NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: SSU, does any of this get into your skull?

Problem is, we have no need to launch a war or anything like that as we only plan to develop our nation economically, politically and militarily.

ooc: sigh

SSU, I was talking out of character, meaning that I am addressing you, (whoever you are :tongue:) the person, not SSU the nation. If I was addressing you in IC, I would be replying with a Communique or telegram or something formal. ooc is informal communication between players.

Try to post once using ooc:

OOC:LOL it makes me laugh that players cant use ooc.
IC:the NERV conglomerate is getting restless and needs an answer to weather it can join the coalition or become a supervisory nation

OOC: (Yes, I realize I'm responding to an IC post OOC, but it's more efficient to just do it this way) NERV, you're going to have to wait until you're approved by 3/4 of the members.

ooc: this whole ooc, ic thing is getting ridiculous.

[OoC; Well this has gotten into one big mess. -Goes back and reads all the pages-]

OOC:too right!!

(OOC: If high quality RPs had as many posts and views as Fail threads, NS would enter a Golden Age.)

ooc:true!

OOC:I posted this in the other thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=583508) about these ridiculous nuclear fantasies. I see now it is more appropriate here.OOC: Just so we're clear:

FSSU is building nukes ten times larger than the largest weapon ever tested on the face of the Earth. Keep in mind they are building them in a fraction of the time, and with a tiny fraction of the manpower the Soviet Union possessed.

FSSU is burying, yes burying these devices on their own soil. These are not deterrent devices. These are not defensive devices. These devices are useless for everything the nuclear weapon was ever or ever will be useful for. There is no purpose to these weapons. No delivery system. No retaliatory threat against aggressor nations. These weapons pose by their very existence, because of their size, not only a complete existential threat to every citizen of the FSSU, but a marginal one to every single person on the planet.

FSSU has openly admitted to their plans for the other, smaller (smaller being only relative. 200MT is just as delusional a yield for a warhead as 500MT) weapons. Sale on the international arms market. How on earth is this being ignored? This itself makes any nuclear proliferation regulation they may have agreed to utterly and absolutely meaningless. This is a small state coordinating the construction of the most (ludicrously) destructive devices even the biggest RL megalomaniacs never dreamed of, and freely admitting to their intention to sell them. To anyone.

The fact that no-one has yet commented on either of these facts has me flabbergasted.

No FSSU, I'm not finished with you yet.

You seem to be under several illusions about the nature of nuclear weapons, and the nature of your own situation. Nuclear weapons are not an equalizing factor in any international diplomatic relationship. They are a purely destabilizing element in foreign policy, for obvious reasons. You say they "even out the playing field"? They completely shatter any and all trust necessary for meaningful international relations. You say you need them, that you have the right to defend yourselves with them? You forfeit all diplomatic respect when your default response to nations that have a very real concern about this sort of coalition (whose stated goal is the proliferation of nuclear weapons of an irresponsible size and in an irresponsible way) is simply "smaller nations have the same right as larger ones to have nuclear capabilities", or "larger nations shouldn't bully smaller ones", or "larger nations should not be the world police". Those are not effective counterarguments. Those are phrases that reinforce the generally bad image that you have made for yourself with this coalition. Forming a coalition with the stated goal of bringing more nuclear weapons into existence and then openly admitting to an intention to sell these devices is the very opposite of the security you wanted, the defense these things were supposed to bring.

You need to understand that to other nations, regardless of whether or not, as you say, these weapons will be used against them, the very existence of such devices is a real and pressing threat, not just to their national security, but to the world order that keeps civilization from falling into chaos. There is no way you can assure a country that they are safe when you have the power to annihilate them. This is why Amero-Soviet relations fundamentally did not work. You cannot negotiate when a man has a gun to your head and you have a gun to his.

This coalition and its stated goal is, whether you say so or not, a threat. A destabilizing factor in the world. It's very nature makes it so. There can be no argument about it. You cannot respond simply with, as you are apt to do, "but we will never use these offensively or to destabilize the region". That is simply impossible, considering the weapons involved. They are by their nature threatening, and by their existence destabilizing. There is no way you can do a thing like this and not expect heavy opposition from the international community.

You have brought no security, only hostility, scrutiny, and the very real possibility of a devastating war. Your coalition's own actions have brought it, no-one else's, and you cannot deny that this is a possibility you have made for yourself. The building of nukes is and always will be a threat, and your threat, whether you call it that or not, is taken very seriously.

I can't understand why your allies haven't seen the obvious foreign policy suicide this sort of coalition is. It is literally akin to painting the largest set of cross-hairs in the world on your country's soil, with the message, "I dare you".

In closing, there are no moral, legal, or even "fairness-based" justifications for this coalition. It is not a right to have nuclear weapons. It is a very costly burden, buying almost nonexistent (truly nonexistent, the way you are planning to sell these and bury the largest ones) security at the cost of certain distrust from everyone else. I hope you're happy with it, because that's what you got.

Also, appeals to the WA are useless. It doesn't exist in International Incidents. Neither does the "World Court", which has even less relation to NS than the WA.



And for the love of God, start understanding the difference between OOC and IC.

OOC:I posted this in the other thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=583508) about these ridiculous nuclear fantasies. I see now it is more appropriate here.
And for the love of God, start understanding the difference between OOC and IC.

Give it a rest.

OOC:Give what a rest?

Your blab mouthing.

Your blab mouthing.
OOC: Truly you have no need of nuclear weaponry. With such rapier wit, it is only a matter of time before your enemies simply cower at home in shame, lest they encounter the full brunt of your mighty scorn and razor tongue.

OOC: Why does it concern you if other nations have nuclear bombs in possession? What makes your nation so unique to possess them and that other nations cannot possess the same weapons?

OOC: We don't possess nuclear weapons. We possess the systems necessary to defend our nation from them, but we do not possess any weapons of mass destruction, period. We believe that within the current international environment, they are unnecessary and to a degree, self-defeating.

In fact, I would estimate that many of the frequenters of International Incidents to not have nuclear weapons.

It all comes back to the fact that they are often more trouble than they're worth. You will make more enemies than friends possessing and selling these devices, and you will lose more security than you will gain engaging in this kind of proliferation. Is it fair that the international community feels threatened by the prospect of more nations having nuclear weapons? Maybe not. But they feel threatened all the same. And they respond to that.

I'm really not trying to pick on you. I just want you to understand why the mere existence of such weapons is so vividly disturbing on so many levels to so many nations in the world. They are an existential threat. Their very existence, no matter how secure anyone can make them, seriously destabilizes a region and seriously undermines the ability of nations in that region have meaningful, earnest diplomatic relationships.

Its not that your countries aren't good enough, or aren't well-run enough to handle the weapons (although some would make the argument that nations should be a certain size before engaging in this level of production). It's that the ability of one nation to seriously affect the state of the world (via a 500MT nuclear explosion, I still can't get over how insane a weapon that powerful would be to possess, let alone manufacture) is not, in anyone's view, conducive to positive international relationships.

Do you see what I mean? We aren't judging you, or the coalition. We are judging the existence of such devices to be dangerous, threatening, and disturbing in the hands of any nation, and the sale of weapons like this to be even worse, regardless of the one carrying out the act.

The world has enough nukes to doom us all. Defense isn't even an issue anymore. I can say with a certain degree of confidence that any nation, large or small, efficient or inefficient, well-aligned or maladjusted, would be internationally condemned, attacked, and hunted down for the unprovoked use of such weapons. Isn't that defense enough, without condemning entire continents or worlds to nuclear holocaust?

In closing, I don't want you or any of the other coalition nations to take this personally. We have no problem with you. The scale of the condemnation that has been associated with the forming of this coalition has had nothing to do with the coalition or its members. It has everything to do with the consequences, the raw power, of the items in question. A nuclear proliferation pact (essentially what this is) is very different than a pure, non-nuclear defensive pact. The implications are not so far reaching, and the damages associated with missteps and even slightly irrational actions are not so catastrophically costly.

[OoC] Some brief facts about this thread and arguments mentioned in it.

1.
Tehnicly you can make this coalition but....There is no legitimate base to build this alliance/coalition on both ICly and OOCly because there is no way that other powers will accept few countries with nukes to keep them away from their own interests and goals and they will consider you a threat to peace as you have allready probably seen in much of the responses.
Also someone mentioned a need to defend themselves from GWO and Four Heatons,again there is not a chance that your small alliance will be able to stop a nation of few billion as your entire joint population isnt large as his military,even someone attacks you with no reason youre not on your own and your not going to get blown away immediatly as someone larger will help you surely.Example:GWO blocades Affulia,22+ nations declare war on him,GWO gets saved by his inactivity,boredom of the Allied block and few nations who felt sorry for him.Thats my view of the war everyone else is entitled to his opinion.

2.Nations of 8 million people cannot support 2000 billion nuclear program,also the unwritten rule of NS International Incidents is that nations must have at least 100 million people to support military nuclear development program.
See numerous examples in real world politics.(Israel doesn't count as they didnt develop their nukes they were given to them from USA.)

3.The Wolf's Hold i doubt you can support "Strategic Missile Forces" if they are a military group everyone thinks they are.(Because of issiue number 2)

4.Salzland has a point so youshould better read Nuclear Arms Possession Act, WA Resolution #10 before you will not only be reported to the WA but also considered an act of war that gives all of the II countries a good reason to consider you as a potential threat and to take police action against "The Nuclear Coalition".


IC:



Federation of Cukarica

Official Diplomatic Depeche


To:all parties involved
From:International Crysis Bureau,Belgrade
Re:Nuclear Coalition

Federational Bureau urges all nations involved in assembling of this coalition to cease action immediately before some more militaristic nations take this matter into their own hands.You are making enemies very fast and they are very numerous.Unless you prolong this barbaric action and continiue to deteriorate world security we will be obliged to act with all diplomatic power we currently have in our grasp,we are not considering military action against you,yet.You have been warned.

OOC: I Cba reading 5 pages, so I'm leaving this sinking ship. Oh and Cukarica when i put Srategic Missile Forces, I mean my defense forces, sorry for the misunderstanding

To: All Nations
From: Wolf Hold Central Command

In light of recent events to do with our allies, the Central Command Of the Wolf Hold is abanoning any chances of this alliance due to its inneffective leadership of the FSSU. Therefrore we now offically will move against any attempt to create this coaliton if it is still lead by the FSSU.

status: DEFCON Gamma
NERV has decided that due to recent circumstances we will no longer join the coalition or become one of the supervisors it is in NERV's best interests to agree with the WA.
as so we now support the WA on all matters concerning the coalition.
we opt out of the coalition because our radiation scrubber technology has been completed.
we are taking a hostile stance towards the coalition.

status: DEFCON Gamma
NERV has decided that due to recent circumstances we will no longer join the coalition or become one of the supervisors it is in NERV's best interests to agree with the WA.
as so we now support the WA on all matters concerning the coalition.
we opt out of the coalition because our radiation scrubber technology has been completed.
we are taking a hostile stance towards the coalition.

OOC: Okay, for the last goddamn time: The WA Has No Power In International Incidents. If you still think they're that important, go whine to them but rest assured they won't give two sh*ts about this.

SSU yoo are taking to much power!! we express concern. The Coalition will continue its development, the international community is not allowed to draft the coalition's creation

[OoC; Yarr, he be right. SSU you are indeed a control freak. I suggest you back off for a couple days to avoid war and an utter loss of respect.]

ooc: i donnos, but only two official members left......... Laudren might be the third to leave

[OoC; Yarr, he be right. SSU you are indeed a control freak. I suggest you back off for a couple days to avoid war and an utter loss of respect.]

OOC: I suggest the same. If the Coalition decides continue with this, we'll be involved in a war. So, I suggest you think two times what you are going to do. Equally, I already sent my ultimatum to DI

I suggest to the coalition that you disband

I suggest to the coalition that you disband

that would be the last thing we do, and so far it might be the next thing we do

if you stop the coalition being nuclear then maybe we could have an alliance.

The Coalition must disband...it's dangerous for the International Security...

The Coalition must disband...it's dangerous for the International Security...

in your opinion

OOC: NERV, check your telegrams.

Okay. I have to take you lot to school now.

We don't possess nuclear weapons. We possess the systems necessary to defend our nation from them, but we do not possess any weapons of mass destruction, period.

Said systems will be defeated by mass employment of fast burning solid fueled ICBM's. Yes, brilliant pebbles and such too.

(via a 500MT nuclear explosion, I still can't get over how insane a weapon that powerful would be to possess, let alone manufacture)

Good lord man. This isn't sloika! Teller-Ulam can be scaled up to the gigaton range at LEAST. Past 50 megatons they're pretty much ~97% fusion (assuming proper tamper material - if you want a clean bomb)! The fission bomb providing the spark plug is easy enough to build, everything else is really a question of piling more fusion fuel on.

also the unwritten rule of NS International Incidents is that nations must have at least 100 million people to support military nuclear development program. See numerous examples in real world politics.(Israel doesn't count as they didnt develop their nukes they were given to them from USA.)


No no and no. The reactor parts and shit were sold to them by France and the US. The weapons are locally developed and made from locally produced enriched fissile material. We don't even have to use Israel as an example, South Africa in the 80's, Taiwan, Sweden (note the latter two didn't build any weapons, but south africa built a little stockpile of its own). There is no rule for having nuclear weapons in II that I have ever seen coherently explained in detail beyond arbitrary population numbers: if you really want a rule then it should be the ability to form a coherent sentence.

God knows me and Spiz are selling reactors that pump out enough pu-239 for 24,000 bombs a year and we still haven't heard a peep of protest from anyone... (sales pitch for you small folk: TURatomic is your friend).

What is the real intention of this coalition? Produce energy? Armament?

What is the real intention of this coalition? Produce energy? Armament?

OOC: We think both, as it's never been clear. I think the original idea was from a newb nation who wanted to gather loads of other newbies with n00ks to his cause in order to take on the big boys of II. This 'Coalition' is a far cry from the true alliances such as ODECON, AMNAT and ANTIFA (I think i got the last one right, but if i'm wrong please correct me)

OOC: the idea is sound except the nuke part i mean if u want nukes then wait til your nation is bigger. :P

OOC: the idea is sound except the nuke part i mean if u want nukes then wait til your nation is bigger. :P

Because of it I say this coalition only is going to generate tension (if it already has generated it). In any case, soon we will be on the verge of that someone declares war against the "Coalition"

Said systems will be defeated by mass employment of fast burning solid fueled ICBM's. Yes, brilliant pebbles and such too.
OOC: You're missing the point. We don't have nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons because these things do not accomplish meaningful foreign policy goals, period. These are only threatening weapons, and whether or not you intend to use them, it makes people nervous. The only reason I mentioned the systems we had in place was to illustrate that it is still possible to keep oneself reasonably well-defended without demanding world-ending nuclear capability.


Good lord man. This isn't sloika! Teller-Ulam can be scaled up to the gigaton range at LEAST. Past 50 megatons they're pretty much ~97% fusion (assuming proper tamper material - if you want a clean bomb)! The fission bomb providing the spark plug is easy enough to build, everything else is really a question of piling more fusion fuel on.
Again, you are missing my point. I wasn't attempting to challenge any given nations ability or will to manufacture such idiotically useless devices, just how useless their size makes them. These weapons are completely impractical for any sort of deployment, whether it be for deterrent or actual use. The use of one, just one, will affect the ecology of the planet enough to render any sort of benefit they give completely moot. Weapons this size are not weapons. They are suicide machines. Impossible to deliver to any sort of practical target with MT tech, utterly useless to leave them in your own country (or bury them, as some are wont to do), and thus useless for everything nuclear weapons were ever useful for.


God knows me and Spiz are selling reactors that pump out enough pu-239 for 24,000 bombs a year and we still haven't heard a peep of protest from anyone... (sales pitch for you small folk: TURatomic is your friend).
Selling the ability to power one's nation with nuclear technology is not at all the same thing as actively pursuing the sale of nuclear weapons on the international arms market.

the international community is not allowed to draft the coalition's creation
The international community will do exactly everything and anything it believes is necessary to secure stability. The premature possession and irresponsible sale of nuclear weapons is in direct contravention to that stability. You want you know why people want to dictate terms of the possession and sale of these devices? The very existence of such weapons is a clear and present threat to the stability of international relations.

i am prepared for war and have been for some time but i will not start a war in which nuclear weapons will be used we do not use nukes.

we no longer have any interest in this thread
goodbye!

The international community will do exactly everything and anything it believes is necessary to secure stability

Why are you trying to predict what the “international community” will do? I'm just as much of a member of the International Community as you are. I for one export nuclear weapons (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=581842). Try and dictate terms to me, and you will see how far this gets you.


You're missing the point. We don't have nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons because these things do not accomplish meaningful foreign policy goals, period

So no nuclear bunker busters? No nuclear ABMs? No tactical nukes? No battlefield chem weapons? None of these are potentially useful? Hahahaha.

So no nuclear bunker busters? No nuclear ABMs? No tactical nukes? No battlefield chem weapons? None of these are potentially useful? Hahahaha.

ooc: He is saying that diplomatically, such weapons are useless and only backfire upon the nation that originally launched them.

ooc: this whole ooc, ic thing is getting ridiculous.

ooc LOL watched the whole thing yesterday as others told SSU about ooc and ic as they keep posting ics back to other occs

ooc: He is saying that diplomatically, such weapons are useless and only backfire upon the nation that originally launched them.

That's nonsense. Loads of people have used nuclear weapons in NS and not lost allies. So he's wrong.

[snip]

ICly, Steel and Fire strongly disagrees with all that, and believes nuclear weapons are there to make things interesting. We're also perfectly willing to sell nuclear weapons and the plans to make them to anyone with the cash to shell out in exchange, and consider a little destabilization to be a good thing.

OOCly, in relation to NS, I can see numerous military uses for nuclear weapons, although most people will ignore them because they're a sort of game breaker. Yes, you can shoot them down, but when one hit can reduce your capital city to rubble it starts to get annoying when someone fires 100,000 ballistic missiles plus all those decoy things they add in to fake more radar signatures. Politically, nuclear technology is essentially a MacGuffin of greater proportions: some people greatly desire it, some think it's the devil, those who don't have it fear those who do. It's sort of like oil except on a larger, more destructive scale. S&F in particular has a massive nuclear arsenal simply because the mercenary company that used to own the whole country (long story involving nation switch) sold them and maintained its own stockpile to deter the international community. That, and S&F is an affectionate parody of the sorts of overly militaristic nations who dominate II, most of whom have nuclear arsenals and threaten people with them at the slightest provocation.

The international community will do exactly everything and anything it believes is necessary to secure stability. The premature possession and irresponsible sale of nuclear weapons is in direct contravention to that stability. You want you know why people want to dictate terms of the possession and sale of these devices? The very existence of such weapons is a clear and present threat to the stability of international relations.


your involvement will not go as far as aiding in the drafting of a Constitution

Why are you trying to predict what the “international community” will do? I'm just as much of a member of the International Community as you are. I for one export nuclear weapons (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=581842). Try and dictate terms to me, and you will see how far this gets you.
OOC: Christ, have I not been clear enough? I am telling you people why other people get concerned when a group of very small nations openly form a coalition for the expressed purpose of nuclear proliferation. My explanations for the international concern are, I feel, sound. I am not passing any sort of moral judgment on the manufacture or sale of such devices. I am making very clear the reasons why people who do this sort of thing face such consternation. Don't accuse me of "dictating terms" to you. I don't care what you do, so long as it doesn't impact my nation in a way I don't like.

So no nuclear bunker busters? No nuclear ABMs? No tactical nukes? No battlefield chem weapons? None of these are potentially useful? Hahahaha.
Read the post carefully: "meaningful foreign policy goals". A meaningful foreign policy goal is not the annihilation of an enemy city. That certainly is a meaningful strategic goal, a meaningful military goal, but our nation does not engage in any sort of military expansionist policy for any sake. We engage our contracted armed forces in cases of expressed material threats to our citizens. Almost nothing poses such a threat, as we keep to ourselves. A meaningful foreign policy goal is the formation of a trade pact, the formation of a reasonable defensive pact, the normalization of relations between nations. If you do engage in that sort of military policy, sure, I think those things could be very useful. But we don't, so they aren't, so we don't have them.

That's nonsense. Loads of people have used nuclear weapons in NS and not lost allies. So he's wrong.
He incorrectly represented my point. My point in that particular section was that specifically unprovoked nuclear attacks were almost certainly destined for international condemnation. I'm sure you would agree with that observation.

ICly, Steel and Fire strongly disagrees with all that, and believes nuclear weapons are there to make things interesting. We're also perfectly willing to sell nuclear weapons and the plans to make them to anyone with the cash to shell out in exchange, and consider a little destabilization to be a good thing.
Then the leadership of S&F need to seriously reevaluate their long-term goals. There is no profitability to a wasteland world. However, I am not here to criticize your nation's particular management, so that is neither here nor there.

in relation to NS, I can see numerous military uses for nuclear weapons, although most people will ignore them because they're a sort of game breaker. Yes, you can shoot them down, but when one hit can reduce your capital city to rubble it starts to get annoying when someone fires 100,000 ballistic missiles plus all those decoy things they add in to fake more radar signatures. Politically, nuclear technology is essentially a MacGuffin of greater proportions: some people greatly desire it, some think it's the devil, those who don't have it fear those who do. It's sort of like oil except on a larger, more destructive scale.
As stated earlier in this post, my particular nation's foreign policy choices make WMDs unnecessary, impractical, and potentially harmful to their goals.

your involvement will not go as far as aiding in the drafting of a Constitution
For the last time, I don't care what your damn constitution says. Other, more involved nations might. That was my whole point, in response to FSSU's complaining about international interference.

Again, you are missing my point. I wasn't attempting to challenge any given nations ability or will to manufacture such idiotically useless devices, just how useless their size makes them. These weapons are completely impractical for any sort of deployment, whether it be for deterrent or actual use. The use of one, just one, will affect the ecology of the planet enough to render any sort of benefit they give completely moot. Weapons this size are not weapons. They are suicide machines. Impossible to deliver to any sort of practical target with MT tech, utterly useless to leave them in your own country (or bury them, as some are wont to do), and thus useless for everything nuclear weapons were ever useful for.



Selling the ability to power one's nation with nuclear technology is not at all the same thing as actively pursuing the sale of nuclear weapons on the international arms market.


The international community will do exactly everything and anything it believes is necessary to secure stability. The premature possession and irresponsible sale of nuclear weapons is in direct contravention to that stability. You want you know why people want to dictate terms of the possession and sale of these devices? The very existence of such weapons is a clear and present threat to the stability of international relations.

How exactly does the detonation of a high airbursting gigatonne range "clean" Teller-Ulam device effect the enviroment significantly? The radioactive fallout will not be significantly greater than a dirty-Oralloy Thermonuclear Bomb similar to the W88 deployed on some USN Trident II Missile (Yield in the range of 475kT supposedly)
Perhaps you mean direct energy input? Well lets see,
1GT of TNT is equivalent to roughly 4.18 x 10^18 Joules, which is a lot, but let us for a moment consider the Piper Alpha disaster, during the last ninety minutes of the fire only one of the two large gas pipelines onto the station released somewhere in the region of 25 tonnes of LNG per second onto the station, which translates to rougly 135 thousand tonnes in total.
These 135 thousand tonnes can be assumed to have burned almost entirely in the immediate vicinity of the platform, which would release something on the order of 7.5 x 10^15 Joules.
This means that this bomb releases approximately 560 times as much thermal energy as that pipeline did, albiet in a vastly shorter period of time.
However, there were two pipelines emptying onto that station, so the total is somewhat greater than that, even though I cant find figures for it.
Now, the Piper Alpha disaster produced no enviromental effects whatsoever, and this shows, although the scale of the incident in question is tiny compared to the yield of the bomb, it shows that potentially massive amounts of energy release into a small area do not cause massive global changes.

The writeup of the NUR series reactors specifically states that the primary role is the production of weapons grade plutonium for incorporation into nuclear weapons :\ if anyone actually read them, they would know this, the power production is entirely secondary.

"Premature Possesion of Nuclear Weapons"? Who decides when possesion of nuclear weapons is Premature? Israeli has by all counts nuclear weapons with a population on the order of a few million, which means that by RL measures Newbies could claim nuclear weapons almost immediately, hell, I was the size of the 50s UK by the time I even found this forum.

And I will not have this discussion of the other Western Nuclear powers being given technology by the US.
The British helped the US develop the Manhatten Project and then went it entirely alone until the development of the first British Thermonuclear bomb due to the Atomic Energy Act, infact, most of your early Plutonium bombs were produced with material from either the Windscale Piles or Calder Hall.
It was the British that gave the French the hands up they needed to start there own program, and by extension started the Israeli program, who may have assisted the abortive Brazillian and South African Programs, the latter of which is known to have turned out nuclear weapons.

Then the leadership of S&F need to seriously reevaluate their long-term goals. There is no profitability to a wasteland world. However, I am not here to criticize your nation's particular management, so that is neither here nor there.

Their long term goals are something like:

1. Sell weapons to people
2. Watch people blow each other up with weapons
3. Take over the land and resources of those people
4. Profit!

with 3a being: Make sure nobody tries the same thing with us.

So, it's fairly profitable, if you happen to be us. Otherwise, not so much. :P

For the last time, I don't care what your damn constitution says. Other, more involved nations might. That was my whole point, in response to FSSU's complaining about international interference.

First of all: our 'damn Constitution' aint ready yet, hence the drafting, and i dont care what your response to ssu's complaining was, you responded to me and i responded bac.

Their long term goals are something like:

1. Sell weapons to people
2. Watch people blow each other up with weapons
3. Take over the land and resources of those people
4. Profit!

with 3a being: Make sure nobody tries the same thing with us.

So, it's fairly profitable, if you happen to be us. Otherwise, not so much. :P


i dont know who 'their' is but its not us(coalition)

OOC:
First: I am not here to have an argument with storefront owners. I don't care what you do or sell, and I was here explaining why some nations don't like it when small nations actively produce and sell nuclear weapons. That was it.

Second: Premature comes from the stickys at the top of this forum. 100M was I believe the magic number, so don't get all "you-trod-on-someone's-rights" with me.

Third: A bomb one-tenth the size of what they are talking about was detonated over northern Russia in late 1961, and the atmospheric focusing effects alone shattered windows 620 miles from the test site. The blast produced seismic effects of slightly over 5 on the Richter scale after passing through the earth twice already. This weapon, I remind you is ten times as large, and buried in the ground.

Lastly, the nuclear proliferation policies of the US and its allies are irrelevant in this discussion.

Their long term goals are something like:

1. Sell weapons to people
2. Watch people blow each other up with weapons
3. Take over the land and resources of those people
4. Profit!

with 3a being: Make sure nobody tries the same thing with us.

So, it's fairly profitable, if you happen to be us. Otherwise, not so much. :P
I hope that works out for you, I really do.

First of all: our 'damn Constitution' aint ready yet, hence the drafting, and i dont care what your response to ssu's complaining was, you responded to me and i responded bac
Internets, then?

I hope that works out for you, I really do.


Lmao.

To be fair, it's a better justification than Anagonia's, who has lots of nukes simply because he likes them. <_< Among several other people.

OOC: True dat.

OOC: Expanding on what S&F said about Nuclear Technology, it tends to be smaller, newer nations who desire nuclear weapons, whereas some larger nations feel they can forgo nukes altogether and concentrate on larger military force, which is why small nations crave nukes to defend themselves from larger nations.

And so it becomes a vicious circle.

NERV, did you get my telegram?

OOC: I was part of all this fuss for a 'Nuclear Coalition' almost went to war with several people, almost punched my computer screen in anger, but the irony is it took about 20 words to allena and I aquired 2 Tactical Nukes, so much fuss avoided

OOC: Expanding on what S&F said about Nuclear Technology, it tends to be smaller, newer nations who desire nuclear weapons, whereas some larger nations feel they can forgo nukes altogether and concentrate on larger military force, which is why small nations crave nukes to defend themselves from larger nations.

And so it becomes a vicious circle.

NERV, did you get my telegram?

OOC yes i did i have replied to it!

OOC yes i did i have replied to it!

OOC: Well, i haven't had a TG yet. I'll check again.

OOC: To the members of the coalition. I am not trying to be controlling or trying to control the coalition and take too much power, if it sounded that way then i appologise but i am only trying to be active in the discussion of formation of the coalition, thats all, if in anyway i may had been abit too carried away then i appologise.

OOC: Expanding on what S&F said about Nuclear Technology, it tends to be smaller, newer nations who desire nuclear weapons, whereas some larger nations feel they can forgo nukes altogether and concentrate on larger military force, which is why small nations crave nukes to defend themselves from larger nations.

And so it becomes a vicious circle.

NERV, did you get my telegram?

It so happens due to the fact that many large nations on here tend to be hostile towards smaller and medium size nations and large nations tend to interfere in a internal affair of another nation, or tend to be getting their noses in businesses where it's not suppose to be, and also big nations tend to threaten smaller and medium size nations of invasion and of war inorder to cave into demands which will benefit the large nation over the little nation and leaving the little nation with nothing but having all of it's juices sucked dry.

Salzland and Falkasia are the exceptions as they are actively involved in international issues and more out there in the international community for the good reasons of their nations and for the good of every other nation and to preserve world peace.

Other big nations are out there for their own secret agendas to world police and to bully and to keep shoving made up ridiculous treaties forcing other members to sign where it restricts and limits the rights and the level of another nations sovereignty.

I strongly recommend everysingle nation in the future which are small to medium size nations to possess nuclear weapons, those future nations who are planning on possessing nuclear weapons, i think there should be a level of restriction of the size small and medium nations may possess and a limit of quantities of them for the increasement of their security out in the international world and for the purposes of their national security not comming under threat.

mailto:sage

You're hardly the first. And you're hardly a threat, too. But I do like the quick nostalgia trip. Ah, Nukewealth...

There is no threat coming from my nation and no nation should even be feeling threatened by the FSSU in anyway as we are not in anyway posing a security threat or threatening any nation with nuclear arms. This whole thing has been blown out of proportion by Ustio North and his buddy nation. If half of the things that were said about my nation from the day the nuclear warheads were produced is true, my nation would have gone on a nuclear war rampage blasting nukes to every single nation that exists on this planet.

There is no threat coming from my nation and no nation should even be feeling threatened by the FSSU in anyway as we are not in anyway posing a security threat or threatening any nation with nuclear arms. This whole thing has been blown out of proportion by Ustio North and his buddy nation. If half of the things that were said about my nation from the day the nuclear warheads were produced is true, my nation would have gone on a nuclear war rampage blasting nukes to every single nation that exists on this planet.

OOC: I think it's fair to say that that would have been the eventual outcome, whichever nation it was. I simply pointed out that I didn't like the idea of a Nuclear Nursery, where little nations get together to play with their nukes.

OOC: I never bullied. I was just trying to explain why the coalition you formed might cause some concern in others, because it seemed like you weren't taking their concerns seriously and we all get along better if we know where the other guy is coming from. To be fair, it seemed like some of them didn't care where you were coming from, and that's unfair too. Like I said, I don't care what you build, as long as it doesn't come my way.

This whole thing has been blown out of proportion by Ustio North and his buddy nation.

Thanks for remembering my name, there.

And, about large nations ruling over small nations... when it comes to nukes, we're genuinely worried that this small, most likely rickety nation will randomly go and fire them all out at US, or that they are not safe.

Two, maybe it's in our imperialistic interests to do such a thing. Why would we want YOU to have nukes if we're going around and then you go trigger-happy?

If you don't end up using them, or using the nukes as a threat, then what's the point of making them? WHY ARE YOU MAKING THEM?

And, finally, bigger nations can violate smaller nations' soverignty and other such things for one reason: power. If we (meaning Ustio, me, anyone else who wanted to join in), or even just one of us, decided to attack you right now, you'd be overwhelmed, and we'd have a colony. That's why bigger nations can make smaller nations do as they wish. If you don't, we can kill you. It's that simple.

(OOC: I love the sovereignty argument. What would be the point of posting "internal" incidents on NationStates if it was just going to be dealth with internally. If you post anything on NationStates 'International Incidents' forum, expect other countries to get involved. Don't like it? Then don't post things you don't want other countries to take part in.)

It so happens due to the fact that many large nations on here tend to be hostile towards smaller and medium size nations and large nations tend to interfere in a internal affair of another nation, or tend to be getting their noses in businesses where it's not suppose to be, and also big nations tend to threaten smaller and medium size nations of invasion and of war inorder to cave into demands which will benefit the large nation over the little nation and leaving the little nation with nothing but having all of it's juices sucked dry.

OOC: Welcome to Earth buddy.

OOC: I just don't see why FSSU seems to have such a need to 'stand up in the face of the bigger nations'. It's not like everything that happens in II is just larger nations looking for smaller nations to stomp. Maybe some do, that's why they generally have a bad name, or have lots of enemies. There are plenty of defense pacts or alliances that would do more good to ensure national sovereignty than to declare a 'Nuclear Coalition'. CSS seems to be a good one, for example. And you know I'm not just plugging for them, because I'm not even in the alliance. CA, though I have a good deal of contempt for them (for reasons that should be obvious), is a very legitimate way many small nations ensure their defense. FSSU, if you really don't want to get invaded/pushed around, you don't necessarily need nukes. Powerful friends go a long way. And they aren't all that hard to get. Anyway, see this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=584091) for my idea of how to get to a possible reconciliation of the relevant viewpoints

My Nation will not be using nukes as mentioned above, my nation will join some of the Military alliance once it has reached 50+ population, untill then my nation is going to work independently in building new industries which will help the economy along the way and for more military spendings for FSSU.

My nation has decided to have Nuclear weapons and it so happens to have nuclear weapons and the leading industry in my country is uranium minning.

and with all this talk thrs still no coalition.

OOC:

Having powerful friends does help FSSU. I had at least two powerful friends when I first started (might've had more but I can't remember) and that helped me through until I became powerful nation myself. From there, I gained 3 smaller ones which looked to me as a powerful nation. Two of them I haven't seen for awhile and the third is active. I've think I still have a powerful friend but I haven't seen it around lately.

You see, having powerful friends can help you fight your battles or aid you.

OOC:

Having powerful friends does help FSSU. I had at least two powerful friends when I first started (might've had more but I can't remember) and that helped me through until I became powerful nation myself. From there, I gained 3 smaller ones which looked to me as a powerful nation. Two of them I haven't seen for awhile and the third is active. I've think I still have a powerful friend but I haven't seen it around lately.

You see, having powerful friends can help you fight your battles or aid you.

So far i manage to make friends with Salzland and Falkasia, well not exactly friends yet but have managed to get on their good side. I would like to establish a trade between the two of our nations on economic terms.

OOC: Wait...wait...wait.... Hold on a second and let me get this straight. You want the FSSU and Lynion to have a trade agreement between the two of us?

So far i manage to make friends with Salzland and Falkasia, well not exactly friends yet but have managed to get on their good side.

OOC: I wouldn't even go that far...

OOC: Wait...wait...wait.... Hold on a second and let me get this straight. You want the FSSU and Lynion to have a trade agreement between the two of us?

I would like that alot, set aside our difference, put nuclear discussions aside, we may have our disagreements when it comes to nuclear arms but thats about it, apart from that, my nation can build some relations with your nation, and build a relationship where we can have a economic trade route between the two nations, imports and exports of goods.

OOC:

*Starts laughing* Woooo... *pulls himself together* yeah...anyhow... this is going to be hard for you since Lynion has strict trade policies and refuses to deal with... how do I put it... unstable nations with nuclear weapons. Having nuclear weapons makes creating a relationship of any kind towards Lynion difficult. You can make an attempt but I can tell you right now, you'll be sent back home without even landing. If you want to establish an agreement between the two nations, scrap the nuclear weapons and you'll have a better chance.

Another point as well, if you want to establish a trade agreement, it must be of something with interest. Nuclear power/weapons don't count and niether does oil.

I'll give you a chance but everything is effected on nuclear weapons and how stable you are for economic aid. There will be no military agreements suggested at this time since Lynion has little trust in your nation. But like I said, you can make an attempt, but don't expect it to be a walk through the park.

OOC:I don't expect no military trade or what so ever, also rulling out oil trade, uranium, plutonium trade etc.. All i am looking for is economic trade goods between the countries which may include natural resources such as zinc, ion, coal, metal, alluminium, or food products, electronics and etc. Something small, nothing big or anything but something to start with, with building trust between the two nations.

My nation is actually stable with a very stable economy, my nation hasn't taken a hostile policy towards it's nation or has ever used violents when participating in, international issues and global conflicts around the world.

My nation is also not asking for any aid what so ever as our economy is already stable to sustain itself therefore any aid given to FSSU is ruled out. But i would like to see a start somewhere between the two nations and see where this is going to take us.

Nuclear program has been put on hold untill my nation reaches a sustainable population of 100+ million or perhaps if neccessary, to put it to even 250+ million before any nuclear program is to resume. However, once our nuclear program is resumed, we will only be producing smaller nuclear arms of kilotons, megatons will be produced however only nuclear weapons of 1MT, 5MT, 10MT and 20MT will be produced, 50,100,200,500 will be scrapped out and will not be in production anymore as FSSU will discontinue production of such large powerful weapons.

I would like us to start somewhere, a small trade agreement of goods and then slowly build our relations upto a stable level and gain trust and allow this trust to grow in time.

OOC: I sincerely applaud your most recent efforts. Building trust through trade relationships, etc is a great way to ensure the national security of your nation. You can expect a letter from the Office of the Volunteer Controller of the Objectivist Region of Gesford to be forthcoming within the next few days echoing this sentiment.

But why didn't you do this in the first place?

OK, its settled then, no nuclear coalition will be made, I motion this act. Considering that there is 2 people in it, and that a 3/4 vote cant be made, i vote for this to pass.

...
OK then the Yeses have it. coalition is not forming.

OOC:I don't expect no military trade or what so ever, also rulling out oil trade, uranium, plutonium trade etc.. All i am looking for is economic trade goods between the countries which may include natural resources such as zinc, ion, coal, metal, alluminium, or food products, electronics and etc. Something small, nothing big or anything but something to start with, with building trust between the two nations.

My nation is actually stable with a very stable economy, my nation hasn't taken a hostile policy towards it's nation or has ever used violents when participating in, international issues and global conflicts around the world.

My nation is also not asking for any aid what so ever as our economy is already stable to sustain itself therefore any aid given to FSSU is ruled out. But i would like to see a start somewhere between the two nations and see where this is going to take us.

Nuclear program has been put on hold untill my nation reaches a sustainable population of 100+ million or perhaps if neccessary, to put it to even 250+ million before any nuclear program is to resume. However, once our nuclear program is resumed, we will only be producing smaller nuclear arms of kilotons, megatons will be produced however only nuclear weapons of 1MT, 5MT, 10MT and 20MT will be produced, 50,100,200,500 will be scrapped out and will not be in production anymore as FSSU will discontinue production of such large powerful weapons.

I would like us to start somewhere, a small trade agreement of goods and then slowly build our relations upto a stable level and gain trust and allow this trust to grow in time.


OOC:

So all those warheads you claimed to have (Including the most seriously absurd ones hitting 1000MT and 500MT) is all non-cannon? If so then I'm royally confused as to why all the huffing and puffing in previous posts has been going on when y ou were simply going to do this- that's not to say we're not thankfull.

But let's face it, you said you had these bombs, there's no point halting your weapons programme when you've already got the bomb. You either have nuclear weapons or you don't.

OOC:I don't expect no military trade or what so ever, also rulling out oil trade, uranium, plutonium trade etc.. All i am looking for is economic trade goods between the countries which may include natural resources such as zinc, ion, coal, metal, alluminium, or food products, electronics and etc. Something small, nothing big or anything but something to start with, with building trust between the two nations.

My nation is actually stable with a very stable economy, my nation hasn't taken a hostile policy towards it's nation or has ever used violents when participating in, international issues and global conflicts around the world.

My nation is also not asking for any aid what so ever as our economy is already stable to sustain itself therefore any aid given to FSSU is ruled out. But i would like to see a start somewhere between the two nations and see where this is going to take us.

Nuclear program has been put on hold untill my nation reaches a sustainable population of 100+ million or perhaps if neccessary, to put it to even 250+ million before any nuclear program is to resume. However, once our nuclear program is resumed, we will only be producing smaller nuclear arms of kilotons, megatons will be produced however only nuclear weapons of 1MT, 5MT, 10MT and 20MT will be produced, 50,100,200,500 will be scrapped out and will not be in production anymore as FSSU will discontinue production of such large powerful weapons.

I would like us to start somewhere, a small trade agreement of goods and then slowly build our relations upto a stable level and gain trust and allow this trust to grow in time.

OOC:

It doesn't matter if you scrap the larger nuclear weapons. What matters you still have nuclear weapons and it still makes a matter with the Lynion Officals about if they'll send you anything. Like I said before, you can make an attempt but I can't promise you anything will be positive.

I'll let you make an attempt.

OOC:

So all those warheads you claimed to have (Including the most seriously absurd ones hitting 1000MT and 500MT) is all non-cannon? If so then I'm royally confused as to why all the huffing and puffing in previous posts has been going on when y ou were simply going to do this- that's not to say we're not thankfull.

But let's face it, you said you had these bombs, there's no point halting your weapons programme when you've already got the bomb. You either have nuclear weapons or you don't.

OOC: Wrong, all these nuclear warheads that have been made are all real however my nation is willing to discontinue them and not build anymore too large nuclear weapons if it is going to effect my relations with other nations in the international community.

50MT, 100MT, 200MT and 500MT nuclear warheads will not be disposed or anything but they have been stored safely in a high security underground, and no one can get access to them that is not authorised, these are definently launchable and cannable, so dont get your hopes up Stevid.

OOC: cannable? Wow, I want canned Nukes.

OOC: I sincerely applaud your most recent efforts. Building trust through trade relationships, etc is a great way to ensure the national security of your nation. You can expect a letter from the Office of the Volunteer Controller of the Objectivist Region of Gesford to be forthcoming within the next few days echoing this sentiment.

But why didn't you do this in the first place?

Wasnt done in the first place due to certain large nations who tried to throw ridiculous treaties and ultimatums for the government of my nation to sign which would give away my sovereignty to a larger nation and therefore the government of FSSU and the foreign minister took a defensive approach in the international community but now there is no such need for that now as majority in the international community have came to terms to accept that if a nation wants to possess nuclear weapons should have the rights to possess them aslong as the nation is stable and does not pose a threat to international world or the national security of another nation.

OOC: Wrong, all these nuclear warheads that have been made are all real however my nation is willing to discontinue them and not build anymore too large nuclear weapons if it is going to effect my relations with other nations in the international community.

50MT, 100MT, 200MT and 500MT nuclear warheads will not be disposed or anything but they have been stored safely in a high security underground, and no one can get access to them that is not authorised, these are definently launchable and cannable, so dont get your hopes up Stevid.

OOC: 500MT nukes? are they the size of skyscrapers? There's no way such monstrosities could be launched by even R-36s

... if a nation wants to possess nuclear weapons should have the rights to possess them aslong as the nation is stable and does not pose a threat to international world or the national security of another nation.
OOC: If they don't pose a threat to anybody, what good are they?

OOC: 500MT nukes? are they the size of skyscrapers? There's no way such monstrosities could be launched by even R-36s

Specifications of the FSSU 500MT Nuclear bombs:

Name of the Nuclear Warhead -
Weight 80 tonnes
Length 20 meters
Diameter 10 meters
Blast yield 500 megatons
Production: Discontinued

OOC: Are you or are you not going to start a thread between our two nations?

Specifications of the FSSU 500MT Nuclear bombs:

Name of the Nuclear Warhead -
Weight 80 tonnes
Length 20 meters
Diameter 10 meters
Blast yield 500 megatons
Production: Discontinued

And how do you transport them? Trains?

ooc: I will do that now in few minutes, going to write it up now.

Specifications of the FSSU 500MT Nuclear bombs:

Name of the Nuclear Warhead -
Weight 80 tonnes
Length 20 meters
Diameter 10 meters
Blast yield 500 megatons
Production: Discontinued
How in ass are you supposed to launch that thing?

Also, tsar bomba was 27 tonnes, 1/4th of the weight of your nuke; And yet it was only 1/100th of the yield of that....thing. Do I see godmodding?

ooc:Birkaine, they do not have to be launched as they can also be transfered and detonated to set them off, but as previously mentioned in my post, they will not be tested out or launched or detonated in anyway as they are sealed securely.

After my nation has reached a reasonable size, we will resume our nuclear program and produce nuclear bombs of kilotons and megaton bombs of 1,2,5,10 and 20MT. And we will create the same version of the bombs produced previously but in kiloton versions and we will be testing a 250KT bomb with the supervision of two to three large nations that will be invited.

OOC: Ah, so they're more like Trinity. Fixed stuff with no weapoization possibility whatsoever.

OOC: Think about it for a second. If someone actually dropped a bomb of that yield I recon most of the world would get pissed with them Chernobyl'ing up the place and declare imbargos if not war. I'm not too good with nukes, but I'm sure to reduce the fallout from such a bomb would be very costly, porbably even cause a depression in most nations.

OOC: Think about it for a second. If someone actually dropped a bomb of that yield I recon most of the world would get pissed with them Chernobyl'ing up the place and declare imbargos if not war. I'm not too good with nukes, but I'm sure to reduce the fallout from such a bomb would be very costly, porbably even cause a depression in most nations.

ooc: Your probably right as there are lots of neighbouring countries bordered to FSSU who wont be too pleased to find out if there is any degree of nuclear fall out, the radiation to spread to neighbouring countries. Nuclear testing will happen sometime in future but reducing the test bomb from 250KT to maybe 20 or 50KT instead of the proposed plan on testing a 250KT. If it does happen, it will happen in an isolated area with the supervision of three large nations who indeed will receive the invitation to supervise and watch the first testing of the FSSU nuclear bomb.

Fundings will be made for the decontemination of any radiation fall out from the blast, area will be isolated and lots of money will be spent on the clean up of radiation and nuclear fall out.

OOC: For the massive ammount of money you're spending on the test, you're probably better off not having nukes, don't you think? Such a mountain of cash would ruin even medium-sized countries like me.

OOC: For the massive ammount of money you're spending on that, you're probably better off not having nukes, don't you think? Such a mountain of cash would ruin even medium-sized countries like me.

It wont be done anytime soon as all nuclear programs in my nations are on hold untill we reach a reasonable amount of our population and also to wait for the economy of my nation to continue to grow and spend money on other important things such as allocating budgets to the Health care system, education, millitary, law and order, and commerce. Another allocation from our GDP will be spent on helping small and medium size industries grow.

OOC: Untill you reach 'a reasonable amount of our population' what is your intentions? Going all 'OMG N00KS' or what, because if you are abstaining from that kinda stuff now it might be best to continue abstaining from it. But it is not like you are forcibly compelled to my word. It seems kind of odd that your one goal for building up your economy and such will be nuclear weapons.

OOC: Untill you reach 'a reasonable amount of our population' what is your intentions? Going all 'OMG N00KS' or what, because if you are abstaining from that kinda stuff now it might be best to continue abstaining from it. But it is not like you are forcibly compelled to my word.

OOC: I already told you, what my nation and the government decides to do in terms of Millitary and Economics is not the business of Ulanpataar as we have no intentions in establishing any relations with your nation untill your government, your nations decides to take a non discriminative policy in the international community and towards other nations.

OOC: I already told you, what my nation and the government decides to do in terms of Millitary and Economics is not the business of Ulanpataar as we have no intentions in establishing any relations with your nation untill your government, your nations decides to take a non discriminative policy in the international community and towards other nations.

ooc: If the government of FSSU is using its money on an international level to such the exetent, then it can technically be allowed for nations to question the spending of such weapons.
Non-discriminatory policy? Of what? Race? Size? Gender? Species? If this is another large nation vs. small nation thing, then drop it already. This is why older players keep getting frustrated with newer players.

ooc: If the government of FSSU is using its money on an international level to such the exetent, then it can technically be allowed for nations to question the spending of such weapons.
Non-discriminatory policy? Of what? Race? Size? Gender? Species? If this is another large nation vs. small nation thing, then drop it already. This is why older players keep getting frustrated with newer players.

ooc: Ulanpataar has a thing of discriminating nations on all aspects who do not have the same political belief as the Ulanpataar do, which was based as one of the requirements of having an embassy in his nation, which is why his nation became very unpopuliar, and also Ulanpataar has no business when it comes to the internal affair of another nation, the spendings on Millitary, and the government budget. Ulanpataar has no place in politics of another nation and such and my nation will distant itself from Ulanpataar and in the future untill Ulanpataar foreign policy changes.

ooc: Ulanpataar has a thing of discriminating nations on all aspects who do not have the same political belief as the Ulanpataar do, which was based as one of the requirements of having an embassy in his nation, which is why his nation became very unpopuliar, and also Ulanpataar has no business when it comes to the internal affair of another nation, the spendings on Millitary, and the government budget. Ulanpataar has no place in politics of another nation and such and my nation will distant itself from Ulanpataar and in the future untill Ulanpataar foreign policy changes.

ooc: First of all, it seems that the 'nations' refer to you and your 'discrimination' involves policies with nuclear weapons/materials. And technically, this is called "International Incidents" which means that other nations get involved in threads and ask questions and RP. If you didn't want this to happen, then form an "Internal Incidents" forum (of course, that is impossible). Plus, he is asking how you would pay for this in the long run, a common sense question to answer....How? It takes hundreds of millions if not billions of USD to even develop a handful of nuclear weapons, and at the size that you are producing them, it could cost trillions of dollars. At the rate that you are making these weapons, it could eventually take over 20% of your GDP. (This percent was brought to you by NS Calculator)

Basically, a nation having nuclear weapons at your level is, on some platforms, called "godmoding" and other nations, like Ulanpataar, do not like godmoding (in fact, most don't). So don't count on his policies changing any time soon.

OOC: The FSSU does not recognise the nation of Ulanpataar as an important role in the international community, the FSSU has received the aid of 200,000,000 billion universal dollars and with that money, a big portion of the aid was spent on developing these weapons, which the nation now possess these nuclear arms in 20 quantities of 50MT, 15 quantities of 100MT, 10 quantities of 200MT and 5 quantities of 500MT. However these nuclear arms have been discontinued and they are sealed and stored securedly.

+bum+

OOC:

OOC: 500MT nukes? are they the size of skyscrapers? There's no way such monstrosities could be launched by even R-36s

It gets better than that. There was a 1000MT one on the storefront. Fantasic if you wanna blow up the moon though.

OOC: Wrong, all these nuclear warheads that have been made are all real however my nation is willing to discontinue them and not build anymore too large nuclear weapons if it is going to effect my relations with other nations in the international community.

50MT, 100MT, 200MT and 500MT nuclear warheads will not be disposed or anything but they have been stored safely in a high security underground, and no one can get access to them that is not authorised, these are definently launchable and cannable, so dont get your hopes up Stevid.

That's all I needed to know. But then all the power you have creeps me out a twinge knowing that bombs that big are around and prepared to blow. Perhaps the Holy Empire will have to show off a little bit in the near future.

OOC: The FSSU does not recognise the nation of Ulanpataar as an important role in the international community, the FSSU has received the aid of 200,000,000 billion universal dollars and with that money, a big portion of the aid was spent on developing these weapons, which the nation now possess these nuclear arms in 20 quantities of 50MT, 15 quantities of 100MT, 10 quantities of 200MT and 5 quantities of 500MT. However these nuclear arms have been discontinued and they are sealed and stored securedly.

OOC:

Actually credit to the old boy, Alleana (I think) supported him initially in developing the weapons. But 20MT would have been excesive let alone 500.

OOC:
"[...]not recognise the nation of Ulanpataar as an important role in the international community[...]"
I do not recognise myself as a major power either OOCly, but what I meant by my question is not what was your intention with the nuclear weapons once you reach your 'magic population number', but instead I wonder what you (OOCly) want to do with your nation once you reach your 'reasonable amount of our population'. Do you just want to go to a vacation when you are content with your n00ks. Also who gave you '200,000,000 billion USD'?

And
"[...]discriminating nations on all aspects who do not have the same political belief as the Ulanpataar do, which was based as one of the requirements of having an embassy in his nation, which is why his nation became very unpopuliar[...]"

Firstly take note that what you said is only an opinion of yours. I do not let only ZaKomian nations have an embassy within my nation, that'd be rather absurd regarding that there is really only me in International Incidents. And you seem to bummed out about that. Would you expect any nation to be perfectly fine and dandy to have a declared enemy hanging out in the capitol? Would you expect a essentially fascist nation to just let anyone who filled out a application form parading around in embassies? Ulanpataar mostly reserves the embassies for people that are allies or good trade partners to the state. Any nation that does not trade or has sore relations with Ulanpataar but has an embassy is mostly regarded as waste of an embassy.

Also who gave you '200,000,000 billion USD'? That is a huge amount of money, a really huge amount of money.
OOC: I think SSU is mathematically challenged and doesn't understand what a decimal place is. Any numbers that he quotes should not be taken seriously.

[OoC]I did gave him aid but not 200 000 000 bill check >>>this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14511498&postcount=10)<<< out

OOC:
"[...]the FSSU has received the aid of 200,000,000 billion universal dollars and with that money, a big portion of the aid was spent on developing these weapons[...]"

[...]Federation of Cukarica donates 200 billion dollars of "economic help" [...]"

So much for economic help.

Also what is with your 100MT bomb only being 5 tonnes heavier than your 50MT bomb? Also the weight of your 1,000MT bomb is the weight of 3 100MT bombs plus ten extra tones, if you reach your magic number you really need to clean up all the stuff like that. Especially considering that all of them are rather ludicrous sizes.

OOC: So much for economic help.

ooc

Exactly.

OOC: Deploying a 1000MT bomb would be pretty much impossible except (maybe) over railroad or ultra-heavy transport ships, and that would be like trying to beat somebody to death with a 105mm shell instead of properly firing it.

OOC: 1 gigaton? Are you insane?

OOC: Deploying a 1000MT bomb would be pretty much impossible except (maybe) over railroad or ultra-heavy transport ships, and that would be like trying to beat somebody to death with a 105mm shell instead of properly firing it.

OOC: I'm I missing the point to any of this. Nukes the size of 100MT should only be discussed in the seriously hypothetical sense because there is no need for them. No need for them at all let along 500MT or 1GT. What's the point?

This is the thing I'm trying to get across to FSSU. We're not any more scared of you because you've got ''giant dick'' nukes because all nukes are destructive any way. Also you'd be galactically stupid to think it makes you safer because in order to launch a 500MT warhead would require a huge rocket that could esaily be detected launching even by seismograpghs let alone missile tracking stations both on the ground and in orbit above the Earth. Bare that in mind it also makes it the easiest nuke to shoot down in the history of the world because it is so big. It can't be modified to be a MIRV missile... full stop can't.
A MIRV missile can carry a number of warheads- Let's say for example eight. Right, EIGHT 500MT warheads on ONE missile!!!??!?! The missile would be bibically large, the size of a cathedral or something! So that would limit you, FSSU, to a single missile. Easy to shoot down.

Nukes are strategic weapons. You're nukes are so large that your nation the least strategically capable nuclear force I've seen in MANY years. I've been on this game for a long, long time now (Sad I know) so take some much needed advice. Smaller nukes = Better chance of "winning" nuclear wars. MIRVS are thus more effective and capable with smaller nukes and they are just as devestating as big nukes. They are also easier to maintain.

Ditch the big things. There's just no point at all FSSU.

OOC: FSSU labors under two assumptions:

That larger nations are always out to get/bully/coopt smaller nations(FSSU and the like)

That 100MT or larger nuclear weapons are even effective military tools. No delivery system would make this weapon anywhere near practical enough to justify the cost in building them.

FSSU, I'm talking to you. you know why you can't use 500MT nukes? Because your enemies won't be simply a train ride away. Why did you build these? Again, bear in mind that when you answer the question, there is no sufficient military, political, or foreign policy reason, so find something else.

OOC: I'm I missing the point to any of this. Nukes the size of 100MT should only be discussed in the seriously hypothetical sense because there is no need for them. No need for them at all let along 500MT or 1GT. What's the point?

This is the thing I'm trying to get across to FSSU. We're not any more scared of you because you've got ''giant dick'' nukes because all nukes are destructive any way. Also you'd be galactically stupid to think it makes you safer because in order to launch a 500MT warhead would require a huge rocket that could esaily be detected launching even by seismograpghs let alone missile tracking stations both on the ground and in orbit above the Earth. Bare that in mind it also makes it the easiest nuke to shoot down in the history of the world because it is so big. It can't be modified to be a MIRV missile... full stop can't.
A MIRV missile can carry a number of warheads- Let's say for example eight. Right, EIGHT 500MT warheads on ONE missile!!!??!?! The missile would be bibically large, the size of a cathedral or something! So that would limit you, FSSU, to a single missile. Easy to shoot down.

Nukes are strategic weapons. You're nukes are so large that your nation the least strategically capable nuclear force I've seen in MANY years. I've been on this game for a long, long time now (Sad I know) so take some much needed advice. Smaller nukes = Better chance of "winning" nuclear wars. MIRVS are thus more effective and capable with smaller nukes and they are just as devestating as big nukes. They are also easier to maintain.

Ditch the big things. There's just no point at all FSSU.

OOC: I will take your advice and will only be building smaller nuclear weapons from now on. We already discontinued our 100MT, 200MT and 500MT weapons. 1GT is far too big and time consumming and if ever launched, the whole earth would be ripped apart and the cost is enormous and deadly. The 100MT, 200MT and 500MT have been sealed underground securely and to never see the light never.

Once the population of my nation reaches 100+, we will plan on only building Kiloton weapons and Megatons upto 20MT, anything bigger then 20MT is too large.

OOC: Why did you have to bump this? Just let it die.

OOC: Why did you have to bump this? Just let it die.

OOC: It's a very important topic to be discussed and it will not die due to the fact that nuclear arms are becomming more commonly produced now days than there were before.

*bump*

In actual fact, Stevid is wrong.

A 1000-megaton nuke could be built.

Assuming a ratio of 5 megatons per tons of bomb (the RL maximum achieved ratio is 5.2, and in theory it is possible to get to 6 megatons/tons), a 1000-megaton nuclear bomb could be delivered via B-22 Zeus aircraft or other similar NS bombers.

OOC: However my nation will not be producing a 1000 megaton nuclear bomb as it will get lots of international attention and comdemnation, therefore we only plan to build nuclear bombs at largest being 20MT. Maybe in a far distant future, my nation will be producing larger nuclear arms but for now, they will only be kiloton bombs and MT bombs at largest as 20MT.

In actual fact, Stevid is wrong.

A 1000-megaton nuke could be built.

Assuming a ratio of 5 megatons per tons of bomb (the RL maximum achieved ratio is 5.2, and in theory it is possible to get to 6 megatons/tons), a 1000-megaton nuclear bomb could be delivered via B-22 Zeus aircraft or other similar NS bombers.

But what's the point of all that power? Also I never said it couldn't be built, I'm stressing no one should build it because it is a supreme waste of resources. Also you miss me completely, FSSU was selling a 1000MT warhead. A single warhead with an explosive yeild of of 1000MT. My argument was the apart from the fact that is bibically large it is exceptionally difficult to deploy.
But everyone seems to be missing my main question: What is the point of having bombs in sizes between 100MT-1000MT when nukes no bigger than 5MT acheive the same desired results at a lower manufactoring cost and delivering system cost?

Just so happens nuclear warfare is a favourite subject of mine :-D

OOC:The only reason RL nuclear weapons even approached 50MT is because guidance systems couldn't be relied upon to deliver the weapon to the center of a city. Thus the bomb had to level everything. With ICBMs and even half-decent bomb guidance systems today, the attacker could be relatively sure of a hit somewhere near city center. Thus the larger weapons (25MT or larger) are useless.

OOC:The only reason RL nuclear weapons even approached 50MT is because guidance systems couldn't be relied upon to deliver the weapon to the center of a city. Thus the bomb had to level everything. With ICBMs and even half-decent bomb guidance systems today, the attacker could be relatively sure of a hit somewhere near city center. Thus the larger weapons (25MT or larger) are useless.

OOC: Not if you really hate the enemy. :D

Although, you're right. VT has a stock of about 10 bombs that are around 60 MT, only for use in a 'scorched earth' spite attack to stop invaders claiming Lonun, and even then only in the face of a nation 10 times bigger than it. Otherwise, it'd be a bit ridiculous.

OOC: Agreed. I can imagine that literally flattening enemies would be rather satisfying, especially if they had done me some wrong. Megalomaniacs as well will obviously be more attracted to the larger bangs.

OOC: Consider also propaganda, fear, and hardened installations.

*bump*

OOC: For the sake of <insert religous diety here> let this thread die! It will never happen! 2 Countries have already suffered invasions which stemmed from this thread! You are the only one persuing this! So please do us all a favor and STOP bumping it!

Special Announcement

The Federation of Serbian Soviet Union officially withdraws from the Nuclear Proliferation Coalition.

We can provide the Uranium for your weapons. I mean yes we have the world's largest active nuclear stockpile, but we can offer as much Uranium as you need.

We can provide the Uranium for your weapons. I mean yes we have the world's largest active nuclear stockpile, but we can offer as much Uranium as you need.

http://nstracker.jfsoftware.com/index.php?nation=The+New+Soivet+Union

Defense: руЯ0.00 0%

OOC:0_0
Why is it I always miss out on threads like this?
IC:
I will caution you (SSU) Back down from this alliance and allow it to die!
I've been reading the official report on it and after the 14th page (so excuse me if ive missed something big) got so outraged and frankly appaled at your actions that I feel compeled to say this. Read carefully, it shall be said only once!

Stop your nukelear armament, stop your rapid build up of 'defensive' militery forces that could be used in an offensive action and, lastly of all, allow the coalition to end!
You have perverted its cause and have subverted its leadership and are not fit to co-operate with any nation, least of all our own!

This is a final warning, seeing how there have already been several threghts of war that, to our knowledge, have not been fulfilled.

Stop or we will destroy, not just your people, not just your legacy, but the very eco system of your nation, that your filth may never infest that land again!

You have been warned!

OOC:0_0
Why is it I always miss out on threads like this?
IC:
I will caution you (SSU) Back down from this alliance and allow it to die!
I've been reading the official report on it and after the 14th page (so excuse me if ive missed something big) got so outraged and frankly appaled at your actions that I feel compeled to say this. Read carefully, it shall be said only once!

Stop your nukelear armament, stop your rapid build up of 'defensive' militery forces that could be used in an offensive action and, lastly of all, allow the coalition to end!
You have perverted its cause and have subverted its leadership and are not fit to co-operate with any nation, least of all our own!

This is a final warning, seeing how there have already been several threghts of war that, to our knowledge, have not been fulfilled.

Stop or we will destroy, not just your people, not just your legacy, but the very eco system of your nation, that your filth may never infest that land again!

You have been warned!

[OOC]Sadly,i must inform you that you are too late most of the "coalition" members were either invaded or ceased their activity.They tried to make the coalition but they got disciplined(xD).

Orly? thanks. *mutter* fo spoilen my fun

Anyway, if he restarts it... I'll be watching *menacing face*

ooc: ya, wolf hold and DI got invaded together. I helped :)

OOC: I pulled out of this way before I got invaded, I was invaded for two reasons
1) Detonating a nuclear reactor and killing off a load of Battlehawks (Four Heatons)brothers navy
2)Attacking a Battlehawk airbase

My invasion had nothing what so ever to do with the Nuclear Coaliton, so I would prefer if you didn't besmerch my nations reputation with an early misguided but corrected mistake.

OOC:0_0
Why is it I always miss out on threads like this?
IC:
I will caution you (SSU) Back down from this alliance and allow it to die!
I've been reading the official report on it and after the 14th page (so excuse me if ive missed something big) got so outraged and frankly appaled at your actions that I feel compeled to say this. Read carefully, it shall be said only once!

Stop your nukelear armament, stop your rapid build up of 'defensive' militery forces that could be used in an offensive action and, lastly of all, allow the coalition to end!
You have perverted its cause and have subverted its leadership and are not fit to co-operate with any nation, least of all our own!

This is a final warning, seeing how there have already been several threghts of war that, to our knowledge, have not been fulfilled.

Stop or we will destroy, not just your people, not just your legacy, but the very eco system of your nation, that your filth may never infest that land again!

You have been warned!

It is not your say to tell me what i can build and what not to build in my nation, and also my nation as plenty of times have stated in the past, it is not influenced by bigger nations and will not allow bigger nations to world police, which means my nation falling into the category of being world policed, this is an act of hostility and it will not be tollerated, the nuclear coalition has been disbanded however, my nuclear program has been put on hold for an additional of two months real time, after the two months period, a final decision will be made weather to restart the nuclear program or to fully disbandan the project, in the mean time, my nation will be concentrating on economy, trade, building up it's millitary and such.

If such an act of war has been declared in my nation, my nation will seek full international intervention from all nations, i am also represented as another nation known as Nova_Srbija with a population of 600,000,000.

Therefore please withdraw from this discussion as your nation was not involved here from the beginning and no ultimatum or threats will be made against my nation.

My nation has so far proven to be a friendly nation, a stable nation and has completely withdrawn from producing nuclear weapons, my nation will continue to build up it's millitary as no nation can tell the other nation how much the millitary of this nation can be build up, we will not be producing nuclear weapons, biological weapons and chemical weapons for a very long time, if so, Salzland and Falkasia will be informed about it first, once the population of my nation reaches 500,000,000 million, we will then consider producing these weapons of such. Untill then, Nuclear, Chemical and Biological weapons wont be on my nations agenda for a very long time.

Federation of Serbian Soviet Union has officially withdrawn from this project.

We can provide the Uranium for your weapons. I mean yes we have the world's largest active nuclear stockpile, but we can offer as much Uranium as you need.

*cough* *cough*, *hysterical laughter* head shot...

*cough* *cough*, *hysterical laughter* head shot...

Learn to read the difference between New Soviet union and Serbian Soviet Union.

OOC: 101 knows the difference. I believe he's just threatening NSU.

OOC: 101 knows the difference. I believe he's just threatening NSU.

OOC: Thats what i thought untill he told me in another thread that i contradicted myself and posted a link to what NSU wrote.

It is not your say to tell me what i can build and what not to build in my nation, and also my nation as plenty of times have stated in the past, it is not influenced by bigger nations and will not allow bigger nations to world police, which means my nation falling into the category of being world policed, this is an act of hostility and it will not be tollerated [QUOTE\]
Thats exactly the point. I like to keep an eye on upstart nations like yours, espesialy when they have, at one time or another, tried to produce nukes that are too big for thier missiles to even launch.
[QUOTE]the nuclear coalition has been disbanded however
I'm fully aware of that the coalition fell apart, in no small part due to your medling.
my nuclear program has been put on hold for an additional of two months real time, after the two months period, a final decision will be made weather to restart the nuclear program or to fully disbandan the project fair enough, but be warned if your country tries do do anything that could possably linked to the production of nukes or other WMDs we will not hesitate in declairing a state of war. We deem your country, or at least its leadership, to be incapable of handeling weapons of such destructive power sensably.

If such an act of war has been declared in my nation, my nation will seek full international intervention from all nationsUnderstandable, but I doubt other nations will care greatly if I do whipe out a tiny upstart such as yourself.
i am also represented as another nation known as Nova_Srbija with a population of 600,000,000. On an OOC note here, I seriously hope you don't mean you have 2 acounts and will use both against me. Heres why. 1) That would be GMing and blive I made a mistake that implied I would do that once, it wasn't nice.
2) Even with both populations combined I still dwarf both militerys in numbers and probably technology.

Therefore please withdraw from this discussion as your nation was not involved here from the beginning and no ultimatum or threats will be made against my nation. Neither were half the people who told you to stop last time, is that why you never listened to them? As for threght or ultimatums, that is for other nations to decide what they do, not you. Short of declairing war there is nothing you can do exept ask the WA or 'World courts' to help. We answer to neither.

My nation has so far proven to be a friendly nation Apart from trying to take over a defensive nukelear coalition? Apart from the threght you issued just now?
a stable nation and has
completely withdrawn from producing nuclear weapons, From your own mouth, for the time being.

my nation will continue to build up it's millitary as no nation can tell the other nation how much the millitary of this nation can be build up,
? If you mean my ultimatum/ terms for militery production then I have sevral cases to refere you to, most recently the 2nd Gulf war. We have no problem with you building up militery forces, but we strongly 'advise' you to stick to defencive forces first and foremost.

we will not be producing nuclear weapons, biological weapons and chemical weapons for a very long time, if so, Salzland and Falkasia will be informed about it first, once the population of my nation reaches 500,000,000 million, we will then consider producing these weapons of such. Untill then, Nuclear, Chemical and Biological weapons wont be on my nations agenda for a very long time.
Gald to hear it. I assume the 2 nations mentioned reached some sort of agreement with you, as I say the full report was too boring to read.

I'm fully aware of that the coalition fell apart, in no small part due to your medling.

The coalition did not fall apart as the coalition was never formed, there were negotiations going on how the coalition will be formed and from what values, since two nations have been in a ongoing constant war with other nations, the two withdrawn from the coalition due to their internal problems and also a influencial factor from the international community which got the two nations to cave in, to withdraw from talks in forming the coalition, the third nation withdrawn due to disagreements on how the coalition would be formed and under what treaty, my nation has withdrawn from it because an agreement forming the coalition was not founded and therefore disbanded.

fair enough, but be warned if your country tries do do anything that could possably linked to the production of nukes or other WMDs we will not hesitate in declairing a state of war. We deem your country, or at least its leadership, to be incapable of handeling weapons of such destructive power sensably.

That is only your opinion. My country is capable of possessing nuclear weapons and it will continue to do so and will so in the future once my nation reaches the population on 250+ million, within those two months, if needed, we will extend the period upto 4 months, or extending the limit of 500+ million population, before reproducing nuclear weapons, however, an agreement between my nation and United Earthling is that my nuclear warheads have been packed and chipped to the United Earthling for fully dismantling them and converting them for civilian use.

Understandable, but I doubt other nations will care greatly if I do whipe out a tiny upstart such as yourself.

It would be declared as an act of genocide and ethnic cleansing and therefore it would involve the rest of the international and the world community into this and my nation will seek all legal means and millitary means if your nation was to declare a war on my nation and threaten to commit genocide against the people of the Federation of Serbian Soviet Union.

On an OOC note here, I seriously hope you don't mean you have 2 acounts and will use both against me. Heres why. 1) That would be GMing and blive I made a mistake that implied I would do that once, it wasn't nice.
2) Even with both populations combined I still dwarf both militerys in numbers and probably technology.

On what your doing is an act of hostility, to world police and also godminding hence threatening to commit genocide and wipe out all 62 million people in my nation. My nation will not cave into your demands or to your ultimatums and we will not give up any of our sovereignty rights to your nation or to become a puppet state of yours.

Neither were half the people who told you to stop last time, is that why you never listened to them? As for threght or ultimatums, that is for other nations to decide what they do, not you. Short of declairing war there is nothing you can do exept ask the WA or 'World courts' to help. We answer to neither.

These are the same people who withdrawn their ultimatiums and threat due to international condemnation and a threat of aggression being committed against another sovereign nation.

Apart from trying to take over a defensive nukelear coalition? Apart from the threght you issued just now?
a stable nation and has

My nation has never took over this coalition as this coalition was founded by four members including my nation, however the coalition was never formed due to the withdrawel of the four founding nations.

From your own mouth, for the time being.

This is only your opinion.

If you mean my ultimatum/ terms for militery production then I have sevral cases to refere you to, most recently the 2nd Gulf war. We have no problem with you building up militery forces, but we strongly 'advise' you to stick to defencive forces first and foremost.

Every nation has the rights to build up it's millitary force and will do as such as it is the rights of everysingle sovereign nation.

Gald to hear it. I assume the 2 nations mentioned reached some sort of agreement with you, as I say the full report was too boring to read.

It is inevitable as sooner or later my nation will build these weapons, however it will not happen anytime soon, perhaps after when my nation reaches either 500 million in population or one billion, your nation cannot dictate terms, threaten another nation and be hostile towards another nation and trying to force a puppet state, to world police and to use other nations as your play toys. It will not happen.

However, sooner or later, if my nation does decide to continue on with the project, it will do so once the population either reaches upto 500 million or to one billion, untill then, my nation will concentrate on it's economy, building up it's millitary, it's armed forces, airforce, naval force, ground troops etc.. And also to build and establish diplomatic and good relations with many nations in the international community.

ooc: *Sigh* firstly OOC mean out of charicter, you've been told this several times before. Your charicter/ nation/ whatever can't here OOC comments!

Secondly, Genocide is usualy the act of killing a race people. It is not I who would do the killing, but the creature I encourage (As you've said, only a fool would reveal too much about his militery plans)

3rdly you seem to misunderstand what god modding means. God modding is the act of doing something thats un-preventable or just plain ridiculous, for example a man being hit by a nuke and living. In this case controling 2 nations, increasing your power expinentialy and overall being quite unfair.

IC: I care not who you threghten me with, nor how long you plan to wait before you develpoe WMDs. You seem to have contradicted your self again by saying you WILL build nukes when you have already said you MAY decide to.

It matters not. We do not wish to have YOU as a puppet, hence why we have theghtened to use such extream measures. Your nation is an anoyance to the world and we would consider it a favour to the world to destroy it. You talk of nations caving under preashureonce they threghten you, HA! It has not stoped us before and will not this time.

You have a final chance. When you do deside do build nukes or not remember this. We will be watching.

Secondly, Genocide is usualy the act of killing a race people. It is not I who would do the killing, but the creature I encourage (As you've said, only a fool would reveal too much about his militery plans)

OOC: What you, your nation plans to do is GENOCIDE. Threatening to destroy a whole nation of over 60 million people, total destruction, that is genocide and also violating the international laws, violating the genocide convention and violating the WA charter.

3rdly you seem to misunderstand what god modding means. God modding is the act of doing something thats un-preventable or just plain ridiculous, for example a man being hit by a nuke and living. In this case controling 2 nations, increasing your power expinentialy and overall being quite unfair.

OOC: Something that your trying to do is to world police, how many nations in the past have turned your nation down for it??

IC: I care not who you threghten me with, nor how long you plan to wait before you develpoe WMDs. You seem to have contradicted your self again by saying you WILL build nukes when you have already said you MAY decide to.

OOC: At the moment, my nation will not be building nukes untill it reaches a substantial population of 500 million, if my nation decides to build nukes after reaching 500, it will start building nukes, untill then, the nuclear program is being delayed for an additional of two months in real earth days.

It matters not. We do not wish to have YOU as a puppet, hence why we have theghtened to use such extream measures. Your nation is an anoyance to the world and we would consider it a favour to the world to destroy it. You talk of nations caving under preashureonce they threghten you, HA! It has not stoped us before and will not this time.

Now that is godmodding, you threatening my nation like that, i kinda figured it out that it hasn't stopped you before but i also figured out that the ignore cannon has been fired many times to your nation hence putting your nation on ignore list, and preventing any damage happening to another nation.

OOC: um... what? You just don't understand what god modding even is, so don't accuse people of it untill you do! You're now also flaming, all be it mildly.

I don't seem to be able to outline exactly what I plan to do to you because I don't want to reveal my plans. Baisicly what I plan to do is some micro-biological alterations to native ecosystems. I don't count that as genocide. Im not even going to do it in your nation if it makes you feel any better. I am not going to directly attack your naton but rest assured I will not intervene when the 'weapon' is active.

OOC: um... what? You jsut don't understand what god modding even is, so deon't accuse people of it untill you do! Youre now also flaming now, all be it mildly.

Look, let me put things in perspective. I've declaired wars for less than a nation planing to develope nukes.

I don't seem to be able to outline exactly what I plan to do to you because I don't want to reveal my plans. Baisicly what I plan to do is some micro-biological alterations to native microbes.

OOC: Whatever it is your planning is godmodding, and if it is something what your going to do, the ignore cannon will be fired, opening the blackwhole sucking your nation inside the blackwhole out of existence, if i fire the ignore cannon, your nation will siege to exist and anything you plan to do will not be recognised as such and only ignored as i will not be rp'ing with you due to your hostility, being a control freak, hungry for power and trying to establish puppet regimes and using smaller nations as your play thing because your nation has a population of 4,1 billion.

oh snap.
See I warned you about flaming AND godmodding. What you just said is flaming and threghtening to godmod. Also as you can probably tell I've dited my post.

Another note about godmodding is that it's usualy impossable. like my earlyer example. My attack would be quite possable.
You saying "HAHAHAHA, YOU ATTACK IS NOT HAPPENING, LALALA" would not mean you survive, it would just mean you die faster. Realisticly at least. Infact that would be god modding.

OOC: Very well children. School tyme.
OOC = An Out of Character Comment. What this basically means is that the people who run the nations in real life, for example, me, is saying something to someone else directly, rather than a nation saying something to a nation, for example. You have been told this more than once.

The World Assembly has no power in International Incidents. It exists in gameplay on Nationstates.net only. Plus, not all nations are in the WA and are therefore not bound by WA regulations, even if they were enforced in II. Again, you have been told this many times.

Godmoding is not saying that he might declare war on you. Godmoding is simply controlling something you aren't meant to, or RP'ing unfairly. For example, your tanks get hit by a thermobaric warhead and take no damage, or you say that someone else's character suddenly dies.

Finally ,he said that he doesn't RP with his puppets, not that he does.

Also, calling someone a control freak isn't very polite. Not quite flaming, I think, but still not polite, in OOC anyway.

You saying "HAHAHAHA, YOU ATTACK IS NOT HAPPENING, LALALA" would not mean you survive, it would just mean you die faster. Realisticly at least. Infact that would be god modding.
Nope, that'd be the ignore cannon, which is a time honored tradition against n00k spam or 10-on-one dogpiles for no reason. And this is II, it's not realistic.

A final edit, would it please be possible to get a mod lock on this thread? It's lived out its exitence and seems to be Hindenburging.

oh snap.
See I warned you about flaming AND godmodding. What you just said is flaming and threghtening to godmod. Also as you can probably tell I've dited my post.

Another note about godmodding is that it's usualy impossable. like my earlyer example. My attack would be quite possable.
You saying "HAHAHAHA, YOU ATTACK IS NOT HAPPENING, LALALA" would not mean you survive, it would just mean you die faster. Realisticly at least. Infact that would be god modding.

OOC: No it basically means that your a troll and feeding a troll only helps it to grow and encourages it's to troll even more. I do not take threats very lightly and do not take threats with open arms under any circumstances, either your nation stops being hostile, giving out ultimatums and threatening other nations of invading them, declaring war, wipping out an entire population and threatening total destruction of other nations and using your population of 4,1 billion as a justification will not be tollerated.

There is an ignore list, i can add your nation to ignore list to not receive any telegrams from your nation and to also add your nation on ignore on my forum account settings, will do so without any hessitation if you continue to threaten my nation ever again with total destruction.

Rest assured is that my nation will not be building nukes for a very long time to come, now get over yourself and let this thread rest in peace.

Oh for the Love of ,will you just leave this dam thread to die

VT and Ih8uwannakillu you just talking to a wall here

OOC: Very well children. School tyme.
OOC = An Out of Character Comment. What this basically means is that the people who run the nations in real life, for example, me, is saying something to someone else directly, rather than a nation saying something to a nation, for example.

The World Assembly has no power in International Incidents. It exists in gameplay on Nationstates.net only. Plus, not all nations are in the WA and are therefore not bound by WA regulations, even if they were enforced in II.

Godmoding is not saying that he might declare war on you. Godmoding is simply controlling something you aren't meant to, or RP'ing unfairly. For example, your tanks get hit by a thermobaric warhead and take no damage, or you say that someone else's character suddenly dies.

Finally ,he said that he doesn't RP with his puppets, not that he does.

Also, calling someone a control freak isn't very polite. Not quite flaming, I think, but still not polite, in OOC anyway.

OOC: I understand, i get really frustrated when someone is threatening, i don't like threats and get highly offended by it, especially when he threatened the total destruction of my nation. Even when i rest assured i will not be building nukes, however i did state to him that he has no authority over my nation, if my nation wishes to build nukes, it will build them without hessitation, but it will not build nukes as nukes are unneccessarily not needed as there are better weapons which are effective as a nuclear warhead, except it is not a weapon of mass destruction, or a nuke, and that there is no radiation fallout as such.

If i offended anyone else by my remarks, i strongly appologise.

Yes, just let this thing die. FSSU has agreed to stop building the nukes and flaming a flame just causes more flames, so just stop posting and if a mod is reading this, lock this. That'll stop it real good.

this thread should be deleted if possible so i dont have to read over it ever again as reading Ih8uwannakillu gets my blood presure boiling over the roof.

y'know what I don't even care anymore. Im with Void and Isa, I'm talking to a wall here, MOD, LOCK TEH THREDS PLOX?

y'know what I don't even care anymore. Im with Void and Isa, I'm talking to a wall here, MOD, LOCK TEH THREDS PLOX?

*ignore cannon has been fired, sucking Ih8uwannakillu into the blackwhole out of existence, all of Ih8uwannakillu past history, present history and future history sucked into the whole, as far as FSSU is conserned, Ih8uwannakillu never existed in the first place, it does not exist and it will not exist in the future*

welcome to the ignore list Ih8uwannakillu

why thahnk you for the pointless gesture. let us hope i never have to test your ignore cannon XP

OOC: Thats what i thought untill he told me in another thread that i contradicted myself and posted a link to what NSU wrote.

I was just laughing at the noobinshness of the post, I didn't read who wrote it, I thought it was you sorry.

OOC: Wow. Reading the last two pages was like watching a kindergarten debate. Offensive to each other and to the English language in general.

OOC: Wow. Reading the last two pages was like watching a kindergarten debate. Offensive to each other and to the English language in general.
OOC: Must be radiation poisoning.

I was just laughing at the noobinshness of the post, I didn't read who wrote it, I thought it was you sorry.

OOC: Appology accepted. It's cool.

PS: Anyone who ever comes across Ih8uwannakillu the way i did, the best solution to do is to fire the ignore cannon if this nation/person threatens your nation the way he threatened my nation with total destruction if i didn't allow my nation to be a puppet state of his. His justification for bullyness is that hes population is 4.1 billion.

right.... given how he's still bitchin about me, i'm gonna jus go ahead an tell the mods, this is getting ridiculous. He's now inciting 'hatred', or atleast trying to.

I'd also like to point out that I don't threghten people without a threght to my security being posed. A nation such as FSSU is like that...