on is that NS is fun. ;)

Plus, I don't see you canvassing the people that never touch these forums. And yet, in some cases, they're more affected by mod rules than you are. You're missing a large portion of NS.

Good point[s].

Hmmm.....If this does eventually become something, in what form will it be so? Probably a system where we vote on things and the mods veto passed votes if they'e too ridiculous (i.e - allow pr0n!)

Any thoughts?

First post after the sticky!

I was under the impression that it was stickied several hours ago.

Word Games , if I do this I don't want to be Rosa Parks and thrown in front of the bus, if I'm gonna be a outspoken black woman I want to be this woman (http://www.sonoma.edu/pubs/release/2002/davis.jpeg)

I was under the impression that it was stickied several hours ago.
Yeah, it was stickied at the same time that Rep Prod the Ninja Mod posted about it.

EDIT:
Eww, it's all sticky!
:)

Good point[s].

Hmmm.....If this does eventually become something, in what form will it be so? Probably a system where we vote on things and the mods veto passed votes if they'e too ridiculous (i.e - allow pr0n!)

Any thoughts?

yeah, that's what I was thinking too. We come up with ideas, discuss and develop them, then we have a vote on whether we should present it to the mods. We really don't have any real power, so it's pointless to pretend we can influence the mods decisions. The union would be better off as a thinktank.

EDIT:
Eww, it's all sticky!
:)
Probably the best edit I've ever red. :)

Word Games , if I do this I don't want to be Rosa Parks and thrown in front of the bus, if I'm gonna be a outspoken black woman I want to be this woman (http://www.sonoma.edu/pubs/release/2002/davis.jpeg)

You could tone down the hair..

You could tone down the hair..

so what is going to be the plan?
i was reading about Lech Walesa and Solidariity Movement (Solidarność), on like how it you know all started as this trade union thing and it like sort of evolved into this big thing so it wasn't you know just about being a trade union and stuff and then they all went out to protest and peacefully brought down the Communist government.

I decided to join the fun. :D

NO poster on NS is a worker in any sense. They perform no necessary duties, they get no reward for anything they do here, and they have no obligations.

Unions are formed by employees or those obligated by others to perform certain duties in some way. As no NS player is under obligation to do anything (just to NOT do certain things), you have no leg to stand on.

As has been said by many good players, your presence, my presence, anyone's presence is not necessary here. Whether we post or not is inconsequential.

First, this game provides no profit back to the mods or Max Barry, except through sales of his book. But then, I think he's probably doing well enough not to worry excessively about it. Jolt does gain money, but then they also gain the hassle of having to deal with all of us on their servers. Sometimes I wonder if they don't have the short end of the stick. :D

Second, there will never be a movement large enough to encompass everyone that posts on these boards. NS people are too contrary for that. :p If you start something, there will be people that oppose you simply to oppose you. Let alone those that oppose you because they disagree with your ideas. Even the rules that have been implemented because of player feedback can be hated by players. The only thing we can all agree on is that NS is fun. ;)

Plus, I don't see you canvassing the people that never touch these forums. And yet, in some cases, they're more affected by mod rules than you are. You're missing a large portion of NS.


What if we get alot of support?

This has got alot of attention, even if alot of it is negative to the idea. Why is this thread causing such heated discussion? Perhaps the idea scares some folks. If the idea was that stupid it would not merit a negative post, nevermind alot of negative posts.

The idea of change has caught on, the idea of some form of protest has some folks excited and has others worried. I think it is an idea that has legs.

so what is going to be the plan?
i was reading about Lech Walesa and Solidariity Movement (Solidarność), on like how it you know all started as this trade union thing and it like sort of evolved into this big thing so it wasn't you know just about being a trade union and stuff and then they all went out to protest and peacefully brought down the Communist government.

I think we should spread the word. Ask folks to change their sigs. At some point we can begin the first membership meeting.

with what Erastide, said, I am going to go back to the fence, I just want some really good arguments, So back to the fence I go!

*climbs on fence, and stays there*

I think we should spread the word. Ask folks to change their sigs. At some point we can begin the first membership meeting.

We do need more members to have our first meeting, but I think we need to discuss the issues a little to make this thread more interesting. Then people would be more likely to want to join.

with what erasticide, said, I am going to go back to the fence, I just want some really good arguments, So back to the fence I go!

*climbs on fence, and stays there*


Like I said to Eras, maybe this has alot of folks worried. It is really quite simple in concept. Changes come through this kind of action. Fence sitters will get sore watching others take risks.

If you are happy with the way things are done, keep sitting. If you have some ideas that you want aired, or just grievances about your treatment, sign up. Then attend the coming membership meeting.

I think we should spread the word. Ask folks to change their sigs. At some point we can begin the first membership meeting.

I think we should clear up a few things on what this is really about to the people so they don't get turned off - this is a community of individuals organizing for the empowerment of their community, this a community empowering itself for the building of a better community - this is a community advocating a participatory culture in which we only ask "Never let others do for you, what you can do for yourself"

ok you be Huey Newton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party) and i'll be Angela davis , hows that?

Like I said to Eras, maybe this has alot of folks worried. It is really quite simple in concept. Changes come through this kind of action. Fence sitters will get sore watching others take risks.

If you are happy with the way things are done, keep sitting. If you have some ideas that you want aired, or just grievances about your treatment, sign up. Then attend the coming membership meeting.
how about I attend the meeting then decide?

I think we should clear up a few things on what this is really about to the people so they don't get turned off - this is a community of individuals organizing for the empowerment of their community, this a community empowering itself for the building of a better community - this is a community advocating a participatory culture in which we only ask "Never let others do for you, what you can do for yourself"

ok you be Huey Newton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party) and i'll be Angela davis , hows that?

That sounds good. (both ideas)http://www.pbs.org/hueypnewton/images/huey_hueyback.jpg

http://www.hippy.com/archives/pantherlogo.gif

how about I attend the meeting then decide?

In order to achieve some semblence of order, I thought Robert's (Rogets)Rules of Order would be followed. Furthur I was considering asking only signed up members to post. Anyone can attend, but the chair will only recognise members in good standing.

In order to achieve some semblence of order, I thought Robert's (Rogets)Rules of Order would be followed. Furthur I was considering asking only signed up members to post. Anyone can attend, but the chair will only recognise members in good standing.

So, will this meeting be in a separate thread?

In order to achieve some semblence of order, I thought Robert's (Rogets)Rules of Order would be followed. Furthur I was considering asking only signed up members to post. Anyone can attend, but the chair will only recognise members in good standing.
Brother Word Games, I suggest we organize around the principles of community noew rather than that of a labor or trade union, that way we will be more inclusive rather then exclusive , we should be committed to developing membership as well as leadership, and we should be the ones advocating that every member of the community has a voice that needs to be heard

Right on!

Brother Word Games, I suggest with organized around the principles of community noew rather than that of a labor or trade union, that way we will be more inclusive rather then exclusive , we should be committed to developing membership as well as leadership, and we should be the ones advocating that every member of the community has a voice that needs to be heard

Right on!

Good idea, NB. I think anyone should be allowed to post in the meeting, as long as they're saying something constructive.

So, will this meeting be in a separate thread?

It would seem appropriate, this is a sign up thread, but discussion is ok.
I'm not sure how long this thread will be allowed to grow, if it's "considered" spam, it's gone after so many pages.

I think the meeting should be orderly and this thread is kinda not that way, changing it mid-stream would prove problematic.

Brother Word Games, I suggest we organize around the principles of community noew rather than that of a labor or trade union, that way we will be more inclusive rather then exclusive , we should be committed to developing membership as well as leadership, and we should be the ones advocating that every member of the community has a voice that needs to be heard

Right on!

Ok, explain this a bit furthur, for us old folks.

In order to achieve some semblence of order, I thought Robert's (Rogets)Rules of Order would be followed. Furthur I was considering asking only signed up members to post. Anyone can attend, but the chair will only recognise members in good standing.
that was the plan except for a tag

Good idea, NB. I think anyone should be allowed to post in the meeting, as long as they're saying something constructive.

Yes Brother Chicken, but we should also ask those who do participate to respect the nature of the meeting and to always keep a civil tone, after we are a community

It would seem appropriate, this is a sign up thread, but discussion is ok.
I'm not sure how long this thread will be allowed to grow, if it's "considered" spam, it's gone after so many pages.

I think the meeting should be orderly and this thread is kinda not that way, changing it mid-stream would prove problematic.

I think it'll be locked and destickified if it gets too long. Who knows, maybe we'll get another one?

Anyway, I agree. If the meeting is in this thread, people will probably miss the fact that we're holding a meeting and it would get mixed up with posts asking to join the union and stuff.

that was the plan except for a tag

A name tag? The sig will accomplish that..

Ok, explain this a bit furthur, for us old folks.
Ok instead of it like being like a labor union meeting we make it a community or neighborhood meeting that way we are inclusive and everyone who wants too participates, but they have to like participate has a member of the community with the communities interest in mind

A name tag? The sig will accomplish that..
ok, that was pretty funny, but you know what I mean

Ok instead of it like being like a labor union meeting we make it a community or neighborhood meeting that way we are inclusive and everyone who wants too participates, but they have to like participate has a member of the community with the communities interest in mind


Sister Nihi. It's a membership meeting and members drive the direction. I'm not sure that the meeting will be orderly without following some guidelines. It was a suggestion to achieve some order out of chaos. I'm not real hung up on this but how will the meeting resolve anything with all the non-members shouting "This is stupid!" and the like?

ok, that was pretty funny, but you know what I mean

I'm afraid I don't. What tag do you mean?

What if we get alot of support?

This has got alot of attention, even if alot of it is negative to the idea. Why is this thread causing such heated discussion? Perhaps the idea scares some folks. If the idea was that stupid it would not merit a negative post, nevermind alot of negative posts.

The idea of change has caught on, the idea of some form of protest has some folks excited and has others worried. I think it is an idea that has legs.
Maybe people react negatively to this idea because it comes out looking like this:

Disgruntled player: "By God I want a say in the way things are run around here. Nevermind the fact that this is a FREE service on a PRIVATE website that I am under NO OBLIGATION to visit. Nevermind the fact that I choose to log on under my own free will and that this site was for a long time maintained out of the kindness of the owner's heart. Nevermind the fact that the moderation staff consists of volunteers, that this website doesn't fall under the covereage of the US consitution. I want my rights damnit, as imaginary as they may be.

I know, lets all strike, disregarding that we don't work for the website. We can make all sorts of noise and compare our struggle to the Montgomery Bus Boycott. Granted our imagined struggle isn't worth mentioning in the same breath as the Montgomery Bus Boycott, but maybe it'll help our cause."

I'm afraid I don't. What tag do you mean?
a tag to get the thread under my subscriptions

Nevermind the fact that this is a FREE service

Nevermind, the fact that this service is not free

Nevermind, the fact that this service is not free

In theory it isn't, because we do get adverts (small unobstrusive banner adverts). However, we don't actually pay any money ourselves, the advertisers do.

Sister Nihi. It's a membership meeting and members drive the direction. I'm not sure that the meeting will be orderly without following some guidelines. It was a suggestion to achieve some order out of chaos. I'm not real hung up on this but how will the meeting resolve anything with all the non-members shouting "This is stupid!" and the like?

ok but we just let the people know that this is a Community Organization in the interest of the whole community

..
Nevermind the fact that this is a FREE service..

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Besides, it's a game, right?

ok but we just let the people know that this is a Community Organization in the interest of the whole community

Community it is, Sister.

Right on, my Brother
All Power to the People!

a tag to get the thread under my subscriptions
:)

Nevermind, the fact that this service is not free
Oh, and how is it not free?

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Besides, it's a game, right?
Do you pay a fee to participate in this game? No

Are you forced to view commercials and ads? No (The ads are there, but it's simple enough to ignore them)

And yes, it is a game. Which makes me wonder why you're running about demanding improvements to your imagined rights.

Oh, and how is it not free?

Any site that has lots of traffic, or "hits" and brodcasts banner ads, is making money on the internet.

If you drive a company car with a logo on it, its not a free car.

If you get a balloon with a logo on it its not a free balloon.

If you get a balloon as you walk out of the circus, its not a free balloon.

Any site that has lots of traffic, or "hits" and brodcasts banner ads, is making money on the internet.

If you drive a company car with a logo on it, its not a free car.

If you get a balloon with a logo on it its not a free balloon.

If you get a balloon as you walk out of the circus, its not a free balloon.

But you gain the benefits of the product without it costing you anything because you're advertising it, right? It's mutually beneficial.

Your example of balloons and logos? Well, it isn't free for whoever paid for it, but it is free for you. Which is the issue here, really, if you stop to think about it.

Bottom line is, what you're doing here, with these hundreds of posts, is defeating the very purpose you claim to be working towards.

Every post means a new banner, a new hit. Every time you respond here, every time you post some lame one-liner, every time you put a smiley and that's it, every time you pause to make some irrelevant point or spam up the board ...

You're shooting your 'cause' in the foot. Simple as that.

Besides which. We've seen how you work. We've seen you proclaim loudly the glories of spam and how it ought to be allowed to chunk up the bandwidth. That's all this is, really. An elaborate ruse to allow you to yammer on about whatever you like and spam, spam, spam to your heart's content, isn't it? Truth is, you lack the willpower to initiate and follow through with an actual boycott. You wouldn't last a full day. You can't even go a few minutes without posting. One day isn't enough to draw anyone's attention anyway. Boycotts take time, and support - which you just don't seem to have enough of.

Go for it. Boycott. I dare you. Frankly, I don't think you have the balls. *grins*

But you gain the benefits of the product without it costing you anything because you're advertising it, right? It's mutually beneficial.

Brother Chicken, they get something, I get something. Just because i walk into a restaurant it doesnt mean i give the waitress or the cook permission to spit in my soup! if they do spit in my soup i reserve the right to complain to those in charge, if some people like their soup with spit in it thats is their problem but i dont
Now ask yourself brother-man do you like spit in your soup?

This is really hitting some hot buttons with some folks.

Fight on, my union brothas and sistas! I am all up in this union business like a white on a pig! If you guys go on strike, by golly-gee, I'll not post with ya! Take THAT, The Establishment!

Your example of balloons and logos? Well, it isn't free for whoever paid for it, but it is free for you. Which is the issue here, really, if you stop to think about it.

Bottom line is, what you're doing here, with these hundreds of posts, is defeating the very purpose you claim to be working towards.

Every post means a new banner, a new hit. Every time you respond here, every time you post some lame one-liner, every time you put a smiley and that's it, every time you pause to make some irrelevant point or spam up the board ...

You're shooting your 'cause' in the foot. Simple as that.

Besides which. We've seen how you work. We've seen you proclaim loudly the glories of spam and how it ought to be allowed to chunk up the bandwidth. That's all this is, really. An elaborate ruse to allow you to yammer on about whatever you like and spam, spam, spam to your heart's content, isn't it? Truth is, you lack the willpower to initiate and follow through with an actual boycott. You wouldn't last a full day. You can't even go a few minutes without posting. One day isn't enough to draw anyone's attention anyway. Boycotts take time, and support - which you just don't seem to have enough of.

Go for it. Boycott. I dare you. Frankly, I don't think you have the balls. *grins*

This is really bothering you.

Brother Chicken, they get something, I get something. Just because i walk into a restaurant it doesnt mean i give the waitress or the cook permission to spit in my soup! if they do spit in my soup i reserve the right to complain to those in charge, if some people like their soup with spit in it thats is their problem but i dont
Now ask yourself brother-man do you like spit in your soup?

That isn't quite accurate. The mods do work hard and they aren't out to spoil your fun. A better analogy would be: you walk into a restaurant and it gives the cook or waitress permission to cook you a meal which is slightly below your preferred standard, for free.

Come on, WG, you know the mods aren't all that bad. We may want some change, but that doesn't mean that the current status quo is unbearable.

Unless, of course, you are playing Nomic (http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/nomic.htm#initial set).
Now that's a game I haven't played, or even seen referenced, in a long, long time. I'm glad to see someone else remembers it, and not at all surprised it happens to be you.

Come on, WG, you know the mods aren't all that bad. We may want some change, but that doesn't mean that the current status quo is unbearable.

The current status quo isn't unbearable? THE CURRENT STATUS QUO ISN'T UNBEARABLE!? Do you know how much bureaucracy I had to go through just to get this nation restored? I'm a LEGEND! I'm only WHISPERED about in these forums for fear that my mighty hammer will fall swiftly upon those who displease me!

Where's my servin' wenches!?

Fight on, my union brothas and sistas! I am all up in this union business like a white on a pig! If you guys go on strike, by golly-gee, I'll not post with ya! Take THAT, The Establishment!

Brother Slaggy, may I be the first to welcome you! :) May you be the first of many Ex Mods to sign up.

The current status quo isn't unbearable? THE CURRENT STATUS QUO ISN'T UNBEARABLE!? Do you know how much bureaucracy I had to go through just to get this nation restored? I'm a LEGEND! I'm only WHISPERED about in these forums for fear that my mighty hammer will fall swiftly upon those who displease me!

Where's my servin' wenches!?
OH how can I displease you?

Brother Slaggy, may I be the first to welcome you! :) May you be the first of many Ex Mods to sign up.
ok now i'm afraid, I don't wanna displease him anymore

OH how can I displease you?

You may displease me by not gettin' me a danish! Now!

Brother Slaggy, may I be the first to welcome you! May you be the first of many Ex Mods to sign up.

Damn straight, fool. I be gettin' my home taco Enodia an' my sheezy-deezy brizzo Amerigo up in here to show alla y'alls what REAL ex-moddin' is like!

You may displease me by not gettin' me a danish! Now!
I take orders from no man

I take orders from no man

...I am no man!

http://www.leefleming.com/neurotwitch/archives/Eowyn.jpg

All right, fizzools, I be goin' out for a nappy before I go bat-shizzle on my Statistixxx. P'S!

Damn straight, fool. I be gettin' my home taco Enodia an' my sheezy-deezy brizzo Amerigo up in here to show alla y'alls what REAL ex-moddin' is like!


Ok no danish it is, and no butter neither, right after my break I'll get right on not getting it for you.

It's a wonder the mOds didn't think of this first. Long hours, no pay..

There's a strike that would be noticed.

...I am no man!
Damn, you got me!

*goes and gets a danish*

That isn't quite accurate. The mods do work hard and they aren't out to spoil your fun. A better analogy would be: you walk into a restaurant and it gives the cook or waitress permission to cook you a meal which is slightly below your preferred standard, for free.

Come on, WG, you know the mods aren't all that bad. We may want some change, but that doesn't mean that the current status quo is unbearable.

ok maybe, but its more like Sam Woo's BBQ Restaurant in Irvine (http://www.greggman.com/restaurants/oc/1999-03-09resto-16.htm), but if i walk into a restaurant and they give me some "free" soy-braised duck and I have to listen to some guy selling time shares in Nebraska then it ain't free duck

Tanstaafd!

Tanstaafd!

'Tanstaafl', shurely?

'Tanstaafl', shurely?

She said "it ain't free duck :)

This is really bothering you.


Actually ... it's not bothering me. It's amusing me. See the grins? Yep ... that'd be it. I'm just sitting back waiting to see how all this pans. If nothing else, s' been a good chuckle.

*gets out the popcorn and continues to watch the show*

Now that's a game I haven't played, or even seen referenced, in a long, long time. I'm glad to see someone else remembers it, and not at all surprised it happens to be you.

Kudos: I'm not entirely surprised myself that you are one of the people that has actually encountered it before.

ok maybe, but its more like Sam Woo's BBQ Restaurant in Irvine (http://www.greggman.com/restaurants/oc/1999-03-09resto-16.htm), but if i walk into a restaurant and they give me some "free" soy-braised duck and I have to listen to some guy selling time shares in Nebraska then it ain't free duck

How about if you walk into some restaurant and they give you a lunch for no money, but there is a poster advertising some product on the wall: in what way has this meal cost you anything?

How about if you walk into some restaurant and they give you a lunch for no money, but there is a poster advertising some product on the wall: in what way has this meal cost you anything?
Okay is my computer my property or isn't it?

Okay is my computer my property or isn't it?

I assume that it is yours, what reference does this have to the matter at hand?

I assume that it is yours, what reference does this have to the matter at hand?

So these ads, data miners and cookies are all occupying space in my machine and I am supposed to expect nothing in return? Is that what you are saying? Because that is exactly what they do, they occupy space that belongs to me

So these ads, data miners and cookies are all occupying space in my machine and I am supposed to expect nothing in return? Is that what you are saying? Because that is exactly what they do, they occupy space that belongs to me

That ad occupies space in my brain. That evil ad.

So these ads, data miners and cookies are all occupying space in my machine and I am supposed to expect nothing in return? Is that what you are saying? Because that is exactly what they do, they occupy space that belongs to me

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but a half-way decent browser can be configured to refuse all of the items that you are complaining about, no?

So these ads, data miners and cookies are all occupying space in my machine and I am supposed to expect nothing in return? Is that what you are saying? Because that is exactly what they do, they occupy space that belongs to me

You gave information about yourself and your e-mail address. Can you say sold to spammers?

ok maybe, but its more like Sam Woo's BBQ Restaurant in Irvine (http://www.greggman.com/restaurants/oc/1999-03-09resto-16.htm), but if i walk into a restaurant and they give me some "free" soy-braised duck and I have to listen to some guy selling time shares in Nebraska then it ain't free duck


True, but you still don't have the right to go back to Sam's and demand that you get Imperial Chicken and a presentation on electrolux vacuums instead.

That ad occupies space in my brain. That evil ad.
its occupying space on my hard drive, so it is costing me something.

You gave information about yourself and your e-mail address. Can you say sold to spammers?

Shred of evidence that the email address has actually been sold to spammers? - and besides that the email address is only required to access Jolt forums, not the NS game itself, no?

Shred of evidence that the email address has actually been sold to spammers? - and besides that the email address is only required to access Jolt forums, not the NS game itself, no?

We are not protesting the game.

True, but you still don't have the right to go back to Sam's and demand that you get Imperial Chicken and a presentation on electrolux vacuums instead.

you better think about flying under my radar before you come under my scrutiny, i have been known to make grown men cry ( for what reason i will not tell you but believe me i have done it)

damn white cracker left wing intellectuals, they are the first to betray the people when the people want change

So these ads, data miners and cookies are all occupying space in my machine and I am supposed to expect nothing in return? Is that what you are saying? Because that is exactly what they do, they occupy space that belongs to me

If you stopped coming to this site of your own free will, you'd no longer have to deal with any of those.

By coming to the site, you accept the fact that you'll deal with advertising and be subject to cookies and so forth. That means that by coming here of your own free will, you lose any right to bitch about them.

This is really bothering you.

And you seem to be taking ever so much pleasure out of that. What a nice person you must be, to take such joy out of aggrivating people on an online forum.

I wonder if we can say troll?

We are not protesting the game.

So, you are protesting the forums? You are protesting the actions of the person who (presumably) has paid for the privilege of having their forums hosted on Jolt? - here's an idea for you then, have a collection within the union and then pay to host your own Forums here with whatever spam-friendly moderation that you desire under the name of 'I Can't Believe Its Not NationStates'*.




* or whatever non-copyright/intellectual property infringing flag of convenience comes to mind.

If you stopped coming to this site of your own free will, you'd no longer have to deal with any of those.

By coming to the site, you accept the fact that you'll deal with advertising and be subject to cookies and so forth. That means that by coming here of your own free will, you lose any right to bitch about them.
Who you calling a bitch?
How about just I take my ass and go over to the FTC and register a complaint because I don't see any goddamn privacy policy giving me reasonable disclosure of what they put there and what they are doing with it that is required by law when sites put that shit on my hard drive

Who you calling a bitch?

Are you aware of the difference between verbs and nouns?

How about just I take my ass and go over to the FTC and register a complaint because I don't see any goddamn privacy policy giving me reasonable disclosure of what they put there and what they are doing with it that is required by law when sites put that shit on my hard drive

Are you claiming recourse to American legislation wrt a site hosted in the UK and owned by an Australian?

Who you calling a bitch?
How about just I take my ass and go over to the FTC and register a complaint because I don't see any goddamn privacy policy giving me reasonable disclosure of what they put there and what they are doing with it that is required by law when sites put that shit on my hard drive

'bitch' there is a verb. To bitch is essentially to complain without cause. Do try and keep up.

And you know about the cookies and ads *now* anyway. You come here regardless. It would be a remarkably simple matter to remove the data miners etc and then not come back.

Every time you come back here after the point you found out about the cookies and so forth, you undermined your right to complain about them. If you want to take action about that, you have to stop posting here altogether and send off some angry emails.

Although I'm betting the ToS* have been written so that you don't have a leg to stand on.


*I might have the terminology mixed up here... I mean the thing you have to 'agree' to to access the forum.

Are you claiming recourse to American legislation wrt a site hosted in the UK and owned by an Australian?

Goes to show you don't know shit about Article 25, and until you get some edumacation on international treaties regarding telecommunication I would suggest you shut up before someone schools you in it- do you want me to school you in it

Goes to show you don't know shit about Article 25, and until you get some edumacation on international treaties regarding telecommunication I would suggest you shut up before someone schools you in it- do you want me to school you in it

Note how the point to which you are responding was phrased as a question, rather than a statement, other than that please do, I am here to learn, after all.

read this

Terms & Conditions of Use
In English
NationStates is a free online political game. Players are expected to respect the fun, humorous atmosphere of the game, and remain civil when interacting with each other. However, because this is politics, the site is open to anyone, you can post messages, and there are more players than moderators, someone may post content you find objectionable. You understand that this is the case, and agree that NationStates.net is a forum, not a publisher, and is not responsible for posts by players.

In Legalese
BY USING THIS SITE, YOU SIGNIFY YOUR ACCEPTANCE TO THESE TERMS OF USE. If you do not agree to these terms and conditions, do not use this site.

You may submit content to NationStates.net so long as it is not obscene, illegal, threatening, malicious, or defamatory, does not invade the privacy or infringe the intellectual property of a third party, and does not constitute "spam." You may not use a false e-mail address, impersonate any person or entity, attempt to "hack" the site or another player's account, nor otherwise mislead as to the origin of information.

Should you breach these terms and conditions you agree to indemnify NationStates, Max Barry, and any and all employees, agents, administrators, moderators, volunteers, and affiliates associated with NationStates.net from and against any and all third party claims, demands, liabilities, costs or expenses, including reasonable legal fees.

You understand that this site is open to the general public, and agree that while using it you may encounter content posted by other users that you consider objectionable. You understand that while reasonable efforts will be exerted to ensure the site remains free from offensive and illegal content, the site administrator(s) and/or moderator(s) cannot control what other people upload. All responsibility whatsoever is expressly disclaimed for content posted by the general public.

You understand that this web site contains satiric content, and presents views and opinions exagerated for the purposes of parody.

Where your country of access imposes laws regulating this web site, you agree to use your best efforts to comply with them.

All content, services, and software on this web site are provided "as is" without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. You assume total responsibility and risk for your use of the web site.

When you submit content to NationStates.net, you grant the site and its administrator(s) a non-exclusive, royalty-free, worldwide, perpetual license to reproduce, distribute, transmit, and publicly display such content.

The portion of the content of this web site that has not been submitted by users is copyright under international law Max Barry 2002-2003.

1. Must provide a valid e-mail (to do what with? perhaps sell it?)
2. Cannot impersonate any person or entity.. Does that mean RP is bad? interesting, very interesting, very very interesting.
3. Anything creative posted here is Max's. We buy space here by giving Max all rights to our intellectual property.

All content, services, and software on this web site are provided "as is" without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. You assume total responsibility and risk for your use of the web site.

Is it just me, or does this screw your right to complain about cookies/data miners?

Oooh, and what about that 'buying space with creative ideas' thing:
[QUOTE]non-exclusive[QUOTE]

The reason they make this claim is so that someone can't post an idea here, copyright it and then sue. They don't OWN the idea... you just can't sue them for displaying it, moving it from forum to forum, backing it up if they back up the forum and so forth.

It makes sense that if you post an idea here of your own free will, you can't then turn around and claim that it's illegal for NS to display it.

1. Must provide a valid e-mail (to do what with? perhaps sell it?)
2. Cannot impersonate any person or entity.. Does that mean RP is bad? interesting, very interesting, very very interesting.
3. Anything creative posted here is Max's. We buy space here by giving Max all rights to our intellectual property.

1. To confirm access to the forums: do you have a shred of evidence that any email address has been passed on to spammers?

2. Nope: it remains clear that you are posting under whatever particular nation name you chose. If however, you were to attempt to pass yourself off as the real Lord Lucan or the real government of Bolivia, then that would be a different matter.

3. What does the word 'non-exclusive' mean? As I read it, by submitting content we are allowing NS to display it, but the rights for reproduction in other media or at other locations remain with the submitter. IANAL.

And you seem to be taking ever so much pleasure out of that. What a nice person you must be, to take such joy out of aggrivating people on an online forum.

I wonder if we can say troll?

Is there any indication in my post that indicates pleasure?

read this

<snip>

1. Must provide a valid e-mail (to do what with? perhaps sell it?)
2. Cannot impersonate any person or entity.. Does that mean RP is bad? interesting, very interesting, very very interesting.
3. Anything creative posted here is Max's. We buy space here by giving Max all rights to our intellectual property.


And you agreed to it. If you elected not to read it at the time, and are now thinking it was a dumb thing to have done - well that would be too bad I guess, but is hardly relevant.

You already signed it. There is nothing illegal in it. You're stuck with it.

Is there any indication in my post that indicates pleasure?

Just your attitude in general. You're always quick to point out when people are getting upset, and always in a particuarly amused manner. Seems rather like Schadenfreude to me, at any rate.

1. To confirm access to the forums: do you have a shred of evidence that any email address has been passed on to spammers?

2. Nope: it remains clear that you are posting under whatever particular nation name you chose. If however, you were to attempt to pass yourself off as the real Lord Lucan or the real government of Bolivia, then that would be a different matter.

3. What does the word 'non-exclusive' mean? As I read it, by submitting content we are allowing NS to display it, but the rights for reproduction in other media or at other locations remain with the submitter. IANAL.


1. Since they don't say they won't they can. I don't need to prove that they have.

2. It does not say pass yourself off as a REAL person or entity.

3. It does NOT say the content remains with the submitter. It CLEARLY states it is NS property.

1. Since they don't say they won't they can. I don't need to prove that they have.

2. It does not say pass yourself off as a REAL person or entity.

3. It does NOT say the content remains with the submitter. It CLEARLY states it is NS property.

None of it looks like "reasonable disclosure" to me

this is getting far too political for me, and I also feel that heat will rise out of this, so I am getting away and never considering this "union" again

1. Since they don't say they won't they can. I don't need to prove that they have.

So, your whole definition of yourself as a worker here hinges on the possibility of someone else passing on information that they have received from you of your own free will, after you have explicitly agreed to their terms and conditions? Exactly what work are you doing here?

2. It does not say pass yourself off as a REAL person or entity.

In the RP forums it is assumed that you are 'playing' at being an entity rather than yourself, rather than 'passing yourself off' as such. The difference here is between acting and dissimulation.

In non-RP forums, then it appears that NS has the right to kick you out if you do such things as post OOC material which cdescribes yourself in less than turthful manner. If anything NS are showing leniency here by not booting users for such infractions.

3. It does NOT say the content remains with the submitter. It CLEARLY states it is NS property.

This debate hangs on the legal definiton of 'non-exclusive'. IANAL.

3. It does NOT say the content remains with the submitter. It CLEARLY states it is NS property.

NO, it actually doesn't, if you read it.

"a non-exclusive, royalty-free, worldwide, perpetual license to reproduce, distribute, transmit, and publicly display such content"

a) NON-EXCLUSIVE - that means you still retain your license on the intellectual property.

b) 'publicly display' refers to the fact that you can't sue them for letting you post things. If they didn't have this clause, people would post up chapters of novels they'd be working on, get published and then sue Jolt for posting their post... are you saying that should be legal?

c) royalty-free means you don't get paid for posting. Unless you think you should, arguing with this makes no sense

You really need to think about the big picture here, not this inane little 'omg Jolt is trying to screw us!' fanatasy you have going.

And you agreed to it. If you elected not to read it at the time, and are now thinking it was a dumb thing to have done - well that would be too bad I guess, but is hardly relevant.

You already signed it. There is nothing illegal in it. You're stuck with it.

The following comments refer to the highlighted text in order.

Its relevant to the free website theory.

Are you an authority in law? Has that been tested in a court of law?

Is anyone going to school me on how Article 25 of the FTC has relevance to the matter at hand, as has been claimed, or am I just going to have to suffer in silence?

And let's not forget the fact that Max Barry has the right to your soul! Have you guys actually read the fine print in that contract? It certainly doesn't say Max Barry doesn't get your soul; I'll tell you that much right now. Isn't it bizarre that Max Barry "conveniently" left out a soul clause in his site's Terms of Service?

or am I just going to have to suffer in silence?

Yes

Is anyone going to school me on how Article 25 of the FTC has relevance to the matter at hand, as has been claimed, or am I just going to have to suffer in silence?

You obviously need to strike until you get that information. You have a right to it!

Oh no wait, you don't.

But it sure would be nice if you got it anyway, eh?

And let's not forget the fact that Max Barry has the right to your soul!

Max Barry vs the Devil. Taking bets now, ladies and gentlemen, please...

Yes

At this point, I think it would be fair to say that the expression on my face is one which simultaneously indicates the various states of:

1.) being unconvinced,
2.) not really expecting to be convinced,
but also
3.) entertaining the vague possibility that I may be convinced in the future should it come to pass that others put forth information which would illuminate me in these matters.

And let's not forget the fact that Max Barry has the right to your soul! Have you guys actually read the fine print in that contract? It certainly doesn't say Max Barry doesn't get your soul; I'll tell you that much right now. Isn't it bizarre that Max Barry "conveniently" left out a soul clause in his site's Terms of Service?

Hehhehe, A convert! Yay! The mOd cult programming CAN be reversed. ;)

NO, it actually doesn't, if you read it.

"a non-exclusive, royalty-free, worldwide, perpetual license to reproduce, distribute, transmit, and publicly display such content"

a) NON-EXCLUSIVE - that means you still retain your license on the intellectual property.

b) 'publicly display' refers to the fact that you can't sue them for letting you post things. If they didn't have this clause, people would post up chapters of novels they'd be working on, get published and then sue Jolt for posting their post... are you saying that should be legal?

c) royalty-free means you don't get paid for posting. Unless you think you should, arguing with this makes no sense

You really need to think about the big picture here, not this inane little 'omg Jolt is trying to screw us!' fanatasy you have going.


Shows what you know about points of law, non-exclusive does not mean that I still retain license but that anyone can have it, not just the owners of the site, that it can be sold or given to anyone without my permission

Shows what you know about points of law, non-exclusive does not mean that I still retain license but that anyone can have it, not just the owners of the site, that it can be sold or given to anyone without my permission


No free duck.

At this point, I think it would be fair to say that the expression on my face is one which simultaneously indicates the various states of:

1.) being unconvinced,
2.) not really expecting to be convinced,
but also
3.) entertaining the vague possibility that I may be convinced in the future should it come to pass that others put forth information which would illuminate me in these matters.

let me put it this way, when i am in the mood to "convince" people I like people to feel my "convincing arguement" very hard, so the lesson is not forgotten. So you want to be "convinced" now or later?