NationStates Jolt Archive

What ever happened to the good old glory days of war, when honor and great military strategy ruled the battlefield? When cavalry was the pride and fear of armies around the world, when the most advanced technology was nothing more then a cannon and nothing was controlled by a button or machine. Where did the large columns of men marching and the standards of one regiment and country meant the live and death of any and all men of that regiment and the capture of one gave one status among his peers and commanders?

I want to do a Napoleonic-era war RP.

The question is, and one that I throw out to my fellow RPers who want to par-take in this RP, how shall we do this?

Options;

1) We as a group decide to make a single army size and each get the same. Of course units and such, command and the influence (British, French, Russian etc.) will differ. Then a map can be drawn up to each persons specifications some nations on islands, others on a mainland continent. Then battles will be decided on RP skill and battlefield tactics, everyone understanding that limitations that a battlefield has (Ex. The prized cavalry can’t just appear out of nowhere and destroy an open lined formation of infantry, and a regiment can’t form square on short notice.)

This is my idea but I want more ideas as well. On the note of my idea, each nation should be given 2-3 armies the size of Napoleon (73 000) or Wellington (67 000) at Waterloo. It would be up to the user if they want to group them together under one commander but understand the limitations that you wouldn’t be able to support the army in one area for too long before food became an issue, not to mention the borders that need protecting.

Another question is would we rather use real nations or our own? Probably our own or new ones.

This is open for discussion and open for committed RPers. This would be much like a region as multiple campaigns may be going at once. You could say like a NS World.

Nations Interested:

Delesa
Angermanland
Shakal -MIA
Fordock
Gurguvungunit - MIA
Terror Incognitia
Rechburg
Maldorians
Kronstadtia
Barkozy

Links:
Factbooks Link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=540050)

IC Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13118287#post13118287)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=60011&d=1191889428

I'm interested.

actually did something a bit like this once before. used a points setup arrangement. [which, admittedly, had some quirks and flaws]


could have been really, really good... 'cept we all ended up in a diplomatic deadlock then it died over Christmas because almost everyone went away.

i could find some links for you if you like.

using our own nations [population suitably modified] would be best.. given that you're not really allowed to, under forum rules, use historic nations as they actually were.

if you are [or can find] a decent [or better] reliable cartographer, you'd be Amazed how much easier that makes life.

as do maps with actual Borders rather than just labels in the general vicinity of the territory belonging to a given person [you've got no idea how much those kinds of maps bug me :D]

*thinks* also, arguably, the most advanced tech available in a Napoleonic era situation [well, a little way in at a least] is a steam ship. railroads and factories aren't around yet, but someone proposed such a thing to napoleon. he wasn't particularly impressed, but *shrugs*

also muzzle loading rifles [Really slow to load. good range and accuracy though.]

both of which, i Think are more 'advanced' than cannon.

oh, really basic grenades are around as well... but... they'd mostly been given up on at this point due to having to get into musket range to use them, or some such. not enough range, rate of fire, or reliability, i guess. also dragoons in Napoleonic are simply cavalry, where as before or after they were just as capable of dismounting and fighting as infantry [actually, late/post Napoleonic, the Russians systematically replaced most of their dragoons with mounted rifles or lancers. hehe.]

yah. my thoughts.

I'd be especially happy if it managed to be ongoing. my nation doesn't have a cohesive history yet because every RP has failed before getting anywhere [combined with different limitations on tech/location and a tendency to play earths, anyway. ]

Napoleon is my favorite general and I unofficially study this age. I would love to do this but I think it should be confined to a campaign so that the Diplomacy is eliminated as this makes it simpler for all. If so I think it might be best to either take it back to 1750 or advance to 1850. I also have a defined period so I can just use that. My History is written out on my wiki page.

Im in, but like Anger said, NS nations on a random map of doom (Which i COULD make, but it would be a real map all mishapen to hell and back). I would say however, that pop should go by no math calculation or what have you. The best is common sense, in 1800 countries had like 15 million people or so.

@Fod: I also like the campaign idea, helps things go faster.

I would be interested and I think a campaign style would be best- at least time wise.

not to mention in the 1800s you had France and Britain with huge populations compared to just about anyone else in Europe, even before you counted anyone's extended empires, if memory serves.

and then there are those empires themselves.

[doesn't London alone already have a couple of million + pop by this point?]

also, i don't think much is gained from eliminating diplomacy entirely.

better to have a starting state so there's actually something to work from rather than trying to build up from a 'first contact' situation though.

[i am so mightily Sick of first contacts :S]

on that note, how much technological weirdness would be allowed?

*contemplates his 'works except for one bit of maths we're never going to be able to check, and that might work too' medieval glider bombers, among other things*

Snip

France did had some muzzle loading rifles but Napoleon order them to be taken out for that point of been slow to load

Well, i dont think so anger, since right now london only has like 3 or 4 million ppl. Anyways, I think the diplomacy is ok, to a point, but people are to obsessed with it, like "OMG EMBASSY!" "YAY!" "OMG MARRY INTO MY FAMILY!" and on and on instead of gold old fashioned:

"I desire to crush you and subjugate your land. Therfore you need to be destroyed in a violent many year long war for meager gains to appease the needs of my vain yet headstrong leader of uber mightiness!"

France did had some muzzle loading rifles but Napoleon order them to be taken out for that point of been slow to load

there is no way you can possibly convince me Napoleon told 95% of his men to not fight because there guns loaded to slowly...

there is no way you can possibly convince me Napoleon told 95% of his men to not fight because there guns loaded to slowly...

i've cleared it up with you on MSN but better do it for others

we talking of Rifles like the Baker rifle,not Muskets

Napoleon saw Rilfes as too slow for the Battlefield, but it in skilled hand as the British knew they were good weapon

read too much of Bernard Cornwell Sharpe Series

I'm interested.

actually did something a bit like this once before. used a points setup arrangement. [which, admittedly, had some quirks and flaws]


could have been really, really good... 'cept we all ended up in a diplomatic deadlock then it died over Christmas because almost everyone went away.

i could find some links for you if you like.

using our own nations [population suitably modified] would be best.. given that you're not really allowed to, under forum rules, use historic nations as they actually were.

if you are [or can find] a decent [or better] reliable cartographer, you'd be Amazed how much easier that makes life.

as do maps with actual Borders rather than just labels in the general vicinity of the territory belonging to a given person [you've got no idea how much those kinds of maps bug me :D]

*thinks* also, arguably, the most advanced tech available in a Napoleonic era situation [well, a little way in at a least] is a steam ship. railroads and factories aren't around yet, but someone proposed such a thing to napoleon. he wasn't particularly impressed, but *shrugs*

also muzzle loading rifles [Really slow to load. good range and accuracy though.]

both of which, i Think are more 'advanced' than cannon.

oh, really basic grenades are around as well... but... they'd mostly been given up on at this point due to having to get into musket range to use them, or some such. not enough range, rate of fire, or reliability, i guess. also dragoons in Napoleonic are simply cavalry, where as before or after they were just as capable of dismounting and fighting as infantry [actually, late/post Napoleonic, the Russians systematically replaced most of their dragoons with mounted rifles or lancers. hehe.]

yah. my thoughts.

I'd be especially happy if it managed to be ongoing. my nation doesn't have a cohesive history yet because every RP has failed before getting anywhere [combined with different limitations on tech/location and a tendency to play earths, anyway. ]

Haha yes i know cannons weren't 'new' i was just making a point haha gernades... yes the british stopped the project after a while as theirs proved ineffective, meanwhile the french had cool glass gernades with metal shardes in it. Quite impressive.

And i have gotten quite good at photoshop maps, but strategic maps with army movements and such is a completely different ball game haha.

So you would be interested in joining? And thanks for your input

i've cleared it up with you on MSN but better do it for others

we talking of Rifles like the Baker rifle,not Muskets

Napoleon saw Rilfes as too slow for the Battlefield, but it in skilled hand as the British knew they were good weapon

read too much of Bernard Cornwell Sharpe Series

Amen, sharpe all the way, it is true Napoleon thought rifles too slow, so equipted his skirmishers with the best muskets the french had to offer which was good when the skirmishers of the two armies were close, but at a distance, officers watch out, the green jackets have come!!

I'm lead to believe that Austria had, believe it or not, functional Air rifles that ... they didn't use because they were so impossible to maintain in the field.

as for populations... yeah, I'm probably not right on that, but i do remember France and Britain being pretty big over all.

yah.... "muskets" are smooth bore muzzle loaders. rifled muskets, or muzzle loading rifles, are... well.. muskets... with rifled barrels.

while they load and fire slowly, with a suitably adjusted mentality regarding their use, the ability of the individual soldier to AIM is a huge factor. [as evidenced in the American civil war, where the muzzle loading rifle was the standard infantry weapon, apparently]

as for all those 'diplomacy' threads you see kicking around II totally unrelated to anything ongoing...

that's not really 'diplomacy' so much as 'fluff'.

I'm talking diplomacy such as alliances, trade, and, indeed, "give us what we want or we kill you" type things.

also, Imperial Isa, what made you think i was only talking about France regarding the rifles? the Prussians, Russians, and British all had them, the Portuguese didn't really have rifle units until later, but then they were pretty good too.

and yeah... napoleon gave up on a lot of good ideas because they weren't reliable or proven enough yet.

uniforms are a fun part of Napoleonic stuff... hehehe.

Notice to all, i have put up nations interested in the first post, so please confirm and also state what you may model your nation-army after. And dont worry, we can have multiples of models.

I personally will take the english;
Strong Calvary - Few in numbers and poorly led
Fast Infantry - Few in numbers, fast firing and rifles in some regiments
Grand Navy - Large, and powerful, well lead and feared.
Highlanders! And I may think about using some units like Brunswickers...

also, Imperial Isa, what made you think i was only talking about France regarding the rifles? the Prussians, Russians, and British all had them, the Portuguese didn't really have rifle units until later, but then they were pretty good too.
only two i know most of, i know Portuguese got their ones off the British
and as for Prussians, Russians i never read that they had them

Delesa;13093272']Amen, sharpe all the way, it is true Napoleon thought rifles too slow, so equipted his skirmishers with the best muskets the french had to offer which was good when the skirmishers of the two armies were close, but at a distance, officers watch out, the green jackets have come!!

and Siege guns if i recall right in those book they blocked them with dirt by firing at the Fortifications

French-National Guard :P

Just love those soldiers.

YAY!

I shall model my nation after Prussia, but maybe like some lets say, 40 years earlier if thats ok ill detail it a little.

Being interested you can read about this time period in Fordock (Actually at this time the Reunited States of Force) on our Wiki. In short our military and tech worked like this at the time

Strong Navy (Peninsula)
Little Calvary (Too unreliable and by this period considered way to capitalistic)
Smart Infantry (Infantry in small units trained to take initiative and change plans)
Good Officer Corp (Based on Merit so their tended to be better officers)
Chaotic (Large plans easily break down due to infantry exploiting things that later screw them up)
Lack of Larger Strategic Direction (From the Same as above)
Good Artillery (Highly Valued the ability to kill without risking yourself)
Supply Chain Woes (Quite often the Supply train gets screwed up due to erratic movements or never knowing where the army is.)
Technological (Big believers in the latest technology. Thus all Skirmishers have Rifles and such.)

In short we excel at small unit tactics and Skirmishing but are horrible at long drawn out campaigns especially away from home.

i tend to model my artillery after the Russian arrangements [only without their manufacturing issues, if i can help it]

meaning large batteries with big guns [for their type], and licorns [or unicorn guns. so far as i can tell they're the same thing] rather than howitzers

12pdrs with 20pdr licorns rather than 9-12 pdrs with 9 pdr howitzers, and 2-3 times as numerous as most other army's foot batteries, generally deployed as positional artillery, with improved defense as a result, but basically unable to withdraw tactically, even if that's the best option. [about 12 guns in a battery all up]

horse tends to run to 6-9pdrs with 10pder licorns [instead of the typical 3-6 pdr with 6pdr howitzers], with less cannon to the unit, but still large compared to most people's artillery units.

crews are extremely well trained, but as a result costly and time consuming to replace. as are the guns themselves, actually.

with infantry i think i shall go with my regular infantry being pretty average in size, equipment, training etc.

however, I'm going to do something a bit weird and give my Grenadier [which is a silly name given that they don't use grenades anymore, tend to use muskets, and some of them have swords in melee, depending on which army] type troops rifles and sword bayonets. making up for the slow loading time with good drill, the ability to fire from further away, and preferring melee to the mid range exchange of volleys. fitting of iron sights allowing aiming means that these, what amount to 'above average or better', units can actually Aim too, which makes a huge difference.

my light infantry are going to follow a trick the Russians used [I'll admit, it's not a Good one, but it does provide a reasonably functional screen for minimal resources] where by those most suitable are counted off from the regular soldiery to form screens, rather than being specially trained units. what this means is that, frankly, just about anyone who actually Has proper light troops will do it better, but it Is sufficient to keep enemy skirmishers away from the main unit, if used properly.

cavalry wise I'll take lancers and hussars [or dragoons if i can get away with given them rifles and actually using them in the mounted infantry role].

lancers are all about breaking formations, but horribly vulnerable if you hit them in the flanks, rear, or manage to not die before getting past the point.
I'd give them curasses[sp] too, if i am allowed, making them heavier shock troops, rather than the usual light.

hussars are just bog standard light cavalry. if I'm allowed to use them as mounted rifles, then they become "slightly less effective bog standard light cavalry", who can dismount to be deployed as "slightly less effective than normal" riflemen.

the loss of effectiveness is due to the need to split training, primarily. in return one gets highly mobile, long range, infantry.

at no point will my guys use carbines. until the American civil war and repeating carbines, those things are just a joke. [the repeating ones raise their rate of fire enough to make them worth using]

'course, if there's a problem with any of this, i can change it. it'd be nice if i didn't have to though :)

[should be noted, muskets at the beginning of the Napoleonic era are something like 5 feet long or more, from memory. at some point it was discovered that you could chop a foot or so off the barrel with no effect, at all, other than to make it lighter and more manageable. so it was done.

rifles and carbines are shorter still. (and the British ones at least, the ammo between the two were interchangeable)]

edit:

land emphasisprimarily land based, the navy taking a distinct back seat and being built up only as much as needed for defense. and, umm, actual requirements for that aren't always accurately estimated. typical result being coastal fortresses where possible instead.

large unit tacticslack of real initiative below brigade level

hybrid advancementadvancement based on a combination of merit, social status, and finances (the ability to raise your own troops is worth points here) resulting in the very best officers making it to the top when they otherwise often wouldn't... but also resulting in some absolute Idiots doing the same. as such command ability is Very mixed.

raiders supplies taken from the enemy are worth twice as much as your own, and the angermanland armies act upon this.

grand strategy tendency to focus on the campagine more than the battle, often resulting ina willingness to take higher losses to achieve greater gains, but sometimes the inverse, and an awareness that things that are difficult to replace should not be squandered [read: protect the cannon!]

Everybody it sounds good Angermanland and Fordock, i like your thinking and something tells me this should be a good time :p

Now i think with us four at this time, shall we decide what out map shall look like? My navy being what it is (a navy) i think i would prefer a Peninsula where as my infantry wont have to be shipped everywhere and communication with allies will be better and quicker.

Peninsula War ?

Oh and by the way is 15 million population good for everyone? At say... 15 000 000 x 0.2 = 3 000 000 army/navy max size?

Peninsula War ?

Well we will have to see who fights who? Might be just the Peninsula Campaign in the ????????? War

[NS:]Delesa I was just reading your posts and in overall strategy and such your nation is almost the complete opposite. Be interesting to go in combat. I shall update my wiki page with this info. 15 Million population sounds fine as well.

Delesa;13093325']Well we will have to see who fights who? Might be just the Peninsula Campaign in the ????????? War

indeed

Together or against? And opposite in what means?

Ill model my army:

Cavalry
-Excellent Training
-Few In Number, and I mean few...
-Excellent Equipment
-Very Well Led

Artillery
- Mostly 9lbers
- Well Trained
- Grand Battery Ideal
- Lack Smaller Faster Weapons

Navy
-Size is 10 ships...

Infantry
Line/Light
-Excellent Training
-Very Well Led
-Superior Equipment
-Professional
Grenadiers
-Excellent Training
-Best Leaders
-Superior Equipment
-Professional
-Veteran Troops

Delesa;13093323']Oh and by the way is 15 million population good for everyone? At say... 15 000 000 x 0.2 = 3 000 000 army/navy max size?

NO WAY!

The French at the peak had maybe .5 million men, including Spanish and native forces... remember in ww2 Soviets had like 3 million men, and even then that was already unheard of.

also, umm... 3 million soldiers?

that's not right. 2% is 0.02, not 0.2 so it actually 300 thousand. and even that's possibly too big for the era.

wasn't everyone like, amazed, that napoleon managed to build up an army of some ten thousand men?

admittedly, that may have been just one army in one place, not his entire military, but...

also, umm... 3 million soldiers?

that's not right. 2% is 0.02, not 0.2 so it actually 300 thousand. and even that's possibly too big for the era.

wasn't everyone like, amazed, that napoleon managed to build up an army of some ten thousand men?

admittedly, that may have been just one army in one place, not his entire military, but...

Na, armies were usually 40-80k but that was an entire area, take waterloo as an example, 65k british and allies from all over low countries and such fought 70k french from all over france. and yes on numbers i agree.

Too late to get in on this? I see that the British style of army is already taken, so why not go French, with a bit of Russian thrown in for giggles?

Army
Infantry:
Line/Light/Heavy
-Conscripted
-Ill trained
-Well led
-Very numerous
-Ferociously disciplined

Cavalry:
Heavy/Light/Lance/Dragoon
-Numerous
-Well trained
-Well led
-Poorly mounted

Artillery:
Siege/Field
-Well outfitted
-Numerous
-Poorly led
-Poorly deployed

The Gurguvii strategy of the period involved force marching to positions before the enemy, achieving local superiority in numbers and attacking in large formations (often the three-deep line, which combines the firepower of the line and the momentum of a column), combined with slashing attacks by cavalry and extensive battery fire.

Enemies who face the Gurguvii may expect to be outnumbered, but will almost certainly have the moral advantage. Gurguvii soldiers are poorly trained and are more likely to break under pressure than their opposite numbers, and rely upon intelligent deployment and strength of numbers to overcome opposition.

Navy:
-Small in number
-High quality warships
-Superbly trained gunners
-Low projection capability

Unlike my army, the navy is a professional and highly capable force. Much like the United States of 1812, the Gurguvii Navy is consistently outnumbered and outgunned, but is known to triumph through evasion, commerce raiding and superb shiphandling. It will have difficulty retaining control of the seas or breaking out of harbour, but once at sea its ships will consistently seek orphaned enemy frigates or lone merchant ships for immediate seizure.

I don't know how much time I'll have in the next few days, I might not be online at all in the near future and so may fall out of the RP. I'll try to keep you guys posted.

Being interested you can read about this time period in Fordock (Actually at this time the Reunited States of Force) on our Wiki. In short our military and tech worked like this at the time

Strong Navy (Peninsula)
Little Calvary (Too unreliable and by this period considered way to capitalistic)
Smart Infantry (Infantry in small units trained to take initiative and change plans)
Good Officer Corp (Based on Merit so their tended to be better officers)
Chaotic (Large plans easily break down due to infantry exploiting things that later screw them up)
Lack of Larger Strategic Direction (From the Same as above)
Good Artillery (Highly Valued the ability to kill without risking yourself)
Supply Chain Woes (Quite often the Supply train gets screwed up due to erratic movements or never knowing where the army is.)
Technological (Big believers in the latest technology. Thus all Skirmishers have Rifles and such.)

Army


Light Infantry - The best unit in the Reunited states of Force's Army. They are able to think and act individually and are very effective in "dirty tactics" which the rest of the nation ignores. This includes placing explosives in the field and also intentionally targeting enemy leaders. Armed with rifles.

Line Infantry - Generally good in small tactical groups. Not the best for standard tactics as their individualistic tendencies cause their volleys to fail. However when given an overall plan or when in small unit actions they are incredible.

Grenadiers - Mostly ignored the Reunited States of Force are one of the few remaining powers to use grenades. They are possibly the most disciplined of the troops which means they have a chance of making a volley. They have a habit of guessing when Cavalry are going to come and throwing the grenades timing them so the grenades blow up as the enemy charges. Not to damaging but scary as hell and known to make horse panic.

Calvary - Almost none as it just isn't appreciated. Too unreliable and too expensive. Smart action always beats calvary in the mind of a TRSF citizen. There is a token force though that almost never shows up.

Officers - Good young officers elected only on talent. The main Problem has to do with the fact that the troops are to indisciplined to work with. Small unit commanders though excel at seeing opportunities and taking them.

Land Supply Chain - Weak due to the disorderly nature. Many units end up in different places and though the saying is "No plan survives first contact with the enemy" in TRSF (The Reunited States of Force) It is closer to "No plan survives first contact with the lower ranking officers." This means units tend to have either forage or carry more rations or starve and desert. None are good.


Artillery


6 Pounders - A decent sized part of the army these cannons are lugged everywhere mostly by infantry. They normally are brought to the front to fire canister at charging calvary. If not they roundshot calvary. Whatever they do it is anti-calvary.

12 Pounders - The Most common make. Just a general cannon used to punch holes in the enemy formation and cause problems.

18 Pounders - A less cannon make used for long range bombardment. Sometimes used with light infantry to target generals and headquarters.

Howitzers - Positioned right behind the line they fire just a tad bit back from the line keeping pressure on the forces fighting TRSF.

Artillery Officers - Generally good quality like the army. The artillery is well maintained and an important part of the army.

Navy


Shore Bombardment - Decent ability to bombard the shore but not a specialty. 1/20th of the Navy is devoted to solely Shore Bombardment ships.

Sloops - TRSF like to use Sloops and small units the same way they like to use small units on land. Thus the Sloops normally are hard to read as they constantly revise the plan. The Navy is slightly more disciplined though. 1/2 the ships of the Navy are sloops.

Frigates and Other large Ships - TRSF Uses Frigates mostly as command points but sometimes in combat. Not a specialty. 1/5 of the Navy.

Transports - Fordock still likes to hold small transports on board sloops and such which carry small squads of men. Boarding actions while rare in this day are still appreciated by TRSF. Though it is hard to succeed most sailors on board rarely stay in possession of the ship if TRSF troops get aboard. This also includes Generic Transports. 1/4 of the Navy.

In short we excel at small unit tactics and Skirmishing but are horrible at long drawn out campaigns especially away from home.

Just and update on my state of affairs.

I would like to be French.

La Glorie

only two i know most of, i know Portuguese got their ones off the British
and as for Prussians, Russians i never read that they had them
*snip*

i think the Russians may also have got their rifles off the British, but I'm not sure.

the Americans made their own, i believe.

the Russians had Major issues with manufacture and supply, and had some obscenely large number of different Muskets, let alone anything else. their solution was something to the effect of "the best shots get the best guns"

as a result, the sharp shooters and sergeants tended to be the ones with the rifles, rather than having rifle units.

there's a story about an officer commanding some Russian troops. they were meant to stand and volley. problem was, whenever he went to a different part of the line, the infantry where he just was would charge. after riding back and forth a bit he gave up, gathered up a group of sergeants and sharp shooters [which included his rifles] and just sat on them. heh.

i can't remember the details, but i think the Prussians had rifles. possibly some of their jagers? *shrugs*

i've looked into this stuff before for various reasons. but i'm not good at remembering sources, and i assimilate the data more than i memorize it.

note: napoleonic field artillery:

12 pounders are large enough to make moving them around difficult, but still possible.

18 pdrs are basically worthless as anything short of siege guns unless fixed as part of a fort or something [those on ships are an exception]

howitzers come in 6 or 9 pdr varieties, mostly, so ... which size?



oh, and this:
The Gurguvii strategy of the period involved force marching to positions before the enemy, achieving local superiority in numbers and attacking in large formations (often the three-deep line, which combines the firepower of the line and the momentum of a column), combined with slashing attacks by cavalry and extensive battery fire.

better mean three Battlions in line, one behind the other, because otherwise you've just described either a standard line formation, or something really, really ridiculous.

sorry i'm not noting who said what, but i'm having enough trouble keeping up with What was said [or i was]

Right, I'm in.

My forces are based upon the British model, but with a greater emphasis on individual initiative by lower-level officers, and on a combative spirit, engaging the enemy with full commitment.
This shows itself at sea, where Incognitian frigate captains will act independently and aggressively, and never avoid a fight unless the odds are ridiculous.
The cost of this is a decline in discipline, and a greater risk of insubordination.

The infantry is the primary arm of the army. A few formed units carry rifles, and in-theatre these are usually seconded to other battalions as skirmishers. The rest carry muskets. All uniforms are varying shades of green, this being the national colour, but any camouflage is inadvertent, shown by the fact many uniforms have white crossbelts, brass badges, or extremely silly hats.

Cavalry are somewhat disdained as a combat arm. Light cavalry are heavily used for scouting, and a very few regiments of effective heavy cavalry exist. The rest are poorly trained and indisciplined (if individually quite skilled) yeomanry.

Artillery tends to be attached at the brigade level. Horse artillery exists in small numbers, but field artillery has a much greater emphasis. Primary gun is the 9pdr, though at divisional level there may be a battery of 12pdr guns.

Officers: are promoted through a hybrid of patronage and merit, as a new merit-based system very slowly replaces the old purchases.
The large and effective Engineering Corps is the only one to have no purchased commissions whatsoever, but many of the less prestigious infantry regiments are being pushed to take graduates of the Military Academy rather than bored gentlemen who have bought a commission. There are many Academy captains, but few above the level of major. Of course, in war-time promotion comes swiftly, for those who survive.

The Navy:
Focusses on the heavyweight Ships of the Line to the detriment of lighter vessels, so while frigates have similar crewing standards, and good captains, they are generally short of stores and have to wait longer for repairs, careening etc. When deployed with ships of the line, a lot of unofficial exchanges take place, but when out on station alone, this can be a problem.
Crews are well-trained and committed, officers are good, with an attacking spirit, but significantly the best ships in the navy are captured, as good shipbuilders are handicapped by poor designs.

Oh, also my 2p-worth on numbers, populations etc.

Britain's population in 1801 was about 10 million. I believe France had about 20. I doubt any power will have much more than that; Russia may equal it, but with corresponding difficulties of cohesion, of distance, etc.

Thus a standard of 10-15 million seems reasonable.

As to armies...Napoleon's Grande Armee peaked at 550,000 men or thereabouts, though that included about half of them being foreign troops.
So that means, in a country showing signs of heavy strain from conflict, the army was (300,000/20 million) 1.5%.
The navy did still exist of course, so total military at that point was probably 2%.
Thusly, we're looking at 2-300,000 militaries when you're fully committed to the war, but not yet taking the old men and boys who barely shave.
And obviously that includes navies...which with a complement of 700-odd for a 74 gun ship of the line, can take a heavy dent in your available manpower.

My Forces will be Bavarian

Army:
Light Infantry
Infantry - Line
- Guard - Few Units
- Militia

Cavalry - Line & Guard.

Artillery 9 & 12pdr batteries.

... a random map of doom (Which i COULD make, but it would be a real map all mishapen to hell and back). ...

i don't think anyone would mind that overly much :)
[course, people are free to disagree with me :P]

I LOVE THE IDEA! Can I pick Iceland??

I LOVE THE IDEA! Can I pick Iceland??

Um, it isn't RL countries, people are giving a rough idea of the style of troops they're using by comparing them to RL examples.

I'm gonna go with a US-style army of the period, little, mediocre cavalry, infantry primarily composed of militia, and average artillery.

I'm of the opinion that a lot of 'boneheaded' decisions in the nap wars were caused by more practical concerns than tactical 'stupidity'. Most armies are not going to be able to skirmish very well because you can't use conscripted troops to do it out of the fear that you might never see them again. Also, it was difficult to give orders to skirmishers due to the fact that an officer couldn't really see or be able to give orders to the whole unit.

Also, while signals were quite evolved from earlier eras, winning the battle was still mostly about matching your plan in the beginning against theirs. While you could make some changes on the fly, once a plan was set in motion you couldn't really take it back.

well, you Could, to some extent... if your messangers managed to get where they needed to be without getting dead, lost, or captured.

and if the officer you were giving the orders to was still where he was supposed to be. and if he actually followed the orders given.

and if you didn't try and change it too many different ways too quickly [sometimes the messengers would show up out of order.. eep! there goes any cohesion]

and keeping in mind what your opponent did...

but yeah, once a unit was committed you didn't have a lot of hope of regaining control of it unless you were basically physically Right There. and you can't be Everywhere at once [no matter how close some historic generals seem to have come :P] also, the more you do that the more likely you [the commander, that is] are to get shot or something unhelpful.

so yeah. plans are very important. heh.

OK... Hmmm... I guess... I will use british style army.

Idea. Let us create Fact Books as this thread has become cluttered.

Idea. Let us create Fact Books as this thread has become cluttered.

it's a Idea thread so it don't matter that it cluttered

A little difficult to do a fact book, without knowing where we are and who our neighbours are.
Incidently in regard to the rifle discussian.

The Russians were given several hundred baker rifles, they also began producing a rifle patterned on a hamburg patent, the rifle being produced in Tula.
The difference in quality between the hamburg rifle and the baker rifle would be minimal considering the scope of this RP.

yeah yeah sorry about the math there haha i was wondering why it was coming up as 3 000 000 haha if you'll remember from my first post i had asked if we all had 2-3 army sizes of wellingtons or napoleon at waterloo.

Also i am not keen on allowing players with 100 or less posts in just cause of RP inexperiance. The last thing i want is 1 lone posts saying the cavarly have run over your infantry. No this is napoleonic and very large and mass confusion.

So unless you can prove your worth, like, maybe you had a previous account like me, or your just a damn good author, write something up and post it here. An example of an opening of a battle of sorts. Think of it as a test hehe.

Edit:

Angermanland are you in?

Now I want to know postions on a map so i can get one 'started' a basic one. Then if something thinks they can do better please post a link :P

And if people are not sure where they want i can draw up a random map with numbers and then we can draw numbers or bid or something haha

On the note of populations 10-15 million and in between. Your military had a max initial size of 2% which is 300 000. That is for your navy and army, those who dont have a navy can have 1.6% which is 240 000. Dont forget this number includes logistics, so wagon drivers, prize agents and all the small things.

Is this still open? If so, I'd like to join in.

ok well thats me out then.

well if you want to type something out

Maldorians - Type up what you want first, like what we have all done basic stuff

The Battle of Altenegglofsheim.

The Battlefield.
The battlefield ran North-South, with the village of Altenegglofsheim in the centre. In the Nor-east corner of the battlefield ran a significant forest on rough terrain, the wood simply known as North Wood.
The main road ran north to south through Altenegglofsheim. The village was split into three distinct suburbs the northern most of which sat a large stone church, the chapel of Saint Paul.
To the west of the village was another older stone church the chapel of the virgin Mary, though unused now it was still a strongly built stone chapel surrounded by a high rock wall.
To the south of the village ran another open wood on difficult terrain, this wood being dissected by the main road. It was known as the South Wood.
In the sou west corner of the battlefield ran a long low ridge.

For three days French and Allied forces had been moving through the Bavarian hills and valleys, slowly and carefully searching for signs of each other. In some cases the reconnaissance forces passed mere miles apart without locating each other.
The first contact was on the 4th of August, between Austrian Light cavalry and French lancers in a small farming community just south of Altenegglofsheim. The Austrian Light Cavalry were screening a small Austrian Corp and the 2nd British Infantry Division as they advanced towards Altenegglofsheim along the main road.
The French who were out searching were perhaps rather surprisingly just content to observe the Austrian Light Cavalry from a distance. The Austrian Cavalry commander (Vukassovic) mindful of his orders to screen the large Allied force quickly following behind him, was much more aggressive than his French counter part. As a result this “contest of the outposts” the Austrians immediately started pushing back the light French screen of Lancers.
The French commander now having sent a report of the contact back to his superior was still content to continue his observations of the Austrian light cavalry that was by now maneuvering on his flanks. Meanwhile once they had pushed the French down the side road, away from the main road the main Allied force continued its relentless progress towards Altenegglofsheim unobserved.

Meanwhile at this time over on the distant western flank the Russian Army was slowly marching north through Alkofen towards Abbach. The Russian Army Commander Count Laurence (a Scottish émigré was also designated the Allied Army commander; after all he had been assured personally by his Emperor that he was in fact in overall commander of all Allied Forces operating in Bavaria. The British and Austrian liaison officers assured the Russian Commander Prince Laurence that he was in command, despite these reassurances however it seemed that national characteristics or interests played on the minds of all Allied commanders in this campaign so far.
The British and Austrian commanders seemed happy to have their commander far out on the left flank, the British commander in particular was sure that he could deal with these pesky French. Having the Austrians along for the ride he assured his officers was going to be beneficial to the Austrian military experience.

Meanwhile the Russian commander was lamenting the fact that his Allies didn’t have the foresight and vision to see the magnificence off his overall strategy. In fact to him it seemed that if he were unable to exert a proper influence on events there would be no overall strategy, which further depressed him. At least he had vodka and the prospect of rich pickings and a hopefully a lovely Bavarian Frau in Ratisbon to comfort him.
Further on the Russians right the 1st Light Cavalry Brigade (1st British Infantry Division), were also approaching Abbach, but by way of the Aiglstetten – Abbach track.
They were effectively a day ahead of the Russian column, when much to the surprise of the British cavalry as they crossed the heights to the south of Abbach they observed French light cavalry on the ridges ahead. This suggested to the British commander that the French were already in Abbach, possibly already fortifying it.
Rather than sitting and observing, the Allied cavalry moved across the valley through the stream and attempted to circle around Abbach; however as they did so more French cavalry were seen in the area. Rather than risk encirclement themselves they returned to ridge they crossed earlier and observed.
The French Forces in and around Abbach were in fact the 1st Old Guard Division (General de Division Count Michel) the division recently brought back from Russia had been resting in Ratisbon when the Allies had crossed into Bavaria. It had received orders from the French Army Commander to march rapidly south and occupy Abbach, thereby denying the road that led to Ratisbon to the enemy. The Guard commander Count Michel was an extremely young Frenchman, but he was capable and keen to show his Emperor what he was capable off.

As reports began to trickle back in to the Russian Commander Count Laurence, he began to formulate his plans. At last and no longer depressed by the thought that he was missing out on the decisive actions of the war, nor was he any longer depressed by the impudent subordinate Allied commanders. Now he decided was his hour. This was his time to show what he and the Russian Army was truly capable of, he immediately started planning yet another of his cunning plans.

Meanwhile further back to the east great plans were also a foot. The III Austrian Corp, still supported by the British Division was continuing on towards Altenegglofsheim. The Allied intention was to hold and garrison the town.

Marching down from Ratisbon towards Altenegglofsheim was the French I Corp (1st and 5th Infantry Divisions), their objective also to seize and fortify Altenegglofsheim.
The 1st Heavy Cavalry Division supported the French forces approaching Altenegglofsheim by circling around on their right flank, ensuring no Allied units were approaching Altenegglofsheim from the west; unfortunately this route via Hinkelhofn took them away from the opening moves for the battle of Altenegglofsheim.

This is an excerpt out of my own Blog, Battlegroup napoleonics, in which we game Napoleonic campaigns- as Angermanland knows all to well since this campaign included some of his Russian units.

I would like a group of my own. A merc army with a few regulars.

Cavalry
-Mercenaries
-Loyal
-Defensive Doctrine
-Led by officer from the army, NOT the mercenary force
-Large numbers of Cavalry

Artillery
-Mercenaries
-Loyal
-Defensive Doctrine
-Led by officer from the army, NOT the mercenary force
-Most artillery placed defensively

Navy
-Mercenaries
-Loyal
-Defensive Doctrine
-Led by officer from the navy, NOT the mercenary force
-Small but versatile fleet

Infantry
Line/Light
-Mercenaries
-Loyal
-Defensive Doctrine
-Led by officer from the army, NOT the mercenary force
-Large numbers of line infantry
Grenadiers
-Mercenaries
-Loyal
-Defensive Doctrine
-Led by officer from the army, NOT the mercenary force
-Adaptable in many situations

Non-Mercenary Forces
Immortals- Elite Infantry, Well Trained and Equipped
Janissaries- Infantry units, Formed the household troops and bodyguard
Sipahi- Elite cavalry knights, Extremely Loyal
Akıncı: Frontline cavalry units, Raid and scout the border areas and outposts
Mehterân: Army Band which played martial tunes during military campaigns

Grand Doctrine
-Hit and Run
-Units tends to move around a lot
-Lightning attacks

OOC: Hope the Mercs are fine. Also, used some Ottoman stuff in my 'true' military

Delesa;13094430']Also i am not keen on allowing players with 100 or less posts in just cause of RP inexperiance. The last thing i want is 1 lone posts saying the cavarly have run over your infantry. No this is napoleonic and very large and mass confusion.

So unless you can prove your worth, like, maybe you had a previous account like me, or your just a damn good author, write something up and post it here. An example of an opening of a battle of sorts. Think of it as a test hehe.

Edit:

Angermanland are you in?

Now I want to know postions on a map so i can get one 'started' a basic one. Then if something thinks they can do better please post a link :P

And if people are not sure where they want i can draw up a random map with numbers and then we can draw numbers or bid or something haha

On the note of populations 10-15 million and in between. Your military had a max initial size of 2% which is 300 000. That is for your navy and army, those who dont have a navy can have 1.6% which is 240 000. Dont forget this number includes logistics, so wagon drivers, prize agents and all the small things.



of all the things I've said and posted... what makes you think i Wouldn't be?

yes i'm in :P

not sure how not having a navy reduces how many people you have available for combat services though.

also: how do new players, become better players, if they don't get to play, humm?

[honestly, my first RP, you go back and read it (err, allowing for the fact that my spelling was Really bad), there were a bunch of new and relatively new players involved, including me. guess who was making ultra-short posts and godmoding all over the place?

i'll give you a hint: it wasn't the newbies. (so far as i saw, anyway)
i do see your concern though]

as for where my nation goes on a map:

needs a bit of coastline to facilitate trade, but not lots and lots that must be defended at sea. think sort of like Russia in that regard.

also, i'd like to have diverse terrain [specifics are up to whoever makes the map. it's not like RL leaders can dictate their own geography, after all :D]

how far north, south, east, or west i am, or who i border, doesn't really worry me. [again, who ever Really got to chose Those factors?]

*snip*

This is an excerpt out of my own Blog, Battlegroup napoleonics, in which we game Napoleonic campaigns- as Angermanland knows all to well since this campaign included some of his Russian units.

hah! i was right. thought it was you. very good.

wait... that's the one with the evil river, right?

yeah, i went right back to being rather depressed about it all again after that *laughs*

I can work a map out with my country as the start and then people could refence from there if that works?

Either solution (Delesa's or Shakal's) works for me.

:rolleyes:Delesa could you let me know if Im in or out. If in I will take a Bavarian type nation. If out no problem.

Skylar ferguson is intersted

The Kingdom Of Skylar Ferguson/ norway(viking)

Fool. Vikings were medieval and I believe Norway was under the Swedes though I could be wrong. Not to mention you have under 100 posts and have failed to post an example which means you failed to read a short thread which means most likely you are a noob who would ruin this.

Fool. Vikings were medieval and I believe Norway was under the Swedes though I could be wrong. Not to mention you have under 100 posts and have failed to post an example which means you failed to read a short thread which means most likely you are a noob who would ruin this.

...wtf

That was freaking unnessecary...xD

<100 posts=n00b No, that is impossible, ill-conveived, and downright cwazy...

Sorry Angermanland... haha yeah after i said it i found your army description and was like oh... crap haha

Fool. Vikings were medieval and I believe Norway was under the Swedes though I could be wrong. Not to mention you have under 100 posts and have failed to post an example which means you failed to read a short thread which means most likely you are a noob who would ruin this.

not to mention that just because they're vikings... doesn't mean they're still cruising around on longships with axes and such.

and... at what point does the fact that historically, Sweden occupied Norway, become relevant at all to this enterprise, save that if he's modeling the army on a RL one he should have said Sweden, rather than Norway? [assuming that's even correct]

'sides, there's already an arrangement in place to cope with the "too few posts, unknown player" situation, if you read back through the thread.

your attitude worries me. a lot.

points for using 'fool' though, it's a better insult than most involving swearing, i find. 'idiot' can be effective if used in the right tone too. promptly lost again and then some for the 'noob' bit, however.

[none of which, i suppose i should admit, means I'm saying that Skylar Ferguson is definitely someone we want, or not... I'll reserve any opinion on That until after he posts his example and (if that's accepted) begins playing]

Did you review my submittance post?

Rechburg - A fine post an you are accepted now if you could just post something about your military, which reminds me all of you have out done my(which i just felt like doing and by no means expectd you guys to do it haha)

Maldorians - It seems alright, although how does one pay for all the mercs? Answer me that and if it makes sence your in.

Fordock - It was quite a rash out burst but in the en you were just trying to protect the RP but i can handle it.

Skylar Ferguson - Im sorry but it would be taking a risk putting another 'noob' not saying you are but you haven't read any of my other posts explaining this RP. Say if someone where to go to war with you and you left half way like some new people do then you just created a head ache with the map maker and the man you were at war with not to mention your allies that were depending on your forces. So I'm going to have to let you go.

Shakal - Go and create a map and we shall compare

Everyone else - If you want to create a map and we shall compare them.

Delesa;13097491']
Maldorians - It seems alright, although how does one pay for all the mercs? Answer me that and if it makes sence your in.



Well, these mercenaries are like mercenaries in real history. There was once when the Egyptians used 10,000 mercs in just one battle! There could even be more battles with far larger numbers, but that is all I can recal from my head.

Oh wait, there was 48,000 mercenaries at the time of the Seven Years War.

So, onto how I can fund the mercenaries. Well, since I have such a small 'pure' military, the rest of the funding can go towards the mercenary training. The main reason I use mercenaries, here, in my NS nation, and in Medieval 2: Total War :D, is because I have a sense of security. I am not using my military, yet rather paid fighters. If my economy is good, then why do I need to worry about senselessly wasting my forces?

If you have more questions, please ask. I'll look for more info on mercs..

Just something quick in Paint. You could add custom territories and such. Random inspirations are everywhere.

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/8678/randommapmo1.th.jpg (http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=randommapmo1.jpg)

Maldorians - Sure why not it should make it interesting

On to my map, well it photobucket would hurry up i should have a post up in no time :P

EDIT:

Yeah i play Total War II as well!!

Ok here it is, not that good, but it works.

Map (http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd180/SexySammyC/map.jpg)

I like my map better. Yours is to central and lacks large landmasses. I tried to make mine open to all types of nations (Land Sea and a mixture.) Besides it lacks Chokepoints too.

Fordock's map actually lends it's self primarily to naval interests, which is problematic for those of us without such. too much island, not enough continent.

on the other side, Shakals map just about needs to be the equivalent of all of Eurasia to be useful at all.

you know, we Could be rather... uninventive... and simply map our [fictitious] nations to RL Europe.

And Now Mine, i had to use photo shack or what ever cause photobucket is being a pain, but the locations are just a start like it someone wants a land locked land mass then say the word :p Not to mention i'll put in mountains rivers and shit, then it will be up to the person who has it one their land to name it.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6559/map2lj1.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=map2lj1.jpg)

This is a test run keep that in mind

you know, we Could be rather... uninventive... and simply map our [fictitious] nations to RL Europe.

i thought about that too haha

NSD your maps look better. Still though I think mine is the best. But I could just be stubborn. And I disagree about the whole naval thing on my map. There is a huge continent to the right that you can more or less focus on land. As for the whole Europe thing I disagree. Seems lazy. I say we stage a vote. Simple quick and efficient. We have 3 maps so we can do it quickly.

i'd like B on NSD's map

The strategies fit their nations. 2 man lines were great for the shooty British, Columns were good for Napoleon who liked to enter close combat with his troops and three men line are good for volley fire.

No time right now: I'm out.

In response to Angermanland, though, I meant a line three men thick, which was one more line of men than the British regularly used in deployment for battle. I think it was the Prussian model, if I'm recalling correctly, to deploy in a three deep line. The French attacked in column and the British in a two deep line.

My Army is loosly based on Bavaria

Line- Light - Musket Armed
Jager - rifle armed.

Cavalry - Light = hussar, uhlans
Heavy = Guard Cuirassier

Artillery 9pdr HA attached to Infantry and Cavalry Bdes
12pdr Attached to division and Corp establishments.

Signals - Militarised semaphore system,supported by courier system.

Krumper Reserves system - All regulars that have completed their
full term remain in the reserve system, for 10 years these reserves
are used to replace casusalties, thus keeping a regular efficiency in
the front line units.

All units are loyal and reliable-having been involved in wars between all continental major powers since prior to Marlbourian times.

I vote for Delesa's map, although - am I the only one? - it's only coming up as a small thumbnail picture.

click to magnify, incog.

i agree with you though. so far it's the better one.

still too much coastline for my taste though...

give me something with a Little bit of coastline [or, heck, i can deal with none at all] and I'll be happy.

edit: maybe the inland chunk of A D and C ? with the 'lake' [or inland sea, whatever] as coastline? [i think it was a d and c]

No time right now: I'm out.

In response to Angermanland, though, I meant a line three men thick, which was one more line of men than the British regularly used in deployment for battle. I think it was the Prussian model, if I'm recalling correctly, to deploy in a three deep line. The French attacked in column and the British in a two deep line.

actually, this isn't quite so.

the three line deep thing was actually a Swedish innovation, apparently. one gustav adolphus [or some such] was the first to train his armies well enough to use it effectively.

the British [and perhaps some of their allies] were the only ones NOT to use three rank lines, and virtually everyone used columns at one point or another.

British used lines 2 ranks primarily deep due to a lack of men. if they formed three deep, they found themselves with short lines, and thus unable to cover the necessary frontage.

they fact they could [mostly] fire so rapidly Mostly went into offsetting the fact they didn't have a third line, i believe [though This bit could be incorrect]

at waterloo, they actually reverted to the three rank model Anyway as it had more resistance to a charge [especially important with cavalry around]

basically, a three deep line is in no way a "large" formation in and of it's self. it's the standard infantry configuration for firing musket volleys. which isn't, of course, to say you can't form a Large three rank deep line, just that the 'large' bit would come from length [files], not the number of ranks.

the French used columns not so much because they Liked close combat, as because it was the formation that conscripts were Least likely to break and run from, as the only practical way to get Out of it was for it to disintegrate from the rear, and those at the rear couldn't see what was happening at the front, and effectively forced the formation forward anyway. this did lead to occasions of the front of the column getting shot away so fast that it basically wasn't moving, apparently, when they went up against the British, but until they did, the shear mass of men, who wouldn't Stop in the face of volleys, generally unnerved an enemy enough that the [still formed] French would have an advantage in melee, if the enemy didn't simply break and run.

the British simply stood in the face of it and kept shooting, maybe bowed the flanks forward and the center back a bit so as to fire into the flank of the column as well as the front. their rate of fire and willingness to stand and fight, between them, countered the column's near inability to stop. [note, not just it wasn't possible for other people to stop it, but the column basically couldn't stop It's Self without orders]

the Russians used columns on the attack. as did the Austrians [admittedly, some of Their columns could almost be called lines as easily :S] . even the British did sometimes, i believe, though not as often as they didn't exactly have spare men to throw away.


on a tangentially semi-related note, re Prussian rifles:

they didn't use them. though apparently they did make some...

which they sold to the Russians.

go figure.


did i mention i agree with incog re the map? think i did in a different post.

also, my rifled grenadiers are going to be using maurician formations rather than gustavian [maurician formations are the older concept] meaning that they will be fighting in formations 10 ranks deep by 60 wide when at full strength, rather than 3 rank lines or narrow columns like regular infantry [note: my musket men will be using the standard formations] :D

you'll see why when i use it :)

This seems interesting! I'd love to take part, too.

Kronstadtia would be a bit similar to Duchy of Warsaw, =a border nation siding with one great power to resist another, with numerically limited but rather crack troops.
Specializing in Uhlans and light infantry.

Im having trouble also trying to expand Del's map, clicking on it doesnt help.

However I would have thought more land would have been more appropriate in a napoleonic campaign, particularly as naval of the period often played a secondary role. For example, interdicting supply routes, trade and transporting armies. No nation was defeated by Naval success, merely more limited on where they can go.

The land should I feel dominate the sea.

click to magnify, incog.

i agree with you though. so far it's the better one.

<snip>

Yeah, tried that the first time. It didn't work then, still doesn't work now.

[NS:]Delesa Map saved by me and upload to photobucket

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t69/zxc_047/map2lj1.jpg

Alright new map with more "Land"

So I proudly present

MAP 2


http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb203/Trooper5445/Napoleon_Map_2.jpg?t=1191351842

Click to zoom in.

What about this map, map is historical but the rest of it can be altered as you see fit.


http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc284/baztay/?action=view&current=European_Empires_Startup.gif

Any comments on my map? Suggestions for revisions? Interesting tid-bits noticed? Problems with Bias?

I think i have three votes if i include my own, and a couple modifications, more land and land locked nation for Angermanland all which are no problem, but i wont redo unless i have too. That was an example of my work.

BTW you people can call me delesa the NS thing is just cause i wanted to register before nation starts would 'confirm' me haha

Imperial isa - thank you very much.

I want these maps over and done with so we can start so this is were it hangs right now:

Delesa - Del
Angermanland - Del
Shakal -
Fordock - Fordock
Gurguvungunit -
Terror Incognitia - Del
Rechburg - Del
Maldorians - Del

Vote now or forever hold your tongue haha

Barkozy - I dont remember your stats and everything? Or did i skip over it?

Kronstadtia - If you people would read the entire thread/post you people would learn what to do so i will not repeat myself. If you dont give me the right stuff its a no, so get with the program.

Everyone in the RP - We need a number of Rpers to vut off at.

Delesa;13100648']I think i have three votes if i include my own, and a couple modifications, more land and land locked nation for Angermanland all which are no problem, but i wont redo unless i have too. That was an example of my work.

BTW you people can call me delesa the NS thing is just cause i wanted to register before nation starts would 'confirm' me haha

Imperial isa - thank you very much.

I want these maps over and done with so we can start so this is were it hangs right now:

Delesa - Del
Angermanland - Del
Shakal -
Fordock - Fordock
Gurguvungunit -
Terror Incognitia - Del
Rechburg -

Don't forget me! *shakes fist*

OMG I KNEW I FORGOT SOMEONE!!! hahaha couldn't remember who

Delesa;13100662']
Kronstadtia - If you people would read the entire thread/post you people would learn what to do so i will not repeat myself. If you dont give me the right stuff its a no, so get with the program.

I read it through, all the yabble about rifles and populations (Britain was far from the "second most populated" btw, both Austria and Russia had more inhabitants, France having the greatest population) but I guess I just missed the part where you said what was required.
So I just presented my general idea of a nation, only asking if you needed/wanted another player, for you already had quite a number :)

But no problem, here comes:


The Grand Duchy of Kronstadtia

Population: *about 1/3 of the average you guys are going to have*
Society: Religious peasantry living in poverty, little middle class and few rich merchants, large and rather secular agrarian nobility. Ruled officially by a council of nobles, in reality led by the Duke of Petrogia (the capital), who is also the commander of the army.
Economy: Agricultural produtcts, iron, copper, silver.


Army of The Duke

Grand Calvary;
Well trained, in both massive maneuvers in the open field and squadron-based recce operations. Extremely well mounted; the very pride of the army.
Consists mainly Lancers (the whole concept of using lance in the modern Era being invented in Kronstadtia) and Light Dragoons. A rather small cadre of Cuirassiers, mainly provided by the Lifeguard Squadrons of higher nobles. Cavalry is recruited from the ranks of lower nobility and free land owning peasantry.
Reliable Infantry;
Recruited amongst the poor and uneducated peasantry, the average private of some average Regiment of Line Infantry should not be expected to come up with brilliant new ideas about the situation, or take initiative, not to mention even know why he fights. NCO's are however selected from the ranks of infantry, and are (because of this immense rise in social status) well motivated and always eager to gain more prestige in the eyes of their noble officers.
The common men are also very religious, and the nobility has, after centuries of brainwashing, managed to make them think that dying for one's country is the most certain way to make it to Heaven. Therefore the men are usually quite brave under fire. They're also adequately drilled, and should be able to keep up a steady rate of volleys even under the harsher conditions, but not much more.

Infantry is divided into three sections:

Regiments of The Line - The ordinary, basic infantry.
Regiments of Fusiliers - Light infantry, able to fight in forests and hills in broken formation. Used for skirmishing, armed with better muskets than the Line Regiments.
Jaeger-companies - Men armed with very long rifles, acting in sections of 4-6, hunting officers and enemy artillery crews. There are only a couple of such companies in the whole of Kronstadtia.

Plus these there are two regiments of Lifeguard Grenadiers, acting as the Duke's Household guard. Handpicked, extremely well trained men.

Very Good Regimental, Adequate Brigade Level, Sucky Divisional Officers;
Highest officer posts go automatically to the most powerful nobles and their sons. However, commanders of Infantry battalions and cavalry regiments are selected according to their ability. To be a brigade commander, you have to be both somewhat able and liked by your superiors. To be anything above that, you just need a lot of cash or a powerful friend.

Small Yet Efficient Artillery:
Artillery is of the 1st class, being equipped and trained by the latest standards. It's tactical use is offensive, and all pieces are usually gathered to one section of the battle line to give the desicive boost. However, the small number of pieces makes the rest of the army vulnerable to enemy fire as Kronstadtian artillery is always too small to cover but a part of it. Some noble officers are also stronly against the use of artillery, claiming it to be unworthy for "descendants of knights and heroes" that they are.

Supply System and Reinforcements;
Because of the great percentage of cavalry in the Kronstadtian army, when on offensive it has quite a good chance of living off the land, and it is supposed to live mainly what it can loot from the enemy population.
When fighting within its own borders, it uses a system of great supplies magazines and stores spread around the countryside.
At least in theory.
Most of the time the money meant to be used for these stores ends up into the pockets of the nobles in charge of the respective areas.

Reinforcing a depleted unit in the field is done by sending the required men from each regiment's reserve battalion - which usually isn't more than a company though - and hoping that they make up the lack of training (which is lacking badly in these units) by the experience their comrades share with them when they arrive to the front.

Im happy with Delesa map.
I would prefer a land locked country as well but on that map Im happy with what comes.

Ok so a second land locked nation which will be no problem when i expand the land.

Kronstadtia - Sorry for the rash out break but yesterday was tough for me. Everything seems in line and you are now in.

As for anyone else thinking they want to join, dont bother im cutting it off here. Kronstadtia is the last. The more people we have the more that will drop out before we all agree to finish.

Hopefully i'm still good. I vote for del's map by the way, i thought my mentioning the map would count.

btw i have a writeup already but i'll do a better one soon

I like Delesa's map as well.

Hopefully i'm still good. I vote for del's map by the way, i thought my mentioning the map would count.

btw i have a writeup already but i'll do a better one soon

How would claiming a spot put you in the game? I need to see your Military Information was well as government you 'might' model.

And now that i have a majority of votes for my map, im in the process of editing it and it should be up in oh i would have to say... 10-20 min. Putting on the finishing touches on locations.

Delesa;13103328']How would claiming a spot put you in the game? I need to see your Military Information was well as government you 'might' model.

I'm gonna go with a US-style army of the period, little, mediocre cavalry, infantry primarily composed of militia, and average artillery.

Waaay back in page 3.

That post was loaded with more 'background' stuff and if you were looking for more of a writeup that's fine. I'll drop out if it makes you feel better i guess.

Well if you haven't noticed everyone else has done it... so yeah before i let you in your going to have to.

And here is the new 'Improved!' map!

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3739/map1py6.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=map1py6.jpg)

And for some reason i thought there was 10 people but i can change that.

I'd like *in order from most wanted down*

1
9
2
10

The Republic of Barkozy

Being a new republic, wary of large armies in general, the nation is not set up to support them in any fashion. That being said, there is some fighting capability.

Infantry

Barkozy keeps 2 5,000-man regular brigades active at all times, along with another 2 semi-regular brigades. The semi-regular brigades are rotated from territorial militias every few months to take advantage of the economies of the territories. Generally, the semi-regular brigades swell during the winter and fall and get lean near the summer and spring.

Even the regular brigades are not particularly well-trained or equipped, but they do actually wear uniforms and such. It is quite important to note that the regular brigades are spread out heavily. It's much more descriptive to think of them as general commands rather than unified brigades, as they normally provide garrisons for fortresses all across the country. The semi-regular brigades tend to take the roles of border guards and city garrisons and try to remain together. Because these troops are territorials much effort is made to keep regiments together. This is why regulars must be used in detached command.

The military is generally top-heavy as far as command goes, spending much of its money on trained officers to accomodate a larger force including territorial militia. Militia, while somewhat unreliable, can be used to good effect by solid command and this role is generally left to the regular army rather than the territories.

Cavalry
Barkozy does not generally operate cavalry for two reasons. One, the terrain is not favorable, and two, cavalry just do not fit the bill for either regular or militia units. With the regulars, horses just eat up the food stores of the fortresses. With militias, it's just more money a deserter rides off with. This isn't to say horses aren't used. In the regular army, there is an abundance of pack horses for artillery and such, but as an arm of battle, it's just not there.

Artillery
While some of the richer territories provide a few artillery pieces, most of the artillery resides with the regular army for practical reasons. Most territorial governments are strapped for cash as it is so they only provide infantry.

Artillery quality and number is generally good, as opposed to the other arms. In order to avoid forcing militia into drawn out engagements with enemies, the hope is to use artillery to whittle down opposing infantry to allow militia to engage them with a large advantage.

Navy
The navy is a contentious issue between territorial governments and the federal government. There are few servicable warships in Barkozy, but normally the territories can provide respectable sealift capacity for troop movements.

To sum it up: Mostly unreliable militia infantry, non-existant cavalry, good, numerous artillery, and little navy to speak of.

I'd like territory six, please. Not aware of any prior bids on it.

EDIT: If your men are part-time in the semi-regular brigades...surely they'd be at their smallest in the autumn, as that is harvest-time and thus there'll be the greatest demand for labour at that point.

I'd like territory six, please. Not aware of any prior bids on it.

EDIT: If your men are part-time in the semi-regular brigades...surely they'd be at their smallest in the autumn, as that is harvest-time and thus there'll be the greatest demand for labour at that point.

you are correct in that regard, i had them confused

I would like 7, If its not available 4

Thanks

what IS it with nationstates and the ocean? seriously, it's weird.

i'll take whichever one, really. i'll adapt the exact stats etc based on which one i get. [i do have a preference for (near?)land-locked territory if no one's taken it yet though]

which, isn't hard given that i haven't worked them out yet anyway.

i'll go with 9(preferably) or 6 assuming i've been approved

4 or 5, please.

My Priorities are

9
5
2

In that order.

what IS it with nationstates and the ocean? seriously, it's weird.

i'll take whichever one, really. i'll adapt the exact stats etc based on which one i get. [i do have a preference for (near?)land-locked territory if no one's taken it yet though]

which, isn't hard given that i haven't worked them out yet anyway.

well see the problem is i have a problem with the map running off the edge of the map. I haven't drawn a scale to it, but it is a huge land mass. I did create a land-locked nation for you i think... i just have to check. And it isn't that hard to go back and edit the way i set it up.

EDIT: Angermanland - 7 and 4 are land locked, 4 being a version of switzerland haha

EDIT: Angermanland they are land locked, but they have access to a lake, which i thought because it was land locked that it would happy to have some fishing, or it could be the area of dispute that puts you to war. I tried to make the map accommodating to peoples requests at the same time creating problems for a conflict, like 5 with 2 might go to war with 10 over the natural canal.

Are they any comments on how you want the map changed a WEE bit?

I still like my map better but if this is the way the vote goes then I shall acept. Not sure you guys even saw my second one. It can feature many landlocked states as I have yet to divide it up. Plus NSD your map needs to be reworked to fit us all so we might as well try again.

Your's is too effin' big, TBH.

Alright new map with more "Land"

So I proudly present

MAP 2


http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb203/Trooper5445/Napoleon_Map_2.jpg?t=1191351842

Click to zoom in.

I still like my map better but if this is the way the vote goes then I shall acept. Not sure you guys even saw my second one. It can feature many landlocked states as I have yet to divide it up. Plus NSD your map needs to be reworked to fit us all so we might as well try again.

I still like my map better but if this is the way the vote goes then I shall acept. Not sure you guys even saw my second one. It can feature many landlocked states as I have yet to divide it up. Plus NSD your map needs to be reworked to fit us all so we might as well try again.

Uh who am i missing? i have 10 spots and they are now 10 people.

And not to mention like i said i dont like the fact your land just goes off the map? Where the does the rest of it go?

Never really thought of it. I always assumed it was just a section of the world and not the whole world. I could revise it or you could assume it just gets all icy and is classified as land even though a large part is ice.

Still have trouble enlarging Delwsa's map, even by clicking; are others having the same problem.

It is regular size. It is very small only 600 pixels across. But anyhow no problems opening image shack.

It would seem to me Delesa's map is fine but the land needs to be extended. The sea should be minimal as naval transport routes and naval battles do not necessarily require a map location, that could all be handled abstractly; thus leaving lots of land to squabble over.

Regards

NEW MAP

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/5708/map2gw2.th.jpg (http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=map2gw2.jpg)

Plot 3!

5 I claim plot 5.

plot 9 for me

No 2 for me.

If it isn't too late to join, which I assume so by the [open] tag, then I'll join too! Just notify me if I can...

I would suggest you read the thread first as having under 100 posts by the leader of the thread you are requested to post an intro to prove your Rping skills. Also that would require re-making the map so I'm not sure but I suggest editing with a national description of your armed force and nation and proof of your Rping skill.

Darn it, I just finished editing too...ah well.

Sorry I forgot to put on the front, its now closed, 10 players is enough.

plot 9 for me

Your going to need a origonal flag for me to put you on the map. Same goes for Rechburg and Angermanland since you guys have the same flag.

Darn it, I just finished editing too...ah well.

Well lets see what you have, if the people i have on the list dont respond soon i'll replace them.

Here's what I have, since I wrote it while the thread closed.

The Communist Dominion of Stoklomolvi
The country of Stoklomolvi is actually a large conglomeration of similar states. Stoklomolvi was officially formed in year 1724, by Commissar Alexei. Its armed forces are actually stronger than one might expect, and its land area is massive. However, its armed forces are quite small for a country its size.

Population: ~14.5 million
Economy: Coal, iron, sulphur, phosphorous, saltpetre, manufactured products

Stoklomolvi Ground Forces
The Stoklomolvi Imperial Guard was formed in 1725. It boasts primarily the Stoklomolvi Stormtroopers; though numbering a few thousand, they are the feared Imperial Guardsmen of Stoklomolvi. Everyone else was recruited directly from the rabble.

Stoklomolvi Navy
The Stoklomolvi Imperial Navy consists of numerous weak wooden ships, while there are several massive flagships. Every flagship commands scores of small ships, donned corvettes by the Navy. If the flagship is sunk, then the entire regiment would be thrown into disarray. The Navy's Imperial Officers are highly trained, though normal crewmen are usually picked out of the rabble at worn-down recruitment offices in small docks.

Stoklomolvi Cavalry
The Stoklomolvi Imperial Hussars consists of only a few divisions. Every one has a mixture of dragoons and cuirassiers. The Imperial Hussars tend to favour charging and breaking enemy lines, unlike some cavalry sections in other countries that favour harassment of enemy infantry. Dragoons in the Imperial Hussars target enemy cavalry, while the cuirassiers attempt to break through enemy infantry formations and target enemy artillery.

Stoklomolvi Artillery
The Stoklomolvi Imperial Artillery section only contains several hundred artillery pieces. However, every artillery piece can fire a massive distance, and have massive calibres. Being as such, every artillery piece takes a massive time to reload, and must be protected well.

Summary
Stoklomolvi Imperial Guard: 165,000 stormtroopers
Stoklomolvi Imperial Navy: 8,000 sailors
Stoklomolvi Imperial Hussars: 11,000 cavalrymen
Stoklomolvi Imperial Artillery: 550 pieces

I have changed the Rechburg Flag

And on the note of populations, the max you can have is 15 million. As for military size, 1.5% is max if you conscript.

Edit: So the math is 15 000 000 x 0.015 (1.5%) = 225 000 for your entire military - navy, army and logistics.

Edited per request.

Here's what I have, since I wrote it while the thread closed.
...
Summary
Stoklomolvi Imperial Guard: 200,000 stormtroopers
Stoklomolvi Imperial Navy: 8,000 sailors
Stoklomolvi Imperial Hussars: 11,000 cavalrymen
Stoklomolvi Imperial Artillery: 6,000 pieces

Stoklomolvi we are putting the limit at 15 million for historic and realistic reasons.

EDIT: Thanks, just one thing it was five men min per artillery piece so in reality you would have 1,200 pieces

I have changed the Rechburg Flag

Thank you.

You're confusing me a bit there. The total population for me is, in fact, under 15 million. Note that the troop numbers are in thousands, not millions. I edited the troop descriptions to avoid the dreaded godmodding.

Yeah i didn't refresh the page haha

You're confusing me a bit there. The total population for me is, in fact, under 15 million. Note that the troop numbers are in thousands, not millions. I edited the troop descriptions to avoid the dreaded godmodding.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1294/map21jc3.th.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/my.php?image=map21jc3.jpg)

Updated map

Changed the artillery number, and I also calculated the numbers.

165,000 / 5 = 33,000, which is a bit much

Hence, I just changed it to 550 instead, to avoid further artillery complications.

Barkozy took #9 but he needs a new flag, and just hold on, im going to give the people the weekend to respond and commit, if they dont they are out your in. Kk?

I choose plot #10, if no one else disagrees. Also, I think someone took plot #9?

Alright, but that essentially lowers my chances of joining to 1% or so, since most people are free during the weekends.

The Prussians brought the rifle from Hanover, but they were of limited value as the Prussian Jagers that used them preferred their own hunting rifles which were not much good for military purposes. The Russians brought the patent of the rifle from Hanover and started producing them in their Tula factories. However they were of very poor quality, as in fact were most of the Russian produced small firearms.
Despite this lack of quality the Russians and Prussians did have rifles, just not a lot of them, and of very dubious quality.

right... on NSD's new map i would like plot number 8, if that is possible. [I'd be abandoning all mention of a navy i think. if it's Not still available, then anywhere is good]

wow, today's been busy, or i would have got to this sooner.

do i still need to change my flag, or can i keep my nice southern cross?

still in, too, in case that was an issue.

and, if that is everything finally settled planning wise, [once this mapping is done and so on]... starting up a new OOC thread with the map, links to fact books, links to threads etc. in the first post would be a good idea. and once we get to that point we Can write fact books, which'll be nice.

Delesa;13106722']Barkozy took #9 but he needs a new flag, and just hold on, im going to give the people the weekend to respond and commit, if they dont they are out your in. Kk?

I've got the flag issue resolved.

Oh, and I think we ought to put all the factbooks in one thread so we don't need to spam up II with factbook threads.

It's a new map, and on this new map I'd like plot 6 please, just as on the old one.
I assume my flag is ok, since it's a unique custom jobby.

Delesa;13106688']Stoklomolvi we are putting the limit at 15 million for historic and realistic reasons.

EDIT: Thanks, just one thing it was five men min per artillery piece so in reality you would have 1,200 pieces

Actually the number of crewmen per artillery piece differed quite a lot, depending on the the army and the calibre. Russians used to have larger crews, for they weer supposed to fight infantry-style should their guns be charged at.

Crew numbers varied between 4 and 14. Besides there are plenty of armourers, horse keepers, wagon drivers et cetera, who should be counted also.


About the spots, I think that number 4 would be the best for me. Are we free to think of our own geographies also? I need a plenty of plains, a couple of larger forests and a decent mountain chain, for instance.

Actually the number of crewmen per artillery piece differed quite a lot, depending on the the army and the calibre. Russians used to have larger crews, for they weer supposed to fight infantry-style should their guns be charged at.

Crew numbers varied between 4 and 14. Besides there are plenty of armourers, horse keepers, wagon drivers et cetera, who should be counted also.


About the spots, I think that number 4 would be the best for me. Are we free to think of our own geographies also? I need a plenty of plains, a couple of larger forests and a decent mountain chain, for instance.

One thing to note is that many artillery pieces are going to be tied up in fortifications. I wouldn't consider 500 guns out of the question if it included artillery in fortresses, but if it's just field pieces then i would say a more reasonable number would be in the realm of 200-300 guns.

fun thing about fortifications, is you can load 24 pdrs etc into them :D

such guns are Worthless as field artillery, but in fixed defense are very nifty.

actually, check out this napoleonic artillery summery (http://www.wtj.com/articles/napart/).

nicely explains a bunch of different things about artillery of the era.

also explains what makes licorns [aka, and far more commonly so, Unicorn Guns] so nifty. and why British artillery was more mobile sooner.

all sorts of useful things.

One thing to note is that many artillery pieces are going to be tied up in fortifications. I wouldn't consider 500 guns out of the question if it included artillery in fortresses, but if it's just field pieces then i would say a more reasonable number would be in the realm of 200-300 guns.

should be noted that, in individual historic battles int he era in question, it wasn't unheard of for the two sides, between them, to exceed 1,200 guns, on the battlefield. that's up to [or in excess of] 600 FIELD GUNS in One Army at One Battle.

i'll admit they were large battles, but none the less that argues Against the need to include fortifications [which tend to be equipped with weapons larger than field guns Anyway] to reasonably come to 500 guns, especially as such battles would NOT include every single artillery piece available to each nation [as whichever side was attacking would not have fort artillery to worry about, and neither nation's SHIP guns would count... especially when you allow for ships having as many as 75 cannon EACH]

so. yeah.
that's all i got to say about that.

should be noted that, in individual historic battles int he era in question, it wasn't unheard of for the two sides, between them, to exceed 1,200 guns, on the battlefield. that's up to [or in excess of] 600 FIELD GUNS in One Army at One Battle.

i'll admit they were large battles, but none the less that argues Against the need to include fortifications [which tend to be equipped with weapons larger than field guns Anyway] to reasonably come to 500 guns, especially as such battles would NOT include every single artillery piece available to each nation [as whichever side was attacking would not have fort artillery to worry about, and neither nation's SHIP guns would count... especially when you allow for ships having as many as 75 cannon EACH]

so. yeah.
that's all i got to say about that.

I don't know if every battle is Borodino-sized and such. Yeah, you have a good point.

right... on NSD's new map i would like plot number 8, if that is possible. [I'd be abandoning all mention of a navy i think. if it's Not still available, then anywhere is good]

wow, today's been busy, or i would have got to this sooner.

do i still need to change my flag, or can i keep my nice southern cross?

still in, too, in case that was an issue.

and, if that is everything finally settled planning wise, [once this mapping is done and so on]... starting up a new OOC thread with the map, links to fact books, links to threads etc. in the first post would be a good idea. and once we get to that point we Can write fact books, which'll be nice.

Yes number 8 was made for you, but i think i will reduce the size so you can have more fun with your army. Your flag is the one with british ensign?

I have updated the flags and now have only 7 and 10 open. We are waiting on... Shakal and Gurguvungunit if i am correct.

...and, if that is everything finally settled planning wise, [once this mapping is done and so on]... starting up a new OOC thread with the map, links to fact books, links to threads etc. in the first post would be a good idea. and once we get to that point we Can write fact books, which'll be nice.

Yes I was going to set that up once the land was plotted that way you can put more in your fact book.

Are we free to think of our own geographies also? I need a plenty of plains, a couple of larger forests and a decent mountain chain, for instance.

Again i was going to tell you guys once the map was filed and you knew where you are, you HAVE to have a map, other wise who does one expect to attack your nation when he doesn't know where your city's are.

What i can do is zoom in on your land and make a new image(without the flag) and post it here for you to take and put your cities and such on it, or if you are limited in your map making skills or dont have any programs im sure someone would be willing to do it. I think i can even do it. Just need to make sure you have a list of cities, a capital city, and geological stuff handy.

Oh boy i can't wait for this to start. :p

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/259/delesamapwe6.th.jpg (http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=delesamapwe6.jpg)

The first country map. Very basic.

Delesa;13108238']http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/259/delesamapwe6.th.jpg (http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=delesamapwe6.jpg)

The first country map. Very basic.

It's quite a bit too small for me, and when i zoom in it's all compressed so i can't read it. I had a similar problem with your overall map but i could read the numbers.

I know how to fix that, photobucket just loaded my King's Colors for battle

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i189/seanmyhre/flag-battle.jpg

It's quite a bit too small for me, and when i zoom in it's all compressed so i can't read it. I had a similar problem with your overall map but i could read the numbers.

you can zoom in,i can't zoom in

Perhaps when considering the number of guns it should be looked at as a ratio, for example

1809 napoleon had a ratio of 3.87 guns per 1000 men.
At Borodino he had 4.5 guns.
Leipzig & waterloo 3.7 guns per 1000.
(Swords around a throne) JR Elting.

So perhaps if we took a standard of 4 guns per 1000 men it is going to
simplfy things. This would stop a nasty prolifercation of guns and a WW1 type war.


As for fortress guns why not make it again standard by the type of fortress,

Field Fortifications - Redoubts
City - Just 1 outer wall, minimum strength
small fortress
medium Fortress
maximimun Fortress

The fortresses could again be controlled by the city they guard or support. For example you wouldnt have a major fortress to just guard a bridge, for it would be too large. It would lack the civilian infrastructure.
Again you wouldn't have a small fortress guarding your capital because the city would have extended beyond the walls.

In the above case you just need to decide on the number of guns per fortress, and the fortress by the size of the city, the city by population size- again by a given number of population.

I am having that zoom in thing problem, if they are loaded into photobucket it seems to work well.

I like what you have done with the ist detail map. well done.

i cant believe how much photobucket hates me haha i'll find another way

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/259/delesamapwe6.jpg

test

EDIT: Does everyone see that?

bloody awesome... well done


BTW what is the ground scale, as I have the smallest nation can my neighbours fire at each other over my country ;) or does it take a week to cross or a month.

regards

Not sure yet i am trying to find out how far on average an army moved in a day. Because i want the map to me large. It shouldn't take a week to march across the entire map.

What happened to the original map?

Depending on the army 15-20 miles was average. Could do more but cohesion started affecting the army.
A good example is the march of the Grande Armee from Bolgone to Ulm in 1805.
It would also depend if the army was foraging or was paying for supplies, that would then bring in the problem of financial considerations.

On another point how detailed are you going in regard to diplomacy, is it to be abstract or will ruling cliques or families be involved. If its down to that level I would suggest a "Continental Chronicle" where players could submit articles about "affairs".

Unless you're the Prussians. Their average march speed was 3 miles per day.

What happened to the original map?

Which one?

EDIT:

15-20 and 3 are pretty far apart...

The Prussians were experiencing problems at the time and reformed later. But yeah the rest of the nations could march at least about 10 miles a night.

Alright so 10 miles/day it is.

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/2710/map21lj2.jpg

And tweeks that are needed? Prob need to shorten 100 miles, to make the map bigger?

Wow, Delesa, a map that works :eek:
(this being the latest one, imageshack I think).
Everything previous I haven't been able to view in detail, only as a thumbnail.

I like this one, just eagerly await a player for 7 and 10 to see who my neighbours are (apart from Angermanland).

Post your factbooks here! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=540050)

By putting all the factbooks in one place it makes it easier for people to find and research your nation.

Delesa;13108019']Yes number 8 was made for you, but i think i will reduce the size so you can have more fun with your army. Your flag is the one with British ensign?

union jack and southern cross, yah.

New Zealand flag :) [which is probably why Rechburg and i had the same one to begin with :)]

map making's not one of my strong points. my only requests/requirements are diverse [and logical] terrain, and a capital city [Angerwraith] in the middle.

now... who is it i border apart from Incognitia? [haven't been keeping track :S]

heh. my nation's less than 400 square miles. heck, at it's narrowest point it's barely more than 100 miles across! that's less than two week's march. hehe.

looking at that, i'm really thinking that mountains to the west [along my border with lot 7] would be a good thing, with a few narrow passes...

right now the quickest way from anywhere to anywhere, near enough, is straight through me! *laughs*

anyone feel like being nice and doing up a map of Angermanland?

meanwhile, i'll go start working on the social, political, and military portions of my fact book :)

[i so totally lost what i was going to say when i started writing this :S]

edit: oh yeah: the various seas, lakes, and continents need names, if only for reference points in fact books.

I dont understand what your flag is... Is it the one i put on the map?

As for the ocean lets call it the 'Azure Ocean', and the channel 'The Kings' Channel'

As for continents i donno....

Delesa;13109729']I dont understand what your flag is... Is it the one i put on the map?

As for the ocean lets call it the 'Azure Ocean', and the channel 'The Kings' Channel'

As for continents i donno....

well, 'cept that the one you put on the map seems to have acquired some white smudges from somewhere...

yeah. it's that one.

Laurentia and Gondwana for the ancient Earth Continents?

Sorry to cut in, but have I been kicked out yet?

I thought they were Laurasia and Gondwanaland.

Also I think my nation will be stubbornly referring to the King's Channel as the Inner Sea.
(Why would it be King's channel when there are many Kings?)

Oh wow, great map so far.

Great map! Looking magnificent so far. I'm afraid I'll be unable to post a factbook until tomorrow evening, though... Hopely that isn't a problem?

well, 'cept that the one you put on the map seems to have acquired some white smudges from somewhere...

yeah. it's that one.

The smudges are a filter to make it look smoother, i didn't have time to edit the flags properly.

Also I think my nation will be stubbornly referring to the King's Channel as the Inner Sea.
(Why would it be King's channel when there are many Kings?)

Thats why i put Kings' as in multiple not King's as in singular. Refer to it as you want, these are the names that are just going to show up on the map.

Laurentia and Gondwana for the ancient Earth Continents?

I like, but i will do a little research and find the original names just cause there is a little conflict.

Sorry to cut in, but have I been kicked out yet?

Are you the one waiting for someone to drop out?

Great map! Looking magnificent so far. I'm afraid I'll be unable to post a factbook until tomorrow evening, though... Hopely that isn't a problem?

No no not at all, we can't start till we fill it up.

Sadly, yes. Had I been here sooner this probably wouldn't have happened. Nice map by the way.

Sorry for double posting and being a nuisance, but is the factbook only open to those actively participating in this rp?

Sorry for double posting and being a nuisance, but is the factbook only open to those actively participating in this rp?

Yes it is, but like those two guys have till tomorrow to post something

UPDATE:

Northern Continent - Laurentia

Southern Continent - Gondwana

added some stuff to my fact book.

a stripped down version of my OoB [just the generaly outline, rather than every unit's equipment, officer, sub sections, and designation], some geographic information [i'm never going to be able to do a map myself, so this is what you get], and actual numbers on my army. [it barely exceeds 100 000 combat effectives, all up, due to training costs of all sorts, logistical branches, etc]

if there's still a place for another player I actually had a previous RP a bit like this so have a fully drawn up army of about the size specified.

if there's still a place for another player I actually had a previous RP a bit like this so have a fully drawn up army of about the size specified.

Lets see what you got, those two guys haven't responded

Sadly, yes. Had I been here sooner this probably wouldn't have happened. Nice map by the way.

Now did you show us your stuff?

Click on the link to my factbook in my signature to see a history, and my military information and stuff has already been posted. I will write another factbook for this particular RP shortly.

Delesa, I'd have a couple of humble requests for making it easier to get a good overview of the whole RP:

1. Put the map or a link to it into the first post,

2. Make a Country X=Map Icon X - type of a list under it.


I also think that we should try to make a starting plot for this RP, meaning what sort of relationship does each country have with each other, what are the traditional alliances and who has hated who for the last few centuries, who wants to become economical power, who wants to carve an empire, etc.

Kronstadtia, for one, would like to be kind of a "disputed land" between its more centralized and stronger neighbors, each of them willing to take its deep iron mines and fertile grain fields, while its duke is desperately trying to get foreign supporter to keep them out. =Duchy of Warsaw.

Or something.

Opinions?

Stoklomolvi Factbook (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13114146)

Delesa, I'd have a couple of humble requests for making it easier to get a good overview of the whole RP:

1. Put the map or a link to it into the first post,

2. Make a Country X=Map Icon X - type of a list under it.


I also think that we should try to make a starting plot for this RP, meaning what sort of relationship does each country have with each other, what are the traditional alliances and who has hated who for the last few centuries, who wants to become economical power, who wants to carve an empire, etc.

Kronstadtia, for one, would like to be kind of a "disputed land" between its more centralized and stronger neighbors, each of them willing to take its deep iron mines and fertile grain fields, while its duke is desperately trying to get foreign supporter to keep them out. =Duchy of Warsaw.

Or something.

Opinions?



Yes. so Very Very Yes.

so many of these things bog down in the opening diplomacy.

so far Incognitia and i have an general alliance. it'd be nice to have some history for once.

I agree with Kronstadtia, a centralised place for the map would be ideal, and yes a common thread would be good. The difficulty would be making sense of the variable histories via many of the fact books into a common history.

Also the detail of the maps needs to be done by one person so all geography is on a common thread. For example on one side of one border you could have lush forests and snowy mountains, on the other side just a few miles away- barren desert.
If a mountain range runs the length of one country, it is likely that it may run into some of the next, the same with large river etc.

That sounds like a good idea Kronstadia. It would work and the histories could be edited to make it work.

Delesa, I'd have a couple of humble requests for making it easier to get a good overview of the whole RP:

1. Put the map or a link to it into the first post,

2. Make a Country X=Map Icon X - type of a list under it.


I also think that we should try to make a starting plot for this RP, meaning what sort of relationship does each country have with each other, what are the traditional alliances and who has hated who for the last few centuries, who wants to become economical power, who wants to carve an empire, etc.

Kronstadtia, for one, would like to be kind of a "disputed land" between its more centralized and stronger neighbors, each of them willing to take its deep iron mines and fertile grain fields, while its duke is desperately trying to get foreign supporter to keep them out. =Duchy of Warsaw.

Or something.

Opinions?

Putting the map on the first post was something i was going to get around to once the map was finished.

As for history and such that is a ver good idea. One thing i can say is that my king(less then the queen) wants to go down in the history books, defeating all those who are against the United Kingdom. So if anyone whats an allaince with such a man(& woman) give out a shout.

My kingdom is one that relies heavily on honor and trust. You back-stab us, you have had yourself an enemy for life, stay on our good side and we will assist you in many ways.

Stoklomolvi - I need a location for you, 7 or 10.

I think I posted this earlier, but I wanted 10.

Attention all Governments

All diplomatic Messages can be relayed to the Duchy of Rechburg at

Rechburg@royal.net.

or
msn
bazta@hotmail.com

Im sick of waiting, so lets move on, lets have that area open for the taking in RPing. Anyone who wants to join afterwards can have an island. Alright?

We venture forth then.

Rgr dat!

Fordock - Alliance?

I will just finish the maps, but we can start with the RP, politics and crap. Raiseing armies, heating conflicts. But because people haven't given names for cities and the type of geographical landscape i dont know what you people expect me to do. Unless your doing it yourselve.

So...this is the start?

From Duchy of Rechburg

The Duchy of Rechburg is open to all parties concerning alliances.
At this stage we are tending towards mutual defensive alliances with our neighbours, but will not rule out any reasonable proposal.

Delesa;13118109']Fordock - Alliance?

I will just finish the maps, but we can start with the RP, politics and crap. Raiseing armies, heating conflicts. But because people haven't given names for cities and the type of geographical landscape i dont know what you people expect me to do. Unless your doing it yourselve.

About the map - I'd like to have mountains and hills covering the western 1/3 of Kronstadtia, some rivers running from there through a plain that covers the "finger"-like north-eastern half of the country.

We need a system for an easy checking of who's who in the map...

[OOC: I'm guessing I'm in...]

To the Foreign Minister of the Duchy of Rechburg

The Kingdom of Stoklomolvi wishes to establish a Mutual Offensive and Defensive Pact with the Duchy of Rechburg.

Signed,
King Elijah Stuyonovich

To his Majesty King Elijah Stuyonovich

On behalf of the Duke and the Duchy Of Rechburg your message of a defensive and mutual offensive alliance has been agreed upon.
Messengers to follow to exchange details of this pact which we are sure will be mutually beneficial.


Foriegn Minister
Duchy of Rechburg

First, once im done the maps im gonna start another thread of maps

And second I'll start the IC thread soon enough, this is now the OOC/Idea Thread

Oh yeah and Angermanland's map...

http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=angermanlandez6.jpg

(Did it in 15 min, dont give me a hard time)

IC THREAD NOW OPEN (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13118287#post13118287)

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/3109/tkosst4.png

Use this flag instead of my normal one for this RP, since this is the flag of the Kingdom of Stoklomolvi.

Alright

As for telling people what nation is which, I did put captions on my copy of the map with who was where (see attachment)

Ah yes thank you i did that too i just forgot to post it, are you handy with maps? maybe you can help me make all these maps

City names for Rechburg

Ratisbon
Boigen
Abbach
Weillohe
Paring
Kofering
Hinkofen
Dunzling

To name but a few.
I would help if I could but I am a novice at it.

well, apart from [part of] one mountain range and my capital city, almost none of that map matches my description... [quality doesn't worry me though]

that aside...

i need....



A Plan!

i shall be working on that and will post in the IC thread once i come up with something :)

map making's not one of my strong points. my only requests/requirements are diverse [and logical] terrain, and a capital city [Angerwraith] in the middle.

looking at that, i'm really thinking that mountains to the west [along my border with lot 7] would be a good thing, with a few narrow passes...

Looks like i did the bare minimum, if you wanna say you have few passes then go right ahead, it only a 'rough' sketch

Nice, very nice

A temporary and basic map of Stoklomolvi:

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/923/napoleonicmaprr0.png

i realized that the updated map isn't my updated map, it has no names (which i put on) or even Stoklomolvi.

Sorry about that i apologize i will have to fix it tomorrow!

Whoops, I forgot to add the river than ran through Vladistov and branched off in-between Moskuvy that ran through both Moskuvy and Port Stoklomolvi into the sea. The other end traveled between the mountains into other territories.

Delesa;13119116']Looks like i did the bare minimum, if you wanna say you have few passes then go right ahead, it only a 'rough' sketch

... like i said, not complaining about the quality.

just the fact that it very much doesn't match the description in my fact book


thing is, when you put all these little country's maps together, they should match up at the edges, to begin with.

[the hills in Stoklomolvi's north should extend over my border a bit, the river in my south runs along the border with Barkozy (and then probably past Vladirimigrad on it's way to the sea)on the basis that the border was marked as "on the river". you drew it quite a way in from the border, Delesa. there were some other things too, but those two were quite significant]

i note that no one seems to have road connecting one territory to the next. this seems rather unlikely, especially for the landlocked nations. roads make for easier travel, and also concentrate travelers for easier inspection and taxation.

I think, we should make a separate thread for these maps. Every player contributes one map, or if they do not wish to draw one tell another player all of the specs for their nation. Then, someone who is somewhat skilled with pixels should save the map as a PNG file, not a JPG!! PNG files tend to be smaller if the file itself is small, while the jpg screws things up with its compression. You could hand me the task of drawing all of the maps, but if you were to do that then don't expect them done until a few days later. I have a life outside of Nationstates too! Though I wish I didn't...nawt

Delesa;13118721']Ah yes thank you i did that too i just forgot to post it, are you handy with maps? maybe you can help me make all these maps

I can play around in Paint, and once I've got something I can whack it onto photobucket. That's about the limit.
Seems Stoklomolvi might be better suited to it..I can wait a few days for decent mappage.

Oh, on the point of Stokolites, from the IC thread, I was using that as the slightly derogatory name given to Stoklomolvi people by Incognitians.

I agree, a good map is worth waiting for.

Ah, I see now. Heh, workin' up a war I see...

Sorry for the rather hasty update, it's getting late here and I had a busy day. However, what I really think to be the most important thing at the moment, is the

WAY TO EASILY KNOW WHAT COUNTRY IS WHAT ICON IN THE WORLD MAP.

I get confused all the time, glancing at the map and the IC posts, trying to keep track on who's bordering who and so on... maybe it's just me being stupid, but it's really still giving me a headache =(

I propose to make a Napoleonic-era map thread. Linking to it from here, of course.

Thats the plan

There the front page has a map with names until i get mine finished

Barkozy, could you, perhaps, be persuaded to post on the nature of the effects of my spys and agitators within your nation, please?

they're stirring up pretty much anyone they can get their hands on who're likely to oppose the government for whatever reason [be it as base as personal gain, or as high minded but impractical as the belief that, say, communism is a better system, or just disgust with the way the government is handling things]

Barkozy, could you, perhaps, be persuaded to post on the nature of the effects of my spys and agitators within your nation, please?

they're stirring up pretty much anyone they can get their hands on who're likely to oppose the government for whatever reason [be it as base as personal gain, or as high minded but impractical as the belief that, say, communism is a better system, or just disgust with the way the government is handling things]

Sure, sure, I have been quite busy for a while. You can expect a post sometime today.

Delesa Im wondering if you could let me know the effects and results of my foriegn affairs minister's visit to your country.

What so you mean by effects? I was just about to put up a responce, I haven't been feeling well.

Dont tell me I missed a Napoleonic RP.

*Strangles someone*

Any room for Frozopia?

Why yes your in luck, plot #7!

But I was invading that one? Oh well looks like the indeginous people formed a government.

Brilliant. Better read up on the rp so far....

Eh above post. Invading NPC's is never cool.....

But I was invading that one? Oh well looks like the indeginous people formed a government.

Just attack someone elese haha I wanted to get someone in that area

Frozo, yay! Welcome in my firend, please make sure to establish good relations with your neighbours (me).

err.. while it wasn't exactly an Invasion... lot 7 has sorta had it's eastern edge nibbled by colonials from my territory... so if you could shut the border west a little? :P (or at least, Frozo, RP that bit as being... less than perfectly defined border wise or controlled by your government?)


EDIT: while i'm not changing the below, because it still [mostly] holds, i notice that apparently i missed something in the details. it still assumes at least some level of incompetence on the part of my guys, and no one with any ambition in your nation. /Edit
Edit the second: basically, the entire tone of the following is wrong, while the objection still stands. sorry :S /edit the second

also, Barkozy, i'm rather... dissatisfied ... with the effect of my agitators...

that was just Weak. i mean, come on. do you really think i'd be stupid enough to try and get them to work Togeather when they're that different? are you trying to tell me that NO one is ambitious enough to take the deal Anyway, with such a WEAK government [as stated in your own fact book?]

detailed information was so sparsely available that i Couldn't write more without godmoding something awful, so i set it up for at least some IC interaction. i was setting up to start the war that this RP was meant to be about.

and you just shut it down.

not even "our police caught up with your guys and did them for sedition [or whatever]" just "my guys are all so awesome that nothing you can say will convince them that they don't like my Weak Revolutionary Government"

which, frankly, is just wrong. there is no way they'd have no effect. there's no way No one would be tempted [even if they didn't end up acting immediately] and the entire thing is (while not as bad) in a similar vein to the Austian situation in my signature.

the method of failure Also doesn't match with the statement "we expect rebellion shortly" because, primarily, you didn't DO anything. no "the people are dissatisfied" "oh, do this then" "right, they're happy again", which would have been RPing a valid [if cheap] response, but simply "no, i don't want it to happen, so it doesn't.

I'm not sure if it counts as godmoding, because, admittedly, it's your stuff. but it's still very poor RP.

... that's all i'll say there, because anything further just gets more ranty and repetitive and possibly less polite. [things that annoy me tend to cause that kind of thing]

anyway, Frozo, good to have you around. nice to have someone i know i can beat on the battlefield :D

No offence, but I could not read any of what you just wrote. It was too messy.

err.. while it wasn't exactly an Invasion... lot 7 has sorta had it's eastern edge nibbled by colonials from my territory... so if you could shut the border west a little? :P (or at least, Frozo, RP that bit as being... less than perfectly defined border wise or controlled by your government?)


EDIT: while i'm not changing the below, because it still [mostly] holds, i notice that apparently i missed something in the details. it still assumes at least some level of incompetence on the part of my guys, and no one with any ambition in your nation. /Edit
Edit the second: basically, the entire tone of the following is wrong, while the objection still stands. sorry :S /edit the second

also, Barkozy, i'm rather... dissatisfied ... with the effect of my agitators...

that was just Weak. i mean, come on. do you really think i'd be stupid enough to try and get them to work Togeather when they're that different? are you trying to tell me that NO one is ambitious enough to take the deal Anyway, with such a WEAK government [as stated in your own fact book?]

detailed information was so sparsely available that i Couldn't write more without godmoding something awful, so i set it up for at least some IC interaction. i was setting up to start the war that this RP was meant to be about.

and you just shut it down.

not even "our police caught up with your guys and did them for sedition [or whatever]" just "my guys are all so awesome that nothing you can say will convince them that they don't like my Weak Revolutionary Government"

which, frankly, is just wrong. there is no way they'd have no effect. there's no way No one would be tempted [even if they didn't end up acting immediately] and the entire thing is (while not as bad) in a similar vein to the Austian situation in my signature.

the method of failure Also doesn't match with the statement "we expect rebellion shortly" because, primarily, you didn't DO anything. no "the people are dissatisfied" "oh, do this then" "right, they're happy again", which would have been RPing a valid [if cheap] response, but simply "no, i don't want it to happen, so it doesn't.

I'm not sure if it counts as godmoding, because, admittedly, it's your stuff. but it's still very poor RP.

... that's all i'll say there, because anything further just gets more ranty and repetitive and possibly less polite. [things that annoy me tend to cause that kind of thing]

anyway, Frozo, good to have you around. nice to have someone i know i can beat on the battlefield :D

I think you have some warped idea that people just love the idea of iron fists hanging over them. Now, admittedly, the post was short and sparse, but really you basically said 'I WANT TO AGITATE EVERYONE AND STIR UP GENERAL REBELLION FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS SOME'. I simply said people weren't buying vague 'GO KILL YOUR WEAK GOVERNMENT' rumors. I mean before you go telling people they can do it(and i doubt that they probably could), you have to get them to want to. Simply 'agitating' in a nonspecific manner isn't really enough for me to go on so I assumed it was just nonspecific ranting.

I really should have been a little more open and less decisive with my post with such little information and communication. I think without enough communication, my post might have come off as 'MY PEOPLE ARE TOO AWESOME TO BE CONVINCED'.

I will be the first to say that I have a lot of blame here. The first strike against me was a lack of detail in my factbook. The second, that our only communication was via the forum. I'd be willing to answer further questions and come up with something much more to your approval via an IM program or IRC.

Thanks for the IC Delesa, sorry to hear you havent been well, I hope things are looking better.

I think you have some warped idea that people just love the idea of iron fists hanging over them. Now, admittedly, the post was short and sparse, but really you basically said 'I WANT TO AGITATE EVERYONE AND STIR UP GENERAL REBELLION FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS SOME'. I simply said people weren't buying vague 'GO KILL YOUR WEAK GOVERNMENT' rumors. I mean before you go telling people they can do it(and i doubt that they probably could), you have to get them to want to. Simply 'agitating' in a nonspecific manner isn't really enough for me to go on so I assumed it was just nonspecific ranting.

I really should have been a little more open and less decisive with my post with such little information and communication. I think without enough communication, my post might have come off as 'MY PEOPLE ARE TOO AWESOME TO BE CONVINCED'.

I will be the first to say that I have a lot of blame here. The first strike against me was a lack of detail in my factbook. The second, that our only communication was via the forum. I'd be willing to answer further questions and come up with something much more to your approval via an IM program or IRC.

yah. lack of communication was the big one there. i'll tg you my msn address [assuming you use that system?]
sorry about the attitude in that post. I've had... rather a lot of experience with valid tactics and strategies dieing because the other person just doesn't get it :S one of many contributing factors there.

and, really, what they'd be trying to do [and I'll admit My details were lacking too, i didn't anticipate it just getting shut down like that :S] would be to stur the different groups to revolt for their own reasons with Angerman Support [and supply], [possibly Who was supporting not even disclosed] not trying to get them to support an my invasion :)

anyway. i'll send that tg now.

well, words aside, i'm gonna go re-read and act as if the thing failed completely [as the post already says it did]

not sure how i'll justify ICly... not only did they fail... they failed without being Stopped.... and that leaves me in a Very awkward situation...


then again, i'm rather good at pulling off the spectacular in awkward situations. [not always a good thing, unfortunately, but whatever.]

edit: also, Stoklomolvi, you sent an ambassadors. you didn't say which was going where, your bribe is kinda silly, all things considered, and my king is still sitting in his office waiting for your guy to Explain himself.

i can't make the relevant post for the espionage guys until my king is freed up Anyway. so, i think i'm going to move on to slinging him out on his ear for impertinence or something and moving on.

yay for me being the bad guy :S

so, i shall now post to move things along.

edit the second: i'm reasonably sure you can't claim it's been Less than a week since my guys last council, what with the back and forth messages from one continent to another. [or even one nation to another. land distances and roads being what they are.] and my wording is vague enough to allow it to be more.