NationStates Jolt Archive

quick question: why am i sixth? and why am i nine places ahead of TBF? or have i missed something?

yes i know that was three questions :P

quick question: why am i sixth? and why am i nine places ahead of TBF? or have i missed something?

yes i know that was three questions :P

You have missed nothing

It's part of the new ranking system I'm going to be testing for WC11, if it doesn't pan out then we try out the next system and so on till we get the best one. You get bonus points for the quantity of RPing you did in the WC10 thread and WC10 losers thread, thereby moving you up the rankings a bit. With the current formula though you shouldn't see that much difference between the number 1 ranked and the number 34 ranked.

It's part of the new ranking system I'm going to be testing for WC11, if it doesn't pan out then we try out the next system and so on till we get the best one. You get bonus points for the quantity of RPing you did in the WC10 thread and WC10 losers thread, thereby moving you up the rankings a bit. With the current formula though you shouldn't see that much difference between the number 1 ranked and the number 34 ranked.

hmm, fair enough, tho being ranked 6th makes me feel kinda... dirty... cos Audioslavia suck at football :)

meh, its your world cup, but i dont like the TnUI system as much as the Brazillico one, unless this is the Brazillico one and ive missed something (yes, i still feel as if ive missed something...)

p.s. happy new year. you stuck indoors as well? :/

In order to fix the WC Formula, I'm gonna be running some Simulations. I'm gonna post the final tables after qualification for transparency.

Sim 1

[code:1:79c82aa6aa]
Group 1
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Liverpool England 14 8 5 1 22 6 16 29
NASTIC 2 14 7 4 3 25 7 18 25
Belmorian Scandinavia 14 5 4 5 19 20 -1 19
Busby 14 4 6 4 13 15 -2 18
Lemmitania 14 4 5 5 15 15 0 17
Iansisle 14 4 5 5 15 18 -3 17
Avenging Altos 14 2 4 8 13 22 -9 10
Alex The Tall 14 3 1 10 14 33 -19 10

Group 2
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Snub Nose 38 14 8 6 0 28 6 22 30
Kaze Progressa 14 5 7 2 17 7 10 22
New Montreal States 14 5 5 4 14 18 -4 20
Squornshelous 14 5 3 6 19 13 6 18
One Blue Dot 14 5 3 6 19 28 -9 18
The Tree Mountains 14 5 1 8 12 25 -13 16
Antaeus Rising 14 4 3 7 14 15 -1 15
Pavesia 14 3 6 5 13 24 -11 15

Group 3
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Oglethorpia 14 11 2 1 23 6 17 35
Keyshona 14 9 1 4 22 13 9 28
Gesamtkuntswerk 14 7 2 5 19 15 4 23
Eauz 14 7 1 6 18 17 1 22
The Belmore Family 14 6 3 5 14 14 0 21
Zeronia 14 6 2 6 13 18 -5 20
Peter Panarchy 14 4 2 8 13 23 -10 14
Creedence Clearwater 14 3 1 10 12 28 -16 10

Group 4
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Bedistan 14 10 2 2 26 10 16 32
Morawny 14 6 5 3 24 10 14 23
Anti-Nazis 14 7 2 5 23 14 9 23
Mattigool 14 5 3 6 13 25 -12 18
Monkwearmouth 14 4 4 6 17 24 -7 16
Eaglet 14 3 4 7 17 24 -7 13
Cermania 14 4 1 9 17 31 -14 13
Lanky dude 14 3 3 8 20 19 1 12

Group 5
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Spaam 14 10 2 2 22 14 8 32
Rejistania 14 10 1 3 29 14 15 31
Giant Zucchini 14 6 5 3 19 10 9 23
Kravoli 14 6 5 3 17 14 3 23
Athamasha 14 4 3 7 12 21 -9 15
Exetonia 14 3 4 7 12 22 -10 13
Lynnwoode 14 2 6 6 18 28 -10 12
Zinkoland 14 2 4 8 14 20 -6 10

Group 6
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Kerla 14 12 2 0 27 9 18 38
Audioslavia 14 8 4 2 20 7 13 28
The Lowland Clans 14 5 3 6 15 14 1 18
Oddslavo 14 4 4 6 16 18 -2 16
The Weegies 14 3 6 5 14 14 0 15
Cockbill Street 14 3 6 5 14 16 -2 15
East-Germany 14 3 4 7 12 25 -13 13
Timway 14 2 3 9 7 22 -15 9

Group 7
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Ravenspire 14 10 3 1 30 3 27 33
Lubistan 14 7 2 5 21 20 1 23
Tranquillitis 14 6 4 4 17 16 1 22
Big Butts 14 4 7 3 22 18 4 19
Sliponia 14 4 5 5 18 20 -2 17
Belarussian States 14 5 0 9 21 35 -14 15
Ravea 14 4 2 8 15 26 -11 14
Jeruselem 14 3 3 8 15 21 -6 12

Group 8
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Kingsford 14 12 1 1 35 7 28 37
Dark Outcasts 14 9 3 2 22 7 15 30
Svecia 14 8 0 6 20 11 9 24
Belmorian Foxworthia 14 6 2 6 10 23 -13 20
Praying2God 14 6 1 7 15 22 -7 19
SterlingIce 14 3 3 8 18 20 -2 12
Newcuba 14 3 3 8 18 20 -2 12
KOR3A 14 2 1 11 9 37 -28 7

Group 9
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Ariddia 14 8 5 1 24 11 13 29
Brazillico 14 7 3 4 18 13 5 24
Defari 14 7 2 5 23 10 13 23
Pablicosta 14 7 1 6 21 20 1 22
Tony mag 14 4 4 6 15 17 -2 16
Vozvyshennost 14 4 4 6 12 22 -10 16
Stella and E 14 4 3 7 16 22 -6 15
Ptolomy 14 0 6 8 6 20 -14 6

Group 10
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Europa Brittania 14 9 3 2 20 7 13 30
Tanah Burung 14 8 4 2 28 12 16 28
EL CID THE HERO 14 7 4 3 21 16 5 25
East Spaam 14 8 1 5 19 14 5 25
NEWI Cefn Druids 14 6 3 5 16 18 -2 21
Gmlac 14 4 4 6 14 21 -7 16
Dual supporters 14 4 2 8 7 23 -16 14
Shonar Bangla 14 2 3 9 11 25 -14 9

Group 11
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Akbarland 14 9 3 2 24 14 10 30
Nikea 14 8 2 4 24 14 10 26
Commerce Heights 14 5 4 5 18 20 -2 19
Aquilla 14 5 3 6 22 19 3 18
Blood Devourers 14 6 0 8 17 22 -5 18
God Squad 14 4 4 6 16 19 -3 16
Oilermania 14 4 3 7 16 22 -6 15
Artemisia Absentia 14 4 3 7 17 24 -7 15

Group 12
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Halfassedstates 14 8 3 3 21 8 13 27
Runaway Moose 14 7 5 2 19 7 12 26
One Red Dot 14 7 5 2 19 9 10 26
Dennisov 14 7 4 3 17 9 8 25
Western pie makers 14 4 5 5 13 21 -8 17
Beestings 14 4 3 7 12 29 -17 15
Ice Reavers 14 4 1 9 16 24 -8 13
Dead Man 14 2 4 8 15 25 -10 10
[/code:1:79c82aa6aa]

These tables are for testing purposes only.

You forgot about racing (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=109754).

Racing added.

Sim 2

[code:1:3408680dd4]
Group 1
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Lemmitania 14 9 2 3 27 10 17 29
Timway 14 9 2 3 16 12 4 29
Gesamtkuntswerk 14 8 2 4 27 11 16 26
Dennisov 14 7 5 2 17 7 10 26
Dead Man 14 5 1 8 15 24 -9 16
Gmlac 14 5 1 8 13 29 -16 16
The Tree Mountains 14 2 3 9 9 24 -15 9
Keyshona 14 2 2 10 16 23 -7 8

Group 2
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Snub Nose 38 14 10 2 2 26 7 19 32
Aquilla 14 9 0 5 24 10 14 27
Sliponia 14 7 3 4 28 16 12 24
NEWI Cefn Druids 14 5 2 7 17 28 -11 17
Jeruselem 14 5 0 9 18 27 -9 15
Athamasha 14 4 2 8 15 28 -13 14
East-Germany 14 3 4 7 19 22 -3 13
Dual supporters 14 3 3 8 20 29 -9 12

Group 3
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Liverpool England 14 7 5 2 21 8 13 26
Oddslavo 14 6 6 2 18 11 7 24
Oglethorpia 14 6 6 2 14 7 7 24
Brazillico 14 6 3 5 15 17 -2 21
Zinkoland 14 5 6 3 11 13 -2 21
Eauz 14 4 8 2 21 13 8 20
Avenging Altos 14 3 3 8 11 26 -15 12
Western pie makers 14 1 5 8 12 28 -16 8

Group 4
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Bedistan 14 9 5 0 19 7 12 32
Dark Outcasts 14 5 7 2 19 14 5 22
Commerce Heights 14 5 5 4 15 13 2 20
Spaam 14 6 2 6 15 17 -2 20
Tranquillitis 14 4 7 3 16 12 4 19
Kerla 14 4 6 4 20 16 4 18
Belmorian Scandinavia 14 4 5 5 12 15 -3 17
One Blue Dot 14 2 1 11 5 27 -22 7

Group 5
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Giant Zucchini 14 9 4 1 21 7 14 31
NASTIC 2 14 9 2 3 19 10 9 29
The Lowland Clans 14 7 4 3 16 9 7 25
Akbarland 14 7 3 4 15 11 4 24
Morawny 14 7 1 6 18 12 6 22
Belarussian States 14 3 2 9 14 26 -12 11
Ice Reavers 14 3 0 11 13 26 -13 9
Pablicosta 14 2 2 10 8 23 -15 8

Group 6
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Audioslavia 14 11 1 2 28 12 16 34
Tanah Burung 14 8 3 3 20 7 13 27
Kravoli 14 6 2 6 11 15 -4 20
Pavesia 14 6 1 7 12 18 -6 19
SterlingIce 14 6 0 8 13 20 -7 18
Monkwearmouth 14 5 1 8 11 29 -18 16
Iansisle 14 4 3 7 21 12 9 15
Squornshelous 14 4 3 7 17 20 -3 15

Group 7
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Ravenspire 14 8 5 1 23 7 16 29
Antaeus Rising 14 7 6 1 21 7 14 27
Big Butts 14 7 4 3 15 13 2 25
Cockbill Street 14 6 5 3 20 16 4 23
Oilermania 14 5 4 5 11 15 -4 19
Beestings 14 4 3 7 18 29 -11 15
Lynnwoode 14 2 3 9 17 30 -13 9
Peter Panarchy 14 1 4 9 14 22 -8 7

Group 8
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Kingsford 14 8 3 3 22 10 12 27
Anti-Nazis 14 7 5 2 22 13 9 26
God Squad 14 5 5 4 14 15 -1 20
Rejistania 14 6 1 7 17 16 1 19
The Belmore Family 14 5 3 6 19 15 4 18
Eaglet 14 5 2 7 11 21 -10 17
Kaze Progressa 14 4 2 8 14 13 1 14
Ravea 14 2 3 9 10 26 -16 9

Group 9
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Ariddia 14 9 3 2 26 7 19 30
Busby 14 8 4 2 26 18 8 28
Zeronia 14 8 1 5 25 19 6 25
KOR3A 14 5 3 6 16 26 -10 18
Vozvyshennost 14 5 2 7 21 30 -9 17
Mattigool 14 4 4 6 24 26 -2 16
Tony mag 14 3 5 6 22 27 -5 14
Cermania 14 2 4 8 23 30 -7 10

Group 10
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Europa Brittania 14 11 0 3 22 9 13 33
Runaway Moose 14 9 2 3 22 9 13 29
EL CID THE HERO 14 7 4 3 22 22 0 25
New Montreal States 14 5 4 5 23 10 13 19
Blood Devourers 14 5 2 7 14 27 -13 17
Ptolomy 14 4 3 7 15 26 -11 15
Newcuba 14 3 3 8 18 27 -9 12
Creedence Clearwater 14 3 2 9 19 25 -6 11

Group 11
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Nikea 14 9 4 1 29 10 19 31
Lanky dude 14 9 0 5 29 11 18 27
One Red Dot 14 6 6 2 21 12 9 24
The Weegies 14 6 5 3 21 15 6 23
Defari 14 5 2 7 23 24 -1 17
Shonar Bangla 14 4 2 8 14 28 -14 14
Exetonia 14 3 2 9 13 30 -17 11
Praying2God 14 2 3 9 10 30 -20 9

Group 12
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Halfassedstates 14 11 1 2 23 8 15 34
Svecia 14 10 1 3 23 6 17 31
East Spaam 14 7 1 6 15 21 -6 22
Alex The Tall 14 5 4 5 20 19 1 19
Belmorian Foxworthia 14 5 3 6 16 21 -5 18
Stella and E 14 5 2 7 16 21 -5 17
Artemisia Absentia 14 3 3 8 21 27 -6 12
Lubistan 14 3 3 8 17 28 -11 12
[/code:1:3408680dd4]

Sim 3

[code:1:1a40c5f671]
Group 1
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
SterlingIce 14 7 5 2 18 11 7 26
Lemmitania 14 6 4 4 17 10 7 22
The Weegies 14 6 4 4 16 13 3 22
Antaeus Rising 14 5 5 4 13 14 -1 20
Belarussian States 14 5 4 5 16 19 -3 19
Dark Outcasts 14 3 6 5 16 15 1 15
Brazillico 14 1 10 3 9 14 -5 13
Zeronia 14 3 4 7 12 21 -9 13

Group 2
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Dennisov 14 10 1 3 17 6 11 31
Snub Nose 38 14 7 3 4 15 10 5 24
Creedence Clearwater 14 7 2 5 18 16 2 23
Kaze Progressa 14 7 1 6 14 12 2 22
Svecia 14 6 3 5 18 13 5 21
Busby 14 3 6 5 15 12 3 15
Eaglet 14 4 0 10 13 26 -13 12
Ptolomy 14 3 2 9 11 26 -15 11

Group 3
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Oglethorpia 14 11 1 2 26 11 15 34
Oddslavo 14 8 2 4 24 14 10 26
Big Butts 14 8 1 5 18 16 2 25
Squornshelous 14 6 3 5 22 17 5 21
Kravoli 14 6 2 6 20 19 1 20
The Tree Mountains 14 6 0 8 17 29 -12 18
Western pie makers 14 4 1 9 14 27 -13 13
Avenging Altos 14 3 2 9 17 25 -8 11

Group 4
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
New Montreal States 14 9 2 3 12 7 5 29
Bedistan 14 7 3 4 18 13 5 24
Lanky dude 14 7 2 5 13 14 -1 23
The Belmore Family 14 6 4 4 14 8 6 22
Belmorian Scandinavia 14 7 1 6 15 11 4 22
Tranquillitis 14 4 4 6 12 14 -2 16
God Squad 14 3 3 8 12 19 -7 12
Cermania 14 2 1 11 14 24 -10 7

Group 5
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Giant Zucchini 14 11 2 1 26 5 21 35
Dead Man 14 7 4 3 16 18 -2 25
Gesamtkuntswerk 14 5 6 3 18 18 0 21
Defari 14 6 2 6 21 14 7 20
Blood Devourers 14 5 4 5 32 28 4 19
Lynnwoode 14 4 3 7 15 26 -11 15
Gmlac 14 4 2 8 20 27 -7 14
Exetonia 14 4 1 9 13 25 -12 13

Group 6
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Liverpool England 14 10 0 4 26 7 19 30
Pavesia 14 8 2 4 24 17 7 26
Audioslavia 14 8 1 5 20 11 9 25
Spaam 14 7 3 4 15 13 2 24
The Lowland Clans 14 7 1 6 18 20 -2 22
Akbarland 14 6 2 6 14 18 -4 20
Oilermania 14 3 4 7 11 28 -17 13
One Blue Dot 14 3 3 8 14 28 -14 12

Group 7
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Ravenspire 14 9 2 3 22 8 14 29
Athamasha 14 6 5 3 22 20 2 23
Jeruselem 14 7 2 5 23 22 1 23
Anti-Nazis 14 5 5 4 13 12 1 20
Artemisia Absentia 14 6 2 6 23 31 -8 20
Tony mag 14 4 4 6 24 26 -2 16
Alex The Tall 14 3 6 5 18 17 1 15
Mattigool 14 3 4 7 18 27 -9 13

Group 8
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Kingsford 14 9 2 3 25 9 16 29
East Spaam 14 8 4 2 23 11 12 28
Iansisle 14 6 5 3 15 15 0 23
NASTIC 2 14 5 6 3 17 10 7 21
Praying2God 14 6 3 5 18 21 -3 21
Eauz 14 4 1 9 18 18 0 13
KOR3A 14 3 3 8 8 23 -15 12
Belmorian Foxworthia 14 2 2 10 12 29 -17 8

Group 9
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Aquilla 14 7 4 3 22 8 14 25
Ariddia 14 7 4 3 23 11 12 25
Cockbill Street 14 6 6 2 21 9 12 24
Sliponia 14 5 7 2 19 18 1 22
One Red Dot 14 5 5 4 15 13 2 20
Stella and E 14 5 2 7 16 25 -9 17
EL CID THE HERO 14 3 1 10 9 22 -13 10
Vozvyshennost 14 2 3 9 8 27 -19 9

Group 10
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Timway 14 9 3 2 23 14 9 30
Europa Brittania 14 7 5 2 30 11 19 26
Dual supporters 14 8 1 5 26 18 8 25
Kerla 14 5 5 4 26 14 12 20
Monkwearmouth 14 4 5 5 16 19 -3 17
Newcuba 14 4 3 7 16 28 -12 15
Ice Reavers 14 2 3 9 19 38 -19 9
NEWI Cefn Druids 14 1 5 8 12 26 -14 8

Group 11
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Zinkoland 14 11 2 1 22 10 12 35
Keyshona 14 7 2 5 26 16 10 23
Morawny 14 7 2 5 22 16 6 23
Nikea 14 6 5 3 15 12 3 23
Peter Panarchy 14 4 3 7 20 22 -2 15
Shonar Bangla 14 2 4 8 12 19 -7 10
East-Germany 14 3 1 10 15 29 -14 10
Pablicosta 14 2 3 9 19 27 -8 9

Group 12
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Commerce Heights 14 9 4 1 21 10 11 31
Rejistania 14 7 4 3 21 15 6 25
Runaway Moose 14 7 4 3 16 12 4 25
Halfassedstates 14 6 4 4 17 14 3 22
Tanah Burung 14 5 5 4 21 13 8 20
Lubistan 14 5 2 7 16 18 -2 17
Ravea 14 4 1 9 9 30 -21 13
Beestings 14 4 0 10 12 21 -9 12
[/code:1:1a40c5f671]

Sim 4

[code:1:b00f951e0e]
Group 1
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Lemmitania 14 9 3 2 23 9 14 30
Aquilla 14 8 3 3 15 10 5 27
Lanky dude 14 7 3 4 15 10 5 24
Runaway Moose 14 5 4 5 13 13 0 19
Eauz 14 5 3 6 16 18 -2 18
Dual supporters 14 3 4 7 10 16 -6 13
Creedence Clearwater 14 3 3 8 14 22 -8 12
Akbarland 14 3 3 8 10 18 -8 12

Group 2
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Spaam 14 8 5 1 30 12 18 29
Zinkoland 14 8 5 1 20 15 5 29
Snub Nose 38 14 8 1 5 23 10 13 25
Belmorian Scandinavia 14 7 3 4 23 15 8 24
Western pie makers 14 4 3 7 14 27 -13 15
Artemisia Absentia 14 3 5 6 24 24 0 14
Stella and E 14 2 4 8 16 30 -14 10
Belarussian States 14 1 4 9 14 31 -17 7

Group 3
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Busby 14 9 3 2 25 14 11 30
Oglethorpia 14 8 5 1 20 5 15 29
East Spaam 14 8 2 4 16 16 0 26
Antaeus Rising 14 7 2 5 20 12 8 23
Mattigool 14 4 2 8 16 22 -6 14
Brazillico 14 3 4 7 13 21 -8 13
East-Germany 14 3 2 9 15 18 -3 11
Monkwearmouth 14 3 2 9 9 26 -17 11

Group 4
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Iansisle 14 10 3 1 24 8 16 33
Bedistan 14 10 1 3 31 8 23 31
Kaze Progressa 14 9 1 4 23 13 10 28
Rejistania 14 7 2 5 23 14 9 23
Pablicosta 14 4 3 7 16 27 -11 15
Jeruselem 14 4 3 7 12 26 -14 15
Belmorian Foxworthia 14 3 4 7 9 26 -17 13
Tony mag 14 3 3 8 16 32 -16 12

Group 5
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
One Red Dot 14 9 0 5 28 17 11 27
Anti-Nazis 14 8 1 5 21 14 7 25
The Belmore Family 14 6 4 4 25 16 9 22
SterlingIce 14 6 2 6 22 24 -2 20
Giant Zucchini 14 5 2 7 13 16 -3 17
Avenging Altos 14 5 1 8 17 23 -6 16
Dark Outcasts 14 3 3 8 14 17 -3 12
Zeronia 14 3 3 8 15 28 -13 12

Group 6
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Cockbill Street 14 10 1 3 28 12 16 31
Audioslavia 14 8 3 3 24 5 19 27
Kravoli 14 8 1 5 22 15 7 25
Peter Panarchy 14 6 1 7 22 26 -4 19
God Squad 14 5 3 6 18 19 -1 18
Lubistan 14 5 2 7 14 24 -10 17
Shonar Bangla 14 3 4 7 11 28 -17 13
Praying2God 14 3 3 8 14 24 -10 12

Group 7
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Svecia 14 11 1 2 21 15 6 34
Ravenspire 14 10 2 2 28 10 18 32
Ptolomy 14 7 3 4 24 19 5 24
Oddslavo 14 5 5 4 21 15 6 20
EL CID THE HERO 14 5 5 4 16 13 3 20
Alex The Tall 14 5 3 6 20 29 -9 18
Vozvyshennost 14 4 3 7 19 27 -8 15
KOR3A 14 1 2 11 7 28 -21 5

Group 8
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Kingsford 14 9 4 1 19 6 13 31
NASTIC 2 14 7 1 6 22 10 12 22
Defari 14 6 4 4 20 20 0 22
Morawny 14 5 3 6 21 13 8 18
Eaglet 14 5 3 6 19 16 3 18
Exetonia 14 5 2 7 12 35 -23 17
Tanah Burung 14 3 7 4 20 14 6 16
Blood Devourers 14 3 2 9 9 28 -19 11

Group 9
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Ariddia 14 8 5 1 20 4 16 29
Gesamtkuntswerk 14 8 1 5 24 15 9 25
Big Butts 14 7 4 3 22 16 6 25
Sliponia 14 6 5 3 21 19 2 23
Commerce Heights 14 5 6 3 14 10 4 21
Pavesia 14 4 4 6 15 22 -7 16
Beestings 14 3 3 8 10 18 -8 12
Athamasha 14 1 4 9 13 35 -22 7

Group 10
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Europa Brittania 14 7 4 3 16 12 4 25
Timway 14 6 3 5 25 18 7 21
Dennisov 14 5 5 4 26 11 15 20
Kerla 14 6 2 6 18 11 7 20
Keyshona 14 5 5 4 19 21 -2 20
The Lowland Clans 14 5 2 7 18 15 3 17
Gmlac 14 5 0 9 13 28 -15 15
Cermania 14 4 1 9 11 30 -19 13

Group 11
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Nikea 14 8 3 3 26 14 12 27
Tranquillitis 14 8 3 3 19 12 7 27
New Montreal States 14 6 5 3 16 10 6 23
Ice Reavers 14 6 3 5 28 28 0 21
Squornshelous 14 4 4 6 19 15 4 16
Dead Man 14 4 4 6 16 17 -1 16
NEWI Cefn Druids 14 3 3 8 20 27 -7 12
Ravea 14 3 3 8 9 30 -21 12

Group 12
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Halfassedstates 14 9 2 3 18 9 9 29
The Weegies 14 9 1 4 36 14 22 28
Liverpool England 14 7 2 5 22 17 5 23
One Blue Dot 14 6 2 6 17 21 -4 20
Newcuba 14 5 1 8 18 21 -3 16
Oilermania 14 5 0 9 18 27 -9 15
The Tree Mountains 14 3 2 9 14 26 -12 11
Lynnwoode 14 2 2 10 20 28 -8 8
[/code:1:b00f951e0e]

I'm not seeing many problems with this formula. Anyone have a problem?

Nope, I'm happy with it.

hmmm....I didn't bother looking up the ranks for the teams of the divisions I'm in but I seem to be finishing awefully low for someone in the top 30 in the world....

I'm partial to Sim 2 and Sim 4.

And sign up for the Richter Classic. It is a 16 team single elimination basketball tournament! http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=109660

[code:1:a8be557c6a]Group 1
Lanky dude 14 7 3 4 15 10 5 24
Runaway Moose 14 5 4 5 13 13 0 19[/code:1:a8be557c6a]

Hmmm ;)

Seriously, I'm quite pleased. Some upsets, newbies seem to get fairly good positions...yep, seems fair to me.

Sim 4

[code:1:9a8fd5d3bb]
Group 10
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Dennisov 14 5 5 4 26 11 15 20
[/code:1:9a8fd5d3bb]

I really wish I'd looked at all of Dennisovs results. 5-5-4 with +15 GD phew.

OK, let me get this straight,

1. You get points for the quantity of your RP, surely it is better to have a small good RP than a long, boring GODMODing RP?

2. I'm ranked 15th despite qualifying for the quarter finals for the last two cups running?

3. I, despite being ranked 15th am finishing
5th (Simulation 1, behind Eauz and Keyshona?)
5th (Simulation 2, behind God-Squad and Anti-Nazis)
4th (Simulation 3, behind Lanky Dude and New Montreal States!)
3rd (Simulation 4, behind Anti-Nazis but above last times finalists Giant Zucchini)
Ludicrous!

Why can't things just stay the same? Seriously TnUI you can't go through with this method

Sim 4

[code:1:4264fb3c8d]
Group 10
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Dennisov 14 5 5 4 26 11 15 20
[/code:1:4264fb3c8d]

I really wish I'd looked at all of Dennisovs results. 5-5-4 with +15 GD phew.

Hmm. Sim 1 disturbs me.

[code:1:4264fb3c8d]Group 1
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Liverpool England 14 8 5 1 22 6 16 29
NASTIC 2 14 7 4 3 25 7 18 25
Belmorian Scandinavia 14 5 4 5 19 20 -1 19
Busby 14 4 6 4 13 15 -2 18
Lemmitania 14 4 5 5 15 15 0 17
Iansisle 14 4 5 5 15 18 -3 17
Avenging Altos 14 2 4 8 13 22 -9 10
Alex The Tall 14 3 1 10 14 33 -19 10 [/code:1:4264fb3c8d]

[code:1:4264fb3c8d]Lemmitania aggregate results:
P W D L F A GD Pts
4 28 14 14 82 44 38 98

Lemmitania average results:
P W D L F A GD Pts
1 7 3.5 3.5 20.5 11 10.5 24.5
[/code:1:4264fb3c8d]

Strikes me that the #1-ranked side ought to be doing better than that.

On the other hand, the two #2 sides seem to be doing just about as well as you'd expect, so maybe the Lemmitania results are just a fluke.

[code:1:4264fb3c8d]Aggregate results:
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Ogle 4 36 14 6 83 29 54 122
SN38 4 33 12 11 92 33 59 111

Average results:
Name P W D L F A GD Pts
Ogle 1 9 3.5 1.5 20.75 7.25 13.5 30.5
SN38 1 8.25 3 2.75 23 8.25 14.75 27.75
[/code:1:4264fb3c8d]

Taking another look, I'm seeing a lot of top-ranked sides failing to qualify half the time. TB (ranked 13): qualifies twice out of four. TBF: (15): zero qualifications; Rejistania: 2 qualifications; KP: 2 qualifications; and many highly-ranked sides failed to qualify in at least one of the four simulations (Halfassed; Nikea; Dennisov; Lemmitania; CH).

I dunno... It seems to me an awful lot like the old days, when we used a formula that gave ranked teams only a minimal advantage, and we regularly saw only 23 or 24 ranked sides qualifying.

There were arguments in favor of keeping it wide open, of course. Errinundera used to make them.

OK, let me get this straight,

1. You get points for the quantity of your RP, surely it is better to have a small good RP than a long, boring GODMODing RP?

2. I'm ranked 15th despite qualifying for the quarter finals for the last two cups running?

3. I, despite being ranked 15th am finishing
5th (Simulation 1, behind Eauz and Keyshona?)
5th (Simulation 2, behind God-Squad and Anti-Nazis)
4th (Simulation 3, behind Lanky Dude and New Montreal States!)
3rd (Simulation 4, behind Anti-Nazis but above last times finalists Giant Zucchini)
Ludicrous!

Why can't things just stay the same? Seriously TnUI you can't go through with this method

Well, I was hesitant before TBF posted, but looking at his post I say....

Love the system ;)

i agree with TBF, the system doesnt work. I'm not saying 'TBF/Lemmitania should qualify no matter what' because it would be perfectly feasible for them to miss out, and i know that its not the country's performance that counts, its their roleplays, and if Lemmitania did finish mid-table in a qualifying group, then the required action is to create some sort of rp which interestingly accounts for their poor performance, and not to whine that the random numbers screwed them over (not that Lemmy is the type to do that of course)....

...but...

...those simulations show that this new system TnUI is using shakes up the results a little too much.

Also: i didnt want to harp on about it too much immediately after you posted, but, on first impression and on reflection: i dont like the new ranking system at all mate, and i think we should go with Brazillico's. Why? because this TnUI system obviously focuses a little too much on RP bonuses. I think we should still have an RP bonus, but it shouldnt be added to the side's rank, it should be done the old way. (i.e. accumulated through the qualifying stages) Adding an RP bonus to a team's rank is unfair on most nations IMO, especially as some participants' RPs, with myself as the main case, are mostly formulaic and are contrived for the sole reason of wanting an RP bonus.

If RPing becomes a means to get your side five places higher in the rankings then i reckon you'll quicklyi bet you thought thered be something important hidden inside a sentence like this, mwuha see roleplays stagnate, with more and more coming under the category of 'spam' rather than being the interesting/funny commentaries/observations which make the NSWC what it is. Also, say for examlple Lemmitania didnt win WCX and got knocked out by TBF in the quarter finals (impossible i know, but bear with me ;)) then you'd see him down in fifteenth because of the lack of RPs, and as we all know, Lemmy is arguably the best RPer in the game.

There has to be a line between having no RP bonus and having three or four random non-rping plebs pushing some good RPers out, and having an RP bonus so large that it disfigures the rankings so much that you get a load of talentless goons being ranked 6th on the basis of a dozen boring formulaic roleplays. I think the line fell at the old-style RP bonus :)

so yeah, i appreciate TnUI trying new things out because its only going to help the game, but this idea is crap, so move along :)

Well, I was trying not to complain about one result where Lem finished 5th. I was concerned about the fact that lots of top sides are finishing poorly repeatedly in multiple simulations; and the top-ranked side is averaging a meagre 7 wins in 14 matches per simulation.

As I noted, the next two top sides are doing as well as expected, and most of the rest of the top ten are doing fine. But I'm a little concrned about TB and KP and TBF, as I noted... that many top sides ("top" being based on TnUI's rankings used in the simulations, BTW) shouldn't be failing to qualify that often... it'll likely mean 3 or 4 of the top 20 sides failing to qualify, from the look of things.

That can be okay, of course, but it certainly brings back that element of randomness we had back in WCs 4,5, and 6, and which was eliminated in WCS 7-10.

And I pretty much agree with everything Audioslavia said about the rankings. While I appreciate what TnUI is doing as far as trying to find a more expedient system for incorporating an RP bonus, I personally think that having it directly affect rankings will make it harder to RP, as people will have to RP their teams' inexplicable jumps up and down the rankings. How, for example, will Snubby explain away suddenly being the #2 side in the world? Or Audioslavia being 6th, or TBF 15th? And it does seem a little odd for GZ to come into World Cup 10 ranked 7th, finish second, and wind up ranked 5th, behind SN38 and Ogle.

I suppose we could all assume that in the intervening 4 years between cups, a whole lot of international football goes on, and that the results of those matches affect the rankings.

It is a bit embarrasing to explain a 20 position rise despite the not-so-good season (Ogle-Rejis 5-2 :oops: ). But I like the idea to have a bit more upsets in the cup, since the last cup was a bit too predictable (at least the qualification. No unranked team managed to be ranked above a ranked for two matchdays in a row)

It is a bit embarrasing to explain a 20 position rise despite the not-so-good season (Ogle-Rejis 5-2 :oops: ). But I like the idea to have a bit more upsets in the cup, since the last cup was a bit too predictable (at least the qualification. No unranked team managed to be ranked above a ranked for two matchdays in a row)

But to be quite honest that's realistic. In RL you would never see a team like Guam or Montserrat (Worst Team in the world) beat a team like Spain or England.

But to be quite honest that's realistic. In RL you would never see a team like Guam or Montserrat (Worst Team in the world) beat a team like Spain or England.
NSWC is not RLWC. In RLWC, the teams are always the same, while they change very much in NSWC. There is also a different aim: the aim of NSWC is to have fun! and also newbs should have fun and see their team defeat ranked opposition.

But to be quite honest that's realistic. In RL you would never see a team like Guam or Montserrat (Worst Team in the world) beat a team like Spain or England.
NSWC is not RLWC. In RLWC, the teams are always the same, while they change very much in NSWC. There is also a different aim: the aim of NSWC is to have fun! and also newbs should have fun and see their team defeat ranked opposition.about 70% of newbies entering the WC just ignore it and die off, having only entred 1 cup. I think that devotion should see you move up the rankings and qualify in the future, but no-body should qualify for their first World Cup.

Sign Up for the indoor football Championships (Futsal) here:

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=110476

If a newb RPs properly, why not? And I did not speak about qualifying but of simply being above ranked teams in the table for two matchdays.

I dunno... It seems to me an awful lot like the old days, when we used a formula that gave ranked teams only a minimal advantage, and we regularly saw only 23 or 24 ranked sides qualifying.

There were arguments in favor of keeping it wide open, of course. Errinundera used to make them.

First of all, happy new year everyone.

A couple of comments re: this issue. At this point, TnUI is just running simulations. Nothing is yet set in stone. Comparing WC 8-10 with TnUI's sims, we've come up with the following:

WC 8: 23 of the top 32 teams in the world qualified for the World Cup. 0 unranked teams qualified

WC 9: 26 of the top 32 teams in the world qualified for the World Cup. 0 unranked teams qualified

WC 10: 27 of the top 32 teams in the world qualified for the World Cup. 0 unranked teams qualified

Sim 1: 18 of the top 32 teams in the world directly qualified for the World Cup. 1 unranked team qualified. 6 of the top 32 teams in the world would participate in a round of playoffs. i.e. 18-24 of the top 32 teams in the world would qualify for the cup.

Sim 2: 21 of the top 32 teams in the world directly qualified for the World Cup. 0 unranked teams qualified. 5 of the top 32 teams in the world would participate in a round of playoffs. i.e. 21-26 of the top 32 teams in the world would qualify for the cup.

Sim 3: 17 of the top 32 teams in the world directly qualified for the World Cup. 1 unranked team qualified. 5 of the top 32 teams in the world would participate in a round of playoffs. i.e. 17-22 of the top 32 teams in the world would qualify for the cup.

Sim 4: 19 of the top 32 teams in the world directly qualified for the World Cup. 0 unranked teams qualified. 5 of the top 32 teams in the world would participate in a round of playoffs. i.e. 19-24 of the top 32 teams in the world would qualify for the cup.

So, the Sims shake things up a little bit. However, much of the difference between the past WCs and the Sims has more to do with the way some of the groups were randomly chosen in the Sims. Particularly in Sim 3, the one that shows the most change, there were quite a few top sides drawn in the same groups. In truth, TnUI's sims are really not that much of a change from the most recent cups.

It seems some nations feel they have a right to qualify for the cup every time. Perhaps because we support an unfancied club and national side IRL, this seems quite odd to us. We don't take success for granted, it makes succeeding that much more rewarding. No one has a right to qualify, there should be some element of chance involved if the game is to be realistic. IRL there are always a few top sides that miss out on World Cup qualification.

WCs 9 & 10 saw 26 and 27 of the top 32 ranked teams qualify for the Cup. In our opinion, that is far too static and cements the same few at the top. The WC community would only benefit from a little more diversity, given the recent addition of quite a few good RPers to the fold. In short, TnUI's system seems to work fine. There is not too much change, while allowing for some small measure of chance in qualification.

Actually, if you factor in RPing into the formula, it would work out right.

Oh, and RP bonuses have no place in rankings.

WCs 9 & 10 saw 26 and 27 of the top 32 ranked teams qualify for the Cup. In our opinion, that is far too static and cements the same few at the top. The WC community would only benefit from a little more diversity, given the recent addition of quite a few good RPers to the fold. In short, TnUI's system seems to work fine. There is not too much change, while allowing for some small measure of chance in qualification.

But 26-28 of the top 32 teams qualifying is about right. Why are they in the top 32, because they have been devoted to the game. Would you like to see Ogle, Lemmy, Kaze Progressa, Ariddia, Spaam, Tanah Burung and TnUI kicked out of the WC by nations such as Avenging Altos and Athamasha? No, because these teams (the high-ranked ones) are what make the World Cup good and interesting.

It seems some nations feel they have a right to qualify for the cup every time.
I hope you're not talking about me.
In short, TnUI's system seems to work fine. There is not too much change, while allowing for some small measure of chance in qualification.
Time will tell. I promise that I won't do any ooc bitching once qualification begins.

It seems some nations feel they have a right to qualify for the cup every time.
I hope you're not talking about me.
In short, TnUI's system seems to work fine. There is not too much change, while allowing for some small measure of chance in qualification.
Time will tell. I promise that I won't do any ooc bitching once qualification begins.

Oh, and RP bonuses have no place in rankings.

amen


Perhaps because we support an unfancied club and national side IRL, this seems quite odd to us

I support Grimsby Town

The problem with TnUI's system is that it allows random n00bs into the cup. Im not against say, a good team like Tanah Burung or Snub Nose 38 losing out to an average-good team like Nastic 2 or The Lowland Clans, but random comfort* teams shouldnt get through at the expense of roleplaying teams. To be honest, i thought we'd reached this point of 'some average teams making it instead of some good teams', but on reflection, it appears we havent. However, incorporating RP bonuses into the rankings is not the solution.

IIRC, i was one of the first to suggest an RP bonus be used in generating results. I know i missed something, cuz it never occurred to me that RP bonus would be incorporated directly into the rankings. I can't see any justification for TB ranking higher than Liverpool England, to use a less than random example.

I definitely want to see a good chance for unranked sides qualifying and upsets to let in some of the good newcomers, so shaking it up seems good to me. However, the simulations (while i see no problem with the failure of some top teams to make it) seem to let in newbies at random.

I'd say use the Brazillico ranking system rather than the rankings with RP bonus directly incorporated. And use an RP bonus, possibly even a stronger one, in generating the actual results. But, i'll be happy with whatever the hosts pick once the decision is made.

I agree with TB in general.

While the simulations seem to let newbs in at random, it will be less of a problem once you include RP bonuses in the results. And if a newbie that RPs a lot qualifies, then good for them! They RPed a lot, and so it a good thing. I mean, I didn't post a single thing in WC3, and yet I almost qualified (damn Zinkoland :P). And do you deny that I am a core WC member?

So, in short, as long as TnUI accomodates a RP bonus in the results, then I like his formula.

Now for the bad news: again, RP bonuses have no place in rankings. So, as such, I do not like TnUI's ranking system.

It can either go

A) TnUI rankings with RP bonus in matches
B) Braz rankings with RP bonus in matches

Whichever one, does the RP bonus apply to the whole of the Cup -- or just qualifying?

B) Braz rankings with RP bonus in matches

-----------------/\
------------------|
|
|
|
|
Thats the one I like

Okay so no-one likes the RP Bonus that took me several, more like seven, hours to do. In that case we aren't gonna have an RP bonus for WC11 in ranks or results.

Okay so no-one likes the RP Bonus that took me several, more like seven, hours to do. In that case we aren't gonna have an RP bonus for WC11 in ranks or results.
No, we want them in the results! Just not the ranks. Please!

This is an either or situation. Ranks or nothing, and you lot chose nothing.

This is an either or situation. Ranks or nothing, and you lot chose nothing.
Why can't we get an RP bonus in the results.

Go on to #wcc to discus.

However, the simulations (while i see no problem with the failure of some top teams to make it) seem to let in newbies at random.

OMG. Random numbers act randomly???

Okay so TBF, AS and Spaam are the only ones with problems with the RP Bonus added to rank system. Here's what I'm gonna suggest, please boycott this World Cup as I've spent a lot of time trying to come up with a new system that you won't even give a chance. For the rest I will play about with the formula and make it so the top 32 teams in the World qualify each time and the number one in the world wins it.

TnUI, I have sent you a TG.

I've cut the RP bonus in half, again. Spaam, AS and TBF can boycott if they want. In the mood I'm in a seriously don't want whiners complaining about everything. Change is a good thing. I'll hold a side tournament for them in which they and 29 other teams of their choice are all ranked first and then they will be happy.

TnUI: I've edited my last post and TGed you.

Sim 3: 17 of the top 32 teams in the world directly qualified for the World Cup. 1 unranked team qualified. 5 of the top 32 teams in the world would participate in a round of playoffs. i.e. 17-22 of the top 32 teams in the world would qualify for the cup.


I think a bit of a shakeup is a good idea. Since we're trying to reward roleplayers in rankings here, some of the top teams who don't roleplay yet consistently do well should be weeded out in favour of those who do RP.

However, taking this sim as an example since it's the sim I don't qualify in, it seems as though the results aren't displaying this RP bonus. I don't mind not qualifying if I'm in a group with some good RPers. If, say, Iansisle, Cockbill, and NMS qualified ahead of me, I wouldn't care because 3 quality RP people are moving up. But in my group in this case, I'm beat out by Zinkoland, Moranwy, and Keyshona. I haven't heard a peep out of any of them for any cup they've been in. How the hell does Zinkoland get an 11-2-1 record? Something to look at.

The thing about putting RP bonuses in the ranks is that the newbies who are good RPers find themselves at a disadvantage. You can't just suddenly rank newbies. I think that's why we are supporting RP bonuses in results only. In fact, if not for RP bonuses in WCX qualifying, NMS, Cockbill Street and Iansisle would have been struggling at the bottom for the entire qualifying campaign. And yet it would not seem right to give them ranks in the middle of qualifying either, would it? I think that RP bonuses in results will be the best option. However I would rather go with RP bonuses than none at all.

Well, i'll say a couple of things now. One, is i'm incredibly appreciative, TnUI, of all the work you've done this Cup and all along, and i agree with the need for a bit of a shake-up. I think most people are appreciative, actually. Second is, while you're test-piloting ideas, i'll feel free to kick in feedback -- and i don't think any of the comments from anyone are whining. Once the decision is made, there won't be a single complaint from this direction.

Reading some of the responses again, it occurs to me that the simulations can't be considered as reflecting what will happen in a real run, since the real thing would include the RP bonus and the simulations (by their very nature) can't. So, scratch my earlier comment on that.

TB, with the system TnUI proposes (I think), there are no RP bonuses for a match by match basis.

TnUI, you know I appreciate all the work that you do.

I am just saying that putting RP bonuses in the end of the cup ranks is not a good idea in my opinion. In my opinion, I think adding some sort of RP bonus to something that forms part of the formula is a better idea. Like perhaps only adding the RP bonus to the ranks for the sake of the formula only. And keep the end of the cup ranks without RP bonuses, because the bonuses will come out from the results anyway.

Surely that would not take too much pain? I mean, all you do is not calculate the end of the cup ranks using your formula, but do the results as you were planning.

However, I agree. I would rather some RP bonus than none at all.

Oh, and please, go have a drink. Its on me :)

I actually like the RP Bonus added to ranks for a few reason. One it's an awful lot quicker, like 1,000 times. Leaving me time to do other things. Two if someone is away like K going to Mexico or GZ having an exam then they can still RP later on and get the bonus. You don't have to RP after each match to get the bonus. There are others but I've been awake a long time and trust me it's a good idea. First timers have little to no hope of making the cup proper so the RP Bonus wouldn't really help them till their second cup anyway. I want to setup up a panel to calculate the RP bonus each nation should recieve, but I don't know if this system will be successful or not. I've altered the formula to favour the top teams and it seems okay. I should be starting the WC11 thread soon. Sorry I was pissy earlier.

TnUI, why are you against *tag*ing of the scores-thread? I set a bookmark, but I prefer to have it *tag*ed, so I can see if new scores are up also when I'm at the university simply via egosearch.

I didn't *tag* it till now, so don't also lower my rank :)

You know I'm only joking, you can tag it if you want.

I should have explained everything I was thinking about, I thought I would have more freetime over here, but it appears to be the other way around. I'll try and explain everything tomorrow. Matchday One results are going to be posted tomorrow as well.

FYI: If anyone plans to make the wc12-tables with EXCEL 2003, forget it! The random number generator produces sometimes numbers, that are out-of-range (negative values). Other spreadsheet-programs don't have this problem.

Did you remember to put the INT command?

I didn't use Excel, in fact, I don't use any Microsoft-products. I read it in a very good german computer magazine (in the C't, if you want to know excatly) and thought it would interest you.

Added the WCC Thread.

If anyone else wants their threads added, I'm not sure if it does a lot of good, but you never know. Could you add the links formatted in the same way as the first page for easy copy and pasting.

Thank you.

TnUI: The links help me - and I think at least some others. Thanks :D

Could you please move this thread to the "Football Archive" group

Giant Evil Spider Football League Season 3 Signup (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=104921)

and add this one to the Current Football group?

Giant Evil Spider Football League Season 3 Underawy (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108650&highlight=)

Thanks again

TnUI, could you please add some more handball links:

NationStates II Handball Championship - RP (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=110812) NationStates III Handball Championship (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=113182) to current handball?

Thanks in advance.

Posted in the Ranking discussion thread, but more relevant to general WC discussion:

World Cup Formula Version 3.1
D = 930 (+20 at Home) - ((Your Rank - (Their Rank/4))/1.5)
A = 12

Interesting. I had not noticed this post until just now. This explains a lot.

54 v 1

930+20-((54-(1/4))/1.5)
=950-(53.75/1.5)
=915

930-((1-(54/4))/1.5)
=930-(-12.5/1.5)
=938

915 v 938... not much of a difference.

Maybe when 1 hosts 54 (958 v 895) Lemmy will finally win a match.

…or maybe not.


Matchday 9 Results

Group 1
Lemmitania 0 Keyshona 2

[code:1:fc87ae2b52]
1 Lemmitania
46 Keyshona[/code:1:fc87ae2b52]

…or maybe not.


Matchday 9 Results

Group 1
Lemmitania 0 Keyshona 2

[code:1:1c2b95a557]
1 Lemmitania
46 Keyshona[/code:1:1c2b95a557]

…or maybe not.


Matchday 9 Results

Group 1
Lemmitania 0 Keyshona 2

[code:1:94d83cc00c]
1 Lemmitania
46 Keyshona[/code:1:94d83cc00c]

…or maybe not.

That's all right; 6 hosting 150 can't win a match either. :?

And 17 are still going well. :D

Seriously, Lemmy's made a good point. This formula leads to too many upsets being possible. We could get another GZ/ORD (maybe down to the two hosts in the last four). I've done a new formula, based on the KPB system's ranking scores (to better reflect differences between sides) but KPB seems to be slightly out of vogue atm.

Meanwhile, Kaze Progressa present NationStates Superstars (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=113548).

Seriously, Lemmy's made a good point. This formula leads to too many upsets being possible.

Indeed. Admittedly, the first formula was totally broken (new teams didn't have the slightest chance), but now it's been corrected too far in the other direction (new teams are nearly equal to top-10 sides).

I could go on and on about my beefs with the current Cup, but it's likely to put me in a worse mood than I'm in now, so I won't.

We could get another GZ/ORD (maybe down to the two hosts in the last four). I've done a new formula, based on the KPB system's ranking scores (to better reflect differences between sides) but KPB seems to be slightly out of vogue atm.

At least everyone knew what they would get with KPB... :roll:

And the double-posting forums sure aren't helping my mood, either...

I say we do away with the rankings and formulas all together and just go back to random die rolls.

Nobody every complained that the dice didn't work.

I agree :D

Except for the fact that the NSWC has become more complicated since the halycon days of WC3. So I think we need more complex dice now.

We really don't want to get in a rather needless argument with anyone, so we won't mention that random numbers are by their nature random, and that of course there will always be the odd upset.

Make of the following what you will, here are the top four teams in each group after matchday 9. On the whole, the top 32 are doing quite well, very much in line with the last few world cups. :

[code:1:6e22807bc7]
Group 1
Name Pts
#32 Busby 17
#36 Eauz 17
#1 Lemmitania 16
#46 Keyshona 15

Group 2
Name Pts
#35 NASTIC 2 22
#2 Oglethorpia 20
#29 Dark Outcasts 18
#38 Timway 13

Group 3
Name Pts
#15 Dennisov 18
#3 Snub Nose 38 18
#46 Belmorian Scandinavia 17
#58 Tranquillitis 16

Group 4
Name Pts
#23 Rejistania 24
#20 One Red Dot 21
#4 Giant Zucchini 19
#44 Lanky dude 16

Group 5
Name Pts
#17 Kaze Progressa 22
#5 Ravenspire 20
#34 Spaam 16
Exetonia 12

Group 6
Name Pts
#15 Tanah Burung 20
#26 Gesamtkuntswerk 18
#23 Squornshelous 18
#6 Bedistan 17

Group 7
Name Pts
#13 Runaway Moose 21
#7 Europa Brittania 20
#27 Antaeus Rising 18
#44 SterlingIce 17

Group 8
Name Pts
#38 East Spaam 20
#18 Nikea 19
#46 New Montreal States 19
#8 Ariddia 17

Group 9
Name Pts
#19 Commerce Heights 19
#9 Kingsford 18
#55 Defari 17
#13 Halfassedstates 17

Group 10
Name Pts
#10 Liverpool England 23
#31 The Lowland Clans 20
#56 Anti-Nazis 17
#40 Iansisle 15

Group 11
Name Pts
#21 Aquilla 24
#11 Audioslavia 20
#28 Oddslavo 16
#69 Big Butts 15

Group 12
Name Pts
#12 The Belmore Family 25
#70 Pavesia 19
#79 Kerla 19
#93 God Squad 13

[/code:1:6e22807bc7]

Before anyone points out to us that these tables are largely the result of the earlier formula, we would say only this. TnUI has been running quite a few different tests of the results and the tables. From what we have seen both prior to and following the slight change to the formula, the end results are always quite frankly very much in the range of previous World Cups.

In fact, the only thing that has really changed with the latest version of the formula is that the chances of scoring are up. We argued with TnUI to make this so as some test runs prior to the change were, for instance, showing no less than 28 teams conceding less than a goal every other match. IRL this statistic would be preposterous, hence our suggestion to TnUI to slightly increase the goal chances. The result has been more goals, but at the same time, the test runs have consistently showed the end results and tables to be in line with previous World Cups.

There's still four matches left, and anything can happen, so none of us should jump to conclusions about what the final results will be. Anyway, I'm not going to fuss even if Lemmitania fails to qualify.

If Lemmy fails to qualify, I'd blame the lack of post-match RP bonuses.

Busby, NASTIC 2 and Alces Rex are all heading groups and I haven't seen any of them touch this thread yet. Not to mention a few others in excellent contention to make the World Cup.

Not only that but several of the new teams are taking an absolute pounding, many of which are frequent and promising RPers. As much as I want to see Mattigool lose out and have the first ever pointless qualification campaign, I really feel for the guy since he is actually RPing and deserves a few more points than the big goose egg he's sitting on right now.

True not that if he won all his remaining games he would qualify, but he should have a good ranking next World Cup and chance to make it to the finals, at least if my ranking system is still used.

This is totally out of left field, but how exactly are RP bonuses given with the TnUI ranking system?

If Lemmy fails to qualify, I'd blame the lack of post-match RP bonuses.

As Lemmy points out, there are still four matches to go, so let's agree not to argue about speculation.

Busby, NASTIC 2 and Alces Rex are all heading groups and I haven't seen any of them touch this thread yet. Not to mention a few others in excellent contention to make the World Cup.

Not only that but several of the new teams are taking an absolute pounding, many of which are frequent and promising RPers.


Loving Squirrels, are you in fact Brazillico?

If so, you missed a report I made of RPs in World Cup 9. It essentially showed that half of the top 16 teams were not bothering to RP during the qualifying round, yet they were consistently easily qualifying for the tournament. When I posted the report, there were quite a few more experienced players shall we say, who were adamant against increasing RP bonuses.

This is a problem of the four cups I have been in: ranked sides who don't RP qualify, while unranked, low-ranked sides who do RP don't. IMO, the way TnUI is factoring in RP bonuses does not make that much of a difference in this respect. The same things were happening in cups where RP bonuses were added as the tournament was going on.

Those of us who want to reform the game to include more of an RP factor or a little shake up of the rankings face an uphill battle. Did you note the uproar over TnUI's sims prior to the cup, where unranked/low-ranked sides were doing better than in previous cups?

I agree very much with your concerns Brazillico, here and elsewhere. Perhaps the RP factor can be improved in future WCs, through the reform of the WCC.

This is totally out of left field, but how exactly are RP bonuses given with the TnUI ranking system?

Well I was hoping there Panel of RP (4 members) and the CoRP (Chief of RP) Would rate all the RPs in the RP thread and the Losers Cup, and come up with a number to add to the points total. Of course if any other reform goes thru there will be no Panel of RP and this ranking system will die. I went thru the threads myself and did it roughly to get the RP bonus seeing the WCC is so inefficient they can't do anything.

Of course if any other reform goes thru there will be no Panel of RP and this ranking system will die.

I would respectfully disagree on this point. The other two reform proposals primarily are addressing the construction of the post-WCC setup. They do not rule out the possibility of any future reform, the Panel of RP and the TnUI ranking system included. Should there be another reform system adopted, the Panel of RP and TnUI ranking system could easily be included in any reforms.

Those of us who want to reform the game to include more of an RP factor or a little shake up of the rankings face an uphill battle. Did you note the uproar over TnUI's sims prior to the cup, where unranked/low-ranked sides were doing better than in previous cups?


Yes, because the sides that were doing well werent the well-known non-rpers, they were the not-so-well-known non-rpers like Busby, Anti-Nazis and Kerla. The likes of NMS, Iansisle, Cockbill Street etc were still not qualifying. I would say any 'uproar' from regulars would be well-founded wouldnt you?

No ones gonna complain if Iansisle or Mattigool beat them to a world cup, but Anti-Nazis and Kerla topping the groups? I'd be pretty pissed off if i missed out because of those types of nations

Disclaimer: Kerla might be an Rper, i dont know, i cant remember. If you are and youre reading this then just delete your name and replace it with 'Lanky Dude'. Same goes for Busby.

No ones gonna complain if Iansisle or Mattigool beat them to a world cup, but Anti-Nazis and Kerla topping the groups? I'd be pretty pissed off if i missed out because of those types of nations

Disclaimer: Kerla might be an Rper, i dont know, i cant remember. If you are and youre reading this then just delete your name and replace it with 'Lanky Dude'. Same goes for Busby.

Builds me up. :wink:

I think that there is another problem. As far as I understood average goals for and against also count. I had to play against the four strongest teams of my group at the beginning (except at Lynnwoode). So goal difference was not so good when I had to play against other newbies, which just played against each other.

:evil: no double posting

no double posting

no double posting

I'm a bit ambivalent about all this. Of two minds, ya know? So, I'm just gonna toss some food for thought out there.

I like the idea of a bonus of some sort for RPing - to encourage non-RPers to RP, and RPers to continue. More than half the fun of NS WC Football is reading the RPs. And writing them.

I also like the idea of ranking the sides. It adds more of the RL flavor to the whole thing, and it provides some incentive to particpants to keep coming back, because in general (not always - and that's a good thing) continued participation over a couple of cups brings a sides rank up to a level where they are real contenders.

And I REALLY like that sometimes the random number gods jump in and screw it all up. Because without the random effects that cause highly ranked sides to lose, and unranked sides to win, and some highly ranked sides to fail to qualify while some unranked sides somehow do - well, what fun would it be? A sure thing is really very boring.

On the other hand, because I do like the random surprise wins and loses, I think that both the RP bonus and a sides rank should only have a small effect on the random outcome of each match.

This one will probably make some folks angry. Well...sorry in advance, but this is my opinion. RPs should not be graded. Either you RP, or you don't. I think if we start making value judgements about each others RPs, that will lead to serious problems.

Also - sometimes it's hard to come up with something interesting. I know that sometimes I have a very hard time thinking of something to say other than "heres the flippin' score, and here's where we stand". And, sometimes I don't have time to RP, and sometimes I can't stay on the forum long enough when I do have time (@@#()$*%^*)$@ forum!).

Yeah, there are some RPs that just knock your socks off. But we can't expect them all to be. We gotta just keep rolling along, and drop on the floor laughing when we get lucky and somebody comes up with a really good one.

Last thing - this one is mainly for those who think they're losing too much - oddly, I find it much easier to RP a loss than a win. With a win, all you've got is "we won". With a loss, you've got the possiblity of intrigue, on the pitch and off. You've got politics, firings, executions. You've got insane managers/coaches who do incredibly stupid things as a result of losing. Angry footballers. Angry fans. Angry Head of State. etc.

So...summing up...little RP bonus'. Small advantage based on rank. All RPs are equal. And - tolerance.

Thanks for "listening" :wink:

Just to clarify my stance: my problem is not that newbies are doing too well. It did sound like I was saying that in my last post, but I'll admit my mind was impaired at the time. I had one match that went even worse in WC10 (see Bedistan 0-1 New Montreal States), so I really shouldn't be complaining. Actually, the problem is that the newbies aren't doing well enough, at least in Group 6. When a 5-2-2 record is only sufficient for fourth place (note: I haven't seen MD10 results yet), that means something's just a tad too lopsided. But ah well, what's done is done. Besides, I made it to my first six Cups -- it had to end sometime.

No ones gonna complain if Iansisle or Mattigool beat them to a world cup, but Anti-Nazis and Kerla topping the groups? I'd be pretty pissed off if i missed out because of those types of nations

Disclaimer: Kerla might be an Rper, i dont know, i cant remember. If you are and youre reading this then just delete your name and replace it with 'Lanky Dude'. Same goes for Busby.

Builds me up. :wink:

I think that there is another problem. As far as I understood average goals for and against also count. I had to play against the four strongest teams of my group at the beginning (except at Lynnwoode). So goal difference was not so good when I had to play against other newbies, which just played against each other.
Goal Differential doesn't effect the match outcome. GD only comes into play when, AFTER the matches are over, two or more sides have the same number of points - then, the side with the higher GD ranks higher.

Just to clarify my stance: my problem is not that newbies are doing too well. It did sound like I was saying that in my last post, but I'll admit my mind was impaired at the time. I had one match that went even worse in WC10 (see Bedistan 0-1 New Montreal States), so I really shouldn't be complaining. Actually, the problem is that the newbies aren't doing well enough, at least in Group 6. When a 5-2-2 record is only sufficient for fourth place (note: I haven't seen MD10 results yet), that means something's just a tad too lopsided. But ah well, what's done is done. Besides, I made it to my first six Cups -- it had to end sometime.Gotcha. Along those lines - SN38 did not qualify in at least one WC - and maybe more (can't remember at the moment). But - one of my favorite posts that I've written is one where SN38 leaves "the field of play" after failing to qualify. Did the whole "Casablanca" thing - airfield, foggy night, Eileen Dover in a big floppy hat gets on the plan because Ben Dover tells her that her place is with the team (returning to SN38), and if she doesn't get on the plane she'll regret it "maybe not now, but soon...and for the rest of your life" - and so on. I seem to write RPs I like better when SN38 loses. Go figure. :wink:

Hey, has anybody said they want to host the also-ran tournament this time around? 'Cause if Lemmitania doesn't qualify-- and that's a big if (they're currently in qualifying position), I'd like to host it.

If no one else has said they want to yet.

So there's some wishy-washyness for you.

I'll host it with you, if you like (assuming I don't qualify, which is highly likely).

And want to go back to the original dice rolling? :D

i'd like non-rping newbs to continuosly be annihilated 9-0, and rping newbs to be able to give the bigger sides some proper competition i.e. a pretty good chance of qualifying.

i also want the moon on a stick :)

How about giving lower ranked teams more of an RP bonus?

I'll host it with you, if you like (assuming I don't qualify, which is highly likely).

And want to go back to the original dice rolling? :D

If both Lemmitania and Spaam fail to qualify, you're on.

re: results, I was thinking of giving the KPB formula a test run.

Sure, why not?

Oh, and link?

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=115091

Hey, has anybody said they want to host the also-ran tournament this time around? 'Cause if Lemmitania doesn't qualify-- and that's a big if (they're currently in qualifying position), I'd like to host it.

If no one else has said they want to yet.

So there's some wishy-washyness for you.
I've already said I wanted to host it...it was buried somewhere in one of my early RPs for WC11.
Even though I'll almost certainly qualify...but Nikea qualified for WC10 and still hosted the Supercup...

The 5 types of people that play in the World Cup.
N00bs, they signup and then disappear after their first World Cup or stop playing.
Newbs, they repeatedly signup, but don’t actually do anything.
RPing Newbs, they repeatedly signup, RP a lot and become Vets/RPing Vets.
Vets, have signed up repeatedly and continue to do so. Already being in the Worlds elite or lacking in time they don’t RP as much any more and tend to live on past glory.
RPing Vets, there is no stopping these people with way too much time on their hands, we know their names off by heart and are saddened if any disappear.
Did I miss any?

i'd like non-rping newbs to continuosly be annihilated 9-0, and rping newbs to be able to give the bigger sides some proper competition i.e. a pretty good chance of qualifying.

i also want the moon on a stick :)Do you have a big enough stick to do that? :shock:

How about giving lower ranked teams more of an RP bonus?This may be a great idea. I like it. Particularly for RPing Newbs (see TnUIs definitions). I haven't a clue what the "formula" should be, but a stepped RP bonus, higher for lower ranked sides, and decreasing as the sides rank increases - I like it.

In the event that Lemmy, Spaam and whoever else wants to host it qualifies, we wouldn't mind staging the event as it is almost sure we won't make it.

On SN38's comments:

'RPs should not be graded. Either you RP, or you don't. I think if we start making value judgements about each others RPs, that will lead to serious problems.'

I'm not sure about this. Value judgements about RPs are an evil, but perhaps a necessary evil. Assuming the RP bonus was non-graded in WC9, LD got a LOT more of a boost than they should have done, and the consequences of that have come back to haunt us as they have been frighteningly competitive ever since, and could very concievably qualify for WC11.

On the other hand, there are the non-native speakers who RP well but have a number of grammatical mistakes due to posting in a foreign language, and these must continue to be rewarded. I'm talking mainly Rejistania and Mattigool here.

'...because I do like the random surprise wins and loses [sic], I think that both the RP bonus and a sides rank should only have a small effect on the random outcome of each match.'

Not too small. Random surprises *should* happen, but not too often. That's what makes them surprises. Part of the reason the huge upsets in recent WC history (LD 5 TnUI 1, Beddy 0 NMS 1, Endray-Island 3 Errinundera 2) have been so striking is because they're so much of a departure from the normal. A possible guideline: before accounting for RP bonuses, there should be about a 1% chance of a rank-150 side beating the world number one. (I'll try and calculate this figure for formulae past and present this week.)

And lower ranked teams getting more of an RP bonus? I like that. I could incorporate it somewhat in the formula I've created using the KPB ranking system values (as opposed to ranks themselves); at present the square root of the rank score and the square root of the RP bonus are added to the random number separately, whereas this could change to the square root of (rank score + RP bonus). (Multipliers are added to make the effect suitably large) This would have the same effect; eg a side with rank score of 10 vs a side with rank score of 30 (which is roughly equivalent to GZ playing Cockbill Street), if the former RPed and had a bonus of 3 then instead of (square root of 10) + (square root of 3) = 4.894... the bonus would be (square root of 13) = 3.605... - but for the side ranked 30th, instead of (square root of 30) + (square root of 3) = 7.209... the bonus would be (square root of 33) = 5.745...

Obviously the bonus falls each time (and hence, unless the multiplier is increased, the results become more unpredictable) but the side ranked highest is relatively better off (with a bonus loss of 1.289 vs 1.464). At present the multiplier is 15 - so the difference in bonus losses is a total of 2.625. In a formula where the constant by which the random decimal is multiplied is 515 for away sides and 530 for home sides, that means one in 196 attacks will have a different result. That's not much, but potentially all the difference.

Sorry this sounds so

Part of the reason the huge upsets in recent WC history (LD 5 TnUI 1, Beddy 0 NMS 1, Endray-Island 3 Errinundera 2) have been so striking is because they're so much of a departure from the normal.

Wait, how is it a depature from the norm if it happens so regularly?

In the event that Lemmy, Spaam and whoever else wants to host it qualifies, we wouldn't mind staging the event as it is almost sure we won't make it.

Put it this way.... either you will be hosting it with Lemmy, or I will ;)

Well, regardless of who hosts it, it looks like my once-great team will get to participate... ;)

Well, regardless of who hosts it, it looks like my once-great team will get to participate... ;)

We'll try our best against Gesamtkuntswerk for you, Bedi. :)

This is a report from the FANCD into the current qualifying controversies, made completely independently of any other organisation from outside or otherwise.

Well after looking down the rankings compared with the teams currently in qualifying positions, three of the top sixteen are out of the top two in their groups, all of whom are in fourth place (Giant Zuchinni, Bedistan and Halfassedstates). Other notable RPers outside their group's top two are Nikea (3rd, group 8 ), Spaam (3rd, group 5 [though East Spaam is in a qualifying position, strangely enough]), Iansisle, Cockbill Street, New Montreal States and Brazillico. Of these last six, though, only one non-regular RPing team* is ahead of RPing ones (Anti-Nazis above Iansisle and Cockbill Street in group 10.)

However, the problems really lie amongst the RPing elite teams, namely Giant Zuchinni (behind Lanky Dude in group 4), Bedistan (Behind a reasonably quiet pair this time around in Squornshelous and Gesamtkuntswerk in group 6) and Halfassedstates (Who lie behind Defari (who?) in group 9). These three cases aside, the teams in qualifying positions currently are the kinds of teams you would expect to qualify.

Finally, it must be said that the draw has had a lot of effect on who is currently at the top of groups. For example, Kerla (2nd in group 12 behind TBF) would probably be well down the pecking order if they had been drawn in, say, group 5. However, they are not, and look odds-on for a place in the finals from a group with one RPing-Vet and one emerging-as-an-RPing Newb (Vozvyshennost). With a draw where such things happen, it is little wonder that some of the 'bigger' teams around are struggling to qualify.

Here ends part one of the report. Part two will be compiled after the completion of qualifying, if the FANCD consider it necessary to do so.

The FANCD are notorious for getting things completely wrong, so don't read into this too much.

Well, regardless of who hosts it, it looks like my once-great team will get to participate... ;)

Even if you don't make it, using my ranking system you'll still be in the Worlds Top 20...probably.

Oh, and link?

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=115091

Here's an informal tally of who's expressed interest in hosting the also-ran invitational. Although there is no official rule on this, I think it is the consensus that the host should be a participant (ie, a nation that fails to qualify for the Cup proper).

1. Commerce Heights (3rd place after matchday 12)
2. Lemmitania (2nd place after matchday 12 in a very very tight group)
3. Spaam (3rd place after matchday 12)
4. Brazillico (4th place after matchday 12, and on the verge of elimination)

None of the bidders have yet qualified or been elminated. Brazillico's likely to be eliminated with matchday 13, but the other 3 may well have to wait until the playoff among 3rd-place sides is finished to find out which (if any) will co-host.

This is a report from the FANCD into the current qualifying controversies, made completely independently of any other organisation from outside or otherwise.

...stuff that was interesting to read (look up there and read it)...
Finally, it must be said that the draw has had a lot of effect on who is currently at the top of groups
...more interesting stuff...
A while back (I think it was WC6 - but my memory is like a sieve), suddenly the World Cup was hostless. For reasons we don't need to go in to, the two hosts suddenly couldn't.

So, Lemmy came to the rescue and we had a good cup.

In the midst of all of us trying to figure out what to do, The Minister of Picking Number Out Of A Hat, Anita Brake, drew suggested groups for the qualifiers. Lemmy (as host now) posted something like "these look ok, and if nobody protests, we'll go with them". Nobody protested, we went with them.

(There is a point - I'll get to it)

When Anita did the draw, she used the ranks current after the previous cup. I think there were 8 groups then. Took the top 8, and each went in a group by itself - random selection among those 8 to see who went were. Then, Anita selected the sides ranked 9th to 16th - and randomly selected one of them for each group. Then, 17th thru 24th - one randomly assigned to each group (I actually PICKED THEM OUT OF A HAT). etc. until ALL the ranked sides were in a group. Then, since all new sides are assigned the same initial rank, they all went in the hat and Anita drew to fill the groups.

The Point (finally) - This method was random, but not completely random, and made for fairly even groups. Sure, things like the 8th and 9th ranked sides being in the same group happened - but that way there was some equity to where each side was ranked world-wide to where each side ranked within it's group.

Maybe that was a good idea. And, maybe not.

Part of the reason the huge upsets in recent WC history (LD 5 TnUI 1, Beddy 0 NMS 1, Endray-Island 3 Errinundera 2) have been so striking is because they're so much of a departure from the normal.

Wait, how is it a depature from the norm if it happens so regularly?

They don't happen often.

Bear in mind - there are a LOT of WC games played. Each group of eight playing each other twice is 56 games - so that's 672 games in just the qualifying period. (In the WC10 qualifiers, that number was even higher, at 720.) So since WC10, there have been about 1,300 games... you'd expect SOME strange results from 1,300, surely?

As for the SN38 draw, that's the method I used for the Cherry Cup draw, and the method I suggest for WC12. (Finals, as well as qualifying. In fact, the method used IRL for ranking sides for the WC draw is similar to, and indeed the inspiration behind, the KPB system.)

TnUI simply opted for seeded teams and totally random for the rest. This, in fairness to him, is how the finals groups are done (with changes because of the regional nature of FIFA) IRL. But it doesn't work for qualifying.

Part of the reason the huge upsets in recent WC history (LD 5 TnUI 1, Beddy 0 NMS 1, Endray-Island 3 Errinundera 2) have been so striking is because they're so much of a departure from the normal.

Wait, how is it a depature from the norm if it happens so regularly?

They don't happen often.

Bear in mind - there are a LOT of WC games played. Each group of eight playing each other twice is 56 games - so that's 672 games in just the qualifying period. (In the WC10 qualifiers, that number was even higher, at 720.) So since WC10, there have been about 1,300 games... you'd expect SOME strange results from 1,300, surely?

So, a few results out of 1,300 are a departure from the norm? :P

As for the SN38 draw, that's the method I used for the Cherry Cup draw, and the method I suggest for WC12. (Finals, as well as qualifying. In fact, the method used IRL for ranking sides for the WC draw is similar to, and indeed the inspiration behind, the KPB system.)

TnUI simply opted for seeded teams and totally random for the rest. This, in fairness to him, is how the finals groups are done (with changes because of the regional nature of FIFA) IRL. But it doesn't work for qualifying.

I don't like the pot method as it makes sure all the top teams make it. Group 12 gives a chance for a new team to make it and surely you must admit the groups with four top teams battling it out for 2 and 1/2 spots are interesting.

I don't like the pot method as it makes sure all the top teams make it. Group 12 gives a chance for a new team to make it and surely you must admit the groups with four top teams battling it out for 2 and 1/2 spots are interesting.

They are very interesting, especially when you're the whipping boys in one. :wink:

To be honest, groupings using rankings IRL are OK, because the rankings do not directly affect performance. Because of this, a team could actually be much better or worse than the ranking would dictate. In NS, the direct link between rank and performance would lead to all World Cups being similar in their make-up, with little scope for outsiders to enter.

However, the downside of this is that a lower-ranked team fortunate enough to end up in the lower-ranked group would be able to qualify, and raise its ranking, more easily. However, they would then be likely to maintain a more elevated ranking position. Perhaps undeservedly, some might say, but that's how random numbers work.

Kind of.

"So what," you may ask, "is the purpose of this post?" Well, to be perfectly frank, there isn't one, I was just feeling a bit bored, so I thought I'd shove my mouth in where it wasn't really needed. Hopefully, though, what our aim was (and what we failed to do) is to prove that all the arguments put forward here are valid, from all sides. However, they need to be discussed, or else nobody would know who thought what and we thought nothing.

"So what," you may ask, "is the purpose of this post?" Well, to be perfectly frank, there isn't one, I was just feeling a bit bored, so I thought I'd shove my mouth in where it wasn't really needed. Hopefully, though, what our aim was (and what we failed to do) is to prove that all the arguments put forward here are valid, from all sides. However, they need to be discussed, or else nobody would know who thought what and we thought nothing.

what a guy :)


The 5 types of people that play in the World Cup.
N00bs, they signup and then disappear after their first World Cup or stop playing.
Newbs, they repeatedly signup, but don’t actually do anything.
RPing Newbs, they repeatedly signup, RP a lot and become Vets/RPing Vets.
Vets, have signed up repeatedly and continue to do so. Already being in the Worlds elite or lacking in time they don’t RP as much any more and tend to live on past glory.
RPing Vets, there is no stopping these people with way too much time on their hands, we know their names off by heart and are saddened if any disappear.
Did I miss any?

Just puppets, but they dont count anyway


How about giving lower ranked teams more of an RP bonus?


I like this idea a lot :)

i just want there to be a few great teams, a few good teams, a few average teams and a few shit ones, and for a few of these teams to change round with each other after every world cup.

Do you have a big enough stick to do that?

Im Audioslavian, i can get my scientist dudes to make anything, so long as you tell them that TnUI are also trying to make a moon-on-a-stick and that theyre further on with their moon-on-a-stick-manyoofactyurring

Ok.... experiment time....

Proposed formula: 0.875 + rankdiff/2000
Pick a number between 0 and 1, if its greater, then score a goal
Get 10 shots plus rankdiff/20 if you are the higher ranked team

http://www.ug.cs.usyd.edu.au/~jedrake/experiment.xls

The results aren't looking toooo bad atm....

If the scores are those listed under "Max 1" and "Max 2" then they're really, really high scoring.

Almost like hockey scores instead of football ones.

Nonono.... Max1 and Max2 are the highest scores found for each team.

The scores are in the second and fourth columns.

For #1 vs #41, I'm getting about 56% win, 22% draw and loss, with average goals scored around 3 (1.9 vs 1.1). This is about RLish....

For #1 vs #150, I'm getting about 92% win, 6% draw, and 2% loss, which sounds right to me.... it also allows scores of up to 11 nil (though like once every 10000 games or something)

Sorry for the sheet not being all nice and explanatory.... might do that sometime.

Anyways, the point of this is to make it fairer for all teams, make it more RL, keep it simple, and allow the odd really high score when the diff between teams are really high. Of course, I'm not allowing for home team advantage yet....

Another point is the RP bonus. I think what we'll do, is, say, if the qualifying lasts for 10 matchdays, give each team a bonus of rank/10 on their rank for the purposes of calculating the scores, for each RP they do, up to one every two matchdays. THink about it, and I think it sounds fair. Now sleep.

I've got a basketball tournament about to start. I need 2 more teams. If you're interested, give it a look see @ http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=109660

Another point is the RP bonus. I think what we'll do, is, say, if the qualifying lasts for 10 matchdays, give each team a bonus of rank/10 on their rank for the purposes of calculating the scores, for each RP they do, up to one every two matchdays. THink about it, and I think it sounds fair. Now sleep.

i think i'd like rping n00bs to have a really high RP bonus, so we dont get people like Mattigool getting their ass whupped all the time.

Another point is the RP bonus. I think what we'll do, is, say, if the qualifying lasts for 10 matchdays, give each team a bonus of rank/10 on their rank for the purposes of calculating the scores, for each RP they do, up to one every two matchdays. THink about it, and I think it sounds fair. Now sleep.

i think i'd like rping n00bs to have a really high RP bonus, so we dont get people like Mattigool getting their ass whupped all the time.

N00bs rank = 150. Noobs bonus = 15.
Spaam rank = 30. Spaam bonus = 3.

Any questions?

Hey Boys and Girls! Don't forget to sign up for the Harmony Cup 3 (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116869/) for teams who got sacked from World Cup 11!

Just a thought, since we have all these sports, we could start up the whole olympic topic again.

As long as you do all the work :P

Linky? http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=117339

Say, does anyone happen to have a link to the second Harmony Cup (the one for WC10)?

here ya go Bedi

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116869&highlight=

edit:
d'oh - just noticed it was the 2nd not the 3rd ya was wanting :oops: sorry!

try this one
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=105480&highlight=
the post-WC10 edition was the supercup!

The Baptism of Fire Tournament (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2657114) (for teams new to WC12 and newcomers who missed the signups this time)

Ah, thanks much, Halfassed. Needed that for KPB ranking calculations...

I could just send you my updated KPB sheet :D I've also made it easier to update ;)

ATTENTION:

The long-awaited Champions League 4 is expected to start soon. Please take note all participants.

Giant Zucchini urges Total n Utter Insanity to provide the link for the International Domestic Football Newswires on the front page.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=88792

Can someone make sure that all the old football threads are bumped and/or archived? Some are coming up to 2 months old.

International Fencing Championships:

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2703496#2703496

That's fencing with swords, not wooden panels and posts.

International Fencing Championships:

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2703496#2703496

That's fencing with swords, not wooden panels and posts.Aw...I used to be pretty good with wooden posts and barbed wire when I was a kid on the farm... :wink:

OOC:

I wish Gilmeecia would bring back international Competitive Peircing contests :D

Warning - load of stats follow!!



Halfassedstates WC record (at end of WC11).
WC5[code:1:de38654205]
Halfassed 3 Dark Outcasts 3 (a)
Halfassed 1 Christofi 1(a)
Halfassed 2 Caras Sidh 1(a)
Halfassed 0 Audioslavia 4 (a)
Halfassed 2 Hendland 1(h)
Halfassed 0 Squornshelous 1 (h)
Halfassed 1 One Red Dot 3 (h)
[/code:1:de38654205]
Final record
P7 W2 D2 L3 GF9 GA14

Top Scorers
Paisley 4, Adams 3, Wallace 1, McDonald 1

WC6[code:1:de38654205]
Halfassed Vs Tintinnabulation 3-1 (h) 4-2 (a)
Halfassed Vs Pavesia 4-3 (h) 0-0 (a)
Halfassed Vs Tiburon 3-0 (a) 2-0 (h)
Halfassed Vs Dead Man 1-1 (h) 5-2 (a)
Halfassed Vs Malundar 2-2 (h) 0-1 (a)
Halfassed Vs Aves 3-0 (a) 4-0 (h)
Halfassed Vs Vegemite 1-2 (h) 1-0 (a)

Halfassed Vs Errinundera 3-1 (n)
Halfassed Vs Europa Britannia 2-1 (n)
Halfassed Vs Akbarland 0-0 (n)

Halfassed Vs Kingsford 1-0 (n)

Halfassed Vs Spaam 0-0 {lost 1-3 on Pens.} (n)
[/code:1:de38654205]
Final record
P19 W12 D4 L3 GF40 GA19

Top Scorers
Wallace 16, Paisley 8, Adams 8, R.King 3{1 pen}, Hope 2, McDonald 2.

WC7[code:1:de38654205]
Halfassed Vs Akbarland 0-2 (a) 2-1 (h)
Halfassed Vs Tha Machine 4-1 (h) 4-0 (a)
Halfassed Vs Estiv 3-0 (a) 4-0 (h)
Halfassed Vs Melita and Gaulos 3-0 (h) 2-0 (a)
Halfassed Vs The Promise of Joshua 2-0 (a) 2-1 (h)

Halfassed Vs Dennisov 1-2 (n)
Halfassed Vs Timway 4-0 (n)
Halfassed Vs Squornshelous 3-1 (n)

Halfassed Vs The Belmore Family 2-1 (n)

Halfassed Vs Spamm 1-1 {1-2 AET} (n)
[/code:1:de38654205]
Final Record
P15 W12 D0 L3 GF37 GA10

Top Scorers
Hope 13, R.King 7, Wallace 6, Bundy 3, Murphy 3, Crewgar 2, Hendry 1, Samuelsson 1, Thumb 1.

WC8[code:1:de38654205]
Halfassed Vs Jekonuam 2-2 (h) 1-1 (a)
Halfassed Vs Bardai 6-0 (a) 3-0 (h)
Halfassed Vs Lord Squall 4-2 (h) 2-1 (a)
Halfassed Vs Simba Polo 2-0 (a) 1-1 (h)
Halfassed Vs Svecia 0-3 (a) 1-3 (h)

Halfassed Vs Audioslavia 2-1 (n)
Halfassed Vs The Belmore Family 1-1 (n)
Halfassed Vs Bullieon 1-1 (n)

Halfassed Vs Busby 2-3 (n)
[/code:1:de38654205]
Final Record
P14 W6 D5 L3 GF28 GA19

Top Scorers
Crewgar 8, Hope 7, Wallace 5, Bundy 5, J.King 2, Milton 1

WC9[code:1:de38654205]
Halfassed Vs Zinkoland 0-0 (h) 2-0 (a)
Halfassed Vs Kramerica 2-3 (a) 3-2 (h)
Halfassed Vs Tranquilitus 1-0 (h) 3-2 (a)
Halfassed Vs Endray-Island 2-0 (a) 1-2 (h)
Halfassed Vs Bedistan 1-0 (a) 1-1 (h)
Halfassed Vs Nikea 2-0 (a) 2-2 (h)
Halfassed Vs Antaeus Rising 1-0 (h) 2-0 (a)

Halfassed Vs Dennisov 1-1 (n)
Halfassed Vs West Arridia 4-2 (n)
Halfassed Vs Europa Britannia 0-3 (n)
[/code:1:de38654205]
Final Record
P17 W10 D4 L3 GF28 GA18

Top Scorers
Milton 14, Gunnett 8, Bundy 3, J.Time 1, Le Madeer 1, Thumb 1

WC10[code:1:de38654205]
Halfassed Vs Commerce Heights 0-2 (h) 2-1 (a)
Halfassed Vs Akbarland 0-1 (h) 2-0 (a)
Halfassed Vs The Arrivan Alliance 1-1 (h) 3-0 (a)
Halfassed Vs Moronwy 1-0 (a) 3-2 (h)
Halfassed Vs Kravoli 2-2 (h) 1-1 (a)
Halfassed Vs Pavesia 3-1 (a) 1-0 (h)
Halfassed Vs EL CID the HERO 3-1 (a) 1-0 (h)
Halfassed Vs Liverpool England 2-1 (a) 1-0 (h)

Halfassed Vs Kingsford 2-1 (n)
Halfassed Vs Nikea 1-2 (n)
Halfassed Vs Svecia 1-2 (n)[/code:1:de38654205]
Final Record
P19 W12 D3 L4 GF30 GA18

Top Scorers
Milton 10, Crewgar 7, Bundy 6, Gunnett 5, Lecter 1, Jones 1.

WC11[code:1:de38654205]
Halfassed Vs Commerce Heights 0-0 (h) 1-1 (a)
Halfassed Vs EL CID the HERO 0-0 (a) 4-1 (h)
Halfassed Vs Western Pie Makers 2-0 (h) 2-0 (a)
Halfassed Vs Oilermana 2-0 (a) 0-1 (h)
Halfassed Vs Kingsford 0-0 (a) 1-0 (h)
Halfassed Vs Defari 1-1 (h) 0-3 (a)
Halfassed Vs Monkwearmouth 3-0 (a) 5-1 (h)

Halfassed Vs Oddslavo 3-1 (n)
Halfassed Vs Nastic 2 3-1 (n)
Halfassed Vs Europa Brittannia 0-0 (n)

Halfassed Vs Total n Utter Insanity 3-0 (n)

Halfassed Vs Giant Zucchini 1-3 (n)[/code:1:de38654205]
Final Record
P19 W10 D6 L3 GF31 GA13

Top Scorers
Gunnet 12, Sherwood 10, Soap 3, Ducks 3, Lecter 1, Totti 1

All time record
P110 W64 D24 L22 GF203 GA111

All-time Top Scorers
Wallace 28, Gunnett 25, Milton 25, Hope 22, Bundy 17, Crewgar 17, Paisley 12, Adams 11, R.King 10, Sherwood 10

Longest Streaks
Games won - 9 during WC7 qualifying
Games Lost - 3 from WC9 finals to WC10 qualifying
Without losing - 15 during WC10 qualification and finals
Without winning - 5 from WC8 finals to WC9 qualifying



NB - Apologies again for all the stats and BUMP!

Edit to sort CH items

OOC:

I wish Gilmeecia would bring back international Competitive Peircing contests :DWe thought Competitive Piercing was a Tanah Burung sport originally?

(after reviewing HAs post, above, we were astonished to note that HA has never played SN38 :!: )

We don't know who Halfassedstates hates more.... Svecia who beat them 3 times, or us who beat them twice.... in the quarterfinals.

For those of you looking to participate in a fun, small sport, check out the NationStates Handball World Championship.
Here is the roleplay thread from NSHWC III:
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=117420
Here is the signups thread for NSHWC IV:
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=123160
We're always looking for more active roleplayers, so please sign up if you'd like to RP with other dedicated posters in a sport where you can actually take the time to read every post!

Longest Streaks
Without winning - 5 from WC8 finals to WC9 qualifying


Only five!?!?! In our terms, that's pathetic! :wink:

Before WCXII, NEWI's Longest Streaks...

Wins: 0
Defeats: 8 (WCXII Qualifying & CoH3)
Without Defeat: 3 (All draws, WCXIIQ)
Without Winning: [b]18[b/] (WCXIIQ + CoH3)

Longest Streaks
Games won - 9 during WC7 qualifying
Games Lost - 3 from WC9 finals to WC10 qualifying
Without losing - 15 during WC10 qualification and finals
Without winning - 5 from WC8 finals to WC9 qualifying

For us, it looks like:

Games won - 5 (WC6 qualifying and again in WC10 qualifying)
Games lost - 2 (WC5 qual, WC6 qual (x2), WC6 qual/1st rnd, WC7 qual, WC7, WC9, WC10 qual, WC11 qual)
Without losing - 9 (WC5 qual/1st rnd and again in WC6 qualifying)
Without winning - 9 (WC5 through WC6 qualifying)

Halfassed Vs Commercial Heights 0-0 (h) 1-1 (h)

Two problems - one of those games was in Commerce Heights and there is no such team as Commercial Heights. ;)

We don't know who Halfassedstates hates more.... Svecia who beat them 3 times, or us who beat them twice.... in the quarterfinals.

Well - I have got another shot at Svecia this time and have got a point off them finally :D
And as Spaam killed off our chances in 2 successive cups, i'd probably say Spaam were hated more (even thought tey ain't beat us over 90 minutes yet!! :wink: )


On the piercing thing - how'd that work again? It was sort of coming to an end when i started getting involved in the WC and i never got to join in :cry:

@ SN38 - don't worry theres always the WC12 final :wink:

Halfassed Vs Commercial Heights 0-0 (h) 1-1 (h)

Two problems - one of those games was in Commerce Heights and there is no such team as Commercial Heights. ;)

Apologies CH - have edited it now.
Had just got that used to calling you CH all the time CH. I had done it for so long CH, that I actually forgot what the CH stood for! Sorry CH. - You know what I mean though CH, don't ya? :wink:

Ps. It won't happen again CH :D

Pps. Dagnamit these forums are a pain in the Ass!

Halfassed Vs Commercial Heights 0-0 (h) 1-1 (h)

Two problems - one of those games was in Commerce Heights and there is no such team as Commercial Heights. ;)

Apologies CH - have edited it now.
Had just got that used to calling you CH all the time CH. I had done it for so long CH, that I actually forgot what the CH stood for! Sorry CH. - You know what I mean though CH, don't ya? :wink:

Ps. It won't happen again CH :D

Pps. Dagnamit these forums are a pain in the Ass!

@ SN38 - don't worry theres always the WC12 final :wink: :shock:

This is the kind of thinking I like!

8)

For those interested, the Ministry of Athletics, Olympics, and Alcoholic Beverages, in conjuction with the Snub Nose 38 Football Association and the Runaway Moose Football Association, will be supplying information relative to our bid to co-host World Cup 13 at the following location.

Snub Nose 38-Runaway Moose Co-host Bid Information (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=123203&highlight=)

Please stop by and have a look.

Lemmy want to get someone on the link collections and copy the first post into a new thread.

Sports Room Link (irc://irc.esper.net/sport)

Wanted

Person to restart this thread with the first post updated. They would be incharge of keeping it up to date.

Added U21.

e. A well paying job, that includes LOTS of math (Comptroller/Financial Manager).

Comptroller, eh? I kind of wondered what SN38 did for a living. I guessed it might have something to do with payroll administration, I'm not sure why. Nice to have a well-paying job when you have 4 kids, I imagine. I hope to have one of those myself one day.

Lemmy want to get someone on the link collections and copy the first post into a new thread.

Sports Room Link (irc://irc.esper.net/sport)

I think I might have asked Spaam if he wanted to do it. If not, Spaam, do you want to be in charge of a new sports link thread?

e. A well paying job, that includes LOTS of math (Comptroller/Financial Manager).

Comptroller, eh? I kind of wondered what SN38 did for a living. I guessed it might have something to do with payroll administration, I'm not sure why. Nice to have a well-paying job when you have 4 kids, I imagine. I hope to have one of those myself one day.Well...well paying is a relative thing. On the other end of the scale were a couple of jobs in theatre that I enjoyed - but created certain cash-flow problems. Those were back in the "early days".

(I deleted that post - in retrospect it amounted to spam in the scores thread)

Lemmy want to get someone on the link collections and copy the first post into a new thread.

Sports Room Link (irc://irc.esper.net/sport)

I think I might have asked Spaam if he wanted to do it. If not, Spaam, do you want to be in charge of a new sports link thread?

God.... I guess.
But can you post like second in the thread, just in case?
I'll do something with it tomorrow.

I'll do it!

Here's the new thread:
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=125942