NationStates Jolt Archive

Congratulations Austrealite, you came up clean! No snide homosexual remarks, which surprises me because i'm sure I saw some yesterday. *shrugs*

Congratulations Austrealite, you came up clean! No snide homosexual remarks, which surprises me because i'm sure I saw some yesterday. *shrugs*

...was I on yesterday? I don't know but I assure you I didn't make any comments.

...was I on yesterday? I don't know but I assure you I didn't make any comments.
I meant when I checked previous posts yesterday!

Originally Posted by Local CHRISTIAN lands
I don't like Buhda and I don't like Muhamed.


Muhaned said in the Koran to kill the infidels.


Buhda has kept millions of people from worshipping GOD and sent them to hell.



I would LOVE for the world to be run by the Pope.

I would love for everyone to be a devout catholic.

Then everyone would go to Heaven or at least purgatory.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

What the hell, your a joke right? LIke a walking talking joke. *looks around* Someone tell me this guys a troll or something. Budha rocks and the Koran is basically the same as the bible with diferent names.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not a joke this is a VERY CHRISTIAN belief.
GOD said to worship HIM.If you don't you go to HELL.Plain and simple.If you do not believe this you are not following GOD's word.What you just said is antiCHRISTIAN.

I meant when I checked previous posts yesterday!

Oh ok

Originally Posted by Local CHRISTIAN lands
I don't like Buhda and I don't like Muhamed.


Muhaned said in the Koran to kill the infidels.


Buhda has kept millions of people from worshipping GOD and sent them to hell.



I would LOVE for the world to be run by the Pope.

I would love for everyone to be a devout catholic.

Then everyone would go to Heaven or at least purgatory.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

What the hell, your a joke right? LIke a walking talking joke. *looks around* Someone tell me this guys a troll or something. Budha rocks and the Koran is basically the same as the bible with diferent names.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not a joke this is a VERY CHRISTIAN belief.
GOD said to worship HIM.If you don't you go to HELL.Plain and simple.If you do not believe this you are not following GOD's word.What you just said is antiCHRISTIAN.

Okies I think someones been on the drinky drinks. Especially with our lack of knowing how to press quote. Ha gnight.

This is antiCHRISTIAN.

People on the left coast are very liberal and anti CHRISTIAN.

In the San Francisco area children are being taught to pray to Mecca and indulge in other religions as religios awareness.

It may be offtopic but it needed to be said.

I am GLAD that I go to a pentacostal school!

I am GLAD that I go to a pentacostal school!
As is everybody who doesn't.

See.Anti CHRISTIANISIM.You suddenly make a joke because you don't like pentacostals.

The archaic language makes you look like a freaking moron. Just FYI.
No, but your feeling the need to comment on it makes YOU look like one. I seriously doubt you would make a similar comment if someone quoted the Illiad or something from Plato. Your bigotry is showing.

I have no feelings about pentacostals. I don't even know what they stand for or how they're different from any other religion. I have feelings about you.

Can you realy be surprised there are so many anti christians? You turn on the TV there are christians trying to get something many people enjoy banned because 'their' god dislikes it, you answerer the front door there are christians trying to convert you often becoming insultive when they fail, you walk outside and there are christians telling us where all going to hell, you go to college and the church across the road has vandalised the campus with posters about the one true god!

And there is nothing we can do about it!

All you christians on here bitching about being censored! SHUT, THE FUCK, UP! Because there is 'no' such thing about a christian being censored! Don't worry your message is out, we can't live a single day without it being shoved in our faces! And you lot are bitching about the anti christianism that has appeared when your interfering with every single persons lives. against their will, till the day they die when their forced to have a christian funeral even though they where aithiest!

I have to ask why isn't there one country under science? We have one country under god for almost every god in existence but no country under no gods, because I want to live there. Currently there is not one place on the planet where you can escape religious discrimination, holy wars, attempted forceful conversion. I want to live somewhere where there are no church's, no preachers and no god damn Jenova's witnesses knocking on my fucking front door! Somewhere where I can live out my life peacefully without having some religious nut on the news killing someone for apparently sinning against the god of unuglatitaly for farting in the north direction where their god resides!

But sadly such a place is a fantasy, there is no where in the world you can go where there won't be religion. Yet you lot are bitching your voice isn't being heard and people are being allowed to live peaceful lives where they aren't forced to live in your black and white society.

If there is a hell, go there! and leave us in peace.

Why are you like this.Most Christians are not violent.And when we try to convert it is because GOD told us to.If we did not we would be sinning.If you do not see the light you will understand when you die.

Why are you like this.Most Christians are not violent.And when we try to convert it is because GOD told us to.If we did not we would be sinning.If you do not see the light you will understand when you die.
And that is one of the primary reasons people like him react so negatively toward people like you. Look, God doesn't need you to help Him do anything! If that were true, then He wouldn't be God, now would He? If you truly want to find a way to encourage people to become Christians, feed the poor, help the widows and orphans in their distress, and those who see your good works will turn and glorify your Father. This is the sort of "sacrifice" God desires.

Why are you like this.Most Christians are not violent.And when we try to convert it is because GOD told us to.If we did not we would be sinning.If you do not see the light you will understand when you die.

That's the exact attitude I'm talking about, the where right your wrong attitude. Look buddy I don't care about your black and white perspective of the world but I'm not interested, you go along with your little holier than thou attitude and I will use my common sense to make my life long decisions. But of course its never that simple is it, tolerance is bred out of you christians at birth so you go around trying to force your agenda onto others.

Frankly I don't care if I am wrong I'm going to continue to live out my life using my own common morals to justify how I should treat people and how I should act. In the highly unlikely circumstances you are right I believe your book says I will go to a type of limbo not hell for living a good life but not believing in your god which is a close second to heaven anyway. Its basically just earth only the inhabitants know of the existence of god but can never reach him and frankly that's fine with me.

Bear in mind I am uncertain about my beliefs, however to accept a god I also beleive the following has to be true.

Surely if there was god, and the world is full of religeons, seeded in such a way that only few people in a small area would get each one initially, he wouldn't have one true religeon.

Secondly religoens are more than a guide to heaven or whatever they are a guide to life, 9 of the ten commandments are pretty much conerstones of any civilised society. However the rest of the religeous books and their translations are somewhate wierd. By some coincidence they agree with the society of the day, but often with a little moderation. As if someone didnt want to change social order but wanted to soften the blows. Now bear in mind how the bible has been translated and passed on in various forms throughout the ages.

Same with any other religeon. There cannot be one true religeon how would oit be fair that people in a region that never sees other people could go staright to hell?

No it's simple, you treat others with respect and you regret the bad things you did in life and you are a good person so you go to heaven. I don't think god would want a load of scared people or ass kissers. I honestly don't think your religeon determines your destination, but instead how you act on it and treat other people.

Religeon is surely just a guide?

Now organised religeon is bad, because the institution can bend the trachings to it's own will. Like the anti gay line, it doesnt even have to mean that gay people are evil. It's probably just that people who are gay and go against their nature or arent and play gay, are perverts, which is wrong. However as god makes gay animals, homosexuality is natural to many people.

But thats not what many religeons would say, or rather many scared institutions battling for status quo.

If you are Christian and follow your beleifs, despite all criticism, all respect to you, people that mock you are morons. But otherwise, dont sink to their level, and bear in mind a lot of your religeous book was designed as a guide to life for a time long ago. That time has passed and while there is a constantly relevant part (like the commandments) it's not word for word accurate. God wouldn't apply the same rules to different circumstances. He's all knowing.

Not all of us act holier than though.When you say leave we leave.But then we pray for your soul.I was answering your post.I no way was I acting in the way you claimed me to be.

One commandment is not to worship any other GOD.
Since you question your faith I beg of you to pray to GOD to guide you everyday.For answers please go here

http://www.ewtn.com


We don't hate gays but they are sinning.And GOD tells us to worship HIM and only HIM in both tetsaments.

In the first testament through the prophets and the new testament through GOD made flesh on earth.

I love to read in places such as this. Anyway, Jesus told all of us that we would be persecuted for believing in Him. Therefore, understand that. Have faith that the suffering you undergo (even if you are crucified by being hanged upside down on a cross, as some Christians were long ago) is part of keeping the faith.

The best thing for us to do is to live as Jesus wants us to live. Then, those people can see reasons to choose Jesus as their Savior. It is a choice. We have free will.

If some ridicule at work is too tough to remain a Christian, then Satan has won that round. Stand up for the faith. Don't fear the naysayers.

And it hasn't just been like it at work but every where I have been I have seen it. Has it risen in your area lately?

As an non-believer in the USA, I have absolutely no sympathy for you. I used to be a Christian before I grew up, started asking questions, and turned my back on faith in order to embrace reason. I think Christianity is disgusting. I've read the Bible, and I think that the Judeo-Christian god is a murderous tyrant and that Jesus himself is a product of rape. That's right -- your God is a rapist. He didn't ask Mary to bear his child, did he? No, he just knocked her up. Oh, and she was already married, which makes your God an adulterer. You know what pisses me off about Christianity more than anything else? The idea that I should ask some god to forgive me for being human. As far as I'm concerned, you never outgrew the invisible friend from your childhood; you only deified him.

Your concern is appreciated, but I am making my own decisions myself, through a mix of logic and emotion, as a divine bing would have divine logic as well as compassion.

Anyway the point is, that is the one commandment that doesnt sit wth other religeons, but even that has it's role.

The following paragraph would explain it from a christian perspective, so please any hindus reading do not take offence at my ignorance of your religeon.

If all religeons came from one god, even the hindus with their veritable smorgasboard of gods are worshipping the many faces of one god (in fact my RE is really shaky here but isnt that the case anyway?) (or perhaps we are whorshipping one side of theirs, but I cant be bothered to ramble about that yet) Judaism and Islam are following the same god too. So infact they are fine. But it leaves satanism and the like alone, which would be how god would intend it.

Just because it's a different label, doesnt mean it's a different guy.

Why are you like this.Most Christians are not violent.And when we try to convert it is because GOD told us to.If we did not we would be sinning.If you do not see the light you will understand when you die.

There's something I say to people like you, who insist on trying to "convert me" to your brand of DEMON WORSHIP. I tell them to Worry about your own salvation before presuming to concern yourself with mine.

You see, I don't want to be "saved". I don't want to be "forgiven" for being human. If I'm not good enough for your God, that's fine because your God isn't good enough for ME.

And if there is a God, which I have no reason to believe, I will kill him. And all his little angels, and his little son, and even the little demons he allows to terrorize humanity.

As an non-believer in the USA, I have absolutely no sympathy for you. I used to be a Christian before I grew up, started asking questions, and turned my back on faith in order to embrace reason. I think Christianity is disgusting. I've read the Bible, and I think that the Judeo-Christian god is a murderous tyrant and that Jesus himself is a product of rape. That's right -- your God is a rapist. He didn't ask Mary to bear his child, did he? No, he just knocked her up. Oh, and she was already married, which makes your God an adulterer. You know what pisses me off about Christianity more than anything else? The idea that I should ask some god to forgive me for being human. As far as I'm concerned, you never outgrew the invisible friend from your childhood; you only deified him.
Why so angry? When we allow others to make us angry, they control us almost as much as if we agree to be their slave. Your facts leave a great deal to be desired as well. Just one example ... Mary wasn't married when she became pregnant, she was betrothed.

What have I said that is threatening?Sirius Zero





To notquiteaplace.Fine.I would like to try and convince you into my way of thinking.If that is okay with you please tell me.There is much that you don't know about GOD that I would like to explain to you with GOD's help.

To get back to the original content of the thread is "Anti Christanism" on the rise. Well no, anti fundamentalism is on the rise because we are battling Muslim fundamentalist and Americans notice a lot of similarities in their Christian counterparts.

Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans, and Catholics have noted no increase in anti Christian behavior except the crap they usually receive from fundamentalist Christians who tend to regard themselves as the only true "Christians". :)

I agree. I live and respect others and regret the bad things I do.

I am glad to be alive, and if there is a god, he knows that, if he exists, Im thankful.

Surely just kissing his arse a load isnt going to help. If praying is the difference between heaven and hell rather than all the other stuff which the religeous books push heavily (while praying and worship is more church promoted... funny that) Then it's not heaven. How can it be a nice place without people?

It's about how you behave towards other people and the respect you give them, about regretting bad things and about forgiving them when they are inflicted on you. It's not whether I pray or celebrate certain days out of fear for going to hell, its that I do things because I think they will make the world a better place for others.

LCL: No thanks, I am still deciding myself, I will look that way when I want, and I doubt I will follow organised religeon anyway, I dont trust any big organisation as there are too many fallible people involved. God can be found under any rock, so if I choose a religeon I wish to do it on god's terms (i'd read the book), not my local bishop who makes a job of it.

In the mean time, Im fine, IU may not be certain on god or not, but the beleifs I have are ones I have spent the last few years of my life mulling over and have been carefully reached. I follow a lot of your beleifs and codes, I merely dont know if there is a god. As I think the bible was obviously written not just to get us to heaven but to make it easier here. But I dont think there is one true religeon, which is the point, as long as you get those baic pillars of respect and compassion, you cant go wrong.

Odd.Considering how Catholics and Fundamentalist believe many of same things.Such as infallibility of the BIBLE and that JESUS is GOD made flesh.I believe this as well.


To notquiteaplace.Fine.I would like to try and convince you into my way of thinking.If that is okay with you please tell me.There is much that you don't know about GOD that I would like to explain to you with GOD's help.I used to be just like you.But then GOD showed HIMSELF to me.Mabe GOD is trying to rescue you through me.Like HE did for me through EWTN and lessons in life.

I don't know if you read this.

Not all of us act holier than though.When you say leave we leave.But then we pray for your soul.I was answering your post.I no way was I acting in the way you claimed me to be.

One commandment is not to worship any other GOD.
Since you question your faith I beg of you to pray to GOD to guide you everyday.For answers please go here

http://www.ewtn.com


We don't hate gays but they are sinning.And GOD tells us to worship HIM and only HIM in both tetsaments.

In the first testament through the prophets and the new testament through GOD made flesh on earth.

Learn not to contradict yourself then maybe someone will take you seriously, you say you don't act the way I claimed you did then go on to call people sinners for not following 'your' god and all other gods are wrong except yours on the basis of because you say so. That you have nothing against gays but your god says they are sinners so you must go against them even though your morals say otherwise, you ignore your inner voice that tells you right from wrong and do what the book tells you like a good little puppet. I guess it has succeeded in its purpose, to degenerate people to a point where they are entirely reliant on it which then they can be controlled by people who claim to answerer to the book.

I'm not posting in this thread anymore, I have better things to do than argue with a drone who relies entirely on a age old book to tell him right from wrong. Even though his common morals tells him not to discriminate against gays and to be nice to other people regardless of their faith it is but a whisper now because that book has warped him so much he needs it to make any moral decisions.

Goodbye.

All my morals are from GOD.Not my mere human brain.How did I contradict myself?

Hey if fundamentalist Christians believe the bible is infallible, why do they disregard most of the laws of God written in Leviticus. These are laws of God by the way not Godly "Suggestions".

Yet fundamentalist Christians shave, cut their hair, eat pork, have graven images (that's any image or representation of a human being), make love (even in wedlock) outside of the timed period (no pun intended) put down.

GOD made flesh brought in the new and everlasting covenant in the new testamen.Let us not forget when HE told peter to eat pork and to preach to non Jews.Not all of mosaic law and the old covenant is still needed only the parts that JESUS perpetuated,such as if you divorce and then remarry over something silly such as the magic is gone you are commiting adultery.

HE then got rid of the LAW of the death penalty stated in the old covenant.

anymore, I have better things to do than argue with a drone who relies entirely on a age old book to tell him right from wrong. Even though his common morals tells him not to discriminate against gays and to be nice to other people regardless of their faith it is but a whisper now because that book has warped him so much he needs it to make any moral decisions.


1) Said "Common morals" will look completely out of place in a matter of decades. The Bible stays true throught

2) The Bible does not tell you to discriminate against anyone. It tells you to hate sin, but not sinners.

3) Christians should accept other faiths even if they believe its wrong. God never said to be intollerant of anything but sin.

But having another before GOD is a sin.

Hmm... thats something I hadnt considered in my own little philosophy. Loving another more than god is a sin, but what defines loving more? God is the father, not the wife though.

Im going to spend another few months thinking on this.

Why not pray to GOD for answers.HE is after all all knoledgable.

DID you read this yet?I want to know.

To notquiteaplace.Fine.I would like to try and convince you into my way of thinking.If that is okay with you please tell me.There is much that you don't know about GOD that I would like to explain to you with GOD's help.I used to be just like you.But then GOD showed HIMSELF to me.Mabe GOD is trying to rescue you through me.Like HE did for me through EWTN and lessons in life.

I don't know if you read this.

I will come to them myself even if its a straneg inspiration that does it.

Um.

Or "Myself" with a "strange" and "unexplained" idea.

Either way, it is something I will deliberate and analyze, the will of divine beings would make sense, so they can be reached in many parts by logic as much as faith surely?

You can try all you might but if a god exists he is either guiding me or I dont need it. Either way, I dont believe praying is wholly necessary as he would know your are thankful anyway, though I guess youd have to conciously think it, and praying brings that to the mind.

Hence my whole "means to an end" chain. Praying is not the bit he hears but the thought before. Praying would just help focus that.

GOD made flesh brought in the new and everlasting covenant in the new testamen.Let us not forget when HE told peter to eat pork and to preach to non Jews.Not all of mosaic law and the old covenant is still needed only the parts that JESUS perpetuated,such as if you divorce and then remarry over something silly such as the magic is gone you are commiting adultery.

HE then got rid of the LAW of the death penalty stated in the old covenant.

Yeah he may have told Peter that, but he didn't tell everyone else. So if Jesus didn't address an Old Testament law then you don't have to follow it? So since Jesus didn't say anything about incest is that OK?

HOW do you know HE didn't.
I guess it is only parts of the LAW that are scrapped in the new testament verbiliy that are no longer in affect.

How do you know he did.

And just where in the New Testament does Jesus say it is alright to disregard any of the laws of the old testament. I know he gave Peter Devine dispensation to eat pork, but you are assuming a lot on just one directive to just one person.

What you're doing is rationalizing away the laws of God out of personal convenience.

I'm not priest yet.So I am mostly using the teachings of BIBLE scholars.If you want answers go to the site that I am pluging.


http://www.ewtn.com

And watch their channel and listen to their radio program on sirius.


We often preach against nitpicking.We do NOT nitpick.Beleive me.

Wow...this thread is still going?

You can try all you might but if a god exists he is either guiding me or I dont need it. Either way, I dont believe praying is wholly necessary as he would know your are thankful anyway, though I guess youd have to conciously think it, and praying brings that to the mind.

Hence my whole "means to an end" chain. Praying is not the bit he hears but the thought before. Praying would just help focus that.
If the Bible is to be believed, prayer is almost entirely for our benefit, not for God's.

Hmm... thats something I hadnt considered in my own little philosophy. Loving another more than god is a sin, but what defines loving more? God is the father, not the wife though.

Im going to spend another few months thinking on this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

What GOD means is that YOU may not worship anyone but LORD our only GOD in HEAVEN.We also worship JESUS because JESUS is GOD made flesh on earth.

See.Anti CHRISTIANISIM.You suddenly make a joke because you don't like pentacostals. You might want to calm down.

Muhammed was a prophet of God. Allah is the same as God, as is Yahweh: they are two names for God. Buddha… not sure about him, yet.

Hinduism… I don't like that, because I'm a fanatic :) .


LCL, you are not going to get your own way by ranting. Be reasonable, like Neo.

Okay - if you hold your religion to your heart you are not one of the "pesky Christians." You are just a Christian.

People here have been telling you that if you are being harassed to lodge a complaint. That is not turning a blind eye. Yes, I know that more often than not it is more beneficial not to lodge a complaint, but that is because of how the system is set up. It has nothing to do with you being a Christian. In some companies anyone lodging a complaint for any reason is going to be given shit or fired.

But quit whining that people bashing you *because of your religion* is the same thing as people bashing your religion.

It sucks that a lot of assholes can't tell the people who worship from the peopole who are trying to force a specific religon down everyone's throat. But if you get attacked for your personal beliefs it is because your attackers are lumping you together with the "pesky Christians." Want to stop it? Speak out against the intolerance in Christianity itself. Clean your own house first. Thank you. I've been trying to do this myself. The only religious thing that I cannot tolerate EVER is Satanism. But that's obvious.

Hi! New here and appearing suddenly.


I don't like Buhda and I don't like Muhamed.

Muhaned said in the Koran to kill the infidels.

Buhda has kept millions of people from worshipping GOD and sent them to hell.

I would LOVE for the world to be run by the Pope.

I would love for everyone to be a devout catholic.

Then everyone would go to Heaven or at least purgatory.

This is a very CHRISTIAN belief.

The only problem I see with fundamentalists is that they are a little racist and that they are vengeful,the death penalty is a sin.

And that they do not recognize HOLY MOTHER CHURCH,the saints,and Our Lady

You worry me. I suggest that you discuss your problems with your minister - Christians, at least as far as I know, are encouraged to evangelize but at a reasonable pace. Screaming "you need to see the light, or you're going to hell!" is going to create animosity. To you it is a matter of complete urgency, but to them you're being annoying, think about it. The last time I went to a church, thats what the minister told the christians to do: Take it slow, its more successful.

As for me, I'm an agnostic I think, at least I believe that any of the religions are completely plausible and that the existence of G-d is impossible to determine barring an actual religious experience or something.

As for the rising stigma against Christianity... I disagree. Strongly.

There is a christian group in my school, there are churches everywhere in my city, my friends, religious or not get along well. When we get into a religous argument, we realize that its an impossible issue. My Christian friends tries to convert me all the time, I have nothing against that and neither does anyone else.

Plus, getting all annoyed at people insulting your religion and then ranting about it on a forum is rather childish. A simple "I don't appreciate you insulting my religion" should be enough and if they continue then be at ease knowing that you're above them in maturity.

btw, just wondering, is the bible the only readily availabe source to evidence of christianity?

true...but most dont employ the robes or similarites to roman gods.the gods where just turned into the saints, and since the main fighting is over the perversion of the Cahtolics and the sopposed hypocrisy that white southern christians connect with society...I mean these people are trying to repeal the new deal 4 god sakes... Saints were NOT gods. Saints were real people, with the exception of George.

Many Southern Christians are hypocrites. Bush, Falwell, Limbaugh…

Right, I'm a pervert. I knew that already. Tell me something I haven't been told.

Hi! New here and appearing suddenly.



You worry me. I suggest that you discuss your problems with your minister - Christians, at least as far as I know, are encouraged to evangelize but at a reasonable pace. Screaming "you need to see the light, or you're going to hell!" is going to create animosity. To you it is a matter of complete urgency, but to them you're being annoying, think about it. The last time I went to a church, thats what the minister told the christians to do: Take it slow, its more successful.

As for me, I'm an agnostic I think, at least I believe that any of the religions are completely plausible and that the existence of G-d is impossible to determine barring an actual religious experience or something.

As for the rising stigma against Christianity... I disagree. Strongly.

There is a christian group in my school, there are churches everywhere in my city, my friends, religious or not get along well. When we get into a religous argument, we realize that its an impossible issue. My Christian friends tries to convert me all the time, I have nothing against that and neither does anyone else.

Plus, getting all annoyed at people insulting your religion and then ranting about it on a forum is rather childish. A simple "I don't appreciate you insulting my religion" should be enough and if they continue then be at ease knowing that you're above them in maturity.

btw, just wondering, is the bible the only readily availabe source to evidence of christianity? Religious experiences are the best way, but believe me: there isn't any light. That would be stupid, I suppose… where was I?

There is a rising intolerance of religion, and because Christianity is the biggest, it gets the most shunting.

You're dead right about evangelisation though. I currently settle for clearing up misconceptions about Christianity though. When is the damnéd Catholic thing going to END… the hysteria, not the Church, I mean.

Catholics will rule the world because they have more children! More Catholics later on! So don't worry, LCL, just wait.

There is a rising intolerance of religion, and because Christianity is the biggest, it gets the most shunting.

Fundamentalism? - yes.

Religion? - not that I have ever seen

Fundamentalism? - yes.

Religion? - not that I have ever seen Where do you live? It's political correctness that's most annoying. It's not really a threat, but it's demeaning.

Fundamentalism is such a stupid term - as fundamentalists always ignore the fundamentals. Didn't it come from some society?

Where do you live?

Atlanta, GA.

It's political correctness that's most annoying. It's not really a threat, but it's demeaning.

To a point, it is a good thing. Past that point, it's really just silly.

Fundamentalism is such a stupid term - as fundamentalists always ignore the fundamentals. Didn't it come from some society?

I believe it came from a sociologist who studied fundamentalists of all religions about 10 years ago. The trends were that they held very tightly to whatever they felt was being attacked, but these things were pretty much universally insignificant details that had nothing to do with the religion as a whole. Fundies know very little about their religion - history/core beliefs/etc. but they are convinced that X (ie. "gays er bad, m'kay.") is *incredibly* important.

Like I said fundamentalists are little racist and vengeful.I.E. the death penalty.But they are not sphycotic lunies.Gays are wrong.If I had to walk down a gay street with a GOD condenms homosexuality! T-shirt I would gleefully.I do NOT hate gays just what they do.I hate liberalisim.NOT liberals.I hate other religions that are not Judaism and CHRISTIANITY.Not people who follow other religions.

Originally Posted by Local CHRISTIAN lands
I don't like Buhda and I don't like Muhamed.


Muhaned said in the Koran to kill the infidels.


Buhda has kept millions of people from worshipping GOD and sent them to hell.



I would LOVE for the world to be run by the Pope.

I would love for everyone to be a devout catholic.

Then everyone would go to Heaven or at least purgatory.

I am not a joke this is a VERY CHRISTIAN belief.
GOD said to worship HIM.If you don't you go to HELL.Plain and simple.If you do not believe this you are not following GOD's word.What you just said is antiCHRISTIAN.

Wow. This thread has reached a new record of offensiveness. Are you by any chance a Catholic from birth, or did you convert to it? You have the dogma of a rabidly devout. We live in a free world where people are free to choose their own faith or code of living as they see fit. Just because Buddhists don't believe in a god doesn't mean that they are not allowed to live their lives as they see fit. You can't write off a whole relidion just because it doesn't conform to your limited viewpoint.

I am a humanist and atheist. Yet my nickname is "Ed the Pure". I have moral values that follow what is taught by Christianity and other religions (or non-religions). It is just that big issue of a god with all his cosmic laws bothers me a bit. That and the hell and purgatory issue. Ever heard of Limbo? It always seems to me that the numerous gods aren't exactly "humane" in the way they select those who are saved and those who are damned. But then again, maybe you have to be human to be "humane". Christians and (to be fair) other religions try to use a lack of knowledge in the Bible or other holy texts. Do all the devout actually know much about the arguments against, like Freud's Psychological critique and Durkheim's and Sociological critique? This I am very interested to know.

PS, Local CHRISTIAN lands, in English grammar you tend to put a space after a full stop. I don't intend to be patronising, but I'm just trying to be a good little humanist and do a good deed in helping another person. Seems I don't have to be a Catholic to do that.

JESUS CHRIST is not a democracy.It is sinful to question GOD.Yes I can write off a whole religion.Buhda was wrong and Muhamed actually says in the koran to kill infidels.

However, where does it say in the Bible, "treat other religions like dirt as they don't believe in me"? And don't quote that "have no other God but myself" commandment at me as it is outdated. Christ might not be a democracy, but the Western world is. Be more liberal.

PS, have you heard of Freud and Durkheim? If not, I'll tell you about them.

Why so angry? When we allow others to make us angry, they control us almost as much as if we agree to be their slave. Your facts leave a great deal to be desired as well. Just one example ... Mary wasn't married when she became pregnant, she was betrothed.
true, she wasn't married...but she was a minor, and therefore God is a rapist rather than an adulterer. there is no way that Mary would have been neurologically capable of giving adult consent, and thus God molested a little girl and got her pregnant. what a loving God...

However, where does it say in the Bible, "treat other religions like dirt as they don't believe in me"? And don't quote that "have no other God but myself" commandment at me as it is outdated. Christ might not be a democracy, but the Western world is. Be more liberal.
Neither shalt thou bring any thing of the idol into thy house, lest thou become an anathema, like it. Thou shalt detest it as dung, and shalt utterly abhor it as uncleanness and filth, because it is an anathema.
--Deuteronomy viiXXVI


And liberalism is a sin.
PS, have you heard of Freud and Durkheim? If not, I'll tell you about them.
A Jew and a Jew, why would they be relevant?

no, the gods were NOT turned into the saints. the saints are ACTUAL People who died and were sainted by the pope. while the pope went crazy with this around the dark ages and in the past right now its very strict. also, its a very long process with 3 ridiculous steps and it takes DECADES for canonization

Assumption, and a wrong one I'm afraid.

I'm not claiming that ALL saints were derived from mythology... far from it, I'm sure - but certainly, some were:

Take, for example, St Bridgit (also referred to as: St. Bride, St. Brigidiani), for whom, there is no real evidence that she actually existed - although actions have been added to the 'mythology' surrounding her - and, in fact, a body has been claimed in her name.

It seems most likely that St. Bridgit was a Catholic acquisition from local Ulster lore about: "Brigit" or "Brigid", goddess of healing, smiths, fertility and poetry. She was the daughter of Dagda, and her name means "fiery arrow".

Okay.As long as we all agree that the real ones are called by GOD.

true, she wasn't married...but she was a minor, and therefore God is a rapist rather than an adulterer. there is no way that Mary would have been neurologically capable of giving adult consent, and thus God molested a little girl and got her pregnant. what a loving God...
You are mistaken, apparently because you lack a historical perspective of the term "minor." At the time of Mary's annunciation, it was not unusual at all for girls as young as 13 to be betrothed. It was a very patriarcal society and women were regarded as little more than chattle.

I'm afraid I don't understand your reference to "neurologically capable." Care to elaborate?

Neither shalt thou bring any thing of the idol into thy house, lest thou become an anathema, like it. Thou shalt detest it as dung, and shalt utterly abhor it as uncleanness and filth, because it is an anathema.
--Deuteronomy viiXXVI


And liberalism is a sin.

A Jew and a Jew, why would they be relevant?

Seems I was wrong- the offensiveness continues. And since when was liberalism a sin?

true, she wasn't married...but she was a minor, and therefore God is a rapist rather than an adulterer. there is no way that Mary would have been neurologically capable of giving adult consent, and thus God molested a little girl and got her pregnant. what a loving God...

Most people who disagree with the gospel do so in an intelligent manner. But I must say, this post sure strays from that trend.

In order for conception to occur among humans, an egg and an ovary must unite. This most often occurs through sexual relations, although it is increasingly common for this to occur through artificial insemination in this day and age (with absolutely no sex involved in the process). We as humans can already impregnate someone without the need for them to ever lose their virginity. God can do an even better job than we can in that regard. He can simply create the life inside the womans body without the need to go through the lab process we need to go through.

By the way, Mary was not a little girl, she was of marrying age and was in fact already betrothed and soon to be married. Also, consent has absolutely nothing to do with neurology, it is a sociological function having nothing to do with neurology.

You clearly know nothing about either the Bible or the Qu'ran. While there are simmilarites they branch off towards the begining.

All of a sudden you are some kind of authority, Neo?

I wasn't aware you had even read the bible, let alone the Koran.

Please, elaborate more.... or is just more commentary you ripped from some site?

Most people who disagree with the gospel do so in an intelligent manner. But I must say, this post sure strays from that trend.

In order for conception to occur among humans, an egg and an ovary must unite. This most often occurs through sexual relations, although it is increasingly common for this to occur through artificial insemination in this day and age (with absolutely no sex involved in the process). We as humans can already impregnate someone without the need for them to ever lose their virginity. God can do an even better job than we can in that regard. He can simply create the life inside the womans body without the need to go through the lab process we need to go through.

By the way, Mary was not a little girl, she was of marrying age and was in fact already betrothed and soon to be married. Also, consent has absolutely nothing to do with neurology, it is a sociological function having nothing to do with neurology.


Oops I made a slight oversight, can you spot it? Yup, it should read an egg and a sperm. ;)

Seems I was wrong- the offensiveness continues. And since when was liberalism a sin?
Critically Acclaimed by the Vatican and Praised by Pope Leo XIII:

El Liberalismo es Pecado: "Liberalism Is A Sin" (http://www.liberalismisasin.com/)
Rev. Dr. Don Felix Sarda y Salvany

JESUS CHRIST is not a democracy.It is sinful to question GOD.Yes I can write off a whole religion.Buhda was wrong and Muhamed actually says in the koran to kill infidels.

So - have you actually read the Koran, then?

I know people who have and Muhamed said that.

You are mistaken, apparently because you lack a historical perspective of the term "minor." At the time of Mary's annunciation, it was not unusual at all for girls as young as 13 to be betrothed. It was a very patriarcal society and women were regarded as little more than chattle.

so that means that it was moral to commit those acts, then? God couldn't be held to a higher moral standard than the humans of the time period? God's morality is determined by human society, not the other way around?

i'm not "mistaken," nor do i misunderstand the historical norms of the time period, i simply assumed that God was (as the Christians tell me) inherently good and moral...i assumed, therefore, that God would not act in an immoral manner just because human beings were acting in that immoral manner. therefore, according to Christianity, the rape of little girls is moral, because their all-good God is a child rapist.


I'm afraid I don't understand your reference to "neurologically capable." Care to elaborate?

regardless of the time period, Mary was of a biological age that is too young for her to have the physical ability to give what we consider adult consent. the frontal cortex regions that are responsible for adult decision making simply would not have existed in a female of her age, and therefore it is impossible for her to have consented to sex. regardless of the norms of the time, the fact remains that God had sex with a non-consenting female and impregnated her...that's rape, whether or not the laws of that time period considered it so or not. so God is a rapist, and Jesus was the product of the sexual exploitation of a little girl.

I know people who have and Muhamed said that.
cite the passage, please.

Mary did not have sex EVER.She was impregnated by the HOLY SPIRIT.


I will bring with me the passage after confession today and mass.

Mary did not have sex EVER.She was impregnated by the HOLY SPIRIT.
Jesus is called the Son of God, not the Son of the Holy Spirit, so i naturally assumed that the Father of the Son of God would be God. :)

Mary did not have sex EVER.She was impregnated by the HOLY SPIRIT.
That's what every girl who gets knocked up should say to her fiancé.

Mary did not have sex EVER.She was impregnated by the HOLY SPIRIT.
yeah, once.

That's what every girl who gets knocked up should say to her fiancé.
given the penalty for adultery or pre-marital sex in those days, i think the most likely historical explanation for the whole thing was that Mary lied her ass off to avoid being stoned to death for losing her viriginity before she was wed. the whole emaculate conception thing was just a clever way for her to avoid a violent and painful death...props to her, but do we really want to base a major religion on a teenage girl's fib about her babydaddy?

Jesus is called the Son of God, not the Son of the Holy Spirit, so i naturally assumed that the Father of the Son of God would be God. :)


The HOLY SPIRIT is part of GOD.JESUS the SON,GOD the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT is like them together.

They are all one.

cite the passage, please.
Remember Allah inspired the angels: "I am with you: give firmness to the believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
--Koran 8:12

Mary did not have sex EVER.She was impregnated by the HOLY SPIRIT.


I will bring with me the passage after confession today and mass.
:eek: Didn't Jesus have siblings?

:eek: Didn't Jesus have siblings?
more emaculate conceptions! it wasn't the mailman, honey, it was the Holy Spirit! i swear!

:eek: Didn't Jesus have siblings?
Iesus had no siblings.

No.Acording to Mosaic LAW Joseph could not touch her because GOD impregnated her.

Don't you DARE insult Mary.Even the protestants know not to inult her.

Don't you DARE insult Mary.Even the protestants know not to inult her.
Actually, the protestants do routinely insult the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Don't you DARE insult Mary.Even the protestants know not to inult her.
Mary is a stupid head!

dude, get over it. if you can't have a sense of humor about your faith then this is not the forum for you.

Iesus had no siblings.
I don't know, I could have sworn there was a passage somewhere about his brothers. I'll try to do a search.

Why?She is the Mother of GOD.Even they believe that.

HE called HIS disciples brothers.Just because HE said brother that is NOT proof that HE had them.

Mary is a stupid head!

dude, get over it. if you can't have a sense of humor about your faith then this is not the forum for you.

Making fun of the mother of GOD is not harmless fun.

Mary is a stupid head!

dude, get over it. if you can't have a sense of humor about your faith then this is not the forum for you.
I can almost see the blood vessels popping out of his pointy little head.

HE called HIS disciples brothers.Just because HE said brother that is NOT proof that HE had them.
I know he called his disciples brothers, but I also think he referred to some real brothers, not meaning brothers of faith.

Don't you DARE insult Mary.Even the protestants know not to inult her.

Mary had a child whose father she wasn't married to. Ie, she was a simple whore by catholic standards.

Why?She is the Mother of GOD.Even they believe that.
Protestants believe Mary just happened to be a regular sinful woman that simply bore Christ. They do not believe she was conceived immaculately, nor that she was specially chosen as the Mother of God. They even believe that Mary would have several other children with Joseph besides Iesus and that she basically died the same as any other human being.

I don't know, I could have sworn there was a passage somewhere about his brothers. I'll try to do a search.


It is believed that Jesus had four brothers and more than one sister though the sisters are not mentioned by name. His brothers are James, Joses, Simon, and Judas. It can be confusing to find mention of his brothers because of the fact that there is more than one James and more than one Judas in the new testament.

Catholics maintain that Jesus' siblings are the children of Joseph from a previous marriage. Protestants believe they are the children of Mary and Joseph.

Now you know what it felt like being a non-christian for the past 1500 years. Btw, you're still in the majority by far, so I'm sure you get *SO* much more abuse than other religions at the moment in the US. Just stfu imo, quit being a whiny little baby. If they harass you to much complain to a supervisor, dunno why you'd bring that to these forums.

Are you 1500 yrs old Phil? Stop making generalizations about christians
for the past 1500 yrs when we both know that the only people that are qualified to make such a statement would be ones who are at least 1500 yrs old, still living and have seen it for themselves. I am Christian ... when have I started a thread bashing non christians? Never. You are only attemping to defend the non christian people who are guilty of bashing christians across the board for things that individuals calling themselves christian have done to them real or imagined.
The reason it was posted in this forum is because non christians have been posting multiple threads bashing christians, demanding we explain ourselves to them in these forums Yet you say we shouldn't post our answers to
the original posts. Come on Phil .... get real.

I don't think that an attack on Christianity will get any more prominent or overt as it is. The only reason some NS posters attack it is because no one knows there names, faces, or anything. They wear masks, and that is a coward's tactic.
However, in the mainstream, I expect Christianity to have its substance attacked, but not its form. What I mean is that more Christians may turn away from the Church, but the Church itself will be relatively safe. Of course, a huge revival happens once every few centuries or so, and we are due for one in the next fifty years.

I don't think that an attack on Christianity will get any more prominent or overt as it is. The only reason some NS posters attack it is because no one knows there names, faces, or anything. They wear masks, and that is a coward's tactic.
However, in the mainstream, I expect Christianity to have its substance attacked, but not its form. What I mean is that more Christians may turn away from the Church, but the Church itself will be relatively safe. Of course, a huge revival happens once every few centuries or so, and we are due for one in the next fifty years.
When the Novus Ordo falls, that is...

Of course, a huge revival happens once every few centuries or so, and we are due for one in the next fifty years.
Personally, I think we're due for an entirely new religion, or perhaps a complete lack thereof. And hey, it could happen. No one believes in the Greek gods anymore....

Actually, the protestants do routinely insult the Blessed Virgin Mary.

No we don't!, read the Apostles Creed - its the same..."Born of the Virgin Mary" - the only thing I don't agree with it is having her or any Apostles Statue up in a house of God.

No we don't!, read the Apostles Creed - its the same..."Born of the Virgin Mary" - the only thing I don't agree with it is having her or any Apostles Statue up in a house of God.
The Apostles Creed is a Catholic creed...

The Apostles Creed is a Catholic creed...

You do know that Churches who use the Lutheran doctrine also use the same creed however at peoples own discression we can change the word Catholic to Christian.

And you do know that the word "Catholic" only means Universal.

You do know that Churches who use the Lutheran doctrine also use the same creed however at peoples own discression we can change the word Catholic to Christian.
It is a solely Catholic creed nonetheless...
Even if so, that does not reflect anything but the hypocrisy of the protestant who claims Mary was just a regular woman born with original sin.

And you do know that the word "Catholic" only means Universal.
Catholic refers to the Holy Church of Rome, the Church of Iesus Christ.

so that means that it was moral to commit those acts, then? God couldn't be held to a higher moral standard than the humans of the time period? God's morality is determined by human society, not the other way around?

i'm not "mistaken," nor do i misunderstand the historical norms of the time period, i simply assumed that God was (as the Christians tell me) inherently good and moral...i assumed, therefore, that God would not act in an immoral manner just because human beings were acting in that immoral manner. therefore, according to Christianity, the rape of little girls is moral, because their all-good God is a child rapist.



regardless of the time period, Mary was of a biological age that is too young for her to have the physical ability to give what we consider adult consent. the frontal cortex regions that are responsible for adult decision making simply would not have existed in a female of her age, and therefore it is impossible for her to have consented to sex. regardless of the norms of the time, the fact remains that God had sex with a non-consenting female and impregnated her...that's rape, whether or not the laws of that time period considered it so or not. so God is a rapist, and Jesus was the product of the sexual exploitation of a little girl. You are being stupidly immature. Creating a child inside a woman is not the same as raping her. What is this about "sexual exploitation"…? The whole point is that she wasn't supposed to have had sex. Another thing, to those who talk about pre-marital sex - SHE WAS MARRIED. To Joseph. Or was she? If I'm wrong, please do correct me. But going on about God raping her… he created a child inside her, didn't rape her.
is your mother entirely faithful? (If you want to get angry about that, consider your other comments.)

It is a solely Catholic creed nonetheless...
Even if so, that does not reflect anything but the hypocrisy of the protestant who claims Mary was just a regular woman born with original sin.


Catholic refers to the Holy Church of Rome, the Church of Iesus Christ.

Go to a Lutheran Church meeting, don't tell me something I know quite well. We don't bash Mary, in fact apart from the Apostles Creed she comes up not that much in Church. But in all the Protestant Churches I have been into I have never ever heard a remark insulting Mary or calling her a Regular Woman with Original Sin.

And I can assure you Catholic means Universal as at one time it was the only Church. From the mouth of several pasters I have had in the past.

Go to a Lutheran Church meeting, don't tell me something I know quite well. We don't bash Mary, in fact apart from the Apostles Creed she comes up not that much in Church. But in all the Protestant Churches I have been into I have never ever heard a remark insulting Mary or calling her a Regular Woman with Original Sin.

And I can assure you Catholic means Universal as at one time it was the only Church. From the mouth of several pasters I have had in the past. Catholic: universal (what Jesus was referring to with the "one true Catholic Church").

Roman Catholic: the church of Rome that we talk of when we say Catholic.

Catholic: universal (what Jesus was referring to with the "one true Catholic Church").

Roman Catholic: the church of Rome that we talk of when we say Catholic.

Thanks for clearing that up mate :)

You are being stupidly immature. Creating a child inside a woman is not the same as raping her. What is this about "sexual exploitation"…? The whole point is that she wasn't supposed to have had sex. Another thing, to those who talk about pre-marital sex - SHE WAS MARRIED. To Joseph. Or was she? If I'm wrong, please do correct me. But going on about God raping her… he created a child inside her, didn't rape her.
is your mother entirely faithful? (If you want to get angry about that, consider your other comments.)
How is it significantly different? Simply saying it is different doesn't make your case for you. Reduce the story to its basic essentials and here's what you have--a powerful God, unquestionably in the male role, impregnates a female without giving her any real choice in the matter (there's also a case for sexual harassment to be made here). Even assuming she was of an age to make a choice, was there any way for her to truly deny the pregnancy option if she had wanted? How is that not rape?

More importantly, you have to understand that you and most of the defenders on this thread are treating as literal fact something that you would laugh at if it didn't involve your religion. Think about it--is there any real difference between the immaculate conception and the story of Zeus and Danae, other than the fact that it's your religion we're dealing with? In terms of basic symbology, there's not much of a difference--but nobody believes in Zeus and a significant portion of the world believes in the Virgin birth. Why is that?

Go to a Lutheran Church meeting, don't tell me something I know quite well. We don't bash Mary, in fact apart from the Apostles Creed she comes up not that much in Church. But in all the Protestant Churches I have been into I have never ever heard a remark insulting Mary or calling her a Regular Woman with Original Sin.
First of all, it is an essential protestant belief that Mary was born with original sin and that the Catholic Church had "idolized" her.
Secondly, you have pointed out yet another hypocritical facet of protestantism. Among the more mainline "denominations," you may find churches named after many saints, but you will never find one named "St. Mary's." Virtually all Protestants deny her Scriptural prophecy that all generations will call her Blessed, for fear of being accused of "crypto-Catholicism" from the protestant ambo. Of course from a more fundamentalist denomination, you're bound to hear much more blasphemy than just the total silence on the doctrine by "mainliners," like the Lutherans.

And I can assure you Catholic means Universal as at one time it was the only Church. From the mouth of several pasters I have had in the past.
Yes, and it is a mark of the Holy Church.

How is it significantly different? Simply saying it is different doesn't make your case for you. Reduce the story to its basic essentials and here's what you have--a powerful God, unquestionably in the male role, impregnates a female without giving her any real choice in the matter (there's also a case for sexual harassment to be made here). Even assuming she was of an age to make a choice, was there any way for her to truly deny the pregnancy option if she had wanted? How is that not rape?

More importantly, you have to understand that you and most of the defenders on this thread are treating as literal fact something that you would laugh at if it didn't involve your religion. Think about it--is there any real difference between the immaculate conception and the story of Zeus and Danae, other than the fact that it's your religion we're dealing with? In terms of basic symbology, there's not much of a difference--but nobody believes in Zeus and a significant portion of the world believes in the Virgin birth. Why is that?

Shut up.

Shut up.
There's a pithy rejoinder.

There's a pithy rejoinder.
Well, I have decided that I'm through with you. You're incessant use of the f-word, your lack of tolerance to absolutely anyone to the left or right of you, and your disregard for other people's feelings has gotten on my nerves. I guess that's what happens to poets: you guys get arrogant. You are a living example of why prose is better.

Well, I have decided that I'm through with you. You're incessant use of the f-word, your lack of tolerance to absolutely anyone to the left or right of you, and your disregard for other people's feelings has gotten on my nerves. I guess that's what happens to poets: you guys get arrogant. You are a living example of why prose is better.

In short, you can't come up with an actual response to his points.

I think all parties need to take a break from this thread before it turns into a flamewar.

Unfree People
Forum Moderator

In short, you can't come up with an actual response to his points.
I can. I want to say that God did not impregnate Mary, but rather, chose to manifest himself in Mary. They did not have sex, and Mary had no part in reproducing Christ. She was simply the chosen carrier, which was an honor in itself. It was not like a god who impregnates a woman in classic mythology.
But I am getting annoyed with Incertonia.

I can. I want to say that God did not impregnate Mary, but rather, chose to manifest himself in Mary. They did not have sex, and Mary had no part in reproducing Christ. She was simply the chosen carrier, which was an honor in itself. It was not like a god who impregnates a woman in classic mythology.
But I am getting annoyed with Incertonia.

Dude. Impregnate = puts baby inside.

Mary gave birth with a child she didn't want. Said child was forced on her. If you went out and raped someone, then told her it was an HONOR for her to bear your child, it doesn't change the fact that she has to carry your baby without wanting it.

Only, God didn't even do THAT. He sent someone else to tell her. What a sleeze.

*groan*

I think that someone should have closed the thread back at 50 posts....threads like these serve no purpose but to turn into flamewars, and this one went there a while back.

I will point out, however, that it must be expected that Jesus had brothers and sisters, and probably has descendants; Mary may have concieved Jesus as a virgin, but she did have Joseph....does anyone really think they would have just said "NO MORE KIDS!" after Jesus was born?

What do you call this "we must be politically correct to not offend anyone!" nonsense? It's allowing minority fringe groups to essentially supress the majority, which, in the United States, is Christian, whether they be Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, etc.

Take, for example, the fact that around this time of year my town puts a massive menorah in front of town hall, but no Christmas tree. Why? So they don't offend the Jews. Ok, I'm fine with that, but, what about the Christians? Either offend or please both, not just one or the other!

The other thing I have a problem with is Atheists complaining about God being mentioned in schools, and then whining when their children come home, ask what God is, and then they have to explain it to them. A simple solution: Explain to their kids that there are other religions in the country that worship a figure called God, whom they believe created the Earth and life.

But no, everyone has to complain, and we get more of this political correctness crap and so Christians get increasingly oppressed and pushed around. I know that we have bullied other religions in the past, but, that is exactly what it is, the past. It was wrong, but it happened a LONG time ago, the Roman Catholic church has since been drastically reformed, and all the Protestant denominations have been formed. It's behind us now, stop bearing grudges.

Instead, that is what's happening, and I, as a fairly devout Catholic, have noticed an increasingly ant-Christian mentality among people.

Dude. Impregnate = puts baby inside.

Mary gave birth with a child she didn't want. Said child was forced on her. If you went out and raped someone, then told her it was an HONOR for her to bear your child, it doesn't change the fact that she has to carry your baby without wanting it.

Only, God didn't even do THAT. He sent someone else to tell her. What a sleeze.
Even if she didn't want a baby, she certainly didn't seem to mind it. She even loved Him.

What do you call this "we must be politically correct to not offend anyone!" nonsense? It's allowing minority fringe groups to essentially supress the majority, which, in the United States, is Christian, whether they be Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, etc.

Uh, that's kind of the point behind the government. To prevent a tyranny of the majority from supressing the minority.

Take, for example, the fact that around this time of year my town puts a massive menorah in front of town hall, but no Christmas tree. Why? So they don't offend the Jews. Ok, I'm fine with that, but, what about the Christians? Either offend or please both, not just one or the other!
I keep hearing this story, and I never see a source.

The other thing I have a problem with is Atheists complaining about God being mentioned in schools, and then whining when their children come home, ask what God is, and then they have to explain it to them. A simple solution: Explain to their kids that there are other religions in the country that worship a figure called God, whom they believe created the Earth and life.
Why is god being mentioned in schools though?

But no, everyone has to complain, and we get more of this political correctness crap and so Christians get increasingly oppressed and pushed around. I know that we have bullied other religions in the past, but, that is exactly what it is, the past. It was wrong, but it happened a LONG time ago, the Roman Catholic church has since been drastically reformed, and all the Protestant denominations have been formed. It's behind us now, stop bearing grudges.
You first. Shut up Phelps and Falwell and their ilk and we'll negotiate.

nstead, that is what's happening, and I, as a fairly devout Catholic, have noticed an increasingly ant-Christian mentality among people.
Funny, how when you push, people push back.

Even if she didn't want a baby, she certainly didn't seem to mind it. She even loved Him.

Doesn't matter, still rape if she wasn't consenting. I'm sure there's going to be at least one rape victim who keeps and lovs the child, doesn't make the act right.

Why is god being mentioned in schools though?
Children need to be educated on the Truth.


You first. Shut up Phelps and Falwell and their ilk and we'll negotiate.
Heretics must be silenced, indeed.


Funny, how when you push, people push back.
You push incessantly against the Truth...

Doesn't matter, still rape if she wasn't consenting. I'm sure there's going to be at least one rape victim who keeps and lovs the child, doesn't make the act right.
That doesn't matter. She was still the best human to carry God's child. Remember, as Isiah said, God's ways are not our ways. In other words, we inherently think far different than He does.

That doesn't matter. She was still the best human to carry God's child. Remember, as Isiah said, God's ways are not our ways. In other words, we inherently think far different than He does.

Hey, I don't care what his ways are, because apparently they include rape.

Children need to be educated on the Truth.
Not in my public schools


Heretics must be silenced, indeed.
Once again, you first ;)


You push incessantly against the Truth...
And you keeping capitalizing "truth" event hough it is neither a proper noun or at the beginning of a sentance, but I'm forgiving type of guy.

And you keeping capitalizing "truth" event hough it is neither a proper noun or at the beginning of a sentance, but I'm forgiving type of guy.
Truth is a proper noun.

Hey, I don't care what his ways are, because apparently they include rape.

Well, okay. I don't like to get involved too heavily in theological debates. For one, they are too circular for me. For another, I have followed a little code of conduct: every man and woman can go to Hell in their own way. If you know about Christianity, I don't interfere.

Truth is a proper noun.

Uh, I'd need some context then.

Well, okay. I don't like to get involved too heavily in theological debates. For one, they are too circular for me. For another, I have followed a little code of conduct: every man and woman can go to Hell in their own way. If you know about Christianity, I don't interfere.

Does your code of conduct include rape? Mine doesn't. Yet I'm the one going to hell, and the rapist is ruler of the universe.

How again is this different from Zeus?

Children need to be educated on the Truth.

Ah, I see you're one of those people who hate the US constitution. Are you angry because you can't push your beliefs on little kids?

Funny how these days it's not ok to force every woman to wear a burka, but it's ok to force Christianity and its values on everyone?

I guess that's what happens to poets: you guys get arrogant. You are a living example of why prose is better.

Hey, don't start bashing poets as well: some of us happen to like the poets, both old and new.

How does Shakespeare fit into your mindset?

Does your code of conduct include rape? Mine doesn't. Yet I'm the one going to hell, and the rapist is ruler of the universe.

How again is this different from Zeus?
We won't discuss this again. As I said, I do not interfere. And in case you are wondering, arguing with me will not influence me, and it sure won't influence you. I tried to stay out of religion threads, but I'm having far too much fun chasing down certain parties in them.

We won't discuss this again. As I said, I do not interfere. And in case you are wondering, arguing with me will not influence me, and it sure won't influence you. I tried to stay out of religion threads, but I'm having far too much fun chasing down certain parties in them.

I'm not the one that claims "it's different from Zeus!" only to back down when proven wrong.

:mad: I am the Anti-Christ :mad:

Critically Acclaimed by the Vatican and Praised by Pope Leo XIII:

El Liberalismo es Pecado: "Liberalism Is A Sin" (http://www.liberalismisasin.com/)
Rev. Dr. Don Felix Sarda y Salvany

How very intriguing. I should read it, and then develop a sound argument to rebut you. However, here's my first attempt:

I assume you are American, Defensor Fidei. If I'm wrong I apologise, and my whole argument goes up in smoke. America is supposed to have the moniker "land of the free". Now what form of political system has the very word freedom in its title: LIBERALism. It's like the old Paul Simon song: "high up above I could plainly see the statue of Liberty sailing away to sea". Disturbing image, even for someone from Britain. Christianity and other religions highlight an importance for freedom and Liberalism, unlike the author of this book. Find some for of freedom and tolerance in your faith.

I will read that book, it looks interesting, and thank you for showing it to me.

PS. No need to shout, I can read small fonts.

How very intriguing. I should read it, and then develop a sound argument to rebut you. However, here's my first attempt:

I assume you are American Defensor Fidei. If I'm wrong I apologise, and my whole argument goes up in smoke. America is supposed to have the moniker "land of the free". Now what form of political system has the very word freedom in its title: LIBERALism. It's like the old Paul Simon song: "high up above I could plainly see the statue of Liberty sailing away to sea". Disturbing image, even for someone from Britain. Christianity and other religions highlight an importance for freedom and Liberalism, unlike the author of this book. Find some for of freedom and tolerance in your faith.
Hey that image reminds me....
http://www.crusader.net/images/liberty.gif

I will read that book, it looks interesting, and thank you for showing it to me.

PS. No need to shout, I can read small fonts.
That is good, then. Perhaps you will come to arrive at the Truth.

How is it significantly different? Simply saying it is different doesn't make your case for you. Reduce the story to its basic essentials and here's what you have--a powerful God, unquestionably in the male role, impregnates a female without giving her any real choice in the matter (there's also a case for sexual harassment to be made here). Even assuming she was of an age to make a choice, was there any way for her to truly deny the pregnancy option if she had wanted? How is that not rape?

More importantly, you have to understand that you and most of the defenders on this thread are treating as literal fact something that you would laugh at if it didn't involve your religion. Think about it--is there any real difference between the immaculate conception and the story of Zeus and Danae, other than the fact that it's your religion we're dealing with? In terms of basic symbology, there's not much of a difference--but nobody believes in Zeus and a significant portion of the world believes in the Virgin birth. Why is that?

God is neither male or female. The whole father thing is protection.

Yes, I admit that I would laugh at it if I didn't believe it. Just like I thought the idea of God was stupid when I disbelieved… that's just a dead end.

Yes, there is a huge difference between Zeus/Danae and God. The Greek and Roman gods were notorious for chasing nymphs and behaving like drunk humans. Looking from a Christian point of view, God is absolutely right, and so has the right to assert his will. This includes creating the world, smiting Sodom, and in this case, creating a child.

To call it rape or sex is stupid. It is simply creation of a child. VIRGIN birth: VIRGIN means you have not had sex. Ergo: God didn't rape her.

To the whole "she didn't have a choice" thing: well, God obviously chose her for a reason. God often does things that people don't like; but it's for the greater good. For instance, I'd wager the inhabitants of Sodom didn't appreciate being nuked.

Getting a taste of what happens to us non Christians.

But you are right it is not right for them to make fun of you, as long as you are not harming them it shouldn’t be an issue

But honestly you should try being a non Christian though … (being agnostic is not as bad as being atheist … because if you tell someone your agnostic your average Christian or other religious fellow does not know what that is … doesn’t have the buzz word quality of atheist)
I get called “heathen” once a day or so :) ehhh oh well


As for the “rise” honestly I chock it up to people getting frustrated with Christians trying to run their lives … on top of that familiarity


Its not right but it is what happens sometimes
I am sorry it is happening at your work place


Why is being an atheist bad? I am proud to say I do not belive in God or Jesus Christ. People need to accept all religons and people who don't have one. Non-Christians are mad because just because we don't belive in your "savior" we are deemed immoral and evil. That is simply not the case. I only have issues with Christians when they tell me things like "Jesus will save your soul from Lucifer" or "You are one of God's children so embrace it." I belive in science not Jesus. Let me do that and we can get along fine. And to the person who started this let me say I am sorry from the bottom of my heart. Those people should respect you for your faith. I hope you give me the same respect I give you.

Ah, I see you're one of those people who hate the US constitution. Are you angry because you can't push your beliefs on little kids?

Funny how these days it's not ok to force every woman to wear a burka, but it's ok to force Christianity and its values on everyone?

I totaly agree. Well put and kudos to you.

Hey that image reminds me....
http://www.crusader.net/images/liberty.gif

Good grief. You are like a puritanical WASP from the beginning of the twentieth century. They are completely different things. Besides, if we didn't have immigrants, we wouldn't have skilled labourers. They immigrate to try and get a job and escape oppresion from radicals and extremists. (Such as yourself, perhaps).

That is good, then. Perhaps you will come to arrive at the Truth.

Very unlikely. But unlike you to me, I am willing to attempt to appreciate your viewpoint, however radical. Does anyone think stem-cell research is a good thing?

Good grief. You are like a puritanical WASP from the beginning of the twentieth century. They are completely different things. Besides, if we didn't have immigrants, we wouldn't have skilled labourers. They immigrate to try and get a job and escape oppresion from radicals and extremists. (Such as yourself, perhaps).
White immigrants, yes, but non-Whites immigrate to have a state to thrive off of in more ways than one.
And Puritans/wasPs are vile heretics who look only to benefit themselves and line their pockets like the judaizers that they are.


Very unlikely. But unlike you to me, I am willing to attempt to appreciate your viewpoint, however radical. Does anyone think stem-cell research is a good thing?
No.

White immigrants, yes, but non-Whites immigrate to have a state to thrive off of in more ways than one.

That's a bit of a generalisation: with non-white immigratns it's even more likely they emmigrated to try and lead a life not dogged by prejudice. Poor fools that they are (No offense, non-white immigrants, I'm generalising). Surely the deserving deserve a chance: isn't that a christain ethic.

No.

Any real reason, using facts and a sentence longer than two letters?

That's a bit of a generalisation: with non-white immigratns it's even more likely they emmigrated to try and lead a life not dogged by prejudice. Poor fools that they are (No offense, non-white immigrants, I'm generalising). Surely the deserving deserve a chance: isn't that a christain ethic.
And why are they incapable of building up their own countries, if these people are so noble?



Any real reason, using facts and a sentence longer than two letters?
It is an abomination before God.

technically, the Christian religion benefits from persecution - the numbr of followers has always increased in such situations.

Religious persecution today is almost inevitable...I sugget however that you accept what is happening and work against it in a productive rather than whiney way - I don't see anywhere in the Bible where Jesus moaned about persecution like this.

Just for the record, I'm a Christian.

...like the judaizers that they are.

Could you explain the term 'judaizer' to me, it is not one I have ever come across anyone else using, if If I remember correctly.

It is an abomination before God.

That doesn't answer the question, which was; 'does anyone think stem cell research is a good thing?'

and the answer to that is obviously yes...at a vote in the state of California alongside those for the US president, the people of the state accepted a motion to provide funding for stem cell research. I'd say that's support for it, whether you agree with it or not.

Could you explain the term 'judaizer' to me, it is not one I have ever come across anyone else using, if If I remember correctly.
One of the major difficulties the early Church would have to overcome would be the judaization of doctrine. Suppressing the heresies of the judaizers is integral to the Christian Faith. Judaizers desire to inflict wicked judaic absurdities onto every institution and serve the Jew.

One of the major difficulties the early Church would have to overcome would be the judaization of doctrine. Suppressing the heresies of the judaizers is integral to the Christian Faith. Judaizers desire to inflict wicked judaic absurdities onto every institution and serve the Jew.

Judaizers is a term produced by narrow-minded, pathetic, racist and paranoid individuals. It is unlikely they really exist, and if they do, it is merely to serve themselves rather than the Jewish race.

That doesn't answer the question, which was; 'does anyone think stem cell research is a good thing?'

and the answer to that is obviously yes...at a vote in the state of California alongside those for the US president, the people of the state accepted a motion to provide funding for stem cell research. I'd say that's support for it, whether you agree with it or not.
They support it but they know it is most certainly a bad thing.

They support it but they know it is most certainly a bad thing.

if they KNOW it is a bad thing, then why do they support it?

White immigrants, yes, but non-Whites immigrate to have a state to thrive off of in more ways than one.
And Puritans/wasPs are vile heretics who look only to benefit themselves and line their pockets like the judaizers that they are.

Does it bother you that Jesus wasn't white? Or even SANTA CLAUS? Oh, how the little children are deceived! :rolleyes:

if they KNOW it is a bad thing, then why do they support it?
Because they are wicked servants of Satan.

Does it bother you that Jesus wasn't white? Or even SANTA CLAUS? Oh, how the little children are deceived! :rolleyes:
Oh but He was....

Well, I have decided that I'm through with you. You're incessant use of the f-word, your lack of tolerance to absolutely anyone to the left or right of you, and your disregard for other people's feelings has gotten on my nerves. I guess that's what happens to poets: you guys get arrogant. You are a living example of why prose is better.Hey man, the post that you responded to had none of those things to complain about. There were no f-words, there was no lack of tolerance, and there was no particular disregard for other peoples' feelings (although if you're going to get your feelings hurt, you probably don't want to be hanging around on an internet forum). I'm not here to pander to you, or even to talk to you if you don't want to engage in a conversation. I've got no qualms about putting those people I think add nothing to the conversation on my ignore list--you're not on there and I have no plans to add you--but I wouldn't think any less of you if you decided to do it to me (okay, so I would, a little, but if you don't care what I think, it really doesn't matter, now does it?).

Oh but He was....


You know, it is believed that Santa Claus is merely a modern-day version of "the old man of the North", a figure which evolved from the pagan god Pan.

You know, it is believed that Santa Claus is merely a modern-day version of "the old man of the North", a figure which evolved from the pagan god Pan.
What is your point, fruit?

What is your point, fruit?

just adding a random comment.

Like I said fundamentalists are little racist and vengeful.I.E. the death penalty.But they are not sphycotic lunies.Gays are wrong.If I had to walk down a gay street with a GOD condenms homosexuality! T-shirt I would gleefully.I do NOT hate gays just what they do.I hate liberalisim.NOT liberals.I hate other religions that are not Judaism and CHRISTIANITY.Not people who follow other religions.

Who are *you* to know what and who God will choose to condemn? Are gays any more wrong than anyone who has against one of Jesus' or God's other commandments ?

If you do wear that t-shirt perhaps you may wish to carry a sign with the following facing toward yourself so that you can read it and think about what you are doing.


Luke 6 37-38

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

Personally, I think we're due for an entirely new religion, or perhaps a complete lack thereof. And hey, it could happen. No one believes in the Greek gods anymore....

Have you heard of New Age? Its happening right now.

Christians are just going to have to accept that they are a declining religion and have had a good run.

Christians are just going to have to accept that they are a declining religion and have had a good run.
No, Christendom shall be restored!

Hey man, the post that you responded to had none of those things to complain about. There were no f-words, there was no lack of tolerance, and there was no particular disregard for other peoples' feelings (although if you're going to get your feelings hurt, you probably don't want to be hanging around on an internet forum). I'm not here to pander to you, or even to talk to you if you don't want to engage in a conversation. I've got no qualms about putting those people I think add nothing to the conversation on my ignore list--you're not on there and I have no plans to add you--but I wouldn't think any less of you if you decided to do it to me (okay, so I would, a little, but if you don't care what I think, it really doesn't matter, now does it?).
Look, it's not that it was that particular post. I was always angry with you, and exploded. You were never like what you are now. You were once more reasonable.

Hey Defensor Fidei, hate to break it to you, but that is the truth. And only people we Christians can blame are ourselves.

Hey Defensor Fidei, hate to break it to you, but that is the truth. And only people we Christians can blame are ourselves.
Our Lady of Fatima has promised the restoration of His Glory when a number of conditions are met, including the consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart.

Our Lady of Fatima has promised the restoration of His Glory when a number of conditions are met, including the consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart.
You've got to be kidding me--no one is really this much of a tool.

You've got to be kidding me--no one is really this much of a tool.
What? :confused:

Originally Posted by Defensor Fidei
Our Lady of Fatima has promised the restoration of His Glory when a number of conditions are met, including the consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart.
What I'd like to know is what on earth does this mean? It seems to be in English, and in reading previous posts, I had assumed Defensor Fidei was Christian, but I don't understand the statement.

What? :confused:
I'm saying you're putting on an act.

I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic to proove a point... No one is that brainwashed...

http://xoomer.virgilio.it/ivanaocat/images/fatima5.jpg
"I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church...
In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph."
~Our Lady of Fatima, July 13 1917

My pastor today pretty much summed it right up. "It’s ok to attack Christianity but to do so to any other religion would be considered a Crime" (which from what I have seen, not just on this board is pretty much true)

I never heard him speak until today and he was great. Sadly he is only there for a couple of months until we get a new pastor.

Every where I go I see it, the filth that these anti Christ spread in an attempt to shut us up, to make us stray from the flock. One such instance is at work; I have been there for about 2 months now and have never had a problem with anyone. Once I got asked the question "did you get a **** on the weekend?" I responded that I was Christian and that it was in my view and faith immoral to have sex out of wedlock. Well needless to say after that I have received nothing but insults about my faith. From questions that can be debated with to ones of pure rubbish (I won't post the questions but many are sick)

What really upsets me is that none of them even have the slightest clue of Christianity but bash it as if they know ever detail.

And it hasn't just been like it at work but every where I have been I have seen it. Has it risen in your area lately?


Tolerance my dear. Tolerance. It's what Christ teaches us and we need to learn to speak through silence.

All this does is give them more steam to their fire.

They do this because they see Christians hate homosexuals. They see us protesting against woman's rights.

They see what Christians do, see it as intolerance, and therefore conclude that this is what Christianity is about.

What we as Christians need to do is to change the way we act. We need to change our lives and give God control.

They will see through our change and our actions that Christianity isn't about intolerance.

Tolerance my dear. Tolerance. It's what Christ teaches us and we need to learn to speak through silence.

All this does is give them more steam to their fire.

They do this because they see Christians hate homosexuals. They see us protesting against woman's rights.

They see what Christians do, see it as intolerance, and therefore conclude that this is what Christianity is about.

What we as Christians need to do is to change the way we act. We need to change our lives and give God control.

They will see through our change and our actions that Christianity isn't about intolerance.
We must change by restoring the Christian Tradition.

We must change by restoring the Christian Tradition.

So ya'll are going to go back to fighting naked against lions? Well.. If you want to you can... Just make sure I get tickets.

So ya'll are going to go back to fighting naked against lions? Well.. If you want to you can... Just make sure I get tickets.
More like Medieval Tradition, fool. The tables turn by the grace of God...

More like Medieval Tradition, fool. The tables turn by the grace of God...

Well You see, I sorta figured you meant the oldest traditions... But sure, if you're into the whole merciles opression of innocents thing that works too. Just leave me outta that.

Well You see, I sorta figured you meant the oldest traditions... But sure, if you're into the whole merciles opression of innocents thing that works too. Just leave me outta that.
There was no "oppression of innocents" thing.

There was no "oppression of innocents" thing.

Oh really... Many dead "heretics" would probably argue that point.

Oh really... Many dead "heretics" would probably argue that point.
You are distorting and severely overestimating the policy of execution. The Church did not execute people, only secular authorities did, and this was seldom done. Either way, a heretic is hardly an "innocent."

You are distorting and severely overestimating the policy of execution. The Church did not execute people, only secular authorities did, and this was seldom done. Either way, a heretic is hardly an "innocent."

Funny... I seem to remember the pope as being the person who OKed the inquisition, pretty much giving permission for heretics to be killed.

Heretics WERE inocent. The church just didn't like having its absolute authority over the people questioned. You see the church has always been more interested in money and in political power than in the word of god.

Do you want to bring back indulgences as well? After all, nothing made the medieval church happier than money.

Either way, a heretic is hardly an "innocent."

As are Catholic Priests and Popes for that matter.....

Funny... I seem to remember the pope as being the person who OKed the inquisition, pretty much giving permission for heretics to be killed.

Heretics WERE inocent. The church just didn't like having its absolute authority over the people questioned. You see the church has always been more interested in money and in political power than in the word of god.

Do you want to bring back indulgences as well? After all, nothing made the medieval church happier than money.
I) The Glorious Inquisition did no such thing
II) Heretics are not innocent
III) The Roman Catholic Church is the Church of God

As are Catholic Priests and Popes for that matter.....
For what matter? Specifics?

I) The Glorious Inquisition did no such thing
II) Heretics are not innocent
III) The Roman Catholic Church is the Church of God

I) Right.... so true... The inquisition was a tool of terror used to control people into following hte abusive church of christ.
II) Oh.. Certainly not... They had the GALL to not allow the church to control their thoughts! What terrible, terrible thoughtcrimes they commit.
III) As long as god is defined by money.

I) Right.... http://www.augustana.edu/academ/history/witchcraft/tor4.htm so true... The inquisition was a tool of terror used to control people into following hte abusive church of christ.
II) Oh.. Certainly not... They had the GALL to not allow the church to control their thoughts! What terrible, terrible thoughtcrimes they commit.
III) As long as god is defined by money.
I) Real objective "source" you got there :rolleyes:
II) The salvation of souls is far more important
III) ... :rolleyes:

I) Real objective "source" you got there :rolleyes:
II) The salvation of souls is far more important
III) ... :rolleyes:

I) Yeah... I went and read the entire thing. Just removed it, looking for a better source right now.
II) As long as salvation is defined by brutaly opressing, and murdering.
III) That has always been my response to the greed of the church.

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Inquisition

And yet, "Phil Lives Here" has a point. Only in our modern society do people complain about problems that they have to people who can
a) not help them
b) if anything, criticise them
For surely, any other christian like you would experience the same problems, and anyone who doesn't agree with you will now post against you and make you feel bad. If you are looking for people to agree with you, then go to your church, but bringing an issue like that here seems a bit off to me.
It's as if you're simply spouting your problems into the internet so that people will be sorry for you. Well, it aint gunna happen.

'Truth': Something you really, really, REALLY want to be true, and will defend to the death in face of all evidence, while trying to convince as many people as you can that it's true.

catholics have all that shit from the old roman empire still with em

Alas we are the majority but that is only because we hold to the one true faith. We do not faulter nor will we fail God. And don't be childish to come here and tell me to "STFU" if you didn't want to hear what I had to say, you shouldn't have opened the thread. The point I am making is that it is now "alright" to abuse Christians but if you did it to any other faith it wouldn't be acceptable. And the fact we are the majority just means we are under attack by more people who cannot listen to God and would love nothing better than to bring his children crashing down.
and you're wondering why you're getting insulted?

you're sitting there being terribly arrogant and intolerant. i somehow doubt you gave a full account of your office story. did you try to tell your coworkers to repent their sinful ways as well? did you say that they were going to burn in hell for having casual sex?

i'm guessing that there's more to your story than you're letting on...

and at any rate, try walking along and being preached to from a streetcorner, try being called a heathen or a heretic, try being told that you're going to some hell for eternity for the mistakes of one lifetime, try being told that you're wrong because a book says so. try being judged and hated by those whose religion commands that they don't judge others and love their neighbours.

also: what is right is not always popular, what is popular is not always right. furthermore, if you have the only truth, and this is why christianity is so popular, then how do you explain the fact that islam is growing faster than christianity? how do you explain that fact that christianity is on a decline?

pagan! woot

Either way, a heretic is hardly an "innocent."
yeah, people who don't agree with you should be killed. damnit, i think you're onto something.

as long as they dont get in the way of my plans for world domination, ill leave them be in their little huts.

Yeah I do that and I'll be fired. They are higher level than me, in fact a guy a couple weeks ago got fired because he had a sore back. Sadly around my area there isn't many jobs so I have to stick it out.
it coudl be worse.

i was sexually harassed at this one job in the summer. i was working through an agency though and the guy who was harassing me worked through the company. since i needed the money, i didn't complain, knowing i would get fired and probably not get work from that agency again.

and also, if the sore back guy obtained the injury on the job, i'm not sure it's legal to fire him for it.

Getting a taste of what happens to us non Christians.

But you are right it is not right for them to make fun of you, as long as you are not harming them it shouldn’t be an issue

But honestly you should try being a non Christian though … (being agnostic is not as bad as being atheist … because if you tell someone your agnostic your average Christian or other religious fellow does not know what that is … doesn’t have the buzz word quality of atheist)
I get called “heathen” once a day or so :) ehhh oh well


As for the “rise” honestly I chock it up to people getting frustrated with Christians trying to run their lives … on top of that familiarity


Its not right but it is what happens sometimes
I am sorry it is happening at your work place


WTF is that supposed to mean? No ones religion should matter as long as no one shits on it.

I concurr with Austrealite and Vittos Ordination's posts. Its retarded in to the nth degree.

I hate seeing anti-religion based posts around here. They're far to frequent and are full of BS well over 99.9999% of the time

I'm agnostic... Totally agnostic (which if some of you didn't know) is still a form of Christianity. It seems like the Gnostics had a better idea of what Jesus would have wanted from his people and that's toleration and a LACK OF BITCHING!
agnosticism isn't a form of christianity.

agnosticism means that one admits that one does not know whether there is a god or not. so unless you're removing god from christianity...

also, christianity is not the only religion whose founder advocated tolerance. see buddhism for a better example... the message more or less got through to the followers over there.

buddhists are pussies. buddhist monks kick ass tho. they can kung fu you, meditate, and set themselves on fire with less than 30 seconds notice!

I read through the first twenty pages of this thread yesterday and found it kind of interesting. But today it seems like the attack of the Uber-Catholics... Jeez!

If anyone is intersted in some skepticism about christianity I recommend The Pilate Project:

http://www.xmission.com/~jburton/index.htm

P.S. Not recommended for true believers - you might end up questioning your faith. ;)

Mary did not have sex EVER.She was impregnated by the HOLY SPIRIT.


:eek: "Sounds like a divine blow job to me." Philip Jose Farmer

The truth is that Cristian church did a lot of things during the MEDIEVAL times (and only a fool would recall facts from the medieval times in order to support an argument) and this was because christianity was struggling for establishment.

Now Some people here are CONFUSING CHRISTIANITY with THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH AND ITS ACTIONS. Ok there were some bad things done by priests and I agree that people moved away from the true faith. BUT listen to this it was Christianity who gave a meaning and moral values to peoples lives. Before Christianity was introduced there was a period of falling moral values, a period were people had bisexual and homosexual orgies and the society was on the decline. Then Cristianity came to add a meaning to peoples lives and it did. We can see that by the number of Christians present today.

Now although I support that every human being has every right to believe in whatever he wants, let's not forget what other religions have done. Muslims declared holy wars on Christians and killed thousands of them because their faith said that they would go to paradise if they do so. Judaism which is a very strong aspect of the israeli society is behind the massacre of palestinians and attempts to control peoples minds. Atheism has led to a decline in our moral values which led to a large number of problems such as AIDS epidemic, CRIME, CHEATING ETC. It is not by chance that heads of large companies who MAKE PROFITS BY HARMING OTHER PEOPLE are on their majority MASONS ( who are responsible for a lot of things including the IRAQ war)

Lastly most of the comments made in this threat against Christianity remind me of the SA and SS propaganta against christianity in a period where euthanasia was used to kill unfortunate people against their will and there was
massive extortion of jews. Although the Vatican didn't do anything to stop them some individuals true christians such as the so called "lion of munster" criticised Hitler and did everything they could to stop him.

I know some thing may sound extreme but they are true.

"Use against heretics the spiritual sword of excommunication, and if this does not prove effective, use the material sword."

[Pope Innocent III (1161-1216)]

"...I do further promise and declare, that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do and to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth, and that I will spare neither sex, age nor condition, and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants' heads against the wall, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race."

[Pope Paul III, 1576]

I hate fundimentalists, because they are bigoted, racism and they bitch about everything.

and you're wondering why you're getting insulted?

you're sitting there being terribly arrogant and intolerant. i somehow doubt you gave a full account of your office story. did you try to tell your coworkers to repent their sinful ways as well? did you say that they were going to burn in hell for having casual sex?

i'm guessing that there's more to your story than you're letting on...

and at any rate, try walking along and being preached to from a streetcorner, try being called a heathen or a heretic, try being told that you're going to some hell for eternity for the mistakes of one lifetime, try being told that you're wrong because a book says so. try being judged and hated by those whose religion commands that they don't judge others and love their neighbours.


I would kindly ask you not to genralise.


also: what is right is not always popular, what is popular is not always right. furthermore, if you have the only truth, and this is why christianity is so popular, then how do you explain the fact that islam is growing faster than christianity? how do you explain that fact that christianity is on a decline?

1) Please cite sources for reason why you believe Christianity is in decline. In Britain at least, organised Christianity is in decline (Church attendence figures going down) but prayer groups and other more informal ideas of Christianity are on the rise.

2) God never promised that Christians would have an easy ride. God never promised that Christians would always prosper and be sucessful or anything like that, so we shouldnt expect to be doing better than anyone else

3) I think the main reason that Islam is doing better than Christianity in terms of growth is that in the major Muslim nations, anyone converting from Islam to another faith can be sentenced to death legally (Fact).

Buddhists are not pussies! If you take Tibetan Buddhists for example, when China invaded Tibet, thousands of Tibetans left for India, walking over the Himalayan Mountain Range, just so they could be with their beloved leader, the Dalai Lama. There is NO one correct religion, in the end all are pretty much the same, trying to reach the same goal, just with different names.
"For as long as space exists
And sentient beings endure
May I too remain,
To dispel the misery of the world."
So ley's have more compassion here, we should all respect each other's religions and beliefs and values, because they are all as valid as one another.

You must be an agnostic.

Pussy.

Buddhists are not pussies! If you take Tibetan Buddhists for example, when China invaded Tibet, thousands of Tibetans left for India, walking over the Himalayan Mountain Range, just so they could be with their beloved leader, the Dalai Lama. There is NO one correct religion, in the end all are pretty much the same, trying to reach the same goal, just with different names.
"For as long as space exists
And sentient beings endure
May I too remain,
To dispel the misery of the world."
So ley's have more compassion here, we should all respect each other's religions and beliefs and values, because they are all as valid as one another.


The Dalai Lama is great. He thinks teh gays = against nature.

cool. isnt he the guy that went out with anna?

Ok. Firstly where did you find those quotes? Because I have to say that their validity is questionable if you take into account the chronical period. ( It might well be propaganta againts Christians, similar propaganta to that made by kkk, nazis, former soviet union and usa)

Secondly even if those quotes are true, you should take into account the chronical period. As I have said Christianity passed through a lot of barrirers and
faced persecution in order for it to become established.When it became established it wanted to keep the true faith.

Thirdly people who remain stuck to the past are Fool because they usually don't take into consideration the conditions. WHY DON'T YOU RECALL THE SAYINGS OF THE PRESENT POPE WHO IS AGAINST WAR, ANTI-JEWISM, AND IS WORKING TOWARDS WORLD PEACE AND THE MERGING OF CATHOLIC AND ORTHODOX CHURCH. WHY DON'T YOU RECALL ALL THESE THINGS. POPE GOT A NOBEL PEACE PRICE FOR HIS ACTIONS, MOTHER TERRESSA ALSO GOT ONE AND SHE IS WIDELY KNOWN FOR HER GOODWILL ACTIONS. WHAT HAVE THE JEW, THE MASON, THE MUSLIM ETC. PRIESTS DONE????
BECAUSE NAPOLEON DID BAD THINGS DOES THIS MEAN THAT ALL FRENCH ARE BAD OR BECAUSE HITLER DID BAD THINGS AND GERMANS SUPPORTED HIM IN ELECTIONS, DOES THIS MEAN THAT ALL GERMANS ARE BAD ETC.

YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE FULL OF LOGICAL ERRORS

if the pope is second to God, why is he so bent and sickly?

who said tha pope is second to god? the pope is like every other human - one day he will die just like the rest of us.

I the pope jewish? Because, you know, every time I see him he has one of those little beanies on.

Please tell me your joking mate! That is the formal accessory of catolic priests.

who said tha pope is second to god? the pope is like every other human - one day he will die just like the rest of us.

uh, catholics!

Please tell me your joking mate! That is the formal accessory of catolic priests.

Well, why is that. It's bad enough that they are a bunch of polytheistic idolators. Are they copying the jews as well?

Well, why is that. It's bad enough that they are a bunch of polytheistic idolators. Are they copying the jews as well?

wooot! pow

1) Ok. Firstly where did you find those quotes? Because I have to say that their validity is questionable if you take into account the chronical period. ( It might well be propaganta againts Christians, similar propaganta to that made by kkk, nazis, former soviet union and usa)

2) Secondly even if those quotes are true, you should take into account the chronical period. As I have said Christianity passed through a lot of barrirers and
faced persecution in order for it to become established.When it became established it wanted to keep the true faith.

3)Thirdly people who remain stuck to the past are Fool because they usually don't take into consideration the conditions. WHY DON'T YOU RECALL THE SAYINGS OF THE PRESENT POPE WHO IS AGAINST WAR, ANTI-JEWISM, AND IS WORKING TOWARDS WORLD PEACE AND THE MERGING OF CATHOLIC AND ORTHODOX CHURCH. WHY DON'T YOU RECALL ALL THESE THINGS. POPE GOT A NOBEL PEACE PRICE FOR HIS ACTIONS, MOTHER TERRESSA ALSO GOT ONE AND SHE IS WIDELY KNOWN FOR HER GOODWILL ACTIONS. WHAT HAVE THE JEW, THE MASON, THE MUSLIM ETC. PRIESTS DONE????
BECAUSE NAPOLEON DID BAD THINGS DOES THIS MEAN THAT ALL FRENCH ARE BAD OR BECAUSE HITLER DID BAD THINGS AND GERMANS SUPPORTED HIM IN ELECTIONS, DOES THIS MEAN THAT ALL GERMANS ARE BAD ETC.

YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE FULL OF LOGICAL ERRORS

1) I got my Pope quotes from The Pilate Project. The Philip Jose Farmer quote I read several years ago.

2) Look, these quotes are from when the church was on top. Thet were not facing persecution at the time.

Chronical period??? I aways thought that was 4:20. :p

3) Wasn't it Santayana who said that those who forget the mistakes ao the past are doomed to repeat them?

OK here's a dumb quote from JPII: "Adultery is in your heart not only when you look with excessive sexual zeal at a woman who is not your wife, but also if you look in the same manner at your wife."

[Pope John Paul II]

and just to show I'm fair: "I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people."

[Mother Teresa, on poverty]

"It is a just retribution for improper sexual misconduct"

[Mother Teresa, on AIDS]

Happy now?

As for Masons... how about George Washington? Thomas Jefferson? John Adams? Ben Franklin, etc.?

Finally, I don't recall making any arguments at all.

who said tha pope is second to god? the pope is like every other human - one day he will die just like the rest of us.
"The popes, like Jesus, are conceived by their mothers through the overshadowing of the Holy Ghost. All popes are a certain species of man-gods, for the purpose of being the better able to conduct the functions of mediator between God and mankind. All powers in Heaven, as well as on earth, are given to them."

[Pope Stephanus V, 9th century]

These guys are infallible, right?

Well, no, agnostic is not Christian - it's just open to all possibilities.

Aren't atheists open to all possibilities as well?
Do "agnostics" honestly think that atheists dogmatically and fervently believe in the nonexistence of the spiritual?

Here's how it goes:
Atheism is a conclusion based on a chain of reasoning and observation. As such, it is tentative, much like even an established scientific theory. Agnosticism makes no sense because all its relevant features are already included in this description of atheism.

But to be on topic,
Perhaps the apparent rise in "Anti-Christianism" is just a counter-reaction to the increased leverage of the American Religious Right. Its effects can be felt abroad and it's widely documented in global media. It's bound to tick people off.

I the pope jewish? Because, you know, every time I see him he has one of those little beanies on.
I prefer the post-hole-digger effect of his formal headgear (miter?)

Lagrange 4: Well said!

A woman must learn in silence and be completely submissive. I do not permit a woman to act as teacher or in any way to have authority over a man; she must be quiet."

[St. Paul instructing Timothy, 1Tim2:11f]

"Adam was deceived by Eve, not Eve by Adam.....it is right that he whom that woman induced to sin should assume the role of guide lest he fall again through feminine instability."

[St. Ambrose; Bishop of Milan, letter 63, 396]

Ah hey what do you say to this, popey?

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

now where does it say anything about the pope in there? :D

Let's get back to what this thread was supposed to be about - the rise of anti-christianism...

Nah. :p

I love the Pope, I love seeing him in his Pope-Mobile, his three feet of bullet proof plexi-glass. That's faith in action folks! You know he's got God on his side."

[Bill Hicks, comedian]

Well, why is that. It's bad enough that they are a bunch of polytheistic idolators. Are they copying the jews as well?

Dude either shut up or learn something before you open your mouth on the subject issue.

The Jews are the biggest Counterfeits known to man. They are acting as a group of people they are not. The Israelites!

And we are not Idol worshippers so get a life or **** off!

i seriously wanna know how a catholic could still argue for the pope after that...

Let's get back to what this thread was supposed to be about - the rise of anti-christianism...

Nah. :p

I love the Pope, I love seeing him in his Pope-Mobile, his three feet of bullet proof plexi-glass. That's faith in action folks! You know he's got God on his side."

[Bill Hicks, comedian]

This Bill Hicks sounds like a wanker. The reason the Pope has bullet proof glass on his car is because many people from other religions hate him.

Dude either shut up or learn something before you open your mouth on the subject issue.

The Jews are the biggest Counterfeits known to man. They are acting as a group of people they are not. The Israelites!

And we are not Idol worshippers so get a life or **** off!

How can you call yourself a catholic and not be on the Jew's side? Unless the catholics have been against the Jews..hmm...but that doesn't seem right, now does it? Oh, but why doesn't praying to all your saintly saints classify as idolotry, when all Christians are saints, but Jesus says that through him is the only way to heaven! Not through a priest, a pope, a saint, or 500 hail marys.
And still now how do you refute 1 Timothy 2:5??? I really wanna know.

This Bill Hicks sounds like a wanker. The reason the Pope has bullet proof glass on his car is because many people from other religions hate him.

That brings up a good question:

Would God stop someone from killing the Pope, or would he allow "free will".









The answer: Trick question, free will doesn't exist.

That brings up a good question:

Would God stop someone from killing the Pope, or would he allow "free will".









The answer: Trick question, free will doesn't exist.

Well aren't you the optimistic one.

How can you call yourself a catholic and not be on the Jew's side? Unless the catholics have been against the Jews..hmm...but that doesn't seem right, now does it? Oh, but why doesn't praying to all your saintly saints classify as idolotry, when all Christians are saints, but Jesus says that through him is the only way to heaven! Not through a priest, a pope, a saint, or 500 hail marys.
And still now how do you refute 1 Timothy 2:5??? I really wanna know.

I'm not Catholic, I don't pray to the Saints...and the Jewish people are not the Israelites.

This Bill Hicks sounds like a wanker. The reason the Pope has bullet proof glass on his car is because many people from other religions hate him.
Hicks no longer wanks. He's dead. Obviously, god didn't like his jokes either.

Hicks no longer wanks. He's dead. Obviously, god didn't like his jokes either.

Ah...I was unaware of his death.

I'm not Catholic, I don't pray to the Saints...and the Jewish people are not the Israelites.

But you replied to Lacadaemon's post talking about catholics, did you just misunderstand? Or did I somehow? And why would the Jews not be Israelites? Were not all the Jews in their tribes established as the nation of Israel thousands of years ago? Doesn't that make all Jews since then a part of the house of Israel? What would you call the current Israelites, and what would you call the current Jews then?

I'm not Catholic, I don't pray to the Saints...and the Jewish people are not the Israelites.
We'll probably both be called anti-semetic, but Austrealite is technically correct. The nation of Isreal was conquered by Assyria and completely assimilated. Gone. (hence the ten lost tribes) The jews of today are from the nation of Judah (Judah and Benjamin)

But you replied to Lacadaemon's post talking about catholics, did you just misunderstand? Or did I somehow? And why would the Jews not be Israelites? Were not all the Jews in their tribes established as the nation of Israel? Doesn't that make all Jews since then a part of the house of Israel? What would you call the current Israelites, and what would you call the current Jews then?

Ah yes I am to the defense of Catholics because I know many who don't worship the Saints but only God.

And the Jews descend from another group altogether. I'll copy some stuff I made on another thread. But what I call the current Jews now would be "Counterfeits"

Noah had 3 sons. Shem, Ham, Japeth. Ham had no sons, Shem ancestor to Abraham, and Japeth had 2 sons. These sons were Magog and Gomer. Magog had no descendants, Gomer had 3 sons. These being Ashkenaz, Ripath and Togarmah. Togarmah and Ashkenaz are the ancestors of the Ashkenazic jews. The Khazars or the "13th Tribe" are descendants of Togarmah and this group of people are found in modern Jewry. But not only them, Isaac had 2 sons Jacob/Israel, and Esau. Esau is the ancestor to the Edomites, who also comprise modern Jewry.

The Khazar Empire was destroyed by Genghis Khan etc, they migrated into and around Poland, they then changed their name back from Khazars back to their family name "Ashkenazic"

But they're still Jews.
I know there are some catholics who...um...are not really catholic... but I was talking about...um...the official catholicism with its doctrines, ya know, the pope, priests, confession, confirmation, all that jazz. Anybody here into actual catholicism? Then we could debate. :D

We'll probably both be called anti-semetic, but Austrealite is technically correct. The nation of Isreal was conquered by Assyria and completely assimilated. Gone. (hence the ten lost tribes) The jews of today are from the nation of Judah (Judah and Benjamin)

Your probably right about the anti-semetic thing, sadly Jews are not Semites except for the ones who descend through Esau.

But your wrong in the fact that the Jews don't descend through Benjamin and Judah.

The word "Jew "doesn't turn up in the Bible until 2nd Kings. And even so the word "Jew" shouldn't even be Jew. It should be "loudean" which means RESIDENT OF JUDEA.

As they were put in Israel by the King of Assyria - see 2nd Kings 17:24- "And the King of Assyria had men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria (formally Israel) instead of the children of Israel..."

That is your modern Sephardic Jews. The Ashkenazic ones I have already dealt with...

But they're still Jews.
I know there are some catholics who...um...are not really catholic... but I was talking about...um...the official catholicism with its doctrines, ya know, the pope, priests, confession, confirmation, all that jazz. Anybody here into actual catholicism? Then we could debate. :D

The word Jew wasn't even in the original text. Had you gone up to King David and said "Are you Jewish" in Hebrew, he would have said no because he wouldn't have heard of the term. When you look through the Bible, basically the word "Jew" should be "loudean"

The word "Jew" is probably the most corrupt word in the modern Scripture, even more so than Gentile.

Ok, God's chosen people. There. Happy? Does that fix it? :D I'm still rarin for a catholic fight here...

I think there is a fallacy in your counterfit-jew argument. Jewishness is a matter of religious affiliation not ethnicity. It would be like you saying you are ethnically christian, wouldn't it? Jews and Arabs tend to be semetic hence, the same race.

Ok, God's chosen people. There. Happy? Does that fix it? :D I'm still rarin for a catholic fight here...

I'll finish up by saying this. "The Jews are not now nor ever will be Gods Chosen People, they come from a different blood line altogether"

And I won't get involved anymore in the Catholic matter, I'll leave that to a Catholic.

I'll finish up by saying this. "The Jews are not now nor ever will be Gods Chosen People, they come from a different blood line altogether"

And I won't get involved anymore in the Catholic matter, I'll leave that to a Catholic.

Well go find one, and quick. :D

I think there is a fallacy in your counterfit-jew argument. Jewishness is a matter of religious affiliation not ethnicity. It would be like you saying you are ethnically christian, wouldn't it? Jews and Arabs tend to be semetic hence, the same race.

The Jews themselves admit that there are 2 distinct races of Jew - the Sephardic and the Ashkenazic. Both as false as eachother. An Israelite can be a Jew (by religion) but a Jew (race) cannot be an Israelite. The Arabs are Shemites (descendants of Shem) the Jews for the most part are not, because they descend through Japeth, not Shem. Some Jews do, these being the Edomites who's ancestor is Esau who was Jacob/Israel's brother and thus some Jews can use the term Semitic when in reference to themselves but the term cannot apply to many modern Jewry.

The question of whether jews are semetic or not should be easily genetically testable. Nevertheless, religion is generally by affilliation not consaguinity.
Yikes, I think I need spell-check

Well go find one, and quick. :D

A Catholic? I don't know any online...

The Israelites MUST be the Jews, because they're fullfilling the prophecy that the houses of Isaac and Ishmael will always be fighting, Isaac being the Jews and Ishmael being the arabs all around going at it with Israel. I'd still rather be fighting a catholic right now, I must tell you.

The Israelites MUST be the Jews, because they're fullfilling the prophecy that the houses of Isaac and Ishmael will always be fighting, Isaac being the Jews and Ishmael being the arabs all around going at it with Israel. I'd still rather be fighting a catholic right now, I must tell you.
Not that I care, but "jews" and arabs didn't fight much in the last 2000 years. Until 1948, that is.

That's why they must be the Jews! :D

The Israelites MUST be the Jews, because they're fullfilling the prophecy that the houses of Isaac and Ishmael will always be fighting, Isaac being the Jews and Ishmael being the arabs all around going at it with Israel. I'd still rather be fighting a catholic right now, I must tell you.

The only reason they are fighting is because the Jews stole the land period. Before 1948 there was no fighting because there was little to no Jews in Palestine as it was known. The Jews kicked many Arabs from their homes and these people became poor refugee's, so of course they would be pissed off. And please don't tell me you don't know of the wars between the Arabs and say...Europe (The Crusades were a fight defending Europe from the Arabs)...

I never said Arabs would only attack Jews...

(The Crusades were a fight defending Europe from the Arabs)...

Surely you mispoke (miswrote?) here? The crusades were not in Europe were they?

They were to take Jerusalem (oh look Jewish) from the muslims! :D But I suspect that greedy pope had other plans in mind...