NationStates Jolt Archive

Surely you mispoke (miswrote?) here? The crusades were not in Europe were they?

They started off in Greace - I miswrote something, the Arabs were attacking Greek villages in the south. The Pope ordered the European Armies to unite to defend Greace. However wanting to create a buffer and take back our Holy Land the Pope ordered to continue the march into Israel.

The pope is old and shtoopid!

They were to take Jerusalem (oh look Jewish) from the muslims! :D But I suspect that greedy pope had other plans in mind...

Yerusalem is our land!

It's the Jews land!

And stop defending the stupid pope and catholics. lol

Yerusalem is our land!

Out of curiosity, why did you spell Jerusalem with a "Y"? Even if you are going for a direct transliteration, "Yerushalaim" would be closer to the original.

And I'm pretty sure the Khazars converted to Judaism. It was only the ruling class, anyway, so I highly doubt they integrated with the Ashkenazi Jews.

Would you happen to be catholic, Stormforge?

Austrealite- you must be a fan of Martin Luther. You sound like his book:

"If I had to refute all the other articles of the Jewish faith, I should be obliged to write against them as much and for as long a time as they have used for inventing their lies-- that is, longer than two thousand years."

[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]

It's the Jews land!

It is their land because they lied, cheated, betrayed etc to get it.

Out of curiosity, why did you spell Jerusalem with a "Y"? Even if you are going for a direct transliteration, "Yerushalaim" would be closer to the original.

And I'm pretty sure the Khazars converted to Judaism. It was only the ruling class, anyway, so I highly doubt they integrated with the Ashkenazi Jews.

The Khazars ancestor is Togarmah who's ancestor is Gomer (ironic his name means "Fall, come to an end" whos ancestor is Japeth who's name means "Sillly one, Delude, DECIEVE (how do you think the Jews got our land any way!) They hardly Freed it!

Would you happen to be catholic, Stormforge?

If I am, don't tell my parents. They might demand all my bar mitzvah gifts back.

Austrealite- you must be a fan of Martin Luther. You sound like his book:

"If I had to refute all the other articles of the Jewish faith, I should be obliged to write against them as much and for as long a time as they have used for inventing their lies-- that is, longer than two thousand years."

[Martin Luther,"On the Jews and Their Lies",1543]

I'm Lutheran, but never seen his book(s)

They had it when Jesus was there, they can have it now as far as I'm concerned. Anyway, would you rather have it be a muslim country? Is that the kind of place you want Jesus to come back to find? Peh! I don't see how you could be against the Holy City being Jewish in comparison to being muslim, foo!

If I am, don't tell my parents. They might demand all my bar mitzvah gifts back.

I wanna bar mitzvah :( even though i'm not Jewish.

It is tough to be a Christian in a post-Christian world (I would assert that the Judeo-Christian values that formed most governments in the West have moved past values to tolerance), just as it is tough to be a non-Christian. (God never said it'd be easy, only that He'd be here with us.) It's hard to disagree without being judgemental (if anyone figures it out, let me know!). Being Christians does not give us a position from which to attack others (beware of pride), rather a command to love. Faith is not an intellectual pursuit (see Bonhoeffer's, "Cost of Discipleship"); all we can do is pray for non-Christians to open their hearts. When it all comes down to it, it's between the individual and God. We live in a crazy, flawed world. . .

I wanna bar mitzvah :( even though i'm not Jewish.

Me,too! Me, too! I'm even cut! :eek:

It is tough to be a Christian in a post-Christian world (I would assert that the Judeo-Christian values that formed most governments in the West have moved past values to tolerance), just as it is tough to be a non-Christian. (God never said it'd be easy, only that He'd be here with us.) It's hard to disagree without being judgemental (if anyone figures it out, let me know!). Being Christians does not give us a position from which to attack others (beware of pride), rather a command to love. Faith is not an intellectual pursuit (see Bonhoeffer's, "Cost of Discipleship"); all we can do is pray for non-Christians to open their hearts. When it all comes down to it, it's between the individual and God. We live in a crazy, flawed world. . .

I suggest you run far, far away from this forum in your best interest. Seriously. We're not gonna convert anybody here.

They had it when Jesus was there, they can have it now as far as I'm concerned. Anyway, would you rather have it be a muslim country? Is that the kind of place you want Jesus to come back to find? Peh! I don't see how you could be against the Holy City being Jewish in comparison to being muslim, foo!

I doubt Yahsha would be happy that the Jewish people run his land, Gods Land. Why do you think he told his Apostles not to go into any cities of the Samaritans - Matthew 10:5 because they were run by the Jewish people back then. King Herod was a Edomite Jew, remember him? He was the King who had all the babies killed trying to kill Yahsha.

We live in a crazy, flawed world. . .

"The universe is not hostile, nor yet is it friendly. It is simply indifferent."

[John H. Holmes, A Sensible Man's View of Religion, 1933]

I wanna bar mitzvah :( even though i'm not Jewish.

You're damn right. Bar mitzvah's are great! I got to have mine in Isra... I mean Palestine. I even got to see the Occupied City of Jerusalem! I walked the path Jesus took to his crucifixion. Heck, I even got to enter the Dome of the Rock. Imagine that. I can only hope that the Palestinians are successful in their cause, so that the Holy City can be free once again for everyone to visit.

But if you really want that bar mitzvah, you can always convert. Oh wait, I'm not supposed to do that. Uh yeah. Judaism sucks. Totally not worth the effort. I mean, you have to learn an entire language. What's up with that? And then the years and years of study. Yeah, just don't even bother. I mean, we've been waiting for the messiah for 5000 years and he still hasn't shown up. Christians have had their's for 2000 years already. I think you know which one to choose.

And Austrealite, you need to take some history lessons.

EDIT: Also, get your dang transliterations right. It's Yeshua, not Yahsha or whatever the heck you have.

"The universe is not hostile, nor yet is it friendly. It is simply indifferent."

[John H. Holmes, A Sensible Man's View of Religion, 1933]

Concur. . . but we're talking about people! We can't be indifferent. . . We have to categorize everything around us or our brains would explode from sensory overload!

I doubt Yahsha would be happy that the Jewish people run his land, Gods Land. Why do you think he told his Apostles not to go into any cities of the Samaritans - Matthew 10:5 because they were run by the Jewish people back then. King Herod was a Edomite Jew, remember him? He was the King who had all the babies killed trying to kill Yahsha.

Because back then the corrupt Jewish and Roman officials were prosecuting Christians. Why wouldn't he be happy? He's a Jew after all, and they are his people. Even if they were all fakes, counterfeits, etc. wouldnt that be better with them being Jewish than muslim? Oh this is impossible, we don't agree on a fundamental level, so this is pretty pointless.

I doubt Yahsha would be happy that the Jewish people run his land, Gods Land. Why do you think he told his Apostles not to go into any cities of the Samaritans - Matthew 10:5 because they were run by the Jewish people back then. King Herod was a Edomite Jew, remember him? He was the King who had all the babies killed trying to kill Yahsha.

Wouldn't Jesus have been a false jew? Since what's-his-name put false jews in Israel?

You're damn right. Bar mitzvah's are great! I got to have mine in Isra... I mean Palestine. I even got to see the Occupied City of Jerusalem! I walked the path Jesus took to his crucifixion. Heck, I even got to enter the Dome of the Rock. Imagine that. I can only hope that the Palestinians are successful in their cause, so that the Holy City can be free once again for everyone to visit.

But if you really want that bar mitzvah, you can always convert. Oh wait, I'm not supposed to do that. Uh yeah. Judaism sucks. Totally not worth the effort. I mean, you have to learn an entire language. What's up with that? And then the years and years of study. Yeah, just don't even bother. I mean, we've been waiting for the messiah for 5000 years and he still hasn't shown up. Christians have had their's for 2000 years already. I think you know which one to choose.

And Austrealite, you need to take some history lessons.

EDIT: Also, get your dang transliterations right. It's Yeshua, not Yahsha or whatever the heck you have.

You are crazy. Go to sleep.

Wouldn't Jesus have been a false jew? Since what's-his-name put false jews in Israel?
:O Doesn't that make Austrealite a blasphemer?

You are crazy. Go to sleep.

But I like seeing Austrealite flail about. Even if he is just a troll.

But I like seeing Austrealite flail about. Even if he is just a troll.

Ok, but quick, go fetch me a catholic to debate!

You're damn right. Bar mitzvah's are great! I got to have mine in Isra... I mean Palestine. I even got to see the Occupied City of Jerusalem! I walked the path Jesus took to his crucifixion. Heck, I even got to enter the Dome of the Rock. Imagine that. I can only hope that the Palestinians are successful in their cause, so that the Holy City can be free once again for everyone to visit.

But if you really want that bar mitzvah, you can always convert. Oh wait, I'm not supposed to do that. Uh yeah. Judaism sucks. Totally not worth the effort. I mean, you have to learn an entire language. What's up with that? And then the years and years of study. Yeah, just don't even bother. I mean, we've been waiting for the messiah for 5000 years and he still hasn't shown up. Christians have had their's for 2000 years already. I think you know which one to choose.

And Austrealite, you need to take some history lessons.

EDIT: Also, get your dang transliterations right. It's Yeshua, not Yahsha or whatever the heck you have.

It is Yahshua, but I use Yahsha for short. And you haven't been waiting for you messiah for 5000 years, Judaism was first created in Babylon, a counterfeit religion.

King Herod was a Edomite Jew, remember him? He was the King who had all the babies killed trying to kill Yahsha.

There really are historical problems with this line. There is no mention of it outside of the bible. Surely Josephus would have mentioned it if it had occurred. He was no fan of Herod. It seems more probable that it was made up by "Luke" to show another brilliant "fulfilled prophecy."

Because back then the corrupt Jewish and Roman officials were prosecuting Christians. Why wouldn't he be happy? He's a Jew after all, and they are his people. Even if they were all fakes, counterfeits, etc. wouldnt that be better with them being Jewish than muslim? Oh this is impossible, we don't agree on a fundamental level, so this is pretty pointless.

He wasn't Jewish, he was an Israelite. We don't agree, but I assure you, Muslim or Jew, both shouldn't be in true Israel.

It is Yahshua, but I use Yahsha for short. And you haven't been waiting for you messiah for 5000 years, Judaism was first created in Babylon, a counterfeit religion.

Yeesh, what base can you possibly now have for your faith? I'm baffled by your debasing of yourself!!!

I have no particular organized religion but I suppose the "values" I was raised upon would be a really, really, really liberal version of christianity. I've only really been insulted/badgered once or twice I think about it.

I believe in accepting everyone's relgious point of view one way or another. As far as anti-Christian behaviour goes I haven't really seen it much if at all as long as they don't try and tell other people that their God is the one true one and that we're all going to hell etc etc. No religion should be touted in such a way however and I'd be equally annoyed if it was anyone else doing that.

Around my school we have a very liberal-minded environment with organizations in it such as WARR (What About Rights and Resources), GSA (Gay/Straight Alliance) and I do believe there is a Christian group in the school. They all recieve the exact same amount of funding because they don't really care what the club/group is for, just that it is there.

Really though..why can't everyone just get along? Talking about religion shouldn't be outlawed in public for that is how we learn about other cultures/ways of thinking as long as no one holds their religion over people.

I'm from Canada though so it may be a different "vibe" in USA than here.

Wouldn't Jesus have been a false jew? Since what's-his-name put false jews in Israel?

No, Yahsha was a true Israelite, descendant of King David. The Assyrian King placed other races in Israel including many false Jews. These Jews became the High Priest - I quoted 2nd Kings. Read that more for details. That is why the High Priest were trying to have Yahsha killed. He knew who they were, or more importantly who they were not. There were still true Israelites in Israel of the time, not many though, remember the Messiah had to be born in Bethlehem.

So are you trying to say the true Israelites, true Jews, died out when Jesus was killed and the house of David was no more like prophecy foretold?

Yeesh, what base can you possibly now have for your faith? I'm baffled by your debasing of yourself!!!

Hebrewism (What King David etc believed in) became Christainty or Messianic Hebrewism. Judaism was stolen with the Talmud added in.

There really are historical problems with this line. There is no mention of it outside of the bible. Surely Josephus would have mentioned it if it had occurred. He was no fan of Herod. It seems more probable that it was made up by "Luke" to show another brilliant "fulfilled prophecy."

It isn't mentioned outside the Bible because it only is relevent to Christians or Messianic Israelites.

You should check out Biblical Errancy you might find it challanging


http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld/

So are you trying to say the true Israelites, true Jews, died out when Jesus was killed and the house of David was no more like prophecy foretold?

There never was a "True Jew" - damn it, must I explain again? The word "Jew" didn't turn up in scripture until 2nd Kings, and even so the word was ****ed up. It should have been "Loudean" - which means Resident of Judah. That is where the Jews adopted the name from.

So are you trying to say the true Israelites, true Jews, died out when Jesus was killed and the house of David was no more like prophecy foretold?

No, he's saying the true Israelites became Christians. While I don't agree with that interpretation, I can see where he got it from.

Conflabit people! :D You need a specialist. Just bring me some catholics or i'm going to bed.

If you want to be truly Christian, have the faith, strength, dignity and humility to turn the other cheek, for the meek shall inherit the earth. Christianity or any religion is not a club or a way to distinguish yourself from others, it is a way to devote your life to God and follow Jesus' teachings. He still loved the world even though it nailed him to a cross. Think about that.

Now Some people here are CONFUSING CHRISTIANITY with THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH AND ITS ACTIONS.

i believe the Church and organized Christianity are right up there on the list of Most Evil and Destructive Organizations of All Time. now, i can recognize the difference between the evils of the organization and the evils of individual Christianity...but that's like the difference between the evils of the KKK and the evils of individual KKK members. for example, if you are a Catholic then you support an organization that is involved in mass murder at this very moment, an organization that is perpetuating a deadly plague through deliberate lies. to me, it doesn't matter if you personally are helping to spread those lies, because your support of the organization is an endorsement of their actions.


BUT listen to this it was Christianity who gave a meaning and moral values to peoples lives.

really? i guess Chinese people have no meaning in their lives, then? despite having a culture than has flourished for milenia longer than Christianity has existed?

the arrogance and idiocy of your statement is blinding. please remember: THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ON EARTH ARE NOT CHRISTIAN. the vast majority of people on Earth do not derive their life's meaning from Christianty, and this has ALWAYS been the case, throughout history. Christians are a minority, always have been, and to say that Chrisitanity is necessary to give life meaning is like saying that purple shoes are necessary to make walking possible.


Before Christianity was introduced there was a period of falling moral values, a period were people had bisexual and homosexual orgies and the society was on the decline.

yeah, 'cause you know that people being gay is a clear indicator of immorality....:P


Then Cristianity came to add a meaning to peoples lives and it did.

dude, even hear of the DARK AGES?! when Christianity was at its prime, the area of the world that it controlled was wallowing in ignorance, poverty, crime, and suffering. it wasn't until the Enlightenment, when Christianity began to LOSE power, that Western civilization as we know it could begin. Christianity as an organization has been one of the biggest impediments to actual civilization in the Western world...read a damn book (other than the Bible).


We can see that by the number of Christians present today.

yes, because we all know that the number of people who believe in something is what determines how healthy or true it must be. you are the absolute definition of a sheep if you buy that..."gee, a whole lot of people believe this, so i had better believe it too! after all, lots and lots of people will agree with me!"

remember the Messiah had to be born in Bethlehem.

Um, Joseph may have been a decendant of David according to the bible, but Jesus was a descendant of god(?) since Joseph was his father in name only.

Again there are historical problems with the Bethlahem birth of Jesus. There is no record of the silly type of census except in the bible. It seems more probable that the story was wriiten that way so as to appear to be fulfilling prophecy just like your previous Herod story.

There are no catholics to be had here! I'm done, good night. I'll debate some more in a few hours when I get some sleeep.....

Um, Joseph may have been a decendant of David according to the bible, but Jesus was a descendant of god(?) since Joseph was his father in name only.

Again there are historical problems with the Bethlahem birth of Jesus. There is no record of the silly type of census except in the bible. It seems more probable that the story was wriiten that way so as to appear to be fulfilling prophecy just like your previous Herod story.

All you are doing is calling the Bible a book of lies. I might as well debate with a brick wall because that is what I feel like I'm doing with you. Just the same old come back...yet you haven't proved it wrong. Your Jewish? That would make sense, see your not an Israelite and thus Yahsha didn't come to you. Lazarus was an Israelite and this was proved by the fact he believed in Yahsha.

There are no catholics to be had here! I'm done, good night. I'll debate some more in a few hours when I get some sleeep.....
Me, too. Daylight has caught me up again.

A final quote from Luther, the founder of your sect:

"The Devil can so completely assume the human form, when he wants to deceive us, that we may well lie with what seems to be a woman, of real flesh and blood, and yet all the while 'tis only the Devil in the shape of a woman. Tis the same with women, who may think that a man is in bed with them, yet 'tis only the Devil; and...the result of this connection is oftentimes an imp of darkness, half mortal, half devil...."

[Martin Luther]

I'll say hello to her for you! :fluffle:

Um, Joseph may have been a decendant of David according to the bible, but Jesus was a descendant of god(?) since Joseph was his father in name only.

Again there are historical problems with the Bethlahem birth of Jesus. There is no record of the silly type of census except in the bible. It seems more probable that the story was wriiten that way so as to appear to be fulfilling prophecy just like your previous Herod story.

The concept of fatherhood was different in Jesus' time from what it is today. Regardless of whether Jesus is the son of Joseph or not, the fact that Joseph was married to his mother made Jesus his son and an adoptive descendant of Josephs line.

There is, in fact, plenty of archaeological evidence about the census' that were conducted around the time of Jesus' birth. There were the census of Quirinius as well as the census of Augustus Caesar. Simply typing those words in google (census of quirinius) will give you plenty of refferences (though not as reliable as if you go to your library and research books on the topic).

It is Yahshua, but I use Yahsha for short. And you haven't been waiting for you messiah for 5000 years, Judaism was first created in Babylon, a counterfeit religion.
yeah, christianity was first created in egypt, except they called their savioud horus.

then again, in babylon, from mithras.

stop copying other religions, you blasphemer against horus!


.... that's my fun for the day, i'm going to work.

i believe the Church and organized Christianity are right up there on the list of Most Evil and Destructive Organizations of All Time. now, i can recognize the difference between the evils of the organization and the evils of individual Christianity...but that's like the difference between the evils of the KKK and the evils of individual KKK members. for example, if you are a Catholic then you support an organization that is involved in mass murder at this very moment, an organization that is perpetuating a deadly plague through deliberate lies. to me, it doesn't matter if you personally are helping to spread those lies, because your support of the organization is an endorsement of their actions.


really? i guess Chinese people have no meaning in their lives, then? despite having a culture than has flourished for milenia longer than Christianity has existed?

the arrogance and idiocy of your statement is blinding. please remember: THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ON EARTH ARE NOT CHRISTIAN. the vast majority of people on Earth do not derive their life's meaning from Christianty, and this has ALWAYS been the case, throughout history. Christians are a minority, always have been, and to say that Chrisitanity is necessary to give life meaning is like saying that purple shoes are necessary to make walking possible.


yeah, 'cause you know that people being gay is a clear indicator of immorality....:P


dude, even hear of the DARK AGES?! when Christianity was at its prime, the area of the world that it controlled was wallowing in ignorance, poverty, crime, and suffering. it wasn't until the Enlightenment, when Christianity began to LOSE power, that Western civilization as we know it could begin. Christianity as an organization has been one of the biggest impediments to actual civilization in the Western world...read a damn book (other than the Bible).


yes, because we all know that the number of people who believe in something is what determines how healthy or true it must be. you are the absolute definition of a sheep if you buy that..."gee, a whole lot of people believe this, so i had better believe it too! after all, lots and lots of people will agree with me!"
To everyone else on this thread: more of this kind of argument ^ and less of the other shit and the thread might actually be worth reading again.

Ah yes I am to the defense of Catholics because I know many who don't worship the Saints but only God.

And the Jews descend from another group altogether. I'll copy some stuff I made on another thread. But what I call the current Jews now would be "Counterfeits"

Noah had 3 sons. Shem, Ham, Japeth. Ham had no sons, Shem ancestor to Abraham, and Japeth had 2 sons. These sons were Magog and Gomer. Magog had no descendants, Gomer had 3 sons. These being Ashkenaz, Ripath and Togarmah. Togarmah and Ashkenaz are the ancestors of the Ashkenazic jews. The Khazars or the "13th Tribe" are descendants of Togarmah and this group of people are found in modern Jewry. But not only them, Isaac had 2 sons Jacob/Israel, and Esau. Esau is the ancestor to the Edomites, who also comprise modern Jewry.

The Khazar Empire was destroyed by Genghis Khan etc, they migrated into and around Poland, they then changed their name back from Khazars back to their family name "Ashkenazic"

Genesis 10:6 "And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan".

What were they, then, stuck on with glue?

Help Mel Gibson's film win a fair shot at the Academy Awards:

http://www.passionforfairness.com/

Help Mel Gibson's film win a fair shot at the Academy Awards:

http://www.passionforfairness.com/
:rolleyes:
You guys act like there's some huge conspiracy to destroy everything remotely related to christianity. Get a grip--you folks are in charge right now. If anyone's in danger of being wiped out, it's the people who are proudly and openly secular.

Help Mel Gibson's film win a fair shot at the Academy Awards:

http://www.passionforfairness.com/

Wanna know why it won't win?

It explains a lot about the Academy Awards.

It won't win...because it sucks.

That's right, it won't win an award because it SUxx0rZ teh BIGONE!oneoneone

Help Mel Gibson's film win a fair shot at the Academy Awards:

http://www.passionforfairness.com/
I think it deserves its fair shot but you know what I thought it was a bad movie so ... not going to try too hard

We can only pray.......
Lol thats all you can do?

Genesis 10:6 "And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan".

What were they, then, stuck on with glue?

I didn't add Hams sons, because they were not relevent to the topic at hand.

yeah, christianity was first created in egypt, except they called their savioud horus.

then again, in babylon, from mithras.

stop copying other religions, you blasphemer against horus!


.... that's my fun for the day, i'm going to work.

This proves what has been said for years..."DRUGS ARE ****ING BAD"

What a stupid and false thing to say.

i believe the Church and organized Christianity are right up there on the list of Most Evil and Destructive Organizations of All Time. now, i can recognize the difference between the evils of the organization and the evils of individual Christianity...but that's like the difference between the evils of the KKK and the evils of individual KKK members. for example, if you are a Catholic then you support an organization that is involved in mass murder at this very moment, an organization that is perpetuating a deadly plague through deliberate lies. to me, it doesn't matter if you personally are helping to spread those lies, because your support of the organization is an endorsement of their actions.

Do remember that *many* Christians do not affiliate themselves with any form of organized religion at all - much for exactly the same reasons you state. Every denomination I have yet seen has been rather corrupt and has had major flaws, which is why I haven't affiliated myself with any of them.

What really upsets me is that none of them even have the slightest clue of Christianity but bash it as if they know ever detail.

And it hasn't just been like it at work but every where I have been I have seen it. Has it risen in your area lately?

I was a Christian. So yes, I do know a little about it, quite a bit actually. Doesn't change the fact I still don't like people who claim to be Christians and act otherwise.

No, it really hasn't risen in this area. Of course, I do live in a very conservative area of the U.S. so a lot of people are Christians.

This proves what has been said for years..."DRUGS ARE ****ING BAD"

What a stupid and false thing to say.

My favorite part of this post was when you flamed without actually answering anything, while proving yourself incredibly ignorant.

Christians being ridiculed and belittled because of their faith? HA HA!

I love poetic justice...

Every where I go I see it, the filth that these anti Christ spread in an attempt to shut us up, to make us stray from the flock. One such instance is at work; I have been there for about 2 months now and have never had a problem with anyone. Once I got asked the question "did you get a **** on the weekend?" I responded that I was Christian and that it was in my view and faith immoral to have sex out of wedlock. Well needless to say after that I have received nothing but insults about my faith. From questions that can be debated with to ones of pure rubbish (I won't post the questions but many are sick)

What really upsets me is that none of them even have the slightest clue of Christianity but bash it as if they know ever detail.

And it hasn't just been like it at work but every where I have been I have seen it. Has it risen in your area lately?

I get lazier each day, so I haven't read this whole thread. Let me address your post, specifically. Your response to the rude question was appropriate as it expressed your lifestyle and let folks know that you were not open to such discussion. The insults and garbage that was directed at you at that point was not worth your attention. Just as your statement made your values apparent, theirs did, too.

I know that there are some on here who take an anti-Christian stance with little knowledge of the subject. The best thing you can do is to answer their points with logic and facts. If they are just trying to stir up an argument, ignore them.

You know what is in your heart and no one can make you deny that. I try never to push my faith on anyone, but will answer any questions concerning it. There are a number of people here who are as devout in their faith as you are in yours...Jews, Muslims. As Christians we believe firmly in Jesus. They believe just as strongly in their faiths. One thing most people of faith have in common is a belief in one God. I believe that He is the same.

My favorite part of this post was when you flamed without actually answering anything, while proving yourself incredibly ignorant.


I liked that too.

religion is not nesseary for commmunist strength.
the state can produce its own joy through strength of its military.

opening doors to free thinking is unthikable.. the entire state would collapse..

life under soviet rule is preffered

religion is anti-God

I read that anti-christianism was a serious problem in Greenland. In the city of Krmapuquak, christians are attacked by anti-christianists frequently.

This proves what has been said for years..."DRUGS ARE ****ING BAD"

What a stupid and false thing to say.
stupid and false? (and i don't see what drugs have to do with anything here...)

just like you saying that judaism is a false religion?

buddy, so you know, it was documented before christianity, jesus was a jew.

and look up the stories of horus and mithras... you'll find some striking similarlities that predate the stories of christ for whom there is no actual historical evidence. you would think that he'd have shown up in an execution order or a census... but yeah, born december 25th (horus) january 6th (mithras, for some time it was the celebrated day of jesus' birth as well) all three were visited by shepherds and wise men, horus was called a lamb, a shepherd et c. he was born in a city whose name translates to place of bread while jesus was supposed to have been born in a city whose name means house of bread. all three were hung on a cross, atop a hill, with thieves on either side. all three died around the vernal equinox.

this brings in an even older pagan worship, the sun, but that's another story.

stupid and false? (and i don't see what drugs have to do with anything here...)
I think he/she was trying to insinuate there was a drug-induced high involved here.

this brings in an even older pagan worship, the sun, but that's another story.
W00t heliolatry!

I think he/she was trying to insinuate there was a drug-induced high involved here.
i know. i wanted him to admit his attempt at subtle flaming though.

i do find it interesting that ad homeneim arguments are the last resort of those who have no response.

W00t heliolatry!
makes more sense than an invisible bearded sky wizard.

oh, also, i forgot to mention... the original title of god in the bible is elohim, which is plural and also refers to a pantheon of gods, which include el (the chief god), baal, and an assortment of other gods. when you combine this with the lack of denial of the existence of other gods earlier in the bible it seems to emphasize the pagan roots of judaism and by extention chrsitianity. it was likely that contact with the babylonians who had adopted zoroastrianism caused both religions to become monotheistic.

makes more sense than an invisible bearded sky wizard.
Indeed, I fully agree with you.

oh, also, i forgot to mention... the original title of god in the bible is elohim, which is plural and also refers to a pantheon of gods, which include el (the chief god), baal, and an assortment of other gods. when you combine this with the lack of denial of the existence of other gods earlier in the bible it seems to emphasize the pagan roots of judaism and by extention chrsitianity. it was likely that contact with the babylonians who had adopted zoroastrianism caused both religions to become monotheistic.
Really? That's fascinating! I had no idea that theh original term for God in the Bible is plural. Though I suspect you're referring to the Torah, since I don't think the New Testament was written in Hebrew. Now that you mention it, I believe that I've heard a word similar to that in Jewish prayers (I have Jewish relatives).

religion is anti-God

"Jesus Christ what on earth is that?!"
"Don't take my name in vain dad!"

Really? That's fascinating! I had no idea that theh original term for God in the Bible is plural. Though I suspect you're referring to the Torah, since I don't think the New Testament was written in Hebrew. Now that you mention it, I believe that I've heard a word similar to that in Jewish prayers (I have Jewish relatives).

Yes, "elohim" is the plural of the word "eloheinu" (God), but it's plural as a sign of respect. Similar to the way monarchs often refer to themselves as "We". It is true, though, that at its inception YHWHism (the religion that became Judaism) accepted the existence of other gods. The religion itself, however, was always monotheistic in the sense that it worshipped only one god. There's a word for worshipping one god while allowing for the existence of others, but I don't remember it.

The current theory is that YHWH was originally a war god, which explains the rampant violence in the early Old Testament, as well as the awesome power of the Ark of the Covenant. He later became a fertility/agricultural god, and only after the Hebrews were taken into capitivity did YHWH morph into the savior god we all know and love today. All the idol-destroying you see in the Old Testament was likely added later in an attempt to unify the Hebrew people, who were under cultural pressure from surrounding civilizations.

Yes, "elohim" is the plural of the word "eloheinu" (God), but it's plural as a sign of respect. Similar to the way monarchs often refer to themselves as "We". It is true, though, that at its inception YHWHism (the religion that became Judaism) accepted the existence of other gods. The religion itself, however, was always monotheistic in the sense that it worshipped only one god. There's a word for worshipping one god while allowing for the existence of others, but I don't remember it.
there's no more evidence that it was one god referred to as beign plural than there was as multiple gods... saying that it started out with many, feminine deities is just as valid as saying it was one feminine deity spoken to with a royal we. (elohim is also feminine, apparantly)

I read that anti-christianism was a serious problem in Greenland. In the city of Krmapuquak, christians are attacked by anti-christianists frequently.
theres hope for humanity

there's no more evidence that it was one god referred to as beign plural than there was as multiple gods... saying that it started out with many, feminine deities is just as valid as saying it was one feminine deity spoken to with a royal we. (elohim is also feminine, apparantly)

Yeah, that's the problem with trying to figure out what was going on in the minds of the early Hebrews. There's so little evidence for everything, that almost every single "theory" regarding early YHWHism is basically just conjecture.

Which brings me back to the Khazars. We have plenty of evidence regarding them. There's almost no chance that they were in any way related to the ancient Israelites. Only the ruling class was Jewish; everyone else was pagan.

EDIT: And, just to clarify, the ruling class converted to Judaism. It was one of the rare times in history when Jews actually proselytized.

Only the ruling class was Jewish; everyone else was pagan.
Marx would've loved to learn that. Proof of corruption beginning in the upper classes.

Yeah, that's the problem with trying to figure out what was going on in the minds of the early Hebrews. There's so little evidence for everything, that almost every single "theory" regarding early YHWHism is basically just conjecture.
the way i read it the bible, i see a transition from "there are other gods, but you don't want to worship them, that will make me angry. and you don't want to see me when i'm angry..." to "there are no other gods! worship only me!" and while i don't speak or read or understand hebrew (which would pose a problem trying to understand the original version of the old testament) it seems that when you factor in the original god being plural and feminine, there doesn't seem to be much room for a singular, male diety.

the way i read it the bible, i see a transition from "there are other gods, but you don't want to worship them, that will make me angry. and you don't want to see me when i'm angry..." to "there are no other gods! worship only me!" and while i don't speak or read or understand hebrew (which would pose a problem trying to understand the original version of the old testament) it seems that when you factor in the original god being plural and feminine, there doesn't seem to be much room for a singular, male diety.

Yeah, there's almost no doubt that the deity that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship now was once part of a pantheon. It's not that hard to see the development of "God" if you read the Bible critically.

But, uh, don't tell that to religious folk. They might try to lynch you or something.

Christians were supposed to be murdering bastards at one time, and got lots of respect and deference. Before that, they used to be passive and got slaughtered. Nowadays, Christains are told to be tolerant and accepting - by the same people who apparently take joy from seeing Christians get demeaned and beaten up.

Meanwhile, the Marxist atheists started out as murdering bastards and have gotten worse ever since. They seem to be the people most keen on having Christians be tolerant and accepting, and everyone else engaging in revolution and "struggle" against them.

There's a lesson in there somewhere. Perhaps the Muslim fundamentalists have learnt it already. Maybe that's why the Marxists are so chummy with them of late.

theres hope for humanity

The Krmapuquakuans are the future.

Do remember that *many* Christians do not affiliate themselves with any form of organized religion at all - much for exactly the same reasons you state. Every denomination I have yet seen has been rather corrupt and has had major flaws, which is why I haven't affiliated myself with any of them.
well, Demi, i think we've had this discussion before: you are one of the Christians who chooses which parts of the Bible to believe in based on morality that you already have decided on, and i don't see why you wouldn't just cut out the middle man and hold your beliefs without trying to find biblical references to them.

but yes, i understand that there are people who believe in Christianity but not the organizations. and i suppose i regard those people in much the same way i regard racists who aren't members of the KKK; i still think their beliefs are unhealthy, unreasonable, and unworthy of conscious and sane adults, but at least they aren't directly supporting the lynching of the opposition. i will also defend their right to continue holding their unhealthy, unreasonable, and unworthy beliefs, because it's every person's right to be as stupid as they please (and it harm none)...i know that i personally exercise that right on a daily basis, so who am i to tell others what to do? ;)

Every where I go I see it, the filth that these anti Christ spread in an attempt to shut us up, to make us stray from the flock. One such instance is at work; I have been there for about 2 months now and have never had a problem with anyone. Once I got asked the question "did you get a **** on the weekend?" I responded that I was Christian and that it was in my view and faith immoral to have sex out of wedlock. Well needless to say after that I have received nothing but insults about my faith. From questions that can be debated with to ones of pure rubbish (I won't post the questions but many are sick)

What really upsets me is that none of them even have the slightest clue of Christianity but bash it as if they know ever detail.

And it hasn't just been like it at work but every where I have been I have seen it. Has it risen in your area lately?

You do realize that if this did happen, you can sue under federal law for the violation of your rights as a christian? US federal law prohibits discrimination and harrassment in the workplace on the basis of religion. I advise filing a formal complaint with your employer and if they don't do anything, see an attorney.

Don't you DARE insult Mary.Even the protestants know not to inult her.

Spare me. Mary wasn't the first broad to claim that some deity knocked her up. Ever hear about Hercules? How about Perseus? His mother claimed that Zeus came to her as a golden shower. (Damn, those Greeks were kinky back in the day.)

Right. Of course, the fact that it isn't acceptable against any other faith never stopped you did it? Twice i've reported you for flaming, mostly on religious comments. Also, people always pick on the smallest, in todays world that is Judaism.

Oh yeah, poor Judaism. The holocaust was sixty years ago, sister, they have their own country now.

Is the most powerful country in the world currently at war with Judaism? No, so who's getting picked on in 'todays world'?

Alas we are the majority.
Christianity is the 2nd or 3rd religion by number of adherents, and that's only if you lump together many different groups who each think the other has misinterpreted it and will burn in hell.

don't be childish to come here and tell me to "STFU"
He was saying STFU because it's really lame to hear someone whining about the occasional rude remark in a world where people are regularly raped, killed, robbed, denied jobs, etc. over their faith. You want to be abused? Go be a Muslim in Israel, a Jew in South America, a Hindu in Pakistan, or a Christian in Muslim Africa.

his children crashing down.
"his children" come in two types; the decent, educated ones who respect others and don't take primitive superstition literally (Jesus always spoke in parables, allegory, etc., so WTF is up with that anyway?), and the savages who want to shove thier irrational beliefs down everyone else's throat.

I could tell which type you were just by your grammar and spelling.

people most keen on having Christians be tolerant and accepting......
The person who told you to be tolerant and accepting was called Jesus, not Marx.

Christians were supposed to be murdering bastards at one time, and got lots of respect and deference. Before that, they used to be passive and got slaughtered. Nowadays, Christains are told to be tolerant and accepting - by the same people who apparently take joy from seeing Christians get demeaned and beaten up.
more often than not, it doesn't result in a physical altercation.

also, more often than not, the christian starts it by acting holier than thou and condemning the atheist/agnostic/muslim/hindhu et c to hell for their sin of disbelief. i find that generally christians don't get told off like this in real life and if they do, it's usually because they've done just that, and if you read your bible, you'll see that jesus didn't really like that to start with...

I read that anti-christianism was a serious problem in Greenland. In the city of Krmapuquak, christians are attacked by anti-christianists frequently.
Xtian invaders were too weak to handle the northern climate and thus failed to completely extinguish native culture in the extreme north. Boo hoo.

BTW, where do you get your unsubstantiated rumors? That city name doesn't even appear in Google

Christianity is the 2nd or 3rd religion by number of adherents, and that's only if you lump together many different groups who each think the other has misinterpreted it and will burn in hell.
no, it is #1 in terms of adherents, however, islam is fastest growing and christianity is on a decline.

Xtian invaders were too weak to handle the northern climate and thus failed to completely extinguish native culture in the extreme north. Boo hoo.

BTW, where do you get your unsubstantiated rumors? That city name doesn't even appear in Google
it's too late, it's been said and for the purposes of this thread, everyone will refer to that post as proof of their side of the argument.

:rolleyes:
You guys act like there's some huge conspiracy to destroy everything remotely related to christianity. Get a grip--you folks are in charge right now. If anyone's in danger of being wiped out, it's the people who are proudly and openly secular. This is odd. Both sides believe that they're being threatened. What exactly is going on?

Bottle, the church is not a destructive organisation wholly. It actually does a lot of what can be thought of by anyone as good works - in the holocaust they actually hid Jews. Are you still saying that God raped Mary? Because God does a lot of things people don't ask for.

Would you happen to be catholic, Stormforge? When you come back online, I will be quite pleased to have a little chat (in an ominous tone).

This is odd. Both sides believe that they're being threatened. What exactly is going on?

Bottle, the church is not a destructive organisation wholly. It actually does a lot of what can be thought of by anyone as good works - in the holocaust they actually hid Jews. Are you still saying that God raped Mary? Because God does a lot of things people don't ask for.
And it managed to sneek around and hide jews (though not sure of the truth to that statement) they still managed to not have enough backbone to make a formal decleration against thoes actions.
way to not stand up for what you should be beliving in

And I like that point ... gods a rapist ... sounds like something from landover.

And it managed to sneek around and hide jews (though not sure of the truth to that statement) they still managed to not have enough backbone to make a formal decleration against thoes actions.
way to not stand up for what you should be beliving in

And I like that point ... gods a rapist ... sounds like something from landover. The pope publicy condemned the Nazis, actually. The only problem with doing more (although they DID publicy condemn them, and new evidence has been found of priests' works) was that the Vatican was smack bang in the middle of fascist Italy.

He did accuse God of being a rapist. What an immature, silly thing to say. I explained that God CREATED the child, and then he said that God did it without her consent. Well, God does a lot of things without consent: smiting, for example.

Oh dear, here cometh the flamethrower…

no, it is #1 in terms of adherents, however, islam is fastest growing and christianity is on a decline.
Top 5:
Islam, Catholicism, Hinduism, Protestantism, and Buddhism

Hindu and Buddhist are more similar than the "christian" sects, so don't even...

Oh come on, if you're going to divide Christians by the two factions, you should divide Islam too.

Oh come on, if you're going to divide Christians by the two factions, you should divide Islam too.
Protestantism is as distinct from Catholicism as Early Christianity is from Judiasm, and for the same exact reasons.

Go ask an educated NYC Lutheran his opinion of the southern born-agains who watch televangelists...even protestantism has splintered into a zillion competing factions.

Good argument could be made for Islam, too, no doubt.

Might be more meaningful to consider how many people believe in various versions of the world's oldest campfire story vs how many are rational...

The only problem with doing more was that the Vatican was smack bang in the middle of fascist Italy.
The Germans had a similar excuse, and it just doesn't wash.

In response to the title of this thread...

What, is the Christian Coalition on its toes? Sheesh, Christianity and its branches thereof are one of the largest and most influential religions in human history. Why should they be worried about an influx of people who dislike what they promote? I know I loathe cigarettes. The tobacco industry doesn't seem to care too much about that.

Furthermore, if they're so afraid of so many bashing them, then what is it with a fairly decent, if not large portion of them bashing others?

'Homosexuals, contraceptives, Muslims (etc) are the DEVIL!'

Of course, many point this out as their personal belief and what is written in the edition of the Bible that they connect the most with. However, it is the personal belief of many, in today's age, to say such things about Christianity because, let's face it, all that widespread influence has gained attention that isn't all too pleasing to look at. For example, the Catholic molestation, the uber-right neo-nazism, heck, even Mormonism has blood on its hands, particularly in a recent article found here: http://www.slweekly.com/editorial/2004/feat_2004-12-16.cfm

But anyway, I digress from my point. Truth is, there will be people who agree with what Christianity stands for, and there will be people who will disagree to the point of being heavily against it. All one can really do is either deal with it or try to reach a compromise.

LOOK AT ME! Im 14 still living with my mother who is a HARDCORE christian and im ATHIEST do you know how hard that is to be athiest behind your mothers back to say in your mind that christmas is notheing but a day for presents not to worshop God? Do you know what it feels like to see your mother cry or punish you because she thinks that God, the most hipacritical thing in the world, is our SAVIOR. God is not a savior he is not one who is here to light the way he only dilueds and clouds the mind. If all of a sudden noone was christian would God smit the earth with his terribel plages? Would he hates us all because we would not have sex only in wedlock would he hate us for being good people but not staying on our knees and worshiping to a dictator that wants to control our lives? Buddists and muslims are just as faithful and just as good a people as christians so why should they go to hell whiel the murderous and spitfilled people who DO inhabit christianity go to hevean?

You wana know where I lost my christianity I was about 11 and on the way to school in the car I asked my mom, " So even if someone has killed someone else they can just love god and belive in him and take christ into there heart and they would go to heaven?" and my mom thought about it and finely replied "Yes son even them."

Bottle, the church is not a destructive organisation wholly. It actually does a lot of what can be thought of by anyone as good works - in the holocaust they actually hid Jews.
yes, the Church has done some good things in its time. the KKK engaged in massive community service projects during the Reconstruction, and helped many people in its time. i don't believe anything excuses the evils perpetrated by the Church, just as i don't believe anything excuses what the KKK does.


Are you still saying that God raped Mary? Because God does a lot of things people don't ask for.
um, so that makes it okay?

No, Yahsha was a true Israelite, descendant of King David. The Assyrian King placed other races in Israel including many false Jews. These Jews became the High Priest - I quoted 2nd Kings. Read that more for details. That is why the High Priest were trying to have Yahsha killed. He knew who they were, or more importantly who they were not. There were still true Israelites in Israel of the time, not many though, remember the Messiah had to be born in Bethlehem.

I have finally worked it out... at last, I understand where your error lies.

You do know that Israel isn't a place, right?

Sure - there have been places NAMED Israel, but Israel is, more importantly, two other things...

First: Israel is the Covenant between Jacob and God (not sure where you keep getting David from, you are kind of missing the point...)

Thus - ALL people derived from the Jacobian lineages are "Children of Israel"

Second: Israel is the Covenant between God and mankind.

Thus - ALL people who follow Jacobian teaching are "Children of Israel".

Your conception is flawed because it hinges on a geography, and a misunderstanding.

You want to get persecuted less, here's how:

Go to as many of your local Churches as you can and ask for a bit of time during the sermons, saying that you have an important message for everyone. When you get up, tell them the following:
"All of us here have felt the increasing anti-Christian sentiment spreading all across America." Pause for effect and let people think about it. "Well take a stand to stop and shut up about your beliefs, keep it in your home and in your Church. Why, because everyone in America who isn't Christian is tired of evangelical shit heads screaming their propaganda. Thus every move you make is thought of as an attempt to convert people. If we all shut up, a great deal fewer people would hate us. So ground your kids for preaching, shun your neighbour who goes around giving out fliers and make America a happier place for all of us."
Then you can start an organisation known as, "Christians Supporting Silence" and urge Christians across the nation to join. Tada, you've now made people much less prejudiced against Christianity.

You wana know where I lost my christianity I was about 11 and on the way to school in the car I asked my mom, " So even if someone has killed someone else they can just love god and belive in him and take christ into there heart and they would go to heaven?" and my mom thought about it and finely replied "Yes son even them."

What's wrong with that? Can't people be forgiven for their crimes, even cold-blooded murder? Supposedly if someone has really taken christ into their heart than they aren't going to be killing anybody else.

take some NO-DOS and chill out. it will all be over soon.

Y'all do know that No-Doz is kind of antithetical to chilling out, right?

You do realize that if this did happen, you can sue under federal law for the violation of your rights as a christian? US federal law prohibits discrimination and harrassment in the workplace on the basis of religion. I advise filing a formal complaint with your employer and if they don't do anything, see an attorney.


Yea he should do that. After reading his other comments I really doubt he would have a chance in hell. He probably says nasty things about people and their morality all the time. He is hardly the innocent widdle lamykins that is being pick on by the Christian hating whatevers.

I get the feeling his story is a tad one sided and leaves out a great amount of detail.

[QUOTE=Stormforge]Yes, "elohim" is the plural of the word "eloheinu" (God), but it's plural as a sign of respect. [QUOTE]

I just read the other day that the royal "we" originated with Augustus. I wish I had the citation for you.

yes, the Church has done some good things in its time. the KKK engaged in massive community service projects during the Reconstruction, and helped many people in its time. i don't believe anything excuses the evils perpetrated by the Church, just as i don't believe anything excuses what the KKK does.

If you are old enough to remember the PTL Club:

Q: Do you know why Jim Bakker spells his name with two k's?

A: Three would be too obvious

All of the "Anti Christian" talk in America sounds like the start of an offensive to take rights away from non Christians. To the fundamentalists (like President Bush) everything is anti Christian especialy other Christian denominations.

What's wrong with that? Can't people be forgiven for their crimes, even cold-blooded murder? Supposedly if someone has really taken christ into their heart than they aren't going to be killing anybody else.

what's wrong with that is the gross injustice of it. a serial killer who tortured, raped, and killed dozens of people can get into heaven if he decides he likes Jesus at the last second, but an agnostic who lives their whole life in service to others and who acts perfectly in all other respects will be sent to burn in hell for failing to accept Jesus on blind faith.

I have lived on both sides of the fence. I was born into and raised by a devout southern baptist family. I always told people what I thought(and still do) and it got me into a lot of trouble as a christian. I lived some, and started talking to other christians, and other non-christians. then I started looking at the path I was leading, and the path those in my church were leading, I couldn't make a connection. I could not be in the presence of people who didn't have the commitmewnt that I did. SO, I became a pagan, it's is a lot more fun being pagan, because you can dance, drink, fornicate, and everyone is on the same page pretty much. As a christian I was never really happy because I was always unworthy, now I am worthy and happy. When it comes to being ridiculed for your beliefs, my advice is simply grin and ignore it, because what you believe and how you feel about yourself and your spitiuality is all your own. Your personal relationship with your god, on your level. No one elses opinions matter.

Yes, Anti Christianism IS on the rise. Thanks to our idiot ever more secular western governments. Not that I dislike secular governments, quite the contrary, I am in favour of them, however they seem to have had some sort of bias against Christianity in the past 30 years or so which means that they are not in reality secular, because they are messing with Christian affairs!

And the hordes of liberals on these forums continue to piss me off with their continuous insults and false accusations of Christianity. Have you no respect? You call yourselves 'fair' and 'unbiased'. But that sort of terminology doesn’t seem to extend to Christianity for you does it?

You bunch of Nazi losers.

You bunch of nazi losers? um, I have issue with htis, first of all, nazi's and neo-nazi's are christian, protestant to be exact, therefore any non-christian could not be a nazi.
Secondly, by making that statement you make it hard for anyone to treat you fairly. Attempying to hurt others before they can hurt you is very sophomoric. Not condusive at all to having intellegent conversation. I'm not trying to insult you, but if you want to know how someone else believes, open your eyes, and your ears, and drop the attitude. Fairness might find you after all.

Yes, Anti Christianism IS on the rise. Thanks to our idiot ever more secular western governments. Not that I dislike secular governments, quite the contrary, I am in favour of them, however they seem to have had some sort of bias against Christianity in the past 30 years or so which means that they are not in reality secular, because they are messing with Christian affairs!

in America, the government must "mess with Christian affairs" if it is to be secular, because Christianity has inserted itself into the government and must be excised for the government to be secular again. for instance, "Under God" was added to our Pledge by Christians in the 50s, and obviously a secular government would not have a Pledge with such wording.

And the hordes of liberals on these forums continue to piss me off with their continuous insults and false accusations of Christianity. Have you no respect? You call yourselves 'fair' and 'unbiased'. But that sort of terminology doesn’t seem to extend to Christianity for you does it?

actually, "fair and balanced" is the slogan of the right wing :).

at any rate, we also oppose racists, yet nobody seems to yell at us for being biased when we do that...odd, isn't it? i don't claim to be unbiased, at any rate, i only claim to be just. i am strongly biased in favor of justice.


You bunch of Nazi losers.
ooooh, school-yard name calling! well done, you sure stuck it to them liberals, by golly!

what's wrong with that is the gross injustice of it. a serial killer who tortured, raped, and killed dozens of people can get into heaven if he decides he likes Jesus at the last second, but an agnostic who lives their whole life in service to others and who acts perfectly in all other respects will be sent to burn in hell for failing to accept Jesus on blind faith.

I felt what he said was very true.

I will now try to offer a balanced view:

Anti-Christianity is not on the "rise". It has always been around.

A lot of my friends are staunch Christians. The reason why I don't hate them is that they do not flame Buddhists, Jews or Hindus. While they do occasionally say that they would like for other religions to convert to Christianity, they do not impose this on them. Simply put, they respect the choice of others.

Christianity in the Middle Ages was a horror unparalleled even today, with burnings and hangings by the thousands. Some people still find it hard to shake off this image. And frankly speaking, Christianity has not done much to improve its image. We read in the papers about paedophile bishops. George W. Bush quotes Christianity as the reason for his war. As a non-American with many American friends, I can safely tell you that out of all the non-Americans in the world, more than three-quarters were against this war (this is an OFFICIAL statistic, verified by many major AMERICAN news reports - do not seek to blatantly lie by disputing this). Now, you try and tell us that the war was because of Christianity. This doesn't do much to help Christianity's image at all. How different is this from radical islam's jihad (holy war)?

Austrealite incurred the wrath of so many people because he stated that Christianity was "the one true faith". This is imposing and is morally perverse. Apart from its obvious arrogance, it shows an appalling lack of respect for other religions. Jesus advocated love and forgiveness, even for the 'sinners'. If you profess that all non-Christians are 'sinners' (as wrong as that statement may be), shouldn't you show love and forgiveness for us, instead of waging holy war?

Once, in my friend's church, a young man went to the pastor and told him that a bully had been tormenting him for months and he wanted to strike back. The pastor advised him to ignore the bully. "Jesus said when someone slaps you on one cheek, offer the other one to him." The young man replied, "But God smite the Egyptians when they ignored Moses' preachings!" The pastor replied, "That may be, but you aren't God." That's right. By trying to accuse all of us non-Christians as being sinners and blasphemers, you are in effect claiming to be the ultimate judge of human character: God himself. Have you 'sinned' yourself? If so, do you have the right as a fellow 'sinner' to label us as 'sinners'?

The world does not have a problem with Christians in particular. But if you are adamant on claiming Christians get the stick more so than other religions, I have a few explanations.

1. I do not see Jews, Buddhists, Muslims or Hindus knocking on my doorstep, asking me to convert.

2. No president so far has used Buddhism or Hinduism to claim holy war

3. I have till now NEVER heard a Jew, Buddhist, Muslim or Hindu tell me, "Because you are not a Jew/Buddhist/Muslim/Hindu, you will die in hell and suffer eternal damnation! Mwa ha ha!"

But I would like to believe that not all Christians are that arrogant and elitist... it's just the presence of a few bad eggs. It's just like Islam. It's only a few hundred extremists who ruin the entire basket of peace-loving Islam eggs and turn them into rotten militants.

If everyone could just accept the fact that everyone has a RIGHT to choose his or her religion (To each according to his belief), the world would be a better place. Truly.

How about this. If you're a Christian, serve God as you know you should (as for the persecution at work thing that started this post, scripture actually says blessed are those who are persecuted in My name, so chances are you're doing something right bud), if you don't have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, I honestly hope you come to have one some day, but for the time being, keep an open mind. A good number of people (and I'm not trying to point fingers, but particularly liberals) want us to have open minds about things like gay rights and abortion and a thousand other things that our Faith declares abominations, but if you're gonna have such an open mind, why not be all inclusive and have an open mind about spirituality as well. And actually some of my brothers and sisters have problems with that term also, but as a Christian spiritualist, I find it's something I've come to need in recent days. We struggle not against the flesh brothers. Think of persecution from men as a proxy.

You bunch of nazi losers? um, I have issue with htis, first of all, nazi's and neo-nazi's are christian, protestant to be exact, therefore any non-christian could not be a nazi.
Secondly, by making that statement you make it hard for anyone to treat you fairly. Attempying to hurt others before they can hurt you is very sophomoric. Not condusive at all to having intellegent conversation. I'm not trying to insult you, but if you want to know how someone else believes, open your eyes, and your ears, and drop the attitude. Fairness might find you after all.

Nazi's are Christian ay? Does that explain the thousands of Christians that were mass murdered in Nazi concentration camps across Europe then, many trying to SAVE the lives of others? I think everyone’s favourite fascist dictator puts it best 'Fascism is a religion'. And he was right. You do know that Adolf Hitler created his own religion, with his own Church and Bible etc... FFS man - why do you think so many German Christians died opposing him? Hitler did not want people to worship anyone but himself, because he knew that would be the only way people would truly follow him. You might want to note also that many early Nazis were Jews - which shows that everyone had the potential to be a Nazi.

Attempting to hurt others before they can hurt you is very sophomoric.
ATTEMPTING TO HURT OTHERS BEFORE??? I have just read some 41 pages of this thread of INSULT after INSULT against Christianity and you are telling me that I am ‘attempting to hurt others before'. I am responding to this bunch of anti-Christian morons who are creating lies and who think insulting Christianity is alright. How dare you call me immature? And don't you accuse me of having an attitude, SEEING AS I AM NOT THE ONE CONTINUOUSLY INSULTING A RELIGION. I am defending my religion from these anti-Christian idiots who pick on Christianity because they know that it is the only one where they will be able to get away with it.

in America, the government must "mess with Christian affairs" if it is to be secular, because Christianity has inserted itself into the government and must be excised for the government to be secular again. for instance, "Under God" was added to our Pledge by Christians in the 50s, and obviously a secular government would not have a Pledge with such wording.

actually, "fair and balanced" is the slogan of the right wing :).

at any rate, we also oppose racists, yet nobody seems to yell at us for being biased when we do that...odd, isn't it? i don't claim to be unbiased, at any rate, i only claim to be just. i am strongly biased in favor of justice.


ooooh, school-yard name calling! well done, you sure stuck it to them liberals, by golly!
To be "Fair and balanced" that slogan is a FOX slogan ... they happen to be right but that is their slogan (in fact probably get sued if you used it as a speach slogan)

in America, the government must "mess with Christian affairs" if it is to be secular, because Christianity has inserted itself into the government and must be excised for the government to be secular again. for instance, "Under God" was added to our Pledge by Christians in the 50s, and obviously a secular government would not have a Pledge with such wording.

Yeah well, I do not really care about America, I am British.

actually, "fair and balanced" is the slogan of the right wing :).

Indeed - funny how lately I can not differentiate between liberals and the left wing?

at any rate, we also oppose racists, yet nobody seems to yell at us for being biased when we do that...odd, isn't it? i don't claim to be unbiased, at any rate, i only claim to be just. i am strongly biased in favor of justice.

Don't assume you know someone before you start trying imitate their views. And by being biased you know bloody well right that I am talking about treating any particular innocent group differently…


ooooh, school-yard name calling! well done, you sure stuck it to them liberals, by golly!

Liberals and the left wing do it all the time. Why shouldn't I? It's all in the fun!

Nazi's are Christian ay? Does that explain the thousands of Christians that were mass murdered in Nazi concentration camps across Europe then, many trying to SAVE the lives of others? I think everyone’s favourite fascist dictator puts it best 'Fascism is a religion'. And he was right. You do know that Adolf Hitler created his own religion, with his own Church and Bible etc... FFS man - why do you think so many German Christians died opposing him? Hitler did not want people to worship anyone but himself, because he knew that would be the only way people would truly follow him. You might want to note also that many early Nazis were Jews - which shows that everyone had the potential to be a Nazi.


ATTEMPTING TO HURT OTHERS BEFORE??? I have just read some 41 pages of this thread of INSULT after INSULT against Christianity and you are telling me that I am ‘attempting to hurt others before'. I am responding to this bunch of anti-Christian morons who are creating lies and who think insulting Christianity is alright. How dare you call me immature? And don't you accuse me of having an attitude, SEEING AS I AM NOT THE ONE CONTINUOUSLY INSULTING A RELIGION. I am defending my religion from these anti-Christian idiots who pick on Christianity because they know that it is the only one where they will be able to get away with it.


Also to be fair we pick on it more because 1) we are more familiar with christianity ... it has effected our lives ... and 9 out of 10 of us were christian at some point in time
2) because we have deal with it more our frustration with idocy is up ... sorry but that is what happens.

Sorry you are on one side but dont for a second think you have not steriotyped us all also ... something about overlooking a plank in your eye ;)

Also to be fair we pick on it more because 1) we are more familiar with christianity ... it has effected our lives ... and 9 out of 10 of us were christian at some point in time
2) because we have deal with it more our frustration with idocy is up ... sorry but that is what happens.

Well that’s a crappy excuse isn't it?

Sorry you are on one side but dont for a second think you have not steriotyped us all also ... something about overlooking a plank in your eye ;)

I'm sorry, do I know you? You’re the one who is making me seem a stereotype. Don't assume you know peoples views on certain subjects before you actually do, ok?

Well that’s a crappy excuse isn't it?



I'm sorry, do I know you? You’re the one who is making me seem a stereotype. Don't assume you know peoples views on certain subjects before you actually do, ok?
No I was talking about you particularly

I have been one of the advocates you speak of


So let me cut and paste … so it is easy for you


I am defending my religion from these anti-Christian idiots who pick on Christianity because they know that it is the only one where they will be able to get away with it.


Incorrect some do that … some have logical arguments for and against it (most of us more so against its influence then the religion itself)


And the hordes of liberals on these forums continue to piss me off with their continuous insults and false accusations of Christianity. Have you no respect? You call yourselves 'fair' and 'unbiased'. But that sort of terminology doesn’t seem to extend to Christianity for you does it?
I never said that … and I am “liberal” way to … um lets see stereotype


You bunch of Nazi losers.

While childish still stereotyping


…. See was talking about you in particular not your “group” whatever that may be

No I was talking about you particularly

So let me cut and paste … so it is easy for you

Excellent

Incorrect some do that … some have logical arguments for and against it (most of us more so against its influence then the religion itself) I was not really talking about you, but I mean honestly, can you be 100% sure that it is not the majority of people?

I never said that … and I am “liberal” way to … um lets see stereotype

Again, you seem to think I am talking about you when I am not. Look, the majority of anti-Christians are liberals... so I do not see what the problem is?

While childish still stereotyping

I know - Fun isn't it?


See was talking about you in particular not your “group” whatever that may be

huh? What do you mean by this?

Excellent

I was not really talking about you, but I mean honestly, can you be 100% sure that it is not the majority of people?



Again, you seem to think I am talking about you when I am not. Look, the majority of anti-Christians are liberals... so I do not see what the problem is?



I know - Fun isn't it?




huh? What do you mean by this?

Even if it is the majority … still stereotyping

You may not have meant me but there are a lot out there LIKE me.

(btw not anti Christian so much as anti idiocy (Not saying Christians are idiots but I come poke my nose in , at any logical flaw in any argument)… I got my own faults but I try)

What I meant was that I was not stereotyping you in a group rather thinking about you as an individual.


Stereotyping is all too easy for all of us … makes life simple … we all have to work to overcome it


Anyways :fluffle: :D

I didn't add Hams sons, because they were not relevent to the topic at hand.

Curious.

You didn't add Ham's sons, because they are not relevent to the topic at hand... but you did specifically state that Ham had no sons, as being relevent to the topic.

So... truth is irrelevent, and only 'stuff' you make-up is worth mentioning?

Gotcha. :)

Curious.

You didn't add Ham's sons, because they are not relevent to the topic at hand... but you did specifically state that Ham had no sons, as being relevent to the topic.

So... truth is irrelevent, and only 'stuff' you make-up is worth mentioning?

Gotcha. :)
I knoticed that too

Not just not mentioning them

Specificaly SAYING he had no son's then when corrected states that he did not mention them

:p

Again, you seem to think I am talking about you when I am not. Look, the majority of anti-Christians are liberals... so I do not see what the problem is?



Three little words for you.

PROVE IT.

Two words, surely?

Three little words for you.

PROVE IT.

I knoticed that too

Not just not mentioning them

Specificaly SAYING he had no son's then when corrected states that he did not mention them

:p

Hey, why should he let 'logic' or 'facts' get in the way of a perfectly servicable prejudice?

:)

Three little words for you.

PROVE IT.
I know it is a joke :p but does the period count as a word :p

Hey, why should he let 'logic' or 'facts' get in the way of a perfectly servicable prejudice?

:)
:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

Two words, surely?

Oooh, the crushing grip of reason....

(There is a subtle suggestion that the third word was unvoiced... or perhaps I forgot to put in a third word... or perhaps I typed 'three' when I meant 'two'.

Or perhaps it's just my idea of slightly comical.

:)

I know it is a joke :p but does the period count as a word :p

It does now that you have written it.... maybe?

It does now that you have written it.... maybe?
I prefer changing . to bitch

So it would be more like

"Prove it bitch"

I prefer changing . to bitch

So it would be more like

"Prove it bitch"

:D

Yeah, but PROVE IT. isn't a flame...

(but does carry the very subtle SUGGESTION of a flame, if delivered in the correct way...)

BWaaahhaaaaa haaaa.

Erm... sorry... moment of evil genius maniacal laughter.... *blush* :)

:D

Yeah, but PROVE IT. isn't a flame...

(but does carry the very subtle SUGGESTION of a flame, if delivered in the correct way...)

BWaaahhaaaaa haaaa.

Erm... sorry... moment of evil genius maniacal laughter.... *blush* :)
I know ;) thats why I said it ... I was just correcting not flaming myself :p

I know ;) thats why I said it ... I was just correcting not flaming myself :p

You have an evil, devious, sick and twisted mind, sir.

Oh, I LIKE you.... :)

You have an evil, devious, sick and twisted mind, sir.

Oh, I LIKE you.... :)
Oh Grave baby :fluffle::fluffle::fluffle:

Oh Grave baby :fluffle::fluffle::fluffle:

Score!

:D

*peeks head inside thread*

so what are we talking about now? I assume its been hijiacked by now... ;)

*peeks head inside thread*

so what are we talking about now? I assume its been hijiacked by now... ;)
Just :fluffle: grave ... you want some too?

Just :fluffle: grave ... you want some too?


LOL....2 things i cant turn down.....chocolate chips cookies and :fluffle: 's

*peeks head inside thread*

so what are we talking about now? I assume its been hijiacked by now... ;)

:D

In terms of hijacking... you really couldn't have arrived at a better moment..!

LOL....2 things i cant turn down.....chocolate chips cookies and :fluffle: 's
I got cookies here somewhere ;)

Enjoy..................

http://www.bushislord.com/

Alas we are the majority but that is only because we hold to the one true faith. We do not faulter nor will we fail God. And don't be childish to come here and tell me to "STFU" if you didn't want to hear what I had to say, you shouldn't have opened the thread. The point I am making is that it is now "alright" to abuse Christians but if you did it to any other faith it wouldn't be acceptable. And the fact we are the majority just means we are under attack by more people who cannot listen to God and would love nothing better than to bring his children crashing down.

im probably wrong, but it sounds like you are under the impression that everyone who is not christan is diametrically opposed to christianity, which is not true. for example, im Wiccan, but my very best friend is a Baptist. there are some jerks out there who will mock you for what you believe; thats just the world. every religion gets some kind of abuse, thats just the way people are. stupid ol' world, ain't it?

I got cookies here somewhere ;)

(I might have, if fluffles are on the line...)

:)

:D

In terms of hijacking... you really couldn't have arrived at a better moment..!


*points paintball gun at members*

ok NOBODY MOVE.......I'M HIJACKING THIS THREAD. Take your hands off the keyboard and put all wallets and purses in this bag *passes bag around*


Jk Mods.....dont throw me out-i was just here with some comic relief. ;)

I love living in Britain.
you said it.

ATTEMPTING TO HURT OTHERS BEFORE??? I have just read some 41 pages of this thread of INSULT after INSULT against Christianity and you are telling me that I am ‘attempting to hurt others before'. I am responding to this bunch of anti-Christian morons who are creating lies and who think insulting Christianity is alright. How dare you call me immature? And don't you accuse me of having an attitude, SEEING AS I AM NOT THE ONE CONTINUOUSLY INSULTING A RELIGION. I am defending my religion from these anti-Christian idiots who pick on Christianity because they know that it is the only one where they will be able to get away with it.

I think that Christians have been hurting others longer than we have been hurting them.

I am strongly anti-christian (as long as by christian you mean the modern groups of hypocrites and bigots who would force their beleifs on others.) and I am proud to say I have no tolerance for a religion that has become the cover for bigotry. Until the true followers of the religion remind the bigots that it is not their place to go on the attack and force their beleifs down the throats of non-beleivers, I will continue to attack the disgusting slime pit that is christianity.

So... I am an idiot who attacks christianity just 'cause I can.... Sure...

*points paintball gun at members*

ok NOBODY MOVE.......I'M HIJACKING THIS THREAD. Take your hands off the keyboard and put all wallets and purses in this bag *passes bag around*


Jk Mods.....dont throw me out-i was just here with some comic relief. ;)
*me hids in bag* which is a rather silly thing for a 6'4" guy to do but is the smart choice none the less

Alas we are the majority but that is only because we hold to the one true faith. We do not faulter nor will we fail God.

Perhaps if you were not insulting every other religion in existence while demanding that they accept and respect you for your beliefs you wouldn't have people making such comments to you. Dunno, just a thought.

Rubbish, while Judaism might recieve some doses of attacks, nothing on the level of Christianity (faith here, not races), I have seen and heard of people of all faiths, races etc praising themselves that they desecrate Churches, Smash down tombs of Christians...because of their faith...

*coughcoughHOLOCAUSTcough*

So... I am an idiot who attacks christianity just 'cause I can.... Sure...


well at least your honest

Perhaps if you were not insulting every other religion in existence while demanding that they accept and respect you for your beliefs you wouldn't have people making such comments to you. Dunno, just a thought.

yay! someone else gets it too!!

Score!

:D


leave him alone! i want him! i like him!
:fluffle: :sniper:

*points paintball gun at members*

ok NOBODY MOVE.......I'M HIJACKING THIS THREAD. Take your hands off the keyboard and put all wallets and purses in this bag *passes bag around*


Jk Mods.....dont throw me out-i was just here with some comic relief. ;)

All of a sudden, my life seems to have taken a very 'Pulp Fiction' turn...

All of a sudden, my life seems to have taken a very 'Pulp Fiction' turn...
I have been meaning to rent that movie along with reservoir dogs but it is sold out every time I go to pick it up

*me hids in bag* which is a rather silly thing for a 6'4" guy to do but is the smart choice none the less

How curious.... you've got an inch taller in a week?

leave him alone! i want him! i like him!
:fluffle: :sniper:

Hey! We're just good friends! It meant nothing!

:D

How curious.... you've got an inch taller in a week?
The amazing power of typo ... you should try it once!

I have been meaning to rent that movie along with reservoir dogs but it is sold out every time I go to pick it up

"Pulp Fiction" is good... "Reservoir Dogs" is better, the "Kill Bill" movies are best.

And, if you like that kind of thing... "Boondock Saints" is worth watching, too.

:D

You bring the pizza, we'll do a movie night.

:)

Hey! We're just good friends! It meant nothing!

:D
Sure it dident you fluffle slut

"Pulp Fiction" is good... "Reservoir Dogs" is better, the "Kill Bill" movies are best.

And, if you like that kind of thing... "Boondock Saints" is worth watching, too.

:D

You bring the pizza, we'll do a movie night.

:)
Saw boondock and the bills ;) would not mind re watching them with ya

The amazing power of typo ... you should try it once!

:D

It was either the "got an inch taller" reference, or the "Only-After-10-PM" comment about making a guy grow an inch...

I opted for the phrasing I used to protect the eyes of those under 18, and lovely ladies (like our Peech).

:)

Sure it dident you fluffle slut

No wait... this isn't how it looks... you see, Sheograd just walked in and....


*Fades out to the closing credits of "Santa Cruz"....*

I wish this had stopped at #666...that would have been beautifully ironic.

666 There!

LOOK AT ME! Im 14 still living with my mother who is a HARDCORE christian and im ATHIEST do you know how hard that is to be athiest behind your mothers back to say in your mind that christmas is notheing but a day for presents not to worshop God? Do you know what it feels like to see your mother cry or punish you because she thinks that God, the most hipacritical thing in the world, is our SAVIOR.

From one unbeliever to another, hold on to reason. You've already started to think and live for yourself; don't stop just because your mother loves her imaginary demon more than she loves her living son. Oh, and if you can manage it, read some Aristotle. Without Christian demon-worship to supply you with ready-made moral answers, you're going to have to figure out on your own what's right and what's wrong.

From one unbeliever to another, hold on to reason. You've already started to think and live for yourself; don't stop just because your mother loves her imaginary demon more than she loves her living son. Oh, and if you can manage it, read some Aristotle. Without Christian demon-worship to supply you with ready-made moral answers, you're going to have to figure out on your own what's right and what's wrong.


Aristotle is indeed quite lovely. Might I suggest reading over Machiavelli's The Prince as well

:D

It was either the "got an inch taller" reference, or the "Only-After-10-PM" comment about making a guy grow an inch...

I opted for the phrasing I used to protect the eyes of those under 18, and lovely ladies (like our Peech).

:)
Some how I feel like she could talk like a sailor if she wanted :p

:fluffle:

Some how I feel like she could talk like a sailor if she wanted :p

:fluffle:

Surely not... she seems far to sweet and demure for such behaviour.

Although, it might be fun to watch, if she did...

:D

lol @ both of you....


I've been known to verbally spank deserving individuals from time to time. I try to limit my sailorisms though. ;)

lol @ both of you....


I've been known to verbally spank deserving individuals from time to time. I try to limit my sailorisms though. ;)
;) hehehe :fluffle:

The teachings of Christ himself are quite admirable and are much different in intent and meaning from the rest of the Bible. Christ was the liberal of his time and place and he raged against the self-righteous religious/ political establishment in the name of commonwealth, brotherhood, and love. Most of the various "Christian" religions and sects over the ages are hijackers of Jesus name. The vast majority have polluted the world and the minds of men with the very authoritarian legalism and selfishness that Jesus hated. It would be interesting to note that these people in their additions to Jesus' teachings have predicted a struggle between Chirstians and non-Christians culminating in Revelation. I would argue that the majority who call themselves Christians ARE very confused. THEY are the enemies of Christ!!! THEY are the "AntiChrist".Christ hated religion and exalted love. This is the real division of the left and the right in the world. Those who believe in love and those who love self above all else. "CHRISTIANITY" MUST FALL!!....and the true teachings of Christ and other great men along those same lines must form the core of a new society of love and freedom that is devoid of personal judgement and condemnation that covers all the earth. (I was raised under Christianity, but I do not claim the religion...only the positive aspects of love and sharing......as such, I am a reform-minded advocate of a world-wide social democracy with law based on commonly shared deeply felt values of love, moderation, rational and scientific objectivity, and personal freedom.

lol @ both of you....


I've been known to verbally spank deserving individuals from time to time. I try to limit my sailorisms though. ;)

Oooh, wouldn't that be terrible?

Being (verbally) spanked by Peech?

Gosh.

Oooh, wouldn't that be terrible?

Being (verbally) spanked by Peech?

Gosh.
I thought you were the one that did the spanking ... uhh oh I mean slapping

I thought you were the one that did the spanking ... uhh oh I mean slapping

erm... ahem... what? sorry? what did you say...? couldn't hear you...

ahem...

erm... ahem... what? sorry? what did you say...? couldn't hear you...

ahem...
fine I will get the missletoe and you will find out

fine I will get the missletoe and you will find out

oh-oh... misteltoe related 'badness' spotted on the horizon.... I think I saw some misteltoe over... THERE... somewhere... I'll just go look...

:D

oh-oh... misteltoe related 'badness' spotted on the horizon.... I think I saw some misteltoe over... THERE... somewhere... I'll just go look...

:D
*me runs giggling after the missletoe ... and discovers it is jsut a tumbleweed ... continues giggling*

*me runs giggling after the missletoe ... and discovers it is jsut a tumbleweed ... continues giggling*

(What I don't get is: he falls for that one EVERY time...) :)

(What I don't get is: he falls for that one EVERY time...) :)
*looks up*
Huh falls for what every time?
*starts giggling again*

Not all Christian people fit the mold you are presenting

Not all Christian people fit the mold you are presenting
Who is presenting ? origional poster or ... someone in the mass of pages that followed