NationStates Jolt Archive

I know of a number of us Mods that run Linux.

As do I (run Linux).

If you can't get a GUID, then they should likely fall back on the MAC address or ASSIGN a GUID for those OSes on download. I'm sure that they both have a user system with home directories, right? Just make a ".guid" file that's set to read/write from user 0 (root / system).

Of course, THAT would bring up the need to be able to 'su root', but..

My n00b friend just moved in with me, and I think she may have logged on to her nation one time on my computer. She is of course in the UN as am I. I just wanted to make it clear that I am not cheating, and I will make sure that if it did happen, it never happens again.

I know of a number of us Mods that run Linux.

As do I (run Linux).

If you can't get a GUID, then they should likely fall back on the MAC address or ASSIGN a GUID for those OSes on download. I'm sure that they both have a user system with home directories, right? Just make a ".guid" file that's set to read/write from user 0 (root / system).

Of course, THAT would bring up the need to be able to 'su root', but..

Or just be like me and run root all the time...makes it so much easier...lol

I know of a number of us Mods that run Linux.

As do I (run Linux).

If you can't get a GUID, then they should likely fall back on the MAC address or ASSIGN a GUID for those OSes on download. I'm sure that they both have a user system with home directories, right? Just make a ".guid" file that's set to read/write from user 0 (root / system).

Of course, THAT would bring up the need to be able to 'su root', but..

Or just be like me and run root all the time...makes it so much easier...lol

Hahaha, security issues, but yeah. I do that too. It's just less of a hassle, and well, who's going to get through my two hardware firewalls to a box that doesn't run servers? ;)

I have a question. I've got a nation in the UN, let's call it X. Then i resigned from the UN and wanted to transfer membership to Y, and i applied for it. I haven't got an email yet. The problem is that know i want back my UN membership to X because of an emergency. Can i apply for membership for this nation or i'll get deleted? Of course, when i get the email from UN for nation Y i won't click on the link, so i won't have 2 members. Still, will i get deleted?

So...

What is it then? If I have group of friends and who all use the same server, but not the same computer, do we have a problem :?:

I have a question. I've got a nation in the UN, let's call it X. Then i resigned from the UN and wanted to transfer membership to Y, and i applied for it. I haven't got an email yet. The problem is that know i want back my UN membership to X because of an emergency. Can i apply for membership for this nation or i'll get deleted? Of course, when i get the email from UN for nation Y i won't click on the link, so i won't have 2 members. Still, will i get deleted?


Ok, by simply not replying to the email when you get it, no UN membership is applied. So, just ignore the telegram for the nation you dont want in the UN. However, I will warn you here as well, should you be attempting to use this nation Y to grief the Pacific, both your nations will be deleted.

Hello Neutered, i understand what you said about UN. Thanks.

But what's with the second part? I don't understand why you say that? Do you already want to delete one of the nations? Why? :? If i misundertand what you said, please don't get upset and explain to me, because english is not my mother tongue. Thank you. And i'm not "griefing".

Oh and something else. I posted that another thread (locked now) because this one was not working. After posting and presing "View message", i've got an error message saying something about posts that could not be found. I got back to the forum and pressed [14], which was the last page, but it didn't worked, i got the same error. Now i see my post was on page 13, that explains. It was an error.

Dear Game Mods:

It is apparent that you have made a mistake. I have been ejected from the UN because I have more than one nation. I have only had one nation, and I am the only person on this computer that has nationstates.net so it is not because of that.

Hello Neutered, i understand what you said about UN. Thanks.

But what's with the second part? I don't understand why you say that? Do you already want to delete one of the nations? Why? :? If i misundertand what you said, please don't get upset and explain to me, because english is not my mother tongue. Thank you. And i'm not "griefing".

By harassing the Delegate of the Pacific, you are griefing. And while he may not be able to catch your puppet because you move in and out too quickly (which is a form of griefing as well), I can ban your puppet no matter what region it's in. Continued griefing will result in deletion.

Dear Game Mods:

It is apparent that you have made a mistake. I have been ejected from the UN because I have more than one nation. I have only had one nation, and I am the only person on this computer that has nationstates.net so it is not because of that.

Have you ever checked up on your nation with other computers?

I think I did once like 6 weeks ago or so, Im not sure, or was it just the forum of my nation, I forget it was that long.

It may be that someone else has a UN nation with that computer. Find out who you are accused of multiing with.

I have already asked the moderators about this, so far, no response

You'll have to be patient then... an immediate response is unlikely what with all the other things they've got to do.

of course, I figured that, since I only brought it to their attention about 2 hours ago. I am sure Ill find out by tomorrow at whatever time I am online.

I'm confused. Are moderators here to moderate the game or are they here to run the game? Or - worse- both?

I'm confused. Are moderators here to moderate the game or are they here to run the game? Or - worse- both?

It's worse, we do a bit of both, though mainly we moderate. We try to sit back and let the game run without our interference, but usually that isn't possible.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling

I've noticed.

My UN status has been revoked due to reason #3. I share a computer with my BF and I took over his nation which he did not want anymore. I was wondering if I could get my UN status back after his nation dies. He doesn't play NS anymore and he's just going to let his nation die out.
just wondering.

Would it be possible to have Neo Olympus Colisuem and New Olympus Coliseum UN-banned? Note that these two are my puppet nations and I do <b>not</b> want this nation deleted

Would it be possible to have Neo Olympus Colisuem and New Olympus Coliseum UN-banned? Note that these two are my puppet nations and I do <b>not</b> want this nation deleted

Why don't you just resign UN membership? :?

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

Would it be possible to have Neo Olympus Colisuem and New Olympus Coliseum UN-banned? Note that these two are my puppet nations and I do <b>not</b> want this nation deleted

Why don't you just resign UN membership? :?

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

um, maybe because I want to stay in the UN

<<No posts exist for this topic>>

Is this thread damaged ? I can't see the page number 15....

neither can I

:cry: my nation got ejected from the UN for no good reason. I hav no multiple UN nations that i use. You can check the IP address of the computer that i created the nation on to verify this

What if you have more than one nation, but only one in the U.N.? Do you still get kicked out?

What if you have more than one nation, but only one in the U.N.? Do you still get kicked out?

only 1 in the UN is allowed, you may have multiple nations, BUT ONLY 1 UN MEMBER.

Ok, Thanks. 8)

If you are ejected from the U.N. you can't apply again!I think...

:P I got ejected from the UN with my old nation Quatamalestan I dont know why but Im not bothered I have a new UN nation now.UK citizens have a NI number which is similar to a SSN if thats any help.Also if you wanted you could insert a program in a script which prevented multiple accounts totaly but again thats not ideal.Perhaps the only soution is good judgement ie:Who is likely to be region crashing and who is telling the truth for example teo nations in the UN thatjust stick to regional matters and dont try and gain power are probably telling the truth.Where as region crashers would love to have a few extra nations.
Perhaps a squad of Mods with the sole purpose of eliminating UN cheats could do this.If they use their judgement they might prove to be a faire solution :wink:

Prediland (and Yautja state) belong to me, Prediland is in the UN.

My GF has two nations also, Pandrama and Slapntickle.

We share a computer at the moment, and when I get my machine up and running again, we will still be sharing an internet facing IP.

I do not play her nations, she does not play mine.

Is this a violation, and if not, would this post serve to give notice of adherence to the rules before the cheat script picks us up?

Thanks in advance

PReDiToR,
High Chancellor,
The Rogue nation of Prediland.

If you have a UN Nation, and she has an UN Nation, this will show up as being a multi. There is no way the mods can see who is behind the IP. E-mail adresses don't count as beind a different person.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.
The getting help section! (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) (for all your gaming problems)http://www.nationstates.net/forum/templates/subSilver/images/whosonline.gif

...but to those people who use school LANs, like I sometimes do, it may be a concern and worth investigating to see if the LAN uses dynamic or static IP addresses for its connections. Many services, such as some cable modem ones, maintain the same IP for the same computer connection for forever and a day. Some, your IP changes every time you log on.

I can see where this would be a problem... if you logged on as soon as you got home and were assigned IP addy "1" and then logged off... and then another NationStates UN member logged onto the network and was assigned "1" right after you, since you're not using that particular connection.. :?

Hopefully there'll be a way around this and hapless UN members won't be warned or expelled for the shortcomings of their ISPs. :)

And personally, just because some people have problems with these kinds of connections where others don't, I don't see any call to say they're lying, or tell them to shut up. It's a legitimate concern, imho. *quiet glance at Nag Ehgoeg* :roll:

Ah yes I overlooked this. I'm sorry guys :roll:

What if you use public computers?

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: That sucks!!! I got out of the UN, Being the founder and the UN Delegate of my region, and having an alliance with many other Greek territories. Of Course i used friends of mine to help me. I am in this game for a year.... and certainly not giving away my card number. Besides that, i was living in cyprus and now got back to England... Cannot u re-check, and finally understand that the others will now continue to use their countries from Cyprus, where i will be doing so from Newcastle? do i have to re-apply to the UN? Just e-mail me to Christopher.Panayis@ncl.ac.uk

My girlfriend and I have a nation each, can't we both be UN members?

uh,,, yeah, we live toghether, in case you didn't get that :-)

Now that I am concerned about my UN country, which I run mostly from my apartment or from school, my brother's UN country (The Boxed Headstock), and my dad's UN country (IWAD) because my dad and brother run their countries from the same private network at home, I have a small suggestion. Why don't you watch for cheaters as a *combination* of the same IP address and contributing activity? That would help eliminate a lot of the family interactions. Or allow us to have multiple UN nations, but limit it to a number that might be reasonably shared in a family, like 4 or 5. You could even limit the number of these countries that were allowed to be in the same region. Simple enough, right?

A rule is a rule. If they say only one UN member per IP address, then they are not likely to change it for anyone.

It's probably hard enough to enforce as it is.

We check more than just IPs.

You might be okay, but if you are indeed ejected, you know why, and you'll know why that decision is highly unlikely to be reversed.

:cry: my nation got ejected from the UN for no good reason. I hav no multiple UN nations that i use. You can check the IP address of the computer that i created the nation on to verify this

SAME HERE MAN! my other country pimpinia was ejected for the same reason! i feel your pain! that made me mad!

Why does it accidently eject members for no apparent reason :?: Of course you could all be liers disgruntled at being caught out... I'm not going to get a good reply to this am I? :(

Me and my brother both got kicked out of the UN under the accusation of controlling more then one nation.
I do from time to time borrow his computer

Oh, stop whining about having yourself kicked off of the UN.
Its the only solution that is available right now. Do you really want them to scrap that system and just allow people to control the UN by numbers? Its a logical system, and I can sympathize with people who use public computers or share ones with their family or whoever, but there's nothing to be done at the moment. So stop complaining! I know I'm sick of hearing every-single-last-version of the different instances where someone got kicked off, and I'm willing to bet someone else is too. :roll: get over it.

Oh, stop whining about having yourself kicked off of the UN.
Its the only solution that is available right now. Do you really want them to scrap that system and just allow people to control the UN by numbers? Its a logical system, and I can sympathize with people who use public computers or share ones with their family or whoever, but there's nothing to be done at the moment. So stop complaining! I know I'm sick of hearing every-single-last-version of the different instances where someone got kicked off, and I'm willing to bet someone else is too. :roll: get over it.

Hi I'm Kilmortonn's brother 8)

I'm sick of guys like Wakaba :twisted: " Oh, stop whining about bla bla bla :roll: " Wakaba shut the hell up okay.

And to the people behinde NationStates.
I just want to be a part of the UN again.
Thank you :mrgreen:

Oh, stop whining about having yourself kicked off of the UN.
Its the only solution that is available right now. Do you really want them to scrap that system and just allow people to control the UN by numbers? Its a logical system, and I can sympathize with people who use public computers or share ones with their family or whoever, but there's nothing to be done at the moment. So stop complaining! I know I'm sick of hearing every-single-last-version of the different instances where someone got kicked off, and I'm willing to bet someone else is too. :roll: get over it.

Hi I'm Kilmortonn's brother 8)

I'm sick of guys like Wakaba :twisted: " Oh, stop whining about bla bla bla :roll: " Wakaba shot the hell up okay.

And to the people behinde NationStates.
I just want to be a part of the UN again.
Thank you :mrgreen:

*laughs hysterically* "shot the **** up okay."?! You've got to be kidding me! How old are you? thirteen? twelve? Tell ya what. If you're gonna insult me: SPELL IT CORRECTLY. make it worth my time, not the crap you attempted. My Lord, you've made a fool of yourself. When you're insulting someone, even giving an order (thats going to be ignored anyways,) you need to spell correctly. If you can't spell 'shut', then i suggest you go back to kindergarden, AND take your brother with you.

besides that, all i'm asking for... 'Kilmortonn's brother' to do. shut up. it is very tiresome. and i'm sick of it, so if you'll stop cursing at me, maybe you can go comfort your brother. 8) Im sick of people who don't have real opinions because theirs are tainted by familial ties. :roll: grow up. people have opinions that don't need to be derived from lewd language. deal with it. the rest of the world does.
PS. Oh, and don't insult me. I'm a -girl-. (Thank God! I wouldn't want to have any relation to... certain people.)

Too Wakaba

I'm from Denmark so sorry that my english isn't perfect, not eveyone can get an A.

And if your sick of people whining about the game why do you keep reading what they post or why don't you just stop playing like I will after this last post

And by the way " Shut the hell up " isn't cursing.

Ok...got booted from the UN, was sent a telegram that i had more than one nation there...i dont...i have 2 nations on Nationstates, and have never tried to get the other nation...the mighty zormuto, into the UN...I was also threaten with nuclear strikes...not very nice...but i would like you to admit you error(you being Nationstates) and reinstate me, since now the region I am in is left with out a UN rep. Thanks

What about people who use the library computers or internet cafe's? Just wondering if it can distinguish it.

I just had my nation (Restallia) quit the U.N. and signed up this one (Eshen'Shar) after. There won't be any problem there, will there? Restallia's no longer listed as a U.N. nation so I assume there's no waiting period before I can have this nation join?

I do have a couple of questions...

1 - as long as they aren't in the UN (aside from your 1 country), are you allowed to have multiple nations? I didn't see anywhere in the FAQ, anything about not being allowed to have a whole bunch of countries; just that you weren't allowed to have multiple countries in the UN.

2 - I have a LAN set-up at home, but, we have only 1 IP address, 2 computers, now, here's my question, let's say (though it hasn't happened) that the person at the second computer decided to join NationStates, would the detection process be able to determine if there was more than one computer at an IP address, or would this also be the same as people using the same computer?

I do have a couple of questions...

1 - as long as they aren't in the UN (aside from your 1 country), are you allowed to have multiple nations? I didn't see anywhere in the FAQ, anything about not being allowed to have a whole bunch of countries; just that you weren't allowed to have multiple countries in the UN.

2 - I have a LAN set-up at home, but, we have only 1 IP address, 2 computers, now, here's my question, let's say (though it hasn't happened) that the person at the second computer decided to join NationStates, would the detection process be able to determine if there was more than one computer at an IP address, or would this also be the same as people using the same computer?

1. Yes, you are allowed to have multiple nations. Just not multiple UN nations.

2. I dunno

:x I understand the reasons for getting booted however I do share my computer at home with two other people who are playing this game. We each have our own countries. There has got to be something, besides giving you a credit card, that would allow for mutliple players on the same computer. We each have different passwords, and different email addresses, couldn't you confirm if we have only one nation with our email address?

I'm afraid there's nothing that can be done about that, some people have more than one e-mail address after all... either you can take it turns with your buddies on who gets to be a UN nation or you can all use different computers... using the same one for more than one UN nation will come up as a multi and you will get ejected.

you should program your site server to recognize single nations and not computer IP address' so different people who use the same computer for Nation States dont get their nations deleted (ie: school computers), like:

Nation A - Code # 1
Nation B - Code # 2
ETC.

I'm probably missing out on some blatantly obvious point here, but I fail to see the problem with having multiple UN nations is you're not really RPing in any aspect of the game.

Roycelandia has set itself up in it's own region with a work colleague's nation in an effort to compete against each other to see who can outwit the other and create a "better" nation. Now, because there's only two of us, we can't really influence the outcome of the game in any way, even though we're both UN members. (I get to be delegate since I founded the region- woohoo!). We've password protected the region to prevent invasion by troublemakers, but the game is starting to stagnate since we can't really do much in the world at large without more members- which won't happen since no-one has ever heard of our Region.

So, why can't a single player have multiple UN members if they aren't RPing? They can't really affect anything besides making some UN proposals (which have to fall in the same categories as the ones from nations who are RPing and be sensible etc), and I don't see it unbalancing the game for those that are RPing and inflicting their values on the 97% of players who aren't interested in RPing.

Of course, I should probably take cover from the flaming that will now result from this suggestion... :idea:

I'm probably missing out on some blatantly obvious point here, but I fail to see the problem with having multiple UN nations is you're not really RPing in any aspect of the game.

Power in this game is decided on by voting, be it within a region (for delegacy), or with the UN (on proposals). Each UN Nation has one vote. Allowing players to have more than one UN nation means they are allowed to have more votes by merely creating more nations. This means the game would degenerate into people creating hundreds if not thousands of nations merely to be 'in power', and thus destroy a big part of the game: inter-regional conflict / politicking, legal invasions, the entire UN...

Ballotonia

Right, but when 10000 nations vote, having 5 votes belonging to one person won't make a difference in almost all cases. Limiting the number of UN nations related to one computer would be a much better decision than preventing families to participate. If voting on a proposal is extremely close, there could always be an extended debate and revoting process. The multiple nations rule is further limited because voting lasts so long. If I feel strongly about a resolution, I can convince my friends to create nations, join the UN, and vote in my favor. This creates great potential for abuse. Should we limit friendships and word-of-mouth marketing just because these could be used to abuse the system? Of course not. Then why be such hard-asses about multiple countries? It's not like it'd be hard to allow 4-5 UN nations per IP. :roll:

wouldnt it be ok to make ur game to recognize to see if there is any linkidge to accounts say that one un member logs on and then a nother un member logs on straight away on that ip address

Hello,

I have a small network in my home running on a Cable network through an internal router witha built in firewall. I have 5 computers running on it at all times. There are 2 Family members in the house that have just started playing Nation States. We have both just recently applied for UN status. I have been accepted already. My brother has not yet been accepted as he only applied this evening. I am worried that with the IP log and play times tracking we might be tagged as cheaters by the automatic ip tracking system. Is there any way possible to preempt the system and avoid any future hassles because of this tracking?

It would be a shame to be banned from the UN before we have a chance to explore it.

The Free Nation of Wealth Makers

Hello,

I have a small network in my home running on a Cable network through an internal router witha built in firewall. I have 5 computers running on it at all times. There are 2 Family members in the house that have just started playing Nation States. We have both just recently applied for UN status. I have been accepted already. My brother has not yet been accepted as he only applied this evening. I am worried that with the IP log and play times tracking we might be tagged as cheaters by the automatic ip tracking system. Is there any way possible to preempt the system and avoid any future hassles because of this tracking?

It would be a shame to be banned from the UN before we have a chance to explore it.

The Free Nation of Wealth Makers

Q: I wasn't cheating! I only have one UN member nation. Your game got it wrong.
A: This is possible, but unlikely. The game uses four different methods to detect if the same person is operating multiple UN members. These methods include IP address tracking and login pattern detection. If your nation was deleted, the game gathered very strong evidence that it was being operated from the same location as other UN members on multiple occasions.

Q: My friends operate those other UN member nations. We all share the same computer.
A: I'm sorry if that's the case. There is no way for the game to tell how many people are on the other end of a computer. For this reason, breaches of UN rules involving only two members are usually punished with expulsion, not deletion.
:evil:
:tantrum:
Um, sorry, I just like those emoticons.....
so anyway- My Boyfriend and I both have nations, and so whenever I am at his house I check mine and when he is at my house he checks his... So should i not be checking on my country form any other computer then if the chance of it being deleted is so high.....i love my country.

Q: I wasn't cheating! I only have one UN member nation. Your game got it wrong.
A: This is possible, but unlikely. The game uses four different methods to detect if the same person is operating multiple UN members. These methods include IP address tracking and login pattern detection. If your nation was deleted, the game gathered very strong evidence that it was being operated from the same location as other UN members on multiple occasions.

Q: My friends operate those other UN member nations. We all share the same computer.
A: I'm sorry if that's the case. There is no way for the game to tell how many people are on the other end of a computer. For this reason, breaches of UN rules involving only two members are usually punished with expulsion, not deletion.
:evil:
:tantrum:
Um, sorry, I just like those emoticons.....
so anyway- My Boyfriend and I both have nations, and so whenever I am at his house I check mine and when he is at my house he checks his... So should i not be checking on my country form any other computer then if the chance of it being deleted is so high.....i love my country.

Not advisable. There's a very good chance of DEATion if you keep that up.

I like those rules, they are really understandable, But heres the thing, you may notice, yes, I have 2 nations on the UN, this is for one simple reason. I showed my boyfriend this site when he came over to my house, and he signed up and made his own nation, if you dont believe this, look, I have 3 nations, 2 by me, one by her, only one of MY nations is on there, and I'm lucky they declined the other one cause I use the same email adress for everything, just as he uses his email adress for everything. So please, let mine and his nation stay in the UN, I promise those are the only 2 from my computer that will be on there

I showed my boyfriend this site when he came over to my house, and he signed up and made his own nation, if you dont believe this, look, I have 3 nations, 2 by me, one by her

Shouldn't that say him if this is true? 8)

Is there any way that this can be improved? Or a solution?this needs to be improved very much so :x

ok from what you are saying is that you can look at anything we are doing on our computers and probally if someone were to hack into your system then they could just send viruses to everyone that is on here any time they want and there would be nothing we could do about it. Plus it is unfair aspeacially since I have a younger brother that if he were to find this site then he would do that and plus I also think that it is an invation of privasy. (excuse my spelling)

I live in Australia and we don't have SSN just so you know, so that If you did make impossible to have an account without it, you would lose heaps of people :(

[quote="La RendiaUm, sorry, I just like those emoticons.....
so anyway- My Boyfriend and I both have nations, and so whenever I am at his house I check mine and when he is at my house he checks his... So should i not be checking on my country form any other computer then if the chance of it being deleted is so high.....i love my country.

Not advisable. There's a very good chance of DEATion if you keep that up.[/quote]

If all IP addresses are unique, therefore, it shouldn't make a difference which one to check from, unless there are multiple times in a short period in which you logged in from you boyfriend's computer. I mean, I log in from the machines at school all the time, so, I don't see what difference it makes in the choice of login location...

Personally, I like the idea of increasing the limit of how many UN members you can have to aleviate this problem with which family member gets to be in the UN. There could be all kinds of stipulations around it to help keep the power hungry at bay, such as, only 2 UN members per IP address, you aren't allowed to be in the same region, so there is no way to endorse each other and use that as a means of region crashing, and so forth.

Also, is this issue going to be resolved with NS2? I would think that if someone is going to pay their $5-10 a month to play and they have a sibling, spouse, roommate that also plays NS2 and is also paying, they shouldn't be limited as to which features they are allowed to use. Its one thing to decide who gets to be a UN member of a free game, but a completely different story once you start paying.

Just my two cents in a long line of people throwing in their opinions.

I do not understand why i was ejected form the UN. It said that i had another nations in the UN, which i don't! who do i go to to saught this out! :?:

this type of id is not acceptable because not everyone in the world has a cc .

there should be a way to identify a user as one individual. like, say social security number. everyone has that.
beleive it or not, only us citizens have a SSN(social security number) so this wouldn't work. this is an international game my freind. :)


Not to mention that some of us are old/xperienced enough to know not to give SS # to just anyone....

How is it that people have trouble giving out their SSN's but are downright giddy to leave their credit card numbers all over the net? :shock: Personally, I won't leave anything on the net that could in any way be used by those social leeches "hackers" and their ill-formed offspring Identity theives.

lol ok dudes, the only people that can legally request your SSN/SINs are your employer, the government and your bank. NEVER give it to anyone else, huge no no, and i'm pretty sure he was kidding with the CC information... let's use our heads here.

[quote="MunkeeSammich"]Personally, I like the idea of increasing the limit of how many UN members you can have to aleviate this problem with which family member gets to be in the UN. There could be all kinds of stipulations around it to help keep the power hungry at bay, such as, only 2 UN members per IP address, you aren't allowed to be in the same region, so there is no way to endorse each other and use that as a means of region crashing, and so forth.
not a bad idea but there are flaws in there and i don't think many people will give up their private information on the internet...well i wouldn't

Someday, fingerprint scanners will hook up to computers, and we will have the ultimate ID permanently (or so most of us hope) attached to the right thumb! :D

The dorm is behind a firewall so many computers all connect through one IP address. There are a few of us that have Nations is this going to cause problems?

The dorm is behind a firewall so many computers all connect through one IP address. There are a few of us that have Nations is this going to cause problems?

If you have more than one UN nation between you, then it will.
You should decide who's going to get the UN nation between you all.

ok from what you are saying is that you can look at anything we are doing on our computers and probally if someone were to hack into your system then they could just send viruses to everyone that is on here any time they want and there would be nothing we could do about it. Plus it is unfair aspeacially since I have a younger brother that if he were to find this site then he would do that and plus I also think that it is an invation of privasy. (excuse my spelling)

Um. No. They can't monitor our activities anywhere but NationStates, nor can they send us a virus. They monitor the Internet addresses (not physical computers!) that you connect to NS from, and what times you log on, and such.

And any solution, IMHO, should keep in mind people using dialup and other dynamic IP systems. In other words, no straight IP tracking.
And it'd be VERY nice to send a warning before ejection, for the sake of e.g. people at schools who may not realize what they're doing.

If there are 3 UN people at my school, and we all log on at our separate homes as well, what will happen? Will the fact that each of us sometimes uses a totally different IP at different times save us?

And as a final wacky idea, what if you could analyze language and issue voting patterns, for instance, to get an estimate of whether two nations are run by the same person?

We use several methods, and IP addresses are just one of them. This means that we are sometimes able to differentiate users behind firewalls (but not always), and are able to deal with Dial Up users.

Beyond that, I cannot say.


http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling
PGP: 0x0604DF3E

Okay, here's a question for you about the topic at hand. Mmrkuudnia (the regional delegate for Paradoxium) is obviously a UN member as is IdyllWyld (another nation from Paradoxium. Currently, we live in two different houses with a computer in each one. The problem is that I'm going to be moving in with her, taking my computer and connecting the two machines through a router to a cable modem. Is there a way to keep this from ending up on the deletion list for either nation, or will IdyllWyld have to resign from the UN in order to allow Mmrkuudnia to remain in?

That would probably be a good idea. Though it is not guarenteed that you would be mistaken for a multi, the chance is decent.

Well.... FRELL, I say. That bites. :cry:

My main nation, Rebel Spies, was deleted for no apparent reason. I wasn't going against any rules, and I didn't do anything wrong. I was in the middle of invading Zero One, and Rebel Spies got deleted. Can anyone tell me why?

Well I suppose its the only way of doing it.

its not a difficult concept... if you have one ip address, you have one un nation. i dont see anything wrong with this and if you have multiple people using the same machine... simply do things democratically and decide who should represent you all. of course... being a corrupt dictatorship, what do i know about democracy?

also, if you get incorrectly detected as multi-UNing.. live with it. this isnt your site

its not a difficult concept... if you have one ip address, you have one un nation. i dont see anything wrong with this and if you have multiple people using the same machine... simply do things democratically and decide who should represent you all. of course... being a corrupt dictatorship, what do i know about democracy?

also, if you get incorrectly detected as multi-UNing.. live with it. this isnt your site

I don't want this to degenerate into another flame-debate over authority, but don't you think it would be a little... unfair... if they could just delete any nation they wanted and not be challenged?

Although I do suppose the "one IP, one UN" idea makes sense (people with the same IP probably know each other, and would be able to all get together and decide), it'd be very nice to not have to do that. If practical. Which it probably isn't. But we should try to find a way.

Well, the Federation of ThrillSeekers has a large portion of their population that is very adept at technological voodoo. To make this very simple, why not have a 'login key'? Each person could have a floppy/superdisk/pendrive/whatever that holds their "identification". This could be done very simply in javascript, php, etc. Just make sure the authentication process verifies that the person's identity is not stored on a local disk. This would discourage people from having several nations as well. I mean, really, who would bother to sit there and change floppy disks 60 times? Not us.... 8)

Well, the Federation of ThrillSeekers has a large portion of their population that is very adept at technological voodoo. To make this very simple, why not have a 'login key'? Each person could have a floppy/superdisk/pendrive/whatever that holds their "identification". This could be done very simply in javascript, php, etc. Just make sure the authentication process verifies that the person's identity is not stored on a local disk. This would discourage people from having several nations as well. I mean, really, who would bother to sit there and change floppy disks 60 times? Not us.... 8)

There is no (cross-platform, at least) way to detect what type of drive a file is on, and probably no way at all for a website to do so. I'm 99.9% sure this won't work.

Well, I suppose you could use a CGI form with a file submitter, and look at the local file path. But what if the browser doesn't send the local path? How do you distinguish between a hard drive and a CD drive named D: ? What about Mac and Linux users? Where do network drives fit in?

(EDIT: Fixed auto-smiley)

Well, the Federation of ThrillSeekers has a large portion of their population that is very adept at technological voodoo. To make this very simple, why not have a 'login key'? Each person could have a floppy/superdisk/pendrive/whatever that holds their "identification". This could be done very simply in javascript, php, etc. Just make sure the authentication process verifies that the person's identity is not stored on a local disk. This would discourage people from having several nations as well. I mean, really, who would bother to sit there and change floppy disks 60 times? Not us.... 8)

This has to be one of the most involved, complex, and possibly intractable without using Java (or maybe Javascript) and requesting high level access to the machines, solution to what is at worst a minor problem on an Online Free Game.

Not to mention, it would be a horrendous pain to any honest players, require money from all players, be extremely difficult to make secure, and still be relatively easy to avoid for anyone who wants to.

Look, I really mean no insult by this post, but that is a rather ridiculus suggestion. Web security is setup specifically to prevent us from doing such tricks as that.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling

actually I was very impressed that the moderators were able to respond so quickly to my request for an investigation. My mate will likely have to do the same as we didn't realize both of us signing on to the same system would cause a hiccough - that will NOT happen again (lol).

even so considering how many users are on nationstates - it's pretty impressive that they can fix these things at all (let alone respond to them somewhat personally)

This has to be one of the most involved, complex, and possibly intractable without using Java (or maybe Javascript) and requesting high level access to the machines, solution to what is at worst a minor problem on an Online Free Game.

On the other hand, I, for one, don't see how any of my machines giving out a media descriptor constitutes high-level access because I'm telling nationstates.net I'm using a floppy to put my key on. *shrug* People will still have the option not to play, as they do now. It really isn't that complicated, and it's certainly cross-platform. Until Microsoft got their paws on it, that was Java's whole idea, and still is. The entire reason I made the post in the first place was not to freak anybody out over having to do lots of work, it was merely a suggestion to help with the problem at hand.

Quite personally, I feel that all these posts having nothing to do with the thread but simply flaming each other is pretty much useless. Believe me, I took no offense to your remarks about the suggestion.

But seriously, am I the only one that had the inkling that nationstates.net forums is populated by literally thousands of players? And (Deductive Reasoning here) considering that, do you realize that you have thousands of minds upon which to draw suggestions from? And modifications to those suggestions? And people to extract ideas from possibly several other suggestions?

Everybody has always told me that two heads are better than one. How many moderators/game authorities do you have? 10? 15?

Aren't 450,000 minds better than 15? or 20? See my point here? So instead of everybody griping about being kicked from the UN and how pissed off they are and mudslinging other people's personality/writing flaws/etc., why don't we put our heads together and come up with a solution to the problem?

-Dan (danvan@dsvcomputers.com)

P.S. And by the way, how would that be requiring players to pay anything? By clicking yes on a java plugin install? That's the only thing they'd be required to do. And if nationstates.net only requests the media descriptor from the key location, what's the big deal? It's not like I'm giving you my bank account number, it's simply like telling you that I use a bank. Sure, by sending a media descriptor of MFT, that's telling you I run Windows NT, 2000, or XP. But that doesn't tell you what my username and password is, and why would nationstates.net care what my username and password to my local machine was anyway? It would just require integrity and honesty on the part of whoever writes the scripts, because there is bound to be someone playing who can disassemble the script and find them out for attempting to hack players' machines.

This has to be one of the most involved, complex, and possibly intractable without using Java (or maybe Javascript) and requesting high level access to the machines, solution to what is at worst a minor problem on an Online Free Game.

On the other hand, I, for one, don't see how any of my machines giving out a media descriptor constitutes high-level access because I'm telling nationstates.net I'm using a floppy to put my key on.

*shrug* People will still have the option not to play, as they do now. It really isn't that complicated, and it's certainly cross-platform. Until Microsoft got their paws on it, that was Java's whole idea, and still is. The entire reason I made the post in the first place was not to freak anybody out over having to do lots of work, it was merely a suggestion to help with the problem at hand.

Quite personally, I feel that all these posts having nothing to do with the thread but simply flaming each other is pretty much useless. Believe me, I took no offense to your remarks about the suggestion.

But seriously, am I the only one that had the inkling that nationstates.net forums is populated by literally thousands of players? And (Deductive Reasoning here) considering that, do you realize that you have thousands of minds upon which to draw suggestions from? And modifications to those suggestions? And people to extract ideas from possibly several other suggestions?

Everybody has always told me that two heads are better than one. How many moderators/game authorities do you have? 10? 15?

Aren't 450,000 minds better than 15? or 20? See my point here? So instead of everybody griping about being kicked from the UN and how pissed off they are and mudslinging other people's personality/writing flaws/etc., why don't we put our heads together and come up with a solution to the problem?

-Dan (danvan@dsvcomputers.com)

P.S. And by the way, how would that be requiring players to pay anything? By clicking yes on a java plugin install? That's the only thing they'd be required to do. And if nationstates.net only requests the media descriptor from the key location, what's the big deal? It's not like I'm giving you my bank account number, it's simply like telling you that I use a bank. Sure, by sending a media descriptor of MFT, that's telling you I run Windows NT, 2000, or XP. But that doesn't tell you what my username and password is, and why would nationstates.net care what my username and password to my local machine was anyway? It would just require integrity and honesty on the part of whoever writes the scripts, because there is bound to be someone playing who can disassemble the script and find them out for attempting to hack players' machines.

I think it would be a good solution - if there were any way to make it work. How the hell does a website get a media descriptor, which if I'm not mistaken requires low-level disk access? And how does it do it without requiring platform-specific native code?

And I agree that we should try to put our heads together and find a way to fix this. And you've made a good start. And the next part of the process is critiquing it and finding out whether it can be done.

Look, we do take outside suggestions. And we have modified the game. But I can tell you that this one is not going to fly. There are a great many issues involved with it, and I'm not going to outline them all.

As I said before, I'm not offended in the least. Problem-solving (and what seems like arguments to most people) are what I do for a living. No hard feelings, I promise. :D Ok, so let's find a starting point, one that won't be likely to have security problems.

One way might be to have simply a platform-specific request to whatever kernel it uses in the script or plugin. I mean java was designed to be compatible with any platform that has an interpreter installed, so maybe instead of a descriptor byte, maybe it can request something else to build on with the current checking system, such as machine name, domain/workgroup, and username. But now that I think about it, almost all home users who haven't changed it might be stuck with Default for user and MSHOME for workgroup. *L*

Or, let's look at it from a different standpoint - from web browsers... This site uses cookies for an auto-login function. Does it use cookies for anything else? Maybe cookies could be mandatory for owning a nation-state, and there's any number of ways a cookie could be made usable for something of the sort. I know that cookies are a big privacy concern out there, but on the other hand, there are MANY services on the net that require them. And since most are client-side, they're pretty safe to the user.

Another possibility might be hashing the nation's name (are identical names allowed?) and/or e-mail address. I've seen a great many sites and scripts that allow you to browse to a file on your machine and upload a file of your choosing. The drive/path chosen by the user when the cookie (or key file) is made and verified must be the same from then on. That would eliminate the need for a media descriptor or something so specific. The script creates the key, the user decides where to put it, and from then on, keys may only be read from that same location. For single user computers, they can keep their UN key on the hard drive if they wish, because it will never change. For multiuser computers, it can be stored on a floppy/removable drive, and everybody who shares that computer can just put in their "key" and log in. I don't see a point making it a requirement for non-UN members, though. That would even be good for those who had to re-install windows, they can just go back to their nation. And for those who play from work and/or school and home. They'd just have to take their key with them.

Is that last idea possible without being too much security risk on your end or the user's?

I don't see how cookies would work. But the drive-checking idea sounds good. But is it really needed? It's not that much effort for a cloner to swap floppies a few times. And people who access their nations from more than one OS might be angered. (Windows = A:\nation.key, Linux = /mnt/floppy/nation.key)

Well we all know that having more than one UN member nation is against the rules. However, it would allow people like my wife and I to both be UN members, while discouraging people from having enough members to region-crash. I mean, seriously, how many floppies would people make to region-crash? Do you realize how much time that would take to manage 100 UN member nations every day? But it would allow people from school or work to play the game without fear of reprisal, but be exceptionally discouraging to people who just wanted 100 mations to region-crash with. As far as where the key sits, it could be anywhere at all, wherever the user chooses. It's just that the browser plugin script would remember that path and force the user to use that path from then on. That way, they couldn't do, say, c:\nations\nation1 and then c:\nations\nation2, etc. People could still clone, but it would discourage people from having multiples.

It's just that the browser plugin script would remember that path and force the user to use that path from then on. That way, they couldn't do, say, c:\nations\nation1 and then c:\nations\nation2, etc. People could still clone, but it would discourage people from having multiples.

Could you detail this? Do you mean, any given machine would remember where the key has to be?

Ok . . .

Cookies can be forged. Paths can be forged. The only way to get a path to a script (or server) through a browser (and this includes Java) requires requesting high level access from the user. This prevents people from playing on different computers. People can move files around on their harddrive, copy, and modify them. Finally, it isn't worth the effort. We are a free game. How many players do you think we'd have if we implemented any of the security steps that you are suggesting.

Look, I'm sorry, but I'm pulling Tech Modling perogative on this one. I am hereby declaring this idea dead. It will not be considered, and I will not respond to any more posts (or threads) regarding it.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling

Well just for explanation's sake for Alternate Reality (I know you've already declared it dead), here's what I mean:

It wouldn't require high-level access, just a script that asks the user where they want to put their key. There are scripts all over the place (http://php.resourceindex.com/Complete_Scripts/File_Management/File_Uploading/ <- there's a whole mess of 'em if somebody needed help on how to figure it out) that can be used to do this very simply with very low level permissions. Granted, it would take a couple hours work to make it work, but people download files all the time, and there's no security risk besides downloading the file. The file upload script would be used to verify the key, and then the key would be removed from the server's memory when done. The server would never have any idea where they key was kept, it would be a path the user chose and then used from then on, completely client side. Therefore, no security risk.

I agree that this is a free game, and I don't know about other people, but to make it more fair on me (not having to play with cheaters), I'd be more than happy to have a key on my pendrive. The honest people would have no problem with it, it's only the cheaters that would.

But that said, how 'bout someone else coming up with some ideas, maybe some more simple ones that wouldn't require much learning or work on the people having to do it....I can think of all kinds of ideas, if you'd like to hear them, it just depends on what the people responsible for doing the tech work are willing to do. Or maybe the techs could give us some ideas they've had before and post them, and everyone else can help figure out how to make it work... any takers?

And beleive me, I know cookies and paths can be forged. Even the keys themselves could be cracked. The question is, how much work would a person who wants to cheat be willing to do? How long would they want to sit there and create keys for all their countries just to region-crash? Yes, it might take some work on the programmers' end, but it'd take a he** of a lot more on the cheater's end. And quite frankly, I like this game and all, but really, there's no action to it at all. Most people wouldn't fool with cracking codes and forging cookies and forging paths. I think the real reason this idea was declared dead is because someone isn't understanding what I'm talking about (judging from their posts) and is uninterested in getting a clearer image of what I'm talking about before shooting it down.

But in any case, let's see what violet and the other techs and even Max Berry have to say about it. Maybe they could help come up with ideas too.

]Well, I could require you to send me your credit card details to become a UN member. ;)

If you've received a warning and don't have multiple UN member nations, just sit tight. If you get expelled or deleted, there will be an appeal process where I can investigate your situation in more detail and see if there was a mistake.

By "mistake," I mean something like: your nation was operated from the same location as another UN member on only one or two occasions, and never since. Not "my friends come around and use my computer for those nations," as per the above.

Me and my sister both use this computer to play NationStates. So, how will your game tell about that, (My sister usnt in the UN yet)

Ok . . .

Cookies can be forged. Paths can be forged. The only way to get a path to a script (or server) through a browser (and this includes Java) requires requesting high level access from the user. This prevents people from playing on different computers. People can move files around on their harddrive, copy, and modify them. Finally, it isn't worth the effort. We are a free game. How many players do you think we'd have if we implemented any of the security steps that you are suggesting.

Look, I'm sorry, but I'm pulling Tech Modling perogative on this one. I am hereby declaring this idea dead. It will not be considered, and I will not respond to any more posts (or threads) regarding it.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling

And people with more then one OS (like me) on there PC would stir those ideas even more. I use both Windows and Linux on my home PC, and as such, any path thing would cause problems with one OS or the other.

]Q: I wasn't cheating! I only have one UN member nation. Your game got it wrong.
A: This is possible, but unlikely. The game uses four different methods to detect if the same person is operating multiple UN members. These methods include IP address tracking and login pattern detection. If your nation was deleted, the game gathered very strong evidence that it was being operated from the same location as other UN members on multiple occasions.

What if you get two UN emails? I accidently signed-up two nations... but only one became an actual UN Member.

It is illegal to have 2 of your nations in the UN. You only have one as a member, so you are ok. Just dont let your other nation in.

yea the rules for this are pretty gay. You cant have a swastika. Why?? People should run their own countries not other peoples. If their jew then they can go cry to their mommies. But we can have hammer and sickle? Im sorry but these books im reading must be a lie, for some strange reason it says that Stalin killed twice the number as hitler did. We can have the iraq flag??? Saddam is a killer . So we cant have the swastika but we can have hitler's face on our flag? rrriiigghhtt
And im the admins, "Well i dunno"

<a pointless diatribe>

And you know what? By playing this game, you've agreed to all these rules, even if you don't like them.

Oh, and have a warning for flaming. Do it again and you'll be deleted.

Wait this just I think i see a tear on some ones face :lol:

Wait this just I think i see a tear on some ones face :lol:

If I were you, I'd back off NOW.

United - Germany-

You're screwing with the very person that can delete you. You've already been issued a warning for flaming. I suggest you back off before you find your nation no longer there.

Just a warning from a fellow player.

~Bas

United - Germany-

You're screwing with the very person that can delete you. You've already been issued a warning for flaming. I suggest you back off before you find your nation no longer there.

Just a warning from a fellow player.

~Bas

:cry:

In my house we have two computers, and my brother uses one to play nation states, but I use the other, however, we share an ISP or connection.
Will we be deleted or warned for this? Will the program that searches out cheaters see us as one computer or two?

Hey admins. Im quite new to nationstates, and my brother took an interest in to too. He made a piratey nation whilst i had Tonkington. Unaware we both applied for UN Membership and it was granted. His was about 2-3 weeks after mine though. Then next thing i knew was that we both had our UN Membership taken off us. What do you suggest we do about this ? my brother said he is happy not to have UN membership, because he is only a temporary player. regards. Jae - Tonkington

Just a thought, but I want to suggest an alternative.

Since the idea behind having only one country in the UN at any time is so that the duplicate countries don't all endorse the one country, why not just limit one UN nation per player per region? Rather than one UN nation per player in the whole game?

If a player changes regions, they are 'dropped' from the UN but can re-apply.

This way people could play two countries both in the UN, but in different regions altogheter.

Just a thought, if may have been thought of before and rejected, if so please ignore =).

I have two sister who share the same computer as me. Are you telling me that I shouldn't allow them to be UN members cuz it could end up in my getting expelled from the UN?

If that's the case I think that's really sucky.

me and my boyfriend both have are on nations i am in the un and he is not and we have 3 comp. are we going to get kicked off :?:

I'm Curious, why are most of the people in the first page of this thread now 'ex nations'?
And also many of the people violet said were 'cleared' of wrongdoing...

Is there some sort of Conspiracy that no one tells me about?
I'm used to knowing about them.

Because it is the first page of this thread, which was started a very, very long time ago, and nations get deleted after 28 days of inactivity.

Is a network considered "the same computer"? Because I am in a network of computers, and a lot of us play nation ststes here.
I dont want to be accused of cheating,
Iris

Am I at risk of deletion if I use a public computer? I'm sure other people go on too, but I dont know when.

I would like to complain about being ejected from the UN. You claim I have more than one UN Nation. I have one-nation and one-nation only, -this one. I have always abided by UN laws. Nobody else uses my PC for nationstates. It is my opinion that I have been unfairly ejected because of my political beliefs. If you are not going to re-enstate me, at least show some evidence i was cheating, i.e. try and tell me the name of another UN nation I was controlling, as you will be unable to find one.

Freikorp.

I have been ejected from the UN just because I made a proposal that suggested a "radical game mechanics change"? I think the punishment is too hard, why don't you send a warning at the first time and eject only after two or three rule violations? :?

I have been ejected from the UN just because I made a proposal that suggested a "radical game mechanics change"? I think the punishment is too hard, why don't you send a warning at the first time and eject only after two or three rule violations? :?
That was tried and found wanting. IT was far too much work for the UN mods.

Read http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=125833

Is that appeal feature here yet? cuz I was kicked out and I ONLY HAVE 1 nation.

I was just ejected from the UN and I have only one country. I think I know the problem... I use my work computer wich is hooked up to a network. One of my co-workers has a UN country too. I've logged on to see my country on the other computer from time to time.

I normally wouldn't care, but I was the UN delegate for my region. I don't have a home computer, so I can only play this on one of the two computers at my work (that five of us working here share) It's funny that I was kicked out, because I have a strict "no person with more than one country" rule in our region, and I had just ejected someone with two countries earlier today!

I really wish there was a warning about using the same computer posted clearly before. We would have made sure not to play on the same computer. This is my appeal. I hope you grant the country of Jungheat (region of "Oh Boy" ) and the country of Girlbassrocker UN status again soon, for I have done nothing wrong.

Also, now that we are aware of this tactic for weeding out cheaters we wont be logging in to this game on the same computer.

I'm not sure who wrote
Q. I didn't cheat, I only have one UN nation,
but that applies to me too.
I go on to NS mostly only on this computer, though sometimes I go on at school, and sometimes my friend goes on his nation here, and I go on on his computer. However, I still got ejected, and I don't know why.

I'm not sure who wrote
Q. I didn't cheat, I only have one UN nation,
but that applies to me too.
I go on to NS mostly only on this computer, though sometimes I go on at school, and sometimes my friend goes on his nation here, and I go on on his computer. However, I still got ejected, and I don't know why.
You were ejected for proposing a flagrant game mechanics change on FEB 29, according to my records.
I recall sending a telegram saying as much (it would've come up as being from "NationStates Moderators" or something along those lines) at the time.

im a bit concerned about the large numbers of people recently expelled from the UN (as in the last 10 or so minutes) most are from IMP is there a new rule or are these guys just gang-cheating?

I would like to make an appeal. I didn't know letting someone else use my computer to access their nation would lead to this. I'm fairly mad that this aspect of the game was not made clear when starting my nation. I hope that you can look at your records and see that The Holy Empire of Maggie Simpson has only used this computer terminal to access her nation only a few times. I want both The Community of Pakalolo, and The Holy Empire of Maggie Simpson's names to be cleared, and accepted back into the UN. We've both been made to look like cheaters to our friends in the region of Juxtaposition X. So n apology on our regional post board would be nice too. But I'll take what I can get.

Cordially
The Community of Pakalolo

I would like to make an appeal. I didn't know letting someone else use my computer to access their nation would lead to this. I'm fairly mad that this aspect of the game was not made clear when starting my nation. I hope that you can look at your records and see that The Holy Empire of Maggie Simpson has only used this computer terminal to access her nation only a few times. I want both The Community of Pakalolo, and The Holy Empire of Maggie Simpson's names to be cleared, and accepted back into the UN. We've both been made to look like cheaters to our friends in the region of Juxtaposition X. So n apology on our regional post board would be nice too. But I'll take what I can get.

Cordially
The Community of Pakalolo
I don't quite know what you mean about "not being made clear to you". It's in the rules and is quite prominent around the place. I apologise for not informing every single prospective UN member in bold type, but beyond that...

I have more than one nation. Can they all join the UN?
No. You may only have one nation in the UN at any given time. To enforce this, UN member nations must supply an e-mail address.

What if I sneak them in using other e-mail addresses?
First up, don't. This is against the rules, and other people will be annoyed with you when they find out. It's a low, underhand thing to do. And the chances of getting caught are pretty high: the game uses four different methods to detect cheaters.

Nations that rort the UN in this way will be expelled and prevented from re-joining. If you do it with multiple nations, they'll all be deleted, including your main nation. If you're especially annoying, you'll be banned from making any new nations, too. But don't make me do that.

____________________________________________________
So this is what I read on the UN rules page. After reading this again I can see that the reason I was ejected is implied. But it would be nice if you just added a little about letting someone else, who is also a UN nation, use your computer to access their nation. I am a dim person and I do need everything spelled out for me. There are many cheaters out there and it's understandable that you can not bend on your stance to not let me back into the UN. I just wish I didn't have to learn the hard way.

im a bit concerned about the large numbers of people recently expelled from the UN (as in the last 10 or so minutes) most are from IMP is there a new rule or are these guys just gang-cheating?

Oh, let's just say random UN sweeps can turn up some VERY interesting results. With the tasklist caught up, a number of regions got randomly checked over for UN Multies. Just one more duty we do :wink:

http://rpstudios.ian-justman.com/junk/CGgoods/RepProdtheModsig2.JPG
~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~Master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

Is there any way to appeal this.

I know what happenned. My wife and I share a home computer. I have Ethanville, which WAS a UN member and Disaster Area. She had Jodsterland as a UN member, and a dozen other countries.

Is there no chance of rejoining the UN? While it doesn't destroy the game not to be a member, the additional factor was amusing. I don't want to start a new country solely for the purpose of joining.

canadians are nowhere neer as cool as the dutch, but way better than americans by a long stretch!! :D

Now now now, just because our illegal squatter in the oval office is an a$$ doesn't mean all Americans are. :( Although I acknowledge Americans are by and large one of the more arrogant and self-centered groups on the planet. :x Possibly not as much so as the french, but I digress.

I do have a serious issue with the IP tracking thing because of my situation at my school however... everyone is routed through a single IP. :shock: (I wish I was kidding)

reznet.csumb.edu is internally a 10.0.0.0/8 network that's natted through a single (as I understand it) Cisco firewall. I don't take issue with login/browser version/cookie tracking, or any of those, because they don't apply, but litterally IP tracking on this network is useless unless you can see the internal numbers. (and I have a different set yet because I have a consumer router) :P

I'm sure you can figure out which region is run primarily by CSUMB students from the IP tracking thing, and I don't know how many duplicates there are, but on the internal mail system here it looks like we have ~10 players who have identified themselves as having moved to the region.

Is it possible to set an exception in the IP tracking scenario because of this? I'd think this would more benefit the site maintainers than us, as I'm sure we generate a lot of false alarms because of this. :roll:

We are aware of NATs, and are especially careful when evaluating multies that can be traced back to school networks.

I have two nations (My other nation is Jesse From Team Rocket...can I hear people laughing, or is it just the bats outside?) and I'd like them both affected by UN decisions. Would it be possible to allow multiple UN member nations controlled by one person if all accounts but one had all voting rights and endorsing abilties sacrificed?

Could I word that better?

I have two nations (My other nation is Jesse From Team Rocket...can I hear people laughing, or is it just the bats outside?) and I'd like them both affected by UN decisions. Would it be possible to allow multiple UN member nations controlled by one person if all accounts but one had all voting rights and endorsing abilties sacrificed?

Could I word that better?
Well, on the current wording it sounds like some kind of trust system would be required to make certain that someone with 50 nations doesn't sign them all up to the UN and pretend to be 50 different people. As we're constantly reminded, a trust system just doesn't seem to work with the hard-core cheaters out there.

What if you have 1 nation, then you join UN, but you quit, create another nation, and join with that?
That's
1-un
1-quit

So, is it ok?

What if you have 1 nation, then you join UN, but you quit, create another nation, and join with that?
That's
1-un
1-quit

So, is it ok?
As long as the first nation is out of the UN when the second one joins up, there shouldn't be anything wrong with it.

So essentially, because my brother and I occassionally live in the same house we could both be booted out of the UN?? Why don't you just make it so no more than say 2 accounts from the same IP can be UN members? Let's face it - groups of friends and brothers/sisters are most likely to all vote the same way anyway so a single person using up to 2 UN members would only have this same effect. Also, they cannot single-handedly endorse themselves to be regional delegate if they only have 2 member accounts. I suppose I will have to withdraw my UN membership when I arrive home and trust that my brother will vote as I would.

I'm Canadian and had a Social Insurance Number - Of course we aren't supposed to give it out.

This would be a really bad idea. Anyone with your SIN can get everything that they need to conduct identity theft. You do not want to let that happen.

Raptor - Chief Nabob of Raptoristan.

Shouldn't you take more seriously claims of innocence from long term members? I say this because I have been a UN member (and delegate) since 2002 and now someone from my house has joined up and may possibly become a UN member. I don't want my position threatened because I can't afford to live by myself.

You call it unjust I call it ridiculous I am appealing because I do not know where the help page is but my nation Ellandar does not deserve this there is no possible way that Bodhissathvan is the same person no way.

- Ellandar

Okay, for the longest time I have been very careful about the "don't use two nations on the same computer" thing. My brother uses the main computer, and I have always used the old junky one until now.

My old Junky computer has died :cry: (specifically, the hard drive has ceased to function and it is much cheaper to get a new computer (eventually) than it is to replace the hard drive and hire someone to transfer the data).

Now, NationStates claims that they have 4 ways of telling if one person has more than one UN member nation, and I won't bother trying to figure out what they are.

My question is this:

May I use my outstanding NationStates record as an alaby for acessing my account from the same computer that my brother is?

It can easily be proven simply by looking at my current record that I have never (I don't think I have) used the other computer to log into NationStates.

What can I do? It is far too much of a hastle to acess NationStates as I am now...

I wouldn't want to have to quit simply because of the loss of my old computer...

I just wanted to say that some people are just playing NationStates for fun, and this UN deletion device has effectively destroyed an entire happy region of players.
Our ENA region was populated mostly by people using computers at college, and so we would all be accounted for using the same machines at similar times, thence why we were deleted. Me personally, I did have three nations all signed to the UN, 2 of which had managed to get over 500million population and the other never really used the UN, and they were all deleted.
Though I approve of your system and your reasons, I want to point out that I had no intent of cheating with my three nations, I only wanted to play this 'game' and have three different styles of nation (good, bad and ugly) and see how they evolved.
I don't really care for it too much, I was getting kinda bored, but I worry about others who may have been in the same situation and may have lost all of their nations.
If I could ask for one thing, I'd ask for nations 'Neophron', 'The Unreality', 'Hollyoaks' and 'Dreyer' to be reinstated. I would inform each of the players about the rules so they could adjust accordingly.

right so both myself and my roommate got kicked out of the un because we use the same computer. After reading this topic it seems that there is no way we will both be let back in. My question is can you let one of the nations back in so at least one of us can endorse our regional delegate(Bohola, Ireland)? We have been invaded several times and i dont think it is fair for the region to loose two UN members who have played a large role in the region for a while.

right so both myself and my roommate got kicked out of the un because we use the same computer. After reading this topic it seems that there is no way we will both be let back in. My question is can you let one of the nations back in so at least one of us can endorse our regional delegate(Bohola, Ireland)? We have been invaded several times and i dont think it is fair for the region to loose two UN members who have played a large role in the region for a while.

Just create a new nation and give it UN status, that should, and prolly will, work.

If trying to prevent someone with multiple countries from getting exess representation in the UN, what would a credit card help?

I have friends with pockets full of credit cards, so they could still pretend to have multiple nations.

Hey i understand that this needs solving but come on. A social security number is a bad idea. What about just letting people have multiple nations. Think about it realistically. How many nations with un application can one guy have. Would it be anough to actually matter in the long term. If he uses those nations to endorse himself in a region to become UN delegate so what? It's a game. Remember that booting people out of regions for no reason is griefing, that means he can be elimintated. Anyway my Dreyer nation was created to be my democratic side. Not my evil side, that was dreyer. Now all i want is to have my nation back. I wont bother with the UN. It makes little difference in the long run. And my dads nation (Anthony Dreyer: eat today for tommorow we starve) has been elimintaed because i check my nation at home as well. :( . Does this make sense? I would like to have my old nation back if that isn't too much bother. I wont bother with the UN. I'll make my own website where the ENA can make ruling decisions. So how about it. Give people a second chance?

I started playing on nationstates a couple of months ago. My brothers saw nationstates and thaught it was really good and so they joined. Everything was going fine, till last week me and my brothers were kicked out of the UN because we had the same surnames and so the UN thought that it was me with multiple nations, which it wasn't. I've tried joining the UN again but I was sent a telegram telling me that I couldnt join because of past misdeeds (which I didn't do). So could somebody with a bit more technical knowledge of nationstates please tell me how I can correct this and join the UN

by Lakenland

Look guys, rules are rules. The point of electing a Sovereign power is to protect the liberties of its Commonwealth, right? You have to sacrifice a few liberties here and there to be able to enjoy security. If the means and then ends are peace and fairness, not obstruction of libertity, then deal with it, seriously.

Stop your whining. Start yelling at those that ruin it for the rest of us. Also, I opperate on a network at college and so do many of my other friends who also have nations; we have yet to be penalized, yet I do not understand how IP addresses work so whatever.

I completely support the UN in this decission.

:D

Good grief! I knew we couldn't have two nations in the UN, but I, my son, niece, and nephew are all in NS, and all have UN nations - The UN is the most interesting part for us - and we ALL on occasion, use each other's computers!
My son's computer is in another room from mine, but we have the same Internet service, so I guess that'd be the same IP? And sometimes, I use the computer at my sister's house, where my niece and nephew have NS accounts... :cry:

They need the educational value of the UN, so I suppose I'll have to quit. I don't feel that's fair, I think legit email addresses should be able to show that each person is an individual (by legit, I mean from an ISP, not something like Yahoo or Hotmail). I'll also have to talk one of my sister's kids into resigning as well. Bummer!

DRAT!! :cry:

]

this type of id is not acceptable because not everyone in the world has a cc .

there should be a way to identify a user as one individual. like, say social security number. everyone has that.
Heh, my comment that I could verify identities by credit card was a joke. There isn't going to be any requirement for credit cards, social security numbers, or anything else to join the UN. :)


it scary that u had to explain that.

Oh my god thats why i only have one nation and was kicked off because my non existent nation applied to join the un it must have been one of my friends :evil: :evil: :evil:

It probably should be noted in this thread:

As the Moderator who seems most heavily involved in regulating UN Proposals, it is my duty to codify the rules governing proposals. All nations thinking about making proposals at the United Nations should make very certain that they understand this thread before posting their proposal.

The white-haired Enodian delegate rises and addresses the Assembly.
Firstly, I would like to acknowledge the pioneering work of the nation of Reason and Compassion. This nation was the first to attempt a "UN Proposal FAQ" and much of this explanation is based on this FAQ. (original FAQ at http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68349)

To begin with, what purpose does a UN proposal have? Simply put, a UN Proposal is designed to promote a particular political agenda. If it is passed and becomes a Resolution, the statistics of all member nations will be altered in accordance with the Category - NOT the description - of the proposal.
Proposals can and do cover all manner of agendas. However, there are three broad categories of proposal which will always be removed from the queue before they become able to be voted on by the general membership of the United Nations. These three categories are:

1. Suggestions for how to change the game mechanics
2. Proposals in which the category and the description do not match
3. Proposals which are deemed unworthy of UN consideration

Now, to explain these three categories in detail:
Game Mechanics
"We should make it so that all UN Members can vote on proposals before they reach the floor", "We should be able to vote on 2 proposals at once", "The UN should create <multinational organisation>". All of these proposals propose changes to the Game Mechanics governing the running of NationStates.
I cannot stress this enough, You Cannot Play God Here. Your proposal may well be a useful change to the way the game works, and a few changes to the game (ejection of nations from regions, proposal search function) had their genesis in proposals. The bottom line is that they were not adopted because of the successful passage of a proposal, and neither will your suggestion be.

Category and Description not matching
Some proposals which get deleted for this reason are exceedingly Orwellian, most are just disturbing. Simply put, pay attention to your proposal's category and prevent it from being different to the description. A classic example here is the "Human Rights" category. Proposals here are automatically "A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights" - with the key word being "worldwide".
As a result, a proposal saying "we should kill all the gays" (yes, it comes up) listed under "Human Rights" is going to be deleted. If you have to ask why, I'm rather worried, but I'll explain briefly: To quote Brooke Shields, "If you're dead, you've lost a very important part of your life". In other words, a proposal to improve worldwide human rights will not do that if it involves killing off a section of the worldwide humans.

Not Worthy of the UN's Consideration
This is rather a subjective thing and the good news is that it's only used very rarely. A classic example of a proposal which gets deleted under this rule is "We propose that the UN declare war on <nation>." While the role of the real-world UN might involve warfare and the waging thereof, it isn't for this body to fight wars.

In addition to these three rules, there has evolved a considerable body of what may be termed "Case Law" on the issue. The nation of Kandarin has kindly furnished me with a series of principles I have applied over the past months. I will list each one and explain its use in practice:

1. Offensive Proposal
This is a nice and easy one to run through. Again, killing gays or burning Jews is obviously going to fail at this hurdle - no matter what political agenda you might follow.

2. Game Mechanics Proposal
We've been down this street previously. Thankfully, they're becoming slightly less prevalent at the moment. It is important to notice, however, that proposals to repeal other resolutions are Game Mechanics Changes. This is because you are effectively asking for the statistics of your nation to be re-set to what they were before the proposal was passed - given that statistics are a part of the Game Mechanics, that's what you want changed. Also, proposals about the UN not being allowed to infringe on "national sovereignty" are Game Mechanics things as well - clearly the UN can infringe on whatever it wants because the option to make such proposals exists.

3. Joke Proposals
Every now and then someone decides that making a pun about something (usually "The Right to Arm Bears" or "The Right to Bare Arms") would be clever. Beyond the fact that these jokes have appeared at least 25 times each in the proposal queue, the fact that they're not serious proposals will have them deleted.

4. Real-Life Proposals
George W Bush, John Ashcroft, Tony Blair and so on don't exist here. Feel free to argue for or against their actions on the General forum, but don't try to get the UN to sanction or promote them.

5. Duplicate Proposals
Sometimes you'll make the same proposal twice in a row - whether by accident or for your own strange purposes. If this happens, at least one of them gets deleted - more if they're breaking other rules or blatantly spam.

6. Category-VS-Description Clash
In all honesty, Eric Arthur "George Orwell" Blair would be amazed at some of the tortured syntax you guys can come up with to sneak things past the unsuspecting public. Unfortunately, I have some legal training and a good dictionary sitting next to my computer so don't try anything fancy in the fine print. The corollary to this is: always make certain your proposal makes sense grammatically and in terms of spelling - we're not prepared to "translate" bad spelling to see if it makes the proposal work.

So much for the reasoning behind killing off proposals. Allow me also to dedicate a few words to the question of what happens "when Mods attack" over this issue.
First and foremost, the proposal is deleted. Secondly, you will be issued a telegram recommending you read the information on UN Proposals. If you still can't work out where you went wrong, telegram Enodia and enquire - politely - what the problem is. I can't stress enough that you are more likely to receive a sympathetic hearing if you ask "I am unsure what was wrong with my proposal "blablabla", can you please explain it?" instead of "You st00pid Mod. I R TEH 733T HAX0R and I will n00k j00 4 TIHS."
At the same time as this telegram is sent, you will have a "warning" recorded in relation to your nation. The third warning for posting inappropriate proposals will result in your ejection from the UN. If you happen to have two inappropriate proposals found in the same UN sweep, that's 2 warnings - woe betide those who have 3 at the same sweep.

Under certain circumstances you will be removed from the UN earlier. Generally, this punishment is only used for proposals deemed so disgusting that stronger action is mandated. Of course, if you happen to be found out as a multi after being picked up for inappropriate proposals, you will be removed from these chambers before your feet even touch the ground. In addition, nations deemed to be disobeying the mod warning run the risk of being ejected as well - such nations are those who simply re-submit the same proposal after having it explained to them why it is inappropriate. It also goes without saying that any offences in this game are cumulative, ergo someone with previous warnings for spamming who then posts inappropriate proposals is more likely to be ejected.

My apologies for the length of this explanation, but it is an issue which needs clarification. The Assembly is welcome to return to its prior business.

He sits, to a prolonged round of applause as befits the Father of the House.
Addendum: New Schedule of Proposal Offences
There are now two types of Proposal Offences, Minor Offences and Flagrant Offences. 3 Minor Offences will get you removed from the UN, while 1 Flagrant Offence is enough.

Flagrant Offences
1. Radical changes to Game Mechanics - including but not limited to the following: setting up parallel UNs, Security Councils etc; allowing individual nations to decide whether or not to abide by resolutions; repeal proposals or proposals supporting the repeal of past resolutions.
2. Racist or otherwise "bigoted" proposals - including but not limited to the following: advocating the killing of any minority groups or deportation of same to other locales.
3. Other highly offensive proposals - to be decided upon on a case-by-case basis.

Minor Offences
1. Minor game mechanics changes - where not covered above.
2. Incorrect Categorisation of proposal.
3. Proposal not worthy of UN's consideration.
4. Real-world-based proposal.
5. Pathetic joke proposals - including but not limited to "against dihydrogen oxide" and "the right to arm bears".

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=77286

If I have two countries, A and B, can I switch back and forth which nation is a member of the UN? (A starts as a member, withdraws, B joins, later withdraws, A joins again)

Four different methods? How official.

Is there a way to withdraw my application to the UN? just recently read FAQ.

Is there a way to withdraw my application to the UN? just recently read FAQ.

OK, so if my friend and I register on our own computers at home, and we both check up on our nations from time to time later on a shared computer but usually on our own computers, will we be booted from the UN?

This morning I created my first nation. Shortly afterwards I was unhappy with it and since I couldn't delete it I created another one. Unfortunatelt I had already applied to the UN on the 1st one, and then when I created the 2nd one applied again. I didn't realize this would be a problem and I really don't want to have my 2nd nation, the one I intend to use, get deleted.

Is there anything I can do to avoid this?

Harry from Burniferouslovakia

this type of id is not acceptable because not everyone in the world has a cc .

there should be a way to identify a user as one individual. like, say social security number. everyone has that.

Firstly, not everyone does. Secondly, in some countries it would be suicidal to give it out, thirdly, in others, it is illegal to give it out, and fourthly, it destroys the anonymity that can prevail.

This morning I created my first nation. Shortly afterwards I was unhappy with it and since I couldn't delete it I created another one. Unfortunatelt I had already applied to the UN on the 1st one, and then when I created the 2nd one applied again. I didn't realize this would be a problem and I really don't want to have my 2nd nation, the one I intend to use, get deleted.

Is there anything I can do to avoid this?

Harry from Burniferouslovakia

When you get the email for the first one, don't click on the link to validate/confirm your application. However, do so for the other one.

I got ejected. I dont know why. I will fix whatever the problem is. Just how do i get into the UN again. I really need to get back in.

Stangingrad

]Well, I could require you to send me your credit card details to become a UN member. ;)

If you've received a warning and don't have multiple UN member nations, just sit tight. If you get expelled or deleted, there will be an appeal process where I can investigate your situation in more detail and see if there was a mistake.

By "mistake," I mean something like: your nation was operated from the same location as another UN member on only one or two occasions, and never since. Not "my friends come around and use my computer for those nations," as per the above.

I only have one nation, been using only one computer, etc., and this morning I see I got ejected from the UN because i have multiple nations???

I DONT HAVE MULTIPLE NATIONS!

Is there any way to delete a country? I first created one to familiarize myself with the game, then started a new one to work on properly, and no longer need the first one. If it's not possible to do this manually, could an admin contact me or something? I do not want to be subject to expulsion or deletion.

Is there any way to delete a country? I first created one to familiarize myself with the game, then started a new one to work on properly, and no longer need the first one. If it's not possible to do this manually, could an admin contact me or something? I do not want to be subject to expulsion or deletion.

Just don't log into it for 28 days.

Can I please get back into the UN?

My brother and I have both been booted from the UN for alleged multiple UN nations (it isn't true.) :( Is there any hope of geting back into the UN? :?:

My brother and I have both been booted from the UN for alleged multiple UN nations (it isn't true.) :( Is there any hope of geting back into the UN? :?:
If your brother and you access your nations from the same computer, it will show up as a multi. Sorry, that's the rules.

Even if it was two different computers on the same connection, it likely still shows up as multiing. You'll need to decide between the two of you who can have the UN nation.

And it's unlikely the mods will reverse the decision and let you join the UN again, but you can always create another nation to join the UN - just one.

Me and my sister can't both have U.N. nations??!! We don't even usually use the same computer. I used hers once on nationstates to change my flag because mine was taking forever to load the images and hers was faster. The next day we both get messages from our ex-region saying one user can't have two nations in the forum. It's unfair, illogical, and feels like big brother watching you. I though the whole idea of nationstates was that we could create whatever kind of world we wanted for ourselves. Apparently, this U.N. is almost as retarted as the real one. I'm going to start my own region, with the express purpose of ignoring the U.N.'s existence. If your interested in joining this region, telegram Amaz0neea.

yeah i was booted from the UN becuase i was being hacked.(i know this because they sent me a telegram telling me so) i reported it to the mods and nothing has happened and that was a week ago! hows that for "FAIR"?

yeah i was booted from the UN becuase i was being hacked.(i know this because they sent me a telegram telling me so) i reported it to the mods and nothing has happened and that was a week ago! hows that for "FAIR"?

Wow... a whole week ago.

Perhaps you don't realise, but there's only two people who can absolutely verify if "hacking" took place, and even then it's not terribly likely.

uh huh, and who are these two "people", is one of them you? are they as cold hearted as all the mods seem to be?

and yeah, a whole god damn week ago. they could of atleast had the decency to telegram me saying f-off so i woudnt be left waiting and waiting.

I have (or had) only one UN nation. Period. I was very scrupulous about it. And I get kicked for multi's anyhow?

(United Nations Intelligence Committee
Received: 3 hours ago This nation has been determined to be in breach of UN rules, which allow you to only have one nation in the UN at any given time. It has thus been ejected and barred from re-joining.

Please note this is the most lenient punishment. Further breaches will be punished with nuclear strikes against all offending nations, destroying them.

If you wish to appeal this decision, please contact the game moderators via the Help page. )

I have (or had) only one UN nation. Period. I was very scrupulous about it. And I get kicked for multi's anyhow?

(United Nations Intelligence Committee
Received: 3 hours ago This nation has been determined to be in breach of UN rules, which allow you to only have one nation in the UN at any given time. It has thus been ejected and barred from re-joining.

Please note this is the most lenient punishment. Further breaches will be punished with nuclear strikes against all offending nations, destroying them.

If you wish to appeal this decision, please contact the game moderators via the Help page. )

I only had one nation. Yes, I did try to repeal a resolution, but I did not know that it was not allowed, as I thought this UN was like the real UN. My apologies. I would like to be re-instated back into the UN please.

I have (or had) only one UN nation. Period. I was very scrupulous about it. And I get kicked for multi's anyhow?

(United Nations Intelligence Committee
Received: 3 hours ago This nation has been determined to be in breach of UN rules, which allow you to only have one nation in the UN at any given time. It has thus been ejected and barred from re-joining.

Please note this is the most lenient punishment. Further breaches will be punished with nuclear strikes against all offending nations, destroying them.

If you wish to appeal this decision, please contact the game moderators via the Help page. )

I only had one nation. Yes, I did try to repeal a resolution, but I did not know that it was not allowed, as I thought this UN was like the real UN. My apologies. I would like to be re-instated back into the UN please.

I was booted from the UN just recently with the moderators citing that I had 2 UN nations. My personal computer is my own and nobody logs onto it. I only have 1 nation in the UN and a second one used for test purposes, such as learning what happens if i pick different choices in my issues. At one point, I would log in on a daily basis at a school computer, where somebody else may have also created a UN nation. I got the standard telegram about 14 hours ago, and i had only logged in yesterday after around 2 weeks of inactivity. I mean, WHY?? Is it because I also have a test nation who isn't in the UN? I've been playing like this for months. I realize that none of you moderators even give a care about this, so my post is probably in vain. If you do care though, well, I want some answers. If I knew what methods you used to catch the violators (which you would never tell me), then i could tell you what you did wrong. Absolutely nobody has access to my computer. Anyone who tries gets a nice "surprise" from me.

I can see why you booted my friends who had made several UN nations to take over other regions with. WHY exactly do i have to suffer even though I warned the morons not to do it? They even tried to get me to join, but I was trying to preserve my delegatal status. Besides, I'm way too liberal to do stuff like that anyway!

/obviously bitter about it

At one point, I would log in on a daily basis at a school computer, where somebody else may have also created a UN nation.

If you ever log in under two nations, regardless of whether you know it or not, scans will show that you're a UN multi.

<--- not a mod.

You were right. The school has the same gateway, so everyone who logged in there lost their UN privileges.

I have a UN nation that I play with. My 8 year old has one that I use as a learning tool. You mean, I have to choose whether I get full access to the game or whether the lesson I had planned around this is complete?

I understand that you don't want users trying to use multiple nations to make a UN resolution go their way. But there must be SOME way to grant both of us UN status. If I have to I'll drop one of them, but can I then drop hers at the end of the lesson and then get mine back?

I have a UN nation that I play with. My 8 year old has one that I use as a learning tool. You mean, I have to choose whether I get full access to the game or whether the lesson I had planned around this is complete?

I understand that you don't want users trying to use multiple nations to make a UN resolution go their way. But there must be SOME way to grant both of us UN status. If I have to I'll drop one of them, but can I then drop hers at the end of the lesson and then get mine back?
your case is simple. all you have to do is resign from the UN the nation you need UN membership the least. then when you have finished with the other nation in the UN, resign on that nation and then reapply for joining on the first one and be a happy UN member.

or you can use a different computer. or you can just keep doing that hoping not to get caught. or you can follow my advice but still get booted for multiple accounts.

your case is simple. all you have to do is resign from the UN the nation you need UN membership the least. then when you have finished with the other nation in the UN, resign on that nation and then reapply for joining on the first one and be a happy UN member.

or you can use a different computer. or you can just keep doing that hoping not to get caught. or you can follow my advice but still get booted for multiple accounts.

Then I'll just delete one of the accounts completely and let her do her learning...

Thanks for responding!

Please Help. The other day I cancelled my UN membership from one of my nations. Later that night, I attempted to transfer my UN status back to my main nation 'Cu Mara'. The next day, I received this message:

*United Nations
Received: unknown "Unforunately, after due consideration, the UN has been forced to reject your application to become a UN member. This is because your nation has the same e-mail address as another UN member country. You may only have one nation in the UN at any one time."

I waited a bit, thinking that this was sent in error, as I had no UN member country - having cancelled it the previous evening. I wondered if possibly the cancellation had not been detected, as of yet. I have since made several attempts to regain UN status, even using another nation of mine... to no avail. I am also not receiving reply messages when I make these attempts. I have played this game for a long time and have never had any problems, nor have I ever attempted to do anything against the rules. I am hoping that this is just a glitch and that I have not been inadvertently exiled from the UN for good. Any ideas?

Apologies for the double-post, but please disregard my above message. The problem was that I did not receive the "You have been accepted.." message [TG]. However, when I checked my e-mail, I did have the activation message. I am sorry if anyone wasted their time on this.

Hmmm.

[violet], have you ever considered changing the cheat detection system a bit?

When an internet packet is routed (AFAIK), the MAC address of the Ethernet Adapter that sent the packet is still sent out to the server, before it is brought back to the router which sends it to the IP.

I could be wrong here, but wouldn't that (MAC detection) be more reliable than IP detection?



Edit: Something else you could do, now that I think of it, is have players download a small executable that they have to use to authenticate with the server, which gets the GUID (Globally Unique ID) from the Windows registry. Now I realize that Linux and Mac users would be kicked in the arse for this, but it could alleviate 95% of the problems anyway, don't you think?


This is not True. If one is behind a Pix firewall, or a Proxy server, or any Linux FireWall or Linksys box, the mac address is of the Firewall / Proxy server. Only the Proxy / Firewall knows the True Mac address and true IP address of the original Requestor...

']The United Nations is getting much tougher on people who break the "one player, one UN member nation" rule. If you have been ejected from the UN, warned, or deleted, this explains why.

Q: I didn't know it was against the rules to have multiple UN member nations.
A: It is mentioned in the FAQ (see: "United Nations"). Also, when you receive your invitation e-mail from the UN, it clearly spells out the penalties for breaching this rule. Not paying attention to this is not an excuse.

Q: I wasn't cheating! I only have one UN member nation. Your game got it wrong.
A: This is possible, but unlikely. The game uses four different methods to detect if the same person is operating multiple UN members. These methods include IP address tracking and login pattern detection. If your nation was deleted, the game gathered very strong evidence that it was being operated from the same location as other UN members on multiple occasions.

Q: My friends operate those other UN member nations. We all share the same computer.
A: I'm sorry if that's the case. There is no way for the game to tell how many people are on the other end of a computer. For this reason, breaches of UN rules involving only two members are usually punished with expulsion, not deletion.

However, please note this important point: we cannot take your word on how many people are really behind your computer. This is not because you are untrustworthy, it's simply that otherwise there is no way to enforce the UN rules.

Q: But that's not fair!
A: True, and again, I'm sorry if you and your friends have been punished unjustly. However, this is the closest we can come to fair. If we accepted people's explanations that they were using a public computer with their friends, we would have to let people create as many UN nations as they like. This would destroy the whole point of the UN.

The line has to be drawn somewhere, and thus, fair or not, the rule must stand.

Well, that's interesting...I'll just...walk away, now. Yeah, and I'll just--ARE YOU MAX BARRY OR NOT?

Me and my brother share this computer and I am going off to college soon. After I leave will he be able to join the UN?

Me and my brother share this computer and I am going off to college soon. After I leave will he be able to join the UN?

I'd give it a week or two, but probably yes - just make sure you don't use your UN nation from that computer if you're home for vacations.

Short answer to Luska:
Theoretically, your husband and yourself could come up as being "the same person". Given your scenario, I'd suggest that's more than likely in a purely IP sense.
One remedy would be to simply let everyone know on this thread what the name of your husband's nation is. With any luck, it would find its way up the chain of command before anyone gets ready to delete/UN ban you or your husband.

but what if someone who is planning to create a second UN nation does the same thing?

sorry if someone had already answered your question

Sorry to bother you but I know of someone who is breaking the ediquette flag rule, I just met him his country is called something like The Meat, and normally I'm okay with abnormality, but his(or her) flag is just offensive!!!Please look into my claims at least, sorry to have wasted your time,
from,
Narota,evil nation of doom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111 :mp5: :gundge:

Sorry to bother you but I know of someone who is breaking the ediquette flag rule, I just met him his country is called something like The Meat, and normally I'm okay with abnormality, but his(or her) flag is just offensive!!!Please look into my claims at least, sorry to have wasted your time,
from,
Narota,evil nation of doom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111 :mp5: :gundge:

This is a case for the Getting Help page (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help).

Hey, I am a former UN delegate of a fairly small region, and I have already gotten kicked out for having multiple accounts on one IP address. Since only one UN nation acctully belongs to me, is it alright if I am allowed back in the UN, since my brother and sister are not as into it as I am. Also kicked out was my friend, whos nation is called Spratt. He is almost never over, and the one time he was, happened to be right before everyone was kicked out. He should also be let back in. If you IP scan him, it will come up as having a ton of logins from a different IP then my own. So, could myself and him be let back in?
(btw, if you do IP scan him, it will show up as mabye having one from Fuasita, my sisters account. I made it, then gave it to her, because she liked it, and I liked Catrasta much better.) If you decide not to let me back in the UN, that is alright, but at least let Spratt back in.

Oh, also, I know that there are a lot of other nations from this IP address, none where ever UN nations, but they all belong to me, except Sanadun and Fuasita, my brothers nation, and my sisters nation.

Hello! I haven't read this entire thread, so I don't know if my question has an obvious answer, but I'll ask it now anyway: ;)

I have four nations. One of them was a UN member, but I have cancelled its UN membership. How long should I wait before having one of my other nations join the UN?

I think I gave up my UN membership two days ago (not really sure, it might have been longer). I've reapplied with another nation twice since then, and both times I received a notice that I couldn't join as I already had a nation in the UN. But today, without trying yet for a third time, I found a notice in my email saying that my application had been accepted. If I click the link to confirm my nation's entry to the UN, do I run the risk of getting booted?

Hi me and my siter both had UN nations (the Militarism) and (Salica) they were kicked out and banned My question is there any chance that one of them could rejoin or if not could one of my other regions join

neither can but one could make a new nation and join not both

cheers for that!!

So I cant jion the UN because my brother is in it?

if you use the same comp you are correct

That doesnt seem fair. Surly there is another way to do it?

Yeah, so could I rejoin the UN, and not my sister or brother? We already got booted, but could one of us rejoin?

You can't rejoin with any nation that got booted, but if you create another one or already have a puppet, you can join with that nation.

In my experience, whatever excuse you can come up with, there's little point arguing it. The game mods cant determine the just from the cheating sods. Like a fool i never read the manual for anything, and usually toss it aside feeling smug before getting whatever is infront of me horribly wrong. This being no exception, about a year or so ago i tried to use 2 UN nations, both with unfortunate names, in different regions. It wasnt for military advantage, as raiding wasnt an established thing back then, or for promoting myself as delegate, as they were in different regions. After a few weeks i was booted with both of them, much to my self righteous lament. I only later realised that id done something wrong, and 'under hand' . Seems fair now, only those Mods had a sneaky way of rubbing it in. The region i founded was before 'founders' came along, so i had no powers, other than my delegation, which was stripped from me unceremoniously. Brooding darkly for the next few days lead to most of the other nations to leave.

In short- dont do multis. Even if you dont know the rules like i didnt. It always ends in tears, or at least a fleeting indignation.

Is there any way of cancelling a UN application. I applied to join the UN with one account, but then decided I didn't like that account. So I made a new one, planning on leaving the other one to gather dust and, eventually, rot. Or whatever happens to stuff like that. I applied with the second to join the UN, so now I have two pending applications for the UN, one of which I don't want, and I don't want my current account to be banned. So, what can I do?

just dont click the link for the nation you dont want

I am using 2 nations, not in the same region, but one is in the UN and the other has applied - does this matter? I'm not really sure...

I am using 2 nations, not in the same region, but one is in the UN and the other has applied - does this matter? I'm not really sure...
as long as only one is in the un at a time then no it wont each play/computer/ip/ect.. is alowed to have one and only one un nation

just dont click the link for the nation you dont want

I only got one email through saying my application was successful and to click a link to confirm, and it was for the country I don't want to join. For the one I did want to join, I got a memo saying that the application was declined, as I already had a UN nation registered under the email address (i.e. the nation I recieved the email from, but didn't click the link). Do I just need to wait for the first country to die so it isn't registered any more, or is there another solution.

I only got one email through saying my application was successful and to click a link to confirm, and it was for the country I don't want to join. For the one I did want to join, I got a memo saying that the application was declined, as I already had a UN nation registered under the email address (i.e. the nation I recieved the email from, but didn't click the link). Do I just need to wait for the first country to die so it isn't registered any more, or is there another solution.
just wait the first link(the one you dont want) will go bad within 3-7 days.
then retry
also your nation dose not have to die tg me i will explain

Alright. Heres a new problem for the game. I could just be nitpicking but this does need to be highlighted with regards to this aspect of the game.

My nation was ejected to the UN for a small reason. I re applied wth another nation and have moved on from the original problem. however something seems to be wrong with this.
Surely the ejection from the UN was because of a reason the moderators deemed fit. Therefore im not allowed to re apply with the nation in question, but i am clearly allowed to apply with another nation. It seems to me to defeat the purpose of ejection when you are simply allowed to rejoin under a different name. It would be like police saying to a criminal that they are allowed to go free because they changed their name, even if not their evil criminal ways. This seems a bit weird to me. Anyone care to shed their opinion on the issue. I understand that it can be different for different situations.

small screw ups dont result in un ban usally
it takes multies or large blatent rules violation or ignoring warnigs

Hi! I'm a rogue banned nation for Proposal Rule violation. I want to know a thing: my banned state is for ever or for a period? I mean, I can re-join the UN? When?

Hi! I'm a rogue banned nation for Proposal Rule violation. I want to know a thing: my banned state is for ever or for a period? I mean, I can re-join the UN? When?
are you un banned or was just thant nation kicked out
in the first case i dont think you will ever get back in
in the second create a new nation and it can join
in either case the ejected nation will never get back in

are you un banned or was just thant nation kicked out
in the first case i dont think you will ever get back in
in the second create a new nation and it can join
in either case the ejected nation will never get back in

I was banned in order to having proposed 1st may as workers' day. Ok, Im a pariah.

I was banned in order to having proposed 1st may as workers' day. Ok, Im a pariah.
i dont follow above statment but i hope i answerd your question

My nation was ejected to the UN for a small reason.As explained in the first thread you started, you were ejected for three inappropriate proposals. That's SOP.

I re applied wth another nation and have moved on from the original problem. however something seems to be wrong with this.Nope, that's the way it works. The nation was punished, not the player. Should the player be a major problem, then more drastic steps are taken. In the grand scheme of things, bad proposals are low on the list of "sins", which is why there's a "3 strikes" rule, as opposed to the usual 2.

Now, if you had been a UN Multi, well... that would likely result in much more permanent measures.

I want to get ejected from the UN. It seems silly, and pointless.

Is there a way to un-UN myself, or would it be better just break the rules and get kickd out on purpose?

Go to the UN page. At the top there is a button labeled "Resign".

The nation The Leone Family was ejected from the UN and deleted for UN rules violations. He swears up and down he only had one nation in the UN. Is there a chance this was a mistake?

The nation The Leone Family was ejected from the UN and deleted for UN rules violations. He swears up and down he only had one nation in the UN. Is there a chance this was a mistake?
repost that in a new thread in moderation
aslo he should be the on asking

The nation The Leone Family was ejected from the UN and deleted for UN rules violations. He swears up and down he only had one nation in the UN. Is there a chance this was a mistake?
Be aware that you can get kicked from the UN for submitting illegal proposals as well. Criteria are variable - see this post (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=5224569&postcount=1) for details. That should probably be added to the first post.

']The United Nations is getting much tougher on people who break the "one player, one UN member nation" rule. If you have been ejected from the UN, warned, or deleted, this explains why.

Q: I didn't know it was against the rules to have multiple UN member nations.
A: It is mentioned in the FAQ (see: "United Nations"). Also, when you receive your invitation e-mail from the UN, it clearly spells out the penalties for breaching this rule. Not paying attention to this is not an excuse.

Q: I wasn't cheating! I only have one UN member nation. Your game got it wrong.
A: This is possible, but unlikely. The game uses four different methods to detect if the same person is operating multiple UN members. These methods include IP address tracking and login pattern detection. If your nation was deleted, the game gathered very strong evidence that it was being operated from the same location as other UN members on multiple occasions.

Q: My friends operate those other UN member nations. We all share the same computer.
A: I'm sorry if that's the case. There is no way for the game to tell how many people are on the other end of a computer. For this reason, breaches of UN rules involving only two members are usually punished with expulsion, not deletion.

However, please note this important point: we cannot take your word on how many people are really behind your computer. This is not because you are untrustworthy, it's simply that otherwise there is no way to enforce the UN rules.

Q: But that's not fair!
A: True, and again, I'm sorry if you and your friends have been punished unjustly. However, this is the closest we can come to fair. If we accepted people's explanations that they were using a public computer with their friends, we would have to let people create as many UN nations as they like. This would destroy the whole point of the UN.

The line has to be drawn somewhere, and thus, fair or not, the rule must stand.Well, all the kids in my school, use the schools computers, and so now, i probably cant even join my nation on my computer? Thats just stupid, u just at least let us join on our on computer (u would know from a different ip address.)

Well, all the kids in my school, use the schools computers, and so now, i probably cant even join my nation on my computer? Thats just stupid, u just at least let us join on our on computer (u would know from a different ip address.)
All you need to do to guarantee no problems is not log on to NationStates from school. I'm not sure I'm reading this right, but it sounds like you have a home computer. You can join the UN on that computer. When you go to the school computer, you can do anything at all except logon to NS. That way, NationStates has no way at all to tell that you use that computer.

It's possible you can log in from school - they do give consideration to sites that can clearly be identified as schools. Still, better safe than sorry. Play NationStates at home, do schoolwork at school.

All you need to do to guarantee no problems is not log on to NationStates from school. I'm not sure I'm reading this right, but it sounds like you have a home computer. You can join the UN on that computer. When you go to the school computer, you can do anything at all except logon to NS. That way, NationStates has no way at all to tell that you use that computer.

It's possible you can log in from school - they do give consideration to sites that can clearly be identified as schools. Still, better safe than sorry. Play NationStates at home, do schoolwork at school.
to clarify you can log a non un nation in on any computer even if others use it for there un and non un nations

i never had that problem. As soon as the school saw it was non educational they made you unable to access the website during breaktime. What an oppressive regime...

']Well, I could require you to send me your credit card details to become a UN member. ;)

If you've received a warning and don't have multiple UN member nations, just sit tight. If you get expelled or deleted, there will be an appeal process where I can investigate your situation in more detail and see if there was a mistake.

By "mistake," I mean something like: your nation was operated from the same location as another UN member on only one or two occasions, and never since. Not "my friends come around and use my computer for those nations," as per the above.

Could you please review my situation? It would be greatly appreciated and I will be more careful from now on if I am re-admited and the decision reversed thus allowing me to have UN status again.

could something like using a computer that shares an internet connection with another computer be the reason for me being kicked off? I found out that the other person who uses this computer doesn't have a UN nation but their roommate who has a laptop does, they have a router for internet, its a high speed connection.

could something like using a computer that shares an internet connection with another computer be the reason for me being kicked off? I found out that the other person who uses this computer doesn't have a UN nation but their roommate who has a laptop does, they have a router for internet, its a high speed connection.
i've hered this before depending on the router setting yes it could be
which is why my wife dosn't have a un nation

beleive it or not, only us citizens have a SSN(social security number) so this wouldn't work. this is an international game my freind. :)


I wouldn't post my ssn. the UN is not worth that with the amount of identity thefts out there.

I don't know if this has been asked before, but does the IP tracker distinguish between computers on a network, for example, If me and my friend's IP is xx.xx.xx.xx, but i am on 10.0.0.x and he is on 10.0.0.y, will nationstates see these as different computers, or as the same overall system?

Only my 'friend' (for friend, read father whom I'm embarrased to admit I introduced to the game) tried to join the UN, although i think he forgot to respond to the message that time. Nontheless, if he joins again, it might be an issue.

does the IP tracker distinguish between computers on a network
I think it would depend on how the network is routed. On a corporate or school network, the internal IP is likely to be passed through relatively intact. On a home network with a simple cable router/gateway, your machine's IP address is likely to be 192.168.0.xxx or 192.168.100.xxx. This would then pass through to your ISP's range of IP addresses, and all machines connected through that cable or DSL modem will typically show the same ISP-based address rather than your internal address.Consequently, it's probably best to not have multiple UN nations on machines that share a common cable or DSL modem. Better safe than sorry.

I don't think Admin can reveal more than that without giving too many hints as to how they track machines, but I'd surely welcome expansion.

Hea,

We play this game on the comps in our libraary, and half of our region (the talia region), just got kicked out of the un. What can we do about this?

thx,

dan

p.s

I dont hang on here so can some1 e-mail me at harryguy082589(at)comcast(dot)net with the response. Thx in advance.

p.p.s

Just started reading Jenifer Goverment, very good

playing from the same IP as another UN nation does will always most definitally get you kicked out of the UN (library computers=same IP). There is no way to tell if everybody was a different person, or you are all the same. Your best bet would either be to not be in the UN, or make new nations, and never log into your nations from the same IP (same network).

So, am I right to assume you can have any number of nations in this game, provided that only 1 is in the UN?
I know a few people who have multiple nations in the UN who would like to rectify this if possible, so any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

you got it right any number of nations is fine as long as only one is in the un

I know a few people who have multiple nations in the UN who would like to rectify this if possible, so any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

You'll want to report these violations via the Getting Help (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) page.

th what i think he ment was they made a mistake and they want to fix it

I've just got the the rule violation telegram, probably because I use a school network most of the time. Is there any way i can fix this?

I was ejected from the UN for having more than 2 nations but this is totally not true. I only have one nation, mine. I do happen to know that someone else in my region was attempting it, but I didnt do anything...what grounds do you have? If my email was used, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!! This means someone is using my email unautherized. My email is awk109@aol.com you can also telegram me on NS.

Thank you.

Alexz Inc

I've just got the the rule violation telegram, probably because I use a school network most of the time. Is there any way i can fix this?

There's not much you can do. Unfortunately, you can only have one UN nation per computer. Period.

I was ejected from the UN for having more than 2 nations but this is totally not true. I only have one nation, mine.

The mods can only rely on their check system and short of meeting you in person and deteremining that you are not a UN multi, there is nothing you can say or do to prove otherwise.

I do happen to know that someone else in my region was attempting it, but I didnt do anything...what grounds do you have?

Report it via the Getting Help Page (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help).

If my email was used, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!! This means someone is using my email unautherized.

The UN multi scan is comprised of four different types of checks; trust me, e-mail is the least of your concerns when being checked.

The UN multi scan is comprised of four different types of checks; trust me, e-mail is the least of your concerns when being checked.

Is it a security breach to tell me how you diteirmend that I had multiple nations? One of my friends was at my house alone earlier, and if he created it on my computer (thus my IP was detected) I need to go yell at him. I really dont care (well, I do, but not as much) about HOW you are saying this. I know I didnt, so I am going to (in the real world) go yell at the person I suspect if you can just give me the way you detirmend my ejection.

The founder of my region, as well as two other active community members, were just ejected from the UN at the same time unexpectadly. Ive contacted and talked to two of the parties. Both denied ever having more that 1 nation in UN. Both have not recently used a public network to log into their nations. Also, neither had ever recieved a warning that they had multiple UN nations. However, that is what seems to be the reason they were told they were ejected.


EVEN MORE STRANGE: both recieved telegrams from nations:

hey, hobbes_xantha. Check out this website: www.iwalton.com

it was from oleosewn452 .

I warn u not to click on the link as i suspect it has virus or something; i clicked on it and got to a ad page and i am now going to do a virus or adware scan of my computer.

I smell something not good going on. As for the third party - i have not contacted them yet.

Just so everyone knows, i am not angry at Nationstates or the mods as i believe this ejection was not their fault.

The founder of my region, as well as two other active community members, were just ejected from the UN at the same time unexpectadly. Ive contacted and talked to two of the parties. Both denied ever having more that 1 nation in UN. Both have not recently used a public network to log into their nations.
This sort of thing probably should be asked in the moderation forum. I'm not sure how often a moderator wanders through this thread. If none respond, you may want to ask this in the moderation forum.

Also, neither had ever recieved a warning that they had multiple UN nations. However, that is what seems to be the reason they were told they were ejected.
If UN multis are detected, there is no warning. The nation is ejected from the UN. Players are allowed to sign up another nation to the UN if their first nation was ejected, as long as the moderators did not say they were banned from the UN. It's probably best to see what a moderator says how they were detected as multis if they decide to sign up to the UN again. It is always possible that their ejection was a mistake, but usually the initial mod ruling stands.

EVEN MORE STRANGE: both recieved telegrams from nations:

it was from oleosewn452 .

I warn u not to click on the link as i suspect it has virus or something; i clicked on it and got to a ad page and i am now going to do a virus or adware scan of my computer.

I smell something not good going on. As for the third party - i have not contacted them yet.
NationStates is being attacked by a spammer. Refer to here (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=385635) for more information. If the nation that sent this telegram is not already a former nation, do not delete the telegram, and report it on the getting help (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/-1/page=help) page.

Is it a security breach to tell me how you diteirmend that I had multiple nations?

Yes.

Thank you so much for answering my questions. I thought that the spam message was in some way connected to the ejection since because both nations had gotten it that were ejected and even though i am in same region i didn't get it. But i will post in moderation forum. Thanks again for your helpfullness.

Am I allowed to create a new nation and put that into the UN?

Am I allowed to create a new nation and put that into the UN?

If you've had a nation ejected, you can create a new nation and apply with that one.

My 2 brothers use the same computer as me! Isn't there any wayI can prove that?