NationStates Jolt Archive

All players will claim a city state in Greece (if you're not into greeks, no fear, read below) but, they must be invented by yourself, not RL ones. All tech is the same as it would have been in 400 B.C. Greece and the Persian Empire. Since we have no populations stats to go with, the "Mods" in this game will base themselves on your political and ethnic (asian, greek or barbarian) to determine one. Those are the basic details of Greece itself, below are some other claiming options.

For those of you who don't want to be a Greek city-state, you have two choices, RPing an empire similar to the Persian Empire at its height or any of the barbarian tribes inhabiting the northern lands (the Macedonians count as Greeks, even though they are not in Greece itself).

Each type of political stance (Kingdoms, Republics, Empires led by God-Emperors) as well as the race chosen have an impact on population, technology and military prowess. Thus, Greek cities will have the best heavy infantry, decent navies but the lowest populations, the Barbarians will be able to field very good cavalry, albeit they will lack the discipline and training of the other two factions and the Asian cities will have the largest economies, populations and navies, although their land armies will be a little under average when compared to the other two.

FACTBOOKS: Every player will be required to make one, no debating this. Once I approve it, you can begin RPing. If you take too long or show no sign of having worked on it, I reserve the right to boot you.

HISTORY: Our history is completely up to you. Before a player can begin playing, they must write a history of their nation. If a player writes in their history that there was a massive flood a few years ago, everyone must go by that. However, players cannot say "there was a massive flood, but it only affected my neighboring countries, not me." Also, no changing the RP too dramatically by saying things like "there was a huge war that we're all getting over" or "there was a big famine/plague a few years back." That makes the game into something completely different.

As always, if you have any doubt, just ask me.

Based on Antigonal's rules for E1492, kudos to him for one of the best RP's I've been in.

MAP:



Attention: Cities in the yellow area Greek, cities in the red are Asian and cities in the orange area are barbarian (except for Macedonia).

The circles around the city represent spheres of influence and they will grow as time passes.

PLAYERS:

TWSP - [URL="http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=565965"]The Anathonian Res Publica (]http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/808/mapyoac3.png[/URL) (Black)
Cazelia - The Cazatanian Res Publica (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566149) (Yellow)
Third Spanish States - Chiefdom of Odinochnia (http://forums3.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566189) (Dark Green)
Stoklomolvi - Imperium Stoklomolvium (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566039) (Dark Red)
Brydog - Kingdom of Wolfenhalle (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566042) (Brown)
Belschaft - The Theocracy of Ahura Mazdan (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566105) (Blue)
Greal - Kingdom of Hellen (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566069) (Purple)
Naasha - Kingdom of Korotos (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566125) (Pink)
DaWoad - The Realm of Celtica (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14015662) (Red)
Ravea - The Federation of El-Mara (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566213) (Light Green)
Uiri - Mithinmapolis (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566208) (Light Blue)
Santheres - Kingdom of Cadmeia (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566212) (Orange)
Thrashia - Samaten Empire (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14018828) (Odd Blue)
Ralkovia - The Island Power of Ralakon (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566217) (Odd Red)
Future-Rome - The Polis of Kynokephalai (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14024307) (Odd Yellow)
Gataway - Kingdom of Tharo (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14023546) (Light Pink)
Aperture Science - The Kingdom of Petbe (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566781) (Lighter Green)
Future-Rome - The Polis of Kynokephalai (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14024420)
The Indonesian states - The Dictatorship of Delos (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566797)
Visayan Peoples - The City-State of Kallipolis (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14043746)
Corbournne - ??? (Darker Green)

List of Current Active Threads:

Diplomacy Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566204)
Power in the East (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566352)
Diplomatic Ties (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566454)
Aegean Sea Trading Alliance (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566342)


YOU CAN START PLAYING AS SOON AS YOUR FACTBOOK IS READY AND APPROVED

Didn't know Albania existed in 400 B.C...

Also, is this off-site?

Didn't know Albania existed in 400 B.C...

Also, is this off-site?

No, it's not off-site, and Albania does not exist, that's the only good "blank" map of the area I could find, the modern borders depicted in it do not count here.

According to the rules, then, this would be in violation. All RPs must be related to NS in some way.

I hope you won't go tell them then.

According to the rules, then, this would be in violation. All RPs must be related to NS in some way.

If we have to create new puppets in Past Tech for this because of a purely normative reason, so be it. And the fact that it involves writing factbooks perhaps is a good hint.

Plus, we could have them as past tech nations deeply related to our NS stories and make the links, and I can extend my Factbook further to the past to justify it, coupled with cultural differences from the main RL equivalent of it. Period.

I'll be writing a factbook later of my Barbarian PT NS. At the moment I'm a bit uninspired.

If we have to create new puppets in Past Tech for this because of a purely normative reason, so be it. And the fact that it involves writing factbooks perhaps is a good hint.

Plus, we could have them as past tech nations deeply related to our NS stories and make the links, and I can extend my Factbook further to the past to justify it, coupled with cultural differences from the main RL equivalent of it. Period.

I'll be writing a factbook later of my Barbarian PT NS. At the moment I'm a bit uninspired.

Sure, no need to create a puppet for PT, but that's up to you really.

Oh, also, where on the map would you like to be located?

Preferably northwest corner of the map, if available. If not, then next to the cliffs of Gallipoli

Preferably northwest corner of the map, if available. If not, then next to the cliffs of Gallipoli

Gotcha.

I feel sad. I want to join, but I cannot have 100% commitment. May I join, knowing that my overall NS activity is slowly going to decrease as time goes on?

If you really want to join, but you know you are not going to be able to post much, please try not to place your city in a very important or critical spot (like the tiny land bridge that connects me to the main landmass).

I'm going to post when need be, but it's not like I'll be stretching myself across the world like the USA. I was thinking that either Corinth or Argos would be good places, since I like both places.

Let me know when you have decided on a location and name for your city =P

Right then.

Imperium Stoklomolvium, Dark Red, Argos, please.

Okay, I'll add you when I get back home later today.

However, will have overlapping spheres of influence D:<

WAR

Are we allowed to be Asian?

Hello TWSP, long time no see! Guess who has been using a similar map of Greece for their entire stay at NS?

If possible, I would love to set up a Greek seafaring nation on Crete, preferably on the northern coast. The city name would be Korotos.

Are we allowed to be Asian?

When I say Asian I mean some sort of Persian Empire knock-off.

So yeah.

Hello TWSP, long time no see! Guess who has been using a similar map of Greece for their entire stay at NS?

If possible, I would love to set up a Greek seafaring nation on Crete, preferably on the northern coast. The city name would be Korotos.

Sure, gonna be active?

Sure, gonna be active?

Pending illness, freak weather, extreme poverty, collapse of civilisation and such, yes.

War with TWSP D:<

Pending illness, freak weather, extreme poverty, collapse of civilisation and such, yes.

Okay, I'll add you to the map.

Start working on a factbook and then shoot me a link so I can add it to the list here.

Put me down for a city on Rhodes please. It'll be an eatern/persian faction and a theocracy, but I need to think of a name.

Of course, let me know when you have chosen a name.

How about The Theocracy of Ahura Mazda? Ahura Mazda being the name of my city.

(He was the main God of Zoroastrianism, wich was the main Persian Relegion at this point. However I'll come up with something slighly more original for my relegion etc later)

How would you write that?

The Ahura Mazdan Theocracy? Or does your city have a formal name?

City Name: Wolfenhalle
Government: Kingdom
Race: Barbarians
Location: Romania?

How would you write that?

The Ahura Mazdan Theocracy? Or does your city have a formal name?

I missed out a word in my post. The Theocracy of Ahura Mazdan please. Right now I'm just looking at Hellinistic/Persian warfare. I'd recomend having a look through Rome Total Realism and Rome Total Alexander if you had them (this go's for everyone) to get a look at warfare and soldiers of the era.

I do have those games, so yes, I'm acquainted with militaries, tactics and warfare of the era.

Adding you and the Confederacy of Wolfenhalle.

Do you object to me running it as a half persian/half greek faction?

I used to have that game until my computer literally fried up...I remember that it took ages to move around on some of the larger maps. Ah, the good ol' days of flaming onagers...

No problem, such things were common back then.

Thanks. Do you know a site with lists of Total War Alexander units? I'm looking for one cosI don't really want to have to install it on my new computer.

Either Wikipedia, the RTW Wiki or Google.

I am interested in joining, and I would like a location preferably near the Dark red and Black city.

Not sure for a name though. :rolleyes:

Let me know when you have chosen a location and name.

Corinth then. The name will be Kingdom of Hellen.

Get to work then, factbook nao!

I'll put it up later today. How do I find out about the population? I'm guessing its about twenty thousand in Corinth.

I'll give you a population once you are done with the factbook.

Factbook completed for the most part.

Gotcha.

So none of the more oriental Asians, juch as Japan and China?

I would have liked China to be there, but then it would be impossible for any Chinese civilisation to interact with a Greek city.

True...

Nope, no China and no Japan.

And certainly no PRC.

So what do you mean by Barbarians then?

Do I really need to explain what constitutes a barbarian?

The huge horseman stack that appears randomly when you just got spearmen? Anyone know about this phenomenon from CivIII?

Barbarians are typically defined as those who are not from the "civilised world," in this case the Greeks and Romans and perhaps Persians.

Yeah, usually your spearmen can easily defeat them, but the fuckers love to kill your workers.

Here is my factbook: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566069

I will add more writing.

Your factbook looks as if TWSP's factbook raped mine and had a weird child of some sort. :p

Which is to say, it's good and informative. :D

You guys with approved Factbooks can start RP'ing, you know.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566105

My shiny new factbook. Needs work - I'll add military tomorow (hopefully - I need to go RTR to get Info on units, and I don't have time tonight)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14013947#post14013947

Factbook! Korotos is on Crete, when you add me to the map.

Can I get Sparta? I'll write up a fact book shortly.

There is no Sparta.

just the location. I know I'm not gonna rp Sparta

This IS SPARTA!

*Oh noez, my Infantry just got pwnt by a Greek hoplite*

Oh, okay.

This IS SPARTA!

*Oh noez, my Infantry just got pwnt by a Greek hoplite*

lol aw shucks :D

That was a dumb history, now I'm smaller then everyone else. :(

Don't worry about it. It's not like some militaristic nation will materialise and stamp you out because of your strategic position to his north I MEAN I LIKE APPLES.

Anathonia will not stand for this unwarranted aggression!

I mean, you made your history, not us.

I don't suppose you could use another recruit?

I wish I had seen this sooner. Can I hop in with a city in the area of Chalcis, on the island side of where that long island practically touches the Greek mainland?

Yes to both of the above, just give me names for your cities.

Mine'll be the Kingdom of Cadmeia. I'll get working on a factbook probably about 3-4 hours after this post. Off to class with me.

I finished the factbook

http://forums3.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566189

Amazon Cavalry Charge!

my factbook is done
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14015662#post14015662
can you give me some idea of what my population should be?

Speaking of which can one of you who's fact book has been approved start an IC thread for general interactions etc? Awesome :D (unless I'm being an idiot again and there already is one)

I'd like to get a city in around current-day Istanbul...I'll get started on a factbook right away.

Get ready for the Federation of El-Mara.

If I could have a city on the right side of Lesbos Island, a Greek Mixed Government State. A better explanation will be in the factbook. As for the name, Mithinmapolis. No pre-title or anything.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14016373#post14016373 Diplomacy thread!!!

Adding, shoot me a link to your factbooks once you are done.

I've got a factbook ready, but for some reason i can't post threads...and the only reason i can post messages is because of the lovely little quick-reply box.

Hmm....

I mean, you made your history, not us.

Can't I change it? :rolleyes::)

Anyway, is it possible to have mercenaries also in your army?

Why, of course, mercenaries always played an important role in ancient warfare. However, keep in mind you'll have to pay them, and if you don't they will probably mutiny against you.

Not to mention your economy will suffer from the constant payments.

Unless you do what the Carthiginians and Phtomolies did, and hired merchenaries in return for land and citizenship - ten years service and you get a large plot of farmland and full rights in the empire. Plus you have to pay normal soldiers anyway. Most of my standing army's going to be Libyan Mercenaries.

oh great! Libyan Cavalry . .. sounds like a blast. Oh well thats where heavy infantry comes in to it I guess.

Save a spot for my Pirate Haven on Lemnos....>_< HAPPY?

Save a spot for my Pirate Haven on Lemnos....>_< HAPPY?

hey mal how goes it?

hey mal how goes it?

nothing too much. School's decided to be an ass and burden me with hours of homework. Being a 'pirate haven', I won't have to be too active and yet I can still make quite an effect on this RP....


Also, OFF-SITE PLZ. I know TWSP is against this, *because he's dum*, but I think it makes more sense. We can simply move the already made threads to the off-site.

DaWoad, I just noticed your military numbers, and they are bigger then your population. :eek:

DaWoad, I just noticed your military numbers, and they are bigger then your population. :eek:

they equal my population. . . no? or did I screw up the math???? (and the only reason for that is that technically every member of every cast is millitary. Those millitia train once or twice a year . . .read more in factbook)

The World Soviet Party, I've just TG'd my factbook. I can't get this posting problem to solve itself.

nothing too much. School's decided to be an ass and burden me with hours of homework. Being a 'pirate haven', I won't have to be too active and yet I can still make quite an effect on this RP....


Also, OFF-SITE PLZ. I know TWSP is against this, *because he's dum*, but I think it makes more sense. We can simply move the already made threads to the off-site.

I think this could work onsite but the calls his . .. and yours I guess if u wanna set it up.

The World Soviet Party, I've just TG'd my factbook. I can't get this posting problem to solve itself.

post it offsite then. . . use this site http://nationstates.wikia.com

Mithinmapoleis Factbook (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566208)

TWSP, approval please.

There's still the problem of posting new threads concerning diplomicy...but done.

http://help.wikia.com/wiki/History_of_El-Mara

Theres a diplomacy thread allready. Just post there.

Could we get a link in the OP to all related threads?

Diplomacy link is here: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566204

Hmm, I have my factbook done, though I'm wondering if I should leave it unposted in case we move?

na post it so you can join the diplo thread . . . plus we may not be moving offsite

May not?

This is TWSP's thread! :eek:

There's still the problem of posting new threads concerning diplomicy...but done.

http://help.wikia.com/wiki/History_of_El-Mara

Okay, factbook approved, population: 305,000

May not?

This is TWSP's thread! :eek:

exactly. . . .which is why I said may. He might decide to otherwise were staying right here lol

And we are not moving off-site, also, Ravea, keep trying to post it here.

Sure thing, captain.

awesome sounds good

And we are not moving off-site, also, Ravea, keep trying to post it here.

Jerk... D: < Keeping it here is horribly inefficient. Half the time we are going to be skimming through pages of random RPs just to find one thread. If it was off-site, everything there would be related to '400 B.C.'.

Jerk... D: < Keeping it here is horribly inefficient. Half the time we are going to be skimming through pages of random RPs just to find one thread. If it was off-site, everything there would be related to '400 B.C.'.

Fact - offsite RP's die.

And then it would die due to lack of posts, YAY!

So no.

Alright, then factbook is here: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14016722#post14016722

http://help.wikia.com/wiki/History_of_El-Mara

Edited. Still trying to post it here. Perhaps if someone started a thread for me, saving me a spot so i can post under whoever starts it?

Anyways, I'm trying to contact the mods as we speak.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14016739#post14016739 <---- for you ravea

Danke, friend.

Ah, minor issue, but Cadmeia should be located on the island side of the strait, not the mainland.

Danke, friend.

no worries at all

Can I join?

Sure, join in.

EDIT

Oh, and fixed the map thing.

just post the factbook in a new thread?

Indeed, make your claim here before though.

Damn superpower city-states. :/

ohai mal

The 2 islands right above and to the left of the red circle (I assume since most of my influence is water I can get a bit more land

sweeet hey Ralk

hi. I guess we might be neighbors

Damn superpower city-states. :/

ohai mal

ur the one who didn't want to come to my party .. . uh diplomatic meeting that is lol

hi. I guess we might be neighbors

sounds good to me

Superpower city-states as in those that have 300,000+ people. And claim to have 240,000 man militaries. Cough.

Ralkovia, your claim is approved, get working on your factbook.

For the moment, your influence will be just like every other player, gets bigger with time.

Superpower city-states as in those that have 300,000+ people. And claim to have 240,000 man militaries. Cough.

aw I have a 230 000 man military AND population . .. of course only 80 000 are trained and half of those are hunters (and thus provide food) and cooks but still!

I don't see why TWSP approved that. I have a 160,000 population, I have one of the more militaristic city-states here, and I have a 20,000-25,000 man military. I mean, come on, you need people to support your economy.

I don't see why TWSP approved that. I have a 160,000 population, I have one of the more militaristic city-states here, and I have a 20,000-25,000 man military. I mean, come on, you need people to support your economy.

lol cause . . .like I said. I have a Trained and full time millitary of 40 000 tops. (you could probably bring it up to about that) the rest are included only cause they are either militia or my Rangers

Most of my military isn't all that well trained, and only fight when absolutely needed.

I've included about ten of fifteen thousand support in there as well.

Professional soldiers probably amount to about 60,000-80,000.

Sup Stok.

If I do decide to continue with this, I'm gonna be some pirate haven 'state' on Lemnos. The only 'standing' army we'll have the island defense. We do have quite a number of pirate vessels to wreak your commerce... D: <

But do bear with me here, I'm not an expert on pirates in the B.C.'s *although I do know there was quite a significant number of them*

And if Soviet wants me to change that, I certainly will.

Done

Done

link it

I have updated the military section of my factbook to include siege engines to make up for my major disadvantage in terms of manpower. I mean, a division of 1,000 men will not stand against 240,000 men. The sheer weight of them all would be overwhelming. So, I rely on morale damage.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566217

3000 galleys? What, are you insane?

Most of those are just on docks, plus thats my max capacity, but I'll edit it

...

Athens and Sparta, in their epic naval battle, used a few hundred total. Their combined populations were immense for the period. And you have 1000 galleys alone? Come on.

...

Athens and Sparta, in their epic naval battle, used a few hundred total. Their combined populations were immense for the period. And you have 1000 galleys alone? Come on.

me? or him . . .cause I have 1 000 fishing ships that maybe . . . just maybe could be used for some kind of battle. . .but probably not

I was referring to Ralkovia.

You're not Russia. You don't have the manpower to field "1000 galleys and 3000 quadremes." What have you become, Hat?

I shouldn't be talking because i have kind of a bloated army, but i have less than 250 ships, and 40,000 men to sail them.

What Stok said.

Yeah I edited it,

50,000 sailors? You are NOT a superpower. You can't field all of your ships at once, anyway.

obviously, you forget that I'm an island nation, just because I have 50,000 sailors it doesn't mean that they are all being fielded at once. Thats my entire navy, 50,000 sailors(merchants, soldiers, fishermen etc.)

how about now?

Your navy is more like it. But what of your land army? You're a naval nation with more people in the army than in the navy. What?

Also, did TWSP give you your population or did you make it up?

Do I really need to explain what constitutes a barbarian?

*Sighs* I mean, are we talking fur clothed pillagers, some tree dwellers with a crazy old guy for a shaman, ect...?

*Sighs* I mean, are we talking fur clothed pillagers, some tree dwellers with a crazy old guy for a shaman, ect...?

This is NOT Dungeons and Dragons.

Although the average Odinochnian priest smokes marijuana to make divinations, he is not the crazy old shaman stereotype, and they don't dwell in trees or wear fur like the generic Barbarian class. And Pillaging is far from their primary mean of survival.

Barbarians are basically nomadic, semi-nomadic people and anyone who doesn't speak the languages of the claimed "civilized world" of a time, thus basically it was a quite biased term.

Alright, so I got a question peoples. I'm looking at being a naval power instead of land, so I'm wondering if anyone would help me with estimates on ship numbers to achieve that. I'm also wondering if you think a professional core of 2,000 hoplites would make sense (2,000 hoplites would require a professional combat-support base of 2,000 squires to be peltasts, and when going to battle, would require another 1,500-2,000 nonprofessionals), and 500 or so cavalry. Plus probably 500 of the potniai.

A naval power, eh? Then your army would be extremely small in comparison to your army. If you have 20,000 sailors, expect 1,500 infantry to your navy if you're an island, since you're not really going to use your army. But seeing as to how you're not exactly an "island", per se, you would want a ratio of 3:1 in terms of sailors to infantry respectively. Total, perhaps a military of 40,000-50,000. You can't place 90% of your people into the military; this isn't StarCraft.

Well, I figure that since my city is situated on the strait, it is very easy to defend from land, so naval attacks are the ones to be most worried about. Plus, I want a relatively peaceful (for the era) merchant empire, rather than something that runs around trying to slaughter the major powers in the area, so the navy employs all those sailors in a merchant fleet when not at war.

Militias for defense of the state are easily called up and have little impact on the economy if they remain in the city's general area and can quickly and easily return to work (which many wouldn't be doing, anyway, if we were being attacked), so that's why I'm looking at an offensive army of 6,000; so, a fleet of at least 18,000 sailors? 10-20 marines and 18 or so deck crew per trireme -- no numbers for the larger ships. 170 rowers per trireme, 224 per quadrireme, 278 per quinquireme (even though those aren't invented yet). Are these the numbers everyone is using?

Those are good numbers. I think that that is quite reasonable for a merchant empire.

How many ships can I field the most if my army is that small? (My factbook shows my small army)

If your army is that tiny, then your navy will be even tinier. You're even smaller than my city, and my city is really small in comparison to everyone else. I would say a few triremes maximum, and a few hundred sailors.

Well, suppose I wanted a navy bigger then my army?

Then you would have a few more sailors, say a few hundred, than you have infantry. However, either way you are very prone to attack...

Oh, man, I just looked through everything again... with fleets of 250 triremes out there, there is no way I can have the large fleet I was hoping for. Granted, I can up my numbers in war since lots of people buy Cadmeian ships, even Cadmeians, and they could volunteer after drawing up a crew, but if I have about 90-100 professionally-crewed ships, the levies would probably only bring them up to, at most, 130-140, and like with the hoplite militias, that's only good for defense.

Bah. Oh well. Perhaps I'll just have better mariners and ships.

Those fleets with 250 something boats are all BS. It's the ancient age. You cannot field that many ships.

I think Athens had about 200 tiremes.

I believe that at their height, they could field between 100 and 200 triremes, and they also had several other minor cities under their direct hegemony provided many of those ships. They also had to operate non-warships. The Battle of Arginusae had them numbering 155 warships, around 50 of which were allied, not actually theirs.

And that point, they were already at war. Many of the ships had been built because of the war. They didn't just have them all laying around. It's a massive strain on resources to operate that many, much less maintain them for years. They become waterlogged and have to be beached, dried, and generally repaired fairly often. So, having 250+ means you'll likely have 150+ laying on the beaches. Unsightly, to say the least, and a waste of resources.

ya the logistics on a ship[ at that point was . . .major. With a total of 1 000 ships (thats fishing ships and traders) you could probably have about 300 in the water at any one time

can someone take a look at my military numbers?

*sighs*

Seriously everyones militarys are way OTT. I've got 380,000 people, and I think I'm the biggest (might not be). You'd be looking at 3% of people as soldiers to be realistic, and for me thats 11400, round up to a maixumum of 12000 men realsiticly. Then theres people half my size claiming to have 60,000 odd men. Fine with me. When your entire population has starved I'll walk in and take over. Similarly I am a naval power (in my history plus I'm an eastern faction) And I will be fielding at most 120 ships total. Any more is imposible. Be realistic for god's sake.

Agreed. Thanks Belschaft.

Would it be permissible for, say, a person to rp a nation similar to Carthage, Syracuse, Egypt, or the Achaemenid Empire?

The Achaemenid Empire was the persian dynasty of the time and is an option. I'm RPing a ntion with aspects of Carthage and Egypt, and Syracuse was a greek settlement, and therefore very similar to the greek based citiers allready created.

The Achaemenid Empire was the persian dynasty of the time and is an option. I'm RPing a ntion with aspects of Carthage and Egypt, and Syracuse was a greek settlement, and therefore very similar to the greek based citiers allready created.

Be that as it may, I need T.W.S.P.'s word that I can first. I would prefer to be in Asia Minor/Persia area. I'll prepare a factbook in advance for perusal.

If triremes are reduced to Ahura Mazda having the most (as is likely), then that would be fantastic as that was what I had originally planned -- to be fairly near them and near the top of the navy ladder.

Though, for reference, in case you included me in the unrealistic group, I did have it stated that many of the crews come from merchant ships, so the whole 90 are not constantly fielded, they're just extant and could be fielded in an emergency; so, I would have 18,000 experienced men capable of joining a war fleet, though not all actually in it. I'd figure something more like 30-40 afloat, some of which are actually being used as transports (for goods or for small parties of people) since they would not all be state-owned, as is how the Greek cities worked.

If triremes are reduced to Ahura Mazda having the most (as is likely), then that would be fantastic as that was what I had originally planned -- to be fairly near them and near the top of the navy ladder.

Though, for reference, in case you included me in the unrealistic group, I did have it stated that many of the crews come from merchant ships, so the whole 90 are not constantly fielded, they're just extant and could be fielded in an emergency; so, I would have 18,000 experienced men capable of joining a war fleet, though not all actually in it. I'd figure something more like 30-40 afloat, some of which are actually being used as transports (for goods or for small parties of people) since they would not all be state-owned, as is how the Greek cities worked.

OOC- You could propeably realisticly have a few more than that. I'm gonna field about 60 triremes, with maybe 20 Quineremes and 40 Biremes (speeling may be wrong, can't be arsed to check for OOC). I'd recomend similar numbers for everyone else.

Quinquireme -- though, I would note that those weren't invented by 400; they're a 4th Century thing, so we're not too far away from them, but still. However, quadriremes are probably doable. And I forgot about biremes. If I add biremes to the count, I can probably have a few more ships floating around. Though, if you're happy with my having more triremes out, too, then I'll do that as well.

Edit: Also, tetrere and pentere are the Greek names for quadriremes and quinquiremes, respectively. In case anyone cares.

OOC- You could propeably realisticly have a few more than that. I'm gonna field about 60 triremes, with maybe 20 Quineremes and 40 Biremes (speeling may be wrong, can't be arsed to check for OOC). I'd recomend similar numbers for everyone else.

Just fielding 60 triremes alone is going to require you to have at a minimum of 12,000 men...that in itself is about as large as most field armies got back then, not including the navy. What city-state are you emulating? Athens?

Thrashia, go for it.

Sweet. Factbook going up now.

Seriously now, I have 25,000 soldiers only because I am very militaristic. If you're pacifist, then you would have the same number of soldiers as I do even if you have double my population (160,000). Belschaft, nobody here is a superpower. They're frikkin' cities. I personally would say that you get 20 triremes maximum if you're a land power, and 100 if you're a naval power.

What Stok said is true. If anyone is a super-power, it would be me...http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/Upum/Emots/sign0081.gif

My Factbook (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14018828)

I'd like to join. The city that I'd like to create would be on the Thermaic gulf. Tyrissa is the name of the Greek Empire I'd like to have.

Thanks,
Miamoria

Go ahead.

Stok
And I think you'll find I am a naval power, and have the smallest army despite the largest population. I have no standing army pursee, as citizens are only required to do military service when the city is threatended or in exceptional circumstances. The few full time soldiers I do have are Mercenaries from North Africa and Asia Minor serving in return for citizenship and land.

Santheres
Thanks for the name knowledge. I know quite a bit about the period but am not all knowing. I'll edit it when I next do some work on my factbook (little and often)

Thrashia
Yes I am emulating athens. I'm an island state, and one of my main industries is shipbuilding. As for the men needed - ships were labour intensive, but the majority were slaves and prisoners of war doing the rowing, and therefore not counted in pop.

better?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566217

(I have a question can you start up colonies or no cause I'm really itching to get to the most important place on this map)

Thrashia does indeed have the largest military, seeing as to how he's not a city. :/ But we do need that great big enemy to go "OMGSPARTA" on.

Belschaft, if you do as you say then you will have earned my respect.

Ralkovia, get out of your power complex and stop thinking you're a big superpower. You're miniscule, even in NS. You're nothing. Think of it that way, and you'll feel much better when you get ripped to pieces by somebody. You don't get 406,000 people unless TWSP told you so.

Thrashia does indeed have the largest military, seeing as to how he's not a city. :/ But we do need that great big enemy to go "OMGSPARTA" on.

Belschaft, if you do as you say then you will have earned my respect.

Ralkovia, get out of your power complex and stop thinking you're a big superpower. You're miniscule, even in NS. You're nothing. Think of it that way, and you'll feel much better when you get ripped to pieces by somebody. You don't get 406,000 people unless TWSP told you so.

Thanks. The thing people are missing is this is a Role Play. It's about being semi realistic while still having fun, and creating a good story. Massive armies of doom do not make for good stories.

(It allows me to compesate for my tiny brain and fine I'll just take over one of the most important position in the greek world, strait of the dardanelles )

Uh, the Dardanelles were not as important then as they are now. The Greeks didn't really bother to go past it. Even during the Trojan War, they fought around the Dardanelles. There was just nothing really past there.

Tyrissian Factbook (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566279)

This pic may be helpfull for Greek factions. I've got pics for all my unit types on my factbook, and I got them the same way I got this-

Type into google images either rtw or rtr (rome total war and rome total realism) and then the unit your looking for - ie: rtr pezoi - this should get you a dozen+ pics of the unit you can use.

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/4940/cityhoplitesbm6.jpg

yeah but you forget it locks the green guy in except for land trade. In real life the dardanelles were important, there was plenty of stuff behind, look I just want to RP I'm not in the mood for chitchat I wanted to see what I could get away with and obviously TWSP wants to run a strict rp(which I am fine with) I'll take most of my population away, I just like being a superpower, I take losses and play like any other player I just like to test the set limit.

The Greeks didn't really trade with the Persians as much as they did with each other. Sure, the Persians supported certain Greek factions and flip-flopped, but the two sides were largely hostile. Also, you're not even on the list.

And no, you are not a superpower by any stretch. Nor am I. The both of us could get flattened faster than a piece of gold by hammer.

But we non-superpowers could do plenty of damage in the process. We'd die but we'd take a hell of a lot of them with us.

(I like to act like a superpower and belschafts right we could do the same damage right back at them if they were MT, sure but you still don't get it the green guy can't really get out without stopping to go through me if he wants to trade by sea)

True, but in the process of blocking him you've placed yourself away fro mthe key area (the southern agean). I'd have gone for western crete - it's a key location for trade and conflict.

good point now your making me want to move

Hey, Ral, you realize that Greek states tended not to have professional armies at all, much less large ones? You have over 20% of your population as professional soldiers, which means they are contributing exactly nothing to your city except when actively pillaging someone's countryside. Plus, you have your entire industry halting every other week for militia training of the rest of the war-capable citizens.

So, your nation would have to be poor and those professional soldiers better be poorly equipped and poorly trained next to everyone else's. And probably starving. And then your ships... man, those would be in terrible shape.

At least, that's how I'd RP it if I ever fought you.

this man here speaks the truth

Oh, and if anyone finds numbers on the size of the Spartiate, then I'll note that the reason Sparta had a large professional army and subjugated everyone around them to form Lacedaemon was exactly because they were poor and starving, had a large town at best while Athens, Corinth, Thebes, etc. all had actual cities, and needed to conquer in order to survive.

They also had a social system which gave way for that, one that I haven't seen in anyone's factbooks (indeed, mine probably comes the closest by requiring the upper class to answer to the call to arms when the city is in danger, and by having the tiny professional core made up of Landlords and their slave-squires -- and it's still not close enough to manage the same thing) and in the end caused their downfall because it was impossible to keep up their numbers for long.

So I'm guessing that means my Samaten Empire is accepted? While I do start with an Empire and everyone else a city-state, that doesn't mean I'm immediately going to go "OMGZ I Nukez yu nubs!" and try haveing 300 the sequel come out or something. I've got my own internal problems, not to mention competing with some of the major City-States in Asia Minor for trade markets, etc. So if anyone is worried about that, then don't. I'd only ever raise an army like Xerxes if there was an immediate threat to the existence of the Samaten Empire.

(Good point but I had to edit it so my population is much lower, oh well I guess I'm just going to copy and paste then edit someone elses profile instead. so much for my dreams of world conquest....oh poo)

Okay, I'll allow the empire, but on a smaller scale, that means not going off-map.

(Okay this is my final edit)

Ralkovia, you fail for censoring the word "God." Why censor that word? It's not controversial, and "political correctness" would mean that all of the fascists, communists, anarchists, etc. on NS would disappear.

TWSP, you really need to assign him a population.

Okay, I'll allow the empire, but on a smaller scale, that means not going off-map.

Why not just put my map below yours in the 1st Post? That way people understand the extent to which my power lies and vice versa? And the most interaction I'll have will be from the satraps in western Asia Minor, least at the beginning. Depends on how things go. Also it leaves space for what happens whenever one of these blokes becomes the next Philip or Alexander...

(its not out of political correctness, people who care about political correctness can fuck off its a free country. I just like to say G-d instead of God. I am allowed to do that can't I?)

A free country? Which free country? NS is not centred in the United States, if that is what you assume. Also, why do you use parentheses? This is an OOC thread, as displayed in the title.

Just say the word "God" instead of "G-d." Saying "G-d" just looks silly.

I prefer G-d instead of God its my habit. Just like its your habit to criticise people on using a different term. Call me original, silly, whatever I just prefer my way. I was raised to not spell God when I say his name but I can call him adonai if you prefer.

I prefer G-d instead of God its my habit. Just like its your habit to criticise people on using a different term. Call me original, silly, whatever I just prefer my way. I was raised to not spell God when I say his name but I can call him adonai if you prefer.

Like the man says Stok. Don't know if you knew this, but Jews are forbidden to say or write God's name. Which is why they call him Lord, or "adonai". Christians kept that same tradition up until the Protestant reformation and the translation of the bible into German.

I'm an agnostic, so I really have never cared much for religion. Had you just told me that, I would have left you alone. Adonai looks better, though. Sorry about that.

Thanks, I just prefer not to use G-ds name in full.

Also @ Everyone:

Like I mentioned in Belschaft's thread, everyone should not be having Alexander's Macedonian cavalry or sarissa, or a lot of other things. The only thing you have in terms of warfare are pretty limited to the following:

Hoplite

Each hoplite provided his own equipment. Thus, only those who could afford such weaponry fought as hoplites; as with the Roman Republican army it was the middle classes who formed the bulk of the infantry. Equipment was not standardised, although there were doubtless trends in general designs over time, and between city-states. Hoplites had customized armour, and possibly family symbols on his shield. The equipment might well be passed down in families, since it would have been expensive to manufacture.

Hoplites generally armed themselves just before battle because the equipment was so heavy - the total weight of the hoplites' armour was around 22-27 kilograms (50-60 pounds). A hoplite typically had a bronze breastplate (muscled armour), a bronze helmet with cheekplates, as well as greaves and other armour. The design of the helmets used varied through time. The Corinthian helmet was standardised, and was a very successful design. The crests on the helmet differed for each city-state. The Thracian helmet had a huge visor to further increase protection. In later periods, linen breastplates called linothorax were used, as they were tougher and cheaper to make. The linen was 0.5 cm thick. Hoplites carried a circular shield called an aspis (often referred to as a hoplon) made from wood and covered in bronze, measuring roughly 1 meter in diameter. This medium-sized shield (and indeed, large for the time) was made possible partly by its shape, which allowed it to be supported on the shoulder. It spanned from chin to knee and was very heavy. It weighed 8-15 kg (17.6 - 33 pounds)

The primary weapon was a spear around 2.7 meters in length called a doru. Although accounts of its length vary, it is usually now believed to have been seven to nine feet long (~2.1 - ~2.7m). It was held one-handed, the other hand holding the hoplite's shield. The spearhead was usually a curved leaf shape, while the rear of the spear had a spike called a sauroter ('lizard-killer') which was used to stand the spear in the ground (hence the name). It was also used as a secondary weapon if the main shaft snapped, or for the rear ranks to finish off fallen opponents as the phalanx advanced over them. It is a matter of contention among historians whether the hoplite used the spear overarm or underarm. Held underarm, the thrusts would have been less powerful but under more control, and vice versa. It seems likely that both motions were used, depending on the situation. If attack was called for, an overarm motion was more likely to break through an opponent's defense. The upward thrust is more easily deflected by armour due to its lesser leverage. However, when defending, an underarm carry absorbed more shock and could be 'couched' under the shoulder for maximum stability. It should also be said that an overarm motion would allow more effective combination of the aspis and doru if the shield wall had broken down, while the underarm motion would be more effective when the shield had to be interlocked with those of one's neighbours in the battle-line. Hoplites in the rows behind the lead would almost certainly have made overarm thrusts. The rear ranks held their spears underarm, and raised spears upwards at increasing angles. This was an effective defence against missiles, deflecting their force.

Hoplites also carried a short sword called a xiphos. The short sword was a secondary weapon, used if and when spears broke, or if the phalanx broke rank. When the enemy retreated, hoplites might drop their shield and spear, and pursue the enemy with their swords. A disadvantage to the xiphos though was that it was extremely heavy and did not provide as much reach as most swords from that period.

By contrast with hoplites, other contemporary infantry (e.g. Persian) tended to wear relatively light armour, use wicker shields, and were armed with shorter spears, javelins, and bows.

Mercenaries & other Troops
Although tactically there was little innovation in the Peloponessian War, there does appear to have been an increase in the use of light infantry, such as peltasts (javelin throwers) and archers. Many of these would have been mercenary troops, hired from outlying regions of Greece. For instance, the Agrianes from Thrace were well-renowned peltasts, whilst Crete was famous for its archers.

Cavalry played very little part in Greek armies, as the majority of those who could afford a horse and armour were more inclined towards being a hoplite. Any cavalry would have been in small groups to scout and perhaps skirmish with the enemy. It was not until Philip II's Macedonian army conquered Greece that large detachments of cavalry began to see a major role in combat.

bump

I made some updates on my factbook, if anyone cares to read a tiny bit more.

I made some updates on my factbook, if anyone cares to read a tiny bit more.

Not bad. Much better than some others I've seen...http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/Upum/Emots/thisissparta.gif

@TWSP: I'm going to guess, based off varied sources, that my population is between 1.2 to 3 million people overall. If you have a more fitting number, then please inform me.

Well, if Thrashia gets that empire, we might want to start thinking off allying together against the persians eh? :D

ASTA charter on it's way Greal....

ASTA charter on it's way Greal....

You're using a lot of modern ideas and terms in that charter there Bel...might want to rethink the wording a bit, remembering that this is the 4th Century BC and not the 21st Century...

New thread open Here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566352).

You're using a lot of modern ideas and terms in that charter there Bel...might want to rethink the wording a bit, remembering that this is the 4th Century BC and not the 21st Century...

I could also write it in greek. However I actually want people to be able to understand it, and be able to get the idea easily.

Would you consider Crete's northern coast to be on the Aegean?

Yes. The Aegean is the area between of sea between Greece, Macedonia, Thrace, Turkey and Crete.

Would you consider Crete's northern coast to be on the Aegean?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/Upum/mapyoen44.png

Danke Thrasia. If your teritory is roughly within that box feel free to join (go's to everyone)

Man I want to join so badly it no fun having to await to be approved.

Essentially, you are trying to ally about half of the players in the game then?

Consider me independant, it'll be more fun to roleplay around the fringes, rather than in a massive power bloc.

It's not a military alliance - in fact members could actually fight each otgher inside the charter. Plus there is the huge (not) Persian empire to contend with, just off that map.

Honestly, I'd rather remain friendly with the Persians. I'm RPing my merchant fleet as being very, very large, especially because other than working with agriculture, religion or as a diplomat/politician there is no other work.

I don't really want direct war, but it sounds like he is goung to try to take teh rest of Asia Minor, and if he does I'll try to stop him. ASTA members don't have to though if they don't want too.

If you guys want a reliable monetary system you could use the Samaten Drachma, as explained in my factbook.

EDIT: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14018828

I'm probably going to ally myself with the Persians to get away from your Aegean Alliance, since my people have their eyes pointed towards Hellen.

Well, it would be for trade only. And besides, negotiation is always possible.

http://http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=suggestionhj0.png
Would claiming an area here be acceptable...? ...Id call it the Kingdom of Tharos

Gataway, Miamoria has claimed that area actually.

I must say, this RP seemed to have gone over incredibly well. it has most definiately made my Top 10 RPs of the month list.

Not bad. Much better than some others I've seen...http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/Upum/Emots/thisissparta.gif

@TWSP: I'm going to guess, based off varied sources, that my population is between 1.2 to 3 million people overall. If you have a more fitting number, then please inform me.

woh what???? 1.2-3 mill??? the rest of us are in the hundreds of thousands!


EDIT: Sorry your an empire my bad . . .by the way has anyone seen The World Soviet Party

Oh, I give in. An RP like this ought to have at least one Classics major in it, right?

I'll put together a city-state concept and report back. ;)

Oh, I give in. An RP like this ought to have at least one Classics major in it, right?

I'll put together a city-state concept and report back. ;)

Already is one. :wink:

Oh, I give in. An RP like this ought to have at least one Classics major in it, right?

I'll put together a city-state concept and report back. ;)
lol awesome :D . . .I'm a bio-med tox . . .um. . . .don't think that'll come in handy huh?

Oh well i went off the map on page one..Im still skimming through all the posts as well.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7142/suggestionex5.png

I dont see this..least not yet..

nope . . .leader has been on in a while . . .(ie., about 24 hours.) he'll/seh'll update it

well ive already started a factbook...I just need a location approved and then I'll be good to go lol

I am confident your claim is free Gataway. I'm the light blue city on Lebos btw. It'd be a pleasure to trade once your factbook and location is approved.

yep understood . . .btw to anyone who is joining feel free to join the diplomatic thread. Just rp your leaders already at the table.

indeed indeed...well I am off for the night...TC

I'm still awaiting approval SAD FACE :(

AGNRY FAIC

Ralkovia, at least have a NORMAL city-state. No, you're not an empire. Let us say that your dreams and hopes of an empire will be crushed right now. Only Thrashia maintains an empire.

woh Stok back off man. for starters since when have you been running this little show? Second when did thrashia get accepted? last would you RELAX! please! pretty pretty please??? cause your going a little overboard. its . . .just . .. a . . .game

woh Stok back off man. for starters since when have you been running this little show? Second when did thrashia get accepted? last would you RELAX! please! pretty pretty please??? cause your going a little overboard. its . . .just . .. a . . .game

I was accepted, however my official population is still under question. And Ralkovia is simply impatient. I'm sure he doesn't mean to come across as being a bother. So, Stok, please have some understanding of his position. Ralkovia, I'll examine your proposed factbook, if you have one made, and give you any pointers it may need.

DaWoad, Thrashia ASKED TWSP if he could have an empire. I am not "running the show," for TWSP is still in command. I have no power. There is still the question of Thrashia's population, though.

Impatience is not a virtue, therefore I need not tolerate it. When have I acted "overboard"? I have not said

"LOOK you're Annoying Me so Please Just go away. I'm Ignoreing you now. IGNORED"

Sorry for my absence today, problems with my ISP.

And it's late now, going to sleep in a while, I'll solve all your problems tomorrow.

TWSP would you please just take a quick look at my fact book I just want to get in already and play.

On a cheerier note, slave thread = win. I've never had as much fun treating people like animals at best.

Also, question. How are we handling expanding our influence over nonplayers? Just start a thread and have someone play the NPCity or what? Cadmeia really needs to just go ahead and put the weak island towns under her power.

On a cheerier note, slave thread = win. I've never had as much fun treating people like animals at best.
:tongue:

Also, question. How are we handling expanding our influence over nonplayers? Just start a thread and have someone play the NPCity or what? Cadmeia really needs to just go ahead and put the weak island towns under her power.

That sounds like a good option. What towns are they? I could, permitting, play them up for you.

TWSP would you please just take a quick look at my fact book I just want to get in already and play.

Mind re-posting a link to your factbook?

Sorry for my absence today, problems with my ISP.

And it's late now, going to sleep in a while, I'll solve all your problems tomorrow.

yay thanks TWSP

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=566217

I was accepted, however my official population is still under question. And Ralkovia is simply impatient. I'm sure he doesn't mean to come across as being a bother. So, Stok, please have some understanding of his position. Ralkovia, I'll examine your proposed factbook, if you have one made, and give you any pointers it may need.

sorry my bad Thrashia. I had assumed that due to the lack of pop. you hadn't actually been accepted my bad. Speaking of which could you take a look at my factbook as well? (just for pointers etc . . .btw my society is odd .. .be warned)