NationStates Jolt Archive

In response to the Polish,
[i]"Were it not for your country, this war might have never happened. Greece has accepted peace, but is smoothing out the details. We are, however, begging Bulgaria to accept money, rather than land, as the land he wants is Greek land, with Greek people."

OOC - Actually, the British press would be campaigning for the Greece, against the Germans.

ooc
not anymore it isn't... Greece is losing support, especially when its exile military is fighting amongst itself, and the government hasn't seemed to realize that it needs peace to end the occupation

As a Moderator

IC: The Kurdish representatives (accompanying both the French and Russian delegations), insist that Mosul is indeed a “Kurdish City” and that the “Kurds are not Turks,” and loudly protest all German characterizations to the contrary. They cite population statistics recently collected from Mosul and the surrounding countryside to prove their point.

It is pointed out that 100,000 Kurds took up arms to fight for their freedom against “Turkish misrule” and (perhaps more importantly) are still under arms, ready to protect that newly acquired freedom. The Kurdish delegation argues in its closing statement that if the peoples of Finland, Poland, the Baltic’s, Macedonia, and Arabia are entitled to their own nations then so are the Kurds.

(ooc: someone has to RP the Kurdish leaders, and I think we can all agree that is how their delegation would react.)

ooc
tis true

IC
The American and British press picks up the story and begins to run it, and signficant public sympathy for an independent Kurdistan of some sort is developed. Especially for Mosul. Although most Americans and Britons have no idea where that is exactly.

Parthini;11984672']Insulted Jackie Fisher stands. As he opens his mouth, Earl Battenberg swiftly pulls him down before he says anything rash. Sir Grey takes his place.

"Dear Baron! No doubt all sides here, even the Norweigans have their own interests. Surely they are not holding back simply to let their interests be thrown aside. It also suffices to say that I am merely speaking for my Arab friends who have been slighted by this treaty. However, simply for the sake of peace, Britain is willing to agree to simply a Saudi State in Arabia and an independant southern Mesopotamia."

Rosen nods, choosing to ignore Fisher. "Thank you sir. However, I would like to reiterate the terms one last time..."


-Turkey is reduced to Anatolia and European Turkey

-Mosul is to become the new capital of an independent Kurdistan.

-Armenia is to be created as an independent nation.

-Palestine, Lebanon and Syria become French protectrates.

-Antioch is returned to the Turks.

-Baghdad becomes a Sunni state under Russian protection.

-Basra becomes an independent, Shi'ite nation.

-Russian shipping is allowed to use the port of Basra.

-Arabia becomes an independent nation.

Sir Grey sighs and then assents.

"I must bring up one final issue. Violations of the Hague Conventions on Laws of the Seas have occurred in this war and they must be addressed. Thus, I propose that all nations that border the sea attend a separate conference to be held next year in London regarding the Laws of the Seas and the upholding of the Hague Conventions."

"Aside from that, unless there are further issues, that I propose that the final draft be written and all nations sign it in the hope for an ever lasting peace."

All French West Africa and Dakar to France. Only the IO islands like Reunion and the Comoros, not Madagascar

OOC: missed this post, or I would have replied sooner.

IC:
France will agree to the German proposal concerning West Africa and the Indian Ocean.

"Aside from that, unless there are further issues, that I propose that the final draft be written and all nations sign it in the hope for an ever lasting peace."

The United States endorses the current positions as well. It would appear that we finally have a peace of sorts (conviniently ignoring the fact that the balkans arent resolved yet, but hey...)

OOC - First of all, I never listened into anyone else's conversation.
Secondly its a third Kingdom rather than a third Empire.
And lastly, my comment was a polite one, I don't know what your first language is, but my comment was never intended to be anything other than polite, or is this just further evidence that the Emperor has developed Parkinson's?

ooc:
I apologize if you took any OOC offense to my comments. All IC comments are IC only and are not meant to represent my personal feelings on any player or any ethnic group for that matter.

As to the matter of listening into conversations, it was from my miss-reading of this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11981387&postcount=214) which I originally thought mentioned Franz's mutterings on Serbia.

And yes, it is a third kingdom, and yes the Emperor is going a little crazy which is oddly convenient for my RP'ing purposes :)

IC:
The Austro-Hungarian Empire supports the British calls for dealing with the matters of Shipping and Naval rights though the AHE feels that it would be best suited for another time and conference.

And what of Rhodes?

ooc
a summary of the treaty as agreed to at this point would be a good idea

ooc
not anymore it isn't... Greece is losing support, especially when its exile military is fighting amongst itself, and the government hasn't seemed to realize that it needs peace to end the occupation

Its not fighting amongst itself, Metaxas was just a convenient scapegoat for all this, and I blamed him for everything that went wrong.

Also, the owner of The Times, Daily Mail, and Daily Mirror during 1913 was the British Director of Propaganda against the Central Powers during World War I due to his feelings against these countries.

And what of Rhodes?

It should be returned to the Ottoman Empire.

And what of Rhodes?

France pushes for Italy to receive Rhodes.

It should be returned to the Ottoman Empire.

Which side were you on? Suddenly Italy is liking the Bulgarian proposals... or even the Albanian.

Greece asks why, exactly Italy should receive Rhodes, seeing as it contains ethnic Greeks, and is part of the Ottoman Empire, and French troops fought for it.

Its not fighting amongst itself, Metaxas was just a convenient scapegoat for all this, and I blamed him for everything that went wrong.

Also, the owner of The Times, Daily Mail, and Daily Mirror during 1913 was the British Director of Propaganda against the Central Powers during World War I due to his feelings against these countries.

ooc
I had indicated previously, although you might have missed it, that I did not want major historical personages killed off simply because a player doesn't like them. So I have a problem with you killing Metaxas. I will let it slide, but you are going to accept the fact that the English Speaking press notes that Greece invaded its neighbors twice in less then 10 years, and as far as most Americans and Brits are concerned, deserves to be punished.

take it or leave it

ooc
a summary of the treaty as agreed to at this point would be a good idea

ooc: I’ll write one up if there’s no objection.

OOC - Actually, you killed off the my most pro-German, therefore averting the National Schism/Ethnikos Dikhasmos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Schism) by killing Crown Prince Constantine, so maybe I should be thanking you ;)
But regardless, Metaxas, for all his quasi-facist leanings, did Greece much good, and I was hoping to have him as a future leader, but in the end, he became a convenient scapegoat for all Greece's troubles in the war.

IC - The Greek delegate wishes others to know that the Greek proposal is in fact not far off the proposals of the Bulgarians, and hopes it will be accepted.

ooc
going to be gone soon, and won't be back until Sunday

For treaty purposes, the Poles, Balts, Ukranians, and Albanians will follow the lead of Germany. The Imperial Chinese will follow the lead of Russia.

the NPCs pretty much have what they hope to get out of the treaty anyway and are just waiting to sign.

No treaty by Sunday when I come back, and expect domestic pressures to get really, really ugly (evil grin), which should put some pressures on you players similar to the pressures your government would be facing

ooc: the WIF map is looking particularly cumbersome for dealing with the Middle East, I suggest Ato-Sara draw up a color coded map like we have for Divided China. Concerning Lebanon, this time around it is somewhat smaller, as the French have not expanded its borders to include Syrian territory (as they did post WWI), nor are they likely to. An independent Kurdistan would include territory from not only Turkey and Iraq, but also Syria and Persia (Persia being a Russian Client State). An independent Armenia would include significant Eastern Turkish territory as well as Russian Armenia. Iraq will not exist, being the Kingdoms of Bagdad and Basra. Jordan also does not exist, Palestine and Jordan being merged together to form the French Protectorate of “Greater Palestine.” Turkey is smaller, having lost territory in its East to Kurdistan and Armenia.

ooc: the WIF map is looking particularly cumbersome for dealing with the Middle East, I suggest Ato-Sara draw up a color coded map like we have for Divided China. Concerning Lebanon, this time around it is somewhat smaller, as the French have not this time around expanded its borders to include Syrian territory (as they did post WWI), nor are they likely to. An independent Kurdistan would include territory from not only Turkey and Iraq, but also Syria and Persia (Persia being a Russian Client State). An independent Armenia would include significant Eastern Turkish territory as well as Russian Armenia. Iraq will not exist, being the Kingdoms of Bagdad and Basra. Jordan also does not exist, Palestine and Jordan being merged together to form the French Protectorate of “Greater Palestine.” Turkey is smaller, having lost territory in its East to Kurdistan and Armenia.

reduce actual Armenian Turkey that still has Armenians in it by 50%

Persia isn't part of the talks and isn't going to be happy about losing territory but will agree.. for now

OOC: Here is some maps for the Eastern Turkey sitution

Map of Armenia
http://www.atlas-of-conflicts.com/areas/armenia-and-karabakh/maps/armenia-and-turkey-sm.jpg

Map of Kurdistan
http://schema-root.org/region/middle_east/kurdistan/kurdistan.gif

OOC: could Ato-Sara do a map of the world for the treaty?

OOC: I've got a bit of a realism problem with creating a Basra and a Baghdad. We are using Rl knowledge of the future to fix a problem decades in advance. Realistically, no one gives a shit about the Sunni's and the Shiites and any problems betweenthem, hell three years ago most people probaly didn't know the Muslim religion was split into Sunni's and Shiites, so splitting Iraq along those lines doesnt seem to realistic. Not for this time period.

OOC: I've got a bit of a realism problem with creating a Basra and a Baghdad. We are using Rl knowledge of the future to fix a problem decades in advance. Realistically, no one gives a shit about the Sunni's and the Shiites and any problems betweenthem, hell three years ago most people probaly didn't know the Muslim religion was split into Sunni's and Shiites, so splitting Iraq along those lines doesnt seem to realistic. Not for this time period.

OOC: Is it not very fortunate then that Bagdad was to be separated from Basra for reasons of influence (Bagdad French/Russian, Basra Russian) and now it is being separated from Bagdad to appease the British (who want Basra to be independent and out of Russia's hands).

Also, historically, the creation of Iraq was not a forgone conclusion, Iraq being merely a post-war British scheme to get land at France's expense and throw something to their Arab Allies. There were those who wanted to divide the Fertile Crescent up further and there were those who recognized the divisions but did not have the influence to point out what mistakes were being made. Also, Basra and Bagdad do not presently think of themselves as being part of a single country.

IC the division is sound.

.

IC the division is sound.

agreed, for same reasons

OOC:

Maps of Armenia and Kurdistan on WiF, showing the western, southern and northern (and in the case of Armenia) the eastern borders.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/middleeast2-1.jpg

Eastern Borders of Kurdistan, Basra, Baghdad and the Persias thrown in for good measure:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/eastborder.jpg

Baghdad/Basra Border:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/bagbas.jpg

As the conference winds down the various diplomatic staffs come together and begin the laborious process of organizing the various agreements put down on paper and made by word of mouth through the careful reading of notes and wracking of memories. Eventually a finalized version is sent to the various delegations for last minute review before the official signing ceremony.


The Treaty of Arlington

Section 1: Europe

Subsection A: Alsace-Lorraine, the Saar, the Rhineland, and the German Territories adjacent to Alsace-Lorraine

Alsace-Lorraine shall be ceded by the German Empire to the Republic of France.
i. Alsace-Lorraine shall be kept demilitarized.

b) The Saar Region shall be returned to the Empire of Germany.
i. The Saar region shall be returned to Germany.
ii. The Saar region shall be kept demilitarized.
iii. France and Germany shall divide the Coal resources of the Saar equally between themselves (.5 coal to each).

c) The Rhineland shall be returned to the Empire of Germany.
i. The Rhineland shall be kept demilitarized.

d) The German Territories adjacent to Alsace-Lorraine shall be kept demilitarized.


Subsection B: Poland and the Baltic States

a) Poland is to be recreated out of Russian, German, and Austro-Hungarian territory (ooc: everything on the World in Flames map except Poznan, the AHE loses a production center).

b) The Baltic States of Estonia, Lithuenia, and Latvia are to be recreated out of Russian territory (ooc: as they are on the WIF map).


Subsection C: European Russia

a) Byelorussia is to be returned to the Empire of Russia.

b) The Ukraine (ooc defined as Ukraine territory on the WIF map west of the Dneister River and not including Sevastopol) shall be granted autonomy within the Russian Empire; being allowed its own Parliament, local laws, and defense forces.
i. The Ukrainian Defense Forces in times of war or emergency fall under the control of the Russian Central Government.
ii. The Russian Central Government may station 1 Russian corp for every 3 Ukrainian in the Ukraine and shall appoint the Ukrainian Military Governor.
iii. Surplus tax revenue is to go to the Russian Central Government and Ukraine exists within the Russian customs union (ooc Russia gets all the Ukraine’s spare points).
iv. The Russian central government may move troops through the Ukraine unrestricted in both times of peace and war.
v. All nations signing this treaty pledge non-interference in the Russian Empires internal affairs (which includes the Ukraine).


Subsection D: Macedonia and Greece

a) Under the supervision of council consisting of Bulgaria, Albania and The Dual Monarchy, the independent Kingdom of Macedonia shall be created consisting of Greek Macedonia, Albanian Macedonia (Minus Ethnic Albanian Macedonian Territories indicated earlier), and Bulgarian Macedonia.

b) The Province and Port City of Salonika is ceded by the Kingdom of Greece to the newly formed Kingdom of Macedonia.
i. Bulgaria shall retain the right to establish, Garrison and maintain both a Naval base and a Fortress in the premises of the City of Salonika near the Greek Border.
ii. Bulgaria shall pay for the relocation of the Greek inhabitants of Salonika (3 points).

c) Conscription is prohibited in Greece and no Foreign Troops (excepting those of the United Kingdom) beyond the size of a brigade may be stationed in Greece without the mutual consent of its neighbors.

d) Greece shall give 1 Shipping Unit each to Bulgaria, Albania, Macedonia, and The Dual Monarchy as reparations for its aggression (4 shipping units in total).


Subsection E: Rumania

a) Rumania will return to its prewar borders

b) Rumania will limit it's military to no more then 150,000 man army including reserves; 2 air units, but will not allow any offensive weaponry or heavy artillery (ooc no arty units, no motorized units, no regular/heavy infantry corps) and will only be allowed to have no more than 100 fighter aircraft (ooc 1 fighter unit), the rest of the Rumanian air-force (ooc 1 unit) only being comprised of recon aircraft. No bomber aircraft of any kind is permitted.

c) Rumania will allow the Germans to garrison Ploesti with 1 Garrison, and will sell its oil only to the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Germany, and Bulgaria at standard European market price or use it for domestic purposes unless it receives permission from the above countries.

d) Rumania will sign a permanent non-aggression Pact with Bulgaria


Subsection F: The Mediterranean

a) Rhodes is ceded by the Ottoman Empire to the Kingdom of Italy.

b) The Province of Korkyra is ceded by the Kingdom of Greece to the Republic of Albania.

c) Sazan Island is ceded by the Kingdom of Greece to the Republic of Albania.


Section 2: Colonies

Subsection A: French Equatorial Africa and the French Islands of Reunion and the Comoros are ceded to the German Empire.

Subsection B: All other French and Italian Colonies/Overseas Territories under Coalition occupation are to be immediately returned to France and Italy.

Subsection C: The Coalition will return the Canary Islands to Spain and Spain will return German Morocco to Germany.


Section 3: The Middle East

Subsection A: The Ottoman Empire is to be reduced to Turkish Anatolia and European Turkey.


Subsection B: An independent Armenia is to be created out of Ottoman and Russian territory.
i. Armenia shall become a protectorate of the Empire of Russia


Subsection C: An independent Kurdistan is to be created out of Ottoman, Syrian, Mesopotamian, and Persian territory.
i. Kurdistan is hereby recognized as within Russia’s sphere of influence.
ii. Kurdistan will sign an alliance treaty with the Empire of Russia.


Subsection D: Lebanon and Greater Palestine (Palestine and Trans-Jordan on the WIF map) are to become French Protectorates.
a) The Holy City of Jerusalem shall become an international city governed by a local council with advice provided by a religious body made up of representatives from the cities many faiths.
i. France shall have the duty of policing and protecting Jerusalem and all pilgrims who enter Greater Palestine.


Subsection E: Syria is to become a French Protectorate and remain such until France judges it ready for self-government.


Subsection F: The Kingdom of Baghdad is to be created out of Sunni Mesopotamia and be made a Russian protectorate.


Subsection G: The independent Kingdom of Basra is to be created out of Southern Mesopotamia.
i. Russian merchant ships will have the right to use Basra’s ports in both times of peace and times of war.


Subsection H: Arabia shall be granted independence by the Ottoman Empire and become an independent Kingdom.


Section 4: The Far East

Subsection A: Japan

a) Japan is to vacate all Russian territory and pay France six points in reparations for its violation of the Franco-Japanese Non-Aggression Treaty (payment to be made immediately).

b) Japan may purchase Northern half of Sakhalin Island from Russia for 15 points.


Subsection B: China and Mongolia

a) The provinces of Hebei, Tianjin, and Shandong are to be ceded to Imperial China.

b) All of Outer Mongolia is to be ceded to Imperial China.

c) Russia shall return Sinkiang to Imperial China.


Subsection C: The issue of Indochina has been worked out separately through the Treaty of Phnom Penh.


Section 5: Miscellaneous

Subsection A: Protection of Minorities:

a) All Balkan states (including the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires) must sign a treaty protecting the rights of minorities within their borders. This treaty will include the promise not to commit acts of state terror, deprive people unlawfully of their land, conduct persecution on religious or ethnic grounds, conduct forced deportations, etc.
i. The relocation of the Greek population of Salonika shall be an exception specifically noted in this treaty.

Subsection B: All standards and military symbols taken in battle are to be returned to their respective countries.
i. The Kingdom of Greece, the former nation of Serbia, the Ottoman Empire, the Kingdom of Rumania, and the Empire of Japan are to be exceptions, in that they must return all standards/symbols but no nation is required to return their standards to them (ooc: punishment for the breaking of internationally recognized treaties).

Sir Grey, although approving of the Treaty as a whole, reiterates the need for a separate conference to be held regarding the Law of the Sea and requests that it be placed in the treaty, with all nations with vested interest in the Seas attending.

Parthini;11987279']Sir Grey, although approving of the Treaty as a whole, reiterates the need for a separate conference to be held regarding the Law of the Sea and requests that it be placed in the treaty, with all nations with vested interest in the Seas attending.

Professional Diplomats once again explain that the proposal for such a conference does not belong in the Treaty of Arlington, as it is a peace treaty between belligerents.

Subsection D: Macedonia and Greece

a) Under the supervision of council consisting of Bulgaria, Albania and The Dual Monarchy, the independent Kingdom of Macedonia shall be created consisting of Greek Macedonia, Albanian Macedonia (Minus Ethnic Albanian Macedonian Territories indicated earlier), and Bulgarian Macedonia.

Bulgarian Macedonia is not included. please change "kingdom" to "territory" as the council has still yet have to decide this. ie: might become principality or Republic or somthing else.

b) The Province and Port City of Salonika is ceded by the Kingdom of Greece to the newly formed Kingdom of Macedonia.

Most of the province is to be ceded to Bulgaria, only the port city and enough territory to make a connection with Greek Macedonia is to be ceded to Macedonia.

c) Conscription is prohibited in Greece and no Foreign Troops (excepting those of the United Kingdom) beyond the size of a brigade may be stationed in Greece without the mutual consent of its neighbors.

Those troops of the United Kingdom are also to be subject to the consent of its neighbors. I don't know why they should be excluded or why would the British care to station more than a Brigade as "advisors" to Greece. Though if they decide for some reason to do this they can enter into negotiations like anyone else, considering Good British-Bulgarian relations it shouldn't be much of a problem.

Also unmentioned are Albanian gains of the Sazan Islands and Korykra

Subsection D: Macedonia and Greece

Most of the province is to be ceded to Bulgaria, only the port city and enough territory to make a connection with Greek Macedonia is to be ceded to Macedonia.

Geographers point out that such is either impossible or, if possible, makes little sense. To get the port city of Salonika Macedonia would by default control the majority of Salonika province (ooc: and thus control the Salonika Hex, look at the WIF map).

http://files.photojerk.com/dumelow/europe.PNG


Also unmentioned are Albanian gains of the Sazan Islands and Korykra

The Bulgarian delegation is urged to read the entire treaty before attempting correction (ooc: its there under Subsection F: The Mediterranean).

OOC: Meaning, from Salonika extend a near-vertical line to the point where modern day Bulgarian-Macedonian Borders meet whats to the right goes to Bulgaria, what's to the Left goes to Macedonia.

In other words what was Greek east of the Salonika hex goes to Bulgaria.

Edit: I feel the confusion is being aroused since I have had a different map in my mind being used as refereance.

Bulgarian Macedonia is not included. please change "kingdom" to "territory" as the council has still yet have to decide this. ie: might become principality or Republic or somthing else.

That will be edited into the next draft of the treaty.

Those troops of the United Kingdom are also to be subject to the consent of its neighbors. I don't know why they should be excluded or why would the British care to station more than a Brigade as "advisors" to Greece. Though if they decide for some reason to do this they can enter into negotiations like anyone else, considering Good British-Bulgarian relations it shouldn't be much of a problem.

It is asked if this is a serious issue for Bulgaria. If, after all, relations with England are good then why expand the restrictions to them as well?

In other words what was Greek east of the Salonika hex goes to Bulgaria.

OOC: That will be edited into the next draft of the treaty.

Actually, this is what was agreed to:
# Forested hex north of Salonika to Macedonia
# All other hexes east of Salonika, with the exception of the Autonomous Monastic State of the Holy Mountain
# Sazan Island to Albania

Albania dropped its claims to Corfu. Nothing else was agreed to.

Also, I was honour bound to protect Serbia and Rumania from foreign aggression. Albania broke its NAP with me when it attacked me.

It is asked if this is a serious issue for Bulgaria. If, after all, relations with England are good then why expand the restrictions to them as well?

It is not of too much importance at this time, though we would rather that the original terms are used, though if the British people and parlament feel that there exists some vital reason that they should be exempted, then we are ready to hear it.

Albania dropped its claims to Corfu. Nothing else was agreed to.

Well, it was again demanded on their behalf by Bulgaria, if they don't want it they can say so, then it may go to Macedonia, then if they don't want it I guess we can make it a nice DMZ.

Also, I was honour bound to protect Serbia and Rumania from foreign aggression. Albania broke its NAP with me when it attacked me.

Too bad this honour bund agreement is not written in paper nor formally and publically declared, otherwise it would have actually meant something, before Greece was over-run of course maybe.

As for Albania, they entered the war when you broke the Oslo peace treaties, just use the same logic as the other alliance memebers did.

Also, what I proposed has US, British, and Norwegian backing, Ames, so please include that.

Subsection D: Macedonia and Greece

a) Under the supervision of council consisting of Bulgaria, Albania and The Dual Monarchy, the independent Kingdom of Macedonia shall be created consisting of the Greek Prefectures of Chalcidice, Kilkis, Pella, and the Lagadas area of the Thessaloniki Prefecture*, Albanian Macedonia (Minus Ethnic Albanian Macedonian Territories indicated earlier), and Bulgarian Macedonia.
i)The Port City of Thessaloniki will be open for Macedonian Merchant shipping, thereby giving the nation access to world trade.
ii)The Kingdom of Greece will pay for 1 Merchant Shipping Unit for the Kingdom of Macedonia

b) The Provinces of Kavala, Serres and Drama are ceded to Bulgaria

c) Conscription is prohibited in Greece and no Foreign Troops (excepting those of the United Kingdom) beyond the size of a brigade may be stationed in Greece without the mutual consent of its neighbours.

d) Greece shall give X points each to Bulgaria, Albania, Macedonia, and The Dual Monarchy for a period of X years.



*To see the Lagadas area of the Prefecture:
http://www.gtp.gr/MGfiles/maps/map48.GIF

Also, Bulgaria now has the port city of Kavala, giving it access to the Adreatic.
Up to Coalition and neutral nations to decide how much I have to pay, although I would prefer large payments to be made in short periods of time.

This has backing from USA, UK, and SRC.

Well, it was again demanded on their behalf by Bulgaria, if they don't want it they can say so, then it may go to Macedonia, then if they don't want it I guess we can make it a nice DMZ.
Umm, its an island not a zone I'm afraid! And Macedonia has no link with it. If you wish me not to place any navy there, then I can agree to that.

Bulgaria sticks with its own terms.

iii. France and Germany shall divide the Coal resources of the Saar equally between themselves (.5 coal to each).

Subsection A: French Equatorial Africa and the French Islands of Reunion and the Comoros are ceded to the German Empire.

Subsection B: All other French and Italian Colonies/Overseas Territories under Coalition occupation are to be immediately returned to France and Italy.

b) Japan may purchase Northern half of Sakhalin Island from Russia for 15 points.



OOC: France isn't getting anything from the Saar, that was never agreed to.

I'm also getting Mauritius.

And its not Japan may buy Sakhalin, Russia agreed to sell, so its Japan WILL buy Sakhalin.

OOC: Also, you forgot to include the fact that an independent Mongolian state is being created.

OOC: France isn't getting anything from the Saar, that was never agreed to

OOC: France specifically said that in return for a demilitarized zone of the scope Germany wanted the Saar coal must be shared (Proposal 3). That was never dropped, nor did France ever agree to drop it.

OOC: Also, you forgot to include the fact that an independent Mongolian state is being created.

Japan can do whatever it wants with its land postwar, if it wants to keep its "independent" Mongolian state it is perfectly free to.

I'm also getting Mauritius.

Will be added.

OOC: I think you mean Ukraine west of Dneister river, not Danube...
IC:

Japan agrees to its part of the treaty, but will wait until the final draft has been agreed to (the little kinks hammered out)

I'm also getting Mauritius.

OOC: Mauritius is British, bud. They took it from France in 1810. You should take that up with Parth.

Crown Prince Ferdinand sends a private note the the Greek delegation, urging them to accept the terms of the treaty, lest more harsh ones be imposed upon Greece.

OOC: France specifically said that in return for a demilitarized zone of the scope Germany wanted the Saar coal must be shared (Proposal 3). That was never dropped, nor did France ever agree to drop it.



OOC: Never agreed to that, and I won't agree to that, France wants coal they can pay for it like everyone else, they aren't taking mine. Its pretty bad that I'd actually have to pay France to accept a DMZ.

Germany, and in turn all the other nations following our lead won't accept the treaty till that is fixed.

IC: Germany would like to see a conference set up regarding international law at sea during wartime as our British moderators have suggested. Issues such as the illegal sinking of mercheant shipping need to be discussed.

Japan issues support for Britain's proposal on the naval conference

Germany would like to see a conference set up regarding international law at sea during wartime as our British moderators have suggested. Issues such as the illegal sinking of mercheant shipping need to be discussed.

Rosen whole-heartedly agrees, noting that the issue of blockading a country's food supply must also come up in the course of such a conference.

France also voices support for such a conference. The French delegation also asks why it is that the Germans had no quarrel with the terms dealing with Saar until they are about to sign the treaty?

Even so, in the greater interest of peace, France will yield to Germany on this matter.

OOC: The issue of the Saar's coal was included in the three French proposals I offered earlier, along with the demilitarization of AL, the Rhineland, etc. If it's so objectionable, why didn't Germany challenge it when it was first proposed?

OOC: I'll give you Mauritius for Southwest Africa :p

IC: Sir Grey announces that if certain people find it so objectionable to put something in the treaty that all will do anyway, that Britain will hold a conference regarding the Laws of the Sea, violations occurring during the Great War, and continual regard for such laws in London next year.

He hopes that all nations with vested interest in the sea will attend.

OOC: Scratch that. No one is going to be here for at least a few days. I'll start it on Sunday.

Parthini;11988577']OOC: I'll give you Mauritius for Southwest Africa :p

IC: Sir Grey announces that if certain people find it so objectionable to put something in the treaty that all will do anyway, that Britain will hold a conference regarding the Laws of the Sea, violations occurring during the Great War, and continual regard for such laws in London next year.

He hopes that all nations with vested interest in the sea will attend.

OOC: I'll start a thread now, and we can just pretend that its 1914.

Japan announces its intent to attend

A more polished second draft of the treaty is sent to the various delegations for review and approval.

The Treaty of Arlington

Section 1: Europe

Subsection A: Alsace-Lorraine, the Saar, the Rhineland, and the German Territories adjacent to Alsace-Lorraine

a) Alsace-Lorraine shall be ceded by the German Empire to the Republic of France.
i. Alsace-Lorraine shall be kept demilitarized.

b) The Saar Region shall be returned to the Empire of Germany.
i. The Saar region shall be kept demilitarized.

c) The Rhineland shall be returned to the Empire of Germany.
i. The Rhineland shall be kept demilitarized.

d) The German Territories adjacent to Alsace-Lorraine shall be kept demilitarized.


Subsection B: Poland and the Baltic States

a) Poland is to be recreated out of Russian, German, and Austro-Hungarian territory (ooc: everything on the World in Flames map except Poznan, the AHE loses a production center).

b) The Baltic States of Estonia, Lithuenia, and Latvia are to be recreated out of Russian territory (ooc: as they are on the WIF map).


Subsection C: European Russia

a) Byelorussia is to be returned to the Empire of Russia.

b) The Ukraine (ooc defined as Ukraine territory on the WIF map west of the Dneiper River and not including Sevastopol) shall be granted autonomy within the Russian Empire; being allowed its own Parliament, local laws, and defense forces.
i. The Ukrainian Defense Forces in times of war or emergency fall under the control of the Russian Central Government.
ii. The Russian Central Government may station 1 Russian corp for every 3 Ukrainian in the Ukraine and shall appoint the Ukrainian Military Governor.
iii. Surplus tax revenue is to go to the Russian Central Government and Ukraine exists within the Russian customs union (ooc Russia gets all the Ukraine’s spare points).
iv. The Russian central government may move troops through the Ukraine unrestricted in both times of peace and war.
v. All nations signing this treaty pledge non-interference in the Russian Empires internal affairs (which includes the Ukraine).


Subsection D: Macedonia and Greece

a) Under the supervision of council consisting of Bulgaria, Albania and The Dual Monarchy, the independent Territory of Macedonia shall be created consisting of Greek Macedonia and Albanian Macedonia (Minus the Ethnic Albanian and equally mixed Macedonian Territories indicated earlier).

b) The Port City of Salonika and surrounding countryside (ooc: the Salonika Hex on the WIF map) is ceded by the Kingdom of Greece to the newly formed Kingdom of Macedonia.
i. Bulgaria shall retain the right to establish, Garrison and maintain both a Naval base and a Fortress in the premises of the City of Salonika near the Greek Border.
ii. Bulgaria shall pay for the relocation of the Greek inhabitants of Salonika (3 points).

e) All Greek territory east of Salonika (ooc: the Salonika Hex on the WIF map) is ceded by the Kingdom of Greece to the Kingdom of Bulgaria.

d) Conscription is prohibited in Greece and no Foreign Troops (excepting those of the United Kingdom) beyond the size of a brigade may be stationed in Greece without the mutual consent of its neighbors.

e) Greece shall give 1 Shipping Unit each to Bulgaria, Albania, Macedonia, and The Dual Monarchy as reparations for its aggression (4 shipping units in total).


Subsection E: Rumania

a) Rumania will return to its prewar borders

b) Rumania will limit it's military to no more then 150,000 man army including reserves; 2 air units, but will not allow any offensive weaponry or heavy artillery (ooc no arty units, no motorized units, no regular/heavy infantry corps) and will only be allowed to have no more than 100 fighter aircraft (ooc 1 fighter unit), the rest of the Rumanian air-force (ooc 1 unit) only being comprised of recon aircraft. No bomber aircraft of any kind is permitted.

c) Rumania will allow the Germans to garrison Ploesti with 1 Garrison, and will sell its oil only to the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Germany, and Bulgaria at standard European market price or use it for domestic purposes unless it receives permission from the above countries.

d) Rumania will sign a permanent non-aggression Pact with Bulgaria


Subsection F: The Mediterranean

a) Rhodes is ceded by the Ottoman Empire to the Kingdom of Italy.

b) The Province of Korkyra is ceded by the Kingdom of Greece to the Republic of Albania.

c) Sazan Island is ceded by the Kingdom of Greece to the Republic of Albania.


Section 2: Colonies

Subsection A: French Equatorial Africa and the French Islands of Reunion and the Comoros are ceded to the German Empire.

Subsection B: All other French and Italian Colonies/Overseas Territories under Coalition occupation are to be immediately returned to France and Italy.

Subsection C: The Coalition will return the Canary Islands to Spain and Spain will return German Morocco to Germany.


Section 3: The Middle East

Subsection A: The Ottoman Empire is to be reduced to Turkish Anatolia and European Turkey.


Subsection B: An independent Armenia is to be created out of Ottoman and Russian territory.
i. Armenia shall become a protectorate of the Empire of Russia


Subsection C: An independent Kurdistan is to be created out of Ottoman, Syrian, Mesopotamian, and Persian territory.
i. Kurdistan is hereby recognized as within Russia’s sphere of influence.
ii. Kurdistan will sign an alliance treaty with the Empire of Russia.

(ooc: some rough approximations (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11986983&postcount=276) of borders on the WIF map.)


Subsection D: Lebanon and Greater Palestine (Palestine and Trans-Jordan on the WIF map) are to become French Protectorates.
a) The Holy City of Jerusalem shall become an international city governed by a local council with advice provided by a religious body made up of representatives from the cities many faiths.
i. France shall have the duty of policing and protecting Jerusalem and all pilgrims who enter Greater Palestine.


Subsection E: Syria is to become a French Protectorate and remain such until France judges it ready for self-government.


Subsection F: The Kingdom of Baghdad is to be created out of Sunni Mesopotamia and be made a Russian protectorate.


Subsection G: The independent Kingdom of Basra is to be created out of Southern Mesopotamia.
i. Russian merchant ships will have the right to use Basra’s ports in both times of peace and times of war.


Subsection H: Arabia shall be granted independence by the Ottoman Empire and become an independent Kingdom.


Section 4: The Far East

Subsection A: Japan

a) Japan is to vacate all Russian territory and pay France six points in reparations for its violation of the Franco-Japanese Non-Aggression Treaty (payment to be made immediately).

b) Japan may purchase Northern half of Sakhalin Island from Russia for 15 points.


Subsection B: China and Mongolia

a) The provinces of Hebei, Tianjin, and Shandong are to be ceded to Imperial China.

b) All of Outer Mongolia is to be ceded to Imperial China.

c) Russia shall return Sinkiang to Imperial China.


Subsection C: The issue of Indochina has been worked out separately through the Treaty of Phnom Penh.


Section 5: Miscellaneous

Subsection A: Protection of Minorities:

a) All Balkan states (including the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires) must sign a treaty protecting the rights of minorities within their borders. This treaty will include the promise not to commit acts of state terror, deprive people unlawfully of their land, conduct persecution on religious or ethnic grounds, conduct forced deportations, etc.
i. The relocation of the Greek population of Salonika shall be an exception specifically noted in this treaty.

Subsection B: All standards and military symbols taken in battle are to be returned to their respective countries.
i. The Kingdom of Greece, the former nation of Serbia, the Ottoman Empire, the Kingdom of Rumania, and the Empire of Japan are to be exceptions, in that they must return all standards/symbols but no nation is required to return their standards to them (ooc: punishment for the breaking of internationally recognized treaties).

OOC: Concerning Lebanon’s borders, at present Lebanon is composed of Mount Lebanon, Beirut, and probably a fair bit of the Beqaa valley (pretty much the Beirut Hex on the WIF map). Tripoli, Nabatiye, and Sidon are still part of (French) Syria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governorates_of_Lebanon

The Lebanonese Christian community is also twice as big as it was historically as this time around the French liberated (seized) it before the Ottomans could launch a war of extermination against the Marionites (in RL WWI the Ottomans killed half the population in an artificial famine).

*Fires up the map-o-matic*

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/lazyjim/E20-1914Post-treaty.png

*Bing* 'Mmmm toasty!'

Tell me if I've got anything wrong.

I'm going to do a zoomed in map of Europe, like I did for divided China.

Tell me if I've got anyhting wrong.

OOC: Austria Hungry still controls Czechoslovakia and Transylvania. Albania controls Kosovo. Germany is getting French Equatorial Africa (French Equatorial Africa is the French Congo, Niger is part of French West Africa) and owns Spanish Sao Tome and the Cameroons. Also, Basra is not in Britain’s sphere of influence, it is a neutral independent state (so it should not be shaded pink).

Fixed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/lazyjim/E20-1914Post-treaty.png

The Greek delegate informs the other nations, that it cannot, for the sake of the inhabitants of Corfu and Thessaloniki, agree to this proposal, and begs the other nations to accept Greece's very generous offer, which doesn't include the transfer of Corfu and Thessaloniki. Furthermore, Greece invites international observers to hold referendums in Corfu and Thessaloniki, to see which country they wish to be part of.
(Anything which gives Corfu and Thessaloniki away would be found most unrealistic and unreasonable to myself, and would take all fun out the game for me, being the second crushing defeat, and I'd probably leave for a bit I'm afraid. I have offered Bulgaria 20 points to drop this, and offered Albania many free ships from my navy)

(Anything which gives Corfu and Thessaloniki away would be found most unrealistic)

OOC: I am ruling in place of GB that it is indeed realistic for Corfu and Thessaloniki to be taken from Greece. Albania will look to Germany and Bulgaria for input on Greece's latest offer, but it should be assumed that Albania is for rejecting it.

OOC: One small note on the map:

South Africa is one unified entity. Your map shows the Transvaal and Orange Free state as seperate entities. But at least you got Walvis Bay right :D

[OOC- On the map.... Finland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania are all free and independent nations. Ergo, they shouldn't be colored the pink of the Russian Empire. Gray appears to be neutral nations.

Oh, and Svalbard is controlled by Norway, not Russia. You've got it colored in for Russia. I suppose this means Norway gets a non-gray color! Yay!

EDIT^: And I don't think Denmark controls Indonesia. It's got Iceland and Greenland, not a bunch of islands in the Pacific. Maybe you're thinking of the Netherlands?]

OOC: AH is as it is pre-war plus Serbia, Bulgaria has north Dobruja, so Rumania has no sea access

Bismarck Archipliageo is now British

OOC: Also that island left of the Philippines is not part of the Netherlands, but the Philippines. Portugal or the Netherlands is going to need to change it's color, but they are close similar and people might not know that East Timor is owned by the Portuguese. Ethiopia is a Italian colony along with Italian Somaililand.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Italian_Somaliland.png

Ethiopia is Italian, as is French Dijbrouti or whatever its spelling. Rhodes is mine... Madagascar should have some sort of diagnal lines alternating between blue and orange, as it is a French-Italian Codominum. Don't forget Italian East Africa. Infact, the majority of The African Horn is Italian and you got it alllllll wrong.

OOC: Can we move this discussion to the OOC thread or better yet, to a map thread where we can have possessions and a map and we can discuss changes?

And Antarctica should be colored pink to :)

I updated it! And Antarctica will not be colored pink, asnext to no one recognizes British control of it.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5127/e20postww1id3.png

Am I the only person who keeps seeing the same thing?

Am I the only person who keeps seeing the same thing?

OOC: No. Also, Basra is not British (nor is it a British client state), it is neutral (thus it should be grey), and Spanish Equatorial Africa (the little orange square) was "sold" to Germany years ago.

OOC: Can we move this discussion to the OOC thread or better yet, to a map thread where we can have possessions and a map and we can discuss changes?

Seconded, this is the Peace Talks Thread, and while we are on that subject, will every nation taking part in the war please post if their delegations find the Treaty of Arlington acceptable. Thank you.

The Third Republic of France finds the Treaty of Arlington acceptable, and President Clemenceau shall sign the treaty.

Prime Minster Cort van der Linden applauds the nations of the world for coming in a civilized manor and making peace. He is grateful that this senseless war will come to an end and fully supports the treaty. Also he tells England that he will send someone to attend the conference about the Laws of the Sea.

Italy shall sign the agreement.

Bulgaria Finds the treaty acceptable. However if the Greeks do not sign we will have to delay withdrawl from Greece untill all hostile units are pacified and Greece is in full compliance with the treaty.

We reserve the right to call upon the help of our allies to impose a full naval blockade on Crete until such time, hopefully the Greek shall see the light before any actual fighting is needed.

OOC - GB said the game is on hold until he gets back on monday, apart from the Peace talks, so we might as well play it out until then.

IC -

Despite Bulgaria's obvious war-mongering statements, the Greek delegate kept a stiff upper lip, a trait which he had gained from his British relatives, for this was no ordinary delegate.
"My fellow gentlemen, we came here to talk of peace, yet all the Kingdom of Bulgaria wishes for is war. He makes no concessions in the name of peace, no matter how generous the offer is from Greece.

"Perhaps it is then best to reveal who I truly am, for I am no mere delegate of the Hellenes. I am Prince George of Greece and Denmark, brother of the late Prince Constantine, and son of King George I of the Hellenes. My brother gave his life in defence of Thessaloniki, to protect it from foreign aggression, as did over one hundred thousand other Greeks, who were willing to lay down their lives to protect Greece. They are Greeks I can no longer help, but there are still many I can help. My father has not recovered from the death of his son, and his currently gravely ill in a Cretan hospital and suffering greatly with depression. I hope that if I can bring even the slightest bit of good news back with me, that this will help my father. This is the same man who brought peace to the Balkans only a few years ago, by surrendering the Armed Forces of Greece. If I can tell him that I have saved the populations of Corfu and Thessaloniki, then perhaps I can save him from his depression, as he blames himself for all of this. My brother gave his life to defend Thessaloniki, the 'Symprotevousa' of Greece, for the people there, just like the people in Corfu, are Greek, and have no loyalty towards any other land, and it would be a travesty of justice should they go to any other country.

"You have made a provision in your so called peace treaty for the citizens of Thessaloniki, stating that they are the only people that are to be the victims of a forced deportation. Are they second class citizens? The people my brother has given my life for, and the people I have lived amongst, and the people my father rules over, are they second class citizens, not worthy of the respect that the citizens of other nations receive?

"Albania is a nearly homogeneous country, and Corfu is Greek, and that is a matter that cannot be denied, and to say otherwise would be a fallacy, although a must apologise for any previous insults, which were said in the heat of the moment, although I am sure you can understand that tempers are easily frayed at this moment in time, especially given my current predicament. Sazan Island was my way of apologising to the Albanian delegate, and I hope he can understand the need for an amicable agreement to this treaty, for the Balkans has become a most unpleasant warzone, with its second major war in less than a decade. I am sure many of you would see the dangers in giving a island populated almost entirely with ethnic Greeks, to a nation populated almost entirely with ethnic Albanians. I suggest it would be better to let Corfu remain Greek, and instand monetary compensation can be agreed upon. The same statement is to be applied to Thessaloniki, and monetary compensation will be available to both Macedonia and Bulgaria.

"The delegate from the United States proposed that Greece keep its prewar borders, and even later suggestions agreed to by the Norwegian and British delegates did not include the transfer of Corfu and Thessaloniki. Who else would speak for Greece, and ensure a lasting peace in the Balkans?"



OOC - By the way, the Prince is half Danish and half Russian, making the statement made by the Austrian Emperor look even more crazy ;)
Also, may I suggest Prince Kyril of Bulgaria to become King of Macedonia, if it does become a Kingdom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Kyril_of_Bulgaria

The Netherlands denounces the actions of the Bulgarian government. Prime Minster Cort van der Linden tells the Bulgarians to stand down or the peace will be cut short. Every country knows that this war has dragged on long enough. In addition Prime Minster Cort van der Linden tells the allies of Bulgaria to stop the blockade Crete before treaty is thrown away and the war starts again. No more people shall die in these needless battles for only land.

OOC - I didn't realise the Dutch were at the talks, but I'm not complaining ;)

Acknowledging the Dutchman's comments, the Prince again stood to speak,
"I have faith in Germany, and the Dual Monarchy, and most of all in Turkey, that they will not resort to further military action, and will act in the name of peace, for Greece has already agreed to many generous concessions, and has agreed to build merchant vessels for free in return for peace, an action which will put much strain on Greece's already damaged economy, which is in fragile state after Bulgarian troops ransacked Athen's industrial centres. However, the Greek people are worth far more than money to myself, and that is why I offer Albania, and Bulgaria money, to cease their claims on Greek homes.

"I apologise for holding up this peace talks with my requests, but if I don't speak up for Greece, and the Greeks, then I fear no-one will."

After the Greek delegate finished, the Young Bulgarian Prince stood up with Applause,

*CLAP* *CLAP* *CLAP*

"Bravo! Bravo! Such dramatic act surely deserves an award!", in a clear mocking tone, "You are Indeed no mere delegate, You are a pompous one; Let me introduce myself; I am Prince Kyril of Preslave and over there are the Emperors of Japan and the Dual Monarchy and over there is Prince Louis of Battenburg.

So if you are looking for some sort of tribute to your status you should try some where else." adds the Bulgarian with a condescending tone.

"There is a Treaty set" starts now with a more serious manner, "either you sign it and end the war, or either you don't. That is what is only left for you to do".

"And Menher Von Der Linden, should you decide to denounce someone be sure not to bark up the wrong tree; We have stated Bulgaria is willing to sign the treaty and that Greece should do so too -or else- We do not take kindly to fallacious accusations"

ooc: the amount of Rumania that AHE controls (Trans) is much larger than shown in the map though thats just a minor nit-pick, otherwise great job!

EDIT: for a more specific map of AHE controlled Transylvannia see here (http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/aencmed/targets/maps/mhi/T028717A.gif)

IC:
The Austro-Hungarian Empire finds the treaty acceptable and promptly turns over Polish Galicia (which the AHE defines as everything west of Lemburg, including the city) to Polish athorities.

Meanwhile Greece is reminded that by not signing the peace treaty, Greece remains at war with the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

The Japanese announce their intent to sign the treaty.

Japan also urges Greece to sign the treaty, as they have no other supporters (save for the Dutch) and further bloodshed by Greek stubborness is unwanted

"But Sir what is the point of this blockade? To force the Greeks into a treaty? That is not the way to do. If that is the point, then surely something is wrong with your government Prince Kyril." Prime Minster Cort van der Linden said in a cool manner, but loud enough because him, and another member of his staff, were in the back.

"If you truly want peace, then call of the blockade. That will show everyone that Bulgaria no longer wants to fight. Enough young men have died." Prime Minster Cort van der Linden sat back down.

"But Sir what is the point of this blockade? To force the Greeks into a treaty? That is not the way to do. If that is the point, then surely something is wrong with your government Prince Kyril." Prime Minster Cort van der Linden said in a cool manner, but loud enough because him, and another member of his staff, were in the back.

"If you truly want peace, then call of the blockade. That will show everyone that Bulgaria no longer wants to fight. Enough young men have died." Prime Minster Cort van der Linden sat back down.

"Greece has shown they do not wish peace by refusing the generous terms given by the Bulgarians"

"But Sir what is the point of this blockade? To force the Greeks into a treaty? That is not the way to do. If that is the point, then surely something is wrong with your government Prince Kyril." Prime Minster Cort van der Linden said in a cool manner, but loud enough because him, and another member of his staff, were in the back.

"If you truly want peace, then call of the blockade. That will show everyone that Bulgaria no longer wants to fight. Enough young men have died." Prime Minster Cort van der Linden sat back down.

"You clearly misunderstand, a blockade will only be enforced if they refuse to sign the treaty, indicating that they wish to fight."

OOC: There is currently no blockade as there is still a ceasefire… And why are the Dutch here and making proposals?! They were not involved in the war nor are they a moderating nation. Now they do have an interest in the Laws of the Seas, but that is a separate conference.

IC: Prime Minster Linden is informed that he is at the conference only as a neutral observer, not as a moderator, and should remain silent at official functions.

Meanwhile the Dutch Parliament begins asking some hard questions about why the Prime Minister has gone off to Arlington and why he seems to be taking the side of the “arrogant and impossible” Greeks. At home Newspapers mock him, portraying Linden as literally having skipped off to the conference on a whim and neglecting Dutch interests. Cartoons appear which show him poking Coalition members with a stick “for no real reason.” It quickly becomes clear his questionable actions have irreparably damaged his political career.

OOC: It doesn't really matter, because with universal suffrage for men, Prime Minster Cort van der Linden is out anyways.

Prim Minister Cort van der Linden stays quiet for the rest of the meeting and only hopes for the best.

"Greece has shown they do not wish peace by refusing the generous terms given by the Bulgarians"
"The terms offered by the child Prince are in no way generous."

OOC - I am awaiting input from USA, UK, Norway, and others.

The Ottomans announce their intent to sign the treaty.

Britain insists that Greece agree to the rather generous terms laid out by the Coaltion Forces and reminds Greece that Britain is no longer required to ensure the independance of Greece.

The Austro-Hungarian Navy, previously called back to port when the Austro-Hungarian Empire demobilized is sent to begin military exercises near Greece.

Rumania consents to sign the treaty.

The Danish representatives suggest to the Greecians that the current course of action they are taking only seems to achieve the goal of Alienating members of the International community. It was suggested that perhaps if land is of such importance to the Greece then there would be negotiations to swap land for payment of money, or some material that may provide reperation for the land.

The Representative goes onto a different stream now but same general theme.

"In the past the question over the Duchies of Schleswig and Holstein has indeed caused 2 wars, nothing as large or widespread as the great war but it is in the Spirit of resolving issues through negotiation that we look forward to the future status of the Duchies. As such we offer to purchase from the Germans the Duchies of Schleswig and Holstein. Should their be no resolution or Answer to the Schleswig-Holstein Question(OOC: See Wiki) then there will always be a barrier, a festering sore, if you might, between our nations. Not to mention the citizens of the area with the uncertainty about what could happen. We of course wish that nothing would happen but alas whenever there are unresolved issues then a chance for unpleasant combining of factors may arrise that may lead to an unnecessary war. No one wants this and the only way we can see to finally resolve this issue is to buy the Duchies."

OOC: Initial suggestion is a price of 30 points for the Duchies of Schleswig and Holstein is made but the price is up for negotiation.

Sir Grey blankly stares at the Danish delegate.

"My good sir... We are here to discuss the war, not purchasing land from Germany. Please handle this situation somewhere else."

OOC: C'mon man. Take it to Germany's thread, please.

The French delegation quietly urges the Greeks to sign the treaty, as continued arguing and stalling would not be in the interests of the Greek nation.

Rosen announces that Russia finds the treaty acceptable and will sign it.

Germany finds the treaty acceptable and signs.(And in turn so do the Balts, Poles and Ukrainians).

One minor map issue: according to the Second Anglo-Siamese Accords, Siam gets the Shan State in Burma, or basically the NE corner of Burma (the fist hex on the WiF map). Otherwise, looks perfect.

France again urges the Greeks to sign the treaty, stating that further stalling will only result in even harsher terms for the Greek nation.

Rumania joins France in urging the Greeks to sign the peace treaty.

ooc
somebody (Amestria or Safehaven) send me a link concerning the final approved treaty

Greece is about to have a change in government if the Alliance ceases to recognize the Greek exile government

With the continued stalling of the Greek government in exile on Crete, a new government is set up in Athens backed by Germany, the Baltic states and Poland. The new government quickly signs the treaty and declares the exile government as fugitives and threats to Greece.

The Bulgarian Government welcomes and backs the New More-Stable and Less-Belligerent Greek Government and offers assistance in dealing with the fugitives. However, The Bulgarian Government indicates that it will understand if they would rather handle the matter as a purely internal one.

The New government is congratulated on its prudance assuring that had Greece not sign the treaty (along with the mutual vow of protecting minorities) there would have been dire consequences. Thankfully this has been averted.

Rumania, at this time, does not recognise the new Greek government as legite, but nor is there any particular objection. Again, Ferdinand urges the Greek delegation to sign the treaty.

Although the Greek losses in the Treaty of Arlington are indeed unfortunate, and the United States had initially pushed for much more lenient terms, at this stage in events the will of the majority has spoken.

Washington is unfortunately unwilling to hold up the finishing of proceedings here over this issue and as such urges the Greeks to sign the treaty.

Beveridge warmly compliments the other delgates for managing to find common ground on so many issues and bring an end to this terrible war

(OOC - I'm ignoring the last couple of posts with the exception of Cylea's as GB said we had until Monday to finish the Peace Talks.)

IC -

Knowing there was nothing he could anymore, Prince George walked out of the conference in disgust, leaving his aide to sign in his place.

Regardless, the Head of State, ie King George, was backing the Gov't stance, therefore another Gov't could not be set up, unless it was Republican, and as the current Gov't was the most likely to favour Republicanism (only in RL when Constantine disagreed with Venizelos, prompting the National Schism), and there are no Republican elements within Greece at this moment. Do not think I have not thoroughly planned this.

Ferdinand quietly asks the Colaition delegates when the Rumanian Army will be allowed to return to their native soil.

Regardless, the Head of State, ie King George, was backing the Gov't stance, therefore another Gov't could not be set up, unless it was Republican, and as the current Gov't was the most likely to favour Republicanism (only in RL when Constantine disagreed with Venizelos, prompting the National Schism), and there are no Republican elements within Greece at this moment. Do not think I have not thoroughly planned this.

OOC: puppet governments don't need a lot of support, just another government to prop them up

Along with the fact that support doesn't mean popularity. The king that has dragged greece into 2 unpopular and losing wars has not been good for his popularity. In the event you wish to argue this point, we can continue it in chatzy or the main thread

So with Greece signing it, does that mean that this is over?

The majority of the Tweede Kamer acknowledges the new Greek government.

ooc
its realistic that Greece would resist signing the treaty, however, its also realistic that the Coalition and Alliance would both ignore its wishes and sign it over the prostrate corpse of Greece and the Alliance would mildly protest the Coalition setting up a puppet government to sign the treaty, and for the Alliance to simply no longer recognize the exile government and recognize the puppet government to get peace signed.

if this occurs, Greece becomes an NPC and Whittlefield will need a new country.

Concerning other issues:
1. Need a brave volunteer to adjust the borders to reflect new reality for WIF Europe and WIF Asia maps. Send me a link when you do.
2. "The Ukraine (ooc defined as Ukraine territory on the WIF map west of the Dneister River and not including Sevastopol) shall be granted autonomy within the Russian Empire; being allowed its own Parliament, local laws, and defense forces."

This should read Dneiper River, as the Dniester river is the border between Moldovia and Ukraine in 1939 RL

3. In theory Antarctica should be colored pink, although the Americans should be complaining about now, as should others.

4. A groundswell of significant (to the point where a sizeable majority will support a change in government type to more extreme forms) Public Dissatisfaction over the treaty will exist in Japan, Greece, Rumania, Italy (which got little and spent a lot of blood for one island), Germany (demilitarizing the Rhine, losing Alsace Lorraine, letting the Americans push Germany around), Russia (lost a lot of land), and in of course occupied Serbia and the Ukrainians didn't get all they wanted either.

5. Asians note with interest the Japanese and Siamese defeat of the French and Italians, and projection of Asian power into Africa and even the Atlantic. This will stir up nationalism in India, Burma, China, and oddly enough, in Africa eventually.

6. Arabs are displeased over Western control over Arab lands in Syria, Palestine etc, although the people of Iraq are reasonably happy.

but those problems of course are all for the future.

OOC - In our conversation on chatzy, Safehaven2 told me that all of the stuff regarding a puppet gov't was irrelevant, as I'd agreed to the talks.

I am hoping that's the case as I do want to play as Greece, and I just bought the book "The Balkans (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Balkans-Universal-History-Mark-Mazower/dp/1842125443/sr=8-8/qid=1164574567/ref=sr_1_8/026-1011077-7654815?ie=UTF8&s=books)", by Mark Mazower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Mazower), although I got it for under half the Amazon price.

ooc
3. In theory Antarctica should be colored pink, although the Americans should be complaining about now, as should others.


OOC: US has in fact complained on the IC events thread and will continue to do so.

I can only assume that American public opinion is simply pleased that the war is over and lots of loans can be honored?

This should read Dneiper River, as the Dniester river is the border between Moldovia and Ukraine in 1939 RL

OOC: Corrected.

(OOC - I'm ignoring the last couple of posts with the exception of Cylea's as GB said we had until Monday to finish the Peace Talks.)

OOC - In our conversation on chatzy, Safehaven2 told me that all of the stuff regarding a puppet gov't was irrelevant, as I'd agreed to the talks.

OOC: You can't just ignore past IC events/actions. So I shall make sense of everything that has occurred.

With the continued stalling of the Greek government in exile on Crete, a new government is set up in Athens backed by Germany, the Baltic states and Poland. The new government quickly signs the treaty and declares the exile government as fugitives and threats to Greece.

Knowing there was nothing he could anymore, Prince George walked out of the conference in disgust, leaving his aide to sign in his place.

OOC: Now making sense of what occurred, the Coalition set up a puppet government in Athens that signed a copy of the treaty and declared the exiled government to be fugitives. However, before that government could gain recognition from the Allied powers, the exile government representatives at the conference signed. Thus the Greek puppet government was dropped almost as soon as it was set up.

Greece will likely have some issues concerning collaborators now, albeit very few in number (some of whom will undoubtedly try to flee Greece and seek asylum in Coalition countries).

And so the great war comes to an end. Good.