NationStates Jolt Archive

I will post an IC response to Vetalia, Uiri, and Aschenhyrst later tonight

There will be no invasion, no break down of government, Greston is out of the war and will no longer be in anything. I have promised to keep it just as it is and Greston will not be changed in the slightest. Consider it Terra non Grata, as for the matter of the Gothic ships there I have yet to decide.

I don't agree with it, but if those are Greston's wishes, I'll stand by them. As far as realism goes though, that's about a one out of ten.

ODECON peacekeepers would be getting involved for sure, seeing as Greston is a member. Our primary goal would be the protection of Grestonian civilians, though.

Our goal would be to preserve a pro-Vetalian fascist or at least authoritarian government in the country and to ensure they can continue to provide us some aid in the region, even if only to provide bases and supply lines for our or Gholgoth forces.

Civilian-wise, Grestonians are held in very high regard in Vetalia so they would receive very preferential treatment.

West Ponente - I assume you're waiting for me to actually begin an attack? I'll get a post up sometimes tomorrow.

Our goal would be to preserve a pro-Vetalian fascist or at least authoritarian government in the country and to ensure they can continue to provide us some aid in the region, even if only to provide bases and supply lines for our or Gholgoth forces.

Civilian-wise, Grestonians are held in very high regard in Vetalia so they would receive very preferential treatment.

The RP isn't happening anyways, as I think Greston wants his country intact (should he ever wish to return).

Yal, TG

Replied

I will post an IC response to Vetalia, Uiri, and Aschenhyrst later tonight

What about my post?

What about my post?

I'll respond tonight

I have 2 CVBGs, just so you are aware and 10 Foudre class LPDs. I am calling in a third as well. Also, I meant two GBU Paveway II's per aircraft, as soon as they were in the air. Also, I meant the 76 mm fire to be anti-ship, not anti-air, although the gun itself is capable of anti-ship, anti-air and ground shelling.

What if one of Gholgoth's members goes "oooo... Land!" and jumps on it? Not saying it'll happen... but the thought had occurred to me that I could do a cheap snagging of some islands at very little military cost. Then again, I don't really have the amount of forces in the area to take a chunk of land that big, defend it AND continue the invasion. I'd have to do one or the other.

First off, this is all hypotheticial. I really don`t believe Greston will stay out of NS (much to my disappointment), I don`t believe his ego allows him to do something like what he`s proposed.
What we are talking about is after the RP, land has been doled out in the past to new members after a request to join the region has been sent in. Until recently, ours has been a xenophobic region. We`ve chosen to stay out of II politics and the insueing madness that follows. Some unnamed members sought out conflicts in II and the rest of us have had to reap what they`ve sown. The MU forays into the recent Havenic War and LION Conflict have been our attempts to purge the aggressor nations from the region.
Our region has sought out active members and we have tryed to discourage the practice of allowing the establishment of Foreign colonies by outsiders, this allows regional members peace of mind in knowing that there aren`t battles constantly going on in their backyards from the rest of the worlds troubles spilling over.

I'm much happier (as are some in Gholgoth) now that my/our hands have been washed of you.


You keep believing that.

Truth be told I don't have a problem with you, or anyone in Gholgoth; I roleplayed with them before their ascension to your region and after their entrance, and I will continue to do so. If you wish to cover your ears and drown out the surrounding noise be my guest, but do not be suprised if some people point and snicker.

You know what would be awesome? If certain people stopped using this thread for things that it was in no way made for. Also if certain people stopped butting into other people's affairs just to comment on the events of several months ago. If that has to be discussed, IRC is such a beautiful medium of interaction; why let it go to waste?

MAP (http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/804/ponentegn7.png) of West Ponente with military bases that would be known to foreign nations/common knowledge

In my opinion, the Attack by Stratagem that clearly worked in some cases, during the early phases of this conflict, has been more interesting than the military mobilizations. Of course this sort of achievement depends more of OOC than of IC factors, in the end, particularly the ability of not attaching an OOC ego to an IC NationState and of considering the political variables that would lead some to switch sides, like what happened with Romania declaring war against the Axis during the later stages of WW2 when it was already too late to do so.

West Ponente - quick clarification, how many of what types of bullets/bombs/missiles/torpedoes and at what targets are you launching? Also, how far from your shore are we fighting?

Just thought I would point out that "Gataway" no longer officially exists as its own state instead it is a sub-kingdom and is now soverign territory of the Divine Reich of Unkerlantum, under Unkerlanti Imperial Governance via Vicerory appointed by Emperor Delvius.

All this was orchestrated via ooc and rp on an offsite forum.

Seeing as I am a Havenic member I don't know if I too now fall under the blanket ignore or if I am exempt for the reason above regardless Gataway is Unkerlantian Imperial domain.

West Ponente - quick clarification, how many of what types of bullets/bombs/missiles/torpedoes and at what targets are you launching? Also, how far from your shore are we fighting?

The same types of weapons I was using earlier, the ships on the carrier group, and we're about 30 miles-ish off the coast

so...50 km-ish? How many of the weapons, and do you have specific ships and are you targetting both CVBG's or only one? I'm sorry if it seems excessive its just that I want to make sure the response is appropriate.

so...50 km-ish? How many of the weapons, and do you have specific ships and are you targetting both CVBG's or only one? I'm sorry if it seems excessive its just that I want to make sure the response is appropriate.

We're 38.3 Miles (61.6 km) off the coast of Nuevo Italia. I am targeting both of the CVBGs. I'm currently using 27 FREMM multipurpose frigates in NI and Type 212 submarines

Out of curiosity, whats happening at the moment? There isn't really much for me to do until the fighting picks up so ive been waiting for that but there haven't been any posts in ages. Is Gholgoth still doing this, you guys just busy or have i missed something?

Well I'm finally back from a Hiatus however I'm going to have to sum up what I'll reasonably be able to do initially, considering I've been away for a while.

Out of curiosity, whats happening at the moment? There isn't really much for me to do until the fighting picks up so ive been waiting for that but there haven't been any posts in ages. Is Gholgoth still doing this, you guys just busy or have i missed something?


I think there might be some confusion as to whos turn it is to post. I'm just going to throw something up and get things rolling, hopefully nobody will get pissed off that I "moved without allowing them to post" or whatever.

No thats cool.

I think it's Gholgoth's turn, in West Ponente anyways. I responded to TSS' attack

Attn: Med and Gholgoth participants in "Angels of Agony"

I have recently announced to my Med counterparts that work is slowing down enough to allow my return to action in this thread in the near future. I now extend this same information to the Gholgoth players involved. It will be at least another two weeks (more or less) before I can begin to participate fully, I will use this time to get caught up on what has transpired in my absence. I will announce in this forum when I am fully particpating and able to be involved on a regular basis. I know that there are communications between members of our faction and the `Gothic leadership via IM, TG, etc. I will have them forward when I have fully returned along with TGing AMF personally. I thank you for your patience in this matter.

Sincerely,
Aschenhyrst

I'll have a post up soon, just need to hear back from someone real quick.

Out of curiosity, am I legally considered "in" the region since I joined after the war? I mean, I would assume so (and would like to be considered as such), but I'm a little unclear on that one. Either way, I would be mainly neutral.

I can't speak for your region, but if you plan on being neutral then it shouldn't really matter.

Fair enough. That's pretty much what I assumed anyways.

I can't speak for your region, but if you plan on being neutral then it shouldn't really matter.


Pretty much what he said : )

If for any reason your weren't neutral anymore i shouldnt see that it would be a big issue either, regardless of which side you chose.

interior of the Prime Minister's office, with its panoramic view of Alkra City. The main feature, however, was the Prime Minister himself, an imposing grey-haired figure sitting firmly at his mahogany desk.

interior of the Prime Minister's office, with its panoramic view of Verona was visible, the main feature, however, was the imposing grey-haired figure sitting firmly at his mahogany desk

...

Smooth.

Alogorthian Grand Hall
Earlier this day..
"I have made my decision" says Talbery Orbath, Alogorthia's first president as he is escorted to the balcony where to crowds of Alogorthian's are waiting for his decision.
"Attention" he says. All citizens stop immediately rather it was is almighty authority or the Imperial Snipers of Greston at every corner. "We have been through alot with Greston and it is no exception in this war between Gholgoth and the very MU i am part of." He takes a moment to stare at the anti air-craft guns blazing on the beach front. "The people of Alogorthia have been pushed around before anf we must fight back, but never against an ally." "Screw that" says an Angry citizen as he throws a rock of Greston Imported marble that fell of the Grand Hall at the President. The man was immediately sniped by the presidents guards and the Imperial Snipers. " We obey your decisions Greston. We are under your controll for now." He walks of the balcony back into the hall away from the angry, crying and cheering citizens. " I wish to dicuss this more," he said to to John Gutted ", in private." The Alogorthian flag fell and was replaced by the Grestonian flag above the hall. The Alogorthians are not without pride, and they took the original Alogorthian flag that was made by there founders and gave it to the Alogorthian Soldier, Lt. Marcus Brodin seeing that he was the only Alogorthian with a oath to protect the flag, the nation and the honor.

This is the OOC thread, the IC thread is linked on the first page here.

Nice wankage on the number of ships 2690 ships from Agrandov.. I mean thats only 1010 ships shy of how many aircraft the US navy operates and its only 288 more ships than the US airforce has fighters.

This is why I left II for more realistic places where such bs isn't accepted as normal rp.

Right.

Let's ignore the fact that there are already naval forces in the theatre that size which have not caused problems.
Let's ignore the fact that there are Havenic (and other) navies which are four times the size of mine which have never caused problems.

I'll pick up your example of the US Navy. I'll make this as simple as possible.

The US Navy operates 280 ships. The United States has 301 million people.
That means that there are ~0.93 ships per million people.

Let's say that I have 4000 ships, total. Agrandov has 4.846 billion, or 4,846 million people.
That means that there are ~0.83 ships per million people.

In 2003 it was estimated that the US government spent 4% of GDP on defence. Agrandov's GDP is over 13 times larger than that of the US. Agrandov's defence budget is over 68 times larger than that of the US. I am not making these numbers up, statistics from Agrandov are from NSEconomy to show that I'm not bending numbers here.

If the US spends $500 billion on defence and has 280 ships, that averages out to ~0.56 ships per billion dollars. If I spend $36 trillion on defence and have 4000 ships, that is ~0.11 ships per billion dollars. Of course that isn't how much ships cost, it just shows that I could spend 5 times more on ships and still be within the realms of realism.

So the United States Navy out-spends and out-numbers me on a per-capita basis, my numbers are only large because my population is large. You'd better ring the US Department of Defense and tell them they're godmoding.

(If anything I have lowballed the US figures, as I expect that military spending has risen since 2003.)

I have already have raised my concerns over the lack of realism multiple times in several TG's not all of them even to the Ghothic side.

And I've said something about huge fleets, missile spams, etc etc in other threads not even related to this one.

Including the NS population which is the biggest wank factor on NS. Which is why I capped my population at around 600 million-1 billion tops and that's pushing it.

Again why I left II for offsite NS rp's is because there isnt any BS massive 4000 ship fleets or carriers carrying 200+ aircraft.

Of course your numbers are going to be lower, since your numbers are coming off things based on your population which is already wanked to begin with lol.

I think I am going to leave again as my return was only based on TG's from my regional partners beckoning me to do so.

carriers carrying 200+ aircraft.

Even for a planetary Empire in an Earthlike Jupiter with 20 billions, something like this is totally ridiculous, unfeasible and it has been already proved that anything beyond 100 aircrafts is impractical because of take-off and landing control issues. Of course, on the bright sight it means that one lost carrier would mean a significant loss of aircrafts.

Also, if your cap your population, you shouldn't even have thought about participating of this thread, for obvious reasons. In fact you should have looked for either one of the active "Earths" or for AMW. As for population caps, I don't exactly cap mine in a long-term aspect, I just have to sweep an entire Africa and Europe into anarchism in a future RP to avoid absurd population densities first because I prefer to consider population gains through RPs rather than just time. Of course, I can't RP fast enough conflicts to keep up with excessive daily population growth there.

Gat, the fact of the matter is that those are accurate numbers for a highly militarized nation of his size. What you choose to do is your decision, but please bear in mind that it is your decision. Just because you choose to cap your population doesn't mean that the rest of us have to follow suit.

I'm finding more and more lately that your posts seem to be concerning the perceived "unfairness" of a much larger nation actually going to war with you--let me break it to you--it is unfair. So was America simply brushing the Iraqi Army to the side, but could you imagine Hussein saying, "No fair! You guys have more troops than me!" Of course not. America is a massive and powerful nation, and just as it can afford a larger military-industrial complex, so too can larger NS nations afford larger militaries than those of RL nations.

Including the NS population which is the biggest wank factor on NS. Which is why I capped my population at around 600 million-1 billion tops and that's pushing it.

The NS population figure doesn't pick anyone out, it's perfectly fair. If you want more of a challenge, if you want a limit, then fine, go nuts. But you can't voluntarily handicap yourself and then complain when other people choose not to. I'm not doing anything unusual with my deployment (which isn't even in your direction), I'm just not following the "rules" that you have chosen to apply to yourself.

There are numerous carriers on NS that have upwards of 120 aircraft.

No I don't really care about larger population attacking me etc. I do ask they have some form of realism which 4000 ship navy isn't realistic I'm sorry its not.

When I did rp on II I already went through a similar scenario before moving to the Med where my 800 million nation fought with a 1 billion something pop nation. Reason it worked was because they were realistic and didn't say "I deploy 4 million troops with my 3000 ship fleet and launch three billion missiles at you."


@TSS I left this rp because of the bs numbers, then got swayed back by friends even though I really didnt want to because I find II threads to be like southparks cripple fights. And I am part of several offsite earth rpers which work out very nicely. :)

It may not be realistic in real life, however, it is realistic for NS when you have a nation that size that heavily militarized.

No I don't really care about larger population attacking me etc. I do ask they have some form of realism which 4000 ship navy isn't realistic I'm sorry its not.

When I did rp on II I already went through a similar scenario before moving to the Med where my 800 million nation fought with a 1 billion something pop nation. Reason it worked was because they were realistic and didn't say "I deploy 4 million troops with my 3000 ship fleet and launch three billion missiles at you."


None of us are doing anything you can't do, those of us who are bigger are just doing it more.

Which is why Im going back to my offsite earth rps were people actually use a bit of realisitc ideals and common sense.

A 4000 ship navy is realistic for a huge population and tbh, by focusing most on Navy as Third Spanish States is an island(but having a quite manpower-limited army on the other hand), its Navy, despite having only 300 millions inhabitants, totals 1239 combat, amphibious and mine warfare vessels. What isn't realistic is to be able to deploy half of a Navy at once through foreign oceans due to something called logistics, unless one is ready to make serious sacrifices in national economy for the sake of the war. The logistical difficulties of England during the Falklands Wars are a good example of this.

A 4000 ship navy is realistic for a huge population and tbh, by focusing most on Navy as Third Spanish States is an island(but having a quite manpower-limited army on the other hand), its Navy, despite having only 300 millions inhabitants, totals 1239 combat, amphibious and mine warfare vessels. What isn't realistic is to be able to deploy half of a Navy at once through foreign oceans due to something called logistics, unless one is ready to make serious sacrifices in national economy for the sake of the war.

No one rps logistics on II lol otherwise no one would fire off thousands of missiles in one naval engagement, another reason I spend more time offsite.

Also no one would sail millions of troops to far off regions if they rped logistics, it'd cost too much and lead to running out of supplies too quickly. Only realistic way to deploy that many troops is if its in the same general region like when the US and UK invaded Normandy that was phesiable. Or you need an ally where you can consolidate forces like the US did when it sent troops to the UK.

Which is why Im going back to my offsite earth rps were people actually use a bit of realisitc ideals and common sense.

Then leave the RP and leave the Mediterranica as whole. Hell, leave NS! No one will miss you.

Pretty much everyone RPs logistics. Few people RP them well.

Gataway, I can't believe we're having this discussion yet again...

It's futile to argue against the nature of this game, it really is. NationStates was never meant be to a realism simulator at all, and thank god you weren't here in 2003/2004 when tech levels freely mixed. To sum it up, it was like Black Hawk Down versus Star Wars versus Lord of the Rings all at the same time, and there were never really any complaints because everyone accepted that this is a fictional roleplaying game. If you think several thousand ships is too unrealistic for you, how would you have survived 5 years ago when there were Orcs, starships, excessively massive nuclear warheads, vampires, and other fantastical things freely running about?

Again, this game is not meant to be realistic because if it were, populations would only go as high as the millions, not billions. All NationStates is is a rough representation of the real world but at a much larger scale, meaning that instead of dealing with managable numbers by today's standards, we're simply adding extra zeros at the end. The principles of modern warfare all apply in NS MT roleplay, so any RP'er worth his salt will have no problem dealing with large numbers of anything. I've been in situations where 100 soldiers of mine decimated a force of 10,000 and sustained minimal losses, because I used superior tactics.

Truth be told, those on the Gholgoth side are being quite modest with their deployments considering we're invading a region which appears to be roughly the size of modern day Earth. There are plenty of your friends in Haven which RP with 10 to 20,000 ships in their navy, and many other people on II maintain large fleets, air forces, and armies. But again I go back to what I said earlier about scale. 260 ships is acceptable in real life terms, and Agrandov's 2600 is more than acceptable in NS terms because the scale is ramped up so much.

Throughout this entire RP you've complained about this and dropped an ignore at least twice from what I remember. I get the impression you're only doing this because perhaps you realize that the chances of winning are less than what you thought they would be. You got into this RP knowing that you would be facing some of THE most militarized modern tech nations in the game, and it's more than a little frustrating to see you complain about and argue against the entire nature of NationStates because things don't seem 'fair' to you. It's never fair when a larger force imposes its will on a smaller one. It's never fair when a technologically superior army trounces a lesser equipped one. It's never fair when someone has to be on the 'losing' side in NS, but if you want realism then you need to understand that real life is just as unfair.

If you want to leave the RP and even NS, then feel free. I don't think the entire RP community is going to change the nature of the game because you think it's wank. This game is what it is; fiction, fantasy, make believe. You either have to accept that, or move on.

Again with the "I won't win" crap lol you guys kill me. literally. Especially with your superiority complex.

I rp offsite and fight with nations whom are considerably larger than me and don't have issues.

I have yet to see someone actually rp logistics on II Lei. Logistically you wouldn't fire off a slavo of 10,000 missiles as they aren't cheap and numerous other factors.

Having 4 million men at sea for any length of time would eat up supplies in days unless you don't feed them or give them fresh water for days. Then they wouldn't be putting up much of a fight whenever they got where they were going.

Ag deployed some 2000 ships not one of them is a supply ship or even capable of carrying enough supplies to carry supplies for the ships crew plus the million man invasion force.

Then leave the RP and leave the Mediterranica as whole. Hell, leave NS! No one will miss you.

Sorry Greston I'm not hurt. As I've said before if anything anyone says to you over the Internet offends you in that where you become emotionally upset to where "No one likes me" kinda way then you should unplug your Internet connection or whatever your using and not get on it again.

I RP logistics to the point rarely a deployment will get past 5% of the total naval strength of mine. In fact, "being outnumbered" is one of the first things their soldiers are told to expect, and trained to overcome, because they prefer to preserve manpower and to achieve victories with excellence rather than hordes of redshirts. Tbh though I rarely mention it detailedly(in some of my RPs I don't even give exact numbers of the forces I'm deploying) because I'm more worried about having a good, well-written story of war than about technical details and the emphasis I put on characters naturally de-emphasizes technicalities.

Sorry Greston I'm not hurt. As I've said before if anything anyone says to you over the Internet offends you in that where you become emotionally upset to where "No one likes me" kinda way then you should unplug your Internet connection or whatever your using and not get on it again.

Oh, how cute. I guess I do have an emotion complex, I am just so harmed that you are making fun of me. Perhaps I should go to my room and sulk in my pillow because what you said was just so harsh. I'm just soooooo depressed, I don't know I can stand everyone on NS hating me! Maybe I should leave it and smash my computer.

I simply stated my personal stance on those who get emotionally upset by something said to them by an anonymous person (on the other side of the world maybe) who knows nothing about them in real life.

I don't see how that was making fun of you, but okay. I apologize then.

Again with the "I won't win" crap lol you guys kill me. literally. Especially with your superiority complex.

It has nothing to do with a 'superiority complex' (which I do not have), it has everything to do with the impression you're giving off.

I rp offsite and fight with nations whom are considerably larger than me and don't have issues.

Then I'm sort of at a loss as to why you're having so many issues here.

I have yet to see someone actually rp logistics on II Lei. Logistically you wouldn't fire off a slavo of 10,000 missiles as they aren't cheap and numerous other factors.

You're looking at one person that does. And I don't see anyone firing off salvos of 10,000 missiles in this war, so I fail to see how this example is relevant to the current RP.

Having 4 million men at sea for any length of time would eat up supplies in days unless you don't feed them or give them fresh water for days. Then they wouldn't be putting up much of a fight whenever they got where they were going.

Pray tell, who has 4 million men at sea? Certainly isn't me, or anyone else on the Gholgoth side. While I tend to mobilize large numbers of troops, I never actually deploy anything more than one to two hundred thousand depending on the situation.

Ag deployed some 2000 ships not one of them is a supply ship or even capable of carrying enough supplies to carry supplies for the ships crew plus the million man invasion force.

You're assuming Agrandov is too stupid to bring any supply ships, which is unfair to him since he is a competant RPer. I myself have RP'd additional supplies being sent from Gholgoth, and using local supplies from Vetalia and Greston, our forces will be well taken care of.

Look at some of the numbers being tossed around during World War 2, and get some perspective. I don't think any of us have done anything to cross the threshold into godmodding because of the increased scale of NS.

If they aren't rped they technically aren't there now are they? I mean on my earth rps we have to rp our complete ORBAT including the number of supply vessels coming along otherwise how would I if I chose to target supply ships have any idea of how much force to try and hit supply lines with?

He could have 100 or 10,000 now since I have no idea because he didn't say.

Hell the way that works he technically would have endless supplies since there would be no way to tell what effect losing 10 ships or 100 ships would have. Since its just assumed he brought some with him.

I wasn't calling him stupid please don't put words in my mouth I pointed out a fact there's no supply ships but he does mention some million man invasion force with his combined fleet. If that's not your intent fine but it came off that way to me.

If they aren't rped they technically aren't there now are they?

Damn, so the last events of my war RP/story were fought between at most 4-men squads, each of them thus becoming an "One man's army", and a few half-dozens of tanks.

Ag deployed some 2000 ships not one of them is a supply ship or even capable of carrying enough supplies to carry supplies for the ships crew plus the million man invasion force.

I have my logistics numbers worked out, I simply chose not to share them in the post because they're completely irrelevant at this stage. I didn't share my plan either, are you going to assume I don't have one?

No but if your going to have some massive fleet in the region then you should have some sort of display on how they're being supplied.

If they aren't rped they technically aren't there now are they?

If you want to be super technical then yes, but the situation works on the inverse so be careful. I haven't see you RP any of your tanks being deployed, I haven't seen any of your fighters take to the skies, I haven't seen any ships of your navy aside from subs being RP'd, so I suppose by your logic I am free to assume they are not there. Thank you, I should be able to walk to your capital nearly unopposed.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14299675&postcount=96

The artillery includes things like mortar teams etc etc.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14312182&postcount=100

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14043665&postcount=39

There you go. The only forces I have "out and about" are subs correct. Everything else is situated in the homeland just waiting.

Damn, so the last events of my war RP/story were fought between at most 4-men squads, each of them thus becoming an "One man's army", and a few half-dozens of tanks.

If your forces are deployed outside your own territory you should have some manner described or what not of how they are being sustained. One should not just assume they are constantly getting supplies.

I don't care about victory or defeat. I care about making an entertaining and compelling story about wars and ideals. I never saw ORBATS in the war fictions I did read, and I really don't believe they would make them better, or for the sake, that they would make a roleplay better, for a freeform roleplay is closer to collaborative storywriting than to a board game with rules and clear goals to win or lose. Describing a war like a man moving large amounts of chess pieces isn't particularly immersive, and thus I prefer to stick with singular sectors of fronts seen from the eyes of a single or of a few combatants, coupled with their fears, sensations, thoughts and emotions, rather than with a cold bird's eye point of view where each death is truly nothing but an statistic.

*Edit: Because between "Post ORBATS, move pieces" and the example below, I prefer the example below, even though it does not describe precisely the logistics behind everything, or every single movement done by every single squad and small unit in the involved division. But again, most don't even describe the actions of a single squad, and sometimes not even of a single division, just the bigger picture.

Rafael simply came to the limits, running as fast as he could, ignoring everything else in his running spree. His muscles were straining due to the heavy effort, and the burden of his backpack became heavier. Stepping heavily into the immediately displaced grass, he did not pay attention to anything, focusing all his mind into the singular act of sprinting. The partly uneven terrain was no concern, and a few seconds after the safety of the grassland was gone, he could barely notice as artillery shells pounded nearby due to his concentration, as part of the suppressive fire effort. He ran nevertheless, aware of his vulnerable condition, and panting, he saw as there were only twenty meters towards the cover of stone. It was then that he heard the sound of gunfire nearby, but could not waste time trying to locate its source. Suddenly he could swear that a bullet came very close as he could heard it, yet fortunately he was very close to cover. With no time to waste, Rafael simply threw himself towards the back side of the stone with a leap, and almost immediately he noticed as particles of stone were unleashed by the fire of a machinegun, and as tracers quickly flew overhead. It was just in time, and the suppressive fire continued to come, nearly deafening, making any attempt to take a peak out of the cover suicidal.

Going in a completely technical manner in my RPs would certainly be easier for me and prevent many of the writer's block I have. But it doesn't seem fulfilling or interesting for me to write, nor for me to read.

My point here is, don't be so nitpicky about other people's posts when yours are more than lacking in quality. Everyone else in this thread on both sides has been making posts of decent length and quality which contain several paragraphs, while yours are merely several sentences (all less than a dozen) in length. There is nothing more frustrating than typing a long post containing several decent paragraphs and a fair amount of detail, only to have it criticized by someone whos typical post averages a single paragraph. Until you start posting on a level consistant with the other RP'ers in this thread, I don't think anyone is going to take your grievances all that seriously.

Just a word of advice...

gee anyone would think we are at war with one another!!

Seriously though, you can't really complain Gat. The entire NS RP world (and the NS game itself) is designed to be exaggerated and excessive. This is the very reasoning given somewhere in all the NS FAQ's about why the issues are all so extreme in their choices (yes I have actually read those, don't know why I ever did though really, must have been bored). You cant expect anyone in a game with populations in the billions to play by rules where they have to limit their populations etc.

As for logistics, a fair enough point, but most people dont put emphasis on this in posts, after all it is fairly boring. Who wants to write long details about the big transport ships moving food around 100km to the rear of the advance when you can write about your shiny new warship. Regardless though if they haven't included anything about logistics then just ask them if they can add some details for reference. No need to argue about anything.

My point here is, don't be so nitpicky about other people's posts when yours are more than lacking in quality. Everyone else in this thread on both sides has been making posts of decent length and quality which contain several paragraphs, while yours are merely several sentences (all less than a dozen) in length. There is nothing more frustrating than typing a long post containing several decent paragraphs and a fair amount of detail, only to have it criticized by someone whos typical post averages a single paragraph. Until you start posting on a level consistant with the other RP'ers in this thread, I don't think anyone is going to take your grievances all that seriously.

Just a word of advice...

Wow my posts aren't long enough so don't take me serious. You never fail to entertain me with your "words of advice" and i use that loosely.

Perhaps if I didn't have more important things to do I would waist my time posting on a forum all day or night.

But you know I have counseling statements to type up, and get signed. I have leave paper work to process for my soldiers under me. I have NCODP's that I have to go to. Extra duty watch, CQ, and Battallion or Brigade staff duty. Along with POV inspections, layouts, inventories, and anything else my section sergant or Warrant task me out to do.

I work from 0500 to 1900-2000 (thats from 5am to 7 or 8pm for those who don't know military time.) And if I have CQ or staff duty or extra duty watch then Im working from 0500-000 for extra duty or 0500-0900 for staff duty.

Along with all that attempting to have a social life away from a computer screen when I'm not deployed overseas.

Sorry if putting lengthy posts up for you to be on "your level of rp" isn't one of my priorities at all. But i have a life with more important things to entertain than some people who live on forums.

And you don't really have to rp supply ships if you made an orbat with numbers in it in the ooc thread. I mean thats what we do offsite and it works nicely.

Occasionally you'd mention some supplies coming in or perhaps have a convoy of supplies get ambushed anything really. Doesn't have to be drab but I guess you guys didn't think that way.

Then you should write your RP posts gradually using a text editor rather than at once, even if that leads you to post only once a week, or even once every two weeks. Quantity of posts isn't better than quality.

The point you so clearly missed Gat is that you have no right to criticize someone else's post(s) for not being detailed enough when it comes to supply chains when yours are completely lacking in any. That's called hypocrisy.

And your little snipe about me not having a life is uncalled for. I have a 40 hour a week job, a part time job refereeing paintball, a band that practices twice a week and performs at least once a week, promotion for said band which is gaining worldwide recognition, a girlfriend who has 2 kids, all while attemting to have a social life and still fulfill my commitments here. I don't sit on the internet all day, my time is extremely valuable so when I put in the effort to type up a decent post, the last thing I want to see is someone who posts a few sentences going on a tirade about the 'lack of detail'.

Don't demand things out of people if you can't do it yourself. Put up or shut up, the old saying goes. If this RP is too taxing for your schedule, then perhaps you should consider leaving it.

Attention all participants:
Holiday slowdown has arrived, I am officially involved.

I'm going to let Greston and perhaps Uiri get in a post before I put mine up, I don't want them to fall behind.

Just an update.

Gataway is now my colony permanently. I won't be combining populations or anything like that. I am interested in keeping rp ties and such open since it is my understanding Gataway was a major regional influence in Mediterranica.

Anyone in the region interested in establishing ties with the new government please TG me.

As AMF ignores Haven I will not be attempting to participate in the conflict at all. In stead all of Gataway's actions, deployments shall be retconned and the large Ghothic fleets shall be non-existent to my new found colonial state.

As for alliances/agreements all open IC agreements will stay in place. Secretive agreements of course will now be void.

I was going to say that since Gataway is clearly gone, I'm going to focus my attention on the West Ponente colonies. And since the new owner of Gataway is apparently ignoring the invasion, that still holds true. So hopefully now we can keep things moving again.

Then to battle!!!

I was going to say that since Gataway is clearly gone, I'm going to focus my attention on the West Ponente colonies. And since the new owner of Gataway is apparently ignoring the invasion, that still holds true. So hopefully now we can keep things moving again.

It was more along the lines that since the invading parties are Ghothic and I am a Havenite. Which by my understanding gholgoth doesn't exist to me and I don't exist to gholgoth.

So my nonexistant colony would be getting invaded by nonexistant armies, which doesn't make any kind of sense.

Further I would gladly acknowledge the invasion. However this would lead to a regional conflict between the two of us, and by the looks of things that would be a very bad idea.

In the interests of keeping things somewhat balanced since Gataway was a large and stable contributer to the Mediterranica if both sides agree I would turn over "command" of my colonial armies to a Mediterranican nation and acknowledge the proceedings of the rp after the fact.

The only catch would be that whomever I left in charge would have to be willing to agree to terms or offer terms which I either agreed to or proposed.

For example say I leave Aschenhyrst in charge, things start to go sour and AMF offers another Ultimatum. I would tell Aschenhyrst to agree to the terms and whatever the terms included would be reflected on the colonial territory.

I understand that Unker`s offer to me is an example only. I prefer that my neighbor/ally be under someone`s administration but mine, someone friendly that is.

AMF and Goth leadership: Scuttlebutt is your side wants to wrap this up soon.
Any truth to this?
If so, can we discuss details in private?
Anyone with answers feel free to TG me.

Things have finally settled down in my life, so now I have time to post. I just put one up, sorry for the delay. It's amazing how quickly life can shit all over you when things are going so well...

Understood. Just heard on our end you guys wanted to wrap up. Then we became confused as Havenites began posting, we understood you were ignoring each other. It was time to step back and see what happens.

Pussed out of what? I went to the field and AMF won't let Unker rp as me because he's from Haven. Not my fault Gholgoth follows AMF like a bunch of frat pledges.

First off, you should have posted this here in the OOC thread. Second, your snipe at the others in Gholgoth is so absurd that it doesn't even warrant a real response. I would love for you to show me where I've told Unker he cannot RP as Gataway in the war, because thus far *he's* been the one that said he won't participate in the RP because of the Haven business.

Unkerlantum, if you want to RP as Gataway then all you have to do is say so.

Gataway, I think it's time you just moved on, I don't think anyone takes you seriously anymore.

What's going on? Should I post?

Yeah, this thing seems to be kinda frozen...it's West Ponente's move.

Yeah, the ball is currently in Med's court. Feel free to post Uiri.

Hey, whats going on at the moment. Is it still WP's move. I thought I saw a post from him in the thread but that may have been an older one.

In the interests of moving things along and getting the ball rolling again, if any of the Gholgoth sides want to invade Valeon through Vetalia or however really go for it. I just think its time we got this going again somehow

I just noticed that he edited in a post, I'll get a reply up shortly.

Are we continuing the fight in "Angels...." or in the new "Dreadfire....." thread?

Just looking for clarification as this all wraps up.

I would say so yes, since the Dreadfire thread is just an announcement for a peace attempt and such. If no one accepts the offer, the fighting would continue in Angels, I'd say.

announcement for a peace attempt

Surely... surely. "Surrender or die" is a nice way to seek peace.

Unless you meant "peace" like in Pax Romana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Romana)

I can't imagine how that was an attempt for peace. Submission, fine.

Arguing over the semantics of Gholgoth's offer seems kind of pointless. Also, I don't want to put more on WP's plate if he's busy but I'm still waiting for any kind of signal, whether post or TG or anything, for me to go ahead. My side of things seems to have stalled.

I really need to hear something from West Ponente. It's been a month since he's posted anything at all, and that post was a tiny blurb that didn't even note the fact that I'm attacking Nuevo Italia. I'm going to have to assume he's left as well if he doesn't post sometime in the near future.

there won't be that much peace in Mediterranica, I'm moving in you know.

So, what are the chances that this war will spill over to Greater Díenstad (that is, the invasion of Lord Sumguy)? That could be a very good war. Note that the OOC answer will have no implication towards our current role in the Mediterranica conflict (and neither would it IC; almost all the nations in GD are isolationist).

lol boring region isolationists *sinks GD Lusitania's with ships bearing other nations flags*

So, what are the chances that this war will spill over to Greater Díenstad (that is, the invasion of Lord Sumguy)? That could be a very good war. Note that the OOC answer will have no implication towards our current role in the Mediterranica conflict (and neither would it IC; almost all the nations in GD are isolationist).

There are no hostilities between me and the newfangled Vorgothic Empire at the present time, so at the moment such chances seem rather small, though I do quite like the idea.

I really need to hear something from West Ponente. It's been a month since he's posted anything at all, and that post was a tiny blurb that didn't even note the fact that I'm attacking Nuevo Italia. I'm going to have to assume he's left as well if he doesn't post sometime in the near future.

I think he mentioned pc troubles or something. We havent heard much of anything of him in a while either

So, what are the chances that this war will spill over to Greater Díenstad (that is, the invasion of Lord Sumguy)? That could be a very good war. Note that the OOC answer will have no implication towards our current role in the Mediterranica conflict (and neither would it IC; almost all the nations in GD are isolationist).

Erid Lor pledged assistance to Waldenburg in the other thread I believe, so that could potentially lead to something

So, what are the chances that this war will spill over to Greater Díenstad (that is, the invasion of Lord Sumguy)? That could be a very good war. Note that the OOC answer will have no implication towards our current role in the Mediterranica conflict (and neither would it IC; almost all the nations in GD are isolationist).

Seeing as Gholgoth is on good terms with the Fedala Accord, we would likely use diplomatic means to deal with Lord Sumguy out of respect. However, whatever imposing forces that are in or are currently being sent to Mediterranica will most likely be hunted down regardless of origin, since we are now trying to put an end to fighting within the region. Wether offensive retalliatory strikes will happen outside Mediterranica or not is yet to be determined, but I would think that ICly it would be in the best interests of the Fedala Accord to try and put a leash on trouble makers in Greater Dienstad, since we have good relations and all.

Concerning West Ponente, seeing as he is unable to post I am most likely going to ignore him (nothing personal). Waiting for him to post is bogging me down, as well as Warmaster and The Silver Sky.

To be honest, most nations within Greater Dienstad and the FA view Gholgoth as rivals and potential hostile states, I'm not sure where this 'friendly relations' view comes from.

AMF, Warmaster, The Silver Sky, and Thrashia need to post in the First Impressions of June Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=594039). It's a little diplomatic thing at the moment and I'd like to have the leading generals you deployed come to visit Greston.

To be honest, most nations within Greater Dienstad and the FA view Gholgoth as rivals and potential hostile states, I'm not sure where this 'friendly relations' view comes from.

Then that's certainly news to me, because after Macabees left NATO on good terms and started up the FA, we made it a point to keep those relations intact. AMF still sees The Macabees as a sound ally.

Then that's certainly news to me, because after Macabees left NATO on good terms and started up the FA, we made it a point to keep those relations intact. AMF still sees The Macabees as a sound ally.

Well, friendships tend to fade when entities become barriers to each others power potential, or when either sees the other as being far too aggressive or expansionist. The USA and USSR are prime examples of such an occurrence.

I agree that there is no belligerence between the Second Empire and Automagfreek. As aforementioned, the Second Empire was a former member of NATO and there have been no events which could have catalyzed the Second Empire to take a belligerent stance. It is true that the Second Empire can be considered jealous at the prospect of Gholgoth's increase in influence through the war with the region of Mediterranica, but as of yet it would never conceive a war with Gholgoth over the matter.

However, I would not go as far as to use the blanket term "ally". In a war against an entity like the KGP, or something like that, then yes, the Second Empire would probably consider itself an ally of Gholgoth and Automagfreek. But, I'd like to think that a sort of rivalry has come into existence since we left NATO and founded the FA. In fact, we left NATO because we felt that our goals were no longer compatible and we were being restrained from our potential to become a world power (apart from the fact that we also felt NATO was jeopardizing our security). In a certain respect, the FA was founded as a direct rival of both the KGP and NATO. The ambition was to make the FA a premier international alliance (which it is in certain respects, although it has not made a very big international impression).

But, generally, no, I do not think that an arbitrary war between Gholgoth and the FA is "realistic" (at least, in terms of matching current political events). I do think that Gholgoth's war with Mediterranica has severely strained relations. But, obviously not enough to where the Empire would consider itself an enemy. It's just not as friendly as perhaps it might have been at one point. Like I said, there are circumstances which we would consider ourselves allies of Automagfreek.

However, the relationship is at a point where if Gholgoth did invade a nation in Greater Díenstad then the Second Empire would declare war. Please, don't take this as a threat. I am not trying to dissuade you guys from anything, or say, "Don't do this or else!" In fact, I'd welcome an invasion purely out of the role-play it's bound to create. I'm simply giving the Empire's perspective on its relationship with Automagfreek.

But, I am fairly certain that if I invaded a nation in Gholgoth then Automagfreek would do the same. In that sense, we are not allied to the extent where it would dissuade us from attempting to gain influence in each other's regions. That is, neither of us operate under the veil that we would not war each other if we fought in each other's regions of influence.

I'd say that's a fair assessment, Macabees. Vorgoth has no intentions of operating with the FA's sphere of influence, and I'd like to point out to the other parties here that not all rivalries have to be bloody. I doubt Vorgoth would be too concerned if the FA decided to increase its own influence abroad, since, as you said, there have been no events that have transpired which would lead to war. If anything, I'd imagine those in our camp would use this opportunity to reaffirm our commitment to peace with the FA and Greater Dienstad, since again, as you said there circumstances in which we would directly come to your aid if called upon.

It's fairly obvious that there are those in GD that are attempting to stir up a conflict with Vorgoth, but I can say with some confidence that I doubt there will be any direct incursions into GD as a result of what's currently happening. Gholgoth is attempting to shore up the Med and begin rebuilding and whatnot, so we're likely to take a stance of "kill all intruders that are sent to the Med until they stop coming". I certainly would imagine that similar steps would be taken if Goths were stomping around the FA's/GD's new backyard. Like I said in my last post, I would think it would be in the FA's interests to not have those inside Greater Dienstad goad Vorgoth into a confrontation, since that is something neither side wants.

With respect to Waldenburg ICly, I get the impression that some in GD are trying to use a Gothic retalliatory strike against him as a casus belli. It should be noted though that Waldenburg has attacked Yallak (which is a member of Vorgoth), and it should come as no surprise to anyone when we respond.

If there's no direct incursions into GD that I doubt many nations within the region would mobilize. TPF included.

I know many of us want a war for the role-play aspect but ICly speaking it is unlikely that we would fight without a direct incursion.

And regardless, it's highly likely we'll end up collaborating with Gholgoth regardless, especially if we get Britzikum, Valeon, and Ismathia under our possession. Our country is basically the Quisling regime of Mediterranica, so our neighbors should expect we'll act in line with the wishes of Gholgoth and our responsibilities within Vorgoth.

You wish you could get you gruby fingers on Valeon. Not going to happen!! :)

Attacking Isthmatia violates my neutrality and will warrant a miltary response.

Attacking Isthmatia violates my neutrality and will warrant a miltary response.

That it does...;)

That it does...;)

and it shall.:p

*watching*

I just thought I'd say that once I get a reply from Lyran Arms Storefront I will deploy (as it will mean I have the equipment I need).

Just mentioning, I have Mercenaries deployed to Waldenberg 2, employed by LS, not in any way associated with Greal. (Except their nationalities which are mostly Greali)

Greal however will be sending deployments to Aschenhyrst. Post coming soon.

In reply to AMF`s ooc ending on post in main thread
West Ponente is having PC troubles and has limited access right now. He checked in from work or a friend`s computer the other day. He is unsure when he`ll be back up and running.

Greal: Reinforcements welcomed.

AMF, I've been at war with Waldenburg for some time now, and I have men ashore -- if you try to lock down the region to prevent my supply ships and further naval reinforcements from reaching Waldenburg, I'm going to declare war on you.

...as unthreatening as that sounds, I suppose.

Asch: Ok, I'll talk to him once he's up and running and work a little fluid time so he can finish.

Leistung: Not that that would deter AMF in any way ICly. As stated in my message to Anagonia (secret IC to him only), those fighting Waldenburg will be allowed to do so provided they do not occupy post war. As warriors the Freeks would not deprive another of their glory on the battlefield, so as long as our affairs are not interfered with, there should be no problems.

Ah, excellent! Sorry, I must have missed that particular bit. Since this is something your navy would presumably know ICly, don't come within one nautical mile of my convoys or, erm, I'll be forced to level more hollow threats. And maybe you'll lose a few destroyers in the process, mmm? *nudges*

Gosh...

Anyway, speaking as the last active thorn in the side, and ultimately confused since the various retcons, delays ect. Could I ask the approximate number of Gothic forces? And their location so I can do some of that afore mentioned misbehaving? With due digression to any secret plans going about of your's naturally.

AMF and Warmaster I apologize for the further delays, but as you have heard I am experiencing technical difficulties. I'll try and do the best i can to finish this business up.

Until further notice my attendance will be spotty. It`s planting season here and I need the work. I still plan on participating but may only be able to check in twice a week at best. Any action requiring a reasonably quick response from me should be brought to my attention via TG. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Sorry I haven't posted, things have been super busy with work and with the band. After our album is released this Friday we're doing a little mini tri-state tour, so after that I'll have time to get something up.

With that, AMF, I'll have to pull out of the thread unless one of you Ghothic guys, and you AMF, get a post up in the "First Impressions of June" thread. My government is basing its decisions on if you attend the meeting or not.

I know, but everyone is going to have to be patient. Once this tour is out of the way I'll have time to put a post up.

Jeez, every time this thing gets going something happens.
AMF`s on tour.
WP`s PC takes a crap.
My PC gets zapped by lightning and I`m working two jobs.

This thing has dragged on longer that the first Gulf War did in RL. Regardless, let`s finish the game.

Well you could all just surrender to me??!! :)

lol, I figured this was done. I mean, I'm not RPing troops over there anymore...

It's not actually done, Leis, there is this thing called patience. The Med waited when I had school work, I waited when Asch was working two jobs, AMF waited when WP's PC exploded, now we have to wait as AMF is on tour.

lol, I figured this was done. I mean, I'm not RPing troops over there anymore...

Don't you have a pile o'soldiers and ships near Waldenburg?

Don't you have a pile o'soldiers and ships near Waldenburg?

I have a large pile of them in and around Waldenburg, Lei has a smaller pile.

It's not actually done, Leis, there is this thing called patience. The Med waited when I had school work, I waited when Asch was working two jobs, AMF waited when WP's PC exploded, now we have to wait as AMF is on tour.

Don`t forget my PC exploding too!

I'm thinking that considering the large amount of IC resources that I have invested in this RP, and the long length of time that it is taking to unfold, that I will be fluidtiming this to be happening after any other RP's I may do within the next month or so. Such is to prevent a loss of RP flexibility on my part.

Please inform me if any object to this.

Fine by me

It's not actually done, Leis, there is this thing called patience. The Med waited when I had school work, I waited when Asch was working two jobs, AMF waited when WP's PC exploded, now we have to wait as AMF is on tour.

Waiting is one thing, but it's been a month. My entire nation was geared up for the Waldenburg war, and my part in it is, in the eyes of my populace, finished. There's no reason for me to stay in Waldenburg indefinitely if the Church is no longer in power, and honestly, there's other things I'd rather be doing with my soldiers than waiting...

I think the best move for me would be to fluidtime this, but I really hate messing with timelines like that. I won't send my troops anywhere in the meantime, but please, I have limits on how long I'm going to wait for a post...