NationStates Jolt Archive

This is an idea. How about forming a union? Let's discuss the options and stuff.

First draft of a historic document.. (we vote on this soon)

Originally posted by Chinkopodia

The NS Local 8976, considering that it has been summoned to establish the constitution of the forum, to effect the regeneration of the public order, and to maintain the true principles of modship; that nothing can prevent it from continuing its deliberations in whatever place it may be forced to establish itself; and, finally, that wheresoever its members are assembled, there is the NS Local 8976;

Decrees that all members of the NS Local 8976 shall immediately take a solemn oath not to stop posting, and to start new topics wherever circumstances require, until the constitution of the forum is established and consolidated upon firm foundations; and that, the said oath taken, all members and each one of them individually shall ratify this steadfast resolution by a message in their signature.[/

I think I'll edit this post for the benefit of people viewing this thread for the first time. I realise that we are in no position to have an influence over mod decisions. Yes, I think a "posting strike" is a dumb idea. I'm advocating a "think tank" kind of approach, whereby we discuss ideas amongst ourselves and vote on them before presenting them to the mods.

First we sign up members, then we have a meeting and decide (vote) on representatives, negotiators, if you like, then we can decide on demands and decide on a method of achieving these demands.

Want change? Sign up!

You talk funny.

How much is this gonna cost? Cuz I ain't payin' no union dues

How much is this gonna cost? Cuz I ain't payin' no union dues

put "Member of NS Local 8976" in your sig

I'm in!

put "Member of NS Local 8976" in your sig

Hmm...this could turn out to be quite interesting...

I guess one of the union's first demands will be to allow spam, right?

Interesting plan
Just on your Signature my feelings on spam are the US 6th Ammendment would only cover America so why should the rest of the world get the junk?

Hmm...this could turn out to be quite interesting...

I guess one of the union's first demands will be to allow spam, right?

Depends on the membership, but some spam would be nice

Depends on the membership, but some spam would be nice

Yeah, obviously some spam's a bit over the top (some of the stuff in the spam forum comes to mind), but spam-lite can be good fun.

Representation in the choice of mods...

Already three members... and I have no idea what this 'union' is. :)

Yeah, obviously some spam's a bit over the top (some of the stuff in the spam forum comes to mind), but spam-lite can be good fun.

There are hard core spammers in the Spam Forum.

Representation in the choice of mods...

Heh heh, I saw a thread a while ago asking for mod elections. The mods were understandably negative about the idea...

Representation in the choice of mods...

That could be a demand.

Unions are anti-libertarian... and therefore, unions are anti-me. I think my problem with them is that their motto is "strength in numbers." :P

There are hard core spammers in the Spam Forum.

Yeah. The "lets count to a million" thread reached over 16,000 pages, last time I looked. Post counts over 30,000 are not uncommon there.

but what leverage do we have? NS doesn't turn a profit I believe, so striking would do nothing

How about equal rights. If someone infers that I'm irrational for starting a thread on that cloven-footed harlot Angelina Jolie, I should have the right to call them irrational in return no matter who they are.

Case in question:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=389699&highlight=angelina+jolie

with references to:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=389668&highlight=angelina+jolie

Yeah. The "lets count to a million" thread reached over 16,000 pages, last time I looked. Post counts over 30,000 are not uncommon there.
there's a 150,000 uber thread going there right now, it's a tenth of the way ther already, I know cause I got post #15,000

but what leverage do we have? NS doesn't turn a profit I believe, so striking would do nothing

It all depends on how many members there are. A strike could get attention if enough people did it. I suggest that a 24 hour shut down would get some attention. They want us here and if we didn't post, just signed up and didn't post, the silence could be really loud. There are other methods of getting attention. You don't go to number one needlessly.

If we elect a negotiating team and give them a strike MANDATE. IE. poat a poll that 98% of the members have confidence in the team. They have a mandate.

Without players, no game. :cool:

Without players, no game. :cool:

Exactly. Enough members have to sign up to make it effective. A strike may not be required.

It all depends on how many members there are. A strike could get attention if enough people did it. I suggest that a 24 hour shut down would get some attention. They want us here and if we didn't post, just signed up and didn't post, the silence could be really loud. There are other methods of getting attention. You don't go to number one needlessly.

If we elect a negotiating team and give them a strike MANDATE. IE. poat a poll that 98% of the members have confidence in the team. They have a mandate.

Are you suggesting that by reducing the mods workload, you'll force them into taking action to increase their workload?

Seems to me they'd either check the forum less frequently to deal with those of us still posting, or just wait 24 hours for activity to resume.

Feel free to explain how you know 'they want us here'. Feel free to quantify 'us' and 'here'. Personally I'm rather curious.

Are you suggesting that by reducing the mods workload, you'll force them into taking action to increase their workload?

Seems to me they'd either check the forum less frequently to deal with those of us still posting, or just wait 24 hours for activity to resume.

Feel free to explain how you know 'they want us here'. Feel free to quantify 'us' and 'here'. Personally I'm rather curious.

You are so smart... and pretty... I should have been a lesbian.

^ Sorry, off-topic. <_< Anyway, good questions. I'll wait for responses before I say anything else stupid.

Exactly. Enough members have to sign up to make it effective. A strike may not be required.
fine then, I'll bite

but what leverage do we have? NS doesn't turn a profit I believe, so striking would do nothing
Doesn't turn a profit? Well someone is, I see adverts, I see data miners in my computer, I see cookies. Someone is turning a profit.

Are you suggesting that by reducing the mods workload, you'll force them into taking action to increase their workload?

Seems to me they'd either check the forum less frequently to deal with those of us still posting, or just wait 24 hours for activity to resume.

Feel free to explain how you know 'they want us here'. Feel free to quantify 'us' and 'here'. Personally I'm rather curious.

Well, they are the mods, but they are also members of the forum. If all conversation ceased, we wouldn't be happy about it, would we? Why would the mods be?

That said, I'm not sure a "strike" would be all that effective. I really doubt that many people will join the union and agree to participate in a strike.

Are you suggesting that by reducing the mods workload, you'll force them into taking action to increase their workload?

Seems to me they'd either check the forum less frequently to deal with those of us still posting, or just wait 24 hours for activity to resume.

Feel free to explain how you know 'they want us here'. Feel free to quantify 'us' and 'here'. Personally I'm rather curious.

As I said a strike may not be required.

They want us here because the site exists. Traffic is a measure of the interest in the site. Advertising is attracted to popular sites. NS mOds may not really care one way or another as Max may not really care but Jolt will care.

We should never have a strike, but we must make THEM believe we would. ;)

You are so smart... and pretty... I should have been a lesbian.

^ Sorry, off-topic. <_< Anyway, good questions. I'll wait for responses before I say anything else stupid.

Meep. *hides in pillow fort*
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Shaed/blush.bmp:D

Admirers scare me ^.^

*gives Lakren some cookies from the tin she won*

...

um, /off-topic-ness.

Admirers scare me ^.^


I won't admire you anymore then... *goes away*

... *admires from a distance* xD

EDIT: Okay, I'm seriously done now.

We should never have a strike, but we must make THEM believe we would. ;)

Shhh! They're watching us... <_< >_>

We should never have a strike, but we must make THEM believe we would. ;)

Exactly.

Nobody ever really WANTS a strike. The hockey players don't want a strike, the owners don't want a strike. They had a union for many years before this years labour disruption.

As I said a strike may not be required.

They want us here because the site exists. Traffic is a measure of the interest in the site. Advertising is attracted to popular sites. NS mOds may not really care one way or another as Max may not really care but Jolt will care.

Say that again, and please explain more.

what is this like freemasons or IC, because i think a freemasons style NS cult would be fun. i already created a communist group at my high school. (FIA)

Well, they are the mods, but they are also members of the forum. If all conversation ceased, we wouldn't be happy about it, would we? Why would the mods be?

That said, I'm not sure a "strike" would be all that effective. I really doubt that many people will join the union and agree to participate in a strike.

Personally, if all conversastion ceased for 24 hours, I'd just move onto the other forums I frequent. And what exacty would stop the mods talking amongst themselves? Have you read the first thread from after the move? They seemed to be having quite a lot of fun really.

And a complete shut down would be impossible, because there will always be people like me who find this move petty and childish (no personal offence meant, insofar as that's possible), and would remain and talk and enjoy a chance to be extra silly.

Say that again, and please explain more.

Basically, advertisers will pay more to advertise on a popular site, on which there is lots of traffic. If the forum goes quiet all of a sudden, Jolt will notice and will probably try to do something about it, so the advertisers who pay for this forum to be run are kept happy.

Less yapping, more sign-ins!

Advertising. People pay to advertise on popular sites.

When the site is not popular (less traffic) due to a strike, advertising revenue drops. The Jolt folks will will notice and force NS to listen to our demands.

Often the threat of a strike is all that is required to get management to listen to demands.

What is important is the threat has to be real. Membership has to be a significant portion of the players.

Yeah. The "lets count to a million" thread reached over 16,000 pages, last time I looked. Post counts over 30,000 are not uncommon there.
*shudders*

You want to give us a 24 hour break?
That's so thoughtful :)

And a complete shut down would be impossible, because there will always be people like me who find this move petty and childish (no personal offence meant, insofar as that's possible), and would remain and talk and enjoy a chance to be extra silly.

And it's people like you who when the Nazi's were killing innocents, turn up their noses and said "Ewww, what a horrible smell" and then ignored it.

"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it" - Martin Luther King

what is this like freemasons or IC, because i think a freemasons style NS cult would be fun. i already created a communist group at my high school. (FIA)


I'm not sure what IC is.. But if a majority of the members wanted such a cult OK. Maybe it's a different thread?

Personally, if all conversastion ceased for 24 hours, I'd just move onto the other forums I frequent. And what exacty would stop the mods talking amongst themselves? Have you read the first thread from after the move? They seemed to be having quite a lot of fun really.

And a complete shut down would be impossible, because there will always be people like me who find this move petty and childish (no personal offence meant, insofar as that's possible), and would remain and talk and enjoy a chance to be extra silly.

Yeah, that's the big problem with the idea. Not many people will realistically sign up to the union and even less will participate in a strike. In fact, slightly fewer people may even make the forum a nicer place to chat. :)

Also, there's the current problems with the forum. I don't know about everyone else, but I've been finding it to be quite slow recently. And we want to ask the mods to allow spam... :)

Advertising. People pay to advertise on popular sites.

When the site is not popular (less traffic) due to a strike, advertising revenue drops. The Jolt folks will will notice and force NS to listen to our demands.

Often the threat of a strike is all that is required to get management to listen to demands.

What is important is the threat has to be real. Membership has to be a significant portion of the players.

Excuse me? You think Jolt will FORCE Max to make NS have elected mods?

I'd really like to see an example of thise ever, ever happening in the past.

You want to give us a 24 hour break?
That's so thoughtful :)


I consider that comment a flame or a flame bait...

Give yourself a spanking

Yeah, that's the big problem with the idea. Not many people will realistically sign up to the union and even less will participate in a strike. In fact, slightly fewer people may even make the forum a nicer place to chat. :)

Also, there's the current problems with the forum. I don't know about everyone else, but I've been finding it to be quite slow recently. And we want to ask the mods to allow spam... :)

I really don't see why a portion of posters wants to allow more spam. You do realise it does actually annoy people, don't you? And that... well, quite a lot of lee-way is given already? And that... you can create another forum easily specifically for NS regulars to congregate at and spam as much as they want?

Trying to force change on a board that you don't pay for sort of seems arrogant to me... but then, I'm of the 'As long as I enjoy it more than it annoys me, I'm getting a net gain of enjoyment and will keep my complaints to myself' line of thought.

I consider that comment a flame or a flame bait...

O.O

Seriously? You *seriously* think that's flame/flame bait? I can't even begin to understand that. I guess I'm just ignorant.

And it's people like you who when the Nazi's were killing innocents, turn up their noses and said "Ewww, what a horrible smell" and then ignored it.

"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it" - Martin Luther King

Ooooh, nice comparison, nice quote. I give you A++ for your heartless propaganda and trivialisation of your opposition. Way to make your chosen cause look like an oppressive force.

If you seriously think that (not allowing spam/not having elected moderators) == (killing of a large number of human beings for a perverted cause) you need to get out more. It's an online forum, and unless you're mysteriously paying fees while the rest of us are posting for free, you have no right to DEMAND anything.

And it's people like you who when the Nazi's were killing innocents, turn up their noses and said "Ewww, what a horrible smell" and then ignored it.

"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it" - Martin Luther King

Never heard of Godwin's Law, have you?
First person to make an analogy using Nazis/Hitler automatically loses the debate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_Law

The spamming class and the modding class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as word games and post-whoring are not found among millions of the spamming people and the few, who make up the modding class, have all the good things of life.

Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the spammers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of administration, abolish the moderation system, and live in harmony with the internet.

We find that the centering of the management of forums into fewer and fewer hands makes the forum unions unable to cope with the ever growing power of the modding class. The forum unions foster a state of affairs which allows one set of spammers to be pitted against another set of spammers in the same internet, thereby helping defeat one another in spam wars. Moreover, the forum unions aid the modding class to mislead the spammers into the belief that the spamming class have interests in common with their administrators.

These conditions can be changed and the interest of the spamming class upheld only by an organization formed in such a way that all its members in any one forum, or in all of the internet if necessary, cease productive conversation whenever a strike or lockout is on in any department thereof, thus making an injury to one an injury to all.

instead of the conservative motto, "Do what you are told," we must inscribe on our banner the revolutionary watchword, "Abolition of the mod system."

It is the historic mission of the spamming class to do away with sanity. the army of spam must be organized, not only for everyday struggle with moderation, but also to carry on spam when sanity shall have been overthrown. By organizing across the entire internet we are forming the structure of the new forums within the shell of the old.

IWWWW
(the Industrial Wspammers {the w is silent} of the World Wide Web)

Never heard of Godwin's Law, have you?
First person to make an analogy using Nazis/Hitler automatically loses the debate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_Law
You lose... On the link you cited, it says... "whoever points out that Godwin's law applies to the thread is also considered to have "lost" the battle, as it is considered poor form to invoke the law explicitly."

Never heard of Godwin's Law, have you?
First person to make an analogy using Nazis/Hitler automatically loses the debate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_Law

In addition, whoever points out that Godwin's law applies to the thread is also considered to have "lost" the battle, as it is considered poor form to invoke the law explicitly

Tsktsk, silly Myrth. Now both sides have lost and we won't be able to celebrate with cookies.

I really don't see why a portion of posters wants to allow more spam. You do realise it does actually annoy people, don't you? And that... well, quite a lot of lee-way is given already? And that... you can create another forum easily specifically for NS regulars to congregate at and spam as much as they want?

Trying to force change on a board that you don't pay for sort of seems arrogant to me... but then, I'm of the 'As long as I enjoy it more than it annoys me, I'm getting a net gain of enjoyment and will keep my complaints to myself' line of thought.

I think the idea is to change the definition of spam. Proper spam is just depressing, posting random crap to increase your post count.

However, there are some things which shouldn't really be classified as spam. I saw a thread a while ago where people were writing a story by each posting a sentence or two, which was locked for being spam.

And I admit that it is arrogant to demand change for something I don't pay for. I can't really justify it in this sense. I just think the forum might be a bit nicer if spam lite were allowed.

You want to give us a 24 hour break?
That's so thoughtful :)
Myrth if you felt it neccasary to send in the Cossacks to weed out and purge these 5th Columnists then go for it.

Tsktsk, silly Myrth. Now both sides have lost and we won't be able to celebrate with cookies.

He'd already ended it with the Nazi reference.

He'd already ended it with the Nazi reference.
But you tied it with the reference to Godwin's Law.

But you tied it with the reference to Godwin's Law.

And now Nihilistic Beginners will be better educated on it in the future. The whole Nazi thing didn't go too well for him last time.

This is idiocy. Nothing more. First of all, Jolt has an incredible amount of users: the departure of a few dozen--or even a hundred or so will make absolutely no difference to them.

NS is by far the largest forum on Jolt in the first place, which means you'd have to gather a ridiculous amount of support for this, which I would wager requires much more time and effort than you have to spend.

On an offsite board, Sheol compared this movement to a "consumers union" which is a misnomer, since consumers are generally defined as people that pay for goods and services. I don't see anyone here giving NS any money. In short, you only have the rights Max chooses to grant you, and as such a "strike" [or more accurately, a "boycott"] is sort of silly, since it implies that you derive some sort of necessity from these boards.

Also, when you get right down to it, I'm sure NS isn't one of Max's primary concerns in life. Typically, he leaves the site's operation to the admin/mod staff and probably spends most of his time.. you know... writing. Since it's sort of his livelihood. He has stated on a number of occassions that he never expected NS to get this far in the first place, which probably means he wouldn't be too crushed even if this 'Union' gathered enough steam to shut the site down.

But you tied it with the reference to Godwin's Law.

I shall assume that he invoked Godwin's law as an attempt to end the thread, in which case it fails. A lesser known clause.

Wikipedia is awesome... it knows everything.

The spamming class and the modding class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as word games and post-whoring are not found among millions of the spamming people and the few, who make up the modding class, have all the good things of life.

Because everyone loves hatemail and constant harrassment, having to break up petty fights and make unpopular decisions. DAMN THOSE MODS AND THEIR HOGGING OF THE PUNISHMENT!!!

Good things in life my arse.

Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the spammers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of administration, abolish the moderation system, and live in harmony with the internet.

Because we all know that flamewars are all harmless fun *really*. And that everyone loves seeing the goatse man spammed into every thread.

Boy, I never realised how evil moderation really is.

We find that the centering of the management of forums into fewer and fewer hands makes the forum unions unable to cope with the ever growing power of the modding class. The forum unions foster a state of affairs which allows one set of spammers to be pitted against another set of spammers in the same internet, thereby helping defeat one another in spam wars. Moreover, the forum unions aid the modding class to mislead the spammers into the belief that the spamming class have interests in common with their administrators.

Power of the modding class eh? Are they now able to alter your genetic code and make you into some sort of fish-carrot monster? Or maybe they have the ability to refuse you a mortgage?

If you don't want to follow the rules of the forum, maybe (just maybe), the problem is with you, and NOT the forum.

These conditions can be changed and the interest of the spamming class upheld only by an organization formed in such a way that all its members in any one forum, or in all of the internet if necessary, cease productive conversation whenever a strike or lockout is on in any department thereof, thus making an injury to one an injury to all.

I still don't see how 'an injury to one is an injury to all'... even if it upsets Jolt, there's STILL no reason the mods would care about a 24 hour strike.

instead of the conservative motto, "Do what you are told," we must inscribe on our banner the revolutionary watchword, "Abolition of the mod system."

Well, considering my nation motto is 'Don't ask what we can do for you, but why we should', I probably don't need to comment on this.

It is the historic mission of the spamming class to do away with sanity. the army of spam must be organized, not only for everyday struggle with moderation, but also to carry on spam when sanity shall have been overthrown. By organizing across the entire internet we are forming the structure of the new forums within the shell of the old.

I quite like sanity. It's why I come here instead of going to the scary spam forum, or prodding insane homeless people.

I think the idea is to change the definition of spam. Proper spam is just depressing, posting random crap to increase your post count.

However, there are some things which shouldn't really be classified as spam. I saw a thread a while ago where people were writing a story by each posting a sentence or two, which was locked for being spam.

And I admit that it is arrogant to demand change for something I don't pay for. I can't really justify it in this sense. I just think the forum might be a bit nicer if spam lite were allowed.

Exactly! That's what I'm all about! That is why Word GAmes was created!

Because everyone loves hatemail and constant harrassment, having to break up petty fights and make unpopular decisions. DAMN THOSE MODS AND THEIR HOGGING OF THE PUNISHMENT!!!

-snip-


I think it was a parody of Marx's theories, rather than a serious argument about the mods.

The spamming class and the modding class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as word games and post-whoring are not found among millions of the spamming people and the few, who make up the modding class, have all the good things of life.

ah yes 5% holding 95% of the power

This is idiocy. Nothing more. First of all, Jolt has an incredible amount of users: the departure of a few dozen--or even a hundred or so will make absolutely no difference to them.

NS is by far the largest forum on Jolt in the first place, which means you'd have to gather a ridiculous amount of support for this, which I would wager requires much more time and effort than you have to spend.

On an offsite board, Sheol compared this movement to a "consumers union" which is a misnomer, since consumers are generally defined as people that pay for goods and services. I don't see anyone here giving NS any money. In short, you only have the rights Max chooses to grant you, and as such a "strike" [or more accurately, a "boycott"] is sort of silly, since it implies that you derive some sort of necessity from these boards.

Also, when you get right down to it, I'm sure NS isn't one of Max's primary concerns in life. Typically, he leaves the site's operation to the admin/mod staff and probably spends most of his time.. you know... writing. Since it's sort of his livelihood. He has stated on a number of occassions that he never expected NS to get this far in the first place, which probably means he wouldn't be too crushed even if this 'Union' gathered enough steam to shut the site down.

The purpose is not to shut down the site. A strike is not always required. You really all that familiar with Max?

I think it was a parody of Marx's theories, rather than a serious argument about the mods.

But it was ever so fun to reply to nonetheless.

Hell, I'm only here because this is a topic that's easy to debate. And because it's 10:30am and I can't handle debates that involve lots of thinking at this time of morning.

And now Nihilistic Beginners will be better educated on it in the future. The whole Nazi thing didn't go too well for him last time.

Yes, Comrade I have been fully re-educated, I was being counter-productive due to bad influences. This whole union thing is silly nonsense.

As for the rest of you...

Do not imagine, comrades, that modship is a pleasure. On the contrary, it is a deep and heavy responsibility. No one believes more firmly than Comrade Max that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?

The purpose is not to shut down the site. A strike is not always required. You really all that familiar with Max?

I've spoken to him at length a number of times. He even sent me a Christmas card last year.

At any rate, regardless what your purpose is, my point still stands. You're missing the forest for the trees again.

Yes, Comrade I have been fully re-educated, I was being counter-productive due to bad influences. This whole union thing is silly nonsense.

As for the rest of you...

Do not imagine, comrades, that modship is a pleasure. On the contrary, it is a deep and heavy responsibility. No one believes more firmly than Comrade Max that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?

At the point where we demand things we don't have any claim to and threaten hostile take overs that go counter to what a large number of fellow Generalites actually want, all while convincing ourselves that we are actually acting with their best interests in mind?

Hey!

Now if someone could convince the trolls and spammers to form a union and go on strike - Hell, I'd support that!


Otherwise, anyone unhappy with the board is perfectly capable of starting their own somewhere else, paying for the bandwidth, set their own rules, and making it everything that they think NS isn't.

But anyone thinking that they'll get to effectively run this one is being pretty assinine.

Hmmm...maybe we'd be better off just asking nicely...

I've spoken to him at length a number of times. He even sent me a Christmas card last year.

At any rate, regardless what your purpose is, my point still stands. You're missing the forest for the trees again.

More flamming mOds... Perhaps you are a tad overworked? Would a limit on mOd time help you out? Say limit yourselves to 2 hours of mOding at at sitting and maybe your quality of life would improve. Hours of work were improved by unions.

Let this have a chance. Union busting is a crime.

More flamming mOds... Perhaps you are a tad overworked? Would a limit on mOd time help you out? Say limit yourselves to 2 hours of mOding at at sitting and maybe your quality of life would improve. Hours of work were improved by unions.

Let this have a chance. Union busting is a crime.

Could you explain what definition of 'flaming' you're using? From what I can see, you're either using 'disagreeing with WG' or 'anything a mod says ever'. Neither are the common usage of the word, and you risk confusing people unless you clarify.

I think it was a parody of Marx's theories, rather than a serious argument about the mods.

its not marx. drop a couple w's from the name and google for it.

Ok, This doesnt makes sense for multiple reasons. (It is sad if this is so assisine Im actually replying)

1) How did this start off as an union thread then go to a debate on spam. It entirely devoids the idea of an union.

2) The idea of giving the mods a "brake" when serve no purpose to an oposing force.

3) I seriously doubt that you will ever gain enough support from NS players to even feel a slight chenge in profits for jolt.

4) I would join if it wasnt so assisine, for the fact you probably couldnt do better and you seem to be doing fine here. Sooo STOP complaining. they could just as easily kick you off or mae you pay.

5) I think I have done enough ranting before I get too off on a tangent and make more enemies than a silent nation can deal with.

(if any of you all brings up point I feel like arguing I just may)

its not marx. drop a couple w's from the name and google for it.

Ah, Industrial Workers of the World.

Word Games, we define "flaming" as posting ad hominem attacks, which I have not done. Telling someone they're "missing the forest for the trees" is not an ad hominem attack.

For the record, in case you dont know what it means:

ad homi·nem adv.
Usage Note: As the principal meaning of the preposition ad suggests, the homo of ad hominem was originally the person to whom an argument was addressed, not its subject. The phrase denoted an argument designed to appeal to the listener's emotions rather than to reason, as in the sentence 'The Republicans' evocation of pity for the small farmer struggling to maintain his property is a purely ad hominem argument for reducing inheritance taxes.' This usage appears to be waning; only 37 percent of the Usage Panel finds this sentence acceptable. The phrase now chiefly describes an argument based on the failings of an adversary rather than on the merits of the case: Ad hominem attacks on one's opponent are a tried-and-true strategy for people who have a case that is weak. Ninety percent of the Panel finds this sentence acceptable. The expression now also has a looser use in referring to any personal attack, whether or not it is part of an argument, as in It isn't in the best interests of the nation for the press to attack him in this personal, ad hominem way. This use is acceptable to 65 percent of the Panel. ·Ad hominem has also recently acquired a use as a noun denoting personal attacks, as in ?Notwithstanding all the ad hominem, Gingrich insists that he and Panetta can work together? (Washington Post). This usage may raise some eyebrows, though it appears to be gaining ground in journalistic style. ·A modern coinage patterned on ad hominem is ad feminam, as in ?Its treatment of Nabokov and its ad feminam attack on his wife Vera often border on character assassination? (Simon Karlinsky). Though some would argue that this neologism is unnecessary because the Latin word homo refers to humans generically, rather than to the male sex, in some contexts ad feminam has a more specific meaning than ad hominem, being used to describe attacks on women as women or because they are women, as in ?Their recourse... to ad feminam attacks evidences the chilly climate for women's leadership on campus? (Donna M. Riley).

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Emphasis mine.

Could you explain what definition of 'flaming' you're using? From what I can see, you're either using 'disagreeing with WG' or 'anything a mod says ever'. Neither are the common usage of the word, and you risk confusing people unless you clarify.

Labour laws protect union organizers from harassment.

Yeah, unfortunately, most online things work like dictatorships, so we have little if any power whatsoever.

Labour laws protect union organizers from harassment.

Too bad you don't work here then, huh?

At the point where we demand things we don't have any claim to and threaten hostile take overs that go counter to what a large number of fellow Generalites actually want, all while convincing ourselves that we are actually acting with their best interests in mind?
You can see Shaed, the Generalites don't know what their best interest are, having existed as mindless spamming sheep for so long. So they need the guidence of the mods to show what is best for them.

It's not harassment either. Also, labor laws dont exactly apply here, since you're not laboring.

Ah, Industrial Workers of the World.

Hee, that's funny. What a silly comparison - workers to Generalites.

Too bad you don't work here then, huh?
Hee.
I was about to say that, that it really can't be a labour union when it's not labour.

I really, really dont like having to bust out with the dictionary shit all the time, but Word Games seems to have some misunderstandings about the words he's choosing to use.

Tell me, which more accurately describes my statement:

ha·rassment n.
Synonyms: harass, harry, hound, badger, pester, plague
These verbs mean to trouble persistently or incessantly. Harass and harry imply systematic persecution by besieging with repeated annoyances, threats, or demands: The landlord harassed tenants who were behind in their rent. A rude customer had harried the storekeeper. Hound suggests unrelenting pursuit to gain a desired end: Reporters hounded the celebrity for an interview. To badger is to nag or tease persistently: The child badgered his parents for a new bicycle. To pester is to inflict a succession of petty annoyances: ?How she would have pursued and pestered me with questions and surmises? (Charlotte Brontë). Plague refers to a problem likened to an epidemic disease: ?As I have no estate, I am plagued with no tenants or stewards? (Henry Fielding).

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

OR:

disagreement

n 1: a conflict of people's opinions or actions or characters [syn: dissension, dissonance] [ant: agreement] 2: a difference between conflicting facts or claims or opinions; "a growing divergence of opinion" [syn: discrepancy, divergence, variance] 3: the speech act of disagreeing or arguing or disputing [ant: agreement]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton Universit

You can see Shaed, the Generalites don't know what their best interest are, having existed as mindless spamming sheep for so long. So they need the guidence of the mods to show what is best for them.

The mods aren't here to guide anyone.

They're here to get rid of people who break the rules of the forum. That's really pretty much it.

Too bad you don't work here then, huh?

I post here. With my typing skills, THAT'S work. :)

Look at it this way, say if this strike were to somehow work and you were all granted greater freedom to do as you pleased. Wouldn't you have to take greater responsibility for yourselves? You have to understand that not everyone is capable of being responsible and will be lost like babes in the woods. don't you think it is better to have someone guide you, someone who knows better? The mods have been thru the woods, they know were they are going, so if you don't want to become lost you had better follow them.

Check out some of the most common "UNION BUSTING" tactics.

The following is a list of some common "union-buster" strategies.
Perhaps some of them will seem familiar to you.




Supervisor pressure
Supervisors and managers will act as front-line soldiers against the union; delivering letters, speeches, and "informal" chats prepared by the union-busters. They act behind the scenes to coach management.


Captive audiences
You may be asked to attend (and possibly get paid) group meetings, or lectures about the union. These are usually not open discussions or debates.


Let's be pals
Administrators, managers, and maybe even the Union Buster himself will be everywhere day and night trying to arrange impromptu chats and meetings to find out "what's on your mind".


Letters, letters, letters
The union-busters will prepare many letters that will be signed, not by them, but by administrators, employees, and well-liked supervisors and managers. They may express appreciation for what you have done for Care. They may even admit having made mistakes in the past and express an intention to do a better job in the future. Or, they may paint a very ugly picture of the union or suggest that the union has a great deal to hide, but that you can obtain the "truth" from them.


Love offerings
In order to convince you that you don't need a union to obtain improvements, the "union-buster" may direct Care Management to provide unexpected increases in wages or benefits. They may institute or revive "employee participation" committees. If you can gain these things by merely attempting to organize, imagine what you could accomplish if you were organized. Without a union contract, what we are given can be taken away.

Divide and conquer
The union-buster will likely direct administration to play one group against another to generate disunity (e.g. "disloyal" union supporters versus "loyal" union opponents, one department against another, etc.).

False and misleading statements.
In meetings with employees or in letters sent out by management, the union buster may try to discredit the union by referring to it by the wrong name, or by giving examples of other companies that supposedly had problems with their union. They also may intentionally mislead you about dues, negotiations, and the benefits of organizing.


Illegal practices
The union buster's job is to try by any means to prevent you from voting for a union. In fact his fee may be linked to his success. He may violate your rights under the National Labor Relations Act by meeting with you while you are working, meeting with you in small groups, or by intimidating you with horror stories about the woes of organizing.

So, which of those tactics would you say that the mods have used, WG? I haven't noticed any.

Hey Word Games, how about an apology for accusing me of flaming, hmm? How about addressing my points instead of going off on some new tangent?

Concerning your Union Busting post, are you familiar with the term "sophistry?" You're deploying it rather adeptly right now, and you've been dodging just about every point that's been raised in contention with your paradigm for several pages now. Stop dodging the issue.

At any rate, I'm not trying to "bust" this Union. Hell, I'd like to see you give it your best shot to be quite honest. I think you'll be sorely disappointed.

Look at it this way, say if this strike were to somehow work and you were all granted greater freedom to do as you pleased. Wouldn't you have to take greater responsibility for yourselves? You have to understand that not everyone is capable of being responsible and will be lost like babes in the woods. don't you think it is better to have someone guide you, someone who knows better? The mods have been thru the woods, they know were they are going, so if you don't want to become lost you had better follow them.

I wouldn't have greater freedom, because I *like* not having elected mods. And I *like* limits on spam. I'd be having what I like changed because other people don't like it. Sounds like oppression by the minority (or possibly the majority, at some distant future point) to me.

And again, the mods aren't here to guide anyone. They're here to make sure everyone follows the rules and to get rid of people who don't.

If you seriously think no one would, for example, take part in UN-multying if there were no mods to punish offenders... well, I can't really say anything if you really believe that.

And it's obvious that not everyone will 'take responsibility' for themselves, because if they would, the mods would be sitting around with nothing to do.

You seem to think that productive behaviour increases in inverse proportion to moderation... I ask for you to cite any other forum of comparitive size where that's the case.

So, which of those tactics would you say that the mods have used, WG? I haven't noticed any.
neither do I! What is the point WG?

So, which of those tactics would you say that the mods have used, WG? I haven't noticed any.

I can't see them using any of those either. Maybe we're blind! Or pawns of the establishment! :eek:

I can't see them using any of those either. Maybe we're blind! Or pawns of the establishment! :eek:
I think we're secretly in league with the mods!
Oh noes!

I'd happily join the union to "negotiate" with the M0ds for better treatment

I can't see them using any of those either. Maybe we're blind! Or pawns of the establishment! :eek:
Yes were pawns and you have been moved to E4 (is that an actuall move?)

Yes were pawns and you have been moved to E4 (is that an actuall move?)

Depends where the pawn is being moved from.

Yes were pawns and you have been moved to E4 (is that an actuall move?)

yes. That'd be the King's Pawn.

neither do I! What is the point WG?

This thread got alot of mOd attention in a big hurry. That scares off would be posters and potential sign-ups.

We need mOds some posters are really off the wall.

This was suppposed to be a discussion about signing up for an NS union, actually probably better called a General Forum Union, as the RP guys have all the mOd support they need, but it went into several other directions.

People should be free to sign up of not. If you don't agree with the concept perhaps you should take your OWN advice and just stay away from this thread, or read it only.

I wouldn't have greater freedom, because I *like* not having elected mods. And I *like* limits on spam. I'd be having what I like changed because other people don't like it. Sounds like oppression by the minority (or possibly the majority, at some distant future point) to me.

And again, the mods aren't here to guide anyone. They're here to make sure everyone follows the rules and to get rid of people who don't.

If you seriously think no one would, for example, take part in UN-multying if there were no mods to punish offenders... well, I can't really say anything if you really believe that.

And it's obvious that not everyone will 'take responsibility' for themselves, because if they would, the mods would be sitting around with nothing to do.

You seem to think that productive behaviour increases in inverse proportion to moderation... I ask for you to cite any other forum of comparitive size where that's the case.


Don't get me wrong, what I'm saying is that some people are not capable of being responsible, that is why we have mods. But you have to understand that even the more experienced user can get uppity or commit a wrong ( example: often in a heated debate, even those with more experience sometimes will flame each other) and they need to be set straight rather than being gotten rid of and that is were the mods can and do act as guides to get those users back on the right track.

Officially apologizing for doing something I complained about, chaging the subject. Wasnt my intention.

This thread got alot of mOd attention in a big hurry. That scares off would be posters and potential sign-ups.

We need mOds some posters are really off the wall.

This was suppposed to be a discussion about signing up for an NS union, actually probably better called a General Forum Union, as the RP guys have all the mOd support they need, but it went into several other directions.

People should be free to sign up of not. If you don't agree with the concept perhaps you should take your OWN advice and just stay away from this thread, or read it only.

Dodged again. How nice.

Furthermore, we're allowed to post where we want, just like you are.

I'd happily join the union to "negotiate" with the M0ds for better treatment


Sign up then, Super oh Seven.

Ah, Industrial Workers of the World.

yup yup.

though i admit that i also stole the acronym from a ken macleod book

Sign up then, Super oh Seven.
*signs the forms*

This thread got alot of mOd attention in a big hurry. That scares off would be posters and potential sign-ups.

We need mOds some posters are really off the wall.

This was suppposed to be a discussion about signing up for an NS union, actually probably better called a General Forum Union, as the RP guys have all the mOd support they need, but it went into several other directions.

People should be free to sign up of not. If you don't agree with the concept perhaps you should take your OWN advice and just stay away from this thread, or read it only.
Well someones a little snippy. Did I not say I would have signed up? Ok the entire point of that reply was to get you to realize think of something else to actually progress. I would gladly be on a negiotation team. So I say dont eliminate what allies you do have on this thread. With all your fighting for this you have yet to add it to your signature.

This is an idea. How about forming a union? Let's discuss the options and stuff.

Dodge this, my original post asked for options on forming a union. I did'nt ask for ANTI union folks to come to my rally. That's a union busting tactic.

This thread is moving kinda fast for me to keep up with ALL of it.

*signs the forms*

Put "Member of NS Local 8976" in your sig...

Well someones a little snippy. Did I not say I would have signed up? Ok the entire point of that reply was to get you to realize think of something else to actually progress. I would gladly be on a negiotation team. So I say dont eliminate what allies you do have on this thread. With all your fighting for this you have yet to add it to your signature.

Sorry I was replying to someone else but did'nt quote it. This thread is moving really fast.

I had put it in my sig.

Dodge this, my original post asked for options on forming a union. I did'nt ask for ANTI union folks to come to my rally. That's a union busting tactic.

This thread is moving kinda fast for me to keep up with ALL of it.

See... that's funny. Since you'd think a union busting tactic would have to be organised by those in power; to wit, the mods. However, I've been far more vocal in my opposition than any of the mods and (gasp!) I'm actually not a mod myself, nor do I have anything to gain by supporting them.

Odd that. You'd almost think that you aren't speaking on behalf of every poster, but merely for a minority of like-minded peers.

Also; public board = anyone can post anywhere. If you didn't want anti-unionists, you should have stuck to good old tried-and-true cloak and dagger methods.

Sorry I was replying to someone else but did'nt quote it. This thread is moving really fast.

I had put it in my sig.
I see. I think...

I think it would be better just to have a negotiation team, to come up with proposals to present to the mods. Making demands and having strikes aren't effective in this context, and they have unfriendly overtones which make them less likely to be accepted my the mods.

See... that's funny. Since you'd think a union busting tactic would have to be organised by those in power; to wit, the mods. However, I've been far more vocal in my opposition than any of the mods and (gasp!) I'm actually not a mod myself, nor do I have anything to gain by supporting them.

Odd that. You'd almost think that you aren't speaking on behalf of every poster, but merely for a minority of like-minded peers.

Also; public board = anyone can post anywhere. If you didn't want anti-unionists, you should have stuck to good old tried-and-true cloak and dagger methods.


If I post spam in an RP thread what happens?

Dodge this, my original post asked for options on forming a union. I did'nt ask for ANTI union folks to come to my rally. That's a union busting tactic.

This thread is moving kinda fast for me to keep up with ALL of it.

This is idiocy. Nothing more. First of all, Jolt has an incredible amount of users: the departure of a few dozen--or even a hundred or so will make absolutely no difference to them.

NS is by far the largest forum on Jolt in the first place, which means you'd have to gather a ridiculous amount of support for this, which I would wager requires much more time and effort than you have to spend.

On an offsite board, Sheol compared this movement to a "consumers union" which is a misnomer, since consumers are generally defined as people that pay for goods and services. I don't see anyone here giving NS any money. In short, you only have the rights Max chooses to grant you, and as such a "strike" [or more accurately, a "boycott"] is sort of silly, since it implies that you derive some sort of necessity from these boards.

Also, when you get right down to it, I'm sure NS isn't one of Max's primary concerns in life. Typically, he leaves the site's operation to the admin/mod staff and probably spends most of his time.. you know... writing. Since it's sort of his livelihood. He has stated on a number of occassions that he never expected NS to get this far in the first place, which probably means he wouldn't be too crushed even if this 'Union' gathered enough steam to shut the site down.

The above post, while dissenting from your opinion, is quite obviously an opinion on the union issue, and thusly is much more on topic than many of the other posts that have been presented here. Furthermore, the prevelance of 'anti union' sentiment is not limited strictly to myself. This means that not everyone agrees with what you're saying, which is allowed in the context of this or any other thread. Only when it becomes counterproductive and/or spammy or flamey do we ask the dissenter to exit the thread. I have done none of this.

You, on the other hand, have hurled accusations of "flaming" in my face and have systematically ignored the points I've made in my defense. Neither of those are against the rules, but it doesn't make you look good.

If I post spam in an RP thread what happens?

It would get deleted for spam.

Criticism does not equate spam.

If I post spam in an RP thread what happens?

You'll note I DIDN'T say "anyone can post anything anywhere they want'.

I left out the word 'anything' for a very good reason.

If you post spam in an RP thread it would be deleted and if it continued you might be warned. Which is as it should be, considering the rules of the forum.

I think it would be better just to have a negotiation team, to come up with proposals to present to the mods. Making demands and having strikes aren't effective in this context, and they have unfriendly overtones which make them less likely to be accepted my the mods.

First we need to sign up members, alot of members. Then we hold a meeting and vote for the team, and give them a list of demands. We vote on all of this. We also hold a vote to give the team a strike MANDATE, with which they bargain. A final strike vote will also be held. As we receive the final offer we accept or reject it. We may be also asked to provide proof of our resolve. A 24 hour strke was just an option a longer strike might be more effective and other measures may be decided on. This is not MY union it's OURS. The discussion/negotiation with mOds occurs after all that.

First we need to sign up members, alot of members. Then we hold a meeting and vote for the team, and give them a list of demands. We vote on all of this. We also hold a vote to give the team a strike MANDATE, with which they bargain. A final strike vote will also be held. As we receive the final offer we accept or reject it. We may be also asked to provide proof of our resolve. A 24 hour strke was just an option a longer strike might be more effective and other measures may be decided on. This is not MY union it's OURS. The discussion/negotiation with mOds occurs after all that.
You see, a strike won't do anything, at least I don't think so. It just means that that mods have less posts to read and less work to do. It's a situation which will require different tactics, if you're going to try and push anything through.

This just gets funnier and funnier.

First we need to sign up members, alot of members. Then we hold a meeting and vote for the team, and give them a list of demands. We vote on all of this. We also hold a vote to give the team a strike MANDATE, with which they bargain. A final strike vote will also be held. As we receive the final offer we accept or reject it. We may be also asked to provide proof of our resolve. A 24 hour strke was just an option a longer strike might be more effective and other measures may be decided on. This is not MY union it's OURS. The discussion/negotiation with mOds occurs after all that.

The point is that a strike would be ineffective, unless we were to sign up a massive proportion of the forum members. The members would have to be dedicated enough to the union to be willing to strike even if they personally did not vote for a proposal.

All that a strike would do is annoy people, most likely. That's why I think it would be better just to present proposals to the mods, possibly with petitions. You stay on friendlier terms and cause yourself less inconvenience that way.

The above post, while dissenting from your opinion, is quite obviously an opinion on the union issue, and thusly is much more on topic than many of the other posts that have been presented here. Furthermore, the prevelance of 'anti union' sentiment is not limited strictly to myself. This means that not everyone agrees with what you're saying, which is allowed in the context of this or any other thread. Only when it becomes counterproductive and/or spammy or flamey do we ask the dissenter to exit the thread. I have done none of this.

You, on the other hand, have hurled accusations of "flaming" in my face and have systematically ignored the points I've made in my defense. Neither of those are against the rules, but it doesn't make you look good.

I want to sign up members. You cannot be a member of Local 8976 as you are a mOd. So your very presence here is union busting. Your comments prevent others from freely expressing opinions. Maybe flame was a bit strong in reference to YOUR comments, but Myrth's comments were stronger and carried undertones of his power over us.

Here we go again with the dictionary shit. Pardon for the brief entry, as there are many, many definaitions listed for "Strike." I cant be arsed to post them all.

Strike: v. tr.
>snip<
26. To undertake a strike against (an employer).

Do you work for NS?

Also, in response to

I want to sign up members. You cannot be a member of Local 8976 as you are a mOd. So your very presence here is union busting. Your comments prevent others from freely expressing opinions. Maybe flame was a bit strong in reference to YOUR comments, but Myrth's comments were stronger and carried undertones of his power over us.

How, pray tell, are my posts "prevent[ing] others from freely expressing opinions?"

I want to sign up members. You cannot be a member of Local 8976 as you are a mOd. So your very presence here is union busting. Your comments prevent others from freely expressing opinions.
Hmm?
It seems like everybody can still say whatever they want.

This just gets funnier and funnier.

Now you are standing on the line.

I want to sign up members. You cannot be a member of Local 8976 as you are a mOd. So your very presence here is union busting. Your comments prevent others from freely expressing opinions. Maybe flame was a bit strong in reference to YOUR comments, but Myrth's comments were stronger and carried undertones of his power over us.

I don't think irony/sarcasm = flaming. You might want to get that paranoia looked at, it doesn't sound healthy.

And oh good. I'm not a mod, so I can belittle your efforts as much as I like. How generous of you ^.^

Let us put it at this. STRIKES ARE OUT!

Now you are standing on the line.

Sorry bud, that's still not an ad hominem attack. It's an observation. Enormous difference.

I don't think irony/sarcasm = flaming. You might want to get that paranoia looked at, it doesn't sound healthy.

And oh good. I'm not a mod, so I can belittle your efforts as much as I like. How generous of you ^.^
"It is easy to belittle everything when one has no beliefs" Unknown NSer

Here we go again with the dictionary shit. Pardon for the brief entry, as there are many, many definaitions listed for "Strike." I cant be arsed to post them all.

Strike: v. tr.
>snip<
26. To undertake a strike against (an employer).

Do you work for NS?

Also, in response to



How, pray tell, are my posts "prevent[ing] others from freely expressing opinions?"

Notice that the sign-ups stopped when you mOds showed up? Notice as well that the discussion went from signing up to join a union to fear/discussion on the effectiveness of a strike? A strike has not been decided on. A strike may not be required.

"It is easy to belittle everything when one has no beliefs" Unknown NSer

Ooooh! I get it now! If my beliefs are in opposition to yours, they don't exist!

That must be incredibly handy.

Sorry bud, that's still not an ad hominem attack. It's an observation. Enormous difference.

An observation by one in authority.

Notice that the sign-ups stopped when you mOds showed up? Notice as well that the discussion went from signing up to join a union to fear/discussion on the effectiveness of a strike? A strike has not been decided on. A strike may not be required.

If you hadn't mentioned the strike in the first place, it wouldn't be being discussed. And have you considered other possibilities for the lack of sign-ups? Time-zone differences? Everyone else being indifferent to your little crusade?

There have been posts like this in the past, and the same small core of people signs up whether there's a mod presence or not.

Ooooh! I get it now! If my beliefs are in opposition to yours, they don't exist!

That must be incredibly handy.
No it is just you seem to handy in not holding up any particular point. Of all people say that too, I have to say you picked the wrong person. There is a reason why I dont post often. SO if you want to go into any form of debate let me know for I will gladly do so.

An observation by one in authority.
Which still isn't an ad hominem. Well done, you've proven nothing.

ALright then, I'll go ahead and split since it's pretty obvious to me that arguing with my blacklight would be a more worthwhile use of my time. I'll let this union thing take its course. I'm very interested to see what happens.

Notice that the sign-ups stopped when you mOds showed up?
Stopped?
Superpower07 signed up after.
Maybe it's just that there aren't very many people inclined to sign up?
And it's not really a "showed up" sort of thing. Everybody can see what everybody else is posting. The mods can be watching before they post in a thread...

Hey, here's a thought.

You call the user base "A Union" just to make you happy with the semantics.

The current Union rule book will be a definition of expected behaviour. We;ll give it an official sounding name... like, "Terms of Service." People applying to "join the union" will be required to read and agree with said union rules.

If you have a grievance, they put in place a formal policy on how to submit it, and how it will be handled. I dunno.... perhaps a new board called "Moderation" or something.

Then, if you are unhappy with the way your issue was addressed, you can go through an appeals process - perhaps an email to some guy named...ohhhh, how about "Max".

If still unhappy with the results of your grievance, you can quit the union.





There, that should just about do it.

Problem solved!


Nahhhhhh, what are the odds of us getting all that....

:rolleyes:

:D

I think I'll turn in for the night now.

Night night, everyone.

No it is just you seem to handy in not holding up any particular point. Of all people say that too, I have to say you picked the wrong person. There is a reason why I dont post often. SO if you want to go into any form of debate let me know for I will gladly do so.

Uh... huh. I'm not holding any particular point? As opposed to your delightfully pointasticular posts?

There are no points to be made, because this whole idea is worthless folly. I'm having far too much fun pointing out all the logical errors to be bothered debating.

If you want a debate, drop by the abortion threads once in a while. This topic isn't worthy of serious debate.

If you hadn't mentioned the strike in the first place, it wouldn't be being discussed. And have you considered other possibilities for the lack of sign-ups? Time-zone differences? Everyone else being indifferent to your little crusade?

There have been posts like this in the past, and the same small core of people signs up whether there's a mod presence or not.

This one may just be different. Give it time. There is a desire for some change. It's not life or death, it's not I'm gonna quit this site, it's just there. People want change. A little change. some say, some mOd attitude adjustment.
I think there are too few mOds, working too long and getting testy because of it.

Folks want a say. A union will give them a say.

Uh... huh. I'm not holding any particular point? As opposed to your delightfully pointasticular posts?

There are no points to be made, because this whole idea is worthless folly. I'm having far too much fun pointing out all the logical errors to be bothered debating.

If you want a debate, drop by the abortion threads once in a while. This topic isn't worthy of serious debate.
OK oficial getting the buddhist non-violent angry. If you think I cant support a point then you are sadly mistaken; and while I organly thought this may evovle to something, I now see this is a waste of my time. What point do you take on abortion. Maybe we wouldnt have to debate.

I think there are too few mOds, working too long and getting testy because of it.

.

You want more m0ds?

OK oficial getting the buddhist non-violent angry. If you think I cant support a point then you are sadly mistaken; and while I organly thought this may evovle to something, I now see this is a waste of my time. What point do you take on abortion. Maybe we wouldnt have to debate.

I don't think you can't support a point. I was pointing out (ahh, irony) that your post contained no more points than any of mine. Hence you were being hypocritical in claiming that I wasn't making any points, and that your implication that my opinion was worthless because of said 'lack of points' became a fairly double-edged sword.

And I agree. This thread is a waste of your time if you're into serious debating. For reference, I'm pro-choice, but that's really not relevent to this discussion (not blowing you off; just want to avoid any wildly offtopic tangents).

You want more m0ds?

as you can see, they're obviously a reformist union that will never achieve the true aims of the spamming class. essentially, they are spam traitors. join the IWWWW!

You want more m0ds?

Ooooh! dissent!

Now all we need is mystery and romance and we'll have the starts of a great novel.

Or possibly a salad of some sort.

as you can see, they're obviously a reformist union that will never achieve the true aims of the spamming class. essentially, they are spam traitors. join the IWWWW!
i think more m0ds would be a good thing

You want more m0ds?

I'm suggesting they mOd for only a limited time, they get tired. When they get tired they get testy.

I think we should have some say in how this place is run. I think that we are desired here and should be valued members. "Welcome to NS, how may I help you?" Some customer appreciation is in order.

I'm suggesting they mOd for only a limited time, they get tired. When they get tired they get testy.

I think we should have some say in how this place is run. I think that we are desired here and should be valued members. "Welcome to NS, how may I help you?" Some customer appreciation is in order.
Unfortunately you aren't a customer. Otherwise the mods might get paid, and have some reason to appreciate you.

Unfortunately you aren't a customer. Otherwise the mods might get paid, and have some reason to appreciate you.

You are taking my comments too literally. Think outside the box.

If this is about getting more m0ds then ii'm sold. i'll join

If this is about getting more m0ds then ii'm sold. i'll join

All demands will be voted on.

You are taking my comments too literally. Think outside the box.

So... imagine you're making sense instead of assuming you mean what you type?

Ok, I can probably manage that.

So... imagine you're making sense instead of assuming you mean what you type?

Ok, I can probably manage that.

Let me guess, seventeen and cheerleader?

All demands will be voted on.

i think we need more m0ds , its a pretty big site. too have like 14 people supervising 18,000 users isnt very good, thats like 1 m0d per 1300 users

Let me guess, seventeen and cheerleader?
Who, Shaed?
You're off by just a bit...
;)

i think we need more m0ds , its a pretty big site. too have like 14 people supervising 18,000 users isnt very good, thats like 1 m0d per 1300 users
I do support that, whether or not I support the idea of a union. It seems like the mods are stretched a bit thin at times. It might just be me, but that's how it looks.

Who, Shaed?
You're off by just a bit...
;)

less than a year? or not a cheerleader?

Let me guess, seventeen and cheerleader?

My goodness, you guessed my age correctly! Have a cookie.

Way off on the cheerleader thing though. Pretty much as far off as you could possibly be.

And that's not even taking into account the fact that my school is academically focused and doesn't *have* a cheerleading team.

I do support that, whether or not I support the idea of a union. It seems like the mods are stretched a bit thin at times. It might just be me, but that's how it looks.
if this union thingie supports the idea of having more m0ds then i 'm joining, i don't see why everyone is against us getting more m0ds, especially why are the m0ds are against us getting m0ds?

The fact that MONEY is not exchanged is not relevant. We are here to get exposed to advertisements. We are thus consumers.

Perhaps our concerns are best addressed with the Jolt folks?

My goodness, you guessed my age correctly! Have a cookie.

Way off on the cheerleader thing though. Pretty much as far off as you could possibly be.

And that's not even taking into account the fact that my school is academically focused and doesn't *have* a cheerleading team.

I'd say it was less guessing, more looking at this. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7964732&postcount=283)

Word Games' psyhic powers revealed :]

I'd say it was less guessing, more looking at this. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7964732&postcount=283)

Word Games' psyhic powers revealed :]

No this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/member.php?userid=204539)

No this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/member.php?userid=204539)

See Myrth? That's what you get for assuming things.

I knew he was psychic really.

Oh, wait...

See Myrth? That's what you get for assuming things.

I knew he was psychic really.

Oh, wait...

I thought Myrth was watching me.

Myrth, i have a serious question, why are the m0ds against us having more m0ds. i dont understand that.

Myrth, i have a serious question, why are the m0ds against us having more m0ds. i dont understand that.

We aren't. It's just that generally, the whole moderator team plus Max and [violet] need to agree on a candidate first, and that takes time. It's not like there are dozens of people who'd make good moderators.

We aren't. It's just that generally, the whole moderator team plus Max and [violet] need to agree on a candidate first, and that takes time. It's not like there are dozens of people who'd make good moderators.

Myrth, this is like a site with 18,000 users and more, you cant find at least 5 out of that number to become m0ds, i know a few people who would make great m0ds

Myrth, i have a serious question, why are the m0ds against us having more m0ds. i dont understand that.

The gene pool is near empty, all the "acceptable" mOds are already mOds.

We need a Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus.

The gene pool is near empty, all the "acceptable" mOds are already mOds.

We need a Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus.

you are not pushing me in front of the bus!

It's not like there are dozens of people who'd make good moderators.
Yeah, that is an issue, isn't it...
I hadn't thought of that.
Hmm, I can't think of anybody at first attempt.

you are not pushing me in front of the bus!

*Pushes*

Myrth, this is like a site with 18,000 users and more, you cant find at least 5 out of that number to become m0ds, i know a few people who would make great m0ds

Out of our 40,000+ how many post on the forum regularly? How many have a demonstrated good understanding of the rules and have a clean record? How many can we trust with the power and responsibility of being a moderator? How many can we trust not to give away mod/admin secrets?

Out of our 40,000+ how many post on the forum regularly? How many have a demonstrated good understanding of the rules and have a clean record? How many can we trust with the power and responsibility of being a moderator? How many can we trust not to give away mod/admin secrets?

tell you what i will make a list of people whom you just described, people who are understand the rules, are trustworthy and responsible if you want, there are a lot of good people here, don't you think?

No this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/member.php?userid=204539)

:D Check out the Jifox Regional Happenings. ROFL!

http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/03113/page=display_region/region=jifox

Out of our 40,000+ how many post on the forum regularly? How many have a demonstrated good understanding of the rules and have a clean record? How many can we trust with the power and responsibility of being a moderator? How many can we trust not to give away mod/admin secrets?

That is the real issue isn't it?

*Pushes*

quit pushing dammit I'm a 20-something white girl from the valley dammit, not an 80 year old southern black woman

:D Check out the Jifox Regional Happenings. ROFL!

http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/03113/page=display_region/region=jifox

'rofl' eh? Careful, you might injure yourself.

And yes, I admit - I am from the uncultured sub-class that has no interest whatsoever in RPing, or in the politics of NS.

I really only keep my nation around for the access it gives me to this forum.

quit pushing dammit I'm a 20-something white girl from the valley dammit, not an 80 year old southern black woman

I like to push. Your age, sex and colour are not relevant to my point. We need someone to rally the posters for change. We need a spark. Too much mOd power in the hands of too few LIKE minded people. They will only forever promote their OWN kind.

And yes, I admit - I am from the uncultured sub-class that has no interest whatsoever in RPing, or in the politics of NS.

I really only keep my nation around for the access it gives me to this forum.

Me too!

'rofl' eh? Careful, you might injure yourself.

And yes, I admit - I am from the uncultured sub-class that has no interest whatsoever in RPing, or in the politics of NS.

I really only keep my nation around for the access it gives me to this forum.

Hey neither do I, really. I just think it's funny that the minute you took off the password protection, some random invaded, so you changed it back. They then became delegate, so you barred their access, then changed the password. This random also came from " 000000000 A Place to Poke Smot." and left for "Gay" :D

I like to push. Your age, sex and colour are not relevant to my point. We need someone to rally the posters for change. We need a spark. Too much mOd power in the hands of too few LIKE minded people. They will only forever promote their OWN kind.
Really, I thought the mods were quick to point out that they consisted of people with very diverse opinions and ways of thinking? :confused:

Hey neither do I, really. I just think it's funny that the minute you took off the password protection, some random invaded, so you changed it back. They then became delegate, so you barred their access, then changed the password. This random also came from " 000000000 A Place to Poke Smot." and left for "Gay" :D

Oh, actually that was me being strange. Instead of giving out the password, I arranged with that person to come in at a set time and took off the password. And then I put it back again. So they never knew what my password was.

Hee, that actually is funny when you don't know the mundane details though.

Really, I thought the mods were quick to point out that they consisted of people with very diverse opinions and ways of thinking? :confused:

Maybe he means too many of the mods are interested in up-holding the rules, and too few are interested in giving in to his demands.

Really, I thought the mods were quick to point out that they consisted of people with very diverse opinions and ways of thinking? :confused:


Keep believing that..

Maybe he means too many of the mods are interested in up-holding the rules, and too few are interested in giving in to his demands.

Not my demands only. There are others wanting change. Keep it up you too can be a mOd and then you will have the pleasure of deleting me.

Oh, actually that was me being strange. Instead of giving out the password, I arranged with that person to come in at a set time and took off the password. And then I put it back again. So they never knew what my password was.

Hee, that actually is funny when you don't know the mundane details though.
:D Exactly, it looks very funny.

Not my demands only. There are others wanting change. Keep it up you too can be a mOd and then you will have the pleasure of deleting me.

I could never be a mod. Nor would I want to be. Especially after seeing the sort of bollocks they have to deal with. Lord, it's practically worse than customer service *and* there's no paycheck.

Way to mudsling, by the way.

Not my demands only. There are others wanting change. Keep it up you too can be a mOd and then you will have the pleasure of deleting me.

What changes do you want exactly? You've probably already said, but could you restate?

That is the real issue isn't it?

Yes it is. Considering a moderator would gain in-depth knowledge of everything from how our UN-multi detection software works to how we can ban users from the site.
We misjudge someone's character and make them a moderator, and they go loopy and start spouting all this, then what? You have to put up with spammers, griefers, UN-multiers and lord knows what else.

I could never be a mod. Nor would I want to be. Especially after seeing the sort of bollocks they have to deal with. Lord, it's practically worse than customer service *and* there's no paycheck.

Way to mudsling, by the way.

You've been prodding me all night.

I could never be a mod. Nor would I want to be. Especially after seeing the sort of bollocks they have to deal with. Lord, it's practically worse than customer service *and* there's no paycheck.

Way to mudsling, by the way.

Awww... but you'd get a cool avatar. :p
BTW, why can't we use avatars? Were they clogging the server?

You've been prodding me all night.

So? That's what you get when you post controversial topics. I don't agree with you, and I'm not afraid to make that clear. If all you wanted was people to nod and agree, you could have kept it to some uber-secret off-site forum where only those who agree with you would be allowed.

Because that would be a great standard to set.

And you should realise that by being hostile to me, you drive away potential followers. No one likes a leader who can't keep their cool.

Really, I thought the mods were quick to point out that they consisted of people with very diverse opinions and ways of thinking? :confused:

Apparently the fact that there are Conservatives, Liberals, Libertarians, Centrists, Socialists, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics, Americans, Europeans, New Zealanders etc. on the team means nothing.

Yes it is. Considering a moderator would gain in-depth knowledge of everything from how our UN-multi detection software works to how we can ban users from the site.
We misjudge someone's character and make them a moderator, and they go loopy and start spouting all this, then what? You have to put up with spammers, griefers, UN-multiers and lord knows what else.


So, why are these secrets so important? Are the techniques illegal?

Will the knowledge make the technique ineffective?

A good hacker could figure them out.

Yes it is. Considering a moderator would gain in-depth knowledge of everything from how our UN-multi detection software works to how we can ban users from the site.
We misjudge someone's character and make them a moderator, and they go loopy and start spouting all this, then what? You have to put up with spammers, griefers, UN-multiers and lord knows what else.

You'd have to scrap the whole thing and start over, I should think. Ample reason for a laborious selection process.

wait what Myrth is really saying is that out of 40000 users they can't find anyone who is responsible, obeys the rules and who is trustworthy and they cant find at least 12 non-a'holes out of 40000 people. He wrote off all 40000 people, thats all of us, as being a'holes. That is kind of insulting when you think about it, thats what they think about us

Awww... but you'd get a cool avatar. :p
BTW, why can't we use avatars? Were they clogging the server?

Yeah, but I'm subservient in nature, and if *I* were a mod, I wouldn't be able to look up to them in awe. Plus I'd periodically get sick of whining people and delete them. Well, not really. But I'd *want* to, and that's probably just as bad.

That avatar is pretty spiffy though...

wait what Myrth is really saying is that out of 40000 users they can't find anyone who is responsible, obeys the rules and who is trustworthy and they cant find at least 12 non-a'holes out of 40000 people. He wrote off all 40000 people, thats all of us, as being a'holes. That is kind of insulting when you think about it, thats what they think about us
No, he said that we couldn't be trusted as moderators. He said nothing like what you are implying.

wait what Myrth is really saying is that out of 40000 users they can't find anyone who is responsible, obeys the rules and who is trustworthy and they cant find at least 12 non-a'holes out of 40000 people. He wrote off all 40000 people, thats all of us, as being a'holes. That is kind of insulting when you think about it, thats what they think about us

Actually his point was that out of those 40000 people, only a very small section post regualarly AND know the rules AND are trustworthy AND have no previous offenses.

I for one don't see that as insulting at all.

Apparently the fact that there are Conservatives, Liberals, Libertarians, Centrists, Socialists, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics, Americans, Europeans, New Zealanders etc. on the team means nothing.
No Australians, or was that part of the 'cetera'?

So? That's what you get when you post controversial topics. I don't agree with you, and I'm not afraid to make that clear. If all you wanted was people to nod and agree, you could have kept it to some uber-secret off-site forum where only those who agree with you would be allowed.

Because that would be a great standard to set.

And you should realise that by being hostile to me, you drive away potential followers. No one likes a leader who can't keep their cool.

It's not that off the wall to ask for a say.

I have only responded to you after what 6 pages? I think I showed remarkable restraint.

I don't see myself as a leader, I brought an idea to the Forum and people talked about it.

No, he said that we couldn't be trusted as moderators. He said nothing like what you are implying.

So what you are saying is that only 14 out of 18000 forum users can obey the rules, can be responsible and are trustworthy?

wait what Myrth is really saying is that out of 40000 users they can't find anyone who is responsible, obeys the rules and who is trustworthy and they cant find at least 12 non-a'holes out of 40000 people. He wrote off all 40000 people, thats all of us, as being a'holes. That is kind of insulting when you think about it, thats what they think about us

Now you see why we need a union. To have a say.

So what you are saying is that only 14 out of 18000 forum users can obey the rules, can be responsible and are trustworthy?
I'm saying that out of the forum users, I haven't seen one that posts regularly, hasn't broken a rule, is levelheaded enough to pass judgement correctly, and meet whatever other characteristics are needed.

It's not that off the wall to ask for a say.

I have only responded to you after what 6 pages? I think I showed remarkable restraint.

I don't see myself as a leader, I brought an idea to the Forum and people talked about it.

You haven't asked.

You've demanded

And that attitude defeats your whole argument, and makes you look petty and childish. If you'd talked about *asking*, this thread would probably have many more people in it on your side.

And you responded nonetheless. And I suspect you *wanted* to long before page 6. Obviously you can't handle any sort of dissent and have to resort to below-the-belt stabs.

I'm saying that out of the forum users, I haven't seen one that posts regularly, hasn't broken a rule, is levelheaded enough to pass judgement correctly, and meet whatever other characteristics are needed.


Keep a secret, a big one by the sound of it.

Now you see why we need a union. To have a say.

What have we done to deserve a say? Serious question.

You haven't asked.

You've demanded

And that attitude defeats your whole argument, and makes you look petty and childish. If you'd talked about *asking*, this thread would probably have many more people in it on your side.

And you responded nonetheless. And I suspect you *wanted* to long before page 6. Obviously you can't handle any sort of dissent and have to resort to below-the-belt stabs.

Unions are born from frustration. Unions make demands. It's life.

What have we done to deserve a say? Serious question.


We post here.

We post here.
We post here of our own choice, though. We could post somewhere else if we didn't like here.

We post here.
....

So?

I'm saying that out of the forum users, I haven't seen one that posts regularly, hasn't broken a rule, is levelheaded enough to pass judgement correctly, and meet whatever other characteristics are needed.

What about Zooke (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8005974&postcount=12) ? Are you saying Zooke isn't levelheaded? Can't be trusted? Is irresponsible?

What about http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8005974&postcount=12 (Zooke) ? Are you saying Zooke isn't levelheaded? Can't be trusted? Is irresponsible?
Hmm. I actually hadn't seen Zooke post on any issues such as this.
From what I see in the Moderation forum, it seems Zooke may be those things.
I guess I'll have to concede my point and say that there may be some people that fit.

....

So?

The site started as advertising for Max, it now serves Jolts advertisers.
We see these ads when we post here. We are here for a purpose. It is not free. We pay fo rthe site by allowing the space on our screens. It's all about the money, the traffic, the ads.

Hmm. I actually hadn't seen Zooke post on any issues such as this.
From what I see in the Moderation forum, it seems Zooke may be those things.
I guess I'll have to concede my point and say that there may be some people that fit.

I can make a long list of good people here and I dont agree with them all on matter of relgion or politics but I know they are good people

The site started as advertising for Max, it now serves Jolts advertisers.
We see these ads when we post here. We are here for a purpose. It is not free. We pay fo rthe site by allowing the space on our screens. It's all about the money, the traffic, the ads.

Do you pay any money? Do you come here specifically to see those ads? Do you have the option of NOT having those ads on your screen?

If you make the choice to stay, you lose the right to complain that you see ads.

The fact that NS was originally intended as advertising goes against your goal, since advertsments give no rights to the 'consumers' of said ads.

Hmm. I actually hadn't seen Zooke post on any issues such as this.
From what I see in the Moderation forum, it seems Zooke may be those things.
I guess I'll have to concede my point and say that there may be some people that fit.

If you look around there is a bunch. The criteria might be too strict. How can a mOd notice a poster who does not stand out? The ones that stand out bend (or break) the rules. And so what, the rules don't apply anymore since Jolt fixed the problems that caused the rules to be created with the old server.

A good hacker could figure them out.

And your average trouble-maker isn't a good hacker.

How can a mOd notice a poster who does not stand out? The ones that stand out bend (or break) the rules. And so what, the rules don't apply anymore since Jolt fixed the problems that caused the rules to be created with the old server.

Oh I don't know, maybe if you actually read the sticky in Moderation you'd see that one way of getting noticed is to be helpful in Technical and Moderation. You know, show a good understanding of the rules and all that.
But apparently this means nothing to you because of course, as well all know, a good moderator is one who only listens to you, right?
::insert mega eye-rolling smiley here::

Do you pay any money? Do you come here specifically to see those ads? Do you have the option of NOT having those ads on your screen.

If you make the choice to stay, you lose the right to complain that you see ads.

The fact that NS was originally intended as advertising goes against your goal, since advertsments give no rights to the 'consumers' of said ads.

In answer: No, No, and No.

I never complained about the ads, I know why they are there, I pay to be here be subjecting myself to the ads. Some might consider the ads SPAM!

How does the original purpose of NS go against my goal, and what do you see as my goal?

as you can see, they're obviously a reformist union that will never achieve the true aims of the spamming class. essentially, they are spam traitors. join the IWWWW!

I think you hit the nail on the head there with the reformist line: this is made no more clear than when they ask for what are essentially more cops, yet also equate this with having more freedom. As you say, the WWWobblies wouldn't put up with this kind of tomfoolery: now, the hypothetical IWWWW wouldn't just want a bigger slice of the cake, they would want the whole fucking bakery and turn it over to wwworkers control.

And your average trouble-maker isn't a good hacker.

If that is a shot at me, then no I'm not a good hacker.

Some of the best hackers did in fact cause alot of trouble. That is the point of hacking is it not?

If that is a shot at me, then no I'm not a good hacker.

Some of the best hackers did in fact cause alot of trouble. That is the point of hacking is it not?

NationStates has never been hacked.

Oh I don't know, maybe if you actually read the sticky in Moderation you'd see that one way of getting noticed is to be helpful in Technical and Moderation. You know, show a good understanding of the rules and all that.
But apparently this means nothing to you because of course, as well all know, a good moderator is one who only listens to you, right?
::insert mega eye-rolling smiley here::
But most of the levelheaded people only go to the Moderation forum rarely, because its like the Jerry Springer Show in there. It either full crazy people whining about this or that thing, or people who are only friendly to the mods because they want something. Most of the levelheaded people do what most well-adjusted folks like doing - they socialize, they make friends.

If I may take a moment and cut through all the banter, I'd like to give my US$0.02 on this entire union concept.

I completely support your union and its concept of striking. Set yourself that goal, and go for it! After all, you can do no worse than to fail. By going ahead with this union idea, you certainly can't make anything get any worse. So good luck in your efforts, guys!

And because I support this, I'll sticky the thread for extra visibility!

http://rpstudios.ian-justman.com/junk/CGgoods/Modsig2.JPG
~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~Master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

Oh I don't know, maybe if you actually read the sticky in Moderation you'd see that one way of getting noticed is to be helpful in Technical and Moderation. You know, show a good understanding of the rules and all that.
But apparently this means nothing to you because of course, as well all know, a good moderator is one who only listens to you, right?
::insert mega eye-rolling smiley here::

I read that sticky long ago. I know what you say makes a good mOd.

Have I ever posted anything remotely like " A good mOd = _____, ___ and ___"?

How come you get to bait me, wait, you make up the rules!

This is why we need a union.

If that is a shot at me, then no I'm not a good hacker.

Some of the best hackers did in fact cause alot of trouble. That is the point of hacking is it not?

No, it's not. I believe what you are referring to is a cracker.

Now you see why we need a union. To have a say.

Why do we need a say? - we're on private property here of our own free will, without squatters rights. In essence we are house guests of Max Barry.

Why do we need a say? - we're on private property here of our own free will, without squatters rights. In essence we are house guests of Max Barry.

You get cookies. Many, many cookies.

Pity your point won't last long before its perfection is sullied by lack of comprehension.

:(

I want to have a say. will I have a say ?

Sign up by placing "Member of NS Local 8976" in your sig

Eventually we will have membership meetings and vote on negotiators, demands and tactics.

Sign up by placing "Member of NS Local 8976" in your sig
.Ill sign If you promise to respect my say.

I wonder if I'll get some of this mythical 'say' if I sign up.

Ill sign If you promise to respect my say.

All members get a vote on the negotiators, the issues to bring forward, and the tactics employed.

What's in it for me?

I wonder if I'll get some of this mythical 'say' if I sign up.

Perhaps you should, just to make sure they don't demand anything too outrageous. :p

I wonder if I'll get some of this mythical 'say' if I sign up.
I wonder if it tastes good on bread?

what the hell, i might as well join up

It really is highly amusing that people think that amongst the tens of thousands of unique visitors this forum gets a day, their leaving the forum will have some impact. For every one of them that leaves, there'll be new users signing up each day. Rather a lost cause, but I suppose if you're really willing to give us a nice holiday, go for it!

What's in it for me?


A union is what you make it. It can be radical, or moderate, depending on the votes of the majority.

You? You could be an organizer. Later a steward. Stewards bring grievances forward. Like a lawyer.

All members get a vote on the negotiators, the issues to bring forward, and the tactics employed.hmm okay but if they vote something i dont like ill make my own UNION...and take the dissenters with me.

signs xoxox.

__________________
************
Member of NS Local 1969

************

You? You could be an organizer. Later a steward. Stewards bring grievances forward. Like a lawyer.
Me? An organizer? You say that like I've dabbled in the past...

what the hell, i might as well join up

Aren't the ideologies of Nazism & the labour movement somewhat hideously incompatible?

It really is highly amusing that people think that amongst the tens of thousands of unique visitors this forum gets a day, their leaving the forum will have some impact. For every one of them that leaves, there'll be new users signing up each day. Rather a lost cause, but I suppose if you're really willing to give us a nice holiday, go for it!

As I am too lazy to read this entire thread, I demand to know what this post is in reference to.

Me? An organizer? You say that like I've dabbled in the past...

I recall something, its fuzzy, that was ages ago.. :)

As I am too lazy to read this entire thread, I demand to know what this post is in reference to.

We are attempting to form a union.

WordGames, what font is that?
************
Member of NS Local 1969

************