NationStates Jolt Archive

Now, you may call me a 13 year old male religious conservative nutjob, but I'm going to tell you this news:

In the Bronx, a 13 year old girl was impregnated by her 15 year old boyfriend. She then hid her pregnancy with coats. When she went into labor, her mother was asleep, so she had the baby and threw it out the window of her apartment and into the alley and killed it. The father was pissed off at him, but, being a loser, he put the body of the baby into a birthday bag and left it in front of a church. It was found and the girl is now under arrest for murder(and that she should be).



Now that you have read it, read it again. This is today's society, people. Here, if you still don't get i, let me do a little skit for you:
-Morals loses his best friend-
Characters:
Society
Morals

Morals: Hey Society, what's up?

Society: Look Morals, I know we have been best friends, but I've met new friends. Their names are Hollywood, Teen Sexuality, and Abortion just to name a few. They told me I shouldn't hang out with you anymore.

Morals: But, those guys will lead you down the wrong path!

Society: No they won't, you will.

Morals(sighing): Fine....but...you'll see....oh,you'll see.

-End-


Well, Society still hasn't seen it yet, and its been getting worse. Before the 60s, girls wore long skirts, sleeved shirts, and underwear that tried to cover their private areas. Now, they wear: short shorts, thongs, midriffs, tank tops, and uggh...it just makes me sick. You can call me a 13 year old religious zealot, but I stand where I am: We have lost our ways.

Now, you may call me a 13 year old male religious conservative nutjob, but I'm going to tell you this news:

In the Bronx, a 13 year old girl was impregnated by her 15 year old boyfriend. She then hid her pregnancy with coats. When she went into labor, her mother was asleep, so she had the baby and threw it out the window of her apartment and into the alley and killed it. The father was pissed off at him, but, being a loser, he put the body of the baby into a birthday bag and left it in front of a church. It was found and the girl is now under arrest for murder(and that she should be).



Now that you have read it, read it again. This is today's society, people. Here, if you still don't get i, let me do a little skit for you:
-Morals loses his best friend-
Characters:
Society
Morals

Morals: Hey Society, what's up?

Society: Look Morals, I know we have been best friends, but I've met new friends. Their names are Hollywood, Teen Sexuality, and Abortion just to name a few. They told me I shouldn't hang out with you anymore.

Morals: But, those guys will lead you down the wrong path!

Society: No they won't, you will.

Morals(sighing): Fine....but...you'll see....oh,you'll see.

-End-


Well, Society still hasn't seen it yet, and its been getting worse. Before the 60s, girls wore long skirts, sleeved shirts, and underwear that tried to cover their private areas. Now, they wear: short shorts, thongs, midriffs, tank tops, and uggh...it just makes me sick. You can call me a 13 year old religious zealot, but I stand where I am: We have lost our ways.
If she'd gone ahead and gotten an abortion early on no infant would have been killed and she'd be a free girl today.

here it comes:

you are a 13 year old male religious conservative nutjob

I don't really get your point. IMO, the problem is somewhere else:
1) the girl getting pregnant (stupid), what nowadays is certainly not a necessary outcome of having had sex
2) the girl hiding her pregnancy - what she certainly would not have done if her parents were minimally open to conversation about sex
3) the girl hiding labour (hmn, I am a mother myself and this seems incredibly unlikely. Are you sure this is real news?)
4) the girl throwing the baby out of the window (what a wonderful solution to her problem, get it out of sight)
5) the father (who apparently had disappeared throughout the whole pregnancy as he, as her family, paid so much attention to her they did not notice) taking the dead baby to the church (what for?)


...what about stop talking about how horrible sex is and start accepting it as part of life? Apparently, it could have saved the life of a baby (and the future of a 13 years old stupid girl, if that is worth anything)

If she'd gone ahead and gotten an abortion early on no infant would have been killed and she'd be a free girl today.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :headbang: See? See? You don't get it! You just don't get it! No one these days takes responsibility for their immoral actions! You have sex, you bear the child, and you give it up for adoption! Do that! Getting abortion is killing an infant too damnit! God! I'm tired of you freaking liberals and how you don't care about life! You care only about your freaking ass "rights". Yeah, well, how about I shove the roe vs. wade ruling up your freaking ass!

Wow, she managed to hide the pregnancy with coats, im sad she ended up in prison, she almost screwed the system, its a shame she got caught.

How can you be so disillusionned with society at age thirteen?

Well, Society still hasn't seen it yet, and its been getting worse. Before the 60s, girls wore long skirts, sleeved shirts, and underwear that tried to cover their private areas. Now, they wear: short shorts, thongs, midriffs, tank tops, and uggh...it just makes me sick. You can call me a 13 year old religious zealot, but I stand where I am: We have lost our ways.

Yep, those tank tops really make me want to go out and have sex with a 13 year old.

You really don't think that this didn't happen back in 'the good 'ol days'?

I don't really get your point. IMO, the problem is somewhere else:
1) the girl getting pregnant (stupid), what nowadays is certainly not a necessary outcome of having had sex
2) the girl hiding her pregnancy - what she certainly would not have done if her parents were minimally open to conversation about sex
3) the girl hiding labour (hmn, I am a mother myself and this seems incredibly unlikely. Are you sure this is real news?)
4) the girl throwing the baby out of the window (what a wonderful solution to her problem, get it out of sight)
5) the father (who apparently had disappeared throughout the whole pregnancy as he, as her family, paid so much attention to her they did not notice) taking the dead baby to the church (what for?)


...what about stop talking about how horrible sex is and start accepting it as part of life? Apparently, it could have saved the life of a baby (and the future of a 13 years old stupid girl, if that is worth anything)
I agree with you. But let me tell you this is real news I am honest to God here. She actually did those things. Remember they are 13 and 15, I wouldn't think they would do the right thing.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :headbang: See? See? You don't get it! You just don't get it! No one these days takes responsibility for their immoral actions! You have sex, you bear the child, and you give it up for adoption! Do that! Getting abortion is killing an infant too damnit! God! I'm tired of you freaking liberals and how you don't care about life! You care only about your freaking ass "rights". Yeah, well, how about I shove the roe vs. wade ruling up your freaking ass!
wow are you mature for a 13 year old

How can you be so disillusionned with society at age thirteen?

EAsy, he never had sex to know how good it is to be alive!

See? See? You don't get it! You just don't get it! No one these days takes responsibility for their immoral actions! You have sex, you bear the child, and you give it up for adoption! Do that! Getting abortion is killing an infant too damnit! God! I'm tired of you freaking liberals and how you don't care about life! You care only about your freaking ass "rights". Yeah, well, how about I shove the roe vs. wade ruling up your freaking ass!

Calm down kid. He didn't run over your dog.

How would a 13 year old be able to hide that she was pregnant? Coats? She's gonna be getting one huge belly though. Just think how huge a woman gets when 9 months pregnant, it'll look even more exagerated on a teenage girl.

But yeah, throwing the baby out of the window? o.O

How can you be so disillusionned with society at age thirteen?
I'm not disillusioned with society! Society is disillusioned! I know what society is today! Today's f-words are not cusses, no, they are "personal responsibility"!

No one these days takes responsibility for their immoral actions! You have sex, you bear the child, and you give it up for adoption!

Adoption? Do you know how many children remain in orphanages without being adopted at all?
Try condoms instead - they help preventing STDs as well

:mad: :mad: :mad: :headbang: See? See? You don't get it! You just don't get it! No one these days takes responsibility for their immoral actions! You have sex, you bear the child, and you give it up for adoption! Do that! Getting abortion is killing an infant too damnit! God! I'm tired of you freaking liberals and how you don't care about life! You care only about your freaking ass "rights". Yeah, well, how about I shove the roe vs. wade ruling up your freaking ass!
It's not an infant if it hasn't developed a functioning brain yet.

EAsy, he never had sex to know how good it is to be alive!
I don't want to have sex until I get married! I want to be a good person! I don't want to have sex yet! I'd rather eat dog shit, literally, then give up my virginity before marriage.

People, how the girl hid the baby really wouldn't have worked on most people, except remember, the mother is a very bad parent(Lazy, stupid, doesn't care)

I don't want to have sex until I get married! I want to be a good person! I don't want to have sex yet! I'd rather eat dog shit, literally, then give up my virginity before marriage.

Will you accept human shit instead?

I don't want to have sex until I get married! I want to be a good person! I don't want to have sex yet! I'd rather eat dog shit, literally, then give up my virginity before marriage.

Fine, I respect your choice. I just wished you would have the same respect for those who choose to do otherwise - we are not all baby-killers (as I said, I am a mother myself)

You people don't get it! Maybe the baby isn't an infant physically yet inside the mother's womb, but the baby has a soul! Let me say it again: The...Baby...Has...A...Soul!

I'm not disillusioned with society! Society is disillusioned! I know what society is today! Today's f-words are not cusses, no, they are "personal responsibility"!

No, you're disillusioned with society.

You people don't get it! Maybe the baby isn't an infant physically yet inside the mother's womb, but the baby has a soul! Let me say it again: The...Baby...Has...A...Soul!

Prove it. Prove that "the soul" exists.

You people don't get it! Maybe the baby isn't an infant physically yet inside the mother's womb, but the baby has a soul! Let me say it again: The...Baby...Has...A...Soul!
What's a soul?

:mad: :mad: :mad: :headbang: See? See? You don't get it! You just don't get it! No one these days takes responsibility for their immoral actions! You have sex, you bear the child, and you give it up for adoption! Do that! Getting abortion is killing an infant too damnit! God! I'm tired of you freaking liberals and how you don't care about life! You care only about your freaking ass "rights". Yeah, well, how about I shove the roe vs. wade ruling up your freaking ass!
I agree. I VERY STRONGLY agree.

This whole story is an urban legend, not news. It comes up in various places at various times, is cited by, yes, conservative religious nutjobs as an example of awful our society has become, but has never actually been substantiated. Like the totally imaginary 'welfare queens' that Reagan used to seethe about.
You guys just keep making this stuff up. You lie and you lie, and try to force oppressive policies based on those lies down our throats, and dare to call us 'immoral.'
You're right. I'm sickened.

You people don't get it! Maybe the baby isn't an infant physically yet inside the mother's womb, but the baby has a soul! Let me say it again: The...Baby...Has...A...Soul!
I agree here as well.

You people don't get it! Maybe the baby isn't an infant physically yet inside the mother's womb, but the baby has a soul! Let me say it again: The...Baby...Has...A...Soul!

And at which point exactly does a foetus gain a soul?

Stop shouting! It hurts my eyes!
(Don't you religious fanatics know how to behave in public?)

And at which point exactly does a foetus gain a soul?
Will someone please define "soul" for me?

i got TWO words to say about this story....fu^ked up....

i'm not exactly sure what to say, but i agree with the people against holy paradise (or whatever it is), and how can you say it has a soul? how do you know that? :confused:

Will someone please define "soul" for me?

Indeed. I was humouring him.

Now, you may call me a 13 year old male religious conservative nutjob, but I'm going to tell you this news:

In the Bronx, a 13 year old girl was impregnated by her 15 year old boyfriend. She then hid her pregnancy with coats. When she went into labor, her mother was asleep, so she had the baby and threw it out the window of her apartment and into the alley and killed it. The father was pissed off at him, but, being a loser, he put the body of the baby into a birthday bag and left it in front of a church. It was found and the girl is now under arrest for murder(and that she should be).



Now that you have read it, read it again. This is today's society, people. Here, if you still don't get i, let me do a little skit for you:
-Morals loses his best friend-
Characters:
Society
Morals

Morals: Hey Society, what's up?

Society: Look Morals, I know we have been best friends, but I've met new friends. Their names are Hollywood, Teen Sexuality, and Abortion just to name a few. They told me I shouldn't hang out with you anymore.

Morals: But, those guys will lead you down the wrong path!

Society: No they won't, you will.

Morals(sighing): Fine....but...you'll see....oh,you'll see.

-End-


Well, Society still hasn't seen it yet, and its been getting worse. Before the 60s, girls wore long skirts, sleeved shirts, and underwear that tried to cover their private areas. Now, they wear: short shorts, thongs, midriffs, tank tops, and uggh...it just makes me sick. You can call me a 13 year old religious zealot, but I stand where I am: We have lost our ways.


Or... 3 charachters - Strict Christian Morals (hereafter "Morals"), Western Society, and Civil Liberties!

*Morality has society at gunpoint. Parts of society that would prefer a different moral system or a different life style are eliminated.

W Society - Won't somebody help me! The Christian religion has had me by the balls for centuries! It's forced me to do terrible things like burning "witches", launching crusades, repressing Jews, homosexuals, Arabs, Blacks, Muslims, Buddhists, the sexually liberated... oh the list goes on! Won't someone help me!

Morals - Hey buddy, be quiet! This is what God wants!

W Society - But... how do you know what God wants?

Morals - Well, this guy spoke to god... and was god, and was killed... and stuff...

W Society - What about other religions? What about other people with other ideas? How do you know your God is the right one? In fact, how do you know there's a god at all?

Morals - Hey... shut up! You don't know anything! I think I need to repress a little more of you're science and liberalism!

*all of the sudden!

Civil Liberties - Unhand society, Christian Morals! Some very smart people like Locke, Franklin, Rousseau, and others created me from a wonderful idea! People have the right to be different! You don't have the right to shove Christianity down people's throats!

Morals - NOOOOOOOO! Not Reason and Enlightenment! My only weaknesses! I'll be back, Civil Liberties, Western Society! I'll be back! Just watch for the Neo-Conservative Religious Right!

EDIT - Oh, the baby thing is just wrong. My skit is in response to the rest of your post.

Fine, I respect your choice. I just wished you would have the same respect for those who choose to do otherwise - we are not all baby-killers (as I said, I am a mother myself)
Sorry. I do have respect. I have respect for you for carrying the child. But I hate it how morals have been lost in society. I respect people's opinions. But I'm just tired of it! It makes me cry! Seriously! I think of how Jesus right now is looking down on Earth and thinking, "This is what I died for? I died...only to be forgotten for the reason why? I still know I did the right thing....but...everyday now I receive back into heaven the children I had great plans for. I gave these children...great gifts...the children are gifts within themselves, and its just getting thrown back at me." That's why I am angry, because of what society has became.

No one these days takes responsibility for their immoral actions! You have sex, you bear the child, and you give it up for adoption!
Listen. As soon as you shit a bowling ball, you have the right to talk. Until then, you have no fucking right to tell a women to go through a living hell.

Getting abortion is killing an infant too damnit!
To paraphrase Carlin, "It has to be born to be an infant."

God!
Yes?

I'm tired of you freaking liberals and how you don't care about life!
Yeah! Dooming a girl and her child to a tormented existance is caring about life!

You care only about your freaking ass "rights".
Yeah! Let's take away all of our rights, all be crushed under the heel of oppression! Ave Caesar!

Yeah, well, how about I shove the roe vs. wade ruling up your freaking ass!
Listen up bitch, you're the one who complains about profanity and sex, yet is perfectly fine with gratituous violence. What the fuck is with your priorities?!


Note: Excessive profanity used because he said he didn't like it.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :headbang: See? See? You don't get it! You just don't get it! No one these days takes responsibility for their immoral actions! You have sex, you bear the child, and you give it up for adoption! Do that! Getting abortion is killing an infant too damnit! God! I'm tired of you freaking liberals and how you don't care about life! You care only about your freaking ass "rights". Yeah, well, how about I shove the roe vs. wade ruling up your freaking ass!

Getting an abortion is not killing an infant. You might want to get a medical dictionary.

Prove it. Prove that "the soul" exists.

Prove it doesnt. Because we can't be certian when the soul (If it exists at all) exists or when a conception becomes a life instead of a cluster of cells, aboriton is frankly an issue of risk taking. Because we dont know, we cant make that kind of decison.

Will someone please define "soul" for me?

A construct invented by religion to convince people if they do what they're told on earth the soul will go to heaven when the body is all rotted away.

Most religions take it further, but it's just a way to get people to do what you want.

Prove it doesnt. Because we can't be certian when the soul (If it exists at all) exists or when a conception becomes a life instead of a cluster of cells, aboriton is frankly an issue of risk taking. Because we dont know, we cant make that kind of decison.

I didn't say a baby doesn't have a soul. He made the definitive statement; he has to back it up with proof.

You people don't get it! Maybe the baby isn't an infant physically yet inside the mother's womb, but the baby has a soul! Let me say it again: The...Baby...Has...A...Soul!

so then the baby has a soul... great... it will go back to heaven... awwwwwwwwwww - no worries for the baby cuz its soul can be happy and with God YAY

Or... 3 charachters - Strict Christian Morals (hereafter "Morals"), Western Society, and Civil Liberties!

*Morality has society at gunpoint. Parts of society that would prefer a different moral system or a different life style are eliminated.

W Society - Won't somebody help me! The Christian religion has had me by the balls for centuries! It's forced me to do terrible things like burning "witches", launching crusades, repressing Jews, homosexuals, Arabs, Blacks, Muslims, Buddhists, the sexually liberated... oh the list goes on! Won't someone help me!

Morals - Hey buddy, be quiet! This is what God wants!

W Society - But... how do you know what God wants?

Morals - Well, this guy spoke to god... and was god, and was killed... and stuff...

W Society - What about other religions? What about other people with other ideas? How do you know your God is the right one? In fact, how do you know there's a god at all?

Morals - Hey... shut up! You don't know anything! I think I need to repress a little more of you're science and liberalism!

*all of the sudden!

Civil Liberties - Unhand society, Christian Morals! Some very smart people like Locke, Franklin, Rousseau, and others created me from a wonderful idea! People have the right to be different! You don't have the right to shove Christianity down people's throats!

Morals - NOOOOOOOO! Not Reason and Enlightenment! My only weaknesses! I'll be back, Civil Liberties, Western Society! I'll be back! Just watch for the Neo-Conservative Religious Right!
What is so bad about religion? Why are you bashing morals? All religions really have the same morals. I believe in reason and enlightenment. I believe that science is important too. I believe that civil liberties are good. I believe in such. But when they become more important then my most rock-solid and founded beliefs? No...not that. I am not going to stand for such.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :headbang: See? See? You don't get it! You just don't get it! No one these days takes responsibility for their immoral actions! You have sex, you bear the child, and you give it up for adoption! Do that! Getting abortion is killing an infant too damnit! God! I'm tired of you freaking liberals and how you don't care about life! You care only about your freaking ass "rights". Yeah, well, how about I shove the roe vs. wade ruling up your freaking ass!

I'm a liberal, but I tend to agree with you. I don't see abortion as wrong or evil, just as a make-shift solution to the larger problem of a lack of morality in society. I know there are many cases where abortion is not immoral, abortion was not the proper solution to this yound girl's problems. No 13 year old girl should ever get pregnant. Her parents should have talked to her about sex before she got pregnant, they should have reinforced good behavior and punished bad behaviour (like parents used to do). Clearly the parents failed here. Same with the parents of the "father". What was a 15 year old doing fucking a 13 year old? His parents should have taught him a thing or to about responsibility. What society seems to be today doesn't make me feel good.


PS, whats the Roe vs Wade thing?

Prove it doesnt. Because we can't be certian when the soul (If it exists at all) exists or when a conception becomes a life instead of a cluster of cells, aboriton is frankly an issue of risk taking. Because we dont know, we cant make that kind of decison.
Before one can even attempt to prove whether a soul exists one must first define it. WHAT THE FUCK IS A SOUL??????

I don't suppose there's any sort of source that can be put up for this story?

so then the baby has a soul... great... it will go back to heaven... awwwwwwwwwww - no worries for the baby cuz its soul can be happy and with God YAY
Yes, its good that the baby goes to heaven. But do you know what happens to people who kill anything with a soul? Yes, that's right.......

They go to Hell.

I do not get you right-wing nutjobs? You go around starting wars that gets tens and hundreds of thousands of people killed, destroys families and whole functioning societies, yet you freak out at the liberals who would even dare suggest planned parenthood (the use of condoms, ect.)

Do not also play the religious card. I am also a devout Christian while at the same time being an extreme liberal. If you care about God's creations, lets start taking care of the earth or respect other peoples' rights. Jesus preached about taking care of the poor and the desitute, yet you (the religious conservatives) attack the welfare system and the people on it, many of whom are stuck in dead-end jobs and can not afford to live to the standards of the middle-class. How about you start following God's words, and love your neighbor as you would love yourself.
:cool:

Prove it doesnt. Because we can't be certian when the soul (If it exists at all) exists or when a conception becomes a life instead of a cluster of cells, aboriton is frankly an issue of risk taking. Because we dont know, we cant make that kind of decison.

That is my least favorite debate tactic.

Him: Prove it.

You: Shit... Um, YOU prove your arguement!

Yes, its good that the baby goes to heaven. But do you know what happens to people who kill anything with a soul? Yes, that's right.......

They go to Hell.

BIG LETTERS DON'T HELP PROVE YOUR POINT ANY BETTER THAN NORMAL SIZED LETTERS.

Prove it doesnt. Because we can't be certian when the soul (If it exists at all) exists or when a conception becomes a life instead of a cluster of cells, aboriton is frankly an issue of risk taking. Because we dont know, we cant make that kind of decison.

Because we can't be certain that the Earth isn't in fact a giant mystical pigmy who is offendeded by the rampant misspelling of the word "certain", you shouldn't be taking the risk of posting.

I mean... really... "what if" games?

I think you're find that most people are reasonable, and will discuss the issue, and come to some sort of fairly sensible limit such as abortion should be illegal after X months. You can't just stick your "what if"s on the table and expect to argue with that, because... "what if not"?

Do sperm have a soul? Stop that.

Well, Society still hasn't seen it yet, and its been getting worse. Before the 60s, girls wore long skirts, sleeved shirts, and underwear that tried to cover their private areas. Now, they wear: short shorts, thongs, midriffs, tank tops, and uggh...it just makes me sick. You can call me a 13 year old religious zealot, but I stand where I am: We have lost our ways.

I'll bet your gay.

And by the way, that was the dumbest skit I have read today, and I feel less intelligent for having read it.

Yes, its good that the baby goes to heaven. But do you know what happens to people who kill anything with a soul? Yes, that's right.......

They go to Hell.
You still haven't defined soul. I must assume it's just a word some religious folks made up so they could deny safe medical proceedures to women.

A construct invented by religion to convince people if they do what they're told on earth the soul will go to heaven when the body is all rotted away.


I am not sure... I think it is more likely that it serves to keep us (better to say 'them') minimally sane with the fact that the only certainty that one has in life is that it will culminate in death.

Yes, its good that the baby goes to heaven. But do you know what happens to people who kill anything with a soul? Yes, that's right.......

They go to Hell.

so then you shoudl be happy that they are getting what is comign to them. Since Gawd is taking care of people who dont follow Gawds laws then you can sit back and be happy that people are being punished eternally for not following what you believe in. what a releif eh?

Yes, its good that the baby goes to heaven. But do you know what happens to people who kill anything with a soul? Yes, that's right.......

They go to Hell.

Proof plz

I find the whole stink on abortion ridiculous anyway. Something without conciousness of existence, as far as it is concerned, has never existed. You're only killing a living thing, such as a bug or a mammal. What's the first memory you have? When you were five? Seven? Ten? Anyway, there is no "right" decision, possibly not even a best solution, but I do know it's wrong to go and tell people that they're wrong based on your beliefs.

Yes, its good that the baby goes to heaven. But do you know what happens to people who kill anything with a soul? Yes, that's right.......

They go to Hell.

So... do animals have souls? Or just people?

If just people, does that mean God has no problem with you raising 5000 chimpanzees, teaching them all sign language, getting them to know you and love you and trust you and then SKINNING THEM ALL AND BOILING THEM ALIVE? Since you know, they don't have souls and all.

I'm a liberal, but I tend to agree with you. I don't see abortion as wrong or evil, just as a make-shift solution to the larger problem of a lack of morality in society. I know there are many cases where abortion is not immoral, abortion was not the proper solution to this yound girl's problems. No 13 year old girl should ever get pregnant. Her parents should have talked to her about sex before she got pregnant, they should have reinforced good behavior and punished bad behaviour (like parents used to do). Clearly the parents failed here. Same with the parents of the "father". What was a 15 year old doing fucking a 13 year old? His parents should have taught him a thing or to about responsibility. What society seems to be today doesn't make me feel good.


PS, whats the Roe vs Wade thing?I know, I also believe abortion is okay. But only in the case of rape, incest, or death of mother at childbirth.
For once, a liberal on this site has reasonably explained their point to me, and those points are the ones I respect. Oh the Roe vs. Wade thing was just out of pure anger.

I agree that society is disillusioned. Why are we all wearing clothes at all?? :rolleyes:

Getting an abortion is not killing an infant.
HOW IN THE WORLD IS THIS NOT MURDER?!
http://img100.exs.cx/img100/1257/murder9bb.jpg (WARNING: not for the sqeamish!)
THIS IS DEFINITELY MURDER!!!!

That has been the problem with Liberal propaganda.

Have sex at any ages, GO THATS FINE. Go take drugs, THATS FINE. Go and kill your hidden baby, THATS ALL FINE.

I have only a few words for the incredibly dumb and naïve girl: CONDOMS.

Screw the liberals, giving us too many rights. Now people have became a bunch of rights-loving freaks. Good job. Now people, go kill babies/take drugs/have sex with any random strangers now. Since ya'll seem to defend these ideals soo much.

I find the whole stink on abortion ridiculous anyway. Something without conciousness of existence, as far as it is concerned, has never existed. You're only killing a living thing, such as a bug or a mammal. What's the first memory you have? When you were five? Seven? Ten? Anyway, there is no "right" decision, possibly not even a best solution, but I do know it's wrong to go and tell people that they're wrong based on your beliefs.

Well it's usually 3-4 or earlier, but anyone who tells you they remember the womb is lying.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :headbang: See? See? You don't get it! You just don't get it! No one these days takes responsibility for their immoral actions! You have sex, you bear the child, and you give it up for adoption! Do that! Getting abortion is killing an infant too damnit! God! I'm tired of you freaking liberals and how you don't care about life! You care only about your freaking ass "rights". Yeah, well, how about I shove the roe vs. wade ruling up your freaking ass!


Blah Blah Blah. Don't say 'freaking ass'... that is stupid... if you are going to do a half cuss, go all the way, damn it! You gosh darn asshole, you.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :headbang: See? See? You don't get it! You just don't get it! No one these days takes responsibility for their immoral actions! You have sex, you bear the child, and you give it up for adoption! Do that! Getting abortion is killing an infant too damnit! God! I'm tired of you freaking liberals and how you don't care about life! You care only about your freaking ass "rights". Yeah, well, how about I shove the roe vs. wade ruling up your freaking ass!
Somebody likes to flame. Since when is a three-week-old cluster of cells an "infant"? That term applies only when a baby has been born.

HOW IN THE WORLD IS THIS NOT MURDER?!
http://img100.exs.cx/img100/1257/murder9bb.jpg (WARNING: not for the sqeamish!)

Infant (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=infant)

Now, you may call me a 13 year old male religious conservative nutjob, but I'm going to tell you this news:

In the Bronx, a 13 year old girl was impregnated by her 15 year old boyfriend. She then hid her pregnancy with coats. When she went into labor, her mother was asleep, so she had the baby and threw it out the window of her apartment and into the alley and killed it. The father was pissed off at him, but, being a loser, he put the body of the baby into a birthday bag and left it in front of a church. It was found and the girl is now under arrest for murder(and that she should be).



Now that you have read it, read it again. This is today's society, people. Here, if you still don't get i, let me do a little skit for you:
-Morals loses his best friend-
Characters:
Society
Morals

Morals: Hey Society, what's up?

Society: Look Morals, I know we have been best friends, but I've met new friends. Their names are Hollywood, Teen Sexuality, and Abortion just to name a few. They told me I shouldn't hang out with you anymore.

Morals: But, those guys will lead you down the wrong path!

Society: No they won't, you will.

Morals(sighing): Fine....but...you'll see....oh,you'll see.

-End-


Well, Society still hasn't seen it yet, and its been getting worse. Before the 60s, girls wore long skirts, sleeved shirts, and underwear that tried to cover their private areas. Now, they wear: short shorts, thongs, midriffs, tank tops, and uggh...it just makes me sick. You can call me a 13 year old religious zealot, but I stand where I am: We have lost our ways.

I haven't heard this story before, but I couldn't agree more. It's very sad really.

Is the father being charged as well? (Could he be charged with murder in the 2nd degree?)

A 13 yr old having a baby in the first place is a worry in itself. It's likely though that if things (morals, society) degrade in this way (as you believe they have), something will probably occur to bring the issue to a head (3rd world war, global virus/plague)

I don't know if it's quite at that level yet, but that certainly is a disturbing tale

Well it's usually 3-4 or earlier, but anyone who tells you they remember the womb is lying.

Physically you cannot remember anything before 3 years old. It's a psychological fact. So they are indeed lying.

That has been the problem with Liberal propaganda.

Have sex at any ages, GO THATS FINE. Go take drugs, THATS FINE. Go and kill your hidden baby, THATS ALL FINE.

I have only a few words for the incredibly dumb and naïve girl: CONDOMS.

Screw the liberals, giving us too many rights. Now people have became a bunch of rights-loving freaks. Good job. Now people, go kill babies/take drugs/have sex with any random strangers now. Since ya'll seem to defend these ideals soo much.

That was sarcasm, right?

Can someone be born with two souls, or perhaps with no soul? What is the specific gravity of a soul? How does it effect light striking it or passing through it? What the hell is a soul? If you can't answer these questions, kindly shut the fuck up about an undifferentiated mass of cells having one.

So... do animals have souls? Or just people?

If just people, does that mean God has no problem with you raising 5000 chimpanzees, teaching them all sign language, getting them to know you and love you and trust you and then SKINNING THEM ALL AND BOILING THEM ALIVE? Since you know, they don't have souls and all.
I'm not saying its okay to slaughter animals, that's bad too, as God said "Take care of the planet". But the needs of humans in my opinion are more important than animals, and God agrees with that. when it comes to feeding the human race, animals will die. If they die pointlessly and are not replaced(because like most people, I like to fish and hunt, but I'd replace the creatures through asking the government to "re-stock" as its called.)then its bad

HOW IN THE WORLD IS THIS NOT MURDER?!
http://img100.exs.cx/img100/1257/murder9bb.jpg (WARNING: not for the sqeamish!)

It seems a bit too much like plastic and catchup to me, kid.
I think you should stop using "it is impressive enough" as a criterion for believing what you see and read.

Have you ever seen a newborn baby? It looks much gorier than that silly picture

Adoption? Do you know how many children remain in orphanages without being adopted at all?


The vast majority of children in orphanages are older children, not babies. There are currently over two million couples waiting to adopt newborns right now. Anually there are 1 million abortions carried out. I can do the math. I hope you can.

Abortion is not a matter of preserveing rights for anybody. 60% of all abortions are coererced. It is a travesty of paternal rights. If a woman wants an abortion, there is absolutely nothing a father can do to stop her from killing his child. As far as children's rights it is obvious. Abortion is murder. If a woman gets an abortion she should be imprisoned. If a doctor performs one he/she is a hitman. If a man does not try to stop his his baby from being aborted, he is just as responsible for the murder as the mother.

The scientific data all says that that a fetus is alive. If it is alive, then DNA would prove it is human. Doesn't that, by definition make it a human life.

Holy Paradise, keep up the good fight. There aren't many people anymore

That has been the problem with Liberal propaganda.

Have sex at any ages, GO THATS FINE. Go take drugs, THATS FINE. Go and kill your hidden baby, THATS ALL FINE.

I have only a few words for the incredibly dumb and naïve girl: CONDOMS.

Screw the liberals, giving us too many rights. Now people have became a bunch of rights-loving freaks. Good job. Now people, go kill babies/take drugs/have sex with any random strangers now. Since ya'll seem to defend these ideals soo much.
Yes liberalism is the belief that killing babies, taking drugs, and have promiscuous sex is constructive :rolleyes:. Listen, mack. Condoms when used correctly are still only 98% effective. If you want to talk popping pills, ask Rush Limbaugh what it's like.

Can someone be born with two souls, or perhaps with no soul? What is the specific gravity of a soul? How does it effect light striking it or passing through it? What the hell is a soul?

Good points! Finally someone who makes me smile. Thanks (shame you got so aggressive in the end)

HOW IN THE WORLD IS THIS NOT MURDER?!
http://img100.exs.cx/img100/1257/murder9bb.jpg (WARNING: not for the sqeamish!)
THIS IS DEFINITELY MURDER!!!!
No size for you, bitch.

It's a fucking plastic doll.

Holy Paradise, I am just going to let you know that I agree with you 100%, its bad, its gonna get worse, but in the end it's all gonna be worth it. God Bless

Can someone be born with two souls, or perhaps with no soul? What is the specific gravity of a soul? How does it effect light striking it or passing through it? What the hell is a soul? If you can't answer these questions, kindly shut the fuck up about an undifferentiated mass of cells having one.
I can answer each of those questions: 1. Neither. All humans are born with one soul. 2. It has none, its a spiritual essence. 2. It doesn't, its a spiritual, not physical object. 4. The soul is your conscience, your beliefs, your body after you die.

Now, you may call me a 13 year old male religious conservative nutjob, but I'm going to tell you this news:

In the Bronx, a 13 year old girl was impregnated by her 15 year old boyfriend. She then hid her pregnancy with coats. When she went into labor, her mother was asleep, so she had the baby and threw it out the window of her apartment and into the alley and killed it. The father was pissed off at him, but, being a loser, he put the body of the baby into a birthday bag and left it in front of a church. It was found and the girl is now under arrest for murder(and that she should be).

Well, Society still hasn't seen it yet, and its been getting worse. Before the 60s, girls wore long skirts, sleeved shirts, and underwear that tried to cover their private areas. Now, they wear: short shorts, thongs, midriffs, tank tops, and uggh...it just makes me sick. You can call me a 13 year old religious zealot, but I stand where I am: We have lost our ways.

Have you ever been to the Bronx or lived without resources to help you with
hard choices in your life?

If you think this is an issue about how society has gone to hell because of thongs, then you are sheltered.

The good news is that you are 13.
Get the heck out of where ever you live and see how people who are different from you live and why they make the decisions that they do before you judge them.

I don't approve of what this girl did, the whole situation is really sad to me. Why did she feel like she had to hide her pregnancy? Why did she feel like she should have the kid? Why did she feel like she had to kill it once she had it?

I think the crux of the problem lies in the answer to those questions, not what kind of clothes the girl was wearing or not wearing.

No size for you, bitch.

It's a fucking plastic doll.
You'd think he could make it a little more convincing than that...

Holy Paradise, I am just going to let you know that I agree with you 100%, its bad, its gonna get worse, but in the end it's all gonna be worth it. God Bless
Yep. I agree with you too. Thanks for supporting me.

It seems a bit too much like plastic and catchup to me, kid.
Maybe so, but there is damn good reason to do it!

Holy Paradise, keep up the good fight. There aren't many people anymore

Good. I can't wait until you're gone.

Anally there are 1 million abortions carried out. I can do the math. I hope you can.

Ouch.

Can anyone substantiate this story? Because I sure as hell can't find anything about it.

HOW IN THE WORLD IS THIS NOT MURDER?!
http://img100.exs.cx/img100/1257/murder9bb.jpg (WARNING: not for the sqeamish!)
THIS IS DEFINITELY MURDER!!!!
It's not murder because the brain in that fetus would be smaller than the brain in a rat. I have no problem with people killing rats, therefore....

The vast majority of children in orphanages are older children, not babies. There are currently over two million couples waiting to adopt newborns right now. Anually there are 1 million abortions carried out. I can do the math. I hope you can.

You can't do the math. The only babies that there are a shortage of are white, healthy, non drug-addicted babies. Once you start adopting black, sick, crack babies, you can talk.

whoa! dude you are 13 and you are realising this! right on dude! I admire you, it took me a while to grow up and figure out society is getting worse and worse. I dunno if you are christian are not, but you are pretty cool to me.

I can answer each of those questions: 1. Neither. All humans are born with one soul. 2. It has none, its a spiritual essence. 2. It doesn't, its a spiritual, not physical object. 4. The soul is your conscience, your beliefs, your body after you die.
Proof? Do you know these things for sure? Or did somebody just tell you them and now you believe them?

Have you ever been to the Bronx or lived without resources to help you with
hard choices in your life?

If you think this is an issue about how society has gone to hell because of thongs, then you are sheltered.

The good news is that you are 13.
Get the heck out of where ever you live and see how people who are different from you live and why they make the decisions that they do before you judge them.

I don't approve of what this girl did, the whole situation is really sad to me. Why did she feel like she had to hide her pregnancy? Why did she feel like she should have the kid? Why did she feel like she had to kill it once she had it?

I think the crux of the problem lies in the answer to those questions, not what kind of clothes the girl was wearing or not wearing.The reason about the clothes is that they are designed to attract men sexually, not just for warmth and to cover your private area.

I agree with Holy Paradise on everything. And to non-believers out there, I don't understand how you people can live thinking there's no one out there and that we don't have souls. And the mother posting messages, you probably do not realize what happens when teens today get pregnant. They have to hide it, or they are ignored, shunned, cast out. I know this because I am a 15 yr. old who has seen a few pregnant teens at my school. They were practically disowned by their parents, and they were constantly made fun of and tortured verbally by their classmates and even their own friends. They HAVE to hide evidence that they're pregnant until they can find someone who understands and can help them.

P.S.-- The soul is there once the zygote is formed.

I can answer each of those questions: 1. Neither. All humans are born with one soul. 2. It has none, its a spiritual essence. 2. It doesn't, its a spiritual, not physical object. 4. The soul is your conscience, your beliefs, your body after you die.
What evidence do you have that it exists then? If it doesn't interact with our senses, our scientific tools can't detect it, what's the difference between a soul and nothing at all?

Maybe so, but there is damn good reason to do it!

Yeah. Not having an adoption will save that little doll.

Proof? Do you know these things for sure? Or did somebody just tell you them and now you believe them?
My soul believes such.

EDIT - Oh, the baby thing is just wrong. My skit is in response to the rest of your post.

Lol, very nice skit, but where does being "different" become wrong? Why do people dislike cannibals? or murderers? They're just different, aren't they?

I know that was all wrong, but its one of the only ways I know to get a point across. I don't know much about religions other than christianity (and not a great deal about it) but don't they teach responsibility for your own actions and general morality (don't kill, don't rape, do what you would want others to do to you) as well? I don't buy into traditional christianity, but if you ignore some bullshit, it is a great teaching. Religions may not be "right" or "wrong" but they are a good way to get across the idea of living a good, moral, and fullfilling life. (then again, so is good parenting, but that seems to be a dead dog in many cases)

A 13 year old girl who killed her baby and the boy who impregnated her are immoral, not different. They should have been taught concepts such as morality and the good life. If you are old enough to have sex, you are old enough to buy a box of condoms. An abortion is not the solution, but once the impregnation has taken place it is a short term option which should be used sparingly.

And the fetus-soul thing, thats for each indivual to decide for themselves, no matter what the government or fanatics on either side believe others should believe.

So even abortion is murder.

Now, you may call me a 13 year old male religious conservative nutjob, but I'm going to tell you this news:

In the Bronx, a 13 year old girl was impregnated by her 15 year old boyfriend. She then hid her pregnancy with coats. When she went into labor, her mother was asleep, so she had the baby and threw it out the window of her apartment and into the alley and killed it. The father was pissed off at him, but, being a loser, he put the body of the baby into a birthday bag and left it in front of a church. It was found and the girl is now under arrest for murder(and that she should be).



Now that you have read it, read it again. This is today's society, people. Here, if you still don't get i, let me do a little skit for you:
-Morals loses his best friend-
Characters:
Society
Morals

Morals: Hey Society, what's up?

Society: Look Morals, I know we have been best friends, but I've met new friends. Their names are Hollywood, Teen Sexuality, and Abortion just to name a few. They told me I shouldn't hang out with you anymore.

Morals: But, those guys will lead you down the wrong path!

Society: No they won't, you will.

Morals(sighing): Fine....but...you'll see....oh,you'll see.

-End-


Well, Society still hasn't seen it yet, and its been getting worse. Before the 60s, girls wore long skirts, sleeved shirts, and underwear that tried to cover their private areas. Now, they wear: short shorts, thongs, midriffs, tank tops, and uggh...it just makes me sick. You can call me a 13 year old religious zealot, but I stand where I am: We have lost our ways.
Seems to me morals were the problem. I call it 1950s Syndrome, when a person does something and becomes more obsessed with morality and how it would look then with ethics and basic right and wrong.

If you forget about your morals the story would have gone like this.

-Girl gets knocked up.
-Girl tells parents.
-Parents get mad.
-Parents still love daughter and though disappointed help her raise child.

And with a little wishful thinking she can join the hordes (at least that I know of) that graduate and go on to live productive and happy lives.

whoa! dude you are 13 and you are realising this! right on dude! I admire you, it took me a while to grow up and figure out society is getting worse and worse. I dunno if you are christian are not, but you are pretty cool to me.

He's someone who thinks the world is black and white, and there should be a big list of rules which say yes and no - whereas really, most issues are many shades of grey.

EAsy, he never had sex to know how good it is to be alive!

Well according to the thread I started on the findings on Evangelical morality, he will. In fact, he at thirteen has probably started all those "things" that thirteen year old males do, (only under the blanket of self righteous guilt).

Man I remember when I was thirteen, I'd get a woody in a stiff breeze. I walked to a lot of classes holding my books in front of me, if you know what I mean. ;)

I agree with Holy Paradise on everything. And to non-believers out there, I don't understand how you people can live thinking there's no one out there and that we don't have souls. And the mother posting messages, you probably do not realize what happens when teens today get pregnant. They have to hide it, or they are ignored, shunned, cast out. I know this because I am a 15 yr. old who has seen a few pregnant teens at my school. They were practically disowned by their parents, and they were constantly made fun of and tortured verbally by their classmates and even their own friends. They HAVE to hide evidence that they're pregnant until they can find someone who understands and can help them.

P.S.-- The soul is there once the zygote is formed.
How does one detect the presence of a soul? How can we know it's there at all?

The reason about the clothes is that they are designed to attract men sexually, not just for warmth and to cover your private area.
So? You got a problem with women actually, GASP! HORROR!, enjoying sex? Chauvanist.

My soul believes such.
Circular reasoning much?

How does one detect the presence of a soul? How can we know it's there at all?

Ghostbusters!

I agree with Holy Paradise on everything. And to non-believers out there, I don't understand how you people can live thinking there's no one out there and that we don't have souls.
Because it hasn't been proven to me. There's as much proof in saying that God died in 1824 due to cancer.

You can't do the math. The only babies that there are a shortage of are white, healthy, non drug-addicted babies. Once you start adopting black, sick, crack babies, you can talk.

Actually, there are even waiting lists for those babies. My aunt and uncle have adopted 3 mixed race bbabies and they still had to wait about two years for each one. Another interesting fact to note is that there are also waiting lists to adopt babies with Down's Syndrome as well as many other disabilities.

Personally, I think my soul was formed when I was swimming around in my pa's family jewels. Hmm... on that note, we should execute women for kicking said naughty parts for committing murder. I mean, its not my fault those pants DID make her look fat...

Well, then again... I did sell my soul for some bubblegum and baseballs cards back in the early nineties. Mmm... gum.

My soul believes such.

Wow, how could anyone deny such undeniable proof?

Because it hasn't been proven to me. There's as much proof in saying that God died in 1824 due to cancer.

It wasn't cancer - 'twas "excessive flactulance".

Because it hasn't been proven to me. There's as much proof in saying that God died in 1824 due to cancer.
Nope, Coke overdose. I posted the story twice.

Circular reasoning much?
We all love to do it! Round and round we go!

Like the totally imaginary 'welfare queens' that Reagan used to seethe about.
You guys just keep making this stuff up. You lie and you lie, and try to force oppressive policies based on those lies down our throats, and dare to call us 'immoral.'
You're right. I'm sickened.


Actually, the 'welfare queens' truly exist. I have seen them. I went to school with one (Mary Ann Lydey). When asked in class by the teacher what each of us planned to do with our future, she responded that she planned to turn 16, drop out of school, get pregnant and go on welfare. She was very serious. She said that if it was good enough for her mother, it was good enough for her. Well, guess what? The day she turned 16, she dropped out of school... although, she was already pregnant at the time.

As for the rest of it, you are right... all just urban legend.

If she'd gone ahead and gotten an abortion early on no infant would have been killed and she'd be a free girl today.


Hunh? :confused:

I'll bet your gay.

And by the way, that was the dumbest skit I have read today, and I feel less intelligent for having read it.

Whoa slow down Egg Head! Gay?! Wow, what an intelligent comment. So YOU feel less intelligent for having read his post? I'll bet you're the smartest man alive, thanks for your hefty contribution to the discussion.


Wow, "I'll bet your gay"...I'll have to remember that one next time I need to out wit Einstein.

Listen people, when I'm a father, and I have a daughter, and she, when she becomes a teen, and if she gets pregnant(unless its rape, incest, or she'll die at childbirth), and tells me about it, I will not yell at her or such. Instead I will tell her this, "Thanks for telling me. That took a lot of courage and I respect that. But you will have to carry the child. You will bear the child, and you will put it up for adoption." (But I would try to raise her so she wouldn't have consensual sex)

Because it hasn't been proven to me. There's as much proof in saying that God died in 1824 due to cancer.

Yeah... there was no surgeon general back then to warn about tobacco, so this seems to hold more weight for me.

It wasn't cancer - 'twas "excessive flactulance".
In the news today, God died because of a giant fart. It caused several earthquakes around the globe.

You know, I see where you are coming from on this, but still. My point:

Maybe she wouldn't have had to try to hide it all the time and try to get rid of it if it wasn't for people like you looking down on people like her and making her feel like the lowest scum on the lake bottom.

I actually identify with this kid a little. I went through a hyper-religious phase as a young teen. I used to write to operation rescue and try to help out. Once he gets to see the world a little, seriously examines his ideas, and those of others, he'll probably come around. Either that or shoot a gynecologist.

What evidence do you have that it exists then? If it doesn't interact with our senses, our scientific tools can't detect it, what's the difference between a soul and nothing at all?

Not everything can be explained with science. Even if things are looked at with an atheist's view, things like, for example, the existence of a deceased president, cannot be proven scientifically. You know he existed because of records and history books, but science is technically something you can experiment with. Therefore, a soul, although not shown scientifically, exists.

Actually, the 'welfare queens' truly exist. I have seen them. I went to school with one (Mary Ann Lydey). When asked in class by the teacher what each of us planned to do with our future, she responded that she planned to turn 16, drop out of school, get pregnant and go on welfare. She was very serious. She said that if it was good enough for her mother, it was good enough for her. Well, guess what? The day she turned 16, she dropped out of school... although, she was already pregnant at the time.

As for the rest of it, you are right... all just urban legend.
Of course there are welfare queens, but they make up 2% of the people receiving welfare.

People, you think I'll become a liberal when I'm older, but I've been a conservative for a longggggggg time.

Listen people, when I'm a father, and I have a daughter, and she, when she becomes a teen, and if she gets pregnant(unless its rape, incest, or she'll die at childbirth), and tells me about it, I will not yell at her or such. Instead I will tell her this, "Thanks for telling me. That took a lot of courage and I respect that. But you will have to carry the child. You will bear the child, and you will put it up for adoption." (But I would try to raise her so she wouldn't have consensual sex)

...

Good for you? What's your point?

EDIT: How the hell do I keep getting the top posts on each page?

Listen people, when I'm a father, and I have a daughter, and she, when she becomes a teen, and if she gets pregnant(unless its rape, incest, or she'll die at childbirth), and tells me about it, I will not yell at her or such. Instead I will tell her this, "Thanks for telling me. That took a lot of courage and I respect that. But you will have to carry the child. You will bear the child, and you will put it up for adoption." (But I would try to raise her so she wouldn't have consensual sex)
Would you voluntarily shit a bowling ball? You're asking her to do much worse. Sexist pig.

I actually identify with this kid a little. I went through a hyper-religious phase as a young teen. I used to wright to operation rescue and try to help out. Once he gets to see the world a little, seriously examines his ideas, and those of others, he'll probably come around. Either that or shoot a gynecologist.
I'm 15, and for the past couple of years, I've been through a super-secular phase. My dad did too, and now he's a practicing conervative Jew. Conservative not in the political sense, in the religious sense.

Morals, shmorals!

It takes a special kind of crazy to throw a baby out a window, not merley a lack of morals.

Not everything can be explained with science. Even if things are looked at with an atheist's view, things like, for example, the existence of a deceased president, cannot be proven scientifically. You know he existed because of records and history books, but science is technically something you can experiment with. Therefore, a soul, although not shown scientifically, exists.
Bullshit. If a soul exists just because it can't be disproved, then I own a pet T Rex. You have to beleive me, you can't prove it's not true.

:eek:

God, Allah, Buddha, Vishnu, Zeus, whoever, but someone save America!!!

Listen people, when I'm a father, and I have a daughter, and she, when she becomes a teen, and if she gets pregnant(unless its rape, incest, or she'll die at childbirth), and tells me about it, I will not yell at her or such. Instead I will tell her this, "Thanks for telling me. That took a lot of courage and I respect that. But you will have to carry the child. You will bear the child, and you will put it up for adoption." (But I would try to raise her so she wouldn't have consensual sex)
Yes, she can only have sex when she is raped. Because those slutty women just ask for it with their tube tops and such.

Yes, its good that the baby goes to heaven. But do you know what happens to people who kill anything with a soul? Yes, that's right.......

They go to Hell.

Really? Well thats ok cause I figure I'm already going in that direction. Not that I would kill a baby (Baby being a small child that has exited the womb)

The list of reasons I'm going to HELL:
Because I'm a vegitarian.
I have no faith.
I dont go to church.
I covet my neighbors goods.
I am occasionaly slightly gluttonous.

Would you voluntarily shit a bowling ball? You're asking her to do much worse. Sexist pig.
If my 13 year old daughter got pregnant, I sure as hell wouldn't make her go through labor.

People, you think I'll become a liberal when I'm older, but I've been a conservative for a longggggggg time.
You haven't been alive for a longggggg time. Besides, I didn't say you would definately become more liberal. I said you might. You might also shoot a gynecologist.

Yeah, well, how about I shove the roe vs. wade ruling up your freaking ass!

No offense, but you might wanna watch that. Many people will undoubtedly construe this as flamebait.

:eek:

God, Allah, Buddha, Vishnu, Zeus, whoever, but someone save America!!!

Cthulhu will save us.

The list of reasons I'm going to HELL:
Because I'm a vegitarian.
I have no faith.
I dont go to church.
I covet my neighbors goods.
I am occasionaly slightly gluttonous.
It's all ok in my book. But I'm just a heathen Jew.

Morals, shmorals!

It takes a special kind of crazy to throw a baby out a window, not merley a lack of morals.

But the lack of morals really doesn't make anything better. A thirteen year old girl is still mentally developing. Yes, for an adult to do something like that, they're crazy. But a little girl doesn't yet have a proper grasp on reality. She didn't do it simply because she's messed up in the head.

You haven't been alive for a longggggg time.

Do you mind if I choose you as my favorite person?

People, you think I'll become a liberal when I'm older, but I've been a conservative for a longggggggg time.

So... even if you've been cognitively thinking every minute of your life, 13 years is a long time? Hell, I was a virgin until the age of 21 just because of moral reasons, as I'm an agnostic and frown upon this funny little religious stuff.

I barely know how you can even be conservative at the age of 13... 14 maybe...

No offense, but you might wanna watch that. Many people will undoubtedly construe this as flamebait.
Yeah, the kids got anger issues. Poor guy. He'll come around.

People, listen, I don't know why its so bad that I'm trying to be a moral person. You people are making it look like I'm a bad person just because I believe people should be better morally.

Cthulhu will save us.

LMAO, yes!

Cthulhu will save us.
Gimme that old time religion! Ia! Chtulhu Ftagn

So... even if you've been cognitively thinking every minute of your life, 13 years is a long time? Hell, I was a virgin until the age of 21 just because of moral reasons, as I'm an agnostic and frown upon this funny little religious stuff.

I barely know how you can even be conservative at the age of 13... 14 maybe...
It would be interesting to see the percentage of libertarians in their teens. I would imagine it's pretty high.

I actually identify with this kid a little. I went through a hyper-religious phase as a young teen. I used to wright to operation rescue and try to help out. Once he gets to see the world a little, seriously examines his ideas, and those of others, he'll probably come around. Either that or shoot a gynecologist.

Yeah - well. Fair enough - if he examines his ideas a little more.

He says abortion is ok, but only in certain situations... A, B or C, but... I'm sure there's a situation D too - and an E. You can't really go making hardline statements like this drawing a line - there will be other situations which you haven't thought about, which if you had thought of them, you'd see ... "yeah - that's another situation where it's ok".

He's too eager to draw lines "good", "evil". "conservative", "liberal". "religious", "non-believers".

The thing is that being "religious" doesn't stop people being stupid or immoral. Many people wear it like a badge - e.g. "I'm a christian, and I go to church, so I know what's right - everything you say is wrong".

I mean - I personally think that Liberalism is bad.... in the hands of idiots who don't know right from wrong and who have no sense of morals. I think conservativism on the other hand is too eager to draw lines in the sand and label everything as good and bad, whereas things really can't be judged like that without knowing the details.

Anyway - he's 13, and yet seems to proclaim to know it all. Perhaps a little less ego and a bit more humble would be better.

People, listen, I don't know why its so bad that I'm trying to be a moral person. You people are making it look like I'm a bad person just because I believe people should be better morally.

LOL, shame on you!!! You and your morals trying to disrupt our perfectly corrupted society! How dare you! :rolleyes:

Would you voluntarily shit a bowling ball? You're asking her to do much worse. Sexist pig.

It would show there are consequences for particular actions. One can't deny cause and effect.

One can't (or at least shouldn't) go around having 1000000 babies and just killing them because they were a side effect of stupid/irresponsible/immoral activities.

Whether abortion is "murder" or not is debatable, but it can be 100% definately called killing

:mad: :mad: :mad: :headbang: See? See? You don't get it! You just don't get it! No one these days takes responsibility for their immoral actions! You have sex, you bear the child, and you give it up for adoption! Do that! Getting abortion is killing an infant too damnit! God! I'm tired of you freaking liberals and how you don't care about life! You care only about your freaking ass "rights". Yeah, well, how about I shove the roe vs. wade ruling up your freaking ass!

I do care about life. I don't, however, care about the foetus before it is life. After that point, I don't like the idea. But yes, we liberals *do* care about rights. When you don't have any, living isn't all too fun.

In this case, this was murder of a living being, and not right.
But really, that post you just made was very uncalled-for.

Whats the difference between say, the girl murdering her mother's newborn and this case. Both are really really wrong and they should be punished of course. Whats the difference between the two?

Do you mind if I choose you as my favorite person?
What makes you think I'm a person?

Lol, very nice skit, but where does being "different" become wrong? Why do people dislike cannibals? or murderers? They're just different, aren't they?

I know that was all wrong, but its one of the only ways I know to get a point across. I don't know much about religions other than christianity (and not a great deal about it) but don't they teach responsibility for your own actions and general morality (don't kill, don't rape, do what you would want others to do to you) as well? I don't buy into traditional christianity, but if you ignore some bullshit, it is a great teaching. Religions may not be "right" or "wrong" but they are a good way to get across the idea of living a good, moral, and fullfilling life. (then again, so is good parenting, but that seems to be a dead dog in many cases)

A 13 year old girl who killed her baby and the boy who impregnated her are immoral, not different. They should have been taught concepts such as morality and the good life. If you are old enough to have sex, you are old enough to buy a box of condoms. An abortion is not the solution, but once the impregnation has taken place it is a short term option which should be used sparingly.

And the fetus-soul thing, thats for each indivual to decide for themselves, no matter what the government or fanatics on either side believe others should believe.

That is really a tough one, but I'll try. I, like most people I guess, have a gut feeling about things one way or the other. Now I know for a fact from Holy Paradise's views that my feelings may differ from others. The problem with using morality to define right and wrong is in it's subjectivity. For example, Holy Paradise sees sexuality and skimpy clothes as immoral, whereas I do not.

Soooo.... I feel that one way to define right and wrong is to look at the action, and see if it harms someone; or something significant. If it does, the likelyhood is that the action should be labeled wrong. For example, murder is wrong because it harms another. The exceptions may come if the benefits FAR outway the harm done to someone, but that is a grayer area.

The other way to do it is based on the belief that our rights end where another's begin. If a list of rights that man/animal/inanimate object, respectively have is agreed apon, then an action would be wrong if it violated one of those thing's rights.

These and perhaps a few similar are the only ways for the majority/govn't/leaders to define right and wrong in a diverse society.

Hopefully that was somewhat intelligible.

Cthulhu will save us.
If by "save" you mean drive insane, kill, and eat (not neccessarily in that order), then yes.

Yes, its good that the baby goes to heaven. But do you know what happens to people who kill anything with a soul? Yes, that's right.......

They go to Hell.

So, your problem is, what? Exactly?

Baby goes to heaven, bad people burn for all eternity... and you go on and on and on.

I hate it when people say something is 'moral'. Everybody has their own morals!

I quite like this thread, only because it is hilarious to see Americans at each others throats over such trivial issues.

People always think society in THEIR time is far worse than in the 'good old days'. However teenage pregnacies are not anything new nor is teenage sex. We might take the example of Shakespeare's Juilet who I believe is very young in the play as is Desdemona in Othello. Although fictional both of these show that sex with under aged girls is not a recent thing. Indeed people used to marry at very early ages - some even as young as 13. Would that be 'immoral'?

There is a midway to abortion which we British (always one step ahead) have implemented. We only allow abortions before the embroyo is 21 weeks old. Under English law (superior law) murder is "the unlawful killing of another human being under the Queen's Peace in any realm". By case law, it has been decided that foetuses are not human beings and so killing on does not make you liable for murder. The moment it is born however it becomes a human being.

As for religion, I often find it hilarious how Christians, Muslims and other overly zealous people somehow try and apply ancient doctrines to new problems. The New Testament was written a long time ago (by Papal scholars not by God) and it cannot be expected to issue a mantra on modern day society. The Bible as a source of social instructions has been in rapid decline ever since the 1700s and will continue to do so. Most Anglican vicars already openly admit that most of the Bible is metaphorical and not literal. I have long abadoned religion as a source of faith and so instead choose to believe in my country, something of far greater substance and reality.

And finally, women wearing tasteless and revealing clothing is indeed a problem but once again not a very new one. Generally public displays of social immorality come and go: you might for example consider the regency era which was full of low cut tops, bared shoulders, shown thighs and ill concealed breasts. Generally such trends pass.

It would be interesting to see the percentage of libertarians in their teens. I would imagine it's pretty high.

Well, I was making an arguement from my standpoint... I forgot to mention that I'm only 21 now myself. :p

I sure wasn't thinking about "being" conservative at 13. And I certainly knew that I didn't know enough about the world at that age to even TRY and tell other people what is right or wrong.

Whether abortion is "murder" or not is debatable, but it can be 100% definately called killing
It can't be called killing if it's done before the foetus counts life. After that point, it is killing.

man this thread is funny just to read... :D

he does have a factual point though - morals have been 'lost' since the victorian days. only a while before then, as i undersand it, 13 year old girls were fair game - certainly in biblical times... odd eh? ;)

what i want to know is what Holy Paradise plans to do about it though - its all very well bitching away on some internet forum, but what good is that going to do?

If by "save" you mean drive insane, kill, and eat (not neccessarily in that order), then yes.

What else could it mean?

I sure wasn't thinking about "being" conservative at 13. And I certainly knew that I didn't know enough about the world at that age to even TRY and tell other people what is right or wrong.
When I was 13, the schools and my parents were trying to brainwash everybody into being conservatives. Which was fairly annoying.

I knew enough to know that I didn't know anything then.

What makes you think I'm a person?

Do you mind if I choose you as my favorite non-specific entity?

I know, people, yes I have a bit too large of an ego. and i should work on that. But this is my point, I don't care what religion you are or if you don't believe it. But at least respect the beliefs of morals of other religions(Unless its like murder or such) I would now like this topic to be closed, as its causing everyone to bring out their worst, and that includes me.

When I was 13, the schools and my parents were trying to brainwash everybody into being conservatives. Which was fairly annoying.

I knew enough to know that I didn't know anything then.

Yeah, pretty much my point. You have to take anything before college education with a grain of salt. This coming from an anti-religious republican. :p

I do care about life. I don't, however, care about the foetus before it is life. After that point, I don't like the idea. But yes, we liberals *do* care about rights. When you don't have any, living isn't all too fun.

In this case, this was murder of a living being, and not right.
But really, that post you just made was very uncalled-for.

WTF, a foetus is life. That is indisputable, it's alive. You're telling me that until a baby is born it's dead?

Whether it is sentient (can think for itself/has brain activity) essentially defines whether killing it would be murder (to me at least). This would probably be the case until only a few short weeks after conception

Yes, its good that the baby goes to heaven. But do you know what happens to people who kill anything with a soul? Yes, that's right.......

They go to Hell.

Hell doesn't exist.

Yes, she can only have sex when she is raped. Because those slutty women just ask for it with their tube tops and such.

AMEN!!

...I was wondering if I was the only person who thought that Holy Paradise's intending to raise a girl that only had non-consensual sex was screwed up.

Yes, we need more girls that think sex is so bad that they should not have it unless they are raped by men/boys who are allowed to be animals. heavy sarcasm right.

People, listen, I don't know why its so bad that I'm trying to be a moral person. You people are making it look like I'm a bad person just because I believe people should be better morally.
Well then, please don't flame liberals. More people would probably pay more attention to what you had to say.

man this thread is funny just to read... :D

he does have a factual point though - morals have been 'lost' since the victorian days. only a while before then, as i undersand it, 13 year old girls were fair game - certainly in biblical times... odd eh? ;)

what i want to know is what Holy Paradise plans to do about it though - its all very well bitching away on some internet forum, but what good is that going to do?I don't think I, a 13 year old, would be allowed to start pro-life protests and such.

Do you mind if I choose you as my favorite non-specific entity?
I am the mindless idiot god who dwells at the center of chaos, so I don't mind at all.

Hell doesn't exist.

Can I get a source for that?



Being from Idaho, I have irrefutable proof... its down the street. :D

If by "save" you mean drive insane, kill, and eat (not neccessarily in that order), then yes.

YEAH!!! IA IA CTHULHU FHGTAN!

(How do you spell that? The faghtan/ fagtn/Fhtagn. I'd look it up but I lost my copy of 'Call of Cthulhu and other tales.")

Can't stay ahead of the posts, each time I post theres a new page :P

Being from Idaho, I have irrefutable proof... its down the street. :D

What's that? Mother-in-law's house? :D

WTF, a foetus is life. That is indisputable, it's alive. You're telling me that until a baby is born it's dead?

I never said anything about it being born. It becomes life before that.

Whether it is sentient (can think for itself/has brain activity) essentially defines whether killing it would be murder (to me at least). This would probably be the case until only a few short weeks after conception
I guess that I mean what you do. I shouldn't say life, really, because I mean what you said. I just used the wrong word/s.

man this thread is funny just to read... :D

he does have a factual point though - morals have been 'lost' since the victorian days. only a while before then, as i undersand it, 13 year old girls were fair game - certainly in biblical times... odd eh? ;)

what i want to know is what Holy Paradise plans to do about it though - its all very well bitching away on some internet forum, but what good is that going to do?


Pure Metal brings up a valid point. If you are passionate about stopping the slaughter of children or improving the moral character of society, you need to get involved. There are groups that are trying to do just that so contact them and get active. If you want to, start your own group. Specifically with abortion, you can flood the mailboxes of our lawmakers. While they may not be able to do anything directly, they can definitely influence whether abortion remains legal by who they approve to be federal judges. Further, if you can vote make sure you vote and do the research to make sure the person you vote for is just as sickened by the practice of abortion as you are.

There is nothing mre annoying that people who gripe about politics, but don't bother to vote. If you don't vote, you don't have a right to complain. Obviously if you are too young to vote then this does not apply.

I never said anything about it being born. It becomes life before that.


I guess that I mean what you do. I shouldn't say life, really, because I mean what you said. I just used the wrong word/s.

Oh, ok, just the way you said what you did sounded weird (its about 5 pages back now, the posting is pretty rapid :eek: )

What's that? Mother-in-law's house? :D

Nah, just more Idaho. :p


Mother-in-law's? *shudder*... that'd be more like purgatory.

I am the mindless idiot god who dwells at the center of chaos, so I don't mind at all.

Sweet. I don't need to break the news to Azathoth then. Well, to you, then.

Back on topic now...

I know, people, yes I have a bit too large of an ego. and i should work on that. But this is my point, I don't care what religion you are or if you don't believe it. But at least respect the beliefs of morals of other religions(Unless its like murder or such) I would now like this topic to be closed, as its causing everyone to bring out their worst, and that includes me.

If you think it's bringing out the worst in you maybe you should figure out why you don't like that side of you so much and change it.

This is a discussion based upon different people's very different beliefs. If you can't stomach it yours probably aren't as solid as you think.

As I said before, I'm glad you are 13. Get out of the area you grew up in and talk to people about how they've made the hard decisions they have made in life.

If you can be open to hearing their logic and still have the same views good for you.

http://www.thephatpad.com/gayfetus.gif

I'm not saying its okay to slaughter animals, that's bad too, as God said "Take care of the planet". But the needs of humans in my opinion are more important than animals, and God agrees with that. when it comes to feeding the human race, animals will die. If they die pointlessly and are not replaced(because like most people, I like to fish and hunt, but I'd replace the creatures through asking the government to "re-stock" as its called.)then its bad

What makes the human race that has helped destroy this planet with wars and pollution among other things more important than animals? Is the reason that "God made man as his own image"? At least the animals are truly innocent, acting on their instincts. Who are you be the judge of a life over another? Because of your morals that have apparently come from a book rewritten hundreds of times in the past two thousand years, originally written by a few people who colourfully interpreted something that someone called Jesus might have said then?

The bible has very good principles, but it has clear indications of "human" stain within it. Passages from the "evil of Babylonia" were greatly modified during the times of the crusades: murder of innocent women and children sanctioned by the bishops and pope then. Blind fate leads to fanaticism, which in my opinion, is not the key to good evolution. Thinking first helps.

The story you have presented us, is sad indeed. The girl didn't take responsibility. She was thirteen. She was scared and as indicated, probably from a lot worse conditions then you could ever imagine. She is not to blame. Sex is not to blame. The world and society, yes, but more due to lack of good education and wellfare.

Try not to judge so much. Try to learn compassion. Try to learn to understand even those things you so hate, than maybe you'll cease directing your hate towards the wrong people. Try to prefer discussion over debate, because if you will not bend, it is ill of you to expect better of those you debate with.

Remember that you don't have any more right to judge people than the next man or woman. If you want to make the world a better place the best way is to learn the values above, instead of relieving your frustration with BIG BOLD LETTERS. Until then, just live your life - don't focus on others, before you're ready to even try and understand them.

The story was sad, so was your reaction. Doesn't make the world any better a place. *sigh*

People, listen, I don't know why its so bad that I'm trying to be a moral person. You people are making it look like I'm a bad person just because I believe people should be better morally.

Some people here have bad conotations of the word "moral" and instantly associate it with religion. Maybe a better word is ethically. Also, about the soul of a fetus thing: maybe it is for your religion to decide it for you, but it is not for your religion to decide it for me and the rest of the world. I have a very moral, (or ethical if you prefer) relative that had an abortion. Her husband had his tubes tied after they had 3 children and apparently some sperm survived, she got pregnant and they didn't wish to have another child. (details: the fetus was aborted as early as it is detectable, so it wasn't far into term)

If you find this case of abortion to be wrong, then we must agree to disagree on the topic.

Yes, its good that the baby goes to heaven. But do you know what happens to people who kill anything with a soul? Yes, that's right.......

They go to Hell.

In the King James (red letter) edition there is ample evidence that the baby would go to hell as well since it is conceived in sin.
Luckily,it's all a myth anyway. Blessed Be Ye

I know, people, yes I have a bit too large of an ego. and i should work on that. But this is my point, I don't care what religion you are or if you don't believe it. But at least respect the beliefs of morals of other religions(Unless its like murder or such)
Exactly. I say it goes both ways, though, as some people believe they should be able to get an abortion...

The problem here is morals not being universal. Damn those free-thinking philosophers...

http://www.thephatpad.com/gayfetus.gif
www.churchofeuthanasia.org/snuffit4/eatfetus.jpg

What makes the human race that has helped destroy this planet with wars and pollution among other things more important than animals? Is the reason that "God made man as his own image"? At least the animals are truly innocent, acting on their instincts. Who are you be the judge of a life over another? Because of your morals that have apparently come from a book rewritten hundreds of times in the past two thousand years, originally written by a few people who colourfully interpreted something that someone called Jesus might have said then?

The bible has very good principles, but it has clear indications of "human" stain within it. Passages from the "evil of Babylonia" were greatly modified during the times of the crusades: murder of innocent women and children sanctioned by the bishops and pope then. Blind fate leads to fanaticism, which in my opinion, is not the key to good evolution. Thinking first helps.

The story you have presented us, is sad indeed. The girl didn't take responsibility. She was thirteen. She was scared and as indicated, probably from a lot worse conditions then you could ever imagine. She is not to blame. Sex is not to blame. The world and society, yes, but more due to lack of good education and wellfare.

Try not to judge so much. Try to learn compassion. Try to learn to understand even those things you so hate, than maybe you'll cease directing your hate towards the wrong people. Try to prefer discussion over debate, because if you will not bend, it is ill of you to expect better of those you debate with.

Remember that you don't have any more right to judge people than the next man or woman. If you want to make the world a better place the best way is to learn the values above, instead of relieving your frustration with BIG BOLD LETTERS. Until then, just live your life - don't focus on others, before you're ready to even try and understand them.

The story was sad, so was your reaction. Doesn't make the world any better a place. *sigh* Thank you for making a nice and detailed post of your opinion. Yes, you are right, I should show more compassion.

Yeah, hi, I'm a 15 year old girl who can use big fancy words, make claims on whether or not society is breaking down, how morals are not enforced, and state my opinion on abortion. But I don't plan on doing that today.

I know some girls who are pregnant, and who are fully supported by their parents. I know my mother would. Not that I'm condoning sex at 13 (or 15, for that matter). It's just sad, that's all. That either sides parents weren't there for their own children, that the two kids probably felt <insert reason here> by having sex with each other. It's just.. sad.

As for being a religious zealot, it became more apparent as you continued posting. Large letters does not mean anyone will pay attention more, unless their half blind.

You seem like a good kid. I'm pretty jaded towards the world too. It doesn't mean you have to loose all faith in it. Instead of criminalizing fashion or what have you, believe that things happen to people for a reason, good or bad. It makes looking at life in the full picture a lot less disappointing.

If you find this case of abortion to be wrong, then we must agree to disagree on the topic.

Yeah - wait a min. I'll just go and look it up in my book of rules - "morals for dummies". Oh wait - no... I have a brain and can think for myself. Yeah - it sounds like a pretty reasonable case.

Bet you're glad you have my approval. You'd probably have cried if you hadn't, right? :/

Before the 60s, girls wore long skirts, sleeved shirts, and underwear that tried to cover their private areas. Now, they wear: short shorts, thongs, midriffs, tank tops, and uggh...it just makes me sick. You can call me a 13 year old religious zealot, but I stand where I am: We have lost our ways.

Ah, my young friend...just wait for puberty and the onset of those hormones...I guarantee you will be singing a much different song. HAHAHAHAHA

What is it with fundies and big bold letters.

at least he isn't using colors..........


Oops, I shouldn't have said that.

www.churchofeuthanasia.org/snuffit4/eatfetus.jpg
Go CoE!

You guys should hear some of the debate going on about that on Usenet. There's one person who is obviously obsessed, and seems to be delusional. She spends hours trying to defame the people that run the CoE with random junk, and whenever somebody says anything to her that sounds like a disagreement, she freaks out and comes up with a conspiracy or something.

The other way to do it is based on the belief that our rights end where another's begin. If a list of rights that man/animal/inanimate object, respectively have is agreed apon, then an action would be wrong if it violated one of those thing's rights.


The rest of what you said was well put and I more or less agree with it, but this I would like clarified. What about something someone does to themself? If I commit suicide, is it not wrong because I didn't violate anyone elses rights? Or any other act perpetrated on ones self, like abuse of a drug or self-mutilation? I see what you said as a very liberal view of rights and what is right and wrong, so I was wondering if that is how you meant it?

Ah, my young friend...just wait for puberty and the onset of those hormones...I guarantee you will be singing a much different song. HAHAHAHAHA
I've already reached it. I have feelings towards women, but I ignore them.

This thread got 50+ posts in 3 minutes. Anyway... at least its not another gay bashing forum. :rolleyes:

EDIT: spelling error :headbang:

I've already reached it. I have feelings towards women, but I ignore them.

Hmm.... sounds like me.... until I found the first girl to have feelings back to me. :D

Ok, reality check time Mr Holy Paradise.

If you would have just brought up this point that you don't agree with this, told us about it, your take, and left it all well and fine, that would be ok. I don't personally agree, but I would except your opinion, and probably nod my head thoughtfully a few times. But when you go off and systematically insult and drag through the mud, everything that most of the people responding to your forum believe in. When you go off like a raving lunatic over the rest of the world that isn't like your little Happy Magic Kodak Moment Jesus-Loving God Fearing Uber-Christian world, I feel the need to step in.

Your forum post here is called "News That Might Sicken You". A very accurate title. I came here, thinking I'm probably going to hear about Guantanamo Bay or the Marine who shot the guy in the mosque (Yes, I said Mosque, a satanic word to you I bet). But no. It was still news to me, and very sickening.

I learned that there are elitist, cruel, ignorant, ethnocentic whackjobs out in the world that still feel the need to point out the slightest imperfection in society. People who are worried that anything that might not fit into "their way" might somehow indirectly affect them, or disturb their aura of peace. Hypocrites.

Some of these people will look at the camera and say "Jesus loves everyone" and then turn away and say "Except for you, you, you, you, and you". People who go on about how we need more love in the world, then turn to a homosexual couple and tell them that their love is bad and not exceptable, and try to keep them from expressing it. People who beg for school prayer, and then take a leak on evolution. People who say "We should help everyone in our community and extend open hands.", then make someone who made one little mistake, like having sex when she maybe shouldn't have, and degrade them, and make examples of them, and twist them, and use their stories to push their agendas and beliefs on to others, and make them feel so awful about themselves, that they would do whatever it took to hide that one mistake.

If you ever meet this poor girl, this girl who's story you abuse just to try to make a point, apologize. You apologize to her, for not only using her story, but for being part of the collective shout that made her decide to try to get rid of her baby.

Hmm.... sounds like me.... until I found the first girl to have feelings back to me. :D
And, I'll still ignore them.

I'll have to remember that one next time I need to out wit Einstein.

I guess that you have never heard of the time honored tradition of the 'one liner'.

The fact of the matter is this: This person, who claims to be only 13 years old is actually quoting an urban legend which first appeared on the internet some 11 years ago. The fact that it is still around is surprising to me. After all, we are much more enlightened now then we were years ago. Of course, when I first heard this story, the author of this thread was in his 2's and his parents were probably wishing that they had thrown HIM out of a window now and then.

Now, as to whether or not I have added anything USEFUL to this conversation, I would have to say: Who cares? Guess what? This is a free forum. I was not aware that I was under an obligation to add anything useful. Of course, if I am, then we must all be. To which I would have to point out that your reply to my post not only validated my statement, but brought into question your useless statement... assuming that you are correct about mine. Of course, you are not.

Now, as for me being the smartest person in the world. Nope, not even close. I would have to say that I have met many, many people who could claim that title far before I could. You, sadly, are just not one of them after all, you believe that you will need help when in a battle of wits with a dead man. Keep trying and maybe one day you can develop a sense of humor.

:No one these days takes responsibility for their immoral actions! You have sex, you bear the child, and you give it up for adoption!

Where is the sex education that would have told them is this possible? Obviously not in their school.

Where are the condoms that could have prevented this?
Obviously not in their school.

Where is the morality that says you take responsibility for your actions and not pray that your invisible freind to make sure you don't miss your cycle?
Obviously not in their school.

You're very mature for 13. You should try thinking for yourself more often. You might take a shine to it.

And, I'll still ignore them.
And miss out on perhaps the best thing in life. I feel sad for you.

Now that you have read it, read it again. This is today's society, people. Here, if you still don't get i, let me do a little skit for you:
-Morals loses his best friend-
Characters:
Society
Morals

Morals: Hey Society, what's up?

Society: Look Morals, I know we have been best friends, but I've met new friends. Their names are Hollywood, Teen Sexuality, and Abortion just to name a few. They told me I shouldn't hang out with you anymore.

Morals: But, those guys will lead you down the wrong path!

Society: No they won't, you will.

Morals(sighing): Fine....but...you'll see....oh,you'll see.

-End-

except that had this girl had an abortion, she wouldn't have murdered an infant. had this girl not felt pressured to remain chaste by her parents, she might not have had to worry about their reaction and could have told them about the pregancny and either aborted it or figured out a way to raise the resulting child if that was her choice. had she access to proper sexual education, she would have known how to prevent a pregnancy, thus keeping her out of the situation in the first place.

Well, Society still hasn't seen it yet, and its been getting worse. Before the 60s, girls wore long skirts, sleeved shirts, and underwear that tried to cover their private areas. Now, they wear: short shorts, thongs, midriffs, tank tops, and uggh...it just makes me sick. You can call me a 13 year old religious zealot, but I stand where I am: We have lost our ways.
yes, teh good old days when when girls got pregnant outside of marriage they went on vacations with their families for a year and came back with a new brother or sister. or when women got fired for being pregnant without getting married first and had to produce bloody sanitary napkins once a month to prove they weren't pregnant.

and there is nothing wrong with wearing skimpy clothes, i know i would much rather go swimming in a bikini than one of those suits from the 20's that must have added 50 lbs of water. furthermore, the 60s were when the micromini came out... i don't know why you picked that era to say that women were wearing ankle length skirts...

furthermore, i would like to see you be fully covered in the summer and see how you feel. a tank top and shorts or a skirt is the only way to go when it's 40C with the huimidity. do you really want women passing out everywhere from heat exhaustion because oyu have outlawed short sleeves and shorts? i really hope you grow out of this, this is the kind of stuff that makes men into abusers, the thinking that it's the fault of the women, those vile temptresses who dare be comfortable in the summer and choose what they enjoy wearing rather than wear what's demanded they wear.

I suggest that the solution to the problem is for everyone stop having an ethics/morality discussion with a FREAKING 13 YEAR OLD! His morality is based on indoctrination, not personal opinion, so there is really no point in talking with him. He isn't going to change his mind. This is the age group that buys Ashlee Simpson CD's (or in his case more like Celine Dion). Only hindsight will show him that he was just a little putz.

And miss out on perhaps the best thing in life. I feel sad for you.

Shhh... he doesn't know about alcohol yet.

I've already reached it. I have feelings towards women, but I ignore them.
Doing that is really going to fuck you up. It did that to me before I wised up.

I suggest that the solution to the problem is for everyone stop having an ethics/morality discussion with a FREAKING 13 YEAR OLD! His morality is based on indoctrination, not personal opinion, so there is really no point in talking with him. He isn't going to change his mind. This is the age group that buys Ashlee Simpson CD's (or in his case more like Celine Dion). Only hindsight will show him that he was just a little putz.
I believe that may be construed as a flame...
You'd best be careful.

Ok, reality check time Mr Holy Paradise.

If you would have just brought up this point that you don't agree with this, told us about it, your take, and left it all well and fine, that would be ok. I don't personally agree, but I would except your opinion, and probably nod my head thoughtfully a few times. But when you go off and systematically insult and drag through the mud, everything that most of the people responding to your forum believe in. When you go off like a raving lunatic over the rest of the world that isn't like your little Happy Magic Kodak Moment Jesus-Loving God Fearing Uber-Christian world, I feel the need to step in.

Your forum post here is called "News That Might Sicken You". A very accurate title. I came here, thinking I'm probably going to hear about Guantanamo Bay or the Marine who shot the guy in the mosque (Yes, I said Mosque, a satanic word to you I bet). But no. It was still news to me, and very sickening.

I learned that there are elitist, cruel, ignorant, ethnocentic whackjobs out in the world that still feel the need to point out the slightest imperfection in society. People who are worried that anything that might not fit into "their way" might somehow indirectly affect them, or disturb their aura of peace. Hypocrites.

Some of these people will look at the camera and say "Jesus loves everyone" and then turn away and say "Except for you, you, you, you, and you". People who go on about how we need more love in the world, then turn to a homosexual couple and tell them that their love is bad and not exceptable, and try to keep them from expressing it. People who beg for school prayer, and then take a leak on evolution. People who say "We should help everyone in our community and extend open hands.", then make someone who made one little mistake, like having sex when she maybe shouldn't have, and degrade them, and make examples of them, and twist them, and use their stories to push their agendas and beliefs on to others, and make them feel so awful about themselves, that they would do whatever it took to hide that one mistake.

If you ever meet this poor girl, this girl who's story you abuse just to try to make a point, apologize. You apologize to her, for not only using her story, but for being part of the collective shout that made her decide to try to get rid of her baby.Okay, listen, Jesus does love that girl. He loves everyone, and that includes gays, atheists, etc. And no, mosque isn't a satanic word to me. Islam is a religion that focuses on love, compassion, and friendship, its just about 5% of it is comprisied of nutjobs, and that's the % I don't like. But Jesus loves them. And yes, the military abuse is also sickening news and I am very pissed at those who participated in it. The Marine shooting the guy that was more instinct then hatred. He made a gut reflex, like many do.

His morality is based on indoctrination, not personal opinion, so there is really no point in talking with him.

Yeah, but maybe he can be persuaded to think for himself, instead of trying to draw "good" and "evil" lines all over the place.

And, I'll still ignore them.
Wait, why?
I didn't think Christianity condemned that.
Or are you a member of another religion?

Can't stay ahead of the posts, each time I post theres a new page :P

I know what you mean, 4 minutes later, your post is now like 4 pages behind the edge of this topic.

WHEN WILL IT END!?!?

Maybe we could band together and buy him two boxes of post-it notes for his birthday; Green ones for good, and red for evil?

www.churchofeuthanasia.org/snuffit4/eatfetus.jpg
whats the story here? :confused:

whats the story here? :confused:
I was responding to another picture that was posted. It was about gay fetuses, so I thought this picture was appropriate.

I don't want to have sex until I get married! I want to be a good person! I don't want to have sex yet! I'd rather eat dog shit, literally, then give up my virginity before marriage.

Not having sex until you have a stable relationship is sensible. Especially if you are a woman. Using birth control is also always very sensible.

Not having sex until marriage on the other hand, is not the smartest thing you can do in my opinion. That way you are making a massive commitment to someone whom you do not know in an important intimate way.

I'd never marry anyone I haven't slept with. Sure you can't garantuee a marriage will last ever. But the more you know what you are getting into... the more chance that it can.

And miss out on perhaps the best thing in life. I feel sad for you.

I have heard many people say that they wish they had waited. I have never heard anybody say they wish they hadn't.

Anyway, if you wait until you are married, you get all of the benefits of sex, but all of the negative aspects disappear. Further, if you ever plan on getting married, you are more than twice as likely to get a divorce if you don't wait until you are married.

I suggest that the solution to the problem is for everyone stop having an ethics/morality discussion with a FREAKING 13 YEAR OLD! His morality is based on indoctrination, not personal opinion, so there is really no point in talking with him. He isn't going to change his mind. This is the age group that buys Ashlee Simpson CD's (or in his case more like Celine Dion). Only hindsight will show him that he was just a little putz.
That's Right anyone who is under 18 has no original thoughts at all.
End Sarcasm... What is up with you? :sniper:
And By The Way no one is young enough to buy an Ashlee Simpson Cd

I don't want to have sex until I get married! I want to be a good person! I don't want to have sex yet! I'd rather eat dog shit, literally, then give up my virginity before marriage.
well, unless there's something especially orgasmic about dog shit, i don't think it can beat sex.

and also, i would like to point out that when i was 13 i thought i would remain a virgin until i got married.

let me tell you, those thinkings do change. and don't give me any "oh, well i'm attracted to girls now and i don't want to have sex with them" as well, boys mature slower than girls, so it's perfectly reasonable that you just haven't got to that age yet. and also, i'm pretty sure everyone here had crushes before they thought of it coming to sex. hell, when i was 7 i had a crush on the boy hwo lived behind me. i didn't want to have sex with him, same thing throughout junior high and halfway through highschool... though it became a matter of wanting to make out with said people and be touched... it was late in my highschool carreer that i even seriously thought about the possibility of having sex and wasn't until university that i did it.

but believe me, your thoughts on the subject will change unless you plan on sinking into denial and possible religious fervour.

Okay, listen, Jesus does love that girl. He loves everyone, and that includes gays, atheists, etc. And no, mosque isn't a satanic word to me. Islam is a religion that focuses on love, compassion, and friendship, its just about 5% of it is comprisied of nutjobs, and that's the % I don't like. But Jesus loves them. And yes, the military abuse is also sickening news and I am very pissed at those who participated in it. The Marine shooting the guy that was more instinct then hatred. He made a gut reflex, like many do.

Wow, look at you, just a reply machine aren't you. Oh. Wait. You didn't really address any of the main points, you just kind of took potshots at a few of the other things I said. If you don't mind, could you take another crack at replying. You can fit it in with a few questions here.

1) Where did you hear the story?
2) What sect of Christianity are you?
3) What is your weekly church routine?
4) Who in all of this is going to heaven? To hell? (Include me, please) Why?
5) Where are you getting your justification from?

I have heard many people say that they wish they had waited. I have never heard anybody say they wish they hadn't.

Anyway, if you wait until you are married, you get all of the benefits of sex, but all of the negative aspects disappear. Further, if you ever plan on getting married, you are more than twice as likely to get a divorce if you don't wait until you are married.
What if you find you've married someone who doesn't please you in bed? What if you are lousy at making love because you haven't had experience and therefore can't please your wife? What if you never find the right person to marry and end up marrying out of desperation for sex or just remain celibate all your life?

I wouldn't advise fucking anyone you meet, but some premarital sex with birth control is advisable.

The fact of the matter is this: This person, who claims to be only 13 years old is actually quoting an urban legend which first appeared on the internet some 11 years ago. The fact that it is still around is surprising to me.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/wabc_011705_babyparents.html ?

I was responding to another picture that was posted. It was about gay fetuses, so I thought this picture was appropriate.
Yeah, I liked that pic. It's nice to try to provide some humor in a tense environment. I surely relaxed me a bit. ;)

Yeah - wait a min. I'll just go and look it up in my book of rules - "morals for dummies". Oh wait - no... I have a brain and can think for myself. Yeah - it sounds like a pretty reasonable case.

Bet you're glad you have my approval. You'd probably have cried if you hadn't, right? :/

I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Holy Paradise. Please keep it to yourself as I can easily do without your approval.

I have heard many people say that they wish they had waited. I have never heard anybody say they wish they hadn't.
i have. there are people who do regret not living it up while they were young and unattached.

Anyway, if you wait until you are married, you get all of the benefits of sex, but all of the negative aspects disappear. Further, if you ever plan on getting married, you are more than twice as likely to get a divorce if you don't wait until you are married.
proof?

and also, i know that there's evidence that peopel who marry young end up divorcing more, usually people marry young because they don't want to wait for sex. they don't take into account the amount of change that happens in ones early 20s though.

Not having sex until you have a stable relationship is sensible. Especially if you are a woman. Using birth control is also always very sensible.

Not having sex until marriage on the other hand, is not the smartest thing you can do in my opinion. That way you are making a massive commitment to someone whom you do not know in an important intimate way.

I'd never marry anyone I haven't slept with. Sure you can't garantuee a marriage will last ever. But the more you know what you are getting into... the more chance that it can.

:headbang: Don't you see? Waiting guarantees that you know them better. If you date somebody for a while and you wait, you have to fill the time with something. As a result you will spend more time getting to know eachother than if you did not wait. You know eachother more intimately, not less.

I've already reached it. I have feelings towards women, but I ignore them.

You don't have to ignore them, just use common sense and your well developed sense of morality and get to know them. God willing, one day you will find one that has the same views as you and marry her.

:headbang: Don't you see? Waiting guarantees that you know them better. If you date somebody for a while and you wait, you have to fill the time with something. As a result you will spend more time getting to know eachother than if you did not wait. You know eachother more intimately, not less.
Bullshit. Just because you fuck from time to time doesn't mean you don't talk in between. If you have sex you know each other on a much more intimate level because you know each other physically as well as intellectually and emotionally. Plus the brain chemicals released after sex make bonding occur more strongly thus increasing the feeling of trust and love.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/wabc_011705_babyparents.html ?
Sadly, the media is not good at distinguishing ULs from actual events. More than one source is usually advisable.

I've already reached it. I have feelings towards women, but I ignore them.

LOL, being 28, I was about to say something really dirty here, but then I realized that you're 13. Look hon, being 13 and horny is natural, and there is no one out there who can tell you when you're ready to have sex. If you feel like saving yourself, that is very admirable and I wish you the best of luck in life, but you also have to learn how to understand the various twists and turns that life throws at people. This comes with age.

Good people often get caught in bad situations. The point is not to beat the victim like a dead horse, but to figure out why the situation happened in the first place and hopefully enact some measures to make sure the situation doesn't happen again. You are too young to be filled with so much vitriol. Please, think about it.

:headbang: Don't you see? Waiting guarantees that you know them better. If you date somebody for a while and you wait, you have to fill the time with something. As a result you will spend more time getting to know eachother than if you did not wait. You know eachother more intimately, not less.
He did say that waiting was good...
He just said that marriage has little to do with it.
At least, that's how I read it.

Isn't potato salad Great? :D :) ;) :confused: :eek: :p

Sadly, the media is not good at distinguishing ULs from actual events. More than one source is usually advisable.
I believe it was in the Post...take it as you will.

i know that there's evidence that peopel who marry young end up divorcing more, usually people marry young because they don't want to wait for sex. they don't take into account the amount of change that happens in ones early 20s though.

Statistics do say getting married young contributes to divorce, but you logic is flawed. The young couples that are getting divorced are the ones that did not wait. Those are the ones who hurried up and got married before the baby came. I know a lot of couples who got married young and all of the ones who waited are still married. Many of the others are now divorced.

This is shaping up to be another >100 page monster thread like "Why homosexuals are a negative influence..."
Oh Goddess above, not another one of these.
:D

wow, wha aheated discussion. Here's my personal (christian) Beliefs and feelings on the issue.

It doesn;t have a soul until it can prove to me it's sapient (capable of intelligent thought)

Abotion is a line I'd rather not cross, but it's okay in many situations.

every day, hundreds of babies are killed in China simply because they are female or born to parents who already have a child. I don't hear you screaming and typing with big text at the Chinese, what's the deal? Is it because the Chinese don't have souls? is it because you hate them? (If you think you're a christian and you hate anything or anybody then you better reconsider your religion) is it because you can't do anything about it (If you think that then you should shut up right now and take debate and plan on majoring in either economics or political science 'cause getting elected president of the Fing United States of America is the only way you'll even stand a fraction of a shadow of a chance of changing it here and until you at least take a course in debate you won't even have that much of a chance 'cause voters don't listen to thirteen year olds whose best argument is 'prove that it doesn't')?

BTW the story is an urban legend, been hearing it for years. Look it up, it's been around since the fourteen hundreds or so, ever hear the saying 'threw the baby out with the wash water'? same story.

the pick of the dead fetus is a fake, the features are wrong for a fetus in the first trimester

gahr wts is wrong with you people?? :headbang:headshot liberals :sniper:

What is so bad about religion? Why are you bashing morals? All religions really have the same morals.
no, religions have very different morals.

take the kama sutra for instance. do you see that being written for christians? hint: it has threesomes and same sex couplings... i.e. i don't think so.
do you see tantric sex being promoted in a religion that promotes sex for reproductive purposes?

similarly, do you see hindhus saying that only their gods are right and all others will suffer as a result of their ignorance/defiance of the hindhu gods? do you see christians doing that?

how many religious systems consider digging up the bones of one's ancestor to clean them once a year a moral thing to do?

there are some common threads, the so called golden rule for instance, is found in nearly every religion, but that's really common sense. be nice to people because chances are, you want people to be nice to you.

The rest of what you said was well put and I more or less agree with it, but this I would like clarified. What about something someone does to themself? If I commit suicide, is it not wrong because I didn't violate anyone elses rights? Or any other act perpetrated on ones self, like abuse of a drug or self-mutilation? I see what you said as a very liberal view of rights and what is right and wrong, so I was wondering if that is how you meant it?

Well, I am a very liberal individual. My political compass puts me somewhere kinder than Ghandi, so that's pretty left. To answer your question honestly, I must say that I am not 100% clear either. People have spent their whole lives philosophising about better ways to make legal/ethical decisions, so I won't pretend that my ideas have all the answers.

However.... This guideline is better applied to laws than to personal ethics, however it can still be used. IMHO acts that affect you and only you are not generally wrong - i.e. recreational drug use, sexuality, etc. The act should be stopped if you are hurting yourself because of mental illness or an inability to think clearly. For example, suicide because of depression is probably not the right course of action. That individual should be treated. Once again IMO things like euthanasia is okay if the person who wants it is sane and truly understands what the decision would mean.

As a general rule, I believe that people should have the most civil rights possible that still allow a functioning society.

I tend to agree with the people who have said this is an urban myth, as I have heard similar tales in the past. All without any sources to back them up.

But even if true, there is one thing that seems to have been missed (and I will apologize if this has been mentioned, but I only read 8-10 pages of the thread before I realised it was growing faster than I could read it.), and that is the girl involved is a child. Its all well and good to say she should have done this, or should have known that, but at 13 she is only just out of childhood, and barely a teenager. She can hardly be expected to have the maturity, knowlege and responsibility to handle something as serious as the situation she found herself in at that tender age. Not all children/teens mature at the same rate. I don't think its very fair to judge her actions, without knowing a lot more about her and her home situation.

As to what girls wear today, thats just fashion, which changes all the time. I remember my father cracking a mental in the late 70s (I was 15 or so) when he first saw me in a ankle length skirt and V necked t-shirt, because a minute part of my bust could be seen.

Statistics also show that I am the greatest lover the world has seen since the 15th century, but I just don't go throwing all these "facts" and "information" do I?

What happened to good ol' ignorant slander and baseless argumentativeness... oh yeah, a few pages back. :D

That's Right anyone who is under 18 has no original thoughts at all.
End Sarcasm... What is up with you? :sniper:
And By The Way no one is young enough to buy an Ashlee Simpson Cd

My theory about how many pop CDs get sold is that they make the cd's burn them and count it as a sale. Or better yet, they never make them and report a random big number to make the group sound popular.

In other news, the chocolate ration this month is up 5 grams to 60 grams...

Statistics do say getting married young contributes to divorce, but you logic is flawed. The young couples that are getting divorced are the ones that did not wait. Those are the ones who hurried up and got married before the baby came.
not m any people do that. there is much less of a stigma in getting married after having the baby and many brides would rather not have to refit their wedding gown 30 times before getting married.

I know a lot of couples who got married young and all of the ones who waited are still married. Many of the others are now divorced.
and that is your anecdotal evidence. give me some stats. (from non-chrstian kinds of sources... a lack of bias would be good)

The only legal moral is such.

You cannot interfere with someone else's rights.

Of course, someone's "rights" is up to debate.

HOW IN THE WORLD IS THIS NOT MURDER?!
http://img100.exs.cx/img100/1257/murder9bb.jpg (WARNING: not for the sqeamish!)
THIS IS DEFINITELY MURDER!!!!

Nice! Took a little bit of croping to remove all of that "Abortion is Bad" stuff but it looks nice, kind makes me hungry.

gahr wts is wrong with you people?? :headbang:headshot liberals :sniper:
That would be a flame.
Please refrain from posting messages such as this. People may get angry and try to report you to the moderators.

gahr wts is wrong with you people?? :headbang:headshot liberals :sniper:
How...

Constructive.

Unless you want me to respond to you in kind, in which case...

DUrRrr! yoU r t3h stoOPif!!1! :sniper: :sniper:

This is shaping up to be another >100 page monster thread like "Why homosexuals are a negative influence..." It probably won't that big
the only reason The ole homo thread got so huge so fast is because it was sooo very offensive

You had an OK argument before you got into the skit part.

My theory about how many pop CDs get sold is that they make the cd's burn them and count it as a sale. Or better yet, they never make them and report a random big number to make the group sound popular.

In other news, the chocolate ration this month is up 5 grams to 60 grams...


Peace is War
Freedom is Slavery
Pop Music is good
Ignorace is Strength

Ahhh. the list of impossible paradoxes....

How I love 1984. It's like my favorite book. Way to go Mr. Commies, way to go.

gahr wts is wrong with you people?? :headbang:headshot liberals :sniper:


Why do you think killing "liberals" is a good demonstration of the "conversative" point of view? Which is worse, aborting a child before it's had a chance to grow up, or killing said child when they grow up enough for you to dislike what they say?

That's always perplexed me about fundamentalist and conservative Christians: their obsession with whom they deem "innocent" is retarded. In a sense, abortion is more merciful in some cases than letting a child grow up in misery and pain, watching it ruined by its circumstances, then killing it when it's old enough to commit crimes after being ruined. If it's a black child, it'll be even more likely to be put on death row (in the United States).

Are you jealous that some children are taken back to heaven before they even have to be at the starting gate of this life...?

I'm Christian, and I would never choose an abortion unless my life was threatened or the child was already dead in my womb. I have taken responsibility for my actions in the way I see fit. I would also never say what is right or wrong for another person. God's pretty clear on the fact that His will is the rule of law...but human beings cannot speak for God. Therefore, I don't.

Stop headshooting "liberals" and THINK for once about your views. Some so-called "liberals" need to do the same. If you're thinking, then your views are valid.

Ge-Ren

i'm looking for hard stats, it's hard with all the christian pages everywhere preaching...

i did find this one that explains how cohabitation and premarital sex does not influence the divorce rate unless the people were severely sleeping around before marriage...

http://www.careerjournal.com/columnists/workfamily/20040423-workfamily.html

looking for more.

My theory about how many pop CDs get sold is that they make the cd's burn them and count it as a sale. Or better yet, they never make them and report a random big number to make the group sound popular.

In other news, the chocolate ration this month is up 5 grams to 60 grams...
Okay... BTW thanks for reminding me about the chocolate bar in my jacket.
(insert Random Word)

Why do you think killing "liberals" is a good demonstration of the "conversative" point of view? Which is worse, aborting a child before it's had a chance to grow up, or killing said child when they grow up enough for you to dislike what they say?

That's always perplexed me about fundamentalist and conservative Christians: their obsession with whom they deem "innocent" is retarded. In a sense, abortion is more merciful in some cases than letting a child grow up in misery and pain, watching it ruined by its circumstances, then killing it when it's old enough to commit crimes after being ruined. If it's a black child, it'll be even more likely to be put on death row (in the United States).

Are you jealous that some children are taken back to heaven before they even have to be at the starting gate of this life...?

I'm Christian, and I would never choose an abortion unless my life was threatened or the child was already dead in my womb. I have taken responsibility for my actions in the way I see fit. I would also never say what is right or wrong for another person. God's pretty clear on the fact that His will is the rule of law...but human beings cannot speak for God. Therefore, I don't.

Stop headshooting "liberals" and THINK for once about your views. Some so-called "liberals" need to do the same. If you're thinking, then your views are valid.

Ge-Ren


-Stands Up, applauds until hands bleed-

With words, you :mp5: 'ed the :sniper: .

Peace is War
Freedom is Slavery
Pop Music is good
Ignorace is Strength

Ahhh. the list of impossible paradoxes....

How I love 1984. It's like my favorite book. Way to go Mr. Commies, way to go.

Sometimes I fear that someday a US president will read that book and think its a good idea and impliment some of the ideas.

Yeah, I think its a really great book, but/because the end is so depressing and beautifully poetic.

P.S.-- The soul is there once the zygote is formed.
so identical twins share a soul?

and chimeric persons have two souls?

that seems odd to me.