NationStates Jolt Archive

and just wondering my flag is a nazi flag with the red background and the white circle, but with the swastika removed and snuggles the fabric softner bear in the middle, is there a problem with that?


ROTFLMFAO! Dude, that is the funniest thing I've ever seen! :cool:

Okay, let me rephrase that question:

If I do everything exactly the same as I have been doing, but fly that flag while doing it, will I get deleted?

Also, what is wrong with my current flag, X-tremia? Other than it being totally awesome. Are skulls too scary for you?

"Continually replacing forbidden images with different forbidden images is, pardon me for saying so, verboten."

"With the history of behavior and problems with Der Reichsprotektor, it was judged that the flag was being used specifically to use a symbol in a malicious way while trying to avoid getting caught."


DRP was deleted because it was believed from prior record, that the intention of the flag was to maliciously use a swastika to offend. Is this the consensus?

Does this mean that a mod or mods found my attempt at humor to be offensive?

The Brand New Stein of Der Reichsprotektor
Motto: "Adolf Hitler was a naughty, naughty man."
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/kameraden/simpsonsflag1.jpg

If so, then why the move to delete? I can understand the dismay in having to ban a second DRP flag in less than two weeks, and that you wished for me to discuss my flag ideas here, rather than to fly them first. But I honestly believe a telegram warning would have served that purpose.

Or are you suggesting that DRP was deleted due entirely to Der Reichsprotektor's history and the use of a nazi swastika? If so, then I would have to say that you would have to have an incredibly low opinion of me. The last time DRP flew a swastika flag was prior to the original swastika ban. Could someone have really assumed that I was just flying a swastika to get myself deleted?

I am certain my full history does not indicate that I would take such a foolish action. Or are you referring only to more recent history? Was it the proximity of the Bruno Ganz flag to the Simpsons flag? If it is the distant past, then could you elaborate on DRP's "behavior and problems"? I would greatly appreciate it.

Are skulls too scary for you?The main problem with the skulls was that it was almost exclusively the insignia of the SS units on concentration camp guard duty. Hence, they are very likely to offend people (even if the SS copied it from German hussar regiments).

The main problem with the skulls was that it was almost exclusively the insignia of the SS units on concentration camp guard duty. Hence, they are very likely to offend people (even if the SS copied it from German hussar regiments).

That's probably something that most people don't know though (I sure didn't), so I'm not so sure if it'll likely offend a majority of people.

The main problem with the skulls was that it was almost exclusively the insignia of the SS units on concentration camp guard duty. Hence, they are very likely to offend people (even if the SS copied it from German hussar regiments).

Yeah, you know, another interesting factoid about skulls is that they are part of the human anatomy. Hell, you probably even have one.

Are the crossed hammers from Pink Floyd's The Wall in the verboten-zone? They represent Nazism, or something like it, but would they offend people?

(I'm not likely to use it, as I am very much in favour of realistic flags (no teddy bears for me!), but it'd be interesting to know.)

Are the crossed hammers from Pink Floyd's The Wall in the verboten-zone? They represent Nazism, or something like it, but would they offend people?

(I'm not likely to use it, as I am very much in favour of realistic flags (no teddy bears for me!), but it'd be interesting to know.)I think what most people find offensive is the inappropriate use of symbols that have a very serious meaning. That would not include the usage of symbols representing said symbols, as is the case in "The Great Dictator" and any German version of a WWII game.
In the end, to me, it's perfectly fine to use something that "represents" a swastika, since it's a sign of respect to what happened not to use the real thing.

Originally Posted by Laerod
The main problem with the skulls was that it was almost exclusively the insignia of the SS units on concentration camp guard duty. Hence, they are very likely to offend people (even if the SS copied it from German hussar regiments).

Sorry to tell you this, but the Deaths Head Skull was the insignia used by all SS officers, including Waffen-SS. THe same motif was also used by the German tank corps.

Sorry to tell you this, but the Deaths Head Skull was the insignia used by all SS officers, including Waffen-SS. THe same motif was also used by the German tank corps.In my experience, the SS Totenkpfverbände (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenkopfverb%C3%A4nde) (Deathshead Units) were the ones assigned to the Concentration Camps.

I've come full circle on this issue. As a Marxist, I am proud of the Soviet victory (even though the USSR betrayed Marxism as early as '24) over fascism, but I think censoring a flag because some people feel funny about it is stupid. We can't force the world to see things our way. The world is a messy, gritty place with a lot of screwed up people, and the fact is, there are a lot of countries present that would not hesitate to use the 3rd Reich blood flag as their symbol. So what if people feel offended by a flag? It is a piece of cloth, and if they get hung up about that sort of thing, fine, let them. But you can't stop reality from being real, so let's keep this as real as possible.

Christina

I've come full circle on this issue. <-snippage->So what if people feel offended by a flag? It is a piece of cloth, and if they get hung up about that sort of thing, fine, let them. But you can't stop reality from being real, so let's keep this as real as possible.

Christina


Then how about the real point of this, which 'coming full circle' you seem to have missed:

The owner of the site has said this is how it is. Period. You don't like it, oh well. You don't own the site. You don't contribute anything to it monetarily to keep it running. All any of us do is spend time here in whatever manner we've chosen to use this free site.

Doesn't matter if anyone thinks it's silly. It's the rules. And as we all agreed to abiding by the rules when we created a nation here, it behooves us to at least make an effort at that - whether we agree with all the rules or not.

Yes, there are avenues for appeal. This one has remained firm from the get-go, and they have made it clear that it is not changing. This isn't about free speech, or freedom of expression, or 'keeping it real' despite what some misguided people seem to think. It's about the right of the owner to decide what he will and will not allow, and those of us taking free advantage of his creation being mature and respectful enough to abide by that.

Which apparently is just too much for some. You want to crusade and rant or have a place where everything you think ought to be allowed is? Get a blog (http://blogspot.com) or online journal (http://www.livejournal.com/) or your own forums (http://invisionfree.com/) where you have the right to decide what stays and what goes.

It's dead, Jim. Quit beating it with a stick already.

Then how about the real point of this, which 'coming full circle' you seem to have missed:

The owner of the site has said this is how it is. Period. You don't like it, oh well. You don't own the site. You don't contribute anything to it monetarily to keep it running. All any of us do is spend time here in whatever manner we've chosen to use this free site.

Doesn't matter if anyone thinks it's silly. It's the rules. And as we all agreed to abiding by the rules when we created a nation here, it behooves us to at least make an effort at that - whether we agree with all the rules or not.

Yes, there are avenues for appeal. This one has remained firm from the get-go, and they have made it clear that it is not changing. This isn't about free speech, or freedom of expression, or 'keeping it real' despite what some misguided people seem to think. It's about the right of the owner to decide what he will and will not allow, and those of us taking free advantage of his creation being mature and respectful enough to abide by that.

Which apparently is just too much for some. You want to crusade and rant or have a place where everything you think ought to be allowed is? Get a blog (http://blogspot.com) or online journal (http://www.livejournal.com/) or your own forums (http://invisionfree.com/) where you have the right to decide what stays and what goes.

It's dead, Jim. Quit beating it with a stick already.


Don't bother, Nathi. I posted something on the same lines three times in this thread and they still won't listen.

Eh, so did I and several others. Figured I'd at least link some options on the offhand chance of being somewhat helpful. *shrugs* In any case, really no need to quote back the whole post that's just before yours like that, neh? S' spammy. (Just an opinion.)

Sorry, I'm used to just clicking quote and typing, as when I actually DO venture onto non-RP forums, by the time I post, it could be on the next page.

My nation has a crosshairs on its flag. This represents Mirkana's militaristic nature, as well as an allusion to their vaunted marksmanship.

I doubt that a skull would offend most people, since it is usually seen as a symbol of death in general. It certainly wouldn't offend me - and I am Jewish.

There have been several nations that I know of which were designed around the 'pirate fleet' concept for RP: Flags bearing the 'skull & crossbones' would also have been appropriate for them, and would have been PRE-Nazi in that context...

There have been several nations that I know of which were designed around the 'pirate fleet' concept for RP: Flags bearing the 'skull & crossbones' would also have been appropriate for them, and would have been PRE-Nazi in that context...

Yes. ONCE AGAIN. They don't ban, to roughly quote [violet], 'particular patterns of coloured pixels'. Most people would find pirates funny, weird or dull, but not offensive. Of course, were their motto 'we rape children' and their animal 'the Spaniard', it might be different. They're not saying 'all skulls are associated with Nazis'. They're saying blatant use of the Totenkopf is clearly trolling.

Kimia demands the banning of all symbols associated with capitalism as capitalism has been responsible for colonialism, the 14 hour day, class priviledge, the 7 day working week, children in coalmines, the Opium Wars, the Massacre of the Paris Commune, slavery, the Spanish-American War, the Boer War, starvation, apartheid, anti-Union laws, the First World War, Flanders, tranch warfare, mustard gas, aerial bombing, the Soviet Intervention, the Armenian Genocide, chemical weapons, fascism, the Great Depression, hunger marches, Nazism, the Spanish Civil War, militarism, Asbestosis, radiation death, the Massacre of Nanking, the Second World War, Belsen, Aufshwitz, Dresden, Hiroshima, racism, the Korean War, DDT, McCarthyism, production lines, black lists, Talidomide, the rape of the 3rd world, poverty, the arms race, plastic surgery, the electric chair, environmental degradation, the Vietnam War, the military suppression of Greece, Chile, Malaya, Indonesia, India, El Salvador, Panama, Nicaragua, Turkey and West Papua, the Gulf War, the trade of human body parts, malnutrition, Exxon Valdez, deforestation, organised crime, the heroin and cocaine trade, Tuberculosis, the destruction of the Ozone Layer, exploitation of labour and the deaths of 50 000 000 communists and trade unions, in the 20th century alone. There are many more crimes... like Iraq, Grenada, Afghanistan, the arming of Saddam Hussein, and so on.

I think these crimes far outshadow the errors of socialism.

Kimia demands the banning of all symbols associated with capitalism as capitalism has been responsible for colonialism, the 14 hour day, class priviledge, the 7 day working week, children in coalmines, the Opium Wars, the Massacre of the Paris Commune, slavery, the Spanish-American War, the Boer War, starvation, apartheid, anti-Union laws, the First World War, Flanders, tranch warfare, mustard gas, aerial bombing, the Soviet Intervention, the Armenian Genocide, chemical weapons, fascism, the Great Depression, hunger marches, Nazism, the Spanish Civil War, militarism, Asbestosis, radiation death, the Massacre of Nanking, the Second World War, Belsen, Aufshwitz, Dresden, Hiroshima, racism, the Korean War, DDT, McCarthyism, production lines, black lists, Talidomide, the rape of the 3rd world, poverty, the arms race, plastic surgery, the electric chair, environmental degradation, the Vietnam War, the military suppression of Greece, Chile, Malaya, Indonesia, India, El Salvador, Panama, Nicaragua, Turkey and West Papua, the Gulf War, the trade of human body parts, malnutrition, Exxon Valdez, deforestation, organised crime, the heroin and cocaine trade, Tuberculosis, the destruction of the Ozone Layer, exploitation of labour and the deaths of 50 000 000 communists and trade unions, in the 20th century alone. There are many more crimes... like Iraq, Grenada, Afghanistan, the arming of Saddam Hussein, and so on.

I think these crimes far outshadow the errors of socialism.

Denied.

So...is my flag acceptable?

So...is my flag acceptable?To my knowledge, there is no reason why the mods would remove your flag.

Denied.


We are appalled by your decision not even to give a reason as to why you have refused our demands! The discussions about fascism and socialist were clearly discussed, yet capitalism's crimes are far worse than any of those movements.

We are appalled by your decision not even to give a reason as to why you have refused our demands!Because the owner and creator of NationStates has, repeatedly, stated that such claims are without base and/or facetious.

BLAH BLAH BLAHGuess what Einstein? Nobody cares about your hatred against capitalism. Just drop the issue.

yet capitalism's crimes are far worse than any of those movements.

85% of the 'crimes' you listed have nothing to do with capitalism or aren't crimes at all [production lines are bad?] and most of the rest could equally be blamed on politics. Or wool.

Is this acceptable?

The Genocidal Nazi Death Cult of Palistinian Fascists (http://www.nationstates.net/32942/page=display_nation/nation=palistinian_fascists)

Its seems pretty offensive to me, but it's got a population of 1.73 billion, so I think they must have been around for a very long time.

MY flag has a marijuana leaf is that ok

Tadzikistan: I think in the case of that particular nation, the whole package would have to be considered, in which case, IMHO, I'd err on the side of "delete". Taking just the flag, it may cause offence (I'm thinking mainly Israelis and those affected by 9/11, Once de Mars and 7/7), however it's not specifically against the rules, so the Mods would require their own judgement. I have, however, raised a complaint myself on Getting Help while typing this.

Reeferworld: The marijuana leaf should be acceptable - remember, marijuana is legal in a number of countries (eg Jamaica, The Netherlands). Again, judgement required from the Mods and Admin on this one.

DISCLAIMER - Not a Mod, these words are not gospel.

ok good, cause it would suck to get banned

The first thing you think of when you see an American flag mostly likely won't be of murder and genocide.

Only if you don't know recent and ancient history.... or history at all.

In my case, I feel sickened by seeing the US flag. To me it represents murder and mayhem. Suppression, genocide, torture, dictatorships, assassinations etc. is equally depicted in that flag. Lies, falsehoods, corruption is also closely associated with that flag in my opinion. Why do you think there are so many US flag burnings around the world? Because people LIKE the flag? No, quite the opposite. They burn it since it represents to them the above issues.

In my opinion (not that it matters much) people playing this game should be free to choose/construct their own flag in the way they like (porn kept out though for obvious reasons)... or as "Verstummelung" pointed out, all major flags (and anything that remotely resembles them) should be forbidden as well.

Feel free to disagree, and NO, I do not expect a change in the rules since bigotry is what keeps this world moving.

Feel free to disagree, and NO, I do not expect a change in the rules since bigotry is what keeps this world moving.
Bigotry? Anyway, the reason why the swastika represents torture, murder, and malice more than the US flag is because in its 12 years of existence as a state flag, that's pretty much the only thing the regime that flew it was bent upon. The US flag represents more than just extorting 3rd World nations, exporting toxic waste to India, and killing native Americans.

Bigotry? Anyway, the reason why the swastika represents torture, murder, and malice more than the US flag is because in its 12 years of existence as a state flag, that's pretty much the only thing the regime that flew it was bent upon. The US flag represents more than just extorting 3rd World nations, exporting toxic waste to India, and killing native Americans.
That is true in a sense, but the difference is that the swastica flag does not represent any nation of today, while the US flag does, and the US flag represents ONGOING torture, murder, invasions, oppression, blackmail etc. etc.

What happened 60 years ago, and which was stopped in it's track, is one thing, but what has beein going on in the past 60 years until this day, and will continue tomorrow, is what we should be REALLY concerned about. We can not change the past, but we CAN change the present and the future. Especially by using the knowledge provided by our history.

Now the US want's to be free to use torture in order to gain information from terror SUSPECTS... so that it can no longer be said that they use torture illegally... What will be the next thing they want? To give their soldiers the right to rape and steal... so that noone can claim their soldiers are doing something illegal?

The Nazi's were stopped 60 years ago, and that was quite fine. But now it is up to OUR generations to stop the current abuse that takes place around us.

Am I getting off topic again? ... better stop here then.

I think the central difference between Nazi Germany and the flag of the United States is that the US, regardless of it's ongoing murder and blackmail hasn't killed 8 million Jews, Homosexuals and Metally Retarted folk - maybe, if your accusations come out right, they will in the future, but up to now, they haven't - so, there'sa tiny winy difference.

I think the central difference between Nazi Germany and the flag of the United States is that the US, regardless of it's ongoing murder and blackmail hasn't killed 8 million Jews, Homosexuals and Metally Retarted folk - maybe, if your accusations come out right, they will in the future, but up to now, they haven't - so, there'sa tiny winy difference.

Well, maybe there is a difference in the nationality of the victims, but that's about the only thing.

Here, take a look at this:

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa01.html
http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa02.html
http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html
http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa04.html
http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa05.html

Regard this as being the CV (Curriculum Vitae) for the US applying to become a member of the world community... if someone seeking a membership in an exclusive club had such a long list of criminal activities... that person would never be allowed in, and probably it would be arrested or shot on sight.

This thread isn't meant for a political discussion, so I'll offer my final view, you may offer yours, and I just won't reply to this specific topic anymore; but I think this deserves at least one response.

Yes, it's true and unfortunate that the CIA has sponsored the rise, and even fall, of dictatorships, including murderous dictatorships like Pol Pot's, although evidence concerning that specific case is more circumstantial - I just finished a research paper on this for my political science class so I'm pretty up to date on this information -, nonetheless, you can't weigh the past history of the CIA with that of Nazi Germany - there is just no way you can do it. And hey, if you're going to look at the past discrepencies of the CIA why don't you drop the bias and look at other governments as well? I mean, your argument looses all credibility when all you target is the United States. For example, France. Did you know that France backed the Hutu government even with open knowledge on the genocide which claimed six hundred thousand lives in Rwanda and then another six hundred thousand in Zaire. I mean, it's not only just a case of not wanting to intervene, it's the case that France supplied them ordnance during the genocide. Other examples; let's take examples of regimes that the United States has toppled for some reason or another. Saddam Hussein; Hussein murdered over one hundred thousand Kurds - now, I don't agree with the reasons Bush went to war, but I do agree with the war because of that simple fact, Hussein was a murdered. The fact that Bush lied is irrelevent to the purpose and agreement to the war in my personal view - at some point I did agree with an invasion; unfortunately, Bush distorted the reality, when he really shouldn't have, and he really didn't have to.

The actions of the CIA have a lot to do with the Soviet Union and the Cold War, but I guess that doesn't offer any appeal to give the CIA more sympathy. In that case, it shouldn't for the KGB and it's foreign intelligence department either, because true enough, they sponsored their own 'people's' dictatorships in Eastern Europe and in Asia - dictatorships in countries that had openly expressed their disgust [Czechoslovakia and Hungary ring a bell?].

So, for now, let me just ask you to please not single out the United States because the fact that you're right doesn't really matter, because if you take a look, every major world power acts the same exact way.

--------

In terms of the flag policy, frankly I don't think anybody cares about your view on the United State's flag. The truth holds that in general people don't get the same connotation when they see the American flag and when they see the Nazi flag - perhaps because the majority of the players on this game are from the Western world as opposed from the Middle East. If that's the case, that's the case.

I've recently changed the flag of my nation.
I would like to hear your opinion about my new flag, please.
http://www.nationstates.net/volkinia

I've recently changed the flag of my nation.
I would like to hear your opinion about my new flag, please.
http://www.nationstates.net/volkinia

Well, personally, I don't see any problem with it; it follows the guideline of a confederate flag, but when I first saw it I really didn't equate it with the confederacy or racism...so you should be fine.

This thread isn't meant for a political discussion, so I'll offer my final view, you may offer yours, and I just won't reply to this specific topic anymore; but I think this deserves at least one response.

--SNIP--

So, for now, let me just ask you to please not single out the United States because the fact that you're right doesn't really matter, because if you take a look, every major world power acts the same exact way.


****CLAPS****

So, for now, let me just ask you to please not single out the United States because the fact that you're right doesn't really matter, because if you take a look, every major world power acts the same exact way.

So what you are saying, is that even if the US is raping my nation, I should not hold any grudge or point it out as being a thron in my eye, because there are OTHER countries who have done bad things to OTHER nations earlier?

I am sure you will understand that I don't fall down on my knees, clapping my hands like a trained sea-lion when you suggest that I should follow your advice.

If you want to keep your focus on everyone else, please do so, since it is absolutely legitimate and abuse should be stopped, no matter who is carrying it out... but that doesn't make the crimes of the US any lesser. Often people can't see the forest because all the trees block the view.

I am sure you will understand that I don't fall down on my knees, clapping my hands like a trained sea-lion when you suggest that I should follow your advice.

If that was a flame directed at me then i would suggest that you retract it. I wouldn't want to report you to the Mods for it.

If that was a flame directed at me then i would suggest that you retract it. I wouldn't want to report you to the Mods for it.
Did you anywhere state that you were a sea-lion? If not, you should not be worried about this being directed at you. If you continue to assume I was trying to flame you, I will have no option but to report you to the mods, for harrassment!

This is NOT a debate thread regarding the US, gentlebeings. The same tired arguments have been repeated endlessly.

Enough.