NationStates Jolt Archive

Every where I go I see it, the filth that these anti Christ spread in an attempt to shut us up, to make us stray from the flock. One such instance is at work; I have been there for about 2 months now and have never had a problem with anyone. Once I got asked the question "did you get a **** on the weekend?" I responded that I was Christian and that it was in my view and faith immoral to have sex out of wedlock. Well needless to say after that I have received nothing but insults about my faith. From questions that can be debated with to ones of pure rubbish (I won't post the questions but many are sick)

What really upsets me is that none of them even have the slightest clue of Christianity but bash it as if they know ever detail.

And it hasn't just been like it at work but every where I have been I have seen it. Has it risen in your area lately?

Now you know what it felt like being a non-christian for the past 1500 years. Btw, you're still in the majority by far, so I'm sure you get *SO* much more abuse than other religions at the moment in the US. Just stfu imo, quit being a whiny little baby. If they harass you to much complain to a supervisor, dunno why you'd bring that to these forums.

Now you know what it felt like being a non-christian for the past 1500 years. Btw, you're still in the majority by far, so I'm sure you get *SO* much more abuse than other religions at the moment in the US. Just stfu imo, quit being a whiny little baby. If they harass you to much complain to a supervisor, dunno why you'd bring that to these forums.

Dunno why you'd type so much but not say anything at all.

That wasn't much, took about 3 seconds to type. If the incredible amount of text has left you baffled, allow me to summarize : STFU and quit whining, Christians don't have it worse than anyone else.

It hasn't risen. It's always been around. Not just against Christianity, either. Every religion that has ever been has always had its detracters. Two things, however, have happened in recent history:

1] The powers that be in Christianity have stopped hanging, beheading, boiling in oil, or torturing people who speak out against Christianity.

2] The advent of mass media has allowed messages to be spread to a broader audience.

It's sort of like crime. A lot of people seem to think crime is on the rise and that the horrible things that happen these days shows a decline in humanity and morality, but what they fail to realize is that before CNN and before the Internet, it required a Charles Manson type thing to get on the news. Nowdays, every time a kitten is kicked it makes international news.

It's not getting worse, it's just that we hear about it more.

Now you know what it felt like being a non-christian for the past 1500 years. Btw, you're still in the majority by far, so I'm sure you get *SO* much more abuse than other religions at the moment in the US. Just stfu imo, quit being a whiny little baby. If they harass you to much complain to a supervisor, dunno why you'd bring that to these forums.

Alas we are the majority but that is only because we hold to the one true faith. We do not faulter nor will we fail God. And don't be childish to come here and tell me to "STFU" if you didn't want to hear what I had to say, you shouldn't have opened the thread. The point I am making is that it is now "alright" to abuse Christians but if you did it to any other faith it wouldn't be acceptable. And the fact we are the majority just means we are under attack by more people who cannot listen to God and would love nothing better than to bring his children crashing down.

That wasn't much, took about 3 seconds to type. If the incredible amount of text has left you baffled, allow me to summarize : STFU and quit whining, Christians don't have it worse than anyone else.

How about this, if you are going to post, post a view with valid points, don't tell people to shut the fuck up and quit whining.

Every where I go I see it, the filth that these anti Christ spread in an attempt to shut us up, to make us stray from the flock. One such instance is at work; I have been there for about 2 months now and have never had a problem with anyone. Once I got asked the question "did you get a **** on the weekend?" I responded that I was Christian and that it was in my view and faith immoral to have sex out of wedlock. Well needless to say after that I have received nothing but insults about my faith. From questions that can be debated with to ones of pure rubbish (I won't post the questions but many are sick)

What really upsets me is that none of them even have the slightest clue of Christianity but bash it as if they know ever detail.

And it hasn't just been like it at work but every where I have been I have seen it. Has it risen in your area lately?
Getting a taste of what happens to us non Christians.

But you are right it is not right for them to make fun of you, as long as you are not harming them it shouldn’t be an issue

But honestly you should try being a non Christian though … (being agnostic is not as bad as being atheist … because if you tell someone your agnostic your average Christian or other religious fellow does not know what that is … doesn’t have the buzz word quality of atheist)
I get called “heathen” once a day or so :) ehhh oh well


As for the “rise” honestly I chock it up to people getting frustrated with Christians trying to run their lives … on top of that familiarity


Its not right but it is what happens sometimes
I am sorry it is happening at your work place

Alas we are the majority but that is only because we hold to the one true faith. We do not faulter nor will we fail God. And don't be childish to come here and tell me to "STFU" if you didn't want to hear what I had to say, you shouldn't have opened the thread. The point I am making is that it is now "alright" to abuse Christians but if you did it to any other faith it wouldn't be acceptable. And the fact we are the majority just means we are under attack by more people who cannot listen to God and would love nothing better than to bring his children crashing down.
Interesting.

I love living in Britain.

I'm not against Christianity, i'm against this particular form of Christianity:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=381230

As the upsurge in fundamentalist forms of Christianity continues, so will its opposition.

And by the way, your work colleages have no right to treat you that way because of your faith, so use your rights and file a complaint against them.

The point I am making is that it is now "alright" to abuse Christians but if you did it to any other faith it wouldn't be acceptable. And the fact we are the majority just means we are under attack by more people who cannot listen to God and would love nothing better than to bring his children crashing down.
Right. Of course, the fact that it isn't acceptable against any other faith never stopped you did it? Twice i've reported you for flaming, mostly on religious comments. Also, people always pick on the smallest, in todays world that is Judaism.

Alas we are the majority but that is only because we hold to the one true faith. We do not faulter nor will we fail God.

If you said stupid ass things like this irl to me I'd harrass you too.

And how about I post whatever I want? He has the right to come here spouting inane trash, and I have the right to tell him that he's a moron.

It hasn't risen. It's always been around. Not just against Christianity, either. Every religion that has ever been has always had its detracters. Two things, however, have happened in recent history:

1] The powers that be in Christianity have stopped hanging, beheading, boiling in oil, or torturing people who speak out against Christianity.

2] The advent of mass media has allowed messages to be spread to a broader audience.

It's sort of like crime. A lot of people seem to think crime is on the rise and that the horrible things that happen these days shows a decline in humanity and morality, but what they fail to realize is that before CNN and before the Internet, it required a Charles Manson type thing to get on the news. Nowdays, every time a kitten is kicked it makes international news.

It's not getting worse, it's just that we hear about it more.

No true Christian ever did those crimes you mentioned. Remember it was US who were used as lamps by the Romans during the early years. Since then as the true Israelites were found we have come under a new attack. One that does more damange than one would think. We are called out to answer crimes to which we are not quilty, if your a Christian your suddenly "bad" or a "Fool"

Alas we are the majority but that is only because we hold to the one true faith. We do not faulter nor will we fail God. And don't be childish to come here and tell me to "STFU" if you didn't want to hear what I had to say, you shouldn't have opened the thread. The point I am making is that it is now "alright" to abuse Christians but if you did it to any other faith it wouldn't be acceptable. And the fact we are the majority just means we are under attack by more people who cannot listen to God and would love nothing better than to bring his children crashing down.

That is an arrogant thing to say. I know people of other religions who are probably of truer faith than you. And you know what, it is allowed to dislike christianity, it has always been allowed in this country. We have finally reached an enlightment, however, where you are not persecuted for speaking out against christianity and people are taking advantage of it.

Interesting.

Indeed.

For some reason I thought it was part of Christianity to not be accepted by the masses. If you have a problem with people questioning your faith, maybe your faith is not that strong.

I gladly allow criticism.

We do not faulter nor will we fail God.

Pedophile priests, mass suicide cults (Jim Jones, et al), Evangelists and their hookers (I have sinned against you *tears*), massive cathedrals with plenty of pomp and gold established right next to some of the poorest neighborhoods (showing off?), missionaries in India trying so hard to steal children away from their heathen Hindu parents that laws had to be made in India against conversion ...

Yeah ... way to not fail God.

Something about eyes and motes and beams comes to mind.

If you said stupid ass things like this irl to me I'd harrass you too.

And how about I post whatever I want? He has the right to come here spouting inane trash, and I have the right to tell him that he's a moron.

Yeah, after he started talking about his "one true faith", I say release the dogs.

Have at him, I will keep my mouth shut from now on.

That wasn't much, took about 3 seconds to type. If the incredible amount of text has left you baffled, allow me to summarize : STFU and quit whining, Christians don't have it worse than anyone else.which is more thought than you placed on the point Austrealite was making. What you don't understand is this. if Austrealite said he was a Jew, or a Muslim, or Hindu... he wouldn't get the harrasement he's getting now. in fact if he did, he could sue the company for Harrasement, Discrimination, and emotional Distress and would win. but as a Christian, your view that you so plainly demonstrated, is what every Christian faces... thus any legal action is harder, if not impossible. After all, we are part of the majority so why should we whine... be silent... take the shots that ingorant people like yourself throw... If you truly believe that Christians don't have it any worse than anyone else, you wouldn't have typed what you did. your tone only bellies the prejudiuce that Christians face every day.

Right. Of course, the fact that it isn't acceptable against any other faith never stopped you did it? Twice i've reported you for flaming, mostly on religious comments. Also, people always pick on the smallest, in todays world that is Judaism.

Rubbish, while Judaism might recieve some doses of attacks, nothing on the level of Christianity (faith here, not races), I have seen and heard of people of all faiths, races etc praising themselves that they desecrate Churches, Smash down tombs of Christians...because of their faith...

Pedophile priests, mass suicide cults (Jim Jones, et al), Evangelists and their hookers (I have sinned against you *tears*), massive cathedrals with plenty of pomp and gold established right next to some of the poorest neighborhoods (showing off?), missionaries in India trying so hard to steal children away from their heathen Hindu parents that laws had to be made in India against conversion ...

Yeah ... way to not fail God.

Something about eyes and motes and beams comes to mind.

What are you talking about?


Those weren't true christians. :rolleyes:

which is more thought than you placed on the point Austrealite was making. What you don't understand is this. if Austrealite said he was a Jew, or a Muslim, or Hindu... he wouldn't get the harrasement he's getting now. in fact if he did, he could sue the company for Harrasement, Discrimination, and emotional Distress and would win. but as a Christian, your view that you so plainly demonstrated, is what every Christian faces... thus any legal action is harder, if not impossible. After all, we are part of the majority so why should we whine... be silent... take the shots that ingorant people like yourself throw... If you truly believe that Christians don't have it any worse than anyone else, you wouldn't have typed what you did. your tone only bellies the prejudiuce that Christians face every day.
No, the reason he's getting the hassle he's getting now is because he started warbling on about "the one true faith".

No true Christian ever did those crimes you mentioned. Remember it was US who were used as lamps by the Romans during the early years. Since then as the true Israelites were found we have come under a new attack. One that does more damange than one would think. We are called out to answer crimes to which we are not quilty, if your a Christian your suddenly "bad" or a "Fool"
Lol you were persecuted at inception yes

Then you turned around and did it to other people … ;) be honest to yourself and don’t ignore the past

No true Christian ever did those crimes you mentioned. Remember it was US who were used as lamps by the Romans during the early years. Since then as the true Israelites were found we have come under a new attack. One that does more damange than one would think. We are called out to answer crimes to which we are not quilty, if your a Christian your suddenly "bad" or a "Fool" Right, no true Christian did. But since they professed to be Christians, their acts were accepted as Christian acts. Tar and brush.

Develop a thicker skin! I go to a school as a Christian - and I spent most Maths lessons last year arguing theology with my friend (we were onto Aztec prophets before we were separated). If they keep bashing you, bash them back! Retaliate! Don't just moan!

Jesus did warn against this sort of thing, you know. You can't complain.

in fact if he did, he could sue the company for Harrasement, Discrimination, and emotional Distress and would win. but as a Christian, your view that you so plainly demonstrated, is what every Christian faces... thus any legal action is harder, if not impossible.

Untrue. Any discrimination on religious grounds by law is treated the same. At the very least, he can file a complaint and get the company to take action.

Getting a taste of what happens to us non Christians.

But you are right it is not right for them to make fun of you, as long as you are not harming them it shouldn’t be an issue

But honestly you should try being a non Christian though … (being agnostic is not as bad as being atheist … because if you tell someone your agnostic your average Christian or other religious fellow does not know what that is … doesn’t have the buzz word quality of atheist)
I get called “heathen” once a day or so :) ehhh oh well


As for the “rise” honestly I chock it up to people getting frustrated with Christians trying to run their lives … on top of that familiarity


Its not right but it is what happens sometimes
I am sorry it is happening at your work place

I will not convert away from God, never will I turn my back. I don't care what my work "mates" say, the abuse they give me is not going to drag me from God for I have walked that path before and it was dark.

Rubbish, while Judaism might recieve some doses of attacks, nothing on the level of Christianity (faith here, not races), I have seen and heard of people of all faiths, races etc praising themselves that they desecrate Churches, Smash down tombs of Christians...because of their faith...
I think we have a troll.

Alas we are the majority but that is only because we hold to the one true faith. We do not faulter nor will we fail God. And don't be childish to come here and tell me to "STFU" if you didn't want to hear what I had to say, you shouldn't have opened the thread. The point I am making is that it is now "alright" to abuse Christians but if you did it to any other faith it wouldn't be acceptable. And the fact we are the majority just means we are under attack by more people who cannot listen to God and would love nothing better than to bring his children crashing down.

You see that "One true faith" stuff is why people don't like you. If you were a christian and just followed your religion I doubt you would see any "persecution" what so ever.

But you don't.

You come out swinging with your views, decrying the immorality of the world and extolling your unfathomable christian virtue. Because obviously your religion is right, and so you need to let everyone else know it. Then someone questions your faith, or belittles your ideals. Oh woe is me! See the kind of persecution the righteous must endure!

If you're going to express a belief, no matter what it is, someone is going to disagree. The only difference is this case is that you take this disagreement and turn it into some kind of condemnation of christianity. Grow the fuck up. So someone doesn't like what you have to say, big deal.

I'm an atheist currently going to a Catholic college, and I don't get shit on because of it. Want to know why? I don't go around announcing it to the world, and claiming moral superiority. If someone asks, or it comes up in conversation I won't hesitate to tell them, but I don't make a big deal about it.

Alas we are the majority but that is only because we hold to the one true faith.
I'd say people that discriminate against anyone for any reason (aside from the obvious, like violent criminals) are dickweeds.
But your first sentence alone should tell you why people think lowly of you and other bible thumpers.
You're arrogant, presumptuous and elitist.
Besides, ever read the line about throwing your beliefs around in public and praying in the closet?
Which do you assume Jesus respects more?
Think again.

You might have a point, if he was anything BUT the majority I might care more. Slightly. But the fact that he claims "anti-christianity" is on the rise is so blatantly false that it deserves to be flamed. Now true, all my comments are tempered by my own personal experience, but any Christian claiming to be oppressed in the United States is more than likely blowing something completely out of proportion.

And the point still remains, why whine about your religious oppression in an online forum. If it's really a problem, do something.

Rubbish, while Judaism might recieve some doses of attacks, nothing on the level of Christianity (faith here, not races), I have seen and heard of people of all faiths, races etc praising themselves that they desecrate Churches, Smash down tombs of Christians...because of their faith... Nazis smash Jewish synagogues! What about the HOLOCAUST? That was a pretty "dose" of attacks?

As I've said before: Jesus warned of this. Why don't you do something along the lines of throwing your own arguments back at them?

Right, no true Christian did. But since they professed to be Christians, their acts were accepted as Christian acts. Tar and brush.

Develop a thicker skin! I go to a school as a Christian - and I spent most Maths lessons last year arguing theology with my friend (we were onto Aztec prophets before we were separated). If they keep bashing you, bash them back! Retaliate! Don't just moan!

Jesus did warn against this sort of thing, you know. You can't complain.
But they believed they were true Christians … and the pope agreed with them.

The bible is so ambiguous that they chose to interpret it one way and you another way.

They just emphasized the vengeful parts … you the forgiving parts


Personally I like your version better but it doesn’t make theirs any less a “Christian” act just because it does not fit in with your current perception of the faith

I will not convert away from God, never will I turn my back. I don't care what my work "mates" say, the abuse they give me is not going to drag me from God for I have walked that path before and it was dark.

Avoid your statesment about you having the 'one true faith' and they may relinquish a bit.

I'm not against Christianity, i'm against this particular form of Christianity:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=381230

As the upsurge in fundamentalist forms of Christianity continues, so will its opposition.

And by the way, your work colleages have no right to treat you that way because of your faith, so use your rights and file a complaint against them.

Yeah I do that and I'll be fired. They are higher level than me, in fact a guy a couple weeks ago got fired because he had a sore back. Sadly around my area there isn't many jobs so I have to stick it out.

I will not convert away from God, never will I turn my back. I don't care what my work "mates" say, the abuse they give me is not going to drag me from God for I have walked that path before and it was dark.
Seems well lit in here to me :p

No true Christian ever did those crimes you mentioned.

That's a cop-out and is why Christianity comes under fire. It takes no personal responsibility. You take 1500 years of oppression, greed, torture, genocide, ethnic cleansing, belittlement of other peoples, forced conversions, cultural theft, and crimes against humanity and accept no culpability. You simply cop-out by saying, "Oh those weren't true Christians".

From what I can tell, the logical conclusion, then, is that there have never been any true Christians. Peter, the rock upon which Jesus said he would build his church, was a slave mongering, greedy, womanizing, lieing, and generally very rude person. Was Peter not a "true Christian"?

How about Paul of Tarsus, who taught that wives are to be subjugate to their husbands (Corinthians)?

Who, then, are the "true" Christians?

I think we have a troll.
Torching Witches, you noticed that too?

Right, no true Christian did. But since they professed to be Christians, their acts were accepted as Christian acts. Tar and brush.

Develop a thicker skin! I go to a school as a Christian - and I spent most Maths lessons last year arguing theology with my friend (we were onto Aztec prophets before we were separated). If they keep bashing you, bash them back! Retaliate! Don't just moan!

Jesus did warn against this sort of thing, you know. You can't complain.

Their acts were not Christian acts for they followed not Gods word!

Alas we are the majority but that is only because we hold to the one true faith. We do not faulter nor will we fail God.

By saying which, you're discriminating against people of other religions. Holier than thou indeed.

That's a cop-out and is why Christianity comes under fire. It takes no personal responsibility. You take 1500 years of oppression, greed, torture, genocide, ethnic cleansing, belittlement of other peoples, forced conversions, cultural theft, and crimes against humanity and accept no culpability. You simply cop-out by saying, "Oh those weren't true Christians".

From what I can tell, the logical conclusion, then, is that there have never been any true Christians. Peter, the rock upon which Jesus said he would build his church, was a slave mongering, greedy, womanizing, lieing, and generally very rude person. Was Peter not a "true Christian"?

How about Paul of Tarsus, who taught that wives are to be subjugate to their husbands (Corinthians)?

Who, then, are the "true" Christians?


I wouldn’t make bible references … lol probably has not read it ;) or not thoroughly

The archaic language makes you look like a freaking moron. Just FYI.

But they believed they were true Christians … and the pope agreed with them.

The bible is so ambiguous that they chose to interpret it one way and you another way.

They just emphasized the vengeful parts … you the forgiving parts


Personally I like your version better but it doesn’t make theirs any less a “Christian” act just because it does not fit in with your current perception of the faith If you take everything that Jesus said and act upon it, it's naturally forgiving. Jesus emphasised forgiveness and mercy himself. He also said that hypocrisy was bad. There has been a lot of eye-mote-beam in Christian history.

Their acts were not Christian acts for they followed not Gods word!
They said they followed God's word, who are you to disagree?

Their acts were not Christian acts for they followed not Gods word!
You can obviously spell, so my next lesson is in order of words.

"Their acts were not Christian acts for they followed not Gods word!"
becomes:
"Their acts weren't Christian acts because they didn't follow G-Ds word!"

You might have a point, if he was anything BUT the majority I might care more. Slightly. But the fact that he claims "anti-christianity" is on the rise is so blatantly false that it deserves to be flamed. Now true, all my comments are tempered by my own personal experience, but any Christian claiming to be oppressed in the United States is more than likely blowing something completely out of proportion.

And the point still remains, why whine about your religious oppression in an online forum. If it's really a problem, do something.

1) I don't live in the US
2) Whether you accept it or not, it is on the rise. People just ignore it as more "Christian Rubbish"
3) A lot of Religious stuff/Moral stuff etc is placed on these forums, am I forbidden to post on them?

The archaic language makes you look like a freaking moron. Just FYI.
I agree. I don't know what point he's trying to get across (maybe he's really 2000 years old?) but he's failing.

Yeah I do that and I'll be fired. They are higher level than me, in fact a guy a couple weeks ago got fired because he had a sore back. Sadly around my area there isn't many jobs so I have to stick it out.

All I can suggest is that you either join or contact the relevant union and ask them for advice. It can't hurt, because legally you are entitled to keep that information secret.

If unwilling to do that, perhaps instead contact the Human Rights and Equal Employment Opportunity Commission for advice and express your concerns to them as well. http://www.hreoc.gov.au/

1) I don't live in the US
2) Whether you accept it or not, it is on the rise. People just ignore it as more "Christian Rubbish"
3) A lot of Religious stuff/Moral stuff etc is placed on these forums, am I forbidden to post on them?

When you claim people laughing at what you say is "religious persecution" then yes, people ignore you.

There is also a difference between making a point about religion or morality and whining about it.

By saying which, you're discriminating against people other religions. Holier than thou indeed.

I never said I was "Holier" than anyone. I believe in God, I believe my faith is right but what I don't do is bash anyone for their faith. For instance there is a Muslim man at work who I am very good friends with. We discuss our chosen religions and we both believe our own to be right. But we never attack each other. He is one of the best guys I have ever known and I am honnored to be his friend.

which is more thought than you placed on the point Austrealite was making. What you don't understand is this. if Austrealite said he was a Jew, or a Muslim, or Hindu... he wouldn't get the harrasement he's getting now. in fact if he did, he could sue the company for Harrasement, Discrimination, and emotional Distress and would win. but as a Christian, your view that you so plainly demonstrated, is what every Christian faces... thus any legal action is harder, if not impossible. After all, we are part of the majority so why should we whine... be silent... take the shots that ingorant people like yourself throw... If you truly believe that Christians don't have it any worse than anyone else, you wouldn't have typed what you did. your tone only bellies the prejudiuce that Christians face every day.
Oh yeah? And what about Atheists? They don't have a chance. Christians don't hold a can of beans compared to the oppression that Atheists get.

If you take everything that Jesus said and act upon it, it's naturally forgiving. Jesus emphasised forgiveness and mercy himself. He also said that hypocrisy was bad. There has been a lot of eye-mote-beam in Christian history.
If people took what only Jesus said homosexuality wouldent be a sin :p
lol

Torching Witches, you noticed that too?
Yes, I'm unbelievably perceptive. The "one true faith" statement drew people in, and then the bit that said "Judaism have received some doses of prejudice" was flamebaiting of the highest order. I'm started to respect this guy, he's very skillful.

Oh yeah? And what about Atheists? They don't have a chance. Christians don't hold a can of beans compared to the oppression that Atheists get.

Lets please not turn this into a "I'm more persecuted then you" thing.

Well no more than it already is. :rolleyes:

Oh yeah? And what about Atheists? They don't have a chance. Christians don't hold a can of beans compared to the oppression that Atheists get.
Yes, the poor atheists. Where do you live that atheists get oppressed?

Austrealite, did you ever think that the persecution might be a way to test and thus improve your faith in God?

Oh yeah? And what about Atheists? They don't have a chance. Christians don't hold a can of beans compared to the oppression that Atheists get.
Lol I am agnostic and catch just the leftover hate and it is bad enough :) (usually cause they cant tell the two apart … don’t bother to learn … we are all heretics anyways so why bother learning about us)

If you take everything that Jesus said and act upon it, it's naturally forgiving. Jesus emphasised forgiveness and mercy himself. He also said that hypocrisy was bad. There has been a lot of eye-mote-beam in Christian history.

Yes, I have found that some Christian's have completely ignored the teachings of Jesus in the Gospel in favor for the letters in the back of the bible, Corintians, Eccleciastes, Romans, etc.

I had a discussion with a baptist preacher who used several verses out of the latter texts to show that I *must* believe overtly in christ to enter heaven, while I said that God could differentiate based on behavior.

I pointed out the scripture where Jesus said, "When I was sick, you took me in, when I was hungry you fed me", Matthew 25, I think, somewhere around there. In that scripture Jesus says he will take the righteous to heaven, and clearly classifies the righteous as those who helped the needy, yet it said nothing about faith. He flat out ignored it, and pretty much said that you have to have faith to perform those things and followed it with another scripture from Romans.

All I can suggest is that you either join or contact the relevant union and ask them for advice. It can't hurt, because legally you are entitled to keep that information secret.

If unwilling to do that, perhaps instead contact the Human Rights and Equal Employment Opportunity Commission for advice and express your concerns to them as well. http://www.hreoc.gov.au/

Thank you for the link, I'll check it out. We are on holidays right now...

That is an arrogant thing to say. I know people of other religions who are probably of truer faith than you. And you know what, it is allowed to dislike christianity, it has always been allowed in this country]. We have finally reached an enlightment, however, where you are not persecuted for speaking out against christianity and people are taking advantage of it. See, that is what he is talking about... do you know that it is STILL AGAINST THE LAW TO DISCRIMINATE someone baised on their Race, Color, CREED, RELIGION and National Origin? thank you for proving Austrealite right.

Besides, did you know that those who wrote the Declaration of Independance as well as the CONSTITUTION were all (but two) Reverends and Preachers... they started each Congressional Session with Prayer. The Constitution was baised off of the BIBLE.

Lol I am agnostic and catch just the leftover hate and it is bad enough :) (usually cause they cant tell the two apart … don’t bother to learn … we are all heretics anyways so why bother learning about us)

But the bonds between atheists and agnostics are much stronger, I always love meeting an agnostic or atheist. I rarely openly discuss my religion, for obvious reasons that the original poster doesn't understand, and meeting one is a rare occasion.

When you claim people laughing at what you say is "religious persecution" then yes, people ignore you.

There is also a difference between making a point about religion or morality and whining about it.

It isn't simply "laughing" - for instance I was asked disgusting and degrading questions like "What would God think of shaving your ****" - I have to work around this kind of thing. Another last week came up rather quickly from a guy who just found out about my faith from another worker "All you CHRISTIANS talk ****en ****"

Once again I have to work around it, I can't avoid it. I will not quit because they have then won.

I never said I was "Holier" than anyone. I believe in God, I believe my faith is right but what I don't do is bash anyone for their faith. For instance there is a Muslim man at work who I am very good friends with. We discuss our chosen religions and we both believe our own to be right. But we never attack each other. He is one of the best guys I have ever known and I am honnored to be his friend.

Alas we are the majority but that is only because we hold to the one true faith. We do not faulter nor will we fail God.

OK, here's the deal. By saying you're Christian it's assumed that you trust in your faith. It's a given.

However, to say everyone else's religion isn't as good as yours (they apparently don't follow a true faith), you're exhibiting arrogance of religion. As a result, you are bashing the faiths of every non-Christian who reads this.

It isn't simply "laughing" - for instance I was asked disgusting and degrading questions like "What would God think of shaving your ****" - I have to work around this kind of thing. Another last week came up rather quickly from a guy who just found out about my faith from another worker "All you CHRISTIANS talk ****en ****"

Once again I have to work around it, I can't avoid it. I will not quit because they have then won.
Then why don't you just crack jokes back at them?

See, that is what he is talking about... do you know that it is STILL AGAINST THE LAW TO DISCRIMINATE someone baised on their Race, Color, CREED, RELIGION and National Origin? thank you for proving Austrealite right.

Besides, did you know that those who wrote the Declaration of Independance as well as the CONSTITUTION were all (but two) Reverends and Preachers... they started each Congressional Session with Prayer. The Constitution was baised off of the BIBLE.

And? What's your point? They also believed that blacks and women were inferior. I suppose we should reinstate slavery then, since that's the way they wanted things.

But the bonds between atheists and agnostics are much stronger, I always love meeting an agnostic or atheist. I rarely openly discuss my religion, for obvious reasons that the original poster doesn't understand, and meeting one is a rare occasion.
Well I am one :) lol :fluffle: :fluffle:

Then why don't you just crack jokes back at them?
In some places that can get you fired. I would but it could be understood why someone might not want to.

Then why don't you just crack jokes back at them?
My personal choice (when confronted by religious folks like this) is to try to :fluffle: them :)

But the bonds between atheists and agnostics are much stronger, I always love meeting an agnostic or atheist. I rarely openly discuss my religion, for obvious reasons that the original poster doesn't understand, and meeting one is a rare occasion.
Meh, just come to Britain.

In some places that can get you fired. I would but it could be understood why someone might not want to.
No, I'm talking self-deprecating. If you can find yourself amusing, then you get a lot more respect from people.

See, that is what he is talking about... do you know that it is STILL AGAINST THE LAW TO DISCRIMINATE someone baised on their Race, Color, CREED, RELIGION and National Origin? thank you for proving Austrealite right.

Besides, did you know that those who wrote the Declaration of Independance as well as the CONSTITUTION were all (but two) Reverends and Preachers... they started each Congressional Session with Prayer. The Constitution was baised off of the BIBLE.

I never said anything about Christians, I just said the religion. I also said dislike, I never said act on the dislike. You are free to dislike gays, blacks, Jews, christians. You are free to say that you dislike them as well. You are free to get offended at those statements, but nobody is allowed to act upon them.

Thomas Jefferson was deist with very conflicting views with traditional christianity, and I believe he was the principle author of the Declaration of Independance.

Nowhere in the constitution is God, Jesus, Christianity, or the Bible mentioned. It was not based on the Bible.

Thank you for the link, I'll check it out. We are on holidays right now...

A pleasure :)

It isn't simply "laughing" - for instance I was asked disgusting and degrading questions like "What would God think of shaving your ****" - I have to work around this kind of thing. Another last week came up rather quickly from a guy who just found out about my faith from another worker "All you CHRISTIANS talk ****en ****"

Once again I have to work around it, I can't avoid it. I will not quit because they have then won.

I hate to sound like a jerk by pushing this point, but I honestly don't know what you meant in those insults. I mean I know plenty of obscenities, but I honestly can't make anything fit the last one.

And yes you can sue them for harrasment based on religious grounds, and by your side of the story it sounds like you have a very good case. Granted the abuse is well documented. You could probably call a lawyer and threaten them into submission pretty easily.

what I don't do is bash anyone for their faith.
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7452817&postcount=173
I don't bash Jews, but Judaism is a fake religion:rolleyes:

I hate to sound like a jerk by pushing this point, but I honestly don't know what you meant in those insults. I mean I know plenty of obscenities, but I honestly can't make anything fit the last one.

And yes you can sue them for harrasment based on religious grounds, and by your side of the story it sounds like you have a very good case. Granted the abuse is well documented. You could probably call a lawyer and threaten them into submission pretty easily.
I believe the first one was:

What would God think of shaving your dick?

Oh yeah? And what about Atheists? They don't have a chance. Christians don't hold a can of beans compared to the oppression that Atheists get.what oppression... oh yea, the Under God thing... also the "In God we Trust." Atheists don't believe in a higher power right? they don't believe in any form of God or spiritual thing right? so if you were true Athiest... then "In God We Trust" should be nothing but 4 little words. same as "Under God" 2 words that are harmless. but if you are afraid of those 6 words... then maybe you believe after all and thus, not Athiests. After all, to true Atheists, those words are there to make the crazy people calm so it don't matter to you... in fact, True athiest will skip that part of the pledge, mouthing it and not saying it, because it doesn't pertain to them. Let's see... lawsuit by an Athiest for being harrased at work versus the same by a christian... nope, I still see the Athiest winning while the Christian is ridiculed.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7452817&postcount=173
I don't bash Jews, but Judaism is a fake religion:rolleyes:
See, what did I say? The wonderful thing about trolls is that you can talk about them in the same thread during the trolling process. Only a handful of people notice because they're too busy getting offended by the troll. Marvellous work.

I can't understand why after I made this topic everyone came in and started giving me heaps about it. If I were Jewish, or Muslim, or Hindu etc and I made this topic what would you all have said? There are close to the same or more Muslims to Christians in the world yet you would not come in and attack me about it.

I brought up what I believe to be an issue that must be addressed. You have come here and only strenghtened my view of it. Why can a Christian be given abuse and a Muslim not? Am I any different to a Muslim down the street? You say we Christians have gone off and killed non Christians in the past, but you don't know the fact that these killers were not Christians nor will they ever be.

To those people who say "give it back" I won't do that because I have only just started there and am on probation. I do my work as best I can but I get upset with the insults I get because of my faith. I will not hide it nor deny it. I am Christian and I will be forever.

I believe the first one was:

What would God think of shaving your dick?

Yeah I got that one, but the second one is a brain teaser.

I never said anything about Christians, I just said the religion. I also said dislike, I never said act on the dislike. You are free to dislike gays, blacks, Jews, christians. You are free to say that you dislike them as well. You are free to get offended at those statements, but nobody is allowed to act upon them.

Thomas Jefferson was deist with very conflicting views with traditional christianity, and I believe he was the principle author of the Declaration of Independance.

Nowhere in the constitution is God, Jesus, Christianity, or the Bible mentioned. It was not based on the Bible.Disliking is one thing. Acting on the Dislike to create a hostile enviornment is another.

and NO WHERE in the Constitution is it mentioned about Separation of Church and State either. yet many a court battle was won using that phrase.

Yeah I got that one, but the second one is a brain teaser.
I believe it was colloquial-speak, me old mucker, such as:

You talk fucken shit

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7452817&postcount=173
I don't bash Jews, but Judaism is a fake religion:rolleyes:


For thoes that are too lazy here is what is in the linky (bad enough to quote)



Idiot!, you are a ****en wanker you ****wit! Of course, all those Palestinian children are terrorist (SO MUCH ****EN SARCASM)

I hope you die you peice of ****, I hope you burn in hell, for supporting this fake nation Israel you will!

On that note, I'd trust a Palestinian before an Israel and an Arab before a Jew, at least they respect the only true Messiah!


Um all I got to say is practice what you preach ... you don’t want to be made fun of by intolerant pricks picking on your religion don’t do the same to others

I can't understand why after I made this topic everyone came in and started giving me heaps about it. If I were Jewish, or Muslim, or Hindu etc and I made this topic what would you all have said? There are close to the same or more Muslims to Christians in the world yet you would not come in and attack me about it.

I brought up what I believe to be an issue that must be addressed. You have come here and only strenghtened my view of it. Why can a Christian be given abuse and a Muslim not? Am I any different to a Muslim down the street? You say we Christians have gone off and killed non Christians in the past, but you don't know the fact that these killers were not Christians nor will they ever be.

To those people who say "give it back" I won't do that because I have only just started there and am on probation. I do my work as best I can but I get upset with the insults I get because of my faith. I will not hide it nor deny it. I am Christian and I will be forever.

Create a new screename, wait a few months and make a similar thread with a different stated religion. See what happens. Don't go on and on about what we WOULD do. You have no idea what anyone would do.

what oppression... oh yea, the Under God thing... also the "In God we Trust." Atheists don't believe in a higher power right? they don't believe in any form of God or spiritual thing right? so if you were true Athiest... then "In God We Trust" should be nothing but 4 little words. same as "Under God" 2 words that are harmless. but if you are afraid of those 6 words... then maybe you believe after all and thus, not Athiests. After all, to true Atheists, those words are there to make the crazy people calm so it don't matter to you... in fact, True athiest will skip that part of the pledge, mouthing it and not saying it, because it doesn't pertain to them. Let's see... lawsuit by an Athiest for being harrased at work versus the same by a christian... nope, I still see the Athiest winning while the Christian is ridiculed.

That is shit.

The government cannot endorse religion, first off, that is settled.

Secondly, they are more than just four words. Atheists feel just as strongly about their beliefs as you, so don't trivialize them by saying we shouldn't care if someone forces us to recognize God.

The fact is, that since you find his existence to be a given, they should be trivial to you. You do NOT need a government endorsement to prove that God exists. If you want one, add it.

what oppression... oh yea, the Under God thing... also the "In God we Trust." Atheists don't believe in a higher power right? they don't believe in any form of God or spiritual thing right? so if you were true Athiest... then "In God We Trust" should be nothing but 4 little words. same as "Under God" 2 words that are harmless. but if you are afraid of those 6 words... then maybe you believe after all and thus, not Athiests. After all, to true Atheists, those words are there to make the crazy people calm so it don't matter to you... in fact, True athiest will skip that part of the pledge, mouthing it and not saying it, because it doesn't pertain to them. Let's see... lawsuit by an Athiest for being harrased at work versus the same by a christian... nope, I still see the Athiest winning while the Christian is ridiculed.
No, I mean the people who insist on trying to convert me and save my soul, no matter how many times I've told them to leave me alone. I mean people telling me that I'm going to burn in hell. Tell me, which is more offensive: 1) What would God think of shaving your penis? 2) You're going to burn in hell.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7452817&postcount=173
I don't bash Jews, but Judaism is a fake religion:rolleyes:

I admit I lost my cool there and if you bothered to read after that you would notice I apologized. But I never called Judaism a "Fake" religion. I said the modern state of Israel was a "fake" nation but that is different.

Create a new screename, wait a few months and make a similar thread with a different stated religion. See what happens. Don't go on and on about what we WOULD do. You have no idea what anyone would do.
Actually, if you're trolling generally, this is a good technique. Baiting the same flame with the same screenname was his only fault.

I believe it was colloquial-speak, me old mucker, such as:

You talk fucken shit
lol those crazy aussies, what won't they say!

I admit I lost my cool there and if you bothered to read after that you would notice I apologized. But I never called Judaism a "Fake" religion. I said the modern state of Israel was a "fake" nation but that is different.
Aren't all nations made-up, and therefore fake?

Disliking is one thing. Acting on the Dislike to create a hostile enviornment is another.

and NO WHERE in the Constitution is it mentioned about Separation of Church and State either. yet many a court battle was won using that phrase.

The constitution says that the government can endorse no religion, and it is up to the courts to interpret that.

I just thought when i read this...

A true Christian wouldn't give a shit what other's thought about him. He also wouldn't go around rubbing the religion in other people's faces and he'd allow others to be free with their religion.

I'm agnostic... Totally agnostic (which if some of you didn't know) is still a form of Christianity. It seems like the Gnostics had a better idea of what Jesus would have wanted from his people and that's toleration and a LACK OF BITCHING!

I just thought when i read this...

A true Christian wouldn't give a shit what other's thought about him. He also wouldn't go around rubbing the religion in other people's faces and he'd allow others to be free with their religion.
I tried that several times, as did others. It did not work.

I just thought when i read this...

A true Christian wouldn't give a shit what other's thought about him. He also wouldn't go around rubbing the religion in other people's faces and he'd allow others to be free with their religion.

I'm agnostic... Totally agnostic (which if some of you didn't know) is still a form of Christianity. It seems like the Gnostics had a better idea of what Jesus would have wanted from his people and that's toleration and a LACK OF BITCHING!
ag·nos·tic Audio pronunciation of "agnostic" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-nstk)
n.

1.
1. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.


How is it still Christianity?

I just thought when i read this...

A true Christian wouldn't give a shit what other's thought about him. He also wouldn't go around rubbing the religion in other people's faces and he'd allow others to be free with their religion.

I'm agnostic... Totally agnostic (which if some of you didn't know) is still a form of Christianity. It seems like the Gnostics had a better idea of what Jesus would have wanted from his people and that's toleration and a LACK OF BITCHING!
No thats bullshit, if Jesus wanted christians to do that he would have said something about turning the other cheek!

Oh wait...

I just thought when i read this...

A true Christian wouldn't give a shit what other's thought about him. He also wouldn't go around rubbing the religion in other people's faces and he'd allow others to be free with their religion.

I'm agnostic... Totally agnostic (which if some of you didn't know) is still a form of Christianity. It seems like the Gnostics had a better idea of what Jesus would have wanted from his people and that's toleration and a LACK OF BITCHING!
Well, no, agnostic is not Christian - it's just open to all possibilities.

I brought up what I believe to be an issue that must be addressed. You have come here and only strenghtened my view of it. Why can a Christian be given abuse and a Muslim not? Am I any different to a Muslim down the street?
Actually, I think there was a thread recently about the follies or otherwise of Islam. I can't be arsed to look for it, but it's bound to be about somewhere.

I agree that Christians should not be singled out for hatred, and I don't hate any of them. What I do hate is being told what I should and should not believe; everyone has the right to choose that themselves. No offence, but it's usually Christian believers that try to tell me how I should think, rather than followers of any other religion. That's a generalisation, I know, but it has its basis in truth. That's what my problem is, not Christianity or the people that follow it per se.

By the way, the religious discrimination thing at work is ludicrous and good luck with combatting it. It's been going on here for years, and attempts to curb it are only starting to work now.

Well the Gnostics were formed as a branch of Chrisitianity in the beginning, which is basically what I follow. They followed Jesus's teachings yet did not necessarily believe that he was the son of God. They believed in a god who had both male and female characteristics. They also believed that it is important to always be searching for the truth because ignorance is not on the path to salvation.

They are part Christian because they followed Jesus's teachings is all

They believed that he was a prophet from God, but they also believed that God sends down many prophets over time ie. Arch Biship desmond Tutu, Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King, etc. to teach us of morality.

haha well it's quite clear you know nothing of the history of Gnosticism

Fundamentalism is on the rise, thus an obnoxious counter movement as well.
As long as you spout off bullshit you deserve it served to you in return, too. Its a test of faith, bub, consider yourself lucky.
People can believe whatever they want, untill they try to shove it down my throat or infringe on the beliefs of others. I consider fundamentalist god-pushers who want to take away civil liberties no more or less dangerous than hardcore islamist who pervert their faith into one of terror.

Actually, I think there was a thread recently about the follies or otherwise of Islam. I can't be arsed to look for it, but it's bound to be about somewhere.

I agree that Christians should not be singled out for hatred, and I don't hate any of them. What I do hate is being told what I should and should not believe; everyone has the right to choose that themselves. No offence, but it's usually Christian believers that try to tell me how I should think, rather than followers of any other religion. That's a generalisation, I know, but it has its basis in truth. That's what my problem is, not Christianity or the people that follow it per se.

By the way, the religious discrimination thing at work is ludicrous and good luck with combatting it. It's been going on here for years, and attempts to curb it are only starting to work now.

I agree, everyone has the right to believe what they want. I don't press my faith but rather hold it to my heart. Which is what I am saying, I like many Christians are insulted yet the world turns a blind eye all the while saying "those peskey Christians are whinging again". I don't go up to people and say "Believe in God or die" - nor do I expect people to come up to me and say "What does God think about shaving your ****s?"

haha well it's quite clear you know nothing of the history of Gnosticism
Ok Now are you using Gnosticism as a synonym of Agnosticism or are you taking the separate faith

If so Gnostic does not normally = Agnosticism which you claimed in your first post

Here just incase you cant follow
You said
I'm agnostic... Totally agnostic (which if some of you didn't know) is still a form of Christianity. It seems like the Gnostics had a better idea of what Jesus would have wanted from his people and that's toleration and a LACK OF BITCHING!

Now
ag·nos·tic Audio pronunciation of "agnostic" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-nstk)
n.

1.
1. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.


Which is different then

Gnos·ti·cism Audio pronunciation of "Gnosticism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nst-szm)
n.

The doctrines of certain pre-Christian pagan, Jewish, and early Christian sects that valued the revealed knowledge of God and of the origin and end of the human race as a means to attain redemption for the spiritual element in humans and that distinguished the Demiurge from the unknowable Divine Being.

I take it this thread is dead since we have started talking about other things like this?

I'm not afriad of the ACLU, I stand for what I believe is right. But don't hate our enimies, that's not what Christ taught. "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you..."

Has it risen in your area lately?
i wish! sadly, sky-god babytalk is still accepted and even encouraged in my area.

I take it this thread is dead since we have started talking about other things like this?

12/16/04

Never forget!

ag·nosti·cal·ly adv.
Word History: An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist. The term agnostic was fittingly coined by the 19th-century British scientist Thomas H. Huxley, who believed that only material phenomena were objects of exact knowledge. He made up the word from the prefix a-, meaning “without, not,” as in amoral, and the noun Gnostic. Gnostic is related to the Greek word gnsis, “knowledge,” which was used by early Christian writers to mean “higher, esoteric knowledge of spiritual things” hence, Gnostic referred to those with such knowledge. In coining the term agnostic, Huxley was considering as “Gnostics” a group of his fellow intellectuals“ists,” as he called themwho had eagerly embraced various doctrines or theories that explained the world to their satisfaction. Because he was a “man without a rag of a label to cover himself with,” Huxley coined the term agnostic for himself, its first published use being in 1870.


<i> it's today's modified version</I> it's easier for the common folk to understand as Agnostic, you can use it interchangeably.. the differences are too subtle.</I>

haha well it's quite clear you know nothing of the history of Gnosticism
Um, agnosticism is not the same thing as Gnosticism. Notice the "a" at the beginning. That means "the opposite of". Like theism and atheism.

agnostic means not knowing.

theism means believing in a god.
atheism means believing there is no god.

you only know ONE part of the definition of Agnosticism... there is MUCH MORE is what i am saying.

I'm agnostic... Totally agnostic (which if some of you didn't know) is still a form of Christianity.
um...no. pure agnosticism has nothing to do with Christianity. but nice try.

Totally agnostic (which if some of you didn't know) is still a form of Christianity. It seems like the Gnostics had a better idea of what Jesus would have wanted from his people and that's toleration and a LACK OF BITCHING!

Sorry, but that is total bullshit. Being agnostic is about not believing and admitting lack of knowledge, this being a major difference to atheists, who believe God does not exist. Christianity is a belief system, thus the two have no common ground. A lot of christian "know" God exists, but its only through faith.

the Gnostics .. did NOT KNOW! that was the point I am trying to make.. by NOT KNOWING.. that encompasses constantly searching for the truth. It's not as if they just say "well there COULD BE A GOD" it means that we must constantly be searching for God. Wow... if all of you could actually demonstrate that you actually know more than me on the subject I'd applaud you, but you're only showing me how ignorant you are of the whole thing. Just admit that you really don't know much other than

Agnostics don't know...

and I'll accept that.

you only know ONE part of the definition of Agnosticism... there is MUCH MORE is what i am saying.
No that is Gnosticism there is a different

Here just incase you didn’t read the first time


Gnos•ti•cism P Pronunciation Key (n s t -s z m)
n.
The doctrines of certain pre-Christian pagan, Jewish, and early Christian sects that valued the revealed knowledge of God and of the origin and end of the human race as a means to attain redemption for the spiritual element in humans and that distinguished the Demiurge from the unknowable Divine Being.

you only know ONE part of the definition of Agnosticism... there is MUCH MORE is what i am saying.
sorry, but you are simply making up "definitions" for agnosticism. here's what my three dictionaries have to say:

ag·nos·ti·cism Audio pronunciation of "agnosticism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-nst-szm)
n.

1. The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge.
2. The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist.


agnosticism

n 1: a religious orientation of doubt; a denial of ultimate knowledge of the existence of God; "agnosticism holds that you can neither prove nor disprove God's existence" 2: the disbelief in any claims of ultimate knowledge


agnosticism

That doctrine which, professing ignorance, neither asserts nor denies. Specifically: The doctrine that the existence of a personal Deity, an unseen world, etc, can be neither proved nor disproved, because of the necessary limits of the human mind (as sometimes charged upon Hamilton and Mansel), or because of the insufficiency of the evidence furnished by physical and physical data, to warrant a positive conclusion (as taught by the school of Herbert Spencer); opposed alike dogmatic skepticism and to dogmatic theism.

Source: Websters Dictionary

Once again... it IS a belief system.. read about it... please.

the Gnostics .. did NOT KNOW! that was the point I am trying to make.. by NOT KNOWING.. that encompasses constantly searching for the truth. It's not as if they just say "well there COULD BE A GOD" it means that we must constantly be searching for God. Wow... if all of you could actually demonstrate that you actually know more than me on the subject I'd applaud you, but you're only showing me how ignorant you are of the whole thing. Just admit that you really don't know much other than

Agnostics don't know...

and I'll accept that.
Hey we are not the ones confusing Agnostic with Gnostic
Seems to be a n00b thing to do to me

No that is Gnosticism there is a different

Here just incase you didn’t read the first time


Gnos•ti•cism P Pronunciation Key (n s t -s z m)
n.
The doctrines of certain pre-Christian pagan, Jewish, and early Christian sects that valued the revealed knowledge of God and of the origin and end of the human race as a means to attain redemption for the spiritual element in humans and that distinguished the Demiurge from the unknowable Divine Being.
yeah, he seems to be ignoring the crucial "a-" before the "-gnosticism" in agnosticism. agnosticism is, lexically, "without gnosticism," so it basically means the exact opposite of what he is claiming :P.

sorry, but you are simply making up "definitions" for agnosticism. here's what my three dictionaries have to say:

ag·nos·ti·cism Audio pronunciation of "agnosticism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-nst-szm)
n.

1. The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge.
2. The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist.


agnosticism

n 1: a religious orientation of doubt; a denial of ultimate knowledge of the existence of God; "agnosticism holds that you can neither prove nor disprove God's existence" 2: the disbelief in any claims of ultimate knowledge


agnosticism

That doctrine which, professing ignorance, neither asserts nor denies. Specifically: The doctrine that the existence of a personal Deity, an unseen world, etc, can be neither proved nor disproved, because of the necessary limits of the human mind (as sometimes charged upon Hamilton and Mansel), or because of the insufficiency of the evidence furnished by physical and physical data, to warrant a positive conclusion (as taught by the school of Herbert Spencer); opposed alike dogmatic skepticism and to dogmatic theism.

Source: Websters Dictionary


Yeah look back I posted dictionary deffs of it like 3 seperate times ... either not reading or refusing to do so

EXACTLY! that definition is essentially what I just said.

Unknowning, searching for the truth.. etc. etc.

alright... well while you guys can argue what I've been educated in and believe... i'm going to go do something productive with my day and STUDY it for an exam

Alright. He made a mistake. Give him a break.

yeah, he seems to be ignoring the crucial "a-" before the "-gnosticism" in agnosticism. agnosticism is, lexically, "without gnosticism," so it basically means the exact opposite of what he is claiming :P.
Lol then he/she is telling us WE don’t know more then him about it

Silly guy/girl

Yeah look back I posted dictionary deffs of it like 3 seperate times ... either not reading or refusing to do so
Well, there are some people who call themselves "anarchists" who go against the dictionary definition.

Alright. He made a mistake. Give him a break.
Why he/she is not giving us one ... he/she had the wrong definitions and then proceeded to tell us we didn’t know hope he/she can pass that test

Well, there are some people who call themselves "anarchists" who go against the dictionary definition.
And I would argue against them too :)

EXACTLY! that definition is essentially what I just said.

Unknowning, searching for the truth.. etc. etc.

alright... well while you guys can argue what I've been educated in and believe... i'm going to go do something productive with my day and STUDY it for an exam
hint: slinking away with claims to have "something better to do" is always a tipoff to the opposition that you know you've been shown up.

hint: slinking away with claims to have "something better to do" is always a tipoff to the opposition that you know you've been shown up.
:fluffle: good job girl :)

And I would argue against them too :)
I do too. But they will not listen. They say that dictionary definitions are archaic.

I guess I kind of ruined my argument. :)

Well, there are some people who call themselves "anarchists" who go against the dictionary definition.
people who refuse to accept the dictionary definitions of words are not "anarchists," they are simply misusing words. it's like if i decide that i want to call the color of the sky "blurktorp"...sure, i can do that, and "rebel" against the English language, but everybody else has the right to tell me how stupid and wrong i am for doing it.

people who refuse to accept the dictionary definitions of words are not "anarchists," they are simply misusing words. it's like if i decide that i want to call the color of the sky "blurktorp"...sure, i can do that, and "rebel" against the English language, but everybody else has the right to tell me how stupid and wrong i am for doing it.
I was referring to anarchists themselves who believe in a "system of government." My apologies for being confusing. :)

Yeah look back I posted dictionary deffs of it like 3 seperate times ... either not reading or refusing to do so
Or at the beginning of the original Agnostics Unite!!! thread (and maybe even the second one).

people who refuse to accept the dictionary definitions of words are not "anarchists," they are simply misusing words. it's like if i decide that i want to call the color of the sky "blurktorp"...sure, i can do that, and "rebel" against the English language, but everybody else has the right to tell me how stupid and wrong i am for doing it.
I hate this too … then I always get an argument that it was “changed” do to popular use. While true that is still the language … almost the whole LANGUAGE definitely changed over time to incorporate new meanings (that and they usually cant tell me when it changed or how long it has to be accepted)

Every where I go I see it, the filth that these anti Christ spread in an attempt to shut us up, to make us stray from the flock. One such instance is at work; I have been there for about 2 months now and have never had a problem with anyone. Once I got asked the question "did you get a **** on the weekend?" I responded that I was Christian and that it was in my view and faith immoral to have sex out of wedlock. Well needless to say after that I have received nothing but insults about my faith. From questions that can be debated with to ones of pure rubbish (I won't post the questions but many are sick)

What really upsets me is that none of them even have the slightest clue of Christianity but bash it as if they know ever detail.

And it hasn't just been like it at work but every where I have been I have seen it. Has it risen in your area lately?


Over the past generations, Christians have most of the time been opressed. Just remeber what we are fighting for, and if someone keeps persecuting you about being a Christain, think of it as free advertisement.

(learn how to make problems into solution, and life as you know it will become much easier)

Or at the beginning of the original Agnostics Unite!!! thread (and maybe even the second one).
I posted a question with the defs about 5 min ago :) just curious (in agnostics unite)

Over the past generations, Christians have most of the time been opressed. Just remeber what we are fighting for, and if someone keeps persecuting you about being a Christain, think of it as free advertisement.

(learn how to make problems into solution, and life as you know it will become much easier)
what's really odd is that our resident White Power group on campus uses that same strategy.

Alas we are the majority but that is only because we hold to the one true faith. We do not faulter nor will we fail God. And don't be childish to come here and tell me to "STFU" if you didn't want to hear what I had to say, you shouldn't have opened the thread. The point I am making is that it is now "alright" to abuse Christians but if you did it to any other faith it wouldn't be acceptable. And the fact we are the majority just means we are under attack by more people who cannot listen to God and would love nothing better than to bring his children crashing down.

What could be more childish than to say "we hold to the one true faith." How arrogant, naive, self-centered, and asinine. Wow, no wonder you feel that you're being attacked, you reap what you sew.

I think we're on a nine page cycle.

Yes, the poor atheists. Where do you live that atheists get oppressed?

Well, most of the rural areas of Southern America, for a start.

Try North East Georgia if you want to see oppression of atheists... and Muslims, Hindus, Methodists... etc... pretty much anyone who ISN'T a Southern Baptist.

Well, most of the rural areas of Southern America, for a start.

Try North East Georgia if you want to see oppression of atheists... and Muslims, Hindus, Methodists... etc... pretty much anyone who ISN'T a Southern Baptist.
Fair enough. And we keep trying to be more like America.

Well, most of the rural areas of Southern America, for a start.

Try North East Georgia if you want to see oppression of atheists... and Muslims, Hindus, Methodists... etc... pretty much anyone who ISN'T a Southern Baptist.
Hell I have gotten kicked out of a coffee club cause it was Christian themed and someone there knew I was agnostic and told the owner (I live in MN by the way … blue state)

Why do i have to be "searching for the truth" when i am an agnostic. That is not in my textbook. If i want to be an apathetic agnostic, which i am by the way, i have every right to be that. I cant believe that now even other agnostics try to tell me i am not a true follower. :rolleyes:

We are witnessing the protracted death of reason. Be it Christianity or Islam (and - in isolated cases - Hinduism and Judaism), the fundamentalist faithful are dragging us into an age of superstition and prejudice.

Why do i have to be "searching for the truth" when i am an agnostic. That is not in my textbook. If i want to be an apathetic agnostic, which i am by the way, i have every right to be that. I cant believe that now even other agnostics try to tell me i am not a true follower. :rolleyes:
Searching can just be "being open" to the truth too ... doesn’t mean actively searching

what oppression... oh yea, the Under God thing... also the "In God we Trust." Atheists don't believe in a higher power right? they don't believe in any form of God or spiritual thing right? so if you were true Athiest... then "In God We Trust" should be nothing but 4 little words. same as "Under God" 2 words that are harmless. but if you are afraid of those 6 words... then maybe you believe after all and thus, not Athiests. After all, to true Atheists, those words are there to make the crazy people calm so it don't matter to you... in fact, True athiest will skip that part of the pledge, mouthing it and not saying it, because it doesn't pertain to them. Let's see... lawsuit by an Athiest for being harrased at work versus the same by a christian... nope, I still see the Athiest winning while the Christian is ridiculed.

Of course, if you are an immigrant to America, you are immediately discriminated on religious grounds.

One of the requirements of citizenship is the Pledge, and you don't get to 'mouth' the parts you don't like... so America is ENFORCING a religious oath on ALL OTHER religions. So much for Freedom to Worship.

You are missing the point... I suspect, deliberately.

Why should even an Atheist have to say "In God We Trust"? Atheists DON'T trust in god, how could they? It would be like Christians trusting in Zeus.

And what does the good book teach the Christian about other gods? Would a Christian willingly profess alleigance to Baal, just to get through the school day, or whatever?

Of course, if you are an immigrant to America, you are immediately discriminated on religious grounds.

One of the requirements of citizenship is the Pledge, and you don't get to 'mouth' the parts you don't like... so America is ENFORCING a religious oath on ALL OTHER religions. So much for Freedom to Worship.

You are missing the point... I suspect, deliberately.

Why should even an Atheist have to say "In God We Trust"? Atheists DON'T trust in god, how could they? It would be like Christians trusting in Zeus.

And what does the good book teach the Christian about other gods? Would a Christian willingly profess alleigance to Baal, just to get through the school day, or whatever?
I believe in Bail ... easy D2 villin

I believe in Bail ... easy D2 villin

YES! Thread deliciously hijacked with Diablo references.

Cool Point Awarded to UpwardThrust.

Where I come from anti-christianity is rare. So is anti-anything really. In most parts of Canada people could really care less....

personally, I call myself a non-theist, which is different than an atheist. I wonder what people think that is?

Where I come from anti-christianity is rare. So is anti-anything really. In most parts of Canada people could really care less....

personally, I call myself a non-theist, which is different than an atheist. I wonder what people think that is?
Agnostic.

YES! Thread deliciously hijacked with Diablo references.

Cool Point Awarded to UpwardThrust.
:-D YAY ... Cool points!!!

I get called “heathen” once a day or so :) ehhh oh well


I dont know where you live, but I can tell you now in Britain its very much the other way around. Only 7% of the population is religious at all and I bet that about 3% of that are people who dont know what to put on the census so just put down Chrisitan. I myself am the only outspoken Christian in my year group. If there are others, they are very quiet.

Alas we are the majority but that is only because we hold to the one true faith. We do not faulter nor will we fail God. And don't be childish to come here and tell me to "STFU" if you didn't want to hear what I had to say, you shouldn't have opened the thread. The point I am making is that it is now "alright" to abuse Christians but if you did it to any other faith it wouldn't be acceptable. And the fact we are the majority just means we are under attack by more people who cannot listen to God and would love nothing better than to bring his children crashing down.


Who gives you the right to proclaim that your beliefs are "the one true faith"? Who gives you the right to say that other religions aren't abused? Who says we want to listen to your "God"?

Worldwide, it is reported that only about 25% practices Christianty. (Various non-Christian religions make up the other 75%.) Perhaps you should consider being a little more open-minded, and accepting people who dislike your views.

:confused: Where I come from anti-christianity is rare. So is anti-anything really. In most parts of Canada people could really care less....

personally, I call myself a non-theist, which is different than an atheist. I wonder what people think that is?


technically, a non-theist would be a Deist, basically a Freethinker (see http://www.ffrf.org )

Worldwide, it is reported that only about 25% practices Christianty. (Various non-Christian religions make up the other 75%.) Perhaps you should consider being a little more open-minded, and accepting people who dislike your views.

Ranking of world religions accurate of July 2004 (aprox)

1) Christianity: 2 billion

2) Islam: 1.3 billion

3) Hinduism: 900 million

4) Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million

5) Buddhism: 360 million

6) Chinese traditional religion: 225 million

7) primal-indigenous: 150 million

8) African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million

9) Sikhism: 23 million

10) Juche: 19 million

11) Spiritism: 14 million

12) Judaism: 14 million

13) Baha'i: 6 million

14) Jainism: 4 million

15) Shinto: 4 million

16) Cao Dai: 3 million

17) Tenrikyo: 2.4 million

18) Neo-Paganism: 1 million

19) Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

20) Rastafarianism: 700 thousand

21) Scientology: 600 thousand

22) Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand

So it can be seen Christianity is the largest single religion by a considerable way.

The idea that a majority of people in the US are christian is simply a myth. A more accurate way to phrase this is to say that a majority of people in the US claim to be christian. However, if you examine the facts, it is obvious that they are lying. A study by sociologist Stanley Presser and researcher Linda Sinson found that despite 40% of respondents surveyed in the US claiming to attend church regularly, the true number is closer to 26%. It seems that people have a tendency to lie about their religiosity.

If a majority of people in the US truly were christian, then the highest rated shows on television would not be ones that featured sex, violence, and/or betrayal. Same for the movies you find in the theater. They would not be dominated by violence, sex, and profanity. Daytime television is dominated by soap operas which inevitably involve adultery, betrayal, murder, deception, and all manner of sexual immorality. Prime time television is dominated by reality tv that focuses on clawing your way to the top by tearing others down or betraying them (The Apprentice, Survivor). Late night television is dominated by shows like CSI:Miami which dont hold back in their display of graphic violence, and late night shows often featuring all manner of sexuality (a masturbating gorilla from Conan O'Brien comes to mind). Fashion also continues to get skimpier and more sexual. You can even find childrens clothing (marketed to girls as young as 7 or 8) that feature cut off shirts with words like "boy candy". Sure, alot of people say they are christian these days, but the reality is far different. Anyone claiming that most people in the US are christian is simply not paying attention to the world they are living in (or they do not live in the US at all).

I dont know where you live, but I can tell you now in Britain its very much the other way around. Only 7% of the population is religious at all and I bet that about 3% of that are people who dont know what to put on the census so just put down Chrisitan. I myself am the only outspoken Christian in my year group. If there are others, they are very quiet.
Minnesota … High amount of Christians (like 80 percent) but also a “Blue” state hehehe they are silly

Ranking of world religions accurate of July 2004 (aprox)

1) Christianity: 2 billion

2) Islam: 1.3 billion

3) Hinduism: 900 million

4) Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million

5) Buddhism: 360 million

6) Chinese traditional religion: 225 million

7) primal-indigenous: 150 million

8) African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million

9) Sikhism: 23 million

10) Juche: 19 million

11) Spiritism: 14 million

12) Judaism: 14 million

13) Baha'i: 6 million

14) Jainism: 4 million

15) Shinto: 4 million

16) Cao Dai: 3 million

17) Tenrikyo: 2.4 million

18) Neo-Paganism: 1 million

19) Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

20) Rastafarianism: 700 thousand

21) Scientology: 600 thousand

22) Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand

So it can be seen Christianity is the largest single religion by a considerable way.

It also needs to be taken into account that many merely put "Christian" on the census forms although they do not practice the actual religion.

UpwardThrust, what the hell were you doing in a Christian-themed coffee house?

(Everybody knows the best place to pick up slutty Christian chicks is at Christian-themed NA meetings or at big-top revivals. Those ladies are really into snake handling.)

The idea that a majority of people in the US are christian is simply a myth. A more accurate way to phrase this is to say that a majority of people in the US claim to be christian. However, if you examine the facts, it is obvious that they are lying. A study by sociologist Stanley Presser and researcher Linda Sinson found that despite 40% of respondents surveyed in the US claiming to attend church regularly, the true number is closer to 26%. It seems that people have a tendency to lie about their religiosity.

If a majority of people in the US truly were christian, then the highest rated shows on television would not be ones that featured sex, violence, and/or betrayal. Same for the movies you find in the theater. They would not be dominated by violence, sex, and profanity. Daytime television is dominated by soap operas which inevitably involve adultery, betrayal, murder, deception, and all manner of sexual immorality. Prime time television is dominated by reality tv that focuses on clawing your way to the top by tearing others down or betraying them (The Apprentice, Survivor). Late night television is dominated by shows like CSI:Miami which dont hold back in their display of graphic violence, and late night shows often featuring all manner of sexuality (a masturbating gorilla from Conan O'Brien comes to mind). Fashion also continues to get skimpier and more sexual. You can even find childrens clothing (marketed to girls as young as 7 or 8) that feature cut off shirts with words like "boy candy". Sure, alot of people say they are christian these days, but the reality is far different. Anyone claiming that most people in the US are christian is simply not paying attention to the world they are living in (or they do not live in the US at all).


masturbating gorilla?...damn, I missed some seriously weird shit.

It also needs to be taken into account that many merely put "Christian" on the census forms although they do not practice the actual religion.

In this study people also had the option of secular/agnostic/athiest etc so I think its fair to say its accurate.

It also needs to be taken into account that many merely put "Christian" on the census forms although they do not practice the actual religion.
There is so many non practices in EVERY religion … so the ratio is probably still fairly accurate

In this study people also had the option of secular/agnostic/athiest etc so I think its fair to say its accurate.
Lol we think alike :D (at least in some ways)

Ranking of world religions accurate of July 2004 (aprox)

1) Christianity: 2 billion
22) Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand

So it can be seen Christianity is the largest single religion by a considerable way.

I doubt your statistics, Neo.

It seems highly unlikely that anyone has EVER done anything like the amount of research that would be required to come up with those numbers.

I have never been stopped in the street, and asked my religion - for example.

Also, where is Catholicism, on your list?

Also - we've covered this before... (I studied Market Research at University... so I know how these things work)...

A classic situation is as follows:

Question: What religion are you?
Answer: I'm not REALLY religious at all...
Question: Well, do you believe that it's possible there is a god?
Answer: Yeah, sure, it's POSSIBLE....
Question: Okay - I'll just put "Christian"...

I doubt your statistics, Neo.

It seems highly unlikely that anyone has EVER done anything like the amount of research that would be required to come up with those numbers.

I have never been stopped in the street, and asked my religion - for example.

Also, where is Catholicism, on your list?

Also - we've covered this before... (I studied Market Research at University... so I know how these things work)...

A classic situation is as follows:

Question: What religion are you?
Answer: I'm not REALLY religious at all...
Question: Well, do you believe that it's possible there is a god?
Answer: Yeah, sure, it's POSSIBLE....
Question: Okay - I'll just put "Christian"...

*poke* no offense, but Catholicism is under the larger umbrella of Christianity. It surprises even me (a lifelong pagan) that people don't know that.

The idea that a majority of people in the US are christian is simply a myth. A more accurate way to phrase this is to say that a majority of people in the US claim to be christian. However, if you examine the facts, it is obvious that they are lying. A study by sociologist Stanley Presser and researcher Linda Sinson found that despite 40% of respondents surveyed in the US claiming to attend church regularly, the true number is closer to 26%. It seems that people have a tendency to lie about their religiosity.

If a majority of people in the US truly were christian, then the highest rated shows on television would not be ones that featured sex, violence, and/or betrayal. Same for the movies you find in the theater. They would not be dominated by violence, sex, and profanity. Daytime television is dominated by soap operas which inevitably involve adultery, betrayal, murder, deception, and all manner of sexual immorality. Prime time television is dominated by reality tv that focuses on clawing your way to the top by tearing others down or betraying them (The Apprentice, Survivor). Late night television is dominated by shows like CSI:Miami which dont hold back in their display of graphic violence, and late night shows often featuring all manner of sexuality (a masturbating gorilla from Conan O'Brien comes to mind). Fashion also continues to get skimpier and more sexual. You can even find childrens clothing (marketed to girls as young as 7 or 8) that feature cut off shirts with words like "boy candy". Sure, alot of people say they are christian these days, but the reality is far different. Anyone claiming that most people in the US are christian is simply not paying attention to the world they are living in (or they do not live in the US at all).
I don't think you have any right to judge who is and isn't a Christian.
They may very well be Christian, how they worship or observe the rules plays no part in that as long as they believe Christ is their saviour.

[QUOTE=Austrealite]Once I got asked the question "did you get a **** on the weekend?" I responded that I was Christian and that it was in my view and faith immoral to have sex out of wedlock.

-snips-

What really upsets me is that none of them even have the slightest clue of Christianity but bash it as if they know ever detail. [QUOTE]

So what was it you were too uptight to talk about getting or not getting over the weekend?

I doubt your statistics, Neo.

It seems highly unlikely that anyone has EVER done anything like the amount of research that would be required to come up with those numbers.

I have never been stopped in the street, and asked my religion - for example.

Also, where is Catholicism, on your list?

Also - we've covered this before... (I studied Market Research at University... so I know how these things work)...

A classic situation is as follows:

Question: What religion are you?
Answer: I'm not REALLY religious at all...
Question: Well, do you believe that it's possible there is a god?
Answer: Yeah, sure, it's POSSIBLE....
Question: Okay - I'll just put "Christian"...

Neo's stats are accurate. Numbers are not arrived at by asking every single person their religion, but by statistical analysis. Also, Catholic is a Christian religion; in fact the largest denomination of the Christian religion.

Rubbish, while Judaism might recieve some doses of attacks, nothing on the level of Christianity
Come on, Jews are the most persecuted religion in history.

It's funny how Christians are so "persecuted", but that in many places, especially America, they are the ones making government policy. Surely being in power means that you're not oppressed?

I have seen and heard of people of all faiths, races etc praising themselves that they desecrate Churches, Smash down tombs of Christians...because of their faith...
Where does this happen (well, outside of Norway)?

If you cannot tell that a person is a christian without asking, then chances are that the person is not a christian. The person may believe in Jesus, they may believe in God, but if their beleif does not affect their life, then they are not christian. What you mention is exactly what Satan wants people to believe ("its ok to believe that stuff, its ok to be a christian, just dont let it affect your life.").

It is no wonder so many fundamentalist Christians gravitate to the Republican Party. They both share a persecution complex. No matter how large they get or how much power they possess, they both still manage to convince themselves that they are being oppressed, ignored, rejected, and belittled.

Fundamentalist christians gravitate towards the republican party because they feel they have been ignored by the democratic party (and, in fact, they have).

Fundamentalist christians gravitate towards the republican party because they feel they have been ignored by the democratic party (and, in fact, they have).

Well, maybe the Democrats were taught to ignore ignorance.

No offense. Just a thought.

If you said stupid ass things like this irl to me I'd harrass you too.

And how about I post whatever I want? He has the right to come here spouting inane trash, and I have the right to tell him that he's a moron.

its not insane trash!!! and if you insist on throwing worthless names upon everyone maybe you're the moron!! maybe you should brush on your history and then you would know that he speaks the truth!!! wake up and READ somthing that might further educate yourself on things you try to talk about but know nothing of!!

Well, maybe the Democrats were taught to ignore ignorance.

No offense. Just a thought.

How could you call a group of people ignorant and then tell a person who is a member of that group "no offense"? Doesnt that kind of make you look like a complete idiot? and umm....ignorant?

*poke* no offense, but Catholicism is under the larger umbrella of Christianity. It surprises even me (a lifelong pagan) that people don't know that.

No, you see... I live in Georgia... where the Baptists are... and I have been authoritatively told that Catholics are not Christians.

The problem with an umbrella term like Christianity, is that most of the factions held under that banner don't WANT each other, EXCEPT when it comes to a battle of "Who Has Most Believers".

Then, they are all fine, all of a sudden.

its not insane trash!!! and if you insist on throwing worthless names upon everyone maybe you're the moron!! maybe you should brush on your history and then you would know that he speaks the truth!!! wake up and READ somthing that might further educate yourself on things you try to talk about but know nothing of!!

This person said INANE, not insane. Perhaps if you would actually read the message, you'd get the meaning? Also, what gives you the right to say that 'he' is speaking the truth?

No, you see... I live in Georgia... where the Baptists are... and I have been authoritatively told that Catholics are not Christians.

The problem with an umbrella term like Christianity, is that most of the factions held under that banner don't WANT each other, EXCEPT when it comes to a battle of "Who Has Most Believers".

Then, they are all fine, all of a sudden.


Baptists dont get to decide what the word Christian means. Christian means follower of Christ. Therefore, anyone who attempts to follow Christ is a christian be they baptist, presbyterian, catholic, or mormon.

Fundamentalist christians gravitate towards the republican party because they feel they have been ignored by the democratic party (and, in fact, they have).

Perhaps, and in my view rightly so. However, I do think the Democratic Party should reach out to Evangelical Christians, who are often very different from fundamentalists. Fundamentalism, whether Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or Jewish, is a scourge and should be rejected and marginalized as much as possible.

baptists are a bunch of elitists jackasses ESPECIALLY the southern baptists

To second Grave, I've also heard the "Catholics aren't Christians" line from fundies. I've responded by asking whether the defining element of a "Christian" is a belief in Christ, but this only got me some runaround about the doctrine of works and about acceptance of Christ and more yakety-yak.

This is from the book of Matthew in the bible:

11"Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.


So be happy. In your theology, oppression = brownie points

Neo's stats are accurate. Numbers are not arrived at by asking every single person their religion, but by statistical analysis. Also, Catholic is a Christian religion; in fact the largest denomination of the Christian religion.

Just because you agree with Neo, and with the 'method' used for collecting the stats... it doesn't make them any more 'valid' OR 'accurate'.

Re: Catholicism - I know... addressed in another post.

No, you see... I live in Georgia... where the Baptists are... and I have been authoritatively told that Catholics are not Christians.

The problem with an umbrella term like Christianity, is that most of the factions held under that banner don't WANT each other, EXCEPT when it comes to a battle of "Who Has Most Believers".

Then, they are all fine, all of a sudden.

I live in Georgia as well. Catholics ARE part of Christianity. Even the Baptists seem to agree on that (at least where I live). The reason why everyone wants to separate Catholicism from "Christianity" is because of the split from the Church of England way back when..it's quite amusing what history can do to people.

Perhaps, and in my view rightly so. However, I do think the Democratic Party should reach out to Evangelical Christians, who are often very different from fundamentalists. Fundamentalism, whether Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or Jewish, is a scourge and should be rejected and marginalized as much as possible.

Im not sure where you get your definition of evangelical vs fundamentalist from, but I believe the democratic party needs to reach out to all christians. The republican party is only the christian party if you consider all of christianity to be based on two issues (homosexuality and abortion). In every other issue democrats hold the moral high ground (and the correct christian approach). The focus on helping the needy rather than giving more to the rich, the focus on providing health care to all people regardless of their social status, the focus on ending elitism, the focus on peace and proper negotiations rather than being quick to go to war, the focus on human rights, etc, etc. etc. The democratic party was once considered the more christian friendly party, and it can be again because it does hold the most christian beleifs. Sadly, theyve ignored christians and are currently paying for it. They can get them back though, and I hope they do.

I'm not sure, but has anyone pointed out that anti-Christianism usually is brought up when a Christian of any sect, attempts to push their beliefs onto someone else, or deny the legitimacy of anyone elses beliefs?
As I saw on the first page, the use of "One true faith" and terms that say Christianity is the only faith there is, tend to offend people, and they naturally have an agressive recourse to this.
Personally I have many Christian freinds, and I seem to be regarded as a huge Anti-Christian, yet my Christian freinds, who happen to be very devout, on't get bashed by me. In fact, the only people I attack about their beliefs are the ones who refuse to acknowladge the existiance of another faith, or the legitimacy of another faith.

So, have you ever stopped to think that maybe it's just they way you put your beliefs outwards that cause people to bash you?

How could you call a group of people ignorant and then tell a person who is a member of that group "no offense"? Doesnt that kind of make you look like a complete idiot? and umm....ignorant?


Well, apparently you can't understand that someone is being a smartass.

All political groups are ignorant in some way. Some are militantly ignorant, others are content in their ignorance (meaning they don't give half a rat's hairy ass about politics in general), others don't know that they're ignorant, and still others know of their ignorance and want to learn....the same applies to life.

To second Grave, I've also heard the "Catholics aren't Christians" line from fundies. I've responded by asking whether the defining element of a "Christian" is a belief in Christ, but this only got me some runaround about the doctrine of works and about acceptance of Christ and more yakety-yak.

Exactly... Southern Baptists always whip out the "Once Saved, Always Saved" line, and consider every other belief to be somehow heretical.

My uncle is an Anglican priest, and he's just as bad...

That's the problem with Christianity... it is so busy fighting itself internally, it has no energy left to actually serve a worthwhile purpose.

(Not to denigrate any individual Christian... I know some very productive Christians, who generally tend to ignore all the 'politics of religion').

I live in Georgia as well. Catholics ARE part of Christianity. Even the Baptists seem to agree on that (at least where I live). The reason why everyone wants to separate Catholicism from "Christianity" is because of the split from the Church of England way back when..it's quite amusing what history can do to people.

Which part? I am in rural NE GA, and they certainly don't consider Catholics to be 'real' Christians around where I am.

They make a big deal about how Catholics "worship Mary", and how it dogmatic law is heresy... and the old standard that you can't be 'given' forgiveness by man.

Oh - and the whole saved v's works thing, of course.

Im not sure where you get your definition of evangelical vs fundamentalist from, but I believe the democratic party needs to reach out to all christians.

No, the Democratic Party does not and should not court fundamentalists. Fundamentalists see themselves as the guardians of the truth, usually to the exclusion of others' interpretation of the Bible. By definition fundamentalism opposes pluralism, as well as dissent. It is increasingly dominated by racists, political extremists, and is "fundamentally" anti-democratic.

The Democratic Party should court these people no more than they should court the Klan, Neo-Nazis, or any other extremist groups.

Evangelicals, however, tend to be more inclusive and focus on the social justice aspects of Christ's message. Evangelicals ground their faith in biblical teachings such as love, acceptance, refusal to judge others, the Golden Rule, forgiveness, justice, peace, nonviolence, social responsibility and defending the poor and oppressed.

These are issues that are compatible with the message of the Democratic Party and Democrats should do more to reach out to these Christians.

Which part? I am in rural NE GA, and they certainly don't consider Catholics to be 'real' Christians around where I am.

They make a big deal about how Catholics "worship Mary", and how it dogmatic law is heresy... and the old standard that you can't be 'given' forgiveness by man.

Oh - and the whole saved v's works thing, of course.

I live near the GA/SC border, in the overly obnoxious "Home of the Masters" (*gag*) . We seem to be more steeped in false racism than anything else, so religion is a seriously MINOR problem.

That's a cop-out and is why Christianity comes under fire. It takes no personal responsibility. You take 1500 years of oppression, greed, torture, genocide, ethnic cleansing, belittlement of other peoples, forced conversions, cultural theft, and crimes against humanity and accept no culpability. You simply cop-out by saying, "Oh those weren't true Christians".

From what I can tell, the logical conclusion, then, is that there have never been any true Christians. Peter, the rock upon which Jesus said he would build his church, was a slave mongering, greedy, womanizing, lieing, and generally very rude person. Was Peter not a "true Christian"?

How about Paul of Tarsus, who taught that wives are to be subjugate to their husbands (Corinthians)?

Who, then, are the "true" Christians?




Peter, was a REAL Christian, although just as ANY man he was not perfect and commited sin. Comparing Peter to the persons who use Christianity for political gain (Such as the Inquisition or the Crusades) is insane. One must also look at the times and what was acceptable. Slavery was a part of life, and although frowned upon.....a slave must loyaly "Serve his master". As far as womans lib....it was pretty much non existant. However, in Christianity woman had FAR more rights than in ancient Judaism. Women were made allowed to speak in prayer and wow, even MINISTER (to other women, such as the Deaconess did). Ok, his lying, well....many people still do. especially when it comes to saving your own life. Yes, Peter denied Yashuwa (Jesus) three times before the Cock Crowed, but in all honesty even though we like to think we wouldn't most of us would if we feared we would be executed in the same barbaric manner as Yashuwa (Jesus) was. Womanizing.....well, most men still do stuggle with this, although I cant recall where he was actually a womanizer (This is a sin that all Christian men must not give into, especially a minister.) It is better that a minister remain unwed, but it is better he marry than to lust after a women. And if you refer to having more than one woman as "Womanizing" Polygamy was perfectly ok in both Old and New Testiment writtings EXCEPT for Ministers as they needed to focus on a church family rather than a home family. Although this became socially unacceptable (And therfore wrong, as one should "Avoid the apperance of evil" or should not "let their brother stumble") and as far as greed goes.....well, that too is something that most of humanity struggles with, especially for those like me who are the children of Israel, what can I say....we just love money....and sadly that is the root of all evil. Peter is often given a bumb wrap, but apparently his heart was in the right place as Yashuwa (Jesus) kept him close. Look at an earlier example King David (He did many terrible things, but was also a "Man of Yaweh's (God's) own heart". In other words, fualts and all, our lord looks into our hearts to decide on how to put judgement upon us. I thank you for bearing with me as I am a strange one indeed believing in both the Old laws of my people as well as the new laws of our savior. I just wanted to come in defense of poor old Peter.

Joseph

Exactly... Southern Baptists always whip out the "Once Saved, Always Saved" line, and consider every other belief to be somehow heretical.

My uncle is an Anglican priest, and he's just as bad...

That's the problem with Christianity... it is so busy fighting itself internally, it has no energy left to actually serve a worthwhile purpose.

(Not to denigrate any individual Christian... I know some very productive Christians, who generally tend to ignore all the 'politics of religion').


This isnt true. The reality is that christianity has served many worthwhile purposes. Among organizations with a christian heritage are:

The Salvation Army (helps the poor and homeless)
Boy Scouts of America (helps instill moral values in children and young men)
YMCA (provides an alternative to drugs and gangs for inner city youth)
World Vision (helps fight hunger in the poorest of nations)
Habitat for Humanity (helps rebuild houses for the needy)
BoysTown

Christianity has helped fight hunger in Africa and other poor countries, end apartheid, help inner city youth, provide food shelter and education for the homeless, provide a home for orphans, help in disaster releif efforts, etc. etc. Its contribution to humanity is immense. In fact, it is very difficult to find an orphanage that is NOT called "our mother of..." or "Saint...".

Well im from Milwaukee Wi and racism plays into the nation's most segragated city.It think Catholics are just mislead Christians, mainly from the revisions by the Roman Church to the bible, which is missing 13 chapters form the old testament.but anyway, Democrats should try to avoid christian radicals, and focus on christians who may be on the right, who have liberal leanings...As well as the Christian Left, which does exist, to show that we respect the rights for human beings to live the way the want, and still believe in the bible...Buy China-Screw America...

If people took what only Jesus said homosexuality wouldent be a sin :p
lol Hmm: did he say that murder/theft were wrong? If so, please correct me.

This isnt true. The reality is that christianity has served many worthwhile purposes. Among organizations with a christian heritage are:

The Salvation Army (helps the poor and homeless)
Boy Scouts of America (helps instill moral values in children and young men)
YMCA (provides an alternative to drugs and gangs for inner city youth)
World Vision (helps fight hunger in the poorest of nations)
Habitat for Humanity (helps rebuild houses for the needy)
BoysTown

Christianity has helped fight hunger in Africa and other poor countries, end apartheid, help inner city youth, provide food shelter and education for the homeless, provide a home for orphans, help in disaster releif efforts, etc. etc. Its contribution to humanity is immense. In fact, it is very difficult to find an orphanage that is NOT called "our mother of..." or "Saint...".

Without realising it, you have made my point for me.

A movement that claims to have 2 billion adherents, and that contributes these little flashes of good.... just think what they could achieve, if they were not always at each others throats (crosses, etc.).

Well im from Milwaukee Wi and racism plays into the nation's most segragated city.It think Catholics are just mislead Christians, mainly from the revisions by the Roman Church to the bible, which is missing 13 chapters form the old testament.but anyway, Democrats should try to avoid christian radicals, and focus on christians who may be on the right, who have liberal leanings...As well as the Christian Left, which does exist, to show that we respect the rights for human beings to live the way the want, and still believe in the bible...Buy China-Screw America...
you do realise the upper majority of all christians divisions splintered from catholicism, they arnt doing much better.

This isnt true. The reality is that christianity has served many worthwhile purposes. Among organizations with a christian heritage are:

The Salvation Army (helps the poor and homeless)
Boy Scouts of America (helps instill moral values in children and young men)
YMCA (provides an alternative to drugs and gangs for inner city youth)
World Vision (helps fight hunger in the poorest of nations)
Habitat for Humanity (helps rebuild houses for the needy)
BoysTown

Christianity has helped fight hunger in Africa and other poor countries, end apartheid, help inner city youth, provide food shelter and education for the homeless, provide a home for orphans, help in disaster releif efforts, etc. etc. Its contribution to humanity is immense. In fact, it is very difficult to find an orphanage that is NOT called "our mother of..." or "Saint...". Hear, hear.

Don't forget the good ideas the Messiah himself gave.

Grave 'n' Idle, they are not often at each others' throats - not in Britain, anyway. Northern Ireland - yes. But the church isn't a constant internecine war.

Hear, hear.

Don't forget the good ideas the Messiah himself gave.

Grave 'n' Idle, they are not often at each others' throats - not in Britain, anyway. Northern Ireland - yes. But the church isn't a constant internecine war.

It's not AS bad in Britain... at least, not any more....

I do have distinct memories of my grandparents telling me my parents "were not really married", because he was Roman Catholic, and she was Anglican...

Hear, hear.

Don't forget the good ideas the Messiah himself gave.

Grave 'n' Idle, they are not often at each others' throats - not in Britain, anyway. Northern Ireland - yes. But the church isn't a constant internecine war.

How are Catholics received in Scotland? Still a little residual prejudice?

Without realising it, you have made my point for me.

A movement that claims to have 2 billion adherents, and that contributes these little flashes of good.... just think what they could achieve, if they were not always at each others throats (crosses, etc.).


No, your point is disproven. You may not realise it, but christians are at work all the time helping the world. These arent just flashes of good, they are ongoing, long running programs that are at work daily making a difference in this world. While you guys get out of work and go home to watch tv some of us get out of work and go to the ghetto to tutor disadvantaged youth (or do some other form of ministry). The problem is what I mentioned earlier that of people who call themselves christians, few really are. If we had more real christians we could do more, but we dont, we have alot of people who call themselves christians but very few who do the works to prove it, and as the bible says faith without works is dead and therefore useless. The idea that christians are at each others throats all the time is yet another common myth. Go to any church and you will find that less than 5% of their time is spent worrying about other denominations or religions. The problem isnt that christians are fighting each other (they arent), its that there arent enough christians.

you do realise the upper majority of all christians divisions splintered from catholicism, they arnt doing much better.

true...but most dont employ the robes or similarites to roman gods.the gods where just turned into the saints, and since the main fighting is over the perversion of the Cahtolics and the sopposed hypocrisy that white southern christians connect with society...I mean these people are trying to repeal the new deal 4 god sakes...

However, in Christianity woman had FAR more rights than in ancient Judaism. Women were made allowed to speak in prayer and wow, even MINISTER (to other women, such as the Deaconess did).

Corinthians 1 14:34
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law."
Either read your bible or do not make claims. Mulier taceat in ecclesiam was pretty much enforced.

No, your point is disproven. You may not realise it, but christians are at work all the time helping the world. These arent just flashes of good, they are ongoing, long running programs that are at work daily making a difference in this world. While you guys get out of work and go home to watch tv some of us get out of work and go to the ghetto to tutor disadvantaged youth (or do some other form of ministry). The problem is what I mentioned earlier that of people who call themselves christians, few really are. If we had more real christians we could do more, but we dont, we have alot of people who call themselves christians but very few who do the works to prove it, and as the bible says faith without works is dead and therefore useless. The idea that christians are at each others throats all the time is yet another common myth. Go to any church and you will find that less than 5% of their time is spent worrying about other denominations or religions. The problem isnt that christians are fighting each other (they arent), its that there arent enough christians.
LOL there arnt enough christians? you are the biggest religion :p

(and I used to go to church) I would guess less then 5% of anyone there had done any sort of mission work (I had ... lots of time at feed our starving children)

But most of them couldent be bothered to leave there little farming town to do work for other people

How are Catholics received in Scotland? Still a little residual prejudice? I don't know. I haven't been there. Scotland's small, though. Most Christians - me and the ones I know certainly - don't mind each others' denominations. I'm not saying that ONLY Christians do good works, but many do. It's this duty thing.

When I was athetistic, I believed that people should be able to work together WITHOUT a myth.

No, your point is disproven. You may not realise it, but christians are at work all the time helping the world. These arent just flashes of good, they are ongoing, long running programs that are at work daily making a difference in this world. While you guys get out of work and go home to watch tv some of us get out of work and go to the ghetto to tutor disadvantaged youth (or do some other form of ministry). The problem is what I mentioned earlier that of people who call themselves christians, few really are. If we had more real christians we could do more, but we dont, we have alot of people who call themselves christians but very few who do the works to prove it, and as the bible says faith without works is dead and therefore useless. The idea that christians are at each others throats all the time is yet another common myth. Go to any church and you will find that less than 5% of their time is spent worrying about other denominations or religions. The problem isnt that christians are fighting each other (they arent), its that there arent enough christians.

On the contrary, as a former christian (and, I would have called myself a 'true christian')... and as a present atheist-who-does-good-works, I think there is a discrepency between what the church SHOULD be, and what it IS.

You seem to assume that the ONLY people who are doing these good things are christians, whereas MOST of ther people I have known that did 'good works' (volunteer work, community aid projects in third world countries - both of which I, as an atheist - have been involved in) have been non-religious... and have done things out of a genuine concern for people, rather than because they were told to do it by some guy in a book.

Perhaps we are differing over definitions of 'christians'... perhaps you mean those who follow a christlike model... in which case, my volunteer work is explained by my 'christian' nature.

Perhaps you mean that most christians are NOT 'christians', really... in which case, I agree - and made the same point.

I agree witht he first post and that christains are always the ones that get their views bashed im talking mostly about this site but if i were to post a thread that that homosexuals are stupid and should just stfu and that all their belifes are wrong( i dont belive this) every one would jump on me and say i was horrible but there are plenty says that same about chrsatins but many people dont care

Ps christinaity isnt the biggest relgion it budhism i think if not its some kind of ism

true...but most dont employ the robes or similarites to roman gods.the gods where just turned into the saints, and since the main fighting is over the perversion of the Cahtolics and the sopposed hypocrisy that white southern christians connect with society...I mean these people are trying to repeal the new deal 4 god sakes...
no, the gods were NOT turned into the saints. the saints are ACTUAL People who died and were sainted by the pope. while the pope went crazy with this around the dark ages and in the past right now its very strict. also, its a very long process with 3 ridiculous steps and it takes DECADES for canonization

I agree witht he first post and that christains are always the ones that get their views bashed im talking mostly about this site but if i were to post a thread that that homosexuals are stupid and should just stfu and that all their belifes are wrong( i dont belive this) every one would jump on me and say i was horrible but there are plenty says that same about chrsatins but many people dont care

Ps christinaity isnt the biggest relgion it budhism i think if not its some kind of ism

Matthew 5:10-12
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

So quit the whining, read the bible and invest some time in learning how to spell.

Alas we are the majority but that is only because we hold to the one true faith. We do not faulter nor will we fail God. And don't be childish to come here and tell me to "STFU" if you didn't want to hear what I had to say, you shouldn't have opened the thread. The point I am making is that it is now "alright" to abuse Christians but if you did it to any other faith it wouldn't be acceptable. And the fact we are the majority just means we are under attack by more people who cannot listen to God and would love nothing better than to bring his children crashing down.

One true faith? Maybe I'm joining a bit late to comment on this, but isn't that as offensive as some of the things people say to you. I live in Britain, a truely secular nation. However, many of my friends are religious, mostly Christian, but also Sikh and (uh-oh) Muslim. I'm an atheist, however, and I don't try to convert them to my "faith", and neitherdo they try to convert me to theirs. Try being more liberal, and don't bandy about your faith. It immediately puts you up as a target. By the way, what are the views on Stem Cell research, (Christian and Non-Christian)?

LOL there arnt enough christians? you are the biggest religion :p

(and I used to go to church) I would guess less then 5% of anyone there had done any sort of mission work (I had ... lots of time at feed our starving children)

But most of them couldent be bothered to leave there little farming town to do work for other people

Which proves my point, the problem isnt that christians are fighting each other (we arent), the problem is that most people who call themselves christians really arent. Faith without works is dead.

Interesting tid-bit:

According to David Barrett et al, editors of the "World Christian Encyclopedia: A comparative survey of churches and religions - AD 30 to 2200," 34,000 separate Christian groups have been identified in the world.

There are over 2 billion self-identified Christians, but more than any other religion they love to split appart from each other. Why do you suppose that is?

If the number of people who share your belief is important to you:

1. Christianity: 2 billion

2. Islam: 1.3 billion

3. Hinduism: 900 million

4. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million

5. Buddhism: 360 million

6. Chinese traditional religion: 225 million

7. primal-indigenous: 150 million

8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million

9. Sikhism: 23 million

10. Juche: 19 million

11. Spiritism: 14 million

12. Judaism: 14 million

13. Baha'i: 6 million

14. Jainism: 4 million

15. Shinto: 4 million

16. Cao Dai: 3 million

17. Tenrikyo: 2.4 million

18. Neo-Paganism: 1 million

19. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

20. Rastafarianism: 700 thousand

21. Scientology: 600 thousand

22. Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand

Corinthians 1 14:34
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law."
Either read your bible or do not make claims. Mulier taceat in ecclesiam was pretty much enforced.


That is an often misunderstood quote from scripture. Most people misquote it by implying that this means that women should not speak but men should. The fact is that no one except the teachers should be speaking in church. What you need to understand in order to understand that verse is that it is taken from a letter written by Paul to the church of Corinth. This church had a specific problem where the women in the church were being disruptive during church services, it is in addressing this problem that Paul says dont let the women speak in church, they need to be quiet. If the problem in Corinth was that the men were being disruptive then the verse would have read differently. But the church of Corinth wasnt having a problem with men speaking during the church service and being disruptive, they were having a problem with the women doing that, and this is what Paul was addressing.

Interesting tid-bit:

According to David Barrett et al, editors of the "World Christian Encyclopedia: A comparative survey of churches and religions - AD 30 to 2200," 34,000 separate Christian groups have been identified in the world.

There are over 2 billion self-identified Christians, but more than any other religion they love to split appart from each other. Why do you suppose that is?

If the number of people who share your belief is important to you:

1. Christianity: 2 billion

2. Islam: 1.3 billion

3. Hinduism: 900 million

4. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million

5. Buddhism: 360 million

6. Chinese traditional religion: 225 million

7. primal-indigenous: 150 million

8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million

9. Sikhism: 23 million

10. Juche: 19 million

11. Spiritism: 14 million

12. Judaism: 14 million

13. Baha'i: 6 million

14. Jainism: 4 million

15. Shinto: 4 million

16. Cao Dai: 3 million

17. Tenrikyo: 2.4 million

18. Neo-Paganism: 1 million

19. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

20. Rastafarianism: 700 thousand

21. Scientology: 600 thousand

22. Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand



You know, I think this has already been posted.

All I can suggest is that you either join or contact the relevant union and ask them for advice. It can't hurt, because legally you are entitled to keep that information secret.

If unwilling to do that, perhaps instead contact the Human Rights and Equal Employment Opportunity Commission for advice and express your concerns to them as well. http://www.hreoc.gov.au/


The problem is that he did not keep his religous beliefs to himself. I have a ruls about not talking about religon at work. When asked if you got laid over the weekend a simple answer such as, I don't believe in premarital sex, would have worked fine. When you start throwing around religon you invite poeple to react. It is unfortunate that many people will react as his coworkers have.

If you have to tell people about your religous belifs I would suggest you do it over a cup of coffee ion a polite maner. If you start in an antagonistic maner it lower the chances of having a meaningful discussion of your ideas.

What I am saying all boils down to; You reap what you sow.

That is an often misunderstood quote from scripture. Most people misquote it by implying that this means that women should not speak but men should. The fact is that no one except the teachers should be speaking in church. What you need to understand in order to understand that verse is that it is taken from a letter written by Paul to the church of Corinth. This church had a specific problem where the women in the church were being disruptive during church services, it is in addressing this problem that Paul says dont let the women speak in church, they need to be quiet. If the problem in Corinth was that the men were being disruptive then the verse would have read differently. But the church of Corinth wasnt having a problem with men speaking during the church service and being disruptive, they were having a problem with the women doing that, and this is what Paul was addressing.
Yeah, sure. So why is a special interest sidenote about technicalities in a specific congregation included in the holy scripture? It became actual church law within the largest denomination, the RCC and i guess in several smaller sects. Sorry, you cant just pick from the Bible what befits you and disregard everything else. If i used that technique i could construct a justification for everything out of the scripture. Fact is that for centuries women were not allowed to utter anything in the church.

Yeah, sure. So why is a special interest sidenote about technicalities in a specific congregation included in the holy scripture? It became actual church law within the largest denomination, the RCC and i guess in several smaller sects. Sorry, you cant just pick from the Bible what befits you and disregard everything else. If i used that technique i could construct a justification for everything out of the scripture. Fact is that for centuries women were not allowed to utter anything in the church.


No one is allowed to talk during a church service, it is disruptive. As far as to why it is in the bible, its in the bible because these letters form the foundation of the early church and are useful to us today. It is a well known fact that the book 1 Corinthians is one of the Pauline epistles (which means letter). It is a letter written by Paul to the church of Corinth addressing the problems they were having in that specific church. Paul wrote two such letters to Corinth and they are preserved in our bible as 1 Corinthians and 2 Corinthians. All epistles are letters written to certain churches. Im not going to teach a beginners new testament class on this post, but Ill give a basic overview of the New Testament.

4 Gospels (books about the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus):
Matthew
Mark
Luke
John

1 Acts (tells of the events that transpired after Jesus' ascension)

13 Pauline epistles (letters written by Paul, the first 9 written to various churches, the last 4 written to individuals):
Romans
1 and 2 Corinthians
Galatians
Ephesians
Phillipians
Colossians
1 and 2 Thessalonians
1 and 2 Timothy
Titus
Philemon

1 Sermon
Hebrews

7 Universal Epistles (letters written to broad audiences by various apostles)
James
1 and 2 Peter
1, 2, and 3 John
Jude

1 Apocalypse (book of prophecy about the end times)
Revelations

No one is allowed to talk during a church service, it is disruptive.
You dont want to understand, do you? This was used as a justification why women could not preach, say prayers, give the blessing etc. In short: They could not be ministers. For a long time they were not allowed to sing, that is where the castrate choirs stemmed from.

Did it ever come to mind that maybe these people had bad experiences with Christians? I am sick and, tired of people proclaiming on high that their way is the right way. I resent any form of prosletizing as do many. If anything there are many more attacks by christians towards other faiths. It may not be lynching but it is intolerance.

You dont want to understand, do you? This was used as a justification why women could not preach, say prayers, give the blessing etc. In short: They could not be ministers. For a long time they were not allowed to sing, that is where the castrate choirs stemmed from.


Sure, but those people were wrong and were taking this verse out of context, just like people today who use it to say that christianity is against womens rights. I know people have misunderstood and misquoted this verse, that is precisely what I said, that it is a widely misunderstood and misquoted verse.

Thus a half of the worlds christians are wrong and you are right? The RCC softened the old mulier taceat in ecclesiam, but only to allow women to say the lords prayer and sing along. Still no right to preach, nunneries still have "fathers" doing church service.

Thus a half of the worlds christians are wrong and you are right? The RCC softened the old mulier taceat in ecclesiam, but only to allow women to say the lords prayer and sing along. Still no right to preach, nunneries still have "fathers" doing church service.


Catholics are wrong about many many things. Which is why there was such a great split from catholicism during the protestant reformation. However, that has nothing to do with the verse you mentioned. That verse isnt what they use as justification. They have a much more complicated beleif system based on the proper roles of men and women. Their reasoning for not allowing women priests is very complex and has more to do with tradition and papal decree than with the bible. The verse from 1 corinthians is not their reason and never has been. Catholics believe in the bible + tradition. It is from tradition that they get their views on women priests (note, women can and do preach, they just cannot be priests).

.....why is it threads by trolls, particularly trolls bringing up the same damn fundamentalist Christian points over and over again, always garner this many responses? o_O; I know, I'm responding too, but I'm just curious. I swear I've seen this same thread here before. x_x;

Hell, I've seen several variants on similar threads. They go like this....

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH I'M PERSECUTED FOR LOVING JESUS WAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!WHY?WHYWHWYWHWYWYYYYY?!!!!! FUCKING ATHEISTS BLAH BLAH BLAH

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH ABORTION BLAH BLAH HERE'S SOME BULLSHIT STATISTICS BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH HORRIBLE ANECDOTE BLAH BLAH BLAH

BLAH BLAH BLAH I'M NOT INSULTING ANYONE BUT IF YOU DON'T ACCEPT JESUS YOU'LL BE BURNING FOREVER IN THE LKE OF FIRE BLAH

I HATE HOMOS!!!! I HATE HOMOS!!! I HATE HOMOS!!!

BLAH BLAH BLAH SCIENTIFIC ADVANCEMENT IS WRONG BLAH BLAH BLAH I HATE THE IDEA OF EVOLUTION BECAUSE I NEED TO FEEL LIKE I'M JESUS BLAH BLAH BLAH

...hasn't this all been said before? Just asking.

Sure, but those people were wrong and were taking this verse out of context, just like people today who use it to say that christianity is against womens rights. I know people have misunderstood and misquoted this verse, that is precisely what I said, that it is a widely misunderstood and misquoted verse.
It seems like EVERY verse used by any Christian for political purposes is misquoted. The writers should just have used complete phraseology and spoke to everyone like they are children

(I know the term make it idiot proof and they will just find a bigger idiot) but maybe if it was not so vague and mistranslated people wouldn’t use it to further their purposes

Maybe god should just have made a list like

Killing = bad
Charity = good
Marriage = good
Love = good


Would cut out so much of the BS
Keep it simple and Define Everything, define what killing means what marriage means what charity means but keep it simple

The more explicit he/she was the better off we would be

Well, this is an interesting conversation…

First off, if someone at worked asked you “that” in the first place, that’s a worthy enough cause to file a complaint. You should have just dumbed it down a bit and told the person it was none of their business. But of course, you decided to justify yourself with your religion… I probably would have done the same thing in your situation, had I no time to think before I spoke… it’s habit right? It’s wrong what your colleagues are doing this to you… but you should know right off the bat, it’s not a personal assault to Christians, if you would have said you were Jewish, or Pagan, you probably would have never been able to set foot in your work space again.
I take it to myself, to never mention my religion unless I’m asked directly, in which case I’ll tell them… but otherwise, in this day and age, it’s best just to keep your moth shut. I’m not sorry you experienced what you did… because everyone should at some point in their life, it’s “humbling” to say the least, it shows, that no mater your religion, you’re just like everybody else…



As for the conversation about Women not being able to speak in church. I would like to add a comment to that.
I find it fascinating how, so often, pieces of the bible are “misunderstood”, and when you asked why that is, people usually answer with a “it’s only because it was written so long ago, and people spoke differently then”, but some things, like the passage you’re talking about, seem like they could have easily been written differently to make the point more clear, and most laws should be general. If the women are speaking during church, the law should be appointed that NO citizen could speak during church. It seems, our dear Paul, was being vague for a reason… a law written like such, can be defended how you are defending it, because that’s probably how it was defended back then. But the same law, could also be twisted back then, to say that the script clearly states no woman can speak during church, nor can they preach, sing, or anything else.
So in conclusion, the bible should either be re-written to a degree that the people of this age can understand it clearly, or everyone should except the fact that two-thousand years ago, we were all pricks, especially men… we have grown, and changed sense then, and no one, NO one should be defending who we were so long ago. If anything, we should learn from our mistakes…

For a country that professes to be a country of "religious freedom," we sure don't do a lot of it. Look around you, Christianity is everywhere. Churches, courtrooms, politics, etc. Ministers have been telling people to vote Bush or Kerry. As a complete, hardcore atheist who only uses the word "Jesus" in reference to action heroes with machine guns, I'm getting sick of being told what to think.

Another thing is this "We're Christian, so we're better than you" attitude. It's really annoying, because they don't seem to realize that being the majority does not automatically make them right in every matter. Then when someone says anything against Christians, they start crying and complain about it.

Sorry if this has already been said or looks like spam, I'm just saying what's on my mind.

For a country that professes to be a country of "religious freedom," we sure don't do a lot of it. Look around you, Christianity is everywhere. Churches, courtrooms, politics, etc. Ministers have been telling people to vote Bush or Kerry. As a complete, hardcore atheist who only uses the word "Jesus" in reference to action heroes with machine guns, I'm getting sick of being told what to think.

Another thing is this "We're Christian, so we're better than you" attitude. It's really annoying, because they don't seem to realize that being the majority does not automatically make them right in every matter. Then when someone says anything against Christians, they start crying and complain about it.

Sorry if this has already been said or looks like spam, I'm just saying what's on my mind.
So what does anarchism have to do with your religious views (you were talking as an “anarchist” when that is traditionally a political standpoint rather then a religious one)

So what does anarchism have to do with your religious views (you were talking as an “anarchist” when that is traditionally a political standpoint rather then a religious one)
:confused:
I don't understand where you're getting anarchy from. What I'm trying to say is that politics and religion are far too close. We need to distance ourselves.

On a side note, I'm a communist, not an anarchist.

:confused:
I don't understand where you're getting anarchy from. What I'm trying to say is that politics and religion are far too close. We need to distance ourselves.

On a side note, I'm a communist, not an anarchist.
My bad ... mis read anti christ ... I apologise (would explain why I was confused)

I agree, everyone has the right to believe what they want. I don't press my faith but rather hold it to my heart. Which is what I am saying, I like many Christians are insulted yet the world turns a blind eye all the while saying "those peskey Christians are whinging again". I don't go up to people and say "Believe in God or die" - nor do I expect people to come up to me and say "What does God think about shaving your ****s?"

Okay - if you hold your religion to your heart you are not one of the "pesky Christians." You are just a Christian.

People here have been telling you that if you are being harassed to lodge a complaint. That is not turning a blind eye. Yes, I know that more often than not it is more beneficial not to lodge a complaint, but that is because of how the system is set up. It has nothing to do with you being a Christian. In some companies anyone lodging a complaint for any reason is going to be given shit or fired.

But quit whining that people bashing you *because of your religion* is the same thing as people bashing your religion.

It sucks that a lot of assholes can't tell the people who worship from the peopole who are trying to force a specific religon down everyone's throat. But if you get attacked for your personal beliefs it is because your attackers are lumping you together with the "pesky Christians." Want to stop it? Speak out against the intolerance in Christianity itself. Clean your own house first.

This is from another thread, but I feel that it should be displayed here. It originated in a thread which was created in response to this one.


Originally Posted by Austrealite
I have no idea why you made a topic like this. It proves you are childish and intolerant to Christians. I have no idea why you hate us or our faith, it’s your loss and you will loose. Christianity has survived hard times, you’re a troll and I find it sad that you sink to this level...


Childish and intolerant? No, my dear, I believe you are talking about yourself, or other 'followers' of your beloved faith. Ever hear of a little thing called the Crusades? How about the Spanish Inquisition? Oh dear, it seems I may have stepped on some Christian toes! Oh no! Now they're going to burn me at the stake! Sound familiar yet? Historically, Christians have been childish and intolerant, unapologetically killing anyone who stood in their way. How many died in the Crusades? The Inquisition? How about the beheadings sanctioned by the Church?

Get over it. No one hates you OR your faith. It is the ignorance and narrow-minded preaching that we hate. Is it not enough that you have churches springing up every two feet in this country, but you have to televangelize,invading our homes through TV, Jehovah's Witnesses have to come to our doors, invading our own personal sanctuaries, and with the increased usage of the internet, forums such as these are infected with your false sensitivity and feigned moral outrage? Avoiding people such as you in an effort to protect our religious freedom, the very FOUNDATION of this country, is most definitely not a loss, and ,for your information, we will NOT lose.

My pagan faith has survived hard times, but I don't hop around throwing it in people's faces. For ages, and still today, anyone who dares to claim that he or she is pagan can be labeled with a multitude of terms that have collected throughout the ages, one of the most common (and, personally, most insulting) being 'heathen'. Do you know who is believed to have come up with this word? Christians. It's a pretty dirty thing to do if you're a religion preaching love to everyone.

Finally, you have no right to go about labeling someone a 'troll' merely because of a difference of opinion. You say we are 'sinking' to this level? No, my dear, it is you who is sinking. No one held a gun to your head, forcing you to read or post in this forum. You felt the need to read our posts and submit a reply. So, my dear, if we are 'trolls', then you are sinking to our level.

If you cannot tell that a person is a christian without asking, then chances are that the person is not a christian. The person may believe in Jesus, they may believe in God, but if their beleif does not affect their life, then they are not christian. What you mention is exactly what Satan wants people to believe ("its ok to believe that stuff, its ok to be a christian, just dont let it affect your life.").

Actually Jesus made a point of saying that believers shouldn't put on a big show. If someone is running around saying "praise the Lord" all day or wearing WWJD t-shirts 24/7 they are doing a lot of what Jesus ragged on the Pharisees for.

Perhaps you mean that you can 'see' by the fact that they uphold morals and charity often associated with Christianity. But even then that does not show that they are Christian. Morality, kindness, and charity are not traits reserved exclusively to Christianity.

This is from another thread, but I feel that it should be displayed here. It originated in a thread which was created in response to this one.




Childish and intolerant? No, my dear, I believe you are talking about yourself, or other 'followers' of your beloved faith. Ever hear of a little thing called the Crusades? How about the Spanish Inquisition? Oh dear, it seems I may have stepped on some Christian toes! Oh no! Now they're going to burn me at the stake! Sound familiar yet? Historically, Christians have been childish and intolerant, unapologetically killing anyone who stood in their way. How many died in the Crusades? The Inquisition? How about the beheadings sanctioned by the Church?

Get over it. No one hates you OR your faith. It is the ignorance and narrow-minded preaching that we hate. Is it not enough that you have churches springing up every two feet in this country, but you have to televangelize,invading our homes through TV, Jehovah's Witnesses have to come to our doors, invading our own personal sanctuaries, and with the increased usage of the internet, forums such as these are infected with your false sensitivity and feigned moral outrage? Avoiding people such as you in an effort to protect our religious freedom, the very FOUNDATION of this country, is most definitely not a loss, and ,for your information, we will NOT lose.

My pagan faith has survived hard times, but I don't hop around throwing it in people's faces. For ages, and still today, anyone who dares to claim that he or she is pagan can be labeled with a multitude of terms that have collected throughout the ages, one of the most common (and, personally, most insulting) being 'heathen'. Do you know who is believed to have come up with this word? Christians. It's a pretty dirty thing to do if you're a religion preaching love to everyone.

Finally, you have no right to go about labeling someone a 'troll' merely because of a difference of opinion. You say we are 'sinking' to this level? No, my dear, it is you who is sinking. No one held a gun to your head, forcing you to read or post in this forum. You felt the need to read our posts and submit a reply. So, my dear, if we are 'trolls', then you are sinking to our level.

Last I checked, I made this tread and thus you are the troll for coming into it and posting your rubbish. And Christianity never sought to teach that we must love EVERYONE. The Laws of the OT still are in use, the 10 commandments are still in use.

And don't refer to me as "my dear" - I'm not your son, your not my father or mother. You are no more wise than me and thus the term is void. You came here and spewed anti Christian retoric. And very un Christian like to bring up the Jehovah's Witnesses - as they are not Witnesses of Jehovah!

Last I checked, I made this tread and thus you are the troll for coming into it and posting your rubbish. And Christianity never sought to teach that we must love EVERYONE. The Laws of the OT still are in use, the 10 commandments are still in use.

And don't refer to me as "my dear" - I'm not your son, your not my father or mother. You are no more wise than me and thus the term is void. You came here and spewed anti Christian retoric. And very un Christian like to bring up the Jehovah's Witnesses - as they are not Witnesses of Jehovah!

Making the thread doesn't make you god of the universe.

that having been said...

YOUR branch of christianity uses the laws of the OT. Though I doubt you follow them. You are a hypocrit, pure and simple. You demand perfection from everyone around you, and when they get mad at you about it you whine and bitch.

Go away little child. At first, I was mildly sympethetic for you. Now? I see that you are lower then me.

Making the thread doesn't make you god of the universe.

that having been said...

YOUR branch of christianity uses the laws of the OT. Though I doubt you follow them. You are a hypocrit, pure and simple. You demand perfection from everyone around you, and when they get mad at you about it you whine and bitch.

Go away little child. At first, I was mildly sympethetic for you. Now? I see that you are lower then me.

I not once used the term "God of the Universe" in reference to myself. And what about not following the laws of the OT. You don't know me, and thus you cannot say such a thing nor call me a hypocrite. I never demanded perfection from anyone and point out where I mentioned any such thing. I just am upset that such anti Christian stuff is rising. You are a liar and are making up crap about me, you have proven that you don't know me yet you still make up such untrue stuff. And don't call me a child, because like I said, you don't know me, you have gone off and made up stuff and posted nothing but rubbish!

I'm catholic and I have noticed that people don't like you for openly talking about the faith.I have not been able to ssend you a private message nor email so this is how I am trying to cantact you.With this post.How can I talk to you privatly

And again, Australia just sits here being like "Eh". We are so unopinionated.

Every where I go I see it, the filth that these anti Christ spread in an attempt to shut us up, to make us stray from the flock. One such instance is at work; I have been there for about 2 months now and have never had a problem with anyone. Once I got asked the question "did you get a **** on the weekend?" I responded that I was Christian and that it was in my view and faith immoral to have sex out of wedlock. Well needless to say after that I have received nothing but insults about my faith. From questions that can be debated with to ones of pure rubbish (I won't post the questions but many are sick)

What really upsets me is that none of them even have the slightest clue of Christianity but bash it as if they know ever detail.

And it hasn't just been like it at work but every where I have been I have seen it. Has it risen in your area lately?

You insult homossexuals for their decisions.. And though i am not anti-christian, any rise in the influence in that religion in the affairs of my country, and in my personal life can put me in very,very, anti christian atitute.

Childish and intolerant? No, my dear, I believe you are talking about yourself, or other 'followers' of your beloved faith. Ever hear of a little thing called the Crusades? How about the Spanish Inquisition? Oh dear, it seems I may have stepped on some Christian toes! Oh no! Now they're going to burn me at the stake! Sound familiar yet? Historically, Christians have been childish and intolerant, unapologetically killing anyone who stood in their way. How many died in the Crusades? The Inquisition? How about the beheadings sanctioned by the Church?


1) The Crusades were teritiorial conflicts, not religious ones. Everyone makes this mistake. Neither side (Europeans or Saracans) had a legitamte claim to the lands they were holding. The Europeans were holding it at the time the Saracans attacked and so the Europeans nautrally fought back

2) Muslims are not exempt from a bad past, they conquered Spain and held it under a brutal heal for many years too. I know you didnt bring up Muslims but my point is that you should not condemn anyone for actions commited by past generations of the same nation. Should I as a Brition be condemened for the colonialist opression of parts of the British Empire? No, because I did not take part.


Get over it. No one hates you OR your faith. It is the ignorance and narrow-minded preaching that we hate. Is it not enough that you have churches springing up every two feet in this country, but you have to televangelize,invading our homes through TV, Jehovah's Witnesses have to come to our doors, invading our own personal sanctuaries, and with the increased usage of the internet, forums such as these are infected with your false sensitivity and feigned moral outrage? Avoiding people such as you in an effort to protect our religious freedom, the very FOUNDATION of this country, is most definitely not a loss, and ,for your information, we will NOT lose.


3) Part of Christian basic belief is to spread the word. Now I too opose some methods that some people use, but you cannot say they are "Invading our own personal sanctuaries" by doing what they have been comanded to do. You dont like it, fine. Simply say "Thank you but I am not interested" in the most polite way you can. Turn off the TV if televanglists are on, kindly take the litriture any JW's offer you and ask them to leave politely.


My pagan faith has survived hard times, but I don't hop around throwing it in people's faces. For ages, and still today, anyone who dares to claim that he or she is pagan can be labeled with a multitude of terms that have collected throughout the ages, one of the most common (and, personally, most insulting) being 'heathen'. Do you know who is believed to have come up with this word? Christians. It's a pretty dirty thing to do if you're a religion preaching love to everyone.


4) I agree no one Christian should insult you because of your faith. But in return, you should not genralise. Not all Christians are like that. In every faith there are those who misuse it to insult and opress others. But dont genralise, else you are as bad as those you claim opress you.

4) I agree no one Christian should insult you because of your faith. But in return, you should not genralise. Not all Christians are like that. In every faith there are those who misuse it to insult and opress others. But dont genralise, else you are as bad as those you claim opress you.

Your religion should have something about gloating and annoyance from over-load of religion as a sin.

You insult homossexuals for their decisions.. And though i am not anti-christian, any rise in the influence in that religion in the affairs of my country, and in my personal life can put me in very,very, anti christian atitute.

Point out one post where I insulted Homosexuals. Yes I am openely against it, but I don't hate them. I hate the Sin, but I don't go and give them crap about it because he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I'm catholic and I have noticed that people don't like you for openly talking about the faith.I have not been able to ssend you a private message nor email so this is how I am trying to cantact you.With this post.How can I talk to you privatly

The thing is at work for instance I don't openly talk about my faith unless the issue comes up. The reason they found out is because they asked what was I doing on the weekend a while back, I was honest and said to the effect of "Not much, going to Church" - then the insults came...

Point out one post where I insulted Homosexuals. Yes I am openely against it, but I don't hate them. I hate the Sin, but I don't go and give them crap about it because he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Anti Christianism rose when fundamentalism did.

I don't like Buhda and I don't like Muhamed.

Muhaned said in the Koran to kill the infidels.

Buhda has kept millions of people from worshipping GOD and sent them to hell.

I would LOVE for the world to be run by the Pope.

I would love for everyone to be a devout catholic.

Then everyone would go to Heaven or at least purgatory.

This is a very CHRISTIAN belief.

The only problem I see with fundamentalists is that they are a little racist and that they are vengeful,the death penalty is a sin.

And that they do not recognize HOLY MOTHER CHURCH,the saints,and Our Lady

In your opinion.

Point out one post where I insulted Homosexuals. Yes I am openely against it, but I don't hate them. I hate the Sin, but I don't go and give them crap about it because he who is without sin cast the first stone.
I'm just finding a link, bear with me.

I don't like Buhda and I don't like Muhamed.


Muhaned said in the Koran to kill the infidels.


Buhda has kept millions of people from worshipping GOD and sent them to hell.



I would LOVE for the world to be run by the Pope.

I would love for everyone to be a devout catholic.

Then everyone would go to Heaven or at least purgatory.

What the hell, your a joke right? LIke a walking talking joke. *looks around* Someone tell me this guys a troll or something. Budha rocks and the Koran is basically the same as the bible with diferent names.

They are right when they tell you to stop whinning. Being Christian you should know that you will be insulted and teased just like jesus was for saying who he was and what he believed.

Stop worrying and reacting to what they think and demonstrate to them how unique Christianity makes you. People will notice this and will wonder whats so great about this faith thats making you do the positive things you do. They may eventually ask you about your faith and thats when you can answer any questions without sounding too overpowering and condescending.

Everybody has a right to believe in what ever they wish. Just remind yourself that at the end of the day as long as you have a good relationship with God, you will be looked after.

People that are bitter towards you have bitterness in their own lives - Dont let that be you!

Point out one post where I insulted Homosexuals. Yes I am openely against it, but I don't hate them. I hate the Sin, but I don't go and give them crap about it because he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I wasnt refering to you in particular, i was refering to "you the christians", which are so quick to condemn homossexuals, prevent their wills, call them sinners and, as you said, are not without sins.

I'm just finding a link, bear with me.

Good for you, I'll wait

I wasnt refering to you in particular, i was refering to "you the christians", which are so quick to condemn homossexuals, prevent their wills, call them sinners and, as you said, are not without sins.

You can believe something is a sin, but love the perpretratiors of said sin. Love sinner, hate sin.

They are right when they tell you to stop whinning. Being Christian you should know that you will be insulted and teased just like jesus was for saying who he was and what he believed.

Stop worrying and reacting to what they think and demonstrate to them how unique Christianity makes you. People will notice this and will wonder whats so great about this faith thats making you do the positive things you do. They may eventually ask you about your faith and thats when you can answer any questions without sounding too overpowering and condescending.

Everybody has a right to believe in what ever they wish. Just remind yourself that at the end of the day as long as you have a good relationship with God, you will be looked after.

People that are bitter towards you have bitterness in their own lives - Dont let that be you!

Cheers mate, you said some good points.

the Koran is basically the same as the bible with diferent names.

You clearly know nothing about either the Bible or the Qu'ran. While there are simmilarites they branch off towards the begining.

I wasnt refering to you in particular, i was refering to "you the christians", which are so quick to condemn homossexuals, prevent their wills, call them sinners and, as you said, are not without sins.

Nice Generalization, but like it was brought up a bit above this post. You can hate the sin, but love the sinner