NationStates Jolt Archive

All those who put there magics into making it. This is to prevent massive armies of golems or whatever you esle you make.

Well crap. Can I just create the bodies without placing my casters at risk?

(Has evil thoughts of dominating Valgardian Mages)

*Shakes head*

At?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12258512

Here's my factbook, everything look okay?

This is getting interesting...hehehehe. *fades back into the shadows*

Well crap. Can I just create the bodies without placing my casters at risk?

(Has evil thoughts of dominating Valgardian Mages)You know what NO, as I have allowed more magic then I wanted and you know what you are KOBOLDs a race with limited ability and you cannot have more powerful mages due to the fact that you cannot claim such as the price of which would to be greatly limit their numbers and the size of your army. As well, since you have a large army you cannot have a superior side force then anyone else and also you cannot burrow under an entire army, in battle, and then kill them like that. Also, your traps would only catch small amounts of my army if I were to go to open war.

To provide an example Thrashia has a much smaller, but greatly more powerful soldiers on average then other peoples. Yet, if were to manage to conquer his country it would be a long battle due to his soldiers, though many could be killed, would be able to wage a very effective war effort by using their superior overall abilities to hide and wage a warfare inside my Empire.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12258512

Here's my factbook, everything look okay?Looks quite good, stole my idea of coming out the north though.;)

Yet, I would say you have to many wizards. So cut their numbers in half or have pretty weak mages and then there will be no problem.

This is getting interesting...hehehehe. *fades back into the shadows**Looks around then pulls Thrashia out of a hat*;)

Looks quite good, stole my idea of coming out the north though.;)

Yet, I would say you have to many wizards. So cut their numbers in half or have pretty weak mages and then there will be no problem.

My Drakonian Warlocks will be fairly weak due to the fact that they can't fully control their powers yet. I'll cut down the number of Lathorian casters since they'll be much more powerful.

My Drakonian Warlocks will be fairly weak due to the fact that they can't fully control their powers yet. I'll cut down the number of Lathorian casters since they'll be much more powerful.Thanks for that and your explantion is quite good. Also, your factbook overall is quite good and does not need to be expanded or fixed beyond what you want to.

Have you forgotten about me in Diplomacy? Hope not ;)

Have you forgotten about me in Diplomacy? Hope not ;)Sorry, I habe replied now.

My internal affairs thread is up. Theres some stuff concerning you in there, Scandinvans.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=516071

You know what NO, as I have allowed more magic then I wanted and you know what you are KOBOLDs a race with limited ability and you cannot have more powerful mages due to the fact that you cannot claim such as the price of which would to be greatly limit their numbers and the size of your army. As well, since you have a large army you cannot have a superior side force then anyone else and also you cannot burrow under an entire army, in battle, and then kill them like that. Also, your traps would only catch small amounts of my army if I were to go to open war.

To provide an example Thrashia has a much smaller, but greatly more powerful soldiers on average then other peoples. Yet, if were to manage to conquer his country it would be a long battle due to his soldiers, though many could be killed, would be able to wage a very effective war effort by using their superior overall abilities to hide and wage a warfare inside my Empire.

Meh. It was worth a shot.

However, their traps are their best hope. It would take a lot for them to even consider a direct head-on assault. Power-wise, your soldiers are still of a superior quality to the rank-and-files, and training capacity is limited to one citadel.

As a matter of fact, I have to rely on demolitions and traps the most, because if I sent my entire population out they would be decimated, trained or not. Unlike the goblins, 95% of the population is workforce, elites comprise maybe 10-12, and will all be named, and the military is primarily comprised of specialists and non-combatants. The whole point is they have to magnify their power with ambushes and stealth. Magic is commonplace, but only as far as their extensive needs for it in trapbuilding. If my best are stuck assembling traps, they cannot help elsewhere. This is key.

Their biggest weakness is that their special characters, simply because they cannot be everywhere at once, despite their comparitively higher power than the military.

They have enormous advantages when avoiding combat or overwhelming odds because of preparation. Note that none of the power available to them is practically useful without preparation.

Given time, they can and will undermine your defences.

I really couldn't see them charging down a hill screaming.


With your 'tunnel under an army and kill them', it would be also the result of preparation. If I can bait your army into a detonation zone, then they deserve what they get. They're fast, but not THAT fast.

Heh.
It'll be interesting to see what happens when Goblins and Kobolds meet each other in battle and try to undermine each other.
Tunnel wars...like Snakes and Ladders only more fun ;)

I can just imagine some sort of sequence where they breach each other's tunnels, jump in shock, and run like the dickens. Both sides.

Meh. It was worth a shot.

However, their traps are their best hope. It would take a lot for them to even consider a direct head-on assault. Power-wise, your soldiers are still of a superior quality to the rank-and-files, and training capacity is limited to one citadel.

As a matter of fact, I have to rely on demolitions and traps the most, because if I sent my entire population out they would be decimated, trained or not. Unlike the goblins, 95% of the population is workforce, elites comprise maybe 10-12, and will all be named, and the military is primarily comprised of specialists and non-combatants. The whole point is they have to magnify their power with ambushes and stealth. Magic is commonplace, but only as far as their extensive needs for it in trapbuilding.

Their biggest weakness is that their special characters, simply because they cannot be everywhere at once, despite their comparitively higher power than the military.

They have enormous advantages when avoiding combat or overwhelming odds because of preparation. Note that none of the power available to them is practically useful without preparation.

Given time, they can and will undermine your defences.

I really couldn't see them charging down a hill screaming.


With your 'tunnel under an army and kill them', it would be also the result of preparation. If I can bait your army into a detonation zone, then they deserve what they get. They're fast, but not THAT fast.Okay seems good, sorry for my anger I just woke up ten minutes, before posting, ago not knowing where I was.;)

Alright, you have to know you are fighting an Empire which relies on a well armed and trained army which will attempt to draw you out for open battle which will allow it to cut swathes from miltia and leevies, which your race may well rely on in the event of a big battle, so it works out.

As well, there no big old explosives, which the rules states, yet traps can well prove to be a factor which turns a battle into your favor.

I can just imagine some sort of sequence where they breach each other's tunnels, jump in shock, and run like the dickens. Both sides.Tunnels are when I sick the goblins on you.:cool:

Im not sure, it would depend on the mood of the Goblins in question...I would give a %50/50 chance of running away or launching themselves at the Kobolds with pickaxes :P
But I think both sides would know the others were there pretty well in advance, Goblins would be using powder to remove anything that picks couldnt take out quickly. That and after the first encounter I think both sides would be expecting each other in tunnels.


*prods The Scandinvans*
Youve got Goblin raiders attacking your merchants and running around our boarder. Bloody Spear bast'ids, the lot of 'em :P

Heh.
It'll be interesting to see what happens when Goblins and Kobolds meet each other in battle and try to undermine each other.
Tunnel wars...like Snakes and Ladders only more fun ;)The Goblins I think will make a powerful tool in war for me due to those reasons.:p

*prods The Scandinvans*
Youve got Goblin raiders attacking your merchants and running around our boarder. Bloody Spear bast'ids, the lot of 'em :PFor now I will allow it to progress as to allow a few raids to take place before my men come and kill them so as to make my Empire gain some good publicity.

That and every last one of them is a vicious little bastard who'll keep on fighting as long as he has at least one limb left :P
Maybe I should have somebody tell the tale of the warrior who chopped a Goblin's legs off before he got distracted, then had to go home with a nasty infection in his leg where a Goblin bit him ;)

And the raiders are under the command of your fallen Valgardian. 'E's gonna be one nasty fella'. Note that he attacked some mages convoys >_>

That and every last one of them is a vicious little bastard who'll keep on fighting as long as he has at least one limb left :P
Maybe I should have somebody tell the tale of the warrior who chopped a Goblin's legs off before he got distracted, then had to go home with a nasty infection in his leg where a Goblin bit him ;)

And the raiders are under the command of your fallen Valgardian. 'E's gonna be one nasty fella'. Note that he attacked some mages convoys >_>Alright, but due to my non-Ns life:( I have to go.:(

As an example, if you were sieging the citadel with your entire army and all the goblins, I would have a problem to do with division of responsibilities.

I could hold off your army indefinitely if I deployed every one of my casters to maintain a huge prismatic wall, and it certainly would, that means that those casters cannot be committed to the tunnel war. Then I would need to deploy the fighters to the tunnels, which in turn means that they cannot guard the casters as they maintain the wall.

Stealth characters are nigh-on-impossible to detect and can through skill and magic probably go round and strike at the command post, but they cannot be deployed for defence, because of their skill set.

Going head on, the best army I've got is the special characters, so your tactics would include dividing their responsibilities so they cannot move as one group.

Maybe my three "envoys" will wander across this raider band and deal with them...

Potentially taking the ninja with them.

Maybe my three "envoys" will wander across this raider band and deal with them...

Have fun, theres about 2,000 Goblins in each raid :P

Have fun, theres about 2,000 Goblins in each raid :P

Ah, then that should be enough to warm up Captain Saito.

Ah, then that should be enough to warm up Captain Saito.

You underestimate them, Im thinking.

And what happened to 'nobody capable of killing 1,000 guys all buy himself'? :P

I suppose a case could be made for the fact that there's three of them, though it's stretching it a bit.

Although mine are considerably above the norm in a sort of tradeoff. A small number of individuals have immense, extraordinary power while the rest are below average.

I'll probably bring in a couple of other chamber agents to the fray to make the curve a little more evened out. You know, fill in the other roles to make it more believable.

I just meant that Goblins arent going to fight in a human manner. At least half of them would run off into the rocks and such as soon as a fight broke out. It would take a week to find them all, most likely more since your in Goblin country and most of that is full of tunnels.
Meanwhile the rest are going to be chucking goblin bombs, poisoned darts and arrows until they get within cutting range, at which point theyre going to be attacking with four limbs and a set of teeth they never brush.
Even ultra-powerful mages get infections :P

Looks FUN.

Alright. Okay I am going to throw my territory.. gosh I sould greedy but..


I want starting from the mouth of the river just east of the middle island too the far left of the map too a directly down-to-the-right-diagonal where that black sea type ocean, and the river going north into the moutains (Or rather the black line) Actually that lake around the middle of there would be a great place to throw the line of territory.

If you need me to tell you which race I will be, it is going to be the Orrorin, which are basically like humans except with the major features of their civilization be based on the military and the economy. They are logical beings and hold morals and values to them dearly.

So.. is this okay? (I will do a better description, just need to know if I am accepted.

As an example, if you were sieging the citadel with your entire army and all the goblins, I would have a problem to do with division of responsibilities.

I could hold off your army indefinitely if I deployed every one of my casters to maintain a huge prismatic wall, and it certainly would, that means that those casters cannot be committed to the tunnel war. Then I would need to deploy the fighters to the tunnels, which in turn means that they cannot guard the casters as they maintain the wall.

Stealth characters are nigh-on-impossible to detect and can through skill and magic probably go round and strike at the command post, but they cannot be deployed for defence, because of their skill set.

Going head on, the best army I've got is the special characters, so your tactics would include dividing their responsibilities so they cannot move as one group.Special characters cannot win the war and they cannot hold off a good part of tmy army either. As well, magic forces cannot make such a force indefinately as a being can only maintain magic for so long before they either get to tired, collaspe, or die.

Since the special characters are only supposed to be champions in battle they serve as a force to inspire your forces and keep them from fleeing, Yey, my army as a professional forces can keep up a battle for as long as it takes.

Ah, then that should be enough to warm up Captain Saito.The rule stands that your guys would be killed as a special character can only kill 90 by themself, so your forces would not even kill a quarter due to their being so many.

For example though if your king fought he would be worth 10 special characters.

You underestimate them, Im thinking.

And what happened to 'nobody capable of killing 1,000 guys all buy himself'? :PThe rule stands so Jade Star has the better part of the argument.

Looks FUN.

Alright. Okay I am going to throw my territory.. gosh I sould greedy but..


I want starting from the mouth of the river just east of the middle island too the far left of the map too a directly down-to-the-right-diagonal where that black sea type ocean, and the river going north into the moutains (Or rather the black line) Actually that lake around the middle of there would be a great place to throw the line of territory.

If you need me to tell you which race I will be, it is going to be the Orrorin, which are basically like humans except with the major features of their civilization be based on the military and the economy. They are logical beings and hold morals and values to them dearly.

So.. is this okay? (I will do a better description, just need to know if I am accepted.Accepted, except can you make a better phrased statement where you want to be?

So theres kind of a...scale?
Like...'Special' charecters, 'powerful' charecters and 'VIPs'?

So theres kind of a...scale?
Like...'Special' charecters, 'powerful' charecters and 'VIPs'?Yes, there is a scale of lead charatcers, powerful characters, and important persons.

Okay I shall see to it.

Okay, my computer is working again. just FYI I asked Kanami to tell that, because my computer isn't cooperating tonight.

I'm having some trouble reading this map, but may I join too?

I will be playing as the Arch Duchy of Elshar ni Kaitadra. Assuming I am allowed.
Basically my people are an offshoot of humanity, the Yelsa, they have pale complexions, they tend to be dark haired and have come on mass from across the sea fleeing the destruction of their island homes. Green eyes are most common, magic is rare but powerful in my people The military of my people is divided up into three basic types.

Large-scale trained religious converts.
These are people who follow the God of War in all things and have such forsaken their normal role in society. Some people do this to escape poverty, others due to overwhelming faith in their God and still others do it due to a subconscious blood-lust.

Militant orders.
There are several of such orders.
They can range from something like the Order of the Crimson Arrow, which is selectively aimed at users of the Longbow, to the Hammers of Iptha who are heavily armoured folk specialised at swinging their mighty war hammers.

Lords' professional soldiers.
These are men who are employed in the service of one or another Lord, they are not average arms men however, but high-class soldiers, usually with many years of training and vastly superior equipment, most of cavalry is also made up of these men.

My people believe strongly in four gods who control the universe, they represent intellect, war, nature and fortune as well as many other things, for instance Saama-lel the God of Fortune also holds domain over the sea and as such all sea goers would pray to him. Iptha Rehre the God of War is involved in any type of battle, be it political or physical, a duel or a mass battle.

Yelsa art is mainly etched on stone or metal, or delicately drawn on thin paper. Great works of art are sometimes forged in silver or gold but the essence of Yelsa artwork is mainly hard lines and planes, few but a Yelsa would truly appreciate the beauty of a stone engraving of a rocky mountain.
Yelsa also greatly appreciated strings music such as would be played on a violin or cello.

Yelsa are technologically advanced, they have skills in both wood and stonework as well as metallurgy however at the same time they can be stubborn and glad to remain ignorant of the true beauty of the world.

Yelsa are a hardy folk, and they always have been, they believe they are a chosen folk who are destined to rule the world in the name of their Four Gods, till the "Day of Return" when all returns to the nothing that birthed it and once more the people are one with their Gods.

Despite this Yelsa place a great deal of value on a word or promise and while they can be close-minded they have no qualms with forming alliance to grow stronger or become safer.

How was that?

(I don't mind where you put me, just make it rather large please. Is there a map that might have the names of certain locations?"

Uldarious! Nice to see you old friend. Glad you could join the party. *thumbs up*

ps- Scand...I am still waiting for your ranger's reactions to Matamoto.

I'm having some trouble reading this map, but may I join too?

I will be playing as the Arch Duchy of Elshar ni Kaitadra. Assuming I am allowed.
Basically my people are an offshoot of humanity, the Yelsa, they have pale complexions, they tend to be dark haired and have come on mass from across the sea fleeing the destruction of their island homes. Green eyes are most common, magic is rare but powerful in my people The military of my people is divided up into three basic types.

Large-scale trained religious converts.
These are people who follow the God of War in all things and have such forsaken their normal role in society. Some people do this to escape poverty, others due to overwhelming faith in their God and still others do it due to a subconscious blood-lust.

Militant orders.
There are several of such orders.
They can range from something like the Order of the Crimson Arrow, which is selectively aimed at users of the Longbow, to the Hammers of Iptha who are heavily armoured folk specialised at swinging their mighty war hammers.

Lords' professional soldiers.
These are men who are employed in the service of one or another Lord, they are not average arms men however, but high-class soldiers, usually with many years of training and vastly superior equipment, most of cavalry is also made up of these men.

My people believe strongly in four gods who control the universe, they represent intellect, war, nature and fortune as well as many other things, for instance Saama-lel the God of Fortune also holds domain over the sea and as such all sea goers would pray to him. Iptha Rehre the God of War is involved in any type of battle, be it political or physical, a duel or a mass battle.

Yelsa art is mainly etched on stone or metal, or delicately drawn on thin paper. Great works of art are sometimes forged in silver or gold but the essence of Yelsa artwork is mainly hard lines and planes, few but a Yelsa would truly appreciate the beauty of a stone engraving of a rocky mountain.
Yelsa also greatly appreciated strings music such as would be played on a violin or cello.

Yelsa are technologically advanced, they have skills in both wood and stonework as well as metallurgy however at the same time they can be stubborn and glad to remain ignorant of the true beauty of the world.

Yelsa are a hardy folk, and they always have been, they believe they are a chosen folk who are destined to rule the world in the name of their Four Gods, till the "Day of Return" when all returns to the nothing that birthed it and once more the people are one with their Gods.

Despite this Yelsa place a great deal of value on a word or promise and while they can be close-minded they have no qualms with forming alliance to grow stronger or become safer.

How was that?

(I don't mind where you put me, just make it rather large please. Is there a map that might have the names of certain locations?"Looks very good, yet I am sad to say due to me being lazy the map does not have names for any specfic regions and the only things on it really are the borders of nations.

Uldarious! Nice to see you old friend. Glad you could join the party. *thumbs up*

ps- Scand...I am still waiting for your ranger's reactions to Matamoto.Check page seven as I have replied on that I habe replied.

The Commander of the Ranger group laughed and then said,” You should not approach a Valgardian high born unit like that as we are know for our policy of shoot first, ask later!” He again laughs as the statement was a joke.

Continuing he says,” Well welcome to the Empire and might I ask why are you talking to that Kobold creature over there as to which as he feeds you half-truths to their true purposes?”

Hey Thrashia!
Alright then I'll get started on a factbook right away! Just y'know, pick somewhere you think is suitable.
Oh what's the populations supposed to be like? a million men? Ten million? a hundred thousand? What's the limit what's the min?

Hey Thrashia!
Alright then I'll get started on a factbook right away! Just y'know, pick somewhere you think is suitable.
Oh what's the populations supposed to be like? a million men? a hundred thousand? What's the limit what's the min?All up to, yet I would suggest a population of between 8-27 (35 max) million people in a decent sized land, or you can be a population of a few million or even less.

What's wrong with knocking a few foot-sloggers out? And when did this ranger scout leader become a special character? Besides, hes not harmed and my guys get to have fun.

I'm thinking about thirty-two million men. My people are refugees but they come from a land that was filled with hundreds of millions of people and they've had some time to regrow their numbers.

What's wrong with knocking a few foot-sloggers out? And when did this ranger scout leader become a special character? Besides, hes not harmed and my guys get to have fun.Problem with that is that I said a Ranger Commander who is in charge of the protection of the forest and plus you having fun would result in your people declared criminals due to assualting Imperial soldiers.

I'm thinking about thirty-two million men. My people are refugees but they come from a land that was filled with hundreds of millions of people and they've had some time to regrow their numbers.Alright, sounds good as a few million managed to flee from their home land and have managed to recover some of their former strength of numbers.

Indeed, but even with a population of thirty-two million, my army stresses iron discipline and high levels of skill and order. Quality over quantity, etc.

Alright, yet know for example that my nation has a large professional army that could well fight your's soldier for soldier.

Problem with that is that I said a Ranger Commander who is in charge of the protection of the forest and plus you having fun would result in your people declared criminals due to assualting Imperial soldiers.

Since when did Imperial soldiers sneak up on envoys? They did not announce their presence nor did they bear any form of recognition to Valgardian soldiers (aka their uniforms). You could say that it was in my captain's best interest to make sure they weren't raiders who were trying to attack. So no, that excuse doesn't work. Just go with it for now Scand. Please.

Since when did Imperial soldiers sneak up on envoys? They did not announce their presence nor did they bear any form of recognition to Valgardian soldiers (aka their uniforms). You could say that it was in my captain's best interest to make sure they weren't raiders who were trying to attack. So no, that excuse doesn't work. Just go with it for now Scand. Please.Nope, I will not accept that your guy has the ability to knock out 30 special forces out like that. Also, since when do envoys attack the soldiers of the nation they are in? As well, why do you just attack them for talking to you in a critical manner?

Basically the land nestled in between Brown, mustard yellow, Dark Green, Red, Black, and light green. Close to the three main island chains. :/

Could I take the lands below red but above brown and left of black? Failing that, below you and next to Magdaline?

I don't mind soldier-for-soldier, your men appear to be well trained and two well trained armies fighting would be expected to fight in such a manner.

Could I take the lands below red but above brown and left of black? Failing that, below you and next to Magdaline?

I don't mind soldier-for-soldier, your men appear to be well trained and two well trained armies fighting would be expected to fight in such a manner.Alright all is good and I will change the map once your factbook is up.

Factbook done!.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12266355#post12266355.

So....
Do I make a thread for my conquests soon or what's the dig?

Only problem with your claim is that I think you are trying to get ahold of the area that I claimed.. as you notice it is right close to the island chain I was speaking of.. in the area of where I wanted.

Only problem with your claim is that I think you are trying to get ahold of the area that I claimed.. as you notice it is right close to the island chain I was speaking of.. in the area of where I wanted.

Alright, heres the thread for the corrupt Valgardian. I would prefer to keep this out of my internal thread since Im hoping it'll turn into a decent multi-page RP :)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12266578#post12266578

He adopted 'Iron Eyes' as his name after killing the chieftain of the Bloody Spears, to keep the Valgardians from knowing where he was, they most likely think he's dead if they care at all. As the Goblins dont talk and he doesnt leave survivors, nobody knows that he's commanding the raids.

I gave two locations I would be happy to be at.

To solve this I shall divide it faily and accordinly.

Here is the map, Uldarious is the strange mixed color and Carloginias you are dark blue: http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=map223kb7.png

For a nation of thirty-two million, we have a really small place, I'll just have to adjust my fact book.
I'm the teal-grey-blue colour right? On the mountain?
By the way, if I might suggest something, I'd join the borders up so that they meet each other, with all the time that has gone by I doubt anyone would allow unclaimed territory up here, unless of course it is for newer arrivals.

For a nation of thirty-two million, we have a really small place, I'll just have to adjust my fact book.
I'm the teal-grey-blue colour right? On the mountain?Sorry made a mistake when making the map. give me a second and I will fix my mistake.

Here it is: http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=map223ax3.png

Special characters cannot win the war and they cannot hold off a good part of tmy army either. As well, magic forces cannot make such a force indefinately as a being can only maintain magic for so long before they either get to tired, collaspe, or die.

Since the special characters are only supposed to be champions in battle they serve as a force to inspire your forces and keep them from fleeing, Yey, my army as a professional forces can keep up a battle for as long as it takes.

It's implied that their sheer head-and-shoulders in power above others means that their specific special abilities can give enormous advantages in battle via battlefield control, morale effects and simple area denial.

If a special character runs in, cutting swathes through your ranks in a deadly strike, followed by a charge of lower quality troops enthused by their commander, then it's unreasonable to think that your troops, with all their training, would be fighting at their full effectiveness.

If fireballs are streaming down from high-level casters and blowing holes in the formations, followed by torrents of unskilled arrow fire, it's fair to think that the troops would be at less than their full strength.

It's not that one 'hero' is worth 90 soldiers to kill. It's that they'll keep people in battle longer.

If an Imperial showed up and threw lightning everywhere, it would be unreasonable to suggest that my troops would charge him anyway, even if I knew that in the metagame just ninety of them would kill him. From the soldier's point of view, does he really want to attack the guy who could kill him with a glance? No. The ninety rule I say is more a guideline if you foolishly charge your special character into combat.

It doesn't mean that you can throw away ninety, or even a hundred, or even two hundred soldiers to defeat them. You would still lose your soldiers, hero or not. If there's this great big shining wall that consecutively set on fire, seared with acid and finally electrocuted him to death, who would want to charge anyway?

This is why a cadre of special characters could hold off an army. Not because they're powerful enough to directly kill, but because their skill instills fear in their enemies and courage in their allies.

It's implied that their sheer head-and-shoulders in power above others means that their specific special abilities can give enormous advantages in battle via battlefield control, morale effects and simple area denial.

If a special character runs in, cutting swathes through your ranks in a deadly strike, followed by a charge of lower quality troops enthused by their commander, then it's unreasonable to think that your troops, with all their training, would be fighting at their full effectiveness.

If fireballs are streaming down from high-level casters and blowing holes in the formations, followed by torrents of unskilled arrow fire, it's fair to think that the troops would be at less than their full strength.

It's not that one 'hero' is worth 90 soldiers to kill. It's that they'll keep people in battle longer.

If an Imperial showed up and threw lightning everywhere, it would be unreasonable to suggest that my troops would charge him anyway, even if I knew that in the metagame just ninety of them would kill him. From the soldier's point of view, does he really want to attack the guy who could kill him with a glance? No. The ninety rule I say is more a guideline if you foolishly charge your special character into combat.

It doesn't mean that you can throw away ninety, or even a hundred, or even two hundred soldiers to defeat them. You would still lose your soldiers, hero or not. If there's this great big shining wall that consecutively set on fire, seared with acid and finally electrocuted him to death, who would want to charge anyway?

This is why a cadre of special characters could hold off an army. Not because they're powerful enough to directly kill, but because their skill instills fear in their enemies and courage in their allies.There is only a limited amount of special characters that can be used as for example my Imperials are limited to 48 and since they do not appear on the battefield, save for any assualt directly on my captial, that number is not nesscarily great and yet you must factor a bound between the soldiers of the Empire and their Emperor. Yet, if your forces engaged a professional battle force fright factor would be irrelevant as my forces would throw themselves at you if ordered.

Ah, so they're fanatics then?

Which means that the direct kill count works out even higher in favour of the special characters. There are some things that throwing soldiers at won't solve, like my example of a prismatic wall. They'll all be killed if you keep sending them through, no matter how many you order in.

Instead, you would need to go around, attempt to disable it or even wait it out, hence its strength as battlefield control. Simply ordering soldiers to their death is going to achieve exactly that. Soldiers going to their deaths.

Discounting morale drastically weakens *any* non-direct charge tactics. If your soldiers are scared as hell by the crazy man who is cleaving a hole in their ranks, then the inferior kobolds moving in to attack become superior by virtue of the confusion wrought by the special character. Nobody in their right minds is going to stand still when there's someone who's just hacked ten of their buddies to pieces without breaking a sweat is coming their way. No, they're going to try and move away if anything, no matter how well trained they are.

Highly Trained =\= Fearless.

Highly Trained =\= Tireless.

Highly Trained =\= Suicidal.

Ah, so they're fanatics then?

Which means that the direct kill count works out even higher in favour of the special characters. There are some things that throwing soldiers at won't solve, like my example of a prismatic wall. They'll all be killed if you keep sending them through, no matter how many you order in.

Instead, you would need to go around, attempt to disable it or even wait it out, hence its strength as battlefield control. Simply ordering soldiers to their death is going to achieve exactly that. Soldiers going to their deaths.

Discounting morale drastically weakens *any* non-direct charge tactics. If your soldiers are scared as hell by the crazy man who is cleaving a hole in their ranks, then the inferior kobolds moving in to attack become superior by virtue of the confusion wrought by the special character. Nobody in their right minds is going to stand still when there's someone who's just hacked ten of their buddies to pieces without breaking a sweat is coming their way. No, they're going to try and move away if anything, no matter how well trained they are.

Highly Trained =\= Fearless.

Highly Trained =\= Tireless.

Highly Trained =\= Suicidal.Alright, you can have champions, but special characters were never meant to be the turning factors in the battle.

Also, if one of your guys starts cleaving through my forces guess a person, no matter how powerful, gets exhausted and as well it a few good axes could take down you guy.

Also, for example you are going over board with your special characters as I have said you cannot really use them as a trump card like that and even then they will die with a few well placed shots as I have said they can be quite well skilled.

Also, when fighting one person, even a special character, is not meant to turn the tide. I just have the rule of the uber powerful ones to allow for dramtic ends to an important character's life.

To a different note magic is quite limited, as the rules state, magic itself only allows anyone to use it to a rather limited degree.

Besides which, it's not like they're moving out to meet your forces. My whole example was that of a siege situation.

I think what we've got here is a misunderstanding of the use of the term 'special character'.

You see them as unusually powerful 'Elite' troops. Those who confer a small advantage.

I see them as the Living Legends, the best of the best.

An apt comparison would be between Starcraft heroes and Warcraft 3 heroes.

This would be most evident where you've claimed that the Ranger captain was a special character, despite being an unnamed nobody who was part of a faceless mass of elite troops.

In contrast, my special characters are ones who can leap into shadows and vanish, reappearing behind their enemies.

I think a number of us misunderstood you when you said 'special characters'. When you first gave the concept, I was thinking of the Beowulfs, the Gandalfs, and the Robin Hoods. The legendary grade characters. The clash of the titans.

On the other hand, you had in mind the special characters who are merely powerful. The Lieutenants, the Army Commanders and the big boss generals. The ones at the end of a long line of battles on the way to the 'boss'.

Those who eventually kill special characters should be special characters themselves, with a minimum of a name and a claim to fame, not just random soldier #51023. Even if they're otherwise unremarkable, at least give us the name and something of their history, because after striking down someone of legendary status they themselves become special and recorded in the books of history.

Form them on the spot if you must. But don't just say 'x is killed as y soldiers cut him up' or 'x is killed as y archers shoot him to death'.

I trust youve all (been made to) read the classics at some point, yes? The Illiad and all that?
Im thinking that Scandinvans intended the heros in this RP to be like the heros in those stories. Strong, MAYBE capable of turning a battle if used correctly, certainly capable of taking out quite a few normal men, but as with Achillies, just as vulnerable to a well placed arrow as you or me. None of them had any particular special power (except Achillies of course, but lets not get into that :P) except what he had naturally. Some of our guys will have magic of course though.
Basically, our special charecters have 'literary protection', that is, they are lucky because you write them lucky. And some of them have magic up the wazoo.

In regards to warriors, I'll agree with Hakurabi. Goblins primary strength and weakness is their 'bravery', or as others call it, 'need to get themselves killed', certain members of the species will happily strap a keg of gunpowder onto their backs and blow themselves up in the midst of a group of enemies.
Conversy, untrained Goblin levies (IE: %75 of the army) will also happily rush an enemy pike wall, a lot of them will be killed in the rush.
Basically if a group of over 100 Goblins gets close together without a leader to tell them otherwise, theyre going to revert to their default tactic. This would include running through the prism wall you mentioned, using each other as flooring to cross a moat, or using each other as projectiles.

I trust youve all (been made to) read the classics at some point, yes? The Illiad and all that?
Im thinking that Scandinvans intended the heros in this RP to be like the heros in those stories. Strong, MAYBE capable of turning a battle if used correctly, certainly capable of taking out quite a few normal men, but as with Achillies, just as vulnerable to a well placed arrow as you or me. None of them had any particular special power (except Achillies of course, but lets not get into that :P) except what he had naturally. Some of our guys will have magic of course though.
Basically, our special charecters have 'literary protection', that is, they are lucky because you write them lucky. And some of them have magic up the wazoo.

In regards to warriors, I'll agree with Hakurabi. Goblins primary strength and weakness is their 'bravery', or as others call it, 'need to get themselves killed', certain members of the species will happily strap a keg of gunpowder onto their backs and blow themselves up in the midst of a group of enemies.
Conversy, untrained Goblin levies (IE: %75 of the army) will also happily rush an enemy pike wall, a lot of them will be killed in the rush.
Basically if a group of over 100 Goblins gets close together without a leader to tell them otherwise, theyre going to revert to their default tactic. This would include running through the prism wall you mentioned, using each other as flooring to cross a moat, or using each other as projectiles.*Gives a cookie for knowing what the hell I am talking and shivers of thinking of reference to Zoidberg's species.*

Thank you hit it right on the nail as I was trying to do.

Nope, I will not accept that your guy has the ability to knock out 30 special forces out like that. Also, since when do envoys attack the soldiers of the nation they are in? As well, why do you just attack them for talking to you in a critical manner?

You'll notice that I mention that they have not yet reached the border. They still in Kobold territory. And why can't he? He's the 2nd strongest in the 11th Squad, making him nearly as powerful as Saito (not really, but close enough) that he could probably handle twice that number.

As for the critical manner...Matamoto was suppose to scout the area and bring back news. Since he can't bring back all 30, he just incapacitated them since he didn't know who they were...just go with it Scand, tis dark humor, but we laugh all the same.

*Gives a cookie for knowing what the hell I am talking and shivers of thinking of reference to Zoidberg's species.*

Thank you hit it right on the nail as I was trying to do.

I'll settle for a response to a bunch of your citizens being impaled on a major highway between our states after having their guts melted :P

*Gives a cookie for knowing what the hell I am talking and shivers of thinking of reference to Zoidberg's species.*

Thank you hit it right on the nail as I was trying to do.

I'll settle for a response to a bunch of your citizens being impaled on a major highway between our states after having their guts melted :P

You'll notice that I mention that they have not yet reached the border. They still in Kobold territory. And why can't he? He's the 2nd strongest in the 11th Squad, making him nearly as powerful as Saito (not really, but close enough) that he could probably handle twice that number.

As for the critical manner...Matamoto was suppose to scout the area and bring back news. Since he can't bring back all 30, he just incapacitated them since he didn't know who they were...just go with it Scand, tis dark humor, but we laugh all the same.What is this humor you speak of?;)

Yet, in all reality just change so he takes my commander, while conscious, to your commander.

I'll settle for a response to a bunch of your citizens being impaled on a major highway between our states after having their guts melted :PIt would be cooler if they were crucfied and then set on fire on the top of a tall hill near the border.:cool:

35mill population max, correct?

35mill population max, correct?That is about right.

It would be cooler if they were crucfied and then set on fire on the top of a tall hill near the border.:cool:

I'll do that next. The merchants pretty much choose the location, you know? :P
Tell you what, Ill boil their limbs, crucify them, impale them, prod them with white hot branding irons, insert some sort of burrowing insect into their abdomen, throw acid on them, then set them on fire.
All on top of a tall tower clearly visible from your capitol.

Hows that? :P

I'll do that next. The merchants pretty much choose the location, you know? :P
Tell you what, Ill boil their limbs, crucify them, impale them, prod them with white hot branding irons, insert some sort of burrowing insect into their abdomen, throw acid on them, then set them on fire.
All on top of a tall tower clearly visible from your capitol.

Hows that? :PNear a major city perhaps, but do not do it near the capital as the army literally is like massive shield around it and they will find you before you even set up a fire.

Ummm...Update the main page?

Blah. This Goblin thing isnt working out. Im thinking of switching to a role I can be a bit more active in general politics in. Maybe a Tolaria-like setting...that might be interesting indeed.

But...we need Gobbos!
Who else will run around and cut peoples skin off? Kobold don't have the guts, that only leaves trolls and they're isolationists!

Eh, I'll keep RPing the crazy d00d if Scandinvans will let me. That way Goblins will keep on existing :P

Eh, I'll keep RPing the crazy d00d if Scandinvans will let me. That way Goblins will keep on existing :PCool, goblin wars coming up wiht someone.:cool:

Cool. I'll work on my new factbook and revise my claim to that little island in the southern bay, its a just barely-visible dot.

How could you possible keep any influence with such a small amount of land?

Well, Tolaria is a magical college, sort of, remember? Not much land or many people, but almost all of them would be magic users of one sort or another, or artificers of some kind.
I imagine most of their power will be economic in nature.

I can see that working, you'd be like Thrash, he's only got three thousand warriors but they're all above-par.
You'd have small amounts of soldiers but they'd all be magic users.

Yeah, I would say there would be maybe 5-6,000 students, 300-400 professors and maybe a dozen or so really powerful mages.
The students wouldnt be much help in combat (no more so than, say, your average peasant levy, fireball-hurling aside), but would be the source of the islands economy. The professors would be actual mages, who could do serious magic and damage if they had to, and the more powerful mages would be the sort who could go sylex on people and obliterate entire areas (and themselves, of course.)
There would be non-mages to, of course. Maybe 1,000 or so various servants, employees, merchants, whatever.

And, of course, they would all be different nationalities, which would keep Tolaria strictly neutral unless it was attacked.

Alright, now that I've had time to think about it, I think special characters are too vague. There's been a lot of disagreement between Scandinavians and I about my special characters, simply because the numbers are too vague.

I propose some sort of scale for these, so different grades are accounted for.

1. Captain
This category would encompass those who are in positions of minor leadership and are otherwise unimportant. The characters of this group represent the traditional high-fantasy minor leaders, where captains are stronger than the soldiers they lead. Rarely, if ever, will a Captain advance to one of the other character types. One thing to keep in mind is that being a minor officer does not automatically include him in the Captain group, and vice versa. Joe the Captain could be in any of the four categories, though Legendary status is extraordinarily rare among those not directly in power. Captains must have at least a name.

2. Unremarkable
These are normal people, soldiers and officials. They are otherwise unremarkable and while not personally powerful, serve as major storytelling devices. Unremarkables are also Remarkably Hard to Kill, and can generally deal with any given situation in their own way. An Unremarkable pushed into dire situations can easily become a Heroic, but the opposite movement is not normally possible. Unremarkables never drop to Captain status, as their state of character development precludes them from generic 'named' status.

3. Heroic
These are by far the most active characters in the hierachy, and the most fluid group. These are Named and Developed, and are exceptional in their ability. They generally have entirely different ability sets from their peers and are of such exceptional skill that it is rare for one to fall. It is to these individuals that the 90:1 rule applies, though they will not generally attempt to face such large numbers.

4. Legendary
The Legendary character is renown through all the lands, their profile incredible and their reputation colossal. A Legendary is generally considered to be one of the absolute best in the land, and could sweep down whole armies with their might. However, for various reasons, these Legendary characters rarely leave their home base, and are fully aware that their deaths could destroy their causes entirely. A Legendary is effectively home-bound, but practically immortal, retreating whenever they might be killed. These characters fall under the definition of 'Last Stand' characters, and their full might is only displayed when the fall of their bastions are imminent. Their deaths are effected in blazes of great glory, Legend against Legend fighting where all can see, and a victory on one side often determines the battle.

To give examples of each group...
Captain: Londaz the Kobold Sorceror
Unremarkable: Princess Sophia
Heroic: Totomi Saito
Legendary: The Emperor

Sounds fair to me.
Anyone else?

EDIT: Oh yeah, I have an idea for combat and other conflicts.
Aside from the major combatants there should be an 'overseer' who can basically call a foul if one of the party's appears to be Godmodding too much, hypothetical; eg.
"My one-thousand knights smash through your ten thousand spearmen, ten die."

Whilst the situation of knights breaking the spear men is not impossible, losses would have to be higher, and for instance here the player is also scripting the fight as who is to say that the spearmen will break? That is for the other player to decide.

Also we'll have to take other examples into account, for example.

"My two-hundred goblins are hit by your one thousand knights charge, they hold fast to their positions and fifty die."

This is not so bad, except chances are that goblins, being sub-par infantry would likely die swiftly to such a large number of enemies that are of a higher quality.
Bear in mind we are trying to be realistic, chances are that Goblins would break if they saw this many knights charging them because they aren't usually a highly disciplined or professional army. This might be different if they were particularly fanatical or fighting desperately to defend a home village, but I'm just trying to give an example.

For instance the above scenario could have several other factors, maybe if they were humans they wouldn't break due to discipline, maybe they still would, which is actually more likely. But if they are humans and are well-trained and well-disciplined maybe they won't, but they'd still probably die by the shear shock of the charge and are not likely to take down many with them.

Basically the 'overseer' who would be a neutral third party, probably a different nation for every war, would just give a warning like "Those goblins aren't taking enough losses." or "You're scripting the battle, post only your losses and your actions."

These are, of course examples and may be altered from battle to battle depending on situation.

You'll notice I haven't put any really nooby examples here, that is because I believe we're all past that sort of thing.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Hak check the diplo thread, you could probably send a Kobold emissary over quite quickly.

Hey other people, feel free to join up, not all the places are taken yet!.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12272975#post12272975

Tolarian factbook thread, enjoy.
Not as long as the Goblin one, but I think this gives a bit more room for charecter development :)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12273099#post12273099
Also, heres the academy recruiting thread :)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12272975#post12272975

Tolarian factbook thread, enjoy.
Not as long as the Goblin one, but I think this gives a bit more room for charecter development :)Alright so you are the small island in the bay?

Academy pic of Tirion in Valinor.

Different times from Psijic Order of Elder Scrolls.

Looks alright.

Sadly pictures of the Tolarian Academy from MTG are somewhat lacking, except in card form. I thought it would be rather silly if people thought that they could tap my academy for mana ;)
Wanna send some young Imperials to get a proper edjumacation?

Sadly pictures of the Tolarian Academy from MTG are somewhat lacking, except in card form. I thought it would be rather silly if people thought that they could tap my academy for mana ;)
Wanna send some young Imperials to get a proper edjumacation?Nope.;)

But we can teach them important skills. Like how to swear in twelve languages

I'll send some people if you teach them twenty-six "yo momma" insults in seven languages!

They'll learn what they want to learn :P
Language is an important skill, yes, but usually more focus is put on practical applications, like turning groups of people into chickens and then setting them on fire, thus eleminating the enemy and providing a healthy snack for your own men :)

Isn't there something morally wrong with that application of magic?
...
...
I can't think of it.

Bastards deserve to get turned into chickens for being stupid enough to go up against wizards in the first place ;)

TFC: Tolarian Fried Chicken!

It's finger licking good!

Just don't ask where we get the chicken.

At least they can say honestly that it has no artificial additives or colours...heh.

Well, that depends on how you define artificial...it WAS transmuted from human flesh :P

They'll learn what they want to learn :P
Language is an important skill, yes, but usually more focus is put on practical applications, like turning groups of people into chickens and then setting them on fire, thus eleminating the enemy and providing a healthy snack for your own men :)Limit on magic so as to prevent transformation of entire groups of people as to do that would be a god mod.

That was intended as a joke.
Only the most powerful mages would be able to do something like that, and they have more effecient methods of killing people on a large scale. Why turn them into chickens when you could just, say, electrocute them.
Or drop a dragon on their heads :P

That was intended as a joke.
Only the most powerful mages would be able to do something like that, and they have more effecient methods of killing people on a large scale. Why turn them into chickens when you could just, say, electrocute them.
Or drop a dragon on their heads :PAlright, think of magic as an energy, in order to use it you have to supply an equal amount of power, life force, in order to alter something through magical means, as fire for example can be created by friction in the air it requires little energy, yet to transform others into entirely new creatures would literaly need for you to kill your own character so as to extend the energy needed to do so as you literally have to change DNA.

Yet, for transformation of regular materials it is relatively easy as you only need to supply the energy to start the chemical and environmental reactions needed for the transformation.

Of course. And a fireball is just air thats moving quickly. Thus only people like the High Mages could turn a person into a chicken without some serious outside assistance or a very powerful magical artifact.
It would be far more effecient to simply immolate somebody or simply turn them into ash.

Of course. And a fireball is just air thats moving quickly. Thus only people like the High Mages could turn a person into a chicken without some serious outside assistance or a very powerful magical artifact.
It would be far more effecient to simply immolate somebody or simply turn them into ash.Yeap, you got it also now you cannot turn entire units into chickens or the Gaint Killer Monkeys of the the Acoplayse shall come.

Yeap, you got it also now you cannot turn entire units into chickens or the Gaint Killer Monkeys of the the Acoplayse shall come.

I didnt plan to. Giant Killer Monkeys are notoriously difficult to control.

Before I ask to join, I would like to ask if I can choose a certain type of race:
Selenites, or for you huamns....moon people. Now I would have the same amount of technology as you, and would descend to earth on simple airships(I'm sure in a world where magic is possible this is possible.) You could reach me as soon as one of my ships "crash" onto earth, thus dispersing the technology. I just think it could be an interesting thing for the rp. To help you decide, some notes on my race:

The Selenites
"For a moment my eyes sought him in the wrong place, and then I perceived him standing facing us both in the full light. Only the human features I had attributed to him were not there at all!

Of course I ought to have expected that, only I didn't. It came to me as an absolute, for a moment an overwhelming shock. It seemed as though it wasn't a face, as though it must needs be a mask, a horror, a deformity, that would presently be disavowed or explained. There was no nose, and the thing had dull bulging eyes at the side - in the silhouette I had supposed they were ears. There were no ears. [...] I have tried to draw one of these heads, but I cannot. There was a mouth, downwardly curved, like a human mouth in a face that stares ferociously. [...] The neck on which the head was poised was jointed in three places, almost like the short joints in the leg of a crab. The joints of the limbs I could not see, because of the puttee-like straps in which they were swathed, and which formed the only clothing the being wore."

In general form the Selenite physiology bears a superficial resemblance to that of humans - two arms, two legs, a head upon which are two eyes, a mouth. However, this is where the similarity ends. In truth the Selenites are closer to insects than to man. Their bodies are generally covered in a chitinous carapace that supports and protects the internal organs. Their hands resemble the end of an elephant's trunk, with two flexible, boneless "digits" used for grasping and manipulating objects.

The Eyes
"This led to a comparison of the lunar and terrestrial eyes. The former is not only excessively sensitive to such light as men can see, but it can also see heat, and every difference in temperature within the moon renders objects visible to it."

The Selenite eyes might be compared to those of terrestrial insects. Rather than the single lens of the larger tellurian animals, the Selenite eye is composed of a great many tiny lenses compounded to allow the Selenite to see quite acutely. It can also perceive light quite far into the infra-red spectrum, allowing it to "see" heat differentials in its surroundings, thus what might be to a human pitch black is clear as day to a Selenite, provided that there is a variation in temperature.

The Carapace
"...Ever and again one of their queer heads came down close to my face, or a soft tentacle-hand touched my head or neck. I don't remember that I was afraid then or repelled by their proximity. I think that our incurable anthropomorphism made us imagine there were human heads inside their masks. The skin [...] was hard and shiny, quite in the beetle-wing fashion, not soft, or moist, or hairy, as a vertebrated animal's would be. Along the crest of the head was a low ridge of whitish spines running from back to front, and a much larger ridge curved on either side over the eyes."

The Selenites differ from the larger animals of Earth in that they have no internal skeleton, but rather have a chitinous carapace protecting and supporting their internal organs. This exoskeleton bears a resemblance to the shell of Earthly insects, and it composed of a similar substance. It has been posited that the greater gravity of Earth has prevented the insectoid form from becoming larger than six inches or so, the size of the largest insects in ancient prehistory. On the Moon, however, there were no such restrictions. One advantage conferred by the Selenites' chitinous armour is that it is, in most cases, flexible and capable of being altered and sculpted into the desired shape. It is this fact more than any other that has led to the vast array of shapes and sizes exhibited in the Selenite population.

Speech
"They conversed with one another in their reedy tones, that seemed to me impossible to imitate or define. [...] They faced one another, their queer heads moved, the twittering voices came quick and liquid."

Selenites communicate using a piping, twittering vocalisation similar to that of terrestrial birds. It is not possible for humans to ecaxtly replicate their speech due to the constraints of the human vocal apparatus. It is possible to approcimate it, albeit at a much lower pitch. Much of the information is carried in the rhythm and relative tone of the speech. Consonants are few, and generally used to break up words and separate syllables. Ir is generally easier for Selenites to learn human speech than it is for humans to learn to speak Lunar, but this may be due to the application of some of the Selenites' finest minds to the study of terrestrial language. That being said, the only resource that the Selenites have on Earthly matters is Mr. Cavor, whose English is idiosyncratic at best, as demonstrated by the propensity among English-speaking Selenites to pepper their speech with little phrases that they have picked up from Cavor - "If I may say", and "If you understand" being some of the more common of these.

The study of Selenite language has been aided by the fact that throughout the moon a common language is used. That said, a new system of notation has had to be developed to compensate for the imprecise phonetics of human writing, and the mere twenty-six letters of the Latin alphabet do not provide a sufficient range of articulation to capture the true nature of Selenite speech. The wide vocal range of most Selenites also means that they make excellent mimics, and are capable of reproducing recognisable imitations of voices, even of humans.

It should be noted here that the Selenites have no written language of their own. The ability of the Sekenite race to store data within the vast brains of the Erudite caste has negated the difficulties that faced humanity in passing on knowledge.

Variations on a Theme: The Different Types of Selenite
Selenite society is divided into two principle castes, which are in turn subdivided into a wide variety of groups each specialised for their determined place in society. The ruling caste is composed of the greatest intellects of the Moon - beings whose entire existence is geared towards intellectual pursuits. The other caste is by far the more numerous, and consists of the hundreds of types of workers required by Selenite society.

The Administrators
"There are administrators, of whom Phi-oo is one, Selenites of considerable initiative and versatility, responsible each for a certain cubic content of the moon's bulk...

"I see them going hither and thither with a retinue of bearers, attendants, shouters, parachute-carriers, and so forth - queer groups to see."

"...about 5 ft. high [with] small slender legs about 18 in. long, and slight feet of the common lunar pattern. On these balanced a little body, throbbing with the pulsations of his heart. He had long, soft, many-jointed arms ending in a tentacled grip, and his neck was many-jointed in the usual way, but exceptionally short and thick. His head [...] "is of the common lunar type, but strangely modified. The mouth has the usual expressionless gape, but it is unusually small and pointing downward, and the mask is reduced to the size of a large flat nose-flap. On either side are the little eyes.

"The rest of the head is distended into a huge globe and the chitinous leathery cuticle of the mooncalf herds thins out to a mere membrane, through which the pulsating brain movements are distinctly visible. He in is a creature, indeed, with a tremendously hypertrophied brain, and with the rest of his organism both relatively and absolutely dwarfed."

The Erudite
"The erudite for the most part are rapt in an impervious and apoplectic complacency, from which only a denial of their erudition can rouse them. Usually they are led about by little watchers and attendants, and often there are small and active-looking creatures, small females usually, that I am inclined to think are a sort of wife to them; but some of the profounder scholars are altogether too great for locomotion, and are carried from place to place in a sort of sedan tub, wabbling jellies of knowledge that enlist my respectful astonishment."

The Specialists
"If, for example, a Selenite is destined to be a mathematician, his teachers and trainers set out at once to that end. They check any incipient disposition to other pursuits, they encourage his mathematical bias with a perfect psychological skill. His brain grows, or at least the mathematical faculties of his brain grow, and the rest of him only so much as is necessary to sustain this essential part of him. At last, save for rest and food, his one delight lies in the exercise and display of his facility, his one interest in its application, his sole society with other specialists in his own line."

The Enforcers
"...To rule over these things and order any erring tendency there might be in some aberrant natures are the most muscular beings I have seen in the moon, a sort of lunar police, who must have been trained from their earliest years to give a perfect respect and obedience to the swollen heads."

For the most part Selenites are physically frail, lightly built and with a carapace that is quite thin and serves little more function than to contain the internal organs. However, in some specialised specimens that carapace has, through injections of nutrients, irritants and the like, been thickened and hardened into serviceable armour, and the muscular structure enhanced through regular exercise and medical treatment. Such armoured and muscled Selenites serve to police the tunnels and galleries of the Moon, dealing with those few Selenites with disruptive tendencies. Such specimens could probably match or even outclass the average human for size and strength, and also have the added advantage of an integral suit of plate armour, so only strong crushing blows or bullets can really harm them, as blades tend to glance off.

The Archers
"...struggling in the grating between those defensive spears appeared the head and shoulders of a singularly lean and angular Selenite, bearing some complicated apparatus. [...] He was aiming in the queerest way with the thing against his stomach. "Chuzz!" The thing wasn't a gun; it went off like cross-bow more, and dropped me in the middle of a leap.

"I didn't fall down, I simply came down a little shorter than I should have done if I hadn't been hit, and from the feel of my shoulder the thing might have tapped me and glanced off. Then my left hand hit against the shaft, and I perceived there was a sort of spear sticking half through my shoulder."

While there were no Selenites specifically assigned to the task of war or fighting prior to the arrival of humans on the Moon, there were a number of classes of Selenite who fulfilled similar roles, and possessed appropriate abilities. One such class was that of the Archers, originally a caste of hunters of the animals that dwell in the less densely populated lunar tunnels. Their angular frames and wide-set eyes are adapted to the pursuit of the swift-footed creatures that they hunt. Their large, flat feet and sturdy legs make them into an extremely stable firing platform.

The Matrons
"My alternative route takes me round by a huge, shadowy cavern, very crowded and clamorous, and here it is I see peering out of the hexagonal openings of a sort of honeycomb wall, or parading a large open space behind, selecting the toys and amulets made to please them by the dainty-tentacled jewellers who work in kennels below, the mothers of the moon world - the queen bees, as it were, of the hive. They are noble-looking beings, fantastically and sometimes quite beautifully adorned, with a proud carriage, and, save for their mouths, almost microscopic heads.

"Of the condition of the moon sexes, marrying and giving in marriage, and of birth and so forth among the Selenites, I have as yet been able to learn very little. [...] I am of opinion that, as with the ants and bees, there is a large majority of the members in this community of the neuter sex. Of course on earth in our cities there are now many who never live that life of parentage which is the natural life of man. Here, as with the ants, this thing has become a normal condition of the race, and the whole of such eplacement as is necessary falls upon this special and by no means numerous class of matrons, the mothers of the moon-world, large and stately beings beautifully fitted to bear the larval Selenite [...] they are absolutely incapable of cherishing the young they bring into the moon; periods of foolish indulgence alternate with moods of aggressive violence, and as soon as possible the little creatures, who are quite soft and flabby and pale coloured, are transferred to the charge of celibate females, women 'workers' as it were, who in some cases possess brains of almost masculine dimensions."

The Fishers
"In one great place [...] a number of boats were fishing. We went alongside one of these and watched the long-armed Selenites winding in a net. They were little, hunchbacked insects, with very strong arms, short, bandy legs, and crinkled face-masks."

The Mooncalf Butchers
"They were short, thick, little beggars, with long arms, strikingly different from the ones we had seen before. [...] Their sturdy little forms - ever so much shorter and thicker than the mooncalf herds - were scattered up the slope in a way that was eloquent of indecision."

The Mooncalf Tenders
"...He seemed a trivial being, a mere ant, scarcely five feet high. He was wearing garments of some leathery substance, so that no portion of his actual body appeared, but of this, of course, we were entirely ignorant. He presented himself, therefore, as a compact, bristling creature, having much of the quality of a complicated insect, with whip-like tentacles and a clanging arm projecting from his shining cylindrical body case. The form of his head was hidden by his enormous many-spiked helmet - we discovered afterwards that he used the spikes for prodding refractory mooncalves - and a pair of goggles of darkened glass, set very much at the side, gave a bird-like quality to the metallic apparatus that covered his face. His arms did not project beyond his body case, and he carried himself upon short legs that, wrapped though they were in warm coverings, seemed to our terrestrial eyes inordinately flimsy. They had very short thighs, very long shanks, and little feet."

The Mooncalf Tenders are the most common variety of Selenite to be found on the Moon's surface, their task being to drive the mooncalves out to pasture each lunar day. They generally wear protective clothing consisting of an insulated suit, helmet, darkened goggles and puttees around the joints. This gear protects them from both the freezing cold of the lunar dawn and evening, and the glaring radiation of the Sun at the height of the day. Their forms are ideally suited to their tasks, their legs adapted to scrambling over the rough terrain of the lunar surface, their eyes, although still sensitive by human standards, are inured to the harsh glare of the Sun, and his body resistant to the extremes of temperature and relatively attenuated air.

(Mooncalf's are our source of food.)

The moon could be different as well:
The Mooncalves
"First of all impressions was its enormous size; the girth of its body was some fourscore feet, its length perhaps two hundred. Its sides rose and fell with its laboured breathing. I perceived that its gigantic, flabby body lay along the ground, and that its skin was of a corrugated white, dappling into blackness along the backbone. But of its feet we saw nothing. I think also that we saw then the profile at least of the almost brainless head, with its fat-encumbered neck, its slobbering omnivorous mouth, its little nostrils, and tight shut eyes. (For the mooncalf invariably shuts its eyes in the presence of the sun.) We had a glimpse of a vast red pit as it opened its mouth to bleat and bellow again; we had a breath from the pit, and then the monster heeled over like a ship, dragged forward along the ground, creasing all its leathery skin, rolled again, and so wallowed past us, smashing a path amidst the scrub, and was speedily hidden from our eyes by the dense interlacings beyond."

Among the various foods which go to feed the swarming Lunar population the Mooncalf is very prominent. These gargantuan cattle, the size of a battleship, reside in vast caves beneath the surface during the long lunar night, and are driven up steep ramps to the surface by the Mooncalf Tenders to graze during the day. They gorge themselves upon the lush, fast-growing vegetation throughout the fortnight-long day until dusk falls across the Moon, when they return once more into the sublunar depths. It has been theorised that they were bred by the Selenites from some large burrowing creature, like an enormous worm, until now, immeasurable ages after their domestication, they are the perfect meat source, huge, docile, a single specimen capable of feeding a great many hungry Selenites. Their meat has been described as "loose in texture, and whitish brown in colour - rather like lumps of some cold souffle, and it smelt faintly like mushrooms. [...] It had the same laxness in texture that all organic structures seem to have upon the moon; it tasted rather like a gauffre or a damp meringue".

Lunar Vegetation
"And all this time the lunar plants were growing around us, higher and denser and more entangled, every moment thicker and taller, spiked plants, green cactus masses, fungi, fleshy and lichenous things, strangest radiate and sinuous shapes."

"...Figure it to yourself! About us the dream-like jungle, with the silent bayonet leaves darting overhead, and the silent, vivid, sun-splashed lichens under our hands and knees, waving with the vigour of their growth as a carpet waves when the wind gets beneath it. Ever and again one of the bladder fungi, bulging and distending under the sun, loomed upon us. Ever and again some novel shape in vivid colour obtruded. The very cells that built up these plants were as large as my thumb, like beads of coloured glass."

The Denizens of the Lunar Sea
"The caverns and passages are naturally very tortuous. A large proportion of these ways are known only to expert pilots among the fishermen, and not infrequently Selenites are lost for ever in their labyrinths. In their remoter recesses, I am told, strange creatures lurk, some of them terrible and dangerous creatures that all the science of the moon has been unable to exterminate. There is particularly the Rapha, an inextricable mass of clutching tentacles that one hacks to pieces only to multiply; and the Tzee, a darting creature that is never seen, so subtly and suddenly does it slay..."

"In one great place heavy with glistening stalactites a number of boats were fishing. [...] Among their catch was a many-tentaculate, evil-eyed black thing, ferociously active, whose appearance they greeted with shrieks and twitters, and which with quick, nervous movements they hacked to pieces by means of little hatchets. All its dissevered limbs continued to lash and writhe in a vicious manner."

So, can I do it?

I would like to join, but I think I need my race checked first. I would like to rp Selenites, or moon people. We would go to earth on simple airships(since there is magic I figure this is possible). I would have simple technology, and the moon would be able to support life. After one of my airships "crashes" another pt race could discover it and use it build thier own. I this ok?

I'd like to have rules for the amount of "gifted" men you could have as well, people who can see through magical disguises etc.

I think some sort of magical gateway would be better than airships.

I would like to join, but I think I need my race checked first. I would like to rp Selenites, or moon people. We would go to earth on simple airships(since there is magic I figure this is possible). I would have simple technology, and the moon would be able to support life. After one of my airships "crashes" another pt race could discover it and use it build thier own. I this ok?Sorry, cannot have a lunar surface race due to realistic reasosn, though feel free to have a massive underground civilization that has an entire ecosystem due to a large number of reasons.

Wait!
Could he have a race from another, smaller world, that is linked to this one by a magical gateway? He'd have to have the same sized population as us and supply his own map, but it'd give him a good reason to go to war, he needs new land to expand his population.
Hell, we could have a few of such gateways, it would mean he could be an 'X' factor.

Just for reference, the relative ability levels of the Kobold Alliance. Everything should work out to average added up, and factors not considered are assumed to be average.

Rankings go as follows:
Pathetic-Poor-Below Average-Average-Above Average-Exceptional-Legendary

Scalings go as follows:
0.5-0.75-0.875-1-1.25-1.5-2.0

Engineering: Legendary
Kobold engineering is widely known to be the best in the region, and its trapmakers are renown for their prodigious skill and meticulous dedication to their works. In this regard their pent up racial paranoia works well in their advantage, a long cultural norm of extensively trapping their lairs which has carried into the Alliance. One of the most respectable positions a kobold can hold is that of a trapmaster, and with good reason. A Kobold work team works at double the speed of ordinary engineers and can build devices of twice the complexity of normal contraptions.

Stoneworking: Exceptional
Both Dwarves and Kobolds are known for their cunning with stone, and it goes hand in hand with their status as mountain races. Both races have a long history of mining and both have cultural and technological developments which contribute to this cause. When the races are brought together peacefully their productivity is far beyond the capacity of many other races. Despite the kobolds' lack of dedication to the art of working metal, the relatively fewer Dwarven smiths are able to take up the slack, resulting in a net zero advantage. An Alliance work team digs at 1.5x the speed of a normal work team and fight at 1.5x strength underground. This bonus stacks with other traits.

Woodcraft: Below Average
As mountainous races, not many kobolds or dwarves leave their mines and homes for wooded areas, and as a result their abilities with more lush climates are somewhat lacking. Nevertheless, they are fully capable of manipulating wood to a passable extent, given its use in many mining applications. An Alliance work team can manipulate wood at 87.5% of normal speed, and fight only at 87.5% when in a woods-woods battle.

Soldiers: Poor
Kobolds, while willing to sacrifice themselves for the cause if necessary, are not naturally inclined as fighters. Instead, their strength lies in their natural dexterity and cunning. The dwarven clans which have joined the Alliance contribute stout and powerful warriors to combat, but they are at best auxilaries due to being vastly outnumbered. An Alliance melee force fights at three quarters normal strength and conscripts fight at five-eighths normal strength.

Archers: Average
The natural dexterity of Kobolds works in their advantage in ranged warfare, and easily makes them the equivalent of regular professional soldiers when armed with bows and crossbows. However, their lack of a true military tradition restricts their potential. Given proper training they could become strong archers, though most are scouts, who patrol the lands of the Alliance in search of their enemies. Alliance archers have no bonus or penalty in combat.

Cavalry: Pathetic
As a coalition of mountainous races, there has never been a cavalry tradition in the Alliance, and cultural norms are against it. While there are plenty who know how to ride horses and other assorted mounts, only a very few have the ability to ride mounted into combat and less still can both ride into combat and fight at the same time. Most 'cavalry' are rangers mounted on dire weasels, who do not fight a moving battle and are better considered archers. All Alliance cavalry units suffer a 50% penalty to combat strength.

Magic: Above Average
The Chamber is a highly influential cabal of kobold sorcerors and are a constant source of magical items to equip their elite agents. Their mages rarely emerge from their chambers, much more interested in developing their abilities and playing politics amongst themselves. However, when they do emerge they are a force to be reckoned with, projecting fireballs and using their vast reserves of banked up arcane energy to keep up a sustained barrage. A Chamber barrage is one quarter more powerful than an average mage barrage, and can be sustained for 25% longer.

Just for reference, the relative ability levels of the Kobold Alliance. Everything should work out to average added up, and factors not considered are assumed to be average.

Rankings go as follows:
Pathetic-Poor-Below Average-Average-Above Average-Exceptional-Legendary

Scalings go as follows:
0.5-0.75-0.875-1-1.25-1.5-2.0

Engineering: Legendary
Kobold engineering is widely known to be the best in the region, and its trapmakers are renown for their prodigious skill and meticulous dedication to their works. In this regard their pent up racial paranoia works well in their advantage, a long cultural norm of extensively trapping their lairs which has carried into the Alliance. One of the most respectable positions a kobold can hold is that of a trapmaster, and with good reason. A Kobold work team works at double the speed of ordinary engineers and can build devices of twice the complexity of normal contraptions.

Stoneworking: Exceptional
Both Dwarves and Kobolds are known for their cunning with stone, and it goes hand in hand with their status as mountain races. Both races have a long history of mining and both have cultural and technological developments which contribute to this cause. When the races are brought together peacefully their productivity is far beyond the capacity of many other races. Despite the kobolds' lack of dedication to the art of working metal, the relatively fewer Dwarven smiths are able to take up the slack, resulting in a net zero advantage. An Alliance work team digs at 1.5x the speed of a normal work team and fight at 1.5x strength underground. This bonus stacks with other traits.

Woodcraft: Below Average
As mountainous races, not many kobolds or dwarves leave their mines and homes for wooded areas, and as a result their abilities with more lush climates are somewhat lacking. Nevertheless, they are fully capable of manipulating wood to a passable extent, given its use in many mining applications. An Alliance work team can manipulate wood at 87.5% of normal speed, and fight only at 87.5% when in a woods-woods battle.

Soldiers: Poor
Kobolds, while willing to sacrifice themselves for the cause if necessary, are not naturally inclined as fighters. Instead, their strength lies in their natural dexterity and cunning. The dwarven clans which have joined the Alliance contribute stout and powerful warriors to combat, but they are at best auxilaries due to being vastly outnumbered. An Alliance melee force fights at three quarters normal strength and conscripts fight at five-eighths normal strength.

Archers: Average
The natural dexterity of Kobolds works in their advantage in ranged warfare, and easily makes them the equivalent of regular professional soldiers when armed with bows and crossbows. However, their lack of a true military tradition restricts their potential. Given proper training they could become strong archers, though most are scouts, who patrol the lands of the Alliance in search of their enemies. Alliance archers have no bonus or penalty in combat.

Cavalry: Pathetic
As a coalition of mountainous races, there has never been a cavalry tradition in the Alliance, and cultural norms are against it. While there are plenty who know how to ride horses and other assorted mounts, only a very few have the ability to ride mounted into combat and less still can both ride into combat and fight at the same time. Most 'cavalry' are rangers mounted on dire weasels, who do not fight a moving battle and are better considered archers. All Alliance cavalry units suffer a 50% penalty to combat strength.

Magic: Above Average
The Chamber is a highly influential cabal of kobold sorcerors and are a constant source of magical items to equip their elite agents. Their mages rarely emerge from their chambers, much more interested in developing their abilities and playing politics amongst themselves. However, when they do emerge they are a force to be reckoned with, projecting fireballs and using their vast reserves of banked up arcane energy to keep up a sustained barrage. A Chamber barrage is one quarter more powerful than an average mage barrage, and can be sustained for 25% longer.Alright, you cannot mass produce traps as there is not even the level of forging tech yet as that would require mass production. Also, we do not follow any expert abilities like a lot of the old strategy as that would be unfair as for example for a fact you have to use mathmatics for building.

As well, Kobolds are expert mages?

Also, you determine a race's abilities based on their climate and enviroment, as stone working skills will dang good, but engineering not inherently so, though the dwarves rock.

Sorry for all of this I just hate intial racial building adavantage and I do not play D'D.

I didnt plan to. Giant Killer Monkeys are notoriously difficult to control.Yes, though I have one sitting with me right. "Such a sweet little thing aren't you Gaint Killer" *Crunch* "Shit you bastard you just removed my spline" *Take out cattle probe and shocks it into it starts to twitch*

Alright, you cannot mass produce traps as there is not even the level of forging tech yet as that would require mass production. Also, we do not follow any expert abilities like a lot of the old strategy as that would be unfair as for example for a fact you have to use mathmatics for building.

As well, Kobolds are expert mages?

Also, you determine a race's abilities based on their climate and enviroment, as stone working skills will dang good, but engineering not inherently so, though the dwarves rock.

Sorry for all of this I just hate intial racial building adavantage and I do not play D'D.

Actually, the 'above average' represents the fact that their mage cabal is slightly above the norm. With regards to the blanket category of 'Engineering', 2x faster than usual isn't really that hugely different. It means I can deploy twice as many simple traps in the same time as a team of the same size from an 'Average' ability group.

And kobolds are pretty much the trapmasters of DnD. A flavour explanation is I think called for.

In DnD, Dwarves, Elves and Halflings are based on their Tolkien counterparts. Thus, dwarves are stout, mighty warriors and their metalsmithing cultural abilities reflect this. In terms of technology, they are not innovators, and this role is reserved for the gnomes, who have a prankster culture.

On the other hand, Kobolds are known as small and cowardly, and their 'racial craft' is trapmaking, a skill which can easily be applied to the construction of other complex devices, which I rationalise as a logical extension of traps. The repeating crossbow could easily be an automatically reloading arrow trap made portable. For kobolds, trapmaking is an art form.

It's not really that kobolds are naturally predisposed to trapmaking any more than other races, except insofar as their dexterity allows. It's more that it's an integral part of their culture and they have refined it as an art form over countless generations. Thus, they are as a whole better at it than anyone else.

The Chamber is another matter. The discovery of sorcerous talents is a ceremonious event in Kobold society and such individuals are brought into the fold of the Chamber, instead of being simply left to develop their talents on their own. The 'above average' qualifier doesn't mean they're experts, or even remarkably talented, but more that their sorcerors have the benifit of developing their talents in a controlled environment with the advice and training of their peers and are less of an experimental process.

Hey what's the deal with the other guy who joined at the same time as me? Is he still in or what? And what about my magical gate idea for the Selenites?

I am here, just too lazy to post up a factbook.

*Takes out whip* "Get to Work"

Everyone needs to get a lot more active...we need a war.
wait...

Alright, as I say me and Hakurabi are the most active, Aqua Anu and Kurona are quite active, Kanami and Uldarious have shown more then enough interest to continue, Jade Star is more then active enough as he has rped quite well and has just lacked enough other player interest in himself, Thrashia has done more then enough to prove his own inrested in this thread, and quite a few others are not really active.

Well, I suppose we ought to get to planning a big one then.

So who is going to align themselves with who? And who will cast the first stone?

I could just rp a fallen Valgardian coming from the farthest north with an army of skeltons, following my rule only skeltons could be given motion to without killing the maker, along with an army of half-orcs and regular orcs. How does that sound?

Which reminds me, does temporary animation cost lives? It would be like temporarily investing your soul in it by entering a special trance. It would also retain the limitation of one construct/caster and trade off the 'permanent' thing by also leaving the enchanter vulnerable.

As in 'Joe the Mage appeared with the gigantic construct of iron. He began chanting and the thing moved forward, beating away soldiers like flies. Then, suddenly he stopped, and the construct fell silent once more.'


Although, wouldn't a fallen Valgardian from the north just attack Valgard and open up a weak spot for the Kobolds to attack and/or render areas impassable and thus under their control?

Yeah, you can maybe move a statue for religious reasons, but for example when you form a bond with something you have to feed it enough energy to move, life force, yet to try to get the entire thing to move as to attack somebody would drain a person, and depending on if the figure is more then a ton the person would likely die within ten seconds.

A fallen Valgardain by the way usally does not mean a person with the hate of Valgardians, but more of one of the Valgardians who abanoded the beliefs of Valgard and dared to animate the died and killing of honorable people in cold blood.

Hmmm, but these fallen Valgardians would just be a trouble for you wouldn't they?

Makes sense. It'd be a great device for a dramatic escape, like a mage moving a statue infront of a door to cover his escape for those crucial moments, or making an ordinary suit of armour appear posessed.

---

Hmm... Sounds like someone normal Valgardians would try to kill on sight, even if the fallen one won't. Sort of like a vigilante - They don't bear any ill will against those they're supposedly trying to protect, but those they are 'protecting' hate him because of the arbitary judgement and risk to those who are not actually guilty.

Ah well, time to break out the clerics to turn the undead.

Actually I had something rather different in mind.

This the premises, two large events, one deals with my nation directly, the other deals with all the lands.

First of all a tide of ocean-living men has arisen to take over the world, gee that sounded so much better in my head...

Basically they'd be a danger to anyone who has a coast of any size, it'd give everyone a chance to rp a bit of combat without other nations involved.
These sea people would be like the naga from warcraft three, no cavalry or siege and probably armed with bladed spears and other similar weapons. I doubt this would be significant threat, but maybe cause a few thousand men to be sent to the coast, a few villages burned all around, just to heighten the warlike feel.

The second event would involve my nation, this would be after diplomatic relations with the Kobolds have gotten better, but I'd send a small army to help the Kobold fight back the Valgardians, as this is a Earth, not just an rp this is just like an II event where one power retakes a former territory, in this case the Occupied territories would either be partially or completely liberated.
You could decide what to do after that, it could escalate further with massive Valgardian reinforcements being sent in double-time to retake the land once again.
This wouldn't be like a normal war but rather one that we agree on the results before hand, more of an RP plot device.
Or we could have it like a II war where the result isn't set in stone yet.

Thoughts?

Makes sense. It'd be a great device for a dramatic escape, like a mage moving a statue infront of a door to cover his escape for those crucial moments, or making an ordinary suit of armour appear posessed.

---

Hmm... Sounds like someone normal Valgardians would try to kill on sight, even if the fallen one won't. Sort of like a vigilante - They don't bear any ill will against those they're supposedly trying to protect, but those they are 'protecting' hate him because of the arbitary judgement and risk to those who are not actually guilty.

Ah well, time to break out the clerics to turn the undead.1. Yes, you got it as it would be unreasonable for massive formations of great numbers of golems to be present on a battle field.

2. The fallen Valgardians are really more of a group that is hostile to everyone and just really are more self-centered and disregard the pact between the Valgardians and the gods.

Sorry for the structure of this looking critical yet I just have a habit of answering questions in an organized way like that.

Of course these sea people my be trouble to the smaller people, but Jade can probably take care of them, Scan might need to protect some of them though.

Of course these sea people my be trouble to the smaller people, but Jade can probably take care of them, Scan might need to protect some of them though.I already do take care of some of the smaller nations.

That was what I was getting at, so what do you guys think of the ideas?

Plus, it does give us the opportunity to show off the legendary-grade characters, thanks to them being NPC adversaries.

Besides, I want to deploy a prismat, for impress reasons. It's a shame that even a newborn Prismat is already the equivalent of 14th level...

You know, I'll just scale back it's abilities into a normal dragon. I want to be able to deploy these babies in a fight, and the best way is to nerf them. Extensively. Except, maybe for a select few named heroics and maybe a legendary.

That was what I was getting at, so what do you guys think of the ideas?Alright, though since I am kinda of now connected to the main sea in my main empire so my legions should dispatch any attack relatively well.

Alright, though since I am kinda of now connected to the main sea in my main empire so my legions should dispatch any attack relatively well.

That's what sabotage is for.

Details as to what my make Emperors so strong. Well they as they formed a pact with the gods allowed for them to merge with the mark of the Emperors when the next one was crowned and join all the emperors before them there and allowed the next Emperor to use their knowledge, memories, and skills acquired in combat styles and tatics so as to create ever stronger emperors with each passing generation. Added these marks gave each Emperor great magical abillity inately.

To note though it is impossible for these to be tapped by those who are not of Imperial blood and chosen by the last Emperor. As well, any attempt to create similiar things is not possible due to the means of it being made were made only once and can never be made again. Added any attempt by let us say an extremly powerful mage trying to gain access to the seal through arcane or any other means will result in those trying to forcibly access in them being killed.

That's what sabotage is for.Still, it is pretty hard to read a language that is in High Valgardian which is not related in any other language and is only known to a few hundred peoples. So what I am saying is that it is very hard to gain secret knowledge of the Empire.

As well, feel free to do so along the border, but know as you get deeper in the Empire and also know due to the inhabitants of the inner Imperial city and those of the secret Imperial mages training grounds are nearly immpossible to nearly get into by those not welcome as they are guarded by people who will be able to sense any magical disguse and are well able to find infiltrators.;)

...Does that mean that if the emperor actually gets killed everything falls apart?

But seriously, figures that powerful were made for epic adventuring parties to kill. I look forward to the final confrontation where heroes and legends gather together in a final, epic confrontation to strike down the emperor.

Preferably in a suitable location, such as the palace rooftop in driving rain.

Alright, though since I am kinda of now connected to the main sea in my main empire so my legions should dispatch any attack relatively well.

True, but the point was to create some chaos and no matter how many men you have they can't be every ware at once, especially considering the size of your empire. A sea-borne invasion is likely to kill several people before your army even knows it is under attack.

The same deal applies to me, I have a much smaller empire and I still have hundreds of thousands of men, but if a seaside town is attacked the town guard will be able to respond, but an actual army detachment needs to be notified that it is under attack.

An attack may go unnoticed for several days if a seaside village was attacked at night leaving no survivors.
I say village because a town would be noticed and would probably have the means to hold off a attack until help arrives, or at least long enough to warn other nearby villages and towns.

Still, it is pretty hard to read a language that is in High Valgardian which is not related in any other language and is only known to a few hundred peoples. So what I am saying is that it is very hard to gain secret knowledge of the Empire.

As well, feel free to do so along the border, but know as you get deeper in the Empire and also know due to the inhabitants of the inner Imperial city and those of the secret Imperial mages training grounds are nearly immpossible to nearly get into by those not welcome as they are guarded by people who will be able to sense any magical disguse and are well able to find infiltrators.;)

No, that's why you send heroes. They are head-and-shoulders above the norm, after all. Someone who can literally conceal themselves in plain sight is not subject to magical detection. :) Especially if they show up null on magic sensors. They're not called heroes for nothing.

Besides, if I decide they're too powerful it'll just get strafed by a heroic prismat.

True, but the point was to create some chaos and no matter how many men you have they can't be every ware at once, especially considering the size of your empire. A sea-borne invasion is likely to kill several people before your army even knows it is under attack.

The same deal applies to me, I have a much smaller empire and I still have hundreds of thousands of men, but if a seaside town is attacked the town guard will be able to respond, but an actual army detachment needs to be notified that it is under attack.

An attack may go unnoticed for several days if a seaside village was attacked at night leaving no survivors.
I say village because a town would be noticed and would probably have the means to hold off a attack until help arrives, or at least long enough to warn other nearby villages and towns.

/me is glad that I don't have shorelines.

So that means my people are really in this one for opportunity fire. If the Valgardians have to dispatch most of their rangers and a sizeable portion of their army their towns become vulnerable to hit-and-run strikes with things like fireballs and burning arrows.

That, and assassinations to throw up extra chaotic goodness.

EDIT: Or is it chaotic evilness? Hmm...

...Does that mean that if the emperor actually gets killed everything falls apart?

But seriously, figures that powerful were made for epic adventuring parties to kill. I look forward to the final confrontation where heroes and legends gather together in a final, epic confrontation to strike down the emperor.

Preferably in a suitable location, such as the palace rooftop in driving rain.Well, you see in order to even get his attention you will have to fight through the Imperial Guard, the most powerful warriors in the world, defeat the Imperial family leaders, destroy countless other guards, kill many soldiers, destroy his personal guards who are the equivalent of your heroic soldiers, and then defeat signal most powerful being upon this world.

Yes, the rule about him being the strongest is unchangeable.

True, but the point was to create some chaos and no matter how many men you have they can't be every ware at once, especially considering the size of your empire. A sea-borne invasion is likely to kill several people before your army even knows it is under attack.

The same deal applies to me, I have a much smaller empire and I still have hundreds of thousands of men, but if a seaside town is attacked the town guard will be able to respond, but an actual army detachment needs to be notified that it is under attack.

An attack may go unnoticed for several days if a seaside village was attacked at night leaving no survivors.
I say village because a town would be noticed and would probably have the means to hold off a attack until help arrives, or at least long enough to warn other nearby villages and towns.The sea part of my Empire has many cities and town, but many times that number in villages so an assualt would kill quite a few. Though, attacks on any sizable population center would result in a quick response by my professional forces.

I'm not contesting that he's the strongest.

He's a freaking BBEG! He's supposed to be the strongest.

That's why I set up the situation as a gathering of all heroics and legendaries, battling their way through the palace and finally the end confrontation!

I mean, you've got all the best cards at first in that battle, so it makes sense that the final confrontation will occur when enough forces are allied against the Valgardians to trigger a palace conflict.

In fact, I'd be annoyed if you didn't have a cadre of heroic-grade guards. By the time that happens, you'll probably have around 20 epic casters staring you down, Legendary warriors unmatched in prowess, powerful mythical creatures and stealth specialists so extraordinary they are invisible to every magical protection!

Don't look at me like that... The emperor raid does mean over 50% of PT world is aligned against the Valgardians...

/me is glad that I don't have shorelines.

So that means my people are really in this one for opportunity fire. If the Valgardians have to dispatch most of their rangers and a sizeable portion of their army their towns become vulnerable to hit-and-run strikes with things like fireballs and burning arrows.

That, and assassinations to throw up extra chaotic goodness.

EDIT: Or is it chaotic evilness? Hmm...Acutally, I would not move forces from the other side of my empire. I would just bring them in from neighborring military sectors which are not anywhere near lands that can be reached quick enough by your forces before my armies find them.

That's where infiltrators come in.

When the mayor wakes up with a note reading 'You will die in ten days' on the wall, he's going to be scared, and when he does, everyone else will be too.

In other words, you have to give up defences somewhere and that's where the infiltrators will go.

Surprise strikes are perfectly possible, given that you really don't need a huge army formation to cause havoc. You could set up a bandit group and have them cause trouble in poorly defended areas.

I'm not contesting that he's the strongest.

He's a freaking BBEG! He's supposed to be the strongest.

That's why I set up the situation as a gathering of all heroics and legendaries, battling their way through the palace and finally the end confrontation!

I mean, you've got all the best cards at first in that battle, so it makes sense that the final confrontation will occur when enough forces are allied against the Valgardians to trigger a palace conflict.

In fact, I'd be annoyed if you didn't have a cadre of heroic-grade guards. By the time that happens, you'll probably have around 20 epic casters staring you down, Legendary warriors unmatched in prowess, powerful mythical creatures and stealth specialists so extraordinary they are invisible to every magical protection!

Don't look at me like that... The emperor raid does mean over 50% of PT world is aligned against the Valgardians...Do not worry I know enough about Grottos and Gremlins (someone please know what the hell I am talking about with that as it is from a game) to know that the last big guy is the uber power of all.

Alright, we kinda of have that made out.

Yet, even in the end you kill the Emperor you must know if my Empire falls there will be a power vacum which will take to long to fill. So you would get the mountains your people once lived in back, the slaves become serfs, a new Emperor is crowned and all is fine and dandy for a few years.

That's where infiltrators come in.

When the mayor wakes up with a note reading 'You will die in ten days' on the wall, he's going to be scared, and when he does, everyone else will be too.

In other words, you have to give up defences somewhere and that's where the infiltrators will go.

Surprise strikes are perfectly possible, given that you really don't need a huge army formation to cause havoc. You could set up a bandit group and have them cause trouble in poorly defended areas.Alright, you know though you are not the only one with people more then able to use terror to cause havoic in other nations.

Well, you see in order to even get his attention you will have to fight through the Imperial Guard, the most powerful warriors in the world, defeat the Imperial family leaders, destroy countless other guards, kill many soldiers, destroy his personal guards who are the equivalent of your heroic soldiers, and then defeat signal most powerful being upon this world.

Yes, the rule about him being the strongest is unchangeable.

Ummm, Scan you're being a little unfair with your emperor's strength.

In fact, what does it matter if your emperor is killed? you can just crown a new one the very next day and, from you've told me, he'll be back like a 70's villain, even stronger that is.

Also, I don't believe it is fair to say that your emperor is the strongest being in this world, no argument, under the hypothetical situation that he was to do combat with an enemy equal, I.E. the "powerful king" instead of a diplomatic figure, you can't guarantee his victory.

Alright, I'm willing to give him a "strength" advantage, but I think it highly unlikely, I think some grand troll would probably be stronger because despite what he is, he's still basically a human.

If by strength you mean best, I'm afraid I must argue.

I also argue that your "Imperial Guard" are the strongest warriors in the world. they could be in a class that is the strongest in the world, but it is not fair to have an entire class that is denied to others, lets say for example that me, or Hak, or True Race were to say "we have the rare, Uber-hyper guards and they are the strongest men in the world" it simply wouldn't be fair, or reasonable at that.

You could say, "they are the finest men in Valgard, which means they are some of the best fighting men in the world" because this means that they are not without equal.

I demand that you withdraw the statements saying that you are in position of the single most power forces on the world.

Yes - it probably would end on a high note like that.

Possibly because these people who just struck down a living god are now the most powerful, and any new emperor would be bereft of the uber power, and would likely lack the ambition to continue their conquest.

That, and their heirs wouldn't have the same power either, and it would become something of a formality.

That is, assuming every other city doesn't get burned to the ground. That would kind of put a damper on rebuilding.

Ummm, Scan you're being a little unfair with your emperor's strength.

In fact, what does it matter if your emperor is killed? you can just crown a new one the very next day and, from you've told me, he'll be back like a 70's villain, even stronger that is.

Also, I don't believe it is fair to say that your emperor is the strongest being in this world, no argument, under the hypothetical situation that he was to do combat with an enemy equal, I.E. the "powerful king" instead of a diplomatic figure, you can't guarantee his victory.

Alright, I'm willing to give him a "strength" advantage, but I think it highly unlikely, I think some grand troll would probably be stronger because despite what he is, he's still basically a human.

If by strength you mean best, I'm afraid I must argue.

I also argue that your "Imperial Guard" are the strongest warriors in the world. they could be in a class that is the strongest in the world, but it is not fair to have an entire class that is denied to others, lets say for example that me, or Hak, or True Race were to say "we have the rare, Uber-hyper guards and they are the strongest men in the world" it simply wouldn't be fair, or reasonable at that.

You could say, "they are the finest men in Valgard, which means they are some of the best fighting men in the world" because this means that they are not without equal.

I demand that you withdraw the statements saying that you are in position of the single most power forces on the world.

I'd say, if the 'recrowning' after the emperor's death holds true, this just puts the Valgardians squarely into the 'Evil Empire' pigeonhole and it means that we now have the moral responsibility to burn every town we pass, and wipe out every surviving Valgardian, to the last woman and child. Harsh, but fair.

Sort of like how paladins have the moral responsibility to eat evil babies.

Besides which, I like the idea of having every one of the best in the world opposing the emperor.

EDIT: You know, that would be rather like the end of the Tolkien Numenorians. Their leader got too ambitious for their own good and they got wiped out completely.

True, it would be poetic, but I just can't stand it.
There's no reason why is emperor could have the strength he does, so what, he gets the strength from his gods, so does the Arch Duke, so what, he gets strength from his ancestors, the Yelsa are already above-average soldiers and they only get better as they age.

This arguement could works for everyone, but I simply choose not to make my leader beyond reasonable strength, hell someone could say "My character wields excalibur, that makes him unbeatable."

I'd say, if the 'recrowning' after the emperor's death holds true, this just puts the Valgardians squarely into the 'Evil Empire' pigeonhole and it means that we now have the moral responsibility to burn every town we pass, and wipe out every surviving Valgardian, to the last woman and child. Harsh, but fair.

Sort of like how paladins have the moral responsibility to eat evil babies.

Besides which, I like the idea of having every one of the best in the world opposing the emperor.

EDIT: You know, that would be rather like the end of the Tolkien Numenorians. Their leader got too ambitious for their own good and they got wiped out completely.Well, the Valgardians acutally are not evil as they seem to be, are in fact a relatively good people who only continue the conquest as they have the memory of what caused them to come from the north and now seek to prepare the other peoples to be strong enough to survie that power as they are far sighted, no powers here just able to predict things well in the long course of things, and knew the only true way to save all the other peoples was to either unite them into one Empire or by the fear of war.

Scandinavia
Well, the Valgardians acutally are not evil as they seem to be, are in fact a relatively good people who only continue the conquest as they have the memory of what caused them to come from the north and now seek to prepare the other peoples to be strong enough to survie that power as they are far sighted, no powers here just able to predict things well in the long course of things, and knew the only true way to save all the other peoples was to either unite them into one Empire or by the fear of war.


I think you are missing my statements.

True, it would be poetic, but I just can't stand it.
There's no reason why is emperor could have the strength he does, so what, he gets the strength from his gods, so does the Arch Duke, so what, he gets strength from his ancestors, the Yelsa are already above-average soldiers and they only get better as they age.

This arguement could works for everyone, but I simply choose not to make my leader beyond reasonable strength, hell someone could say "My character wields excalibur, that makes him unbeatable."You no love poetic endings?:confused: :(

You see I just find that it would be a cool thing if my side wins or the other side wins to see an epic battle.:)

Yet, as the ability can be explained through genetic memory also if need be. Yet, since I created my own race I can change a few details if need be.

Well, the Valgardians acutally are not evil as they seem to be, are in fact a relatively good people who only continue the conquest as they have the memory of what caused them to come from the north and now seek to prepare the other peoples to be strong enough to survie that power as they are far sighted, no powers here just able to predict things well in the long course of things, and knew the only true way to save all the other peoples was to either unite them into one Empire or by the fear of war.

"That's what the Númenorians said, sir!"

I hope you understand that by setting yourself up as more powerful than everyone else you immediately become the Evil Empire, hell bent on enslaving the peoples of PT world.

Your people are so powerful, as you've described them, that alliances are of a negligible effect on your military might, you're enslaving other races, and apparently everything you have is one step above everybody else's.

Therefore, the only rational thing to do is to band together and defeat you by steel, stealth and staff.

Except this time you're so powerful that we need to burn every one of your people at the stake, instead of sparing them.

Actually, it was my intent to use my armies iron discipline and natural ability to drive him away and hold him at all the best-defensible locations until he renounced war, since he has a larger army military conquest isn't really an option.

Although I believe True Race is actually the largest empire in terms of army-size, but then again they aren't so high-quality.

"That's what the Númenorians said, sir!"

I hope you understand that by setting yourself up as more powerful than everyone else you immediately become the Evil Empire, hell bent on enslaving the peoples of PT world.

Your people are so powerful, as you've described them, that alliances are of a negligible effect on your military might, you're enslaving other races, and apparently everything you have is one step above everybody else's.

Therefore, the only rational thing to do is to band together and defeat you by steel, stealth and staff.

Except this time you're so powerful that we need to burn every one of your people at the stake, instead of sparing them.Alright, if that happens a good deal of my people would flee to the north or go into hiding as you cannot kill every signal last one of a people of millions. As well, this would allow me to go to the unknown northern lands and build an army of peoples of will march south under the banner of a survior of the either the Imperial family who was the unfavored son of the Emperor or the son of the extened family.

They willl be able to raise this army due to them having many related peoples in the north whom they kept good contact with. So by raising this army they would begin an invansion of untold size to reclaim their empire and to gain revenge.

Added to their relation with these peoples they also have the appeal of the more fertile and mild south as a pretty incentive to come with the Valgardian refugess.

Alright, you know though you are not the only one with people more then able to use terror to cause havoic in other nations.

That's the thing. You're the only one who really can't.

When you've got the best armies, and the best mages, and the best special characters who can defeat everything, there's not much left for terror tactics.

Alright, if that happens a good deal of my people would flee to the north or go into hiding as you cannot kill every signal last one of a people of millions. As well, this would allow me to go to the unknown northern lands and build an army of peoples of will march south under the banner of a survior of the either the Imperial family who was the unfavored son of the Emperor or the son of the extened family.

They willl be able to raise this army due to them having many related peoples in the north whom they kept good contact with. So by raising this army they would begin an invansion of untold size to reclaim their empire and to gain revenge.

Added to their relation with these peoples they also have the appeal of the more fertile and mild south as a pretty incentive to come with the Valgardian refugess.

Oh no. The crusade would continue until every last one of them were purged from the Earth. They are simply that great a threat that they could not be allowed to survive, because of that threat.

If they discover that any Valgardians escaped to the north, there will be bloody hell to pay. A crusade is the right term, as the possibility of another Emperor arising is too great to ignore, and the search would need to go on until every last one of the Valgardians are purged from this existence.

I'm sorry, but that's how powerful you've made them. The mere knowledge that even a single Valgardian could be anointed as the Emperor and shatter their freedom again means that not even one is allowed to survive.

It's not enough to drive them out anymore.

Actually, it was my intent to use my armies iron discipline and natural ability to drive him away and hold him at all the best-defensible locations until he renounced war, since he has a larger army military conquest isn't really an option.

Although I believe True Race is actually the largest empire in terms of army-size, but then again they aren't so high-quality.Very good thinking as in a war of attrition the bigger nation 'always' wins as was stated by the history channel in comparing Germany to the S.U.

Well yes, except the war of attrition was more pronounced on the Eastern Front.

However it can go the other way, Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan, among others, prove that small armies can win too.
Another example in battle would be Agincourt where the English beat a foe five times their number, although they did possess the advantage of terrain, leadership and favourable weather.

However, didn't your people flee from the north? Also, as you said the north is less forgiving, harsher, less fertile, this means a lower population. Which means less men.

I'd like to say Scan, I have nothing agaisnt with you, only that you claim your men and leader are the unrivalled best.

By the way, millions of people can be killed, Napoleon did it, the Roman's did it, Genghis Khan did it too.

That's the thing. You're the only one who really can't.

When you've got the best armies, and the best mages, and the best special characters who can defeat everything, there's not much left for terror tactics.



Oh no. The crusade would continue until every last one of them were purged from the Earth. They are simply that great a threat that they could not be allowed to survive, because of that threat.

If they discover that any Valgardians escaped to the north, there will be bloody hell to pay. A crusade is the right term, as the possibility of another Emperor arising is too great to ignore, and the search would need to go on until every last one of the Valgardians are purged from this existence.

I'm sorry, but that's how powerful you've made them. The mere knowledge that even a single Valgardian could be anointed as the Emperor and shatter their freedom again means that not even one is allowed to survive.

It's not enough to drive them out anymore.Alright, then we could have many years of war to fight then if that happens.

As well, to note as this is to include society you should now that the effects of a war in lands very far away may well result in a people being discontent and the effects will cause a problem.

To note in response since you would be invading the northern lands more people will join my banner and the war will be taken up the people who see you as the evil invader and will fight far longer as they had much more to loss at the present.

Er...reply to me too?

Well yes, except the war of attrition was more pronounced on the Eastern Front.

However it can go the other way, Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan, among others, prove that small armies can win too.
Another example in battle would be Agincourt where the English beat a foe five times their number, although they did possess the advantage of terrain, leadership and favourable weather.

However, didn't your people flee from the north? Also, as you said the north is less forgiving, harsher, less fertile, this means a lower population. Which means less men.

I'd like to say Scan, I have nothing agaisnt with you, only that you claim your men and leader are the unrivalled best.

By the way, millions of people can be killed, Napoleon did it, the Roman's did it, Genghis Khan did it too.The north is a vast land which means a population over more terriotory then the south, I do know this means longer time to muster more forces yet it would explain the ability to raise the army needed.

Agincourt itself acutally has now been confirmed that the English were not even or barely were outnumbered two to one as the battle had about 12-15,000 French and 7-10,000 British.

On the other hand both were basciallly stragetists with a better army then their enemies and faced what would basically be peasents with pointy sticks compared to their professional battle hardened soldiers. Who you think would win?;)

Alright, then we could have many years of war to fight then if that happens.

As well, to note as this is to include society you should now that the effects of a war in lands very far away may well result in a people being discontent and the effects will cause a problem.

To note in response since you would be invading the northern lands more people will join my banner and the war will be taken up the people who see you as the evil invader and will fight far longer as they had much more to loss at the present.

True. However, remember that this becomes a war of genocide, and what will drive them on is the desire for lasting freedom.

The later stages of the war will likely consist of expert trackers moving out to finish off the Valgardians, likely with custom-made dweomers specifically aimed at wiping out those with the blood necessary for the creation of a new emperor.

True. However, remember that this becomes a war of genocide, and what will drive them on is the desire for lasting freedom.

The later stages of the war will likely consist of expert trackers moving out to finish off the Valgardians, likely with custom-made dweomers specifically aimed at wiping out those with the blood necessary for the creation of a new emperor.Who says that the new Emperor had not been created by the time they find him?;)

Yet, in reality he would have fled north with the remains of the guards of the palace who would hide him well enough to prevent all save a few lucky trackers who would be hunted themselves by the remains of the Rangers, note that if you check my factbook not all my soldiers are Valgardians so quite a loyalists would be able to hide and would well fight to protect the hope of the revial of the Empire.

Still, my other examples still stand and I still disagree with your statements saying your soldiers are the strongest on this world, just as I disagree with your Emperor being the strongest.

However, I accept the ability for a people to live on.

Just like if my nation were to fall, they could probably find some way to flee, either out to see in boats, or deep into the earth, or to take shelter in the lands af others.

Just like Hak and Thrash could come up with something.

HOWEVER, you can't argue that your state as a world power would be over, finished, kaput, for several decades while you take time to regrow your empire, in that time you would be vulnerable without allies to protect you.

But as I said, didn't your people flee from the north?

Still, my other examples still stand and I still disagree with your statements saying your soldiers are the strongest on this world, just as I disagree with your Emperor being the strongest.

However, I accept the ability for a people to live on.

Just like if my nation were to fall, they could probably find some way to flee, either out to see in boats, or deep into the earth, or to take shelter in the lands af others.

Just like Hak and Thrash could come up with something.

HOWEVER, you can't argue that your state as a world power would be over, finished, kaput, for several decades while you take time to regrow your empire, in that time you would be vulnerable without allies to protect you.

But as I said, didn't your people flee from the north?I use the term flee losely, as what I mean their home land was destroyed in a war against an ancient enemy, which now sleeps, so they wandered, after fleeing the remanents of their home land, and they came south after many generations which the background part of the thread does pretty well to explain broadly.

Fair enough.

But what of my other points?

Why are we even having this conversation? I don't think the collapse of your empire is likely to happen any time soon, because a single battle rarely does anything.
Usually it is a system or series of battles that solve things, as I said, the most likely military action I'd take again you would be an army helping the Kobold to drive you out of their territory, not all your land was stolen from the Kobold, was it?

Fair enough.

But what of my other points?

Why are we even having this conversation? I don't think the collapse of your empire is likely to happen any time soon, because a single battle rarely does anything.
Usually it is a system or series of battles that solve things, as I said, the most likely military action I'd take again you would be an army helping the Kobold to drive you out of their territory, not all your land was stolen from the Kobold, was it?Really only a good part of the mountains where to begin with.

Still, my other examples still stand and I still disagree with your statements saying your soldiers are the strongest on this world, just as I disagree with your Emperor being the strongest.

However, I accept the ability for a people to live on.

Just like if my nation were to fall, they could probably find some way to flee, either out to see in boats, or deep into the earth, or to take shelter in the lands af others.

Just like Hak and Thrash could come up with something.

HOWEVER, you can't argue that your state as a world power would be over, finished, kaput, for several decades while you take time to regrow your empire, in that time you would be vulnerable without allies to protect you.

But as I said, didn't your people flee from the north?

That does raise an interesting point. Any attempt to flee would likely result in a vise-like attack to finish them off.

See, the trouble is that since the Emperor is so powerful, and yet so expendable, mercy only means that the Valgardians would return, even more powerful.

Something has to give, and so long as someone who could arguably destroy everything single handedly is around, and can return to crush the world beneath their iron fists means that they cannot be allowed to live.

This is the sort of threat paladinly organisations are set up to guard against.

Besides which, if they're remanants, how can they possibly have the best army in the known world? Wouldn't they get killed first?

---

However, I must say, the Valgardians need to get nerfed in some fashion. As it stands they are too powerful.

Fair enough.

But what of my other points?

Why are we even having this conversation? I don't think the collapse of your empire is likely to happen any time soon, because a single battle rarely does anything.
Usually it is a system or series of battles that solve things, as I said, the most likely military action I'd take again you would be an army helping the Kobold to drive you out of their territory, not all your land was stolen from the Kobold, was it?

The mountainous areas were under Kobold control until the Valgardians took it from them. However, the leaders are natives of the valley area, and would likely push to drive them out completely.

The mountainous areas were under Kobold control until the Valgardians took it from them. However, the leaders are natives of the valley area, and would likely push to drive them out completely.There would be the problem as the Valgardians would have the ability to deploy their army in the conditions that best fit them.

There would be the problem as the Valgardians would have the ability to deploy their army in the conditions that best fit them.

Yet they are still relative newcomers to the area. Without an organised road system (sabotage, again) a military detachment could take many weeks to resond to a given incident, and kobolds are no slower than humans.

Besides which, we had better get back to the NPC war. Shall we start tomorrow?

@Uldarious: I think we got into this conversation when The Scandinavians posted why the Emperor was supposed to extraordinarily powerful, I commented on a BBEG style ending, and you complained about the overall power.

Then we all spiralled from there. I still think the Valgardians need to be nerfed, though.

Sleep time for me.

"Sometimes you must fight when you fight, you can't always have the best conditions. However, you can have the best conditions you can hope for."

Remember, the conqueror rarely gets to deploy in the best position.

I second Hak's statement about nerfing the Valgardians, you rarely get both a quality of troops and a quantity, the more men you have, the less well you may supply them, past a point.
I am simply saying that you cannot be the best in every way, hell it isn't really fair to be the undisputed best in any way, save in some cases such as Jade Star who'd logically have the best mages since he is only a mage school.
Well, Hak, that's because it is an overall package.
I could stand a big, bad, evil guys like out of a 70's fantasy novel, I could stand a sickeningly Tolkienish big bad guy, I wouldn't like it, but I could understand.

But having the best troops, powerful mages, technology, logistics, all these factors is just silly. He has too many factors in his favour, I don't believe it is fair for any single person to have a decisive advantage over everyone else, unless it is the sole focus of their nation.

Very true. There's also another good one.

"The first casualty of any plan is the plan itself."

Well, good night all.

EDIT: It's also that. Heck, my focus has shifted immensely towards the power of special characters simply because I cannot compete in any other way. Most obvious with the incident with the polymorphing and the rangers.

If there's anything you reckon I need to change about mine, feel free to point it out. I wrote up a little dossier on mine a short ways back.

Good night all.

But I'd like to say you're fine to me Hak, because you're balanced.

"Sometimes you must fight when you fight, you can't always have the best conditions. However, you can have the best conditions you can hope for."

Remember, the conqueror rarely gets to deploy in the best position.

I second Hak's statement about nerfing the Valgardians, you rarely get both a quality of troops and a quantity, the more men you have, the less well you may supply them, past a point.
I am simply saying that you cannot be the best in every way, hell it isn't really fair to be the undisputed best in any way, save in some cases such as Jade Star who'd logically have the best mages since he is only a mage school.
Well, Hak, that's because it is an overall package.
I could stand a big, bad, evil guys like out of a 70's fantasy novel, I could stand a sickeningly Tolkienish big bad guy, I wouldn't like it, but I could understand.

But having the best troops, powerful mages, technology, logistics, all these factors is just silly. He has too many factors in his favour, I don't believe it is fair for any single person to have a decisive advantage over everyone else, unless it is the sole focus of their nation.To note my army is professioanl and well trained, it is quite large due to the population size of my Empire, I also have only 2,100 mages, my tech levels mean I have some weaponary to keep up and that just means I have very very primitve grenads, fire works for awe effect, then that it is for that, good logistics come with a professioanl army, and I do admit I cannot nesscairly chose my battle field, but I can choose where to deploy in full force.

To note my army is professioanl and well trained, it is quite large due to the population size of my Empire, I also have only 2,100 mages, my tech levels mean I have some weaponary to keep up and that just means I have very very primitve grenads, fire works for awe effect, then that it is for that, good logistics come with a professioanl army, and I do admit I cannot nesscairly chose my battle field, but I can choose where to deploy in full force.

'Only' 2100 mages.

In fact, everybody else should have far larger advantages than you because, after counting your army numbers, I have discovered that you have an army 84% the size of my population!


Technology:

The Empire produces some of the finest and most advanced armor, weaponry, explosives, and most recent inventions in the world.

Not only do you have an army as large as most populations, you also have an army that is supposedly better trained, has better logistics and has four time as many battle mages than Jade Star has Teachers and Battlemages.

Your special characters are supposedly the most powerful, you have the most elite troops and they're still apparently better than anybody else's, who can see through any illusions.

I'm sorry, you just have too much which is good. Either you nerf a lot to make it even, or you allow everyone else to pull the big guns out on you at full strength with impunity.

If I decided to magnify my population to 8 million would that mean I could claim a similarly uber army, magical ability, logistics, and special characters? I think not.

'Only' 2100 mages.

In fact, everybody else should have far larger advantages than you because, after counting your army numbers, I have discovered that you have an army 84% the size of my population!



Not only do you have an army as large as most populations, you also have an army that is supposedly better trained, has better logistics and has four time as many battle mages than Jade Star has Teachers and Battlemages.

Your special characters are supposedly the most powerful, you have the most elite troops and they're still apparently better than anybody else's, who can see through any illusions.

I'm sorry, you just have too much which is good. Either you nerf a lot to make it even, or you allow everyone else to pull the big guns out on you at full strength with impunity.

If I decided to magnify my population to 8 million would that mean I could claim a similarly uber army, magical ability, logistics, and special characters? I think not.1. You know what go to the factbooks and see the army sizes. As well, I said I only have the strongest characters and not all the most powerful, as well you seem to have the idea that my whole army is a monster power, but all I said was that the Imperial Guard of the Empere were finest warriors, not nesscairly the strongest, warriors in the world. As well, the personal guard in the Emperor is only about 12 men compared to your special characters list is about right.

2. Your own army is pretty dame nerfed when compared to mine.Technology
The kobolds possess the capacity to create alchemical explosives, and in large quantities, through co-opted experts directing entire tribes in the production. They also have reserves of high powered magical gear, doled out to small squads of kobold agents by the Chamber. However, their main advantage is their incredible birth rate combined with their mining capacity and sudden organisation.

Remarkable Military Tactics
The signature tactic of the Kobold Alliance is to undermine the battlefield using their superior mining capabilities and, using large quantities of explosives, blowing the whole field sky high, as well as any troops unfortunate enough to be caught on the land. As is typical of kobolds, any advance into their territory is incredibly dangerous, as it is riddled with traps, ambushes and deadly chokeholds. Unfortunately, all of these take time to create, so they are most powerful on their own ground.

Military Numbers
Militarily, the Kobold Alliance is difficult to gauge, though estimates have ranged from tens of thousands and some guesses over a million. The closest estimate so far is around 500,000 individuals, but even so the Alliance's leaders prefer to leave such things vague.You claim to have an even larger army then mine. As well, you claim that you basiclly turned all your land into a giant mine field. Also, you seem to have came to the conclusin, despite the unchanged tech rules, you can have a big old explosion which is literally not even conceviable yet.

3. You wage a gureila warfare in mountains and throw boulders at people, but do not blow them all to hell and have all your land basically a gaint death trap.

4. You are going overboard with magical artifacts as magic is an energy and energy can be altered or exposed by other energies, aka specialy trained soldiers to see through disguses as all disguses have a flaw in them.

5. My army is relatively well when compared to those of a good number of other states, even check your own factbook for example.

6. My mages are reatively trained for particular fields, such as earth, water, and wind.

7. I actually am be more realistic then you as I am emulating the REAL empire of Rome in army size, population, organization, and disipline. By realistic I mean in tech and military terms.

If you had wanted realism, you shouldn't have done high fantasy.

This is not realism. This is an issue of *balance*.

Stop thinking of things as if you were Rome, and had such an incredible advantage that you conquer everything. Think of it as some sort of Videogame, where each group has its own strengths. If you can completely nullify a group's strengths, they may as well not be strengths.

If you wanted Rome, nerf the crap out of everything else. No mages, no uber characters, no uber rangers, no nothing else.

I wanted to be able to do deathtraps, and as such I sacrificed direct combat ability and cavalry for it. In fact, the factbook gives population estimates.

You want a big army and everything, you have to sacrifice for it.

Alright, as I say me and Hakurabi are the most active, Aqua Anu and Kurona are quite active, Kanami and Uldarious have shown more then enough interest to continue, Jade Star is more then active enough as he has rped quite well and has just lacked enough other player interest in himself, Thrashia has done more then enough to prove his own inrested in this thread, and quite a few others are not really active.

I'm just waiting for something interesting to happen.

I am afraid that I must withdraw from this rp. My most sincere apologies. My territory is up for a new player to grab if another can be found.

I've thought it over, and I'm going to overhaul the kobolds into something else. I'll hang on to most of the written characters, but they'll change mostly in details.

I'm going to go for one which is more oriented towards the army-heavy theme that PT world is.

Alright mod power active.

1. Magics now limited to rules and raising of golems, no, and only skeltons, as they are light weight, can be brought to move without killing the maker(s).
2. Tech strcitly limited to rules.
3. Army are now based to be more realistic and based upon the rules and I say where the line is and this shall vary army to army due to different focueses.
4. Special characters are basically equiplavalent to the powers of the heros of the Illiad when compared to normal controlled game drones.
5. I shall now begin to take everything with a grain of salt as the rp mod.
6. Please, do not go overboard with characters as now I limiting my Emperor to this world's equipvalent to Achilles.

Sorry, I'm going to bow out completely.

Much of the appeal for me was the very wide array of abilities which appeared to be possible at first, and with everything capped to such an extent, I feel as though you have everything at practically maximum power.

It had a lot of promise, but I feel it's drifted too far from high fantasy to hold my interest.

I also agree.
I liked the idea of a magical-technological synergy state, you seem to only be interested in being the best.
Most fantasy rp's start with everyone on equal footing, you decided not too do that, that's fair enough, but you made things too imbalanced after that.
You seem so focussed on having the strongest king, the best army, the best logistics, the best technology.
I wouldn't mind if you'd let others enjoy their own specific advantages but you don't seem to want that either.
Basically, I don't like the way you have to be the best, when you can't be you nerf everyone.
But really Thrasia and the Blubs have left, Hak has left, there's no one good left to RP with.

Maybe next time.

Sorry, I'm going to bow out completely.

Much of the appeal for me was the very wide array of abilities which appeared to be possible at first, and with everything capped to such an extent, I feel as though you have everything at practically maximum power.

It had a lot of promise, but I feel it's drifted too far from high fantasy to hold my interest.You know what since there is to much debate over more sheer sutborness I will only make my king the strongest character, yet all the players will only be at a max ten levels below him. As well, my Imperial guard shall be ten levels below any band of adventurers who come in. Also, the Personal guard shall be at the same level.

Army shall be based on realistic numbers and tatics though, yet powerful mages killing many people are now allowed to tear through the front, before they die from exhaustion or are killed.

The thread is now being revamped back to the front without any of the BS made in the last pages by me.

Sorry for my arrogance.

Aka, I am no implementing the mod systme and looking for a supreme mode and thread mode, as I am the rule mod.

Looks like I'm gone as well.
I may come back once this has stabilized a bit, maybe if it gets more active, which seems unlikely.
The FT crowd has responded (fairly) well to the concept of Tolaria as an FT entity, so I think I'll concentrate more on that, seeing as none of my threads got an IC reply from Earth PT.