NationStates Jolt Archive

Regional Happenings
2 minutes ago: The United States of TIRAD departed this region for The Rejected Realms
2 minutes ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The United States of TIRAD from the region.
2 minutes ago: The Republic of Tango Sierra departed this region for The Rejected Realms
2 minutes ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The Republic of Tango Sierra from the region.
2 minutes ago: The Republic of Tango Sierra arrived from Pacific Army.
2 minutes ago: The United States of TIRAD arrived from Pacific Army.
3 minutes ago: The Republic of PieOgrad departed this region for The Rejected Realms
3 minutes ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The Republic of PieOgrad from the region.
4 minutes ago: The United Socialist States of SniperZone departed this region for The Rejected Realms
4 minutes ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The United Socialist States of SniperZone from the region.
all he does is get rid of people. a guy just said "hey" and he was ejected.

and worst of all,
he booted all nations with 300 endorsments so that only he can be in power. all the hard work those nations put it, and they are banned by him.

wehave asked the mods to stop this man, but all we get "well, he isnt THAT bad". he has wronged many, stop him.

if he isnt a local/native, then he needs to unban teh nations he ejects isnt he a new immigrant from some other region?

if he isnt a local/native, then he needs to unban teh nations he ejects isnt he a new immigrant from some other region?

i think he is new there and banning all the old guy

[arent you a delegate for one of the pacifics? your name seems familar]

2 minutes ago: The Republic of Tango Sierra arrived from Pacific Army.
2 minutes ago: The United States of TIRAD arrived from Pacific Army.

Look where they came from. That could be considered a hint.

and worst of all,
he booted all nations with 300 endorsments so that only he can be in power. all the hard work those nations put it, and they are banned by him.

How many different ways to the mods have to say that such practices are legal?

2 minutes ago: The Republic of Tango Sierra arrived from Pacific Army.
2 minutes ago: The United States of TIRAD arrived from Pacific Army.

Look where they came from. That could be considered a hint.

and worst of all,
he booted all nations with 300 endorsments so that only he can be in power. all the hard work those nations put it, and they are banned by him.

How many different ways to the mods have to say that such practices are legal?


From the World fact book of Rejected Regions: The various nations ejected from The Pacific should know that a home-in-exile has been established for them in the region of Pacific Army.

Apparently you do not know what is going on in your own game. So you will have to come up with some new ways to say it’s legal. Most of us can see through BS.

if he isnt a local/native, then he needs to unban teh nations he ejects isnt he a new immigrant from some other region?
And you should know how it's done, you're infamous for preemptively ejecting anyone in The East Pacific that gets too many endorsements. :roll:

2 minutes ago: The Republic of Tango Sierra arrived from Pacific Army.
2 minutes ago: The United States of TIRAD arrived from Pacific Army.

Look where they came from. That could be considered a hint.

and worst of all,
he booted all nations with 300 endorsments so that only he can be in power. all the hard work those nations put it, and they are banned by him.

How many different ways to the mods have to say that such practices are legal?


From the World fact book of Rejected Regions: The various nations ejected from The Pacific should know that a home-in-exile has been established for them in the region of Pacific Army.

Apparently you do not know what is going on in your own game. So you will have to come up with some new ways to say it’s legal. Most of us can see through BS.

agreed.

A "large number' of nations varies by the region's population. Tell me, how many nations are in the Pacific?

this was just osted by Francos Spain,

The Dominion of Francos Spain Nations are ejected if they spam, use excessive profanity, have offensive names/flags/mottos, are political rivals, are puppets moved in by nations already banned for one of the previous offenses.

he is accusing happy lil bunnies of spam, he posted one message asking if the new delegate had a stand on a UN issue,
Franco then booted him,
posted a querrie how do you feel about the current resolution, then accuses him of spamming,

(sorry I have been watching this invasion)

this was just osted by Francos Spain,

The Dominion of Francos Spain Nations are ejected if they spam, use excessive profanity, have offensive names/flags/mottos, are political rivals, are puppets moved in by nations already banned for one of the previous offenses.

he is accusing happy lil bunnies of spam, he posted one message asking if the new delegate had a stand on a UN issue,
Franco then booted him,
posted a querrie how do you feel about the current resolution, then accuses him of spamming,

(sorry I have been watching this invasion)

i seen that. it pissed me off. the mods need to put back th old delegate

if he isnt a local/native, then he needs to unban teh nations he ejects isnt he a new immigrant from some other region?
And you should know how it's done, you're infamous for preemptively ejecting anyone in The East Pacific that gets too many endorsements. :roll:

I dont indescriminantly ban people 15 or so at a time, nor do I ban them for jsut asking me my opinion on a Un resolution,

Ok, so the new delegate is cleaning house...is that illegal? Nope. Dont like the new delegate, create a new region.

When this happened in the South Pacific , twice- once with the XYZ affair and again with the Fathoms Below, Neutered Sputniks ruled it was perfectly legal. Has the ruling changed on ejection power? To my recollection it hasn't. Not that I'm a supporter of Francos Spain but if this is seen as an offense that justifies Mod action I'm going to be some angered we were put through all of that based on a bad decision.

Ok, so the new delegate is cleaning house...is that illegal? Nope. Dont like the new delegate, create a new region.

Understood, but I would recommend watching the region for a while, thsi guy doesnt seem to be on the level,

listen dictator,

you say the P. army are wrong?! they protected this region, along with many others. but you sniveled your way up the ranks, banned all the good members, and ejected everyone that isnt up to your standards.

you have lost 50 endorsements in one day, you are falling, and falling hard. get ready for the end.

-a TG to him from me. he didnt answer :wink:

Don't waste your time. Mods are in this game to have some fun, not to babysit regions.
Democracy is working nevertheless. Franco now has only 312 endorsements, so he lost around 80.

Here is something i saw on the regional status:

"# Seconds ago: The Oppressed Peoples of Hannasbum departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The Oppressed Peoples of Hannasbum from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Dictatorship of McBeersica departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The Dictatorship of McBeersica from the region.
# 1 minute ago: The Republic of Atahtipesh departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# 1 minute ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The Republic of Atahtipesh from the region.
# 1 minute ago: The Republic of Maledicta departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# 1 minute ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The Republic of Maledicta from the region."

All that happened 2 minutes before the regional update, when the happenings got cleared. Don't you think he's trying to cowardly hide his actions?
He banned a lot of natives: Teridactyl, Amanda Angel, The Concodia River, Istabardin, Oddsville, Crazy girl, Bleasdale, Thedoc, Savage, Daciana (my own nation...), Zyonn, MVS, Pak-land, House Vandree, etc.... with no warning and for no real good purpose. Some of them are not even UN members, and only 3 or 4 of them had more than 200 endorsements. Ixxi for example has not been active in the past 7 days, and wasn't even a UN member, although everyone knows her, and it's not a puppet. He just banned her because she said at a time something about her sexual orientations, not to be said here. I posted some other things on the message boards, read them there if you wish.

And make that 311 endorsements.

It appears that InfernoIce and Francos Spain are one and the same person. Well, that means the Pacific is dead...

------------------ :oops: ---------------------

--------------- :oops: -------------------

Corinthe, my nation is "Daciana". This one i created so i could still enter The Pacific and post there. Daciana got banned very quickly when Francos became delegate... :? With this one i enter and leave in a hurry after i post my message, so i don't get banned. On short, every nation old enough in the Pacific and with enough endorsement got banned. :evil:
Well, what's special... Pacific used to be my home... :(

We can't build a strong force and rush in, cause he quickly eject almost anyone who comes into that region. He even ejected people that had nothing to do with us. He even ejected a friend of his :lol:

------------ :oops: --------------

Ok, so the new delegate is cleaning house...is that illegal? Nope. Dont like the new delegate, create a new region.

Oh he cleaning house is he? He's cleaning out all of his political opponents, people who have not endorsed him, people he does not know.

Tell me, do you think Saddam, Stalin and Hitler were just cleaning house when they executed millions of people?

Either you can remove this griefer now, or we wait a few weeks while his endorsements drop. The result will be the same, it's just a question of how many people you annoy in the process.

_________ :oops: _________

So, the Pacific Army and those that supported the previous Delegate dont like this new one because he's started cleaning house, and ejected you and your friends from a starter region.


I'd like to mention that THERE ARE NO NATIVES. Stop using that term to attempt to get this guy removed. There was NO INVASION. Therefore, no natives. Go find everywhere that Native's been defined.


Now, the way I see it, you all can quit spamming the boards and griefing the new delegate, or you can all be warned and DEATed.


Here's the way it works. There are thousands of nations in the Pacific region. It's a feeder region. Ejecting 100+ nations with offensive names and those attempting to overthrow the Delegate is not exactly as untowardly as people are trying to make this seem.

If his actions are so horrible, how come he's still delegate? Obviously he holds the popular vote. And an argument that he ejects anyone else who gets close doesnt account for the 300+ endorsements he still holds. Apparently, there are still nations that support this delegate and his actions to clean up his region.





I'll leave with this again: Those of you engaging in griefing the new delegate, using puppets to jump in, post, and jump out, etc. YOU are engaged in illegal activity against a legal Delegate. This is your warning to stop. Further griefing will be dealt with quite strictly as 3+ Mods have declared the new Delegate's actions to be legal. This thread is becoming griefing as well.

Is Francos Spain a member of an invasion group??

Is Francos Spain a member of an invasion group??


Does it matter?

What Neut is saying is your region is a feeder region. It has no founder for a reason. The Pacifics were meant as a start point from every ruling I've seen, not a place to stay. Mods are not meant to take on the role of founder in the Pacifics and they won't intervene as such.
It's disheartening yes, but if you really want the region back its not impossible. You have to get it in your head the newest delegate got the endorsements because your region gave them to him. You cry un democratic but it was thru a democratic process that 300+ nations gave Franco willingly. Pay heed to what Neutered Sputniks is saying, believe it or not according to the rules the self proclaimed natives are the bad guys here by the actions you are taking. You keep pressing the issue here you'll do nothing but earn the wrath of the mods. They've given you the ruling 3 times now and each time the response is getting stronger and stronger. I'd advise you to take the hint and do some research, the SP was in your position before twice and they overcame.

What Neut is saying is your region is a feeder region. It has no founder for a reason. The Pacifics were meant as a start point from every ruling I've seen, not a place to stay. Mods are not meant to take on the role of founder in the Pacifics and they won't intervene as such.
It's disheartening yes, but if you really want the region back its not impossible. You have to get it in your head the newest delegate got the endorsements because your region gave them to him. You cry un democratic but it was thru a democratic process that 300+ nations gave Franco willingly. Pay heed to what Neutered Sputniks is saying, believe it or not according to the rules the self proclaimed natives are the bad guys here by the actions you are taking. You keep pressing the issue here you'll do nothing but earn the wrath of the mods. They've given you the ruling 3 times now and each time the response is getting stronger and stronger. I'd advise you to take the hint and do some research, the SP was in your position before twice and they overcame.


*wonders if anyone else hs caught the irony of these players griefing the legal delegate because they accuse him of griefing...*

What Neut is saying is your region is a feeder region. It has no founder for a reason. The Pacifics were meant as a start point from every ruling I've seen, not a place to stay. Mods are not meant to take on the role of founder in the Pacifics and they won't intervene as such.
It's disheartening yes, but if you really want the region back its not impossible. You have to get it in your head the newest delegate got the endorsements because your region gave them to him. You cry un democratic but it was thru a democratic process that 300+ nations gave Franco willingly. Pay heed to what Neutered Sputniks is saying, believe it or not according to the rules the self proclaimed natives are the bad guys here by the actions you are taking. You keep pressing the issue here you'll do nothing but earn the wrath of the mods. They've given you the ruling 3 times now and each time the response is getting stronger and stronger. I'd advise you to take the hint and do some research, the SP was in your position before twice and they overcame.


*wonders if anyone else hs caught the irony of these players griefing the legal delegate because they accuse him of griefing...*

Loud and clear, pretty sure they haven't though....

2 minutes ago: The Republic of Tango Sierra arrived from Pacific Army.
2 minutes ago: The United States of TIRAD arrived from Pacific Army.

Look where they came from. That could be considered a hint.

and worst of all,
he booted all nations with 300 endorsments so that only he can be in power. all the hard work those nations put it, and they are banned by him.

How many different ways to the mods have to say that such practices are legal?
I was under the impression that what he is doing is considered Greifing which according the the FAQ is illegal. if thats not the case then explain.

"Once I've taken over a region, can I eject everyone else?
No. Region crashing by itself is a legitimate tactic to seize power, but ejecting large numbers of nations is griefing. It can be a fine line between region crashing and griefing. Players who enjoy launching invasions should take care to stay on the right side."-FAQ

2 minutes ago: The Republic of Tango Sierra arrived from Pacific Army.
2 minutes ago: The United States of TIRAD arrived from Pacific Army.

Look where they came from. That could be considered a hint.

and worst of all,
he booted all nations with 300 endorsments so that only he can be in power. all the hard work those nations put it, and they are banned by him.

How many different ways to the mods have to say that such practices are legal?
I was under the impression that what he is doing is considered Greifing which according the the FAQ is illegal. if thats not the case then explain.

"Once I've taken over a region, can I eject everyone else?
No. Region crashing by itself is a legitimate tactic to seize power, but ejecting large numbers of nations is griefing. It can be a fine line between region crashing and griefing. Players who enjoy launching invasions should take care to stay on the right side."-FAQ


He didn't crash the region, he came in sought endorsements and got a sufficient number to take the seat. He didn't bring an invading force. As far as ejections he's allowed 40%. You don't believe me look it up. what's 40% of 4300? He's not even close. Ejection based on political opposition has been ruled legal. You are all spinning your wheels looking for help here. There's none to be had. The power shift was 100% legal, legit and your region handed it to Franco on a silver platter.

2 minutes ago: The Republic of Tango Sierra arrived from Pacific Army.
2 minutes ago: The United States of TIRAD arrived from Pacific Army.

Look where they came from. That could be considered a hint.

and worst of all,
he booted all nations with 300 endorsments so that only he can be in power. all the hard work those nations put it, and they are banned by him.

How many different ways to the mods have to say that such practices are legal?
I was under the impression that what he is doing is considered Greifing which according the the FAQ is illegal. if thats not the case then explain.

"Once I've taken over a region, can I eject everyone else?
No. Region crashing by itself is a legitimate tactic to seize power, but ejecting large numbers of nations is griefing. It can be a fine line between region crashing and griefing. Players who enjoy launching invasions should take care to stay on the right side."-FAQ


He didn't crash the region, he came in sought endorsements and got a sufficient number to take the seat. He didn't bring an invading force. As far as ejections he's allowed 40%. You don't believe me look it up. what's 40% of 4300? He's not even close. Ejection based on political opposition has been ruled legal. You are all spinning your wheels looking for help here. There's none to be had. The power shift was 100% legal, legit and your region handed it to Franco on a silver platter. allright sounds fair i will stop the argument theres no point to continueing it.

Hello. Sounds like you have a horrible delegate. I'm from the West Pacific, but, I always want the best for my pacific neighbors. I hope you get this problem figured out.

thank you, vandi.....
i will miss welcoming new nations in the game, and answering questions about the game...
i will also miss talking to my friends there...
i can't move any nation into the pacific now, they will be ejected, even if i leave the guy alone..
but it seems that any action we would take, is considered illegal, i don't want to break any rules, so....
farewell, sweet pacific, till better times come, i will miss you...
love, cg

Neutered Sputniks
you are a bad moderator. I hope you do not believe in karma, because there's a lot headed your way.

What Francos is doing is wrong.
You have the power to stop it.
Instead you sit by and do nothing.
What you are doing is worse.

It is a sad time we live in, but I'm sure it will work out in the end. Goodbye Pacific I hope to one day return.
:cry:

I have been in the Pacific region since my nation was created months ago. I became really politically active during several attempted takeovers from inside. This time I didn't take notice or say anything. I was the second nation Francos Spain ejected and BANNED from the region, because I had over 300 endorsements.
His actions are untolerable and illegal. He ejects regions because he doesn't like what they say, or they have close to his number of endorsements.
I will miss my home in the Pacific. I hope the moderators wisen up and remove Francos Spain from the delegacy.

Neutered, if you protect him by saying that his actions of banning are legitimate in every case, then i would like *you* to give *the list* of all the people he banned and his reasons. Can you do that please? And of course you have that list, because otherwise you would be lying to us when you said the reasons were legal. And i know one nation that got banned for no reason i could figure out. Isn't that a good enough reason to give him a warning? Oh, wait, it's not. Of course it's not. But talking here is griefing and i'll get banned if i do this, right? Of course, stopping people from talking is illegal in the real sense of the word in the US (where this server resides), at least last time i've checked. Probably most of you haven't heard about "free speech". Or don't care. It's a right guaranteed in every consitution in the world.

And you said about the pacific being a starter region: of course it's a starter region. That's why a tyrant should not be allowed to behave in it like in it's own region. If he wants to create havoc, why doesn't he do that in a region he founded ?!

And if he was democratically elected, please ask the people who endorsed him if he ever talked to any of them. Or if he ever talks to the people of The Pacific on the board. Or if they have the smallest clue who he is.

Neutered, if you protect him by saying that his actions of banning are legitimate in every case, then i would like *you* to give *the list* of all the people he banned and his reasons. Can you do that please? And of course you have that list, because otherwise you would be lying to us when you said the reasons were legal. And i know one nation that got banned for no reason i could figure out. Isn't that a good enough reason to give him a warning? Oh, wait, it's not. Of course it's not. But talking here is griefing and i'll get banned if i do this, right? Of course, stopping people from talking is illegal in the real sense of the word in the US (where this server resides), at least last time i've checked. Probably most of you haven't heard about "free speech". Or don't care. It's a right guaranteed in every consitution in the world.

And you said about the pacific being a starter region: of course it's a starter region. That's why a tyrant should not be allowed to behave in it like in it's own region. If he wants to create havoc, why doesn't he do that in a region he founded ?!

And if he was democratically elected, please ask the people who endorsed him if he ever talked to any of them. Or if he ever talks to the people of The Pacific on the board. Or if they have the smallest clue who he is.

Freedom of speech could be gauranteed by a global government for all this site cares, it's privately owned and funded by *max berry* and not the United States Government, and he has the right to decide what you can say or not.

And would you stop whining over it, start organizing through telegrams, get a bunch of UN nations and storm it, at a very discreet time. Of course it would be what you are saying he did.........but it is legal.

Hmmm, it is a time of troubles here. All I can say is that what goes around comes around, and he's making to many enemies to stay in power for that long. The price he shall pay for his seat is eternal vigilance, and no one person can stay at such a rate forever...he's gotta eat and sleep...right?!? :shock: This dark cycle is in it's deepest decline, but we will endure, and await the coming of a new dawn.

Come on guys and girls. Don't bash the Mods, they are only doing what they feel is in line with the rules. We don't have to agree with them, but we don't have to bash them either.

Neutered Sputniks
you are a bad moderator. I hope you do not believe in karma, because there's a lot headed your way.

What Francos is doing is wrong.
You have the power to stop it.
Instead you sit by and do nothing.
What you are doing is worse.

Did you only read what you wanted to see? Neut is not a bad Moderator. He is going by the rules. Statements like that will only garner scorn not help. If you want to know how to fight this talk to people who have. THE MODS ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO HELP YOU. I don't know how many different ways that has to be stated before you understand this. There has been no rules broken so stop with the rhetoric. Go talk to the older nations in the SP, they've fought off this sort of thing successfully before.

Sorry, wrong place for this post. Nothing to see here move along move along.

:x I urge all nations who are tired of the tyranny of Francos Spain to rise up! Choose one nation and quickly endorse that one nation, all at once. Usurp this dictator if you want his reign to end. Complaining about it to him, the mods, or each other garners nothing. Action, not words! Who we choose is our decision; I'll back most any choice to remove this dictator from power.

Truss, you'll get yourself banned by Francos just before reset time. Trust me :!:

Truss, you'll get yourself banned by Francos just before reset time. Trust me :!:

Exactly...that is why an organized and motivated resistance is necessary, not a mob or bunch of rabble. And multiple strings of offense...but so far, it seems all opposition has been quickly put down. :(

Just because you believe a player's actions are wrong does not make it illegal.

I personally find a lot of things immoral that are legal in the real world. Does my opinion on what is and isnt moral, or correct, change the legality of it? Will bashing the members of the legal system because they dont adhere to my views change anything? Is it alright for me to take illegal actions against someone just because I believe what he's doing is wrong, even if what's he's doing is legal?


Once again, I point out that he still has an overwhelming majority of the endorsements. Now, what would he do if those endorsements were pulled?

Obviously he still has popular support - wether or not he ever posted in the regional happenings, wether or not anyone endorsing him knows anything about him, etc.



And btw, we Mods are emotionless. Making plays for sympathy wont work, so stop it. If you're not bringing legitimate rules broken to this thread, stop posting in it.

I took away my posts, not because I agree with Neut, but because the rules are actually very clear in this. I was wrong with giving the advice I did! Don't spam, flame or grieve to get your will done. Leave the guy alone, he is losing endorsements already. The Pacific is not the only nice place for your Nation in NationStates!

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

Ok i apologise. I'm very pissed off right now. I have thought that even mods have something against me. It's one ot these days. Sorry. :(

Anyway you said that
I point out that he still has an overwhelming majority of the endorsements.

If he didn't banned some certain.. 10 (?) people, he would not have majority by far. Now he has 290. Thedoc, Bleasdale, Amanda Angel etc had 350+ when they were banned. And all this happened because of that glitch with nations deleted from memory banks.
And what will you do if he continues to ban people when his endorsement drop?!

And about that 40%: It should be applied only to UN Members. What if someone crashes into a region with 1000 nations, but with only 100 native un members, and bans all UN members? What then? This is not griefing?

*wonders if anyone else hs caught the irony of these players griefing the legal delegate because they accuse him of griefing...*

*wonders if Neut can see the irony in what he has written above...*

Okay Neut...


I would like your help on this though...

Can we get a list of all nations banned by Francos Spain?

Obviously we cannot be sure we've counted all of the ejected nations, but the Game Mods have the power to access this.

What do you want said list for?

To contact them, some may be still unaware of what has occurred... as you and other mods have said... we should just go form our own region... well, we have safe regions where we are temporarily housing ourselves while we work to resolve this... we want to invite them in


Also, I would like the current count of nations banned so that we can keep abridged of what percentage of the UN nations he has ejected for opposing him.

To contact them, some may be still unaware of what has occurred...

Ixxi is still in the rejected realms for example... poor girl :(

looks like my thread got big while i was asleep :D

well, he has banned over 80 something people, all for no reason.

i was banned because i was from the order of power

this is wrong, so a list of those banned would be helpfull. so that the ones banned will have a chance to regroup and try to gt FS out

Tsk tsk....like the senseless slaughter of songbirds, they do nothing but sing for us and that poor rejected fate is what they recieve... :cry:

thedoc, i have a complete list...
i'll give it to you ,as soon as i have typed it out.

okay, here's a question, since francos and me are having a discussion about it..
is it illegal to move puppets into the pacific, after you've been banned, if you leave the guy alone?
and is it considered spamming if you have a conversation with someone on the board?

Basically, he can boot pretty much anyone he wants, until it becomes a mass-ejection issue. Therefore, if he doesnt want your puppet there, he can boot it. It's not illegal to move your puppet in, but it can be booted.

Spamming would depend on the conversation. If the purpose of the conversation is apparently to spam/grief the other inhabitants, well, that pretty much speaks for itself.

nah, it was an innocent conversation, bout flashlights and a song, a little role-play..
thanks for the fast reply!

Bringing light to a world turned from tropic paradise to desolate wasteland, where fear exists in every nook and cranny, and those left in those barren fields are afraid to even speak....My Moderator Gods, my moderator Gods, why hath thou forsaken us <weeps>

talkos, they can't do anything, what francos does is immoral, not illegal...

for those wondering, there are 97 banned in the Pacific :(

i wonder if there is a maximum on the banlist...

for those wondering, there are 97 banned in the Pacific :(

Out of nearly 5,000.

yep, and what was it again, 40%?( i believe it was somewhere in this forum), that's grieving, that's about 1900 nations, so he can still ban hundreds of us, legally..

When there are only about 400 nations that actually bother to be involved 97 is a huge number.

Reploid, I think you took it wrong, I was not saying it so the mods would do anything,someone asked how many people were banned,So I was telling them,,

I already knew the mods would/could not do anything

there should be an exception to the 40% rule made for the Pacifics...

The Delegates there should be under review for moderation if they ban less than 40%...

Why?

a) New nations are automatically created in the region everyday... applying 40% to a number that can be replenished based on the number of people finding this site, or a multi with a script is unfair...
b) These are the starter regions... as such, I would assume the owner wouldn't want new players to enter into a game where their Delegate is automatically a tyrant... it might give potential customers a bad impression of the book and it's creator... thereby hurting sales.
c) While I was delegate, I did come across the need to ban spammers or nations posting offensive material... but if I banned more than about 5 in quick succession... the Ban message turned to a warning that the mods could take action against this.

I don't know about the other Pacifics, but while I was Delegate for over a month... I didn't have cause to put more than roughly a dozen names on the list...

I'd say if a Pacific Delegate bans more than 5% of the region they should be subject to moderator review, and POSSIBLY action depending on the circumstances... Most of the Pacifics stay around 4-5K .. this equates to 200-250 nations banned... more than enough to take out the major invasion armies sufficently... or enough to clean the region of anyone violating the rules and posting offensive material...

Yes, but when a good 2/3 of the nations banned are puppets being used to stack the numbers, they dont really count, now do they?

Yes, but when a good 2/3 of the nations banned are puppets being used to stack the numbers, they dont really count, now do they?

Isn't it kinda pointless to ban puppets? :? Are you sure that they were puppets? I don't believe he is just ejecting spammers. :x

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

Well Neut... if you'd post that list... I'd know just how many are puppets and aren't...

I can rattle off a good 20 names of nations that aren't puppets... but I haven't heard the full list yet...

Well Neut... if you'd post that list... I'd know just how many are puppets and aren't...

I can rattle off a good 20 names of nations that aren't puppets... but I haven't heard the full list yet...

Give me one good reason why he have to give you the list. Neut doesn't have to proofe anything to us.

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

Well Neut... if you'd post that list... I'd know just how many are puppets and aren't...

Pardon, but who does and who does not have the IP scans and secret means of finding out who is and is not a puppet?

Pardon me, but I can do a little research myself:
a) nations less than 15 mill are likely puppets created for this event...
b) many puppets use similar names
c) we are coordinating efforts in our external region forums
d) I can ask them :roll:

Let me mention that it matters not how many puppets you count. See, the Mod counts are the ones that matter, not yours.

So you can publicize there being x-number of nations ejected, however, the Mods can turn around and say, actually, it's only y-number ejected and the Mod's count is the one that is ruled on.


Now, my suggestion...stop griefing the region. You might not like it, but by GOD, it's legal so suck it up. Continued griefing, puppet griefing, etc. will result in deletions. No more warnings.

We've been nice. We've explained our positions many times, and yet you people continue to push us. We're going to push back, and we can push back somewhat harder. Fair warning.

Boy, those Pacific regions are lightning rods for hardball politics.

Nations appealing for moderator intervention need to understand that the game allows players to act unfairly. Francos Spain, like many before, has decided to be ruthless in the quest for power and bump off any potential threats. This is appalling and undemocratic behavior, and personally I hope residents in the Pacific yank their endorsements. But they are not compelled to do so. Delegates are elected by region residents, not by mods. If the Pacific leaves Francos Spain in power, that is their choice.

In many cases before this one, a Delegate's tyranny has come back to bite him, eventually leading to his unseating. I encourage nations offended by Francos Spain's acts to try the same. This is a job for Pacific residents, not the mods.

Well said - and "Diplomatic" enough, to difuse a lot of the anger over this.

Many Thanks.

]Boy, those Pacific regions are lightning rods for hardball politics.

Nations appealing for moderator intervention need to understand that the game allows players to act unfairly. Francos Spain, like many before, has decided to be ruthless in the quest for power and bump off any potential threats. This is appalling and undemocratic behavior, and personally I hope residents in the Pacific yank their endorsements. But they are not compelled to do so. Delegates are elected by region residents, not by mods. If the Pacific leaves Francos Spain in power, that is their choice.

In many cases before this one, a Delegate's tyranny has come back to bite him, eventually leading to his unseating. I encourage nations offended by Francos Spain's acts to try the same. This is a job for Pacific residents, not the mods.

your reply cleared up a lot of things !

Thanks a lot !!!!
:)

Just remember that in not acting, the mods are not being your enemies- they are merely being neutral.

there is nothing the mods can do, francos actions are immoral, not illegal...

I have been sort of following the situation in The Pacific, and have heard many reports on what's been going on. I semi-browsed through this thread... and wonder, how come Francos Spain has not been ejected from the game?

My original nation, Pengina, was ejected chiefly because I had kicked several dead nations out of the region of FIRE N ICE when I was the delegate there. I lifted the ban so that if any of them became active again, they could return. However, the mods were on me like stink on ... well you get the idea.

Isn't what Francos Spain doing called griefing?

Just remember that in not acting, the mods are not being your enemies- they are merely being neutral.

First, take a look at Corinthe posts from the first 2 pages. I can't figure out why she deleted them. I only read 2 of them, so i can't say.

Those of you engaging in griefing the new delegate, using puppets to jump in, post, and jump out, etc. YOU are engaged in illegal activity against a legal Delegate. This is your warning to stop. Further griefing will be dealt with quite strictly as 3+ Mods have declared the new Delegate's actions to be legal. This thread is becoming
griefing as well.

*ahem* i went to the pacific and posted there 3-4 messages about francos, without any offending language, in a whole day, and the last two with a 15 min gap, and i was told by Neutered that i will get deleted if i will ever do that because it's griefing, and also he said that even this thread is griefing (which is shocking to me, maybe someone could point me to the official rules saying that...). The fact that Francos had banned my first nation and i don't really want to create a nation every time Franco would ban me doesn't matter. It's still griefing. But creating a nation every time would still be griefing, so the message is clear: "Shut up! We don't care!".

But Francos needs to eject 40% (around 2200 nations) from The Pacific before he will be griefing. Until then, everything is ok.

Yes, but when a good 2/3 of the nations banned are puppets being used to stack the numbers, they dont really count, now do they?

And all the nations banned by Francos are of course 2/3 puppets so we don't count at all it seems.

Out of nearly 5,000.
But the fact that in The Pacific are around 2/3 puppets anyway doesn't count when that 40% is applied.

Give me one good reason why he have to give you the list. Neut doesn't have to proofe anything to us.
Of course he doesn't. Is enough for him to say that every ban given by Franco has a perfectly legal reason, and i have to believe it and be happy about it. So of course i asked him to post the list with people banned and with the reasons, because of course he must have that list, otherwise he couldn't said that. Guess what answer i received?
While in the Pacific when i asked Franco about the list, he posted a list with 14-16 people, most of them banned for ... offending names or offending mottos. And of course none of them were endorsing him. All people with offending names endorsing him didn't get banned. Strange. The rest was banned for too many endorsements. Nice. When i saw the list about half an hour later (i didn't think he would even answer) and i asked him about the entire list he said that i must stop spamming the message board, and that i will be reported and will surely get deleted. Does anyone considers posting 2 messages spam?

Remember that "neutral" means not acting at all or acting equally with both parts in the conflict.


So, what were you saying Kandarin? Surprised that i explode?

Funny how you can make someone seem to be biased by not quoting everything stated.

Carpathya, if the mods are biased in favor of Francos Spain, then what's this?

]Boy, those Pacific regions are lightning rods for hardball politics.

Nations appealing for moderator intervention need to understand that the game allows players to act unfairly. Francos Spain, like many before, has decided to be ruthless in the quest for power and bump off any potential threats. This is appalling and undemocratic behavior, and personally I hope residents in the Pacific yank their endorsements. But they are not compelled to do so. Delegates are elected by region residents, not by mods. If the Pacific leaves Francos Spain in power, that is their choice.

In many cases before this one, a Delegate's tyranny has come back to bite him, eventually leading to his unseating. I encourage nations offended by Francos Spain's acts to try the same. This is a job for Pacific residents, not the mods.

Trust me, they're neutral.

If anyone is interested, you can find Francos' side of the story at the following site: networkradio.proboards21.com

Sorry to butt in like this. Won't happen again.

What we've gathered is that Francos Spain possibly played the "I'll endorse you if you endorse me back" game to win the delegate seat. I've seen that kind of campaign work numerous times. However, I have noted that several nations who did in fact endorse the tyrant aren't very active in the game. Eventually if they remain so, the endorsements will slowly fade away. Until then though, Francos rules with an iron fist.

I would still like to know why he hasn't been removed for griefing. His ejection of several (25 +?) nations warrants the charge, no matter what his intentions are. The mods have removed many other nations who have done the same thing to keep their power. Isn't that unfair to the nations who live there and voiced their opposition to Francos?

woah, 100 Nations in The Pacific is a drop in the bucket for a region of 4900+.

Not to mention, there was no invasion ;)

When this issue first cropped up, we Mods responded somewhat gently. As the issue has progressed, we Mods have had to become more and more stern due to the apparent lack of respect for the ruling(s) made by the Mods.


I'd like to take this opportunity to reiterate my previous post that furthering this discussion without any firm proof of illegallity by Francos will result in deletions for griefing after being warned.

So when has ejecting nations without probable cause become legal?

The question is when was it ever illegal ;)

I have only removed four nations from the region. Two for spamming, and the other two for political reasons.

LYING LYING LYING !!!!!!!!. They are around 100 by now.

Thedoc and his friends have pulled the wool over many people's eyes, but they will not be able to hold that wool there for very long. I thank you for the interview and I appreciate your service to the world.

He's nuts. He changes the world factbook entry to that BS after ejecting around 20 nations in the beggining and he says this, although he banned everyone that spoke agains him. Who's doing what, Darth Francos?

Neutered, this is what i've seen: I was in Pacific with "Daciana". I got banned for no reason. I haven't said a word. I had around 12 endorsement. I just got banned. When i logged-on, the hell broke loose. I asked everyone what happened and they said that he's banning just about anyone old enough. Until now all old nations have been ejected. I created Carpathy so i can enter in the Pacific and talk to him. I asked him what happend. No answer. I asked again and he said that if i don't leave he'll ban me. I left, perplexed. Later in that day or the next day my time, i went back 2 times and campained against him and asked him about his actions. What happened from there i already said. AM I BIASED ?!

Kandarin, the fact that [violet] is indeed neutral appears to be an exception.
Whatever you put it, Neutered said that if i go back there to campaign against him is griefing.

Here are the last 2 messages posted on Pacific:

# Seconds ago: The Oppressed Peoples of Hannasbum departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The Oppressed Peoples of Hannasbum from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Dictatorship of McBeersica departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The Dictatorship of McBeersica from the region.
# 1 minute ago: The Republic of Atahtipesh departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# 1 minute ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The Republic of Atahtipesh from the region.
# 1 minute ago: The Republic of Maledicta departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# 1 minute ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The Republic of Maledicta from the region.


Francos had ejected all these people just before the update took place so nobody could see it. Are you a tyrant francos ?

How many have you ejected by now?

And i have a question for you, if you ejected yesterday *all* nations with offending names, then why haven't you ejected 2 nations with very offending names which endorsed you? Why have you even asked for their endorsement in the first place?

Any listen to me Francos, under the game rules every player is allowed to have as many nations as she/he wants. Ejecting everyone just because YOU THOUGHT they have another nation is simply absurd.

And why have you ejected a lot of the older nations, which were in the Pacific for a long time ? Tell me, why?

And BTW, you're a BIG LIAR: i haven't lost my UN membership, I just transfered it to another country >>actually at that point i had barely resigned and requested another membership<<. So you see, I don't cheat.

Francos there is a big difference between resigning from the UN to transfer the membership to someone else and being kicked out of UN, but you don't want to understand that, don't you?

And it's not me spamming the message boards, is you, because i had something to say, but you just pretended to answer my questions, while saying nonsense to clear up the message.

Yesterday Franco, you *banned* a lot of people from this region, with no warning, just before the game update, so nobody could see it. You did the same thing today. If this is not the lowest form of cowardly concealing your actions, then what it is?

Democratically elected you said? Telegramming every UN member in The Pacific and asking them to exchange endorsement is not democracy. Especially when you ban people with offending names (this i can understand, though this is not exactly your bussiness, but mods'), but you don't ban people with offending names that endorsed you. This is pure hypocrisy. And especially when you never (absoloutly never) talked on the message boards about yourself, you just come in and quietly backstabbed a lot of people.

And what is about that BS logo saying "Tyranny has been deposed. Let a new era of peace, freedom, and justice for the Pacific be rung in." ?! You come in, you simply ban everyone, but absoloutly everyone with enough endorsements to threaten you, while neither Savage nor Thedoc have done that, and you say "Tyranny has been deposed."? Do you actually believe yourself?! And how is this in he spirit of the "democratically elections" of yours. Do the people that exchange endorsement with you actually realize the fact that as soon as they have enough you will ban them do? Why do they even keep endorsing you?

And i'm getting in and out of the region quickly because you banned over 20 nations for just speaking, and thretened others with telegrams, which of course you will do to me too. And stop talking BS and come with some answers. First tell us who are you? I don't recall you ever introduced yourself to the Pacific nations, did you? And for your information, i am a native of The Pacific.


These are the 2 messages... griefing you say ?!

It's griefing when you're moving in and out fast enough that he cant ban you ;)

Oh, so i should stay like a sitting duck, right ?! I think that's supposed to be griefing only when i spam, which is not the case.

And how can he lie like that, listen to him: 4 nations !!!!

It was illegal when you deleted my nation for ejecting dead nations from FIRE N ICE when I was delegate of that region. :?

:wink:


The question is when was it ever illegal ;)

I have only removed four nations from the region. Two for spamming, and the other two for political reasons.

LYING LYING LYING !!!!!!!!. They are around 100 by now.

Keep in mind that the interview was a couple of days ago, and this situation changes quickly.

Keep in mind that the interview was a couple of days ago, and this situation changes quickly.

Well, then i apologise. Sorry. But by what i know he ejected more then 4 nations in the beggining.

It was illegal when you deleted my nation for ejecting dead nations from FIRE N ICE when I was delegate of that region. :?

:wink:


No, that was a different situation ;)

How come, because of the Multi situation? :twisted:

:lol:

i believe they work with percentages, not numbers...

How come, because of the Multi situation? :twisted: :lol:

That, plus that it was an invasion, while the Pacific situation isn't. There's a big difference.


AM I BIASED ?!

I think your moral outrage is blinding you to the facts: this is a political game. In politics it sometimes happens that you're betrayed, lied to, treated unfairly, etc... It's not an issue for the Mods unless game rules are broken. Game rules have not been broken in this case. I fully understand it's very frustrating, but please, do try to calm down. Don't resort to harassing FS, cause that's against the rules, and you've already been warned multiple times.

If the rules were to enforce moral behaviour, this game wouldn't be worth playing, as we'd all have similar countries doing similar stuff (as in: living up to the moral standards of the site owner).

If it's any consolation, it looks like FS won't be delegate of the Pacific for too long, and you'll eventually be removed from that ban list allowing you to return 'home'.

Ballotonia

But aren't invasions legal? :P

That's the thing, I went into FIRE N ICE to clean up a dead region that had been part of a small alliance of regions for a long time. I did not invade the region to impose an iron will. What Francos Spain is doing right now is called a hostile takeover, or an invasion from the inside. He had ejected nations that spoke out, or posed a threat to his rule. Numerous regions and nations are not happy about this, but he's getting away with it.

I sometimes don't get you mods, but you all knew that. :D


That, plus that it was an invasion, while the Pacific situation isn't. There's a big difference.

Ahh, but there's a difference. You were an outsider invading. This is just a political upheavel in the region of The Pacific. Quite different ;)

Thanks for the clarification. 8)

I at first wondered about the mods,but now understand that nothing illegal happened ;)

So everything is clear,thats why I have backed off from the mods :D

Now to see greifing check out what Region Of Terror is doing ;)

The Dominion of Francos Spain has 238 endorsements; I think it's dropping. Those interested in deposing him should send one telegram* to each of his supporters asking them to withdraw their endorsement.

By the way, as Founder, I don't allow banning for stupid or political reasons. Those looking for a home from which they can't be banned (other than The Rejected Realms) are welcome in The Realm of Ambrosia. :)

Okay, I'm going to stop with the self-promotion now. ;)

* More than one would probably be spam.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

Those of you engaging in griefing the new delegate, using puppets to jump in, post, and jump out, etc. YOU are engaged in illegal activity against a legal Delegate. This is your warning to stop. Further griefing will be dealt with quite strictly as 3+ Mods have declared the new Delegate's actions to be legal. This thread is becoming
griefing as well.

*ahem* i went to the pacific and posted there 3-4 messages about francos, without any offending language, in a whole day, and the last two with a 15 min gap, and i was told by Neutered that i will get deleted if i will ever do that because it's griefing, and also he said that even this thread is griefing (which is shocking to me, maybe someone could point me to the official rules saying that...).

Not saying I don't believe you, per se, just asking for clarification. Did he say this thread it self was griefing, did he say creating so many multiple threads on the same issue were griefing, or did he say your posts in this thread were griefing?

The Dominion of Francos Spain has 238 endorsements; I think it's dropping. Those interested in deposing him should send one telegram* to each of his supporters asking them to withdraw their endorsement.

By the way, as Founder, I don't allow banning for stupid or political reasons. Those looking for a home from which they can't be banned (other than The Rejected Realms) are welcome in The Realm of Ambrosia. :)

Okay, I'm going to stop with the self-promotion now. ;)

* More than one would probably be spam.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

I thought one of the same TM to any large region is spamming.

This is what Spam mail and e-mail is about. Sending a single e-mail, letter, or TM to a large collection of people effectively becomes junk mail, no? It is not a personal correspondance.

Not saying I don't believe you, per se, just asking for clarification. Did he say this thread it self was griefing, did he say creating so many multiple threads on the same issue were griefing, or did he say your posts in this thread were griefing?

The thread became griefing, it didn't start that way.

When people continued to complain about the situation even after three different mods said that the practices were legit, and continued to demand lists of banned people, or UN cheat-scans of the Delegate, that is when it became griefing. People refused to accept that they were wrong, and continued to pound away at the topic.

Had the accusors simply dropped the issue when the questions were answered, it wouldn't have been griefing at all.

I don't understand why he hasn't been deleted yet, but I guess thats why I am not a mod. Still there shouldn't be exceptions for regions who are bigger than others to be able to deleted more nations. Why is it alright that my friend got deleted for banning some nations for inactivity oppose to Francos Spain banning nations who are active because he felt they were a threat to him? And for the people who refused to accept they are wrong, what are they wrong for? Wrong for having to many endorsements, not endorsing the delegate, having free speech in their native homeland, speaking out against their Delegate, or for no reason at all. If these are reasons why they are wrong, then I think most and maybe all of us are wrong and guilty for doing the same.

I basically posted to just give my opinion on the topic and to see if anyone can answer my questions. I believe what I am doing isn't griefing (but the rules have changed so much that I don't know what is legal and illegal anymore) and if it is, I apologize.

The griefing is where the Mods had time and again posted that Francos Spains actions, while perhaps immoral, were not illegal yet the nations making false accusations continued to do so. This is griefing.

The griefing is where the Mods had time and again posted that Francos Spains actions, while perhaps immoral, were not illegal yet the nations making false accusations continued to do so. This is griefing.

I don't understand why this thread is continuing. The guy has alread lost 100 UN endorsment and is making a 100 enenmies each day. When he loses power, all NS will be after him. I wished people had the brains to stay on the right side, so Franco is alone on the immoral side.

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

Well what I think he is doing is illegal, but my opinion doesn't count. It seems their are false accusations being made by not just the banned nations, but by the tyrant as well. Well thanks Neutered Sputniks for your reply and answers to my questions. I wish I could say your answers helped me understand better, but I think it didn't help at all.

Well thanks for your time.

The griefing is where the Mods had time and again posted that Francos Spains actions, while perhaps immoral, were not illegal yet the nations making false accusations continued to do so. This is griefing.

I don't understand something. Have i lied about what I said that Francos did? Or you say that the accusations are false because what he has done is immoral but not illegal ?

And btw Jason, this is the problem. His actions are immoral but not really illegal. At least not yet. So the mods don't have to do anything about it. What we are going to do about it is something else. :wink: :twisted:

BTW, a serious question: where i can find all games rules? I mean, i read the FAQ but no 40% there...

Ok, so the new delegate is cleaning house...is that illegal? Nope. Dont like the new delegate, create a new region.

I don't understand why one country can come in somewhere and
just take over making other countries move somewhere else. What
if a country likes where they are?

The griefing is where the Mods had time and again posted that Francos Spains actions, while perhaps immoral, were not illegal yet the nations making false accusations continued to do so. This is griefing.


HUH :?:
I'm soo Confused, Ahhh!!!!


EDITed by Neut as it was excessively n00bish, and borderline spamish

Why is it alright that he just ejected my nation from The Pacific. I just moved in there about 5-10 minutes ago and didn't PM him or say anything on the message board. What is legal about that. Also the nation is a NON- UN nation.

Forgive Please I here am new

What's legal about that is he is the UN Delegate of the region. Thus, he controls said region and can eject any nations up to a certain point. He has not yet reached that certain point, therefore, he can eject your nation.


If you're confused Virgin, I suggest you look up the term "libel" at www.dictionary.com.

So how many more nations before he gets to that point?

Jason, don't post here anymore. Please.

And it's 40%, thought i have no ideea where is that rule displayed. It's not an official rule anyway, cause it's not on the site. The site says clear:

Once I've taken over a region, can I eject everyone else?

No. Region crashing by itself is a legitimate tactic to seize power, but ejecting large numbers of nations is griefing. It can be a fine line between region crashing and griefing. Players who enjoy launching invasions should take care to stay on the right side.

No 40% there, so it's pure subjectivity, it appears.

Well then how is it legal if its not posted on the site? Once you show me this, then I should be done with the questions. These questions are also being asked for better understanding of the game and if this occurs again in the future.

And it's 40%, thought i have no ideea where is that rule displayed. It's not an official rule anyway, cause it's not on the site. The site says clear:


Where did people get the 40% figure? Page two of this thread:

He didn't crash the region, he came in sought endorsements and got a sufficient number to take the seat. He didn't bring an invading force. As far as ejections he's allowed 40%. You don't believe me look it up. what's 40% of 4300? He's not even close. Ejection based on political opposition has been ruled legal. You are all spinning your wheels looking for help here. There's none to be had. The power shift was 100% legal, legit and your region handed it to Franco on a silver platter.

That's the first place I recall seeing an actual percentage listed. Might I remind everyone that Westminster is not a mod.

Well, i'm just gonna get out to buy a voodoo doll. And a few boxes of pins, a blow torch and some sulfuric acid. And a hamster. A very hungry one. Hope that this is not against the rules, or is it?

I'm pretty sure we don't have rules about the off forum practice of VooDoo or other such rites. :wink:

I'm pretty sure we don't have rules about the off forum practice of VooDoo or other such rites. :wink:

So we have rules about the on forum practice of it? Well, there goes the usefullness of those 30 tons of chicken blood I ordered...

I'm pretty sure we don't have rules about the off forum practice of VooDoo or other such rites. :wink:

So we have rules about the on forum practice of it? Well, there goes the usefullness of those 30 tons of chicken blood I ordered...

IC only.

Where did people get the 40% figure? Page two of this thread: [...]
That's the first place I recall seeing an actual percentage listed. Might I remind everyone that Westminster is not a mod.

Ok. I understand rules can be left a tad vague for a reason, but can you give a rule of thumb that will give players an indication when it's worth asking a Mod to take a look at a situation? (note: i'll take 'no' as an answer, I'm just hoping for guidance for future situations so players will know what to expect. Well, at least some of them will know.)

Ballotonia

Personally, I can't.

Then again, since I'm not one who deletes nations or the like, I haven't felt a need to worry about it. I tend to focus on forum matters, obviously :wink:

If you want an unofficial guess, I can do that. I would guess that anything under 50% would not be considered griefing, give or take about 15% depending on situation, and the mod's mood (we're human, have to take that into account).

Now, from that, I would assume that if a Delegate made a habit of ejecting exactly 49%, the GM's would be more likely to come down hard, but I really can't say.

Emphasis added so my guesses don't become accepted rules when I'm not looking...

Emphasis added so my guesses don't become accepted rules when I'm not looking...

Ahhhh, you should have emphasized this too. :P

*runs away scared of her own deeds*

Ok, Neut, sorry that i was so http://www.chip.ro/forum/images/smiles/10416773.gif ...bitchy about it.

http://www.chip.ro/forum/images/smiles/dance200.gifhttp://www.chip.ro/forum/images/smiles/remybuss.gif

The griefing is where the Mods had time and again posted that Francos Spains actions, while perhaps immoral, were not illegal yet the nations making false accusations continued to do so. This is griefing.

Yeah, what you and MGH is completely what I thought. I noticed, instead of brining up new points or seeming to see what you say and then disccusing what you say, it def. seems the same thing is coming up over and over again.

That why when he said, despite our differences, that creating this thread was griefing, I knew that somethign smelled rotten. If creating an unpopular thread were griefing, I would have been notified of that LONG ago.

I used to be a resident of the region of Alcatraz. The delegate was nice enough to invite me to come and let my little nation grow there. The region was peaceful and strong, until another little nation who had been a resident there for a little while as well began gathering endorsements using the old "I'll endorse you if you endorse me back trick." Eventually he had enough to become the delegate, which at that point, made his intentions clear. An election was held.

With one more day will the final results, this little nation (Band Fags) became the temporary delegate, but Vazquez (the founder who did not have that status at the time and original delegate) was gathering more votes as the day wore on. Band Fags, feeling threatened by this, ejected Vazquez and several other nations that could possibly gain the delegate seat in a matter of days.

Band Fags then password protected the region so that nobody could get in. Anybody in the region of Alcatraz who spoke out against the dictatorship was also ejected. By the end of the first week, at least 25 longtime nations were outsted. Finally, it took two nations to bring this matter to the attention of the N.S. Moderators. The mods quickly deleted Band Fags for griefing and order was eventually restored to a now shattered region.

Now the way I see it is, the only difference between what Band Fags did and what Francos Spain is currently doing is the password protected thing. However, F.S. won't allow a free election by the people of that region, and he will not allow former nations to return.

Now, I don't believe that is fair for the people of the Pacific. This Nation States game is about having fun and respecting the rights of everybody who plays this game. F.S. is infringing on that right with his actions, which is why so many people have posted on this thread hoping that the moderators will step in and take some kind of action.

Is it really fair that several nations be forced to leave their home because one person is power hungry and afraid to lose that position? Have you moderators considered this? In my eyes, especially after all the lectures I have received about griefing and such, Francos Spain is a region griefer... even if he is a longtime resident of the Pacific.

And is the real world political field fair?

No... but this is just a game. Remember you telling me about how it wasn't fair for dead nations to be ejected, because those nations were actually people? Well, how do you think those who once lived in the Pacific feel. Aren't they people too? :roll:

And once again, it comes down to using the rules only when you see fit. Band Fags was quickly deleted from the game, yet you claim what F.S. is doing is legal? And you can't call me out for griefing, as I am trying to present a case to you about Francos Spain and the Pacific.

8)

This isnt the same situation. This is a political upheaval, not an invasion...thus, there's a difference...

And is the real world political field fair?

I don't know Neutered. Have you saw G.W. Bush throwing Bill Clinton and a lot other people out of the US ? Have you ever seen anything similar ?

http://www.chip.ro/forum/images/smiles/10531803.gif

Why does this game have to be based on the US? Take a look in the other parts of the world where desposed leaders are sent into exile.

It's the same situation. Both nations were longtime residents of their regions. Both reached the delegate seat through sneaky political tactics. Both have ejected nations right and left, infringing on their rights. Band Fags was deleted for his actions. Francos Spain gets away with it.

There is no difference.


This isnt the same situation. This is a political upheaval, not an invasion...thus, there's a difference...

Why does this game have to be based on the US? Take a look in the other parts of the world where desposed leaders are sent into exile.

Well, yes, but you also don't see France throwing out of the region Germany, Czech Republic, Yugoslavia etc...

BTW, i think that all this stuff with a UN delegate it's BS... just my opinion.
In reality you don't see something like that. And a person shouldn't be allowed to have more than 3-5 nations at a time, and only one in UN. And some kind of regional elections implemented, and maybe whole continents with different rules (3-4 continets would suffice - a warrior continent, a serene one, and whatever else continents)... i want too much, don't I?

I thought one of the same TM to any large region is spamming.

Okay, I wasn't thinking clearly when I posted that. :oops: I stand corrected.

Then again, wouldn't offering 300+ people a "you-endorse-me-and-I-endorse-you" deal also be spam?

It's the same situation. Both nations were longtime residents of their regions. Both reached the delegate seat through sneaky political tactics. Both have ejected nations right and left, infringing on their rights. Band Fags was deleted for his actions. Francos Spain gets away with it.

There is no difference.

Alcatraz has about 300 nations in it; I don't know how many nations were in Alcatraz at the time you describe. The Pacific has 4,682 nations in it. So, ejecting a certain number of nations from Alcatraz will prompt moderator action while ejecting an equal number of nations from The Pacific will not. Remember that it's a matter or proportion.

Of course, I don't know the exact numbers ejected in each situation, so I could be wrong.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

Neut... I'm still looking for that list, if you could access it and post here.

I have just begun to play the game a few weeks ago and was learning the ropes of the game...i participated in a election in which the delegate i voted for won...i saw a small upheavel that ended up with everyone being friends in the end... and i saw people acting like total wackos in the middle of the day....and then i log into what can only be called chaos....my delegate has been kicked 14 of my friends have been kicked in less than 20 minutes....people that i was just beginning to know are gone never to return...and the forum sight for my region was no longer posted....so instead of bothering the delegate i took things into my own hands and once a night posted the link to the forum.....after 2 days of this i log in after school and im no longer in my home....ive been sent to a place called the rejected lands....trying to find out what is going on i send a message to the delegate to ask why i have been kicked....in reply i get a message that basically says that if i ever talk to him again i will be erased for spamming.....ever since then i have seen my name all over the pacifics boards saying that the reason that i was banned was that i was cheating...in fact everyone who has gotten kicked from the pacific is a cheater who is doing (insert some reason here)....i log into the forum to find out what is going on and all i see is the delegate of the pacific saying we all need to shut up or we will be erased.....and also i see the MOD's telling us to stop whinning about things.....ive been going nuts for the past few days trying to figure out what the heck is going on....and as far as i can tell is that since i am not a delegate i have no say in the game....wow its a lot like real life governments why the heck do i even play a fantasy game if i can go through this kind of thing in real life.....ohhh well.....

-ILLQO
-Idavan National Diplomat/Liason Officer

Huh I got kicked for asking why he was spamming the board I think, I didn't get a reason, I log on and boom I'm in the rejected region...thats griefing to kick people for no reason isn't it?

thats griefing to kick people for no reason isn't it?

Nope. Francos could flip a coin if s/he'd like.

My puppet got kicked out merely for pointing out there's a Pacific forum (prior to the one Francos has created just now). I didn't even give a URL :) So, Francos is a tad trigger happy, we'll see what happens next.

Ballotonia

thats griefing to kick people for no reason isn't it?

Nope. Francos could flip a coin if s/he'd like.

My puppet got kicked out merely for pointing out there's a Pacific forum (prior to the one Francos has created just now). I didn't even give a URL :) So, Francos is a tad trigger happy, we'll see what happens next.

Ballotonia

So Ballotonia, you are a spammer too now :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

52 minutes ago
The Holy Empire of Evilistocia We completly reject Democracy!
We fully embrace Facism! Hail Franco! Hail Peace!

12 minutes ago
The Republic of France69 We are dedicated to the survival, expansion, and advancement of the White Race through the promotion of National Socialism, White Nationalism, Pan-Aryanism, and many other worthy ideologies. We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children. If you have similar beliefs please join us.

10 minutes ago
The Holy Empire of Evilistocia Your rehtoric is all fine and that, but do you support the Pacific Empire, Francos Spain and Evilistocia?

Griefing or not! this crap shouldnt be allowed. i accept that he can boot the nations who were insramental in the down fall of sudeten. those who held enough votes to over thow him and those like myself who spoke against him.. but weather in real life or this game racism is crap and has to be stoped..

thats griefing to kick people for no reason isn't it?

Nope. Francos could flip a coin if s/he'd like.

My puppet got kicked out merely for pointing out there's a Pacific forum (prior to the one Francos has created just now). I didn't even give a URL :) So, Francos is a tad trigger happy, we'll see what happens next.

Ballotonia

I have apologized and subsequently unbanned Ballotonia's nation. After I read the post made by the nation, I'd assumed it was a puppet of the Pacific Army and removed it from the region. Again, Ballotonia, my apologies.

And why is that guy calling me a racist for a post that another nation made? (said nation region-hopped posting that same message and has been subsequently deleted, lest anyone think I would permit such a nation to take residence in the Pacific)

Hey Francos, felt bad last night? You know, that voodoo stuff i did...

And yes, you are very click happy when it comes to banning people who just say something. A few times they weren't even talking about you, what do ya know.... Getting scared and a little bit paranoid?http://www.chip.ro/forum/images/smiles/borg.gif

Oh, and maybe you should start apologising to some other people too...

http://www.chip.ro/forum/images/smiles/10412898.gif

He won't have to apologize to me. My spies will hunt him down, and he has to bow for me when this is over :twisted:

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

in reply i get a message that basically says that if i ever talk to him again i will be erased for spamming.....

Do you still have this telegram?

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

And why is that guy calling me a racist for a post that another nation made? (said nation region-hopped posting that same message and has been subsequently deleted, lest anyone think I would permit such a nation to take residence in the Pacific)

That poster may not have been aware of the situation. Evilistocia is interesting, in that his zealous support for you combined with fascism may actually be undermining your approval within the region. I'll sit back and look at how this develops with interest.

France69 seems to be totally unrelated to the events in The Pacific, and was indeed spamming a bunch of regions. It subsequently got Modbombed into oblivion. Praise to the Mods!

Ballotonia

Should this thread be moved to General? Well, if it's a non-issue... whatever...

[edit]: Flaming... hmm, you're right...

And Franco, i have a gift for you. Catch! http://www.chip.ro/forum/images/smiles/tomato00.gif

Flaming is not going to solve the problem. I'm not a mod, but my guess is that this is borderline flaming.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

I thought one of the same TM to any large region is spamming.

Okay, I wasn't thinking clearly when I posted that. :oops: I stand corrected.

Then again, wouldn't offering 300+ people a "you-endorse-me-and-I-endorse-you" deal also be spam?

It's the same situation. Both nations were longtime residents of their regions. Both reached the delegate seat through sneaky political tactics. Both have ejected nations right and left, infringing on their rights. Band Fags was deleted for his actions. Francos Spain gets away with it.

There is no difference.

Alcatraz has about 300 nations in it; I don't know how many nations were in Alcatraz at the time you describe. The Pacific has 4,682 nations in it. So, ejecting a certain number of nations from Alcatraz will prompt moderator action while ejecting an equal number of nations from The Pacific will not. Remember that it's a matter or proportion.

Of course, I don't know the exact numbers ejected in each situation, so I could be wrong.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

I thought one of the same TM to any large region is spamming.

Okay, I wasn't thinking clearly when I posted that. :oops: I stand corrected.

Then again, wouldn't offering 300+ people a "you-endorse-me-and-I-endorse-you" deal also be spam?

It's the same situation. Both nations were longtime residents of their regions. Both reached the delegate seat through sneaky political tactics. Both have ejected nations right and left, infringing on their rights. Band Fags was deleted for his actions. Francos Spain gets away with it.

There is no difference.

Alcatraz has about 300 nations in it; I don't know how many nations were in Alcatraz at the time you describe. The Pacific has 4,682 nations in it. So, ejecting a certain number of nations from Alcatraz will prompt moderator action while ejecting an equal number of nations from The Pacific will not. Remember that it's a matter or proportion.

Of course, I don't know the exact numbers ejected in each situation, so I could be wrong.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

Really, don’t be embarrassed. This issue is coming up a lot, and I have made the point many a time. That said, you are the only one to come around to at least my understanding as well, if not the truth.

Yeah, recruitment is absolutely spam as far as some mods have defined it. It’s a weird thing, and should be a specific rule on it. But as there is not the best I can do is piece together conceptual ideas with mod posts. It looks like such a telegram mission would be iullegal, depending to how many nations it is sent to and how often it is sent out. It is incredibly possible that sending a single TM to a 1000 nations would be permissible if done at the rate of one a day. Anyway, the lagistics of it all is not spelled out, but yeah you are right—what you describe could well also be spam.

this is getting kinda crazy now, some may not even know better,go to the pacific from pacific army & get banned (Some are not even in the UN I might add)So all this "if they come from Pacific Army they considered invaders" is a bunch of trash

All it is,he is having fun banning a ton of people through the disguise of "Invaders",if they are invaders,then NS must have changed when I was sleeping,because last I saw you cannot gain control of a region unless you are in the UN *shrug*


I am not trying to get any more banned,but this guy is still there !?!

And he said he wishes to be delegate in the pacific board,what gives here ?

(If you see this Religious Predators,I am not trying to get you banned,but I am seeing a LOT of double standard here!!)

68 minutes ago The Theocracy of Religious Predators Ok I'm looking for endorsements, so please endorse me & I will promise NOT to kick you when I'm UN delegate, EVEN when you appeal for endorsements or disagree with me on something.

I will provide a general amesty to all who have been banned from this region, it will be a fresh sheet of paper a do over as you could call it.

I will ask for your opions on issues before the UN, and I will appoint people to help monitor this region for spammers & the like.

And finally after I'm elected I will BAN nations that post "I endorse you if you endorse me" on the regional boards. Endorsement swapping is ok if you agree to the same things, But not ok if you are just seeking votes.

If some one endorses you without you asking, then its ok to endorse them back if you wish...but only if they have less than 50 endorsements.

<snip>

In a region as large as the Pacific, there should be a legal mechanism to allow UN member nations to campaign for endorsements (or to convice people to remove their endorsement from someone). Perhaps such a mechanism could be creating a thread on the forums here and providing a link to the thread on the Civil Headquarters board?

I also note that Francos Spain has dropped to 186 endorsements. The rate of decline seems to be slowing down, but it's still declining.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

True... rate is slowing down... but most of the nations endorsing him have been inactive several days, and not paying attention to the things going on here...

how many days inactive is required before deletion? is it 30? or more, I can't remember offhand.

True... rate is slowing down... but most of the nations endorsing him have been inactive several days, and not paying attention to the things going on here...

how many days inactive is required before deletion? is it 30? or more, I can't remember offhand.

It's 28 days if Vacation Mode was not turned on in Settings (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=settings) before logging off, 60 days if Vacation Mode is on.

Okat, I just did a scan of those nations endorsing Francos Spain.

Most Recent Activity: Number of Nations
1 day or less: 81
2 to 4 days: 28
5 to 7 days: 33
8 to 14 days: 31
15 to 21 days: 11
22 to 28 days: Zero
More than 28 days (Obviously Vacation Mode): Zero

Francos Spain's endorsements are not inactive-heavy, waiting is not going to make a major dent.

He's up to it again; reason or reasons unknown.

Regional Happenings
3 minutes ago: The Holy Empire of Y__2__J departed this region for The Rejected Realms
3 minutes ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The Holy Empire of Y__2__J from the region.
7 minutes ago: The Allied States of Angel Wings departed this region for The Rejected Realms
7 minutes ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The Allied States of Angel Wings from the region.
8 minutes ago: The Holy Empire of Amaterasu-o-kami-sama departed this region for Independant Islands of Japan
8 minutes ago: The Theocracy of Hissaria departed this region for Continent of Light
9 minutes ago: The Federation of Cynicallia departed this region for The Antarctic Archipelago
14 minutes ago: The Sultanate of Gettersburg departed this region for The Rejected Realms
14 minutes ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The Sultanate of Gettersburg from the region.
15 minutes ago: The Kingdom of Hammerheim departed this region for Shadowsfall

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Pacific Civil Headquarters
Messages from regional members are co-ordinated here.

Lodged From Message
112 minutes ago The Kingdom of Stan Longton *LOL* @ EU-Topia - funny!
75 minutes ago The Borderlands of Sardonicus Which way to Mecca, Jack?
65 minutes ago The United States of Little crazy girl hey, sardo!
64 minutes ago The United States of Little crazy girl always go to the east! ;)
42 minutes ago The United Socialist States of EU-topia Bon Jovi? greatest band in the world? oh dear

And how many times has crazy girl been ejected now? I've been here less than a week and she's been ejected 3 times!
39 minutes ago The Republic of Hulaballooza this place is boring
im leaving
39 minutes ago The Free Land of Goethe : If you go to the website and read a bit more carfully, you'll
: see there is no such thing as the "Ministry of Slavery."

Ok, you call it "Slave Auctioneer of the Pacific". Instead of arguing semantics, why don't you respond to the question: WHY? You do realize InfernoIce is succeeding quite well in making you look very bad this way, don't you?

Goethe
38 minutes ago The Republic of Hulaballooza EU topia? u support the EU? TRAITOR TO THE CROWN!!
29 minutes ago The United Socialist States of EU-topia no, I just thought it was a good name. The EU constitution is a joke and the currency would be a disaster. But seen as I'm Scottish, I think I'll avoid the crown as well, thats become a bit more of an English institution. "Queen of England", if I had a penny for every time I head that.

And one day Goethe will write a post without using the word "semantics", I mean, yes, its a big word, yes, it can make you sound smart, but not if you use if in every sentence!

(The first King of both Scotland and England was Scottish, it should be Queen of Scotland!)
15 minutes ago The United Socialist States of EU-topia oh yeh, and my flag (representative of a social dictatorship) is supposed to be a symbol of the EU's final solution. I guess if I have to explain it, it didn't work.....ah well.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

Seems to me after awhile what Franco is doing is greiving.
Is this mass ejection everyday?
If it is then I would have to say it is.

Seems to me after awhile what Franco is doing is greiving.
Is this mass ejection everyday?
If it is then I would have to say it is.

Mass ejection is relative to the size of the region. "The Pacific" is so large that anything that Franco does is practically a drop-in-the-bucket.

Additionally, he did not invade the region, he got support entirely from native UN members.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

Additionally, he did not invade the region, he got support entirely from native UN members.

Sorry, but the occupants of the Pacific are only called "natives" after an invasion. Since Francos did not invade, the word "natives" does not apply. It is a feeder region, so all nations there should leave, and not hang around. Why would one be a delegate there anyway? :? Lots of work for what?

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

I'm not sure why you former denizens are continuing to complain to the mods when they explained to you it was a Pacific problem. You need to take matters into your own hands.

Crazy Girl says she has a complete list of those who were banned.

Cogitation said most of the UN members in the Pacific who endorsed FS were fairly active.

There also seems to be some sort of consensus that sending the same message to all 181 nations that still endorse FS is spam.

An army of nations was booted. Seems to me the boot-ees need to think like an army. All ejected nations wishing to re-enter the Pacific need to band together. They should all create new nations (to circumvent the ban). All new nations should belong to the UN which may necessitate giving up UN membership temporarily for the original nation. All new UN nations should get together in a new "shelter" region and endorse each other. Divide the 181 nations who currently support FS by the number of nations booted and have each booted nation telegram 2 -3 supporters of FS with variations of some factual statement such as, "FS has booted ___ nations from the Pacific, some of them merely because they were gaining sufficient endorsements to become the new delegate. Do you think this is what the delegate's position was created to do? Has he done anything positive for the region or contributed significantly to the UN? Please do the Pacific a favor and remove your endorsement from a nation that has not lived up to the responsibilities of a UN delegate. If you want to verify this story feel free to telegram any of the nations listed below which have been thrown out of our homeland for spurious reasons. (List all booted nations)."

If you get questions from the supporters answer them calmly and persuasively. Do not berate them for supporting FS.

In addition, there are a number of regions who bill themselves as "liberators." Contact some of their members for help.

Determine when FS is offline. When FS's endorsements drop to below what your "chosen" candidate has move the new nations and your allies in as a group right before an update.

You should also see if you can get some of the supporters who agree to remove their endorsements to support your new candidate.

I realize this is a lot of work and requires a lot of coordination but it can be done. You can create a board offline for discussing strategy and tactics. Anyway, this is what makes the game fun -- countering the actions of bullies.

Divide the 181 nations who currently support FS by the number of nations booted and have each booted nation telegram 2 -3 supporters of FS with variations of some factual statement such as....

This may constitute spam and is not worth risking (unless a mod says it's okay; Neut, did you say something about this earlier?)

Since Francos Spain makes regular announcements about his new forum site, I recommend that a new NationStates thread explaining why people should not endorse Francos Spain be created and a new nation created to enter "The Pacific" and announce the existence of this thread. When Francos Spain ejects that nation, wait for the annoucnement to move off of the message board, create a new nation and announce the explanatory thread again.

This will hopefully convince people to unendorse Francos Spain and he won't be able to hold enough endorsements to stay ahead of any competitors.

I note that Francos Spain is down to 179 endorsements.

Regional Happenings

* 3 minutes ago: The Nomadic Peoples of Zoemzoemzoem arrived from The Rejected Realms.
* 12 minutes ago: The Republic of Freelance departed this region for The Rejected Realms
* 12 minutes ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The Republic of Freelance from the region.
* 12 minutes ago: The Dominion of Hamilton Aver departed this region for The Rejected Realms
* 12 minutes ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ejected The Dominion of Hamilton Aver from the region.
* 13 minutes ago: The Republic of Elliot Sir Yes Sir departed this region for North West South Latin America
* 15 minutes ago: The Republic of Nowalk II departed this region for North West South Latin America
* 21 minutes ago: The Empire of Sebazkkia departed this region for Lacra
* 25 minutes ago: The Holy Empire of The CotL departed this region for CotL and allies from GHP
* 26 minutes ago: The Armed Republic of Shadow Mosses departed this region for The Next Best Thing

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

We are making our plans for a counter attack...


However, the claim that we were non-natives because Francos came from within is a falacy...

a) Francos had not been in the region for long before he began collecting endorsements, he still may have had several cooperating nations endorsing him for the takeover... a subtle invasion of a few nations into a mega region is basically what he is doing.

b) Thedoc was for a long time my only nation, because of this incident, I have created my first puppet nation - Thedocia.... both of these nations were born into the Pacific and therefore, 'natives' Thedoc has resided in the Pacific for as long as it has been created... minus a short period where I was banned by former Delegates Sudeten and InfernoIce for speaking out against them... and my current period in the Pacific Army while in Exile. According to the rules, it is a violation to leave 'natives' banned in perpetuity, which is what he is doing.

I still think s griefing. I mean look the guy really doesn't do anything else except eject people from the region. I think in addition to the percentage ejected but the number eject over a period of time.
For example...20 a day for 5 days.
Thats griefing.

Cog, your idea of creating new puppets to make a post on a regional board is considered spam. I'd advise against doing so.

The telegram issue is a tricky one. Should any Mod be alerted to an over abundance of messages sent to recipients from the same player (puppets included here), there of course would be an investigation regarding spam. Please, dont spam.

<snip>

In a region as large as the Pacific, there should be a legal mechanism to allow UN member nations to campaign for endorsements (or to convice people to remove their endorsement from someone). Perhaps such a mechanism could be creating a thread on the forums here and providing a link to the thread on the Civil Headquarters board?

I also note that Francos Spain has dropped to 186 endorsements. The rate of decline seems to be slowing down, but it's still declining.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

Yeah, Francos will likely lose the region.

That said, I agree there should be rules allowing politiking in such regions. There aren't though. And I hesitate to allow anyone who wants to to TM everyone in the region. I know that is spam, tho it is a delicate issue.

This is something that would be great to get an actual rule on, and not just advice, tho I know that is hard to come by.

Cog, your idea of creating new puppets to make a post on a regional board is considered spam. I'd advise against doing so.

The telegram issue is a tricky one. Should any Mod be alerted to an over abundance of messages sent to recipients from the same player (puppets included here), there of course would be an investigation regarding spam. Please, dont spam.

Great difference you point out here, if they are all puppets of the same player this should be spam.

But if you get a true politiking campaign from all the different residents of the region, and every nation involved personaly contacts 3 -5 nations about there platform, might not be spam. It is a fine line, but I think if the region itself showed such a combined interest in the region's politcs, it could be permissable, depending of course.

However, the claim that we were non-natives because Francos came from within is a falacy...

You're not ruled a non-native. Since this was a coup from within, no distinction is made between natives and non-natives at all. The rules for invasions (regarding rights of natives vs. the non-native invaders) do not apply here.

Now, personally, I don't like the situation at all. it seems unduly harsh to let an endorsement-swapper play around with Regional Controls like this. He's eject-happy, that's for sure.

I'd like to re-itterate my point that Delegates should not by default have access to the banning portion of regional controls. This applies most strongly in the pacifics.

Ballotonia

The Delegates of the Pacifics used to use their booting power to get rid of spammers. Unfortunatly, someone has taken that just a step too far.

Cog, your idea of creating new puppets to make a post on a regional board is considered spam. I'd advise against doing so.

The telegram issue is a tricky one. Should any Mod be alerted to an over abundance of messages sent to recipients from the same player (puppets included here), there of course would be an investigation regarding spam. Please, dont spam.

but i can send in puppets if i behave like a good little girl, right? ;)

Cog, your idea of creating new puppets to make a post on a regional board is considered spam. I'd advise against doing so.

The telegram issue is a tricky one. Should any Mod be alerted to an over abundance of messages sent to recipients from the same player (puppets included here), there of course would be an investigation regarding spam. Please, dont spam.

My apologies, let me clarify my meaning:

Many, many nations have been banned. Each nation could send one puppet, in series (not all at once) into The Pacific to make the announcement. It would not be a single nation sending puppet after puppet after puppet. Furthermore, the announcement would only be posted once for every ten other messages posted to the regional board. Perhaps this is also unacceptable?

If the above is also unacceptable, then I would suggest that my above idea be modified such that only one announcement be made by one puppet. This would be less effective, though, and a new plan is required.

Are chain telegrams acceptable? That is, sending the following to five UN member nations in "The Pacific": "Please unendorse Francos Spain and send this message along to whomever you feel cares about this situation."

If chain telegrams are also unacceptable, then we could just try the slow approach: Keep talking about it in the forums and the Rejected Realms message board and hope that enough people wake up to what Francos Spain is doing.

I do most sincerely apologize for advocating a plan that breaks the rules. :oops:

--The Penitent States of Cogitation

Cog, it's alright. There's a fine line here, and I'm trying to not put one down in big bold black, as that could prove disasterous, and I like seeing the players handle situations on their own.

Getting to your suggestions:

Would you want to keep recieving the same "Come join my region" ad posted in your region - regardless of wether the nation's posting it are the same player or not?

The chain letter is also spam, just as in real life we all hate getting those long chain letters about some uncle's cousin's friend's husband's...nephew's niece needs...etc.


I dont want to advocate any actions, but I would ask why the link to an offsite forum, or this thread, could not be included in the TGs sent along the guidelines of your first Telegram idea?

I dont want to advocate any actions, but I would ask why the link to an offsite forum, or this thread, could not be included in the TGs sent along the guidelines of your first Telegram idea?

That's... exactly what I'm suggesting. :? Not a long-winded explanation in the message itself, but rather a URL to such a discussion (such as this thread).

...

I'm trying to figure out where I became unclear.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

Ok, I think we're just missing each other.

Posting such a message on the regional board repeatedly in a concerted manner could be considered spam. As could a chain Telegram (undoubtedly, some people will recieve quite a few of them before it's run it's course).

However, if every player ejected were to telegram 3-4 other nations in the Pacific, sending them the link to this thread and the link to an offsite forum, such actions would hardly be construed as spam. Notice I used "player" rather than "nation."

However, if every player ejected were to telegram 3-4 other nations in the Pacific, sending them the link to this thread and the link to an offsite forum, such actions would hardly be construed as spam. Notice I used "player" rather than "nation."

Okay, so when I quoted Blab, above, in my earlier post, his idea is within rules?

In that case, I support Blab's idea with the possible modification that each telegram be a brief statement (2 or 3 sentences) with a URL to this topic.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

Pretty much ;) Just remember, I said PLAYER, not nation.

Pretty much ;) Just remember, I said PLAYER, not nation.

Right, puppets of banned nations don't count; I assume that this includes nations operated by two or more different people operating from the same IP address.

Somebody should start telegramming the nations that have endorsed Francos Spain recently as he's starting to gain in endorsements again. Looking at the endorsement list for Francos Spain, that would be "Elljaye of York" through "Pag Ben Ur".

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

Somebody should start telegramming the nations that have endorsed Francos Spain recently

Done that, even prior to reading your suggestion. So my suggestion is for others NOT to. Let's try to minimize the TM traffic here, ok?

BTW, I didn't ask for them to do anything in particular, just gave a brief explanation of the situation and referred them to both the previous as Francos' off-site forum. If they want to ask what to do now, I'll refer them to this thread and let them make up their own minds.

Ballotonia

Done that, even prior to reading your... <snip> ...and let them make up their own minds.

Ballotonia++

In that case, I retract my suggestion.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

Francos has been deleted. Wow. :D But what was the exact reason?

http://www.chip.ro/forum/images/smiles/10488628.gif

Francos has been deleted. Wow. :D But what was the exact reason?




Ahhh, shush! :wink: Do we really need ta' look this 'ere gift horse in the mouth.

It happened during the crash, and according to the news, the crash wasdue to a power failure that Max didn't notice because he was away at the time.

The deletion may not have been intentional; it might have been due to a game bug.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

Yesssssss, we really do need a reason! It was stated repeatedly that Francos Spain was doing nothing wrong. Either Francos Spain finally did something wrong or the mods have changed their stance. We need to know this information for sake of not having our nations deleted...and getting rid of any other tyrannical Delegates!


Francos has been deleted. Wow. :D But what was the exact reason?



Ahhh, shush! :wink: Do we really need ta' look this 'ere gift horse in the mouth.

Morco, i think it was all that voodoo i did and the karma that hit him.
*cough cough*

It happened during the crash, and according to the news, the crash wasdue to a power failure that Max didn't notice because he was away at the time.

The deletion may not have been intentional; it might have been due to a game bug.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

Hurrah for bugs!

Actually, a lot of nations disappeared. It went down from over 400 thousand. i'm assuming they were all created after a certain date...

The deletion may not have been intentional; it might have been due to a game bug.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

a bug that deletes the much critisiced delegate of the pacific? smart bug 8)

I would tend to say it wasn't specific Moderator intervention....


Mind you, I haven't heard from everyone, but normally if they intervene, don't they remove ejected nations from the ban list? Several are still banned as I have confirmed, including mine.

Yes, Thedoc, i think it was a bug:

The Pacific:
# 5 minutes ago: Francos spain departed this region for Lazarus.
Lazarus:
# 3 minutes ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ceased to exist.
# 5 minutes ago: Francos spain arrived from The Pacific.

So the nation actually still exists. Nasty, i hope he won't get back...

But what a smart bug ! How is that Windows doesn't have bugs as smart as this one LOL?

It was indeed a bug. Francos has been resurrected, and I am asking that no actions be taken in The Pacific for 48 hours to allow Francos to regain UN membership, and his delegate position.

I ask this in the interest of fair play.

fair play eh?


So, Neutered... when you ask us to take NO ACTION now, it is considered fair play...

Which means, we are not allowed to use the only legal methods provided to us.... OURSELVES... to retake our region...

So in essence, for days you have been informing us that no moderator intervention is being taken on our behalf... because that would not be fair, we were overthrown 'legally'... but now the moderators are stepping in on the behalf of Francos, not just in recreating his nation... but by mandating that those who oppose him can take no action during this time?

His nation was deleted by a bug, not by anything he was responsible for. I am asking that you refrain from taking action for 48 hours.

Asking?

Or Mandating?


There is a difference...

We asked that in the interest of 'Fair Play' the mods would take a look at Francos' actions and step in...

You along with others stated that his actions weren't necessarily FAIR, but they were LEGAL...


There is nothing ILLEGAL about us now taking action under this swing of events...

Now, according to this...

"It is against the rules to hijack someone else's nation, and if we see someone do it, we'll ban them. If we don't see it happen, though, and someone changes your password and e-mail address, I'm afraid you're on your own. As far as the game is concerned, your government has been overthrown in a coup."


The mods have established a policy wherein outside 'bugs' are rationalized via Political occurances... a 'hacker' being turned into a 'coup'...

Now in THIS situation... an accidental deletion by the system can easily be rationalized as 'The Black Plague' wiping out his population but miraculously, by the intervention of the Gods (Mods) the nation was saved with a few people around... now, Of course, no one would want to associate with someone who is recovering from the Plague... so he must gradually regain the trust of nations to recieve endorsements...

If the Pacific REALLY wants to see him as Delegate, I will not be the one to stand in his way... I trust that since we were able to remove over 100 endorsements by giving the truth to the people, he will never be a threat again... there would be no need to ban him even if we were to retake the region...

A technical issue arrose outside of the NS world. As far as the game is concerned, the crash never occured, thus, taking advantage of it, would in my opinion, be the equivelent of Godmodding. I support Neuts decision here.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling

Salusa, when something similar happened to Thedoc (he had lost over 100 endorsements because of another bug) why didn't you people take his side?! Immediatelly after that Francos become delegate. You didn't asked Francos at all to fair-play, didn't you?

mmm, i can understand the fair play issue, but still, consider this...
many of us had nations hidden in the pacific, we let them out today, because we thought francos was gone, and we could regain the pacific..
now, francos is back, and you ask us not to collect endorsments, but our nations will be banned at reset time, and all this hard work and preparation was for nothing, also because of this bug..
now i ask you, is this fair?

We're still working on the endorsement bug, and no, things aren't perfectly fair, we are just doing the best that we can, and are asking you to help us.

All I am asking is that 'Fair Play' be applied to one and all and not just one side...


If Francos is allowed to move back into the region and recruit... reciprocally, so should anyone else who chooses...


It is OUR side which is at the disadvantage here... Francos has formed a small group of allies around him, InfernoIce and Poskrebsky (sic)

These are the only two nations allowed to recruit endorsements under his reign and stand to take over if we cannot recruit enough before reset... everyone else who has begun to, has been ejected and banned. THEY can just as easily recruit and shore up their status over the coming hours...

In fact, for all intensive purposes, Francos was working with InfernoIce all along, a former Pacific tyrant who came into the region again as soon as Francos regained control... Francos, an unknown may have been won the Delegacy specifically so that Inferno could retake it later... this is the chance for those plans to come to fruition.

Oh God Salusa... You ask for fair-play, but only for him... Then ok, fair-play will it be. No one will get booted out of Pacific if any of us becomes delegate for ... 47 hours. But if InfernoIce becomes, be sure he'll boot us all, and Francos maybe. (I'd rofl if i see that).
As i pointed out, Francos is not in the Pacific yet, and 1 hour 30 min has already passed.

He also might have a life outside of NationStates and hasnt been back to see if Francos Spain is around...thus, 48 hours.

The key here is that the server crash was "Out of Game" and the delegacy is "In Game" and it is very bad playing form in all RPs, to let one effect the other.

No matter what the player, I'd judge the same way. I have nothing whatsoever to do with The Pacific, and am truly impartial.

Ok, fair... then the count will start since he'll move to the Pacific. But at the same moment, would you please lift the bans ? Just to be real fair-play? Because as i said, you didn't helped Thedoc with that endorsement lost.

When I say "fair play" I mean to say "let the game get back to where it was, pre-server crash." In other words, let Francos Spain regain the delegacy, and take up where we left off when the server crashed - or as close to it as possible.

Technical issues with the game however... how are those considered 'in-game'


Now, mind you, the endorsement glitch being referred to, caused many nations that had voluntarily given their endorsements to me to be removed... a 'technical' issue here affected the RP aspect of the game and nothing was done about it... I'm glad that you are working on the fix, but in a Net game, technical issues will affect RP, that's a part of the environment we're working with... but as for what we've seen... only ONE nation in the Pacific was deleted during the downtime... Francos Spain...

This appears more than influenced by exterior forces alone... exterior causes are hardly selective in such a manner...



Neut... you want us to let Francos get back to his previous standing before the crash?

When the ingame glitch caused me to lose nearly 150 endorsements overnight, all we got from the mods was a 'eh, go back and recruit' which I did, however... no Mods asked for the other nations in the Pacific or outside forces to step back and let me get back to my former position... Francos took this as his opportunity to speedily rise in endorsements to challenge the Delegacy

ummmm...
pre-server crash, no one knew about our nations hiding in the pacific...
how do you want to solve that?

The manner in which Francos Spain has been talking to and treating people has alienated many, many people. I have no doubts that he will continue to alienate people, such that he will lose the Delegacy, anyway, even with the Neutered-imposed "grace time" being granted to Francos Spain.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

cog, i'm not worried about francos anymore...
i'm worried about infernoice!
he's next in line for delegacy, and he will ban us all..

Hmmm... I'm beginning to view this situation as somewhat ridiculous now.
I believed the moderators stance in all of this (however tyrannical Francos may be) to have been correct and within the rules of the game.
However, I find it somewhat disturbing (If rumours are to believed) that Francos was THE ONLY ONE, to have suffered this "Bug".
Whilst it is most unfortunate, for poor Francos, I believe it should be considered an "Act of God" - In much the same way as if a Nations Password gets "Stumbled upon" and that nation subsequently falls into the control of another player.
Personally I dont think Francos "Insurance" should pay out.

Hmmm... I'm beginning to view this situation as somewhat ridiculous now.
I believed the moderators stance in all of this (however tyrannical Francos may be) to have been correct and within the rules of the game.
However, I find it somewhat disturbing (If rumours are to believed) that Francos was THE ONLY ONE, to have suffered this "Bug".
Whilst it is most unfortunate, for poor Francos, I believe it should be considered an "Act of God" - In much the same way as if a Nations Password gets "Stumbled upon" and that nation subsequently falls into the control of another player.
Personally I dont think Francos "Insurance" should pay out.

Francos Spain wasn't the only one. During the crash, I saw two nations in The Rejecetd Realms get deleted and saw one nation moving from one region to another. I posted the details in the NetWorkRadio forums, in this (http://networkradio.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=Information&action=display&num=1062440131) topic.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

Removed double post.

Hey Francos just lost his flag and got kicked out of the UN. ROFL HAHAHAHAHA..... I think that there is a God of NS, and it's coming down on Francos, hard.... Neut, watch out! :wink:

Hey Francos just lost his flag and got kicked out of the UN. ROFL HAHAHAHAHA..... I think that there is a God of NS, and it's coming down on Francos, hard.... Neut, watch out! :wink: Just kidding, don't take me seriously... :oops:

Ok, Francos is back

3 minutes ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain arrived from Lazarus.

48 hours from this point forward...

It is unfortunate that my nation was mistakenly deleted by the game, but errors do happen and I thank the moderators for their effort to restore the situation to its pre-crash condition.

However, there are those out there who are less than obedient to NS mod declarations. It has been explicitly stated that the Pacific Army not undergo an invasion of the Pacific, yet this ruling is being ignored and a viscious campaign is being waged as I type this. The nation of Delphina has accrued over 40 endorsements since the game was restored, and there is a veritable, never-ending stream of spam on the Pacific Civil Headquarters reading "Unendorse [nation x], endorse [nation y] instead!" In addition to this, I have been been told that nations are receiving a flood of telegrams to the same effect.

I would request that a moderator ask Delphina and other nations swooping in to capitalize on this error to stop what they are doing and resume in 48 hours.

Alternatively, I was told via telegram that a similar thing happened to the region, "the East Pacific," and that the moderators were able to manually restore delegate status to the former delegate so he could defend his region against invaders. Could such an action be performed for me, given the situation, or were the circumstances different?

Oh, and as for this:

Salusa, when something similar happened to Thedoc (he had lost over 100 endorsements because of another bug) why didn't you people take his side?! Immediatelly after that Francos become delegate. You didn't asked Francos at all to fair-play, didn't you?

I checked the dates, and I actually became delegate two weeks after this glitch occured.

Anyway, I thank the NS moderators for their time spent on this situation in the Pacific.

But if you were manually restored, you would have to either

a) eject Poskrebyshev(did I spell that right?) and InfernoIce, your main supporters

or

b) lose your Delegate status to one of them in the next update, as you would start with zero endorsements and they with about 90 and about 110, respectively.

True, but the idea is to let the delegate defend against invaders. If I lose the delegacy at the next update, that will be fine, since the Pacific Army will have been neutralized. Or, if the moderators would allow me to permit InfernoIce, the leading candidate for delegate at the next update, to eject the Pacific Army invaders (whom I have a list of), that would also be fine.

And as far as I know, my endorsements will automatically return when I get my UN e-mail tomorrow.

Actually, endorsements disappear if you leave the UN, are deleted, or are out of a region when an update occurs.

Can the Pacific Army really be classified as "invaders". They're composed primarily of nations who were grief-banned by the last delegate after all.

Francos perhaps you missed this in the other thread ?!?!

No ejections from the region will be allowed for this period. However, nor will moving new nations into the Region.

It is unfortunate that my nation was mistakenly deleted by the game, but errors do happen and I thank the moderators for their effort to restore the situation to its pre-crash condition.

However, there are those out there who are less than obedient to NS mod declarations. It has been explicitly stated that the Pacific Army not undergo an invasion of the Pacific, yet this ruling is being ignored and a viscious campaign is being waged as I type this. The nation of Delphina has accrued over 40 endorsements since the game was restored, and there is a veritable, never-ending stream of spam on the Pacific Civil Headquarters reading "Unendorse [nation x], endorse [nation y] instead!" In addition to this, I have been been told that nations are receiving a flood of telegrams to the same effect.

I would request that a moderator ask Delphina and other nations swooping in to capitalize on this error to stop what they are doing and resume in 48 hours.

Alternatively, I was told via telegram that a similar thing happened to the region, "the East Pacific," and that the moderators were able to manually restore delegate status to the former delegate so he could defend his region against invaders. Could such an action be performed for me, given the situation, or were the circumstances different?

Oh, and as for this:

Salusa, when something similar happened to Thedoc (he had lost over 100 endorsements because of another bug) why didn't you people take his side?! Immediatelly after that Francos become delegate. You didn't asked Francos at all to fair-play, didn't you?

I checked the dates, and I actually became delegate two weeks after this glitch occured.

Anyway, I thank the NS moderators for their time spent on this situation in the Pacific.
Here is the kicker, Delphina is not an invader. If I remember correctly her nation is what I like to refer to as a plant. So Francos, if the Mods manualy restore your delegacy are you going to forget the nations that removed their cover in the intrest of "fair play"?

His nation was deleted by a bug, not by anything he was responsible for. I am asking that you refrain from taking action for 48 hours.

So, the two nations deleted from the Rejected Realms during the NationStates black-out were also part of the bug?

So, I hope we do at least know why a few nations were deleted by a "bug?"

Salusa, when something similar happened to Thedoc (he had lost over 100 endorsements because of another bug) why didn't you people take his side?! Immediatelly after that Francos become delegate. You didn't asked Francos at all to fair-play, didn't you?

Well, I don't recall whaty happened in Theodoc, but if you had requested this at the time, then you are right it should have been requested not to be invaded. Same thing happened in the East Pacific. The mods requested fair play, even though fair play is somewhat impossible in such a circumstance.

As to asking Frnacos to play fair... are you kidding? Most players are anit-invasion, or so it seems, and the mods are no exception. Had he broken a rule, he would have been kicked. Merely look outside the Pacific for a moment and you will realize that.

All I am asking is that 'Fair Play' be applied to one and all and not just one side...


If Francos is allowed to move back into the region and recruit... reciprocally, so should anyone else who chooses...


It is OUR side which is at the disadvantage here... Francos has formed a small group of allies around him, InfernoIce and Poskrebsky (sic)


Don't joke yourself. Let Francos try to bulid himself up again and I assure you, unless this game works differently then I expect, he won't get back into power in that region, or won;t hold it for more then a week if he does.

Being deleted due to a "bug" has assured his demise from power in the region. Or at least, if things work in the same way that they have before....

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

True, but the idea is to let the delegate defend against invaders. If I lose the delegacy at the next update, that will be fine, since the Pacific Army will have been neutralized. Or, if the moderators would allow me to permit InfernoIce, the leading candidate for delegate at the next update, to eject the Pacific Army invaders (whom I have a list of), that would also be fine.

And as far as I know, my endorsements will automatically return when I get my UN e-mail tomorrow.

Watch out for the AAC as well. I believe they have at least taken notice of your situation.

My thoughts exactly. The fact that they refer to us as "invaders" is preposterous. 90% of the nations that are in the Pacific Army are nations that Francos Spain has griefed-banned. And another 5% are nations that were born in the Pacific and decided to move to Pacific Army before Francos Spain started his delegacy-dictatorship. But of course the true reason they refer to us as "invaders" is for propaganda purposes.

If you go to a region to take out the current Delegate you are invading the power sturcture, thus an invader.

Your goal maybe different then classic invaders, but if you look around in the region you see that you would not be the only group of Anti-Invasion Invaders (see AAC amongst many others).

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

I understand this. However, I think if you step back for a second you can see that this is a respanble request made by the mods.

As stated, what happned when the game was down was a bug (or perhaps more likely an "accident") and should not affect game play.

If you allow Francos or his crew two days to try to get things back to normal, it won't hurt you. How did Francos grow strong? He endorsemed people, and got them tro endorse him back. He slowwly rose the ranks. Well those who endorseed him who are not ivnaders clearly must not be very active in the game. Chances are they will not re-endorse him as he attempts to rise to heights again.

If you take the 2 days to create new nations, get UN statyus for these new nations, and attack then after the 2 days, you will likely easily take the region back over with non-banned nations.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

True, that would be the case, but I believe he will get all the endorsements he had when he got deleted back once he gets into the UN.

If this is your first and/or main nation, this may be the first time you have run into circumstance that are even similiar. I can tell you from past experience when a non-invader is accidently thrust from their region and/or from power, they have been unable to reclaim their original positon.

We have not seen this with an invader, so maybe we will see, but I speculate it will not be much different then from before.

I think what is happening is fair. Francos is a dictator, now he's acting all shocked and supprised that 200 nations have banded together to see him thrown out on his but?

its an all out war we dont care who the next delegate is so long as it isnt francos or infernoice. We told you francos, that we were comming for you and all of us will keep comming till you fall, so weather you run and hide or stay and fight we the 200 or so nations you banned will stand giggling over your rotting nation!!! 8) now you have a nice day son.

I think what is happening is fair. Francos is a dictator, now he's acting all shocked and supprised that 200 nations have banded together to see him thrown out on his but?


What in the world are you talking about? Read the thread. He wasn't thrown out, he was deleted by a "bug." Please, try to read before responding.


its an all out war we dont care who the next delegate is so long as it isnt francos or infernoice. We told you francos, that we were comming for you and all of us will keep comming till you fall, so weather you run and hide or stay and fight we the 200 or so nations you banned will stand giggling over your rotting nation!!! 8) now you have a nice day son.

Question for the mods (tho discussion by non-mods is always welcome, of course):


There are many groups bent on disregarding mod requests to stay out of The Pacific, not to invade it for 2 days.

Is it okay for players to go in and prop him up in the UN just to prevent players from cheating before the 2 days are over?

I feel that he will lose the endorsemnt anyway, just would like to do my part to see that he has 2 days to do so.

o don't care about francos, he can come in and collect endorsments for 48 hours...
whatever
but i'm worried about infernoice, he will throw us out, and we are not allowed to bring in new nations, or actively win endorsments?
not really fair, is it..

A fair is a big place with cows, pony rides, and funnel cakes. It has nothing to do with this game.

A fair is a big place with cows, pony rides, and funnel cakes. It has nothing to do with this game.

Aye, life is indeed not a fair. Guys, gals, please. Show yourselves to be better than what you accuse Francos of being.



In response to Ackbar, I am not making a ruling. Simply requesting that the players of this game respect my wishes and allow Francos to return to a pre-bug status.


Delphina, I understand the concern about Infernoice, and stated that no ejections should occur. However, you already had/have one plant, how hard would it be to create another?

well if anyone was ejected unceremoniously or just wants out of the Pacific, Adelaide's doors are always open to newcomers/ refugees

In response to Ackbar, I am not making a ruling. Simply requesting that the players of this game respect my wishes and allow Francos to return to a pre-bug status.

You're a moderator, and as such your words carry weight. Your request is a Mod position statement, and speaks for all Mods. This comes with being a Mod. If you didn't want to intervene as a Mod, you should not have spoken out as a Mod.

Pretending what you said wasn't a ruling because you used the word 'request' is IMHO a cop-out, attempting to use your position as a Mod to intervene without having to admit you're doing so.

Ballotonia

In response to Ackbar, I am not making a ruling. Simply requesting that the players of this game respect my wishes and allow Francos to return to a pre-bug status.

You're a moderator, and as such your words carry weight. Your request is a Mod position statement, and speaks for all Mods. This comes with being a Mod. If you didn't want to intervene as a Mod, you should not have spoken out as a Mod.

Pretending what you said wasn't a ruling because you used the word 'request' is IMHO a cop-out, attempting to use your position as a Mod to intervene without having to admit you're doing so.

Ballotonia

Your point is moot since I will (probably) be UN Delegate of the Pacific again by this time tomorrow.

Your point is moot since I will (probably) be UN Delegate of the Pacific again by this time tomorrow.

My argument above is regarding the meaning of Mod behaviour and statements. That it comes up in your case doesn't make you central to my argument. You could be [admin] tomorrow for all I care, my point stands as is.

Ballotonia

In response to Ackbar, I am not making a ruling. Simply requesting that the players of this game respect my wishes and allow Francos to return to a pre-bug status.

You're a moderator, and as such your words carry weight. Your request is a Mod position statement, and speaks for all Mods. This comes with being a Mod. If you didn't want to intervene as a Mod, you should not have spoken out as a Mod.

Pretending what you said wasn't a ruling because you used the word 'request' is IMHO a cop-out, attempting to use your position as a Mod to intervene without having to admit you're doing so.

I too automatically take such requests as instructions. I don't think it is possible for a moderator to make a statement like the above without it being an order. Most of the rules around region crashing and griefing, are collections of Mod quotes gathered by players, we use Mod "case law" pronouncements to muddle through new situations.

InfernoIce just ejected a bunch of us en mass during the mod's "suggested" (can't make an actual ruling when we need it) 48 hours no-ejection period. Most of us were either plants or moved in before the 48 hours began.

Are you going to do something now, or still sit on your hands?

I'm sorry for being so aggitated, but it makes me angry that we were following an implied ruling, while InfernoIce was able to just throw it out the window.

There are several times when other mods and myself will make a request. We, though it could have been a bit clearer here. We do not always make rulings. There are times when slight nudges are better than strong blows, and the great majority of players are considerate enough to go along with them enough to make it worthwhile.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling

well surprise surprise...
infernoice didn't listen...

Yep, bloody typical really... :roll:

There are several times when other mods and myself will make a request. We, though it could have been a bit clearer here. We do not always make rulings. There are times when slight nudges are better than strong blows, and the great majority of players are considerate enough to go along with them enough to make it worthwhile.

Slight nudging can work great when dealing with individual players, as one can directly appeal to their sensibility and courtesy on a personal level. Any such 'request' in a very heated situation and aimed at a few thousand players is either going to be ignored or will have to be seen as an official ruling for it to matter at all. Mobs cannot be addressed on the basis of individual responsibility.

If this 'request' is not going to be backed up by something now, it was just meaningless words in the first place and shouldn't have been uttered at all.

Ballotonia

There are several times when other mods and myself will make a request. We, though it could have been a bit clearer here. We do not always make rulings. There are times when slight nudges are better than strong blows, and the great majority of players are considerate enough to go along with them enough to make it worthwhile.

SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling

In this case you made a "request" to the many nations that wanted to oust Francos. A significant number actually listened thus guaranteeing InfernoIce's ascension to delegate. Had InfernoIce honoured your second "request" not to ban for 48 hours there would have been no problem. He didn't.

Do you see the problem here? You mods have done nothing but teach dozens of nations that ignoring your "requests" is the only way to win at the game.

Do you see the problem here? You mods have done nothing but teach dozens of nations that ignoring your "requests" is the only way to win at the game.

Or at least to be on a level playing field. :x