NationStates Jolt Archive

Well it looks like 40K is the winner.

In a fleet on fleet battle I think the Empire under Papaltine would win. But for ground forces you can not beat Astarties, or a greater demon of Khorne.

Without thier pressious Q Star Trek are whooped so bad its embarrrassing. The Imperium of Man would probably tear the Alpha Quadrant to bits before Star Fleet knew what happened.

Both Star Trek and SW rely more on fleet based combat, you can have the best ground forces in the universe but if you can not land them its pointless. Its like the Spanish Armadas of the 17th centuary, had they landed the troops they would of won, but superior English ships/tactics and nasty storms destroyed the fleets before they could threaten the English coast. 40K is more about land based actions, which are unlikly to occur in the scale they do with genocidal leaders and the planet killer weapons all [40K] sides have. But again I would point out that the SW Empire do have tanks, and they are quite nasty.

40K ships are impressive, but the diffculties with travel could allow the Empire to gang up on them and then move out before reinforcements arrived.

Would you rather have another tedium argument about evolution?
It's good to argue about silly stuff sometime.

And calling an worldwide industry like WH 40K, cult science fiction series that genereta millions of revenues each year through all the products, conventions and advertising "crap" is rather narrow-minded.
Actually the industry is Games workshop (a division of Citadel Minatures), 40K is just one of their product ranges.

But damn right!

Yeah im siding with that Whippydom guy. You guys must have ABSOLUTELY no social life if you have nothing better to do than argue about series and stuff. Personally I enjoy Star Wars and their games but Im not going to come here and argue with other online people becuase thats a losing battle right there. Every arguemment that you've been in about whats best have either you or the other person come to an agreement??? NO. If you guys are willing go into such depth about something no one will change their view on anything so just shut up and stop bitching about everything. I don't see what there is to bitch about just buy everything from all three of those groups and say that they're all good. Don't say to yourself that it will cost too much money cus its your parents cash. Don't even bother posting a reply cus the forums issues are updated every hour and my life doesn't include looking for past topics in the search. Ya know I really have started to go on a ramble here...

Some faulty assumptions here-

Why do you assume that these posts would take anymore time or energy to make than your own? Glass houses, my friend. You yourself are on an internet forum arguing whether or not people should be arguing. Now really, who spinning their wheels?

Why do you think the goal is to change anyones mind? Presumption we care that much. It's all speculation, no one is trying to do anything other than have some fun with a ridiculous debate. You need to lighten up.

Why do you assume that our parents are free wheeling and buying us crap? You must be a spoiled child. Must be where the bratty attitude comes from. Presumption of age as well.

And no, I'm not going to telegram your ass about this. Jesus christ, get over yourself.

You must be a really fucking boring person if you spend your time scolding people on how they spend theirs.

Omg... You guys actually bother arguing about this kind of crap?
You have way too much spare time on your hands...

HC Eredivisie, lol. ;)
You too champ

What about temporal warfare? I'm not sure about the other two, but the Federation has timeships doesn't it? Seems that would give them a pretty big advantage. Also, The Q can travel in time and the Wormhole Prophets don't even exist in linear time itself.

What about temporal warfare? I'm not sure about the other two, but the Federation has timeships doesn't it? Seems that would give them a pretty big advantage. Also, The Q can travel in time and the Wormhole Prophets don't even exist in linear time itself.
The timeships are from the future and the forces of chaos are also beyond the constraints of time I belive.

From what I've seen all of WH40K's seeming invincibilty comes from all the psychic and utterly insane notions of marines that can survive through 10,000 years of combat and immortal people. That's the WH40K universe, but it's hugely unfair to both ST and SW. It doesn't matter what kind of superior tactics or technology the opponent has when you can put one immortal dude to fight of an entire army at his leisure.

So lets even the odds a bit. Who would win sans psychinc/force powers and witout invincible hordes of infinite demons?

I still vote for SW for my previously mentioned reasons.

From what I've seen all of WH40K's seeming invincibilty comes from all the psychic and utterly insane notions of marines that can survive through 10,000 years of combat and immortal people. That's the WH40K universe, but it's hugely unfair to both ST and SW. It doesn't matter what kind of superior tactics or technology the opponent has when you can put one immortal dude to fight of an entire army at his leisure.

So lets even the odds a bit. Who would win sans psychinc/force powers and witout invincible hordes of infinite demons?

I still vote for SW for my previously mentioned reasons.

Under such conditions I also believe that SW would win, based simply on superior fleet dynamics.

The timeships are from the future and the forces of chaos are also beyond the constraints of time I belive.
You would be correct, ships lost in the warp have appeared ealier then they entered, surely Tzeentch could do such a feat at will.

Under such conditions I also believe that SW would win, based simply on superior fleet dynamics.
superiof fleet dynamics?, all the rebels have are a coupla capital ships and some fighters and the imperials cant even fly aound in space without smashing into themselves.

[QUOTE=Xessmithia] utterly insane notions of marines that can survive through 10,000 years of combat and immortal people.

the marines survive becaure they are repeatidly cloned and biult upon.
also relitivity voyages from fyling around everywhere.

superiof fleet dynamics?, all the rebels have are a coupla capital ships and some fighters and the imperials cant even fly aound in space without smashing into themselves.

The Executor only crashes into the Death Star because its bridge is taken out. Whilst this is a weakness its the only time as far as I know that Imperial vessels collide. Yes the Rebels are small, but the Imperium would be doing most of the fighting.

SW ships have better communications and speed than 40K ships. SW ships could amass and over whelm a 40K fleet before retreating, then striking again somewhere else. It would be like a space based gureilla campaign, strike then retreat. Whilst the Imperium of man has vast shipyards so does the Empire of Papaltine, which because of a more modile fleet can be better defended than 40K type ones. An important adantage in an attrituanal war.

Though in all fairness 40K is more what one might term 'a power game'. Whilst from a game play point of view the points system evens things out, your Space Marine force would be massively outnumbered by my Ork horde for example. With such a scenario the side whoms authors made them the toughtest would win, and thats 40K.

Heres a question to satisfy curiosity, how would a Darktropper fare against a Marine from Warhammer

[QUOTE=Xessmithia] utterly insane notions of marines that can survive through 10,000 years of combat and immortal people.

the marines survive becaure they are repeatidly cloned and biult upon.
also relitivity voyages from fyling around everywhere.
The "normal" marines aren't clones but geneticaly engineered superhumans, they live to around 500 as a basic max though some have lived longer this is due to both the warp travel effects and the gene treatments. The ones that live for 10000 are Chaos marines residing in the warp out side of the effects of normal spacetime.

Anyway I think the 40K fleets would win due to firepower and durability, the smaller ships are about the size of a Star Destroyer.

Star Trek. More powerful weapons, more planets. But it would be a close three way tie.

Star Trek. More powerful weapons, more planets. But it would be a close three way tie.
How does Star Trek Have more planets? it and 40K are both set in this Galaxy.

Star Trek. More powerful weapons, more planets. But it would be a close three way tie.

A fail to see why weapons could be deemed more powerful. It is accepted that both 40K and SW capital ships have the ability to devestate whole planets very quickly. Aside from a few vessels in ST this is not done. In ESB we see an ISD simply blast its way through an asteroid field, atomimising the astroides as it goes, not the sort of thing you can do with poncy phasers.

Both 40K and SW ships have proper shields, not like ST were they just absord a portion of the energy. Whilst the Elder do not have shields - IIRC - they have stelath tech, which is like having a perminant cloak, only they can still fire with it on. And fire with weapons more powerful than ST could dream off.

The only advantage ST ships have is they are more manoverable and faster - without FTL type travel - in normal space.

Face it ST fans your only option is to submit to the will of the dark side and togeather end this distructive conflict...

Both of you need to calm down and stop this completely off-topic flame war right now. It just makes you both look ridiculous.

Hmmm....Touché. But the telegram part you had wrong I added that cus I wanted to how far someone wanted to reply to my post. Your point is clear with only a few errors. Im not going to point out spelling and grammar since thats a waste of time and its just a forum so spell however the way you want. I do have one issue with you reffering to me a "spoiled brat which explains where the bratty attitude comes from" but that just shows how ignorant you are to make a guess about someone whom you don't even know or a "presumption of age as you called it". I bet I can guess shitloads of things about your life that will be correct just by the way you handled your response and I believe the slapped repeatedly phrase came up if you responded on here..Nice to know you cared to spend the time responding to me but youre rather fortunate that this topic arose on the panel otherwise you would have wasted your time. For the record note that Im not a spoiled brat, i said stop bitching about that cus a majority of all kids get the money from their parents buy the shit and complain about it. If you want to see so yourself try to remember the last time you actually earned cash yourself and for more proof go down to Target or some other store and nearly every single kid getting a game thats paid for by their parents. Sounds odd you're thinking maybe I never got gifts wrong well actually I still do being a kid but lets take when Halo 2 came out for example thousands of people were disappointed about the Campaign mode of the game so they go about complaining from the Bungie forums even to the extent of creating sites about it which is going to far. I seem to be over reacting about a game but I do play Xbox live and I often hear whiny little 10 year old bitches who haven't even hit puberty yet bitching about a game that they didn't even buy themselves. So next time you call me a spoiled brat ya dumb retarded ass bitch maybe you should read and try to actually think of what I meant. Damn I got deep in this topic...yeah............
Wow there, little shaver. Now who's got too much time on thier hands, hmm?

You've got some anger issues to work out. You might want to see someone about that.

I think one thing you should learn about the internet-it's not all twelve year olds. You never know who you are talking to.

Going off what you've wrote you still seem like a brat to me. Sorry slugger. What I might suggest doing is lightening up. Maybe even saving your little rants for the right topic, since the subject here is 40K, Star Wars, and Star Trek and not Halo 2.

In the meantime, the rest of us have things called 'imaginations' and 'senses of humor,' and occasionally we like to take them for a walk, stretch thier legs. It keeps us from being joyless husks who critisize what others do on the internet. So if you don't mind....

Dutch eh?? Wow aren't you a proud little chap. Next time your sorry ass country is over run by NAZIS in a war tell that to the American GI's who always end up saving your dumbass troops that can only form a "resistance" but yet require the aid of numerous nations to help win the smallest of battles. By the way what the hell is your country going to be called this era?
Dude, you give us Amricans bad names no flaming

Waaaaaaagh!

I put my money on Staw Wars winning the war because of it's fleet tactics. They would probably lose overall in any ground engagement but in orbit they would clean house. ISD's are much more powerful than most people believe, with over 200 heavy weapon emplacements. And the Empire has 25,000 in its attack fleet. They most likely have much more, not to mention several super-capital ships which can easily take on whole fleets of equally powerful SW craft or the Death Stars. I think that after a few losing engagements on the ground the Empire would simply take to wiping out any space forces and simply destroying the planet with the DS or performing a BDZ.

And with the SW hyperdrive capapble of 50 million times light-speed they have the ability to choose their engagements. An absolutely huge advantage. They could do hit and run attacks with the Death Star. They show up in orbit, vape the planet then leave. The Death Stars could easily survive such an operation against even heavy oposition. They're the size of small moons and capapble destroying planets.

I put my money on Staw Wars winning the war because of it's fleet tactics. They would probably lose overall in any ground engagement but in orbit they would clean house. ISD's are much more powerful than most people believe, with over 200 heavy weapon emplacements. And the Empire has 25,000 in its attack fleet. They most likely have much more, not to mention several super-capital ships which can easily take on whole fleets of equally powerful SW craft or the Death Stars. I think that after a few losing engagements on the ground the Empire would simply take to wiping out any space forces and simply destroying the planet with the DS or performing a BDZ.

And with the SW hyperdrive capapble of 50 million times light-speed they have the ability to choose their engagements. An absolutely huge advantage. They could do hit and run attacks with the Death Star. They show up in orbit, vape the planet then leave. The Death Stars could easily survive such an operation against even heavy oposition. They're the size of small moons and capapble destroying planets.
And I repeat the Imperiums SMALLEst crusers and such are the size of ISD and just as heavily armed. And lightning raids like that won't always work since it is often far to dangerouse to enter systems that way to to the gravity fields involved.

And I repeat the Imperiums SMALLEst crusers and such are the size of ISD and just as heavily armed. And lightning raids like that won't always work since it is often far to dangerouse to enter systems that way to to the gravity fields involved.

The ISD is the Empire's standard vessel. It's not some exceedingly special vessel.

And SW has been navigating hyperspace for tens of thousands of years. I think they know how to take into account for a planet's gravity. Not to mention that the Death Star's Superlaser has an extremely long range. Alderaan was destroyed from at least geo-synchronos orbit. At that distance gravity is negligble.

The ISD is the Empire's standard vessel. It's not some exceedingly special vessel.

And SW has been navigating hyperspace for tens of thousands of years. I think they know how to take into account for a planet's gravity. Not to mention that the Death Star's Superlaser has an extremely long range. Alderaan was destroyed from at least geo-synchronos orbit. At that distance gravity is negligble.
No, their not your right, but the Imperiums standered ships are around the size of the Empires biggest, the Eclipse I belive.

The ISD is the Empire's standard vessel. It's not some exceedingly special vessel.

And SW has been navigating hyperspace for tens of thousands of years. I think they know how to take into account for a planet's gravity. Not to mention that the Death Star's Superlaser has an extremely long range. Alderaan was destroyed from at least geo-synchronos orbit. At that distance gravity is negligble.
No their not your right, but the Imperiums standered ships are around the size of the Empires biggest, the Eclipse I belive.

OK so I just skipped to the end, way to many nerds posting way to much. Plus I am a selfish fool who doesn't care about anyone else's opinions :gundge:

Anyhow, I hate to say it but Warhammer 40k would win. If there are really "gods" in this game then Star Trek's BORG and Species 18427392347203748 (whatever the heck it is) would stand no chance, ALSO, Star Trek's time travel ability would go to the crap hole.

Star Wars would most likely brutally injure ST and put a minor (MINOR) dent in 40k. The reason I say this is SW has the Yuuzhan Vong, these bad boys would discover almost immediately biological weapons (I think you call them pathogens, no seriously, that word just popped into my head) that would wipe out ST's BORG and Species 308923740. Also SW's Clones, Droids, Sith, Jedi, and super ships would hold up for.... a minute maybe against 40k.

In all honest I know nothing of Warhammer 40k, so in my mind I usually debate whether Battletech, Star Wars, or Star Trek would win in an all out grudge match. BT would come very very very close, they would just fight so super defensively that hundreds (if not thousands) of SW and ST fighting stuff would go down in a glorious flame. But unfortunately, ST would win this because it has time travel. SW and BT do not have time travel :p

you might think that 40k would win but i would say Star Trek. So the 40kers crush starfleet, borg, bajorans, whatever but after that Q comes and whacks a space marine over the head with a board and repeats a billion times until the SM dies. Repeats this on everyone. Will disappear when attacked. Invincible and eternal.

Firstly, if god like beings are included. ST the universe will win hands down because there is nothing like Q. Since that is a given we should simply ignore it.

Ignoring god-like beings, 40k whips the shit of SW which whips the shit out of ST. That is the basic consesnus of webforums and groups that are *dedicated* to debating this issue. SW simply has so much more firepower and faster speeds than ST that ST gets its ass handed to it. Meanwhile 40k likewise ahs so much more power and speed than SW that SW gets its ass handed to it on a silver platter.

Star Wars would most likely brutally injure ST and put a minor (MINOR) dent in 40k. The reason I say this is SW has the Yuuzhan Vong, these bad boys would discover almost immediately biological weapons (I think you call them pathogens, no seriously, that word just popped into my head) that would wipe out ST's BORG and Species 308923740. Also SW's Clones, Droids, Sith, Jedi, and super ships would hold up for.... a minute maybe against 40k.

In all honest I know nothing of Warhammer 40k, so in my mind I usually debate whether Battletech, Star Wars, or Star Trek would win in an all out grudge match. BT would come very very very close, they would just fight so super defensively that hundreds (if not thousands) of SW and ST fighting stuff would go down in a glorious flame. But unfortunately, ST would win this because it has time travel. SW and BT do not have time travel :p
Okay, I said this before but I respect not wanting to wade through everything for it-
As big a fan as I am of Battletech, I don't thing that there is a sci-fi setting that couldn't wipe out the Battletech universe. They can't restock or rebuild and they can't rebuild jumpships. They are a society in severe decline, which is what made Battletech so cool, that scavenger culture. But in Star Wars and Star Trek, they can rebuild. Battletech can't.

So I do think that Battletech would win the first few battles in lightening raids to preserve resources, but once someone tagged a jumpship and watched them freak out over it, it's pretty much all over.

But I am glad to see some Battletech fans out there. Cool.

(I'm old school, I don't truck with no clans....)

Sheer size, while important, isn't the end all and be all of fleet combat. Tactics has a lot to do with it to. And as far as I can tell, SW has tactics that beat the crap out of WH40K. From what I've seen Warhammer's tactics can be described as various takes on the frontal charge. The Empire, especially with leaders like Grand Admiral Thrawn, would tacticly kick Warhammer's collective ass.

And the Imperium of Man is large you say, well so is the Galactic Empire. It spans the entire SW galaxy, which is larger than the Milky Way. They have over a million systems under their control and thousands of trillions of citizens. They managed to build 25,000 ISD's and 2 Death Stars, which are in and of themselves the equivalent of millions of ships, in 20 years.

From what I've seen, the massive fleets and what not of WH40K has been built up over tens of thousands of years. The Empire did the same in 20. My money still lies with the Empire.

Cannot think of a name, I sure hope that's your name otherwise I feel like an idiot replying to you.

Anyhow yeah I like BattleTech tons, its (1)honor, (2)dynamics (as in, FedCom, Lyran Alliance, DC, what is that crazy government wedged between the FC and the Rasalag gov?) (3) realistic storyline, well anyways to me. (4) no supernatural involved, (5) no aliens.

Unfortunately BT would not stand a chance against any other universe for to long. Long enough to gain tons of honor and bragging rights tho :gundge:

I grew up on Mechwarrior 2, Netmech, and then years later became involved with Battletech 3025. Personally, I enjoy the clans involvement, but there is so much wrong with them. (bad philosophy and over-abundance of crusaders).

Cannot think of a name, I sure hope that's your name otherwise I feel like an idiot replying to you.

Anyhow yeah I like BattleTech tons, its (1)honor, (2)dynamics (as in, FedCom, Lyran Alliance, DC, what is that crazy government wedged between the FC and the Rasalag gov?) (3) realistic storyline, well anyways to me. (4) no supernatural involved, (5) no aliens.

Unfortunately BT would not stand a chance against any other universe for to long. Long enough to gain tons of honor and bragging rights tho :gundge:

I grew up on Mechwarrior 2, Netmech, and then years later became involved with Battletech 3025. Personally, I enjoy the clans involvement, but there is so much wrong with them. (bad philosophy and over-abundance of crusaders).
Yeah, that's my name or lack there of. You can just put CToaN, it's easier.

Yeah, they'd get taken out pretty quick. Like I said, though, I'm old school-so old school that my first game was Battledroids, that's the first edition of the table top game. So I have issues with the clans in that crazy old man on the porch kinda way. I played the simulator versions once at a Virtual World in the brief seconds that that place existed, but otherwise have not had much truck with the videogames, but a fan is a fan and I salute you.

EDIT: I was going to put that group in here but then I forgot-it's like House of Laos, but I don't think that's it. I always liked them because they had short mans complex being next to the Federated Suns, startin' shit and then going "Don't hit me."

hahahah yeah, I know what your talking about. They were the only government that saw their leader as also a spiritual leader, that is what was so crazy/weird about them.

I also read tons of BT books too :p

hahahah yeah, I know what your talking about. They were the only government that saw their leader as also a spiritual leader, that is what was so crazy/weird about them.

I also read tons of BT books too :p
I only read the ones that had fencing metaphors as titles, they where pretty good. Well, I read them in High School.....so, they where good to me then....

Firstly, if god like beings are included. ST the universe will win hands down because there is nothing like Q. Since that is a given we should simply ignore it.
But I still say the Chaos Gods and the GEoM can give him a nasty fight and win.

Ignoring god-like beings, 40k whips the shit of SW which whips the shit out of ST. That is the basic consesnus of webforums and groups that are *dedicated* to debating this issue. SW simply has so much more firepower and faster speeds than ST that ST gets its ass handed to it. Meanwhile 40k likewise ahs so much more power and speed than SW that SW gets its ass handed to it on a silver platter.
I beg to differ on that last part. WH40K's warp FTL capability is actually slower than hyperspace by a good margin, plus there's the problem of reliability due to the random daemons waiting to eat your souls, not to mention that it's not very consistent in it's speed. You could feel like travelling weeks, when you actually end up years or centuries apart.

Hyperspace is reliable, faster, has fewer dangers, and is consistent.

On the issue of power...I hate to do this, but I must bring out the AOTC Incredible Cross Sections.
Acclaimator-class heavy assault ships have turbolasers with a top firepower of 200 gigatons per shot and shielding that can dissipate 16 teratons per second. And this is a troop transport/ground assault ship! By the way, those turbolasers are actually considered Medium turbolasers on an Imperial-class Star Destroyer. So you can get an idea of how much firepower would be required to defeat a Star Destroyer force-on-force.

Firstly, if god like beings are included. ST the universe will win hands down because there is nothing like Q. Since that is a given we should simply ignore it.

Ignoring god-like beings, 40k whips the shit of SW which whips the shit out of ST. That is the basic consesnus of webforums and groups that are *dedicated* to debating this issue. SW simply has so much more firepower and faster speeds than ST that ST gets its ass handed to it. Meanwhile 40k likewise ahs so much more power and speed than SW that SW gets its ass handed to it on a silver platter.
40K has quite a few godlike beings.

40k has a strong reliance on Laser/Kinetic weaponry, which certainly ST type shielding has no problems with. WH40K does have huge numbers on it's side and Snacky weaponry, especially if we're looking at everyone as a whole.

If we're assuming that everyone in those continuities is joining forces, the Star Wars will look a bit weak. However, Star Trek has forwarded enough races of god-like entities to keep WH40k occupied for ages.

The Q alone, on a battle footing, could cause some serious damage. The Borg's adaptive technologies, which were constantly thwarted by enemies with frequency-variable energy weapons, could happily decimate rank & file troops of any nature in the 40k continuity. With the possible exception of (Of all races) the Orcs, whose equipment is hardly standard anyway.

WOW. 291 replies on this thread. I think that these debates alone has helped me make up my mind on whether or not I should add on more navy ships the G.E.H. Store Front.

By a show of "hands" please state whether you would like to see 40k added on, or Star Trek added on. I already have all of the Imperial Ships (or, at least most of them, including the super, sovereign, and eclipse class star destroyers), so I most likely won't add more Imperial stuff on, unless someone mentions a ship that I don't have (no rebel technology, it's not that X-wings or V-wings suck, I'm just sticking to the "Bad Guy" technology).

40k has a strong reliance on Laser/Kinetic weaponry, which certainly ST type shielding has no problems with. WH40K does have huge numbers on it's side and Snacky weaponry, especially if we're looking at everyone as a whole.
What if said laser weapon was say...2 gigatons? Do you think ST shields could stand up to them?

If we're assuming that everyone in those continuities is joining forces, the Star Wars will look a bit weak. However, Star Trek has forwarded enough races of god-like entities to keep WH40k occupied for ages.
Ok.

The Q alone, on a battle footing, could cause some serious damage. The Borg's adaptive technologies, which were constantly thwarted by enemies with frequency-variable energy weapons, could happily decimate rank & file troops of any nature in the 40k continuity. With the possible exception of (Of all races) the Orcs, whose equipment is hardly standard anyway.
:rolleyes: Oh please. What part of overwhelming firepower and Kinetic Energy weapons (Ie, projectiles like bolters and chainswords) defeats Borg adaptive technologies don't you understand? They CANNOT adapt to kinetic energy and more firepower than they could handle! Besides, the Borg are slow, lumbering cyber-zombies that even Boy Scouts with rifles could defeat! How the heck do you expect them to defeat Space Marines that are often considered to be walking tanks?!

Does anybody know anything about the Force? It has the ability to destroy an entire planet. The Dark Lord (WTF, I can never remember his name. Does anybody who played KOTOR2 remember his name?) had destroyed an entire planet at his mere thought and killed off most of the Jedi council. The Jedi couldn't even detect him using the force. This guy is a realy bad@$$, well trained in the Dark Arts.

What if said laser weapon was say...2 gigatons? Do you think ST shields could stand up to them?


Ok.


:rolleyes: Oh please. What part of overwhelming firepower and Kinetic Energy weapons (Ie, projectiles like bolters and chainswords) defeats Borg adaptive technologies don't you understand? They CANNOT adapt to kinetic energy and more firepower than they could handle! Besides, the Borg are slow, lumbering cyber-zombies that even Boy Scouts with rifles could defeat! How the heck do you expect them to defeat Space Marines that are often considered to be walking tanks?!


There is absolutely no evidence that the Borg couldn't adapt to kenetic energy weapons and a great deal of evidence that suggests that they can. If they souldn't adapt to a rifle bullet don't you think that Starfleet would start mass producing rifles?

As for the stoping power of ST shields, remember that they are designed to deflect debris when the ship is traveling FTL. The destructive energy of an FLT impact with even a grain of sand would be enormous.

Ha!Borg CANNOT adapt to kinetic weapons. Remember First Contact?Picard uses a machinegun to kill some borg.

There is absolutely no evidence that the Borg couldn't adapt to kenetic energy weapons and a great deal of evidence that suggests that they can. If they souldn't adapt to a rifle bullet don't you think that Starfleet would start mass producing rifles?
Show me the evidence, please. Show me evidence that Borg shields could adapt to something that is not frequency-modulated, but depends on brute force to do it's work. As I recall, there was an episode where ST crew did use bullets (even holodeck-made ones!) and killed Borg with them.

As for the stoping power of ST shields, remember that they are designed to deflect debris when the ship is traveling FTL. The destructive energy of an FLT impact with even a grain of sand would be enormous.
So? Consider that the highest amount of firepower usually thrown about by ST ships is high megaton/low gigaton range. Then consider that both WH40K and SW throw around high gigaton-level weapons with ease and it still takes several volleys of broadsides to down their shields and destroy the larger capships.

Farscape would win.

Farscape would win.
Now that, I could agree with! :p

Show me the evidence, please. Show me evidence that Borg shields could adapt to something that is not frequency-modulated, but depends on brute force to do it's work. As I recall, there was an episode where ST crew did use bullets (even holodeck-made ones!) and killed Borg with them.


The problem with that assumption is that holographic bullets are frequency modulated force fields. They just appear to be bullets. The Borg's shields didn't stop them because they had not adapeted yet.
The Borg are probably vulnerable to hand to hand combat, as shields sesigned to stop stords and bludgeons would make it impossible for the Borg to interact with their enviroment.

The real question is this one: how badly would the Airlia or the Swarm kick the asses of all involved parties?

Ouch.

I'm a massive SW fanboy, but I have to admit that a single mothership would be able to easily take on several Imperator Class Star Destroyers, maybe even an Executor class.

Don't get me started on Swarm Battlecores. It would simply roll over most anything you threw at it. When you take into consideration the fact that the Swarm has an unspecified large number of them, all filled to the brim with Airlian Mothership sized Swarm ships...

The real question is this one: how badly would the Airlia or the Swarm kick the asses of all involved parties?

Ouch.

I'm a massive SW fanboy, but I have to admit that a single mothership would be able to easily take on several Imperator Class Star Destroyers, maybe even an Executor class.

Don't get me started on Swarm Battlecores. It would simply roll over most anything you threw at it. When you take into consideration the fact that the Swarm has an unspecified large number of them, all filled to the brim with Airlian Mothership sized Swarm ships...

The "Executor" Class Star Destroyer I beleive you are refering to is actualy the Super Class Star Destroyer. Anyways, what if the Airlian Motherships were to take on the Sovereign Class Stardestroyer or the Eclipse Class Star Destroyer (the bigger and more heavly armed Command Ships built by the Imperials). By the way, I have all of the Imperial Heavy Ships, which includes the Imperator Class Star Destroyer 1-3, as well as the Dominator Class Star Destroyer available on my store front (the G.E.H. Military Store Front).

The problem with that assumption is that holographic bullets are frequency modulated force fields. They just appear to be bullets. The Borg's shields didn't stop them because they had not adapeted yet.
The Borg are probably vulnerable to hand to hand combat, as shields sesigned to stop stords and bludgeons would make it impossible for the Borg to interact with their enviroment.
That's why I have my trusty lightsaber! :p

That's why I have my trusty lightsaber! :p

Dude, Lightsabers RULE!! Do you use double blades, or two single blades?

40K they are more advanced than star trek and star wars!! although the clones might pose a problem for gaurd...not for SMurfs tho!

Not really. 40K is actually losing technology, since creativity and innovation are repressed. Star Wars is the more advanced one of the two, just from weapon output, industrial potential, and ship size. They also have a much faster FTL system.

I'd honestly bet on Star Wars if it was just SW vs the Imperium. Their FTL advantage would let them move into systems and engage defenses before reinforcements could be summoned, then disappear again.

However, since this is vs the entire 40K universe, there's also the C'tan and Necrons to take into account, and the Chaos Gods. It's a bit trickier then.

The "Executor" Class Star Destroyer I beleive you are refering to is actualy the Super Class Star Destroyer.

Except it's actually Executor, since classes are named after the first ship produced, and there was no warship named Super.

Except it's actually Executor, since classes are named after the first ship produced, and there was no warship named Super.
I think your thinking of Star Trek.

Why the hell is Star Trek even included in this?

Their weapons are only megaton range, and their ships are pitiful excuses of engineering. They have no redundancy, over-centralization of command and control, and far too weakly shielded and armored to stand up to 40k or SW.

Their capability to produce warships is laughable compared to the industrial centers of Star Wars and 40k. Kuat is practically one huge shipyard, Mars in 40k is ringed by dockyards and manufacturies IIRC, and what does the Federation have? A pitiful grouping of construction scaffolds. The Borg wouldn't even be a threat, since their weapons are also only megaton range. Here's a hint, you can only adapt to something if you survive it. If all it takes to kill a cube is one shot from a turbolaser, they're going to run out of ships long before they come up with a decent defense.

The only thing they can bring to the table are the Godlike beings like Q. Otherwise their only hope for survival is not to attract the attention of SW or 40K.

Except it's actually Executor, since classes are named after the first ship produced, and there was no warship named Super.

The Galactic Empire NEVER used the same ship naming rules as the Federation in ST did, nor the way the US does in real life. The SUPER Class Star Destroyer is included in the star wars technical books, and websites that include statistics for the Super Class Star Destroyer. The Clas is definitly NOT executor. The empire's ships also don't have a regestry number either, like the way the Federation and the US does.

Why the hell is Star Trek even included in this?

Their weapons are only megaton range, and their ships are pitiful excuses of engineering. They have no redundancy, over-centralization of command and control, and far too weakly shielded and armored to stand up to 40k or SW.

Their capability to produce warships is laughable compared to the industrial centers of Star Wars and 40k. Kuat is practically one huge shipyard, Mars in 40k is ringed by dockyards and manufacturies IIRC, and what does the Federation have? A pitiful grouping of construction scaffolds. The Borg wouldn't even be a threat, since their weapons are also only megaton range. Here's a hint, you can only adapt to something if you survive it. If all it takes to kill a cube is one shot from a turbolaser, they're going to run out of ships long before they come up with a decent defense.

The only thing they can bring to the table are the Godlike beings like Q. Otherwise their only hope for survival is not to attract the attention of SW or 40K.

In the ancient times, (5,000 years before the fall of Anikan Skywalker)
the Sith had the Star Forge, wich alowed them to create an infinite amount of ships so they could conquer the Old Republic, depending on the side of the story you choosed in KOTOR, the Star Forge was either Successfull, and defeated the republic, or it failed, and was blown up just like the Death Star.

In the ancient times, (5,000 years before the fall of Anikan Skywalker)
the Sith had the Star Forge, wich alowed them to create an infinite amount of ships so they could conquer the Old Republic, depending on the side of the story you choosed in KOTOR, the Star Forge was either Successfull, and defeated the republic, or it failed, and was blown up just like the Death Star.
Can we bring up the past, if so 40K has the Emperor and the Primarchs

21 pages? No thanks. 5 in, and it was already kinda bogging down...

Ah well, I'll just answer the topic question. Star Trek, Q, his many friends, and that's all I'll say for now.

Off Topic EDIT:
Huntaer, did you recieve my TG?

21 pages? No thanks. 5 in, and it was already kinda bogging down...

Ah well, I'll just answer the topic question. Star Trek, Q and his many friends, and that's all I'll say for now.

Off Topic EDIT:
Huntaer, did you recieve my TG?
My respones is the Same as before Q ccould be hanled by the Chaos gods, Emperor, and C'Tan.

Can we bring up the past, if so 40K has the Emperor and the Primarchs

If we do, then SW would have one of the first of the REAL sith lords (unlike the Pansies that came before them) such as Ajunta Pall, Tulak Hord, Qordis,
Simus, Markus Ragnos, Naja Shadow, and Exar Kun. The Finnal one that I mentioned, Exar Kun, later on came back to life as a Sith Apparation (a ghost, like Obi-wan did with Luke) and was able to inhabit a Jedi student under the teachings of Luke Skywalker and stole the Sun Crusher, and used it to Ahnialate an entire SYSTEM. That would be like destroying our sun and everything else up to Pluto!! Talk about Bad@$$ man! Then there is the "New/Old" Sith Lord (who's name I still can't remember, anyone who does??? he's the guy who wears the white mask) in KOTOR 2 where he had the ability to ahnialate a planet. To quote Vader "Don't be to proud of this technological terror you have constructed. The ability to destroy a planet, is insignificant, next to the power of the Force."

Something like what that ancient sith lord did is what Vader was refering to. The Sith don't need a Death Star. They could use a ship as small as an escape pod to destroy a planet.

Originally Posted by The Psyker VTwoPointOh
My respones is the Same as before Q ccould be hanled by the Chaos gods, Emperor, and C'Tan.

But there's also more than one Q... :(

The Galactic Empire NEVER used the same ship naming rules as the Federation in ST did

Who said anything about ST? I'm going with how every navy in reality has named it's classes.

nor the way the US does in real life

LMAO. You want to bet on that?

South Carolina class
South Carolina (BB 26)
Michigan (BB 27)

Delaware class
Delaware (BB 28)
North Dakota (BB 29)

Florida class
Florida (BB 30)
Utah (BB 31)

Wyoming class
Wyoming (BB 32)
Arkansas (BB 33)

New York class
New York (BB 34)
Texas (BB 35)

Nevada class
Nevada (BB 36)
Oklahoma (BB 37)

Pennsylvania class
Pennsylvania (BB 38)
Arizona (BB 39)

Oh looky there. Each class is named after the first ship produced. Consider yourself schooled.

The SUPER Class Star Destroyer is included in the star wars technical books, and websites that include statistics for the Super Class Star Destroyer.


Low canon, and to quote Vympel, from a Star Wars forum.


The common thing to say when you see a Star Destroyer is just to say it's an Imperial Star Destroyer. It is- the Empire owns it. However, the fuckwits at WEG took it upon themselves to say this was the *class* as well. That's just fucking moronic. Imperator is the class, Imperial is just slang. It also fits exactly with Acclamator, Mandator, Procurator and Executor (that's why Dr. Saxton used those names in the ICS). I for one will never say "Imperial-class". I don't say "Japanese-class" submarine either.

Hm. So the Victory class SDs are named after the Victory, the Acclamator's are named after the Acclamator, same with the Mandator and Procurator classes, but yet the Empire is going to name it's top of the line command ship, "super", and ignore existing tradition and common sense, not to mention sounding really, really, idiotic?

The Clas is definitly NOT executor. The empire's ships also don't have a regestry number either, like the way the Federation and the US does.

Who said anything about registry numbers? I sure didn't.

If we do, then SW would have one of the first of the REAL sith lords (unlike the Pansies that came before them) such as Ajunta Pall, Tulak Hord, Qordis,
Simus, Markus Ragnos, Naja Shadow, and Exar Kun. The Finnal one that I mentioned, Exar Kun, later on came back to life as a Sith Apparation (a ghost, like Obi-wan did with Luke) and was able to inhabit a Jedi student under the teachings of Luke Skywalker and stole the Sun Crusher, and used it to Ahnialate an entire SYSTEM. That would be like destroying our sun and everything else up to Pluto!! Talk about Bad@$$ man! Then there is the "New/Old" Sith Lord (who's name I still can't remember, anyone who does??? he's the guy who wears the white mask) in KOTOR 2 where he had the ability to ahnialate a planet. To quote Vader "Don't be to proud of this technological terror you have constructed. The ability to destroy a planet, is insignificant, next to the power of the Force."

Something like what that ancient sith lord did is what Vader was refering to. The Sith don't need a Death Star. They could use a ship as small as an escape pod to destroy a planet.
Yes so the Emperor is a god in human form, his psychic beacon serves as a lighthouse to ships across the galaxy

But there's also more than one Q... :(
Which is why ST would brove a challenge, still the Chaos Gods are undestructible, a supernova will kill a Q, and the Chaos gods have innumerable hoardes of deamons.

The force can kick Captain Kirk's pasty white ass. End of story.
Warhammer 40K doesn't hold a f*cking candle to Luke Skywalker.

Edit: I know, Q and all that stuff from ST, and the main guys in 40K, but the force, man, the force!

The force can kick Captain Kirk's pasty white ass. End of story.
Warhammer 40K doesn't hold a f*cking candle to Luke Skywalker.
A Greater Deamon of Khorn would harvest Skywalkers skul for the blood God easily, he is weakened by his moral constraits and fear of going to the dark side, again.

Which is why ST would brove a challenge, still the Chaos Gods are undestructible, a supernova will kill a Q, and the Chaos gods have innumerable hoardes of deamons.

Well, just so long as ST hold at least a candle, I'm fine.
I guess you could say it's fan loyalty. ST was the first SciFi universe thing I ever go into, and I've stuck with it.

EDIT: Wow that sounds pathetic, nvm.

A Greater Deamon of Khorn would harvest Skywalkers skul for the blood God easily, he is weakened by his moral constraits and fear of going to the dark side, again.
Plus Vader has that sick Force Choke thing going... Yeah.

Plus Vader has that sick Force Choke thing going... Yeah.
How do you choke a Deamon that doesn't breath.

How do you choke a Deamon that doesn't breath.

I guess you don't, he'll just have to crush his head or something...

I guess you don't, he'll just have to crush his head or something...
Thus bainishing him back to the warp from which he could return. Not to mention thru that act of bloodleting feeding and strengthening his parent god Khorn.

Thus bainishing him back to the warp from which he could return. Not to mention thru that act of bloodleting feeding and strengthening his parent god Khorn.

Is there no end to the counters?

Is there no end to the counters?
When dealing with undestructible demonic entities probably not.

The "Executor" Class Star Destroyer I beleive you are refering to is actualy the Super Class Star Destroyer. Anyways, what if the Airlian Motherships were to take on the Sovereign Class Stardestroyer or the Eclipse Class Star Destroyer (the bigger and more heavly armed Command Ships built by the Imperials). By the way, I have all of the Imperial Heavy Ships, which includes the Imperator Class Star Destroyer 1-3, as well as the Dominator Class Star Destroyer available on my store front (the G.E.H. Military Store Front).

Well, to be fair, something tells me the Motherships are actually probably more civilian ships. Not entirely meaning civilians own them (Airlians probably don't HAVE civilians, their entire existance for millions of years has been their inter-galactic war against the Swarm), but they are not military ships. I mean, they have Talons on them for protection, and the beam that destroyed Atlantis was probably having more to do with contruction than actual weaponry.

Not to mention that, if they really wanted to compete with the Swarm's Battlecores, they'd need something at least remotely similar, meaning they probably have another ship, a real military ship, that could handle pretty much anything, literally, except for a Swarm Battlecore, of course.

I mean, when we're talking about ships roughly the size of planets, suddenly the meager 140 some km of the Death Star II doesn't seem so threatening. Of course, the Empire did demonstrate the ability to build ships as large as small planets, but they were no doubt very expensive and very hard to produce. I'm sure they could compete with a Swarm Battlecore or the Airlian equivilant should they gather together a large enough number of them. Let's just hope Airlian electromagnetic weaponry doesn't have a big brother, though, 'cause then pretty much anything would be toast.

I'm going to add a new level of nerd in pointing out why 40k would win:

40k is a game playing setting that is set up to allow for as much expansion and adaptability of play as possible, including 'kit bashing' pieces, while Star Wars and Star Trek are narrative universes that, while games exist, they are set up for a narrative theme and are thusly limited. So by the characteristics of the settings base medium, 40k has an unwarranted advantage.

Which is why ST would brove a challenge, still the Chaos Gods are undestructible, a supernova will kill a Q, and the Chaos gods have innumerable hoardes of deamons.

Can you cite an episode on that? I only remember two episodes (both Voyager) that involve the death of a Q. In one, the Q chose to become mortal and cimmited suicide. In another, the Q were fighting each other with magical superwaepons that resembled Nepolianic muskets.

Sans all the supernatural elements (C'Tan, Q, The Force)

40k has the tech, numbers, and patience to crush ST and SW.

Star Trek's ONLY advantage is that it has extremely fast, reliable ships that could outmaneucer 40k ans SW ships easily. What would take months for a 40k ship and weeks for a SW one would only take a few days at most for a ST one - WITHOUT any Warp dangers. However, this can't help them TOO much, since all that can really do is help them perform hit-and-run strikes on other vessels. I mean, jeez, the colonists in the old episodes never even had any weapons! Also, the races were never very unified. The Empire had a more or less unified galaxy under control, and the Imperium had a sizeable portion with a stronger industrial base than SW. Star Trek's Federation was a loose alliance of races with varying degrees of sophistication.

if 40k and SW had to duke it out, it might be a draw. Strong army vs a strong fleet.

Jesus fucking christ. I don't even play 40k (my friend does) I don't like Star Wars. and I haven't seen a star trek episode for at least six months.

Also, the AT-AT - None of these races have anything that could trip it, which seems to be it's only weakness.


i found that quote

I have three words for you...
Emperor class Titan

I'm going to add a new level of nerd in pointing out why 40k would win:

40k is a game playing setting that is set up to allow for as much expansion and adaptability of play as possible, including 'kit bashing' pieces, while Star Wars and Star Trek are narrative universes that, while games exist, they are set up for a narrative theme and are thusly limited. So by the characteristics of the settings base medium, 40k has an unwarranted advantage.Very good point. Also, 40K is a game of superlatives - everything is enormous, in millions and carry real big laser guns. The other settings at least tries to be somewhat realistic in numbers and sizes.

Can you cite an episode on that? I only remember two episodes (both Voyager) that involve the death of a Q. In one, the Q chose to become mortal and cimmited suicide. In another, the Q were fighting each other with magical superwaepons that resembled Nepolianic muskets.
The one with the Q using the musks is the episode I'm talking about effects they had in the real world were supernovas.

Who said anything about ST? I'm going with how every navy in reality has named it's classes.



LMAO. You want to bet on that?

South Carolina class
South Carolina (BB 26)
Michigan (BB 27)

Delaware class
Delaware (BB 28)
North Dakota (BB 29)

Florida class
Florida (BB 30)
Utah (BB 31)

Wyoming class
Wyoming (BB 32)
Arkansas (BB 33)

New York class
New York (BB 34)
Texas (BB 35)

Nevada class
Nevada (BB 36)
Oklahoma (BB 37)

Pennsylvania class
Pennsylvania (BB 38)
Arizona (BB 39)

Oh looky there. Each class is named after the first ship produced. Consider yourself schooled.




Low canon, and to quote Vympel, from a Star Wars forum.



Hm. So the Victory class SDs are named after the Victory, the Acclamator's are named after the Acclamator, same with the Mandator and Procurator classes, but yet the Empire is going to name it's top of the line command ship, "super", and ignore existing tradition and common sense, not to mention sounding really, really, idiotic?



Who said anything about registry numbers? I sure didn't.

*Ahem* note that all of the ships you listed aren't Imperial ships. The Super Class Star Destroyer is still the super class star destroyer. All of the SW card games called it the Super Class Star Destroyer, These websites called it the Super Class Star Destroyer :

http://s92427916.onlinehome.us/coruscanttheimperialcenter/superstardestroyer.html

http://www.2ndfleet.org/executor/main.html

This is the OFFICIAL star wars WEBSITE result for SUPER star destroyer:
http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/superstardestroyer/index.html

the official star wars magazine: INSIDER called it the Super Class Star Destroyer. And to chalange you even further, here is a quote from admral ackabar: "We got to give those fighters more time. Concentrate all fire power on that SUPER star destroyer." Did he say EXECUTOR star destroyer? NO!! Dare to chalange me any more?

Another thing, I have to say that the top of the line command ships would be the Sovereign Class Star Destroyer and the Eclipse Class Star Destroyer because they have planet ahnialating weapons.

The only way to know of these ships would be if you read the comic books, or if you read the novels.

*Ahem* note that all of the ships you listed aren't Imperial ships. The Super Class Star Destroyer is still the super class star destroyer. All of the SW card games called it the Super Class Star Destroyer, These websites called it the Super Class Star Destroyer :

http://s92427916.onlinehome.us/coruscanttheimperialcenter/superstardestroyer.html

http://www.2ndfleet.org/executor/main.html

This is the OFFICIAL star wars WEBSITE result for SUPER star destroyer:
http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/superstardestroyer/index.html

the official star wars magazine: INSIDER called it the Super Class Star Destroyer. And to chalange you even further, here is a quote from admral ackabar: "We got to give those fighters more time. Concentrate all fire power on that SUPER star destroyer." Did he say EXECUTOR star destroyer? NO!! Dare to chalange me any more?

Another thing, I have to say that the top of the line command ships would be the Sovereign Class Star Destroyer and the Eclipse Class Star Destroyer because they have planet ahnialating weapons.

The only way to know of these ships would be if you read the comic books, or if you read the novels.
Whic books are the Sovereign class in

Whic books are the Sovereign class in

I'm honistly not sure which books, but if you do a google image search for Sovereign Class Star Destroyer (use exact words), you will find a page taken from a comic book that featured the Sovereign Class.

Why the hell is Star Trek even included in this?

Their weapons are only megaton range, and their ships are pitiful excuses of engineering. They have no redundancy, over-centralization of command and control, and far too weakly shielded and armored to stand up to 40k or SW.

Their capability to produce warships is laughable compared to the industrial centers of Star Wars and 40k. Kuat is practically one huge shipyard, Mars in 40k is ringed by dockyards and manufacturies IIRC, and what does the Federation have? A pitiful grouping of construction scaffolds. The Borg wouldn't even be a threat, since their weapons are also only megaton range. Here's a hint, you can only adapt to something if you survive it. If all it takes to kill a cube is one shot from a turbolaser, they're going to run out of ships long before they come up with a decent defense.

The only thing they can bring to the table are the Godlike beings like Q. Otherwise their only hope for survival is not to attract the attention of SW or 40K.

No, the Borg can adapt to anything that kills one of their brethern. Every Borg in a fleet is linked to every other, when one is killed all other adapt to the weapon.

As for the power of ST weapons, they use less energy but they use it much more efficiently. Phasers and Disrutors negate the strong and weak nuclear forces, casuing their targets to fall apart at an atomic level. THey have much less energy output compared to Star Wars weapons, but a single handheld phaser can disintegrate a large building.

The real danger, however, is the borg assimilating some of those WH40K immortal unkillable demons. Adding their biological uniqueness to the collective would make the Borg pretty much invincible.

The Psyker VTwoPointOh,
Ignore what I posted before, I just tried the google search. It didn't come up. If I do find some info on what books it's in, I'll post it up ASAP.

The Psyker VTwoPointOh,
Ignore what I posted before, I just tried the google search. It didn't come up. If I do find some info on what books it's in, I'll post it up ASAP.
Thats alright I tried it to and found some neat info on them if not a name for a source. Seeing as how there was info roleplaying info they might come from one of the roleplaying games.

No, the Borg can adapt to anything that kills one of their brethern. Every Borg in a fleet is linked to every other, when one is killed all other adapt to the weapon.

As for the power of ST weapons, they use less energy but they use it much more efficiently. Phasers and Disrutors negate the strong and weak nuclear forces, casuing their targets to fall apart at an atomic level. THey have much less energy output compared to Star Wars weapons, but a single handheld phaser can disintegrate a large building.

The real danger, however, is the borg assimilating some of those WH40K immortal unkillable demons. Adding their biological uniqueness to the collective would make the Borg pretty much invincible.
THey are deamons their made up of warp energy their is nothing biological to assimilate.

No, the Borg can adapt to anything that kills one of their brethern. Every Borg in a fleet is linked to every other, when one is killed all other adapt to the weapon.

No limits fallacy. The borg are not going to be able to instantly "adapt" to 200 gigatons of energy instantly immolating a cube. Borg shield generators are not magically going to increase in output a full order of magnitude, nor will they be able to respond in kind.

As for the power of ST weapons, they use less energy but they use it much more efficiently.

Doesn't matter how efficient it is, it's still outgunned on a massive scale.

Phasers and Disrutors negate the strong and weak nuclear forces, casuing their targets to fall apart at an atomic level. THey have much less energy output compared to Star Wars weapons

Same reply as I said above.

but a single handheld phaser can disintegrate a large building.

Where was this demonstrated?

The real danger, however, is the borg assimilating some of those WH40K immortal unkillable demons. Adding their biological uniqueness to the collective would make the Borg pretty much invincible.

Not really. Just the simple matter of figuring out how to reproduce the advantages that a demon possesses, not to mention the limitations of existing units and ships, is going to really slow that down.

It's like having a closet full of goodies, and then trying to wedge a supercomputer in there. It's not going to happen unless you increase the closet size, and that takes time and resources.

Thats alright I tried it to and found some neat info on them if not a name for a source. Seeing as how there was info roleplaying info they might come from one of the roleplaying games.

If you have any other questions about the ships of the imperial fleet, the G.E.H. Military Store Front has several sites you could look at for more info.

If you have any other questions about the ships of the imperial fleet, the G.E.H. Military Store Front has several sites you could look at for more info.
You keep mentioning that place I've never heard of it before is it a comic book store?

No limits fallacy. The borg are not going to be able to instantly "adapt" to 200 gigatons of energy instantly immolating a cube. Borg shield generators are not magically going to increase in output a full order of magnitude, nor will they be able to respond in kind.



Doesn't matter how efficient it is, it's still outgunned on a massive scale.



Same reply as I said above.



Where was this demonstrated?



Not really. Just the simple matter of figuring out how to reproduce the advantages that a demon possesses, not to mention the limitations of existing units and ships, is going to really slow that down.

It's like having a closet full of goodies, and then trying to wedge a supercomputer in there. It's not going to happen unless you increase the closet size, and that takes time and resources.

Eventhough Verni and I have had our disagreements, I have to agree with him with this. The borg would be overwhelmed with the 200 gigatons of energy which would instantly destroy the cube. They would TOTALY be overwhelmed if they went against all of the Super Weapons and Species from 40k, not to mention the borg would try to assimilate people from star wars and they would have to go against the Yuusong vong, the Sith and Jedi (which they would have a hard time to adapt due to the fact that the Force isn't technology), and all of the super weapons that SW has to offer (I.E. :Sun Crusher).

You keep mentioning that place I've never heard of it before is it a comic book store?

NO NO NO. It's my Future Tech. Store front. It has links to practicly all of the imperial ships that the Empire created (excluding the Death Star, and the Sun Crusher).

By the way, could you please put a "." at the end of a sentence? It can be hard to figure out what you're saying at times.

E.X. : You keep mentioning that place. I've necer heard of it before. Is it a comic book store?

No limits fallacy. The borg are not going to be able to instantly "adapt" to 200 gigatons of energy instantly immolating a cube. Borg shield generators are not magically going to increase in output a full order of magnitude, nor will they be able to respond in kind.



Doesn't matter how efficient it is, it's still outgunned on a massive scale.



Same reply as I said above.



Where was this demonstrated?



Not really. Just the simple matter of figuring out how to reproduce the advantages that a demon possesses, not to mention the limitations of existing units and ships, is going to really slow that down.

It's like having a closet full of goodies, and then trying to wedge a supercomputer in there. It's not going to happen unless you increase the closet size, and that takes time and resources.

from http://www.st-v-sw.net/

"Frame of Mind"[TNG6] . . . Riker sets his phaser to maximum (setting 16), on a wide field, and comments that it should destroy half the building.

As for the Borg ability to assimilate 40k demons, they are nothing if not patient. They'll take as long as it takes. They won't ever extend themselves and they won't fight a battle untill they are ready.



Of course, there is also the transporter to worry about. Any Star Trek ship could just transport a bomb abourd an imperial ship. It only took two anti-fighter torpedos down an exaust vent to take out a Death Star. Imperial ships are fairly vulnerable when their armor can be bypassed. More importantly, transporters worked when cloaked.

from http://www.st-v-sw.net/



As for the Borg ability to assimilate 40k demons, they are nothing if not patient. They'll take as long as it takes. They won't ever extend themselves and they won't fight a battle untill they are ready.



Of course, there is also the transporter to worry about. Any Star Trek ship could just transport a bomb abourd an imperial ship. It only took two anti-fighter torpedos down an exaust vent to take out a Death Star. Imperial ships are fairly vulnerable when their armor can be bypassed. More importantly, transporters worked when cloaked.

Not excatly, it could, nay, it WILL be difficult (if not impossible) to transport a bomb onto a ship you don't even have the cordinates of. Cloaked ships are indetectable, unless you have a betazoid on board to detect a mind to find where the ship is, which I don't think there are enough betazoids to go around.

Not excatly, it could, nay, it WILL be difficult (if not impossible) to transport a bomb onto a ship you don't even have the cordinates of. Cloaked ships are indetectable, unless you have a betazoid on board to detect a mind to find where the ship is, which I don't think there are enough betazoids to go around.

Of course, that's why you cloak their ship and attack your enemy's unprepared visable ships and drydocks.

NO NO NO. It's my Future Tech. Store front. It has links to practicly all of the imperial ships that the Empire created (excluding the Death Star, and the Sun Crusher).

By the way, could you please put a "." at the end of a sentence? It can be hard to figure out what you're saying at times.

E.X. : You keep mentioning that place. I've necer heard of it before. Is it a comic book store?
Sorry, some times I'm thinking faster than I can type and I forget to put in the punctuation. Any how, that sounds interesting. Could you provide a link, please?

from http://www.st-v-sw.net/

You've honestly just made me laugh. You seriously just cited Darkstar's page as a reference? I'll address the quote, but I wouldn't really use the site for any serious vs. debate.

Quote:
"Frame of Mind"[TNG6] . . . Riker sets his phaser to maximum (setting 16), on a wide field, and comments that it should destroy half the building.

There's a difference between this and your earlier comment of "disintegrate a building", destroy can be widely interpreted. It could simply remove a large chunk from it and let the building's own weight finish itself off.

As for the Borg ability to assimilate 40k demons, they are nothing if not patient. They'll take as long as it takes. They won't ever extend themselves and they won't fight a battle untill they are ready.

Not that they're competent or even deadly.


Of course, there is also the transporter to worry about. Any Star Trek ship could just transport a bomb abourd an imperial ship.

Except Imperial ships have shields, which block transporters. For that matter, the armor probably would as well, considering how thick and dense it is. Transporters are one of the most easily screwed up technologies in ST there is. Remember all the times some atmospheric storm would screw them up? Or naturally occurring metals in caves preventing locks. Then there's ECM to worry about, that'd definitely screw around with their targetting systems.

It only took two anti-fighter torpedos down an exaust vent to take out a Death Star.

Fallacy, those torpedoes exploited a design flaw, and didn't actually destroy the Death Star. They just took out the hypermatter reactor, that explosion was what destroyed the station.

Imperial ships are fairly vulnerable when their armor can be bypassed. More importantly, transporters worked when cloaked.

I've already addressed this point.

I've thought of some more reasons why, in a fair soldier on soldier, ship on ship fight without magic powers or unkilliable demons, the Empire would win.

First off, IE the DS II is 900 km in diamter not a measely 160. It is equivalent to millions of ships. If it were completed it would have been neigh invincible, which is why the Rebellion had to attack while it was still under construction.

The Empire's Balmoran battle droids. Forget the spindly Trade Federation, which is actually a corporation that has more power than the ST Federation, droids. Their SD-10 and X-1 Viper War Droids would lay waste to Space Marine armies, with the SD-10's fast-reaction servos, point of impact armour and slef healing metal construction and the X-1's energy absorbent armor.. And since they're droids they can me mass produced.

And it is the Executor-class and they are 17 km long not 8 or 12.

*Ahem* note that all of the ships you listed aren't Imperial ships. The Super Class Star Destroyer is still the super class star destroyer. All of the SW card games called it the Super Class Star Destroyer, These websites called it the Super Class Star Destroyer :

http://s92427916.onlinehome.us/coruscanttheimperialcenter/superstardestroyer.html

http://www.2ndfleet.org/executor/main.html

This is the OFFICIAL star wars WEBSITE result for SUPER star destroyer:
http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/superstardestroyer/index.html

the official star wars magazine: INSIDER called it the Super Class Star Destroyer. And to chalange you even further, here is a quote from admral ackabar: "We got to give those fighters more time. Concentrate all fire power on that SUPER star destroyer." Did he say EXECUTOR star destroyer? NO!! Dare to chalange me any more?

Another thing, I have to say that the top of the line command ships would be the Sovereign Class Star Destroyer and the Eclipse Class Star Destroyer because they have planet ahnialating weapons.

The only way to know of these ships would be if you read the comic books, or if you read the novels.

An in-depth analysis of all known Imperial Dagger-shaped Warships:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/dagger.html

*Ahem* note that all of the ships you listed aren't Imperial ships.

The Republic turned into the Empire. Design bureaus and the officer corps were not instantly reformed. And the name Executor goes along with KDY naming conventions, which are names that end in "-or" (Acclamator, Procurator, Mandator, Imperator, etc). The only SD that doesn't end in that is from a different company, and that's the Victory. My point is still that every class has been named after the 1st ship produced, why would the Empire suddenly humiliate their new flagship class with a retarded name? It's like a name you'd give a short-bus. "Don't worry, you're all special."

The Super Class Star Destroyer is still the super class star destroyer

Except it's not.

All of the SW card games called it the Super Class Star Destroyer

Oh please, the card game? That's even lower canon then the video games, if it's even on the scale.

These websites called it the Super Class Star Destroyer :

http://s92427916.onlinehome.us/coruscanttheimperialcenter/superstardestroyer.html

http://www.2ndfleet.org/executor/main.html[quote]

None of these are canon.

[quote]This is the OFFICIAL star wars WEBSITE result for SUPER star destroyer:
http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/superstardestroyer/index.html

They get it's length wrong.

The official star wars magazine: INSIDER called it the Super Class Star Destroyer.

Not canon.

And to chalange you even further, here is a quote from admral ackabar: "We got to give those fighters more time. Concentrate all fire power on that SUPER star destroyer." Did he say EXECUTOR star destroyer?

Actually, this doesn't help you much. Notice he does not say "Super-class".
This would be like an American captain in WWII saying "Concentrate fire on that Japanese battleship." That doesn't mean the battleship is suddenly "Japanese-class", it just means super is the type, although that still sounds really stupid.

NO!! Dare to chalange me any more?

Of course I do.

Another thing, I have to say that the top of the line command ships would be the Sovereign Class Star Destroyer and the Eclipse Class Star Destroyer because they have planet ahnialating weapons.

It was top of the line when it was first produced.

The only way to know of these ships would be if you read the comic books, or if you read the novels.

Oh yes, the comics and novels. We all know how much those screw up. Kevin J. Anderson and Darksaber anyone?

Oh yes, an interesting tidbit.

Shield of Lies, page 320 wrote:

Taggar flew a steady line as he read the reports from R2-R on his cockpit display.
IDENTIFIED: ARAMADIA-CLASS THRUSTSHIP
IDENTIFIED: ARAMADIA-CLASS THRUSTSHIP
IDENTIFIED: VICTORY-CLASS STAR DESTROYER
IDENTIFIED: ARAMADIA-CLASS THRUSTSHIP
IDENTIFIED: IMPERIAL-CLASS STAR DESTROYER
IDENTIFIED: EXECUTOR-CLASS STAR DESTROYER

The list grew longer as N'zoth grew larger ahead.

Well, at least they got it half right.

Oh yes, to quote Dr. Saxton's information on the Executor.

Executor-class star dreadnought
LENGTH:
17.6 km
MANUFACTURER:
Kuat Drive Yards
SIGHTING:
Fondor, Yavin, Hoth, Coruscant, Endor, Thyferra, Nzoth. Numerous other events.

Executor-class ships are immense mobile command platforms for the forces of the most distinguished officers of the Imperial Navy. This design is a prestige vessel, but is highly functional too. Outclasses anything available to the New Republic Navy as it was twelve years after the Battle of Endor. The total count of ships known in this class is only about a dozen at this date.

Each of the thirteen sublight thrusters is larger than an entire ship of some smaller classes of destroyers. The thrusters are arranged in three thruster banks, with the forward and middle banks divided into sub-banks under the port and starboard wings. The multi-bank design allowed the ship design to take a long, sleek profile, rather than the fatter and blunter form characterising single-bank vessels like Admiral Giel's battleship or the common Imperator-class destroyer. However the ship's flatness and the immensity of its power and propulsion systems requires that portions of the thruster cylinders protrude through the planar hull plating of the ventral surface.

The immensity of the forward and fantail docking bays (respectively about four miles and half a mile across) implies that Executors are well built to serve in a mothership role in relation to smaller capital ships. Destroyers and even some small cruisers could dock for servicing while in remoter regions of the Empire assigned to the armadas led by an Executor-class flagship.

Note: Some serious mistruths about the Executor design have been widely promulgated in other references. They include distortions of the ship's proportions; undercounting of the number of thrusters (nine as opposed to thirteen); and a statement of length (8km) which is much less than the consistent length of eleven or twelve miles shown at the Battles of Hoth and Endor.

For further information refer to Super Star Destroyers.

This is the same Dr. Saxton who wrote the SW Ep. II ICS. That book is canon unless contradicted by a movie. If any other publication or resource contradicts it, the ICS wins. Considering his rather influential status and attention to detail, I'd say he's a better resource then any site you listed.

So in the end, Star Trek gets killed if the godlike beings stay out of the fights (I notice that Q never seems to directly intervene even with the Borg and Dominion knocking on the Federation's door. Oh, sure he could tell Picard about them and did, but he never fought them directly). Then the Empire and Imperium duke it out, with massive stormtrooper casualties in the first few ground skirmishes and the smaller but more powerful Star Destroyers slightly edging out the larger Imperium ships (due to slower reaction time and unreliable FTL, if nothing else). Due to orbitial superiority, the Empire wins the day (he who wins the sky conquers the ground). Then, Chaos comes in to play...and the saga continues.

In the FILMS there are 5 types of Star Destroyer

1. 'Victory' class Mk1
2. 'Victory' class Mk2
3. 'Imperial' class Mk1
4. 'Imperial' class Mk2
5. 'Super' class Mk1 Star Destroyer, Length: 8000m

Anything different to those are not official Star Wars craft. Your 'Executor' class is an entirely different ship.

In the FILMS there are 5 types of Star Destroyer

1. 'Victory' class Mk1
2. 'Victory' class Mk2
3. 'Imperial' class Mk1
4. 'Imperial' class Mk2
5. 'Super' class Mk1 Star Destroyer, Length: 8000m

Anything different to those are not official Star Wars craft. Your 'Executor' class is an entirely different ship.

Try again. The Victorys have never appeared in film. They are EU only. And again, the film never specifically stated that the Executor was a "Super-class", they simply referred to it by the type of ship. You've also gotten the length wrong.

You also have a pretty pathetic knowledge of canon. Things that appear in books and technical guides and such are official unless a higher source contradicts them.

In the FILMS there are 5 types of Star Destroyer

1. 'Victory' class Mk1
2. 'Victory' class Mk2
3. 'Imperial' class Mk1
4. 'Imperial' class Mk2
5. 'Super' class Mk1 Star Destroyer, Length: 8000m

Anything different to those are not official Star Wars craft. Your 'Executor' class is an entirely different ship.
Actually, the length is 17.6 km. 17600m.

Here is Dr. Saxton's page on the SSD.

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ssd.html

Again, this is the man who wrote the AOTC: ICS, which gives us the 200 gigaton figure for the Acclamator's turbolasers. This man has done far more research and pays far more attention to detail then any writer I've ever seen treat SW with (completely unlike that fuckwit Kevin J. Anderson).

Not only does he refer to it as the Executor class, but he calculates out it's length. Here's part of that.


Conclusion for absolute size

If the star destroyer length is accepted as 1.6km then the Executor's length is given by the length ratios between the two ships. Observations from scenes in The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi where one ship occludes another constrain the length ratio to be within the range of 11.0 to 12.0, corresponding to an absolute range of 17.6km to 19.2km. Measurements based on the collision between Executor and Death Star II are inconclusive, because the curvature of the battle station's horizon cannot be measured with sufficient precision. A chain of geometric reasoning involving two independent Executor broadside views and the size of the sensor globes indicates lower limits of 16.2km and 18.1km. The conventions of the construction of warship models indicate a length of close to 17.2km. Direct measurements of the Executor model using the standard KDY command tower as a yardstick indicate a length of 17.6±0.2km, which is consistent with the photogrammetric methods and other approaches. I conclude that Executor-class command ships are somewhere between 17.4km and 17.9km long; and certainly much more than the mere 8km claimed by some Roleplaying Game sources.

It is to be hoped that the tragic underestimate of this warship's size which was accidentally promulgated in certain references will not be further compounded in future STAR WARS novels and reference books.

EDIT: Look at what else I found, he also addresses the name confusion.

In the movies, the Executor is only called a "star destroyer" or "super star destroyer" by characters who are under stress. Princess Leia, escaping from Bespin, was exhausted. She was never known as a naval expert anyhow. Similarly Lord Vader was deeply upset when he left Bespin, and it isn't clear whether he meant to signal Executor directly or via a true star destroyer that attended and remained off-camera. Admiral Ackbar, evidently floundering with the human language, called the ship a "super star destroyer" in the heat of battle. Calmer characters call it a "command ship," [Solo approaching Endor; Palpatine giving orders to Vader]. C-3PO [in Classic STAR WARS] says that it looks like an oversized "battlecruiser." Executor's mass and power are orders of magnitude beyond a mere destroyer. Therefore the term "super star destroyer" can only be slang, and the term "Super-class" is a corruption of slang.

There can only be a Super-class if the design's prime vessel is actually named Super. In principle there could exist a class of five- or eight-mile warships with a first member named Super, but this class would not include the Executor and it would still be inappropriate to label such ships as "destroyers."

The colloquial term "super star destroyer"should be avoided. This is not mere pedantry; the term is actually misleading. In addition to its connection with the confusion over Executor's length, the term is also applied to some vessels which clearly belong to different classes: eg. Allegiance and Eclipse in Dark Empire, which only share little more than the distinction of being slightly or greatly bigger than one-mile destroyers.

EDIT THE SECOND: For those who like to bring up the Essential Guides, I'm going to point out that those are crap. The Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels identifies the ship as "Executor", but as Super-class, but then proceeds to get the number of engines wrong, saying nine instead of thirteen, and screwing up the length as well (8 km instead of 17.6). Really, what's so hard about understanding that "Super star destroyer" is a designation of type, not class? They indentify the Eclipse as an SSD, and Akbar never actually said "super-class", he simply identified it by type. Again, to make a real world analogy, saying "Concentrate all fire on that german battleship." does not suddenly make the Bismarck a "German-class battleship."

The whole problem with Star Wars battle craft identifications is irrelevant. Remember that from the point of view of the Rebels accurate analysis of the class names of the enemy is going to be somewhat low priority compared to, say, structural weak points. The whole Imperator/Imperial class designation thing is easily explained. It probably occurs the same way that NATO used to designate Warsaw Pact units using simple easy to transmit elements of the phonetic code, or simply give them slang names. Do you think rogue squadron, in the middle of a dogfight, are yelling
"Imperator Class to port!"
"You mean Imperial class?"
"No, Imperial class has heavier shields and type four rather than type five ion drives!"
"You're thinking Victory class!"
"Sod you, you...."

Get my point?

Any way, it's doubly irrelevant. 40K owns your ass.

I have seen sources (see Huntaer's Store Front, there's a link there) that say there are a number of 17.6km SSDs, some 12.8km SSDs and some 8km SSDs. Bingo, I'm right.

And the images in the film show nine (9) engines. I'll admit the length is never given, but the film is the only true reliable source of images, and the SSD has 9 engines.

I will admit the name thing, but who said anything (including RL) has to follow naming conventions. If I want to design a ship and give it a class name (following class-name conventions, seeing as they're mine and it's fiction), then call the lead ship something completely different, then I can.

EDIT:
The Soviet Alfa-class SSN is actually known by the name of the second ship to the west, as the lead one had problems and by the time it was repaired, there were already two other vessels in service.

I have seen sources (see Huntaer's Store Front, there's a link there) that say there are a number of 17.6km SSDs, some 12.8km SSDs and some 8km SSDs. Bingo, I'm right.

The problem is those sources are flawed.


Visual representations of the Executor and its siblings vary greatly in the official literature. It is fitting that we take a look at a few painful examples and contrast them with the canonical form of the vessel, and some more careful fan-made attempts to recapture the essentials of this enigmatic design.

The Imperial Sourcebook:

ventral cavity is missing;
tower is oversized compared to ship's length;
tower is wrongly positioned behind rather than forward of the wing corners;
tower neck is truncated in the longitudinal direction;
only one bank of engines is shown;
fantail is proportionately truncated and fattened;
cortex covers a smaller fraction of the length of the dorsal hull.
It has been suggested that the erroneous WEG diagram be interpreted as if it were a completely distinct warship class, at the smaller length of 8km being a cruiser or battlecruiser. There are drawbacks to this proposal: (1) the shape of the tower neck is totally wrong for a KDY vessel; (2) the accompanying text in The Imperial Sourcebook indicates that Executor belongs to the described class. Of course, as Arhul Hextrophon acknowledged in the introduction to the Imperial Sourcebook, the entire document is biased to a rebel viewpoint and contains many errors of intelligence; therefore the two above-mentioned objections may not be insurmountable.

Essential Guide to Vehicles & Vessels

The Executor sketch from Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels shows a generically textured surface for the cortex. The choice of a dorsal view means that critical features are not visible, which minimises the scope of potential discrepencies. The forward edges of the cortex cavity are too pointed though. The schematic diagram and the text are more glaringly problematic.

a scanner globe is described as "deflector-shield dome"
command tower is too large and too high compared to the hull;
fantail is too short compared to the rest of the ship;
tower is wrongly positioned behind the wing tips;
states that there are only nine engines, rather than thirteen;l
only two banks of engines are shown;
the length error (five rather than the true eleven miles) is repeated.

And the images in the film show nine (9) engines. I'll admit the length is never given, but the film is the only true reliable source of images, and the SSD has 9 engines.

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/chron/ssdtail2.jpg

Count them.

I will admit the name thing, but who said anything (including RL) has to follow naming conventions. If I want to design a ship and give it a class name (following class-name conventions, seeing as they're mine and it's fiction), then call the lead ship something completely different, then I can.

No one did, but that's just how it is. Navies traditionally name a class of warship after the first produced.

EDIT:
The Soviet Alfa-class SSN is actually known by the name of the second ship to the west, as the lead one had problems and by the time it was repaired, there were already two other vessels in service.

Alright, so that's one exception, that doesn't overturn everything else, and the key part there is "to the West".

EDIT: You really should read Dr. Saxton's page, it's amazing with the amount of work and detail put into it.

Dr.Saxton's page is truly amazing. I love his astrophysical considerations page. I also like to browse http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/. Michael Wong makes some very good arguments. When I design my ships I try to make the compete with Imperial vessels. So far my largest ship, my 8 km monitor, has maybe twice the firepower of an ISD.

In the FILMS there are 5 types of Star Destroyer

1. 'Victory' class Mk1
2. 'Victory' class Mk2
3. 'Imperial' class Mk1
4. 'Imperial' class Mk2
5. 'Super' class Mk1 Star Destroyer, Length: 8000m

Anything different to those are not official Star Wars craft. Your 'Executor' class is an entirely different ship.

I absolutly agree. Note verni that your ship is the Executor class DREADNAUGHT, not Star Destroyer.

Verni,

If it is a slang, as your "Sources" state, then why did george lucas HIMSELF call it the Super Star Destroyer?

I absolutly agree. Note verni that your ship is the Executor class DREADNAUGHT, not Star Destroyer.

It's the exact same ship, did you not look at the pictures?

Verni,

If it is a slang, as your "Sources" state, then why did george lucas HIMSELF call it the Super Star Destroyer?

He didn't call it a super-class though did he?

Vernii, that image is not from the film though, is it?

That's the damn model.

Did you not notice all the electrical wiring toward the front? That's the model they used in the film.

Oh look, here's another image.

http://theforce.net/swtc/Pix/Xbarbican/eydc1/1r30executor.jpg

There's eight visible, and since the engine placement is symetrical, that makes it thirteen.

Obviously verni, we will never reach an agreement. Can we at least agree on these several thingst?

1) The Super/Executor star destroyer is a Huge command ship.

2) It is a sweet kickass ship.

3) In the propper hands, it would kick the rebelion's butt.

4) It has massive amounts of tie series fighters, and massive amounts cannons for protection.

5) There is no way the borg should be able to withstand this thing if is a true sith lord is on board.

Obviously verni, we will never reach an agreement. Can we at least agree on these several thingst?

1) The Super/Executor star destroyer is a Huge command ship.

2) It is a sweet kickass ship.

3) In the propper hands, it would kick the rebelion's butt.

4) It has massive amounts of tie series fighters, and massive amounts cannons for protection.

5) There is no way the borg should be able to withstand this thing if is a true sith lord is on board.

Of course. Although with number 5, there's no way they could withstand it even if there wasn't a sith lord on it.

Trek gets left by the wayside while the Imperium and the Empire duke it out. Eventually the superiority of War's hyperdrive compared to the dangers and variables of Warp travel allows the Empire a win, although it'll be bloody.

verni, just out of curiosity, do you have super/executor star destroyers in your fleet? I most defenitly do, as well as the Star Forge, Eclipse class star destroyers, and Sovereign class star destroyers. Who want's to stand up to any of those?

One last thing, how on earth did you get to the size of your military budget!?!? I've seen nations that have been on as long as you have and they don't even have that much.

Trek gets left by the wayside while the Imperium and the Empire duke it out. Eventually the superiority of War's hyperdrive compared to the dangers and variables of Warp travel allows the Empire a win, although it'll be bloody.

Most definitly bloody. Especialy on land. If the lightsabers work as the theory suggests, body parts would be all over the floor. The space marines would counter with their chain swords, causing even further blood. Lungs and Livers would be torn from the body (only if the SITH were fighting, though). HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Most definitly bloody. Especialy on land. If the lightsabers work as the theory suggests, body parts would be all over the floor. The space marines would counter with their chain swords, causing even further blood. Lungs and Livers would be torn from the body (only if the SITH were fighting, though). HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Definitly, Space Marine>>>>>>StormTrooper, I suspect that the IoM will win more land battles then lose them. The problem though is that their ships are much more slower and more prone to the difficulties of traveling in the Warp, and are weaker iirc. It was in a issue of White Dwarf when they talked about the power of an Imperial torpedo, and it came out to be ~610 gigatons (a dozen of which being enough to completely destroy a cruiser). Imperial Turbolasers are ~200 gigatons, and there are far more of them on an ISD then there are torpedos on an Imperium cruiser.

verni, just out of curiosity, do you have super/executor star destroyers in your fleet? I most defenitly do, as well as the Star Forge, Eclipse class star destroyers, and Sovereign class star destroyers. Who want's to stand up to any of those?

One last thing, how on earth did you get to the size of your military budget!?!? I've seen nations that have been on as long as you have and they don't even have that much.

Nope, I use Honorverse tech.

Anyway, with the military budget, I use NSEconomy's page for it, although I RP with my budget at considerably less, around 25% rather then 40%.

NS Economy: http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com

Definitly, Space Marine>>>>>>StormTrooper, I suspect that the IoM will win more land battles then lose them. The problem though is that their ships are much more slower and more prone to the difficulties of traveling in the Warp, and are weaker iirc. It was in a issue of White Dwarf when they talked about the power of an Imperial torpedo, and it came out to be ~610 gigatons (a dozen of which being enough to completely destroy a cruiser). Imperial Turbolasers are ~200 gigatons, and there are far more of them on an ISD then there are torpedos on an Imperium cruiser.

I would go with space marines too if it wasn't for several things.

1) Sith are much more ajile than space marines due to the fact that Sith wear robes, and space marines wear heavy, bulky armor which would slow them down in battle.

2) The Sith have a lot of killing force powers. Ex:
Force Storm, which has the ability to strike all aponents with lightning. Imagin a whole army of dark jedi using that.

Force Drain Life, it enables the user to drain life from their opponent.

Force crush, enables the user to "Crush" a person from the pressure of the force.

Force Kill, a more sinister version on what darth vader was viewed using in A New Hope, Force Kill enables the user to literally just Choke their enemy to death.

Not to mention that there are force powers a sith and jedi could use to block lasers, and the Imperium does use lasers (hence the Las-gun/)

The Sith also have the ability to jump over 100 meters in the air, which would easily dodge the Space Marines Power Sword, or Axe.

Nope, I use Honorverse tech.

Anyway, with the military budget, I use NSEconomy's page for it, although I RP with my budget at considerably less, around 25% rather then 40%.

NS Economy: http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com

huh. I use Sunset for my economy Sunset (http://www.sunsetrpg.com/nsxmlparser.php).

I would go with space marines too if it wasn't for several things.

1) Sith are much more ajile than space marines due to the fact that Sith wear robes, and space marines wear heavy, bulky armor which would slow them down in battle.

2) The Sith have a lot of killing force powers. Ex:
Force Storm, which has the ability to strike all aponents with lightning. Imagin a whole army of dark jedi using that.

Force Drain Life, it enables the user to drain life from their opponent.

Force crush, enables the user to "Crush" a person from the pressure of the force.

Force Kill, a more sinister version on what darth vader was viewed using in A New Hope, Force Kill enables the user to literally just Choke their enemy to death.

Not to mention that there are force powers a sith and jedi could use to block lasers, and the Imperium does use lasers (hence the Las-gun/)

The Sith also have the ability to jump over 100 meters in the air, which would easily dodge the Space Marines Power Sword, or Axe.

Well I was talking on a grunt level, and a Jedi Knight and Space Marine Librarian are on somewhat equal terms.

Well I was talking on a grunt level, and a Jedi Knight and Space Marine Librarian are on somewhat equal terms.

I would agree on that, but in this case, I use Sith, or Dark Jedi. Not the peace-loving Jedi *Shudders*. A sith is much more talanted in the arts of a lightsaber, sword fighting for that matter... At least, that's my opinion

*sigh* why aren't my signatures showing??

Nope, I use Honorverse tech.

Anyway, with the military budget, I use NSEconomy's page for it, although I RP with my budget at considerably less, around 25% rather then 40%.

NS Economy: http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com

Hol-ee crap. How in the name of the Emperor did you get a 23 tril budget that fast? Can I have like half of it?

Oh, and has anyone considered 40K Alpha-level Psykers yet? Can wipe out entire planets? Anybody? Anybody? Thought not. 40K wins, hands down. And if we're talking pre-heresy, the Emperor and primarchs could kick anybodies ass.

Hol-ee crap. How in the name of the Emperor did you get a 23 tril budget that fast? Can I have like half of it?

It's not that fast, I've had my nation for over a year. I just have a great economy to fund it.

Star Wars would pwn all

Over a year? Sorry, I was going by your population. You only have 400 mil... I've seen billion pop nations with less cash...

And Kerchopia, Alpha-level psykers could destroy the death-star with a twitch of his fingers. There are trillions of Imperial Guardsmen, unkillable Necrons, Orkz that breed when they die, Tyranids too numerous to count (and I can count in the trillions), millions of uber-human Space Marines, and Star Wars sword fighting could be easily countered with a good fencing style.

Space Marine armour slowing them down?

First of all, part of the Adeptus Astartes organ re-construction includes a fully integrated and enhanced neural network know as the Black Carapace. This upgrade to the human nervous system is designed to integrate with power armour with incredible efficiency as well as boosting natural reflexes to unheard of levels. The armour is literally an extension of the Marines body, moving with all of the superhuman speed and strength of the marine; indeed, using servomotors to enhance it. A Marine without his armour, say a scout sergeant, would give a sith a pretty fair fight. With his armour? Bwahahaha.

Edit: I'm assuming a hand to hand situation without weapons. Give the marine his weapons?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Star Wars has Stormtroopers, uniform-requirements and Death Stars. Star Trek has... ensigns? Please.

40K has gods, yes, but that's cheating. ;)

never heard of 40K - sounds formidable

All star trek have are 'new characters' which you know will die within the last half of the film - so they are useless. But don't forget that the Star Trek universe have the Q...

But all technology pales into insignificance when compared to the power of the force - even Darth Vader said so himself.
Also, Star Wars has Yoda. need I say more? probably

None of the characters in the three forms of geek entertainment/stories/concepts would be able to successfully conquer anything but their hands and lower regions. Nor the geeks that play the games, watch the movies, or revel in any of its associated culture. :sniper:


:mp5:

Over a year? Sorry, I was going by your population. You only have 400 mil... I've seen billion pop nations with less cash...

And Kerchopia, Alpha-level psykers could destroy the death-star with a twitch of his fingers. There are trillions of Imperial Guardsmen, unkillable Necrons, Orkz that breed when they die, Tyranids too numerous to count (and I can count in the trillions), millions of uber-human Space Marines, and Star Wars sword fighting could be easily countered with a good fencing style.

Unless of course you are wanting to make contact with a light sabre, in which case your sword, power or otherwise, would be destroyed....but other than that no arguement from me...i think 40k would win, by sheer weight of numbers.

Over a year? Sorry, I was going by your population. You only have 400 mil... I've seen billion pop nations with less cash...

And Kerchopia, Alpha-level psykers could destroy the death-star with a twitch of his fingers. There are trillions of Imperial Guardsmen, unkillable Necrons, Orkz that breed when they die, Tyranids too numerous to count (and I can count in the trillions), millions of uber-human Space Marines, and Star Wars sword fighting could be easily countered with a good fencing style.

Umm... How can you do fencing style with big clumsy chain swords, or power axes? The Space Marine's bulky armor would cause them to make only slow moves (like Darth Vader) which could easily be countered by a lightsaber. Lightsabers are much more effecient, and can cut through basicly anything. Oh yeah, did I mention much of lightsaber fighting is based upon fencing, as well as samari sword fighting?

It does'nt matter anyway, pimp daddy Kirk would just make it with all the women and all would be right with the universe.

he may have been "Pimpin"l in TOS, but later on he became old and fat, and shatner (actor of kirk) killed spock in his later books. That just ruined him... Now, he is a lawyer in a new ABC show along with the captain of the Enterprise B. WTF!?!

To all those pointing out Jedi powers, it would perhaps be intereting to cosnider that these all exist in 40K but are cosnidered minor powers (hence why they only really show up in the Inquisitor RPG) and not worth bothering with on the battlefeild when you could be using much more fun powers such as Salamander, Vortex, Purge pysker and lightning arc (think jedi lighting except it can blow up tanks).

Of course those are mainly 2nd edt 40k powers from the days when most marine armies had a cheif librarian in terminator armor runnign around on combat drugs and kill greater deamons left right and centre...

In terms of total coolness Battletech kicks every one's buts but in terms of weapons it would even have trouble agaisnt early AvP tech.

I don't know what 40k is so I'm just gonna ignore it. I have to say that I prefer Star Trek(Voyager) but I think that Star Wars would win cos of the whole Jedi thing. But an ST and SW cross over would be interesting!

40k, duh! And someone made a reference to storm-trooper armour: according to Lucas, the armour provides life-support, protection from nuclear hazard, a limited-time breathing aparatus, and all sorts of other junk.

Space Marine exo-armour allows them to survive in the void of space, in highly hazardous invironments, and will even to a limited extent protect from acid (think Tyranids.)

Also, there's no compairason [sic] between the guns. SMurfs fire rockets that detonate on impact. Stormtroopers fire silly laser-things that are so slow you can see them gently floating through the breeze.

Oh yeah, did I mention much of lightsaber fighting is based upon fencing, as well as samari sword fighting?


Well thats what they want you to think ;) In the first three it was just go and have a fight, watching the out takes on the making of, they barely had someone who had a clue of how to fight, even the guy they brought in for ESB and ROTJ was a bit crap. The new ones the fighting has improved somewhat, what with the guy who played Darth Maul being a proffesional and all. But still, the technique is shocking to watch in some of the movies...still its Star Wars hence all is forgiven! :p :D

Obviously verni, we will never reach an agreement. Can we at least agree on these several thingst?

1) The Super/Executor star destroyer is a Huge command ship.

2) It is a sweet kickass ship.

3) In the propper hands, it would kick the rebelion's butt.

4) It has massive amounts of tie series fighters, and massive amounts cannons for protection.

5) There is no way the borg should be able to withstand this thing if is a true sith lord is on board.

But all it took was one crazy A-Wing.

B'sides. Der's too many boyz fer the humies ta stomp, duzzint matter what ooniverse they's from!

But all it took was one crazy A-Wing.

B'sides. Der's too many boyz fer the humies ta stomp, duzzint matter what ooniverse they's from!

Actually it was the DS, if it hadn't run into that really big battlestation the Executor would still be kicking butt and taking names

Well thats what they want you to think ;) In the first three it was just go and have a fight, watching the out takes on the making of, they barely had someone who had a clue of how to fight, even the guy they brought in for ESB and ROTJ was a bit crap. The new ones the fighting has improved somewhat, what with the guy who played Darth Maul being a proffesional and all. But still, the technique is shocking to watch in some of the movies...still its Star Wars hence all is forgiven! :p :D

The reason why the fighting sequences for ESB and ROTJ was a bit of crap because Darth Vader was wearing armor, which slowed him down. His wimpy son was inexperienced with lightsaber fighting, making him clumsy too. If anyone who was to go against the Ancient Sith Lords (Naga Shadow, or Exar Kun for example) they would be kicked. In KOTOR 2, one of your party members, Kreia, mentions that the ancient sith lords were true lightsaber masters, and the jedi of the Old Republic in KOTOR1/2 who fought with lightsabers were like "children playing with sticks."

Actually it was the DS, if it hadn't run into that really big battlestation the Executor would still be kicking butt and taking names

Actually, the rouge A-wing did destroy the Executor. It blew up by hitting the death star, and there would be no way the Executor would be able to continue to kick butt because it was damaged beyond repair (did you notice the flames that were comming out of the bridge before it crashed into the DS 2?). One other thing, the A-wing was only able to destroy the Executor because it's 3 sheild generators were destroyed.

star trek would kick ass.

Eventhough I like star trek very much, I would still go for Star Wars. Even the borg would think twice before attacking the sun crusher.

40k, duh! And someone made a reference to storm-trooper armour: according to Lucas, the armour provides life-support, protection from nuclear hazard, a limited-time breathing aparatus, and all sorts of other junk.

Space Marine exo-armour allows them to survive in the void of space, in highly hazardous invironments, and will even to a limited extent protect from acid (think Tyranids.)

Also, there's no compairason [sic] between the guns. SMurfs fire rockets that detonate on impact. Stormtroopers fire silly laser-things that are so slow you can see them gently floating through the breeze.

Umm... The empire does have their own rocket launchers that detonate on impact. Their E3 Blaster Riffles fire at a very rappid speed. They also have heavy repeating guns which are basicly laser gattaling cannons. A lightsaber would cut through a space marine's armor no problem.

Okay, so the Q continuum gets to poking around and discovers the Star Wars universe. For them, it is a place with plenty more races to screw with - especially those with Force powers. A few more centuries of development, and these force users may pose a problem to the Q themselves.

In the meantime, one of the remaining imperial warlords has one of the crack scienctific leftovers from the Death Star projects attempting to develop some Hyperspace gun - a weapon that hurls a planet into hyperspace and sends it to another point to collide with another planet, creating the equivilant of a planet-sized supercollider. However, the research instead opens up into the Warp of 40K. The Daemon gods, sensing new worlds to conquer, rip the portal open, creating a permanent opening to the Star Wars universe.

At that moment, both the Daemon gods and Q sense each other - and they know one or the other MUST die.

The Daemons take the initiative - sending their legions howling into this new world. The Q are quick to respond - realizing that best offence is a good defense, the Q ressurect all the Jedi of every era to respond to the chaos threat.

In a effort to nullify the Q's attempts, the Daemons counter by ressurecting the Sith and various Sith lords through the ages - and offering to take them in. To their surprise, the Sith refuse, and in their own way, start fighting for their own universe.

The Q realizing this three-way war will likely go bad for them, wrench the great races (Ferengi, Federation, Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, etc.) from the Star Trek universe into the Star Wars universe. For good measure, the Q continuum alert the Star Trek races (in their own twisted manner) what is at stake.

Khorne, the blood god, gets wise to the Q's plot. In a grand gesture, he decides to let all hell break loose - ripping wide the Warp portal and allowing all the races from 40K to bleed into the Star Wars universe. Now, senseless, unending carnage is his to control as the three universes collide in a battle that will shake all three universes.

Of course, the force, sensing its universe to be ripped apart, reacts, fortifying the Jedi and the Sith alike against the invaders, and enlightening them to the true enemy - the invaders Q and Daemons, and their "pawn" races. Now the fight is truly three-way.

Okay, with the above out of the way, this is what I'd see:

The 40K human imperium (Space Marines and Imperial Guard) decimate the imperial stormtroopers and repulic troopers of Star Wars. The Star Trek forces are too few in number to even begin countering the massive armies from 40K. In space, gothic battlecruisers and Star Destroyers are matched in battle, though the ruthlessness of the 40K imperium has them win a majority of the battles, even though many are won by the suicidal destruction of the gothic battleships. The federation, though better armed, is no match for the Star Wars or 40K fleets. Even with the aid of most of its other races, there just isn't enough to counter the sheer weight of 40K numbers.

The Jedi and Sith are more than a match for one demon (hey, if a Space Marine captain can kill a bloodthirster - See Dawn of War E3 trailer - the Jedi and Sith'll kick ass), but in numbers, the demons can overwhelm them. Many of the Jedi go down swinging in defense of the Star Wars worlds, while the Sith destroy hundreds with their abilities and bizarre technology. It is just not enough, and many jedi and sith fall before the daemonic hordes before the jedi and sith retreat, and form an uneasy alliance, mitigated by the Vulcans.

In other parts of the universe, Eldar and Orcs prey on lone worlds, siezing resources for their own use. The Ferengi freely trade with the two races, but quickly flee as soon as it seems combat is ready to break out. The dominion and the Cardassians, on the other hand, aggressively attack both the Eldar and Orcs. The Cardassians overwhelm the orcs through treachary and surgical use of force, preventing the Orcs from bringing their massive forces to bear. The dominion, on the other hand, makes great strides towards dominating the Eldar, until the Eldar learn to purge the hidden Dominion forces from their ranks. The counterassault is brutal, and the Dominion is forced to limp away and leave the Eldar alone.

Boba Fett and the other bounty hunters of the Star Wars universe find themselves charged with hunting down some of the nastiest assassins and psychers of the 40K universe as well as the famous crew members of the Star Trek universe. While most of the Star Trek officers manage to avoid capture or assassination (at the hands of the 40K assassins), a few red-shirted Star Trek commanders bite it, enough to create some legends among the bounty hunters. Boba Fett manages to score big by capturing Kirk, but ends up in the Sarlaac when the crew of the old enterprise (led by Spock) saves him from become wall ornamenation at Jabba's palace.

In desperation, the Sith rebuild the Death Star I and are in process of building #II when both the Star Trek and 40K forces assault it. The Death Stars do a fabulous job of annilating capital starships among the 40K forces, but eventually the remaining Star Trek ships scan the DS's and find their weak points. With a well-placed torpedo shot, Warf's cloaked Defiant destroys the Death Star I. Meanwhile, a strike force on the Forest Moon of Endor, lead by Picard brings down the DS II's shields, allowing Data to transport aboard the DS II and sabotage the main core. Data escapes using a personal transporter, barely returning to the Enterprise D battleforce before the DS II explodes.

Meanwhile, in another part of the galaxy, father and son Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker unite against the threat of the Daemon invasion. Temporarily uniting with the greatest Vulcans of the Star Trek Universe, they take the battle to the Daemon forces. With a never-seen-before uniting of Jedi and Sith forces (including a restored Darth Maul and a fiesty Yoda), the triad crush the daemonic tide, pushing the daemons back through to the 40K universe.

As that battle rages on, the Borg release species 28whatever into a grand melee between the Yuzug Vong, Tyranids and Species 28whatever. The fight is really not all that fair, and the Tyranids subsume both races to fuel their own numbers.

The Borg then continue on to face off against the Necrons, who have engaged the Trade Federation. Surprisingly, the trade federations has managed to hold the necron tide at bay, mostly due the efforts of the Destroyer droids and sheer numbers. The fight is short lived, as the borg quickly become resistant to the droids and necron's attacks, and subsume the Neimodians and Genosians into their own ranks to replace their losses.

With the battle against the daemons over with, the Jedi-Sith-Vulcan alliance turns to face the Borg/Necron/Trade Federation threat first. Jedi and Sith powers turn out to be neither assimilatable or subject to being adapted to. The triad makes short work of the Borg communal.

That leaves the triad force to face the Tyranid invading force, and it turns out that while the Tyranids are initially no match for the alliance, once they capture a few Jedi and Sith, they are able to replicate their own versions, and quickly trounce the triad.

With this new threat looming, the 40K Imperium, the Empire/Republic and Federation/Klingon/Romulan alliance unite against the Tyranid force. However, with the Tyranid now augmented with Force abilities, they are simply too much. If not for the intervention of the the Q continuum, the remainder of "humanity" could not hope to endure. With a not-so-gentle-push, the Q continuum thrusts the Tyranids into fluidic space.

Now, with the daemons pushed back to their own world, and the Tyranid horde taken care of, the Q continuum sends the remaining alliances back to their home realms, fixes the holes between the universes, and wipes the memory of what had transpired from all but a few person's memories. While a great many strange things in each universe go unaccounted, life quickly returns back to normal.

And for a moment, hyperspace opens up and Khorne peeks into the Star Wars universe. With a touch of his tiniest finger, he stirs war against the remaining Sith and Jedi again. Cackling with glee, he then lets close the portal and returns home.

I have been concidering to open up a RP which people get to controle a section of the galaxy which would include 40k, Star Trek, and Star Wars technologies. Every empire can choose which universe they want to play behind, or use their own Nation and use a combination of technologies from the three universes (I use 40k and Star Wars technologies).

Who would be interested?

Okay, so the Q continuum gets to poking around and discovers the Star Wars universe. For them, it is a place with plenty more races to screw with - especially those with Force powers. A few more centuries of development, and these force users may pose a problem to the Q themselves.

In the meantime, one of the remaining imperial warlords has one of the crack scienctific leftovers from the Death Star projects attempting to develop some Hyperspace gun - a weapon that hurls a planet into hyperspace and sends it to another point to collide with another planet, creating the equivilant of a planet-sized supercollider. However, the research instead opens up into the Warp of 40K. The Daemon gods, sensing new worlds to conquer, rip the portal open, creating a permanent opening to the Star Wars universe.

At that moment, both the Daemon gods and Q sense each other - and they know one or the other MUST die.

The Daemons take the initiative - sending their legions howling into this new world. The Q are quick to respond - realizing that best offence is a good defense, the Q ressurect all the Jedi of every era to respond to the chaos threat.

In a effort to nullify the Q's attempts, the Daemons counter by ressurecting the Sith and various Sith lords through the ages - and offering to take them in. To their surprise, the Sith refuse, and in their own way, start fighting for their own universe.

The Q realizing this three-way war will likely go bad for them, wrench the great races (Ferengi, Federation, Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, etc.) from the Star Trek universe into the Star Wars universe. For good measure, the Q continuum alert the Star Trek races (in their own twisted manner) what is at stake.

Khorne, the blood god, gets wise to the Q's plot. In a grand gesture, he decides to let all hell break loose - ripping wide the Warp portal and allowing all the races from 40K to bleed into the Star Wars universe. Now, senseless, unending carnage is his to control as the three universes collide in a battle that will shake all three universes.

Of course, the force, sensing its universe to be ripped apart, reacts, fortifying the Jedi and the Sith alike against the invaders, and enlightening them to the true enemy - the invaders Q and Daemons, and their "pawn" races. Now the fight is truly three-way.

Okay, with the above out of the way, this is what I'd see:

The 40K human imperium (Space Marines and Imperial Guard) decimate the imperial stormtroopers and repulic troopers of Star Wars. The Star Trek forces are too few in number to even begin countering the massive armies from 40K. In space, gothic battlecruisers and Star Destroyers are matched in battle, though the ruthlessness of the 40K imperium has them win a majority of the battles, even though many are won by the suicidal destruction of the gothic battleships. The federation, though better armed, is no match for the Star Wars or 40K fleets. Even with the aid of most of its other races, there just isn't enough to counter the sheer weight of 40K numbers.

The Jedi and Sith are more than a match for one demon (hey, if a Space Marine captain can kill a bloodthirster - See Dawn of War E3 trailer - the Jedi and Sith'll kick ass), but in numbers, the demons can overwhelm them. Many of the Jedi go down swinging in defense of the Star Wars worlds, while the Sith destroy hundreds with their abilities and bizarre technology. It is just not enough, and many jedi and sith fall before the daemonic hordes before the jedi and sith retreat, and form an uneasy alliance, mitigated by the Vulcans.

In other parts of the universe, Eldar and Orcs prey on lone worlds, siezing resources for their own use. The Ferengi freely trade with the two races, but quickly flee as soon as it seems combat is ready to break out. The dominion and the Cardassians, on the other hand, aggressively attack both the Eldar and Orcs. The Cardassians overwhelm the orcs through treachary and surgical use of force, preventing the Orcs from bringing their massive forces to bear. The dominion, on the other hand, makes great strides towards dominating the Eldar, until the Eldar learn to purge the hidden Dominion forces from their ranks. The counterassault is brutal, and the Dominion is forced to limp away and leave the Eldar alone.

Boba Fett and the other bounty hunters of the Star Wars universe find themselves charged with hunting down some of the nastiest assassins and psychers of the 40K universe as well as the famous crew members of the Star Trek universe. While most of the Star Trek officers manage to avoid capture or assassination (at the hands of the 40K assassins), a few red-shirted Star Trek commanders bite it, enough to create some legends among the bounty hunters. Boba Fett manages to score big by capturing Kirk, but ends up in the Sarlaac when the crew of the old enterprise (led by Spock) saves him from become wall ornamenation at Jabba's palace.

In desperation, the Sith rebuild the Death Star I and are in process of building #II when both the Star Trek and 40K forces assault it. The Death Stars do a fabulous job of annilating capital starships among the 40K forces, but eventually the remaining Star Trek ships scan the DS's and find their weak points. With a well-placed torpedo shot, Warf's cloaked Defiant destroys the Death Star I. Meanwhile, a strike force on the Forest Moon of Endor, lead by Picard brings down the DS II's shields, allowing Data to transport aboard the DS II and sabotage the main core. Data escapes using a personal transporter, barely returning to the Enterprise D battleforce before the DS II explodes.

Meanwhile, in another part of the galaxy, father and son Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker unite against the threat of the Daemon invasion. Temporarily uniting with the greatest Vulcans of the Star Trek Universe, they take the battle to the Daemon forces. With a never-seen-before uniting of Jedi and Sith forces (including a restored Darth Maul and a fiesty Yoda), the triad crush the daemonic tide, pushing the daemons back through to the 40K universe.

As that battle rages on, the Borg release species 28whatever into a grand melee between the Yuzug Vong, Tyranids and Species 28whatever. The fight is really not all that fair, and the Tyranids subsume both races to fuel their own numbers.

The Borg then continue on to face off against the Necrons, who have engaged the Trade Federation. Surprisingly, the trade federations has managed to hold the necron tide at bay, mostly due the efforts of the Destroyer droids and sheer numbers. The fight is short lived, as the borg quickly become resistant to the droids and necron's attacks, and subsume the Neimodians and Genosians into their own ranks to replace their losses.

With the battle against the daemons over with, the Jedi-Sith-Vulcan alliance turns to face the Borg/Necron/Trade Federation threat first. Jedi and Sith powers turn out to be neither assimilatable or subject to being adapted to. The triad makes short work of the Borg communal.

That leaves the triad force to face the Tyranid invading force, and it turns out that while the Tyranids are initially no match for the alliance, once they capture a few Jedi and Sith, they are able to replicate their own versions, and quickly trounce the triad.

With this new threat looming, the 40K Imperium, the Empire/Republic and Federation/Klingon/Romulan alliance unite against the Tyranid force. However, with the Tyranid now augmented with Force abilities, they are simply too much. If not for the intervention of the the Q continuum, the remainder of "humanity" could not hope to endure. With a not-so-gentle-push, the Q continuum thrusts the Tyranids into fluidic space.

Now, with the daemons pushed back to their own world, and the Tyranid horde taken care of, the Q continuum sends the remaining alliances back to their home realms, fixes the holes between the universes, and wipes the memory of what had transpired from all but a few person's memories. While a great many strange things in each universe go unaccounted, life quickly returns back to normal.

And for a moment, hyperspace opens up and Khorne peeks into the Star Wars universe. With a touch of his tiniest finger, he stirs war against the remaining Sith and Jedi again. Cackling with glee, he then lets close the portal and returns home.
Sounds like a really good fanfiction! Somebody write it! In fact, this is an excellent chance for a mega-RP! :D

Sounds like a really good fanfiction! Somebody write it! In fact, this is an excellent chance for a mega-RP! :D

Umm. . . Did you not notice my post? I'm going to make a poll under International Incidents to make a RP concerning this.

I won'y bother wading thru 11 pages of posts on this.
All I can say is this:
ST stratregy and tactics suck in a manner only a TV show can.
SW stratregy and tactics suck in a manner only a blockbuster movie can.

Thus 40K, as an actual wargame, pwns both.

Wow, this is long! Make a poll.

40K. It is more realistic (empire by 24th century/warp jump in a day in Star Trek? Don't think so) and it's probably how a human empire would turn out, given how horrible humans are ;) . All of them have crappy anthromorphic aliens. I realise that over 28 pages this is probably moot.

Besides, people in Star Trek wear pyjamas in space, and the whole feel is somewhat too clean and stable for the future. The future will most likely be riddled with wars and plagues.

Actually, the rouge A-wing did destroy the Executor. It blew up by hitting the death star, and there would be no way the Executor would be able to continue to kick butt because it was damaged beyond repair (did you notice the flames that were comming out of the bridge before it crashed into the DS 2?). One other thing, the A-wing was only able to destroy the Executor because it's 3 sheild generators were destroyed.

Oh please. This is a civilatzion that built a massive station capable of destroying planets, you don't think they're capable of repairing a bridge tower fire?

Anyway, so the bridge is out, it has secondary control centers, as demonstrated in the novels and technical guides, and the fire control centers are not located on the ship, so it could continue to fight. The only problem was that it crashed into the Death Star before the secondary bridge crews could regain control.

Eventhough I like star trek very much, I would still go for Star Wars. Even the borg would think twice before attacking the sun crusher.

They'll think twice before taking on a mere Carrack one on one, that's how large the difference in firepower is.

Over a year? Sorry, I was going by your population. You only have 400 mil... I've seen billion pop nations with less cash...

And Kerchopia, Alpha-level psykers could destroy the death-star with a twitch of his fingers. There are trillions of Imperial Guardsmen, unkillable Necrons, Orkz that breed when they die, Tyranids too numerous to count (and I can count in the trillions), millions of uber-human Space Marines, and Star Wars sword fighting could be easily countered with a good fencing style.

Check again. My population is 3.706 billion.

None of the characters in the three forms of geek entertainment/stories/concepts would be able to successfully conquer anything but their hands and lower regions. Nor the geeks that play the games, watch the movies, or revel in any of its associated culture. :sniper:


:mp5:

Ah yes, anyone who enjoys debating science fiction for fun must be a socially inept recluse eh? :rolleyes:

Who has more of a life? Someone who gets a kick from engaging in silly debates for fun with like minded people or someone who trolls forums to insult anybody he disagrees with?

I pity you.

Wow, this is long! Make a poll.

40K. It is more realistic (empire by 24th century/warp jump in a day in Star Trek? Don't think so) and it's probably how a human empire would turn out, given how horrible humans are ;) . All of them have crappy anthromorphic aliens. I realise that over 28 pages this is probably moot.

Besides, people in Star Trek wear pyjamas in space, and the whole feel is somewhat too clean and stable for the future. The future will most likely be riddled with wars and plagues.

WH40K realistic? What have you been smoking? The thing is swarming with Gods, immortal wizards and infinite hordes of unkillable demons. It's no more realistic than ST or SW. And what's wrong with Anthropomorphic aliens? At least in Star Wars they're not just humans with spots.

By the way, guys, you're all seriously underestimating SW. They've been space born for at least 50,000 years, perhaps as much as a few hundred thousand. I almost want to cry when people say "twenty thousand"...

I won'y bother wading thru 11 pages of posts on this.
All I can say is this:
ST stratregy and tactics suck in a manner only a TV show can.
SW stratregy and tactics suck in a manner only a blockbuster movie can.

Thus 40K, as an actual wargame, pwns both.

Please, there are two forms of combat in 40K
1) Charge the enemy and engage him with yoru chainswords/power weapons/claws/crude bashing instrument
2) If you suck at hand-to-hand, grab as many guns as you can and pray to the Emperor/Chaos Gods/ect. that they don't reach your lines

As a constant debate, my friends and I would argue for hours on whether Warhammer 40K, Star Trek, or Star Wars would win in a universal battle for Supremacy.
Hey, go outside and interact with the real people.

Hey, go outside and interact with the real people.
...says the boy on the internet forum

How can this even be a debate?

The Sisters of Battle could take on both Star Trek and Star Wars, at teh same time, and blow them away. I don't think lightsabers can stop bolter slugs, and the whole daemon presence invading entire systems kinda outweighs any weapon 'Trek or Star Wars could muster. Luke Skywalker could defeat Darth Vader, but could he defeat a Primarch? Greater Daemon? Not on your life. It would be like a stone-wielding Zulu charging this.... :sniper:. Slightly amusing, but doomed to failure in every way.

How can this even be a debate?

The Sisters of Battle could take on both Star Trek and Star Wars, at teh same time, and blow them away. I don't think lightsabers can stop bolter slugs, and the whole daemon presence invading entire systems kinda outweighs any weapon 'Trek or Star Wars could muster. Luke Skywalker could defeat Darth Vader, but could he defeat a Primarch? Greater Daemon? Not on your life. It would be like a stone-wielding Zulu charging this.... :sniper:. Slightly amusing, but doomed to failure in every way.

C'mon, Sisters of Battle? All they are are Stormtroopers with better armor and weapons. Granted any force could defeat Trek, but Wars?

How can this even be a debate?

The Sisters of Battle could take on both Star Trek and Star Wars, at teh same time, and blow them away. I don't think lightsabers can stop bolter slugs, and the whole daemon presence invading entire systems kinda outweighs any weapon 'Trek or Star Wars could muster. Luke Skywalker could defeat Darth Vader, but could he defeat a Primarch? Greater Daemon? Not on your life. It would be like a stone-wielding Zulu charging this.... :sniper:. Slightly amusing, but doomed to failure in every way.

Once you take away all the fancy Magic powers and make it a fair fight. The Empire would beat the hell out of WH40K as its vastly superior fleet would have space superiority. Why engage Space Marines and lose when you can vaporize the planet with the Death Star?

And has no one seen my mention of SD-10 and X-1 Viper Battle Droids. They're greater than or egual to any Space Marine. And the Empire could make trillions of them.

And if you ignore SW greatest strength the fleets, 40K would win. Seriously how can you have a real competition if you leave out the things that make one side stron but not the other.

You guys are missing the big picture.

The sheer gargantuan armies the 40k world can muster would grind the Empire down in a matter of a couple of years. If the Death Star took one wrong turn in the Warp, it would be infested with Chaos and then there goes the massive Imperial strategy. No magic you say? Ok, take the entire armed might of the Empire, multiply that by about 10 000 (at the least) and you get the amount of soldiers fighting in the Imperium. Tyranids, Tau, Chaos, IG, Space MArines, Necrons, Eldar, Dark Eldar.....unfathomable. It really is no contest.

You guys are missing the big picture.

The sheer gargantuan armies the 40k world can muster would grind the Empire down in a matter of a couple of years. If the Death Star took one wrong turn in the Warp, it would be infested with Chaos and then there goes the massive Imperial strategy. No magic you say? Ok, take the entire armed might of the Empire, multiply that by about 10 000 (at the least) and you get the amount of soldiers fighting in the Imperium. Tyranids, Tau, Chaos, IG, Space MArines, Necrons, Eldar, Dark Eldar.....unfathomable. It really is no contest.

Er, does controlling the entire galaxy mean nothing to you people?

Coruscant alone has trillions of people.

And if you ignore SW greatest strength the fleets, 40K would win. Seriously how can you have a real competition if you leave out the things that make one side stron but not the other.

I admit that 40K would win the gods and demons and crap. However, gods, demons, immortal people and infinite hordes of unkillable beings are a HUGE scapegoat.

All I've seen on this thread is basically WH40K fans whoring out their favorite super being. "Psykers pwn ISD's w00t and are ub3r l33t!!!111!111!" Of course that's an exageration but the point remains valid.

How can it be a true test of strength of the universe when one of the parties can weasel out of a death trap by saying "Well I can't admit that I've been beaten so Chaos God/Q/Sith Lord/hordes of unkillable demons are going to come and save me from my shameful defeat."

That's why I ignore ALL magic powers/super beings. I don't count Force powers in when I support SW, Q isn't a factor in Star Trek and neither are the uber magic powers of WH40K.

You guys are missing the big picture.

The sheer gargantuan armies the 40k world can muster would grind the Empire down in a matter of a couple of years. If the Death Star took one wrong turn in the Warp, it would be infested with Chaos and then there goes the massive Imperial strategy. No magic you say? Ok, take the entire armed might of the Empire, multiply that by about 10 000 (at the least) and you get the amount of soldiers fighting in the Imperium. Tyranids, Tau, Chaos, IG, Space MArines, Necrons, Eldar, Dark Eldar.....unfathomable. It really is no contest.

You also seem to not understand the hyperspace has nothing to at all to do with the Warp from WH40K. Which means the DS shows up on time with it's destiny to vaporize a Forge World, then it leaves at 50 million times light speed to the next Forge World and vaporizes that and continue.

Er, does controlling the entire galaxy mean nothing to you people?

Coruscant alone has trillions of people.

And Coruscant is a typical core world in terms of urban development and population. Which is around the 1000 trillion range.

So I'm just picking this thread up, and I'm not sure if its been mentioned already... but I believe even without psykers (except the emperor, of course), the Imperial Guard would reign supreme over both ST and SW.

Based on their sheer number, their compatibility and their devotion to the emperor, they would eventually overtake.
The Imperial Navy is probably the strongest navy in 40k, with thousands of ships carrying battery after battery of weapons, plus the devastating Nova Cannons and the famed Lance Batteries. *drools*

I've also thought of another issue...
What if the Imperium didnt suffer such technology loss at the end of the "Dark Age Of Technology", where would they be in the 40k universe? It is said that the imperial tanks are not much better than the tanks of today. Of course, much of the weaponry is better (las cannons), but the armour isn't so much better.


It is better to die for the emperor than to live for yourself.

And if you ignore SW greatest strength the fleets, 40K would win. Seriously how can you have a real competition if you leave out the things that make one side stron but not the other.
Two words: Orbitial bombardment. That's after wiping the floor with the Imperium fleet. After all, Imperium ships are slower in FTL, and have slower reaction times than Star Destroyers. As every pilot knows: "Speed kills."

You also seem to not understand the hyperspace has nothing to at all to do with the Warp from WH40K. Which means the DS shows up on time with it's destiny to vaporize a Forge World, then it leaves at 50 million times light speed to the next Forge World and vaporizes that and continue.

Warp != Hyperspace
Warp Engines != Hyperspace Engines

Can you prove that in the 40K world, hyperspace works, or is any different from Warp travel?

Conversely, can anyone prove that in the SW world, warp drives can even function?

So I'm just picking this thread up, and I'm not sure if its been mentioned already... but I believe even without psykers (except the emperor, of course), the Imperial Guard would reign supreme over both ST and SW.

Based on their sheer number, their compatibility and their devotion to the emperor, they would eventually overtake.
The Imperial Navy is probably the strongest navy in 40k, with thousands of ships carrying battery after battery of weapons, plus the devastating Nova Cannons and the famed Lance Batteries. *drools*

You know, the numbers the 40K universe just don't compare to a universe where a single world holds anywhere between a dozen trillion and a thousand trillion people.

Because the entire populations of that plant is not in the millitary, and Corsucant isn't a good measure for the average population of core worlds since it has been the Gallactic capital for a hell oh a long time. Aditionally only a twothirds of the SW galaxy is controled by the Impire. The Imperium holds the entire 40K gallaxy exept for certain pokets like the Corparret(sp) Sector and Happian Empire/Matriarchy of the SW universe. Any way if we discounted deamons and such then warp trave is perfectly safe since all of its problems result from deamons messing with the ships.

Sad as this thread is (and much as I hate 40K and Star Trek) lets look at the facts.

The Trekkies (apart from the Kilgons, Borg and Jem-Hadda) are not used to war. They do (only just) have the highest tech base (discounting the Tau) but the only coherent force they have is the Federation which would frankly suck and die.

Star Wars is a bit trickier coz where in the time line do you take it? When they had Jedi coming out the ears or AT-AT's stopping things flat? Still assuming the New Rebulic kept the Imperial War Machine and raised new Jedi orders then they might have a fighting chance. Especially as The republic covers the whole galaxy where as the others are split into factions.

Now 40k. We have the C'tan, Daemons, Eldar, Tau, Orks, Nid for cristsakes. Can you imagine a borg ship trying to assimalate a nid hive ship? "We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. Processing. Synapses to the Hive Mind Opened. Error. Error. System Error.... We Are Tyranids. We are One. We are Legion. All goly to the eternal hive." That said a Borg with Ork DNA would be someing to be recond with. Speaking of Orks an Ork would totally deck a Kilgon. What does that leave... Jem-Hadda? Hmm two words. Space Marine. Now Star wars. Jedi? Against Daemons? Umm "Die fiend I slice thou in thwine with my saber of light...hmm whats that foul daemon of Nurgle? Didn't hurt a but? Oh crap...". "Ah-ha we have a Death Star... what? You have a fleet of ships that can blow up planets... fook...".

It has to be 40K. But they'd suffer heavy losses.

Y'know when I last wrote to this thread it was actually about who would win if SW/ST/40K had a big war. Now it seems to be "oh, the force doesn't count" or "oh, the warp doesn't count". And an Exterminatus would kill the death star in about a minute.

You know, the numbers the 40K universe just don't compare to a universe where a single world holds anywhere between a dozen trillion and a thousand trillion people.

Did you ever wonder about the implausibility of this?

He (http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cgi-bin/comic.pl?fivelast=380&theme=7&bytheme=next) did.

Fascinating.

It has to be 40K. But they'd suffer heavy losses.
My last comment doesn't include you, Nag Ehgoeg. You seem to have brought a bresh beath of air to a stagnant thread. Even though you do hate the thread.

Warp != Hyperspace
Warp Engines != Hyperspace Engines

Can you prove that in the 40K world, hyperspace works, or is any different from Warp travel?

Conversely, can anyone prove that in the SW world, warp drives can even function?


The trekk warp engine work by 'folding' space. So they would work anywhere... then again in 40k if they hit a mealstrum they'd create a new Eye of Terror.

The 40k warp engines work by shunting the ship into the Warp. They would not function in Trekkie world but they may be able to enter hyperspace.

SW makes a jump to lighspeed (making them the slowest ships, even the falcon can make only 1.5x the speed of light "She'll go .5 past lightspeed"). The do this by shunting the mass of the ship into hyperspace. Hyperspce would exist in Trekkie world... in 40K however you'd fall into the warp. This is bad. Without physic shielding and a Naviagtor they'd be ripped to shreds by Daemons.

Now the Culture. They'd kick everythings ass. A GCU could take down a Cube/Battle Barge/The Executioner (Vader's Super Star Destroyer). Anti matters fun - especailly when you can control it like the Culture. Hell they could probably take on at least two of them at once and win. They'd hack the borg[i] out tech the Taudrop CAM on the Eldar, send Knife Missles to mop up the federation etc etc etc

Be sensible Warhammer 40k rocks the socks off of both of those thing. I think it is the first sci-fi idea to have the humans as a powerful force to be seriously confronted, all the other things all have the humans as weak and feable, this is the only sci-fi thing that concieves the idea of the humans not being so weak and infact being uber_ powerful. It is a unique concept (created by the english not the americans as useual by the way, just thought to put that in!).

Now the Culture. They'd kick everythings ass. A GCU could take down a Cube/Battle Barge/The Executioner (Vader's Super Star Destroyer). Anti matters fun - especailly when you can control it like the Culture. Hell they could probably take on at least two of them at once and win. They'd hack the borg[i] out tech the Taudrop CAM on the Eldar, send Knife Missles to mop up the federation etc etc etc

They'd? Who'd?

SW makes a jump to lighspeed (making them the slowest ships, even the falcon can make only 1.5x the speed of light "She'll go .5 past lightspeed"). The do this by shunting the mass of the ship into hyperspace. Hyperspce would exist in Trekkie world... in 40K however you'd fall into the warp. This is bad. Without physic shielding and a Naviagtor they'd be ripped to shreds by Daemons.
I'm sorry, but you are off your rocker if you think a galactic-spanning civilization has that laughably slow speed. Try again, buddy.

Y'know when I last wrote to this thread it was actually about who would win if SW/ST/40K had a big war. Now it seems to be "oh, the force doesn't count" or "oh, the warp doesn't count". And an Exterminatus would kill the death star in about a minute.

An exterminas is a proceedure not a ship BTW. Abadan has a planet killing ship of a similar name and that causes a lot of confusion.

OK

Power Armour is Far More Advanced than Stom Trooper Armour. Sorry but thats true.
A lightsaber would stop a bolter shell. The Shell would explode but it would stop it. What it wouldn't stop is a melta or plasma hit (except Eldar and Tau plasma).
Storm Troopers are drilled and trained better than guard but not as well as Sisters of Battle and Marines etc.
A blaster is more powerful than a lasgun, its on the same level as a bolter easy.
Phasers are equal to lasguns. Before you whine that a phaser can disintergrate read a Gaunts Ghosts novel. The two are equally deadly on living flesh, and ineffective on inorganic substances.
SW ships are the slowest FTL but are probably the fastest SLS. Now seeing as most battles don't take place at FTL speeds they may SEEM to have an advantage but the Trekkies and Kers can hit and run.
40K would always lose outside their own dimension (too fractured, no warp).
Seeing as mediclorines don't exist in other worlds so would SW.
The Trekkies could mount an offensive (and don't get much of a home field advantage) but the other two are so powerful in their own envioments the Trekkies would never win.

I maintain the the Culture (invented by Ian Banks) would take on all comers.
They have AI's that approach ominisance
They have antimatter weapons that out class Trekkies by far
Most of they're weaponry is sentient
The have nanoscale bombs capable of destroying planets

Now the Culture. They'd kick everythings ass. A GCU could take down a Cube/Battle Barge/The Executioner (Vader's Super Star Destroyer). Anti matters fun - especailly when you can control it like the Culture. Hell they could probably take on at least two of them at once and win. They'd hack the borg[i] out tech the Taudrop CAM on the Eldar, send Knife Missles to mop up the federation etc etc etc

Yes! The Culture would kick ass. Hell, even a tiny little patrol unit (I can't remember the designation) could take on a ISD and come out on top. Each one has huge numbers of weapons, can regenerate same (giving it virtually unlimited ammo) and the ability to travel at millions of times the speed of light. Plus the larger ships can reconfigure at will to suit their current task.

Go Culture!

EDIT:
Oh. And SW hyperspace is much faster than 1.5x lightspeed. All the way across the galactic disk (a bloody huge long way) in 48 hours. It takes light hundreds of years to do the same.
BTW, X-wings (and all other fighters) are faster in hyperspace than the Millennium Falcon.

I'm sorry, but you are off your rocker if you think a galactic-spanning civilization has that laughably slow speed. Try again, buddy.


Hey man watch the film.

Millienum Falcon. Fastest ship in the galaxy.
"She'll make point-5 past light speed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid."

450ms-1. Don't ask me to explain the continuity errors that creates but its right there in the film. 1.5 times the speed of light. Yes by all rights that should mean travel takes milleia but its right there in the film.

An exterminas is a proceedure not a ship BTW. Abadan has a planet killing ship of a similar name and that causes a lot of confusion.

OK

Power Armour is Far More Advanced than Stom Trooper Armour. Sorry but thats true.
A lightsaber would stop a bolter shell. The Shell would explode but it would stop it. What it wouldn't stop is a melta or plasma hit (except Eldar and Tau plasma).
Storm Troopers are drilled and trained better than guard but not as well as Sisters of Battle and Marines etc.
A blaster is more powerful than a lasgun, its on the same level as a bolter easy.
Phasers are equal to lasguns. Before you whine that a phaser can disintergrate read a Gaunts Ghosts novel. The two are equally deadly on living flesh, and ineffective on inorganic substances.
Good enough.

SW ships are the slowest FTL but are probably the fastest SLS. Now seeing as most battles don't take place at FTL speeds they may SEEM to have an advantage but the Trekkies and Kers can hit and run.
Prove it. Prove that hyperspace is slower than something that takes days or weeks to cross ONE quadrant (ST warp) and years to cross a galaxy (WH40K warp).

40K would always lose outside their own dimension (too fractured, no warp).
Seeing as mediclorines don't exist in other worlds so would SW.
Eh, there are Psykers in the WH40K verse, the average Jedi would match a Librarian at most and the most powerful Jedi/Sith would be somewhat higher on that scale. Dunno about Trekverse, but considering there's any number of psychic species (not counting the big gods), the Jedi could operate here too.

The Trekkies could mount an offensive (and don't get much of a home field advantage) but the other two are so powerful in their own envioments the Trekkies would never win.
No question about that.

I maintain the the Culture (invented by Ian Banks) would take on all comers.
They have AI's that approach ominisance
They have antimatter weapons that out class Trekkies by far
Most of they're weaponry is sentient
The have nanoscale bombs capable of destroying planets
At least there's another thing we agree on.

Good enough.


Prove it. Prove that hyperspace is slower than something that takes days or weeks to cross ONE quadrant (ST warp) and years to cross a galaxy (WH40K warp).


Eh, there are Psykers in the WH40K verse, the average Jedi would match a Librarian at most and the most powerful Jedi/Sith would be somewhat higher on that scale. Dunno about Trekverse, but considering there's any number of psychic species (not counting the big gods), the Jedi could operate here too.


For speed see my Falcon arguement. The A-Wing and TIE interecptor are the only fighters faster than the Falcon. The Falcon is credited at being the fastest ship in the galxay and goes at 1.5 times the speed of light. Yes it creates continuity errors. Deal with it.

Yes but Psykers draw their power from the warp. Jedi the Force an meidcholorins. There is no Warp in SW, no Chaos Gods, no Emperor, no Psykers.

Now episode 1 credits the Force effecting everythin because its all conected by medicholrines (in an effort to shy away from buddism). No meds, no force.


No question about that.


At least there's another thing we agree on.

Hey man watch the film.

Millienum Falcon. Fastest ship in the galaxy.
"She'll make point-5 past light speed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid."

450ms-1. Don't ask me to explain the continuity errors that creates but its right there in the film. 1.5 times the speed of light. Yes by all rights that should mean travel takes milleia but its right there in the film.
Eh, I don't think 1.5c is what Han has in mind for his hyperdrive. Like I said, a presence of a GALACTIC CIVILIZATION contradicts what you said. Common sense. Here's something else:
The whole of Attack of the Clones suggest extremely high FTL speeds, especially when you consider the rescue at the end. Anakin, Obi-wan and Padme would have been dead long before the rescue if what you say is true. So I go by Occam's Razor here: The hyperdrives are extremely fast.

I maintain the the Culture (invented by Ian Banks) would take on all comers.
They have AI's that approach ominisance
They have antimatter weapons that out class Trekkies by far
Most of they're weaponry is sentient
The have nanoscale bombs capable of destroying planets

Xelee would pwn the Culture.

Blatantly 40k.

Hey man watch the film.

Millienum Falcon. Fastest ship in the galaxy.
"She'll make point-5 past light speed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid."

450ms-1. Don't ask me to explain the continuity errors that creates but its right there in the film. 1.5 times the speed of light. Yes by all rights that should mean travel takes milleia but its right there in the film.

The novels address that. The ".5" is it's rating. The larger the number, the slower the FTL. A Victory Star Destroyer has a rating of 1, which is faster then a regular Imperator, which is a 2.

The Millenium Falcon is a freighter. When Han said it was the fastest, he meant the fastest ship that wasn't a one-man fighter. Also, that speed is in hyperspace (its almost as fast as fighters in hyperspace). In sub-light, it's a pig. (See ANH, it can barely outrun a ISD (leaving tatooine), and during the escape from DS1, the TIEs are all over it)

All fighters are faster than the Millennium Falcon (except poss. TIE bomber/Y-wing). A-wing has same speed as X-wing in hyperspace.

As for Han saying the Falcon is the fastest ship in the galaxy, come on. He's a Corellian, he's boasting.

EDIT:
The Culture would eat 40K for breakfast and come round for seconds at SW. ST is barely worth mentioning, to the Culture that's like stepping on an ant, they wouldn't notice.

Eh, I don't think 1.5c is what Han has in mind for his hyperdrive. Like I said, a presence of a GALACTIC CIVILIZATION contradicts what you said. Common sense. Here's something else:
The whole of Attack of the Clones suggest extremely high FTL speeds, especially when you consider the rescue at the end. Anakin, Obi-wan and Padme would have been dead long before the rescue if what you say is true. So I go by Occam's Razor here: The hyperdrives are extremely fast.

This is the same film that has sound in space, cardboard cut out elite troopers, indenticle clones who occasionally are too big to fit through doors without bashing their head, a gaint wookie that lives on endore with all the miget ewoks, a slug that grows about 3 times its own size in what 10 years?

But ok fine I conceed, if we're talking from what we see. SW has the fastest ships hands down.

The Culture would eat 40K for breakfast and come round for seconds at SW. ST is barely worth mentioning, to the Culture that's like stepping on an ant, they wouldn't notice.


I dunno. They'd certainally kick the crap out of them but can you imagine if a 'Nid or a Borg got their hands on a Culture SC Agent? There'd be more genitc data in that one person than in like... everything they've ever had before ever. I mean that is one MOTHER HUBBORD of a power boost.... that said the big C would probably just use drones.... sentitent drones that could outthink Eintsien... that have rolled right off the produaction line... bottom of the range models...

I dunno. They'd certainally kick the crap out of them but can you imagine if a 'Nid or a Borg got their hands on a Culture SC Agent? There'd be more genitc data in that one person than in like... everything they've ever had before ever. I mean that is one MOTHER HUBBORD of a power boost.... that said the big C would probably just use drones.... sentitent drones that could outthink Eintsien... that have rolled right off the produaction line... bottom of the range models...

Um... Hadn't thought about that. Yeah, that would be a major bummer. Your enemy suddenly gets knowledge on all your tech, because they killed one guy. However, you're probably right about using the drone, it's far simpler.

Make a Culture RP.

40K. Hands down.

I would give my vote to 40k, because the Human Imperium is not alone; they have potential allies amongst the Eldar, whom are comparable with the Vulcans in the Star Trek universe.
The breakdown of potential allies, as well as potential enemies, in each universe, must be taken into consideration for this scenario. Turning everyone loose into a free-for-all, would, eventually, create a situation of "us versus them".
40k rules!

I just wanted to pop in to say:

If this becomes the longest thread on NS, I'm going to be so disappointed in you all. Not angry, just disappointed.

Think about all the energy spend. Energy that could have been better spent writing your representatives about gun control; restoring a classic automobile; or even flooding a newsgroup with some spicy Kirk-Spock fanfic. But no. All of this energy was instead devoted to figuring out whether the Millennium Falcon goes warp 9 or warp 9.2.

I would give my vote to Warhammer 40k, because the Human Imperium is not alone; they have potential allies amongst the Eldar, whom are comparable with the Vulcans in the Star Trek universe.
The breakdown of potential allies, as well as potential enemies, in each universe, must be taken into consideration for this scenario. Turning everyone loose into a free-for-all, would, eventually, create a situation of "us versus them".
Warhammer 40k rules!

I dunno. They'd certainally kick the crap out of them but can you imagine if a 'Nid or a Borg got their hands on a Culture SC Agent? There'd be more genitc data in that one person than in like... everything they've ever had before ever. I mean that is one MOTHER HUBBORD of a power boost.... that said the big C would probably just use drones.... sentitent drones that could outthink Eintsien... that have rolled right off the produaction line... bottom of the range models...

no no no... remember culture effectors! They hacked the Idirian (or was it Chelgrian?) central computer from half a galaxy away... the borg would just become culture drones. There'd never be a fight. Nothing that the borg has could stand against a mind. The culture will easily and always crush ST, and if you get to invoke Q, the culture gets to invoke the sublimed. (they've never done anything, but their powers have been hinted at.)

So says me.

star wars, anyday.

I just wanted to pop in to say:

If this becomes the longest thread on NS, I'm going to be so disappointed in you all. Not angry, just disappointed.

Think about all the energy spend. Energy that could have been better spent writing your representatives about gun control; restoring a classic automobile; or even flooding a newsgroup with some spicy Kirk-Spock fanfic. But no. All of this energy was instead devoted to figuring out whether the Millennium Falcon goes warp 9 or warp 9.2.

Ha!

As opposed, say, to people posting their obstinate opinions over and over on abortion and such?

:p

This is the same film that has sound in space, cardboard cut out elite troopers, indenticle clones who occasionally are too big to fit through doors without bashing their head, a gaint wookie that lives on endore with all the miget ewoks, a slug that grows about 3 times its own size in what 10 years?

But ok fine I conceed, if we're talking from what we see. SW has the fastest ships hands down.

That's why you trust the novelizations more than the films. The films were cheap entertainment, the novelizations were in-depth adventures.

Warp != Hyperspace
Warp Engines != Hyperspace Engines

Can you prove that in the 40K world, hyperspace works, or is any different from Warp travel?

Conversely, can anyone prove that in the SW world, warp drives can even function?

In any sci-fi debate you have to assume that everyone's technology works regardless of where they are. So SW Warp Drivem WH40K Warp and SW Hyperspace would all work.

And hyperspace is the fastest of all the FTL. In ANH the Millenium Falcon took a day tops to go from Tatooine, a planet in the ass end of the galaxy, to Alderann, a core world. That means that the Falcon covered at least 30,000 light-years in under a day.

Not to mention the numerous trips from Coruscant to Tatooine in AoTC and TPM. Remember Darth Maul's trip to Tatooine, he arrived within a day, two days at most. That translates to millions of times c.

As for vast numbers, Coruscant is a typical core world. Did you see the millions of of ships in orbit during TPM and AoTC? That's how they support the population, everything is shipped in.

As for military numbers, ever heard of the draft? Not to mention Spaarti cloning cylinders and flash-learning systems, see the Thrawn trilogy. And don't forget the mass produced SD-10 and X-1 Viper War Droids. They're a match for Space Marines if I ever saw one.

Sound in space is rationalized by the computer making to the sounds for identification purposes. It makes sense to use all of the senses to convey information.

Wookies live on Kashyyk not the Forest Moon. And after ANH it would appear Jabba became sedentiary spending all of his time eating in his palace. How is one example supposed to overturn the rest of the evidence that says SW would whoop 40K's but?

Sorry but I have to say that Star Trek, Star Wars and Warhammer 40000 all pale in comparision to the new Battlestar Galactica series.

As a constant debate, my friends and I would argue for hours on whether Warhammer 40K, Star Trek, or Star Wars would win in a universal battle for Supremacy.

Der, Star Wars

Get The F**k Out Of Your House

As a constant debate, my friends and I would argue for hours on whether Warhammer 40K, Star Trek, or Star Wars would win in a universal battle for Supremacy.
There were quite a few interesting points made in the poll thread and I haven't read all of this thread yet but people keep assuming that the Empire only had 2 Death Stars. But the Emperor had a secret Lab in the midst of the blackhole cluster located near Kessel. There were 5 complete Death Stars with 2 in construction. The only way the Rebels kept them out of the action was to destroy the bouys marking the safe path out. If the Empire became aware of the site and re-laid the bouys there would be 5+ fully capable Death Stars waiting.
Secondly there are the "witches" of Dathomir which are a force to be reconed with. They even repelled a massive effort by the Old Jedi Order to recover the Jedi school that crashed there. They are a force in their own right and stand free of Republic and Empire. They are strong enough to control the minds of entire forces and even Rancor's (Luke fought a baby at Jabba's). The point is that they should probably be counted as a force to be reconned with.

Get The F**k Out Of Your House

After you my trolling chum :rolleyes:

Sorry but I have to say that Star Trek, Star Wars and Warhammer 40000 all pale in comparision to the new Battlestar Galactica series.

In firepower, no. Just no.

Battlestar Galactica can kiss my butt. And the firepower and such for 40k is stronger than any of the others.

:gundge: (Starwars, StarTrek, Battlestar Galactica) :sniper: (40k)

Battlestar Galactica can kiss my butt. And the firepower and such for 40k is stronger than any of the others.

:gundge: (Starwars, StarTrek, Battlestar Galactica) :sniper: (40k)

40K and Star Wars are about equal actually.

40K and Star Wars are about equal actually.
LOL YOU MUST BE A POSER. I must be one of the few who actually play it.

Listen to logic people.

4,600 years of having space travel and lightsabers, and the Star Wars universe only recently created a space station capable of planetary destruction, and only one of those weapons per station.
40K has much bigger potential. Have you EVER READ THE HORUS HERESY?

LOL YOU MUST BE A POSER. I must be one of the few who actually play it.

Listen to logic people.

4,600 years of having space travel and lightsabers, and the Star Wars universe only recently created a space station capable of planetary destruction, and only one of those weapons per station.
40K has much bigger potential. Have you EVER READ THE HORUS HERESY?
It's actually 25,000 years. And in fact, the Republic's industrial capability was always there (Kuat, Corellia, Fondor for starters). It was just a matter of politics (Republic into Empire), economics (Widely diverging planetary economies vs more centrally controlled command economy; civilian needs & wants vs military needs & wants) and removing certain watchdog groups from the galactic scene (Jedi Knights) before the Death Star could safely be built.

LOL YOU MUST BE A POSER. I must be one of the few who actually play it.

Listen to logic people.

4,600 years of having space travel and lightsabers, and the Star Wars universe only recently created a space station capable of planetary destruction, and only one of those weapons per station.
40K has much bigger potential. Have you EVER READ THE HORUS HERESY?


Why would you need more than one planet destroying weapon per ship? With one you already have enough firepower to destroy any conceivable fleet single-handed.

LOL YOU MUST BE A POSER. I must be one of the few who actually play it.

Listen to logic people.

4,600 years of having space travel and lightsabers, and the Star Wars universe only recently created a space station capable of planetary destruction, and only one of those weapons per station.
40K has much bigger potential. Have you EVER READ THE HORUS HERESY?

4,600?

Haha, try upwards of 50,000, perhaps very upwards. Maybe up to a million.

Plus, Coreworlds got it, the Galactic Republic was the first galaxy spanning government. They would have never built something capable of destroying planets.

4,600?

Haha, try upwards of 50,000, perhaps very upwards. Maybe up to a million.

Plus, Coreworlds got it, the Galactic Republic was the first galaxy spanning government. They would have never built something capable of destroying planets.


Centrepoint station... from its location it was able to project enough artificial gravity to cause a star in another system to nova, in its own system. The Republic didn't just have a planetkiller (it didn't even have an army, remember? (though I could be wrong there, I'm just taking it from the movies) ) it had a system killer! so you don't need to argue why the republic wouldn't build something to kill planets. Not that your points are invalid, hehe. (at least, I think it was called centrepoint...)

Centrepoint station... from its location it was able to project enough artificial gravity to cause a star in another system to nova, in its own system. The Republic didn't just have a planetkiller (it didn't even have an army, remember? (though I could be wrong there, I'm just taking it from the movies) ) it had a system killer! so you don't need to argue why the republic wouldn't build something to kill planets. Not that your points are invalid, hehe. (at least, I think it was called centrepoint...)

The one in Corellia? Well, technically, the Republic didn't build it. Some ancient alien race who are responsible for the entire Corellian system did, and they built it to move planets through hyperspace, not destroy systems. No one discovered its destructive abilities until recently.

By the way, I was waiting for someone to bring up Centerpoint Station.

Star Wars: 1
Warhammer 40K: 0

LOL YOU MUST BE A POSER. I must be one of the few who actually play it.

Listen to logic people.

4,600 years of having space travel and lightsabers, and the Star Wars universe only recently created a space station capable of planetary destruction, and only one of those weapons per station.
40K has much bigger potential. Have you EVER READ THE HORUS HERESY?

Call me a poser will you? Shut the fuck up retard.

It's indeed Centerpoint Station. Rumor and legend has it that the Five Sisters of Corellia (as far as I know the name of the collective planets of the system) was moved artificially with it by a race that was, before the Republic. Perhaps the Rakata race or whatever that's mentioned in KoTOR.

It's indeed Centerpoint Station. Rumor and legend has it that the Five Sisters of Corellia (as far as I know the name of the collective planets of the system) was moved artificially with it by a race that was, before the Republic. Perhaps the Rakata race or whatever that's mentioned in KoTOR.

*Shudders*

KotOR is, generally, not considered a real part of the Star Wars storyline. It flat out contradicts established history at several points. Damned fine games, though.

The Chaos gods coul beat up the Q. The Emperor could, in his prime, take on the Klingons with the Custodes.Eaaasy.

Result:many dead Klingons and a 40K victory.

:headbang: :gundge: :sniper: :mp5:

Of course you know no one knows how many Q there even are. Sorry, but an entire race of quasi omnipotent beings seem hardly a pushover.

Against completely omnipotent beings (Khorne, Nurgle, Khaine, the C'Tan, and the like) they are most certainly pushovers.

I don't know about the rest of the gods, but the C'tan do not seem completely omnipotent from what I have heard.

:headbang: :gundge: :sniper: :mp5:

Of course you know no one knows how many Q there even are. Sorry, but an entire race of quasi omnipotent beings seem hardly a pushover.

Considering their love for not interfering and the fact that they CAN be killed...

The one in Corellia? Well, technically, the Republic didn't build it. Some ancient alien race who are responsible for the entire Corellian system did, and they built it to move planets through hyperspace, not destroy systems. No one discovered its destructive abilities until recently.

By the way, I was waiting for someone to bring up Centerpoint Station.

Star Wars: 1
Warhammer 40K: 0

The forces of Chaos possess the Blackstone Fortresses, also known as the Talismans of Vaul, which they captured from the Imperium during the Gothic War, one of Abaddon's Black Crusades. They are weapons originally designed by the Eldar millions of years ago to kill the C'tan. They do this by pulling entire planets into the warp. They had to make these as the C'tan can only be permanently be killed by being eaten by another C'tan or by having all of their energy sucked into the Warp.

:headbang: :gundge: :sniper: :mp5:

Of course you know no one knows how many Q there even are. Sorry, but an entire race of quasi omnipotent beings seem hardly a pushover.
Would people just stop using so many smilies?

Quasi-omnipotent beings, against truly immortal, truly omnipotent, omniscient Gods with hordes of very ugly looking daemons at their beck and call. Heck, even the lowest of daemons cannot truly die.

I've never heard of Warhammer or 40k, but Star Wars could beat both of them and Star Trek becuase of the Death Star. Especially if they had both of them. And they have the force.

The 40k universie would win hands down. More man power, Better weaponry, better psychic powers, and the ability to destroy an entire plant at the call of a single Inquisitor to a "Black Ship", it is called Exterminatus :sniper: ! In star wars they have the equally cool Deathstar, but there was only 1 or 2 ,and I know of no weapon equal to these in the Star Trek Uni., and there are thousands of 40k Inquisition Black Ships! Oh yeah and the alien races in 40k may be fewer in number compared to the Universes of the Star Wars & Star Trek Uni's but far more deadly!

SW has the ability to glass a planet as well. An ISD can melt the surface of a world in an operation called a Base Delta Zero.

*Shudders*

KotOR is, generally, not considered a real part of the Star Wars storyline. It flat out contradicts established history at several points. Damned fine games, though.
Actually, we use the cutscenes and major plotpoints as part of the storyline. Of course, there's an alternate ending when you (Revan) turn Dark Side, but the lightside ending seems to be the one mostly likely to be in the 'main' Star Wars timeline.

BTW, the main story of KotOR is set about 4,000 years before the Battle of Yavin, and a few years after the Exar Kun arc of the Jedi/Sith Wars, so it actually doesn't contradict anything.

Star Wars Supremacists should keep in mind that, while Star Wars is great, all they had to do to ruin the Death Star was fly an X-Wing up its ass.

Star Wars Supremacists should keep in mind that, while Star Wars is great, all they had to do to ruin the Death Star was fly an X-Wing up its ass.
Context, my friend, context. Context is the key here. The only reason why Tarkin didn't just send a thousand TIEs after the 30 snubfighters that protected Yavin IV was that he was a supremely arrogant git, believing in the power of his 'invincible' station. As it is, a couple of squadrons were likely thrown out to distract most of the fighters, including Vader and co. Oh, and the only reason why they managed to destroy it at all was because Luke Skywalker was Force-Sensitive enough to guide the torpedoes into the 2-meter-wide exhaust port!

Actually, we use the cutscenes and major plotpoints as part of the storyline. Of course, there's an alternate ending when you (Revan) turn Dark Side, but the lightside ending seems to be the one mostly likely to be in the 'main' Star Wars timeline.

BTW, the main story of KotOR is set about 4,000 years before the Battle of Yavin, and a few years after the Exar Kun arc of the Jedi/Sith Wars, so it actually doesn't contradict anything.

Ehh, I'll have to direct you to the Star Wars board on gamefaqs.com and a user named "CorporateMastermind".

Context, my friend, context. Context is the key here. The only reason why Tarkin didn't just send a thousand TIEs after the 30 snubfighters that protected Yavin IV was that he was a supremely arrogant git, believing in the power of his 'invincible' station. As it is, a couple of squadrons were likely thrown out to distract most of the fighters, including Vader and co. Oh, and the only reason why they managed to destroy it at all was because Luke Skywalker was Force-Sensitive enough to guide the torpedoes into the 2-meter-wide exhaust port!


That was just because Luke is a terrible shot with his torpedoes :)

Hey guys, lets just face the facts. Luke Skywalker is whinny. He sucks, Vader should have shot him down at the death star before he reliesed Luke was his son. To quote game informer "If your son was as whinny as luke, you'd cut his hand off too." The sith would kick Luke's ass anyday. Go Sith, Go!!! :)

Hey guys, lets just face the facts. Luke Skywalker is whinny. He sucks, Vader should have shot him down at the death star before he reliesed Luke was his son. To quote game informer "If your son was as whinny as luke, you'd cut his hand off too." The sith would kick Luke's ass anyday. Go Sith, Go!!! :)

*Snickers*, let me direct you about 20 or so years later to a little part of a series called the New Jedi Order. Here, the author describes part of a campaign to defeat the religious-fanatics that are known as the Yuuzhan Vong and retake the enemy-held Coruscant.

In most places the stairway wasn't wide enough for the two people to stand abreast, and in those stretches Luke had to face the brunt of the attacks. He was his own vortex, deflecting amphistaff strikes, whiplike lashes, and spurts of deadly venom; dodging or redirecting flights of thud bugs; parrying the thrusts of coufees, to side-step, duck, maneuver his body in ways that seemed to defy gravity. Stunned or burned by Luke's green blade, thud bugs were ricocheting from the walls and high celing, chipping away at the yorik coral surface. Dropped in their tracks, warriors sprawled with hands pressed to stumps of legs and opened foreheads, or with black blood welling where the lightsaber has found defensless areas between living armor and tattooed flesh.
Jacen recalled watching his uncle on Belkaden, where the war had begun, wielding two lightsabers when he had come to Jacen's rescue. But the rescue in Belkaden paled in comparison to the control Luke demonstrated now.
His single blade might as well be ten, or twenty.
He took the steps at a lightning pace, burning his way through dilating membranes but in complete control of his momentum. Seen through the Force he was a maelstrom of luminous energy, a Force storm against where there was no shelter. And yet all his energy poured from a calm center; an eye. He made no missteps. None of his actions were interrupted by thought.
In fact, Luke didn't seem to be there at all-physically, or as an individual personality...He wasn't even breathing heavily.

I rest my case.

Ok, so luke can use the force really well. But he isn't as cool as Mace Windu, or Yoda were.

The forces of Chaos possess the Blackstone Fortresses, also known as the Talismans of Vaul, which they captured from the Imperium during the Gothic War, one of Abaddon's Black Crusades. They are weapons originally designed by the Eldar millions of years ago to kill the C'tan. They do this by pulling entire planets into the warp. They had to make these as the C'tan can only be permanently be killed by being eaten by another C'tan or by having all of their energy sucked into the Warp.

Someone doesn't know what Centerpoint Station is.

It's a weapon that can move planets through hyperspace, blow up stars from thousands of light-years away, and just generally kick ass and take names.

Someone doesn't know what Centerpoint Station is.

It's a weapon that can move planets through hyperspace, blow up stars from thousands of light-years away, and just generally kick ass and take names.

I've read about centerpoint. Wasn't it in the Correlian saga? I'm not sure what book it's in...

All 3 of them in my opinion

interesting.

Two Words:

Tau Railgun.

Two Words:

Tau Railgun.

One word:

Superlaser